Kirby Corp (KEX) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Kirby Corporation 2024 third-quarter earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this event is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Kirby Corporation 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，正在記錄此事件。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Kurt Niemietz, Kirby's VP of Investor Relations and Treasurer.

我現在想將會議交給 Kirby 投資者關係副總裁兼財務主管 Kurt Niemietz。

Good morning, and thank you for joining the Kirby Corporation 2024 Third Quarter Earnings Call. With me today are David Grzebinski, Kirby's Chief Executive Officer; Christian O'Neil, Kirby's President and Chief Operating Officer; and Raj Kumar, Kirby's Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. A slide presentation for today's conference call as well as the earnings release, which was issued earlier today can be found on our website.

早安，感謝您參加 Kirby Corporation 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天與我在一起的有 Kirby 執行長 David Grzebinski；克里斯蒂安·奧尼爾 (Christian O'Neil)，Kirby 總裁兼營運長；以及 Kirby 執行副總裁兼財務長 Raj Kumar。您可以在我們的網站上找到今天電話會議的幻燈片演示以及今天早些時候發布的收益報告。

During this conference call, we may refer to certain non-GAAP or adjusted financial measures. Reconciliations of the non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings press release and are also available on our website in the Investor Relations section under financials.

在本次電話會議中，我們可能會提及某些非公認會計原則或調整後的財務指標。非公認會計原則財務指標與最直接可比較的公認會計原則財務指標的調節表包含在我們的收益新聞稿中，也可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分的財務部分找到。

As a reminder, statements contained in this conference call with respect to the future are forward-looking statements. These statements reflect management's reasonable judgment with respect to future events. Forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, and our actual results could differ materially from those anticipated as a result of various factors.

提醒一下，本次電話會議中包含的有關未來的聲明均為前瞻性聲明。這些陳述反映了管理階層對未來事件的合理判斷。前瞻性陳述涉及風險和不確定性，由於各種因素，我們的實際結果可能與預期有重大差異。

A list of these factors can be found in Kirby's latest Form 10-K and in our other filings made with the SEC from time to time.

這些因素的清單可以在 Kirby 最新的 10-K 表格以及我們不時向 SEC 提交的其他文件中找到。

I will now turn the call over to David.

我現在將把電話轉給大衛。

Thank you, Kurt, and good morning, everyone. Before we begin, I would like to recognize our employees, especially our Florida-based team members that were recently impacted by hurricane Milton. The fast-moving storm left considerable damage across Florida, disrupting the lives of our employees in the area and many were left without power for several days.

謝謝你，庫爾特，大家早安。在開始之前，我想向我們的員工表示感謝，特別是最近受到米爾頓颶風影響的佛羅裡達州團隊成員。這場快速移動的風暴在佛羅裡達州造成了相當大的損失，擾亂了我們在該地區員工的生活，許多人已經停電好幾天了。

During the storm and the immediate recovery thereafter, they remain focused on safety and continue to meet the needs of our customer and our businesses as well as support each other during the event. I want to thank them for their exceptional efforts and resilience during this challenge.

在風暴期間以及隨後的立即恢復過程中，他們仍然專注於安全，繼續滿足我們的客戶和我們的業務的需求，並在活動期間相互支持。我要感謝他們在這項挑戰中所做的傑出努力和堅韌不拔的精神。

Now turning to earnings. Today, we announced third-quarter earnings per share of $1.55, compared to 2023 third quarter earnings per share of $1.05. Our third-quarter results reflected steady market fundamentals in both marine transportation and distribution and services even though we experienced some modest weather and navigational challenges for marine and continued supply challenges in distribution and services. These headwinds were offset by good execution in both marine and distribution and services during the quarter that led to strong financial performance with total revenues up 9% and earnings per share up 48% year over year.

現在轉向收益。今天，我們宣布第三季每股收益為 1.55 美元，而 2023 年第三季每股收益為 1.05 美元。我們的第三季業績反映了海運、分銷和服務方面穩定的市場基本面，儘管我們經歷了一些溫和的天氣和海運挑戰以及分銷和服務方面持續的供應挑戰。本季海運、分銷和服務領域的良好執行力抵消了這些不利因素，帶來了強勁的財務業績，總收入同比增長 9%，每股收益同比增長 48%。

We also generated over $130 million of free cash flow in the quarter, which we used to further strengthen our balance sheet by paying down $70 million in debt and to buy back $56 million in stock.

本季我們也產生了超過 1.3 億美元的自由現金流，我們用這些現金流償還了 7,000 萬美元的債務並回購了 5,600 萬美元的股票，進一步強化了我們的資產負債表。

In inland marine transportation, our third-quarter results reflected further gains in pricing, offset somewhat by the modest impact from poor navigational conditions due to weather and lock delays. From a demand standpoint, customer activity was steady with barge utilization rates running in the 90% range throughout the quarter.

在內陸海運方面，我們第三季的業績反映了定價的進一步上漲，但在一定程度上被天氣和船閘延誤導致的惡劣航行條件造成的輕微影響所抵消。從需求角度來看，客戶活動穩定，駁船利用率整個季度保持在 90% 的範圍內。

Spot prices increased in the low- to mid-single digits sequentially and in the low double-digit range year over year. Term contract prices also renewed up higher with high single-digit increases versus a year ago. Overall, third-quarter inland revenues increased 11% year over year and margins were in the low-20% range.

現貨價格連續上漲幅度為低至中個位數，較去年同期上漲幅度為低兩位數。定期合約價格也重新走高，與一年前相比出現高個位數漲幅。整體而言，第三季內陸營收年增 11%，利潤率在 20% 左右。

In coastal, market fundamentals remain steady with our barge utilization levels running in the mid- to high 90% range. During the quarter, strong customer demand and limited availability of large capacity vessels continued, which resulted in high-20% increases on term contract renewals year over year and average spot market rates that increased in the low double-digit range year over year. Overall, third-quarter coastal revenues increased 23% year over year and the operating margin was in the mid-teens.

在沿海地區，市場基本面保持穩定，駁船利用率維持在 90% 的中高水準。本季度，強勁的客戶需求和大容量船舶供應有限，導致定期合約續約量年增 20%，平均現貨市場運價年增兩位數。整體而言，第三季沿海營收年增 23%，營業利益率為 10%左右。

Turning to distribution and services, demand was mixed across our end markets with growth in some areas offset by slowness or delays in other areas. In power generation, revenue grew 4% sequentially, but was down 6% year over year, driven by supply delays. The pace of orders was strong, adding to our backlog with several large project wins from backup power and other industrial customers as the need for power becomes more critical.

談到分銷和服務，我們的終端市場的需求參差不齊，某些地區的成長被其他地區的緩慢或延誤所抵消。在發電領域，營收季增 4%，但由於供應延遲而較去年同期下降 6%。隨著電力需求變得更加迫切，訂單成長強勁，從備用電源和其他工業客戶贏得了幾個大型項目，這增加了我們的積壓訂單。

In oil and gas, revenues were up 19% year over year and up 8% sequentially, driven by some growth in our e-frac business that was partially offset by a very soft conventional oil and gas business. In our commercial and industrial market, revenues were up 4% year over year, driven by steady demand in marine engine repair, partially offset by softness in on-highway truck service and repair.

在石油和天然氣領域，營收年增 19%，環比成長 8%，這得益於我們的電子壓裂業務的一些成長，但部分成長被非常疲軟的傳統石油和天然氣業務所抵消。在我們的商業和工業市場，在船用引擎維修需求穩定的推動下，營收年增 4%，但部分被公路卡車服務和維修的疲軟所抵消。

In summary, our third-quarter results reflected ongoing strength in market fundamentals for both segments. The inland market is solid and we saw continued upward pricing. In coastal, industry-wide supply-demand dynamics remain very favorable. Our barge utilization is strong, and we are realizing real rate increases. Increased demand for power generation and Distribution and Services is mostly offsetting softness in oil and gas and other areas.

總之，我們第三季的業績反映了兩個細分市場市場基本面的持續強勁。內陸市場穩定，我們看到價格持續上漲。在沿海地區，整個產業的供需動態仍然非常有利。我們的駁船利用率很高，我們正在實現實際費率的成長。發電、配電和服務需求的增加主要抵消了石油和天然氣及其他領域的疲軟。

I'll talk more about our outlook later. But first, I'll turn the call over to Raj to discuss the third-quarter segment results and balance sheet in detail.

稍後我將詳細討論我們的前景。但首先，我將把電話轉給 Raj，詳細討論第三季的業績和資產負債表。

Thank you, David, and good morning, everyone. In the third quarter of 2024, marine transportation segment revenues were $486 million and operating income was $99 million with an operating margin around 21%.

謝謝大衛，大家早安。2024年第三季度，海運部門營收為4.86億美元，營業收入為9,900萬美元，營業利潤率約21%。

Compared to the third quarter of 2023, total marine revenues, inland and coastal combined, increased $56 million or 13% and operating income increased $36 million or 57%. Total marine revenues were flat compared to the second quarter of 2024, while operating income increased 5%. Weather and loss delays modestly impacted operations as we experienced three hurricanes during the quarter.

與 2023 年第三季相比，內陸和沿海的海洋總收入增加了 5,600 萬美元，即 13%，營業收入增加了 3,600 萬美元，即 57%。與 2024 年第二季相比，海洋總收入持平，而營業收入成長 5%。由於我們在本季經歷了三場颶風，因此天氣和損失延誤對營運產生了一定程度的影響。

Although the hurricanes had limited direct impact on our operations, they did briefly slow customer activity during the quarter. Overall, we experienced a 33% year-over-year increase in delay days. These headwinds were offset by solid underlying customer demand, improved pricing and most importantly, execution.

