ORIX Corp (IX) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for joining ORIX Corporation for Annual Results for the course of the fiscal year ended March 31, 2025, despite your very busy schedule. I'll give the message summary. My name Nakane from IR and Sustainability Department. Thank you for this opportunity. The attendee at today's conference is Member of the Board, Represent Executive Officer, President and CEO, Hidetake Takahashi; and also Kazuki Yamamoto, operator and responsible for Investor Relations.

感謝您在百忙之中抽空參加歐力士株式會社2025年3月31日止財政年度的年度業績發表會。我將對訊息進行總結。我叫 Nakane，來自投資者關係和永續發展部門。感謝您給我這個機會。今天出席會議的有董事會成員、代表執行官、總裁兼執行長 Hidetake Takahashi；以及營運商和負責投資者關係的 Kazuki Yamamoto。

Inoue, Takahashi and Yamamoto will present followed by Q&A session. The briefing session is scheduled to last approximately one hour. I would like to hand over to Mr. Yamamoto.

Inoue、Takahashi 和 Yamamoto 將進行演講，隨後進行問答環節。簡報會預計將持續約一小時。我想把時間交給山本先生。

I am Yamamoto from ORIX. So I would like to now report on the consolidated net income for ORIX for '25 March end. So please refer to page 3 to begin with.

我是 ORIX 的山本。因此，我現在想報告歐力士截至 3 月 25 日的合併淨收入。因此請先參閱第 3 頁。

So consolidated net income for the fiscal year ending March 2025 was JPY351.6 billion, which was announced at 3:30. Although it was -- it fell short by 9.8% compared to the forecast of JPY390 billion, but the net income was up 2% from the previous year's result of JPY346.1 billion.

因此，截至2025年3月的財年合併淨收入為3,516億日元，該數字於3:30公佈。雖然與預測的 3,900 億日圓相比下降了 9.8%，但淨收入比去年的 3,461 億日元成長了 2%。

ORIX once again achieved record high profit. The full year ROE was 8.8%. At the end of FY25 March end, the market had changed significantly with increased uncertainty due to the disruptions in the global supply chain and fluctuations in resource prices.

歐力士再次創下獲利新高。全年ROE為8.8%。截至2025財年3月底，由於全球供應鏈中斷和資源價格波動，市場發生了重大變化，不確定性增加。

As a result, we reviewed future prospects for our businesses. And after considering these uncertainties, we recorded total impairments of JPY53.1 billion on a pretax basis for some assets and investments.

因此，我們重新審視了我們業務的未來前景。考慮到這些不確定性因素後，我們對部分資產和投資提列了稅前總計531億日圓的減損準備。

On the other hand, many segments, including PE and Concession, Aircraft and Ships and Corporate Financial Services improved their performance, leading to another record high profit for the full year. On the next page, we will explain pretax profit and segment profit based on the 3 categories.

另一方面，私募股權及特許經營、飛機及船舶、企業金融服務等多個板塊業績有所提升，全年利潤再創歷史新高。在下一頁，我們將根據這 3 個類別解釋稅前利潤和分部利潤。

Now slide 4. If you could refer to the bottom row of the table below compared to the net income of JPY351.6 billion mentioned earlier, pretax profit was JPY480.5 billion, which is JPY10.5 billion more than the same period last year. The profit from the 10 segments, excluding headquarters costs, came at JPY544.7 billion.

現在是幻燈片 4。如果您可以參考下表的底行，與前面提到的3516億日元的淨收入相比，稅前利潤為4805億日元，比去年同期增加了105億日元。扣除總部成本後，10個部門的利潤達到5,447億日圓。

Now I will explain the breakdown using the three categories. First, profit from the finance category was JPY176.3 billion. Last year, we booked a gain from the sales of ORIX Credit. So excluding that impact, profits were higher. The main factors behind the profit increase was strong investment income from ORIX Life Insurance and the US private credit businesses.

現在我將按這三個類別來解釋細分。第一，金融類利潤為1763億日圓。去年，我們從歐力士信貸的銷售中獲得了收益。因此，排除這種影響，利潤會更高。利潤成長的主要因素是歐力士人壽和美國私人信貸業務的強勁投資收益。

The profit from the operation category was JPY200.2 billion. Profit declined year over year, mainly due to our conservative revision of plans more than the conservative plan of FY22 March end for the coal and biomass coal-fired power plants that resulted in an impairment of approximately JPY20 billion. On the other hand, contributions from Kansai [3] Airports, ROBECO, and Santoku shipping resulted in higher profits, excluding impairments. Regarding the investment category, segment profits were JPY168.2 billion, a significant increase of JPY56.2 billion compared to the same period last year.

營業類利潤為2002億日圓。利潤年減，主要原因是我們對煤炭和生物質燃煤發電廠的計劃進行了保守的修訂，超過了2022財年3月底的保守計劃，導致減值約200億日元。另一方面，關西[3]機場、ROBECO和Santoku航運的貢獻帶來了更高的利潤（扣除減損損失）。投資類別方面，分部利潤為1,682億日圓，較去年同期大幅增加562億日圓。

Two exits were realized in the domestic PE business, thanks to contributions from significant improvements in profits at investees and investment gains in the US and Real Estate segment and increased profits from equity method investees like Avolon.

國內PE事業實現2筆退出，得益於美國及房地產板塊投資對象利潤及投資收益的大幅提升，以及Avolon等權益法投資對象利潤的增加。

Next, we will explain segment profit in terms of base profit and investment gains. So please proceed to the next page. Out of total segment profits of JPY544.7 billion, the so-called base profit was JPY457.1 billion, a 5% increase from the previous year.

接下來，我們將從基本利潤和投資收益兩個角度來解釋分部利潤。因此請繼續下一頁。在5,447億日圓的分部總利潤中，所謂的基本利潤為4,571億日元，比前一年增長了5%。

Investment gains net of impairments were JPY87.6 billion -- JPY87.6 billion. Base profits exceeded JPY100 billion in all four quarters for the first time in FY25 March end. The overall operations and investment portfolio contributed solidly to profits, supported by the recovery from the pandemic, inbound demand and the steady recovery of domestic economic activities. Through value creation in our strong domestic PE investment ships, aircraft leasing and European asset management businesses and in businesses expected to grow further, we will continue to drive sustainable base profit growth for the ORIX Group.

扣除減損損失後的投資收益為876億日圓——876億日圓。2025財年3月底，四個季度的基本利潤首次超過1,000億日圓。受疫情復甦、外需需求及國內經濟活動穩定復甦的帶動，整體營運及投資組合對利潤貢獻穩健。透過我們在國內強大的PE投資船舶、飛機租賃和歐洲資產管理業務以及預計進一步增長的業務中創造價值，我們將繼續推動歐力士集團的可持續基礎利潤增長。

Additionally, investment gains through capital recycling are one of the pillars for realizing profits in a diversified operating and investment portfolio.

此外，透過資本循環獲得投資收益也是多角化經營和投資組合獲利的支柱之一。

In the fourth quarter, investment gains were a net loss of about JPY2 billion due to impairments exceeding JPY50 billion. However, we were able to record gross investment gains exceeding JPY50 billion through PE investment exits in Japan and the US, making full year gross investment gains larger than the same period last year, and second only to the first -- fiscal year FY22 March end when we booked the investment gains on the Yayoi sales.

第四季度，投資收益因減損損失超過500億日圓而淨虧損約20億日圓。然而，我們透過在日本和美國的 PE 投資退出，錄得超過 500 億日圓的總投資收益，使全年總投資收益高於去年同期，僅次於第一個財年——2022 財年 3 月底，我們在彌生出售時記入了投資收益。

Finally, we will discuss the progress of capital recycling. Please refer to slide 6. In the fiscal year ending March 2025, we recorded capital gains of JPY140.7 billion for the full year.

最後，我們來討論一下資本循環的進展。請參閱幻燈片 6。在截至 2025 年 3 月的財政年度中，我們全年的資本利得為 1,407 億日圓。

The cash inflow from the sales for the full year was about JPY645 billion, while new executions amounted to about JPY600 billion in total. So therefore, there was a difference has been indicated. The assets sold were primarily those with strong performance, such as the two domestic PE investees listed here, where optimal buyers were selected for the firms from both domestic and international bidders.

全年銷售現金流入約6,450億日元，新執行總額約6,000億日圓。因此，已經表明存在差異。出售的資產主要為業績表現優異的資產，例如此處列出的兩家國內 PE 被投資公司，這些公司均從國內和國際競標者中挑選出最佳買家。

In Corporate Financial Services, the selection of business succession targets progressed in the micro business succession M&A project faster than the past several years, resulting in three exits. Additionally, there was a significant cash inflow from the sales of a large multipurpose facility in Tokyo, which had been a long-term holding, while its value was being enhanced.

