Mediaalpha Inc (MAX) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Hermi. I would like to welcome everyone to the MediaAlpha first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持。我的名字是赫爾米。歡迎大家參加 MediaAlpha 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）

I will now turn the call over to Alex Liloia, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話轉給投資者關係部的 Alex Liloia。請繼續。

Thanks, Hermi. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. With me are Co-Founder and CEO, Steven Yi; and CFO, Pat Thomson.

謝謝，赫米。下午好，感謝您加入我們。和我一起的是共同創辦人兼執行長 Steven Yi；和財務長 Pat Thomson。

On today's call, we'll make forward-looking statements relating to our business and outlook for future financial results, including our financial guidance for the second quarter of 2025. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. Please refer to our SEC filings, including our annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q for a fuller explanation of those risks and uncertainties and the limits applicable to forward-looking statements.

在今天的電話會議上，我們將就我們的業務和未來財務業績展望做出前瞻性陳述，包括我們對 2025 年第二季的財務指引。這些前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果大不相同。請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括 10-K 表年度報告和 10-Q 表季度報告，以獲得對這些風險和不確定性以及適用於前瞻性陳述的限制的更全面解釋。

All the forward-looking statements we made on this call reflect our assumptions and beliefs as of today, and we disclaim any obligation to update such statements, except as required by law.

我們在本次電話會議上所做的所有前瞻性陳述均反映了我們截至今天的假設和信念，除非法律要求，否則我們不承擔更新此類陳述的任何義務。

Today's discussion will include non-GAAP financial measures, which are not a substitute for GAAP results. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to the corresponding GAAP measures can be found in our press release and shareholder letter issued today, which are available on the Investor Relations section of our website.

今天的討論將包括非 GAAP 財務指標，它們不能取代 GAAP 結果。這些非 GAAP 財務指標與相應 GAAP 指標的對帳可以在我們今天發布的新聞稿和股東信中找到，這些新聞稿和信件可在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。

I'll now turn the call over to Steve.

我現在將電話轉給史蒂夫。

Thanks, Alex. Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us. 2025 is off to an outstanding start as we delivered record first quarter financial results that exceeded our guidance across all key performance metrics. Our strong results were driven by continued strength in our P&C insurance vertical, supported by robust growth investment from several carriers and a solid underlying profitability in the personal auto insurance sector.

謝謝，亞歷克斯。大家好。感謝您加入我們。 2025 年開局良好，我們第一季的財務表現創下了紀錄，所有關鍵績效指標都超出我們的預期。我們的強勁業績得益於財產和意外保險垂直領域的持續強勁表現，以及多家保險公司強勁的成長投資和個人汽車保險領域穩健的潛在獲利能力。

While automotive tariff developments may put pressure on profitability as the year progresses, we anticipate continued near-term momentum and another strong quarter for our core [T&D business]. In our Health Insurance vertical, our first quarter performance was in line with expectations. Going forward, we've made the strategic decision to scale back certain areas of our under-65 business as we continue to shift our focus to Medicare Advantage, a large and growing market where we believe we have a strong competitive position.

儘管隨著時間的推移，汽車關稅的發展可能會對獲利能力造成壓力，但我們預計近期仍將保持成長勢頭，並迎來另一個強勁的季度。在我們的健康保險垂直領域，我們第一季的業績符合預期。展望未來，我們做出了策略決策，縮減 65 歲以下業務的某些領域，同時繼續將重點轉向醫療保險優勢 (Medicare Advantage)，這是一個龐大且不斷增長的市場，我們相信我們在該市場擁有強大的競爭地位。

With regard to the FTC matter, we continue to engage in constructive dialogue with the FTC staff in an effort to work towards a reasonable resolution. In connection with these evolving discussions, we increased our reserve related to this matter by $5 million, bringing the total reserve to $12 million at the end of the quarter.

關於聯邦貿易委員會的問題，我們將繼續與聯邦貿易委員會工作人員進行建設性對話，並努力尋求合理的解決方案。隨著這些討論的不斷深入，我們將與此事相關的儲備金增加了 500 萬美元，使本季末的總儲備金達到 1,200 萬美元。

While we cannot predict the outcome, we remain committed to resolving the FTC's claims in a manner that's in the best long-term interest of our shareholders. Looking ahead, we remain bullish on our near-term outlook for auto insurance advertising spend. While the upcoming automotive tariffs has the potential to negatively affect the industry, carriers by and large are highly profitable at this time and are ready to react quickly by adjusting rates if needed.

雖然我們無法預測結果，但我們仍致力於以符合股東長期利益的方式解決聯邦貿易委員會的索賠。展望未來，我們仍看好汽車保險廣告支出的近期前景。雖然即將實施的汽車關稅可能會對行業產生負面影響，但目前運輸公司整體利潤較高，並準備在必要時透過調整費率迅速做出反應。

We're staying closely connected with our partners and remain focused on delivering high returns on advertising spend, and providing performance-driven marketing solutions that help them succeed through different macroeconomic conditions.

我們與合作夥伴保持密切聯繫，繼續專注於提供高廣告支出回報，並提供以績效為導向的行銷解決方案，幫助他們在不同的宏觀經濟條件下取得成功。

With that, I'll hand it over to Pat for a deeper dive into our first quarter performance and second quarter guidance.

說完這些，我將把話題交給帕特，讓他更深入地探討我們第一季的業績和第二季的指引。

Thanks, Steve. I'll start by walking through the drivers of our Q1 results, which beat expectations. Transaction value for Q1 was $473 million, up 116% year over year, driven by 200% year-over-year growth in our P&C vertical. P&C transaction value was up sequentially, above expectations, as several carriers meaningfully increased marketing investments in March. Transaction value in our Health vertical was down 17% year over year in line with expectations.

謝謝，史蒂夫。我將首先介紹我們第一季業績超出預期的驅動因素。第一季的交易價值為 4.73 億美元，年增 116%，這得益於我們的 P&C 垂直業務年增 200%。由於幾家保險公司在 3 月大幅增加了行銷投資，財產保險和意外險交易額環比增長，超出預期。我們健康垂直領域的交易價值年減 17%，符合預期。

Q1 adjusted EBITDA doubled year over year to $29.4 million, representing 67% of contribution, up from 52% in the prior year. Q1 adjusted EBITDA included $6.9 million of addbacks related to the FTC matter. These consisted of $1.9 million of legal expenses, along with an additional $5 million reserve recorded in accordance with US GAAP requirements. We also recognized the $13.4 million charge to write off certain intangible assets acquired as part of the DHT acquisition.

第一季調整後的 EBITDA 年成長一倍至 2,940 萬美元，貢獻率為 67%，高於上年的 52%。第一季調整後的 EBITDA 包括與 FTC 事宜相關的 690 萬美元的加回。其中包括 190 萬美元的法律費用，以及根據美國 GAAP 要求記錄的額外 500 萬美元儲備金。我們也確認了 1,340 萬美元的費用，用於註銷作為 DHT 收購的一部分而獲得的某些無形資產。

Additionally, we have decided to exit the travel vertical by the end of the second quarter, which contributed approximately $1 million of transaction value and $100,000 of profit in Q1.

