PNC Financial Services Group Inc (PNC) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the PNC Financial Services Group earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加 PNC 金融服務集團收益電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to your host, Bryan Gill. Thank you, Bryan. You may begin.

現在我很高興將電話轉給主持人布萊恩吉爾 (Bryan Gill)。謝謝你，布萊恩。你可以開始了。

Well, good morning, and welcome to today's conference call for the PNC Financial Services Group. I am Bryan Gill, the Director of Investor Relations for PNC and participating on this call are PNC's Chairman and CEO, Bill Demchak; and Rob Reilly, Executive Vice President and CFO.

早安，歡迎參加今天的 PNC 金融服務集團電話會議。我是 PNC 投資者關係總監 Bryan Gill，參加本次電話會議的還有 PNC 董事長兼執行長 Bill Demchak 和執行副總裁兼財務長 Rob Reilly。

Today's presentation contains forward-looking information. Cautionary statements about this information as well as reconciliations of non-GAAP measures are included in today's earnings release materials as well as our SEC filings and other investor materials. These are all available on our corporate website, pnc.com, under Investor Relations. These statements speak only as of October 15, 2025, and PNC undertakes no obligation to update them.

今天的演示包含前瞻性資訊。有關此資訊的警告性聲明以及非公認會計準則指標的調節均包含在今天的收益發布資料以及我們的美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 文件和其他投資者資料中。這些資訊均可在我們的公司網站 pnc.com 的「投資者關係」欄位找到。這些聲明僅截至 2025 年 10 月 15 日有效，PNC 不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Bill.

現在我想把電話轉給比爾。

Thank you, Bryan, and good morning, everyone. As you've seen, we had an excellent quarter, building on a great year so far. Our results for the third quarter reflect an impressive performance across the entire franchise. We reported net income of $1.8 billion or $4.35 per share. We grew customers, loans and deposits and continue to deepen relationships across our businesses and geographic footprint with positive trends in our legacy and fast-growing expansion markets.

謝謝你，布萊恩，大家早安。如您所見，我們本季表現優異，今年迄今的表現十分出色。我們第三季的業績反映了整個特許經營的出色表現。我們報告的淨收入為 18 億美元，即每股 4.35 美元。我們增加了客戶、貸款和存款，並繼續深化我們業務和地理覆蓋範圍內的關係，我們的傳統市場和快速成長的擴張市場呈現正面趨勢。

Our NII growth trajectory continued as expected, coupled with very strong fee growth and well-controlled expenses. And as a result, we delivered record revenue and PPNR as well as another quarter of positive operating leverage. Credit quality continues to remain strong with a net charge-off ratio of only 22 basis points. While there are obvious potential downside risks to the US economy, our customers remain on solid footing.

我們的 NII 成長軌跡延續了預期，同時費用成長非常強勁，支出得到良好控制。結果，我們實現了創紀錄的收入和 PPNR，以及另一個季度的正營運槓桿。信貸品質持續保持強勁，淨沖銷率僅為 22 個基點。儘管美國經濟有明顯的潛在下行風險，但我們的客戶仍然站穩腳步。

From a consumer perspective, spending has been remarkably resilient across all segments and corporate clients are expressing cautious optimism about their business outlook. Ultimately, this is driving a sound economy. Looking at our business lines, we continue to execute on our strategic priorities.

從消費者的角度來看，各領域的支出都展現了顯著的彈性，企業客戶對其業務前景表達了謹慎樂觀的態度。最終，這將推動經濟的穩健發展。縱觀我們的業務線，我們繼續執行我們的策略重點。

In retail banking, consumer DDAs grew 2% year-over-year, including 6% growth in the Southwest, driven by strength across our branch and digital channels. Customer activity in the quarter remained robust with record debit card transactions and credit card spend as well as record levels of investment assets in PNC Wealth Management, our newly rebranded brokerage business.

在零售銀行業務方面，消費者 DDA 年成長 2%，其中西南地區成長 6%，這得益於我們分行和數位管道的強勁成長。本季的客戶活動依然強勁，金融卡交易和信用卡消費均創歷史新高，而且我們新更名的經紀業務 PNC 財富管理的投資資產水平也創歷史新高。

We continue to invest in our future growth. And by the end of the year, we will have opened more than 25 new branches. And importantly, we remain on track to complete our 200-plus branch builds by the end of 2029. In C&IB, we saw record noninterest income driven by broad-based performance across fee income categories and pipelines remain strong.

我們將繼續投資未來的發展。到今年年底，我們將開設超過 25 家新分行。重要的是，我們仍有望在 2029 年底前完成 200 多個分支的建造。在工商及投資銀行領域，我們看到非利息收入創下紀錄，這得益於各費用收入類別和管道的廣泛表現，並且保持強勁。

Within our asset management business, we continue to see client growth and positive net flows from both legacy and expansion markets with the expansion markets growing at a faster pace. Before I pass it over to Rob, I wanted to say how excited we are about the recent announcement to acquire FirstBank.

在我們的資產管理業務中，我們繼續看到來自傳統市場和擴張市場的客戶成長和正淨流量，並且擴張市場的成長速度更快。在將其交給 Rob 之前，我想說一下我們對最近宣布收購 FirstBank 感到非常興奮。

Kevin Classen and his team have built a premier bank in the Colorado region with a focus on strong customer service and an enviable branch network. Upon closing, this deal will propel PNC to the number one market share position in retail deposits in branches in Denver. It will also more than triple our branch footprint in Colorado while adding additional presence in Arizona. And finally, as always, I'd like to thank our employees for everything they do for our company.

Kevin Classen 和他的團隊在科羅拉多地區建立了一家頂級銀行，專注於強大的客戶服務和令人羨慕的分行網絡。交易完成後，該交易將推動 PNC 在丹佛分行零售存款市場中佔據第一的份額。它還將使我們在科羅拉多州的分支機構數量增加兩倍以上，同時增加在亞利桑那州的分支機構。最後，一如既往，我要感謝我們的員工為公司所做的一切。

With that, Rob will take you through the quarter. Rob?

接下來，Rob 將帶您回顧本季。搶？

Thanks, Bill, and good morning, everyone. Our balance sheet is on slide 4 and is presented on an average basis. For the linked quarter, loans of $326 billion grew $3 billion or 1% Investment securities of $144 billion increased $3 billion or 2%. And our cash balance at the Federal Reserve was $34 billion, an increase of $3 billion. Deposit balances were up $9 billion or 2% and averaged $432 billion and borrowings increased $1 billion to $66 billion. AOCI at September 30 improved $605 million or 13% compared with the prior quarter and was negative $4.1 billion.

謝謝，比爾，大家早安。我們的資產負債表在投影片 4 上，以平均值呈現。就第一季而言，3,260 億美元的貸款增加了 30 億美元，即 1%；1,440 億美元的投資證券增加了 30 億美元，即 2%。我們在聯準會的現金餘額為 340 億美元，增加了 30 億美元。存款餘額增加 90 億美元，增幅 2%，平均達 4,320 億美元；借款增加 10 億美元，達到 660 億美元。截至 9 月 30 日，AOCI 與上一季相比增加了 6.05 億美元，即 13%，為負 41 億美元。

Our tangible book value of $107.84 per common share increased 4% linked quarter and 11% compared to the same period a year ago. We remain well capitalized with an estimated CET1 ratio of 10.6% and an estimated CET1 ratio inclusive of AOCI of 9.7% at quarter end. We continue to be well positioned with capital flexibility. During the quarter, we returned $1 billion of capital to shareholders, which included $679 million in common dividends and $331 million of share repurchases. And we expect fourth quarter share repurchases to continue to be in the range of $300 million and $400 million.

我們的有形帳面價值為每股 107.84 美元，季增 4%，比去年同期成長 11%。我們的資本充足率仍然充足，季度末的 CET1 比率估計為 10.6%，包含 AOCI 的 CET1 比率估計為 9.7%。我們繼續保持良好的資本彈性。本季度，我們向股東返還了 10 億美元的資本，其中包括 6.79 億美元的普通股股息和 3.31 億美元的股票回購。我們預計第四季股票回購額將持續維持在 3 億美元至 4 億美元之間。

Slide 5 shows our loans in more detail. During the third quarter, we delivered solid loan growth. Balances averaged $326 billion, an increase of $3 billion or 1% compared to the second quarter. Average commercial loans increased $3.4 billion or 2%, driven by growth in the C&I portfolio, partially offset by a decline in commercial real estate loans of $1 billion. Growth in C&I was driven by strong new production, particularly in corporate banking and business credit.

幻燈片 5 更詳細地展示了我們的貸款。第三季度，我們的貸款實現了穩健成長。平均餘額為 3,260 億美元，與第二季相比增加 30 億美元，增幅為 1%。平均商業貸款增加了 34 億美元，即 2%，這主要得益於 C&I 投資組合的成長，但商業房地產貸款減少了 10 億美元，部分抵消了這一增長。工商業務的成長受到強勁的新產品的推動，尤其是企業銀行業務和商業信貸業務。

And during the third quarter, utilization remained slightly above 50%. Commercial real estate balances declined $1 billion or 3% as we continue to reduce certain exposures. Consumer loans were stable as growth in auto and credit card balances was offset by a decline in residential real estate loans. The total loan yield of 5.76% increased 6 basis points compared with the second quarter.

第三季度，利用率仍略高於50%。由於我們繼續減少某些風險敞口，商業房地產餘額下降了 10 億美元，即 3%。消費貸款保持穩定，因為汽車和信用卡餘額的增長被住宅房地產貸款的下降所抵消。總貸款收益率5.76%，較第二季上升6個基點。

Slide 6 details our investment securities and swap portfolios. During the third quarter, average investment securities increased approximately $3 billion or 2%, driven by purchasing activity late in the previous quarter. Our securities yield was 3.36%, an increase of 10 basis points. And as of September 30, our duration was 3.4 years.

