伊塔烏聯合銀行 (ITUB) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Hello. Good morning, everyone. I am Renato Lulia and it is a pleasure to have you joining us at another Itaú Unibanco quarter earnings conference. Milton will explain our performance and earnings for the first quarter of 2025. In a new format from Itaú BBA's auditorium at Faria Lima headquarters in Sao Paulo.

你好。大家早安。我是 Renato Lulia，很高興您能參加 Itaú Unibanco 的另一場季度收益會議。米爾頓將解釋我們 2025 年第一季的業績和收益。採用新形式，在聖保羅 Faria Lima 總部的 Itaú BBA 禮堂舉行。

Then we will host a Q&A session in which analysts and investors will be able to interact directly with us from the studio, which is right next door to the auditorium.

然後，我們將舉辦問答環節，分析師和投資者可以在禮堂隔壁的攝影棚直接與我們互動。

I would like to give you some instructions to make the most of today's meeting. For those of you who are accessing this via our website. There are three options for audio on the screen. The entire content in Portuguese, the entire content in English or in the original audio and we will have simultaneous translation in the first two alternatives.

我想給你們一些指示，以便你們能夠充分利用今天的會議。對於透過我們的網站存取此內容的人。螢幕上有三個音訊選項。全部內容為葡萄牙語，全部內容為英語或原始音頻，前兩種方式我們將提供同聲傳譯。

To choose your option, all you have to do is click the flag at the top left corner of your screen. Questions can also be forwarded via WhatsApp to the number appearing on your screen. Today's presentation is available for download on the website screen and also as usual, on our investor relations website. That is it for now from me.

要選擇您的選項，您只需點擊螢幕左上角的旗幟即可。您也可以透過 WhatsApp 將問題轉發到螢幕上顯示的號碼。今天的簡報可在網站螢幕上下載，也可像往常一樣在我們的投資者關係網站上下載。我現在就講到這裡。

Now I will hand over to Milton, and we will meet later next door in the studio for the Q&A session. Milton, over to you.

現在我將把時間交給米爾頓，我們稍後會在隔壁的攝影棚見面進行問答環節。米爾頓，交給你了。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good morning. Welcome to yet another earnings presentation. Let's talk about the earnings for the first quarter of 2025 with two key changes. First, we have changed the presentation format itself to make it easier for you to understand it and to deep dive. And I will also talk about some disclosure changes we have made, both in the credit portfolio chart and the service and insurance revenue breakdown.

早安.歡迎參加另一次收益報告會。讓我們來談談 2025 年第一季的收益，其中有兩個關鍵變化。首先，我們改變了演示格式本身，以便您更容易理解和深入了解。我也會談談我們在信貸組合圖表以及服務和保險收入明細方面所做的某些揭露變更。

In addition, throughout the presentation, I will also highlight the impacts of implementing Resolution 4,966 in the Brazilian GAAP accounting practice, and I think I will be sharing good news.

此外，在整個演講過程中，我還將強調實施第 4,966 號決議對巴西 GAAP 會計實務的影響，我想我會分享好消息。

Now I will straight to the point, starting with the results highlights. This traditional chart shows the managerial recurring earnings, ROE, both in Brazil and on a consolidated basis, pre-tax earnings, NII with clients and efficiency and capital ratios.

現在我將開門見山，從結果亮點開始。這張傳統圖表顯示了管理層的經常性收益、ROE（巴西和合併基礎）、稅前收益、客戶NII以及效率和資本比率。

Moving forward, this quarter, we delivered a recurring managerial result of BRL11.1 billion a very sound result with a 2.2% growth compared to the last quarter and almost 14% year over year when we translate this result into profitability.

展望未來，本季度，我們實現了 111 億巴西雷亞爾的經常性管理業績，這是一個非常不錯的成績，與上一季度相比增長了 2.2%，如果將此業績轉化為盈利能力，則同比增長近 14%。

In the first quarter of 2025 we delivered a return on equity of 22.5% on a consolidated basis and 23.7% in the operation in Brazil. Both indicators grew on a quarterly and annual basis. By adjusting ROE by risk appetite capital, which is 11.5% for the operation in Brazil, we get a 25.9% ROE. This indicator is more comparable with our peers, given that our capital ratio is still slightly above our risk appetite.

2025 年第一季度，我們的合併股本回報率為 22.5%，巴西業務的股本回報率為 23.7%。這兩個指標按季度和年度均有所增長。透過風險偏好資本調整 ROE（巴西業務為 11.5%），我們得到 25.9% 的 ROE。鑑於我們的資本充足率仍略高於我們的風險偏好，該指標與我們的同行更具可比性。

On a consolidated basis, our ROE is 24.4%. So we continue to deliver very sound profitability, very high returns and very positive earnings for the quarter. Even more importantly, we should look at the quality of our result, it's composition. I mean, the results from the inside out. EBIT grew 6.5% in the quarter compared to the fourth quarter of last year and 16% year over year, reaching BRL16.7 billion.

以合併口徑計算，我們的 ROE 為 24.4%。因此，本季我們繼續實現非常穩健的獲利能力、非常高的回報和非常積極的收益。更重要的是，我們應該專注於結果的質量，即它的組成。我的意思是，從內到外的結果。本季息稅前利潤與去年第四季相比成長 6.5%，年增 16%，達到 167 億巴西雷亞爾。

This means that EBIT grew more than BRL1 billion quarter over quarter. Our margin with clients was BRL29.4 billion, also a very sound result, growing 3% compared to the last quarter of 2024 and almost 14% year over year.

這意味著息稅前利潤 (EBIT) 環比增長超過 10 億巴西雷亞爾。我們與客戶的利潤為 294 億巴西雷亞爾，這也是一個非常不錯的成績，與 2024 年最後一個季度相比增長了 3%，同比增長了近 14%。

In addition, we were able to deliver the lowest efficiency ratio threshold in the bank's history at 36% and naturally taking into consideration first quarter seasonality. This is also the best first quarter in the bank's history in terms of efficiency ratio. We closed at 38.1% on a consolidated basis, a major improvement compared to the fourth quarter and a slight year over year improvement.

此外，我們能夠實現銀行歷史上最低的效率比率門檻 36%，並且自然考慮到第一季的季節性。這也是該行歷史上效率比率最好的第一季。我們的綜合利潤率為 38.1%，與第四季相比大幅提升，與去年同期相比則略有提升。

As for the operation in Brazil, this represents a 240 basis points improvement and we also posted an improvement of almost 100 basis points year over year, all this while maintaining a very sound capital base. We closed the quarter with a 12.6% CET1 by offsetting absorbing regulatory impacts and the payment of the additional dividends incurred in the quarter, which consumed 110 basis points of capital.

就巴西的業務而言，這意味著提高了 240 個基點，並且與去年同期相比，我們還實現了近 100 個基點的提高，同時保持了非常穩健的資本基礎。透過抵銷吸收監管影響並支付本季產生的額外股利（消耗了 110 個基點的資本），我們在本季結束時的 CET1 為 12.6%。

Therefore, on a pro forma basis, by adjusting for the impact of the additional dividends in the fourth quarter, we posted an expansion of 30 basis points compared to December 2024 compared to March 2024, we posted a lower CET1.

因此，在備考基礎上，透過調整第四季額外股利的影響，我們公佈的擴張幅度與 2024 年 12 月相比擴大了 30 個基點，與 2024 年 3 月相比，我們的 CET1 有所下降。

I will now present to you the credit portfolio performance. As you can see, the individuals loan book grew 8.6%. The SME credit portfolio grew 17.7% and the large corporate loan book grew 13%. I am going to make some comments to explain some of the changes we have made to the credit portfolio chart so that you can understand them better. There was no change in the individuals loan book whatsoever.

現在我將向大家介紹信貸組合的表現。如您所見，個人貸款帳簿成長了 8.6%。中小企業信貸組合成長 17.7%，大型企業貸款成長 13%。我將發表一些評論來解釋我們對信用組合圖表所做的某些更改，以便您更好地理解它們。個人貸款帳簿沒有任何變更。

This portfolio grew 8.6%, driven by the growth in credit cards, personal loans, vehicle financing and mortgage while payroll loans are still under pressure due to the interest cap for the INSS beneficiaries portfolio. The payroll loan origination for INSS beneficiaries has naturally reduced given the level of funding costs.

該投資組合增長了 8.6%，主要受信用卡、個人貸款、汽車融資和抵押貸款增長的推動，而工資貸款由於 INSS 受益人投資組合的利息上限而仍然面臨壓力。鑑於融資成本水平，INSS 受益人的薪資貸款發放自然減少了。

Further, the finance credit card portfolio in the quarter grew 8%. In the last quarter, there was an increase in the volume of transactions due to end-of-year shopping. And now at the beginning of the year, part of this portfolio begins to be financed, thus starting to yield interest, and this affects our margin significantly as well.

此外，本季金融信用卡組合成長了 8%。上個季度，由於年終購物，交易量增加。現在到了年初，該投資組合的一部分開始獲得融資，從而開始產生利息，這也對我們的利潤率產生了很大的影響。

Now, I will put a little more emphasis on some changes. The first point is that we have also adjusted past figures for comparable reasons. Let me now comment on the most relevant changes. We had an important agribusiness portfolio, which we had always classified as large corporates because this was the segment where this business was managed.

現在，我將更加強調一些變化。第一點，出於類似的原因，我們也對過去的數字進行了調整。現在讓我對最相關的變化進行評論。我們擁有重要的農業綜合企業組合，我們一直將其歸類為大型企業，因為這是管理該業務的部門。

However, over time, this portfolio has been segmented into different companies. We reclassified these companies to the SMEs portfolio based on their annual revenue, we have disclosed all the details in the footnote to the credit portfolio chart.

然而，隨著時間的推移，該投資組合已被細分為不同的公司。我們根據這些公司的年收入將其重新歸類到中小企業投資組合中，我們在信貸投資組合圖表的腳註中揭露了所有細節。

We have also included in the chart the receivables investment funds, which, at the end of the day, our securities established for credit purposes. We have also included the exposures to financial institutions when we have these banks as clients. This does not consider the certificates of interbank deposits or CDIs to manage liquidity in the system. Here, we consider credit-like instruments with these banks. We have also included in this chart the credit-like transactions operated by our trading. Again, you have all the details disclosed in the footnote to the credit portfolio chart.

我們也在圖表中加入了應收帳款投資基金，這些基金最終是我們的證券為信貸目的而設立的。當我們擁有這些銀行作為客戶時，我們也將金融機構的風險敞口納入其中。這還沒有考慮使用銀行間存款證或中央存款保險機構 (CDI) 來管理系統的流動性。在這裡，我們考慮這些銀行的類似信貸的工具。我們還在此圖表中包含了我們交易所操作的類似信用的交易。再次，您可以在信貸組合圖表的腳註中看到所有揭露的詳細資訊。

So if you analyze the portfolio, you will see that the SMEs loan book posted a drop of 2% in the quarter. The portfolio of large corporates drops 1.8%, and the total of Brazil dropped 0.8%. However, it's important to exclude the FX effects on the portfolio as a whole. Instead of falling 1.7%, the total portfolio would have fallen 0.2%, excluding FX impacts. This shows the portfolio sensitivity to foreign exchange fluctuations.

因此，如果你分析投資組合，你會發現中小企業貸款帳簿在本季下降了 2%。大型企業投資組合下跌1.8%，巴西整體下跌0.8%。然而，排除外匯對整個投資組合的影響非常重要。不計外匯影響，整個投資組合不會下跌 1.7%，而是下跌 0.2%。這顯示投資組合對外匯波動的敏感度。

Instead of falling 2%, the SMEs portfolio would have fallen 0.6%, excluding FX impacts and the large corporate portfolio would have dropped 0.5% and not 1.8%, instead of falling 5.5% the Latin America portfolio would have fallen 1.3%, excluding FX impacts. The average balance of the credit portfolio is what impacts NII for the period.

中小企業投資組合的跌幅不至於達到 2%，而是達到 0.6%（不包括外匯影響）；大型企業投資組合的跌幅不至於達到 0.5%（而非 1.8%）；拉丁美洲投資組合的跌幅不至於達到 5.5%，而是達到 1.3%（不包括外匯影響）。信貸組合的平均餘額會影響該期間的NII。

The chart that I will show you next highlights this message. So when we look at the average balance of the credit portfolio, individuals posted growth of 2.1%, SMEs grew 5.5% and large corporates was up 2.1%. So the average balance for the period grew 2.3% and this is what generates revenue and consequently, net interest margin. This takes away a little of the seasonality and the FX rate effects that I explained in the previous chart. The average balance, therefore, is the best information available to analyze the NII.

接下來我將向您展示的圖表重點強調了這個訊息。因此，當我們查看信貸組合的平均餘額時，個人信貸成長了 2.1%，中小企業信貸成長了 5.5%，大型企業信貸成長了 2.1%。因此，該期間的平均餘額增長了 2.3%，從而產生了收入，並最終產生了淨利差。這消除了我在上一張圖表中解釋的一些季節性和外匯匯率的影響。因此，平均餘額是分析 NII 的最佳資訊。

Next, we present the traditional margin chart where we show the NII figures in billions of reals at the top and below the NIM, which is the annualized average margins. I will start by focusing on the NII with clients in which we have two major effects.

接下來，我們展示傳統的利潤率圖表，其中我們在頂部顯示以十億雷亞爾為單位的 NII 數字，在 NIM 下方顯示 NIM，即年化平均利潤率。我將首先關注客戶的 NII，其中我們有兩個主要影響。

The first one is the working capital, which posted results of BRL3.2 billion in the previous quarter. And now for the first quarter of 2025 it has generated results of BRL4.0 billion. When we look at the spread sensitive margin related to the loan portfolio, that is the core margin, we have a few effects. The higher volume had a positive impact of BRL300 million out of BRL900 million in total growth, as shown here on this slide.

第一個是營運資本，上一季營運資本為 32 億巴西雷亞爾。目前，截至 2025 年第一季度，該公司已創造 40 億巴西雷亞爾的業績。當我們查看與貸款組合相關的利差敏感保證金（即核心保證金）時，我們會發現一些影響。如本投影片所示，交易量的增加對 9 億巴西雷亞爾的總成長產生了 3 億巴西雷亞爾的正面影響。

As regards to the product mix, for example, the increase in finance credit card portfolio which I showed earlier affects the mix because this is a portfolio with a higher spread. The segment's mix between large corporates, SMEs and individuals, also impacts this line along with the product mix within these segments.

就產品組合而言，例如，我之前展示的金融信用卡組合的增加會影響組合，因為這是一個利差較高的組合。大型企業、中小企業和個人之間的細分市場組合也對這條生產線以及這些細分市場內的產品組合產生了影響。

All of these affect this line and resulted in a positive result being posted for the quarter. We have consolidated the spreads and the liability margin impacts. By spread here, we considered both credit portfolio spreads and also the liability margin spread from which we have also obtained a positive effect.

所有這些都影響了這條生產線，並導致本季取得了積極的成果。我們已經合併了利差和負債保證金的影響。這裡的利差，我們既考慮了信貸組合利差，也考慮了負債保證金利差，我們也從中獲得了正面的影響。

A key issue to be considered in the NII is the calendar effect. This quarter, we had fewer working days and fewer calendar days. This has affected both the asset side or the credit side and the liability side of the business, depending on the metric used and how we manage and monitor them. The calendar effect shows that this seasonality removes BRL500 million from our earnings. We would have posted very strong growth, if not for this seasonality due to the calendar effect.

國家資訊基礎架構中需要考慮的關鍵問題是日曆效應。本季度，我們的工作日和日曆日都減少了。這對業務的資產方或信貸方以及負債方都有影響，這取決於所使用的指標以及我們如何管理和監控它們。日曆效應表明，這種季節性因素使我們的收益減少了 5 億巴西雷亞爾。如果不是因為日曆效應導致的季節性，我們本來會實現非常強勁的成長。

Analyzing the impact shown in the bar, Latin America and others, we have had both positive and negative effects. This line also recorded the positive effect of about BRL100 million due to the stop accrual change with the implementation of Resolution 4,966. This effect is included in this line named others, and I will detail it soon when we talk about the margin. We have always been very disciplined in managing the stop accrual. Therefore, the effect of the change in stop accrual from 60 to 90 days was positive for our margin, not negative. This is a key point to be taken into consideration.

分析酒吧、拉丁美洲和其他國家所表現出的影響，我們既有正面的影響，也有負面的影響。隨著第 4,966 號決議的實施，停止提列變化也為該行帶來了約 1 億巴西雷亞爾的正面影響。這種效果包含在名為「其他」的這一行中，當我們討論邊距時，我將很快詳細說明它。我們在管理停損累積方面一直非常嚴格。因此，停止累計期限從 60 天變為 90 天對我們的利潤率來說是正面的，而不是負面的。這是需要考慮的關鍵點。

Moving on to the annualized average margin. Here are some highlights. First, there was a significant increase in the consolidated NIM that reached 9% and a significant increase in the risk-adjusted NIM that reached 6.1%. This dotted line in the 5.8% is just to remind you that in the third quarter of last year, there was a credit provision reversal amounting to BRL500 million before tax related to the case of that retailer currently under Chapter 11. This layout helps you analyze the trend over time.

繼續討論年化平均利潤率。以下是一些亮點。一是合併淨利差大幅提升至9%，風險調整後淨利差大幅提升至6.1%。5.8% 中的虛線只是為了提醒您，去年第三季度，與目前處於第 11 章的零售商的情況相關的信貸準備金逆轉額為 5 億巴西雷亞爾（稅前）。此佈局可協助您分析隨時間變化的趨勢。

This is the best risk-adjusted margin we have ever posted since the fourth quarter of 2019, which is the quarter immediately preceding the first quarter of the pandemic. The story is no different for the operation in Brazil. We have reached NIM of 9.8% and risk-adjusted NIM of 6.6%.