此外，我們決定在第二季末退出旅遊垂直產業，該產業在第一季貢獻了約 100 萬美元的交易價值和 10 萬美元的利潤。

Looking forward to Q2, we have seen continued strength in P&C carrier marketing investments, particularly among those maintaining profit margins at or above their target levels. Accordingly, we expect P&C transaction value levels to grow approximately 65% to 75% year over year.

展望第二季度，我們看到財產和意外傷害保險公司的行銷投資持續保持強勁，尤其是那些將利潤率保持在目標水平或以上的保險公司。因此，我們預計財產和意外保險交易價值水準將年增約 65% 至 75%。

In our Health vertical, we expect transaction value to be down 25% to 30% year over year, is improving trends in Medicare were more than offset by a significant decline in under-65 as we scale back parts of that business. We expect Medicare to account for over 40% of our Health verticals transaction value for the quarter.

在我們的健康垂直領域，我們預期交易價值將年減 25% 至 30%，由於我們縮減了部分業務，醫療保險的改善趨勢被 65 歲以下人群的大幅下降所抵消。我們預計醫療保險將佔本季健康垂直交易價值的 40% 以上。

Moving to our consolidated financial guidance. We expect Q2 transaction value to be between $470 million and $495 million, a year-over-year increase of 50% at the midpoint. We expect revenue to be between $235 million and $255 million, a year-over-year increase of 37% at the midpoint.

轉向我們的合併財務指引。我們預計第二季交易額將在 4.7 億美元至 4.95 億美元之間，年比中位數成長 50%。我們預計營收將在 2.35 億美元至 2.55 億美元之間，年增 37%。

We expect adjusted EBITDA to be between $25 million and $27 million, a year-over-year increase of 39% at the midpoint. We expect overhead to increase sequentially by approximately $500,000 to $1 million as we continue to selectively add head count to support and drive growth.

我們預計調整後的 EBITDA 將在 2,500 萬美元至 2,700 萬美元之間，中位數年增 39%。我們預計管理費用將連續增加約 50 萬至 100 萬美元，因為我們將繼續有選擇地增加員工人數以支持和推動成長。

We generated significant cash flow and made solid progress in deleveraging our balance sheet during the quarter. Cash flow was $20 million, and we ended the quarter with approximately $64 million of cash, and a net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio of less than 1x. Moving forward, we expect to convert a significant portion of adjusted EBITDA into unlevered free cash flow due to the operating efficiencies in our business, including minimal capital expenditures and low working capital needs.

本季度，我們產生了大量現金流，並在資產負債表去槓桿方面取得了堅實的進展。現金流為 2000 萬美元，本季末我們的現金約為 6,400 萬美元，淨債務與調整後 EBITDA 比率不到 1 倍。展望未來，由於我們業務的營運效率（包括最低的資本支出和較低的營運資本需求），我們預計調整後的 EBITDA 的很大一部分將轉化為無槓桿自由現金流。

With that, operator, we are ready for the first question.

接線員，這樣我們就準備好回答第一個問題了。

Maria Ripps, Canaccord.

瑪麗亞·里普斯（Maria Ripps），Canaccord。

Congrats on the strong quarter. Well, thanks for all the color on the P&C vertical in the shareholder letter, and it looks like the strength is continuing in Q2. I know you're not providing full year guidance, but any additional color maybe you can share on how tariff spends may play out in the second half of the year, especially given tariffs? I guess is there anything sort of you're seeing in [CARE] behavior that gives you any early maybe indications? Or what are some sort of maybe considerations here to keep in mind?

恭喜本季業績強勁。好吧，感謝股東信中對財產和意外傷害垂直業務的詳細描述，看起來這種強勁勢頭將在第二季度繼續延續。我知道您沒有提供全年指導，但您能否分享一些有關下半年關稅支出可能如何發展的額外信息，尤其是在關稅的情況下？我想您在 [CARE] 行為中看到的某些東西是否能為您提供任何早期可能的跡象？或者這裡可能需要記住哪些注意事項？

Maria, it's Steve. Thanks for your question. I think we continue to believe that overall, the auto insurance marketplace remains very well positioned for a period of sustained growth. I mean I think that our optimism for this space, right, it really goes back to the underlying profitability that we continue to see remaining very strong in the auto sector, right? There are carriers who are not just at good profitability rates.

瑪麗亞，我是史蒂夫。謝謝你的提問。我認為我們仍然相信，總體而言，汽車保險市場仍處於持續成長的有利地位。我的意思是，我認為我們對這個領域的樂觀態度實際上可以追溯到我們繼續看到汽車行業保持強勁的潛在盈利能力，對嗎？有些承運商不僅僅擁有良好的盈利率。

I think they have some carriers who are even above or better than their long-term profitability goals. And I think that really bodes well right, what the coming quarters will bring in terms of the investment from these carriers into growth and customer acquisition. We do see, I think, quarter by quarter, the market is gradually entering into a period of heightened competition.

我認為有些業者的獲利能力甚至高於或優於他們的長期獲利目標。我認為這確實是一個好兆頭，未來幾季這些營運商將在成長和客戶獲取方面投入更多資金。我認為，我們確實看到，市場正在逐漸進入競爭加劇的時期。

We are seeing new carriers, I think, every quarter who are really shifting from rate taking and profitability focus to gross customer acquisition focus, right? And so you're seeing the recovery and the participation on the demand side in our marketplace, becoming more broad-based, I think, every quarter.

我認為，每個季度我們都會看到新的運營商真正從關注費率和盈利能力轉向關注總客戶獲取，對嗎？因此，您將看到我們市場需求的復甦和參與度在每個季度都變得更加廣泛。

I think one thing that bodes well for longer-term growth as the year progresses, is that with everything that I've just said, there's still top 10 carriers who we really don't believe are touching nearly where they should be in terms of the rest in this channel, whether you measure that based on the historical levels of spend, or just their overall market position. But with that said, I think all of these carriers -- I mean, we're really happy with where we are with our partnerships with these carriers because of the level of integration that we have with them, I think the level of sophistication that they have with the internal marketing teams and their knowledge of this channel.

我認為，隨著時間的推移，有一件事預示著長期增長，那就是，儘管我剛才說了這麼多，但我們認為排名前 10 的運營商仍然沒有達到該渠道其他運營商應有的水平，無論你是根據歷史支出水平還是僅根據他們的整體市場地位來衡量。但話雖如此，我認為所有這些運營商——我的意思是，我們對與這些運營商的合作現狀感到非常滿意，因為我們與他們的整合程度，我認為他們的內部營銷團隊的複雜程度以及他們對這個渠道的了解。

And the product development discussions that were happening with them, I think, positions them very well to be able to grow through the remainder of this year and next year as they continue the secular shift to emphasizing direct-to-consumer distribution, whether in place of agent-based distribution, or in addition to agent-based distribution. So no, I think the only sort of dark lining I think, in the silver cloud is the potential for these automotive tariffs to put some headwinds in carrier profitability in the second half of this year and next year.

