萬機儀器 (MKSI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by and welcome to the MKS Instruments fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's program is being recorded.

感謝您的支持，歡迎參加 MKS Instruments 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。(操作員指示)提醒一下，今天的節目正在錄製。

And now I'd like to introduce your host for today's program, Paretosh Misra, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想介紹今天節目的主持人、投資者關係副總裁帕雷托什·米斯拉 (Paretosh Misra)。請繼續。

Sir. Good morning, everyone. I'm Paretosh Misra, Vice President of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by John Lee, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Ram Mayampurath, Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer, and Treasurer.

先生。大家早安。我是投資人關係副總裁 Paretosh Misra，今天早上與我一起參加會議的還有總裁兼執行長 John Lee；以及執行副總裁、財務長兼財務主管 Ram Mayampurath。

Yesterday, after market closed, we released our financial results for the fourth quarter and full year 2024, which are posted to our investor website at investor.mks.com. As a reminder, various remarks about future expectations, plans, and prospects for MKS comprise forward-looking statements.

昨天，在市場收盤後，我們發布了 2024 年第四季和全年財務業績，該業績發佈在我們的投資者網站 investor.mks.com 上。提醒一下，關於 MKS 未來期望、計劃和前景的各種評論均包含前瞻性陳述。

Actual results may differ materially as a result of various important factors, including those discussed in yesterday's press release and in our most recent annual report on Form10-K. These statements represent the company's expectations only as of today and should not be relied upon as representing the company's estimates or views as of any dates subsequent to today. And the company disclaims any obligation to update these statements.

由於各種重要因素，包括昨天的新聞稿和我們最近的 Form10-K 年度報告中所討論的因素，實際結果可能存在重大差異。這些聲明僅代表公司截至今天的預期，不應被視為代表公司截至今天之後任何日期的估計或觀點。且本公司不承擔更新這些聲明的任何義務。

During the call, we'll be discussing various non-GAAP financial measures. Unless otherwise noted, all income statement related financial measures will be non-GAAP other than revenue. Please refer to our press release and the presentation materials posted to the investor relations sections of our website for information regarding our non-GAAP financial results and a reconciliation to our GAAP measures. Our investor website also provides a detailed breakout of revenues by end market and division.

在電話會議中，我們將討論各種非公認會計準則財務指標。除非另有說明，除收入外，所有與損益表相關的財務指標均為非 GAAP。有關我們的非 GAAP 財務結果和與 GAAP 指標的對帳訊息，請參閱我們的新聞稿和發佈在我們網站投資者關係部分的簡報資料。我們的投資者網站也提供了按終端市場和部門劃分的詳細收入明細。

Now, I'll turn the call over to John.

現在，我將電話轉給約翰。

Thanks, Paretosh. Good morning, everyone. Before, I discuss our quarterly results, I'd like to take a moment to review 2024, which was a year of impressive execution in a challenging environment. Despite roughly flat year over year revenue of $3.6 billion, we achieved a 190 basis point expansion in gross margin.

謝謝，帕累托什。大家早安。在討論我們的季度業績之前，我想花點時間回顧一下 2024 年，這是在充滿挑戰的環境中表現令人印象深刻的一年。儘管我們的營收與去年同期相比基本持平，為 36 億美元，但我們的毛利率卻成長了 190 個基點。

We managed our operating expenses effectively, increased earnings per share by 49%, and improved free cash flow by $178 million. Additionally, we took several actions to proactively manage our leverage and significantly reduce our interest expense.

我們有效地管理了營運費用，每股收益提高了 49%，自由現金流增加了 1.78 億美元。此外，我們還採取了多項措施，積極管理我們的槓桿率並大幅降低我們的利息支出。

This included an upsized $1.4 billion convertible note offering, voluntary pre-payments of $426 million on our term loan facility, and an opportunistic refinancing and repricing of our term loans.

其中包括發行規模增加到 14 億美元的可轉換票據、自願預付 4.26 億美元的定期貸款，以及對定期貸款進行機會性再融資和重新定價。

We took these steps while also maintaining investments in R&D and strategic initiatives, including delivering technology innovations in areas such as world class optics, lasers and laser systems, and new chemistry solutions for advanced packaging in the AI era.

我們在採取這些措施的同時，也維持對研發和策略計畫的投資，包括在世界一流的光學、雷射和雷射系統等領域實現技術創新，以及人工智慧時代先進封裝的新化學解決方案。

We also upgraded and expanded our operations in Romania, broke ground on our new super center factory in Malaysia, and purchased the site in Thailand for a future chemistry factory and tech center. These investments add capacity and resiliency to our manufacturing footprint.

我們還升級並擴大了在羅馬尼亞的業務，在馬來西亞破土動工建造新的超級中心工廠，並在泰國購買了用於未來化學工廠和技術中心的場地。這些投資增強了我們的製造能力和彈性。

We're proud of our accomplishments in 2024, and I want to acknowledge our teams across MKS who delivered these results despite muted end markets. I also want to thank our customers across our semiconductor, electronics and packaging, and especially to industrial markets for their support and engagement as we work to deliver unique solutions that enable their success.

我們為 2024 年的成就感到自豪，我要感謝 MKS 的團隊，儘管終端市場低迷，他們仍然取得了這些成績。我還要感謝我們半導體、電子和封裝領域，特別是工業市場的客戶，感謝他們的支持和參與，我們致力於提供獨特的解決方案，幫助他們取得成功。

Entering 2025, MKS is in a strong position with one of the broadest and deepest product portfolios that uniquely allow us to solve our customers' most complex challenges. These challenges are placing increasing pressure on traditional Moore's law innovation cycles.

進入 2025 年，MKS 將擁有最廣泛、最深入的產品組合之一，佔據強勢地位，這使我們能夠以獨特的方式解決客戶最複雜的挑戰。這些挑戰給傳統摩爾定律創新週期帶來了越來越大的壓力。

MKS enabling solutions to this more than more environment through design and production wins in areas like optical modules for the lithography, metrology, and inspection market, lasers for next generation backend applications, and chemistry equipment for multi-layer substrates for advanced AI servers.

MKS 透過在光刻、計量和檢測市場的光學模組、下一代後端應用的雷射以及用於先進 AI 伺服器的多層基板的化學設備等領域的設計和生產勝利，為這種更多環境提供解決方案。

These examples demonstrate the impact that technological innovations have on our industry, and we believe our position as a foundational enabler across semiconductors and electronics sets us up well as these trends accelerate.

這些例子證明了技術創新對我們行業的影響，我們相信，隨著這些趨勢的加速，我們作為半導體和電子產品基礎推動者的地位將為我們帶來良好的結果。

Now let's discuss our fourth quarter results in more detail. We ended 2024 on a strong note with revenue, gross margin, and earnings per diluted share above the midpoint of our Q4 guidance ranges. Revenue was up 5% year over year, driven by double digit growth in both our electronics and packaging and semiconductor and markets.

現在讓我們更詳細地討論我們的第四季業績。我們以強勁的業績結束了 2024 年，營收、毛利率和每股攤薄收益均高於我們第四季指引範圍的中點。營收年增 5％，這得益於電子和封裝以及半導體市場均實現兩位數的成長。

We continue to make good progress proactively managing our leverage. Including another successful repricing of our term loans, a $100 million voluntary principal pre-payment in January 2025. Combined with similar actions we took in 2024, and a slight improvement in the interest rate environment, we have reduced our annual interest expense run rate by over $130 million compared to the prior year.

我們在積極管理槓桿方面持續取得良好進展。包括再次成功重新定價我們的定期貸款，即2025年1月自願預付1億美元本金。結合我們在 2024 年採取的類似行動以及利率環境的略微改善，我們將年度利息支出運行率與前一年相比降低了 1.3 億美元以上。

Looking at our performance in our three end markets. Starting with our semiconductor market, revenue increased 6% sequentially above the high end of our guidance range. Similar to the trends seen throughout the year, this higher revenue trend was mainly driven by better than anticipated in quarter demand, primarily related to DRAM and logic foundry applications for our vacuum product offerings.

看看我們在三個終端市場的表現。從我們的半導體市場開始，營收季增 6%，高於我們預期範圍的高點。與全年的趨勢類似，這一更高的收入趨勢主要是由於本季需求優於預期，主要與我們的真空產品的 DRAM 和邏輯代工應用有關。

NAND has picked up from early 2024, remains at historically low levels. We are well positioned for both upgrade activity as customers move to higher layer counts and potential new greenfield investments when that market recovers.

