萬機儀器 (MKSI) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the MKS Instruments third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 MKS Instruments 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Paretosh Misra, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給今天的第一位發言人，投資者關係副總裁帕雷托什·米斯拉 (Paretosh Misra)。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. I'm Paretosh Misra, Vice President of Investor Relations, and I'm joined this morning by John Lee, President and Chief Executive Officer; Ram Mayampurath, Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer; and Michelle McCarthy, Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer.

大家早安。我是投資者關係副總裁帕雷托什‧米斯拉 (Paretosh Misra)，今天早上與我一起出席的還有總裁兼執行長約翰‧李 (John Lee)。 Ram Mayampurath，執行副總裁、財務長兼財務長；副總裁兼首席會計官米歇爾·麥卡錫。

Yesterday, after market close, we released our financial results for the third quarter of 2024, which are posted to our investor website at investor.mks.com. As a reminder, various remarks about future expectations, plans and prospects for MKS comprise forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially as a result of various important factors, including those discussed in yesterday's press release and in our most recent annual report on Form 10-K.

昨天收盤後，我們發布了 2024 年第三季的財務業績，該業績已發佈在我們的投資者網站 Investor.mks.com 上。謹此提醒，有關 MKS 未來預期、計劃和前景的各種言論均構成前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能會因各種重要因素而產生重大差異，包括昨天的新聞稿和我們最新的 10-K 表格年度報告中討論的因素。

These statements represent the company's expectations only as of today and should not be relied upon as representing the company's estimates or views as of any date subsequent to today, and the company disclaims any obligation to update these statements.

這些陳述僅代表本公司截至今日的預期，不應被視為代表本公司截至今日任何日期的估計或觀點，且本公司不承擔更新這些陳述的任何義務。

During the call, we will be discussing various non-GAAP financial measures. Unless otherwise noted, all income statement-related financial measures will be non-GAAP, other than revenue and gross margin. Please refer to our press release and the presentation materials posted to the Investor Relations section of our website for information regarding our non-GAAP financial results and a reconciliation to our GAAP measures. Our investor website also provides a detailed breakout of revenues by end market and division.

在電話會議期間，我們將討論各種非公認會計準則財務指標。除非另有說明，除收入和毛利率外，所有與損益表相關的財務指標都將採用非公認會計準則。請參閱我們的新聞稿和發佈在我們網站投資者關係部分的演示材料，以了解有關我們的非公認會計原則財務業績以及與我們的公認會計原則措施的調節的信息。我們的投資者網站也提供了按終端市場和部門劃分的詳細收入明細。

Now, I'll turn the call over to John.

現在，我將把電話轉給約翰。

Thanks, Paretosh, and good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to introduce and welcome our new CFO, Ram Mayampurath, to MKS. Ram joined MKS in October and is actively diving into the business, engaging with our business leaders and already contributing to our strategic initiatives. We're excited to have him on board, and I'm confident his leadership will be instrumental as we continue to drive growth and execute on our long-term strategy.

謝謝帕雷托什，大家早安。我很高興向 MKS 介紹並歡迎我們的新任財務長 Ram Mayampurath。Ram 於 10 月加入 MKS，積極投入業務，與我們的業務領導者合作，並已為我們的策略舉措做出了貢獻。我們很高興他加入，我相信他的領導將在我們繼續推動成長和執行我們的長期策略的過程中發揮重要作用。

Ram will share some brief remarks later on this call, and he'll take the lead in discussing our financial results next quarter. Michelle will handle the financial results today, and I'd add that she's done a terrific job for MKS during this transition period.

拉姆稍後將在本次電話會議上發表一些簡短的講話，他將帶頭討論我們下個季度的財務業績。米歇爾今天將處理財務業績，我想補充一點，她在過渡期間為 MKS 做了出色的工作。

MKS delivered a strong third quarter with all key financial metrics at or above the high end of our guidance ranges. Our gross margin strength reflects the value of our broad and differentiated product portfolio, including our chemistry revenues, which have supported profitability during a period of muted semiconductor demand.

MKS 第三季業績強勁，所有關鍵財務指標達到或高於我們指引範圍的上限。我們的毛利率實力反映了我們廣泛且差異化的產品組合的價值，包括我們的化學收入，這在半導體需求疲軟的時期支撐了獲利能力。

Additionally, our operating margin profile demonstrates our continued cost discipline, resulting in continued strong cash flows. We have also made meaningful progress on our highest priority, proactively managing our leverage. During the quarter, we repriced our US dollar and Euro Term Loan B's, reducing our interest rate by 25 basis points. And we continue to actively pay down our debt, supported by our strong free cash flow generation of over $140 million in the third quarter.

此外，我們的營業利潤率狀況顯示我們持續的成本控制，導致持續強勁的現金流。我們也在我們的首要任務上取得了有意義的進展，即積極管理我們的影響力。本季度，我們重新定價了美元和歐元定期貸款 B，將利率降低了 25 個基點。在第三季超過 1.4 億美元的強勁自由現金流的支持下，我們繼續積極償還債務。

These actions bring our year-to-date 2024 prepayments to $426 million. During my recent travels to Asia and meet with customers, we discussed many of the key trends and challenges they must overcome to execute their technology road maps, especially as many of them prepare for the next-generation challenges in AI-related advancements.

這些行動使我們 2024 年迄今的預付款達到 4.26 億美元。在我最近前往亞洲並與客戶會面期間，我們討論了他們在執行技術路線圖時必須克服的許多關鍵趨勢和挑戰，特別是當他們中的許多人為人工智慧相關進步的下一代挑戰做好準備時。

As node sizes continue to shrink and technology grows more complex, the importance of our broad portfolio of critical technologies has never been more important, and our customers recognize this. As a result, I came away from these conversations even more confident that our differentiated capabilities will accelerate our customers' road maps and lead to their market success.

隨著節點規模不斷縮小，技術變得越來越複雜，我們廣泛的關鍵技術組合的重要性從未如此重要，我們的客戶也意識到了這一點。因此，在這些對話結束後，我更加確信我們的差異化能力將加速客戶的路線圖並引導他們取得市場成功。

Now I'll review our performance in our three end markets.

現在我將回顧我們在三個終端市場的表現。

In our semiconductor market, revenue increased 3% sequentially and above the high end of our guidance range. Similar to our first half results, this higher revenue trend was primarily driven by in-quarter demand conversion related to DRAM and logic/foundry applications.

在我們的半導體市場，營收季增 3%，高於我們指導範圍的上限。與我們上半年的業績類似，這種收入成長趨勢主要是由與 DRAM 和邏輯/代工應用相關的季度需求轉換所推動的。

NAND has remained relatively stable, albeit at historically low levels, and we remain well positioned when that market recovers. Our teams are engaged with equipment OEMs and leading semiconductor fabs in addressing a broad range of technology inflections such as atomic layer deposition in both logic and memory applications, high aspect ratio etching for memory devices and selective removal processes for logic gate-all-around transistors. Additionally, we continue to advance our strategy to grow segment share in lithography, metrology and inspection.