投影片 6 詳細介紹了我們的投資證券和掉期投資組合。第三季度，受上一季末購買活動的推動，平均投資證券增加了約 30 億美元，增幅為 2%。我們的證券收益率為3.36%，增加了10個基點。截至 9 月 30 日，我們的期限為 3.4 年。

Regarding our swaps, active received fixed rate swaps totaled $45 billion on September 30 with a receive rate of 3.64%. And forward starting swaps were $9 billion with a received rate of 4.11%. Importantly, our securities portfolio is well positioned for a steepening yield curve that will support substantial NII growth in 2026.

關於我們的掉期交易，9 月 30 日，活躍收到的固定利率掉期總額為 450 億美元，收到利率為 3.64%。遠期掉期交易金額為 90 億美元，利率為 4.11%。重要的是，我們的證券投資組合已做好充分準備，以應對陡峭的殖利率曲線，這將支持 2026 年 NII 的大幅成長。

Slide 7 covers our deposit balances in more detail. Average deposits increased $9 billion or 2% during the quarter, driven by particularly strong growth in commercial interest-bearing deposits, which were up 7%. Noninterest-bearing balances of $93 billion were stable and were 21% of total deposits. Total commercial deposits grew approximately $9 billion or 5% linked quarter. The growth was due in part to seasonality, but also reflective of both new and expanded client relationships.

投影片 7 更詳細地介紹了我們的存款餘額。本季平均存款增加了 90 億美元，即 2%，這主要得益於商業計息存款的強勁增長，商業計息存款增長了 7%。930 億美元的無息餘額保持穩定，佔總存款的 21%。商業存款總額較上季增加約 90 億美元，增幅為 5%。成長部分歸因於季節性因素，但也反映了新客戶關係和擴大的客戶關係。

Our total rate paid on interest-bearing deposits increased 8 basis points to 2.32% in the third quarter, reflecting the outsized growth in interest-bearing deposits and the resulting change in our deposit mix, along with slightly higher consumer rates paid. Going forward, we anticipate our rate paid on deposits will decline in the fourth quarter because of the full quarter impact of the September Fed rate cut and our expectation for additional cuts in October and December.

第三季度，我們支付的計息存款總利率增加了 8 個基點，達到 2.32%，這反映了計息存款的大幅增長以及由此導致的存款結構變化，同時支付的消費者利率也略有上升。展望未來，我們預計第四季度的存款利率將會下降，因為聯準會 9 月降息對整個季度產生了影響，我們預計 10 月和 12 月還會進一步降息。

Turning to slide 8. We highlight our income statement trends. Comparing the third quarter to the second quarter, total revenue was a record $5.9 billion and was up $254 million or 4%. And noninterest expense of $3.5 billion increased $78 million or 2%, which allowed us to deliver more than 200 basis points of positive operating leverage and record PPNR of $2.5 billion. Provision was $167 million and declined $87 million compared to the second quarter.

翻到幻燈片 8。我們重點介紹我們的損益表趨勢。與第二季相比，第三季總營收達到創紀錄的 59 億美元，成長 2.54 億美元，成長 4%。35 億美元的非利息支出增加了 7,800 萬美元，即 2%，這使我們能夠實現超過 200 個基點的正營運槓桿，並創下 25 億美元的 PPNR 記錄。撥備為 1.67 億美元，與第二季相比減少了 8,700 萬美元。

Our effective tax rate was 20.3%, and third quarter net income was $1.8 billion or $4.35 per diluted share. In the first nine months of the year compared to the same time last year, we've demonstrated strong momentum across our franchise. Total revenue increased $1 billion or 7%, driven by record net interest income and record fee income. Noninterest expense increased $213 million or 2%, reflecting increased business activity as well as continued investments in technology and branches. And net income grew $638 million, resulting in diluted EPS growth of 17%.

我們的有效稅率為 20.3%，第三季淨收入為 18 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 4.35 美元。與去年同期相比，今年前九個月我們的整個特許經營業務都表現出強勁的發展勢頭。總收入增加了 10 億美元，即 7%，這得益於創紀錄的淨利息收入和創紀錄的費用收入。非利息支出增加了 2.13 億美元，即 2%，反映了業務活動的增加以及對技術和分支機構的持續投資。淨收入成長 6.38 億美元，導致稀釋每股收益成長 17%。

Turning to slide 9. We detail our revenue trends. Third quarter revenue increased $254 million or 4% compared to the prior quarter. Net interest income of $3.6 billion increased $93 million or 3%. The growth reflected the continued benefit of fixed rate asset repricing, loan growth and one additional day in the quarter. And our net interest margin was 2.79%, a decline of 1 basis point, reflecting the outsized commercial deposit growth I previously mentioned.

翻到第 9 張投影片。我們詳細說明了我們的收入趨勢。第三季營收與上一季相比增加了 2.54 億美元，增幅為 4%。淨利息收入 36 億美元，增加 9,300 萬美元，即 3%。這一增長反映了固定利率資產重新定價、貸款成長以及本季額外一天的持續效益。我們的淨利差為2.79%，下降了1個基點，反映了我之前提到的商業存款的超額成長。

Importantly, our expectation is for NIM to continue to grow going forward, and we still expect to exceed 3% during 2026. Noninterest income of $2.3 billion increased $161 million or 8%. Inside of that, fee income increased $175 million or 9% linked quarter, reflecting broad-based growth across categories. Looking at the details.

重要的是，我們預計 NIM 未來將繼續成長，並且我們仍預計 2026 年將超過 3%。非利息收入 23 億美元，增加 1.61 億美元，增幅 8%。其中，費用收入較上季增加 1.75 億美元，增幅 9%，反映出各類別的廣泛成長。看看細節。

Asset management and brokerage income increased $13 million or 3%, driven by higher equity markets and included positive net flows. Capital Markets and Advisory revenue increased $111 million or 35%, driven by an increase in M&A advisory activity as well as higher underwriting and loan syndication revenue.

受股票市場走高推動，資產管理和經紀收入增加了 1,300 萬美元，即 3%，並包括正淨流量。資本市場和諮詢收入增加了 1.11 億美元，即 35%，這得益於併購諮詢活動的增加以及承銷和銀團貸款收入的增加。

Card and cash management revenue was stable as seasonally higher credit and debit card activity was offset by lower merchant services. Lending and deposit services revenue increased $18 million or 6% due to increased activity and client growth. Mortgage revenue increased $33 million or 26%, reflecting elevated MSR hedging activity and higher residential mortgage production.

由於季節性信用卡和金融卡活動增加被商家服務減少所抵消，因此卡片和現金管理收入保持穩定。由於活動增加和客戶成長，貸款和存款服務收入增加了 1800 萬美元，即 6%。抵押貸款收入增加了 3,300 萬美元，即 26%，反映出 MSR 對沖活動的增加和住宅抵押貸款產量的增加。

And other noninterest income of $198 million included negative Visa derivative fair value adjustments of $35 million, primarily related to Visa's September announcement of a litigation escrow funding. Notably, we continue to see strong momentum across our lines of business and throughout our markets. And year-to-date, noninterest income of $6.3 billion grew $337 million or 6% compared to the same period last year.

其他 1.98 億美元的非利息收入包括 3,500 萬美元的負 Visa 衍生性商品公允價值調整，主要與 Visa 9 月宣布的訴訟託管資金有關。值得注意的是，我們的業務線和整個市場持續保持強勁勢頭。今年迄今，非利息收入為 63 億美元，與去年同期相比成長 3.37 億美元，增幅為 6%。

Turning to slide 10. Our third quarter expenses were up $78 million or 2% linked quarter. The growth was largely in personnel costs, which increased $81 million or 4% and included higher variable compensation related to increased business activity. Equipment expense increased $22 million or 6%, reflecting higher depreciation related to investments in technology and branches.

翻到第 10 張投影片。我們第三季的支出較上季增加了 7,800 萬美元，即 2%。成長主要來自人事成本，增加了 8,100 萬美元，即 4%，其中包括與業務活動增加相關的更高的浮動薪酬。設備費用增加了 2,200 萬美元，即 6%，反映了與技術和分支機構投資相關的折舊增加。

Importantly, all other categories declined or remained stable. Year-to-date, noninterest expense increased by $213 million or 2%. And as we previously stated, we have a goal to reduce costs by $350 million in 2025 through our continuous improvement program, and we're on track to achieve that goal. As you know, this program funds a significant portion of our ongoing business and technology investments.

重要的是，所有其他類別均下降或保持穩定。年初至今，非利息支出增加了 2.13 億美元，或 2%。正如我們之前所說，我們的目標是透過持續改進計劃在 2025 年將成本降低 3.5 億美元，而且我們正在按計劃實現這一目標。如您所知，該計劃為我們正在進行的業務和技術投資提供了很大一部分資金。

Our credit metrics are presented on slide 11. Overall credit quality remains strong. Nonperforming loans of $2.1 billion were stable linked quarter. Total delinquencies of $1.2 billion declined $70 million or 5% compared with June 30, reflecting lower commercial and consumer delinquencies. Net loan charge-offs were $179 million, down $19 million and represents a net charge-off ratio of 22 basis points.

我們的信用指標在第 11 張投影片上展示。整體信貸品質依然強勁。21億美元的不良貸款與上季持平。總拖欠金額為 12 億美元，與 6 月 30 日相比減少了 7,000 萬美元，降幅為 5%，反映出商業和消費者拖欠金額的下降。淨貸款沖銷額為 1.79 億美元，減少 1,900 萬美元，淨沖銷率為 22 個基點。

Provision was $167 million, resulting in a slight release of loan reserves, primarily due to an improved outlook for our CRE portfolio, reflecting both lower loss rates and continued runoff. At the end of the third quarter, our allowance for credit losses totaled $5.3 billion or 1.61% of total loans. In summary, PNC reported a solid third quarter.