NAND從2024年初開始回升，仍處於歷史低點。當客戶轉向更高層數時，我們已為升級活動做好了準備，而當市場復甦時，我們可能進行新的綠地投資。

We are achieving a healthy pace of design wins that create great opportunities for us when semiconductor investment recovers, including reactive gas solutions for leading edge nodes. Additionally, we continue to advance our positions in lithography, metrology, and inspection with another design win supplying optical assemblies for a leading customer.

我們正在以健康的步伐贏得設計勝利，這為我們在半導體投資復甦時創造了巨大的機會，包括用於前沿節點的反應氣體解決方案。此外，我們繼續提昇在光刻、計量和檢測領域的地位，並再次贏得為領先客戶提供光學組件的設計勝利。

We also maintain our momentum in the back end applications related to high bandwidth memory with more orders for our lasers during the quarter. We have continued to invest in our laser business over the years, and we believe we are well positioned for strong growth.

我們也保持在高頻寬記憶體相關的後端應用領域的發展勢頭，本季我們的雷射訂單有所增加。多年來，我們持續對雷射業務進行投資，我們相信我們已準備好實現強勁成長。

In the first quarter, we expect semiconductor revenue to be flattish on a sequential basis. The guidance demonstrates continued stability in DRAM and foundry logic demand, with NAND remaining at low levels.

我們預計第一季半導體營收將環比持平。此指引顯示 DRAM 和代工邏輯需求持續穩定，而 NAND 仍處於低水準。

Overall, while demand remains low, it is higher than a year ago. The investments we're making, along with our design wins, strengthen our confidence and our ability to outperform as the market recovery gains momentum.

總體而言，雖然需求仍然較低，但比一年前有所上升。我們所做的投資以及我們在設計上的成功增強了我們的信心，也增強了我們在市場復甦勢頭強勁時脫穎而出的能力。

Turning to electronics and packaging, revenue grew 10% sequentially and above the high end of our guidance. The sequential increase was driven by increased equipment sales. We saw continued momentum in orders for our chemistry and equipment solutions for advanced MLB, HDI, and packaged substrates related to AI applications.

談到電子和包裝，收入環比增長 10％，高於我們預期的高位。連續成長主要得益於設備銷售額的成長。我們看到，與 AI 應用相關的先進 MLB、HDI 和封裝基板的化學品和設備解決方案的訂單持續成長。

This shows the key role our products and technologies play as advanced packaging and specifically the interconnect becomes more critical in enabling the manufacturing of increasingly complex electronic devices.

這表明我們的產品和技術在先進封裝和具體互連方面發揮關鍵作用，對於製造日益複雜的電子設備變得更加重要。

Excluding the impact of FX and palladium pass through, sales of chemistry increased 9% in the fourth quarter over the prior year. For the full year, chemistry sales finished up 12% and significantly outperformed the PCB industry in 2024.

除去外匯和鈀轉嫁的影響，第四季化學品銷售額比去年同期成長了 9%。全年化學品銷售額成長 12%，並將在 2024 年大幅超越 PCB 產業。

Looking ahead to Q1, we expect revenue from our electronics and packaging market to be down 4% on a sequential basis, primarily due to seasonality associated with the Lunar New Year.

展望第一季度，我們預計電子和包裝市場的收入將環比下降 4%，這主要歸因於農曆新年相關的季節性影響。

In our specialty industrial market, revenues decreased 2% sequentially and was at the lower end of our guidance range. While the life and health sciences and research and defense end markets were steady, we saw softness across the broader industrial market. As a reminder, our specialty industrial market consists of a variety of applications across multiple end markets.

在我們的特種工業市場，收入環比下降 2%，處於我們指導範圍的低端。雖然生命和健康科學以及研究和國防終端市場保持穩定，但我們看到整個工業市場表現疲軟。提醒一下，我們的專業工業市場由多個終端市場的各種應用組成。

Looking ahead to Q1, we expect revenue in our special industrial market to decline 6% from Q4, mainly due to softness in the industrial market and Lunar New Year impacts, especially related to our general metal finishing business.

展望第一季度，我們預期特殊工業市場的營收將較第四季度下降 6%，主要原因是工業市場疲軟和農曆新年的影響，尤其是與我們的一般金屬加工業務有關。

Overall, we executed well and delivered solid financial performance in the fourth quarter in full year 2024. With green shoots emerging in a few key areas of our business and improving profitability, MKS enters 2025 in a robust financial position. I mentioned the strength of our team earlier.

總體而言，我們表現良好，並在 2024 年全年第四季度取得了穩健的財務業績。隨著業務的幾個關鍵領域出現復甦跡像以及獲利能力不斷提高，MKS 將以強勁的財務狀況邁入 2025 年。我之前提到過我們團隊的實力。

Their efforts coupled with our dynamic culture are reflected in the industry accolades we received during the year. For the second consecutive year, we were named to US news and world report's best companies to work for in our industry. As well as named by Newsweek and Statista as one of America's most responsible companies for 2025.

他們的努力加上我們充滿活力的文化在我們這一年獲得的行業讚譽中得到了充分體現。我們連續第二年被《美國新聞與世界報道》評為本行業最適合工作的公司。並被《新聞周刊》和 Statista 評選為 2025 年美國最具責任感的公司之一。

Now let me turn it over to Ram to run through the financial results and first quarter guidance in more detail. Ram?

現在，讓我將話題交給拉姆，讓他更詳細地介紹一下財務表現和第一季指引。記憶體？

Thank you, John, and good morning everyone. As I've had a few months now to dive deeper into my role, I'm impressed with the level of execution that MKS delivers, especially in light of the industry demand backdrop of the past couple of years.

謝謝你，約翰，大家早安。我現在有幾個月的時間來深入了解我的職責，MKS 的執行水平給我留下了深刻的印象，特別是考慮到過去幾年的行業需求背景。

In the coming quarters, we will maintain our focus and discipline on managing costs while we make the necessary investments for long-term growth and business continuity. I will talk a little more about how we are looking at the coming quarters in a moment, but first, let me review our Q4 and full your performance in detail.

在接下來的幾個季度中，我們將繼續專注於成本管理並嚴格遵守紀律，同時為長期成長和業務連續性進行必要的投資。稍後我將進一步談談我們對未來幾季的展望，但首先，讓我回顧一下我們的第四季並詳細介紹您的表現。

For the fourth quarter, MKS reported revenue of $935 million, up 4% sequentially and 5% year over year. The result was above the midpoint of our guidance range and was driven mainly by a better than expected semiconductor and electronics and packaging revenue.

MKS 報告第四季營收為 9.35 億美元，季增 4%，年增 5%。此結果高於我們預期範圍的中點，主要得益於半導體、電子和封裝收入優於預期。

Fourth quarter semiconductor revenue was $400 million, up 6% sequentially, and 10% year over year. The result was about the high end of our expectation as our team continued to execute on strong in quarter demand, especially as related to DRAM and logic boundary applications where we have seen relative normalization of inventory levels that our customers.

第四季半導體營收為 4 億美元，季增 6%，年增 10%。結果達到了我們預期的高端，因為我們的團隊繼續執行強勁的季度需求，特別是與 DRAM 和邏輯邊界應用相關的需求，我們看到客戶的庫存水準相對正常化。

Man is bouncing off very low base, but we are seeing evidence that we are making good progress in burning through excess inventory at some customers. Fourth quarter, electronics and packaging revenue was $254 million, an increase of 10% quarter over quarter, and also above the high end of our expectations. This result was led by higher flexible PCB drilling and chemistry equipment sales partially offset by normal seasonal declines in chemistry.

雖然我們的業績正在從非常低的基數中反彈，但我們看到證據表明，我們在消化部分客戶的過剩庫存方面取得了良好進展。第四季度，電子和包裝收入為 2.54 億美元，環比成長 10%，也高於我們預期的高點。這項結果主要得益於柔性印刷電路板鑽孔和化學設備銷售額的成長，但被化學產品正常的季節性下滑部分抵銷。

On a year over year basis, sales were up 13%, driven by stronger performance in chemistry, flexible drilling equipment, and chemistry equipment. Chemistry sales were up 9%, excluding the impact of FX and palladium passed through, continuing a gradual recovery trend from the industry-wide softness.

