Nu Holdings Ltd. (NU) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nu Holdings conference call to discuss the results for the second quarter of 2026. A slide presentation is accompanying today's webcast, which is available in Nu Investor Relations website, www.investors.nu in English and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese. This conference is being recorded, and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website.

各位女士、各位先生，晚安。歡迎參加 Nu Holdings 的電話會議，討論 2026 年第二季的業績結果。今天的網路直播搭配投影片簡報，可於 Nu 投資人關係網站取得：www.investors.nu（英文）以及 www.investidores.nu（葡文）。本次會議將進行錄音，重播亦可於公司投資人關係網站收聽。

This call is also available in Portuguese. (Operator Instructions) (spoken in foreign language)

本次電話會議亦提供葡萄牙語版本。（接線員指示）（外語發言）

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Guilherme Souto, Investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Souto, you may proceed.

現在我想把電話會議交給 Nu Holdings 投資人關係主管 Guilherme Souto 先生。Souto 先生，請開始。

Thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for joining our earnings call today. With me on today's call are David Velez, our Founder, Chief Executive Officer, and Chairman; and Rob Livingston, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝接線員，也謝謝各位今天參加我們的財報電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有：我們的創辦人、執行長兼董事長 David Velez，以及我們的財務長 Rob Livingston。

All financial metrics discussed and presented today reflect our managerial P&L framework, which we introduced in the Q4 2025. These managerial measures are important to how we manage the business, but are not financial measures as defined under IFRS and may not be comparable to other companies. A full reconciliation report to the most directly comparable IFRS figures is available in our managerial P&L reconciliation report and in the Appendix to this presentation.

今天討論與呈現的所有財務指標，皆反映我們的管理層損益（P&L）架構，該架構於 2025 年第四季導入。這些管理層衡量指標對我們經營管理很重要，但並非 IFRS 所定義的財務衡量指標，且可能無法與其他公司相比。與最直接可比的 IFRS 數字之完整調節表，已載於我們的管理層損益調節報告以及本簡報附錄中。

Unless otherwise noted, all growth rates discussed today are presented on a year-over-year FX-neutral basis.

除非另有說明，今天討論的所有成長率皆以年對年、剔除匯率影響（FX-neutral）的基礎呈現。

Today's discussion may include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure included in the earnings presentation for additional information.

今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，該等陳述不保證未來表現，並涉及風險與不確定性。實際結果可能與明示或暗示的內容有重大差異。更多資訊請參閱財報簡報中所載的前瞻性陳述揭露。

With that, I will now turn the call over to David. Please go ahead, David.

接下來，我將把電話會議交給 David。David，請開始。

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. 13 years ago, we started with a simple hypothesis that a bank built on technology with no branches and no legacy to defend could serve hundreds of millions of people better and at a fraction of the cost.

各位好，感謝今天加入我們。13 年前，我們以一個簡單的假設起步：一家以科技打造、沒有分行、也沒有既有包袱需要捍衛的銀行，能以更好的方式、並以遠低於傳統成本的代價，服務數以億計的人。

Today, I'm proud to announce that in the past quarter, for the first time, we generated more than $1 billion in net income. This milestone is the result of our customer obsession translated into an earnings-generating formula. It is also a testament to the tremendous work of our team here at Nubank. 13 years later, that hypothesis continues to play out exactly as we envisioned. Our customer base reached 139 million customers, including almost 118 million in Brazil, more than 5 million in Colombia, and in the end of July, Mexico just reached 16 million customers.

今天，我很自豪地宣布，在上一季我們首次創造超過 10 億美元的淨利。這個里程碑，是我們對客戶的極致投入轉化為可產生獲利的公式之成果。這也證明了 Nubank 團隊在此所付出的巨大努力。13 年後，這個假設仍然如我們所設想般持續實現。我們的客戶基礎已達 1.39 億名客戶，其中巴西接近 1.18 億、哥倫比亞超過 500 萬，而在 7 月底，墨西哥剛達到 1,600 萬名客戶。

Engagement continued to deepen alongside that growth. Our activity rate expanded sequentially to 83.5%, while Brazil surpassed 86% for the first time. The combination of more customers and deeper engagement continues to drive monetization, with ARPAC reaching $17. Together, they generated $5.9 billion in gross revenue while maintaining a highly efficient operating model with an efficiency ratio of 20%.

在成長的同時，互動參與度也持續加深。我們的活躍率連續季增至 83.5%，而巴西更首次突破 86%。更多客戶加上更深的互動，持續推動變現能力，ARPAC 達到 17 美元。綜合之下，我們創造了 59 億美元的總營收，同時維持高度高效的營運模式，效率比率為 20%。

This operating leverage allows us to continue investing in our three core markets: Brazil, Mexico, and Colombia, while laying the foundation for our international expansion. That is what we have always meant by optimizing for the long term. It is why we can continue building for the next decade while delivering a quarter like this.

這樣的營運槓桿讓我們得以持續投資於三個核心市場：巴西、墨西哥與哥倫比亞，同時為國際擴張奠定基礎。這正是我們一直以來所說的「以長期為優先」的最佳化。也因此，我們能在交出這樣一季成績的同時，持續為下一個十年打造。

Let me walk you through both, starting with Brazil. Brazil remains our largest growth opportunity, and most of it lies within our existing customer base. The mass market alone represents roughly $30 billion in industry gross profit. We already serve most of that segment, and we're the primary account for approximately 60% of those customers.

我將從巴西開始，帶各位了解這兩個面向。巴西仍是我們最大的成長機會，而其中大部分機會存在於我們既有的客戶基礎之中。僅大眾市場就約占產業總毛利 300 億美元。我們已服務該區隔的大多數客戶，且約 60% 的這些客戶以我們作為主要帳戶。

Even so, there is significant room to deepen those relationships and capture more of that profit pool. That is possible because of the capabilities we have built over the past 13 years. They allow us to expand financial access while delivering a better customer experience, lower costs, and increasingly personalized products.

即便如此，我們仍有很大的空間深化這些關係，並取得更多的獲利池份額。這之所以可行，是因為我們在過去 13 年所建立的能力。這些能力讓我們在擴大金融可及性的同時，提供更好的客戶體驗、更低的成本，以及愈加個人化的產品。

As we built one of the leading financial services brands in Latin America for the mass market, we found ourselves attracting millions of higher-income Brazilians that unfortunately we were not able to serve well at the time.

當我們為大眾市場打造出拉丁美洲領先的金融服務品牌之一時，我們也發現自己吸引了數以百萬計的巴西高收入族群，但遺憾的是，當時我們尚無法很好地服務他們。

In 2021, we launched Ultravioleta, a high income-focused brand and product, where nearly 1 million Ultravioleta customers have significantly higher purchase volumes and assets under custody than the rest of our portfolio, with both continuing to grow strongly, up 41% and 37% year over year, respectively, in Q2 2026.

2021 年，我們推出 Ultravioleta，這是一個聚焦高收入族群的品牌與產品；目前接近 100 萬名 Ultravioleta 客戶，其消費金額與託管資產均顯著高於我們投資組合中的其他客戶，且兩者皆持續強勁成長；在 2026 年第二季，年對年分別成長 41% 與 37%。

However, we have realized that there is a meaningful segment between mass market and high income that we could also be serving better. We call this segment Super Core. And in July, we launched Croma, a subscription-based tier for our Super Core customers, a segment with an even larger profit pool than high income and one where we already have significant penetration.

然而，我們也意識到，在大眾市場與高收入族群之間，存在一個具規模的區隔，我們同樣可以提供更好的服務。我們將此區隔稱為 Super Core。7 月，我們為 Super Core 客戶推出 Croma，這是一個訂閱制等級方案；該區隔的獲利池甚至大於高收入族群，而且我們已具備相當高的滲透率。

Croma gives them a dedicated experience, enhanced credit offerings, and a broader set of banking and lifestyle benefits, designed to reward customers for concentrating more of their financial lives with Nubank. That includes NuCel, a free ChatGPT Go subscription, accelerated savings products, and other benefits across our own ecosystem and partners.

Croma 為他們提供專屬體驗、強化的信貸方案，以及更廣泛的銀行與生活風格福利，旨在獎勵客戶將更多金融活動集中在 Nubank。其中包括 NuCel、免費的 ChatGPT Go 訂閱、加速型儲蓄產品，以及我們自有生態系與合作夥伴提供的其他福利。

Our goal is to develop primary banking relationships, and Croma is a significant step in this direction for this segment. Of course, the opportunity also extends beyond consumers. We already serve 6.8 million small businesses, making Nubank the largest financial institution in Brazil by number of business customers.

我們的目標是建立主要往來銀行關係，而 Croma 是我們在此區隔朝該方向邁出的重要一步。當然，機會也不僅限於消費者。我們已服務 680 萬家小型企業，使 Nubank 以企業客戶數量計成為巴西最大的金融機構。

Here we still reach only about one-third of that market. This is how we see the next chapter of growth in Brazil, continuing to expand our customer base while increasingly serving a larger share of our customers' financial lives through better product and segmentation.

在這裡，我們目前仍僅觸及約三分之一的市場。這就是我們所看到的巴西下一篇章成長：持續擴大客戶基礎，同時透過更好的產品與分層分眾，逐步服務客戶金融生活中更大的一部分。

Now let me turn to our other core market. Earlier this month, Mexican regulators approved our banking license in the country, and we're happy to be born as the largest digital bank in Mexico with more than 16 million customers. That completes our transformation from a credit-first fintech into a full-scale digital bank, and it unlocks capabilities we did not have before.

接著我談談我們另一個核心市場。本月稍早，墨西哥監管機構核准了我們在當地的銀行執照；我們很高興以超過 1,600 萬名客戶之規模，成為墨西哥最大的數位銀行。這完成了我們從以信貸為先的金融科技公司，轉型為全方位數位銀行的進程，也解鎖了我們過去不具備的能力。

Payroll direct deposits strengthen primary banking relationships and customer engagement. Higher deposit insurance increases confidence in holding balances with us. Those deposits form a broader credit offering while allowing us to expand into new products and customer segments over time.

薪資直接入帳可強化主要往來銀行關係與客戶互動。更高的存款保險額度提升客戶將資金餘額放在我們這裡的信心。這些存款也支撐更廣泛的信貸供給，同時讓我們能隨時間推進，擴展至新產品與新客群。

Financial inclusion has been a defining part of the journey. For 35% of our customers, we were their first bank account; for 52%, their first credit card. Today, our customers live in 98% of Mexico municipalities with nearly 80% outside the country's major cities, demonstrating how technology lets us reach customers everywhere.

