NACCO Industries Inc (NC) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the NACCO Industries' third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

在此，我謹代表 NACCO Industries 公司歡迎各位參加 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）

Thank you. It is now my pleasure to turn all over to Christina Kometko with Investor relations, yes, please go ahead.

謝謝。現在我很高興把發言權交給投資者關係部的克里斯蒂娜·科梅特科，好的，請開始吧。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for today's third quarter 2025 earnings call. I'm Christina Kometko and I oversee investor relations here at NACO.

各位早安，感謝各位參加今天的2025年第三季財報電話會議。我是 Christina Kometko，我負責 NACO 的投資者關係。

I'm joined by our President and CEO JC Butler, and our senior Vice President and Comptroller, Elizabeth Loveman.

與我一同出席的還有我們的總裁兼執行長 JC Butler，以及我們的資深副總裁兼財務長 Elizabeth Loveman。

Yesterday evening, we released our third quarter results and filed our 100 with the FEC. Both are available on our website for your reference.

昨晚，我們公佈了第三季業績，並向聯邦選舉委員會提交了第 100 號文件。這兩份文件都可以在我們的網站上找到，供您參考。

Before we get into the results, let me remind you that today's discussion will include forward-looking statements. As always, actual outcomes could differ materially due to various risks and uncertainties which are outlined in our earnings release 10-Q and other findings. We undertake no obligation to update these statements. We'll also be referencing certain non-GAAP metrics to give you a clear picture of how we think about our business. Reconciliations to gaps can be found in the materials we posted online.

在公佈結果之前，我想提醒各位，今天的討論將包含前瞻性陳述。與以往一樣，由於各種風險和不確定性（這些風險和不確定性已在我們的 10-Q 獲利報告和其他調查結果中列出），實際結果可能與預期有重大差異。我們不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。我們也會參考一些非GAAP指標，以便讓您清楚了解我們對業務的看法。我們可以在網路上發布的資料中找到對差距的解釋。

Lastly, as a reminder, during the second quarter, we changed the names of our reportable segments. Coal mining was renamed Utility Coal Mining.

最後提醒一下，在第二季度，我們更改了可報告分部的名稱。煤炭開採更名為公用事業煤開採。

North American Mining is now contract mining, and Minerals Management was renamed Minerals and Royalties. Segment composition and historical reporting are unchanged. With the housekeeping comments complete, I'll turn the call over to JC for his opening remarks. JC.

北美礦業現在採用合約採礦模式，礦產管理公司更名為礦產和特許權使用費公司。分部構成和歷史報告維持不變。雜務處理完畢，接下來我將把電話交給 JC，請他致開幕詞。JC。

Thanks, Christy, and good morning, everyone. I'm happy to report that our third quarter operating profit of almost $7 million improved sequentially from very disappointing second quarter break-even results. Our Q3 2025 EBITDA increased to $12.5 million up from $9.3 million in Q2. This sequential increase was driven by improvements in all segments and demonstrates solid progress in growing our businesses and boosting our profitability.

謝謝克里斯蒂，大家早安。我很高興地報告，我們第三季的營業利潤接近 700 萬美元，較第二季令人失望的收支平衡業績有所改善。我們 2025 年第三季的 EBITDA 從第二季的 930 萬美元增至 1,250 萬美元。這一環比成長得益於各業務板塊的改善，顯示我們在業務成長和提高獲利能力方面取得了穩步進展。

I'm pleased we were able to overcome most of last quarter's temporary operational challenges to deliver these solid third quarter results. Our utility coal mining segment is the foundation of our business, anchored by our long-term mining contracts. We continue to have solid demand in our unconsolidated coal mining operations.

我很高興我們克服了上季的大部分暫時性營運挑戰，並取得了穩健的第三季業績。我們的公用事業煤礦開採業務是我們業務的基礎，而我們的長期採礦合約則為其提供了保障。我們在非集中式煤礦開採業務方面仍保持著強勁的需求。

However, Mississippi Lignite Mining Company's results continue to be impacted by contractual pricing mechanics that are creating a reduced per ton sales price, the team is working diligently to run the mine as efficiently as possible to meet demand while keeping costs at a minimum, but they cannot outrun the contract mechanics. We anticipate that this contractual pricing anomaly will begin to rectify itself as we move into 2026.

然而，密西西比褐煤礦業公司的業績仍受到合約定價機制的影響，導致每噸銷售價格下降。團隊正在努力以盡可能高效的方式運營礦山，以滿足需求，同時將成本降至最低，但他們無法擺脫合約機制的影響。我們預計，隨著我們進入 2026 年，這種合約定價異常現象將開始得到糾正。

In our contract mining segment, which is operated by North American Mining, tons delivered grew 20% year over year and 3% sequentially. Higher customer demand and improved margins at the mining operations led to substantial improvements in both year over year and sequential results.

在我們由北美礦業公司營運的合約採礦業務板塊，交付噸數年增 20%，較上季成長 3%。客戶需求增加和礦業業務利潤率提高，使得公司業績年比和季比均大幅提升。

These improved results stem in part from contracts negotiated in recent years and other growth initiatives for this business.

這些業績的改善部分源自於近年來簽訂的合約以及該業務的其他成長舉措。

Our contract mining segment is our growth platform for mining, and we continue to add long-term contracts to its expanding portfolio.