這是自 2019 年第四季（即疫情爆發第一季之前的一個季度）以來我們公佈的最佳風險調整後利潤率。巴西的行動也同樣如此。我們的淨利差已達 9.8%，風險調整後的淨利差達到 6.6%。

The one-off effect from the retailer we just talked about stands out more because the transaction is booked in Brazil, which again shows an important margin recovery trend. I always tell you that the way the bank is managed is reflected in the risk-adjusted margin. Growing revenue generating margin is challenging with a certain degree of difficulty. Our focus is on making the risk-adjusted NIM grow because that is what remains at the end of the day, net of the cost of credit.

我們剛才談到的零售商的一次性影響更加突出，因為交易是在巴西記帳的，這再次顯示出重要的利潤率回升趨勢。我總是告訴你，銀行的管理方式反映在風險調整保證金上。提高創收利潤率具有一定的挑戰性和難度。我們的重點是使風險調整後的淨利差 (NIM) 成長，因為這是扣除信貸成本後最終剩餘的金額。

Moving on to the NII with the market. We can see a steep increase for the first quarter to BRL900 million in total broken down into BRL1.2 billion in Brazil, BRL200 million in Latin America and a capital ratio hedge cost with a negative impact of BRL500 million. The next question would be come on Milton, the midpoint of the guidance release for the 2025 earnings is BRL2 billion. In the first quarter, you made practically half of this total. Were you conservative in your guidance for 2025 results on NII with the market? What is your view on it?

隨著市場的發展，我們轉向 NII。我們可以看到，第一季總額大幅增加至 9 億雷亞爾，其中巴西為 12 億雷亞爾，拉丁美洲為 2 億雷亞爾，資本比率對沖成本產生負面影響為 5 億雷亞爾。下一個問題是米爾頓，2025 年獲利預測的中點是 20 億巴西雷亞爾。在第一季，你們幾乎賺到了總數的一半。您對 2025 年 NII 業績的預測是否保守？您對此有何看法？

Well, we reiterate the 2025 guidance. We had an exceptional trading result in the first quarter, which may not be repeated going forward. We monitor our ability to create value and generate alpha in trading and this quarter was above average. So obviously, we are working hard to deliver better results.

好吧，我們重申 2025 年的指引。我們在第一季取得了出色的交易業績，未來可能不會再有這樣的業績。我們監控我們在交易中創造價值和產生阿爾法的能力，本季的表現高於平均水準。顯然，我們正在努力取得更好的結果。

In addition to that, the capital ratio hedge cost is expected to rise a lot over the next few quarters. Therefore, we will still see these effects on the NII with the market which leads us to expect that we should end the year a little above the midpoint of the guidance, which is BRL2 billion based on our best current projection. This is still our best expectation, we continue to work on it. Projecting the margin with the market is hard.

除此之外，預計未來幾季資本比率對沖成本將大幅上升。因此，我們仍將看到這些對市場 NII 的影響，這使我們預計今年年底我們的收入將略高於指導中點，根據我們目前的最佳預測，這一數字為 20 億巴西雷亞爾。這仍然是我們最好的期望，我們將繼續努力。預測市場利潤率很困難。

Despite our track record, we anticipate that some effects, especially the capital ratio hedge cost will widen given the interest rate spread, but we reiterate our guidance. I know this question will come up, but I wanted to anticipate this issue while presenting the NII with the market.

儘管我們有良好的業績記錄，但考慮到利差，我們預計一些影響，尤其是資本比率對沖成本將會擴大，但我們重申我們的指導。我知道這個問題會出現，但我想在向市場介紹 NII 時預測這個問題。

Next, we present the commissions, fees and results from insurance chart where we have made some changes. I have been telling you for several quarters now that we have been reconsidering the way we disclose the acquiring business results since it makes no sense to disclose them separately from payments results.

接下來，我們展示我們做出一些修改過的保險佣金、費用和業績圖表。幾個季度以來，我一直在告訴你們，我們一直在重新考慮披露收購業務結果的方式，因為將其與支付結果分開披露是沒有意義的。

Let's not forget that part of the acquiring business revenue is recorded in this chart, and the other portion is recorded as NII with clients. The portion of acquiring results recorded as NII has not changed, but we have consolidated the acquiring results recorded in the commissions and fees chart under payments and collections. As of now, the credit and debit cards results consider only the issuance operation.

請不要忘記，部分收單業務收入記錄在此圖表中，而另一部分則記錄為客戶的 NII。記錄為 NII 的收購結果部分沒有變化，但我們已將佣金和費用圖表中記錄的收購結果合併到付款和收款下。截至目前，信用卡和金融卡的結果僅考慮發行操作。

In addition to the acquiring business, we also consolidated under payments and collections, the revenue from tariffs collected from corporate clients as packages. Before, it was consolidated in the current account services line. This change was made to better reflect the way we manage the bank.

除收單業務外，我們還將從企業客戶收取的關稅收入以套餐形式納入支付和收款業務。此前，它被合併到經常帳戶服務線。做出這項改變是為了更好地反映我們管理銀行的方式。

All in all, we brought to the payments and collections line the acquiring business results that were considered in the credit and debit cards line and also the tariffs collected from corporate clients packages, which were in the current account services line before. Therefore, card issuance business results were isolated and the same to current account results for individuals. These are the main disclosure changes.

總而言之，我們將信用卡和金融卡業務線中考慮的收單業務結果以及先前屬於活期帳戶服務線的企業客戶套餐收費結果帶到了支付和收款業務線。因此，發卡業務的表現是孤立的，與個人活期帳戶的表現相同。這些是主要的披露變化。

We have also a second order effect, which I already anticipated when we disclosed the 2025 guidance at the beginning of the year. Regarding some deferrals that would be made in some of 2025 these lines when applying Resolution 4,966, if we excluded this effect from Resolution 4,966, we would have grown 6.5% year over year instead of growing 5.6% as presented in the chart.

我們還有一個二階效應，當我在年初披露 2025 年指引時我就已經預料到了這一點。至於在應用第 4,966 號決議時將在 2025 年部分項目上做出的延期，如果我們從第 4,966 號決議中排除這一影響，我們的同比增長率將達到 6.5%，而不是圖表中所示的 5.6%。

Revenue growth depends a lot on the economic activity. We posted a weaker DCM since it was record high last year. We have been able to deliver earnings from asset management, but the performance fee is only recorded in the second and fourth quarters. So there is a seasonal effect in the first quarter when we compare it with the fourth quarter.

收入成長很大程度取決於經濟活動。自去年創下歷史新高以來，我們公佈的 DCM 表現較弱。我們已經能夠從資產管理中獲得收益，但績效費僅在第二季和第四季記錄。因此，與第四季度相比，第一季存在季節性影響。

Our growth in commissions, fees and insurance is well within expectations and very sound, in line with what we have been seeing in terms of activity momentum. Better momentum in the capital market and even the asset management business itself will certainly create more opportunities. The insurance operation has been at a very sound growth level and after several years of expansion, we continue to find opportunities to improve our results and the insurance business.

我們的佣金、費用和保險的成長完全符合預期，而且非常穩健，與我們在活動動能方面看到的一致。資本市場乃至資產管理業務本身的向好動能必將創造更多的機會。保險業務一直處於非常良好的成長水平，經過幾年的擴張，我們繼續尋找機會來改善我們的業績和保險業務。

Next, I am going to talk about the cost of credit and the delinquency rates. I will first address the short-term NPLs both on a consolidated basis and in Brazil, and then we will talk about the long-term NPLs. And here, we already have some adaptations emerging from Resolution 4,966 starting with the short-term NPLs when we look at the consolidated figure, we see that it is very well behaved.

接下來，我要談談信貸成本和拖欠率。我將首先討論合併基礎上和巴西的短期不良貸款，然後再討論長期不良貸款。在這裡，我們已經對第 4,966 號決議做出了一些調整，從短期不良貸款開始，當我們查看合併數據時，我們發現它表現得非常好。

Let's not forget that usually this quarter shows greater pressure on short-term NPLs, especially because this is a period when households have more taxes to pay, school tuition and some end-of-year shopping payments are pushed forward to the first quarter. As a result, seasonally this quarter puts a little more pressure on short-term NPLs. I'm going to show you the breakdown of the figures for the operation in Brazil. And you will see that our short-term NPLs are very well behaved when compared to previous quarters.

我們不要忘記，通常這個季度短期不良貸款的壓力更大，特別是因為這是一個家庭需要繳納更多稅款、學校學費和一些年終購物付款被推遲到第一季的時期。因此，本季短期不良貸款的季節性壓力略有增加。我將向你們展示巴西行動的具體數據。您會發現，與前幾季相比，我們的短期不良貸款表現非常好。

Here, we introduced the short-term NPL ratio by also including securities in the denominator. This is the new methodology introduced by Resolution 4,966 and shows that the ratios also continue to be well behaved. When we look at the short-term NPLs of individuals, we see the increase by 26 basis points.

這裡，我們引入了短期不良貸款率，並將證券也納入分母。這是第 4,966 號決議引入的新方法，表明這些比率也繼續表現良好。當我們查看個人短期不良貸款時，我們發現增加了26個基點。

Last year, this increase was lower, and we have still observed some effects of the portfolio derisking. However, when we compare this ratio to the historical average, this increase is at a level below this average, which is very sound and consistent. It was no different for SMEs. The NPL was very well behaved, and I will show you details of it in a moment. And the ratio adjusted by securities also shows a very low short-term NPL ratio.

去年，這一增幅較低，我們仍然觀察到投資組合去風險化的一些效果。然而，當我們將這一比例與歷史平均值進行比較時，這一增幅處於低於平均水平的水平，這是非常合理且一致的。對於中小企業來說也是一樣。NPL 表現得非常好，稍後我將向您展示其詳細資訊。而經證券調整後的比率也顯示短期不良貸款率非常低。

Naturally, the figures for large corporates are lower. I always tell you that it is much better to analyze the credit portfolio considering loan by stage instead of the NPLs, especially for large corporates. Probably you would ask me about the long-term NPLs so I'm going to answer it right away. We continue to have very well-behaved NPL ratios, the best in the bank history in all segments. And here, we also show the ratios adjusted by securities.

當然，大公司的數字較低。我總是告訴你，分析信貸組合時，按階段考慮貸款而不是不良貸款要好得多，特別是對於大型企業而言。您可能會問我有關長期不良貸款的問題，所以我會立即回答。我們的不良貸款率繼續保持在非常良好的水平，在所有領域都達到了銀行歷史上的最佳水平。這裡我們也展示了按證券調整後的比率。

When we zoom in the operation in Brazil, you will see that there was a drop in the 90-day NPL ratio for individuals. This is the best ratio ever. In the SMEs business, we also see a major improvement in this ratio adjusted by securities. And you see that there was a discontinuity since we had been operating between 2.3% and 2.5% levels. And here, we have two relevant pieces of information.

當我們放大巴西的運作情況時，你會發現個人90天不良貸款率下降。這是迄今為止最好的比例。在中小企業業務中，我們也看到經證券調整後的這一比率有了很大的改善。您會發現，由於我們的營運水準一直在 2.3% 和 2.5% 之間，因此存在不連續性。這裡我們有兩個相關資訊。

This ratio at these low levels between 1.6% and 1.8% is not sustainable for two reasons. First, because of the production volume, both in the fourth quarter of 2024 and the first quarter of 2025 boosted the denominator and also because of the portfolio mix, which was built up mainly with government programs with grace period, therefore, the denominator is affected by a higher credit portfolio while the numerator overdue loans is not.

由於兩個原因，1.6%至1.8%之間的低水平比率是不可持續的。首先，由於2024年第四季和2025年第一季的產量都推高了分母，而且投資組合主要由有寬限期的政府項目組成，因此，分母受到較高信貸組合的影響，而分子逾期貸款則不受影響。

This effect will normalize throughout the year, and our best expectation is that it will return to the levels of the third quarter of 2024 and back, absolutely well behaved and within our appetite without any kind of specific concerns naturally considering today's data and market inputs. But just to make it clear to you, over the next few quarters, we will see a normalization of this ratio, which, in fact, due to this effect is much lower than our actual expectation.

這種影響將在全年正常化，我們最好的預期是，它將回到 2024 年第三季的水平，並再次回歸，絕對表現良好，並且在我們的預期之內，考慮到今天的數據和市場投入，自然不會有任何具體的擔憂。但需要您明確的是，在接下來的幾個季度中，我們將看到該比率的正常化，事實上，由於這種影響，該比率遠低於我們的實際預期。

In terms of cost of credit, it reached BRL9 billion in nominal terms. The cost of credit over the total loan book reached 2.6% considering the new credit portfolio, which is flat when compared to the previous quarter. For comparison purposes, it is best to consider 2.7% in the first quarter of 2025, which considers the same criteria for the loan book as the historic series. When we go to the write-offs, we can also see a relevant effect resulting in a drop. We have done the derisking process over the years. So first, you go through the short-term NPLs than the long-term NPLs and then you get to the write-offs.

就信貸成本而言，名義上達到了 90 億巴西雷亞爾。考慮到新的信貸組合，信貸成本佔貸款總額的比例達到 2.6%，與上一季持平。為了進行比較，最好考慮 2025 年第一季的 2.7%，這與歷史系列的貸款帳簿標準相同。當我們進行註銷時，我們也可以看到導致下降的相關影響。多年來，我們一直在進行降低風險的過程。因此，首先，您要先查看短期不良貸款，然後再查看長期不良貸款，最後進行核銷。

Therefore, we have not changed any criteria, and this is very important to keep in mind. Resolution 4,966 currently effective, allows some additional degree of freedom, especially to address the write-offs and to recognize a provision of 100%.

因此，我們沒有改變任何標準，牢記這一點非常重要。目前生效的第 4,966 號決議允許一些額外的自由度，特別是解決註銷問題和確認 100% 的撥備。

Our vision remains exactly the same, despite the degree of freedom, we have kept our logic unchanged since this is our best expectation of recoverability or actual loss on a given loan. Therefore, as a general rule, we continue to use 360-day terms. Resolution 4,966 breaks down by product clusters, but the main message for you is that there has not been any change in criteria.

我們的願景保持不變，儘管自由度有所提高，但我們的邏輯保持不變，因為這是對特定貸款的可回收性或實際損失的最佳預期。因此，作為一般規則，我們繼續使用 360 天的期限。第 4,966 號決議按產品集群進行細分，但向您傳達的主要訊息是標準沒有任何變化。

Had we changed the criteria the write-off would have been longer, it would take more time. And the NPL ratios would have gone up, but we would have had a momentary benefit from better credit costs. So by doing a back test, if we had applied the degree of freedom of Resolution 4,966 to our 2024 credit cost, we would have had a cost of credit 10% lower than last year's, which is not small.

如果我們改變標準，註銷時間就會更長，需要更多時間。不良貸款率將會上升，但我們可以從更好的信貸成本中獲得暫時的利益。因此，透過回測，如果我們將第 4966 號決議的自由度應用於我們的 2024 年信貸成本，我們的信貸成本將比去年低 10％，這個數字並不小。

Therefore, we didn't change the criteria, we continue to be very disciplined and to manage the bank based on expected losses and not on incurred losses. We continue to take into consideration our best expectation of loss materialization and therefore, 360 days is the statistically best input we have to support the write-off criteria that we have been using and it is much more consistent with our management.

因此，我們沒有改變標準，我們繼續保持高度自律，並根據預期損失而不是已發生的損失來管理銀行。我們繼續考慮對損失實現的最佳預期，因此，360 天是統計上最好的輸入，可以支援我們一直使用的註銷標準，並且與我們的管理更加一致。

At this point, I'd like to take a break since this is a new chart, and I have some messages to pass on to you. From now on, we will start tracking credit quality for Stages 2 and 3. So I'm going to zoom in on each of these stages, not only to show how our portfolio is distributed, but also to show the coverage by stage.

此時，我想休息一下，因為這是一個新圖表，我有一些訊息要傳達給您。從現在開始，我們將開始追蹤第二階段和第三階段的信用品質。因此，我將放大每個階段，不僅展示我們的投資組合如何分佈，而且還顯示按階段劃分的覆蓋範圍。

Let's start with Stage 2. We see that 8% of the individuals portfolio in Brazil is classified in Stage 2 as well as 1.8% of corporate portfolio, 4.6% of Latin America and 4.3% of the total portfolio. And the additional data introduced is what we call coverage by stage, which is a very important indicator. It's the balance of allowances for expected loss for the portfolio classified at that specific stage. In this case, we have an allowance balance for the individuals portfolio of 26% classified in Stage 2 which was 24.5% last quarter.

讓我們從第二階段開始。我們發現，巴西個人投資組合中有 8% 被歸類為第 2 階段，企業投資組合中有 1.8% 被歸類為第 2 階段，拉丁美洲有 4.6% 被歸類為第 2 階段，總投資組合中有 4.3% 被歸類為第 2 階段。而引入的額外數據就是我們所謂的分階段覆蓋，這是一個非常重要的指標。它是該特定階段分類的投資組合的預期損失準備金餘額。在這種情況下，我們個人投資組合的備抵餘額為 26%，屬於第 2 階段，上個季度為 24.5%。

The first message to get across is that this is a major change in the way we handle the stages, and we have some degree of freedom or discretion in how to carry out this rating. Since the bank has always worked with expected losses and this is why at the end of the year, there was no impact on the cost of credit and on stockholders' equity because of the change in methodology, we just maintained the expected loss and not the incurred loss approach. This difference is very important. And how do you observe this?

首先要傳達的訊息是，這是我們處理階段方式的重大變化，我們在如何進行評級方面擁有一定程度的自由或自由裁量權。由於銀行一直採用預期損失方法，因此在年底，方法的改變不會對信用成本和股東權益產生影響，我們只是維持預期損失方法，而不是已發生損失方法。這個區別非常重要。您如何看待這現象？

If we add up the Stage 2 portfolio and the Stage 3 portfolio, which I will show in a moment, and compare the outcome with our NPL ratios, which apply either to short term or long term, regardless of the analysis you want to make, you will see that both in Stage 2 and 3 are virtually double our actual NPL. This shows how rigorously we measure these stages, if it was only by NPL and therefore, figures observed here were identical to the NPL figures, it wouldn't make much sense to have the stages.

