Medpace Holdings Inc (MEDP) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the Medpace second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this call is being recorded.

女士們、先生們，大家好，歡迎參加 Medpace 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，此通話正在被錄音。

I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference, Lauren Morris, Medpace's director of investor relations. You may begin.

現在，我想介紹今天會議的主持人，Medpace 的投資者關係總監 Lauren Morris。你可以開始了。

Good morning, and thank you for joining Medpace's second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Also on the call today is our CEO, August Troendle; our President, Jesse Geiger; and our CFO, Kevin Brady.

早安，感謝您參加 Medpace 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。參加今天電話會議的還有我們的執行長 August Troendle、總裁 Jesse Geiger 和財務長 Kevin Brady。

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that our remarks and responses to your questions during this teleconference may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements involve inherent assumptions with known and unknown risks and uncertainties as well as other important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations. These factors are discussed in our Form 10-K and other filings with the SEC.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，我們在本次電話會議中的評論和對您的問題的回答可能包括 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些聲明涉及固有假設，具有已知和未知的風險和不確定性以及可能導致實際結果與我們當前預期有重大差異的其他重要因素。這些因素在我們的 10-K 表格和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中進行了討論。

Please note that we assume no obligation to update forward-looking statements even if estimates change. Accordingly, you should not rely on any of today's forward-looking statements as representing our views as of any date after today. During this call, we will also be referring to certain non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP measures are not superior to or a replacement for the comparable GAAP measures, but we believe these measures help investors gain a more complete understanding of results.

請注意，即使估計發生變化，我們也不承擔更新前瞻性聲明的義務。因此，您不應依賴今天的任何前瞻性陳述來代表我們在今天之後的任何日期的觀點。在本次電話會議中，我們也會參考某些非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非公認會計準則指標並不優於或取代可比較的公認會計準則指標，但我們相信這些指標有助於投資者更全面地了解結果。

A reconciliation of such non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is available in the earnings press release and earnings call presentation slides provided in connection with today's call. The slides are available in the Investor Relations section of our website at investor.medpace.com.

在今天的電話會議上提供的收益新聞稿和收益電話會議簡報幻燈片中，可以找到此類非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對帳表。您可以在我們網站 investor.medpace.com 的投資者關係部分找到這些投影片。

With that, I would now like to turn the call over to August Troendle.

說完這些，我現在想把電話轉給 August Troendle。

Good day. RFP flow in Q2 continued to be strong, and we saw an increase in rate of decisions. Total pending RFP dollars were down in the quarter, and our award notifications were strong. Cancellations were down across the pipeline and awards recognized in the backlog were the highest in the past five quarters with a book-to-bill of 1.03 in the second quarter of 2025. We continue to see a strong potential for book-to-bills returning to above 1.15 in Q3.

再會。第二季度的 RFP 流量持續強勁，我們看到決策率有所提高。本季待定的 RFP 總金額有所下降，但我們的授予通知力道很大。整個管道的取消量都在下降，積壓訂單中確認的獎勵是過去五個季度中最高的，2025 年第二季的訂單出貨比為 1.03。我們仍然認為訂單出貨比在第三季有很大潛力回到 1.15 以上。

Although funding challenges remain acute for many of our clients, the large majority of those clients with ongoing studies were able to obtain sufficient funding to keep the trials running. The funding environment has been stable to improved. Due to several factors, including better funding than anticipated, fewer cancellations, accelerated client decisions, rapid project start-up, shifting mix away from oncology and towards faster burning therapeutic areas, and significantly higher investigator costs, we now anticipate accelerating revenue in the second half of the year. As a result, our revenue guidance has been raised by $280 million at the midpoint.

儘管我們的許多客戶仍然面臨嚴峻的資金挑戰，但大多數正在進行研究的客戶都能夠獲得足夠的資金來維持試驗的進行。融資環境趨於穩定並不斷改善。由於多種因素，包括資金比預期更好、取消的更少、客戶決策加快、項目啟動迅速、組合從腫瘤學轉向更快燃燒的治療領域，以及研究人員成本顯著提高，我們現在預計下半年收入將加速增長。因此，我們的營收預期中位數已上調 2.8 億美元。

Jesse will now add some additional detail.

傑西現在將添加一些額外的細節。

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Revenue for the second-quarter of 2025 was $603.3 million, which represents a year-over-year increase of 14.2%. Net new business awards entering backlog in the second quarter increased 12.6% from the prior year to $620.5 million, resulting in a 1.03 net book-to-bill. Ending backlog as of June 30, 2025, was approximately $2.9 billion, a decrease of 1.8% from the prior year.

謝謝。大家早安。2025 年第二季營收為 6.033 億美元，年增 14.2%。第二季進入積壓狀態的淨新業務獎勵較上年增加 12.6%，達到 6.205 億美元，淨訂單出貨比為 1.03。截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日的期末積壓訂單約為 29 億美元，比前一年減少 1.8%。

We project that approximately $1.75 billion of backlog will convert to revenue in the next 12 months. And backlog conversion in the second quarter was 21.2% of beginning backlog.

我們預計，未來 12 個月內約有 17.5 億美元的積壓訂單將轉化為收入。第二季的積壓訂單轉換率為期初積壓訂單的 21.2%。

Now with that, I'll turn the call over to Kevin to review our financial performance in more detail, as well as our guidance expectations for the balance of 2025. Kevin?

現在，我將把電話交給凱文，讓他更詳細地回顧我們的財務業績，以及我們對 2025 年餘額的指導預期。凱文？

Thank you, Jesse. As Jesse mentioned, revenue was $603.3 million in the second-quarter of 2025. This represented a year-over-year increase of 14.2% on a reported basis, and 13.8% on a constant currency basis. Revenue for the six months ended June 30, 2025, was $1.16 billion and increased 11.8%.

謝謝你，傑西。正如傑西所提到的，2025 年第二季的收入為 6.033 億美元。以報告基礎計算，年增 14.2%，以固定匯率計算，年增 13.8%。截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日的六個月的收入為 11.6 億美元，成長 11.8%。

Revenue for the quarter was favorably impacted by higher reimbursable activity, particularly at investigator sites, driven by studies progressing ahead of projected schedules, and the therapeutic mix shift to faster burning studies in areas like metabolic, which have a higher concentration of reimbursable costs.

本季收入受到可報銷活動增加的正面影響，特別是在研究地點，這得益於研究進展超出預期，以及治療組合轉向代謝等領域的更快燃燒研究，這些領域的可報銷成本集中度更高。

EBITDA of $130.5 million increased to 16.2% compared to $112.3 million in the second quarter of 2024. On a constant currency basis, second quarter EBITDA increased 18.5%. Year-to-date EBITDA was $249.1 million, and increased 9.3% from the comparable prior year period. EBITDA margin for the second quarter was 21.6% compared to 21.3% in the prior year period.

EBITDA 為 1.305 億美元，較 2024 年第二季的 1.123 億美元成長 16.2%。以固定匯率計算，第二季 EBITDA 成長 18.5%。年初至今的 EBITDA 為 2.491 億美元，較去年同期成長 9.3%。第二季的 EBITDA 利潤率為 21.6%，而去年同期為 21.3%。

Year-to-date EBITDA margin was 21.4% compared to 21.9% in the prior year period. EBITDA margin in the quarter benefited from direct service activities and productivity, offset by higher reimbursable costs and foreign exchange losses behind the weaker US dollar.

年初至今的 EBITDA 利潤率為 21.4%，而去年同期為 21.9%。本季的 EBITDA 利潤率受益於直接服務活動和生產力，但被更高的可報銷成本和美元疲軟導致的外匯損失所抵消。

In the second quarter of 2025, net income of $90.3 million increased 2.2% compared to net income of $88.4 million in the prior-year period. Net income growth behind EBITDA growth was primarily driven by a higher effective tax rate in the quarter and lower interest income.

2025 年第二季淨收入為 9,030 萬美元，較去年同期的淨收入 8,840 萬美元成長 2.2%。EBITDA 成長背後的淨收入成長主要受本季有效稅率上升和利息收入下降的推動。

Net income per diluted share for the quarter was $3.10 compared to $2.75 in the prior year period. Regarding customer concentration, our top 5 and top 10 customers represent roughly 21% and 31%, respectively, of our year-to-date revenue. In the second quarter, we generated $148.5 million in cash flow from operating activities, and our net days sales outstanding was negative 65 days.

本季每股攤薄淨收益為 3.10 美元，去年同期為 2.75 美元。就客戶集中度而言，我們的前 5 名和前 10 名客戶分別占我們年初至今收入的約 21% 和 31%。第二季度，我們從經營活動產生了1.485億美元的現金流，淨應收帳款週轉天數為負65天。

During the second quarter, we repurchased approximately 1.75 million shares or $518.5 million. Year-to-date, we repurchased 2.9 million shares, or $908.4 million. As of June 30, 2025, we had $826.3 million remaining under our share repurchase authorization program.

