庫力索法 (KLIC) 2020 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Kulicke and Soffa Third Quarter Fiscal 2020 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Joe Elgindy, Senior Director, Investor Relations and Strategic Initiatives. Joe, please go ahead.

您好，歡迎您參加 Kulicke and Soffa 2020 財年第三季財務業績電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興將電話轉給投資者關係和策略計畫高級總監喬·埃爾金迪 (Joe Elgindy)。喬，請繼續。

Thank you. Welcome, everyone, to Kulicke and Soffa's Third Quarter Fiscal 2020 Conference Call. Joining us on the call today are Fusen Chen, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Lester Wong, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝。歡迎大家參加 Kulicke 和 Soffa 2020 財年第三季電話會議。今天參加電話會議的有總裁兼執行長陳福森和財務長 Lester Wong。

For those of you who have not received a copy of today's results, the release as well as the latest investor presentation are both available in the Investor Relations section of our website at investor.kns.com.

對於尚未收到今天業績報告的人來說，該報告以及最新的投資者介紹均可在我們網站 investor.kns.com 的投資者關係部分找到。

In addition to historical statements, today's remarks will contain statements relating to future events and our future results. These statements are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Our actual results and financial condition may differ materially from what is indicated in those forward-looking statements. For a complete discussion of the risks associated with Kulicke and Soffa that could affect our future results and financial condition, please refer to our recent SEC filings, specifically the 10-K for the year ended September 28, 2019, and the 10-Q for the period ending March 28, 2020.

除了歷史陳述之外，今天的評論還將包含與未來事件和我們未來結果有關的陳述。這些聲明是 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案所定義的前瞻性聲明。我們的實際結果和財務狀況可能與這些前瞻性陳述中所示的存在重大差異。有關可能影響我們未來業績和財務狀況的 Kulicke 和 Soffa 相關風險的完整討論，請參閱我們最近向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的文件，特別是截至 2019 年 9 月 28 日的年度 10-K 報表和截至 2020 年 3 月 28 日的 10-Q 報表。

With that said, I would now like to turn the call over to Fusen Chen for the business overview. Please go ahead, Fusen.

話雖如此，我現在想將電話轉給陳福森，請他概述一下業務狀況。請繼續，Fusen。

Thank you, Joe. Considering the increasing dynamic environment we are operating in, we wanted to start this call by highlighting 3 specific points that may help to clarify our position and strategy.

謝謝你，喬。考慮到我們所處的日益動態的環境，我們希望在本次電話會議開始時強調三個具體要點，這可能有助於明確我們的立場和策略。

First, our manufacturing facility are operating at nearly full capacity, and the development progress are continuing to progress as planned. Last quarter, we specifically identified supply chain concerns associated with the regional shelter in place and the movement control orders, which constrained capacity at several suppliers. These supply chain issues were resolved by early May in that we no longer anticipate supply chain challenge in the near term.

首先，我們的製造工廠幾乎滿載運轉，開發進度正在按計劃繼續進行。上個季度，我們特別指出了與區域居家隔離和行動管制令相關的供應鏈問題，這些問題限制了幾家供應商的產能。這些供應鏈問題已於 5 月初解決，我們預計短期內不會再出現供應鏈挑戰。

Secondly, along U.S. reopening challenge made adversity effect near to [MCO] and the industry related dynamic. We continue to anticipate a robust recovery, and semiconductor unit growth is inevitable.

其次，美國重啟經濟的挑戰對[MCO]及相關產業動態造成不利影響。我們持續預期強勁復甦，半導體單位成長是不可避免的。

With over 80% of global semiconductor package utilizing wire bonding process, our core market is clearly correlated with the semiconductor unit growth. Total semiconductor unit production in calendar year 2018 was estimated to be about [5%] higher than unit expectations in calendar year 2020. This decrease in production is unique historically and has impacted demand for our core products. Currently, recent semiconductor forecast from Gartner support our view that semiconductor unit count will grow by 10% to 11% annually for both calendar year 2021 and also 2022. Again, this anticipated return to unit growth is expected to directly and positively trigger capacity investments for our core products.

全球超過 80% 的半導體封裝採用引線鍵合工藝，我們的核心市場與半導體單位成長明顯相關。預計 2018 日曆年的半導體總產量將比 2020 日曆年的產量預期高出約 [5%]。此次產量下降在歷史上是獨一無二的，並影響了我們核心產品的需求。目前，Gartner 最新的半導體預測支持了我們的觀點，即 2021 年和 2022 年半導體單位數量每年將增加 10% 至 11%。再次，預計單位成長的恢復將直接積極觸發我們核心產品的產能投資。

Last, our visibility and longer-term road map within the fast-growing next-generation LED market has improved. We are technically executing on our production ramp in the near term and are also very focused on next-generation tool to increase our competitiveness and drive more share gains in its rapidly developing new market opportunity.

最後，我們在快速成長的下一代 LED 市場中的知名度和長期路線圖已經得到改善。我們正在技術上執行近期的生產提升，同時也非常注重下一代工具，以提高我們的競爭力並在快速發展的新市場機會中獲得更多份額。

I will provide additional detail on our broadly advanced innovative business up to the financial review. In the June quarter, revenue come in at $150.5 million. We generated $69.4 million of gross profit, $11.2 million of net income and $0.18 of earning per share. Capital equipment revenue decreased by 1.6%, while aftermarket product and service revenue increased by 4% sequentially into the June quarter. Within capital equipment, we experienced softer sequential demand in the general semiconductor, memory and automotive end markets. This softness was largely offset by improved sequential demand for our systems, supporting technology transition within the advanced packaging and advanced LED market.

