Mediaalpha Inc (MAX) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Karen, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the MediaAlpha, Inc., second-quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持。我叫凱倫，今天我將擔任你們的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 MediaAlpha, Inc. 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

I will now turn the call over to Alex Liloia. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話轉給 Alex Liloia。請繼續。

Thanks, Karen. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. With me are Co-Founder and CEO, Steve Yi; and CFO, Pat Thompson. On today's call, we'll make forward-looking statements relating to our business and outlook for future financial results, including our financial guidance for the third quarter of 2025. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially.

謝謝，凱倫。下午好，感謝您加入我們。與我一起的還有聯合創始人兼執行長 Steve Yi 和財務長 Pat Thompson。在今天的電話會議上，我們將就我們的業務和未來財務業績展望做出前瞻性陳述，包括我們對 2025 年第三季的財務指導。這些前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果大不相同。

Please refer to our SEC filings, including our annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q, for a fuller explanation of those risks and uncertainties, and the limits applicable to forward-looking statements. All the forward-looking statements we make on this call reflect our assumptions and beliefs as of today, and we disclaim any obligation to update such statements, except as required by law.

請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括 10-K 表年度報告和 10-Q 表季度報告，以獲得對這些風險和不確定性以及適用於前瞻性陳述的限制的更全面解釋。我們在本次電話會議上所做的所有前瞻性陳述均反映了我們截至今天的假設和信念，除非法律要求，否則我們不承擔更新此類陳述的任何義務。

Today's discussion will include non-GAAP financial measures, which are not a substitute for GAAP results. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to the corresponding GAAP measures can be found in our press release and shareholder letter issued today, which are available on the Investor Relations section of our website.

今天的討論將包括非 GAAP 財務指標，它們不能取代 GAAP 結果。這些非 GAAP 財務指標與相應 GAAP 指標的對帳可以在我們今天發布的新聞稿和股東信中找到，這些都可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。

I'll now turn the call over to Steve.

我現在將電話轉給史蒂夫。

Thanks, Alex. Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us. Let me start with the FTC resolution we announced this afternoon.

謝謝，亞歷克斯。大家好。感謝您加入我們。首先，我要談談我們今天下午宣布的聯邦貿易委員會決議。

As we shared in our press release and Form 8-K filing, we've reached a settlement with the FTC that fully resolves its investigation into our under-65 health insurance business. The key terms include $45 million of payments, which we will fund from cash on hand, as well as additional compliance measures to further strengthen our safeguards within our under-65 marketplace.

正如我們在新聞稿和 8-K 表格文件中所述，我們已與聯邦貿易委員會達成和解，徹底解決了對我們 65 歲以下健康保險業務的調查。主要條款包括 4,500 萬美元的付款（我們將使用現有現金支付），以及額外的合規措施，以進一步加強我們在 65 歲以下市場中的保障措施。

While we strongly disagree with the FTC's allegations, we believe resolving this matter now is in the best interest of MediaAlpha and our shareholders. We view this as a positive step forward and are pleased to have this matter behind us.

雖然我們強烈反對聯邦貿易委員會的指控，但我們認為現在解決此事符合 MediaAlpha 和我們股東的最佳利益。我們認為這是向前邁出的積極一步，並且很高興這件事已經過去了。

Now turning to the second quarter, we delivered solid results, driven by ongoing momentum in our P&C insurance vertical. Growth was again fueled by increased marketing investments from leading auto insurance carriers. With underwriting margins at robust levels, the impact of automotive tariffs are looking increasingly manageable.

現在轉向第二季度，我們取得了穩健的業績，這得益於我們財產和意外保險垂直領域的持續成長勢頭。領先的汽車保險公司增加行銷投資再次推動了成長。由於承保利潤率處於強勁水平，汽車關稅的影響看起來越來越可控。

And with slowing rate increases providing less of a tailwind for premium growth, gaining market share by acquiring new customers has become even more strategically important for most carriers. We expect these favorable industry dynamics to sustain healthy levels of auto insurance advertising spend in the second half of this year and beyond.