儘管處於歷史低位，但 NAND 仍保持相對穩定，當市場復甦時，我們仍處於有利地位。我們的團隊與設備原始設備製造商和領先的半導體工廠合作，解決廣泛的技術變化，例如邏輯和存儲器應用中的原子層沉積、存儲器設備的高深寬比蝕刻以及邏輯全柵晶體管的選擇性去除工藝。此外，我們繼續推動策略，以增加光刻、計量和檢測領域的細分市場份額。

Following the strategic photonics win we talked about last quarter, we recently achieved a design win for our world-class optics initiative with another customer that further highlights our increasingly differentiated technology capabilities in this attractive segment of the WFE market.

繼我們上季度談到的戰略性光子學勝利之後，我們最近與另一家客戶一起贏得了世界級光學計劃的設計勝利，這進一步凸顯了我們在WFE 市場這一有吸引力的領域中日益差異化的技術能力。

In our laser business, we also received an order for a back-end application related to high-bandwidth memory, validating the important role that MKS solutions play in AI-related applications. In the fourth quarter, we expect semiconductor revenue to be flattish on a sequential basis. The guidance demonstrates continued stability in DRAM and logic/foundry demand, with NAND remaining at low levels.

在我們的雷射業務中，我們還收到了與高頻寬記憶體相關的後端應用的訂單，驗證了MKS解決方案在AI相關應用中發揮的重要作用。我們預計第四季半導體營收將環比持平。此指引顯示 DRAM 和邏輯/代工需求持續穩定，而 NAND 仍保持在較低水準。

Overall, we remain confident that the work we have been doing in the development of innovative solutions for the next wave of technological advancements positions us well for the future success. Turning to Electronics and Packaging.

總體而言，我們仍然相信，我們在為下一波技術進步開發創新解決方案方面所做的工作將為我們未來的成功奠定良好的基礎。轉向電子和包裝。

Revenue grew 1% sequentially, driven by chemistry sales. Equipment sales were down sequentially, in line with our expectations and reflecting typical quarter-to-quarter variations. While demand overall remains muted, we are seeing encouraging order activity, including in flexible PCB drilling used in smartphone applications and for our chemistry and equipment solutions for advanced MLB, HDI and package substrates related to AI applications.

在化學品銷售的推動下，營收季增 1%。設備銷售額連續下降，符合我們的預期，並反映了典型的季度變化。雖然整體需求仍然低迷，但我們看到了令人鼓舞的訂單活動，包括智慧型手機應用中使用的柔性 PCB 鑽孔，以及與人工智慧應用相關的先進 MLB、HDI 和封裝基板的化學和設備解決方案。

Our combined expertise in laser drilling, chemistries and chemistry equipment enables our unique role in optimizing the interconnect, which is central to addressing increasingly complex packaging needs in the AI era.

我們在雷射鑽孔、化學和化學設備方面的綜合專業知識使我們在優化互連方面發揮獨特的作用，這對於解決人工智慧時代日益複雜的封裝需求至關重要。

These wins are expected to support higher electronics and packaging revenue in Q4 with growth anticipated to be in the low single digits on a sequential basis. In our specialty industrial market, revenues decreased approximately 1% sequentially with steady performance in the industrial and research and defense end markets, offset by softness in the life and health sciences market.

這些勝利預計將支持第四季度更高的電子和封裝收入，預計環比增長將在低個位數。在我們的特種工業市場，營收季減約 1%，工業、研究和國防終端市場表現穩定，但被生命和健康科學市場的疲軟所抵消。

As a reminder, our specialty industrial market consists of a variety of applications across multiple end markets. We leverage our proprietary technologies and R&D investments in the semiconductor and electronics and packaging sectors to provide unique solutions that yield strong incremental margins and cash generation.

提醒一下，我們的特種工業市場由多個終端市場的各種應用所組成。我們利用我們在半導體、電子和包裝領域的專有技術和研發投資來提供獨特的解決方案，從而產生強勁的增量利潤和現金產生。

Looking ahead to Q4, we expect revenue in our specialty industrial market to increase slightly from Q3. In conclusion, we are pleased with our execution and financial performance in the third quarter. Given our strong third quarter results and our fourth quarter outlook, we now expect second half revenue to be up low to mid-single digits compared to the first half.

展望第四季度，我們預期特種工業市場的營收將較第三季略有成長。總之，我們對第三季的執行和財務表現感到滿意。鑑於我們強勁的第三季業績和第四季前景，我們現在預計下半年營收將比上半年成長到中個位數。

Although signs of a recovery have not yet emerged across our end markets, our execution remains solid in the areas we can control. Our strong gross and operating margins have led to solid cash flow generation to support debt reduction throughout a year where our major end markets have been soft. This, along with our design wins and continuous innovation, gives me confidence that we are well positioned as markets recover.

儘管我們的終端市場尚未出現復甦的跡象，但我們在我們可以控制的領域的執行力仍然穩固。我們強勁的毛利率和營業利潤率帶來了穩定的現金流，以支持全年主要終端市場疲軟的債務削減。這一點，加上我們的設計勝利和持續創新，讓我相信，隨著市場復甦，我們處於有利地位。

Now let me turn it over to Ram to provide some brief remarks, and then Michelle will run through the third quarter financial results in more detail. Ram?

現在讓我將其交給拉姆提供一些簡短的評論，然後米歇爾將更詳細地介紹第三季的財務表現。記憶體？

Thank you, John, and good morning, everyone. I'm very excited to be a part of the MKS team, and I look forward to working with John and the leadership team to execute our strategic plan. It's obviously early days at this point, but let me share a few comments on my initial observations.

謝謝約翰，大家早安。我很高興成為 MKS 團隊的一員，我期待與 John 和領導團隊合作執行我們的策略計畫。現在顯然還為時過早，但讓我就我的初步觀察分享一些評論。

MKS is a technology-driven secular growth company. The breadth of our product offering and early engagement strategy with customers, combined with the execution capabilities of the MKS team, puts the company in an enviable position.

MKS 是一家由科技驅動的長期成長型公司。我們產品供應的廣度和與客戶的早期互動策略，再加上 MKS 團隊的執行能力，使公司處於令人羨慕的地位。

We are focused on attractive growth areas that enable today's advanced electronics devices. In the past few weeks, I have had a chance to meet many of our employees, and I have tremendous respect for their knowledge of the business and ability to execute. I see great value in the talent, culture and discipline here at MKS.

我們專注於支持當今先進電子設備的有吸引力的成長領域。在過去的幾周里，我有機會見到了我們的許多員工，我非常尊重他們的業務知識和執行能力。我看到 MKS 的人才、文化和紀律具有巨大價值。

As for my own team, we have a deep bench of finance and accounting professionals with a mosaic of talent. We have a good mix of several recent hires with new ideas and capabilities, and veterans with in-depth knowledge of MKS.

至於我自己的團隊，我們擁有一大批財務和會計專業人士，人才薈萃。我們擁有一群具有新想法和能力的新員工，以及對 MKS 有深入了解的退伍軍人。

In the coming quarters, my focus will be on maintaining our cost discipline, driving profitability. We will continue to maximize cash generation to support our capital allocation strategy, which will primarily be centered around debt management and investing in CapEx to support our business strategy.

