NACCO Industries Inc (NC) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the NACCO Industries second-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) This call is being recorded on Thursday, August 1, 2024.

早安，女士們、先生們，歡迎參加 NACCO Industries 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）此通話錄音時間為 2024 年 8 月 1 日星期四。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Christina Kmetko. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議轉交給克里斯蒂娜·克梅特科。請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our second-quarter 2024 earnings call. Thank you for joining us this morning. I'm Christina Kmetko, and I'm responsible for investor relations at NACCO. Joining me today are J.C. Butler, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Elizabeth Loveman, Senior Vice President and Controller.

謝謝。大家早安，歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。感謝您今天早上加入我們。我是 Christina Kmetko，負責 NACCO 的投資人關係。今天與我一起出席的有總裁兼執行長 J.C. Butler；以及資深副總裁兼財務總監伊麗莎白·洛夫曼 (Elizabeth Loveman)。

Yesterday, we published our 2024 second-quarter results and filed our 10-Q. This information is available on our website. Today's call is also being webcast. The webcast will be on our website later this morning and available for approximately 12 months.

昨天，我們發布了 2024 年第二季業績並提交了 10 季業績報告。此資訊可在我們的網站上找到。今天的電話會議也進行了網路直播。該網路廣播將於今天上午晚些時候在我們的網站上播出，持續約 12 個月。

Our remarks that follow, including answers to your questions, contain forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to several risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements made here today.

我們接下來的評論，包括您問題的回答，均包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述受到多種風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與今天發布的前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。

These risks include, among others, matters that we've described in our earnings release, 10-Q, and other SEC filings. We may not update these forward-looking statements until our next quarterly earnings conference call.

這些風險包括我們在收益報告、10-Q 和其他 SEC 文件中所述的事項等。在下一次季度收益電話會議之前，我們可能不會更新這些前瞻性聲明。

We'll also be discussing non-GAAP information that we believe is useful in evaluating the company's operating performance. Reconciliations for these non-GAAP measures can be found in our earnings release and on our website.

我們也將討論我們認為有助於評估公司經營績效的非公認會計準則資訊。這些非公認會計原則措施的調節可以在我們的收益發布和我們的網站上找到。

With the formalities out of the way, I'll turn the call over to J.C. for some opening remarks. J.C.

手續辦完後，我會將電話轉給 J.C. 進行開場白。J.C.

Thank you, Christie, and good morning, everyone. We are halfway through the year, and I'm pleased to be talking about another strong quarter. Our 2024 second-quarter operating profit increased substantially from a year ago.

謝謝克里斯蒂，大家早安。今年已過半，我很高興談論另一個強勁的季度。我們2024年第二季的營業利潤較上年同期大幅成長。

Looking at the reported numbers, it's up 321%. I need to point out that within those results is a $4.5 million gain on sale of a legacy land asset. Excluding the gain, our operating profit still increased over 60% from last year's second quarter. This increase was driven by a significant improvement in results in our coal mining and North American mining segments.

從報告的數字來看，成長了 321%。我需要指出的是，在這些結果中，出售遺留土地資產獲得了 450 萬美元的收益。剔除收益後，我們的營業利潤仍比去年第二季成長了60%以上。這一增長是由我們的煤炭開採和北美採礦部門業績顯著改善所推動的。

Christie will go into more detail about our second-quarter earnings and provide an overview of our outlook in a minute, but first, let me give you an update on our operations. I'll start with our coal mining segment, which saw the biggest year-over-year improvement.

克里斯蒂將更詳細地介紹我們第二季的收益，並在一分鐘內概述我們的前景，但首先，讓我向您介紹我們營運的最新情況。我將從我們的煤炭開採部門開始，該部門比去年同期改善最大。

I'm pleased to report that customer repairs to the damaged boiler at the Red Hills power plant are progressing, and we believe the boiler issue should be resolved and the plant fully operational by the fourth quarter.

我很高興地向大家報告，客戶對紅山發電廠受損鍋爐的維修工作正在進行中，我們相信鍋爐問題應該得到解決，並且工廠將在第四季度全面投入運作。

As you can see from our financials, the coal mining segment's revenues decreased primarily due to fewer coal deliveries as a result of the plant running on only one boiler. We look forward to seeing deliveries increase as the plant returns to normal operations with two boilers.

從我們的財務數據可以看出，煤炭開採部門的收入下降主要是由於工廠僅使用一台鍋爐運行，導致煤炭交付量減少。隨著工廠的兩台鍋爐恢復正常運營，我們期待看到交付量的增加。

Despite lower customer demand, Mississippi Lignite Mining Company's Red Hills Mine operated more efficiently this quarter than during 2023. If you recall, last year, we were in the midst of moving to a new mine area and contending with difficult mining conditions related both to the move and to new weather -- into adverse weather.

儘管客戶需求較低，密西西比褐煤礦業公司的紅山礦本季的營運效率高於 2023 年。如果您還記得，去年，我們正在搬遷到新礦區，並應對與搬遷和新天氣（惡劣天氣）相關的困難採礦條件。

This year, we are established in the new mine area and mining conditions have improved, allowing us to operate more efficiently, which helped year-over-year results. Our production costs still remain above historical levels, and they're expected to stay high until deliveries return to normal later this year.

今年，我們在新礦區落戶，採礦條件得到改善，使我們的營運效率更高，這有助於實現同比業績。我們的生產成本仍然高於歷史水平，預計在今年稍後交貨恢復正常之前，它們將保持在高位。

I'd also like to note the improvement in our earnings and our unconsolidated coal mining operations. You may recall that when Rainbow Energy acquired the Coal Creek Station power plant in 2022, we provided temporary price concessions to help facilitate the transaction.

