甲骨文 (ORCL) 2004 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the SeeBeyond actual third-quarter results conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later we will conduct a question-and-answer session. Please note this conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Ms. Andrea Williams, VP Investor Relations. Ms. Williams, you may begin.

各位女士、先生，下午好，歡迎參加 SeeBeyond 實際第三季業績電話會議。此刻所有與會者皆處於僅收聽模式。稍後我們將進行問答環節。請注意，本次會議將被錄音。現在我想把電話交給投資人關係副總裁 Andrea Williams 女士。Williams 女士，您可以開始了。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for participating in SeeBeyond's third quarter 2004 earnings conference call. With us today are Jim Demetriades, CEO of SeeBeyond; Carv Moore, President and COO; and Barry Plaga, EVP and Chief Financial Officer. Following management's comments we will open up the call to any questions. Now I would like to read the Safe Harbor disclaimer and other securities law related statements. The following conference call includes statements that are not historical in nature and as such are intended to be forward-looking statements. For purposes of the Safe Harbor provided by the Securities Litigation Reform Act. These statements, including those related to estimated revenue and earnings per share for the fourth quarter of 2004, and full-year 2005, the expected level of future customer demand, the expected areas of management focus, including the drive for operational effectiveness in North America and Asia-Pacific, expected headcount levels, future DSO levels, future service revenue levels, expectations regarding our collaboration with Sun, and the expectations of future growth in SeeBeyond's business including growth related to specific products and market segments, these are all statements based on SeeBeyond's current expectations, assumptions, estimates and projections. Its industry and its future prospects.

謝謝，接線員。各位下午好，感謝各位參與 SeeBeyond 2004 年第三季財報電話會議。今天與會的有 SeeBeyond 執行長 Jim Demetriades；總裁兼營運長 Carv Moore；以及執行副總裁暨財務長 Barry Plaga。管理層發言結束後，我們將開放提問。現在我想宣讀「安全港」免責聲明及其他與證券法相關的聲明。以下電話會議包含非歷史性陳述，因此屬於前瞻性陳述。其目的在於適用《證券訴訟改革法》所提供的安全港條款。這些陳述，包括與 2004 年第四季及 2005 全年之預估營收與每股盈餘、未來客戶需求的預期水準、管理層預期的重點領域（包括推動北美與亞太地區的營運效能）、預期的人員編制水準、未來 DSO 水準、未來服務營收水準、我們與 Sun 合作的相關預期，以及 SeeBeyond 業務未來成長的預期（包括與特定產品及市場區隔相關的成長），均係基於 SeeBeyond 目前的期望、假設、估計與預測。以及其所處產業與未來展望。

The Company would like to remind you that these statements are predictions, and that actual events and results may differ materially from those forward-looking statements based on certain risks including market acceptance of our products and services, risks relating to customer adoption of and sale of efforts behind the SeeBeyond ICAN 5 Suite. The discretionary decision to release new versions of existing SeeBeyond products, release of competitive products, and changes in the mix of products and service revenue. Delay, and or cancelation of large transactions, among other factors. The forward-looking statements contained herein and earnings -- today's earnings release and also conference call are subject to other risks and uncertainties, including those most fully described in the Company's filings with the SEC, including its annual report filed on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2003 and its quarterly reports on Form 10-Q. The Company does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements. Please note, as well, on this call we will discuss historical financial and other statistical information regarding our business and operations. Some of this information is included in today's press release, which we have posted on our Website and furnished to the SEC on Form 8-K. The remainder -- the remainder of this information will be available on our Website by accessing a replay of this call. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Carv Moore.

本公司提醒各位，這些陳述屬於預測，實際事件與結果可能因若干風險而與前瞻性陳述存在重大差異，包括市場對我們產品與服務的接受度、與客戶採用 SeeBeyond ICAN 5 Suite 及相關銷售推動工作之風險。是否自行決定釋出既有 SeeBeyond 產品的新版本、競爭產品的推出，以及產品與服務營收組合的變化。大型交易的延遲及／或取消等因素。本文所載之前瞻性陳述以及今日的財報新聞稿與本次電話會議，亦受其他風險與不確定性影響，詳見本公司向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交之文件中最完整的說明，包括截至 2003 年 12 月 31 日止年度之 Form 10-K 年報，以及 Form 10-Q 季報。本公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述之義務。另請注意，本次電話會議亦將討論與本公司業務與營運相關的歷史財務及其他統計資訊。其中部分資訊已包含於今日新聞稿中，我們已將其發布於公司網站，並以 Form 8-K 提交予 SEC。其餘——其餘資訊可透過在我們網站收聽本次電話會議的重播取得。現在我想把電話交給 Carv Moore。

Thank you Andrea and welcome everyone to our third quarter 2004 earnings conference call. I'd like to begin by sharing with you a few of the key highlights from the quarter. For the third quarter 2004, we reported total revenue of 41.7 million, a 29% improvement over the same period last year. We also reported GAAP earnings of 1 cent per share in the third quarter versus a loss of 6 cents per share in the same period last year. Expense management and profitability are a key focus area of our operational oversight. Even more significant was the license revenue we reported for the third quarter of 2004 of 17.9 million, which is a 60% increase over the prior year's third quarter. And we ended the quarter with approximately 68.1 million in cash or approximately 80 cents per share and DSO of 76 days. Overall, we are pleased with our performance for the third quarter and are continuing to drive progress in key areas such as, one, North America sales execution, as evidenced by great new customer wins at Borders, Dunn and Brad Street, St. Paul Travelers, Phoenix Wealth management, and Pegasus Solutions.

謝謝 Andrea，也歡迎各位參加我們 2004 年第三季財報電話會議。我想先與各位分享本季幾項重點摘要。2004 年第三季，我們公布總營收為 4,170 萬，較去年同期成長 29%。我們亦公布第三季依 GAAP 計算之每股盈餘為 0.01 美元，相較去年同期每股虧損 0.06 美元。費用管理與獲利能力是我們營運監督的關鍵聚焦領域。更值得注意的是，我們 2004 年第三季的授權（license）營收為 1,790 萬，較去年第三季成長 60%。本季結束時，我們持有約 6,810 萬現金，約合每股 0.80 美元，DSO 為 76 天。整體而言，我們對第三季表現感到滿意，並持續在幾個關鍵領域推動進展，例如：第一，北美銷售執行力的提升，從 Borders、Dunn and Brad Street、St. Paul Travelers、Phoenix Wealth Management 與 Pegasus Solutions 等優異的新客戶得標即可見一斑。

Two a renewed focus on strategic alliances development. Three, customer adoption of ICAN 5, which debuted a year ago and four, composite application development with our existing customer base. We closed 75 deals in third quarter, bringing our total customer base to nearly 1,950. The largest installed base in the pure play integration space. With marked success across key verticals including financial services, health care, manufacturing and retail, the following customers represent new and existing business during the quarter: BMW Group, BNP Paribas, Borders Group, Dunn and Bradstreet, EDS, Emerson, Haworth, Hertz Corporation, Nestle, United Kingdom's National Health Service. ORIX Australia, Pegasus Solutions, Phoenix Wealth Management, Societe Generale, St. Paul Travelers, State of South Dakota, Sutter Health and U.S. Oncology Incorporated. Several of our notable wins included Phoenix Wealth Management, which was a significant financial services win in Q3. This customer needed a Web services solutions for several key initiatives in the year ahead. SeeBeyond competed against IBM and WebMethods head to head in this deal and the SeeBeyond team succeeded through successful partnering with Deloitte in being able to articulate key differentiations in business process managing, business activity monitoring, and composite application development. All on one integrated organic platform.

