伊塔烏聯合銀行 (ITUB) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello. Good morning everyone. My name is Gustavo and it is a pleasure to have you joining us for our third quarter of 2025 earnings video conference. As always, Milton will walk you through our performance and afterwards we'll open the floor for a Q&A session where analysts and investors will be able to interact directly with us. Before handing over to Milton, I would like to share a few instructions to help you make the most of today's event. (Operator Instructions)

你好。大家早安。我叫古斯塔沃，很高興您能參加我們2025年第三季財報視訊會議。像往常一樣，米爾頓將為大家介紹我們的演出，之後我們將開放問答環節，分析師和投資者將能夠與我們直接互動。在將發言權交給米爾頓之前，我想分享一些說明，以幫助您充分利用今天的活動。（操作說明）

With that, I'll now hand over to Milton, and I'll see you again shortly for the Q&A session. Milton, over to you.

接下來，我將把發言權交給米爾頓，稍後我們將進入問答環節。米爾頓，該你了。

Good morning everyone. Welcome. It is a pleasure to be here with you once again to present our third quarter 2025 results. Thank you, Gustavo. In a moment, I will join Gustavo and Gabriel for our Q&A session. The objective of this presentation, as always, is to share with you an executive and objective overview so that we have quality time for discussion afterwards. I believe it is important to have a Q&A session with adequate time and depth. Let's move on to the numbers.

大家早安。歡迎。很高興能再次與各位齊聚一堂，向大家介紹我們2025年第三季的業績。謝謝你，古斯塔沃。稍後，我將和古斯塔沃、加布里埃爾一起參加問答環節。本次演講的目的，一如既往，是向各位提供一個概要和客觀的概述，以便我們之後有充足的時間進行討論。我認為安排充足的時間和深入的問答環節非常重要。接下來我們來看數字。

I will begin with the main highlights. I will cover results, ROE, Capital Services and insurance, the loan portfolio and long term delinquency. The first highlight is that we closed the quarter with very strong net income. BRL11.9 billion, representing growth of 3.2% compared to the second quarter of 2025 and 11.3% compared to the third quarter of 2024. Therefore, we continue to expand our bottom line.

我將從主要亮點開始。我將介紹業績、淨資產收益率、資本服務和保險、貸款組合和長期拖欠。首先值得一提的是，我們本季淨利表現非常強勁。119億雷亞爾，比2025年第二季成長3.2%，比2024年第三季成長11.3%。因此，我們的獲利能力持續提升。

Just as important as the bottom line is profitability. On a consolidated basis, our ROE reached 23.3% and in Brazil ROE was 24.2%. So, we posted a profitability expansion compared to the previous quarter. But what I always like to emphasize, and we include this in the footnotes for you, is the capital adjustment. As you saw on the first slide, in terms of capital, we closed the quarter at 13.5% of CET1. Adjusting the capital for our Board's approved risk appetite or to the CET1 level we have seen in the market, we are running at 25.4% ROE on a consolidated basis and in Brazil at 26.7% for the period. This is a very strong profitability level reaching almost 27% of ROE in Brazil.

獲利能力與最終利潤同樣重要。合併後，我們的淨資產收益率達到 23.3%，在巴西，淨資產收益率為 24.2%。因此，與上一季相比，我們的獲利能力有所提升。但我一直想強調的是，我們也在腳註中列出了這一點，那就是資本調整。正如你在第一張投影片中看到的，就資本而言，我們本季末的 CET1 佔比為 13.5%。根據董事會批准的風險偏好或我們在市場上看到的 CET1 水準調整資本，我們合併後的 ROE 為 25.4%，在巴西的 ROE 為 26.7%。這是一個非常強勁的獲利水平，在巴西的淨資產收益率接近 27%。

How did we achieve this result? First, capital showed significant expansion in the quarter with growth of 40 basis points. Compared to September 2024, we saw a slight decrease. But it is important to remember that we had a relevant additional dividend distribution this year.

我們是如何達到這結果的？首先，本季資本市場出現顯著擴張，成長了 40 個基點。與 2024 年 9 月相比，我們看到略有下降。但要注意的是，我們今年也進行了一次相關的額外分紅。

Moving on to services and insurance. This was a very solid and strong quarter for this line, which grew by 4.0% in the quarter and 7.1% year over year. Regarding the loan portfolio, we closed the quarter at BRL1.4 trillion, a growth of 0.9% compared to June and a 6.4% growth year over year. Excluding the FX impact, the portfolio grew by 1.7% in the quarter and 7.5% year over year. Another highlight is delinquency. We have been able to grow the loan portfolio with high-quality credit and with very well controlled delinquency levels.

接下來談談服務和保險。對於該產品線而言，這是一個非常穩健強勁的季度，本季成長了 4.0%，比去年同期成長了 7.1%。關於貸款組合，本季末達到 1.4 兆雷亞爾，比 6 月增長 0.9%，年增 6.4%。剔除匯率影響，此投資組合本季成長 1.7%，較去年同期成長 7.5%。另一個重點是青少年犯罪。我們透過高品質的信貸和非常有效的違約率控制，實現了貸款組合的成長。

Here I am highlighting long-term delinquency, but you will see that the portfolio remains very well behaved in any credit indicators such as cost of credit, stages, coverage, short and long-term delinquency.

這裡我重點關注的是長期違約，但你會發現，該投資組合在任何信貸指標方面都表現得非常好，例如信貸成本、階段、覆蓋率、短期和長期違約。

I would like to highlight the growth in our loan book. Let me start by focusing on the individual segment. We grew by 1.0% quarter over quarter and 6.5% year over year, and in this table, we present a breakdown of the segment. I would like to highlight mortgage loans, which grew by 2.0% in the quarter and 15.2% year over year. In the first nine months of this year, we originated BRL24 billion in mortgage loans, a 24% year over year increase.

我想重點介紹一下我們貸款業務的成長。首先，我想重點談談個人部分。我們環比成長 1.0%，年成長 6.5%，下表列出了該細分市場的具體情況。我想重點介紹抵押貸款，該季度增長了 2.0%，同比增長了 15.2%。今年前九個月，我們發放了240億雷亞爾的抵押貸款，年增24%。

Our market share among private banks is 47% in this product, which is highly relevant for client relationships and for our long-term vision. Structurally, we have a higher savings balance among private banks, which also allows us to deliver long-term value to our clients. Regarding the quality of the individual's portfolio growth, focusing first on credit cards, we grew by 4.3% in the quarter. The consolidated growth was 0.8%, but when we look at the mid and high-income segments, we posted a significant growth of nearly 24% year over year.

我們在私人銀行該產品的市佔率為 47%，這對客戶關係和我們的長期願景都至關重要。從結構上看，我們在私人銀行中擁有更高的儲蓄餘額，這也使我們能夠為客戶創造長期價值。關於個人投資組合成長的質量，首先關注信用卡，我們本季成長了 4.3%。整體成長率為 0.8%，但當我們觀察中高收入群體時，我們實現了近 24% 的顯著同比成長。

In personal loans, we posted a 1.4% growth, but it is important to break down this line. It is composed of consumer credit, which grew by 3.1% in the quarter and 9.6% year over year, revolving credit, which grew by 5% in the quarter and 15% year over year, and refinancing credit, which is the portfolio we aim to reduce, which declined by 3.4% in the quarter and 12.4% year over year.

個人貸款業務成長了 1.4%，但有必要對此數據進行細分。其中，消費信貸本季成長 3.1%，年成長 9.6%；循環信貸本季成長 5%，年增 15%；再融資信貸（我們計畫減少的信貸組合）本季下降 3.4%，年減 12.4%。

This shows that beyond simply looking at aggregate performance, it is important to analyze the breakdown within each line we disclose. In payroll loans, the highlight is the strong growth in private sector, up by 9.5% in the quarter and also up by 9.5% year over year. The public sector portfolio posted a slight decrease and for INSS beneficiaries, which are the retirees, the main effect comes from the interest rate cap implemented some time ago.

這表明，除了關注整體績效之外，分析我們所揭露的每項績效的具體組成也很重要。在薪資貸款方面，亮點是私部門的強勁成長，本季成長了 9.5%，年增了 9.5%。公共部門投資組合略有下降，而對於 INSS 受益人（即退休人員）來說，主要影響來自前段時間實施的利率上限。

We are currently facing our highest funding costs, which has led us to reduce origination in some channels, especially through banking correspondence. Today, most of our production is already being done through our own channels. And we have stopped operating in some segments due to low spreads and low returns.

我們目前面臨最高的融資成本，這導致我們減少了某些管道的貸款發放，特別是透過銀行函件的貸款發放。如今，我們的大部分生產都已透過我們自己的管道完成。由於利潤空間小、報酬率低，我們已經停止在某些領域的業務運作。

Moving to the SMEs loan portfolio, it was up by 1.1% in the quarter and 7.5% year over year. In Brazil, the portfolio grew by 1.2% in the quarter and 7.8% year over year, and the total portfolio grew by 6.4% year over year. Here we present the breakdown excluding the FX impact.

中小企業貸款組合方面，本季成長了 1.1%，年增了 7.5%。在巴西，該投資組合本季成長了 1.2%，較去年同期成長了 7.8%，而整個投資組合較去年同期成長了 6.4%。這裡我們列出不包含匯率影響的細分資料。

For SMEs, Growth would have been 8% year over year, for large companies, nearly 10%, and in Latin America 4.5%. The total portfolio grew by 6.4% year over year and would have grown by 7.5%, excluding the FX impact. The highlight in SMEs is the government programs, which posted a growth of 10.9% in the quarter. A very solid result.

對於中小企業而言，年成長率為 8%；對於大型企業而言，年成長率接近 10%；而對於拉丁美洲企業而言，年成長率為 4.5%。總投資組合年增 6.4%，若不計匯率影響，則較去年同期成長 7.5%。中小企業的亮點在於政府項目，該季度增長了 10.9%。非常令人滿意的結果。

When we look at the year over year performance, growth was over 110%. I would like to emphasize that this is a portfolio that is growing significantly but with high quality. We have been originating through these lines with shorter grace periods of under 12 months while we have seen the market originating with longer grace periods closer to 24 months. Therefore, there is a difference in approach. But again, each organization or each bank has its own strategy. I am only highlighting how we have been doing business.

從年比來看，成長率超過 110%。我想強調的是，這是一個成長迅速且品質很高的投資組合。我們一直以來透過這些管道提供的貸款寬限期較短，不到 12 個月，而我們看到市場上提供的貸款寬限期較長，接近 24 個月。因此，方法有所不同。但是，每個機構或每家銀行都有自己的策略。我只是想強調一下我們一直以來的經營方式。

Moving on to margins, I will focus first on NII with clients. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that considering the effect of working capital, the NII grew by 0.5% in the quarter, or BRL200 million. Average volume, product mix, and spreads had very minor effects.

接下來談談利潤率，我首先會專注於客戶的淨利息收入。我想提請您注意，考慮到營運資本的影響，本季淨利息收入增加了 0.5%，即 2 億雷亞爾。平均銷量、產品組合和鋪貨量的影響非常小。

Additionally, there was a calendar effect. We know that this quarter had more calendar and working days with five additional working days and one extra calendar day, which impacts liabilities and assets differently in the way we disclose the managerial results.

此外，還存在日曆效應。我們知道，本季日曆日和工作日都比上一季多，多了五個工作日和一個日曆日，這會對我們揭露管理業績的負債和資產產生不同的影響。

In the Latin America and others line, we consider wholesale bank structured operations, and this is where we always expect some volatility. I would like to highlight that the previous quarter was very strong in terms of margin. We had already mentioned that it was an exceptional quarter, so it is natural that we see a smaller effect of these structured operations when comparing quarter over quarter. It is important to emphasize that in the year over year comparison, which is perhaps the best indicator to analyze our ability to generate NII with clients, we posted robust growth of 13.4%.

在拉丁美洲及其他地區，我們考慮批發銀行結構化運營，而我們總是預期這方面會出現一些波動。我想強調的是，上一季的利潤率非常強勁。我們之前已經提到過，這是一個特殊的季度，因此，在比較季度業績時，這些結構化操作的影響較小也是很自然的。值得強調的是，在同比比較中（這或許是分析我們為客戶創造淨利息收入能力的最佳指標），我們實現了 13.4% 的強勁成長。

Moving on to NIM first, on a consolidated basis we see a slight decrease. Nothing to be concerned about. NIM is very much in line with what we posted in the first quarter of 2025. As I mentioned, the previous quarter was exceptional. The risk-adjusted NIM also performed this way. The risk-adjusted NIM was still higher than in the first quarter, but slightly lower than in the second quarter with a minor variation.

首先來看淨利差，綜合來看略有下降。沒什麼好擔心的。NIM與我們在2025年第一季發布的數據非常吻合。正如我之前提到的，上個季度的情況非常特殊。經風險調整後的淨利差也表現出同樣的趨勢。經風險調整後的淨利差仍高於第一季，但略低於第二季度，波動幅度不大。

For the annualized average margin in Brazil, this effect is even clearer. We posted significant NIM growth in Brazil, 9.5%, 9.3%, 9.8%, and 10% in 2Q25, which was when I emphasized that it had been an exceptional quarter. Now we have returned to a very high level of 9.8%, exactly the same NIM as in the first quarter of 2025. The risk-adjusted NIM reached 6.7%, which is even better than the NIM posted in the first quarter of 2025, but showing a slight decrease quarter over quarter. This demonstrates the strength and quality of our NII with clients.