隨著費率成長放緩，對保費成長的推動作用減弱，透過吸引新客戶來擴大市場份額對於大多數營運商來說已變得更具戰略重要性。我們預計這些有利的產業動態將在今年下半年及以後維持健康的汽車保險廣告支出水準。

New supply partner wins also contributed to our strong second-quarter results, underscoring the growing competitive advantage of our marketplace technology, operating efficiency, and industry-leading scale. In our health insurance vertical, we believe the most significant dollar decreases in under-65 transaction value are behind us.

贏得新的供應合作夥伴也為我們第二季度的強勁業績做出了貢獻，凸顯了我們的市場技術、營運效率和行業領先規模日益增長的競爭優勢。在我們的健康保險垂直領域，我們認為 65 歲以下交易額的最大降幅已經過去。

While we continue to expect year-over-year declines in the near-term, our health business remains solidly profitable and our relationships with leading Medicare Advantage carriers are as strong as ever. Over time, we're confident that health insurance carriers will allocate more marketing dollars to direct-to-consumer digital channels, which we continue to see as a meaningful long-term growth opportunity for MediaAlpha.

儘管我們預計短期內會出現同比下滑，但我們的健康業務仍然保持穩健的盈利，而且我們與領先的醫療保險優勢保險公司的關係一如既往地牢固。隨著時間的推移，我們相信健康保險公司將向直接面向消費者的數位管道分配更多的行銷資金，我們繼續將此視為 MediaAlpha 的一個有意義的長期成長機會。

With P&C firing in all cylinders and the FTC matter resolved, we're confident in our trajectory for the rest of the year and beyond. We remain intently focused on capturing the significant multiyear growth opportunities ahead, creating value for our partners, and delivering strong long-term returns for our shareholders.

隨著 P&C 業務全面運作以及 FTC 問題的解決，我們對今年剩餘時間及以後的發展軌跡充滿信心。我們將繼續專注於抓住未來多年的重大成長機遇，為我們的合作夥伴創造價值，並為我們的股東帶來強勁的長期回報。

With that, I'll hand it over to Pat.

說完這些，我就把它交給帕特。

Great. Thanks, Steve. I'll start by walking through the key drivers of our Q2 results. Transaction value was $481 million, up 49% year over year, driven by 71% year-over-year growth in our P&C vertical. In our health vertical, transaction value declined 32% year over year, coming in slightly below our expectations.

偉大的。謝謝，史蒂夫。我將首先介紹我們第二季業績的關鍵驅動因素。交易價值為 4.81 億美元，年增 49%，這得益於我們的 P&C 垂直業務年增 71%。在我們的健康垂直領域，交易價值較去年同期下降 32%，略低於我們的預期。

Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $24.5 million, increasing 31% year over year. This slightly lagged our expectations due to a modestly lower take rate in the quarter, driven by our decision to accelerate our strategy to scale back parts of our higher-margin under-65 business, along with some nice incremental partner wins in P&C that are at lower-than-average take rates.

本季調整後 EBITDA 為 2,450 萬美元，年增 31%。這略微落後於我們的預期，因為本季度的收費率略有下降，這是由於我們決定加快我們的策略以縮減部分利潤率較高的 65 歲以下業務，以及在 P&C 領域贏得了一些不錯的增量合作夥伴，但收費率低於平均水平。

For the quarter, adjusted EBITDA represented 62% of contribution, up from 56% in the prior year. Adjusted EBITDA included $35.3 million of add-backs related to the FTC matter, consisting of $2.3 million of legal expenses and an additional $33 million reserve recorded to reflect the total $45 million settlement payable.

本季，調整後的 EBITDA 貢獻率為 62%，高於去年同期的 56%。調整後的 EBITDA 包括與 FTC 事宜相關的 3530 萬美元加回，其中包括 230 萬美元的法律費用和記錄的額外 3300 萬美元儲備金，以反映應付的 4500 萬美元總額的和解金。

Looking ahead, we expect record third-quarter transaction value as we benefit from continued strong demand from the largest carriers in our marketplace. Accordingly, we expect P&C transaction value to grow approximately 35% year over year.

展望未來，我們預計第三季交易額將創歷史新高，因為我們受益於市場上最大承運商的持續強勁需求。因此，我們預計財產和意外保險交易價值將年增約 35%。

In our health vertical, we expect transaction value to decline approximately 40% to 45% year over year, reflecting a decrease in our under-65 business from Q2 levels, as well as continued challenging conditions in Medicare Advantage.

