晶科能源 (JKS) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by for JinkoSolar Holding Co. Ltd. First Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host for today's call, Ms. Stella Wang, JinkoSolar's Investor Relations. Please proceed.

女士、先生們，大家好，感謝大家出席晶科能源控股有限公司2024年第一季獲利電話會議。 （操作員說明）提醒一下，今天的電話會議正在錄音。現在我想將會議轉交給今天電話會議的主持人，晶科能源投資者關係部的 Stella Wang 女士。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today for JinkoSolar's First Quarter 2024 earnings conference call. The company's results were released earlier today and available on the company's IR website at www.jinkosolar.com as well as on Newswire services. We have also provided a supplemental presentation for today's earnings call, which can also be found on the IR website.

謝謝你，接線生。感謝大家今天參加我們晶科能源 2024 年第一季財報電話會議。該公司的業績於今天稍早發布，並可在該公司的投資者關係網站 www.jinkosolar.com 以及 Newswire 服務上查閱。我們也為今天的財報電話會議提供了補充演示文稿，您也可以在 IR 網站上找到該演示文稿。

On the call today from JinkoSolar are Mr. Xiande, Chairman and CEO of JinkoSolar Holding Company Limited; Mr. Gener Miao, CMO of JinkoSolar Company Limited; Mr. Pan Li, CFO of JinkoSolar Holding Company Limited; and Mr. Charlie Cao, CFO of JinkoSolar Company Limited. Mr. Li will discuss JinkoSolar's business operations and the company highlights followed by Mr. Miao, who will talk about the sales and marketing. And then Mr. Pan Li, who will go through the financials. We will be available to answer your questions during the Q&A session that follows.

今天接聽晶科能源電話的是晶科能源控股有限公司董事長兼執行長賢德先生；苗根二先生，晶科能源有限公司首席行銷長；潘力先生，晶科能源控股有限公司財務長；以及晶科能源有限公司財務長曹查理先生。李先生將討論晶科能源的業務運作和公司亮點，隨後苗先生將討論銷售和行銷。然後是潘李先生，他將負責財務方面的工作。我們將在接下來的問答環節回答您的問題。

Please note that today's discussion will contain forward-looking statements made under the safe harbor provision of the U.S. Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements involve inherent risks and uncertainties. As such, our future results may be materially different from the views expressed today. Further information regarding this and other risks is included in JinkoSolar's public filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. JinkoSolar does not assume any obligation to update any forward-looking statements, except as required under the applicable law.

請注意，今天的討論將包含根據 1995 年美國私人證券訴訟改革法案的安全港條款做出的前瞻性陳述。因此，我們未來的結果可能與今天表達的觀點大不相同。有關此風險和其他風險的更多資訊包含在晶科能源向美國證券交易委員會提交的公開文件中。除適用法律要求外，晶科能源不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

It's now my pleasure to introduce Mr. Xiande, Chairman and CEO of JinkoSolar Holding. Mr. Li will speak in mandarin and our translate his comments into English. Please go ahead, Mr. Li.

現在我很高興向大家介紹晶科能源董事長兼執行長顯德先生。李先生將用普通話發言，我們將他的評論翻譯成英語。請李先生繼續。

[Interpreted] We are happy to announce that thanks to our advantages of N-type TOPCon technology, competitive products, global marketing and manufacturing layout of module shipments grew 53.3% year-over-year to nearly 20 gigawatts in the first quarter, ranking first in the industry. The proportion of N-type shipments increased to nearly 80% in the first quarter from approximately 70% in the fourth quarter last year, maintaining our leading position in the industry. Module prices continued to fall in the first quarter, while the industry average utilization rates declined sharply. We've maintained our leading utilization rate at high level. Over 70% of the modules were shipped to overseas markets in the first quarter, while proportion of shipments to Europe and the U.S. significantly increased sequentially. Gross margin was 11.9%, flat sequentially. Net income was USD 84.4 million, up 19.8x sequentially. Adjusted net income was USD 65.1 million, up 1.6% sequentially.

【解讀】我們很高興地宣布，憑藉N型TOPCon技術優勢、產品優勢，全球行銷及製造佈局一季度組件出貨量同比增長53.3%，接近20吉瓦，排名第一在行業中。 N型出貨量佔去年第四季約70%提升至第一季近80%，維持業界領先地位。第一季組件價格持續下跌，產業平均利用率大幅下滑。我們保持了領先的高水準利用率。第一季超過70%的組件發往海外市場，其中歐洲和美國的出貨比例較上季大幅提升。毛利率為 11.9%，與上一季持平。淨利潤為 8,440 萬美元，比上一季成長 19.8 倍。調整後淨利為 6,510 萬美元，季增 1.6%。

Newly added installations in China reached 45.7 gigawatts in the first quarter, an increase of 35.9% year-over-year. Module exports totaled 61.7 gigawatts, an increase of over 20% year-over-year. The PV industry remains one of the few sectors maintaining a higher growth rate, and we expect the global PV demand to grow approximately 25% to 30% in 2024. Coming into the second quarter, polysilicon prices continued to decline as flight expense demand. On the other hand, macroeconomic conditions push the commodity prices higher while increasing market demand drove prices of raw materials such as glass and film higher.

一季中國新增裝置45.7吉瓦，年增35.9%。組件出口總量61.7吉瓦，較去年成長超過20%。光電產業仍是少數維持較高成長速度的產業之一，我們預計2024年全球光電需求將成長約25%至30%。另一方面，宏觀經濟狀況推動大宗商品價格走高，而市場需求的增加則推動玻璃和薄膜等原物料價格走高。

All those factors combined to keep the module prices relatively stable at a low level. In the short term, the profitability of integrated solar companies is expected to come under pressure. Yet, this distinction in operating capabilities, performance of different companies will have larger difference. We expect that overall production capacity in other industry will shrink with the elimination of weaker players that like market competitiveness, sustainable production capabilities and the ability to regularly upgrade and iterate technology. Facing various external challenges, we will focus on enhancing our competitiveness, and we are confident to maintain relative advantages compared to our first tier peers.

所有這些因素結合在一起，使組件價格保持在較低水平相對穩定。短期內，整合太陽能企業的獲利能力預計將面臨壓力。然而，這種經營能力的區別，不同公司的表現會有較大的差異。我們預計，隨著市場競爭力、永續生產能力以及定期升級迭代技術能力等實力較弱的企業被淘汰，其他產業的整體產能將萎縮。面對各種外在挑戰，我們將著力提升競爭力，並有信心維持與第一線同行的相對優勢。

In the first quarter, since there is a changing market environment, we flexibly adjusted our sales strategies to better balance shipments and profitability, leveraging our global footprint and the competitive product, our order book visibility for 2024 currently exceeds 70%.

一季度，由於市場環境變化，我們靈活調整銷售策略，更好地平衡出貨量和獲利能力，憑藉全球佈局和產品競爭力，目前2024年訂單可見度超過70%。

This continued pressure along the industrial chain, we continue to deploy new technologies to improve the mass-producing efficiency of TOPCon cells and module output while reducing cost through initiatives such as optimization of supply chain and production process.