對於巴西的年化平均利潤率而言，這種影響更加明顯。我們在巴西實現了顯著的淨利差成長，2025 年第二季分別為 9.5%、9.3%、9.8% 和 10%，當時我強調這是一個非同尋常的季度。現在我們已經恢復到 9.8% 的高水平，與 2025 年第一季的淨利差完全相同。經風險調整後的淨利差達 6.7%，甚至優於 2025 年第一季的淨利差，但季減。這體現了我們NII在客戶中的實力和品質。

Now, regarding NII with the market, although the numbers may appear very stable, we know this is the hardest line to estimate in our budget exercise given the inherent volatility behind these figures. What did we highlight at the beginning of the year? First, we provided guidance indicating that NII with the market would be between BRL1 billion and BRL3 billion for the year. The main effect, as I mentioned previously, is that the capital index hedge costs would increase throughout the quarters. This was the only number we could be more certain about when we disclosed the 2025 guidance and it is evident when we look at the accumulated results.

現在，關於市場上的淨利息收入，雖然這些數字看起來可能非常穩定，但我們知道，鑑於這些數字本身的波動性，這是我們在預算編制過程中最難估算的指標。年初我們重點強調了什麼？首先，我們提供的指導表明，今年的市場淨利息收入將在 10 億至 30 億雷亞爾之間。正如我之前提到的，主要影響是資本指數對沖成本將在各個季度內增加。這是我們公佈 2025 年業績指引時唯一能夠比較確定的數字，這點從累積結果中可以明顯看出。

We delivered BRL3.5 billion in market NII for the first nine months of 2024 and the capital index hedge cost was of BRL900 million in the first nine months of 2025. Market NII was BRL2.7 billion down from BRL3.5 billion, but the main effect was the cost for hedging the capital index which doubled in the period. In fact we have performed very well. Our NII with the market is very strong, very stable with a high alpha generation and a very accurate transfer price that avoids transfers between NII with clients and with the market.

2024 年前九個月，我們實現了 35 億雷亞爾的市場淨利息收入；2025 年前九個月，資本指數對沖成本為 9 億雷亞爾。市場淨利息收入從 35 億雷亞爾降至 27 億雷亞爾，但主要影響是資本指數對沖成本在此期間翻了一番。事實上，我們表現得非常好。我們與市場的淨利息收入非常強勁、非常穩定，具有很高的超額收益和非常精確的轉移價格，避免了與客戶和市場之間的淨利息收入轉移。

Our disclosures have been very transparent and in respect with that I will mention an update in our 2025 guidance. The only line that we will adjust is NII with the market. For obvious reasons, it is a mechanical adjustment, a small one. I'll address this at the end of this presentation.

我們的資訊揭露一直非常透明，基於此，我將在2025年的業績指引中提及一些更新內容。我們唯一會根據市場狀況調整的指標是淨利息收入（NII）。顯而易見，這只是一個機械調整，而且調整幅度很小。我將在本次演講的最後談到這一點。

Moving on to commissions, fees and results from insurance, I would like to make a few highlights. The first one is in the payments and collections revenues, which grew by 3.7% in the quarter and 8.0% compared to the third quarter of 2024. For the nine-month period, growth was 6.1%. What is the main highlight? We no longer refer to REDE as a separate acquiring business or company as REDE is fully integrated into our operations. Nevertheless, we believe it is important to highlight the total transaction volume, which reached BRL258 billion, an important increase of 6.6% in the quarter. This demonstrates our ability to integrate businesses and focus on client profitability. The total transaction volume grew by 12.8% year over year.

接下來，我想談談保險的佣金、費用和結果，並重點介紹幾點。第一個成長點是支付和收款收入，該季度成長了 3.7%，與 2024 年第三季相比成長了 8.0%。九個月期間，成長率為 6.1%。主要亮點是什麼？我們不再將 REDE 視為獨立的收購業務或公司，因為 REDE 已完全融入我們的營運中。不過，我們認為有必要強調總交易額，該交易額達到 2,580 億雷亞爾，比上一季成長了 6.6%。這體現了我們整合業務並專注於客戶獲利能力的能力。總交易量較去年同期成長12.8%。

Another highlight is the revenue from advisory services and brokerage which posted a significant growth of 33.7% in the quarter, but a decline when comparing the accumulated results for the nine-month period. I remind you that last year was by far our best year in DCM, so there is a market volume effect. Our market share demonstrates that we continue to present a very solid performance. We are leaders in fixed income origination and distribution with a 25% market share. In other words, one quarter of the market passes through the bank and we have originated BRL91 billion over the nine-month period.

另一個亮點是諮詢服務和經紀業務的收入，該季度實現了 33.7% 的顯著增長，但與前九個月的累積業績相比有所下降。我提醒各位，去年是我們DCM業務迄今表現最好的一年，所以有市場交易量效應。我們的市場份額表明，我們繼續保持著非常穩健的業績。我們在固定收益產品發行和分銷領域處於領先地位，市佔率達 25%。換句話說，四分之一的市場資金都流經該銀行，我們在九個月內發放了 910 億雷亞爾的貸款。

Another very relevant highlight is what we have been able to achieve year after year in our insurance business. We posted sound growth of 5.7% quarter over quarter and 17.8% year over year.

另一個非常值得關注的亮點是我們保險業務年復一年的成就。我們實現了穩健成長，環比成長 5.7%，年成長 17.8%。

Results for the first nine months were up by 17.1%. This growth is well distributed between earned premiums, which were up by 14%, and the recurring result up by 17.3%. This performance has been very important for the bank's value creation, for expanding profitability, and for generating value across all our business channels. I am deeply pleased and satisfied with the evolution of our insurance business.

前九個月的業績成長了17.1%。這一增長在已賺取保費（增長 14%）和經常性收益（增長 17.3%）之間分佈較為均衡。這項業績對於銀行的價值創造、提高獲利能力以及在所有業務管道中創造價值都非常重要。我對我們保險業務的發展感到非常高興和滿意。

Now, regarding asset quality, I will be objective in my remarks because as you will see in the credit indicators, the level of stability in our portfolio is truly impressive. Short term delinquency is very well controlled. I will focus on these figures when discussing large corporate performance in the next slide. Actually, to make it easier for you, let me zoom in on this information.

現在，關於資產質量，我將客觀地發表評論，因為正如您將在信用指標中看到的那樣，我們投資組合的穩定性水平確實令人印象深刻。短期犯罪控制得非常好。在下一張投影片中討論大型企業績效時，我將專注於這些數據。實際上，為了方便您理解，讓我放大這些資訊。

In Brazil, for short term delinquency, you can see that the 15-90 days NPL for individuals remained absolutely stable, as did it for the SMEs portfolio. There was an increase in this indicator for large corporates, but this is a specific case of a client that has been in stage three for many quarters with more than adequate provisions and we felt that it was time to let it move into delinquency and follow the regular flow.

在巴西，就短期違約而言，你可以看到個人 15-90 天不良貸款率保持絕對穩定，中小企業貸款組合也是如此。大型企業的這項指標有所上升，但這是一個特殊案例，該客戶已連續多個季度處於第三階段，撥備充足，我們認為現在是時候讓它進入違約階段，並遵循正常的流程了。

That is why I always say I do not like to track this indicator for large corporates. It has no correlation to either the cost of credit or the balance sheet effects. You will see that it has no impact on stage coverage, on migration between stages, nor on the cost of credit. So, it is only a representation of a client that was already properly provisioned in stage three and moved into delinquency. There is no cause for concern here. Again, this is a specific client. For long term delinquency, which does not have this impact, you will note that there is great stability in the NPL indicators for Brazil, for Latin America, and considering all regions.

這就是為什麼我總是說我不喜歡追蹤大型企業的這個指標。它與信貸成本或資產負債表影響均無相關性。你會發現它對階段覆蓋率、階段間遷移、信用成本都沒有影響。所以，這只是一個在第三階段已經正確配置並進入違約階段的客戶的範例。這裡沒有什麼值得擔憂的。再次強調，這是個具體的客戶。對於長期拖欠，由於沒有這種影響，你會注意到巴西、拉丁美洲以及所有地區的壞帳指標都非常穩定。

When we break down the Brazilian operation by individuals, SMEs, and large corporate, we also see great stability. We have been able to grow with high quality within our strategy, maintaining a portfolio with a truly impressive level of provision and high quality. We have followed the asset quality indicators released for each industry, and when we compare our performance for each product against the industry figures, we note that we have performed much better than the market in terms of delinquency. In fact, in several products, we have seen significant increases in long-term delinquency while NPL in our portfolio remains very stable.

當我們把巴西的商業活動按個人、中小企業和大型企業細分時，我們也看到了強烈的穩定性。我們憑藉自身的策略實現了高品質的成長，維持了投資組合的充足供應和高品質。我們一直在關注各行業發布的資產品質指標，並將我們每種產品的表現與行業數據進行比較後發現，我們在違約率方面的表現遠優於市場。事實上，在一些產品中，我們看到長期違約率顯著上升，而我們投資組合中的不良貸款率仍然非常穩定。

We do not usually disclose our delinquency rate breakdown by product, but I can assure you that in addition to being at a much lower level than has been reported by industry, we continue to operate with great stability while we have seen delinquency accelerate in the industry, especially the long term delinquency. Once again, I emphasize our long term vision, our capital allocation at the right price and our daily and active risk management and I believe the results speak for themselves.

我們通常不會按產品揭露違約率細分情況，但我可以向您保證，除了我們的違約率遠低於行業報告的水平外，我們還保持著良好的營運穩定性，而我們看到行業的違約率，特別是長期違約率，正在加速上升。我再次強調我們的長期願景、以合適的價格進行資本配置以及我們日常積極的風險管理，我相信結果會說明一切。

Moving on to the stages, I will go straight to the portfolio and coverage in stage two where you will note remarkable stability. Any volatility given the size of our portfolio does not generate or produce any material impact. Therefore, everything is within expectations with no points of concern and the same applies to stage three.

接下來進入階段部分，我將直接進入第二階段的投資組合和覆蓋範圍，您會注意到其中顯著的穩定性。鑑於我們投資組合的規模，任何波動都不會產生任何實質影響。因此，一切都在預期之內，沒有任何需要擔心的地方，第三階段也是如此。

If you look at both the portfolio in stage three and the coverage in stage three, you will also see only very marginal variations. It is clear that this flow is dynamic because we do not migrate exposures to stages based solely on delinquency. Delinquency is one variable as I showed you when we disclosed the implementation of Resolution 4,966, if you add up the non-performing portfolios overdue by more than 90 days and compare it to the portfolios in the stages, the numbers are quite different because we look at prospective risk in this way, migrations due to asset quality deterioration are adjusted well before the client actually becomes delinquent.

如果你看一下第三階段的投資組合和第三階段的覆蓋範圍，你也會發現只有非常小的變化。很明顯，這種流程是動態的，因為我們不會僅根據違約情況將風險敞口轉移到不同的階段。正如我在披露第 4,966 號決議實施情況時向您展示的那樣，違約率是一個變數。如果您將逾期超過 90 天的不良投資組合加起來，並將其與處於不同階段的投資組合進行比較，您會發現數字截然不同，因為我們以這種方式看待潛在風險，由於資產品質惡化而導致的遷移會在客戶實際違約之前進行充分調整。

This is the case for large corporates. For example, as I mentioned earlier regarding this specific client that has been in stage three for many quarters with a performing loan. So, I believe that this proactive and forward-looking dynamic is very important when managing our balance sheet. Our performance reflects this.

大型企業的情況就是如此。例如，正如我之前提到的這位客戶，他的貸款已經處於第三階段好幾個季度了，而且貸款表現良好。因此，我認為這種積極主動、具有前瞻性的動態對於管理我們的資產負債表至關重要。我們的業績也反映了這一點。

Now I will briefly address two topics; the renegotiated portfolio and the cost of credit. I will first comment on the renegotiated portfolio. If you look at the credit-only portfolio, it continues to decline in what we call the renegotiated portfolio. We break down what refers to the restructured portfolio and what refers to the renegotiated portfolio. But the most important thing is that the ratio of the renegotiated portfolio over the loan book continues to fall. In other words, the nominal value is declining even though the loan book is growing.

現在我將簡要地談談兩個主題：重新協商的投資組合和信貸成本。我首先對重新談判後的投資組合發表看法。如果只看信貸組合，就會發現它在我們所謂的重新協商組合中持續下降。我們將分別解釋哪些是指重組後的投資組合，哪些是指重新談判後的投資組合。但最重要的是，重新談判後的貸款組合佔貸款總額的比例持續下降。換句話說，儘管貸款規模在成長，但名目價值卻在下降。

I believe that at some point we will reach an inflection, and we may even see the nominal values rise. That's why it's important to analyze the ratio to compare nominal values over the portfolio that has been growing over all these quarters.

我相信在某個時候我們會達到轉折點，甚至可能會看到名義價值上升。因此，分析該比率以比較這些季度以來不斷增長的投資組合的名義價值非常重要。

On the right hand side, we present the figures considering 4,966 resolution which considers credit and securities. The story is the same. The amounts are higher because in this view we include securities, but we also see nominal declines over the period and the ratio also shows a very healthy performance even better than in the credit-only view. This shows the high quality and strength of our portfolio.

在右側，我們展示了考慮了 4,966 個決議的數據，這些決議考慮了信用和證券。故事還是一樣。由於該觀點將證券納入其中，因此金額較高，但我們也看到在此期間名目金額有所下降，而且該比率也顯示出非常健康的表現，甚至比僅考慮信貸的觀點還要好。這體現了我們投資組合的高品質和實力。

The cost of credit has been flat. We have been delivering a very consistent cost of credit and in relative terms, we also have a very solid result. When we look at the figures for the nine months, despite the increase from BRL25.9 billion to BRL27.2 billion, the ratio fell from 2.7% to 2.6%., even though we see industry indicators deteriorating, our portfolios have been performing very well. I believe that risk management is our competitive advantage and it's something we strongly believe in.

