ArcelorMittal SA (MT) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Daniel Fairclough from the ArcelorMittal Investor Relations team. Thank you very much for joining us on this call today to discuss the Third Quarter and 9 Months 2023.

謝謝。大家下午好。我是來自安賽樂米塔爾投資者關係團隊的 Daniel Fairclough。非常感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議，討論 2023 年第三季和 9 個月。

Before I hand directly to Mr. Mittal, I would like to refer you to the presentation we published this morning on our website, and in particular, draw your attention to the disclaimers on Slide #2 of that presentation.

在我直接向米塔爾先生講話之前，我想向您推薦我們今天早上在我們網站上發布的演示文稿，特別是請您注意該演示文稿第二張幻燈片上的免責聲明。

I'll now hand over to -- I now hand over the call to our Executive Chairman, Mr. Mittal.

我現在將電話交給我們的執行主席米塔爾先生。

Thank you, Daniel. Good day, and thank you for joining us today for this Q3 earnings call. I am joined today by our Chief Executive, Adit Mittal, our Chief Financial Officer, Genuino Christino; and our Executive Vice President, Brad Davey, whose responsibilities include corporate health and safety.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。美好的一天，感謝您今天參加我們的第三季財報電話會議。今天，我們的執行長 Adit Mittal 和財務長 Genuino Christino 也加入了我的行列。我們的執行副總裁 Brad Davey，其職責包括公司健康和安全。

Adit and I would not normally be present at the third quarter, but we wanted to speak with you all, given the tragic accident that took place on October 28 at our Kostenko coal mine in Kazakhstan that claimed the lives of 46 of our colleagues.

阿迪特和我通常不會出席第三季的會議，但考慮到 10 月 28 日哈薩克 Kostenko 煤礦發生的悲慘事故，導致 46 名同事喪生，我們想與大家交談。

The accident was devastating, especially for the families of the victims and also for colleagues of the disease who have lost friends and for the communities to which they will never return. It is naturally with these groups, the families, colleagues and communities where our greatest focus has been (inaudible).

這次事故是毀滅性的，特別是對於受害者家屬以及失去朋友的疾病同事以及他們永遠不會返回的社區而言。我們最關注的自然是這些團體、家庭、同事和社區（聽不清楚）。

It goes without saying that it is also a very difficult time for the company. We are a global group, but we are also a community. The pain and the anguish within the company at this terrible accident remains very raw. The outpouring of compassionate support shown by colleagues around the world for our colleagues in Kazakhstan has been a gratifying remainder of the depth of human kindness.

不言而喻，這對公司來說也是一個非常困難的時期。我們是一個全球性的團體，但我們也是一個社群。在這起可怕的事故中，公司內部仍然感到非常痛苦和痛苦。世界各地的同事對哈薩克同事所表現出的富有同情心的支持是人類仁慈深度中令人欣慰的剩餘部分。

You will want to know how did this accident happen? We are asking ourselves the same questions, and we will make sure we get answers. Answers that could help us implement the actions that will enable us to emerge stronger in the future.

您一定想知道這起事故是如何發生的？我們正在問自己同樣的問題，我們將確保得到答案。這些答案可以幫助我們採取行動，使我們在未來變得更強大。

A full review of our health and safety program, including the progress that has been made in the last 2 years as well as the areas that need to be strengthened and improved is already underway. We will ensure that whatever lessons that can be learned are learned. We will ensure that whatever aspects of our safety processes can be strengthened will be strengthened.

對我們的健康和安全計劃的全面審查，包括過去兩年的進展以及需要加強和改進的領域已經在進行中。我們將確保吸取任何可以吸取的教訓。我們將確保安全流程中任何可以加強的方面都將得到加強。

Kazakhstan has played an important role in the group since we acquired in 1995. But over the course of this year, we have been in discussions with the government of Kazakhstan about the future ownership of this asset.

自我們於 1995 年收購以來，哈薩克斯坦一直在該集團中發揮重要作用。但今年以來，我們一直在與哈薩克政府討論該資產的未來所有權。

Before the recent accident, we had signed a preliminary agreement for the government to take over the operations. We are committed to completing this transaction as soon as possible. It is important for thousands of employees that work in Temirtau and Karaganda as well as their families and communities that they have certainty and stability about the future.

在最近的事故發生之前，我們已經簽署了一份初步協議，由政府接手營運。我們致力於盡快完成此項交易。對於在鐵米爾套和卡拉幹達工作的數千名員工及其家人和社區來說，對未來有確定性和穩定性非常重要。

Our Kazakhstan operations have played an important role in this company's history. I sincerely hope they will have a long and successful future.

我們的哈薩克業務在該公司的歷史中發揮了重要作用。我真誠地希望他們有一個長久而成功的未來。

With this, I will hand over now to Adit to add some additional details on the steps we are taking from here. Thank you.

至此，我現在將移交給 Adit，以添加有關我們在此採取的步驟的一些其他詳細資訊。謝謝。

As Mr. Mittal already said, 20th of October was the saddest day in the history of ArcelorMittal. The families of our 46 colleagues have had their lives devastated. Their grief and loss are shared by all our colleagues and our communities. We know there is no adequate compensation for this loss which we're doing everything in our power to provide appropriate support.

正如米塔爾先生所說，10 月 20 日是安賽樂米塔爾歷史上最悲傷的一天。我們 46 名同事的家人的生活遭到了破壞。我們所有的同事和社區都對他們的悲痛和損失感同身受。我們知道這種損失無法得到足夠的補償，但我們正在盡一切努力提供適當的支援。

Part of this is ensuring we fulfill our basic civic responsibility to properly look after those who have lost loved ones. Even during the process of transferring ownership to the government of Kazakhstan, we will continue to provide support for our communities as they navigate this tragedy.

其中一部分是確保我們履行基本公民責任，並妥善照顧那些失去親人的人。即使在將所有權移交給哈薩克政府的過程中，我們也將繼續為我們的社區提供支持，幫助他們度過這場悲劇。

I'm sure, like me, you want to understand how this happened. We don't have all the answers today. A special commission has been initiated by the government to conduct the first phase investigation. We are cooperating fully to assist in this investigation. The commission is still taking evidence, and we expect preliminary findings to be published soon.

我相信您和我一樣想了解這是如何發生的。今天我們還沒有得到所有答案。政府已成立特別委員會進行第一階段調查。我們正全力配合協助這項調查。該委員會仍在收集證據，我們預計初步調查結果將很快公佈。

It is only in Kazakhstan that we own and operate coal mines. Nevertheless, it is only appropriate at a time like this to review safety across the group and make whatever improvements are required to ensure that every single one of ArcelorMittal's operations have 0 serious accidents.

我們僅在哈薩克擁有並經營煤礦。儘管如此，只有在這樣的時候，才應該審查整個集團的安全性，並做出必要的改進，以確保安賽樂米塔爾的每一項業務都發生零嚴重事故。

We had already launched a major step change in our safety activities at the start of 2022, when a new strategy focused on the twin pillars of risk management and cultural change was developed for group-wide implementation. You will find more detail on that strategy in the presentation and the earnings release.