我將在財務審查之前提供有關我們廣泛推進的創新業務的更多詳細資訊。6 月當季營收達 1.505 億美元。我們創造了 6,940 萬美元的毛利、1,120 萬美元的淨收入和 0.18 美元的每股盈餘。資本設備收入下降了 1.6%，而售後產品和服務收入在六月季度環比增長了 4%。在資本設備方面，我們經歷了通用半導體、記憶體和汽車終端市場的環比需求疲軟。這種疲軟在很大程度上被我們系統的連續需求的改善所抵消，支持了先進封裝和先進 LED 市場內的技術轉型。

While we believe we are approaching an inevitable unit-driven market recovery, I want to remind investor that our entire organization remain extremely committed to fundamentally expand our served market and the market share through ongoing development efforts. Organizational improvements over the past few years have allowed us to introduce several new and competitive systems, which are providing new assets to advanced packaging, automotive and the display opportunities.

雖然我們相信我們正在接近不可避免的單位驅動的市場復甦，但我想提醒投資者，我們整個組織仍然非常致力於透過持續的發展努力從根本上擴大我們所服務的市場和市場份額。過去幾年的組織改進使我們能夠推出幾個新的、具有競爭力的系統，這些系統為先進封裝、汽車和顯示器領域提供了新的資產。

Specifically within advanced packaging, we recognized revenue on our first Katalyst high-accuracy flip-chip systems and also recognize revenue with the new thermal thermocompression customers during the June quarter.

具體來說，在先進封裝領域，我們在 6 月季度確認了首批 Katalyst 高精度倒裝晶片系統的收入，並且還確認了新熱壓客戶的收入。

Within the LED space, we are especially excited for the technology transition within the display market. During the June quarter, we recognized revenue on 25 Pixalux system, our largest quarterly shipment of our advanced LED tool. Some level of cyclicality will always persist in our business, although we expect ongoing product adoption and share gain within this new high-potential market to provide added diversification and also to create a meaningful and sustainable value for shareholders over the coming years.

在 LED 領域，我們對顯示器市場的技術轉型感到特別興奮。在六月季度，我們確認了 25 台 Pixalux 系統的收入，這是我們先進 LED 工具的最大季度出貨量。儘管我們預計，在這個新的高潛力市場中，產品的持續採用和份額的成長將提供額外的多樣化，並在未來幾年為股東創造有意義和可持續的價值，但我們的業務將始終存在一定程度的周期性。

I would now like to turn the call over to Lester Wong, who will cover this quarter's financial overview in greater detail. Lester?

現在我想將電話轉給 Lester Wong，他將更詳細地介紹本季的財務概況。萊斯特？

Thank you, Fusen. My remarks today will refer to GAAP results unless noted. Net revenue for the quarter was $150.5 million. Gross margins of 46% generated $69.4 million of gross profit and net income of $11.2 million or $0.18 per diluted share. On a non-GAAP basis, we generated net income of $12.9 million or $0.21 per diluted share. Operating expenses for the quarter came in on the lower end of our long-term target range as expected. This was due to ongoing cost-control efforts, reduced travel and also some local government assistance. We continue to be very focused on cost control in the near term, and we also continue to be very focused on development. We are anticipating GAAP operating expenses to fall back into our target range within the September quarter. This target range consists of $53 million of fixed quarterly expenses, plus 5% to 7% of variable expenses tied to revenue.

謝謝你，Fusen。除非另有說明，我今天的發言將參考 GAAP 結果。本季淨收入為1.505億美元。46% 的毛利率產生了 6,940 萬美元的毛利和 1,120 萬美元的淨收入或每股 0.18 美元。根據非公認會計準則，我們的淨收入為 1,290 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.21 美元。正如預期的那樣，本季的營運費用處於我們長期目標範圍的低端。這是由於持續的成本控制努力、減少差旅以及一些地方政府的援助。我們近期將持續高度重視成本控制，同時也將持續高度重視發展。我們預計 GAAP 營運費用將在 9 月季度回落至我們的目標範圍內。該目標範圍包括 5,300 萬美元的固定季度支出，加上與收入掛鉤的 5% 至 7% 的變動支出。

Turning to the balance sheet. We ended the June quarter with a total net cash and investment position of $515.8 million or $8.21 per diluted share. During the June quarter, we also paid down our overdraft facility as we repatriated a portion of our cash balance to the United States. We intend to maintain some capacity within the overdraft facility, which provides additional flexibility on U.S.-related expenses, such as ongoing development, dividend and the share repurchase program.

轉向資產負債表。截至六月季度，我們的淨現金和投資總額為 5.158 億美元，即每股 8.21 美元。在六月季度，我們也償還了透支額度，因為我們將部分現金餘額匯回了美國。我們打算在透支額度內保留一定的容量，這為與美國相關的支出（例如持續發展、股息和股票回購計劃）提供了額外的靈活性。

Considering our long-term perspective on the repurchase program, we continue to view the recent market dynamics as an opportunity. Through the June quarter, we further increased our repurchase activity and deployed $22.4 million to repurchase just over 1 million shares. While we intend to create meaningful and sustainable value through fundamental market expansion and market share gains, we strongly believe our long-term share repurchase program provides an additional lever to further maximize and efficiently deliver this value to shareholders.

考慮到我們對回購計畫的長期看法，我們繼續將近期的市場動態視為一個機會。在整個六月季度，我們進一步增加了回購活動，並投入 2,240 萬美元回購了略多於 100 萬股的股票。雖然我們打算透過根本性的市場擴張和市場份額成長來創造有意義和可持續的價值，但我們堅信，我們的長期股票回購計劃提供了額外的槓桿，可以進一步最大化並有效地向股東提供這一價值。

In early July, we announced an increase and extension to our current repurchase program. This marked the third $100 million increase to the current program since its inception in August 2017. Including this recent authorization extension, at the end of the June quarter, we would have had approximately $151 million remaining under the share repurchase authorization.

