萬機儀器 (MKSI) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the MKS third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Paretosh Misra. Please go ahead.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 MKS 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。現在我謹將會議交給今天的第一位發言人，帕雷托什·米斯拉。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. I'm Paretosh Misra, Vice President of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by John Lee, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Ram Mayampurath, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Yesterday, after market close, we released our financial results for the third quarter of 2025 which are posted to our investor website at investor.mks.com.

各位早安。我是投資者關係副總裁帕雷托什·米斯拉，今天早上和我一起的有總裁兼首席執行官約翰·李，以及執行副總裁兼首席財務官拉姆·馬亞姆普拉特。昨天收盤後，我們發布了 2025 年第三季的財務業績，這些業績已發佈在我們的投資者網站 investor.mks.com 上。

As a reminder, various remarks about future expectations, plans and prospects for MKS comprise forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially as a result of various important factors, including those discussed in yesterday's press release, our most recent annual report on Form 10-K, and any subsequent quarterly reports on Form 10-Q. These statements represent the company's expectations only as of today and should not be relied upon as representing the company's estimates or views as of any date subsequent to today, and the company disclaims any obligation to update these statements.

提醒各位，有關 MKS 未來預期、計劃和前景的各種評論均屬於前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能因各種重要因素而與預期存在重大差異，這些因素包括昨天的新聞稿、我們最新的 10-K 表格年度報告以及任何後續的 10-Q 表格季度報告中討論的因素。這些聲明僅代表本公司截至今日的預期，不應被視為代表本公司在今日之後任何日期的估計或觀點，本公司不承擔更新這些聲明的任何義務。

During the call, we will be discussing various non-GAAP financial measures. Unless otherwise noted, all income statement-related financial measures will be non-GAAP other than revenue and gross margin. Please refer to our press release and the presentation materials posted to the Investor Relations section of our website for information regarding our non-GAAP financial results and a reconciliation to our GAAP measures. Our investor website also provides a detailed breakout of revenues by end market and division.

在電話會議中，我們將討論各種非GAAP財務指標。除非另有說明，除收入和毛利率外，所有與損益表相關的財務指標均為非公認會計準則 (Non GAAP)。有關我們的非GAAP財務表現以及與GAAP指標的調節表，請參閱我們網站投資者關係部分發布的新聞稿和簡報資料。我們的投資者網站也提供了按終端市場和部門劃分的詳細收入明細。

Now I'll turn the call over to John.

現在我把電話交給約翰。

Thanks, Paretosh, and good morning, everyone. MKS delivered a solid third quarter with revenue and EPS in the upper half of our guided ranges and healthy results across each of our three end markets. Third quarter revenue of $988 million was up 10% year-over-year, driven by strong demand in our semiconductor and electronics and packaging end markets.

謝謝帕雷托什，大家早安。MKS 第三季業績穩健，營收和每股盈餘均達到預期範圍的上半部分，三大終端市場均取得良好業績。第三季營收達 9.88 億美元，年增 10%，主要得益於半導體、電子和封裝終端市場的強勁需求。

We continue to demonstrate strong execution in delivering value to our customers' most critical needs. Net earnings per diluted share totaled $1.93. We also continue to take advantage of our improved cash flow to reduce our leverage with another voluntary prepayment of $100 million on our term loan completed in October. MKS is uniquely positioned at the forefront of accelerating innovation and enabling the advanced technologies that power the AI era.

我們持續展現強大的執行力，為客戶最關鍵的需求創造價值。每股攤薄淨收益總計 1.93 美元。我們也繼續利用改善的現金流來降低槓桿率，並在 10 月完成了對定期貸款 1 億美元的自願提前償還。MKS 擁有獨特的優勢，處於加速創新和推動人工智慧時代先進技術發展的前沿。

Increasing device complexity is creating significant challenges and opportunities in both the semiconductor and advanced packaging markets. We are differentiated in our ability to serve many critical applications with our comprehensive portfolio of semiconductor capital equipment subsystems advanced packaging chemistries and advanced packaging equipment systems. Our C3 performance in our end market demonstrates how we are benefiting in this dynamic environment.

裝置複雜性的不斷提高，為半導體和先進封裝市場都帶來了巨大的挑戰和機會。我們憑藉全面的半導體資本設備子系統、先進封裝化學和先進封裝設備系統產品組合，能夠服務許多關鍵應用，從而脫穎而出。我們在終端市場的 C3 表現表明，我們在這個充滿活力的環境中是如何受益的。

Starting with our semiconductor market, we reported solid revenue growth year-over-year, driven by continued strength in our products supporting deposition and etching applications which are increasingly critical for advanced memory and logic manufacturing. Our dissolved gas systems for advanced logic applications were also a solid contributor to our performance, and our services business continues to contribute steady year-over-year growth.

從半導體市場來看，我們實現了穩健的同比增長，這主要得益於我們支持沉積和蝕刻應用的產品持續強勁增長，這些應用對於先進的存儲器和邏輯製造而言越來越重要。我們用於先進邏輯應用的溶解氣體系統也為我們的業績做出了重要貢獻，我們的服務業務也持續保持穩定的年成長。

Lower NAND upgrade activity, which was expected after a very strong second quarter, drove the sequential decline in semiconductor sales. However, our leadership in power delivery remains as strong as ever in this space. We expect fourth quarter semiconductor revenue to remain flat on a sequential basis, which would translate into a healthy double-digit year-over-year growth for 2025. This underscores how well positioned we are with the broadest portfolio of products and technologies to drive our industry's increasingly challenging technology road maps.

在第二季表現強勁之後，NAND快閃記憶體升級活動的減少（這也在意料之中）導致了半導體銷售額的環比下降。然而，我們在該領域的電力供應領導地位依然穩固。我們預計第四季半導體營收將環比持平，這將轉化為 2025 年兩位數的年成長。這凸顯了我們擁有最廣泛的產品和技術組合，在推動產業日益嚴峻的技術發展路線圖方面所佔據的優勢地位。

In Electronics & Packaging, revenue exceeded the midpoint of our expectations, growing 25% year-over-year. This strong performance reflects continued momentum across our portfolio, driven by robust demand for our chemistry solutions and, in particular, our chemistry equipment. The investments we have made over the past several years to position MKS to optimize the interconnect in advanced electronics are now paying off as we gain momentum in AI-related applications.

在電子與包裝領域，收入超過了我們預期的中位數，年增 25%。這一強勁的業績反映了我們產品組合的持續成長勢頭，這得益於市場對我們化學解決方案，特別是化學設備的強勁需求。過去幾年，我們為使 MKS 能夠優化先進電子產品中的互連技術而進行的投資，現在正獲得回報，我們在人工智慧相關應用領域獲得了發展勢頭。

Today, our chemistry revenue growth reflects our position as a leader of the most advanced package technologies used in high-performance computing applications. Longer term, our chemistry equipment business highlights how critical we are to our customers as they rapidly build their next-generation infrastructure.

如今，我們的化學業務收入成長反映了我們作為高效能運算應用領域最先進封裝技術的領導者的地位。從長遠來看，我們的化學設備業務凸顯了我們對客戶的重要性，因為客戶正在快速建立下一代基礎設施。

The high attach rates from our equipment sales are a leading indicator of sustainable longer-term revenue from our proprietary chemistries. It's important to keep in mind that once we build and install the equipment, it can take 6 to 12 months for customers to qualify it and then put it into production. Once in production, chemistry provides a long tail, steady consumable revenue generally for the life of that equipment.

我們設備銷售的高附加率是我們專有化學技術能夠帶來可持續長期收入的領先指標。需要注意的是，一旦我們建造並安裝了設備，客戶可能需要 6 到 12 個月的時間才能完成設備驗證並投入生產。一旦投入生產，化學品就能提供長期穩定的消耗品收入，通常在設備的整個使用壽命期間都是如此。

With high single-digit growth in chemistry revenues and strong equipment sales through Q3, we have confidence our proprietary chemistry will be a key revenue generator for us in the years ahead. In Q4, we expect revenue from our electronics and packaging market to be up on a sequential basis and up double digits on a year-over-year basis. Our strong performance reflects our ability to capture emerging AI-driven demand, even as broader industry demand trends remain stable in markets such as smartphones and PCs.