在接下來的幾個季度中，我的重點將是維持我們的成本紀律，提高獲利能力。我們將繼續最大限度地產生現金，以支持我們的資本配置策略，該策略將主要圍繞債務管理和資本支出投資以支持我們的業務策略。

We will remain focused on improving our overall cost structure to ensure that we are well positioned to take full advantage as the semiconductor and electronics market returns to normal levels of growth.

我們將繼續專注於改善整體成本結構，以確保我們能夠在半導體和電子市場恢復正常成長水平時充分利用優勢。

With that, let me turn it over to Michelle to review our financial results for the quarter.

接下來，讓我將其交給米歇爾來審查我們本季的財務表現。

Thank you, Ram, and good morning, everyone. For the third quarter, MKS reported revenue of $896 million, up 1% sequentially and at the high end of our guidance range, driven by better-than-expected semiconductor and electronics and packaging revenue.

謝謝拉姆，大家早安。在比預期的半導體、電子和封裝收入更好的推動下，MKS 第三季的營收為 8.96 億美元，季增 1%，處於我們指引範圍的高端。

Third quarter semiconductor revenue was $378 million, up 3%, both sequentially and year-over-year. The result was above the high end of our expectations. Consistent with the first half of the year, we executed on strong in-quarter demand, especially as related to DRAM and logic/foundry applications.

第三季半導體營收為 3.78 億美元，季增 3%。結果超出了我們的預期。與上半年一致，我們滿足了強勁的季度需求，特別是與 DRAM 和邏輯/代工應用相關的需求。

Third quarter Electronics and Packaging revenue was $231 million, an increase of 1% quarter-over-quarter and also above the high end of our expectations. This result was led by seasonal strength in chemistry, partially offset by lower equipment sales, which were in line with our expectations.

第三季電子和封裝收入為 2.31 億美元，季增 1%，也高於我們預期的上限。這一結果是由化學行業的季節性強勁帶動的，但部分被設備銷售的下降所抵消，這符合我們的預期。

On a year-over-year basis, sales were down 5%, primarily due to palladium prices as well as natural variability in our equipment business. Excluding the impact of FX and palladium pass-through, chemistry sales grew 7% year-over-year, continuing a gradual recovery trend from industry-wide softness.

銷售額年減 5%，主要是由於鈀金價格以及我們設備業務的自然變化。排除外匯和鈀金傳導的影響，化學品銷售額年增 7%，延續了全行業疲軟的逐步復甦趨勢。

In our specialty industrial market, third quarter revenue was $287 million, a decline of 1% sequentially and just below our guidance midpoint. Revenue was down 11% on a year-over-year basis, primarily due to general industrial weakness. Consistent with the prior quarter, we observed minor and mostly offsetting fluctuations throughout the multiple end markets served within Specialty Industrial.

在我們的特種工業市場，第三季營收為 2.87 億美元，季減 1%，略低於我們的指引中位數。營收年減 11%，主要是由於整體工業疲軟。與上一季一致，我們觀察到特種工業服務的多個終端市場出現了輕微且大部分的抵銷波動。

Turning to margins. We reported third quarter gross margin of 48.2%, above the high end of our guidance. Gross margin was up sequentially due to product mix as well as operating leverage on higher revenues. We continue to prudently manage our costs, with third quarter operating expenses of $237 million coming within our guidance range.

轉向邊緣。我們公佈的第三季毛利率為 48.2%，高於我們指引的上限。由於產品組合以及收入增加的營運槓桿，毛利率連續上升。我們繼續審慎管理成本，第三季營運費用 2.37 億美元在我們的指導範圍內。

We have a strong track record of managing our cost structure throughout market cycles, which allows us to balance investing in our business with near-term profitability and cash generation. Looking ahead, we expect operating expenses will increase modestly from third quarter levels due to compensation costs, including the timing of new planned hires as well as certain third-party spend.

我們在整個市場週期的成本結構管理方面擁有良好的記錄，這使我們能夠平衡業務投資與近期盈利能力和現金生成。展望未來，我們預計，由於補償成本（包括新計劃招聘的時間表以及某些第三方支出），營運支出將較第三季水準小幅增加。

Third quarter operating income was $195 million, yielding an operating margin of 21.8%, both well above our guidance, driven by strong sales, higher gross margin and prudent operating expense management.

第三季營業收入為 1.95 億美元，營業利潤率為 21.8%，均遠高於我們的指導，這得益於強勁的銷售、更高的毛利率和審慎的營業費用管理。

Third quarter adjusted EBITDA was $232 million and also above the high end of our expectations with a 25.9% margin. Net interest expense was $53 million, slightly favorable to our guidance of $54 million, reflecting a decrease in Euribor rates in the quarter.

第三季調整後 EBITDA 為 2.32 億美元，也高於我們預期的上限，利潤率為 25.9%。淨利息支出為 5,300 萬美元，略優於我們 5,400 萬美元的指導，反映出本季度歐洲銀行同業拆借利率 (Euribor) 利率的下降。

Third quarter net earnings were $116 million or $1.72 per diluted share, well above our guidance range, reflecting the strong operating performance I just detailed and a lower-than-expected tax rate. Free cash flow was $141 million or nearly 16% of revenue, demonstrating the cash flow generation potential of the business. As the top line expands and we continue to prudently manage working capital and operating costs, we expect to see strong flow-through to the bottom line and higher cash flows, allowing us to accelerate our deleveraging.

第三季淨利為 1.16 億美元，即稀釋後每股收益 1.72 美元，遠高於我們的指導範圍，反映出我剛才詳述的強勁營運業績和低於預期的稅率。自由現金流為 1.41 億美元，接近收入的 16%，展示了該業務的現金流量產生潛力。隨著收入的擴大以及我們繼續審慎管理營運資金和營運成本，我們預計將看到強勁的利潤流入和更高的現金流，使我們能夠加速去槓桿化。

We closed the third quarter with more than $1.5 billion of liquidity comprised of cash and cash equivalents of $861 million and our undrawn revolving credit facility of $675 million. We exited the quarter with gross debt of $4.9 billion and a net leverage ratio of 4.5 times based on our trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA of $895 million.

第三季結束時，我們的流動資金超過 15 億美元，其中包括 8.61 億美元的現金和現金等價物以及 6.75 億美元的未提取循環信貸額度。本季結束時，我們的總債務為 49 億美元，根據過去 12 個月的調整後 EBITDA 8.95 億美元計算，淨槓桿率為 4.5 倍。

We continue to prioritize deleveraging our balance sheet while managing the cash and investment needs of the business. In July, we made $110 million voluntary prepayment on our Term Loan B in connection with our repricing. Additionally, in October, we made another voluntary prepayment of $216 million on our Euro-denominated Term Loan B. These actions underscore our continued focus on debt reduction.

我們繼續優先考慮去槓桿化資產負債表，同時管理業務的現金和投資需求。7 月份，我們因重新定價而自願預付了 1.1 億美元的定期貸款 B。此外，10 月份，我們自願預付了 2.16 億美元的歐元計價定期貸款 B。

To put perspective around the impact of our debt actions this year, we entered 2024 with an annual interest expense run rate of approximately $330 million. With the actions we've taken year-to-date and favorable movements in Euribor rates, we have reduced our annual interest expense run rate by one-third, or over $100 million, to approximately $220 million. Finally, during the third quarter, we paid a dividend of $0.22 per share or $15 million.