在產業鏈持續承壓的情況下，我們不斷部署新技術，提高TOPCon電池片量產效率和組件產量，同時透過優化供應鏈和生產流程等措施降低成本。

We are also accelerating the clearing out of our P-type capacity. Our N-type capacity is expected to exceed 90% of total capacity by the end of 2024, and we expect our advanced capacity structure to continue to lead the industry.

我們也在加快P型產能的清理。預計到2024年底，我們的N型產能將超過總產能的90%，我們預計我們先進的產能結構將繼續領先產業。

As a company with the largest overseas integrated capacity in the industry, we continuously work to expand the global industry chain of 1 gigawatt N-type module capacity in the U.S. has started production and another 1 gigawatt is expected to start production in the second quarter this year. This our advantage of global operation and long accumulated experience risk management, we are confident to respond to changes in international trade and continue to provide a premium products and services to our global clients.

身為業界海外綜合產能最大的公司，我們持續致力於拓展全球產業鏈，美國1吉瓦N型組件產能已投產，預計今年第二季將再投產1吉瓦組件年。憑藉我們的全球營運優勢和長期累積的風險管理經驗，我們有信心應對國際貿易的變化，並繼續為全球客戶提供優質的產品和服務。

According to the latest predictions by the International Energy Agency, IEA, solar PV and wind will account for 95% of global renewable expansion, benefiting from lower generation costs than both fossil and nonfossil fuel alternatives. By 2028, the share of wind and solar PV in global electricity generation will double to 25%. Solar PV still has enormous growth potential Meanwhile, declining cost of solar plus storage will continue to improve the economics of investing into PV storage projects and stimulate demand growth for storage projects. We are bullish that solar plus storage will become the major model for future growth in electricity generation and we are confident to continue to lead the industry with advanced technologies and premium high-efficiency products.

根據國際能源總署(IEA)的最新預測，太陽能光電和風能將佔全球再生能源擴張的95%，受益於比化石和非化石燃料替代品更低的發電成本。到2028年，風能和太陽能光電發電在全球發電中的份額將翻一番，達到25%。太陽能光電仍具有巨大的成長潛力，同時，太陽能+儲能成本的下降將持續提高投資光電儲能專案的經濟性，刺激儲能專案的需求成長。我們看好太陽能+儲能將成為未來發電成長的主要模式，並有信心繼續以先進技術和優質高效產品引領產業。

Before turning it over to Gener, I would like to go over our guidance for the second quarter and full year of 2024. By the end of 2024, we expect mass produce of N-type cell efficiency to reach 26.5%. We expect our annual production capacity for mono wafers, solar cells and solar modules to reach 120 -- 110 and 130 gigawatts, respectively, by the end of 2024. We expect module shipments to be between 24 to 26 gigawatts for the second quarter of 2024 and between 100 and 110 gigawatts for the full year 2024 with N-type modules accounting for nearly 90% of total module shipments.

在交給 Gener 之前，我想回顧一下我們對 2024 年第二季和全年的指導。我們預計到 2024 年底，單晶矽片、太陽能電池和太陽能組件的年產能將分別達到 120-110 和 130 吉瓦。 2024年全年出貨量在100至110吉瓦之間，其中N型組件佔組件總出貨量的近90%。

Thank you, Mr. Li. Total shipments were 21.9 gigawatts in the first quarter with module shipment accounting for over 90%, ranking first in the industry again. And with the stressful market prices in the first quarter, we flatly for adjusted our geographic mix. Over 70% of modules were shifted to overseas markets, especially to Asia Pacific and the emerging markets. Shipments for the U.S. were relatively stable sequentially, while shipments to Europe increased to nearly 20%, evidence of future inventories reduction.

謝謝李先生。一季總出貨量21.9吉瓦，組件出貨量佔比超過90%，再次位居產業第一。由於第一季市場價格緊張，我們斷然調整了地理組合。超過70%的組件轉移到海外市場，特別是亞太地區和新興市場。美國的出貨量較上季相對穩定，而歐洲的出貨量增加至近 20%，證明了未來庫存的減少。

On the demand side, the general trend for global low-carbon transformation was unchanged despite problems related to installation and connection in some regions and the positive issues in others. We continuously expect a relatively rapid growth in global demand in 2024. Our intensive sales network and the deeply rooted local customer service infrastructure will help us to respond to market shifts and adjust flexibly and timely. (inaudible) demand for more reliable, low-carbon and compliant PV products.

從需求端來看，全球低碳轉型的大趨勢沒有改變，部分地區有安裝接取問題，部分地區出現正面問題。我們持續預期2024年全球需求將較快成長。 （聽不清楚）對更可靠、低碳和合規的光電產品的需求。

Looking towards the full year, we expect the proportion of shipments to Europe and the U.S. to further increase compared to last year. Shipments of competitive high-efficiency N-type Tiger Neo modules accounted for nearly 80% overall -- far exceeding the industry average as the value of Tiger Neo is increasingly recognized by customers. In the European and emerging markets, the Tiger Neo penetration rate exceeds 90%. In terms of segment demand from distribution markets in China, Europe and Asia Pacific was strong during the first quarter. Closely following the market trend, we raised as a ratio of distribution to approximately 50% in the quarter.

展望全年，我們預期對歐洲和美國的出貨比例將比去年進一步增加。具競爭力的高效能N型Tiger Neo組件出貨量佔比接近80%，遠超行業平均水平，Tiger Neo的價值日益被客戶認可。在歐洲和新興市場，Tiger Neo滲透率超過90%。就中國、歐洲和亞太地區分銷市場的細分市場需求而言，第一季表現強勁。緊接著市場趨勢，本季我們將分配比例提高至 50% 左右。

We focus very strongly on building our brand regulation because an outstanding brand is key to gaining the long-term trust of our clients. Recently, we were recognized as the Tier 1 energy storage provider by Bloomberg New Energy Finance due to our outstanding products and the capabilities in energy storage, reflecting our commitment to providing safe and reliable energy storage solutions and recognition by customers for timely delivery and effective deployment capabilities. Besides, we received the AAA rating once again in the 2024 Q1 release of PV-Tech's ModuleTech bankability report, which demonstrates our leadership in manufacturing activity, reliable quality market share leadership, sound financial performance and technology innovation. With that, I will turn the call over to Pan.

我們非常注重建立品牌監管，因為卓越的品牌是獲得客戶長期信任的關鍵。近期，我們憑藉著出色的產品和儲能能力，被彭博新能源財經評為一級儲能提供商，體現了我們致力於提供安全可靠的儲能解決方案，及時交付、有效部署得到了客戶的認可能力。此外，我們在PV-Tech 2024年第一季發布的ModuleTech可融資性報告中再次獲得AAA評級，這表明我們在製造活動方面的領先地位、可靠的品質市場份額領先地位、良好的財務業績和技術創新。這樣，我就把電話轉給潘。

Thank you, Gener. We are pleased to report that our solar module shipment increased by about 53 percentage in the first quarter where solar modules price declined, we enhanced control over costs and expenses. Gross profit margin was flat and adjusted net income slightly improved sequentially. At the same time, thanks to our efforts in debt management, our net debt improved sequentially, leveraging our advantages in N-type technology and global sales and manufacturing network. We're very confident in our growth prospects and we'll continue to improve the efficiency of our working capital, achieving sustainable growth in operating cash flow and enhance our resilience to risks. Let me go into more details now.