我們的合約採礦業務是我們採礦業務的成長平台，我們不斷在其不斷擴大的業務組合中增加長期合約。

We provide contract mining services for several of the Top 10 US producers of aggregates, and our expanding pipeline of potential new deals is strong. We believe this positions our contract mining segment as a core driver of future growth.

我們為美國十大骨材生產商中的幾家提供合約採礦服務，我們不斷擴大的潛在新交易管道實力雄厚。我們相信這將使我們的合約採礦業務成為未來成長的核心驅動力。

Just last week, North American Mining executed a multi-year contract to provide dragline services for an embankment dam construction project in Palm Beach County, Florida. That is expected to be accreted to earnings beginning in Q2 2026.

就在上週，北美礦業公司簽署了一份多年期合同，為佛羅裡達州棕櫚灘縣的一個堤壩建設項目提供挖掘機服務。預計這將從 2026 年第二季開始計入收益。

We are excited about this contract as it advances our growth into large scale infrastructure projects. It also provides an opportunity to showcase the efficiency and environmental advantages of the new electric drive MTech draglines, a key factor in our selection for the project.

我們對這份合約感到非常興奮，因為它推動了我們向大型基礎設施專案領域的成長。這也提供了一個機會來展示新型電動驅動 MTech 拉鏟的效率和環保優勢，這是我們選擇 MTech 拉鏟的關鍵因素。

These new MTech draglines enhance efficiency and up time for our customers. We're an exclusive dealer for MTech draglines in all but two US states.

這些新型的MTech挖掘裝載機提高了我們客戶的效率和設備正常運作時間。我們是除美國兩個州以外所有州 MTech 挖掘機的獨家經銷商。

Turning to our minerals and royalties segment, Catapult completed a $4.2 million strategic acquisition in July which expands our mineral interests in the Midland Basin.

再來看我們的礦產和特許權使用費業務，Catapult 於 7 月完成了一項 420 萬美元的策略性收購，擴大了我們在米德蘭盆地的礦產權益。

The acquisition includes a mix of producing wells, as well as additional upside opportunities through future development with existing operators in that region.

此次收購包括一系列生產井，以及透過與該地區現有營運商的未來開發而獲得的額外增值機會。

The Catapult team continues to look for additional investment growth opportunities that will be accreted to earnings. Mitigation resources, a strong reputation, and clear competitive strengths are supporting continued expansion into new markets.

Catapult 團隊將持續尋找能夠增加收益的額外投資成長機會。緩解資源、良好的聲譽和明顯的競爭優勢正在支持公司繼續向新市場擴張。

Although the business continues to be variable in performance due to permit and project timing, it is expected to achieve full year profitability in 2026 and more consistent results over time as new projects are secured. Overall, I believe we are well positioned for meaningful growth.

儘管由於許可證和專案時間表等原因，公司業績仍存在波動，但預計到 2026 年將實現全年盈利，並且隨著新專案的獲得，業績將隨著時間的推移而更加穩定。總的來說，我相信我們已經做好了實現有意義成長的充分準備。

Our business model is built on long-term contracts and investments, delivering strong earnings and steady cash flows that will help us deliver compounding annuity-like returns over time.

我們的商業模式建立在長期合約和投資之上，帶來強勁的收益和穩定的現金流，這將幫助我們隨著時間的推移實現類似複利年金的回報。

We followed this approach over the last decade, and momentum continues to build. That's why I'm confident in these businesses and our ability to deliver solid 2025 fourth quarter operating results with continued progress into 2026 and beyond.

過去十年我們一直堅持這種方法，而且這種勢頭還在不斷增強中。正因如此，我對這些業務以及我們實現 2025 年第四季穩健經營業績並持續推進至 2026 年及以後的能力充滿信心。

Our long-term strategy is laid out in our latest investor presentation. A copy of that presentation is on our website, along with a recording from the end of August when we attended an investor conference in Chicago. In this presentation, we explained how we have built a portfolio of strong businesses focused on compounding growth, and we describe our strategies for achieving our long-term target of $150 million of annual EBITDA in the next 5 to 7 years. If you've not seen that presentation, I encourage you to review it after this call. With that, I'll turn the call over to Eliz to provide a more detailed view of our financial results at Outlook.

我們的長期策略已在最新的投資者報告中闡述。該簡報的副本已發佈在我們的網站上，同時還有 8 月底我們在芝加哥參加投資者會議時的錄音。在本次演講中，我們闡述了我們如何建立以複合成長為核心的強大業務組合，並介紹了我們為實現未來 5 至 7 年內每年 EBITDA 達到 1.5 億美元的長期目標而製定的策略。如果你還沒看過那份簡報，我建議你在通話結束後看一下。接下來，我將把電話交給 Eliz，讓她更詳細地介紹 Outlook 的財務表現。

Thank you, JC. I'll start with some high level comments about our consolidated third quarter financial results compared to 2024. Then I'll discuss the results at our individual segments. Consolidated revenues were $76.6 million up 24% year over year, while gross profit of $10 million improved 38%.

謝謝你，JC。首先，我將就我們第三季綜合財務表現與 2024 年的比較做一些概括性的評論。然後我將逐一討論我們各部分的調查結果。合併收入為 7,660 萬美元，年增 24%；毛利為 1,000 萬美元，較去年同期成長 38%。

While consolidated earnings improved sequentially, as JC mentioned, they decreased compared with the prior year third quarter due to the 2024 $13.6 million benefit for business interruption insurance recoveries. Our third quarter 2025operating profit was $6.8 million down from $19.7 million last year.