我還想指出我們的收入和未合併的煤炭開採業務的改善。您可能還記得，2022年Rainbow Energy收購Coal Creek Station發電廠時，我們提供了臨時價格優惠以幫助促進交易。

At the end of May, these price concessions ended, which contributed to the increase in our coal mining segment results. Our North American mining segment also delivered strong year-over-year earnings improvement. North American mining's operating profit improved 39%, and segment adjusted EBITDA increased 36% compared with 2023.

5月底，這些價格優惠結束，促進了我們煤炭開採部門業績的成長。我們的北美採礦業務也實現了同比強勁的獲利成長。與 2023 年相比，北美礦業的營業利潤成長了 39%，部門調整後 EBITDA 成長了 36%。

I am pleased with the progress the North American mining team has made on operational and strategic projects that contributed to the improved 2024 second-quarter results. This includes diversification into additional minerals, such as mining phosphate for a new customer in Florida.

我對北美礦業團隊在營運和策略專案上的進展感到高興，這些進展為 2024 年第二季業績的改善做出了貢獻。這包括多元化發展其他礦物，例如為佛羅裡達州的新客戶開採磷酸鹽。

Overall, I believe we are making meaningful progress towards building this segment into a very successful business platform.

總的來說，我相信我們正在取得有意義的進展，將這一領域打造成一個非常成功的商業平台。

At minerals management, second-quarter operating profit increased over the prior year because of the gain on sale I mentioned previously. Excluding the gain, minerals management's earnings were down year over year, primarily due to a 39% decline in minerals management revenues, largely driven by substantially lower natural gas and oil prices.

在礦產管理方面，由於我之前提到的銷售收益，第二季營業利潤比上年有所成長。剔除收益後，礦產管理收入較去年同期下降，主要是由於礦產管理收入下降 39%，而這主要是由於天然氣和石油價格大幅下跌所致。

The Catapult Minerals Partners team, which oversees this segment, has done a great job of growing and diversifying our portfolio of mineral interests over the last few years. They have expanded our portfolio of mineral interests, and we are more diversified in terms of operators, geographic footprint, and stages of mineral development, ranging from producing wells to undeveloped mineral interests. Catapult team is targeting mineral interest investments of up to $20 million in 2024.

負責監督這一領域的 Catapult Minerals Partners 團隊在過去幾年中在擴大和多樣化我們的礦產權益投資組合方面做得非常出色。他們擴大了我們的礦產權益組合，我們在營運商、地理足跡和礦產開發階段（從生產井到未開發礦產權益）方面更加多元化。Catapult 團隊的目標是到 2024 年礦產權益投資高達 2,000 萬美元。

Finally, moving to our mitigation resources of North America business, results were down year over year due to a change in the mix of projects. However, this team continues to execute existing mitigation and reclamation projects and build on the substantial foundation it has established over the past several years.

最後，轉向我們的北美業務緩解資源，由於專案組合的變化，業績年減。然而，該團隊繼續執行現有的緩解和復墾項目，並在過去幾年建立的堅實基礎上繼續發展。

As I mentioned last quarter, mitigation resources is advancing its business plan more quickly than we anticipated. As this business matures, we believe it can provide solid returns -- rates of return on capital employed.

正如我上季度提到的，緩解資源正在以比我們預期更快的速度推進其業務計劃。隨著這項業務的成熟，我們相信它可以提供堅實的回報——所使用資本的回報率。

Overall, I continue to be very optimistic about our outlook for the remainder of 2024 and beyond. I have a lot of confidence in our team, and I am pleased with the way all of these businesses continue to advance their strategies, including efforts to protect our coal mining business.

總體而言，我對 2024 年剩餘時間及以後的前景仍然非常樂觀。我對我們的團隊充滿信心，我對所有這些企業繼續推進其策略的方式感到滿意，包括為保護我們的煤礦開採業務所做的努力。

With that, I'll turn the call back over to Christie to cover our results for the quarter and our outlook in more detail. Christie?

接下來，我將把電話轉回給科視，更詳細地介紹我們本季的業績和我們的前景。克里斯蒂？

Thank you, J.C. Let me begin with some high level comments about our consolidated second-quarter financial results, then I'll provide some detail on our individual segments. For the 2024 second quarter, we reported consolidated income before taxes of $6.2 million and net income of $6 million or $0.81 per share. This compared to income before taxes of $3.3 million and net income of $2.5 million or $0.34 per share in 2023.

謝謝 J.C. 首先讓我對我們的第二季度綜合財務業績進行一些高層評論，然後我將提供有關我們各個部門的一些詳細信息。2024 年第二季度，我們公佈的稅前綜合收入為 620 萬美元，淨利潤為 600 萬美元，即每股 0.81 美元。相比之下，2023 年稅前收入為 330 萬美元，淨利潤為 250 萬美元，即每股 0.34 美元。

EBITDA was $13.5 million compared with $9.2 million last year. The $4.5 million pretax gain on sale that J.C. mentioned earlier is included in these results. While our operating profit increased even after excluding the gain, the same can't be said for income before taxes, net income and EBITDA, a $2.6 million year-over-year unfavorable change in other expense more than offset the operating profit improvement.

