Lazard Inc (LAZ) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Lazard's first-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. This call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

大家早安，歡迎參加 Lazard 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。此通話正在錄音。 （操作員指示）

At this time, I will now turn the conference over to Alexandra Deignan, Lazard's Head of Investor Relations and Treasury. Please go ahead, ma'am.

現在，我將把會議交給Lazard投資者關係和財務主管Alexandra Deignan。請女士發言。

Thank you, Mel. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Lazard's earnings call for the first quarter of 2025. I'm Alexandra Deignan, Head of Investor Relations and Treasury. In addition to today's audio comments, we have posted our earnings release on our website. A replay of this call will also be available on our website later today.

謝謝你，梅爾。大家早安，歡迎參加 Lazard 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。我是投資者關係和財務主管 Alexandra Deignan。除了今天的音訊評論外，我們還在我們的網站上發布了我們的收益報告。今天晚些時候，我們的網站也將提供此通話的重播。

Before we begin, let me remind you that we may make forward-looking statements about our business and performance. There are important factors that could cause our actual results, level of activity, performance, achievements or other events to differ materially from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements, including, but not limited to, those factors discussed in the company's SEC filings, which you can access on our website.

在我們開始之前，請允許我提醒您，我們可能會對我們的業務和業績做出前瞻性的陳述。有一些重要因素可能導致我們的實際結果、活動水平、業績、成就或其他事件與前瞻性陳述所表達或暗示的結果、業績、成就或其他事件存在重大差異，包括但不限於公司在美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 文件中討論的因素，您可以在我們的網站上訪問這些因素。

Lazard assumes no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of these forward-looking statements and assumes no duty to update them. Today's discussion also includes certain non-GAAP financial measures that we believe are meaningful when evaluating the company's performance. For a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to the comparable GAAP measures is provided in our earnings release and investor presentation.

Lazard 對這些前瞻性陳述的準確性或完整性不承擔任何責任，也不承擔更新這些前瞻性陳述的義務。今天的討論還包括某些非公認會計準則財務指標，我們認為這些指標在評估公司績效時很有意義。我們的收益報告和投資者報告中提供了這些非 GAAP 財務指標與可比較 GAAP 指標的對帳表。

In our call today are Peter Orszag, Lazard's Chief Executive Officer and Chairman; and Mary Ann Betsch, Lazard's Chief Financial Officer. After our prepared remarks, Peter and Mary Ann will be joined by Evan Russo, Chief Executive Officer of Asset Management, as they open up the call for questions.

今天參加我們電話會議的有 Lazard 執行長兼董事長 Peter Orszag 和 Lazard 財務長 Mary Ann Betsch。在我們準備好的演講之後，Peter 和 Mary Ann 將與資產管理公司執行長 Evan Russo 一起開始提問環節。

I'll now turn the call over to Peter.

我現在將電話轉給彼得。

Thank you, Ale, and thank you to everyone for joining our call. First quarter performance was solid, with results supported by a high degree of client engagement across the firm, along with our diversified business model. In Financial Advisory, our global market share of announced transactions increased year-over-year as the momentum behind our long-term strategy continues to grow.

謝謝你，Ale，也謝謝大家參加我們的電話會議。第一季業績穩健，業績得益於公司高度的客戶參與度以及我們多元化的業務模式。在財務諮詢領域，隨著我們長期策略的勢頭不斷增強，我們已宣布交易的全球市場份額同比增長。

Over the past 12 months, revenue associated with private capital was over 40% of total financial advisory revenue, just above our prior peak in 2021. This reflects strong market activity and our successful expansion of coverage in this area. In Asset Management, we saw substantial improvement in our flows for the first quarter compared to last year. Inflows were driven by large wins in our strategic focus areas, including our quantitative platform, Japanese equities, global equities and international quality.

在過去的 12 個月中，與私人資本相關的收入佔總金融諮詢收入的 40% 以上，略高於我們 2021 年的高峰。這反映了強勁的市場活動和我們在該領域覆蓋範圍的成功擴大。在資產管理方面，與去年相比，我們第一季的流量有了顯著改善。資金流入是由我們戰略重點領域的巨大勝利推動的，包括我們的量化平台、日本股票、全球股票和國際品質。

Even with increased gross inflows during the quarter, our one but not yet funded mandates are even higher than at the beginning of the year as sales and distribution efforts have successfully generated new business. During the quarter, we continued to execute our Lazard 2030 long-term strategy. We announced a strategic alliance with Arini Capital Management, expanding Lazard's connectivity to private capital across Europe.

即使本季總流入量有所增加，但由於銷售和分銷工作成功創造了新業務，我們的一項但尚未獲得資金的授權甚至比年初還要高。本季度，我們繼續執行 Lazard 2030 長期策略。我們宣布與 Arini Capital Management 建立策略聯盟，擴大 Lazard 與歐洲各地私人資本的連結。

This partnership creates opportunities across both of our businesses by providing clients access to flexible financing solutions and unique investment strategies. We also announced our expansion in the Middle East, opening a Financial Advisory office in Abu Dhabi. This office builds on our successful business in Saudi Arabia and complements our presence in Dubai.

此次合作為客戶提供了靈活的融資解決方案和獨特的投資策略，為我們兩家公司創造了機會。我們也宣布了在中東的擴張計劃，在阿布達比開設了一家財務諮詢辦公室。該辦事處以我們在沙烏地阿拉伯的成功業務為基礎，並補充了我們在杜拜的業務。

Finally, last month, we launched our first active ETF product set in the US, the introduction of our Japanese equity, equity megatrends and next-gen technologies ETF further expands our capability to meet investor preferences and demand.

最後，上個月，我們在美國推出了首個主動式 ETF 產品系列，日本股票、股票大趨勢和下一代科技 ETF 的推出進一步擴大了我們滿足投資者偏好和需求的能力。

Looking ahead, while there is substantial unpredictability due to shifting trade policies, corporate balance sheets remain strong and the preconditions for ongoing economic growth and M&A activity are present. This includes underlying tailwinds for Financial Advisory activity, with client opportunities driven by technology and generative AI, the biotech revolution, ongoing expansion in energy demand and efforts to derisk and reposition supply chains.

展望未來，儘管貿易政策的變化帶來了很大的不可預測性，但企業資產負債表依然強勁，持續經濟成長和併購活動的先決條件也已具備。這包括金融諮詢活動的潛在順風，客戶機會由技術和產生人工智慧、生物技術革命、能源需求的持續擴張以及降低風險和重新定位供應鏈的努力所驅動。

Over the past month and even with the overhang of heightened uncertainty, our backlog and Financial Advisory has continued to grow, driven by activity in Europe and in restructuring along with continued growth in M&A and financing and capital solutions. Whether this pattern continues and how this backlog evolves in the future will depend in part on greater certainty regarding tariffs. Overall, client engagement across both of our businesses remains robust.

在過去的一個月裡，儘管不確定性加劇，但我們的積壓訂單和財務諮詢業務仍在繼續成長，這得益於歐洲和重組活動的推動，以及併購、融資和資本解決方案的持續成長。這種模式是否會持續下去以及未來積壓情況如何發展，在一定程度上取決於關稅的確定性。整體而言，我們兩家公司的客戶參與度依然強勁。

Let me now turn the call over to Mary Ann to discuss our financial results.