信貸成本一直保持穩定。我們一直保持著非常穩定的信貸成本，而且從相對意義上講，我們的業績也非常穩健。當我們查看前九個月的數據時，儘管資金從 259 億雷亞爾增加到 272 億雷亞爾，但該比率從 2.7% 下降到 2.6%。儘管我們看到行業指標正在惡化，但我們的投資組合表現得非常好。我認為風險管理是我們的競爭優勢，也是我們深信的原則。

Changing gears to OpEx, we posted an increase in non-interest expenses in Brazil of 4.5% in the quarter. Remember that this is a quarter that historically is pressured by the union agreement and wage raises. We also have a volume effect with the operation performing very well. So, this is what we call good cholesterol, especially when we talk about volumes.

轉而關注營運支出，本季我們在巴西的非利息支出增加了 4.5%。請記住，這個季度歷來都會受到工會協議和薪資上漲的壓力。此外，該操作的運作效果也非常好，帶來了顯著的銷售成長。所以，這就是我們所說的好膽固醇，尤其是談到膽固醇含量的時候。

The first nine months year over year growth in Brazil was 8.5% and 8.9% on a consolidated basis, including Latin America. All of this is absolutely in line with our expectations, which is the most important thing. It was what we expected with the significant investments being made in the operation with a strong focus on top line generation. And all of this is ultimately reflected in the efficiency ratio. It is not just about cost for the sake of cost. At the beginning of next year, I will share with you a very transparent view on costs for the future.

前九個月，巴西經濟年增 8.5%，包括拉丁美洲在內的整體經濟年增 8.9%。這一切都完全符合我們的預期，這才是最重要的。正如我們預期的那樣，公司在營運方面進行了大量投資，並高度重視營收成長。而這一切最終都會反映在效率比率上。這不僅僅是為了降低成本而降低成本。明年年初，我將與大家分享一個非常透明的未來成本展望。

But the most important thing is to look at the trend. We closed the efficiency ratio for this nine-month period at 36.9% in Brazil and at 38.8% on a consolidated basis. I remind you this is the lowest ratio in the industry when compared to universal banks, peers. In the calculation of this ratio, we include all the bank's expenses and do not leave any negative effects out of the indicator so that the number is very consistent and transparent for the market. So, I believe this is a very relevant performance. If we look at the figures from 2019 to 2025, the path has been very healthy for the bank's operational leverage and efficiency.

但最重要的是要看趨勢。我們在巴西的九個月期間的效率比率為 36.9%，合併後的效率比率為 38.8%。我提醒您，與綜合銀行和同業相比，這是業內最低的比例。在計算該比率時，我們納入了銀行的所有支出，並且不會將任何負面影響排除在指標之外，因此該數字對市場來說非常一致且透明。所以，我認為這是一場非常精彩的表演。如果我們看一下 2019 年至 2025 年的數據，就會發現該銀行的營運槓桿和效率發展勢頭非常健康。

Next, let's talk about capital. First, just to clarify, we started the quarter at CET1 of 13.1%. As we can see, profit generation in the quarter was very strong with a positive contribution to capital of 80 basis points. As I mentioned, we are running with a profitability level of nearly 27% in Brazil. Interest on capital provisioned and IOC maximization results in a payout slightly above 30% and leads to a capital consumption of about 40 basis points. This is already included in the ratio.

接下來，我們來談談資本。首先，需要澄清的是，本季初我們的 CET1 為 13.1%。從我們可以看到，本季的獲利能力非常強勁，對資本的貢獻為正80個基點。正如我之前提到的，我們在巴西的獲利水準接近 27%。資本準備和IOC最大化產生的利息導致收益略高於30%，並導致約40個基點的資本消耗。這部分已經包含在比例中了。

Next, we see risk weighted assets consumes 20 basis points, and finally, we have other prudential and equity adjustments that are practically flat. All in all, CET1 moved from 13.1% to 13.5% in the quarter. We add AT1 to the CET1 and we reached a Tier 1 capital ratio of 14.8% in September 2025.

接下來，我們看到風險加權資產消耗了 20 個基點，最後，其他審慎和權益調整實際上保持不變。總的來說，CET1在本季從13.1%上升至13.5%。我們將 AT1 加入 CET1 中，並在 2025 年 9 月達到了 14.8% 的一級資本充足率。

It's interesting to note that we no longer have any perpetual instruments issued in foreign currency. In other words, 100% of our AT1 instruments are issued in Brazilian reais at a much more competitive cost. So, this liability management we carried out was very important for the bank's capital management.

值得注意的是，我們目前已不再發行任何以外幣計價的永續債券。換句話說，我們 100% 的 AT1 債券都是以巴西雷亞爾發行，價格更具競爭力。因此，我們所進行的這項負債管理工作對銀行的資本管理非常重要。

Finally, as I have already mentioned, the only line to be updated in the 2025 guidance is market NII. It is a minor adjustment. We originally expected between BRL1 billion and BRL3 billion for this line and that was our best expectation. It is great that we perform better than we expected and given that we only have a couple of months to account for, we are updating our market NII expectation and narrowing the range. Thus, our best expectation for market NII is between BRL3 billion and BRL3.5 billion.

最後，正如我之前提到的，2025 年指導方針中唯一需要更新的項目是市場淨利息收入。只是一個小小的調整。我們最初預計該生產線的銷售額將在 10 億至 30 億雷亞爾之間，這已經是我們最好的預期了。令人欣喜的是，我們的業績比預期要好，考慮到我們只有幾個月的時間可以考慮，我們正在更新市場淨利息收入預期並縮小範圍。因此，我們對市場淨利息收入的最佳預期在 30 億雷亞爾至 35 億雷亞爾之間。

So, this table consolidates 2025 guidance except for the market NII, every other line has been reaffirmed, which demonstrates our ability to consistently predict results for the year and share them with you at the beginning of the year.

因此，除市場淨利息收入外，該表匯總了 2025 年的業績指引，其他所有項目均已重申，這表明我們有能力持續預測年度業績並在年初與您分享。

Of course, volatility is expected throughout the year. In the loan book we have the FX impact, so this is always something difficult to project. The fact is that we have very solid discipline and transparency and a high degree of predictability, I believe the most important thing is to have predictive capacity to be able to forecast and manage with a long-term vision.

當然，全年都會有波動。貸款帳簿中存在外匯影響，因此這始終是一個難以預測的問題。事實上，我們擁有非常紮實的紀律、透明度和高度的可預測性。我認為最重要的是具備預測能力，能夠以長遠的眼光進行預測和管理。

With that, I will conclude my presentation. I would like to thank you once again for your participation. Now I will join Gustavo and Gabriel for the Q&A session. This was another solid and consistent quarter with very high profitability and strong results. Most importantly, behind these numbers is all the transformation the bank has been undergoing for many years. We are at a very advanced stage both in digital and cultural transformation and above all as a universal organization.

我的演講到此結束。我再次感謝各位的參與。現在我將和古斯塔沃、加布里埃爾一起參加問答環節。這是又一個穩健且持續的季度，獲利能力非常高，業績強勁。最重要的是，這些數字背後是這家銀行多年來經歷的所有變革。我們在數位化和文化轉型方面，尤其是在作為一個全球性組織方面，都處於非常先進的階段。

I believe the strength of Itaú Unibanco is being this universal bank striving to be a leader in every segment in which we operate. And we have managed to be leaders in several of them. As I always say, we have a very balanced portfolio with solid and consistent results in both wholesale and retail businesses which have been decisive for value creation.

我認為伊塔烏聯合銀行的優勢在於，它是一家全能型銀行，力求在我們營運的每個領域都成為領導者。而且我們在其中幾個領域都取得了領先地位。正如我常說的，我們的投資組合非常均衡，批發和零售業務都取得了穩健且持續的業績，這對價值創造起到了決定性作用。

And most importantly, we are a 100% client centric organization. All of our NPS and quality indicators have advanced materially. At the end of the day, the result is a consequence of a solid, strong franchise with a client centric and long-term vision. We do not make decisions to maximize in the short term, nor do we grow the portfolio at the wrong price. We must maintain strong discipline in capital allocation and returns and naturally the results come in the long run. That is what I wanted to share with you.

最重要的是，我們是一家百分之百以客戶為中心的企業。我們所有的淨推薦值和品質指標都取得了實質進步。歸根結底，這結果是穩固、強大的特許經營體係以客戶為中心、具有長遠眼光的結果。我們不會為了追求短期利益最大化而做出決策，也不會以錯誤的價格擴大投資組合。我們必須嚴格控制資本配置和回報，結果自然會在長期內顯現。這就是我想和你們分享的。

I will now join the others for the Q&A session. See you shortly.

現在我將和其他人一起參加問答環節。一會兒見。

(Operator Instructions) Bernardo Goodman, XP. Bernardo

（操作說明）Bernardo Goodman，XP。貝納多

Good morning, everyone. Gustavo, Milton, Gabriel, thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on the results. We're getting close to the end of the year. The bank should get into that phase of the discussion of the scenario for 2026. And the scenario macro is mixed. The activity is firm, but with high interest rates and a credit market that is more selective.

各位早安。Gustavo、Milton、Gabriel，謝謝你們給我這個機會。恭喜你取得好成績。一年即將結束。銀行應該進入討論2026年發展前景的階段。場景巨集是混合的。市場活動穩健，但利率高企，信貸市場也更挑剔。

I wanted to understand how that context affects your strategic decisions for the bank for next year, specifically in the growth of portfolio efficiency and capital allocation. Itaú gets at a turning point of the cycle with discipline and profitability, but maybe now the challenge is to balance, to grow in an efficient way and calibrated way in an environment that still demands caution. How would you do this balance today?

我想了解這種背景如何影響您明年為銀行製定的策略決策，特別是關於提高投資組合效率和資本配置的決策。Itaú 憑藉紀律和盈利能力迎來了周期的轉折點，但也許現在的挑戰在於如何在仍然需要謹慎的環境中保持平衡、以高效和有控制的方式發展。今天你會如何平衡這筆帳目？

Thank you, Bernardo. Thank you for your participation in our call.

謝謝你，貝爾納多。感謝您參與我們的電話會議。

Well, let me start by saying by having a strong discipline of not anticipating the guidance for 2026, because we are building the numbers in an advanced phase, I would say, but there are still some stages that we need to do. But directionally speaking, we have found opportunities to grow. I think that regardless of the scenario, as you have said, it has its challenges. The challenges are more because of the uncertainty, and not so much the uncertainty. It is difficult to have absolute convictions in an uncertain scenario.

首先，我要強調的是，我們必須嚴格遵守不去預測 2026 年的指導方針的原則，因為我們正在建立相關數據，雖然可以說已經進入了後期階段，但還有一些階段需要完成。但從發展方向來看，我們已經找到了發展的機會。我認為，無論情況如何，正如你所說，這都存在挑戰。挑戰更多是由於不確定性造成的，而不是不確定性本身。在充滿不確定性的情況下，很難有絕對的信念。

So, a few elements that are important. First, opportunities. They exist. We will continue to strengthen our franchises in all the segments that we want to grow with quality in a long term vision with the portfolio management. Our capacity of reaction today, it's much larger than it was before. So, we are going to get into 2026. I can guarantee that with a balance that is extremely robust, very well, very well provisioned and with strength and capacity, solid capital base (inaudible) inertia that is very favorable, that really helps.

所以，以下幾個要素很重要。首先，是機遇。它們確實存在。我們將繼續加強我們在所有希望實現長期高品質成長的細分市場的特許經營權，並透過投資組合管理來實現這一目標。我們今天的反應能力比以前大得多。所以，我們即將進入2026年。我可以保證，擁有極其穩健、準備充分、實力雄厚、資本基礎穩固（聽不清楚）且慣性非常有利的平衡，這真的很有幫助。

So, our capacity to react, regardless of the scenario, whether if it's an adverse scenario or a scenario that is more positive, is enormous. This is important. This is key. Because evidently in the past with the legacy systems, you made a few credit decisions and risks and that took some time to get into production. Given the times of implementation, with all the modernization of the bank, the decisions are daily, and the implementation is immediate.

因此，無論情況如何，無論是不利的情況還是更積極的情況，我們的反應能力都是巨大的。這很重要。這一點至關重要。因為很明顯，過去使用傳統系統時，您做出了一些信用決策和承擔了一些風險，而這些決策和風險需要一些時間才能投入生產。鑑於銀行的現代化進程，決策每天都在進行，而執行則是立即進行的。

So, every decision is done in the day. We do not have to wait 24 hours for a decision, a reaction. The guidance will be based on the best information available at the moment that I present the guidance for you. And evidently, the guidance is not written in stone. We need to give a great predictability for the market. We could be very predictable through the market and showing a lot of consistency in the guidance with a discipline of execution that I judge very well.

所以，所有決定都是當天做出的。我們不必等待24小時才能得到決定或回應。我將根據我向您提供指導時所能獲得的最佳資訊來製定指導。顯然，這些指導原則並非一成不變。我們需要為市場提供高度的可預測性。我們可以透過市場保持高度可預測性，並在業績指引方面展現出很強的一致性，同時執行力也很強，我認為這方面我們做得非常好。

And the guidance is the best information of the guidance at the time of the publication. Depending with the year, and with more challenges, the reactions can be different than what was planned. And we will let you know as soon as the information is available. And we have discussed this with Itaú Day. We are rethinking the businesses up ahead. Businesses with a maturity level, with great maturity, but it is the strength of the all -- that gives us a lot of strength to grow with quality and capital discipline, bringing good results to the shareholders.

該指南是發佈時所能提供的最佳資訊。根據年份和挑戰的不同，實際反應可能會與預期有所不同。一旦有相關訊息，我們會立即通知您。我們已經和 Itaú Day 討論過這個問題。我們正在重新思考未來的業務發展方向。企業發展成熟度很高，但真正強大的是整體實力——這賦予了我們強大的力量，使我們能夠以品質和資本紀律實現成長，為股東帶來良好的業績。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

Renato Meloni，自治。

Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on the results. I would like to talk about the segment of these small companies, specifically in the [lines] government. I wanted to understand how do you see the trajectory? Can you grow in the same level or are you going to see some limitations whether if it is government, risk and how do you see the trajectory of the NPLs as these are expiring?