2022 年初，我們已經對安全活動進行了重大變革，制定了一項專注於風險管理和文化變革兩大支柱的新策略，並在整個集團範圍內實施。您將在簡報和收益發布中找到有關該策略的更多詳細資訊。

We can see that in the steel side of the business, the step change is delivering results. Because of the efforts and commitment of our colleagues globally, this year, we have had no direct employee fatalities outside of CIS. And while we cannot yet say the same when you include contractors, we are nevertheless 40% better than the World Steel Association record.

我們可以看到，在鋼鐵業務方面，逐步變革正在帶來成果。由於我們全球同事的努力和承諾，今年，我們在 CIS 之外沒有發生直接員工死亡事件。雖然當您將承包商納入時，我們還不能說同樣的話，但我們仍然比世界鋼鐵協會的記錄好 40%。

But this was not enough to stop these accidents happening. Given where we stand today, I cannot conclude that we have every single aspect covered or that our organization is set up optimally to achieve the transformation as swiftly as we must. We need to do much more.

但這並不足以阻止這些事故的發生。考慮到我們今天的處境，我不能得出結論說我們已經涵蓋了每一個方面，或者我們的組織已經經過優化設定以盡快實現轉型。我們還需要做更多的事情。

The only appropriate course of action (inaudible) the hard look inside our group, identify the gaps that exist and strengthen our actions, processes and culture to ensure that an accident of this magnitude never happens again.

唯一適當的行動方針（聽不清楚）是認真審視我們團隊內部，找出存在的差距，加強我們的行動、流程和文化，以確保這種規模的事故不再發生。

Therefore, we're also commissioning an independent third-party comprehensive global safety audit whose key recommendations will be published in due course. We know that going forward, we will be judged more on what we do than what we say. We are committed to taking all the steps necessary to learn from the strategy ensure it is never repeated and emerged a better, safer company.

因此，我們也委託進行獨立的第三方全面的全球安全審計，其主要建議將在適當的時候發布。我們知道，展望未來，我們將更多地根據我們的行為而不是我們的言論來評判。我們致力於採取一切必要措施從該戰略中學習，確保該戰略不再重演，並成為一家更好、更安全的公司。

Genuino will now make some further remarks.

Genuino 現在將發表進一步的評論。

Thank you, Aditya. I must also begin by expressing my sincere condolences to the families and friends of our colleagues who died following the accident on the 28th of October.

謝謝你，阿迪亞。首先，我還必須向 10 月 28 日事故中喪生的同事的家人和朋友表示誠摯的哀悼。

The accidents that we have experienced in the coal mines have been deeply troubling to the company and to the Kazakh government. It's fair to say that over the course of the year, we have faced not only an increasingly difficult trade environment, but also an increasingly tense operating environment.

我們在煤礦發生的事故讓公司和哈薩克政府深感不安。可以說，這一年來，我們面臨的不僅是貿易環境日益困難，經營環境也日益緊張。

You know that on the 22nd of October, we signed a nonbinding agreement with the government of Kazakhstan to transfer the asset to the Kazakh State. Discussions have been ongoing for many months already, and it became increasingly clear that the government was again interest in only and operating this asset.

你知道，10月22日，我們與哈薩克政府簽署了一項不具約束力的協議，將資產轉移給哈薩克國家。討論已經進行了好幾個月，越來越明顯的是，政府再次只對這項資產感興趣並經營該資產。

To help you understand the performance and financial contribution of Kazakhstan to our group, we have provided some relevant information in today's earnings release and accompanying slide deck. And I hope that you will appreciate that due the ongoing negotiations, we will not be able to comment further on today's call. As soon as there is a final agreement, it will be communicated via the appropriate channels.

為了幫助您了解哈薩克對我們集團的業績和財務貢獻，我們在今天的收益發布和隨附的幻燈片中提供了一些相關資訊。我希望您能理解，由於談判正在進行，我們無法對今天的電話會議發表進一步評論。一旦達成最終協議，將透過適當的管道進行傳達。

As we have today announced our 3Q results, I will also make some comments on the financial performance, although I will keep my remarks brief. Our financial performance continues to reflect the structural improvements we have talked about in recent quarters. Despite the impacts of weaker average selling prices and seasonally lower volumes, EBITDA per tonne in quarter 3 was $136. For the first 9 months, it was $149. This compares well with the long-term history of our group, showing the benefits of our high-graded asset portfolio.

由於我們今天公佈了第三季業績，我也會對財務業績發表一些評論，儘管我的評論會很簡短。我們的財務表現繼續反映了我們最近幾季談到的結構性改善。儘管受到平均銷售價格疲軟和季節性銷售下降的影響，第三季每噸 EBITDA 仍為 136 美元。前 9 個月的價格為 149 美元。這與我們集團的長期歷史非常吻合，顯示了我們高評級資產組合的優勢。

But looking at EBITDA alone only shows part of our financial improvement. If you look at our long-term history, the average annual net income pre-exceptional items was about $2 billion. Our run rate this quarter was almost double this long-term average level. This captures the improvement in EBITDA, the much bigger contribution of our joint ventures, in particular, India and the benefits of our low-cost balance sheet.

但僅考慮 EBITDA 只能顯示我們財務狀況改善的一部分。如果你看看我們的長期歷史，不計特殊項目的平均年淨利潤約為 20 億美元。本季我們的運行率幾乎是長期平均的兩倍。這反映了 EBITDA 的改善、我們的合資企業（特別是印度）的更大貢獻以及我們低成本資產負債表的好處。

Net debt this quarter declined to $4.3 billion, and we finished the quarter with excellent liquidity of $11.8 billion. Our guidance on working capital and CapEx is unchanged. After investing $0.9 billion in working capital year-to-date, we expect this to more than reverse in the final quarter. We expect our CapEx to be in the middle of our $4.5 billion to $5 billion guidance range.

本季淨債務下降至 43 億美元，本季末我們的流動性極佳，達到 118 億美元。我們對營運資本和資本支出的指引保持不變。在今年迄今投資了 9 億美元的營運資金後，我們預計這一情況將在最後一個季度出現逆轉。我們預計我們的資本支出將在 45 億至 50 億美元指導範圍的中間。

Looking forward, quarter 4 will be impacted by the lower spread levels we have experienced in recent months, but the levels reached in recent weeks are unsustainable and supply will respond. And while the real demand environment is weak, in aggregate, inventories in the system remain low. And we have seen in recent years that when inventories are low, a shift in sentiment can quickly translate to prices.

展望未來，第四季將受到近幾個月來較低價差水準的影響，但最近幾週達到的水準是不可持續的，供應將會做出反應。儘管實際需求環境疲軟，但總體而言，系統庫存仍然較低。近年來我們已經看到，當庫存較低時，情緒的轉變可以迅速轉化為價格。

The longer-term fundamental picture remains positive. Our strong balance sheet and expectations of consistently positive free cash flow underpins the continued execution of our strategy. We will continue to invest in our operations to improve our safety and environmental performance and supply the growing needs of our customers for low carbon steel solutions.

長期基本面依然樂觀。我們強勁的資產負債表和對持續正自由現金流的預期支撐著我們策略的持續執行。我們將繼續投資我們的營運，以提高我們的安全和環境績效，並滿足客戶對低碳鋼解決方案不斷增長的需求。

We will continue to advance our strategic growth projects to support higher normalized profitability, and we will continue to implement our defined capital allocation policy, which allows us to advance our strategic and growth agendas, while consistently returning capital to shareholders through our share buybacks.

