庫力索法 (KLIC) 2020 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Kulicke and Soffa's Third Quarter (sic) [Fourth Quarter] Results Conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加庫利克和索法第三季（原文如此）[第四季]結果電話會議。 （操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。

It's now my pleasure to introduce your host, Joe Elgindy, Senior Director of Investment Relations for Kulicke and Soffa. Thank you. Mr. Elgindy, you may begin.

現在我很高興向大家介紹主持人喬·埃爾金迪 (Joe Elgindy)，他是 Kulicke and Soffa 投資關係高級總監。謝謝。埃爾金迪先生，您可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome, everyone, to Kulicke and Soffa's Fourth Quarter Fiscal 2020 Conference Call. Joining us on the call today are Fusen Chen, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Lester Wong, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝。歡迎大家參加 Kulicke 和 Soffa 的 2020 財年第四季電話會議。今天加入我們電話會議的是總裁兼執行長陳福森；和財務長 Lester Wong。

For those of you who have not received a copy of today's results, the release as well as the supplemental earnings presentation are both available in the Investor Relations section of our website at investor.kns.com.

對於尚未收到今天業績副本的人，可以在我們網站 Investor.kns.com 的投資者關係部分獲取新聞稿和補充收益演示。

This new supplemental earnings presentation provides additional details regarding end market trends and our outlook. In addition to historical statements, today's remarks will contain statements relating to future events and our future results. These statements are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Our actual results and financial condition may differ materially from what is indicated in those forward-looking statements.

這份新的補充收益報告提供了有關終端市場趨勢和我們的前景的更多詳細資訊。除了歷史陳述之外，今天的演講還將包含與未來事件和我們未來結果有關的陳述。這些陳述是 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性陳述。

For a complete discussion of the risks associated with Kulicke and Soffa that could affect our future results and financial condition, please refer to our recent SEC filings, specifically the 10-K for the year ended September 28, 2019, the 10-Q for the period ending March 28, 2020, the 10-Q for the period ending June 27, 2020, and the 8-K filed yesterday.

有關與Kulicke 和Soffa 相關的可能影響我們未來業績和財務狀況的風險的完整討論，請參閱我們最近向SEC 提交的文件，特別是截至2019 年9 月28 日的年度10-K、截至2019 年9月28 日的10-Q截至2020年3月28日的期間、截至2020年6月27日的期間的10-Q以及昨天提交的8-K。

With that said, I would now like to turn the call over to Fusen Chen for the business overview. Please go ahead, Fusen.

話雖如此，我現在想把電話轉給陳福森，了解一下業務概況。請繼續，福森。

Thank you, Joe. We are pleased to report that despite global COVID-19 related challenges, our operations, pace of development and supply chain remain healthy, as they were through the June quarter end. Our focus on employee welfare, collaboration and safety has allowed our global workforce to operate efficiently through this unique period. We are proud of the resilience, flexibility and dedication of our employees.

謝謝你，喬。我們很高興地報告，儘管全球面臨與新冠肺炎 (COVID-19) 相關的挑戰，但我們的營運、開發速度和供應鏈仍然保持健康，就像截至 6 月季度末一樣。我們對員工福利、協作和安全的關注使我們的全球員工能夠在這個獨特的時期高效運作。我們為員工的韌性、靈活性和奉獻精神感到自豪。

We are also pleased with our pace of development, new product traction and the improving state of our core business. Our global development teams continue to make significant and meaningful progress on several fronts, increasing our long-term alignment with significant technology transitions impacting the semiconductor assembly market, the automotive market and the display market.

我們也對我們的發展速度、新產品的吸引力以及核心業務的改善狀況感到滿意。我們的全球開發團隊繼續在多個方面取得重大且有意義的進展，增強我們與影響半導體組裝市場、汽車市場和顯示器市場的重大技術轉型的長期一致性。

Within our core semiconductor assembly space, memory, logic and image sensor applications are adopting more complex, heterogeneous integration, which is increasing interest and adoption of higher-density packaging options, such as high-accuracy flip chip and thermo-compression.

在我們的核心半導體組裝領域，記憶體、邏輯和影像感測器應用正在採用更複雜的異構集成，這增加了人們對高精度倒裝晶片和熱壓縮等更高密度封裝選項的興趣和採用。

Fundamental challenges with two-dimensional node shrink are well reported and new packaging approach provide an alternative path to deliver both cost savings and performance. This fundamental change is essentially extending the value of back-end assembly, which benefits our core high-volume businesses as well as our dedicated advanced packaging solutions.

二維節點縮小的基本挑戰已充分報道，新的封裝方法提供了另一種途徑來節省成本並提高效能。這項根本性變化本質上是擴展後端組裝的價值，這有利於我們的核心大批量業務以及我們專用的先進封裝解決方案。

Customers are seeking solutions and technology partners for emerging 2D and 3D multi-chip assembly techniques. Here, we see heterogeneous integration for complex logic systems, memory, mobile applications processors and image sensors driving a need for our Katalyst and APAMA dedicated advanced packaging systems.

客戶正在尋找新興 2D 和 3D 多晶片組裝技術的解決方案和技術合作夥伴。在這裡，我們看到複雜邏輯系統、記憶體、行動應用處理器和影像感測器的異質整合推動了對 Katalyst 和 APAMA 專用先進封裝系統的需求。

In parallel, we are seeing general system-in-package applications for high-volume, cost-sensitive devices, which continue to benefit our core wire bonder business. We are actively engaged and well positioned to support this ongoing transition and anticipate adoption to accelerate over the coming years.

同時，我們看到了用於大批量、成本敏感設備的通用系統級封裝應用，這繼續有利於我們的核心焊線機業務。我們積極參與並做好充分準備來支持這一持續的過渡，並預計在未來幾年加速採用。

Next, major trends, such as autonomous, plug-in hybrid and fully electric vehicles are increasing semiconductor demand for the broad automotive market. Our multiple products and broad base of automotive customers provide insight to the progression of this transition.

接下來，自動駕駛、插電式混合動力和全電動汽車等主要趨勢正在增加廣大汽車市場的半導體需求。我們的多種產品和廣泛的汽車客戶群為這一轉變的進展提供了洞察力。

We anticipate demand for our high-reliability and performance-focused automotive systems to grow along with demand for plug-in hybrid and fully electric vehicles. Our initial success in automotive power storage and distribution solutions has been beneficial even with electric vehicles, representing only a tiny fraction of today's global production.

我們預計，對高可靠性和注重性能的汽車系統的需求將隨著插電式混合動力和全電動汽車的需求而成長。我們在汽車電力儲存和配電解決方案方面的初步成功即使對於僅佔當今全球產量的一小部分的電動車也是有益的。

We have recently experienced increased demand for power semiconductor applications supporting electric vehicles as well as charging station infrastructure. Although traditional automotive demand has been below our long-term average, we expect a gradual recovery to continue and remain well positioned to support this broader technology transition.

最近，我們發現對支援電動車和充電站基礎設施的功率半導體應用的需求不斷增加。儘管傳統汽車需求一直低於我們的長期平均水平，但我們預計將繼續逐步復甦，並保持良好狀態以支持更廣泛的技術轉型。

Finally, within display, we continue to ramp production of our PIXALUX system, which is a critical solution to enable new forms of backlighting. This transition is a logical evolution that can deliver performance and power efficiency for the high-volume display market.

最後，在顯示器領域，我們持續提高 PIXALUX 系統的產量，該系統是實現新型背光的關鍵解決方案。這種轉變是一種邏輯演進，可以為大容量顯示器市場提供性能和功效。

Advanced LED unit growth forecasts are significant. Mini- and micro-LED annual unit production is expected to approach 500 billion units, roughly half of current annual semiconductor production by calendar year 2022 and will continue growing aggressively for several years. This represents a significant capital equipment opportunity for sorting, mixing and final placement.

先進 LED 單位的成長預測非常重要。到 2022 年，Mini 和 Micro LED 年產量預計將接近 5,000 億顆，大約是目前半導體年產量的一半，並將在未來幾年繼續強勁增長。這代表了用於分類、混合和最終放置的重要資本設備機會。

We are pleased with the performance, market acceptance and the rapid development of PIXALUX and are committed to developing additional technology solutions that support this broad advanced LED transition.