為了審視今年債務行動的影響，進入 2024 年，我們的年利息支出運作率為約 3.3 億美元。透過我們今年迄今採取的行動以及 Euribor 利率的有利變動，我們已將年度利息支出運行率降低了三分之一（即超過 1 億美元），達到約 2.2 億美元。最後，在第三季度，我們支付了每股 0.22 美元的股息，即 1500 萬美元。

With that, I'd like to turn the call back over to John, who will review our outlook. John?

說到這裡，我想把電話轉回給約翰，他將回顧我們的前景。約翰？

Thank you, Michelle. Let me now turn to our fourth quarter outlook. We expect revenue of $910 million, plus or minus $40 million. By end market, our fourth quarter outlook is as follows: Revenue from our semiconductor market is expected to be $380 million, plus or minus $15 million. Revenue from our electronics and packaging market is expected to be $240 million, plus or minus $10 million, and revenue from our specialty industrial market is expected to be $290 million, plus or minus $15 million. Based on anticipated revenue levels and product mix, we estimate fourth quarter gross margin of 47%, plus or minus 100 basis points.

謝謝你，米歇爾。現在讓我談談我們第四季的展望。我們預計營收為 9.1 億美元，上下浮動 4,000 萬美元。對於終端市場，我們對第四季度的展望如下：我們的半導體市場收入預計為 3.8 億美元，上下浮動 1500 萬美元。我們的電子和包裝市場的收入預計為 2.4 億美元，上下浮動 1000 萬美元，我們的專業工業市場的收入預計為 2.9 億美元，上下浮動 1500 萬美元。根據預期營收水準和產品組合，我們預期第四季毛利率為 47%，上下浮動 100 個基點。

We expect fourth quarter operating expenses of $240 million, plus or minus $5 million. We estimate adjusted EBITDA of $226 million, plus or minus $23 million. We expect a tax rate of approximately 6% in the fourth quarter, benefiting from certain favorable discrete tax items in the quarter and bringing our full year tax rate to just under 16%.

我們預計第四季營運費用為 2.4 億美元，上下浮動 500 萬美元。我們預計調整後 EBITDA 為 2.26 億美元，上下浮動 2,300 萬美元。我們預計第四季的稅率約為 6%，受益於本季某些有利的離散稅項，將使我們的全年稅率略低於 16%。

Based on these assumptions, we expect fourth quarter net earnings per diluted share of $1.95, plus or minus $0.32. Our execution has remained strong despite the cyclical challenges in our end markets. We are confident that we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on the opportunities that lie ahead.

基於這些假設，我們預計第四季攤薄後每股淨利潤為 1.95 美元，上下浮動 0.32 美元。儘管終端市場面臨週期性挑戰，但我們的執行力仍然強勁。我們相信，我們處於獨特的地位，可以利用未來的機會。

With that, operator, please open the call for Q&A.

那麼，接線員，請打開問答電話。

(Operator Instructions) Matthew Prisco, Cantor.

（操作員說明）Matthew Prisco、Cantor。

I guess maybe to start, on your semiconductors business, can you maybe add some more color on what you're seeing in terms of customer utilization rates, spare business, ordering patterns or anything else that may help inform an early view into 2025 dynamics?

我想也許首先從您的半導體業務開始，您能否在客戶利用率、閒置業務、訂購模式或其他任何可能有助於早期了解 2025 年動態的方面添加一些更多的色彩？

Matt, it's John. Thanks for the question. I think we've continued to see utilization rates pick up. Certainly, HBM DRAM utilizations have been great. So we're seeing the same things that many people have talked about. Logic and foundry, certain customers remains very strong.

馬特，這是約翰。謝謝你的提問。我認為我們的利用率持續上升。當然，HBM DRAM 利用率很高。所以我們看到了很多人談論過的同樣的事情。邏輯和代工，某些客戶仍然非常強大。

And then NAND remains muted. So I think when you think about 2025, I think the views have come down over the year, but it's still generally an up year. And that's not necessarily our opinion. That's what we're seeing from many of our customers and what they're telling us.

然後 NAND 仍然保持沉默。所以我認為，當你想到 2025 年時，我認為這一年的觀點有所下降，但總的來說仍然是上升的一年。這不一定是我們的觀點。這就是我們從許多客戶那裡看到的以及他們告訴我們的。

So I think NAND still remains muted and depends on when that turns. But foundry/logic, DRAM seem to be holding up well, and the expectation is that it will hold up well in 2025 as well.

所以我認為 NAND 仍然保持沉默，取決於何時轉變。但代工/邏輯、DRAM 似乎表現良好，預計 2025 年也表現良好。

Great. That's helpful. And then I would love to hear a little bit more color on your progress in the photonics initiatives. And then also given the pushouts experienced by your largest litho player, how does this change your ramp expectations around your new photonics win and subsequent duration of that margin headwind?

偉大的。這很有幫助。然後我很想聽聽您在光子學計劃方面取得的更多進展。然後，考慮到您最大的光刻廠商所經歷的淘汰，這將如何改變您對新光子學勝利的預期以及隨後的利潤逆風持續時間？

Right. So, yeah, we talked about last quarter a photonics win. This quarter, we talked about another photonics win with a different customer. So this is in the lithography, metrology inspection space, as you know.

正確的。所以，是的，我們談論了上個季度光子學的勝利。本季度，我們談論了與不同客戶的另一個光子學勝利。如您所知，這是在光刻、計量檢測領域。

Certainly, the lead times for those kinds of subsystems as well as, of course, the systems are much longer. than in the vacuum area for WFE. And so short term, I don't think there's really any effect because the lead times are quite long for our stuff as well as their stuff.

當然，這類子系統以及系統的交付週期要長得多。與 WFE 的真空區域相比。從短期來看，我認為不會產生任何影響，因為我們的產品和他們的產品的交貨時間都很長。

So longer term, of course, market demands will determine what the long-term needs are for critical lithography tools, metrology tools and inspection tools. So I think our point is there's lots of opportunity there to gain share with the technology we provide. We think we're unique because we can bring more tools to the toolbox, integrating different kinds of technologies together that makes us unique.

當然，從長遠來看，市場需求將決定對關鍵光刻工具、計量工具和檢測工具的長期需求。因此，我認為我們的觀點是，我們提供的技術有許多機會獲得市場份額。我們認為我們是獨一無二的，因為我們可以為工具箱帶來更多工具，將不同類型的技術整合在一起，使我們獨一無二。

So longer term, we're still very excited about our growth in the world-class optics initiative as well as the market share gain opportunities in this segment of WFE.

從長遠來看，我們仍然對世界級光學計畫的成長以及 WFE 這一領域的市場份額獲得機會感到非常興奮。

Steve Barger, KBCM.

史蒂夫·巴格，KBCM。

At the -- looking at the guidance at the midpoint, gross margin steps down about 120 basis points sequentially. Is that mix? Or can you talk through what the swing factors are around that range?

從中點的指導來看，毛利率持續下降約 120 個基點。那是混合嗎？或者您能談談該範圍內的波動因素是什麼嗎？

Yeah, Steve, thanks for the question. It is mix. We expect Electronics and Packaging revenue to be a little higher next quarter, as we just said. And that -- a lot of that is driven by equipment. So we did see some promising orders in Q3 for equipment related to AI.