如果我們將第 2 階段投資組合和第 3 階段投資組合加起來（我稍後會展示），並將結果與我們的不良貸款率（適用於短期或長期）進行比較，無論您要進行何種分析，您都會發現第 2 階段和第 3 階段的不良貸款率幾乎是我們實際不良貸款率的兩倍。這顯示了我們對這些階段的衡量有多嚴格，如果僅透過不良貸款 (NPL) 來衡量，那麼這裡觀察到的數字與不良貸款 (NPL) 數字相同，那麼劃分這些階段就沒有多大意義了。

In much simpler terms, we have the short-term NPLs in Stage 2 and the long-term NPLs in Stage 3. In addition, we also include in Stage 3 any credit deterioration, renegotiations, problematic assets and restructured assets which are those renegotiated after becoming 30 days overdue or those renegotiated twice, even if not overdue.

簡單來說，第二階段是短期不良貸款，第三階段是長期不良貸款。此外，我們還將所有信用惡化、重新談判、問題資產和重組資產納入第三階段，這些資產是逾期 30 天後重新談判的資產，或即使未逾期也重新談判兩次的資產。

When we acknowledge a change in the client's credit risk, even if it refers to performing loans, and there are no overdue payments, which is particularly the case for companies. We classify it in Stage 2, and depending on how steep the movement is it goes to Stage 3. Stage indicators are very important, and I think it is going to greatly improve comparability to see that we have provisioned for expected loss, which is why our stages are higher than our current NPL ratios.

當我們承認客戶的信用風險發生變化時，即使這指的是履行貸款，並且沒有逾期付款，這對公司來說尤其如此。我們將其歸類為第 2 階段，並根據運動的陡峭程度進入第 3 階段。階段指標非常重要，我認為，看到我們為預期損失提列了準備金，將大大提高可比性，這就是為什麼我們的階段高於當前的不良貸款率。

Another key issue is what we are calling coverages, which ends up depending a lot on the mix, I will give you an example. If we have a mortgage loan payment overdue by more than 90 days, it goes automatically to Stage 3. But because the loan is guaranteed by the property, we do not need a 100% allowance balance just because it's in Stage 3. This is why it's very important to understand the underlying mix. A company whose rating is downgraded is automatically classified in Stage 2 before going to Stage 3 because it did not become a problem asset. I may have collaterals so my allowance may be lower than the balance classified in this stage.

另一個關鍵問題是我們所說的覆蓋範圍，這最終很大程度上取決於組合，我給你舉個例子。如果我們的抵押貸款逾期超過 90 天，則會自動進入第 3 階段。但由於貸款是由房產擔保的，因此我們不需要 100% 的免稅額餘額，僅僅因為它處於第 3 階段。這就是為什麼了解底層組合非常重要。評級被下調的公司在進入第 3 階段之前會自動歸類為第 2 階段，因為它並未成為問題資產。我可能有抵押品，所以我的津貼可能低於此階段分類的餘額。

In individuals, we have 26.1% coverage in Stage 2. While for companies, the coverage is 22.9%. And in Latin America, at 16.6%. In stage 3, we have 5.8% of the portfolio of individuals, 3.5% of the portfolio companies and 4.3% of the portfolio of Latin America, that is 4.4% of the total portfolio is classified in Stage 3. And when we look at the coverages, we see that they are already higher coverages because they refer to problematic assets which underwent more renegotiations or restructured assets that automatically end up in this stage.

對於個人來說，第二階段的覆蓋率為 26.1%。而對企業來說，覆蓋率僅22.9%。拉丁美洲的比例為 16.6%。在第三階段，我們有 5.8% 的個人投資組合、3.5% 的公司投資組合和 4.3% 的拉丁美洲投資組合，也就是說，總投資組合的 4.4% 被歸類為第三階段。當我們查看覆蓋範圍時，我們發現它們的覆蓋範圍已經更高了，因為它們指的是經過更多重新談判或重組的問題資產，這些資產會自動進入這個階段。

And bear in mind, the comments I have made about coverage, mix and type of product. Another important point is that despite the change in the standard, we have not changed the way we manage the bank using the expected loss model. So deep down, this is a consequence of everything we have already been doing over the years.

請記住，我對產品的覆蓋範圍、組合和類型所做的評論。還有一點很重要，儘管準則發生了變化，我們使用預期損失模型管理銀行的方式並沒有改變。所以從根本上來說，這是我們多年來所做的一切的結果。

In other words, if we had to reprocess that traditional coverage ratio, which took into account the allowance balance for payments past due more than 90 days, you would see stability because nothing has changed. This is a consequence of the changes and not because we have to change the way we manage the bank's allowances and loan portfolio. This strengthens our suitable risk management criteria, rigor and discipline, in particular, when compared to the rest of the market.

換句話說，如果我們必須重新處理傳統的覆蓋率，將逾期 90 天以上的付款準備金餘額考慮在內，您會看到穩定性，因為一切都沒有改變。這是變化的結果，而不是因為我們必須改變管理銀行準備金和貸款組合的方式。這加強了我們適當的風險管理標準、嚴謹性和紀律性，尤其是與市場其他部分相比。

You can see this in our figures, whether in the chain of the stop accrual approach with a BRL100 million positive impact on our margin, or in the reclassification of portfolios, as I have commented previously. In the end, all this is a reflection of better risk management.

您可以在我們的數據中看到這一點，無論是在停止應計方法鏈中對我們的利潤產生 1 億巴西雷亞爾的積極影響，還是在投資組合的重新分類中，正如我之前所評論的那樣。最終，這一切都是更好的風險管理的體現。

As regards to noninterest expenses, we have also changed the disclosure to be more in line with the way we manage the bank. This is an interesting chart, and I would like to give you some insights from it. First, we classify in the personnel expenses line, all expenses in the commercial and administrative areas.

對於非利息支出，我們也改變了揭露方式，使其更符合我們管理銀行的方式。這是一個有趣的圖表，我想從中給你一些見解。首先，我們將商業和行政領域的所有費用歸入人事費用行。

Next, we have the transactional expenses related to the entire bank infrastructure and operation that is the entire portion of expenses on fixed assets, branches and infrastructure to run the bank. In the technology expenses line, we are including all expenses on IT personnel and infrastructure. In other words, this line includes all those technology employees allocated to the community.

接下來，我們有與整個銀行基礎設施和營運相關的交易費用，即營運銀行的固定資產、分行和基礎設施的全部費用。在技​​術費用方面，我們包括了 IT 人員和基礎設施的所有費用。換句話說，這一行包括了所有分配給社區的技術員工。

Finally, we have the other expenses line. year over year, noninterest expenses grew 8.2% in Brazil and 9.8%, considering also the Latin American operations. In other words, everything is absolutely within what we had already expected, and this line will converge within the guidance range throughout the year.

最後，我們還有其他支出。與去年同期相比，巴西的非利息支出增加了 8.2%，而考慮到拉丁美洲的業務，則增加了 9.8%。換句話說，一切都完全在我們預期之內，並且全年這條線都會收斂在指導範圍內。

But the most interesting thing is to observe the time series that we have included in this presentation despite the baseline comparison effect. When we look at personnel expenses from the commercial and administrative areas, we see that the actual growth of these expenses has been only 0.6% per year over the last 10 years. In a deflated series, that is very much in line with what we have been doing with regard to the management of the bank's teams.

但最有趣的是觀察我們在本演示中包含的時間序列，儘管存在基線比較效應。當我們從商業和行政領域看人事費用時，我們發現這些費用在過去10年實際成長率僅為每年0.6%。在縮水系列中，這與我們在銀行團隊管理方面所做的非常一致。

As for transactional expenses, we also have an interesting fact. We have posted a drop of 12% per year over the last 10 years. This translates into a deflated development equivalent to a 68.5% decrease in the period with the exponential effect of a negative change over time. This shows that we are managing to obtain an important reduction in transactional and infrastructure expenses while we have invested in technology and good team management, therefore, increasing the bank's operating leverage. And this is reflected in that efficiency ratio of 36% in Brazil, which you have seen just now.

至於交易費用，我們也有一個有趣的事實。過去 10 年，我們每年的降幅為 12%。這意味著，該時期的通貨緊縮發展相當於下降了 68.5%，並且隨著時間的推移，負面變化的效應呈指數級增長。這表明，我們在投資技術和良好團隊管理的同時，成功實現了交易和基礎設施費用的大幅降低，從而提高了銀行的營運槓桿。這反映在巴西 36% 的效率比率上，正如您剛才看到的。

And when we look at technology expenses, it is very clear that we have been posting growth of 5.3% per year in expenses over the last 10 years. This considers all the systems modernization, all the investments in our platform and all the investment in product and digital actions, among others.

當我們查看技術費用時，很明顯，過去 10 年我們的費用每年增長 5.3%。這考慮了所有系統的現代化、我們平台的所有投資以及產品和數位行動的所有投資等等。

In other words, we are perfectly consistent with our strategy of having a completely modernized and much more agile bank, with incredible experience and with a much better operating scale and leverage. This is why I think this chart perfectly summarizes our strategy.

換句話說，我們完全符合我們的策略，即擁有一家完全現代化、更靈活的銀行，擁有豐富的經驗以及更好的營運規模和槓桿率。這就是為什麼我認為這張圖表完美地概括了我們的策略。

Let's move on to the efficiency ratio that I was commenting on. We have reached a consolidated efficiency ratio of 38.1% and an efficiency ratio of 36% in Brazil, which is the best ratio in the time series. And in a series not as long, from the first quarter of 2019 to today, we can see exactly how we have been able to make progress in terms of efficiency ratio whether through a more efficient operating leverage management with more investments in technology or through our ability to generate revenues.

讓我們繼續討論我所評論的效率比率。我們的綜合效率比達到了38.1%，巴西的效率比達到了36%，這是時間序列中最好的效率比。在一系列不那麼長的時間內，從 2019 年第一季到今天，我們可以清楚地看到我們在效率比率方面取得了怎樣的進步，無論是透過更有效的營運槓桿管理和更多的技術投資，還是透過我們創造收入的能力。

Our figures are very good, and we are very pleased, but we still have a lot of work to do. The good news is that we still have a lot of opportunities to chase, and we will continue to be very disciplined in the bank's cost management.

我們的數據非常好，我們也很高興，但我們還有很多工作要做。好消息是，我們仍有許多機會可以追逐，我們將繼續嚴格執行銀行的成本管理。

In closing, let's talk about capital. Here, we show that we came out of a CET1 of 13.7% in the fourth quarter of 2024. We had the payment of additional dividends with an impact of 110 basis points and as a result, we reached a CET1 of 12.6%. We had a contribution of 60 basis points to net income for the quarter, showing that our ability to generate capital with profitability remains very strong and this made it possible to neutralize the impact of risk-weighted assets such as market operational and credit risk, and to absorb all regulatory impacts with this increased capital generation capacity. We have dedicated teams in-house that are always looking for opportunities to increase capital efficiency.

最後，我們來談談資本。這裡我們顯示，2024 年第四季我們的 CET1 為 13.7%。我們支付了額外的股息，影響為 110 個基點，因此我們的 CET1 達到了 12.6%。我們對本季淨收入的貢獻為60個基點，顯示我們透過獲利產生資本的能力仍然非常強大，這使得我們能夠抵消市場營運和信用風險等風險加權資產的影響，並透過增強的資本產生能力吸收所有監管影響。我們擁有專門的內部團隊，始終在尋找提高資本效率的機會。

Therefore, all the operational risk capital and all the credit risk capital and structured operations that increased in this quarter, were absorbed with the capital generation for the quarter itself. Thus, we reached a CET1 of 12.6%, which is a very sound threshold.

因此，本季增加的所有營運風險資本、所有信用風險資本和結構化營運都被本季的資本產生吸收了。因此，我們的 CET1 達到了 12.6%，這是一個非常合理的門檻。

With everything remaining constant, we will work hard to be able to pay more additional dividends. As we always say, our goal is to pay recurring additional dividends, and that is what we have been working on. All the planning we do is carried out with a lot of discipline while monitoring the existing scenario, our growth capacity, regulatory impacts, et cetera. All these factors are taken into consideration while the bank continues to have a very sound capacity for generating capital.

在一切不變的情況下，我們會努力工作，爭取能夠支付更多的額外股息。正如我們常說的那樣，我們的目標是支付經常性的額外股息，這也是我們一直在努力的目標。我們所做的所有規劃都是在嚴格規範的前提下進行的，同時監控現有情況、我們的成長能力、監管影響等。所有這些因素都被考慮在內，同時銀行仍然擁有非常穩健的資本產生能力。

With that said, I end my presentation here. I'd like to end with two takeaways for you. First, as you have seen, this quarter, we posted very sound results of a high quality. I think it is important to look not only at our bottom line, but also to understand the entire mix and the effects that have led to it. We have posted significantly higher revenue, a major growth in EBIT and efficiency ratio at its best levels and a reduction in the cost of credit.

至此，我的演講就到此結束了。最後，我想與大家分享兩點。首先，正如您所看到的，本季我們公佈了非常高品質且非常良好的業績。我認為，不僅要看我們的底線，還要了解整個組合以及導致這種組合的影響，這一點很重要。我們的收入大幅增加，息稅前利潤和效率比率大幅成長至最佳水平，信貸成本也有所降低。

In short, a quarter with very well-behaved indicators. As I have always said, we have never been so well prepared to face whatever challenges lie ahead whether for the quality of our portfolio, the level of provisions in our balance sheet and a huge level of compliance with the new standards which shows that at the end of the day, managing lending using the expected loss approach, as we have been doing for many years, has generated consistent results.

簡而言之，本季各項指標表現非常良好。正如我一直所說的那樣，我們從未如此充分地準備迎接未來的任何挑戰，無論是我們投資組合的質量、資產負債表中的撥備水平，還是對新標準的嚴格遵守，都表明，最終，使用預期損失方法管理貸款，正如我們多年來一直在做的那樣，已經產生了一致的結果。

There were no transfers among line items. There was no discontinuity in the financial margin and all the other effects I have already mentioned were taken into consideration, which is very positive. As you can see, I am in the auditorium, and I'm going to need a minute to join Renato, who is waiting for me in our studio for our Q&A session.

項目之間無轉移。財務利潤沒有出現不連續性，而且我已經提到的所有其他影響都被考慮在內，這是非常積極的。正如你所看到的，我在禮堂裡，我需要一點時間去和雷納托會合，他正在我們的攝影棚等我，進行我們的問答環節。

In the meantime, we will show you our new campaign that we are launching, which basically reflects everything you have seen in this presentation, especially regarding the investments we have made so far. Over the years, we have invested a lot in the bank. We always talk about institutional marketing and large institutional campaigns, but we have made an important change.

同時，我們將向您展示我們正在啟動的新活動，它基本上反映了您在本次演示中看到的所有內容，特別是我們迄今為止所做的投資。多年來，我們對銀行投入了大量資金。我們總是談論機構行銷和大型機構活動，但我們已經做出了重要的改變。

We are increasingly talking more about our products and our business lines while naturally being very careful in what we say and backing all the investments made by our brand, which is the most valuable brand in Latin America.

我們越來越多地談論我們的產品和業務線，同時自然而然地對我們所說的非常謹慎，並支持我們品牌所做的所有投資，這是拉丁美洲最有價值的品牌。

This new campaign has some very important attributes. The first is to communicate to the public what our activity and our daily life is, that is working to simplify people's lives, provide good product experience and good business experience and solve client problems. This new campaign shows this and you will be able to see the number of products that we have been launching as a result of our capacity for innovation and modernization achieved over the years.

這項新活動具有一些非常重要的特性。第一是向大眾傳達我們的活動和日常生活是什麼，即努力簡化人們的生活，提供良好的產品體驗和良好的商業體驗，解決客戶的問題。這次新活動展示了這一點，您將能夠看到我們多年來憑藉創新和現代化能力推出的產品數量。

Also, we reclaim a word that has been very important to us for many years, which is done. We used to talk about made for you then we evolved to made with you, and then we launched Mad of the Future. And now we think that to make it simpler and make this delivery tangible, the time has come to use, it's done. And this is what you will see in this campaign. I hope you like it because here at Itaú, when we deliver a product, we deliver a solution. It is done.

此外，我們重新使用了多年來對我們來說非常重要的一個詞，那就是「完成」。我們過去談論的是為您而製作，然後我們發展到與您一起製作，然後我們推出了“瘋狂的未來”。現在我們認為，為了使其更簡單、更切實可行，現在是時候使用了，它已經完成了。這就是你們將在這次活動中看到的。我希望你喜歡它，因為在 Itaú，當我們交付產品時，我們也交付解決方案。完成了。

Thank you, everyone. Now I'm going to join Renato, and we will talk in a little while. See you later.

謝謝大家。現在我要加入雷納托，我們稍後再談。回頭見。

(video playing)

（影片播放）

Thank you, Milton. Well, I think that it was very nice the format of the presentation. And for those of you that have watched it, it's a very nice value of the new campaign.

謝謝你，彌爾頓。嗯，我認為演示的形式非常好。對於那些已經觀看過的人來說，這是新活動的一個非常好的價值。

So as we continue with the Q&A, we have Milton, Gabriel, our CFO. Welcome Gabriel. And this session is bilingual so we answer the question in the language that is asked. If you -- should you need any translation, you can always choose the audio in English or Portuguese. As always, you can submit the questions via WhatsApp number 11932198835. So we have a lot of questions, people have raised their hands. Without further ado, let's start.

