ORIX Corp (IX) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

It's time to begin the meeting. Thank you very much for taking time over your very busy schedule to join us, for the ORIX Corporation third quarter earnings call for fiscal year ending March 2025. I'm the master of ceremony today. My name is Nakane from IR Sustainability department. Thank you for this opportunity.

會議該開始啦。非常感謝您在百忙之中抽空參加歐力士股份有限公司截至2025年3月的財年第三季財報電話會議。今天我是司儀。我叫 Nakane，來自 IR 永續發展部門。謝謝你給我這個機會。

And today we have Operating Officer in charge of IR, Kazuki Yamamoto participating in this meeting. And before we begin, we would like to ask the participants to make sure to turn off any communication devices such as a mobile phone, nearby in order to prevent feedback or keep it away from the phone.

今天我們有負責 IR 的營運官 Kazuki Yamamoto 參加本次會議。在開始之前，我們希望參與者確保關閉附近的任何通訊設備，例如手機，以防止回饋或將其遠離手機。

Mr. Moto's presentation will be followed by Q&A. Yamamoto-san, please start.

Moto 先生的演講之後將進行問答。請山本先生開始。

Thank you for the introduction. Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule today to join us in the ORIX Group's financial briefing. My name is Kazuki Yamamoto, and I'm in charge of Corporate Planning & Investor Relations.

謝謝你的介紹。非常感謝您今天在百忙之中抽空參加歐力士集團的財務說明會。我叫山本一樹，負責企業規劃和投資人關係。

Without further ado, I would now like to explain our financial results for the third quarter of the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025, announced back at 3:00 today.

事不宜遲，現在我想解釋一下我們今天 3:00 公佈的截至 2025 年 3 月 31 日的財政年度第三季的財務業績。

Please turn to page 2 of the presentation material. First, let me explain the main points I would like to convey today. First, I will discuss net income. Net income for the third quarter was JPY88.8 billion while the cumulative total for the nine months ending in December 2024 was JPY271.8 billion, which is up 24% year-over-year, and this is an annualized ROE of 9%. And this is a progress of 70% toward the full year FY25 March end and net income target of JPY390 billion. This is also a record high for the nine months year-to-date period.

請翻到簡報資料第 2 頁。首先，我先講一下今天要表達的要點。首先，我來討論一下淨收入。第三季淨收入為 888 億日元，截至 2024 年 12 月的九個月累計總額為 2,718 億日元，年增 24%，年化 ROE 為 9%。這距 3 月底的 25 財年全年淨收入目標 3,900 億日圓已完成了 70%。這也是今年迄今九個月以來的最高紀錄。

The second point is regarding progress in the three portfolio categories. The finance category continued to be a stable source of earnings. The increase in insurance investment income and other factors offset the decrease in profit caused by the transition of ORIX credit into an equity method affiliate.

第二點是關於三個投資組合類別的進展。金融類股持續成為穩定的獲利來源。保險投資收益增加等因素抵消了歐力士信貸轉為權益法核算子公司造成的利潤減少。

In the operations category, in addition to the recovery in the performance of asset management and airport operations, some Santoku shipping contributed to profit. In investment, ORIX recorded investment gains in each quarter in multiple segments, including domestic PE, real estate and overseas renewable energy. So as a result, we have managed to achieve the results that I have announced earlier, which is a 24% increase year-over-year.

在營運類別中，除了資產管理、機場營運等業績回升外，部分三德航運也貢獻了利潤。投資方面，歐力士在國內PE、房地產、海外再生能源等多個領域均取得投資收益。因此，我們成功實現了我先前宣布的業績，即年成長 24%。

The third topic is shareholder return. As of December 2024, we completed JPY50 billion in share repurchases, the upper limit of the buyback program announced in May of last year. Our policy has been to limit total holdings of treasury stock to 5% of total shares outstanding and that any holdings exceeding 5% will be canceled. While this policy remains unchanged, we have decided to cancel treasury stocks exceeding 2% of total shares outstanding in order to refrain ourselves from holding in excess of what we need to hold on to. Full year dividend will remain unchanged from the higher of either the previous year's actual DPS or a payout ratio of 39% of net income.

第三個話題是股東回報。截至2024年12月，我們完成了500億日圓的股票回購，這是去年5月宣布的回購計畫的上限。我們的政策是將庫存股的總持有量限制在總流通股數的 5%，超過 5% 的任何持有量都將被取消。在這個保單保持不變的情況下，我們決定取消超過總流通股數 2% 的庫存股，以避免持有超過我們需要持有的股票。全年股息將保持不變，與上一年的實際每股股息或 39% 的淨收入派息率（以較高者為準）相同。

Please turn to the next page. As I mentioned earlier, net income for the nine months period ended December 2024 increased by 24% year-by-year to JPY271.8 billion. Annualized ROE was 9%. Our performance through the third quarter has been solid, and we are aiming to achieve record high net income for the full year.

請翻到下一頁。正如我之前提到的，截至2024年12月的九個月的淨收入年增24%至2718億日圓。年化淨資產報酬率為 9%。我們第三季的業績表現穩健，我們的目標是全年淨收入創歷史新高。

Now please see page 4. On this page, we explain the progress for each of the three categories versus our annual target. The bar chart on the left shows nine months results for FY24 March end and FY25 March end. And the bar chart on the right shows the full year results for the FY24 March end and our FY25 March end forecast.

現在請參閱第 4 頁。在此頁面上，我們將解釋三個類別相對於我們的年度目標的進展。左側的長條圖顯示了 FY24 3月底和 FY25 3月底的九個月業績。右側的長條圖顯示了截至 2024 財年 3 月底的全年業績以及我們對 2025 財年 3 月底的預測。

Now today, I will use the chart on the left, which shows the cumulative third quarter results. First, the top dark blue color is finance. Segment profit decreased by 3% year-over-year to JPY137.1 billion and the progress rate versus the full year forecast was 69%.

今天，我將使用左邊的圖表，它顯示的是第三季的累積業績。首先，最上面的深藍色是金融。分部利潤年減3%至1,371億日圓，與全年預測相比的進度率為69%。

ORIX credit profit was included in the finance category until FY24 March end, as I had shared earlier. But from this period, the credit business has been included in the investment category. Taking this into account, higher investment income in life insurance segment contributed to profit growth.

正如我之前所分享的，歐力士信貸利潤一直包含在財務類別中，直到24財年3月底。但從這段時期起，信貸業務被納入投資範疇。考慮到這一點，人壽保險部門的更高投資收入促進了利潤成長。

Next, the pale-blue bar chart, which is second from the top, is operations. Segment income increased by 2% year-over-year to JPY161.4 billion and progress versus the full year forecast was 67%. In addition to strong performance in airport concessions, thanks to inbound travel, profits from the asset management business expanded.

接下來，從上往下第二個淡藍色長條圖是營運圖。分部營收年增2%至1,614億日元，較全年預測成長67%。除機場特許經營業務表現強勁外，受惠於入境旅遊，資產管理業務利潤亦有所擴大。

Moreover, Santoku shipping, which joined ORIX group in the previous fiscal year, also continued to year-over-year growth in this category, so did Rentec as well as Auto. Finally, the dark pink part, which is third from the top, is investments. Segment income increased by 86% year-over-year to JPY129 billion with investments showing a significant increase due to exits in several projects.

此外，上一財年加入歐力士集團的三德航運也在該類別中保持了同比增長，Rentec 和 Auto 也是如此。最後，從上往下第三個深粉紅色部分是投資。由於多個項目退出，投資大幅增加，分部收入較去年同期成長 86% 至 1,290 億日圓。

The progress rate was 69%. As a result, in the fourth quarter, as to the renewable energy, Greenko, in fact, is expected to be divested and that is to be incorporated. So as a result, total segment profit increased by 16% year-over-year to JPY427.5 billion.

進展率為69%。因此，在第四季度，就再生能源而言，Greenko 實際上預計將被剝離並納入。因此，總分部獲利年增16%至4275億日圓。

Now please turn to page 5. This page updates ROA and asset size for each of the three categories. In the finance category, we expect stable earnings supported by changes in the macroeconomic environment, although there are some differences in policies in each region. In the operations category, airport concessions, as we have shared earlier, and real estate facilities operations in Japan are healthy and the asset management business in Europe is driving growth. In the investment category, we will continue to improve profitability by promoting capital recycling.

現在請翻到第 5 頁。此頁面更新三個類別的 ROA 和資產規模。金融領域，雖然各地區的政策存在一些差異，但我們預期在宏觀經濟環境變化的支持下，獲利將保持穩定。在營運類別中，正如我們之前所分享的，日本的機場特許經營和房地產設施運營狀況良好，歐洲的資產管理業務正在推動成長。在投資領域，我們將繼續透過推動資金循環來提高獲利能力。

Now please to page 6. This page shows the 3 categories and 10 segments in matrix format. There is no change from the previous version.