金融普惠一直是這段旅程的核心。對 35% 的客戶而言，我們是他們的第一個銀行帳戶；對 52% 而言，我們是他們的第一張信用卡。如今，我們的客戶遍布墨西哥 98% 的市鎮，其中近 80% 位於該國主要城市之外，展現科技如何讓我們觸及各地客戶。

But what excites us most is what comes next. Mexico remains at an earlier stage of digital financial adoption. Bank account penetration has increased from 44% to 63% over the past decade, yet 85% of Mexicans still prefer to pay in cash.

但最令我們振奮的是接下來的發展。墨西哥的數位金融採用仍處於較早階段。過去十年，銀行帳戶滲透率已從 44% 提升至 63%，但仍有 85% 的墨西哥人偏好以現金支付。

Yet the pace of change is accelerating. Digital payments in Mexico continue to compound year after year. In the first half of this year, pay transfers below $5 grew more than 60%. And today, nearly half of all transfers in the country are less than $25. These are everyday transactions and a clear sign that cash is steadily giving way to digital payments.

然而，變革的步伐正在加速。墨西哥的數位支付持續逐年複利成長。今年上半年，低於 5 美元的轉帳成長超過 60%。而如今，全國近一半的轉帳金額低於 25 美元。這些都是日常交易，清楚顯示現金正穩步讓位於數位支付。

In June, the Central Bank introduced new rules that every financial institution must implement by the end of the year. The objective is to simplify the experience across different payment rails. Going forward, consumers will see a standardized interface and follow the same steps regardless of who they are paying or how they choose to pay. Since these rules are mandatory for the entire financial system, they strengthen network effects and should further accelerate digital payment adoption.

6 月，中央銀行推出新規定，要求每一家金融機構必須在年底前完成落實。其目標是簡化不同支付軌道（payment rails）之間的使用體驗。未來，消費者將看到標準化的介面，無論付款對象是誰或選擇何種付款方式，都將遵循相同步驟。由於這些規定對整個金融體系具有強制性，它們強化了網路效應，並應進一步加速數位支付的採用。

We have seen this movie before. In Brazil, the regulatory agenda foster competition and digital innovation, expanding financial inclusion, driving everyday usage, and ultimately accelerating credit adoption. PIX is the clearest example. We offer a simple and seamless experience from the very beginning, became the market leader in transaction volume and turned that into primary banking relationships. That environment rewarded exactly the digital model we had built. We believe Mexico is following a similar path.

這部戲我們以前看過。在巴西，監管議程促進競爭與數位創新，擴大金融普惠，帶動日常使用，並最終加速信貸採用。PIX 是最明確的例子。我們從一開始就提供簡單且無縫的體驗，成為交易量的市場領導者，並將其轉化為主要往來銀行關係。那樣的環境正好獎勵了我們所打造的數位模式。我們相信墨西哥正在走上一條相似的道路。

We can already see it in our numbers. Today, we reached 16.5% of Mexico's adult population, essentially the same penetration we had in Brazil in 2020. But the cohorts are monetizing earlier. At the same stage, ARPAC in Mexico is $12.3 against $5.6 in Brazil. That reflects higher income per capita, better unit economics in the credit card product and higher interest-earning balances, all at a lower cost to serve.

我們已經能從數據中看見這一點。目前，我們已觸及墨西哥 16.5% 的成年人口，基本上相當於我們在 2020 年於巴西的滲透率。但各批次客群更早開始變現。在相同階段，墨西哥的 ARPAC 為 12.3 美元，而巴西為 5.6 美元。這反映了更高的人均收入、信用卡產品更佳的單位經濟，以及更高的生息餘額，同時服務成本更低。

Mexico is Brazil's playbook running faster and with the benefit of the scale we have today. That's how we broke even in six years in Mexico compared with eight years in Brazil.

墨西哥就像是巴西劇本的加速版，並且受益於我們如今的規模。這也是為什麼我們在墨西哥用六年就達到損益兩平，相較之下在巴西花了八年。

To recap, customer behavior, technology, and regulation are now all moving in the same direction. Taken together, they create one of the most compelling opportunities we have ever seen in Mexico. As more financial activity moves onto our platform, we build deeper customer relationships, gain better underwriting insights, and expand our ability to serve a larger share of our customers' financial lives.

總結來說，客戶行為、科技與監管如今都朝同一方向前進。綜合而言，它們在墨西哥創造了我們所見過最具吸引力的機會之一。隨著更多金融活動轉移到我們的平台上，我們能建立更深的客戶關係、獲得更好的承保洞察，並擴大我們服務客戶金融生活更大份額的能力。

For the first time, we now have the full set of capabilities to capture that opportunity in Mexico. And Brazil and Mexico run on the same technology stack and increasingly on the same brain. Let me show you what that means.

這是我們首次在墨西哥具備完整的一套能力來把握這個機會。而巴西與墨西哥運行在相同的技術堆疊上，也越來越共享同一套「大腦」。讓我向各位展示這代表什麼。

About a year ago, we introduced the NuFormer, our foundation model for financial behavior. Since then, we have focused on one objective, building a single AI platform that powers business and customer decisions across Nubank. That work spans every layer of the stack. We increased and upgraded our own GPU fleet, giving us full control of the compute layer. We expanded our architecture research efforts, and we continue building on one of our greatest advantages, more than a decade of transaction history across more than 100 million customers in three countries.

大約一年前，我們推出了 NuFormer——我們用於金融行為的基礎模型。自那時起，我們專注於一個目標：打造一個單一的 AI 平台，為 Nubank 全公司的業務與客戶決策提供動力。這項工作涵蓋技術堆疊的每一層。我們擴充並升級了自有 GPU 叢集，使我們能完全掌控算力層。我們也擴大了架構研究投入，並持續建立在我們最大的優勢之一之上：在三個國家、超過 1 億名客戶、十多年交易歷史所累積的資料。

That research is unlocking compounding gains in efficiency and model quality. We recently advanced NuFormer to a hybrid linear attention design, the same architectural approach behind frontier models like Kimi K3 and Qwen3.5, and we trained it with Muon, the same class of optimizer powering today's most efficient large language models.

這些研究正在解鎖效率與模型品質的複利式提升。我們近期將 NuFormer 推進到混合式線性注意力（hybrid linear attention）設計，這與 Kimi K3、Qwen3.5 等前沿模型背後的架構方法相同；同時我們使用 Muon 進行訓練，這也是驅動當今最高效率大型語言模型的同一類優化器。

By decoupling NuFormer's core backbone from specific downstream decisions, any improvement to the central model can instantly upgrade performance across all our business lines with a costly retraining. The latest generation quadrupled context length, training speed, and inference speed while reducing the cost of running models in production.

透過將 NuFormer 的核心骨幹與特定下游決策解耦，中央模型的任何改進都能立即提升我們所有業務線的表現，而無需昂貴的重新訓練。最新一代在將生產環境模型運行成本降低的同時，把上下文長度、訓練速度與推理速度都提升了四倍。

As we've scaled pre-training, the base models understanding of how our customers behave has become deep enough to change how we build every model on top of it. To give you one example, today, we can achieve the same predictive performance with 20 million fine-tuning data rows that previously required over $400 million, cutting development cycles from weeks to days.

隨著我們擴大預訓練規模，基礎模型對客戶行為的理解已足夠深入，進而改變我們在其之上建構每一個模型的方式。舉例來說，如今我們只需 2,000 萬筆微調資料列，就能達到過去需要超過 4 億筆資料才能達成的同等預測表現，將開發週期從數週縮短到數天。

The platform now reaches nearly every decision we make. We first deployed NuFormer in our flagship credit portfolio in Brazil. Through 2025, we replicated the model in Mexico, demonstrating that the platform generalizes across markets.

這個平台如今幾乎觸及我們做出的每一項決策。我們首先在巴西的旗艦信用投資組合中部署 NuFormer。到 2025 年，我們在墨西哥複製了該模型，證明此平台能跨市場泛化。

During the first half of this year, we extended it to unsecured lending in Brazil and to the next generation of our core credit models. We're now testing it in credit cards for SMEs and for our Colombian customers.

在今年上半年，我們將其延伸至巴西的無擔保放款，以及我們核心信用模型的下一代版本。我們目前也正在中小企業信用卡，以及哥倫比亞客戶的產品中進行測試。

But underwriting is only one application. Today, AI agents handle more than 60% of customer support conversation in Brazil with customer ratings at or above human parity. Beyond underwriting and customer support, we're using artificial intelligence to optimize decisions across credit, deposits, and growth, moving from predicting outcomes to determining the actions that maximize value under real-world constraints.

但承保只是其中一種應用。如今在巴西，AI 代理已處理超過 60% 的客服對話，且客戶評分達到或高於與真人客服相當的水準。除了承保與客服之外，我們也運用人工智慧來優化信貸、存款與成長等領域的決策，從「預測結果」走向「在真實世界限制條件下決定能使價值最大化的行動」。

And at the same understanding of transactions that predicts credit risk also predicts what a customer wants next. It allows us to recommend the products that maximize long-term customer value, personalize the app experience, and move toward our vision of an AI private banker.

而同一套對交易的理解，既能預測信用風險，也能預測客戶下一步想要什麼。它讓我們能推薦可最大化長期客戶價值的產品、個人化 App 體驗，並朝我們「AI 私人銀行家」的願景邁進。

NuFormer is also improving how we grow. As the model learns a representation of how every customer behaves, we use it to put each campaign in front of the customers most likely to find it useful, and more than 100 campaigns have already run this way. One AI platform now powers underwriting, customer support, optimization, and growth. Every improvement we make benefits every application built on top of it. We're incredibly excited about the progress Nubank has had to date, leveraging AI as a transformative technology and have strong confidence our approach will be a meaningful differentiation going forward.

NuFormer 也正在改善我們的成長方式。當模型學會表徵每位客戶的行為後，我們用它把每個行銷活動呈現在最可能覺得有用的客戶面前，而目前已有超過 100 個活動以此方式運行。如今，一個 AI 平台同時驅動承保、客服、最佳化與成長。我們所做的每一項改進，都能讓建立在其上的每個應用受益。我們對 Nubank 迄今在運用 AI 作為變革性技術方面的進展感到非常振奮，並且對我們的方法在未來成為重要差異化因素充滿信心。

Before we turn to our financial results, I want to say a few words about our CFO transition. As we announced in early June, Rob Livingston has succeeded Guilherme Lago as our Chief Financial Officer. Lago spent seven years with us, five of them as CFO, and he handed over the role at the strongest moment in our history with our first $1 billion quarter. He has been an incredible partner, and I am glad we will keep working together in his new role as special advisor.

在我們轉向財務結果之前，我想先談幾句關於我們 CFO 的交接。如同我們在 6 月初宣布的，Rob Livingston 已接任 Guilherme Lago，成為我們的首席財務官。Lago 與我們共事七年，其中五年擔任 CFO；他在我們歷史上最強勁的時刻交棒——我們首次達成單季 10 億美元。他一直是非常出色的夥伴，我也很高興我們將在他擔任特別顧問的新角色中繼續合作。

Rob has spent the past few weeks working alongside Lago and our teams, and we're very excited to be able to come with his significant experience. Rob, welcome. Over to you.