正如 JC 所提到的，雖然綜合收益環比有所改善，但由於 2024 年可獲得 1360 萬美元的業務中斷保險賠償，因此與上年第三季度相比有所下降。我們2025年第三季的營業利潤為680萬美元，低於去年的1,970萬美元。

Excluding the insurance recovery income, the underlying consolidated operational performance overall was stronger, with a net improvement in operating results. Substantial year over year operating profit improvements in our contract mining and minerals and royalties segments more than offset lower results in the utility coal mining segment and an increase in unallocated expenses. We reported third quarter 2025 net income of $13.3 million or $1.78 per share, versus $15.6 million or $2.14 per share in 2024.

剔除保險賠償收入後，整體合併經營績效表現強勁，經營績效淨改善。合約採礦和礦產及特許權使用費業務部門的營業利潤同比大幅增長，足以抵消公用事業煤礦開採業務部門業績下滑和未分配費用增加的影響。我們公佈了 2025 年第三季淨收入為 1,330 萬美元，即每股 1.78 美元，而 2024 年同期淨收入為 1,560 萬美元，即每股 2.14 美元。

Significant favorable tax effects in the current quarter help minimize the decline in net income. EBITDA was $12.5 million versus $25.7 million for the same period last year.

本季顯著的稅收優惠有助於最大限度地減少淨收入的下降。EBITDA 為 1,250 萬美元，而去年同期為 2,570 萬美元。

Moving to the individual segments. At the utility coal mining segment, the decline in operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA was primarily driven by the 2024 insurance recoveries that I've just mentioned. The underlying Mississippi Lignite Mining Company business results were also affected by a reduced contractually determined per ton sales price in 2025.

接下來進入各個部分。在公用事業煤炭開採部門，營業利潤和部門調整後的 EBITDA 下降主要是由於我剛才提到的 2024 年保險賠償金所致。密西西比褐煤礦業公司的基本業務表現也受到 2025 年合約規定的每噸銷售價格降低的影響。

Looking ahead, we anticipate steady customer demand for the remainder of 2025 and in 2026 at our unconsolidated mining operations. At Mississippi Lignite Mining Company, fourth quarter 2025 results are expected to improve over 2024 due to operational efficiencies. However, this improvement is not expected to offset the effect of the reduction in the 2025 contractually determined per ton sales price, causing Mississippi lignite mining companies and the utility coal mining segment's 2025 full year results to decline compared with 2024.

展望未來，我們預計在 2025 年剩餘時間和 2026 年，我們未合併的採礦業務將保持穩定的客戶需求。由於營運效率的提高，密西西比褐煤礦業公司預計 2025 年第四季的業績將比 2024 年有所改善。然而，預計這一改善不會抵消 2025 年合約確定的每噸銷售價格下降的影響，導緻密西西比褐煤礦業公司和公用事業煤炭開採部門 2025 年全年業績與 2024 年相比下降。

We expect improving profitability in 2026 driven by anticipated improvements at Mississippi Lignite Mining Company in both sales price and cost per ton delivered, particularly if the customer's power plant is able to operate more consistently and formula-based pricing improves as expected.

我們預計，在密西西比褐煤礦業公司銷售價格和每噸交付成本預期改善的推動下，2026 年盈利能力將有所提高，特別是如果客戶的發電廠能夠更穩定地運行，並且基於公式的定價如預期般改善的話。

In the contract mining segment, revenues, net of reimbursement costs rose 22%, driven by higher customer demand and increased part sales. Improved margins at the mining operations, an increase in part sales and lower operating expenses led to significant increases in both operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA.

在合約採礦領域，扣除補償成本後的收入成長了 22%，這主要得益於客戶需求增加和零件銷售成長。採礦業務利潤率的提高、零件銷售額的增加以及營運費用的降低，使得營業利潤和分部調整後的 EBITDA 均大幅成長。

Operational efficiencies partly offset by elevated operating expenses are expected to lead to improved 2025 fourth quarter profits in the contact mining segment, with momentum accelerating into 2026. These factors combined with earnings from the new contract JC mentioned are expected to lead to a significant increase in year over year results.

營運效率的提高部分抵消了營運費用的增加，預計 2025 年第四季度接觸式採礦業務的利潤將有所改善，並且這一勢頭將在 2026 年加速發展。這些因素，再加上JC提到的新合約帶來的收益，預計將導致業績年增。

At the minerals and royalties segment, operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA increased year over year, primarily due to an improvement in earnings from an equity investment. And increased royalty revenues mainly driven by higher natural gas prices. Looking forward, minerals and royalties operating profit and segment adjusted EBITDA for the 2025 4th quarter are expected to decrease compared with 2024, primarily driven by current market expectations for natural gas and oil prices, as well as development and production assumptions.

在礦產和特許權使用費業務板塊，營業利潤和板塊調整後的 EBITDA 年成長，主要原因是股權投資帶來的收益改善。天然氣價格上漲是導致特許權使用費收入增加的主要原因。展望未來，受當前市場對天然氣和石油價格的預期以及開發和生產假設的影響，預計 2025 年第四季度礦產和特許權使用費的營業利潤和分部調整後的 EBITDA 將比 2024 年有所下降。

While fourth quarter 2025 results are projected to decline, full year operating profit is expected to increase over 2024, excluding a $4.5 million gain on sale recognized in the 2024 second quarter.