我認為，與他們進行的產品開發討論將使他們能夠在今年剩餘時間和明年實現增長，因為他們將繼續長期轉向強調直接面向消費者的分銷，無論是代替基於代理的分銷，還是補充基於代理的分銷。所以，我認為，唯一的陰暗面是，這些汽車關稅可能會在今年下半年和明年對營運商的獲利能力造成一些阻力。

And so I think you're already hearing from the carriers who are focused on this issue, right. That it's a little bit too early to tell exactly what the impact would be. But I think you're also seeing a consensus on a couple of things. One is that a lot of the carriers are in a pretty good state right now. And so they have a bit of buffer for loss rates to actually go up.

所以我想你已經聽到了關注這個問題的運營商的聲音，對吧。現在判斷其具體影響還為時過早。但我認為你也會看到在一些事情上達成共識。一是目前很多航空公司的狀況都很好。因此，他們對實際上升的損失率有一定的緩衝。

I think the second thing that you're seeing and hearing is that the impact of these automotive tariffs will be relatively moderate. And I think what we're seeing is estimates of between low to mid-single digits, right, that we expect to see layering in the second half of this year. And we believe that the carriers are pretty well positioned to react quickly to these rate increases -- or I'm sorry, to the loss cost increases by filing for rate increases, I think, pretty early in the cycle.

我認為您看到和聽到的第二件事是這些汽車關稅的影響將相對溫和。我認為，我們看到的是介於低到中等個位數之間的估計值，對吧，我們預計今年下半年會出現分層。我們相信，承運商完全有能力對這些費率上漲做出快速反應——或者很抱歉，對損失成本增加做出反應，我認為，在周期的早期就申請提高費率。

And I say that because the carriers are all coming from a period of sustained unprofitability and I think remain very acutely aware of the need to react quickly to address any profitability concerns that start to pop up. And so I think for all of these reasons, we think that impact of automotive tariffs that we expect to see in the back half of this year and in 2026, we'll generally be manageable by the overall industry, and that the industry is going to continue to invest in customer acquisition and growth during this period. But it's something that we'll obviously keep a very close eye on and continue to update with you in upcoming quarters.

我之所以這麼說，是因為所有航空公司都經歷了一段持續無利可圖的時期，我認為他們仍然非常敏銳地意識到需要迅速做出反應，以解決開始出現的任何盈利問題。因此，我認為，出於所有這些原因，我們認為預計在今年下半年和 2026 年看到的汽車關稅的影響，總體上將由整個行業來管理，並且該行業將在此期間繼續投資於客戶獲取和增長。但我們顯然會密切關注此事，並在接下來的幾季繼續向您通報最新情況。

Great. That's very helpful. And then just a quick follow-up. Can you maybe refresh us on key dynamics across your open and private marketplaces? And maybe just talk about kind of the reasons of benefits or maybe the use case is a carrier would opt to use a private marketplace?

偉大的。這非常有幫助。然後只是快速的跟進。您能否向我們介紹開放和私人市場中的關鍵動態？也許只是談論一下好處的原因，或者用例是運營商會選擇使用私人市場？

Yes. And so I think with the private marketplaces, I think that's a product offering that we have that's primarily designed for our largest publishers and their ability to work directly with our largest advertisers. So it really covers the minority of the relationships that we create through our marketplace as we get a broader base of demand and I think a broader base of supply coming into the marketplace, as the current, I think, growth cycle continues.

是的。因此，我認為私人市場是我們推出的產品，主要針對我們最大的出版商以及他們與我們最大的廣告商直接合作的能力而設計的。因此，它實際上涵蓋了我們透過市場建立的少數關係，因為我們獲得了更廣泛的需求基礎，我認為更廣泛的供應基礎進入市場，因為當前的成長週期仍在繼續。

I think you're going to see more and more transactions really move from the seller exchange -- or that move from the seller exchange. So are you going to see more of these transactions really happen in the open exchange, because, again, the seller exchange product that we have, where parties can contract directly can pay us a platform fee for making that connection to our marketplace is really meant for large publishers connecting directly with large advertisers.

我認為你會看到越來越多的交易真正從賣方交易所轉移——或者從賣方交易所轉移。那麼，你會看到更多這樣的交易真的發生在公開交易中嗎？因為我們擁有的賣方交易產品，各方可以直接簽訂合同，可以向我們支付平台費，以建立與我們市場的聯繫，這實際上是為大型出版商直接與大型廣告商聯繫而設計的。

And this is Pat. I just wanted to add one thing to what Steve said there, which is that I think if you think about the open to private mix in our business, it's important to think about the vertical mix that we have as well. And so for us, historically, P&C is -- had a higher mix of private marketplace than has held.

這是帕特。我只是想對史蒂夫所說的內容補充一點，那就是我認為如果你考慮我們業務中的開放與私人混合，那麼考慮我們擁有的垂直混合也很重要。因此，對我們來說，從歷史上看，財產和意外保險的私人市場組合比以往更高。

And one of the things that we have seen is that, for instance, if we win a big partner, that partner may be relatively more private and can shift the numbers a little bit in one direction. And so I think everything Steve said is correct, which, over time, we would expect to see -- we would expect to see more of the business going open in the short term, I wouldn't be surprised if it went a little bit more private.

我們看到的情況之一是，例如，如果我們贏得一個大合作夥伴，該合作夥伴可能相對更加私密，並且可以將數字稍微向一個方向轉變。所以我認為史蒂夫說的一切都是正確的，隨著時間的推移，我們期望看到——我們期望看到更多的業務在短期內開放，如果它變得更加私密，我不會感到驚訝。

Cory Carpenter, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的科里·卡彭特。

I had two. Maybe first just speaking on P&C. Steve, you said last quarter that pricing was down to start the year. It sounds like I picked back up again in March. Just curious what you can change specifically in March?

我有兩個。也許首先只談論財產和意外傷害。史蒂夫，你上個季度說過，年初的價格已經下降。聽起來我三月又恢復狀態了。只是好奇你在三月具體能改變什麼？

And then secondly, on the Health business. Could you just talk more about your decision to scale back the under-65 business? How much of that is kind of due to business conditions -- or because that have also perhaps be relating to some of the FTC changes?

其次，關於健康業務。能否詳細談談縮減 65 歲以下業務的決定？其中有多少是由於商業條件所致 - 或者因為這也可能與聯邦貿易委員會的一些變化有關？

Cory, I'll address the first part of that question, which is -- I don't know that anything really, I think, changed in March. I think what we saw was, I think, strong demand from carriers as the quarter progressed, really manifesting itself in terms of having greater budget, right, access to greater budget as the quarter progressed. I think the reason for this is really just what we pointed to in the last quarter, which is less of a change in the underlying, I think, economics and the growth demand that we're seeing from carriers.

科里，我來回答這個問題的第一部分，那就是——我不知道三月是否真的有什麼變化。我認為，隨著本季的進展，我們看到營運商的需求強勁，這實際上體現在擁有更多預算，隨著本季的進展，獲得更多預算。我認為造成這種情況的原因實際上正如我們在上個季度所指出的那樣，即基本經濟狀況的變化以及我們從營運商看到的成長需求的變化較小。

It was really just, I think, the conservatism that we saw from carriers as the year started coming on the heels, I think, of a Q4 where there was a heavy amount of spend in customer acquisition. And as we alluded to, because the numbers were coming in so strongly for most carriers, I think there was a bit of more aggressive customer acquisition spend as we saw Q4 closed out.

