晶科能源 (JKS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by for JinkoSolar Holding Co Limited's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

女士們、先生們，大家好，感謝您參加晶科能源控股有限公司 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's conference call is being recorded.

（操作員指示）提醒一下，今天的電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the meeting over to your host for today's call, Ms. Stella Wang, JinkoSolar's Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給今天電話會議的主持人，晶科能源投資者關係部負責人 Stella Wang 女士。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Thank you everyone for joining us today for JinkoSolar's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. The company's results were released earlier today and available on the company's IR website at www.jinkosolar.com, as well as on Newswire services. We have also provided a supplemental presentation for today's earnings call, which can also be found on the IR website.

謝謝您，接線生。感謝大家今天參加晶科能源2024年第四季財報電話會議。該公司的業績已於今日早些時候發布，並可在公司投資者關係網站 www.jinkosolar.com 以及新聞專線服務上查閱。我們也為今天的收益電話會議提供了補充演示文稿，也可以在 IR 網站上找到。

On the call today from JinkoSolar are Mr. Li Xiande, Chairman and CEO of JinkoSolar Holding Company Limited; Mr. Gener Miao, CMO of JinkoSolar Company Limited; Mr. Pan, the CFO of JinkoSolar Holding Company Limited; and Mr. Charlie Cao, Chief Financial Officer of JinkoSolar Company Limited.

今天參加晶科能源電話會議的有晶科能源控股有限公司董事長兼首席執行官李賢德先生；晶科能源股份有限公司首席營銷官苗根先生；晶科能源控股有限公司CFO潘先生；以及晶科能源有限公司首席財務官曹查理先生。

Mr. Li will discuss JinkoSolar's business operations and company highlights, followed by Mr. Miao who will talk about the sales and marketing and then Mr. Pan Li who will go through the financials. They will all be available to answer your questions during the Q&A session that follows.

李先生將討論晶科能源的業務運營和公司亮點，隨後苗先生將談論銷售和營銷，然後潘李先生將介紹財務情況。他們將在隨後的問答環節中回答您的問題。

Please note that today's discussion will contain forward-looking statements made under the Safe Harbor provisions of the US Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements involve inherent risks and uncertainties. As such, our future results may be materially different from the views expressed today. Further information regarding this and other risks is included in JinkoSolar's public filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. JinkoSolar does not assume any obligation to update any forward-looking statements except as required under the applicable law.

請注意，今天的討論將包含根據 1995 年美國私人證券訴訟改革法案的安全港條款做出的前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述涉及固有風險和不確定性。因此，我們未來的結果可能與今天表達的觀點有重大差異。有關此風險和其他風險的更多信息，請參閱晶科能源向美國證券交易委員會提交的公開文件。除適用法律要求外，晶科能源不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

It's now my pleasure to introduce Mr. Li Xiande, Chairman and CEO of JinkoSolar Holding. Mr. Li will speak in Mandarin, and I will translate his comments into English. Please go ahead, Mr. Li.

現在我很高興介紹晶科能源控股有限公司董事長兼執行長李賢德先生。李先生將以普通話發表演講，我將把他的評論翻譯成英文。李先生，請說。

(interpreted) We delivered more resilient operating results in the challenging year of 2024 with our leading position in N-type TOPCon technology and the patent portfolio, competitive products, as well as global sales and manufacturing networks.

(翻譯) 憑藉在N型TOPCon技術和專利組合方面的領先地位、有競爭力的產品以及全球銷售和製造網絡，我們在充滿挑戰的2024年取得了更具韌性的經營業績。

Our annual module shipments increased by 18.3% year over year for about 93 gigawatts, ranking first in the industry. The ongoing imbalance between supply and demand led to a decline in the model prices in 2024. Combined with the impact of short-term factors such as the elimination of obsolete production capacity, our profitability dropped significantly year over year. Gross margin was 10.9% in 2024 compared to 16% in 2023.

全年組件出貨量約93吉瓦，較去年成長18.3%，位居產業第一。持續的供需失衡導致2024年模型價格下降。加之淘汰落後產能等短期因素的影響，我們的獲利能力較去年同期大幅下降。2024 年毛利率為 10.9%，而 2023 年為 16%。

Net income was USD7.9 million down 98% year over year. Module shipments were 25.2 gigawatts in the fourth quarter in line with our guidance, as over 50% of modules were shifted to the domestic market where the price were lower and the proportion of higher price overseas orders declined sequentially.

淨收入790萬美元，年減98%。第四季組件出貨量為25.2吉瓦，符合我們的預期，因為超過50%的組件轉移到價格較低的國內市場，而高價海外訂單比例則較上季下降。

Both module ASP and profits decreased sequentially. Gross margin was 3.6% in the fourth quarter compared to 15.7% in the third quarter. Net loss was USD64.9 million compared to net income of USD3.2 million in the third quarter.

模組平均售價和利潤均連續下降。第四季毛利率為3.6%，第三季為15.7%。淨虧損為 6,490 萬美元，而第三季淨收入為 320 萬美元。

In 2024, the global PV industry maintained the faster growth momentum according to NEA data. Newly added installation in China was 277 gigawatts in 2024, an increase of 28% year over year, setting a record high. According to InfoLink Consulting, China's module exports reached 236 gigawatts in 2024, an increase of 13% year over year. Intensified supply and the demand imbalances led to a downward trend in the product's prices, putting profits under pressure in all segments of the industrial chain.