我們對 PIXALUX 的性能、市場接受度和快速發展感到滿意，並致力於開發更多技術解決方案來支援這項廣泛的先進 LED 轉型。

As we execute toward these long-term trends supporting advanced packaging, automotive and display, we also anticipate a more fundamental recovery in our core businesses driven by an improving semiconductor unit growth rate. As a reminder, semiconductor unit production declined steeply in early fiscal year 2019, which dramatically reduced the industry's need for incremental equipment capacity. This extended decline in production is historically uncommon and seems to be behind us.

在我們朝著支持先進封裝、汽車和顯示器的長期趨勢發展的同時，我們也預計，在半導體單位成長率提高的推動下，我們的核心業務將出現更根本性的復甦。需要提醒的是，2019 財年年初，半導體單位產量急劇下降，這大大減少了產業對增量設備產能的需求。這種產量的持續下降在歷史上並不常見，而且似乎已經成為過去。

Based on our September results, near-term outlook and recent customer feedback, we continue to anticipate an ongoing unit-driven recovery throughout fiscal 2021 and expect unit growth, excluding advanced LED, to return to a more normal growth rate over the coming years.

根據我們9 月份的業績、近期展望和最近的客戶反饋，我們繼續預計整個2021 財年將出現單位驅動的持續復甦，並預計單位增長（不包括先進LED）將在未來幾年恢復到更正常的增長率。

After an extended period of low capacity additions, unit growth recovery is being driven by 5G, work from home, consumer products and smartphone recovery. These end market dynamics and our advanced LED ramping are anticipated to shift our seasonal demand pattern through fiscal year 2021. Historically, demand for our products is stronger during the second fiscal half, although we are anticipating demand to be first half weighted in fiscal 2021.

在經歷了長時間的低產能增量之後，5G、在家工作、消費品和智慧型手機的復甦推動了單位成長的復甦。這些終端市場動態和我們先進的LED 產能擴張預計將在2021 財年改變我們的季節性需求模式。年上半年加權。

While demand is currently strong, the broad macroenvironment remains dynamic. Considering the uncertain environment and our limited visibility, we are anticipating revenue within fiscal year 2021 to increase by approximately 20% to 25% over fiscal year 2020. This estimate assumes annual semiconductor unit growth, excluding advanced LED, will return to a historic average of 6% to 7% during the fiscal 2021 year.

儘管目前需求強勁，但宏觀環境仍充滿活力。考慮到環境的不確定性和我們有限的能見度，我們預計2021 財年的收入將比2020 財年增長約20% 至25%。恢復到歷史平均2021 財年增長 6% 至 7%。

Turning back to the September quarter's performance, capital equipment increased by 21% and APS increased by 9% sequentially. Capital equipment represents 76% of overall revenue and the sequential growth was largely due to a steep recovery within the general semiconductor market. General semiconductor is our largest end market and the most OSAT-based customers fall into this category.

回到 9 月季度的業績，資本設備環比成長 21%，APS 環比成長 9%。資本設備佔總營收的 76%，季增主要歸功於一般半導體市場的急劇復甦。通用半導體是我們最大的終端市場，大多數 OSAT 客戶都屬於這一類。

In prior calls, we have consistently discussed how the installed base of wire bonders has been running near full utilization rates. At this point, incremental semiconductor output is triggering the need for broader capacity additions in the general semiconductor space. We see strength in 5G, smartphones, gaming, IoT and an increasing demand for multi die, wire bonded packages.

在先前的電話會議中，我們一直在討論焊線機的安裝基礎如何接近滿載運轉。此時，半導體產量的增加引發了整個半導體領域對更廣泛產能增加的需求。我們看到了 5G、智慧型手機、遊戲、物聯網的優勢以及對多晶片、引線鍵合封裝不斷增長的需求。

While our general semiconductor end market showed the steepest sequential change, we also experienced sequential improvements within the advanced LED market. LED overall was sequentially down due to a sizeable set of general lighting orders in the June quarter, although our advanced LED sales for the display market increased sequentially. We expect healthy demand for both general lighting and advanced LED applications over the coming quarters.

雖然我們的一般半導體終端市場呈現最陡峭的環比變化，但我們在先進 LED 市場中也經歷了環比改善。儘管我們在顯示器市場的高級 LED 銷售額環比增長，但由於 6 月份季度大量通用照明訂單，LED 整體環比下降。我們預計未來幾季通用照明和先進 LED 應用的需求將會強勁。

The auto and industrial end market as well as our memory end market improved sequentially, although remain well below their long-term average. Within auto and industrial, we are seeing a gradual recovery in the traditional automotive market. In memory, we are beginning to see a few customers adding overall capacity and we expect this market to recover as general semiconductor also recovers.

汽車和工業終端市場以及我們的記憶體終端市場連續改善，但仍遠低於長期平均值。在汽車和工業領域，我們看到傳統汽車市場逐漸復甦。在記憶體領域，我們開始看到一些客戶增加了整體產能，我們預計該市場將隨著通用半導體的復甦而復甦。

The advanced packaging end market also grew sequentially and represents our dedicated advanced packaging systems that support high-accuracy flip chip, stud bumping, mass reflow system in package and thermo-compression, and includes our Katalyst, APAMA and AT Premier systems.

先進封裝終端市場也持續成長，代表了我們專用的先進封裝系統，支援高精度倒裝晶片、螺柱凸點、封裝內大規模回流焊接系統和熱壓縮，包括我們的Katalyst、APAMA 和AT Premier 系統。

While this dedicated advanced packaging end market represents just 9% of capital equipment sales, it's important to note that multi die advanced packages and advanced LED assembly are becoming material components of our higher (sic) [higher volume] general semiconductor, memory and now LED end markets. Collectively, we estimate that over 30% of our capital equipment sales during the September quarter support advanced packages.

雖然這個專用的先進封裝終端市場僅佔資本設備銷售額的9%，但值得注意的是，多晶片先進封裝和先進LED 組裝正在成為我們更高（原文如此）[更高產量]通用半導體、記憶體和現在LED 的材料組件終端市場。總的來說，我們估計 9 月季度超過 30% 的固定設備銷售額支援先進套件。

Looking into the December quarter, we anticipate general semiconductor and LED to be the primary drivers of near-term demand. We anticipate strong demand through the December quarter, which again suggests fiscal 2021 will not follow a historical seasonal pattern. Operationally, we are focused on ramping production levels to satisfy the strong demand level anticipated for December.

展望 12 月季度，我們預期通用半導體和 LED 將成為近期需求的主要驅動力。我們預計整個 12 月季度的需求將會強勁，這再次表明 2021 財年將不會遵循歷史季節性模式。在營運方面，我們的重點是提高生產水平，以滿足 12 月預期的強勁需求水準。

Over the past few years, the broader industry and macro environment was challenging, although the strength of our balance sheet and market positions allowed us to execute our market expansion strategy, create new long-term growth vectors and return capital to investors.

在過去的幾年裡，儘管我們的資產負債表和市場地位的實力使我們能夠執行市場擴張策略，創造新的長期成長向量並向投資者返還資本，但更廣泛的行業和宏觀環境充滿挑戰。

I am confident in the company's direction and expect new opportunities in automotive, display and advanced packaging, combined with a broader general semiconductor recovery, to fundamentally enhance our business model over the coming years.

我對公司的發展方向充滿信心，並期待汽車、顯示器和先進封裝領域的新機遇，再加上更廣泛的半導體復甦，能夠在未來幾年從根本上增強我們的業務模式。

I would now like to turn the call over to Lester Wong, who will cover this quarter's financial overview in greater detail. Lester?

我現在想將電話轉給 Lester Wong，他將更詳細地介紹本季的財務概況。萊斯特？

Thank you, Fusen. My remarks today will refer to GAAP results unless noted.