第三季化學品收入實現了高個位數成長，設備銷售也十分強勁，我們有信心，我們專有的化學品將在未來幾年成為我們重要的收入來源。預計第四季度，我們來自電子和包裝市場的收入將環比增長，並與去年同期相比成長兩位數。我們強勁的業績反映了我們能夠抓住新興的人工智慧驅動需求，即使智慧型手機和個人電腦等市場的整體行業需求趨勢保持穩定。

We anticipate continued strength in our chemistry equipment business, supported by AI offset by modest sequential declines in chemistry due to seasonal factors consistent with prior years. Assuming the midpoint of our Q4 guidance, our electronics and packaging business is on track to deliver robust full year growth of approximately 20%.

我們預計，在人工智慧的支持下，我們的化學設備業務將繼續保持強勁勢頭，但受季節性因素影響，化學業務將出現與往年一致的小幅環比下滑。假設我們第四季業績指引的中點成立，我們的電子和包裝業務預計將實現全年約 20% 的強勁成長。

Our specialty industrial market revenue was consistent with the stable trends we've seen over the past several quarters. Within this market, the industrial category showed sequential improvement. In life and health sciences and research and defense end markets remain steady.

我們的特種工業市場收入與過去幾季以來的穩定趨勢保持一致。在這個市場中，工業類別呈現逐年改善的趨勢。生命科學、健康科學、研究和國防等終端市場保持穩定。

We had a healthy quarter of design wins, particularly in research and defense. This success highlights how MKS leverages its semi and electronics R&D investments to unlock new opportunities in specialty industrial markets that generate attractive incremental margins and cash flow. Looking ahead to Q4, we expect specialty industrial revenue to remain relatively flat sequentially.

本季我們獲得了不少設計訂單，尤其是在科學研究和國防領域。這項成功凸顯了 MKS 如何利用其半導體和電子研發投資，在專業工業市場中開拓新機遇，產生可觀的增量利潤和現金流。展望第四季度，我們預期特種工業收入將較上季保持相對穩定。

Overall, MKS is continuing to perform at a high level in 2025, with year-over-year growth powered by our semiconductor in electronics and packaging markets. Our broad portfolio of differentiated products and technologies in areas such as vacuum, power, photonics, laser drilling and advanced chemistries positions us favorably to win new opportunities in applications critical to enabling the AI transformation.

總體而言，MKS 在 2025 年繼續保持高水準的業績，在電子和封裝市場的半導體業務推動下，實現了同比增長。我們在真空、電力、光子學、雷射鑽孔和先進化學等領域擁有廣泛的差異化產品和技術組合，這使我們能夠在對人工智慧轉型至關重要的應用領域贏得新的機會。

Against this exciting backdrop, we are executing with financial discipline, aligning our business to win in our key markets and reducing our leverage. I'll close, I extend my thanks to our MKS team for their tireless work driving the great results we are reporting today and also to our customers and our suppliers across the globe for their collaboration and support.

在這種令人興奮的背景下，我們秉持財務紀律，調整業務以在關鍵市場取得成功，並降低槓桿率。最後，我要感謝我們的 MKS 團隊，感謝他們為取得我們今天所報告的優異成績所付出的不懈努力；同時，我也要感謝全球各地的客戶和供應商，感謝他們的合作與支持。

With that, let me turn it over to Ram to run through the financial results and fourth quarter guidance in more detail. Ram?

接下來，我將把發言權交給 Ram，讓他更詳細地介紹財務表現和第四季業績展望。記憶體？

Thank you, John, and good morning, everyone. We delivered strong results in the third quarter, driven by healthy demand in our semiconductor and electronics and packaging end markets and continued stability in our specialty industrial end market. As in prior quarters, our execution remains strong with healthy margins, robust free cash flow and continued progress on our deleveraging goals. Third quarter revenue was $988 million, up 2% sequentially and up 10% year-over-year.

謝謝你，約翰，大家早安。第三季度，我們取得了強勁的業績，這得益於半導體、電子和封裝終端市場的良好需求以及特種工業終端市場的持續穩定。與前幾季一樣，我們的執行力依然強勁，利潤率健康，自由現金流充裕，並且在降低槓桿率方面持續取得進展。第三季營收為 9.88 億美元，季增 2%，年增 10%。

The result was at the high end of our guidance and reflected better-than-expected trends in key end markets. Third quarter semiconductor revenue was $415 million, down 4% sequentially but up 10% year-over-year. This result was at the high end of our expectations. The sequential decline was driven by lower RF power sales due to the timing of NAND upgrade activity as expected. The year-over-year growth was driven by strength in many product categories, including our vacuum products and plasma and reactive gas businesses. The fundamentals of our semiconductor business remains strong.

結果處於我們預期範圍的高端，並反映了主要終端市場優於預期的發展趨勢。第三季半導體營收為 4.15 億美元，季減 4%，但年增 10%。這個結果超出了我們的預期。正如預期的那樣，由於 NAND 升級活動的時機，射頻功率銷售額下降，導致銷量環比下降。年比成長主要得益於許多產品類別的強勁表現，包括我們的真空產品以及等離子體和反應氣體業務。我們的半導體業務基本面依然強勁。

Third quarter Electronics & Packaging revenue was $289 million, up 9% sequentially and driven by growth in our chemistry and Equipment businesses. On a year-over-year basis, sales were up 25% and driven by growth in chemistry, chemistry equipment and flexible PCB drilling equipment sales.

第三季電子與包裝業務營收為 2.89 億美元，季增 9%，主要得益於化學品和設備業務的成長。與去年同期相比，銷售額成長了 25%，主要得益於化學品、化學設備和柔性 PCB 鑽孔設備的銷售成長。

These strong results underscore the strength of our electronics and packaging business as we deliver enabling technologies for high-growth emerging AI applications and today's advanced consumer electronics. Chemistry revenue was up 10% year-over-year, excluding the impact of FX and palladium pass-through, continuing the strong growth trend over the last year.

這些強勁的業績凸顯了我們在電子和封裝業務方面的實力，我們為高成長的新興人工智慧應用和當今先進的消費性電子產品提供了支援技術。不計外匯和鈀金價格變動的影響，化學業務收入年增 10%，延續了過去一年的強勁成長趨勢。

In our specialty industrial market, third quarter revenue was $284 million, an increase of 3% sequentially mainly due to the improvement in the industrial market. Revenue was down 1% on a year-over-year basis. Overall, our specialty industrial business has remained steady for well over a year. Third quarter gross margin was 46.6%, just above the midpoint of our guidance. Gross margin was stable relative to the prior quarter, with tariff impact of about 80 basis points, 35 basis points better than last quarter, offset by a higher mix of chemistry equipment sales.

在我們的專業工業市場，第三季營收為 2.84 億美元，季增 3%，這主要歸功於工業市場的改善。營收年減1%。總體而言，我們的特種工業業務在過去一年多的時間裡一直保持穩定。第三季毛利率為 46.6%，略高於我們預期的中位數。與上一季相比，毛利率保持穩定，關稅影響約為 80 個基點，比上一季好 35 個基點，但被化學設備銷售佔比提高所抵銷。

As we have stated before, the strong equipment sales we have seen throughout 2025 are a good indicator of future high-margin chemistry revenues. Third quarter operating expenses were $256 million at the high end of our guidance and higher sequentially, primarily as a result of an increase in variable costs, mostly related to employee incentive compensation tied to stronger business performance.

正如我們之前所說，2025 年全年強勁的設備銷售預示著未來高利潤的化學品收入。第三季營運支出為 2.56 億美元，處於我們預期的高端，並且環比成長，主要原因是可變成本增加，而可變成本主要與業務表現增強相關的員工激勵性薪酬有關。

Third quarter operating income was $205 million with an operating margin of 20.8%. Third quarter adjusted EBITDA was $240 million and above the midpoint of our expectations with adjusted EBITDA margin of 24.3%.