我認為，這實際上只是我們在年初看到的營運商的保守態度，我認為，第四季度在客戶獲取方面投入了大量資金。正如我們所提到的，由於大多數營運商的數據都非常強勁，我認為在第四季度結束時，他們在客戶獲取方面的支出會更加積極。

And I think as a result of that, a lot of carriers took a bit of a more conservative position to start out the year. And I think the fact that we got allocated more budget and we saw greater participation from carriers as the quarter progressed, was really that in beginning of your conservatism really starting to wear off and we certainly see in the strength that we saw in March really continue into Q2, which is embedded in our forecast.

我認為，由於這個原因，許多航空公司在年初採取了更保守的立場。我認為，隨著季度的進展，我們獲得了更多的預算，並且我們看到運營商的參與度有所提高，這實際上表明，一開始你的保守情緒確實開始消退，我們當然看到 3 月份的強勁勢頭確實延續到了第二季度，這也包含在我們的預測中。

And Cory, this is Pat. I can address the second part of the question. So I would say, as a company, we've already -- we've always prioritized compliance as kind of a core part of how we operate, and we're we are regularly reviewing and enhancing our compliance programs to try to stay ahead of regulations as they evolve and to kind of help drive industry best practices.

科里，這是帕特。我可以回答問題的第二部分。所以我想說，作為一家公司，我們一直將合規性作為我們運營的核心部分，並且我們會定期審查和加強我們的合規計劃，以便在法規不斷發展的同時保持領先地位，並幫助推動行業最佳實踐。

And I would say that kind of as part of these efforts, we are proactively implementing some additional measures. And a couple of things we've done.

我想說，作為這些努力的一部分，我們正在積極實施一些額外措施。我們還做了一些事情。

We've updated our partner code of conduct to reinforce the expectations on what partners can and cannot do. And we've expanded proactive monitoring of calls to ensure ongoing compliance with the said code of conduct. And so I think our view is this is the kind of behavior we've demonstrated over years and years for us. And focus really remains on having a great product, one that is transparent and accurate and it ultimately links up consumers with the right brokers, carriers, agents that can help them get their needs met.

我們更新了合作夥伴行為準則，以強化對合作夥伴可以做什麼和不可以做什麼的期望。我們擴大了對通話的主動監控，以確保持續遵守上述行為準則。所以我認為我們的觀點是，這是我們多年來所表現出的行為。真正的重點仍然是擁有優秀的產品，一款透明、準確的產品，最終將消費者與合適的經紀人、承運人、代理商聯繫起來，幫助他們滿足需求。

Tom McJoynt, KBW.

湯姆·麥克喬伊特（Tom McJoynt），KBW。

Staying on the subject of the under-65 segment. Can you just kind of clarify exactly what you mean by scale back? Does that mean a wind down? And then when you think about the revenue or transaction value or, I guess that would be kind of earnings mix of that under-65 segment within health, anything you can share to disclose around that?

繼續討論 65 歲以下族群的話題。您能否解釋一下「縮減」的具體意義？這是否意味著要放鬆？然後，當您考慮收入或交易價值時，我猜那將是醫療保健領域 65 歲以下細分市場的收入組合，您可以分享什麼資訊嗎？

Yes. Sorry, I was on mute there. So Tommy, I would say on that, with the Health business -- or the under-65 business, we said we were scaling down that business. And so I would not read that as being an exit, rather, we are going to be taking a partial step backwards in it. And I think we gave guidance for the upcoming quarter that we thought the health vertical as a whole would be down 25% to 30%, and we thought Medicare would be improving overall.

是的。抱歉，我剛才靜音了。因此，湯米，我想說，對於健康業務，或 65 歲以下業務，我們說我們正在縮減該業務的規模。因此，我不會將此解讀為一種退出，相反，我們將在此方面採取部分倒退。我認為，我們對下一季的預測是，我們認為整個健康垂直產業將下降 25% 至 30%，而醫療保險將整體改善。

So hopefully, that can get you to a spot where you can start to kind of contextualize what is happening there to the business. And so we believe that business, we're going to be kind of rebaselining that business over the coming quarters.

所以希望這可以讓你開始將那裡發生的事情與業務聯繫起來。因此，我們相信，我們將在未來幾季重新調整該業務。

Okay, got it. And then staying within the Health side, looking at the Medicare Advantage, can you share what you guys see in terms of the health of that market? It seems like we've seen some sort of mixed reviews from some of the health care providers in some of the recent quarterly reports. So it would be helpful to hear your commentary.

好的，明白了。然後繼續在健康方面，看看醫療保險優勢，您能分享一下您對該市場健康狀況的看法嗎？我們似乎在最近的一些季度報告中看到了一些醫療保健提供者的褒貶不一的評價。因此聽聽您的評論將會很有幫助。

Certainly. So, Pat, again, the Medicare Advantage market is one that is in a temporary hard market cycle. And I think our view is that actually relatively similar to some of the past cycles we've seen in the P&C space. And so as a reminder, we dealt with that in 2022 and 2023.

當然。因此，帕特，再次強調，醫療保險優勢市場正處於暫時的艱難市場週期。我認為我們的觀點實際上與我們在財產和意外保險領域看到的一些過去的周期相對相似。因此提醒一下，我們在 2022 年和 2023 年處理了這個問題。

And these cycles are normal and they're temporary. And really, they're being driven by some of the carrier partners experiencing headwinds is due to elevated loss costs, which are pressuring overall profitability. And as we look at the Medicare Advantage market, what we see is a business that over time has a lot of wind at its back. which is the number of seniors and eligible population for Medicare is growing. That population is increasingly opting into Medicare Advantage.

這些週期是正常的，而且是暫時的。事實上，一些承運合作夥伴正面臨阻力，損失成本上升導致整體獲利能力承運合作夥伴面臨壓力。當我們觀察醫療保險優勢市場時，我們發現，隨著時間的推移，該業務將獲得很大的發展。這意味著老年人和符合醫療保險條件的人口數量正在增加。越來越多的人選擇加入醫療保險優勢計劃。

Medicare Advantage is an important purchase for people, or important decision for folks. And it is one where the new folks aging in every year are much more kind of Internet-enabled. And we believe we're very well positioned to kind of help that industry navigate more and more to online as consumers look to shop there. So it's an area where we think over a 3-, 5-, 7-, 10-year period, the opportunity is very, very attractive for us.

醫療保險優勢計劃對人們來說是一項重要的購買計劃，或者說是重要的決定。而且，這裡每年都會迎來新居民，他們的網路使用能力也越來越強。我們相信，隨著消費者轉向線上購物，我們完全有能力幫助該行業越來越多地轉向線上購物。因此，我們認為，在 3 年、5 年、7 年甚至 10 年的時間裡，這個領域的機會對我們來說非常非常有吸引力。

Tommy, I'll add -- this is Steve. I'll also add that while Medicare Advantage has pretty broad bipartisan support I think at the margin, certainly because of the private market alternative to government run pay-per-service Medicare that it had marginally more support from Republican administration. And so I think you're starting to see that play out a bit and a more favorable climate starting to emerge from increased payment rates, which I think the industry is pleasantly surprised by the 5%-plus payment rate that were set by CMS earlier this month.