第二季度，我們回購了約 175 萬股，價值 5.185 億美元。年初至今，我們回購了 290 萬股，價值 9.084 億美元。截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日，我們的股票回購授權計畫剩餘金額為 8.263 億美元。

Moving now to our updated guidance for 2025. Full-year 2025 total revenue is now expected in the range of $2.42 billion to $2.52 billion, representing growth of 14.7% to 19.5% over 2024 total revenue of $2.11 billion. Our 2025 EBITDA is now expected in the range of $515 million to $545 million, representing growth of 7.3% to 13.5% compared to EBITDA of $480.2 million in 2024.

現在轉向我們針對 2025 年的最新指導。目前預計 2025 年全年總收入將在 24.2 億美元至 25.2 億美元之間，比 2024 年 21.1 億美元的總收入增長 14.7% 至 19.5%。我們目前預計 2025 年 EBITDA 將在 5.15 億美元至 5.45 億美元之間，與 2024 年 EBITDA 4.802 億美元相比成長 7.3% 至 13.5%。

The increase in our guidance reflects the impact of lower second-quarter backlog cancellations, improved funding on several challenged programs, which we anticipate will continue through the remainder of the year, and a shift in business towards faster burning therapeutic areas with a higher concentration of reimbursable costs.

我們指引的增加反映了第二季度積壓訂單取消量減少、幾個面臨挑戰的項目的資金增加（我們預計這些資金將在今年剩餘時間內持續增加）以及業務轉向更快增長的治療領域和更高集中度的可報銷成本的影響。

We now expect reimbursable costs as a percentage of revenue to increase by 200 to 300 basis points over the balance of the year. We forecast 2025 net income in the range of $405 million to $428 million. This increased guidance assumes a full-year 2025 effective tax rate of 18.5% to 19%. Interest income of $11.6 million and 29.4 million diluted weighted average shares outstanding for 2025.

我們現在預計，可償還成本佔收入的百分比將比今年同期增加 200 至 300 個基點。我們預測 2025 年淨收入將在 4.05 億美元至 4.28 億美元之間。此上調後的指引假設 2025 年全年有效稅率為 18.5% 至 19%。2025 年利息收入為 1,160 萬美元，稀釋加權平均流通股數為 2,940 萬股。

There are no additional share repurchases in our guidance. Earnings per diluted share is now expected to be in the range of $13.76 to $14.53. Guidance is based on foreign exchange rates as of June 30, 2025.

我們的指導中沒有額外的股票回購。目前預計每股攤薄收益在13.76美元至14.53美元之間。此指引是根據截至2025年6月30日的外匯匯率。

With that, I will turn the call back over to the operator, so we can take your questions.

說完這些，我會將電話轉回給接線生，以便我們回答您的問題。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。（操作員指示）

Ann Hynes, Mizuho.

安‧海因斯 (Ann Hynes)，瑞穗。

Great, thank you so much. Could you just let us know what your booking expectations are for the second half? And the reason being is that your burn rate stepped up in 2Q and obviously, your guidance implies a step up in 3Q and 4Q. And I'm just trying to figure out what that means for 2026 revenue growth. I know you want to -- probably want to give guidance to 2026. But do you expect an acceleration in bookings for the second half to support growth in 2026? Thanks.

太好了，非常感謝。您能否告訴我們您對下半年的預訂期望是什麼？原因在於您的燒錢率在第二季度有所上升，顯然，您的指導意味著第三季和第四季也會有所上升。我只是想弄清楚這對 2026 年的收入成長意味著什麼。我知道你想——可能想為 2026 年提供指導。但是，您是否預計下半年預訂量會加速成長以支持 2026 年的成長？謝謝。

Yeah, as I said in my prepared comments, we do believe that there's a reasonable chance of getting book-to-bills back over 1.15, which implies a considerable increase in bookings as our revenue is also growing. So yes, we do expect bookings to increase.

是的，正如我在準備好的評論中所說的那樣，我們確實相信訂單出貨比有相當大的機會回到 1.15 以上，這意味著隨著我們的收入也在增長，訂單量也會大幅增加。是的，我們確實預計預訂量會增加。

Now again, that's always dependent upon cancellations which were very well-behaved in this quarter. But last quarter they were terribly high. So if things continue in the trend we saw in this quarter, then yes we expect bookings to remain strong through the remainder of the year.

現在，這始終取決於本季表現良好的取消情況。但上個季度，這一數字非常高。因此，如果本季的趨勢持續下去，那麼我們預計今年剩餘時間的預訂量將保持強勁。

And can you provide any more information on cancellations like what was the rate this quarter versus what had been trending the past couple of quarters?

您能否提供更多有關取消情況的信息，例如本季度的取消率與過去幾個季度的趨勢相比如何？

Yeah, we don't disclose the actual rate, but it was down across the entire portfolio. So both sort of that non-backlog awards before they get to backlog was very low, and our backlog cancellations that have been at or above the upper range of what we would consider normal, they're actually toward the lower end of expectations or usual history in this past quarter -- in Q2.

是的，我們沒有透露實際利率，但整個投資組合的利率都在下降。因此，在進入積壓訂單之前，非積壓訂單獎勵的數量非常低，而積壓訂單取消的數量一直處於或高於我們認為正常的上限，實際上，在過去的一個季度（第二季度），它們處於預期或正常歷史的下限。

So they were actually very well-behaved and that of course made us exceed what we thought we were going to do in terms of both bookings and overall performance in terms of the revenue and EBITDA.

所以他們實際上表現得非常好，這當然使我們在預訂量和收入及 EBITDA 方面的整體表現方面超出了我們的預期。

Perfect. Thank you so much.

完美的。太感謝了。

David Windley, Jefferies.

傑富瑞的戴維溫德利 (David Windley)。

Hi, thanks for taking the questions. I've got a few. I'll try to go through quickly.

你好，謝謝你回答這個問題。我有幾個。我會盡量快速瀏覽一遍。

On the burn rate, I'm not quick enough on the calculator. I heard -- Kevin, you say that you do expect pass-throughs to be 200 to 300 basis points higher, over the balance of the year and that I think contributes in part to the higher burn rate. I was hoping you could maybe walk me to water a little bit on how much of the increased guide is pass-through versus direct revenue.

就燒錢速度而言，我用計算機計算得不夠快。我聽說——凱文，你說你確實預計今年餘下的資金轉嫁率將高出 200 到 300 個基點，我認為這在一定程度上導致了更高的燒錢率。我希望您能稍微告訴我一下，增加的指南中有多少是轉嫁收入，有多少是直接收入。

Yeah Dave, I mean, obviously a large portion of the increase is going to be on the accelerated reimbursable cost activity, right. But we did increase also the EBITDA guide as well, so we're also seeing some pull-through on this just greater productivity on the existing staff and quite frankly some programs that are progressing ahead of what we had projected in our schedules. It's a combination of both, but the revenue in particular is certainly heavily influenced by the 200 to 300 basis points increase in expectations on the pass-throughs.

是的，戴夫，我的意思是，顯然增加的很大一部分將用於加速可報銷成本活動，對吧。但我們也確實提高了 EBITDA 指南，因此我們也看到現有員工的生產力有所提高，坦白說，一些專案的進展超出了我們計劃中的預期。這是兩者的結合，但收入尤其受到傳遞預期增加 200 至 300 個基點的嚴重影響。

Okay, so last night we -- on this topic, we looked at kind of a pattern in 2023 where you also had an increase in revenue and a good chunk of that coming from pass-throughs, sounds like maybe not quite that extreme but similar and to get the EBITDA increase that you just mentioned on effectively the direct revenue portion, which sounds like the minority, you're having to get pretty high incremental margin, as you just alluded.

好的，昨晚我們 - 關於這個主題，我們研究了 2023 年的一種模式，您的收入也有所增加，其中很大一部分來自轉增收入，聽起來可能不是那麼極端，但很類似，為了獲得您剛才提到的直接收入部分的 EBITDA 增長，這聽起來像是少數，您必須獲得相當高的增量利潤率，正如您剛才提到的。

Management has been talking for the last, I don't know, year at least that staff productivity has been increasing, that you were at levels that were above historical records and probably not much upside room there. So I'd ask you to elaborate a little bit on how you're able to squeeze additional productivity out and then to support the revenue growth and your bookings expectations, I would guess that you're expecting to kind of take the shackles off hiring a little bit and accelerate the hiring, and how should we expect that to impact margin over the next couple of quarters. Thanks.

