萬機儀器 (MKSI) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the MKS second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 MKS 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Paretosh Misra, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。現在，我想將會議交給今天的第一位發言者，投資者關係副總裁帕雷托什·米斯拉 (Paretosh Misra)。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. I'm Paretosh Misra, Vice President of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by John Lee, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Ram Mayampurath , Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Yesterday, after market close, we released our financial results for the second quarter of 2025, which are posted to our investor website at investor.mks.com.

大家早安。我是投資者關係副總裁 Paretosh Misra，今天早上與我一起參加會議的還有總裁兼執行長 John Lee 和執行副總裁兼財務長 Ram Mayampurath。昨天收盤後，我們發布了 2025 年第二季的財務業績，該業績發佈在我們的投資者網站 investor.mks.com 上。

As a reminder, various remarks about future expectations, plans, and prospects for MKS comprise forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially as a result of various important factors, including those discussed in yesterday's press release, our most recent annual report on 10-K, and our most recent quarterly report on Form 10-Q. These statements represent the company's expectations only as of today and should not be relied upon as representing the company's estimates or views as of any date subsequent to today, and the company disclaims any obligation to update these statements.

提醒一下，關於 MKS 未來預期、計劃和前景的各種評論均包含前瞻性陳述。由於各種重要因素，實際結果可能存在重大差異，包括昨天的新聞稿、我們最近的 10-K 年度報告和最近的 10-Q 季度報告中討論的因素。這些聲明僅代表本公司截至今天的預期，不應被視為代表本公司截至今天之後任何日期的估計或觀點，且本公司不承擔更新這些聲明的任何義務。

During the call, we will be discussing various non-GAAP financial measures. Unless otherwise noted, all income statement-related financial measures will be non-GAAP other than revenue and gross margin. Please refer to our press release and the presentation materials posted to the Investor Relations section of our website for information regarding our non-GAAP financial results and reconciliations to our GAAP measures. Our investor website also provides a detailed breakup of revenues by end market and divisions.

在電話會議中，我們將討論各種非公認會計準則財務指標。除非另有說明，除收入和毛利率外，所有與損益表相關的財務指標均採用非公認會計準則。有關我們的非 GAAP 財務表現和與 GAAP 指標的對帳訊息，請參閱我們的新聞稿和發佈到我們網站投資者關係部分的簡報資料。我們的投資者網站也提供了按終端市場和部門劃分的詳細收入明細。

Now I'll turn the call over to John.

現在我將把電話轉給約翰。

Thanks, Paretosh, and good morning, everyone. MKS delivered excellent results in the second quarter, highlighted by strong revenue performance and solid profitability. We executed well in delivering for our customers in a dynamic environment while continuing to manage our costs. And since our last earnings call, we made two additional prepayments on our term loan totaling $200 million, demonstrating our continued ability to use healthy free cash flow to delever the balance sheet.

謝謝，帕累托什，大家早安。MKS 在第二季度取得了出色的業績，突顯出強勁的營收表現和穩健的獲利能力。我們在動態環境中為客戶提供優質服務，同時繼續控製成本。自上次收益電話會議以來，我們又對定期貸款進行了兩次預付款，總額為 2 億美元，這表明我們有能力繼續利用健康的自由現金流來降低資產負債表的槓桿率。

Second-quarter revenue of $973 million was above the high end of our guidance, driven by demand growth in our Semiconductor and Electronic Packaging end markets. Net earnings per diluted share of $1.77 were at the high end of our guidance. Our gross margins, while in line with our guidance, reflect higher cost absorption due to tariffs. However, we held the line well and remain confident in our mitigation strategies. Ram will share more in his remarks.

第二季營收為 9.73 億美元，高於我們預期的高端，這得益於半導體和電子封裝終端市場的需求成長。每股攤薄淨收益 1.77 美元，處於我們預期的高點。我們的毛利率雖然符合我們的預期，但反映了關稅導致的成本吸收增加。然而，我們堅守陣地，並對我們的緩解策略充滿信心。拉姆將在他的演講中分享更多內容。

I'll turn now to Q2 performance in our three end markets, starting with our Semiconductor market. Revenue came in above the high end of our guidance. With customer inventories having largely normalized, we benefited from very strong NAND upgrade activity that drove continued sequential momentum and demand for our RF Power Solutions and we saw sequential improvement in our Vacuum products business as well.

現在我將談談我們三個終端市場的第二季表現，首先是我們的半導體市場。收入高於我們預期的上限。隨著客戶庫存基本上恢復正常，我們受益於非常強勁的 NAND 升級活動，這推動了我們的射頻電源解決方案持續的連續增長勢頭和需求，並且我們的真空產品業務也得到了連續改善。

We continue to gain traction with our Remote Plasma and Gas Delivery Solutions for advanced logic applications. We also continue to execute well in our Services business, which is seeing strong growth as our customers increasingly rely on higher-value solutions for reliability and uptime. Over the past couple of years, we have expanded our value-added services capabilities. And this, combined with our larger installed base, is resulting in higher levels of growth. Services is a stable annuity-like revenue stream that delivers margins above our corporate average.

我們繼續透過針對高級邏輯應用的遠端等離子和氣體輸送解決方案獲得關注。我們的服務業務也持續表現良好，隨著我們的客戶越來越依賴高價值解決方案的可靠性和正常運作時間，我們的服務業務正在強勁成長。在過去的幾年裡，我們擴展了增值服務能力。這一點，加上我們更大的安裝基礎，帶來了更高水準的成長。服務是一種穩定的年金式收入來源，可帶來高於公司平均的利潤率。

In the third quarter, we expect Semiconductor revenue to moderate on a sequential basis, mainly due to anticipated lumpiness in NAND upgrade activity. We believe it is still relatively early in the upgrade cycle, but customer indications suggest that the pace of conversions will fluctuate from quarter to quarter.

在第三季度，我們預計半導體收入將環比放緩，主要原因是預計 NAND 升級活動將出現波動。我們認為現在還處於升級週期的早期階段，但客戶跡象表明，轉換速度將逐季度波動。

Our semi outlook represents a mid- to high single digits year-over-year growth rate for the quarter, putting us in a strong position to outperform WFE for the year based on available industry commentary and forecasts. Electronics and Packaging revenue was well above the high end of our guidance. The better-than-expected result was driven by strength in both chemistry and chemistry equipment, which more than offset normalization of flexible PCB drilling equipment shipments following a strong Q1 as we noted on our last earnings call.

我們的半年度展望顯示本季的年成長率將達到中高個位數，根據現有的產業評論和預測，這讓我們處於有利地位，預計今年將超越 WFE。電子和包裝業務的收入遠高於我們預期的高端。優於預期的業績得益於化學和化學設備的強勁表現，這超過了我們在上次收益電話會議上指出的第一季度強勁表現之後柔性 PCB 鑽孔設備出貨量正常化的影響。

Our products and technologies play a key role in enabling the manufacturing of increasingly complex devices, and that is validated by the momentum we are seeing in advanced packaging and AI-related applications. This includes continued strong orders for our chemistry and chemistry equipment solutions for advanced multilayer boards and high-density interconnect boards related to AI applications as well as several advanced packaging and AI-related chemistry design wins.