現在請翻到第 6 頁。此頁以矩陣形式顯示 3 個類別和 10 個部分。與前一個版本相比沒有變化。

Now on page 7, the slide, in fact, explains the progress in capital recycling. Capital gains was JPY95.5 billion for the nine months ended December 2024. Cash in first from sales was approximately JPY370 billion for Q1 to Q3, while new transactions amounted to approximately JPY430 billion.

現在在第 7 頁，幻燈片實際上解釋了資本循環的進展。截至 2024 年 12 月的九個月，資本利得為 955 億日圓。第一季至第三季銷售現金約3,700億日圓，新交易現金約4,300億日圓。

In the third quarter, in addition to the partial sales of shares of Ormat, New York Stock Exchange-listed geothermal energy company, we announced the signing of a share transfer agreement for Greenko and a new investment in AM Green.

第三季度，除了出售紐約證券交易所上市的地熱能源公司Ormat部分股份外，我們還宣布簽署Greenko的股份轉讓協議，並對AM Green進行新的投資。

As announced in our press release of January 20, 2024, (sic - see press release, "2025") the share transfer agreement for Greenko and the new investment in AM Green are subject to the conditions of obtaining a license under the Indian competition law and matters related to the financing for the transferee, and thereby, it is not incorporated in the third quarter results.

正如我們在 2024 年 1 月 20 日的新聞稿中宣布的那樣（原文如此 - 參見新聞稿“2025”），Greenko 的股份轉讓協議和對 AM Green 的新投資均受根據印度競爭法獲得許可的條件以及與受讓人融資相關的事項的約束，因此，它未納入第三季度業績。

The amount of impact on business performance has not yet been determined as the gain on the sales will fluctuate depending on ForEx and other factors. However, based on the exchange rate as of January 16, 2025, which is JPY156.4 to $1, we expect a gain on the sale before deducting various expenses to be approximately JPY96.5 billion. And in addition, the amount of AM Green's convertible bonds that is to be underwritten will be USD731 million. Now as for capital recycling, we will continue to execute new investments while maintaining a balance between divestments and acquisitions, primarily in the investments category.

由於銷售收益將根據外匯和其他因素而波動，因此對業務績效的影響程度尚未確定。然而，根據 2025 年 1 月 16 日的匯率（即 1 美元兌 156.4 日圓），我們預計扣除各種費用前的銷售收益約為 965 億日圓。此外，AM Green擬承銷的可轉債金額為7.31億美元。現在至於資本循環，我們將繼續進行新的投資，同時保持撤資和收購之間的平衡，主要是在投資類別。

Page 8 and 9 are summaries of segment information. While details for each segment, the 10 segments, are available on page 12 and beyond, I will use pages 8 and 9 to explain the summary. First is the corporate financial services and maintenance leasing segment. Segment income increased JPY5.6 billion or 9% from the same period last year to JPY66.2 billion.

第 8 頁及第 9 頁為分部資訊摘要。雖然每個部分（10 個部分）的詳細資訊可在第 12 頁及以後找到，但我將使用第 8 頁和第 9 頁來解釋摘要。首先是企業金融服務和維修租賃板塊。分部營收較去年同期增加56億日元，增幅9%，至662億日圓。

In addition to gain on the sales of an investee in the corporate financial services unit, ORIX Auto continued to post strong performance in used car sales, while car rentals were also strong on expansion in inbound travel and a recovery in domestic travel. Rentec also reported an increase in profit driven by Windows PC replacement demand and also the divestment of some of the facilities. These also had proven to be the tailwind for the business. Segment assets were JPY1.8402 trillion, which is up JPY62.9 billion from the end of the previous period.

除企業金融服務部門投資對象的銷售收益外，歐力士汽車在二手車銷售方面持續表現強勁，而汽車租賃業務也因入境遊擴張和國內遊復甦而表現強勁。Rentec 還報告稱，受 Windows PC 更換需求以及部分設施剝離的推動，其利潤有所增長。事實證明，這些也是業務的順風。分部資產18,402億日元，較上期末增加629億日圓。

The real estate segment was -- profit increased by JPY7.4 billion or 14% to JPY59.7 billion compared to the same period last year. The real estate investment and facilities operations unit posted higher profits, thanks to the sales of a large multipurpose property, Hundred Circus and investment condominiums as well as strong performance at hotels and in facilities operations.

房地產部門利潤較去年同期增加74億日元，增幅14%，至597億日圓。房地產投資和設施營運部門的利潤有所增加，這要歸功於大型多用途地產、百馬戲團和投資公寓的銷售，以及酒店和設施運營的強勁表現。

In the facilities operations business, the large-scale renovation of Suginoi-Hotel that started in 2019 has been completed. And the third new guest room building, more than 300 guest rooms, Hoshi Kan, opened on January 23, 2025.

在設施營運業務方面，2019年開始的杉乃井飯店大規模翻新工程已完工。另外，擁有300多間客房的第三棟新客房大樓「星館」將於2025年1月23日開幕。

On February 3, ORIX Real Estate Investment Advisors announced the launch of ORIVA, the company's first capital commitment-based real estate fund with an asset size of JPY100 billion. ORIVA invests in real estate in Japan, primarily focusing on office, logistics and residential properties. It is a diversified fund that seeks to secure earnings and investment returns by actively improving profitability and enhancing property value.

2月3日，歐力士房地產投資顧問公司宣布推出該公司首支資本承諾型房地產基金ORIVA，資產規模為1,000億日圓。奧利瓦在日本投資房地產，主要專注於辦公室、物流和住宅物業。這是一支多元化基金，旨在透過積極提高獲利能力和提升資產價值來確保收益和投資回報。

Several domestic institutional investors, including financial and business corporations, participated in the plant. Although profit of DAIKYO decreased year-over-year for the nine months ended December 2024, but we expect an increase in the number of units delivered in the fourth quarter.

包括金融和商業公司在內的多家國內機構投資者參與了該工廠。儘管截至 2024 年 12 月的九個月內 DAIKYO 的利潤同比下降，但我們預計第四季度交付的單位數量將增加。

Segment -- so for the condominium business, just like the others, it is trending well. As for the segment assets of Real Estate, it rose to JPY1.1521 trillion, up JPY42 billion from the end of the previous period.

細分市場 — — 因此，對於公寓業務而言，就像其他業務一樣，其趨勢良好。房地產分部資產則升至11,521億日圓，較上期末增加420億日圓。

Now the next is profit in the PE and concession segment, which increased by JPY42.8 billion or by 184% year-over-year to JPY66.2 billion. In the PE investment unit, in addition to the gain from the sales of Sasaeah Holdings, higher earnings from PE investees contributed to the increase in segment profit.

接下來是PE和特許經營部門的利潤，年增428億日元，達到662億日元，增幅184%。在私募股權投資部門，除了出售Sasaeah Holdings的收益外，來自自私募股權投資公司的更高收益也推動了部門利潤的成長。

In the concession unit, Kansai International Airport continued to perform well. The ground reopening of the Terminal 1 building, which has been under renovation since May 2019, is now scheduled for March 27, 2025. This is expected to increase the overall international passenger capacity of Kansai International Airport to about 40 million or so. And in addition, Kansai International Airport should be able to respond to the needs as a result of the expo that is to be held this year.

在特許經營部門，關西國際機場持續表現良好。自 2019 年 5 月開始翻修的 1 號航站樓地面重新開放時間定於 2025 年 3 月 27 日。預計這將使關西國際機場整體的國際旅客容量增加至約4,000萬人次左右。此外，關西國際機場也應該能夠滿足今年舉辦的世博會帶來的需求。

Segment assets in the PE and Concessions segment were JPY981.8 billion, down JPY84.8 billion from the end of the previous period, mainly due to the sales of Sasaeah Holdings. Profit in the environment and energy segment decreased by JPY12.7 billion from the same period last year to JPY17.2 billion (sic - see slide 18, "JPY13.2 billion") In Japan, the business was impacted by lower profitability in the electric power retail business and increased reconstruction costs of existing facilities. Although the overseas renewable energy business posted losses in the first half, gains on the sale of Ormat shares and valuation gains on the remaining stake pushed it up back to profitability.

PE與特許經營分部的分部資產為9,818億日元，較上期末減少848億日元，主要由於Sasaeah控股的出售。環境與能源部門的利潤較去年同期減少 127 億日圓，至 172 億日圓（原文如此 - 請參閱投影片 18，「132 億日圓」）在日本，該業務受到電力零售業務盈利能力下降和現有設施重建成本增加的影響。儘管海外再生能源業務上半年出現虧損，但出售Ormat股份的收益以及剩餘股權的估值收益使其重新實現盈利。

As mentioned earlier, we have decided to sell our shares of Greenko, the renewable energy company in India, which invested in March '21 and to reinvest in AM Green as part of our capital recycling efforts. By investing in this next-generation energy business, which has high growth potential in areas such as green ammonia and green hydrogen, we aim to contribute to a sustainable society through our business activities.