我們將繼續推進我們的策略性成長項目，以支持更高的常態化獲利能力，我們將繼續實施我們明確的資本配置政策，這使我們能夠推進我們的策略和成長議程，同時透過股票回購持續向股東返還資本。

With our opening remarks now concluded, we will now take your questions. Daniel, please go ahead.

我們的開場白已經結束，現在我們將回答你們的問題。丹尼爾，請繼續。

Thank you, Genuino. So if I can just reiterate the instructions from the operator. (Operator Instructions) We do have a number of analysts already in the queue, and we will take the first question, please, from Alain at Morgan Stanley.

謝謝你，傑努伊諾。所以我可以重複接線生的指示嗎？ （操作員說明）我們確實有一些分析師已經在隊列中，我們將回答摩根士丹利的阿蘭提出的第一個問題。

Yes. Two questions as well from my side. I'll take them one at a time. Firstly on -- a question on capital allocation to Aditya.

是的。我這邊也有兩個問題。我會一次拿一個。首先是關於 Aditya 資本分配的問題。

You seem to have posed your buyback program since August, and M&A opportunities may emerge in the current environment. If these opportunities come your way, how do you think about balance sheet capacity and the leverage that you're willing to take on in the context of your capital allocation framework? That's my first question.

您似乎從8月份就提出了回購計劃，當前環境下可能會出現併購機會。如果您遇到這些機會，您如何看待資產負債表能力以及您願意在資本配置框架中承擔的槓桿作用？這是我的第一個問題。

Excuse me. This is the operator.

打擾一下。這是操作員。

Let me start again. I think I was on mute. Yes, Alain, thank you for your question. Let me -- so I guess you guys can hear me? Operator, can you guys all hear me? So let me start again, Alain, thank you for your question.

讓我重新開始吧。我想我當時處於靜音狀態。是的，阿蘭，謝謝你的問題。讓我——所以我想你們能聽到我的聲音嗎？接線員，你們聽得到我說話嗎？所以讓我重新開始，阿蘭，謝謝你的問題。

We are very proud of our strong balance sheet. We remain very focused on retaining an investment-grade credit rating. We think they are very important strategically. And we think the capital allocation policy that we outlined over the last 2 years has worked increasingly well.

我們對我們強勁的資產負債表感到非常自豪。我們仍然非常注重保留投資級信用評級。我們認為它們在戰略上非常重要。我們認為過去兩年概述的資本配置政策效果越來越好。

In the last 2 years, we have bought back over 30% of the business. We have been able to invest in our strategic CapEx and at the same time, we've been able to grow the business. We acquired a fantastic facility in Texas, in Corpus Christi, as you know, which supports our decarb efforts. We acquired a very well-invested facility in Brazil. Both these facilities are performing well, achieving normalized EBITDA of $500 million.

在過去的兩年裡，我們回購了超過 30% 的業務。我們能夠投資策略資本支出，同時我們也能夠發展業務。如您所知，我們在德克薩斯州科珀斯克里斯蒂收購了一個出色的設施，這支持我們的脫碳工作。我們在巴西收購了一家投資非常豐富的工廠。這兩家工廠均表現良好，正常化 EBITDA 達 5 億美元。

So we believe that our strong balance sheet, the focus on retaining that, along with the capital allocation policy that we have outlined allows us to both grow the business, develop the business as well as return capital to shareholders.

因此，我們相信，我們強大的資產負債表、對保留資產負債表的關注，以及我們概述的資本配置政策，使我們能夠發展業務、發展業務，並向股東返還資本。

My second question is on Kazakhstan. I guess you mentioned you're constrained that you can say, but my question is more of an accounting one. I'm not sure if Genuino you can -- you're able to answer that.

我的第二個問題是關於哈薩克的。我想你提到你可以說的內容受到限制，但我的問題更多的是會計問題。我不確定 Genuino 是否可以——你能夠回答這個問題。

But -- are you able to give us a bit more granularity on the balance sheet impact of a potential deconsolidation of these assets? You talked about $1.8 billion of book value. I presume this could be at risk if you give away the assets. And then as an extension to this one, how much provisions and other liabilities are attached to the Kazakh assets?

但是，您能否更詳細地介紹這些資產潛在的分拆對資產負債表的影響？您談到了 18 億美元的帳面價值。我認為如果你放棄資產，這可能會面臨風險。那麼，作為這個問題的延伸，哈薩克資產有多少準備金和其他負債？

Yes. I mean, as we highlighted, we're not going to be in a position as this negotiation is happening with the government. We're not going to be able to comment much. I mean we try to provide you and -- with some more numbers for the operations better -- so that you can better understand what is the contribution of this asset to our consolidated numbers. So you have the book values there. And we will have to wait to see what is the final outcome of the negotiations before we can comment more.

是的。我的意思是，正如我們所強調的那樣，隨著與政府的談判正在進行，我們將無法處於有利地位。我們無法發表太多評論。我的意思是，我們試圖為您提供更多數字，以便更好地運營，以便您可以更好地了解該資產對我們合併數字的貢獻。所以你那裡有帳面價值。我們必須等待談判的最終結果，然後才能發表更多評論。

Understood.

明白了。

So we'll move to the next question, please, from Tristan at BNP.

那麼我們將轉向法國巴黎銀行特里斯坦提出的下一個問題。

Yes. I have two. The first one is on the U.S. market. I noticed in the slide in your presentation that you paint a pretty optimistic assessment of the demand environment there. I think you referred to a 9% upside potential for flat steel demand, which I think is more than what you have for India. So could you elaborate a bit there?

是的。我有兩個。第一個是在美國市場。我在您簡報的幻燈片中註意到您對那裡的需求環境進行了相當樂觀的評估。我認為您提到了扁鋼需求 9% 的成長潛力，我認為這比印度的成長潛力還要大。那您能詳細說明一下嗎？

And it's my understanding that higher spending in the U.S. will benefit more long steel products and flat steel, except plate. So I would like to have your thought there?

據我了解，美國的支出增加將有利於更多長材產品和扁鋼（板材除外）。所以我想聽聽你的想法？

And second, you purchased an HBI facility in Texas. You're spending more at Calvert. So how attractive is the U.S. market? And how does that fit in your capital allocation strategy? I stop there.

其次，您在德克薩斯州購買了 HBI 設施。你在卡爾弗特的花費更多。那麼美國市場到底有多大吸引力呢？這如何適合您的資本配置策略？我就停在那裡。

Sure. Tristan, thank you for the question. Maybe I'll take the second half of your -- the second question that you asked, and I'll get Genuino to revert on the first.

當然。特里斯坦，謝謝你的提問。也許我會回答你的後半部——你問的第二個問題，然後我會讓 Genuino 回覆第一個問題。

So in terms of the U.S., I must emphasize that the U.S. is one of our largest single country markets. If you exclude India, it is the largest single country market. And we have an excellent franchise business. We supply to the most demanding customers, not only from our operations in Calvert, Alabama, but from other facilities that we have in NAFTA.