管理層至少在過去一年裡一直在說，員工生產力一直在提高，處於高於歷史記錄的水平，而且可能沒有太大的上升空間。因此，我想請您詳細說明您如何能夠擠出額外的生產力，然後支持收入增長和預訂預期，我猜您希望稍微放鬆一下招聘的束縛，加快招聘速度，我們應該如何預期這將對未來幾個季度的利潤率產生影響。謝謝。

Yeah, Dave, you're right. I mean I didn't expect productivity to continue from what we saw in 2024, certainly we've reduced our hiring expectations a little bit coming into the year, but we're also seeing improved attrition rates again, furthering in the past couple of quarters. And so all of that is contributing to -- I still expect some headwinds on a net basis in 2025, relative to where we are in 2024, but you're right, certainly improved versus where we were coming into the year.

是的，戴夫，你是對的。我的意思是，我並不認為生產力會延續 2024 年的水平，當然，我們在進入今年時已經稍微降低了招聘預期，但我們也看到員工流失率再次改善，並且在過去幾個季度有所上升。因此，所有這些都導致了——相對於 2024 年的水平，我仍然預計 2025 年的淨增長會面臨一些阻力，但您說得對，與今年年初相比，情況肯定有所改善。

And then last question for me quickly is, August, your comments around funding are interesting to me, certainly, our tracker’s not the Gospel certainly, but we have seen some predictiveness out of it and funding year-to-date's pretty bad, really. June was much better, but we're down over 40% year-to-date.

然後我要問的最後一個問題是，奧古斯特，你關於資金的評論對我來說很有趣，當然，我們的追蹤器肯定不是福音，但我們已經看到了一些預測性，而且今年迄今為止的資金情況確實相當糟糕。六月的情況好多了，但今年迄今已下降了 40% 以上。

So how do you get comfortable? I mean, I know you have a lot of visibility into the awards that you have in hand that aren't even in backlog yet. But how do you get comfort that the weak funding through the first six months of this year is not essentially foreshadowing another downturn in demand activity for you as it did in '23 ahead of '24?

那麼怎樣才能感到舒服呢？我的意思是，我知道你對手中尚未積壓的獎項有很清晰的了解。但是，您如何確信，今年前六個月的資金疲軟並不預示著需求活動將再次出現下滑，就像 2023 年和 2024 年的情況一樣？

Well, I guess I don't get myself comfortable with that. I mean, I thought we probably hit a bottom in Q4, but then cancellation -- and look, a big part of all of our difficulty in the last year has been cancellations, not new projects and baseline level of business, but certainly the last nine months. So it's really been just really heavy cancellations. And if they get adequate funding, I don't know what subset that is of the total pool of funding you're talking about, but we get comfortable with that and we can make our numbers.

嗯，我想我對此不太舒服。我的意思是，我認為我們可能在第四季度觸底，但隨後卻取消了——你看，去年我們遇到的所有困難很大一部分都是取消，不是新項目和基線業務水平，而是過去九個月的情況。所以取消的情況確實非常嚴重。如果他們獲得足夠的資金，我不知道你所說的資金總額佔多少，但我們對此感到滿意，並且可以實現我們的目標。

But, could things pull back again and really impact 2026? Sure, that's quite possible. I have no idea. I do know that we have good pipeline of things awarded but not yet reaching backlog that should support good bookings through the remainder of this year, again, as long as cancellations don't rear their head excessively. And that should at least get us started in 2026, but is it possible there's a pullback in the future and we run into another very weak booking quarters? I don't know.

但是，情況會再次回落並真正影響 2026 年嗎？當然，這是很有可能的。我不知道。我確實知道，我們有很多已經授予但尚未積壓的項目，只要取消的情況不過多，這些項目應該可以支持今年剩餘時間的良好預訂。這至少應該能讓我們在 2026 年開始，但未來是否可能出現回調，讓我們再次遇到非常疲軟的預訂季度？我不知道。

Okay. Appreciate the answers. Thank you.

好的。感謝您的回答。謝謝。

Jailendra Singh, Truist Securities.

Jailendra Singh，Truist Securities。

Thank you. Good morning and congrats on a strong quarter. I actually want to follow up on the last part of David's question. I mean it seems like macro environment and business pipeline when we caught up in early June was still choppy and pressured.

謝謝。早安，恭喜本季業績強勁。我實際上想跟進大衛問題的最後一部分。我的意思是，當我們在六月初趕上時，宏觀環境和業務管道似乎仍然不穩定且壓力很大。

Keeping that in mind, can you provide some color around how intra quarter trends were in 2Q, did majority of trends suddenly accelerate towards the end of Q2, essentially like latter part of June, and those trends have continued? Just give us some flavor how demand environment evolved in Q2 in particular.

考慮到這一點，您能否提供一些關於第二季度季度內趨勢的詳細信息，大多數趨勢是否在第二季度末突然加速，基本上就像 6 月下旬一樣，並且這些趨勢一直持續下去？請向我們介紹第二季需求環境的具體變化。

Yeah, I mean Q2 was again, it was really a continuation of Q1 in terms of the business environment was continuing to be pretty strong. In terms of RFPs, I said in Q1 they were strong. It was really cancellations that backed off quite a bit and that was sort of throughout the quarter.

是的，我的意思是，就商業環境持續保持強勁而言，第二季實際上是第一季的延續。就 RFP 而言，我在第一季說過它們表現強勁。取消的數量確實減少了不少，這種情況在整個季度都存在。

As I said, cancellations were actually low -- on the low side this quarter as opposed to being very high in the past, and certainly in the prior quarter. So it was across the quarter. I mean I didn't see any real trends of acceleration or deceleration in the quarter.

正如我所說，取消的數量實際上很低——本季度的取消數量偏低，而過去和上一季的取消數量則非常高。整個季度都是如此。我的意思是我沒有看到本季任何真正的加速或減速趨勢。

Okay, and my quick follow-up on these trials which were delayed or kind of put on hold coming back, new trials, business wins, are you seeing in any ways that the scope being different? Are you seeing like reduced scope of work or is it like a similar scope of work as you guys agreed on?

好的，我對這些被推遲或暫停的試驗進行了快速跟進，新的試驗，業務勝利，您是否看到範圍有任何不同？您是否看到工作範圍縮小了，還是像您同意的那樣，工作範圍相似？

And related to that, is there any meaningful variations around EBITDA margin, if the project comes at lower scope or reduced scope than previously planned?

與此相關的是，如果專案範圍比先前計劃的更低或縮小，EBITDA 利潤率是否會出現任何有意義的變化？

Yeah, sure. A number of projects were downscoped, and we see that -- you see that in any environment. I don't know if that was particularly prevalent, but you do see some downscoping and largely delays. I mean, slower start up, hold off on certain regions, kind of keep the study running but don't execute as fast as you could otherwise, so those are the kind of things that clients do to try to keep things alive while they don't have adequate funding.

是的，當然。許多項目的範圍被縮小了，我們看到了這一點——在任何環境中都可以看到這一點。我不知道這是否特別普遍，但你確實看到了一些縮小範圍和大量延遲。我的意思是，啟動速度較慢，暫停某些區域的研究，保持研究的運行但執行速度不如其他方式快，所以這些都是客戶在沒有足夠資金的情況下為保持研究的活力而做的事情。

Obviously, there -- you're even -- your profit's going to be impacted by that. Yeah, I mean the most profitable project for us is a project that runs the fastest, and if it's delayed, if it's downscoped, if it has some gating et cetera, that impairs our ability to execute and to make a profit on it.

顯然，你的利潤甚至會受到影響。是的，我的意思是，對我們來說最賺錢的項目是運行最快的項目，如果它被延遲，如果它被縮小範圍，如果它有一些限制等等，那麼這會削弱我們執行和獲利的能力。

Great, thanks for taking questions.

太好了，感謝您回答問題。

Max Smock, William Blair.

馬克斯史莫克、威廉布萊爾。

Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking our questions. Just wanted to follow up on some of the questions that have already been asked around book-to-bill on the back half of the year. And in particular your commentary about, getting back to 1.15. If you do that in the back half of the year, I think that implies bookings are up more than 40% year-over-year.

嘿，大家早安。感謝您回答我們的問題。只是想跟進今年下半年有關訂單出貨比的一些問題。特別是您提到的回到1.15。如果您在下半年實現這個目標，我認為這意味著預訂量比去年同期成長超過40%。

So just trying to get a sense for -- when you're talking about getting back to 1.15, do you need to see further improvement in funding or the demand environment to get there and if you don't think about or if you think about there not being improvement from today, what do bookings look like if the environment essentially remained unchanged from 2Q? Should we expect some more net awards in the back half of the year, roughly in line with the $620 million that you posted in the second quarter?