如前所述，我們決定出售我們在 21 年 3 月投資的印度再生能源公司 Greenko 的股份，並將其再投資於 AM Green，作為我們資本循環利用工作的一部分。透過投資在綠色氨和綠色氫等領域具有高成長潛力的下一代能源業務，我們旨在透過我們的業務活動為永續發展的社會做出貢獻。

Segment assets fell to JPY955 billion, down slightly from the end of the previous year mainly due to the partial sale of Ormat shares. Profit in the insurance segment increased by JPY7.7 billion or by 14% to JPY61.7 billion, compared to the same period last year. There's a diversification in asset management led to higher profits, which allowed ORIX Life to outperform the previous year's results, which were strong.

分部資產下降至9550億日元，較上年末略有下降，主要由於出售部分Ormat股份。保險業務利潤較去年同期增加77億日圓，增幅14%，至617億日圓。資產管理的多元化帶來更高的利潤，使得歐力士人壽的表現超越了去年的強勁表現。

Sales of Moonshot, a single payment whole life insurance policy launched in November, were robust as well. Segment assets increased JPY83.4 billion from the end of the previous period to JPY3.0053 trillion because of asset management growth.

11 月推出的一次性付款終身壽險產品 Moonshot 的銷售也十分強勁。由於資產管理規模成長，分部資產較上期末增加834億日元，至30053億日圓。

Moving on to banking and credit segment. Profit in segment decreased by JPY53 billion (sic - see slide 8 "JPY5.3 billion") to JPY22.1 billion compared to the same period last year due to lower contributions from ORIX credit.

轉向銀行和信貸領域。由於歐力士信貸貢獻減少，該部門利潤與去年同期相比減少 530 億日元（原文如此 - 見幻燈片 8“53 億日元”）至 221 億日元。

Segment assets increased by JPY126.6 billion from the end of previous year to JPY3.0608 trillion as a result of asset growth in the merchant banking business, while ORIX Bank continued its policy of increasing profitability through efficient asset turnover.

分部資產較上年末增加1,266億日元，達到3.0,608萬億日元，這得益於商業銀行業務資產的增長，同時歐力士銀行繼續推行通過高效的資產週轉來提高盈利能力的政策。

Both ORIX Life and ORIX Bank do not possess large fixed cost burden such as branch network. We aim to grow corporate value in these businesses together with our customers, aided by both product diversification and new client acquisition.

歐力士人壽及歐力士銀行均不具備分行網路等較大的固定成本負擔。我們的目標是透過產品多樣化和新客戶獲取，與我們的客戶一起提升這些業務的企業價值。

Profit in the aircraft and ships segment increased by JPY15.6 billion or by 54% to JPY44.6 billion compared to the same period last year. Aircraft and Avolon both saw year-on-year gains capturing growth in global air passenger demand. The ship unit also reported significant increase in profit due in part to contributions from Santoku Senpaku, which joined the group during the previous fiscal year. Segment assets as a result increased JPY156 billion from the end of previous period to JPY1.3256 trillion. Of this amount, JPY44.6 billion was attributable to changes in ForEx.

飛機與船舶部門利潤較去年同期增加156億日圓，增幅54%，至446億日圓。由於全球航空客運需求的成長，Aircraft 和 Avolon 的業績均較去年同期成長。船舶部門也報告利潤大幅增加，部分原因是由於上一財年加入集團的三德船務公司 (Santoku Senpaku) 的貢獻。因此，分部資產較上期末增加1,560億日圓，達到1.3,256兆日圓。其中，446億日圓歸因於外匯變動。

Profit in the ORIX USA segment decreased by 22% to JPY27.8 billion compared to the same period last year. Of the three business lines, private credit showed solid profitability when last year's investment gain is excluded. Private credit is generally robust.

歐力士美國分部利潤較去年同期下降22%至278億日圓。在這三條業務線中，扣除去年的投資收益，私人信貸業務的獲利能力十分穩健。私人信貸整體強勁。

Real estate mortgage profits were lower owing to prolonged higher interest rates, but origination volumes are recovering. It has already hit bottom according to the signs. We believe that origination will be of higher profitability moving forward.

由於利率長期居高不下，房地產抵押貸款利潤較低，但貸款發放量正在回升。種種跡象表明，它已經觸底。我們相信，未來發起的獲利能力將會更高。

PE in US increased due to the gain on sale recorded in Q3. We are seeing signs of improvement slowly, but surely in the whole business environment. ORIX USA profits and assets by business line are shown on page 27 for your reference. Segment assets were mostly flat compared to the end of the previous period at JPY1.694 trillion. Change in FX amounted to JPY72.5 billion and assets on US dollar-denominated basis decreased.

由於第三季的銷售收益，美國的本益比有所增加。我們看到整個商業環境正在緩慢但穩定地改善。ORIX USA 依業務線劃分的利潤及資產列於第 27 頁，供您參考。分部資產與上期末相比基本持平，為1.694兆日圓。外匯變動額為725億日元，美元計價資產減少。

Moving on to ORIX Europe's segment profit. The profit was an increase of JPY7.7 billion, up 25% from the same period last year to excuse me, JPY38.1 billion. AUM benefited from favorable market conditions to reach a record of JPY379 billion, and profits rose on an increase in fee income. Robeco's trend recorded performance fees, which also contributed. And net inflows for Robeco group were strong and trended positive for the second consecutive quarter. The operating environment is positive.

繼續討論歐力士歐洲的分部利潤。利潤增加了77億日元，比去年同期的381億日元增加了25％。管理資產規模受惠於有利的市場環境，營業利潤達到創紀錄的3,790億日元，且費用收入增加導致利潤上升。Robeco 的趨勢記錄了績效費用，這也有所貢獻。Robeco 集團的淨流入資金強勁，連續第二季呈現正面趨勢。經營環境良好。

Segment assets increased by JPY53.5 billion from the end of the previous period to JPY715.6 billion. Last but not least, Asia and Australia segment, the profit in this segment decreased by 7% year-on-year to JPY27.9 billion. Although leasing income increased in South Korea, India and Australia, business confidence remained weak in Greater China. And the segment recorded a decrease in profits mainly due to higher credit costs.

分部資產較上期末增加535億日圓至7,156億日圓。最後，亞洲及澳洲分部，該分部獲利年減7%至279億日圓。雖然韓國、印度和澳洲的租賃收入增加，但大中華區的商業信心仍然疲軟。該部門利潤下降主要是由於信貸成本上升。

Mainland China and Hong Kong remained weak. And in Taiwan, we still see geopolitical risks, and therefore, we are still remaining cautious. Segment assets increased by JPY38.7 billion from the end of previous period to JPY1.7479 trillion, of which FX accounted for JPY27.4 billion. In Asia, South Korea and Australia, we increased these assets.

中國大陸和香港依然表現疲軟。在台灣，我們仍然看到地緣政治風險，因此我們仍然保持謹慎。分部資產較上期末增加387億日圓至17,479億日元，其中外匯佔274億日圓。在亞洲、韓國和澳大利亞，我們增加了這些資產。

Finally, please turn to page 10. This slide summarizes our view on the current operating climate and direction. As shown on the left, at the announcement of our first half results in November, before the new US administration came in, our CEO, Mr. Inoue, commented that in Japan he expected a scenario where there was a gradual rising in interest rates and weakening of the yen, regarding the situation overseas, he commented that the result of the presidential election may accelerate geopolitical instability due to extreme foreign policies and there is also possibility of resurgence of inflation, interest rates staying at high levels and weakening of the yen. Our views currently remain unchanged from those statements.

最後，請翻到第10頁。這張投影片總結了我們對目前營運環境和方向的看法。如左圖所示，在11月新美國政府上台前公佈上半年業績時，本公司社長井上先生表示，預計日本國內利率將逐步上升，日元將走弱；至於海外，他表示，美國總統大選結果可能因極端的對外政策而加速地緣政治的不穩定，通貨膨脹也有可能再度抬頭，利率將維持在高位，日元將走弱。我們目前的觀點與這些聲明一致。

Impact of transformation measures to our businesses remain uncertain, but we do have certain scenarios that can be used to make judgment in each of the businesses. For Japan, the policy rate is now at a new level for the first time in 17 years. There is a gradual increase in the interest rate and the prices are rising, costs are rising and there is a concern about the excessive weak yen. So we will remain cautious as well for investment judgment. In Asia, we also have some uncertainties with regard to the economic outlook.

轉型措施對我們業務的影響仍不確定，但我們確實有一些可用於對每項業務進行判斷的情境。對日本來說，政策利率17年來首次達到新水準。利率逐漸上升，物價上漲，成本上升，人們擔心日圓過度疲軟。因此，我們對投資判斷也會保持謹慎。在亞洲，我們對經濟前景也存在一些不確定性。

Now as for operations, we aim to continue to enjoy the benefits of being an asset owner and promote the shift to asset manager model. And we expect the inbound business to continue to increase. We will accelerate some efforts and the global asset management business will be promoted.