在我們的健康垂直領域，我們預計交易價值將年減約 40% 至 45%，這反映了我們 65 歲以下業務較第二季度水準的下降，以及醫療保險優勢計劃持續面臨的挑戰。

For under-65 specifically, we expect Q3 transaction value of approximately $18 million, reflecting a 54% year-over-year decline and contribution of about $1 million, a roughly 80% decline year over year. To provide greater transparency into the new baseline for our health vertical, this quarter's earnings materials include transaction value and contribution for our under-65 business over the past six quarters.

具體來說，對於 65 歲以下族群，我們預計第三季交易額約為 1,800 萬美元，年減 54%，貢獻約 100 萬美元，年減約 80%。為了更透明地了解我們健康垂直領域的新基準，本季的收益材料包括過去六個季度我們 65 歲以下業務的交易價值和貢獻。

We expect 2025 under-65 transaction value of $95 million to $100 million and contribution of about $10 million, resulting in a take rate of about 10% at the midpoint. By comparison, 2024 transaction value contribution and take rate were $179 million, $29 million, and 16%, respectively. Looking ahead, we expect that under-65 will generate annual contribution in the single-digit millions, reflecting the reset in both scale and profitability for this subvertical.

我們預計 2025 年 65 歲以下交易價值將達到 9,500 萬至 1 億美元，貢獻約 1,000 萬美元，因此中間點的接受率約為 10%。相較之下，2024 年的交易價值貢獻和收取率分別為 1.79 億美元、2,900 萬美元和 16%。展望未來，我們預計 65 歲以下人群每年的貢獻將達到數千萬，這反映了該子垂直行業的規模和盈利能力的重新調整。

Moving to our consolidated financial guidance, we expect Q3 transaction value to be between $545 million and $570 million, representing a year-over-year increase of 23% at the midpoint. We expect revenue to be between $270 million and $290 million, representing a year-over-year increase of 8% at the midpoint.

根據我們的合併財務指引，我們預計第三季交易額將在 5.45 億美元至 5.7 億美元之間，以中位數計算年增 23%。我們預計營收將在 2.7 億美元至 2.9 億美元之間，中間值年增 8%。

Adjusted EBITDA is expected to be between $25.5 million and $27.5 million, representing a year-over-year increase of 1% at the midpoint, including a $4 million impact from an expected year-over-year decline in under-65 contribution. We expect overhead to increase sequentially by approximately $1 million as we continue to selectively invest in headcount to support and drive growth.

調整後的 EBITDA 預計在 2550 萬美元至 2750 萬美元之間，按中間值計算同比增長 1%，其中包括 65 歲以下人群貢獻預計同比下降帶來的 400 萬美元的影響。我們預計管理費用將連續增加約 100 萬美元，因為我們將繼續有選擇地投資員工隊伍以支持和推動成長。

We generated significant cash flow and made solid progress in deleveraging our balance sheet during the quarter. In Q2, we generated $22 million of cash and ended the quarter with $85 million of cash and a net debt-to-adjusted EBITDA ratio of 0.6 times.

本季度，我們產生了大量現金流，並在資產負債表去槓桿方面取得了堅實進展。在第二季度，我們產生了 2,200 萬美元的現金，並在本季末擁有 8,500 萬美元的現金，淨負債與調整後 EBITDA 比率為 0.6 倍。

Excluding nonrecurring payments related to the FTC matter, with $33.5 million expected to be paid in Q3 and the remaining $11.5 million in Q4, we expect to convert a significant portion of adjusted EBITDA into unlevered free cash flow, providing us with substantial financial flexibility going forward.

不包括與 FTC 事宜相關的非經常性付款，預計第三季支付 3350 萬美元，第四季度支付剩餘的 1150 萬美元，我們預計將調整後的 EBITDA 的很大一部分轉化為無槓桿自由現金流，為我們未來提供巨大的財務靈活性。

Finally, I'm pleased to announce that on August 4, we extended the maturity of $142.6 million of the $156.3 million of indebtedness outstanding under our credit facilities by one year through July of 2027. The remaining $14 million will mature in July of 2026.