7月初，我們宣布增加並延長目前的回購計畫。這是該計劃自 2017 年 8 月啟動以來第三次增加 1 億美元。包括最近的授權延期在內，截至 6 月季度末，我們的股票回購授權餘額約為 1.51 億美元。

On a book value per share basis, we closed the June quarter with $11.93, a slight sequential improvement. Working capital, defined as accounts receivable plus inventory, less accounts payable, increased slightly to $260 million. From a DSO perspective, our days sales outstanding decreased from 119 days to 117 days. Our day sales of inventory increased from 117 days to 127 days and days of accounts payable decreased from 56 days to 55 days.

以每股帳面價值計算，我們 6 月當季的每股盈餘為 11.93 美元，季比略有改善。營運資本（定義為應收帳款加上庫存減去應付帳款）略有增加，達到 2.6 億美元。從 DSO 角度來看，我們的應收帳款週轉天數從 119 天減少到 117 天。我們的庫存銷售天數從 117 天增加到 127 天，應付帳款天數從 56 天減少到 55 天。

This concludes the financial review portion of our call. I will now turn the discussion back over to Fusen for the September quarter business outlook. Fusen?

我們的電話會議的財務審查部分到此結束。現在我將把討論交還給 Fusen，討論 9 月季度的業務展望。福森？

Thanks, Lester. Despite the limited visibility and the challenging environment throughout the semiconductor capital equipment space, we were able to maintain our development road map, expand our repurchase program and most importantly, we have maintained or increased our outlook consistently for 5 sequential quarters.

謝謝，萊斯特。儘管整個半導體資本設備領域的可見性有限且環境充滿挑戰，但我們仍然能夠維持我們的發展路線圖，擴大我們的回購計劃，最重要的是，我們連續 5 個季度保持或提高了我們的前景。

Looking into September quarters, which over the past 5 years has shown an average 19% reduction from the June quarter. We are again increasing our outlook and anticipate September quarter's revenue to be $165 million, plus/minus $10 million. Our steady business and outlook improvement since March '19 is a reminder that our business is more diversified and now operate very differently than it has in the past.

縱觀九月季度，過去五年來，九月季度的銷售額平均比六月季度下降了 19%。我們再次上調了預期，預計 9 月季度的營收為 1.65 億美元，上下浮動 1,000 萬美元。自 2019 年 3 月以來，我們的業務穩步成長，前景不斷改善，這提醒我們，我們的業務更加多樣化，而且現在的運作方式與過去有很大不同。

While our end market has not improved in lockstep and occasionally offset each other, they have all collectively improved. Despite this greater improvement, we are still operating below what we view as a sustainable level of capital expenditure to support long-term semiconductor unit growth. This growth rate has averaged 6.5% over the long term, which is expected to support our core annual revenue of approximately $700 million. Again, average semiconductor unit growth from calendar year 2018 through calendar 2020 is expected to decline, which is historically abnormal. This unique environment has create clear demand challenge for our core products. With that said, we anticipate a return to more normal growth next year. As mentioned earlier, this expectation is shared with external marketing forecast which anticipate unit count growth to exceed 10% in each of the coming 2 calendar years.

雖然我們的終端市場並沒有同步改善，有時甚至相互抵消，但它們都得到了整體改善。儘管取得了較大的進步，但我們的營運水準仍低於我們認為支援長期半導體單位成長的永續資本支出水準。長期來看，這一成長率平均為6.5%，預計將支持我們約7億美元的核心年收入。再次，預計從 2018 年日曆年到 2020 日曆年的平均半導體單位成長率將下降，這在歷史上是不正常的。這種獨特的環境對我們的核心產品帶來了明顯的需求挑戰。話雖如此，我們預計明年將恢復更正常的成長。如前所述，這項預期與外部行銷預測一致，預計未來兩個日曆年內，單位數量成長率每年都將超過 10%。

While there are clear challenge associated with the U.S. reopening, and we are entering a seasonal period with historically limited visibility, a return to normal or above normal level of semiconductor unit growth will have a direct and meaningful impact to demand level for our core products. In parallel with this expected recovery, our new product deliver new capability and increased assets to fundamental technology transition within advanced packaging, automotive and display. These 3 specific markets are becoming increasingly dependent on technology transition, which we expect will continue to provide additional layer of diversification over the long term. Within each of these categories, we have competitive and proven products that are already in high-volume production and are very well positioned to support our underlying technology transitions.

儘管美國重新開放帶來了明顯的挑戰，而且我們正進入一個歷史上能見度有限的季節性時期，但半導體單位增長恢復到正常水平或高於正常水平將對我們核心產品的需求水平產生直接而有意義的影響。與預期的復甦同步，我們的新產品為先進封裝、汽車和顯示器領域的基礎技術轉型提供了新的能力和增強的資產。這三個特定市場越來越依賴技術轉型，我們預計這將在長期內繼續提供額外的多樣化層次。在每個類別中，我們都擁有具有競爭力且經過驗證的產品，這些產品已經投入大量生產，並且能夠很好地支持我們的基礎技術轉型。

Specifically, within advanced packaging, current opportunities are providing new and value additive techniques, which are offsetting the well-known challenge of technology [notion]. We continue to target several new customer engagement which are providing assets to high-performance logic application that were dominated by traditional free chip applications.

具體來說，在先進封裝領域，當前的機會是提供新的增值技術，這些技術正在抵消眾所周知的技術挑戰 [概念]。我們繼續瞄準幾個新的客戶，這些客戶為由傳統免費晶片應用主導的高效能邏輯應用提供資產。

Transition within the automotive market are increasing the requirement for high reliability and efficient power control, power storage and power distribution applications, especially for electric vehicles. Our current products, development road map and the customer relationship are very aligned with evolving opportunities within this dynamic automotive space.