第二，重新聚焦策略聯盟的發展。第三，ICAN 5（於一年前推出）的客戶採用；第四，與既有客戶基礎共同推動複合式應用（composite application）開發。我們在第三季完成 75 筆交易，使客戶總數接近 1,950 家。為純整合（pure play integration）領域中最大的裝機客戶基礎。在金融服務、醫療保健、製造與零售等關鍵垂直領域均取得顯著成果；以下客戶代表本季新增與既有業務：BMW Group、BNP Paribas、Borders Group、Dunn and Bradstreet、EDS、Emerson、Haworth、Hertz Corporation、Nestle、英國 National Health Service。ORIX Australia、Pegasus Solutions、Phoenix Wealth Management、Societe Generale、St. Paul Travelers、南達科他州政府、Sutter Health 以及 U.S.Oncology Incorporated。我們幾項值得一提的得標包括 Phoenix Wealth Management，這是第三季在金融服務領域的重要勝利。該客戶在未來一年有數項關鍵計畫，需要一套 Web 服務解決方案。在此案中，SeeBeyond 與 IBM 及 WebMethods 正面競爭；SeeBeyond 團隊透過與 Deloitte 的成功合作，清楚闡述我們在業務流程管理、業務活動監控，以及複合式應用開發方面的關鍵差異化，最終取得勝利。全部建立在單一整合的原生平台之上。

To round out a tremendous quarter for financial services were great wins at Societe Generale and also at Goldman Sachs. Both at these wins are at the expense of our traditional competitors, WebMethods, and Tibco, our overwhelmingly convincing depth of experience with swift protocalls in Europe as well as excellent referenceable customer based asset managers overseas were the key differentiators for us. Thanks to all the teams around the world that helped us bring these deals across the finish line in Q3. Overall, North America sales execution is continuing to improve with North America license performance stabilizing in the last six months, we need to continue a growth trend in North America, and will continue to bring additional reps on line in that region. We still have work to do, and -- to have a greater percentage of our reps hitting quota in North America but we are making good progress thus far. To close, overall, we are pleased with our Q3 products and believe that we can continue to improve in the specific areas, that we have outlined for you over the last three quarters. We remain focused on controlling costs, improving sales force effectiveness and ensuring customer success with ICAN 5. My attention remains on focusing improved alliance relationships and our continuing to drive operational effectiveness in North America and Asia-Pacifics as the teams continue to mature. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Jim Demetriades, our CEO and founder for some more color on the overall environment and our position in the marketplace.

為金融服務領域這個卓越季度再添亮點的，是我們在 Societe Generale 以及 Goldman Sachs 的重大得標。這兩項勝利皆是在我們傳統競爭對手 WebMethods 與 Tibco 的案子中勝出；我們在歐洲 swift 協定方面壓倒性的深厚經驗，以及海外資產管理機構中可供引用的優質客戶基礎，是我們的關鍵差異化因素。感謝全球各地的團隊在第三季協助我們將這些交易推進並順利完成。整體而言，北美銷售執行力持續改善；過去六個月北美授權表現已趨於穩定，我們需要延續北美的成長趨勢，並將持續在該區域增聘更多業務代表。我們仍有工作要做——讓北美更多比例的業務代表達成配額，但目前進展良好。最後，整體而言，我們對第三季的產品表現感到滿意，並相信我們能在過去三季向各位所概述的特定領域持續改善。我們仍專注於控制成本、提升銷售團隊效能，並確保客戶在 ICAN 5 上取得成功。我仍將重點放在強化聯盟關係，以及隨著團隊持續成熟，推動北美與亞太地區的營運效能。現在我想把電話交給我們的執行長兼創辦人 Jim Demetriades，請他就整體環境與我們在市場中的定位提供更多說明。

Thank you, Carv. As I shared with you all last quarter, we are beginning to see a dramatic shift in the needs and priorities of our customer base. A recent study of nearly 500 enterprise buyers by the Yankee Group of Boston revealed that in the next 12 months, 75% of those organizations plan on investing in the technology and staffing necessary to enable a service oriented architecture. We are seeing this in our own customer base and are witnessing a fundamental shift from database centric applications to composite applications that leverage an integrated service oriented architecture, which is a perfect fit for the capabilities of SeeBeyond's technology. The next generation of this technology is here and it's centered around reusability and lowering total cost of ownership through the development of service oriented based composite applications. So recent research published by leading European analysts for most of the Butler group has shown that organizations using SeeBeyond ICAN 5 platform can save over 80% in the time spent building and developing composite applications.

謝謝你，Carv。正如我在上一季與各位分享的，我們開始看到客戶群的需求與優先順序出現劇烈轉變。波士頓 Yankee Group 近期針對近 500 位企業買家所做的研究顯示，在未來 12 個月內，75% 的這些組織計畫投資於導入服務導向架構所需的技術與人力配置。我們也在自家客戶群中看到同樣趨勢，並正見證從以資料庫為中心的應用程式，轉向運用整合式服務導向架構的複合式應用程式之根本性轉變，而這正與 SeeBeyond 技術能力完美契合。這項技術的下一世代已經到來，其核心在於可重複使用性，以及透過開發以服務導向為基礎的複合式應用程式來降低總持有成本。因此，歐洲領先分析師（多數來自 Butler Group）近期發表的研究顯示，使用 SeeBeyond ICAN 5 平台的組織，在建置與開發複合式應用程式所花費的時間上可節省超過 80%。

We see ICAN 5 as the future of software today and I think that some of the most dramatic examples of this can be seen from a very new and interesting business opportunities that we won in the last 90 days. St. Paul Travelers is a good example of one of these wins. This is a $22 billion revenue insurer, which was faced with a challenge of having a large variety of Legacy systems that were not very flexible. SeeBeyond will be using and deploying a service oriented architecture in the travelers insurance business environment. This was a very long and complex proof of concept that lasted about six months, where we had to prove that Legacy systems can become part of a service-oriented architecture. And we are literally able to on the mainframe integrate all the services that travelers has already built, Cobalt Code, for example, and make that speak J2EE. So this is a very significant development and I think it's illustrative of the types of major corporations that are looking to SeeBeyond to provide global service-oriented architectures. Basically what we're going to enable travelers to do is easily orchestrate business processes using these services, they claim that no other vendor had anything like SeeBeyond, and the only main competition that made it to the final stage was IBM. And IBM failed, once again, to deliver one of the world's largest companies this type of technology.

