諾基亞 (NOK) 2026 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nokia's third quarter 2026 results call. I'm David Mulholland, Head of Investor Relations. Today with me is Justin Hotard, our President and CEO, along with Marco Werin, our CFO. Before we get started, a quick disclaimer.

各位女士、先生，大家好。歡迎參加諾基亞 2026 年第三季業績電話會議。我是 David Mulholland，投資人關係主管。今天與我一同出席的有我們的總裁暨執行長 Justin Hotard，以及財務長 Marco Werin。在開始之前，先做一段簡短的免責聲明。

During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements regarding our future business and financial performance, and these statements are predictions that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may therefore differ materially from the results we currently expect. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors.

在本次電話會議中，我們將就未來業務與財務表現發表前瞻性陳述；這些陳述屬於預測，並涉及風險與不確定性。因此，實際結果可能與我們目前預期的結果存在重大差異。可能導致此類差異的因素，既可能來自外部，也可能來自內部營運因素。

We have identified such risks in the risk factor section of our annual report on Form [20-F], which is available on our Investor Relations website. Within today's presentation, references to growth rates will be on a constant currency basis and other financial items will be based on our comparable reporting.

我們已在年度報告 Form [20-F] 的風險因素章節中識別相關風險，該報告可於我們的投資人關係網站取得。在今天的簡報中，提及的成長率將以固定匯率基礎計算，其他財務項目將以我們的可比口徑呈現。

Please note that our Q3 report and a presentation that accompanies this call are published on our Investor Relations website. The report includes both reported and comparable financial results and reconciliation between the two.

請注意，我們的第三季報告以及配合本次電話會議的簡報已發布於投資人關係網站。該報告同時包含依報導口徑與可比口徑的財務結果，並提供兩者之間的調節。

In terms of the agenda for today, Justin will go through the strategic highlights and then Marco will go through our financial performance before we move to the Q&A. With that, let me hand over to Justin.

就今天的議程而言，Justin 將先說明策略重點，接著 Marco 將說明我們的財務表現，之後進入問答環節。那麼，接下來交給 Justin。

Thank you, David, and hello, everyone. Team Nokia continues to deliver on our commitments and execute on our strategy. Growth is accelerating in the areas where we have chosen to focus and invest. That growth is also beginning to translate into stronger operating leverage.

謝謝你，David，各位大家好。諾基亞團隊持續兌現承諾並落實我們的策略。在我們選擇聚焦並投資的領域，成長正在加速。這樣的成長也開始轉化為更強的營運槓桿。

In Q3, we grew net sales by 9% and expanded operating margin by 220 basis points to 11.7%. AI and cloud was again our largest growth engine with earlier design wins converting into revenue and IP networks and showing continued strength in optical networks.

在第三季，我們的淨銷售額成長 9%，營業利益率擴大 220 個基點至 11.7%。AI 與雲端再次成為我們最大的成長引擎，先前取得的設計導入（design wins）開始轉為營收；同時 IP 網路持續強勁，光網路亦展現延續性的強勢表現。

Mobile infrastructure grew in the quarter as our focus remains on profitability and improving return on invested capital. Technology Standards continues to execute its strategy and licensing. We are tracking to deliver above the midpoint of our full year outlook. Before Marco takes you through the financial performance in more detail, I will give you an update on the progress that we are making against our strategic priorities.

行動基礎建設在本季實現成長，我們仍聚焦於獲利能力並提升投入資本報酬率。技術標準事業群持續執行其策略與授權業務。我們正朝著全年展望區間中點以上的水準邁進。在 Marco 更詳細說明財務表現之前，我先向各位更新我們在策略優先事項上的進展。

In AI and Cloud, net sales grew 123% year-over-year and represented 12% of total group net sales in the quarter. Order intake was strong again, up 118% year-over-year to EUR1.5 billion. Demand from AI and cloud drove IP networks to grow 43% year-over-year as previously announced design wins began to convert into revenue. Optical networks grew 18% and still contributed the majority of our revenue in this customer segment.

在 AI 與雲端方面，淨銷售額年增 123%，本季占集團總淨銷售額的 12%。接單表現再次強勁，年增 118% 至 15 億歐元。AI 與雲端需求帶動 IP 網路年增 43%，如先前所公告，既有的設計導入開始轉為營收。光網路成長 18%，且仍貢獻該客戶族群中我們的大部分營收。

However, IP networks is now playing a more prominent role. In both businesses, we continue to see demand that exceeds supply. The market continues to develop with demand accelerating across all segments, including scale across front-end networking and data center interconnect.

不過，IP 網路現在正扮演更為關鍵的角色。在這兩項業務中，我們持續看到需求高於供給。市場持續發展，需求在所有區隔加速成長，包括前端網路擴容以及資料中心互連。

Further, we also see demand extending into our telco customer base. As they invest to support demand from AI and cloud customers. Optical networks and IP networks are now on track to grow somewhat above the 18% to 20% assumption we provided for the full year. For 2027, we now expect these businesses to grow between 25% and 30% on a combined basis, reflecting the strength of the underlying market and our position to capture that demand.

此外，我們也看到需求延伸至電信客戶基礎。他們正加大投資，以支援來自 AI 與雲端客戶的需求。光網路與 IP 網路目前有望在全年 18% 至 20% 的假設之上略為超出。展望 2027 年，我們現在預期這兩項業務合計成長 25% 至 30%，反映基礎市場的強勁動能，以及我們具備承接該需求的有利地位。

The build-out of AI infrastructure is driving demand across optical and IP networks. Demand for 800 gig coherent pluggables continues to accelerate with shipment volumes increasing more than two-fold sequentially. We're securing orders from both hyperscalers and major telcos.

AI 基礎設施的建置正在推動光網路與 IP 網路的需求。對 800G 相干可插拔模組的需求持續加速，出貨量較前一季增加逾兩倍。我們正同時從超大規模業者（hyperscalers）與主要電信業者取得訂單。

We now have design wins with 29 customers. We are also investing in our next-generation optical roadmap developed in close collaboration with our hyperscale customers. In Line Systems, an important growth area where we have historically had less share, we are making meaningful progress. During this quarter, we secured a significant win with a large hyperscaler.

我們目前已在 29 家客戶取得設計導入。我們也正投資於下一代光傳輸產品藍圖，並與超大規模客戶緊密合作共同開發。在線路系統（Line Systems）方面，這是我們過去市占相對較低但重要的成長領域，我們正取得實質進展。本季期間，我們與一家大型超大規模業者取得一項重要勝利。

Our multi-rail technology launched this past March delivers 25% higher density than competing solutions in the market and has secured three design wins with the first customer now receiving initial volumes. In IP networks, momentum remains strong.

我們於今年 3 月推出的多軌（multi-rail）技術，相較市場上競品方案可提供高出 25% 的密度，並已取得三項設計導入，其中第一位客戶現已開始接收初期出貨量。在 IP 網路方面，動能依然強勁。

We secured two additional hyperscaler design wins, including an important next-generation data center gateway win. We also secured significant telco wins across edge and core routing, IP aggregation and 5G backhaul in Japan, Europe and the United States.

我們新增取得兩項超大規模業者的設計導入，其中包括一項重要的下一代資料中心閘道器（gateway）勝利。我們也在日本、歐洲與美國，於邊緣與核心路由、IP 匯聚以及 5G 回傳等領域取得多項重要電信客戶訂單。

Customers are modernizing their networks to support growing AI traffic. With demand for intelligence becoming more distributed and localized, this creates more data centers in more locations, which requires more connectivity to deliver services with the latency, performance, security, and locality demanded by AI workloads.

客戶正在現代化其網路，以支援不斷成長的 AI 流量。隨著智慧化需求變得更分散且更在地化，這將在更多地點建立更多資料中心，並需要更多連結能力，以提供 AI 工作負載所要求的低延遲、效能、安全性與在地性服務。

That means more AI compute in more places requiring more optical and IP capacity to connect them. For inference and workloads. Security, trust, and sovereignty are foundational for operators. We are the market leader in telco edge routing, and we have a rich optical portfolio which uniquely positions us to deliver solutions to meet this market need.

這意味著在更多地點部署更多 AI 運算，並需要更多光傳輸與 IP 容量來加以連接。以支援推論與各類工作負載。安全、信任與主權是營運商的基礎要件。我們是電信邊緣路由的市場領導者，並擁有豐富的光傳輸產品組合，使我們具備獨特優勢，能提供解決方案以滿足此一市場需求。

An example of this is helping our customer Zayo, a major internet backbone provider in the US, to create an architecture and service blueprint for connecting distributed inference across data centers for multiple partners.

其中一個例子是，我們協助客戶 Zayo（美國主要網際網路骨幹供應商）建立架構與服務藍圖，用於在多個合作夥伴之間，跨資料中心連接分散式推論。

We're also seeing encouraging traction in out-of-band management, leveraging our passive optical technology from our fixed networks business. Out-of-band management provides data centers with an independent optical lifeline to critical IT infrastructure if the production network becomes unavailable.

我們也在帶外管理（out-of-band management）方面看到令人鼓舞的進展，運用我們固定網路業務中的被動光學技術。帶外管理可在生產網路不可用時，為資料中心的關鍵 IT 基礎設施提供一條獨立的光學生命線。

Compared with traditional Ethernet-based architectures, our solution can reduce energy consumption by 50%, reduce points of failure, and improve network resilience through separation from the production network.

相較於傳統以乙太網路為基礎的架構，我們的解決方案可將能耗降低 50%，減少故障點，並透過與生產網路分離來提升網路韌性。

We announced our first design win last quarter and are now actively engaged with additional customers. In addition, in our core fixed networks business, we are focused on growing our optical line terminal business through continued innovation and differentiation, while we bring greater discipline to our customer premises equipment business.