EBITDA 為 1,350 萬美元，去年為 920 萬美元。J.C. 先前提到的 450 萬美元稅前銷售收益包含在這些業績中。雖然我們的營業利潤即使在剔除收益後仍有所增長，但稅前收入、淨利潤和 EBITDA 卻並非如此，其他費用同比 260 萬美元的不利變化足以抵消營業利潤的增長。

This change was driven by higher net interest expense due to an increase in debt levels and lower cash levels as well as unfavorable changes in the market value of equity securities. It is worth noting that neither of those unfavorable changes are tied directly to operations.

此變化是由於債務水準增加和現金水準下降導致淨利息支出增加以及股本證券市場價值的不利變化所致。值得注意的是，這些不利的變化都與營運沒有直接關係。

Excluding the gain on sale, operating profit grew primarily due to significant improvements in earnings at our coal mining and North American mining segments. These unfavorable items were partly offset by lower minerals management and mitigation resources gross profits, as J.C. already discussed, and an increase in unallocated employee-related expenses.

排除銷售收益，營業利潤的成長主要是由於我們的煤炭開採和北美採礦部門的收益顯著改善。正如 J.C. 已經討論過的那樣，這些不利項目被礦產管理和緩解資源毛利的下降以及未分配的員工相關費用的增加部分抵消。

Our coal mining segment reported operating profit of $2.8 million and generated segment adjusted EBITDA of $5.7 million. This compares to an operating loss of $4.7 million and just below breakeven segment-adjusted EBITDA in 2023. J.C. generally discussed the reasons for the higher coal mining segment results.

我們的煤炭開採部門報告營業利潤為 280 萬美元，部門調整後 EBITDA 為 570 萬美元。相較之下，2023 年營運虧損為 470 萬美元，略低於損益平衡部門調整後的 EBITDA。J.C. 整體討論了煤炭開採部門業績較高的原因。

I would note that in addition to the favorable Mississippi Lignite Mining Company results and higher fall pricing, an increase in customer requirements at the unconsolidated operations as well as higher Sabine reclamation earnings also contributed to the profit improvement.

我要指出的是，除了密西西比褐煤礦業公司的良好業績和較高的秋季定價外，未合併業務的客戶需求增加以及薩賓開墾收益的增加也促進了利潤的改善。

At North American mining, operating profit of $3.1 million and EBITDA of $5.5 million increased significantly compared with last year. The second quarter improvements were due to several factors: an increase in customer requirements, favorable pricing and delivery mix, improved margins at the limestone quarries resulting from mutually beneficial contract amendments, and commencement of the new 15-year contract to mine phosphate that J.C. mentioned.

北美礦業的營業利潤為 310 萬美元，EBITDA 為 550 萬美元，較去年大幅成長。第二季的改善歸因於以下幾個因素：客戶需求的增加、有利的定價和交付組合、互惠互利的合約修訂導致石灰石採石場利潤率的提高，以及J.C. 提到的新的15 年期磷酸鹽開採合約的開始。

Looking forward, we expect our coal mining segment operating profit to increase significantly in both the 2024 second half and full year compared with the respective 2023 period. This improvement occurs with or without the $60.8 million impairment charge taken in fourth quarter 2023.

展望未來，我們預期煤炭開採板塊的營業利潤在 2024 年下半年和全年均較 2023 年同期大幅成長。無論是否考慮 2023 年第四季 6,080 萬美元的減損費用，都會出現這種改善。

Higher segment-adjusted EBITDA, which excludes the impairment charge, is also projected for both periods. These anticipated increases are primarily due to an expected substantial improvement in results at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company and higher earnings at the unconsolidated coal mining operations.

預計這兩個時期的經部門調整的 EBITDA（不包括減損費用）也會更高。這些預期成長主要是由於密西西比褐煤礦業公司業績預期大幅改善以及未合併煤炭開採業務的獲利增加。

The projected increase in second-half 2024 earnings at the unconsolidated coal mining operations is driven primarily by an expectation for increased customer requirements at Coteau and Falkirk, as well as a higher per ton management fee at Falkirk due to the cessation of temporary price concessions.

預計 2024 年下半年未合併煤礦開採業務的收益將增加，主要是由於 Coteau 和 Falkirk 客戶需求增加的預期，以及 Falkirk 因停止臨時價格優惠而導致每噸管理費上漲。

Second half 2024 results are also expected to increase significantly over the 2024 first half due to current expectations that the boiler issue at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company's customer's plant will be resolved, and the plant will be fully operational by the fourth quarter of 2024.

由於目前預計密西西比褐煤礦業公司客戶工廠的鍋爐問題將得到解決，並且該工廠將在 2024 年第四季度全面運營，因此預計 2024 年下半年業績也將比 2024 年上半年大幅增長。

Turning to North American mining. We expect operating profit and segment-adjusted EBITDA to increase in both the 2024 second half and full year over the respective 2023 periods that decreased from the 2024 first half.

轉向北美採礦業。我們預計 2024 年下半年和全年的營業利潤和部門調整後 EBITDA 都將比 2024 年上半年下降的 2023 年同期有所增加。

The year-over-year improvements are primarily due to mutually advantageous limestone contract amendments, a scope of work expansion with another customer, and the second quarter 2024 commencement of mining at the new phosphate mine. Earnings in the second half are expected to moderate from the first half of the year due to anticipated lower customer requirements.

同比改善主要歸功於互利的石灰石合約修訂、與另一家客戶的工作範圍擴大以及新磷礦將於 2024 年第二季度開始採礦。由於預期客戶需求下降，預計下半年獲利將較上半年放緩。

Finally, at minerals management, we expect 2024 second-half and full-year operating profit and segment-adjusted EBITDA to increase over the respective 2023 periods, excluding the fourth-quarter impairment charge of $5.1 million.