過去幾週，Rob 與 Lago 及我們的團隊並肩工作，我們非常期待他能帶來豐富的經驗。Rob，歡迎加入。接下來交給你。

Thank you, David. It is a privilege to step into this role at such an important moment for the company. Since joining Nubank, I have spent time with our teams across the organization. What has impressed me most is the customer obsession, the consistency of the business model, and the discipline with which it has been executed. I'm excited to help lead the next phase of Nubank's journey. And today, I'm pleased to walk you through our Q2 2026 financial results.

謝謝你，David。能在公司如此重要的時刻接任這個職位，我深感榮幸。自加入 Nubank 以來，我花時間與組織各部門的團隊交流。最令我印象深刻的是對客戶的極致投入、商業模式的一致性，以及執行上的紀律。我很期待協助領導 Nubank 旅程的下一階段。今天，我也很高興帶各位回顧我們 2026 年第二季的財務結果。

Let's start with our consolidated credit portfolio. The portfolio reached $39.4 billion, up 37% year over year and 5% sequentially. Growth remained broad-based. Credit cards increased 35% year over year to $26 billion. Unsecured lending grew 45% to $10.3 billion, and secured lending increased 30% to $3.1 billion.

讓我們先從我們的合併信貸投資組合開始。投資組合達到 394 億美元，年增 37%，季增 5%。成長仍然相當廣泛。信用卡年增 35% 至 260 億美元。無擔保放款成長 45% 至 103 億美元，而有擔保放款成長 30% 至 31 億美元。

Sequential growth remained solid while normalizing after a period of exceptionally strong expansion. Origination does not expand in a straight line, and we see that as a healthy dynamic. Throughout the quarter, our underwriting framework remained unchanged and growth remained strong relative to the broader market. As we'll discuss in the next few slides, we're comfortable with the quality of the portfolio and the performance of the vintages we're originating.

在經歷一段異常強勁的擴張期後，季增仍然穩健，同時逐步回歸常態。放款承作不會呈直線式擴張，我們認為這是健康的動態。整個季度中，我們的承保框架維持不變，且相較於整體市場，成長仍然強勁。如同我們在接下來幾張投影片將討論的，我們對投資組合的品質以及我們正在承作的各期別（vintage）表現感到放心。

Now turning to deposits. We ended the quarter with $45.3 billion in deposits, up 18% year over year and 6% sequentially, recovering the seasonal outflows we discussed last quarter. Brazil closed at $36.4 billion, Mexico at $5.7 billion, and Colombia at $3.3 billion. In Mexico, deposits declined modestly again this quarter, reflecting our ongoing deposit optimization strategy. This continues to improve our cost of funding while maintaining ample liquidity with our loan-to-deposit ratio still at just 35%.

接著談存款。本季末存款為 453 億美元，年增 18%、季增 6%，回補了我們上季提到的季節性資金流出。巴西為 364 億美元，墨西哥為 57 億美元，哥倫比亞為 33 億美元。在墨西哥，存款本季再度小幅下降，反映我們持續進行的存款最佳化策略。這持續改善我們的資金成本，同時在放款對存款比率仍僅 35% 的情況下，維持充足流動性。

Our cost of deposits was 88% of the interbank rate, essentially unchanged from last quarter and 3 percentage points lower than a year ago. Overall, we're pleased with both the growth and pricing of our deposits franchise across all three markets. As always, our objective is not simply to maximize deposits, but to build a resilient funding base that deepens customer relationships, supports profitable growth, and strengthens the long-term economics of the business.

我們的存款成本為同業拆借利率的 88%，與上季基本持平，且較一年前低 3 個百分點。整體而言，我們對三個市場的存款業務在成長與定價方面都感到滿意。一如既往，我們的目標不只是把存款做到最大，而是建立具韌性的資金基礎，以深化客戶關係、支持獲利性成長，並強化業務的長期經濟效益。

Net interest income reached $3.7 billion, up 9%, and net interest margin expanded 180 basis points to 22.9%. That is the result of what we laid out last quarter, the growth we put on the books, a mix weighted further towards unsecured lending, and the deliberate risk expansions we made.

淨利息收入達 37 億美元，成長 9%，淨利差擴大 180 個基點至 22.9%。這是我們上季所提出的策略所帶來的結果：我們新增入帳的放款成長、組合進一步偏向無擔保放款，以及我們所做的審慎風險擴張。

Cost of credit reduced quarter over quarter to $1.7 billion. Desenrola, the government debt renegotiation program, impacted this number by just about 5%. And even more important than the accounting impact, the program allowed us to help nearly 1.8 million customers renegotiate past due balances and get their finances back on track. With margin up and cost of credit down, risk-adjusted net interest margin expanded to a record 12.4%, up from 9.5%.

信用成本較上季下降至 17 億美元。Desenrola（政府債務重新協商計畫）對此數字的影響約為 5%。更重要的是，除了會計上的影響之外，該計畫讓我們得以協助近 180 萬名客戶重新協商逾期餘額，讓其財務狀況回到正軌。在利差上升且信用成本下降的情況下，風險調整後淨利差擴大至創紀錄的 12.4%，高於 9.5%。

I'm going to walk you through the drivers of this expansion in risk-adjusted net interest margin in more detail. That brings us to the risk-adjusted net interest margin bridge, and I want to focus on the expansion between Q1 and Q2. Credit income was a primary driver of risk-adjusted NIM expansion, contributing 178 basis points to the quarter-over-quarter increase compared to 152 basis points in Q1. This acceleration was driven by our strong loan growth in cards and unsecured lending in Q1 reflected in our improving loan-to-deposit ratio.

我將更詳細地帶大家了解風險調整後淨利差擴張的驅動因素。接著來到風險調整後淨利差的橋接分析，我想聚焦在第一季到第二季之間的擴張。信貸收入是風險調整後 NIM 擴張的主要驅動因素，對季增貢獻 178 個基點，相較之下第一季為 152 個基點。這項加速主要來自我們第一季在信用卡與無擔保放款的強勁成長，並反映在我們改善的放款對存款比率上。

Lower cost of credit contributed a further 115 basis points. The majority of the improvement in cost of credit came from the expected seasonal patterns we observed and disciplined underlying business performance rather than one-time items.

較低的信用成本另外貢獻了 115 個基點。信用成本改善的大部分來自我們觀察到的預期季節性型態，以及穩健且自律的核心業務表現，而非一次性因素。

Float income and funding costs both remained broadly neutral. Together, these dynamics explain the strong expansion in risk-adjusted NIM this quarter and continue to demonstrate the resilience of our underlying unit economics, supporting the sustainability of current levels going forward.

浮存金收入與資金成本整體而言皆大致中性。綜合而言，這些動態解釋了本季風險調整後 NIM 的強勁擴張，並持續展現我們基礎單位經濟的韌性，支持未來維持目前水準的可持續性。

Now let me turn to asset quality. As expected, our NPL metrics continue to follow their normal seasonal pattern. 15- to 90-day delinquencies improved 16 basis points to 4.8%. That improvement reflects several underlying dynamics, which I'll unpack on the next slide.

接著談資產品質。如預期，我們的不良貸款（NPL）指標持續遵循其正常的季節性型態。15 至 90 天逾期率改善 16 個基點至 4.8%。這項改善反映了幾個基本動態，我會在下一張投影片進一步拆解。

90-plus delinquencies increased 35 basis points to 6.9%, broadly reflecting the seasonal migration of first quarter early delinquencies into the 90-plus bucket. Taken together, these metrics are consistent with the seasonal dynamics we expected and continue to support our view that the underlying quality of the portfolio remains robust.

90 天以上逾期率上升 35 個基點至 6.9%，大致反映第一季早期逾期在季節性因素下移轉至 90 天以上區間。綜合來看，這些指標符合我們預期的季節性動態，並持續支持我們的觀點：投資組合的基本品質仍然穩健。

Looking at the drivers of early delinquency, this bridge explains why the 15- to 90-day ratio improved sequentially. Seasonality reduced the ratio by 37 basis points. Against that, our intentional risk expansions in the first half of the year added back 24 basis points. Those were deliberate decisions to serve cohorts with higher expected losses, but which also generate higher risk-adjusted returns, as you've seen in our risk-adjusted margin performance.

從早期逾期的驅動因素來看，這個橋接分析說明了為何 15 至 90 天比率在季比上改善。季節性因素使該比率下降 37 個基點。相對地，我們在上半年有意進行的風險擴張回補了 24 個基點。這些是為了服務預期損失較高的客群所做的刻意決策，但同時也能帶來更高的風險調整後報酬，正如你們在我們的風險調整後利差表現中所看到的。

Product mix and the remaining drivers were broadly neutral. We don't see any evidence in our portfolio of a broad-based weakening in consumer credit, yet we remain vigilant as always.

產品組合與其餘驅動因素整體而言大致中性。我們在投資組合中未看到消費者信貸出現廣泛性走弱的證據，但我們一如既往保持警覺。

Altogether, the 15- to 90-day ratio improved 16 basis points during the quarter. The allowance bridge tells a similar story from the balance sheet perspective. The allowance increased from $6.1 billion to $6.6 billion. The largest driver by far was portfolio growth, contributing $342 million. Under IFRS 9, we recognize expected credit losses at origination. So growth increases the allowance before the associated interest income is earned.

總體而言，15 至 90 天比率在本季改善 16 個基點。備抵金橋接分析從資產負債表角度也呈現類似的故事。備抵金由 61 億美元增加至 66 億美元。迄今為止最大的驅動因素是投資組合成長，貢獻 3.42 億美元。在 IFRS 9 下，我們在放款承作時即認列預期信用損失（ECL）。因此，成長會在相關利息收入賺取之前就先推升備抵金。

The intentional risk expansions we just discussed contributed another $170 million, while all other movements were immaterial, including Desenrola, which primarily affects recoveries rather than the ECL allowance due to the accounting treatment of renegotiated loans. Together, these two bridges reinforce the same message. The quarter's credit dynamics were driven by growth, seasonality, and disciplined risk expansion, not by any deterioration in the underlying quality of the portfolio.

我們剛才提到的有意風險擴張另外貢獻了 1.70 億美元，而其他所有變動皆不具重大性，包括 Desenrola；由於重新協商貸款的會計處理方式，該計畫主要影響回收款項，而非 ECL 備抵金。這兩個橋接分析共同強化同一個訊息。本季的信貸動態是由成長、季節性與自律的風險擴張所驅動，而非投資組合基本品質的任何惡化。

Our approach to provisioning and coverage remains disciplined and consistent. Starting with the chart on the left, we built allowances equal to 113% of new 15-plus delinquency formation during the quarter, broadly in line with our historical averages.