我們的產品和技術在製造日益複雜的設備方面發揮關鍵作用，我們在先進封裝和人工智慧相關應用領域看到的勢頭也證實了這一點。這包括我們針對與人工智慧應用相關的先進多層板和高密度互連板的化學和化學設備解決方案的持續強勁訂單，以及多項先進封裝和人工智慧相關的化學設計勝利。

The trends we're seeing demonstrate our unique capabilities, and how we collaborate with customers to solve their most complex problems. We expect revenue from our Electronics and Packaging market to be up on a sequential basis and up double digits on a year-over-year basis in Q3. This is particularly noteworthy in an environment where many analysts see fairly muted stock fall and PC growth, validating MKS' position in a market where complex electronics applications like AI are driving growth.

我們看到的趨勢顯示了我們獨特的能力，以及我們如何與客戶合作解決他們最複雜的問題。我們預計第三季電子和包裝市場的營收將環比成長，年增兩位數。在許多分析師認為股價下跌和 PC 成長相當溫和的環境下，這一點尤其值得注意，證明了 MKS 在人工智慧等複雜電子應用推動成長的市場中的地位。

We believe revenue from our Chemistry Solutions will increase sequentially, consistent with prior years, and we anticipate continued strength in our Chemistry Equipment business, where we've already seen four consecutive quarters of strong orders in what has historically been a lumpy business. We view equipment sales is a good leading indicator of future chemistry revenue, given our high attach rates.

我們相信，化學解決方案的收入將與前幾年保持一致，並預計化學設備業務將繼續保持強勁增長，我們已經連續四個季度看到強勁的訂單，而這個業務在歷史上一直表現不穩定。鑑於我們的高附加率，我們認為設備銷售是未來化學收入的良好領先指標。

Our Specialty Industrial market revenue was slightly above the midpoint of our guidance in Q2. Within this market, the Life and Health Sciences and Research and Defense end markets showed modest sequential improvement, and Industrial remains steady. Notable orders in this business include dissolved gas delivery systems used in flat panel display manufacturing, highlighting how we are successfully leveraging our R&D for Semiconductor and Electronics and Packaging end markets into other areas of high technology.

我們第二季的專業工業市場收入略高於預期中位數。在這個市場中，生命與健康科學以及研究與國防終端市場表現出適度的連續改善，而工業保持穩定。該業務中值得注意的訂單包括用於平板顯示器製造的溶解氣體輸送系統，突顯了我們如何成功地將半導體和電子及封裝終端市場的研發應用到其他高科技領域。

We also secured multiple design wins for applications in areas including Research and Defense and Life and Health Sciences.

我們也在研究與國防以及生命與健康科學等領域的應用上贏得了多個設計勝利。

Looking ahead to Q3, we expect revenue in our specialty industrial market to be flattish. Overall, we executed well and delivered strong financial results in Q2.

展望第三季度，我們預期專業工業市場的營收將持平。總體而言，我們在第二季度表現良好並取得了強勁的財務業績。

Our integrated portfolio of power, vacuum, chemistries and photonics remains well positioned to capitalize on the advanced applications driving growth in our Semiconductor and Electronics and Packaging end markets. I'd like to thank our global teams for their hard work in driving these results and our full momentum in a dynamic market environment. An important pillar of our success is the culture we have built at MKS, and I'm happy to see the broader recognition we have received. Recently, US News & World Report named us the Best Company to Work for, and TIME included us among America's Best Midsized Companies.

我們的電力、真空、化學和光子學綜合產品組合仍處於有利地位，可以利用先進的應用推動半導體、電子和封裝終端市場的成長。我要感謝我們的全球團隊的辛勤工作，在動態的市場環境中推動這些成果並充分發揮我們的發展勢頭。我們成功的一個重要支柱是我們在 MKS 建立的文化，我很高興看到我們獲得了更廣泛的認可。最近，《美國新聞與世界報道》將我們評為“最佳工作公司”，《時代》雜誌將我們列入“美國最佳中型公司”之列。

With that, let me turn it over to Ram to run through the financial results and third-quarter guidance in more detail. Ram?

接下來，讓我將時間交給拉姆，讓他更詳細地介紹財務表現和第三季指引。記憶體？

Thank you, John, and good morning, everyone. We delivered strong results in the second quarter, driven by healthy demand in our Semiconductor and Electronics and Packaging end markets, continued stability in our Specialty Industrial end market and disciplined execution. Second-quarter revenue was $973 million, up 4% sequentially and up 10% year over year. The result was above the high end of our guidance and reflected better-than-expected trends in key end markets. Second-quarter semiconductor Revenue was $432 million, up 5% sequentially and 17% year over year. This result exceeded the high end of our expectations.

謝謝你，約翰，大家早安。由於半導體、電子和封裝終端市場的健康需求、專業工業終端市場的持續穩定以及嚴格的執行，我們在第二季度取得了強勁的業績。第二季營收為 9.73 億美元，季增 4%，年增 10%。此結果高於我們預期的高端，並反映出主要終端市場趨勢優於預期。第二季半導體營收為 4.32 億美元，季增 5%，年增 17%。這個結果超出了我們的最高預期。

Sequential growth was driven by healthier demand in our Vacuum Solutions business, while year-over-year growth reflected continued demand in our broad portfolio of technologies, enabling deposition and etch applications. Results also benefited from normalization of customer inventories and FX tailwinds.

連續成長是由真空解決方案業務更健康的需求推動的，而同比增長反映了我們廣泛的技術組合的持續需求，從而實現了沉積和蝕刻應用。業績也受益於客戶庫存的正常化和外匯的順風。

Second-quarter Electronics and Packaging revenue was $266 million, up 5% sequentially and above the high end of our guidance. This was driven by growth in our Chemistry and Chemistry Equipment business, partially offset by lower demand for flexible PCB drilling equipment, which, as we communicated on our last call, was lower after a strong growth in Q1.

第二季電子和包裝業務營收為 2.66 億美元，季增 5%，高於我們預期的最高值。這是由我們的化學和化學設備業務的成長推動的，但柔性 PCB 鑽孔設備需求的下降部分抵消了這一增長，正如我們上次電話會議所傳達的那樣，柔性 PCB 鑽孔設備的需求在第一季度強勁增長之後有所下降。

We believe a small portion of the sequential improvement in Electronics and Packaging revenue reflects tariff-related pull-in demand. However, underlying demand trends remained favorable, especially as we gain traction in AI and more complex applications, as John noted.

