NACCO Industries Inc (NC) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Nacco industry first quarter 2024 earnings conference call with our host for today, Ms. Christina Kmetko, Investor Relations. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session. I would now like to turn the call over to your host, Christina Kmetko. You may begin.

歡迎參加今天的 Nacco 行業 2024 年第一季收益電話會議，主持人是投資者關係部門的 Christina Kmetko 女士。此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。隨後，我們將進行問答環節。現在我想將電話轉給主持人克里斯蒂娜·克梅特科 (Christina Kmetko)。你可以開始了。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our first quarter 2024 earnings call. Thank you for joining us this morning. I'm Christina Kmetko, and I'm responsible for Investor Relations at Nanoco. Joining me today are J.C. Butler, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Elizabeth Loveman, Senior Vice President and Controller.

大家早安，歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第一季財報電話會議。感謝您今天早上加入我們。我是 Christina Kmetko，負責 Nanoco 的投資者關係。今天與我一起出席的有總裁兼執行長 J.C. Butler 和高級副總裁兼財務總監 Elizabeth Loveman。

Yesterday, we published our 2024 first quarter results and filed our 10-Q. This information is available on our website. Today's call is also being webcast, and the webcast will be on our website later this afternoon and available for approximately 12 months. Our remarks that follow, including answers to your questions contain forward looking statements. These statements are subject to several risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements. Made here today. These risks include, among others, matters that we've described in our earnings release, 10-Q and other SEC filings. We may not update these forward-looking statements until our next quarterly earnings conference call. We'll also be will also be discussing non-GAAP information that we believe is useful in evaluating the company's operating performance. Reconciliations for these non-GAAP measures can be found in our earnings release and on our website.

昨天，我們發布了 2024 年第一季業績並提交了 10 季業績報告。此資訊可在我們的網站上找到。今天的電話會議也將進行網路直播，網路直播將於今天下午晚些時候在我們的網站上發布，持續約 12 個月。我們接下來的評論（包括對您的問題的回答）包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述受到多種風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。今天在這裡製作。這些風險包括我們在收益報告、10-Q 和其他 SEC 文件中所述的事項等。在下一次季度收益電話會議之前，我們可能不會更新這些前瞻性聲明。我們也將討論我們認為有助於評估公司經營績效的非公認會計準則資訊。這些非公認會計原則措施的調節可以在我們的收益發布和我們的網站上找到。

With the formalities out of the way, I'll turn the call over to J.C. for some opening remarks. J.C.

手續辦完後，我會將電話轉給 J.C. 進行開場白。J.C.

Thank you, Christine, and good morning, everyone. I'm glad to be on the call this morning since we have a lot of good news to report, I mentioned during our year end call that I am optimistic about our 2024 outlook. As we move past a tough 2023, we expected unfavorable 2023 comparisons would turn favorable in 2024. So I'm pleased to report that our first quarter operating results were in line with those expectations.

謝謝克里斯汀，大家早安。我很高興今天早上參加電話會議，因為我們有很多好消息要報告，我在年終電話會議上提到，我對 2024 年的前景感到樂觀。隨著我們度過艱難的 2023 年，我們預計 2023 年的不利情況將在 2024 年變得有利。因此，我很高興地報告，我們第一季的營運表現符合這些預期。

Our consolidated operating profit increased 162% over the prior year, driven by significantly improved earnings at our minerals management North American Mining segments. Christine will go into more detail about our first quarter earnings and provide and provide an overview of our outlook in a minute, but first, let me give you an update on our operations. I'll start with some positive operational news about our Coal Mining segment. I'm pleased to report the repairs to the damaged boiler at the Red Hills power plant are expected to be completed during the second half of 2024. As you can see from our financials, the coal mining segment's revenues decreased primarily due to fewer coal deliveries as a result of this issue. While the Red Hills power plant is still only operating on one boiler, it is helpful to have greater visibility on our customers' time line for resolution. And as we've discussed for several quarters, Mississippi Lignite Mining Company's Red Hills mine, completed the move to a new mine area in 2023. This move sets us up nicely for the future, and we expect production costs at MLMC. to decline significantly in 2024, 2023 levels. These costs, however, are expected to remain above historical levels through 2024 until the boiler issue at the power plant is resolved, deliveries return to normal and a pit extension is completed later this year.

由於我們的礦產管理北美礦業部門的收益顯著提高，我們的綜合營業利潤比上年增長了 162%。克里斯汀將更詳細地介紹我們第一季的收益，並在一分鐘內提供我們的前景概述，但首先，讓我向您介紹我們營運的最新情況。我將從有關我們煤炭開採部門的一些積極的營運新聞開始。我很高興地向您報告，紅山發電廠受損鍋爐的修復預計將於 2024 年下半年完成。從我們的財務數據可以看出，煤炭開採部門的收入下降主要是由於該問題導致煤炭交付量減少。雖然紅山發電廠仍僅使用一台鍋爐運行，但更了解客戶解決問題的時間線會很有幫助。正如我們幾個季度討論的那樣，密西西比褐煤礦業公司的紅山礦已於 2023 年完成了向新礦區的搬遷。這項措施為我們的未來奠定了良好的基礎，我們預計 MLMC 的生產成本將會降低。到2024年、2023年水準將大幅下降。然而，到 2024 年，這些成本預計將保持在歷史水平之上，直到今年稍後發電廠鍋爐問題得到解決、交付恢復正常以及礦坑擴建完成。

Before I move to our other segments, I want to comment on the Environmental Protection Agency's recent announcement of new rules for coal-fired power plants on April 25, the EPA issued a pre-publication version of the final rules for Mercury Air Toxics Standards and greenhouse gas emissions, which require compliance as early as 2027 and 2030. These rules are ultimately in force as drafted that we will be applicable to the power plants that we serve. While we are still in the process of analyzing these new rules. I'd like to note that similar previous efforts by the EPA were met with extensive litigation, and we're anticipating a similar response to these rules. As you can imagine, this is a very high priority for us source, noting that the United States is experiencing strong overall growth in the demand for electricity from MLMC. supplies coal to the Red Hills power plant, which supplies electricity to TVA CBA just announced in their 10-Q filing earlier this week that they experienced an all-time record high peak power demand during Q1 these EPA rules go into effect as written. It's hard to see how the country adequately replaces the energy generated by these power plants.

在我開始討論其他部分之前，我想先評論一下環保署最近於 4 月 25 日宣布的關於燃煤發電廠的新規則，美國環保署發布了汞空氣毒性標準最終規則的預出版版本和溫室氣體排放，要求最早在2027 年和2030 年實現合規。這些規則最終按照起草的方式生效，並將適用於我們所服務的發電廠。雖然我們仍在分析這些新規則。我想指出的是，美國環保署先前的類似努力遭到了廣泛的訴訟，我們預計這些規則也會得到類似的回應。正如您可以想像的那樣，這對美國消息人士來說是一個非常重要的優先事項，因為美國對 MLMC 的電力需求正在經歷強勁的整體成長。 CBA 剛剛在本週稍早的 10 季文件中宣布，他們在第一季經歷了歷史最高峰值電力需求，這些 EPA 規則按書面規定生效。很難看出該國如何充分取代這些發電廠所產生的能源。

Shifting your other segments, I mentioned earlier that our minerals management and North American Mining segments generated improved operating results in the first quarter. At Minerals Management, the higher first quarter income was the result of higher production volumes and included earnings from the large acquisition of mineral interest that closed in December. The Catapult mineral partners team, which oversees this segment, has done a great job of growing and diversifying our mineral our portfolio of mineral interests over the last few years, we now are a larger portfolio of mineral mineral interests. We are more diversified in terms of operations, geographic footprint and stages of mineral development ranging from producing wells to undeveloped mineral interest. Catapult team is again targeting mineral interests of up to $20 million in 2024. Our North American Mining segment also delivered strong year-over-year earnings improvement. North American Mining's operating profit improved 184%, and segment adjusted EBITDA increased 70% compared with 2023. I'm proud of the significant progress North American mining team has made on operational and strategic projects that contributed to the improved 2024 first quarter results. Our sawtooth mining operation is the exclusive miner for the packer past lithium project owned by Lithium Americas Corporation. Situ mining is contributing moderate income to North American Mining segment during the current construction phase of that contract and is expected to continue to do so until we enter the production phase, which is expected to occur in the 2027, 2028 time frame. More information about this project is available on the Lithium Americas Wits website.

轉移其他部門，我之前提到我們的礦產管理和北美礦業部門在第一季產生了改善的經營業績。在 Minerals Management，第一季營收增加是產量增加的結果，其中包括 12 月完成的大規模礦產權益收購的收入。負責監督這一領域的 Catapult 礦產合作夥伴團隊在過去幾年中在發展和多樣化我們的礦產權益方面做得非常出色，我們現在擁有更大的礦產權益組合。我們在業務、地理足跡和礦產開發階段（從生產井到未開發礦產權益）方面更加多元化。Catapult 團隊再次瞄準 2024 年礦產權益高達 2,000 萬美元。我們的北美礦業部門也實現了同比強勁的獲利成長。與 2023 年相比，北美礦業的營業利潤成長了 184%，部門調整後 EBITDA 成長了 70%。我對北美礦業團隊在營運和策略專案上的重大進展感到自豪，這些進展為 2024 年第一季業績的改善做出了貢獻。我們的鋸齒採礦作業是 Lithium Americas Corporation 擁有的 Packer Past 鋰專案的獨家採礦商。在該合約的當前建設階段，原地採礦為北美礦業部門貢獻了適度的收入，並且預計將繼續這樣做，直到我們進入生產階段，預計將在 2027 年和 2028 年的時間範圍內進行。有關該項目的更多信息，請訪問 Lithium Americas Wits 網站。

North American mining team continues to evaluate and pursue new business opportunities, including diversification into additional minerals as we did in 2023 with a new contract to mine phosphate for a customer in Florida. Overall, I believe we're making meaningful progress towards building this big this segment into a very successful business platform.