汽車市場的轉型正在增加對高可靠性和高效電源控制、電力儲存和電力分配應用的需求，尤其是對於電動車。我們目前的產品、發展路線圖和客戶關係與這個充滿活力的汽車領域不斷發展的機會高度一致。

Finally, our recent entry into the display market has a significant potential to enable the adoption of high-volume, cost-effective mini and micro LED solutions. Over the course of June quarters, clarity on longer-term prospect and the road map supporting advanced micro and mini LED applications have improved.

最後，我們最近進入的顯示器市場具有巨大的潛力，可以實現大批量、高性價比的迷你和微型 LED 解決方案的採用。在六月季度中，長期前景和支援先進微型和迷你 LED 應用的路線圖更加清晰。

And I would like to provide a few additional details to why this new business is important for us. Under conservative expectations, we anticipate mini and micro LED diode shipment to be over 100 billion unit this year and will potentially reach over 1 trillion unit by 2024. Over the same period, we anticipate our mini and micro LED served available market to grow at a compound annual growth rate exceeding 40% through 2024. We continue to expect demand for our current system to grow more significantly through our next fiscal year.

我想提供一些額外的細節來解釋為什麼這項新業務對我們很重要。保守估計，我們預計今年Mini和Micro LED二極體的出貨量將超過1,000億個，到2024年有可能達到1兆個以上。在同一時期，我們預計到 2024 年，我們的迷你和微型 LED 服務市場將以超過 40% 的複合年增長率成長。我們繼續預計，在下一個財政年度，對我們現有系統的需求將會有更顯著的成長。

We have prioritized our focus on developing, qualifying and the ramping production of our mini and the micro LED systems, which target the final [Christmas] step within the fast-growing market.

我們優先關注迷你和微型 LED 系統的開發、鑑定和量產，目標是在快速成長的市場中邁出最後一步（聖誕節）。

We wanted to remind investors that there are also several additional advanced LED process steps which can leverage our platforms in unique high-throughput capabilities. These including processes such as sorting, mixing, repositioning and the recalibration. Over the near term, we have a clear road map to extend our reach into these other process steps and are also very focused on pursuing additional customer engagements. We are very focused on executing this strategy and look forward to sharing our progress and the additional opportunity over the coming quarters.

我們想提醒投資者，還有幾個額外的先進 LED 製程步驟可以利用我們平台獨特的高通量能力。這些包括分類、混合、重新定位和重新校準等過程。在短期內，我們有一個清晰的路線圖，將我們的業務範圍擴展到其他流程步驟，也非常注重尋求更多的客戶參與。我們非常專注於執行這項策略，並期待在未來幾季分享我們的進展和更多機會。

While the near-term environment is clearly uncertain, we are confident that unit count will eventually turn positive as it has in the past cycle. As this underlying core market condition improves, we intend to further diversify the business by enabling meaningful technology transitions within the advanced packaging, automotive and display markets.

儘管短期環境顯然不確定，但我們相信單位數量最終將像上一個週期一樣轉為正值。隨著這一核心市場條件的改善，我們打算透過在先進封裝、汽車和顯示器市場實現有意義的技術轉型來進一步實現業務多元化。

This conclude our prepared remarks. Operator, we will now be happy to take questions.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束。接線員，我們現在很樂意回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today is coming from Krish Sankar from Cowen & Company.

（操作員指示）我們今天的第一個問題來自 Cowen & Company 的 Krish Sankar。

I have a few of them. Fusen, one thing is, in terms of your guidance, when you look into the September quarter, which verticals are driving the strength? Is it primarily semis? Or are you seeing even strength in the memory, packaging, LED? Any color on that would be helpful.

我有幾個。富森，有一件事是，就您的指導而言，當您展望 9 月的季度時，哪些垂直行業正在推動其發展？主要是半成品嗎？或者您看到內存、封裝、LED 等方面的均勢增強？任何顏色都會有幫助。

For September quarters?

針對九月季度？

Yes.

是的。

So Krish, I think our current market view of bright spot and also have some feasibility issues. Let me give you a few bright spot. Number one is our mini and the micro LED business are in high-volume production. And we also see 5G is expanding and the memory is recovering. And also, I mentioned, in the past 2 years, '19 and '20, the semi unit count growth rate was actually negative. And we believe, and also many people believe, unit count growth will tend to be positive, not only positive, would be over 10% for the next 2 years. So that is really a bright spot, along with we still have some challenge associated with the COVID-19. But I think we just need to deal with that, right? Just like a U.S. reopening and the inventory level throughout supply chain. But compared to last quarter, we are much actually confident compared to a quarter ago. I wish I answered your question, Krish.

所以 Krish，我認為我們目前的市場觀點有亮點，但也存在一些可行性問題。讓我給你舉幾個亮點。首先，我們的迷你和微型 LED 業務已實現大量生產。我們也看到5G正在擴展，記憶體正在恢復。而且，我還提到，在過去兩年，即 2019 年和 2020 年，半成品單位數量的增長率實際上是負的。我們相信，而且許多人也相信，未來兩年單位數量成長將趨於正值，不僅是正值，而且將超過 10%。這確實是一個亮點，但我們仍然面臨與 COVID-19 相關的一些挑戰。但我認為我們只需要處理這個問題，對嗎？就像美國重新開放和整個供應鏈的庫存水準一樣。但與上一季相比，我們實際上比一個季度前更有信心。我希望我能回答你的問題，克里什。

Yes, absolutely. That does. Then as a follow-up, I had like a 2-part question on the Pixalux. Number one is, I was under the impression the Pixalux was a much higher-margin product. At what point will you start seeing that drop through? Because it looks like, compared to March and June numbers, you had incremental Pixalux sales, but the margin profile was pretty much similar. So at what point will the drop-through kick in as you ship the Pixalux? And also, is it being used -- I mean I was under the impression that Pixalux was used mainly for mini LED, not micro LED, because the pick-and-place sands are in that fast for micro LED. So I just wanted to get some clarification on that.

