NMI Holdings Inc (NMIH) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the NMI Holdings Inc., first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 NMI Holdings Inc. 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to John Swenson of management. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給管理階層的約翰‧斯文森 (John Swenson)。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon and welcome to the 2025 first quarter conference call for National MI. I'm John Swenson, Vice President of Investor Relations and Treasury.

謝謝您，接線生。下午好，歡迎參加 National MI 2025 年第一季電話會議。我是投資者關係和財務副總裁約翰·斯文森。

Joining us on the call today are Brad Shuster, Executive Chairman; Adam Pollitzer, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Aurora Swithenbank, our Chief Financial Officer.

今天參加電話會議的有執行主席 Brad Shuster；總裁兼執行長 Adam Pollitzer；以及我們的財務長 Aurora Swithenbank。

Financial results for the quarter were released after the close today. The press release may be accessed on NMI's website located at nationalmi.com under the Investors tab.

本季的財務業績於今天收盤後公佈。您可在 NMI 網站 nationalmi.com 的「投資者」標籤下查閱該新聞稿。

During the course of this call, we may make comments about our expectations for the future. Actual results could differ materially from those contained in these forward-looking statements. Additional information about the factors that could cause actual results or trends to differ materially from those discussed on the call can be found on our website or through our regulatory filings with the SEC.

在本次通話過程中，我們可能會對未來的預期發表評論。實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。有關可能導致實際結果或趨勢與電話會議中討論的結果或趨勢大不相同的因素的更多信息，可在我們的網站上或透過我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的監管文件找到。

If and to the extent the company makes forward-looking statements, we do not undertake any obligation to update those statements in the future in light of subsequent developments. Further, no one should rely on the fact that the guidance of such statements is current at any time other than the time of this call.

如果公司做出前瞻性陳述，我們不承擔根據後續發展更新這些陳述的任何義務。此外，任何人都不應依賴此類聲明的指導在本次電話會議召開之時以外的任何時間都是最新的。

Also note that on this call we may refer to certain non-GAAP measures. In today's press release and on our website, we provided a reconciliation of these measures to the most comparable measures under GAAP. Now I'll send the call over to Brad.

另請注意，在本次電話會議中我們可能會參考某些非 GAAP 指標。在今天的新聞稿和我們的網站上，我們提供了這些指標與 GAAP 下最具可比性的指標的對帳。現在我將把電話轉給布拉德。

Thank you, John, and good afternoon, everyone. I'm pleased to report that in the first quarter, National MI again delivered strong operating performance, continued growth in our insured portfolio, and record financial results.

謝謝你，約翰，大家下午好。我很高興地報告，在第一季度，National MI 再次取得了強勁的營運業績，保險組合繼續成長，並創下了創紀錄的財務業績。

Our lenders and their borrowers continued to turn to us for critical downpayment support, and in the first quarter, we generated 9.2 billion of NIW volume, ending the quarter with a record $201.3 billion of high quality, high performing primary insurance in force.

我們的貸款人及其借款人繼續向我們尋求關鍵的首付支持，在第一季度，我們產生了 92 億美元的 NIW 額度，在本季度結束時，有效高品質、高性能的主要保險金額達到了創紀錄的 2013 億美元。

In Washington, our conversations remain active and constructive. We'd like to congratulate Bill Pote on his confirmation as Director of the FHFA. Under Director Pote's leadership, the FHFA and GSEs have brought a renewed focus to the housing market and housing finance issues, with an overarching goal to help more Americans than ever before unlocked the dream of home ownership.

在華盛頓，我們的對話仍然活躍且富有建設性。我們祝賀比爾波特 (Bill Pote) 被任命為聯邦住房金融局局長。在波特主任的領導下，聯邦住房金融局和政府支持企業重新關注住房市場和住房融資問題，其總體目標是幫助比以往更多的美國人實現擁有住房的夢想。

We have long noted that there is broad recognition of the unique and valuable role that the private mortgage insurance industry plays, working to consistently expand access to home ownership and all the benefits it provides, while also placing private capital in front of the GSEs and taxpayers to ensure the safety and soundness of the conventional mortgage market.