第三季營業收入為 2.05 億美元，營業利益率為 20.8%。第三季調整後 EBITDA 為 2.4 億美元，高於我們預期的中點，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 24.3%。

Net interest expenses was $45 million, in line with our guidance. Third quarter effective tax rate was 17.9% and just below the midpoint of our guidance. Third quarter net earnings were $130 million or $1.93 per diluted share and above the midpoint of our guidance. Free cash flow generation was very strong at $147 million, representing over 100% of our net earnings and 15% of our revenue.

淨利息支出為 4500 萬美元，與我們的預期一致。第三季實際稅率為 17.9%，略低於我們預期的中點。第三季淨利為 1.3 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.93 美元，高於我們先前預期的中位數。自由現金流產生非常強勁，達到 1.47 億美元，占我們淨利潤的 100% 以上，占我們收入的 15%。

Through the first three quarters of 2025, we generated cumulative free cash flow of $405 million, nearly as much as we did in all of 2024. We invested $50 million in capital expenditure in the quarter. We expect CapEx to sequentially increase in Q4 but fall within the low end of our annual CapEx guidance of 4% to 5% of revenue.

2025 年前三個季度，我們累計產生了 4.05 億美元的自由現金流，幾乎與 2024 年全年的自由現金流一樣多。本季我們在資本支出方面投入了5000萬美元。我們預計第四季度資本支出將環比增長，但仍將處於我們年度資本支出指導目標（佔收入的 4% 至 5%）的下限範圍內。

We closed the quarter with approximately $1.4 billion of liquidity compared to cash and cash equivalents of $697 million and our undrawn revolving credit facility of $675 million. As John highlighted, we made a voluntary principal prepayment of $100 million in October. In total, we have made $400 million in voluntary payments thus far in 2025. We remain focused on executing our long-term capital allocation priorities of investing in organic growth opportunities while reducing our leverage through principal prepayments and working with our vacuum partners to reduce our interest expenses as market opportunities arise.

本季末，我們的流動資金約為 14 億美元，而現金及現金等價物為 6.97 億美元，未提取的循環信貸額度為 6.75 億美元。正如約翰所強調的，我們在 10 月自願提前償還了 1 億美元的本金。截至目前，2025 年我們已累計支付了 4 億美元的自願繳款。我們將繼續專注於執行長期資本配置優先事項，即投資於內生成長機會，同時透過提前償還本金降低槓桿率，並與我們的真空合作夥伴合作，在市場機會出現時降低利息支出。

We exited the quarter with a gross debt of $4.4 billion and net leverage ratio of 3.9 times based on our trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA of $953 million. We continue to bring down our net leverage ratio as we generate strong free cash flow, make proactive principal prepayments and deliver high year-over-year adjusted EBITDA. Finally, during the quarter, we paid a dividend of $0.22 per share or $15 million.

本季末，我們的總債務為 44 億美元，淨槓桿率為 3.9 倍，基於過去 12 個月的調整後 EBITDA 為 9.53 億美元。我們持續降低淨槓桿率，同時產生強勁的自由現金流，積極提前償還本金，並實現逐年增長的調整後 EBITDA。最後，本季我們派發了每股 0.22 美元的股息，總計 1,500 萬美元。

Let me now turn to our fourth quarter outlook. The guidance we are providing represents our best estimate based on the dynamic trade environment in which we are operating. We expect revenue of $990 million, plus or minus $40 million. By end market, we expect semiconductor revenue to be $415 million, plus or minus $15 million, reflecting the continued strong fundamentals of our business.

現在讓我來談談我們第四季的展望。我們提供的指導意見是我們根據當前動態貿易環境做出的最佳預測。我們預計營收為9.9億美元，上下浮動4000萬美元。按終端市場劃分，我們預計半導體收入為 4.15 億美元，上下浮動 1500 萬美元，這反映了我們業務持續強勁的基本面。

Revenue from electronics and packaging market is expected to be $295 million, plus or minus $10 million, which would be up 16% year-over-year at midpoint. As we look to model 2026, we would remind you that chemistry equipment revenue is poised to have a record year in 2025 and has historically varied significantly from year-to-year. Chemistry revenue which is the majority of our E&P revenue is much steadier and more predictable.

預計電子和包裝市場的收入為 2.95 億美元，上下浮動 1000 萬美元，以中間值計算，年增 16%。展望 2026 年，我們想提醒您，化學設備收入預計在 2025 年創下歷史新高，但歷史上每年的收入波動幅度很大。化學業務收入占我們勘探與生產業務收入的大部分，而且更穩定且可預測。

Revenue from our specialty industrial market is expected to remain relatively steady at $280 million, plus or minus $15 million. We are guiding gross margin of 46%, plus or minus 100 basis points. The sequential decline is due to higher chemistry equipment sales in the mix and lower chemistry sales due to seasonality, partially offset by lower tariff-related impacts.

預計我們來自特種工業市場的收入將保持相對穩定，為 2.8 億美元，上下浮動 1500 萬美元。我們預期毛利率為 46%，上下浮動 100 個基點。環比下降是由於化學設備銷售額佔比增加以及季節性因素導致化學品銷售下降，部分被關稅相關影響降低所抵消。

We anticipate our mitigation actions will nearly offset tariff cost dollar for dollar beginning in Q4. However, these costs are passed through 0 margins, and we anticipate tariff will continue to dilute our gross margin in Q4 and moving forward by approximately 50 basis points.

我們預計，從第四季度開始，我們的緩解措施將幾乎完全抵消關稅成本。然而，這些成本並未透過利潤率轉嫁，我們預計關稅將在第四季及以後繼續將我們的毛利率稀釋約 50 個基點。

With our mitigation initiatives in place, we remain confident and our plan to deliver our long-term gross margin objective of 47% plus. We expect fourth quarter operating expense of $255 million, plus or minus $5 million. As a reminder, OpEx is typically higher in Q1 as a result of higher stock-based compensation and fringe benefits consistent with prior years.

憑藉我們採取的緩解措施，我們仍然有信心實現長期毛利率目標，即 47% 以上。我們預計第四季營運支出為 2.55 億美元，上下浮動 500 萬美元。需要提醒的是，由於股票選擇權激勵和福利支出較高，第一季的營運支出通常較高，這與往年一致。

We expect fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA of $235 million plus or minus $24 million. We expect tax rate of approximately 2% in the fourth quarter benefiting from certain favorable discrete tax items in the quarter and bringing our full year tax rate to just over 14%. We expect fourth quarter net earnings per diluted share of $2.27 plus or minus $0.34.

我們預計第四季度調整後 EBITDA 為 2.35 億美元，上下浮動 2,400 萬美元。我們預計第四季度稅率約為 2%，這得益於該季度某些有利的個別稅收項目，並將使我們全年的稅率略高於 14%。我們預計第四季每股攤薄淨收益為 2.27 美元，上下浮動 0.34 美元。

Wrapping up, MKS is executed at a high level through the third quarter, and we are expecting this momentum to continue in Q4. We are winning exciting opportunities across our semiconductor and electronics and packaging end markets, and we are focused on managing our business with discipline to drive profitability and free cash flow. We remain focused on reducing our leverage. With our broad portfolio of products, strong secular tailwinds and an improving balance sheet, MKS is in a great position as we look to 2026.

綜上所述，MKS 在第三季執行水準很高，我們預計這種勢頭將在第四季度繼續保持。我們在半導體、電子和封裝終端市場贏得了令人振奮的機遇，我們專注於以嚴謹的態度管理業務，以提高盈利能力和自由現金流。我們將繼續專注於降低槓桿率。憑藉我們廣泛的產品組合、強勁的長期發展趨勢和不斷改善的資產負債表，MKS 在展望 2026 年時處於非常有利的地位。

With that, operator, please open the call for Q&A.

操作員，請開啟問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Melissa Weathers, Deutsche Bank.