最後，我很高興地宣布，8 月 4 日，我們將信貸安排下未償還的 1.563 億美元債務中的 1.426 億美元的到期日延長一年，至 2027 年 7 月。剩餘的 1,400 萬美元將於 2026 年 7 月到期。

With that, operator, we are ready to take the first question.

接線員，現在我們可以開始回答第一個問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Maria Ripps, Canaccord Genuity.

（操作員指示）Maria Ripps，Canaccord Genuity。

Great. Good afternoon, and thanks for taking my questions. Congrats on the settlement. So now with the SEC matter sort of resolved and with you committing to the stronger compliance framework, how do you see sort of this enhancing your competitive positioning in the under-65 vertical? And maybe talk about how this new sort of content review and partner screening processes might impact sort of user experience and conversion quality.

偉大的。下午好，感謝您回答我的問題。恭喜達成和解。那麼，現在 SEC 問題已經解決，而且您承諾建立更強大的合規框架，您認為這將如何增強您在 65 歲以下垂直領域的競爭地位？也許可以討論一下這種新的內容審查和合作夥伴篩選流程可能會如何影響使用者體驗和轉換品質。

Hey, Maria. Hey, thanks for that question. Well, I think in terms of, I think, what the measures that we've taken prior to the settlement as well as the terms of the settlement that we will implement in the upcoming weeks, I think what that's going to do is set a new baseline for our under-65 health insurance business.

嘿，瑪麗亞。嘿，謝謝你提出這個問題。嗯，我認為，就我們在和解之前採取的措施以及我們將在未來幾週內實施的和解條款而言，我認為這將為我們 65 歲以下的健康保險業務設定新的基準。

And again, let me just remind everyone that the terms of the settlement really focus just on the under-65 side. So it will have no material impact on the Medicare side of our business or the P&C side of our business. I think what that's going to do is really create a new baseline for us to start to build from.

我再次提醒大家，和解條款其實只關注 65 歲以下的人。因此，它不會對我們的醫療保險業務或財產及意外傷害保險業務產生重大影響。我認為這確實會為我們開始建設創造一個新的基礎。

The reason that we continue to stay in the under-65 business is because we still think that there is an opportunity for us to work with consumers and help them navigate through sort of the myriad of choices that they have if they don't qualify for Medicare and if they don't have an employer-sponsored plan.

我們繼續從事 65 歲以下人群業務的原因是，我們仍然認為我們有機會與消費者合作，幫助他們在沒有資格享受醫療保險或沒有雇主贊助的計劃的情況下，在眾多選擇中找到自己的方向。

I think with the recent changes from the Trump administration, right, disenrolling a number of millions of people from Medicaid as well as making eligibility requirements or tightening eligibility requirements for ACA subsidies, I think what that's going to do is increase the number of consumers who need to be matched with carriers and brokers who can offer them the right set of plans depending on their life situation and their financial situation.

我認為，隨著川普政府最近做出的改變，取消了數百萬人的醫療補助計劃，並製定了資格要求或收緊了 ACA 補貼的資格要求，我認為這將會增加需要與保險公司和經紀人匹配的消費者數量，這些保險公司和經紀人可以根據消費者的生活狀況和財務狀況為他們提供合適的計劃。

So we still see an opportunity there and believe that we can operate in this space with the constraints that we have under the terms of the settlement agreement. And we look forward to really building on this with a great team that we have in that space and seeing what we can do to really serve consumers and advertisers in a better way than we did before.

因此，我們仍然看到了機會，並相信我們可以在和解協議條款的限制下在這個領域開展業務。我們期待與我們在該領域的優秀團隊一起在此基礎上進一步發展，並看看我們能做些什麼來以比以前更好的方式真正服務消費者和廣告商。

Got it. That's very helpful. I appreciate all the color. And then just on P&C, I think you called out sort of continued strength in carrier spend in the second half. I mean, still given sort of the uncertainty around tariffs and inflation, could you maybe give us a little bit more color sort of on key variables around carrier budgets in the back half of the year and maybe into next year?

知道了。這非常有幫助。我欣賞所有的色彩。然後就財產和意外保險而言，我認為您指出了下半年承運人支出將繼續保持強勁勢頭。我的意思是，考慮到關稅和通貨膨脹的不確定性，您能否給我們更多關於今年下半年乃至明年航空公司預算的關鍵變數的資訊？

Yeah. I mean, I think for that time period that you're talking about, the back half of this year and the early part of this year, we're very optimistic about carrier budgets. So I think overall, let me just start with where the industry is. And the industry -- the underlying dynamics of the industry are still outstanding.