是的，絕對是。確實如此。然後作為後續問題，我對 Pixalux 有兩個問題。首先，我印像中 Pixalux 是一款利潤率較高的產品。什麼時候你會開始看到這種下降？因為看起來，與 3 月和 6 月的數字相比，Pixalux 的銷售額有所增加，但利潤率情況卻非常相似。那麼，當您運送 Pixalux 時，什麼時候會出現掉落現象？而且，它是否正在被使用——我的意思是，我印像中 Pixalux 主要用於迷你 LED，而不是微型 LED，因為微型 LED 的拾放速度很快。所以我只是想對此進行一些澄清。

Sure. We have Lester to answer your question.

當然。我們有 Lester 來回答您的問題。

So Krish, so let me answer the last question first. Yes, the Pixalux is for mini LED. As far as the margin is concerned, the margin is consistent what we've always said. It is one of our highest-margin products. The overall margin actually got pulled down a bit because there was significant amount of LED bundles in the quarter. So Pixalux actually pulled it back up as well as our other APMR. So that's why basically the gross margin was flat for the quarter.

那麼 Krish，讓我先回答最後一個問題。是的，Pixalux 適用於 mini LED。就利潤而言，利潤與我們一直說的一致。這是我們利潤最高的產品之一。由於本季有大量的 LED 捆綁產品，因此整體利潤率實際上有所下降。因此 Pixalux 實際上將它和我們的其他 APMR 一起拉了回來。這就是為什麼本季的毛利率基本上持平的原因。

So Krish, if you remember, I think, last quarter, Lester mentioned, we have a lot of LED bundle. And Pixalux was a low gross margin, low gross margin. And he actually guide would be slightly below 45% but with the mini and micro LED Pixalux, actually pull up about -- closer to 46%.

所以 Krish，如果你還記得的話，我想，上個季度，Lester 提到，我們有很多 LED 捆綁產品。Pixalux 的毛利率很低，很低。他實際上的指導價格會略低於 45%，但隨著迷你和微型 LED Pixalux 的推出，實際價格會上升到接近 46%。

Our next question comes from the line of Tom Diffely with D.A. Davidson.

我們的下一個問題來自 D.A. Davidson 的 Tom Diffely。

So I guess following up on your comments about a recovery in '21 and '22 to 10% growth plus in each year. I'm curious, on a near-term basis, based on what you're seeing from utilization rates of your tools in the industry, have we hit the bottom at this point? Or do you expect the bottom to come over the next couple quarters? Or what is the near-term outlook for just the core unit-driven business?

因此，我想根據您關於 21 年和 22 年復甦至每年 10% 以上成長率的評論。我很好奇，從短期來看，根據您所看到的產業工具利用率，我們現在是否已經觸底了？或者您預計未來幾季內將出現底部？或是核心單位驅動業務的近期前景如何？

Okay. So Tom, historically, you're talking about a quarter beyond September, that will be December quarter, right? So December quarter, historically, I think we -- when we went into Christmastime and the Chinese New Year, we have less visibility. And September -- I'm sorry, October -- December quarter was a low quarter for us. So actually, we are seeing 2 factors pulling each other. One is some bright spot, I mentioned. 5G actually expanding and the memory is recovering. And we also believe recovery is on the way. And we also have a negative factor. This reopening and the other country part of the second wave of infection, right? So -- but I think that we are quite hopeful. And maybe the recovery can be stronger after Chinese New Year. And maybe if you count the whole year, it's 10%. And we are in the fiscal year ended at -- in September, right? So probably, we will benefit half of this more than 10% of unit growth count, right? That's what we are seeing right now.

好的。所以湯姆，從歷史上看，你談論的是九月之後的季度，也就是十二月季度，對嗎？因此，從歷史上看，我認為，從 12 月季度來看，當我們進入聖誕節和農曆新年時，我們的可見度較低。九月——抱歉，應該是十月——十二月這個季度對我們來說是淡季。因此實際上，我們看到兩個因素相互影響。一是一些我提到的亮點。5G實際上正在擴展並且記憶體正在恢復。我們也相信復甦正在進行中。我們也有一個消極因素。這次重新開放和其他國家是第二波感染的一部分，對嗎？所以——但我認為我們非常有希望。或許春節過後經濟復甦會更強勁。如果以全年計算，這個比例可能是 10%。我們的財政年度是在九月結束的，對嗎？所以很可能，我們將從超過 10% 的單位增長數量中受益一半，對嗎？這就是我們現在所看到的。

Okay. So what are the actual utilization rates you see in the field right now?

好的。那麼您目前看到的實際使用率是多少？

I'll let Lester answer it.

我請萊斯特來回答。

Tom, so utilization rate mainly for bundle because that's what we track, right? It actually has remained quite strong in June even though it reduced slightly sequentially. We expect utilization rates to remain that way through the September quarter for most of the end markets. We think maybe memory and general semi is going to improve the most. Automotive, probably the least. And also within regionally, I think we think there will be more improvements in Southeast Asia, Taiwan and Korea through the [September] quarter.

湯姆，利用率主要針對捆綁包，因為這是我們追蹤的，對嗎？儘管環比略有下降，但六月實際上仍然保持強勁。我們預計大多數終端市場的利用率在九月季度仍將維持這種水準。我們認為記憶體和通用半導體可能會取得最大的進步。汽車，可能是最不重要的。從地區來看，我認為到 9 月季度東南亞、台灣和韓國的情況將會有更多改善。

Okay. And then, Fusen, when we look at the likely near-record levels of WFE spending this year, how much of that will ultimately translate into your business? And what is the time frame do you think before turning that capital equipment purchase into unit growth?

好的。那麼，Fusen，當我們看看今年 WFE 支出可能接近創紀錄的水平時，其中有多少最終會轉化為您的業務？您認為將資本設備購買轉化為單位成長需要多長時間？

I'm sorry. If I can ask you to repeat again?