梅麗莎‧韋瑟斯，德意志銀行。

I think first, I want to touch on the E&P side. You said a couple of times in your commentary that equipment orders generally precede chemistry orders, and that can take about 6 to 12 months. You also mentioned that chemistries were at, I think, a record year in 2025. But I was quite clear on how you were guiding 2026, whether or not that should maybe come down or be stable. So any color on how we should be thinking about the chemistries flow through into 2026 after all the strong equipment sales?

我想先談談勘探與生產方面。你在評論中多次提到，設備訂單通常先於化學品訂單，這可能需要 6 到 12 個月的時間。您也提到，我認為，2025 年化學領域達到了創紀錄的一年。但我很清楚你對 2026 年的指導方針，無論是下調還是保持穩定。那麼，在經歷了強勁的設備銷售之後，我們該如何看待2026年化學品流通的趨勢呢？

Melissa, it's John. Thanks for the question. So we're not really guiding 2026, obviously, or chemistry or for the company. But I would say this, the equipment that we are building and installing now puts us in a very good position for additional chemistry revenue starting in '26 and forward.

梅麗莎，我是約翰。謝謝你的提問。所以，顯然我們並沒有真正指導 2026 年的發展，也沒有指導化學領域或公司的發展。但我想說的是，我們現在正在建造和安裝的設備使我們處於非常有利的地位，從 2026 年開始，我們將獲得更多的化學品收入。

I would say this, we really look at the whole market and its growth, and we've kind of said in our E&P market, we would grow 300 basis points above GDP. And that was what we said at the Analyst Day, and that was made up of higher growth substrate business, single -- mid-single-digit HDI business and GDP-type MLB business.

我想說的是，我們真正關注的是整個市場及其成長，我們已經說過，在我們的勘探與生產市場，我們的成長速度將比 GDP 高出 300 個基點。這就是我們在分析師日上所說的，它由高成長基礎業務、個位數至中等個位數 HDI 業務和 GDP 類型的 MLB 業務組成。

And those numbers are what we're staying with for now. But obviously, when we gave those numbers, AI was in the mix, right? And so I think, generally, things are better -- and I would say our ability to hit the 300 basis points above GDP, our longer-term target, is that we're very confident in that fundamentally because we are shipping a lot of that equipment and a lot of chemistry that goes with it. will help us get to those longer-term targets.

目前我們就暫定使用這些數字。但很顯然，當我們給出這些數據時，人工智慧也參與其中，對吧？所以我認為，總體而言，情況有所好轉——而且我認為，我們實現高於GDP 300個基點的長期目標的能力非常有信心，因為我們正在交付大量的設備和與之配套的化學品，這將有助於我們實現這些長期目標。

Okay. And then maybe on the semiconductor side. It seems we've seen some really positive pricing data points in memory in the last couple of weeks or months. And I think a lot of people are expecting a shortage situation in memory in 2026. So can you talk about like the order patterns that you guys saw in the quarter? Have you seen an acceleration in orders ahead of maybe potential capacity additions in the memory space?

好的。然後或許還會涉足半導體領域。在過去幾週或幾個月裡，我們似乎在記憶體中看到了一些非常積極的定價資料點。我認為很多人都預計到 2026 年記憶體將出現短缺。那麼，你們能談談本季觀察到的訂單模式嗎？您是否注意到，在記憶體領域可能增加產能之前，訂單量已加速成長？

Yes. We read the same reports as you do Melissa. So I think in general, we're happy that memory is recovering. Pricing is recovering and that the industry is moving towards a more constrained, supply constrained environment. And I think our customer is probably better to answer whether they're going to be ordering more equipment from us. But certainly, in general, I think everything is positive in the trend towards memory equipment.

是的。梅麗莎，我們和你一樣，也讀過同樣的報告。所以總的來說，我認為我們很高興看到記憶力正在恢復。價格正在回升，產業正朝著供應更加受限的環境發展。我認為，我們的客戶可能更適合回答他們是否會向我們訂購更多設備。但總的來說，我認為儲存設備的發展趨勢是正面的。

Jim Ricchiuti, Needham & Company.

吉姆‧里奇烏蒂 (Jim Ricchiuti)，李約瑟公司。

Wondering if you could give us a little bit of a better sense within the E&P business, and you can comment on Q3 or nine months? How much of that growth is actually coming from equipment, which admittedly has been strong, and we know it can be a little bit lumpy?

能否請您更詳細地介紹一下勘探與生產業務的情況，並談談第三季或前九個月的情況？其中有多少成長真正來自設備產業？誠然，設備產業成長強勁，但我們也知道設備產業的成長可能不太穩定。

Yes. Thanks for the question, Jim. I think we've said historically, when we looked at the MSD business, equipment can be anywhere from 5% of total revenue to 15%. And I would say because of the last four quarters of really strong revenues, orders and therefore, revenues were towards the higher end of that range and maybe a little higher than that. So it's really going to be probably the historic four quarters of a year for the equipment business.

是的。謝謝你的提問，吉姆。我認為我們之前說過，當我們審視默沙東的業務時，設備收入佔總收入的 5% 到 15% 不等。我認為，由於過去四個季度營收和訂單都非常強勁，因此營收接近該範圍的較高水平，甚至可能略高於該水平。所以，對於設備產業來說，這很可能將是具有歷史意義的四個季度。

Then, John, the -- also curious, there's another element of equipment in the PCB area. Are you seeing any signs of a cyclical pickup in the flex PCB drilling equipment business, just given somewhat improving smartphone shipments and I guess, the potential that there may be some form factor changes coming in the market next year?

然後，約翰，還有－－同樣令人好奇的是，PCB 區域還有另一個設備元件。鑑於智慧型手機出貨量有所改善，而且我猜想明年市場上可能會出現一些外形尺寸的變化，您是否看到柔性PCB鑽孔設備業務出現週期性回暖的跡象？

Yes, we are actually seeing a pickup in flex -- the business there, as you know, we're a market share leader in flex laser drilling. And so we have seen that pick up. And this is actually the second year where we've seen a healthy business there. It's not at the historic rates that were kind of in the 2000 time frame, 2021 time frame, but it has recovered to a very healthy level.

是的，我們確實看到柔性雷射鑽孔業務有所回升——正如您所知，我們在柔性雷射鑽孔領域是市場份額的領導者。所以我們已經看到了這種回升趨勢。事實上，這已經是該地區業務持續健康發展的第二年了。雖然還沒有達到 2000 年到 2021 年的歷史最高水平，但已經恢復到非常健康的水平。

Shane Brett, Morgan Stanley.

Shane Brett，摩根士丹利。

I want to follow up on the E&P question earlier, but considering that your chemistry sales for this year up high single digits, some back-of-envelope math indicates that your tooling business could be almost doubling this year? One, is that kind of the right way to think about it is that in the right ballpark? And just how much visibility do you have on equipment sales on a go-forward basis?

我想就之前提到的勘探與生產問題繼續討論，但考慮到你們今年的化學品銷售額實現了接近兩位數的增長，粗略估算一下，你們的工具業務今年可能會增長近一倍？第一，這種思考方式是否正確？這種思路是否切合實際？那麼，您對未來的設備銷售情況究竟有多大的了解呢？

I think your math is roughly right with respect to the equipment business for chemistry equipment. And then I think what we could say is that we've had four strong quarters of bookings for that chemistry -- and we can look out, certainly, the lead times of our equipment are 4 to 12 months. And so we have added some capacity even to some of our equipment factories -- not new buildings, but just expanding within the space that we have. And so we look forward to a couple more quarters at least of large equipment bills. We know that we have the backlog for that.

我認為你對化學儀器設備產業的計算大致正確。然後我認為我們可以說，我們已經連續四個季度獲得了該化學品的強勁預訂量——當然，我們可以注意，我們設備的交貨週期為 4 到 12 個月。因此，我們甚至在一些設備工廠增加了產能——不是新建廠房，而是在我們現有空間內進行擴建。因此，我們預計至少未來幾季還會出現大額設備帳單。我們知道我們在這方面積壓了很多工作。

Got it. And for my follow-up, so your semi customers have spoken about a pickup in equipment shipments from the second half of next year. And I think your peers have been kind of cautiously optimistic towards the pickup from Q2. Just where are you guys in terms of your expectations towards semi revenue cadence through 2026? And if there's sort of any idiosyncratic tailwinds for MKS that should drive your shipments above WFE in 2026, they are very helpful.

