西南航空 (LUV) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Southwest Airlines first-quarter 2026 conference call. I'm Nick, and I will be monitoring today's call, which is being recorded. A replay will be available on southwest.com in the Investor Relations section. (Operator Instructions)

各位好，歡迎參加西南航空 2026 年第一季財報電話會議。我是 Nick，將負責監控今天的會議；本次會議將被錄音。重播將於 southwest.com 的投資人關係（Investor Relations）專區提供。（接線員指示）

Now Danielle Collins, Managing Director of Investor Relations, will begin the discussion. Please go ahead, Danielle.

現在將由投資人關係董事總經理 Danielle Collins 開始說明。Danielle，請開始。

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Southwest Airlines first-quarter 2026 earnings call. In just a moment, we will share our prepared remarks, after which we will move into Q&A. Joining me today are Bob Jordan, our President and Chief Executive Officer; Andrew Watterson, our Chief Operating Officer; and Tom Doxey, our Chief Financial Officer.

各位好，歡迎參加西南航空 2026 年第一季財報電話會議。稍後我們將分享事先準備的發言內容，之後進入問答環節。今天與我一同出席的有：總裁兼執行長 Bob Jordan；營運長 Andrew Watterson；以及財務長 Tom Doxey。

Before we begin, A quick reminder that in today's session, we will be making forward-looking statements, which are based on our current expectations of future performance, and our actual results could differ materially from expectations. Also, we will reference our non-GAAP results, which exclude special items that are called out and reconciled to GAAP results in our earnings press release.

在開始之前，提醒各位：今天的會議中我們將作出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述係基於我們對未來表現的目前預期，而實際結果可能與預期有重大差異。此外，我們也會提及非 GAAP（Non-GAAP）結果，該結果排除特殊項目；相關特殊項目已在我們的財報新聞稿中揭露，並與 GAAP 結果進行調節。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Bob.

接下來我把電話交給 Bob。

Thank you, Danielle, and good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today. First quarter 2026 represents an important milestone for Southwest as all our previously announced initiatives are now in place and contributing to our results and what a difference a year makes. That broad set of commercial, operational, and cost and efficiency actions represent a fundamental transformation of our business model and is translating into strong customer demand for our new product, strong financial results, and strong margin expansion. The financial tailwind provided by these initiatives is meaningful, as indicated by our results.

謝謝你，Danielle，各位早安。感謝各位今天加入我們。2026 年第一季對西南航空而言是一個重要里程碑，因為我們先前宣布的所有措施如今都已到位並開始對業績作出貢獻；一年之間的變化非常顯著。這一整套涵蓋商業、營運，以及成本與效率的行動，代表我們商業模式的根本性轉型，並正轉化為對我們新產品的強勁客戶需求、強勁的財務表現，以及顯著的利潤率擴張。這些措施帶來的財務順風相當可觀，從我們的業績即可看出。

Our first-quarter EPS of $0.45 was in line with our guidance in January and represents a significant year-over-year improvement from a loss of $0.26 per share or an adjusted loss per share of $0.13, and these results were delivered against the backdrop of significantly higher fuel costs, which represented a $0.22 EPS headwind in the quarter further illustrating the underlying momentum that we're seeing across the business.

我們第一季每股盈餘（EPS）為 0.45 美元，符合我們 1 月提供的指引，並較去年同期每股虧損 0.26 美元（或調整後每股虧損 0.13 美元）大幅改善；而這些成果是在燃油成本顯著上升的背景下達成，燃油在本季對 EPS 造成 0.22 美元的不利影響，進一步說明我們在整體業務上所看到的內在動能。

First-quarter operating margin of 4.6% was an 8.1 point improvement year over year, or 6.6 points on an adjusted basis, a powerful change in how the company generates earnings. We also generated $1.4 billion in operating cash flow in the quarter, an increase of 65% from the first quarter of 2025.

第一季營業利潤率為 4.6%，年增 8.1 個百分點；若以調整後基礎則增加 6.6 個百分點，這是公司獲利模式的一項強力轉變。本季我們也創造 14 億美元的營運現金流，較 2025 年第一季增加 65%。

Now that the contributions from our initiatives have kicked in, I want to reflect on two potential narratives that have been brought up occasionally regarding Southwest Airlines. The first being, because we don't serve long-haul international markets, and like material exposure to premium segments, we would be unable to generate margins that are in line with carriers that do have those attributes.

現在，隨著我們各項措施的貢獻開始顯現，我想回應兩個外界偶爾提到、關於西南航空的可能敘事。第一個是：因為我們不經營長程國際市場，且不像其他航空公司那樣對高端（premium）客群有實質曝險，因此我們無法產生與具備這些特質的航空公司相當的利潤率。

And second, that our customer base is somehow different and would therefore be unwilling to respond to our product changes, and pay more for segmented products and seat ancillaries. As evidenced by our first quarter results, we are proving those arguments wrong. Southwest has significant fundamental and enduring core strengths. The largest domestic network, the most non-stop flights, and a number one position in nearly half of the 50 largest US airports, operational excellence that resulted in Southwest being named the Wall Street Journal's Best US Airline of 2025, cost discipline and operational efficiency, and importantly, legendary service and hospitality provided by our incredible people.

第二個是：我們的客群在某種程度上不同，因此不願意對我們的產品變革作出回應，也不願意為分級產品與座位附加服務支付更高費用。從我們第一季的業績可以看出，我們正在證明這些說法是錯的。西南航空擁有重要、根本且持久的核心優勢。包括：最大的美國國內航網、最多的直飛航班、在美國前 50 大機場中近一半居於第一的市占地位；卓越的營運表現使西南航空獲《華爾街日報》評選為 2025 年美國最佳航空公司；成本紀律與營運效率；以及最重要的，由我們優秀同仁所提供的傳奇式服務與待客之道。

Those core strengths, coupled with our new product offering, are fundamentally changing the financial margins that we produce. Our transform business model is being stress tested and this unique environment of geopolitical upheaval and much higher fuel prices. Against this challenging backdrop, our first quarter operating margin of 4.6% and our year-over-year unit revenue growth of 11.2% demonstrate the strength of our new model.

這些核心優勢，加上我們的新產品方案，正在從根本上改變我們所能創造的財務利潤率。我們轉型後的商業模式正在接受壓力測試，面對的是地緣政治動盪與更高的燃油價格這一獨特環境。在這樣具挑戰性的背景下，我們第一季 4.6% 的營業利潤率，以及單位營收年增 11.2%，展現了新模式的強韌性。

Moreover, in the second quarter, we expect unit revenue growth between 16.5% and 18.5%, which I expect to be industry-leading by a wide margin. That's all proof that our existing customer base and the new customers we are attracting, want and are willing to pay for our new products and our product attributes.

此外，在第二季，我們預期單位營收成長介於 16.5% 至 18.5%，我預期這將以明顯幅度領先同業。這些都證明：我們既有客群以及我們正在吸引的新客群，都想要、也願意為我們的新產品與產品屬性付費。

In other words, they love the Southwest product. While the external environment remains uncertain, we are confident about how we are positioned, a wholesale change to the business model and product offering that is being battle-tested by higher fuel prices and geopolitical tensions, yet is producing top-tier industry financial results.

換句話說，他們喜愛西南航空的產品。儘管外部環境仍不確定，我們對自身的定位充滿信心：商業模式與產品供給已全面改變，並在更高燃油價格與地緣政治緊張的壓力下接受考驗，但仍能產出業界頂尖的財務成果。

Looking deeper at the results, demand remained strong across geographies, customer segments, and both business and leisure. And the customer take rate for our enhanced product offering and seating ancillaries is strong as well.

更深入來看，需求在各地區、各客群，以及商務與休閒兩端都維持強勁。同時，客戶對我們強化後的產品方案與座位附加服務的採用率也相當強勁。

Passenger revenue growth, operating revenue, and unit revenue each set first-quarter records, with March marking our largest operating revenue month in our history. Going forward, we remain squarely focused on continued margin expansion and are taking actions to further improve financial results, including aggressively optimizing our product and revenue initiatives such as the recent increase in bag fees, taking targeted actions to further reduce non-fuel costs, and drive efficiency across the business.

旅客營收成長、營業收入與單位營收皆創下第一季新高，其中 3 月更是我們歷史上營業收入最高的月份。展望未來，我們仍將專注於持續擴大利潤率，並採取行動進一步改善財務表現，包括積極優化產品與營收措施（例如近期調高行李費）、採取具針對性的行動以進一步降低非燃油成本，並推動全公司效率提升。

And you saw a portion of that come through in our first quarter CASM-X increase of 2.3%, well below our guide of 3.5%. Continuing enhancements to our product offering, such as our new partnership with Starlink. By the end of the year, Starlink will be available on at least 300 aircraft, and roughly two-thirds of our fleet will be equipped with in-seat power and larger overhead bins.

你們也在第一季看到部分成果：我們的 CASM-X（不含燃油與特殊項目的單位成本）僅增加 2.3%，明顯低於我們 3.5% 的指引。我們也持續強化產品供給，例如與 Starlink 的新合作夥伴關係。到今年年底，Starlink 將至少在 300 架飛機上提供服務，且我們約三分之二的機隊將配備座椅電源與更大的置物櫃。

We expect these changes, combined with recent product enhancements to continue to drive growth in corporate business travel. We are aggressively managing our network, reducing lower return flying and redeploying that capacity to higher margin opportunities, such as the recently announced suspension of operations at Chicago O'Hare and Washington Dulles, and we had a handful of flights at both airports, which were underperforming.

我們預期這些變革，加上近期的產品強化，將持續推動企業商務旅遊的成長。我們正積極管理航網，減少報酬較低的航班，並將運能重新部署至利潤率更高的機會，例如近期宣布暫停在芝加哥歐海爾（O'Hare）與華盛頓杜勒斯（Dulles）的營運；我們在這兩座機場的航班數量不多，且表現不佳。

And we entered 2026 with a disciplined capacity plan and now expect full-year capacity growth of approximately 2% at the low end of our prior 2% to 3% range, driven by ongoing schedule optimization and network refinement.

我們以審慎的運能計畫進入 2026 年，目前預期全年運能成長約 2%，位於先前 2% 至 3% 區間的低端，主要受持續的班表最佳化與航網精進所帶動。

Turning to the outlook. There is significant economic and geopolitical uncertainty, and it's not possible to know with confidence all the ways the industry could be inactive. That said, we do know two things. Fuel prices are much higher. And if that is sustained, it will require higher ticket prices to offset that increase in fuel.

