NatWest Group PLC (NWG) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. As usual, I'll start with a brief introduction before Katie takes you through the financial performance, and then we'll open it up for questions. Against the background of heightened global economic uncertainty, we continue to focus on advancing our strategy through three key priorities: disciplined growth; bank-wide simplification; and active balance sheet and risk management.

早安，感謝您今天加入我們。像往常一樣，在凱蒂向大家介紹財務表現之前，我會先做一個簡短的介紹，然後我們會開始提問。在全球經濟不確定性加劇的背景下，我們繼續致力於透過三個關鍵優先事項來推動我們的策略：有紀律的成長；全行簡化；積極的資產負債表和風險管理。

Examples of our recent progress include the completion of our Sainsbury's Bank transaction yesterday, which adds around 1 million new customer accounts with about GBP2.5 billion of unsecured lending and GBP2.7 billion of savings. We launched a new mortgage enabling first-time buyers to combine incomes with a family member or friend, while retaining independent ownership to help them get on the property ladder sooner.

我們最近的進展包括昨天完成的 Sainsbury's Bank 交易，該交易增加了約 100 萬個新客戶帳戶，無擔保貸款約 25 億英鎊，儲蓄約 27 億英鎊。我們推出了一種新的抵押貸款，使首次購房者能夠與家人或朋友合併收入，同時保留獨立所有權，以幫助他們更快地擁有房產。

In business banking, we marked the 10th anniversary of our Accelerator program, which has helped to grow and scale 10,000 small businesses across the UK by setting a new ambition to support a further 10,000 businesses in 2025. We also upgraded our ambition to lend GBP7.5 billion to the UK social housing sector between 2024 and 2026 and announced that we're deploying GBP500 million to retrofit social housing stock supported by financial guarantee from the National Wealth Fund.

在商業銀行業務方面，我們迎來了加速器計畫推出十週年，該計畫設立了到 2025 年再支持 10,000 家企業的新目標，幫助英國 10,000 家小型企業發展壯大。我們還提高了在 2024 年至 2026 年期間向英國社會住房部門貸款 75 億英鎊的目標，並宣布我們將部署 5 億英鎊用於改造由國家財富基金提供財政擔保的社會住房存量。

On bank-wide simplification, we are the first UK headquartered bank to collaborate with OpenAI in order to meet customer needs faster and increase productivity. And as we simplify the organization, we are moving our private banking investment operations from Switzerland to the UK and relocating their data and technology teams to the UK and India. On active balance sheet and risk management, we made further progress optimizing RWAs in the quarter. And in an uncertain environment, our prudent risk management gives us a competitive advantage.

在銀行範圍的簡化方面，我們是第一家與 OpenAI 合作的英國總部銀行，旨在更快地滿足客戶需求並提高生產力。隨著我們簡化組織結構，我們將把私人銀行投資業務從瑞士遷至英國，並將其數據和技術團隊遷至英國和印度。在積極的資產負債表和風險管理方面，我們在本季在優化風險加權資產方面取得了進一步進展。在不確定的環境中，我們審慎的風險管理為我們帶來了競爭優勢。

So let's turn to the financial headlines for the first quarter. We made a strong start to the year. Customer lending grew 0.9% to GBP375 billion. Customer deposits increased 0.5% to GBP433 billion with growth in both Retail Banking and Commercial and Institutional. Assets under management and administration of GBP48.5 billion, included net AUM inflows in the quarter of GBP0.8 billion. We also provided GBP8 billion of climate and sustainable funding and financing, bringing the total to GBP101 billion since July 2021, exceeding our GBP100 billion 2025 target.

讓我們來看看第一季的財經頭條。我們今年有一個好的開始。客戶貸款成長 0.9%，達到 3,750 億英鎊。客戶存款增加 0.5% 至 4,330 億英鎊，零售銀行業務和商業及機構業務均成長。管理和執行的資產為 485 億英鎊，其中本季淨 AUM 流入為 8 億英鎊。我們還提供了80億英鎊的氣候和永續資金和融資，使自2021年7月以來的總額達到1010億英鎊，超過了我們2025年1000億英鎊的目標。

This activity clearly underpins our financial performance. Income increased 15.8% year-on-year to GBP4 billion and costs were GBP1.9 billion, resulting in operating profit of GBP1.8 billion and attributable profit of GBP1.3 billion. Our return on tangible equity was 18.5%, driving strong capital generation of 49 basis points before shareholder distributions. Earnings per share were up 48% to 15.5p and tangible net asset value per share was 347p, up 15% year-on-year.

這項活動顯然支撐了我們的財務表現。營收年增15.8%至40億英鎊，成本為19億英鎊，營業利潤為18億英鎊，應占利潤為13億英鎊。我們的有形權益回報率為 18.5%，在股東分配前推動了 49 個基點的強勁資本產生。每股盈餘成長 48% 至 15.5 便士，每股有形淨資產價值為 347 便士，較去年同期成長 15%。

We continue to maintain a strong balance sheet with a CET1 ratio of 13.8%, and the government shareholding has reduced to less than 2%, in line with the stated intention to exit fully by 2025, '26. Given the strength of the first quarter, we are updating our 2025 guidance. We now expect to be at the upper end of the range for both income and returns.

我們繼續保持強勁的資產負債表，CET1 比率為 13.8%，政府持股比例已降至 2% 以下，符合 2025 年或 2026 年完全退出的既定意圖。鑑於第一季的強勁表現，我們正在更新 2025 年的指引。我們現在預計收入和回報都將處於區間的上限。

And with that, I'll now hand over to Katie.

現在我將把時間交給凱蒂。

Thank you, Paul. I'll start with our performance for the first quarter using the fourth quarter as a comparator. Income, excluding all notable items, was up 2.1% at GBP4 billion. Operating expenses were 12.7% lower at GBP2 billion, and the impairment charge was GBP189 million or 19 basis points of loans. Taking this together, we've delivered operating profit before tax of GBP1.8 billion. Profit attributable to ordinary shareholders was GBP1.3 billion and return on tangible equity was 18.5%.

謝謝你，保羅。我將從第一季的表現開始，並以第四季作為比較。不包括所有值得注意的項目，收入成長了 2.1%，達到 40 億英鎊。營運費用下降 12.7% 至 20 億英鎊，減損費用為 1.89 億英鎊或貸款的 19 個基點。綜合以上各項，我們實現了稅前營業利潤18億英鎊。普通股股東應占利潤為13億英鎊，有形權益回報率為18.5%。

Turning now to our income performance. Overall income, excluding notable items, grew 2.1% to GBP4 billion. Excluding the impact of two fewer days in the quarter, income across our three businesses increased 3.7% or GBP143 million. Volume growth was also supported by margin expansion as tailwinds from the product structural hedge more than offset the impact of the base rate cut in February.

現在來談談我們的收入表現。不包括顯著項目的總收入成長 2.1%，達到 40 億英鎊。不計本季減少兩天的影響，我們三項業務的收入成長了 3.7%，即 1.43 億英鎊。由於產品結構對沖帶來的利多抵消了 2 月份基準利率下調的影響，銷售成長也得到了利潤率擴張的支持。

Net interest margin was up 8 basis points at 2.27%, mainly reflecting deposit margin expansion. We continue to assume three further base rate cuts this year with rates reaching 3.75% by the year-end. Expectations for the UK bank rates moved down in April, closer to our base case. But we recognize that uncertainty remains and the actual outcome may differ.

淨利差上升8個基點至2.27%，主要反映存款保證金率擴大。我們繼續假設今年基準利率將進一步下調三次，到年底利率將達到 3.75%。四月份，英國銀行利率預期會下降，更接近我們的基準預測。但我們認識到不確定性仍然存在，實際結果可能會有所不同。

Noninterest income across the three businesses increased 8% compared with the first quarter last year and was broadly stable when compared with the strong fourth quarter. This reflected another strong quarter of customer activity in our commercial and institutional business, in particular, in capital markets, currencies and fixed income. We were pleased with the strength of noninterest income, but the first quarter performance should not be taken as a run rate.

三項業務的非利息收入較去年第一季增長了 8%，與強勁的第四季度相比基本保持穩定。這反映了我們商業和機構業務的客戶活動又一個強勁的季度，特別是在資本市場、貨幣和固定收益領域。我們對非利息收入的強勁表現感到滿意，但第一季的表現不應被視為運行率。

Given the strength of total income in the first quarter, we now expect 2025 income to be at the upper end of our GBP15.2 billion to GBP15.7 billion range. Moving now to lending. We continue to be disciplined in our approach and deploying capital where returns are attractive. We were pleased to see a stronger mortgage market together with ongoing demand from larger corporates and financial institutions. Gross loans to customers across our three businesses increased by GBP3.5 billion to GBP375 billion.

鑑於第一季總營收的強勁，我們現在預計 2025 年的營收將達到 152 億英鎊至 157 億英鎊範圍的上限。現在轉向借貸。我們將繼續嚴守原則，將資本部署在具有吸引力的投資回報領域。我們很高興看到抵押貸款市場更加強勁，大型企業和金融機構的需求持續成長。我們三項業務的客戶總貸款增加了 35 億英鎊，達到 3,750 億英鎊。

Taking retail banking together with private banking, mortgage balances grew by GBP2.1 billion with strong gross new lending reflecting some pull forward of second quarter completions, ahead of the stamp duty changes for the first-time buyers on April 1. Our stock share remained stable at 12.6%. Unsecured balances increased slightly to GBP16.9 billion, driven by higher personal loans to our retail customers. Our unsecured portfolio will benefit in the second quarter from the completion of our transaction with Sainsbury's Bank, which I'll talk about shortly.

將零售銀行業務與私人銀行業務結合起來，抵押貸款餘額增加了 21 億英鎊，強勁的新增貸款總額反映了第二季度竣工量的提前，趕在 4 月 1 日首次購房者印花稅變化之前。我們的股票份額保持穩定在12.6%。由於我們向零售客戶增加個人貸款，無擔保餘額小幅增加至 169 億英鎊。我們的無擔保投資組合將在第二季受益於我們與 Sainsbury's Bank 交易的完成，我很快就會談到這一點。

In Commercial and Institutional, gross customer loans, excluding government schemes, increased by GBP1.6 billion. Within this, loans to corporates and institutions grew by GBP1.5 billion, mainly driven by infrastructure and project finance. You will also see in the appendix that we have shown the split of our corporate lending exposure by sector as presented in our year-end Pillar 3 disclosures.

在商業和機構領域，不包括政府計劃在內的總客戶貸款增加了 16 億英鎊。其中，企業和機構貸款增加了15億英鎊，主要受基礎設施和專案融資的推動。您還將在附錄中看到，我們已按行業展示了我們的企業貸款敞口的分佈情況，如我們年末第三支柱披露中所示。

I'll now turn to deposits. Fees were up GBP2.1 billion across our three businesses to GBP433 billion, continuing the quarterly growth trend of 2024. In Retail Banking, an increase in current account and term balances was partly offset by a reduction in instant access savings due to annual tax payments. This also drove a reduction in private banking balances of GBP1.2 billion.