撥備為 1.67 億美元，導致貸款儲備金略有釋放，這主要是由於我們的 CRE 投資組合前景改善，反映了較低的損失率和持續的流失。截至第三季末，我們的信貸損失準備金總額為 53 億美元，佔貸款總額的 1.61%。總體而言，PNC 報告第三季業績穩健。

Regarding our view of the overall economy, we're expecting real GDP growth to be below 2% in 2025 and unemployment to peak above 4.5% in mid-2026. We expect the Fed to cut rates three consecutive times with a 25 basis points decrease at the October, December and January meetings. Looking at the fourth quarter of 2025 compared to the third quarter of 2025, we expect average loans to be stable to up 1%. Net interest income to be up approximately 1.5%.

就我們對整體經濟的看法而言，我們預計 2025 年實際 GDP 成長率將低於 2%，失業率將在 2026 年中期達到 4.5% 以上的峰值。我們預期聯準會將在10月、12月和1月會議上連續三次降息，每次降息25個基點。與 2025 年第三季相比，我們預計 2025 年第四季平均貸款將穩定成長 1%。淨利息收入成長約1.5%。

Fee income to be down approximately 3% due to elevated third quarter capital markets and MSR levels. Other noninterest income to be in the range of $150 million to $200 million. Taking the component pieces of revenue together, we expect total revenue to be stable to down 1%. We expect noninterest expense to be up between 1% and 2%, and we expect fourth quarter net charge-offs to be in the range of $200 million to $225 million.

由於第三季資本市場和 MSR 水準上升，費用收入下降約 3%。其他非利息收入在 1.5 億美元至 2 億美元之間。綜合考慮各部分收入，我們預期總收入將穩定下降 1%。我們預計非利息支出將上漲 1% 至 2%，我們預計第四季淨沖銷額將在 2 億美元至 2.25 億美元之間。

And with that, Bill and I are ready to take your questions.

現在，比爾和我已準備好回答你們的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Scott Siefers, Piper Sandler.

史考特·西佛斯、派珀·桑德勒。

Good Morning everybody. Thank you for taking the question. Rob, I was hoping you could please expand upon your thoughts on the margin performance and outlook. I guess, in particular, hoping you could especially touch on that idea of the third quarter commercial deposit growth, sort of what it might have done to the third quarter margin, then why, what occurred with the third quarter margin, meaning just slight compression isn't necessarily representative of the path you'd expect going forward.

大家早安。感謝您回答這個問題。羅布，我希望你能詳細說明一下你對利潤表現和前景的看法。我想，特別是希望您能特別談談第三季商業存款成長的想法，它可能對第三季的利潤率產生什麼影響，那麼為什麼，第三季的利潤率發生了什麼變化，這意味著輕微的壓縮並不一定代表您預期的未來路徑。

I think you suggested we could still get to like a 3% number at some point in 2026. So maybe sort of the -- what happened with that deposit growth, what effect did it have? And then what are we looking for going forward?

我認為您所說的我們仍然可以在 2026 年的某個時候達到 3% 的數字。那麼也許——存款成長發生了什麼，產生了什麼影響？那我們接下來的期望是什麼呢？

Yes. Sure, Scott. So let's start with the last part there first. We do -- as I mentioned in the comments, we do still expect our NIM to continue to expand and hit the 3% and above sometime during 2026. So no change there in terms of the trajectory. The difference in the quarter was the outsized commercial interest-bearing deposit growth. So we grew $9 billion, which was easily the most that we've ever grown commercial interest-bearing deposits in any quarter, particularly in 2025.

是的。當然，斯科特。那麼讓我們先從最後一部分開始。正如我在評論中提到的那樣，我們仍然預計我們的 NIM 將繼續擴大並在 2026 年的某個時候達到 3% 及以上。因此，就軌跡而言沒有變化。本季的差異在於商業計息存款的大幅成長。因此，我們的存款增加了 90 億美元，這無疑是我們有史以來任何一個季度商業計息存款成長的最高值，尤其是在 2025 年。

And even though we kept our rate paid on commercial interest-bearing deposits flat to actually down a basis point in the quarter, it affected our NIM because of the mix change. Commercial interest-bearing deposits, as you know, are priced higher than consumer. So when you put that into the weighted average, that cost us 4 basis points, 4 or 5 basis points on our NIM that would have otherwise been there had we not grown those deposits.

儘管我們保持商業計息存款利率不變，甚至在本季度下降了一個基點，但由於組合變化，它影響了我們的淨利差。眾所周知，商業有息存款的價格高於消費者存款。因此，當你將其放入加權平均值時，我們的淨利息收益率就會損失 4 個基點、4 個或 5 個基點，如果我們沒有增加這些存款，我們的淨利息收益率就會保持不變。

And I think it's a good question to make sure you understand what's going on there, but it's also a good point -- good for us to point out that NIM is an outcome, not something that we manage to. So this is a good example. Lots of our commercial clients want to put deposits with us. We can do that in an NII accretive way. It cost us a couple of basis points for NIM, and that's a good thing. So going forward, continue to expect NIM to expand. It's just that outsized growth sort of on an apples-to-apples basis reset of the weighted average.

我認為這是一個好問題，可以確保你了解那裡發生了什麼，但這也是一個很好的觀點——我們應該指出 NIM 是一個結果，而不是我們設法實現的東西。這是一個很好的例子。我們的許多商業客戶都想把存款存入我們這裡。我們可以透過增加國家資訊基礎結構的方式來實現這一點。這讓我們的淨利息收益率 (NIM) 損失了幾個基點，這是一件好事。因此，展望未來，預計 NIM 將繼續擴大。這只是在同類基礎上重新設定加權平均值的超額成長。

Yes. Okay. Perfect. Thank you for that, Rob. And then I was hoping you could just touch on expenses and just a little more thought on why they go up in the fourth quarter. I guess, just given the revenue backdrop, I guess from my perspective, might have thought maybe a little more lift in the third quarter. I'm just not sure how all the accruals work. So it kind of feels like the full year would be okay, but curious to hear any of your thoughts in there.

是的。好的。完美的。謝謝你，羅布。然後我希望您能談談費用，並稍微思考為什麼第四季度費用會增加。我想，僅考慮到收入背景，從我的角度來看，我可能會認為第三季的收入可能會略有提升。我只是不確定所有的應計項目是如何運作的。所以感覺全年都還可以，但我很想聽聽您的想法。

Yes. I think the full year is the way to look at it because there are some seasonal aspects to some of our expenses. They don't fall uniformly in each quarter. The difference is back in July, when we gave full year guidance, we expected expenses to be up for the full year 1%. We're pointing now to 1.5%.

是的。我認為全年是看待這個問題的方式，因為我們的一些開支有一些季節性因素。每季的降幅並不一致。差異在於 7 月份，當我們給出全年指引時，我們預計全年支出將增加 1%。我們現在的目標是 1.5%。

But you've got to go back to July, the noninterest income expectation was up 4.5%, and we're pushing 6%. So that delta in terms of the outperformance on the fees drove our expenses a little bit higher, but those, as you know, are good expenses.

但你必須回顧 7 月份，非利息收入預期上漲了 4.5%，而我們的目標是上漲 6%。因此，費用表現優異的差異導致我們的支出略有增加，但如你所知，這些都是好的支出。

Yeah. Perfect. Okay, wonderful. Thank you very much.

是的。完美的。好的，太棒了。非常感謝。

Yeah, thanks, Scott.

是的，謝謝，斯科特。

Betsy Graseck, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Betsy Graseck。

Hi, good morning. Bill, I wanted to understand a little bit about how you're thinking about scale in this environment. I know you've spoken about that recently, but we've had some deals since then. And what should we be anticipating as we move forward here in this time frame where we have opportunities to maybe move the needle more than we have in the past?

嗨，早安。比爾，我想了解你是如何看待這種環境下的規模的。我知道您最近談過這個，但從那時起我們已經達成了一些交易。那麼，當我們在這個時間範圍內繼續前進時，我們應該期待什麼呢？我們有機會比過去更大的進步？

I think you should look at our organic growth success. We're -- particularly in the new markets where we've laid out a path importantly to be able to grow our retail franchise at the pace we grow our C&I franchise. And that's the whole long term when we talk about scale when you have two giants gathering up retail share unless we can keep pace, share in C&I doesn't necessarily do us any good. We're on track to do that.

我認為你應該看看我們有機的成長成功。我們——特別是在新市場，我們已經制定了一條重要的道路，以便能夠以我們發展 C&I 特許經營權的速度發展我們的零售特許經營權。這就是我們談論規模的整個長期情況，當有兩家巨頭在搶佔零售份額時，除非我們能夠跟上步伐，否則 C&I 的份額並不一定對我們有任何好處。我們正朝著這個目標前進。

We did the FirstBank acquisition because it was kind of a really focused retail gather dominance in a particular state or a couple of markets, opportunity to accelerate what we are doing. But you shouldn't expect that to be the norm. You shouldn't expect us to kind of chase a deal frenzy. We'll look at things should they arise, but we'll be selective as we've always been.

我們之所以收購 FirstBank，是因為這是一個真正專注於零售聚集在特定州或幾個市場的主導地位的機會，可以加速我們正在做的事情。但你不應該期望這是常態。你不應該期望我們會瘋狂地追逐交易。如果出現問題，我們會進行研究，但我們會像往常一樣進行選擇性處理。

Okay. And then, Rob, on the C&I loan growth, very impressive. Just want to understand how much of that is NDFI versus non. And then separately, on the CRE, commercial real estate runoff, how much longer should we anticipate that's going to continue because it's obviously taking away from some of the balances here. I'm wondering when we're going to get to CRE actually growing.

好的。然後，羅布，商業和工業貸款成長非常令人印象深刻。只是想了解其中有多少是 NDFI，有多少是非 NDFI。然後，另外，關於商業房地產流失，我們預計這種情況還會持續多久，因為它顯然會帶走這裡的一些平衡。我想知道我們什麼時候才能真正實現 CRE 的成長。

Yes. No, that's a good question, Betsy. Let's answer the second one first in terms of the commercial real estate balances. We would expect that to inflect at the beginning of next year. So we're near the end in terms of the sort of the rundown of those balances. We are doing new deals, but as we work through, obviously, the issues in office, et cetera, we'd expect that to turn positive going into '26.