謝謝您給我這個機會。恭喜你取得好成績。我想談談這些小公司中的一小部分，特別是政府部門。我想了解您如何看待這項發展軌跡？您能否維持目前的成長水平，還是會面臨一些限制，例如政府監管、風險等方面的限制？您如何看待即將到期的不良貸款的發展軌跡？

Very good, Renato, thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for the report. All of us spent many, many hours reading our reports last night. So, we are very firm in the wholesale companies -- in the retail. We have an important rhythm of growth with the governmental programs. We have grown with a lot of quality, good capital allocation and management, choosing the right client and the right way of growing within a value proposition that is unified. So, we could assume a role of leadership that is important since the inception of these programs. And we have learned to manage these programs in an intelligent way.

非常好，雷納托，謝謝你給我這個機會。謝謝你們的陪伴。感謝您提交的報告。昨晚我們所有人都花了很長時間閱讀報告。所以，我們在批發公司──也就是零售業──都非常堅定。我們與政府專案保持著重要的成長節奏。我們憑藉著高品質的產品、良好的資本配置和管理，以及選擇合適的客戶和正確的發展方式，在統一的價值主張框架內實現了成長。因此，我們可以承擔起自這些計畫啟動以來就十分重要的領導角色。我們已經學會如何以明智的方式管理這些項目。

It's important -- of course, it depends on the program. We have heard a lot about the perennity of the program. It has a role that is very important, specifically in those clients of small size and we have the budget discussions. Is it going to exist in the way that it was while there was the exchanges as we call it in the market, we seized the first loss because we had more space to leverage and then returned about BRL100 billion to the market. So, it is a process that is very important.

這很重要——當然，這取決於具體項目。我們聽說了很多關於該計畫長期性的說法。它發揮著非常重要的作用，尤其是在那些規模較小的客戶中，我們需要進行預算討論。它會像以前那樣存在嗎？當時市場上有交易，我們稱之為交易所，我們抓住了第一次虧損，因為我們有更多的槓桿空間，然後向市場返還了約 1000 億雷亞爾。所以，這是一個非常重要的過程。

And now it will depend a lot from the standpoint of the government with the allocation of resources and the lines, these are the most efficient allocations and it generates leverage and the multiplicator on the first [loss] is a high level, expressive level of clients in this program. So, our operation, we need to have a capacity of growing with a segment always delivering the same product for the client. And it is a governmental product. We are going to provide services for the client, the government, and also [cross sell] the flow, generating a good profitability level over the last years.

現在，這很大程度上取決於政府的資源分配和路線，這些是最有效的分配方式，它能產生槓桿效應，並且對第一個[損失]的乘數效應是該計劃中客戶數量的高水平、高表現水平。因此，我們的營運需要具備成長能力，同時始終為客戶提供相同的產品。而且它是政府產品。我們將為客戶、政府提供服務，並交叉銷售相關產品，在過去幾年中實現了良好的盈利水平。

We've discussed this and we see space for growth looking up ahead, growing once again without letting go of the discipline of the capital allocation, the value creation, and also doing this at the right time and the right price. We still see good opportunities in the retail, and what I bring that is relevant, our GenAI 100% powered platform, and we've gone through a process that is important by the evolution of this platform. We need to have a preponderant role in our strategy.

我們已經討論過這個問題，我們看到了未來成長的空間，在不放棄資本配置和價值創造紀律的前提下，再次實現成長，同時也要在合適的時機以合適的價格做到這一點。我們仍然看到零售業的良好機遇，而我帶來的正是相關的，那就是我們100%由GenAI驅動的平台，我們已經經歷了一個對該平台發展至關重要的過程。我們需要在策略中發揮主導作用。

So, we saw that this is an avenue of growth. We also were in an important process of evolution of the platform learnings, improving, having an impeccable experience. We are reaching a good maturity level in this platform. It has a new role in the strategy of the [EU] retail so we can service the clients 100% digital in a very efficacious, efficient way with mature models that have evolved with these clients. It will have a role that is preponderant -- and the retail from now on and we are going to talk about the evolutions all throughout the next quarters.

所以，我們看到這是一個發展途徑。我們也正處於平台學習、改進和完善的重要發展過程中，力求提供完美體驗。我們的平台已經發展到相當成熟的階段。它在[歐盟]零售策略中扮演著新的角色，因此我們可以以非常有效率的方式，透過與這些客戶共同發展的成熟模式，100% 為客戶提供數位化服務。它將在零售業中扮演至關重要的角色——從現在開始，我們將討論接下來幾季的發展演變。

Gustavo Schroden, Citibank Cameroon SA.

古斯塔沃‧施羅登 (Gustavo Schroden)，喀麥隆花旗銀行。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for the opportunity and the time. Congratulations on the results and the consistency. It's impressive. I wanted to hear from you about the client margins. Let's just call it an accommodation vis a vis, the dynamic that has happened, we had some effects of spreads, that contributed negativity.

各位早安。感謝您給我這次機會和寶貴時間。恭喜你們取得的成績和始終如一的出色表現。令人印象深刻。我想聽聽你對客戶利潤率的看法。我們姑且稱之為一種適應，相對於已經發生的這種動態，我們受到了一些價差的影響，這加劇了負面影響。

There is also the issue of Latin America. I wanted to understand if that's the level of mean with the -- that it's reasonable with the client that we're going to work from on, or do you think that there is an issue that is specific for the third quarter to interrupt that trajectory of growth and maybe reaching stability? I wanted to understand the margin expanded so much. We've discussed a few points last year, so we need to understand, is there anything else more that we should get in terms of expansion, or do we get to a level that is more stable with the client?

還有拉丁美洲的問題。我想了解一下，這個平均值是否合理——對於我們即將合作的客戶來說是否合理，或者您認為第三季是否存在某個特殊問題，會中斷成長軌跡，甚至可能導致穩定？我想了解利潤率為何成長如此之大。去年我們已經討論過一些要點，所以我們需要了解，在擴張方面是否還有其他需要改進的地方，或者我們是否應該達到一個與客戶更加穩定的水平？

Great to see you, Gustavo.

見到你真高興，古斯塔沃。

And I'm going to give you two results -- two answers. First is in regards to the NIM of this quarter. It's important to highlight a few issues. In the last quarter, you remember that we discussed that we have a strong NIM, very good expansion. The NIM itself has also a balance that is very important when we look at the effect of the second quarter to the third quarter, from the first to the second.

我將給出兩個結果——兩個答案。首先是關於本季的淨利差。有幾個問題需要重點強調。上個季度，你們應該還記得我們討論過，我們的淨利差很強勁，擴張情況非常好。NIM 本身也具有非常重要的平衡性，當我們檢視第二季對第三季的影響，以及從第一季到第二季的影響時，這一點尤其重要。

So, this big jump, so to speak, has some explanations when we look at the third quarter. The first is that in the past quarter there was an important increase in the financing in the world of credit cards and that generates a seasonality that is more of a conflict of a calendar than anything else. So, there was the effect that was favorable towards NIM and the NII of the last quarter. So, there is a second aspect. Given the level of profitability that we have today and the level of margin that we've reached, we have the expansion level.

所以，這種所謂的大幅成長，當我們查看第三季時，就能找到一些解釋。首先，上個季度信用卡融資大幅成長，這造成了一種季節性波動，與其說是季節性波動，不如說是日曆衝突造成的。因此，上一季的淨利差和淨利息收入都受到了有利影響。所以，還有第二個面向。鑑於我們目前的獲利水平和已達到的利潤率水平，我們已經具備了擴張的條件。

We realize that a few operations are more apparent. The volatility is more perceived. So, in the last quarter we anticipated a few results of the wholesale structured operations that would have happened in the third and fourth quarter. And that happened -- that brought the NIM to this threshold. There was an acceleration of the previous NIM that would have been softer if it happened this quarter.

我們意識到有些操作更加顯而易見。人們更容易感受到這種波動性。因此，在上個季度，我們預計第三季和第四季將會出現一些批發結構化營運的結果。於是，這種情況發生了——這使得 NIM 達到了這個閾值。上一季淨利差加速成長，如果發生在本季度，成長速度會放緩。

There is a caps issue as well. The caps are important, specifically in two portfolios, the INSS portfolio and the (inaudible), the check and given -- and the credit card also, the interest rates are higher, the liabilities are higher. This generates an effect in the caps operation. You pressure the margin when that happened. And There is a fourth effect, and this is the last one, which is the Flex one.

此外，還存在大小寫問題。上限很重要，尤其是在兩個投資組合中，INSS 投資組合和（聽不清楚），支票和給予——還有信用卡，利率更高，負債也更高。這會對電容的運作產生影響。這種情況發生時，你會對邊際收益施加壓力。還有第四種效果，也是最後一種，即 Flex 效果。

Flex is the way that we anticipate in a way -- and we discussed that in the margins with the client, there is the result of the REDE and the Flex. The result of MDR and the anticipation without the cost of funding will be with the revenue with services.

Flex 是我們在某種程度上預料到的方式——我們與客戶討論過，在細節上，REDE 和 Flex 的結果就是如此。MDR 的結果以及無需資金成本的預期將透過服務收入來實現。

There is a certain logic because we separated this way. These operations were so relevant, right at the beginning of the year, I'm going to bring you a few reviews of how we demonstrate to you in the MD&A, the managerial results -- we're going to do a few changes. I'm going to be giving you a few very transparently how are the changes and how is that compared with the year of 2025 adjusted so you do not lose the comparability base.

我們這樣分開是有一定道理的。這些操作非常重要，就在年初的時候，我將向大家介紹我們在管理層討論與分析 (MD&A) 中如何向大家展示管理成果——我們將進行一些改變。我將非常透明地向你們說明這些變化是如何發生的，以及與 2025 年相比是如何調整的，這樣你們就不會失去可比性基礎。

The Flex with the increase of the cost of funding and with the increase of the cost of penetration of the product that generated a negative effect in the margin for this quarter. And this is the structural [debt is worth] first, how do I see this? We need to see the annual base. This is the best way of looking at the NII and the NIM evolution of the bank. We did a review upwards with a margin with clients at the beginning of the year. Then we changed the guidance. Now, our best expectation is to work close to the center of the guidance until the end of the year.

由於融資成本增加以及產品滲透成本增加，Flex 在本季的利潤率受到了負面影響。首先，這是結構性債務的價值，我該如何看待這個問題？我們需要查看年度基數。這是觀察銀行淨利息收入 (NII) 和淨利差 (NIM) 演變的最佳方法。年初時，我們與客戶進行了利潤率上調的審查。然後我們修改了指導方針。現在，我們最好的預期是，在年底前繼續在指導方針的核心框架內工作。

So, that means an expansion in the fourth quarter, we can work close to the center of the guidance. That means that from the center of the guidance I am discussing a 12.5% growth, maybe a little less. It really depends on the performance in the fourth quarter. Still early to discuss, but it is something that we can expect.

所以，這意味著第四季將實現擴張，我們可以朝著預期目標的中點努力。這意味著，根據我所討論的指導意見，成長率預計為 12.5%，甚至可能略低。這主要取決於第四季的表現。現在討論這個問題還為時過早，但這確實是我們可以預料到的事情。

You can imagine that we are growing with the portfolios that are growing, the thresholds that we are growing, expanding our margin in over 12%, simplifying year on year. You can have a good idea of the strength of the growth of the margin. And looking at the relatives, the NIM, which is the central point of your question, we imagine a certain stability from now on. We did an expansion that is important and the NIM grows. The NIM that I really like to follow up is the adjusted NIM to the risk.

您可以想像，隨著投資組合的成長，隨著我們門檻的提高，我們的利潤率逐年增長超過 12%，業務也隨之發展壯大。您可以大致了解利潤成長的強勁程度。從親屬關係來看，NIM（這是您問題的核心），我們預期從現在開始會有一定的穩定性。我們進行了一次重要的擴張，淨利也在成長。我真正想關注的淨利差是調整風險後的淨利差。

Generating NIM is not difficult, depending on the quality that you grow with, product that you grow, and the mix that you grow. But a great deal of this growth, you return with [PDT], so, that's why we have a good expansion throughout this quarter. The adjustment of the quarter was 10 basis points; in Brazil, 20 basis points. The last quarter was outside of the curve. We have a natural trend now, and we should work with this level of margin, specifically adjusted to the risk looking up ahead.

產生淨利潤並不難，這取決於你種植的作物品質、你種植的產品以及你種植的組合。但其中很大一部分成長都來自 [PDT]，所以，這就是為什麼我們本季實現了良好的擴張。本季調整幅度為 10 個基點；在巴西，調整幅度為 20 個基點。最後一個季度表現異常。我們現在處於一種自然趨勢，我們應該在這個保證金水準上運作，並根據未來的風險進行調整。

So, this is a structural of the bank and working to expand the NII. As we grow the bank, the portfolios, the businesses, and with a balanced portfolio and with a drop in the interest rates, we always bring that slide that we show that our sensitivity to the [CDI] is much less than some analysts think.

所以，這是銀行的結構，旨在擴大淨利息收入。隨著我們銀行、投資組合和業務的成長，以及投資組合的平衡和利率的下降，我們總是會拿出那張投影片來證明，我們對[CDI]的敏感度遠低於一些分析師的預期。

So, in the end, we have a structural drop in the interest rates, our capacity of balancing and growing in the other lines that balance from the interest rate, it rebalances the game. So, we have the expansion in next year without one interest, anticipate the guidance. We're going to see the NII all throughout the year expanding. For a NIM that is more stable with the volatility within what is reasonable.