我們認為，電子和包裝收入的連續成長有一小部分反映了與關稅相關的拉動需求。然而，正如約翰所指出的，潛在的需求趨勢仍然有利，特別是隨著我們在人工智慧和更複雜的應用方面獲得發展。

On a year-over-year basis, sales were up 16%, driven by growth in Chemistry, Chemistry Equipment, and flexible PCB drilling equipment sales. Chemistry revenue was up 10% year over year, excluding the impact of FX and palladium pass-through, continuing the strong growth trend from last year. Chemistry is a large portion of our consumables and service revenue stream, which adds stability to our business and accounts for roughly 40% of our revenue.

與去年同期相比，銷售額成長了 16%，這得益於化學、化學設備和柔性 PCB 鑽孔設備銷售額的成長。化學業務營收年增 10%，不包括外匯和鈀金轉嫁的影響，延續了去年強勁的成長趨勢。化學品是我們消耗品和服務收入來源的重要組成部分，它增加了我們業務的穩定性，約占我們收入的 40%。

In our Specialty Industrial business, second-quarter revenue was $275 million, an increase of 2% sequentially and above the high end of our guidance midpoint. Revenue was down 5% on a year-over-year basis, primarily due to continued softness in the industrial market, partially offset by a modest improvement in Research and Defense.

在我們的專業工業業務中，第二季營收為 2.75 億美元，較上季成長 2%，高於我們預期中位數的高端。營收年減 5%，主要原因是工業市場持續疲軟，但研究和國防市場的溫和改善部分抵消了這一影響。

Moving down to P&L. Second quarter gross margin was 46.6%, just above the midpoint of our guidance. The sequential decline was largely driven by incremental costs related to tariffs. We estimate that incremental tariffs negatively impacted our gross margin by 115 basis points, which was slightly higher than expected, reflecting the volatility in the tariff landscape at the time of our projection in May. While the situation remains dynamic, we have implemented a range of mitigation strategies over the past few months that we anticipate will be effective in limiting the tariff impact going forward.

轉到損益表。第二季毛利率為 46.6%，略高於我們預期的中位數。環比下降主要是由於與關稅相關的增量成本所致。我們估計增量關稅對我們的毛利率產生了 115 個基點的負面影響，略高於預期，反映了我們 5 月預測時關稅狀況的波動。儘管情況仍在不斷變化，但我們在過去幾個月中實施了一系列緩解策略，預計這些策略將有效限制未來關稅的影響。

Second-quarter operating expenses were $251 million, slightly favorable to our guidance, demonstrating our continued focus on managing our OpEx as we balance investing for growth with driving profitability. Second-quarter operating income was $202 million with an operating margin of 20.8%. This reflects the strong revenue performance and OpEx discipline that I highlighted. Second-quarter adjusted EBITDA was $240 million and above the high end of our expectations, with adjusted EBITDA margin of 24.7%. Net interest expenses was $46 million, slightly favorable to our guidance.

第二季的營運費用為 2.51 億美元，略高於我們的預期，顯示我們繼續專注於管理營運支出，在投資成長與提高獲利能力之間取得平衡。第二季營業收入為 2.02 億美元，營業利益率為 20.8%。這反映了我所強調的強勁收入表現和營運支出紀律。第二季調整後的 EBITDA 為 2.4 億美元，高於我們的預期上限，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 24.7%。淨利息支出為 4,600 萬美元，略高於我們的預期。

The second-quarter effective tax rate was 18.2%, which is consistent with our guidance. Second-quarter net earnings were $119 million or $1.77 per diluted share and at the high end of our guidance, reflecting our strong financial performance. Free cash flow, a defining strength of our company was up sequentially and year over year to $136 million, representing over 100% of our net earnings and 14% of our revenue.

第二季有效稅率為18.2%，與我們的預期一致。第二季淨收益為 1.19 億美元，即每股 1.77 美元，處於我們預期的高位，反映了我們強勁的財務表現。自由現金流是我們公司的決定性優勢，環比和同比增長至 1.36 億美元，占我們淨利潤的 100% 以上和收入的 14%。

We invested $29 million in capital expenditures in the quarter. We continue to expect full-year CapEx to fall within 4% to 5% of our revenue. We closed the quarter with approximately $1.3 billion of liquidity comprised of cash and cash equivalents of $674 million and our undrawn revolving credit facility of $675 million. We made a voluntary principal prepayment of $100 million in June and another $100 million prepayment earlier this month. We remain focused on executing our long-term capital allocation priorities of investing in organic growth opportunities while reducing our leverage through principal prepayment and working with our banking partners to reduce our interest expenses as market opportunities arise.

本季我們投資了 2,900 萬美元的資本支出。我們仍然預計全年資本支出將占我們收入的 4% 至 5%。本季結束時，我們的流動資金約為 13 億美元，其中包括 6.74 億美元的現金和現金等價物以及 6.75 億美元的未提取循環信貸額度。我們在 6 月自願預付了 1 億美元的本金，並在本月初又預付了 1 億美元。我們仍然專注於執行我們的長期資本配置優先事項，即投資於有機成長機會，同時透過提前償還本金來降低我們的槓桿率，並與我們的銀行合作夥伴合作，在市場機會出現時降低我們的利息支出。

We exited the quarter with gross debt of $4.5 billion and a net leverage ratio of 4 times based on our trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA of $945 million. Our net leverage ratio improved slightly from the end of the prior quarter, reflecting our strong free cash flow and higher year-over-year adjusted EBITDA sales. Finally, during the second quarter, we paid a dividend of $0.22 per share or $15 million.

本季結束時，我們的總債務為 45 億美元，根據過去 12 個月調整後的 EBITDA 為 9.45 億美元，淨槓桿率為 4 倍。我們的淨槓桿率較上一季末略有改善，反映了我們強勁的自由現金流和同比調整後的 EBITDA 銷售額的提高。最後，在第二季度，我們支付了每股 0.22 美元或 1500 萬美元的股息。

Let me now turn to our third-quarter outlook. The guidance we are providing represents our best estimate based on the dynamic trade environment in which we are operating. We expect revenue of $960 million, plus or minus $40 million. We believe our technology is integral to our customers' success, and we are designed into many of the advanced applications of product support.

現在讓我來談談我們第三季的展望。我們提供的指導代表了我們根據所處的動態貿易環境做出的最佳估計。我們預計營收為 9.6 億美元，上下浮動 4,000 萬美元。我們相信我們的技術對於客戶的成功至關重要，並且我們將其設計融入許多先進的產品支援應用中。

By end market, we expect Semiconductor revenue to be $405 million, plus or minus $15 million. Revenue from Electronics and Packaging market is expected to be $285 million, plus or minus $10 million. And revenue from our Specialty Industrial market is expected to be $270 million, plus or minus $15 million.