在企業金融服務領域，在微型企業繼承併購專案中，企業繼承對象的選擇比過去幾年進展更快，共有三起退出案例。此外，該公司還透過出售長期持有的東京大型多用途設施獲得了大量現金流入，其價值也不斷提升。

These cash inflows were used for new investments focused on the domestic real estate, domestic PE and aircraft following the (inaudible) IRR-focused selection process. Now among these, we proactively invested in aircraft based on the assumption that the supply and demand for aircraft will remain tight in the future. For the fiscal year -- for this fiscal year, we will continue to execute new investment, while striking the right balance between recouping investment through capital recycling. We will remain flexible in making a decision if we think the deal will contribute to ORIX's future growth. So you can see the pipeline on the following page.

這些現金流入用於以國內房地產、國內 PE 和飛機為重點的新投資，遵循（聽不清楚）以 IRR 為重點的選擇流程。其中，我們基於未來飛機供需仍將緊張的假設，積極投資飛機。對於本財政年度－對於本財政年度，我們將繼續進行新的投資，同時透過資本回收在收回投資之間取得適當的平衡。如果我們認為該交易將有助於歐力士的未來成長，我們將保持靈活的決策。因此您可以在下一頁看到管道。

Now the vertical axis representing investment amount and the horizontal axis representing the time required from investment execution to earnings contribution. So at ORIX, from the time of investment, we would try to -- swiftly try to generate the profit from like ships and aircraft. And also in addition to private equity investment on a long-term perspective, we would try to make an investment that would allow us to enjoy a capital gain for many years to come.

現在縱軸代表投資金額，橫軸代表從投資執行到收益貢獻所需的時間。因此，在歐力士，從投資之時起，我們就會嘗試──迅速從船舶和飛機等方面獲取利潤。此外，除了長期私募股權投資外，我們還會嘗試進行能夠讓我們在未來許多年享受資本利得的投資。

So we would try to identify investment that benefits from inflationary environment and also proceed with execution if we can enjoy better terms and conditions for the deal. Now -- so we would -- we had roughly about, as you can see, more than JPY2 trillion of investment, and that will remain to be unchanged.

因此，我們會嘗試尋找受益於通膨環境的投資，如果我們能夠享受更好的交易條款和條件，我們也會繼續執行。現在 — — 如您所見，我們的投資大約有 2 兆日圓以上，而且這一數字將保持不變。

And this concludes my presentation. And I would like to hand over to President, Takahashi, who will present on our forecast for the new year.

我的演講到此結束。現在我想把時間交給高橋總裁，他將介紹我們對新年的預測。

So good afternoon. So I have been appointed to be the President and CEO from January of this year. My name is Takahashi, and allow me to present from -- starting from slide number 8. So we regret that we were unable to achieve the sales of Greenko announced in January. And thus, we were not -- we were unable to meet the full year forecast net income of JPY390 billion for the fiscal year ending March 2025.

午安.因此，我從今年一月起被任命為總裁兼執行長。我叫高橋，請容許我從第 8 張投影片開始進行演講。因此，我們很遺憾未能實現 Greenko 在一月份宣布的銷售額。因此，我們無法實現截至 2025 年 3 月的財政年度 3,900 億日圓的全年預測淨收入。

However, we achieved a record net income of JPY351.6 billion and steady increased base profit, despite recording significant impairment due to our conservative forecast. So we would like to continue to grow the base profit in a steady manner going forward. And I think we do perceive this to be a great achievement this year -- the last year. ORIX's full year dividend will be JPY120.01 per share, following our dividend policy of a payout ratio of 39% of the previous year's dividend, whichever is higher.

然而，儘管由於我們的保守預測而錄得重大減值，我們仍實現了創紀錄的 3516 億日元淨收入，並穩步增加基本利潤。因此，我們希望未來繼續穩定增加基本利潤。我認為我們確實認為這是今年——也是去年——的一項偉大成就。歐力士全年股利為每股120.01日圓，遵循我們的股利政策，即派息率為上一年度股利的39%（以較高者為準）。

Next, for FY26 March end, we forecast a third consecutive year of record net income of JPY380 billion. So we will maintain our current dividend policy and assuming net income JPY380 billion, FY26 March and DPS will be JPY132. We will also increase the scale of share buybacks to JPY100 billion, double the usual amount of JPY50 billion.

接下來，我們預測 2026 財年 3 月底的淨收入將連續第三年創下 3,800 億日圓的紀錄。因此，我們將維持目前的股利政策，並假設淨收入為 3,800 億日圓，2026 財年 3 月的每股股利將為 1,320 日圓。我們也將股票回購規模從通常的500億日圓增加一倍至1,000億日圓。

This is aimed at helping to steadily improve ROE, our most important management indicator, and this has been resolved at the time of BOD today. So as a result, total shareholder return ratio, including dividend and share buyback will be 65%. Please see the next page.

這是為了幫助穩步提高我們最重要的管理指標ROE，這個問題在今天的董事會會議上已經解決。因此，包括股利和股票回購在內的股東總回報率將達到 65%。請參閱下一頁。

Next, I will discuss our view of the impact of recent macroeconomic developments on our businesses. We believe the direct impact of so-called tariff is limited, but we need to keep in mind the indirect net effects such as possible recession and exchange rate fluctuations. Regarding the possibility of a recession, for example, some existing investments and loan targets in the U.S. and Japan are expected to face rising procurement costs posting -- posing a risk of deteriorating performance. However, such clients account for a limited -- accounts for a limited portion of our portfolio.

接下來，我將討論我們對近期宏觀經濟發展對我們業務的影響的看法。我們認為所謂關稅的直接影響有限，但需要警惕可能出現的經濟衰退、匯率波動等間接淨效應。例如，關於經濟衰退的可能性，預計美國和日本的一些現有投資和貸款目標將面臨採購成本上升——帶來業績惡化的風險。然而，此類客戶在我們的投資組合中所佔比例有限。

Additionally, due to deterioration in the investment climate, there is a risk that new investments and exits may be delayed as compared to our plans, and the realization of investment gains overseas may be postponed to the next fiscal year or later. But on the other hand, domestic real estate and PE are maintaining solid momentum at the present, and we expect to achieve a good amount of investment gains from these areas in the fiscal year ending March 2026.

此外，由於投資環境惡化，新的投資和退出可能會比計劃延遲，海外投資收益的實現可能會推遲到下一個財年或更晚。但另一方面，目前國內房地產和PE保持著穩健的勢頭，我們預計在截至2026年3月的財年，將從這些領域獲得相當可觀的投資收益。

Given the [mainly] uncertainties, including geopolitical risks, we believe a cautious approach is necessary for the time being. Meanwhile, during these uncertain times, it is important to conduct the business activities with a focus on enhancing mid- to long-term corporate value and to have disciplined portfolio management. Now this means replacing assets with low capital efficiency to improve ROE.

鑑於包括地緣政治風險在內的（主要）不確定性，我們認為目前需要謹慎態度。同時，在這些不確定的時期，進行業務活動時重點關注提高中長期企業價值並進行嚴格的投資組合管理非常重要。現在這意味著更換資本效率低的資產以提高 ROE。

At any rate, ROE would have to be improved, and we would exert much of the effort in that regard. Now despite this business climate, which remains to be uncertain, we believe our FY26 March end net income target, which represents a new record high is still achievable. Now please move on to the next slide.

無論如何，交戰規則必須改善，我們將在這方面付出很大努力。儘管目前商業環境仍不明朗，但我們相信，2026 財年 3 月底創下新高的淨收入目標仍然是可以實現的。現在請看下一張投影片。

Regarding this fiscal year's forecast, we will briefly explain it by breaking it down into three categories. We expect double-digit growth in profits in the operation and investment category and continued stable growth in finance as well.

關於本財年的預測，我們分為三類來簡單解釋。我們預計營運和投資類別的利潤將達到兩位數成長，財務也將持續保持穩定成長。

As to the finance, we are focusing on high premium first sector products, targeting corporations and affluent individuals for the insurance businesses. This should allow us to grow premium income at a pace significantly exceeding that of Japanese competition.

在金融方面，我們專注於高保費第一產業產品，保險業務的目標客戶是企業和富裕個人。這將使我們的保費收入成長速度遠遠超過日本競爭對手。

This customer segment is an area where synergies with the corporate financial services can be expected, and we anticipate profit growth through expanded premium income from FY26 March. And also, we should benefit from a diversification of our investment management as well. In operations, tourism-related areas such as airport concessions and aircraft leasing are likely to be the drivers of profit growth.

