伊塔烏聯合銀行 (ITUB) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello. Good morning, everyone. My name is Gustavo and it's a pleasure to have you with us for our second quarter of 2025 earnings video conference. As always, Milton will soon walk you through our performance. And afterwards, we'll open the floor for a Q&A session where analysts and investors will be able to interact with us directly.

你好。大家早安。我叫古斯塔沃 (Gustavo)，很高興您能參加我們的 2025 年第二季財報視訊會議。像往常一樣，米爾頓很快就會帶您了解我們的表演。之後，我們將開放問答環節，分析師和投資者可以直接與我們互動。

But before handing over to Milton, I'd like to share a few instructions to help you make the most of today's event. For those accessing this video conference via our website, there are three audio options available on your screen, the entire content in Portuguese, the entire content in English or the original audio.

但在將時間交給米爾頓之前，我想分享一些指示，以幫助您充分利用今天的活動。對於透過我們的網站訪問此視訊會議的用戶，螢幕上有三種音訊選項：全部內容為葡萄牙語、全部內容為英語或原始音訊。

The first two options offer simultaneous translation. To select your preferred option, simply click on the flag icon in the upper left corner of your screen. (Operator Instructions). Today's presentation is available for download on the hot side also, as always, on our Investor Relations website.

前兩個選項提供同聲傳譯。要選擇您喜歡的選項，只需點擊螢幕左上角的旗幟圖示。（操作員指令）。像往常一樣，今天的簡報也可以在我們的投資者關係網站上的熱門部分下載。

With that, I'll now hand over to Milton, and I'll see you again shortly for the Q&A session. Milton, over to you.

現在，我將把時間交給米爾頓，我們很快就會在問答環節再次見面。米爾頓，交給你了。

Good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here with you once again to discuss our second quarter 2025 results. Today, I will present an executive overview focused on our results and provide a brief update on our guidance. I will also share with you an update on the One Itau initiative, as I promised on our last quarter earnings video call. I will comment on our migration agenda and on the bank's digital acceleration process.

大家早安。很高興能再次與大家討論我們 2025 年第二季的業績。今天，我將重點介紹我們的業績並簡要介紹我們的指導意見。我還將與大家分享有關 One Itau 計劃的最新進展，正如我在上個季度的收益視訊電話會議上所承諾的那樣。我將對我們的遷移議程和銀行的數位化加速進程發表評論。

Finally, I will share some key figures and wrap up with an invitation to all of you. Let's move on to the numbers. As you can see, we're presenting the same key indicators as always. Recurring managerial net income, recurring managerial return on equity, NII with clients, NIM, NPL over 90 days and common equity Tier 1 ratio. Starting with our results.

最後，我將分享一些關鍵數據，並向大家發出邀請。讓我們繼續討論數字。如您所見，我們呈現的關鍵指標與往常一樣。經常性管理淨收入、經常性管理股本報酬率、客戶淨利息收入、淨利差、90 天不良貸款及普通股一級資本比率。從我們的結果開始。

This quarter, we delivered net income of BRL11.5 billion, representing a 3.4% increase over the first quarter and a 14.3% increase year-over-year. These are very strong results stemming from a solid performance base established over recent years. As a result, our consolidated ROE reached 23.3%, expanding both quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year. In Brazil, ROE was 24.4%, a robust return also showing expansion over both comparative periods.

本季度，我們實現淨收入115億巴西雷亞爾，較第一季成長3.4%，較去年同期成長14.3%。這些非常強勁的業績源自於近年來建立的堅實業績基礎。因此，我們的合併 ROE 達到 23.3%，環比和年比均有所增長。巴西的 ROE 為 24.4%，回報率強勁，且在兩個比較期間內均有所擴張。

As always, I would like to note that if we were operating with a capital ratio of 11.5%, which is roughly in line with market practice and our Board's approved risk appetite. Our consolidated ROE would be 24.7% and in Brazil, the most comparable figure would be an ROE of 26.1%. This is detailed in the slide footnote.

像往常一樣，我想指出的是，如果我們的資本比率為 11.5%，這大致符合市場慣例和董事會批准的風險偏好。我們的合併 ROE 為 24.7%，而在巴西，最具可比性的數字是 ROE 26.1%。幻燈片腳註中有詳細說明。

How did we achieve this result? First, it was a very strong quarter for NII with clients with a 3.1% increase over the previous quarter and 15.4% growth year-over-year. I will provide more details on NII shortly. NIM also expanded significantly, both sequentially and year-over-year, reaching 9.2% on a consolidated basis and 10% in Brazil.

我們是如何達成這項成果的？首先，本季 NII 表現非常強勁，客戶數量較上一季成長 3.1%，較去年同期成長 15.4%。我將很快提供有關 NII 的更多詳細資訊。NIM 也較上季和年比均大幅擴大，合併後達 9.2%，巴西達 10%。

We had not reached double-digit NIM in Brazil since before the COVID pandemic, in other words, since 2019, underscoring a significant margin recovery for the bank's balance sheet over these years. Delinquency rates remained well behaved. Consolidated NPL over 90 days stood at 1.9% and reached 2.0% in Brazil. This indicator is stable quarter-over-quarter and is down year-over-year indicating that despite some first quarter pressure in short-term delinquencies, we performed very well the second quarter in long-term overdue loans, a very positive development for the portfolio.

自新冠疫情爆發之前，也就是 2019 年以來，我們在巴西的淨利差從未達到過兩位數，這凸顯了該銀行資產負債表利潤率這些年來的顯著回升。拖欠率保持良好狀態。90天綜合不良貸款率為1.9%，巴西達2.0%。該指標環比保持穩定，同比有所下降，表明儘管第一季短期拖欠貸款面臨一定壓力，但第二季長期逾期貸款表現良好，這對投資組合來說是一個非常積極的發展。

The common equity tier ratio posted another solid increase, up 50 basis points quarter-over-quarter already adjusted for IOC provisions and some risk-weighted asset effects, but that were immaterial. Thus, we see a 50 basis points expansion in common equity quarter-over-quarter and flat year-over-year. This is excellent news for capital generation. And it shows our ability to generate capital organically, another very positive sign.

普通股股權級比率再次穩步上升，環比上升 50 個基點，並根據 IOC 撥備和一些風險加權資產效應進行了調整，但這些並不重要。因此，我們預計普通股本季將季增 50 個基點，與去年同期持平。這對資本創造來說是個好消息。這表明我們有能力有機地創造資本，這是另一個非常積極的信號。

Moving on to the loan portfolio. I want to highlight that the individual loan book grew 8.0% year-over-year and 0.7% in the quarter with a notable 1.6% quarterly increase in credit card loans. More important than total credit card loan book growth is the finance credit card portfolio growth, which I will address specifically.

繼續討論貸款組合。我想強調的是，個人貸款餘額年增 8.0%，本季成長 0.7%，其中信用卡貸款本季顯著成長 1.6%。比信用卡貸款總額成長更重要的是金融信用卡組合的成長，我將具體討論這一點。

Regarding personal loans, it's crucial to break down this number because it includes products like unsecured credit lines and overdrafts as well as debt renegotiation products. Breaking it down is key to understanding the quality of growth and how each credit line performed in the quarter.

對於個人貸款，細分這個數字至關重要，因為它包括無擔保信用額度和透支以及債務重新協商產品等產品。將其分解是了解成長品質以及每個信貸額度在本季度的表現的關鍵。

I will provide more detail on this shortly. Payroll loans underperformed this quarter due to multiple factors. The payroll loans for INSS beneficiaries dynamic was impacted by both the cap on interest rates and funding as well as by a process change in originations. Private payroll loans are advancing gradually due to ongoing product process improvement. I'm positive that there will be questions on this in the Q&A session.

我很快將提供更多有關此問題的詳細資訊。由於多種因素，本季薪資貸款表現不佳。INSS 受益人的薪資貸款動態受到利率和資金上限以及發放流程變化的影響。隨著產品流程的不斷改進，私人薪資貸款正在逐步推進。我確信在問答環節中會有關於此的問題。

In auto loans, risk management is key, and the portfolio continues to perform very well. Both credit card and auto loan portfolios are outperforming market benchmarks for the national financial system. Effective risk management discipline is essential here. The mortgage loan book grew 2.1% in the quarter and 17.2% year-over-year, further demonstrating our capacity to expand such an important credit line for our clients. The SMEs loan portfolio grew 0.8% in the quarter.

在汽車貸款中，風險管理是關鍵，投資組合繼續表現良好。信用卡和汽車貸款組合的表現均優於國家金融體系的市場基準。有效的風險管理紀律在這裡至關重要。本季抵押貸款金額成長 2.1%，年增 17.2%，進一步證明了我們有能力為客戶擴大如此重要的信貸額度。本季中小企業貸款組合成長了 0.8%。

I will provide more details on the quarter growth and on the performance of what we classify as small companies in a little while. The large companies' portfolio grew 1.4% in the quarter and 6.4% year-over-year. It is worth noting that the loan book in Brazil grew 1.0%, while in Latin America, the portfolio declined 2.3%, a clear effect of the appreciation of the Brazilian real against other currencies, the total credit portfolio grew 0.4% in the quarter and excluding the FX impact, it would have grown 1.3%.

稍後我將提供有關季度成長和我們歸類為小公司的業績的更多詳細資訊。大型公司的投資組合本季成長了 1.4%，年增了 6.4%。值得注意的是，巴西的貸款總額增加了 1.0%，而拉丁美洲的貸款總額下降了 2.3%，這顯然是巴西雷亞爾兌其他貨幣升值的影響，本季度信貸總額增長了 0.4%，如果不考慮外匯影響，則增長了 1.3%。

For large companies, the 1.4% quarterly growth would have been 2.3% excluding the FX impact. This breakdown provides an insight into the impact of FX fluctuations. In previous quarters, we have noticed the impact of the Brazilian real depreciation. However, this quarter, the Brazil real appreciated versus other currencies. Those are the main messages.

對於大公司而言，1.4%的季度成長率若不計入外匯影響則應為2.3%。透過這一細分，我們可以深入了解外匯波動的影響。在前幾個季度，我們已經注意到巴西雷亞爾貶值的影響。不過，本季巴西雷亞爾兌其他貨幣升值。這些就是主要資訊。

Let me provide further details on the loan book performance. The finance credit card portfolio grew 5.4% in the quarter and 6.1% year-over-year. It's worth highlighting that 100% of annual growth came from the Uniclass and Personnalite segments. There are several reasons for this, some of which I will detail later.

讓我提供有關貸款帳簿表現的更多詳細資訊。本季金融信用卡組合成長 5.4%，年增 6.1%。值得強調的是，100% 的年度成長來自 Uniclass 和 Personnalite 部門。造成這種情況的原因有很多，其中一些我將在後面詳細說明。

But primarily, it's about new products and solutions in cards that have supported the expansion in the finance credit card lines. For personal loans, breaking down the figures is critical as I've said. Unsecured credit portfolio, including installments and overdrafts, posted a 1.1% quarterly increase and 12.1% yearly growth and 83% of this growth comes from Uniclass and Personnalite segments.

但最主要的是，它是關於支援金融信用卡產品線擴張的卡類新產品和解決方案。對於個人貸款，正如我所說，分解數字至關重要。包括分期付款和透支在內的無擔保信貸組合季度增長 1.1%，年增長 12.1%，其中 83% 的增長來自 Uniclass 和 Personnalite 部門。

Mid- and high-income clients with great credit quality. Debt composition in terms of an analogy would be the bad cholesterol while unsecured credit would be the good cholesterol. Debt composition or the bad cholesterol posted a 3.8% reduction in the quarter and a 12.6% annual drop. Thus, tracking this breakdown is essential to understanding the personal loan portfolio dynamic.

信用品質優良的中高收入客戶。打個比方，債務構成就是壞膽固醇，而無擔保信貸就是好膽固醇。債務組成或壞膽固醇在本季下降了 3.8%，年減了 12.6%。因此，追蹤這種細目對於了解個人貸款組合動態至關重要。

Moving on to SMEs. We see that small businesses grew 5.4% in the quarter. Government program volumes grew 21.7% in the quarter with a very sound credit quality. Over recent months, we've become highly skilled in operating these programs generating positive results and expanding net financial margin for the segment, a very positive outcome as well.

轉向中小企業。我們發現本季小型企業成長了 5.4%。本季政府專案規模成長了 21.7%，信貸品質非常良好。最近幾個月，我們在操作這些項目方面已經非常熟練，產生了積極的成果，並擴大了該部門的淨財務利潤，這也是一個非常積極的結果。

Now let's talk about NII and NIM. First, focusing on NII, then on annualized average margins. In client NII, we exclude the working capital effect which was BRL4 billion last quarter and BRL3.8 billion this quarter. I would like to remind you that last quarter, there was a significant additional dividend distributions, which reduced the shareholders' equity and explains the difference in working capital margin. What's most important is that all core margin lines contributed positively.

現在我們來談談NII和NIM。首先關注NII，然後關注年化平均利潤率。在客戶 NII 中，我們排除了上季度 40 億巴西雷亞爾和本季 38 億巴西雷亞爾的營運資本效應。我想提醒您，上個季度，有一次大量的額外股息分配，這減少了股東權益並解釋了營運資本利潤率的差異。最重要的是，所有核心利潤線都做出了積極貢獻。

The average volume contributed by BRL200 million, product mix and segment mix added another BRL300 million. Spreads and liability margins are posting very strong results with our investment franchise delivering extraordinary results. The calendar effect of one additional day also contributed positively. And Latin America and others added BRL100 million in the quarter. This resulted in core margin expanding 4.5% in the quarter or BRL1.1 billion, a very positive performance.

平均銷量貢獻了 2 億雷亞爾，產品組合和細分市場組合又貢獻了 3 億雷亞爾。我們的投資特許經營權取得了非凡的業績，利差和負債保證金也取得了非常強勁的業績。額外一天的日曆效應也產生了正面的影響。拉丁美洲和其他地區本季增加了 1 億雷亞爾。這使得本季核心利潤率成長 4.5% 或 11 億巴西雷亞爾，表現非常積極。

Moving on to NIM. The first message is that NIM continues to expand sequentially and reaching 9.2% this quarter, the highest in the historic series. As we always say, it's important to analyze risk-adjusted NIM since the hard figure may be misleading. On a risk-adjusted basis, NIM reached 6.3%, a significant expansion in the quarter. In Brazil, NIM hit double digits this quarter, a level we've not seen for many quarters.

繼續討論 NIM。第一個訊息是，NIM繼續環比擴大，本季達到9.2%，為歷史最高水準。正如我們常說的那樣，分析風險調整後的淨利差非常重要，因為硬數據可能會產生誤導。經風險調整後，淨利差達 6.3%，本季大幅擴張。在巴西，本季淨利息收益率達到兩位數，這是我們多個季度以來未曾見過的水平。

Risk-adjusted NIM was also the best in the series at 6.9%, showing that we've managed to expand margins while maintaining strong credit quality. In summary, net financial margin this quarter posted the strongest and most solid expansion to date. Moving on to market NII. Let me take a moment to focus on this slide. We posted very strong results in the quarter, exceeding our expectations.

風險調整後的淨利差也達到 6.9%，是該系列中最好的，這表明我們在保持強勁信貸品質的同時成功擴大了利潤率。綜上所述，本季淨財務利潤率實現了迄今為止最強勁、最穩健的成長。轉向市場 NII。請容許我花一點時間來關注這張投影片。我們本季的業績非常強勁，超出了我們的預期。

It's always challenging to forecast trading results, which were outstanding this quarter and contributed to a very solid overall outcome. On the other hand, the cost for hedging the capital index, which is easier to forecast, is expected to increase in the coming quarters. As we mentioned last quarter, this is the impact of the interest rate gap.

預測交易結果總是很有挑戰性的，但本季的交易結果非常出色，為整體績效的穩健做出了貢獻。另一方面，更容易預測的資本指數的對沖成本預計在未來幾季會增加。正如我們上個季度提到的，這是利差的影響。

The 2025 guidance for NII with the market is a range between BRL1 billion and BRL3 billion. Thus, BRL2 billion is the midpoint of the guidance. In the first half of the year, NII with the market reached BRL1.8 billion. It is still hard to forecast market NII performance, especially in trading but we've seen very positive results so far, and we're reaffirming our guidance as the range fits our best estimates.

2025 年市場對 NII 的指導範圍為 10 億雷亞爾至 30 億雷亞爾。因此，20億巴西雷亞爾是該指引金額的中間值。上半年，市場NII達到18億雷亞爾。預測市場 NII 表現仍然很困難，尤其是在交易方面，但到目前為止我們已經看到了非常積極的結果，並且我們重申我們的指導，因為該範圍符合我們的最佳估計。

If there are any updates, we will discuss it again, and I will provide more details when addressing the guidance framework later on this presentation. The cost for hedging the capital index is expected to continue expanding over the coming quarters.