我們在上一季宣布了首個設計導入，目前也正積極與更多客戶洽談。此外，在我們核心的固定網路業務中，我們聚焦於透過持續創新與差異化來擴大光纖線路終端（OLT）業務，同時對用戶端設備（CPE）業務導入更高的紀律性。

In optical line terminals, we continue to lead the market with approximately 45% port share globally, excluding China. Last week, we announced an industry-first 16-port line card that supports 10 gig, 25 gig and 50 gig PON on every port. SoftBank completed Japan's first commercial implementation of this new solution, demonstrating that GPON, 10 gig XGS PON and 50 gig PON can coexist on the same fiber.

在光纖線路終端方面，我們持續領先市場；若排除中國，我們在全球的埠（port）市占約為 45%。上週，我們宣布業界首款 16 埠線卡，可在每個埠上支援 10G、25G 與 50G PON。SoftBank 完成日本首個此新解決方案的商用部署，證明 GPON、10G XGS-PON 與 50G PON 可在同一條光纖上共存。

It gives them the opportunity to invest in higher speed capacity as demand grows without requiring replacement of equipment. SoftBank is one of several customers in Japan moving from its. Legacy EPON base to this technology, creating a new serviceable market for our portfolio.

這讓他們能在需求成長時投資更高速的容量，而無需更換設備。SoftBank 是日本多家客戶之一，正從其既有的 EPON 基礎轉向此技術，為我們的產品組合創造新的可服務市場。

With AI RAN, we are transforming the radio network into a platform for physical AI. This is critical for emerging applications such as autonomous mobility, industrial automation, robotics and augmented reality.

透過 AI RAN，我們正將無線電網路轉型為實體 AI 的平台。這對於自動駕駛移動、工業自動化、機器人與擴增實境等新興應用至關重要。

The technology industry has a long history of moving workloads from proprietary silicon to general-purpose computing platforms. For example, over the past decade, we have seen this happen in data storage and in mobile core networks.

科技產業長期以來一直有將工作負載從專有矽晶轉移到通用運算平台的歷史。例如，在過去十年中，我們已看到這種轉變發生在資料儲存以及行動核心網路領域。

RAN is entering the same transition, driven by the unique requirements of serving intelligence. We are positioning Nokia to lead this shift in partnership with NVIDIA.

RAN 正在進入同樣的轉型期，其驅動力來自於提供智慧服務的獨特需求。我們正與 NVIDIA 合作，讓 Nokia 站上引領這一轉變的位置。

Nokia's AI-native anyRAN software running on NVIDIA's aerial RAN computer. Provides a software-defined foundation for integrating AI-powered radio functions that improve network capacity and performance. This means our customers can adopt new capabilities as their needs evolve, including a software upgrade path to 6G.

Nokia 的 AI 原生 anyRAN 軟體運行於 NVIDIA 的 aerial RAN 電腦上。提供以軟體定義為基礎的架構，用於整合由 AI 驅動的無線電功能，以提升網路容量與效能。這意味著我們的客戶可隨需求演進而採用新能力，包括透過軟體升級邁向 6G 的路徑。

This past weekend, T-Mobile completed their first live voice call over AI RAN in its production network. In addition, Alyssa yesterday announced that they have run voice, mobile data, and AI workloads simultaneously on the same AI RAN platform in their commercial network.

上週末，T-Mobile 在其商用生產網路中完成了首次透過 AI RAN 進行的即時語音通話。此外，Alyssa 昨天宣布，他們已在其商用網路中於同一個 AI RAN 平台上同時運行語音、行動數據與 AI 工作負載。

Together, these milestones show that AI RAN is nearing commercial deployment in live environments. We've already demonstrated spectral efficiency gains of more than 20%, increasing capacity and improving network economics against our roadmap of 100% improvement in spectral efficiency gains in 2028.

這些里程碑共同顯示，AI RAN 正接近在真實環境中的商用部署。我們已展示超過 20% 的頻譜效率提升，在我們以 2028 年達成 100% 頻譜效率提升為目標的路線圖下，進一步提高容量並改善網路經濟性。

Our general-purpose approach allows new applications and services to be built on the network. At our Radio World event in September, with our partners DeepSig, Zanar, and Cohere. We showcased real-time sensing of the physical world to enable precise network-based location capabilities using only existing wireless infrastructure.

我們的通用平台方法使新的應用與服務得以建立在網路之上。在 9 月的 Radio World 活動中，與合作夥伴 DeepSig、Zanar 與 Cohere 一起。我們展示了對物理世界的即時感測，僅使用既有無線基礎設施，即可實現精準的網路式定位能力。

This creates the potential for new telco services and a path to monetize AI. Accelerated computing moves radio networks beyond the architecture that the industry has deployed since 3G. Our customers are telling us we're on the right track and engagement is accelerating, with 19 customers from around the world now working with us.

這創造了新的電信服務潛力，以及 AI 變現的路徑。加速運算正使無線電網路超越產業自 3G 以來所部署的架構。我們的客戶告訴我們方向正確，且互動正在加速，目前已有來自全球的 19 家客戶與我們合作。

Alongside our progress in AI and Cloud and AI native networks, we're working more closely with customers to shape the next generation of network technology. That collaboration is translating into meaningful wins. Our partnership with Google in support of their EUR13 billion investment in Finland is a great example of this. It shows how our optical and IP networks will help to connect the next generation of AI infrastructure within and between data centers.

在 AI 與雲端以及 AI 原生網路方面取得進展的同時，我們也更緊密地與客戶合作，共同塑造下一代網路技術。這種合作正在轉化為具實質意義的勝利。我們與 Google 的合作、支持其在芬蘭 130 億歐元的投資，就是一個很好的例子。這顯示我們的光網路與 IP 網路將如何協助在資料中心內部及資料中心之間連接下一代 AI 基礎設施。

We are also making progress with our Nokia Defense Incubation Unit. Last month, we announced a strategic partnership with ISAI to build secure, sovereign, low-Earth orbit satellite communication systems for governments and defense clients.

我們在 Nokia Defense Incubation Unit 方面也取得進展。上個月，我們宣布與 ISAI 建立策略夥伴關係，為政府與國防客戶打造安全、主權化的低地球軌道衛星通訊系統。

Alongside these efforts, we continue to execute our focused capital initiatives, investing for growth. And simplifying our portfolio. In optical manufacturing, our new San Jose fab remains on track to start production before the end of the year.

在推進這些工作的同時，我們持續執行聚焦的資本計畫，為成長投資。並簡化我們的產品組合。在光學製造方面，我們位於聖荷西的新工廠仍按計畫在年底前開始投產。

We've completed 90% of the process development and the process recipes and expect 24/7 operations to begin by the end of this month. At the same time, we've completed the sale of our fixed wireless access business to Insego and signed an agreement to sell our enterprise campus edge business to Aurelius.

我們已完成 90% 的製程開發與製程配方，並預期在本月底前開始 24/7 運作。同時，我們已完成將固定無線接取（FWA）業務出售給 Insego，並簽署協議將企業園區邊緣（campus edge）業務出售給 Aurelius。

Finally, we remain focused on delivering sustainable returns. In Q3, operating margin expanded by 220 basis points and we are delivering on our cost savings commitments. We are accelerating restructuring in Europe and expect the integration work in China to be 90% complete by the end of the year. The Infinera integration is largely complete and we are on track to achieve the EUR200 million synergy target by the end of this year, one year ahead of schedule.

最後，我們仍專注於提供可持續的回報。在第三季，營業利益率擴大 220 個基點，我們也正在兌現成本節省承諾。我們正在加速歐洲的重組，並預期中國的整合作業在年底前完成 90%。Infinera 的整合已大致完成，我們有望在今年年底前達成 2 億歐元的協同效益目標，較原計畫提前一年。

These actions taken together provide a more durable operating cost base for the company. In closing, growth is accelerating, operating leverage is becoming more visible and our investments are strengthening Nokia's position in the technology transitions that are reshaping connectivity in the AI supercycle.

這些行動合併起來，為公司提供了更具韌性的營運成本基礎。總結而言，成長正在加速，營運槓桿效應愈發明顯，而我們的投資正在強化 Nokia 在 AI 超級循環中重塑連結性的技術轉型中的地位。

We remain focused on delivering our full-year commitments and building the foundation for sustained growth and long-term value creation for our customers and shareholders. With that, I'll turn it over to Marco to take you through the financial performance in more detail.

我們仍專注於達成全年承諾，並為持續成長以及為客戶與股東創造長期價值奠定基礎。接下來，我把時間交給 Marco，請他更詳細地帶大家了解財務表現。

Thank you, Justin, and hello from my side as well. We had a strong quarter three. Net sales grew by 9%, supported by both network infrastructure and mobile infrastructure. Gross profit was EUR2.3 billion and gross margin was largely stable at 44.6%. The improvement in mobile infrastructure gross margin was offset by product mix in network infrastructure and the costs associated with ramping new products.

謝謝你，Justin，我這邊也向各位問好。我們第三季表現強勁。淨銷售額成長 9%，網路基礎設施與行動基礎設施皆提供支撐。毛利為 23 億歐元，毛利率大致維持穩定在 44.6%。行動基礎設施毛利率的改善，被網路基礎設施的產品組合影響以及新產品爬坡相關成本所抵銷。

Operating profit was EUR605 million and operating margin increased 220 basis points to 11.7%. The improvement mainly reflected higher sales. And continued operating leverage across the group. Financial income and expenses benefited from a positive venture fund revaluations during the quarter. This supported both net profit and earnings per share.

營業利益為 6.05 億歐元，營業利益率提高 220 個基點至 11.7%。改善主要反映銷售增加。以及集團層面持續的營運槓桿效應。本季金融收益與費用受惠於創投基金的正向重估。這同時支撐了淨利與每股盈餘。

Free cash flow was negative EUR99 million. We ended quarter three with a net cash position of EUR2.6 billion. Maintaining both a strong balance sheet and financial flexibility. Looking now at network infrastructure, net sales grew 15% in the quarter, reflecting continued positive momentum across optical networks and IP networks.