所以就美國而言，我必須強調，美國是我們最大的單一國家市場之一。如果不包括印度，它是最大的單一國家市場。我們擁有出色的特許經營業務。我們不僅透過我們在阿拉巴馬州卡爾弗特的業務，而且透過我們在北美自由貿易區的其他工廠向最苛刻的客戶供貨。

We continue to invest in the U.S. As you are aware, we are finishing our electric arc furnace project at Calvert that we finish in 2024. That will strengthen the facility further and bring significant benefits to our business.

我們繼續在美國投資。如您所知，我們正在完成位於卡爾弗特的電弧爐項目，該項目將於 2024 年完成。這將進一步加強設施並為我們的業務帶來顯著的效益。

And as you mentioned, we have acquired an HBI facility in Corpus Christi, Texas. It's doing really well. It's a nameplate capacity after struggling for many, many years. It really enables us to move forward in terms of decarbonizing our business because as you are aware, HBI provides low-cost green metallics. Relatively lower carbon metallics and optionality to green it in different technologies.

正如您所提到的，我們已經在德克薩斯州科珀斯克里斯蒂收購了一家 HBI 工廠。它做得非常好。這是奮鬥了很多很多年之後的銘牌能力。它確實使我們能夠在業務脫碳方面取得進展，因為如您所知，HBI 提供低成本的綠色金屬。相對較低的碳金屬和透過不同技術實現綠色環保的選擇。

So the U.S. market remains important. We are focused on it, and I'll ask Genuino to talk to you a little bit about the growth forecasts.

因此，美國市場仍然很重要。我們專注於此，我將請 Genuino 與您談談成長預測。

Thank you, Aditya. Tristan, I think some of the numbers that you were quoting, what you see now is lag is really our projection for 2032. So then you see that we expect the demand in U.S. to grow, supported by -- as you know, we have different programs announced by the group is large, very large programs, probably totaling more than $2 trillion of investments over the next years so that will support demand for steel.

謝謝你，阿迪亞。特里斯坦，我認為你引用的一些數字，你現在看到的滯後實際上是我們對 2032 年的預測。所以你會看到，我們預計美國的需求將會增長，正如你所知，我們有該集團宣布的不同計劃都是大型、非常大的計劃，未來幾年的投資總額可能超過2兆美元，從而支持鋼鐵需求。

But if you see the level of growth in India, it's superior, right? So we are expecting that the demand in India will almost double from where we are today. So that's almost 100 million tonnes of growth, and that's why we are investing so much in India, trying to double the capacity now from the 7 million to 15 million tonnes and with some more plans ahead of us.

但如果你看看印度的成長水平，那就更優秀了，對吧？因此，我們預計印度的需求將幾乎是目前的兩倍。因此，這幾乎是 1 億噸的成長，這就是我們在印度進行大量投資的原因，試圖將產能從目前的 700 萬噸增加一倍至 1500 萬噸，我們還有更多計劃。

So when you have these volumes of investments in the U.S., I mean, all of these investments expected to happen over the next couple of years, I think it's fair to assume that everybody will benefit not only the long producers, but everybody will benefit. We will see more warehouses, more roads, more everything, right? So I would expect that the whole industry will benefit from that.

因此，當你在美國進行如此大量的投資時，我的意思是，所有這些投資預計將在未來幾年內發生，我認為可以公平地假設每個人不僅會受益於長期生產者，而且每個人都會受益。我們會看到更多的倉庫、更多的道路、更多的一切，對嗎？所以我預計整個產業都會從中受益。

All right. That's clear. And if I could just follow-up with also a high topic question. It's on China. I think the demand and export situation in China has been pretty negative this year with the real estate market normalizing. Do you believe those production and export trends are here to stay? Or is that just temporary?

好的。很清楚。如果我可以跟進一個高主題問題。是在中國。我認為，隨著房地產市場的正常化，今年中國的需求和出口情況相當消極。您認為這些生產和出口趨勢會持續下去嗎？還是這只是暫時的？

And how is the situation in our view different from 2015, '16? And what can you do to limit the negative impact on your operation? And if things were to last, would you contemplate further restructuring in Europe or Brazil that been hit by Chinese export?

我們認為情況與 2015 年、'16 有何不同？您可以採取哪些措施來限制對您營運的負面影響？如果這種情況持續下去，您是否會考慮在受到中國出口打擊的歐洲或巴西進一步重組？

Yes. Thank you, Tristan. You're right. I think we are seeing, of course, a significant increase in exports from China. We continue to believe that that's not structural. If you look at the level of profitability today in China, we believe that only a small number of companies can actually make money in this environment. Level of spreads are extremely low, too low, actually.

是的。謝謝你，特里斯坦。你說得對。當然，我認為我們看到中國的出口大幅成長。我們仍然認為這不是結構性的。如果你看看今天中國的獲利水平，我們相信只有少數公司能夠在這種環境下真正賺錢。點差水平極低，實際上太低了。

We started to see some production cuts. The September numbers show some progress. And if you see, the situation seems to some extent, pretty much what we saw in the last half of 2022 when production was really running high in the first half, and then we saw significant production cuts in the second half of 2022. And then overall for the year, the production didn't change much.

我們開始看到一些減產。九月份的數據顯示出一些進展。如果你看到的話，這種情況在某種程度上似乎與我們在 2022 年下半年看到的情況差不多，當時上半年的產量確實很高，然後我們在 2022 年下半年看到了大幅減產。然後整體而言，今年產量沒有太大變化。

We'll see now what happens remainder of the year. Clearly, in this environment, it's tough, right, for companies to make money. So we don't believe that China wants to go back to the 2015, '16 situation. As you can recall that trigger a number of our trade actions, we will see finally what happens.

現在我們將看看今年剩餘時間會發生什麼。顯然，在這種環境下，公司想要賺錢是很困難的，對吧。所以我們不認為中國想回到2015年、16年的情況。正如您所記得的，這引發了我們的一些貿易行動，我們將看看最終會發生什麼。

Our assets, I mean, you mentioned Brazil, a very -- assets are of very high quality. They are cost competitive. And I'm sure we're going to be in a position to continue to service those markets.

我的意思是，您提到了巴西，我們的資產品質非常高。它們具有成本競爭力。我確信我們將能夠繼續為這些市場提供服務。

So we'll now move to the next question from Patrick at Bank of America.

現在我們將討論美國銀行帕特里克提出的下一個問題。

I just have two very quick follow-up questions from the previous question. So you did say in terms of balance sheet strength, you want to keep investment-grade balance sheet, a strong balance sheet. Just remind us, is there an absolute net debt number? Should we still think about $7 billion is the -- as the ceiling there?

我只有上一個問題的兩個非常快速的後續問題。因此，您確實說過，就資產負債表實力而言，您希望維持投資等級資產負債表，也就是強勁的資產負債表。請提醒我們，有絕對的淨債務數字嗎？我們是否仍應考慮 70 億美元作為上限？

And then the second follow-up question is just -- if I look at what the government of Kazakhstan is saying around the timing of the transfer of that business, they're saying they want to get it done in November. Have you got any comments around the timing? And then I've got one other question after that, but I'll stop for the quick follow-ups.