我們的提存與覆蓋做法仍然自律且一致。先看左側圖表，本季我們建立的備抵金相當於新增 15 天以上逾期形成額的 113%，大致符合我們的歷史平均水準。

The chart on the right reinforces the same point. Total coverage over NPL 90-plus stood at 244%, meaning we continue to carry allowances equal to almost 2.5 times our 90-plus balances. This provides a strong balance sheet cushion and remains consistent with the levels we've maintained over the past several years, even as the portfolio has continued to grow. Together, these two metrics reinforce an important point. While the portfolio continues to grow across products and customer segments, our provisioning philosophy remains disciplined and consistent through the cycle.

右側圖表也強化同一點。針對 90 天以上 NPL 的總覆蓋率為 244%，意味著我們持續持有相當於 90 天以上餘額近 2.5 倍的備抵金。這提供了強健的資產負債表緩衝，且與我們過去數年維持的水準一致，即使投資組合持續成長亦然。綜合這兩項指標，強化了一個重要觀點。即使投資組合在各產品與客群持續成長，我們的提存理念在景氣循環中仍保持自律且一致。

Now, one final point on credit risk, and this is an important one. As David mentioned, Nubank leads the Brazilian market in primary banking relationships. That leadership reflects the trust customers place in us. Combined with the analytical rigor of our underwriting models and the quality of the data generated through those relationships, it creates a structural edge in credit. You can see that clearly on this slide, showing the percent of credit card outstandings that are 90-plus days past due in Brazil.

最後再補充一點關於信用風險的重點，而且這點很重要。如 David 所提到，Nubank 在巴西市場的主要往來銀行關係方面居於領先地位。這樣的領先反映了客戶對我們的信任。再加上我們承保模型的分析嚴謹性，以及透過這些關係所產生的資料品質，形成了我們在信貸上的結構性優勢。你可以在這張投影片清楚看到，顯示在巴西信用卡未償餘額中逾期 90 天以上的比例。

Across every income band, our credit risk performance has been steady. This strong and stable performance is driven by customers who have Nubank as their primary banking relationship. The delinquency measures of these customers is roughly half the portfolio average.

在每一個收入區間，我們的信用風險表現都保持穩定。這種強勁且穩定的表現，來自於將 Nubank 作為其主要往來銀行的客戶。這些客戶的逾期指標約為投資組合平均值的一半。

What's the implication? That customer primacy is not only a growth and revenue advantage. It is also a credit advantage. A deeper relationship gives us richer behavioral data, strengthens our underwriting, and places Nubank at the top of our customers' payment hierarchy. Together, these factors produce consistently better credit outcomes. That is why we continue to view customer primacy as a key pillar of our credit superpower.

這代表什麼含意？客戶優先不僅是成長與營收上的優勢。同時也是信用上的優勢。更深的關係讓我們取得更豐富的行為數據、強化我們的授信審核，並使 Nubank 位居客戶付款優先順序的最前端。綜合這些因素，能持續帶來更佳的信用結果。這也是為什麼我們仍將客戶優先視為我們信用超能力的關鍵支柱。

Now turning to our income statement. Gross revenues reached nearly $5.9 billion, up 39% year over year. Gross profit reached $2.4 billion during the quarter, up 43% year over year and 25% sequentially. As credit normalized in line with its expected seasonal pattern, its contribution to gross profit increased 41% this quarter, while fees represented 25% and float 34%. These shares naturally fluctuate from quarter-to-quarter.

接著看我們的損益表。總營收接近 59 億美元，年增 39%。本季毛利達 24 億美元，年增 43%，季增 25%。隨著信用業務依其預期的季節性型態回歸常態，其對毛利的貢獻本季增加 41%，而手續費占 25%，浮存金占 34%。這些占比自然會在各季之間波動。

What matters is that all three components continue to grow in absolute dollars, reflecting the diversification of our business model. Looking ahead, we remain confident that credit, fees and float will continue to complement one another as drivers of long-term gross profit growth.

重要的是，這三個組成部分在絕對金額上都持續成長，反映我們商業模式的多元化。展望未來，我們仍有信心信用、手續費與浮存金將持續相互補強，成為長期毛利成長的驅動力。

Turning to operating leverage. Net revenues surpassed $4 billion for the first time, reaching $4.1 billion, up 8% sequentially. Operating expenses totaled $806 million, up 20% quarter over quarter as real estate and marketing expenses shifted from the first quarter into the second, alongside our continued investments in international expansion.

接著談營運槓桿。淨營收首次突破 40 億美元，達 41 億美元，季增 8%。營業費用合計 8.06 億美元，季增 20%，主因是不動產與行銷費用自第一季移轉至第二季入帳，同時我們也持續投資國際擴張。

As a result, our efficiency ratio ended the quarter at 19.5%. As we discussed last quarter, the 17.6% reported in Q1 was not a run rate. Roughly two-thirds of that improvement reflected temporary timing effects, which reversed as expected this quarter.

因此，我們的效率比率在本季末為 19.5%。如同我們上季所討論的，第一季揭露的 17.6% 並非常態水準。其中約三分之二的改善來自暫時性的時間點因素，而這些因素如預期在本季反轉。

Looking ahead, we continue to expect the efficiency ratio for the full year to average about 20%. More importantly, our long-term view remains unchanged. We will continue to invest while maintaining operating leverage as we scale.

展望未來，我們仍預期全年效率比率平均約為 20%。更重要的是，我們的長期觀點維持不變。在規模擴張的同時，我們將持續投資並維持營運槓桿。

To conclude, net income reached $1.1 billion for the first time in Nubank's history, up 17% from the first quarter and 49% year over year. More importantly, we delivered that result while sustaining a record 33% return on equity and continuing to invest across our three markets and in our long-term opportunities.

最後，淨利首次在 Nubank 歷史上達到 11 億美元，較第一季成長 17%，年增 49%。更重要的是，我們在維持創紀錄的 33% 股東權益報酬率的同時，仍持續在三個市場以及長期機會上投入資源，並交出這樣的成果。

I believe this quarter reflects the strength of the business model David described earlier. The investments we've made in technology, AI, underwriting, and customer experience continue to translate into profitable growth at scale. I'm excited to be part of this next chapter, and I look forward to continuing to build on this momentum.

我認為本季反映了 David 先前所描述之商業模式的強勁。我們在科技、AI、授信審核與客戶體驗上的投資，持續轉化為具規模的獲利成長。我很期待參與下一個篇章，也期待在這股動能上持續再接再厲。

And with that, we'll open the call for your questions.

接下來，我們將開放提問。

(Operator Instructions) I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Guilherme Souto, Investor Relations Officer.

(接線員指示) 我想將電話會議交給投資人關係主管 Guilherme Souto 先生。

Thank you, operator. Could you please open the line for Mr. Tito from Goldman Sachs?

謝謝，接線員。能否請您為高盛的 Tito 先生開線？

Congrats on the strong results. Just to clarify and understand a little bit the Desenrola impact because Rob, you mentioned a few different numbers. I think you said maybe 5% of provisions, but not sure if that necessarily impacted the bottom line.

恭喜繳出強勁的成績。我想釐清並更了解一下 Desenrola 的影響，因為 Rob 你提到了幾個不同的數字。我記得你說可能約占提存的 5%，但不確定這是否必然影響到最終獲利。

And just thinking because on prior calls, you had mentioned risk-adjusted margin getting back to 10.8%, well above that this quarter, very good performance there for sure. But just to understand, was there an impact from Desenrola on that risk-adjusted margin given the different moving parts? And then I'll have a follow-up after that. Thank you.

另外回想一下，先前的電話會議你們提到風險調整後利差會回到 10.8%，而本季明顯高於該水準，表現確實非常好。但我想了解的是，在各種變動因素之下，Desenrola 是否對該風險調整後利差造成影響？之後我還有一個追問。謝謝。

All right. Thanks so much, Tito. Let me take that, and good to hear from you again. Yes, I did mention that Desenrola had an impact of about 5% on our cost of credit. That's the main metric that we're looking at there. And so, as a result, it did also have an impact on our risk-adjusted net interest margin.

好的。非常感謝你，Tito。我來回答，也很高興再次聽到你的聲音。是的，我確實提到 Desenrola 對我們的信用成本約有 5% 的影響。這是我們在那裡主要關注的指標。因此，它也確實對我們的風險調整後淨利息利差造成了影響。

If you think about the progress that we made from last quarter to this quarter of almost 3% expansion in the metric, the majority of it did come from lending growth, and this was really due to the strong growth that we saw in Q4 last year, Q1 last year, and the matriculation of that into revenues in Q2.

如果你看我們從上季到本季在該指標上接近 3% 的擴張，其中大部分來自放款成長；這主要是因為我們在去年第四季、去年第一季看到的強勁成長，並在第二季逐步轉化為營收。

Now the cost of credit also contributed 115 basis points, and you're right that Desenrola would be part of that. It's a minority of the impact. The majority did come from seasonality, but also just really solid underlying credit performance.

另外，信用成本也貢獻了 115 個基點；你說得沒錯，Desenrola 會包含在其中。但它只占影響的一小部分。主要影響來自季節性因素，以及整體而言非常穩健的基礎信用表現。

Okay. No, very helpful, Rob. And I think also just to think in terms of the context, what everybody is worried about is going into next year. I mean, you mentioned overall credit quality trends look good, you feel comfortable. But given the macro that we're seeing in Brazil, how do you think about the growth outlook maybe going into 2027 and the ability to this level of risk-adjusted NIMs?

了解。很有幫助，Rob。我想從背景脈絡來看，大家擔心的是進入明年之後的情況。你提到整體信用品質趨勢看起來不錯、你們也覺得安心。但考量我們在巴西看到的總體環境，你們如何看待可能一路到 2027 年的成長展望，以及維持這樣水準的風險調整後淨利息利差的能力？

Hi, Tito. David here. So as we've said a few times to investors, we don't take a directional view necessarily on the economy. Our base assumption when we underwrite a loan is that the future will be worse than the past, that things will actually be much worse than everything we have seen.

嗨，Tito。我是 David。如同我們多次對投資人所說，我們不會對經濟走勢做方向性的押注。我們在核貸時的基本假設是未來會比過去更糟，情況實際上會比我們所見過的一切都更差。

So a lot of -- everything, every single underwriting decision already assumes a deterioration by default and has a pretty significant cushion in terms of what do we need to see for that decision to continue to be NPV positive. Obviously, we're in an environment where there is a lot of caution. We are actively looking at every single sign that we have. So far, we don't really see any significant or structural deterioration in our numbers, and we continue to operate with very significant cushion in this environment.