我們將 ICAN 5 視為當今軟體的未來，而我認為其中一些最具代表性的例子，來自我們在過去 90 天贏得的一些非常新且有趣的商機。St. Paul Travelers 就是其中一個成功案例。這是一家年營收 220 億美元的保險公司，面臨的挑戰是其擁有種類繁多、彈性不足的舊有系統。SeeBeyond 將在 Travelers 的保險業務環境中使用並部署服務導向架構。這是一個非常漫長且複雜的概念驗證（POC），歷時約六個月，我們必須證明舊有系統可以成為服務導向架構的一部分。而我們確實能在主機（mainframe）上整合 Travelers 已建置的所有服務，例如 COBOL 程式碼，並讓其能與 J2EE 溝通。因此這是一項非常重大的進展，我認為它也說明了那些尋求 SeeBeyond 來提供全球性服務導向架構的大型企業類型。基本上，我們將讓 Travelers 能夠使用這些服務輕鬆編排（orchestrate）業務流程；他們表示沒有其他供應商能提供像 SeeBeyond 這樣的方案，而唯一進入最後階段的主要競爭對手是 IBM。而 IBM 再一次未能向全球最大企業之一交付這類技術。

We also I think have a very interesting and exciting success story at Pegasus Solutions. Pegasus has evolved to become the critical technology backbone of the entire hotel industry powering the majority of hotel reservations around the world. They had been using Web methods for integration, and internal development. However, they decided to switch over to SeeBeyond and is one of a couple of companies that decided to do that, including Societe Generale. Key differentiators for SeeBeyond in this deal included our architecture, our high availability, our centralized management of a distributed environment and most importantly ICAN 5s ability to develop composite aps. Now, Pegasus really chose us for three real strategic initiatives. One is for our business process re-engineering and human workflow re-engineering so that they could automate the way information flowed across the dozens of systems within their own IT organization and to and from all the hotels throughout the world. So they are creating an automated view of how these transactions when you make a reservation will flow throughout all of the hotels and their systems. And a second component had to do with internal integration. They wanted to integrate the dozens of acquisitions and IT systems that they've basically acquired over the last several years. They wanted to make them all work together seamlessly. So we're doing that part of the integration within the organization.

我們在 Pegasus Solutions 也有一個非常有趣且令人振奮的成功案例。Pegasus 已演進成為整個旅館業的關鍵技術骨幹，支撐全球大多數的飯店訂房。他們原本使用 webMethods 進行整合與內部開發。然而，他們決定轉用 SeeBeyond，且是少數做出此決定的公司之一，另一家包括法國興業銀行（Société Générale）。在這筆交易中，SeeBeyond 的關鍵差異化因素包括我們的架構、高可用性、對分散式環境的集中式管理，以及最重要的——ICAN 5 開發複合式應用程式的能力。Pegasus 選擇我們主要是基於三項真正的策略性計畫。第一項是業務流程再造與人工作流程再造，使他們能自動化資訊在其 IT 組織內部數十個系統之間，以及與全球各飯店之間的流動方式。因此，他們正在建立一個自動化視圖，呈現當你進行訂房時，這些交易如何在所有飯店及其系統中流轉。第二個部分與內部整合有關。他們希望整合過去幾年透過併購所取得的數十個併購標的與 IT 系統。他們希望讓這些系統能無縫協同運作。因此，我們正在組織內部進行這部分的整合。

But the services built throughout the business process in A to A integration are going to plug and play right into a new generation of applications that they want to provide their customers. These new composite applications. So these combinations of needs, the A to A needs, the B to B needs, the BPM and human workflow needs, all together have given us the ability to create a true strategic solution for this account. We're very excited about what they're going to be doing with SeeBeyond's technology over the coming years. All of this success with our new customers and our vision for composite applications has won us some very exciting new friends and partnerships and I'd like to touch on the partner front and highlight an extremely exciting and I think important partnership which we announced a week or so ago with Sun Microsystems. This is the first announcement of a growing relationship with Sun. As the only J2EE certified pure play integration vendor, we announced collaboration, co-marketing and a bundled software offering in two areas: Portal and RFID. With this agreement, we will pour components of our technology, the ICAN 5 platform, to the Sun Java enterprise system, starting with the eGate integrator to the Sun Java system application server 8. Sun believes that it can significantly increase its portal opportunity in the near term now that it bundles integration and business process management capabilities from SeeBeyond. We're focusing on two initiatives at the beginning here, right. We're focusing on the RFID initiative, which we think is also a new and very large opportunity, and the portal initiative.

但在 A 對 A（A to A）整合的業務流程中所建置的服務，將能即插即用地導入他們希望提供給客戶的新一代應用程式。也就是這些新的複合式應用程式。因此，這些需求的組合——A 對 A 的需求、B 對 B 的需求、BPM 與人工作流程的需求——共同讓我們有能力為這個客戶建立真正具策略性的解決方案。我們對他們在未來幾年運用 SeeBeyond 技術所要做的事情感到非常興奮。我們在新客戶上的這些成功，以及我們對複合式應用程式的願景，為我們帶來了一些令人振奮的新朋友與合作夥伴；我想談談合作夥伴面向，並重點介紹一項我們在約一週前與 Sun Microsystems 宣布、極其令人振奮且我認為很重要的合作關係。這是我們與 Sun 日益深化關係的首次公告。作為唯一通過 J2EE 認證的純整合（pure play integration）供應商，我們宣布在兩個領域展開合作、共同市場推廣，以及捆綁式軟體方案：入口網站（Portal）與 RFID。依據此協議，我們將把部分技術元件——ICAN 5 平台——導入 Sun Java Enterprise System，首先是將 eGate 整合器導入 Sun Java System Application Server 8。Sun 相信，透過捆綁 SeeBeyond 的整合與業務流程管理能力，短期內可大幅提升其入口網站商機。我們一開始聚焦兩項計畫，對吧。我們聚焦於 RFID 計畫——我們認為這也是一個全新且非常龐大的機會——以及入口網站計畫。

I think that what's exciting about this is the hundreds of existing Sun portal and ap server customers will gain access to SeeBeyond's technology. And Sun expects to double the number of sales that it has of its core technology around portal and other capabilities and requirements because of this partnership. They did not offer A to A or B to B or business process management or human workflow or ETO bundled into their offering and solutions today as part of their stack while other competitors in the application server space did. We now offer that capability and I think that this is a tremendous endorsement of SeeBeyond as I think everybody will agree Sun is a technology leader and is a technology visionary. SeeBeyond has been picked amongst all the players of integration in the world to become a strategic partner of Sun's. So I think that Sun described it best probably at our users' group last week when they talked about this being a partnership that delivers the most productive SOA and composite application development and deployment environment in the world. We could not agree more and we look forward to updating you on the progress of our joint product development and new customer acquisitions with Sun in the quarters ahead. So now let me turn the call over to Barry Plaga, our CFO, who will update you on the third-quarter financial metrics, Barry.

我認為令人振奮的是，數百家既有的 Sun 入口網站與應用伺服器客戶將能取得 SeeBeyond 的技術。而 Sun 預期，因為這項合作，其在入口網站及其他能力與需求相關的核心技術銷售數量將倍增。他們目前的產品堆疊（stack）中，並未像其他應用伺服器領域的競爭對手那樣，在其方案與解決方案中捆綁提供 A 對 A、B 對 B、業務流程管理、人工作流程或 ETO。我們現在提供了這些能力，我認為這是對 SeeBeyond 的重大背書；我想大家都會同意，Sun 是技術領導者，也是技術願景者。在全球所有整合領域的參與者之中，SeeBeyond 被選為 Sun 的策略合作夥伴。因此，我認為 Sun 在上週我們的使用者大會上對此描述得最貼切：這是一項能提供全球最具生產力的 SOA 與複合式應用程式開發與部署環境的合作夥伴關係。我們完全同意，也期待在接下來的幾個季度向各位更新我們與 Sun 的聯合產品開發進展與新客戶取得情況。現在我把電話交給我們的財務長 Barry Plaga，他將向各位更新第三季的財務指標，Barry。

Thanks, Jim. Today I'm going to cover our operating results for the third quarter of 2004. Then I'm going to follow up with a discussion of our forward-looking guidance. We reported total third-quarter revenue of $41.7 million, total revenue increased 29% year-over-year from 32.4 million in the third quarter of 2003. Total license revenue for Q3 increased 60% year-over-year to $17.9 million. For the third quarter, license revenue represented 43% of total revenue, with services revenue at 24%, and maintenance revenues representing 33%. International revenue represented 43% during Q3, with Europe representing 38% of total and Asia-Pacific 5%. Our top-three license revenue verticals for Q3 were healthcare at 22%, manufacturing at 21%, and financial services also at 21%. Our other important sectors and verticals includes government at 15%, retail, 4%; energy and utilities at around 1%, and then our other category, which included our Pegasus deal, was at 16%.