對不起。我可以請你再說一次嗎？

Sure. Yes. When you look at the near-record level of WFE spending this year, I'm just curious how much of that spending because it's advanced packing or advanced nodes, how much of that translates into your business over time? And what is the lag between capital spending and then the unit growth that you would benefit from?

當然。是的。當您看到今年 WFE 支出接近歷史最高水平時，我只是好奇其中有多少支出是因為它是先進的包裝或先進的節點，其中有多少會隨著時間的推移轉化為您的業務？資本支出和單位成長之間的滯後是多少，您將從中受益？

Well, I think front-end capacity inventory will come back again, right? So probably 3 quarters, be higher. But for our back end, we also see our driving force. For example, the increase in transitive packaging not only can be done by more slow, right? This can also be done by advanced packaging. And by using adverse setting, you can increase package level overall transition packing [capacity]. So they are something correlated with the front end. But I think the end is also very unique. We have different type of driving force. So I think next year, overall, I think it will be also very positive for it again.

嗯，我認為前端產能庫存會再次回升，對嗎？因此可能 3 個季度會更高。但對於我們的後端，我們也看到了我們的驅動力。例如增加傳遞包裝不但可以完成得更慢，對吧？這也可以透過先進的封裝來實現。並且透過使用不利的設置，您可以增加包裝等級的整體過渡包裝[容量]。所以它們與前端相關。但我認為結局也很獨特。我們有不同類型的驅動力。所以我認為明年整體來說也會再次出現非常正面的情況。

Our next question today is coming from Carlin Lynch from B. Riley FBR.

我們今天的下一個問題來自 B. Riley FBR 的 Carlin Lynch。

This is Carlin on for Craig. 2 quick questions for me. One, you had mentioned -- or you detailed kind of previously how the traditional and kind of core semi business can do $700 million to $800 million in a normalized environment. As we look into '21 and onto '22, do you guys have a sense of when we can kind of get back to that level of run rate, given what we've seen this year with COVID and the 10% unit recovery next year? Is that something that might happen in calendar '21? Or is really a calendar '22 item?

這是卡林 (Carlin) 代替克雷格 (Craig)。我有兩個快速問題。首先，您曾經提到過——或者您之前詳細說明過，在正常環境下，傳統和核心半導體業務如何能夠實現 7 億到 8 億美元的收入。當我們展望 21 年和 22 年時，考慮到我們今年所看到的 COVID 和明年 10% 的單位復甦，你們是否知道我們何時可以恢復到那種運行率水平？這可能在 21 年發生嗎？還是真的是 22 年曆上的一項？

Well, I think, as Fusen said earlier, in response to Tom's question, right, we believe that the semiconductor unit growth of 10% is going to kick in probably in the second half of calendar '21. Right? So it will be -- as you said, it will be part of our fiscal '21, part of our fiscal '22 because we are September quarter year-end. So we definitely think the recovery, again, subject to the uncertainty around COVID and some of the other macros. But based on historical patterns, 2 years in a row down is unusual. And usually, there's a pickup after that. And again, Gartner is calling for 10%, 11%, semiconductor unit growth over the next 2 years. So we think there will be some in '21.

嗯，我認為，正如 Fusen 之前回答 Tom 的問題時所說，我們相信半導體部門 10% 的成長率可能會在 21 年下半年實現。正確的？所以，正如你所說，它將成為我們 21 財年的一部分，也是我們 22 財年的一部分，因為我們是 9 月季度年末。因此，我們肯定認為，復甦再次受到 COVID 和其他一些宏觀因素的不確定性的影響。但根據歷史規律，連續兩年下跌是不尋常的。通常，此後就會出現回升。Gartner 再次預測，未來兩年半導體銷售將成長 10% 至 11%。所以我們認為 21 年還會有一些。

Got it. And then I guess just for my follow-up, in the auto segment, and I apologize if I missed this. We've seen from a variety of kind of people in auto semiconductor chain things are maybe less bad than feared. Things are maybe picking up a little bit quicker than expected. Are you guys seeing any of that? Or is that kind of something that maybe you would see next quarter just due to a delay?

知道了。然後我想只是為了我的後續行動，在汽車領域，如果我錯過了這一點，我很抱歉。我們從汽車半導體鏈中的各類人士那裡看到，情況可能沒有人們擔心的那麼糟糕。事情的進展可能比預期的快一些。你們看到這些了嗎？或者說，由於延遲，下個季度可能會出現這種情況？

Yes. So we are still seeing auto as relatively soft. Right now, our June quarter revenue is roughly at a 36% 5-year run rate. So we think auto will take a little bit of time to get back. We think that the improvements in the EV space will probably pick up first in the next couple of quarters.

是的。因此，我們仍然認為汽車產業相對疲軟。目前，我們 6 月季度的營收大約相當於 5 年運行率的 36%。因此我們認為汽車需要一點時間才能恢復。我們認為，電動車領域的改善可能會在接下來的幾季首先出現。

Our next question today is coming from Christian Schwab from Craig-Hallum.

我們今天的下一個問題來自 Craig-Hallum 的 Christian Schwab。

Great. Just as a follow-up on the automotive question, if you could put some numbers to that. I think most people are talking about automotive business bottoming in the September quarter with a gradual recovery from there, at least on units and equipment that we talk to. That being the case in kind of a 36% run rate, can you just quantify that as a number for us quick, what that business is doing a quarter and if things normalize in the semiconductor, unit recovery at some point in '21, how big that business could recover to on a yearly basis? Can you give us any color around that?

偉大的。作為汽車問題的後續回答，您能否給出一些數字？我認為大多數人都在談論汽車業務在 9 月季度觸底，然後逐步復甦，至少就我們談到的單位和設備而言。在這種情況下，假設運作率為 36%，您能否快速量化為一個數字，該業務一個季度的表現如何？如果半導體產業的情況恢復正常，單位產量在 21 年某個時候恢復，那麼該業務的年度恢復規模可以達到多少？您能給我們講講這方面的情況嗎？

Sure, Christian. So for the June quarter, we do auto and industrial together. So it -- basically, it went down quite a bit. It's only about $8 million to $9 million. So you talk about on a normalized rate, that will give you some idea. And previously, in the high quarters back in the strong years of '18, I mean auto and industrial is over $25 million.