是的。我的意思是，我認為對於您所說的那段時期，即今年下半年和年初，我們對運營商預算非常樂觀。所以我認為總的來說，讓我先從行業現狀開始。而且該行業——該行業的潛在動力仍然突出。

The underlying profitability is strong in the personal auto space, meaning combined ratios for a lot of the carriers, particularly the leading carriers, are actually lower than or better than, right, long-term targets. And so what that's led to is strong advertising investments in Q2 as you saw from our results. And as you see from our guidance for Q3, we expect very strong budgets to continue into the next quarter.

個人汽車領域的潛在獲利能力很強，這意味著許多保險公司，特別是領先的保險公司的綜合比率實際上低於或優於長期目標。因此，正如您從我們的結果中看到的那樣，這導致了第二季度強勁的廣告投資。正如您從我們對第三季的預測中看到的，我們預計強勁的預算將持續到下個季度。

We certainly expect this trend to continue for the remainder of the year and beyond. In terms of automotive tariffs, I mean, certainly, I don't want to dismiss those out of hand. I think a lot of carriers are still taking a bit of a wait-and-see approach. But I think as the second quarter progressed, I think what we saw was that profitability within the auto insurance industry held up very well.

我們當然預計這一趨勢將在今年剩餘時間及以後持續下去。就汽車關稅而言，我當然不想輕易否定它。我認為許多業者仍採取觀望態度。但我認為隨著第二季的進展，我們看到汽車保險業的獲利能力保持得非常好。

And I think that's led to a lot of carriers really having the growing confidence that the inflationary impact of the automotive tariffs were looking increasingly manageable. And so again, as we reminded everyone last quarter, the carriers are sort of on the heels of what was a generationally hard market.

我認為這使得許多業者真正越來越有信心，認為汽車關稅帶來的通膨影響看起來越來越可控。正如我們上個季度提醒大家的那樣，營運商正處於一代人以來最艱難的市場困境之中。

So I think that they're especially attuned to inflationary pressures that could start to affect the results. But again, since our call last quarter, I think what we've seen is really positive in terms of the ongoing profitability of insurance carriers. And again, I think the growing consensus that the industry can absorb some of the single-digit inflationary impacts that we can foresee from the automotive tariffs.

因此我認為他們特別關注可能開始影響結果的通膨壓力。但自從上個季度電話會議以來，我認為我們所看到的保險公司的持續盈利能力確實非常積極。而且，我認為越來越多的人一致認為，汽車產業可以吸收汽車關稅帶來的一些個位數通膨影響。

That's very helpful. Thanks so much.

這非常有幫助。非常感謝。

Thanks, Maria.

謝謝，瑪麗亞。

Tommy McJoynt, KBW.

湯米·麥克喬伊特，KBW。

Hi, it's [Jane], on for Tommy. Thank you for taking my question. My first question is on the P&C side. You mentioned that P&C transaction value grew 71% year over year, driven by sustained demand from leading carriers and also growing partner base. Can you provide some more color on the mix between existing carrier spend increases versus new carrier additions? Thank you.

嗨，我是 [Jane]，接替 Tommy。感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於財產險和意外險方面的。您提到，受領先保險公司持續需求以及合作夥伴基礎不斷擴大的推動，財產和意外險交易價值年增 71%。您能否提供更多關於現有營運商支出增加與新營運商增加的詳細資訊？謝謝。

Yeah, happy to -- this is Pat. Happy to answer that. I would say that on the carrier side, the vast majority of the increase in spend was from existing carriers. And that's not to say we didn't have any new ones come in. It's just the typical trajectory we see with a new carrier is when they come in, they start small.

是的，很高興——我是帕特。很高興回答這個問題。我想說，在營運商方面，支出成長的絕大部分來自現有營運商。這並不是說我們沒有新客戶加入。我們看到的新營運商的典型發展軌跡是，當它們進入時，它們從小規模開始。

And so the growth we saw on the carrier side in the quarter was really driven primarily by the head, so the couple of biggest carriers. And that's a trend we're seeing kind of continue into Q3. Moving to the other side, on the supplier, the publisher side, I would say we've been gaining share pretty consistently for the last five, six quarters. That's a trend we think will continue to -- will continue.