因此，只是想了解一下——當您談到回到 1.15 時，您是否需要看到資金或需求環境的進一步改善才能實現這一目標，如果您不考慮或者您認為從今天開始沒有改善，如果環境與第二季度基本保持不變，預訂情況會是什麼樣子？我們是否應該預期下半年會有更多的淨獎勵，大致與您在第二季公佈的 6.2 億美元持平？

Yeah,I don’t know how to answer that. Bookings in the -- Give me the first part of that question again with the bookings.

是的，我不知道該如何回答。預訂 - 請再次回答問題的第一部分以及預訂情況。

Yeah, August, so if I'm just thinking about your guide and your commentary about 1.15 book-to-bill in the back half of the year, I mean that implies net new bookings up over 40%. So just trying to get a sense for how much visibility you have into that and then what's embedded in the outlook to get back to 1.15. Do you need to see further macro improvement and if you don't, what does book-to-bill look like in the back half of the year?

是的，奧古斯特，所以如果我只考慮您的指南和您對下半年 1.15 訂單出貨比的評論，我的意思是這意味著淨新預訂量增長超過 40%。所以，我想了解您對此有多大的預見性，以及回到1.15的前景中蘊含著什麼。您是否需要看到宏觀經濟進一步改善？如果不需要，下半年的訂單出貨比會如何？

Sure, I think that macro improvement, it depends whether all of our cancellations have been related to funding, and I think that a good part of them were, yes. So we do have to see cancellations remain lower. I don't need to see new strong business environment with new opportunities, but we need to see things progress along and not be held up by funding or other factors.

當然，我認為宏觀改善取決於我們所有的取消是否都與資金有關，我認為其中很大一部分是的。因此，我們確實希望看到取消率保持在較低水準。我不需要看到新的強勁商業環境和新機遇，但我們需要看到事情向前發展，而不是受到資金或其他因素的阻礙。

But the current quarter, this Q2 was relatively low on cancellations. If that continues, I think we're going to be there. If it's in the mid-upper range of cancellations, we're getting right on the edge, I mean, I think prior to last quarter -- prior to the prior quarter, Q1, in which we had a lot of cancellations, particularly in the pre-backlog bucket, things that we expected to be converting in this next quarter -- in the next couple quarters, a lot of things dropped out and made it a lot closer on being able to get back to that 1.15.

但本季度，即第二季度，取消的數量相對較低。如果這種情況持續下去，我想我們就會到達那裡。如果取消量處於中上範圍，我們就處於邊緣，我的意思是，我認為在上個季度之前 - 在上一季度之前，第一季度，我們有很多取消，特別是在積壓之前的取消，我們預計在下個季度會轉換的事情 - 在接下來的幾個季度中，很多事情都消失了，讓我們更接近回到 1.15 的水平。

But I think it's still not anywhere near a slam dunk, but I think that if things continue the way they have in this past quarter, I think we'll be there, and how much more weakness and increased cancellations can occur, I don't know, but that answers your question.

但我認為這還遠遠沒有達到預期，但我認為，如果情況按照上個季度的方式繼續下去，我認為我們會達到預期，至於還會出現多少疲軟和取消的情況，我不知道，但這回答了你的問題。

Yeah, it does. I'm sorry for the long-winded question on my end. Maybe just one on competition and win rate and what you saw there in the second quarter and maybe how much of your results are more a reflection of you all taking share more so than a broader rebounding demand environment from small biotech.

是的，確實如此。抱歉，我問了這麼長的問題。也許只是一個關於競爭和勝率的問題，以及你在第二季度看到的情況，也許你的業績更多地反映了你們所有人的市場份額，而不是來自小型生物技術更廣泛的反彈需求環境。

Yeah, no. I was hoping not to have to talk about the win rate. It was not great in the quarter actually. It was more an issue of more decisions. As I said in the prior quarter, Q1, things were not being decided, things were being held up. A lot of funding issues and the go-ahead was not being given on new awards, they weren't making decisions. And so our pending RFP dollars increased quite a bit.

是的，不。我希望不必談論勝率。事實上本季的表現並不好。這更多的是一個需要做出更多決定的問題。正如我在第一季所說的那樣，事情還沒有決定，事情被擱置了。由於存在許多資金問題，而且新獎項的批准尚未得到批准，他們無法做出決定。因此，我們待處理的 RFP 金額增加了不少。

That came down in this past quarter because there was a lot of decisions. Our win rate on those decisions was not particularly high, but there was a lot of decisions, so actually awards were good. I mean we actually had a very good new award quarter, but on a lower-end win rate -- competitive win rate.

由於做出了許多決定，這一數字在過去一個季度有所下降。我們在這些決定上的勝率並不是特別高，但是有很多決定，所以實際上獎勵是不錯的。我的意思是，我們實際上有一個非常好的新獎項季度，但中獎率較低——有競爭力的中獎率。

But that's something that bounces around quarter-to-quarter and I never make anything out of a single quarter down, prior quarter it was fine, so we'll see.

但這是一個季度與季度之間波動的情況，我從來沒有從單一季度的下滑中看出什麼端倪，前一個季度的情況還不錯，所以我們拭目以待。

Got it. Thanks again for taking our questions.

知道了。再次感謝您回答我們的問題。

Michael Cherny, Leerink.

邁克爾·切爾尼（Michael Cherny），Leerink。

Good morning and thanks for taking the question. So maybe if I could just dive a little bit more on the trajectory and back half into '26, in particular on the step up in Pass-through business, I think -- Kevin, please correct me if I'm off here, but you said 200 to 300 basis points of increased Pass-through business baked into the numbers in the back half of the year.

早上好，感謝您回答這個問題。因此，如果我可以更深入地了解發展軌跡，並回顧一下 26 年下半年的情況，特別是直通業務的增長情況，我想 - 凱文，如果我說錯了，請糾正我，但你說的直通業務增長了 200 到 300 個基點，這已經包含在下半年的數字中了。

Is this something, especially given the results this quarter, that should be a new normal going forward, or is this just a matter of luck of the draw timing on the types of contracts that are currently hitting your backlog?

尤其是考慮到本季的業績，這是否應該成為未來的新常態，還是說這只是目前積壓的合約類型的運氣問題？

Yeah, I mean, certainly in the near term, it's going to be the new normal. And again it's heavily influenced by just the mix that we're currently seeing in areas where there is a higher concentration of reimbursable costs. So yes, in the near term, I would say it's going to be elevated. How long does this last? Not going to provide commentary on '26 at this point. But certainly the balance of the year, we do expect it to be and continue to be elevated.

是的，我的意思是，在短期內這肯定會成為新常態。而且，它再次受到我們目前在可報銷成本集中度較高的地區所見的組合的嚴重影響。所以是的，在短期內，我認為它會上升。這會持續多久？目前不會對 '26 提供評論。但可以肯定的是，我們預計今年的餘額將會並且將繼續上升。

Understood. I try -- I won't poke further at the implied '26 numbers at this point in time.

明白了。我嘗試過——目前我不會進一步探究隱含的「26」數字。

But maybe, just a follow-up, August, to your last comment regarding the win-rate dynamics. I certainly understand how it can bounce around on a quarter-by-quarter basis. With the win-rate, was there anything from a disease state perspective from a -- or any other pieces perspective that characterized why you think the win-rate shook out where it did, or is this also just a random dispersion across your book?

但是，August，也許這只是對你上次關於勝率動態的評論的後續。我當然知道它是如何逐季度波動的。對於勝率，從疾病狀態角度或其他角度來看，有什麼可以說明為什麼您認為勝率會出現這樣的波動，還是這只是您書中的隨機分佈？

Yeah, no, it wasn't. I mean look, it is always concentrated because it -- I mean the factor is very large programs were less likely to win, okay. So I mean we're talking about -- and there were some very large programs in that, and size of project and our experience in this area and our experience with the client, -- obviously if it's a new client and it's very large, and they've got existing providers, our win rates going to be lower, and that's what bounces around quarter-to-quarter.

是的，不是這樣的。我的意思是，它總是集中的，因為它——我的意思是，因素是大型項目不太可能獲勝，好吧。所以我的意思是我們正在談論 - 其中有一些非常大的項目，以及項目規模和我們在這個領域的經驗以及我們與客戶的經驗 - 顯然，如果它是一個新客戶並且非常大，並且他們有現有的供應商，我們的成功率會更低，這就是季度間波動的情況。

We won the projects we expected to win, and unfortunately in that quarter, in this past quarter there were some very large -- and we're talking about dollars, we talk about win rate, it's dollar-based, and so a very large program is a good part. I mean, it actually is -- a single program can be a substantial part of the total wins or losses in the quarter.