該客戶群是可以與企業金融服務產生協同效應的領域，我們預計從 2026 財年 3 月開始，透過擴大保費收入實現利潤成長。此外，我們也應該從投資管理多樣化中受益。在營運方面，機場特許經營和飛機租賃等旅遊相關領域可能會成為利潤成長的驅動力。

The airport concessions business has completed a major renovation of Terminal 1 at Kansai International Airport in March, expanding international passenger intake capacity by 1.7x. So and preparing for increased passenger traffic due to the Osaka Expo. In investments, we anticipate profit growth through continuous capital recycling in real estate and PE segments by leveraging our extensive network and being capable of real estate development from sourcing properties and projects to exits.

機場特許經營業務已於 3 月完成了關西國際機場 1 號航站樓的大規模翻新，將國際旅客接待能力擴大了 1.7 倍。因此，我們要為大阪世博會帶來的客流量增加做好準備。在投資方面，我們利用廣泛的網絡以及從尋找物業和項目到退出的房地產開發能力，透過在房地產和 PE 領域不斷的資本循環，預計將實現利潤增長。

Please turn to the next page. Finally, with regards to shareholder returns, previous full year dividend of JPY120.1 per share was a record high and a CAGR of 21% in dividends per share since the fiscal year ending March 2011.

請翻到下一頁。最後，關於股東回報，上一年度每股股息為 120.1 日元，創歷史新高，自 2011 年 3 月結束的財年以來，每股股息的複合年增長率為 21%。

And we will continue the dividend policy of having a payout ratio of 39% or the previous year's dividend, which is higher. And based on the forecast net income of JPY380 billion, the dividend forecast for this fiscal year will be JPY132 per share. We intend to continue implementing share buybacks. I already mentioned JPY100 billion, but we will do this flexibly to achieve sustainable EPS growth and optimize capital at the same time. Moving on to long-term vision and the 3-year plan.

我們將繼續實施股利政策，股利支付率為 39%，或高於前一年的股利。並根據預測淨利3800億日圓計算，本財年股利預測為每股132日圓。我們打算繼續實施股票回購。我已經提到了 1000 億日元，但我們將靈活地實現這一目標，以實現可持續的每股收益成長並同時優化資本。轉向長期願景和三年計劃。

Please skip to page 13. In formulating the new three-year plan, we started with the premise of the ORIX Group's purpose, which was established last year. And based on this, we drew up our goal and targets. And 10 years from now, ORIX vision for 2035 is to make impact through alternative investments, operations and business solutions. We will work to achieve an ROE of 15% and a net profit of JPY1 trillion in the fiscal year ending March 2035, 10 years from now.

請跳至第 13 頁。在製定新的三年計畫時，我們以去年確定的歐力士集團宗旨為前提。在此基礎上，我們制定了我們的目標和指標。十年後，歐力士的 2035 年願景是透過另類投資、營運和業務解決方案產生影響。我們將努力在10年後的2035年3月止的財年實現ROE達到15%、淨利潤達到1兆日圓。

And we also recognize that ROE improvement is ORIX top's management priority for our new 3-year plan, which starts this fiscal year. We aim to achieve an ROE of 11% in fiscal year ending March 2028, final year of a three-year plan. Please turn to the next page. To realize this long-term vision, we have three focus areas. I would like to explain about the growth strategy.

我們也意識到，提高ROE是歐力士高層在本財年開始的新三年計畫中的管理重點。我們的目標是在截至 2028 年 3 月的財政年度（三年計劃的最後一年）實現 11% 的 ROE。請翻到下一頁。為了實現這個長期願景，我們有三個重點領域。我想解釋一下成長策略。

So we have pathways, growth and impact. These are the 3 focus investment areas. And we want to evolve our strength in our two business models, alternative investments and operations and business solutions to achieve a sustainable growth cycle. Business solutions are there in order to solve or address our customers' problems. With regard to pathways, the focus is on technological evolution, aiming to achieve new areas of impact in the future economy.

所以我們有途徑、有成長、有影響。這是三個重點投資領域。我們希望在另類投資和營運以及業務解決方案這兩種商業模式上發揮優勢，實現可持續的成長週期。商業解決方案是為了解決或處理我們客戶的問題。在路徑上，重點在於技術演進，旨在實現未來經濟的新影響領域。

Growth focuses on global population growth and demographic changes, supporting sustainable growth in a changing world. Impact addresses global warming and limited resources. We are aiming to make a positive impact on these issues. While we already have businesses in these key areas, we intend to further strengthen cross-segment collaboration, combining the strength of each segment expanded over the past decades to develop business at scale in each area. While these two business models are the ones that we have traditionally possessed.

成長關注全球人口成長和人口結構變化，支持在不斷變化的世界中的永續成長。影響解決全球暖化和資源有限問題。我們的目標是對這些問題產生正面影響。雖然我們已經在這些關鍵領域開展業務，但我們打算進一步加強跨部門合作，結合過去幾十年來各部門的優勢，在各個領域開展規模化業務。而這兩種商業模式都是我們傳統上所擁有的。

The asset value creation model will evolve into an asset management business, incorporating third-party capital in each business, transforming into an asset-light business structure. This is our plan. In a model for solving clients' issues, we provide solutions to global clients' challenges, such as M&A brokerage, focused on business succession opportunities within the Japanese market, which has actually grown to a considerable scale. We aim to strengthen our revenue base with asset-light fee-based models. Please turn to the next page.

資產價值創造模式將向資產管理業務演進，在各項業務中引入第三方資本，轉向輕資產業務結構。這是我們的計劃。在解決客戶問題的模式中，我們針對已發展到相當規模的日本市場，以企業繼承機會為中心，提供M&A經紀等全球客戶主題的解決方案。我們的目標是透過輕資產收費模式來加強我們的收入基礎。請翻到下一頁。

Now I would like to explain about specific measures to achieve our long-term vision. We will implement three key measures. The first is disciplined portfolio management. Second, sophisticated risk management; and third, new business creation. These are the essence of management for ORIX Group in my own opinion as well.

現在我想解釋一下實現我們長期願景的具體措施。我們將實施三項重點措施。首先是嚴格的投資組合管理。二是風險管理精細化；第三，創造新業務。在我看來，這也是歐力士集團經營的精髓。

So we want to execute all three without fail, and the details can be found on the bottom of the slide. We also believe that disciplined portfolio management is particularly important for improving ROE. As before, we will realize business value through capital recycling moving forward, but we will also visualize the growth potential, capital efficiency, impact on credit ratings of each business and asset at a much finer granularity. This will enable us to optimize and reconfigure the portfolio and improve ROE, which is the most important theme for the management of the group. In relation to enhancing our existing businesses, as you saw in the previous page.

因此，我們希望毫無差錯地執行這三項任務，詳細資訊請參閱幻燈片底部。我們也認為，嚴格的投資組合管理對於提高 ROE 尤其重要。和以前一樣，我們未來將透過資本循環來實現業務價值，但我們也將以更精細的粒度來視覺化每個業務和資產的成長潛力、資本效率以及對信用評級的影響。這將使我們能夠優化和重新配置投資組合併提高ROE，這是集團管理層最重要的主題。關於加強我們現有的業務，正如您在上一頁所看到的。

We aim for sustainable growth of the bottom line through new businesses centered on the strategic focus areas, which was outlined in the previous page. We will invest management resources to maximize growth in the numerator part of the ROE formula. Please on to the next page. I would like to explain the ROE targets and initiatives for ROE improvement in our new 3-year plan in the 3 categories of finance operations and investments. In Finance, we aim for a double-digit ROE growth through accumulation of alternative investments and syndication, including addition of third-party funds, selection and concentration within Asia and the expansion of nonfinancial revenue through the model of solving clients' issues.

我們的目標是透過圍繞戰略重點領域的新業務實現利潤的可持續增長，這在上一頁已有概述。我們將投入管理資源，以實現 ROE 公式分子部分的成長最大化。請翻到下一頁。我先從金融營運和投資三個面向講一下我們新三年規劃中的ROE目標和提升ROE的舉措。在金融領域，我們致力於透過累積另類投資和聯合投資，包括增加第三方基金、在亞洲進行選擇和集中以及透過解決客戶問題的模式擴大非金融收入，實現兩位數的 ROE 成長。

In operations, we aim to improve ROE through horizontal rollout of asset management business in real estate, renewable energy, aircraft and ships and enhancing services and inbound businesses. We want to improve it to 15%. The -- in the investment category ROE may fluctuate depending on exits, but we aim to improve ROE to 11% on a multiyear average basis by accelerating capital recycling and forming PE funds. Recently, we announced the sale of ORIX Asset Management and Loan Services Corporation. And we intend to continue optimizing the business portfolio across the three categories without setting aside any area as a sacred cow.