我們早就注意到，人們廣泛認可私人抵押貸款保險行業所發揮的獨特而寶貴的作用，該行業致力於不斷擴大獲得住房所有權的機會及其提供的所有福利，同時將私人資本置於政府支持企業和納稅人之前，以確保傳統抵押貸款市場的安全和穩健。

National MI and the broader private mortgage insurance industry have never been stronger or better positioned to provide this critical support than we are today. And we're excited to work with Director Pote and other members of the administration to advance their important housing goals.

全國抵押貸款保險協會和更廣泛的私人抵押貸款保險行業從未像今天這樣強大或更好地提供這一關鍵支持。我們很高興能與波特主任和其他政府成員合作，推動他們重要的住房目標。

With that, let me turn it over to Adam.

說完這些，讓我把它交給亞當。

Thank you, Brad, and good afternoon, everyone.

謝謝你，布拉德，大家下午好。

National MI continued to outperform in the first quarter, delivering significant new business production, consistent growth in our insured portfolio, and record financial results. We generated 9.2 billion of NIW volume and ended the period with a record $211.3 billion of high quality, high performing primary insurance in force.

國家保險在第一季度繼續表現出色，實現了顯著的新業務產出、保險組合的持續增長以及創紀錄的財務業績。我們產生了 92 億美元的 NIW 額度，並在本季結束時創下了 2,113 億美元高品質、高績效有效主要保險的記錄。

Total revenue in the first quarter was a record $173.2 million and we delivered record GAAP net income of $102.6 million, or $1.28 per diluted share, and an 18.1% return on equity. Overall, we had a terrific quarter and stand today in a position of real strength.

第一季總收入達到創紀錄的 1.732 億美元，我們實現了創紀錄的 GAAP 淨收入 1.026 億美元，即每股 1.28 美元，股本回報率為 18.1%。總體而言，我們度過了一個非常棒的季度，並且目前處於真正的優勢地位。

We're in the market every day with a clear mandate and purpose, offering a low cost, high-value solution that makes homeownership more affordable and achievable for millions of deserving Americans in communities across the country, with coverage that serves to insulate the GSEs and taxpayers from risk and loss in a downturn.

我們每天都帶著明確的使命和目標進入市場，提供低成本、高價值的解決方案，使全國各地數百萬有資格的美國人能夠以更實惠的價格擁有住房，同時透過保障措施使政府支持企業和納稅人免受經濟低迷時期的風險和損失。

We have a strong customer franchise, a talented team driving us forward every day, an exceptionally high-quality book covered by a comprehensive set of risk transfer solutions, and a robust balance sheet supported by the significant earnings power of our platform.

我們擁有強大的客戶特許經營權、每天推動我們前進的才華橫溢的團隊、由全面的風險轉移解決方案所涵蓋的極高質量的賬簿，以及由我們平台的強大盈利能力所支持的穩健的資產負債表。

Stepping back, this is an interesting time, one where the strength of our current performance and near-term outlook stand in contrast to prevailing economic themes. And while we don't know how the macroenvironment will develop, we're confident that the disciplined approach we've taken to managing our business will carry our performance through all market cycles.

回顧一下，這是一個有趣的時期，我們目前的表現和近期前景與當前的經濟主題形成了鮮明對比。雖然我們不知道宏觀環境將如何發展，但我們相信，我們管理業務的嚴謹方法將使我們的業績在所有市場週期中保持良好。

From the start, we've focused on building National MI in a durable, risk-responsible manner. We've worked hard to establish a comprehensive credit risk management framework and have always maintained a proactive stance with respect to our pricing, risk selection, and reinsurance decisioning. It's an approach that has served us well and continues to be the prudent and appropriate course.

從一開始，我們就致力於以持久、負責風險的方式建立國家 MI。我們努力建立全面的信用風險管理框架，並在定價、風險選擇和再保險決策方面始終保持積極主動的立場。這種方法對我們很有幫助，而且仍然是審慎和適當的做法。

Overall, we had a terrific quarter, delivering strong operating performance, continued growth in our insured portfolio, and record financial results. More broadly, we remain encouraged by the continued discipline that we see across the private MI market.