以終端市場來看，我們預期半導體營收為 4.05 億美元，上下浮動 1,500 萬美元。電子和包裝市場的收入預計為 2.85 億美元，上下浮動 1000 萬美元。我們專業工業市場的收入預計為 2.7 億美元，上下浮動 1500 萬美元。

We are guiding gross margin of 46.5%, plus or minus 100 basis points. Our estimated tariff impact is expected to be below 100 basis points, marking an improvement from Q2.

我們預期毛利率為 46.5%，上下浮動 100 個基點。我們估計關稅影響預計將低於 100 個基點，較第二季有所改善。

As I noted earlier, we have largely implemented our short-term mitigation strategies based on the current trade environment. This environment has remained fluid, but we are committed to optimizing our performance and offsetting these costs. We expect third-quarter operating expenses of $252 million, plus or minus $5 million and adjusted EBITDA of $232 million, plus or minus $24 million.

正如我之前提到的，我們已經根據當前的貿易環境基本上實施了短期緩解策略。這種環境一直在變化，但我們致力於優化我們的效能並抵消這些成本。我們預計第三季營運費用為 2.52 億美元，上下浮動 500 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 2.32 億美元，上下浮動 2,400 萬美元。

We expect a tax rate of approximately 18% in the third quarter. We expect our full-year tax rate to be at the lower end of the 18% to 20% range we provided previously. The new US tax bill was passed subsequent to quarter end. We are currently evaluating the impact of this legislation, which is not reflected in our guidance.

我們預計第三季的稅率約為18%。我們預計全年稅率將處於我們之前提供的 18% 至 20% 範圍的低端。新的美國稅收法案於本季末獲得通過。我們目前正在評估該立法的影響，但這並未反映在我們的指導中。

We expect third quarter net earnings per diluted share of $1.80, plus or minus $0.29. We are pleased with our performance in the first half of the year. Despite trade-related challenges, our revenue, earnings per share, and free cash flow in the first half of the year are up significantly relative to the prior year.

我們預計第三季每股攤薄淨收益為1.80美元，上下浮動0.29美元。我們對上半年的業績感到滿意。儘管面臨貿易相關的挑戰，但今年上半年我們的營收、每股盈餘和自由現金流較上年同期仍有大幅成長。

In the second half, we will continue to work on capitalizing on opportunities as we collaborate closely with our customers, maintain a disciplined cost structure, and keep our focus on strong cash generation that will allow us to make the investments necessary to support our long-term growth and to continue to lower our leverage.

下半年，我們將繼續努力抓住機遇，與客戶密切合作，保持嚴謹的成本結構，並專注於強勁的現金創造，這將使我們能夠進行必要的投資，支持我們的長期成長並繼續降低槓桿率。

With that, operator, please open the call for Q&A.

接線員，請開啟問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

（操作員指示） Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

John, I had a couple of them. Number one is when I look past the September quarter, even if I try to flatline semis in December, it looks like you might probably grow 10% year over year, which is better than WFE. I'm just kind of curious how to think about semi revenue trends beyond September? And are there anything that we need to keep in mind kind of like what you mentioned is some Q-over-Q volatility with NAND, et cetera?

約翰，我有幾個。首先，當我回顧 9 月季度時，即使我試圖讓 12 月的半年度表現持平，看起來你的銷售額也可能同比增長 10%，這比 WFE 要好。我只是有點好奇如何看待九月以後的半收入趨勢？我們是否需要記住一些事情，例如您提到的 NAND 的 Q-over-Q 波動等等？

Krish, thanks for the question. I think the way to think about it is that the basic WFE portfolio that we have is growing year over year, and we believe it's growing faster than the market. So that's good. And the way I think about it is that there's a NAND upgrade overlay over that. You saw that result in a really strong Q2, but it can be lumpy. And certainly, our customers are going to tell us when they need it.

Krish，謝謝你的提問。我認為應該這樣想：我們的基本 WFE 投資組合正在逐年成長，我們相信它的成長速度快於市場。這很好。我的想法是，這上面有一個 NAND 升級覆蓋。您會看到第二季的業績確實非常強勁，但也可能會波動。當然，當我們的客戶需要時他們會告訴我們。

But longer term, of course, the NAND upgrade cycle is great for MKS given our long history in providing high aspect ratio dielectric etch, power for dielectric etch. So I think that's the way to think about it, Krish. The base is pretty strong growing year over year for us. And then the NAND upgrades can be lumpy and can make the quarter much higher or more flatter.

但從長遠來看，鑑於我們在提供高深寬比電介質蝕刻和電介質蝕刻電源方面擁有悠久的歷史，NAND 升級週期對 MKS 來說當然是件好事。所以我認為這就是思考這個問題的方式，克里什。我們的基礎逐年成長，相當強勁。然後 NAND 升級可能會不平穩，並可能使本季度表現更高或更平穩。

Got it. Thanks, John. And then as a quick follow-up. On the E&P side, I think your PCB business, three months ago, you said they might be a little slightly weaker in June because of pull-ins of the tools in March, but then it looks like June came in better. I'm wondering if some of the PCB strength you're seeing has to do with more of downstream smartphone pull-ins or how to think about the PCB business going forward?

知道了。謝謝，約翰。然後進行快速跟進。在 E&P 方面，我認為您的 PCB 業務，三個月前您說過，由於 3 月份工具的撤回，6 月份可能會稍微弱一些，但看起來 6 月份的情況會更好。我想知道您所看到的 PCB 強勢是否與下游智慧型手機的拉動有關，或者您如何看待 PCB 業務的未來發展？

Yeah. I think we saw a little bit of pull-ins. It's hard to tell, but it's pretty minimal, Krish. I think Q2 was just strong because a lot of it was driven by AI, both the equipment and the chemistry. And our guidance in Q3 is higher.

是的。我認為我們看到了一些拉攏現象。這很難說，但非常小，克里什。我認為第二季表現強勁是因為很大程度上是由人工智慧推動的，包括設備和化學。我們對第三季的預期更高。

And as you know, typically, Q3 is higher due to the consumer product cycle that we have in chemistry. And equipment for chemistry remains very strong. So I think there probably was a little bit of pull in EP. We don't think there was any pull-in for semi, but Q3 was still guiding higher.

而且如您所知，通常由於化學領域的消費產品週期，第三季的銷售額會更高。化學設備仍然非常強大。所以我認為 EP 可能有一點吸引力。我們認為半導體產業沒有任何拉動，但第三季仍將走高。

All right. Thanks a lot, John. Thank you.

好的。非常感謝，約翰。謝謝。

Steve Barger, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

KeyBanc 資本市場公司的 Steve Barger。

John, I'm going to stick with the chemistry equipment orders and some of the momentum there. Does it feel like that's the beginning of a sustainable trend? And what are you hearing from substrate manufacturers in terms of capacity utilization and how they're viewing growth, whether it's from traditional products or AI-related products?