湯米，我要補充一下──這是史蒂夫。我還要補充一點，雖然醫療保險優勢計劃得到了兩黨相當廣泛的支持，但我認為，由於它是政府運營的按服務付費醫療保險的私人市場替代方案，因此它獲得了共和黨政府的略多的支持。因此，我認為您開始看到這種情況有所好轉，並且支付率的提高開始帶來更加有利的環境，我認為業界對 CMS 本月早些時候設定的 5% 以上的支付率感到驚訝。

And I think that you're starting to see signs of a different regulatory approach that this administration is ready to take with Medicare Advantage. And again, while both -- sorry, both parties had to be pretty supportive of Medicare Advantage, I do think that over the next few years at the margins, you'll see an administration that it's going to take more of a growth-oriented and a supportive position with regard to Medicare Advantage carriers.

我認為，您開始看到政府準備對醫療保險優勢計劃採取不同監管方式的跡象。再說一次，雖然雙方——抱歉，雙方都必須非常支持醫療保險優勢計劃，但我確實認為，在未來幾年內，你會看到政府在醫療保險優勢計劃運營商方面採取更加註重增長和支持的立場。

Mike Zaremski, BMO Capital Markets.

蒙特利爾銀行資本市場 (BMO Capital Markets) 的 Mike Zaremski。

I know this might be a complicated question, but can you help unpack kind of what's contributing to the contribution margin ratio declining?

我知道這可能是一個複雜的問題，但您能幫助解釋一下導致貢獻毛利率下降的原因嗎？

Yes. And Mike, which contribution margin are you talking about as a percentage of revenue?

是的。麥克，您說的貢獻利潤率是佔收入的多少百分比？

Yes, percentage of revenue.

是的，收入百分比。

Yes. And Mike, I would say we don't spend a ton of time looking at metrics as a percentage of revenue. I would say the two big metrics, we really we focus on most heavily internally and we would encourage you to focus on, would be -- the first is take rate, which is contribution as a percentage of transaction value. And for us, that number has been decreasing a bit over time. And I would say, first off, on that, that number for us tends to peak every year in the fourth quarter, which is when we have the largest -- Health is the largest portion of our business.

是的。麥克，我想說我們不會花很多時間去研究收入百分比指標。我想說的是，我們內部最關注的兩個重要指標，也是我們鼓勵您關注的，是──第一個是接受率，也就是貢獻佔交易價值的百分比。對我們來說，這個數字隨著時間的推移一直在減少。我想說，首先，對我們來說，這個數字往往在每年的第四季達到頂峰，而那時我們的健康業務佔最大。

And secondly, I would say it's been trending down over time as P&C has become, and is continuing to become, a larger percentage of our business. I would say, third, one other thing we've seen is that certain publishers have gotten larger, we've naturally seen a bit of compression in the take rates that we've seen with them kind of to reflect the increased scale that they've been able to realize.

其次，我想說，隨著財產和意外險在我們業務中所佔的比例越來越大，而且這一比例還在持續上升，因此，隨著時間的推移，這一比例一直呈下降趨勢。我想說，第三，我們看到的另一件事是，某些出版商的規模變大了，我們自然而然地看到他們的收費率有所壓縮，這反映了他們能夠實現的規模擴大。

And so I'd say those are the three biggest drivers. And then the other piece, which was, I think, implicit in the three things I talked about is the mix of open and private exchange because the private exchange has a lower take rate for us.

所以我認為這是三個最大的驅動因素。然後，我認為，我談到的三件事中隱含的另一點是公開和私人交易的混合，因為私人交易對我們來說的接受率較低。

That's helpful, Pat. And anything going on, on the mix of clicks increasing meaningfully that's also impacting some of the profit margin KPIs you look at?

這很有幫助，帕特。點擊次數的大幅增加是否也對您所關注的一些利潤率 KPI 產生了影響？

Yes. And Mike, is what you're getting at the relative mix of clicks, calls and leads?

是的。麥克，您獲得的是點擊量、通話量和潛在客戶的相對組合嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes. I would say the mix is changing a little bit. But really, the big driver of that mix change within our business is going to be the mix of P&C versus Health. Where the P&C business is very heavily click-driven for us, whereas the Health business is a bit more balanced. So it really is kind of a mix between verticals.

是的。我想說的是，混合物正在發生一些變化。但實際上，我們業務中這種組合變化的最大驅動力是財產險和意外險與健康險的組合。對我們來說，財產和意外保險業務很大程度上依賴點擊量，而健康保險業務則更加平衡一些。所以它實際上是一種垂直行業的混合。

Okay. Got it. That's helpful. I guess going back to -- I guess, two-part question on auto. Steve, you mentioned the potential -- you talked about tariffs and their potential impact.

好的。知道了。這很有幫助。我想回到——我想，關於汽車的兩部分問題。史蒂夫，你提到了潛力——你談到了關稅及其潛在影響。

Curious, in your 2Q guide, did you embed any conservatism from tariffs? And related, when we think back to three months ago when you put out your 1Q '25 guide, which was handily exceeded, maybe in your prepared remarks, what changed? I think in your prepared remarks, you might have said March ended up being a lot better. I'm not saying being conservative isn't a good way to go, but I'm curious if something just dramatically changed versus kind of 90 days ago when you put out what would appear to be a conservative guide that was exceeded?

好奇的是，在您的第二季指南中，您是否嵌入了關稅方面的保守主義？並且，當我們回想三個月前您發布的 2025 年第一季指南時，該指南已被輕鬆超越，也許在您準備好的發言中，有什麼變化嗎？我想，在您準備好的發言中，您可能會說三月的情況會好很多。我並不是說保守不是一個好方法，但我很好奇，與 90 天前你發布的看似保守的指南相比，是否發生了巨大變化？

Yeah. So, Pat can address the first question about the forecast. I think with regard to how we guided for Q1, I think as I mentioned earlier in the call, I don't think -- do things change so much at the initial conservatism with which carriers have started off the year, which we highlighted, started to wear off as the quarter wore on. And so we did have a stronger performance than expected in March because I think the carriers are very profitable, right? They see heightened consumer shopping behavior.

是的。因此，帕特可以回答有關預測的第一個問題。關於我們對第一季的預期，我認為正如我在電話會議中早些時候提到的那樣，我認為情況不會發生太大變化，正如我們所強調的，運營商在年初表現出的保守態度隨著季度的推移而開始消退。因此，我們 3 月份的業績確實好於預期，因為我認為航空公司的利潤非常高，對嗎？他們發現消費者的購物行為有所增強。

It's hard for them to really ignore that and remain conservative around the sidelines for too long in a market environment like that. And so I think certainly, when we gave back guidance, we were seeing some of the conservatism from the carriers as the New Year started. I think we did our best to point out that we suspected that this was an overly conservative start to the year, right, and that there's a possibility that things could improve as the quarter wore on.

在這樣的市場環境下，他們很難真正忽視這一點，並長期保持保守的觀望態度。因此我認為，當我們重新給出指引時，我們確實看到了新年伊始航空公司的一些保守態度。我想我們已經盡力指出，我們懷疑這是今年過於保守的開始，對吧，而且隨著本季的推移，情況有可能改善。

I just think that things improved and carriers really started to put a robust budget into our marketplace, perhaps a bit earlier than we expected. And again, we saw that the growth in margin, and we've seen that continue into Q2.