總體而言，我們度過了一個非常棒的季度，實現了強勁的營運業績，保險組合持續成長，並創下了創紀錄的財務業績。更廣泛地說，我們仍然對私人 MI 市場持續的紀律感到鼓舞。

Looking ahead, we're well positioned to continue to serve our customers and their borrowers, invest in our employees and their success, drive growth in our high-quality insured portfolio, and deliver through the cycle growth, returns, and value for our shareholders.

展望未來，我們已做好準備，繼續為我們的客戶及其借款人提供服務，投資於我們的員工及其成功，推動我們高品質保險組合的成長，並透過週期增長、回報和為我們的股東創造價值。

Before turning it over to Aurora, I'm pleased to also share that we've extended our long-term IT engagement with Tata Consultancy Services on favorable terms into 2032. TCS has been a valued partner of ours since 2020 and has been a key resource as we continue to drive innovation and efficiency across our platform. And we're excited to have successfully extended our partnership.

在將其移交給 Aurora 之前，我很高興地告訴大家，我們已將與塔塔諮詢服務公司的長期 IT 合作以優惠條件延長至 2032 年。自 2020 年以來，TCS 一直是我們的重要合作夥伴，也是我們持續推動整個平台創新和效率的關鍵資源。我們很高興能夠成功延長我們的合作關係。

With that, I'll turn it over to Aurora.

說完這些，我就把它交給 Aurora。

Thank you, Adam. We again delivered record financial results in the first quarter. Total revenue was a record $173.2 million. Net income was a record $102.6 million, or $1.28 per diluted share; and return on equity was 18.1%.

謝謝你，亞當。我們在第一季再次取得了創紀錄的財務表現。總收入達到創紀錄的 1.732 億美元。淨收入達到創紀錄的 1.026 億美元，即每股 1.28 美元；股本回報率為18.1%。

We generated 9.2 billion of NIW, and our primary insurance in force grew to $211.3 billion, up 1% from the end of the fourth quarter and 6% compared to the first quarter of 2024.

我們產生了 92 億美元的 NIW，我們的主要有效保險成長至 2,113 億美元，比第四季末成長 1%，與 2024 年第一季相比成長 6%。

12-month persistency was 84.3% in the first quarter compared to 84.6% in the fourth quarter. Net premiums earned in the first quarter were a record $149.4 million compared to $143.5 million in the fourth quarter and $136.7 million in the first quarter of 2024.

第一季 12 個月的持續率為 84.3%，而第四季為 84.6%。第一季淨保費收入達到創紀錄的 1.494 億美元，而第四季為 1.435 億美元，2024 年第一季為 1.367 億美元。

Net yield for the quarter was 28.4 basis points, up from 27.5 basis points in the fourth quarter. Core yield, which excludes the cost of our reinsurance coverage and the contribution from cancellation earnings, was unchanged at 34.1 basis points.

本季淨收益率為 28.4 個基點，高於第四季的 27.5 個基點。核心收益率（不包括再保險成本和取消收益的貢獻）保持不變，為 34.1 個基點。

Investment income was $23.7 million in the first quarter compared to $22.7 million in the fourth quarter and $19.4 million in the first quarter of 2024. Total revenue was a record $173.2 million in the first quarter, up 4% compared to the fourth quarter and 10.9% compared to the first quarter of 2024.

第一季投資收入為 2,370 萬美元，而第四季為 2,270 萬美元，2024 年第一季為 1,940 萬美元。第一季總營收創下 1.732 億美元的紀錄，較第四季成長 4%，較 2024 年第一季成長 10.9%。

Underwriting and operating expenses were $30.2 million in the first quarter compared to $31.1 million in the fourth quarter. Our expense ratio was 20.2% in the quarter compared to 21.7% in the fourth quarter.

第一季承保和營運費用為 3,020 萬美元，而第四季為 3,110 萬美元。本季我們的費用率為 20.2%，而第四季為 21.7%。

We had 6,859 defaults at March 31, including 625 notices of loans in FEMA-declared disaster areas. And our default rate at quarter end was unchanged at 1%.

截至 3 月 31 日，我們有 6,859 筆貸款違約，其中包括 625 筆來自聯邦緊急事務管理署 (FEMA) 宣布的災區的貸款通知。本季末我們的違約率保持不變，為 1%。

Claims expense in the first quarter was $4.5 million compared to $17.3 million in the fourth quarter. Credit performance in the first quarter benefited from normal seasonal cure activity to start the year, balanced partially by the natural growth and seasoning of our portfolio.