北美採礦團隊繼續評估和尋求新的商機，包括多元化發展其他礦物，就像我們在 2023 年為佛羅裡達州客戶簽訂一份開採磷酸鹽的新合約所做的那樣。總的來說，我相信我們正在取得有意義的進展，將這個龐大的細分市場打造成一個非常成功的商業平台。

Finally, moving to our mitigation resources of North America business. This team continues to advance existing mitigation projects and build on the substantial foundation that it has established over the past several years. Mitigation Resources added a new project in the first quarter by acquiring an attractive piece of land near a high growth area in Central Florida. We anticipate that Mitigation Resources will further expand its business model in 2024 with a focus on generating a modest operating profit in 2025 and achieving sustainable profitability in future years.

最後，轉向我們北美業務的緩解資源。該團隊繼續推動現有的緩解項目，並在過去幾年建立的堅實基礎上繼續發展。Mitigation Resources 在第一季增加了一個新項目，收購了佛羅裡達州中部高成長地區附近一塊有吸引力的土地。我們預計 Mitigation Resources 將在 2024 年進一步擴展其業務模式，重點是在 2025 年產生適度的營業利潤，並在未來幾年實現可持續盈利。

Overall, I continue to be very optimistic about our outlook in 2024 and beyond. Have a lot of confidence in our team. And I'm pleased with the way all of these businesses continue to advance their strategies, including efforts to protect our core mining business.

總體而言，我對 2024 年及以後的前景仍然非常樂觀。對我們的團隊充滿信心。我對所有這些企業繼續推進其策略的方式感到滿意，包括努力保護我們的核心採礦業務。

With that, I'll turn the call back over to Christine to cover our results for the quarter and our outlook in more detail. Christine?

接下來，我將把電話轉回克里斯汀，以更詳細地介紹我們本季的業績和我們的前景。克里斯汀？

Thank you, J.C. Let me begin with high-level comments about our consolidated first quarter financial results. Then I'll provide some detail on our individual segments. We reported consolidated income before taxes of $5.6 million compared with $4.4 million last year, a 28% increase. A shift in our mix of earnings led to an effective income tax rate of 18% this quarter versus a negative rate of 30% in first quarter 2023, which resulted in a $2.3 million year-over-year increase in income tax expense. It has a higher income tax expense. Our first quarter 2024 consolidated net income decreased to $4.6 million or $0.61 per share compared with $5.7 million or $0.76 per share. Last year, we generated EBITDA of $11.2 million. This was modestly higher than the prior year EBITDA of $10.8 million. The operating profit and EBITDA growth was primarily due to significant improvements in earnings at our minerals management and North American Mining segments. Minerals Management generated operating profit of $7.9 million and segment adjusted EBITDA of $8.9 million, an over 30% increase in both metrics compared with the prior year quarter. Improved earnings were due to higher production volumes, including contributions from a large acquisition of mineral interest near the end of last year and North American Mining operating profit of $2.4 million and EBITDA of $4.6 million increased significantly compared with last year. The first quarter improvements were primarily due to favorable pricing and delivery mix, improved margins at the limestone quarry as a result of recent contract amendments also contributed to North American Mining favorable results. Improvement in operating profit at both minerals management and North American Mining were partly offset by lower coal mining results.

謝謝 J.C. 首先讓我對我們第一季綜合財務業績發表高層評論。然後我將提供有關我們各個部分的一些詳細資訊。我們公佈的稅前綜合收入為 560 萬美元，與去年的 440 萬美元相比，成長了 28%。我們收入結構的轉變導致本季的有效所得稅率為 18%，而 2023 年第一季為 30%，導致所得稅費用年增 230 萬美元。它的所得稅費用較高。我們 2024 年第一季的合併淨利潤從 570 萬美元或每股 0.76 美元下降至 460 萬美元或每股 0.61 美元。去年，我們的 EBITDA 為 1,120 萬美元。這略高於上一年 1,080 萬美元的 EBITDA。營業利潤和 EBITDA 成長主要歸功於我們的礦產管理和北美礦業部門獲利的顯著改善。Minerals Management 的營業利潤為 790 萬美元，部門調整後 EBITDA 為 890 萬美元，這兩個指標均較去年同期成長了 30% 以上。獲利的改善得益於產量的增加，包括去年年底大規模收購礦產權益的貢獻，北美礦業的營業利潤為 240 萬美元，EBITDA 為 460 萬美元，較去年大幅成長。第一季的改善主要歸功於有利的定價和交付組合，以及最近合約修訂導致石灰石採石場利潤率的提高，也為北美礦業的良好業績做出了貢獻。礦產管理和北美礦業營運利潤的改善部分被煤炭開採業績下降所抵銷。

Our coal mining segment reported an operating loss of $417,000 and generated segment adjusted EBITDA of $1.8 million This compares to operating profit of $313,000 and segment adjusted EBITDA of $4.6 million in 2023. Jason noted that the coal mining segment's revenues decreased primarily due to the boiler issue at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company. However, the revenue decrease was offset by a reduction in cost of sales resulting in comparable quarter over quarter results. Lower earnings at our unconsolidated operations, primarily due to reduced customer requirements at Cato contributed to the decrease in the coal mining segment's results.

我們的煤炭開採部門報告營業虧損為 417,000 美元，部門調整後 EBITDA 為 180 萬美元，而 2023 年營業利潤為 313,000 美元，部門調整後 EBITDA 為 460 萬美元。傑森指出，煤炭開採部門的收入下降主要是由於密西西比州褐煤礦業公司的鍋爐問題。然而，收入的下降被銷售成本的下降所抵消，導致季度業績可比。我們未合併業務的收益下降，主要是由於卡托客戶需求的減少，導致煤炭開採部門的表現下降。

Looking forward at our Coal Mining segment, we expect strong 2024 operating profit compared with a significant 2023 loss, which included a $60.8 million impairment charge, higher segment adjusted EBITDA, which excludes the impairment charge is also projected. These anticipated increases are primarily due to an improvement in the results at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company and higher earnings for Kirk and curtail in the second half of 2024, while MRMC is expected to incur a loss in 2024 or largely attributable to reduced coal deliveries. While the power plant is operating with only one boiler. The losses projected to be significantly less than [2023], excluding the impairment charge, this is primarily because production costs are expected to decrease compared with last year. In addition, the effect of the impairment charge taken last year will result in lower depreciation and amortization expense and contribute to lower production costs in 2024 and beyond.

展望我們的煤炭開採部門，我們預計2024 年營業利潤將強勁，而2023 年將出現重大虧損，其中包括6,080 萬美元的減值費用，預計部門調整後的EBITDA（不包括減值費用）也會更高。這些預期成長主要是由於密西西比褐煤礦業公司業績的改善以及柯克收益的增加以及 2024 年下半年的減產，而 MRMC 預計將在 2024 年出現虧損，或主要歸因於煤炭交付量的減少。而發電廠只有一台鍋爐在運作。扣除減損費用後，預期虧損將顯著低於[2023]，主要是因為生產成本預計將比去年下降。此外，去年提取的減損費用將導致折舊和攤提費用降低，並有助於降低 2024 年及以後的生產成本。

The projected increase in full year 2024. Earnings at the unconsolidated mining operations is driven primarily by an expectation for increased customer requirements at Intel and Falcon as well as a higher per tonne management fee at Folkert beginning in June 2024 when temporary price concessions.

預計 2024 年全年增長。未合併採礦業務的利潤主要是由於英特爾和 Falcon 客戶需求增加的預期以及 Folkert 從 2024 年 6 月開始臨時價格優惠時每噸管理費上漲的預期推動的。

And turning to North American Mining, we expect substantial quarterly growth in operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA in each remaining 2024 quarter, leading to significantly improved full year results over 2023, improvements at existing operations as well as contributions from new and modified contracts will all contribute to the improvement in results.

至於北美礦業，我們預計2024 年剩餘每季的營業利潤和部門調整後EBITDA 將大幅成長，從而導致2023 年全年業績顯著改善，現有營運的改善以及新合約和修改合約的貢獻將全部有助於結果的改善。

Finally, at Minerals Management, we expect 2024 operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA to decrease moderately compared with prior year, excluding the 2023 impairment charge, the forecasted reduction in profitability is primarily driven by current market expectations for natural gas and oil prices, apartments and production assumptions on currently owned reserves. Overall, at a consolidated level, we expect to generate net income in 2024 compared with the substantial 2023 net loss adjusted EBITDA, which excludes any impact from the prior year. Impairment is also projected to increase significantly over 2023. These improvements are mainly due to increased profitability at commenting segment growth in North American Mining is also expected to contribute to the higher 2024 net income.

最後，在礦產管理公司，我們預計2024 年營業利潤和部門調整後EBITDA 將較上年適度下降，不包括2023 年減損費用，獲利能力的預測下降主要是由當前市場對天然氣和石油價格、公寓和房地產的預期推動的。整體而言，在合併水準上，我們預計 2024 年將產生淨利潤，而 2023 年的淨虧損調整後 EBITDA 相當可觀，其中不包括上一年的任何影響。預計 2023 年減損將大幅增加。這些改善主要是由於北美礦業部門的獲利能力提高，預計也將有助於提高 2024 年淨利。

For I turn the call over to questions.

因為我將電話轉為提問。

Let me close with some information about our balance sheet and cash flow. We ended the quarter with consolidated cash of approximately $62 million and debt of $50 million. We had availability of $100 million under our revolving credit facility during the first quarter, we repurchased approximately 128,000 shares for $4.3 million under an existing share repurchase program in 2024. We expect cash flow before financing activities to be a moderate use of cash.