我只是認為情況有所改善，營運商確實開始向我們的市場投入大量預算，這可能比我們預期的要早一些。我們再次看到利潤率的成長，而這種成長持續到了第二季。

And Mike, to address the other part of your question. I would say that on the tariffs and their potential impact on Q2. From a guidance standpoint, we guide to what we have a high degree of confidence in. And we're in a spot where April is pretty much in the books for us, and we're starting to get some visibility on what the looks like. And so we've extrapolated out for the balance of the quarter and I think the view of tariffs and potential impact on Q2 is likely to be relatively muted.

麥克，回答一下你問題的另一部分。我想說的是關稅及其對第二季的潛在影響。從指導的角度來看，我們會對我們高度有信心的事物進行指導。目前，四月份的業績對我們來說已經基本確定，我們也開始對未來的發展有了一些了解。因此，我們對本季的餘額進行了推斷，我認為對關稅的看法和對第二季的潛在影響可能會相對溫和。

I think Steve in his prepared remarks that it could be something that impacts more of the latter part of the year, but probably too early to tell exactly what that might ultimately look like. But I think we feel like we've guided for Q2 numbers that we have a pretty good degree of confidence in.

我認為史蒂夫在他準備好的發言中表示，這可能會對今年下半年產生更大的影響，但目前還不能確切地說最終會是什麼樣子。但我認為，我們對第二季的數據有相當好的信心。

Got it. And probably nothing you can say on this, but any comments you can make on time line for resolution to the legal inquiry that's been ongoing?

知道了。對此您可能無話可說，但是您可以就正在進行的法律調查的解決時間表發表什麼評論嗎？

Yes. And I think you've -- I think in as you pointed out, I think it's difficult for us to really comment on that while we're actively engaged in discussions with the FTC staff. Both because we're limited in what we can disclose and because I think the timing of these types of negotiations, particularly with the government body tends to be hard to predict.

是的。我認為正如您所指出的，在我們正在積極與聯邦貿易委員會工作人員進行討論的情況下，我們很難對此發表評論。一方面是因為我們能夠揭露的資訊有限，另一方面我認為這類談判的時間，特別是與政府機構的談判時間往往很難預測。

Sorry, my last follow-up. Is there any kind of statutory time line whereby something would have to be disclosed in a certain amount of time based on kind of what this has been going on for a while, or just kind of fish for or if there's anything that might come out into the public domain based on just the required disclosure?

抱歉，這是我最後一次跟進。是否存在某種法定的時間表，根據這種情況持續了一段時間，是否需要披露某些信息，或者是否只需要披露某些信息就可以將其公開？

Yes, Mike, I'm not certain of this. But to my knowledge, there is no statutory time line in that play here.

是的，麥克，我不確定。但據我所知，該劇沒有法定的時間表。

Yes. And Mike, I would just say if we reach a resolution, we'll update investors otherwise, we're going to keep kind of updating our disclosures and investors on a quarter-to-quarter basis.

是的。麥克，我只想說，如果我們達成解決方案，我們將向投資者通報最新情況，否則，我們將繼續按季度更新我們的揭露資訊和投資者情況。

Andrew Kligerman, TD Securities.

道明證券的安德魯‧克里格曼 (Andrew Kligerman)。

First question on the private market versus open exchange. I wasn't quite clear on why more business will flow to open exchange? So maybe you can elaborate on what you were saying earlier. And then Pat, you mentioned that it would probably in the near term shift more towards private exchange. So year over year, it went from 44.1% to 45.4%. How high could that private exchange proportion get in the near term?

第一個問題是關於私人市場與公開交易的。我不太清楚為什麼會有更多的業務流向開放式交易所？所以也許您可以詳細說明一下您之前所說的內容。然後帕特，你提到它可能在短期內會更多地轉向私人交流。因此與年比來看，這一比例從 44.1% 上升到了 45.4%。短期內私人交易所的比例能達到多高？

I can start off the answer, which is that what I was -- the point I was making was that I think, as the first carriers to recover and the first publishers to really be able to take advantage of the recovery of the P&C market or the large advertisers and the large publishers. And so I think what you're seeing now as recovery starts to build momentum, we're still in a position where the recovery is relatively head heavy, right? Again, compared to where we expect to be quarter three from now, four quarters from now.

我可以先回答這個問題，我想說的是，我認為，作為第一批復甦的運營商和第一批真正能夠利用 P&C 市場復甦的出版商，或者大型廣告商和大型出版商。因此我認為，您現在看到的是，儘管復甦勢頭開始增強，但我們仍然處於復甦相對艱難的階段，對嗎？再次，與我們預計的從現在起的第三季、第四季度的情況相比。

And so there's going to be more transactions generally speaking in the early part of a recovery like this because this is a private marketplace, or the seller exchange option that we have is really meant for our largest publishers to be able to work directly and contract directly with our largest advertisers. And to the point I was making is overall as the recovery starts to gain momentum, they become more broad-based, both on the carrier side and in terms of attracting new publishers into our marketplace is that they thought the new entrants are going to be smaller, right, in nature.

因此，在像這樣的復甦初期，一般會有更多的交易，因為這是一個私人市場，或者說，我們擁有的賣方交換選項實際上是為了讓我們最大的出版商能夠直接與我們最大的廣告商合作並直接簽訂合約。我想說的是，總體而言，隨著經濟復甦勢頭開始增強，無論是在運營商方面，還是在吸引新出版商進入我們的市場方面，他們都認為新進入者的規模會更小，對吧，本質上是這樣。

And so most likely, the growth at some point in this recovery is going to start to flow into the open exchange vis-a-vis the seller exchange. And I think what Pat was pointing out was that notwithstanding the general trend, our seller exchange and open exchange mix tends to be vertical specific, and there are specific partnerships that we might be onboarding that might skew this one direction or another.

因此最有可能的是，在這次復甦的某個時刻，成長將開始流入相對於賣方交易所的公開交易所。我認為帕特指出的是，儘管總體趨勢如此，但我們的賣家交易和開放交易組合往往是垂直的，而且我們可能正在建立的特定合作夥伴關係可能會偏向這個方向或另一個方向。

Pat, do you have anything to add?

派特，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

I think that's a great thought.

我認為這是一個很棒的想法。

I'm glad we can clarify that.

我很高興我們能夠澄清這一點。

Yes. And then, Steve, you made another comment in the Q&A that the -- I think you said something like there are 10 carriers not punching where they should be. So you think that there's more activity to come going forward? So this is kind of a broad question for you.

是的。然後，史蒂夫，你在問答環節中又發表了另一條評論——我想你說過類似有 10 家運營商沒有在他們應該在的地方打卡之類的話。那麼，您認為未來還會有更多的活動嗎？所以這對您來說是一個很廣泛的問題。

But kind of curious, like in your view -- and it feels like the market has come back a lot. Like on a scale of 1 to 10, where are we in terms of shopping activity? Are we like a 7 or an 8? It feels like an 8, but I'm kind of curious as to how you see the market having reopened.