如果有任何更新，我們將再次討論，並且我將在稍後的演示中討論指導框架時提供更多細節。預計未來幾季對沖資本指數的成本將繼續擴大。

Moving on to service fee income, I would like to highlight a few lines. Card issuance revenues are growing 4.5% year-over-year with TPV performing well, directly impacting interchange revenue. In the asset management business, I want to emphasize the growth in revenues from BRL1.7 billion to BRL1.9 billion. We had a very strong and solid performance fee, significantly better than last year leading to a 17.5% annual increase, a sound result.

談到服務費收入，我想強調幾點。發卡營收年增 4.5%，TPV 表現良好，直接影響交換收入。在資產管理業務方面，我想強調的是營收從 17 億雷亞爾成長到 19 億雷亞爾。我們的績效費用非常強勁且穩健，明顯優於去年，年增長率達到 17.5%，這是一個不錯的結果。

In Advisory & Brokerage Services, revenues declined both quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year, mainly explained by DCM activities. Last year, in the same quarter, we experienced the best DCM quarter in the bank's history. Although we maintain significant market share and a strong position in the rankings due to lower activity and fewer transactions, we naturally captured less revenue.

在諮詢和經紀服務方面，收入環比和年比均有所下降，主要原因是 DCM 活動。去年同一季度，我們經歷了銀行歷史上最好的 DCM 季度。雖然由於活動減少、交易減少，我們仍保持了相當大的市場份額和排名優勢，但我們的收入自然也減少了。

Another noteworthy line is the insurance, pension and capitalization businesses, which grew 8.8% in the quarter and 17.3% year-over-year. This shows that our operation has delivered very solid results, more than doubled earnings over recent years and is keeping growth at a robust pace.

另一個值得注意的業務是保險、退休金和資本化業務，本季成長 8.8%，年增 17.3%。這顯示我們的營運取得了非常穩健的業績，近年來獲利成長了一倍多，並保持著強勁的成長速度。

I will provide further details on this shortly. In the asset management business, a positive highlight is the net inflow of BRL47.5 billion in the second quarter of 2025, a 30% increase compared to the second quarter of 2024, an outstanding result. Itau Asset was the leading asset manager in terms of performance fees this quarter. We are growing not only through distribution capacity, but also through value creation, delivering sound performance to our clients and improving performance fees, a very robust outcome.

我將很快提供關於此事的更多詳細資訊。資產管理業務方面，一個正面的亮點是2025年第二季淨流入475億雷亞爾，較2024年第二季成長30%，成績斐然。Itau Asset 是本季績效費方面領先的資產管理公司。我們的成長不僅體現在分銷能力上，也體現在價值創造上，為客戶提供良好的服務，提高績效費用，這是一個非常強勁的成果。

Moving next to insurance. Earned premiums are up 14.6% year-over-year, with significant expansion in the quarter. Recurring insurance income grew 7.7% in the quarter and 25.2% year-over-year. Our core insurance operation, bancassurance continues to expand at a very favorable pace with growth concentrated mainly in personal accident and credit insurance, underscoring the recurring and solid nature of these results.

接下來是保險。已賺保費年增 14.6%，本季大幅擴張。本季經常性保險收入成長 7.7%，年增 25.2%。我們的核心保險業務－銀行保險持續以非常有利的速度擴張，成長主要集中在人身意外險和信用險，凸顯了這些業績的持續性和穩健性。

Moving on to credit quality. I will first address short-term delinquency followed by long-term delinquency. Short-term delinquency indicators are very positive, showing delinquency is well controlled. Overall NPL 15 to 90 days posted a slight 10 basis points decrease, and so did the indicator for the Brazilian operation. In Latin America, we had only isolated cases impacting the quarter with very low volatility and no further concerns.

繼續討論信用品質。我將首先討論短期違法行為，然後再討論長期違法行為。短期違約指標非常積極，顯示違約現象得到良好控制。15 至 90 天的整體不良貸款略有下降，為 10 個基點，巴西業務的指標也略有下降。在拉丁美洲，我們只遇到了一些個別案例，這些案例對本季產生了影響，波動性非常低，無需擔心。

Alongside, we have the indicator including corporate securities in compliance with Resolution 4 966, which we will continue to monitor closely. The chart contains extensive information, but this is due to the limited historical data available under the new regulation. I expect that within another quarter, we will be able to provide more comprehensive insight monitoring.

此外，我們還有符合第 4966 號決議的公司證券指標，我們將繼續密切監測。該圖表包含大量信息，但這是由於新法規下可用的歷史數據有限。我預計，在接下來的一個季度內，我們將能夠提供更全面的洞察監控。

The direction remains consistent with the main change being in the information level, particularly in Brazil, where corporate securities are more relevant. The short-term delinquency ratio for individuals in Brazil dropped 10 basis points quarter-over-quarter and there is no corporate securities effect in this portfolio.

方向與資訊層面的主要變化保持一致，特別是在巴西，公司證券更為重要。巴西個人短期拖欠率較上月下降10個基點，且該投資組合中沒有公司證券效應。

For SMEs, the credit quality remains healthy and NPL was flat in the quarter at 1.4%, considering the credit-only portfolio and flat at 1.2% when adding corporate securities to the credit portfolio. So the trend is the same, but the absolute level changes. I would like to remind you of some information I shared last quarter.

對於中小企業而言，信貸品質依然健康，僅考慮信貸組合，本季不良貸款率持平於 1.4%；如果將公司證券添加到信貸組合中，則不良貸款率持平於 1.2%。因此趨勢是一樣的，但絕對水平發生了變化。我想提醒您我上個季度分享的一些資訊。

A significant portion of the growth in the SMEs portfolio came from government-sponsored products. Most of this portfolio is currently under a grace period, which benefits the denominator with the loan portfolio increase, while the numerator is not impacted by the amount of overdue payments since under the grace period, no installments are due yet resulting in a temporary indicator benefit.

中小企業投資組合的成長很大一部分來自政府支持的產品。目前，該組合中的大部分都處於寬限期，貸款組合增加，分母從中受益，而分子不受逾期付款金額的影響，因為在寬限期內，尚無分期付款到期，從而產生暫時的指標收益。

We expect this to normalize over the coming quarters in both short- and long-term overdue loans with no cause for concern. Therefore, a slight uptick is expected for the SMEs portfolio which shows remarkable credit quality and no credit risk earnings. We have reaffirmed the cost of credit guidance. The main reason why we are highlighting the expectation of NPL growth is to be very transparent regarding our expectations going forward.

我們預計，未來幾季短期和長期逾期貸款的情況都將正常化，無需擔心。因此，預計信貸品質優異、無信貸風險收益的中小企業投資組合將略有上升。我們重申了信貸成本指引。我們強調不良貸款成長預期的主要原因是為了讓我們對未來的預期非常透明。

Analyzing long-term credit quality, the news is equally positive with very well controlled indicators. We did not experience significant rollovers from the first to the second quarter which is typically seasonal. In Brazil, despite a slight increase in NPL creation, loan portfolio growth resulted in stable indicators, which is very positive. For SMEs, the earlier comment regarding gradual normalization over the coming quarters applies. Short-term overdue loans mature, they will eventually impact long-term delinquency ratio as grace periods expire.

分析長期信貸質量，消息同樣積極，指標控制得非常好。從第一季到第二季度，我們並沒有經歷典型的季節性的重大轉變。在巴西，儘管不良貸款略有增加，但貸款組合成長導致指標穩定，這是非常積極的。對於中小企業來說，先前關於未來幾季逐步正常化的評論是適用的。短期逾期貸款到期後，隨著寬限期的結束，最終將影響長期拖欠率。

Another credit portfolio indicator that we are monitoring is the loan book by stage and coverage by stage for both stages two and three. In stage two, there are no material concerns as movements largely reflect the mechanical rollover from short-term overdue loans in line with expectations and without any significant issues in either loan portfolio or coverage. Stage two is expected to slightly decline this quarter. This mechanical rollover impacted stage three for individuals. There is a dual effect.

我們正在監控的另一個信貸組合指標是第二階段和第三階段的分階段貸款帳簿和分階段覆蓋率。在第二階段，不存在重大擔憂，因為變動很大程度上反映了短期逾期貸款的機械展期，符合預期，且貸款組合或覆蓋範圍均不存在任何重大問題。預計本季第二階段將略有下降。這次機械翻滾對個人的影響已進入第三階段。有雙重效果。

The coverage ratio drops in stage three for individuals since loans recently entered into stage three tend to be provisioned at a slightly lower rate compared to those exiting it via write-off even though provision is made by expected lifetime loss. As there were more entries than exits in this stage, coverage mathematically drops.

個人貸款的覆蓋率在第三階段有所下降，因為儘管撥備是根據預期終身損失作出的，但與透過核銷退出的貸款相比，最近進入第三階段的貸款的撥備率往往略低。由於此階段的進入次數多於退出次數，因此覆蓋率在數學上會下降。

For the large companies, the opposite trend was posted. Coverage increased because we sold the credit portfolio in stage three at a lower-than-average provisioning ratio due to its strong collaterals. This sale removed the loan with lower provisions from the portfolio, improving overall coverage as the remaining loans have higher average provisions due to their credit risk profile.

對大公司來說，趨勢卻相反。由於我們在第三階段出售了信貸組合，由於其抵押品強勁，撥備率低於平均水平，因此覆蓋率有所提高。此次出售從投資組合中移除了撥備較低的貸款，提高了整體覆蓋率，因為剩餘貸款因其信用風險狀況而具有更高的平均撥備。

As a result, we have seen a significant reduction in restructured loan portfolios. We continue to provide ample transparency regarding renegotiated and restructured portfolios. This is a relevant figure to monitor as it demonstrates our progress and ongoing evolution. There was a BRL1.1 billion reduction in the quarter driven by both restructured and renegotiated portfolios.

結果，我們看到重組貸款組合大幅減少。我們將繼續為重新談判和重組的投資組合提供充分的透明度。這是一個值得監控的相關數字，因為它顯示了我們的進步和持續的發展。由於投資組合重組和重新談判，本季投資減少了 11 億巴西雷亞爾。

Credit and securities renegotiated portfolio decreased from BRL40.1 billion to BRL38.8 billion posting a healthy trend in both renegotiated and restructured categories. The combined effect of all these indicators is very well behaved cost of credit with only a slight nominal increase as the loan portfolio grows. We should analyze the cost of credit growth compared with the loan book growth.

信貸和證券重新談判投資組合從 401 億雷亞爾減少至 388 億雷亞爾，重新談判和重組類別均呈現健康趨勢。所有這些指標的綜合效應是信貸成本表現良好，隨著貸款組合的增長，僅有輕微的名目增長。我們應該分析信貸成長與貸款帳簿成長的成本。

The annualized cost of credit over the loan portfolio remained flat at 2.7% which is a very healthy portfolio with an indicator far below historical average. All in all, we are growing the loan portfolio with high-quality assets, resulting in a robust credit performance across all segments, a highly positive outcome.

貸款組合的年化信貸成本保持在 2.7% 的水平，這是一個非常健康的組合，指標遠低於歷史平均水平。總而言之，我們正在透過優質資產擴大貸款組合，從而使所有部門的信貸表現強勁，這是一個非常積極的結果。

Regarding noninterest expenses, we posted an 8.7% increase in Brazil when comparing the first half of 2025 to the first half of 2024 and a 9.2% increase on a yearly basis. Personnel and transactional expenses remain very well controlled lines. The bank continues to deliver solid and growing results which impacts many of these lines, whether through higher transaction volumes or an increase in variable compensation.

關於非利息支出，與 2024 年上半年相比，2025 年上半年我們在巴西的非利息支出成長了 8.7%，年增了 9.2%。人員和交易費用仍然得到很好的控制。該銀行繼續提供穩健且不斷增長的業績，無論是透過更高的交易量還是增加浮動薪酬，都對許多業務線產生了影響。

In terms of technology expenses, we continue to invest heavily in business technology, products and solutions to meet client needs and make the bank increasingly efficient and modern, this has been the prevailing trend. And most importantly, all of this was delivered 100% within budget, meaning every initiative was fully aligned with our financial planning.

在科技支出方面，我們持續大力投資業務技術、產品和解決方案，以滿足客戶需求，使銀行日益高效和現代化，這已成為普遍趨勢。最重要的是，所有這一切都是在預算之內 100% 實現的，這意味著每項計劃都完全符合我們的財務規劃。

This underscores our ability to forecast and manage the bank's cost structure with discipline and precision. When we look at the half year comparisons, we observe another positive evolution in our efficiency ratio which declined to 36.4% in Brazil in the first half of 2025 compared to 37.0% in the first half of 2024.

這凸顯了我們嚴謹、精確地預測和管理銀行成本結構的能力。當我們查看半年比較時，我們發現我們的效率比率再次出現了積極變化，即在巴西，2025 年上半年的效率比率從 2024 年上半年的 37.0% 下降至 36.4%。

On a consolidated basis, the ratio was 38.5% in the first half of 2024 and now stands at 38.4%. This represents another relevant improvement in our efficiency levels, demonstrating that the tech CapEx continues to translate into efficiency gains and solid and sustainable results.

以合併口徑計算，2024 年上半年比例為 38.5%，目前為 38.4%。這顯示我們的效率水準又一次得到了相應的提升，顯示技術資本支出持續轉化為效率的提升和穩健、可持續的成果。

Moving on to capital, net income, already adjusted for the full provision of interest on equity, which alone would imply a payout ratio of approximately 32%, generated a capital increase of 60 basis points in the quarter. Risk-weighted assets had an immaterial impact during the period. So we expanded our CET1 ratio to 13.1%, with AT1 at 1.5%, although our AT1 is structurally higher, Basel regulations cap our AT1 contribution at 1.5%.

談到資本，淨收入已經根據股權利息的全部準備金進行了調整，僅此一項就意味著約 32% 的派息率，本季度產生了 60 個基點的資本增長。風險加權資產在此期間的影響並不重大。因此，我們將 CET1 比率擴大至 13.1%，AT1 比率為 1.5%，儘管我們的 AT1 在結構上較高，但巴塞爾法規將我們的 AT1 貢獻限制在 1.5%。

We just announced the call option on two perpetual foreign currency debt instruments totaling approximately USD1.5 billion and two tranches of USD750 million each alongside our second quarter '25 earnings release yesterday. Due to this call option, our AT1 ratio should converge to approximately 1.3%, which remains fully aligned with our capital appetite.

我們昨天剛發布了 2025 年第二季的收益報告，同時宣布了兩種永久性外幣債務工具的看漲期權，總額約為 15 億美元，以及兩筆各 7.5 億美元的款項。由於此買權，我們的 AT1 比率應收斂至約 1.3%，這與我們的資本需求完全一致。

This was feasible because of our liability management. We issued approximately BRL5 billion in perpetual debt in the local market, which enabled us to exercise the call option on these instruments and repurchase them. Again, the notice to the market on this was released yesterday.

由於我們的責任管理，這是可行的。我們在當地市場發行了約 50 億巴西雷亞爾的永久債務，這使我們能夠行使這些工具的看漲期權並回購它們。再次，有關此事的市場通知已於昨天發布。

Moving on to our 2025 guidance. We are reaffirming our expectation for credit portfolio growth, NII with the market, cost of credit, fee income growth and noninterest expense growth. However, we are updating our expectations for NII with clients' growth since we are posting stronger growth than originally expected. Accordingly, the range previously said was between 7.5% and 11.5% and now has been updated to between 11% and 14%. The lower end of the new guidance is nearly equivalent to the top end of the previous range.

繼續我們的 2025 年指導。我們重申對信貸組合成長、市場NII、信貸成本、費用收入成長和非利息支出成長的預期。然而，由於我們公佈的成長比最初預期的要強勁，因此我們正在根據客戶的成長更新對 NII 的預期。因此，先前所說的範圍是7.5%至11.5%之間，現在已經更新為11%至14%之間。新指導的下限幾乎相當於先前範圍的上限。

This is a very positive development for NII with clients. On the other hand, given the higher earnings, the benefit from interest on capital is diluted, resulting in an increase in the bank's effective tax rate. In addition to that, we've been posting a higher share of earnings coming from banking operations versus nonfinancial entities.

對於 NII 與客戶而言，這是一個非常積極的發展。另一方面，由於收益增加，資本利息收益被稀釋，導致銀行有效稅率上升。除此之外，我們來自銀行業務的收益份額比來自非金融實體的收益份額更高。

Together, these effects lead to a slight upward revision in our effective tax rate. From the previous range between 27% and 29% to a new range between 28.5% and 30.5%. These are the two updates we are making to the 2025 guidance this quarter.