在營運方面，我們的目標是繼續享受資產所有者的利益，並推動向資產管理者模式的轉變。我們預計入境業務將繼續成長。我們會加快一些力度，推動全球資產管理業務的發展。

For renewable energy, interest rate, ForEx inflation, construction cost, energy prices, there are certain uncertainties that we need to take look out for. But for clean energy, the general demand over the mid-to long term will remain strong. This is our view. And therefore, we will be selective, but also be promoting existing projects in order to leverage the strength as an asset owner.

對於再生能源、利率、外匯通膨、建築成本、能源價格，我們需要注意某些不確定因素。但對於清潔能源來說，中長期的整體需求仍將保持強勁。這是我們的觀點。因此，我們會有所選擇，同時也會推廣現有項目，以發揮作為資產所有者的優勢。

And as for finance, for each of the area, there are different trends. We will look out for these differences and continue to build assets and invest based on the risk, return profile.

至於金融，每個領域都有不同的趨勢。我們將留意這些差異，並繼續根據風險和回報狀況建立資產和進行投資。

Last but not least, for investments, up until the third quarter, domestic private equity, real estate and overseas energy in multiple segments, we will be posting a gain on sales so that we will continue to do capital -- effective capital recycling. And ROA, ROE should be pushed up because of these efforts.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，對於投資，截至第三季度，國內私募股權、房地產和海外能源等多個領域，我們將實現銷售收益，以便我們繼續進行資本——有效的資本回收。而ROA、ROE也應該會因為這些努力而被推高。

Finance investments. Japan, US, Europe and emerging markets, we will be looking at these factors in a matrix manner. We know that there are a lot of uncertainties, but we will take advantage of the diverse portfolio to take the best option at any given time. And from '25 and onwards, we will continue to leverage our diversified business portfolio and identify the right risks and promote new investments and promote exits as well, even despite the uncertainty originating in the United States.

金融投資。日本、美國、歐洲和新興市場，我們將以矩陣的方式考慮這些因素。我們知道存在許多不確定性，但我們將利用多元化投資組合在任何時候做出最佳選擇。從 25 年起，儘管美國存在不確定性，我們仍將繼續利用我們多元化的業務組合，識別正確的風險，促進新的投資並促進退出。

Now on January 1, our new COO, Take Takahashi, took office and delivered a new message, which was basically three key points. First of all, ORIX will provide essential solutions to major issues facing society as a part of achieving our group purpose. And secondly, we will maximize the business opportunities between multiple and diversified segments. And thirdly, Mr. Takahashi will endeavor to create an environment at ORIX where everyone can work with excitement and purpose and fulfill their own individual goals.

現在1月1日，我們的新任COO高橋武上任並發表了新的講話，基本上就是三個重點。首先，歐力士將為社會面臨的重大問題提供必要的解決方案，作為實現集團目標的一部分。其次，我們將最大限度地挖掘多元化、多樣化細分市場之間的業務機會。第三，高橋先生將努力在歐力士創造一個讓每個人都能充滿熱情、有目的地工作並實現自己個人目標的環境。

We are striving to achieve record profits this fiscal year. And I believe that further growth over the midterm to long term is possible if all ORIX employees work to realize this message.

我們力爭本財年實現創紀錄的利潤。我相信，如果歐力士全體員工都致力於實現這一理念，那麼從中期到長期來看，歐力士就有可能實現進一步的成長。

Capital recycling and asset management. This is something that ORIX will be promoting globally to strengthen balance sheet as well as capital and use them effectively so that we can generate effective profitability generating structure. This is Mr. Inoue's message as well.

資金循環和資產管理。歐力士將在全球推廣這項舉措，以加強資產負債表和資本並有效利用它們，從而形成有效的獲利結構。這也是井上先生的訊息。

We have slightly less than two months left in this fiscal year, and we are considering achieving our net income target of JPY390 billion while discussing how to realize the growth from next year and beyond.

本財年僅剩不到兩個月的時間，我們正在考慮實現3,900億日圓的淨收入目標，同時討論如何實現明年及以後的成長。

That is all from me. Thank you very much for your kind attention.

我要說的就這些。非常感謝您的關注。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

JPMorgan, Sato-san.

摩根大通，佐藤先生。

Thank you for providing me with an opportunity. I am Sato from JPMorgan. I have one question. So in various different area or on different occasions, I know you have been sharing your view about the US economy, especially ORIX USA. The subsegment of ORIX USA, do you have any kind of vision or the expectation for the future? And how long would it take before you think that you can normalize the business so that you can turn profitable again?

謝謝你給我這個機會。我是摩根大通的佐藤。我有一個問題。所以在不同的領域或不同的場合，我知道您一直在分享您對美國經濟的看法，尤其是歐力士美國公司 (ORIX USA)。歐力士美國這個細分領域，您對未來有什麼願景或期待嗎？您認為需要多長時間才能使業務正常化並再次盈利？

And in addition to that, on page 27, as you always share, so for the third quarter, the stand-alone third quarter, credit profit seems to be weak. So if you could be so kind enough to share with us the reason why for that as well, that would be helpful. Thank you.

除此之外，正如您一直提到的，在第 27 頁，對於第三季度，獨立的第三季度，信貸利潤似乎較弱。因此，如果您能與我們分享這樣做的原因，那將會很有幫助。謝謝。

Thank you for your support all this, and I'd like to then explain by making use of page 27 of our slide deck. As we have said, with regard to the credit-related businesses, as we have announced, as for our business line, so loan fund generation, NXT capital, CLO generation origination, signal peak capital. So as to the product, leveraged loans, structured finance, those are the businesses of those business lines for the credit businesses.

謝謝大家對這一切的支持，我想利用我們投影片的第 27 頁來解釋。正如我們所說，關於信貸相關業務，正如我們已經宣布的那樣，就我們的業務線而言，包括貸款基金生成、NXT 資本、CLO 生成發起、信號峰值資本。至於產品，槓桿貸款，結構化融資，這些都是信貸業務的業務線。

So CRE- related businesses, so they are only -- we do make a pure investment only for those that are investable. So as compared to the prior year, so there is nothing that is to be noted because it doesn't differ from the last year. But as to the origination, signal peak, the new CLO, although it was back in January of this year, we did manage to issue a new CLO. So the business impact is improving.

因此，與 CRE 相關的業務，所以它們只是——我們只對那些可投資的業務進行純粹投資。因此，與前一年相比，沒有什麼值得注意的，因為它與去年沒有什麼不同。但至於起源、訊號峰值、新的 CLO，儘管那是在今年 1 月，但我們確實設法發布了新的 CLO。因此業務影響正在改善。

As to -- not just basing on our own balance sheet, we are trying our best to equip ourselves with the capabilities of our sales and marketing so that we'll be able to get the mandate for those funds so that we have been proceeding with the enhancement of the quality or sophistication of these businesses. So we do not, in an outright manner, just simply expand the size of the business. So this has been the result of those efforts.

至於——不僅僅基於我們自己的資產負債表，我們正在盡最大努力提高我們的銷售和行銷能力，以便我們能夠獲得這些資金的授權，從而不斷提高這些業務的品質或複雜程度。因此，我們不會直接簡單地擴大業務規模。這就是這些努力的成果。

And as to the real estate in the middle, as I have mentioned earlier, as to the origination environment, each of the agencies, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, for example, so because interest rate remains to be high for longer and so therefore we are recovering from that environment, especially with regard to the origination.

至於中間的房地產，正如我之前提到的，至於發起環境，每個機構，例如房地美、房利美，因為利率將在較長時間內保持在高位，因此我們正在從這種環境中恢復，特別是在發起方面。

But anything that meets our criteria and especially from the perspective of the spread of origination fee, we would -- towards the end of the year in the trend of acquiring businesses that are more profitable -- in the second quarter, in the third quarter, the slow start, in fact, is being -- kind of bringing about the negative impact. But some of -- so we are now revisiting some of the asset management. And there may be some cases of provisioning that is proving to be necessary, but we are working on the improvement of the assets on hand.

但任何符合我們標準的東西，特別是從發起費傳播的角度來看，在年底收購利潤更高的企業的趨勢中，第二季、第三季的緩慢開局實際上正在帶來負面影響。但其中一些—所以我們現在正在重新審視一些資產管理。在某些情況下，可能確實需要進行撥備，但我們正在努力改善手邊的資產。

So it may take a little while, but we are beginning to -- we think that we'll be able to see the signs of recovery from the next year onwards. So we would not miss out on those opportunities. And for that purpose, so constructions and other business opportunities, while, of course, containing the risk, we'd like to expand the scope of our business opportunities.

所以這可能需要一段時間，但我們已經開始——我們認為從明年開始我們將能夠看到復甦的跡象。所以我們不會錯過這些機會。為了這個目的，我們在建築和其他商業機會的同時，當然要控制風險，我們希望擴大我們的商業機會範圍。

So in terms of the business direction, I think it is on the road or the track of improvement. Especially the middle market private equity on a continued basis, CPI as well as employment costs and other cost increase, that remains to be uncertain.