國家能源局數據顯示，2024年全球光電產業仍維持較快成長動能。2024年中國新增裝置277吉瓦，較去年成長28%，創歷史新高。根據InfoLink Consulting預測，2024年中國組件出口量將達236吉瓦，較去年同期成長13%。供給加劇、需求失衡導致產品價格呈現下降趨勢，產業鏈各環節利潤承壓。

In order to return the industry to healthy development, the national authorities took steps to resolve the structural imbalance between supply and demand with the participation of industry associations and the manufacturers. In November, state departments announced the policies to raise entry barrier for new manufacturing capacities, reduced exports, tax rebates, and other matters.

為使產業恢復健康發展，國家相關部門在產業協會和生產企業的參與下，採取措施解決供需結構性失衡問題。11月份，國務院各部門相繼推出提高產能進入門檻、減少出口、退稅等政策。

In December, leading PV enterprises signed a self-discipline pledge aimed to limit a low-price competition and reducing production. Recently, the NDRC and the NEA announced a policy on market-based reforms for on-grid renewable energy pricing aimed at promoting high-quality industry development. Guided by industry self-discipline and supportive policies, price in the industry as well as other module prices have stabilized and started to rebound.

12月，光電龍頭企業簽署了自律承諾書，旨在限制低價競爭和減少產量。近日，發改委、國家能源總署公佈再生能源上網電價市場化改革政策，推動產業高品質發展。在產業自律和扶持政策的引導下，產業價格及其他組件價格均已穩定並開始回升。

We are committed to maintaining technology leadership through continuous R&D investments and a mass production of innovative products. By the end of the fourth quarter, the average mass-produced N-type cell efficiency reached nearly 26.5%, and the efficiency on the highest performing production lines, our golden area reached over 26.7%. In addition, we have recently initiated the production of a third generation Tiger Neo products with large scale production expected by the end of this year.

我們致力於透過持續的研發投入和創新產品的大規模生產來維持技術領先地位。截至第四季末，量產N型電池平均效率已接近26.5%，其中最高產線黃金區域效率已超過26.7%。此外，我們最近已開始生產第三代Tiger Neo產品，預計今年底將實現大規模生產。

We continue to phase out outdated production capacity while further enhancing our global manufacturing capabilities. At our Shanxi N-type Super Factory, we take ongoing efforts to reduce the cost and improve efficiency through the introduction of automated equipment and the process optimization. Our 2 gigawatts N-type module production capacity in the US is operating at nearly full capacity, while our Saudi Arabia project is progressing steadily.

我們不斷淘汰落後生產能力，同時進一步提升全球製造能力。在我們的山西N型超級工廠，我們透過引進自動化設備和優化製程，不斷努力降低成本、提高效率。我們在美國2吉瓦N型組件產能已接近滿載運轉，而我們的沙烏地計畫也在穩步推進。

As we continue to strengthen our localized supply chain, we are confident in our ability to meet customer demands for locally produced high-quality and stable product supply and services.

隨著我們不斷加強在地化供應鏈，我們有信心滿足客戶對本地生產的高品質、穩定的產品供應和服務的需求。

Recently, we were included in the S&P Global's 2025 Sustainability Yearbook as the only solar module company. In the latest corporate sustainability assessment CSA results released by the S&P Global, we scored 69 points, ranking first among the top five PV module companies. In addition, we received a BBB rating for the second consecutive year in the MSCI ESG ratings. These recognitions are a strong testament to our continuous efforts in ESG.

最近，我們作為唯一一家太陽能電池組件公司被納入標準普爾全球2025年永續發展年鑑。在標普全球發布的最新企業永續發展評估CSA結果中，我們以69分的成績，位居五大光電模組公司之首。此外，我們在MSCI ESG評級中連續第二年獲得BBB評級。這些認可有力地證明了我們在 ESG 方面的持續努力。

We place great importance on intellectual property protection and are committed to maintaining our global technological leadership through an extensive IP portfolio. By the end of the fourth quarter, we had built a strong patent portfolio, including 462 granted TOPCon patents, making us one of the world's leading holders of TOPCon-related patents.

我們高度重視智慧財產權保護，並致力於透過廣泛的智慧財產權組合來維持我們全球技術領先地位。截至第四季末，我們已建立了強大的專利組合，其中包括462項已授予的TOPCon專利，使我們成為全球領先的TOPCon相關專利持有者之一。

Our TOPCon patent portfolio covers a substantial number of countries and regions, including the United States, Europe, Japan, Australia, China. Recently, we received the patent infringement claims from some competitors. After a preliminary review, we believe these allegations lack both factual and legal merits. We are actively responding in collaboration with legal advisors and technical experts.

我們的TOPCon專利組合涵蓋了大量國家和地區，包括美國、歐洲、日本、澳洲、中國。最近，我們收到了一些競爭對手的專利侵權索賠。經初步審查，我們認為這些指控缺乏事實和法律依據。我們正在與法律顧問和技術專家合作積極應對。

As an industry leader in innovation, we fully respect intellectual property rights and advocate for fair competition while firmly defending our legitimate rights and interests. We believe that upholding these principles is essential for the healthy development of the industry.

身為產業創新引領者，我們充分尊重智慧財產權，提倡公平競爭，堅決捍衛自身合法權益。我們相信，堅持這些原則對產業的健康發展至關重要。

In the short term, as some leading PV companies face significant financial losses, the industry may have entered a deep adjustment period. Companies lacking competitive cost and efficiency, product and technology iteration capabilities, and global expansion capabilities are likely to be phased out, helping restore supply and demand balance to the industry in the medium to long term.