因此，所有——每一項授信決策在預設上都已假設會惡化，並且在「需要看到什麼條件，該決策才能持續為 NPV 正值」方面，留有相當顯著的緩衝。顯然，我們正處於一個非常謹慎的環境。我們正積極檢視我們掌握的每一個訊號。截至目前，我們的數據並未看到任何顯著或結構性的惡化，而在這樣的環境下我們仍以非常充足的緩衝在運作。

We are also in a position where we -- while we have a large consumer base, we're still a very small percentage of the market. As we've said in the last call and this call, we have 7% market share of that profit pool. So we're still a small player in that big market, and we get to cherry pick our customers, cherry pick them with loans and products that have very short-term duration, which gives us a huge amount of ability to react quickly, have a lot of conviction on a lot of the underwriting capabilities, as we mentioned.

此外，我們也處在一個位置：雖然我們擁有龐大的消費者基礎，但我們在市場中仍只占很小的比例。如同我們在上一通與這一通電話會議所說，我們在那個利潤池的市占率為 7%。因此，在這個龐大的市場裡我們仍是小型參與者，我們可以精挑細選客戶，並以期限非常短的貸款與產品來服務他們，這讓我們具備很強的快速反應能力，並對多項授信能力（如我們所提到的）有很高的把握。

And then primarily, we have this huge advantage, as Rob mentioned, of being the largest primary bank account in the country today. Over 60% of our mass market customers use us as their primary bank account. So that's a huge advantage because, as Rob mentioned, positions us effectively as being senior in the credit stack of a customer.

再者，正如 Rob 所提到的，我們還有一項巨大優勢：我們如今是全國最大的主要銀行帳戶。超過 60% 的大眾市場客戶把我們當作他們的主要銀行帳戶。這是一項很大的優勢，因為如 Rob 所說，這等於讓我們在客戶的信用結構中處於更優先的位置。

And so, when you combine strong analytics, significant cushion being the primary bank account and having that seniority, then there is a lot of conditions for us to continue growing at a very good pace. I won't necessarily give you a specific number of growth, but we continue to see the conditions to continue growing and taking share as we use a lot of these levers to do that very effectively.

因此，當你把強大的分析能力、充足的緩衝、作為主要銀行帳戶以及具備那種優先順位結合起來，我們就具備許多條件，能以非常良好的速度持續成長。我不一定會給你一個具體的成長數字，但我們仍看到持續成長並提升市占的條件；我們會運用許多這些槓桿，以非常有效的方式做到這一點。

And to your question on net interest margin or risk-adjusted net interest margin for the foreseeable future, we see it as being in the same region as where we are today. We think that it's sustainable.

至於你關於未來可預見期間的淨利差（NIM）或風險調整後淨利差的問題，我們認為它將維持在與我們目前大致相同的區間。我們認為這是可持續的。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Jorge Kuri from Morgan Stanley?

接線員，請為摩根士丹利的 Jorge Kuri 先生開通線路，好嗎？

Congrats on the great numbers. I wanted, I guess, to go back to the risk-adjusted NIM at 12.4% and maybe tie this to the usage of AI and the sophistication on your credit line increases and overall, your ability to take on more risk with lower losses.

恭喜交出亮眼的數字。我想回到風險調整後 NIM 為 12.4% 這點，並且可能把它和你們使用 AI、在提高授信額度方面的精細化程度，以及整體而言你們在更低損失下承擔更多風險的能力連結起來。

And now that you've seen maybe a full-year vintage of people that you improve their offer with AI models and that you've been tracking them, would you mind sharing some of the KPIs that you've seen? And to what extent they're tied to this 12% risk-adjusted margins because you evidently seem very confident about this being the new level, not only you said it, Rob, right now, but also in an interview with Bloomberg earlier.

另外，既然你們可能已經看過一整年的客群分群（vintage）——也就是你們用 AI 模型改善其報價/額度並持續追蹤的客戶——你們介意分享一些你們觀察到的 KPI 嗎？以及這些 KPI 在多大程度上與這 12% 的風險調整後利差相關，因為你們顯然對這會成為新的水準非常有信心——不只是你剛剛說的，Rob，對吧——你也在稍早接受彭博採訪時提到過。

And in the past, we have seen volatility in that number based on mix. And so, I guess, yeah, I just want to get to a little bit more of the KPIs that are driving that, to what extent is the AI models, and get more comfort on that being a floor from here. Thank you.

而在過去，我們也看過這個數字會因為組合（mix）而出現波動。所以我想，是的，我只是想更深入了解推動它的一些 KPI：AI 模型在其中的貢獻有多大，以及讓我們更安心這會是從現在起的底部水準。謝謝。

Yeah. So thank you so much for the question, Jorge. I think a few things to say there. The first is that it certainly is the case that our AI sort of generated models and assisted models are more powerful than traditional logistic regression models that is incontrovertible. And we are tracking them, though, in the exact same way that we would have tracked our historical models.

好的。非常感謝你的提問，Jorge。我想這裡有幾點要說。第一，確實我們由 AI 產生的模型以及 AI 輔助的模型，比傳統的邏輯斯迴歸模型更強大，這點無可爭辯。不過，我們追蹤它們的方式，與我們過去追蹤歷史模型的方式完全相同。

We're looking at the degree of predictability, the variance at the low end and the high end of the predictive range, as well as the outcomes across both back testing as well as forward testing of that model in production. So the macro point is that our risk approach and our credit monitoring hasn't actually shifted in this dynamic. And in fact, we are very happy to continue to have that same level of discipline going forward.

我們會看可預測性的程度、在預測區間低端與高端的變異度，以及在回溯測試與前瞻測試（模型上線後在生產環境中的表現）兩方面的結果。所以宏觀來看，我們的風險方法與授信監控在這個動態下其實並沒有改變。而且事實上，我們很高興未來能持續維持同樣程度的紀律。

I would correct one thing you said, though, where you said that 12% is a floor. I didn't say that it was a floor. I said we'd be in that ballpark. And so, I don't want to overcommit there. But what we are seeing is that our strategy that has been partially enabled by stronger models to make intentional risk expansions that produce more risk-adjusted margin is paying off, and that's what we're seeing for the foreseeable future.

不過我想更正你剛才說的一點：你提到 12% 是底部。我並沒有說那是底部。我說的是我們會在那個大致區間。所以我不想在這裡過度承諾。但我們看到的是：我們的策略——部分得益於更強的模型——去做有意識的風險擴張、以產生更高的風險調整後利差，正在奏效，而這也是我們在可預見未來所看到的情況。

I think, Jorge, the additional factor obviously to take into account is the increasing LDR and what LDR brings to the business model. This is something we mentioned a few times that if you look at our balance sheet, it continues to be very unlevered. You'll see in slide 16, how that LDR has evolved over the past few quarters.

我想，Jorge，另一個顯然需要納入考量的因素是 LDR（貸存比）的提升，以及 LDR 對商業模式帶來的影響。我們之前提過幾次：如果你看我們的資產負債表，它仍然是非常低槓桿的。你可以在第 16 頁投影片看到，過去幾個季度 LDR 的演變。

Q1 had significant growth, but then a large cost of credit, mainly because of seasonality. As we go into Q2, we start seeing the benefits of a lot of the growth and the sort of optimization of the balance sheet.

第一季成長顯著，但信貸成本也很高，主要是因為季節性因素。進入第二季後，我們開始看到大量成長以及資產負債表優化所帶來的效益。

And there's a significant opportunity going forward. We'll continue to optimize the balance sheet, obviously, as we continue to grow our credit portfolio. And that just will simply be reallocating a lot of deposits that they are earning CDI or rate towards a much higher-yielding asset, and that obviously falls directly into margin and into ROE. So that's a very strong dynamic that is also happening within the business model.

而未來仍有很大的機會。隨著我們持續擴大信貸投資組合，我們也會持續優化資產負債表。這基本上就是把大量目前賺取 CDI 或利率的存款，重新配置到收益率更高的資產上，而這顯然會直接反映在利差與 ROE 上。因此，這也是商業模式內部正在發生的一個非常強的動能。

Thank you, David and Rob. That was very clear, and congrats again on the numbers.

謝謝你，David 和 Rob。說得非常清楚，也再次恭喜這些數字。

Operator, could you open the line for Mr. Eduardo Rosman from BTG Pactual?

接線員，請為 BTG Pactual 的 Eduardo Rosman 先生開通線路，好嗎？

Congrats on the numbers. I have a question for David regarding AI. I think we read recently that you became a part of the Board of OpenAI. So it would be great if you could share with us how do you believe you can help OpenAI, but more importantly, how this experience might help you here at Nubank. Thanks.

恭喜這些數字。我有一個關於 AI 的問題想請教 David。我想我們最近讀到你加入了 OpenAI 的董事會。所以如果你能和我們分享你認為你可以如何幫助 OpenAI，但更重要的是，這段經驗可能如何幫助你在 Nubank 的工作，那就太好了。謝謝。

Sure. Thanks, Edu. So obviously, this is not OpenAI's earnings call, so I won't get into too much of a lot. But I think effectively is we discussed very openly that -- internally and externally that we think artificial intelligence is the most important technology transformation in our history. And it will be one of the most technologically impactful shift in any business, in any industry around the world. So this is a global trend and a very powerful trend.

當然。謝謝，Edu。很明顯，這不是 OpenAI 的法說會，所以我不會談太多細節。但我想本質上是：我們一直非常公開地——不論在內部或外部——討論我們認為人工智慧是我們歷史上最重要的技術變革。而且它將是全球任何企業、任何產業中，最具技術影響力的轉變之一。所以這是一個全球性的趨勢，也是非常強大的趨勢。

Businesses are going to see significant transformation. And it's early days, but we're seeing it very clearly inside Nubank. We've discussed here today a lot of the different applications from credit and underwriting, but even customer-facing. And we're in the middle of a significant transformation across our organization around how we're using, putting AI in front and center as a technological trend, and what will deliver as effectively an advantage.

企業將會看到顯著的轉型。現在仍是早期階段，但我們在 Nubank 內部已經非常清楚地看到了。我們今天在這裡談了很多不同的應用，從信貸與核貸（underwriting），甚至到面向客戶的應用。而我們正處於一場跨組織的重大轉型之中：我們如何使用 AI、把 AI 放在核心位置作為技術趨勢，以及它將如何有效地帶來競爭優勢。

So from that perspective, for me, getting closer to a company like OpenAI obviously provides a very interesting insight. Me personally also, I think it's a great opportunity to make sure that some of these great AI companies builds something great for humanity. And I have a huge amount of respect for the OpenAI team and the way they are executing this mission.

因此，從這個角度來看，讓我更貼近像 OpenAI 這樣的公司，顯然能提供非常有意思的洞見。就我個人而言，我也認為這是一個很好的機會，確保這些優秀的 AI 公司能打造出對人類有益的成果。我非常尊敬 OpenAI 團隊，以及他們執行這項使命的方式。

So I think it's a win-win. And clearly, I mean, it's early days, but I hope I can be able to contribute significantly to the way the organization is executing.