謝謝你，福森。除非另有說明，我今天的演講將參考公認會計準則結果。

While fiscal 2020 clearly came with challenges, we were able to generate full-year revenue of $623.2 million, representing a 15% year-over-year increase. Income from operations during fiscal 2020 came in at $58.5 million and represented a 171% sequential increase, highlighting our business model's operating leverage and potential as we execute on our strategic goals.

儘管 2020 財年顯然面臨挑戰，但我們仍實現了 6.232 億美元的全年收入，年增 15%。 2020 財年的營運收入為 5,850 萬美元，環比成長 171%，凸顯了我們業務模式的營運槓桿和在我們執行策略目標時的潛力。

For the September quarter, net revenue was $177.7 million, up 18.1% sequentially. Gross margins came in at 50% and generated net income of $15.8 million and $0.25 of EPS. On a non-GAAP basis, we generated net income of $18 million or $0.29 per diluted share.

9 月季度的淨收入為 1.777 億美元，比上一季成長 18.1%。毛利率為 50%，淨利潤為 1,580 萬美元，每股收益為 0.25 美元。以非 GAAP 計算，我們的淨利潤為 1800 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益 0.29 美元。

Gross margins came in much better than expectations. This was partially due to the favorable product mix and also a favorable end-of-year adjustment related to our warranty accrual. Without this favorable adjustment, gross margins would have been approximately 47%. However, we are anticipating gross margins to be around 45% over the coming quarters.

毛利率遠好於預期。這部分是由於有利的產品組合以及與我們的保固應計相關的有利的年終調整。如果沒有這項有利調整，毛利率約為 47%。然而，我們預計未來幾季的毛利率將在 45% 左右。

Operating expenses for the quarter came in on the higher end of our long-term target range due to end-of-year incentive compensation accruals associated with the stronger September financial performance.

由於與 9 月份強勁的財務業績相關的年終激勵薪酬應計費用，本季度的營運費用達到了我們長期目標範圍的較高端。

As Fusen mentioned, our global development and operational teams continue to aggressively work towards several long-term initiatives, while we also ramp near-term production capacity. We also have several SG&A related projects that have been delayed due to the softer demand environment over the past year.

正如 Fusen 所提到的，我們的全球開發和營運團隊繼續積極致力於多項長期計劃，同時我們也提高了近期產能。由於過去一年的需求環境疲軟，我們還有幾個與銷售、管理和行政費用相關的項目被推遲。

We anticipate our GAAP operating expense model to remain consistent at $53 million of fixed expense plus 5% to 7% of variable expenses tied to revenue. However, we are anticipating the variable component to approach the higher side over the coming quarters.

我們預計我們的 GAAP 營運費用模式將保持在 5,300 萬美元的固定費用加上與收入相關的 5% 至 7% 的可變費用。然而，我們預計未來幾季可變成分將接近較高水準。

Tax expense for the quarter came in at $8 million due to increased profitability and jurisdictional (sic) [end-of-year jurisdictional] adjustments. Our total effective tax rate for the year came in just above our long-term tax target of 18%.

由於盈利能力的提高和司法管轄區 (原文如此) [年終司法管轄區] 的調整，本季度的稅務費用為 800 萬美元。我們今年的總有效稅率略高於 18% 的長期稅收目標。

Turning to the balance sheet. We ended the September quarter with a total net cash and investment position of $530.1 million, which was up sequentially by $14.3 million and represented $8.49 per diluted share. On a book value per share basis, we closed the September quarter with $12.30, representing a slight sequential improvement. We generated $25.8 million of free cash flow in the September quarter, driven by higher operating income and strong working capital performance.

轉向資產負債表。截至 9 月季末，我們的淨現金和投資部位總額為 5.301 億美元，比上一季增加了 1,430 萬美元，攤薄後每股收益為 8.49 美元。以每股帳面價值計算，9 月季度收盤價為 12.30 美元，季比略有改善。在較高的營業收入和強勁的營運資本表現的推動下，我們在 9 月季度產生了 2,580 萬美元的自由現金流。

From a days standpoint, we improved working capital efficiency during the September quarter. Days of accounts receivable was down from 117 to 101 days, days of inventory improved from 127 to 113 days and days of accounts payable increased from 55 to 58 days.

從天數的角度來看，我們在九月季度提高了營運資金效率。應收帳款天數從 117 天減少至 101 天，庫存天數從 127 天改善至 113 天，應付帳款天數從 55 天增加至 58 天。

For the December quarter, we are guiding revenues to be approximately $240 million plus or minus $10 million. We are guiding gross margins to be approximately 45% plus or minus 50 basis points due largely to product mix and higher freight charges. This margin forecast also supports a near-term market share strategy for a recently introduced product in our wedge bonding business.

對於 12 月所在季度，我們預計營收約為 2.4 億美元上下 1,000 萬美元。我們預計毛利率約為 45% 正負 50 個基點，這主要是由於產品組合和較高的運費。這項利潤率預測也支持我們楔焊業務中最近推出的產品的近期市場份額策略。

GAAP operating expenses is expected to be approximately $70 million plus or minus 2% and non-GAAP EPS to be $0.53 plus or minus 10%. This guidance suggests operating income should increase by over 60% sequentially and highlights the business model's leverage. This also highlights our potential to create meaningful long-term shareholder value as we support the significant transitions within the semiconductor, automotive and display markets.

GAAP 營運費用預計約為 7,000 萬美元，上下浮動 2%，非 GAAP 每股盈餘預計為 0.53 美元上下上下 10%。該指引建議營業收入應較上季成長 60% 以上，並強調了商業模式的槓桿作用。這也凸顯了我們在支持半導體、汽車和顯示器市場重大轉型時創造有意義的長期股東價值的潛力。

This concludes our prepared comments. Operator, please open the call for questions.

我們準備好的評論到此結束。接線員，請打開電話提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today is coming from Craig Ellis from B. Riley.

（操作員說明）我們今天的第一個問題來自 B. Riley 的 Craig Ellis。

Congratulations on the strong recovery in the business guys. The first question I wanted to follow-up on with some of the elements related to guidance. I believe that one of the things you mentioned Lester was that, that OpEx will be on the high side of the typical model. So can you just help us understand how long that will play out and give us some further insight into the specific expenses that are keeping OpEx towards the high end of the modest range.

祝賀商界人士的強勁復甦。第一個問題我想跟進一些與指導相關的要素。我相信您提到萊斯特的一件事是，營運支出將處於典型模型的偏高位置。那麼，您能否幫助我們了解這種情況會持續多久，並讓我們進一步了解使營運支出保持在適度範圍高端的具體費用。

Sure, Craig. I mean, as we've indicated before over the last couple of quarters, we've had a lower level of spending over the past 6 quarters due to lower travel, initially cost reduction reasons during the semi downturn in '19 and, obviously, because of COVID now. We also have lower variable expenses. And also, as I said, during 2019, we had a very focused corporate-wide reduction on less critical and discretionary related expenses. Basically, we pushed out certain projects that was not critical at the time. Some of these projects are now being more critical. And we're also actually increasing our technology engagement with new customers. So I think for the rest of FY '21, again, I don't guide beyond the quarter, but I would say that it would probably be on the high side of the that 7% -- 5% to 7% variable.

當然，克雷格。我的意思是，正如我們在過去幾個季度中所指出的那樣，由於旅行減少，以及 19 年半低迷期間最初的成本削減原因，我們在過去 6 個季度的支出水平較低，而且顯然，因為現在有新冠病毒。我們的變動費用也較低。而且，正如我所說，2019 年期間，我們在全公司範圍內非常有針對性地削減了不太重要和可自由支配的相關費用。基本上，我們推出了一些當時不重要的項目。其中一些項目現在變得更加關鍵。我們實際上也增加了與新客戶的技術互動。因此，我認為對於 21 財年的剩餘時間，我不會在本季度之後提供指導，但我想說，它可能會處於 7% 至 5% 至 7% 變數的偏高位置。

That's helpful. And then I'll turn to a couple of product questions, if I could. First, Fusen, can you just give us a better sense of what you're seeing for PIXALUX, APAMA and Katalyst as we go through fiscal '21? It sounds like end market demand is coming back fairly broadly and it seems like you've got good traction with those products. But any color and an update on PIXALUX's fiscal '21 prospect specifically would be helpful.