現在，我將電話轉給瑪麗安，討論我們的財務結果。

Thank you, Peter. Term line adjusted net revenue was $643 million for the first quarter. Financial Advisory adjusted net revenue was $370 million for the first quarter of 2025, which is 17% lower than the prior year's record first quarter revenue. Our global M&A expertise and our expanded connectivity to private capital are reflected in first quarter results.

謝謝你，彼得。第一季定期調整後淨收入為 6.43 億美元。2025 年第一季度，財務諮詢調整後淨收入為 3.7 億美元，比上一年第一季創紀錄的收入低 17%。我們在全球的併購專業知識以及與私人資本的擴大聯繫反映在第一季的業績中。

Recently announced transactions include Mallinckrodt Pharmaceuticals' $6.7 billion combination with Endo Pharmaceuticals; Sun Communities' $5.7 billion sale of Safe Harbor Marinas to Blackstone Infrastructure; Just Eat Takeaway.com's EUR4.1 billion recommended public offer by Prosus; and Assura's $2.1 billion recommended cash offer from KKR and Stonepeak.

最近宣布的交易包括 Mallinckrodt Pharmaceuticals 與 Endo Pharmaceuticals 以 67 億美元合併；Sun Communities 以 57 億美元將 Safe Harbor Marinas 出售給 Blackstone Infrastructure；Just Eat Takeaway.com 獲得 Prosus 建議的 41 億歐元公開報價；

Completed transactions include CD&R EUR16 billion acquisition of a controlling 50% stake in Sanofi's consumer health unit, Opella; Pactive Evergreen's $6.7 billion acquisition by Novolex, a portfolio company of Apollo; Siete Foods' $1.2 billion acquisition by PepsiCo; and SocGen's EUR1.1 billion sale of its professional equipment financing business to BPCE.

已完成的交易包括 CD&R 以 160 億歐元收購賽諾菲消費者健康部門 Opella 的 50% 控股權；Pactive Evergreen 以 67 億歐元被阿波羅的投資組合公司 Novolex 收購；百事可樂以 12 億歐元收購 Siete Foods；以及法國興業銀行以 11 億歐元將其專業融資業務。

In addition, large corporate restructuring assignments include company roles with Altice France and GiFi, while creditor and related party roles include EmployBridge and Oregon Tool. We also advised on several private capital markets assignments, including advising Grosvenor on its sale of 25% of a portfolio of properties valued at GBP1.2 billion to Norges Bank; and Banneker Partners and Crestview Partners on continuation funds led by investments from Accel-KKR and Apollo's S3, respectively.

此外，大型企業重組任務包括與 Altice France 和 GiFi 合作的公司職位，而債權人和相關方職位包括 EmployBridge 和 Oregon Tool。我們也為多個私人資本市場項目提供諮詢，包括為格羅夫納 (Grosvenor) 向挪威銀行出售價值 12 億英鎊的 25% 的房地產組合提供諮詢；以及為 Banneker Partners 和 Crestview Partners 分別就由 Accel-KKR 和 Apollo 的 S3 投資領投的延續基金提供諮詢。

Turning to Asset Management. Adjusted net revenue was $264 million for the first quarter of 2025, a decrease of 4% from the prior year quarter. Our revenues reflected management fees of $256 million for the first quarter, down 1% from the prior quarter. Incentive fees totaled $9 million and were driven by strong performance in our credit fixed income and Japanese equity strategies.

轉向資產管理。2025 年第一季調整後淨收入為 2.64 億美元，較去年同期下降 4%。我們的營收反映了第一季 2.56 億美元的管理費，比上一季下降了 1%。激勵費用總計 900 萬美元，主要得益於我們的信貸固定收益和日本股票策略的強勁表現。

As of March 31, we reported AUM of $227 billion, up slightly compared to year-end and demonstrating improvements in inflows and outflows. During the quarter, we had market appreciation of $800 million, foreign exchange appreciation of $3.9 billion and net outflows of $3.7 billion. Average AUM for the first quarter was $231 billion, 1% lower than the prior quarter.

截至 3 月 31 日，我們報告的 AUM 為 2,270 億美元，與年底相比略有增長，顯示流入和流出有所改善。本季，市場升值 8 億美元，外匯升值 39 億美元，淨流出 37 億美元。第一季的平均 AUM 為 2,310 億美元，比上一季下降 1%。

Recently won new business for Asset Management includes an Asian sovereign wealth fund investing $400 million into global equity advantage, a Swiss client funding $390 million into emerging markets equity advantage and China equity advantage, a US public pension funding $300 million into international quality growth and a Japanese financial intermediary investing $175 million into global equity advantage.

資產管理最近贏得的新業務包括一家亞洲主權財富基金向全球股權優勢投資 4 億美元、一家瑞士客戶向新興市場股權優勢和中國股權優勢投資 3.9 億美元、一家美國公共養老金向國際優質增長投資 3 億美元以及一家日本金融中介機構向全球股權優勢投資 1.75 億美元。

Now turning to firm wide expenses. Our adjusted compensation expense was $421 million for the first quarter of 2025, resulting in a compensation ratio of 65.5% compared to 66% one year ago. Our adjusted non-compensation expense was $148 million for the first quarter of 2025, resulting in a non-compensation ratio of 23%.

現在談談公司整體開支。2025 年第一季度，我們的調整後薪資支出為 4.21 億美元，薪酬率為 65.5%，而去年同期為 66%。2025 年第一季度，我們的調整後非薪酬支出為 1.48 億美元，非薪酬率為 23%。

Shifting to taxes. Our adjusted effective tax rate for the first quarter was negative 13.9% due to a discrete benefit related to stock compensation awards that vested during the quarter. We currently expect our effective tax rate for the full year 2025 to be in the high 20% range.

轉向稅收。由於本季歸屬的股票薪酬獎勵相關的單獨收益，我們第一季的調整後有效稅率為-13.9%。我們目前預計 2025 年全年有效稅率將達到 20% 左右。

Turning to capital allocation. In the first quarter of 2025, we returned $175 million to shareholders. including a quarterly dividend of $45 million, $36 million in repurchases of common stock and $94 million in satisfaction of employee tax obligations. In addition, yesterday, we declared a quarterly dividend of $0.50 per share.

轉向資本配置。2025 年第一季度，我們向股東返還了 1.75 億美元，其中包括 4,500 萬美元的季度股息、3,600 萬美元的普通股回購以及 9,400 萬美元的員工納稅義務履行。此外，昨天我們宣布每股 0.50 美元的季度股息。

Now I'll turn the call back to Peter.

現在我將把電話轉回給彼得。

Thank you, Mary Ann. The current environment is highly uncertain, but Lazard has a long history of combining business insights with geopolitical context, which is increasingly valuable to our clients. Our geopolitical advisory group is in high demand across both of our businesses. We also recently announced the addition of Patrick McHenry as Senior Advisor. Patrick's policy expertise as a congressman, including as Chair of the House Financial Services Committee, further enhances our advisory capabilities.