自由現金流為負 9,900 萬歐元。第三季末我們的淨現金部位為 26 億歐元。同時維持強健的資產負債表與財務彈性。接著看網路基礎設施，本季淨銷售額成長 15%，反映光網路與 IP 網路持續的正向動能。

Optical networks grew 18%, and the growth was supported by continued demand from AI and cloud customers. But we also saw healthy demand from telco customers investing in transport infrastructure. IP networks grew 43% and the strong order momentum we saw in the second quarter is now translating into a significant acceleration in revenue growth.

光網路成長 18%，成長動能來自 AI 與雲端客戶的持續需求。同時，我們也看到電信客戶在傳輸基礎設施投資上的健康需求。IP 網路成長 43%，我們在第二季看到的強勁訂單動能，如今正轉化為營收成長的顯著加速。

Fixed networks declined 22%. Reflecting the portfolio actions we are taking to prioritize higher margin products. Sales of our optical line terminal products were stable with the underlying business remaining healthy.

固定網路下滑 22%。反映我們正在採取的產品組合調整行動，以優先聚焦於較高毛利產品。我們的光纖線路終端（OLT）產品銷售維持穩定，基本業務仍然健康。

Gross margin declined 150 basis points to 41.2% and this was mainly driven by product mix. And the ramp up of new products for AI and cloud customers in IP networks. We currently expect cross margin to improve in the fourth quarter.

毛利率下滑 150 個基點至 41.2%，主要由產品組合所驅動。以及在 IP 網路中為 AI 與雲端客戶導入新產品的爬坡成本。我們目前預期毛利率將在第四季改善。

Operating margin increased 230 basis points to 10%. The improvement was mainly driven by operating leverage as revenue increased. Turning now to mobile infrastructure. Where net sales grew 5% in the quarter and radio networks grew 10%, benefiting from some contract deliveries moving from the fourth quarter into the third quarter.

營業利益率提高 230 個基點至 10%。改善主要由營運槓桿效應帶動，因營收增加。接著看行動基礎設施。本季淨銷售額成長 5%，無線電網路成長 10%，受惠於部分合約交付從第四季提前至第三季。

Poor software declined 13% as we de-emphasize certain applications and we also saw some operators delay projects due to the supply chain constraints for server infrastructure. Technology standards grew 8%, supported by the signing of several licensing agreements and the recognition of some catch-up net sales during the quarter.

核心網路軟體下滑 13%，因我們降低對某些應用的投入；同時也看到部分營運商因伺服器基礎設施供應鏈限制而延後專案。技術標準業務成長 8%，受惠於簽署多項授權協議，以及本季認列部分追溯性的淨銷售額。

We have seen a strong performance in the business year-to-date in signing new deals. In quarter four, we expect slower deal activity. And therefore a lower revenue level than what we have seen in the last few quarters. MI gross margin was 47.5%, largely stable compared with the previous year.

我們看到本業務年度迄今在簽訂新合約方面表現強勁。在第四季，我們預期交易活動將放緩。因此，營收水準將低於過去幾季所見。MI 毛利率為 47.5%，與前一年相比大致持平。

The quarter benefited from acceleration of revenue from quarter four into quarter three in radio networks, operating efficiency and higher contribution from technology standards. Operating profit increased, reflecting higher gross profit and lower SG&A expenses.

本季受惠於無線電網路業務將部分營收自第四季提前至第三季認列、營運效率提升，以及技術標準貢獻提高。營業利益增加，反映毛利提升與銷售、一般及行政（SG&A）費用降低。

This was partially offset by other operating income, which had benefited from a positive hedging impact in the third quarter of 2025. Turning to sales by customer segment. AI Cloud was again the fastest growing segment, with the net sales increasing 123% year on year.

但部分被其他營業收入所抵銷；該項目在 2025 年第三季曾受惠於避險帶來的正面影響。接著看依客戶區隔的銷售表現。AI Cloud 再次成為成長最快的區隔，淨銷售額年增 123%。

Sales to telecom customers were stable, while mission critical enterprise grew 7% and technology licensee grew 8%. As you heard from Justin, we are confident in the growth potential for AI Cloud given our backlog and pipeline.

對電信客戶的銷售維持穩定，而關鍵任務企業（mission critical enterprise）成長 7%，技術授權客戶（technology licensee）成長 8%。如同你從 Justin 那裡聽到的，基於我們的在手訂單（backlog）與商機管線（pipeline），我們對 AI Cloud 的成長潛力充滿信心。

At the same time, our expectations for a stable telecom market remain largely unchanged with some pockets of growth in IP and optical driven by data center connectivity. Turning to restructuring and integration costs.

同時，我們對電信市場維持穩定的預期大致不變，但在由資料中心連接需求帶動的 IP 與光傳輸領域，仍有部分成長動能。接著談重組與整合成本。

As part of our strategy, we drive long-term operating leverage and to ensure we are investing our resources in the areas. That drive the greatest long-term growth opportunities for Nokia, we have further accelerated some of our restructuring actions.

作為我們策略的一部分，我們推動長期營運槓桿，並確保將資源投入於能為 Nokia 帶來最大長期成長機會的領域，因此我們進一步加速了部分重組行動。

We are focused on simplifying our processes, streamlining on our operations, and consolidating locations. We're also driving a faster integration of our China operations as trusting [Tachem]. We now expect restructuring charges of approximately EUR1.1 billion in 2026 and restructuring and associated cash outflows will now be between EUR800 million and EUR900 million.

我們聚焦於簡化流程、精實營運並整併據點。我們也在推動更快速地整合我們在中國的營運，作為 [Tachem] 的託管（trusting）。我們目前預期 2026 年重組費用約為 11 億歐元，而重組及相關現金流出將介於 8 億至 9 億歐元之間。

Turning now to cash flow, free cash flow was negative EUR99 million in third quarter. Cash generation was impacted by restructuring payments. A further buildup in working capital. This included higher receivables and inventory as growth accelerates. Given the strength of the demand opportunity and the growth we now expect in 2027, we plan to invest an additional EUR400 million in working capital compared to our expectations at the start of the year.

接著看現金流，第三季自由現金流為負 9,900 萬歐元。現金創造受到重組付款影響。以及營運資金進一步增加。其中包含在成長加速下，應收帳款與存貨增加。鑑於需求機會強勁，以及我們目前預期 2027 年的成長，我們計畫相較年初預期，額外增加 4 億歐元投入於營運資金。

As a result, we now expect free cash flow. Conversion for 2026 to be between 35% and 55%. While this outcome is partly due to acceleration in growth, we continue to focus strongly on cash flow and ensuring we can accelerate our cash conversion as some of the working capital pressures ease.

因此，我們目前預期自由現金流在 2026 年的轉換率將介於 35% 至 55%。雖然此結果部分源於成長加速，但我們仍將高度聚焦現金流，並確保在部分營運資金壓力緩解後，能加速提升現金轉換。

Finally, turning to our outlook. There is no change to our comparable operating profit guidance. We continue to track above the midpoint of our comparable operating profit guidance range. The strength of the performance we saw in quarter three reflected sample forward from quarter four as we work to improve linearity.

最後，談談我們的展望。我們的可比營業利益指引沒有變動。我們持續追蹤的表現高於可比營業利益指引區間的中點。我們在第三季看到的強勁表現，反映了在我們努力改善線性度（linearity）的過程中，部分自第四季提前（pull forward）。

Looking at the fourth quarter specifically. We currently assume a sequential increase in net sales of between 20% and 24%, although the pull forward will dampen the normal seasonality we would see in mobile infrastructure. Overall, quarter three was a solid quarter and we remain focused on both capturing growth and driving the operational rigor required to maximize the long-term value creation potential of the company. With that.

特別看第四季。我們目前假設淨銷售額將季增 20% 至 24%，不過提前拉貨將抑制我們在行動基礎設施（mobile infrastructure）通常會看到的季節性。整體而言，第三季表現穩健；我們仍專注於同時掌握成長並推動所需的營運紀律，以最大化公司長期價值創造的潛力。以上。

Let me hand back to David for Q&A.

我把時間交還給 David 進行問答。

Thank you, Justin and Marco. As usual for the Q&A session, as a courtesy to others in the queue, could you please limit yourself to one question and only a brief follow-up. Jenny, could you please give the instructions?

謝謝 Justin 和 Marco。如同往常的問答環節，為了禮讓隊列中的其他人，請將問題限制為一題，且僅做簡短追問。Jenny，請你說明操作指引。

Thank you (Operator Instructions)

謝謝（接線生操作說明）

We would like to give as many attendees the opportunity to ask a question. So please limit yourself to one question and re-raise your hand in Zoom to rejoin the queue if you wish to ask another. I'll now hand back to David Mulholland, Head of Investor Relations for the Q&A.

我們希望讓盡可能多的與會者有機會提問。因此請將自己限制為一個問題；若想再問其他問題，請在 Zoom 中重新舉手以重新加入隊列。我現在把時間交回投資人關係主管 David Mulholland 進行問答。

Thanks, Jenny. Rob Sanders, Deutsche Bank.

謝謝，Jenny。Deutsche Bank 的 Rob Sanders。

Yeah, hi. Maybe if you could just give an update around your six-inch ramp in indium phosphide. How are yields progressing? Are you confident of the ramp as you go into next year? And how many more milestones you need to cross before getting really high convention on that ramp?

是的，你好。也許你可以更新一下你們在磷化銦（indium phosphide）六吋產線爬坡（ramp）的進展。良率進展如何？對於進入明年的爬坡你有信心嗎？在你對這個爬坡真正有高度信心之前，還需要跨越多少個里程碑？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah, thanks, Rob. So I think I touched on this a little bit, [Fab 2 is our 6-inch Indian phosphide Fab 1 is 3-inch] wafers and in that regard, we're very pleased with the ramp, I touched on this in my comments, 90% of the process development is done moving into 24/7 operations. Obviously, the key milestone is seeing us enter production by year-end and then continuing to see production ramp through the year next year.