綜合起來，這些影響導致我們的有效稅率略有調高。從先前的27%至29%的範圍上升至28.5%至30.5%之間的新範圍。這是我們本季對 2025 年指引所做的兩項更新。

Last quarter, many of you asked me about the performance of One Itau and whether we had any data to share. As I've mentioned before, we are in the midst of a critical migration phase, and our focus remains on executing this transition carefully ensuring a smooth and client-centric experience.

上個季度，很多人問我有關 One Itau 的表現以及我們是否有任何數據可以分享。正如我之前提到的，我們正處於關鍵的遷移階段，我們的重點仍然是謹慎執行這項過渡，以確保順暢且以客戶為中心的體驗。

We now have solid data to share, not only from the One Itau initiative, but also from our broader digital acceleration agenda, including product delivery, solution development and clients' problems resolution. Over 10 million clients have already migrated to the One Itau platform. with an NPS of 80 points and a conversion rate of 99.3%, well above expectations.

我們現在擁有可靠的數據可供分享，不僅來自「One Itau」計劃，還來自我們更廣泛的數位加速議程，包括產品交付、解決方案開發和客戶問題解決。已有超過 1,000 萬名客戶遷移到 One Itau 平台，NPS 為 80 點，轉換率為 99.3%，遠高於預期。

Notably, 54% of these clients already hold three or more products with the bank reflecting our successful transition from a monoline offering to a full bank proposition. This shift has led to a 32% increase in engagement among this client base as they adopted the full bank offering. These are very encouraging results. We are enhancing the user experience in the super app and improving results.

值得注意的是，其中 54% 的客戶已在該銀行持有三種或更多種產品，這反映了我們已成功從單一業務轉型為全面銀行業務。由於客戶採用了銀行的全面服務，這一轉變使得客戶群的參與度提高了 32%。這些都是非常令人鼓舞的成果。我們正在增強超級應用程式的使用者體驗並改善結果。

Over the past 18 months, we have launched 19 key products and posted a 25% increase in super app usage per client. This has significantly boosted frequency, activation and engagement across our digital channels. For example, our recently launched digital savings feature called [Cofrino] or Piggybank, reached a balance of BRL13 billion in less than 90 days with an NPS of 93 points. It's important to highlight that most of these funds came from a deeper client relationship.

在過去的 18 個月中，我們推出了 19 款關鍵產品，每位客戶的超級應用程式使用量增加了 25%。這顯著提高了我們數位管道的頻率、激活度和參與度。例如，我們最近推出的數位儲蓄功能 [Cofrino] 或 Piggybank，在不到 90 天的時間內就達到了 130 億巴西雷亞爾的餘額，NPS 為 93 點。值得強調的是，這些資金大部分來自更深層的客戶關係。

Our expense tracking tool launched less than 90 days ago, already has 1.8 million active users and an NPS of 85 points. Interestingly, 57% of users were unaware of their largest spending categories highlighting our ability to address client pain points and promote financial education. This drives engagement, strengthens relationships and increases long-term client lifetime value.

我們的費用追蹤工具推出不到 90 天，已經擁有 180 萬活躍用戶和 85 點的 NPS。有趣的是，57％的用戶不知道他們最大的支出類別，這突顯了我們解決客戶痛點和促進金融教育的能力。這可以推動參與、加強關係並提高長期客戶終身價值。

We now have 15% of our Uniclass and Personnalite client base using PIX Credit, which is a very positive development. This functionality has contributed meaningfully to the growth in our finance credit portfolio. Over BRL13 billion in credit limits have been reallocated across cards allowing clients to define their preferred limits and products. This flexibility has led to over 20% transactional growth in the past three months.

目前，我們的 Uniclass 和 Personnalite 客戶群中有 15% 使用 PIX Credit，這是一個非常積極的發展。此功能對我們的金融信貸組合的成長做出了重大貢獻。超過 130 億巴西雷亞爾的信用額度已在各卡之間重新分配，讓客戶可以定義他們喜歡的額度和產品。這種靈活性使得過去三個月的交易量增加了 20% 以上。

Once again, this demonstrates how well-designed digital offerings can radically improve product adoption. Digital origination of loans, including personal loans and payroll loans, grew 31% compared to second quarter 2024. This emphasizes digital origination is improving significantly. Origination of daily financing, such as PIX credit, overdraft limit, paying bills and credit card installment plan grew 72% versus second quarter 2024.

這再次證明了精心設計的數位產品可以從根本上提高產品的採用率。與 2024 年第二季相比，包括個人貸款和薪資貸款在內的數位貸款發放成長了 31%。這強調了數位化起源正在顯著改善。與 2024 年第二季相比，PIX 信貸、透支限額、支付帳單和信用卡分期付款計劃等日常融資的發放增加了 72%。

These results reflect the impact of our investments in technology and modernization. These are very positive results, and we decided to share them with you. On the AI front, we've deployed over 500 internal use cases focused on efficiency and productivity. We've launched PIX via WhatsApp for our entire client base powered by AI and transactional capabilities, enabling self-service through intelligent automation.

這些結果反映了我們在技術和現代化方面的投資的影響。這些都是非常正面的結果，我們決定與您分享。在人工智慧方面，我們已經部署了 500 多個專注於效率和生產力的內部用例。我們透過 WhatsApp 為所有客戶群推出了 PIX，該 PIX 由人工智慧和交易功能提供支持，透過智慧自動化實現自助服務。

We are making significant progress in both investments and PIX. Transactionality is key to scaling our models. If you're a client try it, you will see the results yourself. Regarding investment advisory, we've launched a 24/7 AI-powered investment specialist pilot already serving 10,000 clients.

我們在投資和 PIX 方面都取得了重大進展。交易性是擴展我們的模型的關鍵。如果您是客戶，請嘗試一下，您將親眼看到結果。在投資諮詢方面，我們推出了全天候人工智慧投資專家試點項目，目前已為 10,000 名客戶提供服務。

As results evolve, we will expand this solution to a broader base. This is a fully scalable advisory model. As I always say, having good AI technology is necessary, but not sufficient. What truly matters is combining technological know-how with deep expertise in investment products and solutions, which has always been a core strength of the bank.

隨著結果的進展，我們將把該解決方案擴展到更廣泛的範圍。這是一個完全可擴展的諮商模式。正如我常說的，擁有良好的人工智慧技術是必要的，但還不夠。真正重要的是將技術知識與投資產品和解決方案的深厚專業知識相結合，這一直是該銀行的核心優勢。

Our investment front has always been robust. Our understanding of client behavior, economic cycles and solution design is what powers what we call Itau intelligence. Technology alone without domain expertise does not deliver outstanding results. And I believe we've been able to do this in a differentiated way within the industry.

我們的投資陣線一直很強勁。我們對客戶行為、經濟週期和解決方案設計的理解正是我們所謂的 Itau 智慧的動力。僅靠技術而沒有領域專業知識是無法取得優異成果的。我相信我們已經能夠以行業內差異化的方式做到這一點。

To wrap up, I would like to invite you to Itau Day, which will take place on September 2 from 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. Brazilian time. This is an event we host for clients, investors, employees and competitors, where we share more about our journey and strategy and all members of the Executive Committee join the event. So there's our invitation and I hope to see you soon.

最後，我謹邀請大家參加伊塔烏日活動，活動將於巴西時間 9 月 2 日上午 9 點至中午 12 點舉行。這是我們為客戶、投資者、員工和競爭對手舉辦的活動，我們在其中分享更多有關我們的歷程和策略，執行委員會的所有成員都參加了這項活動。這就是我們的邀請，我希望很快能見到你。

We closed another quarter posting very solid results, strong across all lines with high quality, and most importantly, with a long-term view across the balance sheet. We truly believe in long-term management. We must continue to follow our mantra, capital allocation, portfolio management, resilience and consistency.

我們又一個季度取得了非常穩健的業績，各方面表現強勁，品質上乘，最重要的是，我們對資產負債表有著長遠的眼光。我們堅信長期管理。我們必須繼續遵循我們的口號、資本配置、投資組合管理、彈性和一致性。

That's what underpins the numbers you've seen so far. It's a highly entrepreneurial environment where people are energized, results are growing, and we're building remarkable things. I am very excited about what we've been able to accomplish without ignoring the challenges ahead. Let's talk more about this.

這就是您目前看到的數字的基礎。這是一個高度創業的環境，在這裡人們充滿活力，成果不斷增長，我們正在創造非凡的事物。我對我們所取得的成就感到非常興奮，因為我們沒有忽視未來的挑戰。讓我們進一步討論這個問題。

And now I will join Gustavo for our traditional Q&A session. Thank you for your trust and for being here. See you soon.

現在我將與 Gustavo 一起進行我們傳統的問答環節。感謝您的信任與支持。再見。

(Event Instructions). We have Milton here and Gabriel. He is here, the CFO. Welcome to you both. And let's go to the first question that comes from Daniel Vaz from Safra Bank.

（活動說明）。這裡有米爾頓和加布里埃爾。他在這兒，是財務長。歡迎你們兩位。我們先來看第一個問題，來自 Safra Bank 的 Daniel Vaz。

Congratulations on the results. Excellent cash generation. I think that bank is very well positioned for the distribution of dividends for the shareholders and there is a capacity, I saw the headlines. But anyway, I wanted to discuss another in the network, we see the interest of our capital growing 7.5%. We see the issuance number and the issuance of Itau closer to 5% [Bradesco] and Santander as well.

恭喜你取得這樣的成績。優秀的現金產生能力。我認為該銀行非常適合為股東分配股息，並且有能力，我看到了頭條新聞。但無論如何，我想在網路中討論另一個問題，我們看到我們的資本利息增加了 7.5%。我們看到發行數量以及 Itau 的發行率也接近 5% [Bradesco] 和 Santander。

So very close. So we can see the inference of the market that you're gaining market share over the last few months. I wanted to understand that strategy. Where are you -- what is the direction? How can you be more competitive? And how can you achieve a directed offering for a specific client, so we can try and capture that strategy. And once again, congratulations on the results.

非常接近。因此，我們可以看到市場的推論：過去幾個月裡，你們的市佔率正在不斷擴大。我想了解這個策略。你在哪裡——方向是什麼？如何才能更具競爭力？以及如何為特定客戶提供定向服務，以便我們可以嘗試掌握策略。再次恭喜您所取得的成果。

Thank you, Daniel. It's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for your initial words. Well, ready network, we have less -- we haven't talked about the results in an isolated way because we are integrated really network into the strategy of the bank. It's a flow overview.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。很高興您能來。感謝您最初的發言。好吧，準備好網絡，我們有更少的——我們沒有孤立地談論結果，因為我們真的將網絡融入了銀行的策略中。這是一個流程概覽。

The TPV of the market of credit cards and TPV of the flow, the market of credit cards is 4% of the TPV of the flow. So for us, it's much more important to see the full offer, the vision of the client and this is the overview that we have here. Evidently, we see the other indicators, but the result of [Red] is distributed into the results as we published.

信用卡市場TPV和流量TPV，信用卡市場是流量TPV的4%。因此，對我們來說，更重要的是了解完整的報價、客戶的願景，這就是我們在這裡所看到的概述。顯然，我們看到了其他指標，但[紅色]的結果分佈在我們發布的結果中。

We blocked the paid and the receivables and we have the result of Flex and MDR, which is what you see here, the rental but result of RAV and the cost -- the financial cost of RAV is in the margin for the client. So -- the result is always difficult to try and understand how the take rate, the result is with this overview.

我們阻止了已付款項和應收款，我們得到了 Flex 和 MDR 的結果，這就是您在此處看到的，租金，但 RAV 的結果和成本 - RAV 的財務成本在客戶的利潤中。所以——結果總是很難嘗試並理解接受率如何，結果就是這個概述。

The market share for us is not an objective. I always reinforce this issue. Market share, it's a consequence of everything that we do and everything that we believe in because once we focus on the correct client with correct price and the holistic vision of the relationship as a whole, the consequence is the market share.

對我們來說，市佔率並不是目標。我總是強調這個問題。市場佔有率是我們所做的一切和我們所信仰的一切的結果，因為一旦我們以正確的價格關注正確的客戶，並對整個關係有全面的了解，其結果就是市場份額。

So we don't do a management where we've seen a few cases where you get in with the result of the margin -- contribution margin that is negative, but actually that's rental of the market share because our market share comes from big names, but it doesn't reflect into the result at the end of the day.

因此，我們不進行管理，我們已經看到一些案例，你的利潤結果是負的，但實際上這是市場份額的租金，因為我們的市場份額來自大公司，但它並沒有反映在最終的結果中。

And sometimes it's a good tractor of this result. So we have, by a consequence of everything that we've done, we are leaders, but we don't have to be the leaders. That's not an issue for us. The cost of the volume for market share to be concentrated on the big numbers, the big names where the contributions are much lower, the margins are very tight.

有時，這是一台能帶來這種結果的優秀拖拉機。因此，根據我們所做的一切，我們是領導者，但我們不必成為領導者。這對我們來說不是問題。市佔率的增加導致成本集中在大品牌身上，而大品牌的貢獻卻低得多，利潤空間也非常小。

And sometimes, we see contribution margins that are negative for the operations. So we continue with this strategy. Integration is a success. We are happy with the results. The way that the commercial teams are particularly on the acquiring business. Acquiring is nothing more than the additional receivables of the other ways that the client has to receive.

有時，我們會看到貢獻利潤率對營運產生負面影響。因此我們將繼續執行這項策略。整合是成功的。我們對結果很滿意。商業團隊特別注重收購業務的方式。收單無非就是客戶所要收的其他方式的額外收款。

So this is the way that we managed the business, and it brings a natural results such as the flow creates value. And we continue to be very focused in our share of cash, penetration share of payments. That's how we see the relationship with the client.

這就是我們管理業務的方式，它帶來了自然的結果，例如流程創造價值。我們將繼續高度關注現金份額和支付滲透份額。這就是我們看待與客戶的關係的方式。

Now let's go to the second question, Renato Meloni, Autonomous. Good morning, Renato. We do not hear you.

現在我們來討論第二個問題，Renato Meloni，Autonomous。早安，雷納托。我們聽不到你說話。

Congratulations on the results once again. Well, I wanted to talk about the portfolio of finance credit, which is growing. It's very interesting, it's growing beyond the total portfolio of credit cards and you're focusing more on the Personnalite and Uniclass base and you're improving the profitability of our portfolio without increasing your credit risk.

再次恭喜您所取得的成果。好吧，我想談談正在成長的金融信貸組合。這非常有趣，它的成長超越了信用卡的整體組合，而您更加關注 Personnalite 和 Uniclass 基礎，並且您正在提高我們組合的盈利能力，而不會增加您的信用風險。

So I wanted to understand which are the initiatives of these new products that you're developing and deploying in this segment. And thereafter, if I want to understand if that's a relevant contribution for your clients in this quarter? And does this continue throughout the year?

所以我想了解你們在這個領域開發和部署的新產品有哪些措施。然後，我想了解這對您本季的客戶是否是相關的貢獻？這種情況會持續一整年嗎？

Thank you, Renato. Thank you for the opportunity to have you here. We've seen a healthy evolution in this quarter, specifically with the margin with the client. We've seen an important contribution. It's a set of factors, the margin of the credit card, the finance credit card is a component, but it's not a single one.

謝謝你，雷納托。感謝您給我這次機會來到這裡。我們看到本季出現了健康的發展，特別是客戶利潤方面。我們看到了重要的貢獻。這是一組因素，信用卡的保證金，金融信用卡是一個組成部分，但不是單一的。

So that's why we want to open the personal credit card portfolio that you see that the rotation credit is doing well. There is a seasonality because when you see the expenses over the last quarters and the rollout from the first to the second one, there is a propensity to the higher financing. This is an aspect.

所以這就是為什麼我們要打開個人信用卡組合，你會看到輪換信用表現良好。存在季節性，因為當您看到過去幾個季度的支出以及從第一季到第二季的推出時，您會發現融資傾向較高。這是一個方面。

Second aspect, is everything that we've discussed on the evolution of the journey of our clients. So when we can penetrate these segments such as Uniclass, specifically in Personnalite and this product, it shows how can we, in the context of the journey and the transaction of the client, digital products that are very important. The client is facing a purchase sometimes it's a short-term transaction.