是的。不，這是個好問題，貝琪。我們先從商業地產餘額的角度來回答第二個問題。我們預計這種情況將在明年年初發生轉變。因此，就這些餘額的總結而言，我們已經接近尾聲。我們正在進行新的交易，但隨著我們解決辦公室等問題，我們預計到 26 年會變得積極。

And the first part of the question was the NDFI. Yes, the no growth there. All the growth that we had in C&I was outside of that. I know there's a lot of focus on NDFI. We still feel -- this isn't part of your question, but it's implied, I feel very good about the credit quality there, the composition.

問題的第一部分是NDFI。是的，那裡沒有成長。我們在 C&I 領域取得的所有成長均不在此範圍內。我知道 NDFI 受到廣泛關注。我們仍然覺得——這不是您問題的一部分，但它暗示了，我對那裡的信用品質和組成感到非常滿意。

As you know, the vast majority of ours is in asset securitization, bankruptcy remote, investment-grade clients. And the extent that we're involved with private equity, it's in capital commitment lines that have very low loss rates. So NDFI not part of our story this quarter.

如您所知，我們的絕大部分業務是資產證券化、破產遠端、投資等級客戶。就我們參與私募股權投資的程度而言，其資本承諾額度的損失率非常低。因此，NDFI 不是我們本季報告的一部分。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

John Pancari, Evercore ISI.

約翰潘卡里 (John Pancari)，Evercore ISI。

Good morning.

早安.

Good morning, John.

早安，約翰。

Just back to the margin and NII. I just want to see if you can -- I appreciate the color you gave around the deposit dynamics and what impacted the blended deposit costs for the quarter. And maybe if you could talk about the left side of the balance sheet in terms of your updated thoughts around the fixed asset repricing opportunity. Has that changed at all given the moves along the curve in the 10-year?

回到邊緣和 NII。我只是想看看您是否可以——我很欣賞您對存款動態以及影響本季混合存款成本的因素的描述。也許您可以談談資產負債表左側關於固定資產重新定價機會的最新想法。鑑於 10 年期曲線的變動，情況有改變嗎？

And then also, we've had a couple of banks flag some tightening loan spreads on the commercial front. I want to see if you're also seeing that impact and how that could impact your loan yields as you look out.

此外，我們也聽到幾家銀行表示，商業貸款利差正在收緊。我想看看您是否也看到了這種影響，以及這將如何影響您的貸款收益。

Yes, sure. Sure, John. Why don't I broaden that out a little bit for NII. So NII for the full year, we're pointing to up 6.5%. As we go into '26, as we said previously, we expect that trajectory to continue and actually increase. PNC on a stand-alone basis, so not including FirstBank. We'll have these numbers for you in January.

是的，當然。當然，約翰。我為什麼不針對 NII 稍微擴充一下呢？因此，我們預計全年 NII 將成長 6.5%。正如我們之前所說，隨著我們進入 26 年，我們預計這一軌跡將會繼續，甚至會增加。PNC 是獨立的，因此不包括 FirstBank。我們將在一月份為您提供這些數據。

But PNC Bank on a stand-alone basis in '26, consensus for NII is growth of about $1 billion, and that's -- we see that, and we agree with that. We'll have more for you an update, obviously, in January. But the point is that our NII trajectory is in place. The fixed rate asset repricing is still there going into '26 with momentum.

但就 PNC 銀行而言，26 年 NII 的獨立成長預期為 10 億美元左右，我們看到了這一點，也同意這一點。顯然，我們將在一月份為您提供更多更新。但重點是我們的 NII 軌跡已經到位。進入 26 年，固定利率資產重新定價的動能依然強勁。

John, part of the shortfall against previous guidance just in the third quarter was simply the shift -- sorry, into the fourth quarter is the shift on our expectation of Fed cuts, so what's hitting us is if they cut late in the fourth quarter, our deposits don't necessarily catch up in the first.

約翰，第三季與先前指導方針的差距部分在於轉變——抱歉，進入第四季度是我們對聯準會降息預期的轉變，因此，對我們造成打擊的是，如果他們在第四季度末降息，我們的存款不一定能在第一季度趕上。

So what happens is we'll make a little less in the fourth quarter, make a little more in the first quarter. But nothing has changed whatsoever in our NII outlook. The only thing that's changed is like a month shifting on when we had cuts, which affects where it lands.

因此，我們的第四季的獲利會略微減少，而第一季的獲利會略微增加。但我們的 NII 前景沒有任何改變。唯一改變的是，我們削減的時間發生了變化，這影響了削減的地點。

And then with the end of the calendar year in December, sort of we have the negative effect of that, those cuts occurring in December and the positive happening after December. So that explains why the delta of our expectations in NII for Q4 were different than July.

然後，隨著 12 月份日曆年的結束，我們會感受到它的負面影響，這些削減發生在 12 月份，而正面影響則發生在 12 月份之後。這就解釋了為什麼我們對第四季度 NII 的預期增量與 7 月不同。

Got it. Okay. That's very helpful. And thanks for the color on the 2026 NII. That was going to be my part to the question. Therefore, my follow-up would be around the loan growth outlook. What are you seeing right now in terms of broader commercial loan demand?

知道了。好的。這非常有幫助。感謝您對 2026 NII 的評價。這就是我對這個問題的回答。因此，我的後續關注點將圍繞著貸款成長前景。就更廣泛的商業貸款需求而言，您現在看到了什麼？

Are you -- we've had some banks flag still some lackluster commercial demand and not yet seeing CapEx pull through. What are you seeing on that front? Are you seeing some strengthening there? Or is it still somewhat a wait-and-see type of approach?

您是否—我們已經聽到一些銀行表示商業需求仍然低迷，尚未看到資本支出回升。您在這方面看到了什麼？您是否看到那裡有所加強？或者這仍然是一種觀望態度？

At the margin, I guess, a little strengthening, but what we've seen activity in is M&A financing syndications. Utilization, thinking Rob, really hasn't changed.

我想，從邊際來看，情況會有所加強，但我們所看到的活動是併購融資銀團。羅布心想，利用率確實沒有改變。

Yes. It hasn't gone down because we had the pickup in the second quarter. It was sustained --

是的。它沒有下降，因為我們在第二季度有所回升。它持續了--

First and the second, and then we've held it, yes.

第一次和第二次，然後我們就舉行了，是的。

And we continue to see some solid growth in unfunded commitments.

我們繼續看到未撥付資金的承諾穩定成長。

So you kind of back all the moving parts out in the sense that, okay, utilization didn't change. We actually grew balances asset real estate at a pretty healthy clip, and our pipelines are strong. So I had to kind of just rephrase my question that things, I guess, feel good in loan growth outside of this waiting for the inflection in real estate.

因此，你可以將所有活動部件撤出，因為利用率並沒有改變。實際上，我們的資產負債房地產以相當健康的速度成長，而且我們的管道也很強大。所以我必須重新表達我的問題，我想，除了等待房地產拐點之外，貸款成長情況良好。

And as Bryan just mentioned, I don't know if you heard that. Our DHE continues to grow. So our commitments continue to grow. They're unfunded in some part, but there's -- when clients put those in place, there's the expectation that they're going to use them.

正如布萊恩剛才提到的，我不知道您是否聽說過。我們的 DHE 持續成長。因此我們的承諾不斷增加。它們在某些部分沒有資金，但是當客戶將這些資金投入到位時，他們會期望他們會使用它們。

Got it. Okay, thanks so much, Rob. Appreciate it. Thanks, Bill.

知道了。好的，非常感謝，羅布。非常感謝。謝謝，比爾。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Ebrahim Poonawala。

Hey, good morning. I guess maybe Rob or Bill, would love to get your perspective on how you're thinking about the right level of capital for PNC. If I look at the adjusted for AOCI at 9.7%, one of the larger banks brought down kind of where they're operating the bank to 10%, 10.5% yesterday.

嘿，早安。我想也許 Rob 或 Bill 很想聽聽您對 PNC 的適當資本水準的看法。如果我看一下調整後的 AOCI 為 9.7%，其中一家較大的銀行將其營運銀行的比率降至 10%，昨天為 10.5%。

So as a result, not that, that should dictate where you run the bank, but I would love to hear, do you think is 9.5% to 10% is the right place? Is it 9%? Just how are you thinking about it? And is there still -- Moody's, of course, upgraded some of your ratings or the outlook recently. So is there a push and pull with the rating agencies around this topic?

因此，結果並不是這樣，這應該決定你在哪裡經營銀行，但我很想聽聽，你認為 9.5% 到 10% 是正確的位置嗎？是9%嗎？您對此有何看法？當然，穆迪最近提高了你們的部分評級或展望。那麼，評級機構在這話題上是否有推拉關係？

Why don't you go ahead and start, Rob?

羅布，為什麼不開始呢？

Sure. Well, so yes, Ebrahim, good question. Right now, our CET1 is 10.6% on AOCI adjusted just below 10%. So we're in a good position relative to our capital. We had always said that our operating guideline with the Basel III end rules and capital rules still fluid that we would operate between 10% and 10.5%.

當然。嗯，是的，易卜拉欣，這是個好問題。目前，我們的 CET1 為 10.6%，AOCI 調整後略低於 10%。因此，相對於我們的資本，我們處於有利地位。我們一直說，我們的營運指南在巴塞爾協議 III 最終規則和資本規則仍然變動的情況下，我們的營運利率將在 10% 到 10.5% 之間。

We're at the high end of that. But given some recent developments, the Moody's that you had cited that was previously a binding constraint, it's possible that we would work to the lower end of those ranges and possibly even lower, but we'll assess all that with our Board as we go into the new year.

我們處於這個水準的高端。但考慮到最近的一些發展，您提到的穆迪之前是一個約束性限制，我們可能會努力達到這些範圍的較低端，甚至可能更低，但我們將在新的一年與董事會一起評估所有這些。

Yes. We're going to have to do some work because some of the thought process on the rating agencies has actually changed. And then we'll see what happens with risk-weighted assets and anything that comes out of Basel III proposals. But it's in flux, and we are at the high end of whatever that flux --

是的。我們必須做一些工作，因為評級機構的一些思考過程實際上已經改變了。然後我們將看看風險加權資產以及巴塞爾協議 III 提案中出現的任何變化。但它處於不斷變化之中，而我們正處於這種變化的高端--

Yes, that's right --

是的，沒錯--

Resulted, yes.