好的，謝謝你，Rob。我想我稍早有稍微提到，[Fab 2 是我們的 6 吋磷化銦晶圓廠，Fab 1 是 3 吋] 晶圓；在這方面，我們對爬坡進展非常滿意。我在評論中也提到，90% 的製程開發已完成，正邁向 24/7 的運作。顯然，關鍵里程碑是在年底前進入量產，然後在明年持續看到產量爬升。

So we've got a set of milestones that start to move into obviously the volume and yield and those are the things we'll be watching. But obviously, we'll probably give you another update in January, but we're quite pleased with the progress and obviously touched on it today.

因此我們有一系列里程碑，接下來會進入明顯的量產規模與良率提升，而這些就是我們會持續觀察的重點。不過我們可能會在一月再給你一次更新；我們對進展相當滿意，今天也已經提到。

Did you have a quick follow-up?

你有簡短追問嗎？

Maybe if you could just address the opportunity in satellite in North America, just given recent market developments. Thanks a lot.

也許你可以談談北美衛星（satellite）方面的機會，考量近期市場發展。非常感謝。

Yeah, two things on that one, Rob. I guess one is our focus in the partnership with iSci is going after sovereign communication networks and these are really networks particularly. Particularly what we see in Europe initially is networks that are being upgraded from legacy SATCOMs that's been deployed. And the way I think about those are 2G or 3G wireless communication SATCOM solutions that need to be upgraded, one, to get to modern technology to meet the demands today for SATCOM, but two, to also provide the capabilities for the future. And so that's a big focus for us on.

好的，Rob，這題我想講兩點。第一，我們與 iSci 的合作夥伴關係重點在於切入主權通訊網路（sovereign communication networks）；這些網路其實是特別是我們一開始在歐洲看到的那類網路，正在從已部署的傳統 SATCOM 升級。我對這些的理解是屬於 2G 或 3G 無線通訊的 SATCOM 解決方案，需要升級：第一，升級到現代技術以滿足當前 SATCOM 的需求；第二，也要提供面向未來的能力。因此這是我們的主要聚焦方向。

On this initial partnership with [iSci]. Beyond that, look, I think there's a lot of discussion in the US about Satcom. I think we've been really clear that with the amount of connectivity demand coming from physical AI, we think connectivity is going to grow, demand for connectivity is going to grow, demand for persistent connectivity is going to grow.

在這個與 [iSci] 的初始合作夥伴關係上。除此之外，你看，美國對 Satcom 有很多討論。我們一直很清楚：隨著實體 AI（physical AI）帶來大量連接需求，我們認為連接性將成長，對連接性的需求將成長，對持續性連接（persistent connectivity）的需求也將成長。

And we think satellite is going to be a part of the solution. So the work that we're doing is looking at how we enable that. And that's a key part of why we're also investing in AIRAN because AIRAN provides spectral efficiency that will also be necessary to support that increasing demand.

而我們認為衛星將會是解決方案的一部分。因此我們正在做的工作，是研究我們如何促成並支援這件事。這也是我們投資 AIRAN 的關鍵原因之一，因為 AIRAN 提供的頻譜效率（spectral efficiency）也將是支撐需求增加所必需的。

Simon Leopold, Raymond James

Simon Leopold，Raymond James

Yes, thank you very much. Appreciate it. I'll ask both upfront. The first one is you've talked about the order patterns of the IP and optical together. I appreciate it if maybe you could double click and drill down on the IP, the routing and switching in particular, and help us gain a better understanding of where you are in terms of expansion in verticals beyond the telcos.

是的，非常感謝。感激不盡。我會一開始就把兩個問題都問了。第一個是，您談到 IP 與光學合併來看的訂單模式。如果可以的話，想請您再更深入一點、聚焦在 IP，特別是路由與交換，幫助我們更好理解您在電信業者以外的垂直領域擴張方面，目前進展到什麼程度。

It sounded like that got better. I'd like to make sure I understand that. And just I'll give you the follow-up right now to hopefully help out. One of your competitors has offered a forecast for the optical business growing on the order of 30% in each of the next two years. Now, I appreciate Nokia's customer base is somewhat different, but how do you see this particular market shaping up over that kind of timeframe?

聽起來那邊有改善。我想確認我理解正確。另外我現在就先把追問也一併提出，希望能有幫助。你們的一位競爭對手對光學業務提出預測，認為未來兩年每年大約成長 30%。我理解 Nokia 的客戶基礎有些不同，但你們如何看待在這樣的時間範圍內，這個市場會如何發展？

Thank you.

謝謝。

So first of all, on the order patterns and sales funnel, I would say two things on this. One is what we're seeing, and I touched on this again a little bit on my comments, is that the demand is in three areas for optical and IP routing and switching. And it's really in these areas around.

首先，關於訂單模式與銷售漏斗，我想就這點說兩件事。第一，我們看到的情況——我在剛才的評論也稍微提到——是光學以及 IP 路由與交換的需求主要來自三個領域。而且主要集中在這些領域周邊。

Front-end networking, data center interconnect and then obviously scale across. Scale across for us today is much more of an optical play. The others are much more around, much more a balance of optical and IP. What we're seeing rapidly evolve and you don't really see it in the quarter because there's some other moving parts with what we're doing with deemphasizing nonprofitable parts of our O&T business.

前端網路、資料中心互連，然後當然還有 scale across（橫向擴展）。對我們而言，今天的 scale across 更偏向光學的應用。其他兩個領域則更偏向光學與 IP 的均衡配置。我們看到正在快速演變的情況——但你在單一季度未必看得出來——因為我們在 O&T 業務中，正在淡化一些不具獲利性的部分，還有其他變動因素。

A little bit of the discipline we're getting in the portfolio that Marco talked about in core. When you look underneath our numbers, what you do see is more investment by the telcos also in providing effectively connectivity for East-West traffic. And this is data center interconnect, long haul, et cetera. And that investment continues to come.

以及 Marco 在核心業務所談到的，我們在產品組合上更有紀律的一部分。當你深入看我們的數字時，確實會看到電信業者也在加大投資，實質上是在提供東西向流量的連接能力。這包括資料中心互連、長途傳輸等等。而這類投資仍在持續。

Obviously, we're watching the CapEx guides very closely as you guys are from our customers, but we're quite optimistic that that's going to be a place where they're going to deploy capital and see a very attractive return because despite a lot of the sentiment in the market, the demand for connectivity in AI and cloud is massive and it's insatiable.

當然，我們也像各位一樣，非常密切關注客戶給出的資本支出（CapEx）指引；但我們相當樂觀，認為這會是他們部署資本、並獲得非常具吸引力回報的領域。因為儘管市場上有不少情緒雜音，AI 與雲端對連接性的需求非常龐大，而且幾乎是無止境的。

And it's driven by the fact that if compute is constrained, connectivity becomes another way to maximize the access to the assets or the utilization of the compute assets. And so that's hopefully gives you a little bit more color, but we're seeing obviously we started from a lower base, we talked about this a little bit last quarter, lower base on IP and now we're seeing more of that come through in revenue.

其驅動因素在於：如果算力（compute）受限，連接性就成為另一種方式，用來最大化對資產的存取，或提升算力資產的利用率。所以希望這能讓你更有一些脈絡；但我們確實看到——我們上季也提過——IP 的基期較低，而現在我們看到更多開始反映在營收上。

We expect to continue to see order strength in IP networks as we go forward from AI and cloud customers. And then in optical, we're continuing to see that demand on both ends. And again, we're very supply constrained.

我們預期，隨著往前推進，來自 AI 與雲端客戶的 IP 網路訂單力道仍會持續。而在光學方面，我們也持續看到兩端的需求。同時，我們的供應仍然非常受限。

And then as you think about the growth, I mean, maybe just to go to that one for a minute, look, we're providing a view of IP and optical combined of 25% to 30%. I would just say that our view right now is that as we build momentum in our portfolio, when we build out our supply capacity, including the investments we talked about in Fab 2, we have some optimism that optical can be a bigger contributor to that growth.

至於成長方面，也許我先就這點談一下：我們對 IP 與光學合併的看法是成長 25% 到 30%。我想說的是，以目前的觀點，隨著我們在產品組合上建立動能、並擴充供應能力（包括我們提到在 Fab 2 的投資），我們對於光學能成為該成長中更大的貢獻者抱持一些樂觀。

And look, for me, I think the only other thing I'll say about '27 versus '27 and '28. I think this is the third time I've given you an update on our growth assumptions since November since the CMD last year. I want to give you a concrete view of '27.

另外，對我而言，關於 2027 年相對於 2027 與 2028 年，我唯一還想補充的是：自去年 CMD（資本市場日）以來、從 11 月開始，這已是我第三次向各位更新我們的成長假設。我想先給各位一個對 2027 年更具體的看法。

Rest assured, we see a very durable market here. We wouldn't be investing at the pace and the scale that we are or in the portfolio if we didn't, and that extends well beyond '27.

請放心，我們看到這是一個非常具持久性的市場。如果我們不這麼認為，就不會以目前這樣的速度與規模投資，也不會在產品組合上做這些投入；而且這樣的判斷遠不只延伸到 2027 年。

Artem Beletski, SEB.

Artem Beletski，SEB。

Yes, good afternoon and thank you for taking my question. I would like to ask about highlighted several design wins what you have received in the quarter, so related to multi-rail pluggables and also IP in particular. Is it fair to assume that momentum is strengthening what you see on that front and hence we should be assuming that these wheels should be converted into orders, let's say maybe even later on this year.

是的，午安，謝謝讓我提問。我想問一下你們在本季強調的幾個 design win（設計導入/設計中標），包括 multi-rail 可插拔模組，以及特別是 IP 方面。是否可以合理地假設，你們在這方面看到的動能正在增強，因此我們應該預期這些成果會轉化為訂單，例如甚至在今年稍晚？

And just in terms of multi-rail and 800 gig pluggables as we are still in early phase of this product ramp up, how do you see you have been managing compared to competition on that one?

另外，就 multi-rail 與 800G 可插拔模組而言，因為我們仍處於這個產品爬坡的早期階段，你們覺得在這方面相較競爭對手，你們的執行與表現如何？

Two things I would say, obviously, if you look at our assumption around growth this year that we've updated and then what we're saying about growth next year and then just the order of momentum we've had in the year, I think it's fair to say we're quite confident that things are moving forward, things are accelerating and we continue to build momentum.