因此，我們在本季度看到的運營商方面的增長實際上主要是由頭部運營商（也就是幾家最大的運營商）推動的。我們看到這種趨勢將持續到第三季。另一方面，從供應商、出版商的角度來看，我想說，過去五、六個季度以來，我們的市佔率一直在穩定成長。我們認為這種趨勢將會持續下去。

And I would say we've been gaining share of wallet with existing shared partners, and we've been winning some exclusive partners as well. And both of those, we think, are testaments to the technology we have, the account management we have, the overall monetization capabilities of our offering. And we feel very optimistic about that trend continuing in the future as well.

我想說的是，我們已經從現有的共享合作夥伴那裡獲得了錢包份額，我們也贏得了一些獨家合作夥伴。我們認為，這兩者都證明了我們擁有的技術、我們擁有的帳戶管理以及我​​們提供的產品的整體貨幣化能力。我們對這一趨勢在未來的持續發展感到非常樂觀。

Got it. Thank you. My second question is on -- so I guess, some of the transaction value was driven by new supply partner and then kind of offset by a modest take rate compression. I'm just wondering like what's your strategy to optimize this trade-off between volume growth and profitability as you scale?

知道了。謝謝。我的第二個問題是——所以我猜，部分交易價值是由新的供應夥伴推動的，然後被適度的接受率壓縮所抵消。我只是想知道，隨著規模的擴大，您採用什麼策略來優化銷售成長和獲利能力之間的權衡？

Yeah, I'll take a first crack at that. Well, I think right now, we're still optimizing for market share and transaction value. What that's doing is creating a lot more transaction within our marketplace, giving us a lot more data that we can use to optimize -- spend on behalf of our major carrier partners.

是的，我會先試試看。嗯，我認為現在我們仍在優化市場份額和交易價值。這樣做的目的是在我們的市場中創造更多的交易，為我們提供更多數據，我們可以利用這些數據來優化——代表我們的主要營運商合作夥伴進行支出。

And so I do think that in the upcoming quarters, right, as the turn from a hard market environment to a soft market environment really settles, I think you will see us start to optimize more for gross profit going forward. And I believe that with the data that we have and the market share that we have, that we'll be able to do that better than anyone else in the industry.

因此，我確實認為，在接下來的幾個季度中，隨著從硬市場環境到軟市場環境的轉變真正穩定下來，我認為你會看到我們開始進一步優化未來的毛利。我相信，憑藉我們擁有的數據和市場份額，我們能夠比業內任何其他人做得更好。

Got it. Thank you. That's helpful. Appreciate the color.

知道了。謝謝。這很有幫助。欣賞顏色。

Thanks for the questions.

謝謝你的提問。

Michael Zaremski, BMO Capital Markets.

Michael Zaremski，BMO 資本市場。

Hey, good evening. This is [Jack], on for Mike. Just a follow-up on kind of the margin outlook and the adjusted EBITDA outlook. Is the result this quarter and kind of the change going forward mostly attributable to the under-65 business being smaller?

嘿，晚上好。我是 [Jack]，代替 Mike。只是對利潤率前景和調整後的 EBITDA 前景的後續關注。本季的結果以及未來的變化是否主要歸因於 65 歲以下業務規模較小？

And you just talked about some of the new supply partner wins in the P&C side, too. Just any additional color on the margin profile of those relative to your existing business? And maybe just a way for us to think about EBITDA margins and how those might trend over time?

您剛才也談到了財產和意外險方面一些新的供應合作夥伴的勝利。與您現有的業務相關的利潤概況上還有其他顏色嗎？這也許只是我們思考 EBITDA 利潤率及其隨時間變化趨勢的一種方式？

Yeah. And this is Pat here. I would say we really think about two margins when we manage our business. The first of those is take rate, which for us is contribution divided by transaction value. And we've seen some compression there over the -- between Q1 and Q2.