第一季的索賠費用為 450 萬美元，而第四季的索賠費用為 1,730 萬美元。第一季的信貸表現受惠於年初正常的季節性修復活動，部分抵銷了我們投資組合的自然成長和成熟。

GAAP net income was a record $102.6 million, up 19% compared to $86.2 million in the fourth quarter and 15% compared to $89 million in the first quarter of 2024. Diluted EPS was $1.28, up 20% compared to $1.07 in the fourth quarter and 18% compared to $1.08 in the first quarter of 2024.

以美國通用會計準則計算，淨收入達到創紀錄的 1.026 億美元，較第四季的 8,620 萬美元成長 19%，較 2024 年第一季的 8,900 萬美元成長 15%。稀釋每股收益為 1.28 美元，較第四季的 1.07 美元成長 20%，較 2024 年第一季的 1.08 美元成長 18%。

Total cash and investments were $2.9 billion at quarter end, including $76 million of cash and investments at the holding company. Shareholders equity as of March 31 was $2.3 billion and book value per share was $29.65. Book value per share, excluding the impact of debt unrealized gains and losses in the investment portfolio, was $30.85, up 4% compared to the fourth quarter and 17% compared to the first quarter of last year.

季度末總現金和投資為 29 億美元，其中包括控股公司的 7,600 萬美元現金和投資。截至 3 月 31 日的股東權益為 23 億美元，每股帳面價值為 29.65 美元。扣除投資組合中債務未實現損益的影響，每股帳面價值為 30.85 美元，較第四季成長 4%，較去年第一季成長 17%。

In the first quarter, we repurchased $25.9 million of common stock, retiring 718,000 shares at an average price of $36.12. Through quarter end, we repurchased a total of $271 million of common stock, retiring 10 million shares at an average price of $27.03. We have 304 million of repurchase capacity remaining under our existing program.

第一季度，我們回購了價值 2,590 萬美元的普通股，以平均 36.12 美元的價格回購了 718,000 股。截至季末，我們共回購了價值 2.71 億美元的普通股，以平均 27.03 美元的價格回購了 1,000 萬股。我們現有計劃下仍有 3.04 億的回購能力。

At quarter end, we reported $3.2 billion of total available assets under PMIERs and $1.9 billion of risk-based of available -- of risk-based required assets. Excess available assets were $1.4 billion.

截至本季末，我們報告 PMIER 下的可用資產總額為 32 億美元，基於風險的可用資產（基於風險的必需資產）為 19 億美元。剩餘可用資產為14億美元。

Overall, we achieved standout financial results during the quarter with consistent growth in our high-quality insured portfolio and record top-line performance, favorable credit experience, and continued expense efficiency driving record bottom-line profitability and strong returns.

總體而言，本季度我們取得了出色的財務業績，優質保險組合持續增長，營業額創歷史新高，信貸體驗良好，費用效率持續提高，從而帶來了創紀錄的底線盈利能力和強勁回報。

And with that, let me turn it back to Adam.

現在，讓我把話題轉回亞當身上。

Thank you, Aurora. We had a terrific quarter, once again delivering significant new business production, consistent growth in our high-quality insured portfolio, and record financial results. We have a strong customer franchise, a talented team driving us forward every day, an exceptionally high-quality book covered by a comprehensive set of risk transfer solutions, and a robust balance sheet supported by the significant earnings power of our platform.

謝謝你，奧羅拉。我們度過了一個出色的季度，再次實現了顯著的新業務產出、高品質保險組合的持續成長以及創紀錄的財務業績。我們擁有強大的客戶特許經營權、每天推動我們前進的才華橫溢的團隊、由全面的風險轉移解決方案所涵蓋的極高質量的賬簿，以及由我們平台的強大盈利能力所支持的穩健的資產負債表。

Taken together, we are well positioned to continue to serve our customers and their borrowers, invest in our employees and their success, drive growth in our high-quality insured portfolio, and deliver through the cycle growth, returns, and value for our shareholders.