最後，在礦產管理方面，我們預計 2024 年下半年和全年營業利潤以及部門調整後的 EBITDA 將較 2023 年同期有所增長，不包括第四季度 510 萬美元的減值費用。

These improvements are primarily driven by current market expectations for natural gas and oil prices, as well as development and production assumptions on currently owned reserves. Based on current market expectations, operating profit in the second half of 2024 is expected to increase moderately compared with the first half, excluding the $4.5 million gain on sale recognized in the second quarter.

這些改善主要是由當前市場對天然氣和石油價格的預期以及對現有儲量的開發和生產假設所推動的。根據目前的市場預期，剔除第二季確認的450萬美元銷售收益，2024年下半年的營業利潤預計將較上半年溫和成長。

As I've mentioned, our second-half 2023 results included a pretax impairment charge totaling $65.9 million. My upcoming comments about our expected consolidated results exclude the effect of this charge. We expect our consolidated second-half operating profit to increase compared with both the first half of 2024 and second half of 2023.

正如我所提到的，我們 2023 年下半年的業績包括總計 6,590 萬美元的稅前減損費用。我即將對我們的預期綜合業績發表的評論排除了這項費用的影響。我們預計下半年的綜合營業利潤將較 2024 年上半年和 2023 年下半年增加。

These improvements are primarily due to anticipated increases in profitability at the coal mining segment and contributions from North American mining growth and profit improvement initiatives. We also expect consolidated net income in the 2024 second half and full year to increase compared with the respective 2023 periods.

這些改善主要歸因於煤炭開採部門獲利能力的預期成長以及北美礦業成長和利潤改善計畫的貢獻。我們也預計 2024 年下半年和全年的合併淨利潤將較 2023 年相應成長。

This improvement is anticipated to be partly offset by higher income tax expense and an increase in net interest expense because of additional borrowings and lower cash levels.

預計這種改善將被所得稅費用的增加以及由於額外借款和現金水準下降而導致的淨利息費用的增加所部分抵消。

All that said, we are taking steps to terminate our defined benefit pension plan. We anticipate the termination will result in a non-cash settlement charge in the 2024 fourth quarter, which is expected to partly offset the improvement in the second-half operating profit.

儘管如此，我們正在採取措施終止我們的固定福利退休金計劃。我們預計終止將導致 2024 年第四季產生非現金結算費用，預計這將部分抵消下半年營業利潤的改善。

As a result, we are projecting that consolidated net income and adjusted EBITDA will decrease in the second half of 2024 compared with the first half of the year. While the company anticipates that third quarter net income will improve significantly over the second quarter, fourth quarter net income is expected to be substantially lower than both the third quarter and prior year fourth quarter, mainly as a result of the anticipated non-cash pension settlement charge.

因此，我們預計 2024 年下半年的合併淨利潤和調整後 EBITDA 將較上半年下降。雖然該公司預計第三季淨利潤將較第二季大幅改善，但預計第四季度淨利潤將大幅低於第三季和去年第四季，主要是由於預期的非現金退休金結算收費。

Before I turn the call over to questions, let me close with some information about our balance sheet and cash flow. We ended the quarter with consolidated cash of approximately $62 million and debt of $61 million. We had availability of $89 million under our revolving credit facility.

在我將電話轉入提問之前，讓我以一些有關我們的資產負債表和現金流的資訊作為結束語。本季結束時，我們的綜合現金約為 6,200 萬美元，債務為 6,100 萬美元。我們的循環信貸額度為 8,900 萬美元。

During the second quarter, we repurchased approximately 108,000 shares for $3.3 million under an existing share repurchase program. In 2024, we expect cash flow before financing activities to be a use of cash.

第二季度，我們根據現有股票回購計畫以 330 萬美元回購了約 108,000 股股票。2024年，我們預期融資活動前的現金流量為現金使用。

We will now turn to any questions you may have.

我們現在將回答您可能提出的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Douglas Weiss, DSW Investment.

（操作員說明）Douglas Weiss，DSW Investment。

Hi. Good morning.

你好。早安.

Good morning.

早安.

Good morning.

早安.

Just first question on North American mining. It sounds like you're optimistic about the growth prospects for that business. And I wondered if you could just talk a little bit about where you see the greatest opportunities to add customers, both in terms of product lines and whether you're expanding business with existing customers or completely new customers.

關於北美採礦業的第一個問題。聽起來您對該業務的成長前景感到樂觀。我想知道您是否可以簡單談談您認為增加客戶的最佳機會，無論是在產品線方面，還是在與現有客戶或全新客戶擴展業務方面。

It's a good, excellent question. I would say we've had considerable success with expanding our relationships with existing customers. That's happened quite frequently over the last several years as we started growing this business. But we also have added a lot of new customers. We've added a lot of new geography. We've increased the range of equipment that we operate as well.

這是一個很好的問題。我想說，我們在擴大與現有客戶的關係方面取得了相當大的成功。過去幾年，當我們開始發展這項業務時，這種情況經常發生。但我們也增加了許多新客戶。我們新增了很多新的地理區域。我們也增加了我們營運的設備範圍。

About nine years ago, nine years ago, we really got focused on growing this business. At the time, we were operating draglines to mine lime rock underwater for customers in Florida. And we said, gosh, it doesn't have to be a dragline, it doesn't have to be just limestone, and it doesn't have to be in Florida. And that's really where we've been pushing ever since with a lot of success.