與去年同期相比，銷售額成長了 13%，這得益於化學、靈活鑽井設備和化學設備業績的強勁成長。除去外匯和鈀金的影響，化學品銷售額增長了 9%，延續了全行業從疲軟中逐步復甦的趨勢。

In our specialty industry markets, fourth quarter revenue was $281 million, a decline of 2% sequentially and below our guidance midpoint, largely due to softness across the broader industrial markets. Revenue was down 8% year over year basis, also primarily due to softness in the industrial market. The prior year result benefited from strong chemistry equipment sales within the general metal finishing business.

在我們的專業產業市場，第四季營收為 2.81 億美元，環比下降 2%，低於我們的指導中位數，這主要是由於整個工業市場的疲軟。營收年減 8%，主要原因是工業市場疲軟。上年的業績受惠於一般金屬加工業務中化學設備強勁的銷售。

Turning to gross margin, we reported fourth quarter gross margin of 47.2%, which is about the midpoint of our guidance. Gross margin was down sequentially due to higher equipment mix in the fourth quarter and consistent with our expectations.

談到毛利率，我們報告第四季的毛利率為 47.2%，大約是我們預期的中間值。由於第四季設備組合增加，毛利率環比下降，這符合我們的預期。

We continue to prudently manage our costs, balancing investing in our business with near term profitability and cash generation. Fourth quarter operating expenses were $242 million and within our guidance range. Fourth quarter operating income was nearly $200 million yielding an operating margin of 21.3% and above our guidance driven mostly by higher gross profit.

我們持續審慎管理成本，在業務投資與短期獲利能力和現金創造之間取得平衡。第四季營運費用為 2.42 億美元，在我們的指導範圍內。第四季營業收入接近 2 億美元，營業利潤率為 21.3%，高於我們的預期，主要得益於毛利的提高。

Adjusted EBITDA was $237 million and also about the midpoint of our expectations yielding a 25.3% margin. Net interest expenses was $45 million lower than our guidance of $48 million as a result of a year-to-date reclassification of approximately $3 million of pension plan interest costs to other non-operating expenses. Net interest expenses was otherwise in line with our guidance.

調整後的 EBITDA 為 2.37 億美元，也約為我們預期的中間值，利潤率為 25.3%。淨利息支出比我們預期的 4,800 萬美元低 4,500 萬美元，原因是年初至今將約 300 萬美元的退休金計畫利息成本重新歸類為其他非營業支出。除此之外，淨利息支出與我們的預期一致。

The fourth quarter effective tax rate was 4%, which is lower than our guidance due to certain favorable discrete items in the quarter. Fourth quarter net earnings were $146 million or $2.15 per share, above the midpoint of our guidance, reflecting strong operating performance and lower income taxes I just detailed.

第四季有效稅率為 4%，由於本季某些有利的單項項目，該稅率低於我們的預期。第四季淨利潤為 1.46 億美元，即每股 2.15 美元，高於我們預期的中位數，這反映了強勁的經營業績和我剛才詳述的較低的所得稅。

For the fourth quarter, free cash flow was $125 million or 13% of revenue. We recorded capital expenditures of $51 million in the quarter, slightly above 5% of revenues. We expect CapEx to average 4% to 5% of revenues for the foreseeable future.

第四季度，自由現金流為 1.25 億美元，佔營收的 13%。本季我們的資本支出為 5,100 萬美元，略高於收入的 5%。我們預計，在可預見的未來，資本支出平均將佔收入的 4% 至 5%。

We closed the quarter with approximately $1.4 billion of liquidity comprised of cash and cash equivalent of $714 million and our underdrawn revolving credit facility of $675 million. We exceeded the quarter with gross debt of $4.6 billion and net leverage ratio of 4.3 times based on our trailing 12 month adjusted EBITDA of $914 million.

截至本季末，我們的流動資金約為 14 億美元，包括 7.14 億美元的現金和現金等價物以及 6.75 億美元的未提取循環信貸額度。根據我們過去 12 個月調整後的 EBITDA 9.14 億美元計算，本季我們的總債務超過 46 億美元，淨槓桿率為 4.3 倍。

We continue to prioritize deleveraging our balance sheet, which remains our top priority after investing in our business. As John mentioned, in 2024, we made a total of $426 million of voluntary pre-payments on our term loan.

我們繼續優先考慮降低資產負債表中的槓桿率，這仍然是我們在投資業務之後的首要任務。正如約翰所提到的，2024 年，我們對定期貸款進行了總計 4.26 億美元的自願預付款。

In January 2025, we repriced our term loan, reducing credit spreads by an additional 25 basis points, and made another $100 million of voluntary principal pre-payment. Based on the current interest rates, the combined effect of these recent actions will reduce our annual interest expense run rate by approximately $15 million.

2025 年 1 月，我們重新定價了定期貸款，將信用利差進一步降低了 25 個基點，並另外自願提前償還了 1 億美元的本金。根據當前利率，這些近期措施的綜合效應將使我們的年度利息支出運行率降低約 1500 萬美元。

As the demand environment improves alongside our continued focus on prudently managing working capital and gross margins, we expect to see stronger flow through to the bottom line and higher cash flows, allowing us to continue to make good progress on deleveraging. Finally, during the fourth quarter, we paid a dividend of $0.22 per share or $15 million.

隨著需求環境的改善，以及我們繼續注重審慎管理營運資本和毛利率，我們預計將看到更強勁的獲利流動和更高的現金流，使我們能夠繼續在去槓桿方面取得良好進展。最後，在第四季度，我們支付了每股 0.22 美元或 1500 萬美元的股息。

Moving to full year 2024 results, revenue was $3.6 billion, down 1% year over year. Semiconductor revenue totaled $1.5 billion, up 1% year over year and up 2%, excluding the impact of foreign exchange. We experienced growth in world class optics and continued stability in DRAM and logic boundary applications, while NAND remained at low levels.

展望 2024 年全年業績，營收為 36 億美元，年減 1%。半導體收入總計15億美元，較去年成長1%，剔除外匯影響則成長2%。我們經歷了世界級光學技術的成長以及 DRAM 和邏輯邊界應用的持續穩定，而 NAND 仍處於較低水平。

Electronics and packaging revenue was $922 million in 2024, up 1% year over year, excluding the impact of FX and palladium. Sales were up 7%, driven by strength in chemistry. Total chemistry sales increased 12% year over year, excluding the impact of foreign exchange and palladium passed through.

2024 年電子和包裝收入為 9.22 億美元，不包括外匯和鈀的影響，較去年同期成長 1%。受化學產業強勁成長的推動，銷售額成長了 7%。除去外匯和鈀金轉嫁的影響，化學品總銷售額年增 12%。

Specialty industrial revenue was $1.2 billion, down 5% year over year, primarily driven by softness in the industrial market. Excluding the impact of foreign exchange and palladium passed through, sales declined 3% year over year.

特種工業收入為 12 億美元，年減 5%，主要原因是工業市場疲軟。除去外匯和鈀金轉嫁的影響，銷售額較去年同期下降 3%。

Full year gross margin was 47.6%, up 190 basis points year over year, driven by product mix as well as operating efficiencies. In addition to successfully capturing value through our truly differentiated product portfolio, we have also taken measures to manage our material and labor cost efficiently.

全年毛利率為47.6%，較上年同期上升190個基點，這得益於產品結構和營運效率的提升。除了透過真正差異化的產品組合成功獲取價值之外，我們還採取措施有效管理材料和勞動成本。

The full year operating margin of 21.3% was up 180 basis points year over year, primarily as a result of higher gross margin coupled with disciplined operating expense management.

全年營業利潤率為 21.3%，比去年同期上升了 180 個基點，主要得益於毛利率的提高和嚴格的營業費用管理。

Turning to cash flow, we generated operating cash flow of $528 million, an improvement of $209 million year over year. Full year pre-cash flow was $410 million an increase of $178 million year over year. Pre-cash flow conversion of 11.4% improved 500 basis points over the prior year.

談到現金流，我們產生了 5.28 億美元的營運現金流，比去年同期增加了 2.09 億美元。全年預現金流為 4.1 億美元，較前一年增加 1.78 億美元。現金流轉換前位數為 11.4%，較前一年提高 500 個基點。

We are pleased with our execution on the margins and the strength in the underlying cash generation in our business despite a challenging demand environment in our end markets.