所以，最終，利率結構性下降，我們透過平衡和成長其他與利率平衡相關的因素來恢復平衡，從而重新平衡了市場。因此，我們明年將進行擴張，目前沒有任何利益相關方，請期待相關指引。我們將看到NII在全年持續成長。對於波動性在合理範圍內的、較穩定的淨利差而言。

So, it's not a straight line. There is some volatility expected, but within a threshold that is expected with what we've observed.

所以，這不是一條直線。預期會出現一些波動，但波動幅度在我們觀察到的預期範圍內。

Marcelo Mizrahi, Bradesco BBI.

馬塞洛·米茲拉希 (Marcelo Mizrahi)，布拉德斯科 BBI。

Hi everyone, thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on the results. Very solid. I guess the question goes along the way of capital, an organic generation of capital very positive in the quarter with an equity 13.5%. So, the question of last year, the threshold that the bank was after the profit sharing was 12.3%. When we look at the perspective of growth from now on, and we have the other challenges, I wanted you to discuss and you always discuss that threshold of 11.5% and 12%, which would be the level that you are feeling comfortable keeping that threshold. How would be this threshold be now that we will be the NIM of the bank that we would keep after the dividend distribution, the payouts.

大家好，感謝大家給我這個機會。恭喜你取得好成績。非常結實。我想這個問題與資本有關，本季資本的自然成長非常積極，權益資本佔比達到 13.5%。所以，去年的問題是，銀行追求獲利分成的門檻是 12.3%。當我們展望未來的成長前景，以及我們面臨的其他挑戰時，我想請你討論一下，你也總是會討論11.5%到12%這個閾值，這是你覺得可以接受的維持這個閾值的水平。現在，如果我們將以分紅、派息後保留的銀行淨利差（NIM）作為衡量標準，那麼這個門檻會是多少呢？

Thank you, Marcelo. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for the initial words. The central point of the capital is to reinforce a few points for you. First, our policy for the profit sharing, the payout, didn't change. So, we are faithful to our policy. Of course there is some subjectivity because there is a lot of analysis that we do before the decision making process of how much dividend will be distributed.

謝謝你，馬塞洛。謝謝您給我這個機會。感謝您最初的鼓勵。首都的中心目的是向您強調以下幾點。首先，我們的利潤分成政策，也就是分紅政策，並沒有改變。所以，我們始終堅持我們的政策。當然，其中存在一些主觀因素，因為在決定分配多少股息之前，我們會進行大量的分析。

Of course, we are only reinforcing -- we work with the risk appetite at the threshold at the level of the board with the appetite of not working with less than 11.5% with CET1. This is what is defined at the board of the bank. We from the board -- we work with the buffer of a 0.5%. So, we will go to 12% because we never want to work close to the minimum because you know in those situations you run the risk of losing good opportunities of growing, investing, making decisions that at that time can consume capital in a more accelerated way, regardless of the capacity that is very strong of the bank of generating capital.

當然，我們只是在強化——我們在董事會層級將風險偏好設定在門檻，即 CET1 佔比不低於 11.5%。這是銀行董事會所規定的。我們董事會－我們留有 0.5% 的緩衝空間。所以，我們將達到 12%，因為我們永遠不想接近最低水平，因為你知道，在那種情況下，你可能會失去良好的成長、投資和決策機會，而這些決策在當時可能會以更快的速度消耗資本，無論銀行的資本創造能力多麼強大。

So if you look, and we discussed in the presentation, in this quarter we got [0.8%] of CET1 before the provision of the repurchasing of shares and the profit sharing. So, what do I see up ahead? Our objective is not retaining the excess of capital, but we do not have an objective of dividends. We have an objective of capital allocation, with the discipline of allocation, the expectation of creation of value, and making decisions on the long term, always strengthening and always growing the organization.

所以如果你看一下，正如我們在簡報中討論的那樣，本季我們在提列回購股份和利潤分成之前獲得了[0.8%]的CET1。那麼，我前方看到了什麼呢？我們的目標不是保留多餘的資本，但我們也沒有發放股利的目標。我們的目標是進行資本配置，秉持配置的紀律，期望創造價值，並做出長期決策，不斷加強和發展組織。

So, we are looking at the future. We are seeing what is the budget, our capacity of growth, the credit risk, the market risk, the operational risk, reminding you that at the beginning of this year we have the phase-in of operational risk, (inaudible) and credit risk in a few operations that are structured in the wholesale world. We got the first quarter paying 45 bps of capital because of regulatory issues changes. There is another three years, this phase-in is 2028. There are three installments without interest rates of paying these effects. Of course we take that into consideration for the plan.

所以，我們正在展望未來。我們正在評估預算、成長能力、信用風險、市場風險和營運風險。提醒各位，今年年初，我們將逐步引入營運風險（聽不清楚）和信用風險，這些風險主要集中在批發領域的一些業務。由於監管問題的變化，我們第一季支付了 45 個基點的資本。還有三年時間，這個過渡期要到 2028 年。這些費用分三期支付，無需支付利息。當然，我們在製定計劃時會考慮到這一點。

We look at the capacity of growth, the capacity of capital allocation in a profitable way, the capacity of absorbing the regulatory effects, whatever they are. Within this projection, we do the capital that is exceeding and we will take a proposal for the Board of Directors. The Board of Directors will deliberate on the distribution of the dividends.

我們會檢視成長能力、以獲利方式配置資本的能力、吸收監管影響的能力，無論這些影響是什麼。在此預測範圍內，我們將處理超出預算的資金，並向董事會提交提案。董事會將審議股利分配方案。

But as I told you, this is not a dividend that is extraordinary. It is a dividend that is additional, as this has been our recurring policy over the last years. We do not see any reason to do any changes in that policy in the way that it is designed today. And in fact, the market will be informed. Through the communication protocols and we follow down the line the (inaudible) protocol. We are compliant with the publication on the dividends and comments that we are compliant with all the marketing publishing norms.

但我告訴你，這並不是一筆特別豐厚的股息。這是額外的分紅，因為這是我們過去幾年來的慣例政策。我們認為沒有理由對該政策目前的設計方式進行任何改變。事實上，市場將會知曉此事。透過通訊協議，我們沿著（聽不清楚）協議一路走下去。我們遵守有關股息和評論的發布規定，並聲明我們遵守所有行銷發布規範。

Eduardo Rosman, Banco BTG Pactual SA.

愛德華多·羅斯曼 (Eduardo Rosman)，BTG Pactual SA 銀行。

Hi, good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. In the Investor Day, you discussed that you want to improve the efficiency of the bank. Well, in a material way, the whole, the retail, you're going to forgo a few revenues to grow more. So, I wanted to know the opinion of Milton. Do you think that this movement is a defense or attack movement?

您好，早安。謝謝您給我這個機會。在投資者日上，您談到希望提高銀行的效率。從實質上講，整個零售業為了實現更大的成長，將會放棄一些收入。所以，我想知道米爾頓的看法。你認為這場運動是防禦性運動還是進攻性運動？

Hi, Rosman, great to see you. Thank you for the wonderful words. I read your report. Thank you for the quality and depth of the report that you just published yesterday.

嗨，羅斯曼，很高興見到你。謝謝你的讚美之詞。我已閱讀您的報告。感謝您昨天發布的這份高品質、高深度的報告。

Let me tell you, at the beginning of the year, I discussed this, the presentation, and I would bring you a clear vision of how our efficiency level is composed because we tend to oversimplify the vision of cost of (inaudible) of the bank of the expenses that do not stem from interest rates. So, we simplify where we try to, do comparisons with other players that are more specific in specific segments. So, first, the bank has a portfolio of businesses that is very relevant. So, every one with a level of maturity at a different industry level that were Some with strong investments, others with an efficiency agenda that is deeper and so on.

讓我告訴你，年初的時候，我討論過這個問題，也就是演示文稿，我會向你清晰地展示我們的效率水平是如何構成的，因為我們傾向於過度簡化銀行成本（聽不清）的視角，忽略那些並非源於利率的費用。因此，我們簡化了我們的目標，並嘗試與在特定領域更具針對性的其他玩家進行比較。首先，該銀行擁有非常相關的業務組合。因此，每個企業在產業發展階段的成熟度各不相同，有些企業投入巨資，有些企業則更注重提高效率等等。

So, it is important to understand the whole. Because of a number, we do not make precipitous conclusions, but our responsibility is to demonstrate this to you in the way that we publish. We break down the retail wholesale bank. You can see in the MD&A that vision. The best breakdown is therem but we need to be more precise, showing the strategic way up ahead. Gabriel has been the leader of an important work of efficiency in the bank.

所以，理解整體很重要。雖然數據有限，但我們不會草率下結論，而是有責任透過我們的發表方式向您證明這一點。我們來分析零售批發銀行。從管理階層討論與分析中可以看到這個願景。最好的分析方法是…，但我們需要更精確一些，展現未來的策略方向。加布里埃爾一直是銀行效率提升工作的重要領導者。

And efficiency is something that we need to do every day. It is not a responsibility neither of the area of Gabriel in an isolated way or the commitment of a specific area. No, everybody in their own circumstances, everybody in the bank has to look every day and seek the efficiency level, the evolution that we have had throughout the time shows our discipline with the generation of top line and the control of costs so that this will be evolving and we have better leverage and massified -- it seems that it is more attack than defense, because it is not high income. In the high income you have an efficiency level that is higher than what we observe in the bank as a whole.

提高效率是我們每天都需要做的事情。這既不是加布里埃爾地區單獨承擔的責任，也不是某個特定地區的承諾。不，每個人在各自的情況下，銀行裡的每個人都必須每天努力提高效率水準。我們一路走來的發展歷程表明，我們在創造營收和控製成本方面保持著嚴謹的態度，這樣才能不斷發展，讓我們擁有更好的槓桿和規模——看起來更像是進攻而不是防守，因為這不是高收入。高收入者的效率水準高於我們在整個銀行觀察到的效率水準。

But in an operation that has a cost of service that is different because the cost of serving the mid-to-high range clients is different than the platform that is 100% digital. The motto of service can evolve. We understand that. So, (inaudible) Andre was discussing at Itaú Day a bit about evolution. We want to get most of the clients remotely maybe over the next few years. We're going to continue to do this with a lot of investors.

但是，在營運中，由於服務中高端客戶的成本與 100% 數位化平台的成本不同，因此服務成本也會有所不同。服務的座右銘是可以演變的。我們明白這一點。所以，（聽不清楚）安德烈在伊塔烏日上談到了進化論。我們希望在未來幾年內，大部分客戶都能遠距工作。我們將繼續與眾多投資者進行這項工作。

So, Itaú Day was with the idea of telling you what are the refreshers, how we are reviewing strategically the businesses looking ahead and the natural persons and the companies. So, I can tell you that we are in the execution model. We've started the execution of these projects that are very important for the future of the bank. And I am certain that this will generate a lot of value, not only because of the capacity of growing our portfolios, but we will go through a leverage that is more efficient for the segments where the cost of service is determinant for the sustainability of the business model.

所以，Itaú Day 的目的是告訴大家有哪些值得關注的動態，我們如何從策略角度檢視企業的未來發展，以及個人和公司的發展。所以，我可以告訴你，我們目前處於執行模式。我們已經開始執行這些對銀行未來發展至關重要的項目。我確信這將創造很多價值，不僅是因為我們有能力擴大我們的投資組合，而且我們將透過更有效的槓桿作用，尤其是在服務成本對商業模式的可持續性起決定性作用的領域。

So, we see at the basis of the pyramid in the segments that are more massified that if we do not work with an efficiency level that is very low, to do this, we cannot do this in the brute force. You need to do this with a lot of intelligence. You need to have the armamentarium, the technological platform structure so you can service your client with a lot of efficiency in these segments. The consequence naturally is to go to an operational leverage where the cost of service is much lower, therefore you need to be more competitive, specifically in the capacity of absorbing the cost of credit.

因此，我們看到在金字塔底部那些更集中的部分，如果我們不以非常低的效率水平工作，為了做到這一點，我們無法透過蠻力做到這一點。你需要運用很多智慧來做這件事。你需要擁有相應的裝備和技術平台結構，才能在這些領域有效率地為客戶提供服務。結果自然是要達到營運槓桿水平，服務成本要低得多，因此你需要更有競爭力，尤其是在吸收信貸成本的能力方面。

When you have a high efficiency level, efficiency index, your margin post cost is very low to absorb the losses in a segment that tends to be more volatile. Evidently, we will renounce a few segments when we do these decisions. And specifically those that are not resilient in cycles that are more acute. But still there is a high -- a big important opportunity Itaú Branches, as we call it, (inaudible) had an evolution in the results that is very important.

當你的效率水準、效率指數很高時，你的利潤率（扣除成本後）會非常低，難以吸收波動性較大的細分市場的損失。顯然，我們在做出這些決定時，會放棄一些部分。尤其是那些在更劇烈的周期性波動中缺乏韌性的群體。但仍存在一個很高的機會——一個非常重要的機會。我們稱為 Itaú Branches 的（聽不清楚）結果發生了非常重要的變化。

We have managed to converge this vision of top line end cost to have an operation that is more efficient and if throughout the time we need to self-disrupt a few things that we have done thus far and forego some revenue to accelerate the evolution of cost, but increasing the lifetime value of the clients committedly and serving the clients with the right value proposition, we will do so. And this is the execution model that I mentioned at the beginning of the year. I will be able to give you some more color on that.

我們已成功地將這一願景與最終成本結合，從而實現更有效率的營運。如果在這個過程中，我們需要自我顛覆一些我們迄今為止所做的事情，並放棄一些收入來加速成本的演變，但同時致力於提高客戶的終身價值，並以正確的價值主張服務客戶，我們將這樣做。這就是我在年初提到的執行模式。我稍後會給你更多細節。

Daniel Vaz, Safra Bank.