大約九年前，九年前，我們真正專注於發展這項業務。當時，我們正在為佛羅裡達州的客戶操作拉鏟，在水下開採石灰岩。我們說，天哪，它不一定是拉鏟，不一定是石灰石，也不一定是在佛羅裡達州。從那時起，這就是我們一直在努力推動的方向，並且取得了巨大的成功。

So I think what you're going to see and what we expect to happen is growth with existing customers, but I also think we're going to be adding new customers, new contracts, expanding the range of equipment that we operate. A good example of that is we're currently operating a surface miner, which is a lot like the machines that you see planing asphalt on highways, but they're much larger.

因此，我認為您將看到和我們期望發生的是現有客戶的成長，但我也認為我們將增加新客戶、新合同，擴大我們營運的設備範圍。一個很好的例子是，我們目前正在運營一台露天採礦機，它很像您在高速公路上看到的刨瀝青的機器，但它們要大得多。

We're currently using that with a customer to mine lime rock with great success, and we think that's -- it's a tricky piece of equipment, and we've got particular expertise in operating that piece of equipment, and we think there's a lot of opportunities there. As an example, we of course will continue to expand operating our dragline piece of the business.

我們目前正在與客戶一起使用它來開採石灰岩，取得了巨大成功，我們認為這是一個棘手的設備，我們在操作該設備方面擁有特殊的專業知識，我們認為有很多那裡的機會。例如，我們當然將繼續擴大我們的吊鬥鏟業務。

Again, a specialized, complicated piece of equipment we've got particular skills at operating. And we operate truck-to-truck shovel operations, too. So I think the opportunities that we have are pretty substantial across the board.

同樣，這是一種專門的、複雜的設備，我們擁有特殊的操作技能。我們也開展卡車到卡車的鏟運業務。因此，我認為我們所擁有的機會在各個方面都是相當可觀的。

I guess I'd add to that, we have customer relationships in that segment that really aren't delivering significant profit yet. And a great example of that is the lithium operation in Northern Nevada. That's currently in the development stage. It's been in development stage for a few years.

我想我要補充一點，我們在該領域的客戶關係實際上還沒有帶來可觀的利潤。內華達州北部的鋰業務就是一個很好的例子。目前正處於開發階段。它已經處於開發階段幾年了。

We expect that to really ramp up over the next few years, and we should be producing lithium and earning substantially more money there a few years from now. So some of the future growth is already under contract. Others are in various stages of development. Is that helpful?

我們預計未來幾年這一數字將真正上升，幾年後我們應該在那裡生產鋰並賺取更多的錢。因此，未來的一些成長已經在合約中。其他的則處於不同的發展階段。有幫助嗎？

Yes, that's great. So when -- if one of your aggregate customers is expanding business with you, is that because they feel like you're just better at those particular tasks and it's cheaper for them to have you do it than do it themselves? Is that what's happening?

是的，那太好了。那麼，如果您的總客戶之一正在與您擴展業務，是因為他們覺得您在這些特定任務上更勝一籌，而且讓您做比自己做對他們來說更便宜嗎？是這樣嗎？

Yeah. Yeah. I mean this is what we do. It's been a couple of years ago, but I remember having dinner with one of the very, very large producers of aggregates. Some of their regional senior leadership team and guys said we are great at identifying the markets and understanding the products we need and figuring out how to capitalize on all of that.

是的。是的。我的意思是這就是我們所做的。那是幾年前的事了，但我記得與一家非常非常大的骨料生產商共進晚餐。他們的一些區域高級領導團隊和人員表示，我們非常擅長識別市場、了解我們需要的產品以及弄清楚如何利用所有這些。

He said, we are not miners. And we need your expertise to make sure we've got the products we need in the quantities we need and the qualities we need when we need them.

他說，我們不是礦工。我們需要您的專業知識來確保我們獲得所需數量的產品以及所需的品質。

And this is our expertise and we come in, and I think in every instance, we've improved productivity. We've improved cost positioning. We help our customers be successful in their business.

這是我們的專業知識，我們進來了，我認為在每個情況下，我們都提高了生產力。我們改進了成本定位。我們幫助客戶取得業務成功。

Do you -- on the phosphate side, are you seeing an opportunity to bring on more phosphate customers?

在磷酸鹽方面，您是否看到了吸引更多磷酸鹽客戶的機會？

Well, I mean as a guy who's worked in business development for a long time, I will say absolutely, right? We're looking at all sorts of additional customers. But I will tell you, we've spent a number of years looking for the right opportunity to start providing mining services into that part of the mining world. So this is really very new and very fresh for us. But sure, there's no reason we couldn't find more phosphates.

嗯，我的意思是，作為一個長期從事業務開發的人，我會說絕對，對吧？我們正在尋找各種額外的客戶。但我會告訴你，我們花了很多年的時間尋找合適的機會開始向採礦界的這一部分提供採礦服務。所以這對我們來說確實是非常新的、非常新鮮的。但可以肯定的是，我們沒有理由找不到更多的磷酸鹽。

Okay. Great. So moving on to mineral management. I asked you a little bit last quarter about the reserve base. And another way I thought of asking a similar question is, is that the sense -- if the goal were not to grow your inventory but just to replenish the depleted inventory or the drilled inventory, do you have a sense of what the capital cost of that would be?