謝謝你，瑪麗安。目前的環境高度不確定，但 Lazard 長期以來一直將商業洞察力與地緣政治背景相結合，這對我們的客戶來說越來越有價值。我們的地緣政治顧問小組在我們兩家公司都很受歡迎。我們最近也宣布任命 Patrick McHenry 為高級顧問。帕特里克作為國會議員的政策專長，包括擔任眾議院金融服務委員會主席，進一步增強了我們的諮詢能力。

In Financial Advisory, we made innovative plays to address a wide array of client supported by investments we've made to expand and integrate our Restructuring & Liability Management, Private Capital Advisory and Capital Solutions groups. With nearly two centuries of operating in Europe, our strong presence, deep relationships and respected expertise provide us with a competitive advantage in serving those markets.

在財務諮詢方面，我們透過投資擴大和整合重組與負債管理、私人資本諮詢和資本解決方案團隊，採取創新措施滿足廣泛客戶的需求。我們在歐洲經營了近兩個世紀，強大的影響力、深厚的關係和受人尊敬的專業知識為我們服務這些市場提供了競爭優勢。

We continue to actively recruit to increase our client coverage. Bankers are attracted to our global reputation and brand, and we achieved our objective to expand our Financial Advisory MD ranks with 11 net additions over the past 12 months. We also have several senior MDs joining our health care, financial sponsors, restructuring and debt advisory groups in the upcoming months.

我們將繼續積極招募以擴大我們的客戶覆蓋範圍。銀行家對我們的全球聲譽和品牌很感興趣，我們實現了擴大財務顧問 MD 隊伍的目標，在過去 12 個月內淨增 11 名 MD。未來幾個月，我們將有多位資深醫學博士加入我們的醫療保健、金融贊助商、重整和債務諮詢小組。

In Asset Management, during times of market volatility, investors historically look to active asset management or solutions. Demand for investment products outside of the United States may also expand as investors reevaluate overweight allocation to the US for more balanced global exposure. With our core capabilities in global, international and emerging market strategies, this shift could benefit our platform.

在資產管理中，在市場波動時期，投資人歷來尋求積極的資產管理或解決方案。隨著投資者重新評估對美國的超重配置，以實現更均衡的全球投資，對美國以外投資產品的需求也可能擴大。憑藉我們在全球、國際和新興市場策略方面的核心能力，這種轉變可能使我們的平台受益。

In addition, we plan to continue expanding our ETF offerings, creating future opportunities for growth over time. Our first quarter performance demonstrates continued progress against our long-term strategy and are focused on delivering excellence as a trusted adviser for our clients at all times.

此外，我們計劃繼續擴大我們的 ETF 產品，創造未來的成長機會。我們第一季的業績表明，我們在長期策略方面繼續取得進展，並且我們始終致力於為客戶提供值得信賴的顧問服務，提供卓越的服務。

I'd also like to take a moment to welcome Peter Harrison to our Board of Directors, which we announced last month, and I'd like to thank Jane Mendillo for her service. Jane served three terms as a Board Director and has been instrumental in guiding and strengthening Lazard for close to a decade.

我還想花點時間歡迎彼得哈里森 (Peter Harrison) 加入我們的董事會，我們上個月宣布了這一消息，並感謝簡門迪洛 (Jane Mendillo) 的服務。Jane 曾擔任三屆董事會董事，近十年來在指導和加強 Lazard 方面發揮了重要作用。

Now we'll open the call to questions.

現在我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Mike Brown, Wells Fargo Securities.

富國證券的麥克布朗。

Great. Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. So Peter, positive commentary on the backlog. That's great to hear. It sounds like it's growing in broad-based. Maybe just within the backlog. Are you seeing a higher level than normal of M&A deals dropping out?

偉大的。早上好，感謝您回答我的問題。所以彼得，對積壓問題給予了正面的評價。聽到這個消息真是太好了。聽起來它正在廣泛地發展。也許只是在積壓之中。您是否發現併購交易的退出率高於正常水準？

So despite seeing the growth underneath the surface, is there some M&A deals that are actually dropping? And then do you see risk of that picking up at all? Thank you.

那麼，儘管表面上看到了成長，但實際上是否有一些併購交易正在下降？那麼您是否認為這種風險會逐漸增加呢？謝謝。

Sure, So look, in any normal environment, you see some deals get pushed out, some deals get accelerated, deals go sideways. I wouldn't say that we've seen an elevated level of that. But it -- there is often -- it bounces around from quarter-to-quarter. And I'd note, as I pointed out, that even within M&A, our backlog continues to expand.

當然，所以你看，在任何正常環境下，你都會看到一些交易被推遲，一些交易被加速，一些交易出現橫向發展。我不會說我們已經看到了這種現象的加劇。但它——經常——在各個季度之間波動。正如我所指出的，我要指出的是，即使在併購領域，我們的積壓訂單仍在增加。

I also want to immediately emphasize that the degree to which that will continue is very past dependent and depends on what happens during this 90-day window to hopefully resolve the uncertainty over the tariff regime in particular. So that's Point 1.

我還想立即強調，這種情況將持續到什麼程度，很大程度上取決於過去，也取決於在這 90 天的時間窗口期內發生的情況，希望能解決關稅制度方面的不確定性。這就是第一點。

Point 2 is that we have a very diversified business model at this point across M&A, non-M&A, across public companies, private companies across the US and Europe. And that ability to -- or that set of capabilities and geographic diversification means that we have the ability to skate to where opportunities are with our clients in a rapidly evolving environment.

第二點是，我們目前擁有非常多元化的商業模式，涵蓋併購、非併購、上市公司以及美國和歐洲的私人公司。這種能力——或者說這套能力和地理多樣化意味著我們有能力在快速變化的環境中與客戶一起抓住機會。

So Point 1 is the M&A market is continuing but will be subject to challenges if the tariff regime is not clarified over -- during this 90-day window. And Point B is we have a lot of products and strategies and services that we offer to our advisory clients beyond M&A.

因此，第一點是併購市場仍在繼續，但如果在這 90 天的窗口期內關稅制度沒有明確，併購市場將面臨挑戰。重點 B 是，除了併購業務之外，我們也為諮詢客戶提供許多產品、策略和服務。

Great. Great. Well said. Maybe if I just -- as a follow-up, just kind of narrowing on 2Q here. It's off to a good start based on what we can see in the public data and the deals that are set to close in the quarter would actually point to a pretty good second quarter here.

偉大的。偉大的。說得好。也許如果我只是 - 作為後續行動，只是在這裡縮小第二季度的範圍。根據我們在公開數據中看到的情況，這是一個良好的開端，而本季度即將完成的交易實際上預示著第二季度的業績將相當不錯。

Based on the visibility you have, how do you think the second quarter can compare to this first quarter? Can it be up sequentially? And could it also even be up year-over-year?

根據您所了解的情況，您認為第二季與第一季相比如何？可以依序上去嗎？而且它還會比去年同期有所成長嗎？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I would say that it is extremely challenging at this point in the quarter to be giving a definitive view about where a specific quarter is landing. But I'd go back to -- despite the uncertainty, we continue to see a lot of engagement with clients and a lot of activity. I'm just not going to give you a definitive answer to that question because even in normal times at this point in the quarter, there's still a lot of uncertainty around it, and we're not in normal times.