在營運方面，我們旨在透過橫向拓展房地產、再生能源、飛機和船舶等資產管理業務，以及加強服務和入境業務來提高ROE。我們希望將其提高到15%。投資類別中的 ROE 可能會根據退出情況而波動，但我們的目標是透過加速資本循環和組成 PE 基金，將 ROE 提高到多年平均 11%。最近，我們宣佈出售歐力士資產管理和貸款服務公司。我們打算繼續優化這三個類別的業務組合，不會將任何領域視為不可侵犯的。

Our strength has been able to approach sectors and regions from three different angles: finance operations and investments and our ability to undertake hands-on investment and operations utilizing expertise in finance, which is a founding business. Over the mid- to long term, our portfolio will shift more towards operation and investments. But it is important to maintain abilities in all 3, not just categories but methodologies. Please turn to the next page. Finally, I'd like to explain the policy regarding capital allocation and shareholder returns in our new three-year plan.

我們的優勢在於能夠從三個不同的角度接觸各個行業和地區：金融運營和投資，以及利用金融專業知識進行實際投資和運營的能力，這是我們的創始業務。從中長期來看，我們的投資組合將更多地轉向營運和投資。但重要的是保持這三種能力，不僅是類別，還有方法論。請翻到下一頁。最後我想解釋一下我們新三年規劃中關於資本配置和股東回報的政策。

While continuing to maintain an A credit rating, we will persist with the policy of distributing 39% of net profit as dividends. And for March '26 fiscal year, we have JPY100 billion share buyback. Looking at the capital recycling, we will be flexibly conducting share buyback to optimize capital and also, at the same time, grow EPS sustainably. We believe that credit mission for me is to enhance long-term enterprise value and the stock value. Since EPS growth and improvement ROE have a correlation with rising stock prices, I want to reiterate that we will thoroughly focus on capital allocation and portfolio management that emphasizes the growth potential and capital efficiency.

在持續維持A級信用評等的同時，我們將繼續堅持39%的淨利作為股利分配的政策。在 2026 年 3 月的財年，我們回購了 1,000 億日圓的股票。在資本循環方面，我們將靈活地進行股票回購，以優化資本，同時持續增加每股盈餘。我們相信，我的信貸使命是提升企業的長期價值和股票價值。由於 EPS 成長和 ROE 改善與股價上漲之間存在相關性，因此我想重申，我們將徹底關注強調成長潛力和資本效率的資本配置和投資組合管理。

And the impact on credit ratings of each business, while optimizing capital to achieve sustainable EPS growth and ROE improvement. This concludes the brief overview of our long-term vision and a new 3-year plan. Please turn to page 18. And I would like to recap the key objectives once again. We aim for an ROE of 15% and net profit of JPY1 trillion for the fiscal year ending March 2035 as a management KPI.

以及對各業務信用評級的影響，同時優化資本以實現可持續的EPS成長和ROE的提高。這就是我們長期願景和新三年計畫的簡要概述。請翻到第18頁。我想再次重申主要目標。我們的目標是，2035年3月止財年的ROE達到15%，淨利達1兆日圓，作為經營KPI。

And there's an interim milestone of ROE 11% for the fiscal year ending March 2028. This is the most important goal for that new 3-year plan. And regarding the JPY100 trillion AUM target in asset management, we aim to achieve this within these 3 years, and we plan to further expand AUM. That was a quick view on our long-term vision and our new 3-year plan. Thank you very much for your kind attention.

截至 2028 年 3 月的財年，ROE 的中期里程碑為 11%。這是新三年計畫最重要的目標。關於資產管理規模100兆日圓的目標，我們計劃在3年內實現，並計劃進一步擴大AUM。這是對我們的長期願景和新的三年計劃的簡要回顧。非常感謝您的關注。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

So to the person at the farthest right on the first row in the venue.

所以對於會場第一排最右邊的人。

I am Watanabe from Daiwa Securities. I'd like to ask a question with regard to capital policy. So the buyback is now being doubled to JPY100 billion. And on page 17 in the orange box. So maybe JPY150 billion or more is expected to be repurchased.

我是大和證券的渡邊。我想問一個有關資本政策的問題。因此，現在回購規模已翻倍至 1,000 億日圓。在第 17 頁的橘色框中。因此預計回購金額可能達到1500億日圓甚至更多。

So if you could be so kind to share the idea to the shareholders' return as well as the shares repurchased program.

因此，如果您能與我們分享有關股東回報以及股票回購計劃的想法，那該怎麼辦？

So we have been targeting at achieving double-digit ROE and -- but now we have positioned ROE to be the first and foremost important management target, which means that we need to address both the denominator as well as the numerator in order to improve our ROE. And as for the denominator, we would have to continue to carry out the shares repurchase program in order to achieve capital efficiency. So -- and also capital recycling, the timing of the investment. We have to strike the right balance in addressing the numerator. So therefore, we would have to carry that out in a very flexible manner.

因此，我們一直致力於實現兩位數的 ROE，但現在我們已將 ROE 定位為首要的管理目標，這意味著我們需要同時解決分母和分子問題，以提高我們的 ROE。至於分母，我們必須繼續執行股票回購計劃，以實現資本效率。所以——還有資本循環，投資時機。我們必須在解決分子問題上取得適當的平衡。因此，我們必須以非常靈活的方式來實現這一目標。

In a short time period, if there was to be, of course, a better opportunity, attractive opportunity for us to gain on the investment that has to be made, but the investment and divestment, there could be some discrepancies. We will not be able to perhaps achieve a good enough balance. So divestment amount may perhaps be in excess of the possible investment, then we will be able to allocate such amount to shares repurchased. So in any case, we would like to continue to focus on ROE, so far as the management indicator is concerned.

在短時間內，如果有更好的機會、有吸引力的機會讓我們從必須進行的投資中獲益，但投資和撤資可能會存在一些差異。我們可能無法達到足夠好的平衡。因此，撤資金額可能超過可能的投資，那麼我們可以將該金額分配給回購的股票。因此，無論如何，就管理指標而言，我們希望繼續專注於 ROE。

And also, you have mentioned about focusing on EPS, and which means that you are incorporating the double-digit growth. Is there any kind of changes in the idea behind that?

另外，您提到關注每股收益，這意味著您正在實現兩位數的成長。這背後的想法有什麼改變嗎？

No, no changes. But basically, I said that we would turn more proactive in terms of shares repurchase program because 70% of the profit is base profit, and the others are consisted of capital gain basically that is. But the capital gain in a linear manner to grow this -- in a linear manner, I think will be difficult. So this is why from the perspective of cash in and cash out, as we have said. So there could be a possibility of more cash in than the cash out, then in such a circumstance by carrying out the shares repurchase program, we'll be able to enhance EPS -- I'm sorry, my voices are becoming a little croky.

不，沒有變化。但基本上，我說我們會在股票回購計畫方面變得更加積極主動，因為 70% 的利潤是基本利潤，其餘的基本上都是資本利得。但以線性方式增加資本收益，我認為會很困難。所以這就是為什麼從現金流入和現金流出的角度來看，正如我們所說的那樣。因此，現金流入可能大於現金流出，在這種情況下，透過實施股票回購計劃，我們將能夠提高每股收益——對不起，我的聲音有點嘶啞。

And -- but at any rate, at EPS, we would like to continue to grow EPS steadily in a linear manner, and then that is our idea.

並且 — — 但無論如何，對於 EPS，我們希望繼續以線性方式穩定成長 EPS，這就是我們的想法。

Second row in the front.

前面第二排。

SMBC Nikko Securities. My name is Muraki. I have a question about your capital allocation. page 48 on the right-hand side, I can see a diagram. And ROE improvement, in order to improve ROE, investments must be shifted from light red to the darker red in the center and potentially push to the upper side of this slide.

三井住友日興證券。我的名字是 Muraki。我對您的資本配置有一個疑問。第 48 頁右側，我可以看到一個圖表。為了提高 ROE，投資必須從淺紅色轉移到中間的深紅色，並可能推向幻燈片的上側。

I think that's what you're trying to do. Now with regard to investments, Capital allocation, which part do you intend to shrink? That's my question. And also, in terms of the share buyback for this fiscal year and the next fiscal year, page 17 shows about JPY300 billion -- I think, more than JPY300 billion. Is this the number for the upside -- at the time of upside?

我認為這就是你想要做的。現在關於投資、資本配置，您打算縮減哪一部分？這就是我的問題。此外，就本財年和下一財年的股票回購而言，第 17 頁顯示約為 3,000 億日圓——我認為超過 3,000 億日圓。這是上漲時的數字嗎？

Or is this based on the standard scenario in terms of investment? What is the scenario for the share buyback on page 17.