好的。偉大的。因此，繼續進行礦物管理。上個季度我問你一些關於儲備基地的問題。我想問類似問題的另一種方式是，如果目標不是增加庫存，而只是補充耗盡的庫存或鑽探的庫存，那麼您是否了解資本成本是多少？

No, is the short answer. We're on a $20 million a year pace, which is a reinvestment pace, and that is growing the business. So it's going to be a number less than $20 million, but I don't know what that number would be.

不，這是簡短的回答。我們的步伐是每年 2000 萬美元，這是再投資的步伐，也是業務成長的動力。所以這將是一個不到 2000 萬美元的數字，但我不知道這個數字是多少。

Okay. And on a more granular level there. I was a little surprised to see the oil production down given the investments you made last year. I don't know if you're able to provide any sort of color on whether that was just short term.

好的。在更細粒度的層面上。考慮到你們去年的投資，我對石油產量下降感到有點驚訝。我不知道你是否能夠提供任何顏色來說明這是否只是短期的。

No, it's a good question. I would say part of this is because unlike a number of other mineral investors who -- those guys -- any of them that are private equity backed or doing this with a lot of leverage, they're buying primarily active producing wells because they need to feed the machine, whether they're a yield co or trying to service their debt or satisfy their sponsor needs.

不，這是一個好問題。我想說，部分原因是，與許多其他礦產投資者不同，他們——這些人——他們中的任何人都是私募股權支持的，或者利用大量槓桿來做這件事的，他們主要購買活躍的生產井，因為他們需要為機器提供食物，無論他們是收益公司還是試圖償還債務或滿足贊助商的需求。

We're really doing this for the very long term, and we're happy to buy things that are producing as well as things that might produce in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years or longer. So you shouldn't necessarily assume that because we did a significant acquisition that that's going to immediately drop to the bottom line. We value these acquisitions.

我們確實是從長遠來看這樣做的，我們很高興購買正在生產的產品以及可能在 2 年、5 年、10 年或更長時間內生產的產品。因此，您不一定會因為我們進行了一項重大收購而假設這將立即下降到底線。我們重視這些收購。

When we're looking at the package that's being offered, we look at the whole range of assets there, assign values to them in a sort of a very detailed NPV kind of approach, making estimates about when we think things might get developed, and that's how we assess value and what we're willing to pay. But it's not all producing wells that are going to immediately show results on the bottom line.

當我們查看所提供的一攬子計劃時，我們會查看那裡的所有資產，以一種非常詳細的 NPV 方法為它們分配價值，對我們認為事情可能何時開發的時間進行估計，並且這就是我們評估價值和我們願意支付的費用的方式。但並非所有生產井都會立即顯示出獲利結果。

Okay. Makes sense. On the coal operation, your projected capital spend for the second half is a little higher than the first half. And I think in some prior calls, you had commented that you were going to be limiting capital spend on your coal assets. So I was just curious whether that is a bit of a change in approach or whether there's just some one-time things that you need to spend on?

好的。有道理。在煤炭營運方面，預計下半年的資本支出略高於上半年。我認為在之前的一些電話中，您曾評論說您將限制煤炭資產的資本支出。所以我只是好奇這是否是一種方法上的改變，或者只是一些你需要花在一次性的事情上？

Well, so I'd say -- I just want to clarify. You used the word limiting. And I would tell you that we -- I mean, we certainly spend a lot of time with our operating folks and our engineers thinking about what is the most effective and efficient way to invest capital. I mean obviously, you don't want to overinvest. We want to find the exact right tool to do the job when we're looking to spend capital.

嗯，所以我想說——我只是想澄清一下。你使用了字數限制。我想告訴你，我們——我的意思是，我們確實花了很多時間與我們的操作人員和工程師一起思考什麼是最有效和最高效的資本投資方式。我的意思是，顯然，你不想過度投資。當我們需要花費資金時，我們希望找到正確的工具來完成這項工作。

We would not limit -- tell these guys, gee, you can only have half as much as you need, because that's going to adversely affect their ability to operate. It's going to adversely affect their ability to be efficient and optimize efficiency. So we balance that out very carefully.

我們不會限制──告訴這些人，天啊，你只能擁有你需要的一半，因為這會對他們的運作能力產生不利影響。這將對他們提高效率和優化效率的能力產生不利影響。所以我們非常仔細地平衡這一點。

What we are doing, the only place in the coal mining segment where we really spend capital is at MLMC. And as we've come through the development of Mine Area 3 and really now fully operating over there, we've expected the CapEx to drop off over time. The shift between quarters or the shift between first part of the year and last part of the year is probably more related to timing of some of those investments or one-time things.

我們正在做的事情是，在煤礦開採領域，我們真正花費資金的唯一地方是 MLMC。隨著我們完成了 3 號礦區的開發，現在已經在那裡全面運營，我們預計資本支出會隨著時間的推移而下降。季度之間的變化或今年上半年和今年下半年之間的變化可能更多地與其中一些投資或一次性事物的時機有關。

But we overall expect the CapEx in our coal mining business, which is really only focused at the Red Hills mine MLMC because of the structure of the other contracts where the customer pays the CapEx. We really think that CapEx is going to drop off significantly over the next several years compared to what it's been.

但我們總體預期煤炭開採業務的資本支出實際上只集中在 Red Hills 礦場 MLMC，因為其他合約的結構是客戶支付資本支出。我們確實認為，與過去相比，未來幾年資本支出將大幅下降。

Okay. And then I had asked you earlier in the year whether you thought you would get an insurance recovery on the boiler outage. Do you have any more visibility on that?