儘管預計 2025 年第四季業績將有所下降，但全年營業利潤預計將比 2024 年有所增長，不包括 2024 年第二季確認的 450 萬美元出售收益。

In 2026, operating profit is expected to increase modestly over 2025 as income from Catapult's newer investment is expected to be mostly offset by reductions in earnings from legacy assets. Overall, we anticipate consolidated operating profit for the 2025 fourth quarter to be comparable to the prior year quarter. Full year operating profit will be lower than 2024, due in part to the 2025 2 quarter breakeven results.

預計 2026 年營業利潤將比 2025 年略有增長，因為 Catapult 新投資帶來的收入預計將被傳統資產收益的減少所抵消。整體而言，我們預計 2025 年第四季的合併營業利潤將與去年同期持平。全年營業利潤將低於 2024 年，部分原因是 2025 年第二季達到損益兩平。

We're also terminating our pension plan during the fourth quarter, which will simplify our financial structure going forward. While the plan is overfunded, the termination will trigger a non-cash settlement charge. The pension settlement charge and lower operating profit are expected to lead to a substantially a substantial year over year decrease in net income and EBITDA compared with the 2024, 4th quarter and full year. We expect meaningful year over year improvements in both operating profit and net income in 2026.

我們將在第四季度終止退休金計劃，這將簡化我們未來的財務結構。雖然該計劃資金充足，但終止將觸發非現金結算費用。預計退休金結算費用和較低的營業利潤將導致淨收入和 EBITDA 與 2024 年第四季和全年相比大幅同比下降。我們預計 2026 年營業利潤和淨利潤都將實現顯著的同比增長。

From a liquidity standpoint, at September 30th, we had total debt outstanding of $80.2 million down from $95.5 million at June 30th and $99.5 million at December 31, 2024. Our total liquidity was $152 million which consisted of $52.7 million of cash and $99.3 million of availability under our revolving credit facility.

從流動性角度來看，截至 9 月 30 日，我們的未償債務總額為 8,020 萬美元，低於 6 月 30 日的 9,550 萬美元和 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 9,950 萬美元。我們的總流動資金為 1.52 億美元，其中包括 5,270 萬美元現金和 9,930 萬美元循環信貸額度。

During the quarter, we paid $1.9 million in dividends, and as of September 30th, 2025, we had $7.8 million remaining under our $20 million share repurchase program that expires at the end of 2025.

本季度，我們支付了 190 萬美元的股息，截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日，我們 2000 萬美元的股票回購計畫（將於 2025 年底到期）還剩下 780 萬美元。

We are forecasting up to $44 million in capital spending for the remainder of this year and up to $70 million in 2026. Most of this is earmarked for new business development. As our returns from previous investments start to materialize, we expect cash flows to improve over the prior year. In 2026, we expect cash flows to be comparable to 2025.

我們預計今年剩餘時間的資本支出將達到 4,400 萬美元，2026 年將達到 7,000 萬美元。其中大部分將用於新業務拓展。隨著先前投資的回報開始顯現，我們預計現金流將比前一年有所改善。我們預計 2026 年的現金流將與 2025 年相當。

With that, I'll hand it back to JC for closing remarks.

接下來，我將把發言權交還給JC，請他作總結發言。

Thanks, Eliz. To wrap up, I have a lot of confidence in our trajectory and our future. We're operating in an increasingly favorable environment. There's strong and growing demand for energy and for the products and services that we provide. Recent government support is also helping to strengthen all of our businesses. I believe the building blocks for durable compounding growth at NACCO are firmly in place.

謝謝你，伊麗莎白。總而言之，我對我們的發展方向和未來充滿信心。我們正處於一個越來越有利的經營環境。市場對能源以及我們提供的產品和服務有著強勁且不斷增長的需求。近期政府的支持也有助於增強我們所有企業的實力。我認為 NACCO 實現持久複合成長的基礎已經穩固到位。

Our team is focused on execution, operational discipline, and driving long-term returns for shareholders. We remain confident in our ability to deliver sound fourth quarter 2025 operating results with momentum building as we move into 2026. With that, we'll now turn to any questions you may have.

我們的團隊專注於執行、營運紀律，並為股東創造長期回報。我們仍然有信心在 2025 年第四季取得良好的經營業績，隨著進入 2026 年，這種勢頭將會越來越強。接下來，我們將回答大家可能會提出的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Our first question comes from the line of Doug Weiss with DSW Investments.

我們的第一個問題來自 DSW Investments 的 Doug Weiss。

Hi, good morning.

您好，早安。

So congrats on a good quarter. I guess starting with the contract mining segment.

恭喜你本季業績出色。我想應該先從合約挖礦領域開始。

If I just look in your financial filings you described about $200 million of asset value to that segment, so it looks like at the moment the ROIC is a little below your targets of mid-teens ROIC, is that a function of how the contracts were priced historically and going forward you've made changes that will address that, or are there other factors you would point to?