是的，史蒂夫，謝謝你的提問。它是混合的。正如我們剛才所說，我們預計下季電子和包裝收入將略高。其中很大一部分是由設備驅動的。因此，我們在第三季確實看到了一些與人工智慧相關的設備的有前景的訂單。

And this is equipment that's servicing all segments of the PCB industry, the HDI, the MLB and then the package substrate. And as we've talked about in the past, to make an AI board, you need the package substrate, of course, that's the highest density type of -- most advanced part of the PCB industry.

該設備為 PCB 產業的所有領域、HDI、MLB 以及封裝基板提供服務。正如我們過去談到的，要製造 AI 板，您需要封裝基板，當然，這是 PCB 行業中密度最高的類型 - 最先進的部分。

But then you've got to put it on HDI and MOB boards. And so it was quite interesting for us to see some of our customers start ordering for those applications. And so that equipment revenue will flow through into Q4. And as you know, our equipment gross margin is slightly lower than the chemistry. So that's really part of it. That's really that mix.

但接下來你必須把它放在 HDI 和 MOB 板上。因此，看到我們的一些客戶開始訂購這些應用程序，我們感到非常有趣。因此設備收入將流入第四季。如您所知，我們的設備毛利率略低於化學。這確實是其中的一部分。確實是這樣的組合。

Got it. So, encouraging, but a little lower margin on the equipment. That's good. And maybe a question for Ram. You're coming into a situation where end markets are recovering, but there's still some uncertainty. How are you going to balance cost control versus the market share initiatives that we're talking about, inventory levels, just to make sure that service levels are high? Maybe just talk about what you're prioritizing as you go through the next few quarters?

知道了。因此，令人鼓舞，但設備的利潤率略低。那挺好的。也許還有一個問題要問拉姆。終端市場正在復甦，但仍存在一些不確定性。您將如何平衡成本控制與我們正在討論的市場份額計劃、庫存水平，以確保高服務水平？也許只是談談您在接下來的幾個季度中優先考慮的事情？

Yeah. Thanks, Steve. That's a great question. I think it's always a balance between meeting your current quarter and forecast guidance and making sure your long-term strategic plan initiatives are well funded and resourced.

是的。謝謝，史蒂夫。這是一個很好的問題。我認為這始終是滿足當前季度和預測指引與確保長期策略計畫舉措資金充足和資源充足之間的平衡。

So we have done a good job in maintaining our cost discipline. And my immediate focus will be to make sure that continues. The margin progression continues and the cash generation that we have demonstrated keeps going so that we can strengthen our balance sheet with debt management. So those priorities don't change, will remain our focus.

因此，我們在維持成本紀律方面做得很好。我目前的重點將是確保這種情況繼續下去。利潤率持續成長，我們所展示的現金產生能力也持續成長，因此我們可以透過債務管理來強化我們的資產負債表。因此，這些優先事項不會改變，仍然是我們的重點。

Yeah. I would add too, Steve, that we're really investing where we think the best opportunities are. So R&D is not starved. We expanded -- even field service to service the growing base of equipment as well. So to Ram's point, it's always a balance, but we are certainly very aggressive in putting money into opportunities as we see them. And some examples were RF power five years ago and world-class optics more recently as well as lasers and other opportunities that come up out as the markets change.

是的。史蒂夫，我還要補充一點，我們確實是在我們認為最好的機會所在的地方進行投資。所以研發並不匱乏。我們甚至擴大了現場服務範圍，為不斷成長的設備群提供服務。因此，在拉姆看來，這始終是一種平衡，但我們當然會非常積極地將資金投入我們所看到的機會。一些例子包括五年前的射頻功率和最近的世界級光學元件，以及隨著市場變化而出現的雷射和其他機會。

Yeah. And just to add one more thought to what John just said. We are not starving our CapEx or we continue to invest in the business. Both in CapEx and in the P&L, like John said. So those activities and focus will continue.

是的。我想對約翰剛才所說的話再補充一點。我們不會減少資本支出，或者我們會繼續投資該業務。正如約翰所說，無論是資本支出或損益表。因此，這些活動和重點將持續下去。

Jim Ricchiuti, Needham & Company.

吉姆‧里奇烏蒂 (Jim Ricchiuti)，李約瑟公司。

This is Chris Grenga on for Jim. Could you elaborate on what you're seeing from a demand standpoint in some of the primary industrial end markets, in particular, automotive? And could you remind us what share of revenue is exclusively for enabling EV type applications?

我是克里斯·格倫加 (Chris Grenga) 替吉姆 (Jim) 發言。您能否從一些主要工業終端市場（特別是汽車市場）的需求角度詳細說明您所看到的情況？您能否提醒我們，專門用於支援電動車類型應用的收入份額是多少？

Yeah. Thanks for the question, Chris. So what we've seen in automotive is certainly more muted, and that's not a surprise. It's well documented. Our automotive revenue has been pretty stable, though, even in this muted environment. And this is really the GMF business, the kind of brake calipers and decorative type of things that go into cars, both ICE and EV.

是的。謝謝你的提問，克里斯。因此，我們在汽車領域看到的情況肯定更加平靜，這並不奇怪。這是有據可查的。不過，即使在這種低迷的環境下，我們的汽車收入也相當穩定。這確實是 GMF 業務，即用於汽車（內燃機和電動車）的煞車卡鉗和裝飾類產品。

We haven't broken out EV versus ICE. I think there's a lot of opportunities that arise with EV, such as all the components that go into the battery that require metal coatings. So those are opportunities, tailwinds. And then some things go away, such as perhaps as much chrome on the front of the grill. So there's puts and takes.

我們還沒有將電動車與內燃機汽車進行比較。我認為電動車會帶來很多機會，例如電池中的所有組件都需要金屬塗層。所以這些都是機會、順風車。然後有些東西就消失了，例如烤架前面可能有同樣多的鉻。所以有投入和拿取。

But right now, we think that EVs offer a slightly better opportunity for our GMF business. And that's not even adding to the electronics part. So the electronics part for automotive, it's really still not categorized in the automotive part of our business. It's really part of our electronics business. So automotive units are down worldwide, but our business there seems to be holding up pretty steadily.

但目前，我們認為電動車為我們的基因改造食品業務提供了更好的機會。這甚至還沒有增加電子部分。因此，汽車電子零件實際上仍然沒有被歸類為我們業務的汽車部分。這確實是我們電子業務的一部分。因此，全球汽車銷量都在下降，但我們在那裡的業務似乎相當穩定。

And given some of the concerns that we're reading about in terms of WFE spend in China and prospectively, can you offer any sense of how much your business in semiconductor, either directly or indirectly, is exposed to that region?

考慮到我們正在閱讀的有關 WFE 在中國的支出以及未來的一些擔憂，您能否介紹一下您的半導體業務（無論是直接還是間接）在該地區的暴露程度？

Sure. In 2022, October 2022, that's one that affected us the most because it restricted our ability to sell directly to -- specific equipment OEM customers in China. We had talked about that publicly to the order of $200 million that was at risk.