接著談展望。目前存在顯著的經濟與地緣政治不確定性，無法有把握地掌握產業可能受到影響的所有方式。不過，我們確定兩件事。燃油價格高出許多。若此情況持續，將需要提高票價以抵銷燃油上漲帶來的增加成本。

Given the ongoing macroeconomic uncertainty, updating our full-year adjusted EPS guide of $4 would not be productive at this time. Achieving this outcome would require lower fuel prices and/or stronger revenue performance to offset higher fuel expense. We will continue to monitor conditions closely and provide updates to our guidance as appropriate.

鑑於持續的總體經濟不確定性，此時更新我們全年調整後 EPS 4 美元的指引並無助益。要達成該結果，需要較低的燃油價格和／或更強的營收表現，以抵銷較高的燃油費用。我們將持續密切監控情勢，並在適當時機更新指引。

For the second quarter, we expect EPS in the range of $0.35 to $0.65 using an average fuel price range of $4.10 to $4.15 based on the forward curve as of April 16. The EPS guide represents significant expected earnings and margin expansion year over year.

就第二季而言，我們預期 EPS 介於 0.35 至 0.65 美元，假設平均燃油價格區間為 4.10 至 4.15 美元，該假設係基於 4 月 16 日的遠期曲線。此 EPS 指引代表我們預期獲利與利潤率將較去年同期顯著擴張。

In closing, while fuel is an external factor, and we were operating in a volatile macro environment, our first-quarter results are proof there is strong customer demand for our new products. Our initiatives are working. Our significant core strengths remain, and that combination is producing top of industry margins.

最後總結，雖然燃油屬於外部因素，且我們正處於波動的總體環境中，但第一季的業績證明客戶對我們新產品有強勁需求。我們的各項措施正在奏效。我們重要的核心優勢依然存在，而這樣的組合正帶來業界頂尖的利潤率。

I want to say how proud I am of our people. The progress we are seeing across the business is the direct result of the work they do every day, delivering for each other, our customers, and our shareholders. We are just 18 months removed from announcing our initial transformational initiatives, and I could not be prouder of our teams for the discipline and excellence which they continue to deliver.

我想說，我為我們的同仁感到非常自豪。我們在整個業務中看到的進展，直接來自他們每天所做的工作——彼此支援、服務我們的客戶，以及為股東創造價值。距離我們宣布最初的轉型舉措才剛過18個月，我對我們團隊持續展現的紀律與卓越表現感到無比自豪。

And with that, I will turn it over to Andrew to cover revenues and operational performance.

接下來，我把時間交給Andrew，請他說明營收與營運表現。

Thanks, Bob. The first quarter was an important one for our operations as our teams delivered industry-leading reliability while executing a significant amount of change across the airline. This included the successful implementation of assigned seating and extra legroom on January 27, with the operation ranking first among our peers, an on-time performance, and completion factor on launch day.

謝謝，Bob。第一季對我們的營運而言是重要的一季，因為我們的團隊在全航空公司推動大量變革的同時，仍交出業界領先的可靠度。這包括在1月27日成功導入指定座位與加大腿部空間座位；在上線當天，我們的營運在同業中排名第一，準點表現與完成率也名列前茅。

Q1 RASM was up 11.2% year over year, well above our guidance of at least 9.5%, reflecting the contribution from our new product offering, as well as broad demand strength across the network. Operating revenue of $7.2 billion was an all-time record for first quarter.

第一季RASM年增11.2%，明顯高於我們至少9.5%的指引，反映新產品方案的貢獻，以及全航網需求普遍強勁。營運收入達72億美元，創第一季歷史新高。

We also announced adjustments to our network. As Bob mentioned, we announced the suspension of operations at O'Hare and Dulles, where we'd be consolidating our operation in the Chicago Midway, Reagan National, and Baltimore and reallocating capacity to high performing opportunities.

我們也宣布了航網調整。如Bob所提，我們宣布暫停在O'Hare與Dulles的營運，並將在芝加哥Midway、Reagan National與巴爾的摩整併營運，同時把運能重新配置到表現更佳的機會上。

At the same time, we are seeing strong performance in markets where we've added capacity, including San Diego, Orlando, and Nashville. We will continue to evaluate future network and capacity adjustments that we feel will be accretive to our performance.

同時，我們也看到在新增運能的市場表現強勁，包括聖地牙哥、奧蘭多與納什維爾。我們將持續評估未來的航網與運能調整，並相信這些調整將有助於提升我們的績效。

Separately, we are seeing our initiatives resonate with customers, as demonstrated by several examples. We have seen a meaningful shift in customer purchasing behavior. The mix of customers buying up from our base product increased from approximately 20% at 2025 to roughly 60% in the first quarter of 2026, with ancillary upsell performance also meet expectations.

另外，我們也看到各項舉措正在引起客戶共鳴，從幾個例子即可看出。我們觀察到客戶購買行為出現顯著轉變。從我們基礎產品加價升級的客戶占比，已由2025年的約20%提升至2026年第一季約60%，附加服務加購（ancillary upsell）的表現也符合預期。

We're also seeing clear traction with business travelers. Managed corporate revenue increased 16% in the first quarter and 25% in March, marking the largest quarter and month in our history and reinforcing that our enhanced product is resonating with higher yield customers. At the same time, engagement across our Rapid Rewards program continues to strengthen. Enrollments increased 37% year over year. And the number of customers earning tier status rose 62%, demonstrating both strong acquisition of new customers and deeper loyalty from existing base.

我們也看到商務旅客方面有明顯進展。第一季管理型企業客戶收入（managed corporate revenue）成長16%，3月成長25%，創下公司史上最高的季度與單月表現，並再次證明我們強化後的產品正獲得高收益客群的認同。同時，我們的Rapid Rewards計畫整體互動持續增強。註冊人數年增37%。而取得等級資格（tier status）的客戶數增加62%，顯示我們不僅強力吸引新客戶，也讓既有客群的忠誠度更深。

We continue to deliver a safe and reliable operation, improve efficiency across the system, and support the continued evolution of our product offering. Our people have done an outstanding job navigating a period of significant change. I want to thank them for their continued dedication.

我們持續提供安全且可靠的營運、提升系統整體效率，並支持產品方案的持續演進。我們的同仁在重大變革期間表現非常出色。我要感謝他們持續的投入與奉獻。

With that, I'll turn it over to Tom.

接下來，我把時間交給Tom。

Thanks, Andrew. We continue to demonstrate strong cost discipline to start the year, with first-quarter CASM-X up 2.3% year over year on a capacity increase of 1.5%, and in spite of, a 1.2 point headwind from the removal of six seats on our 737-700 fleet to accommodate new extra legroom seating

謝謝，Andrew。我們在年初持續展現強勁的成本紀律：第一季CASM-X年增2.3%，在運能增加1.5%的情況下，且儘管因在737-700機隊為了配置新的加大腿部空間座位而移除6個座位，帶來1.2個百分點的不利影響。

Fuel prices increased meaningfully during the quarter. We have forecasted a first quarter price per gallon of $2.40 and ended up at $2.73 per gallon, increasing fuel expense by approximately $164 million. In spite of the dramatic increase in fuel cost and other operational headwinds experienced during the quarter, we hit our EPS guide.

本季燃油價格顯著上升。我們原先預估第一季每加侖價格為2.40美元，實際為每加侖2.73美元，使燃油費用增加約1.64億美元。儘管本季燃油成本大幅上升，且還有其他營運逆風，我們仍達成EPS指引。

We also delivered the highest adjusted net margin of the large US airlines during the first quarter, with our cost discipline, initiative contribution, revenue strength, and operational excellence allowing us to deliver the margin expansion that Bob outlined earlier. We ended the quarter with $4.8 billion in liquidity and a leverage ratio of 2.2 times. Having a strong investment-grade balance sheet and high relative margins within the industry is a key strategic advantage for Southwest, especially during times of industry stress, where our strength creates the opportunity for further separation between Southwest and other airlines.

我們也在第一季交出美國大型航空公司中最高的調整後淨利率；憑藉成本紀律、各項舉措的貢獻、營收強勁與卓越營運，使我們得以實現Bob先前提到的利潤率擴張。本季末我們的流動性為48億美元，槓桿比率為2.2倍。擁有強健的投資等級資產負債表，以及在產業中相對較高的利潤率，是西南航空的重要策略優勢，特別是在產業承壓時期；我們的實力能創造機會，進一步拉開西南航空與其他航空公司的差距。

During the quarter, we entered into a $500 million secured term loan facility backed by a small portion of previously unencumbered aircraft, which we used to pay down the final portion of our payroll support program loans, which would have otherwise moved to a higher interest rate in the second quarter. We also returned capital to shareholders through share repurchases of $1.25 billion and $93 million in dividends. We have $450 million remaining in our current share repurchase authorization.

本季我們簽訂了一筆5億美元的有擔保定期貸款融資，以一小部分先前未設定擔保的飛機作為抵押；我們用這筆資金償還薪資支持計畫（Payroll Support Program）貸款的最後一部分，否則該貸款將在第二季轉為更高的利率。我們也透過回購股票12.5億美元與發放股利9,300萬美元向股東返還資本。目前的股票回購授權尚餘4.5億美元。

Looking ahead, our focus remains on managing what we can control, driving efficiency, maintaining disciplined cost management, and investing smartly in our product and operations. We expect second-quarter CASM-X to increase 3.5% to 4% year over year on a capacity increase of 0.5% at the midpoint. Consistent with Bob's comments, based on what we see today, we continue to expect margin expansion and earnings growth in 2026, and will continue to be nimble and opportunistic in the way that we manage the business.

展望未來，我們的重點仍是管理我們可控的事項、推動效率、維持嚴謹的成本管理，並以審慎方式投資於產品與營運。我們預期第二季CASM-X將年增3.5%至4%，以中位數計算，運能增加0.5%。與Bob的評論一致，根據我們目前所見，我們仍預期2026年利潤率擴張與獲利成長，並將持續以靈活且把握機會的方式經營管理業務。

And with that, I'll turn it back to Danielle for Q&A.

接下來，我把時間交回Danielle進行問答。

Thank you, Tom. This concludes our prepared remarks. We will now open the line for analyst questions. To help us manage time efficiently, we ask that you please ask your one or two questions back-to-back at the onset.