約翰，我會堅持化學設備訂單和一些那裡的勢頭。這是否感覺像是一個可持續趨勢的開始？您從基板製造商那裡聽到了什麼關於產能利用率的消息，以及他們如何看待成長，無論是來自傳統產品還是人工智慧相關產品？

Yeah, I'll take the last one first. The substrate makers, they are seeing high utilization rates, and we're seeing that in our Chemistry business. And it's fundamentally driven by AI. So no mystery there, really, Steve.

是的，我先拿最後一個。基板製造商的利用率很高，我們在化學業務中也看到了這一點。從根本上來說，它是由人工智慧驅動的。所以這真的沒有什麼神秘的，史蒂夫。

I think your question on equipment. Traditionally, historically, it's been a pretty lumpy business. We've seen now four straight quarters of sustained relatively high bookings and then the shipments that follow for chemistry equipment. And we believe most of that is related to demand for AI capacity, not necessarily package substrates, but in HDI and MLB that support that AI need. And so having this really broad portfolio is really helpful for MKS.

我認為您的問題是關於設備的。從傳統和歷史上看，這是一個相當不穩定的行業。我們已經看到連續四個季度化學設備的預訂量持續相對較高，並且出貨量也隨之增加。我們認為，其中大部分與 AI 產能需求有關，不一定是封裝基板，而是支援 AI 需求的 HDI 和 MLB。因此，擁有如此廣泛的產品組合對於 MKS 來說非常有幫助。

When E&P goes up, we benefit from that, especially given semi could be a little lumpy. Also having the broad portfolio of Chemistry and Chemistry Equipment really helps us deliver solutions faster and more completely to our customers.

當 E&P 上漲時，我們會從中受益，特別是考慮到半導體產業可能有點不穩定。此外，擁有廣泛的化學和化學設備產品組合確實有助於我們更快、更全面地為客戶提供解決方案。

Yeah. Thanks for that. That's good detail. And I suspect you all have been engaged in strategic planning for next year. And certainly, with things feeling maybe a little bit better than last year, any high-level thoughts on where you want to point the company, what your operational priorities are, or anything in the portfolio that we should be thinking about?

是的。謝謝。細節很好。我想你們都在為明年制定策略規劃。當然，現在的情況可能比去年好一點，對於公司未來的發展方向、營運重點或我們應該考慮的投資組合，您有什麼高層想法嗎？

Well, I think some of the areas that we talked about that we're focused on to outgrow in semi, for instance, world-class optics power for high aspect ratio etch, both anti electric and conductor, those remain. And then certainly, our efforts in Electronics and Packaging, giving that a complete solution of chemistry, chemistry equipment, as well as laser equipment. So I don't think those priorities really change. Those have been well thought out long-term priorities. And you're starting to see some of that benefit as those markets come back.

嗯，我認為我們討論過的一些領域，我們專注於在半導體領域超越，例如，世界一流的高深寬比蝕刻光學功率，包括抗電和導體，這些都保留了下來。當然，我們在電子和包裝領域的努力提供了化學、化學設備以及雷射設備的完整解決方案。所以我不認為這些優先事項確實會改變。這些都是經過深思熟慮的長期優先事項。隨著這些市場的復甦，你會開始看到一些好處。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Melissa Weathers, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的梅莉莎‧韋瑟斯。

I wanted to go back to the NAND piece within the semis business and talk about that lumpiness. I totally understand we're in the early innings on that upgrade cycle. But I also know there was a pretty large inventory overhang in that business. So like could we see some inventory replenishment on that side of the business? Or is it really just that customers are just pulling what they need and nothing more than that, so it should move pretty closely in line with demand?

我想回到半導體業務中的 NAND 部分並談論其不穩定性。我完全理解我們正處於升級週期的早期階段。但我也知道該業務存在相當大的庫存積壓。那麼我們是否可以看到該業務方面的一些庫存補充？或者實際上客戶只是拿走他們需要的東西，僅此而已，因此它應該與需求非常接近？

Yeah. I think I would characterize it as the latter, Melissa, just because inventory has burned as we have said in the past. Also, lead times are much better now in general, getting the chips to make our power supplies, you have normalized lead times. And so given that, then I think it's probably going to be more tied together rather than a buildup of inventory. Of course, during a large ramp, very large ramp, then, of course, you could see some buildup of inventory. But right now, it feels like because our lead times are relatively back to normal, we expect that we'd be shipping to demand.

是的。梅麗莎，我想我會將其描述為後者，因為庫存已經燒毀，正如我們過去所說的那樣。此外，總體而言，現在的交貨時間要好得多，從製造電源的晶片到交貨時間都已正常化。因此，考慮到這一點，我認為它可能更多地是連結在一起的，而不是庫存的累積。當然，在大規模成長、非常大規模的成長過程中，你當然會看到庫存的增加。但現在感覺因為我們的交貨時間相對恢復正常，我們預計我們會根據需求發貨。

Got it. Thank you. And then on the gross margin, Alex, I don't know if this is for John or for Ron, but I know the chemistries piece does typically carry higher gross margins, and the E&P business is supposed to grow pretty nicely. So the moving pieces on that gross margin outlook, why wouldn't you see more of an uplift just from that higher chemistries mix in the third quarter?

知道了。謝謝。然後關於毛利率，亞歷克斯，我不知道這是約翰的還是羅恩的，但我知道化學部分通常具有更高的毛利率，而 E&P 業務應該會成長得很好。那麼，在毛利率前景方面，為什麼僅僅因為第三季化學成分的增加，你就不會看到更多的提升呢？

This is Ram. I'll take that. So we did see -- we do see a seasonality pickup in better chemistry in Q3. And we are seeing the benefit of that in the margin. However, we are also seeing higher equipment sales, which, as you know, comes with a lower gross margin, but we are very happy to have equipment business because it commits to future chemistry orders with high margins.

這是拉姆。我會接受的。因此，我們確實看到——我們確實看到第三季化學反應的季節性回升。並且我們在利潤方面看到了它的好處。然而，我們也看到設備銷售額有所成長，正如你所知，這伴隨著較低的毛利率，但我們很高興擁有設備業務，因為它承諾未來化學訂單具有高利潤率。

So that equipment orders will sort of offset some of the mix advantage we get from chemistry. Tariffs are a bit better, as I noted in Q3 compared to Q2, but then our volume is slightly lower than Q2. So we are guiding margins relatively at the same levels.

因此，設備訂單將在某種程度上抵消我們從化學中獲得的一些混合優勢。正如我所指出的，與第二季相比，第三季的關稅有所改善，但我們的銷售量略低於第二季。因此，我們指導的利潤率處於相對相同的水平。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Shane Brett, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Shane Brett。

Firstly, on E&P. If I take your Q3 guide, you're tracking about 20% year-over-year growth through Q3, which is well ahead of the GDP plus 300 basis points you spoke about at your 2022 Analyst Day. Just given the AI strength that you're seeing, maybe in some revenue synergies with Atotech, have your growth expectations for this business materially changed since the Analyst Day?