總而言之，我們已做好準備，繼續為我們的客戶及其借款人提供服務，投資於我們的員工及其成功，推動我們高品質保險組合的成長，並透過週期增長、回報和為我們的股東創造價值。

Thank you for joining us today. I'll now ask the operator to come back on so we can take your questions.

感謝您今天加入我們。我現在請接線員回來，以便我們回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Mihir Bhatia, Bank of America.

（操作員指示）美國銀行 Mihir Bhatia。

Hi, thank you for taking my questions and good afternoon. I wanted to start with just on the credit side. Maybe just talk a little bit about vintage performance. Are you seeing pretty stable performance from like the newer vintages? Or are you seeing a little bit more normalization, if you will, after some exceptionally strong performance here?

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題，下午好。我想先從信用方面開始。也許只是談論一下復古表演。您是否看到新款葡萄酒具有相當穩定的表現？或者，如果您願意的話，在經歷了一些異常強勁的表現之後，您是否看到了更多的正常化？

Yeah, Mihir. It's a good question. I'd say, broadly speaking, the starting point is we apply the same rigor around underwriting, risk selection, managing our mix, pricing with discipline, pricing with a focus on through the cycle performance for our more recent vintages as we have done at all points in the past.

是的，米希爾。這是個好問題。我想說，廣義上講，起點是我們在承保、風險選擇、管理我們的組合、有紀律的定價、關注近期週期表現的定價方面採用同樣嚴格的標準，就像我們在過去的所有階段所做的那樣。

You could see it, and we've talked about it in the past -- in the earnings release there's a table that breaks out performance by vintage. And you can see that the incurred loss ratios for some of our more recent vintages, really the post-pandemic vintages are higher than the pandemic and pre-pandemic vintages.

您可以看到它，我們過去也討論過它——在收益報告中有一個按年份列出業績的表格。您可以看到，我們最近一些年份的葡萄酒的損失率，實際上大流行後的年份的損失率高於大流行期間和大流行前的年份。

And the underlying profile of the borrowers, the mix for all of those is nearly identical. The difference, though, that's coming through is simply the level of equitization that supports the borrowers in our 2021 book and earlier versus our 2022 book and more recent. And so we do one of the items that Aurora talked about in her prepared remarks is the growth and seasoning of our portfolio, this idea of normalization as the underlying experience of the borrowers normalizes, we do expect that that trend will continue as we go forward. But we're pleased with the performance that we've seen on those more recent vintages.

借款人的基本情況、組合幾乎相同。然而，差異僅在於我們 2021 年及之前的帳簿與 2022 年及最近的帳簿中支持借款人的股權化程度。因此，我們確實做到了奧羅拉在準備好的發言中談到的其中一件事，那就是我們的投資組合的增長和完善，這種正常化的想法隨著借款人的基本經驗的正常化而不斷延續，我們確實預計這種趨勢將會持續下去。但我們對最近幾年的葡萄酒的表現感到滿意。

Nothing stands out as a concern. The only notable difference is just the level of equity because of the differences in house price appreciation, if you look from a starting point 2022 and forward versus, say, a starting point 2020 and forward.

沒有什麼好擔心的。如果從 2022 年及以後的起點來看，與從 2020 年及以後的起點來看，唯一顯著的差異僅僅是由於房價升值的差異而導致的股權水平。

Right, I'm sorry if I missed this in the prepared, but how much equity is there in your default? Like I think you all sometimes give us that.

好的，如果我在準備中錯過了這一點，我很抱歉，但是您的預設值中有多少權益？就像我認為你們有時都會給我們那樣。

Yeah, the average mark to market equity on our defaulted population or the average LTV is 73.2%.

是的，我們違約族群的平均市值權益或平均 LTV 為 73.2%。

Got it. Thank you. And then just switching just very quickly on the TCS renewal. Any impact to your OpEx outlook for this year or any additional comments on that renewal?

知道了。謝謝。然後就可以非常快速地切換 TCS 更新。這對今年的營運支出前景有何影響？或者對該續約還有其他評論嗎？

Yeah, I'd say, look, broadly speaking, as an operating matter -- as a business matter, we're really delighted to have extended the partnership. We've now worked with TCS for over five years. They've got deep expertise across the mortgage finance value chain.