謝謝你，Tom。以上為我們的預先準備發言。現在我們將開放分析師提問。為了協助我們有效管理時間，請您在一開始就連續提出一到兩個問題。

(Operator Instructions) Mike Linenberg, Deutsche Bank.

（接線員指示）Mike Linenberg，德意志銀行。

My two questions here. Just, Andrew, the upsell out of the bottom bucket from 20% to 60%, do you have a sense of what that average increase in fare is going from that 20% to 60%?

我有兩個問題。首先，Andrew，從最低票價層級加價升級（upsell）的比例從20%提升到60%，你們是否掌握從20%到60%這個變化所帶來的平均票價提升幅度大概是多少？

And then just my second question to Bob. Just thoughts about potentially competing against the government controlled or a government-owned carrier. I mean, whether it's sound industrial policy or not. So I'll let you roll that one over.

第二個問題給Bob。想請教你對於可能與政府控制或政府持有的航空公司競爭的看法。我的意思是，不論這是否是合理的產業政策。我就把這題交給你回答。

Yeah. Thanks. It's Andrew. So I'll start with the first one. I'm not going to break down it a kind of fare product by fare product, but I will say that obviously, we had an 11.6% yield increase year over year. And at least half of that came from people voluntarily decided to pay more by buying up. So we have kind of secular yield trends going on, and then we have people voluntarily buying up, which creates the extra yield boost. And so net-net, we're super pleased with it.

好的。謝謝。我是Andrew。我先回答第一題。我不會逐一按票價產品拆解說明，但我可以說，很明顯我們的收益率（yield）年增11.6%。其中至少一半來自旅客自願選擇加價升級、支付更高票價。因此，一方面有長期性的收益率趨勢，另一方面也有旅客自願加價升級所帶來的額外收益率提升。總體而言，我們對此非常滿意。

Hey, Mike. It's Bob, and on the second, yeah, it's (inaudible) with Spirit. I mean, it's a tough situation. We've got a lot of people that are affected, but it's a tough industry. I mean, things come around. I've been here 38 years. You have wars. You have fuel spikes. You have economic issues, recessions. And you got to be prepared for the long term as a business because the shocks are going to happen. And that's why we've created a very resilient business here at Southwest Airlines to prepare for those things.

嗨，Mike。我是Bob，第二題的部分，是關於（聽不清）Spirit。我的意思是，這是個艱難的情況。有很多人受到影響，但這個產業本來就很艱難。我的意思是，事情總會循環發生。我在這裡38年了。你會遇到戰爭。你會遇到燃油飆升。你會遇到經濟問題、衰退。作為企業，你必須為長期做好準備，因為衝擊一定會發生。這也是為什麼我們在西南航空打造了一個非常具韌性的企業，以因應這些狀況。

On competition, we're focused on improving ourselves and competing with the top of the industry, and it's showing in the results. If you look at the first quarter, you got an 8-point margin expansion year over year. Our net margin is going to be the best amongst the large US carriers. If you look at the second-quarter guide and the spread between our unit revenues and our unit cost is a 14-point expansion. So we're focused on building a resilient business continuing to optimize from the transformation. Our customers love the products, and that is where all of our focus is.

在競爭方面，我們專注於提升自身，並與業界頂尖同場競爭，成果也反映在結果上。如果你看第一季，我們的利潤率年增擴張了8個百分點。我們的淨利率將會是美國大型航空公司中最佳。如果你看第二季指引，我們的單位營收與單位成本之間的差距擴張了14個百分點。因此，我們專注於打造具韌性的業務，並持續從轉型中優化。我們的客戶喜愛這些產品，而這就是我們所有專注的所在。

Jamie Baker, JPMorgan.

Jamie Baker，摩根大通。

A couple for Tom. So the first question has to do with the second quarter RASM guide. I realize you hadn't previously given us the synced guide, nor had your competitors. But there was enough info out there that we all kind of backed in how the second quarter was looking before the start of the war. And that's my question.

有兩個問題想問Tom。第一個問題與第二季RASM指引有關。我知道你們先前沒有提供同步的指引，你們的競爭對手也沒有。但外界其實有足夠資訊，讓我們在戰爭爆發前，大致推回第二季的走勢。而這就是我的問題。

Since the war start, we've seen several points in second-quarter RASM improvement on your competitors, but your second-quarter guide seems kind of in line with what we were thinking before the war. Maybe we just got lucky, but for the sake of investors on the call, can you tell us how many points of RASM improvement went into this second-quarter outlook as fares began to rise?

自戰爭開始以來，我們看到你們相較競爭對手在第二季RASM上有數個百分點的改善，但你們的第二季指引看起來卻大致符合我們在戰前的預期。也許只是我們運氣好，但為了電話會議上的投資人，你們能否告訴我們，隨著票價開始上漲，有多少個百分點的RASM改善被納入這次第二季展望？

And then second, still considerable consternation around the air traffic liability. It's flat year on year. I know there was some language in last night's 10-Q. Maybe the way to clear this up would be -- and I don't know if you have this at your finger tips, but under the old methodology, what would the ATL have been at the end of the first quarter? I'm asking because squaring a flat ATL out with such strong revenue growth is -- well, it's difficult (technical difficulty).

第二個問題，市場對航空交通負債（air traffic liability）仍有相當多的疑慮。它年對年持平。我知道昨晚的10-Q裡有一些文字說明。也許釐清的方法是——我不確定你是否手邊有資料——在舊方法下，第一季末的ATL會是多少？我之所以問，是因為在營收成長如此強勁的情況下，要把ATL持平這件事對得起來——嗯——很困難(技術問題)。

The RASM guide is us looking at our current trends, which have accelerated and projecting that forward. I know many airlines were talking about fuel recapture and making assumptions about fuel recapture. I think we're -- that's sort of a dangerous game. We are taking our current trends, which are very strong. We have even stronger yield traction than we did in Q1, once again, with stable volumes. We're taking that and pushing it forward.

RASM指引是我們根據目前的趨勢（已加速）並將其向前推估。我知道許多航空公司在談燃油回收（fuel recapture），並對燃油回收做出假設。我認為我們——那有點像是在玩一個危險的遊戲。我們採用的是目前非常強勁的趨勢。在運量穩定的情況下，我們的收益率動能甚至比第一季更強。我們把這些趨勢往前推估。

If there were an acceleration in the environment from today, then there would be upside to that. But we'd rather just take the current trends and project that forward to get a good center-cut RASM guide.

如果從今天起外部環境再加速，那麼指引就會有上行空間。但我們寧可採用目前的趨勢並向前推估，以得到一個較為居中的RASM指引。

Yeah. Jamie, on the ATLs, talking about old versus new methodology, we're not going to get into the detail of exactly what the different percentages are and how they allocate between the different buckets. What we've talked about is that what we've moved toward, as we have this new agreement with Chase, is very much industry standard. It's very much where a lot of our peers are in the way that we either bank into ATL loyalty revenue or recognize it in one of the revenue categories.

是的。Jamie，關於ATL，談舊方法與新方法，我們不會深入到各種不同百分比的細節，以及它們如何在不同項目間分配。我們談過的是，隨著我們與Chase達成新的協議，我們所採用的方式非常符合業界標準。這也非常接近許多同業的作法：要嘛把它累積在ATL的忠誠計畫收入中，要嘛在某個收入類別中認列。

And I think as you look at ATLs just generally, there's nothing unusual to note. You look at the sequential trends. You look how it compares to other carriers. There's nothing unusual to note in what those trends are.

而且我認為，若你整體來看ATL，沒有任何不尋常之處。你看季對季的趨勢。你看它與其他航空公司的比較。這些趨勢沒有任何異常可言。

Conor Cunningham, Melius Research.

Conor Cunningham，Melius Research。

Maybe following up on that response to Jamie's first question. Just why is it a dangerous game to assume some sort of fuel recapture throughout the remainder of the year? Is it that you're fearful of demand destruction? Just I think there's a big debate on just how straightforward like recapture is in general. So if you could just talk about that.

也許延續你對Jamie第一個問題的回覆追問一下。為什麼假設今年剩餘期間會有某種燃油回收是一個危險的遊戲？是因為你們擔心需求被破壞（demand destruction）嗎？我想市場對於回收到底有多直接、普遍而言其實有很大的辯論。所以如果你能談談這點就太好了。

And then, Tom, the capital allocation decision, clearly, things are changing a fair bit. Your free cash flow profile probably took a step back with the rise in fuel. So just trying to understand the buyback going forward from here. You bought back a lot in the first quarter. Your leverage has gone up a little bit. You've talked about that. But if you could just frame up the changes in how you think about capital allocation.

然後，Tom，關於資本配置決策，顯然情勢變化相當大。隨著燃油上漲，你們的自由現金流輪廓可能退了一步。所以我想了解接下來的庫藏股回購。你們在第一季回購了很多。你們的槓桿也上升了一點。你們也談過這點。但如果你能概括說明你們對資本配置思維的變化。

Conor, hey, thanks. It's Bob. I'll take the first, and then Tom will take the second. Just on the fare environment generally. Certainly, we've seen a willingness to move fares along. There's been constructive pricing behavior. But at the end of the day, this, quote, percent of fuel recovery, which is really what you would put on top of your trend, it's going to be dictated by market conditions, not by some academic formula or target of calculated recovery.

Conor，嗨，謝謝。我是Bob。我先回答第一個，然後Tom回答第二個。先談整體票價環境。當然，我們看到市場願意推動票價上調。定價行為是建設性的。但歸根結底，所謂燃油回收的百分比——也就是你會加在既有趨勢之上的那個數字——將由市場狀況決定，而不是由某種學術公式或計算回收率的目標所決定。

So based on that, we believe what is most fair is to put current trends in because you cannot predict at what point consumers and demand is going to be. You're going to begin to see demand destruction based on the pricing environment. So we've run current trends through. If we see upside to that, then that's upside to our guide.

因此，我們認為最合理的做法是把目前的趨勢放進去，因為你無法預測消費者與需求會在什麼時點開始出現變化。你可能會因為定價環境而開始看到需求被破壞。所以我們把目前趨勢納入模型。如果我們看到高於此的表現，那就是我們指引的上行空間。

And bottom line, we're focused on what we can control. We're taking actions against pricing like the bank fee increase. We're taking actions, obviously, along the broader pricing front. We have made some close-in demand shaping reductions to capacity. We already had low capacity in place for the year. So we're taking actions against the things that we can control, aggressive cost discipline, and the fare environment will ultimately play out based on market conditions.