第二個方面是，我們討論的所有關於客戶旅程演變的內容。因此，當我們能夠滲透到 Uniclass 等細分市場，特別是 Personnalite 和這款產品時，它表明了我們如何在客戶旅程和交易的背景下，提供非常重要的數位產品。客戶面臨的購買有時是短期交易。

They can get a discount because they're going to pay in PIX, and it's important for them to finance that purchase in competitive conditions, and we have the rates according to the profile of the client segment. It's more of the profile than the segment in a way that we can personalize the offerings for the clients.

他們可以獲得折扣，因為他們將使用 PIX 支付，並且對他們來說在競爭條件下為購買提供資金非常重要，而且我們會根據客戶群的概況確定利率。它更多的是一種概況而不是細分，這樣我們就可以為客戶提供個人化的服務。

So this is what we've seen, yes, there is an expansion of the PIX credit within a credit card. We understand that this is best chassis in the context of the journey of the client. And so this is a set of initiatives. It contributes for the margin of the clients. But when you see breakdown for the client stories, average volume contributing, the liability is contributing when we see exclusively the part of mix of product distribution certainly, there is an impact as well in the rotation, and there is an impact -- positive impact for the mix, which is the growth in the retail in regards to the middle, which we published in the MPME.

所以這就是我們所看到的，是的，信用卡中的 PIX 信用有所擴展。我們明白，這是客戶旅程中最好的底盤。這是一系列舉措。它為客戶的利潤做出了貢獻。但是，當您看到客戶故事的細分、平均交易量的貢獻、負債的貢獻時，當我們只看到產品分銷組合的一部分時，肯定會對輪換產生影響，並且會產生積極的影響——對組合產生積極影響，即中間零售的增長，我們在 MPME 中發表了這一影響。

These are the three that contribute for an important margin with the client, and I think that we have a maturity level that is good in this quarter. And probably, we're not going to see the same growth level for the next quarter given that we've got to a maturity level that is very important this quarter, specifically with the margin with the client, it's expanding your question.

這三項對於客戶利潤的貢獻是巨大的，我認為我們本季的成熟度水準很好。而且，考慮到我們本季已經達到了非常重要的成熟度水平，我們可能下個季度不會看到相同的成長水平，特別是客戶的利潤率，這擴大了您的問題。

We've seen an evolution, but there is a series of positive factors. The rotation of credit, the growth of the finance credit card, the growth of government, which has an expansion in the net margin. We had another business day, which is another impact we had in anticipation of results, of operations, of wholesale that are structured than we would imagine that they would materialize in the second quarter and they anticipated.

我們看到了演變，但也存在著一系列正面因素。信貸的循環，金融信用卡的成長，政府的成長，都帶來了淨利的擴大。我們又度過了一個工作日，這對我們預期的結果、營運和批發產生了另一個影響，這些影響比我們想像的要多，它們將在第二季度實現，並且是他們預期的。

So there is a set of positive factors. Up ahead, this acceleration that we're observing in the quarter, it doesn't come with the same intensity. But regardless, the guidance was seen again, and we can fulfill at the end of the year, a stronger result than originally planned.

因此存在一系列積極因素。展望未來，我們在本季觀察到的這種加速並不具有相同的強度。但無論如何，指導意見再次體現，我們可以在年底實現比原計劃更強勁的結果。

Thank you. Let's go to the third question, Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

謝謝。我們來進入第三個問題，美國銀行的馬裡奧·皮埃里 (Mario Pierry)。

Good morning, everyone. Congratulations once again on the result. Milton, what really impresses me is you're delivering the results, generating a lot of capital but the management is still not satisfied. I mean, you're always trying to improve. What came attention was the extraordinary expenses that you had in this quarter, BRL600 million, approximately in the restructuring.

大家早安。再次恭喜這項結果。米爾頓，真正讓我印象深刻的是，你取得了成果，創造了大量資本，但管理階層仍然不滿意。我的意思是，你總是在努力進步。值得關注的是本季您在重組中產生的非常費用約為 6 億巴西雷亞爾。

So could you explore more what are the measures? What are you thinking? I imagine that this is more for the reduction of the physical distribution of the bank, but would you be able to anticipate to us a target, goal of efficiency?

那麼，您能否進一步探討這些措施是什麼？你在想什麼？我想像這更多是為了減少銀行的物理分佈，但您能為我們預測一個目標，效率目標嗎？

Well, Mario, thank you. Thank you for the initial words. I think that this point that you bring to the beginning is our culture. It is a lot of the DNA of the organization. And this intensity of wanting to do better every day. We are never satisfied. We celebrate good results, but the celebration is short term. The challenges are big. And we are looking to the future to try and overcome our expectations.

好吧，馬裡奧，謝謝你。感謝您最初的話語。我認為您一開始提到的這一點就是我們的文化。這是該組織的許多 DNA。並且每天都渴望做得更好。我們永不滿足。我們慶祝良好的結果，但慶祝只是短暫的。挑戰是巨大的。我們著眼於未來，努力超越我們的期望。

This is -- we have to extract and operate in pockets of credit that with a lower efficiency index, you can absorb more risk than what we can absorb in the status quo. So I believe that we've done a provision for the structuring of the -- in the past, it's nonrecurring recurrent. It's important to make this point, drive this point through.

這就是——我們必須在效率指數較低的信貸領域提取和運營，這樣你才能吸收比現狀下更多的風險。所以我相信我們已經為結構化做好了準備——在過去，它是非經常性的經常性的。闡明這一點並深入闡述這一點非常重要。

If we will see in 2019, we're talking about 2025, if you do a provision with this characteristics, these provisions are done when we look at a scenario up ahead, and we see that we are in a period of adjusting of the harvest of the investments that were done in the past.

如果我們在 2019 年看到，我們談論的是 2025 年，如果你做一個具有這種特徵的規定，這些規定是在我們展望未來的情況時完成的，我們看到我們正處於調整過去投資收穫的時期。

It's nonrecurrent. It's extraordinary certainly, but we will continue to evolve in our digital agenda and a bit of the information that I brought to you, the evolution of One Itau, which is a relevant embryo, so we can advance more and more with the super app, the results are incredible. All the evolution of the digital acceleration allows us to be more ambitious in the plan. And this is what we are discussing.

它是非復發性的。這確實很特別，但我們將繼續發展我們的數位議程，以及我為大家帶來的一些信息，One Itau 的發展，這是一個相關的胚胎，因此我們可以透過超級應用程式取得越來越多的進步，結果是令人難以置信的。數位化加速的所有演變使我們在計劃上更加雄心勃勃。這就是我們正在討論的。

We're looking at efficiency we -- you'll see that we are getting to an efficiency level that is very competitive. We can see some volatility in the efficiency level the quarters up ahead because it's resulting naturally from revenue and cost. But directionally, we have to have a an index of efficiency in businesses that we need to be more competitive.

我們正在關注效率——您會發現我們正在達到非常有競爭力的效率水平。我們可以看到未來幾季的效率水準會出現一些波動，因為這是由收入和成本自然造成的。但從方向來看，我們必須有一個企業效率指數，以提高競爭力。

There are businesses that we are a global benchmark for efficiency, specifically in the wholesale operations and in retail, we see an operation, we see an opportunity to evolve in the efficiency level. Well, everybody has their home or to do. It's not a challenge of one segment or the other, we have different proportions.

在某些業務方面，我們是全球效率的標桿，特別是在批發業務和零售業務方面，我們看到了運營，並看到了效率水平發展的機會。嗯，每個人都有自己的家或要做的事情。這不是一個部分或另一個部分的挑戰，我們有不同的比例。

We have evolved in this agenda, Gabriel, he has been the leader of this effort in the organization. It's not effort just to finance. It's an effort of the whole organization. It's not just a project of one area is the work of everyone and every -- now we are in the phase of execution that is very strong.

我們已經制定了這項議程，加布里埃爾一直是該組織此項工作的領導者。光是籌措資金並不需要付出努力。這是整個組織的努力。這不僅僅是一個領域的項目，而是每個人的工作——現在我們正處於非常強大的執行階段。

We've been for many, many years in the period of investment, and now we are in a relevant phase of discussion, and we've expected that we are going to advance in these restructurings over the next quarters and the next years. We don't give you a guidance of footprint because the footprint is a consequence of what our clients are demanding. It's natural that the flows are dropping.

我們已經處於投資期很多年了，現在我們正處於相關的討論階段，我們預計我們將在未來幾季和幾年內推進這些重組。我們不會給您提供足跡的指導，因為足跡是我們客戶要求的結果。流量下降是自然的。

And well, we continue to adjust the footprint there is a reduction in the adjustment, and we will adjust as necessary. So we can understand the sustainability of these models, the value of our position and the model of service for the client. This is what we focused. And certainly, we will work and we'll continue to work in this provision is an implementation that is the clearest example of that to continue moving forward with our plans and the implementation of this project.

好吧，我們繼續調整足跡，調整中會減少，我們會根據需要進行調整。這樣我們就能了解這些模式的可持續性、我們的立場的價值以及為客戶提供服務的模式。這就是我們關注的重點。當然，我們會努力工作，並將繼續努力執行這項規定，這是最明顯的例子，我們將繼續推進我們的計劃和該專案的實施。

Now we will continue with Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

現在我們繼續採訪摩根大通的尤里費爾南德斯。

Good morning, everyone. Congratulations. Thank you, Gustavo. Another result that is very good on the capital. I'm going to ask on physical, which is another variable of efficiency. Well, the only line of the bank that is weaker, the digital but I understand the logic. I think that we have the revenue of the checking account, it has been dropped -- is dropping.

大家早安。恭喜。謝謝你，古斯塔沃。對首都來說，這是另一個非常好的結果。我要問的是身體方面的問題，這是效率的另一個變數。嗯，銀行唯一比較弱的就是數位業務，但我理解其中的邏輯。我認為我們的支票帳戶收入已經下降——正在下降。

So how much stabilization should we see in the checking account? This is a line that is weaker. You have some nice data on the -- well, the consortium is doing well. The insurance is doing well. So I wanted to understand the improvement of efficiency in your plan, the stabilization in the line of fees, sorry, and in retail and wholesale, well, on the opposite of what I thought it would be weaker. There is more wholesale than retail. So if you can comment the trajectory of this line, it would be great.

那麼，我們應該看到支票帳戶有多大的穩定呢？這是一條較弱的線路。您有一些很好的數據——嗯，該財團做得很好。保險業表現良好。所以我想了解你們計劃中效率的提高，費用的穩定，抱歉，以及在零售和批發方面，嗯，與我想像的相反，它會更弱。批發量大於零售量。因此，如果您可以評論這條線的軌跡，那就太好了。

I believe that here, we need to break down the answer into a few chapters. The first one, transactionality. We see in the retail, the transactionality is still very strong. I've discussed of the good cholesterol, the bad cholesterol, we see transactionality occurring in the issuance and the acquiring and the engagement of our products in the digital channel. So we are increasing the volume in consistent and an important way.

我認為，這裡我們需要把答案分解成幾個章節。第一個，交易性。我們看到，零售業的交易活動仍然非常強勁。我討論過好膽固醇和壞膽固醇，我們看到交易發生在我們的產品在數位管道的發行、收購和參與中。因此，我們正在以一種持續且重要的方式增加產量。

There are two lines that I would say that they directly, they fall through our time, and that's why we changed the way that we published. So when we have tariffs, the checking account. And we are talking about tariffs and packages. We are re-signifying the packages it doesn't tend to zero because as you create value in the package as we can do that. There is charge for a package. It's a different way to service a client.

我想說的是，有兩條線直接貫穿了我們的時代，這就是我們改變出版方式的原因。因此，當我們有關稅時，就有支票帳戶。我們正在討論關稅和套餐。我們正在重新標記包裹，它不會趨於零，因為當您在包裹中創建價值時，我們可以做到這一點。包裹需要收費。這是為客戶提供服務的不同方式。

But directionally, we highlight that first relevance of this line in the quarter. And secondly, I think that it will continue to drop little by little when we look up ahead, and we will resignify the packages, but the deltas, the millions of reals for all the completion of the revenue of insurance is not irrelevant. The percentages are higher because we're talking about smaller numbers. So what is the variation in this revenue, the percentages are higher.

但從方向來看，我們強調了本季該生產線的第一個相關性。其次，我認為，當我們展望未來時，它將繼續一點一點下降，我們將重新簽署這些方案，但增量，即數百萬雷亞爾對於完成保險收入而言並非無關緊要。因為我們討論的是較小的數字，所以百分比較高。那麼這個收入的變化是多少，百分比更高。

So when we look at credit card, it's always important to remember that here, you have revenue of exchange, and you have the revenue of the invoice and we see that this is less relevant and we see the strategy. We have to be careful because every company you have the growth of tariffs that is relevant you are seeing decline.

因此，當我們查看信用卡時，始終要記住，這裡有兌換收入，有發票收入，我們發現這不太相關，我們看到了策略。我們必須小心，因為每家公司相關的關稅都在成長，但同時卻在下降。

And you have an adverse result in your base because the good clients that have access to good offerings will migrate. If you have a good transaction other way the bank and a good relationship to end up bringing the client are willing to pay for something that is not necessarily a capacity to increase the cross-sell and engagement for the bank. So this is -- we have to be careful when we look at the long term.

而這會對你的客戶群帶來不利影響，因為那些能夠獲得優質服務的優質客戶將會流失。如果您以其他方式與銀行建立了良好的交易關係，最終會讓客戶願意支付某些費用，而這不一定能夠增加銀行的交叉銷售和參與度。所以，從長遠來看，我們必須要小心謹慎。

So yearly, rates are dropping, and we are working. The loyalty program is still relevant because we see the credit card, we need to see it in the context of the relationship. Then when we look at payments and repayment and receivables, then you have the companies, you have the revenues, you have Rede, you have payments, you have the revenue of PIX within companies university. There is another logic of relationship.

因此，每年的利率都在下降，我們也在努力工作。忠誠度計劃仍然具有現實意義，因為我們需要在關係的背景下看待信用卡。然後，當我們查看付款、還款和應收帳款時，你就有了公司，有了收入，有了Rede，有了付款，有了公司大學內的 PIX 收入。還有另一種關係邏輯。

It has to do more with the flow, and we've seen positive results. So when we look at the wholesale, there are two separations. The economic consultancy, the result is weighted because we had a weaker because we had a second quarter that is historical in the past with debt. So we need to be very strong with that.

它與流程有更多關係，我們已經看到了積極的結果。因此，當我們看批發時，有兩個分離。經濟顧問公司表示，結果是加權的，因為我們的第二季表現較弱，這是歷史上債務問題較為嚴重的時期。因此，我們必須非常堅定地對待這一點。

So there is less volumes in the market and this quarter, we've seen there is one operation that is more relevant that has the characteristics that are our own and the general volume is dropping 20%, so that affects naturally this line. On the other hand, if you discuss the administration of resources. Consortium is doing very well. Important growth year-on-year.

因此，市場交易量減少，本季度，我們發現有一項更相關的操作具有我們自己的特點，總體交易量下降了 20%，因此這自然會影響這條線路。另一方面，如果你討論資源管理。財團表現非常好。年比有顯著成長。

And the second aspect are the profiles that we're doing very well. So we have a better profile in the market in the second quarter and the added value and our best expectation is that in the fourth quarter, we can deliver good profiles. But once again, it depends on the market and all the expenses that this brings.

第二個方面是我們做得非常好的概況。因此，我們在第二季的市場形象和附加價值方面都有所改善。我們最好的預期是，在第四季度，我們能夠提供良好的形象。但再次強調，這取決於市場以及由此帶來的所有費用。

So when we look to insurance and the social security, we have great results, solid ones, important volumes that are growing the volume and we need to see the performance fee which is very solid with the added value and insurance is growing very relevant year-on-year, 7%, 7.7%, and we see any quarter-on-quarter. So we see an expansion, but it has to do with the activity.

因此，當我們看保險和社會安全時，我們取得了很好的成績，穩固的業績，重要的業務量正在增長，我們需要看到績效費用非常穩固，附加價值也非常高，保險的同比增長非常快，達到 7%，7.7%，而且我們看到任何季度環比增長。所以我們看到了擴張，但這與活動有關。

As we see smaller activity, the data of the share of this business, naturally, we can feel more of what happened in this quarter. The rest, we think that we are performing very well in the line, it's important to look at the performance of the line but also thinking about the lifetime value of the client vision.

由於我們看到的活動較少，該業務份額的數據自然可以讓我們更感受到本季發生的事情。其餘方面，我們認為我們在生產線上表現非常好，重要的是看生產線的性能，但也要考慮客戶願景的終身價值。

So it's not just growing in the line. If you had a way of showing that we are growing in the rates of the checking account in natural person or the yearly rates of credit card or we would not be satisfied. So we wouldn't be understanding the change in the market and the added value to improve the value proposition of the client and increase the engagement and the completeness of the relationship.