Daniel Vaz，薩夫拉銀行。

A follow up on the question of (inaudible) and the capital and dividends. The year, if we consider the generation of capital in the fourth quarter and the adjustments that are based in January 1 of operational risk [499], it should be close to the 13.5 threshold of now tier one. We're getting to the end of the year and there are a few companies that are listed on the taxation of dividends. There is the discussions of the shareholder of anticipating the payout. So, you can do a timing -- anticipating the timing, and the excess capital can be serviced better.

關於（聽不清楚）以及資本和股利的問題的後續問題。如果考慮到第四季度的資本產生以及基於 1 月 1 日營運風險的調整 [499]，那麼這一年應該接近目前一級資本的 13.5 門檻。一年即將結束，有一些公司面臨股息稅的問題。股東們正在討論提前獲得分紅的問題。所以，你可以把握時機──預測時機，這樣就能更好地利用多餘的資金。

Given your excellence in the profitability and consequently the generation of the capital of the bank, it's the only thing that will generate a debate. How do you think about this issue? Would it make sense to anticipate the statement for the Brazilian IRS and to seize this opportunity?

鑑於您在獲利能力和由此產生的銀行資本創造方面的卓越表現，這才是唯一能引發爭論的事情。你對這個問題有什麼看法？提前獲取巴西國稅局的聲明並抓住這個機會是否明智？

Thank you, Daniel. Thank you for the comments. Great to see you.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。感謝您的評論。很高興見到你。

In fact, you discussed a point that we know and we've been following this discussion of the legislative taxation changes, the payouts changes or issues being discussed. We're following very closely, and of course, we have a fiduciary profile that we see the changes in regulatory context changes. We will see the evolution should we have any relevant new facts. Certainly, we will do our analysis, we will make our decisions and we will inform the market as soon as a decision is made by the board of directors of the bank.

事實上，您討論的這一點我們都知道，我們一直在關注有關立法稅收變化、支付變化或相關問題的討論。我們正在密切關注，當然，作為受託人，我們也會關注監管環境的變化。如果有任何相關的新事實，我們將觀察事態發展。當然，我們會進行分析，我們會做出決定，一旦銀行董事會做出決定，我們會立即通知市場。

Now follow this closely. The policy of dividends still there is still here. We will fulfill our fiduciary duties and if there is any changes in the natural course of what we are used to doing because of any new facts, we will take it to the board and we will [deliberate and once it's deliberated], we will communicate to the market. We will follow very closely the regulatory evolution of the legislative changes.

請仔細聽我說。分紅政策依然有效。我們將履行受託責任，如果由於任何新情況導致我們習慣的做法發生任何變化，我們將提交董事會審議，審議完畢後，我們將向市場公佈。我們將密切關注立法變革帶來的監管演變。

Yuri Fernandes, JP Morgan.

尤里‧費爾南德斯，摩根大通。

Hi, good morning. Congratulations on the results. Thank you for the opportunity. We need to ask you about the growth of retail and getting into the investor day theme. You discussed there that you expected that the retail portfolio can double over the next five years and we see a growth that is timid, 1% quarter-quarter. It is a timid growth that has a lot of nuances. If we look at in the class personally that credit cards are growing well, some segments of consumer finance that are growing well and some lines such as INSS kind of weaker.

您好，早安。恭喜你取得好成績。謝謝您給我這個機會。我們需要詢問您有關零售業成長以及投資者日主題的問題。您在那裡提到，您預計零售業務組合在未來五年內可能會翻一番，但我們看到的成長卻很緩慢，每季只有 1%。這是一種謹慎的成長，其中包含許多細微差別。如果我們從個人角度觀察，信用卡業務發展良好，消費金融領域的某些細分市場發展良好，而像INSS這樣的一些業務則發展較為疲軟。

Milton, when should we see an acceleration in the portfolio of retail? I know it's not immediate. There is the issue of doubling, but we're not going to see the portfolio that get into what is implied. If you can comment on growth for retail, that would be great.

米爾頓，我們什麼時候才能看到零售業務組合加速成長？我知道這不會立竿見影。雖然有翻倍的問題，但我們不會看到投資組合達到隱含的水準。如果您能就零售業成長發表一些看法，那就太好了。

Thank you. Great to see you once again. Thank you for the question.

謝謝。很高興再次見到你。謝謝你的提問。

We still are firm. Our purpose and ambition in retail and individuals and the companies, well I told you that is an aspiration. It's not a guidance. It's an aspiration that is present. The ambition of growing, we have a lot of opportunities for growth specifically for the more resilient publics where we have the growth and quality. That's why we open the numbers of UniClass and Personalité, so you can have a vision of how we grew strongly in the high income, the de-risking in the portfolios that are less resilient.

我們立場依然堅定。我們在零售業、個人和公司中的目標和抱負，嗯，我告訴過你，那隻是一種願景。這不是指導意見。這是一種一直存在的願望。我們渴望發展，我們有很多發展機會，尤其是在那些更具韌性的公眾群體中，我們擁有成長和品質。這就是為什麼我們要公開 UniClass 和 Personalité 的數據，以便您能夠了解我們在高收益領域如何強勁成長，以及在抗風險能力較弱的投資組合中如何降低風險。

A great deal of it was concluded and now what we have is more of a dynamic that is natural of making choices. Where do we grow and where do we reduce? This is of the nature of credit itself. You are choosing credit, you are choosing where you are going to grow. Which quality and which segment do you see more concerns or signs of warning that you can reduce in the aggregate. There are still opportunities for growth in the retail, both individuals and companies. We will translate that into numbers once we bring to the guidance and the overview up ahead.

很多事情已經塵埃落定，現在我們所擁有的是更自然、更有活力的選擇過程。哪些方面需要成長，哪些方面需要減少？這就是信用本身的本質。你選擇的是信貸，你選擇的是你的發展方向。您認為哪些品質和哪些環節有更多值得關注的問題或預警訊號，可以整體上加以改善？零售業仍有發展機遇，無論是個人或公司。我們將在後續的指導和概述中把這些轉化為數字。

We are very excited with the evolution. It's evident that there is a scenario of more uncertainties next year. We're never going to get the ambition aspiration before a good risk management and capital allocation. We have a tradition of good navigation sailing through turbulent waters if they come up.

我們對這一發展感到非常興奮。顯然，明年將面臨更多不確定因素。如果沒有良好的風險管理和資本配置，我們就永遠無法實現雄心壯志。我們擁有在湍急水域航行的良好航海傳統。

Our portfolio has never been so resilient to face all the challenges. Once the opportunities are clear and we understand that they are, we're going to grow with quality in these segments. A lot of spaces to be occupied, all the migration of [Juanitao] brings relationships that are closer, you know, the clients that before we only had a superficial relationship. All that dynamic shows the size of the opportunity.

我們的投資組合從未如此強大，足以應付所有挑戰。一旦機會明確，並且我們認識到這些機會確實存在，我們將在這些領域實現高品質的成長。有很多空間需要填補，[Juanitao] 的所有遷徙都帶來了更緊密的關係，你知道，那些以前我們只有表面關係的客戶。所有這些動態都顯示了機會的巨大規模。

I am optimistic, really. I followed very closely the evolution of the individuals and the companies in retail and very excited about the future. I think that here we have results that are important and that will be harvested in all dimensions in time. But I rather deliver than over promise. I am optimistic. There is a risk of execution, there is circumstances, there is a macro scenario. Let's follow how we evolve with the interest rates, inflation, unemployment rates. Everything influences the decision making process for risk.

我真的很樂觀。我密切關注零售業個人和公司的發展演變，對未來充滿期待。我認為我們在這裡取得了一些重要的成果，這些成果將在各個方面得到體現。但我寧願兌現承諾，也不願誇下海口。我持樂觀態度。有執行風險，存在環境因素，存在宏觀情勢。讓我們關注利率、通貨膨脹率和失業率的變化趨勢。所有因素都會影響風險決策過程。

An important information. If everything is constant, probably we would have worked with a cost of credit that was lower than the cost of credit that we're going to close the year throughout the year. It is natural with our model you see the indicators PB and LGB of your clients by forward looking for the macro scenario. This is part of our models for credit concession. We are recalibrating these models through the year. It brings more provisioning in regards to what is imagined over the beginning of the year.

重要資訊。如果一切保持不變，我們今年的信貸成本可能會低於我們最終結算的信貸成本。透過我們的模型，您可以預先觀察宏觀情景，從而自然而然地看到客戶的 PB 和 LGB 指標。這是我們信貸優惠模式的一部分。我們將在年內不斷調整這些模型。它為年初的設想提供了更多保障。

We reinforced specific cases where we thought that it would make sense. We were never so well provisioned to delivering possibly the center of the guidance, our best expectation with the cost of credit. We will deliver indicators of credit with a lot of quality, reinforcing the provisions as the models are -- as the forward looking, specifically for the macro, is adjusted and we are going to turn the year ready to occupy the space that we need to occupy. So it's exciting what is up ahead.

我們針對一些我們認為有必要的具體案例進行了強化。我們從未如此充分地做好準備，以提供可能的核心指導，這是我們對信貸成本的最佳預期。我們將提供高品質的信貸指標，加強撥備，因為模型正在調整——特別是針對宏觀經濟的前瞻性調整，我們將為新的一年做好準備，佔據我們需要佔據的市場空間。所以，未來令人興奮。

Again, it is a race. It is not a 100 meter dash, it's a marathon. Do not wait for a kicker of 15.8. If you've done the math for 2030, this is not what we're discussing, but the trend is very positive.

這又是一場競賽。這不是百米短跑，而是馬拉松。不要等待15.8的踢球手數據。如果你計算過2030年的數據，你會發現這不是我們討論的重點，但趨勢非常正面。

[Eduardo Nishio]

[愛德華多·西尾]

Good morning, Gustavo, Milton. Congratulations on the result. I have a follow-up of [Rosman] in regard to efficiency. The mass that after the neobanks became a segment that is very challenging. So, I need to understand what motivated Itaú to get into the segment in a more aggressive way.

早安，古斯塔沃，米爾頓。恭喜取得這樣的成績。我還有關於效率方面羅斯曼的後續問題。新銀行出現後，大眾市場成為一個極具挑戰性的領域。所以，我需要了解是什麼促使伊塔烏以更積極的方式進入這個領域。

Was it the younger target audience? What do you see that is different now from a few years back that, saying no to that segment was more obvious. And now, also continuing, the efficiency. As you've said, you have the smallest level of the banks. Can you improve that level?

是針對較年輕的目標客群嗎？你覺得現在和幾年前有什麼不同？以前拒絕那部分客戶會更明顯。現在，效率也將持續提高。正如你所說，你們的銀行等級最低。你能提高這個水準嗎？

You're getting into a journey of cost cutting, so to speak. Can you get to a level of 30%, how long it would take, and how does that discuss how do you -- how can you work with a massified journey that is challenging.

可以說，你即將踏上一段削減成本的旅程。你能達到 30% 的水平嗎？需要多長時間？以及這如何討論你——你如何應對充滿挑戰的大規模旅程。

Thank you for the initial words. Great to see you once again.

感謝您最初的鼓勵。很高興再次見到你。

Look. I'm going to try and rephrase your question because I think it needs context. We never renounced effectively a segment of low income. We always sought to mechanisms to service these clients in different formats from what we see today.

看。我打算換個方式表達你的問題，因為我覺得它需要一些背景資訊。我們從未真正放棄過低收入群體。我們一直尋求以不同於今天所見的方式為這些客戶提供服務的機制。

In the past, how do we service this public? Through the partnerships with the retailers. We've grown because here there is a value proposition that is adequate with the cost of service that is adequate and a risk that is palatable to be assumed and sustainable throughout time.

過去，我們是如何服務這個公眾群體的？透過與零售商的合作。我們之所以能夠發展壯大，是因為這裡的服務成本合理，價值主張也合理，風險是可以接受的，而且這種發展是可持續的。

We have a volume that is relevant of clients that are considered massified, specifically when you recalibrate the incomes within our portfolio. It's millions and millions of clients that are serviced by the bank, but could be better serviced, whether from the standpoint of experience in the digital channels with the super app or credit.

我們擁有大量被認為是大眾化的客戶，尤其是在重新調整投資組合中的收入時。這家銀行服務數以百萬計的客戶，但無論是從超級應用程式等數位管道的體驗，還是信貸方面，都可以提供更好的服務。

So, we service these clients, we have a relationship with these clients. When we stratified by income, I always say that there are clients that are massified, that are targets for the bank because they are stable, they are resilient in cycles. There are several profiles or personas and its public that are very resilient, and these are clients that we really focus.

所以，我們為這些客戶提供服務，我們與這些客戶建立了關係。當我們按收入分層時，我總是說，有些客戶群非常龐大，是銀行的目標客戶，因為他們很穩定，在經濟週期中具有很強的適應能力。有一些用戶群及其公眾形象非常堅韌，這些正是我們重點關注的客戶。

The retirees, for example, of INSS, they can have lower incomes, but it's a very stable product public for the long-term. Our INSS portfolio is one of the biggest one in the market. This is one example, and it shows that there was a process of digitalization that was relevant of the clients through the years.

例如，INSS的退休人員收入可能較低，但對於長期公共事業來說，這是一個非常穩定的產品。我們的INSS投資組合是市場上最大的投資組合之一。這是一個例子，它顯示多年來，數位化進程與客戶息息相關。

And the new technology allows to service these clients in a different way with things that we couldn't do in the past now. And now the scalability is not given by the volume and the capacity of processing of the mainframes. It's given more by having a high-tech technology that has a cost of service that is very low. So if that evolved, and many of these clients were digitalized, there is a way of servicing these clients differently in a more sustainable way.