短期來看，由於部分光電龍頭企業虧損較大，產業或將進入深度調整期。缺乏成本和效率競爭力、產品和技術迭代能力、全球化擴張能力的企業可能會被淘汰，有助於中長期恢復產業供需平衡。

According to IEA data, renewable energy is expected to supply half of global electricity demand by 2030, with wind and solar PV generation doubling their share to 30%. This highlights the vast growth potential of the PV industry. With our extensive marketing insights and strong execution capabilities, we have successfully navigated industry cycle several times. We are confident this strength will continue to help us overcome future challenges and position us strongly for emerging opportunities.

根據國際能源總署的數據，到2030年，再生能源預計將滿足全球電力需求的一半，其中風能和太陽能光電發電的份額將翻倍，達到30%。這凸顯了光電產業巨大的成長潛力。憑藉豐富的市場洞察力和強大的執行能力，我們多次成功穿越產業週期。我們相信，這種實力將繼續幫助我們克服未來的挑戰，並讓我們在新興機會中佔有有利地位。

Before turning over to Gener, I would like to go over our guidance for the first quarter and the full year of 2025. By the end of 2025, we expect the mass produced the N-type cell efficiency to reach approximately 27%. We are taking a more cautious approach to capacity expansion in this year. Besides upgrades to TOPCon technology, there is no newly added capacity.

在交給 Gener 之前，我想先介紹一下我們對 2025 年第一季和全年的預期。到2025年底，我們預計量產的N型電池效率將達到約27％。今年我們對產能擴張採取更謹慎的態度。除TOPCon技術升級外，沒有新增產能。

We expect a new production capacity for mono wafers, solar cells, and the solar modules to reach 120, 95, and 130 gigawatts, respectively, by the end of this year. We expect the model shipment to be between 16 to 18 gigawatts for the first quarter of 2025 and between 85 and 100 gigawatts for the full-year 2025. We will also continue to optimize our assets and the liability structure while maintaining a healthy cash reserve, further strengthening our resilience to risks.

我們預計，到今年年底，單晶矽片、太陽能電池和太陽能組件的新產能將分別達到120吉瓦、95吉瓦和130吉瓦。我們預計該型號出貨量在 2025 年第一季將在 16 至 18 吉瓦之間，2025 年全年將在 85 至 100 吉瓦之間。我們將繼續優化資產負債結構，維持健康的現金儲備，進一步增強抗風險能力。

Thank you, Mr. Li. We are proud to have reached a historical high quarterly and annual module shipments and leveraging our global sales network and the product sales. Total shipments were approximately 26.5 gigawatts in the fourth quarter, with module shipment accounting for 95%. Annual module shipments were 93 gigawatts, ranking first in the industry. This marks the sixth year in the past decade that we have won the global module shipment championship.

謝謝你，李先生。我們很自豪能夠達到歷史最高的季度和年度模組出貨量，並充分利用我們的全球銷售網路和產品銷售。第四季總出貨量約26.5吉瓦，其中組件出貨量佔95%。全年組件出貨量93吉瓦，位居業界第一。這是我們十年來第六次奪得全球組件出貨量冠軍。

We continue to improve our product efficiency and the quality and expand our client service network as our brand influence continue to grow. By the end of the fourth quarter, we were leading the industry as the first PV enterprise to reach the milestone of accumulative module shipment over 300 gigawatts, covering nearly 200 countries and regions.

隨著品牌影響力的不斷增強，我們不斷提高產品的效率和質量，擴大客戶服務網絡。截至第四季末，我們領先產業，成為第一家組件累計出貨量突破300吉瓦的光伏企業，覆蓋近200個國家和地區。

In terms of geographic mix for the full year, 60% of modules were shipped overseas, primarily Europe, India, and Pacific, and Middle East Africa. Shipments to North America accounted for around 8% in line with our expectations. We further optimize our product with the portion of N-type Tiger Neo series exceeding 95% in fourth quarter and nearly 90% for the full year.

從全年地理分佈來看，60%的組件運往海外，主要是歐洲、印度、太平洋和中東非洲。對北美的出貨量佔比約為8%，符合我們的預期。我們進一步優化產品結構，第四季N型Tiger Neo系列佔比超過95%，全年N型Tiger Neo系列佔比接近90%。

Recently, we ranked number one in the Global Solar Module Manufacturers Ranking 2025 report published by Wood Mackenzie. In addition, we were ranked as the most bankable solar module company in the 2024 PV Module Bankability Survey by Bloomberg. We were also only solar module company to receive a 100% bankability rating in this year's survey. All these are strong evidence of recognizing our stable financial conditions as well as high efficiency and the reliable products and services by our global customer, financial institutions, and other industry stakeholders.

近日，我們在Wood Mackenzie發布的2025年全球太陽能模組製造商排名報告中位居第一。此外，在彭博社 2024 年光伏組件融資能力調查中，我們被評為最具融資能力的太陽能電池組件公司。我們也是今年調查中唯一一家獲得 100% 銀行融資評級的太陽能電池組件公司。這些都充分證明了我們穩定的財務狀況和高效、可靠的產品與服務得到了全球客戶、金融機構及其他行業利益相關者的認可。

In 2024, the newly added 277 gigawatts in domestic installation exceeded expectations, with 70 gigawatts in December, all historical highs. Looking forward to 2025, newly added installations in China are expected to be 270 gigawatts or higher, and the global PV demand is expected to be around 700 gigawatts. We will continue to leverage our advantage in products, brands, patent portfolios, and global channels to provide better products and services to our global clients.