這很有幫助。如果可以的話，然後我將轉向幾個產品問題。首先，Fusen，您能否讓我們更了解您對 21 財年 PIXALUX、APAMA 和 Katalyst 的看法？聽起來終端市場需求正在相當廣泛地恢復，而且這些產品似乎對您有很大的吸引力。但任何顏色和 PIXALUX '21 財年前景的更新都會有幫助。

Sure. For the PIXALUX, we previously, in our call, we gave a target to achieve our $40 million revenue for FY '20. So I am very happy to report that we achieved the goal. For the FY '21 -- actually, first quarter of FY '21, we see a sequential growth compared to Q4 of FY '20. And we are guiding maybe a run rate for next couple of quarters, FY '21 Q1 to Q4. I think roughly it's going to be between $15 million to $20 million. So we actually will expect conservatively, we will achieve $60 million to $80 million for PIXALUX for FY '21.

當然。對於 PIXALUX，我們先前在電話會議中給出了 20 財年實現 4,000 萬美元收入的目標。所以我很高興地報告我們實現了目標。對於 21 財年——實際上是 21 財年第一季度，我們看到與 20 財年第四季相比出現環比增長。我們可能正在指導未來幾季（21 財年第一季至第四季）的運行率。我認為大約在 1500 萬美元到 2000 萬美元之間。因此，我們實際上保守地預計，21 財年 PIXALUX 的營收將達到 6,000 萬至 8,000 萬美元。

I think at '22, we have a goal to be $100 million business and somewhere around '21, '22, we intend to introduce a new product to the market. And beyond '22, we believe we -- this business should grow faster. And our plan is to reach above $100 million and we'll grow positively. So our goal is along '24, '25 hopefully, I think, 20% of our K&S revenue product revenue probably will be display related, right? So that's PIXALUX.

我認為在 22 年，我們的目標是實現 1 億美元的業務，在 21 年、22 年左右，我們打算向市場推出新產品。 22 年後，我們相信這項業務應該會成長得更快。我們的計劃是達到 1 億美元以上，並且我們將積極成長。所以我們的目標是 24、25 年，我認為我們的 K&S 產品收入的 20% 可能與顯示相關，對吧？這就是 PIXALUX。

In advanced packaging, particularly our TCB, I think heterogenous integration is very important in my script. And we believe we make a very good traction, and we believe we will intend to have a few design wins in '21. And for the advanced packaging, we expect to be much bigger, I think, in '22.

在高級封裝中，特別是我們的TCB，我認為異質整合在我的腳本中非常重要。我們相信我們會取得很好的牽引力，我們相信我們將打算在 21 年贏得一些設計勝利。對於先進封裝，我認為我們預計在 22 年規模會更大。

So any other questions?

那麼還有其他問題嗎？

That was helpful. Yes, 1 more question, then I'll hop back in the queue. So I appreciate the color on fiscal '21's revenue potential. So it looks like if I'm doing the math right, that the company expects around $760 million in revenue, and that assumes 6% to 7% and semi unit growth. I think in the past, you noted that it's possible that semi growth would be as high as 10% in '21 and '22 following 2 years of below seasonal growth.

這很有幫助。是的，還有 1 個問題，然後我會跳回佇列。因此，我很欣賞 21 財年的收入潛力。因此，如果我計算正確的話，該公司預計收入約為 7.6 億美元，並假設成長率為 6% 至 7% 和半單位成長率。我認為過去您曾指出，在連續兩年低於季節性增長之後，21 年和 22 年的半增長率可能高達 10%。

So if we see semi unit growth more in the double-digit range versus 6% to 7%, how would we think about the model's potential for upside versus the 20% to 25% or $760 million-ish in revenue?

因此，如果我們看到半單位成長更多地在兩位數範圍內，而不是6% 到7%，那麼相對於20% 到25% 或7.6 億美元左右的收入，我們會如何看待該模型的上漲潛力？

So maybe, Craig, I can answer this. We feel good about the current business recovery. And we feel this is sustainable. So at this moment, what we plan is for the 20% to 25%. And you mentioned at least close to maybe $760 million to maybe $790 million translate. So at this moment, that's our plan. And we plan to have revenue more weighted in the first half, but I think we will have a better outlook about the strength of our second half. So that's what we are planning. But it looks like this recovery is sustainable, and we'll give you more update may in the next quarter.

克雷格，也許我可以回答這個問題。我們對目前的業務復甦感到滿意。我們認為這是可持續的。所以目前我們的計畫是20%到25%。你提到至少接近 7.6 億美元到 7.9 億美元的翻譯。所以此時此刻，這就是我們的計劃。我們計劃在上半年增加收入權重，但我認為我們將對下半年的實力有更好的展望。這就是我們的計劃。但看起來這種復甦是可持續的，我們可能會在下個季度為您提供更多更新。

Your next question today is coming from Tom Diffely from D.A. Davidson.

今天你們的下一個問題是來自 D.A. 的 Tom Diffely。戴維森。

Maybe just a follow-up on the last line of questioning. So what is driving the unusual seasonality or lack of seasonality this year versus previous years? Is it really just a recovery in the general semiconductor ahead of expectations?

也許只是最後一行提問的後續。那麼，與往年相比，今年季節性異常或缺乏季節性的原因是什麼？難道真的只是通用半導體的復甦超預期嗎？

Okay. So Tom, let me give you a little bit of color on the area of strength we are seeing, right? So currently, we are seeing strength in 5G, consumer products, IoT, smartphone and the increase in SiP, also multi-die wire bonding package, right, and we also see ongoing strength in both traditional LED and advanced LED for display, the product we just introduced.

好的。那麼湯姆，讓我給你一些關於我們所看到的力量領域的顏色，對吧？因此，目前，我們看到 5G、消費性產品、物聯網、智慧型手機以及 SiP 和多晶片引線鍵合封裝的成長，對吧，我們還看到傳統 LED 和先進 LED 顯示領域的持續優勢，該產品我們剛剛介紹過。

So I can summarize, I think there are few reasons behind the strength. So number one. In 2019-2020, I mentioned a few times, our customers underinvest, right? So when you got to reach over a certain number are triggering another large to actually in critical business. So it's because of underinvestment in our core product from customers.

所以我可以總結一下，我認為實力背後有幾個原因。所以第一。 2019-2020年，我多次提到，我們的客戶投資不足，對嗎？因此，當您達到一定數量時，實際上會在關鍵業務中觸發另一個大事件。這是因為客戶對我們核心產品的投資不足。

And number 2, I think this recovery is also related to consumer pattern change, such as the work from home and also stay at home, that drives more need in PC, gaming and the other home application, right?

第二，我認為這種復甦也與消費者模式的變化有關，例如在家工作和留在家裡，這推動了對 PC、遊戲和其他家庭應用程式的更多需求，對嗎？

So number 3 reason, I think, is significant for us. Actually, we see 5G investment. 5G actually is a key end market. That drives a lot of increase in demand for SiP and very complex multi-die wire bonded module in the packages.

所以我認為第三個原因對我們來說很重要。事實上，我們看到了5G的投資。 5G其實是一個關鍵的終端市場。這推動了對 SiP 和封裝中非常複雜的多晶片引線鍵合模組的需求大幅成長。

So the increase in complexity in these devices actually drive incremental capacity, capacity requirement for our advanced wire bonder. So that's what we are seeing.

因此，這些設備複雜性的增加實際上推動了產能的增加，以及我們先進焊線機的產能需求。這就是我們所看到的。

In simple language, I think wire bonder actually is also important part of the 5G investment. So the last reason, as I mentioned already, in this upcycle, we also see ongoing strength for both our traditional LED and advanced LED products, which we introduced. So these are few reasons behind the current strength we are seeing.