所以從業務方向來說，我認為它正在改善的道路或軌道上。特別是中端市場的私募股權投資是否能持續成長，CPI以及就業成本等成本是否會上升，仍有待確定性。

So the top line as well as the profitability wise, it is beginning to show some signs of improvement. But we need to absorb all this cost increase and before we can enjoy higher activities, I think we would have to wait for some time, which means that we would have to continue to maintain what we do right now and we would have to just watch about the development of the policies of the new administration and wait for the M&A market to improve and so that we'll be able to come up with the next round of strategy.

因此，從營業收入和獲利能力來看，它開始顯示出一些改善的跡象。但我們需要吸收所有這些成本的增加，在我們能夠享受更高的活動之前，我認為我們必須等待一段時間，這意味著我們必須繼續維持我們現在所做的事情，我們必須關注新政府的政策發展，等待併購市場改善，這樣我們才能製定下一輪戰略。

Sorry, that it was a slightly extended kind of response to your question, but I hope this answers your question.

抱歉，我的回答有點冗長，但我希望這能回答您的問題。

Now with regard to the credit, the segment profit that you have mentioned, so the base profit and capital gain, you have not broken down the two from this time. So for this third quarter stand-alone basis, [$337 million], I think, profit -- million dollars I think. So while you were disclosing the base profit, this is a capital gain. It looks as if the level, the size seems to be smaller. So CCS buildup was nonexistent, may I take it?

現在關於信貸，您提到的分部利潤，即基本利潤和資本收益，從目前來看，您還沒有將兩者分開。因此，就第三季的獨立基礎而言，我認為利潤為 [3.37 億美元] — — 百萬美元。因此，當您披露基本利潤時，這是一項資本收益。看起來好像是那個層次，尺寸好像比較小。所以 CCS 累積不存在，我可以接受嗎？

So it was not a kind of a specific individual kind of provisioning, but the flow of deals, for example, the environment itself has started to show some signs of an improvement. But on a P&L, there was a slowdown for sure. However, originations and also the flow of the deal, there has not been any major concern as such. So the portfolio -- as to the portfolio quality, the monitoring impact remains to be intact.

因此，這不是一種特定的單獨的配置，而是交易的流程，例如環境本身已經開始顯示出一些改善的跡象。但從損益表來看，肯定有放緩。然而，就交易的起源和流程而言，並不存在任何重大擔憂。因此，就投資組合品質而言，監控影響仍然完好無損。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

SMBC Nikko Securities, Muraki-san.

三井住友日興證券，Muraki 先生。

Yes. This is Muraki, SMBC Securities. Hello. My question is about midterm plan, ROE target and the growth rate target. What is the current discussion? Can you please update us on that?

是的。我是三井住友證券的 Muraki。你好。我的問題是關於中期計劃、ROE目標和成長率目標。目前正在討論什麼？您能否向我們通報一下這一情況？

And the financial institutions both in Japan and outside of Japan, they often have EPS growth targets. And one of the growth drivers behind that is very often share buyback. They position share buyback very clearly in that way. So more aggressive or positive stance on share buyback -- or positioning share buyback as some things that is even more important than before. Do you have any ideas of doing this within ORIX? Thank you.

日本國內和國外的金融機構通常都有每股盈餘成長目標。而這背後的成長動力之一往往是股票回購。他們對股票回購的定位非常明確。因此，對股票回購採取更積極或更積極的立場——或者將股票回購定位為比以前更重要的事情。您有在 ORIX 內部實現這一目標的想法嗎？謝謝。

At the Board meeting today for the Q3 earnings, next midterm plan and business plan was actively discussed. Update is looking at the progress of the discussion of the midterm plan so far. Since we made announcement in May 2022, well, that was actually immediately after COVID-19 pandemic, there were a lot of uncertainties. But we had the Russia-Ukraine issue and also inflation, high interest rate, all of these different factors happened together more than we had expected.

今天的董事會會議積極討論了第三季收益、下一個中期計劃和業務計劃。更新正在查看迄今為止中期計劃討論的進展。由於我們在 2022 年 5 月宣布了這一消息，實際上當時正值新冠疫情爆發之後，因此存在許多不確定性。但是我們有俄羅斯-烏克蘭問題，還有通貨膨脹、高利率，所有這些不同因素同時發生的情況超出了我們的預期。

Now going forward, technological advancements and market changes will have to be looked at over the longer term. And then we have to back cast and figure out organic and inorganic growth strategies. So these are the things that we're discussing.

展望未來，我們必須從長遠角度看待技術進步和市場變化。然後我們必須回顧並找出有機和無機成長策略。這些就是我們正在討論的事情。

In terms of numerical targets discussion, I believe that this will require some more time before we get there. And under the new COO, we would like to continue our internal discussion. We also have a capital policy.

至於數字目標的討論，我認為這還需要一些時間才能實現。在新首席營運長的領導下，我們希望繼續進行內部討論。我們還有資本政策。

Now share buyback, as you may know, other companies following the TSE guidance and they are now aware of that, but ORIX has embarked on this much earlier than them. And as you may know -- as you can see on page 37 on the right-hand side, this is a track record of our share buyback so far. About JPY50 billion share buyback has been done over the last six terms or so -- six periods.

現在股票回購，正如你們可能知道的，其他公司也在遵循東京證券交易所的指導，他們現在已經意識到了這一點，但歐力士比他們更早開始了這項工作。你們可能知道——正如你們在第 37 頁右側看到的，這是我們迄今為止的股票回購記錄。在過去六個時期內，已經進行了約 500 億日圓的股票回購。

So in terms of the EPS growth, you can see the information on page 38, the next page. As you can see, we have been keenly aware of this from very early on. So this is one of the things that we are discussing currently is ROE. So higher end of the 9%, unfortunately, we are still not double digit. And the 11% is the target that we've been communicating to the market for a while and we still have some way to go.

因此，就 EPS 成長而言，您可以在下一頁第 38 頁看到資訊。正如您所看到的，我們很早就已經敏銳地意識到了這一點。這是我們目前正在討論的事情之一，即 ROE。不幸的是，雖然超過了 9%，但我們仍然沒有達到兩位數。11% 是我們一段時間以來一直向市場傳達的目標，但我們還有一段路要走。

Interest rates going up and financing cost is changing. And A rating, cheap debt strength should be leveraged for the future growth as well. So we have to discuss the patterns. 11% target achievement or going beyond that, well, we want to show the path to achieve that in our midterm plan as well as the business plan going forward. We believe that this is an important thing for us to show in our plan.

利率上升，融資成本改變。而 A 級評級、廉價的債務實力也應該會為未來的成長提供助力。所以我們必須討論模式。 11％的目標實現或超越這個目標，我們希望在我們的中期計劃以及未來的商業計劃中展示實現這一目標的途徑。我們相信這是我們計畫中要展現的一件重要的事。

So this is already within our sight. I hope you understand. Last but not least, I think you have asked a question about the profitability growth as well. Leveraging the assets and segments, this is the conventional way. We are also turning a focus on asset management and more diversified financing approaches. So we want to achieve this on as many fronts as possible in order to sustain the growth of profitability.

這已經在我們的視線之內了。我希望你能理解。最後但同樣重要的一點是，我想您也問了一個關於獲利成長的問題。利用資產和環節，這是常規的做法。我們也將重點轉向資產管理和更多樣化的融資方式。因此，我們希望盡可能實現這一目標，以維持盈利能力的成長。

Profitability growth could slow down because of the changes at least for the short term, so we need to look at the transformation and also the ultimate corporate value enhancement. And the balance between the two, we will have to discuss for each of the businesses, and that's exactly what we're doing.

獲利能力成長可能會因為這些變化而至少在短期內放緩，所以我們需要考慮轉型以及最終的企業價值提升。我們必須針對每個業務討論兩者之間的平衡，而這正是我們正在做的事情。

So each of these steps actually take time. So as soon as we have something that we can share with you, we would like to share that information with you. I hope this answers your question.

因此，每個步驟實際上都需要時間。因此，一旦我們有可以與您分享的訊息，我們願意與您分享這些資訊。我希望這回答了你的問題。

Understood. Thank you very much.

明白了。非常感謝。

Sakamaki-san, Mizuho Securities.

瑞穗證券的坂卷先生。

I am Sakamaki from Mizuho Securities. I have a question. So this is going to be slightly shortsighted, but with regard to the achievement of your plan for this year, Greenko divestment will be towards the end of the month. If this would not be executed by the deadline, do we have to think about the second plan? Would you remain to be flexible in order to achieve the plan for the year? And what would happen to the dividend payout should this be not being reflected to the earnings of the full year?