儘管颶風對我們營運的直接影響有限，但確實短暫減緩了本季的客戶活動。總體而言，延誤天數較去年同期增加了 33%。這些不利因素被堅實的潛在客戶需求、改進的定價以及最重要的執行力所抵消。

Looking at the inland business in more detail. The inland business contributed approximately 81% of segment revenue.

更詳細地審視內陸業務。內陸業務貢獻了分部收入的約81%。

Average barge utilization was in the 90% range for the quarter, which was an improvement over the third quarter of 2023, but slightly lower than the second quarter of 2024. Long-term inland marine transportation contracts of those contracts with a term of one year or longer, contributed approximately 65% of revenue with 62% from time charters and 38% from contracts of affreightment.

本季駁船平均利用率在 90% 範圍內，比 2023 年第三季有所改善，但略低於 2024 年第二季。其中，期限為一年或以上的長期內陸海運合約約佔收入的65%，其中62%來自期租合同，38%來自貨運合約。

As David mentioned, improved market conditions contributed to spot market rates increasing sequentially in the low to mid-single digits and in the low double-digit range year over year. Term contracts that renewed during the third quarter were up on average in the high single digits compared to the prior year. Compared to the third quarter of 2023, inland revenues increased 11% primarily due to higher term and spot contract pricing.

正如大衛所提到的，市場狀況的改善導致現貨市場利率逐年在低至中個位數和低兩位數範圍內增長。與去年同期相比，第三季續約的定期合約平均呈現高個位數成長。與 2023 年第三季相比，內陸收入成長了 11%，主要是由於定期和現貨合約定價較高。

Inland revenues were flat compared to the second quarter of 2024. Inland operating margins improved by around 350 basis points year over year and by 75 basis points sequentially, driven by the impact of higher pricing and ongoing cost management, which helps blunt lingering inflationary pressures.

與 2024 年第二季相比，內陸收入持平。受定價上漲和持續成本管理的影響，內陸營業利潤率年增了約 350 個基點，環比提高了 75 個基點，這有助於緩解揮之不去的通膨壓力。

Now moving to the coastal business. Coastal revenues increased 23% year over year due to high contract pricing and fewer shipyards. Overall, coastal had an operating margin in the mid-teens range, resulting from higher pricing and shipyard timing. This will temporarily reverse in the fourth quarter given the higher number of shipyards we have on schedule.

現轉向沿海業務。由於合約價格較高和造船廠較少，沿海收入年增 23%。總體而言，由於較高的定價和造船廠的時機，沿海航運的營業利潤率約為十幾歲。鑑於我們按計劃擁有的造船廠數量較多，這種情況將在第四季度暫時逆轉。

The coastal business represented 19% of revenues for the Marine Transportation segment. Average coastal barge utilization was in the mid- to high-90% range, which is in line with both the third quarter of 2023 and the second quarter of 2024. During the quarter, the percentage of coastal revenue under term contracts was approximately 99%, of which approximately 99% were time charters. Average spot market rates were up in the low double digit range year over year. Renewals of term contract prices were higher in the high 20% range on average year over year.

沿海業務佔海運部門收入的 19%。沿海駁船平均利用率處於 90% 的中高水平，這與 2023 年第三季和 2024 年第二季的情況一致。本季度，沿海定期合約收入比例約為 99%，其中約 99% 為期租約。現貨市場平均利率年增在較低的兩位數範圍內。定期合約續約價格較去年同期上漲 20%。

With respect to our tank barge fleet for both the inland and coastal businesses, we have provided a reconciliation of the changes in the third quarter as well as projections for 2024. This is included in our earnings call presentation posted on our website. At the end of the third quarter, the inland fleet had 1,095 barges, representing 24.2 million barrels of capacity.

對於我們內陸和沿海業務的油罐駁船隊，我們提供了第三季的變化以及 2024 年的預測。這包含在我們網站上發布的財報電話會議簡報中。截至第三季末，內陸船隊擁有駁船1,095艘，運力2,420萬桶。

On a net basis, we expect to end 2024 with a total of 1,093 inland barges, representing 24.2 million barrels of capacity. Coastal marine is expected to remain unchanged for the year.

以淨額計算，我們預計到 2024 年底，內陸駁船總數將達到 1,093 艘，運力達到 2,420 萬桶。預計今年沿海海洋將維持不變。

Now I'll review the performance of the distribution and services segment. Total segment revenues for the third quarter of 2024 were $345 million with an operating income of $30 million and an operating margin of 8.8%. Compared to the third quarter of 2023, the distribution and services segment revenue increased by $10 million or 3%, while operating income decreased by $3 million or 8% due to mix. When compared to the second quarter of 2024, segment revenues increased by $6 million or 2% and operating income increased by $1 million or 3%.

現在我將回顧分銷和服務部門的表現。2024 年第三季部門總收入為 3.45 億美元，營業收入為 3,000 萬美元，營業利潤率為 8.8%。與 2023 年第三季相比，分銷和服務部門收入增加了 1,000 萬美元，即 3%，而營業收入因混合而減少了 300 萬美元，即 8%。與 2024 年第二季相比，部門收入增加了 600 萬美元，即 2%，營業收入增加了 100 萬美元，即 3%。

Moving to the segments in more detail. In power generation, our revenues tied to industrial end markets were up 16% sequentially and 61% year over year. We continue to see significant power generation orders resulting in higher backlog from backup power, data centers and other industrial applications. Our power generation revenues tied to the oil and gas space were down sequentially and year over year as product delays continue to contribute to lumpiness.

更詳細地轉向各個部分。在發電領域，我們與工業終端市場相關的營收季增 16%，年增 61%。我們繼續看到大量發電訂單導致備用電源、資料中心和其他工業應用的積壓量增加。由於產品延誤持續導致不穩定，我們與石油和天然氣領域相關的發電收入連續下降並同比下降。

Altogether, with the decline in oil and gas related to power generation, revenues were down 6% year-over-year and operating income was down 26% year over year with operating margins around 10%. Power generation represented 32% of total segment revenues.

整體而言，由於與發電相關的石油和天然氣產量下降，收入較去年同期下降 6%，營業收入較去年同期下降 26%，營業利潤率約 10%。發電佔部門總收入的32%。

On the commercial and industrial side, steady activity in marine repair offset lower activity in other areas, particularly on-highway truck service. As a result, commercial and industrial revenues were up 4% year-over-year. Operating income increased 15% year over year, driven by favorable product mix and ongoing cost savings initiatives. Commercial and industrial made up 47% of segment revenues and had operating margins in the high single digits.

在商業和工業方面，船舶維修領域的穩定活動抵消了其他領域活動的下降，特別是公路卡車服務。工商業收入較去年同期成長4%。在有利的產品組合和持續的成本節約措施的推動下，營業收入較去年同期成長 15%。商業和工業業務佔該部門收入的 47%，營業利潤率高達個位數。

In the oil and gas market, we continue to see softness in conventional frac-related equipment as lower rig counts and lower fracking demand tempered demand for new engines, transmissions and parts throughout the quarter. This softness is being partially offset by solid execution and backlog and new orders of e-frac related equipment.

在石油和天然氣市場，我們繼續看到傳統壓裂相關設備的疲軟，因為鑽機數量減少和壓裂需求下降抑制了整個季度對新引擎、變速箱和零件的需求。這種疲軟現像被可靠的執行、積壓訂單以及電子壓裂相關設備的新訂單部分抵消。

Revenues in oil and gas were up 19% year over year and up 8% sequentially while operating income was down 14% year over year, but up 166% sequentially as lower conventional work continues to get replaced by execution on e-frac backlog. Oil and gas represented 21% of segment revenue in the third quarter and then operating margins in the mid- to high single digits. Now I'll turn to the balance sheet.

石油和天然氣收入年增 19%，環比增長 8%，營業收入同比下降 14%，但環比增長 166%，因為較低的常規工作繼續被 e-frac 積壓訂單的執行所取代。石油和天然氣佔第三季部門營收的 21%，營運利潤率為中高個位數。現在我將轉向資產負債表。

As of September 30, we had $67 million of cash with total debt of around $979 million, and our debt-to-cap ratio improved to 22.9%. During the quarter, we had net cash flow from operating activities of around $207 million. Third-quarter cash flow from operations benefited from a working capital reduction of approximately $30 million.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們擁有 6,700 萬美元現金，總債務約 9.79 億美元，負債上限比率提高至 22.9%。本季度，我們經營活動產生的淨現金流量約為 2.07 億美元。第三季營運現金流受惠於營運資本減少約 3,000 萬美元。

We continue to target unwinding more working capital in the fourth quarter and into 2025. We used cash flow and cash on hand to fund $76 million of capital expenditures or CapEx primarily related to maintenance of marine equipment.

我們的目標繼續是在第四季和 2025 年釋放更多營運資金。我們使用現金流量和手頭現金為 7,600 萬美元的資本支出或主要與船舶設備維護相關的資本支出提供資金。

Free cash flow generation during the quarter was just over $130 million. And during the quarter, we used $56 million to repurchase stock at an average price of $115 and reduced our debt by around [$70 million].

本季產生的自由現金流略高於 1.3 億美元。在本季度，我們使用 5,600 萬美元以平均價格 115 美元回購股票，並將債務減少了約[7000萬美元]。

As of September 30, we had total available liquidity of approximately $570 million. For 2024, we remain on track to generate cash flow from operations of $600 million to $700 million driven by higher revenues and earnings. We still see some supply chain constraints, especially in the power generation space, posing some headwinds to managing working capital in the near term.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們可用的流動資金總額約為 5.7 億美元。到 2024 年，在收入和收益增加的推動下，我們仍有望從營運中產生 6 億至 7 億美元的現金流。我們仍然看到一些供應鏈限制，特別是在發電領域，這對短期內的營運資本管理帶來了一些阻力。

Having said that, we are targeting to unwind more working capital as orders shipped in 2024 and into 2025. With respect to CapEx, we expect capital spending to range between $325 million to $355 million for the year. This represents a slight increase from our prior range as we plan to make additional investments in our power generation rental business.