所以我認為這是雙贏。而且很明顯，我是說，現在還在早期，但我希望我能對組織的執行方式做出顯著貢獻。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Pedro Leduc from Itau BBA?

接線員，請為 Itau BBA 的 Pedro Leduc 先生開通線路，好嗎？

Two questions. The first, a little more homework technical. The portfolio that you now have with clients under the government renegotiation program, that appeared in Stage 3, maybe in your personal loan book, and I'm assuming with a little bit less expected default, loss given default, given the coverage. Just that's the homework question as I'm trying to interpret here the movements.

兩個問題。第一個比較偏作業性的技術問題。你們目前在政府再協商計畫下、與客戶相關的投資組合，出現在第 3 階段（Stage 3），可能是在你們的個人貸款帳簿中；我假設在有覆蓋（coverage）的情況下，預期違約率（expected default）與違約損失率（loss given default）會稍微低一些。這就是那個作業題，因為我在嘗試解讀這裡的變動。

And then the second, a little bit back to business. In the prepared remarks, when going over the unsecured lending, you mentioned the pace. You made some comments around that. If you can give us a little bit more color. And I also want on your latest update on how you are on payroll, including private payroll. Thank you.

第二個則回到業務面。在事先準備的講稿中，談到無擔保放款時，你提到了節奏（pace）。你對此做了一些評論。如果你能提供更多細節說明。另外我也想了解你們在薪轉（payroll）方面的最新進展，包括民營企業薪轉。謝謝。

Okay. Well, let me start with the technical question there. There was a small impact on expected credit losses, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, but it wasn't material, less than $10 million. And it does appear in Stage 3 of lending is where it shows up.

好的。那我先從技術問題開始。如同我在事先準備的講稿中提到的，預期信用損失（ECL）有一點小幅影響，但並不重大，少於 1,000 萬美元。而它確實是呈現在放款的第 3 階段（Stage 3）中。

I do think that we are going to see a little bit more impact from Desenrola in Q3, but we've already seen more than four-fifth of that hitting us in or benefiting us in Q2. And I hope that answers your question.

我確實認為我們在第三季會看到 Desenrola 帶來更多一些影響，但我們已經看到其中超過五分之四在第二季就已經反映在我們身上——或是說在第二季就已經對我們帶來效益。希望這回答了你的問題。

The portfolio that you now have under the program, it is a Stage 3 portfolio or starts in Stage 1?

您目前在該計畫下持有的投資組合，是第3階段（Stage 3）投資組合，還是從第1階段（Stage 1）開始？

Oh, right. So that -- no, it's in the Stage 3 portfolio.

喔，對。所以那個——不，是在第3階段投資組合。

Yeah, sure. And on private payroll, we are accelerating month over month. We are slowly getting more comfortable with the product. There's been a significant progress in how the product is set up in the Brazilian market, the way companies are able to get the collateral, the way the systems are working. So as we've said many times, we found asymmetric -- an asymmetric bet to go too fast too quickly on a product that has so many question marks.

對，當然。而在私營薪資扣繳（private payroll）方面，我們正逐月加速。我們也在逐步對這個產品更有信心。在巴西市場，這個產品的設計方式、企業取得擔保品的方式、以及系統運作方式，都有顯著進展。所以如同我們多次提到的，我們認為在一個仍有許多問號的產品上，過快推進是一個不對稱——一個不對稱的賭注。

We think we're getting close to a system that makes a lot of sense, and we are accelerating. And ultimately, the lowest cost provider and whoever treats the customer best will win this market. And so, we think we're extremely well positioned to be one of the leading players in this market over the next 18, 24 months. So we have -- and we think it's a good thing for the market.

我們認為我們正接近一個非常合理的系統，因此正在加速。最終，成本最低的供應商，以及最能善待客戶的業者，將贏得這個市場。因此，我們認為在未來18到24個月內，我們非常有利於成為這個市場的領先玩家之一。所以我們——而且我們認為這對市場是件好事。

The other part that is also starting to change slightly is counter to most people's intuitions, the first people that started taking these loans were very high risk. These were not the use cases that you would expect of people refinancing -- low-risk people refinancing high-cost debt. It was actually very high-risk customers.

另一個也開始略有變化的部分，與多數人的直覺相反：最早開始借這些貸款的人風險非常高。這並不是你會預期的使用情境——也就是低風險的人用來再融資高成本負債。實際上是非常高風險的客戶。

And so, from that perspective, it just didn't make a lot of sense for us to be opening the door for that as we understand the true level of risk. And there is a bit of a change of behavior. Customers actually -- good customers actually seeing the opportunity to refinance, then this becomes a much more attractive product for consumers.

因此，從那個角度來看，在我們理解真實風險水準之前，對我們而言就不太合理去為此打開大門。而現在行為確實出現了一些改變。客戶其實——好的客戶其實看到了再融資的機會，於是這就成為對消費者更具吸引力的產品。

We would love to do the trade. There's been a lot of conversations that we are fearful of cannibalizing ourselves or that we don't want it to be successful. Like we'll be super happy being able to refinance all of the customers that want a lower interest rate for a product that has that collateral, it would be very beneficial for us to have a more diversification in our portfolio.

我們很樂意做這筆交易。外界有很多討論說我們擔心自我蠶食，或是我們不希望它成功。其實如果能讓所有想要更低利率、且有該擔保品的產品的客戶進行再融資，我們會非常高興；對我們而言，投資組合更分散化將非常有利。

It would have more resilience. It would be less cyclical. So strategically, it's a product that we are very -- we think in the long run will be very good, and we are very well positioned to do it. We just are going at the right pace, and we're getting more comfortable by the month.

它會更具韌性。也會較不具週期性。所以在策略上，這是一個我們非常——我們認為長期會非常好的產品，而且我們也非常有條件去做。我們只是以正確的節奏推進，並且每個月都更有把握。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Yuri Fernandes from JPMorgan?

接線員，請為摩根大通（JPMorgan）的Yuri Fernandes先生開線，謝謝。

Congrats, David. Congrats, Rob. I have a question regarding the over $1 billion net income, and congrats on that, David. I was checking here at Itau Unibanco, one of the leading banks in Brazil. And when I look to the retail operation, Itau is around $1.1 billion, right? So you are very close to that.

恭喜你，David。恭喜你，Rob。我有一個關於淨利超過10億美元的問題，也恭喜你，David。我在這裡看了巴西領先銀行之一的Itaú Unibanco。當我看它的零售業務時，Itaú大約是11億美元，對吧？所以你們非常接近。

And my question is how to continue increasing this net income, David? I know your ROA are higher, you have better cost to income. You have this efficiency tailwind, but you are getting very big, right? So if you can help us understand if this is just an ARPAC normalization, you have like your mature cohorts coming or it's about new products or is this about Mexico. So trying to congratulate you on the $1 billion, but I also ask how to keep growing this sizable profitability. Thank you.

我的問題是，David，接下來要如何持續提高這個淨利？我知道你們的ROA更高、成本收入比更好。你們有這個效率提升的順風，但你們規模也變得非常大了，對吧？所以如果你能幫我們理解：這只是ARPAC的正常化、你們成熟批次（cohorts）帶來的結果，還是來自新產品，或是來自墨西哥？所以一方面恭喜你們達到10億美元，但我也想問，如何持續成長這麼可觀的獲利能力。謝謝。

Sure. A couple of points. You are right that at some point, we're not there yet. At some point, we're going to run out of Brazilian customers. We have been saying that for about four years.

當然。幾點說明。你說得對，在某個時點——我們還沒到那裡。在某個時點，我們會把巴西客戶開發到差不多了。我們大概四年前就一直這麼說。

We continue to get close to 1 million customers in Brazil every quarter. And so we're -- sorry, every month. And so, we're in very good shape in terms of user count, but there will be a time where the number of Brazilian customers will decrease.

我們在巴西每季持續接近新增100萬名客戶。所以我們——抱歉，是每個月。因此在用戶數方面我們狀況非常好，但終究會有一個時點，巴西新增客戶數會下降。

Then the opportunity is ARPAC. And as you'll see in slide 6, the ARPAC expansion is pretty significantly. We've gone from 13 to 17. A lot of the incumbent banks, if you look at the ARPAC, they are at 40 to 45. We don't think necessarily we'll get to 40 or 45 because there is a lot of fees that we don't charge.

接下來的機會就是ARPAC。如你在第6頁投影片會看到，ARPAC擴張相當顯著。我們已經從13提升到17。許多既有銀行，如果你看它們的ARPAC，大約在40到45。我們不一定認為我們會到40或45，因為有很多費用我們不收。

There might be a lot of products that we don't offer. But we'll certainly -- there is significant upside from the 17 and above. And when you look at all the cohorts, customers tour hat have been with us for seven, eight years, they're already in the mid-20s ARPAC and high ARPAC. So from that perspective, there's going to be -- a lot of the opportunity in Brazil is to continue increasing ARPAC.

也可能有很多產品我們不提供。但我們肯定——從17往上仍有顯著上行空間。而當你看所有批次，與我們合作七、八年的客戶，他們的ARPAC已經在20多的中段，甚至更高。因此，從這個角度來看，巴西很大一部分的機會在於持續提高ARPAC。

Then we have the opportunity in Mexico and Colombia. As we've said, we think Mexico, a base case for Mexico is a business that could be 60%, 70% of Brazil. If utilization in Mexico happens and a real-time payment system works, could be as big of Brazil. It's a lower population but has 30% higher income per capita. And the ARPACs that we're seeing in Mexico are equal or above Brazil.

接著我們在墨西哥與哥倫比亞也有機會。如我們所說，我們認為墨西哥的基本情境（base case）可以做到巴西的60%、70%。如果墨西哥的使用率提升、且即時支付系統運作順暢，規模甚至可能與巴西一樣大。墨西哥人口較少，但人均收入高30%。而我們在墨西哥看到的ARPAC與巴西相當或更高。

So significant opportunity in Mexico. There is also a significant opportunity in Colombia. Our business there is significantly overperforming, and we're very happy with the opportunity there. So there is a huge amount of avenues of growth.

所以墨西哥有很大的機會。哥倫比亞也有很大的機會。我們在那裡的業務表現顯著超出預期，我們對那裡的機會非常滿意。因此成長的途徑非常多。

Going back a little bit to Brazil. What we do see is that we need to have a better segmented portfolio, and that's why we announced Croma. Now we have three core segments and value propositions to serve better other segments like Super Core and high income, where we already have a lot of customers, but we're not serving them well.