結果是，是的。

Got it. And just on the other side of it, I'm not sure, Rob, if you laid out what your expectations on GDP growth going into next year were. But between loan demand picking up or credit worsening, like what do you see as the more likelier outcome?

知道了。另一方面，羅布，我不確定您是否闡述了對明年 GDP 成長的預期。但是在貸款需求回升和信貸惡化之間，您認為哪種結果更有可能發生？

Like do we -- do you expect just between the tax bill and overall -- and rate cuts to drive loan demand higher? Or are you seeing more increasing businesses come under pressure of a somewhat stagnant economy and that could lead to more credit issues?

就像我們一樣——您是否預計稅收法案和整體——以及降息會推動貸款需求上升？或者您看到越來越多的企業面臨經濟停滯的壓力，這可能導致更多的信貸問題？

Yes. I think -- and Bill may want to jump in here, too. I mean, I think as Bill said in his opening comments, despite some of the obvious things going on around the world, where -- the economy looks pretty good. And as we go into '26, we see some strength around the loan growth possibilities that we just talked about.

是的。我認為——比爾可能也想加入進來。我的意思是，我認為正如比爾在開場白中所說的那樣，儘管世界各地發生了一些顯而易見的事情，但經濟看起來相當不錯。當我們進入 26 年時，我們看到了剛才談到的貸款成長可能性的一些優勢。

And credit quality is very good. Criticized assets are down, nonperformers are flat. Delinquencies are down; charge-offs are down. Our expectation for charge-offs is down. So we feel pretty good going into the new year.

而且信用品質非常好。受批評的資產減少，不良資產持平。拖欠率下降；沖銷額下降。我們對沖銷額的預期下降了。因此，我們對迎接新的一年感到十分高興。

Yes. The survey that we just did in partnership with Bloomberg with corporate CFOs surprised us to the upside. Majority were bullish not just on their own -- actually, vast majority were bullish, not just on their own company, but on the economy, which kind of surprised me.

是的。我們剛剛與彭博社合作對企業財務長進行的調查結果令我們感到驚訝。大多數人不僅對自己的公司充滿信心——實際上，絕大多數人不僅對自己的公司充滿信心，而且對經濟也充滿信心，這讓我感到有些驚訝。

A big part of that theme was the ability, and the work sets they've done to kind of work through tariffs, whatever they might be and sharpen up their own companies, both in terms of resiliency and just cost efficiencies. And the consumer remains healthy, deposits are growing. It's -- we've got a whole bunch of things that could land on us, but none of them are there and none of them are certain.

這個主題的很大一部分是他們的能力以及他們所做的工作，透過關稅（無論關稅是什麼）來增強自己的公司，無論是在彈性方面還是在成本效率方面。消費者依然健康，存款不斷成長。有很多事情可能會發生在我們身上，但是沒有一件事情是真的，也沒有一件事情是確定的。

And all the leading indicators of the credit are positive.

各項信貸領先指標均為正值。

Right, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Chris McGratty, KBW.

克里斯·麥格拉蒂，KBW。

Oh great, good morning. Rob, maybe start on slide 7, the $9 billion of commercial interest-bearing. I'm interested in what, in your opinion, drove the surge this quarter and whether that's you bring in more on the balance sheet, if there's a change in behavior? What's the, I guess, the outlook as well?

哦，太好了，早安。羅布，也許從第 7 張幻燈片開始，90 億美元的商業利息收入。我感興趣的是，您認為是什麼推動了本季的激增，如果行為發生變化，這是否會為您帶來更多的資產負債表收入？我想，前景又如何呢？

Yes. We just -- it's a combination of things as these things usually are. It's more deposits coming from existing and new corporate clients. In some instances, we did see what were previously -- our customers had deposits on sweep accounts going into money markets coming on balance sheet because the rates coming down on the money market made it almost a tie or less in terms of putting it with us. And all else being equal, they have a relationship with us. They like it with us.

是的。我們只是——這些事情通常都是多種因素的結合。更多的存款來自現有和新的企業客戶。在某些情況下，我們確實看到了先前的情況——我們的客戶將清算帳戶中的存款存入貨幣市場，並記入資產負債表，因為貨幣市場的利率下降使得我們之間的存款幾乎持平或更低。在其他條件相同的情況下，他們與我們有關係。他們喜歡和我們在一起。

Okay. And then my follow-up would be just year-over-year, most of the growth has been in commercial. I guess what are your expectations heading into next year with lower rates in terms of mix of deposit growth for the company.

好的。然後我的後續行動就是逐年進行，大部分成長都來自商業領域。我想問一下，在利率降低的情況下，您對明年公司存款成長組合有何預期？

So we expect further deposit growth going into next year. And of course, in January, we'll give you our full '26 outlook. Don't expect big mix changes like we saw here in the third quarter. That could always happen, but that's unusual.

因此我們預計明年存款將進一步成長。當然，一月份我們會提供您完整的 26 年展望。不要期望出現像我們在第三季度看到的那樣的大的組合變化。這種情況隨時都有可能發生，但並不常見。

I would expect the mix to be fairly stable going into the end of the year and into next year. We could see a little increase in noninterest-bearing deposits in the fourth quarter. We see that sometimes, but that's sort of on the margin.

我預計到今年年底和明年，這種組合將相當穩定。我們可以看到第四季無息存款略有增加。我們有時會看到這種情況，但這只是邊緣現象。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Erika Najarian, UBS.

瑞銀的 Erika Najarian。

Hi, good morning. Just worth repeating, Rob, given sort of the stock reaction, I just wanted to make sure that investors are taking away the right thing from your response to Pancari's question. So you're expecting 6.5% net interest income growth in 2025, given the momentum in what Bill mentioned, retail deposits remixing, also fixed rate asset repricing, you expect '26 NII growth to be better than that 6.5%, excluding FirstBank.

嗨，早安。羅布，值得重複的是，考慮到股票的反應，我只是想確保投資者從你對潘卡里問題的回答中得到正確的東西。因此，您預計 2025 年淨利息收入增長率為 6.5%，考慮到比爾提到的零售存款混合以及固定利率資產重新定價的勢頭，您預計 26 年 NII 增長率將高於 6.5%，不包括 FirstBank。

Comfortably, yes.

是的，很舒服。

Comfortably. Okay. Perfect.

舒服地。好的。完美的。

Bill suggested me to add the word comfortably. So that is --

比爾建議我加上「舒服」這個詞。所以這就是--

Yes, I said -- there seems to be a lot of -- I mean, let's just hit the issue. There seems to be a lot of confusion because NIM went down, totally explained by deposits and then NII felt a little light as we go into our guide because of this issue of when rate cuts are. There's absolutely nothing that has changed on our trajectory of forward NII growth. We will be comfortably above $1 billion on top of this year for '26 number.

是的，我說過——似乎有很多——我的意思是，讓我們直接討論這個問題。似乎存在著許多困惑，因為 NIM 下降了，這完全可以用存款來解釋，然後當我們進入指南時，由於何時降息的問題，NII 感覺有點輕鬆。我們的 NII 未來成長軌跡絕對沒有任何改變。2026 年我們的收入將輕鬆超過 10 億美元。

Right. It's just a timing difference, right? I mean, later cuts and SOFR goes down and then it takes time to reprice deposits.

正確的。這只是時間差異，對嗎？我的意思是，後來降息，SOFR 下降，然後需要時間來重新定價存款。

We got to -- we hit you with two things, right? We confused you with deposit growth. So just isolate that for a second. We're getting corporate -- yes, and NIM. So we get corporate deposits in that SOFR minus something, and we put them on deposit at the Fed at SOFR plus something. We have no supplemental leverage issues in our company. So it's just money in the pocket.

我們必須──我們用兩件事打擊你，對嗎？我們對存款成長感到困惑。因此，請暫時將其隔離。我們正在獲得企業地位——是的，還有 NIM。因此，我們以 SOFR 利率減去一定數額的利率獲得企業存款，然後以 SOFR 利率加上一定數額的利率將其存入美聯儲。我們公司不存在補充槓桿問題。所以這只是口袋裡的錢。

It hurts our NIM when we do that. But we do that all day long. It's riskless money in our pocket. The NII -- the totality of our NII repricing that occurs because of the way we've positioned the balance sheet has not changed at all. All that's changed is 1 month on our expectations of Fed cuts.

當我們這樣做時，它會損害我們的 NIM。但我們整天都在做這件事。這是我們口袋裡的無風險的錢。由於我們調整資產負債表的方式，我們的 NII 整體重新定價根本沒有改變。唯一改變的是我們對聯準會降息預期的一個月前。

Which actually a little -- just a little bit, but just to complete the story.

這實際上只是一點點，但只是為了完成這個故事。

Got it. And just a second question, just to switch gears, and this is for Bill and Rob chime in as well. I thought it was important given all the recent headlines and also investor concerns about NDFI to ask Jamie at the JPMorgan call, even what kind of questions to ask the banks in order for investors to assess the risk. So I'll ask you, what questions should investors be asking in order to be comfortable with the NDFI risk on bank balance sheets.

知道了。還有一個問題，只是為了轉換話題，這也是比爾和羅布想問的。我認為，考慮到最近的頭條新聞以及投資者對 NDFI 的擔憂，有必要在摩根大通電話會議上詢問 Jamie，甚至詢問銀行什麼樣的問題以便投資者評估風險。所以我想問你，投資人應該問什麼問題才能放心銀行資產負債表上的 NDFI 風險。

We're hearing that frequency and severity should be much lower than direct lending and the loss history has been pretty pristine, like Rob reiterated. So what even are those questions that we should ask to really make sure that we're investing in the right underwriters as we think about the potential cycle turn?