如果我只查看您的財務文件，您提到該業務板塊的資產價值約為 2 億美元，因此目前看來，該業務板塊的 ROIC 略低於您設定的 15% 左右的目標 ROIC，這是由於合約的歷史定價方式造成的，並且您已做出調整來解決這個問題，還是還有其他因素需要考慮？

Good question. I would say that there's a little bit of call it timing. There's both past and future in there. You've got assets, that are attributed to, projects that we're working on contracts we've got that are, fully operational and delivering, full levels of profitability. There's also assets in that segment. With respect to things that are yet to deliver, we talked about the long-term nature of these projects, and they tend to be invested and then harvest kind of projects where if we do put capital up front, it's because we're going to earn returns later one place I would point in the contract mining segment is the Sawtooth mine in northern Nevada, where we've agreed to commit, some of the initial capital for equipment.

問得好。我覺得這其中有點時機上的因素。那裡既有過去，也有未來。你們擁有資產，這些資產歸屬於我們正在進行的項目，我們簽訂的合約也已全面投入營運並交付成果，實現了全面的獲利水準。該領域也有一些資產。對於尚未交付的項目，我們討論了這些項目的長期性，它們往往屬於投資後收穫型項目。如果我們前期投入資金，是因為我們以後會獲得回報。在合約採礦領域，我想指出的一個例子是內華達州北部的鋸齒礦，我們已經同意投入一些初始資金用於設備。

We get repaid for that over time. But you know that project isn't going to really fire up and start delivering full levels of profitability until I think end of 2027 is when we expect to start delivering lithium, 28, 29, beyond that this is going to be a great project for us.

隨著時間的推移，我們會得到回報。但你知道，這個專案要到 2027 年底才能真正啟動並開始實現全面盈利，我們預計那時才能開始交付鋰，28、29，之後這將是我們一個很棒的專案。

So some of the capital that you're seeing in that in that total asset. Number includes things like that. I mentioned Sawtooth. It's not the only one. And the other one I'd point out is, we just, yesterday, was it yesterday, we released the announcement about the failed project Tuesday, 2 days ago already, we announced, issued a press release for a new project that we signed up in, Florida which we mentioned in our comments, we've got some capital committed there as well.

所以，您在總資產中看到的某些資本就包含在其中。數字包含諸如此類的內容。我提到了鋸齒波。這並非唯一一起。還有一點我想指出，就在昨天，也就是兩天前，我們發布了關於週二項目失敗的公告，之後我們又發布了一份新聞稿，宣布了我們在佛羅裡達州簽約的一個新項目，我們在評論中也提到過，我們在那裡也投入了一些資金。

And you know that's going to start delivering profitability, early next year. So, it's a bit of a mismatch between assets that are there and the and the current profitability of the business. In all honestly that's a given the way we're growing the business and continuing to grow the business with these long-term projects, I think there will probably always be a bit of this mismatch in those metrics when you look at them, purely on a period basis. Eliz, do you have anything you'd add to that? No.

你知道，這筆收入將在明年初開始產生獲利。所以，現有資產與企業目前的獲利能力之間存在一些不匹配。說實話，鑑於我們發展業務的方式以及我們透過這些長期專案持續發展業務，我認為，如果你僅僅從週期性的角度來看待這些指標，那麼這些指標之間可能總是會存在一些不匹配。伊莉莎白，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？不。

I think that is a good description.

我認為這個描述很貼切。

Okay, that's helpful.

好的，這很有幫助。

It does, and then you've traditionally done, dragline work, but you've Sawtooth, I believe, is surface work and.

確實如此，然後你傳統上會進行挖掘機作業，但我相信，鋸齒形挖掘機是地面作業。

I'm curious, are the economics any different, as you move outside of dragline and do you have a desire to, do you have a preference between, those types of projects?

我很好奇，如果跳出挖土機的範疇，經濟效益是否會有所不同？您是否有興趣或偏好參與其他類型的專案？

Well, let me get to the preference piece at the end because I got to think about that. So, the contract mining segment is really mining services, for things that are not coal related to energy generation.

好吧，關於偏好方面，我得好好想想，所以就放在最後再說吧。所以，合約採礦領域其實是採礦服務，但提供的服務與煤炭發電無關。

And you're right, there's one piece of the business, 15 years ago we called it Florida dragline operations, and it was using draglines to mine aggregates, that were underwater for aggregate producers. Over the last 10 years we've been expanding that, but really we can kind of do any kind of mining when you think about the very comprehensive scope of what we do in our coal mining operation.

你說得對，這其中有一部分業務，15 年前我們稱之為佛羅裡達拉鏟作業，它是用拉鏟挖掘水下的骨料，供骨料生產商使用。在過去 10 年裡，我們一直在擴大這項業務，但實際上，考慮到我們在煤礦開採業務中所做的非常全面的工作範圍，我們幾乎可以進行任何類型的採礦。

We can run drag lines. We can do truck shovel operations for people. We run Verkin surface miners, and as you get to Sawtooth, we're going to run, the entire mine. There's no drag line at Sawtooth, and there won't be, but it's much more akin to one of our surface mines where we're doing everything from start to finish with respect to the mining.

我們可以運行拖線。我們可以為人們提供卡車鏟運服務。我們經營 Verkin 露天採礦機，到了 Sawtooth 礦區，我們將開採整個礦井。Sawtooth 沒有拖拉機，以後也不會有，但它更像是我們的露天礦，我們從頭到尾自己完成採礦的所有環節。

That's different than the dragline operations where we, we're just running a single piece of equipment, we're really happy to deliver whatever kind of services a customer needs really our preference is that we find a partner that's a good long-term partner where we can really be an integrated part of their operations.