讓我以有關我們的資產負債表和現金流的一些資訊作為結束語。本季結束時，我們的綜合現金約為 6,200 萬美元，債務為 5,000 萬美元。第一季度，我們的循環信貸安排下有 1 億美元的可用資金，我們根據 2024 年現有的股票回購計劃，以 430 萬美元的價格回購了約 128,000 股股票。我們預計融資活動前的現金流量將適度使用現金。

We will now turn to any questions you may have.

我們現在將回答您可能提出的任何問題。

If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Now you'll be placed into the keel in the order received. Please be prepared to ask your question when prompted once again, if you have a question please star one on your phone now. And we will take our first question from Douglas Weiss with DSW Investments. Douglas, your line is open,

如果您想提問，請按電話鍵盤上的星號一。現在您將按照收到的順序放入龍骨中。請準備好在再次出現提示時提出您的問題，如果您有疑問，請立即在您的手機上加註星標。我們將回答 DSW Investments 的 Douglas Weiss 提出的第一個問題。道格拉斯，你的線路已開通，

Hi, good morning.

早安.

Good morning.

早安.

My quesiton on the mining business. Once once you've started a project, what how much is the ongoing capital expense on those projects on an annual basis?

我關於採礦業的問題。一旦您啟動了一個項目，這些項目每年的持續資本支出是多少？

You're talking about a coal miner, you're talking about a North American mining project?

你在談論煤礦工人，你在談論北美採礦計畫？

North American mining.

北美採礦業。

Yes.

是的。

No, it entirely depends on the project.

不，這完全取決於項目。

In some instances, we own the equipment and we'll maintain that equipment over the life of the contract, and that's all included in the fee structure that we receive. In other instances, the customer is responsible for funding those things. So it's really very contract-specific.

在某些情況下，我們擁有設備，我們將在合約期間維護該設備，這一切都包含在我們收到的費用結構中。在其他情況下，客戶負責為這些事情提供資金。所以這確實是非常特定於合約的。

I guess I would add that on, you know, most of the of the operations that we do inside North American Mining just not just use an example, right? We might acquire a drag line that will operate at a quarry for a phosphate mine or somewhere else for somebody who and the upfront capital is the most significant piece typically of that project and overtime, you're going to have repairs to the drag line. You're going to have planned outages where you need to do periodic upgrades and improvements. But for the most part I think you could think of the North American mining project of having a majority of its CapEx upfront, although there will be some overtime.

我想我會補充一點，你知道，我們在北美礦業內部所做的大部分操作不僅僅是使用一個例子，對吧？我們可能會購買一條拉索，該拉索將在磷礦採石場或其他地方運行，而前期資本通常是該項目中最重要的部分，加班後，您將需要修理拉索。您將有計劃的停機，需要定期升級和改進。但在大多數情況下，我認為你可以認為北美採礦項目的大部分資本支出都是預付的，儘管會有一些加班。

Okay. So to the extent you're not bringing on new projects. Is it fair to say that fairly high proportion of the EBITDA in that division will convert to cash flow? Just sounds like the --

好的。因此，在某種程度上，您不會開展新專案。可以公平地說，該部門相當高比例的 EBITDA 將轉化為現金流嗎？聽起來就像--

Yes, I think that's a safe assumption as opposed to I mean, I'll compare that to our manufacturing business where you're constantly replacing things on your on your manufacturing line. And this is this is that the mining business is typically not like that, but you will go through as we saw at our Red Hills mine, you go through periods of time when you do have to reinvest, but it stock generally EBITDA is through EBITDA. You can think of it as cash flow.

是的，我認為這是一個安全的假設，而不是我的意思，我會將其與我們的製造業務進行比較，在我們的製造業務中，你不斷地更換生產線上的東西。這就是採礦業通常不是這樣的，但你會經歷我們在紅山礦場看到的那樣，你會經歷必須再投資的時期，但它的股票通常 EBITDA 是透過 EBITDA 。您可以將其視為現金流。

Okay. And would you be able to say what sort of returns you're looking on looking for on that sort of upfront investment in terms of you get a new project and you buy expensive $20 million or whatever on the draglines, what sort of EBITDA do you hope to earn on that in the years that follow?

好的。您能說出您希望透過這種前期投資獲得什麼樣的回報嗎？幾年靠這個賺錢嗎？

Well, I mean, I think given the fact that these are multiyear projects with investment upfront, I'd point you to like an IRR calculation. And I know we target things that are in the mid high 10s in general.

嗯，我的意思是，我認為考慮到這些是需要預先投資的多年項目，我會指出您喜歡 IRR 計算。我知道我們的目標總體上是 10 左右左右。

Okay, great. And when you guide to quarterly growth for that business, do you mean sequential growth like the second quarter will be better than the first quarter?

好的，太好了。當您指導該業務的季度成長時，您的意思是第二季的連續成長會比第一季更好嗎？

Generally, yes.

一般來說，是的。

yes. Okay.

是的。好的。

But like any business, you can't draw a straight line to all those points and have it looked like a nice neat graph.

但與任何企業一樣，您無法為所有這些點繪製一條直線並使其看起來像一個漂亮整潔的圖表。

Right. Sure, sure. I guess moving on to your from your royalty businesses, um, on the on the I you give you give disclosures in the K on your reserves, but I found with other royalty businesses, those reserves aren't really that communicative in terms of the real reserve life of those assets and I wondered if you could just speak generally about what you think the sort of economic life is, particularly for your gas assets on I guess Appalachia would be the largest one.

正確的。一定一定。我想從您的特許權使用費業務轉向您的業務，嗯，在我給您的資訊中披露了您的儲備金，但我發現與其他特許權使用費業務相比，這些儲備金在這些資產的實際儲備壽命，我想知道您是否可以籠統地談談您認為的經濟壽命是什麼，特別是對於您在阿巴拉契亞的天然氣資產，我想阿巴拉契亞將是最大的。

Yeah. The Appalachia assets nor our legacy assets. I mean, we've acquired those over decades decades. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those have been acquired in the early part of the 19 hundreds as we were establishing our underground coal mining business in that part of the country to where the company started. You know, from a gas standpoint, the wells were looking for. So let's just go through history, right?

是的。阿巴拉契亞資產也不是我們的遺產資產。我的意思是，我們已經獲得了這些數十年。如果其中一些是在 19 世紀初期收購的，我不會感到驚訝，因為我們當時正在該國公司成立的那個地區建立地下煤礦開採業務。你知道，從天然氣的角度來看，這些井正在尋找。那麼讓我們回顧一下歷史吧？

We acquired these. We acquired the natural gas reserves as part of acquiring ARM. All minerals historically in many instances, we mine the coal or somebody else ended up mining the coal, we sold the surface at some point. If we and if that was owned and we've owned these natural gas assets for a very, very long time. You get to have immunome sort of, I guess probably 10 years that most ago and fracking became kind of the prevalent horizontal fracking became kind of a prevalent way of producing the minerals in Appalachia. And then pipelines came in sort of in those to be in the 2017, 2018 timeframe, which is when we said this things about to get supersized. So we made a conscious decision to let's go hire people that are experts in this area and develop our Catapult minerals Partners business. And so they oversee those assets as those have been. I mean, a lot of that's been developed, but there's a lot of wells yet to be developed. If you look at the typical decline curve on a well, it varies. But on average, these things can last for decades, they have a large any kind of horizontal fracking well has large production upfront and it tails off pretty quickly, but then it can run for a very, very long time.

我們獲得了這些。作為收購 ARM 的一部分，我們收購了天然氣儲量。歷史上，在許多情況下，所有礦物都是我們開採煤炭，或者其他人最終開採了煤炭，我們在某個時候出售了地表。如果我們擁有這些天然氣資產，而我們已經擁有這些天然氣資產很長時間了。我想大概是在十年前，水力壓裂成為一種流行的水平水力壓裂成為阿巴拉契亞生產礦物的一種普遍方式。然後管道會在 2017 年、2018 年的時間範圍內出現，也就是我們所說的話將變得超大的時候。因此，我們做出了一個明智的決定：聘請該領域的專家並發展我們的 Catapult 礦物合作夥伴業務。因此，他們像以前一樣監督這些資產。我的意思是，其中許多已經開發，但還有很多油井尚未開發。如果你觀察一口井的典型遞減曲線，你會發現它是不同的。但平均而言，這些東西可以持續幾十年，它們有一個大型的任何類型的水平壓裂井，前期產量很大，而且很快就會減少，但隨後它可以運行非常非常長的時間。

And Karin for decades from the 19. I mean, I know there are royalty companies out there that focus on just buying the tails of wells from people. So you take the natural gas assets in Appalachia and you translate that to what we're buying elsewhere. And we're targeting a broad portfolio of mineral interests, meaning when we buy a package, it typically has got producing wells. It's got wells have been drilled but not completed. So they're not producing Scott wells that have been permitted, but nobody has taken any action on the permits and their undeveloped reserves.

和卡琳從19歲開始幾十年了。我的意思是，我知道有些特許權使用費公司專注於從人們那裡購買井尾。因此，您將阿巴拉契亞的天然氣資產轉化為我們在其他地方購買的資產。我們的目標是廣泛的礦產權益組合，這意味著當我們購買一攬子計劃時，它通常已經擁有生產井。它的井已經鑽探但尚未完成。因此，他們沒有生產已獲許可的斯科特井，但沒有人對許可及其未開發儲量採取任何行動。

So one of the things I love about this business is a majority of the value we're paying for these assets is focused on the producing wells because that's what lot of people are paying for. A lot of people are interested in what's the cash flows. I'm going to get out of this ride right away. And we, of course, look at that. We appreciate that. But we're also acquiring a lot of reserve interests that are going to start be developed and produce in years to come. So I see this business is now accumulating more and more and more of that, which just provides a much stronger and longer runway for profitability to come out of this part of the business. It's kind of a wide-ranging answer. Does that answer your does that address your question?