首先，關於勘探與生產。如果我採用您的第三季度指南，那麼到第三季度，您的業績將同比增長約 20%，這遠高於您在 2022 年分析師日上提到的 GDP 增長 300 個基點。鑑於您所看到的人工智慧實力，也許與 Atotech 有一些收入協同效應，自分析師日以來，您對這項業務的成長預期是否發生了實質變化？

Yeah, Shane, thanks for the question. I think it hasn't really changed. We're not updating our five-year model yet. But I would say that we are seeing that advantage driven by AI. I think we're seeing a unique advantage for MKS, which is that we're providing a more complete solution.

是的，Shane，謝謝你的提問。我認為它並沒有真正改變。我們尚未更新我們的五年模型。但我想說，我們看到了人工智慧帶來的優勢。我認為我們看到了 MKS 的獨特優勢，那就是我們提供了更完整的解決方案。

So the chemistry revenue -- organic chemistry revenue, we believe, is also outgrowing some of our competitors quarter on quarter, year over year. But also in addition to that, we have equipment and which most of our competitors, if not all, don't have that. And that equipment, we're finding is incredibly crucial for our customers to be able to deliver the more complex HDI and MLB processes needed for AI. So we're benefiting from both of those right now. So we're in a great position to hit our long-term models.

因此，我們相信，化學收入——有機化學收入的環比、同比增長也超過了我們的一些競爭對手。但除此之外，我們還擁有大多數競爭對手（如果不是全部的話）所沒有的設備。我們發現，該設備對於我們的客戶來說至關重要，能夠提供 AI 所需的更複雜的 HDI 和 MLB 製程。所以我們現在從這兩者中受益。因此，我們處於實現長期模型的有利位置。

Got it. Thank you. And as for my follow-up, so this might be a bit of a long shot question, but there has been talks that the big GPU customer may move from CoWoS to CoPoS, but just including this inflection, how should sort of this inflection or the any other inflections that may sort of significantly impact your business for the E&P side going forward?

知道了。謝謝。至於我的後續問題，這可能是一個有點牽強的問題，但有傳言說，大型 GPU 客戶可能會從 CoWoS 轉向 CoPoS，但僅包括這種轉變，這種轉變或任何其他可能對您未來在 E&P 方面的業務產生重大影響的轉變應該如何？

Yeah. So I think what you're talking about is CoWos moving potentially to CoWoP, I guess, I don't know how we say this anymore, but that S used to be substrate -- stands for substrate and the P stands for PCB. So the idea of CoWoP is that you remove and you skip substrates, as I think you know, going right to the PCB, which is the HDI and MLB.

是的。所以我認為你所說的是 CoWos 可能轉向 CoWoP，我想，我不知道我們現在該怎麼說這個了，但那個 S 曾經是基板 - 代表基板，而 P 代表 PCB。所以 CoWoP 的理念是移除並跳過基板，我想您知道，直接進入 PCB，即 HDI 和 MLB。

Traditionally, we have had a very strong position in HDI, not only in chemistry, but in equipment, as you know, and we're seeing that as well driven by AI. So if the industry were to skip the substrate or some part of the industry were to skip the substrate, we believe that's actually a tailwind for us because of our historic position there, and because our tools are uniquely enabling for that HDI layer. And this goes back to the longer thesis that we have for the acquisition of Atotech. If that were to happen, the HDI boards would have to become much more sophisticated, smaller lines, smaller features, many more layers. And the whole idea there is in order to do that, you need that, we believe, combination of chemistry knobs and equipment knobs to get there.

傳統上，我們在 HDI 領域佔據非常強勢的地位，不僅在化學領域，而且在設備領域，正如你所知，我們也看到這一點受到人工智慧的推動。因此，如果整個行業都跳過基板，或者行業的某些部分跳過基板，我們相信這實際上對我們來說是一個順風，因為我們在那裡的歷史地位，並且因為我們的工具對 HDI 層具有獨特的支持作用。這又回到了我們關於收購 Atotech 的更長的論文。如果發生這種情況，HDI 板必須變得更加複雜，線路更小，特徵更小，層數更多。而為了實現這個目標，我們相信，你需要結合化學知識和設備知識才能實現這個目標。

So the industry is very flexible. They will always look for the most economic solution. And this is certainly an area of interest for some companies.

所以這個行業非常靈活。他們總是會尋找最經濟的解決方案。這無疑是一些公司感興趣的領域。

Got it. Thank you very much.

知道了。非常感謝。

Peter Peng, JP Morgan.

摩根大通 (JP Morgan) 的 Peter Peng。

Within your Semiconductors, can you kind of provide some color on how the lithography and inspection applications are doing? I think the last you updated us, you guys were kind of in this $300 million revenue run rate, any color on that?

在半導體領域，您能否介紹一下光刻和檢測應用的進展？我記得您上次更新時說，你們的收入運行率大概是 3 億美元，有什麼具體消息嗎？

I would say that we're not immune to cycles in world-class optics either for lithography metrology inspection. So as you know, it's been a little more muted than it has been in the past. I would say this, the cycles there are a little more muted. So I would say that $300 million range is still intact. And maybe it might be pushed out a little bit in terms of growing from that.

我想說的是，無論是光刻計量檢測還是世界一流的光學系統，我們都無法免受週期的影響。所以如你所知，現在的情況比過去稍微平靜了一些。我想說的是，那裡的周期更加平緩一些。所以我認為 3 億美元的範圍仍然不變。並且從成長的角度來說，它也許可能會被稍微推遲一點。

But we're really happy with the design wins we continue to participate with with our customers. We designed in, as you know, into the most advanced pieces of equipment in that market. And so when the market returns, we'll enjoy that growth.

但我們對於繼續與客戶合作的設計成果感到非常高興。如您所知，我們設計了該市場上最先進的設備。因此，當市場回升時，我們將享受這種成長。

Got it. And then my follow-up on -- in your Electronics and Packaging, if I look at from an absolute dollar year over year, you guys have been almost growing like $40 million to $50 million in terms of absolute year over year. And you mentioned that the smartphone and PC markets are (inaudible). Can I kind of correlate that this is all driven by AI applications this $40 million, $50 million? Or is there any other stuff in there that's driving that kind of year-over-year growth?

知道了。然後我的後續問題是——在你們的電子和包裝領域，如果我從絕對美元逐年增長來看，你們的年增長率幾乎達到了 4000 萬到 5000 萬美元。你提到智慧型手機和個人電腦市場（聽不清楚）。我是否可以認為這一切都是由價值 4000 萬美元、5000 萬美元的人工智慧應用所推動的？或者有其他因素推動了這種年成長嗎？

Yeah, Peter, I think that's the right way to look at it. We're happy with the year-over-year growth despite the fact that it's well known that certainly, PCs and smartphones are still muted. And we saw that a year ago, and AI was a part of our growth, but not as important or not as big as you see it now. So PCs, smartphones remain muted, but we're outgrowing due to the fact that more and more of our business is targeted to AI. And as I mentioned before, we not only have the chemistry, but we have the equipment that's enabling AI.