2024年，國內新增裝置277吉瓦，超出預期，12月新增裝置70吉瓦，皆創歷史新高。展望2025年，中國新增裝置預計在270吉瓦或更高，全球光電需求預計在700吉瓦左右。我們將持續發揮產品、品牌、專利組合、全球通路等優勢，為全球客戶提供更好的產品與服務。

With that, I will turn the call over to Pan.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給潘。

We are pleased to report that our total model shipments increased 18.3% year over year in a challenging year. As module prices decline in the fourth quarter, we enhanced control over cost and expenses, reducing operating expenses by about 27% sequentially. In addition, we improved operating efficiency by optimizing our asset and liability structure as well as operating cash flow.

我們很高興地報告，在這充滿挑戰的一年裡，我們的總型號出貨量比去年同期成長了 18.3%。由於第四季組件價格下降，我們加強了對成本和費用的控制，營業費用環比下降約27%。此外，我們透過優化資產負債結構和營運現金流，提高了經營效率。

At the end of the fourth quarter, our asset liability ratio was 72%, a significant improvement from 75% at the beginning of the year. Our cash and cash equivalents were $3.8 billion. We will continue to optimize our assets and liability structure and maintain healthy cash reserves in the new year, further strengthening our resilience to risks.

第四季末，我們的資產負債率為72%，較年初的75%有明顯改善。我們的現金和現金等價物為 38 億美元。新的一年我們將繼續優化資產負債結構，維持健康的現金儲備，進一步增強抗風險能力。

Let me go into more details now. Total revenue was $2.83 billion, down 15.7% sequentially, and down 37% year over year. Gross margin was 3.6% compared with 15.7% in the third quarter of '24 and 12.5% in the fourth quarter of '23. The sequential and year-over-year decreases were mainly due to the decrease in average selling price of solar modules.

現在讓我來更詳細地講解一下。總營收為 28.3 億美元，季減 15.7%，年減 37%。毛利率為 3.6%，而 24 年第三季為 15.7%，23 年第四季為 12.5%。環比和年減主要由於太陽能電池組件平均銷售價格下降。

Total operating expenses were about $380 million, down about 26% sequentially and same year over year. The sequential and the year-over-year decreases were mainly due to the decrease in shipping cost. Total freight expenses accounted for 13% of total revenues in the fourth quarter of '24 compared to 15% in the third quarter. Operating loss margin was 9.8% in the fourth quarter compared with the operating profit margin of 0.3% in the third quarter.

總營運費用約 3.8 億美元，較上一季下降約 26%，比去年同期下降約 3.8 億美元。環比和年減主要由於運輸成本下降。24年第四季，總運費支出佔總收入的13%，而第三季為15%。第四季營業虧損率為9.8%，而第三季營業利益率為0.3%。

Now, I'll brief you on our '24 full-year financial results. Total module shipments were 92.87 gigawatts, up 18.3% year over year. Total revenues were $12.64 billion down 22% year over year. For the full-year '24, gross profit was $1.4 billion, a decrease of 47% year over year. Gross margin was about 11% compared to 16% in the '23. The year-over-year decrease was mainly attributed to the decrease in the average selling price of modules.

現在，我將向大家簡要介紹我們24年的全年財務表現。總組件出貨量為92.87吉瓦，年增18.3%。總收入為 126.4 億美元，年減 22%。24年全年毛利為14億美元，年減47%。毛利率約 11%，而 23 年為 16%。年比下降主要由於組件平均銷售價格下降。

Total operating expenses were $1.84 billion, up about 4% year over year. The increase was mainly attributed to the write-off of network value of equipment resulting from the fire accident in Shanxi province, which was partially offset by the estimated insurance proceeds from the fire accident; and also, an increase in the impairment loss of lonely assets.

總營運費用為 18.4 億美元，年增約 4%。此增加主要由於山西省火災事故導致的設備網路價值註銷，但被火災事故預計保險收益部分抵銷；以及單獨資產減損損失的增加。

Operating loss margin for full year were 3.7% compared with operating profit margin of 5% for full year last year of '23. Excluding the impact from a changing fair value of notes and a change in fair value of long-term investment, also, our shared based compensation expenses, the net loss resulting from a fire accident in Shanxi province in April '24 and the impairment of long-lived assets, adjusted net income attribute to JinkoSolar Holding, ordinary shareholders was about $78.3 million in '24.

全年營業虧損率為 3.7%，而去年 23 年全年營業利益率為 5%。剔除票據公允價值變動和長期投資公允價值變動的影響，以及我們的共享薪酬費用、24年4月山西省火災事故造成的淨虧損以及長期資產減值，24年歸屬於晶科能源控股普通股股東的調整後淨利潤約為7,830萬美元。

Moving to the balance sheet. At the end of the fourth quarter of cash and cash equivalent were $3.8 billion and a significant increase compared with $3.2 billion at the end of third quarter of '24 and $2.7 billion at the end of fourth quarter of '23.

轉到資產負債表。第四季末的現金和現金等價物為 38 億美元，與 24 年第三季末的 32 億美元和 23 年第四季末的 27 億美元相比大幅增加。

AR turnover days were 80 days compared with 90 days in third quarter of '24. Inventory turnover days were 57 days compared with 66 days in the third quarter of '24 as a result of improved operating efficiency. At the end of the fourth quarter, total debt was $5.56 billion compared to $4.38 billion at the end of the fourth quarter of '23. Net debt was $1.76 billion compared to $1.63 billion at the end of the fourth quarter of '23.