而且最重要的是，我們專注於我們能控制的事情。我們針對定價採取行動，例如調高銀行手續費（bank fee） 。我們也在更廣泛的定價面向採取行動。我們已對近端需求（close-in demand）做了一些引導性的減班／運能下調。我們原本就為今年設定了較低的運能。因此，我們針對可控事項採取行動：嚴格的成本紀律；而票價環境最終將依市場狀況發展。

And, Conor, on capital allocation, as we mentioned in the prepared remarks, having a strong and efficient investment-grade balance sheet is a key differentiator. You hear others talk about their desire to get there. The fact that we're there gives us the ability, of course, to borrow lower rates. And as we think about how we move forward, and just how we navigate, it's all about staying within guardrails that keep us there. And we've been very consistent about what those guardrails are about liquidity. You see where we are relative to that this quarter.

Conor，至於資本配置，正如我們在事先準備的講稿中提到，擁有強健且高效率的投資等級資產負債表是一項關鍵差異化優勢。你會聽到其他人談他們想要達到那個目標。而我們已經在那裡，當然就能以更低利率借款。當我們思考如何向前推進、以及如何因應環境時，核心就是要維持在能讓我們保持投資等級的護欄（guardrails）之內。而我們對這些護欄——尤其是流動性方面——一直都非常一致。你也看到我們本季相對於該標準的位置。

And then we've actually floated down on the debt ratio despite of being in, I think, a more challenging environment as the business and the EBITDAR generation that has occurred in business has improved, we've actually floated down on that debt ratio. And maybe just as a side note, that ratio is a gross debt-to-EBITDA ratio. And so it's, I think, even compared to some of the others out there, a very conservative way to look at it.

此外，儘管我認為環境更具挑戰，隨著業務改善以及EBITDAR的產生能力提升，我們的負債比率其實已經下降。順帶一提，那個比率是總負債對EBITDA（gross debt-to-EBITDA）比率。因此我認為，即使與其他一些公司相比，這也是一種非常保守的衡量方式。

So as it relates to share buybacks, it's always going to come back to staying within those guardrails. And we don't know exactly what's ahead, but we've seen incremental cash generation from the business versus where we were before in spite of today's environment, and we'll just follow that and stay within our guardrails.

所以就股票回購而言，最終都會回到是否能維持在那些護欄之內。我們不確定前方會發生什麼，但即便在今天的環境下，相較於之前，我們仍看到業務帶來的增量現金產生能力；我們會依此推進，並維持在我們的護欄之內。

Catherine O'Brien, Goldman Sachs.

Catherine O'Brien，高盛。

So my first question, really, it's hard to tease apart of the macro from the initiatives, hence the move to EPS guidance. But there were a couple of things you thought could drive upside to your EPS outlook in January, including a step-up in close in extra legroom purchases from corporate travelers and potential market share gains. Can you update us on those efforts specifically, how they've been going versus your initial plan?

所以我的第一個問題，其實很難把總體環境與各項措施的影響拆開來看，因此你們才改用 EPS 指引。不過你們在一月時提到，有幾個因素可能推動 EPS 展望上行，包括企業旅客購買加大腿部空間（extra legroom）的「加購」比例提升，以及潛在的市占率提升。能否就這些具體作為更新一下，進展相較於你們最初的計畫如何？

And then second, a related question and a bit of a follow-up to Mike's. Great to see the big step-up in buy-up in 1Q puts the launch of your new seating products. Can you just break down how much of that is cash sales, loyalty points being redeemed in credit card perks?

第二個問題也相關，算是接續 Mike 的問題。很高興看到第一季加購（buy-up）大幅提升，這也反映你們新座椅產品的推出。你能否拆解一下其中有多少是現金銷售、有多少是以忠誠點數兌換（例如信用卡福利）？

So the corpus we gave in our prepared remarks, the corporate numbers have responded. You saw that they were back weighted to March. So once the assigned seating and extra legroom went in place, we saw an uptick both from current customers, but also new customers. So we're seeing an acceleration of new unique customers in our corporate channels which indicates a kind of desire now to fly Southwest Airlines. And well also within the same existing network of accounts we've seen buy up to the higher fares as corporate policy allows them to buy up. So those numbers we quoted are indicative of the consumers behaving like we anticipated.

就我們在事先準備的談話中提供的資料來看，企業端的數字確實有反應。你也看到這些表現較偏向集中在三月。因此，一旦指定座位與加大腿部空間上線後，我們看到現有客戶的提升，同時也帶來新客戶。所以我們看到企業通路的新獨立客戶（new unique customers）加速成長，這顯示目前有一種想要搭乘西南航空的意願。此外，在同一批既有的企業帳戶網路中，我們也看到在企業差旅政策允許加購的情況下，旅客加購到更高票價等級。因此，我們引用的那些數字顯示消費者的行為與我們預期一致。

And as far as the redemptions, I think cash has accelerated more than redemptions on the fare products, which is consistent with what we wanted to do. We went to more variable burn in our earning -- excuse me, on our Rapid Rewards last year. And so that tends to do on the best flight to put your redemption mix down, the cash mix up.

至於兌換（redemptions），我認為在票價產品上，現金的成長速度比兌換更快，這與我們想達成的方向一致。我們去年在 Rapid Rewards 的點數消耗（burn）機制上改為更具變動性的方式——抱歉，是在 Rapid Rewards 上。因此在最好的航班上，這通常會讓你的兌換占比下降、現金占比上升。

Ravi Shanker, Morgan Stanley.

Ravi Shanker，摩根士丹利。

So maybe just kind of similar but different on the theme of RASM. To the extent possible, if you looked at your earnings for the year, ex fuel on both cost and revenue, so let's say, you were to use Feb 28 assumptions, do you think you're still on track for at least $4 of EPS for the full year, and I think you have pointed to upside to that?

那我可能用一個相近但不同的角度，圍繞 RASM 這個主題。在可能的範圍內，如果你看今年的獲利，把燃油因素排除在成本與營收兩端之外——假設你採用 2 月 28 日的假設——你覺得全年 EPS 至少 4 美元仍在軌道上嗎？我記得你們也提到可能還有上行空間？

And maybe as a follow-up, what innings do you think you're with -- you're in when it comes to monetizing some of these internal initiatives? And kind of how much do you have left in the tank?

再追問一下，你覺得在這些內部措施的變現（monetizing）上，你們現在大概進行到第幾局（innings）？以及大概還剩多少「油箱裡的油」可用？

Yeah, Ravi, thanks so much. I think the short story is, but for fuel, everything is on track and performing sort of at or maybe slightly better than we expected. It's really just a story of fuel. I mean, it's a $0.22 headwind in the first quarter. It's a $1 billion headwind in the second quarter or 10 points of margin. So it's very material. But no, yeah, the only change to how we were thinking about the full year right now is fuel.

好的，Ravi，非常感謝。我想簡單說，除了燃油之外，其他一切都在軌道上，表現大致符合、甚至可能略優於我們的預期。這真的就是燃油的故事。第一季是每股 0.22 美元的逆風。第二季是 10 億美元的逆風，或是 10 個百分點的利潤率影響。所以影響非常重大。但對，沒錯，我們目前對全年看法唯一的改變就是燃油。

And I just did want to address the guide as well. There's been some reporting that we pulled our guide. We did not pull our full-year guide. There are scenarios where absolutely we could still hit the $4. It depends on fuel and revenue trends from here. We just felt like it was not productive to introduce a new guide or a range, given how volatile fuel is day to day to day.

另外我也想回應一下指引（guide）。有一些報導說我們撤回了指引。我們沒有撤回全年指引。在某些情境下，我們當然仍可能達到 4 美元。這取決於接下來的燃油與營收趨勢。只是我們覺得在燃油每天都如此波動的情況下，再提出新的指引或區間並不具建設性。

On your second question of what inning are you in in terms of optimizing the current initiatives, I do believe we have a ways to run. Our original forecast or the plan would be to get to full run rate because these bake in over time based on the booking curve to get to run rate here in the third quarter. And then, of course, we have opportunities to optimize fare product buy-up, optimize the way we think about seat ancillaries.

至於你第二個問題，關於在優化現有措施方面我們處於第幾局，我確實認為我們還有一段路要走。我們原先的預測或計畫，是要隨著訂位曲線（booking curve）在時間中逐步反映，於第三季達到完整的穩態運行水準（full run rate）。然後，當然，我們也有機會去優化票價產品的加購（buy-up）、以及優化我們對座位附加收入（seat ancillaries）的思考方式。

And then on top of that, we're going to continue to enhance the product. You saw the Starlink announcement, continue to make a push into business who loves the new product. I mean, the fact that March revenues on the business side were up 25% is a huge indicator of that. But yeah, our run rate was expected in the third quarter on the initiative performance, and then we have room from there.

此外，我們也會持續強化產品。你看到 Starlink 的公告，我們會持續推進商務客市場，因為他們很喜歡新產品。我的意思是，三月商務端營收年增 25%，就是一個很大的指標。不過是的，我們預期這些措施的表現會在第三季達到穩態運行水準，之後我們仍有進一步提升的空間。

Scott Group, Wolfe Research.

Scott Group，Wolfe Research。

So I just wanted to follow up on that sort of last answer, Bob. Like your comment that the only change really is fuel, and everything else is sort of in line, maybe slightly better. I mean, I guess it feels like everyone else is saying, yes, fuel is a lot higher, but now our revenue assumptions are a lot higher, too, as where the whole industry is sort of working to pass through fuel. Would you not agree with that sort of comment?

我想就你剛才最後的回答再追問一下，Bob。你提到唯一真正的變化是燃油，其他都大致符合、甚至略好於預期。但我想大家其他公司都在說，是的，燃油高很多，但我們的營收假設也高很多，因為整個產業都在努力把燃油成本轉嫁出去。你不同意這樣的說法嗎？

And then maybe just along those lines with fuel, like there's certainly a sense of, hey, the industry -- this is the first sort of like big fuel spike where you guys aren't hedged, and that's, sort of, helping the industry pass through fuel quicker. Like are you approaching fuel pass-through differently than maybe you have in the past? Or maybe do you think you're approaching it differently than the industry?