所以它不僅僅是在生產線上成長。如果您有辦法證明我們的自然人支票帳戶利率或信用卡年利率正在成長，否則我們不會滿意。因此，我們無法了解市場的變化和附加價值，從而改善客戶的價值主張並增加參與度和關係的完整性。

(spoken in foreign language).

（用外語說）。

So congratulations, Gabriel, Gustavo and Milton. Congratulations on the results. Now my question is the ROI per segment. The profitability of the wholesale went over to retail for many, many years. So how can you think about and decompose this reversal in terms of segments that contributed the most for this operation.

所以恭喜加布里埃爾、古斯塔沃和米爾頓。恭喜你取得這樣的成績。現在我的問題是每個細分市場的投資報酬率。多年來，批發的獲利能力轉移到了零售。那麼，您如何從對這項行動貢獻最大的部分來思考和分解這一逆轉。

More of a spread efficiency or even the improvement in the risk profile and how does the bank see the profitability of this differential of ROI, specifically considering the competitive environment and credit environment that is more selective in the second quarter?

更多的是利差效率，甚至是風險狀況的改善，銀行如何看待這種投資回報率差異的盈利能力，特別是考慮到第二季度更具選擇性的競爭環境和信貸環境？

Thank you, Bernardo. Thank you for your kind words. I think that in the third quarter of 2022 when we got to 16.4% of profitability in the retail, I said that we were not happy with that profitability. We were coming from a credit cycle that was tighter, was more difficult, but we would do a catch-up all throughout the next quarters. So here, there is a lot of work.

謝謝你，貝爾納多。感謝您的善意言辭。我認為，在 2022 年第三季度，當我們的零售盈利率達到 16.4% 時，我說過我們對這個盈利率並不滿意。我們正處於一個信貸週期更加緊張、更加困難的時期，但我們將在接下來的幾季裡迎頭趕上。所以這裡有很多工作要做。

There is a lot of effort. There is no server bullet naturally credit and the derisking that we've done in the portfolio throughout the period, all the portfolio management, focusing more and more resilient clients in longer cycles. Well, the digital journey of the bank. The delivery of value that we've shown the evolution of the digital acceleration of [PAD] everything that we achieved. So when we look at retail, we look at the expansion of the net financial margin specifically.

還有很多努力。沒有伺服器子彈自然信貸和我們在整個期間內在投資組合中所做的降低風險，所有的投資組合管理都在更長的周期內關注越來越多的有彈性的客戶。嗯，銀行的數位化之旅。我們所交付的價值展示了[PAD]數位加速的演變以及我們所取得的一切成就。因此，當我們看零售業時，我們特別關注淨財務利潤的擴張。

We have financed credit card that is evolving. We have the rotation of credit, evolving the funding in the next quarter, we see more pressure with the cap products, the cost of credit nominally drops. So when we look at retail, we -- you can see that we expanded the financial margin with the client, dropping the cost of credit in a nominal way. So the net financial margin is expanding. This is the main driver.

我們已經推出了正在發展的融資信用卡。我們經歷了信貸的輪換，下一季的融資不斷增加，我們看到上限產品的壓力越來越大，信貸成本名義上下降。因此，當我們看零售業時，我們——你可以看到，我們擴大了與客戶的財務利潤，名義上降低了信貸成本。因此，淨財務利潤正在擴大。這是主要驅動因素。

Our vision is that we think that, yes, there is a sustainability at this level of profitability, there is some volatility as natural that it occurs, we've had a quarter that we have the alignment of the start, so to speak, but within a profitability threshold that is very comfortable. The retail of the companies is evolving and a great catch-up that was done was in the natural person.

我們的願景是，我們認為，是的，這種盈利水平具有可持續性，存在一些波動是自然而然的，我們已經有一個季度實現了開局的調整，但在一個非常舒適的盈利門檻內。公司的零售業正在不斷發展，而自然人則完成了巨大的追趕。

We, in fact, change the threshold of the -- we create value for the organization. The more volatile products, we don't do the management product oriented, but with profitabilities that are very high creating a lot of value. So here, it's a set of values that went to the same point, and this is the result. The -- we have an important driver for the profitability on the long term. We are very focused on this.

事實上，我們改變了門檻——我們為組織創造價值。對於波動性較大的產品，我們不以產品為導向進行管理，而是以非常高的獲利能力來創造大量價值。所以這裡，這是一組到達同一點的值，這就是結果。我們擁有一個推動長期獲利的重要動力。我們非常關注這一點。

And in the wholesale, we don't do the breakdown, but I'm going to mention it because I think it's relevant. When we think about Brazil and Lat Am, we see that in Brazil, we are changing with the profitability center in this -- is the sum of WMS and Itau BBA. When we highlight LatAm vision, we have an ROI of 15.8 in close to 16. So it creates a lot of value in that sense.

在批發方面，我們不做細分，但我要提一下，因為我認為這是相關的。當我們考慮巴西和拉丁美洲時，我們發現在巴西，我們的獲利中心正在改變——這是 WMS 和 Itau BBA 的總和。當我們強調拉美願景時，我們的投資報酬率在接近 16% 時達到 15.8。從這個意義上來說，它創造了很多價值。

So it's very interesting to see that even though the retail has done this expansion, the wholesale has delivered solid results, about 30% in Brazil and all the businesses that we are working. So the advantage of having a portfolio that is diverse, relevant and that we can naturally navigate through all on wholesale and retail, performing with great profitability is the great advantage of having a universal bank that is deep in all the businesses and has a market leadership in a great deal of the businesses that we work with.

因此，非常有趣的是，儘管零售業已經實現了擴張，但批發業仍然取得了穩健的業績，在巴西和我們正在進行的所有業務中，批發業的份額約為 30%。因此，擁有多元化、相關性強的投資組合，並且能夠自然地駕馭批發和零售業務，實現高盈利，是擁有一家涉足所有業務、並在我們合作的很多業務中佔據市場領導地位的全能銀行的巨大優勢。

And now we have Henrique Navarro, Santander Brasil.

現在我們有巴西桑坦德銀行的恩里克·納瓦羅。

Congratulations on the results. My question is about the portfolio of corporate. We've seen some headwinds, the IOF in this quarter, the dollar. And even though you got some important growth in this portfolio. So my question is, where -- what is the DNA of this growth?

恭喜你取得這樣的成績。我的問題是關於公司投資組合的。我們看到了一些阻力，本季的 IOF 和美元。儘管你的投資組合取得了一些重要的成長。所以我的問題是，這種成長的 DNA 在哪裡——是什麼？

Is it capital markets? Where does it come from? Is it more aggressive policies? What can we expect for the next quarters?

是資本市場嗎？它從何而來？這是更激進的政策嗎？我們對下一季有何期待？

Thank you, Henrique. Great to see you again. Here, the effect of the exchange rate that you commented, it's very relevant and portfolio has a lot of sensitivity to the foreign currency, the growth here of wholesale has a boom of operations that we put in the portfolio without changing the appetite. This is very important for the long-term vision for the strong portfolio management on the long term. We have inside of Itau BBA, several segments of clients.

謝謝你，亨里克。很高興再次見到你。在這裡，您所評論的匯率的影響非常相關，並且投資組合對外匯具有很大的敏感性，批發業務的增長導致了我們將其放入投資組合中的業務的繁榮，而胃口並沒有改變。這對於長期強大的投資組合管理的長期願景非常重要。在 Itau BBA 內部，我們有幾個客戶。

We've grown the portfolio per quality and all of them removing the foreign exchange effect, of course, we have agri business, which has a performance that is very highlight. We've seen the middle which is an effect of foreign exchange when we see foreign exchange grows, even though the companies grow, the SMEs grow super bullet, all the segments we have penetration that is good and with the right price.

我們已經擴大了每個品質的投資組合，並且全部消除了外匯影響，當然，我們的農業業務表現非常突出。我們已經看到了中間情況，這是外匯的影響，當我們看到外匯成長時，即使公司成長，中小企業也成長迅速，我們在所有領域都有良好的滲透率和合適的價格。

We have a discipline of price that is very strong. Prices in the sense of capital allocation for the return of capital allocated capital. So we see the accesses in the market they occur, but we'd rather lose share than lose money and lose profitability. So we've been very disciplined. We don't see difficulties. We continue to grow this portfolio, the right price with the adequate profitability level and with the completeness of the relationship that we have with the clients.

我們對價格有非常嚴格的規定。資本配置意義上的價格為已配置資本的報酬。因此，我們看到了市場上的准入現象，但我們寧願失去份額，也不願損失金錢和獲利能力。所以我們一直都非常自律。我們沒有看到困難。我們將繼續擴大此產品組合，以適當的價格、足夠的獲利水準以及與客戶的完整關係。

So the growth is very diversified, no big concentrations and no changes in the appetite. This is the most important thing. And that's why we've decided to be more aggressive and taking more risk. No, it's the opposite. We are more cautious. When we look at the challenges up ahead. The interest rates and the activities, we continue to be very careful as needed.

因此，成長非常多樣化，沒有大的集中度，也沒有食慾的變化。這是最重要的事。這就是為什麼我們決定採取更積極的態度並承擔更多風險。不，恰恰相反。我們更加謹慎。當我們展望未來的挑戰。對於利率和活動，我們將繼續根據需要保持非常謹慎的態度。

Next question Eduardo Rosman, BTG.

下一個問題是 Eduardo Rosman，BTG。

Good morning, everyone. Two questions that I believe that are interrelated. First, about the credit business. We've seen that they generated value through this period. ROI is above the cost of capital. And if I'm not wrong, historically, you've always indicated that the ROI has to be closer to the cost of capital and the excess of return should be coming from the other lines.

大家早安。我認為這兩個問題是相互關聯的。第一，關於信貸業務。我們看到他們在這段時期創造了價值。投資報酬率高於資本成本。如果我沒錯的話，從歷史上看，你總是表示投資報酬率必須更接近資本成本，而超額報酬應該來自其他方面。

But the business of wholesale -- of retail is changing in the high income. So we would expect that this number would go up. And now what happened? And along with this question is with the future -- in the future with the improvement of efficiencies that you are indicating that are possible, risk appetite would increase? Would we see more opportunities of growth in Itau? And even in the future, we can reduce the payout, so we can reinvest more and grow better with higher ROIs.

但批發零售業在高收入的環境下正在改變。所以我們預計這個數字會上升。那麼現在發生了什麼事？而這個問題是關於未來的—在未來，隨著您指出的可能的效率提高，風險偏好會增加嗎？我們會在伊塔烏看到更多的成長機會嗎？即使在未來，我們也可以減少支出，以便我們可以進行更多再投資，並透過更高的投資回報率實現更好的發展。

Well, thank you, Rosman. It's a pleasure to see you again. Well, in fact, it was a good quarter for credit because of the reason that I just commented expansion of the margin, it was very good. The cost of credit, very well behaved. In the retail, we've seen the cost of credit that is normally dropping so a relevant point.

好吧，謝謝你，羅斯曼。很高興再次見到你。嗯，事實上，對於信貸來說這是一個好的季度，因為我剛剛評論了利潤率的擴大，這是非常好的。信用成本，表現非常好。在零售業，我們看到信貸成本通常正在下降，因此這是一個相關的觀點。

We've seen a few doubts about the formation on the quarter. It's important to remember that we work with the expected loss in the bank. So the main effect for the provisions is the short-term delay for the last quarter. When it goes through the long-term delays, the provisions have been already done. So that's why the coverage level is not on the delay, we had a provisioning on the formation 120% and the -- it's even below 100 in the retail, it's 98%.

我們看到了一些針對本季形成的質疑。重要的是要記住，我們處理的是銀行的預期損失。因此，這些規定的主要作用是最後一個季度的短期延遲。當它經過長期拖延時，該規定已經完成。所以這就是為什麼覆蓋率不是延遲的原因，我們對形成的撥備率為 120%，而且 - 零售額甚至低於 100，為 98%。

So the expected loss and the short-term delays, that's why I say opening for the short-term delay delinquency because it's what's expecting -- it's what directing the expected loss of the balance sheet. Anything differently from that your operating and incurred losses and unexpected losses.

因此，預期損失和短期延遲，這就是為什麼我說為短期延遲拖欠開端，因為這是預期的 - 這是指導資產負債表的預期損失。與您的經營和已發生的損失以及意外損失不同的是。

So I just wanted to clarify that. And even though we see the formation aligned with the portfolio that we observed and within the volatility that is expected and seen the seasonality in this quarter, first quarter -- from the first to the second, the rollout of the short term to the long-term delay, then it normalizes later.

所以我只是想澄清這一點。儘管我們看到的形成與我們觀察到的投資組合一致，並且在預期的波動範圍內，並且看到了本季度、第一季度的季節性——從第一季度到第二季度，短期推出到長期延遲，然後它隨後恢復正常。

So I wanted to clarify with your question this aspect. This quarter was very solid in net financial margin. The credit is performing very well. In fact, the cost of capital, if you see it's closer to 15. So since we are looking at an average ROI and cost of capital, it creates value. If we operate it with 15 and the average in the whole quarter, we would be slightly below in the cost of capital.

所以我想透過你的問題來澄清這方面。本季的淨財務利潤率非常穩健。信貸表現非常好。事實上，如果你看一下資本成本，它就接近 15。因此，由於我們關注的是平均投資回報率和資本成本，因此它創造了價值。如果我們以 15 和整個季度的平均值來運營，我們的資本成本將略低於這個數字。

So here, you're always running against the cost of capital. So it depends on the interest rate cycle in Brazil. It depends on the COI, cost of equity of the bank on the long term, and that's what's going to determine. With all the agenda of efficiencies, and we still believe that working close to the cost of capital is the ideal, so we can achieve naturally, penetrate with the relationship with our clients.

因此，在這裡，你總是在與資本成本作鬥爭。所以這取決於巴西的利率週期。這取決於 COI，也就是銀行的長期股權成本，這就是要決定的因素。儘管有各種效率議程，我們仍然相信接近資本成本是理想的，這樣我們才能自然地實現與客戶關係的滲透。

And of course, it varies from segment to segment, but it's has to do with what we produced of credit over the last year that has been very good quality, positive for the value creation. So the positive trend for the creation of credit as well. About the efficiency level that you discussed, I certainly, when we adjust the efficiency level index, it's going to open for space for credit operations that do not have the necessary profitability so we can, in fact, get into different public.

當然，各個部分的情況有所不同，但這與我們去年提供的信貸有關，這些信貸品質非常好，對價值創造有積極作用。因此，這對於信貸創造來說也是一種正面的趨勢。關於您討論的效率水平，我當然知道，當我們調整效率水平指數時，它將為沒有必要盈利能力的信貸業務打開空間，這樣我們實際上就可以進入不同的公眾。

So today, we don't get in because of that reason, because of the limitation of the efficiency level. So this is the direction that we're headed. Our objective is not a big payout. Our objective is to reinvest the capital of the bank in adequate profitability and distribute the access that we shouldn't use. So with all the migration of One Itau and all the advances that we're doing in the natural person specifically.

所以今天我們沒有進去，就是因為這個原因，因為效率等級的限制。這就是我們前進的方向。我們的目標並不是獲得大筆回報。我們的目標是將銀行資本重新投資於足夠的獲利能力，並分配我們不應該使用的存取權限。因此，隨著 One Itau 的所有遷移以及我們在自然人方面取得的所有進展。

And all the expectation of the expectation of the efficiency level, this will allow us to get into pockets that we explore very little clients that we subservice or we cannot service at all in an interesting way. So this is a great opportunity for growth. One Itau is bringing that we are advancing in the efficiency level, certainly, and we're going to have space to grow in these portfolios.

所有對效率水準的期望，將使我們能夠以有趣的方式探索我們無法提供服務的極少客戶。所以這是一個很好的成長機會。One Itau 無疑使我們的效率水平不斷提高，而且我們在這些投資組合中將擁有成長空間。

Next question with Thiago Batista, UBS.

下一個問題是瑞銀的蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔 (Thiago Batista)。

I'm going to do a follow-up on the question of Rosman and Mario on efficiency. Are you comfortable that today your app, not One Itau, but the retail app is state of the art to the point that the branches are secondary to the relationship with the client. So it's a question about asset quality.

我將對羅斯曼和馬裡奧關於效率的問題進行跟進。您是否感到滿意，今天您的應用程式（不是 One Itau）而是零售應用程式已經達到了最先進的水平，以至於分店對於與客戶的關係來說是次要的。所以這是一個關於資產品質的問題。

And you're very comfortable with the evolution of the quality of the portfolio in the second quarter, potentially until next year. Do you think that that's a specific factor that is just your so you could focus in more -- in better clients or for the market as a whole, would you think that this is the same for the portfolios or the asset quality. It's not a niche thinking about the second semester?