應收帳款週轉天數為 80 天，而 24 年第三季為 90 天。由於營運效率的提高，庫存週轉天數為 57 天，而 24 年第三季為 66 天。截至第四季末，總負債為 55.6 億美元，而 23 年第四季末為 43.8 億美元。淨債務為 17.6 億美元，而 23 年第四季末為 16.3 億美元。

This concludes our prepared remarks. We are now happy to take your questions. Operator, please proceed.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束。我們現在很高興回答您的問題。接線員，請繼續。

(Operator Instructions) Brian Lee, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示） Brian Lee，高盛。

This is Tyler Bisset on for Brian. Thanks for taking our questions. We saw the US Department of Commerce recently increased import tariffs from Vietnam, so can you share what you are embedding in your guidance and the potential impact of these tariffs on your margins as well as any changes to your pricing strategy in the US this year?

這是泰勒比塞特 (Tyler Bisset) 為布萊恩 (Brian) 主持的節目。感謝您回答我們的問題。我們看到美國商務部最近提高了從越南進口的關稅，那麼您能否分享一下您的指導方針中包含的內容以及這些關稅對您的利潤率的潛在影響，以及今年您在美國定價策略的任何變化？

Sorry, can you rephrase your -- which tariff you are mentioning? Is that just AD/CVD or something else you are referring to?

抱歉，您能重新表達——您提到的是哪一種關稅嗎？您指的只是 AD/CVD 還是其他？

Yeah, the AD/CVD ones.

是的，AD/CVD 的。

Yeah, so AD/CVD. I think we have prepared all the solutions on that. So currently, we are not suffering on the AD/CVDs, so we are -- our current utilization in our US factories is full, and also we are utilizing the other supply chain to try to provide the solutions to US market without paying additional cost on the AD/CVD tariff.

是的，所以是 AD/CVD。我想我們已經準備好了所有解決方案。因此目前，我們並沒有受到反傾銷/反補貼稅的影響，我們目前在美國工廠的利用率是滿的，而且我們正在利用其他供應鏈，試圖向美國市場提供解決方案，而無需支付反傾銷/反補貼稅的額外成本。

So currently, we don't expect that that will bring us a big negative impact on our margins. However, the demand in US is the key factors. If the demand in the US market is weak, and it probably will bring the whole market headways on the margin side, but it's not quite related to the AD/CVDs.

因此目前，我們預計這不會對我們的利潤帶來重大負面影響。然而，美國的需求才是關鍵因素。如果美國市場的需求疲軟，那麼很可能就會為整個市場帶來利潤方面的下滑，但與AD/CVD關係不大。

Great. And then just on that topic, can you share your expectations for US shipments this year and whether you might (technical difficulty)?

偉大的。然後就這個主題，您能否分享一下今年美國出貨量的預期，以及您是否可能（技術難度）？

I don't think I got the full picture of your questions, but I guess your question is more about the shipment to US. Now it's still early to define our shipment volumes to US because the policy is still uncertain, so we have heard a lot of rumors which regarding the trade barriers regarding this IRAs. So we are still expecting a reasonable range, but how far it goes, we will try to define that that once the policy is clear and we can have more clarity on that.

我想我沒有完全了解您的問題，但我猜您的問題更多是關於運往美國的貨物。現在確定我們對美國的出貨量還為時過早，因為政策仍不確定，所以我們聽到了很多關於該 IRA 貿易壁壘的傳言。因此，我們仍然期待一個合理的範圍，但它會走多遠，我們將嘗試定義它，一旦政策明確，我們就可以對此有更清晰的認識。

Philip Shen, Roth Capital.

羅斯資本 (Roth Capital) 的 Philip Shen。

Just following up on the recent import -- recent CVD tariff. So you mentioned just now, Gener, that the -- you could serve the US with an alternative supply chain. Can you give us a little more clarity on that? Is it -- would you serve the US from -- is Saudi Arabia up and running yet? My sense is it might be -- might take a little more time. So just curious if you can share more color there.

只是跟進最近的進口——最近的 CVD 關稅。所以，Gener，您剛才提到，您可以透過替代供應鏈為美國提供服務。您能否對此做出更清晰的解釋？你會為美國服務嗎？沙烏地阿拉伯已經開始運作了嗎？我的感覺是這可能需要更多時間。所以只是好奇您是否可以分享更多顏色。

Yeah, sure. I think there are still quite a lot of availability capacities outside the AD/CVD scope which is, I think, four countries in Southeast Asia. So looking to the map, definitely -- I don't want to mention any particular countries or supplier names, but definitely we see quite several availabilities on the market which can supply to the US market, which can be a short-term solution. So for Jinko's strategy, we don't plan to invest on that, but we probably will hire some OEMs to try to utilize the short-term opportunity together with our IP strengths.

是的，當然。我認為在AD/CVD範圍之外仍有相當多的可用產能，我認為是東南亞四個國家。所以從地圖上看，肯定——我不想提及任何特定的國家或供應商名稱，但我們確實看到市場上有相當多的供應可以供應給美國市場，這可能是短期解決方案。因此，對於晶科能源的策略，我們不打算在這方面進行投資，但我們可能會聘請一些 OEM 廠商，嘗試利用短期機會和我們的智慧財產權優勢。

Okay, got it. Thank you. And then shifting over to pricing, was wondering if you could give -- well, actually let's focus on margins. In terms of your Q4 margin, I heard it was the weakness was driven primarily by price and maybe greater mix to China, so can you share what your expectation is for Q1 margin and then how you think that margin trends in Q2 and Q3.