簡單來說，我認為焊線機實際上也是5G投資的重要組成部分。所以最後一個原因，正如我已經提到的，在這個升級週期中，我們也看到我們推出的傳統 LED 和先進 LED 產品的持續強勢。因此，這些是我們所看到的當前強勢背後的幾個原因。

Okay. No, I appreciate the color. That's pretty impressive. Okay. And then just to follow-up on the PIXALUX 2. When we look at the growth from $40 million this year to $80 million or so next year, does that require an expansion to multiple customers? Or does it require a new tool from you? What are the individual growth drivers? Or is it just the market itself is it going to be a little stronger?

好的。不，我很欣賞這個顏色。這真是令人印象深刻。好的。然後是 PIXALUX 2 的後續。或者它需要您使用新工具嗎？個人成長動力是什麼？或者只是市場本身會變得更強一點？

Okay. I think that it's -- actually, it's both, but actually more probably it's our intention in the next 2 years also or 1 year also, we intend to introduce multiple products to broaden our advanced LED portfolio. And we do expect ongoing development activities. The effort we put in will sustain our competitive advantage as we broaden our advanced LED portfolio.

好的。我認為，實際上，兩者兼而有之，但實際上更可能的是我們在未來 2 年或 1 年的意圖，我們打算推出多種產品來擴大我們先進的 LED 產品組合。我們確實期待持續的開發活動。隨著我們擴大先進的 LED 產品組合，我們所付出的努力將保持我們的競爭優勢。

So I mentioned $40 million in '21 about $80 million, and beyond that, I think that we will need multiple products to drive this business, and we are preparing for that.

因此，我在 21 年提到了 4000 萬美元，大約是 8000 萬美元，除此之外，我認為我們將需要多種產品來推動這項業務，我們正在為此做好準備。

Great. Okay. And then finally, maybe just a quick overview of what your expectations are for the APAMA and Katalyst in '21 as well?

偉大的。好的。最後，也許只是快速概述一下您對 21 年的 APAMA 和 Katalyst 的期望？

Okay. So '21 -- I think we're still working on a few design wins, although we already had a few, but we actually will try to complete all our targets. And we feel confident in '21 to win a few more design wins. I think the '22 will be a more significant one, right? So in '22, I mentioned our PIXALUX and the display business is around $100 million, that's our goal. We also expect maybe at that time, our dedicated dedicated advanced packaging, we talked about the flip chip TCB and also AT Premier, all these together can also reach about $100 million. That is really our current goal.

好的。所以 21 年——我認為我們仍在努力爭取一些設計勝利，儘管我們已經取得了一些勝利，但我們實際上會努力完成所有目標。我們對 21 年贏得更多設計勝利充滿信心。我認為 22 年會是更重要的一年，對嗎？所以在 22 年，我提到了我們的 PIXALUX，顯示器業務大約是 1 億美元，這是我們的目標。我們也預計到時候，我們專門的專用先進封裝，我們講到倒裝晶片TCB，還有AT Premier，所有這些加起來也能達到1億美元左右。這確實是我們目前的目標。

Our next question is coming from Krish Sankar from Cowen and Company.

我們的下一個問題來自 Cowen and Company 的 Krish Sankar。

Congrats on the very impressive guidance. I have a couple of them. First one, Fusen, if I try to take your comments on FY '21 revenues growing 20% to 25% and more first half fiscal year weighted, it looks like the December quarter midpoint of $240 million is probably going to be the highest revenue quarter in FY '21. I just want to doublecheck on that math if that's true? And secondly, is that mainly because the PIXALUX is really front-loaded with new products like mini LED coming out in Q1 of next year, calendar Q1, and, therefore, it will like slow down after that?

恭喜您令人印象深刻的指導。我有幾個。首先，Fusen，如果我嘗試將您對 21 財年收入增長 20% 至 25% 以及上半財年加權的評論，看起來 12 月季度中點 2.4 億美元可能將成為收入最高的季度在21 財年。我只是想仔細檢查數學是否屬實？其次，這主要是因為 PIXALUX 確實提前推出了明年第一季、日曆第一季推出的 mini LED 等新產品，因此，在那之後它會放慢速度嗎？

So Krish, let me answer that. I don't think we said the December quarter will be the highest quarter for fiscal '21. We did say that seasonality has switched to the front end -- sorry, the front part of the year. And as Fusen said, for now, this is what we see, we see 20% to 25%. But in response to an earlier question, I mean, as we go ahead -- further into our fiscal year, we will get better visibility in the second half. And at that time, we will revise guidance if we believe that's necessary.

克里什，讓我來回答這個問題。我不認為我們說過 12 月季度將是 21 財年最高的季度。我們確實說過季節性已經轉向前端——抱歉，是今年的前端。正如 Fusen 所說，目前，這就是我們所看到的，我們看到 20% 到 25%。但在回答先前的問題時，我的意思是，隨著我們進一步進入本財年，我們將在下半年獲得更好的能見度。屆時，如果我們認為有必要，我們將修改指導意見。

And again, your second question is, the ramp is not because PIXALUX is front loaded. I think the ramp is, as Fusen already indicated, across the board, both in advanced display as well as traditional LED as well as general semi, driven by, again, 5G and IoT, and we're seeing a little bit of recovery in automotive and memory as well.

再說一次，你的第二個問題是，斜坡不是因為 PIXALUX 是前端加載的。我認為，正如 Fusen 已經指出的那樣，在 5G 和物聯網的推動下，先進顯示、傳統 LED 和通用半成品的全面增長，我們看到了一些復甦汽車和記憶體也是如此。

Got it. Lester but we since -- yes, go ahead.

知道了。萊斯特，但我們從——是的，繼續。

If you remember, our trough actually was Q1 of '19, right? So it's almost 2 years. And since we reached trough, every quarter, from that point, either we guide up or we guide trough. So until this moment, we even changed the seasonality to guide up in the next quarter, Q1 '21, right?

如果你還記得的話，我們的低潮其實是 19 年的第一季度，對吧？所以已經快2年了。自從我們到達低谷以來，每個季度，從那時起，我們要么引導上漲，要么引導低谷。所以直到這一刻，我們甚至改變了季節性，以指導下一季度，即 21 年第一季度，對吧？

So we didn't see -- we didn't say it's going to be a highest one. But at a certain point, right, this will not be every quarter for many, many years, right? So that's what we are planning because of the business coming back is so strong, we just cannot plan every quarter going up. That's why we have our current business is -- at 20% to 25% growth.

所以我們沒有看到——我們並沒有說這將是最高的。但在某個時候，對吧，這不會是很多很多年的每個季度，對嗎？這就是我們的計劃，因為業務的復甦是如此強勁，我們無法計劃每季都會成長。這就是為什麼我們目前的業務成長 20% 到 25%。

But situation can be stronger than that. And we already mentioned, next quarter, we will take a look. We will have a better outlook for second half of '21, and we probably will provide update at that time.

但情況可能比這更嚴重。我們已經提到，下個季度，我們會看看。我們將對 21 年下半年有更好的展望，屆時我們可能會提供更新。

Got it. Got it. That's very helpful. And I do remember you guys definitely called the bottom beginning of last year. A couple of other questions. One -- second one is, Lester, it does look like in the December quarter, there's going to be more mini -- PIXALUX shipments relative to the September quarter. But I understand you gave some reasons why the margins might still be like around -- gross margin around 45%.

知道了。知道了。這非常有幫助。我確實記得你們肯定稱去年年初為谷底。還有其他幾個問題。第二個是，Lester，看起來在 12 月的季度，相對於 9 月的季度，迷你 PIXALUX 的出貨量將會更多。但據我了解，您給了一些原因，說明為什麼利潤率可能仍約為 45% 左右。

I am just trying to figure out, is there a drop-through happening? Because my understanding was that PIXALUX is super high margins for you and there should be a pretty nice drop-through all the way to the bottom line.

我只是想弄清楚，是否發生了下降？因為我的理解是 PIXALUX 對你來說利潤率超高，而且應該有一個相當不錯的直通到底線。

Yes. There's drop-through, Krish, but, as you know, I mean, the drop-through is at $175 million. We get very good operation flow through. And if you look at what we are guiding in terms of non-GAAP EPS, I mean, it's growing by 60%, meanwhile revenue is going to go up by 35%. So that does show that the operating leverage is happening.