另外也延伸談燃油：市場上也有一種感覺是，這是你們沒有避險（hedged）的情況下，產業第一次遇到這種大型燃油飆升，而這反而在某種程度上幫助產業更快把燃油成本轉嫁出去。你們對燃油成本轉嫁（pass-through）的做法，是否與過去不同？或者你覺得你們的做法是否與產業其他公司不同？

Yeah. The first question, where would we be but for, is all again hypothetical. You're trying to compare what would the industry have done with pricing and fares as compared to what is happening today. With the rise of fuel, no doubt, there is -- it's a more constructive backdrop, I believe, in terms of pricing. So yeah, I think it's fair to say that the pricing environment is stronger.

是的。第一個問題，「如果不是因為……我們會在哪裡」這仍然是個假設題。你是在比較：若與今天的情況相比，產業在定價與票價上本來會怎麼做。隨著燃油上升，毫無疑問，我認為在定價方面的背景變得更具建設性。所以，是的，我覺得可以說目前的定價環境更強。

And we didn't give you a range. We gave you an at least $4. So we did not give you what that upper range would be. But it's a more instructive fare environment certainly than I would have expected. And then you just look at Southwest performance. We are demonstrating incredible cost discipline.

而且我們沒有給你一個區間。我們給的是「至少 4 美元」。所以我們沒有告訴你上限會是多少。但這確實是一個比我原先預期更具支撐力的票價環境。再看西南航空的表現。我們展現了非常強的成本紀律。

In the first quarter, you had cost come in -- unit costs come in at 2.3%. And then you had a [1.2] headwind in that from seat removal. So the cost discipline, which is structural. It's not timing. It's not odd transactions. It's structural improvements in cost is certainly helping here at Southwest as well, which is the whole point about the fact that looking at revenue trends, it's going to take -- revenues is going to take fuel, but our $4 is absolutely not off the table.

第一季，你看到成本——單位成本——落在 2.3%。而其中有 [1.2] 的逆風來自拆除座位。所以這種成本紀律是結構性的。不是時點因素。不是一次性的特殊交易。而是結構性的成本改善，這當然也在西南航空這邊提供幫助；這也正是我想表達的重點：就營收趨勢來看，營收會去吸收燃油，但我們的 4 美元目標絕對沒有被排除。

And then on hedging, we've talked about this many times. Hedging had become very expensive. The cost of hedging, because of volatility, we were spending about $150 million a year in hedging. So just -- if you look back over a period of time, we just made no sense to hedge.

至於避險，我們已經談過很多次。避險變得非常昂貴。由於波動性，避險成本讓我們每年大約要花 1.5 億美元在避險上。所以——如果你回頭看一段時間的結果，我們認為避險已經沒有意義。

And of course, I mean, you can't predict an extraordinary circumstance like a war. If we all could, you'd hedge and then you wouldn't, and that's -- it's unreasonable to think you could do something like that. I do think the fact that we are all basically unhedged puts the industry in a position where you're going to take and we're all going to take actions to deal with the fact that fuel is rising at an extraordinary rate, which again is why you're seeing a constructive pricing environment right now.

當然，我的意思是，你無法預測像戰爭這樣的特殊情況。如果我們都能預測，你就會避險，然後你又不會避險，而那——認為你能做到那樣的事是不合理的。我確實認為，我們基本上都處於未避險狀態，這讓整個產業處在一個位置：你會採取行動、我們也都會採取行動，來因應燃油以異常速度上漲的事實；這也再次說明了為什麼你現在看到的是一個具建設性的定價環境。

Duane Pfennigwerth, Evercore ISI.

Duane Pfennigwerth，Evercore ISI。

This might be tricky to announce sequentially here. But just the first was on fleet requirements. How has your plan for retirements or used aircraft sales changed, if at all? And if you could walk us through any cash flow -- or cash flow, one, and two, P&L impacts from aircraft sales?

在這裡按順序提問可能有點棘手。不過第一個問題是關於機隊需求。你們對於退役或出售二手機的計畫是否有任何改變？如果有，改變了什麼？另外，能否帶我們梳理一下飛機出售對現金流——或現金流（第一）以及（第二）損益表（P&L）的影響？

And then Bob, my follow-up. Organizationally, Southwest has been very focused on rolling out these initiatives, executing on these initiatives. Are you now in a better place or more prepared to consider potential consolidation scenarios?

然後 Bob，我的追問。在組織層面，西南航空一直非常專注於推出這些計畫並執行這些計畫。你們現在是否處於更好的位置、或更有準備去考慮潛在的產業整併情境？

Hey, Duane, I'll take your first one on the fleet side. You've seen the numbers that we've talked about for this year and the 60s for aircraft coming in new from Boeing. No change there. We're feeling confident about what we're seeing out of Boeing. Every month, things seem to just be getting better and better there about their ability to deliver on time.

嗨，Duane，我先回答你第一個關於機隊的問題。你也看過我們談到的今年數字：從波音交付的新機大約是 60 多架。這部分沒有改變。我們對於目前從波音看到的情況感到有信心。每個月看起來他們準時交付的能力都在持續變得更好。

And so the retirements that we have are very much tied to the aircraft that are coming in. You've seen what we've guided around both for this year and kind of high-level commentary that we've given for the next several years around capacity. No major changes there. And so the quantity of retirements really will just depend on the timing with which those new aircraft deliver, which again are becoming more and more predictable by the week.

因此，我們的退役計畫與新機交付是高度連動的。你也看過我們對今年的指引，以及我們對未來幾年運能所提供的較高層次評論。這裡沒有重大變化。所以退役的數量主要取決於新機交付的時點；而這些交付時點也正變得一週比一週更可預測。

Duane, on your second. Organizationally, I think the -- there's been a lot of organizational efficiency that's been put into place here at Southwest at both on the front line and then especially here in sort of the corporate side of the business in the last year. The business is moving at an incredibly agile pace in terms of change. You're seeing that come through in the execution of the transformation and then continuing to add focus on our customer, add attributes that our customer walks. So we're moving at a pace that I've just not seen here at Southwest.

Duane，關於你的第二個問題。在組織層面，我認為——過去一年西南航空在前線以及特別是在企業端（公司端）的業務上，都導入了大量的組織效率措施。就變革而言，業務正以極其敏捷的速度推進。你可以從轉型的執行中看到這一點，同時我們也持續更聚焦於客戶，增加客戶重視的屬性。我們正以一個我在西南航空從未見過的速度在前進。

So our ability to deal with any issue, I think, is better than it was a year or two ago period. We don't comment on what consolidation and what could happen in the industry. There's lots of rumors out there. We're focused on what we can control. There's no value in focusing on rumors.

因此，我認為我們處理任何議題的能力，比一兩年前都更好。我們不評論整併或產業可能發生的事情。外面有很多傳聞。我們專注於我們能控制的事。把注意力放在傳聞上沒有價值。

There's no value focusing on fuel because you don't have one thing that you can do about it. But things change, and if some of that were to become real, then obviously, we would take a look and decide what our response to that would be. But we don't comment on those things.

把注意力放在燃油上也沒有價值，因為你沒有任何一件事能真正改變它。但情勢會變，如果其中一些事情變成現實，那麼很顯然我們會評估並決定我們的因應方式。但我們不評論那些事情。

Atul Maheswari, UBS.

Atul Maheswari，瑞銀（UBS）。

Based on the full-year guide on capacity, it implies that the back half capacity growth is going to be closer to 3%. So you're accelerating capacity in the back half at a time when others are cutting. So just some rationale for the implied capacity growth acceleration in the back half in this fuel backdrop would be helpful.

根據全年運能指引來看，這意味著下半年運能成長會更接近 3%。所以在其他公司都在削減的時候，你們卻在下半年加速擴張運能。在目前這樣的燃油背景下，能否說明一下下半年隱含的運能成長加速的理由？

And then as my second question on the cost out performance, I know you mentioned those are structural. But if you could provide some key buckets of the cost outperformance, or the improvement that you're seeing currently, that would be helpful along those lines.

然後我的第二個問題是關於成本優於預期的表現。我知道你提到那些是結構性的。但如果你能提供一些成本優於預期的關鍵項目（bucket），或你們目前看到的改善來源，會很有幫助。

If I can add just one quick one is, what's the thought -- what should we think about the CASM-X in the back half on the 3%-ish capacity growth?

如果我可以再快速加問一個：在下半年約 3% 的運能成長下，CASM-X 應該怎麼看？

Yeah. Atul, it's Bob. I'll take the first, and then Tom will take the second on cost. We entered the year 2026 with a very disciplined cost plan, capacity up 2 to 3. We've been modestly trimming that as we move throughout the year. I would call that sort of normal demand shaping where you take a look in their flights that just don't make sense anymore, and you either cut that capacity, or you cut that capacity, and then you redeploy.

好的。Atul，我是 Bob。我先回答第一個，然後 Tom 會回答第二個關於成本的問題。我們在 2026 年一開始就制定了非常嚴謹的成本計畫，運能成長 2% 到 3%。隨著年度推進，我們也在小幅下修。我會把這稱為正常的需求塑形：你去檢視一些已經不再合理的航班，然後要嘛削減那部分運能，要嘛削減後再重新部署。

We've also had aggressive with moves like you saw with O'Hare and Dulles to take underperforming markets and deal with those and then move capacity to markets that are performing, the San Diego and Nashville, et cetera, of the network. We've taken our second-quarter capacity down, as you saw. We're now expected to grow roughly 0.5 point. And I just would point to the fact that we'll continue that close in demand shaping and capacity activity in the third quarter. We'll do that in the fourth quarter.

我們也採取了更積極的動作，例如你看到我們在 O'Hare 和 Dulles 的調整：把表現不佳的市場拿出來處理，然後把運能移到表現較好的市場，例如我們航網中的聖地牙哥、納什維爾等。如你所見，我們已把第二季運能下調。目前預期大約成長 0.5 個百分點。我也要指出，我們會在第三季持續進行臨近出發日的需求塑形與運能調整。第四季也會這麼做。

So I understand your point, but I would not read through -- I wouldn't read that through as the final number. But again, you've heard others talking about cutting capacity. We started there. We started with a well thought out conservative, constructive capacity plan for the year at 2 to 3 points, and that's now become 2. So you're seeing others come back to us, not others go below our capacity plans.