新技術使我們能夠以不同的方式為這些客戶提供服務，做一些我們過去無法做到的事情。而現在，可擴充性不再取決於大型主機的容量和處理能力。它之所以能帶來更多好處，是因為它採用了高科技，而且服務成本非常低。因此，如果這種情況發展下去，許多客戶都實現了數位化，那麼就可以用更永續的方式為這些客戶提供不同的服務。

Because if I advance in the efficiency level and I improve it, my space for absorbing the losses of credit it increases, so I can service clients that are not target because the targets are very well. Even the targets I can increase my exposure and then on target with time given the cost of service they're going to be targets.

因為如果我的效率水準提高，我的吸收信用損失的空間就會增加，所以我可以服務那些並非目標客戶的客戶，因為目標客戶已經做得很好。即使是那些我可以增加曝光度的目標，隨著時間的推移，考慮到服務成本，它們也將成為我的目標。

So, these are clients that can be a relationship of the bank, and I have a universe of being serviced larger as I can service better with a better experience, more fluid, and the cost of service that is much lower. The clients that are massified, the lower income publics. So, this is our vision and should do so. We need to advance.

所以，這些客戶可以成為銀行的長期客戶，我可以為他們提供更優質的服務，更流暢的體驗，以及更低的服務成本，從而為更廣泛的客戶提供服務。目標客戶群是大眾，即低收入公眾。所以，這就是我們的願景，我們也應該這麼做。我們需要前進。

You need to have the digital transformation since we invested a long time with the (inaudible) of the bank, creation of technological modules, the super app that is an embryo of it all. Now we have the way of servicing these clients in a very efficient way with leverage, operational leverage that is different. And your firepower, your capacity of competing in price changes.

我們需要進行數位轉型，因為我們在銀行（聽不清楚）方面投入了很長時間，創建了技術模組，超級應用程式是這一切的雛形。現在我們有了為這些客戶提供高效率服務的方式，並擁有了不同的營運槓桿。還有你的實力，你在價格變動中競爭的能力。

When we see the client in a digital channel with a product that is 100% digitalized, I bring the cost of everything of ready for this specific. I am competitive and I service the clients through the financing companies. And I think that we can have a more full bank relationship with these banks than mono product.

當我們在數位管道中看到客戶，並且其產品已 100% 數位化時，我會把所有針對此特定情況的準備工作的成本列出來。我很有競爭力，並透過融資公司為客戶提供服務。我認為我們可以與這些銀行建立比單一產品更全面的合作關係。

And now I have a full bank to deliver, but in a different way. Totally digital cost of service, much lower and much more scalable in the long-term. And this is our vision of the segment. There is a job to be done. We're going to increase our efficiency level of retail.

現在我有一筆完整的款項要交付，但方式有所不同。完全數位化的服務成本更低，而且從長遠來看更具可擴展性。這就是我們對這個領域的願景。有一項工作要做。我們將提高零售業的效率水準。

Of course, the efficiency level of the bank depends on the capacity of growth of top-line, that binomial of revenue and cost, we still see good opportunities in a direction there's still space for us to evolve, but most importantly, then looking at the hole is looking at the parts.

當然，銀行的效率水準取決於營收成長能力，也就是收入和成本之間的平衡。我們仍然看到一些很好的機會，我們還有發展的空間，但最重要的是，要看清問題的關鍵在於找到問題的各個組成部分。

There are segments where we are benchmark -- global benchmark for the efficiency level. For the payroll loans, it's already -- we have an efficiency level that is first year. We are saying that this is -- no, this is not enough, this is not it. We're going to advance more in other segments than what we are -- than we're going to advance in the whole. The relative of the specifics are going to be much higher than the whole because of the contributions of all the segments.

在某些領域，我們處於行業標竿——效率水準的全球標竿。對於薪資貸款，我們已經達到了第一年的效率水準。我們想說的是──不，這還不夠，這還不是最終結果。我們在其他領域的進步將會比我們整體的進步更大。由於各部分的貢獻，各部分的相對值將遠高於整體值。

Thank you, Nishio, for question.

感謝西尾先生的提問。

Carlos Gomez Lopez, HSBC

卡洛斯·戈麥斯·洛佩茲，匯豐銀行

Thank you, Milton, thank you, Gustavo, and thank you as always for the consistency in the results you make your work -- our work very easy. I have a question about taxes. So we have a situation in which, because of the high IOC, many of the banks are reporting very low effective tax rates. Actually, Itaú was the honorable exception.

謝謝米爾頓，謝謝古斯塔沃，也一如既往地感謝你們始終如一的出色工作，這讓你們的工作——也讓我們的工作——變得非常輕鬆。我有一個關於稅收的問題。因此，由於國際油氣價格高企，許多銀行報告的實際稅率非常低。事實上，伊塔烏是個值得尊敬的例外。

On top of that, we're going to have the accelerated amortization of the different tax as starting next year. Are you concerned that at some point there could be a public policy reaction and try to increase even more the taxation that the banks have in order to increase the cash revenues that they can get from the banking sector. Thank you.

除此之外，從明年開始，我們將加快不同稅項的攤提。您是否擔心在某個時候，公共政策可能會做出反應，試圖進一步提高銀行的稅收，以增加銀行業可獲得的現金收入？謝謝。

Thank you, Carlos, good to see you. I will start with -- thank you for the compliments. Thank you. We take that very seriously. But I'll first start talking about your -- second aspect of your question which is, if we expect to have any change or any increase in taxation for the banks. No, we don't. Of course, there is an important discussion today.

謝謝你，卡洛斯，很高興見到你。首先，謝謝你們的讚美。謝謝。我們對此非常重視。但我首先要談談你問題的第二個方面，那就是，我們是否預期銀行的稅收會有任何變化或增加。不，我們沒有。當然，今天有一個重要的討論主題。

If there is some asymmetries -- fiscal asymmetries between banks and companies, then do exactly the same thing. So if there is any change for payment institutions, we have hedge. If there is four financial companies, non banking financial companies, we have our vehicles. So on a marginal basis, we might see if there is any change in regulation.

如果存在一些不對稱性——銀行和公司之間的財務不對稱性，那麼就採取完全相同的做法。因此，如果支付機構出現任何變化，我們有相應的對沖措施。如果有四家金融公司，非銀行金融公司，我們有辦法應付。因此，從邊緣角度來看，我們可以觀察監管方面是否有任何變化。

But not in a very consolidated basis due to the level of taxes that we pay today, so we don't expect any major change. We might see smaller changes, but in aggregated view, we won't see a relevant impacts in our corporate tax rate. We don't expect that for two reasons.

但由於我們目前繳納的稅款水平，所以不會以非常合併的方式進行，因此我們預計不會有任何重大變化。我們可能會看到一些小的變化，但總體而言，這對我們的企業稅率不會產生實質的影響。我們不這麼認為，原因有二。

First of all, it's the segment in Brazil that mostly have the most relevant corporate tax and when we compare ourselves to any other economy around the globe, you will see that Brazil, it's different from the other ones and we have 45% of corporate taxes and it's very relevant.

首先，巴西的企業所得稅佔比最高，當我們與全球其他經濟體進行比較時，你會發現巴西與其他經濟體不同，我們的企業所得稅佔比高達 45%，這非常可觀。

The government knows that, and I heard the minister of finance say more than once that he knows that the level of taxation of the industry is very high, so I don't expect major changes. But talking about the tax, the effective rate, let me jump in, Gabriel, if you can talk a little bit about our figures, I think it would be nice to share.

政府也知道這一點，而且我不只一次聽到財政部長說他知道該行業的稅收水平非常高，所以我預計不會有重大變化。但說到稅收，也就是實際稅率，讓我插一句，加布里埃爾，如果你能稍微談談我們的數據，我覺得分享一下會很有意義。

Hi Carlos, thank you for your question. As Mino mentioned, the effective tax rate that we had at the beginning of the year. And we mentioned that was around 31.5% and we mentioned that it would converge to the guidance that we have for the year. That's the expectation that you have.

你好，卡洛斯，謝謝你的提問。正如 Mino 所提到的，這是我們年初時的實際稅率。我們提到過，這個數字大約是 31.5%，我們也提到過，它會與我們今年的預期目標趨於一致。這是你的期望。

As you mentioned, the major effect towards the marginal rate that we have in Brazil was 45% to the effective effective tax rate that we see, it's the interest on capital and also some geographies of how the result is among all the different companies that we have. Those are the two major effects, but at the end of the day we are going through the guidance that we had before, and we are converging to that.

正如您所提到的，對巴西邊際稅率的主要影響是 45%，實際稅率也受到影響，這是由資本利息以及不同公司在不同地域的稅率差異造成的。這是兩個主要影響因素，但歸根結底，我們還是要遵循先前的指導方針，並且我們正在朝著那個方向努力。

Antonio Ruette, Bank of America.

安東尼奧·魯埃特，美國銀行。

Thank you for your time. Congratulations on the predictability. I wanted to explore a theme that we've discussed, with the acquiring business. It was very important because of the pressure of the NIM. So, what I want to ask you is, we see the volumes growing in double-digits. It certainly is above any player indicating market share that is increasing sequentially for some time. So, what I wanted to understand is what are the main drivers? Where are you growing? What are the segments and how -- more important, how can you earn this market share in acquirements? Do you have an influence of Itaú apps or is it too soon to talk.

感謝您抽出時間。恭喜你，你的預測非常準確。我想探討我們討論過的一個主題，即收購業務。由於NIM的壓力，這件事非常重要。所以，我想問的是，我們看到銷量以兩位數的速度成長。它無疑高於任何其他競爭對手，這表明其市場份額已連續一段時間呈逐年增長。所以，我想了解的是，主要驅動因素是什麼？你在哪裡種植？細分市場有哪些？更重要的是，如何透過收購來贏得這些市場份額？你對 Itaú 應用有影響力嗎？還是現在談論這個還為時過早？

Hi, Antonio. Great to see. You discussed a point that is very relevant, consistency. The predictability for us has a big value in the way that we see the future, we project our results, and we try to control the levers.

你好，安東尼奧。太好了。你談到了一個非常重要的觀點，那就是一致性。對我們來說，可預測性非常重要，它影響我們看待未來的方式、我們預測結果的方式，以及我們試圖控制各種因素的方式。

Discussing acquiring business, I mean, the result of this was an integration that was very well done in our company business. We closed the capital of Red A in 2012, 13 years later, it's longer than the integration, we can see the results of an operation that is very integrated in the bank. Is there is a specific segment? No, we've grown in the wholesale and the retail, we see share in both.

談到收購業務，我的意思是，最終的結果是公司業務整合得非常成功。我們在 2012 年關閉了 Red A 的資本，13 年後，時間比整合的時間還要長，我們可以看到銀行高度整合的營運成果。是否存在特定細分市場？不，我們在批發和零售領域都取得了成長，我們在這兩個領域都佔據了一定的市場份額。

What is the strategy? The strategy is the bundle to be able to service the client in the best way possible, not with the vision product, but with the flow. Payment and receivable, and REDE is part of the value proposition. And for us to stop seeing REDE as an independent business or a specific product where the price has to be done isolatedly.

策略是什麼？此策略的核心在於以最佳方式服務客戶，不是依靠願景產品，而是依靠流程。付款和應收帳款，以及 REDE 是價值主張的一部分。我們應該停止將 REDE 視為一個獨立的企業或特定產品，並停止將其價格單獨考慮。

Now, regardless of this comment, we are very disciplined to look at the vision of the client and to take care of not renting market share. As I was the CEO of REDE, 2013, 2014, 2015, and we know that a great deal of the invoicing that really moves the point of the chair is concentrated in a big client.

不過，撇開這種評論不談，我們始終秉持嚴謹的態度，關注客戶的願景，並努力避免租賃市場份額。2013年、2014年、2015年，我擔任REDE的首席執行官，我們知道，真正推動公司發展的關鍵發票大多集中在大客戶那裡。

So, it's not difficult to be more aggressive in the pricing below your minimum price of exchange, and then you have a marginal cost that is negative, and then renting market share. That's not sustainable because in the first renewal of the contract, you're going to have to review the price of the market share goes away. Market share, we're very disciplined and price allocation of risk.

因此，在低於最低交易價格的情況下，採取更激進的定價策略並不難，這樣一來，邊際成本就會為負，然後就可以租用市場份額。這種做法不可持續，因為在合約第一次續約時，你必須重新評估市場份額的價格。在市佔率方面，我們非常注重風險的價格分配。

It's not Business. Well, it depends on the segment. You have risk of chargeback, higher, lower, we evaluate the business models. Certainly, we take part on the chains that are sustainable. So, we have a strong discipline, all the PLD selling is important for the management of our business, and we've managed with a valid proposition and quality of service, speed of service, speed of SLA that we have with the clients, we service a great deal of the clients in DZ.

這不是生意。這取決於具體領域。有拒付風險，風險高低取決於我們的商業模式。當然，我們參與了永續發展的產業鏈。因此，我們擁有嚴格的紀律，所有 PLD 銷售對於我們業務的管理都至關重要，我們憑藉有效的方案和優質的服務、快速的服務以及與客戶簽訂的 SLA 協議，為 DZ 的大量客戶提供服務。

We have quicker credit card machines, higher approval rates and we look at the ecosystem of credit cards. We understand the flow of receivables of the client with a lot of speed, so we can do a value proposition that transcends the machine.

我們擁有更快的信用卡刷卡機、更高的審批通過率，我們著眼於信用卡生態系統。我們能夠快速了解客戶的應收帳款流程，因此我們可以提出超越機器本身的價值主張。

So it's a set of things. It's a relationship manager that has training to discuss any issue, including REDE with property in the past that was restricted to specialists with as time goes by, everybody can talk about this, and this gives you scalability and the capacity of servicing your client better and the journey and the experience as an important role.