是的。克里什，有直通費用，但是，如你所知，我的意思是，直通費用為 1.75 億美元。我們獲得了非常好的營運流程。如果你看一下我們對非 GAAP 每股盈餘的指導，我的意思是，它成長了 60%，同時營收將成長 35%。所以這確實表明營運槓桿正在發生。

And as far as why the gross margin went down, I think, as I indicated, it's as -- for us, it's product mix. So there's more traditional LED ball bonders as well as ball bonders in general and also capital equipment is a larger piece of the quarter rather than APS and our APS business has high margins, plus, I did call some unique items like the freight charges because of the great demand by customers, we're doing more things by air freight and sea freight and that increases our cost as well as we are introducing a new product in our wedge bonder business unit. And as part of the market penetration strategy, the margins are down a little bit.

至於毛利率下降的原因，我認為，正如我所指出的，對我們來說，這是產品組合的問題。因此，有更多的傳統LED 球焊機以及一般球焊機，而且資本設備在本季度所佔的份額比APS 更大，而且我們的APS 業務利潤率很高，另外，我確實稱了一些獨特的項目，例如運費，因為由於客戶的巨大需求，我們透過空運和海運做更多的事情，這增加了我們的成本，並且我們正在楔形黏合機業務部門推出新產品。作為市場滲透策略的一部分，利潤率略有下降。

Yes. So this is a onetime. It will not be forever.

是的。所以這是一次性的。這不會是永遠的。

Got it. Got it. That's very helpful. Just -- and final question for Fusen. Once there are more mini-LED products in the marketplace, should we assume PIXALUX will have your typical consumer seasonality embedded in it? Or do you think because it's still in a growth mode, we should not think a whole lot about seasonality on a quarterly basis.

知道了。知道了。這非常有幫助。最後一個問題是問福森的。一旦市面上出現更多 miniLED 產品，我們是否應該假設 PIXALUX 會嵌入您典型的消費者季節性特徵？或者您是否認為因為它仍處於成長模式，我們不應該在季度基礎上過多考慮季節性因素。

So actually, Krish, we did not say the PIXALUX will have seasonality. I think what I just mentioned to you Craig's question is $40 million actually for last year, we are very happy to report we achieved the goal. And for '21, we actually see quite even achievement, that's our business plan. Every quarter, it's between $15 million to $20 million. But we'd like to state, hopefully, we will be in the high side, so given the high side, we'll be $80 million business.

所以實際上，Krish，我們並沒有說 PIXALUX 會有季節性。我想我剛才向您提到的克雷格的問題實際上是去年的 4000 萬美元，我們很高興地報告我們實現了這一目標。對於 21 年，我們實際上看到了相當均衡的成就，這就是我們的商業計劃。每季的費用在 1500 萬美元到 2000 萬美元之間。但我們想說，希望我們將處於高位，因此考慮到高位，我們的業務將達到 8000 萬美元。

So we didn't see seasonality for PIXALUX. But at the certain point, I think this is the initial product and the customer base is not many. So at a certain point you will see some spotty business quarter-by-quarter. And hopefully, by introducing more products maybe a year from now and after penetration, we will see more repeatable and a more flexible business in our sense.

所以我們沒有看到 PIXALUX 的季節性。但在某種程度上，我認為這是最初的產品，客戶群並不多。因此，在某個時刻，你會看到一些季度性的業務不穩定。希望透過在一年後和滲透後推出更多產品，我們將看到我們意義上的更具可重複性和更靈活的業務。

Our next question today is coming from David Duley from Steelhead Securities.

今天我們的下一個問題來自 Steelhead 證券公司的 David Duley。

I guess the first question I have is about your core wire bonder business. The large OSAT in Taiwan was talking about a huge difference between supply and demand, somewhere between 30% and 40% of not needing more capacity. And also talked about how the wire bonders now are, I guess, I want to say are slowing down a bit because they're having to do more stacking and having to connect more wires per device. I'm just wondering what sort of intensity increases you're seeing as you move into calendar 2021 on the wire bonder front.

我想我的第一個問題是關於你們的核心焊接機業務。台灣大型封測廠正在談論供需之間的巨大差異，大約在 30% 到 40% 之間，不需要更多產能。也談到了焊接線機現在的情況，我想，我想說的是，速度有點慢，因為他們必須進行更多的堆疊，並且必須為每個設備連接更多的電線。我只是想知道，當您進入 2021 年時，焊線機前緣的強度會增加多少。

Are these stacked packages and more wires like 15% or 20% more wire bonder-intensive than previous packages? Or could you comment on that? And then also just comment on what the utilization rates are for your equipment.

這些堆疊封裝和更多電線是否比以前的封裝增加了 15% 或 20% 的焊線密集度？或者你能對此發表評論嗎？然後也只需評論您的設備的使用率是多少。

Okay. So I will answer the first part. And then Lester is the expert of utilization rates, so he will answer the second part.

好的。所以我會回答第一部分。然後萊斯特是利用率的專家，所​​以他會回答第二部分。

So Dave, I'd like to say this, many people comment about the ball bonder business and also technology. And I think we already proved it wrong and it will continue to be wrong. We believe the ball bonder is a very important part of our packaging solution. And so far, I think that yearly production, our semiconductor devices before the packaging, it's about 1 trillion of devices taken for to be packaged to be interconnected. 70% of the products actually use our ball bonder technology.

所以戴夫，我想說的是，很多人都對球焊機業務和技術發表評論。我認為我們已經證明它是錯誤的，而且它將繼續是錯誤的。我們相信球焊機是我們包裝解決方案中非常重要的一部分。到目前為止，我認為我們在封裝之前的半導體元件的年產量大約有 1 兆個裝置需要經過封裝才能互連。 70% 的產品實際上使用了我們的球​​焊機技術。

And when we come to the 5G lot 23:48, and we are achieving a more dedicated, more complex requirement for the ball bonder because the 5G is not only smartphone only, and not only a station, actually it's a whole infrastructure and it brings actually a lot of other devices. And they really need to have a very complex wire bonder process to put a multi-die together in SiP and also multi-die module. And because of this requirement, because of this increasing capacity of this complex die, that would drive -- our ball bonder will continue to grow, right? So I don't know if I answered your question a lot.

當我們來到5G 地段23:48 時，我們正在實現對焊球機更專用、更複雜的要求，因為5G 不僅僅是智慧型手機，也不僅僅是一個站，實際上它是一個完整的基礎設施，它帶來了實際上還有很多其他設備。他們確實需要一個非常複雜的引線鍵合工藝，將多晶片整合到 SiP 中以及多晶片模組中。由於這項要求，由於這種複雜晶片的容量不斷增加，這將推動我們的球焊機繼續成長，對嗎？所以我不知道我是否回答了你的問題很多。

But let me give you color. So we believe part of the advanced ball bonder is a very, very special technology. You can do 3D packaging, for example, like stacking NAND. So actually, if I could -- every company has a different definition of advanced packaging. So I think K&S advanced packaging should be defined as following, right? We mentioned our dedicated advanced packaging, flip chip, Katalyst, TCB, APAMA, stud bumping is AT premier. So this part actually represents in our September quarter 9% of our total capital equipment sales, right?

但讓我給你顏色。所以我們相信先進的球焊機的一部分是一項非常非常特殊的技術。例如，您可以進行 3D 封裝，例如堆疊 NAND。事實上，如果可以的話，每家公司對先進封裝都有不同的定義。所以我認為K&S先進封裝應該定義如下，對嗎？我們提到了我們專用的先進封裝、倒裝晶片、Katalyst、TCB、APAMA、螺柱凸塊是 AT 的首選。因此，這部分實際上占我們 9 月季度資本設備銷售額的 9%，對吧？

I do believe advanced packaging because of a special requirement because of very, very complex looping capability, you can connect a 2D and 3D die to die and within a die. I think this capability -- we know that this multi-die, I think, packaging would not be possible, right? So we have 2D and 3D multi-die packaging. I think by using an advanced bundle, that should be catered as advanced packaging.