然後第二個後續問題是 - 如果我看看哈薩克政府關於該業務轉讓時間的說法，他們說他們希望在 11 月完成這項工作。您對時間安排有什麼意見嗎？之後我還有一個問題，但我會停下來進行快速跟進。

Sure. Thank you, Patrick. Patrick, I think you heard my comments quite well. So there's not much more to add. We're very focused on our balance sheet, retaining investment-grade credit rating. And at the same time, we're very supportive and of our capital allocation policy, it has worked really well.

當然。謝謝你，派崔克。派崔克，我想你很好地聽到了我的評論。所以沒有什麼好補充的了。我們非常關注我們的資產負債表，保留投資等級信用評級。同時，我們非常支持我們的資本配置政策，效果非常好。

In terms of the net debt target, it depends on what the earnings power of the business is fundamentally. To the extent that, that changes, we will update our net debt target. But you should assume that we are focused on a strong balance sheet, investment-grade credit rating -- investment-grade credit rating as well as maintaining our capital allocation framework.

就淨債務目標而言，從根本上取決於企業的獲利能力。如果情況發生變化，我們將更新我們的淨債務目標。但你應該假設我們專注於強大的資產負債表、投資等級信用評級以及維持我們的資本配置框架。

In terms of Kazakhstan, I think Genuino talked a lot about it in his opening remarks. There's not much more to add I think all parties are working diligently to expedite the close of this transaction.

關於哈薩克，我認為傑努伊諾在開場白中談了很多。沒有什麼可補充的了，我認為各方都在努力工作，以加快這筆交易的完成。

Okay. And then my -- I suppose new question is you're saying structurally the business is more profitable and $136 a tonne, EBITDA in a very weak market is much better than previous down cycles. I suppose just thinking forward to next year, especially in Europe, autos production this year has been really strong, and it looks like a backlog of orders have coming to an end and possibly we might see sort of some contraction in autos production next year.

好的。然後我的——我想新的問題是，你說從結構上看，業務利潤更高，每噸 136 美元，EBITDA 在非常疲軟的市場中比之前的下行週期要好得多。我想，展望明年，尤其是在歐洲，今年的汽車生產非常強勁，積壓的訂單似乎已經結束，明年我們可能會看到汽車生產出現一些收縮。

Do you think this could it be -- take another leg down in terms of where that trough EBITDA is? In other words, are we being flatted by very strong autos production this year and that could weaken into next year? Or how are you thinking about the autos market for 2024?

您是否認為這可能是—就 EBITDA 的低谷位置而言，又會進一步下降？換句話說，我們是否因今年非常強勁的汽車產量而感到沮喪，而這種情況可能會在明年減弱？或者您如何看待 2024 年的汽車市場？

Yes, Patrick. Let me take this one. Well, it's really too early to talk about next year in terms of auto negotiations, in some cases, we have started discussions, but it's still early in the process. Our focus really when it comes to this contract is to make sure that we have a win-win negotiation with our customers.

是的，派崔克。讓我拿走這個。嗯，現在談論明年的汽車談判還為時過早，在某些情況下，我們已經開始討論，但現在還處於早期階段。當涉及到這份合約時，我們真正的重點是確保我們與客戶進行雙贏的談判。

We are focused on making sure that we are rewarded by the quality of the products and services that we deliver. And that has always been the focus. And I think that's well understood. So I would not be overly concerned about that right now. You're right. So we'll see what happens.

我們致力於確保我們所提供的產品和服務的品質得到回報。這一直是焦點。我認為這很好理解。所以我現在不會過度擔心這一點。你說得對。所以我們會看看會發生什麼。

I would just point that inventory levels are still low. So there can be also opportunity for them to replenish some of their inventories. I cannot speak for them. But this year, it has been good. It has been strong. We have been actually shipped more than what we had anticipated at the beginning of the year, and we'll see how it plays out next year.

我只想指出庫存水準仍然很低。因此，他們也有機會補充一些庫存。我不能代表他們說話。但今年，情況已經不錯了。它一直很強大。實際上，我們的出貨量超出了年初的預期，我們將看看明年的表現如何。

So we'll move now to a question from Bastian at Deutsche Bank.

我們現在轉向德意志銀行巴斯蒂安提出的問題。

Yes. First also, thanks for giving us that color on Temirtau, could you maybe help us with the EBITDA number, which Temirtau has been contributing in the course of the third quarter, please? This is my first question.

是的。首先，感謝您為我們提供 Temirtau 的顏色，您能否幫助我們了解 Temirtau 在第三季度貢獻的 EBITDA 數字？這是我的第一個問題。

Bastian, if you look at our slides, what we have been saying -- what we said is we gave you what has been the average contribution of Temirtau to the group in terms of EBITDA of about $300 million. CapEx, about $250 million per year. And we are saying that this year because of the challenging market environment and operational environment that we have faced, the profitability of the business and the EBIT of the business is negative.

巴斯蒂安，如果你看一下我們的幻燈片，我們一直在說——我們所說的是，我們給了你 Temirtau 對集團 EBITDA 的平均貢獻約為 3 億美元。資本支出，每年約 2.5 億美元。我們說，今年由於我們面臨的充滿挑戰的市場環境和營運環境，業務的獲利能力和息稅前利潤為負。

But we're not going to break down the results. You can see, I mean, what is -- look at 9 months you will see that we have Ukraine and Kazakhstan negative, offset in part by South Africa. But that gives you an indication of the magnitude, but it's -- it has been negative this year for us.

但我們不會詳細分析結果。你可以看到，我的意思是，看看 9 個月你會發現我們對烏克蘭和哈薩克的負面影響，被南非部分抵消。但這讓你知道了其嚴重程度，但今年對我們來說是負面的。

Could you at least tell us -- and I suppose it's also been negative last quarter, but could you at least give us some direction guidance, whether it's been negative last quarter?

您至少能告訴我們嗎？我想上個季度的情況也是負面的，但您至少能給我們一些方向指導嗎，上個季度是否是負面的？

It was negative last quarter as well.

上個季度也是負值。

Okay. Then my second question is on the Pollution Fee Act in the U.S. And I appreciate that's a very preliminary framework, and it's probably very early days, but it would still be great if you could give us your thoughts on it and how it would be impacting your business?

好的。我的第二個問題是關於美國的《污染費法案》。我很欣賞這是一個非常初步的框架，而且可能還處於早期階段，但如果您能給我們您對此的想法以及它將如何影響，那就太好了你的事？

So (inaudible)...

所以（聽不清楚）...

My question is on the Pollution Fee Act in the U.S., which I thought was basically I think the initiative was published about a week ago, and it seems to be a bit of a response to the conversations, which have held on the European and U.S. I think green steel and aluminum trade agreement, which apparently has failed. And I think that deadline has been shifted out.

我的問題是關於美國的《污染費法案》，我認為該法案基本上是在一周前發布的，這似乎是對歐洲和美國的對話的回應。我認為綠色鋼鐵和鋁貿易協定顯然已經失敗了。我認為最後期限已經被推遲了。

But from my understanding, there has been now a new proposal made, i.e., the Pollution Fee Act, which I think is also aiming to basically put a charge on imports or basically try to find a mechanism to basically protect the U.S. market against material, which is not coping with the emission standards, which the U.S. market has.