我是瑞穗證券的逆卷。我有一個問題。因此，這可能有點短視，但就今年計劃的實現而言，Greenko 的撤資將在月底進行。如果這個計劃不能在截止日期前執行，我們是否需要考慮第二個計劃？為了實現今年的計劃，您是否會繼續保持靈活性？如果股息支付沒有反映在全年收益中，會發生什麼情況？

First of all, with regard to Greenko, it goes without saying it is dependent on the buyer of the shares, but we think that there's a high probability of the sales being executed within the end of the -- by the end of the year. So this, we would give priority to this action and we think that there is a high likelihood. But of course, if this cannot be executed by the end of the year, so JPY96 billion and also pretax profit, there will be a certain impact should this not be achieved.

首先，就 Greenko 而言，不言而喻，這取決於股票的買家，但我們認為，在年底前完成銷售的可能性很高。因此，我們將優先考慮這項行動，而且我們認為可能性很高。但當然，如果這個目標到年底還不能實現，那麼960億日圓以及稅前利潤，如果不能實現，就會產生一定的影響。

So would we be able to fill the gap? Is there any kind of plan B? Of course, it is very much dependent on the counter-party. And also the -- it is based on the assumption of the best practice execution. So therefore, it is, of course, dependent on how things will trend dependent on Greenko sales.

那我們能夠填補這個空白嗎？有沒有什麼 B 計畫？當然，這很大程度上取決於交易對手。而且——它是基於最佳實踐執行的假設。因此，這當然取決於 Greenko 銷售情況的趨勢。

So we have no plan B or plan C by filling the gap, in other words. So JPY390 billion of our profit achievement unfortunately cannot be achieved if this is not to be executed. However, having said that, so it was for every year there is a base profit and other profits that we generate. And it looks as if there is going to be an overshoot as compared to the initial plan for other profit expectations.

換句話說，我們沒有透過填補空白來製定 B 計畫或 C 計畫。因此，如果不執行這項計劃，我們很遺憾無法實現 3,900 億日圓的利潤目標。然而，話雖如此，我們每年都會產生基本利潤和其他利潤。而且看起來其他利潤預期似乎會超出最初的計劃。

I know I'm being a little optimistic, but even if there was to be the full execution of this Greenko sales, we would be able to fill some gap, but we will not be able to fill the entire gap by end of March. Of course, it is dependent on the reasons why we were not able to execute the Greenko sales and I think we would have to just continue to discuss over this topic with the executive officers and also the Board members.

我知道我有點樂觀，但即使全面執行 Greenko 銷售，我們也能填補一些空白，但我們無法在 3 月底之前填補全部空白。當然，這取決於我們無法執行 Greenko 銷售的原因，我認為我們必須繼續與執行長和董事會成員討論這個問題。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Daiwa Securities, Watanabe-san.

大和證券，渡邊先生。

Yes. This is Watanabe, Daiwa Securities. Page 10, on the right-hand side, this is the current status. Domestic Financial Services and inbound business, asset management seems to be the focus. Based on the macro environment, Finance business in Japan do you have a different view now on its profitability? And the base profit is in the attachment and have you made any changes to the way you think about the quality of the base profit?

是的。我是大和證券公司的渡邊。第 10 頁，右側是目前狀態。國內金融服務和入境業務、資產管理似乎成為重點。基於宏觀環境，您現在對日本金融業務的獲利能力有何不同看法？基本利潤在附件中，您對基本利潤品質的看法有什麼改變嗎？

Thank you for your question. I will start with the right-hand side of page 10, Finance business in Japan. Our view has not changed very much. But the interest rate is definitely climbing and the yield for asset management for life insurance and others are now working positively for us. So this will underpin stable profit for us.

感謝您的提問。我將從第 10 頁的右側開始，即日本的金融業務。我們的觀點沒有太大改變。但利率肯定在上升，人壽保險和其他資產管理的收益率現在對我們有利。因此這將為我們奠定穩定的利潤基礎。

Inbound and domestic demand, and looking at the economy, I believe even at the global level, it is maybe on par. But the construction cost for new projects -- new development projects, well, usually, it takes three to five years or sometimes longer for development and MICE-IR large projects are in our portfolio. And therefore, we have to manage the total risk and need to have foresight.

縱觀入境和國內需求以及經濟狀況，我相信即使在全球層面，它也可能處於同一水平。但是新項目的建造成本——新開發項目，通常需要三到五年甚至更長時間才能開發完成，而 MICE-IR 大型項目都在我們的投資組合中。因此，我們必須管理整體風險，並要有遠見。

Now focus on asset management. Sometimes this can be misleading, but we want to leverage third party asset or capital to grow our business and we can provide our business expertise to scale the business. So focus on asset management, this is one of the ways of diversifying our financing and the finance and investment hybrid model will be promoted. And this is where we can expand profitability and grow as a corporation or corporate value.

現在專注於資產管理。有時這可能會產生誤導，但我們希望利用第三方資產或資本來發展我們的業務，並且我們可以提供我們的業務專業知識來擴大業務規模。所以專注於資產管理，這是我們融資多元化的方式之一，並將推廣投融資混合模式。這正是我們可以擴大獲利能力並實現公司或企業價值成長的地方。

Is it going to be base profit or gain on sales or fee income?

這是基本利潤還是銷售利潤或費用收入？

It will be more and more diversified going forward. I didn't skip this page because I neglected it, we just said I didn't have enough time. But the base profit growth is something that the Board is very much interesting and we received a lot of instructions and comments from the Board about this. So we will continue to focus on that and combine it with capital recycling. That is the policy that remains unchanged. So please feel reassured. Thank you.

未來它將越來越多樣化。我跳過這一頁並不是因為我忽略了它，只是說我沒有足夠的時間。但董事會非常關注基礎利潤成長，我們也收到了許多董事會對這方面的指示和意見。因此我們將繼續關注這一點，並將其與資本循環結合。這是保持不變的政策。所以請您放心。謝謝。

Tsujino-san, Bank of America Securities.

Tsujino-san，美國銀行證券。

So this is going to be a short question. However, with regard to the sales of Greenko, so it is a business in India, but they do have entities in Europe as well. So I don't know how you have been responding to our questions in the past. But however, as for this year as well as last year, we thought -- I recall you sharing with us that there was a possibility of some sales that was to be executed, but it did not happen. But then this year, you had announced the sales of Greenko.

這是一個簡短的問題。然而，就 Greenko 的銷售而言，它是印度的企業，但他們在歐洲也有實體。所以我不知道您過去是如何回答我們的問題的。但是，就今年和去年而言，我們認為——我記得您曾與我們分享過，有可能進行一些銷售，但並沒有發生。但今年你們已經宣布了 Greenko 的銷售。

So what was in your mind when you shared this idea of selling some of your businesses in the past? Was it Greenko or the power generation, for example, the facilities that you own under Elawan in Europe? Was it in your mind? So as we look back, so you were perhaps assuming maybe for about 1.5 years selling something from Elawan, some of the assets. Why was it not executed, if that was in your mind.

那麼，當您過去提出出售一些企業的想法時，您心裡是怎麼想的呢？是 Greenko 還是發電，例如您在歐洲的 Elawan 旗下擁有的設施？這是在你的腦海裡嗎？所以當我們回顧時，你可能會假設大約有 1.5 年的時間出售 Elawan 的一些資產。如果您這麼想的話，為什麼它沒有被執行？

But in addition to that, if you could, so this time, in the investment business, Toshiba's contribution from the perspective of the profit Q-on-Q basis, I thought that you were able to generate about JPY4 billion worth of profit from Toshiba in the -- not the concession, but the investment. But the reason why you were not able to generate that much, is there any reason why?

但除此之外，如果可以的話，那麼這一次，在投資業務中，從環比利潤的角度來看，東芝的貢獻，我認為你能夠從東芝中獲得價值約 40 億日元的利潤——不是特許權，而是投資。但為什麼你們沒能產出那麼多，有什麼原因嗎？

So first of all, with regard to Greenko and the positioning within the investment business, as has been said by Tsujino-san, so it is located in emerging country and also minority position and the development is, in fact, sizable. And other than ORIX, there are other shareholders, sovereign wealth fund, mostly, they are -- so therefore, we were, in fact, thinking about this -- or positioning this business to be target for capital recycling in the future.

首先，關於 Greenko 及其在投資業務中的定位，正如 Tsujino 先生所說，它位於新興國家，也屬於少數族裔，而且發展規模實際上相當可觀。除了歐力士，還有其他股東，主要是主權財富基金，因此，我們實際上正在考慮這一點，或將這項業務定位為未來資本循環的目標。

So after '21, we have been making an investment at the renewable energy facility. The development progress, dependent on the progress that we were making, we were always putting this on the table for consideration as to when are we to sell the project. So whereas Elawan, in fact, is exposed to industrialized nations or advanced nations. So we wanted to, of course, enhance the capability as a developer. And as to the ones that are completed, so it will be perceived as development model.