還是這是基於投資方面的標準情境？第 17 頁的股票回購情境是什麼。

In order to improve ROE, there are several things that can be done. One is revisiting capital allocation and low capital efficiency will be released. That's one thing. And another thing is we want to maintain A rating and also conduct share buyback in a flexible manner. As I said before, and we need to set aside some amount.

為了提高 ROE，可以做幾件事。一是重新檢視資本配置，低下的資本效率將會被釋放。這是一回事。另一件事是我們希望維持 A 評級並以靈活的方式進行股票回購。正如我之前所說，我們需要留出一些金額。

Well, 2 days ago, there was an article about me in the newspaper, JPY4.1 trillion equity, and out of that ratio between the goodwill and intangibles. This is about just over JPY1 trillion. And in terms of rating, excluding -- this will have to be excluded for the purpose of rating. So in terms of asset or capital, goodwill and intangibles. The ratio of these 2 pieces.

嗯，兩天前，報紙上有一篇關於我的文章，4.1兆日圓的股權，以及商譽和無形資產之間的比率。這大約是1兆日圓多一點。就評級而言，排除——為了評級的目的，必須排除這一點。因此就資產或資本、商譽及無形資產而言。這兩塊的比例。

If the ratio is higher, then we will be less likely to be able to do a share buyback. So my point is there are multiple factors involved and there are pros and cons. And we want to look at them at a high level of granularity so asset investment or divestment. What is the impact on our financial statement? We want to look at this, monitor this at a higher level of granularity.

如果該比率較高，那麼我們回購股票的可能性就會較小。所以我的觀點是，這涉及多種因素，有利有弊。我們希望從高層次的細緻角度來看待資產投資或撤資。對我們的財務報表有什麼影響？我們希望以更高的粒度來觀察和監控這一點。

And we want to visualize it high level of granularity. And based on quantitative data, we want to execute capital recycling. So this is what I meant by ROE improvement. The most important management measure is rigorous portfolio management. This is why I said that earlier.

我們希望將其以高粒度進行可視化。並基於量化數據，實現資本循環。這就是我所說的 ROE 改善。最重要的管理措施是嚴格的投資組合管理。這就是我之前這麼說的原因。

And with regard to the numbers, I would like to refer this to Yamamoto-san.

關於數字，我想向山本先生請教。

Yes. You have a question about page 48. I would like to explain about the numbers, 11% 3 years. Upside for the investment category, this is not really reflected directly. But based on the current portfolio, the horizontal axis, in fact is a percentage of capital allocated.

是的。您對第 48 頁有疑問。我想解釋一下這個數字，3年11%。對於投資類別的上行，這並沒有真正直接反映出來。但根據目前的投資組合，橫軸實際上是分配的資本百分比。

And this is out of the consolidated capital. How much each category receives in terms of percentage breakdown. So investment will be repeated and accumulated. So divestiture and the investment will be repeated over and over. And this is how we enable this.

這還不包括合併資本。各類別獲得的百分比是多少。所以投資就會重複、累積。因此，資產剝離和投資將會不斷重複。這就是我們實現這一目標的方法。

So ROE will be pushed up through this process. And this is already taken into account, and we want to achieve 11%. For the first year of this plan, share buyback will be now changed from JPY50 billion to JPY100 billion because of this background. And as we move forward with future capital recycling, as I said -- as we said, there is no sacred cow, no stone will be left unturned. So we will continue to make these efforts in order to achieve 11%.

因此，ROE 將會透過這個過程被推高。這已經被考慮到了，我們希望達到 11%。在此背景下，該計畫第一年的股票回購規模將從500億日圓調整為1,000億日圓。隨著我們未來資本循環的推進，正如我所說——正如我們所說，沒有什麼是神聖不可侵犯的，一切都將被竭盡全力。因此，我們將繼續努力，以實現 11% 的目標。

This is what we are trying to show with the bubble chart on the right-hand side of page 48.

這就是我們試圖透過第 48 頁右側的氣泡圖來展示的內容。

So withdraw from low profitability business and also share buyback. How do you incentivize these measures? Because the remuneration for the directors traditionally, sees net income as a key KPI, and ROE was not really taken into account.

因此，退出低獲利業務並回購股票。您如何激勵這些措施？因為董事薪酬傳統上以淨利潤作為關鍵KPI，而ROE並沒有被真正考慮進去。

There are 2 things. I assume this position of the presidency in January and the Head of Segment and Head of Administrative Department, all of them, I have repeatedly delivered the message that we have to be focused on ROE. So I'm trying to change people's mindset. And secondly, having said all that, reflecting this into the executive remuneration, of course, is important. Well, we didn't have enough time this time around.

有兩件事。我於一月擔任總裁一職，在擔任部門主管和行政部門主管期間，我曾多次傳達這樣的訊息：我們必須專注於 ROE。所以我正在嘗試改變人們的心態。其次，說了這麼多，當然，將這一點反映在高階主管薪酬中是很重要的。嗯，這次我們的時間不夠。

Starting from January with the AGM, we could have introduced a new remuneration system, but there are different potential designs, so we would like to spend some more time discussing different possibilities. And by next year, ROE linked incentive structure, hopefully will be introduced. So [11%] as much achievement in 2028 and going down to 10% or single digit in the following year, that is not really what we want. We want to see rolling recurring mid- to long-term ROE improvement. And therefore, incentive system has to be in line with that idea.

從一月份的年度股東大會開始，我們本可以引入新的薪酬制度，但存在不同的潛在設計，因此我們想花更多時間討論不同的可能性。到明年，預計將推出與 ROE 掛鉤的激勵結構。因此，2028 年取得 [11%] 的成就，而第二年卻下降到 10% 或個位數，這並不是我們真正想要的。我們希望看到中長期 ROE 持續改善。因此，激勵制度必須符合此理念。

So we'll be carefully designing the system. So starting from next year, hopefully, we can introduce the new incentive system.

所以我們會仔細設計這個系統。因此，希望從明年開始，我們可以引進新的激勵制度。

So the second person on the second row.

所以是第二排的第二個人。

Sato from JPMorgan. So for this year, the profit plan. So in what way will you -- did you apply your conservative estimate. So for the year that had ended, the gross capital gain and net capital gain, if we were to refer to those numbers. So impairment of JPY50 billion-plus also can be observed.

摩根大通的佐藤。那麼對於今年來說，獲利計畫。那麼，您將以什麼方式——您是否應用了您的保守估計。因此，對於已經結束的一年，如果我們參考這些數字，那就是總資本利得和淨資本利得。因此，也可以觀察到500多億日圓的減損。

But this time, the segment profit, the increase is roughly about JPY55 billion. So if impairment is going to go away or you are just expecting the increase in profit by the same magnitude of the possible impairment. So what is your expectations and especially for the like base profit? And also, is there any kind of conservatism that is reflected, if you could be so kind enough to respond.

但這次分部利潤，增加的幅度大約是550億日圓左右。因此，如果減損即將消失，或者您只是預期利潤將以與可能的減損相同的幅度增加。那麼您期望什麼，特別是對於基本利潤？另外，這其中是否體現出某種保守主義，您能否回答？

There are some conservatism. But also, we are, on the other hand, aggressive or proactive. And at the end of the day, we think that this profit is achievable, and this is why we made the announcement. But for example, unfortunately, the Greenko sales was not executed in the last year. So according to the [SPA], it was a long stop date.

存在一些保守主義。但另一方面，我們也是積極主動的。最終，我們認為這個利潤是可以實現的，這就是我們宣布這一消息的原因。但不幸的是，Greenko 的銷售在去年沒有執行。因此，根據 [SPA]，這是一個很長的截止日期。

But after April 2, we had -- unfortunately, we were not able to reach to the full amount as a result of the procurement of the fund. So the market has been quite volatile every single day. So this is why, but our intent remains to be unchanged. Once the market kind of quietens down and if the fund is available, then we should be able to start this program. And -- so from that perspective, it is true that we have not incorporated such an amount into the plan.

但在 4 月 2 日之後，不幸的是，由於資金購買的原因，我們無法達到全部金額。因此市場每天都非常不穩定。原因就是這樣，但我們的意圖保持不變。一旦市場平靜下來，並且有資金可用，我們就應該能夠啟動這個計劃。從這個角度來看，我們確實沒有將這樣的金額納入計劃。

And as to the ForEx JPY100 -- or mid JPY140 was expected. But according to the forward, it is about JPY144. So the forward, if that becomes the spot rate, then there could be a possible downside slightly, that is. So be it upside, downside, putting that all together, JPY380 billion of net income. Whether this is enough or not, I'm sure you may have different opinions about this.