謝謝，Jim。今天我將說明我們 2004 年第三季的營運結果。接著我會進一步討論我們對未來的前瞻性指引。我們第三季總營收為 4,170 萬美元，較 2003 年第三季的 3,240 萬美元年增 29%。第三季授權收入年增 60%，達 1,790 萬美元。第三季中，授權收入占總營收 43%，服務收入占 24%，維護收入占 33%。第三季國際營收占 43%，其中歐洲占總營收 38%，亞太占 5%。第三季授權收入前三大垂直產業為：醫療保健 22%、製造業 21%、金融服務亦為 21%。其他重要產業與垂直領域包括：政府 15%、零售 4%、能源與公用事業約 1%，以及其他類別（包含我們的 Pegasus 交易）為 16%。

During Q3 we booked four seven-figure license deals and we had no transaction that by itself represented 10% or more of total revenue in Q3. In terms of partners, -- partner metrics during Q3 our strategic partners influenced approximately 47% of total revenue, or excuse me, in total license revenue with EDS, Deloitte and Accenture as our top partners during Q3. Repeat business, in Q3, which is license revenue from pre-existing customers was 46%. Services revenue for the third quarter was 10.1 million, up from 9.1 million in Q2. Overall gross profit for Q3 was 74%, flat from the second quarter, and for Q3 '04, services and maintenance margin was 55%, up from 52% in the June quarter. Total operating expenses in Q3 were 29.2 million, down from 30.0 million in the second quarter. R&D expense increased slightly in Q3 to 9.7 million from 9.6 million in Q2. Sales and marketing expense decreased during Q3 from 16.1 million to 14.6 million in Q3 and G&A expense increased to 4.9 million in Q3 from 4.2 million in Q2, primarily due to Sarbanes-Oxley compliance costs and some other G&A items. On a GAAP basis, net income for the quarter ended September 30, was 1.3 million, or 1 cent per share versus a loss of 4.8 million or 6 cents per share loss in the prior year's period. At September 30, we had 84.7 million shares outstanding and 87.8 million shares were used in the calculation of diluted earnings per share.

在第三季期間，我們簽下了四筆七位數的授權合約，而且第三季沒有任何單一交易本身占第三季總營收的 10% 或以上。就合作夥伴而言——第三季的合作夥伴指標顯示，我們的策略合作夥伴影響了約占第三季總營收的 47%，呃，應該說是占總授權營收；第三季我們的主要合作夥伴為 EDS、Deloitte 與 Accenture。重複性業務方面，第三季來自既有客戶的授權營收占 46%。第三季服務營收為 1,010 萬美元，高於第二季的 910 萬美元。第三季整體毛利率為 74%，與第二季持平；而在 2004 年第三季，服務與維護的毛利率為 55%，高於 6 月季度的 52%。第三季總營業費用為 2,920 萬美元，低於第二季的 3,000 萬美元。第三季研發費用由第二季的 960 萬美元小幅增加至 970 萬美元。第三季銷售與行銷費用由 1,610 萬美元降至 1,460 萬美元；而一般及行政（G&A）費用由第二季的 420 萬美元增加至第三季的 490 萬美元，主要是因為《沙賓法案》（Sarbanes-Oxley）合規成本以及其他一些 G&A 項目。按 GAAP 基礎計算，截至 9 月 30 日止季度的淨利為 130 萬美元，或每股 1 美分；相較之下，去年同期為虧損 480 萬美元，或每股虧損 6 美分。截至 9 月 30 日，我們流通在外股數為 8,470 萬股；稀釋後每股盈餘的計算使用了 8,780 萬股。

Now looking at the balance sheet, total cash and cash equivalents at the end of the quarter were 68.7 million, 68.1 million, as of the end of the quarter, total cash increased in Q3 by approximately 3.2 million, and cash flow from operations generated during the quarter totaled 6.3 million. In addition, during Q3 these numbers are net of 2 million in cash which was used to purchase approximately 644,000 shares of SeeBeyond common stock in the open market during the quarter. Accounts receivable were 34.5 million, as of September 30, and our DSO at the end of the quarter was 76 days versus 74 days at the end of Q2. Deferred revenues increased by approximately 1.9 million during Q3 to 32 million at the end of the quarter. Now I'd like to discuss guidance. I'd also like to remind you that this guidance is forward-looking information and is subject to risks and uncertainties, including those identified in our SEC filings and those mentioned during this call. We remain optimistic about our prospects for the remainder of 2004. And looking at Q4 guidance, we need to take many factors into consideration. First, the continued ramp of our sales force. Second, the growth in our pipeline of new customer opportunities in all regions of the world, which is to a degree dependent upon the success of our newly invigorated partnership channel, and, third, the risks associated with large transaction sizes.

現在來看資產負債表，季末現金及約當現金總額為 6,870 萬美元，6,810 萬美元；截至季末，第三季現金總額約增加 320 萬美元，而本季營運活動所產生的現金流量合計為 630 萬美元。此外，第三季這些數字已扣除 200 萬美元現金，該筆現金用於本季在公開市場回購約 644,000 股 SeeBeyond 普通股。截至 9 月 30 日，應收帳款為 3,450 萬美元；季末應收帳款週轉天數（DSO）為 76 天，對比第二季季末的 74 天。遞延收入在第三季增加約 190 萬美元，季末達到 3,200 萬美元。接下來我想討論財測指引。我也想提醒各位，這些指引屬於前瞻性資訊，並受風險與不確定性影響，包括我們向 SEC 提交文件中所識別者，以及本次電話會議中提及者。我們對 2004 年剩餘期間的前景仍保持樂觀。而在檢視第四季指引時，我們需要考量許多因素。第一，銷售團隊持續擴編與爬坡。第二，我們在全球各區域新客戶機會管線的成長，這在一定程度上取決於我們重新強化的合作夥伴通路是否成功；第三，與大型交易金額相關的風險。

For Q4, we expect total revenue to be in the range of approximately 41 to 44 million. On the expense side, we expect expenses to increase in Q4 from Q3 as a result of sales accelerators and marketing costs related to our annual user conference, which was held last week. Accordingly, we expect GAAP earnings per share to be in the range of 0 cents or break-even to 2 cents for the fourth quarter of 2004. Throughout the year we've really focused on controlling expenses and this is going to show in the dramatic reduction in our loss for the year we've been shooting for potential break-even for the entire year in 2004. With that -- with that, I'd like to open the call now to questions.

就第四季而言，我們預期總營收約落在 4,100 萬至 4,400 萬美元之間。在費用方面，由於銷售加速獎勵以及與我們上週舉行的年度使用者大會相關的行銷成本，我們預期第四季費用將較第三季增加。因此，我們預期 2004 年第四季 GAAP 每股盈餘將介於 0 美分（或損益兩平）至 2 美分之間。整個年度我們確實專注於費用控管，這將反映在全年虧損的大幅縮減；我們一直以 2004 年全年達到可能損益兩平為目標。那麼——那麼，現在我想開放電話會議進入提問。

Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you have a question, you'll need to push star, then one on your touchtone phone. If you wish to be removed from the queue, please press the pound sign or the hash key. If you are using a speakerphone, you may need to pick up the handset first. Once again, if there are any questions, please press star, then one on your touch-tone phone. Thank you. Our first question comes from David Rudow from Piper Jaffray. Please go ahead. Sir, if you're on a speakerphone, please pick up your handset.