我想說，在本季的這個時候，要對某個特定季度的業績給出一個明確的看法是極具挑戰性的。但我想說的是——儘管存在不確定性，我們仍然看到與客戶的大量互動和大量活動。我只是不會給你一個明確的答案，因為即使在本季的這個正常時期，仍然存在著許多不確定性，而且我們現在不是處於正常時期。

Understood. Thank you for taking my questions.

明白了。感謝您回答我的問題。

James Yaro, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的詹姆斯·亞羅。

Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. Just firstly, on the sponsor M&A dynamic. I think 2025 was supposed to be a much healthier sponsor capital return backdrop across both M&A and IPOs. To what extent are you seeing sponsor M&A slowdown as a result of the macro backdrop in tariffs? And then what does this mean for the growth of secondaries for this year?

早上好，感謝您回答我的問題。首先，關於贊助商併購動態。我認為 2025 年無論是併購或 IPO，發起人的資本回報背景都應該更健康。您在多大程度上看到由於關稅的宏觀背景而導致的贊助商併購放緩？那麼這對於今年二級市場的成長意味著什麼呢？

So look, within sponsors, I think there are multiple countervailing forces. On the one hand, private equity is built to trade. So there is a kind of underlying driver deal activity. And in addition, as you know, many portfolio companies have now been held for longer than their private equity owners would normally hold portfolio companies, that also pushes towards more deal activity.

所以，我認為，在贊助商內部，存在著多種相互制衡的力量。一方面，私募股權是為了交易而建立的。因此存在一種潛在的驅動交易活動。此外，如您所知，許多投資組合公司的持有時間現在比私募股權所有者通常持有投資組合公司的時間要長，這也推動了更多的交易活動。

On the other hand, there are three factors currently that are going in the other direction. The first is that the heightened uncertainty around tariffs can affect how one views a portfolio company, especially if it's affected by having to reconfigure its supply chain or pay significantly higher cost for its inputs or face lower consumer demand for its product if the tariffs are passed along to the consumer. So that's factor one.

另一方面，目前有三個因素正在朝著相反的方向發展。首先，關稅不確定性的增加會影響人們對投資組合公司的看法，尤其是當該公司必須重新配置供應鏈、為投入支付更高的成本，或是在關稅轉嫁給消費者後面臨產品需求下降的情況。這是第一因素。

Factor two is even though these are private companies, the comparables are often public companies in terms of how they're valued. And whenever there's a very sharp movement in market valuation, you can temporarily have a bid-ask spread between buyer and seller. And so, the market gyrations that we've been experiencing would play to that second factor.

第二個因素是，儘管這些是私人公司，但從估值來看，可比公司往往是上市公司。每當市場估價出現劇烈波動時，買賣雙方之間就會暫時出現買賣價差。因此，我們所經歷的市場波動將對第二個因素產生影響。

And then the third one is that many private equity transactions are backed by either the leveraged loan market or the high-yield market, and those are both disrupted right now. So those are the sort of countervailing forces. That push and pull will vary across sponsors. It will vary across the type of portfolio company. And so, what I would say is all three of those kind of counter sailing forces will dissipate if there is clarity or more clarity provided over the tariff regime during this 90-day window.

第三個是，許多私募股權交易都由槓桿貸款市場或高收益市場支持，而這兩個市場現在都受到了乾擾。所以這些都是一種抵銷力量。這種推拉作用對於不同的贊助商而言是不同的。它會根據投資組合公司的類型而有所不同。因此，我想說的是，如果在這 90 天的窗口期內關稅制度更加明確，那麼這三種反航行力量都會消散。

So there's a good example of how the policy world is interacting in a quite direct way with that type of activity. And then your second point, look, we see underlying growth in the secondaries market period because the penetration rate of secondaries in the marketplace still has room to grow in any market environment.

這是一個很好的例子，說明政策界如何以相當直接的方式與這類活動互動。然後你的第二點，你看，我們看到二級市場時期的潛在成長，因為二級市場在市場上的滲透率在任何市場環境下仍然有成長空間。

But layered on top of that, you do have a cyclical force that if more portfolio companies are held for longer and LPs want liquidity, you'll get an additional accelerate to secondaries activity from that tendency also. So -- but the important point on secondaries is, while that may cause some acceleration this year, we see continued growth in the secondaries market regardless.

但除此之外，你確實有一個週期性的力量，如果更多的投資組合公司被持有更長時間，並且 LP 需要流動性，你也會從這種趨勢中獲得額外的二級活動加速。所以——但關於二級市場的重點是，雖然這可能會導致今年出現一些加速，但無論如何我們都會看到二級市場持續成長。

Okay. That's very clear. Maybe just -- could you speak a little bit to the dynamics within restructuring? Could you talk about how trends have evolved in terms of separately liability management versus Chapter 11 in bankruptcy and then the outlook for both of these components? And then finally, maybe just how quickly could Chapter 11 potentially pick up if we were to see a weaker macro backdrop?

好的。這非常清楚。也許只是—您能否稍微談談重組中的動態？您能否談談單獨負債管理與破產第 11 章之間的趨勢如何演變，以及這兩個組成部分的前景如何？最後，如果我們看到宏觀背景較弱，第 11 章可能會以多快的速度出現？

Sure. So I do think this is an important change in the marketplace. We have retooled our group to handle both restructuring through Chapter 11 and liability management mandates and also serve both debtors and creditors more evenly. And when you look at the mix of our revenue mix within that group, it is a much more diversified debtor creditor mix.

當然。所以我確實認為這是市場上的重要變化。我們已經重組了我們的團隊，以便能夠透過第 11 章處理重組和負債管理任務，並更均衡地為債務人和債權人提供服務。當您查看該集團內我們的收入組合時，您會發現債務人債權人組合更加多樣化。

And then specifically to your question, as private capital has become more dominant, both private equity and private credit, the tendency to do liability management as opposed to a formal Chapter 11 process has increased. And so, we would anticipate that, that will continue because the role of private capital is more dominant today than it was a decade or two ago. That is not to say there won't be formal Chapter 11 processes for some firms, but we do think the mix of business will continue to be disproportionately in the liability management camp.

然後具體回答您的問題，隨著私人資本（包括私募股權和私人信貸）變得越來越占主導地位，進行負債管理而不是正式的第 11 章程序的趨勢有所增加。因此，我們預計這種情況將會持續下去，因為私人資本的作用比十年或二十年前更為主導。這並不是說某些公司不會採用正式的第 11 章程序，但我們確實認為，負債管理陣營的業務結構仍將占到很大比例。

That's very clear, thanks a lot.

非常清楚，非常感謝。

Ben Rubin, UBS.

瑞銀的本·魯賓。

Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I first wanted to start on the comp ratio. So 65.5%, slightly below the last year's accrual. And I know your goal is to get to 60% or below, and maybe the hope was to maybe get there this year.