因此，我喜歡這項業務的原因之一是，我們為這些資產支付的大部分價值都集中在生產井上，因為這是許多人支付的費用。很多人對現金流感興趣。我要立即離開這趟旅程。我們當然會關注這一點。我們對此表示讚賞。但我們也獲得了許多儲備權益，這些權益將在未來幾年開始開發和生產。因此，我看到這項業務現在正在累積越來越多的資金，這為這部分業務的盈利能力提供了更強大、更長的跑道。這是一個範圍廣泛的答案。這能回答你的問題嗎？

Yes, I think so if you look at opportunities to acquire, are you seeing better value on the oil side or on the gas side?

是的，我認為如果您尋找收購機會，您會發現石油方面或天然氣的價值更高嗎？

You know, it varies. It really in many instances, it gets to specific dynamics around the transaction like really why is somebody selling? Somebody had a fund for the last 20 years and they're closing out the fund and they need to sell, has somebody been getting their funding from a private equity firm and that goes away. And so they need to raise some capital by selling some wells. I mean what what's their motivation?

你知道，情況各不相同。實際上在很多情況下，它涉及交易的具體動態，例如為什麼有人出售？有人在過去 20 年裡擁有一支基金，但他們正在關閉該基金，他們需要出售，是否有人從私募股權公司獲得資金，然後這種情況就消失了。因此他們需要透過出售一些油井來籌集一些資金。我的意思是他們的動機是什麼？

That's really probably the greatest driver of swings in value from my experience in, okay, move anymore, do prices effect the value of mineral interests. They do on the margin, but it doesn't swing as much as you would think that might based on monthly quarterly changes in oil and gas prices.

根據我的經驗，這確實可能是價值波動的最大驅動因素，好吧，不再移動，價格會影響礦產權益的價值嗎？它們的幅度是有邊際的，但它的波動幅度並不像你想像的那麼大，這可能是基於石油和天然氣價格的月度季度變化。

Right. Okay. Makes sense. And on MLMC. once once you finish the year all done with the move in locations and so on, what is it what's a good normalized cost of goods sold there?

正確的。好的。說得通。還有MLMC。一旦你完成了一年的所有地點搬遷等工作，那麼那裡銷售的商品的正常標準化成本是多少？

We don't disclose that number. And your point about were moved and were done were moved were almost done. You'll note in our in our disclosures that we talk about a pit extension so we went over we established the new pit. We're operating over there. It's going very well. We're very pleased with the way that that's playing out. We did in part of the plan. We knew when we got there, we were going to make the initial pit longer switch. As you can imagine, right, a longer pit is going to be a more efficient way to mine. It's like any sacrifice, larger-scale, you make it to make it a bigger pit. So and we're still extending extending that pit this year with it will be done later this year, at which point the costs will really drop to where they think we should they should be, which is much more in line with historical levels. And we're getting it. You know, we're getting a double punch right now because we're self-inflicted wound. We it's the smart thing to do to extend the length of this pit, which adds to our costs. And the other thing you've got is the power plant that's just operating on one of the two boilers. So our production is only at about half what it would normally be, which puts, you know, that's not efficient material, makes it a higher cost operation. So I think we're headed back to historical levels that we feel quite good about. We just have to get a couple more quarters behind us.

我們不會透露這個數字。你的觀點已經被移動並且已經完成了，幾乎已經完成了。您會在我們的披露中註意到，我們談論了坑的擴展，因此我們回顧了我們建立的新坑。我們在那裡運營。進展順利。我們對事情的進展方式感到非常滿意。我們完成了計劃的一部分。我們知道，當我們到達那裡時，我們將把最初的維修站改得更長。正如你可以想像的那樣，較長的礦坑將是一種更有效的開採方式。就像任何犧牲一樣，規模越大，你所做的犧牲就會使它成為一個更大的坑。因此，我們今年仍在延長該坑的擴展，並將在今年稍後完成，屆時成本將真正下降到他們認為我們應該達到的水平，這更符合歷史水平。我們明白了。你知道，我們現在正遭受雙重打擊，因為我們是自傷。我們明智的做法是延長這個坑的長度，但這會增加我們的成本。另一件事情是發電廠僅在兩個鍋爐中的一個上運行。因此，我們的產量僅為正常情況的一半左右，這不是高效材料，因此營運成本更高。所以我認為我們正在回到我們感覺良好的歷史水平。我們只需要再落後幾季就可以了。

Right. Okay. And then just touching on North American Mining again, you had a really nice step-up in your your EBITDA margin this quarter. Is that sustainable? Are those going to are those margins going to move around from quarter to quarter?

正確的。好的。然後再次談到北美礦業，本季您的 EBITDA 利潤率有了非常好的提升。這是可持續的嗎？這些利潤率會隨著季度的變化而變化嗎？

Well, everybody's margins move around quarter to quarter. So but with that qualifier. I think there have been some fundamental shifts in the business, some of which are strategic in nature, tactical in nature. We've been working on some things over the last few years. And you've you've seen in prior quarters, we've disclosed that even last year. You know, we've put a pause on and new business development, while we're straightening out some operational matters we feel good about where those are. One of the other things we've done is sign up some new contracts. We're always we're always tweaking our contract structure because these contracts will run for one year. So we're always tweaking the contract structure to think about how do we best serve our customers while thinking about our own the economics of our business and John, you know, I think you've got a combination of some new contracts, some amended contracts as well as some operational and strategic improvements we put in place that are that are paying dividends. And I think that we are headed towards a stronger performance in that business going forward because of those things, is it going to be consistent every single quarter, probably not, but I feel good about where we're headed.

好吧，每季每季每家公司的利潤率都會改變。但是有了這個限定符。我認為業務發生了一些根本性的轉變，其中一些是戰略性的、戰術性的。過去幾年我們一直在做一些事情。你已經在前幾個季度看到了，我們甚至在去年就已經披露了這一點。你知道，我們已經暫停了新業務的開發，同時我們正在理順一些我們對這些問題感覺良好的營運問題。我們所做的其他事情之一是簽署一些新合約。我們一直在調整我們的合約結構，因為這些合約將持續一年。因此，我們總是在調整合約結構，思考如何最好地為客戶服務，同時考慮我們自己的業務經濟效益，約翰，你知道，我認為你已經有了一些新合約的組合，其中一些經過修改合約以及我們實施的一些營運和策略改進正在帶來紅利。我認為，由於這些因素，我們將在該業務中取得更強勁的業績，每個季度都會保持一致，可能不會，但我對我們的發展方向感到滿意。

Okay. Makes sense. And just when you have an unconsolidated income line in that division, is that can you say what that is which assets or what mine that is?

好的。說得通。當你在該部門有一個未合併的收入線時，你能說出那是什麼資產或那是什麼我的嗎？

It's just some smaller historical mines that are locations that we account for as a variable interest entity and so on under the equity method.

這只是一些較小的歷史礦山，我們在權益法下將其視為可變利益實體等。

Okay. And then let me know if there's anyone in queue because I don't want to ask them. I don't want to stop anyone else from asking questions.

好的。然後讓我知道是否有人在排隊，因為我不想問他們。我不想阻止其他人提問。

You have great questions. We're more than happy to ask. I appreciate your interest. We're happy to answer your questions.

你有很好的問題。我們非常樂意詢問。我很感激你的興趣。我們很高興回答您的問題。

Okay, great. Thank you. So on the coal segment, I'm curious using the Sabine, the Sabine mine as sort of a case study on where you guys where you receive several years after several years of payments after the mine closed. Could you just talk a little bit about how good. The economics are of those sort of some closure payments relative to the prior operating earnings of the mines?

好的，太好了。謝謝。因此，在煤炭領域，我很好奇使用薩賓礦場作為案例研究，了解你們在礦場關閉後幾年後收到的款項。能簡單談談有多好嗎？與礦山之前的營業收入相關的一些關閉付款的經濟學原理是什麼？

So I'll speak generally, right generally during production in our management fee contracts, which in the Coal Mining segment, our controlled fall KIRK, Coyote Creek and Sabine. So generally during production, that's when you're doing a lot of work. You've got a lot of people a lot going on. So the fee is higher in the in the initial years, the first few years after you go into final mine reclamation, you there's still a lot of work to be done and there's a lot of dirt moving going on. There's a lot of regulatory things that we're dealing with. A lot of land issues are like I shouldn't call them issues. It's really just land matters related to ramping up the mine. And so the fee is still pretty robust, although generally not what it was during production and then after a few years, we'll go into a period that is the tail end of final mine reclamation, which is really more the dirt work is done. It's monitoring water. It's looking for erosion, it's making sure that the things that were planned are growing as they should. So the fee steps down generally in the later years of a contract now every contract is different with respect to how that works and what we're responsible for and what the customer is responsible for. But in each instance, the customer still continues to pay 100% of the costs. And this is really just related to the fee that we receive. But that's a kind of a step down in structure as the amount of work that's required decreases.

所以我會籠統地說，一般來說，在我們的管理費合約的生產過程中，在煤礦開採領域，我們控制了 KIRK、Coyote Creek 和 Sabine。所以一般來說在製作過程中，你會做很多工作。你身邊有很多人正在發生很多事。因此，最初幾年的費用較高，進入最終礦山復墾後的最初幾年，仍然有很多工作要做，並且有很多泥土正在移動。我們正在處理很多監管問題。很多土地問題就像我不應該稱之為問題一樣。這實際上只是與擴大礦山規模有關的土地問題。因此，費用仍然相當可觀，儘管通常不是生產期間的費用，然後幾年後，我們將進入最終礦山復墾的尾聲時期，這實際上是更多的污垢工作完成。它正在監測水。它正在尋找侵蝕，它正在確保計劃的事情正在按其應有的方式增長。因此，費用通常會在合約的後期逐漸降低，現在每份合約在運作方式、我們負責的內容以及客戶負責的內容方面都是不同的。但在每種情況下，客戶仍繼續支付 100% 的費用。這實際上與我們收到的費用有關。但這是一種結構上的降級，因為所需的工作量減少了。

Okay. And then I guess just a couple quickly on your new projects. So on the remediation business, how big a business do you think that could be looking out three to five years?