好的，明白了。謝謝。然後轉到定價，想知道您是否可以提供——嗯，實際上讓我們專注於利潤率。就您第四季度的利潤率而言，我聽說利潤率疲軟主要是由於價格以及中國產品組合增加所致，那麼您能否分享一下您對第一季度利潤率的預期，以及您認為第二季度和第三季度的利潤率趨勢如何。

Philip, this is Charlie. And in terms of the outlook for the gross margins in the Q4 the fourth quarter last year it's a downward trend, right? And we have a lot of shipments in China, and the supply and with the demand imbalance put the market price under pressure. And the first quarter is slack season for the solar sectors we expected the gross margin and will continue to be moderately declined.

菲利普，這是查理。從去年第四季的毛利率前景來看，是呈下降趨勢的，對嗎？而且我們在中國的出貨量很大，供需失衡對市場價格帶來壓力。第一季是太陽能產業的淡季，我們預期毛利率將繼續適度下降。

With the improvement of the outlook and gradually -- we start gradually balance between the supply and the demand side and as well as China's push demand in the second quarter, the module price is gradually improved. So we expect the second quarter there is high -- higher opportunities. The gross margin will improve moderately.

隨著前景的改善和供需雙方開始逐步平衡，以及中國第二季的推動需求，模組價格逐漸改善。因此，我們預計第二季將有更高的機會。毛利率將適度提升。

But if you look for the long-term perspective, we strongly believe the solar sector is at the bottom side, and the top tier companies are very disciplined and in terms of output, in terms of pricing strategy, but it still takes time for the balance of -- particularly from supply side, for the long-term perspective, we are still optimistic.

但如果從長遠角度來看，我們堅信太陽能產業處於底部，頂級公司在產量和定價策略方面都非常自律，但平衡仍然需要時間——特別是從供應方面來看，就長期角度而言，我們仍然持樂觀態度。

Okay, thank you, Charlie. Hey, I want to make sure I heard you right. Did you say Q1 margins could be lower than Q4?

好的，謝謝你，查理。嘿，我想確認一下我聽清楚了你的意思。您是否說過第一季的利潤率可能低於第四季？

Yes, you're right. And it's a slack season and we expect several orders we signed this in the first half of last year, the price is relatively lower, and the volume is lower, and the gross margin expect relatively lower in the first quarter.

是的，你說得對。目前是淡季，我們預計去年上半年簽訂的幾筆訂單，價格相對較低，數量也較低，預計第一季的毛利率相對較低。

Got it. So we have negative margins?

知道了。那我們的利潤率是負數嗎？

Improved in the second quarter. Are we talking about net margin?

第二季度有所改善。我們談論的是淨利潤嗎？

No, we're talking about gross margins.

不，我們談論的是毛利率。

Sorry. Gross margin, yes, and the Q1 is slightly lower than Q4 and improve and moderately in second quarter, yeah.

對不起。是的，毛利率第一季略低於第四季度，第二季度有所改善，是的。

Okay. Thank you. One last housekeeping question, what's your expectation for CapEx for 2025?

好的。謝謝。最後一個問題，您對 2025 年的資本支出預期是什麼？

(multiple speakers) For CapEx in '25, and we are expected it will be much lower than this year. It's approximately RMB4 billion to RMB5 billion, yeah.

（多位發言者）對於 25 年的資本支出，我們預計它將比今年低得多。大概是40億到50億元吧。

Okay. Great. Thank you for taking my questions. I'll pass it on.

好的。偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。我會傳達的。

Alan Lau, Jefferies.

傑富瑞 (Jefferies) 的艾倫劉 (Alan Lau)。

Thanks for taking my question. So I would like to follow up Phil's question on margin. So -- because the margin in 4Q was affected by a couple of things like higher China shipment and module prices was lower. So 2Q is expected to be better, but how about the second half, considering -- because before we were discussing there might be more US shipments in the second half and utilization rates are likely to be higher in the second half as well. We'd like to know what's the view after 2Q in terms of the margin.

感謝您回答我的問題。因此，我想跟進菲爾關於保證金的問題。因此，因為第四季度的利潤率受到了一些因素的影響，例如中國出貨量增加和模組價格下降。因此預計第二季度的情況會更好，但考慮到下半年的情況如何——因為之前我們討論過下半年美國的出貨量可能會更多，而且下半年的利用率也可能會更高。我們想知道第二季之後的利潤率如何。

Yeah, it depends on the market situation in the second half year, but we expect maybe a little bit soft in demand in third quarter after the push demand from China, but pick up in the fourth quarter. But the most important thing is the capacity phase out, industries and the demands gradually pick up and including the US. US now the policy is uncertain. It's not only the AD/CVD, it includes the tariffs, reciprocal tariffs, [aluminum] tariffs, a lot of uncertainties, but we expect after the policy to be finalized.

是的，這取決於下半年的市場情況，但我們預計，在受到中國需求推動後，第三季需求可能會略有疲軟，但第四季需求會回升。但最重要的是產能逐步退出，產業和需求逐漸回暖，包括美國。美國現在的政策還不確定。這不僅是反傾銷/反補貼稅，還包括關稅、互惠關稅、[鋁]關稅，有許多不確定因素，但我們預計政策將最終確定。

The US, from a long-term perspective, we are very optimistic given the AI innovate innovations and the leading significant demand in electricity. For the short term, the first-half year with US we expect a relatively soft, but it's highly possible and it's going to improve after the finalization of the policies.