謝謝。我們現在開始問答環節。如果您有問題，請在您的按鍵式電話上按星號鍵，然後按 1。如果您希望退出排隊，請按井號鍵或 # 鍵。如果您使用免持聽筒，可能需要先拿起話筒。再次提醒，如有任何問題，請在您的按鍵式電話上按星號鍵，然後按 1。謝謝。我們的第一個問題來自 Piper Jaffray 的 David Rudow。請開始。先生，如果您使用免持聽筒，請拿起話筒。

I'm here. Sorry, afternoon, how are you doing?

我在。抱歉，下午好，你們近來如何？

Hi David.

嗨，David。

In terms of the Sun relationship. When do you expect revenues to begin to flow from that? My understanding is Portal will come first and RFID sometime later as you develop that r together?

關於與 Sun 的合作關係。你們預期何時開始會有相關營收進來？我的理解是 Portal 會先，RFID 則會在你們一起開發之後的某個時間點才會出現？

Yeah, that's our -- you know, basic premise right now, is we're gonna -- you know, work on those Ports and work on those composite applications together. I would say that, you know, the very near term like, you know, one or two quarter out revenue opportunity is, very limited on that front, as that, you know, relationship builds. However, you know, on top of that relationship and looking at overall deal opportunities we are starting to get some early leads and opportunities around the world as a result of the Sun relationship, so our sales forces are already starting to work together. And I believe that, you know, the RFID, you know, will come -- you know, probably in 12 to 18 months, you know, 9 to 18 months as that revenue opportunity in Portal is a little more imminent than that in that they are already shipping their own Portal products and we hope to augment those very quickly here.

是的，這就是我們——你知道——目前的基本前提：我們會——你知道——一起做那些 Port（連接埠/介面）並共同開發那些複合式應用。我會說，你知道，短期內例如一到兩個季度之後的營收機會，在這方面非常有限，因為——你知道——這段關係還在建立中。不過，你知道，在這段合作關係之上，從整體交易機會來看，我們已經因為與 Sun 的關係在全球開始獲得一些早期線索與機會，所以我們的銷售團隊已經開始協同合作。而我相信，你知道，RFID——你知道——會在——你知道——大概 12 到 18 個月，或 9 到 18 個月後出現；因為 Portal 的營收機會相對更迫近一些，因為他們已經在出貨自家的 Portal 產品，而我們希望能在這裡很快加以強化。

And then with the relationship, does that lock you out of doing similar deals with other vendors out there in the ap server space?

那麼在這段合作關係下，是否會讓你們無法再與其他應用伺服器（ap server）領域的供應商做類似的合作案？

Yeah, this is Jim. And the answer's no. It does not. At Travelers, for example, we had a demonstrate running on the IBM application server stack. So -- so we are already supportive of a couple of ap server stacks. But what this opportunity with Sun does, is it gives us a distribution channel where one of the three largest, you know, server companies in the world has decided to really partner very closely with SeeBeyond. And we did not have that distribution mechanism again, so their hundred thousand plus customers now have access to and their sales organization has access to and gets paid on bringing this type of business into Sun and SeeBeyond.

是的，我是 Jim。答案是否定的。不會。例如在 Travelers，我們有一個示範是在 IBM 應用伺服器堆疊上運行。所以——所以我們已經支援幾個應用伺服器堆疊。但與 Sun 的這個機會所帶來的是一個分銷通路：全球三大——你知道——伺服器公司之一決定與 SeeBeyond 非常緊密地合作。而我們之前並沒有這樣的分銷機制，所以他們十萬名以上的客戶現在可以接觸到這些方案；他們的銷售組織也能接觸到，並且在把這類業務帶進 Sun 與 SeeBeyond 時能獲得報酬。

And then when -- when a -- when Sun sells something, you guys would then collect the maintenance on that as well, and maybe professional services, too, right?

然後當——當——當 Sun 賣出某樣東西時，你們也會就那個收取維護費，可能還有專業服務費，對吧？

That's correct. There could be a maintenance component, there -- services component, a training component, most importantly, a license component.

沒錯。可能會有維護的部分、也——服務的部分、訓練的部分，而最重要的是授權的部分。

There is a license component to it?

這裡面有授權的部分？

Absolutely, potentially there is a license component.

絕對有，可能會有授權的部分。

Okay, okay. Excellent. And then how are customers receiving the SOA message when you go out there and sell to them?

好，好。很好。那你們出去向客戶銷售時，客戶對 SOA 訊息的接受度如何？

I think that from my perspective, and Carv you might want to jump in here, too. The message is being received loud and clear, that this is the future of how software itself will be built. Companies like Travelers or Pegasus take some time to -- to really look at this because it's something they've never seen before where you take their Legacy environments and make them services. You take their current environments and -- or new environments and make them become services and then you orchestrate the way all these services work together in a business processing, and using a business processor human workflow and I think it's indicative of again, the types of companies that we are signing, that this is striking a certain chord in the marketplace. I mean when Dunn and Bradstreet, the world's largest company in its industry, Travelers, one of the world's largest insurance companies in its industry. When the Pegasus, the worlds largest company in the hotel reservation industry. And quite a few others, that were, you know, Fortune 5 and a dozen different verticals that select SeeBeyond, pick us it's because of our demonstrated capabilities in this particular area. And I think they're starting small is what we're seeing. A lot of them are hesitant to go spend 5, 6 million on deploying this right up-front. But once they start to roll this out, there's tremendous revenue potential in these accounts going forward, meaning generally these are not unlimited all-you-can-eat deployments forever, like other companies have to sell. These are very limited deployments and there's lots of future revenue opportunity at these accounts.

我想以我的角度來看，Carv 你也可以補充一下。這個訊息被非常清楚、非常明確地接收：這就是未來軟體本身將如何被建構。像 Travelers 或 Pegasus 這樣的公司需要一些時間——去真正研究這件事，因為這是他們以前從未見過的：把他們的舊有（Legacy）環境變成服務。把他們現有的環境——或新的環境——變成服務，然後你再去編排所有這些服務如何在一個業務流程中協同運作，並使用業務處理器的人工作流程；我認為這也再次反映在我們正在簽下的公司類型上，顯示這在市場上引起了某種共鳴。我的意思是，當 Dun & Bradstreet——全球在其產業中規模最大的公司——Travelers——全球在其產業中規模最大的保險公司之一——當 Pegasus——全球在飯店訂房產業中規模最大的公司——以及其他不少公司，也就是你知道的，財富 5 百強、橫跨十幾個不同垂直領域的公司選擇 SeeBeyond、選擇我們，是因為我們在這個特定領域展現出的能力。而我想我們看到的是，他們一開始都從小規模開始。很多人對於一開始就花 500 萬、600 萬去部署這個方案仍然猶豫。但一旦他們開始推展，這些客戶帳戶未來的營收潛力非常可觀；也就是說，一般而言，這些並不是像其他公司賣的那種無上限、吃到飽式的永久部署。這些是非常有限的部署，而在這些帳戶上有很多未來營收機會。

If you look at a Travelers for them to standardize on CBN across the entire enterprise, how long would it take to roll out that type of a relationship?

如果以 Travelers 來看，他們要在整個企業內全面標準化採用 CBN，推展這種合作關係需要多久？

I think Carv, you want to jump in there?