是的，我想說，從廣義上講，作為一項營運事務——作為一項業務事務，我們非常高興能夠延長合作夥伴關係。我們與 TCS 的合作已經超過五年了。他們在整個抵押貸款融資價值鏈中擁有深厚的專業知識。

They know us. They know our systems. And really we've been able to lean on them to drive continued innovation and efficiency. So as a business matter, it's a huge positive.

他們認識我們。他們了解我們的系統。我們確實能夠依靠他們來推動持續的創新和效率。因此，從商業角度而言，這是一個巨大的利好。

I mentioned favorable terms in my prepared remarks. And so, going forward, our costs won't really change from where they are today. We expect that our expenses under the extended agreement will be roughly the same going forward as they have been on, I'll call it a run rate basis for the expense flow that we carried in Q1. Maybe a little bit of movement here or there, but by and large, nothing of note.

我在準備好的發言中提到了有利條件。因此，展望未來，我們的成本與現在相比不會有太大變化。我們預計，根據延長的協議，我們的支出將與過去大致相同，我將其稱為我們在第一季支出流的運行率基礎。也許這裡或那裡有一點點動靜，但總的來說，沒有什麼值得注意的。

Right. Thank you. I'll get back in queue.

正確的。謝謝。我會回到隊列中。

Bose George, KBW.

博斯喬治，KBW。

Hey, everyone, good afternoon. Just first, given the uncertainty around tariffs, et cetera, have you guys changed anything in terms of pricing or credit loss expectations or just how are you sort of incorporating that into your credit process?

大家好，下午好。首先，考慮到關稅等方面的不確定性，你們在定價或信用損失預期方面是否做出過任何改變，或者你們是如何將其納入信貸流程中的？

Yeah. So Bose, I'll give you a perspective. One, as I said, it's an interesting time where there's nothing today in either our internal spot data or the, I'd say the hard data around us that points to a challenge. But obviously the headlines, the emerging market volatility, broader concerns around what tariffs and other policies might mean. From an economic standpoint, they certainly factor into our thinking.

是的。那麼 Bose，我會給你一個觀點。首先，正如我所說，這是一個有趣的時期，今天無論是我們的內部現貨數據還是我們周圍的硬數據都沒有任何跡象表明存在挑戰。但顯然，頭條新聞、新興市場的波動以及人們對關稅和其他政策可能意味著什麼的更廣泛擔憂。從經濟角度來看，它們當然是我們思考的因素。

I think the big item to note though -- and so we'll always make changes, right? We will make changes in our pricing engine with frequency for a variety of reasons to shape our portfolio, to give consideration to emerging macro risks. But we're doing that from a point of where we're already embedding conservatism because we have to, right?

我認為需要注意的一件大事是──所以我們總是會做出改變，對嗎？我們將根據各種原因頻繁地調整我們的定價引擎，以塑造我們的投資組合，並考慮新出現的宏觀風險。但我們這樣做是因為我們已經根深蒂固的保守主義，因為我們必須這樣做，對嗎？

We're pricing our policies today with an expectation or at all times with an expectation that they'll stay on our books for several years. And during that several-year timeframe, we have to contemplate that there's the potential and ascribe a probability to a downturn, other than what we might just be seeing in the current here and now in a blue sky environment, let's say.

當我們今天為我們的保單定價時，始終期望這些保單能夠保留在我們的帳簿上好幾年。在這幾年的時間裡，我們必須考慮到經濟衰退的可能性，並將其歸因於經濟衰退的可能性，而不是我們現在在藍天環境中所看到的情況。

So already our pricing, the management of our mix, the decisions we make around our balance sheet, our reinsurance purchasing, all of those items already contemplate the possibility that stress will develop. When headlines emerge and concerns emerge that those -- that stress might that may be a bit more acute, then at that point, we do factor for that, but it's not a wholesale change, right?

因此，我們的定價、產品組合管理、圍繞資產負債表做出的決策、再保險購買，所有這些項目都已經考慮到了壓力的可能性。當頭條新聞出現並且人們擔心這些壓力可能會更加嚴重時，那麼在那時，我們確實會考慮到這一點，但這並不是一個徹底的改變，對嗎？

By embedding that discipline and conservatism, we can make sure that we're always showing up for our customers and their borrowers with consistency. And so there's things that we do in an environment like today where we might further refine our thinking, but it's not a wholesale shift in how we engage in the market what our posture is.