從長遠來看，我們對美國非常樂觀，因為美國有人工智慧創新和電力的巨大需求。就短期而言，我們預計今年上半年與美國的貿易將相對疲軟，但這種可能性很大，而且在政策最終確定後將有所改善。

Yeah, thank you. And following on the previous buyback -- share buyback plan, would like to know after the restart announcement right now, will the company start buyback and also, would there be another period of blackout after March 31, which is a couple of days from now. So how does the management consider in terms of the buyback pace? And is it linked to the issuance of GDR of the Asia subsidiary?

是的，謝謝。並且根據先前的回購計劃，我想知道在重啟公告發布後，公司是否會開始回購，以及在 3 月 31 日之後是否還會有另一段停牌期，也就是從現在起的幾天后。那麼管理階層對於回購步伐是如何考慮的呢？是否和亞洲子公司發行GDR有關？

It's not necessarily linked to the GDR timetables, and we plan to increase total shareholder returns this year up to USD200 million and including a dividend and including the repurchase of shares. And we believe we have sufficient cash positions, including the US holding companies has USD120 million cash. And for the ecosystem investment portfolio, financial investment, we have roughly I think USD115 million and we're trying to divest of the ecosystem of the investment.

這不一定與 GDR 時間表相關，我們計劃今年將股東總回報提高至 2 億美元，其中包括股息和回購股票。而且我們相信我們有足夠的現金頭寸，其中美國控股公司擁有1.2億美元現金。對於生態系統投資組合，我們的財務投資大約有 1.15 億美元，我們正試圖剝離對生態系統的投資。

And in terms of timings and -- it's a very short time window this quarter, because it's going to be -- it's reaching to the end of the first quarter. So I don't believe we have sufficient days to start the repurchase of the shares this quarter after Q1 earning release and I think we are thinking of both those dividends and repurchase of shares.

就時間而言，本季的時間窗口非常短，因為它將持續到第一季末。因此，我認為我們沒有足夠的時間在第一季收益發布後開始回購股票，我認為我們正在考慮股息和回購股票。

So just to confirm, first of all, it's not related to GDR, right?

所以首先要確認的是，這與 GDR 無關，對嗎？

Yes. And I don't -- we don't believe that's related to GDR. GDR each year is planning to issue the ADR in Germany and by the US and I don't believe that is as relevant because we plan to divest the ecosystem investment and it's -- we have some portfolio companies which has been invested in Asia and we take a minority interest and we can cash-out the investment.

是的。我不認為這與德意志民主共和國 (GDR) 有關。GDR 每年計劃在德國和美國發行 ADR，但我認為這並不那麼重要，因為我們計劃剝離生態系統投資——我們有一些投資組合公司已在亞洲投資，我們持有少數股權，我們可以套現投資。

Understood. So first of all, the company already has $120 million in holdco, and secondly, would like to know is there any lockup period in terms of the minority financial investment in Asia? Because sometimes there may be lockup period.

明白了。那麼首先，該公司已經擁有 1.2 億美元的控股權，其次，想知道在亞洲的少數金融投資方面是否有鎖定期？因為有時候可能會有鎖定期。

Some of the investments it did have some lockup period but some of the investment we tried to do the private sale, and we have completed two private -- one private sale and one public sale around USD10 million in the first quarter, but some of the investments, we are not able to share until the fourth quarter of this year. But it's under our schedule.

有些投資確實有鎖定期，但有些投資我們嘗試進行私募，我們在第一季完成了兩次私募——一次私募和一次公開出售，總額約為 1000 萬美元，但有些投資我們要到今年第四季才能分享。但這在我們的計劃之內。

That's right. I think the next question is about the China supply side reform policies because there has been a lot of discussions on government policies. Would like to know the company's view given that Jinko is the leader in the self-discipline initiative. Would like to know, do you see any policies coming out from the government as well?

這是正確的。我認為下一個問題是關於中國供給面改革政策，因為關於政府政策已經有很多討論。鑑於晶科能源是這項自律行動的領導者，我想了解該公司的看法。想知道，您是否也看到政府推出什麼政策？

We are not in a position to comment the details, but again, I think the solar sector, the EV sector is a key sector. I think the government keeps an eye and I think in the last national [NPC] meetings, there is some kind of general release from the government, and we would expect some supply reform policies coming out.

我們無法評論細節，但我再次認為太陽能產業、電動車產業是關鍵產業。我認為政府正在密切關注，我認為在最近的全國會議上，政府將會發布某種總體消息，我們預計會出台一些供給面改革政策。

Thank you. My last question is about updates on the Saudi capacity. Like is it on schedule to be completed by first quarter of 2026 and like how is the orders contracted in that plant?

謝謝。我的最後一個問題是關於沙烏地阿拉伯產能的最新情況。例如，它是否能按計劃在 2026 年第一季完工，以及該工廠的訂單簽約情況如何？

Saudi's Super Factory strategic move for Jinko to do the globalizations and we work with PIF and resi industries. And now it's in the early preparation stage and there are a lot of work in progress and we target to break the ground by the end of second quarter and we expect the fully operational and ramp up will be the end of next year.

沙烏地超級工廠是晶科能源全球化佈局的策略性舉措，我們與PIF、房地產產業展開合作。現在它正處於早期準備階段，大量工作正在進行中，我們的目標是在第二季末破土動工，並預計全面投入營運和產能提升將在明年年底完成。

Thank you. I'll pass on. Thanks a lot, Charlie.