話雖如此，我們的目標是隨著 2024 年和 2025 年發貨的訂單釋放更多營運資金。就資本支出而言，我們預計今年的資本支出將在 3.25 億美元至 3.55 億美元之間。這比我們之前的範圍略有增加，因為我們計劃對發電租賃業務進行額外投資。

Approximately $200 million to $240 million is associated with marine maintenance capital and improvements to existing inland and coastal marine equipment and facility improvements. Approximately $115 million is associated with growth capital spending in both of our businesses.

大約 2 億至 2.4 億美元用於海洋維護資本以及現有內陸和沿海海洋設備和設施的改進。我們兩項業務的成長資本支出約為 1.15 億美元。

We expect the net result to continue to provide approximately $300 million to $350 million of free cash flow for the year. As always, we are committed to a balanced capital allocation approach and we'll use this cash flow to return capital to shareholders and continue to pursue long-term value-creating investment and acquisition opportunities.

我們預計今年的淨結果將繼續提供約 3 億至 3.5 億美元的自由現金流。一如既往，我們致力於平衡的資本配置方法，我們將利用這些現金流向股東返還資本，並繼續尋求長期創造價值的投資和收購機會。

I will now turn the call back to David to discuss our fourth quarter outlook.

我現在將把電話轉回給大衛，討論我們第四季的前景。

Thank you, Raj. While we ended the quarter in a strong position in our businesses, the beginning of the fourth quarter so far was challenged by hurricane Milton. The hurricane impacted our marine operations and temporarily shut down some of our distribution and services locations.

謝謝你，拉吉。雖然我們在本季度結束時在業務中處於強勢地位，但第四季度初迄今為止受到了颶風米爾頓的挑戰。颶風影響了我們的海上業務，並暫時關閉了我們的一些分銷和服務地點。

Our teams worked hard through the challenging environment, and we're pleased to have quickly returned to normal working conditions. For detail on the marine outlook, our overall outlook remains solid for the final quarter of the year, driven in large part by limited availability of equipment what will be tempered by the onset of seasonal weather, a bit of softness in the refining market and some higher maintenance levels.

我們的團隊在充滿挑戰的環境中努力工作，我們很高興能夠迅速恢復正常的工作條件。關於海洋前景的詳細信息，我們對今年最後一個季度的整體前景仍然穩健，這在很大程度上是由於設備的可用性有限，而設備的可用性將受到季節性天氣的到來、煉油市場的疲軟以及一些因素的影響。

In inland, we continue to anticipate positive market dynamics due to limited new barge construction. Demand is solid, but we have seen a little softening in the refining sector early in the quarter. Nonetheless, with these solid market fundamentals, we expect our barge utilization rates to be around the 90% range throughout the remainder of the year.

在內陸地區，由於新駁船建造有限，我們繼續預期市場將出現積極的動態。需求強勁，但我們在本季初看到煉油業略有疲軟。儘管如此，憑藉這些堅實的市場基本面，我們預計今年剩餘時間內我們的駁船利用率將保持在 90% 左右。

We also expect continued improvement in term contract pricing as renewals occur throughout the final quarter of the year. We continue to see inflationary pressures in some areas, and there is an acute mariner shortage in the industry driving up labor costs.

我們也預計，隨著今年最後一個季度的續約，定期合約定價將持續改善。部分地區通膨壓力持續存在，業界船員嚴重短缺，勞動成本上升。

These pressures along with the increasing cost of equipment should continue to put upward pressure on prices. That said, we expect inland revenues will be flat to slightly down in the fourth quarter due to normal seasonality and consequently, our operating margins are expected to be down as compared to the third quarter.

這些壓力以及設備成本的增加將持續對價格造成上行壓力。也就是說，由於正常的季節性因素，我們預計第四季度的內陸收入將持平或略有下降，因此，我們的營業利潤率預計將比第三季下降。

In coastal, market conditions remained very favorable and supply and demand are in balance across the industry fleet. Steady customer demand is expected in the fourth quarter with our barge utilization in the mid-90% range. We expect margins in the fourth quarter to be in the mid- to high single digits, given a number of planned shipyards in the fourth quarter.

在沿海地區，市場狀況仍然非常有利，整個產業的供需平衡。預計第四季客戶需求穩定，駁船利用率約 90%。鑑於第四季計劃建造一些造船廠，我們預計第四季的利潤率將達到中高個位數。

Coastal revenues are expected to be down in the mid-single digits sequentially because of the shipyards.

由於造船廠的影響，沿海地區的收入預計將連續下降個位數。

In the Distribution and Services segment, we see near-term uncertainty from supply issues, customers deferring maintenance and lower overall levels of activity in the oil and gas sector. However, longer term, we expect incremental demand for products, parts and services in oil and gas as rates of investment improved from what feels like a close to the bottom market in oil and gas.

在分銷和服務領域，我們看到供應問題、客戶延遲維護以及石油和天然氣行業整體活動水平較低帶來的近期不確定性。然而，從長遠來看，隨著石油和天然氣市場的投資率從接近谷底的水平提高，我們預計對石油和天然氣產品、零件和服務的需求將會增加。

In commercial and industrial, the demand outlook in marine repair remained steady, while on-highway service and repair is somewhat weak in the current environment. Similar to oil and gas, the on-highway market feels close to bottoming from the trucking recession that we've experienced recently.

在商業和工業領域，船舶維修的需求前景保持穩定，而公路服務和維修在當前環境下有些疲軟。與石油和天然氣類似，公路市場感覺即將從我們最近經歷的卡車運輸衰退中觸底。

In power generation, we anticipate continued strong growth in orders as data center demand and the need for backup power is very strong. We do anticipate extended lead times for certain OEM products to continue contributing to volatile delivery schedule of new products in the fourth quarter and in 2025.

在發電方面，隨著資料中心需求和備用電源的需求非常強勁，我們預計訂單將持續強勁成長。我們確實預計某些 OEM 產品的交貨時間會延長，這將繼續導致第四季度和 2025 年新產品的交付時間表不穩定。

Overall, the company expects the segment revenues to be down in the mid-single digits sequentially, with operating margins in the mid- to high single digits, but lower than the third quarter.

總體而言，該公司預計該部門收入將連續下降中個位數，營業利潤率將達到中個位數至高個位數，但低於第三季。

To conclude, overall solid execution and good market conditions led to a strong quarter for us, and we have a favorable outlook as we look into this quarter and next year. A lack of meaningful new build of equipment in marine has supply in check, and we continue to receive new orders for power generation equipment as we work through supply issues.

總而言之，整體穩健的執行力和良好的市場條件為我們帶來了強勁的季度業績，在展望本季和明年時，我們對前景抱持樂觀的態度。由於缺乏有意義的新建船舶設備，供應受到了限制，在解決供應問題的過程中，我們繼續收到發電設備的新訂單。

Our balance sheet is strong, and we expect to generate significant cash flow this quarter and in 2025. We see favorable fundamentals continuing and expect our businesses will produce solid financial results as we move through the remainder of this year and into the next few years.

我們的資產負債表強勁，預計本季和 2025 年將產生大量現金流。我們看到有利的基本面持續存在，並預計在今年剩餘時間和未來幾年中，我們的業務將產生穩健的財務表現。

As we look long term, we are confident in the strength of our core businesses and our long-term strategy. We intend to continue capitalizing on strong market fundamentals and driving shareholder value creation.

著眼長遠，我們對核心業務的實力和長期策略充滿信心。我們打算繼續利用強勁的市場基本面並推動股東價值創造。

Operator, this concludes our prepared remarks. Christian, Raj and I are now ready to take questions.

接線員，我們準備好的發言到此結束。克里斯蒂安、拉吉和我現在準備好回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Daniel Imbro, Stephens Inc.

（操作員說明）Daniel Imbro，Stephens Inc.

Congrats on the quarter. I want to start with inland side. On pricing, it looks like comp rates increased up high single, that's up from mid-single in 2Q. In the slides, David, it looks like you took down your net fleet size at year-end expectations.

恭喜本季。我想從內陸地區開始。在定價方面，看起來高單曲的補償率上升，高於第二季度的中單曲。大衛，在幻燈片中，您似乎降低了年底預期的淨機隊規模。

So can you just provide maybe given that backdrop an update on the spot price environment here in 4Q? And from your vantage point, how do you feel about bid season and contract renewals coming into year-end and then maybe into 2025?

那麼，考慮到這種背景，您能否提供第四季現貨價格環境的最新情況？從您的角度來看，您對年底乃至 2025 年的競標季節和合約續約有何看法？

Sure. Well, let me break that into some pieces and Christian will chime in as well. Yes. In our barge count, I think we're going from 1,095 on inland down to 1,093, that's just some normal retirements as some barges hit that 35-year mark in terms of age, which is actually part of what the industry is going to be doing is continuing to retire barges, which is good because there's not a lot of new supply coming on in the market.