我會說兩點。顯然，如果你看我們對今年成長的假設（我們已更新），以及我們對明年成長的說法，再加上今年以來我們的動能幅度，我認為可以說我們相當有信心：事情正在往前推進、正在加速，而且我們持續在累積動能。

Obviously, as I said in Q2, we had a huge intake in Q2 and we said at that point, we thought this would be a little bit lumpy. But when I look at it, I look at what we see in the pipeline and the funnel. What I continue to see is tremendous demand. And as I said just now with Simon's question, our focus is on investing to meet that demand.

當然，正如我在第二季所說，我們在第二季有非常大的訂單流入（intake），而當時我們也說過，這可能會有些波動。但當我看目前管線與漏斗中的情況，我持續看到非常強勁的需求。而且就像我剛才回答 Simon 的問題時說的，我們的重點是投資以滿足這些需求。

Then in terms of [pluggables] and multi-rail or just the broader line system market that we play in, this is a place where we were, I'd say very transparently, we were under penetrated, right, both as Nokia and Infinera, it's been something as we've come together, the team has done a great job of doubling down on in terms of getting the portfolio right and now building the capacity and it takes a little bit of time to show up, but I'm.

接著就 [pluggables]（可插拔模組）與 multi-rail，或更廣義我們所參與的線路系統（line system）市場而言，這是一個我們——我想很坦白地說——滲透率不足的領域，對吧？無論是 Nokia 或 Infinera 都是如此。隨著我們整合在一起，團隊在把產品組合做對這件事上加倍投入，現在也在擴充產能；這需要一些時間才會反映出來，但我……

Probably one of the least patient people for seeing that show up, but it does take a little bit of time to show up and I'm really pleased with the way this team has come together as one company, one team to build the portfolio and ramp production, but that doesn't mean that we don't have more to do. And as I said before, we're not demand constrained today. So if we could ship more, we would certainly do it.

我可能是最沒耐心、最想看到成果顯現的人之一，但確實需要一點時間才會顯現。我對這個團隊以「一家公司、一個團隊」的方式整合在一起、打造產品組合並提升產量的表現非常滿意，但這不代表我們沒有更多工作要做。而且如我先前所說，我們今天不是需求受限。所以如果我們能出貨更多，我們當然會這麼做。

Thanks, Artem. We'll take our next, go ahead, Artem.

謝謝，Artem。我們接著下一位——請說，Artem。

Just a quick follow-up. Related to IP networks and nice growth acceleration in the quarter to more than 40%, do you think that such growth space could be maintained short-term or are you already starting to be constrained on that front?

再快速追問一下。關於 IP 網路，本季成長加速、達到 40% 以上的亮眼表現，你認為短期內能維持這樣的成長速度嗎？還是你們在這方面已經開始受到供應/產能限制？

Yeah, I mean, I think we feel pretty good about the assumption we shared in the update and I'll kind of let you guys work through the math.

是的，我的意思是，我認為我們對於在更新中分享的假設感覺相當不錯，我就讓各位自己把數學算一算。

But again, on IP networks, we're starting from a pretty low base.

但再說一次，在 IP 網路方面，我們是從相當低的基礎起步。

And as I just touched on in Simon's question, as you think about '27, right now what we see is optical contributing a little bit more. But that's not to say there's not more potential out there for us in IP, it's just what we see today.

而且就像我剛才在回答 Simon 的問題時提到的，當你思考到 '27 時，就目前我們看到的是光傳輸的貢獻稍微多一些。但這並不是說我們在 IP 方面沒有更多潛力，只是就今天我們所看到的情況而言是如此。

Daniel Djurberg, Handelsbanken

Daniel Djurberg，Handelsbanken

Hi, I'm Justin, Marko and David. Thanks for the question. I just wanted to ask you a little bit. You mentioned that you saw some increased demand on investments from CSPs on AI traffic. And you also saw a strong mobile infrastructure and especially radio demand or revenue in the quarter with Japan, India and EMEA being strong partly perhaps pre-buying. But can you give us some more insight into this and if we should expect this strength to continue into '27 or if it is a trend with some investments on back of the AI demand?

嗨，我是 Justin、Marko 和 David。謝謝你的提問。我只是想再多問一點。你提到你看到 CSP 因 AI 流量而增加投資需求。而且本季你也看到行動基礎建設，特別是無線（radio）的需求或營收很強，日本、印度與 EMEA 表現強勁，部分可能是提前採購。但你能否提供更多洞見：我們是否應該預期這樣的強勢會延續到 '27，或這是一個由 AI 需求帶動、伴隨部分投資的趨勢？

Yeah, I mean, I would say I think I made some comments on the AI and cloud demand that's driving. I mean, obviously, a fair amount of that is in the US because it's tied to where the data center investment is and it's driving interconnect, but it's not just limited to that. We're seeing investment in subsea in AI and cloud that also means that players in subsea are more what you might consider more traditional service provider players in subsea are investing, obviously, that doesn't have the density that.

是的，我的意思是，我想我已經對推動中的 AI 與雲端需求做了一些評論。我的意思是，很明顯其中相當一部分在美國，因為它與資料中心投資所在地相關，並且在推動互連（interconnect），但不僅限於此。我們也看到在海纜（subsea）領域針對 AI 與雲端的投資，這也意味著海纜的參與者——你可能會認為是較傳統的服務供應商型海纜業者——也在投資，當然，那並沒有那種密度。

Things like scale across or even DCI have. But as we talked about too, I think this is going to be a place where we expect to see more investment. I touched on the work we're doing with Zayo, who's one of the operators in this space.

像是 scale across 甚至 DCI 所具備的那種密度。但如同我們也談到的，我認為這將會是一個我們預期會看到更多投資的領域。我也提到我們與 Zayo 的合作，他們是這個領域的營運商之一。

On the other side, on mobile, look, I would just say the following on mobile. I think we touched on this, Marco referenced in his comments. The trend right now, all of the things we're seeing in demand in AI and cloud is putting pressure on the supply chain. That supply chain that's driving impacts, as we've talked about previously, for mobile.

另一方面，在行動（mobile）方面，我想我只要說以下幾點。我想我們有提到這點，Marco 在他的評論中也有提及。目前的趨勢是，我們在 AI 與雲端需求上看到的所有事情都在對供應鏈造成壓力。而這條供應鏈所帶來的影響，如同我們先前談過的，也會影響到行動業務。

And it's not just pricing. Obviously, commercial terms and costs are increasing. We're addressing that through greater commercial discipline, as we talked about.

而且不只是價格。很明顯，商務條款與成本都在上升。我們正如同所談到的，透過更強的商務紀律來因應。

But it's also a concern around supply and visibility and so the conversation that I have with customers is around forward visibility, give us line of sight of your plans over the next 12 to 18 months, give us early visibility so that we can plan, some customers take that and say, if you've got availability, I'll take it and you saw a little bit of that acceleration.

但同時也有關於供應與可視性的疑慮，因此我與客戶的對話重點在於前瞻可視性：請讓我們能看得到你們未來 12 到 18 個月的計畫，請更早提供可視性，讓我們可以規劃；有些客戶會接受這點並說，如果你們有供貨能力，我就先拿，你也看到了一些加速。

Others are working with us to just give us better visibility. That is a shift from certainly where we were when I started in this role just 18 months ago where there was a bit more of a I would call it a bit more of a normalized hand-to-mouth ordering cycle with something like six-month lead time. So that dialogue we're having with our customers and obviously I think we've got some great partners and customers in telco and they're working with us around that and I think that's. That's what we're going to have to continue to do.

其他客戶則是與我們合作，只是為了提供更好的可視性。這與我 18 個月前剛開始擔任這個職務時的情況相比是一個轉變；當時我會稱之為較正常化、偏向手到口（hand-to-mouth）的下單週期，交期大約六個月。所以我們與客戶之間的這種對話，當然我認為我們在電信領域有一些很棒的夥伴與客戶，他們正與我們一起處理這件事，而我認為這就是。這就是我們必須持續做下去的事情。

It's a bit of a different a lot of people talk about the supply constraints in '21, but that was very narrow, very targeted in some ways to some specific nodes. This is much more broad-based, touches all the leading-edge nodes, touches memory. Also touches some of the source materials, PCBs, etc. And it's not just a shortage, it's also a structural cost increase that we're seeing in the supply chain.

這有點不同；很多人談到 '21 年的供應限制，但那在某種程度上非常狹窄、非常針對性，集中在一些特定節點。而這次是更廣泛的，涵蓋所有先進製程節點，也涵蓋記憶體。也涵蓋一些原材料、PCB 等。而且不只是短缺，我們也在供應鏈中看到結構性的成本上升。

May I just have a follow-up on that, and it would be on your Nordic tier.

我可以就此再追問一下嗎？會是關於你們的 Nordic tier。

Commented about you know gross margin headwinds in seven based on this constraints on then on the price increases that would be harder to work around is that your view as well with regards to radio again perhaps?

你提到基於這些限制，在七（應為 7）方面你們面臨毛利逆風，然後在價格上漲方面會更難以消化；這也是你對無線（radio）等方面的看法嗎？

Take that one yeah I can take hi Daniel yeah just like Justin alluded to as well that that there's a broad-based. Constraints when it comes to supply and price increases, we see that as well. And that's why we are working on different fields to try to mitigate those impacts for us as well and try to secure that we can deliver for those demands that our customers have.

我來回答這題，是的我可以。嗨 Daniel，是的，就像 Justin 也提到的，供應與價格上漲方面存在廣泛性的。限制，我們也看到了。因此我們正在不同領域努力，嘗試減輕這些影響，同時也確保我們能夠交付客戶的需求。

And just like Justin said Telco side is quite aware of this now and getting more and more aware that lead times are slipping when it comes to component supplies and prices are increasing.