而外匯交易預計為 100 日圓－或 140 日圓中段。但根據遠期匯率，約為144日圓。因此，如果遠期匯率成為現貨匯率，那麼可能會出現小幅下跌。因此，無論好壞，加起來，淨收入為 3800 億日元。這是否足夠，我相信您可能對此有不同的看法。

But we think that this is achievable, and this is why we have made such announcement today.

但我們認為這是可以實現的，這就是我們今天宣布這項消息的原因。

Well, if possible, for this fiscal period, the base profit starting from last year. So I know if you could be so kind enough to explain whether you are expecting growth.

嗯，如果可能的話，對於這個財政期間，基礎利潤是從去年開始的。所以我知道您是否可以解釋一下您是否期待成長。

Well, not growth by 10% to 20%. You mean by pretax profit? Yes, we are expecting the growth to be enjoyed. So if I may give the breakdown. So in coming up with this plan, and we have taken into account all that needs to and real estate related because of inflation.

嗯，不是成長 10% 到 20%。你指的是稅前利潤嗎？是的，我們期待實現成長。所以我可以給詳細分析。因此，在製定這個計劃時，我們已經考慮到了所有與通貨膨脹和房地產相關的因素。

And for other reasons, the uncertainty is rising, we think, because last year's result was had being pretty smooth. And from that aspect, you may perhaps like to regard this to be conservative. But the condominium sales and also hotels and inns in the inbound tourism related, we had made the fine-tuning, taking into account this robustness of the market. But other investment, for example, we may have turned a little invest -- kind of conservative and also ships. There may be an impact from Trump tariff, but the ownership of the ships.

由於其他原因，我們認為不確定性正在上升，因為去年的結果相當順利。從這個方面來看，你也許會認為這是保守的。但對於公寓銷售以及與入境旅遊相關的酒店和旅館，我們已經做出了微調，考慮到了市場的強勁性。但是其他投資，例如，我們可能已經轉向了一點投資——有點保守，還有船舶。川普的關稅可能會產生影響，但船舶的所有權卻受到影響。

In fact, the long -- the distance of sail, in fact -- the cruise, in fact, has been extending. So therefore, that remained to be pretty strong in the last year. So there will be no negative this year. And then like a concession, for example, airport. And as for momentum, there seems to be a recovery being experienced.

事實上，長途航行的距離，事實上巡航，事實上一直在延長。因此，去年這一勢頭依然相當強勁。所以今年不會有負面影響。然後就像特許經營，例如機場。就勢頭而言，似乎正在經歷復甦。

And so therefore, on a year-over-year basis, we have come up with such a plan that you see. Thank you.

因此，我們逐年制定了這樣的計畫。謝謝。

Thank you very much for waiting. Moving on to the next person.

非常感謝您耐心等待。轉向下一個人。

This is Sakamaki, Mizuho Securities. Profit for the last year of midterm plan. I don't think you have disclosed that. I know that the ratings can be restriction. And share buyback is not unlimited, and you have to consider ROE.

我是瑞穗證券的坂卷。中期計劃最後一年的盈利。我認為你還沒有透露這一點。我知道評級可能會受到限制。而且股票回購不是無限制的，還得考慮ROE。

So in terms of Plan A, what would be the profit level. I know for this fiscal year, there's uncertainty but 2, 3 years down the line, the situation will be different. So what level of profit do you think would be achievable or acceptable?

那麼就計劃 A 而言，利潤水準是多少。我知道本財年存在不確定性，但 2、3 年後情況會有所不同。那麼您認為什麼水準的利潤是可以實現的或是可以接受的呢？

We have not announced any numbers today. So I would refrain from talking about any specific numbers, but you can maybe back calculate, reverse engineer the number. ROE is important for us, as I said before. Gross profit contribution may be there, but if the capital efficiency is low, ROE can be low or weak. And turnaround or sustainable growth cannot be expected if there is such an asset, then even if we end up losing the bottom profit or short term, we may want to prioritize ROE improvement.

我們今天還沒有公佈任何數字。因此我不會談論任何具體的數字，但你也許可以反向計算、逆向工程這個數字。正如我之前所說，ROE 對我們來說很重要。毛利貢獻可能存在，但如果資本效率低，ROE 可能會低或弱。而如果存在這樣的資產，就無法指望扭虧為盈或可持續成長，那麼即使最終損失了底線利潤，或者短期內損失了，我們也可能要優先考慮ROE的提升。

That is our intention. And in 2035, JPY1 trillion of net profit is now being targeted for. This is very challenging. This is not an objective that is easy to achieve. And it goes without saying, in order to improve ROE, we need to shrink the denominator, but also grow the numerator at the same time.

這就是我們的意圖。到2035年，其目標是實現1兆日圓的淨利。這是非常具有挑戰性的。這不是一個容易實現的目標。不言而喻，為了提高 ROE，我們需要縮小分母，但同時也增加分子。

We want to be rigorous with our portfolio management and also create new businesses. And we want to allocate maximum management resources for these areas. This is the intention behind that. So rather than being fixated on a single year bottom line, we want to improve the profitability of the midterm, long-term in a sustainable manner, so that we can flexibly do the share buyback and achieve a linear growth in EPS. So bottom gross profit level is not something that we would like to share with you today.

我們希望嚴格管理我們的投資組合併創造新的業務。我們希望為這些領域分配最大的管理資源。這就是背後的意圖。因此，我們並不局限於單一年份的盈利，而是希望以可持續的方式提高中期和長期的盈利能力，以便我們能夠靈活地進行股票回購併實現每股收益的線性增長。因此，最低毛利率水準不是我們今天想與大家分享的內容。

I hope you understand.

我希望你能理解。

Any other questions from the floor? We would like to move on to entertaining questions online from SBI Securities, Otsuka-san, would you mind unmuting and start asking questions.

還有其他問題嗎？我們想繼續回答來自 SBI 證券的線上提問，大塚先生，您介意取消靜音並開始提問嗎？

This is Otsuka from SBI Securities. I hope you can hear my voice okay.

我是 SBI 證券公司的大塚。我希望你能聽到我的聲音。

Yes, we can.

是的，我們可以。

So page 16, referring to the slide so for the new year, the ROE plan. So in these businesses, you have ROE plan that has been shown but for the first time, you have taken such an approach, right? So with regard to the achievement of ROE for each of these categories, the responsibility or commitment? How -- who is going to be to hold accountable for this or responsible for this? So like the person, the Group Officer, I don't think there's anyone who is in charge of Group Officer for finance, for example.

第 16 頁，指的是新年的幻燈片，即 ROE 計劃。所以在這些業務中，您有已經展示的 ROE 計劃，但這是您第一次採取這種方法，對嗎？那麼對於每個類別的 ROE 實現情況，責任或承諾是什麼？如何－誰將對此負責或承擔責任？因此，就像集團官員一樣，我認為沒有人專門負責集團財務。

Or you mean the segment like head of the segment may be finally responsible? Or if that is going to be the case, then the capital would have to be allocated to each of these categories or -- how does it work?

或者您的意思是像部門主管這樣的部門可能最終要負責？或者如果情況確實如此，那麼資本就必須分配給每個類別，或者──它如何運作？

Well, if I may respond to your question. As of now, these three categories, the commitment to these numbers, the management who would account the responsible is Inoue, CEO and myself COO, Takahashi, two of us. But on the other hand, on other pages. As we had disclosed, the finance business, the investment and the operation, dependent on the segment. The businesses could be categorized differently.

好吧，如果我可以回答你的問題的話。截至目前，對這三個類別、對這些數字的承諾，負責的管理層是首席執行官井上和我本人以及首席營運官高橋，我們兩個人。但另一方面，在其他頁面上。正如我們所揭露的，金融業務、投資和營運都依賴分部。這些企業可以進行不同的分類。

So I'm sorry to perhaps go away from your question. But in particular sector or any market, the 2, three approaches of finance, operation and investment, so I think this is the strength of ORIX that we can approach from these three different perspectives or three aspects of the businesses. So rather than appointing the head of each of these categories, under each of the head of segments, we think that the best thing that could happen is to carry out these category activities. So -- but we should not make it kind of ambiguous. So as we have said at the time of the portfolio management presentation.

很抱歉，我可能無法回答你的問題。但在特定的行業或任何市場中，都有財務、營運和投資這三種方法，所以我認為這是歐力士的優勢，我們可以從這三個不同的角度或業務的三個方面來處理。因此，我們認為，最好的方法是進行這些類別的活動，而不是在每個部門主管下任命每個類別的主管。所以——但我們不該讓它變得含糊不清。正如我們在投資組合管理演示時所說的那樣。

As of now, this finance business, so in the three categories, there is a capital allocation. And also in 10 segments, the capital allocation, we do have managerial accounting perspective. So in other words, the distribution is made. But in a more granular manner, we would like to kind of approach is in particular segment. So we may have 3 different categories.