所以我理解你的觀點，但我不會——我不會把那個數字視為最終結果。不過，你也聽到其他公司在談削減運能。我們一開始就走在那條路上。我們以一個經過深思熟慮、保守且具建設性的年度運能計畫起步，原本是成長 2 到 3 個百分點，而現在已變成 2。所以你看到的是其他人往我們這邊靠攏，而不是其他人低於我們的運能計畫。

And Atul, on the cost question. The cost performance that you're seeing, and Bob referenced this a bit earlier. But this is structural, this is representing great work that's happening across a lot of the teams, not relating to timing or transactions or other things. And as you think about some of the bigger buckets that are there, for us, the people expense represents just shy of half of our cost structure. And so we need to make sure that as we're operating that we're doing that in an efficient way.

Atul，關於成本問題。你現在看到的成本表現，Bob 先前也稍微提到。但這是結構性的，代表許多團隊正在做出很棒的工作，並非與時點、交易或其他因素相關。當你思考較大的成本項目時，對我們而言，人員費用占我們成本結構的比重接近一半。因此，我們必須確保在營運時以有效率的方式來運作。

You've heard us talk a lot about how important it is that we continue to run a really high-quality operation. It is a cost-efficient thing to be running as good an operation as we are now. And so we look to be as efficient as we can be out there. Some of the other big buckets that we have, technology for one, we have come a long way. Lauren and her team are just phenomenal in the tool that they built.

你也聽過我們多次談到，持續維持高品質營運有多重要。把營運做得像我們現在這樣好，本身就是一件具成本效率的事。因此我們會盡可能在現場端做到最高效率。另外一些較大的項目，例如科技，我們已經走了很長一段路。Lauren 和她的團隊在他們打造的工具上表現非常出色。

But we did have a bit of catch-up that we were doing, and that gives us the ability to kind of back up a bit while still maintaining the strong trajectory in technology transformation. So you're seeing some savings there.

但我們先前確實有一些追趕進度的投入，而這讓我們在仍能維持科技轉型強勁軌跡的同時，得以稍微放慢一些。所以你會在那裡看到一些節省。

And then maybe the third and final bucket I'll raise is just on the kind of maintenance and fleet side of things. As you're going through a replacement of older, less efficient aircraft and replacing those with brand new, more efficient 737 MAXs, you just want to make sure that you're doing that as far as component maintenance and other things. You're doing that in the most efficient way that you can.

第三個、也是最後一個我想提的項目，是維修與機隊相關的部分。當你在汰換較老、效率較低的飛機，並以全新、效率更高的 737 MAX 取代時，你會希望確保在零組件維修與其他事項上，都以你所能做到的最有效率方式來執行。

I think we are one of the best in the world at doing that type of optimization work. And you're seeing that showing up in the number quarter after quarter after quarter as we do that.

我認為我們在做那類型的最佳化工作方面，是全球最頂尖的公司之一。而且你會看到，隨著我們持續這麼做，這一點在每一季、每一季、每一季的數字上都反映出來。

Savi Syth, Raymond James.

Savi Syth，Raymond James。

Maybe, I think Duane -- just to follow up on Duane's question there. Just curious what the aircraft sale benefits were in 1Q and expected in 2Q in the P&L, in terms of understanding what the core cost is? And maybe for the second question, just to follow up on that. Just how are you thinking about aircraft sales going forward? Because it feels like as you catch up to this kind of delayed MAX delivery that we will see this kind of continue for a few years yet. So just kind of curious, your thoughts there.

也許，我想 Duane——只是跟進一下 Duane 剛才的問題。我只是好奇，從損益表的角度來看，1Q 的飛機出售帶來了哪些利益，以及 2Q 預期會有多少，這有助於理解核心成本是什麼？另外第二個問題，也想再跟進一下。你們未來如何看待飛機出售？因為感覺隨著你們追趕這種延遲的 MAX 交付，這種情況可能還會持續好幾年。所以只是想聽聽你們的想法。

Yeah. Thanks, Savi. We had 5 aircraft sales that we did. There were three 737-700s. There were two 737-800s that we sold. So those five aircraft. And about a $30 million or $40 million book impact there. So not super material to the cost numbers that you saw. So everything you're seeing in the cost numbers is around the structural changes that we're making to the business.

是的。謝謝，Savi。我們做了 5 架飛機的出售。其中有三架是 737-700。另外有兩架 737-800 我們也賣掉了。所以總共這五架。帳面影響大約是 3,000 萬到 4,000 萬美元。所以對你看到的成本數字來說，並不是特別重大。因此，你在成本數字中看到的一切，都是圍繞著我們正在對業務進行的結構性變革。

John Godyn, Citigroup.

John Godyn，Citigroup。

Bob, I wanted to follow up on the topic of consolidation. And it's not about rumors, news or anything like that. I mean you were pivotal and central to the AirTran deal many years ago. I feel like there must be learnings from that. There must be kind of a philosophy on when consolidation or being involved in it matters and adds value, when it doesn't.

Bob，我想跟進一下整併這個主題。這不是在談謠言、新聞或任何那類事情。我的意思是，多年前你在 AirTran 交易中扮演了關鍵且核心的角色。我覺得那裡面一定有一些經驗教訓。也一定有一套理念：什麼時候整併或參與整併是重要且能創造價值的，什麼時候則不是。

I'm hoping for just more historical context and plugging into the company's philosophy today rather than any commentary on what's going out there right now.

我希望你能提供更多歷史脈絡，並連結到公司今天的理念，而不是評論目前外界正在發生的事情。

Yeah, John, thanks for the question. And it's pretty basic in my mind. Again, as you sort of go back and reflect on AirTran, it -- and yeah, I was involved in that deal heavily. It's, number one, got to make sense. In other words, you have -- the pieces that get put together have to result in synergies.

是的，John，謝謝你的問題。在我看來其實很基本。同樣地，當你回頭反思 AirTran，那——而且是的，我確實深度參與了那筆交易。第一，它必須合理。換句話說，你把各個部分組合在一起，必須能產生綜效。

They have to result in goodness in terms of geographies served. You have to be compatible enough thinking about things like aircraft, cultures. So at the end of the day, if it doesn't paper out financially and other, it doesn't make sense to pursue it. Second, you've got to have a chance to pass muster and get it approved. If it's -- no matter how good it might look, if you have too much overlap as an example and your odds of approval are low, it's too risky.

它必須在服務的地理區域等方面帶來正面效益。你們在飛機、文化等方面也必須有足夠的相容性。所以歸根結底，如果在財務上以及其他層面算不出來、說不通，就不值得去追求。第二，你必須有機會通過審查並獲得核准。如果——不管看起來多好，假設重疊太多，導致核准機率很低，那風險就太大了。

And no matter what you think, it's not something that you can pursue. And we've always been pro-competition, pro-consumer here at Southwest. So the combo has to be something that's good for your customers. It's got to, in particular, add geographies, add to the network, potentially add products, but serve them in a better way. And that's how we thought about AirTran.

而且不管你怎麼想，那都不是你能去推動的事情。在 Southwest，我們一向支持競爭、支持消費者。所以這個組合必須對你的客戶有利。它必須，特別是，能增加服務的地理區域、擴大航網，可能也能增加產品，但要以更好的方式服務他們。這就是我們當時看待 AirTran 的方式。

It met all of those. The geographic combination made sense. The synergies were there, the cultures were similar. And at the end of the day, that was a great thing for Southwest Airlines. It can't be simply because, hey, it's a good time to do something, or the rest of the industry is doing something. It has to make sense fundamentally.

它符合上述所有條件。地理上的組合是合理的。綜效存在，文化也相近。而且最終，那對 Southwest Airlines 來說是一件很棒的事。不能只是因為，嘿，現在是做點什麼的好時機，或是因為產業其他人都在做。它必須在根本上說得通。

Tom Fitzgerald, TD Cowen.

Tom Fitzgerald，TD Cowen。

Just curious on -- just within the outlook for 2Q RASM, or just even kind of broadly over the balance of the year, do you anticipate load factors getting back up into the 80% range? And this is just one concern we hear a lot from investors, like as long as it's in the 70% range, there's like that risk that there's maybe -- or a concern that there's share loss in some of the more competitive markets.

想請教一下——在 2Q RASM 的展望之內，或甚至更廣泛地看今年剩餘時間，你們是否預期載客率會回到 80% 的區間？這只是我們常從投資人那裡聽到的一個擔憂：只要還在 70% 的區間，就會有一種風險——或擔心——在一些競爭更激烈的市場可能正在流失市占。

Yeah, I'll take that. So if you look at our Q1 RASM and you kind of flip back to Q1 of 2019, you see our RASM on a stage-adjusted basis has outperformed the carriers that report so far, the big three in particular. And so obviously, that's the metric that matters whether year over year, year over six year, you drive RASM.

好的，我來回答。如果你看我們 Q1 的 RASM，並回頭對照 2019 年 Q1，你會看到在航段長度調整後的基礎上，我們的 RASM 表現優於目前已公布的航空公司，尤其是三大航空公司。所以很明顯，無論是年對年、或是相較六年前，能否推動 RASM 才是關鍵指標。

As Bob mentioned we cut O'Hare, and I got employee questions about, hey, Andrew, the flights were always full. Well, full flight does not mean a profitable flight. And so one of the most ruinous things you can do in the airline business is chase market share or chase volume. You have to go after RASM and our RASM is performing with us on a year-over-year basis, year-over-six-year basis, year-over-seven-year basis. It is working for us. And so we'll continue to focus on that.

如 Bob 提到，我們縮減了 O'Hare，我也收到員工的提問：嘿，Andrew，那些航班不是一直都滿載嗎？但滿載航班不代表是獲利航班。所以在航空業裡，你能做的最具破壞性的事情之一，就是追逐市占或追逐運量。你必須追求 RASM，而我們的 RASM 在年對年、相較六年前、相較七年前的基礎上都在表現。這對我們是有效的。因此我們會持續把重點放在這上面。

If that results in load going up, so be it. And in our calculations, we look at the incremental cost to carry as well as incremental ancillary we get as we price, and we accept and reject demand every day. So for us, it's working, we'll continue to push RASM as hard as we can, and we're seeing extraordinary good yield traction right now, and that's -- that drives -- if that's a vehicle for higher RASM, we will pursue it.