這與我們只操作一台設備的挖土機作業不同，我們非常樂意提供客戶所需的任何類型的服務，我們更傾向於找到一個良好的長期合作夥伴，讓我們能夠真正成為他們營運中不可或缺的一部分。

When you think of all of those things that we do in the contract mining segment. We're part and parcel of what happens with each customer's, project, and you know if that's running a dragline that's fine if it's running you know lots of equipment that's fine too I would say that you know the more work we do at a given location, the more opportunities we have to get paid for our service since we really are at the end of the day a service company, but you know it's really more about finding the right partners and the right projects than having a strong preference for one model over the other. Happy to grow in any way.

當你想到我們在合約挖礦領域所做的所有事情。我們是每個客戶專案不可或缺的一部分，無論是操作挖土機或操作其他各種設備，我們都能勝任。我想說的是，我們在某個地點的工作越多，我們獲得服務報酬的機會就越多，因為我們歸根結底是一家服務公司。但更重要的是找到合適的合作夥伴和合適的項目，而不是對某種模式有強烈的偏好。樂於以任何方式成長。

I would also add that our fee would be commensurate if we bring capital to the table with. Structure our fee to cover the cost of that capital.

我還要補充一點，如果我們能帶來資金，我們的費用也會隨之提高。我們的收費標準應足以涵蓋這筆資金成本。

That's fair. If it we're operating somebody else's equipment, we're going to have a lower fee there if we bring capital. Obviously we need to be compensated for the capital. We're bringing good point.

這很合理。如果我們操作的是別人的設備，如果我們自備資金，那麼我們的費用就會更低。顯然，我們需要獲得資金補償。我們提出的觀點很有道理。

Right, I mean in terms of your new business development.

對，我是指就你的新業務拓展而言。

Do you have a sales force that you know like your typical person out there in the field, are they fo do you have people who are entirely focused on aggregate and people who are focused on, non-aggregate opportunities, or does everyone sort of cover everything?

你們的銷售團隊是否像典型的外勤人員一樣，你們是否有專門負責整體銷售機會的人員，以及專門負責非整體銷售機會的人員，還是每個人都負責所有方面？

We operate with sort of a one team approach, very much a one team approach, so anybody that's out in the business development effort, knows that they have specific things that they can offer as well as comprehend comprehensive things they can offer, because, as a good example.

我們採用一種團隊協作的方式，非常注重團隊協作，因此任何參與業務拓展工作的人都知道他們能夠提供具體的東西，並且了解他們能夠提供全面的東西，舉個例子來說。

You know this failed project we just signed up in Florida we're going to be operating draglines there to build this embankment, but to the extent that you know that project needs assistance or, wants advice from any other part of the business, we'll be there in a heartbeat no matter whether they're in the environmental part of the business and mitigation resources or, an expert from North American coal.

你知道，我們剛剛在佛羅裡達州簽約的那個失敗的項目，我們將在那裡使用挖掘機建造堤壩，但如果你知道該項目需要幫助或需要公司其他部門的建議，無論他們是負責環境和緩解資源的部門，還是北美煤炭行業的專家，我們都會立即前往。

So, our business development people really are very well informed and well educated about the range of capabilities that we have, and, we approach each project, and each potential cost with kind of a it can be specific or it can be very broad in terms of what they need.

因此，我們的業務拓展人員對我們擁有的各種能力非常了解，並且接受過良好的教育。我們對待每個項目和每個潛在成本，都會根據他們的需求採取不同的策略，可以是具體的，也可以是非常廣泛的。

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

Sorry just one more thing on that we think that that approach, helps us identify and secure more projects than if we're very specific. I don't really think of any of our people as salesmen given the long-term nature of it. I think it's more like business development, but we believe that if they're if they're focusing broadly on solutions that we can provide for potential customers we're more likely to come up with success as opposed to having somebody focused on one specific area.

抱歉，關於這一點還有一點需要說明。我們認為，與目標非常具體相比，這種方法有助於我們識別和獲得更多的項目。考慮到這項工作的長期性，我並不認為我們團隊裡的任何人是銷售人員。我認為這更像是業務拓展，但我們相信，如果他們能夠廣泛關注我們可以為潛在客戶提供的解決方案，那麼我們更有可能取得成功，而不是讓某個人專注於某個特定領域。

And they might not be addressing the larger opportunities that might reside with that potential customer.

他們可能沒有意識到潛在客戶身上蘊藏的更大機會。

I mean, it's so if you were to just look out 5 years from today you're Predominantly aggregate mining plus sawtooth and then, you had the phosphate, Opportunity and this new opportunity and maybe there are others that that I'm not aware of but you know if you look 5 to 10 years from now, would you see the business is more diversified or would you still see aggregates as the predominant end customer?

我的意思是，如果你展望未來 5 年，你會發現主要業務是骨料開採和鋸齒狀礦山開採，然後還有磷酸鹽礦山開採的機會，以及這個新的機會，也許還有其他我不知道的機會。但你知道，如果你展望未來 5 到 10 年，你認為業務會更加多元化，還是骨材仍然是主要的終端客戶？

Well, you're really talking about the pie chart of what's the mix of business 5,10 years from now, the pie chart's going to be a lot bigger. We're going to have a lot more projects, given that the opportunities that we're seeing on the horizon, and I would just add that you know as we expand the areas of the country where we operate and we expand the range of equipment and the customers we have, well, that just creates more opportunities to touch people and get to know people in various areas, so we're going to see an increasing range of opportunities just because we're operating in more areas that the aggregates piece is going to continue to be a substantial part of the business.