謝謝你，將軍。我們很高興地報告，第一季我們的太陽能模組出貨量成長了約53%，太陽能模組價格下降，我們加強了對成本和費用的控制。毛利率持平，調整後淨利較上季略有改善。同時，由於我們在債務管理方面的努力，發揮我們在N型技術和全球銷售和製造網絡方面的優勢，我們的淨債務環比改善。我們對發展前景充滿信心，將持續提高營運資金效率，實現營運現金流的永續成長，增強抗風險能力。現在讓我詳細介紹一下。

Total revenues were $3.2 billion, down sequentially and slightly down year-over-year. The sequential decrease was mainly attributed to the decrease in the shipments of solar modules and year-over-year decreases was mainly attributed to the decrease in average selling price of solar modules. Gross margin was 11.9 percentage compared with 12.5 percentage in the fourth quarter last year. The decreases were mainly due to the decrease in average selling price of modules. Total operating expenses for $426 million, down 18 percentage sequentially. The sequential decrease was mainly due to the decrease in the shipments of solar modules and lower expense in relation to the segment of a dispute with one of our customers. Total operating expenses accounted for 13 percentage of total revenues compared with 11 in the fourth quarter and 12 in the first quarter of '23.

總收入為 32 億美元，季減，年比略有下降。環比下降主要是由於太陽能組件出貨量下降，年減主要是由於太陽能組件平均售價下降。毛利率為 11.9%，而去年第四季為 12.5%。下降的主要原因是組件平均售價下降。總營運費用為 4.26 億美元，比上一季下降 18%。環比下降主要是由於太陽能組件出貨量減少以及與我們的一位客戶發生糾紛的部分相關費用減少所致。總營運支出佔總收入的 13%，而 2023 年第四季為 11%，第一季為 12%。

Net income attributed to JinkoSolar Holding ordinary shareholders was about $84.4 million, up nearly 20x sequentially. Excluding the impact from a change in fair value of the note, a change in fair value of long-term investments and share-based compensation expenses, adjusted net income was about $ 65 million, slightly up sequentially. Moving to the balance sheet. At the end of the first quarter, our cash and cash equivalents were $ 2.44 billion compared with $2.69 billion in the fourth quarter of '23 and slightly improved from $1.48 billion in the first quarter of '23. AR turnover days were 100 days compared with 76 days in the fourth quarter and 95 days in the first quarter of last year. Inventory turnover days were 89 days compared with 57 days in the fourth quarter and 100 days in the first quarter of last year. At the end of the first quarter, total debt was $3.66 billion compared to $4.38 billion in the fourth quarter of '23. Net debt was $1.22 billion compared to $1.63 billion in the fourth quarter of '23, a continuous improvement in our debt structure. This concludes our prepared remarks. We're now happy to take your questions. Operator, please proceed.

歸屬於晶科能源普通股股東的淨利約8,440萬美元，較上一季成長近20倍。剔除票據公允價值變動、長期投資公允價值變動及股權激勵費用的影響，調整後淨利約6,500萬美元，較上季小幅成長。轉向資產負債表。截至第一季末，我們的現金和現金等價物為 24.4 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 26.9 億美元，比 23 年第一季的 14.8 億美元略有改善。 AR週轉天數為100天，而去年第四季為76天，去年第一季為95天。庫存週轉天數為89天，而去年第四季為57天，去年第一季為100天。截至第一季末，總負債為 36.6 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 43.8 億美元。淨債務為 12.2 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 16.3 億美元，我們的債務結構持續改善。我們準備好的演講到此結束。我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。接線員，請繼續。

(Operator Instructions) The first question comes from Brian Lee.

（操作員說明） 第一個問題來自 Brian Lee。

I know you guys are not the practice of providing specific margin and ASP guidance anymore. But just given kind of the fluctuations in the pricing environment, can you give us a sense, pricing was down? It seems like kind of down to like the low to mid-teens here, ASP per watt if we back out the wafer and the cell revenue in the quarter, should we expect more ASP degradation in modules embedded in the 2Q guide? And then what's sort of the margin cadence you expect off the results here in Q1? Should we expect 2Q to be up, down, flat? And then maybe back half views as well if there's more of a recovery there?

我知道你們不再提供具體保證金和平均售價指引。但考慮到定價環境的波動，你能給我們一種感覺，定價下降了嗎？如果我們取消本季的晶圓和電池收入，每瓦的平均售價似乎有點下降到十幾歲左右，我們是否應該預期第二季度指南中嵌入的模組的平均售價會出現更多下降？那麼您對第一季結果的預期利潤率是多少？我們是否應該預期第二季會上漲、下跌、持平？如果那裡有更多的復甦，也許也會支持一半的觀點？

Brian, this is Charlie. Yes, back to your questions. And the module price is down in the recent 3 quarters, and that's a fact. And we have different ratings, different arrangements, long term versus short term. If you are talking about Q2, the ASP on average, it's down a little bit. But the most important thing is we are improving the cost and trying our best. At the same time, we are adopting the relatively new technology materials. And on top of that, we are ramping up -- this year, our focus is the Shanxi Super factory, we're expecting to be fully operational in the second half year. And for the gross margin and profitability, we strongly believe in the first half of the year, this year, it's reached to the bottom. And for quarter-by-quarter, we expect the gross margin relatively stable for the second quarter versus Q1. And for the second half year, we expect more shipments particularly in the United States as well as in the European markets. And on top of that, we are in a very good position for the Middle East market. And it helps the gross margin. And so that's the answer -- in addition, we -- the industry is suffering the rate competitions, particularly for price, and we are expecting the capacities for the Tier 2, Tier 3 and even the capacity which are not able to be technology-competitive will be phased out throughout this year. This may well help the overall supply versus demand situation, particularly in the second half year.