我想 Carv，你要不要補充一下？

I think that's a, you know, it's a good question but I think really more importantly it's, we are now having the opportunity to collaborate with a company like Travelers on this level for this type of relationship. It's obviously a very complex enterprise and organization and, you know, we fully expect to have a long-term relationship as we go down this path in their various business units.

我想這是個——你知道——好問題，但我認為更重要的是，我們現在有機會在這個層級上，與像 Travelers 這樣的公司就這類合作關係進行協作。這顯然是一個非常複雜的企業與組織，而且——你知道——我們完全預期，隨著我們在他們各個事業單位沿著這條路走下去，會建立一段長期的合作關係。

Another good example is Emerson. Emerson Electric again is standardized on us this last quarter globally. A very big company. And what they're planning on doing is rolling this out over the course of years. Their first project's almost to a T by the way are expected to be live and in production in three to six months. But, these are just the first rounds of connections and do not represent ultimately what they think. You know, we're talking about some of these companies like Emerson and Pegasus literally having thousands of connections that they will need to create using a service oriented architecture and we have and I think as far as I know we're one of the only Companies, if not the only Company in the world that's, you know, expecting to handle 60 or 70 billion transactions at a single customer per year. And, you know, these are in some cases multiyear deployments and in some cases will be multimonth deployments, but they won't, you know, be deployments that take, you know, five years to get into production. All of these sites will have things in production in 90 to 180 days.

另一個很好的例子是 Emerson。Emerson Electric 在上一季也在全球範圍內標準化採用我們的方案。這是一家非常大的公司。而他們計畫在數年的時間裡逐步推展。順帶一提，他們的第一個專案幾乎完全按計畫，預期在三到六個月內上線並投入正式運作。但是，這些只是第一輪的連接，並不代表他們最終所設想的全貌。你知道，我們談到像 Emerson 和 Pegasus 這些公司，實際上他們將需要建立成千上萬個連接，並使用服務導向架構；而我們——據我所知——是全球少數公司之一，甚至可能是唯一一家，預期能在單一客戶每年處理 600 億或 700 億筆交易。而且——你知道——這些在某些情況下是多年期的部署，在某些情況下會是多月期的部署，但它們不會——你知道——是那種需要——你知道——五年才進入正式生產環境的部署。所有這些站點都會在 90 到 180 天內有東西進入生產環境。

Okay. And then for guidance, Barry, on Q4? What are your assumptions? I know you talked about the sales force. What are your overall assumptions on IT spending in Q4?

好。那關於第四季的指引，Barry？你的假設是什麼？我知道你談到了銷售團隊。你對第四季 IT 支出的整體假設是什麼？

We're -- you know, we're optimistic that it's gonna, you know, remain as healthy as it has been and hopefully improve a bit here in the Q4. We're not hearing any, you know, leading indicators of that flushing sound, you know, in terms of, you know, budget, year-end budget spends. But it's still only October and usually you start getting that in -- in November and things tend to close in early December. So I don't think it'll be as robust as it was last year because it was pretty healthy but I'm -- you know, we think there is some potential for some of that to fall in this quarter.

我們——你知道——樂觀地認為它會——你知道——維持像目前一樣健康，並希望在第四季能稍微改善一些。我們沒有聽到任何——你知道——領先指標顯示會出現那種「沖水聲」——你知道——就年末預算支出而言。但現在才十月，通常你會在——在十一月開始感受到，然後事情往往在十二月初結案。所以我不認為會像去年那麼強勁，因為去年相當健康，但我——你知道——我們認為其中有一些可能會落在本季。

And then finally just a -- another question on the accrued expenses jumped up by, what, 2 million?

最後再問一個——關於應計費用增加了，大概 200 萬？

Yeah. I think that's seasonal, you know, commissions and, you know, bonus programs and things like that.

對。我想那是季節性的——你知道——佣金，以及——你知道——獎金計畫之類的東西。

Okay. Great. Thank you.

好。很好。謝謝。

Thank you. Once again, if you have any questions or comments, please press star, then one on your touch-tone phone. Thank you. Our question comes from Ian Murray from NOM LLC. Please go ahead.

謝謝。再次提醒，如果您有任何問題或意見，請在您的按鍵式電話上按星號，然後按 1。謝謝。接下來的提問來自 NOM LLC 的 Ian Murray。請開始。

Hi. I'd like to follow up on the guidance. Barry, I -- could you go over again what your thinking is behind it? As I look over your fourth quarter sequential license revenue growth over the last four years, it's 56%,14, 38, and 82%. And here you're essentially talking about flat. Now, given the restructuring of the sales force and -- and all the positive changes that have taken place, I'm wondering why we shouldn't be expecting something a little bit better than what you've guided to, and then I'll follow up.

嗨。我想跟進一下指引。Barry，我——你能再說一次你背後的思考是什麼嗎？我看你們過去四年第四季授權營收的季增率分別是 56%、14%、38% 和 82%。而這次你基本上是在談持平。那麼，考量到銷售團隊的重整以及——以及所有已經發生的正面改變，我想知道為什麼我們不應該期待比你們所給的指引更好一些，然後我再追問。

Yeah. I think, you know, if you look at, you know, last year's Q3 to Q4 jump was pretty marked and pretty significant and that was due to the launch of ICAN 5.0 in that fourth quarter so that saw pretty good increase due to, you know, some pent-up demand. I think we've got a few things to look at here when we look at, you know, what our guidance should be for Q4, you know, I think our primary, you know, goal and objective when we set out this year was to really focus on profitability and controlling expenses. We've done a very good job of that. I think we're, you know, ahead of the expense plan this year, maybe perhaps at the risk of, you know, not growing the sales force as fast as we should have. So that's had an impact I'd say on the -- you know, the North American sales force is growing and being as ramped as we want it on the growth of the pipeline, etc. Overall, though, we've seen a significant and dramatic increase in the overall sales price of our products as 5.0s come out. I think without ICAN 5.0 we wouldn't be seeing, you know, a sequential quarterly increase in our ASPs that we've seen over the last four quarters. But overall, we've -- I think our overall guiding principle here is to remain conservative, focus on cost control, and grow license revenue while, you know, controlling costs and also trying to somewhat grow the sales force. So that's a long way of saying now that we've got, you know, a big focus on, you know, what the risk factors are for Q4. We want to be conservative here as we enter the quarter because it's -- it does feel different than it did last year in terms of, you know, that budget flush phenomena that's been happening over the last few years. I think budgets got spent a little more evenly over the year this year than they were last year. And, you know, we're just not trying to put our -- our growth rate out there on the limb here this late in the year. We want to close out with a -- with a good, -- good momentum and really focus in on, you know, some good new customer names, our overall deal sizes, you know, focusing on that continuing to grow and, you know, finishing the quarter -- finishing the quarter profitably and, you know, trying to hit that metric for the, you know, the whole year.