我們贏得了我們預期會贏得的項目，不幸的是在那個季度，在上個季度有一些非常大的項目——我們談論的是美元，我們談論的是中標率，它是以美元為基礎的，所以一個非常大的項目是一個很好的部分。我的意思是，事實上——一個單一的項目可能佔該季度總收益或損失的很大一部分。

So it just happened to bounce down in this past quarter. We did lose, it was two very large projects in that. But no, I can't -- it was not like we're weak in a particular therapeutic area or some trend or subset is just happens to be what projects we're close to and which ones were really large.

所以它恰好在上個季度出現反彈。我們確實失敗了，那是兩個非常大的專案。但不，我不能——這並不意味著我們在某個特定的治療領域很弱，或者某種趨勢或子集恰好是我們接近的項目以及哪些項目真的很大。

And one last really quick one if I may as the market's opening, your stocks up a lot. I know the guidance does not assume any more buyback, but conceptually, given the outstanding authorization you still have, how are you thinking about near term balance sheet utilization and the potential for incremental buybacks?

最後，如果可以的話，我再快速說一句，隨著市場開盤，你們的股票上漲了很多。我知道指南並不假設有任何回購，但從概念上講，考慮到您仍然擁有的未償還授權，您如何考慮近期資產負債表利用率和增量回購的潛力？

No, it's more of the same, Michael, that we'll continue to be opportunistic in buying at levels that we see to be very creative, and if our plans don't execute, then we're okay building cash. We're very happy with what we're able to execute in the fourth quarter, first quarter, and second quarter of this year.

不，邁克爾，情況大致相同，我們將繼續抓住機會，在我們認為非常有創意的水平上進行購買，如果我們的計劃沒有執行，那麼我們就可以積累現金。我們對今年第四季、第一季和第二季的業績感到非常滿意。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Eric Coldwell, Baird.

埃里克·科德威爾，貝爾德。

Thank you very much. I have a few, hopefully not too repetitive.

非常感謝。我有幾個，希望不會太重複。

I was hoping we could start with talking about following on that last line of questioning, just talking more broadly about the bookings dynamics this period. There was some speculation going around last night based on the big increase in revenue that maybe you had picked up some large studies. It does not sound like that happened this quarter, anything particularly crazy large.

我希望我們可以從討論最後一個問題開始，更廣泛地談論這段時期的預訂動態。昨晚，根據收入的大幅增長，有人猜測您可能已經完成了一些大型研究。聽起來本季並沒有發生什麼特別瘋狂的大事。

But I was hoping you could just maybe more specifically tell us what your largest win individually was in the quarter, if there were any rescue awards or losses that you could talk to or maybe just broadly talk about competitive dynamics. You did mention your win rate wasn't the best, but talk a bit about competitive dynamics, just hoping to get a little more flavor on the bookings mix and breadth of those bookings to start.

但我希望您能更具體地告訴我們您在本季度最大的個人勝利是什麼，是否有任何可以談論的救助獎勵或損失，或者只是廣泛地談論競爭動態。您確實提到您的勝率不是最好的，但請談一談競爭動態，只是希望能夠對預訂組合和預訂廣度有更多的了解。

Sure, yeah. And Eric, I think your question kind of -- I don't know, in my head confuses some of the moving parts here. So we're talking about competitive wins and we're talking about wins, etc. Those are awards and notifications, and they're not in backlog yet. We're not making any revenue off them, and it's often multiple quarters before they come in.

當然，是的。艾瑞克，我覺得你的問題有點——我不知道，在我的腦海裡混淆了這裡的一些活動部分。所以我們正在談論競爭勝利，我們正在談論勝利等等。這些都是獎勵和通知，它們還沒有積壓。我們沒有從他們身上賺取任何收入，而且他們往往要等上好幾季才能進帳。

So, a new award this quarter is not going to influence our revenue or anything like that. A booking would, probably, because that's when we're starting to get revenue if we, but it could be late in the quarter, it might not be much of a factor, it's mostly in future quarters that's going to impact.

因此，本季的新獎項不會影響我們的收入或類似情況。預訂可能會，因為那時我們開始獲得收入，但這可能是在本季度末，它可能不是一個很大的因素，主要是在未來的幾個季度才會產生影響。

So if I look at just sort of new notifications this quarter, no, nothing particularly stands out. There's nothing particularly large or it was a pretty usual quarter. In fact, the really large stuff, we lost and then so our like -- competitive win rate was actually on the lower side, but completely understandable if you took out the couple, those two outliers, our win rate was great, I mean it was fine. So that's not an issue.

因此，如果我只看本季的新通知，沒有什麼特別突出的。沒有什麼特別大的事情，或者這是一個相當普通的季度。事實上，在真正重要的事情上，我們都輸了，所以我們的競爭勝率實際上處於較低水平，但完全可以理解，如果你去掉那兩個異常值，我們的勝率很高，我的意思是還不錯。所以這不是問題。

And what went into bookings this quarter, nothing particularly unusual or notable. The big -- and there was nothing sort of a rescue or something, a really short-term project that we won during the quarter or something that added to it. It was just kind of usual stuff that progressed that a lot of it we did not anticipate it might progress. Some sort of good upside news on things progressing and we thought might not. Things went faster than expected and we maybe didn't do as great a job at projecting what some of the pass-through, how quickly things were going to move forward on some of the investigator fees, etc.

本季的預訂情況並沒有什麼特別不尋常或值得注意的。最大的——並沒有什麼救援之類的事情，我們在本季度贏得了一個真正的短期項目，或其他附加的東西。這只是一些常見事情的進展，很多事情我們都未曾預料到會取得進展。事情進展中出現了一些好消息，但我們認為可能不會。事情進展得比預期的要快，我們可能沒有很好地預測一些轉嫁問題、一些調查員費用的進展速度等等。

So you know that part of it. I think on a direct fee basis we were probably pretty good at projecting it, but you know there were still projects that went forward that more than we expected and faster than we expected. So there was some upside but there was nothing kind of unusual in terms of short term quick or interim or rescue work or anything like that.

所以你知道這部分內容。我認為，從直接費用來看，我們可能非常擅長預測它，但你知道，仍然有一些項目的進展比我們預期的要多，而且比我們預期的要快。因此，雖然有一些好處，但就短期快速或臨時或救援工作或類似工作而言，並沒有什麼不尋常的地方。

Okay, on the reimbursable indirect revenue commentary and I hate to be this myopic, especially since it's been talked about so much, but I want to make sure I'm 100% clear. When you talk about 200 to 300 basis points increase in mix for the rest of the year, can you clarify, does that specifically mean you're looking at something 41%, 42%-plus in the second half, or does that mean something more like 38%, 39% for the full year compared to 2024 total levels? I'm just -- I'm not 100% clear what that 200 to 300 basis points specifically is in reference to, or what the absolute percentage you're targeting is.

好的，關於可報銷間接收入的評論，我不想這麼短視，特別是因為它已經被談論了很多，但我想確保我 100% 清楚。當您談到今年剩餘時間內組合增加 200 到 300 個基點時，您能否澄清一下，這是否具體意味著您預計下半年的增長率將達到 41%、42% 以上，還是意味著與 2024 年的總體水平相比，全年增長率將達到 38%、39%？我只是——我不是 100% 清楚 200 到 300 個基點具體指的是什麼，或者您所針對的絕對百分比是多少。

Yeah, Eric, yeah thanks for asking the question. To clarify, that's relative to what we saw in the second quarter, so yeah we could see this in the low 40% the back half of this year.

是的，艾瑞克，謝謝你提出這個問題。需要澄清的是，這是相對於我們在第二季度看到的情況而言的，所以是的，我們可能會在今年下半年看到這一比例低於 40%。

Okay and then last one for me for now. So you have obviously, it's kind of shocked the street with this update. You have enormous backlog conversion already. Now it's going up to 41.5%, 42.5% in the second half. Your backlog is down 2% year-over-year, but you're seeing revenue growth as much as 27% in the back half at the high end of the range. I mean, there's just a lot of questions about sustainability.

好的，這是我現在最後一個問題。顯然，這次更新讓大家很震驚。您已經有大量積壓轉換。現在這一比例將上升至41.5%，下半年將上升至42.5%。您的積壓訂單年減了 2%，但下半年的營收成長率卻高達 27%。我的意思是，關於永續性存在著許多問題。

And I know it's so hard to project with the mixed shift in reimbursables which are seemingly clearly driving the majority of the revenue increase and those may or may not continue next year. But what can you give us today that can help us understand the jumping off point from these conversion rates and these growth rates as we look at 2026?