謝謝。我會傳承下去。非常感謝，查理。

Rajiv Chaudhri, Sunsara Capital.

Rajiv Chaudhri，Sunsara Capital。

I have a couple of questions. The first is about market share. If last year 2024 was around 600 to 625 gigawatts, and you can confirm that number, and this year we're expecting 700 gigawatts, then I'm curious why you think that your market share this year will actually be slightly down or not more than flat from last year? Actually, you're saying that your market share will be slightly down, so could you elaborate on that, please?

我有幾個問題。第一是關於市場佔有率。如果去年 2024 年的發電量約為 600 至 625 吉瓦，並且您可以確認這個數字，而今年我們預計發電量為 700 吉瓦，那麼我很好奇，您為什麼認為今年的市場份額實際上會比去年略有下降或持平？實際上，您說您的市場份額會略有下降，您能詳細說明一下嗎？

Rajiv, I think, we didn't look at from that perspective. We did expect the total market size will improve moderately but not significantly this year. And what we guide is a kind of very broad range, 85 gigawatts to 100 gigawatts. And the industry is under the consolidation stage. The more important thing is we keep the investment on the technology and capabilities and to make Jinko have the capabilities to go through the cycles.

拉吉夫，我認為，我們並沒有從那個角度來看這個問題。我們確實預計今年整個市場規模將適度成長，但不會顯著增加。我們指導的範圍非常廣泛，從85千兆瓦到100千兆瓦。目前，該產業正處於整合階段。更重要的是我們持續對技術和能力的投入，讓晶科具備跨越週期的能力。

So we don't believe that is so important. We put -- we stick to some fixed numbers of market share. And after the consolidations, I think Jinko will be in a good position to increase the market shares. So I think our marketing department has a long-term vision and we are able to achieve 20% to 25% global market share from the long-term perspective.

因此我們認為這並不是那麼重要。我們堅持固定的市場佔有率。合併之後，我認為晶科能源將處於有利地位來增加市場份額。所以我認為我們的市場部門有長遠的眼光，從長遠來看，我們能夠實現20%到25%的全球市場份額。

Okay. So you're saying that even though in the near term your market share may not go up, but you are basically letting the people who have the highest costs and the highest losses to sell whatever they can produce this year, and then you'll be back in subsequent years.

好的。所以你的意思是，儘管在短期內你的市場份額可能不會上升，但你基本上是讓那些成本最高、損失最大的人賣掉他們今年生產的任何產品，然後你會在接下來的幾年裡回到原來的水平。

Another question is on depreciation. Could you give the number for the fourth quarter and for 2025?

另一個問題是關於折舊。您能給出第四季和 2025 年的數字嗎？

Yeah, maybe Pan will provide your numbers.

是的，也許潘會提供你的數字。

Okay. Thank you for your question. We have -- the number would be approximately RMB1.6 billion to RMB1.7 billion in the Q4.

好的。感謝您的提問。第四季的數字約為人民幣 16 億元至人民幣 17 億元。

And can you give the number for the expectation for '25, 2025?

您能給出 2025 年的預期數字嗎？

Rajiv, this number is still on -- it's still pending for check for the 2025.

拉吉夫，這個號碼仍然有效 - 仍在等待 2025 年的檢查。

Okay, a final question, can you talk about free cash flow expectations for 2025?

好的，最後一個問題，您能談談 2025 年的自由現金流預期嗎？

Rajiv, from the operating cash flow perspective, we target to be positive and this year, you understand, and it's still a challenging year, particularly we believe the first-half year. And from an operational perspective, we try to, let's say, improve the cash inflow and as well as cutting operating expenses and to achieve at least the positive operating cash flows.

拉吉夫，從經營現金流的角度來看，我們的目標是實現積極的結果，你知道，今年仍然是充滿挑戰的一年，特別是我們認為的上半年。從營運角度來看，我們試圖改善現金流入，並削減營運費用，以至少實現正的營運現金流。

And for the CapEx, we estimate RMB4 billion and which is focused on the upgraded TOPcon technology and make sure Jinko is in the best position to [indeed] from the product perspective, as well as some automation upgrades and to further reduce our production cost.

而對於資本支出，我們預計為40億元人民幣，重點用於升級TOPcon技術，確保晶科在產品角度處於最佳位置，以及進行一些自動化升級，進一步降低我們的生產成本。

So back to pricing. Free cash flow may be negative, but not so significant. And if the outlook and the supply-demand balance situation improves significantly, we expect we will achieve better numbers. But now we paid conservative approach.

回到定價問題。自由現金流可能為負，但卻不那麼重要。如果前景和供需平衡狀況顯著改善，我們預期我們將取得更好的業績。但現在我們採取了保守的態度。

And if you look at last year even, we did deliver a very good operating cash flow, roughly RMB8.5 billion, which is roughly RMB9 billion CapEx. Free cash flow is neat and kind of near to zero. But this year 2025, I think we focus on the key operating metrics, operating cash flows.

如果你看看去年，我們確實實現了非常好的經營現金流，約為人民幣 85 億元，相當於 90 億元人民幣的資本支出。自由現金流很平穩，接近零。但今年 2025 年，我認為我們將重點放在關鍵營運指標——營運現金流。

Thank you.

謝謝。

There are no further questions at this time, and that does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

現在沒有其他問題了，今天的會議就到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的翻譯人員說的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。