透過根植這種紀律和保守主義，我們可以確保始終如一地為我們的客戶及其借款人提供服務。因此，在當今這樣的環境下，我們可能會做一些事情來進一步完善我們的思維，但這並不是我們參與市場的方式和姿態的全面轉變。

Okay, great. That's helpful. Thanks. And then, actually, what was your provision for new notices in 1Q versus 4Q just given the intra-quarter recovery that just makes it hard to do the math over the prior quarter?

好的，太好了。這很有幫助。謝謝。那麼，實際上，考慮到季度內的復甦使得很難計算上一季的數據，您對第一季和第四季的新通知的準備金是多少？

Yeah, it's 13,500 is the reserve that we put up on new notices. And you're right, it is sometimes difficult to parse from the table. Just there were a number of hurricane-related NODs in the quarter. And if you know, we discount or we reserve at a different level given the different behavior we see in the disaster-related NODs.

是的，我們在新通知中公佈的儲備數量是 13,500。你說得對，有時從表格中解析確實很困難。本季發生了多起與颶風相關的 NOD。如果您知道的話，我們會根據與災難相關的 NOD 中看到的不同行為，以不同的水平進行折扣或儲備。

Okay. And what was the number last quarter?

好的。上個季度的數字是多少？

It was roughly equivalent. So that's 13,500, excluding the the hurricane-related NODs to take that noise out of the equation.

大致相當。因此，該數字為 13,500，不包括與颶風相關的 NOD，以將噪音排除在外。

Yeah, and just in the in the aggregate. So in the aggregate, we posted a little under 26 million of reserves against the new notices that emerged in the first quarter. Some of the noise that I was talking about, so there's the storm-related energy that creates some distortions.

是的，整體來說是這樣。因此，整體而言，針對第一季出現的新通知，我們提列的準備金略低於 2,600 萬。我剛才談到的一些噪音，就是與風暴相關的能量造成的一些扭曲。

Also, you may remember we've got some notes in our release that the IBNR dynamic incurred but not reported can introduce a little bit of noise in the quarter. But when you normalize for those items in the aggregate, it's about 26 million. But on an average reserve per new notice, it's pretty consistent with where we were in Q4.

此外，您可能還記得，我們​​在發布中提到過，發生但未報告的 IBNR 動態可能會在本季度帶來一些噪音。但當你將這些項目按總數標準化時，它大約是 2600 萬。但就每份新通知的平均儲備量而言，它與第四季的情況相當一致。

Okay, great. Thanks.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Rick Shane, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的里克·沙恩。

Good afternoon, everybody. Excuse me. Two questions, and I apologize if I missed this. Did you provide the buyback during the quarter?

大家下午好。打擾一下。有兩個問題，如果我沒注意到，我很抱歉。您在本季提供了回購嗎？

We did. It was $25.9 million or 718,000 shares.

我們做到了。價值 2590 萬美元，即 718,000 股。

Excellent. Thank you.

出色的。謝謝。

Second question. We're in this odd period where the portfolio is so bifurcated in terms of the characteristics. It's not the normal distribution. And one of the characteristics of the season vintages is a tremendous amount of HPA.

第二個問題。我們正處於一個奇怪的時期，投資組合在特徵上呈現出很大的分歧。這不是常態分佈。本季葡萄酒的一個特點是含有大量的 HPA。

Is there any concern at this point despite the fact that rates are so high and refi activity is muted that there could be some sort of adverse selection related to extinguishment of PMI on some of those really strong vintages?

儘管利率如此之高，再融資活動低迷，但目前是否存在任何擔憂，即在某些真正強勁的年份，PMI 的取消可能會帶來某種逆向選擇？

Yeah, Rick. Maybe let me answer, but also let me just share one comment around the question you posed too. You said there's a real bifurcation across the portfolio, and I'd want to reiterate there's consistency across all vintages in terms of what the underlying borrower loan risk characteristics are, the broad geographic diversification that we have, the broad customer diversification, all of that holds across all vintages.