您對第二季甚至明年投資組合品質的變化感到非常滿意。您是否認為這是一個特定的因素，因此您可以更加關注 - 更好的客戶或整個市場，您是否認為這對於投資組合或資產品質是一樣的。不是很想念第二學期嗎？

Thank you, Thiago. Great to see you again. I'm going to start by the second one, and I'm going to answer both. But here about the cost of credit, that has to do with the clear strategy of the bank of doing a portfolio management with a long-term vision in the wholesale and retail. So we see very little hiccups and volatility in the numbers.

謝謝你，蒂亞戈。很高興再次見到你。我將從第二個問題開始，並回答這兩個問題。但這裡關於信貸成本的問題，與銀行在批發和零售領域進行長期投資組合管理的明確策略有關。因此，我們看到的數字很少出現問題和波動。

And when you see the management for the long-term cycle, you can have a better control for the quality of credit. You define the public, you can clusterize the base, you can define the frontiers of the appetite for clusters. And in that sense, you are going to navigate in a less volatile way and in a more consistent way.

當你看到長期週期的管理時，你可以更好地控制信用品質。你可以定義公眾，你可以將基礎集群化，你可以定義對集群的需求的邊界。從這個意義上來說，您將以更穩定、更一致的方式進行導航。

The worst thing that can happen with the credit relationship is the stop and go that you offer, and then you have to stop abruptly, the predictability of the client and the bank and the results. I'm going to give you two indicators of the market and not doing any sort of qualification of what we are seeing.

信貸關係中可能發生的最糟糕的事情是你提供的服務時斷時續，然後你必須突然停止，客戶和銀行的可預測性和結果。我將向你們提供兩個市場指標，但不會對我們所看到的情況做任何限定。

But I believe that the performance has two indicators that I follow, of delays which is the system publishing. The credit card and vehicles. We've seen in the last quarter, the long-term delays on the credit card growing 100 points in this quarter. So there can always be a discussion that the change of criteria of write-off ours grew 20.

但我認為，我關注的表現有兩個指標，就是係統發布的延遲。信用卡和車輛。我們在上個季度看到，本季信用卡的長期延遲增加了 100 個百分點。因此，總是可以討論我們的註銷標準的變化增加了 20。

So when we compare with the performance of the market, and we haven't seen any change of criteria and the write-off, we've seen the performance of the industry that it's different from what we observed and ballpark 20%, when you exclude Itau from December, you'll see that the impact is more relevant than that.

因此，當我們與市場表現進行比較時，我們沒有看到任何標準的變化和註銷，我們看到行業的表現與我們觀察到的有所不同，大約 20%，當你將 Itau 從 12 月排除時，你會發現影響比這更為相關。

For vehicles is no different. We see that, well, vehicles can be a change of write-offs, policies of write-offs No, the short-term delay of vehicles is coming stronger than what we observed. Short-term delay doesn't have any relationship with the policies of write-off. So we continue to be very consistent.

對於車輛來說也一樣。我們看到，嗯，車輛可以改變註銷，註銷政策不，車輛的短期延遲比我們觀察到的要強烈。短期拖延與核銷政策無關。因此我們繼續保持高度一致。

We have gained shares with the clients that we publish targets for the organization. We've penetrated in an important way. We've grown two digits in this public. This is a management strategy. I believe that every bank has their own strategies, their own policies, their own criteria. Ours is this and it has been very consistent. Specifically, when you allocate capital in an incorrect way with the transaction, then you see profitability with the capital allocation. So this has been an important driver.

我們為組織發布了目標，從而贏得了客戶的認可。我們已經取得了重要突破。我們在這個公眾中已經成長了兩位數。這是一種管理策略。我相信每家銀行都有自己的策略、自己的政策、自己的標準。我們的情況就是這樣，而且一直都非常一致。具體來說，當您在交易中以不正確的方式分配資本時，您會看到資本配置的獲利能力。所以這是一個重要的驅動因素。

Now the first point I wanted to highlight, I think that all the investments that we've done with the super app, the digital journeys with the completeness, taking off transactionality. We don't want to make the client go to the branch. They go if they want to go. So all the digital transformation was necessary. If they want to stay in the super app or if they want to go to the branch and talk to the manager, of on-site or remote agent or a consultant of real estate or insurance, it's a decision of the client.

現在我想強調的第一點是，我認為我們對超級應用程式所做的所有投資，以及數位化旅程的完整性，都提升了交易性。我們不想讓客戶去分行。如果他們想去，他們就去。因此，所有的數位轉型都是必要的。如果他們想留在超級應用程式中，或者他們想去分行與經理、現場或遠端代理商或房地產或保險顧問交談，這由客戶決定。

We cannot oblige the client to use one channel or the other because of a lack of offering. So we try to offer all. We are very satisfied with the evolution of the super app, and we are looking at the NPS absolute that is -- it's drastically -- we've reduced the digital that had a higher NPS. So we are in the same arena, competitive arena for the cost of quality and with opportunities to continue to evolve.

我們不能因為缺乏服務而強迫客戶使用某個管道。因此我們盡力提供一切。我們對超級應用程式的發展非常滿意，我們正在關注 NPS 絕對值——這是大幅的——我們減少了具有更高 NPS 的數字。因此，我們處於同一個舞台，在品質成本方面競爭，並且擁有繼續發展的機會。

And to launch new products, we launched 19 new products, and we've shown the results of some and this is the new normal of the bank. It's not a project. It's not that we delivered a product and it's engagement, it's activation. It's better penetration in the relationships. And this is the new normal of the bank.

為了推出新產品，我們推出了 19 款新產品，並且已經展示了一些成果，這是銀行的新常態。這不是一個項目。這並不是說我們交付了產品，而是參與，激活。它可以更好地滲透關係。而這正是銀行的新常態。

We're going to have a new bank, digital bank for the client. We have 70 million clients. And within the public, we have different profiles. We have those that prefer the physical branch. There are the specific public for specific publicly demand remote service. So this is the advantage. We can service the client in all of the context. And I am certain that the super app that we've done is going to be a facilitator for the evolution of the efficiency level of the retail segment.

我們將為客戶提供一家新銀行、數位銀行。我們有7000萬客戶。在公眾中，我們有不同的形象。我們有些人更喜歡實體分支機構。還有針對特定公眾的特定公眾需求的遠端服務。這就是優勢。我們可以在所有情況下為客戶提供服務。我確信，我們開發的超級應用程式將促進零售業效率水準的提升。

Now we have Gustavo Schroden from Citibank.

現在我們請到花旗銀行的古斯塔沃‧施羅登 (Gustavo Schroden)。

Congratulations on the solid results. We've discussed the strategy of the bank and about the private consignado. So with the payroll loans, or private payable loans. I wanted you to evaluate how you see the evolution of the product and how Itau wants to position in the consignado privado private payroll loans?

祝賀您取得如此豐碩的成果。我們討論了銀行的策略和私人托運的情況。薪資貸款或私人應付貸款也是如此。我希望您評估一下您如何看待該產品的演變以及 Itau 希望在 consignado privado 私人工資貸款中定位如何？

Well, thank you for the words and the participation in our call. Well, I believe that this is a product in evolution. And we've seen this is a great idea. It makes a lot of sense. We see the portfolio as a whole of the product that is growing in the market. And we're trying -- well, we are growing in BRL40 billion, but it's limited to specific associations. We always had 30% of that market.

好吧，感謝您的演講和參與我們的電話會議。嗯，我相信這是進化的產物。我們已經看到這是一個好主意。這很有道理。我們將產品組合視為市場上不斷增長的產品的整體。我們正在努力——我們的成長目標是 400 億巴西雷亞爾，但僅限於特定的協會。我們一直佔有該市場的30%。

So it's a market that we have a relevant participation, but it's a small market. It's a market that is growing. So we see an evolution of portfolios all throughout the last months. At the beginning, there was more activity than because of operational issues, risk aspects, we've seen a deceleration just for register.

因此，這是一個我們有相關參與的市場，但規模較小。這是一個正在成長的市場。因此，我們看到過去幾個月投資組合一直在不斷演變。一開始，活動比較多，但由於營運問題、風險方面的原因，我們看到註冊量有所減速。

When we talk about platform and organization, the capacity, technological capacity, I believe that we are the first bank along with Banco do Brasil specifically mentioning another one to get into this product of the big banks in this product because of a sensitive reason. The capacity to adapt to the changes that were done that's why we are here.

當我們談論平台和組織、能力、技術能力時，我相信我們是第一家與巴西銀行一起特別提到另一家因敏感原因進入該產品的大銀行的銀行。我們之所以在這裡，就是因為我們有能力適應已經發生的改變。

We are right from the inception and the advantage of taking parts in the beginning is that we learn from this evolution of platform, not only the operational challenges, but we could define very well the strategy. Our strategy is very robust. We focused on the clear matrix of public and that we want to service in which way we're going to grow, and we have the -- we've grown with public leaders weeks that we had 30% of the share of production.

我們從一開始就是正確的，從一開始就參與的優勢在於，我們可以從這個平台的演變中學習，不僅是營運挑戰，而且我們可以很好地定義戰略。我們的策略非常穩健。我們專注於清晰的公眾矩陣，我們希望以何種方式為公眾提供服務，並且我們已經與公眾領導人一起成長了數週，我們擁有 30％ 的生產份額。

I think that in the accumulated, if I had to give you a number, it would be 11%, 12% of market share of production. And once again, focusing when we look at the target products, publics, it's higher market share. There is a lot of non people that don't have a bank account. And so the portfolio is growing, we've grown with adequate prices. If you look at the curve prices in the market, we have the most competitive prices.

我認為，如果必須給出一個數字的話，累計起來，產量的市場份額將是 11% 到 12%。再一次，當我們專注於目標產品、公眾時，它的市場佔有率會更高。有很多非人沒有銀行帳戶。因此，我們的產品組合不斷成長，價格也不斷合理。如果您查看市場上的曲線價格，您會發現我們的價格最具競爭力。

This talks about the quality of the clients that we penetrated with the product and we're migrating from the old to the new product. So we're getting to production levels that are very good with a new product. So there is a ramp-up that is demonstrated in the period. And today, we are very well positioned, and we're very well structured and we are very satisfied. We've seen two problems: credit which we've seen a level of delinquency that is higher, the full portfolio as a whole, not in our case. So it's tight. And the way that we structure ourselves, we have the breakdowns.

這談到了我們透過產品滲透的客戶的質量，以及我們正在從舊產品遷移到新產品。因此，我們的新產品的生產水準已經達到了非常好的水準。因此，這段時期出現了成長動能。今天，我們的定位非常有利，結構非常完善，我們非常滿意。我們看到了兩個問題：信貸方面的拖欠率較高，而整個投資組合方面的拖欠率較高，而我們的情況並非如此。所以很緊。我們建構自己的方式有缺陷。

We have two installments paid, and we saw breakdowns on the payments from the first year, the second one when we found a mechanism to advance even in these relationships, given the profile of the client that we're working. So we are excited with the evolution, I believe, and there is still a long way ahead with the market, with the clients, with the companies who have to adapt, [DataPriviS], everybody is doing their homework. Nonetheless, I see a positive result. It doesn't really move the needle in a relevant way, but directionally, we are down the right path.

我們已經支付了兩期款項，第一年和第二年我們看到了付款的細目，考慮到我們正在服務的客戶的情況，我們找到了一種在這些關係中推進的機制。所以我相信，我們對這種發展感到興奮，而且市場、客戶、需要適應的公司還有很長的路要走，[DataPriviS] 每個人都在做自己的準備。儘管如此，我看到了積極的結果。它實際上並沒有以相關的方式產生影響，但從方向上看，我們正走在正確的道路上。

Now the next question with Marcelo Mizrahi. We don't hear you Marcelo.

下一個問題請問馬塞洛‧米茲拉希 (Marcelo Mizrahi)。我們沒聽到你說話，馬塞洛。

My question I wanted to go back to growth. And I understand the message. Really, when we look at the line to line, we've seen several lines with weaker growth than what we've seen in the previous quarter in the natural persons and the credit card or the vehicle portfolio and even the rhythm of the growth of SMEs is a bit slower. So about the guidance. And when we look at the guidance, I think that the only line of the guidance that seems more at risk is the growth of portfolio.

我的問題是想回到成長問題。我明白這個訊息。確實，當我們逐行觀察時，我們發現自然人和信用卡或汽車投資組合中的幾條線路的增長速度比上一季度要弱，甚至中小企業的增長節奏也有些慢。關於指導。當我們查看指導意見時，我認為指導意見中唯一看起來風險更大的部分是投資組合的成長。

So I wanted you to tell us. You've reviewed the guidance, so it's stable in growth. And I imagine that having the level of trust that you have in regards to the middle point of the average, so we can expect -- so we can understand what we can expect in the next quarters? And what is the portfolio that should help in this composition of the guidance? And now to continue with this question is the issue of the dividends.

所以我希望你告訴我們。您已經審查了指導意見，因此其增長是穩定的。我想，您對平均值的中間點有這樣的信任程度，所以我們可以預期——所以我們可以了解下個季度會發生什麼？那麼，什麼樣的投資組合應該有助於制定這份指導方針呢？現在繼續討論的是股利問題。

It really gives you the impression of the payout, the percentage can be higher in this year than last year. I don't know if it's early to say this, but I wanted you to share that.

它確實給你一種支出的印象，今年的百分比可能比去年更高。我不知道現在說這是否為時過早，但我希望你能分享這一點。

Thank you, Marcelo. Thank you for the question. It's a pleasure to see you again. I think you're right when you look at the realized and projected. And in fact, when we do a review of the guidance, we do a review line per line. So we revisited all lines because if there is an information that is better available, then we want to correct whenever necessary.

謝謝你，馬塞洛。謝謝你的提問。很高興再次見到你。當您看到已實現和預計的結果時，我認為您是對的。事實上，當我們審查指南時，我們會逐行進行審查。因此，我們重新審視了所有線路，因為如果有更好的資訊可用，那麼我們希望在必要時進行修正。

But in fact, when you look, apparently, the biggest challenge is in the portfolio. You run in this region. And even so we reaffirm the guidance. So the best information that we have today, as the effect of the foreign exchange that is important, the real is gaining value in regards to the other currencies and that plays against.

但事實上，如果你仔細觀察就會發現，最大的挑戰顯然在於投資組合。您在這個區域跑步。即便如此，我們仍重申這項指示。因此，我們今天得到的最佳資訊是，作為重要的外匯效應，雷亞爾相對於其他貨幣的價值正在上升，並且正在發揮作用。

So it's a guidance of consolidated of the portfolio. So the currency can explain a piece of the behavior, it's difficult to project the foreign exchange rate for the second semester, if it's going to impact the growth of portfolio or not. But we continue to believe that all the segments and the way that we plan for this year, and we've done the guidance, we'll be able to deliver what is predicted in the guidance.

因此，這是對投資組合合併的指導。因此，貨幣可以解釋部分行為，很難預測第二學期的外匯匯率是否會影響投資組合的成長。但我們仍然相信，所有部門以及我們今年的規劃方式以及我們所做的指導，我們將能夠實現指導中的預測。

We don't give point guidance. I don't give you -- I'm not going to tell you if it's the middle point. We give you a range, and we still believe that the range is the best information, our best expectation for the growth of portfolio. Anything different from that naturally adjustments will be done but we continue to be trusting that we can deliver the guidance with the information that we have.

我們不提供點位指導。我不會告訴你——我不會告訴你它是否是中間點。我們給出一個範圍，我們仍然相信這個範圍是最好的訊息，也是我們對投資組合成長的最佳預期。任何與此不同的情況自然都會進行調整，但我們仍然相信，我們能夠根據所掌握的資訊提供指導。

Now it depends on the scenario. It depends on cycle, it depends on demand. So we've seen a demand that is weaker with higher interest rates. So there are several factors that affect. And also, it's well distributed.

現在這取決於具體情況。這取決於週期，取決於需求。因此，我們看到利率上升導致需求減弱。因此，有幾個因素會影響。而且分佈也很均勻。

There is no specific segment. We continue to believe that we continue to grow in the natural persons we grow healthily in the companies -- in big companies as well in all the segments with lesser degrees with varying degrees, but there is a specific segment that will perform better than the other. So I believe that today, we are within our expectations, initial expectations. This is the first point.

沒有特定的片段。我們仍然相信，我們在自然人中將繼續健康成長，我們在公司中也將繼續健康成長——在大公司以及所有不同程度較小程度的細分市場中，但有一個特定細分市場的表現將優於其他市場。所以我相信今天，我們的成績是符合我們的預期，符合我們最初的預期。這是第一點。

Second point, on the payouts. So we don't give you a guidance of payout. So your question, you asked if it's earlier, yes, it is earlier. But directionally, what I wanted to tell you is the following. We've grown capital with a lot of quality. We've expanded the CET1 in 1.5%, 0.6% adjusted by the provision of the interest of our capital.