但據我了解，現在提出了一項新提案，即《污染費法案》，我認為該法案的目的也是為了從根本上對進口徵收費用，或者基本上試圖找到一種機制，從根本上保護美國市場免受物質、這不符合美國市場的排放標準。

So just in case you've got any early thoughts on this and how it would be impacting your business, given that you're also shipping quite a bit of amount -- of material from both obviously, Brazil, Mexico and also Canada? Just in case you've got any early thoughts, that would be great.

那麼，如果您對此有任何早期想法以及它將如何影響您的業務，因為您還運送大量來自巴西、墨西哥和加拿大的材料？如果您有任何早期想法，那就太好了。

Yes. Thank you. Nothing specific, to be honest with you. I think it's very early days. But clearly, the direction of travel is that leading economies are moving towards a more fair based trading system. And what does that really mean? It means to the extent that industries and companies are decarbonizing, how can they ensure that they can compete effectively other imports.

是的。謝謝。老實說，沒什麼具體的。我認為現在還為時過早。但顯然，主要經濟體的發展方向是朝著更公平的貿易體系邁進。這到底意味著什麼？這意味著產業和公司脫碳的程度如何，如何確保能夠有效地與其他進口產品競爭。

And so there needs to be a level playing field. And I think you see some of that in the CBAM that has been launched in Europe. It's under trial period, and after 2 years, there will be costs I believe, in the U.S. also, they're examining how best to ensure that there is a level playing field and that we have a fair-trading system.

因此需要有一個公平的競爭環境。我認為您可以在歐洲推出的 CBAM 中看到其中的一些內容。它正在試用期，兩年後，我相信會產生成本，在美國，他們也在研究如何最好地確保有一個公平的競爭環境，並且我們有一個公平的交易體系。

Okay. Maybe just on the European CBAM because I saw on your slides, you say that there is already a penalty relating to -- related to the noncompliance reporting rules for the CBAM also in the transition period. My understanding was that there is not a financial penalty at this point, but maybe I'm wrong, if maybe you could just briefly provide a bit of color on that as well?

好的。也許只是在歐洲 CBAM 上，因為我在您的投影片上看到，您說已經存在與過渡期內 CBAM 不合規報告規則相關的處罰。我的理解是，目前還沒有經濟處罰，但也許我錯了，您是否也可以簡單地提供一些資訊？

Yes. Bastian, our understanding is that you're right. So they will not be paying now, of course, for these first 2 years and the CO2 costs. But to the extent that it fails to report, then there can be some financial penalties to be established. We don't know exactly how this is going to work. It's still relatively new.

是的。巴斯蒂安，我們的理解是你是對的。因此，當然，他們現在不會支付前兩年的費用和二氧化碳成本。但如果未能報告，則可能會受到一些經濟處罰。我們並不確切知道這將如何運作。它仍然相對較新。

In the first -- at least 3 quarters, the rules are yet being worked out and the commission and the various state -- and many states still align on how this is going to happen. But our understanding is that if someone imports and doesn't report, it can -- then can be subject to penalties, but that's not the same as paying for the carbon.

在第一個季度（至少三個季度），規則尚未制定，委員會和各州 - 許多州仍在就如何實現這一目標達成一致。但我們的理解是，如果有人進口但沒有報告，那麼它可能會受到處罰，但這與支付碳費用不同。

Okay. Great.

好的。偉大的。

Right. Next question. We'll move now to a question from Max at ODDO.

正確的。下一個問題。我們現在轉向 ODDO 的 Max 提出的問題。

Yes. My first question is on Ukraine. Can you share the current utilization rate in iron ore, bigger semifinished products? And what was the steps actually towards a step-up in production? I understand there's a blast furnace now in maintenance, but when it's done, when it's completed at the end of the year, there could be a significant increase in production. So could you give us a bit more color on that?

是的。我的第一個問題是關於烏克蘭的。能分享一下目前鐵礦石、更大的半成品的使用率嗎？提高產量的實際步驟是什麼？據我所知，現在有一座高爐正在維護中，但是當它完成後，當它在年底完工時，產量可能會顯著增加。那你能給我們更多的資訊嗎？

Yes. Max, I can. To be honest, the situation has not really changed much. We continue to operate one less furnace -- only one furnace. And we continue to run the mines at about 40%, 45% of capacity. The challenges continue to be logistics to get the raw materials in to get the finished products out.

是的。麥克斯，我可以。說實話，情況並沒有真正改變多少。我們繼續減少一台熔爐的運作—只有一台熔爐。我們繼續以大約 40%、45% 的產能運行礦場。挑戰仍然是從原材料進入到成品輸出的物流。

The products that we are producing today in terms of finished products, they have been sold domestically and to some neighboring countries where we still have access to logistics. So that remains really the main challenge and we have to see how it evolves. The situation is still, as we all know, quite fragile.

我們今天生產的成品，已銷往國內以及我們仍然有物流的一些鄰國。因此，這仍然是主要挑戰，我們必須看看它如何演變。眾所周知，局勢仍然相當脆弱。

But it's -- the good thing is the assets continue to be well kept and we continue to support our employees. And the teams are doing a great job in managing this very, very challenging situation.

但好處是資產繼續妥善保存，我們繼續支持我們的員工。團隊在應對這一非常非常具有挑戰性的情況方面做得非常出色。

Okay. And the second and last question is on your decarbonization strategy, it's on hydrogen. I've seen that in Brazil, you signed an MOU with a local electricity company to evaluate the feasibility of a H2 plant.

好的。第二個問題也是最後一個問題是關於你們的脫碳策略，它是關於氫的。我看到，在巴西，你們與當地一家電力公司簽署了一份諒解備忘錄，以評估氫氣工廠的可行性。

So I wonder how far would you be actually willing to in-source hydrogen production? Is it something that you think will be essentially outsourced to external providers? Or is that something that you could do also on your own and for a significant part of your needs in terms of DRI?

所以我想知道您實際上願意在多大程度上進行內部氫氣生產？您認為這基本上會外包給外部提供者嗎？或者您也可以自己做一些事情來滿足您在 DRI 方面的大部分需求？

Yes. Thank you for the question. Just very quickly on decarb is big picture. As all of you are aware, ArcelorMittal is a technology leader. We have a phenomenal capability in terms of R&D. We have a globally diversified workforce, which I believe is the best in the industry. And along with the fact that we have different pockets of energy, and we have global asset base. I think we're extremely well positioned to lead the way in terms of how we decarbonize both steel processes as well as steel product.

是的。感謝你的提問。很快地脫碳就是大局了。眾所周知，安賽樂米塔爾是技術領導者。我們在研發方面擁有驚人的能力。我們擁有全球多元化的員工隊伍，我認為這是業內最好的。除此之外，我們擁有不同的能源領域，而且我們擁有全球資產基礎。我認為我們處於非常有利的位置，可以在鋼鐵工藝和鋼鐵產品脫碳方面處於領先地位。

In terms of what we are doing to vertically integrate into the energy space, the focus so far has been on renewable energy. There's a nice slide where we have 3 projects that we have started in India, in Brazil and in Argentina. These are excellent projects when you look through the see-through return, the benefit to the steel facility as well as renewable stand-alone return, they more than exceed our investment hurdles.