是的，彼得，我認為這是正確的看法。儘管眾所周知個人電腦和智慧型手機的銷量仍然不溫不火，但我們對同比增長感到滿意。我們在一年前就看到了這一點，人工智慧是我們成長的一部分，但並不像現在那麼重要或那麼大。因此，個人電腦和智慧型手機仍然保持低調，但由於我們的業務越來越多地面向人工智慧，因此我們正在實現成長。正如我之前提到的，我們不僅有化學技術，而且還擁有支援人工智慧的設備。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Joe Quatrochi, Wells Fargo.

（操作員指示）喬·夸特羅奇 (Joe Quatrochi)，富國銀行。

Maybe just a follow-up on that. I guess as I think about like the expectations for Chemistry growth in 3Q, it sounds like relatively seasonal. So do we assume that to get to seasonal because you're seeing outperformance at AI and your kind of traditional applications would be otherwise below seasonal growth?

也許只是對此的一個後續行動。我想，當我想到對第三季化學成長的預期時，它聽起來相對具有季節性。那麼，我們是否可以假設會出現季節性，因為您看到人工智慧表現優異，而您的傳統應用程式則低於季節性成長？

I think the way to think about it, Joe, is that the seasonal growth is driven by consumer products. So that's kind of the PC smartphone market. And so that really hasn't changed too much. We said a little earlier question. It might be a little pull in, but we're still seeing an uptick in Q3 versus Q2. And then overlaid on top of all that is just the growth in AI. So the seasonality is still driven by those consumer products, Joe.

喬，我認為應該這樣想：季節性成長是由消費品推動的。這就是 PC 智慧型手機市場。所以這其實並沒有太大的改變。我們剛才講了一個稍微有點問題。這可能有點拉動，但我們仍然看到第三季相對於第二季有所上升。而在此之上的，就是人工智慧的成長。因此季節性仍然受到那些消費品的影響，喬。

Okay. But I guess the rate of growth is -- I mean, is it better than normal seasonality, given that this added AI applications that are seeing incremental demand?

好的。但我猜成長率是——我的意思是，考慮到新增的人工智慧應用對增量需求的增加，它是否比正常的季節性更好？

Well, I think that's true. The foundation is much higher because there's an AI additive to it. So yes, I think that's the way to think about it. And as a reminder, as you know, Joe, because of seasonality in Q4 for the consumer product cycle for chemistry is usually one of the lower quarters as well.

嗯，我認為確實如此。由於其中添加了 AI，因此基礎要高得多。是的，我認為這是思考問題的方式。喬，需要提醒一下，如你所知，由於季節性因素，第四季度對於化學消費產品週期來說通常也是較低的季度之一。

Yeah. That's helpful. And maybe as a follow-up in the semi business, just outside of the NAND lumpiness, I mean, are you seeing customers -- we've heard customers kind of focusing more on inventory optimization versus buying incremental new components or keeping inventory flat, just given kind of the tariff dynamics and trying to avoid some of those? Are you seeing that in your business as well?

是的。這很有幫助。也許作為半導體業務的後續發展，除了 NAND 不均衡之外，我的意思是，您是否看到客戶——我們聽說客戶更注重庫存優化，而不是購買增量新組件或保持庫存平穩，只是考慮到關稅動態並試圖避免其中的一些？您在自己的業務中也看到了這一點嗎？

Yeah. No, I think we saw some peers say that. We haven't really seen any of that, Joe, because our lead times are very low, we believe our customers are buying to need rather than trying to optimize inventory. So we didn't see any of that.

是的。不，我想我們看到一些同行這麼說。喬，我們實際上沒有看到任何這種情況，因為我們的交貨時間非常短，我們相信我們的客戶是根據需要購買，而不是試圖優化庫存。所以我們沒有看到任何這些。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mark Miller.

馬克·米勒。

Some of the laser firms are reporting that after many sluggish quarters that their business is improving. I'm just wondering what you're seeing in your Laser segment?

一些雷射公司報告稱，在經歷了多個低迷的季度之後，他們的業務正在好轉。我只是想知道您在雷射領域看到了什麼？

I think our Laser segment, we continue to gain some design wins in some of the key markets. I think we talked about HBM dicing in the past. But in general, industrial lasers, that remains relatively muted, Mark. It has really no change from the several quarters before.

我認為我們的雷射部門在一些關鍵市場繼續獲得一些設計勝利。我想我們過去討論過 HBM 切割。但總的來說，工業雷射仍然相對低調，馬克。與前幾季相比，確實沒有什麼變化。

I think some of it is just customers being a little more cautious as well as you can see from the PMIs around the globe that it's still relatively balanced between growth and contraction. So no, we haven't really seen a lot of pickup there for lasers for industrial applications.

我認為部分原因是客戶變得更加謹慎，從全球 PMI 數據也可以看出，成長和收縮之間仍然相對平衡。所以，我們實際上還沒有看到雷射在工業應用方面的大量應用。

In terms of your key component suppliers, are you seeing any price increases from them due to tariffs?

就你們主要的零件供應商而言，你們的價格是否因關稅而上漲？

We partner with our suppliers as well as our customers, especially with tariffs. And so we're trying to find ways that both of us can reduce the impact of tariffs. So no one's trying to make money on this, obviously. So I think it's been a collaborative working relationship with our suppliers, and we haven't really seen any impact of tariffs and price increases from our partners there.

我們與供應商和客戶合作，特別是在關稅方面。因此，我們正在努力尋找能夠減少關稅影響的方法。因此，顯然沒有人想藉此賺錢。所以我認為這與我們的供應商是一種合作關係，我們並沒有真正看到關稅和價格上漲對我們的合作夥伴產生任何影響。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jim Schneider, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的吉姆·施耐德。

I was wondering if you could maybe focus on the topic of tariffs from a different angle for a moment. First of all, can you talk about whether you baked any relative conservatism into the September quarter guidance based on some of the pull-in commentary you had earlier?

我想知道您是否可以從不同的角度暫時討論一下關稅問題。首先，您能否根據先前的一些評論，談談您是否在 9 月季度指引中加入了相對保守的因素？

And secondly, as a result of President Trump's announcement on Semiconductor tariffs last night, I'm wondering if you see any kind of competitive advantage for you relative to your competitors as a result of that or kind of any other angle on that you can foresee at this point? Thank you.

其次，由於川普總統昨晚宣布了半導體關稅，我想知道您是否認為相對於競爭對手，您會因此獲得任何競爭優勢，或者您目前可以預見到其他方面的優勢？謝謝。

Jim, it's John. I'll take maybe the first one, and Ram can add. But the announcement last night was last night. And so it's hard to tell where that will end up. Certainly, broad strokes, it's complex. It may or may not impact the entire Semiconductor ecosystem. So I would say it's hard for us to tell right now the puts and takes.