第二點，關於支出。所以我們不給你付款指導。所以你的問題是，你問是否更早，是的，更早。但從方向上來說，我想告訴你們的是以下內容。我們已經累積了大量優質資本。我們將 CET1 擴大了 1.5%，並透過資本利息撥備進行了 0.6% 的調整。

So we rhythm of capital generation that is very solid. So the second semester is to the future, we are going to expect to see how we're going to deliver the results for the next as a matter with the micro and macro scenarios and delivering solid results, we have to sit down and see the projection, what we expect of the growth of portfolio, the opportunities of investments.

因此我們的資本生成節奏非常穩健。因此，第二學期是面向未來的，我們將期望看到如何在微觀和宏觀情景下取得成果並取得堅實成果，我們必須坐下來看看預測，我們對投資組合的成長、投資機會的期望。

Naturally, we're going to see our appetite. We've seen 12 of CET1 for the distribution of interest. And we have regulatory impacts, the operational risk and credit risk that we paid the first installment before times for payments without interest rates. So in the next first quarter of the next year, there is some FX projected, we can collaborate well. The objective is not to retain the access.

當然，我們會看到我們的胃口。我們已經看到 CET1 中有 12 個符合利息分佈。我們面臨監管影響、營運風險和信用風險，我們提前支付了第一筆款項，且沒有利息。因此，在明年第一季度，預計會有一些外匯，我們可以很好地合作。目的不是保留存取權限。

It's no longer extraordinary payments, so it's additional payments of dividends. So it's a recurrent as we generate a good base of capital, and this is the best expectation. And we are certainly going to have an additional payment with the same mechanism with the same modeling that we've used for the payment of this year from the standpoint of logic of distribution. And next year, with more information, we can detail to you. But we are positive in regard to that.

這不再是額外付款，而是額外的股息支付。因此，當我們建立良好的資本基礎時，它就會反覆出現，這是最好的期望。從分配邏輯的角度來看，我們肯定會採用與今年付款相同的機制和相同的模型進行額外付款。明年，我們將提供更多信息，向您詳細介紹。但我們對此持正面態度。

Now we're going to switch to English as we have Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs with us.

現在我們要切換到英語，因為我們有來自高盛的 Tito Labarta 與我們在一起。

Congratulations on the strong results. I guess my question is in terms of your maybe longer term or sustainable profitability, right? I mean ROE is very strong. You have excess capital, which you can return, you have room to improve efficiency. So I mean if we continue to extrapolate what you've been doing, ROE could continue to go up, I don't know, '24 or '25 and cycle can change, interest rates will move.

恭喜您取得如此優異的成績。我想我的問題是關於你的長期或可持續盈利能力，對嗎？我的意思是 ROE 非常強。你有多餘的資本，你可以回饋，你還有提高效率的空間。所以我的意思是，如果我們繼續推斷你一直在做的事情，ROE 可能會繼續上升，我不知道，'24 或 '25 週期可能會改變，利率也會變動。

But just to think how do you think about the sustainable profitability? And I say that in the context of thinking about the competitive environment, right? I mean you've derisked on the lower income side. We have some strong competitors there. A lot of competitors are trying to get more into high income where I think you have a bit of a competitive advantage.

但試想一下，您如何看待可持續獲利能力？我是在考慮競爭環境的情況下這麼說的，對嗎？我的意思是你已經降低了低收入方面的風險。我們在那裡有一些強大的競爭對手。很多競爭對手都在嘗試進入高收入領域，我認為這裡你有一定的競爭優勢。

Given this sort of changing competitive landscape, you continue to produce strong results. What do you think is a right level of sustainable ROE at least from a high level, just given all these moving parts that you have?

鑑於這種不斷變化的競爭格局，您將繼續創造強勁的業績。考慮到您擁有的所有這些活動部件，您認為至少從高層次來看，可持續 ROE 的正確水平是多少？

Tito, thank you for your initial words. Good to see you here. Thank you for coming. My view is that even though we don't guide ROE for the long term, we never did and we keep thinking that this is the best way to give you a right assets about the way we are seeing the future. We believe the elements, as you said.

蒂托，謝謝你的開場白。很高興在這裡見到你。謝謝您的到來。我的觀點是，儘管我們不為長期 ROE 提供指導，但我們從未這樣做過，我們一直認為這是讓您正確了解我們對未來的看法的最佳方式。正如您所說，我們相信這些元素。

So the macro is relevant. The level of activities is relevant. At the end of the day, the cost of equity is relevant because if there is a change in the long term in the cost of equity, we might see the ROE somehow behaving in a different way, but always looking to the capital gains, value creation that we have as our mantra here in the bank, the way we manage the organization.

所以宏是相關的。活動的程度是相關的。歸根結底，股權成本是相關的，因為如果股權成本長期變化，我們可能會看到 ROE 以某種方式以不同的方式表現，但我們始終關注資本收益和價值創造，這是我們銀行的宗旨，也是我們管理組織的方式。

So I believe looking for this year, I think it's not so tough to say what I'm going to say, but the 20-plus is reasonable to expect. This somehow is implied in the guidance that we just adjusted but we think we still have capabilities and delivers to keep delivering good profitability for the bank. It's of course, it depends on competition and competition is tough. It's always tough in all the segments.

因此我相信展望今年，我想說的並不難，但 20 多個是合理的預期。這在某種程度上暗示了我們剛剛調整的指導，但我們認為我們仍然有能力並能夠繼續為銀行帶來良好的獲利能力。當然，這取決於競爭，而競爭是激烈的。在所有領域中，事情總是很艱難。

We know we have a lot of very good banks working every day, trying to grow in the segments we somehow we've been leading. But we believe that we have, the capabilities we have, the teams we have, the structure and all the investments we've been making throughout the years to compete very strong and to keep delivering a good position in all those segments where we are.

我們知道有很多非常優秀的銀行每天都在努力工作，試圖在我們一直領先的領域中成長。但我們相信，憑藉我們的能力、團隊、結構以及多年來所做的所有投資，我們能夠保持強勁的競爭力，並在所有領域保持良好的地位。

So I don't see reasons why today with the information we have to see the profitability going under the levels that we've been delivering. I'm not guiding a return on equity. Please don't take me wrong. I'm just saying that this level of profitability so far is sustainable. Let's see the coming quarters what are the challenges we have for Brazil, for the macro, for the micro for competition, for interest rate, for activity, all of them have a relevant impact in the level of profitability. But I don't foresee up to now a reason why we cannot keep delivering a good level of profitability.

因此，我不明白為什麼今天根據這些信息，我們的盈利能力會低於我們一直以來提供的水平。我並不是指導股本報酬率。請不要誤會我的意思。我只是說，迄今為止這種獲利水準是可持續的。讓我們看看未來幾季巴西將面臨哪些挑戰，宏觀方面、微觀方面、競爭方面、利率方面、活動方面，所有這些都會對獲利水準產生相關影響。但到目前為止，我還沒有預見到我們無法繼續保持良好獲利水準的原因。

We are going to keep the discussion in English as we have Nicolas Riva from Bank of America with us. Nicolas, good to see you. Please go ahead.

由於美國銀行的 Nicolas Riva 也與我們一起參與討論，因此我們將繼續使用英語進行討論。尼古拉斯，很高興見到你。請繼續。

So Milton, I have a question on the AT1s, and I think that you alluded to this a bit in your initial remarks, you announced that you're going to be calling both of your dollar AT1s. My question is, I can -- I assume there's not going to be a dollar AT1s issuance at this point to replace the 55 basis points of capital, but please let me know if that's not correct.

米爾頓，我有一個關於 AT1 的問題，我認為你在最初的評論中提到了這一點，你宣布你將把你的兩款美元產品稱為 AT1。我的問題是，我可以——我假設此時不會發行美元 AT1 來取代 55 個基點的資本，但如果這不正確，請告訴我。

And then the second question, on the announcement you mentioned -- so you said the impact on total capital is 65 basis points from calling both of these AT1s, but you extinguished between an impact on Tier 1 on AT1 and on Tier 2 capital. And I wanted to ask what's the reason for the impact on Tier 2, if you're calling both AT1 and from my understanding is that the AT1s count 100% of AT1 capital before and after the call date?

然後是第二個問題，關於您提到的公告——您說調用這兩個 AT1 對總資本的影響是 65 個基點，但您消除了對 Tier 1 對 AT1 和 Tier 2 資本的影響。我想問一下，如果您同時呼叫 AT1，那麼對 Tier 2 產生影響的原因是什麼？據我了解，AT1 是否計算了調用日期之前和之後 100% 的 AT1 資本？

Yes. No, it's completely right. Nicolas, there is no impact in Tier 2. So to be very clear, what we did is a liability management as we are seeing a good opportunity to issue in Brazil. So we did almost BRL10 billion in issuances in this first semester. I would say more recently, BRL5 billion in local AT1, very good market, deep market in very good conditions.

是的。不，完全正確。尼古拉斯，第 2 層沒有影響。因此，要明確的是，我們所做的是負債管理，因為我們看到了在巴西發行債券的良好機會。因此，我們在第一學期就發行了近 100 億巴西雷亞爾的債券。我想說的是，最近，當地 AT1 市場有 50 億巴西雷亞爾，非常好的市場，深度市場，條件非常好。

So as the level of the capital of the bank is 13.1%. We don't think we need to be full power in AT1, 1.5. So we are very comfortable to go behind it. So after all those calls, the $700 million and the $750 million bond, AT1, we should go below 1.5. Our best estimate is to be 1.3, and we are very comfortable with that.

因此該銀行的資本水準為13.1%。我們認為AT1、1.5上不需要全力以赴。所以我們很放心地跟在它後面。所以，在所有這些催繳款、7億美元和7.5億美元債券（AT1）之後，我們的殖利率應該會低於1.5。我們的最佳估值是1.3，我們對此感到非常滿意。

So in the short term, with the market conditions we've been seeing, we don't anticipate going to the international market to do new issuances for AT1. Of course, if there is opportunity in Brazil at a good level of price, we may issue more always looking to the restriction we have, that is 1.5, even though we fulfill today with AT1, we have almost 1.9, 1.8 in AT1s but we only -- we can only use the 1.5.

因此，從短期來看，鑑於我們所看到的市場狀況，我們預計不會進入國際市場發行新的 AT1 債券。當然，如果巴西有機會以良好的價格水平發行債券，我們可能會發行更多債券，同時始終關注我們所面臨的限制，即 1.5，儘管我們今天已經實現了 AT1，但我們的 AT1 數量幾乎是 1.9、1.8，但我們只能——我們只能使用 1.5。

That's why we released the figures the way I just made the presentation. So this is the way for the other ones that are maturing and Tier 2 that we have options and call options by the year-end. It's too early to anticipate what we're going to do.

這就是我們以我剛才演示的方式發布數據的原因。因此，對於其他即將到期的債券和二級債券，我們在年底前擁有選擇權和買權。現在預測我們將要做什麼還為時過早。

And we are going to take in consideration that the level of capital utilizations in the Tier 2, it's a relevant information to make the decision either or not we have to call those bonds. Of course, when you are decreasing the level of capital utilizations in the Tier 2. So there is no impact in Tier 2, 100% AT1, Tier 1 Level 1 capital. And this is what we've been calling and announcing today yesterday with the results figures.

我們將考慮二級資本的利用水平，這是決定是否要調用這些債券的相關資訊。當然，當你降低 Tier 2 的資本利用率水準時。因此，對 Tier 2、100% AT1、Tier 1 一級資本沒有影響。這就是我們昨天打電話並宣布的結果數據。

Now we go back to Portuguese with (inaudible) from Daniel.

現在我們回到葡萄牙語部分，丹尼爾講的是（聽不清楚）。

Congratulations on the results. First, in regards to your mention of new pockets of credits probably in the low income. And with the improvement of the natural persons, you see the indices improving a lot throughout the year, the improvement of One Itau rollout. Reduction of footprint are you revisiting the strategy of the massified and what we -- where we are we expecting? What are we -- what is the reduction of costs?

恭喜你取得這樣的成績。首先，關於您提到的低收入者可能出現的新的信貸領域。隨著自然人的改善，您會看到全年指數都有很大的改善，One Itau 的推出也有所改善。減少足跡您是否正在重新審視大眾化的策略以及我們期望什麼？我們是什麼－什麼是降低成本？

What was in this segment for you to move forward? And the second question is in regards to delinquency. We see in the industry a worsening, it's been a while, six months half a year that has been consistent in the industry, and you have numbers that are very good. You expected a normalization throughout the year, but the natural persons still very low. So I wanted you to know what is the main cause of this improvement vis-a-vis what you had before.

這部分有哪些內容可以推動您繼續前進？第二個問題是關於犯罪的。我們看到行業狀況正在惡化，已經有一段時間了，六個月半的時間，行業狀況一直保持穩定，而且數據非常好。您預計全年都會恢復正常，但自然人數仍然很低。所以我想讓你知道與以前相比這種改進的主要原因是什麼。

Do you think that your improved? And can you stay a lot of time with this discrepancy in regards to the industry? Can you keep if the new harvest are still good enough for you to keep such a higher gap in regards to the industry?

你覺得自己進步了嗎？您能否花大量時間探討這個與產業相關的差異？如果新收成仍然足夠好，您能否保持與行業相比更高的差距？

Well, thank you, Nishio. Pleasure to see you. Thank you for the initial words. Now let me start by the second one. We don't see any reason with the information thereby available to have this continuity on the credit looking up ahead. We're very comfortable with delinquency level. I talked about SME.

好吧，謝謝你，西尾。很高興見到你。感謝您最初的話語。現在讓我從第二個開始。我們認為，根據現有的信息，沒有任何理由可以保證信貸的持續性。我們對犯罪率感到非常滿意。我談到了中小企業。

The expectation is that this normalization can be 10 basis points, 20 basis points in the indicator of delays looking ahead, but within expectation, it's a mechanical issue of not having the delinquency and the portfolio growing and produces a better indicator, not to say artificially. When it normalizes, it goes back to the parameters that we expected before. But Brazil is cyclical. We need to look at the cycle, the activity.

預計這種正常化在未來的延遲指標中可以達到 10 個基點、20 個基點，但在預期之內，這是一個機械問題，不會出現拖欠和投資組合增長，並產生更好的指標，更不用說人為的了。當它恢復正常時，它會回到我們之前預期的參數。但巴西是周期性的。我們需要觀察週期和活動。

With the information that we have today, we kept the guidance of the cost of credit. We understand that this is the best information we had an expansion in the net margin, and we've grown with quality. We don't see a reason that we shouldn't grow with quality. All the harvests, no deviation of what we have as a target audience. So that portfolio, long-term vision is determinant so we can continue to perform.

根據我們今天掌握的信息，我們保持了對信貸成本的指導。我們明白，這是我們淨利潤擴大的最佳訊息，而且我們的品質也在提高。我們認為沒有理由不提高品質。所有的收穫，都與我們作為目標受眾所擁有的沒有任何偏差。因此，投資組合和長期願景是決定我們能否繼續表現的關鍵。

Of course, volatility can always come. That happened in Brazil we've seen it many, many times. I believe that our portfolio is much more resilient than what we had in the previous period. Given the diversification, the portfolio management, all the way that we've managed the portfolio in the wholesale. In retail, it's a more resilient portfolio, less volatile than what we observed.

當然，波動總是會發生的。這種事在巴西發生過，我們已經看過很多次了。我相信我們的投資組合比前一期更有彈性。考慮到多元化、投資組合管理，我們一直在批發中管理投資組合。在零售業中，這是一個更具彈性的投資組合，波動性比我們觀察到的要小。

We have great penetration in credit cards that we are market leaders with a position of highlight in regards to the second place. And even though we have products that are more volatile, we've grown with quality and the target audiences in an important way. And here, we will not forgo of a very of -- where conscientious balance management to have short-term results just to have short-term results because then you pay for this cost of credit for two to three years.

我們在信用卡領域擁有很高的滲透率，是市場領導者，並且位居第二。儘管我們的產品波動較大，但我們在品質和目標受眾方面都取得了重要成長。在這裡，我們不會放棄認真的平衡管理，以獲得短期結果只是為了獲得短期結果，因為這樣你就需要支付兩到三年的信貸成本。

We want to have the decisions that are positive, and this is the way that we manage the balance of the bank, and we are comfortable. Retail, wholesale -- this is for everything. There is an interest in agribusiness, some doubts on the performance of agri business. Well, the segment, just to give you a zoom, I see that this is a segment that in the last few years has suffered.