布萊恩，這是查理。是的，回到你的問題。而且最近三個季度組件價格有所下降，這是事實。我們有不同的評級、不同的安排、長期與短期。如果你談論的是第二季度，平均售價會下降一點。但最重要的是我們正在改善成本並盡力而為。同時，我們正在採用相對較新的技術材料。最重要的是，我們正在加速——今年，我們的重點是山西超級工廠，我們預計將在下半年全面投入營運。對於毛利率和獲利能力，我們堅信今年上半年、今年已經觸底。從季度來看，我們預計第二季的毛利率與第一季相比相對穩定。對於下半年，我們預計出貨量將會增加，特別是在美國和歐洲市場。最重要的是，我們在中東市場處於非常有利的地位。這有助於提高毛利率。這就是答案——此外，我們——這個行業正在遭受費率競爭，特別是價格競爭，我們期待二級、三級的產能，甚至是無法成為技術的產能——競爭性的競爭將在今年內逐步取消。這很可能有助於改善整體供需狀況，尤其是下半年。

Okay. That's helpful. So if I summarize, I guess, it sounds like ASPs down a little bit more into 2Q and then margins stable in 2Q of the 1Q level. Are you actually seeing quoting activity? Or what's the outlook for pricing? I know you said shipment volumes and mix improved in the back half, but how about like-for-like ASPs? Are you actually seeing you said 70% of your '24 is already covered in backlog, it sounds like, what's the pricing dynamic you're seeing in the second half versus Q1 and Q2 where pricing is still going down?

好的。這很有幫助。因此，如果我總結一下，我想，聽起來第二季的平均售價會進一步下降，然後第二季的利潤率會穩定在第一季的水平。您實際上看到了報價活動嗎？或定價前景如何？我知道您說過下半年的出貨量和產品組合有所改善，但是同類平均售價又如何呢？您是否真的看到您所說的 24 年 70% 的訂單已經積壓，聽起來，您在下半年看到的定價動態與第一季和第二季的定價仍在下降相比是怎樣的？

Yes. For the pricing, Brian, for the pricing, we believe it will continue to follow the market, which we believe is already reaching the rock bottom, right, compared to the market prices versus the, let's say, industry, even the leading cost structures is -- most of the peers or the industry players are under the water right now. So that's why we believe the price is reaching out. However, when we look into the improvement of the cost structure wise, definitely, it does not goes as fast as the price force in the last 5, 6, even 8 months' time. That's why the market-wise, it will struggle at the beginning of the year, but we believe once the cost structure start to improve to reach the level of the ASPs and match the level of ASPs, we believe the company or even the whole industry, at least the leading competitive ones will keep their margin as healthy as possible. Hope that answers your question.

是的。對於定價，布萊恩，對於定價，我們相信它將繼續跟隨市場，與市場價格相比，比方說，行業，甚至領先的成本結構，我們認為市場已經觸底。者現在都陷入困境。這就是為什麼我們相信價格正在上漲。然而，當我們考慮成本結構的改善時，肯定不會像過去5個月、6個月甚至8個月的時間裡價格上漲那麼快。這就是為什麼從市場角度來看，它在年初會陷入困境，但我們相信，一旦成本結構開始改善，達到ASP的水平並與ASP的水平相匹配，我們相信公司甚至整個行業，至少領先的競爭者將盡可能保持健康的利潤率。希望這能回答你的問題。

Yes, absolutely. Very helpful. And then maybe last one for me, and I'll jump back in the queue. You also mentioned back half of the year, it sounds like you're positive on U.S. volume trends growing for you? I know this is pretty fresh, the inception of this AD/CVD potential investigation that was petitioned last week by some of the U.S. fliers. I know in the fall last year, you guys were deemed to not have been one of the companies dumping or countervailing. And so you weren't subject to any duties. It sounds like this petition is opening that entire case back potentially. So what are your thoughts on the latest trade policy update here given what happened last week? And then do you anticipate any -- or are you seeing any customer feedback right now that suggests there's more uncertainty for you as you move through the next few quarters? Just kind of how are you navigating it?

是的，一點沒錯。很有幫助。然後也許是我的最後一個，我會跳回隊列。您也提到今年下半年，聽起來您對美國銷售趨勢的成長持樂觀態度？我知道這是一項新鮮事，上週一些美國乘客請願進行了 AD/CVD 潛在調查。我知道去年秋天，你們被認為不是傾銷或反補貼的公司之一。所以你不需要承擔任何義務。聽起來這份請願書可能會重新審理整個案件。那麼，考慮到上週發生的事情，您對最新的貿易政策更新有何看法？然後，您是否預計會出現任何情況——或者您現在是否看到任何客戶回饋表明，在接下來的幾個季度中，您將面臨更多的不確定性？只是你如何駕馭它？

Well, it's still early to see what could be the result of this upcoming AD/CVD petitions. But definitely, from Jinko's perspective, we still prefer as a fair trade work, which could benefit not only the Jinko itself, but also the whole industry where we can drive that's what the whole industry has been doing in the last even 2 decades, right, to driving the LCOE of the PV energy more and more competitive, which can help the whole world become greener and more environmental-friendly and less carbon footprint. With trade tariff or the current geopolitical issue, definitely, it is a big challenge. It increased a lot of cost. But as a company side, we have no choice but to try our best to adapt towards the market or what the government wants. So that's why we are working very hard with our lawyers, with our customers, trying to find out the best solutions in the U.S. market. But right now, honestly speaking, it's still too early to see what could be the pros and cons for that right now. So we will -- we might need another, let's say, 3, even 6 months to see what could be the, let's say, upside and downside on that.

嗯，現在要了解即將到來的 AD/CVD 請願書的結果還為時過早。但肯定的是，從晶科的角度來看，我們還是更喜歡公平貿易的工作，這不僅可以使晶科本身受益，而且可以使整個行業受益，我們可以推動整個行業在過去甚至二十年裡一直在做的事情，對吧，推動光伏能源的LCOE越來越有競爭力，幫助整個世界變得更綠色、更環保、更少的碳足跡。無論是貿易關稅還是當前的地緣政治問題，這無疑是一個巨大的挑戰。增加了很多成本。但身為企業一方，我們別無選擇，只能盡力適應市場或政府的要求。這就是為什麼我們與我們的律師、我們的客戶一起努力尋找美國市場的最佳解決方案。但老實說，現在判斷這樣做的利弊還為時過早。因此，我們可能需要另外 3 個月甚至 6 個月的時間來看看這可能會帶來什麼好處和壞處。

Okay. Fair enough. Last one housekeeping for Charlie. I promise I'll pass it on after this. Charlie, what was D&A in the quarter? What was CapEx in the quarter? And then also, could you tell us what the percent of sales in the U.S. this quarter was and what U.S. ASP range was, dollar cents per watt in the quarter?

好的。很公平。查理的最後一次家事服務。我保證在這之後我會把它傳遞出去。 Charlie，本季的 D&A 是多少？本季的資本支出是多少？另外，您能否告訴我們本季美國的銷售百分比是多少，美國的平均售價範圍是多少，即本季每瓦美分嗎？

The U.S. shipment roughly 80%, 80% in total in terms of Q1 shipments. And revenue percentage will be higher because the prices were dramatically higher, right, if you look at the average market price. And for the total CapEx, we always share about it -- last year, we spent roughly [$20 billion] of the capacity expansion. And this year will be 50% lower -- [$10 billion]. And last year, we delivered $25 billion operating cash flow. And this year, we -- our target operating cash flow will be over -- larger than the $10 billion. So that's -- for Q1, the CapEx is roughly $3 billion, the operating cash was $1.5 billion.