而且就像 Justin 說的，電信端現在對此相當清楚，也越來越意識到元件供應的交期正在拉長、價格正在上升。

Thanks, Daniel. Okay, perfect. Thank you and good luck.

謝謝你，Daniel。好的，完美。謝謝，祝你順利。

Sami Sarkamies, Danske Bank

Sami Sarkamies，Danske Bank

Hi, can you still try to unpack the gross margin dynamics we're seeing at network infrastructure? You were at 43% level in the first half of the year, now at 41%, even though you probably benefited from lower O&T volumes. How material ahead are you seeing from new products and what you will be thinking about Q4 when you had 45% last year?

嗨，你們能否再試著拆解一下我們在網路基礎建設（network infrastructure）看到的毛利動態？你們上半年在 43% 水準，現在是 41%，即便你們可能受惠於較低的 O&T 量。你們預期新產品帶來的逆風有多大？以及在 Q4（去年你們有 45%）你們會怎麼看？

Yeah, thank you, Sami. Yeah, I would say that it's always when you have new products you're ramping up, it takes some time before you get the right cost base and profitability on those. And that's why we saw also in quarter three now, especially IP network side that we have this situation.

是的，謝謝你，Sami。是的，我會說，當你有新產品在爬坡時，通常需要一些時間才能達到合適的成本基礎與獲利能力。這也是為什麼我們在第三季看到，特別是在 IP 網路端，出現這樣的情況。

We believe that this delusion that we've seen is temporary. And also that in quarter four, we should. See improvement in the gross margin levels and in [NI] and AI in cloud bring very strong incremental gross profit and is a creative to operating margin as well.

我們相信我們看到的這種稀釋（delusion，應為 dilution）是暫時性的。而且在第四季，我們應該。會看到毛利水準的改善，而在 [NI] 以及 AI 與雲端方面會帶來非常強的增量毛利，並且也會對營業利益率有正向貢獻。

And we believe this is very good business for us going forward. And then your comment on ONT. We are working through throughout the whole year now to prune the portfolio and basically securing that our portfolio and offerings going forward are the best suitable for us and that's why we are taking down those low margin customer premises equipment offerings but because of some longer-term contracts so which are working throughout the year so it takes the.

我們相信這對我們未來而言是非常好的業務。然後你提到 ONT。我們今年一直在進行產品組合的修剪，基本上是要確保我們未來的產品組合與供應內容最適合我們；因此我們正在下調那些低毛利的客戶端設備（customer premises equipment）供應，但因為有一些較長期的合約。這些合約會在全年持續執行，所以需要。

This year to be able to do that. And then that's why it takes some time before you can see the impact as well.

需要今年才能做到。因此在你能看到影響之前也需要一些時間。

I would just maybe make two comments on this as well. I mean, one is if you look at the fixed networks business in Q3, effectively the decline was the reduction in [ONT] volume.

我可能也想就此再補充兩點。我的意思是，第一點是，如果你看第三季的固網（fixed networks）業務，實際上下降主要是因為 [ONT] 量的減少。

And then obviously, the growth was the growth came across optical and IP, but there's also a bit of a it's a bit of an addition, subtraction. It doesn't move the margins that much because we're not talking about business that was loss making, right? We're just talking about business that was dilutive to our profitability.

然後很明顯，成長是來自光傳輸與 IP，但同時也帶有一點加加減減的因素。它對毛利率的影響不大，因為我們談的並不是原本在虧損的業務，對吧？我們談的是對我們獲利能力具有稀釋效應的業務。

So I think it's a little bit of that probably in addition to what Marco highlighted that it doesn't move the needle as much as we would like, but I think over time as we scale what we're building and. IP networks and obviously continue to scale in optical and, as Marco said, play through the transformation that the team is driving in fixed networks, I think that's where you'll start to see the healthier margin profile.

所以我認為，除了 Marco 強調的部分之外，可能也有這一點因素；它對整體的拉動沒有我們希望的那麼大，但我認為隨著時間推進，當我們把正在打造的規模做大，並且在 IP 網路上擴張，當然也持續在光傳輸上擴張，而且如 Marco 所說，隨著團隊在固定網路推動的轉型逐步落地，我認為那時你就會開始看到更健康的利潤率輪廓。

And also remember that size-wise, fixed networks is much smaller than optical and IP and [ONT] business, then customer brand business is even smaller.

另外也請記得，就規模而言，固定網路比光傳輸與 IP 以及 [ONT] 業務小得多，而客戶品牌業務又更小。

Richard Kramer, Arete

Richard Kramer，Arete

Thanks very much, guys. Justin, you just mentioned visibility and you've given a roughly EUR5 billion AI and cloud order book in the last five quarters, but we don't know the timing.

非常感謝，各位。Justin，你剛才提到可見度，而且你提到過去五個季度 AI 與雲端的訂單簿大約是 50 億歐元，但我們不知道交付時點。

So could you maybe shed some light on roughly what portion of those orders are for 12-month delivery versus long-term deals? And when, given Marco's comments about near-term dilution, do you expect that AI and cloud of, which is now 12% of sales, translate into neutral or even accretive margins? Is that 2027 event or is that further down the road?

所以你能否說明一下，這些訂單中大約有多少比例是 12 個月內交付，多少是長期合約？另外，考量 Marco 對短期稀釋的評論，你預期 AI 與雲端（目前占銷售額 12%）何時能轉化為中性甚至增厚（accretive）的利潤率？這會是 2027 年發生的事，還是要更久之後？

Yeah. Hey, Richard. So why don't I take the first part, Mark? So in terms of the growth that we see in the order book and what we continue to see is the majority of orders are majority of orders we've seen are kind of in a 12 month time frame.

是的。嗨，Richard。那第一部分我先回答，Mark？就我們在訂單簿看到的成長而言，以及我們持續看到的情況是，大多數訂單——我們看到的大多數訂單——大致都在 12 個月的時間範圍內。

There's some portion that are moving outside of 12 months, but I would say it's still largely within '27. So the demand and again, the constraint here isn't demand, it's supply. So some of this is obviously, our customers would take more if we can deliver it faster.

有一部分會延伸到 12 個月以外，但我會說大多仍主要落在 2027 年之內。所以需求——而且再次強調，這裡的限制不是需求，而是供給。因此其中一部分很明顯是，如果我們能更快交付，我們的客戶會願意拿更多。

Obviously, it's implicit in my comment. But for now, the way I would think about it is we have a lot of backlog towards building towards '27.

這其實也隱含在我剛才的評論裡。但就目前而言，我會這樣看：我們有相當多的積壓訂單（backlog），是為了逐步交付到 2027 年。

And when it comes to probability, as I said, we definitely believe this is a credit for the company. And this is why we're investing in this as well and believe that this is valid creative for our shareholders also. It's always so that specifically if you look IP now that I mentioned specifically for quarter three, we are starting from quite low levels.

至於獲利能力，如我所說，我們確實相信這對公司是增厚的。這也是我們投資於此的原因，並且相信這對股東同樣能創造價值。另外，一直都是這樣：特別是如果你看我提到的 IP，尤其是第三季，我們是從相當低的基期開始。

So it takes some time before we get that volume up. And when we get the volumes up, then of course you get more operating leverage as well and better profitability.

所以需要一些時間才能把量拉上來。而當量上來之後，當然也會帶來更多營運槓桿，並提升獲利能力。

So that's why you saw quarter three little bit lower margins. But as I said, we expect quarter four to be better than quarter three.

所以這就是你看到第三季利潤率稍微偏低的原因。但如我所說，我們預期第四季會比第三季更好。

Thanks, Richard. We'll take our next question from Emil Immanen from DNB Carnegie. Emil, please go ahead.

謝謝你，Richard。我們下一題來自 DNB Carnegie 的 Emil Immanen。Emil，請發問。

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my questions.

嗨，各位。謝謝讓我提問。

A bit still on mobile infrastructure, where especially radio networks is seeing quite good sales. Just wondering if your customers are seeing cost inflation, are they then doing a lot of pre buying now? Or what's your view on that market going into well, Q4 and 2027?

我還想再問一下行動基礎設施，尤其是無線電網路（radio networks）目前銷售表現相當不錯。想請問你們的客戶是否看到成本通膨，因而現在大量提前採購？或者你們怎麼看這個市場，展望到第四季以及 2027 年？

Yeah, Neil, it's a good question. I don't I don't see people pre buying. And the reality is, you.

是的，Emil，這是個好問題。我不——我不認為大家在提前採購。而現實是，你——

Given the constraints, I don't think we could pre-supply. If there was a huge bubble, I think, one, I think we would all know about it because you'd see it in the numbers. Two, it's, given the supply constraints, it's not like we can just respond and support it.

在供應受限的情況下，我不認為我們能提前供貨。如果真的有很大的泡沫，我想第一，我們都會知道，因為你會在數字上看到。第二，在供應受限之下，也不是說我們就能立刻回應並支援那種需求。

But what we do anticipate is that we're going to see more stable forecasting. I think the other thing that I don't see is I don't see an imminent. Investment cycle. I think the market continues to be flat as we look ahead and we've been pretty vocal and transparent about this.

但我們預期的是，我們會看到更穩定的預測。另外一件我沒看到的事是——我沒看到一個迫在眉睫的投資週期。我認為往前看市場仍將持平，而我們對此也一直相當直言且透明。

And I think that's consistent with what others see. You may have a certain market that drives demand up or down. We've talked about certain markets that things slide and that will continue. But overall, we expect the market to be.

而且我認為這也與其他人看到的情況一致。你可能會有某些市場帶動需求上升或下降。我們也談過某些市場的需求在下滑，而且這種情況會持續。但整體而言，我們預期市場會是——

However, we expect, given the cost inflation, we expect pricing to go up.

不過，我們預期在成本通膨之下，價格會上升。

Yeah. And there are some pockets of opportunities, as I mentioned earlier, IP and optical side on telco side.

是的。而且如我先前提到，在電信商（telco）端的 IP 與光傳輸方面，確實有一些機會的口袋（pockets of opportunities）。

But the traditional telco, we expect to be quite flatish market.