當然，克里斯蒂安。因此，在二月這個季度，我們將汽車和工業業務放在一起。所以 — — 基本上，它下降了不少。大約只有800萬到900萬美元。因此，您談論的是標準化利率，這會給您一些想法。而此前，在 18 年經濟強勁的幾個季度中，汽車和工業領域的銷售額超過 2,500 萬美元。

Okay. Perfect. And then on the memory side, with the -- listening to everybody last night, I think it's crystal clear, if it hadn't been already, that memory is going to have a strong CapEx here in '21. Is there any type of number that you can kind of walk us through with an increase in spending and technology transitions with some new wafer starts, et cetera? Is there the same type of math you can give us for a recovery in the memory business?

好的。完美的。然後在內存方面，透過昨晚聽大家的發言，我認為很明顯，如果還沒有的話，內存將在 21 年擁有強大的資本支出。您能否向我們介紹支出增加和技術轉型（包括一些新晶圓的投產等）的具體數字？您能否為我們提供內存業務復甦的相同類型的數學計算結果？

Well, I think, Christian, we start to see the strength for us actually in the September quarters. Probably this is the first quarter we start to see a more significant recovery. But last quarter, I remember, I think memory is less than half of our historical run rate. And we start to see a positive sign, I think start from second quarter. And I think [on Friday you] probably will see a stronger recovery than not.

嗯，克里斯蒂安，我認為，我們在九月季度就開始看到我們的優勢了。這可能是我們開始看到更顯著復甦的第一個季度。但我記得上個季度，我認為記憶體運行率還不到我們歷史運行率的一半。我們開始看到積極的跡象，我認為從第二季度開始。我認為（週五你們）可能會看到更強的復甦。

Yes. So Christian, to use the same metric, June quarter memory revenue is roughly about 30% of the 5-year run rate.

是的。因此，克里斯蒂安，使用相同的指標，6 月季度的記憶體收入約為 5 年運行率的 30%。

Okay. Perfect. Okay. Great. And outside of memory and industrial and automotive, is there any particular applications given the fact that 80% of chips use wire body? Is there any other big pockets or markets that investors should be paying attention to, to get more confident in '21 unit growth of being 10% plus for the industry outside of -- well, I'll let you just answer that question, if you can. Sorry.

好的。完美的。好的。偉大的。除了記憶體、工業和汽車領域之外，鑑於 80% 的晶片都使用線體，還有其他特殊應用嗎？是否有其他大型市場或市場值得投資者關注，以便對 21 年行業以外的單位增長率達到 10% 以上更有信心——好吧，如果可以的話，我讓你回答這個問題。對不起。

I think 5G is expanding right now, right? As in wearable device is doing very well. These are 2 area I think the market is doing well.

我認為 5G 現在正在擴展，對嗎？穿戴式裝置表現非常好。我認為這兩個領域市場表現良好。

Okay. Fabulous. And then my last question, there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm about mini and micro LEDs. And I think you guys have one of maybe the only machines out there functioning. Can -- if some of those big -- there's some really large expectations for that marketplace. Is this something that could -- if those growth rates kind of prove out, I mean could you kind of paint us a picture of how big that market potentially could be for you 2 to 4 years out?

好的。太棒了。我的最後一個問題是，人們似乎對迷你 LED 和微型 LED 非常感興趣。我認為你們擁有的機器可能是目前唯一能夠正常運作的機器之一。如果其中一些規模很大的話，那麼對這個市場確實有很大的期望。如果這些成長率得到證實，您能否向我們描述一下 2 到 4 年後這個市場對您來說可能有多大？

Okay. So Chris, I think our own mini and micro LED, what we are focusing right now into 2 applications, one is a big lighting, one is a direct view, right? So whole big lighting, we expect the penetration rate will be about 15% in 2024, right? And for the direct view, we've got (inaudible) display, really a large display. I think the penetration rate will be lower, maybe like 5% to 10%.

好的。所以克里斯，我認為我們自己的迷你和微型 LED，我們現在專注於兩個應用，一個是大型照明，一個是直接視圖，對嗎？所以整個照明產業，我們預計2024年的滲透率將達到15％左右，對嗎？對於直接視圖，我們有（聽不清楚）顯示屏，一個很大的顯示屏。我認為滲透率會更低，大概在5%到10%左右。

But I want to give you example how big is the opportunity? One very large display -- and if we are in [audience that review] TV market, we need to transfer about $25 million at a time from one place to the other place, right? And the traditional transformation is very, very low. So just 1 display and will provide a huge opportunity. So we believe this is really a very, very huge market. At this moment, I think we only work on one other process that we call final placement. And there are many, many processes, right? So we actually want to have a conservative just for us. I think this year, originally our guidance is $40 million for the whole [10-year]. But actually, in the short term, we are seeing more positive. So we probably can have a $40 million revenue just for our '20 fiscal year.

但我想給你舉個例子，這個機會有多大？一個非常大的顯示器——如果我們在電視市場，我們需要一次將大約 2500 萬美元從一個地方轉移到另一個地方，對嗎？而傳統的轉換率非常非常低。因此，只需 1 個顯示器就能提供巨大的機會。所以我們相信這確實是一個非常非常巨大的市場。目前，我認為我們只致力於另一個流程，即所謂的最終安置。而且還有很多很多流程，對吧？所以我們其實想要一個只屬於我們的保守派。我認為今年我們最初的指導金額是整個 [10 年] 4000 萬美元。但實際上，從短期來看，我們看到了更多正面的情況。因此，光是 20 財年，我們可能就能獲得 4,000 萬美元的收入。

I think next year, we are looking at fiscal year to fiscal year, right? So I know we probably can do 60 to 80. And then another year, depend on if we actually push to other space, like I mentioned, sorting, mixing, reposition and recalibration. If we get to other process, actually, it's going to be much bigger. If not, just on the final [personal] step, we expect probably more than $100 million. Another year, will be much, much more significant growth of the lot. So maybe in few quarters, we'll provide you more [creativity], but we do believe we are very excited. And this is really a huge, huge market for us.