美國的出貨量約佔80%，就第一季的出貨量而言，佔總量的80%。如果你看看平均市場價格，收入百分比將會更高，因為價格大幅上漲，對吧。對於總資本支出，我們總是分享—去年，我們花了大約 [200 億美元] 的產能擴張。今年將減少 50%—[100 億美元]。去年，我們實現了 250 億美元的營運現金流。今年，我們的營運現金流目標將超過 100 億美元。也就是說，第一季的資本支出約為 30 億美元，營運現金為 15 億美元。

The next question comes from Philip Shen with Roth MKM.

下一個問題來自 Philip Shen 和 Roth MKM。

First one is a follow-up on Brian's question regarding Southeast Asia AD/CVD tariffs that could be coming later this year. So I was wondering if you could talk about how you plan on managing the retroactive tariff risk. So I think you guys talked about increasing your shipments to the U.S. market, more certainly having a high mix to the U.S. through 2024. Can you share how much of your shipment volume in '24 could go to the U.S.? And then how do you plan on managing that retroactive risk that could be as early as May or July?

第一個是布萊恩關於今年稍後可能出台的東南亞 AD/CVD 關稅問題的後續行動。所以我想知道您是否可以談談您計劃如何管理追溯關稅風險。因此，我認為你們談到了增加對美國市場的出貨量，更肯定的是到 2024 年對美國的出貨量要高。那麼您計劃如何管理最早可能在五月或七月發生的追溯風險？

Yes. For -- firstly, for the volume-wise, we still stick to our previous plan that we are not intentionally increase or decrease our shipments in the U.S. because of the recent AD/CVD petitions. So that's already within our within the plan of this year. So it is definitely because you know what's happening in the last 2 years in U.S. to Jinko, so that's why this year's total shipment numbers or the ratio of the U.S. market definitely will be higher than last year. That's why we're just saying that. And for this -- risk retroactive or number-wise, we don't have mature solutions right now. That's why we are still -- as I just answered Brian's question, we are still talking to the lawyers and the customer to see what could be the best solutions. Right now, at least I am not aware of any good solutions on that.

是的。首先，就銷量而言，我們仍然堅持先前的計劃，即不會因為最近的 AD/CVD 請願而有意增加或減少在美國的出貨量。所以這已經在我們今年的計劃之內。所以肯定是因為你知道晶科最近兩年在美國發生了什麼，所以今年的總出貨量或美國市場的比例肯定會高於去年。這就是我們這麼說的原因。對於這一點——風險追溯或數位方面，我們目前沒有成熟的解決方案。這就是為什麼我們仍然 - 正如我剛剛回答布萊恩的問題一樣，我們仍在與律師和客戶交談，看看可能是最好的解決方案。目前，至少我不知道有什麼好的解決方案。

Got it. And how are your contracts structured? Meaning, oftentimes, there's a change of law provision that may put the risk on to the customer. But does it cover tariffs? And so do you have the provisions in all your U.S. contracts so that the risk is on the customer? Or in this case, do you believe that the risk of retroactive tariffs may fall into your camp?

知道了。你們的合約是如何構成的？這意味著，法律條款的變更通常可能會將風險轉嫁給客戶。但它涵蓋關稅嗎？那麼，您在所有美國合約中是否都規定了風險由客戶承擔的條款？或者說在這種情況下，您認為追溯關稅的風險可能會落入您的陣營嗎？

I don't think we can disclose the details of the contract, but definitely, customers feel the risk as well. So even there are some languish, which give the cash risk to the customer end. But definitely, the customer side has this the basic economics of the project financing, right? If it does go beyond a certain threshold, then definitely, the project will not happen as planned. That's why we have to go through all those details with our customers, with their lawyers and even their financing providers to find out the best mutual solution for all parties. It's not that easy to take 1 case -- 1 solution for all.

我認為我們不能透露合約的細節，但毫無疑問，客戶也感受到了風險。因此，即使存在一些疲軟，這也為客戶端帶來了現金風險。但肯定的是，客戶方有這個專案融資的基本經濟學，對吧？如果它確實超過了一定的閾值，那麼該專案肯定不會按計劃進行。這就是為什麼我們必須與客戶、他們的律師甚至他們的融資提供者仔細研究所有這些細節，以便為各方找到最佳的共同解決方案。為所有人提供 1 個案例 — 1 個解決方案並不是那麼容易。

Okay. One last question on the U.S. market. What do you think is the amount of channel inventory in the U.S. We've seen a lot of shipments to the tune of about 5 gigawatts a month coming to the U.S. over the past year. Do you think there's as much as 1.5 years of module inventory in the U.S.? Or do you think it's much lower? Can you help us understand what you see.

好的。關於美國市場的最後一個問題。您認為美國的通路庫存量是多少？你認為美國的組件庫存能達到1.5年嗎？或者你認為它低得多？你能幫助我們理解你所看到的嗎？

We have reasons now saying that there's, let's say, oversupply in the U.S. market. Even some players, either downstream or upstream try to get more modules before, just not AD/CVD, but that's undeserved, right, so before any circa. We heard it reasonable. But from our end, we have not been able to verify that directly from the customers or from some of our peers right now. But definitely, if we look into the numbers available in the market or some market analyst reports, we have seen a massive number of modules or solar product has been shipped to U.S. But -- but the grid connection numbers might not support that big number. Definitely, we have the same question as you have right now.

我們現在有理由說美國市場有供應過剩的情況。甚至一些下游或上游的參與者也試圖在之前獲得更多模組，只是不是 AD/CVD，但這是不值得的，對吧，所以在任何情況之前。我們聽了很有道理。但從我們的角度來看，我們目前無法直接從客戶或一些同行驗證這一點。但可以肯定的是，如果我們查看市場上的可用數據或一些市場分析師報告，我們會發現大量組件或太陽能產品已運往美國，但是電網連接數據可能無法支援這麼大的數字。當然，我們和您現在有同樣的問題。

Okay. Last question here for me on the fire that you guys disclosed over the weekend. Can you talk about the impact Shanxi supposedly a key part of your margin, right? So -- you did say that there would be an impact in '24. Can you quantify in any way? When do you think that facility could come back online? How destructive was the fire?

好的。最後一個問題是關於你們週末披露的火災問題。您能談談對山西的影響，據說這是您利潤的關鍵部分嗎？所以——你確實說過 24 年會產生影響。你能以任何方式量化嗎？您認為該設施什麼時候可以恢復上線？這場火災的破壞力有多大？

Philip, the impact is still being evaluated. But Shanxi Super factory. Remember, this year, we do 2 phases. Phase I is 14 gigawatts, Phase II is another 14 gigawatts. And the second phase, Phase II will stick to the original plan and expected to start operation in Q3 for the Phase II and fully operational in early Q4 this year. But we are talking about the Phase I. Phase I, the fire has the impact on the cell capacity, the 14 gigawatts, and we expect the cell capacity will be fully operational by the end of this year. And this is our original plan is by the end of the middle year. So it's going to have some kind of impact, 2 quarters roughly and estimated 3 to 5 gigawatts. So the impact is not significant. It's very -- not significant impact for the cell. And so for the operational side, we have adjusted our productions throughout the global facilities to minimize the impact to our customers. And for the cost side and the impact of the operation, we think it's not significant. However, for the losses of the fire is still evaluating, but the equipment is fully -- the insurance from the big insurance companies in China, and we're working on it.