好的。然後我想你的新項目很快就會有一些。那麼，在修復業務方面，您認為未來三到五年的業務規模有多大？

Well, I mean, we've not said how big we think it can be. We haven't disclosed that. But I will tell you that the business which we started. We're now five, six years ago, um, is on a much faster growth trajectory than we anticipated when we started it. And we've been very pleased with our ability to leverage sort of the North American Coal environmental reputation as a way to propel that business into, you know, having a lot of credibility, even though it was essentially a startup number of the people that are in that business came from our coal mining operations, and it's really been helpful as we've got going. We've also got a great relationship with the Army Corps of Engineers in the areas where we operate, which has been helpful to us.

嗯，我的意思是，我們還沒有說我們認為它可以有多大。我們還沒有透露這一點。但我會告訴你我們開始的業務。我們現在是五、六年前，嗯，成長軌跡比我們開始時預期的要快得多。我們對能夠利用北美煤炭環境聲譽來推動該業務擁有很高的可信度感到非常滿意，儘管它本質上只是初創公司的一部分。很有幫助。我們也與我們所在地區的陸軍工程兵團建立了良好的關係，這對我們很有幫助。

So I guess I'd add to the fact that the mitigation part of the business is growing faster than we thought it would. We've branched out now to also start doing abandoned mine land reclamation. You saw that in our disclosures that we are the preferred provider of abandoned mine land services in the state of Texas, which is a big deal. And we've been doing some other remediation projects as well that are neither mitigation banks nor abandoned mine land reclamation. So we're seeing growth opportunities in a number of areas kind of organically grown some and it's on a great growth trajectory. The question we always kick around is at what point, does this thing become a segment and I don't know. You know, it's I would say hopefully sooner or later. I think the people in the business would say I hope later rather than sooner because it's we get a lot more attention when your segment numbers. But it said this is a business that's growing very nicely very rapidly. And you know, the disclosure we put out as we think they're going to be profitable at an operating profit level in 2025 and will be sustainable future years. One of the reasons is because particularly on the mitigation banking side, you acquire a piece of property and then it takes a year or so to get your mitigation BANKING instrument with the Army Corps of Engineers and then you sell the credits over a extended period of time can be 10 years. So the initial years of this business on the mitigation banking side was planting a lot of seeds by initiating projects. We're now getting into the period. We're going to start seeing we know very attractive income from the credit sales out of those banks. So not a direct answer to your question, but I hope that was helpful?

因此，我想我要補充一個事實，即業務的緩解部分的成長速度比我們想像的要快。我們現在也開始進行廢棄礦山土地復墾工作。您在我們的披露中看到，我們是德克薩斯州廢棄礦山土地服務的首選提供者，這是一件大事。我們也一直在做一些其他修復項目，這些項目既不是緩解銀行，也不是廢棄礦山土地復墾。因此，我們在許多領域看到了成長機會，其中一些領域是有機成長的，並且正處於良好的成長軌道。我們常提出的問題是，這個東西在什麼時候會變成一個片段，我不知道。你知道，我希望遲早會這樣說。我想業內人士會說我希望晚一點而不是早一點，因為當你的細分市場數字增加時，我們會得到更多的關注。但它表示，這是一項成長非常迅速的業務。你知道，我們披露這項資訊是因為我們認為他們將在 2025 年以營業利潤水平實現盈利，並且在未來幾年將可持續。原因之一是因為特別是在緩解銀行方面，您購買了一塊財產，然後需要一年左右的時間才能獲得陸軍工程兵團的緩解銀行工具，然後您在很長一段時間內出售信用額時間可以是10年。因此，緩解銀行業務的最初幾年透過啟動計畫播下了許多種子。我們現在正進入這個時期。我們將開始看到我們從這些銀行的信貸銷售中獲得了非常有吸引力的收入。所以不是直接回答你的問題，但我希望這對你有幫助？

Yeah, that's great. And then I think last question on just on the Yum. You gave some additional detail on the K on your solar project. Can you talk a little bit about how large an investment you're contemplating there? And do you continue to think it's going to be a very high ROI.

是的，那太好了。然後我想到最後一個問題是關於百勝餐飲的。您提供了有關太陽能項目 K 的一些額外細節。您能談談您正在考慮在那裡進行多大的投資嗎？您是否仍然認為這將是一個非常高的投資報酬率。

Yes. I mean, the returns are pretty attractive on the projects as we're viewing them. I think our approach is primarily, although not entirely, but our approach is primarily and that we're going to seek to serve as developers. We we have knowledge that I think is somewhat unique with respect to properties that would be attractive for solar farms, including reclaim mine land, whether that's ours or others, a lot of people are scared off that stuff. We understand what the risks and opportunities are with respect to those properties. And so our investments are really going to be in the development phase, which is acquiring the land or securing land through lease or other means and then working on interconnect studies and finding EPC contractors and getting the whole thing put together into a package. I think it's very possible that we will end up right as the things ready to go. It's all got to turn a nice box with a bow on it. You sell it to somebody who's in the business of owning and operating these things over the over the long term, including constructing them and do we keep to we'd keep it ownership interest in some way in those we could it could be an ownership interest in the solar farm itself. It could be and we retain the land and collect a lease payment. I mean, there's a whole bunch of ways we could we could think about this. I do know when you get into big solar farms, the capital can be very, very substantial. And given our desire to protect the daylights out of our balance sheet, we're not going to we're not going to bite off something that's bigger than than more comfortable dealing with.

是的。我的意思是，正如我們所看到的，這些項目的回報非常有吸引力。我認為我們的方法是主要的，儘管不完全是，但我們的方法是主要的，並且我們將尋求作為開發人員服務。我們知道，我認為對太陽能發電場有吸引力的財產有些獨特，包括開墾礦區，無論是我們的還是其他人的，很多人都害怕這些東西。我們了解這些財產的風險和機會。因此，我們的投資實際上將處於開發階段，即透過租賃或其他方式獲取土地或確保土地，然後進行互連研究並尋找 EPC 承包商，並將整個過程整合到一個包中。我認為我們很有可能最終會一切順利。這一切都必須變成一個漂亮的盒子，上面有一個蝴蝶結。你把它賣給長期擁有和經營這些東西的人，包括建造它們，我們會以某種方式保留它的所有權權益嗎？可能是這樣，我們保留土地並收取租金。我的意思是，我們可以用很多方式來思考這個問題。我確實知道，當你進入大型太陽能發電廠時，資本可能非常非常可觀。考慮到我們希望保護資產負債表之外的陽光，我們不會咬掉比更舒服的處理更大的東西。

Right now. That makes sense. Okay. Actually one last quick one is just on the boiler. I think in your filing you said second half, you think you'll be repaired. You have given pretty good visibility. Are you just kind of watching along with everyone else?

現在。這就說得通了。好的。實際上最後一個快速的就在鍋爐上。我認為你在文件中說過下半年，你認為你會得到修復。你已經給出了很好的可見性。你只是和其他人一起觀看嗎？

So I mean, we're next door, right to for the mine is next door to the power plant. So we have great relationship with the folks over the power plant because of the nature of the operation, 100% of their fuel comes from our mine.

所以我的意思是，我們就在隔壁，因為礦井就在發電廠的隔壁。因此，由於營運的性質，我們與發電廠的人們有著很好的關係，他們 100% 的燃料都來自我們的礦場。

There are only customer. So it makes it makes it very important to have a close, transparent relationship. So we know our folks on the on the scene and, you know, stay in close touch with the people over at the power plant. And I think everybody feels good about the progress that's being made and it's really our customers' project. So I don't want to say that much about it because it's their disclosure, not ours, but it's progressing nicely and we feel good about clinically. I think they feel good about.

只有顧客。因此，保持密切、透明的關係非常重要。因此，我們了解現場的人員，並且與發電廠的人員保持密切聯繫。我認為每個人都對正在取得的進展感到滿意，這確實是我們客戶的專案。所以我不想對此說太多，因為這是他們的披露，不是我們的，但它進展順利，我們對臨床感覺良好。我覺得他們感覺很好。

Great. Okay. Well, thanks again for all the answers and talk to you next quarter.

偉大的。好的。好吧，再次感謝您的所有回答，並在下個季度與您交談。

Yes, once again, we appreciate your interest.

是的，我們再次感謝您的關注。

Thanks, Doug.

謝謝，道格。

Thanks.

謝謝。

And your next question comes from [Nachi Kanci] with [Cyacin]. Your line is open.

你的下一個問題來自 [Nachi Kanci][氰青素]。您的線路已開通。

Okay, great quarter. Thanks.

好的，很棒的季度。謝謝。

Thank you. Go ahead.

謝謝。前進。

Good morning. Picking up where that last question that I've talked to a few questions on Mississippi. Can you can you provide an update on the financial health of your customer over there? Had they emerged from whatever restructuring they were in. It was of their balance sheet?

早安.繼續我剛才談到的關於密西西比州的幾個問題的最後一個問題。您能提供有關您那裡客戶的財務狀況的最新資訊嗎？他們是否從正在進行的重組中脫穎而出？這是他們的資產負債表？

From what I understand from the from Southern's disclosures. That's all been settled in respect to you're talking about as the restructuring with the bondholders.

據我從南方的披露中了解到。關於你所說的與債券持有人的重組，這一切都已經解決了。

Right?

正確的？

Correct.

正確的。

Yes. And that's that's been that's been resolved. I think Southern disclosed that a couple of quarters ago, maybe three quarters, four quarters ago.