再回到巴西稍微談一下。我們確實看到我們需要一個分層更清晰的投資組合，這也是我們宣布Croma的原因。現在我們有三個核心客群與價值主張，以便更好地服務其他族群，例如Super Core與高收入族群；我們在那裡已經有很多客戶，但我們服務得不夠好。

We have a low share of wallet. We gave them -- they came for a credit card. We gave them a very low credit limit. And because of the sophistication and improvement in our models, we're finally able to improve our credit underwriting capability for these segments and the value proposition for a lot of the products.

我們的錢包占有率（share of wallet）很低。他們是為了信用卡而來。我們給了他們非常低的信用額度。而隨著我們模型的成熟與提升，我們終於能改善對這些族群的授信審核能力，以及多項產品的價值主張。

And then finally, SME, we highlighted here on slide 7. This is a blue ocean. This is a big opportunity. We are already the largest SME player in Brazil, over 6.5 million SMEs. We're just beginning to monetize that entire base. And the cost structure advantage that we have, especially for the small businesses is pretty significant.

最後是中小企業（SME），我們在第7頁投影片也特別強調。這是一片藍海。這是一個很大的機會。我們已經是巴西最大的SME玩家，擁有超過650萬家SME。我們才剛開始把整個客群基礎變現。而我們的成本結構優勢，特別是對小型企業而言，相當顯著。

So net-net, yes, over $1 billion in net income, but we're looking at a gross profit pool of $100 billion from that perspective and a lot of opportunities still to grow even in our core market like Brazil.

所以總結來說，是的，淨利超過10億美元；但從這個角度看，我們面對的是1,000億美元的毛利池（gross profit pool），而即便在巴西這樣的核心市場，我們仍有許多成長機會。

Super clear. If I may, just a follow-up on Croma. Can you share any market share you have today and any goal you have for this segment?

非常清楚。如果可以的話，我想就 Croma 再追問一下。你們目前在這個細分市場的市占率大概是多少？以及你們對這個細分市場有沒有任何目標？

I can tell you that we already have three out of five Brazilians in this bracket as customers of new. So it's not our opportunity necessarily we have to go out in the market and acquire these customers and spend a lot of money on marketing. They're already inside our base.

我可以告訴你，我們在這個區間的客戶中，已經有五個巴西人裡的三個是我們的新客戶。所以這不一定是我們必須到市場上去獲取這些客戶、花很多行銷費用的機會。他們其實已經在我們的客戶基礎裡了。

We just haven't treated them as good as they deserve. We just haven't given them the product set and the bundles that they should need. And so, that is the opportunity. There's a huge opportunity to increase the share of wallet within those three to five Brazilians that represent -- that exist in that base.

只是我們還沒有像他們應得的那樣好好對待他們。我們還沒有提供他們所需要的產品組合與套裝方案。所以，機會就在這裡。在那三到五個巴西人（也就是存在於我們客群基礎中的那群人）之中，提高錢包份額有非常大的機會。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Geoffrey Elliott from Autonomous?

接線員，請幫我們開放 Autonomous 的 Geoffrey Elliott 先生的線路，好嗎？

I noticed that the number of employees is down from 10,500 to 10,400, which doesn't sound like a big change, but it had been growing pretty quickly up until now. What are your hiring plans? And how is AI allowing you to use the workforce more effectively? Thank you.

我注意到員工人數從 10,500 降到 10,400，聽起來變化不大，但在此之前一直成長得相當快。你們的招募計畫是什麼？以及 AI 如何讓你們更有效率地運用人力？謝謝。

Sure. I mean, I think we -- as you might remember, we announced getting back to the office end of last year, and that announcement caused a meaningful amount of people to decide not to work at Nubank anymore. So there was some attrition because of that. We have rehired effectively a lot of that attrition. And so, you end up being something about flat.

當然。我的意思是，我想我們——如你可能記得的，我們在去年年底宣布回到辦公室，而那個宣布讓相當一部分人決定不再在 Nubank 工作。所以因此出現了一些人員流失。我們也已經有效地把那部分流失的人力補回來了很多。因此最後看起來大致持平。

Looking forward, we are seeing a huge amount of productivity increase with AI, and we're very excited about the potential that that creates. But the list of things that we also want to do, the list of things that we want to build is also infinite. And so, it just opens up a larger opportunity of things that we can try.

展望未來，我們看到 AI 帶來非常大的生產力提升，我們也對它所創造的潛力感到非常興奮。但同時，我們想做的事情清單、想打造的東西清單也是無限的。所以它只是打開了更大的機會，讓我們可以去嘗試更多事情。

So net-net, I don't see us significantly increasing that number. I also don't necessarily see us decreasing the number that feels more or less right, but it's certainly 10,400 employees that will be 2, 3, 4, 5x more productive over the next few years as we really integrate more AI with that.

所以總體而言（net-net），我不認為我們會大幅增加這個人數。我也不一定認為我們會降低；這個規模大致是合適的。

And then obviously, the output of that headcount will be much larger than what we're able to provide today. And so, we're very excited about that.

然後很明顯地，這個人力規模的產出將會比我們今天能提供的多得多。所以我們對此非常興奮。

And then staying on headcount, thinking about the expansion employees in the US are pretty expensive. You're moving into the US. How far do you see the headcount shifting towards the US?

接著延續人力的話題，考慮到在美國擴編員工成本相當高。你們正在進入美國。你們預期人力配置會在多大程度上往美國移動？

I don't think it's going to be a significant change in the way we are distributed today where our majority of employees are in Brazil and Latin America. We are hiring more in the US and specifically in certain areas where we are able to find a certain level of talent and experience that we just cannot find in Latin America, especially around AI.

我不認為這會對我們目前的分布造成重大改變；我們的大多數員工仍在巴西與拉丁美洲。我們確實會在美國增加招募，特別是在某些領域，我們能找到某種程度的人才與經驗，而這些在拉丁美洲就是找不到，尤其是 AI 相關。

So we will increase the number of headcount we have in the US, but it will not move the needle. I mean, it might go from 1% to 2% total, and that's sort of the level of changes. But also, obviously, it's talent that we would be adding that will be very impactful. And then as we launch US as a market and we start growing that market, then there'll be more hiring in the US. And hopefully, we can be very productive and efficient as we launch our market and relying on a lot of the AI capabilities that we're using.

所以我們會增加在美國的人力數量，但不會對整體造成明顯影響。我的意思是，可能只是從總人數的 1% 到 2% 之類的變化幅度。但當然，我們新增的會是影響力很大的關鍵人才。另外，當我們把美國作為一個市場推出並開始擴張時，美國當地也會有更多招募。也希望在推出市場的過程中，我們能非常高效且具生產力，並仰賴我們正在使用的許多 AI 能力。

Could you please open the line from Mr. Daniel Vaz from Safra, please?

請幫我們開放 Safra 的 Daniel Vaz 先生的線路，好嗎？

Again, welcome to Nubank. David, on your slide 11, you show deposit and credit financing. Price optimization still in testing with AI. So I was wondering on the credit card financing, where is the biggest price for you there? I mean, is to reprice the existing revolvers, maybe you're using personalized rate to convert more transactors who never did credit card finance before. So you want to offer them a cheap interest rate there. So trying to understand where is the biggest price there for you on credit card finance.

再次歡迎來到 Nubank。David，在你第 11 張投影片，你展示了存款與信貸融資。價格最佳化仍在用 AI 測試中。所以我想問，在信用卡融資方面，對你們而言最大的「定價」機會在哪裡？我的意思是，是重新定價既有的循環戶（revolvers）嗎？還是你們可能用個人化利率，去轉化更多以前從未做過信用卡分期/融資的交易型客戶（transactors）？也就是你們想在那裡提供較低的利率。所以想了解，信用卡融資這塊對你們最大的定價機會到底在哪裡。

And second, on deposits, right? So your loan to deposit is very low, as you mentioned. So how should we read that primarily as a funding cost lever? So you want to bring your funding costs down, so you stimulate people to put deposits there on your platform or doesn't have to do anything with that.

第二個問題是存款，對吧？如你提到的，你們的貸存比非常低。那我們應該如何解讀這件事——主要把它視為降低資金成本的槓桿嗎？也就是你們想把資金成本降下來，所以刺激大家把存款放在你們的平台上？還是這其實無關？

So you want to bring more deposits, maybe pay more for people who doesn't have deposits today. So kind of understand that where is the biggest price for AI applicable in these two businesses.

所以你們想帶進更多存款，可能對目前沒有存款的人支付更高的利率。想請你們說明，在這兩個業務上，AI 最適用、最大的定價機會在哪裡。

Sure. So just as a reminder, one of the most important metrics for us is Net Promoter Score, NPS, or a number of different metrics around product quality. And we seek to -- we think that the way our model works is that if we build the very best product in the market, then customers will come and financial results will follow. So a lot of this optimization is not necessarily about minimizing cost, but it could also be about optimizing quality.

好的。先提醒一下，對我們而言最重要的指標之一是淨推薦值（Net Promoter Score，NPS），以及一系列與產品品質相關的指標。我們追求——我們認為我們的模式運作方式是：如果我們打造市場上最好的產品，客戶就會來，財務結果也會隨之而來。所以這些最佳化不一定是為了把成本壓到最低，也可能是為了最佳化品質。

And the sense or the opportunity is that whenever we have a price, be it a price for a loan or a credit product or be it a yield that we offer in a deposit, or truly any other product that has a price, then every single customer we're going to have a price which will maximize that equation of quality and cost, being able to offer higher quality at a lower cost. And so, that is the analytical exercise that we're increasingly investing in.

其核心概念或機會在於：只要我們有一個價格——不論是貸款或信用產品的價格，或是我們在存款上提供的收益率，或任何其他有定價的產品——那麼對每一位客戶，我們都會有一個能讓「品質與成本」這個方程式達到最大化的價格，也就是能以更低成本提供更高品質。因此，這就是我們正在加大投入的分析工作。

Specifically on the deposit, we just get to an equation whether we -- it would be our decision to decide if we want to optimize cost, then we would be able to optimize that funding cost, but we would know specifically what would be -- what we're giving up in terms of quality and competitiveness in that opportunity.

就存款而言，我們會得到一個方程式：如果我們的決策是要最佳化成本，那我們就能最佳化資金成本；但我們也會清楚知道，為了這個機會，在品質與競爭力方面我們具體會犧牲什麼。

So I wouldn't necessarily think in the short term that this will drive an improvement in funding costs because we might decide to reinvest all of those gains back into the customer, especially in countries like Mexico, where we're so early and Colombia and Brazil in some of these segments, we want -- we are still very much on day one We're still very much on the challenging mode.

所以我不一定認為短期內這會推動資金成本改善，因為我們可能會決定把所有這些收益再投資回客戶身上，特別是在像墨西哥這樣我們仍非常早期的國家，以及哥倫比亞、巴西的某些細分市場——我們希望——我們仍然非常像是在第一天。

We're not in a mode of optimizing for net income or increasing earnings. We're investing a lot in growth. We're investing a lot of in improving our products and our customer experience. And a lot of what we can do with this new model is being able to make a better decision as we trade off quality with cost, product quality.