截至目前，這個金融業務，所以在這三個類別中，有一個資本配置。此外，在資本配置這 10 個部分中，我們確實有管理會計的觀點。換句話說，分配已經完成。但從更細緻的角度來看，我們希望採用特定細分領域的方法。所以我們可能有 3 個不同的類別。

We may have different businesses or different risk return profile. So therefore, finer granularity. With finer granularity, asset and operations are separated so that the capital allocations are made accordingly. And so that we'll be setting the ROE target for each of those businesses. So -- and in -- we kind of balancing the portfolio.

我們可能有不同的業務或不同的風險回報狀況。因此，粒度更細。透過更細粒度的劃分，將資產和營運分開，從而進行相應的資本配置。因此我們將為每個業務設定 ROE 目標。所以 — — 我們正在平衡投資組合。

But we are still in the middle of the way, but we do not intend to take much time in completing this task of ours in the next two years. In the three years midterm plan, we would like to, of course, enhance the sophistication of the portfolio discipline, the management, but how far are we going to kind of disclose to you, the numbers is yet to be decided though. So I hope this answers to your question.

但我們目前仍處於半途，但我們不打算在未來兩年內花太多時間來完成我們的任務。在三年中期計劃中，我們當然希望提高投資組合紀律和管理的複雜程度，但我們將在多大程度上向您披露數字，但尚未確定。我希望這能回答你的問題。

Well, if I may just confirm then, in that case, operation-wise, to the head of segments, so there will be -- there is a quasi-kind of capital that has been allocated to them, and that is already up and running. But incentivized, you are going to be designing this incentive program?

好吧，如果我可以確認一下，那麼，從營運角度來看，對於各個部門的負責人來說，將會有一種準資本分配給他們，而且這種資本已經啟動並運行了。但是激勵方面，您要設計這個激勵計畫嗎？

Yes, exactly. So by segment, although it is up and running already, but that is on a segment-by-segment basis. So there will be different asset classes in each of the segments. So we may have to break it down with much more finer kind of granularity so that we'll be able to manage our portfolio in a much better way. So that will be our approach.

是的，確實如此。因此，按細分而言，雖然它已啟動並運行，但這是基於細分的。因此，每個部分都會有不同的資產類別。因此，我們可能必須以更細的粒度進行分解，以便能夠更好地管理我們的投資組合。這就是我們的方法。

BofA, Tsujino-san.

美國銀行，辻野先生。

Yes, this is Tsujino-san, BofA. Can you hear me?

是的，我是美銀的 Tsujino 先生。你聽得到我嗎？

Yes. We can hear you.

是的。我們能聽到你的聲音。

In fourth quarter, equity-based investment of about JPY10 billion in Asia and also in Europe, some amount. And I'm just imagining that Greenko sales may have been possible until the last minute, and you wanted to revisit this, and you were considering impairment. That is my read on the situation. Greenko didn't work out, but still, you did an impairment process. But the size of the impairment is quite large.

第四季度，在亞洲和歐洲的股權投資約為100億日圓。我只是想像 Greenko 的銷售可能直到最後一刻才得以實現，而您想重新審視這一點，並且正在考慮減損。這是我對這情況的理解。Greenko 沒有成功，但你仍然進行了減損處理。但損害的規模相當大。

Why were you able to do this at this time? And why did you want to do this at this time around and not before? That's my first question. And actually, the mixed firing impairment -- the environment business impairment is also related to this. Considering the current environment, I think [Hibikinada] in Japan.

為什麼這個時候你能做到這一點？為什麼您想在此時做這件事而不是之前做？這是我的第一個問題。實際上，混合燒損——環境業務減損也與此有關。考慮到現在的環境，我想到的是日本的[響灘]。

Well, this timing, I just want to know where the timing of this can be justified. That's my first question. And considering the size of the impairment, if we can exclude the impact of impairment. You could have done JPY380 billion and you gained from exit to a great extent last year. I understand that.

嗯，這個時間，我只是想知道這個時間在哪裡可以得到合理的解釋。這是我的第一個問題。並且考慮到減損的規模，我們是否可以排除減損的影響。您本來可以賺到 3800 億日元，而且去年您從退出中獲得了很大收益。我明白。

And this may not be present in the coming fiscal year. I understand that as well. But also at the same time, this JPY380 billion reflects various types of risks. Now in what kind of situation, would you not be able to achieve JPY380 billion, what would be the conditions or parameters that will realize that kind of scenario?

而這在下一個財政年度可能不會出現。我也明白這一點。但同時，這3,800億日圓也反映出各種風險。現在在什麼樣的情況下，就無法實現3800億日元，實現這種情況的條件或參數是什麼？

Thank you for your question. Impairment, because without saying, has to be implemented according to accounting rules. It's not something that we can control the timing of. So please understand that point to start with. I'm sure that you can imagine various scenarios, but there are specific reasons.

感謝您的提問。減值，因為不用說，必須按照會計規則來實施。這不是我們可以控制時間的事。因此請先理解這一點。我相信您可以想像各種場景，但都有具體的原因。

And of course, no impairment is the best possible scenario. But in the prior fiscal year, we had to process necessary impairment. As we posted impairment, we had to relook at the assumptions that become more conservative. And if you believe that the assumptions are too conservative, maybe the impairment was too big from your perspective? Or if it's the other way around, maybe it's the other way around.

當然，沒有損害是最好的情況。但在上一財政年度，我們必須處理必要的減損。當我們公佈減損時，我們不得不重新審視變得更加保守的假設。如果您認為這些假設太保守，那麼從您的角度來看，損害可能太大了？或者如果情況相反，那麼也許情況就是相反的。

But impairment and gain on sales matching both of them in order to control the profit? Well, I wouldn't say that we never do it, but in terms of divestiture, of course, CEO, Inoue, says that we have to buy low and sell high. And of course, we should sell high at the maximum profit level, if possible. So we do not arbitrarily control the timing of divestiture. And if the outlook for the business is poor and we have to post impairment, that will affect our capital as well, and that will improve ROA as well.

但是減損和銷售收益是否要匹配以控制利潤？好吧，我不會說我們從來沒有這樣做過，但就資產剝離而言，執行長井上當然說，我們必須低買高賣。當然，如果可能的話，我們應該以最高的利潤水平高價出售。因此我們不會任意控制剝離的時間。如果業務前景不佳，我們不得不進行減值，這也會影響我們的資本，同時也提高 ROA。

So rather than doing buyback, flowing the money out of the organization, if we do that instead and post impairment, we can optimize. The capital, which will improve the ROA in the future and improve the quality of capital and quality of asset. So that's another management approach. So as necessary, at the right time according to the accounting rules, we will be posting impairment, and we want to be flexible with the share buyback. So this is a policy that's been long-standing.

因此，如果我們不進行回購，將資金從組織中流出，而是這樣做並發布減值，我們就可以進行最佳化。資本，這將提高未來ROA，改善資本品質和資產品質。這是另一種管理方法。因此，在必要時，我們將根據會計規則在適當的時間發布減值，並且我們希望靈活地進行股票回購。所以這是一項長期存在的政策。

It has not changed. Now with regard to JPY380 billion, I believe you're talking about the forecast for this fiscal year. Under which scenario we will not be able to achieve this. Well, every morning, we wake up to a new set of news. For example, Trump tariff are causing recession in the United States and that may cause global economic downturn, if that becomes a reality, of course, our base profit will be affected by that.

它沒有改變。現在關於 3800 億日元，我相信您說的是本財年的預測。在什麼情況下我們將無法實現這一目標。嗯，每天早上醒來，我們都會聽到一系列新的新聞。例如，川普的關稅導緻美國經濟衰退，並可能導致全球經濟下滑，如果這成為現實，當然，我們的基本利潤將受到影響。

And as I said before, if the sales or the divestiture is faced or if the investment that is planned cannot be executed at that time, things will shift or change. So those are the big factors that I can think of. Inoue-san, do you have anything to add?

正如我之前所說，如果面臨出售或資產剝離，或者計劃中的投資無法在當時執行，那麼情況就會發生轉變或變化。這些就是我能想到的重要因素。井上先生，您還有什麼要補充的嗎？

With regard to how we formulate the plan, I would like to respond to your question, Tsujino-san JPY380 billion forecast. In the prior fiscal year, we applied some conservative measures. So I think the plan is more credible this time around. And in the fiscal year, JPY140 billion or more gain on sales was achieved. Well, that was a plan and we could achieve that based on various assets.