是的。這就是已經解決的問題。我認為南方航空在幾個季度前，也許是三個季度、四個季度前就披露了這一點。

The I mean what I what I'd see as Alan's disclosures is that I'm not putting any additional capital into it, and there was certainly no cash reserve in the business prior to restructuring. So what I'm trying to understand is how strong is your counterparty and its ability. You have to maintain a position of buying the amount of lignite you guys want them and project them to buy for the next several years?

我的意思是，我所看到的艾倫的披露是，我沒有投入任何額外的資本，而且在重組之前，該公司肯定沒有現金儲備。所以我想了解的是你的交易對手有多強，能力有多強。你們必須維持購買你們想要的褐煤數量的立場，並計劃他們在未來幾年購買？

Well, I think the ultimate I mean, I think the real question is, does TVA need the Electron. And if you look at TVA's latest Q, which was just recently filed, they've had record demand for electrodes because that ultimately is how this plays out. And, you know, TVA has a tremendous need.

好吧，我認為最終的意思是，我認為真正的問題是 TVA 是否需要 Electron。如果你看看 TVA 最近剛提交的最新 Q 報告，你會發現他們對電極的需求創歷史新高，因為這最終就是這樣的結果。而且，您知道，TVA 有巨大的需求。

Yes, we see that through the operation of the power plant and ultimately, if TVA needs the electrons that are going to buy them from the plant. And that means that the plant needs coal in order to fuel the plant. So --

是的，我們透過發電廠的運作以及最終 TVA 是否需要從發電廠購買電子來看到這一點。這意味著該工廠需要煤炭來為工廠提供燃料。所以--

Sure, someone is going to have to put in capital, right? I mean on it. And are you saying that the TVA may actually put in capital for repairs or for ongoing CapEx.

當然，總得有人投入資金，對吧？我的意思是關於它。您是說 TVA 實際上可能會投入資金用於維修或持續的資本支出嗎？

I mean, I'm not --

我的意思是，我不是--

To think about

想一下

I'm not privy to the details, but my understanding is there's a provision in the waterfall with respect to we know the mechanics of the the bond that provides for capital that's needed for maintenance and repairs.

我不知道細節，但我的理解是，瀑布中有一項規定，我們知道債券的機制，該機制提供了維護和維修所需的資本。

Yes, but that goes on right now. And I'm trying to understand the whatever, whatever the new bond structure is, which I am not privy to who I'm trying to understand.

是的，但這種情況現在仍在繼續。我正在嘗試了解新的債券結構，無論新的債券結構是什麼，但我並不知道我想要了解的人是誰。

We don't we don't have we're not privy to the terms of that agreement.

我們不知道，我們不知道該協議的條款。

Okay. Thanks. And then I appreciated your comments at the beginning about the Mercury standard and my understanding from some of the technical documents that EPA put out and as you. As you stated, it's pre-publication is that EPA was actually predicting a relatively low additional OpEx requirement at Red Hills was under $1 million a year. And your comments suggested actually Athena sort of judicial relief of some sort a pretty pessimistic outlook on compliance across, but just trying to square those two and the two somewhere in the middle or how should I think about that?

好的。謝謝。然後，我感謝您一開始對汞標準的評論，以及我對 EPA 發布的一些技術文件和您的理解。正如您所說，在預發布中，EPA 實際上預測 Red Hills 的額外營運支出要求相對較低，每年低於 100 萬美元。你的評論實際上表明雅典娜採取了某種司法救濟，對合規性持相當悲觀的看法，但只是試圖將這兩者和兩者放在中間的某個地方，或者我應該如何考慮這一點？

I think the whole thing is subject to massive litigation. I think it's maybe one the rules aren't final yet. And two, I think know this is this is going to be litigated just like prior EPA rules have been litigated. The interesting piece in the Journal yesterday about data or at least I read it online last night, and I assume it was it yesterday article about the challenges that the rules face.

我認為整件事情都會受到大規模訴訟的影響。我認為這可能是規則尚未最終確定的原因。第二，我認為這將被提起訴訟，就像之前的 EPA 規則已被提起訴訟一樣。昨天《華爾街日報》上關於數據的有趣文章，或者至少我昨晚在網路上讀到了它，我認為這是昨天關於規則面臨的挑戰的文章。

There's no question of litigation. I agree with you that, but the mercury standards that are in effect for non lignite coal-fired power plants are in fact, I mean, they have they have survived that was a decade ago, correct.

不存在訴訟的問題。我同意你的觀點，但對非褐煤燃煤電廠有效的汞標準實際上是，我的意思是，它們已經在十年前倖存下來了，是正確的。

So decent. I guess what I'm trying to understand is on what is I had tons of uncertainty, of course, on how the courts will look at this and future administrations, of course, might look at this very differently as well.

太體面了。我想我想了解的是，我有很多不確定性，當然，法院將如何看待這件事，未來的政府當然也可能會以非常不同的方式看待這個問題。

But I'm trying to trying to understand what the actual cost of compliance might be at your customer, even like ballpark order of magnitude? Like is it tens of thousands and tens of millions somewhere in between.

但我試圖了解您的客戶的實際合規成本可能是多少，即使是大概的數量級？就像是在數萬到數千萬之間。

I think it would be inappropriate for me, but publicly speculate on and on information that I don't know your ministry on their part and I'm not I'm we don't operate in a power plant, so I'm not privy to that kind of information.

我認為這對我來說是不合適的，但公開推測我不了解你們的部門，我不是，我們不在發電廠運營，所以我不是了解此類資訊。

Sure. Makes sense. And last last question on so there was the $6 million impairment charge in the last quarter. And can you help me understand thinking of the Mississippi business and this the core asset, which is this long term sales agreement? And how how much of the book value of that asset. It went away, but that $60 million impairment charge for that question makes sense. Like how is the asset half the size that I used to think it was at 90% of the size I used to think it was?

當然。說得通。最後一個問題是上個季度 600 萬美元的減損費用。您能否幫助我了解密西西比業務及其核心資產（即長期銷售協議）的想法？該資產的帳面價值是多少。它消失了，但針對這個問題徵收 6000 萬美元的減損費用是有道理的。例如資產規模是我以前認為的一半還是我以前認為的 90%？

It was neither of which Medicenna and think about

Medicenna 和思考都不是

So I think you can see the coal supply agreement, I think you're talking about that the intangible related to the coal supply agreement.

所以我認為你可以看到煤炭供應協議，我認為你正在談論與煤炭供應協議相關的無形資產。

Are you're talking about

你是在說嗎

110 by the enterprise value of the Mississippi business, basically how much smaller is it than it was in Q3,

110 以密西西比州企業價值計算，基本上比第三季小了多少，

Particularly we've never disclosed sort of asset value related to a specific.

特別是我們從未揭露過與特定資產相關的資產價值。

In our in our risk factor in the 10-K. Previously, we said our assets at risk around $130 million, and we took a $5 million performance with you.

在我們的風險係數中為 10-K。此前，我們表示我們的資產面臨風險約 1.3 億美元，而我們卻為您提供了 500 萬美元的業績。

Okay. That's really helpful. Thank you. And so when you were determining the ROE, this is going back a quarter, I'm sorry, but when you were when you were when you were looking at in financials and deciding how much to write off on. Was it primarily the relatively short term, a decrease in sales that factored into that overall $60.8 million figure? Or was it also additional thinking around the license that agreement.

好的。這真的很有幫助。謝謝。因此，當您確定股本回報率時，我很抱歉，這要追溯到四分之一，但是當您查看財務數據並決定沖銷多少時。6,080 萬美元的總銷售額是否主要是由於相對短期的銷售額下降所致？或者這也是圍繞該協議許可的額外思考。

For the trigger was the December. I think it was 15 issue at the power plant. And you know, as we're sitting there at year end, you have this big event at the plant, which nobody but that's at that moment in time, can assess exactly the extent of the damage or what it's going to take to repair it it, of course, calls into question, what are what are going to what will our near term deliveries be they pretty quickly figured out that they could operate the plant. They believed on one boiler. We know they can, but they did and didn't see any reason any other reasons related to this incident for that. So as we looked at the situation where we could have an extended period of time where there's been a reduced deliveries to the plant, given the fact that a mining operation is largely a fixed cost operation that affects our economics pretty pretty significantly because we're seeing it yet. And so it's really that trigger with respect to the near term, when you think about NPV of an asset near term scale more than far out in the future. And then of course, you had to go through all the GAAP required exercise to figure out your impairment, but it was the short term and effect of that that really triggered this assessment.

觸發因素是十二月。我認為這是發電廠的 15 號問題。你知道，正如我們在年底坐在那裡的時候，工廠裡發生了一場大事件，除了當時的那個時刻之外，沒有人能夠準確評估損壞的程度或需要採取什麼措施來修復它當然，這引起了人們的質疑，我們的近期交付量會怎樣，他們很快就發現他們可以運作該工廠。他們相信一台鍋爐。我們知道他們可以，但他們確實這樣做了，但沒有看到任何與此事件相關的任何其他原因。因此，當我們考慮這種情況時，我們可能會在很長一段時間內減少向工廠的交貨量，因為採礦作業很大程度上是一項固定成本作業，對我們的經濟影響相當大，因為我們還沒看到。因此，當你考慮一項資產的近期淨現值規模大於未來的遠期規模時，這確實是近期的觸發因素。當然，你必須完成所有 GAAP 要求的練習才能找出你的缺陷，但真正引發這種評估的是短期和影響。

Okay. That makes sense. And I think I think last question, how should I think about the MATS rule with respect to your other unconsolidated operations? Is there a different way I should think about that And compared to the Mississippi situation?