其實你在談論未來 5 年、10 年的商業組合圓餅圖，到時候餅圖會大得多。鑑於我們目前看到的機遇，我們將開展更多項目。此外，隨著我們業務範圍的擴大，設備種類和客戶數量的增加，我們將有更多機會接觸和了解不同領域的人。因此，由於我們的業務遍及更多地區，骨材業務仍將是公司業務的重要組成部分，我們將迎來更多機會。

We operate equipment for some of the very largest aggregates producers in the United States, and we continue to find new business for them. So that's going to continue to grow. I also think that we're going to continue to find more opportunities, perhaps even an increasing pace of new opportunities that are broader than just mining aggregates for aggregates production. You look at the failed contract.

我們為美國一些最大的骨料生產商經營設備，並且我們不斷為他們尋找新的業務。所以這個數字還會繼續增加。我也認為我們將繼續發現更多機會，甚至可能以更快的速度發現新的機會，這些機會的範圍不僅限於開採骨材用於骨材生產。你看看那份失敗的合約。

It’s kind of got 1 ft in both camps because in one respect we're going to use a dragline to excavate aggregates, but the aggregate's going to be used to build this embankment, and it's really more of a civil earthworks project than it is delivering aggregates to aggregates producer that's selling them for, construction and cement and other things. So that's introducing a new market to us that we're very excited about.

它有點像是在兩個陣營中各佔 1 英尺，因為一方面我們將使用拉鏟挖掘機來挖掘骨料，但這些骨料將用於建造這個堤壩，而且它實際上更像是一個土木工程項目，而不是向骨料生產商運送骨料，然後由生產商將其出售用於建築、水泥和其他用途。所以，這為我們開拓了一個全新的市場，我們對此感到非常興奮。

This happens to be a similar to project that we'll use as a dragline, but we now have our toe in a market where we could put the full range of skills that we have to work and find new opportunities. So 5, I mean I've got actually a fair amount of confidence that 5 to 10 years from now.

這恰好與我們將要用作拉線機的項目類似，但我們現在已經涉足一個市場，我們可以在這裡充分發揮我們所擁有的各種技能，並尋找新的機會。所以，5，我的意思是，我對未來5到10年確實相當有信心。

You're going to see a lot more things inside this contract mining business that we're doing today, but I still think the limestone business is going to be a very important piece of that given the strength of the customers that we work with.

你會看到我們今天所從事的合約採礦業務中涉及更多方面，但考慮到我們合作客戶的實力，我仍然認為石灰石業務將是其中非常重要的一部分。

Okay, sounds good. Let's see on the utility, pole segment, you've had this, pricing agreement that has pressured this year's results in the case it describes what sounds like a similar contractual structure in the unconsolidated operations. I'm just curious.

好的，沒問題。讓我們來看看公用事業和電線桿業務方面的情況，你們已經達成了一項定價協議，該協議給今年的業績帶來了壓力，因為該協議描述的似乎是非合併業務中類似的合約結構。我只是好奇而已。

Obviously those are doing well, so I, I'm just curious how those two contracts differ and if there's any risk on the.

顯然這些合約都運作良好，所以我很好奇這兩份合約有何不同，以及是否有任何風險。

The difference between the unconsolidated mines and (inaudible)

非整合礦山與整合礦山之間的區別（聽不清楚）

Entirely different contract structures. The unconsolidated mine mines are purely fee for service. The customers pay 100% of the costs at a mine. And they, provide all the capital, in one form or another, either through guaranteeing loans or, funding us directly, and we collect a fee for every ton of coal that we deliver. So it's purely a service business at the MLMC Mississippi Lignite Mining Company, Red Hills Mine, that is a that's a more traditional contract generally.

完全不同的合約結構。未整合的礦山完全是按服務收費的。礦山的所有成本都由客戶承擔。他們以各種形式提供所有資金，無論是透過擔保貸款還是直接資助我們，而我們則按交付的每一噸煤炭收取費用。所以，MLMC密西西比褐煤礦業公司紅山礦純粹是一家服務型企業，這通常是一種更傳統的合約模式。

We own all the capital, we pay all the costs where it's a little different than a typical mining contract is the price that we sell the coal for is not market price, it's a price that's determined by a contractual formula, and this formula was devised in 1994, 1995, long before any of us were involved.

我們擁有全部資本，我們支付全部成本。與典型的採礦合約略有不同的是，我們出售煤炭的價格不是市場價格，而是由合約公式確定的價格。這個公式是在 1994 年、1995 年制定的，遠在我們任何人參與之前。

It's got very particular mechanics with respect to how we are able to charge for the coal that we deliver related to the change in indices, a basket of indices over time that reflect inputs that are used in mining think about things like diesel fuel and tires and labor.

就我們如何根據指數的變化來收取我們交付的煤炭費用而言，它有非常特殊的機制。這些指數是一籃子隨時間變化的指數，反映了採礦中使用的投入，例如柴油、輪胎和勞動力。

Set of indices that match those things and you look how those change over time, both over a 1 year and 5-year period and then you do a bunch of math and we're going through a period right now where if you think about 5 years ago, right, 5 years ago was November of 2020, we were going through all the whipsaws of index indices related to COVID.