我現在來談談存款。我們三項業務的費用增加了 21 億英鎊，達到 4,330 億英鎊，延續了 2024 年的季度成長趨勢。在零售銀行業務中，活期帳戶和定期餘額的增加部分被年度納稅導致的即時存取儲蓄的減少所抵消。這也導致私人銀行餘額減少了12億英鎊。

The increase in commercial and institutional of GBP2.4 billion was mainly from larger customers in corporate and institutions. Migration from noninterest bearing to interest-bearing deposits was insignificant, and we have not seen any material change in customer behavior following base rate cuts nor since the onset of recent market volatility. Noninterest-bearing balances remained 31% of the total and term accounts are still around 16%.

商業和機構業務增加24億英鎊，主要來自企業和機構的較大客戶。從無利息存款到有息存款的轉變並不顯著，而且在基準利率下調之後以及自近期市場波動開始以來，我們並未看到客戶行為發生任何重大變化。無利息帳戶餘額仍佔總額的 31%，定期帳戶餘額仍佔 16% 左右。

I'd like to turn now to our Sainsbury's Bank transaction, which completed yesterday. This transaction presents an opportunity to scale our customer base, adding 1 million new customer accounts, which deliver incremental income at low marginal costs through our digital platform, offering sustainable growth. It also accelerates our strategy to grow our share of unsecured credit in a disciplined way by increasing our credit card stock share to around 11% and improving profitability.

現在我想談談我們昨天完成的 Sainsbury 銀行交易。此交易為擴大我們的客戶群提供了機會，增加了 100 萬個新客戶帳戶，透過我們的數位平台以較低的邊際成本帶來增量收入，實現永續成長。它還加速了我們的策略，即透過將我們的信用卡股票份額增加到 11% 左右並提高盈利能力，以有紀律的方式增加我們的無擔保信貸份額。

The transaction is self-funded, bringing GBP2.7 billion of savings, which increases retail banking deposits by 1.4%. We expect these portfolios to add income of around GBP100 million this year, and we will incur onetime integration costs of around GBP100 million this year. The unsecured portfolio attracts a Day 1 charge for expected credit losses of around GBP80 million. In terms of capital, the portfolios at around GBP1.8 billion of risk-weighted assets with total Day 1 impacts reducing the CET1 ratio by around 16 basis points.

此次交易為自籌資金，帶來27億英鎊的儲蓄，使零售銀行存款增加1.4%。我們預計這些投資組合今年將增加約 1 億英鎊的收入，並且我們今年將產生約 1 億英鎊的一次性整合成本。無擔保投資組合第一天預期信用損失費用約為 8,000 萬英鎊。在資本方面，投資組合的風險加權資產約為 18 億英鎊，第一天的總影響將使 CET1 比率降低約 16 個基點。

Sainsbury's customers will move to NatWest branded products over the coming months with access to all our products through digital, in-person contact and our branches. And we're engaging with our new customers to ensure a smooth transition, as they migrate.

未來幾個月內，Sainsbury 的客戶將轉向 NatWest 品牌產品，並透過數位化、面對面聯繫和我們的分店獲取我們所有的產品。我們正在與新客戶合作，以確保他們順利過渡。

Turning now to costs. First quarter costs of GBP1.9 billion were down 8.5% on the fourth quarter, mainly as a result of seasonality and lower severance and property exit costs. As you know, our cost profile can be lumpy, and you should not take this as the run rate. Our annual wage awards and higher national insurance contributions both take effect from April 1. We incurred just GBP7 million of our guided onetime integration costs in the first quarter. So you can expect these to increase from the second quarter onwards.

現在談談成本。第一季的成本為 19 億英鎊，較第四季下降 8.5%，主要原因是季節性因素以及遣散費和財產退出成本降低。如您所知，我們的成本狀況可能不穩定，您不應將此視為運行率。我們的年度薪資獎勵和更高的國民保險繳款均從 4 月 1 日起生效。我們在第一季僅發生了 700 萬英鎊的指導性一次性整合成本。因此你可以預期從第二季開始這些數字會增加。

We remain on track for other operating expenses to be around GBP8 billion for the full year, plus around GBP100 million of onetime integration costs. And we continue to focus on delivering cost savings from our investment programs to create capacity for further investment to accelerate our bank-wide simplification.

我們預計全年其他營運支出約為 80 億英鎊，外加約 1 億英鎊的一次性整合成本。我們將繼續致力於透過投資計畫節省成本，以創造進一步投資的能力，加速全行的簡化進程。

I'd like to turn now to impairments. Our diversified prime loan book continues to perform well. We're reporting a net impairment charge of GBP189 million for the first quarter, equivalent to 19 basis points of loans on an annualized basis. In light of heightened global economic uncertainty, we have maintained our post-model adjustments at around GBP300 million, despite our book performance indicating a small release. We have reviewed our macroeconomic assumptions. And whilst uncertainty has increased, we are comfortable with them at this stage, having embedded a combined weighting of 32% to both our downside scenarios.

現在我想談談損害問題。我們的多元化優質貸款業務持續表現良好。我們報告第一季的淨減損費用為 1.89 億英鎊，相當於年化貸款的 19 個基點。鑑於全球經濟不確定性加劇，儘管我們的帳面業績顯示釋放幅度較小，但我們仍將模型後調整維持在 3 億英鎊左右。我們已經審查了我們的宏觀經濟假設。儘管不確定性有所增加，但我們目前對此感到滿意，因為我們對兩種下行情境的綜合權重均為 32%。

Our moderate downside scenario is closest to the modeled scenarios we have run and is worse than the latest economic consensus. We have no significant concerns about the credit portfolio at this time, and it is worth remembering that customer borrowing rates have been coming down in recent months together with inflation.

我們的溫和下行情境與我們運行的模型情境最接近，並且比最新的經濟共識更糟糕。目前，我們對信貸組合沒有重大擔憂，值得記住的是，近幾個月來，客戶借貸利率一直隨著通貨膨脹而下降。

Given the current performance of the book, we continue to expect a loan impairment rate below 20 basis points for the full year. Turning now to capital. We ended the first quarter with a common equity Tier 1 ratio of 13.8%, up 20 basis points. We generated 49 basis points of capital before distributions, including 68 basis points from earnings and 10 basis points from CET1 capital improvements. This was partly offset by RWA growth, which consumed 28 basis points.

鑑於目前的帳面表現，我們仍然預期全年貸款減損率將低於 20 個基點。現在轉向資本。第一季結束時，我們的普通股一級資本適足率為 13.8%，上漲了 20 個基點。我們在分配前產生了 49 個基點的資本，其中包括來自收益的 68 個基點和來自 CET1 資本改進的 10 個基點。這被 RWA 成長（消耗了 28 個基點）部分抵消。

As you know, we increased our ordinary dividend payout ratio from around 40% to around 50% this year. Accruing 50% of attributable profits was equivalent to 33 basis points. RWAs increased by GBP3.8 billion to GBP187 billion. This includes GBP2.2 billion from the annual update to operational risk, GBP0.8 billion from initial CRD IV model updates and GBP2 billion of business movements, which broadly reflects our lending growth. This was partly offset by another strong quarter of RWA management, which included two successful significant risk transfers and resulted in a reduction of GBP1.2 billion.

如您所知，我們今年將普通股息支付率從 40% 左右提高到 50% 左右。提列50%的可分配利潤相當於33個基點。風險加權資產增加 38 億英鎊，達到 1,870 億英鎊。其中包括來自年度營運風險更新的 22 億英鎊、來自初始 CRD IV 模型更新的 8 億英鎊以及 20 億英鎊的業務變動，這大致反映了我們的貸款成長。這在一定程度上被 RWA 管理的另一個強勁季度所抵消，其中包括兩次成功的重大風險轉移，導致減少了 12 億英鎊。

We continue to expect between GBP190 billion and GBP195 billion of RWAs at the year-end, where the figure lands exactly within this range will largely depend on CRD IV model outcomes. Our target CET1 ratio remains 13% to 14%.

我們繼續預期年底的風險加權資產將在 1,900 億英鎊至 1,950 億英鎊之間，而該數字是否準確落在此範圍內，很大程度上取決於 CRD IV 模型的結果。我們的目標 CET1 比率仍為 13% 至 14%。

Turning now to total capital and issuance. We have a robust capital position supported by strong capital generation from earnings and well-timed issuance over 2024 and 2025. Our total capital position comfortably exceeds minimum requirements for CET1, AT1 and Tier 2. You can see on the right the consistency of our capital generation from earnings each quarter. You can also see that our 2025 AT1 and Tier 2 issuance is well progressed, as we took advantage of market conditions in the first quarter. Overall, this puts us in a very strong position to deal with any changes in market conditions.

現在來談談總資本和發行量。我們擁有穩健的資本狀況，這得益於 2024 年和 2025 年盈利和適時發行帶來的強勁資本生成。我們的總資本狀況遠超過 CET1、AT1 和 Tier 2 的最低要求。您可以在右側看到我們每季從收益中產生的資本的一致性。您還可以看到，由於我們利用了第一季的市場條件，我們的 2025 年 AT1 和 Tier 2 發行進展順利。總體而言，這使我們能夠非常有效地應對市場條件的任何變化。

Turning now to guidance for 2025. We now expect income, excluding notable items, to be at the upper end of our previously guided range of GBP15.2 billion to GBP15.7 billion. Other operating expenses to be around GBP8 billion, plus around GBP100 million of onetime integration costs and the loan impairment rate to be below 20 basis points.

現在轉向 2025 年的指導。我們現在預計，不包括重大項目的收入將達到我們先前預測的 152 億英鎊至 157 億英鎊的上限。其他營運費用約為 80 億英鎊，加上約 1 億英鎊的一次性整合成本，貸款減損率低於 20 個基點。

RWAs are expected to be between GBP190 billion and GBP195 billion. And based on the strength of income, we now anticipate a return on tangible equity at the upper end of our 15% to 16% range. Looking beyond 2025, we believe the business is well positioned to continue to grow income, control costs and maintain strong capital and risk management, supporting our 2027 target for return on tangible equity of greater than 15%.

預計風險加權資產將在 1,900 億英鎊至 1,950 億英鎊之間。基於強勁的收入，我們現在預計有形資產回報率將達到 15% 至 16% 的上限。展望 2025 年後，我們相信公司已做好準備，繼續增加收入、控製成本並維持強大的資本和風險管理，從而支持我們實現 2027 年有形股本回報率超過 15% 的目標。

And with that, I'll hand back to the operator for Q&A.

說完這些，我將把問題交還給操作員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Sheel Shah, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Sheel Shah。

Thank you for the presentation. I've just got two questions, please, both on the income outlook. If we annualize the first quarter, we're running well above the target range you've indicated. So my question is more around the noninterest income. How much of the strength in the quarter do you think is sustainable? And if you can disaggregate between the various sort of segments within there, that would be helpful.