嗨，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。我首先想從補償比率開始。因此為 65.5%，略低於去年的應計金額。我知道你的目標是達到 60% 或更低，也許希望今年就能實現。

So I'm just curious, what would you need to see in terms of the M&A environment, the deal backdrop such that you'd be more comfortable bringing down the accrual rate? And then also, if you can give us any type of indication on whether or not the 65.5% assumes improvement in the fee revenues throughout the year? And if so, what type of magnitude?

所以我很好奇，您需要了解併購環境和交易背景的哪些情況，以便您更願意降低應計率？另外，您能否給我們任何跡象，表明 65.5% 是否意味著全年費用收入將會改善？如果是的話，其量級是怎樣的？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I'll start, and then Mary Ann will comment. Look, we were always really clear that the 60% target was dependent on market conditions. I think maybe to the annoyance of some of you on the phone, we kept putting in those caveats, that was done on purpose because we recognize that the outlook had some uncertainty surrounding it and that operating leverage that is achievable depends on not only what we do, but also on the external environment.

我先開始，然後瑪麗安會發表評論。你看，我們一直都很清楚，60% 的目標取決於市場條件。我想，也許我們不斷提出這些警告會讓電話裡的一些人感到惱火，我們這樣做是故意的，因為我們認識到前景存在一些不確定性，而且可實現的經營槓桿不僅取決於我們所做的事情，還取決於外部環境。

So I would just say we, again, put those caveats in, if you look back at the previous transcripts, on purpose. And I'd say that events have underscored the wisdom of having done that. With regard to this year, we're going to have to see how this plays out. We are going to make every effort we have to continue to achieve some operating leverage and have the comp ratio come down, but it is very dependent on what -- on events beyond our control.

因此，我只想說，如果你回顧一下先前的記錄，你會發現我們再次故意添加了這些警告。我想說，事實已經證明了這樣做的明智之舉。對於今年，我們將拭​​目以待事情將如何發展。我們將盡一切努力繼續實現一些營運槓桿，並降低補償比率，但這在很大程度上取決於我們無法控制的事件。

And in particular, whether there is resolution during this policy period or not because with the heightened uncertainty that currently exists, you're in one scenario, and if that uncertainty will resolve pretty quickly, you're in a different scenario. And so that there's just -- there's no way to give more assurance when the world is bifurcated in that degree. But Mary Ann --

特別是，由於目前存在的不確定性加劇，在此政策期間是否有解決方案，您處於一種情況，而如果這種不確定性能夠很快得到解決，那麼您將處於另一種情況。因此，當世界分裂到這種程度時，就沒有辦法給予更多的保證。但瑪麗安--

Yes, I guess the way I might think about it is we're -- as Peter said, our backlog is growing, but it's at a much more modest pace than what we expected when we came into the year and when we were talking about the 60% ratio.

是的，我想我可能會這樣想——正如彼得所說，我們的積壓訂單正在增長，但速度比我們今年初預期的以及我們談論 60% 比例時的速度要溫和得多。

So I would think about it that if our revenue is relatively stable, then 65.5% is kind of our best guess for the year at this point, it could change as the year goes on as it always does. But that's how I would think about it.

因此，我認為，如果我們的收入相對穩定，那麼 65.5% 就是我們目前對今年的最佳猜測，隨著時間的推移，它可能會發生變化，就像往常一樣。但我就是這麼想的。

Great, thank you. I wanted to shift gears maybe to Asset Management. Peter, you mentioned previously that you're entering the year with -- 2025 could be an inflection for your Asset Management business, much like 2024 was for Financial Advisory with maybe the potential of hitting your net zero flows.

太好了，謝謝。我或許想轉向資產管理。彼得，您之前提到過，2025 年可能是您的資產管理業務的轉折點，就像 2024 年是財務諮詢業務的轉折點一樣，也許有可能實現淨零流量。

And you've been active, obviously, as you mentioned in your prepared remarks about launching active ETFs in the US also the general shift of investor interest going beyond the US should benefit your global strategies. So just curious, how do you feel about that net flow target today? And then also maybe, if you could provide us a mark-to-market on how the flow picture is looking for April, that would be great.

而且您顯然一直很活躍，正如您在準備好的演講中提到的那樣，在美國推出主動型 ETF，而且投資者興趣向美國以外轉移也應該有利於您的全球戰略。所以只是好奇，您對今天的淨流量目標有何看法？另外，如果您能為我們提供 4 月份流量狀況的市價，那就太好了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

So what I would say is two things. First, if you look at the first quarter, net outflows were significantly lower than last year, and that occurred despite the fact that our one but not funded mandates increased. So I think there had been some speculation or commentary that we might have been eating into that one, but not yet funded mandate quantum and that's -- it's been the opposite, it's risen.

所以我想說兩件事。首先，如果你看一下第一季度，你會發現淨流出量明顯低於去年，儘管我們的「一票否決」授權有所增加，但這種情況仍然發生。所以我認為有人猜測或評論說我們可能已經蠶食了這一部分，但尚未資助授權量子，而事實恰恰相反，它已經上升。

And I know, coming back to the geographic diversification that the majority of that one but not funded mandate comes from investors in Europe, in particular. And so that shows the benefits of the diversification. And I'll let Evan give an update on -- or any additional color, including anything you want to say about April.

我知道，回到地理多樣化議題上，這一單一但未獲得資金支持的授權大部分來自歐洲的投資者。這顯示了多樣化的好處。我會讓 Evan 提供最新消息 - 或任何其他信息，包括您想說的有關四月的任何內容。

Sure. Yes. So clearly, we've been trending better than last year as we had expected coming into this year. And we talked about a more balanced flow picture coming into the year based on several factors. One was the strong foundation. As you mentioned, the one but not funded sort of that pipeline that we started with this year.

當然。是的。顯然，正如我們預期的那樣，今年的趨勢比去年更好。我們根據多種因素討論了今年更加平衡的流量狀況。一是基礎牢固。正如您所提到的，我們今年啟動了這項管道，但尚未獲得資金支持。

And as Peter mentioned, the elevated pipeline that we started this year with is not only not declined, but it's actually been growing steadily, a little bit over the course of the first quarter, which continues to give us confidence. Also the investments that we've made across our business, both on the investment side, of course, on distribution, changes we've made and organizational changes that we've made across the platform over the past year.

正如彼得所提到的，我們今年開始的提升管道不僅沒有下降，而且實際上一直在穩步增長，在第一季有所增長，這繼續給了我們信心。當然，也包括我們在整個業務方面進行的投資，包括投資方面、分銷方面、我們在過去一年中在整個平台上進行的變革以及組織變革。

And then importantly, it really was based on the performance that we've had in many of the products that we expected to be, interesting, focused products to the market this year, the strong performance that we had was going to give us a lot of confidence. And then finally, it was the new vectors of growth, as you mentioned, ETFs and others, which will play out and help us out over time.

然後重要的是，這確實基於我們預期今年將向市場推出的許多有趣且重點突出的產品的表現，我們強勁的表現將給予我們很大的信心。最後，正如您所提到的，新的成長載體，ETF 和其他，將隨著時間的推移發揮作用並幫助我們。

So all of that was the reason we expected there to be a more balanced picture of flows this year, and we're seeing all of that play out. I think it's a little bit of a continuation of that trend into Q2. It's going to be lumpy month-to-month as it always is, but we're continuing to see a more balanced picture.