我確實相信先進封裝，因為由於非常非常複雜的循環功能而有特殊要求，您可以將 2D 和 3D 晶片連接到晶片以及晶片內。我認為這種能力——我們知道這種多晶片封裝是不可能的，對吧？所以我們有 2D 和 3D 多晶片封裝。我認為透過使用高級捆綁包，應該將其作為高級包裝來滿足。

So for 2D SiP multi-die package is about 8%, 3D stacked-die memory is about 5% of our September capital equivalent sales for September, right? And right now, I think our AP should also include advanced LED assembly, and we love our system. I think we will not be able to achieve a very, very high final placement. So advanced LED assembly is about 10% of our September quarter sales. So all this adding together, we believe our products, 32% of our product is supporting advanced packaging.

因此，2D SiP 多晶片封裝約佔 9 月資本等值銷售額的 8%，3D 堆疊晶片記憶體約佔 9 月資本等值銷售額的 5%，對吧？現在，我認為我們的 AP 還應該包括先進的 LED 組件，我們喜歡我們的系統。我認為我們將無法取得非常非常高的最終排名。因此，先進的 LED 組裝約占我們 9 月季度銷售額的 10%。因此，所有這些加在一起，我們相信我們的產品，我們 32% 的產品支援先進封裝。

So I don't know if I answered your question.

所以我不知道我是否回答了你的問題。

We -- I guess my question was more about just wire bonder intensity. It seems one of your large customers in Taiwan was talking about on their conference call that the wire bonders are literally slowing down because they're having to connect more leads per device and having to do more loops. So you need more wire bonders per device or -- so the intensity of the wire bonding is increasing. So I'm just wondering if you have some sort of metric, is it increasing by 25%, 20%, 10%?

我們——我想我的問題更多的是關於焊線機的強度。您在台灣的一位大客戶似乎在電話會議上談到，焊接線機的速度實際上正在減慢，因為他們必須在每個設備上連接更多的引線，並且必須進行更多的循環。因此，每個設備都需要更多的引線鍵合機，或 - 因此引線鍵合的強度正在增加。所以我只是想知道你是否有某種指標，它是否增加了 25%、20%、10%？

Well, I can only tell you, we only see the beginning of a huge demand at this moment. And -- but we believe because 5G will bring in very, very complex multi-die packaging that require wire bonder. And right now, we do have capacity constraint. And we will give you a more precise number maybe in the next couple of -- in the next call, we will give you the demand percentage increase for the wire bonder.

嗯，我只能告訴你，我們現在才看到巨大需求的開始。而且 - 但我們相信，因為 5G 將帶來非常非常複雜的多晶片封裝，需要焊接線機。目前，我們確實存在產能限制。我們可能會在接下來的幾次通話中為您提供更準確的數字 - 在下一次通話中，我們將為您提供焊線機的需求增長百分比。

So Dave, let me answer the utilization question, right? So for the September quarter, utilization was above 80%, Taiwan and China significantly above 80%. China is almost at full capacity, over 90%. Southeast Asia also has improved significantly, and they're now up to around 75% or so. Obviously, Europe and North America have improved, but they're actually lagging the other markets.

那麼戴夫，讓我回答利用率問題，對嗎？因此，9 月季度的使用率高於 80%，台灣和中國大陸明顯高於 80%。中國幾乎滿負荷運轉，超過90%。東南亞也有明顯改善，目前已達75%左右。顯然，歐洲和北美已經有所改善，但實際上落後於其他市場。

But Dave, I think I will give same simple answer. This upside, we feel like is sustainable and the ball bonder will also be part of that. So along with the new product introduction we talked about, PIXALUX in the future will be a new product portfolio in display and advanced packaging, as we mentioned it, and the ball bonder, I think will also participate in a big ramp as in for this current upcycle.

但是戴夫，我想我會給出同樣簡單的答案。我們認為這種優勢是可持續的，而球焊機也將成為其中的一部分。因此，隨著我們談到的新產品推出，PIXALUX 未來將成為顯示和先進封裝方面的新產品組合，正如我們所提到的，我認為球焊機也將參與到一個大的斜坡中當前的升級循環。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is coming from Christian Schwab from Craig-Hallum Capital Group.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Craig-Hallum Capital Group 的 Christian Schwab。

Congrats on a nice recovery starting here. So can you -- a follow-up to the previous question maybe saying it slightly different. Listen, when you look at your general semiconductor business and you see core silicon content in next-generation 5G applications and we saw in 4G as well as the continued movement to electrical vehicles and continued electrification of the automobile to silicon content going forward, in addition potential increased capital needs due to the complexity of some of these chips.

恭喜您從這裡開始康復良好。那你可以嗎——上一個問題的後續可能會說得略有不同。聽著，當您查看一般半導體業務時，您會看到下一代5G 應用中的核心矽內容，我們在4G 中看到了這一點，此外，電動車的持續發展和汽車的持續電氣化也將推動矽內容的發展。

Can you give us an idea if the general semiconductor unit growth is just to keep the math easy, say, 10% a year for the next few years. Would you expect to outgrow unit growth? And if you do over time, what percentage would you expect?

您能否告訴我們，半導體單位的整體成長是否只是為了讓數學變得簡單，例如未來幾年每年成長 10%。您預計成長會超過單位成長嗎？如果你隨著時間的推移這樣做，你期望的百分比是多少？

Well, Christian, I'm sorry, I think your voice did not come very clear to us. But I hear your question asking about the unit growth rate, right? So at this moment, I think the industry actually has a different forecast. And now it's a little bit more positive.

好吧，克里斯蒂安，對不起，我想我們聽不清楚你的聲音。但我聽到你的問題是關於單位成長率，對吧？所以此時此刻，我認為業界其實有不同的預測。現在情況變得更加積極了。

So for our business plan, I think we planned '21 and '22 is going to be around 6% to 8%. And if the market, I think, dynamics change, we are going to update you maybe in 1 or 2 quarters. But at this moment, I think that's what we are planning. We don't see -- we don't want to forecast very, very long, right? Next 2 years, I said, we are seeing about 6% to 8%. That's what's our growth plan. It can be faster, but we are going to do revise it if we see the change.

因此，對於我們的業務計劃，我認為我們計劃 21 和 22 年的成長率將約為 6% 至 8%。我認為，如果市場動態發生變化，我們可能會在一兩個季度內向您通報最新情況。但目前，我認為這就是我們正在計劃的。我們沒有看到──我們不想預測很長很長的時間，對嗎？我說，未來 2 年，我們預計這一比例約為 6% 至 8%。這就是我們的成長計劃。它可以更快，但如果我們看到變化，我們將對其進行修改。

Our next question today is coming from Craig Ellis from B. Riley.

今天我們的下一個問題來自 B. Riley 的 Craig Ellis。

I'll just start with when that goes back to the utilization color that you provided, Lester. Thanks for the granularity there. But would it be fair to say that the strength in the business that you're seeing in the fiscal first quarter is really led by China and Southeast Asia. And if that's so, given the utilization levels in Europe and North America, would it be fair to think that as we look ahead to fiscal 2Q, that more of the incremental strength would be coming from those geographies? Or does it impact the order dynamic different than what we see if we just did a 1:1 correlation with utilization levels?

我將從何時回到您提供的使用顏色開始，萊斯特。感謝那裡的粒度。但可以公平地說，您在第一財季看到的業務實力實際上是由中國和東南亞主導的。如果是這樣，考慮到歐洲和北美的利用率水平，當我們展望第二財季時，是否可以公平地認為，更多的增量力量將來自這些地區？或者它對訂單動態的影響是否與我們僅與利用率水準進行 1:1 相關時所看到的不同？

I would say, Craig, that for Q1 actually is China and Taiwan more than Southeast Asia. Southeast Asia utilization is improving, but not to the levels where Taiwan and China is. I think going forward, I think the continued growth will also come from Taiwan. Taiwan is lagging a little bit behind the China in terms of utilization, but they're already very, very high.