知道了。我的後續問題是，你們的半拖車客戶表示，從明年下半年開始，設備出貨量將會回升。我認為你們的同行對第二季的復甦一直持謹慎樂觀的態度。你們對2026年半導體產業營收成長的預期是什麼？如果 MKS 有任何特殊的利多因素，能夠推動其出貨量在 2026 年超過 WFE，那將非常有幫助。

Yes, certainly, we read the same things, and yes, a lot of folks are saying kind of second half '26 is where WFE really picks up. I think we're just focused on this quarter, next quarter and the next six months, I would say this. our semi revenue has improved double digits year-over-year on a quarterly basis as well as year-over-year. And this is really not with a lot of NAND upgrade, yes, right?

是的，當然，我們看到的也是同樣的說法，而且很多人都說 WFE 真正開始好轉是在 2026 年下半年。我認為我們現在只專注於本季、下季和未來六個月。我們的半導體業務收入無論按季度或按年計算，都實現了兩位數的同比增長。而且這真的不是因為進行了大量的 NAND 升級，對吧？

We had a good NAND upgrade in Q2, not so much in Q3. And so that's still yet to come. Certainly, our customers think that's going to happen. I think we know and we're very confident in our position in our power for the high aspect ratio dielectric edge we're very confident that when those upgrades occur, that will be us.

第二季我們進行了不錯的 NAND 升級，但第三季就沒那麼好了。所以，那件事尚未發生。當然，我們的客戶也認為這種情況會發生。我認為我們知道，我們對自己在高縱橫比介質邊緣領域的地位非常有信心，我們非常有信心，當這些升級發生時，我們將是第一個。

And then certainly, even without the NAND upgrade, you can see the broad portfolio of semiconductor critical subsystems we have continued to outgrow WFE even this year. And so we look forward to 2026, where WC follows the trend that people are expecting, another maybe high single-digit increase. We're going to enjoy some of that as well.

當然，即使沒有 NAND 升級，您也可以看到我們廣泛的半導體關鍵子系統產品組合，即使在今年，其成長速度也超過了 WFE。因此，我們期待 2026 年，WC 將延續人們預期的趨勢，再次實現接近兩位數的成長。我們也會享受其中的一些樂趣。

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

John, just to follow up on the previous question. If you do assume that in the second half of next year, let's just pick a time frame and say, in Q3 of next year's inflection, in theory, should you not start seeing it one quarter earlier? Or do you think there's something else different in this cycle?

約翰，我來補充一下之前的問題。如果你假設明年下半年出現拐點，我們隨便選個時間範圍，比如說明年第三季度，理論上，你不應該提前一個季度看到這種情況嗎？還是你認為這個週期還有其他不同之處？

No, in general, I think that's still true, Krish. We -- if our customers are shipping in Q3, for instance, to your assumption, then we would certainly see that at least a quarter ahead of time. Our lead times have come back to historically low lead times anywhere from four to eight weeks, sometimes four weeks depending on how complex the system is.

不，總的來說，我認為情況仍然如此，克里什。例如，如果我們的客戶按照您的假設在第三季度發貨，那麼我們肯定會提前至少一個季度看到發貨情況。我們的交貨週期已恢復到歷史最低水平，一般為四到八週，有時甚至只有四周，這取決於系統的複雜程度。

But in that four-week time frame and eight-week time frame, we do see a lot of in-quarter turns, as we've talked about in the last couple of quarters. So yes, I don't see any changes to that assumption, Krish.

但是，在四周和八週的時間範圍內，我們確實看到了許多季度內的轉變，正如我們在過去幾季中所討論的那樣。所以，是的，我認為這個假設不會有任何改變，克里什。

Got it. And then I just had a two-part question. One is, how much of your E&P sales was advanced packaging chemistry? And how much you think that was AI? And then on the PCB drilling side, are drill bits a constraint? And is that impacting your business? Or you're not seeing any of that?

知道了。然後我還有一個包含兩個部分的問題。第一個問題是，你們的探勘與生產銷售中有多少是先進包裝化學品？你認為這其中有多少是人工智慧的功勞？那麼在PCB鑽孔方面，鑽頭是否會成為限制因素呢？這是否對您的業務造成了影響？還是你根本沒看到這些？

Yeah. Maybe I'll talk about chemistry and how AI has played a part in that. In the past, we have talked about AI servers driving the top third of the PCB industry. The PCB industry calls that the substrate right? And that top third was -- the AI part of that top third was going from 5% to 10% to 15% of that top third of the PCB of the industry. Since then, though, as we now know, AI is also driving the equipment for HDI and [MLB]. This is the next third and the last third of the PCB industry.

是的。或許我會談談化學，以及人工智慧在其中扮演的角色。過去，我們曾討論過人工智慧伺服器如何驅動PCB產業前三分之一的發展。PCB產業稱之為基板，對吧？而這前三分之一──人工智慧部分在PCB產業前三分之一所佔的比例從5%上升到10%，再上升到15%。但正如我們現在所知，人工智慧也正在推動HDI設備的研發和發展。[MLB]這是印刷電路板產業的下一個​​三分之一，也是最後一個三分之一。

And of course, the chemistry that goes with those. So in general, our AI revenue has gone from -- for the chemistry, kind of that 5% of the total PC business, not just the opt to double that. over the last year. So the kind of 10%. If you had equipment to that, of course, we're pushing the mid-teen percentage of the MSD business due to AI.

當然，還有與之相關的化學反應。所以總的來說，我們的人工智慧收入已經從——就化學而言，約佔個人電腦總業務的 5%，不僅僅是選擇翻倍。在過去一年裡。所以就是那種10%的情況。當然，如果你有相應的設備，由於人工智慧，我們正在推動 MSD 業務達到 15% 的百分比。

I think your second question about maybe clarify your second question, it --

我認為你第二個問題可能需要澄清一下。--

I was just wondering on the PCB drilling side, is drill bits are constraint -- and is it impacting your PCB drilling business?

我只是想了解PCB鑽孔方面的情況，鑽頭是否是限制因素——這是否會影響你們的PCB鑽孔業務？

Yes, I don't know if I can comment on that, Bill, is we don't do that. That's a mechanical drilling, I think, what you're referring to. We're really doing laser drilling. But I have not heard that, that mechanical drilling is constrained in the industry.

是的，比爾，我不知道我是否可以對此發表評論，因為我們不做那種事。我想你指的是機械鑽孔吧。我們正在進行雷射鑽孔作業。但我從未聽說過機械鑽探在業界受到限制。

Michael Mani, BofA Securities.

Michael Mani，美國銀行證券。

On E&P, could you help us parse through when you look at your growth drivers, what is exactly secular versus more idiosyncratic to MKS. So I mean, it seems like a lot of the HCI and MLB momentum reflects some of this secular uptake in the AI. But Obviously, without a tech, you're able to go into many of these opportunities in both equipment and chemistry. So is there a share gain overlay aspect to it that you're seeing? Can you attribute these wins to that deal? Or is it mainly just broad-based secular growth?

關於勘探與生產，您能否幫助我們分析一下，在您審視成長驅動因素時，哪些是長期因素，哪些是MKS特有的因素？所以我的意思是，人機互動和MLB的發展勢頭似乎反映了人工智慧領域這種長期的普及趨勢。但顯然，即使沒有技術背景，你也可以在設備和化學領域中獲得許多這樣的機會。所以，你認為其中是否存在份額成長疊加效應？你認為這些勝利要歸功於那筆交易嗎？或者說，這主要只是廣泛的長期成長？

Yeah, I think it's both, Mike. So the regular growth is we're industry leader in it. And so more square meters of PCB boards on the chemistry can not just enjoy that. But I would say the thing that is different this time and that's beneficial for MKS is, the AI is driving these incredibly thick boards, many, many layers of HDI boards, substrate boards as well as MLB boards. And as we talked about, a lot of the equipment orders that we have gotten tied to AI for HDI and MLB are because our equipment is uniquely qualified to process much thicker boards.