我知道，由於可報銷款項的混合變化似乎明顯推動了大部分收入的成長，因此很難進行預測，而且這些變化明年可能會或可能不會繼續。但是，您今天能告訴我們什麼，以幫助我們了解 2026 年這些轉換率和成長率的起點呢？

I mean, everybody, I know you're not guiding now, but we all have to build models and do assessments for next year, and you've caught us so off-guard, I think, well I'll admit at least I'm scrambling to understand what kind of a growth rate we might be looking at in the next year, it doesn't feel sustainable to be honest, but then again I didn't see this quarter coming so --

我的意思是，各位，我知道你們現在沒有指導，但我們都必須建立模型並為明年進行評估，而你們讓我們措手不及，我想，好吧，我承認至少我正在努力了解明年我們可能會看到的增長率，說實話，這感覺不可持續，但話又說回來，我沒有預見到這個季度的到來，所以--

Yeah, Eric, you broke up a little bit in the middle of that, but I think I heard enough of it. So, if I don't cover it, then jump back.

是的，艾瑞克，你們在中間分手了一點，但我想我已經聽夠了。所以，如果我沒有覆蓋它，那麼就跳回去。

I think that -- Yes, we have had a significant shift towards faster burning stuff. Part of it, our conversion rate is high overall because of the lower denominator, and of course does that mean that we're going to burn off our backlog and then we're going to have a real gap? I don't think that's necessarily true. I think that we do have an adequate business environment to replenish things.

我認為——是的，我們已經朝著更快燃燒的東西邁出了重大的一步。部分原因是，由於分母較低，我們的轉換率總體較高，當然，這是否意味著我們將要處理完積壓的工作，然後就會出現真正的差距？我認為這不一定是事實。我認為我們確實擁有充足的商業環境來補充物資。

I do think that our indirects are ramping because of a shift toward metabolic work. I don't know how long that's going to last, so if it continues, then, okay, I think our growth rate next year is probably fine. If that pulls back, then I think that it can challenge growth rate, but that's because of a drop in reimbursables, and I think on a direct fee basis we're going to do fine.

我確實認為，由於向代謝工作的轉變，我們的間接工作正在增加。我不知道這種情況會持續多久，所以如果這種情況持續下去，那麼，好吧，我認為我們明年的成長率可能還不錯。如果這種情況回落，那麼我認為這會對成長率構成挑戰，但這是因為可報銷金額下降，而且我認為在直接費用基礎上我們會做得很好。

So I think our profitability is going to -- there's no reason to see it dropping off and I think that we could have growth rates similar to this year ex. the Pass-through stuff, right? But I don't know. We don't have the model next year. It's really dependent upon stuff that's coming in now and over the next couple quarters. So, '26 is not really addressable.

所以我認為我們的獲利能力將會——沒有理由看到它下降，而且我認為我們的成長率可能會與今年相似，例如直通部分，對嗎？但我不知道。明年我們沒有這個模型。這實際上取決於現在和未來幾季出現的情況。所以，'26 實際上無法尋址。

But we don't have a reason to believe that we're going to have a challenge next year and have our growth go to zero or something unless Pass-throughs drop drastically and all of our growth is direct fee, but I don't really see that, on a 605 basis we'd be fine.

但是，我們沒有理由相信明年我們會面臨挑戰，我們的增長會降至零或類似水平，除非直通率大幅下降，而且我們所有的增長都是直接費用，但我真的不認為在 605 的基礎上我們會沒事的。

Completely understood. I appreciate the commentary. Thank you.

完全明白。我很欣賞你的評論。謝謝。

Luke Sergott, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的盧克‧塞戈特 (Luke Sergott)。

Great, thanks for the questions. I just kind of want to figure out, we've talked a lot about the moving parts, everybody's focused on the burn rates, etc. But you have this elevated burn rates, everything stepped up materially, you have a big step up in bookings. You didn't need to hire additional SG&A for the type of revenue growth that we would typically think.

太好了，謝謝你的提問。我只是想弄清楚，我們已經討論了很多活動部件，每個人都關注燒錢率等等。但是你的燒錢率提高了，一切都有了實質的提升，你的預訂量有了很大的提升。您不需要像我們通常認為的那樣，為實現收入成長而僱用額外的銷售、一般和行政人員。

You had DSO step up materially also in the quarter so, and it doesn't sound like you picked up some ongoing work from someone else or share gains. So I'm just trying to figure out like what's going -- like what actually drove you know this step up and everything and trying to foot all these different metrics.

在本季度，您的 DSO 也大幅增加，這聽起來不像是您從其他人那裡獲得了一些正在進行的工作或分享了收益。所以我只是想弄清楚到底發生了什麼事——是什麼真正推動了這一進步以及一切，並試圖衡量所有這些不同的指標。

Well, a drop in cancellations. I mean, look we've been running at growth rates of 20%-plus for a long time. Things dropped back, we did have a weakening environment, but still our fundamental growth rate I think is pretty good ex. a lot of unusual cancellations. Now that's part of the same package, I mean the same environment that causes the cancellations reduced opportunities to some extent.

嗯，取消的數量有下降。我的意思是，我們已經長期維持了 20% 以上的成長率。情況有所回落，我們確實面臨一個疲軟的環境，但我認為我們的基本成長率仍然相當不錯，例如有很多不尋常的取消。現在，這是同一個方案的一部分，我的意思是導致取消的相同環境在某種程度上減少了機會。

But, I don't know, how you close the loop on those things. The environment is reasonable if cancellations are reasonably behaved. Our conversion rate is up because we have dropped both -- two major factors. The denominator has not grown as expected, and we have a shift towards faster burning stuff. I mean, we're in an era of a lot of metabolic type of programs or particularly in the obesity space are an important part of the market.

但是，我不知道如何完成這些事情。如果取消行為合理，環境就是合理的。我們的轉換率上升是因為我們放棄了兩個主要因素。分母並沒有像預期的那樣增長，我們轉向了燃燒速度更快的東西。我的意思是，我們正處於一個有很多代謝類型的計劃或特別是肥胖領域的計劃是市場的重要組成部分的時代。

So that's made things have a faster burn turnaround, but otherwise I think the big step up from our expectation was less cancellations than we anticipated.

因此，這使得事情的進展速度更快，但除此之外，我認為與我們的預期相比，最大的進步是取消的數量比我們預期的要少。

Okay, and then I guess just to follow on that, your backlog that you guys report so like anything over 12 months. That's included there. It took a pretty big step down in the quarter. It's been declining the last few quarters, and that makes sense with everything you're saying like faster burn rates and so more near term stuff.

好的，然後我想繼續討論一下你們報告的積壓情況，例如 12 個月以上的任何事情。其中包括了。本季其下滑幅度相當大。過去幾季它一直在下降，這和你所說的一樣，例如更快的燒錢速度和更多短期的東西。

So as you think about it as this starts to roll off like, what's the average timeline of these faster burning trials as we think about into '26 and '27? I mean that's like to Eric’s saying like we're all trying to model here of what we're thinking for '26 and the range just gets pretty really wide.

因此，當您思考這個問題時，隨著這一切開始展開，我們考慮 26 年和 27 年這些更快燃燒試驗的平均時間表是多少？我的意思是，就像 Eric 所說的那樣，我們都在嘗試在這裡模擬我們對 26 年的想法，而且範圍非常廣泛。

Yeah, I mean, I can't give you an average for overall categories or something like that. But look, long studies can be 6 to 10 years in duration and oncology studies are classically kind of that and they run a very long time and it's a slow burn. Metabolic studies, some of these can run in two, three years and have a larger proportion of indirects as a part of it.

是的，我的意思是，我無法給你一個總體類別的平均值或類似的東西。但是，長期研究可能持續 6 到 10 年，腫瘤學研究通常就是這樣的，它們持續很長時間，而且進展緩慢。一些代謝研究可以在兩到三年內完成，其中很大一部分是間接研究。

And indirect, usually the model is the direct fees burn a lot faster up front, toward the beginning. That's when a lot of work is being done in organizing and setting up and getting the trial ongoing and recruited. But a lot of the investigator fees are later on when patients are enrolled and having lots of visits. So there's usually acceleration -- the direct fees are the first half of the study heavy and the second half, it's investigator costs. Metabolic study, like I said, it can be very fast and it all happens at once.

而間接的，通常的模式是直接費用在一開始就消耗得更快。此時，正在進行大量的組織、設置、試驗的進行和招募工作。但許多研究人員的費用都是在患者入組並進行多次就診後支付的。因此通常會有加速——直接費用佔研究費用的前半部分，後半部分是研究人員的費用。就像我說的，代謝研究可以進行得非常快，而且一切都同時發生。

Okay, and then just real quick from the last one, as I think about like from the margin and the hiring needs to meet these trials. Like we talked about the efficiency on your existing base and you guys don't do FSP, so and you have a really strong culture where the attrition rates are really low. So how should we think about your hiring needs in the back half if you're going to be able to sustain the type of burn rates and elevated growth?