感謝您的演講。我有兩個問題，都是關於收入前景的。如果我們將第一季的業績按年化，我們的業績將遠高於您所指出的目標範圍。所以我的問題比較是關於非利息收入。您認為本季的強勁勢頭有多大是可持續的？如果您可以將其中的各個部分進行分解，那將會很有幫助。

Then secondly, on the lending margins, they've increased 2 bps in the quarter. Can I ask what was driving that and whether we should expect that same pace going forward? Thanks.

其次，貸款利潤率在本季增加了 2 個基點。我可以問一下是什麼推動了這個進程，以及我們是否應該預期未來會以同樣的速度發展？謝謝。

Thanks, Sheel. Katie, both for you.

謝謝，Sheel。凱蒂，這兩件事都是為你準備的。

Sure. Super. Thanks very much, Sheel. So look, really a good strong start to the year in terms of the quarter one performance, so very much expecting to land at the upper end of our guided range as we've spoken about in the call already. We don't expect Q1 to be the run rate, I'd say, particularly for noninterest income. There are a good few positives, as we move forward from here. Obviously, we've had continued good growth in Q1.

當然。極好的。非常感謝，Sheel。所以，從第一季的表現來看，今年確實有一個好的開端，因此我們非常期待達到我們指導範圍的上限，正如我們在電話會議中已經談到的那樣。我想說，我們並不認為第一季的運行率會如此，尤其是對於非利息收入而言。隨著我們繼續前進，我們將發現很多積極的方面。顯然，我們在第一季繼續保持良好的成長。

We've got 80% of our structural hedge tailwind already locked in for the year. And we've also got that additional benefit of GBP100 million from the Sainsbury's portfolio coming through. There are a few things that offset that. We've got three Bank of England rate cuts we expect to start on -- the next one on Thursday of next week. The overall impact of that will be subject to deposit pass-through and customer and competitor behavior. We do also recognize, as you all do, that there is heightened global economic uncertainty that may lead to a little bit of customer and consumer delay in borrowing and investment decisions.

我們今年已鎖定 80% 的結構性對沖順風。我們也從 Sainsbury 的投資組合中獲得了 1 億英鎊的額外收益。有一些事情可以抵消這一點。我們預計英格蘭銀行將進行三次降息——下一次降息將在下週四。其整體影響將取決於存款轉入以及客戶和競爭對手的行為。正如大家一樣，我們也意識到全球經濟不確定性加劇，這可能會導致客戶和消費者在藉貸和投資決策方面有所延遲。

And then on noninterest income, there are a number of factors there that influence the level from here, very much around kind of customer activity within there. If I look at your NIM point, as we look at that, so NIM 8 basis points up in the first quarter, lending margin 2-plus. That was very much pointing to mix in terms of a little bit of pressure on mortgages, but then unsecured and corporate lending growing. And also there was a nonrepeat of a mortgage EIR that we had in Q4.

對於非利息收入，有許多因素會影響其水平，很大程度上取決於客戶活動。如果我看一下您的 NIM 點，正如我們所看到的，第一季的 NIM 增加了 8 個基點，貸款利潤增加了 2 個以上。這在很大程度上表明抵押貸款面臨一些壓力，但無擔保貸款和企業貸款正在增長。而且我們在第四季的抵押貸款 EIR 也沒有重複出現。

Then deposit margin strong, 4 basis points coming through. And then funding and other plus 1 basis points. And that's driven by the ongoing repositioning of our liquidity portfolio and also AT1 issuance plus some non-repeat of Q4 tax charges. I know we seem to spend a lot of time chatting around funding and other with you on these calls. But I would say I don't really see it as a key driver going forward of our NIM outcome. There is some volatility in that line quarter-to-quarter.

然後存款保證金強勁，達到 4 個基點。然後資金和其他加1個基點。這是由我們流動性投資組合的持續重新定位、AT1 發行以及第四季度稅收費用不再重複所推動的。我知道我們在這些電話中似乎花了很多時間與您討論資金和其他問題。但我想說，我並不認為它是我們 NIM 結果向前發展的關鍵驅動因素。該線路每個季度都存在一些波動。

We do seek to take advantage of market conditions when they're appropriate. But overall, I think it's a good quarter for NIM, pleased with the performance and from the start of the year and that supports us guiding you to the top of the range for income. And as you know, we don't give you specific NIM guidance on the different component parts. Thanks very much, Sheel.

我們確實尋求在適當的時候利用市場條件。但總體而言，我認為這對 NIM 來說是一個好季度，我對年初的表現感到滿意，這支持我們引導您達到收入的最高水平。如您所知，我們不會針對不同組件提供特定的 NIM 指導。非常感謝，Sheel。

Thanks Katie. Thanks Sheel.

謝謝凱蒂。謝謝 Sheel。

Benjamin Caven-Roberts, Goldman Sachs.

班傑明·卡文-羅伯茨，高盛。

Good morning. Thanks very much for taking my questions. So first, just on the backdrop for asset quality and the read across from tariffs. Could you share a bit more detail on your thought process for the Q1 impairment charge and the GBP0.3 billion PMA you currently hold? I recognize the UK is, of course, impacted differently versus other countries in respect of tariffs, but I wonder how you're thinking around the more holistic impact of the slowdown in growth from global trade tensions?

早安.非常感謝您回答我的問題。首先，我們來看看資產品質的背景以及關稅的影響。您能否更詳細地分享您對第一季減損費用以及您目前持有的 3 億英鎊 PMA 的思考過程？我承認，英國在關稅方面受到的影響與其他國家不同，但我想知道您如何看待全球貿易緊張局勢導致的成長放緩的更全面影響？

And then secondly, just on capital allocation a bit more broadly, where do you see the most attractive area of your business currently to allocate incremental capital? And has this evolved at all over recent months?

其次，就資本配置而言，您認為目前貴公司業務中最具吸引力的增量資本配置領域是哪裡？近幾個月來情況有沒有什麼變化？

Thanks, Ben. Katie, I'll take those two. On the asset quality side, pleased with the quarter. Asset quality remains, Ben, strong. You'll have seen the charge for the quarter, 19 basis points. That's inside our 20 bps guidance, higher than quarter four last year, but there was a release in quarter four and lower though than quarter three last year.

謝謝，本。凱蒂，我要那兩個。在資產品質方面，對本季的表現感到滿意。本，資產品質依然強勁。您將看到本季的費用為 19 個基點。這符合我們的 20 個基點指導，高於去年第四季度，但第四季度已發布，但低於去年第三季度。

So we're encouraged that there's no underlying deterioration. I guess to your wider observations, we're obviously monitoring and very vigilant in terms of the portfolio, looking through the different asset books and ensuring we understand any emerging trends, but there's nothing material to report yet.

因此，我們很高興看到情況沒有任何惡化。我想，從您更廣泛的觀察來看，我們顯然在監控投資組合併保持高度警惕，查看不同的資產帳簿並確保我們了解任何新興趨勢，但目前還沒有任何重要內容可報告。

Customers are certainly resilient. I would say that they've proven their resilience over a number of shocks, arguably over the last decade from Brexit through COVID, through energy shocks and interest rates. We've got a PMA, as you mentioned, a total PMA of around GBP330 million, about GBP300 million of that is for economic uncertainty. We feel that positions us well, given you do have to acknowledge that there is obviously more global uncertainty certainly that has emerged since the end of the quarter.

顧客確實具有韌性。我想說的是，他們已經證明了自己對一系列衝擊的抵禦能力，可以說在過去十年裡，從英國脫歐到新冠疫情，再到能源衝擊和利率。正如您所說，我們有一筆 PMA，總額約為 3.3 億英鎊，其中約 3 億英鎊用於應對經濟不確定性。我們認為這對我們來說是有利的，因為我們必須承認，自本季末以來，全球不確定性明顯增加。

If you look at our book, given the size of our Corporate and Commercial business, we reflect the UK economy at 70% services. We've given you some hopefully helpful disclosures in the documents today around different sector concentrations. About 2% is manufacturing, for example, low single digits from a US perspective and mainly investment grade. So we're vigilant. We're monitoring, but we feel very reassured by the asset quality as it stands, and we think our clients are insulated from some of the impacts.

如果你看我們的帳簿，考慮到我們的企業和商業業務的規模，我們反映英國經濟 70% 是服務業。我們在今天的文件中圍繞不同行業集中度提供了一些希望有用的披露。例如，約有 2% 是製造業，從美國的角度來看，這是一個較低的個位數，而且主要是投資等級。所以我們保持警惕。我們正在監控，但我們對目前的資產品質感到非常放心，我們認為我們的客戶不會受到一些影響。

On capital allocation, your second question, strong position at the end of the quarter, 13.8%, represents around 50 basis points, 49 basis points to be exact, capital generation before the ordinary dividend. I think it's important to see that, that's come from both earnings and from good RWA management. So strong position there. In terms of -- I think that allows us to capture demand when it's there from customers. And you'll see that we've obviously grown our asset books in retail and commercial during the first quarter.

關於資本配置，您的第二個問題，本季末的強勁狀況為 13.8%，代表著普通股息前的資本產生約 50 個基點，準確地說是 49 個基點。我認為重要的是要看到，這既來自於收益，也來自於良好的 RWA 管理。那裡的地位非常強勢。就此而言——我認為這使我們能夠捕捉到來自客戶的需求。您會發現，第一季我們零售和商業領域的資產帳簿明顯增加。

We haven't fundamentally changed our capital allocation. We've been pleased with the growth and returns we can capture in mortgages and unsecured and the same on the corporate and institutional side, which mainly came through our kind of CIB business. So no change in our, I guess, philosophy of capital allocation. But as ever, I'm driven by our returns. So if we see that there's better risk reward, we will deploy differently, but we haven't done that yet. Thanks, Ben.

我們並沒有從根本上改變我們的資本配置。我們對抵押貸款和無擔保貸款以及企業和機構方面的成長和回報感到滿意，這主要來自我們的 CIB 業務。所以我想我們的資本配置理念沒有改變。但與以往一樣，我還是關注我們的回報。因此，如果我們發現有更好的風險回報，我們就會採取不同的部署，但我們還沒有這樣做。謝謝，本。

Chris Cant, Bernstein Autonomous.

克里斯‧坎特 (Chris Cant)，伯恩斯坦自治公司。

Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. I just wanted to ask about the headlines we've had in respect of ring-fencing, please. And just to understand, obviously, your signatory to the letter of the press asking for a review. What would you like to happen in respect of ring-fencing? And if you could explain a little bit your motivations for wanting to change this.

早安.感謝您回答這些問題。我只是想問一下有關圍欄的新聞標題。顯然，我要向您解釋一下，您簽署的新聞信函要求進行審查。您希望在圍欄方面發生什麼事？您能否稍微解釋一下您想要改變這種狀況的動機？

Obviously, one of your competitors has argued we shouldn't get rid of ring-fencing because it's good for customer protection. What is it that you feel this is doing that's adverse for the business? What are the restrictions? Is it about costs? And if it is about cost in part, could you give us an indication of the rough quantum of duplicated costs for the group? Thank you.