儘管我們的終端市場需求環境充滿挑戰，但我們對利潤率的執行情況和業務基礎現金創造能力感到滿意。

Let me now turn to first quarter outlook. We expect revenue of $910 million plus or minus $40 million consistent with the guidance we provided last quarter and consistent with our view that the market is relatively stable, albeit at a slightly higher run rate than what we saw a year ago.

現在我來談談第一季的展望。我們預計收入為 9.1 億美元，上下浮動 4,000 萬美元，與我們上個季度提供的指引一致，也符合我們對市場相對穩定的看法，儘管運行率比一年前略高。

Buy end market, our first quarter outlook is as follows. Revenue from our semiconductor market is expected to be $400 million plus or minus $15 million. Revenue from our electronics and packaging market is expected to be $245 million plus or minus $10 million. And revenue from our specialty industrial market is expected to be $265 million plus or minus $15 million.

買入端市場，我們對第一季的展望如下。我們半導體市場的收入預計為 4 億美元，上下浮動 1500 萬美元。我們的電子和包裝市場收入預計為 2.45 億美元，上下浮動 1000 萬美元。我們專業工業市場的收入預計為 2.65 億美元，上下浮動 1500 萬美元。

Based on anticipated revenue levels and product mix, including lower chemistry sales in the light of the Lunar New Year, we estimate first quarter gross margins of 46.5% plus or minus 100 basis points.

根據預期的收入水準和產品組合，包括農曆新年導致的化學品銷售額下降，我們預期第一季的毛利率為 46.5% 上下浮動 100 個基點。

We expect first quarter operating expenses of $255 million plus or minus $5 million. We expect our OpEx spending to remain at this range of $250 million to $260 million a quarter as we continue to invest in people and infrastructure.

我們預計第一季的營運費用為 2.55 億美元，上下浮動 500 萬美元。由於我們將繼續對人才和基礎設施進行投資，我們預計營運支出將保持在每季 2.5 億至 2.6 億美元的範圍內。

We estimate adjusted EBITDA of $217 million plus or minus $23 million. We expect tax rate of approximately 22% in the first quarter. For the year, we expect our tax rate to be in the range of 19% to 21%.

我們預計調整後的 EBITDA 為 2.17 億美元，上下浮動 2,300 萬美元。我們預計第一季的稅率約為22%。我們預計今年的稅率將在 19% 至 21% 之間。

Based on these assumptions, we expect first quarter net earnings per diluted share of dollar $1.40 plus or minus $0.27. Our execution has remained strong despite the cyclical challenges in our end markets. We are confident that we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on the opportunities that lie ahead.

基於這些假設，我們預計第一季每股攤薄淨收益為 1.40 美元，上下浮動 0.27 美元。儘管我們的終端市場面臨週期性挑戰，但我們的執行力依然強勁。我們堅信，我們擁有獨特的優勢，能夠抓住未來的機會。

With that, I will turn the call back over to John for concluding remarks.

說完這些，我會把電話轉回給約翰，請他做最後發言。

Thank you, Ram. I'll wrap up by saying I'm very pleased with the performance we delivered in 2024. We've leveraged our broad and deep product portfolio to capture opportunities across our businesses in a tough demand environment, and that's thanks to the deep engagement we enjoy with our customers. We've managed our costs well, maintained strong margins, and made progress on our deleveraging agenda.

謝謝你，拉姆。最後，我想說，我對我們在 2024 年的表現非常滿意。我們利用廣泛而深入的產品組合，在嚴峻的需求環境中抓住業務機遇，這要歸功於我們與客戶的深度合作。我們很好地管理了成本，保持了強勁的利潤率，並在去槓桿方面取得了進展。

Going forward, we're well positioned on multiple fronts. Improvement in NAND when it comes, continued order and design wind traction in our world-class optics portfolio. And incremental design win and order activity in both chemistry and chemistry equipment, which are benefiting from increasing complexity for advanced packaging in the AI era.

展望未來，我們在多個方面都處於有利地位。當 NAND 得到改進時，我們世界一流的光學產品組合將繼續保持秩序和設計風向。化學和化學設備領域的設計中標和訂單活動不斷增加，受益於人工智慧時代先進封裝的複雜性不斷增加。

You also heard from Ram that we will invest incrementally both in growth and business continuity to ensure we're ready to capture exciting opportunities when markets return to growth. Of course, we'll do that while maintaining the product, the prudent focus on profit and cash generation that investors know us for. We're looking forward to an eventful year ahead.

您也從拉姆那裡聽說，我們將在成長和業務連續性方面逐步投資，以確保我們已準備好在市場恢復成長時抓住令人興奮的機會。當然，我們會在保持產品的同時做到這一點，並謹慎地關注投資者所熟知的利潤和現金創造。我們期待未來的一年充滿豐收。

With that operator, please open the call for Q&A.

請與接線生一起開啟問答通話。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

克里什·桑卡爾（Krish Sankar），TD Cowen。

Yeah, hi, thanks for taking my question. I had a couple of them. First one, Johnny mentioned how, some of your NAND component inventory at your semi cap customers is being burned. I'm kind of curious, where do you think those levels are today versus before and how much ahead would they start purchasing your components again, when they anticipate a land upturn.

是的，你好，感謝您回答我的問題。我有幾個。首先，Johnny 提到了你們半導體客戶的部分 NAND 元件庫存正在被燒毀。我有點好奇，您認為現在的水平與以前相比如何，當他們預期土地價格上漲時，他們會提前多久開始再次購買您的零件。

Yeah, good morning, Krish. Yeah, it's a great question. So we have seen green shoots there. We've talked in the past about a lot of inventory being burned off. We're starting to see some of that happen, and we're starting to see some new orders for that. So it's already happening.

是的，早上好，克里什。是的，這是一個很好的問題。所以我們在那裡看到了復甦的曙光。我們過去曾討論過大量庫存被燒毀的問題。我們開始看到一些這樣的情況發生，我們也開始看到一些新的訂單。所以它已經發生了。

So we're happy with that progress. It's just that it's still off of a low level. So good progress, green shoots, but certainly not at the level where it used to be.

我們對這項進展感到非常高興。只是現在還處於較低水準。進展不錯，有復甦的跡象，但肯定還沒有達到以前的水平。

So is it fair to assume just given what your customers are seeing what you're seeing, sending revenue should remain around these levels into even the June quarter.

因此，是否可以公平地假設，僅根據您的客戶所看到的情況，即使在 6 月季度，發送收入也應該保持在這些水平上。

Well, we're not guiding out beyond that, as but I would say this because we're starting to see these orders coming in for NAND. It will depend on how much upgrade business occurs or whether there's a new green field. So if those happen, they would drive that part of our revenue up. And so we're in a good position if and when that happens.

好吧，我們不會給出超出這個範圍的指導，但我會這麼說，因為我們開始看到這些針對 NAND 的訂單。這將取決於有多少升級業務發生或是否有新的綠地。如果這些情況發生，我們這部分的收入就會增加。所以，如果這種情況發生，我們將處於有利地位。

And then just a quick follow up for Ram, you kind of mentioned $250 million to $260 million in OpEx is that the run rate to use for the rest of the year? What I mean, -- and should it normalize because it seems like it's stepping up quite a bit from last year.

然後快速跟進 Ram 的問題，您提到 2.5 億到 2.6 億美元的營運支出，這是今年剩餘時間的運行率嗎？我的意思是——它是否應該正常化，因為它似乎比去年有了很大的進步。

Yeah, hi, good morning, Krish. So first of all, let me just say that we are very disciplined and focused on our OpEx spending. Our OpEx in 2024 was flat, slightly less compared to the previous year. In 2025, we see some opportunities to invest.

是的，嗨，早上好，克里什。首先，我要說的是，我們非常自律，並且專注於我們的營運支出。我們 2024 年的營運支出持平，與前一年相比略有下降。2025年，我們看到一些投資機會。

In long term growth and to build some efficiencies within our business. And that's why we are having the additional step up investment. Over the long term, we remain committed to a 40% incremental operating margins, which we'll see as the top line picks up.