但有點好奇，就像您認為的那樣——感覺市場已經回升了很多。以 1 到 10 為等級，我們的購物活動處於什麼位置？我們像 7 還是 8？感覺像是 8，但我有點好奇您如何看待市場重新開放。

So I think I heard a couple of different things. One is the point I was making was that of the top 10 personal lines carriers or personal auto carriers, there are still several who aren't punching their way in terms of spending at historical levels in our channel, or really investing in the secular growth of their direct-to-consumer offering and distribution channel.

所以我想我聽到了一些不同的事情。我想說的一點是，在排名前 10 位的個人險承運商或個人汽車保險公司中，仍有幾家在我們的通路上的支出沒有達到歷史水平，或者沒有真正投資於直接面向消費者的產品和分銷渠道的長期增長。

And so, again, for carriers who really aren't punching their weight based on where they were pre-COVID or [pre-part] market, sorry. I think you'd expect to see them starting to really ramp up their spend more quickly. But there are other carriers in the top 10, in the top 25, right, who have been a bit slow to really invest in direct-to-consumer as a channel, right.

因此，對於那些沒有在疫情之前或[零件]市場的基礎上真正發揮影響力的航空公司，我們深感抱歉。我想你會看到他們開始真正更快地增加支出。但前 10 名、前 25 名中的其他業者在直接面向消費者的通路投資方面做得有點慢，對吧。

And that you'd expect to see those carriers really starting to make that dealer shift to emphasizing direct-to-consumer channels more in the upcoming quarters and years. And so that was really the point I was trying to make with that.

而你有望看到這些業者在未來幾季和幾年真正開始讓經銷商轉向更重視直接面向消費者的通路。這就是我真正想要表達的觀點。

Now you asked about where the shopping behavior is? I think it's a slightly different question because then we're talking about consumer shopping and switching activity that has been heightened because of all the rate increases that you saw flowing in and starting to earn in over the last few years. And certainly, I think currently, consumer shopping behavior and switching behavior remain at historical highs.

現在你問的是購物行為在哪裡？我認為這是一個略有不同的問題，因為我們正在談論消費者的購物和轉換活動，由於過去幾年來所有利率的上漲，這種活動已經加劇。當然，我認為目前消費者的購物行為和轉換行為仍處於歷史高點。

But I think you're going to start to see that come down a bit as the rate increases, that carriers are taking start to slow down and so the rate increases that are being passed through to existing customers through the renewals also start to slow down.

但我認為，隨著費率上漲，你會開始看到這一數字有所下降，承運商開始放慢速度，因此透過續約轉嫁給現有客戶的費率上漲也開始放緩。

So if the shopping activity slows, Steve, would that mean kind of less activity for MediaAlpha? Do you feel like there's a lot of tailwind left before things normalize?

那麼，史蒂夫，如果購物活動放緩，這是否意味著 MediaAlpha 的活動也會減少？您是否覺得在情況恢復正常之前還有很多順風因素？

It's a great question. I think it's caught both ways. And I would say that my general quick answer is going to be no, right? And because I think consumer shopping activity being at very high levels, I think oftentimes for carriers act as an excuse to not spend too much on marketing because for getting a lot of organic traffic. But the carrier is being immensely profitable and actually needing to grow, that need is not going to go away.

這是一個很好的問題。我認為這是雙向的。我想說，我的一般快速回答是“不”，對嗎？而且我認為消費者的購物活動處於非常高的水平，因此運營商常常會以不花太多行銷費用為藉口，因為他們想要獲得大量的自然流量。但該航空公司利潤豐厚，實際上需要成長，這種需求不會消失。

And so in some ways, I think they're going to be curious to then invest more in advertising to try to fuel their growth because they can't rely on this ambient consumer shopping activity to generate new policies for that. And so certainly, it might make it a little bit more difficult for our publishers to get interested consumers to shop on their site.

因此，從某種程度上來說，我認為他們會好奇地在廣告上投入更多資金，試圖推動他們的成長，因為他們無法依靠這種環境消費者購物活動來制定新的政策。因此，這肯定會使我們的出版商更難吸引有興趣的消費者在其網站上購物。

But there again, if there's ample budget and appetite for carriers to grow, I think we're just firm believers that the comparison site and the lead generation sites and the carrier sites that we work with among our publisher base will find a way to generate interested consumer shopping activity, if there's ample budget on the part of carriers to support that.

但是，如果營運商有足夠的預算和成長意願，我認為我們堅信，如果營運商有足夠的預算來支持這一點，那麼比較網站、潛在客戶生成網站和我們與出版商合作的營運商網站將找到一種方法來激發感興趣的消費者購物活動。

I see. So it sounds like you feel like there's some significant runway ahead for more?

我懂了。所以聽起來您覺得未來還有很大的發展空間？

Yes, yes.

是的，是的。

Okay. And then just one last one. So the customer health team, so you've taken this write-down, I think it was like $11 million. As I look back, it's a deal that you acquired back in Feb '22 -- February of 2022. So maybe share with us a little bit what happened there, why the write-down after such a short time?

好的。最後再說一句。所以客戶健康團隊，你已經記下了這筆減記，我認為它大約是 1100 萬美元。回想起來，這是你們在 2022 年 2 月到 2022 年 2 月達成的交易。所以，能否與我們分享當時發生的事情，為什麼在這麼短的時間內就減記了？

Yes. And Andrew, we acquired the customer helper team in 2022. As a reminder, it was a business that was focused on -- known and operated business focused on social media, was in the Medicare and Health space. And the acquisition brought us some new capabilities. I would say, in general, it fell short of our expectations.

是的。安德魯，我們在 2022 年收購了客戶助理團隊。提醒一下，這是一家專注於社交媒體的知名和經營的企業，涉及醫療保險和健康領域。此次收購為我們帶來了一些新的能力。我想說，總的來說，它沒有達到我們的期望。

And as we've kind of continue to integrate the team and kind of focus on kind of our true strength going forward, we've sunset a lot of those social marketing activities. And as a result, under kind of accounting policy, we had to run analyses on that if we ultimately recognize the write-off of certain intangible assets that we acquired from them. And so I would say it's probably the last you will hear us talk about DHT and any of our files.

隨著我們不斷整合團隊並專注於我們未來的真正優勢，我們已經停止了許多社交行銷活動。因此，根據會計政策，如果我們最終確認從他們那裡獲得的某些無形資產的註銷，我們必須對此進行分析。所以我想說這可能是您最後一次聽到我們談論 DHT 和我們的任何文件。

Eric Sheridan, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的艾瑞克·謝裡丹。

In terms of looking out of the next 12, 18 months, I wanted know if you could parse out some of the investments that almost should be viewed as fixed against where you want to take the platform and elements of growth looking out over the time horizon? And where there could be elements of variability in the way you invest or protect margin if there was an overall slowdown in the broader macroeconomic activity? Sort of elements of must invest versus elements where there could be flex and ability to respond to an environment shift.

就未來 12 至 18 個月的展望而言，我想知道您是否可以分析出一些幾乎應該被視為固定的投資，以根據您希望在時間範圍內將平台和成長要素帶到何處？如果宏觀經濟活動整體放緩，您的投資或保護保證金的方式是否會改變？必須投資的要素與可以靈活應對環境變化的要素。

Yes. And Eric, this is Pat. Are you thinking of this in terms of like kind of overhead and people investments, or in terms of commercial relationships or kind of -- in what context are you thinking about that?