我們希望做出積極的決定，這是我們管理銀行餘額的方式，我們對此感到滿意。零售、批發——一切皆可。人們對農業綜合企業感興趣，但對農業綜合企業的表現也存在一些懷疑。好吧，只是為了給你放大一下，我發現這是過去幾年遭受損失的一個部分。

The price of commodities, tighter margins, climate issues that are never seen before in some regions, the cost of capture with the Selic rate going up. This is a sector that from previous years had extraordinary years, very strong years and over the last few years, difficult years. What we've seen and we've heard in the market, more volatility in our portfolio, our portfolio from the management standpoint is very balanced.

大宗商品價格上漲、利潤空間收窄、一些地區出現前所未有的氣候問題、隨著 Selic 費率上升而產生的捕集成本。這個行業在前幾年表現非凡，非常強勁，但過去幾年卻舉步維艱。我們在市場上看到和聽到的是，我們的投資組合波動性更大，但從管理的角度來看，我們的投資組合非常平衡。

We are in all the agriculture all relevant, very well selected agricultural distribution, with big clients of agribusiness. The rural producers that invoice higher volumes with higher invoicing, very well-defined agricultural monocultures that we should be present and we are resilient.

我們涉足所有與農業相關的領域，精心挑選農業分銷商，擁有農業綜合企業的大客戶。我們應該關注那些產量較高、開立發票金額較高的農村生產者，他們實行非常明確的農業單一栽培，而且我們具有韌性。

And we've managed to perform our indicators show in a very healthy way regardless of the challenges. And we have an agri business portfolio that is about BRL130 billion. So when we look at the percentage of the RJs that we have in the market, our market share is 5%, with BRL130 billion in portfolio.

無論面臨何種挑戰，我們都成功地以非常健康的方式實現了各項指標。我們的農業業務組合價值約為 1300 億巴西雷亞爾。因此，當我們查看我們在市場上的 RJ 百分比時，我們的市場份額為 5%，投資組合價值為 1300 億巴西雷亞爾。

So we've managed to perform with a portfolio management that is very active and very careful with good penetration of guarantees in the segment in adequate cultures. So I wanted to clarify this out about agri business. So the portfolio is very resilient and always subject to changes in the scenario. That's it. About your first question about the new pockets. Well, we're going step by step.

因此，我們成功地實施了非常積極和謹慎的投資組合管理，並在適當的文化中對該領域實現了良好的擔保滲透。所以我想澄清一下有關農業商業的問題。因此，投資組合具有很強的彈性，並且始終受到情境變化的影響。就是這樣。關於您關於新口袋的第一個問題。嗯，我們一步一步來。

Our objective is not just to open the credit. There is an evolution to capture in the efficiency level, the One Itau is an embryo of this public that we can observe we can work with more emphasis, but this is a very qualified public of One Itau, we have Uniclass, Personnalite clients, it's not just low income in the old concepts. These are incomes that you have this public included. We did a derisk in the portfolio.

我們的目標不僅僅是開立信用。在效率層面上有一個需要捕捉的演變，One Itau 是這個公眾的胚胎，我們可以觀察到我們可以更加重視它，但這是 One Itau 的一個非常合格​​的公眾，我們擁有 Uniclass、Personnalite 客戶，而不僅僅是舊概念中的低收入者。這些是包括公眾的收入。我們對投資組合進行了風險降低。

We reduced the deposition in more vulnerable public, we reduce the volatility as you have more comfort with the right efficiency level and we are evolving our credit levels, artificial intelligence, machine learning, everything that is modeling of high level, we have volume to simply when we have the opportunity, we can evolve. In a consistent and careful way, we are not -- we don't want to rush. We want to do this long-term vision very well.

我們減少了對更脆弱公眾的存款，我們降低了波動性，因為您對正確的效率水平更加滿意，並且我們正在發展我們的信用水平，人工智能，機器學習，一切都是高水平的建模，我們有足夠的數量，只要我們有機會，我們就可以發展。我們始終以謹慎和一致的方式行事，我們不想操之過急。我們希望能很好地實現這個長期願景。

Now we're going to proceed back to English as we have Carlos Gomez-Lopez from HSBC. Carlos. Good to see you. Please go ahead.

現在我們回到英文環節，有請匯豐銀行的卡洛斯‧戈麥斯‧洛佩茲 (Carlos Gomez-Lopez)。卡洛斯。很高興見到你。請繼續。

So two brief questions on two areas we haven't touched. One on the corporate spreads, you mentioned how the market has been quite receptive to your AT1. And in general, the Brazilian market seems to be operating with very low levels of corporate spreads today. Do you think they make economic sense? Do you expect them to increase in the future?

因此，針對我們尚未涉及的兩個領域，我提出兩個簡短的問題。關於企業利差，您提到市場對您的 AT1 的接受度相當高。整體而言，目前巴西市場的企業利差水準似乎非常低。您認為它們具有經濟意義嗎？您預計未來它們會增加嗎？

And second, could you comment on one area of the portfolio that we don't talk too much about, which is the mortgage portfolio? I think it is the one that is growing the most right now in your individual segment, 17%. How are you doing it with these high interest rates?

其次，您能否對我們不太談論的投資組合領域，即抵押貸款投資組合，發表評論？我認為這是目前您所在細分市場中成長最快的，成長了 17%。在如此高的利率下您如何應對？

Yes. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you very much. So yes, you're right. So the spreads in the DCM market, especially for the big corporates in general, the market is very tight and the companies that have been accessing market have been able to do at a very competitive level of prices.

是的。謝謝你，卡洛斯。非常感謝。是的，你是對的。因此，DCM 市場的利差，特別是對於大型企業而言，市場非常緊張，進入市場的公司能夠以非常有競爭力的價格水平進行交易。

The same way for us when we go to the market and access for AT1, as you were saying and mentioning. So this is for everyone. Let's see because we still have a lot of demand with this level of interest rate, a lot of flows going to the credit industry. And that's the reason why we are seeing this level of prices.

正如您所說和提到的，當我們進入市場並進入 AT1 時，我們也是採用相同的方式。所以這是給所有人的。讓我們看看，因為在這種利率水準下我們仍然有很多需求，大量的資金流向了信貸產業。這就是我們看到這種價格水平的原因。

Let's see, looking forward, if the credit scenario keeps delivering the way we've been seeing, if there is no volatility, we believe that this is possible that we will keep looking for this level of prices but will depend a lot in volatility and in the credit market.

讓我們看看，展望未來，如果信貸情況繼續按照我們所看到的方式發展，如果沒有波動，我們相信這是可能的，我們將繼續尋找這種價格水平，但這在很大程度上取決於波動性和信貸市場。

If there is any volatility we might see some changes in prices, but this is not what we are foreseeing right now and the market has been very active even though the volumes have been lower than what we saw last year, the level of prices are still very, very competitive and companies that have a long-term liability program or infrastructure investments are taking the advantage to go along an issue with this level of prices.

如果出現任何波動，我們可能會看到價格的一些變化，但這不是我們現在所預見的，儘管交易量低於去年，但市場一直非常活躍，價格水平仍然非常非常有競爭力，擁有長期責任計劃或基礎設施投資的公司正在利用這一價格水平來解決問題。

So this is what we've been seeing. And the second one on the mortgage side, although I think all the industry, it's over subscribed, I would say, in the levels of what we call the saving accounts. We look to the capability to make price combining what we have in terms of saving accounts, we are in the private industry, we are number one bank in terms of volume.

這就是我們所看到的。第二個是抵押貸款方面，儘管我認為整個行業都已經超額認購，但我想說，在我們所謂的儲蓄帳戶水平上。我們希望能夠結合我們在儲蓄帳戶方面所擁有的資源來進行定價，我們屬於私營行業，就業務量而言我們是第一大銀行。

So we still have less need even though we do have needs to access the market with other instruments, the letter of credits and things like that. We've been accessing market with all the instruments, LC, LCI and others to make that good composition to the funding. We've been very disciplined in price, which is important.

因此，儘管我們確實需要透過其他工具、信用證等進入市場，但我們的需求仍然較少。我們一直在利用各種工具、LC、LCI 和其他工具進入市場，以便為融資提供良好的結構。我們在價格方面一直非常嚴格，這很重要。

But at the end of the day, we still see a lot of demand from clients for the good segments, the segments where we believe there are more resilient, more affluent clients. So that's where we've been able to do good growth. In terms of market share, we've been able to do 45%, 46% of market share on the private banks.

但最終，我們仍然看到客戶對優質細分市場的需求很大，我們相信這些細分市場中的客戶更有韌性，也更富裕。這就是我們能夠實現良好成長的原因。從市佔率來看，我們在私人銀行的市佔率已經達到45%、46%。

And we know that this product is very important for the relationship with our clients' long-term relationship. And we have the edge of having bigger saving accounts amounts, which make us more competitive in general to access those clients. So it's a good growth, very solid and consistent and we still believe there will be opportunities to grow, especially on the retail.

我們知道該產品對於我們與客戶的長期關係非常重要。而且我們擁有更大的儲蓄帳戶金額的優勢，這使我們在吸引這些客戶方面更具競爭力。因此，這是一個很好的成長，非常穩健和持續，我們仍然相信會有成長的機會，特別是在零售方面。

In the wholesale, where we still have capability to produce transactions. We've been very cautious here taking care of the clients that we have but avoiding credits that may be more riskier. We see the market underwriting some risk that we don't believe are sustainable in the long term. So we've been very disciplined with the real estate, especially for -- on the mortgage side.

在批發方面，我們仍然有能力進行交易。我們一直非常謹慎地照顧我們的客戶，但避免可能更具風險的信貸。我們看到市場承保了一些我們認為長期不可持續的風險。因此，我們對房地產，特別是抵押貸款方面，一直非常嚴格。

Now for the last question, we have Natalia Corfield from JPMorgan.

現在，最後一個問題由摩根大通的 Natalia Corfield 提出。

I'm going to mention my question as you do with capital. And a lot of it, well, you sort to Nicolas, which was that there is no impact in I was confused. Another point because you mentioned that you cannot have over 150 basis points in AT1.

我將像您提及資本一樣提及我的問題。其中很多，嗯，你對尼古拉斯進行了分類，但這對我沒有任何影響，我感到很困惑。另一點是因為您提到 AT1 不能超過 150 個基點。

I always understood that Itau thought that it was a level optimal to have that you could have more than 150 basis points. (inaudible) already had it. So I just wanted to clarify with you. Is there any change in the regulation in Brazil then now you cannot issue more than 150 basis points of AT1?

我一直認為伊塔烏認為最佳水準是可以超過 150 個基點。 （聽不清楚）已經有了。所以我只是想向你澄清一下。巴西的規定有什麼變化嗎？現在你不能發行超過 150 個基點的 AT1？

There's no restriction. We can have the volume that we won and issue the volume that we won, but Central Bank only allows that we use Basileia with maximum 1.5 of capital index in AT1. We have, by different reasons. We have a liability management that has been done.

沒有限制。我們可以擁有我們贏得的數量並發行我們贏得的數量，但中央銀行只允許我們使用 AT1 中資本指數最高為 1.5 的 Basileia。出於不同的原因，我們確實這麼做了。我們已經完成了責任管理。

Imagine that we issued BRL10 billion in the first semester of perpetual [LFs]. The calls come after. So there is a temporal lack of you have an excess of AT1 during that time. And you can use more than 1.5 by legislation. So that access that you have as a higher cost is a cost of AT1, but then you do not use it for AT1 purposes.

想像一下，我們在永久債券的第一季發行了 100 億巴西雷亞爾[LFs]。電話隨後打來。因此，如果在那段時間內 AT1 過量，就會出現暫時的缺乏。並且根據立法，您可以使用超過 1.5。因此，您以較高成本獲得的存取權限是 AT1 的成本，但您不會將其用於 AT1 目的。

So there is the temporal mismatch of the issuance and the exercise of the call. That's what happened. We invited, we advanced. A little bit nothing wrong. But what we've seen as a capital level that the bank is running 13.1, with the capacity of capital generation at the core there is no need that we run at 1.5 or 100% all the time.

因此，存在發行和行使看漲期權的時間不匹配的情況。事情就是這樣的。我們邀請，我們前進。有一點點沒錯。但我們看到銀行的資本水準為 13.1，以資本產生能力為核心，我們沒有必要一直以 1.5 或 100% 的水準運作。

So we are very comfortable because it doesn't affect the appetite of risk of the bank and much less the policy of dividends. Having more or less AT1s is not a limitation for the distribution of dividends. We always do the planning on the core equity. So the logic is to do we saw the opportunity of exercising a call. It's an economic decision based on price, and we are comfortable on running less than 1.5.

所以我們非常放心，因為它不會影響銀行的風險偏好，更不會影響股利政策。AT1 的多少不會對股利分配造成限制。我們始終圍繞著核心股權進行規劃。所以邏輯就是我們看到了行使買權的機會。這是基於價格的經濟決策，我們對低於 1.5 的運行感到滿意。

So first, we don't have the appetite to be running. We're going to run 1.5 if we understand that there is an opportunity for capturing the local market that would justify us anticipating and capture if that's not the case, then we are very comfortable running with 1.3 or less than 1.3, if we understand that there is an opportunity given the level of capital that we have of core equity, and we can have through the cycle the utilization of the key 1.5, which is what's happening now, it's not a limitation, no change in appetite.

首先，我們沒有跑步的興趣。如果我們認為有機會佔領當地市場，並且能夠讓我們預期和占領當地市場，那麼我們就會以 1.5 的比率運行；如果情況並非如此，那麼我們很樂意以 1.3 或低於 1.3 的比率運行；如果我們認為有機會，考慮到我們擁有的核心股權的資本水平，我們可以通過週期利用關鍵的 1.5，這就是現在發生的事情，這就是現在發生的事情。

It's more circumstantial issues that we're very comfortable with. In fact, if there is any doubt in regards to Tier 2, there is no relationship with the discussions of the call. Of the Tier 2, the decisions will be made in the future with more information taking into consideration what I just discussed to Nicolas, the utilization of capital that will be an important variable to attribute the economic value of that issuance. This is what we are saying, and this is clearer.

我們對於更具體的情況感到很舒服。事實上，如果對 Tier 2 有任何疑問，那與電話會議的討論沒有任何關係。對於二級市場，我們將在未來做出決定，同時考慮到我剛才與 Nicolas 討論的內容，其中資本的利用率將成為決定該次發行經濟價值的重要變數。這就是我們所說的，而且這一點更加清楚。

Thank you, Milton, Gabriel and all of you -- to all of you that have taken part with our Q&A session, our video conference, and I'd like to give you the floor Milton to close the call.

謝謝米爾頓、加布里埃爾和所有人——感謝所有參加我們的問答環節和視訊會議的人，我想請米爾頓發言來結束本次會議。

Thank you very much for your participation for the questions. And I think that the point that remains is culture. The strength of the organization in the sense that we are all dedicated, looking at the scenario and paying attention to the changes and be satisfied, thinking that we can always do something better every day. This has made the bank evolved all throughout the years. Once again, thank you very much.

非常感謝大家的參與提問。我認為剩下的重點是文化。組織的力量在於我們都很專注，觀察情況，專注於變化並感到滿意，認為我們每天都可以做得更好。這使得銀行多年來不斷發展。再次感謝您。

We're very happy and satisfied with the results, but that surpassed water under the bridge. We've discussed the results and we need to work for the next quarters, believing in the value of the franchise on the long term, and this is what we believe every day focusing on a sustainable growth and evolving with the client satisfaction centrality, solving the pains of the clients every day, and we are in a unique moment, not only of the balance and results with strategic positioning to face the challenges up ahead.

我們對結果非常高興和滿意，但這已經是過去的事了。我們已經討論了結果，我們需要為接下來的幾個季度而努力，相信特許經營的長期價值，這也是我們每天都堅信的，專注於可持續增長，以客戶滿意度為中心不斷發展，每天解決客戶的痛點，我們正處於一個獨特的時刻，不僅要平衡和取得成果，還要有戰略定位來應對未來的挑戰。

And we can evolve in our digital journey artificial intelligence and everything to do with the technology that is available. Always paying attention to our clients and naturally our investors. Thank you very much for your trust. Thank you for the messages and the questions. And the challenges are up ahead, and we still have a lot of work to do. Thank you very much.

我們可以在數位化旅程中發展人工智慧以及與現有技術相關的一切。始終關注我們的客戶，當然還有我們的投資者。非常感謝您的信任。謝謝你們的留言和提問。挑戰還在前方，我們還有很多工作要做。非常感謝。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中的英文陳述是由現場翻譯人員宣讀的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。