是的，我認為兩者都是，麥克。所以，我們保持著穩定的成長，並且是該領域的行業領導者。因此，化學領域中更多的PCB板面積並不能僅僅享受這一點。但我認為這次與以往不同的一點，也是對 MKS 有利的一點是，人工智慧正在驅動這些極其厚的電路板，很多很多層的 HDI 板、基板以及 MLB 板。正如我們之前討論過的，我們收到的許多與 HDI 和 MLB 的 AI 相關的設備訂單，都是因為我們的設備具有獨特的優勢，可以處理更厚的板材。

We had to make modifications to the equipment, we did, and then we got those orders. Now as we said, we have very high attach rates of chemistry to our equipment. So if we are unique in being able to supply that equipment versus our competitors, we're also going to get that chemistry as we talked about in the call. So I think that's unique this time around.

我們不得不對設備進行改造，我們也確實這麼做了，然後我們就接到了那些訂單。正如我們所說，我們的設備具有非常高的化學物質附著率。因此，如果我們能夠提供這種設備而我們的競爭對手無法提供，那麼正如我們在電話會議中談到的那樣，我們也能獲得那種化學反應。所以我覺得這次的情況比較特殊。

Great. And maybe a question on gross margins. Given this flow-through from potentially higher chemistry revenues over the next couple of quarters, -- how should we be thinking about as a good baseline for gross margins through next year? It seems like volumes are training the right way you're getting -- you're having seen a little more of this margin accretive business. But -- just any way to think about auto model margins through '26?

偉大的。或許還會問一個關於毛利率的問題。鑑於未來幾季化學業務收入可能成長帶來的正面影響，我們應該如何看待明年毛利率的良好基準？看來銷量正在朝著正確的方向發展——你已經看到了更多這種能提高利潤率的業務。但是——有沒有什麼方法可以預測到 2026 年汽車車型的利潤率？

Michael, this is Rom. I'll take that. So if you look at the progress we have made in gross margin in 2024, all the way to Q1 of 2025, we were well over 47% in gross margin. Since then, a couple of things have happened. One is the impact of the mix that you talked about of very high fast growing equipment sales and the impact of tariffs.

邁克爾，我是羅姆。我接受。因此，如果您看一下我們在 2024 年到 2025 年第一季毛利率方面取得的進展，我們的毛利率已經遠遠超過 47%。從那時起，發生了一些事情。一是你提到的設備銷售快速成長帶來的組合影響，二是關稅的影響。

As we said in our prepared remarks, we have offset the impact of tariffs dollar per dollar, but we'll see ongoing 50 basis points impact on our gross margin because we are not marking up the tariffs that we pass through, right? So in time, we'll offset that with efficiency and ongoing operational excellence programs. And in the long term, with a normalized mix, we are very confident we can get back to that 47%-plus that we were having before.

正如我們在準備好的演講稿中所說，我們已經按美元對美元抵消了關稅的影響，但由於我們沒有將轉嫁的關稅加價，我們的毛利率將持續受到 50 個基點的影響，對吧？所以，隨著時間的推移，我們將透過提高效率和持續開展卓越營運計劃來彌補這一不足。從長遠來看，隨著成分股的正常化，我們非常有信心能夠恢復到之前 47% 以上的水平。

Matthew Prisco, Cantor.

馬修·普里斯科，領唱。

I guess to start, how do you see the NAND lumpiness playing out over the next handful of quarters? Kind of what are the primary moving parts you are focused on here as determinants for the linearity of that upgrade cycle?

首先，您認為未來幾季NAND快閃記憶體價格波動會如何發展？您主要關注哪些影響升級週期線性度的關鍵因素？

Yes, Matt, I wish I knew. But I would say this, we have plenty of capacity, manufacturing capacity to meet any kind of uptick in either upgrades or greenfield. And I think one of our key customers has said, there is a large opportunity still of upgrades just in the '26 and maybe beyond time frame. But they have said it's lumpy.

是的，馬特，我也希望我知道。但我想說的是，我們擁有充足的產能，足以應付任何升級改造或新建專案的成長。我認為我們的一位重要客戶曾表示，在 2026 年及以後的時間範圍內，仍有很大的升級機會。但他們說它表面凹凸不平。

But then I think overlay on top of that, the industry discussion of NAND pricing that I think Melissa asked earlier, that's just a tailwind, the discussion by many of the chip makers that NAND is now constrained.

但我認為，再加上之前梅麗莎提到的關於 NAND 定價的行業討論，這無疑是一個利好因素，許多晶片製造商都在討論 NAND 現在受到限制。

And then what's exciting is potentially a new application for NAND, driven by AI again, of course, which is in the cell -- replacing solar, solid state drives using more NAND for AI. and that would drive another layer of growth. So I think we're ready. It's lumpy, can be lumpy. We will certainly try to guide you guys as best we can in terms of when we see that coming -- and -- but things can change and things probably will change rapidly.

更令人興奮的是，NAND快閃記憶體可能在人工智慧的驅動下出現新的應用，那就是在晶片內部——用更多的NAND快閃記憶體來取代太陽能固態硬碟，從而推動人工智慧的發展。這將帶來新一輪的成長。所以我覺得我們已經準備好了。它表面凹凸不平，可能會有凹凸不平的地方。我們一定會盡我們所能地指導大家，告訴大家甚麼時候會發生這種情況——但是——情況可能會發生變化，而且變化可能很快。

And then maybe you can talk about progress you've made in the litho inspection and metrology part of your business, maybe remind us of kind of year-to-date highlights and what success would look like to the team from a share gain perspective through next year?

然後，您或許可以談談貴公司在光刻檢測和計量業務方面取得的進展，回顧一下今年迄今為止的亮點，以及從明年市場份額增長的角度來看，團隊認為成功是什麼樣的？

Yes, Matt, we have talked about world-class optics. This is our effort to gain more presence obviously in litho metrology inspection. And we talked about in the past, revenue from that sector kind of going from the $150 million to $300 million because we invested in it. And as you know, litho metrology inspection is a little flatter this past year. And so we're not immune to the cycles, but the cycles are more muted than in [dep and etch]. But we're really happy with some of the really difficult things that we have been asked to do and delivered on that are now integral to some of the most advanced lithographic machines in the world.

是的，馬特，我們討論過世界一流的光學器件。顯然，這是我們為在光刻計量檢測領域獲得更大影響力所做的努力。我們之前也討論過，由於我們對該領域進行了投資，該領域的收入將從 1.5 億美元增長到 3 億美元。如您所知，過去一年膠印計量檢測市場略顯疲軟。因此，我們並非不受週期性波動的影響，只是這些週期性波動比以往緩和得多。[沉積和蝕刻]。但我們很高興完成了一些非常困難的任務，這些任務現在已成為世界上一些最先進的光刻機的組成部分。

So we will continue to invest there and continue to try to grow that share. I don't think anybody would say litho metrology and specing won't be important to semi, right? It will always be important to semi, always be a key component of semi. And I think maybe stepping back a little bit, the strategy for MKS is to be a foundational technology supplier to the entire industry. So in one decade, Det etch is more important because it's multi-patterning. In the next decade, EUV takes over and the filmetrology inspection become a little more important.

因此，我們將繼續在那裡投資，並繼續努力擴大市場份額。我想應該沒有人會說光刻計量和規範對半導體產業來說不重要吧？它對半機械來說始終很重要，始終是半機械的關鍵組成部分。我認為，稍微退一步來看，MKS 的策略是成為整個產業的基礎技術供應商。因此，十年後，Det蝕刻變得更加重要，因為它具有多重圖案化能力。在接下來的十年裡，EUV 技術將佔據主導地位，而膠片計量學檢測也將變得更加重要。

And from an MKS standpoint, we kind of hope that all the markets grow. But if something shifts, then we can -- we don't have to worry about it shifting away from what we're doing.