好的。然後我在今年早些時候問過您是否認為鍋爐停駛可以獲得保險賠償。您對此有更多了解嗎？

I mean I'll give you a mixed answer here. Yes, we have more visibility to that, but we have a team of people that are continuing to work on that. I'm not -- the other part of the answer is I'm not prepared to make any kind of statement about what that might be. I just think it's -- I think it would be very premature for me to throw out a number.

我的意思是我會在這裡給你一個混合的答案。是的，我們對此有更多的了解，但我們有一個團隊正在繼續致力於此。我不是——答案的另一部分是我不准備就這可能是什麼做出任何聲明。我只是認為——我認為現在給出一個數字還為時過早。

Got it. On free cash flow, it looks -- so far this year, working capital has been a drag on free cash. Is that -- does that reverse later in the year so that you generate cash on the operating line? Or I didn't catch -- there was a comment made at the end of the presented remarks that I think said something to that effect.

知道了。就自由現金流而言，今年到目前為止，營運資本一直拖累自由現金。今年稍後情況是否會發生逆轉，以便您在營運線上產生現金？或者我沒有聽清楚——在所發表的評論末尾有一條評論，我認為說了一些類似的話。

Liz or Christie, have you got?

莉茲或克里斯蒂，你有嗎？

We did include in our disclosure that we expect to have a use of cash in 2024.

我們確實在披露中表示，我們預計將在 2024 年使用現金。

The operating cash flow line or --

經營現金流量線或--

We just said cash flow before financing, which is -- that's our operating cash minus CapEx.

我們剛剛說了融資前的現金流，也就是我們的營運現金減去資本支出。

Right. Okay.

正確的。好的。

Working capital for us, if you think about our businesses, we are not like a typical manufacturing company that's constantly looking at days outstanding, whether it's receivables or payables or inventory levels. We don't -- we're not really manufacturing anything. Inventory will go up and come down.

對我們來說，如果你考慮我們的業務，我們的營運資金並不像一家典型的製造公司那樣，不斷關注未償付天數，無論是應收帳款、應付帳款還是庫存水準。我們沒有——我們並沒有真正製造任何東西。庫存會上升和下降。

So I'll give you a very specific example of that. If we're getting -- and I'm not saying we're doing that right now. This is just an example. But if we're getting ready to do a significant capital project on a dragline somewhere, in anticipation of that, we will probably bring in more -- we'll probably bring in more parts because we need them ready when we take a dragline day out in order to go tackle that project.

所以我會給你一個很具體的例子。如果我們得到——我並不是說我們現在就這樣做。這只是一個例子。但是，如果我們準備在某個地方的拉鏟上進行一個重要的資本項目，那麼我們可能會帶來更多的零件，因為我們需要在拉鬥鏟日時準備好它們出去以解決該項目。

And then those parts will be put into the dragline and it'll flow through working capital that affects your -- it goes through all the normal cycle. Similarly, we built inventory at mitigation resources in North America as we create mitigation credits.

然後這些零件將被放入拉鬥鏟中，它將流經影響您的營運資金——它將經歷所有正常的週期。同樣，我們在創建緩解信用額時建立了北美緩解資源的庫存。

But working capital for us very much kind of normalizes over time. It's not a thing like you would see in a manufacturing business where we're dealing with supply chain issues and other things that will affect that from quarter to quarter.

但隨著時間的推移，我們的營運資金在很大程度上會趨於正常化。這與您在製造業務中看到的情況不同，我們正在處理供應鏈問題以及其他會逐季度影響供應鏈的問題。

Right. That makes sense. Okay. So last question, kind of a broad one. But if you look at your three disclosed business lines as well as the mitigation work you're doing, do you -- would you say that you feel one segment is offering you higher ROIs at this point and that there's some desire to invest more money into one of the segments versus others?

正確的。這是有道理的。好的。最後一個問題是一個廣泛的問題。但是，如果你看看你所揭露的三個業務線以及你正在做的緩解工作，你是否會說你覺得其中一個細分市場目前為你提供了更高的投資回報率，並且有一些投資更多資金的願望進入其中一個細分市場而不是其他細分市場？

I mean I would tell you that if you think about our -- and I'm going to go inside a segment. If you went inside our management fee, unconsolidated coal mining operations, those things have -- we have very, very, very little capital invested in those, and they generate very substantial returns, right? Super high return on total capital in a traditional sense.

我的意思是，我會告訴你，如果你考慮我們的——我將進入一個細分市場。如果你深入了解我們的管理費、未合併的煤炭開採業務，這些事情——我們在這些方面的投資非常非常非常少，但它們卻產生了非常可觀的回報，對吧？傳統意義上超高的總資本報酬率。

There's really not an opportunity to invest in growing that. We have the contracts we have in the coal mining segment. And I'd sure love it if somebody would call us up and say, hey, I want to build a new coal-fired power plant. Will you guys do a management fee contract with us? But I don't see that happening in the short term. So that's probably our highest return on total capital.

確實沒有機會投資成長它。我們擁有煤炭開採領域的合約。如果有人打電話給我們說，嘿，我想建造一座新的燃煤發電廠，我肯定會很高興。你們願意和我們簽訂管理費合約嗎？但我認為短期內不會發生這種情況。所以這可能是我們最高的總資本報酬率。

I'd say our second highest return on total capital is the returns that we earn off of our legacy natural gas assets in Appalachia, Southern Ohio, because we bought those decades and decades and decades ago. I would guess all of those were bought more than 40 years ago. And so we have just extremely low cost basis. We've owned them for a long time.