因此，隨著我們繼續問答，我們邀請了我們的財務長米爾頓·加布里埃爾 (Milton Gabriel)。歡迎加布里埃爾。本次會議採雙語形式，因此我們會用被問到的語言來回答問題。如果您需要任何翻譯，您可以隨時選擇英語或葡萄牙語音訊。像往常一樣，您可以透過 WhatsApp 號碼 11932198835 提交問題。我們有很多問題，人們也舉手了。不用多說，我們開始吧。

First question, we have on the screen, Daniel Vaz from Safra Bank. Good morning. Welcome to our earnings call.

第一個問題，我們在螢幕上看到的是來自 Safra Bank 的 Daniel Vaz。早安.歡迎參加我們的收益電話會議。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good morning, everyone. Congratulations on the results. I have two questions on my side. I wanted to ask about growth. I mean it's easy to say that a bank your size should have more defense of market share and then you have discussions with investors.

大家早安。恭喜你取得這樣的成績。我有兩個問題。我想問一下關於成長的問題。我的意思是，很容易說，像您這樣規模的銀行應該更好地保護市場份額，然後與投資者進行討論。

We can hear the argument that it's difficult that you can compete in the massified segments against new events. But in another point, the bank does want to be attacked in some front, I mean you referenced that. And given the great level of quality of assets and capital generation, should we expect a more bold position in 2025? And how can we expect the workings of Itaú and niches where you have less market share, looking at ahead? Thank you.

我們可以聽到這樣的論點：在大眾化的領域中與新賽事競爭非常困難。但從另一個角度來看，銀行確實希望在某些方面受到攻擊，我的意思是你提到了這一點。鑑於資產品質和資本創造水準較高，我們是否應該期待 2025 年有更大膽的立場？展望未來，我們如何期待 Itaú 以及你們市場份額較少的利基市場的運作？謝謝。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you, Daniel. Thank you for the question. So it's two questions, I'm going to start first by credit. We cannot forget that we are in the highest interest rates of the last 19 years, 1475. It's not just an issue of offering, but demand that reduces as we see the different businesses. As we have had great opportunities, we've grown the portfolio in many of the segments, very diligently and we have personnel that is focused in our risk management and portfolio management.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。謝謝你的提問。所以這是兩個問題，我先從信用開始。我們不能忘記，我們正處於過去 19 年來的最高利率水平，即 1475 年。這不僅僅是一個供應問題，而且隨著我們看到不同的業務，需求也在減少。由於我們擁有巨大的機遇，我們非常努力地擴大了許多領域的投資組合，並且我們擁有專注於風險管理和投資組合管理的人員。

Of course, this is a dynamic process. But the public, the clients that we want to grow, we've managed to grow two digits, and we gained the market share. So the boldness comes from that. We have a lot of strength in growing in those publics that we understand are resilient in longer cycles. From the standpoint of opportunities, we are optimistic but cautious.

當然，這是一個動態的過程。但對於大眾，也就是我們想要增加的客戶而言，我們已經成功地實現了兩位數的成長，並且獲得了市場份額。所以勇氣就來自於此。我們在那些我們知道在較長週期內具有韌性的公眾中發展具有很大的優勢。從機會的角度看，我們樂觀但謹慎。

Optimistic because, as I told you, we are maybe at the best moment for the balance sheet of the bank for any scenario that we should face, whether if it's a scenario for opportunities, we are ready to rapidly grow our adjustments. We are also prepared with a very resilient portfolio.

樂觀是因為，正如我告訴你的，對於銀行的資產負債表來說，我們可能正處於最佳時刻，無論我們應該面對什麼情況，無論是機會情況，我們都準備好迅速增加調整。我們也準備了非常有彈性的投資組合。

This capital allocation portfolio with a long-term vision is very important regardless of the fact that we have indicators that are well behaved because these are decisions that we made today that will sustain the balance for the medium to long term. So we are very disciplined.

無論我們的指標是否表現良好，這種具有長期眼光的資本配置組合都非常重要，因為這些是我們今天所做的決定，將維持中長期的平衡。所以我們非常自律。

The capital structure is key with the quality of balance sheet that is very strong, seizing the opportunities and growing in segments that we believe that we should continue to grow, growing two digits. But what you see in the aggregate is the effect of the growth and the derisking, which we closed basically last year in the portfolio, but in those public that are not target publics well, we chose to lose some market share.

資本結構是關鍵，資產負債表的品質非常強勁，抓住機會並在我們認為應該繼續成長的領域中成長，實現兩位數的成長。但從總體上看，這是成長和降低風險的效果，去年我們在投資組合中基本上完成了這些，但對於那些不是目標公眾的公眾，我們選擇失去一些市場份額。

So when we look the addressed market, we've gained or maintained the market share in the businesses and where we've maintained and gained the share within the public that we consider that are not part of a strategy, losing the share is the best decision that we can take.

因此，當我們著眼於目標市場時，我們已經獲得或維持了企業的市場份額，並且在我們認為不屬於策略一部分的公眾中保持和獲得了份額，失去份額是我們可以做出的最佳決定。

So we're going to see the market moving. It's a lot of businesses. The bank has a very complex portfolio of businesses. So that philosophy is worth for all the business lines. We are -- we have the guidance with the best expectation. We are comfortable, and we are focused on the adequate returns with the capital allocation, not only looking at the credits but also the completeness of the relationship with our clients.

因此我們將會看到市場動向。有很多企業。該銀行的業務組合非常複雜。因此，這理念對於所有業務線都具有價值。我們－我們有最好的期望的指導。我們感到很安心，並且專注於透過資本配置獲得足夠的回報，不僅關注信用，還關注與客戶關係的完整性。

So we're optimistic, we're happy with what we've done and cautious because of the scenario, which is global or local inspires cautious because of the interest rates that I just mentioned. About the network, the decision to integrate this network, which is not simple.

因此，我們感到樂觀，對我們所做的事情感到滿意，但同時也對全球或地方的情況保持謹慎，因為我剛才提到的利率引發了謹慎。關於網絡，整合這個網絡的決定，這並不簡單。

I've been there when the company was listed, I was closed in the capital. This is an integration that has been done in an impactable matter. I don't like to self-complement but in the end, this was a well-conducted process for the teams in the bank, and this integration was so soft. So seamless that today, we can see this as another service for receivables.

公司上市的時候我在，在首都關門了。這是在可影響的事情上完成的整合。我不喜歡自我補充，但最終，對於銀行的團隊來說，這是一個進行良好的過程，而且這種整合非常順暢。如此無縫，以至於今天我們可以將其視為另一項應收帳款服務。

So we have another offering of flows and our packages. So this integration of the network in the bank, the way that the managers of the back of all the segments discuss issue acquirents within the package of flows and receivables and payments, we have unbelievable synergies.

因此，我們提供了另一個流程和套件。因此，透過銀行網路的整合，以及所有部門後台管理人員在流量、應收帳款和付款一攬子計劃中討論問題收購的方式，我們獲得了令人難以置信的協同效應。

And we lead the mono product line our discussion to have a holistic overview of the client, which is correct, but I'm not going to talk about the acquiring clients. I'm going to talk about the client in the discussion that they want to have about the credit, the receivable that is important whether if it's a discussion on the service that the network is the best discussion, it starts there.

我們主導的單一產品線討論是為了對客戶進行整體概述，這是正確的，但我不會談論收購客戶。我將在討論中談論客戶想要的有關信貸、應收帳款的問題，這很重要，無論是否討論網路服務都是最好的討論，一切都從這裡開始。

So this integration of the commercial teams along with the network and the unification has brought important results. We're very happy with the evolution. And naturally, we will advance in the different segments this is our opinion, and the [Emphas] which is a platform that we have digital of the company to talk to the digital smaller company, smaller client has an embedded solution already embarked.

因此，商業團隊與網路的整合以及統一帶來了重要的成果。我們對這演變感到非常高興。當然，我們會在不同的領域取得進步，這是我們的觀點，[強調]這是我們公司數位化的一個平台，可以與數位化小公司、小客戶進行交流，並且已經開始了嵌入式解決方案。

So we cannot -- so we have looked not only at more clients, but we've deepened the relationship with the existing clients and with the competitiveness of our offering.

所以我們不能——所以我們不僅關注更多的客戶，而且我們加深了與現有客戶的關係以及我們產品的競爭力。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you, Milton. Let's go to the second question with Thiago Batista from UBS.

謝謝你，彌爾頓。讓我們來討論第二個問題，請瑞銀的蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔 (Thiago Batista) 回答。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good morning, everyone. (spoken in foreign language) Well, it's another result that is constant, and we've grown in -- you have grown in a quarter. My question is about the private Consignado. So two topics on this. But you had the list of the six biggest players, and we have two states, three or four niche and the six would be 80% of the private market share.

大家早安。（用外語說）嗯，這是另一個恆定的結果，我們已經成長了——你已經在一個季度內成長了。我的問題是關於私人 Consignado 的。關於這一點有兩個主題。但你有六大參與者的名單，我們有兩個州，三、四個利基市場，這六家公司佔了私人市場份額的 80%。

And we don't see any of the incumbent, the traditional amongst the players. So how do you position this product? Why you and the other big players, how do you position yourself in this business? What do you imagine that would be -- there would be a cannibalization maybe the exchange for the more expensive income for the other one, so they can file up the debt. So I wanted to understand how do you see this small market, I understand, but how do you see it?

我們沒有看到球員中有任何現任者或傳統者。那麼這款產品您如何定位呢？為什麼您和其他大公司一樣，如何在這個產業中定位自己？您能想像那會是什麼嗎——可能會出現一種蠶食現象，用另一方的更昂貴的收入來交換，這樣他們就可以償還債務。所以我想了解您如何看待這個小市場，我明白，但是您如何看待它？

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Well, thank you. Thank you for this initial consideration. Well, talking about two minutes on the Consignado payroll loan. So our product did unlocks value. There was always an operational limitation on how to do the agreements with the companies on a large scale. We have the solutions via CTPS that is unified via the e-social, and that's a change that is relevant and it makes the market to have a relevant growth.

好的，謝謝你。感謝您的初步考慮。好吧，我們花兩分鐘談論 Consignado 工資貸款。因此我們的產品確實釋放了價值。如何與公司大規模簽訂協議始終存在操作上的限制。我們透過 CTPS 提供透過電子社交統一的解決方案，這是一個相關的變化，它使市場實現相關的成長。

Let me give you a few numbers that can help you in your analysis. First information, this is a market of BRL40 billion, I'm not talking about the BRL10 billion that were disembursed over the last weeks. Now out of the BRL40 billion, Itaú Unibanco has BRL12 billion so what about 30% of that market we have it today because we have a strong penetration in the segment and big agreements.

讓我給你一些可以幫助你進行分析的數字。首先要說的是，這是一個規模為 400 億巴西雷亞爾的市場，我說的不是過去幾週發放的 100 億巴西雷亞爾。現在，在 400 億雷亞爾的市場中，Itaú Unibanco 佔有 120 億雷亞爾，所以我們今天佔有該市場的 30%，因為我們在該領域具有很強的滲透力並簽訂了大協議。

So we have used that strategy of the private payroll loan for a long time. So this Consignado as you've seen with the incumbent banks, it has been since the inception, [Banco do Brasil Casa]. But we've been in the private since the inception of the concession because we -- and we've learned -- this is very important. We've learned throughout these weeks.

因此，我們長期採用私人薪資貸款策略。因此，正如您在現有銀行中看到的，這種 Consignado 自成立以來就一直存在，[巴西銀行]。但自從特許經營開始以來，我們一直處於私營狀態，因為我們——並且我們已經了解到——這非常重要。這幾週我們一直在學習。

And why do we think it's important that we do this counterpoint? The private payroll loan is completely different from any other Consignado that exists. We leave from an anticipation of the withdrawal at the birthday which has less risk and then you drop down in the chain on the risk. And then you have INSS and then you have public companies. It depends whether if you're working with the municipality or attorney.

為什麼我們認為進行這種對位很重要？私人薪資貸款與現有的任何其他 Consignado 貸款完全不同。我們從生日當天提款的預期出發，因為風險較小，然後你在風險鏈中的位置下降。然後你有 INSS，然後你有一家上市公司。這取決於您是否與市政當局或律師合作。

And the private per loan is no different, you have a company and the risk of the of the payer, you have to, of course, take a look at the risk, but you have to work with a combination of the company that do not improve the combination of the risk does not improve on the performance that is respected for their portfolio.

私人貸款也是一樣，你有一家公司和付款人的風險，你當然要看看風險，但你必須與一家公司組合，如果組合沒有改善，風險就不會改善，這對他們的投資組合的表現是有好處的。

So the massive salary man in Brazil it's a BRL120 billion so in the private Consignado is BRL40 billion. So the other BRL80 billion is private that exists for this basis of salary man. So what I'm saying is that if you do the same analysis for the Consignado of the INSS and the public companies, deleveraging of the jump in credit divided by the salary man monthly is 46 times -- 4 times to 6 times. So that BRL120 billion can become [BRL300 billion can become BRL400 billion] in ultra optimistic, but it has a portfolio that has portfolio has a -- they might -- this portfolio might even have a share in the GDP, it can grow a lot very if you are optimistic.

巴西的高薪階層的收入是 1,200 億雷亞爾，而私人 Consignado 的收入是 400 億雷亞爾。因此，另外 800 億巴西雷亞爾是私人財產，用於支付工薪階層的費用。所以我的意思是，如果你對 INSS 的 Consignado 和上市公司進行同樣的分析，那麼信貸增長除以工薪階層每月的去槓桿率就是 46 倍——4 倍到 6 倍。因此，在極其樂觀的情況下，1200 億巴西雷亞爾可以變成 [3000 億巴西雷亞爾可以變成 4000 億巴西雷亞爾]，但它有一個投資組合，這個投資組合有一個——它們可能——這個投資組合甚至可能在 GDP 中佔有一席之地，如果你樂觀的話，它可以增長很多。

So we have to migrate the clients so we don't lose the risk of that client becoming over with too much debt and the program allows that. And number two, you are not subordinate to somebody once you provided a payroll loan, you are under somebody that will have until 35% of their salary being used, you're going to tie down to that.

因此，我們必須轉移客戶，這樣我們就不會失去客戶因負債過多而產生的風險，而該計劃允許這樣做。第二，一旦你提供了薪資貸款，你就不再從屬於某人，而是從屬於某人，直到其薪資的 35% 被使用，你將被束縛在那上面。

So when you look at the risks and you do the testing with all the production that we've done, I would say that 70% of what was produced are people that clients that do not have a bank account with our bank, either we don't have a relationship or we don't have an appetite. For the other 30%, we have our funnel.

因此，當您考慮風險並對我們所做的所有生產進行測試時，我會說 70％ 的產品都是在我們銀行沒有銀行帳戶的客戶，要么我們沒有關係，要么我們沒有興趣。對於剩下的 30%，我們有自己的漏斗。

And remember that one of the rules is to check the ICRC to see if they have a personal loan because then you cannot provide the loan because of the risk of over-indebtedness. So it's a big drop in the funnel when you do that.

請記住，其中一條規則是檢查紅十字國際委員會是否有個人貸款，因為如果是這樣，您將無法提供貸款，因為存在過度負債的風險。因此，當你這樣做時，漏斗中的下降幅度會很大。

And then the third fund, which is risk, which is a metric that combines the risk of the company with the risk of those that take the payroll loan. And we define clearly what is the public that we want to operate and we do not want to operate. So by decision of risk, we decided not to subscribe a lot of the credits that we're taking in the market. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. Our appetite of our risk management is like that.

然後是第三個基金，即風險，它是將公司的風險與那些接受工資貸款的人的風險相結合的指標。而我們明確界定了哪些公眾是我們想經營的，哪些公眾是我們不想經營的。因此，出於風險考慮，我們決定不認購我們在市場上獲得的大量信貸。我並不是說這是對還是錯。我們對風險管理的興趣就是這樣的。

And remember that many of players that are getting in with a lot of appetite, they know less of the risk of the companies, which is our core business for a long time for many years. Since we know a lot of -- about the companies is good.

請記住，許多抱持極大興趣的參與者對公司的風險了解較少，而風險是我們多年來的核心業務。因為我們了解很多——關於這些公司的資訊很好。

Risk management of the companies, if you take a look at our rate management through the cycles, I think that this is the competitive differential because we're going to lose operations, of course. But by a decision, our decision because we do not think that the risk compensates because of the rates that are being practiced.

公司的風險管理，如果你看我們整個週期的利率管理，我認為這就是競爭優勢，因為我們當然會失去營運。但是，根據我們的決定，我們做出這項決定是因為我們認為，根據目前實施的利率，風險不會得到補償。

So this discipline will be very important. Our comparative advantage is the know-how that we've developed all through our time on the management of risk of companies. That provides you capacity for decision-making process that is different.

所以這門學科非常重要。我們的比較優勢是我們在公司風險管理方面所累積的專業知識。這為您提供了不同的決策過程的能力。

I think that there is operational challenges that are imported that we have to observe in the next months when the first payments are going to be done, I think that there is natural evolutions of the platform that will occur. There is the risk of the credit itself.

我認為，在接下來幾個月中，當第一批付款即將完成時，我們必須觀察到一些營運方面的挑戰，我認為平台將會發生自然的演變。信貸本身也存在風險。

We think that losses will be materialized and the delays -- delinquencies will be the same one as the private, but with lower rates, practice, so there is the government. The two biggest public banks. So to highlight the program, and I understand that this is an agenda of growth. Everybody has their own policy. Everybody has their own appetite.

我們認為損失將會實現，拖欠的情況將與私人債務相同，但利率較低，這是政府的做法。兩家最大的公營銀行。因此，為了強調該計劃，我理解這是一個成長議程。每個人都有自己的政策。每個人都有自己的胃口。

And I think that the fintechs that have been working you have to subdivide them into two public. Those are subscribing and taking the more risk because of a lack of knowledge, clearly, but time is to tell. We're going to see and there is regulatory aspects because one of the rules is for you to check the SCR, the Central Risk Management of the Central Bank before providing credits.