我們聽說頻率和嚴重程度應該比直接貸款低得多，而且損失歷史相當清晰，就像羅布重申的那樣。那麼，當我們考慮潛在的周期轉變時，我們應該問哪些問題才能真正確保我們投資於正確的承銷商？

Yes. So I mean, if you want to go down that hole, and it is worth discussing. The category is the wrong category because there's a whole bunch of things that they bucketed into nonbank financials, one of which, which is by far our largest holdings are securitizations to corporates where we basically securitize bankruptcy remote receivables for investment-grade corporates.

是的。所以我的意思是，如果你想深入研究這個問題，這是值得討論的。這個類別是錯誤的，因為他們把一大堆東西都歸入非銀行金融，其中之一，也是迄今為止我們最大的持股，是企業證券化，我們基本上將投資級企業的破產遠程應收賬款證券化。

That is very low risk of default and extremely low loss given default. Inside of securitization, we just saw an example of something in the auto space that went bad, where it looks like the underlying collateral was highly correlated with the actual corporate itself, right? So you had auto loans with an auto loan maker.

這意味著違約風險非常低，違約損失也極低。在證券化內部，我們剛剛看到汽車領域出現問題的一個例子，其中的基礎抵押品似乎與實際公司本身高度相關，對嗎？所以您從汽車貸款機構獲得了汽車貸款。

And you might have -- we'll have to see what comes out of it, some not very careful filing of UCC filings and title tracking. I think that's a wild anomaly. It certainly has nothing to do with our book. The other things you look at, we have capital commitment lines that are effectively diversified receivables from large pension funds and investors that there's never been a loss on. And I think that's a pretty safe business. People will have other things in that bucket, but that's the vast majority of what we have in the bucket.

您可能已經——我們必須看看結果如何，有些人對 UCC 文件和所有權追蹤的提交不夠謹慎。我認為這是一個異常現象。這當然與我們的書無關。您要看的其他事情是，我們擁有資本承諾額度，這些額度實際上是來自大型退休基金和投資者的多元化應收帳款，從未出現過損失。我認為這是一個非常安全的業務。人們會在那個桶子裡放其他東西，但這就是我們桶子裡所擁有的絕大多數東西。

Got it, thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

Gerard Cassidy, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Gerard Cassidy。

Hi Bill. Hi Rob.

你好，比爾。你好，羅布。

Hey, Gerard.

嘿，傑拉德。

In your opening comments, you talked about, if I heard it correctly, you had record debit transactions this quarter as well as I think you said credit card activity as well. Can you just give us some color behind that and what you think how that might continue to flow into the first part of next year?

在您的開場白中，您談到，如果我沒聽錯的話，您本季度有創紀錄的借記交易，而且我認為您也提到了信用卡活動。您能否簡單介紹一下這現象背後的原因，以及您認為這現象將如何延續到明年上半年？

Yes. Look, the credit and debit spend interestingly is across all buckets, more credit in the lower income buckets. I don't know that, that can continue, eventually they're going to hit limitations. Most of the consumer spend that has grown year-on-year is coming, I think, from the wealth effect in the higher end of our wealthy clients, right, who see stock market value and everything else, and it continues to climb.

是的。有趣的是，信用卡和金融卡支出遍布所有階層，低收入階層的信貸更多。我不知道這種情況能否持續下去，最終他們會遇到限制。我認為，大部分同比增長的消費支出都來自於我們富裕客戶的高端財富效應，他們看到了股票市場價值和其他一切的持續攀升。

That's one of the reasons I remain pretty comfortable with the economy, as long as there's consumer spend and we don't have a big crack in employment that it's weakening, but thus far, hasn't really fallen. I think the economy is fine.

這就是我對經濟感到相當滿意的原因之一，只要有消費支出，就業就不會出現大的下滑，但到目前為止，經濟還沒有真正下滑。我認為經濟狀況良好。

I'd add to that -- I'd add just for PNC that we continue to add, particularly in our newer markets, debit card and credit card users. So that's a big part of why we're doing what we're doing there as well.

我想補充一點——我想補充的是，我們將繼續為 PNC 增加服務，特別是在我們的新市場、金融卡和信用卡用戶。這也是我們在那裡做這些事情的一個重要原因。

But even by account cohort, so we're seeing more total volume, but even by account cohort, the consumer still continues to spend. And we grew card balances for the first time in a while, largely on new customers and not pushing on credit to do that, just kind of our new card launches.

但即使以帳戶群組計算，我們也看到更多的總量，但即使以帳戶群組計算，消費者仍繼續消費。我們的信用卡餘額在一段時間內首次出現成長，這主要得益於新客戶的加入，而不是依靠信貸，而只是透過發行新卡來實現的。

New offers.

新優惠。

Yes.

是的。

Got it. And then as a follow-up, there's been real optimism about the tailwind that we're all expecting with the regulatory changes that are underway. There was a notice of proposed rulemaking today on MRAs, matters that require attention and safety and soundness. So hopefully, they're not going to be using them for ticky-tacky stuff and helps everybody yourself and all the others as we go forward.

知道了。接下來，隨著監理改革的進行，我們對即將出現的順風充滿樂觀。今天發布了有關 MRA 的擬議規則制定通知，其中涉及需要注意的事項以及安全性和穩健性。所以希望他們不會將它們用於瑣碎的事情，而是在我們前進的過程中幫助大家和所有其他人。

But Bill or Rob, can you give us some color on what you're hearing in terms of the encouragement coming out of Washington and how the regulators are working with the industry rather than against the industry? Then if you could also tie in, you made a comment a moment ago about Moody's and the rating agencies. Do you think they're going to be the capital binding constraint going forward and not the actual bank regulators when it comes to CET1 ratios?

但是比爾或羅布，您能否向我們介紹一下您所聽到的來自華盛頓的鼓勵以及監管機構如何與行業合作而不是對抗行業的情況？那麼，如果您也能結合剛才您對穆迪和評級機構所發表的評論。您是否認為，在 CET1 比率方面，它們將成為未來的資本約束約束者，而不是實際的銀行監理機構？

So let's go to Moody's here in a second. There is a strong push out of, I would say, Washington broadly to simplify the regulatory process and focus it on things that are material risks. Inside of that, you saw the MRA proposal that I think if it does nothing else, it will get rid of all the crazy ancillary work we do on minor MRAs.

那我們馬上就來談談穆迪。我想說，華盛頓正在大力推動簡化監管流程，並將其重點放在重大風險上。其中，您看到了 MRA 提案，我認為如果它不做任何其他事情，它將擺脫我們在小型 MRA 上所做的所有瘋狂的輔助工作。

If it's -- if you're not in the bank, you don't really understand this. But if we get an MRA, and by the way, we get a lot of them for kind of like silly things. You have to -- you get the MRA, you negotiate it with the regulators. That's a team of people, then you write your response to how you're going to fix the MRA and then you assign people who are responsible for the MRA and then you do set up committees and then you spend 1,000 hours like fixing some in the MRA process where you could actually fix the issue that they were concerned about in 10 hours.

如果是——如果你不在銀行工作，你就無法真正理解這一點。但是如果我們獲得 MRA，順便說一句，我們會因為一些愚蠢的事情而獲得很多 MRA。你必須——你獲得 MRA，並與監管機構進行協商。這是一個團隊，然後你寫下如何修復 MRA 的回复，然後你指派負責 MRA 的人員，然後你成立委員會，然後你花費 1,000 個小時來解決 MRA 流程中的一些問題，你實際上可以在 10 小時內解決他們所關心的問題。

So if it actually comes out the way they wrote their proposal, it's a massive work set decline inside of our company, not because we're not going to fix issues, but rather that we're going to just fix issues as opposed to talk about them for months. On capital, it will be kind of interesting. Moody's had been the binding constraint.

因此，如果最終結果確實如他們所寫的提案那樣，那麼我們公司內部的工作量就會大幅下降，這並不是因為我們不打算解決問題，而是因為我們只想解決問題，而不是花幾個月的時間討論這些問題。就資本而言，這將會很有趣。穆迪一直是具有約束力的約束因素。

But remember, Moody's triggers their ratings off of risk-weighted assets also. So when Basel III end game comes out, depending on how they calculate risk-weighted assets, right, that even if you're supposed to hold, in our example, this -- we're sitting at 10% to 10.5%, it could well be that our capital ratio spikes because risk-weighted assets go down because operating risk and/or investment-grade credit is treated differently.

但請記住，穆迪也會根據風險加權資產進行評級。因此，當巴塞爾協議 III 最終出台時，取決於他們如何計算風險加權資產，對吧，即使你應該持有，在我們的例子中，這個 - 我們的資本比率是 10％ 到 10.5％，很可能我們的資本比率會飆升，因為風險加權資產會下降，因為營運風險和/或投資級信貸受到不同的對待。

So started new definition.

因此開始新的定義。

So I don't -- I think it's way too early to kind of assume who or what is the binding constraint until we actually see what comes out of Basel III end game because the expectation is in Basel III, we're going to drop risk-weighted assets pretty -- potentially pretty substantially.

所以我認為，在我們真正看到巴塞爾協議 III 的最終結果之前，現在就假設誰或什麼是約束性約束還為時過早，因為在巴塞爾協議 III 中，我們預期我們將大幅削減風險加權資產——可能相當大。

And based on your guys' experience working with both the regulators and the rating agencies, is there a preference on which one you'd rather have be the binding constraint? Not to put you on the spot, but if you don't want to answer it, that's fine too.

根據你們與監管機構和評級機構合作的經驗，你們是否更傾向於選擇哪一個作為約束條件？我不是要讓你為難，但如果你不想回答，那也沒關係。

I think -- look, at the end of the day, we're the binding constraint. We want to make sure the company is well capitalized for all scenarios. I don't know that I necessarily -- let's assume for a second that everybody completely lost their mind and said risk-weighted assets fell in half. I would say no. That doesn't mean I'm going to drop our capital ratio materially below where it is today.