為了長期成長並提高我們業務的效率。這就是我們加大額外投資的原因。從長遠來看，我們仍致力於將營業利潤率提高 40%，這將推動營收的回升。

Got it. Thanks, John. Thanks, Ram.

知道了。謝謝，約翰。謝謝，拉姆。

Thanks, Krish.

謝謝，克里什。

Peter Peng, JP Morgan.

摩根大通 (JP Morgan) 的 Peter Peng。

Hey guys, thanks for taking my question. Just on your semiconductor segment, some of your customers and peers are talking about a mid-single digit growth for WFE. So I guess that back up just given some of the end market dynamics and some of your design wins. How are you thinking about your relative performance versus that level for the year?

嘿夥計們，謝謝你們回答我的問題。僅在您的半導體領域，您的一些客戶和同行正在談論 WFE 的中等個位數成長。因此，我猜這只是考慮到了一些終端市場動態和一些設計勝利。您認為自己今年的表現相對於該水準如何？

Yeah, good morning, Peter. Well, we've been able to outperform WFE over the long term by 200 basis points through cycles. So we're really well positioned the design wins activities that we've seen are really helpful. Our focus on world class optics is another lever for us to gain share relatively.

是的，早上好，彼得。嗯，透過週期的推移，我們的長期表現已經能夠比 WFE 高出 200 個基點。因此，我們的定位非常正確，我們所看到的設計勝利活動確實很有幫助。我們對世界一流光學產品的關注是我們相對獲得份額的另一個槓桿。

You're right, most of our peers and customers have said kind of mid-single digit growth in WFE. And if that happens, we certainly will be enjoying that level of growth as well. As during a strong upturn, we outperform because, our customers are pulling a lot more, and then downturn, we underperform and overall, we look through the cycle. And that's where we are still at that 200 basis points above the long term CAGR.

您說得對，我們的大多數同行和客戶都表示 WFE 實現了中等個位數的成長。如果發生這種情況，我們肯定也會享受這種成長水平。在經濟強勁成長期間，我們的表現會優於其他公司，因為我們的客戶拉動較多；而在經濟低迷時期，我們的表現會低於預期，總的來說，我們會回顧整個週期。這就是我們仍然高於長期複合年增長率 200 個基點的地方。

Got it. Okay. And then on your specialty industrial, that business looks like it's kind of been steady declining over the last few quarters. Any idea of when you think that business would kind of bottom and start to recover?

知道了。好的。然後就您的專業工業而言，該業務在過去幾個季度似乎一直在穩步下滑。您認為什麼時候業務會觸底並開始復甦？

Yeah, and as we said on the call, Peter, it's made up of several different kinds of markets. And so we called out that general industrial is the area that is seeing weakness, which is not a surprise. I think if you read all the PMI data, that wouldn't be a surprise.

是的，正如我們在電話中所說的那樣，彼得，它由幾種不同類型的市場組成。因此我們指出，一般工業是表現疲軟的領域，這並不奇怪。我想，如果你讀完所有的PMI數據，你就不會對此感到驚訝。

And even organically, though, it's only down 3% year over year for the entire that segment of our market. So it's bouncing along the bottom, and I think our best visibility is the guides we gave. And it is -- it can be lumpy because it's made up of several different markets. So I think steady and slightly down is how we see it right now.

但即使是有機成長，我們整個市場的這一部分比去年同期也僅下降了 3%。所以它沿著底部彈跳，我認為我們最好的可視性就是我們提供的指南。事實上，它可能是不穩定的，因為它是由幾個不同的市場組成的。因此我認為目前我們看到的是穩定且略有下降的情況。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, Peter.

謝謝你，彼得。

Melissa Weathers, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的梅莉莎‧韋瑟斯。

Hi there, thank you for letting me ask a question. I wanted to go back to the NAND side. Can you talk about when we're seeing the spending happen in upgrades versus greenfield capacity, where does MKS fit in that narrative? Do you have higher content in Greenfield versus upgrades, or how do we think about the upgrade dynamics this year?

您好，感謝您讓我提問。我想回到 NAND 方面。您能否談談，當我們看到升級與新建產能的支出時，MKS 在該敘述中處於什麼位置？與升級相比，Greenfield 中的內容是否更高，或者我們如何看待今年的升級動態？

Yeah, good morning, Melissa. Yes, so certainly a greenfield requires brand new tools and as you know MKS has a broad portfolio around those tools. With upgrades, most of the benefits for us is in the power, the RF power.

是的，早上好，梅麗莎。是的，所以綠地肯定需要全新的工具，而且如您所知，MKS 擁有圍繞這些工具的廣泛產品組合。透過升級，我們獲得的大部分好處在於功率，即射頻功率。

And as I've said before, it depends on what the upgrade is, and if it's going from 100 layers to 200 layers, there's certainly a lot of RF power that is needed. And so that's where we're starting to see some of the inventory burn off as we talked about and some of that polls on certain particular product lines there.

正如我之前所說，這取決於升級的內容，如果從 100 層升級到 200 層，肯定需要大量的射頻功率。正如我們所討論的，我們開始看到一些庫存被消耗，並且對某些特定的產品線進行了一些調查。

Got it. Thank you. And then still on the semi side, but on the logic piece this year we're expecting some pretty healthy spending on the leading edge nodes, gate all around volumes are going to ramp throughout the year.

知道了。謝謝。然後仍然在半導體方面，但在邏輯部分，今年我們預計在前沿節點上會有相當健康的支出，門控的總體產量將在全年增加。

So can you talk about what the impact of that trend is on MKS's business? Is there, do you have any kind of content story with gate all around nodes or how should we think about that logic piece continuing to ramp through this year?

那麼您能談談這種趨勢對 MKS 業務有何影響嗎？您是否有任何關於節點周圍門的內容故事，或者我們應該如何看待該邏輯部分在今年繼續發展？

Yeah, there are lots of things that we play in and contribute to enabling this advanced logic capability. One thing we call out in the earnings call is advanced ozone applications for gate all around. And so, we have a broad portfolio. So we are playing in that advanced node growth, but we have particular areas of product lines that enable that particular growth as well.

是的，我們參與了很多事情，為實現這種先進的邏輯能力做出了貢獻。我們在收益電話會議上提到的一件事是用於門禁的先進臭氧應用。因此，我們擁有廣泛的產品組合。因此，我們正在參與先進節點的成長，但我們的特定產品線領域也能實現這種特定的成長。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jim Ricchiuti, Needham and Company.

吉姆‧里奇烏蒂 (Jim Ricchiuti)，尼德漢姆公司。

Hi, good morning. Hey, John, besides that, which other areas, markets or subsectors are you seeing some signs of recovery green shoots as you pointed out?

嗨，早安。嘿，約翰，除此之外，正如您所指出的，您在哪些其他領域、市場或子行業看到了復甦的跡象？

Yeah, good morning, Jim. Well, we are starting to see some of that chemistry recover in advanced packaging, even though quarter on quarter can be lumpy, we did see year over year an increase in the PCB chemistry world, and we grew 12% organically.

是的，早上好，吉姆。嗯，我們開始看到先進封裝領域的一些化學品開始復蘇，儘管季度環比增長可能不穩定，但我們確實看到 PCB 化學品領域的同比增長，我們的有機增長率為 12％。

We believe that is far outpaces the industry, by the way. And the other green shoots that I would call out besides NAND, as you say, is the equipment -- chemistry equipment for advanced packaging. We saw these orders pick up a couple quarters ago. They continue to pick up, and this is for MLB and HDI applications for AI.

順便說一句，我們相信這遠遠超過了行業水平。正如您所說，除了 NAND 之外，我要指出的另一個綠芽是設備——用於先進封裝的化學設備。我們看到這些訂單在幾個季度前有所回升。它們繼續增長，這是針對 AI 的 MLB 和 HDI 應用。

Got it. Hey, John, looking at that that EMP business. Can you help us, maybe remind us again how much of that you would characterize as advanced packaging and whether you want to give it to us for the quarter and just some sense as to how that might have grown and or the year.

知道了。嘿，約翰，看看那個 EMP 業務。您能否幫助我們，也許再次提醒我們，您將其中多少部分描述為先進封裝，以及您是否願意將其提供給我們本季度的數據，以及您對其在本年度可能如何增長的一些看法。

Yeah, I think, what we used to talk about for advanced packaging was really the IC substrate part, the one that, is really enabling for things like AI servers and non-AI servers and PCs. That's about a third of the PCB market.