當然。好吧，讓我把它分成幾部分，克里斯蒂安也會插話。是的。在我們的駁船數量中，我認為我們將從內陸的 1,095 艘減少到 1,093 艘，這只是一些正常的退役，因為一些駁船的船齡已達到 35 年，這實際上是該行業未來發展的一部分要做的就是繼續退役駁船，這很好，因為市場上沒有大量新供應。

And look, we're fundamentally a supply and demand business and supply is in check. We've seen the cost of barges go up even this last quarter, we're hearing $4.5 million for a new 30,000 barrel clean barge. So supply has been in check, and that's a good thing. I think year-to-date through the third quarter, there's about 22 barges that have been delivered. I'm not sure how many will be delivered in the fourth quarter, but it's not going to be an enormous number at all.

看，我們從根本上來說就是一個供需業務，供應受到控制。即使在上個季度，我們也看到駁船的成本正在上漲，我們聽說一艘新的 30,000 桶清潔駁船的成本為 450 萬美元。因此供應受到了控制，這是一件好事。我認為今年迄今到第三季度，大約已交付 22 艘駁船。我不確定第四季度會交付多少，但絕對不會是一個巨大的數字。

And then with retirements, like you're seeing us going to retire some barges. I think the industry is going to retire a fair number of barges. So we may actually see from a supply standpoint, net contraction in the number of barges out there.

然後是退役，就像你看到我們要退役一些駁船一樣。我認為該行業將淘汰相當數量的駁船。因此，從供應的角度來看，我們實際上可能會看到駁船數量的淨收縮。

So when you look at that supply picture, it's pretty strong for us and the industry. We have seen a little pullback in refiners here in the last few weeks, last month or so, and Christian can give you some more color on that. But that's a little bit on the demand side. There are some bright spots on the demand side. But when you put supply and demand together, it's still in a good spot.

因此，當您查看供應情況時，您會發現這對我們和整個行業來說都非常強勁。在過去幾週、上個月左右的時間裡，我們看到這裡的煉油廠略有回落，克里斯蒂安可以給你更多關於這一點的資訊。但這只是需求方面的一點。需求端也有一些亮點。但當你把供給和需求放在一起時，它仍然處於一個好的位置。

As you saw, our pricing was up sequentially on spot, 3% to 5% and on year-over-year basis, spot prices were up 10% to 12%. Term contracts renewed in the 6% to 9% range in the third quarter. And we're set up for a good renewal cycle in the fourth quarter, and Christian can give you some more color on that.

正如您所看到的，我們的現貨價格連續上漲 3% 至 5%，年比現貨價格上漲 10% 至 12%。第三季定期合約續約率在 6% 至 9% 之間。我們已經為第四季度的良好更新周期做好了準備，克里斯蒂安可以給你更多關於這方面的資訊。

So we're very constructive looking forward more of the same here. I'll turn it over to Chris to give you a little more color on the demand side and what he's seeing and feeling on day-to-day side.

因此，我們非常有建設性地期待這裡有更多類似的事情。我會將其交給克里斯，讓您了解更多有關需求方面的信息以及他在日常方面的所見所感。

Sure. Thank you, David. I think what you see around Q4 spot pricing, of course, we're early into the quarter. It's a lot of the normal seasonality peak driving season winds down around Labor Day, refineries get into turnaround season, start doing their maintenance can affect some of the volumes. However, what usually offsets that in Q4 is the winter weather conditions.

當然。謝謝你，大衛。當然，我認為您在第四季度現貨定價方面看到的情況是，我們正處於本季初期。許多正常的季節性高峰駕駛季節在勞動節前後結束，煉油廠進入周轉季節，開始進行維護可能會影響一些產量。然而，第四季度通常會抵消冬季天氣狀況的影響。

We haven't had a real big dose of that yet of fog and winter cold fronts, but that will help re-tighten barge utility across the market as a whole. Interestingly, in Q4, we're also seeing a little better uptick in our chemical business. It's not a great amount, but it's something interesting to watch to maybe offset some of the maintenance being done at the large refining companies.

我們還沒有遇到真正大劑量的霧和冬季冷鋒，但這將有助於重新收緊整個市場的駁船公用事業。有趣的是，在第四季度，我們的化學品業務也出現了一些更好的成長。雖然金額不大，但值得關注，也許可以抵消大型煉油公司正在進行的一些維護工作。

To David's point and your question around term renewals, term renewals in Q4 are going very well. Our major customers are really happy. Our performance has been really at a very high level. They're very pleased. They're rewarding us for that service.

對於大衛的觀點和你關於任期續約的問題，第四季的任期續約進展順利。我們的主要客戶真的很高興。我們的表現確實處於非常高的水平。他們非常高興。他們正在獎勵我們的這項服務。

So Q4 term renewals are going nicely. Now a lot of that benefit, we won't really see until 2025. But I think I heard you ask at the end of the question about that. So I wanted to touch on that as well.

因此，第四季的任期續約進展順利。現在，我們要到 2025 年才能真正看到很多好處。但我想我聽到你在問題的最後問了這個問題。所以我也想談談這一點。

I really appreciate all that color. And then maybe a follow-up on it. David, in the past, you've talked about given just the inland backdrop, at least a few hundred basis points of margin improvement year-over-year, I think for this year and next year, you did that again in the third quarter.

我真的很欣賞所有這些顏色。然後也許會有後續行動。大衛，過去您曾談到，僅考慮內陸背景，利潤率同比至少提高幾百個基點，我認為今年和明年，您在第三季度再次做到了這一點。

I guess, as you look forward and given that supply demand backdrop, where can margins get to during this cycle as you look forward, if shipbuilding remained lower, rates keep going higher? Can you just walk through the puts and takes of kind of where you see inland margin getting to in the coming years?

我想，當你展望未來時，考慮到供需背景，如果造船業保持較低水平，利率繼續走高，那麼在這個週期中，利潤率會達到什麼水平？您能簡單介紹一下您認為未來幾年內陸利潤率將達到的看跌期權和賣出期權嗎？

Sure, sure. Let me start by saying we continue to fight inflation. But that said, we are getting real price increases, not just nominal price increases. When you look at '23 to '24 full-year average, and we like looking at it on a full year average basis because of the seasonality, the weather that Christian just talked about, some of the demand seasonality from some of our end customers, we like to look at it year over year.

當然，當然。首先我要說的是，我們將繼續對抗通貨膨脹。但話雖如此，我們正在獲得實際的價格上漲，而不僅僅是名義上的價格上漲。當你查看 23 至 24 全年平均值時，我們喜歡以全年平均值為基礎進行查看，因為季節性、克里斯蒂安剛才談到的天氣、我們的一些最終客戶的一些需求季節性，我們喜歡年復一年地觀察它。

And you heard in Raj's prepared comments, sequentially, our margins were up 75 basis points second quarter to third quarter in inland. And for the full year, year over year, we were up about 350 basis points is what he said. So we had said for '24 versus '23, we'd be up 300 to 400 basis points. We're smack dab in the middle of that based on the number Raj gave.

您在 Raj 準備好的評論中聽到了，第二季到第三季我們內陸地區的利潤率連續成長了 75 個基點。他說，全年年增約 350 個基點。因此，我們曾說過，24 年與 23 年相比，我們會上漲 300 到 400 個基點。根據拉吉給出的數字，我們正好處於中間位置。

Looking into '25, I would say we'll be up 200 to 300 basis points in that range. There's a lot going on that can affect that, as you would expect, inflation being one of them. Labor rates, we've been through pretty acute labor market in the marine sector. And there's been shortages of mariners across the board, across the whole industry both inland and coastal. So we've been fighting that.

展望 25 年，我想說我們將在該範圍內上漲 200 至 300 個基點。正如您所預料的那樣，有很多事情會影響這一點，通貨膨脹就是其中之一。勞動價格，我們經歷了海洋領域相當嚴峻的勞動市場。內陸和沿海整個產業都普遍存在海員短缺的情況。所以我們一直在與之鬥爭。

You heard the newbuild prices for barges, just all the inputs are up. And I know you see the rhetoric and the political debates, but inflation is real. We're still seeing it even with steel prices coming down a little bit, all the other input prices are up. So you put all that in there, we still think probably 200 to 300 basis points for inland next year.

您聽說過駁船的新建價格，只是所有投入都上漲了。我知道你看到了言論和政治辯論，但通貨膨脹是真實存在的。即使鋼材價格略有下降，我們仍然看到這種情況，所有其他投入價格都在上漲。所以你把所有這些都放在裡面，我們仍然認為明年內陸地區可能會上漲 200 到 300 個基點。

I think peak margins, to your base question, I'd be very disappointed if we don't go above our last cycle peak, which was about -- I think we had one quarter where we were 27%-ish, maybe 27.5%. I'd be disappointed if we don't go right through this cycle. We've got several more years of this based on the supply and demand picture. So we're really constructive. Christian and I are pinching ourselves about how good this feels.

我認為，對於您的基本問題，如果我們不超過上一個週期的峰值，我會非常失望，我認為我們有一個季度的利潤率為 27% 左右，也許是 27.5% 。如果我們不完成這個週期，我會感到失望。根據供需情況，我們還有幾年的時間。所以我們真的很有建設性。克里斯蒂安和我都在掐自己，這種感覺有多好。

Greg Lewis, BTIG.

格雷格·劉易斯，BTIG。

I guess if we look back like 18, 24 months ago, David, you were very focused on, hey, we're going to be -- the market is going to be -- the fleet on the inland side is going to be more spotty than short term than term. As we look at where we are today in terms of the spot term mix, I imagine that's been improved. I didn't hear anything in the prepared remarks. But as we look out over the next couple of quarters, how are you thinking about the mix of spot term on the inland side?