當然。2022 年，也就是 2022 年 10 月，這是對我們影響最大的一年，因為它限制了我們直接向中國特定設備 OEM 客戶銷售的能力。我們曾公開討論過這個問題，大約有 2 億美元面臨風險。

So those numbers are out of our numbers now. They've been out for two years now. So there's no additional risk besides just the normal WFE market of China, and we're selling indirectly. We're selling to the five big equipment OEMs as well as others. And as they ship to China, then that's where our revenue comes from. So we really look at the exposure as much more in line with the market exposure, not anything particular to MKS.

所以這些數字現在已經超出我們的範圍了。他們已經出去兩年了。所以除了中國正常的WFE市場之外，沒有額外的風險，而且我們是間接銷售。我們向五家大型設備原始設備製造商以及其他廠商銷售產品。當他們運往中國時，這就是我們的收入來源。因此，我們確實將風險敞口視為與市場風險敞口更加一致，而不是 MKS 特有的任何東西。

Vijay Rakesh, Mizuho.

維傑·拉克什，瑞穗。

Just a couple of questions. When you look at the March quarter, just wondering how the -- how you're thinking about the seasonality? And then just big picture on 2025 on WFE, with some of the puts and takes between the China restrictions and the CHIPS Act, especially with the new administration, how are you thinking?

只是幾個問題。當您查看三月季度時，只是想知道您如何看待季節性？然後是 2025 年 WFE 的總體情況，包括對中國的限制和 CHIPS 法案之間的一些取捨，特別是新政府的情況，您有何想法？

Yeah. I think your first part was about any cyclicality -- or seasonality, sorry, in Q3. There is always a little seasonality to our chemistry business for electronics because it has that consumer product cycle to it. So chemistry was higher, but it was even higher year-over-year in Q3 as well.

是的。我認為你的第一部分是關於第三季的周期性或季節性。我們的電子化學業務總是有一點季節性，因為它有消費產品週期。因此，化學反應更高，但第三季的年比甚至更高。

So there was that normal seasonality. We kind of expect chemistry to kind of moderate a little bit in Q4 just because of seasonality. But as you -- as we just talked about, E&P is up and a lot of that is driven by E&P equipment. So those are the puts and takes of seasonality.

所以存在正常的季節性。由於季節性因素，我們預計第四季度化學反應會有所緩和。但正如我們剛才談到的，勘探與生產正在興起，其中很大一部分是由勘探與生產設備推動的。這些就是季節性的賣權和賣出選擇權。

With respect to 2025 WFE, I think your question was, does the election change anything? And certainly, there's a lot of smarter people that can have opinions on that. I would say this, specifically in terms of how the geopolitics will shake out, we have been in the opinion that, that's been a bipartisan agreement in terms of how the United States treats that. And so we don't expect any change from the particular semiconductor restrictions. So whatever that was going to be going forward, we don't expect that to change too much.

關於 2025 年 WFE，我想你的問題是，這次選舉會改變什麼嗎？當然，有很多更聰明的人可以對此發表意見。我想說的是，特別是在地緣政治將如何發展方面，我們一直認為，就美國如何對待這一問題而言，這是兩黨達成的協議。因此，我們預期特定的半導體限制不會有任何變化。因此，無論未來會發生什麼，我們預計不會發生太大變化。

Got it. And then on the debt side, what are you -- (inaudible) planning in terms of paydown through '25, I guess, in terms of leveraging the balance sheet?

知道了。然後在債務方面，我想，在利用資產負債表方面，您（聽不清楚）在 25 年之前的還款方面有何計劃？

Yeah. Well, we'll certainly be -- that's still our number one priority. We will be using excess free cash flow focused to delever. We'll certainly do other things such as repricing and whatnot, if it makes sense, if the market allows. So our focus for the next 12 to 18 months, as we've said before, is to really focus on delevering with any excess free cash flow.

是的。嗯，我們當然會——這仍然是我們的首要任務。我們將利用多餘的自由現金流專注於去槓桿化。如果市場允許的話，如果有意義的話，我們肯定會做其他事情，例如重新定價之類的。因此，正如我們之前所說，我們未來 12 到 18 個月的重點是真正專注於利用任何多餘的自由現金流進行去槓桿化。

How much that is, of course, will depend on the markets. As you can see, in 2024, with a very muted market for semiconductors and electronics and packaging, our two main markets, we were still able to prepay $426 million. And so there's a lot of leverage in our model. Certainly, if revenue were to go up significantly, a lot of that would flow through the -- the free cash flow. As Michelle said, this quarter, it was 16% of revenue, free cash flow.

當然，具體金額取決於市場。正如您所看到的，到 2024 年，在我們的兩個主要市場半導體、電子和封裝市場非常低迷的情況下，我們仍然能夠預付 4.26 億美元。因此，我們的模型有許多槓桿作用。當然，如果收入大幅成長，其中很大一部分將透過自由現金流流動。正如米歇爾所說，本季自由現金流佔收入的 16%。

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

克里斯·桑卡爾，TD·考恩。

I have two of them. John, one of the things you mentioned was you saw strength in semi business in DRAM, logic and foundry, not in NAND. I'm trying to figure out when do you expect to see NAND strength because some of your other component peers like Ichor said that they're beginning to see NAND strength for their business. I'm kind of curious, is there a lag effect? Have you begun to see anything? Or is it more of a 2025 event?

我有兩個。John，您提到的一件事是您看到了 DRAM、邏輯和代工領域半業務的優勢，而不是 NAND 領域。我試圖弄清楚您預計什麼時候會看到 NAND 的優勢，因為 Ichor 等其他一些組件同行表示，他們開始看到 NAND 業務的優勢。我很好奇，有滯後效應嗎？你開始看到什麼了嗎？或者這更像是 2025 年的事件？

Yeah. Thanks for the question, Krish. Certainly, we can't comment on what other peers are seeing. We can comment on what we're seeing. And I think what we're saying is it still feels very muted. Some customers have talked about upgrades and things like that. And upgrades come in a couple of different flavors, right?

是的。謝謝你的提問，克里什。當然，我們無法評論其他同行所看到的情況。我們可以對所看到的內容發表評論。我認為我們所說的是它仍然感覺非常沉默。一些客戶談論了升級之類的事情。升級有幾種不同的風格，對嗎？

To upgrade significant increases in layer count, you really need new RF power. But you can also upgrade with smaller changes, and that might not require a new RF deck, it might just require chemistry or cryo. So I think that all depends on what the customers see and what their customers want them to do. But right now, we see NAND is still pretty muted. So that's all we can say about what we see.

為了顯著增加層數，您確實需要新的射頻功率。但您也可以透過較小的變更進行升級，這可能不需要新的射頻甲板，可能只需要化學或冷凍。所以我認為這一切都取決於客戶看到什麼以及客戶希望他們做什麼。但現在，我們看到 NAND 仍然相當低調。這就是我們對所看到的一切所能說的。

Got it. That's very helpful. And a quick follow-up, John. If I remember right, you said that the E&P strength was in flex PCB drilling? I hope I heard it right. Because the question was mainly -- I thought Flex PCB is mainly used for smartphone end markets, but it seems like that end market hasn't quite recovered.