我們不是在最佳化淨利或提高獲利的模式。我們在成長上投入很多。我們在改善產品與客戶體驗上也投入很多。而這個新模型能做的很多事情，是讓我們在品質與成本、產品品質之間取捨時，能做出更好的決策。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Mario Pierry from Bank of America?

接線員，請幫我們開放美國銀行（Bank of America）的 Mario Pierry 先生的線路，好嗎？

Sorry about that before. Congratulations on the quarter. It definitely was better than what we were expecting. But two questions here from my part.

剛才不好意思。恭喜這一季的表現。確實比我們預期的更好。不過我這邊有兩個問題。

So on the previous call, right, in the first-quarter results, you guys talked about net interest risk-adjusted margin going back to the levels of the second half of last year -- by the end of this year. So we're talking about 10.8% to 10.5%, and you jumped to 12.4%. So I'm trying to understand where is the surprise coming from from what you guys were expecting? Is it that your credit models are better, that you're able to grow faster than you expected? Or like because it is a big beat versus what you guys were expecting?

所以在上一通電話會議上，對吧，在第一季業績時，你們提到淨利息風險調整後利差會在今年年底回到去年下半年的水準。也就是說，我們談的是 10.8% 到 10.5%，但你們卻跳到 12.4%。所以我想了解，這個超出預期的驚喜是從哪裡來的，和你們原本的預期相比？是你們的信用模型更好、能夠比預期更快成長嗎？還是說，因為這相對於你們原本預期是一個很大的超預期？

And then my second question is a little bit more technical, and I appreciate you guys showing the slide on page 20 that shows the NPLs by income. But I was trying to reconcile that slide on page 20 of page 17. Because on page 17, you show that NPLs have some seasonality. And then when I look at this slide on Page 20, it doesn't appear like there's much seasonality on that data. In fact, right, if we look at your NPLs I think you showed July 25 to now, it has improved for every income segment that you showed.

然後我的第二個問題比較技術性一些，也很感謝你們在第 20 頁展示按收入劃分的不良貸款（NPL）投影片。但我試著把第 20 頁那張投影片和第 17 頁對照起來。因為在第 17 頁，你們顯示 NPL 有一些季節性。但當我看第 20 頁這張投影片時，看起來那份資料並沒有太多季節性。事實上，對吧，如果我們看你們的 NPL，我想你們展示了從 7 月 25 日到現在，你們所展示的每個收入區間都有改善。

But then when we look at the overall NPL, we actually deteriorated 40 basis points. So does it mean that the entire deterioration that we're seeing and all the seasonality that we're seeing is coming primarily from your unsecured personal loans? Because, again, credit cards are 65% of your loan book, and that is not showing any deterioration at all. Thank you.

但接著當我們看整體 NPL 時，實際上惡化了 40 個基點。所以這是否意味著，我們看到的全部惡化以及我們看到的所有季節性，主要都是來自你們的無擔保個人貸款？因為再說一次，信用卡占你們貸款組合的 65%，而那部分完全沒有顯示任何惡化。謝謝。

Yeah. Thank you so much for those questions. I'll start with the second one first. So on page 20, as you're looking at the credit performance that we have relative to other banks in Brazil, keep in mind that this is credit card only, of course, and the other graph is for the whole company, and it's smooth. So that's in the mice type at the bottom of the page here is that we're taking a rolling average, and that's why you're not seeing the seasonality that does actually exist in these numbers.

是的。非常感謝這些問題。我先從第二個問題開始。所以在第 20 頁，當你在看我們相對於巴西其他銀行的信用品質表現時，請記住這裡當然只涵蓋信用卡，而另一張圖是針對整個公司，因此看起來更平滑。所以在頁面底部的小字註記是，我們採用移動平均，因此你才不會看到其實確實存在於這些數字中的季節性。

Going back to your first question, though, around the overperformance of risk-adjusted NIM. If you recall, at the time of the Q1 earnings, Desenrola was not clearly laid out at that time. And so about a third of that benefit relative to what we were expecting is coming from Desenrola.

回到你的第一個問題，關於風險調整後淨利息收益率（NIM）的超預期表現。如果你還記得，在第一季財報發布時，Desenrola 當時還沒有被清楚地說明。因此，相較於我們原本的預期，約三分之一的利多來自 Desenrola。

But two-thirds are coming from two things. One is just really solid credit performance across the board and in some cases, better than expected. And the other is the increase in our balances that were earning yield in Q2 at the very beginning that was driven by the growth in Q1 continuing to ramp up. And so, that did slightly come in better than we expected, and we're happy to have it now.

但另外三分之二來自兩件事。第一是整體信用品質表現非常穩健，在某些情況下甚至優於預期。第二是我們在第二季一開始、能夠產生收益的餘額增加，這是由第一季的成長延續並持續加速所帶動。因此，這確實略優於我們的預期，我們也很高興現在有這樣的結果。

Okay. Rob, but just let me follow up then. Okay, I see the footnote here that says you smoothed out the trends. But the starting point is higher than the current point for your NPLs. And when I look at your overall NPL, it's higher. So again, is the deterioration primarily coming in the unsecured personal loans?

好的。Rob，但讓我追問一下。好的，我看到這裡的註腳寫你們把趨勢做了平滑處理。但你們 NPL 的起點高於目前的水準。而當我看你們的整體 NPL，它是更高的。所以再問一次，惡化主要是來自無擔保個人貸款嗎？

So it's -- I wouldn't quite characterize it as that as much as I would characterize it as a mix shift that we are seeing. And so, what you see on page 20 is essentially a disaggregated view of the portfolio by income bracket. And when you look at it that way, you do see this steady, if not decreasing performance, across all three segments in Brazil. But when you look at our overall portfolio, there are shifts in terms of where we are lending money, and it's primarily those shifts rather than deterioration within unsecured lending that's driving that increase over time. Does that make sense?

所以——我不會完全那樣描述；我會更傾向把它描述為我們看到的組合結構轉移（mix shift）。因此，你在第 20 頁看到的，本質上是按收入區間拆分後的投資組合視角。而用這種方式來看，你確實會看到巴西三個區間的表現穩定，甚至是下降。但當你看我們的整體投資組合時，會出現我們放款資金投向的結構性變化；推動這段時間上升的主要是這些結構轉移，而不是無擔保放款本身的惡化。這樣說有清楚嗎？

A little bit. But yeah, we can follow up later. That's fine.

有一點。不過好，我們之後可以再跟進。沒問題。

So think of -- yeah, it's more of a mix shift rather than a dynamic where it's all coming from one product segment. And we can talk about it later.

所以可以這樣想——對，是組合結構轉移比較多，而不是全部都來自某一個產品區隔的動態。我們之後可以再談。

Yeah. I think that the problem that I have is then it's not like seasonal, right? It's more like a change in mix, the volatility in NPL is more because of change in mix rather than seasonal.

是的。我覺得我困惑的是，那就不是季節性了，對吧？更像是組合的變化，NPL 的波動更多是因為組合變化，而不是季節性。

Well, the seasonal is still there. It's more this idea that if you look at slide 17 and you look at 90-plus over the past two years, the general trend is upwards, and that's being driven by the mix. That was my point.

嗯，季節性仍然存在。我的意思更是：如果你看第 17 頁，觀察過去兩年的 90 天以上逾期（90-plus），整體趨勢是向上的，而這是由組合所驅動的。這就是我的重點。

Operator, please, could you open the line for Mr. Craig Maurer from FT Partners?

接線員，麻煩請為 FT Partners 的 Craig Maurer 先生開線。

Question specifically for Rob. With your background and new moving into the US, you spent a lot of time today discussing your data advantages in terms of lending, credit is a superpower and so on and so forth. How do you think your models will hold up in the US considering the change in demographics? And how much legwork do you have to do to rebuild those models before you can have the same degree of confidence?

問題是專門問 Rob 的。以你的背景以及你最近轉到美國市場，你今天花了很多時間談你們在放款方面的數據優勢、信用是超能力等等。考量到人口結構的變化，你認為你們的模型在美國會有多穩健？在你能有同等程度的信心之前，你們需要做多少前期工作來重建這些模型？

It's a really good question, and I think it dovetails nicely with our commitment that we've made that we are not planning to spend more than 100 basis points in our efficiency ratio on the US entry. And the reason is it will take us some time to build up the same confidence in our credit risk models in the US as we have in Brazil and Mexico and Colombia where we've been operating for years.

這是一個非常好的問題，我認為也很契合我們所做的承諾：我們計畫在進入美國市場這件事上，不會讓效率比率額外增加超過 100 個基點。原因是，我們需要一些時間，才能在美國建立起與我們在巴西、墨西哥與哥倫比亞（我們已經營運多年）同等的信用風險模型信心。

The way to think about it is that the platform, the NuFormer platform for credit models and the credit risk expertise that we have in the company, will translate very, very quickly across the border. But the actual data richness and building the experience of foundational testing and having the models in place that are specifically tooled for the US market will take somewhere between 12 and 30 months, depending on the degree of maturation of those curves.

可以這樣理解：平台本身——用於信用模型的 NuFormer 平台，以及我們公司內的信用風險專業能力——會非常、非常快地跨境移植。但實際的數據豐富度、基礎測試經驗的累積，以及建立專為美國市場調校的模型，將需要大約 12 到 30 個月，取決於那些曲線成熟的程度。

So our priority at the beginning of our entry into the US market when that happens, will be to test, learn, build out our data set, and then be ready to expand once we have that same level of confidence there that we do in our core markets.

因此，當我們開始進入美國市場時（在那發生的時候），初期的優先事項會是測試、學習、擴充我們的數據集，然後在我們在那裡也具備與核心市場同等信心後，再準備擴張。

Okay. With that, we -- sorry, we've now surpassed 60 minutes of this session. So we are now concluding today's call. On behalf of Nu Holdings and our Investor Relations team, I want to thank you very much for your time and participation in our earnings call today.

好的。那麼——抱歉——我們現在已經超過本場會議 60 分鐘。因此我們將結束今天的電話會議。我謹代表 Nu Holdings 以及我們的投資人關係團隊，非常感謝各位今天撥冗參與我們的法說會。

Over the coming days, we will be following up with the questions received via our platform. And with those that attended, we were not able to ask -- to make questions tonight. So please do not hesitate to reach out to our team if you have any further questions. Thank you and have a good night.

在接下來幾天，我們會跟進透過我們平台收到的問題。也會與今晚出席但我們未能讓其提問的與會者聯繫——提出問題。因此如果你還有任何其他問題，請隨時與我們團隊聯絡。謝謝，祝各位晚安。

The Nu Holdings conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Nu Holdings 電話會議現在結束。感謝各位參加今天的簡報。您現在可以掛線。