從 MKS 的角度來看，我們希望所有市場都能成長。但如果情況發生變化，我們就可以——我們不必擔心它會偏離我們正在做的事情。

Steve Barger, KeyBanc Capital Markets. .

史蒂夫·巴格爾，KeyBanc Capital Markets。。

John, you alluded to some of this already, I think, but we've been reading that CoWoS or other packaging formats are evolving from organic interposer to RDL. From your perspective, is that just switching from 1 format you enable to another? Or is that evolution good for you due to more layers or smaller features?

約翰，我想你已經提到過其中的一些內容了，但我們一直看到有報道說，CoWoS 或其他包裝形式正在從有機中介層向 RDL 演變。從你的角度來看，這是否只是從一種啟用格式切換到另一種啟用格式？或者，這種演變對你來說是好事嗎？因為它增加了層次或縮小了特徵？

Yeah. I think the industry is certainly working hard on various configurations for this redistribution layer, the RDL layer using CoWoS, CoWoS-R, CoWoS-L and then even CoWoS, right, on TV. So I would say this, that RDL layer is more complex as we move to organic layers. That's good for us. That's our traditional strength, organic layers versus silicon.

是的。我認為業界肯定正在努力研究各種用於此重新分發層的配置，即使用 CoWoS、CoWoS-R、CoWoS-L 甚至 CoWoS 的 RDL 層，對吧，在電視上。所以我想說的是，隨著我們向有機層過渡，RDL 層變得更加複雜。這對我們來說是好事。這就是我們的傳統優勢，有機層相對於矽層而言。

And when you go to organic layers, the RDL layers increased a little bit, maybe from one layer to two or three -- so that's good for us. But I think the bigger picture the 40 layers beneath that, that are all the substrates and PCBs. And that's really the largest growth factor for us -- and that used to be 20 layers, now it's 40.

當有機層出現時，RDL 層數略有增加，可能從一層增加到兩層或三層——這對我們來說是好事。但我認為更重要的是下面的 40 層，那些是所有的基板和 PCB。這確實是我們最大的成長因素——以前是 20 層，現在是 40 層。

As we visit customers -- as we work with our customers, they're already looking at 80 layers. So think about that. It's gone from 20 to 40 just in the last couple of years. and we're working on 80. And the one after that is three digits. Let's put it that way in terms of number of layers of these layers made one at a time. you can imagine the challenges of yield, making sure that when you put 100 layers on top of each other that it still yields the same as if you had four.

當我們拜訪客戶——當我們與客戶合作時，他們已經在考慮 80 層了。所以好好想想。短短兩年內，這個數字就從20增加到了40，我們正在努力達到80。再下一個就是三位數了。我們不妨這樣理解：一層一層堆疊起來，你可以想像產量面臨的挑戰，如何確保堆疊100層後，產量仍然與堆疊4層時相同。

So those are great challenges for the industry and opportunities for us. So that's the bigger picture. At the same time, to your point, there's a lot of CoWoS-L/R/S and all that going on. We're involved in all of that. If it goes more towards organic that's a tailwind for us. But the bigger picture is 40 layers going to 80 going 100.

所以，這些對產業來說是巨大的挑戰，對我們來說也是機會。這就是大局。同時，正如你所說，現在有很多 CoWoS-L/R/S 之類的東西正在發生。我們參與了所有這些活動。如果有機農業發展得更迅猛，這對我們來說是個利好。但從長遠來看，是從 40 層到 80 層，再到 100 層。

Right. That's good detail. And just listening to some of the OS, this is being driven by compute right now, which is high growth, but smaller unit volume maybe -- but at some point, this likely transitions to like PC or mobile, higher-volume applications. Is that your understanding? And any view on like time line of when that could happen?

正確的。這個細節很到位。從一些作業系統方面來看，目前這是由計算驅動的，計算增長迅速，但單位數量可能較小——但在某種程度上，這很可能會過渡到 PC 或移動等更大容量的應用。你的理解是這樣嗎？那麼，對於這種情況何時可能發生，您有什麼看法？

Yeah. I think our view is consistent with the industry is that as inferencing goes out to PCs and phones and whatnot, The chips will be bigger and more complicated. There will be more chips that need to be integrated together. And therefore, there will be more layers of PCBs or substrates underneath. So that still has not really happened much yet, Steve. And so that's a huge potential growth driver for us. And I think everybody is working hard to make sure that things -- that AI drives this inferencing need. So think TBD, but we're optimistic that, that will happen or some form of that will happen.

是的。我認為我們的觀點與業界的普遍看法一致，即隨著推理技術擴展到個人電腦、手機等設備，晶片將會更大、更複雜。未來會有更多晶片需要整合在一起。因此，下面會有更多層的PCB或基板。所以，史蒂夫，這種情況目前還沒有真正發生太多。因此，這對我們來說是一個巨大的潛在成長動力。我認為大家都在努力確保人工智慧能夠滿足這種推理需求。所以目前還待定，但我們樂觀地認為，這件事會發生，或至少會以某種形式發生。

David Lu, Mizuho.

David Lu，瑞穗銀行。

On for Vijay. Maybe the first one on revenue by GE. Can you just highlight what types of trends you're looking at split by geo? I know your customers mentioned some write-offs, but there's also maybe some tailwinds in the US.

維傑上場。或許通用電氣營收方面會率先公佈這一數字。能否具體說明一下您正在按地理位置劃分的趨勢類型？我知道您的客戶提到了一些損失，但美國市場可能也存在一些利多因素。

Dave, just to me to understand your question, you wanted some color on revenue by geography?

Dave，我只是想確認你的問題是否正確，你是想了解按地域劃分的收入情況嗎？

Just what you're seeing in terms of the demand trends, yeah.

是的，正如你從需求趨勢中看到的。

Yes. Well, certainly, a lot of Asia is driving a lot of the growth, for sure. But as you know, -- some of that's coming back to the United States as well as the Japan and Europe as people start onshoring chip fabs and packaging fabs to that matter. But I think the other larger geographic trend is China Plus One trend as things move to Southeast Asia. As you know, we are building some factories in Southeast Asia to meet that demand because our customers are moving there.

是的。當然，亞洲地區無疑是推動經濟成長的主要力量。但如你所知，隨著人們開始將晶片製造廠和封裝廠遷回國內，其中一些業務正在回流到美國、日本和歐洲。但我認為另一個更大的地域趨勢是「中國+1」趨勢，即事物轉移到東南亞。如您所知，我們正在東南亞建造一些工廠以滿足市場需求，因為我們的客戶正在向那裡遷移。

So I think there is a lot of geographic movements in the industry today, especially the packaging industry, but also the chip industry, as you see fabs coming up in the United States, Europe, Japan and potentially India as well.

所以我認為，如今的行業，尤其是封裝行業，以及晶片行業，都出現了大量的地域性流動，正如你所看到的，美國、歐洲、日本，甚至可能還有印度，都湧現出了晶片製造廠。

Okay. And then I don't know any comment on the recent rumors of potentially selling the specialty coating divestiture.

好的。至於最近有關可能出售特種塗料業務的傳聞，我沒有任何評論。

Well, we're aware of those articles, but we really don't comment on market speculation, Dave?

嗯，我們知道那些文章，但我們真的不對市場猜測發表評論，戴夫？

Joe Quatrochi, Wells Fargo.

喬·夸特羅奇，富國銀行。

Yes. Maybe one on the semi side. Given the entity list affiliate rule, it looks like it's delayed. Have you seen any change in order patterns or discussions with your customers?

是的。或許是半個。根據實體清單關聯規則，看起來好像被延遲了。您是否發現訂單模式或與客戶的溝通方式有任何變化？

Yes. Thanks for the question, Joe. Not really because I think when that rule came out, we didn't have -- I don't think the industry had time to react, but some of our customers have said the impact is x, y, and z, but now it's late. So as you know, the tariff environment is kind of wake up every day and changes. So we really haven't had any kind of different discussions with our customers based on that specific role.