好的，然後從最後一個開始快速說，我想從利潤和招募需求來滿足這些試驗。就像我們談論你們現有基礎上的效率一樣，你們不做 FSP，所以你們擁有非常強大的文化，員工流動率非常低。那麼，如果您要維持這種燒錢率和高速成長，我們該如何考慮下半年的招募需求？

Yeah, back half of the year, we do expect accelerated hiring. We expect to hire more in the second half than we hired in the first half. We still think we'll be kind of in the mid-single digit to kind of upper mid-single digit growth rate for the year, but then if we move into the third quarter and fourth quarter, depending on a lot of factors including the business environment and new opportunities and activity, we have opportunities to accelerate that beyond that. But right now we're very comfortable with current headcount levels, and projections to handle the current and future projects. (inaudible)

是的，今年上半年我們確實預期招募會加速。我們預計下半年招募的人數將比上半年多。我們仍然認為，今年的成長率將處於中等個位數到中等偏上的個位數之間，但如果進入第三季度和第四季度，根據包括商業環境、新機會和活動在內的許多因素，我們將有機會加速成長。但目前我們對目前的員工人數以及處理當前和未來專案的預測非常滿意。（聽不清楚）

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Charles Rhyee, TD Cowen.

查爾斯·瑞伊（Charles Rhyee），考恩（Cowen）TD。

Yeah, thanks for taking questions. I just wanted to follow up on some of the questions from earlier. August, it sounds like what you're saying is that, what we've really been seeing over the last year or so plus with the funding environment that's really tied really that's where cancellations will come in, people that can't get funded, projects cancel, but that projects themselves new RFPs that flow has never changed. Has that always been constant, over the last couple of years?

是的，感謝您回答問題。我只是想繼續回答之前提出的一些問題。奧古斯特，聽起來你所說的是，我們在過去一年左右的時間裡真正看到的情況，加上融資環境確實非常緊張，這才是取消項目的原因，人們無法獲得資金，項目被取消，但項目本身的新 RFP 流從未改變。在過去的幾年裡，這種情況一直持續嗎？

I wouldn't say that's not changed. I'm saying that the -- I think the big outlier, the biggest component for us has been very elevated cancellations. They've held things back quite a bit. I'm not saying that overall environment certainly over the last few years, it hasn't weakened from kind of the COVID high, and it came back, and it's been weaker. There's weaker funding overall. So you have less attractive opportunities.

我不會說這沒有改變。我說的是──我認為最大的異常值，對我們來說最大的因素是取消率非常高。他們已經把事情控制得相當嚴密了。我並不是說過去幾年的整體環境肯定沒有從新冠疫情高峰期減弱，後來又回來了，而且變得更弱了。整體而言，資金較弱。因此，你面臨的機會就沒那麼誘人了。

RFPs don't necessarily reflect what's going on. And so last year, there was certainly weak overall opportunities. And sometimes people looking for a price that they could get it done at, et cetera, and less opportunity. But the biggest thing of late has been cancellations that just -- like I said, I thought we were past it all in Q4, and I thought this was the bottom and things are improving. And the biggest gap hasn't been the improved fundamental opportunities that we started seeing in Q4, okay?

RFP 不一定能反映正在發生的事情。因此，去年整體機會確實較弱。有時人們會尋找一個可以完成任務的價格，等等，但機會較少。但最近最大的問題是訂單取消——就像我說的，我以為我們在第四季度已經度過了這一切，我認為這是底部，情況正在好轉。而最大的差距並不是我們在第四季開始看到的改善的基本機會，好嗎？

So the business environment started -- before that, yes, we had real weakness in everything. But the business environment seemed to be okay on new opportunities the last several quarters, but cancellations, were just -- last quarter, were horrendous. And that's what has been probably the biggest uncertainty in our modeling is cancellations rather than new opportunities and new awards.

因此，商業環境開始了——在此之前，是的，我們在所有方面都存在著真正的弱點。但過去幾個季度，商業環境似乎對新機會還不錯，但上個季度的取消情況卻非常糟糕。這可能是我們模型中最大的不確定性，即取消，而不是新的機會和新的獎勵。

They're both components of it, but it's really been the cancellations that have thrown us off. And this past quarter, Q2, showed a great improvement in that. But we saw a great improvement in Q4 -- I don't know. We'll see. Q1 was -- had spiked again.

它們都是其中的一部分，但真正讓我們感到困惑的是這些取消。而剛剛過去的第二季度，這方面有了很大的改善。但我們在第四季度看到了巨大的進步——我不知道。我們將拭目以待。Q1 再次飆升。

And then in terms of this quarter cancellations were obviously much lower relative to Q1. Anything that when you look at reasons for the cancellations are those all tied to funding? Or is that -- how much of that maybe is changing priorities from sponsors?

就本季而言，取消的數量顯然比第一季低得多。當您查看取消的原因時，是否所有原因都與資金有關？或者——這其中有多少可能是贊助商的優先事項發生了變化？

You can never sort that out entirely. I think they're very highly related. Reprioritization is sometimes another word for cutting back. And so I don't know. But I do think the funding environment has been a critical part of the vast majority of cancellations.

你永遠不可能完全解決這個問題。我認為它們高度相關。重新排序有時是削減的另一種說法。所以我不知道。但我確實認為，資金環境是導致絕大多數項目取消的關鍵因素。

Okay. And then you talked about earlier, faster burning therapeutic areas like metabolic. But when we look at revenue contribution by category, that's sequentially the same in metabolic -- it was sort of this other category. We saw a big step up in the quarter. Can you give us some examples of therapy area in that other bucket that you saw this big pickup? And just curious like what kind of visibility you have or like how much of your upcoming pipeline of RFP activity is in this other bucket? And what kind of visibility do you have into that?

好的。然後您談到了更早、更快燃燒的治療領域，例如代謝。但是，當我們查看按類別劃分的收入貢獻時，我們發現代謝收入的順序是相同的——這屬於其他類別。我們在本季看到了巨大的進步。您能給我們舉一些您在這個大皮卡上看到的其他桶中的治療領域的例子嗎？我只是好奇您有什麼樣的可見性，或者您即將進行的 RFP 活動有多少屬於這個其他類別？您對此有何看法？

Yeah. No, I mean it's -- it's a bunch of different things. And I don't -- there's nothing that sort of is the vast majority of it or something. But look, the big trend has been metabolic over the last year. If you look at our metabolic revenue and awards, and they've been a higher percent of the overall, and they will continue because of the awards, they're going to continue for the next couple of quarters anyway to be a growing part of our overall revenue base. And they tend to be -- overall, some of them are long term, but overall tend to be faster burning and higher indirect fees.

是的。不，我的意思是——它是一堆不同的東西。我不認為──沒有什麼東西是那種佔絕大多數的東西。但看看，過去一年的大趨勢是新陳代謝。如果你看一下我們的代謝收入和獎勵，你會發現它們在整體收入中所佔的比例更高，而且由於這些獎勵，它們將繼續保持這種狀態，無論如何，在接下來的幾個季度裡，它們將繼續成為我們整體收入基礎中不斷增長的一部分。總體而言，其中一些是長期的，但總體而言往往消耗速度更快，間接費用更高。

That's great. And maybe last one for me. You talked about faster decision-making. Anything that you can elaborate on what that might be? Is that just maybe with drug pricing kind of being kicked out with MSN maybe towards the end of the year? And just people deciding, hey, you know what we can't wait forever. And so we just got to make decisions now, or anything that could maybe point to why decision-making maybe has picked up again?

那太棒了。對我來說這也許是最後一個了。您談到了更快的決策。您能詳細說明一下那可能是什麼嗎？這是否可能只是因為藥品定價在年底前被 MSN 淘汰了？人們只是決定，嘿，你知道我們不能永遠等待。所以我們現在必須做出決定，或任何可能指出為什麼決策可能會再次上升的事情？

No, I think that's funding again. I mean I think we saw things somewhat seizing up our pending RFP dollars, that is RFPs we've received. We made a bid on and are just sitting there waiting for a response and no decision and no go-forward on things even though we have been awarded and they say yes, we're going to use us, they agree to-- but then they want to hold off on things until -- I think largely that sometimes there's other reasons. There's drug supply. There's other waiting on some other information on the drug, et cetera, another study may be completing whatever. There's lots of reasons.

不，我認為這又是資金問題。我的意思是，我認為我們看到一些事情在某種程度上佔用了我們待處理的 RFP 資金，也就是我們收到的 RFP。我們進行了投標，只是坐在那裡等待回复，沒有決定，也沒有進展，儘管我們已經中標，他們說是的，我們會使用我們，他們同意了 - 但是他們想推遲事情直到 - 我認為很大程度上有時還有其他原因。有毒品供應。還有一些關於該藥物的其他資訊需要等待，等等，另一項研究可能正在完成。有很多原因。

But funding is a big part of it. And I think we've seen a more rapid execution on sponsor’s sides to move forward and give us authorization and get us stuff that we need to move forward has been funding related.