克雷格，我想說，第一季實際上中國和台灣比東南亞更多。東南亞的利用率正在提高，但尚未達到台灣和中國大陸的水平。我認為展望未來，持續的成長也將來自台灣。台灣在使用率方面落後於中國大陸，但已經非常非常高了。

So we see continued strength from Taiwan and in Southeast Asia over the next 2 quarters or so. And then as North America and Europe, they will catch up, hopefully, assuming they solve the COVID issue. So I would say it's probably in that sequence, but we see continued strength in the next 2, 3 quarters coming from the Taiwan and Southeast Asia.

因此，我們看到台灣和東南亞在未來兩季左右的時間將繼續保持強勢。然後，如果北美和歐洲解決了新冠病毒問題，他們有望迎頭趕上。所以我想說，可能是按照這個順序，但我們看到台灣和東南亞在接下來的 2、3 個季度將繼續保持強勁勢頭。

Great. And then the next 1 is really just a housekeeping question on the color you've provided around fiscal 1Q gross margin. So clearly, there's increased shipping costs because of order intensity with customers. And then you talked about the new wedge product impacting gross margin. Can you quantify what the combined impact of those 2 are for us?

偉大的。接下來的 1 實際上只是一個關於您提供的第一個財季毛利率顏色的內務問題。很明顯，由於客戶的訂單強度，運輸成本增加了。然後您談到了新的楔形產品對毛利率的影響。您能量化這兩者對我們的綜合影響嗎？

I would say probably around maybe 150 basis points or so. 100 basis points, 150 basis points.

我想說大概是 150 個基點左右。 100個基點，150個基點。

Great. Helpful. Yes. And then tax rate for the quarter and year, should that be 18%?

偉大的。有幫助。是的。那麼季度和年度的稅率應該是18%嗎？

Yes. I think we're still forecasting 18%.

是的。我認為我們仍然預測 18%。

Okay. And then lastly, long term question, Fusen. So it's clear that you're gaining some visibility into new product ramps on a multiyear basis, very encouraging to see that. And we clearly have a rebound in the general semi business that, as you've articulated multiple times, is led by numerous secular dynamics plus some cyclical things like OSAT recovery and a smartphone recovery.

好的。最後是長期問題，Fusen。因此，很明顯，您在多年的基礎上對新產品的成長有了一定的了解，看到這一點非常令人鼓舞。正如您多次闡述的那樣，我們顯然在一般半成品業務方面出現了反彈，這是由眾多長期動態以及 OSAT 復甦和智慧型手機復甦等一些週期性因素帶動的。

The question is this, as you look at how the business is unfolding on a multiyear basis, are you starting to gain visibility into the low end of the target model, which was $1.15 billion and $4 in earnings per share? Or do you not yet have visibility to revenues of that level as you look out to '22 and '23?

問題是，當您審視多年以來業務的發展時，您是否開始了解目標模型的低端，即 11.5 億美元和每股收益 4 美元？或者，當您展望「22」和「23」時，您還沒有看到該水準的收入嗎？

Okay. So Craig, just look at this. In my script, I mentioned the negative unit growth actually is very uncommon, right, especially happened in this industry. '19 and '20, this is really the uncommon, right? So in a conservative way, let me answer the question like this. If we take 3 years, probably '18 is a very strong year, right? Our revenue is close to $900 million. And then we have '19, like $540 million and we have -- this year just finished '20 is about $630 million or so, right? So if you add these 3 together, we have 1 very strong year and 2 really uncommon years, right?

好的。所以克雷格，看看這個。在我的劇本中，我提到單位負成長實際上是非常罕見的，對吧，尤其是在這個行業中。 '19和'20，這確實不常見，對吧？那麼，讓我以保守的方式來回答這個問題。如果我們花3年時間，18年可能是非常強勁的一年，對吧？我們的收入接近 9 億美元。然後我們有“19”，大約 5.4 億美元，我們今年剛結束的“20”大約有 6.3 億美元左右，對吧？因此，如果將這 3 年加在一起，我們就會有 1 個非常強勁的年份和 2 個非常不尋常的年份，對吧？

So if you divide by 3, roughly it's about $700 million. So this, I believe can represent the very, very solid APS long way of our core business, right? Because 1 strong year and very, very 2 low years. And I mentioned already, this is very uncommon. How can we -- in this world, how can we know we have a negative unit growth. So what I tell you is I -- we feel like $700 million run rate should be sustainable as a base for the core business.

因此，如果除以 3，大約約為 7 億美元。所以我相信這可以代表我們核心業務非常非常紮實的APS長路，對吧？因為有 1 個強勁的年份和非常非常低的 2 個年份。我已經提到過，這種情況非常罕見。在這個世界上，我們如何知道我們的單位數量有負成長。所以我告訴你的是——我們認為 7 億美元的運作率應該是可持續的，作為核心業務的基礎。

So -- but in 2 years, maybe we don't talk about 1 year, in 2 years, 2022 we mentioned already, I think, display. We already guided '21, maybe we will reach $60 million to $80 million, right? So on the high end, $80 million is already very close to $100 million. So we believe 2022 display, we just set a $100 million goal. I think we can feel it, we can touch it. I think we feel good about the goal.

所以，但在 2 年內，也許我們不會談論 1 年，2 年內，2022 年，我認為我們已經提到了顯示。我們已經指導了 21 年，也許我們會達到 6000 萬到 8000 萬美元，對吧？因此，從高端來看，8000 萬美元已經非常接近 1 億美元了。所以我們相信2022年的展示，我們剛剛設定了1億美元的目標。我想我們可以感覺到它，我們可以觸摸它。我認為我們對這個目標感覺良好。

Advanced packaging, actually, we can hit now $100 million, right? We intend to have a few significant design wins in '21; and '22, I think, hopefully, our advanced packaging dedicated advance packaging will be $100 million.

先進封裝，實際上，我們現在可以達到1億美元，對吧？我們打算在 21 年取得一些重大的設計勝利； '22，我認為，希望我們的先進封裝專用先進封裝將達到 1 億美元。

I think APS, we can also grow another $50 million $80 million. So adding all this together, I think $1 billion looks like is achievable from our view at this moment, right?

我認為 APS，我們還可以再成長 5,000 萬美元、8,000 萬美元。因此，將所有這些加在一起，我認為目前我們認為 10 億美元是可以實現的，對吧？

So -- but if we are very lucky with the current business really toward it. Right now, we almost reached $250 million run rate. I think if the business go crazy, I think we probably will be also higher than $700 million or even higher than $800 million or can be a little bit even higher, right?

所以——但如果我們非常幸運，目前的業務確實朝著這個方向發展。現在，我們的運行率幾乎達到了 2.5 億美元。我認為如果業務變得瘋狂，我認為我們可能也會高於 7 億美元，甚至高於 8 億美元，或者可能更高一點，對嗎？

But we really don't want to see our core business overrun, but we believe business should be sustainable above $700 million. So overall, we feel good.

但我們確實不希望看到我們的核心業務超支，但我們相信業務應該可持續超過 7 億美元。所以總的來說，我們感覺很好。

The general semi, I think, is recovering. And we also believe our product road map is strong and that we are making a traction. And hopefully, by 2022, and not 2021, 2021 that could be luck, but 2022, hopefully, we have a good possibility to achieve $1 billion.

我認為一般半成品正在復甦。我們也相信我們的產品路線圖很強大，我們正在取得進展。希望到 2022 年，而不是 2021 年，2021 年可能會很幸運，但希望到 2022 年，我們很有可能實現 10 億美元的目標。

We reached end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to management for any further or closing comments.

我們的問答環節結束了。我想將發言權交還給管理階層，以徵求進一步的意見或結束意見。

Thanks, Kevin. Thank you all for the time today. We'll be presenting at Needham, Sidoti, D.A. Davidson conferences and also the CEO Summit over the coming months. As always, please feel free to follow-up directly with any additional questions. Have a great day, everyone.

謝謝，凱文。謝謝大家今天抽出時間。我們將在 Needham、Sidoti、D.A. 進行演講。戴維森會議以及未來幾個月的執行長高峰會。與往常一樣，如果有任何其他問題，請隨時直接跟進。祝大家有個美好的一天。

Kevin, this concludes our call. Thanks.

凱文，我們的通話到此結束。謝謝。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webinar. You may disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網路研討會到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，度過美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。