是的。這是帕特。我想說，我們在管理業務時確實考慮了兩個利潤。第一個是佣金率，對我們來說，它是貢獻除以交易價值。我們看到第一季和第二季之間出現了一些壓縮。

And the primary driver of that compression is that under-65 is a smaller portion of the mix, and it's a lower-margin business. And we've given some detail in our shareholder's letter to that effect, so you can see that. I would say within P&C, we've seen a bit of take rate compression there. And that really has been driven by two different things.

造成這種壓縮的主要原因是 65 歲以下人口比例較小，而且利潤率較低。我們在股東信中提供了一些詳細信息，因此您可以看到這一點。我想說，在財產和意外險領域，我們看到了一點收費率壓縮。這實際上是由兩件不同的事情推動的。

One is the spend is shifting a bit private and which is more or less code for its shifting to the very top carriers there. And so that's one driver. And then the second piece -- Steve touched on this in the last question actually -- which is we've onboarded on the supply side, in particular, one nice new partner that was at lower-than-average take rates. And so once again, it's profit dollar positive, but it was negative in terms of impact on the overall take rate.

一是支出正在向私人化方向轉移，這或多或少意味著支出將轉向最頂級的營運商。這就是一個驅動因素。然後是第二部分——史蒂夫實際上在最後一個問題中提到了這一點——我們在供應方面已經加入了一個非常好的新合作夥伴，其接受率低於平均水平。因此，再一次，這對利潤來說是正面的，但對整體利潤率的影響卻是負面的。

And then talking about the second margin that we focus on, that is kind of how we convert contribution to EBITDA. And we've seen that number trend upwards very nicely year over year for a while now, and that's a trend that we feel good about. And efficiency is in our DNA. We ended the quarter with 148 employees, and we will always be laser-focused on running this business as efficiently and as intelligently as possible.

然後談論我們關注的第二個利潤，那就是我們如何將貢獻轉化為 EBITDA。一段時間以來，我們看到這個數字逐年呈現良好上升趨勢，我們對這一趨勢感到滿意。效率是我們的 DNA。本季末，我們擁有 148 名員工，我們將始終專注於盡可能有效率、智慧地經營這項業務。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ben Hendrix, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Ben Hendrix。

Hi, this is Michael Murray, on for Ben. Congrats on the FTC settlement. With shares trading at depressed levels relative to your historical levels and then also the company having pretty modest leverage levels, could you provide your thoughts on your capital structure and the potential for share repurchases?

大家好，我是麥可·默里，代替本。恭喜您與聯邦貿易委員會達成和解。由於股票交易價格相對於歷史水準處於低位，而且公司的槓桿水平也相當適中，您能否談談對資本結構和股票回購潛力的看法？

Yeah. This is Pat here. I'm happy to talk to that. I would say that we are long-term shareholders of the stock, and we're definitely focused on driving long-term returns. I would say we're in a spot where we've got $45 million of cash that are going to be going out the door in the next three to four months, depending on timing of court approvals for the FTC settlement.

是的。我是帕特。我很高興談論這個。我想說，我們是該股票的長期股東，我們絕對專注於推動長期回報。我想說的是，我們目前有 4500 萬美元的現金，這些現金將在未來三到四個月內流出，具體取決於法院批准聯邦貿易委員會和解協議的時間。

So that will be a big short-term use of cash. We're a business that is generating cash at a pretty good clip right now, and that's a trend that we think will continue. And we think we've got some nice flexibility going forward to invest in the business, both organically and potentially inorganically, and also to reduce debt and/or return capital to shareholders.

因此，這將是短期內大量現金的使用。我們公司目前正以相當快的速度創造現金，而且我們認為這種趨勢將會持續下去。我們認為，我們在未來擁有良好的靈活性，可以對業務進行投資，包括有機投資和潛在的無機投資，也可以減少債務和/或向股東返還資本。

I would say we don't have any firm targets or commitments on that. I think the one thing I can say is that we are all about deploying capital intelligently and putting it to the best use possible to drive long-term returns.

我想說我們對此沒有任何明確的目標或承諾。我想我可以說的一件事是，我們都致力於明智地部署資本，並盡可能地利用資本來推動長期回報。

Okay. And then just shifting gears, I'm curious to hear your expectations for AEP. Peers have indicated there may be some pullback in benefits, and brokers believe this could lead to shopping -- increased shopping behavior. So curious how you feel your platform is positioned if there is, in fact, increased shopping behavior.