就我們垂直整合能源領域所做的工作而言，迄今為止的重點是再生能源。有一張很好的幻燈片，其中我們在印度、巴西和阿根廷啟動了 3 個項目。當您查看透明回報、鋼鐵設施的效益以及可再生的獨立回報時，這些都是出色的項目，它們遠遠超過了我們的投資障礙。

In terms of hydrogen and other sources, I think, look, it's preliminary, we're evaluating. To the extent that we can meet our investment hurdles and that they create value for us in the long run and further support as we decarbonize our business, we will clearly look at them and inform you accordingly.

就氫和其他來源而言，我認為，看，這是初步的，我們正在評估。如果我們能夠克服投資障礙，並從長遠來看它們為我們創造價值，並在我們業務脫碳時提供進一步支持，我們將清楚地關注它們並相應地通知您。

Okay clear.

好吧清楚了。

So now we'll now move to a question from Timna at Wolfe Research.

現在我們將討論沃爾夫研究中心 Timna 提出的問題。

I hope everyone is doing well. I was hoping for an update on Calvert timing, but also in the context of Calvert and also another large electric arc furnace adding capacity, how you're thinking about the scrap market? Certainly, the HBI facility have helped, but it seems like a lot of additional scrap demand around the corner, I would love your thoughts?

我希望每個人都做得很好。我希望獲得有關卡爾弗特時間安排的最新消息，但在卡爾弗特和另一個大型電弧爐增加產能的背景下，您如何看待廢鋼市場？當然，HBI 設施有所幫助，但似乎即將出現大量額外的廢料需求，我想聽聽您的想法？

Sure. Thank you, Timna. Look, the Calvert project is proceeding well. We expect to have a start-up by the first half of 2024. It's an excellent project because it's got a lot of secondary metallurgy, and it can produce the highest grades and supported by our facility in Corpus Christi in Texas.

當然。謝謝你，蒂姆納。看，卡爾弗特專案進展順利。我們預計將在2024 年上半年啟動。這是一個出色的項目，因為它有大量的二次冶金，並且可以生產最高等級的產品，並獲得我們位於德克薩斯州科珀斯克里斯蒂的工廠的支持。

As you mentioned, we will be able to do low-carbon, high-quality automotive products. So really, this will lead the way in terms of the U.S. steel business and the U.S. steel industry and really having a low-carbon base for high-quality exposed automotive applications.

正如你所提到的，我們將能夠做低碳、高品質的汽車產品。因此，實際上，這將引領美國鋼鐵業和美國鋼鐵工業的發展，並真正為高品質暴露的汽車應用奠定低碳基礎。

In terms of scrap, I do agree with you that it's harder and harder to find good quality scrap, prime scrap in the United States. And that is why I think our strategy of investing in Texas, making sure that we have that strategic asset where we have good quality, high quality, I should add, low carbon metallics repay dividends.

在廢鋼方面，我確實同意你的觀點，在美國找到優質廢鋼、優質廢鋼越來越難。這就是為什麼我認為我們在德州的投資策略，確保我們擁有優質的策略資產，我應該補充一點，低碳金屬能夠帶來紅利。

Okay. And if I could one more. What conditions are you thinking about to consider restarting some of the idle assets in Europe. It's a question of seasonality, you think? Or can you give us a little more color on what you're looking for there?

好的。如果我還能再來一張的話。您在考慮什麼條件可以考慮重啟歐洲部分閒置資產？您認為這是季節性問題嗎？或者你能給我們更多關於你在那裡尋找什麼的資訊嗎？

Yes, Timna, let me take this one. I mean what we have right now, we have basically maintenance. 2 of our furnaces. 1 furnace in Germany, it's going to be down for 30 days for maintenance. And then we have a reline in Gent in Belgium for about 70 days. And then after that, these furnaces should be up and running.

是的，蒂姆納，讓我拿走這個。我的意思是我們現在所擁有的，我們基本上都有維護。我們的 2 個熔爐。德國1號熔爐將停機30天進行維護。然後我們在比利時根特進行為期約 70 天的換線。之後，這些熔爐應該啟動並運行。

The only furnace that is currently be down for market conditions, due to market conditions is Fos, and we will wait a bit more to take a decision to restart the furnace. But other than that, and for the maintenance work that will be constraining our production in Q4, as we have highlighted in our earnings release, the other facilities all run.

目前唯一因市場狀況而關閉的熔爐是 Fos，我們將再等待一段時間才能做出重啟熔爐的決定。但除此之外，正如我們在收益報告中所強調的那樣，由於維護工作將限制我們第四季度的生產，其他設施都在運作。

Okay. I'll leave it there.

好的。我會把它留在那裡。

So we'll move now to a question from Andrew at UBS.

現在我們來回答瑞銀安德魯的問題。

Just wanted to touch on the M&A topic again. I think because we tried to ask about sort of potential maximum leverage ratios and things like that. You talked about the earning power of the business. I mean it's very multiple of EBITDA.

只是想再談談併購話題。我想是因為我們試著問潛在的最大槓桿率之類的問題。您談到了企業的獲利能力。我的意思是它是 EBITDA 的很多倍。

And also if you're thinking about acquisitions, I mean, is your -- would you consider using a significant amount of stock given the fact that, obviously, it trades at a pretty low multiple today and will it be depressed point in the cycle? How do you think about use of stock in M&A?

而且，如果你正在考慮收購，我的意思是，你是否會考慮使用大量股票，因為顯然，它今天的市盈率相當低，而且會是周期中的低迷點？您如何看待股票在併購中的使用？

And I guess, we've all been turning around the topics. But I mean what are you able to tell us about the links to view as yourselves to obviously as a large producer in the U.S. and then also these (inaudible) assets in India that have been in the press as well. Can you just give us an idea about maybe potential rationale and how you think about above those assets?

我想，我們都在轉移話題。但我的意思是，您能告訴我們什麼是您自己與美國大型生產商之間的聯繫，以及媒體上報導過的印度的這些（聽不清楚）資產。您能為我們介紹一下潛在的理由以及您如何看待這些資產嗎？

Yes. Thank you. Look, I don't think you guys are (inaudible). I think you guys are trying to ask it directly and directly many times. But as you are aware, we cannot comment on M&A.

是的。謝謝。聽著，我不認為你們是（聽不清楚）。我認為你們多次試圖直接直接地問這個問題。但如您所知，我們無法對併購發表評論。

In terms of your question on capital discipline, I think that's a very good one. I think I said it, but you asked a nuance, so I will elaborate further. We're focused on retaining a strong balance sheet, focused on retaining our investment-grade credit rating and focused on our capital allocation policy.

關於你關於資本紀律的問題，我認為這是一個很好的問題。我想我已經說過了，但你問了細微差別，所以我會進一步闡述。我們致力於維持強勁的資產負債表、投資等級信用評級以及資本配置政策。

As I mentioned, we have bought back more than 30% of the business. So really, it would not make sense for us to be issuing shares. I think you highlighted the multiple discrepancy. We've also talked about the book value per share. We talk about the growth. We talked about how in this environment, the margin per tonne remains good.