是的，我認為，我們過去談論的先進封裝實際上是 IC 基板部分，它真正支援 AI 伺服器、非 AI 伺服器和 PC 等。這約佔 PCB 市場的三分之一。

What's surprising and good for us is that because of the number of layers in the complexity of the number of chips being packaged, we're starting to see AI drive growth in MLB and HDI. And so MLB is a third of the market, HDI is a third of the market, and IC substrates are third of the market. And the equipment that we talked about is driven, the equipment orders it's driven mostly by HDI and MLB.

令我們感到驚訝和高興的是，由於封裝晶片數量的複雜度和層數，我們開始看到人工智慧推動 MLB 和 HDI 的成長。因此，MLB 佔據市場的三分之一，HDI 佔市場的三分之一，IC 載板佔據市場的三分之一。我們談到的設備是由 HDI 和 MLB 驅動的。

Packet substrates remains the part for the AI servers is great. Those customers are really ramping. But as we've talked about, that's still 10%, 15% of the entire IC substrate market. And so the other 85% of the market is still relatively muted because that's driven by PCs and non-AI servers.

資料包基板仍然是 AI 伺服器的重要組成部分。那些顧客確實在增加。但正如我們所討論的，這仍然佔整個IC載板市場的10％到15％。因此，其餘 85% 的市場仍然相對低迷，因為它們是由個人電腦和非人工智慧伺服器驅動的。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Thanks, Jim.

謝謝，吉姆。

Vivek Arya, Bank of America Securities.

Vivek Arya 的美國銀行證券。

Hi, this is Michael Mani on for Vivek Arya. Thanks so much for taking our questions. To start maybe on gross margins, it seems like they're dipping into this quarter, but that's related to higher equipment mix, but what are the puts and takes for gross margins as we go through the year? Should we expect the greater contribution from chemistry to help any other segment dynamics there? Appreciate any color. Thank you.

大家好，我是 Michael Mani，為 Vivek Arya 主持節目。非常感謝您回答我們的問題。首先從毛利率來看，似乎本季有所下降，但這與設備組合增加有關，但全年來看，毛利率的利弊如何？我們是否應該期待化學能做出更大貢獻以幫助其他領域的發展？欣賞任何顏色。謝謝。

Yeah, hi, Michael. I'll take that. First of all, we're very happy with the improvements we have seen in gross margin year over year. We improved our gross margins by 190 basis points '23 to '24. And a lot of that was due to the commercial actions and operational excellence programs in place.

是的，嗨，麥可。我接受。首先，我們對毛利率逐年提高感到非常高興。23 年至 24 年間，我們的毛利率提高了 190 個基點。這在很大程度上歸功於現有的商業行動和卓越營運計劃。

Most of those operational excellence programs will continue, which includes manufacturing excellence and procurement savings. And we'll continue to help our gross margin in the coming quarters. What we're seeing in Q1 is higher concentration of equipment that we saw in Q4, that is going to continue, and that will impact our mix that combined with the impact of the Lunar New Year.

大多數卓越營運計劃將繼續進行，其中包括卓越製造和採購節約。我們將在未來幾季繼續提高我們的毛利率。我們在第一季看到的設備集中度比第四季更高，這種趨勢將會持續下去，再加上農曆新年的影響，將對我們的產品組合產生影響。

Reducing our chemistry mix is the reason why we are guiding our gross margins slightly lower in Q1. So to your question, the actions that we control to influence the gross margin will continue and the mix is seasonal.

減少化學成分是我們預期第一季毛利率略低的原因。所以對於您的問題，我們控制的影響毛利率的行動將會持續下去，而且組合是季節性的。

Yeah, now that too, Michael, that it is seasonal, the chemistry revenue for packaging because we do have a consumer products component to our business. And Lunar New Year, where many of our customers are shut down for a week or so, doesn't occur going forward. And so we kind of expect if normally happens that the proportion of our revenue that chemistry returns. And so that's a tailwind for gross margin.

是的，邁克爾，包裝的化學收入也是季節性的，因為我們的業務確實有一個消費品組成部分。在農曆新年期間，我們的許多客戶都會停工一週左右，但從現在起，這一天不會再來了。因此，我們預計，如果正常發生這種情況，我們的收入中化學回報的比例就會增加。這對於毛利率來說是一個順風。

Great. Thank you. And then for my follow-up I just wanted to ask about the your design when pipeline. So with out of tech electro scientific and all. How does your design when pipeline look based off the synergies you were able to generate from a customer revenue basis from these acquisitions?

偉大的。謝謝。然後，對於我的後續問題，我只想詢問有關您的管道設計。因此，沒有技術、電子科學等等。基於您透過這些收購從客戶收入基礎中產生的協同效應，您的管道設計是怎樣的？

Has it grown, and when do you expect most of these revenues to kind of convert is that. Something we could see later this year is that more further out in 2026, '27.

它是否已經成長？我們今年稍後可能會看到，2026 年、2027 年會有更多結果。

And then finally on that, were there any other, were there any areas within that pipeline where maybe the company was surprised at how competitive it was like areas that maybe it didn't expect to land the win but it was more competitive than they initially anticipated. Thank you.

最後，關於這一點，還有其他什麼嗎？謝謝。

Yeah. No, we still have great engagement with many customers on this portfolio that we are able to provide, meaning laser systems, as well as the chemistry and chemistry systems. So that engagement and the design ones that come from that remain strong. We have multiple design ones that we've talked about in the past.

是的。不，我們仍然與許多客戶就我們能夠提供的產品組合保持良好的合作，這些產品包括雷射系統以及化學和化學系統。因此，這種參與度以及由此產生的設計仍然保持強勁。我們過去曾討論過多個設計。

To your point, it does take one or two or three years depending on the customer for that revenue to show up. You have a question about, were there any headwinds and whatnot. I think most of the headwinds would be you win a design and then maybe that customer is not levered to AI and they may not grow as much. Maybe they're levered to PCs and so they would certainly not be adding volume. But once you win that design win and once that market returns, we expect them to be successful as well.

正如您所說，根據客戶的不同，收入的顯現確實需要一到兩年或三年的時間。您有一個問題，是否有任何阻力等等。我認為最大的阻力是你贏得了一個設計，但也許那個客戶不會利用人工智慧，他們可能不會成長那麼多。他們或許利用了個人電腦，因此肯定不會增加銷售量。但一旦你贏得了設計勝利並且市場回歸，我們預計他們也會成功。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Steve Barger, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

KeyBanc 資本市場公司的 Steve Barger。

Thanks. John, for your comment about a healthy pace of design wins for optical assemblies, are those coming from a product refresh or are those new programs that you haven't been on before?

謝謝。約翰，你對光學組件設計勝利的健康步伐有何評論，這些是來自產品更新還是來自你以前沒有參與過的新項目？

Yeah. Both Steve, some are a program we're already on, but it's an upgrade, the next generation of it. And some are literally new things that no one's ever done, including our customers. So it's exciting to do both. Number one, you're not losing share, you're actually being asked to upgrade what you already delivered.

是的。史蒂夫，有些是我們已經在使用的程序，但這是一個升級版，是下一代的。有些確實是新事物，包括我們的客戶在內，沒有人做過。因此，同時做這兩件事是很令人興奮的。首先，你並沒有失去份額，實際上你被要求升級你已經交付的產品。

Number two, we're being asked to do things that are more and more complex, require more and more of our portfolio, and therefore much stickier and fewer and fewer our competitors can actually do that. So it's a combination of both, Steve.

第二，我們被要求做的事情越來越複雜，需要我們投入越來越多的投資組合，因此難度越來越大，而我們的競爭對手能真正做到這一點的卻越來越少。所以這是兩者的結合，史蒂夫。

Are you seeing the pace of RFQs or the conversion rate from, that initial process to wins, changes the cycle starts to move forward or how would you characterize that process?

您是否看到了 RFQ 的速度或從初始流程到成功的轉換率，改變了週期並開始向前推進，或者您如何描述該流程？

Well, I think for world class optics, those design -- the timing for designs is multiple years before they go into the market. So really no change because that pace has to continue, no matter where you are in the cycle. I would say we are seeing more of it on average over time because of the investments we made in capability in world class optics. So it's really long design cycles, difficult things to do and they continue through cycle.