我想如果我們回顧 18、24 個月前，大衛，你非常關注，嘿，我們將會——市場將會——內陸一側的機隊將更多比短期比長期不穩定。當我們看看我們今天在現貨期限組合方面的情況時，我想這已經得到了改善。我在準備好的發言中沒有聽到任何內容。但當我們展望未來幾季時，您如何看待內陸地區的現貨期限組合？

Yes. No, we -- I'm surprised we didn't give that number, but it's about 65% term, 35% spot in the inland side. Yes, we're comfortable with it there because we believe spot pricing and all pricing should continue to go up for the next couple of years, at least. And again, that gets back to the supply-demand picture. When you think about building new equipment and a 30,000-barrel barge at $4.5 million, we need prices up at least 30% from where they are.

是的。不，我很驚訝我們沒有給出這個數字，但大約 65% 是長期的，35% 在內陸地區。是的，我們對此感到滿意，因為我們相信現貨定價和所有定價至少在未來幾年內應該會繼續上漲。這又回到了供需情況。當您考慮以 450 萬美元建造新設備和一艘 30,000 桶駁船時，我們需要將價格比現在上漲至少 30%。

So we're very constructive about it. Could you see term get up to 70% on average next year? Maybe, we'll see. We're comfortable with where it is, because again, we have this view that supply and demand is going to stay really good for the next several years.

所以我們對此非常有建設性。您認為明年平均期限能達到 70% 嗎？也許，我們會看到。我們對目前的情況感到滿意，因為我們再次認為，未來幾年供需將保持良好。

Okay. Great. And then I had a -- I did want to ask about the oil price. Clearly, it's volatile, realizing that fuel is largely a pass-through for you. But I guess what I'm wondering is like how should we be thinking about the impact on and whether it's a little bit on the margin side or -- how should we be thinking about in an environment where, I don't know let's frame it both ways, if we look at where we are in the oil price today, maybe if it's up $15 up or $15 down, what type of impact do you think that maybe has on your ability around pricing and really just on margins?

好的。偉大的。然後我確實想問油價。顯然，它是不穩定的，因為意識到燃料在很大程度上是你的傳遞。但我想我想知道的是，我們應該如何考慮影響，以及它是否有點邊緣化，或者——我們應該如何考慮在一個我不知道讓我們框架的環境中雙向，如果我們看看今天的油價，也許上漲15 美元或下跌15 美元，您認為這可能會對您的定價能力以及利潤率產生什麼樣的影響？

Yes. I mean you hit the nail on the head, fuel is a pass-through for us. We work really hard with our customers. We don't want to make money on fuel, and we don't want to lose money on fuel. Most of our customers are better able to handle that fuel risk than we are anyway.

是的。我的意思是，你說得一中要害，燃料對我們來說是一種傳遞。我們非常努力地與客戶合作。我們不想在燃油上賺錢，也不想在燃料上賠錢。無論如何，我們的大多數客戶都比我們更有能力應對燃料風險。

So from a direct impact, it's not much. I think the higher the price deck for oil usually is better for our chemical customers and our refiners. So on the margin, the higher the oil price, probably the better for our industry. The lower -- it does stimulate some demand. And what we really do care about is the volumes.

所以從直接影響來看，影響並不大。我認為石油價格越高通常對我們的化學客戶和煉油廠越好。因此，從邊際角度來看，油價越高，可能對我們的產業越好。較低——確實刺激了一些需求。我們真正關心的是數量。

So by and large, it's a mix, but I would say is biased to the upward side. The higher it is usually the better for us. Look, you want your customers making money. They're a lot nicer to deal with when they're making good money. So that -- not that they're not nice to deal with any day, but you understand.

總的來說，這是一個混合體，但我想說的是偏向向上的一面。通常對我們來說越高越好。看，您希望您的客戶賺錢。當他們賺大錢時，他們就更容易相處了。所以——並不是說他們每天都不好相處，但你明白。

Now that said, look, on the D&S side, the oilfield, even at this price deck of $70 per WTI and $73 for Brent, our D&S oil and gas business, the conventional oil and gas business is minimal. It's almost nonexistent. For the first time in probably two decades, we will not deliver this year a conventional frac system.

話雖如此，在 D&S 方面，即油田，即使按照 WTI 70 美元/布倫特 73 美元（我們的 D&S 石油和天然氣業務）的價格，傳統石油和天然氣業務也微乎其微。這幾乎不存在。今年可能是二十年來的第一次，我們不會提供傳統的壓裂系統。

All of our orders are electric frac. And I mean, you can see it from some of our customers announcing the impairments as they write off some of their old conventional frac equipment. Our base oil and gas business is really low, very, very weak.

我們所有的訂單都是電動壓裂。我的意思是，您可以從我們的一些客戶在註銷一些舊的傳統壓裂設備時宣布減值中看到這一點。我們的基礎石油和天然氣業務確實很低，非常非常薄弱。

Now have we bottomed? I don't know. We're just very thankful that we have a great e-frac offering. And that is making great gains and everybody seems focused on e-frac just because of the inherent efficiency. And we're happy to have that.

現在我們已經觸底了嗎？我不知道。我們非常感謝我們擁有出色的電子壓裂產品。這正在取得巨大的成果，每個人似乎都專注於電子壓裂，因為它固有的效率。我們很高興能做到這一點。

So to your base question, if oil and gas goes up or down, I still think e-frac will be good. Until the bulk of the pressure pumping equipment out there is e-frac, I think we'll continue to grow e-frac because it's just that much more efficient for both our customers and the E&P customers themselves. So that's a long-winded answer. I hope I got you (inaudible).

因此，對於你的基本問題，如果石油和天然氣上漲或下跌，我仍然認為電子壓裂會很好。在大部分壓力泵送設備採用 e-frac 之前，我認為我們將繼續發展 e-frac，因為它對我們的客戶和勘探與生產客戶本身來說都更有效率。所以這是一個冗長的答案。我希望我能得到你（聽不清楚）。

Ben Nolan, Stifel.

本諾蘭，史蒂菲爾。

I wanted to hit on the electrification business a little bit. There's obviously the supply chain issues that you talked about, but it sounds like you're continuing to grow the backlog.

我想涉足電氣化業務。顯然您談到了供應鏈問題，但聽起來您的積壓訂單仍在繼續增加。

First, could you maybe frame that in, like, I don't know, maybe what is the backlog or how much did it grow or something like that in the third quarter? And is it possible for you to maybe frame in how you think about what the TAM or whatever -- what will you think is doable for that business in the next, I don't know, three, five years or something like that?

首先，您能否將其納入框架，例如，我不知道，也許第三季的積壓是多少，或者增長了多少，或者類似的事情？您是否有可能框架一下您對 TAM 或其他什麼的看法 - 您認為在接下來的三年、五年或類似的時間內，我不知道該業務對該業務的可行性是什麼？

Yes, sure. I'll try and give you some color, we're a little reticent to publish backlog numbers every quarter. But first, the well-worn excuse of blaming things on supply chain. I hate doing that, but frankly, you've seen it with the big engine. The big engines out there are right now -- if you ordered engines right now from any of the major engine suppliers, it's '26 delivery.

是的，當然。我會盡力給你一些訊息，我們有點不願意每季發布積壓訂單數量。但首先，這是將問題歸咎於供應鏈的老套藉口。我討厭這樣做，但坦白說，你已經在大型引擎上看到過這種情況。大型發動機現已上市 - 如果您現在從任何主要發動機供應商處訂購發動機，則可在 26 日交貨。

So we've been struggling with that. It's delayed some of our data center deliveries. That said, you'll start to see some data center deliveries in the late first quarter of '25 and then into the second quarter. So we're there's a big pig in the python, and we continue to grow our backlog, and we'll start to see some deliveries next year, and it will become more meaningful.

所以我們一直在努力解決這個問題。我們的一些資料中心的交付延遲了。也就是說，您將在 25 年第一季末開始看到一些資料中心交付，然後進入第二季。所以我們的蟒蛇裡有一頭大豬，我們繼續增加積壓，明年我們將開始看到一些交付，這將變得更有意義。

That said, the backlog is -- I want to just throw out a number, it's hundreds of millions of dollars, and that's up from kind of $50 million a few years ago. So we continue to have greater than 1 book-to-bill. It's continuing to go well. We're getting some new customers in the data center world. I would also tell you that our rental business is doing really well.

也就是說，積壓的訂單是——我只想給出一個數字，它是數億美元，比幾年前的 5000 萬美元有所增加。因此，我們的訂單出貨量仍然大於 1。它繼續進展順利。我們在資料中心領域獲得了一些新客戶。我還要告訴你，我們的租賃業務做得非常好。

Christian, you want to share some color on just what we're seeing on rental?

克里斯蒂安，您想分享一些我們在租賃中看到的情況嗎？

Yes. I mean, obviously, it was a very busy hurricane season for us. And so we were chasing storms, helping the box stores keep running and the rental backup power business was quite strong. So again, we don't really like hurricanes. But as David has commented before, we have a small slight hedge.

是的。我的意思是，顯然，這對我們來說是一個非常繁忙的颶風季節。因此，我們正在追逐風暴，並幫助盒子店保持運營，租賃備用電源業務也相當強勁。再說一遍，我們真的不喜歡颶風。但正如大衛之前評論的那樣，我們有一個小小的對沖。

So the rental business had a good quarter on the back of a heavy storm season.

因此，在暴風雨季節過後，租賃業務的季度表現良好。

And Ben, we're investing in that. You may have seen our CapEx tick up a little here at the end of the year. And we're adding to our rental fleet, frankly, as we look at the demand for power, it continues to go up. And just to be clear, when we do backup power, we're talking big industrial scale. We're not talking the smaller residential 25 KW units, we're talking 500 KW to 2-Meg-type thing.