我認為，你必須將已經運作的金融科技公司細分為兩種公眾公司。顯然，這些人因為缺乏知識而承擔了更大的風險，但時間會告訴我們一切。我們將會看到，其中有監管方面的問題，因為其中一條規則是在提供信貸之前檢查 SCR，即中央銀行的中央風險管理。

And we've seen a lot of people taking credits and they were in that database. But that's a regulatory base, and that's up to data driven and the government to take a look at that and see how they're going to treat that because they are operating outside of the rule.

我們看到很多人獲得了學分，而這些學分都記錄在資料庫中。但這是一個監管基礎，由數據驅動，政府需要對此進行審查，並了解他們將如何處理，因為他們在規則之外運作。

So I think that there is a mix of everything. And I think that the final message is that we've done portfolios, you're going to see Itaú Unibanco. We have a great expectation about that. We think the BRL40 billion are going to grow a lot. And we would have a fair share, possibly less than 30% that we have today, probably larger than the BRL12 billion of portfolio that we have today, but with a net financial margin that is stable throughout time.

所以我認為一切都是混合的。我認為最後的訊息是我們已經完成了投資組合，你會看到 Itaú Unibanco。我們對此抱持著很大的期望。我們認為 400 億巴西雷亞爾將會大幅成長。我們將擁有公平的份額，可能低於我們今天的 30%，但可能大於我們今天擁有的 120 億巴西雷亞爾的投資組合，但淨財務利潤率始終保持穩定。

So we see that this is a great opportunity, we good at, and we're expanding and we're generating credit with good economic conditions for the takers of these payroll loans, and that has to do with our lifetime value strategy and reducing delinquency on the long term.

因此，我們認為這是一個很好的機會，我們擅長於此，我們正在擴張，我們正在為這些工資貸款的接受者創造良好的經濟條件的信貸，這與我們的終身價值戰略和長期減少拖欠有關。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you, Milton. Complete result -- complete answer to this recurring questions. Eduardo Rosman, BTG Pactual. Rosman, thank you.

謝謝你，彌爾頓。完整的結果－這個反覆出現的問題的完整答案。愛德華多·羅斯曼 (Eduardo Rosman)，BTG Pactual。羅斯曼，謝謝你。

Hello, everyone. Congratulations on the numbers, strong quality. You have digital transformation that has been paying out. My question is what is now? What about now? I think that the threshold is getting ever higher. They are very relevant in a sector that is well penetrated in an economy that does not grow a lot, unfortunately. So how do you generate value? Where is it going to come from? When Itaú closing all banks. It's going to come from abroad help us to with your [BRL0.02] on that?

大家好。祝賀數字，品質強勁。您的數位轉型已取得成效。我的問題是現在怎麼樣？那現在呢？我覺得門檻是越來越高了。不幸的是，它們在一個在經濟中滲透率很高的行業中非常重要，但這個行業並沒有成長很多。那你如何創造價值？它會從哪裡來？當義大利關閉所有銀行時。它會從國外來幫助我們用你的 [BRL0.02] 嗎？

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Well, thank you, Rosman. Always great to see you. Congratulations on the report. And this has to do all the reports as they are published, we read all of them, thank you for the feedback. I would like to say the following Rosman.

好吧，謝謝你，羅斯曼。很高興見到你。祝賀報告成功。所有報告一經發布，我們都會閱讀，感謝您的回饋。我想說的是以下羅斯曼。

You mentioned many of the points. When we look ahead, we still see a lot of opportunities. This opportunity, we have a breakdown in several segments that we work with. Since the bank at the end of the day, is a big holding of capital allocation with a portfolio that is very diverse with businesses that are non-correlated, so correlated, we can have a portfolio that is very well balanced and we can find opportunities in all fronts.

您提到了很多觀點。當我們展望未來時，我們仍然看到很多機會。這次機會，我們將合作細分為幾個部分。由於銀行最終持有大量資本配置，其投資組合非常多樣化，業務不相關，因此我們可以擁有一個非常平衡的投資組合，並且可以在各個方面找到機會。

So when we talk about the business unit the PF, you mentioned One Itaú, the natural persons, we are very excited. In the next quarter, I'm going to show you some early indicators of what we've managed to do through One Itaú, is very exciting to see the results, the initial results.

因此，當我們談論業務部門 PF 時，您提到了 One Itaú，即自然人，我們感到非常興奮。在下個季度，我將向你們展示我們透過 One Itaú 所取得成果的一些早期指標，看到這些成果，即初步成果，我感到非常興奮。

First, the migration of the [15 million clients that we can -- that we migrated until the end of the year, we've migrated already 8 million]. So until the end of the year, we should finish the total migration, 99.1% migration, that's the rate precise.

首先，[截至今年底，我們已經遷移了 1500 萬客戶，其中 800 萬]。所以到今年年底，我們應該要完成全部遷移，99.1%的遷移，這是準確的遷移率。

So zero attrition and the NPS of those are migrated above 85. So you changed you migrated no attrition. And the customer experience is 85 that's very encouraging. And then you get into a stage of offering a full bank for the client that had a model linear experience, and that full bank experience has had great value in the penetration of products, accounts payable, opening new relations. And now we start to advance in the breadth of the portfolio of the bank, we segmented all the bases. We have clients in all the segments.

因此，客戶流失率為零，且 NPS 上升至 85 以上。所以你改變了，你遷移了，沒有人員流失。客戶體驗達到 85，非常令人鼓舞。然後，您進入為擁有模型線性體驗的客戶提供全套銀行服務的階段，而全套銀行體驗在產品滲透、應付帳款、建立新關係方面具有巨大價值。現在我們開始擴大銀行投資組合的廣度，我們對所有基礎進行了細分。我們的客戶遍佈各個領域。

And in the next quarter, me and Renato, we already discussed of bringing some indicators or you can have an idea of what we are discussing. A great deal of the growth in the natural person comes from that and gain market share.

在下個季度，我和雷納托已經討論過帶來一些指標，或者您可以了解我們正在討論的內容。自然人的成長很大一部分來自於此並獲得市場份額。

We are more competitive, this is -- we have all the conditions of continuing to grow. Of course, the GDP is important, growth of activities, but we continue with opportunities of combining the market and gaining market share in the segments that we really understand that we can have a differential value proposition that is different. And for that, we are moving. We are in constant movement.

我們的競爭力更強了，這就是－我們擁有繼續成長的所有條件。當然，GDP 和活動的成長很重要，但我們會繼續抓住機會整合市場，並在我們真正了解的領域中獲得市場份額，從而實現不同的差異化價值主張。為此，我們正在行動。我們始終處於運動之中。

Just to give you an overview on the digital transformation, we mobilized 300 journeys in the bank, experiences and in the business unit for natural persons, the companies. We launched over 18 products, new products. These are inserted in the journeys of our clients. And all of them with a great output level of engagement, increasing level of adoption, very high. So we are very excited with our new capacity to develop solutions and solving the pains of the clients with the speed that we had.

為了讓您對數位轉型有一個大致的了解，我們在銀行、經驗以及自然人和公司業務部門中動員了 300 次旅程。我們推出了超過 18 種產品，新產品。這些都插入到我們客戶的旅程中。所有這些措施都具有很高的參與度，採用率也不斷提高，非常高。因此，我們對我們的新能力感到非常興奮，我們能夠以現有的速度開發解決方案並解決客戶的痛點。

We are surprised every day with our capacity of generating impact, 300 journeys modernized, 18 products launched. If you get into our super app, you're going to see the campaign that we've just seen that. And in the companies, BU, we've gained market share in also the wholesale, we've had great opportunities. We had a great penetration we -- our business of agribusiness has grown very solidly. We've opened new fronts at Itaú BBA, all of them performing very well.

我們每天都對自己產生影響的能力感到驚訝，300 次旅程實現了現代化，18 種產品推出。如果您進入我們的超級應用程序，您將會看到我們剛剛看到的活動。在公司業務部門，我們在批發市場也獲得了市場份額，我們獲得了巨大的機會。我們的農業綜合業務滲透率很高，成長非常穩健。我們在 Itaú BBA 開闢了新戰線，所有戰線都表現得非常出色。

So I think that there is still opportunities. And the central point here and now welcoming Gabriel here as the CFO official and all the calls present from now on, Gabriel besides his great CV, he's going to be the leader of our agenda of cost efficiencies, also looking up ahead. And we see here that there is an opportunity that is very big to continue to advance. And I think that we needed to go through this modernization process.

所以我認為還是有機會的。現在的中心點是歡迎加布里埃爾 (Gabriel) 擔任首席財務官，從現在開始，加布里埃爾 (Gabriel) 除了擁有出色的簡歷外，還將成為我們成本效率議程的領導者，並展望未來。我們看到，我們有很大機會繼續前進。我認為我們需要經歷這個現代化過程。

I discussed this what we have to turn off that mainframe the discussion that the big bank operates in the mainframe, we see that being closed in the future, but we are in this process of closing cycle, and so that we can have a modernized bank 100% online, running on the cloud or a few things, something that doesn't make sense to the cloud, of course, continuing with the mainframe and with efficiencies, which is the last stage that is very relevant, especially on the natural persons clients. And this is the next stage.

我討論了我們必須關閉大型機的問題，大型銀行在大型機中運營的討論，我們看到它在未來會被關閉，但我們正處於關閉週期的過程中，這樣我們就可以擁有一個 100％ 在線的現代化銀行，在雲端運行或一些東西，當然，這對雲端來說沒有意義，繼續使用大型機並提高一個非常重要的效率，這對最後一個人來說是一個非常重要。這是下一階段。

So we can service to clients in the different segments with the value proposition that is adequate, but with the cost of service that is correct. And with that we can service our current clients, the Super App is not even a pilot anymore. I mean it's a lot of clients of those that migrated, and also other clients of the of the banks, this is going to be a new level of growth with an efficiency level that is lower.

因此，我們可以為不同領域的客戶提供適當的價值主張和正確的服務成本。這樣我們就可以為現有客戶提供服務，超級應用程式甚至不再是試點計畫。我的意思是，對於許多遷移的客戶以及銀行的其他客戶來說，這將是一個新的成長水平，但效率水平較低。

Part of the evolution of the bank has to do with that. So we are optimistic with everything that we've achieved of course, correlated with the activities and the we have the nominal GDP growing, but still with a lot of opportunities to be captured.

銀行的演變部分與此有關。因此，我們對所取得的一切成就都感到樂觀，當然，這與我們的活動有關，而且我們的名目 GDP 在增長，但仍有很多機會有待把握。

Thank you, Milton. For the next question, we're going to switch English as we always do because that comes from Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs. Tito great to see you. Thanks so much for joining the call today.

謝謝你，彌爾頓。對於下一個問題，我們將像往常一樣切換英語，因為這個問題來自高盛的 Tito Labarta。蒂托很高興見到你。非常感謝您今天參加電話會議。

Great. Thanks, Renato. Thanks Milton, Gabriel. Good to see you guys. Thank you for the call. My question is on the financial margin with the clients. I think very good performance, particularly in a seasonally tough quarter and also given the high base you already have there. Just looking at the year over year rates running a bit above the guidance. I mean, you sounded a bit constructive, Milton a bit before on the potential growth outlook.

偉大的。謝謝，雷納托。謝謝米爾頓、加布里埃爾。很高興見到你們。謝謝您的來電。我的問題是關於與客戶的財務利潤。我認為表現非常好，特別是在季節性艱難的季度，並考慮到你們已經擁有的高基數。僅從年比來看，利率略高於預期。我的意思是，米爾頓之前對潛在成長前景的看法聽起來有點建設性。

So could there be potential upside? Or just help us think about the continued growth of the financial margin with clients and also maybe beginning to think about, well, maybe we saw the last rate hike earlier this week and maybe the market is beginning to price in potentially lower rates later in the year. So just help us how do you think about that financial margin with the clients given sort of the current environment and potentially the rest of the year? Thank you.

那麼可能存在潛在的上漲空間嗎？或者只是幫助我們思考客戶的財務利潤的持續增長，也許還開始思考，也許我們在本週早些時候看到了最後一次加息，也許市場開始將今年晚些時候可能出現的較低利率計入價格。那麼請幫助我們，考慮到當前的環境以及今年剩餘時間的潛在影響，您如何看待客戶的財務利潤？謝謝。

Thank you, Tito, good to see you, too. Always a pleasure to have you here with us. Let me start saying that we are very positive with the financial margin with clients, of course. When we do our budget, we take in consideration the level of interest rate, we had planned or budget those hikes that we've seen so far. Let's see what happens in the next meeting.

謝謝你，蒂托，我也很高興見到你。我們很高興您能與我們在一起。首先我要說的是，我們當然對與客戶的財務利潤持非常樂觀的態度。當我們制定預算時，我們會考慮利率水平，我們已經計劃或預算了迄今為止所看到的加息。讓我們看看下次會議會發生什麼。

But at the end of the day, all of them somehow are incorporated in our guidance that we released in the beginning of the year. So we are positive.

但最終，所有這些都以某種方式納入了我們年初發布的指導中。所以我們很樂觀。

I still believe that the guidance is the best information that we have today. But if I had to choose a geography, I would say that we would be much more close to the top of the guidance with the financial margin with the clients that in the average or the midpoint of the average of the guidance. So my view is that the range still absorbs our best expectation, but we are positive we can deliver a year to the top of the range. This is our best estimative expectation, I would say, today.

我仍然相信，該指南是我們今天所掌握的最佳資訊。但如果我必須選擇一個地理位置，我會說，我們與客戶的財務利潤將更接近指導的最高點，而不是指導的平均值或平均值的中點。因此，我的觀點是，該範圍仍然吸收了我們的最佳預期，但我們確信我們可以在一年內達到該範圍的最高值。我想說，這是我們今天最好的估計預期。

A lot of opportunities. As you saw, the average balance of our portfolio has been very positive in this quarter. We had those seasonal effects of last calendar days, business days and also current days. But in general, all the operations performing very, very well.

很多機會。如您所見，本季我們投資組合的平均餘額非常正。我們受到了過去日曆日、工作日以及當前日期的季節性影響。但總體而言，所有操作都表現得非常非常好。

Of course, the interest rate has an impact as well being on the spread of the investments and the deposits that we have in the bank, but also on the working capital of the bank that has been increasing quarter over quarter. So overall, positive, and I believe we can deliver the top of the range by the year-end.

當然，利率不僅會影響我們在銀行的投資和存款的利差，還會影響銀行的營運資本，而營運資本的逐季都在增加。所以總體而言，情況是積極的，我相信我們能夠在年底前交付最高端的產品。

Thanks, Milton. Now going back to Portuguese. We have Marcelo Mizrahi. Good luck, you're BBI. Welcome to the call.

謝謝，米爾頓。現在回到葡萄牙語。我們有馬塞洛·米茲拉希。祝你好運，你是 BBI。歡迎來電洽詢。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Well, it's an honor to be here after so many 20 years as an investor analyzing the bank on the other side. So my question, a lot of them were answered but when we think that when Itaú the market opportunities that One Itaú can bring, we think about the segments where Itaú can have an increase of market share. So credit card is a big market share. We have an opportunity for growth. But maybe the question for -- I would be thinking about the platform of investment.

嗯，作為一個投資者，在分析另一邊的銀行二十年後，我很榮幸來到這裡。所以我的問題很多都得到了回答，但是當我們想到 One Ita 可以帶來的市場機會時，我們會考慮 Ita 可以增加市場份額的細分市場。所以信用卡的市佔率很大。我們有一個成長的機會。但也許問題是──我會考慮投資平台。

How do you think the platform investment in a sense that One Itaú with the type of client that One Itaú bring will be opening an opportunity for growing in the retail, what would be possible to develop so that Itaú can bring a client for the platform of investments that already exists already was a discussion of what was the lessons learned during the development of íon.

您如何看待 One Itaú 平台投資以及 One Itaú 帶來的客戶類型將為零售業的成長帶來機會，可以進行哪些開發以便 Itaú 可以為已經存在的投資平台帶來客戶，這是關於在 One Itaú 開發過程中吸取的教訓的討論。

So how do you think about this business segment once that the bank is not a shareholder of XP. I think that there is an issue that can be identified that is very different.

那麼一旦銀行不再是 XP 的股東，您又該如何看待這個事業部門呢？我認為可以確定一個非常不同的問題。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Well, thank you, Marcelo. Congratulations, one of the challenges. Thank you for the questions. Well, first of all, One Itaú is very important to say since we have it being born from the origin of credit cards in each which are the two big public that are being migrated, we don't think that is necessarily in the credit card, there's always going to be an opportunity because it's always the same client operating with us and sometimes they come through a specific product, and we have the capacity of broadening the offering of credit cards for this line.

好吧，謝謝你，馬塞洛。恭喜，挑戰之一。謝謝您的提問。嗯，首先，One Itaú 非常重要，因為它誕生於信用卡的起源，這兩個大公眾都在進行遷移，我們認為這不一定是在信用卡中，總是會有一個機會，因為總是同一個客戶與我們合作，有時他們通過特定的產品來，我們有能力擴大此系列的信用卡供應。

Number two, when you segment this space. A 50 million clients, you can see that there is clients from all the segments. We have a low income in Itaú it ours, we have the average income on the class, and we have the affluent of the personality. Of course other than one or the other clients from private. But I would say that this is concentrated in PF in the natural person segment.

第二，當你分割這個空間。5000 萬客戶，你可以看到有來自各個細分市場的客戶。我們在義大利屬於低收入階層，我們在階層上屬於平均收入階層，我們在個性上屬於富裕階層。當然，除了來自私人的一個或其他客戶之外。但我想說的是，這主要集中在自然人領域的 PF。

So the opportunity not only goes through the evolution of the credit relationship of that client, but products and solutions. So you can evolve in the transactions, accounts payable, you can bring a flow to the back all the features that we launched for the clients to seized our resources, anticipation of the fix credit, you start to lever within the platform itself and investments and the model of attention [Nicholas and personality] is also something that we can offer for these clients, all the programs and advantages for the clients.