關於我們如何制定計劃，我想回答你的問題，Tsujino先生預測3800億日元。在上一財年，我們採取了一些保守措施。所以我認為這次的計劃更可信。本財年銷售額實現1,400億日圓以上。嗯，這是一個計劃，我們可以根據各種資產實現它。

But of course, when it comes to sales divestiture, we have to think about the buyer situation. We try to distribute that over the 4 quarters, and some of them are already underway. And in the end, we want to realize all of these in a satisfactory manner. But maybe INR 10 billion or so fluctuation may occur because we don't necessarily want to push the sales. Now JPY380 billion, Greenko does not include -- does not -- is not included in this number.

但當然，當談到銷售剝離時，我們必須考慮買家的情況。我們嘗試將其分配到 4 個季度，其中一些季度已經開始。最終，我們希望以令人滿意的方式實現所有這些。但可能出現 100 億印度盧比左右的波動，因為我們不一定想推動銷售。現在3800億日元，Greenko不包括——不——不包括在這個數字裡。

In other words, this base number is quite conservative, but still 0% increase on net profit for this fiscal year. So overall, the plan itself is a little bit more aggressive rather than just conservative. And hopefully, we can give you more information going forward.

也就是說，這個基數比較保守，但本財年淨利仍沒有成長0%。因此總體而言，該計劃本身更具侵略性，而不僅僅是保守。希望我們能為您提供更多資訊。

So this is going to be the last question. So from online Sasaki-san from Nomura Securities.

這是最後一個問題。來自野村證券的佐佐木先生在線。

I am Sasaki from Nomura Securities. I hope you can hear my voice, okay. Would you mind speaking up a little more? I am Sasaki from Nomura Securities. I hope you can hear my voice okay.

我是野村證券的佐佐木。我希望你能聽到我的聲音，好嗎。您介意再多說一點嗎？我是野村證券的佐佐木。我希望你能聽到我的聲音。

So I would like to ask a question about the slide number 6. So this time, so non-efficient businesses may be divested in a much more kind of proactive manner than before. But in the new investment, JPY500 billion to JPY700 billion is the idea that you may have. And if you're going to be asset portfolio and the size of the sales of assets, would that match against this JPY500 billion to JPY700 billion? Or do you have any other size in mind?

所以我想問一個關於第 6 張投影片的問題。因此，這一次，我們可能會以比以前更積極主動的方式剝離效率低下的企業。但在新的投資中，5000億日元到7000億日元是你們的想法。如果您要進行資產組合，並且資產出售的規模與 5000 億日元至 7000 億日元相符嗎？或是您有其他心儀的尺寸嗎？

And also time line-wise, whether it would happen in the first half of this year or the second half? Do you have any idea as to the timing as well? And if at all possible, the risk is heightening in different parts of the world, you had explained. But on the other hand, as to your businesses, as we enter into recession, you do have the strength of being able to enjoy such situation. So in this time of uncertainty, is there any kind of new business opportunities that you foresee?

從時間軸來看，是在今年上半年還是下半年發生？您對時間安排有什麼想法嗎？而且，如果可能的話，世界各地風險都在加劇，您已經解釋過了。但另一方面，對你們的企業來說，當我們進入經濟衰退時，你們確實有能力享受這種情況。那麼在這個不確定的時期，您是否預見任何新的商業機會？

Well, as the first part of the question, Yamamoto is going to respond later. So let me respond to the second part of your question. To begin with, as you had rightly pointed out, you see we have diversified a really diverse area of businesses and countercyclical in the past as well, such as the timing of global financial crisis, IT bubble burst and so on and so forth. So we did manage to post a positive result on our P&L. So -- and I think that is the reason why you had asked the question.

嗯，對於問題的第一部分，山本稍後會做出回答。那麼讓我來回答你問題的第二部分。首先，正如您正確指出的那樣，我們已經實現了業務領域的多元化，並且在過去也實現了逆週期調節，例如全球金融危機、IT 泡沫破裂等等。因此，我們確實在損益表上取得了正面成果。所以——我認為這就是你提出這個問題的原因。

As for the future, it just happens today in the morning, we have made a press release. So Hilco Global, Hilco [Trading], the acquisition, nonbinding MOU has been exchanged and concluded. So what they do is they would carry out the appraisal of real estate asset and also the carry through what is recognized to be liquidation process in United States such as the inventory, for example, they'll be purchasing the remaining inventory and also to liquidate them as well. So therefore, they are truly countercyclical businesses that we are now just about to acquire. So from an organic perspective, at the time when the cycle -- the economic cycle is on the downturn, we would be able to make profit, although it's -- it sounds a little kind of weird, but still, we would very much like to make the most out of our strength.

至於未來，今天早上剛發生，我們已經發布了新聞稿。因此，Hilco Global、Hilco [Trading] 和收購者已交換並達成非約束性諒解備忘錄。因此，他們所做的就是對房地產資產進行評估，並執行美國公認的清算程序，例如庫存，他們將購買剩餘庫存並將其清算。因此，它們是真正的逆週期企業，我們現在即將收購它們。因此，從有機角度來看，當經濟週期處於低迷時期時，我們將能夠獲利，雖然這聽起來有點奇怪，但我們仍然非常希望最大限度地發揮我們的優勢。

So if we can move on to the first part of the question?

那我們可以繼續討論問題的第一部分嗎？

So this is going to be Yamamoto. And allow me to add to what has been said by Takahashi so far. So JPY500 billion to JPY700 billion, so recouping of the investment. So we have not taken into account that part. So in terms of the cash in, that would work out to be an upside.

這就是山本。請容許我對高橋迄今為止所說的內容進行補充。因此，5000億日元到7000億日元，即可收回投資。所以我們沒有考慮到那部分。因此，從現金收入的角度來說，這將是一個好處。

And in other words, from a P&L perspective, even if it was to be flat, this capital release will be proceeded. So therefore, as ROE management, I think we would have more options. And I hope this answers to your question.

換句話說，從損益表的角度來看，即使是持平的，這筆資本釋放仍將繼續進行。因此，作為 ROE 管理，我認為我們會有更多的選擇。我希望這能回答你的問題。

If at all possible, do you have any size in mind as well as the timing or how kind of firm the plan is?

如果可能的話，您是否考慮過規模、時間或計劃的確定性？

Well, in the 3 years, the execution is to be done during the three years period. So it is very different from the usual PE investment, like -- execution, exit in the first half and then exit in the second half. This is not going to be such a case. So we should not refer to it in a snapshot manner. But just I had explained whether there is any room for improvement of the businesses or improvement in the financials.

那麼三年的時間，三年內就要執行。所以它與通常的 PE 投資非常不同，例如——執行，上半年退出，下半年退出。但事實並非如此。所以我們不應該以快照的方式來參考它。但我剛才已經解釋過業務或財務方面是否還有改進的空間。

So in the -- during the 3 years, we will be scrutinizing all the businesses in the pipeline. And so that hopefully, there will be no much of a decline from the current level. But of course, there will be some little fluctuations for the up or down, but even if we have JPY20 billion of a deal, we would not be able to reach to that extent. So please do understand that there will be a kind of an imaginable kind of size. So I think it will be in the range of JPY500 billion, JPY700 billion just as you have asked the question for.

因此，在這三年內，我們將仔細檢視所有正在籌備的業務。因此希望目前的水平不會出現太大的下降。當然，上漲或下跌都會有小幅波動，但即使我們有200億日圓的交易，我們也無法達到這個程度。因此請理解，將會有一種可以想像的尺寸。所以我認為它將在 5000 億日元到 7000 億日元之間，正如您所問的那樣。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

So we have just gone over the time that was scheduled to conclude this session. I'd like to hand over to Takahashi to give us the closing remarks.

因此，我們剛剛超過了預定結束本次會議的時間。我想把時間交給高橋給我們做最後發言。

Thank you very much for joining us today. I'm sure that there are still some questions left, but we have introduced a strategy and the measures today. And by implementing them on a quarterly basis, we would be looking forward to providing you with the progress, so that you can monitor the progress, and we appreciate your kind support -- continued support. Thank you very much.

非常感謝您今天加入我們。我相信還有一些問題，但是我們今天已經推出了策略和措施。透過每季實施這些措施，我們期待向您提供進展情況，以便您可以監控進展情況，我們感謝您的支持——持續的支持。非常感謝。

That concludes the earnings call for the fiscal year ending March 2025. Thank you very much for staying until the end of this program. Thank you, and goodbye.

以上就是 2025 年 3 月結束的財政年度收益電話會議。非常感謝大家堅持到節目結束。謝謝，再見。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中的英文陳述是由現場翻譯人員宣讀的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。