顯然，你們的一個競爭對手認為我們不應該取消隔離措施，因為它有利於保護客戶。您認為這會對業務產生哪些不利影響？有哪些限制？和成本有關嗎？如果部分原因與成本有關，您能否告訴我們集團重複成本的大致數量？謝謝。

Thanks, Chris. I'll take the ring-fencing question. So where am I on this topic? So I've been consistent since I've been in this role around how important it is to have high-quality regulation. I do actually think it's -- it can be a source of competitive strength for the UK sector. What I've also said is it's important we get the right balance between risk and protection. The regulatory architecture is very different since the time of the financial crisis, and it's also evolved a lot since the financial crisis. So if you think of recent introductions on the conduct side of consumer duty, recovery and resolution obviously followed ring-fencing.

謝謝，克里斯。我將回答有關圍欄的問題。那麼我在這個話題上處於什麼位置呢？自從我擔任這個職務以來，我一直堅信高品質監管的重要性。我確實認為它可以成為英國行業競爭力的來源。我還說過，在風險和保護之間取得適當的平衡非常重要。自金融危機以來，監管架構已有很大變化，也發生了很大變化。因此，如果你想想最近在消費者責任行為方面推出的舉措，那麼恢復和解決顯然遵循了隔離措施。

So it's in that context, I guess, I've signed a letter. And I do think there is more scope for further progress on ring-fencing and for further reform. I did welcome publicly the changes that came through earlier in the year in February. Why do I think there's more chance of reform, Chris, which I guess gets to the heart of your question.

所以我想，正是在這種背景下，我簽署了一封信。我確實認為，在資金隔離和進一步改革方面還有更大的進步空間。我確實在公開場合對今年二月實施的改革表示歡迎。克里斯，為什麼我認為改革的機會比較大呢？我想這觸及了你的問題的核心。

A couple of reasons. One is, one of the big drivers was obviously around financial stability, but the (inaudible) review itself concluded that the recovery and resolution regime that followed ring-fencing is arguably a more effective driver of that stability. So that's one reason.

有幾個原因。一是，其中一個主要驅動因素顯然是金融穩定，但（聽不清楚）審查本身得出的結論是，隔離措施之後的復甦和解決機制可以說是這種穩定的更有效的驅動因素。這是一個原因。

So -- and then the consequence of that is it's driving cost and friction into, I guess, how we serve our customers. So I wouldn't just highlight that it is a cost-driven argument. Arguably, most importantly, it's a customer-driven argument. It does impact our customers. It adds to the cost and complexity of serving customers across the ring-fence. That includes UK commercial and SMEs. So it can distort decisions, it can distort pricing and arguably limit bank's ability to support the economy and the growth agenda.

所以——其後果就是它會增加成本，並影響我們為客戶提供服務的方式。因此我不會只是強調這是一個成本驅動的論點。可以說，最重要的是，這是一個以客戶為導向的論點。它確實影響了我們的客戶。這增加了為跨圍欄客戶提供服務的成本和複雜性。其中包括英國商業和中小企業。因此，它可能會扭曲決策，扭曲定價，甚至可以限制銀行支持經濟和成長計畫的能力。

So that's -- I guess that's my rationale. I'm not going to put a cost number on it. I know you asked that, but you wouldn't expect me to, I'm not going to do that, but that's not the primary driver. I think the other question we need to ask ourselves as well really from a nation perspective is we are the only jurisdiction to have this particular regime. So where I am is it just feels timely and appropriate to review it. I think it is beholden on us to make sure that the prudential framework maximizes banks and the sector's ability to support UK business. So that's why I call for a timely review.

所以這就是──我想這就是我的理由。我不會公佈其成本數字。我知道你問了這個問題，但你不會指望我這麼做，我不會這麼做，但這不是主要驅動力。我認為從國家角度來看，我們需要問自己的另一個問題是，我們是唯一擁有這種特殊制度的司法管轄區。因此，我認為現在正是回顧這個過程的適當時機。我認為我們有責任確保審慎框架最大限度地發揮銀行和該行業支持英國企業的能力。所以我呼籲及時審查。

So hopefully, that's clear, Chris, and gives you a sense of how I think about it. And actually, the one point I didn't cover, just thinking through your various, I guess, sub-questions is, obviously, deposit protection is important, and I wouldn't be advocating for anything that jeopardize this, but I think there's a lot of existing embedded protections through the FSCS scheme, the MREL -- and capital and liquidity we hold through MREL, et cetera. So I think there's a lot of deposit protection. So I'm not looking to weaken that. Thanks Chris.

所以，克里斯，希望這些解釋清楚了，並能讓你了解我對此的看法。實際上，有一點我沒有涉及，只是思考了你的各種子問題，顯然，存款保護很重要，我不會提倡任何危及這一點的事情，但我認為通過 FSCS 計劃、MREL 以及我們通過 MREL 持有的資本和流動性等，已經存在很多嵌入式保護措施。所以我認為有很多存款保護措施。所以我不想削弱這一點。謝謝克里斯。

Andrew Coombs, Citi.

花旗銀行的安德魯庫姆斯 (Andrew Coombs)。

Good morning. A couple, please, one strategic, one numbers. On the strategic one, given that Sainsbury's Bank has now closed, perhaps you can comment on the strategy for that business from here, your ability to derive synergies to tap into the Sainsbury's customer base and potentially even more broadly the Nectar Rewards customer base.

早安.請給我幾個，一個是策略性的，一個是數字性的。從策略角度來看，鑑於 Sainsbury's 銀行現已關閉，也許您可以從這裡評論一下該業務的策略，以及您利用協同效應挖掘 Sainsbury's 客戶群的能力，甚至可能更廣泛地挖掘 Nectar Rewards 客戶群的能力。

And then second on the numbers, the cash flow hedge. Thanks for the extra disclosure on slide 9. You talk about 3p positive decay in the quarter, offset by yield curve steepening. Should we assume that quarterly decay run rate going forward? Is that fair?

其次是數字，即現金流對沖。感謝您在第 9 張投影片上提供的額外揭露。您談到本季 3p 的正向衰減，被殖利率曲線的陡化所抵消。我們是否應該假設未來的季度衰減運行率？這樣公平嗎？

Great. Thanks, Andrew. Katie, I'll take Sainsbury's and you follow up on cash flow hedge. On Sainsbury's, Andrew, delighted to close that yesterday. It brings 1 million customer accounts to NatWest. Also strategically, it improves our market share in unsecured prime credit card market share, goes up to 11% on the back of transaction. So I think strategically, it's compelling. It's not really a synergies-led deal because we've taken the customers and the assets and the liabilities. We haven't taken in effect the infrastructure of Sainsbury's Bank.

偉大的。謝謝，安德魯。凱蒂，我會選 Sainsbury's，你負責跟進現金流對沖。關於 Sainsbury's，安德魯昨天很高興地結束了這項活動。它為 NatWest 帶來了 100 萬個客戶帳戶。從策略上講，它還提高了我們在無擔保優質信用卡市場的份額，在交易的支持下上升到 11%。所以我認為從戰略上來說，這是引人注目的。這實際上並不是一項由協同效應主導的交易，因為我們已經獲得了客戶、資產和負債。我們還沒有實施 Sainsbury's Bank 的基礎設施。

We do see opportunity there within -- obviously, within the 1 million customer accounts that are coming across. We have the ability to offer the breadth of our products, services, channels, mobile app functionality. We think we can deliver to that customer base a very attractive proposition. And obviously, that will be a key focus of ours, as we migrate the customers over the course of the next six months.

我們確實看到了其中的機會——顯然，在即將遇到的 100 萬個客戶帳戶中。我們有能力提供廣泛的產品、服務、通路和行動應用功能。我們認為我們可以向該客戶群提供非常有吸引力的建議。顯然，這將是我們在未來六個月內遷移客戶時關注的重點。

We do -- we have a very good and healthy working relationship with Sainsbury's on multiple points, on multiple areas. So we do have the potential to think about the proposition and targeted offers using loyalty and Nectar points. But we'll be very targeted and thoughtful about that and make sure it drives customer value and utility. But you can obviously expect to see that across -- not just the cards portfolio across the opportunities we have. So that's where we are on Sainsbury's, pleased and excited by it. Katie?

我們確實與 Sainsbury's 在多個方面、多個領域保持著非常良好和健康的合作關係。因此，我們確實有潛力考慮使用忠誠度和 Nectar 積分來提出建議和有針對性的優惠。但我們會非常有針對性和深思熟慮，並確保它能帶來顧客價值和效用。但你顯然可以期待看到這一點——不僅僅是我們擁有的卡片組合中的機會。這就是我們對 Sainsbury's 的看法，我們對此感到高興和興奮。凱蒂？

Lovely. Thanks. Andrew. So just in terms of the cash flow hedge, there's no change to my previous comments that I've made on this. We do expect the majority of the hedge to unwind over the next two years. So that 3p that you see on slide 19 is from that decay. It is a little bit of offset, as we've seen the yield curve changes kind of move around. But -- so I wouldn't probably guide you to quarter-to-quarter, but it certainly is over the next two years. We expect that to be fully kind of matured out.

迷人的。謝謝。安德魯。因此，就現金流對沖而言，我之前對此發表的評論沒有任何改變。我們確實預計大部分對沖將在未來兩年內解除。因此，您在投影片 19 上看到的 3p 就是來自那次衰變。這有一點偏移，因為我們已經看到殖利率曲線的變化。但是 - 我可能不會指導您進行季度間的預測，但肯定會在未來兩年內進行。我們期望它能夠完全成熟。

Sorry, just to follow up on that, a bit of a pointed question, but do you think that's reflected in consensus in the tangible NAV because you've again been in this quarter on tangible NAV per share.

抱歉，只是想跟進一下這個問題，這是一個有點尖銳的問題，但您是否認為這反映在有形資產淨值中的共識中，因為您在本季度再次討論了每股有形資產淨值。

Yeah. So I guess when we look at consensus, I do note that our average consensus is sitting around 27.8% for 2025. It's a better place than it was, but I would say it's broadly in consensus, but maybe not everybody. So maybe it's a useful reminder this morning for those that might want to look at it again.

是的。因此，我想，當我們看共識時，我確實注意到我們對 2025 年的平均共識約為 27.8%。現在的情況比以前好多了，但我想說的是，這基本上是共識，但可能不是所有人的共識。所以，對於那些可能想再次查看它的人來說，這也許是今天早上的一個有用的提醒。

Thank you, Katie. Thank you Andrew.

謝謝你，凱蒂。謝謝你，安德魯。

Aman Rakkar, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的阿曼‧拉卡爾 (Aman Rakkar)。

Hello guys. I guess I've got two questions. One is around just deposit income. And you are delivering pretty impressive deposit margin expansion despite base rate cuts. And my ultimate question is just around the sustainability of this deposit margin expansion because you've got so many moving parts, right? You've got the structural hedge, you've got base rate cuts, but then you've got pass-throughs and the various delays that come through. So is this the kind of run rate for deposit margin expansion in coming quarters?