因此，21世紀後，我們一直在對再生能源設施進行投資。開發進度取決於我們所取得的進展，我們始終將這一點擺到桌面上以供考慮何時出售該項目。因此，Elawan 實際上面向的是工業化國家或已開發國家。因此，我們當然希望增強開發人員的能力。而對於已經完成的，則會被視為發展模式。

In other words, long-term PPA was to be acquired, so that we'll be able to generate a long-term kind of liquidity flow. So on the other hand, as to the energy prices in Europe, with Ukraine -- in nation of Ukraine and also, at the same time, the pricing trend, in fact, has been fluctuating and also the subsidy that has been provided by different, of course, government has been affecting the spot prices.

換句話說，我們要獲得長期的 PPA，這​​樣我們才能產生一種長期的流動性。另一方面，就歐洲、烏克蘭和烏克蘭的能源價格而言，與此同時，定價趨勢實際上一直在波動，而且不同政府提供的補貼也一直在影響現貨價格。

So therefore, the development project at Elawan, some of the major capital gains that we were expecting, unfortunately, was not to be gained. But the basic policy remains to be unchanged. And one other thing, you asked the question with regard to Toshiba. We are not disclosing the profit that we generate from this Toshiba deal. And also the other day, KIOXIA, which was listed just the other day, went public, so there is going to be some time lag before we can pick up the income on the equity that we invested.

因此，不幸的是，我們預期的 Elawan 開發案的一些主要資本利得並沒有實現。但基本政策並沒有改變。還有一件事，您問的是有關東芝的問題。我們不會透露從這筆東芝交易中獲得的利潤。而且前幾天，剛上市的KIOXIA也上市了，所以我們需要一段時間才能收回所投資的股權收益。

But as to the direction, as you had shared, is what we expect as well, whereas with the business partner heading the initiative, as for the EPA, Toshiba's portfolio, in fact, has been changing over time as well. So from an accounting perspective, we need to adjust ourselves as well. So what you may have simulated may not match against the reality for that reason. So maybe the after kind of process, related to us being LP -- the LP holding of ours, but the business environment itself is trending for the better, for sure. So this may not be matching with your numbers.

但就方向而言，正如您所分享的，這也是我們所期望的，而隨著業務合作夥伴領導該倡議，至於 EPA，東芝的投資組合實際上也在隨著時間的推移而改變。所以從會計角度來說，我們也需要進行調整。因此，您所模擬的可能與現實不符。因此，也許之後的過程與我們作為 LP 有關——我們的 LP 控股，但商業環境本身肯定會朝著好的方向發展。所以這可能與您的數字不符。

So this is why the LP kind of gain, so rather than -- I think there should be some technical ups and downs. I was imagining that is affecting your earnings, right?

所以這就是 LP 獲得收益的原因，所以我認為應該會有一些技術上的起伏。我在想這會影響你的收入，對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

I see. Thank you very much.

我懂了。非常感謝。

But having said that though, if you were to look into the details of the investment, as you have said, there is an accounting treatment. And that, of course, incorporates the financial structure and also the engineering of the fund itself. So this is why there are some technical challenges that we are facing. But as to the business itself, we -- the business structure-wise, it is following a trajectory towards improvement for sure.

不過話雖如此，仔細研究投資的細節，你會發現正如你所說，存在會計處理。當然，這包括財務結構和基金本身的工程設計。這就是我們面臨一些技術挑戰的原因。但就業務本身而言，從業務結構來看，它肯定會沿著改善的軌跡發展。

Okay, thank you very much for that. Thank you.

好的，非常感謝。謝謝。

Nomura Securities, Sasaki-san.

野村證券，佐佐木先生。

Yes. This is Sasaki, Nomura Securities. Thank you. My question is about the new midterm plan. You have already explained to some extent. But I'm sorry, I couldn't quite understand, so let me clarify some points with you. In reviewing the current midterm plan, you identified more new risks, so you want to apply a more conservative approach. Is that what you said? Was that your message?

是的。我是野村證券的佐佐木。謝謝。我的問題是關於新的中期計劃。你已經解釋得有些多了。但很抱歉，我不太理解，所以讓我向你澄清一些觀點。在審查目前的中期計劃時，您發現了更多新的風險，因此您希望採用更保守的方法。你是這麼說的嗎？這是你的資訊嗎？

And also with regard to financial KPIs, you have not really discussed those yet. That's what you said. But we are already in the middle of February, and considering when ORIX usually formulates a business plan, maybe it is getting late. So does that mean that you're struggling with the discussion?

關於財務 KPI，您還沒有真正討論過這些問題。這就是你所說的。但現在已經是二月中旬了，以歐力士通常會制定商業計畫的時間來看，可能已經太晚了。那麼這是否意味著您在討論中遇到了困難？

And last but not least, 11% or more ROE, I think you said that this is within sight. That was my interpretation of your comment earlier. Now how can you say that 11% or higher ROE is already in sight? What is the justification, rationale behind that according to the management's perspective. Can you please elaborate? Thank you.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，11％或更高的 ROE，我想您說過這是可以實現的。這就是我對您之前評論的解讀。現在你怎麼能說 11% 或更高的 ROE 已經近在眼前了呢？從管理階層的角度來看，這背後的理由和理由是什麼？能詳細說明一下嗎？謝謝。

I have to apologize. I maybe misunderstand that we're talking about a conservative point of view. So we looked at the previous plan, inflation, wages, also interest rates based on these different circumstances. In January '22, we formed the plan and made some announcements in May and then things changed after that. If we try to project what happens down the line, three years, it doesn't really work, that's what we realized. So what am I going to do?

我必須道歉。我可能誤解了我們在談論保守的觀點。因此，我們根據不同的情況審視了先前的計畫、通貨膨脹、薪資以及利率。22年1月，我們制定了計劃，並在5月發布了一些公告，此後情況發生了變化。如果我們試圖預測三年後會發生什麼，那實際上行不通，這就是我們所意識到的。那我該怎麼辦？

Well, rather than basing our scenario on these indices, the time frame differs from one business to another, but 5 years, 7 years or 10 years down the line, for MICE, we have something opening in 2030 and we have a stable operation from that point onward.

好吧，我們的情景並不是基於這些指數，時間框架因業務而異，但 5 年後、7 年後或 10 年後，對於 MICE 來說，我們會在 2030 年開設一些項目，從那時起我們就會進行穩定的運營。

So within these different time frames, where do we want to be? This is what we are discussing and we're trying to back cast from that and then figure out what to do in the next coming three years in terms of internal control and the budget management.

那麼在這些不同的時間範圍內，我們想要達到什麼目標呢？這就是我們正在討論的，我們正試圖從中回顧並找出未來三年在內部控制和預算管理方面要做的事情。

So these are the two phases -- two-phased approach, time frame for each business and where we want to be in the future. And with regard to this aspect, we are trying to aggressively grow the businesses. So this mindset has not really changed. And based on that, we try to back cast.

所以這是兩個階段——兩個階段的方法、每個業務的時間框架以及我們未來的目標。在這方面，我們正在積極發展業務。所以這種心態其實並沒有改變。在此基礎上，我們嘗試進行回溯。

And this way of plan is different from the cadence of every three years for each midterm plan, excluding for the pandemic period. So the cadence will be different -- or the approach will be different. So we don't just extend on the current situation in terms of midterm plan.

而這種規劃方式與每三年推出一次中期計畫的節奏不同，疫情期間除外。因此節奏會有所不同——或者方法會有所不同。因此，我們的中期計劃並不只是延伸當前的狀況。

Over the mid-to long term, one of the important focuses is to increase the ROE. Capital efficiency, we don't want to worsen the capital efficiency. So capital recycling and asset management business model should be leveraged or they will become essential. And without that, we will not be able to achieve the ROE of 11% or higher, or at the very least, it's not going to be easy. So this is something that we're discussing for different businesses.

中長期看，一個重要關注點是提高ROE。資本效率，我們不想讓資本效率惡化。因此，應該利用資本循環和資產管理業務模式，否則它們將變得至關重要。如果沒有這一點，我們就不可能實現11%以上的ROE，至少不會很容易。這是我們正在針對不同企業討論的事情。

So we're not trying to aim for something just for the short term. But in order to achieve the long-term goal, we are going to change. So we have a sense of urgency and we are focusing on these big challenges, including outside independent directors, we are discussing this time and again at the BOD, so that we can figure out when is the best time for us to communicate this with you going forward. So this is how we are sharing this information with you. I know that I'm not giving a very clear answer, I'm sorry, but the discussion is still underway. I hope you understand.

因此，我們不會只追求短期目標。但為了實現長遠目標，我們將做出改變。因此，我們有一種緊迫感，我們正在集中精力應對這些重大挑戰，包括外部獨立董事，我們在董事會上一次又一次地討論這個問題，以便我們能夠確定什麼時候是我們今後與你們溝通的最佳時機。這就是我們與您分享這些資訊的方式。我知道我沒有給出非常明確的答案，很抱歉，但討論仍在進行中。我希望你能理解。

So you need to do the capital recycling and you have to focus on asset management type business, otherwise, you cannot achieve 11% or higher. So this is the same discussion as before, I understand.