嗯，我認為對於世界一流的光學器件來說，這些設計——設計的時間是在它們進入市場之前的幾年。因此實際上沒有變化，因為無論你處於週期的哪個階段，這種步伐都必須繼續。我想說，由於我們在世界一流光學能力方面的投資，我們隨著時間的推移平均會看到更多這樣的情況。所以設計週期真的很長，做起來很困難，還要持續整個週期。

Got it. And then as you look at the progression of advanced packaging demand, is there a meaningful difference across different variations like [co-ops S versus co-ops cell]? I guess is there an optical demand trend beyond just broader packaging proliferation?

知道了。然後，當你觀察先進封裝需求的進展時，不同版本之間是否有有意義的差異，例如[合作社 S 與合作社細胞]？我想，除了更廣泛的包裝普及之外，是否還存在著光學需求趨勢？

Well, packaging to your point is evolving quickly, and it's a very dynamic area, which we love, right, because that means new technology, new opportunities. I think to your point, co-ops S is moving to L to R and all that. And that's important, but really what we're talking about MKS are the 50 layers below that, and the chemistry and the drilling and the equipment below that.

嗯，正如您所說，包裝正在快速發展，這是一個非常有活力的領域，我們非常喜歡，因為這意味著新技術、新機會。我認為，正如你所說，合作社 S 正在從 L 轉向 R 等等。這很重要，但實際上我們談論的 MKS 是指其下面的 50 層，以及其下面的化學物質、鑽探和設備。

And so that 50 layers used to be 40, and before that was 30. So that's an exciting area for us. And that's really why we thought, putting out a tech together with MKS makes a lot of sense, enabling that roadmap to go faster.

因此，50 層以前是 40 層，之前是 30 層。所以這對我們來說是一個令人興奮的領域。這就是我們認為與 MKS 一起推出一項技術非常有意義的原因，可以讓這條路線圖更快地推進。

Understood, thanks.

明白了，謝謝。

Thanks, Steve.

謝謝，史蒂夫。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Toshiya Hari, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Toshiya Hari。

Hi, good morning. Thank you so much for taking the question. John, a couple of your customers have spoken to the recent export restrictions and how that's having an impact on revenue and calendar '25. I know most of this should be indirect for you guys, but I'm curious if there's a way to quantify any negative hit from the recent restrictions in some --

嗨，早安。非常感謝您回答這個問題。約翰，你的一些客戶談到了最近的出口限制以及這對收入和 25 年曆的影響。我知道這對你們來說應該是間接的，但我很好奇是否有辦法量化最近的限制對某些國家造成的負面影響。--

Anyhow Ram take that.

無論如何，Ram 都會接受。

Yeah, I can start. So our guidance reflects our best view at this point. We don't see any material impact based on what's in place today. Now, as the situation is quite fluid and we are evaluating it closely.

是的，我可以開始了。因此，我們的指導反映了我們目前的最佳觀點。根據目前的狀況，我們沒有看到任何實質的影響。現在，情況相當不穩定，我們正在密切評估。

To share, I think you're asking about the best restrictions that came out in the end of the year, or you're asking about tariffs?

分享一下，我認為您問的是年底推出的最佳限制措施，還是關稅？

At the end of the year, the BIS restrictions.

年底，BIS 限制措施。

Yeah. Well, yeah, as you read KLA RAM, everybody's come up with some new numbers and we are as Ram said, this is our best view because of what we see from our customers. Obviously, if their revenue goes down, we will see that.

是的。嗯，是的，正如你讀到的 KLA RAM 那樣，每個人都得出了一些新的數字，正如 Ram 所說，這是我們從客戶那裡看到的最佳觀點。顯然，如果他們的收入下降，我們就會看到這一點。

But I would say our direct sales to China for the semiconductor market is very, very low. The numbers that impacted us were occurred in October 2022, and those numbers are out of our revenue -- out of our numbers right now. So it's still in direct impact on the same order as what it impacts our customers.

但我想說，我們對中國半導體市場的直接銷售額非常非常低。對我們影響很大的數字發生在 2022 年 10 月，這些數字不在我們的收入範圍內——不在我們目前的數字範圍內。因此，它對同一訂單的影響仍然與對我們的客戶的影響產生直接影響。

Got it. That that's helpful. And then as my follow-up maybe one for Ram, so you've been with the company for, a couple of months now. I'm curious, I know you guys are very focused on, paying down debt on the balance sheet.

知道了。這很有幫助。然後我要跟進一下關於 Ram 的問題，您在公司工作已經有幾個月了。我很好奇，我知道你們非常注重償還資產負債表上的債務。

But curious if you've been able to identify any opportunities to sort of improve, the operations of the company, how you guys think about working capital, tax strategy, anything that you've been able to kind of, identify and potentially improve going forward if you can share that with us, that would be really helpful. Thank you.

但我很好奇，您是否能夠發現任何可以改進的機會，公司的運營，您如何看待營運資金、稅收策略，以及任何您能夠發現並可能在未來改進的地方，如果您可以與我們分享，那將非常有幫助。謝謝。

Yeah, certainly. On cash flow itself, where you are going, as John mentioned in his script, $410 million increase from $178 million a year over year. Strong free cash flow generation and a good link to the P&L, 11.4% of revenue was 500 basis points improvement year over year.

是的，當然。關於現金流本身，正如約翰在他的劇本中提到的那樣，與去年同期的 1.78 億美元相比，增加了 4.1 億美元。強勁的自由現金流產生和與損益表的良好聯繫，11.4% 的收入較上年同期提高了 500 個基點。

So to on debt repayment, our continued focus will be start from the P&L, maintain and continue the actions we are working on now to keep the margin growth and profitability going. Free cash flow is about 92% of our non-GAAP net earnings. So that bridge is very good, and we need to see that translate into the cash flow.

因此，對於債務償還，我們將繼續專注於從損益表開始，維持並繼續我們現在正在採取的行動，以保持利潤率成長和獲利能力。自由現金流約占我們非公認會計準則淨收益的 92%。所以這座橋非常好，我們需要看到它轉化為現金流。

We continue to look at repricing and pre-payment of our debt as you saw in January, those opportunities will continue. And in terms of P&L, I think the company is executing well. We are constantly looking at operational excellence programs, which we will continue to do.

我們繼續考慮重新定價和預付債務，正如您在一月份看到的那樣，這些機會將繼續存在。從損益表來看，我認為公司表現良好。我們一直在關注卓越營運計劃，並將繼續這樣做。

And then drive that cash flow to help with the a debt repayment and our capital allocation strategy has not changed. Pre-payment of debt is our number one priority after we invest in the business.

然後推動現金流來幫助償還債務，我們的資本配置策略沒有改變。提前償還債務是我們投資該企業後的首要任務。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Shane Brett, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Shane Brett。

Thank you for taking my question. So your balance sheet inventory was down 20 days quarter to quarter. Is there anything worth noting here? And how should we think about your targets on days of inventory going forward?

感謝您回答我的問題。因此，您的資產負債表庫存比上一季減少了 20 天。這裡面有什麼值得注意的嗎？我們該如何考慮您未來的庫存天數目標？

The reason why I'm asking this is that with what seems like within lead time orders increasing in your semi, I'm just trying to understand how much longer can you support semi continue to come higher than your expectations. Thank you.

我之所以問這個問題，是因為看起來你們的半成品交貨期內的訂單在增加，我只是想知道你們還能支持半成品繼續高於你們的預期多久。謝謝。

Yeah. So we're happy with the progress we made on inventory, Shane, and I think as it starts burning down, we're getting to leaner, normalized turns rates. And as if there's a large ramp up, obviously, we would use some working capital to prepare ahead of time for that's normal.

是的。因此，Shane，我們對庫存方面的進展感到滿意，我認為隨著庫存開始減少，我們將獲得更精簡、更正常的周轉率。如果大幅成長，顯然我們會使用一些營運資金提前做好準備，這是正常的。

But I think we have a little higher inventory than we have in the historic past. And that's because of certain strategic components that we have elected to keep, given what happened at the last ramp with shortages. So inventory is a little higher, but we're happy with the progress we made and decreasing it.

但我認為我們的庫存比歷史上要高一些。這是因為，考慮到上次產能不足的情況，我們選擇保留某些策略組成部分。因此庫存略高，但我們對所取得的進展和減少庫存感到滿意。

Does that answer your questions?