正如我所提到的，我們已經回購了超過 30% 的業務。所以實際上，我們發行股票是沒有意義的。我認為你強調了多重差異。我們也討論了每股帳面價值。我們談論成長。我們討論了在這種環境下如何保持良好的每噸利潤。

If you look through our net income, it's very, very strong and it's $1.5 in the last 9 months and in the per share basis. And that's because we have these excellent joint ventures as well.

如果你看一下我們的淨利潤，你會發現它非常非常強勁，過去 9 個月的每股淨利潤為 1.5 美元。那是因為我們也擁有這些優秀的合資企業。

You alluded to India; India is doing really well. It's a very strong business. We're growing it. We are investing to double the assets. So if you visit, you could see lots and lots of cranes and the underlying business is very strong because it has a low-cost base. We have our own iron ore, we have our own pelletizers, everything is coastal.

你提到了印度；印度做得非常好。這是一項非常強大的業務。我們正在種植它。我們正在投資使資產翻倍。因此，如果您訪問，您可以看到很多很多起重機，基礎業務非常強勁，因為它具有低成本基礎。我們有自己的鐵礦石，我們有自己的球團機，一切都是沿海的。

We make high-quality products there. We are starting up our automotive capable, cold rolling and galv lines as well. So I think that's the complete picture on ArcelorMittal and therefore, our capital allocation policy in which we take half of free cash flow and return it to shareholders as appropriate. I think it will not be appropriate for us to be issuing shares in this environment.

我們在那裡生產高品質的產品。我們也正在啟動我們的汽車生產線、冷軋生產線和鍍鋅生產線。因此，我認為這就是安賽樂米塔爾的完整情況，因此，我們的資本配置政策是，我們將一半的自由現金流酌情回饋給股東。我認為我們在這種環境下發行股票是不合適的。

That's very clear. And -- but do you have -- I mean, you've talked about the $7 billion in the past as the net debt target is for a -- to keep a strong balance sheet to keep high-grade investment credit rating. Is there a maximum point that you put on it? I mean if you exceeded, say, 2x EBITDA or would that be -- yes, would that be a no go? Or would it -- I mean what -- can you give us any steer around that?

這非常清楚。而且——但你是否——我的意思是，你過去談到過70億美元的淨債務目標是為了——保持強勁的資產負債表，以保持高等級的投資信用評級。你的分數有上限嗎？我的意思是，如果您超過了 2 倍 EBITDA，或者是——是的，那會是不行的嗎？或者——我的意思是——你能為我們提供一些解決這個問題的指導嗎？

Yes. Look, I think the focus remains strong balance sheet, investment grade to the extent that we develop the business, grow the business, we can evaluate that. But really, you should look at this company will be maintaining and retaining its investment-grade credit metrics. It's hard for me to be more explicit than that. But I think that provides you with a good framework of what we're trying to achieve.

是的。看，我認為重點仍然是強勁的資產負債表和投資評級，以我們發展業務、發展業務的程度，我們可以對此進行評估。但實際上，你應該看看這家公司將維持和保留其投資等級信用指標。我很難說得比這更明確了。但我認為這為您提供了我們正在努力實現的目標的良好框架。

Yes. Okay.

是的。好的。

So we'll move to the last question actually, which is from Moses at JPMorgan.

因此，我們實際上將轉向最後一個問題，這是來自摩根大通的摩西的。

I just wanted to ask on the working capital, so we build here in this quarter. And just trying to understand the reasons for that build, if any available to deal with building inventories for capacity curtailment? And if so, how much of these inventories are finished goods inventories versus semifinished goods? Just to give us a steer on essentially what we can expect to unwind in Q4 given obviously a weak demand environment currently?

我只是想問一下營運資金，所以我們在本季在這裡建造。只是想了解該建設的原因，是否有任何可用於處理產能削減的建設庫存？如果是這樣，這些庫存中有多少是成品庫存，哪些是半成品庫存？鑑於目前需求環境明顯疲軟，只是為了讓我們了解第四季我們可以預期的放鬆情況嗎？

Yes. Hi, Moses. Let me take this one. So there are a couple of reasons for the review of inventories certainly in Q3. One is, of course, we had the incident in 2 furnaces in Europe. So as a result, we draw from inventories to supply customers in the first half. So we got to a point where we had to start replenishing our internal inventories.

是的。嗨，摩西。讓我拿走這個。因此，在第三季對庫存進行審查肯定有幾個原因。當然，其中之一是我們在歐洲的兩座熔爐中發生了這一事件。因此，我們在上半年從庫存中提取供應給客戶。所以我們到了必須開始補充內部庫存的地步。

And as I have said in another question, we do have maintenance work in quarter 4 in 2 furnaces. So it was also important to prepare for that. So most of the replenishment that you see is on the metal stock side.

正如我在另一個問題中所說，我們確實在第四季度對 2 個熔爐進行了維護工作。因此為此做好準備也很重要。所以你看到的補貨大部分都是在金屬庫存方面。

And as we have guided up to Q3, we have invested about $900 million in working capital and our expectation is to more than reverse that in Q4. So that should give you an indication of the potential inflow coming from working capital in Q4. I hope that helps.

正如我們截至第三季的指導，我們已經投資了約 9 億美元的營運資金，我們的預期是在第四季扭轉這一局面。因此，這應該能讓您了解第四季度營運資金的潛在流入。我希望這有幫助。

That's good.

那挺好的。

Aditya, that's our last question, so I'll hand the call back to you.

Aditya，這是我們的最後一個問題，所以我會將電話轉回給您。

Okay. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, everyone, for joining the call today. I just wanted to reiterate that I know it's a very difficult time for all of us. The tragedy and the pain of Kazakhstan is very raw. We're doing everything we can to support the communities and our colleagues who are deeply impacted. They're absolutely devastated.

好的。謝謝你，丹尼爾。謝謝大家今天加入電話會議。我只是想重申，我知道這對我們所有人來說都是一個非常困難的時刻。哈薩克的悲劇和痛苦是非常殘酷的。我們正在盡一切努力支持深受影響的社區和同事。他們徹底崩潰了。

At the same time, we are working very, very hard. All the leaders in the company are focused on improving our safety practices across the board. We are also going to use the support of a third-party independent firm, which will do a comprehensive audit looking at governance practices, looking at policies, processes, what we do on the shop floor, are our audits good enough, training exercises, and we will be publishing those recommendations.

同時，我們正在非常非常努力地工作。公司所有領導都致力於全面改進我們的安全實踐。我們還將利用第三方獨立公司的支持，該公司將進行全面的審計，著眼於治理實踐、政策、流程、我們在車間所做的事情、我們的審計是否足夠好、培訓練習、我們將發布這些建議。

I can assure you we take this very seriously, extremely seriously and we're all more than committed, more than 100% committed on improving our global safety performance.

我可以向您保證，我們非常認真、非常認真地對待這個問題，並且我們都非常致力於、100% 以上地致力於提高我們的全球安全績效。

With that, thank you very much for your time and look forward to talking to you soon.

在此，非常感謝您抽出寶貴的時間，並期待很快與您交談。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded.

女士們、先生們，會議現已結束。