本，我們正在對此進行投資。您可能已經看到我們的資本支出在今年年底有所上升。坦白說，我們正在增加我們的租賃車隊，當我們考慮電力需求時，它會繼續上升。需要明確的是，當我們討論備用電源時，我們談論的是大工業規模。我們不是在談論較小的住宅 25 KW 機組，而是在談論 500 KW 至 2-Meg 類型的設備。

So that business continues to grow. We're going to continue to invest in it with our normal capital discipline.

從而使業務不斷成長。我們將按照正常的資本紀律繼續對其進行投資。

Right. Okay. That's helpful. And if I could go back to the Marine side. Maybe similar but not exactly like Greg's question, one of the things that we've seen lately, and Christian, you sort of touched on this earlier, is that the crack spread of the refineries have narrowed.

正確的。好的。這很有幫助。如果我能回到海軍陸戰隊那邊就好了。也許與格雷格的問題類似，但不完全一樣，這是我們最近看到的一件事，克里斯蒂安，你之前提到過這一點，那就是煉油廠的裂解價差已經縮小。

And I don't know if it's seasonality or what. But is there a connection between the crack spreads in your business? Like do you want big crack spreads in that incentivize the movement of freight? Or is it not as direct as that?

而且不知道是季節性還是什麼。但您的業務中的裂解價差之間是否存在關聯？例如你想要大的裂解價差來刺激貨運嗎？或者說沒有那麼直接？

I think I'll answer this simply, when crack spreads are good, our major refining customers are extremely happy. They are trying to throughput as much as they possibly can. Not just the big global integrated refiners, but even some of the smaller regional refiners, we tend to see their throughput go up as they supply the market. So generally, high crack spreads have historically been a very good thing for us as well as the ability to move our rates in a good crack spread environment.

我想我會簡單地回答這個問題，當裂解價差良好時，我們的主要煉油客戶會非常高興。他們正在嘗試盡可能多地吞吐量。不僅是大型全球綜合煉油廠，甚至一些規模較小的區域煉油廠，我們也傾向於看到它們的吞吐量隨著供應市場而增加。因此，總的來說，高裂解價差歷來對我們來說是一件非常好的事情，並且能夠在良好的裂解價差環境中調整我們的利率。

That said, we care a lot about just refinery utilization. When you're on the supply side of taking feedstocks in or moving finished product out, what we really probably care about at the end of the day is the utilization of refineries and how much the liquids are transacting. They are all connected, but we do typically enjoy high crack spread environments. I think you're coming off some pretty healthy on highs in the crack spread world. And today, I think historical -- if you look at the crack spread today, even though it's down, it's still good versus historical crack spreads.

也就是說，我們非常關心煉油廠的利用率。當您在供應方面接收原料或將成品運出時，我們真正關心的可能是煉油廠的利用率以及液體的交易量。它們都是相互關聯的，但我們通常確實喜歡高裂紋擴展環境。我認為你在裂解價差世界的高點上表現得相當健康。今天，我認為歷史性的——如果你看看今天的裂解價差，即使它下降了，它仍然比歷史裂解價差好。

And keep in mind, chemicals -- the chemical market is about 60% of our inland revenues driven by the chemical manufacturers. So while we like high crack spreads, we're paying very close attention to GDP. We're paying very close attention to the economy. Those are the things that drive the chemical margins. And again, not spiking a football, but we do see chemicals a little better in Q4, and we'll continue to watch that closely.

請記住，化學品——化學品市場約占我們內陸收入的 60%，由化學品製造商推動。因此，雖然我們喜歡高裂解價差，但我們非常密切關注 GDP。我們非常密切關注經濟。這些都是推動化學利潤的因素。再說一遍，不是扣球，但我們確實看到第四季度化學物質有所好轉，我們將繼續密切關注。

What we are hearing from our chemical customers is the strength of their US operations versus their European assets or Asian assets or Middle Eastern assets.

我們從化學客戶那裡聽到的是他們的美國業務相對於歐洲資產、亞洲資產或中東資產的實力。

And so I think the thematic -- the theme we've always talked about is the economic development in the Gulf Coast with a good workforce and a stable workforce and the billions of dollars have been invested in the chemical manufacturing industry in the Gulf of Mexico. We are a direct beneficiary of that. And what we're hearing consistently from our chemical customers is that their US assets are outperforming their global assets. And so we think we're beginning to see a little bit of volumes come back there that feels pretty good.

所以我認為主題 - 我們一直在談論的主​​題是墨西哥灣沿岸的經濟發展，擁有良好的勞動力和穩定的勞動力，並且數十億美元已投資於墨西哥灣的化學製造業。我們是其中的直接受益者。我們從化學客戶不斷聽到的是，他們的美國資產表現優於全球資產。因此，我們認為我們開始看到一些交易量回到那裡，感覺非常好。

Greg Wasikowski, Webber Research & Advisory.

Greg Wasikowski，韋伯研究與諮詢。

You probably get this question a lot, but I just want to touch on the free cash flow. Obviously, there's a lot of it. Other than share buybacks, is there anywhere to deploy that cash within the business itself? Any specific direct growth opportunities out there in inland, coastal or B&S?

您可能經常被問到這個問題，但我只想談談自由現金流。顯然，有很多。除了股票回購之外，還有其他地方可以在企業內部部署這些現金嗎？內陸、沿海或 B&S 有什麼具體的直接成長機會嗎？

Raj here. We're going to see a lot of good free cash flow generation. I mean this year is going to be very strong $300 million, $350 million of free cash flow. You've seen us buy back stock, I mean, year-to-date, we've done about 53% of our free cash flow has been directed -- allocated to stock buyback. We've always balanced that with investments.

拉吉在這裡。我們將看到大量良好的自由現金流產生。我的意思是，今年的自由現金流將非常強勁，達到 3 億美元、3.5 億美元。你已經看到我們回購股票，我的意思是，今年到目前為止，我們已經將大約 53% 的自由現金流用於股票回購。我們始終將其與投資相平衡。

David mentioned our investments into the power generation rental business, very strong returns. We're very disciplined when we look at ROIC. We've got a very good framework that allows us to direct our investment decisions.

大衛提到我們對發電租賃業務的投資，回報非常豐厚。當我們觀察投資報酬率時，我們非常自律。我們有一個非常好的框架，使我們能夠指導我們的投資決策。

So you should see us continue to balance that. You've also seen in this quarter, we paid down some relatively higher cost debt that puts us in a very strong position from a balance sheet perspective. So as we've always said, we look at inland investments, we look at stuff that we want to do around power generation with -- in the KDS side, on the Distribution and Service side, you should see us do some tuck-in type investments that we've always talked about. So overall, it's hard to predict acquisitions, but we like our stock. We've been doing soft buybacks.

所以你應該看到我們繼續平衡這一點。您還看到，在本季度，我們償還了一些成本相對較高的債務，從資產負債表的角度來看，這使我們處於非常有利的地位。因此，正如我們一直在說的，我們著眼於內陸投資，我們著眼於我們想要圍繞發電做的事情——在 KDS 方面，在配電和服務方面，你應該看到我們做了一些投入我們一直在談論的類型投資。總的來說，很難預測收購，但我們喜歡我們的股票。我們一直在進行軟回購。

I think you should see us continue to do that going forward.

我認為您應該看到我們繼續這樣做。

Yes. I would also add, Greg, just more from a longer-term standpoint, our CapEx is elevated this year and a little bit last year and maybe a little bit next year because of the maintenance bubble that we've talked about, both in inland and offshore. As that tempers, you'll see our free cash flow go up.

是的。我還想補充一點，格雷格，從更長遠的角度來看，我們的資本支出今年有所提高，去年有所提高，明年可能會有所提高，因為我們已經討論過在內陸地區的維護泡沫和近海。隨著這種情況的緩和，你會看到我們的自由現金流增加。

We are always open to acquisitions, but as Raj said quite plainly, we have a very disciplined approach it's always about being able to earn our return on invested capital. We would love to do inland acquisition. That's our bread and butter. We're quite good at integrating those and adding customer service when we do it.

我們始終對收購持開放態度，但正如 Raj 所言，我們採取非常嚴格的方法，始終以能夠賺取投資資本回報為目標。我們很樂意進行內陸收購。這就是我們的麵包和黃油。我們非常擅長整合這些並在這樣做時添加客戶服務。

So that's always our preference. But given the inland market is pretty good right now, we -- getting a meaningful transaction and a reasonable price is probably lower you may see us do a little more in power generation, but it's not going to be company betting type stuff. It would be more a little vertical integration here or there with some bolt-ons. We're always open to it. We're always looking at it.

所以這始終是我們的偏好。但鑑於目前內陸市場相當不錯，我們——獲得有意義的交易和合理的價格可能會更低，你可能會看到我們在發電方面做得更多一些，但這不會是公司賭博類型的事情。這將是更多的垂直整合，這裡或那裡有一些附加元件。我們始終對此持開放態度。我們一直在關注它。

We probably look at a dozen acquisitions a quarter, but you don't see us doing a lot because we do keep that discipline. But look, the good news is we've got the cash flow to do the right things in the absence of good investments, we'll buy the best barge company that we know about there, which is Kirby stock.

我們可能每季都會進行十幾次收購，但你看不到我們做了很多事情，因為我們確實遵守了這項紀律。但是看，好消息是我們有現金流在缺乏良好投資的情況下做正確的事情，我們將購買我們所知道的最好的駁船公司，即柯比股票。

Got it. Awesome. And then speaking of the cycle, David, I'm curious, where is the market right now on the barge maintenance cycle? I'm assuming that it hasn't reached peak yet, and it's presumably next year. What are you expecting in terms of market impact when [indiscernible]?

知道了。驚人的。然後說到週期，大衛，我很好奇，現在駁船維護週期的市場在哪裡？我認為它還沒有達到頂峰，大概是明年。您對市場影響有何期望[音頻不清晰]？

I'm going to give that to Christian because Christian lives it every day.