菲利普，影響仍在評估中。但山西超級工廠。請記住，今年我們分為兩個階段。一期14吉瓦，二期另外14吉瓦。第二期二期將按照原計劃，預計二期第三季開始運營，今年第四季初全面投入營運。但我們談論的是第一期。這是我們最初的計劃是在年中年底之前。因此，它將產生某種影響，大約兩個季度，估計為 3 到 5 吉瓦。所以影響不大。這對細胞的影響非常小。因此，在營運方面，我們調整了全球工廠的生產，以盡量減少對客戶的影響。而對於成本方面和營運的影響，我們認為並不重要。不過，火災造成的損失還在評估中，但設備齊全——中國各大保險公司的保險，我們正在處理中。

Next question comes from [Wade Wu] with Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 [Wade Wu]。

This is Alan from Jefferies. So first of all, I would like to ask a follow-up the question from Philip on the -- basically, how many -- or what is the percentage of the contracts you have signed -- at least have the languish that is passing through the potential liability of the delays in AD/CVD? The background of this question is because some of the peers suffered a lot last year when they have procured high-priced polysilicon. And then later on, when they failed to deliver the shipment, they even have to pay penalties as per those contracts. So I wonder if those languish is already there. And it's only a matter of working with your clients to solve the problem? And is there any potential liability in delivering the obligations?

我是來自 Jefferies 的艾倫。首先，我想問菲利普的後續問題——基本上，你簽署的合約有多少——或者百分比是多少——至少有正在經歷的萎靡不振AD/CVD 延誤的潛在責任？提出這個問題的背景是因為去年一些同行在高價購買多晶矽時吃了不少虧。後來，當他們未能交付貨物時，他們甚至要按照合約支付違約金。所以我想知道這些疲倦是否已經存在。這只是與您的客戶合作解決問題的問題嗎？履行義務是否有任何潛在的責任？

Yes. So again, I don't think we can disclose that level of detail. But definitely, we are case-by-case working with customers on this AD/CVD risk as we always do, right? So we've got a lot of support from the customers regarding what has happened in the U.S. market in the last 2 years' time. So definitely, we appreciate the support, and we are carrying that love for the future long-term partnership with most of our customers. That's why we never want to end up with a loss-loss solution. So even if there's a risk, we definitely go ahead with the customer to look into the solutions together. That's why we can maintain our leadership in many markets, right?

是的。再說一次，我認為我們無法透露這種細節。但毫無疑問，我們會一如既往地與客戶就 AD/CVD 風險進行個案合作，對吧？因此，對於過去兩年美國市場發生的情況，我們得到了客戶的大力支持。因此，我們當然感謝您的支持，並且我們將這種愛帶入未來與大多數客戶的長期合作關係。這就是為什麼我們永遠不想以雙輸的解決方案告終。因此，即使存在風險，我們也一定會與客戶一起研究解決方案。這就是為什麼我們能夠在許多市場中保持領先地位，對吧？

Okay. Understood. So the next question is regarding to some of the -- appears to be one-off income in this quarter. So like the other income is actually surged quarter-by-quarter. So I wonder if that's related to a disposal gain in our Xinjiang capacity? And how much of that is related to that?

好的。明白了。因此，下一個問題是關於本季的一些一次性收入。因此，就像其他收入一樣，實際上是逐季度激增的。所以我想知道這是否與我們新疆產能的處置收益有關？其中有多少與此相關？

So in Q1, we have completed a transaction to sell 100% equity of our Xinjiang facilities. And we retained, I think, roughly $800 million to $900 million net income impact.

所以在第一季，我們完成了出售新疆工廠100%股權的交易。我認為，我們保留了大約 8 億至 9 億美元的淨利潤影響。

Understood. So also I recall in the transaction is further performance -- is kind of like a performance guarantee in the next couple of years. So has that been factored into this $800 million to $900 million? Or that is completely separated?

明白了。我還記得交易中是進一步的績效——有點像未來幾年的績效保證。那麼這是否已計入這 8 億至 9 億美元？或者說是完全分開的？

We didn't record that, the performance -- kind of performance obligation or variable considerations from the sale of equity. So we did not account on the book. We just recorded a fixed portion for the transaction.

我們沒有記錄這種履約──一種履約義務或出售股權的可變對價。所以我們沒有在書上記帳。我們只是記錄了交易的固定部分。

Understood. So -- and I think another thing that is quite -- I would say, quite impressive compared to a lot of your peers is that you actually do not have any impairment on assets. So wonder if you think you will have any impairment risk going forward, in this year or because you have a super majority of your capacities TOPCon already, so you do not foresee any risk going forward from here?

明白了。因此，我認為另一件非常令人印象深刻的事情是，與許多同行相比，您實際上沒有任何資產減損。因此，想知道您是否認為今年會面臨任何減損風險，或者因為您已經擁有 TOPCon 的絕大多數產能，所以您預計未來不會有任何風險？

Yes, you're right. And we have very small capacity, and we accelerated depreciation over 5 years throughout the last 2 years and the net book value is not significant.

你是對的。而且我們的產能很小，過去兩年我們加速折舊超過5年，帳面淨值並不顯著。

That's impressive. And also, you have mentioned the cash flow in the first quarter was actually positive. So I wonder if the company has taken initiative to improve the cash flow quarter-over-quarter because that's also one of the concerns of investors as to the operating cash flow.

這很讓人佩服。而且，您提到第一季的現金流實際上是正值。所以我想知道公司是否主動改善了現金流，因為這也是投資者對營運現金流的擔憂之一。

Efficiency is our still our focus, operational Efficiencies, and minimize the production lead time, logistics delivery time, cash conversion cycles and the Shanxi Super factory, we are building is one of the key considerations, improves the whole cycle conversion and improves the cash flow, minimize the working capitals and warehouse costs and logistics timing.

效率仍然是我們的重點，營運效率，盡量減少生產提前期、物流交貨時間、現金週轉週期，我們正在建設的山西超級工廠是重點考慮的因素之一，提高整個週期週轉率，改善現金流，最大限度地減少營運資金和倉儲成本以及物流時間。

Finally, on the buyback. I wonder if the company has any guidance on the pace of the buyback? Because I've noticed that there's a lot of announcement around that. But I wonder if you would provide any guidance on that? And would there be any blackout in buy back after the end of quarter and before the announcement of the results?

最後，關於回購。不知道公司對於回購的節奏有何指引？因為我注意到有很多關於這方面的公告。但我想知道您是否會提供任何指導？季末後、業績公佈前是否會出現回購限制？

Our plan is preliminary price, the shareholder return is roughly USD 200 million this year. And you can see, we released news, we have spent roughly USD 105 million to repurchase back, the ADS. And on top of that, which is subject to the broader pool, we plan to declare dividend roughly USD 70 million to USD 80 million. So together with our plan, preliminary plan, this year's shareholder return is roughly USD 200 million.