是的。我認為，你知道，如果你回頭看，去年第三季到第四季的跳升相當明顯、也相當顯著，那是因為我們在第四季推出了 ICAN 5.0，因此在一些累積需求（pent-up demand）的帶動下，出現了相當不錯的成長。我想在我們思考第四季該給出什麼樣的指引時，有幾件事需要一起看；你知道，我們今年一開始設定的主要目標與目的，確實是聚焦在獲利能力與費用控管。我們在這方面做得非常好。我想我們今年的費用支出，整體上是優於費用計畫的，或許也因此承擔了一點風險：我們的銷售團隊擴編速度可能沒有應有的那麼快。所以我會說，這對——你知道，北美銷售團隊的成長與我們希望的到位（ramped）程度，以及對管線成長等，都造成了一些影響。不過整體而言，隨著 5.0 產品推出，我們看到產品整體售價出現顯著且劇烈的提升。我認為如果沒有 ICAN 5.0，我們不會看到過去四個季度所呈現的 ASP（平均銷售價格）逐季上升。但總體來說——我想我們在這裡的整體指導原則是保持保守、專注成本控管，在控制成本的同時成長授權（license）營收，並且也嘗試在一定程度上擴充銷售團隊。所以說了這麼多，主要是想表達：我們現在非常聚焦第四季有哪些風險因素。我們希望在進入本季時採取保守態度，因為——就你知道，與去年相比，感覺確實不同，尤其是過去幾年一直出現的那種「年底預算花完（budget flush）」現象。我認為今年的預算支出比去年更平均地分散在全年。而且，你知道，我們不想在今年這麼晚的時點，把我們的成長率押得太冒險。我們希望以——以良好的、——良好的動能收尾，並真正聚焦在一些優質的新客戶名稱、我們整體交易規模，專注讓它持續成長，並且在本季結束時——在本季結束時維持獲利，同時也努力達成你知道、全年的那個指標。

So it's based on what the pipeline looks like now as well as the overall IT spending environment?

所以這是基於目前的管線狀況，以及整體 IT 支出環境來判斷的？

They all work together, I think.

我想這些因素是相互作用的。

And they -- on the cost side --

而且他們——在成本面——

We do have a number of new reps that we brought on board and, you know, we don't like to -- we don't like to put the rope around their neck yet.

我們確實新招了一些業務代表，你知道，我們也不想——我們也不想現在就把繩子套在他們脖子上。

Right. What was the ASP last quarter? I missed that.

了解。上季的 ASP 是多少？我漏聽了。

We didn't talk about it but -- yet but it's -- you know, it was over our 500,000, which we've been getting to the stronger part -- part of our 4 to 5 hundred K range and we broke through that this past quarter in our -- in our commercial business. That's a big -- I think a big growth factor for us. I think, you know, a year ago or five quarters ago, you know, it was under 300,000, so it's doubled.

我們還沒談到——至少剛才還沒談，但——你知道，它超過了 500,000；我們原本一直在 40 萬到 50 萬美元區間的較強勢段落——那個區間，而我們在上一季於商業業務（commercial business）中突破了那個水準。我認為那對我們來說是一個很——我想是一個很大的成長因素。我想，你知道，一年前或五個季度前，它還不到 300,000，所以等於翻倍了。

Let me just -- this is Jim. Let me just emphasize one thing I think Carv's mentioned earlier on the call and certainly Barry and I both have talked about. Which is our emphasis around profitability. I think, you know, 20 or 30% growth in a year is a good number to target and achieve in this business climate. I think it's pretty rare that other companies are achieving that organically. And, the second most-important component is one of profitability. I think, you know, I'd rather see us have a very highly productive and smaller sales organization because that's much more accretive to our EPS, than, you know, to invest ahead of the curve. So I think we're really focused on that. And just increasing our margin growth. I mean, I'd like to see a double-digit evolution to have our margin growth and I think that's something that, you know, we just have to keep an eye on our expenses to make sure that that is going to happen one way or another.

我補充一下——我是 Jim。我想強調一點，我認為 Carv 先前在電話會議中提過，而且 Barry 和我也都談過。那就是我們對獲利能力的重視。我認為，在目前這種商業環境下，一年 20% 到 30% 的成長，是一個很好的目標，也是一個值得達成的數字。我想很少有其他公司能夠靠內生成長（organically）做到這樣。而第二個最重要的組成要素，就是獲利。我想，你知道，我寧可看到我們擁有一個規模較小但生產力非常高的銷售組織，因為那對我們的 EPS（每股盈餘）更具增益（accretive），而不是你知道、超前投入。所以我想我們真的很專注在這點。以及提升我們的毛利率成長。我的意思是，我希望看到毛利率成長有雙位數的提升（evolution），我認為這是我們必須持續關注費用，確保無論如何都能發生的一件事。

Yeah. Now, you've done a very good job on expenses when I look at what the expectation was. For the sales and marketing Q4, what -- the user group, should I assume that's a million dollars increase for the whole --

是的。我看你們在費用控制上做得非常好，對照原先的預期。第四季的銷售與行銷費用，那個——使用者大會（user group），我是否可以假設整體會增加 100 萬美元——

We're very frugal here. Probably be about $500,000 as an increase in that line item.

我們這裡非常節省。那個科目增加大概會是 50 萬美元左右。

Okay. And the G&A kicked up a bit, is that Sarbanes-Oxley-type-related stuff.

好的。那 G&A（一般及行政費用）有點上升，是因為《薩班斯—奧克斯利法案》（Sarbanes-Oxley）相關的事情嗎？

Yeah. And that should be alleviated here in the fourth quarter somewhat.

是的。而且到第四季應該會在某種程度上緩解。

So that might come down a bit.

所以可能會降一點。

Yeah.

是的。

Okay. Excellent. Nice quarter.

好的。非常好。這一季表現不錯。

Thanks, Ian.

謝謝你，Ian。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thank you. Our next question comes from John Difucci from Bear Stearns. Please go ahead.

謝謝。下一個問題來自 Bear Stearns 的 John Difucci。請開始。

Yes, thanks. My question has to do with competition in the ICAN suite and how that -- that's playing into the market. Jim, I think you mentioned both IBM and WebMethods. But now you go out with your suite of products, which I guess IBM has it all. And the others, WebMethods and Tibco have sort of a similar but a different approach. I'm just curious, who -- are you seeing other than IBM anyone any more or any less and, with the ICAN Suite, what product areas do you lead with? Like, what are the areas that really get you in the door?

是的，謝謝。我的問題與 ICAN 套件的競爭有關，以及這——這如何影響市場。Jim，我想你提到了 IBM 和 WebMethods。但現在你們推出自己的產品套件，我猜 IBM 是全都有。而其他像 WebMethods 和 Tibco 則是某種程度類似、但採取不同的方法。我只是好奇，除了 IBM 之外，你們現在看到其他競爭對手是更多還是更少？另外，對於 ICAN Suite，你們通常以哪些產品領域作為切入點？例如，哪些領域真的能讓你們敲開客戶大門？

Carv, you want to talk a little bit about competitive front?

Carv，你要不要談一下競爭面的情況？

Yeah, I think, you know, across -- across all industries, you know, the competitor is IBM. I mean, that's who we're in the finals with on just about every deal. And then depending on industries, obviously we're running into Tibco or Web and then really beyond that we don't -- we don't run into a lot of the other vendors. I mean, we're seeing obviously SAP out there, particularly in Europe. But we have a very good track record of wins against SAP in Europe. And we -- we, you know, a couple times a quarter we'll see Microsoft typically early on in an evaluation cycle.

好的，我想，你知道，橫跨——橫跨所有產業，你知道，競爭對手就是 IBM。我的意思是，我們幾乎每一筆交易到最後決選（finals）時，對上的都是他們。然後依不同產業而定，顯然我們也會遇到 Tibco 或 Web（WebMethods），再往下其實我們——我們不太會遇到其他供應商。我的意思是，我們當然也看到 SAP，特別是在歐洲。但我們在歐洲對上 SAP 的勝率紀錄非常好。而且我們——我們，你知道，通常每季會有幾次在評估流程早期看到 Microsoft。

Carv, is SAP, are they going after deals outside of the SAP Suite at this point with Net Weaver.