所以你需要做資本循環，你必須專注於資產管理型業務，否則你不可能達到11%或更高的水準。所以我知道這是與之前的討論相同的。

My question is when it comes to specific measures, do you have now deeper discussions taking place because looking at what's happening around the world, there is maybe major reorganization or restructuring going on. So I don't think you can spend a lot of time just discussing. So do you already have specific plans being discussed at the BOD level?

我的問題是，談到具體措施，你們現在是否進行了更深入的討論，因為看看世界各地正在發生的事情，可能正在進行重大的重組或重構。因此我認為你不能花很多時間只是討論。那麼，董事會層級是否已經討論過具體計畫了？

As you have rightly mentioned, whether we are accelerating or not, buy low, sell high, capital recycling, capital gain realization, maybe that's not the only aspect. Within the existing investees, maybe the growth rate of return is not as high as it could be. So we should apply a more stringent view and going one step further in terms of discussing the capital recycling. Because without doing that, ROE resilience could weaken slowly over time.

正如您正確提到的，無論我們是否加速，低買、高賣、資本循環、資本利得實現，也許這並不是唯一的面向。在現有的投資對像中，可能報酬率的成長率還沒有達到應有的那麼高。所以我們在討論資本循環問題時，應該採取更嚴格的觀點，更進一步。因為如果不這樣做，ROE 彈性可能會隨著時間的推移而逐漸減弱。

So in order to avoid that situation, with regard to existing investees or existing projects, we need to shed more stringent light and this is something that we're discussing at a very detailed -- broken down level. Without that discussion, we would find it difficult to improve ROE going forward. So it's not only for the new projects, but also existing items in the portfolio and the existing business lines, we are reviewing them at a greater granularity.

因此，為了避免這種情況，對於現有的投資對像或現有的項目，我們需要進行更嚴格的規定，我們正在對此進行非常詳細的討論。如果沒有這樣的討論，我們將很難在未來提高 ROE。因此，我們不僅會以更細緻的程度審查新項目，還會審查投資組合中的現有項目和現有業務線。

Thank you. When to communicate with the market, is that when you close the financial year? Or is it going to be before that? That's my last question.

謝謝。什麼時候與市場溝通，是在結束財政年度的時候嗎？或者會在那之前？這是我的最後一個問題。

So the closing, of course, discussion will deepen and COO, Takahashi-san, assumed position in January and ORIX management strategy that's going to be applied working together with the CEO, Inoue-san. We want to increase the number of opportunities where we can communicate about this with you. And we don't know if there's going to be a midterm announcement or not, we still have to discuss this, to figure it out. But we want to do as much as we can and also share information as early as possible about strengthening of our management of the company.

因此，最後的討論當然會深入進行，首席營運長高橋先生將於一月份上任，歐力士的管理策略將與執行長井上先生一起實施。我們希望增加與您就此事進行溝通的機會。我們不知道是否會有中期選舉結果公佈，我們仍需進行討論以得出結論。但我們希望盡我們所能，並儘早分享有關加強公司管理的資訊。

Thank you very much. That was very helpful.

非常感謝。這非常有幫助。

Thank you very much. So we have gone over the scheduled time. So we'd like to entertain the next question as the last question.

非常感謝。因此我們已經超出了預定的時間。因此，我們想將下一個問題作為最後一個問題來討論。

Otsuka-san, SBI Securities.

大塚先生，SBI 證券公司。

This is Otsuka from SBU Securities. I hope you can hear my voice okay.

我是 SBU 證券公司的大塚。我希望你能聽到我的聲音。

Yes, we can.

是的，我們可以。

Thank you. So on page 4, So I am referring to page 4. And in the investment, so Greenko's profit was reincorporated, I understand, in this investment. And according to the number that you have shared, so this will be in excess of 100%. But this finance and also operation, the profit -- the probability of achieving this profit forecast, if you could share with us your expectations in the fourth quarter. Can you expect -- is there any other deals that would allow you to build up more profit in order for you to achieve 100% by end of the year or would it be behind? If you could just give us a color whether you'll be behind your plan or not?

謝謝。在第 4 頁，所以我指的是第 4 頁。在投資中，據我了解，Greenko 的利潤被重新納入了這項投資中。並且根據您分享的數字，這個數字將超過 100%。但是這個財務和運營，利潤——實現這個利潤預測的可能性，如果您可以與我們分享您對第四季度的預期。您能否預期——是否有其他交易可以讓您累積更多利潤，以便您在年底前實現 100% 的利潤目標，或者會落後嗎？您能否告訴我們您是否會堅持您的計畫？

But just as you have shared. As to Greenko, the sales related, the profit based on the asset, so it will allow us to overshoot the initial budget of ours so far as the profit of investment is concerned. So we would, of course, continue to do our best in achieving 100% for each of these categories.

但正如您所分享的。對於Greenko來說，相關的銷售額、基於資產的利潤，因此就投資利潤而言，它將使我們超出我們最初的預算。因此，我們當然會繼續盡最大努力，使每個類別都達到 100% 的水平。

But within finance, China and also the recovery being slow in the United States, for example, would we need to be the factors of uncertainty, especially in Greater China. So we don't try to build the asset just for the sake of achieving these numbers. That would not be the case. So just as been asked by Tsujino-san earlier, especially with regard to renewable energy, we are affected by the spot market pricing. So therefore, we would be making the optimal and appropriate decision whenever proves to be necessary. So we may be affected in a negative way as a result.

但在金融領域，例如中國以及美國的復甦緩慢，我們會認為存在不確定因素，尤其是在大中華區。因此，我們不會只是為了實現這些數字而去建構資產。事實並非如此。正如 Tsujino 先生之前所問的那樣，特別是在可再生能源方面，我們受到現貨市場定價的影響。因此，每當有必要時，我們都會做出最佳且適當的決定。因此我們可能會受到負面影響。

But if I may repeat myself, so we, of course, continue to do our best in achieving what we have aspired to for the full year. But the investment, of course, the largest contribution would come from Greenko sales. I'm sorry, but I may not be answering to your question in a straight-forward manner, but still.

但如果我可以重複一遍的話，我們當然會繼續盡最大努力實現我們全年的目標。但這筆投資中最大的貢獻當然來自於 Greenko 的銷售。很抱歉，我可能無法直接回答您的問題，但仍然可以。

So from your responsibility and your title, so this achievement, Greenko sales is incorporated. So the likelihood of this achievement is heightening?

所以從你的職責和你的頭銜來看，所以這項成就，Greenko 銷售就被納入了。那麼，實現這目標的可能性正在增加嗎？

Well, it's kind of difficult to answer directly to your question. So finance, operation, there are some aspects of the strength that is enjoyed, but there are some variance. In other words, there are some businesses that are not performing just as well with that as compared to others. So this is why we need to proceed with the sales of Greenko. And for sure, that would allow us to achieve what we have intended to.

嗯，直接回答你的問題有點困難。因此，在財務、營運等方面，我們都有優勢，但也存在一些差異。換句話說，與其他企業相比，有些企業的表現並不好。所以這就是我們需要繼續銷售 Greenko 的原因。可以肯定的是，這將使我們能夠實現我們的目的。

Thank you very much for giving us a color.

非常感謝您帶給我們色彩。

Thank you. So with this, we'd like to conclude the Q&A session. And I would like to ask Yamamoto to share his closing remarks.

謝謝。至此，我們想結束問答環節。我想請山本作最後發言。

Thank you very much for spending a long time with us, and sorry that we have a shortest schedule. Midterm plan and the new management, we have received many questions about those as well. So I would like to make sure that this message will be relayed back to the executive management and the Board meeting. And we want to make sure that our disclosures and the message will not suffer because of these changes.

非常感謝您花了這麼長時間與我們在一起，並且很抱歉我們的時間安排非常緊湊。中期計劃和新管理層，我們也收到了很多有關這些的問題。因此，我想確保這個訊息能夠傳達給執行管理層和董事會會議。我們希望確保我們的揭露和資訊不會因為這些變化而受到影響。

Now management is being strengthened within the organization, which means that we don't want to do just what we have done in the past. With regard to the concept about the new management, we want to include Inoue-san and Takahashi-san, maybe separately or together, and increase the number of opportunities to communicate to you. So when such opportunity arises, we hope that you can give us your valuable time to listen to our stories. Thank you very much for your kind participation.

現在組織內部在加強管理，也就是說我們不想再重複過去做過的事情了。關於新管理層的理念，我們希望將井上先生和高橋先生納入其中，無論是單獨還是一起，並增加與你們溝通的機會。所以當這樣的機會出現時，我們希望您能抽出寶貴的時間來傾聽我們的故事。非常感謝您的熱情參與。

That concludes the third quarter earnings call for ORIX Corporation. We really appreciate you staying until the end of the program. Thank you.

以上就是歐力士集團第三季​​財報電話會議的全部內容。我們非常感謝您堅持到專案結束。謝謝。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中的英文陳述是由現場翻譯說出的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。