我想說，我們的第二高總資本回報率是我們從俄亥俄州南部阿巴拉契亞地區的遺留天然氣資產中獲得的回報，因為我們在幾十年前購買了這些資產。我猜這些都是 40 多年前買的。所以我們的成本基礎非常低。我們已經擁有它們很長時間了。

You end up with horizontal fracking and pipelines coming into the area. I mean, that piece inside minerals management generates tremendous returns. But our investment -- our investments that we're making are actually blending down the return on total capital in that business, but we think that's fine. Want to continue to invest and grow.

最終，水平壓裂和管道進入該區域。我的意思是，礦產管理內部的這一部分會產生巨大的回報。但我們的投資——我們正在進行的投資實際上降低了該業務的總資本回報率，但我們認為這很好。想要繼續投資成長。

So your question is really one of capital allocation, I think. Is it we want to direct money more to one segment than the other? I would say that we're very pleased with the portfolio of businesses that we have. I'd also tell you that we're continuing to have an entrepreneurial bent. We're creating new businesses right now that I think are going to -- we'll be talking more about those in the years ahead.

所以我認為你的問題其實是資本配置問題。我們是否希望將更多資金投入某一細分市場而不是另一個細分市場？我想說，我們對我們擁有的業務組合非常滿意。我還想告訴你，我們將繼續保持創業傾向。我們現在正在創建新業務，我認為我們將在未來幾年更多地討論這些業務。

And we feel good about investing in all of them. I think our overall objective here is to create a portfolio of businesses that are all generating good returns and don't have us with any kind of significant risk in any one area.

我們對投資所有這些都感到滿意。我認為我們的總體目標是創建一個業務組合，這些業務都能夠產生良好的回報，並且在任何一個領域都不存在任何重大風險。

If you think back a bunch -- 10 years ago, we were essentially tied to coal mining for power generation, and there's a lot of risk in that. Political risk, really. So having a diversified portfolio of businesses, and we think all of them deliver good returns on total capital, to me feels like the right thing to do for the business overall.

如果你回想一下——十年前，我們基本上依賴煤炭開採來發電，這其中存在很大的風險。確實有政治風險。因此，擁有多元化的業務組合，而且我們認為所有這些業務都能帶來良好的總資本回報，對我來說，這對整個業務來說是正確的做法。

That's also going to give us I believe over time very substantial cash flows going forward that allow us to grow this business. Because we've got so many avenues for growth now, including ones in development, I think it's going to give us lots of avenues for growth that will make this a substantially more diversified and bigger company in the future.

我相信，隨著時間的推移，這也將為我們帶來非常可觀的現金流，使我們能夠發展這項業務。因為我們現在有很多成長途徑，包括正在開發的成長途徑，我認為這將為我們提供許多成長途徑，使我們在未來成為一家更加多元化、規模更大的公司。

So is that causing us to pick and choose, like, gee, we want to put money into the favorite business and maybe not in the other ones? I think right now, we feel like all these businesses have great potential, and we're going to continue to invest in them.

那麼，這是否導致我們做出選擇，例如，天啊，我們想把錢投入最喜歡的產業，而不是其他產業？我認為現在，我們覺得所有這些業務都有巨大的潛力，我們將繼續對它們進行投資。

Of course, only doing so when we find projects that meet our criteria for it's a good fit with the business. The customer is a good cultural fit. It's an opportunity where we believe we can be successful and the contract terms are attractive to us.

當然，只有當我們找到符合我們標準的項目並且非常適合業務時才會這樣做。客戶具有良好的文化契合度。這是一個我們相信能夠取得成功的機會，而且合約條款對我們很有吸引力。

Right. That makes sense. All right. Well, that's all I got. I appreciate the time and talk to you next quarter.

正確的。這是有道理的。好的。嗯，這就是我所得到的。我很感謝您能抽出時間並在下個季度與您交談。

I appreciate your questions. I'm glad it makes sense to you because we think it makes sense to us. So we appreciate your questions and your feedback.

我很感激你的問題。我很高興這對您有意義，因為我們認為這對我們有意義。因此，我們感謝您的提問和回饋。

(Operator Instructions) And there are no further questions at this time. I will turn the call back over to Christina for closing remarks.

（操作員說明） 目前沒有其他問題。我會將電話轉回給克里斯蒂娜，讓其致閉幕詞。

Okay. With that, we will conclude our Q&A session. I would like to provide a few reminders before we end the call. A replay of our call will be available later this morning. We'll also post a transcript on the website when it becomes available. If you have any questions, please reach out to me. You can reach me at the phone number on the press release.

好的。至此，我們的問答環節就結束了。在我們結束通話之前，我想提供一些提醒。今天上午晚些時候我們將重播我們的電話會議。當文字記錄可用時，我們也會在網站上發布文字記錄。如果您有任何疑問，請與我聯絡。您可以透過新聞稿中的電話號碼與我聯絡。

I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, and I'll turn it back to Julie to conclude the call. Thank you.

我希望您今天剩下的時間過得愉快，我會將其轉交給朱莉來結束通話。謝謝。

Thank you. A replay of this call will be available until Thursday, August 8, 2024, at 11:59 PM by dialing 888-660-6345 with the playback passcode 45083, followed by the pound key. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect. Thank you.

謝謝。本次通話的重播截止時間為 2024 年 8 月 8 日星期四晚上 11:59，撥打 888-660-6345，輸入重播密碼 45083，然後按井號鍵。謝謝。女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。謝謝。