如果因此讓載客率上升，那也無妨。而在我們的計算中，我們在定價、以及每天接受或拒絕需求時，會同時考量每多載一位旅客的增量成本，以及我們能獲得的增量附加收入。所以對我們而言，這是有效的；我們會繼續盡可能用力推動 RASM，而且我們現在看到非常好的票價收益（yield）動能，而那——會推動——如果那是提高 RASM 的一個工具，我們就會去做。

Brandon Oglenski, Barclays.

Brandon Oglenski，Barclays。

I mean, maybe if I can just follow up on that because there seems to be like this fickle market view that a high-teens RASM guide is somehow indicative that Southwest is incrementally losing share. And I know we've kind of beat around the bush around this, but I don't know, Bob or Andrew, do you want to comment on that?

我的意思是，也許我可以再跟進一下，因為市場似乎有種反覆無常的看法：RASM 指引在十幾%的高檔，某種程度上就代表 Southwest 正在逐步流失市占。我知道我們有點繞著這個話題打轉，但我不確定，Bob 或 Andrew，你們想對此評論一下嗎？

And then maybe incrementally, for the second part of my question, how dynamic have you gotten to pricing these incremental products that you just haven't had before? Is there more upside to come on figuring out what people's value they put on these products is?

然後也許再延伸一下，作為我問題的第二部分，你們在對這些以前沒有的新增產品進行定價時，已經變得多動態？在釐清人們對這些產品的價值認知方面，是否還有更多上行空間？

Sure, I'll start. I mean, you're growing slower, as Bob mentioned. So therefore, your share will drop, and that should be fine. You look at the number of people on board your aircraft, once again, footing back to pre-pandemic, the number of the people in the aircraft is flat to up.

當然，我先開始。我的意思是，如 Bob 提到，你們的成長速度較慢。因此，你的市占會下降，而這應該是可以接受的。你看看機上乘客人數，再次回到疫情前的水準來看，機上的人數是持平到增加的。

The aircraft have gotten bigger. And so our aircraft size is 160. The big three, I think, is about 120, 130. So it's a much bigger aircraft size. Other airlines with big aircraft also see this challenge. And so I don't think it's anything to do about inherently attractiveness of Southwest Airlines.

飛機變得更大了。所以我們的機型座位數是 160。我想三大航空公司大約是 120、130。所以我們的機型座位數大得多。其他擁有大型飛機的航空公司也會看到這個挑戰。因此我不認為這與 Southwest Airlines 本身的吸引力有任何內在關係。

You see all the metrics we talked about is we have always been attractive. We got incrementally attractive with these new products. And we were monetizing that mostly on the back of yield in a high-fuel environment, that is the path to prosperity is getting it on the back of yield.

你看，我們談到的所有指標顯示，我們一直都很有吸引力。隨著這些新產品推出，我們的吸引力又進一步提升。而我們主要是在高燃油價格環境下，透過收益率（yield）來變現；也就是說，通往繁榮的路徑，就是靠收益率來實現。

And I just want to add a little perspective here because now the narrative is, yes, 17.5% guided RASM is not enough. And then even though load factor is up, somehow we must be losing share, and there's -- our customers love these new products, and there's incredible demand. But if you just go back a bit here over the last 18 months, the narratives about Southwest from the naysayers, I think they're becoming increasingly desperate a bit here.

我只是想在這裡補充一點觀點，因為現在的敘事是：沒錯，指引的RASM成長17.5%還不夠。然後即使載客率上升，不知怎地我們一定是在流失市占；而且——我們的客戶很喜歡這些新產品，需求也非常強勁。但如果你稍微回頭看過去18個月，那些唱衰者對西南航空的敘事，我覺得他們現在有點愈來愈急了。

First, it was Southwest won't change. And then it became, well, Southwest can't execute the changes that they've talked about. And then it was, well, they got them done but their customers aren't going to want to buy the new products. Now there's some wonky argument about accounting and ATL and then we're losing share.

一開始是說西南航空不會改變。接著變成：嗯，西南航空無法執行他們談到的改變。然後又變成：好吧，他們做到了，但客戶不會想買新產品。現在又出現一些關於會計與ATL的奇怪論點，然後說我們正在流失市占。

And if you just step back, ignore all that junk and look at the results, terrific product demand. Best net margin of the large US carriers, a 17.5% unit revenue growth in the second quarter, which is off the charts. Business revenue up 25% in March. The transformation is working. Customers love the product, and it is transforming our financial results. And I just would say, too, you've got to always examine the motives of those that are pushing a narrative, especially one that's increasingly irrational.

但如果你退一步，忽略那些雜音，只看結果：產品需求非常好。我們是美國大型航空公司中最佳的淨利率，第二季單位營收成長17.5%，這是非常驚人的。3月商務營收成長25%。轉型正在奏效。客戶喜歡這個產品，而且它正在改變我們的財務結果。我也想說，你必須時常檢視那些推動某種敘事者的動機，尤其是當那個敘事愈來愈不理性時。

Sheila Kahyaoglu, Jefferies.

Sheila Kahyaoglu，Jefferies。

Maybe just related to all the fuel comments and capacity comments, Bob, I could see why you're frustrated at the same time, too. I guess at what fuel price do you make further changes to capacity?

也許就燃油與運能的評論來說，Bob，我能理解你為什麼感到挫折，同時也是。我想問的是，在什麼燃油價格水準下，你們會對運能做進一步調整？

And as a follow-up to that, how do we think about when fuel prices and how fuel prices impact your aircraft sales or deliveries? And how you think about changing them for how long they stay at these elevated levels?

另外追問一下，我們該如何看待燃油價格、以及燃油價格如何影響你們的飛機出售或交付？以及當燃油價格在這些高檔水準維持一段時間時，你們會如何思考並調整？

Yeah. I'll -- maybe Tom on the second one. I'll take the first one. It's really hypothetical because fuel is moving around. I mean, really day-to-day, you're seeing 8%, 10% moves day-to-day.

是。第二個問題也許讓Tom來回答。第一個我來回應。這其實是個假設性問題，因為燃油價格一直在波動。我的意思是，真的每天都會看到8%、10%的日內波動。

We are -- again, and you're not in control of exactly how fast and how much you can raise fares. There's market dynamics at play. But there is a lot of constructive fare movement. We're seeing that. And as clearly revenues and therefore, fares are underneath the increase in fuel. So we've not caught the increase in fuel by any stretch of the imagination, which is why you're continuing to see fares move in the industry.

我們——再說一次，你並不能完全掌控票價能以多快、多大幅度上調。市場動態在其中發揮作用。但票價確實出現了不少建設性的上行走勢。我們看到了。而且很明顯，營收、因此也包括票價，仍落後於燃油上漲的幅度。所以我們完全還沒有追上燃油上漲，這也是為什麼你會持續看到產業票價在上調。

So I can't predict exactly where fuel is going. And so therefore, I can't predict exactly where pricing and fares are going, which is why I indicated we're just using the forward curve. We'll continue to be dynamic. We'll continue to react.

所以我無法精準預測燃油會走到哪裡。因此我也無法精準預測定價與票價會走到哪裡，這也是我說我們只是使用遠期曲線的原因。我們會持續保持動態。我們會持續做出反應。

We came in, again, to the year with a very disciplined capacity plan and we'll continue to be aggressive in redeploying capacity to better-performing markets. And then, yes, if really -- if fuel really moves up from here, obviously, we would take further actions. But I think trying to -- trying to indicate what those might be is just speculation at this point. Just know that we'll be aggressive though.

我們今年一開始就採取非常嚴謹自律的運能規劃，並且會持續積極把運能重新部署到表現更好的市場。然後，是的，如果——如果燃油真的從這裡再往上走，顯然我們會採取進一步行動。但我認為現在試圖——試圖指出那些行動會是什麼，現階段都只是臆測。你只要知道我們會很積極就好。

And then the follow-on question on aircraft, having such a large fleet of mostly unencumbered owned airplanes gives us tons of flexibility. So that will really just be an output of how and where we're looking to grow, and to what levels and the flexibility is there to retire or retain to adjust to whatever the environment might be.

至於後續關於飛機的問題，擁有一支規模很大、且多數為無負擔（未設抵押/未受限制）的自有機隊，讓我們具備極大的彈性。因此這將主要取決於我們打算如何、以及在哪裡成長，成長到什麼水準；而我們也具備彈性，可視環境選擇汰換或保留，以因應任何可能的情勢。

Dan McKenzie, Seaport Global.

Dan McKenzie，Seaport Global。

So my question is similar to a prior one trying to get at M&A philosophically. And I guess my question really is, how sacrosanct is the investment-grade rating? And is that something you'd ever be willing to put at risk temporarily if a deal checked all the boxes that you talked about, Bob?

我的問題和前面一個類似，想從理念層面了解併購（M&A）。我真正想問的是：投資級評等有多不可侵犯？如果有一筆交易符合你提到的所有條件，Bob，你們是否曾願意在短期內承擔讓投資級評等面臨風險的可能？

And then secondly, I guess, Andrew, Southwest is doing so much on merchandising. And just going back to that question about how much room is left in the tank, the revenue upsell at the time of sale seems pretty compelling, pretty -- communicated pretty well. But I'm curious how big the upsell opportunity is after the sale, what you're doing here? And what percent of revenue that could ultimately be?

第二個問題，我想問Andrew，西南航空在商品化銷售（merchandising）上做了很多。回到那個「還有多少成長空間」的問題，銷售當下的營收加購（upsell）看起來相當有吸引力，而且——溝通得也很清楚。但我好奇的是，成交之後的加購機會有多大？你們在這方面做了什麼？而這最終可能占營收的百分之多少？

So Dan, I'll take the first one, and this goes to comments I made earlier. The investment-grade rating for us is a differentiator. There are only three airlines in the world that have an investment-grade rating. And so as we look at the activities that we do, just know that that, along with the guardrails that I referenced earlier, are a filter that we use to evaluate different opportunities or different decisions that we make within the business.

Dan，我先回答第一個，這也呼應我先前的評論。投資級評等對我們而言是一項差異化優勢。全球只有三家航空公司擁有投資級評等。因此在我們評估各項活動時，請你知道，這一點以及我先前提到的那些護欄（guardrails），都是我們用來評估不同機會或在業務中做出不同決策時的篩選條件。

And on your second question, I think when we originally gave some of our values before for initiatives that you kind of assigned seat extra legroom. We talked about how we expected the -- kind of that to improve as we kind of bake it in from this year into next year. So obviously, there is still upside to come from it.