大家好。我想我有兩個問題。一是僅涉及存款收入。儘管基準利率下調，但你們仍實現了相當令人印象深刻的存款保證金擴張。我的最終問題是，由於涉及太多活動部件，存款保證金擴張是否具有可持續性，對嗎？你有結構性對沖，有基本利率下調，但隨後你又遭遇了轉嫁和隨之而來的各種延遲。那麼，這是未來幾季存款保證金擴張的運作率嗎？

And if there's part of that, you can lift the lid on what is the structural hedge contribution versus the other bit because it is impressive, and I just want to kind of get an understanding of how enduring this is. So yes, if you could kind of lift the lid on that. And as part of that, I think you're executing pass-throughs pretty robustly from here. I think the stuff that we're kind of monitoring, I can see kind of 60% to 70%. Do you think you can continue doing that from here with the three rate cuts you've got coming? Should we kind of continue to factor that as a glide path?

如果有其中的一部分，你可以揭開結構性對沖貢獻與其他部分的區別，因為它令人印象深刻，我只是想了解這種影響有多麼持久。是的，如果你能揭開這個謎團的話。作為其中的一部分，我認為您從這裡開始非常穩健地執行傳遞。我認為，就我們所監控的內容而言，我可以看到 60% 到 70% 左右。您認為在已經三次降息的情況下，您還能繼續這樣做嗎？我們是否應該繼續將其視為下滑路徑？

And then, I mean, the only other comment or kind of question is, we really don't know what to do with any of your guidance this year because there is just so -- such a clear upside risk to your guidance that we're inclined to just completely disregard it upon arrival. So I guess it's not really a question there. It's more of a statement, right?

然後，我的意思是，唯一的其他評論或問題是，我們真的不知道如何處理您今年的任何指導，因為您的指導存在如此明顯的上行風險，以至於我們傾向於在它到來時完全忽略它。所以我想這實際上不是一個問題。這更像是一種聲明，對吧？

But the net interest income is clearly compounding higher. The margin is better. The volume has tailwinds. To even hit the GBP15.7 billion, I think the non-net interest income would basically have to drop off a cliff. So yeah, you can comment on that or you can just accept my observation.

但淨利息收入顯然在複合成長。利潤比較好。成交量有順風。我認為，要達到 157 億英鎊，非淨利息收入基本上必須大幅下降。是的，您可以對此發表評論，或者您可以接受我的觀察。

I think observation-hypothesis, I think -- okay. Right. Three questions. Katie, I'll come back to you for deposit income. On pass-throughs, simple and quick answer Aman, I agree with you. We've executed well in terms of the current reductions. We've given you some sensitivities. The numbers you quoted around the past interest rates are accurate. You can see that in the data. Ultimately, it will be a function of our funding needs, competitor behavior, customer reaction. But we feel confident from a pricing perspective.

我認為觀察假設，我認為－－好的。正確的。三個問題。凱蒂，我會回來找你收取存款收入的。關於傳遞，簡單快速的回答阿曼，我同意你的看法。就目前的減排措施而言，我們執行得很好。我們已經給了你一些敏感度。您引用的有關過去利率的數字是準確的。您可以在數據中看到這一點。最終，它將取決於我們的資金需求、競爭對手的行為和客戶的反應。但從定價角度來看，我們充滿信心。

We understand the elasticity in the customer base, and we're getting the balance right. So that's where we are on pass-throughs, and we're very thoughtful both on the level of pass-through and the timing. Let me address the bigger question on, or your observation on guidance. I guess where are we? We've obviously had a very strong start to the year. We've said we expect to be at the upper end for both returns and income. We're pleased with the income trajectory. We've given you a pretty granular guidance on other lines in the P&L.

我們了解客戶群的彈性，我們正在取得正確的平衡。這就是我們在傳遞方面所採取的措施，我們對傳遞的水平和時間都非常謹慎。讓我來回答更大的問題，或是您對指導的觀察。我猜我們在哪裡？顯然，我們今年的開局非常強勁。我們說過，我們期望回報和收入都達到較高水準。我們對收入軌跡感到滿意。我們已經為您提供了有關損益表中其他項目的非常詳細的指導。

Obviously, there are scenarios which would get you to a higher return. But my view is -- what is it, six, seven weeks on since we last spoke to you. There's obviously wider uncertainty as ever. You'll -- I'll update you as we go through the year. But we feel pleased with the quarter one that we've had.

顯然，有些情況可以讓你獲得更高的回報。但我的看法是——距離我們上次與您交談已經過了六、七週。顯然，不確定性比以往任何時候都更大。你會——我會在一年中向你通報最新情況。但我們對第一季的業績感到滿意。

Katie, deposit income?

凱蒂，存款收入？

Perfect. Thanks so much. On your kind of deposit question, I'm probably going to take you a little bit back up, Aman. I think it might be easier. So we don't guide on NIM, as you know, but we have seen steady improvement in the deposit margin. And that's really as a result of the strong hedge that we've got in place. You understand that well. So I'm not going to take you through that in a huge amount of detail, not kind of break it down. You've definitely got all the details that you need on that hedge to enable you to model that.

完美的。非常感謝。關於您提出的存款問題，阿曼，我可能會稍微回顧一下。我認為這可能會更容易。因此，正如您所知，我們不對 NIM 進行指導，但我們看到存款保證金穩步提高。這確實是因為我們已採取了強而有力的對沖措施。你很了解這一點。因此，我不會向你詳細介紹這一點，也不會對其進行分解。您肯定已經掌握了有關該對沖的所有必要細節，以便能夠對其進行建模。

I think the kind of -- as you talk about, there are different factors coming through. And it really comes on to as we get into the rate cuts, which we expect to see kind of coming one a quarter for the rest of the year, the level of kind of pass-through that happens there. We model it on 60%, as you know, and that's been pretty accurate in terms of our recent experiences we've gone through and then kind of what happens on competition as well as the kind of evolving trends that we see on kind of household M4, particularly as to what happens to those deposits -- those margins.

我認為——正如您所說，有不同的因素在起作用。隨著我們開始降息，我們預計今年剩餘時間內我們每個季度都會看到一次降息，這確實與那裡發生的傳導水平有關。如您所知，我們以 60% 為模型，根據我們最近的經驗，這個模型非常準確，然後是競爭情況以及我們在家庭 M4 上看到的演變趨勢，特別是那些存款 - 那些利潤率的情況。

But overall, thanks very much for the question. And I think you've got all the bits to kind of form your own conclusions.

但總的來說，非常感謝您的提問。我認為你已經掌握了所有信息，可以得出自己的結論了。

Amit Goel, Mediobanca.

Amit Goel，Mediobanca。

Hi. Thank you. So one is actually on the costs on slide 10. So -- I mean, maybe you don't me to kind of completely unpack it, but when I look at the underlying costs in the quarter, kind of annualize those and then add on the items, the integration, the NIC, 3.3% wage growth, the levies, et cetera, I still come to a number about GBP150 million shy of the GBP8.1 billion target or guidance for the year.

你好。謝謝。因此第 10 張投影片上實際上討論的是成本。所以——我的意思是，也許你不需要我完全解釋清楚，但是當我查看本季度的基本成本，將其年化，然後加上項目、整合、NIC、3.3% 的工資增長、徵稅等等，我仍然得出一個比 81 億英鎊的目標或年度指導少 1.5 億英鎊左右的數字。

So I'm just wondering whether that's potentially some higher admin expense or the premises or depreciation? Or is there also a bit more potential upside coming through on the cost line and just -- and or was there any other reason why cost was particularly good in Q1 and why that wouldn't necessarily repeat in the future quarters?

所以我只是想知道這是否可能是更高的管理費用或房屋費用或折舊費用？或者成本方面是否還有更多的潛在上漲空間，或者還有其他原因導致第一季的成本特別好，以及為什麼這種情況不一定會在未來幾季重複出現？

And then secondly, just coming back on the ring-fencing question. I appreciate your commentary on the cost piece. I was just wondering if you were able to deploy more capital outside of the ring-fence, to what extent would that help you from a kind of a growth or volume perspective and or kind of yield perspective if you can deploy liquidity? I don't know, would you be able to deploy it at slightly better yields, if we were to see some softening of the regime?

其次，我們再回到隔離問題。我很感謝您對成本部分的評論。我只是想知道，如果您能夠在圍欄之外部署更多資本，如果您能夠部署流動性，從成長或數量角度或收益角度來看，這將在多大程度上幫助您？我不知道，如果我們看到政權有所軟化，你是否能夠以略高的收益率部署它？

Thanks. I let Katie --

謝謝。我讓凱蒂--

Absolutely. Thanks, Amit. Look, when we look at cost, our guidance is really unchanged from that. We are on track to deliver our full year cost guidance of around that GBP8 billion, plus GBP100 million of the onetime integration costs. And of that onetime integration costs, we spent GBP7 million in the first quarter. So you're going to see that ramp up in the next few quarters as you go through.

絕對地。謝謝，阿米特。你看，當我們考慮成本時，我們的指導確實沒有改變。我們預計將實現全年約 80 億英鎊的成本預期，外加 1 億英鎊的一次性整合成本。在這些一次性整合成本中，我們在第一季花費了 700 萬英鎊。因此，在接下來的幾個季度中，您將會看到這一趨勢的上升。

But you understand as well the costs are lumpy. And so I wouldn't expect Q1 to kind of happily feed through on the other quarters. But you've clearly got the component parts in terms of NIC comes in April or staff pay award of 3.3% comes in from April as well. So you see them kind of coming through. What Paul and I are really focused on as we go towards that GBP8.1 billion number is really kind of focus on the creating capacity so that we can then reinvest that in the business.

但你也明白成本是巨大的。因此，我並不認為第一季會對其他季度產生正面的影響。但您顯然已經了解了 4 月份 NIC 或 4 月份 3.3% 的員工薪酬獎勵的組成部分。所以你會看到他們正在走過來。當我們朝著 81 億英鎊的目標邁進時，保羅和我真正關注的是創造能力，以便我們可以將其重新投資於業務。

So I would really encourage you to take the GBP8.1 billion, except that it's lumpy in different quarters, and I know that's frustrating for you with your models. But that's certainly the number that we're aiming for, and we have every intention of hitting. And in doing so, make sure that we can drive the business to create capacity, continue to reinvest in our development.

因此，我真的鼓勵您拿出 81 億英鎊，但這筆錢在各個季度是不成比例的，我知道這對您的模型來說很令人沮喪。但這確實是我們所追求的數字，而且我們完全有意願去實現它。這樣做可以確保我們能夠推動業務創造產能，並繼續對我們的發展進行再投資。

Paul, I hand back to you.

保羅，我把麥克風交還給你。

Yeah. Thanks, Katie. So on ring-fencing, relatively simple, Amit, I guess, should there be any change? And I guess so the premise is that it is currently not as efficient as it could be from a funding from a liquidity and capital perspective. So if there were to be any changes, that does present opportunities in terms of choices around how we would deploy that capital and liquidity.