我要把它交給克里斯蒂安，因為克里斯蒂安每天都在生活。

Yes. Thanks, Greg. Regarding the maintenance bubble that we referenced over the '24 and '25, you'll see 47% of the inland tank barge industry has to go through its COI renewal, certificate of inspection. And so 2024, probably really the peak of that, but 2025 is not far behind. So both years have very heavy maintenance cycles for the industry.

是的。謝謝，格雷格。關於我們在 24 世紀和 25 世紀提到的維護泡沫，您會發現 47% 的內陸油罐駁船產業必須完成 COI 更新（即檢驗證書）。所以 2024 年，可能真的是高峰期，但 2025 年也不遠了。因此，這兩年該產業的維護週期非常長。

And again, according to my math, it's about 47% of the tank barges, we'll have to go through their COI. So the maintenance bubble is still there. The industry is still progressing through it and it will continue to be a factor for supply and demand.

再說一遍，根據我的計算，大約有 47% 的油罐駁船，我們必須審查他們的 COI。所以維護泡沫仍然存在。該行業仍在不斷進步，並將繼續成為影響供需的因素。

Ken Hoexter, Bank of America.

肯‧霍克斯特，美國銀行。

And I agree, Dave, with your answer on a few more years of the few hundred basis points. Hopefully, that continues on the inland. Jumping over to coastal. Given the move to the mid-teens margins, was that with the capacity pulled out? I know, Christian, you were just talking about the huge run-up in the surveys.

戴夫，我同意你對幾百個基點的幾年的回答。希望這種情況在內陸地區繼續下去。跳躍到沿海。考慮到利潤率已經達到了十幾歲左右，這是否是因為產能被取消了？我知道，克里斯蒂安，你剛剛談論了調查的大幅增長。

I think you were just talking about the inland side there, right, because we've got a huge also pullout for coastal, right? And so given the move to mid teens, where should we see that one run to, Dave, or Chris?

我想你只是在談論那裡的內陸地區，對吧，因為我們也有一個巨大的沿海撤軍，對吧？因此，考慮到已經到了十幾歲，我們應該看到一個人跑向哪裡，戴夫還是克里斯？

Yes. I'll start, and Christian can add some color. Look, on the offshore side, there's a 30-month shipyard cycle. So every 30 months, you got to bring these units in for pretty expensive shipyards. And so we're going to see it starting in the fourth quarter and carrying over into the first quarter a little bit next year for our coastal fleet.

是的。我先開始，克里斯蒂安可以添加一些色彩。看，在近海方面，造船廠的週期為 30 個月。因此，每隔 30 個月，您就必須將這些設備運送到相當昂貴的造船廠。因此，我們將看到它從第四季度開始，並為我們的沿海船隊延續到明年第一季。

So that's going to impact the fourth quarter quite a bit in terms of sequential margins. That said, if you look at year-over-year full-year average, we think coastal margin should be up 300 basis points in '25 versus '24 on a full year average.

因此，這將對第四季度的連續利潤率產生相當大的影響。也就是說，如果你看一下全年平均水平，我們認為 25 年沿海利潤率的全年平均水平應該比 24 年高出 300 個基點。

Chris, you can add some color on what you're seeing in that market and also the newbuild side of it.

克里斯，您可以為您在該市場以及新建方面看到的情況添加一些色彩。

Yes. I think I'll begin with context that our offshore fleet is 100% termed up today as we sit on this conference call. The supply and demand dynamic is very good. We see no new construction. If a player would want to add some tonnage to the market, it would not deliver until 2028.

是的。我想我首先要介紹一下背景：今天我們參加本次電話會議時，我們的海上船隊已經 100% 完工。供需動態非常好。我們沒有看到新的建設。如果玩家想要為市場增加一些噸位，則要到 2028 年才能交付。

It's a very positive dynamic. Our rate -- at the level of rate that we're able to gain here in recent quarters year-over-year, our term business is up in the realm of 25% to 28% on term rate increases. And in the spot, year-over-year, we pushed rates 11% to 13%. So we see a lot of momentum, a lot of demand and not a lot of supply. So the coastal fundamentals are set up very nicely for a long run, I think.

這是一個非常積極的動態。我們的利率—以我們最近幾季能夠獲得的利率水平，我們的定期業務利率增加了 25% 到 28%。與去年同期相比，我們將現貨利率提高了 11% 至 13%。因此，我們看到了很大的動力、很大的需求，但供給卻很少。因此，我認為，從長遠來看，沿海地區的基本面已經建立得非常好。

Yes. Christian was telling me earlier, if somebody wanted to order a new unit, you wouldn't see it to what, '28?

是的。克里斯蒂安早些時候告訴我，如果有人想訂購一個新設備，你不會看到它是什麼，'28？

Yes sir, 2028.

是的，先生，2028 年。

We're really excited about coastal. As you know, Ken, you've followed us for a long time. It was pretty brutal on us for a number of years, and it's good to start getting back and start earning that capital back that we've deployed.

我們對沿海地區感到非常興奮。正如你所知，肯，你已經關注我們很長時間了。多年來，這對我們來說是相當殘酷的，現在開始回歸並開始賺取我們已經部署的資本是件好事。

I'm just not used to seeing the double-digit (inaudible) partners, but I'm sorry, what was the comment there about fourth quarter on margins at coastal. We do see those seasonal pullback or --

我只是不習慣看到兩位數（聽不清楚）的合作夥伴，但我很抱歉，關於第四季度沿海利潤率的評論是什麼。我們確實看到了季節性回調或--

Yes, yes, fairly having been pulled back. We were mid-teens in the third quarter. We'll probably be mid- to high single digits in the fourth quarter because some of these big units, they get -- I can't give you the dollar per day number, but it's tens of twenties of thousands of dollars, and you get a few of those big units in you still have a cost of -- we keep the crews. The crews help out in the maintenance process. We still have a bunch of supplies.

是的，是的，相當地被拉回來了。第三季我們才十幾歲。我們在第四季度可能會達到中高個位數，因為其中一些大型單位，他們得到 - 我無法給你每天的美元數字，但它是幾十萬美元，而且你獲得一些這樣的大單位仍然需要付出代價——我們留住工作人員。工作人員在維護過程中提供協助。我們還有大量物資。

We have some maintenance expense that gets expensed not capitalized. So when you put all that together, that pulls down the margins when -- especially when you have some of these big units, hit the shipyard. So again, we focus on the full year average. And Ken, you're going to that continue to go up. It's a very tight market right now.

我們有一些維護費用被支出而不是資本化。因此，當你把所有這些放在一起時，特別是當你擁有一些大型設備進入造船廠時，就會降低利潤。因此，我們再次關注全年平均值。肯，你會繼續上升。現在市場非常緊張。

I think in any given day, we're high-90s in terms of utility.

我認為在任何一天，我們的實用性都處於 90 多歲的水平。

No I only asked, because I had 6%. It sounds like it's even better than that far pullback. You sound like you were saying even higher. So Christian, is there a war of bet between inland and coastal who gets to 25%, 30% first?

不，我只是問，因為我有 6%。聽起來比那麼遠的回調還要好。聽起來你說得更高了。那麼Christian，內陸和沿海之間是否存在一場賭注之戰，誰先拿到25%、30%？

There's a healthy level of competition around here. It gets us out of bed in the morning.

這裡存在著健康的競爭。它讓我們早上起床。

All right. So on the inland contracts accelerated back to high single digit from mid-single digit, I guess thoughts heading into the 4Q mid-season, and I know you talked a little bit about this, the state of refined demand tariffs.

好的。因此，內陸合約從中個位數加速回到高個位數，我想進入第四季度中期的想法，我知道你談到了這一點，即精細需求關稅的狀態。

I'm thinking about what goes on here or given the move to maybe if we could change of administration, more drilling, does that enhance lower nat gas prices and maybe even boost production going forward?

我正在考慮這裡發生的事情，或者考慮到如果我們可以改變管理，進行更多鑽探，這是否會降低天然氣價格，甚至可能提高未來的產量？

Yes. I think lower natural gas prices would boost chemical production or certainly make it even better for our US-based -- our global chemical customers with big US facilities natural gas is a key input. So the lower natural gas price is good. It's also good for our e-frac business.

是的。我認為較低的天然氣價格將促進化學品生產，或者肯定會讓我們在美國的全球化學品客戶擁有大型美國設施的情況變得更好，天然氣是關鍵投入。因此，天然氣價格較低是件好事。這對我們的電子壓裂業務也有好處。

But lower oil prices, as we've talked a little bit earlier the price deck, particularly with crack spreads and stuff gets a little wonky, the higher or the lower the oil price goes. So it's hard to say, but natural gas is probably the largest input to the chemical space. And so that could be a positive.

但油價下跌，正如我們之前討論過的價格平台，特別是裂解價差和東西變得有點不穩定，油價越高或越低。所以很難說，但天然氣可能是化學領域最大的輸入。所以這可能是積極的。

It's certainly a big input for our e-frac business. Oh, by the way, in power gen, we're building a lot of gas what we call prime power. So that's people that will take our natural gas power equipment and make prime power to put in the grid. So we're seeing that grow. We've picked up an order from somebody that's doing that just this quarter.

這對我們的電子壓裂業務來說無疑是一個巨大的投入。哦，順便說一下，在發電領域，我們正在製造大量的天然氣，我們稱之為主要電力。因此，人們將使用我們的天然氣發電設備並生產主要電力並投入電網。所以我們看到這種成長。我們已經收到了本季正在做這件事的某人的訂單。

So it's interesting and lower natural gas prices helps that whole model in terms of prime power and using our natural gas recip product to generate it.