好的。這就說得通了。我想我想最後一個問題，對於您的其他未合併業務，我應該如何考慮 MATS 規則？與密西西比州的情況相比，我是否應該以不同的方式思考這個問題？

I mean, I mean, if you mean our ASPs were MATS rule doesn't apply to our mines. It applies to our customers' power plants and those are all right or lignite powered power plants. So each of them, of course, have their own technologies with respect to their boilers in there, environmental controls. And I think each of them will be assessing these independently.

我的意思是，我的意思是，如果您的意思是我們的 ASP 是 MATS 規則，則不適用於我們的礦場。它適用於我們客戶的發電廠，這些發電廠都是褐煤發電廠。當然，他們每個人都有自己的鍋爐、環境控制技術。我認為他們每個人都會獨立評估這些。

I appreciate your time with me this morning.

我很感謝你今天早上和我在一起。

Yes, thanks for your questions.

是的，謝謝您的提問。

And your next question comes from John Hubert with Sabre capital. John, your line is open.

您的下一個問題來自 Sabre 資本的 John Hubert。約翰，您的線路已開通。

Yes, thanks for the thoughtful reply. This has been a great call, a lot of a lot of good education, and I appreciate the history and the some of the Minerals Management history there was quite interesting. My question is on that business that I follow a few of the royalty companies. And I think the market for the Minerals has been quite high. It's been it's been quite competitive over the last few years. And I'm just wondering if you guys share that view and if so, I'm wondering what kind of what advantage you guys have like, what kind of networks do you have, what advantage you think gives you guys the ability to earn the returns that you're generating, which according to what I'm looking at, I'm looking at like $68 million of investment capital over the last few years, and I think you did around $19 million of profit. So that looks like a pretty good return. So I'm just kind of wondering what your how you guys are viewing your advantage in what I think is a pretty competitive market right now.

是的，感謝您的周到回覆。這是一個很棒的電話，得到了很多很好的教育，我很欣賞這裡的歷史，而且那裡的一些礦產管理歷史非常有趣。我的問題是關於我關注的一些特許權使用費公司的業務。我認為礦物市場一直都相當高。過去幾年，它的競爭相當激烈。我只是想知道你們是否同意這個觀點，如果是的話，我想知道你們有什麼樣的優勢，你們有什麼樣的網絡，你們認為什麼優勢讓你們有能力贏得你們所產生的回報，根據我的觀察，過去幾年我看到了大約6800 萬美元的投資資本，我認為你獲得了大約1900 萬美元的利潤。所以這看起來是一個相當不錯的回報。所以我只是想知道你們如何看待你們在我認為目前競爭相當激烈的市場中的優勢。

So let's go back to the history and Luke and I would I would love to say that were earning that kind of return on the investment is $6 million to $8 million. But I've went through the history lesson of where we got the Appalachian minerals, which are the biggest income producers for us and our cost basis in those things is like zero as they were acquired eons ago. So there's a bunch of that Appalachian stuff that has no meaningful asset on the balance sheet. So if when we look internally at our numbers, our returns right now are astronomical to, we believe, over time as we make investments that we think this business is going to be up. Ultimately, as we get more and more and more new money invested, we think we're going to earn high 10s. I'd like to think low 20s, but high 10s on our investments. And wherever we're at this interesting point, we're investing in a business that's got extraordinarily high returns and it's going to blend down to something in the high 10s as you as you've noted, the Yum. But what's our what's our advantage? I think our big advantage one is I think we have assembled a great team of people that are very thoughtful about their analysis. And one of the things that makes them a great fit for us is they take a very long term view of investing in this space and which is partly how they're wired. It's 100%. How we're wired to have spent time looking at the Company were we are perfectly happy to take decades-long views of investments. So when we acquire minerals, we can we're perfectly happy to acquire minerals that won't be developed for 10 or 15 years. And because we're building that base that's going to deliver, you know, dividends way out into the future and you don't have to have to pay a lot for those, but we're willing to look at those packages I think a number of the competitors, certainly not all, but a number of the other people that play in this space are either doing so with money that's coming out of private equity firms or they're borrowing money or they've they're operating a YieldCo, which means they've got to constantly be feeding the yieldco model, which means their primary interest is in producing wells and that's what they want to buy. And that's what they that's what they bid up is start diluting that with things that aren't going to get developed for two years five years, 10 years, 15 years, they're less interested in that. So it's it's less frothy. And in that part of the market, at least generally speaking, I mean, every card and kind of market, there's exceptions to the rule. But generally, that's kind of what we see. And it's the long-term view that we think gives us gives us an advantage that's interesting and helpful.

讓我們回顧一下歷史，盧克和我很想說，我們獲得的投資回報是 600 萬至 800 萬美元。但我已經了解了我們從哪裡獲得阿巴拉契亞礦物的歷史教訓，這些礦物是我們最大的收入來源，而我們在這些東西上的成本基礎幾乎為零，因為它們是在億萬年前獲得的。因此，有很多阿巴拉契亞的東西在資產負債表上沒有任何有意義的資產。因此，如果我們從內部審視我們的數據，我們相信，隨著時間的推移，我們現在的回報是天文數字，隨著我們進行投資，我們認為這項業務將會成長。最終，隨著我們獲得越來越多的新資金投資，我們認為我們將獲得高額的 10 美元。我認為我們的投資是 20 多歲，但 10 多歲。無論我們處於這個有趣的時刻，我們所投資的企業都具有極高的回報率，並且正如您所指出的那樣，它的回報率將下降到 10 左右的水平，即百勝餐飲集團。但我們的優勢是什麼？我認為我們的一大優勢是我們組建了一支優秀的團隊，他們的分析非常周到。他們非常適合我們的原因之一是他們以非常長遠的眼光來投資這個領域，這在某種程度上也是他們的接線方式。是100%。如果我們非常樂意對數十年的投資進行觀察，我們就會花時間研究該公司。因此，當我們獲取礦物時，我們可以非常高興地獲得 10 或 15 年內不會開發的礦物。因為我們正在建立一個基礎，它將在未來提供股息，你不必為此付出很多代價，但我們願意考慮這些方案，我認為競爭對手的數量，當然不是全部，但參與這個領域的許多其他人要么使用來自私募股權公司的資金，要么借錢，或者經營一家YieldCo ，這意味著他們必須不斷地支持 Yieldco 模型，這意味著他們的主要興趣是生產油井，而這正是他們想要購買的。這就是他們的出價，他們開始稀釋那些兩年、五年、十年、十五年都不會開發的東西，他們對此不太感興趣。所以它的泡沫較少。在這部分市場中，至少一般來說，我的意思是，每張牌和每一種市場，都有例外。但一般來說，這就是我們所看到的。我們認為，長期的觀點為我們帶來了有趣且有益的優勢。

Yes, very helpful. With what I know is you have a few new somewhat undeveloped acreage in the Williston Basin. How much you think I don't know if you guys have a way to break this down, but of the [$68 million] that you've spent since 2020, what how much of that is undeveloped or how much of that is sort of untapped potential for future?

是的，非常有幫助。據我所知，威利斯頓盆地有一些新的尚未開發的土地。我不知道你們是否有辦法解決這個問題，但是在你們自 2020 年以來花費的 [6800 萬美元] 中，有多少是未開發的，或者有多少是某種程度的未來未開發的潛力？

You know, production.

你知道，生產。

I don't know. And I will give you a very honest answer and say I don't know.

我不知道。我會給你一個非常誠實的答案並說我不知道。

Yes.

是的。

Okay, Tom, this is one of the things delivers is flipping in the K or I mean.

好吧，湯姆，我的意思是，這就是 K 翻轉的其中一件事。

We have provided some of that data in our 10 K. So I don't know if you've looked through that, but that would provide you some additional information.

我們在 10 K 中提供了其中一些數據。 所以我不知道您是否看過這些數據，但這將為您提供一些額外的信息。

for us.

為了我們。

That was like if you start on page 46 of the 10-K.

就像您從 10-K 的第 46 頁開始一樣。

What I'm yes, I see that there's I see the amount of acreage. I just trying to get a sense for for for how much maybe if you had a view of what you would have, what I'm really trying to do holistically to get a sense for from a strategic level, what how are you guys thinking about the capital that you're investing in that say you've touched you give me a nice background.

我是的，我看到了我看到了面積。我只是想了解一下，如果你對自己會擁有什麼有一個看法，我真正想要從戰略層面上整體了解什麼，你們在想什麼你投資的資本說你已經接觸過你給了我一個很好的背景。

That was super helpful. You mentioned I think you mentioned like high-teens returns. Obviously you have this sort of legacy assets, these legacy assets that have been part of the company for decades and decades. But what, um, how are you when you look at a project? Are you from I mean, I'm sure you're coming up with some sort of IRR calculation, but I'm trying to get a sense for how you compare that to perhaps other other uses of capital within the business. I'm including perhaps buying your own stock back, which you've done some of. So just wanted to get a sense for what types of return hurdle rates you're looking at for this for this minerals business.

這非常有幫助。你提到過，我想你提到過高青少年回報率。顯然，你擁有這種遺留資產，而這些遺留資產幾十年來一直是公司的一部分。但是，嗯，當你查看一個項目時，你感覺怎麼樣？我的意思是，我確信您正在想出某種內部收益率計算方法，但我試圖了解您如何將其與企業內其他資本用途進行比較。我可能會回購你自己的股票，你已經做了一些。因此，我只是想了解您正在為該礦產業務尋找什麼類型的回報率。

So when we look at investments in this business, you're right. I mean, we're looking at IRR kind of kind of metrics as well as other metrics. But IRR, certainly at P7 and all have IRRs, Kosan's, you know, like NPV and royalty calculations, things like that. And when we're looking at projects, I mean, we're looking at the projects as standalone projects where minimum thinking about them in the context of what does it cost to add this to portfolio? And you know, there's an there's an overhead component, certainly. But when we look at stuff, we're trying to buy things that we think are going to deliver IRRs in the high 10s, understanding that the undeveloped, anything that's not producing or discounting, you know what its value might be in the future because you just don't know, we've got high confidence that is coming that it's going to get developed, but we don't know exactly when, and we certainly don't know what prevailing oil and gas prices will be at the time. So we attribute we're shooting for high 10s based on what we have a reasonable sense of achieving and the other stuff is now over and above that it can outperform electric number pick and underperform to. But we think by buying lots of I mean, our highly diversified packages of mineral interests. We're getting a lot of exposure to a lot of acres and a lot of basins, and we're getting oilier. We used to be very gas heavy, and that's that's creating the right dynamic that we're looking for. And I will tell you over time through a lot of the Appalachian natural gas has been developed. And so we're going to be way out on the decline curve some eventually. And so it won't be as meaningful to. So the portfolio at that point.