是的。謝謝，凱蒂。因此，關於隔離，相對簡單，阿米特，我想，應該有什麼改變嗎？我想，前提是，從流動性和資本角度來看，目前的融資效率還不夠高。因此，如果發生任何變化，這確實為我們如何部署資本和流動性提供了選擇機會。

What wouldn't change is kind of, I guess, our capital discipline and the way we think about allocating capital to the best returning opportunities. But ultimately, it could lead to more support of customers and better utilization and optimization of the capital and liquidity across the whole group.

我想，不會改變的是我們的資本紀律以及我們將資本分配給最佳回報機會的方式。但最終，它可以為客戶帶來更多的支持，並更好地利用和優化整個集團的資本和流動性。

Ed Firth, KBW.

艾德·弗斯（Ed Firth），KBW。

Yes. Good morning, everybody. I just wondered if I could just bring you back to your interest rate sensitivity. I think you put it in the appendix. I think it's a couple of hundred million for 25 basis points, something like that of cuts. Because if I look over the last 12 months, your margin is up almost 30 basis points, give or take a bit.

是的。大家早安。我只是想知道我是否可以讓您重新回到利率敏感度。我認為你把它放在附錄中了。我認為 25 個基點的降息幅度相當於數億美元，類似降息。因為如果我回顧過去 12 個月，你的利潤率大約上漲了 30 個基點，或多或少。

And I know you're going to say, well, look at the structural hedge. But the structural hedge, you give us good disclosure on that, that's 15 basis points to 20 basis points of that, at most. So you've probably done another 10 basis points of margin expansion in a falling interest rate environment.

我知道你會說，好吧，看看結構性對沖。但是結構性對沖，您向我們提供了很好的揭露，最多是 15 個基點到 20 個基點。因此，在利率下降的環境下，你可能又將保證金擴大了 10 個基點。

And so I'm just trying to understand sort of how that works. I mean I guess I get that the 25 basis points sensitivity is like a theoretical exercise you do. But I guess what that means is you're able to adjust product pricing to basically more than offset that pressure. And so I suppose the question is it's a bit rather what Aman was talking. I mean, is there a world where -- I mean, could we safely suggest now to ignore that interest rate sensitivity and assume that you can continue to do that going forward, firstly.

所以我只是想了解它是如何運作的。我的意思是，我想我明白 25 個基點的敏感度就像你做的理論練習一樣。但我想這意味著你能夠調整產品定價，基本上抵消這種壓力。所以我想問題在於阿曼到底在說什麼。我的意思是，是否存在這樣一個世界——我的意思是，我們現在是否可以安全地建議忽略利率敏感性，並假設你可以繼續這樣做，首先。

And then secondly, is there a level of interest rates at which that doesn't -- you won't be able to do that? Because, I mean, I guess interest rate expectations are falling quite rapidly at the moment. So -- I mean, if we get that sort of 2.5% or something, is that the level at which suddenly you can't reprice enough because you start to hit deposit flows, et cetera. So that would be -- any comments you got around that would be very helpful.

其次，是否存在一個利率水平，在這個水平上，你將無法做到這一點？因為，我的意思是，我猜目前利率預期正在迅速下降。所以——我的意思是，如果我們得到 2.5% 左右的利率，那麼在這個水平上你突然就無法進行足夠的重新定價，因為你開始影響存款流等等。所以——您收到的任何評論都會非常有幫助。

Thanks, Ed. Katie, why don't I'll say a couple of quick words on pricing developments generally, then you maybe talk to some of the --

謝謝，埃德。凱蒂，我先簡單說幾句關於定價趨勢的整體情況，然後你或許可以談一些--

Sure.

當然。

So Ed, the comment I'd make is we -- since the second half of mid-2023, we've invested a lot of time and money in terms of understanding our deposit pricing, our elasticity, and we've been much able -- much better able to price dynamically to understand different segments and elasticity. We've extended the product range, both the range of products, but also the tiers within those products. So that probably talks to just a greater dynamic use of our pricing insights around how we price the book. So it's worth bearing that in mind as well as the observations you have around the structural hedge. Katie?

因此，艾德，我想說的是，自 2023 年中下半年以來，我們投入了大量的時間和金錢來了解我們的存款定價和彈性，而且我們能夠更好地進行動態定價，以了解不同的細分市場和彈性。我們擴大了產品範圍，包括產品範圍以及產品內的層級。因此，這可能只是在談論我們如何為書籍定價時更加動態地利用我們的定價洞察力。因此，值得記住這一點以及您對結構性對沖的觀察。凱蒂？

Yeah, sure, absolutely. So I mean, Ed, clearly, we put a lot of effort into that sensitivity. So I really encourage you not to ignore it. And you can see that it's something that we evolve each kind of half year and year-end for you to kind of see within there. But as you look at it, there are things, obviously, you need to bear in mind about it. It's on a static balance sheet. So as things evolve in the year, you can see changes. And what we have seen in different quarters is the mix does move a little bit from where we were in terms of fixed term accounts and where we were noninterest-bearing.

是的，當然，絕對是。所以我的意思是，埃德，顯然我們在這種敏感性上投入了很多精力。所以我真的鼓勵你不要忽視它。您可以看到，這是我們每半年和每年年底都會推出的，以便您可以看到其中的內容。但當你看到它時，顯然你需要記住一些事情。它在靜態資產負債表上。因此，隨著一年中事態的發展，你可以看到變化。我們在不同季度看到的情況是，與先前的定期帳戶和非計息帳戶相比，組合確實略有變化。

And we've seen a bit more coming into instant access, which obviously that for us is good for the deposit margin as that kind of comes through. The other thing I would kind of look to sort of see is actually to consider what's happening on some of the customer pricing as well as that kind of hedge tailwind. You know that our mortgage headwind has abated in terms of the effort there. So it's kind of going flow through. You heard my comments earlier in the kind of funding and other where we try to kind of eke out margin by taking advantage of different kind of positions in the market.

我們看到即時訪問的出現有所增加，這對我們來說顯然對存款保證金有利。我想關注的另一件事實際上是考慮一些客戶定價以及對沖順風的情況。您知道，就我們在這方面的努力而言，抵押貸款方面的阻力已經減弱。所以它就像是流動的。您之前聽到了我關於融資類型和其他方面的評論，我們試圖利用市場上不同類型的地位來賺取利潤。

But overall, if you think of what we said about the hedge, we expect it to be kind of stable in terms of its size. And then the deposit margins, the percentages in terms of the different deposit accounts has been quite stable as well. So that kind of helps us kind of offset some of the rate cuts, as we move through.

但總體而言，如果你想想我們所說的對沖，我們預期它的規模會比較穩定。然後，存款保證金，不同存款帳戶的百分比也相當穩定。因此，這有助於我們抵消部分降息的影響。

So overall, look at the different -- have a look at the different component parts, but I'd really encourage you to use that sensitivity and think of how it comes through on different timings of different rate cuts. Thanks, Ed.

所以總的來說，看看不同的——看看不同的組成部分，但我真的鼓勵你利用這種敏感性，思考它是如何在不同的降息時機下實現的。謝謝，艾德。

Sorry, just as a follow-up, is there a rate at which that dynamic pricing becomes more challenging? And I guess one thinking about deposit flows.

抱歉，作為後續問題，動態定價是否會變得更具挑戰性？我想有人會考慮存款流動。

I mean -- I think what we need to do is look through, obviously, the history we've all lived through over the last 5, 10 years. Obviously, as you kind of go back through a few years ago -- I mean, five, six years ago, none of us we'd ever paid anything for our deposits ever again as a receiver side, and that's obviously changed. I think what's happened is both the consumer and ourselves have all got much more sophisticated, more flexibility in terms of where we want to hold our deposits, the kind of reemergence of the kind of the term account as a place to kind of get better kind of interest rates.

我的意思是——我認為我們需要做的顯然是回顧過去 5 年到 10 年我們經歷的歷史。顯然，回顧幾年前——我的意思是，五、六年前，作為接收方，我們中沒有人再為我們的存款支付過任何費用，而這種情況顯然已經發生了變化。我認為現在的情況是，消費者和我們自己在選擇存款方式方面都變得更加成熟和靈活，定期帳戶的重新出現讓我們可以獲得更好的利率。

So I think even when you see -- if we were to go down to those levels, which mean isn't a level that's been proposed, I would say this, it's not something we certainly see in our own economics, there would still be movement and flexibility on that, but that very much mirrors what's kind of have happened in the past as well.

所以我認為，即使你看到——如果我們降到那些水平，這意味著不是一個已經提出的水平，我想說，這不是我們在自己的經濟中肯定會看到的事情，仍然會有變動和靈活性，但這非常反映了過去發生的事情。

Jonathan Pierce, Jefferies.

喬納森·皮爾斯，傑富瑞。

Hello. Hi both, good morning. Two questions, please. The first, I suppose demonstration of how clear and concise much of this is AT1 costs, I'm having to focus in on. The AT1 socketing is about GBP6 billion now, which is 3.2% of your RWAs. Just wondering where we go from here because based on what you've got at the moment, the annualized cost is about GBP400 million, which is quite a bit above consensus, but you have got some pretty big potential calls later in the year.

你好。大家好，早安。請問兩個問題。首先，我想先重點說明 AT1 成本的清晰和簡潔程度。目前 AT1 插座約 60 億英鎊，佔 RWA 的 3.2%。我只是想知道我們接下來會怎麼做，因為根據您目前掌握的情況，年化成本約為 4 億英鎊，這遠高於普遍預期，但您在今年晚些時候可能會接到一些相當大的電話。

Your, slide 13, I think it was suggested that you probably are largely done for the year, and hence, you'll just let those other AT1s later in the year disappear without replacement. Is that the way to think about it? Because I'd just like to get a better handle on what we should be putting in for AT1 coupons moving forward.

您的第 13 張投影片，我認為有人建議您今年的工作可能已經基本完成，因此，您將在今年稍後讓其他 AT1 消失而不進行替換。是這樣思考的嗎？因為我只是想要更了解我們今後應該為 AT1 優惠券投入什麼。

The second question is a bit bigger picture, capital intentions, 13.8% equity Tier 1, you're generating a lot every quarter. The directed buyback opportunity feels like it's receding by the day. How are you thinking about this? Are you keeping capital back for potential inorganic opportunities? When we get to the interims, we -- should we be expecting in market buybacks to be announced, these kind of things?

第二個問題有點大，資本意向，13.8% 的股權一級資本，你每季都會產生很多收入。定向回購機會似乎正在一天天減少。您對此有何看法？您是否會保留資本以尋找潛在的無機機會？當我們進入中期報告時，我們是否應該期待市場宣布回購之類的事情？

And maybe connected to that, the risk-weighted asset optimization, it'd be helpful if you could give us a sense as to what the cost to the income is of that? Because accepting you want to hit your RWA guidance for the year, given the capital position, it doesn't necessarily feel like you need to be doing this, if it's coming as an income cost. So as a rule of thumb, what's the income hit from GBP1 billion of RWA optimization would be useful to know. Thanks a lot.