我認為——看，到最後，我們就是約束因素。我們希望確保公司在所有情況下都擁有充足的資本。我不知道我是否一定——讓我們假設一下，每個人都完全失去了理智，並說風險加權資產下跌了一半。我會說不。這並不意味著我要將我們的資本比率大幅降低至低於目前的水平。

I just -- I think all the external people who look at our capital do so with rough assumptions, whereas we look at it with great detail and run the company for the -- to have Jamie's words of fortress balance sheet independent of what other people tell us.

我只是——我認為所有外部人士在審視我們的資本時，都是基於粗略的假設，而我們則會非常詳細地審視它，並為了——讓傑米所說的堡壘資產負債表與其他人告訴我們的內容無關。

Sounds good. Appreciate the color. Thank you.

聽起來不錯。欣賞色彩。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Ken Usdin, Autonomous Research.

肯‧烏斯丁，自主研究。

Great, thanks a lot. Hey, Rob, I just wanted to ask if you could talk a little bit more. You mentioned that deposit costs should be down in the fourth. And just furthering the discussion about the commercial growth that you saw this quarter, knowing that's just simply a higher rate product. Can you kind of just tell us how then you expect the wholesale track to compare with the retail track as you get down to this next phase of the rate cycle?

太好了，非常感謝。嘿，羅布，我只是想問你是否可以再多聊一會兒。您提到，第四季存款成本應該會下降。進一步討論本季的商業成長，要知道這只是一種更高利率的產品。您能否告訴我們，當進入利率週期的下一階段時，您預計批發軌道與零售軌道將如何比較？

Yes. Yes. So yes, so we do expect that our rate paid will come down in the fourth quarter. In fact, it has already come down. And then it's just a question of the betas in terms of the categories, C&I, as you know, can be moved pretty fast. You can get to 100% beta, maybe not right out of the box, but eventually.

是的。是的。是的，我們確實預計我們的支付率將在第四季度下降。事實上，它已經下降了。然後這只是類別方面的測試問題，正如您所知，C&I 可以移動得相當快。您可以獲得 100% 測試版，也許不是立即可用，但最終會如此。

High net worth somewhat similar. Retail is where it's a little bit slower just because the rate paid there is still pretty low. And this is nothing new. But just in terms of that back book pricing that down, there's not as much of an ability to do that because they're already down. But again, that's been the case for a while.

高淨值人士有點類似。零售業的發展稍慢一些，因為那裡的工資水平仍然很低。這並不是什麼新鮮事。但就降低帳面定價而言，我們並沒有能力做到這一點，因為價格已經下降了。但話說回來，這種情況已經持續了一段時間了。

Right. Okay. And then on -- just on the commercial growth, it's interesting that you get this new business, you say that it's partially new customer. So just wondering like you keep it at the Fed for now. Do you presume this also leads to incremental loan growth? Do you eventually get the confidence that it's sticky deposit growth and you put in securities and kind of lock in some more?

正確的。好的。然後 - 僅就商業成長而言，有趣的是，您獲得了這項新業務，您說這部分是新客戶。所以我只是想想知道你現在是否將其保留在美聯儲。您是否認為這也會導致貸款增量成長？您是否最終確信存款將持續成長，並且您將投入證券並鎖定更多資金？

Just coming back to that discussion of it's good to get the extra deposit growth. Do you assume it's sticky and kind of what's the best way to maximize on higher cost deposit opportunities like what's happened in the wholesale side this quarter?

回到剛才的討論，獲得額外的存款成長是件好事。您是否認為這是一個棘手的問題，並且如何最好地最大化利用更高成本的存款機會，就像本季度批發方面發生的情況一樣？

Thanks. I would hope that the industry has learned by now that you shouldn't put duration on corporate deposits, particularly when it's excess cash. Now we do it on transaction accounts, DDAs that corporates fund for our TM products. But when they are just floating extra cash, we treat it like it's a duration of a day.

謝謝。我希望業界現在已經認識到，不應該對公司存款設定期限，特別是當它是過剩現金時。現在我們在交易帳戶上進行此操作，即企業為我們的 TM 產品提供資金的 DDA。但當他們只是浮動額外的現金時，我們會將其視為一天的時間。

I wouldn't mind using some of it for some --

我不介意使用其中的一些--

Well, I guess that's still the timing debate, right? You get some great extra deposit growth, but we're still waiting for the great step-up on the loan growth side. It was really good this quarter, but that's part of this just like slight timing disconnect with the rates paid versus just sitting in cash. So I guess people are just still looking to understand like what kind of inflection do you expect on the loan side.

嗯，我想這仍然是時間上的爭論，對嗎？您獲得了一些額外的存款成長，但我們仍在等待貸款成長方面的大幅提升。本季的情況確實很好，但這也是部分原因，就像支付利率與現金持有之間存在輕微的時間脫節一樣。所以我猜人們仍然想了解你預計貸款方面會出現什麼樣的變化。

Look, I mean, simplify the question, we are very liquid and can support loan growth. Activity utilization popped, line total commitments have popped, activity this quarter on the back of M&A was higher. We saw capital markets and imbalances.

看，我的意思是，簡化問題，我們的流動性非常強，可以支持貸款成長。活動利用率大幅提升，線路總承諾額大幅提升，本季在併購的推動下活動增加。我們看到了資本市場和不平衡現象。

And again, if you just back out the continued decline in real estate that will inflect, like we didn't have that. Our loan growth year-on-year would have -- I don't know, would have been a big number, C&I absent real estate, that's likely to continue.

再說一次，如果你只是回想一下房地產的持續下滑，就會發現情況並不像我們想像的那麼糟。我們的貸款同比增長將會——我不知道，將會是一個很大的數字，如果沒有房地產，商業和工業貸款可能會繼續增長。

And inflect at the beginning of '26 at the earlier, and can, too. I mean it's accretive. So we're sitting here, deposit at the Fed, however, making money.

並且早在'26 年初就能夠進行變位。我的意思是它具有增值性。所以我們坐在這裡，把錢存入聯準會，賺錢。

Absolutely. Okay, great. Thanks, guys.

絕對地。好的，太好了。謝謝大家。

Mike Mayo, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的麥克·梅奧。

Hey, Bill, could you expand more on the potential benefits of less regulation, the cost of MRAs? Like how much could this potentially save in expenses when you throw it all in together, like the examination of the MRAs, the -- more of the ticky-tacky process-oriented stuff and they're moving more towards just plain old financial strength like in the old days, like how much do you spend? How many people are dedicated to some of those efforts that might go away at some point?

嘿，比爾，你能否進一步闡述減少監管的潛在好處以及 MRA 的成本？例如，當你把所有這些放在一起時，這可以節省多少開支，比如對 MRA 的檢查，更多的是面向流程的瑣碎東西，他們正朝著過去那樣的簡單的財務實力發展，比如你花了多少錢？有多少人致力於某些可能在某個時候消失的努力？

Yes, it's a good question, Mike. And I don't know that -- I mean it's just out. So I don't know that we've tried to quantify it. But I mean, it's an FT equivalents, it's hundreds and hundreds of people that are just tied up to -- what's the best number I can give. BPI put out something like a year ago, you go back and look at it where we talked about the number of hours, man hours the banks are -- have increased on MRA compliance since like 2020 or something. And it was a clean double, if not more.

是的，這是個好問題，麥克。我不知道——我的意思是它剛剛出來。所以我不知道我們是否嘗試過量化它。但我的意思是，它相當於《金融時報》，有成百上千的人與之相關——我能給出的最佳數字是多少？BPI 大約在一年前發布了一些內容，你可以回顧一下，當時我們討論了自 2020 年左右以來銀行在 MRA 合規方面投入的工時數量有所增加。這是一次乾淨的雙殺，甚至更好。

What they're talking about is a material change, we'll have to work our way through what that actually means. Importantly, it doesn't mean we're going to back off on what we actually do to monitor risk, including compliance and some of the things we used to get MRAs for that we won't get anymore. It just means that we won't have all the process around it. And the process is what kills us. It's not actually the work to fix things. It's the documentation and the databases and the meetings and the committees and the secretaries of the committees --

他們所談論的是實質的變化，我們必須弄清楚這實際上意味著什麼。重要的是，這並不意味著我們會放棄實際的風險監控工作，包括合規性以及我們過去獲得 MRA 但現在不再獲得的一些東西。這只是意味著我們不會擁有圍繞它的所有流程。而這個過程正是殺死我們的根源。這其實並不是修復事物的工作。它是文件、資料庫、會議、委員會和委員會秘書--

And the follow-up.

以及後續行動。

It just -- it's -- I mean, you can't even imagine how bad it is unless you actually sit in a bank. And if they actually have to clean it up sometimes --

這只是——這是——我的意思是，除非你真的坐在銀行里，否則你甚至無法想像它有多糟糕。如果他們有時真的需要清理它--

No, we all -- that's our job is to try to quantify these things. But just as far as how much of your time it takes, if you go back, say, 20 years ago, how much time you spent on these things and then after the financial crisis, how much time you spent. And then two years ago, I think peak regulation, how much time you spent and now kind of where you are today, like how would you thought something like that?

不，我們所有人——我們的工作就是嘗試量化這些事情。但至於你需要花多少時間，如果你回顧一下，比如說，20年前，你花了多少時間在這些事情上，然後在金融危機之後，你花了多少時間。然後兩年前，我認為是峰值調節，你花了多少時間，現在你處於什麼位置，你怎麼會想到這樣的事情？

20 years ago is actually a bad time period for PNC. So you're one of the few is around back then. We spent a lot of time on regulatory stuff, but that was us, not the system. It's just increased through the years. Our Board -- the best example is just the amount of time our Board spends reviewing nonstrategic ticky-tacky MRA-related regulatory stuff. It's gone from something we never really talked about in the ordinary course to half of our time spent with our Board.