一組與這些事物相符的指數，然後觀察它們隨時間的變化，包括 1 年和 5 年的周期，然後進行大量的數學計算。我們現在正經歷一個時期，如果你想想 5 年前，對吧，5 年前是 2020 年 11 月，我們經歷了與 COVID 相關的各種指數的劇烈波動。

And so we're seeing, the 5 year look back piece of the formula sort of jerking us around at the same time we got, lower diesel prices. So, it's an entirely different contract structure. I would point out that look, the operating profit can get beat up by this. I tend to look at EBITDA for this contract. Because we, even though we've spent a lot of capital in the past, That contract expires in 2,032, so we're really not putting a lot more capital in there so if you even EBITDA with respect to that mind and actually the whole segment is a better metric for me to watch.

因此，我們看到，公式中 5 年的回顧期部分在某種程度上讓我們感到困惑，同時，柴油價格卻下降了。所以，這是一種完全不同的合約結構。我想指出的是，這種情況可能會嚴重影響營業利潤。我傾向於關注這份合約的 EBITDA。因為儘管我們過去投入了大量資金，但該合約將於 2032 年到期，所以我們實際上不會再投入太多資金，因此，即使考慮到 EBITDA，實際上整個部門的 EBITDA 對我來說也是一個更好的指標。

Right, no, that makes sense. What I was curious about is it sounds like the unconsolidated is just a fairly straightforward inflation adjuster.

對，沒錯，這樣說得通。我好奇的是，聽起來未合併通膨率似乎只是一個相當簡單的通膨調整指標。

In other words, you just, in terms of what fees you pay.

換句話說，就你支付的費用而言。

It's CPI and PPI.

這是消費者物價指數（CPI）和生產者物價指數（PPI）。

For the most part I think maybe there's some other indices, but it's fee basically goes up by CPI and PPI.

我認為大部分情況下可能還有其他指數，但它的費用基本上是隨消費者物價指數 (CPI) 和生產者物價指數 (PPI) 上漲的。

Okay, got it.

好的，明白了。

You had a little bit of a larger than normal unallocated expense line this quarter. Could you say why that was up?

本季您的未分配費用項目略高於正常水準。你能說說為什麼會這樣嗎？

Few things in there that are causing that increase, mainly employee related, and there's two components to that we had higher medical expenses and we also had, our share based compensation, we had an increase in our share price if you look year over year.

導致成長的原因有很多，主要與員工有關，其中有兩個面向：一是醫療費用增加，二是股票選擇權激勵措施，如果按年來看，我們的股價也有所上漲。

So when you include that component into our incentive compensation calculation. Purely because of the increase in share price we're going to have a higher incentive compensation expense and we also had higher business development expenses running through the quarter.

所以，當你把這個因素納入我們的激勵薪酬計算時。純粹由於股價上漲，我們將面臨更高的激勵性薪酬支出，而且本季我們的業務發展支出也更高。

Okay.

好的。

Are you still moving ahead with your Solar project?

您的太陽能專案還在推進中嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes, we're, we are working, pretty diligently right now on, getting those projects that are in the pipeline safe harbor, for, tax credit purposes, but we're working on those very diligently.

是的，我們目前正在非常努力地工作，爭取讓那些正在籌備中的項目獲得稅收抵免方面的安全港條款，我們正在非常努力地推進這些項目。

And so it sounds like you're looking at multiple locations now for those.

聽起來你現在正在考慮多個地點。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Let's see, That might be all I had. Well, I appreciate all the good work and, it really seems like things are moving in the right direction, so thank you and talk next quarter.

嗯，也許這就是我全部的家當了。非常感謝大家的辛勤付出，而且看起來事情確實在朝著正確的方向發展，所以謝謝大家，我們下個季度再聊。

Well, we appreciate your continuing interest and your great questions.

感謝您一直以來的關注與提出的寶貴問題。

So, thanks for calling.

謝謝你的來電。

Okay.

好的。

I want no further questions.

我不想再問任何問題了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

I'll turn the call back over to Christina.

我把電話轉回給克里斯蒂娜。

All right, with that, we'll conclude. Before we do, I'd like to provide a few reminders, a replay of our call will be available online, later this morning. We'll also post a transcript on our website when it becomes available. If you do have any questions, please reach out to me. My number is in our press release, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. I'll turn it back to Tina to conclude the call.

好了，我們就到此為止。在此之前，我想提醒大家幾點，我們通話的錄音將於今天上午晚些時候在網路上提供。我們會將文字稿發佈在我們的網站上，待發布後即可查看。如果您有任何疑問，請隨時與我聯繫。我的電話號碼在新聞稿裡，祝您今天剩下的時間愉快。我把電話轉回給蒂娜，要她結束通話。

As Christina said, an audio recording of this event will be available later this evening via the NACCO replay platform. To access the platform by phone, playback ID is 7,284,609, followed by the pound key. This replay will expire on Thursday, November 13th at 11:59 p.m. Thank you for joining us today. This does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

正如克里斯蒂娜所說，本次活動的錄音將於今晚晚些時候透過 NACCO 回放平台提供。若要透過手機存取該平台，播放 ID 為 7,284,609，然後按井號鍵。本次重播將於11月13日星期四晚上11點59分過期。感謝您今天的收看。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線了。