也許與此相關的是風險加權資產優化，如果您能讓我們了解這對收入的成本是多少，那將會很有幫助？因為假設您想要達到今年的 RWA 指導，考慮到資本狀況，如果這是作為收入成本的話，您不一定覺得需要這樣做。因此，根據經驗法則，了解 10 億英鎊 RWA 優化對收入的影響是多少是有用的。多謝。

Right. Thanks, Jonathan. Katie, I'll take capital and then come back to you on -- then you take the specific on AT1.

正確的。謝謝，喬納森。凱蒂，我會拿資本，然後再回到你身邊——然後你拿 AT1 上的具體內容。

Sure. Thank you.

當然。謝謝。

Okay. So Jonathan, on capital, as you say, strong print, 13.8%, upper end of our range. We've been consistent. We're happy to operate anywhere within the range, 13% to 14%. It gives us obviously a material buffer on our minimum, which is 11.7%. You talk -- there is the potential, as you say, the size of it is getting smaller, but there still is the potential for a directed buyback, should we have the chance to participate. So it's worth bearing that in mind.

好的。因此，喬納森，就資本而言，正如您所說，強勁的印刷量為 13.8%，處於我們範圍的上限。我們一直保持一致。我們很樂意在 13% 到 14% 的範圍內開展業務。它顯然為我們的最低限度提供了物質緩衝，即 11.7%。正如您所說，存在這種潛力，雖然規模正在變小，但仍然有定向回購的潛力，如果我們有機會參與的話。所以值得記住這一點。

We will review other buybacks, as you'd expect with the Board and update at the half year and at the full year. That's when we tend to do that. Nothing's changed around my philosophy, our philosophy in terms of capital allocation. We know how important capital return is to shareholders. So that's -- yeah, I think hopefully, that gives you a very clear view of where we are.

我們將與董事會一起審查其他回購，並在半年和全年進行更新。那時我們往往會這麼做。我的理念、我們的資本配置理念沒有任何改變。我們知道資本回報對股東有多重要。是的，我希望這能讓您清楚地了解我們所處的位置。

On RWAs and the specific, I guess the way we think about that is around the cost of capital on the trade. So we don't disclose the number on the cost of that. But what we ensure any trades that we write, we have to be -- we ensure that we're very happy with the return.

關於風險加權資產和具體問題，我想我們思考這個問題的方式是圍繞交易的資本成本。因此我們不會透露其成本的具體數字。但我們保證，對於我們進行的任何交易，我們都必須——我們確保我們對回報非常滿意。

And then obviously, we can redeploy that capital at a higher return. So that in effect, we look at those trades as through the returns lens, as in return accretive at a trade level, but also redeployment of the capital rather than just thinking about the income impact.

然後顯然，我們可以以更高的回報重新部署該資本。因此，實際上，我們是透過回報的視角來看待這些交易的，既要考慮交易層面的回報增值，又要考慮資本的重新部署，而不僅僅是考慮收入影響。

AT1s, Katie?

AT1，凱蒂？

Yeah, sure, absolutely. And thanks for bringing it up, Jonathan. So you're right. So we issued some AT1 in November and March. And I would say some of the cost probably isn't completely in all of the models. So it's worth having another bit of a look at as well. The coupon cost is booked through profit attributable to paid in equity holders, just to remind you, that is about GBP100 million per quarter. And then the income obviously comes in proceeds that is included with income.

是的，當然，絕對是。謝謝你提出這個問題，喬納森。所以你是對的。因此我們在 11 月和 3 月發布了一些 AT1。我想說的是，部分成本可能無法完全體現在所有型號上。因此也值得再看一下。息票成本是透過歸屬於股東的已付利潤來記錄的，提醒一下，這個數字大約是每季 1 億英鎊。然後收入顯然來自於包含在收入中的收益。

We do, as you saw -- you can see on slide 14, we're sitting a little bit higher than our regulatory requirement on AT1. The requirement is 2.1% versus the 3.2% that we're sitting at just now. That's really a reflection of some of the early issuance we did to take advantage of good kind of markets. Jonathan, as you know, I can't comment on future calls, as we go through from here. So I'm not going to comment on that specifically today, but I guess that excess gives you some kind of indicator, but comfortable with where we're sitting and really pleased that we did do some of our issuance earlier in the year as well. I hope that helps.

如您所見，我們確實如此 - 您可以在幻燈片 14 上看到，我們的 AT1 水平略高於監管要求。要求是 2.1%，而我們現在的要求是 3.2%。這實際上反映了我們為利用良好市場而進行的一些早期發行。喬納森，如你所知，我無法對未來的通話發表評論，因為我們從這裡開始。因此，我今天不會對此進行具體評論，但我想這種超額發行會給你某種指標，但我對目前的狀況感到滿意，並且很高興我們在今年早些時候也進行了部分發行。我希望這能有所幫助。

And more broadly, Jonathan, just to close it off, we remain obviously very focused on capital allocation and distribution.

更廣泛地說，喬納森，最後，我們顯然仍然非常關注資本配置和分配。

Thank you. Are you willing to give us a very rough rule of thumb on the income impact of the RWA optimization? Because there was GBP1.2 billion in Q1. I guess there's a bit more coming later in the year. It's obviously a bit of a headwind against income.

謝謝。您是否願意為我們提供關於 RWA 優化對收入影響的粗略經驗法則？因為第一季有12億英鎊。我想今年晚些時候還會有更多消息。這對收入來說顯然是一個阻礙。

So I mean -- not looking to give you a specific number on that. I mean, obviously, as you know, we guide to total income, and that would be a small number as part of that piece. It is one of the things when we look to the second half of the year, the kind of the headwinds that you have, where you do see as you ramp up, you'll see some kind of action come through on that.

所以我的意思是──不想給你一個具體的數字。我的意思是，顯然，如你所知，我們指導總收入，而這只是其中一小部分。這是我們展望下半年時所看到的事情之一，你所面臨的阻力，隨著你的努力，你會看到一些行動的出現。

I just remind you, there are various bits of RWA action we do, whether it's SRTs or credit insurance or obviously asset sales as well as kind of the data management activities we go. They all come at very different costs in terms of -- as Paul said earlier, very committed to the cost of equity on those things and also where we can redeploy it. So overall, we see it as very beneficial for the shape of the balance sheet and the income statement.

我只是提醒你，我們採取了各種 RWA 行動，無論是 SRT 還是信用保險或顯然是資產銷售，以及我們進行的資料管理活動。正如保羅之前所說，它們的成本都非常不同，我們非常重視這些事物的股權成本，以及我們可以在哪裡重新部署它。因此整體而言，我們認為這對資產負債表和損益表的形態非常有利。

Guy Stebbings, BNP Paribas Exane.

蓋伊·斯特賓斯 (Guy Stebbings)，法國巴黎銀行 Exane 部門。

A couple of follow-ups, I guess. So the first one was just coming back to lending margin. And then firstly, what are you seeing on new mortgage spreads today versus prior quarters and the 70 basis points you saw for much of 2024? I mean, is it right to think that may have drifted down into the sort of 60s on application spreads today?

我想，還有一些後續行動。因此，第一個問題就是回到貸款保證金問題。首先，與前幾季以及 2024 年大部分時間的 70 個基點相比，您今天看到的新抵押貸款利差如何？我的意思是，是否可以認為今天的應用傳播率可能已經下降到 60 年代左右？

And then on asset mix, how much sort of seeing support on the corporate book in particular, and if that's a trend you would expect to persist? And then the final question was back on risk transfer market, but really in the context of the recent PRA comments. I think seeing the concern is centered more on risk in the system from funding of banks to [across] rather than the size of the market itself. But a peer of yours downplayed an (inaudible) in the weeks. I just wondered if that was something you would sort of echo those remarks.

那麼在資產組合方面，特別是在企業帳簿上看到多少支持，如果這種趨勢持續下去，您預計會持續下去嗎？然後，最後一個問題又回到了風險轉移市場，但實際上是在最近的 PRA 評論的背景下。我認為人們的擔憂更多地集中在從銀行融資到整個系統的風險上，而不是市場本身的規模。但您的一位同事在幾週內淡化了（聽不清楚）的影響。我只是想知道您是否會贊同這些言論。

Katie?

凱蒂？

Sure, absolutely. So when we look at the mortgage margin, our book margin remains around 70 basis points, in line with our previous guidance. That's a good indicator of the front [EBIT] margin that we aim to write at for our risk appetite. We do know and clearly, you can see that the front book margins do vary week-to-week, given the dynamic pricing and hedging that we have with good returns that are obviously available below that 70 basis points level, particularly when you look at the kind of lower LTVs.

當然，絕對是如此。因此，當我們查看抵押貸款利潤率時，我們的帳面利潤率仍保持在 70 個基點左右，與我們先前的指導一致。這是我們根據風險偏好設定的前期 [EBIT] 利潤率的一個很好的指標。我們確實知道，而且您可以清楚地看到，考慮到我們擁有的動態定價和對沖，前帳簿利潤率確實每週都在變化，並且顯然在 70 個基點以下可以獲得良好的回報，特別是當您看到較低的 LTV 時。

What I would say on kind of margins overall, you do expect us to be thoughtful on volume of new business, as we continue to write and to flex our appetite at different times as some of the returns vary at different points on the pricing kind of chart. As you know, on mortgages and assets in general, our focus is very much on returns and not on the margins within there.

我想說的是，就整體利潤率而言，你確實希望我們認真考慮新業務量，因為我們會繼續寫作並在不同時間調整我們的興趣，因為一些回報在定價圖表的不同點會有所不同。如您所知，對於抵押貸款和一般資產而言，我們關注的是回報，而不是其中的利潤率。

And then if I look to your question on the asset book within the corporate book, you can see within our NIM walk this time around that, we actually had a little bit of a positive in there, slight negative on mortgages, as I mentioned earlier, and the positive coming through from the corporate book and a little bit on unsecured as well.

然後，如果我看一下您關於公司帳簿中的資產帳簿的問題，您可以在我們這次的 NIM 走勢中看到，我們實際上在其中有一點積極因素，對抵押貸款有一點消極因素，正如我之前提到的，還有來自公司賬簿的積極因素，以及無擔保貸款也有一點積極因素。

Then in terms of your second question, the (inaudible) [CFO] letter, it was very focused on the financing of significant risk transfers in the trading book. And that has no read across for us on the execution of our SRT transaction of our own assets, as part of our capital optimization activities. And we do not, of course, finance any of our SRT transactions.

然後就您的第二個問題而言，（聽不清楚）[財務長] 的信函非常注重交易帳簿中重大風險轉移的融資。作為我們資本優化活動的一部分，這對我們執行自有資產的 SRT 交易沒有任何意義。當然，我們不會為任何 SRT 交易提供融資。

Robin Down, HSBC.