因此，所有這些都是我們預期今年的資金流動狀況將更加平衡的原因，而我們正在看到這一切的發生。我認為這一趨勢將延續到第二季​​。像往常一樣，每個月的銷售額都會出現波動，但我們將繼續看到更平衡的狀況。

And given the fact that we remain at the higher elevated, one but not funded are continuing to have new wins come in this quarter in both quant and Japanese equities, international, global, all those strategies that makes sense for the market today and are doing really, really well, we expect that to continue. So I think it's generally the continuation of the positive trend and the expectations we came in at the beginning of the year.

鑑於我們仍處於較高水平，但本季在量化和日本股票、國際和全球方面繼續取得新的勝利，所有這些策略都對當今市場有意義，而且表現非常非常好，我們預計這種情況會持續下去。所以我認為這總體上是正向趨勢的延續，也符合我們年初的預期。

Great. Thank you for taking my questions.

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。

Ryan Kenny, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的瑞安·肯尼。

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. So follow-up on the comp ratio. I understand there's a lot of uncertainty on the revenue side. But is there any framework we should think about in terms of comp dollar range? Is there a floor on comp dollars that we should think about in the scenario where maybe more deals start getting pushed out?

嗨，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。因此請關注補償比率。我知道收入方面存在著許多不確定性。但是，就薪酬範圍而言，我們是否應該考慮任何框架？在更多交易開始被推遲的情況下，我們是否應該考慮補償金額的底線？

Yes. So I'll take that one, Ryan. The largest two components of our fixed compensation are salaries and amortization. And I would expect both of those to be up kind of in the mid-single-digit range year-over-year. And I think you have that data from our prior disclosure. So if you want to kind of model the floor, I would think about those components. Salaries, we have -- every year, there's people are promoted, and we have cost of living adjustments, et cetera.

是的。所以我會接受這個，瑞安。我們的固定薪資中最大的兩個組成部分是薪資和攤提。我預計這兩個數字的年增幅都將達到中等個位數。我認為您從我們之前的披露中已經獲得了這些數據。因此，如果您想對地板進行建模，我會考慮這些組件。我們有薪水——每年都有人晉升，我們還會調整生活成本，等等。

And then on the amortization side, even though we brought our deferral rate down last year, we still had a higher deferral rate than we did in 2021, which is the year that rolls off this year. And so we do see that slight uptick in the amortization as well. So that's how I would think about the fixed pieces, which sort of form your floor on the comp ratio.

在攤銷方面，儘管我們去年降低了遞延率，但我們的遞延率仍然高於 2021 年（即今年的攤銷年份）。因此，我們也確實看到攤銷略有上升。這就是我對固定部分的看法，它們構成了你的補償比率的底線。

Right. That's helpful. And then on the restructuring backlog growing. Any sense on how quickly conversations can turn into mandates and then how quickly that can hit the P&L? Is that more of a 2025 pickup story or more of a 2026 story?

正確的。這很有幫助。然後重組積壓問題不斷增加。有沒有感覺到對話多快可以變成指令，然後多快可以影響損益表？這更像是 2025 年的故事，還是 2026 年的故事？

I would say that one feature, restructuring mandates, especially in the liability management category is that they can translate into revenue faster than many M&A deals. But we also have a mix of other non-M&A businesses. Those are capital solutions, PCA, et cetera, that can translate from mandate awards to actual revenue faster than many M&A deals also. So it's not just restructuring that has a different time profile.

我想說，重組授權的一個特點，特別是在負債管理類別中，它們可以比許多併購交易更快轉化為收入。但我們也擁有其他非併購業務。這些是資本解決方案、PCA 等，可以比許多併購交易更快地將授權獎勵轉化為實際收入。因此，不僅僅是重組具有不同的時間安排。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Devin Ryan, Citizens.

德文·瑞安（Devin Ryan），公民。

This is Alex Jenkins filling in for Devin. I guess just a follow up on the asset management side, that $10 billion Asset Management mandate that you highlighted last quarter. Can you speak to whether any of that's been funded to date and just the timeline for full deployment? And specifically, are there any challenges or opportunities in executing this mandate that you would like to highlight today?

這是代替 Devin 的 Alex Jenkins。我想這只是資產管理的後續行動，也就是您上個季度強調的 100 億美元資產管理任務。您能否談談迄今為止這些項目是否已經獲得資金以及全面部署的時間表？具體來說，在執行這項任務的過程中，您是否有想要強調的挑戰或機會？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, again, and I'll let Evan elaborate that, that figure was the one but not yet funded mandates overall. And as we have noted before, quantum in that category has actually gone up, not down. So there's always things that come -- they go ahead and get funded, but then there are new mandates that come in.

好吧，我再說一遍，讓埃文詳細說明一下，這個數字是一個，但總體而言還沒有資助的任務。正如我們之前所指出的，該類別的量子實際上是上升了，而不是下降了。所以總是會有事情發生——他們繼續前進並獲得資金，但隨後又有新的任務出現。

And on net, it has increased, not declined, which is what I think there has been perhaps some confusion about, but it's risen. And I don't know, Evan, if you wanted to add anything?

而從淨值來看，它是增加了，而不是減少了，我認為這也許引起了一些混淆，但它確實上升了。我不知道，埃文，您是否想補充一些什麼？

Yes. I would say, Alex, it's not one mandate. It's a series -- it's sort of the backlog of things that we were told we want to mandate, but it just hasn't funded yet. So it's just a question of timing until that they decide to actually deploy the capital. But they've chosen us to be their provider for the Asset Management services.

是的。我想說，亞歷克斯，這不是一項任務。這是一系列——是我們被告知要強制執行的積壓事項，但尚未獲得資金。因此，他們決定真正部署資本只是時間問題。但他們選擇我們作為其資產管理服務提供者。

And so, it's a whole series of things across lots and lots of different products. And we're constantly rolling some of those things in. They're constantly funding. But as Peter and I have mentioned, it's actually grown over the first quarter slightly. So it's starting at a very high elevated level relative to where we are historically.

所以，它是一系列涉及大量不同產品的東西。我們不斷推出這些產品。他們不斷提供資金。但正如彼得和我所提到的，它實際上比第一季略有成長。因此，相對於我們的歷史水平而言，它的起點非常高。

At the beginning of the year, we were at a higher and elevated level, and that's only continued to grow. But it's a mix of lots of different strategies with several lots of different clients. We expect a lot of that to start to hit both in the second quarter, probably into the third quarter of this year, but it's constantly being replenished.

今年年初，我們的水平更高了，而且還在不斷提高。但它融合了許多不同的策略和不同的客戶。我們預計，其中很大一部分將在今年第二季甚至第三季開始顯現，但它將繼續補充。

And so it's a question of how fast that gets -- we continue to win new mandates in this environment. Those things sometimes can move around quarter-to-quarter because if there's volatility and institutions may decide, let's not invest, let's not put the capital to work for a new mandate.