因此，機會不僅體現在客戶信用關係的演變，也體現在產品和解決方案的演變。因此，您可以在交易、應付帳款方面不斷發展，您可以將流程帶到我們為客戶推出的所有功能後面，以利用我們的資源，預期修復信用，您開始在平臺本身和投資中發揮作用，關注模型[尼古拉斯和個性]也是我們可以為這些客戶提供的，為客戶提供所有的計劃和優勢。

So we see an opportunity for cross-sell, now solving the pains of the clients and increasing operations with this client and investment is one of them. And here of I link with íon. We are very satisfied with the evolution of íon throughout the year.

因此，我們看到了交叉銷售的機會，現在解決客戶的痛點並增加與該客戶的業務和投資就是其中之一。在這裡我與 Ãon 聯繫在一起。我們對Ãon全年的發展感到非常滿意。

It has an extraordinary result so when we see in the natural process is very strong and the íon has always worked with managers, which is a specialized sales force, specifically in personality in the class. And they also talk about investments in other products banking, credit, real estate credit and all the other clients.

它有一個非凡的結果，所以當我們在自然過程中看到它非常強大時，Ãon 一直與經理們合作，他們是一支專業的銷售隊伍，特別是在班級裡的個性方面。他們也談論對其他產品銀行、信貸、房地產信貸和所有其他客戶的投資。

That composition and that logic of the specialist has brought really results that are very strong. We're very excited with all the evolution when we compare it to the market, and our capacity for generating value, we are very satisfied when we measure the flow, its' very positive.

專家的這種構想和邏輯確實帶來了非常有力的成果。當我們將其與市場和我們創造價值的能力進行比較時，我們對所有的發展感到非常興奮，當我們衡量流量時，我們非常滿意，這是非常積極的。

íon has a scalability that is that is limited because that model where you have the human attention. It works for a specific public of clients, but for a more scalable public, which is a great deal of what is being migrated to One Itaú. We need to have a solution that is more intelligent for servicing the scalable client.

Ãon 具有可擴展性，但這是有限的，因為該模型需要人類的注意力。它適用於特定的客戶群體，但適用於更具可擴展性的公眾，這是遷移到 One Itaú 的大部分內容。我們需要一個更聰明的解決方案來服務可擴展的客戶端。

And I was at the web summit last week, and I was discussing that we're launching, we're with a pilot with a wealth specialist of investment powered by artificial intelligence. So this is something that we've been working for a long time.

上週我參加了網路高峰會，討論了我們正在推出的試點項目，該項目由人工智慧驅動的財富投資專家提供。這是我們長期以來一直在努力的事情。

We've turned the year with pilots and testing. We scale -- we've done the scalability of the test. And this is a question, well, what about the models of LLM and all the artificial intelligence that is available for everything? What is your edge?

我們已開展了試點和測試，迎來了新的一年。我們進行了擴展——我們已經完成了測試的可擴展性。這是一個問題，那麼，LLM 模型和所有可用於一切的人工智慧又如何呢？你的優勢是什麼？

I think that there is a combination for under bank which is the combination of all the know-how that we've acquired because we are a platform that is very strong and the investments in Brazil the main platform of investment in Brazil when you look at the know-how and the management of investment and all the learnings that we have of the open platform combined with the artificial intelligence, you can train our agents in artificial intelligence with data that sometimes you're not going to happen in the market, somebody that can have a great technology but doesn't have the behavior or the expertise of allocating and curatorship of the clients.

我認為對於銀行而言，有一個組合，即我們所獲得的所有專業知識的組合，因為我們是一個非常強大的平台，當你看到專業知識和投資管理以及我​​們在開放平台上與人工智能相結合的所有經驗時，巴西的投資是巴西投資的主要平台，你可以用數據培訓我們的客戶管理，而有時你不會在市場上看到這些

This combination is very powerful, and it will allow us to scale our relationship with the clients in the world of investment. So we are in an early stage. We are -- have to learn about what are important when you discuss investment you have to create a the guardrails, so you can be careful, but the results have been very encouraging.

這種結合非常強大，它將使我們能夠擴大與投資領域客戶的關係。因此我們還處於早期階段。我們必須了解，當你討論投資時什麼是重要的，你必須建立護欄，這樣你才能小心謹慎，但結果非常令人鼓舞。

And we hope to scale this solution of a -- and it's connected all throughout the Superapp, it's not a chatbot. It's an artificial intelligent experience that will give you greater ship and consultancy and will help you with the management of your investments with all the training and the that we've acquired all throughout the year. And this will help us scale the platform of One Itaú and other relationships that we've had with the clients that are of the bank that need a more specialized service.

我們希望擴大這個解決方案的規模——它與整個超級應用程式相連，它不是一個聊天機器人。這是一種人工智慧體驗，它將為您提供更好的船舶和諮詢，並將透過我們全年獲得的所有培訓和知識幫助您管理投資。這將有助於我們擴大 One Itaú 平台以及我們與需要更專業服務的銀行客戶建立的其他關係。

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

美國銀行的馬裡奧·皮埃里 (Mario Pierry)。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good morning, everyone. Congratulations on the results, very predictable. We see an improvement quarter on quarter, and the market appreciates that. So Milton, a question for you were about expenses. You've shown that the bank has done a great job, and we have the lower threshold, but when we look you closed almost 0% of your branches all throughout the year.

大家早安。祝賀這個結果，非常可預測。我們看到季度環比有所改善，市場對此表示讚賞。米爾頓，你的問題是關於費用的。你已經證明了銀行做得很好，而且我們的門檻較低，但我們發現你們全年關閉的分行比例幾乎為 0%。

And your number of employees, excluding technology, dropped just 2%. So today, where we see the number of employees per branch is 32 a year later was 29. So I need to understand how do you see that metric evolving and if there is still space for building branches because every call we hear, investment in technology, why that?

而你們的員工數量（不包括技術人員）僅下降了 2%。所以今天我們看到每個分公司的員工人數是 32 人，而一年後是 29 人。所以我需要了解您如何看待該指標的發展，以及是否仍有建立分支機構的空間，因為我們聽到的每一個電話，都在進行技術投資，為什麼呢？

I wanted to understand from you, how do you see the function of the physical branches from now on? We have a survey we see that the people still have a value of going to the branch. So what would be the ideal number of branches and number of employees per branches.

我想從您那裡了解，您現在如何看待物理分支的功能？我們進行了一項調查，發現人們仍然重視去分行。那麼理想的分支機構數量和每個分支機構的員工數量是多少？

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you, Mario. Always great to see you in our calls as well. I think that the question is very good, Mario. And let me give you a few data that can help you in your train of thought. Well, first of all, we don't have an objective before we don't think about we're going to close so many branches. Of course, we do the forecasts. We do the analysis, it's a very complex algorithm. It's not simple. We don't want to close, we want to close. We look at a lot of variables to geography clients.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。我們也很高興在通話中見到您。我認為這個問題問得很好，馬裡奧。讓我提供你一些可以幫助你思考的數據。嗯，首先，在我們考慮關閉這麼多分支機構之前，我們沒有目標。當然，我們會做預測。我們進行了分析，這是一個非常複雜的演算法。這並不簡單。我們不想關閉，我們想關閉。我們會考慮地理客戶的許多變數。

penetration of the branch in the region. The result of that branch, the capacity of doing the scalability of that agency or now the distance between the branches can we service that client in a central branch and have a business branches more satellite.

分支機構在該地區滲透率。該分支機構的結果，即該機構可擴展的能力，或現在分支機構之間的距離，我們可以在中央分支機構為客戶提供服務，並擁有更多的衛星業務分支機構。

So this is an analysis that we've done daily by our team. And this is an important point. Well, there is a point that there's a great deal of these branches, we are migrating to digital branches. It's a completely different model of servicing. The cost of service is much lower and with the scalability and the capacity of adjusting the account loads in a very important way.

這是我們團隊每天進行的分析。這是一個重要的觀點。嗯，有一點是，有很多這樣的分支機構，我們正在遷移到數位分支機構。這是一種完全不同的服務模式。服務成本低得多，並且具有可擴展性和以非常重要的方式調整帳戶負載的能力。

Second aspect, when we close the agencies that we close, we always look at the distance, how many kilometers we are from the next agency, will that generate attrition with the clients that will service us or not. So in the end, depending with the distance, we have a reduction when we close an agency because a great deal of the managers of relationship given that the account loans are finite, we can transfer the commercial teams that these clients.

第二個方面，當我們關閉要關閉的代理商時，我們總是會考慮距離，我們與下一個代理商的距離是多少公里，這是否會導致為我們提供服務的客戶流失。因此，最終，根據距離的不同，當我們關閉一家代理商時，我們會獲得折扣，因為許多關係經理認為帳戶貸款是有限的，我們可以轉移這些客戶的商業團隊。

We decreased the work of those things, maintaining quality, maturing NPS, and we are just as necessary. So in fact, this quarter, if you take a look, there was a reduction of 100 branches. We know that the model digital has an important -- it's important for the medium high income, low income is less efficient to service and all the work that we've done to make our journey digital and making the Superapp digital makes us have a more competitive value proposition because once again, our objective is to service the client in a way that they want to be serviced.

我們減少了這些事情的工作，保持質量，完善NPS，我們同樣有必要。事實上，如果你看一下這個季度，你會發現分行減少了 100 家。我們知道數位化模式對於中高收入者來說非常重要，低收入者的服務效率較低，我們為實現數位化旅程和超級應用數位化所做的所有工作使我們擁有更具競爭力的價值主張，因為再一次，我們的目標是以客戶希望的方式為他們提供服務。

So we don't close the branch brute force simply because we want to adjust the cost and we reduced structure because when you do that, you are taking away top line as well. Relevant top line and your leaving the clients without service where we need to service the clients with the right price.

因此，我們不會因為想要調整成本而關閉分支部門，而且我們會減少結構，因為當你這樣做時，你也會帶走頂線。相關的頂線和你離開客戶沒有服務，我們需要以合適的價格為客戶提供服務。

So that these models of attention are sustainable in the long term, and this is the work that we've been doing on throughout time. The digitalization will allow us to adjust the business model, so we can be competitive with an efficiency level that is adequate so we can service the different publics. And should we, in fact, take on more credit losses in the more vulnerable public is not the very low income.

因此這些注意力模型才能長期持續下去，這也是我們一直在做的工作。數位化將使我們能夠調整商業模式，從而以足夠的效率保持競爭力，為不同的公眾提供服務。而實際上，我們應該承擔更多信貸損失的，更脆弱的公眾並不是那些收入極低的人。

This is not a public that we have a target objective, but the low-income clients that are resilient in a long credit cycle. So there is a shuffling that we've been doing. And the important is to see the evolution, the direction of the evolution and the work has been built from the base upwards.

我們所針對的並不是公眾，而是在長期信貸週期中具有韌性的低收入客戶。所以我們一直在進行調整。重要的是看到演變、演變的方向以及從基礎向上建構的工作。

So now you're going to see in the future evolutions in these indicators, I will give you more clarity naturally of what is our strategy. But it's one step at a time. We are aware of the challenges. But we want to do things well done. We want to take care of the clients, the people in the bank and all the transition has to be done in the best it's very possible. We're in the process, this in process that will be picking up speed throughout the next years.

所以現在您將看到這些指標的未來演變，我會自然而然地向您更清楚地說明我們的策略是什麼。但這只是一步一步來。我們意識到了這些挑戰。但我們想把事情做好。我們希望照顧好客戶、銀行員工，所有的過渡都必須盡可能以最好的方式完成。我們正處於這一過程中，這一過程將在未來幾年加速進行。

Thank you, Mario. And now Renato Meloni from Autonomous. Welcome to the call.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。現在，我們來談談來自 Autonomous 的 Renato Meloni。歡迎來電洽詢。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for the opportunity, congratulations on the consistency of results. First of all, let's go back to your answer on the financial margin of clients. If we -- well, you're running well above the guidance now. So the issue of the deceleration of growth has been clear.

大家早安。感謝這次機會，祝賀結果的一致性。首先，讓我們回到您對客戶財務利潤的答案。如果我們——那麼，你現在的表現已經遠遠超出了預期。因此，成長放緩的問題已經很明顯了。

But if we take that margin with the end of guidance okay, you're still running above what you already mentioned. So I wanted to understand, within that implicit compression. Where do you see the biggest risk among the segments that we are decelerating? How will that influence the mix? Or will that come from the increase of the cost of funding?

但是，如果我們在指導結束時採用這個幅度，那麼你仍然會高於你已經提到的水平。所以我想了解一下這種隱式壓縮的情況。您認為在我們減速的領域中，最大的風險是什麼？這將如何影響混合？或者說這是由於融資成本的增加所致？

And secondly, can you mention the evolution of the sector credit where is the biggest risk and how is the bank positioning itself for that?

其次，您能否談談信貸產業的演變，其中最大的風險是什麼，以及銀行如何為此定位？

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you, Renato. Thank you and what I wanted to tell you is that when we look at the margin, well, first of all, portfolio, this is a central point. We've seen the portfolios perform within what we expected, average income coming up. We have a volatility in -- because of the exchange, but the exchange Gabriel is always there monitoring the effect. So this is an outlook that we have a constant on look so we have to look at the average numbers that I just presented to you.

謝謝你，雷納托。謝謝，我想告訴你的是，當我們看利潤時，首先，投資組合，這是一個中心點。我們看到投資組合的表現符合我們的預期，平均收入正在上升。由於交易所的原因，我們存在波動，但交易所加布里埃爾 (Gabriel) 始終在監控其影響。因此，這是我們不斷關注的前景，所以我們必須查看我剛才向您展示的平均數字。

Second aspect that I wanted to mention to you. The interest rate itself it's a pass through for margin that is slower. And why is it lower? Because we do hedging of those positions. So with the interest rate, it's a low cycle and the interest rate drops very a lot.

我想向大家提及的第二個面向。利率本身就是保證金的傳導機制，速度較慢。為什麼會更低呢？因為我們對這些部位進行了對沖。因此，就利率而言，這是一個低週期，利率下降幅度非常大。

We take longer to proceed this drop because the portfolio works in a very ruled way. So that increase in the interest rate, there is a pass-through, we predicted it. So we can observe in the working capital, that effect of the CDI.

我們花了更長的時間來完成這一下降，因為投資組合的運作方式非常規律。因此，利率上升有一個傳導過程，我們對此進行了預測。因此，我們可以在營運資本中觀察到 CDI 的影響。

General lines, you can see an annualized margin that is relatively stable with small oscillations. The adjusted margin to the risk is relevant to the capital because at the end of the day, we published and you've seen that our margin adjusted to the risk is the best one of this year since the fourth quarter of 2019. So when we look at the projections of the margin adjusted for the risk in the payroll loan, it can have in consolidated, sorry, these are small effects with a very solid effect. This is the important thing.

整體來看，可以看到年化利潤率比較穩定，波動較小。調整後的風險保證金與資本相關，因為最終我們公佈了，並且您已經看到，我們調整後的風險保證金是自 2019 年第四季以來今年最好的。因此，當我們查看根據工資貸款風險調整後的保證金預測時，它可能會產生合併的影響，抱歉，這些影響很小，但效果非常明顯。這是最重要的事。

The risks. I think that we understand that the portfolio will continue to perform as we expected. We don't see a risk in spread in our portfolio, the increase in the interest rate, somehow reprices capital markets less competitive, even though we had a quarter with good activity less than last year.

風險。我認為我們知道投資組合將繼續按照我們的預期表現。我們認為我們的投資組合利差不存在風險，利率上升會以某種方式降低資本市場的競爭力，儘管我們本季的表現不如去年同期好。

So we have more operations for the balance sheet and the demand that naturally with this level of interest rates, tends to be less. The companies and the people do less consumption and less decisions on purchasing. And we feel that but we are constructive in regards to the financial margin with the clients, positive that we will have a solid year in the value delivery.

因此，我們對資產負債表進行了更多的操作，而在這種利率水準下，需求自然會減少。企業和個人的消費減少，購買決策也減少。我們也感覺到了這一點，但我們對與客戶的財務利潤持建設性態度，並確信我們將在價值交付方面擁有堅實的一年。

And you did a complement on the first question. It was just about the margin, it was about the credit cycle. How do I see the credit cycle? The credit cycle is the following. We can see good indicators that are favorable. We wanted to open the short delays because since we are in an expected loss and we are been working with expected loss for a long time.

您對第一個問題做了補充。這只是關於利潤，關於信貸週期。我如何看待信貸週期？信貸週期如下。我們可以看到有利的良好指標。我們希望打開短暫的延遲，因為我們處於預期損失之中，我們已經在預期損失中工作了很長時間。

We have to look at the dynamics of the short delays because it gives you the tips of what's up ahead. And it's a short-term those short delays that will bring the provisions. In a model that is very sensible with the expected loss when you see delinquency in natural persons growing in 26 basis points. And what we wanted to show with two decimal points is that we follow this factor with the average rate.

我們必須專注於短暫延誤的動態，因為它可以為你提供未來可能發生情況的提示。這些短暫的延遲將會帶來短期的後果。當你看到自然人的犯罪率成長 26 個基點時，這個模型對預期損失來說是非常合理的。我們想要用兩位小數來表示的是，我們用平均利率來遵循這個因素。

And that's about 30, 40, I would say, more than 40 than 30 because there were a few years that, that logic was discontinued post-pandemic in the past was very low. But we see a process of derisking that was very high in the portfolio.

我想說，這個比例大約是 30% 或 40%，比 30% 多，因為有幾年，這種邏輯在疫情後就被廢除了，而且比例非常低。但我們看到投資組合中去風險的過程非常高。

So this is a quarter that is more typical with the quality of portfolio that is very good. So that's why we're running in those thresholds. That's the big indicator so that's why we -- when we look about the provisions of other formation, that ends up being higher than 100%. It has to do with the double effect. The formation is very good because the portfolio is performing very well.