羅賓唐 (Robin Down)，匯豐銀行。

Good morning. Can I just build a little bit on your comment there about mortgage spreads and appetite for writing business. I think you mentioned earlier that Q1 you felt was influenced by stamp duty on the mortgage side. But if we look at the bank of approval numbers for March, they didn't really fall a great deal versus prior months. And certainly on a non-seasonally adjusted basis, they looked actually quite strong at the end of March. So I just wonder if you could give us an indication of where your kind of approval numbers were and what you're thinking about lending into Q2. And then maybe similarly on the --

早安.我能否就您關於抵押貸款利差和寫作業務興趣的評論進行一些補充？我想您之前提到過，您認為第一季受到了抵押貸款印花稅的影響。但如果我們看一下三月的批准數字，就會發現與前幾個月相比並沒有大幅下降。當然，從未經季節性調整的數據來看，三月底的表現確實相當強勁。所以我只是想知道您是否可以告訴我們您的批准數字是多少，以及您對第二季貸款的想法。然後也許同樣地--

Robin, we've lost you.

羅賓，我們失去你了。

Yes. Unfortunately, we can't hear Robin anymore, but maybe you'd like to add --

是的。不幸的是，我們再也聽不到羅賓的聲音了，但也許你想補充一下--

Robin, we lost you there, mid-question.

羅賓，我們在你提問時把你弄丟了。

Which question? The mortgage?

哪一個問題？抵押貸款？

Yeah, we haven't got at the end of your mortgage question.

是的，我們還沒有回答你關於抵押貸款的問題。

Okay. It's because I got Bloomberg running in the background. It's just really a question of whether you could give us a sort of indication of where your mortgage approvals were at the end of March and what your kind of thoughts are in terms of mortgage growth in kind of Q2? Because it just feels to me like there's more underlying demand there rather than necessarily just being a stamp duty issue.

好的。這是因為我讓彭博社在後台運作。這實際上只是一個問題，您是否可以向我們透露一下 3 月底您的抵押貸款批准情況，以及您對第二季度抵押貸款增長的看法？因為我覺得那裡有更多的潛在需求，不一定只是印花稅問題。

And then the second question was around deposits. Obviously, Q1 seasonally is normally a very weak quarter for deposits. You've seen growth coming through, including in personal current accounts. So just wondering what your thoughts are there in terms of growth in Q2 and beyond and whether or not we should expect your structural hedge growing? I know you've talked about stability in the past, but whether we should actually be factoring in growth there?

第二個問題是關於存款。顯然，從季節性角度來看，第一季通常是存款非常疲軟的季度。您已經看到了成長，包括個人活期帳戶的成長。所以只是想知道您對第二季及以後的成長有何看法，以及我們是否應該預期您的結構性對沖會成長？我知道您過去曾談到穩定性，但是我們是否真的應該將成長考慮進去？

Great. Thanks, Robin. So on -- Katie, I come to you on deposits. On the mortgage side, we agree with you. The application levels through the quarter remained robust. There was a pull forward of some of the first-time buyer transactions because of the stamp duty change. We can see in the data that our market share increased there from 8% a year ago to 11%, and we've kept our overall mortgage market stock share steady. So yeah, so application volumes remain strong. We don't see that as a kind of cliff edge moment in terms of the stamp duty change.

偉大的。謝謝，羅賓。那麼——凱蒂，我來找你談存款事宜。關於抵押貸款方面，我們同意你的看法。本季的申請水準依然保持強勁。由於印花稅的變化，一些首次購屋者的交易有所提前。我們可以從數據中看到，我們的市場份額從一年前的 8% 增長到了 11%，並且我們在整個抵押貸款市場的份額保持了穩定。是的，申請量仍然很高。我們並不認為印花稅改革的情況已經到了懸崖邊緣。

Katie, deposits?

凱蒂，押金？

Yeah, sure, absolutely. So if we look at the deposits, if we think of our own economic data, we do expect the deposits to continue to kind of to grow in line with that. We're very much moving in line with market in that space. And then you can also see that the savings rate has continued to improve as well, which is obviously is beneficial. Now in terms of your comments and queries on the structural hedge, we have seen a little bit of growth in this quarter on the noninterest-bearing, particularly within retail banking and as we move forward from there.

是的，當然，絕對是。因此，如果我們看一下存款，如果我們考慮我們自己的經濟數據，我們確實預期存款將繼續隨之成長。我們正與該領域的市場保持一致。然後你也可以看到儲蓄率也持續提高，這顯然是有益的。現在，就您對結構性對沖的評論和疑問而言，我們看到本季無息業務有所成長，特別是在零售銀行業務中，並且隨著我們的發展。

So Robin, I think what's helpful to do is to think back of how do we do our structural hedge. So we do a 12-month look back. So that small amount of growth that we've seen coming through in terms of its eligible balances, you couldn't see that start to come through over the 12-month look back. But I would say at the moment, we're kind of guiding you to pretty stable for this year around that GBP170 million.

所以羅賓，我認為有幫助的是回想一下我們如何進行結構性對沖。因此我們進行了 12 個月的回顧。因此，就合格餘額而言，我們看到的少量增長，在 12 個月的回顧中是看不到的。但我想說，目前，我們預計今年的預算將穩定在 1.7 億英鎊左右。

So I wouldn't expect it to deliver growth immediately into the size of that structural hedge. But it's something that certainly if we continue to see it growth and it became more meaningful, then it would go through, but it does come on to your kind of eligible balances. And that's certainly where our noninterest-bearing are important within there. I hope that helps.

因此，我並不期望它能立即帶來結構性對沖規模的成長。但如果我們繼續看到它成長並變得更有意義，那麼它就會經歷，但它確實會影響到你的合格餘額。這當然就是我們的無息收入在其中扮演重要角色的地方。我希望這能有所幫助。

Alvaro, Morgan Stanley.

阿爾瓦羅，摩根士丹利。

Just a couple of quick follow-ups really. Just on the deposit mix, term deposits come down slightly, Katie, you just referred to some of that. As rates come lower, do you think we could see more of that? Or it's just a seasonal blip, I guess people might not -- start not to bother to roll over some of the term deposits. Could we see that effect if we get closer to 3% or what level of rates do you think that could happen more at a bigger scale?

實際上只是一些快速的後續問題。就存款組合而言，定期存款略有下降，凱蒂，你剛才提到了其中的一些。隨著利率降低，您認為我們會看到更多這樣的情況嗎？或者這只是一個季節性的波動，我想人們可能不會開始費心去展期一些定期存款。如果我們接近 3%，我們是否能看到這種效果？或者您認為在什麼水平的利率下，這種效果可能會在更大範圍內發生？

And second, just to make sure that's still the intention. When you talk about your 13% to 14%, now that the government is sort of quickly going to come out, do you still intend to stay within that range and distribute anything above that range on an interim basis, i.e., every 6 months at the midyear and the full year? Thank you.

其次，要確保這仍然是我們的意圖。當您談到 13% 到 14% 時，既然政府現在很快就要出台政策，您是否仍打算保持在該範圍內，並在中期（即年中每 6 個月和全年）分配該範圍以上的部分？謝謝。

Thanks, Alvaro. Last but not least. On the second -- I'll take the second question, Katie, then flip back to you on the deposit side. On the capital question, Alvaro, we're very happy to operate anywhere within the target range of 13% to 14%. We consider the bottom end to be a strong capital level. But as you probably heard me say earlier, we'll decide at the half year and the full year with the Board around capital distribution, but we know how important that is to shareholders. So no change in our philosophy at all from that perspective. Katie?

謝謝，阿爾瓦羅。最後但並非最不重要的。關於第二個問題，凱蒂，我先回答第二個問題，然後再把存款方面的問題轉交給你。關於資本問題，阿爾瓦羅，我們很高興在 13% 至 14% 的目標範圍內運作。我們認為底端是一個強大的資本水準。但正如您可能之前聽我說過的那樣，我們將在半年和全年與董事會一起決定資本分配，但我們知道這對股東來說有多重要。所以從這個角度來看，我們的理念根本沒有改變。凱蒂？

Sure. In terms of deposit mix, when I look at that term number, it was like 17%, now it's 16%. It's all kind of in the roundings of where those numbers are. I think one of the things to think about as well as the kind of fixed rate ISA. So the April was ISA season, and we did see, in both in the sector data and in our own data, there was a strong season. So you see some nice pickup from there. So I think you see how it flows from here.

當然。就存款組合而言，當我查看那個期限數字時，它曾經是 17%，現在是 16%。這一切都與這些數字的四捨五入有關。我認為需要考慮的事情之一是固定利率 ISA 的種類。因此，四月是 ISA 季節，我們確實看到，無論是在行業數據還是在我們自己的數據中，都有一個強勁的季節。因此，您會看到一些不錯的回升。所以我想您已經明白它是如何從這裡流動的了。

What we look at a lot is in terms of when people's accounts are coming up to maturity, how much do they retain and how much do they either move into instant access and then we see it coming back into fixed as it goes through. And that kind of percentage has been pretty strong and it is quite a high proportion of that. So in my own mind, one of the ways to think about it, you have the ISA season, which brings more money in and then you have people that are kind of managing their kind of term deposits as to where they are.

我們主要關注的是當人們的帳戶即將到期時，他們會保留多少錢，有多少是可以立即使用的，然後我們會看到它在使用過程中回到固定狀態。這種比例相當高，而且佔比相當高。因此，在我看來，思考這個問題的一種方式是，你有 ISA 季節，它會帶來更多的資金流入，然後你會讓人們管理他們的定期存款，看看它們在哪裡。

Obviously, it varies in terms of different sectors. Private is a little bit different as well as people are looking for sometimes for alternative investment. And then C&I, as you know, the numbers are much chunkier, and it's a different kind of theme that you have in there. But overall, I think we're happy with how it's progressing. We expect it to continue to progress relatively well, but we'll move very much in line with kind of market flow. So let's see how it plays out from here. Thanks very much, Alvaro.

顯然，不同行業的情況有所不同。私人投資略有不同，人們有時會尋找另類投資。然後是 C&I，如您所知，數字更加龐大，其中的主題也有所不同。但總的來說，我認為我們對它的進展感到滿意。我們預計它將繼續取得相對良好的進展，但我們將根據市場趨勢採取相應措施。那麼讓我們看看接下來會發生什麼。非常感謝，阿爾瓦羅。

Thanks, Alvaro. And I guess I'll wrap things up with the last question.

謝謝，阿爾瓦羅。我想用最後一個問題來結束我的討論。

So I guess to conclude, we're pleased with the performance in quarter one. It's strong, and it shows the continued momentum in the business. We continue to believe the business is very well positioned to deliver strong shareholder returns. And to that end, we've updated our returns guidance to the upper end of the 15% to 16% range for '25.

所以我想總結一下，我們對第一季的表現感到滿意。它非常強勁，並且顯示出業務持續成長的勢頭。我們仍然相信，該公司完全有能力為股東帶來豐厚的回報。為此，我們已將 2025 年的回報率預期更新至 15% 至 16% 的上限。

We will be holding a spotlight on our private banking business on June 25. So I hope most of you will get the chance to join that. And also the spotlight we held on our commercial business is available on the website. So wishing you all a good weekend. Thank you.

我們將於 6 月 25 日重點介紹我們的私人銀行業務。所以我希望你們大多數人都有機會加入。我們在商業業務上所關注的焦點也可在網站上找到。祝大家週末愉快。謝謝。