我們的計畫是初步定價，今年股東回報約2億美元。你可以看到，我們發布了消息，我們已經花了大約1.05億美元回購ADS。除此之外，根據更廣泛的資金池，我們計劃宣布股息約為 7,000 萬美元至 8,000 萬美元。所以加上我們的計劃，初步計劃，今年的股東回報大約是2億美元。

(Operator Instructions) The next question comes from [Rajiv Chaudhri] with Intrinsic Edge.

（操作員說明）下一個問題來自 Intrinsic Edge 的 [Rajiv Chaudhri]。

Congratulations on a strong performance in a very tough first quarter for the industry. My first question is about the gross margin. It seems like your cost per watt for modules were down roughly 10% from the fourth quarter to the first quarter. And my question is, number one, can you give us an idea of how you were able to achieve such a dramatic decline in cost per watt given that the polysilicon costs were down as well but not as significant. And then I have a follow-up on the gross margin as well.

恭喜該行業在非常艱難的第一季取得了強勁的表現。我的第一個問題是關於毛利率。從第四季到第一季度，你們的模組每瓦成本似乎下降了大約 10%。我的問題是，第一，您能否告訴我們，在多晶矽成本下降但幅度不大的情況下，您是如何實現每瓦成本如此大幅下降的。然後我也會跟進毛利率。

Yes. It's a combination of our supply chain, our R&D teams, new technologies and improve the -- lower the consumption of the materials. And we upgraded the TOPCon capacity adopting (inaudible) technology and significantly improve our sales efficiencies while cut a lot of consumption of the (inaudible). And so a lot of efforts we are doing that. And we have -- internally, we have a very solid target for the cost reductions. And step by step, we think with -- quarter-by-quarter, the cost will be relative -- improvement will be relatively quicker. But again, now the industry situation is module prices kind of dropped a lot, but we expect it to be stabilized and cost take time. And we will try our best to improve the cost structure.

是的。它是我們的供應鏈、研發團隊、新技術和改進——降低材料消耗的結合。我們採用（聽不清楚）技術升級了 TOPCon 產能，顯著提高了我們的銷售效率，同時減少了大量（聽不清楚）的消耗。我們正在為此付出很多努力。我們在內部有一個非常堅實的降低成本的目標。我們認為，一步一步地，逐季度地，成本將是相對的，改進將相對更快。但同樣，現在的行業情況是組件價格下降了很多，但我們預計它會穩定下來，成本需要時間。我們將盡力改善成本結構。

So Charlie, is it fair to think that in the coming quarters, Q2, Q3 and Q4 with all the improvements that you are making, that we can expect cost to improve by 1% to 2% every quarter.

那麼查理，可以公平地認為，在接下來的幾個季度，即第二季度、第三季度和第四季度，隨著您所做的所有改進，我們可以預期成本每季會提高1% 到2%。

It depends. Some of the things -- most of the things we can control, but some of the things are out of control. If you look at the severe -- the commodity price, is up a lot in recent months, but we're trying to minimize the impact. But if you look at quarter-by-quarter, throughout the year, it's definitely -- at the end of this year, the cost will be lower than the cost as of today.

這取決於。有些事情——大多數事情我們可以控制，但有些事情是無法控制的。如果你看看最嚴重的情況——大宗商品價格近幾個月來上漲了很多，但我們正在努力將影響降到最低。但如果你按季度、全年來看，那麼到今年年底，成本肯定會低於今天的成本。

Right. But assuming that the material costs don't change, is the 2% per quarter on a sequential basis, a reasonable assumption to make in terms of how you are reducing the cost?

正確的。但假設材料成本不變，那麼就如何降低成本而言，按季度計算 2% 是一個合理的假設嗎？

We have internally even bigger targets than the 2 percentage quarter if assuming the material cost is the same. But overall cost, depending on a lot of things. And I think for all it's going to be improved. But again, we think in the next 2 quarters, the cost improvement will not be so significant. And because we have done a lot of things and -- but the commodity price now looks at to be keep at a very high level and considering that, we don't believe the overall cost will be dramatically lower, but it's lower -- slightly lower in the next 2 quarters.

如果假設材料成本相同，我們內部的目標甚至比 2% 季還要大。但整體成本取決於許多因素。我認為這一切都會得到改善。但同樣，我們認為在未來兩個季度，成本改善不會那麼顯著。因為我們已經做了很多事情，但是大宗商品價格現在看來保持在一個非常高的水平，考慮到這一點，我們不認為總體成本會大幅降低，但它略低了未來 2 個季度將下降。

So combined with the fact that ASPs, that you'll be selling more product in the United States by the fourth quarter. And so it's possible that ASPs are actually up somewhat sequentially from Q3 to Q4 and your costs are coming down by, let's say, even 2% quarter-over-quarter. It looks like you should be able to get the gross margin to be in the 16%, 17% kind of range by the fourth quarter. Is that reasonable?

因此，結合 ASP 的事實，到第四季度您將在美國銷售更多產品。因此，從第三季度到第四季度，平均售價實際上可能會上升，而您的成本甚至會比去年同期下降 2%。看起來你應該能夠在第四季將毛利率控制在 16%、17% 的範圍內。這樣合理嗎？

It's difficult to estimate. As we think one of the key things with the capacity, some more capacity phase out in the second half year, we think the clients will be -- come to a relatively rational level. On top of that, we have Shanxi Super factory. We have more shipments in the U.S. and some of the premium market. It helps our margins, even some level of recovery, but it depends on a lot of things. We think, one, we are now doing is we do internal things, and we do what we can control.

很難估計。當我們認為產能的關鍵問題之一是下半年將淘汰更多產能時，我們認為客戶將達到相對理性的水平。除此之外，我們還有山西超級工廠。我們在美國和一些高端市場有更多的出貨量。它有助於我們的利潤，甚至一定程度的恢復，但這取決於許多因素。我們認為，第一，我們現在做的是我們做內在的事情，我們做我們能控制的事情。

I see. Okay. My next question is on market share. Your market share in 2023 was in excess of 15%, closer to 16% for the year as a whole. And in the first quarter, it's already in the 17% kind of range. Do you think that as the capacity comes off-line for the rest of the year, that your market share will continue to increase, especially if you hit the 110-gigawatt kind of number for the year?

我懂了。好的。我的下一個問題是關於市場佔有率。 2023 年，你們的市佔率將超過 15%，全年接近 16%。在第一季度，它已經處於 17% 的範圍內。您是否認為隨著今年剩餘時間產能的停產，您的市佔率會繼續增加，特別是如果今年達到 110 吉瓦的數字？

Well, we never take market share as our -- let's say, our target, right? So that's why we -- it's harder to say. And also because of the different definitions, there are different ways to calculate it, right? It's difficult to really define, let's say, a fair, well-accepted market share definition. But anyway, we appreciate your calculations on these numbers. Based on my perception, I think it's roughly around 17%, 18% market share is where -- how we are looking at ourselves today. Whether that number could go up or go down? It depends on the competition. It depends on the whole industry. So it depends on our peer strategy as well. So that's why it's difficult to say that right now, but definitely, we are doing our best to make sure we delivered the good results from the financial statement wise. Meanwhile, we are doing our best to serve our customers in the long term to keep the long-term partnership momentum.