是的。埃里克，這是帕特。您是從管理費用和人力投資的角度考慮這個問題，還是從商業關係的角度考慮這個問題——您是在什麼背景下考慮這個問題的？

Frankly, a little bit of growth investments that you plan on making against what you see as the opportunity set over the next couple of years? Did you probably wouldn't want to lose sight of if there was a slowdown in the economy for a couple of quarters versus areas where you could be responsive to a slowdown and either slow the rate of investments or cut the fixed cost to protect the margin if there was such a slowdown?

坦白說，您計劃針對未來幾年所面臨的機會進行一些成長投資嗎？如果經濟在幾個季度內出現放緩，您是否可能不想忽視哪些領域可以對經濟放緩做出反應，如果出現這種放緩，您可以放慢投資速度或削減固定成本以保護利潤率？

Yes. And Eric, I appreciate the clarification on that. I would say, for us, we run very, very lean as a company. I think we ended Q1 with 146 employees. And if you look at what we did in 2022 and 2023, which was hardest market -- worst market, the P&C carriers that had in my lifetime.

是的。艾瑞克，我很感謝你對此的澄清。我想說，對我們來說，作為一家公司，我們的營運非常非常精簡。我認為我們第一季結束時有 146 名員工。如果你看看我們在 2022 年和 2023 年的表現，那是我一生中財產和意外傷害保險公司所經歷的最艱難的市場、最糟糕的市場。

We backed down the hatches. We had a reduction in force and we did make some -- there was a lot of belt tightening and there were some cuts in there. But we kept the core team intact. We continue to hire selectively where there was business need. And we think we positioned ourselves really well to take advantage of the market recovery that happened in 2024 and relatively strong market dynamics that we have today.

我們撤退了。我們裁減了人員，也確實做了一些事情——勒緊褲腰帶，削減了一些開支。但我們保留了核心團隊的完整。我們將繼續根據業務需求有選擇地招募人才。我們認為，我們已經做好了充分的準備，可以利用 2024 年的市場復甦以及目前相對強勁的市場活力。

And I think to the extent we needed to do something like that again in the future, we would look to the playbook that we executed in the past, which is anything that we can live without, we live without. But our business has had cycles in the past, and the cycles can be painful on the downside. But a lot of activity happens in the recovery, and it is paramount to be well positioned for that recovery. And I think we will continue to execute the playbook that has treated us very well over the last 15 years.

我認為，如果我們將來需要再做類似的事情，我們會參考過去執行的劇本，也就是那些我們可以沒有的東西，我們也可以沒有的東西。但我們的生意過去也經歷過週期，而這些週期在下行時可能會很痛苦。但復甦過程中會發生很多活動，為復甦做好準備至關重要。我認為我們將繼續執行過去 15 年來對我們非常有利的策略。

Ben Hendrix, RBC.

本‧亨德里克斯 (Ben Hendrix)，加拿大皇家銀行。

Just wanted to go back to your comments on the senior Medicare Advantage business and the hard market cycle. We saw, I guess, earlier this week, Elevance Health announced that they will be removing nearly all of their Medicare Advantage plans from online marketing platform, I guess, effective tomorrow.

我只是想回到您對高級醫療保險優勢業務和艱難市場週期的評論。我想，我們在本週早些時候看到，Elevance Health 宣布他們將從線上行銷平台上刪除幾乎所有的醫療保險優勢計劃，我想，從明天開始生效。

And I read that as kind of reaction to this elevated utilization environment and a desire to kind of side step from the adverse selection you may be seeing, considering they're one of the stronger growers this year. And just wanted to see, just given that they're the number four largest MA carrier, if that is factoring in in your thoughts to the back half of the year, or the back part of the year? And if it's a behavior that you're seeing from any other big MA carriers?

我認為這是對這種高利用率環境的一種反應，也是一種希望避開你可能看到的逆向選擇的願望，因為他們是今年種植較強的種植者之一。只是想看看，鑑於他們是 MA 第四大航空公司，這是否會對下半年或下半年的業績產生影響？如果您在其他大型 MA 營運商那裡也看到過這種行為，那該怎麼辦？

Yes. I'll take the first question. I think we're certainly not having the discussions of investment discussions for the upcoming AEP period with carriers at this time. And so we're not -- it's too early for us to tell whether these actions that they're taking now will flow into the upcoming AEP.

是的。我來回答第一個問題。我認為我們目前肯定不會與營運商討論即將到來的 AEP 期間的投資問題。因此，我們現在還不能斷言他們現在採取的這些行動是否會融入即將到來的 AEP。

I do think that this is just a normal cycle of carriers or payers in this case, really to making adjustments that are needed to maintain their profitability at a time when they have challenging utilization rates and challenging payment rates as well, which, again, I think are starting to be addressed by this new administration.

我確實認為這只是運營商或付款人的正常週期，在這種情況下，他們確實需要做出必要的調整以保持盈利能力，因為他們面臨著利用率和支付率的挑戰，我認為新政府正在開始解決這些問題。

And so as Pat mentioned, I think that it's not technically a hard market, but there's a hard market like environment for Medicare Advantage. I think we'll be temporary, and we'll continue to work with the carriers that we continue to believe that this $500 billion industry covering over 50% of seniors will continue to grow and we'll continue to move online as we've seen other insurance verticals do. And we believe that we're pretty well positioned to capitalize on that long-term opportunity.

正如帕特所提到的，我認為從技術上講這不是一個艱難的市場，但對於醫療保險優勢計劃來說，存在一個類似艱難的市場環境。我認為這只是暫時的，我們將繼續與保險公司合作，我們仍然相信這個覆蓋超過 50% 老年人的 5000 億美元行業將繼續增長，我們將繼續向線上發展，就像我們看到的其他保險垂直行業一樣。我們相信，我們已做好準備，充分利用這一長期機會。

Yes. And then, I'll probably just add two things, which is I would say that Medicare has been similar to P&C and that certain carriers have taken action earlier, some have taken action later. And so we've seen folks be taking actions for four or five quarters now, and I'm sure there will still be more that are yet to come on that.

是的。然後，我可能只想補充兩點，我想說的是，醫療保險與 P&C 類似，某些保險公司較早採取了行動，有些保險公司較晚採取行動。我們已經看到人們已經採取了四、五個季度的行動，我相信還會有更多的行動即將到來。

And I would also say that I think the carriers are in a spot that's pretty tough, but I think some of the brokers are actually doing all right at the moment in the Medicare side. And while carriers are probably the most exciting long-term opportunity for us in Medicare, we've got good broker relationships and I think those relationships are, I think, generally do it all right at the moment.

我還想說，我認為保險公司的處境相當艱難，但我認為目前一些經紀人在醫療保險方面做得還不錯。雖然承運人可能是我們在醫療保險領域最令人興奮的長期機會，但我們與經紀人建立了良好的關係，我認為這些關係目前總體上做得很好。

There are no further questions at this time.

目前沒有其他問題。

Yes. Well, thanks, everyone. I think that concludes the call.

是的。好的，謝謝大家。我想通話到此結束。

Thank you, everyone, for joining today's call. You may now disconnect.

感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。您現在可以斷開連線。