但傳統電信商市場，我們預期會是相當平坦、接近平盤的市場。

And also back to your comment about pre-buying. The quarter three movements that we had from quarter four, specifically on the radio side, I would say that it's not pre-buying, it's just that sometimes projects are proceeding faster than expected and that's why we were able to deliver and conclude those deliveries already in quarter three instead of quarter four.

另外回到你關於提前採購的問題。我們第三季相對第四季的變動，特別是在無線電（radio）端，我會說那不是提前採購；只是有時候專案進度比預期更快，因此我們能在第三季就交付並完成那些交付，而不是等到第四季。

We'll take our next question from Felix Henriksen from Nordea. Felix, please go ahead.

我們下一題來自 Nordea 的 Felix Henriksen。Felix，請發問。

Hi, thanks for squeezing me in.

嗨，謝謝讓我插進來提問。

I appreciate the initial guide for optical and IP growth for 2027.

我很感謝你們對 2027 年光傳輸與 IP 成長的初步指引。

But how would you describe the expected operating leverage on that growth? I know we've discussed about gross margin already a little bit, but are there any larger incremental OpEx in this that needs to enable this growth going into next year?

但你們會如何描述這個成長所帶來的預期營運槓桿？我知道我們已經稍微討論過毛利率，但在這之中是否需要任何較大的增量營運費用（OpEx），以支撐明年起的成長？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah, thank you. I can take that one. And of course, the product mix has an impact on cross margin. But we, as I said earlier, we definitely see improvement in NI.

是的，謝謝。我可以回答這題。當然，產品組合會影響毛利率。但如我先前所說，我們確實看到 NI 有所改善。

And what comes to all the different mitigation actions we are doing and focusing in not only in NI, but the whole group, the security that we are getting to operating leverage.

而就我們正在採取並聚焦的各項緩解措施而言，不僅在 NI，而是在整個集團，我們確實正在取得營運槓桿，

And mitigating potential cost increases and component side.

並且在零組件端緩解潛在的成本上升。

We definitely believe that we have opportunities for all parties, parts of the company to improve the probability going forward.

我們確實相信，公司各個部門、各個部分都有機會在未來提升獲利能力。

Also, when it comes to the capacity investments, we invest in those areas where we believe that we can create shareholder value in a long-term. And if those opportunities occur, we will definitely take those opportunities and invest in those. And this is something that we do actually throughout the whole year on the capital allocation decisions. So it's not a once per year decision. This is actually ongoing running discussions that we have on a weekly basis basically that where should we allocate our resources and capital and we make those decisions on a running basis basically.

另外，就產能投資而言，我們會投資在那些我們相信能在長期創造股東價值的領域。如果出現這些機會，我們一定會把握並投入資源。而這其實是我們全年都在做的資本配置決策的一部分。所以這不是一年一次的決定。這其實是我們基本上每週都在持續進行的討論：資源與資本應該配置到哪裡，我們也會以滾動方式做出這些決策。

Can I add one comment to Felix's question? So a couple of things. One is we touched on the fact that we're starting to see operating leverage in Q3. And again, just to remind you, if you look at where we are, this operating leverage that we're starting to see is also hidden by the fact that we've got a bunch of these portfolio moves, the ones that we've talked about quite openly in portfolio businesses.

我可以對 Felix 的問題補充一點意見嗎？有幾點。第一，我們提到我們在第三季開始看到營運槓桿。再提醒一下，如果你看我們目前的狀況，我們開始看到的這個營運槓桿，也被一些投資組合調整動作所掩蓋——也就是我們在投資組合業務上已經相當公開談過的那些調整。

But also the and obviously the ONT one we were talking about earlier with Sammy, but also the continued cleanup of some of the areas where we're focusing on profitability than inside core networks and in radio networks. And so that hides this a little bit in the short-term as we make those decisions. But also if you look back where we're highlighting the operating leverage in the quarter and we're also saying we're now moving to. Above the midpoint of the range, which is a signal up from where we were last quarter because we see that we're starting to see that potential improved profitability and that's a sign from the set of actions we're taking both in cleaning up the portfolio as well as some of the more formal restructuring elements we've talked about.

另外，當然也包括我們先前和 Sammy 談到的 ONT 那一項，以及在核心網路與無線電網路內部、我們聚焦提升獲利能力的一些領域持續進行的整理與清理。因此在我們做出這些決策的短期內，會讓這個效果看起來被稍微遮蔽。但如果你回頭看我們在本季強調的營運槓桿，同時我們也表示我們現在正朝著——高於區間中點的水準前進，這相較於上季是一個上調訊號，因為我們看到獲利能力有潛在改善的跡象；這也反映了我們採取的一系列行動所帶來的效果，包括清理投資組合，以及我們談過的一些較正式的重組措施。

Thanks, Felix. Let's take our next question from Jacob Bluestone from BNP.

謝謝，Felix。我們下一題請 BNP 的 Jacob Bluestone 提問。

Thanks for taking my question. I have a question around expansion of your fab capacity. You obviously talked about the ramp in San Jose. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the ramp at Chandler.

謝謝讓我提問。我想問關於你們晶圓廠產能擴充的問題。你們顯然談到了聖荷西的產能爬坡，我想請你們也談談 Chandler 的爬坡情況。

I appreciate it hasn't closed yet, but if you could maybe share a little bit, what are your plans? What will it focus on? Is it just in phosphide? And I guess, I mean, given how much.

我理解交易尚未完成，但如果可以的話，能否分享一下你們的計畫？它會聚焦在哪些方向？是否只做磷化銦（indium phosphide）？另外，我的意思是，考量到你們增加的幅度這麼大……

You're adding, can you maybe comment on how closely are you working with your customers to support the decision to have so much manufacturing capacity sort of in the midterm?

你們能否評論一下：你們與客戶合作的緊密程度如何，以支撐在中期配置這麼多製造產能的決策？

Yeah, maybe I'll start on that side and then. And then work the other way. I would say we talked about this a little bit at ECOC or the team. The team talked about this a little bit at ECOC because I wasn't there. But one of the things that as we think about is we've got a set of building blocks and capabilities in optical that give us a lot of flexibility in terms of building solutions. And what's becoming more and more apparent is that optical demand, optical penetration and demand is going to continue to increase.

好，我先從那一部分開始，然後……再從另一個方向補充。我想我們在 ECOC 上有稍微談到這點，或是團隊在 ECOC 上談到了一些，因為我本人不在現場。（同上）但我們在思考的一件事是：我們在光學領域有一套建構模組與能力，讓我們在打造解決方案時具備很大的彈性。而越來越明顯的是，光學需求、光學滲透率與需求將會持續增加。

It's a factor of the tremendous increase in bandwidth demand that's going to touch every part of the network that we serve today.

這是因為頻寬需求大幅成長，而這將影響我們目前所服務網路的每一個部分。

And then, obviously, the power efficiency for solutions. And you look at things even like what we're doing in out of band management as an example of that.

此外，當然還有解決方案的功耗效率。你也可以看看我們在帶外管理（out-of-band management）上所做的事情，作為其中一個例子。

The reason I say that is that's enabling us to have earlier discussions around solutions and really co-innovate and co-develop these platforms. And if you go back to OFC, we announced products that we're going to release in '27.

我之所以這麼說，是因為這讓我們能更早就解決方案展開討論，並真正與客戶共同創新、共同開發這些平台。如果你回到 OFC，我們宣布了將在 2027 年推出的產品。

That's a sign of the left shift that's happening and the longer-term visibility that our customers have on the demand.

這顯示了「左移」（left shift）正在發生，也顯示客戶對需求的長期能見度正在提高。

The key thing there is building the Fab and Chandler, the investment acquisition we're making from NXP of that facility.

關鍵在於建置 Chandler 的晶圓廠，也就是我們從 NXP 收購該設施所做的投資與併購。

Right now, I'm not going to give you specific metrics. What I will tell you is we are positioning that to give us the flexibility to support the demand as it emerges, and we've talked about that being a. A 29 timeframe solution. But we think we've got lots of different avenues to monetize that facility through indium phosphide manufacturing.

目前我不會提供具體指標。但我可以告訴你的是：我們正在把它定位成能在需求逐步浮現時，提供我們支援需求的彈性；我們也談過那會是——大約 2029 年時程的解決方案。但我們認為，透過磷化銦製造，我們有很多不同途徑可以將該設施變現。

And obviously, as we get closer and we complete the transition and we work on it, we'll talk more about where we are and we'll give you similar milestones to what we're giving you on Fab 2. But in terms of near-term execution, the focus right now 100% is on. On making sure we get Fab 2 up and running and supporting the growth and, of course, hitting the yield and output targets that we expect.

當然，隨著我們更接近完成交接、並推進相關工作，我們會更進一步說明目前進度，並提供與我們對 Fab 2 所提供的類似里程碑。但就近期執行而言，目前 100% 的重點是——確保 Fab 2 順利啟動並投入運轉、支援成長，並且當然要達成我們預期的良率與產出目標。

We'll take our next question from Jinardin Menon from Jefferies. Jinardin, please go ahead.

我們下一題請 Jefferies 的 Jinardin Menon 提問。Jinardin，請說。

Hi, thanks for taking my question.

嗨，謝謝讓我提問。

Two questions. One is just to follow-up on those opportunities that you're seeing in the medium term on the optical side.

兩個問題。第一個是延續你們在光學方面所看到的中期機會。

You have come up with some products for optical solutions inside the data center outside of your core area of scale across DCI, et cetera. I'm talking about things like your LPO pluggable and your external laser, et cetera.

你們推出了一些用於資料中心內部的光學解決方案產品，這些產品超出你們在 DCI 等領域的核心規模化範疇。我指的是像你們的 LPO 可插拔模組（pluggable）以及外接雷射（external laser）等。

I know it's very early days, but can you give us any indication of how the response to those kind of products has been from. Potential customers? And do you see those kind of products as being a reasonable contributor to that medium-term outlook that you talked about?