是的。謝謝你的提問，喬。倒也不是，因為我覺得那條規定出台的時候，我們——我覺得整個行業都沒時間做出反應，不過我們的一些客戶說它的影響是x、y和z，但現在為時已晚。如你所知，關稅環境每天都在變化。所以，我們並沒有根據這個具體角色與客戶進行任何不同的討論。

Got it. And then just your, I guess, conservative comments in terms of looking at like chemical growth into 2026. Is there a particular end market that you're maybe a little bit more conservative in the outlook for the smartphones or PCs, something like that?

知道了。然後，我想，你對 2026 年化學成長的展望持保守態度。您是否對智慧型手機或個人電腦等特定終端市場的前景持較保守的態度？

Yeah. I would say the PC and smartphone markets have been stable, if you will, go, but there are some things that could drive it higher in the future. We're just not sure if they will. One of which is new form factors for phones, multiples, for instance, more foldables. And the other ones that we talked about earlier, I think what Steve asked a question about inferencing cut out to phones and PCs, that certainly would be would change the outlook in terms of more of a growth outlook for PCs rather than kind of more stable, which is kind of our assumption.

是的。我認為個人電腦和智慧型手機市場一直保持穩定，但未來有些因素可能會推動其進一步成長。我們只是不確定他們是否會這樣做。其中之一是手機的新外形設計，例如多種可折疊手機。至於我們之前討論的其他問題，我認為史蒂夫提出的關於推理能力擴展到手機和個人電腦的問題，肯定會改變個人電腦的前景，使其更具成長潛力，而不是像我們之前假設的那樣更加穩定。

Mark Miller, The Benchmark Company. .

馬克·米勒，基準公司。。

Thank you for the question. You noted strength in dep and etch. Are you getting share in those areas?

謝謝你的提問。您提到了深度和蝕刻的優勢。你在這些地區獲得了市場份額嗎？

Yeah. I think we've had a traditional strength there in deposition that's kind of a legacy MKS business. I would say this, we gained share in multiple areas. We talked a little bit about even dissolved gas. And as the industry moves towards more advanced nodes like 2-nanometer, the ability to clean wafers, the ability to do soft etching and soft cleaning. These are all things that are driving some of our subsystems in the reactive gas part of our business.

是的。我認為我們在取證方面一直擁有傳統優勢，這算是 MKS 的傳統業務。我想說的是，我們在多個領域都獲得了市場份額。我們也簡單討論了一下溶解氣體。隨著產業朝向更先進的節點（如 2 奈米）發展，晶圓清洗能力、軟蝕刻和軟清洗能力也隨之提高。這些都是我們反應氣體業務中某些子系統的驅動因素。

So we've got a lot of good opportunities there that we've been capitalizing on. And of course, power for NAND is something that we are very confident. We will hold that share and as that grows, into higher aspect ratio edging for things like DRAM. And then we're working hard on conductor etch. And we have some great solutions there that our customers have told us are industry leading.

所以，我們在那裡有很多很好的機會，我們一直在充分利用這些機會。當然，我們對 NAND 的功耗非常有信心。我們將保持這一市場份額，隨著市場份額的成長，我們將轉向更高縱橫比的邊緣處理技術，例如用於 DRAM 等產品。然後我們正在努力進行導體蝕刻工作。我們有一些非常棒的解決方案，客戶告訴我們這些方案在業界處於領先地位。

I was wondering if you can give us some color on lasers and your outlook for next year from the laser business.

我想請您介紹一下雷射技術，並展望一下明年雷射產業的前景。

Yes, lasers has been a little muted because, as you know, lasers are used in industrial applications and industrial applications have been more muted than the last couple of years. PMI is still kind of hovering around that 50% or a little below. So I think we really have to see a change in that, Mark, before we would kind of see the lasers part of our business grow. .

是的，雷射技術最近有點沉寂，因為如你所知，雷射技術主要用於工業應用，而工業應用領域近年來發展相對緩慢。PMI指數仍徘徊在50%左右或略低於50%。所以我覺得，馬克，我們真的需要看到這方面有所改變，才能看到我們業務中的雷射部分有所成長。。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Jim Schneider, Goldman Sachs.

吉姆‧施耐德，高盛集團。

I was wondering if you could maybe kind of comment on -- given all the things we covered earlier with respect to tariffs, how you expect your direct China business to trend directionally heading into next year? What do you expect it to be sort of up, down or flat-ish?

我想請您談談—鑑於我們之前討論的關於關稅的種種問題，您預計明年貴公司直接面向中國的業務發展方向會如何？你覺得它會是上升、下降還是比較平穩？

Yes. Well, in China, we have two markets that go to China. The semiconductor equipment to rent to China. That's out of our numbers. We still sell a little bit there, what's allowed. So that's not -- that's been out of our numbers for a while. So we do have an indirect exposure in China based through our OEM customers, and that's well known.

是的。嗯，在中國，我們有兩個市場銷往中國。向中國出租半導體設備。這超出了我們的統計範圍。我們還在那裡賣一點東西，只要是允許的就好。所以，這個數字——這個數字已經從我們的統計數據中消失了一段時間了。因此，我們透過 OEM 客戶在中國擁有間接的業務，這是眾所周知的。

But then we also sell obviously advanced electronics packaging to customers in China. And that still remains a good portion of our business, but many of those customers are also building new capacity in Southeast Asia, as we talked about earlier. So we see that trend. Probably China will be a big part of our business from a packaging standpoint, not so much from the semi direct standpoint. And then things start moving, I think, outside of China from the packaging standpoint.

但同時，我們也向中國客戶銷售顯然非常先進的電子封裝產品。這仍然是我們業務的很大一部分，但正如我們之前所討論的，其中許多客戶也在東南亞建立新的產能。我們看到了這種趨勢。從包裝的角度來看，中國可能會成為我們業務的重要組成部分，但從半直接銷售的角度來看，則不會那麼重要。我認為，從包裝的角度來看，事情開始在中國以外的地區轉變。

And then maybe relative to your leverage target, you've talked consistently about 2 times in 2027. Maybe talk about sort of the level of urgency to get there. Could you achieve it perhaps a little bit earlier than that? And maybe talk about some of the levers you might pull to sort of achieve it.

然後，或許相對於你的槓桿目標而言，你曾多次提到在 2027 年達到 2 次。或許可以談談實現目標的迫切程度。您能否提前一點完成？或許還可以談談你可以採取哪些措施來實現這個目標。

Jim, this is Ram. I'll take that. So we've made great progress in keeping our focus on deleveraging. We paid down $400 million in prepayment this year that's following $426 million of prepayment we did last year. And that remains our focus. Our capital allocation strategy has not changed, investing in our business and then paying our debt down. That's been our focus.

吉姆，我是拉姆。我接受。因此，我們在繼續專注於去槓桿化方面取得了巨大進展。今年我們提前償還了 4 億美元，此前一年我們也提前償還了 4.26 億美元。這仍然是我們關注的重點。我們的資本配置策略沒有改變，仍然是投資我們的業務，然後償還債務。這一直是我們的關注重點。

In terms of accelerating that, the best way to do that will be with our current cost structures when we see the top line come back to more normal levels, we will be able to generate more cash and accelerate our debt payment. 2.5, you're right is the net leverage target we want to get to, and that's our goal. I don't want to speculate on a time when we'll get there, but 2.5 is our net leverage target.

就加速這一目標而言，最佳途徑是在當前成本結構下，待營收恢復到正常水平後，我們將能夠產生更多現金流，從而加快償債速度。 2.5，您說得對，這是我們想要達到的淨槓桿目標，也是我們的最終目標。我不想猜測我們何時能達到目標，但 2.5 是我們的淨槓桿目標。

I'm showing no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn it back to Paretosh Misra.

我目前沒有其他問題要問。我現在想把話題轉回給帕雷托什·米斯拉。

Thank you all for joining us today and for your interest in MKS. I guess, you may close the call, please.

感謝各位今天蒞臨指導，也感謝大家對MKS的關注。我想，你可以掛斷電話了。