Carv，SAP 是不是在這個時間點，透過 Net Weaver 去爭取 SAP Suite 以外的案子？

Not really. I think it's more of a marketing type approach right now. They're not the only ERP or CR vendors that's taking that text approach. But there's a lot of noise in the SOA marketplace out there by a variety of vendors and they're --

不太是。我認為目前比較像是一種行銷式的做法。採用那種做法的也不只他們這些 ERP 或 CR 供應商。但 SOA 市場裡各家供應商的雜音很多，而他們——

Yeah. I mean SAP -- this is Jim. SAP's Net Weaver is very early out. Especially around the integration component. That's a generation 1 or 2 product versus our generation 5 technology platform. So they're not a serious threat from the integration perspective. We'd see absolutely no BEA out there. And I'd say that really it's IBM. I mean, when we go to Travelers, when we go to the J.P. Morgan chase's, when we go to these very large corporations. Other than big SAP shops, which is I think where SAP shows up, you know, it's -- some of these $10 billion plus companies that are SAP, big SAP shops, they've all taken a look at SAP's product and I'm excited, in fact I spoke to one CIO today of a $12 billion company and he basically said, you know, we've had SAP in here for the last nine months and it doesn't work. So we're not gonna use their integration products and we're -- we're gonna move forward with yourselves. So I think that's what we're seeing from SAP. You know, and Tibco's got its place in the financial services and the telephony industry which are big areas. But grow through acquisitions is a strategy and they're continuing to acquire their market share and I think from a -- from the perspective of true organic products though they do not have that. And in fact they've had to buy other companies to compete effectively with -- in the business processing human workflow area. So I think that, again, IBM is the company we see -- they do not offer everything, they do not offer a working service oriented architecture that is open and portable. We think that the Sun/SeeBeyond combination, by the way, not only is unique but offers a winning competitive advantage, meaning, you know, we have the A to A, the B to B, the ETL. We've got the BPM and human workflow capabilities and a composite ap capabilities. IBM talks about some of these, has acquired some of these, and partners with some of these, but it doesn't have all of those working together. And, IBM -- and -- again some of the ap server technology of Sun's, you know, there's no integration between their own ap server and their integration products I guess is what I'm saying, whereas we and Sun will have very close integration through J2EE.

是的。我是 Jim。SAP 的 Net Weaver 還非常早期。尤其是在整合元件方面。那是第 1 或第 2 代的產品，相較之下我們是第 5 代的技術平台。所以從整合的角度來看，他們並不是嚴重的威脅。我們在外面完全看不到 BEA。而我會說真正的對手其實是 IBM。我的意思是，當我們去 Travelers、去 J.P.Morgan Chase，去這些非常大型的企業時。除了大型 SAP 用戶（我想 SAP 主要就是在那裡出現），你知道，就是——一些營收超過 100 億美元、以 SAP 為主的大型公司，他們都看過 SAP 的產品；而我其實很振奮，我今天跟一家 120 億美元公司的 CIO 談過，他基本上說，你知道，SAP 過去九個月一直在我們這裡，但它行不通。所以我們不會用他們的整合產品，而我們——我們會繼續跟你們合作往前走。所以我認為這就是我們從 SAP 看到的情況。你知道，Tibco 在金融服務與電信產業有其位置，這些都是很大的領域。但透過併購來成長是一種策略，他們持續透過收購來取得市占；而我認為從——從真正的有機產品角度來看，他們並沒有那個。事實上，他們必須買其他公司，才能在——在業務流程與人工作流程（human workflow）領域有效競爭。所以我認為，再次強調，我們看到的公司是 IBM——他們不是什麼都有，他們也沒有提供一個可運作、開放且可攜的服務導向架構。我們認為 Sun/SeeBeyond 的組合，順帶一提，不僅獨特，還提供了致勝的競爭優勢；也就是說，你知道，我們有 A to A、B to B、ETL。我們有 BPM 與人工作流程能力，以及複合式應用（composite ap）能力。IBM 談到其中一些，也收購了其中一些，並與其中一些合作，但它沒有把這些全部整合在一起運作。而且，IBM——以及——再說一次，Sun 的一些 ap 伺服器技術，你知道，我想說的是，他們自家的 ap 伺服器與他們的整合產品之間沒有整合；而我們與 Sun 將透過 J2EE 進行非常緊密的整合。

But Jim is it fair to say that, your traditional EAI products are really what gets you in the door right now. I mean, I know there's -- there's an evolution going on, with your approach with the suite approach. But the products that get you in the door, is it -- is it still your bread and butter the eGate type products.

但 Jim，是否可以說，你們傳統的 EAI 產品目前才是真正讓你們打進客戶的敲門磚？我的意思是，我知道——你們以套件方式的做法正在演進。但能讓你們進門的產品，是不是——是不是仍然以 eGate 這類產品作為你們的主力？

Carv, I mean --

Carv，我的意思是——

I mean we have a lot of new customers, too.

我的意思是我們也有很多新客戶。

Really--

確實——

You know, packed out to horizons and the whole -- you know, the thread of the discussion on this composite application platform and ICAN were, you know, cut through not only all the main presentations but all the breakouts and side bars and that's really what, you know, is attracting. ICAN is what's getting us into these customers and it's also rejuvenating opportunities within our install base, where we already have existing, you know, EAI.

你知道，延伸到更長遠的視野，以及——你知道，這場討論中關於複合式應用平台與 ICAN 的主軸，你知道，不只貫穿所有主要簡報，也貫穿所有分場與旁邊的討論；而那才是，你知道，正在吸引人的地方。ICAN 正在把我們帶進這些客戶，同時也在我們既有的安裝基礎中重新點燃機會，因為我們那裡已經有既有的，你知道，EAI。

Yeah. I think it's an interesting statistic. What was it we were talking about in terms of the number of companies that are purchasing ICAN. That are purchasing the entire stack as opposed to purchasing pieces. Like 50-60% or something like that.

是的。我覺得有個統計數字很有意思。我們剛才在談的是什麼——就購買 ICAN 的公司數量而言。是購買整個堆疊（entire stack），而不是只買其中幾個部分。像是 50–60% 之類的？

At least.

至少。

At least. So I think that answers your question. These deals, Pegasus and Travelers, are generally the entire stack, or six out of, you know, eight products or something like that.

至少。所以我想這回答了你的問題。這些案子，Pegasus 和 Travelers，通常是整個堆疊，或是八個產品裡買了六個之類的。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you. Again if you have any questions or comments, please press star one.

謝謝。再次提醒，如果您有任何問題或意見，請按星號一。

Okay. Well, I would like to thank everybody for their questions. In conclusion, our focus is on profitability. We believe that we have product differentiation today and we expect to continue to have that product differentiation by making the investments we currently are and will be making in products. We are very focused on of course growing the revenue, but not at margin expense. We expect to work very diligently to improve our margin. So with that, I'd like to thank everyone for again participating in today's call and we look forward to talking to you all again next quarter.

好的。那麼，我想感謝大家的提問。總結來說，我們的重點在於獲利能力。我們相信我們目前具備產品差異化，並且預期透過我們目前正在進行、也將持續進行的產品投資，繼續維持這種產品差異化。我們當然非常專注於營收成長，但不會以犧牲利潤率為代價。我們預期會非常努力地改善我們的利潤率。因此，藉此機會，我想再次感謝各位參與今天的電話會議，我們期待在下個季度再次與各位交流。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the SeeBeyond actual third-quarter results conference call. You may all disconnect and thank you for participating.

謝謝。各位女士先生，SeeBeyond 實際第三季業績電話會議到此結束。各位可以掛線，感謝您的參與。