所以問題在於我們能以多快的速度在這種環境下繼續贏得新的授權。這些事情有時會逐季度變化，因為如果出現波動，機構可能會決定不投資，不將資本用於新的任務。

In a period of high volatility, they may wait for a more stable environment, so that can move things out for a few weeks, or a month based on their original timing, but those things are very, very highly likely and almost certainly going to fund over the next 12 to 15 months or so.

在高波動時期，他們可能會等待更穩定的環境，這樣可以根據原來的時間安排將事情推遲幾週或一個月，但這些事情非常非常有可能，而且幾乎肯定會在未來 12 到 15 個月左右獲得資金。

Okay. Yes. I appreciate it. I guess just a quick follow-up on capital and growth. You've continued to bolster the platform. You announced your expansion plans in Europe. I guess, just how are you prioritizing capital allocation between organic growth, strategic partnerships and just shareholder returns? And maybe can you speak to anything in terms of investments or acquisitions in the pipeline to support the 2030 strategic plan?

好的。是的。我很感激。我想這只是對資本和成長的一個快速跟進。您一直在不斷鞏固該平台。你們宣布了在歐洲的擴張計畫。我想，您究竟如何在有機成長、策略夥伴關係和股東回報之間確定資本配置的優先順序？您能否談談為支持 2030 年策略計畫而進行的投資或收購方面的情況？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Sure. So, look, we -- I think we've been clear about our capital allocation priorities, which is after interest and dividends to buy back shares, to offset part or all of our deferred compensation. And then with regard to that free cash flow over and above those priorities, we are considering a variety of inorganic options, but we're going to be very judicious with regard to making sure that the match is right, that shareholder value is enhanced and that it fits our strategic priorities.

當然。所以，你看，我們——我認為我們已經明確了我們的資本配置優先事項，即在利息和股息之後回購股票，以抵消部分或全部遞延薪酬。然後，關於超出這些優先事項的自由現金流，我們正在考慮各種無機選擇，但我們將非常明智地確保匹配正確，股東價值得到提升，並符合我們的戰略重點。

So we are -- we remain in active dialogue on lots of inorganic options disproportionately on the Asset Management side of the business. But we are going to be very disciplined about preserving capital for its highest and best use and to protect our -- to make sure that whatever we do is enhancing shareholder value.

因此，我們仍在就資產管理業務方面的許多無機選擇進行積極對話。但我們將非常嚴格地保護資本，以實現其最高和最佳用途，並保護我們的——確保我們所做的一切都是為了提高股東價值。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Brandon O'Brien, Wolfe Research.

布蘭登‧奧布萊恩，沃爾夫研究公司。

Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. I guess to start, I just wanted to touch on Europe. I've been -- we've been hearing a lot more positivity on the M&A backdrop in the region relative to the US of late. So I just wanted to get a sense as to how conversations in Europe compare to those in the US?

早上好，感謝您回答我的問題。我想先談談歐洲。我一直——最近我們聽到有關該地區相對於美國的併購背景的積極消息要多得多。所以我只是想了解歐洲的對話與美國的對話有何不同？

And also, Peter, you were quite -- you were constructive on that cross-border activity potentially improving if we were to see a more protectionist regime in the US, but we've also seen some governments be fairly aggressive in discouraging US investment in response to more significant tariffs that were implemented. So I just wanted to get a sense as to how your outlook there has changed at all as well.

此外，彼得，你對跨境活動可能改善持建設性態度，如果我們看到美國實行更加保護主義的製度，但我們也看到一些政府為應對實施的更高關稅而相當積極地阻止美國投資。所以我只是想了解你的觀點發生了怎樣的變化。

Sure, So I mean, as I mentioned, our backlog in Europe continues to expand disproportionately to the United States. I think it's one of the benefits of this diversification and our long history in Europe and the local roots that we have there. With regard to the cross-border activity, I mean, first, I think there is -- there are two things that I would note.

當然，我的意思是，正如我所提到的，我們在歐洲的積壓訂單繼續不成比例地擴大到美國。我認為這是我們多元化的優勢之一，也是我們在歐洲悠久歷史和當地根基的優勢之一。關於跨境活動，我的意思是，首先，我認為有兩件事需要注意。

One is that cross-border activity doesn't necessarily mean going directly into the United States. It can also mean we -- taking a new look at entities that are in lower tariff regimes as there was an announcement this morning involving a major technology firm announcing some relocation of where its production will occur as an example.

一是跨境活動不一定意味著直接進入美國。這也意味著我們要重新審視處於較低關稅制度下的實體，例如今天早上有一家大型科技公司宣布將其生產地點遷移。

And that is one of the phenomenon that we could see where it's not just interest in locating inside the tariff wall of the United States but rather relocating to another country that has a lower tariff with the United States. We'll have to see, but just to point that out. I would note there is -- the second thing I'd note is, there's also increased interest in Europe-Europe transactions. So things that don't touch the United States.

這是我們可以看到的現象，企業不僅對在美國關稅壁壘內落腳感興趣，也希望遷往與美國關稅較低的其他國家。我們得看看，但只是指出這一點。我想指出的第二件事是，人們對歐洲之間的交易的興趣也日益濃厚。所以這些事情與美國無關。

So our deep local roots, maybe the way I would put it is our deep local roots in Europe are a benefit, not just because if European firms want to locate inside the US tariff wall, that's an advantage, but rather because by being close to the European clients that we are, whatever they want to do, whether it's Europe-Europe or Europe to ex-US transactions, we can be there for them in a way that reflects our long history with many of these clients.

因此，我們深厚的本地根基，或許我可以這樣說，我們在歐洲的深厚本地根基是一種優勢，這不僅是因為如果歐洲公司想要在美國關稅壁壘內落戶，這是一個優勢，而是因為透過靠近我們所在的歐洲客戶，無論他們想做什麼，無論是歐洲與歐洲之間的交易，還是歐洲與美國以外的交易，我們都可以為他們提供

That's helpful color. And I guess for my follow-up, you alluded to this a bit in answer to a prior question, but I was just hoping you can give a bit more color on what you're seeing in terms of credit availability at the moment. And specifically, whether you believe that growth in private credit will result in financing being more readily available in a down cycle relative to what we've seen in the past.

這是很有幫助的顏色。我想就我的後續問題而言，您在回答之前的問題時稍微提到了這一點，但我只是希望您能更詳細地說明一下您目前所看到的信貸可用性情況。具體來說，您是否相信私人信貸的成長將導致在經濟下行週期中融資比過去更容易獲得。

Yes, it's a great question. One of the reasons why we have built out a wide array of different ways of serving our clients is precisely because the world is evolving and the growth of private credit in particular is something that is different today than it was a decade ago.

是的，這是一個很好的問題。我們之所以建立了多種不同的客戶服務方式，原因之一正是因為世界不斷發展，尤其是私人信貸的成長與十年前相比已經有所不同。

So our Lazard Capital Solutions group is extremely active in helping corporate figure out innovative financing solutions, and that demand for that goes up as the leveraged loan market and the high-yield market become more challenging just naturally. I mean it's always present as a competitive force, but it becomes yet more attractive when the other sources of financing are more challenging.