吉姆，我是約翰。我可能會選擇第一個，然後 Ram 可以添加。但昨晚的公告是昨晚發布的。因此很難說最終結果會如何。當然，從總體上看，這是很複雜的。它可能會或可能不會影響整個半導體生態系統。所以我想說，現在我們很難判斷利弊。

I would say in general, though, with respect to tariffs, as Ram said, we had more of an impact in Q2. We're looking at less of an impact in Q3 as some of our mitigation actions start taking hold. But it is a very dynamic environment, and things can change quickly, as you know. So I think it's a little hard for us to determine if there's any kind of competitive advantage or disadvantage with what was announced last night. I don't know, Ram, if you want to add anything to that?

不過，我想說，就關稅而言，正如拉姆所說，我們在第二季度受到了更大的影響。隨著我們的一些緩解措施開始發揮作用，我們預計第三季的影響將會減少。但正如你所知，這是一個非常動態的環境，事情可能很快就會改變。因此，我認為我們很難確定昨晚宣布的消息是否有任何競爭優勢或劣勢。我不知道，拉姆，你是否想補充一些內容？

Yeah. I think you covered it, John. I'll just add that with regard to the guidance, there are two key variables here. One is the shifting rules itself, and the second is the timing of our mitigation actions kicking in. So when we guide, we guide based on the best information we have at this point of time based on the rules we know at that point. So I wouldn't say there's any conservatism built into the guide, it's the best information we have at that point.

是的。我想你已經講清楚了，約翰。我只想補充一點，關於指導，這裡有兩個關鍵變數。一是不斷變化的規則本身，二是我們的緩解措施開始生效的時機。因此，當我們進行指導時，我們會根據我們當時所了解的規則，利用當時所掌握的最佳資訊來進行指導。因此，我不會說該指南中存在任何保守主義，它是我們目前掌握的最佳資訊。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) David Liu.

（操作員指示）David Liu。

I was wondering if you can provide a little bit more color on your HDI, MLB for AI applications, maybe to the extent you have visibility, whether you see them going into merchant GPUs, hyperscaler versus neocloud, custom ASICs, any color you have there?

我想知道您是否可以為 AI 應用的 HDI、MLB 提供更多細節，也許在您可見的範圍內，您是否看到它們進入商用 GPU、超大規模與 Neocloud、定制 ASIC，您有什麼具體描述嗎？

I think in general, it's probably customers trying to get all that business. It's a little difficult for us to tell if it's going to particular parts of the AI food chain. But I think, in general, many of our customers need that capacity. Many customers are trying to get into that market in a stronger sense. And so they're building that capacity up, and that's where we're seeing the equipment orders, which have been, as we said, strong over the last several quarters.

我認為總體而言，這可能是客戶想要獲得所有業務。我們很難判斷它是否會進入人工智慧食物鏈的特定部分。但我認為，總的來說，我們的許多客戶都需要這種能力。許多客戶正以更強的意識試圖進入該市場。因此，他們正在增強產能，而這正是我們看到的設備訂單，正如我們所說，過去幾個季度設備訂單一直很強勁。

So I think it's a little hard for us to tell specifically what that substrate or that HDI MLB is going towards. But I think in general, HDI-type chips require a lot more layers in HDI, more layers in MLB, and that's why that is the application these customers are asking for.

因此，我認為我們很難具體說出該基板或 HDI MLB 的目標是什麼。但我認為，一般來說，HDI 類型的晶片需要更多的 HDI 層數和更多的 MLB 層數，這就是這些客戶所要求的應用。

Okay. Thanks. And then maybe a follow-up on OpEx. Are you guys still seeing the $250 million to $260 million range for fiscal '25? And then maybe 2026, where do you guys see you're investing in your business? Thanks.

好的。謝謝。然後也許會跟進 OpEx。你們還認為 25 財年的營收範圍是 2.5 億至 2.6 億美元嗎？那麼也許到 2026 年，你們認為你們會在哪裡投資自己的事業？謝謝。

Yeah, David, this is Ram. I would keep the $250 million to $260 million as the range for Q4. We are not guiding beyond Q3, but that's a useful range to model. As you saw in Q2 and our guidance for Q3, we are at the lower end of that rate. So OpEx is something we take very seriously and try and manage while making the investments needed for the company's long-term success. So it's a balance between meeting profitability and investments for long-term success. But it's something which we watch very carefully.

是的，大衛，這是拉姆。我將第四季的營收範圍維持在 2.5 億美元至 2.6 億美元之間。我們不會對 Q3 之後的情況進行指導，但這是一個有用的建模範圍。正如您在第二季和我們對第三季的預測中所看到的，我們處於該比率的低端。因此，我們非常重視營運支出，並在進行公司長期成功所需的投資的同時嘗試管理營運支出。因此，這需要在獲利能力和長期成功投資之間取得平衡。但我們會非常仔細地觀察這件事。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Shane Brett, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Shane Brett。

I just have one. So in the June quarter, your Specialty Industrial business grew quarter over quarter for the first time since I think June quarter of '23, if I'm correct. I know you're guiding the September quarter down a touch sequentially, but are there any positive lead indicators in that business that you would call out? Thank you.

我只有一個。因此，如果我沒記錯的話，在 6 月季度，您的特種工業業務自 2023 年 6 月季度以來首次實現環比成長。我知道您預計 9 月季度的業績將比上一季略有下降，但是您是否認為該業務方面存在一些積極的領先指標？謝謝。

Yeah, Shane, I think as you know, our Specialty Industrial segment is made up of several different markets. And I would say, in general, Industrials has been muted and remains muted. I would say that. Defense has been a bright spot, growing quite a bit. And Life and Health sciences remains relatively stable. So lots of puts and takes, but I think those are the ones I would point out.

是的，Shane，我想如你所知，我們的專業產業部門由幾個不同的市場組成。我想說，總體而言，工業板塊一直處於低迷狀態，並且將繼續保持低迷狀態。我會這麼說。防守一直是亮點，進步很大。生命與健康科學領域保持相對穩定。因此有很多的得失，但我認為這些就是我要指出的。

Got it. Thank you very much.

知道了。非常感謝。

This concludes the question-and-answer portion of our session. I would now like to turn it back to Paretosh Misra, Vice President of Investor Relations, for closing remarks. The floor is yours.

本次會議的問答部分到此結束。現在我想請投資人關係副總裁 Paretosh Misra 致最後總結。現在輪到你了。

Thank you all for joining us today and for your interest in MKS. Gerard, you may close the call, please.

感謝大家今天的參與以及對 MKS 的關注。杰拉德，請你結束通話。

Thank you, and thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

謝謝大家，也謝謝大家參加今天的發表會。該計劃確實就此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。