好的。然後換個話題，我很好奇想聽聽您對 AEP 的期望。同行表示福利可能會減少，經紀人認為這可能會導致購物行為的增加。所以我很好奇，如果購物行為確實增加了，您覺得您的平台定位如何。

Yeah. I'll address the first part of that, and Pat can jump in as well. I mean, I think we do anticipate there'll be increased shopping behavior. I think there'll be a bit of a churn in the marketplace, as a lot of the Medicare Advantage carriers actually rebalance their coverage or their portfolio mix and actually drop plans from a lot of geographies. And I think that's going to lead a lot of consumers to shop around.

是的。我將討論第一部分，Pat 也可以加入。我的意思是，我認為我們確實預計購物行為會增加。我認為市場會出現一些波動，因為許多醫療保險優勢計劃的承運商實際上會重新平衡他們的覆蓋範圍或投資組合，並實際上會放棄許多地區的計劃。我認為這會讓很多消費者貨比三家。

In addition to that, I think you're going to see some repricing and the dropping of benefits or the adding of benefits, which again is going to create a bit of churn or consumer churn in the marketplace. And so I think that's one part of the equation that, I think, bodes well.

除此之外，我認為你會看到一些重新定價和福利的減少或增加，這又會在市場上造成一些客戶流失。所以我認為這是等式中一個好兆頭的一部分。

But at the other side of it is, I think really the Medicare Advantage carriers', I think, inherent conservatism coming into this upcoming AEP. I think what you've seen is a couple of pioneers, '24 and '25 pioneers, and they haven't done so well. And so even though with Medicare Advantage, you can reprice and change your benefits on an annual basis.

但另一方面，我認為醫療保險優勢計劃的承運商在即將到來的 AEP 中確實具有固有的保守主義。我認為你所看到的是一些先​​驅者，24 年和 25 年的先驅者，他們的表現並不好。因此，即使擁有醫療保險優勢計劃，您也可以每年重新定價和更改您的福利。

And our expectation is that the pricing is something right now that you feel comfortable with. I think because of the churn and some of the unexpected consumers they may get coming into their products as well as some uncertainty about the upcoming medical loss ratios, I think it's going to lead a lot of demand in our marketplace, namely the willingness of the Medicare Advantage carriers to spend to acquire new customers, be a bit muted coming into this AEP.

我們期望現在的定價能讓您感到滿意。我認為，由於客戶流失和一些意想不到的消費者可能會購買他們的產品，以及即將到來的醫療損失率的一些不確定性，我認為這將導致我們市場出現大量需求，即醫療保險優勢保險公司願意花錢來獲取新客戶，但在進入這個 AEP 時，這種意願會有些低迷。

So in summary, I think there will be a lot of consumer shopping behavior. But what we're anticipating is that the carrier budgets going into this AEP will be lighter than previous years.

所以綜合來說，我認為會有很多消費者的購物行為。但我們預計，營運商投入本次 AEP 的預算將比前幾年少。

Yeah. And I would probably add one thing to what Steve said there, which is -- our -- the demand profile for us in Medicare Advantage, it's a blend of carriers and brokers. And I would say the carriers definitely are -- their belts are pretty tight right now.

是的。我可能會對史蒂夫所說的內容補充一點，那就是——我們對醫療保險優勢計劃的需求概況是承運人和經紀人的混合體。我想說的是，運營商現在肯定過得很拮据。

I think the brokers are doing maybe a bit better on average, and there may be a bit more willingness there. And so I think the net trend is not looking great in Medicare, but we do have demand from the broker side, which looks to be hanging in a bit better than the carrier side.

我認為經紀人的平均表現可能要好一些，而且他們的意願可能也更強一些。因此，我認為醫療保險的淨趨勢看起來不太好，但我們確實有來自經紀人方面的需求，這看起來比承運人方面要好一些。

Okay. That's really helpful. Thank you so much.

好的。這真的很有幫助。太感謝了。

Thanks.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) If there are no more questions, I will now conclude our Q&A session. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining, and you may now disconnect.

（操作員指示）如果沒有其他問題，我現在將結束我們的問答環節。女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入，現在可以斷開連線了。