我知道現在還很早期，但你們能否提供一些指標，說明這類產品來自——潛在客戶的反應如何？以及你們是否認為這類產品會對你們所談到的中期展望做出合理貢獻？

And then I'll just give my second question also right away. It's again on margins. But this time, just looking at the restructuring where you are accelerating it to [$1.1 billion], when should we expect to start seeing the results of this on your profitability?

我也立刻補上第二個問題。同樣是關於毛利率/利潤率。但這次是看你們把重組加速到 [1.1 billion 美元]，我們應該在什麼時候開始看到這對獲利能力的成效？

And does this restructuring start to taper off next year and then gradually we see the effect of that on profitability? And would that be coming more on the mobile infrastructure side where some of that is more focused or will we see some of that coming through on the NI side as well?

而這項重組是否會在明年開始趨緩，然後我們逐步看到它對獲利能力的影響？這些影響會更多出現在行動基礎設施端（mobile infrastructure），因為部分重點在那裡；還是我們也會看到部分效果反映在 NI 端？

I would just say on the optical side, I think I just answered the question. I mean, we're not right now. What I will tell you is that the assumption that we provided for '27 doesn't assume anything outside of the portfolio we have and the orders we have.

關於光學部分，我想我剛剛已經回答了。我的意思是，我們目前並沒有——我可以告訴你的是：我們對 2027 年所提供的假設，並未納入任何超出我們現有產品組合與既有訂單之外的內容。

But of course, as I touched on, we see broader opportunity and right now we just want to continue to work with those customers to design the right solutions that they need.

但當然，如我提到的，我們看到更廣泛的機會；而目前我們只是希望持續與這些客戶合作，設計出他們所需要的正確解決方案。

Yeah, and what goes to the restructuring if I started with. The China where we basically do the integration after we acquired the remaining part of the company. And we said originally that this will take up to three years, but now we're actually accelerating and we're able to do that in 12 to 24 months, the whole integration. And that's why we get more and faster.

是的，至於重組，如果我先從——中國那邊開始說：我們在收購公司剩餘股權之後，基本上在那裡進行整合。我們原先說這會需要長達三年，但現在我們其實正在加速，並且能在 12 到 24 個月內完成整個整合。因此我們能取得更多、也更快的成果。

The savings as well and synergies there. But this is, of course, aligned with restriction costs. As in China as a Western company, it's quite limited what you can capture as a market share there. And that's why we are adjusting basically the company to that reality that we see.

也就是節省與協同效益會更快實現。但這當然也會伴隨重組成本。在中國，作為一家西方公司，你能取得的市占率其實相當有限。因此我們正在依據我們所看到的現實，對公司進行相應調整。

Then the other parts that we are doing, of course we are finalizing the 23 to 26 program and here we have actually maximized what we set the range. We set [EUR800 billion to EUR1.2 billion] and now we are at the top of that range what we expect to get. And in addition that in quarter two, we announced. That we see further opportunities to streamline the company.

接著是我們正在推進的其他部分，當然我們正在敲定 23 到 26 計畫，而在這裡我們實際上已把我們設定的區間發揮到最大。我們設定了 [8,000 億歐元至 12 億歐元]，而目前我們已位於該區間的上緣，這也是我們預期能達成的水準。此外，在第二季，我們也宣布了。我們看到進一步精簡公司的機會。

Also what comes to securing that we consolidate locations in Europe and other parts of the world. And just to know securing that we continuously seek for more efficient way of doing business we are doing. And this will definitely help, I would say, the whole company, not only MI, but of course, in considering also what you have heard from other companies said that there's component strains and component price increases. This is one way to mitigate those also going forward.

另外，關於確保我們在歐洲及世界其他地區整併據點。也請了解，為了確保我們持續尋求更有效率的營運方式，我們正在這麼做。我會說，這肯定會幫助整個公司，不僅是 MI；當然，也要考量你們從其他公司聽到的，存在零組件供應緊張以及零組件價格上漲。這是未來持續緩解這些問題的一種方式。

And also in addition to what we already do when it comes to, of course, discussing with our customers. Redesigning our products and so on. So there's definitely benefits in different parts.

此外，除了我們在與客戶討論等方面已經在做的事情之外。例如重新設計我們的產品等等。所以在不同領域確實都有好處。

Sandeep Deshpande, JP Morgan

Sandeep Deshpande，摩根大通

Yeah, hi, thanks for letting me on. I have two questions, if I may. Firstly, regarding IP networks, you're talking about two hyperscaler design wins. You already have multiple hyperscaler design wins in the IP networks business. Are you expanding the number of customers that you have in IP networks and thus do you expect that through 27 and 28 IP networks will be a bigger percentage of your orders and sales in the AI and cloud segment?

是的，你好，謝謝讓我發言。如果可以的話，我有兩個問題。第一，關於 IP 網路，你們提到兩個超大規模雲端業者（hyperscaler）的設計案勝出。你們在 IP 網路業務中已經有多個 hyperscaler 的設計案勝出。你們是否正在擴大 IP 網路的客戶數量？因此你們是否預期在 27、28 年，IP 網路在 AI 與雲端部門的訂單與銷售中會占更大的比重？

And then secondly. When you look at the kind of typical Q4 revenue growth that you have, you're already seeing some operational leverage in the business in network infrastructure associated with the growth in optical and IP networks. How should we look at, I mean, your guidance for the year? I mean, can you go to the topic and can you reach the top end of that EBIT guidance that you've given the kind of now leverage you're seeing in this business?

第二。當你們看典型的第四季營收成長時，你們已經在網路基礎設施業務中看到一些營運槓桿，這與光網與 IP 網路的成長有關。我們應該如何看待，也就是說，你們對全年指引？我的意思是，能否談談這個主題：以你們現在在這項業務看到的槓桿，你們能否達到你們所給出的 EBIT 指引區間上緣？

I'm going to start, okay. I think you were trying to ask a 28 question and a profit warning question said, neither of which I'm going to give you. So, but look, I would say, I would just say in terms of the design wins, the way I think about it, I don't think about it at a customer by customer level. I think about it as a design win by design win level, because each one of these is almost the magnitude of the product. Each one of each design win in each customer is like its own product revenue stream and product life cycle. And so that's why you hear us talking about it that way and that's the focus.

我先開始，好嗎。我想你是在試圖問一個關於 28 年的問題，以及一個獲利預警的問題，而這兩個我都不會回答你。不過，我會說，就設計案勝出而言，我的思考方式不是以逐一客戶的層級來看。我會以「一個設計案勝出、再一個設計案勝出」的層級來看，因為每一個案子幾乎都相當於一個產品的量級。每個客戶的每個設計案勝出，都像是它自己的產品營收來源與產品生命週期。因此你們會聽到我們用這種方式來談，這也是我們的重點。

And obviously, given the information we gave you on '27 and the ongoing demand that we saw in the order book we saw in Q3 alone on the back of what we did in Q2, we feel very good about the long-term potential of this business.

而且很明顯，基於我們向你們提供的關於 27 年的資訊，以及我們在訂單簿中看到的持續需求——光是第三季我們看到的情況就建立在第二季所做的基礎上——我們對這項業務的長期潛力感到非常樂觀。

And the feedback we get from the customers that we're working with is that we're quite competitive in our design work. So obviously, that gives us optimism to continue to invest. And then in terms of operating leverage, look, my view and Marco can comment is this is something that, as you guys know, takes a few quarters to work out. It never comes right away.

而我們從正在合作的客戶那裡得到的回饋是，我們在設計工作方面相當具競爭力。所以很顯然，這讓我們更有信心持續投資。至於營運槓桿，我的看法——Marco 也可以補充——是這件事，如各位所知，需要幾個季度才能逐步顯現。它不會立刻出現。

There's a lot of work to get Nokia to the level of lean operating machine with the kind of different discipline portfolio. We're not there yet. I'm incredibly proud of what the team is doing because I think they've done a great job and they've moved faster than I thought in terms of portfolio clarity, but it doesn't mean that our work is done. And so. We're going to continue to push hard and stay focused on providing that ongoing operating leverage as we drive scale because that's going to be fundamental.

要讓 Nokia 達到精實營運機器的水準，並具備那種不同紀律的產品組合，還有很多工作要做。我們還沒到那一步。我對團隊正在做的事情感到非常自豪，因為我認為他們做得很棒，而且在產品組合清晰度方面推進得比我預期更快，但這不代表我們的工作已經完成。所以。我們會持續大力推進，並專注於在我們擴大規模的同時提供持續的營運槓桿，因為那將是根本性的。

Yeah, when it comes to the full year guidance, just like Justin said earlier that we changed a little bit the wording on the full year guidance, but the.

是的，談到全年指引，就像 Justin 先前說的，我們在全年指引的措辭上做了一點調整，但這個。

Range is what the range is that we have said as well. And just like consider also that linearity, especially in the MI side is a little bit different considering that we saw these some of the movements from quarter four to quarter three.

區間就是我們所說的那個區間。另外也請考量到線性度（linearity），特別是在 MI 這一端會有些不同，因為我們看到部分變動從第四季移到了第三季。

But I think that we have given as skewed, I would say.

但我認為我們已經給了你們一條偏斜的、我會說。

Path for you to see and calculate what you expect that we would land.

路徑，讓你們可以看到並計算你們預期我們最終會落在哪裡。

Thanks, Sandeep. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. I would like to remind you that during this call today, we have made a number of forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may therefore differ materially from the results currently expected. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the risk factor section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

謝謝你，Sandeep。各位女士、先生，今天的電話會議到此結束。我想提醒各位，我們在今天的電話會議中做出了一些涉及風險與不確定性的前瞻性陳述。因此，實際結果可能與目前預期的結果存在重大差異。可能造成此類差異的因素既可能是外部因素，也可能是內部營運因素。我們已在年度報告 Form 20-F 的風險因素章節中識別了這些風險，該報告可在我們的投資人關係網站上取得。

Thank you all for joining us.

感謝各位參與。

This concludes today's call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thank you everyone for joining. You may now disconnect.

謝謝大家參與。你們現在可以斷線。