因此，有趣的是，較低的天然氣價格在主要電力方面有助於整個模型，並使用我們的天然氣配方產品來發電。

And I'm sorry, your thoughts into the bid season?

抱歉，您對申辦季有何看法？

I'm sorry, the bid -- fourth-quarter renewals?

抱歉，報價——第四季續約？

Yes.

是的。

I'll let Chris talk about it. But we can't give you the price that we're expecting, but it should be pretty good.

我會讓克里斯談談。但我們不能給你我們期望的價格，但應該是相當不錯的。

Yes. No, Ken, we're excited about our fourth quarter term renewals. Again, you'll see a lot of that benefit next year, but they're going very well. We've had a really good year. Operationally, the team has executed at a very high level.

是的。不，肯，我們對第四季的任期續約感到興奮。同樣，明年您會看到很多好處，而且進展順利。我們度過了非常美好的一年。在營運方面，該團隊的執行水準非常高。

Our safety record is incredible. And as of today, our customers are very, very happy and we're being rewarded in Q4 for our hard work. And again, we're positive about it.

我們的安全記錄令人難以置信。截至今天，我們的客戶非常非常高興，我們的辛勤工作在第四季度得到了回報。再說一遍，我們對此持正面態度。

High single digits, low double digits, mid-teens, 20%?

高個位數、低兩位數、十幾歲左右、20%？

Yes, we're in favor of all that. It will be good. Ken, it will be good.

是的，我們贊成這一切。會很好的。肯，會好的。

Scott Group, Wolfe Research.

斯科特集團，沃爾夫研究。

We've got weather delays and maintenance and all that. But when I look just like tonnages, inland tonnage is down 15% just two years ago. I think you're talking about revenue down a little bit sequentially. How much of this, if any, would you say is a demand issue?

我們有天氣延誤和維護等等。但當我看噸位時，內陸噸位在兩年前就下降了 15%。我認為你正在談論收入連續下降一點。您認為其中有多少（如果有的話）是需求問題？

Yes. I'll let Christian answer that.

是的。我會讓克里斯蒂安來回答這個問題。

Yes. So you're thinking about ton miles in the past periods you're talking about versus today, there's been some sort of fundamental demand change in some trade lanes. One is the crude oil barrel coming out of the Utica, which is up the Ohio River, quite a distance, a lot of ton miles. That Utica barrel tends to come and go. A lot of that shipping has slowed down in the crude oil complex.

是的。因此，您正在考慮過去與今天相比的噸英里數，某些貿易航線出現了某種根本性的需求變化。其中之一是從尤蒂卡出來的原油桶，它位於俄亥俄河上游，距離很遠，還有許多噸英里。尤蒂卡的那個桶子往往來來去去。原油綜合體的大部分運輸已經放緩。

And so that impacts our ton miles and the industry's ton miles.

因此，這會影響我們的噸英里和行業的噸英里。

The other piece of the business that can whip around ton miles is our fertilizer business. That's business -- large volume business that's loaded in the Gulf of Mexico and taken up into the Heartland, big toes, big volumes. And the fertilizer business was has been very quiet in Q3. We're starting to see a resurgence in Q4. But those are mainly the two items that have whipped around the ton miles that I think you're referring to.

另一項可以快速發展的業務是我們的化肥業務。這就是生意——在墨西哥灣裝載貨物並運往中心地帶的大批量業務，大腳趾，大批量。第三季化肥業務非常平靜。我們開始看到第四季的復甦。但我認為您所指的主要是這兩項已經行駛了數噸英里的項目。

Again, we've absorbed those barges in other parts of the business. Fertilizer is coming back nicely. So I think those are probably the historical trends you see are most likely long-haul crude oil and long-haul fertilizer.

我們再次將這些駁船吸收到業務的其他部分。肥料恢復得很好。所以我認為這些可能是你看到的歷史趨勢，很可能是長途原油和長途化肥。

Okay. And then can you just give us an update, where are we on sort of your perspective industry orders, build activity on the inland side? Would you think we see more or less new construction '25 relative to '24?

好的。然後您能否提供我們最新情況，您認為我們的產業訂單、內陸建設活動處於什麼位置？您認為相對於 24 年我們會看到更多或更少的新建築 '25 嗎？

Well, the order book we see pretty clearly in '24, I think David referenced earlier, it's about 40-some-odd barges, of which only 20-some-odd have been delivered. Hard to see deeply into the order book next year, but we really don't see anything different.

嗯，我們在 24 年看到的訂單簿非常清楚，我想 David 之前提到過，大約有 40 多艘駁船，其中只有 20 多艘已經交付。很難深入了解明年的訂單簿，但我們確實沒有看到任何不同。

I'll give you a personal observation, having been around the business for 27 years now. I will tell you the status of the shipyard industry, those shipyards that are focused and have the ability to build a good tank barge is diminished versus some of our past cycles. A lot of that has been driven by still emerging in a way from the COVID realities, the inflationary issues around labor, in particular, as well as other inputs in the shipyard.

我在這個行業已經 27 年了，我將向您提供個人觀察。我會告訴你造船廠產業的現狀，與我們過去的一些週期相比，那些專注並有能力建造優質油罐駁船的造船廠正在減少。這在很大程度上是由新冠疫情現實、特別是圍繞勞動力的通膨問題以及造船廠的其他投入所造成的。

And so I think there's also a large number of hopper barges being built to replace on the dry cargo side of the business. Those hopper barges compete for the capacity for construction with tank barges. I think we see -- if you look in the windshield, I don't see a whole lot of new construction. I think we see consistent replacement construction. I don't think I see anybody speculatively building into the market.

因此，我認為也建造了大量的漏斗駁船來取代乾貨業務。這些底駁船與油罐駁船爭奪建造能力。我想我們看到——如果你看擋風玻璃，我看不到很多新建築。我認為我們看到了一致的替換結構。我認為我沒有看到任何人以投機方式進入市場。

And I'll give you a really interesting anecdote. We price out barges periodically. And interestingly, in our most recent set of conversations, the price of an inland 30,000 6-pound tank barge went up from the prior quarter. So this was a $4.5 million quote for a clean 36-pound barge. Even though the price of steel, plate steel has abated a little bit, which is something we watch very closely that is tied to tank barge pricing.

我會給你一個非常有趣的軼事。我們定期對駁船進行定價。有趣的是，在我們最近的一組對話中，一艘內陸 30,000 艘 6 磅油罐駁船的價格較上一季上漲。因此，一艘乾淨的 36 磅駁船的報價為 450 萬美元。儘管鋼材、鋼板的價格略有下降，這是我們密切關注的，與油罐駁船的定價有關。

The shipyard commented that due to labor, due to all the other inputs, due to the inflationary price of paint, due to all of those other factors that despite a slight change in abatement in the price of steel, the price of the barge actually went up.

船廠評論說，由於勞動力，由於所有其他投入，由於油漆價格上漲，由於所有其他因素，儘管鋼材價格略有下降，但駁船的價格實際上還是上漲了。

So I think you'll continue to see discipline around tank barge new construction. I know our shareholders probably wouldn't want us building barges at $4.5 million in order to get a return on those, you're going to have to have $13,000, $14,000 a day toes. The market is not there yet. So I think we see just some rational behavior around it, and the shipyards still really are constrained.

因此，我認為您將繼續看到圍繞油罐駁船新建的紀律。我知道我們的股東可能不希望我們為了獲得回報而以 450 萬美元建造駁船，你每天必須有 13,000 美元、14,000 美元的收入。市場還沒到。所以我認為我們看到的只是一些理性的行為，而造船廠仍然確實受到限制。

Okay. And then just lastly, if I can. You made a comment earlier, you'd be disappointed this cycle if inland didn't get to a 27% margin, I think you said. What's the answer? You'd be disappointed if Coastal didn't get to a blank.

好的。最後，如果可以的話。您早些時候發表過評論，我想您說過，如果內陸地區沒有達到 27% 的利潤率，您會在這個週期感到失望。答案是什麼？如果 Coastal 沒有達到空白，你會感到失望。

Yes. I'd say it's 20%. I think our prior peak was about 15%, 16%, which we've already bumped up against. So we keep -- there was a little question earlier about the competition between inland and coastal, and it does exist and the coastal guys are pushing hard. I think both Christian and I'd be disappointed if we don't cross 20% in the coastal margins.

是的。我想說是20%。我認為我們之前的峰值約為 15%、16%，我們已經達到了這一水平。所以我們繼續下去——早些時候有一個關於內陸和沿海之間競爭的小問題，它確實存在，而且沿海的人正在努力推動。我認為如果我們在沿海邊緣地區沒有跨越 20%，克里斯蒂安和我都會感到失望。

It's a good time for them.

這對他們來說是個好時機。

But you do know that there's a little bit of a difference in the model. Coastal, the barge and the towboat or the tugboat are a pair, whereas in inland, you can push multiple barges with a single towboat. So there's a little advantage that inland has. But that said, our coastal guys are out there pushing hard.

但您確實知道模型存在一點差異。沿海地區，駁船和拖船或拖船是一對，而在內陸地區，可以用一艘拖船推動多艘駁船。所以內陸有一點優勢。但話雖如此，我們沿海的人們正在努力奮鬥。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn it back to Kurt Niemietz for closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。現在我想請 Kurt Niemietz 發表閉幕詞。

Thank you, Jacinda, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today. As always, if there's any follow-up questions, reach out to me directly throughout the day.

謝謝傑辛達，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。像往常一樣，如果有任何後續問題，請全天直接與我聯繫。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的會議。這確實結束了該程式。您現在可以斷開連線。