因此，這是一個比較典型的季度，投資組合的品質非常好。這就是我們在這些門檻內奔跑的原因。這是一個重要的指標，因此，當我們查看其他編制的規定時，其比例最終會高於 100%。這與雙重效應有關。這種形成非常好，因為投資組合表現非常好。

All the work of credit that we've been doing throughout the years. But with an expected loss that is since the short term, with the natural persons happened in this quarter, it brings more provisions. So that's why we provision 120% of the formation in this quarter. And now throughout the time, we imagine that there's going to be a reduction that is natural. That's why we pay attention to the short term.

我們多年來一直在做信貸工作。但考慮到短期內預期的損失，加上本季發生的自然人損失，會帶來更多的撥備。這就是我們在本季提供 120% 資金的原因。現在，我們想像隨著時間的推移，這種情況將自然減少。這就是我們關注短期的原因。

When you see the segments and then you see the natural persons. PME -- the SMEs, the big effects of denominator with the big companies and any change that you do in the methodology of write-off, can lead you to have distorted indicators.

當你看到片段時，你會看到自然人。PME－中小企業，對大公司的分母影響很大，而且在註銷方法上所做的任何改變都可能導致指標扭曲。

So since we didn't change the criteria, the indicators are comparable, and that's for all the products. So the cycle is benign, but we are cautious because we see indicators of utilization a little bit of consumption liquidity, using the working capital of the companies. This is a quarter that is pressured.

因此，由於我們沒有改變標準，因此指標是可比較的，並且適用於所有產品。因此，週期是良性的，但我們持謹慎態度，因為我們看到利用率指標，即利用一點消費流動性，使用公司的營運資金。這是一個充滿壓力的季度。

When we project our indicators of credit up ahead, we have a comfortable stability, except with the SMEs that we mentioned that there's going to be a normalization over the last two quarters, but they were below what we expect that is reasonable.

當我們預測未來的信貸指標時，我們有一個舒適的穩定性，除了我們提到的中小企業在過去兩個季度將恢復正常，但它們低於我們的合理預期。

So I don't foresee well, but the market is more nervous. We see clients that want to discuss. But as I told you, our portfolio has never been so resilient. For a challenging scenario, if it's up to see, we don't see a credit crunch. The liquidity in the capital markets is still strong, and we're going to see the evolution. Our portfolio is very healthy. The delinquencies are well behaved, and we are very excited with the perspective.

所以我的預測不太好，但市場更緊張。我們看到客戶想要討論。但正如我所說的，我們的投資組合從未如此具有彈性。對於一個具有挑戰性的情況，如果可以預見的話，我們不會看到信貸緊縮。資本市場的流動性依然強勁，我們將看到其演變。我們的投資組合非常健康。違法行為得到很好的處理，我們對前景感到非常興奮。

[Matteos Marais is from XP]. Welcome to our earnings call.

[Matteos Marais 來自 XP]。歡迎參加我們的收益電話會議。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good morning, Ronal, Milton, Gabriel. Thank you for the opportunity of asking a question and congratulations on the results. I want to ask a question about the cost of funding. I think that the financial margin is still very strong, and we see a few competitors with strategies of cost of funding.

早安，羅納、米爾頓、加百列。感謝您提供的提問機會，並對結果表示祝賀。我想問一個有關融資成本的問題。我認為財務利潤率仍然很高，我們看到一些競爭對手採取了融資成本策略。

I wanted to understand if you foresee that there is a space for some improvement in that indicator or if eventually some changes that the competitors are doing, and they're going to be opening opportunities for you, that would be more aggressive in that point. That would be the first.

我想了解的是，您是否預見到該指標還有改進的空間，或者競爭對手最終會做出一些改變，而他們會為您打開機會，那麼在這一點上您會採取更積極的行動。這是第一次。

And if you allow me, follow-up on the question early on about the private payroll loan and it's clear the subordination issue, whether it's credit loan with our guarantees or the payroll loan that already existed. But my question is about the subordination in the credit card because with the launching of the private payer loan with the app [Cartera delo] the client it could take a debt in the bank -- maybe they didn't even have a relationship in the day before. So can it affect the appetite in the segment of the credit card?

如果您允許的話，請我提前跟進有關私人工資貸款的問題，很明顯存在從屬問題，無論是我們擔保的信用貸款還是已經存在的工資貸款。但我的問題是關於信用卡的從屬關係，因為隨著應用程式 [Cartera delo] 推出私人付款人貸款，客戶可能會在銀行借款——也許他們之前甚至沒有關係。那麼它是否會影響信用卡領域的興趣呢？

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Well, thank you, Matteos. Great to see you. Thank you for the question. Now starting about the cost of funding, depends on how you see the cost of funding and a strong statement. In the end, of course, we have a cost of funding that is optimized in the bank because of all the business lines that we operate these are products of treasury, et cetera.

好吧，謝謝你，馬特奧斯。很高興見到你。謝謝你的提問。現在開始談論融資成本，取決於你如何看待融資成本和強有力的聲明。當然，最終我們的銀行融資成本會得到最佳化，因為我們經營的所有業務線都是財務部門的產品，等等。

So our cost of funding all the flow of clients that we have in the bank, the cash management. Well, the we are centered in the relationship with our natural persons clients and so the cost of funding is optimized. So if you see the deposits in the portfolio of natural persons, we have the best relationship with the market. So it shows that we are a solid franchise for our investment in a solid alternative for our clients.

因此，我們的資金成本是為銀行中所有客戶流量、現金管理提供資金。嗯，我們以與自然人客戶的關係為中心，因此融資成本得到了最佳化。因此，如果你看到自然人投資組合中的存款，你會發現我們與市場的關係最好。因此，這表明我們是一家實力雄厚的特許經營企業，我們為客戶投資了可靠的替代方案。

But the most important thing to see is that there is a client on the other side. So here is where we do the segment of franchise. We want and we will continue to be a strong franchise of investment for our clients. So our objective is not to optimize the cost of funding. So the cost of having a client that will not engage on the other hand, with the bank and you'll lose the vision of lifetime value.

但最重要的是看到另一邊有一個客戶。這就是我們開展特許經營業務的地方。我們希望並且將繼續成為客戶強大的投資特許經營商。所以我們的目標不是要優化融資成本。因此，如果客戶不願意與銀行互動，那麼銀行的成本就會增加，您將失去終身價值的願景。

When we launched Cofrinhos, the piggy bank, where the client has the alternative of taking the money and do a savings account or doing a value reserve and then we pay 100% of the CDI. It shows that our vision is of client is not the optimization of the cost of funding, this is a part of the story.

當我們推出 Cofrinhos（小豬存錢筒）時，客戶可以選擇取出金錢並開設儲蓄帳戶或進行價值儲備，然後我們支付 100% 的 CDI。這表明我們的願景是客戶不是為了優化融資成本，這只是故事的一部分。

So I see this as an opportunity, an opportunity because naturally reducing in a relevant way, of course, you can have volatility and the cost of capturing. That part, we have LCR, close to 200, we had it higher. We had the payment of extraordinary dividends.

所以我認為這是一個機會，一個機會，因為以相關的方式自然地減少，當然，你可以有波動性和捕獲成本。那部分，我們的 LCR 接近 200，我們的 LCR 更高。我們已支付特別股息。

We didn't follow up on that because if it was for that, we had to reduce in a very relevant way, the cost of capturing deposits in the end. We will lose deposits by design, but we will lose the client as well. So in the end, what we want to do is service the clients in the best way possible with a franchise of investment that is very robust.

我們沒有對此採取後續行動，因為如果是為了這個目的，我們最終必須以非常相關的方式降低獲取存款的成本。我們將會有意失去存款，但也會失去客戶。所以最終，我們想要做的是透過非常強大的投資特許經營權以最好的方式為客戶提供服務。

So to answer that question, it depends on the opportunity of serving our clients better and showing that regardless of the cycle, Itaú Unibanco is a great place to invest. It's a great place so that the clients can service where they in the platform and opportunities and alternatives for investment.

因此，要回答這個問題，這取決於更好地服務我們的客戶的機會，並表明無論週期如何，Itaú Unibanco 都是一個值得投資的好地方。這是一個很棒的地方，客戶可以在平台上獲得服務，並找到投資機會和選擇。

We're not going to do changes in our structure of force capture. I'm not going to say that we're not going to fit in with it, but that we're never going to change the rates of -- well, it depends on the transfer price, the management of liabilities, as far as the business dynamic. But the important thing is to strengthen the franchise of investment and the relationship with our clients. That's our main strategy.

我們不會改變我們的武力俘獲結構。我不是說我們不會適應它，而是說我們永遠不會改變利率——這取決於轉移價格、負債管理以及業務動態。但重要的是加強投資特許經營權和與客戶的關係。這是我們的主要策略。

About the private payroll loan and this ordination, my views that the credit card, it was never in a way that it was conceived. I've discussed that before, a good platform for financing the consumption. It's great for transactions. It helps with the experience of the client day to day because of the loyalty program or the simplicity of the transaction. But when the client needs to finance that consumption today, 86% of our portfolio of BRL140 billion do not have interest rates that's the phenomenon of the [parcelado in judo].

關於私人薪資貸款和這項任命，我的觀點是，信用卡從來都不是像它所設想的那樣。我之前討論過，一個很好的消費融資平台。這對於交易來說非常有用。由於忠誠度計劃或交易的簡單性，它有助於提升客戶的日常體驗。但當客戶今天需要為消費融資時，我們 1,400 億巴西雷亞爾的投資組合中有 86% 沒有利率，這就是[柔道中的 parcelado]。

So at the end of day, what we have for finance portfolio, we've tried to the PIX in the credit card, the other products is a smaller part, even that portfolio has grown the finance portfolio grew in the quarter and it helped with the margin.

所以最終，對於我們的金融投資組合，我們嘗試了信用卡中的 PIX，其他產品只佔較小部分，即使該投資組合有所增長，金融投資組合在本季度也有所增長，這對利潤率有幫助。

The feeling is that when you give the private payroll loan for that client, you have a better product for financing, limited to the 35% of the salary, of course, but probably will be the best alternative. To offer to the client the best alternative and the cheapest one and complement their needs with other products, where we need to leave from the more competitive to the less competitor because the delinquency in credit card specifically in the rotation products are very high.

感覺是，當你為該客戶提供私人薪資貸款時，你會有更好的融資產品，當然，僅限於薪資的 35%，但可能是最好的選擇。為客戶提供最佳和最便宜的選擇，並透過其他產品來滿足他們的需求，我們需要從競爭更激烈的市場轉向競爭較少的市場，因為信用卡拖欠率，特別是輪換產品的拖欠率非常高。

So this is going to be a natural way whether if it's by the credit PIX or private payroll loan, et cetera, of the finance that was done in the credit card and the rates that are practiced they tend to converge for a healthier dynamic.

因此，這將是一個自然的方式，無論是透過信用 PIX 還是私人薪資貸款等，透過信用卡進行的融資和實施的利率都趨於趨同，形成更健康的動態。

But let's remember that the base of salary men in the public of credit cards, it has a size, but it's not so relevant when you look at the total problem. So when you look at the capacity of offering, it's not exclusively in the salary men, you can service other public as well.

但讓我們記住，公眾信用卡的工資基數雖然有一個規模，但是當你看總體問題時它並不是那麼相關。因此，當您考慮提供服務的能力時，它不僅限於工薪階層，您還可以為其他公眾提供服務。

So I think it's constructive certainly, the market will be accommodated but it's a step at a time, but we are going in the right direction. More adequate rates with adequate risk, less delinquency, and we can defend the net financial margin and taking a product decline to the right product of consumption that clearly is not a credit card where that usually happens.

所以我認為這當然是建設性的，市場將會適應，但這是一個一步一步的過程，但我們正朝著正確的方向前進。更合適的利率、足夠的風險、更少的拖欠，我們可以捍衛淨財務利潤，並將產品下降到正確的消費產品，這顯然不是通常發生的信用卡。

[Guillermo Velasco, JP Morgan].

[吉列爾莫·貝拉斯科，摩根大通]

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good morning, Lulia, Milton, Gabriel. Thank you for the presentation. So great quality of the results. I think that they asked a big debate of the case. I wanted to clarify two dots that are more specific on this quarter that we are in now in the results. First of all, as working capital you mentioned on your presentation, but we noticed a strong performance of that line in this quarter.

早安，Lulia、Milton、Gabriel。感謝您的演講。結果品質非常好。我認為他們對該案進行了激烈的辯論。我想就我們目前所處的本季度的結果更具體地澄清兩個點。首先，您在演示中提到了營運資金，但我們注意到本季該業務表現強勁。

It's longer duration, it's not a spot and then you have the vertices of the investment when you see the yield off that line, it was very representative. We had gradual increases and the implicit yield went from [8.7%] to 11.2%.

它的持續時間較長，不是一個點，當你看到該線的收益率時，你就有了投資的頂點，它非常具有代表性。我們逐步提高隱含收益率，從 [8.7%] 提高到 11.2%。

So since this is a line of working capital and others, I just wanted to understand if it's working capital or there is another others that are influencing? And if it's sustainable, more it's important that level of view that we've seen from this quarter ahead.

因此，由於這是一條營運資金和其他資金線，我只是想了解它是營運資金還是有其他影響？如果這種趨勢可持續，那麼我們在本季看到的觀點水平就更為重要。

And the second question, just to the taxes were higher in this quarter, we expect the taxes conversion for the guidance if you can explain, we like to the increase of the taxes in this quarter. Thank you again.

第二個問題，由於本季的稅收較高，我們預計稅收將轉換為指導，如果您可以解釋的話，我們很高興看到本季稅收的增加。再次感謝您。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you, Gulliermo. Thank you for the questions. Working capital of the bank and others, as you've seen, what are the others? Just to give you some more visibility. Well, investments that we have in companies that we do not necessarily consolidate and we do by [HAP] in the pattromony consolidation.

謝謝你，古列爾莫。謝謝您的提問。銀行的營運資金和其他的，你看到了，其他的是什麼？只是為了讓你更加清楚。嗯，我們對公司的投資不一定會進行合併，我們透過 [HAP] 進行資產合併。

Well, the investment is within the working capital. So if we have an activation -- purchasing of a payroll, and we have to do the activation of that payroll that's in the working capital. So there are some effects that are there that can have some seasonality’s. So the part of the effect is the result itself of the rate in the capital that comes in the quarter and a part are effects that are relative to the previous quarter.

嗯，投資是在營運資金範圍內。因此，如果我們要啟動——購買薪資單，我們就必須啟動營運資金中的薪資單。因此，有些影響可能會具有季節性。因此，部分影響是本季資本流入率本身的結果，部分影響是相對於上一季的影響。

So these are deltas of effects that are happening or of the variation of HAP or intangibles of payrolls than we had in the previous quarters that were higher or we didn't have negative effects in this quarter because it's a bit of a combination of both that lead you to bring this effect in the working capital.

因此，這些是正在發生的影響的增量，或者是 HAP 或工資無形資產的變化，與前幾個季度相比更高，或者我們在本季度沒有受到負面影響，因為兩者的結合導致您在營運資本中產生這種影響。

So I think that now, Gabriel, this -- well, our expectation is more normalized, of course, this volatility can happen by the effects that I mentioned, but these are adjustments that are done in between quarters that show a bit of a discontinuity and this is the level of working capital and the rhythm seems adequate, right?

所以我認為現在，加布里埃爾，我們的預期更加正常化了，當然，這種波動可能是由我提到的影響引起的，但這些是在季度之間進行的調整，顯示出一點不連續性，這是營運資本的水平，節奏似乎足夠，對吧？

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Yes. I think that the yield that you mentioned is the yield that makes sense. With other disclaimers at Milton mentioned on the volatility that we had quarter on quarter, whether if it's a basic effect things that happened in the previous quarter or by the yield of the portfolio of what we are investing, looking up ahead.

是的。我認為您提到的收益率是合理的收益率。米爾頓的其他免責聲明提到了我們季度間的波動，無論它是上一季發生的基本影響，還是我們所投資的投資組合的收益率，我們都在展望未來。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

And about the rate of taxes, very simple explanation. In fact, we have two effects that will explain this loquat. Well, first, because the bank is conglomerate with several vehicles, we have financial and nonfinancial vehicles. And we have three types of loquat in conglomerate. We have companies that pay 34, corporate loquat -- there are companies that pay 40 and there are companies that pay 45. Depending on where the result was generated, you changed the mix. In this quarter, we had more generation of results in companies with higher loquat so naturally you have the loquat is growing effectively.

關於稅率，解釋得非常簡單。其實我們有兩個功效可以解釋這個枇杷。首先，由於該銀行是一家擁有多種業務的集團企業，因此我們有金融和非金融業務。我們的枇杷有三種。我們有支付 34 的公司，有支付 40 的公司，還有支付 45 的公司。根據結果產生的位置，您可以改變混合。本季度，枇杷產量較高的公司取得了更多成果，因此自然而然地，枇杷產量正在有效成長。

The second aspect is more like you generate less is the benefit of the interest rate on the -- on our own capital. So the higher profitability of the bank, the JCP is lower because it's limited to [PL and GLP] you have a benefit that is defined for a higher net income.

第二個方面更像是你對我們自己的資本產生較少的利率收益。因此，銀行的獲利能力越高，JCP 就越低，因為它僅限於 [PL 和 GLP]，因此您獲得的收益是由更高的淨收入定義的。

So the benefit of the interest of our capital is divided at the higher your result is. So the result is higher diluted the interest of our capital JCP. And the second one is the mix of the businesses that we are the business and a higher loquat had bigger results. So we pulled up the higher loquat. The expectation is to try to converge to the guidance and maybe more close to the roof of the guidance and below, it would be different. So I think that's it.

因此，我們的資本利息收益是按照您的結果越高來分配的。因此，結果就是進一步稀釋了我們資本 JCP 的利息。第二個是我們的業務組合，枇杷越高，業績越好。於是我們把較高的枇杷拔了起來。預期是嘗試收斂到指導值，也許更接近指導值的上限，否則就會有所不同。所以我認為就是這樣。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

When we look at the bank I mean there is the FX portfolio that Milton mentioned, 120 companies that we have in the conglomerate different profitability, different income, different sizes. Depending on the seasonality of all this, you generate fluctuations in that tax rate, and that should converge with the guidance that we've seen in the beginning of the year.