因此，當我們考慮對該業務的投資時，您是對的。我的意思是，我們正在研究內部收益率（IRR）之類的指標以及其他指標。但是 IRR，當然是 P7，而且所有的都有 IRR，Kosan 的，你知道，例如 NPV 和特許權使用費計算，諸如此類。當我們查看項目時，我的意思是，我們將這些項目視為獨立項目，其中最少考慮將其添加到投資組合中的成本是多少？你知道，當然有一個開銷部分。但當我們看東西時，我們會嘗試購買那些我們認為內部收益率會在 10 左右的東西，了解未開發的東西，任何不生產或打折的東西，你知道它未來的價值可能是多少，因為你只是不知道，我們對它將會得到開發充滿信心，但我們不知道確切的時間，我們當然也不知道當時的石油和天然氣價格是多少。因此，我們認為我們的目標是高 10 分，這是基於我們有合理的成就感，而其他東西現在已經超出了它可以超越電動數字選擇並表現不佳的程度。但我們認為，透過購買大量，我的意思是，我們高度多元化的礦產權益組合。我們對大片土地和大片盆地進行了大量的投資，而且我們的石油越來越多。我們曾經非常注重汽油，這就是我們正在尋找的正確動力。我會告訴你，隨著時間的推移，阿巴拉契亞山脈的許多天然氣已經被開發出來。因此，我們最終將在下降曲線上找到出路。所以它不會那麼有意義。所以當時的投資組合。

It sounds like is what you're saying is it sounds like you may be interested more in acquiring oil assets than yet, and a lot of the legacy stuff, the Appalachia that a lot of stuff in the Gulf Coast is more gas related, but some of the Permian and Rockies is more oily. Is that kind of where you'd like to go?

聽起來你的意思是，聽起來你可能對收購石油資產更感興趣，還有很多遺留的東西，阿巴拉契亞，墨西哥灣沿岸的很多東西都與天然氣更多相關，但是一些二疊紀和落基山脈的油性更高。那是你想去的地方嗎？

Yes. I mean, you know, if you go back to 2018 you know, all the all of our rigs were in Appalachian natural gas, right? That's what we had. And so if you think about diversify, we want to be in other basins we want to have more oil. We want to have more operators. We want to. We think it's we like the asset. We like the space. We like this asset category, a lot. And so we want to we want to diversify that position into other things in the United States.

是的。我的意思是，如果你回到 2018 年，你就會知道，我們所有的鑽井平台都使用阿巴拉契亞天然氣，對嗎？這就是我們所擁有的。因此，如果你考慮多元化，我們希望在其他盆地擁有更多的石油。我們希望有更多的運營商。我們想。我們認為這是我們喜歡的資產。我們喜歡這個空間。我們非常喜歡這個資產類別。因此，我們希望將這一立場多元化到美國的其他領域。

Yes, it's great. On the accountable team, this $20 million, I had a question on maybe I don't know what you can share with us like how they're incentivized, but what happens if you can't find assets that meet your hurdle rate is it is it. Somebody who are, hey, if we don't get to the $20 million, that's okay, or.

是的這很好。在負責任的團隊中，這2000萬美元，我有一個問題，也許我不知道你可以與我們分享什麼，例如他們是如何激勵的，但如果你找不到符合你最低門檻的資產，會發生什麼？有人說，嘿，如果我們達不到 2000 萬美元，那也沒關係，或者。

Without getting into the nitty-gritty details of our incentive plans, we take a one team approach to incentive, everybody that participates incentive plans all operate so that we're all incentivized to help each other, make it a team sport watch sports. You're going to always know that winds at. So, you know, if they if they invest, that's great if they don't invest.

在不深入了解激勵計劃的具體細節的情況下，我們採取團隊激勵的方式，參與激勵計劃的每個人都進行運作，以便我們都有動力互相幫助，使其成為一項團隊運動。你將永遠知道風向。所以，你知道，如果他們投資，如果他們不投資，那也很好。

That's okay, too, because everybody participates in the same incentive programs that are tied to total company performance.

這也沒關係，因為每個人都參與與公司整體績效掛鉤的相同激勵計畫。

It is a strength which I cannot think of here.

這是我在這裡想不到的力量。

We think if you carve people off into individual groups, they're going to start people people by their very nature. It's true. I mean, it's true of everybody, right, everybody.

我們認為，如果你把人們分成不同的群體，他們就會從本質上把人們變成人。這是真的。我的意思是，這對每個人都是如此，對吧，每個人。

We'll start just focusing on what they're interested in.

我們將開始專注於他們感興趣的事情。

And that's not how you build our Company for the next 100 years.

這不是您在未來 100 年建立我們公司的方式。

No well, well said that, that's exactly I would completely agree, and that's music to my ears. So you don't want to have I've seen too many situations where you have incentive structures where, hey, we're going to allocate up to $20 million and that typically means we're going to allocate $20 million come hell or high water. And that's not necessarily the best use of capital. There's some other sources and returns that you can generate elsewhere within the business.

不，說得好，這正是我完全同意的，這對我來說就是音樂。所以你不想有我見過太多的情況，你有激勵結構，嘿，我們將分配高達 2000 萬美元，這通常意味著我們將分配 2000 萬美元，無論地獄還是高地水。這不一定是資本的最佳利用方式。您也可以在企業的其他地方產生一些其他來源和回報。

Have some.

有一些。

That's great.

那太棒了。

And I had a quick question on and thank you for that again, that's really helpful on the minerals on the CapEx in North American Mining hub. I was reading the filings this morning, so I may have missed this or misunderstood this but I believe that the $23 million of CapEx that you spent and at the Nevada project is reimbursed by the of the mine owners.

我有一個簡短的問題，再次感謝您，這對北美採礦中心資本支出的礦物非常有幫助。我今天早上正在閱讀文件，所以我可能錯過了這一點或誤解了這一點，但我相信您在內華達州項目花費的 2300 萬美元資本支出已由礦主償還。

That correct?

正確嗎？

Yes, from a cash standpoint will be reimbursed over five years. From a GAAP standpoint, it goes down.

是的，從現金角度來看，將在五年內償還。從公認會計準則的角度來看，它下降了。

Revenues recognized upfront and useful life of assets as our GAAP and cash Raymond uncommon.

收入的預先確認和資產的使用壽命與我們的公認會計準則和現金雷蒙德不同尋常。

Right, right.

是的是的。

Ok.

好的。

So you get payback or five years in cash.

這樣你就可以得到回報或五年現金。

And then of that $33 million that I think you've guided to in that business, is that is there some what percentage of that is reimbursable, if any.

然後，我認為您在該業務中引導的 3300 萬美元中，有多少百分比是可償還的（如果有的話）。

Sense, not to have a majority of that is for business, my remaining North American Mining business, not for cyber threats.

感覺，大部分不是為了業務，我剩下的北美礦業業務，而不是為了網路威脅。

Got you.

明白你了。

Okay.

好的。

And I know, Kevin and I am sorry, it is, but Christie's telling you that we've got like one minute left on this call before we get cut off your view of the first third caller we've ever had in our super excited and no problem at all that.

我知道，凱文和我很抱歉，是的，但是克里斯蒂告訴你，在我們超級興奮地看到第一個第三個來電者之前，我們的通話時間還剩一分鐘。

And I've had most of my questions there, Andrew?

我的大部分問題都在那裡，安德魯？

Yes, I appreciate the thoughtful replies. And yes, I can follow up later with a couple other quick questions, but I know, Greg, I appreciate the answers.

是的，我很欣賞深思熟慮的回覆。是的，我可以稍後再問幾個其他簡短的問題，但我知道，格雷格，我很欣賞你的答案。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, thank you so much, everyone. At this time, I'll turn it back over to Christina Kmetko for closing remarks.

嗯，非常感謝大家。這次，我將把它轉回克里斯蒂娜·克梅特科（Christina Kmetko）做總結發言。

Okay. Well, with that, we will conclude our very robust Q&A session. As Jason said, that was very informative for everybody and before we conclude, I would like to provide a few reminders. A replay of the call will be available later this morning. We'll also post a transcript on the website when it becomes available. And if you do have any follow-up questions, please reach out to me my phone numbers at on the release. So I hope everyone has a great day, and I'll turn it back over to Bailey to conclude the call.

好的。好了，我們的問答環節就到此結束了。正如傑森所說，這對每個人都非常有用，在我們結束之前，我想提供一些提醒。今天上午稍晚將提供通話重播。當文字記錄可用時，我們也會在網站上發布文字記錄。如果您確實有任何後續問題，請透過新聞稿聯絡我的電話號碼。所以我希望每個人都有美好的一天，我會將其轉交給貝利來結束通話。

This concludes today's conference call. A replay of the conference will be available for seven days ending May 9, 2024 just the replay, please dial one 18006457964 or 17578496722 then enter the playback ID nine four three five, followed by the pound key. Thank you for attending.

今天的電話會議到此結束。會議重播將持續 7 天，截至 2024 年 5 月 9 日，僅重播，請撥打 18006457964 或 17578496722，然後輸入重播 ID 九四三五，然後按井號鍵。感謝您的出席。