嗯，我們從不把市場佔有率當作我們的目標，對吧？這就是為什麼我們——這很難說。而且因為定義不同，計算方法也不同吧？比如說，要真正定義一個公平的、廣為接受的市佔率定義是很困難的。但無論如何，我們感謝您對這些數字的計算。根據我的看法，我認為大約是 17%、18% 左右的市場份額，這就是我們今天如何看待自己的。這個數字會上升還是下降？這取決於競爭。這取決於整個行業。所以這也取決於我們的同儕策略。因此，這就是為什麼現在很難這麼說，但可以肯定的是，我們正在盡最大努力確保我們在財務報表方面取得良好的表現。同時，我們也竭盡所能為客戶提供長期服務，以維持長期合作關係的動能。

Is the market share that you have combined with the brand name that you are developing as well. Is that giving you a price premium or an increasing price premium relative to other brands?

是您與正在開發的品牌名稱結合的市場佔有率。相對於其他品牌，這是否會為您帶來溢價或不斷增加的溢價？

Definitely, we believe our brand give us a lot of strength and the market acceptance or awareness for sure. But how -- whether it creates a market premium, it depends on what numbers you are comparing with, right? If you compare with nobodies in the market, definitely the brand itself works quite a lot. But if you compare it with the top 2 or top 3, the definition of the acceptance of the customers across the different top brand might not be that much as people imagine. So and also the brand premium in the different market sector in different countries will vary a lot as well.

當然，我們相信我們的品牌給了我們很大的力量和市場的接受度或認知度。但如何——是否創造市場溢價，這取決於你要比較的數字，對嗎？如果你和市場上的無人相比，這個品牌本身肯定是有很大作用的。但如果與前 2 名或前 3 名進行比較，不同頂級品牌的客戶接受度定義可能並不像人們想像的那麼多。因此，不同國家不同市場領域的品牌溢價也會有很大差異。

I see. A question on the N-type products. What do you think the industry's shipments of N-type products will be in 2024?

我懂了。關於N型產品的問題。您認為2024年業界N型產品的出貨量會是多少？

Roughly, we believe the market will finish the transition from P-type to N-type by end of this year. So technically, it might start from, I'd say, roughly 35% to 40% range and to year-end, 90% even 95% range. That's what we believe.

粗略地說，我們認為市場將在今年年底完成從P型到N型的轉變。所以從技術上講，我想說，它可能會從大約 35% 到 40% 的範圍開始，到年底，90% 甚至 95% 的範圍。這就是我們所相信的。

So you think the other -- the competitors will also get up to the 90% range by the end of the year?

那麼您認為其他競爭對手到今年底也將達到 90% 的範圍嗎？

I mean the whole industry, right? Someone might take action faster. Someone may be slower. But as an industry, we believe that the whole industry will look like that.

我的意思是整個產業，對嗎？有人可能會更快採取行動。有人可能會慢一些。但作為一個產業，我們相信整個產業都會是這樣的。

Now you have been ahead in terms of putting your cost of N-type down and now your N-type costs are comparable to P-type. What kind of margin premium does that give you over Tier 2 and Tier 3 companies who are behind the cost curve relative to you guys?

現在，您在降低 N 型成本方面已經處於領先地位，現在您的 N 型成本與 P 型相當。與相對於你們而言落後於成本曲線的二級和三級公司相比，這會為你們帶來什麼樣的利潤溢價？

So let's take this as the last question. Thank you for your questions. We believe if you look into some third-party market intel, for example, there's, let's say, PV InfoLink, right? So if you compare the P-type, N-type price, the gap is roughly USD 1 per watt. So if you -- you can roughly calculate how much it will reflect in the margin-wise, right? So it's roughly like 9%, 10% of the margin difference, right? That's the way we are looking to it. I see.

那麼讓我們把這個當作最後一個問題。謝謝您的提問。我們相信，如果您研究一些第三方市場英特爾，例如，PV InfoLink，對吧？所以如果比較P型、N型的價格，差距大約是每瓦1美元。因此，如果您 - 您可以粗略地計算它將在保證金方面反映多少，對吧？所以大約是 9%、10% 的利潤差，對吧？這就是我們正在尋求的方式。我懂了。

The last question comes from Leo Ho with Daiwa Capital Markets.

最後一個問題來自大和資本市場的 Leo Ho。

Just a question on the AD/CVD situation. I just wonder for our U.S. capacity, are we using like our own solar cell from Southeast Asia? And we've been hearing some industry feedback suggesting that probably there may be the cancellation of the Wafer-Plus-Three rules, which means that we cannot use solar cell from Southeast Asia and more. So do you have any view on that?

只是關於 AD/CVD 情況的問題。我只是想知道我們美國的產能，我們是否使用像我們自己的東南亞太陽能電池？我們已經聽到一些行業反饋表明，晶圓加三規則可能會被取消，這意味著我們不能使用來自東南亞等地的太陽能電池。那麼您對此有何看法？

I'm not quite sure what policies you are referring to. But based on Jinko situation, we are fully vertically integrated in outside China, means in polysilicon in the wafer cell module are not all from non-China sources, right? So that's what we have built in the last 2 years' time under the U.S. (inaudible). So that gives us a lot of advantage and trust in the U.S. market.

我不太清楚你指的是哪些政策。但根據晶科的情況，我們在中國以外是完全垂直一體化的，這意味著矽片電池模組中的多晶矽不都是來自非中國來源，對吧？這就是我們過去兩年在美國的領導下所建立的（聽不清楚）。因此，這給了我們在美國市場的許多優勢和信任。

Okay. Just one more question, if I may. I would like to ask about the EU situation. Aside from, I think, publicly announced situation regarding Longxi and also Shanghai Electric. Are we hearing any like troubles regarding Chinese players exporting to Europe? Especially we've been hearing some weird news suggesting that probably that's one of the major module maker with EU headquarter being raided. I'm not sure if you guys are hearing the same situation.

好的。如果可以的話，我還有一個問題。我想問一下歐盟的情況。我認為，除了公開宣布的有關隴西和上海電氣的情況之外。我們是否聽過有關中國企業向歐洲出口的類似問題？特別是我們聽到了一些奇怪的消息，表明這可能是歐盟總部遭到襲擊的主要模組製造商之一。不知道大家是否也聽過同樣的情況。

Not -- just not something I'm aware of right now. So if you have anything, I definitely would like to know.

不——只是我現在不知道。所以如果你有什麼事情，我絕對想知道。

This concludes the conference call. Please disconnect your lines.

電話會議到此結束。請斷開您的線路。