但資金是其中很重要的一環。我認為，我們已經看到贊助商方面執行得更加迅速，他們給予我們授權，並為我們提供推進專案所需的資金。

Okay great. I really appreciate the comments. Thank you.

好的，太好了。我非常感謝這些評論。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Justin Bowers, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的賈斯汀·鮑爾斯。

So Jesse, just a quick cleanup question. On the employee growth, you were breaking up a little bit, but it sounded like accelerated hiring in the second half in mid- to upper single digits. Is that for the second half? Or is that for the full year?

那麼傑西，只是一個快速清理問題。關於員工成長，您稍微分解了一下，但聽起來下半年的招募速度加快了，達到了中上個位數。那是下半場嗎？還是說這是全年的？

Yeah, accelerated hiring in the second half. So hiring more second half than the past the high single digits for the full year.

是的，下半年加速招募。因此，下半年的招募人數將比過去全年的高個位數增加。

Okay. So second half employee growth should be mid to high single digit year-over-year.

好的。因此下半年員工人數年增應該會達到中高個位數。

Correct.

正確的。

We're talking about the full year would be high single-digit growth over the prior year.

我們談論的是全年將比上一年實現高個位數成長。

Oh, okay. So then you're looking at a --

哦好的。那你正在看的是--

It obviously has to increase some like around --

顯然必須增加一些，例如--

For the six months year-to-date, we grew by 1.5% post. We'll expect that to accelerate a bit higher than -- I'm sorry 2.5% for the first half. The head count was up 2.5% for the six months. We expect a growth rate in the second half at or slightly above that for the second half.

今年迄今的六個月裡，我們的成長率為 1.5%。我們預計上半年的成長速度會略高於 2.5%。六個月內員工人數增加了2.5%。我們預計下半年的成長率將與上半年持平或略高。

Okay. So you're expecting to grow --

好的。所以你期待成長--

5% or 6% for the full year.

全年為 5% 或 6%。

Okay, alright. And then in terms of what's the growth this year, the top line that your forecast -- what does the guidance assume for growth on a 605 basis for the top line.

好的，好的。那麼就今年的成長而言，您預測的營收是多少——指導意見假設營收在 605 的基礎上成長多少。

Yeah, Justin, we don't provide a 605 basis look. I think if you just model it kind of using the guidance that we have out there and assume kind of the 200 to 300 basis points increase in reimbursable cost over the balance of the year, you kind of back into what that could be.

是的，賈斯汀，我們不提供 605 基礎外觀。我認為，如果您只是使用我們現有的指導來建模，並假設在全年餘額中可報銷成本增加 200 到 300 個基點，您將回到可能的狀況。

Okay. And then in terms of -- it sounds like the burn rate is going to -- is fairly sustainable, likely to increase in the back half of the year. What does the pre-backlog or your current authorizations but not yet in backlog, the mix look like. Is that, is that similar to what the revenue composition has been like this year, or are there any notable differences to call out, in terms of therapeutic mix.

好的。然後就燒錢率而言，聽起來燒錢率是相當可持續的，可能會在今年下半年增加。積壓前的事務或您目前的授權但尚未積壓的事務組合是什麼樣的。這是否與今年的收入組成相似，或者在治療組合方面是否存在值得注意的差異。

Yeah, we're seeing a move towards more metabolic and that'll continue. It looks like based upon anticipated awards, yeah.

是的，我們看到了新陳代謝的趨勢，而且這種趨勢將會持續下去。是的，這看起來像是基於預期的獎項。

Okay. And then on the cancellations there's really two things that jump out. One was just the improved execution and the changes there during the quarter and then clearly like the cancellations as cited as well. When did you like -- when did that start to really inflect or turn? Was that something that -- was that sort of May where things really started to change or did that -- was that exiting March or --

好的。關於取消，有兩件事引人注目。一是本季執行情況的改善和變化，然後顯然也提到了取消。您什麼時候喜歡－什麼時候開始真正改變或轉變？是不是到了五月，事情才開始真正發生變化，或者說，到了三月，或者--

Yeah, I don't have the monthly breakout, and we kind of reconcile these things quarterly, so there isn't like good and we obviously do know the date of notification of something, etc. But I've just not tried to sort out when exactly cancels and if they were low in March, before this quarter began or didn't start until May, after the quarter was well into it or what, but it pretty much across the quarter, we had lower cancellations.

是的，我沒有月度明細數據，我們通常是按季度核對這些數據，所以數據不太好，我們顯然也知道通知的日期等等。但我只是沒有嘗試理清取消訂單的具體時間，以及取消訂單的數量是在 3 月份較低，還是在本季度開始之前，還是在 5 月份才開始，還是在本季度結束後，或者其他什麼情況，但基本上在整個季度中，取消訂單的數量都較低。

but I can't -- I just don't have the good data of just when you call it a -- and what do you mean by, when it's kind of -- they give us a notification, but we don't really know what's happening, and then they finally reconcile what exactly we're going to do to close this thing down or these are kind of things that have a period to them. But, look I think Q2 was much lower than Q1.

但是我不能——我只是沒有很好的數據，當你稱之為——你的意思是什麼，當它是——他們給我們一個通知，但我們真的不知道發生了什麼，然後他們最終協調我們到底要做什麼來關閉這個東西，或者這些都是有期限的事情。但是，我認為第二季度比第一季低得多。

Okay, and then maybe just one last one for me online. What was change order activity like during the quarter and how did that change from 1Q or even what you saw towards tail-end of last year?

好的，那麼也許這只是我在網路上的最後一個問題。本季的變更單活動情況如何？與第一季相比，甚至與去年年底相比，有何變化？

I don't, I don't have the numbers on, just what the magnitude of change orders were, but there's nothing been particularly unusual there.

我沒有具體數字，不知道變更單的規模有多大，但也沒有什麼特別不尋常的事。

Yeah, Justin I wouldn't say there's anything unusual in change orders; they happen all the time, but nothing that would stick out.

是的，賈斯汀，我不會說變更單有什麼不尋常的地方；它們一直在發生，但沒有什麼會引人注目。

Okay, nothing. Okay. I just, one thought was that --

好吧，沒什麼。好的。我只是想--

Again, change orders sometimes they award something -- it's going to be a global study of this, but they want to award it first as just the first region or something. And then we're going to -- planning in six months and you don't have the budget for it until then. And so it's -- what's even a change order? It's difficult. It's when we get authorization and then when it meets our criteria for going into backlog.

再次，改變訂單，有時他們會授予某些東西——這將是一項全球性的研究，但他們想首先將其授予為第一個地區或某個地方。然後我們將在六個月內進行規劃，但在此之前您還沒有預算。那麼──變更單又是什麼呢？它很難。當我們獲得授權並且它符合我們進入積壓的標準時，它就會出現。

Okay, thanks. I'll jump out. We'll catch up after the call.

好的，謝謝。我就跳出去。通話結束後我們會繼續溝通。

Kyle Crews, UBS.

瑞銀集團的凱爾克魯斯（Kyle Crews）。

Hey, thank you for taking the question. You've historically disclosed around a high single digit revenue exposure to cell and gene therapy. Can you talk about the impact of Sarepta recently having their clinical trials put on hold and kind of the pausing of the platform technology designation there and the impact to your company? Thank you.

嘿，謝謝你回答這個問題。您過去曾揭露過細胞和基因治療的收入約為個位數。您能談談 Sarepta 最近暫停臨床試驗以及暫停平台技術指定的影響以及對貴公司的影響嗎？謝謝。

It has no impact on us.

這對我們沒有影響。

Can you maybe speak more broadly to the cell and gene therapy market and what you've seen there and if you're still exposed to it?

您能否更廣泛地談談細胞和基因治療市場以及您在該市場所看到的情況以及您是否仍接觸該市場？

Look, we don't have a great deal of exposure to the overall area, but we certainly do have exposure, but I don't think there's -- we not -- Sarepta, they're not -- it's not a -- I don't think it's going to have an impact on our programs, but --

你看，我們在整個地區的曝光度並不高，但我們肯定有曝光度，但我不認為 - 我們沒有 - Sarepta，他們不是 - 這不是 - 我不認為它會對我們的項目產生影響，但是--

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, and I'm showing no further questions at this time, and I would like to hand the conference back over to Lauren Morris for any closing remarks.

謝謝，我現在沒有其他問題了，我想將會議交還給勞倫莫里斯 (Lauren Morris) 做結束語。

Good, thank you for joining us on today's call and for your interest in Medpace. We look forward to speaking with you again on our third-quarter 2025 earnings call.

很好，感謝您參加今天的電話會議以及對 Medpace 的關注。我們期待在 2025 年第三季財報電話會議上再次與您交談。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect. Everyone have a great day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。祝大家有個愉快的一天。