因此，我們的 Lazard Capital Solutions 集團非常積極地幫助企業尋找創新的融資解決方案，而且隨著槓桿貸款市場和高收益市場自然變得更具挑戰性，這種需求也會上升。我的意思是，它始終是一種競爭力量，但當其他融資來源更具挑戰性時，它就會變得更具吸引力。

So we are -- this is one area in which we are very, very active and have deployed our banking teams across the globe to help clients explore innovative financing solutions, and we're very pleased to have expanded in this area and be able to help our clients with this new vector.

因此，我們在這個領域非常活躍，並已在全球部署了銀行團隊，幫助客戶探索創新融資解決方案，我們很高興能夠在這個領域擴展業務，並能夠透過這個新途徑幫助我們的客戶。

So how much of an offset it is, we'll have to see. I think the more important point is, as I said before, I would expect that the challenges in the high-yield market and the leveraged loan market will dissipate if there is more certainty provided to the tariff regime and now that there's a little bit more certainty regarding the administration's approach to the Federal Reserve. So I wouldn't just take it's given that the high-yield market and leverage loan market remain in their current state for the foreseeable future. It's very dependent on wide -- governments across the globe, too.

所以偏移量到底有多大，我們還要拭目以待。我認為更重要的一點是，正如我之前所說，如果關稅制度更加確定，並且現在政府對聯準會的態度更加確定，那麼我預計高收益市場和槓桿貸款市場的挑戰將會消失。因此，我不會因為高收益市場和槓桿貸款市場在可預見的未來仍將保持目前的狀態就認為如此。它也非常依賴全球各地的政府。

Great. Thank you for taking my questions.

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。

Mike Brown, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的麥克布朗。

Great, thanks for taking my follow up. I just wanted to ask on the fee rate. It picked up nicely here in the first quarter. And just in light of that, how should we think about the full year fee rate guide? Is the 1Q the right level to consider for the next couple of quarters? Like is that the right jumping off point?

太好了，感謝您接受我的跟進。我只是想問費率。第一季度，這裡的經濟表現良好。那麼，我們該如何看待全年費率指南呢？第一季是否是未來幾季值得考慮的正確水準？這是正確的起點嗎？

Or does the mix shift from the mandates that are set to fund actually start to bring the fee rate down as those flow in?

或者，隨著資金流入，用於資助的授權的組合轉變是否實際上會開始降低費率？

Mike, it's Evan. I'll take this one. I mean, yes, the average fee rate for the quarter was up, obviously increased from Q1 and versus last year as well. As you mentioned, it's due to the business mix, as we've discussed in past quarters. The last couple of quarters, we had a couple of larger outflows that were in lower fee mandates that were larger mandates, which helped the mix this quarter.

麥克，我是埃文。我要這個。我的意思是，是的，本季的平均費率上漲了，明顯比第一季和去年同期都有所上漲。正如您所說，這是由於業務組合造成的，正如我們在過去幾個季度所討論的那樣。在過去的幾個季度中，我們出現了幾筆較大的資金流出，這些資金來自費用較低的委託，這些委託的規模較大，這有助於本季的組合。

Also some of the new flows we had this quarter into some of the global -- you have Japan and others came in at higher fees. And I'd say, look, the pipeline that we keep talking about, the one but not funded is a mix of products and some of the larger mandates.

本季度，我們還有一些新的資金流入了全球部分地區，例如日本和其他國家，費用更高。我想說，你看，我們一直在談論的那個尚未獲得資金支持的管道是各種產品和一些較大的任務的混合。

So depending on the timing of when those things come in, you could have some movement in the next couple of quarters could have a smaller impact. But overall, fee rate stability, which what we've seen over the last several quarters has been a positive story for us across the platform and the newer products and newer vehicles that, from a strategic planning perspective, that we've been putting in there should continue to support this over time.

因此，根據這些事情發生的時間，未來幾季可能會出現一些變化，但影響可能會較小。但總體而言，我們在過去幾季中看到的費率穩定性對我們整個平台以及從策略規劃角度投入的新產品和新工具來說都是一個積極的故事，這些產品和工具應該會繼續支持這一點。

As to the jumping off point, because of some of that movement and some of the idiosyncratic timing of some of the flows. I would say it's probably better to assume the average of 2024 is probably where we average for 2025 as a jumping off point, but it's going to move around a little bit quarter-to-quarter as it has. And so far, it's been a positive story in Q1.

至於起點，由於某些運動和某些流程的特殊時間。我想說，最好假設 2024 年的平均值可能是我們 2025 年平均值的起點，但它會像以前一樣逐季度略有波動。到目前為止，第一季的業績表現積極。

Okay, great. Thanks Evan.

好的，太好了。謝謝埃文。

Thank you, and ladies and gentlemen, that is our last question for this morning. So that will bring us to the conclusion of today's conference call. Mr. Orszag, I'd like to turn things back to you for any closing comments.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們，這是我們今天早上的最後一個問題。今天的電話會議就到此結束了。奧爾薩格先生，我想把話題轉回給您，請您做最後的評論。

Yes, I would just close by saying it is clear that we are in a period of massively heightened uncertainty, but it's two things about Lazard to make it a moment in which our clients seek out our advice disproportionately. The first is that we have always had, in our DNA, this ability to combine business and financial decision-making with insight into what governments are doing.

是的，最後我想說的是，我們顯然正處於一個高度不確定的時期，但 Lazard 的兩個特點使得我們的客戶在這一刻不成比例地尋求我們的建議。首先，我們始終具有將商業和金融決策與對政府行為的洞察相結合的能力。

That skill set is more important than ever because it is, I think, increasingly obvious to everyone that you can't make a decision just within the four corners of the Excel spreadsheet. You need to take into account the policy and government backdrop to that, and that is a core competency of Lazard.

這項技能比以往任何時候都更加重要，因為我認為，每個人都越來越清楚地認識到，你不能僅僅根據 Excel 電子表格的四個角落來做出決定。您需要考慮政策和政府背景，這是 Lazard 的核心競爭力。

And the second is that our diversified business model, both geographically and with regard to what products and services and other ways of helping clients we're able to offer tends to shine in moments like this because it allows us to skate to where the client needs are very quickly. And so we all hope that the uncertainty is resolved sooner rather than later, but Lazard's business model is resilient to all the various scenarios that we may be playing through in the coming months and quarters.

第二，我們的多元化商業模式，無論是在地域上，還是在產品、服務以及其他我們能夠提供的客戶幫助方式方面，往往在這樣的時刻大放異彩，因為它使我們能夠非常迅速地到達客戶需要的地方。因此，我們都希望不確定性能夠盡快解決，但 Lazard 的商業模式能夠抵禦未來幾個月和幾季可能遇到的各種情況。

Thank you very much for joining us.

非常感謝您加入我們。

Thank you, Mr. Orszag. Again, ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's Lazard's first quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Again, thanks so much for joining us, everyone. And we wish you all a great day.

謝謝您，奧爾薩格先生。女士們、先生們，今天的 Lazard 2025 年第一季財報電話會議就到此結束。再次感謝大家的參與。我們祝福大家有個愉快的一天。

Goodbye.

再見。