是的，里克。也許讓我回答，但也讓我圍繞你提出的問題分享一則評論。您說整個投資組合存在著真正的分歧，我想重申的是，從基礎借款人貸款風險特徵、我們廣泛的地域多樣化、廣泛的客戶多樣化來看，所有年份的投資組合都是一致的，所有這些都適用於所有年份。

So when we think about the quality of our portfolio, those core sort of foundational drivers of credit performance, borrow risk attributes, loan risk attributes, property risk attributes, geographic diversification, all of those hold. The only notable difference is differences in the level of equitization from the time of origination to where we sit today. And that's real. That will have an impact on loan performance and our claim experience across the different vintages.

因此，當我們考慮投資組合的品質時，信貸表現的核心基礎驅動因素、借款風險屬性、貸款風險屬性、財產風險屬性、地理多樣化等都適用。唯一顯著的差異是從起源時到今天的股權化程度的差異。這是真的。這將對貸款表現和我們不同時期的索賠經驗產生影響。

But the entire portfolio was high quality. It was underwritten with consistency and with a similar focus across all times. So the question as to whether or not there's adverse selection that might come through, no, we're not seeing that. I think it's the rate environment more than anything that drives the refinancing opportunity.

但整個投資組合的品質都很高。它的承保始終保持一致，並且始終具有相似的重點。所以關於是否存在逆向選擇的問題是，沒有，我們沒有看到。我認為，利率環境是推動再融資機會的主要因素。

And perhaps on the margin, there's this sort of natural dynamic that happens with automatic cancellations that happen at a 78% scheduled, not appreciated LTV. So if you think that your lower-risk policies are, say, your 85s and your 90s because you're starting with more equity even before any house price appreciation, those are loans that naturally hit a point of automatic cancellation before higher LTV loans because they're obviously closer to 78.

或許在邊緣上，存在這種自然動態，即在 78% 的預定自動取消時發生，而不是 LTV 被欣賞。因此，如果您認為您的低風險政策是 85 歲和 90 歲政策，因為您在房價上漲之前就擁有更多的資產，那麼這些貸款自然會在更高 LTV 貸款之前達到自動取消點，因為它們顯然更接近 78 歲。

So it may be like a little bit, but there's nothing from a borrower behavior or strategy standpoint that we're seeing come through. It's really all driven by the prevailing rate environment compared to their underlying note rate and the opportunity for savings.

因此，可能有點這樣，但從借款人行為或策略的角度來看，我們並沒有看到任何變化。這其實都是由現行利率環境與其基礎票據利率和儲蓄機會的比較所驅動的。

Got it. No, and look, it's a fair point in terms of the going in or the entry borrower quality. But I also think it's fair to say that a borrower with a 4% loan and 35% HPA, the credit profile over the next couple of years is probably different than similar borrower going in who's got a 6.5% coupon and 5% or 10% HPA.

知道了。不，從進入或進入借款人的品質來看，這是一個公平的觀點。但我也認為，公平地說，一個擁有 4% 貸款和 35% HPA 的借款人，未來幾年的信用狀況可能與擁有 6.5% 息票和 5% 或 10% HPA 的類似借款人不同。

Yeah, absolutely. We were saying the same thing, right? I would say that that's not different credit profile. It's different loan experience and performance. But yeah, absolutely, those items do matter.

是的，絕對是如此。我們說的是同一件事，對嗎？我想說的是，這並不是不同的信用狀況。這是不同的貸款體驗和表現。但是，是的，這些物品確實很重要。

Okay, cool. Thank you guys very much.

好的，很酷。非常感謝你們。

(Operator Instructions) This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to management for any closing remarks.

（操作員指示）我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議交還給管理階層，請他們發表結束語。

Well, thank you all again for joining us. We'll be participating in the KBW Virtual Real Estate Finance Conference on May 20 and the Truist Financial Services Conference in New York on May 21. We look forward to speaking with you again soon.

好吧，再次感謝大家加入我們。我們將參加 5 月 20 日的 KBW 虛擬房地產金融會議和 5 月 21 日在紐約舉行的 Truist 金融服務會議。我們期待很快再次與您交談。

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。