至於你的第二個問題，我想當初我們對一些措施給出價值預估時——你提到的那種可分配座位、額外腿部空間（extra legroom）。我們談到過，隨著今年導入並延伸到明年、逐步內化（bake it in），我們預期它會有所改善。所以很明顯，這部分仍有上行空間。

At time of sale, we are seeing very good traction as we indicated by our -- in our prepared remarks. But we're also still continuing to optimize that. We're happy with it.

在銷售當下，我們看到非常好的進展，正如我們——在事先準備的發言中所提到的。但我們也仍在持續優化。我們對目前的表現感到滿意。

The stand-alone seats, some of that comes at sale, but there is a very kind of sharp inside-the-week before departure booking curve there, and we have dynamic pricing tools that we have deployed to help us with that, and we expect a benefit there, all those in the same vein that we expect to improve from this year into next. And there's also other opportunities that Bob talked about that we're looking at to make -- taking into the next level, including getting some more share shift out of this.

至於單獨販售座位，其中一部分發生在購買當下，但在起飛前一週內的訂位曲線非常陡峭；我們已部署動態定價工具來協助這件事，並預期能帶來效益——這些都屬於同一脈絡，也就是我們預期從今年到明年會持續改善。此外，還有Bob提到的其他機會，我們正在研究如何——把它提升到下一個層級，包括從中取得更多的市占轉移（share shift）。

So overall, as Bob said, it's working better than we expected. There is implied room to come in our business case, and we think there's room on top of that for upside.

總體而言，如Bob所說，它的效果比我們預期更好。我們的商業案例（business case）本身就隱含仍有可發揮空間，而我們也認為在此之上還有額外的上行潛力。

Chris Wetherbee, Wells Fargo.

Chris Wetherbee，Wells Fargo。

I just want to try to make sure I understand this. I was going to ask this question that's been asked a bunch of time, but I'm just curious. Since March 1, how many fare increases have you put through? Just putting initiatives aside, I guess, how many have you participated in the industry just to give a sense of kind of how that's played out?

我只是想確認我理解正確。我本來要問一個已經被問很多次的問題，但我只是好奇。自3月1日以來，你們一共推動了多少次票價上調？先把各項措施放一邊，我想問的是，你們在產業內一共參與了多少次調價，好讓我們了解大致是怎麼演變的？

I count five broad industry-wide fare moves and another one underway today.

我數了一下，全產業範圍內有五次大規模票價調整，今天還有一次正在進行中。

Have you participated in all of them?

你們都有參與全部這些調整嗎？

Those all stuck and which means all carriers participated.

那些都站穩了，這表示所有航空公司都有參與。

David Vernon, Bernstein.

David Vernon，Bernstein。

So I guess I should say -- yeah. So if you look at the Rapid Rewards information that's in the earnings release, they're talking about enrollments up 37% and tier-status earners increasing 62%. Is there any color you can give us around how the card program is performing as far as total spend or sign-ups for the card? Just trying to figure out like how the card program is performing during this period.

所以我想我應該說——是的。所以如果你看一下財報新聞稿裡的 Rapid Rewards 資訊，他們提到註冊人數成長 37%，而等級身分（tier-status）達標者增加 62%。就信用卡計畫的整體刷卡金額或辦卡（sign-ups）而言，你們能否提供一些補充說明，讓我們了解該計畫的表現？只是想釐清在這段期間信用卡計畫的表現如何。

I would say that we saw improvement with the rollout in the mid last year of the new card. Our remuneration was up 8% approximately year over year, which is, I think, just shy of the other airlines, and we don't yet have a high-fee credit card, which is a source of much of the gains across the card industry. And so we're really encouraged that without that key aspect, we're at 8%, and we expect that to accelerate if we can offer that kind of card.

我會說，自從去年年中推出新卡之後，我們看到有所改善。我們的報酬（remuneration）年增約 8%，我認為這略低於其他航空公司；而我們目前還沒有高年費信用卡，而那正是信用卡產業許多成長的來源。因此我們很受鼓舞的是，在缺少那個關鍵要素的情況下，我們仍有 8% 的成長；如果我們能提供那類型的卡片，我們預期成長會加速。

Chris Stathoulopoulos, SIG.

Chris Stathoulopoulos，SIG。

Okay. I'll keep it to one call, so one question. On demand elasticity, destruction, although I prefer the former, I guess, term there. If you could contextualize the part of your network that is perhaps more resilient than others.

好的。我就只問一個問題。關於需求彈性、需求破壞（雖然我比較偏好前者這個說法）。你能否把你們航網中可能比其他部分更具韌性的區塊放在脈絡中說明一下？

So whether it's some inherent pricing power due to network architecture or otherwise, as we consider what is likely going to be, I guess, some weakening at certain parts of this K-shaped recovery, however you want to describe it. But parts of your network that you believe, for whatever reason, are more resilient or have some inherent pricing power around them?

也就是說，是否因為航網架構或其他因素而具備某種內在的定價能力；當我們思考在這種 K 型復甦的某些部分可能會出現走弱——不管你想怎麼形容。但就你們航網而言，有哪些部分你們認為基於某些原因更具韌性，或具備某種內在的定價能力？

It's Andrew. We are seeing extraordinarily strong fares and strong demand across the entire network across all customer segments, across different travel types. The only place that's seen weakness are the Mexican beach resorts and Hawaii because of weather and political activities. And even those have seen a sequential improvement in the last couple of weeks. So it is -- when we say broad-based, we very much mean broad-based.

我是 Andrew。我們在整個航網、所有客群、不同旅行型態上，都看到異常強勁的票價與強勁的需求。唯一看到疲弱的地方是墨西哥海灘度假區和夏威夷，原因是天氣與政治活動。即便如此，過去幾週也看到逐步改善。所以——當我們說是廣泛性的，我們確實是指非常廣泛。

And the other thing I would add, just with the fundamental change in the financial performance of the business and the fundamental change in our margins, whatever is happening and the customer response, so at some point, you do begin to see some pushback on fare increases, which, again, as Andrew said, there's absolutely no sign of that obviously, with higher margins now, top of the industry margins. And that performance allows us to look at the business and markets in a different way because they're performing.

另外我想補充的是，隨著公司財務表現的根本性改變，以及我們利潤率的根本性改變，不論市場發生什麼、客戶如何反應，到了某個程度，你確實會開始看到對票價上調的反彈；但如 Andrew 所說，目前完全看不到那種跡象。現在我們的利潤率更高，且是業界頂尖的利潤率。而這樣的表現讓我們能以不同的方式看待業務與市場，因為它們正在發揮效益。

So a market flipping from a performer to an underperformer is very different when you're near breakeven than when you're producing top-of-the-industry margins.

因此，當你接近損益兩平時，某個市場從表現良好轉為表現不佳，和當你正在創造業界頂尖利潤率時，是非常不同的。

Thank you for that, Bob. We'll have time for one last question.

謝謝你，Bob。我們還有時間再問最後一個問題。

Michael Goldie, BMO Capital Markets.

Michael Goldie，BMO Capital Markets。

Going back to costs, for maintenance expense, is the performance that we're seeing driven by delivery of new aircraft and then divesting of older equipment? Or is there anything else changing that's driving that maintenance performance?

回到成本面，關於維修費用，我們看到的表現是否是由於交付新飛機、同時處分較舊設備所帶動？還是還有其他變化在推動維修表現？

And then just a follow-up on head count. We've seen head count per ASM climb quite a bit since 2019. I get that part of that is investing in network resiliency. Are we at the right levels? Or are you going to grow into these resources over time?

另外再追問一下人力編制。自 2019 年以來，我們看到每 ASM 的人力數量上升不少。我理解其中一部分是投資於航網韌性。我們現在的人力水位是合適的嗎？還是你們會隨時間讓業務成長去消化這些資源？

Thanks, Michael. So on the maintenance side, there's several buckets that are there. What you referenced, which is the ability to be efficient in the way that you are retiring a fleet type, that's certainly part of it. And I think we've consistently, quarter to quarter to quarter, gotten more and more efficient in the way that we're doing that, especially as it relates to the 737-700, the smaller, less fuel-efficient aircraft, as we're bringing the new MAX 8s into the fleet. So that is definitely a contributor. And we have many, many years ahead of that continuing to occur for us as we continue that transition with hundreds of airplanes -- newer airplanes on order.

謝謝，Michael。在維修方面，裡面有幾個類別。你提到的，也就是在汰換某一機隊機型時能以更有效率的方式進行，這當然是其中一部分。而且我認為我們一直以來每一季、每一季都在這方面變得更有效率，特別是與 737-700 相關——那是較小、燃油效率較差的機型；同時我們把新的 MAX 8 引進機隊。所以這絕對是一個貢獻因素。而且未來很多年這個趨勢都會持續，因為我們會繼續這項轉換，還有數百架新飛機——更新的飛機——在訂單中。

Apart from that, though, there is efficiency around the way that we're managing our supply chain and other elements of the program that are also contributing to that maintenance expense being as efficient as it has been.

除此之外，我們在供應鏈管理方式以及計畫的其他要素上也有一些效率提升，這些也共同促成維修費用能維持目前這樣的效率水準。

And then to your second question on head count. So much of the head count expense that we have is variable. And so yes, we do look at head count in and of itself as it relates to the front line, but it's really more about having the right number of people so that you have the right folks in the right places so that you're not having to have more premium pay and other things that would result from not having kind of an efficient setup across our operations.

再來回答你第二個關於人力編制的問題。我們的人事費用中有很大一部分是變動性的。所以是的，我們確實會就第一線的人力本身來檢視編制，但更重要的是要有正確的人數，讓合適的人在合適的位置，這樣你就不需要因為作業配置不夠有效率而支付更多的加班溢價（premium pay）或其他成本。

And then on the indirect side for head count, you've heard us talk about the fact that we, year to year, are keeping head count or SWB dollars flat, which as we go through attrition and other things, you'd probably see the head count come down just a bit to be able to enable the dollars to stay flat year to year to year.

至於間接人力方面，你們也聽我們談過：我們在年度之間會把人力編制或 SWB 美元金額維持持平；因此，隨著自然流失（attrition）與其他因素，你可能會看到人數略為下降一些，以便讓金額能夠年復一年維持持平。

That wraps up today's call. We appreciate everyone for joining us.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。

The conference has concluded. Thank you all for attending. We'll meet again here next quarter.

本次電話會議已結束。感謝各位出席。我們下個季度將在此再次相會。