這回答了你的問題嗎？

Yeah. Thank you very much.

是的。非常感謝。

Thanks, Shane.

謝謝，肖恩。

Vijay Rakesh, Mizuho.

瑞穗的 Vijay Rakesh。

Yeah, hey, John, and Ram. I'm just on the AI side, you mentioned, the sales and in packaging. Can you, talk to like what person is that AI makes as a person of a total revenues and how do you see that, I would say growing in 2025? I know you mentioned that, as a person of the substrate market it's pretty small, but if you walk through like just told you what the exposure is.

是的，嘿，約翰和拉姆。我只是負責您提到的人工智慧方面，銷售和包裝方面。您能否談談人工智慧在總收入中所佔的比例是多少，以及您認為到 2025 年人工智慧將如何成長？我知道你提到過，作為基板市場的人來說，這個市場相當小，但如果你仔細了解一下，你就會知道曝光率是多少。

Yeah, Vijay. So it's a little, it's easy to say in certain submarkets like the IC substrate part, which we talked about being kind of 10%, 15% is driven by AI. It's harder to break that out with respect to MLB and HDI, we see the tool orders because those are big markets that are levered to other device types.

是的，維傑。因此，在某些子市場中，例如 IC 基板部分，很容易說出來 10% 到 15% 是由 AI 驅動的。就 MLB 和 HDI 而言，這一點很難突破，我們看到工具訂單，因為它們是與其它設備類型掛鉤的大市場。

I would say also remember that AI is driven by semiconductors, a lot of semiconductors, and we have over 85% of every step in the process of making semi-connected chips. So, if you do understand certainly that AI is driven by Moore's law.

我還要說的是，請記住，人工智慧是由半導體驅動的，大量的半導體，我們在製造半連接晶片的過程中佔據了每個步驟的 85% 以上。所以，如果你確實理解人工智慧是由摩爾定律驅動的。

Moore's law is driven by semiconductor progress and packaging progress. We address 85% of semiconductor processes, 70% of packaging processes. So as a company, we're levered to AI as much as we always have as we -- much as we always have been to Moore's Law. So that's our best answer for you because otherwise breaking it up is pretty difficult for us to do.

摩爾定律是由半導體進步和封裝進步所推動的。我們解決85％的半導體製程和70％的封裝製程。因此，作為一家公司，我們對人工智慧的利用程度一如既往，就像我們一直以來對摩爾定律的利用一樣。所以這是我們能給您的最佳答案，因為否則分解對我們來說是相當困難的。

Got it. And then, Ram, as you look at in a better free cash flow and driving faster better prepayments, any thoughts on the deleveraging from the ForEx down to the 2 times, your longer term target? Are you -- any time and on then are you pulling it in, or you look at that. Thanks.

知道了。然後，Ram，當您看到更好的自由現金流和更快更好的預付款時，對於將 ForEx 的槓桿率降低到 2 倍，您的長期目標有什麼想法嗎？您是否在任何時候將其拉進來，或者您是否看著它。謝謝。

Yeah. Let's just go back to last year just to drive the point home that our folk, we're very focused on what you're asking. In a year when we did not get much help from sales, we repaid close to $500 million, $476 million, including the $50 million mandatory. That alone has brought our number down to 4.3 times.

是的。讓我們回顧去年，只是為了強調這一點，我們的人民非常關注你們所問的問題。在銷售收入沒有為我們帶來太多幫助的一年裡，我們償還了近5億美元，其中4.76億美元，包括強制償還的5000萬美元。僅此一項，我們的數字就下降到了 4.3 倍。

And all expectations are that with a little help from top line, we can accelerate that given our current cost structure. So the plan and the focus is exactly what you said to get that down to acceptable levels, which we have said 2 times net. That's our focus. As for timing, I don't want to predict that now, but rest assured our focus is to get it down to that level.

所有人都期望，在營收的幫助下，我們可以在目前的成本結構下加速這一進程。因此計劃和重點正是您所說的將其降至可接受的水平，我們已經說過兩次了。這就是我們的重點。至於時間，我現在不想預測，但請放心，我們的重點是將其降至該水平。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Thanks, Vijay.

謝謝，維傑。

Joe Quatrochi, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的喬‧夸特羅奇 (Joe Quatrochi)。

Yeah. Thanks for taking the questions. But I think in the past, like during the December quarter call you talked about like the growth that are in your optics business within the semi's business. I was curious how that did in 2024 and how do you think about the opportunity for growth in 2025 given the outlook for some of those customers.

是的。感謝您回答這些問題。但我認為在過去，例如在 12 月季度電話會議中您談到了半導體業務中的光學業務的成長。我很好奇 2024 年的表現如何，以及考慮部分客戶的前景，您如何看待 2025 年的成長機會。

Yeah, Joe. Good morning, it's John. We've talked about optics, world class optics, and we've talked about that revenue over a longer time period as you know going from kind of the $150 million to the $300 million level run rates.

是的，喬。早上好，我是約翰。我們討論了光學、世界一流的光學，我們也討論了更長時間段內的收入，正如你所知，運行率從 1.5 億美元上升到 3 億美元。

So over the last year or two, we've actually outgrown that segment of WFE, the lithography, metrology inspection segment. So '24 was a good year, strong year.

因此在過去的一兩年裡，我們實際上已經超越了 WFE 的部分，即光刻和計量檢測部分。所以 24 年是好年頭，強勁的一年。

Certainly, we're not immune to any cycles in that subsegment of WFE, but as we talked about earlier, it's really the design wins that really give us confidence that we will continue this effort and it will lead us to outperform certainly in that subsegment in WFE overall.

當然，我們並不能免受 WFE 子部分的任何週期的影響，但正如我們之前談到的，正是設計的成功讓我們有信心繼續這一努力，並且它將使我們在 WFE 的該子部分中整體上表現出色。

Thanks. And this is a follow-up maybe a little bit more housekeeping, but I think you're guiding interest expense to be a slightly quarter to quarter. I know it's a net number, but I would have thought, I guess that would be down given the repricing and pre-payment in January.

謝謝。這也許需要後續的一些管理工作，但我認為您指導的利息支出將與上一季相比略有變化。我知道這是一個淨數字，但我原以為，考慮到一月份的重新定價和預付款，這個數字會下降。

Yeah, the main reason is because of, there were two things we clarified the pension reclass impact in Q4, right? Did you get that? So if you take that out, we are our interest in Q4 is $48 million, which is very close to what we guided. The full impact of the $100 million pre-payment and the 25 basis points of reduction that we got in January is not included in in our Q1 guidance.

是的，主要原因是，我們在第四季度澄清了兩件事，退休金重新分類的影響，對嗎？你明白了嗎？因此，如果去掉這個數字，我們在第四季的權益是 4800 萬美元，這與我們預期的非常接近。我們一月份獲得的 1 億美元預付款和 25 個基點的減幅的全部影響並未包含在我們的第一季指引中。

Our Q1 guidance is [49.5], which is, if you look at quarter over quarter, we have dropped our interest rates by 40% compared to Q1 '24 versus Q1 '25.

我們的第一季指引是 [49.5]，也就是說，如果按季度來看，與 2024 年第一季相比，我們對 2025 年第一季的利率下降了 40%。

So that's a good model for you to look at what we have done today, the impact of what we have done today, and we will continue to look for additional opportunities to bring our interest rate down and also to accelerate our pre-payments.

所以這是一個很好的模型，讓您看看我們今天所做的事情，我們今天所做的事情的影響，我們將繼續尋找其他機會來降低我們的利率並加快我們的預付款。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Thanks, Joe.

謝謝，喬。

Thank you. This does conclude the question-and-answer session of today's program. I'd like to hand the program back to Paretosh Misra for any further remarks.

謝謝。今天節目的問答環節到此結束。我想將該計劃交還給帕雷托什·米斯拉 (Paretosh Misra)，以便他可以做出進一步的評論。

Thank you all for joining us today and for your interest in MKS. Operator, you may close the call, please.

感謝大家今天的加入我們並關注 MKS。接線員，請您掛斷電話。

Certainly. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Good day.

當然。女士們、先生們，感謝大家參加今天的會議。該計劃確實結束了。您現在可以斷開連線。再會。