知道了。這非常有幫助。約翰，快速跟進。如果我沒記錯的話，您說過 E&P 的優勢在於柔性 PCB 鑽孔？我希望我沒聽錯。因為問題主要是——我認為柔性PCB主要用於智慧型手機終端市場，但終端市場似乎還沒有完全恢復。

So I'm trying to figure out what drove that strength for you in the quarter on the E&P side? And then I just want to like to also say that welcome to the team, Ram. I hope to interact with you more in the future.

所以我想弄清楚是什麼推動了您在本季勘探與生產方面的實力？然後我也想說歡迎加入我們的團隊，拉姆。希望以後能和大家有更多的互動。

Thank you, Krish. Look forward to more conversations.

謝謝你，克里什。期待更多對話。

Yeah. To answer your question, Krish, there are actually two things that are driving E&P up quarter-on-quarter. It is both the Flex equipment. So for smartphones, you're right there. So we did see an increase there in bookings, and that's going to turn into revenue in the next quarter or so. And in addition to that, we saw an increase in bookings for rigid PCB equipment for chemistry related to AI. So it's actually both that are happening.

是的。克里什，為了回答你的問題，實際上有兩件事正在推動勘探與生產季度環比增長。兩者都是Flex設備。所以對於智慧型手機來說，你就在那裡。因此，我們確實看到預訂量增加，這將在下個季度左右轉化為收入。除此之外，我們還看到用於人工智慧相關化學的剛性 PCB 設備的預訂量增加。所以實際上這兩種情況都在發生。

Joseph Moore of Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的約瑟夫·摩爾。

This is Shane on behalf of Joe. My first question is, how should we think about the idiosyncratic gross margin tailwinds and headwinds that you're envisioning for 2025?

這是肖恩代表喬。我的第一個問題是，我們應該如何看待您所設想的 2025 年毛利率的特殊順風和逆風？

Yeah. Gross margins in 2025 is certainly -- you can see that our gross margins are slightly different by division. Chemistry and the Atotech acquisition has really helped keep the profitability up even during a down cycle. So we're really happy about that, and it's improved, right? Under MKS, the last two years, the gross margin for particular volume of business at Atotech has improved.

是的。2025 年的毛利率肯定是——你可以看到我們的毛利率按部門略有不同。Chemistry 和 Atotech 的收購確實有助於即使在經濟下行週期也能保持獲利能力。所以我們對此感到非常高興，並且它有所改善，對嗎？在 MKS 的領導下，過去兩年，安美特特定業務量的毛利率有所提高。

That's also the case with PSD, is the case with VSD. Volume will improve all of them. And so if 2025 volume is higher, we should expect that 50% gross margin flow-through that we talked about in our model. And then, of course, the inflationary costs have come down over this year.

PSD也是如此，VSD也是如此。音量將改善所有這些。因此，如果 2025 年的銷量更高，我們應該預期我們在模型中討論的毛利率將達到 50%。當然，今年通膨成本有所下降。

So the PPV is pretty much balanced now. It's not back to where it used to be, where we can always count on some kind of 1% or 2% lower PPV year-on-year. But some parts of the supply chain and some parts of the materials are getting to that point as well. So right now, it's still in balance. And so that could be a tailwind. Of course, if inflation goes up, it's a headwind. So those are the things we think about in terms of gross margin drivers going forward.

所以現在PPV已經基本平衡了。它並沒有回到過去的狀態，我們總是可以指望 PPV 年比下降 1% 或 2%。但供應鏈的某些部分和材料的某些部分也正在達到這一點。所以目前來看，還是處於平衡狀態。因此這可能是一種順風。當然，如果通膨上升，那就是逆風。這些是我們在未來毛利率驅動因素方面考慮的事情。

Got it. My follow-up is, so when NAND CapEx eventually returns, how is MKSI positioned that customer tools sort of relative to the last up cycle in 2023 through 2022?

知道了。我的後續問題是，當 NAND 資本支出最終回歸時，MKSI 相對於 2023 年至 2022 年的最後一個上升週期如何定位客戶工具？

Yeah. We believe we still have the leadership position for certainly some of the most -- the most critical etch in VNAND with our RF power. And so we're pretty confident that the next up cycle that we will enjoy that with our RF power business.

是的。我們相信，憑藉我們的 RF 能力，我們在 VNAND 中一些最關鍵的蝕刻領域仍然處於領先地位。因此，我們非常有信心，我們的射頻功率業務將在下一個上升週期中受益。

I think you're probably talking about new kinds of power such as Pulse DC. We're working on that as well as others, and that will remain to be seen as to when that gets put into production, but certainly not probably in the next cycle.

我認為您可能正在談論新型電源，例如脈衝直流電。我們正在研究這個以及其他方面的工作，何時投入生產還有待觀察，但肯定不會在下一個週期中投入生產。

Joe Quatrochi, Wells Fargo.

喬·夸特羅奇，富國銀行。

I know you guys announced kind of a new semiconductor factory you're building in Malaysia. I was wondering if you could talk about, one, maybe the CapEx kind of requirements there over the next two quarters as we think about excess free cash flow for debt paydown? And then also, how do we think about the mix in production? I think a lot of your semi-related production capacity is located in China.

我知道你們宣佈在馬來西亞建造一家新的半導體工廠。我想知道您是否可以談談，一，也許是未來兩個季度的資本支出要求，因為我們考慮用於償還債務的超額自由現金流？然後，我們如何考慮生產中的組合？我認為你們很多半相關的產能都位於中國。

Yeah, Joe, that's a great question. So we announced the groundbreaking in Malaysia for another factory targeted towards our semiconductor and maybe even photonics types of products. And that's expansion for capacity that we think we will need. It's certainly putting less risk in our footprint, our manufacturing footprint, and that's certainly something our customers want to see. So those are the two reasons why we're doing that.

是的，喬，這是一個很好的問題。因此，我們宣佈在馬來西亞奠基另一家工廠，專門生產我們的半導體甚至光子類型的產品。這就是我們認為需要的產能擴張。這無疑降低了我們的足跡、製造足跡的風險，這當然是我們的客戶希望看到的。這就是我們這樣做的兩個原因。

In terms of CapEx, I think the way I think about it, Joe, is we've always been in that 3% to 5% level in terms of CapEx spend. So very, very low. Maybe the next year or two, it might edge up towards the 5% because we've got a couple of factories being built for good reasons. But this past year, I think we'll be in that 3% range. And then it could oscillate between 3% to 5%, but still quite a low CapEx intensity model that we have.

就資本支出而言，喬，我認為我的想法是，就資本支出而言，我們一直處於 3% 到 5% 的水平。所以非常非常低。也許未來一兩年，它可能會上升到 5%，因為我們有幾個工廠正在建設中，這是有充分理由的。但去年，我認為我們將處於 3% 的範圍內。然後它可能會在 3% 到 5% 之間波動，但我們的資本支出強度模型仍然相當低。

That's helpful. And then I guess, I know you guys obviously guided December, but how do we think about -- is there anything to call out in terms of seasonality into the March quarter?

這很有幫助。然後我想，我知道你們顯然指導了 12 月，但我們如何思考——在 3 月季度的季節性方面有什麼需要注意的嗎？

The March quarter usually is a little lower from a consumer product cycle standpoint. That's true. So that's typically what we would see, in part, of our MSD Atotech business, just like we saw an uptick in Q3. So that's the expectation. Things can change. Certainly, a new product release of some sort could change that.