20年前對PNC來說其實是個糟糕的時期。所以你是當時在場的少數人之一。我們在監管事務上花費了大量時間，但那是我們的事情，而不是系統的事情。這些年來，這一數字一直在增加。我們的董事會——最好的例子就是我們的董事會花費大量時間審查與 MRA 相關的非策略性、瑣碎的監管事項。我們從平常從未真正談論過這個問題，變成了我們花一半時間與董事會討論這個問題。

So half of the time that you spend with your Board is on regulatory matters?

那麼，您與董事會共度的時間有一半是用於處理監管事務嗎？

I'm just thinking through, we have compliance committees. So assume risk committee, compliance committees, tech committees, they all own MRAs that we need to report out on. It's a lot. It's -- I mean we're going to have to -- that announcement was a massive announcement.

我只是在想，我們有合規委員會。因此，假設風險委員會、合規委員會、技術委員會，他們都擁有我們需要報告的 MRA。很多。我的意思是我們必須這樣做——這個聲明是一個重大聲明。

And we'll see how it plays out and the industry has to do a lot of work to figure out what that actually means. We're kind of numb from the existing process, so we'll have to see. But it's a lot of FTEs.

我們將拭目以待，看看事情會如何發展，業界必須做大量工作才能弄清楚這到底意味著什麼。我們對現有的流程有點麻木了，所以我們必須拭目以待。但這是很多全職當量 (FTE)。

All right. We'll stay tuned. Thank you.

好的。我們將持續關注。謝謝。

Matt O'Connor, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的馬特·奧康納。

Hi, Bill, I want to follow up on your comment about not chasing M&A. I guess if that's the case and you've got all this capital and operating leverage and desire to get bigger, like thoughts on just leaning in from an organic point of view, whether it's an additional ramp-up in branches, maybe leveraging the deal bankers? Or just how are you thinking about organic opportunities to maybe accelerate some of the growth?

你好，比爾，我想跟進一下你關於不追求併購的評論。我想，如果情況確實如此，並且您擁有所有這些資本和營運槓桿，並且希望變得更大，那麼您是否會考慮從有機角度進行傾斜，無論是增加分支機構，還是利用交易銀行家？或者您如何考慮有機機會來加速某些成長？

Well, we've been going at that pretty hard, and you'll see in our plans, the capital that we put behind branch builds, we talked about, hey, we completed 25 this year, but that 200, like we have sites out there, we have construction going on, and we're going to continue this into the foreseeable future. So this wasn't kind of a onetime announcement and then we're done.

嗯，我們一直在努力做到這一點，您會在我們的計劃中看到，我們為分支機構建設投入的資金，我們談到了，嘿，我們今年完成了 25 個，但是那 200 個，就像我們在那裡有站點一樣，我們正在進行建設，我們將在可預見的未來繼續這樣做。所以這不是一次性的公告，然後我們就完成了。

You'll see us continue to roll this investment into important markets to get over that 7% kind of branch share. C&I, we can grow at pace. We add bankers to our newer markets as we kind of fill client plates with the bankers we have. And the growth opportunity there continues for years, and that's about people and brand and kind of persistence and calling with good ideas.

您會看到我們繼續將這項投資投入到重要市場，以獲得超過 7% 的分行份額。C&I，我們可以快速成長。我們為新市場中增加了銀行家，因為我們用現有的銀行家填補了客戶空缺。那裡的成長機會將持續多年，而這關乎人才、品牌、堅持和好主意的召喚。

So that one I don't worry about. It's just this retail share where you have to get -- this isn't just PNC in my view, if you want to be in the retail banking business, until you get sufficient share to be able to keep your retail clients who move around the country, like you got to drop the attrition rate. I think you're at a disadvantage to these giant banks, and I think they continue to gobble it up.

所以這一點我並不擔心。你必須獲得的只是零售份額——在我看來，如果你想從事零售銀行業務，這不僅僅是 PNC，直到你獲得足夠的份額，能夠留住在全國各地流動的零售客戶，就像你必須降低流失率一樣。我認為你們相對於這些大型銀行處於劣勢，而且我認為他們會繼續吞噬你們。

And so we have a path to get there organically. People get all -- everybody is all excited about M&A, but there actually aren't many visible sellers who have any sort of decent retail share. Part of the reason a lot of these guys are selling is because they don't have an answer to this question. One of the deals we've recently seen is actually they were in the extreme position of simply having corporate deposits in a struggling retail franchise.

因此，我們有一條自然而然地實現這一目標的途徑。人們都對併購感到興奮，但實際上並沒有太多可見的賣家擁有可觀的零售份額。許多人出售股票的部分原因是他們不知道這個問題的答案。我們最近看到的其中一項交易實際上是，他們處於極端的境地，僅僅在陷入困境的零售特許經營中擁有公司存款。

So think about how I might look at that deal. That actually exacerbates our problem. It doesn't help it at all, right? We need real honest retail share, which is what got us so excited about FirstBank. Yes, that's what they do, clean deposits, clean branches, great customer service, low-cost deposits. When we talk about scale, that's the thing we're always talking about. everything else we can grow organically with no worries.

所以想想我會如何看待這筆交易。這實際上加劇了我們的問題。這根本沒用，對吧？我們需要真正的誠實的零售份額，這正是我們對 FirstBank 如此興奮的原因。是的，這就是他們所做的，乾淨的存款，乾淨的分支機構，優質的客戶服務，低成本的存款。當我們談論規模時，這就是我們一直在談論的事情。其他一切都可以有機地發展，無需擔心。

Yes. Just to add to that, Matt, I mean, the organic growth opportunity that we have ahead of us has got us excited because the organic growth contributions to everything in our company and every business line are substantial. So we're seeing higher growth rates in corporate in the expansion markets, higher growth rates in asset management and higher growth rates in retail.

是的。馬特，我還要補充一點，我們面臨的有機成長機會讓我們感到興奮，因為有機成長對我們公司的一切以及每條業務線的貢獻都是巨大的。因此，我們看到擴張市場中的企業成長率更高，資產管理中的成長率更高，零售中的成長率也更高。

We are -- one of the things -- we're going to have Alex (inaudible) we're going to detail in one of the upcoming conferences, the success we've had over the last -- we've been at it for a handful of years, but the success, progress, and momentum inside of our retail franchise, which gives us a lot of comfort that while it might take longer, we're going to succeed at this.

我們——其中一件事——我們將讓亞歷克斯（聽不清楚）在即將召開的一次會議上詳細介紹我們過去的成功——我們已經堅持了幾年，但我們零售特許經營內部的成功、進步和勢頭，這給了我們很大的安慰，雖然可能需要更長的時間，但我們會成功。

And it is happening.

而這正在發生。

DDA growth, customer set, number of products owned, a lot of good positive signs that give us comfort that we can do this organically.

DDA 成長、客戶群、擁有的產品數量，許多正面的跡象讓我們相信我們可以有機地做到這一點。

That's helpful. And then just specifically on the pace of the branch openings. I mean, if you step back and say, we thought in the next M&A cycle, there might be something bigger we could do at a reasonable price.

這很有幫助。然後具體談談分公司開設的速度。我的意思是，如果你退一步說，我們認為在下一個併購週期中，我們可能會以合理的價格做一些更大的事情。

Now that's probably not going to be the case. So let's kind of double or triple down the efforts. I mean, I know there's always so much you can build at a time, but you're a big company, lots of REITs. I would think you could do multiples of kind of what you've put out there if you wanted.

現在情況可能並非如此。所以讓我們加倍甚至三倍地努力吧。我的意思是，我知道你可以一次建造很多東西，但你是一家大公司，有很多房地產投資信託基金。我認為，如果您願意的話，您可以做很多您已經做過的事情。

Yes. It's -- we're actually -- part of it is we're building on what we've historically done. I think we're doing like twice or 3 times the pace of what we did a year before. So we're having to scale our internal group that actually does that. Site selection takes time. And then the actual builds, if we have 150 builds going on right now, I got a construction manager at each one of those sites. So we got to scale all of that.

是的。事實上，我們所做的工作有一部分是建立在我們過去所做工作的基礎上。我認為我們現在的進度是一年前的兩倍或三倍。因此，我們必須擴大我們內部團隊的規模來真正做到這一點。選址需要時間。然後是實際的建設，如果我們現在有 150 個建設項目，我會在每個工地安排一名施工經理。所以我們必須擴大這一切。

But you're right, as we kind of build this skill set, which we haven't exercised for a bunch of years, we could accelerate it if we wanted to. And the other thing, people are like, why are you building branches? We still have branch -- probably more branches in the country than we necessarily need in the long term. PNC doesn't necessarily have the branches in the markets, we need saturation.

但您說得對，當我們建立起這套多年未曾運用過的技能時，如果我們願意的話，我們可以加速它。另一件事是，人們會問，為什麼要建立分支機構？我們仍然擁有分支機構——可能在全國範圍內擁有的分支機構數量比我們長期所需的數量還要多。PNC 不一定在市場上設有分支機構，我們需要的是飽和度。

And importantly, a lot of the banks that you might say, hey, why don't you buy this or why don't you buy that? Their branches are in a state that we might as well just build them from scratch anyway. They're in the wrong place to roll. They don't really have real retail customer relationships. A lot of its brokered and its real estate. So that's not going to be the answer to how we fill this in.

重要的是，很多銀行可能會說，嘿，你為什麼不買這個或為什麼不買那個？他們的分支機構處於這樣的狀態，我們不妨從頭開始建造它們。他們走錯地方了。他們實際上並沒有真正的零售客戶關係。其中很多都是經紀業務和房地產。所以這不是我們如何填寫這個問題的答案。

Okay. All those details were helpful. Thank you.

好的。所有這些細節都很有幫助。謝謝。

Thank you. We've reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Bryan for any further or closing comments.

謝謝。我們的問答環節已經結束。我想將發言權交還給布萊恩，請他發表進一步的評論或結束評論。

Well, thank you, Kevin, and thank you all for joining our call today. If you have any follow-up questions, please feel free to reach out to the IR team. Thanks.

好吧，謝謝你，凱文，也謝謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。如果您有任何後續問題，請隨時聯絡 IR 團隊。謝謝。

Thanks, everybody.

謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網路直播到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路並享受美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。