我認為明年，我們將逐一財年地審視，對嗎？所以我知道我們大概可以做到 60 到 80。然後再過一年，取決於我們是否真的推進到其他空間，就像我提到的那樣，分類、混合、重新定位和重新校準。如果我們進入其他流程，實際上，它會更大。如果沒有的話，僅在最後一步，我們預計資金就可能超過 1 億美元。再過一年，將會有更顯著的成長。因此也許在幾個季度後，我們會為您提供更多[創造力]，但我們確實相信我們非常興奮。這對我們來說確實是一個巨大的市場。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is coming from Kiki Shih from [Feng].

（操作員指示）我們的下一個問題來自 [Feng] 的 Kiki Shih。

I have 2 questions. The first is regarding our mini LED equipment. So when I was doing the supply chain checks in Asia as kind of the LED companies about pick-and-place, which is one of the more -- most important process in this technology. And then some of them will come back and say, "Oh, we have proprietary pick-and-place technology." So I'm just wondering for our pick-and-place transfer equipment, is it a universal platform? Or so is our competitor kind of the in-house of those companies? Or those company render it proprietary? They're really buying our equipment and then modify it and then use for mass production? That would be my first part of the question. Is the universal platform? And how should I think about the market share in kind of the -- other kind of opportunities rather than kind of this big customer we are engaging now. Yes. That would be the first part of my question.

我有兩個問題。第一個是關於我們miniLED設備。因此，當我在亞洲對 LED 公司的供應鏈進行檢查時，我發現拾放技術是這項技術中最重要的流程之一。然後他們中的一些人會回來說，「哦，我們有專有的拾放技術。」所以我只是想知道我們的拾放轉移設備是一個通用平台嗎？或者說我們的競爭對手是這些公司的內部競爭對手嗎？或是那些公司將其變為專有的？他們真的是購買我們的設備然後對其進行改裝然後用於大規模生產嗎？這是我要問的第一部分。是通用平台嗎？我應該如何看待其他類型的機會中的市場份額，而不是我們現在正在接觸的大客戶。是的。這是我的問題的第一部分。

Okay. Actually, what I can tell you is our technology are really not traditional pick-and-place. So a lot of market share, you mentioned, I really hard to answer you. But all we can tell you is the product we are having has a probably current high throughput in the market, and it's not pick-and-place. (inaudible) So I will not be able to provide you more color with your questions.

好的。實際上，我可以告訴你的是，我們的技術確實不是傳統的拾取和放置技術。所以你提到的很多市場份額，我真的很難回答你。但我們能告訴您的是，我們目前的產品在市場上可能具有很高的吞吐量，而且它不是拾取和放置的。（聽不清楚）因此我無法為您的問題提供更多詳細資訊。

Okay. Sure. Got it. And then my second part of the question is about the product road map. Because I think one of the key barrier for mini and micro LED, of course, one is throughways and the other is kind of the cost. So just on our transfer side, do we have a very clear kind of throughput improvement road map in the next 2, 3 years? Kind of we are targeting a particular kind of throughput improvement or kind of what kind of LED sizes we can do to, like, I don't know, up to like 70 microns or like 30 microns in next couple of years? Can you give more color on our technology road map?

好的。當然。知道了。我的問題的第二部分是關於產品路線圖。因為我認為 mini LED 和 micro LED 面臨的一個關鍵障礙當然是通路，另一個是成本。那麼，僅在我們的轉運方面，我們在未來 2 到 3 年內是否有非常明確的吞吐量改善路線圖？我們的目標是提高某種產量，或是在未來幾年內將 LED 尺寸做到什麼程度，例如，達到 70 微米或 30 微米？能否詳細介紹一下我們的技術路線圖？

Okay. Again, I think we have a very, very different technology compared to other company. So this is a really huge market. But in the meantime, I think this is also very challenging. At this moment, probably we'll have more than 20 kinds of mass transform matter, right? So the successful leader, I think, need to be very dynamic, continue to develop a next-generation system. And our normal pick-in-place, I think we are talking about maybe 10 to 20 [hertz]. But I think the requirement will continue to increase. And depending on different company, I think they will need different road map.

好的。再說一次，我認為我們的技術與其他公司相比非常不同。所以這是一個非常巨大的市場。但同時，我認為這也非常具有挑戰性。這時候，我們可能就會有20多種質量轉化物質，對嗎？因此，我認為，成功的領導者需要非常有活力，並不斷開發下一代系統。而我們正常的現場採摘，我想我們談論的大概是 10 到 20 [赫茲]。但我認為需求還會繼續增加。而且根據不同的公司，我認為他們需要不同的路線圖。

We've reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Joe for any further closing comments.

我們的問答環節已經結束。我想把發言權交還給喬，請他發表進一步的結論。

Thank you, Kevin. Thank you all for the time today. Also, we'll be presenting at several upcoming virtual conferences throughout August and September. As always, please feel free to follow up directly with any additional questions. Have a great day, everyone. Kevin, this concludes our call. Thanks.

謝謝你，凱文。感謝大家今天的寶貴時間。此外，我們還將在八月和九月舉行的幾場虛擬會議上發表演講。像往常一樣，如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時直接諮詢。祝大家有個愉快的一天。凱文，我們的通話到此結束。謝謝。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，享受美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。