從消費性產品週期的角度來看，三月的季度通常會稍低。這是真的。因此，這通常是我們默沙東安美特業務的部分情況，就像我們在第三季度看到的成長一樣。這就是期望。事情可能會改變。當然，某種新產品的發布可能會改變這一點。

I think the only kind of difference is equipment. Equipment is not necessarily a consumer products cycle, right? It's just -- it's an investment cycle and capacity cycle. And so that's where we see kind of a Q4 uptick in E&P because of not just Flex equipment, but also rigid equipment. And it remains to be seen what that will be in Q1.

我認為唯一的區別是設備。設備不一定是消費性產品的周期，對吧？這只是——這是一個投資週期和產能週期。因此，我們看到勘探與生產第四季有所上升，不僅因為柔性設備，還因為剛性設備。第一季會發生什麼事還有待觀察。

(Operator Instructions) Melissa Weathers, DB.

（操作員說明）Melissa Weathers，DB。

Look forward to working with you, Ram. I think I heard in your preamble that you talked about a back-end win for HBM. Can you give us any more color on what that is, how big it can be? And if you expect any other similar wins?

期待與您合作，拉姆。我想我在您的序言中聽說您談到了 HBM 的後端勝利。你能給我們更多關於它是什麼、它有多大的資訊嗎？您是否期望其他類似的勝利？

Yeah. Thanks, Melissa. The HBM win we talked about was lasers. And so lasers can be used -- are used to do cutting of chips. That's not news. But HBM type of die -- you're putting dies on top of each other. And so precision and the fineness of the edges and all that are giving laser makers, us, opportunities because the more precise you can make those cuts, the better yield you're going to have on those kinds of chips. So -- and we called out one particular customer, and it's pretty significant, but MKS is pretty big. So -- but for the laser group, it's significant. And it's not just one customer. So it's multiple customers doing this.

是的。謝謝，梅麗莎。我們談到的 HBM 勝利是雷射。因此可以使用雷射來切割晶片。這不是什麼新聞。但是 HBM 類型的骰子——您將骰子放在彼此的頂部。因此，邊緣的精度和精細度以及所有這些都為雷射製造商（我們）提供了機會，因為切割越精確，此類晶片的產量就越高。因此，我們召集了一位特定客戶，這非常重要，但 MKS 規模相當大。所以，但對雷射團隊來說，這意義重大。而且這不僅僅是一位客戶。所以這是多個客戶在做的事。

Got it. And then on the like advanced logic side, you guys said you saw strength in the quarter there. It's pretty clear that the main player there is seeing strength. But the two kind of second-tier foundries are struggling. So any way that we should think about if that market recedes to just one major player, how would that impact MKS? And how are you derisking for that dynamic?

知道了。然後在高級邏輯方面，你們說你們看到了該季度的實力。很明顯，這裡的主要玩家看到了實力。但這兩家二線代工廠卻處境艱困。因此，我們應該考慮一下，如果該市場只剩下一個主要參與者，這會對 MKS 產生怎樣的影響？您如何消除這種動態的風險？

Yeah. I think we're not too worried about that, Melissa. I think the reason is because we've been in a consolidating industry for 30 years. And so you could argue that there were 30 chip companies, now there are five. There were dozens of OEMs, now there are five.

是的。我想我們並不太擔心這一點，梅麗莎。我認為原因是我們已經在一個整合產業中待了 30 年了。所以你可能會說以前有 30 家晶片公司，現在有 5 家。原始設備製造商有幾十家，現在有五家。

So -- and certainly, we want to provide the best value to our customers. But we also want to get paid for the fair value that we bring. And as you can see, our gross margins are in the same ZIP code, if you will, as our customers and our customers' customers.

因此，當然，我們希望為客戶提供最佳價值。但我們也希望因我們帶來的公允價值而獲得報酬。正如您所看到的，如果您願意的話，我們的毛利率與我們的客戶和我們客戶的客戶處於相同的郵遞區號。

And I think that's just a corroboration of the value of technology that we bring. And I think all companies that bring this kind of technology -- you need those kinds of gross margins so you can invest in the next generation. So we've been able to demonstrate that over 50 years. And so, yes, there could be consolidation and whatnot throughout the industry, but we feel that the value of our portfolio is really going to be what determines the gross margin.

我認為這只是對我們帶來的技術價值的證實。我認為所有帶來這種技術的公司——你都需要這樣的毛利率，這樣你就可以投資下一代。所以我們已經能夠在 50 多年裡證明這一點。因此，是的，整個行業可能會出現整合之類的情況，但我們認為我們投資組合的價值確實將決定毛利率。

Steve Barger, KBC.

史蒂夫·巴格，KBC。

John, when you think about the initiatives around photonics or litho or some of the other growth areas you're targeting, can you talk about how this affects the market opportunity for you, whether it's growth rates or how this affects the TAM longer term?

John，當您考慮圍繞光子學或光刻或您瞄準的其他一些成長領域的舉措時，您能否談談這對您的市場機會有何影響，無論是成長率還是對 TAM 的長期影響？

Yeah. I think it's really back to the playbook we've demonstrated over the last 10-15 years, Steve. There's only so many ways you can outgrow WFE, and we've demonstrated that we could do that by 200 basis points. And more recently, we've had headwinds, China, right?

是的。我認為這實際上又回到了我們在過去 10-15 年中展示的劇本，史蒂夫。能夠超越 WFE 的方法只有這麼多，我們已經證明我們可以做到 200 個基點。最近，我們遇到了阻力，中國，對吧？

A lot of that business got removed. And so we have to make it up somewhere else. And so I think lithography, metrology, inspection, that was a great area where, as a company, we were less indexed to that than then our contribution to the vacuum part of WFE.

很多這樣的業務都被刪除了。所以我們必須在其他地方彌補。因此，我認為光刻、計量、檢查是一個很棒的領域，作為一家公司，我們對這些領域的關注度比我們對 WFE 真空部分的貢獻要少。

So that's where we made the investment, and we've demonstrated that we can continue to outgrow even that subsegment of WFE, and we have been over the last couple of years. So that's just an example of the plan and the playbook of outgrowing WFE. We have to move to where the opportunities are. And I think that is also really the strength -- leveraging the strength of having a broad portfolio. You can move to those areas much faster because you're already in them.

這就是我們進行投資的地方，我們已經證明，我們甚至可以繼續超越 WFE 的這一細分市場，過去幾年我們一直在這樣做。這只是超越 WFE 的計劃和劇本的一個例子。我們必須搬到有機會的地方。我認為這也是真正的優勢——利用廣泛的產品組合的優勢。您可以更快地移動到這些區域，因為您已經在其中了。

I'm showing no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn it back to Paretosh Misra, Vice President of Investor Relations, for closing remarks.

我目前沒有提出任何進一步的問題。現在我想請投資人關係副總裁 Paretosh Misra 致閉幕詞。

Thank you all for joining us today and for your interest in MKS. Operator, you may close the call, please.

感謝大家今天加入我們以及對 MKS 的興趣。接線員，請掛斷電話。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的會議。這確實結束了該程式。您現在可以斷開連線。