所以這是一系列事物。這是一位關係經理，他接受過培訓，可以討論任何問題，包括 REDE 與房產相關的問題。過去，這些問題僅限於專家討論，但隨著時間的推移，每個人都可以談論這些問題，這使您能夠更好地擴展服務範圍，更好地服務客戶，並將旅程和體驗視為一項重要的角色。

We see important evolutions in the MPS because it's not an issue just of being competitive. The prices are variable. But what the tenant needs is selling quickly, selling with quality when there is a problem receiving the credit card machine at the speed that they need to not lose invoicing. Half an hour without invoicing is much more costly than an increment in the rate.

我們看到 MPS 發生了重要的變化，因為這不僅僅是競爭的問題。價格會有所變動。但租戶需要的是快速、高品質地完成銷售，因為在收到信用卡機時出現問題，他們需要以所需的速度完成銷售，以免丟失發票。半小時不開立發票的成本遠高於提高費率的成本。

So, they are willing to pay for the right price if they understand that they have the adequate level of service, and this is the work that the legal team has worked with the REDE. The [EMS] has an integrated tap and phone solution for the smaller -- but it doesn't really move the needle in terms of invoicing. Regardless of the high engagement of their clients with the product and of the high volume of invoicing is still very relevant and it's not relevant for the invoicing or market share, but certainly it will be an important lever for the repositioning of the companies BU, that platform that is completely integrated. Thank you.

因此，如果他們認為自己獲得了足夠的服務，他們就願意支付合適的價格，而這正是法律團隊與 REDE 合作所做的工作。[EMS] 為規模較小的用戶提供了整合的點擊和電話解決方案，但在開票方面並沒有真正帶來任何改變。儘管客戶對產品的參與度很高，而且發票數量也很大，但這仍然非常重要，而且與發票或市場份額無關，但可以肯定的是，對於公司業務部門的重新定位而言，這個完全集成的平台將是一個重要的槓桿。謝謝。

Henrique Navarro, Santander.

桑坦德的恩里克·納瓦羅。

Henrique, thank you. Congratulations on the results. That '23 of LOE is brilliant. My question is about the soft guidance for 2030. We've discussed this very strong numbers and to deliver, Itaú should start now next year.

恩里克，謝謝你。恭喜你取得好成績。LOE 的 '23 真是太棒了。我的問題是關於2030年的軟性指導。我們已經討論過這些非常強勁的數字，為了實現這些目標，伊塔烏應該從明年開始著手實施。

So, my question is, how is your mind for the year '26. I imagine Itaú deliver something 7%-8% of growth of portfolio. Do you see a possibility of that growth of portfolio being double, considering a credit cycle that is better? How is your mind for 2026?

所以，我的問題是，你對2026年有什麼想法？我估計 Itaú 能為投資組合帶來 7%-8% 的成長。考慮到信貸週期向好，您認為該投資組合的成長有可能翻倍嗎？你對2026年有什麼想法？

Hi Henrique. Thank you for the initial words. I'm very happy with the profitability level. Given the capital base of the of the bank, this has an important effect. We are very happy. We closed with the ROI in Brazil, and this is very comparable that we see in the industry as a whole.

你好，亨利克。感謝您最初的鼓勵。我對目前的獲利水準非常滿意。考慮到該銀行的資本基礎，這將產生重要影響。我們非常高興。最後我們分析了巴西的投資報酬率，發現它與整個產業的投資報酬率非常接近。

So we are very excited, but once again, we have all the challenges up ahead. A lot of humility. Foot on the ground, the past result is not a guarantee of the future past, and these cannot generate a future accommodation. So, this is our motorway in the bank. About 2026, I'm going to do a few remarks that are important. And our responsibility is to communicate this better. I'm not transferring this responsibility to anybody. It's mine above all.

所以我們非常興奮，但同時，也面臨許多挑戰。非常謙遜。腳踏實地，過去的結果並不能保證未來也會如此，而且這些也無法為未來的安排提供依據。所以，這就是我們在銀行裡的「高速公路」。關於 2026 年，我想發表一些重要的評論。我們的責任是更好地傳達這些訊息。我不會把這項責任轉嫁給任何人。它首先是我的。

So, what we discussed in Itaú today is more aspirational than soft guidance. It's important to do this, to record this because every conversation that we're going to have, everybody is going to look at doubling the portfolio in 2030. So, every time that you do a strategic review of a business, regardless of the business, you have an ambition. You sit at the bar and you say, if everything goes perfectly as I would love to and the price to perfection happens, I'm going to get to this. Can we do it? The levers exist, yes.

所以，我們今天在伊塔烏討論的更多的是願景，而不是軟性指導。這樣做很重要，要記錄下來，因為我們接下來的每一次談話，大家都會談到如何在 2030 年將投資組合翻一番。所以，無論你對哪個企業進行策略評估，你都會有一個目標。你坐在吧台邊說，如果一切都如我所願地完美進行，價格也完美無缺，我就要實現這個願望。我們能做到嗎？槓桿是存在的。

But it depends on a plethora of circumstances, the capacity of execution of plan, value proposition change, everything has to be perfect. So that's the first point. The first statement. The second statement is telling you the following. We're still not going to anticipate the growth in portfolio, but specifically in a year such as 2026 with the uncertainties, I can guarantee that we're not going to show you a portfolio that is growing 15%, which is double what we should grow.

但這取決於諸多因素，例如計劃的執行能力、價值主張的改變等等，一切都必須完美無缺。這是第一點。第一條聲明。第二句話是這麼說的。我們仍然不會預測投資組合的成長，但尤其是在像 2026 年這樣充滿不確定性的年份，我可以保證我們不會向您展示一個成長 15% 的投資組合，這比我們應該成長的幅度高出一倍。

This is important to register ex [examples]. We need to see the breakdown of the segments, and these can change. Imagine a year such as 2026 with a lot of uncertainty, election, you can have more volatility. The central bank can start the cycle of adjustments of monetary policy, but it depends on circumstances that are outside of the central bank, depends on the fiscal, on the expansion of expenditure of the perception of risk of Brazil.

這對於登記前任至關重要。[範例]。我們需要了解各個細分市場的組成，而這些組成可能會改變。想像 2026 年這樣充滿不確定性的一年，例如大選，市場波動性可能會更大。中央銀行可以啟動貨幣政策調整週期，但這取決於中央銀行以外的情況，取決於財政狀況、支出擴張以及巴西對風險的認知。

The cost of capital at the end of the day of Brazil. So, there are an X amount of variables, depending on the external scenario, many variables that are very difficult. I'm not even saying that it's going to be scenario A or B. I'm just going to say that the uncertainty for '26 is higher than it was the uncertainty for '25.

巴西當日的資本成本。因此，根據外部情況的不同，存在 X 個變量，其中許多變量非常難以確定。我甚至都沒說結果會是方案A還是方案B。我只是想說，2026年的不確定性比2025年的不確定性還要高。

It's a normal point for every country that goes through an election process such as the next one. So, that means do not wait for the guidance of a growth of 15%, do not do the math of the CAGR of 15.8 to get the 50%. One, I can tell you is that the strategy is fitting in; two, we are very trusting in our capacity for generation of value.

對於每個經歷選舉過程的國家來說，這都是一個正常階段，就像即將到來的選舉一樣。所以，這意味著不要等待 15% 的成長預期，也不要透過 15.8% 的複合年增長率來計算 50% 的成長。第一，我可以告訴你，這個策略很奏效；第二，我們非常有信心我們能夠創造價值。

In the Retail, the plan, is on track, no route deviations. Next year is an inflection point. We're going to get the low-hanging fruits to buy everything that we've seen, but it's us in our circumstances. We're going to do this with safety, baby steps, so this is a long-term plan. If we get to the future and we do not double the portfolio because the circumstances didn't allow us, we're not going to suffer.

零售方面，計劃進展順利，沒有任何路線偏差。明年是一個轉捩點。我們會先買下那些唾手可得的東西，把我們看到的一切都買下來，但這是我們目前的處境。我們將採取安全穩健的方式，循序漸進地進行，所以這是一個長期計劃。如果到了未來，由於情況不允許而未能將投資組合翻倍，我們也不會遭受損失。

Of course, we would love to do that, but we're not going to guide the ship with the information that we have and the armamentarium for the management is solid, and we're not going to forego on very relevant issues such as risk management, capital location. We're not going to -- we're going to use these instruments which are paramount for the way that we pilot the bank.

當然，我們很想這樣做，但我們不會僅憑現有資訊來指導航行，而且我們的管理手段也很充分，我們不會放棄風險管理、資本配置等非常重要的問題。我們不會—我們將使用這些對我們銀行營運至關重要的工具。

But directionally, it will evolve. The results are starting to be perceived, and I can see that we're going to have -- I'm certain that we're going to share a nice story with you. And I'm generating an expectation, do not expect 15% of the growth of portfolio; otherwise, they're going to get frustrated. We're never going to overpromise, and we're never going to bring numbers that are beyond our capacity.

但從方向上看，它會不斷發展。結果開始顯現，我預感我們將會－我確信我們將與你們分享一個美好的故事。而且我暗示大家不要期望獲得投資組合 15% 的成長；否則，他們會感到沮喪。我們絕不會做出過度的承諾，也絕對不會提出超出我們能力範圍的數字。

Now, the central point, I go back to my answer of the first question. If there is an opportunity of next year, showing that it's a benign scenario, where is risk on, then we will accelerate with speed because our capacity of reaction capital balance, liquidity, business models, and the team highly balance our capacity of turning the key as instantaneous.

現在，回到重點，我再回答第一個問題。如果明年出現機會，表明這是一個良性局面，風險處於有利地位，那麼我們將加速發展，因為我們的反應能力、資本平衡、流動性、商業模式和團隊都高度平衡了我們瞬間啟動的能力。

We do not take more than 24 hours to make a decision and implement them in the bank. This is very important. And this will make a difference more and more from now on.

我們做出決定並在銀行實施的時間不會超過24小時。這非常重要。而且從現在開始，這將產生越來越大的影響。

Thank you, Navarro, and thank you to all of you that took part of our earnings.

謝謝你，納瓦羅，也感謝所有參與我們收益分配的朋友。

Well, we finished the Q&A and our conference call of the third quarter of 2025. Thank you very much.

好了，問答環節和2025年第三季的電話會議都結束了。非常感謝。

Thank you, Milton. Thank you, Gabriel, and I'll give the floor to Milton to close the session.

謝謝你，米爾頓。謝謝你，加布里埃爾，接下來我把發言權交給米爾頓，讓他來結束這次會議。

Thank you. I would like to thank you for your presence. Thank you to my friend, Gabriel, CFO of the bank; Gustavo, the IR Director, it's a privilege to have you with me in this discussion with the market and to tell you that we are very satisfied with the evolution and maybe going back to the original point at the beginning of the call

謝謝。感謝各位的蒞臨。感謝我的朋友，銀行財務長加布里埃爾；感謝投資者關係總監古斯塔沃，很榮幸能與你們一起參與此次市場討論，並告訴你們，我們對目前的進展非常滿意，或許可以回到電話會議開始時提出的觀點。

I will tell you at the at the end of my presentation that the numbers at the end of the day, there are consequence of a work that is done with a lot of dedication, a lot of energy with a lot of capacity. And a deep knowledge of our operations of business with a lot of will to continue to grow and evolve, but above all, with a lot of humility.

在我的演講結束時，我會告訴你們，最終的數字是投入大量奉獻、精力和能力所取得的成果。並且對我們的業務運作有深刻的了解，有不斷成長和發展的強烈意願，但最重要的是，要保持謙遜。

So, we are certain that the results are solid, that the return is strong, but we are aware of the challenges up ahead. And in no way I want you to have a feeling that we are getting accommodated. We -- in the bank, we always, every day want to do the best thing, and we want to enchant the clients and have the obsession by the client.

因此，我們確信結果穩健，回報豐厚，但我們也意​​識到未來面臨的挑戰。我絕不想讓你覺得我們受到了優待。我們－在銀行，我們每天都想做到最好，我們想讓客戶著迷，讓客戶對我們著迷。

I'm getting into this era of the hyper personalization that is perfect to make decisions that were important in the past and that are being very assertive in the result in regards to the results that are being delivered. Our capacity of competing in every niche, in every market, and every segment was never so strong.

我正步入這個高度個人化的時代，這非常適合做出過去很重要的決策，並且在交付的結果方面非常自信。我們在每個細分市場、每個市場、每個細分領域都擁有前所未有的強大競爭力。

And we are very excited with the opportunities in the future. Foot on the ground, capital allocation, creation of value efficiency, the execution model constant, and above all, a long-term view. We will never let the future go taking short-term decisions so that the results of the next quarter are a bit better than the expectation. No. We think that corrections need to be structural.

我們對未來的機會感到非常興奮。腳踏實地、資本配置、價值創造效率、執行模式的穩定性，以及最重要的，長遠眼光。我們絕不會為了追求短期利益而犧牲未來，只為了讓下一季的業績比預期好一點。不。我們認為，糾正措施需要從結構上著手。

We do not want -- the action doesn't -- the action -- the shares go up with the consistency and quality. So, thank you very much for your role, the investors, analysts that bring feedback, that talk to us every day, and that ask difficult questions. You have the provocations and that makes us improve. We don't know everything. It's in our culture. So thank you once again and I hope to have you the next quarter. See you next time.

我們不希望——行動不會——行動——股價上漲是因為穩定性和品質。所以，非常感謝各位投資人和分析師的付出，感謝你們每天與我們交流，提出寶貴意見，並提出各種難題。你們的挑釁促使我們進步。我們不可能什麼都知道。這是我們文化的一部分。再次感謝，希望下個季度還能見到你。下次見。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄稿中的英文陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員翻譯的。本次活動的翻譯人員由活動贊助公司提供。