當我們看銀行時，我的意思是米爾頓提到的外匯投資組合，我們集團中有 120 家公司，它們的獲利能力、收入和規模各不相同。根據所有這些的季節性，稅率會產生波動，這應該與我們在年初看到的指導一致。

That information is the guidance, any difference in the next quarters, we will do the adjustments. But it's good collateral in the end of the day, good collateral and diluting the effect of JCP interest of capital. Thank you.

這些資訊只是指導，如果接下來幾季出現任何差異，我們都會進行調整。但最終它是一種很好的抵押品，是一種很好的抵押品，可以稀釋 JCP 資本利息的影響。謝謝。

Gustavo Schroden, Citibank. Welcome.

花旗銀行的古斯塔沃‧施羅登 (Gustavo Schroden)。歡迎。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good morning, Milton, Gabriel, Renato. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on the strong results. (inaudible) watch the quality. Question is about the mass. We see the ROI per segment is that you see the retail [25, wholesale 2530], that order of magnitude. But in the previous quarters, you shared with us that the massified still had a challenge of profitability. The bank has been doing investments we've seen the efficiency level improving, of course, there is the cost.

早安，米爾頓、加百列、雷納托。感謝您提供的機會。恭喜您取得如此出色的成績。 （聽不清楚）注意品質。問題是關於品質的。我們看到每個細分市場的投資報酬率是零售[25，批發2530]，這個數量級。但在前幾季度，您與我們分享了大眾化仍然面臨獲利的挑戰。銀行一直在做投資，我們看到效率水準在提高，當然也有成本。

But I wanted to know how do you see the profitability of the massified. Is it improving to the point that you're getting to a stage that you can be higher in massified? Have you got to a level of profitability or there is still some space just so we can understand when the bank or what is the stage that the bank is diversified? And does the bank believe that we can get to a profitability rate level that is higher in this segment.

但我想知道您如何看待大眾化的獲利能力。它是否正在不斷進步，以致於達到可以實現更高品質化的階段？您是否已經達到獲利水準或仍有一些空間，以便我們了解銀行何時或銀行多元化處於哪個階段？銀行是否相信我們可以在這一領域達到更高的獲利水準？

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Great to see you. Congratulations Gustavo. Thank you for the initial words. Remember, the third quarter of '22, and I was discussing that we've reached [16.4%] of profitability in the retail, and we were not happy. This is a process cycle of credit that is tougher, but we had a relevant work for this portfolio.

很高興見到你。恭喜古斯塔沃。感謝您最初的話語。記得，在 2022 年第三季度，我曾討論過我們的零售業獲利能力已達到 [16.4%]，但我們並不滿意。這是一個比較艱難的信貸流程週期，但我們針對這個投資組合做了相關的工作。

And today, I'm happy to look that some quarters later, we are running at 25% of profitability in the retail, but whether it's a natural persons or company. So we need to break down this vision. The two businesses are running above cost of capital.

今天，我很高興地看到，幾個季度之後，我們的零售盈利率達到了 25%，無論是自然人還是公司。所以我們需要打破這個願景。這兩家企業的營運成本均超過了資本成本。

So we don't have the sensation and there is a compensation. Profitability in companies is even higher than the clients, natural persons, but we still with the mono liners, which is where we had a called credit that was tougher with the credit card and vehicles, we did a strategy for revision that is relevant in the way that we work and the appetite of risk and that process was very salutary for the portfolio. There was a derisking combined with a better management penetration and increase of engagement of the target clients that would make the -- bring more profitability for this threshold.

所以我們沒有這種感覺，而且存在補償。公司的獲利能力甚至高於客戶、自然人的獲利能力，但我們仍然與單一保險公司合作，在這種情況下，我們的信用記錄對信用卡和車輛的要求更為嚴格，我們制定了與我們的工作方式和風險偏好相關的修訂策略，這個過程對投資組合非常有益。降低風險、提高管理滲透率以及增加目標客戶參與度，將為此門檻帶來更多的獲利能力。

So when we look back to the profitability's that we had many years ago, several circumstances. First, the regulatory caps did not exist at that time, it didn't have the cap of the credit card, they didn't have the cap of the of many things. So the relator changes generated impact.

因此，當我們回顧多年前的獲利能力時，有幾種情況。首先，當時不存在監管上限，沒有信用卡上限，沒有很多東西的上限。因此關聯詞的變化產生了影響。

And this is a market that is more penetrated in credit than it was at that time. So you have a cost of credit that is more preponderant and the profitability of credit that pulls the profitability of everything lower. But the massified, I think that we are still very far away from what we wanted to have in terms of profitability. So we have a great opportunity.

現在的市場信貸滲透率比當時更高。因此，信貸成本會更高，而信貸獲利能力則會拉低所有事物的獲利能力。但就大眾化而言，我認為我們距離獲利目標還很遠。因此，我們有一個絕佳的機會。

When I see the segments of high medium income only class personality running with profitability's that are very solid and very good. And with critical math, so you have to have volume for the generation of revenue basis of clients. So the segments have been performing very well and they're growing.

當我看到只有中高收入階層的個性能夠獲利且非常穩健。透過關鍵數學，您必須擁有為客戶創造收入的基礎數量。因此，這些細分市場表現良好，並且還在持續成長中。

When they look at the low income, the opportunity is enormous because we have a model of service, so we can have a more adequate profitability for our appetite. Of course, the basis, there is a serious element. The clients that are migrated from one segment to the other.

當他們看到低收入時，機會是巨大的，因為我們有一個服務模式，所以我們可以獲得更充足的盈利能力來滿足我們的胃口。當然，這個基礎上，還有嚴肅的成分。從一個段遷移到另一個段的客戶端。

So the attention to the client penetration and the increase of engagement but there is also a model where that has to be optimized and should be optimized all throughout time. Answering your question, if -- what we are not optimizing in the attention of massified, we have a homework all the digital evolution of the bank and the evolution of the app and the migration will service that, my expectation is short term.

因此，要專注於客戶滲透率和參與度的提高，但也有一個模型需要最佳化，並且應該始終進行最佳化。回答你的問題，如果——我們沒有在大眾化的關注點上進行優化，我們有一個家庭作業，銀行的所有數位化演變和應用程式的演變以及遷移都將為此服務，我的期望是短期的。

So, in the next quarter, I will ask you a question, Well, I don't think that this is an evolution happens in a quarter, but it's an evolution three to four years that is relevant. So the expectation is that we have an opportunity that is enormous and we are ready to execute this path in the correct way, taking care of our clients, improving the experience in servicing the clients in their segments with the model attention correct at the right cost, so we can absorb and accept more losses in the portfolio. So there's a change in the appetite, a lot of work of improving the experience and evolution of the platform.

因此，在下個季度，我會問你一個問題，我不認為這是一個季度內發生的演變，而是一個相關的三到四年的演變。因此，我們期望我們有一個巨大的機會，我們準備以正確的方式執行這條路徑，照顧我們的客戶，以正確的模型關注和正確的成本改善為客戶提供服務的經驗，以便我們能夠吸收和接受投資組合中的更多損失。因此，需求發生了變化，需要做大量工作來改善平台的體驗和發展。

Morgan Stanley, Jorge Kuri. Jorge, Good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us today.

摩根士丹利，豪爾赫·庫裡。豪爾赫，很高興見到你。非常感謝您今天加入我們。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you. Thanks, everyone, Renato, Gabriel. Congrats on the results. Let me go back to rates. And this is a bit of a longer time frame question beyond your guidance for the year. Evidently, rates are at a 10-year high roughly.

謝謝。謝謝大家，雷納托，加布里埃爾。恭喜取得成果。讓我回到利率問題。這是一個較長時間範圍的問題，超出了您對今年的指導。顯然，利率大約處於十年來的最高水準。

And so I wanted to ask you, what do you think the windfall that you had benefited from rate in your record ROE today is? And look, if we go back to when rates were below 10%, the ROE of the bank was around 18%, 19%. Today, it's at 22%, 23% and there are so many moving parts. So I'm not -- in no way suggesting that there's a regression analysis for rates and ROE.

所以我想問您，您認為今天創紀錄的 ROE 為您帶來了多少意外之財？如果我們回顧利率低於 10% 的時候，銀行的 ROE 大約是 18%、19%。如今，這一比例已達到 22%、23%，並且存在許多變動因素。所以我絕不是說對利率和 ROE 進行迴歸分析。

But I guess that's the question I'm asking you, which is how do we quantify how much of the very high level of profitability that you have today is due to this very excessive level of rates. And then as we hopefully normalize rates in Brazil to hopefully stop 10 or around 10 within the next two to three years.

但我想這就是我要問您的問題，即我們如何量化您今天所擁有的非常高的盈利水平有多少是由於這種過高的利率造成的。然後，我們希望在未來兩到三年內將巴西的利率正常化，並希望將其保持在 10 或 10 左右。

What does that do to your ROE? And what are the things that you can still do over the next two to three years to make sure that, that level of ROE that we're seeing today doesn't dilute over time? Or maybe it will, and it's fine as well. So yes, that's what I'm trying to get to.

這對你的 ROE 有何影響？那麼，在接下來的兩到三年裡，您還可以做些什麼來確保我們今天看到的 ROE 水平不會隨著時間的推移而降低？或許會，那也很好。是的，這就是我想要達到的目的。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Okay. Thank you, Jorge. Thank you for your question, your words. Low time no see, you in our call. So thank you for joining us today. And I would say that we have a slide then for you, Jorge. And sometimes we bring this slide in our presentations here, where we try to show how sensitive is the margin of the bank and the profitability due to interest rate in Brazil.

好的。謝謝你，豪爾赫。感謝您的提問與發言。低潮時不見，你在我們的電話裡。感謝您今天加入我們。我想說的是，我們為你準備了一張幻燈片，豪爾赫。有時我們會在簡報中引入這張投影片，試圖展示銀行利潤和獲利能力對巴西利率的敏感度。

I think it's not a simple question because, as you said, there are many moving parts when you look to that impact. What I can tell you is that in the short term, the benefits are working capital and also deposits. Those are the two more relevant impact that we have.

我認為這不是一個簡單的問題，因為正如你所說，當你看到這種影響時，會發現有很多活動部件。我可以告訴你的是，短期內的好處是營運資金和存款。這是我們產生的兩個更相關的影響。

But at the end of the day, we hedge those effects. So it doesn't come in the same speed as we see the hike or the reduction on the interest rate. So it's less sensitive due to the level of hedge we do to maintain more stability in our figures, this is one point.

但最終，我們會規避這些影響。因此，它的速度與我們看到升息或降息的速度不一樣。因此，由於我們採取了一定的對沖措施來保持數據的穩定性，因此它的敏感度較低，這是一點。

The second one, I think when the interest rate starts to go down, we see more activity, more activities, more portfolio growth, more portfolio growth is more business with our clients, more engagement, more penetration of product services, derivatives, cash management, effects, all the products that we serve our clients.

第二，我認為當利率開始下降時，我們會看到更多的活動、更多的活動、更多的投資組合成長，更多的投資組合成長意味著與客戶的業務更多、參與度更高、產品服務、衍生性商品、現金管理、效果的滲透性更高，以及我們為客戶提供的所有產品。

And so we have some compensations in the portfolio in different lines due to different reasons. We have impact in the financial margin with the market, we have impacting the financial margin with the client. We have more portfolio growth, less delinquents, especially on the individual side. So it's difficult to give you one number.

因此，由於不同的原因，我們在不同的投資組合中有一些補償。我們對市場的財務利潤有影響，我們對客戶的財務利潤有影響。我們的投資組合成長更快，拖欠者更少，尤其是個人拖欠者。所以很難給你一個數字。

So the good thing to see is in the long term, when we see all the volatility of the interest rate, and we see our NIM, you will see it much more stable than your expectation. And this is due to the broad portfolio that we have, very well balanced in all lines of businesses. This brings us a good portfolio sensitivity and gives us a lot of natural heads inside the portfolio of the bank. So those are the short-term impacts and the positives, you are right.

因此，從長期來看，好消息是，當我們看到利率的波動性，並看到我們的淨利差時，你會發現它比你預期的要穩定得多。這是因為我們擁有廣泛的產品組合，並且所有業務線都非常均衡。這給我們帶來了良好的投資組合敏感性，並讓我們在銀行投資組合內部擁有許多自然的頭腦。所以這些是短期影響和正面影響，你說得對。

But on the other hand, we have costs under control, and we have to deepen the agenda on that. If we believe there is no revenues coming for any reason, we have to go deeper in costs, so on and so forth. So that's why we look to the efficiency ratio all the time.

但另一方面，我們已經控制了成本，我們必須深化這方面的議程。如果我們認為因為某些原因沒有收入，我們就必須進一步降低成本，等等。這就是我們始終關注效率比率的原因。

We're looking to revenues, but we are looking over cost as well. So this is a general answer I don't have a key point to tell, this is what happens because the portfolio is very broad. But this dynamic is very positive, and the balance sheet of the bank is very less sensitive to the interest rate than people usually expect.

我們關注收入，但我們也在關注成本。所以這是一個一般性的答案，我沒有關鍵點要說，這是因為投資組合非常廣泛而發生的。但這種動態非常積極，銀行的資產負債表對利率的敏感度遠低於人們通常預期。

In generally speaking, I prefer to work in an environment where the interest rates are lower than the interest rates that we are seeing today. And why is that? Because you might see a hike that could be beneficial in the short term for the banks. But if it stays for long, the delinquency will go up very strongly, and you lose the capability to grow the portfolio.

一般來說，我更喜歡在利率低於我們今天所見利率的環境中工作。這是為什麼呢？因為你可能會看到升息在短期內對銀行有利。但如果這種情況持續很長時間，拖欠率就會大幅上升，而你將失去增加投資組合的能力。

And of course, the activity, DCM, investment banking, everything is impacted. So our view is that for the long term, we prefer to work with the structure, we interest much lower single digit, if possible, is much better for us in the long term than two digit interest rate that we are seeing today. Any comment here, Gabriel, additional comments?

當然，活動、DCM、投資銀行等一切都會受到影響。因此，我們的觀點是，從長期來看，我們更傾向於採用這種結構，如果可能的話，我們的利息要低得多的個位數，從長遠來看，這比我們今天看到的兩位數利率要好得多。加布里埃爾，對此您還有什麼評論嗎，還有其他評論嗎？

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

No, I think as Milton told you, Jorge, there is a portfolio effect on the bank, right? So with the different cycles of interest rates, when you take a look at the short term, you're going to have more of the liability income from us, from capital and everything.

不，我認為正如米爾頓告訴你的那樣，豪爾赫，這對銀行有投資組合效應，對嗎？因此，隨著利率週期的變化，從短期來看，您將從我們這裡獲得更多的負債收入，包括資本收入和其它收入。

But the flip side to that is asset growth, right? And we see that in other countries that we operate, right? So the experience in Chile, for example, with much lower interest rates, you see the penetration of credit to the GDP, much higher than we have in Brazil.

但另一方面是資產成長，對嗎？我們在開展業務的其他國家也看到了這種情況，對嗎？以智利為例，雖然利率低得多，但你會看到信貸對 GDP 的滲透率遠高於巴西。

So yeah, of course, some of the lines of business that we have on lower interest rates will be a little bit lower than we have nowadays. But on the flip side, if you take a look at the fees, transactions, investments and asset growth will be much different. So I think that the portfolio effect at the end of the day is positive for us.

所以，是的，當然，我們在較低利率下開展的一些業務線會比現在低一點。但另一方面，如果你看看費用、交易、投資和資產成長就會有很大不同。所以我認為最終的投資組合效應對我們來說是正面的。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

And you have also the cost of the hedge of the capital index as well Jorge sorry -- has an impact as well. And this is why we believe that the financial margin with the market for the next quarter might have more impact because as high is in the interest rate and it's bigger is the difference between the interest rate that we have here compared to the countries where we operate, higher the cost to have the capital index.

而且你還需要考慮資本指數對沖的成本，很抱歉，這也會產生影響。這就是為什麼我們認為下一季的市場財務利潤可能會產生更大的影響，因為利率越高，我們這裡的利率與經營所在國家的利率差異就越大，資本指數的成本就越高。

So this is one of the reasons why we are seeing, we expect to have a guidance more aligned to our expectation than to have four consecutive quarters in line with this quarter that we had. This is the reason why because the cost of hedge, we paid BRL500 million this quarter. We expect this to grow in the coming quarters.

因此，這就是我們看到的原因之一，我們預計指導將更符合我們的預期，而不是連續四個季度與本季度一致。這就是為什麼我們本季因為對沖成本而支付了 5 億巴西雷亞爾的原因。我們預計未來幾季這一數字還會成長。

And also, you will see some effect on the banking book, even though we do a very dynamic hedge on the book. We might see some impact with the expected results coming from the banking book to be lower in the coming quarters. So this is also the flip side of working with a high interest rate in Brazil.

而且，儘管我們對銀行帳簿進行了非常動態的對沖，但您仍會看到對銀行帳簿的一些影響。我們可能會看到未來幾季銀行帳簿預期結果下降的影響。這也是巴西高利率的另一面。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

I was going to make is that it they're Brazil-specific topics as well. So we have products that have caps, right? So payroll owns and contact guarantee for overdrafts. And then every time that the cost of funding goes up because costly goes up, your spread is compressed. So whenever (inaudible) goes down, you might see also as well.

我打算說的是，它們也是巴西特定的主題。所以我們的商品都是有蓋子的，對嗎？因此薪資單擁有並聯絡透支的擔保。然後，每當融資成本因成本上升而上升時，您的利差就會被壓縮。因此，每當 (聽不清楚) 發生故障時，您可能也會看到。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

I agree 100%. We said on the retail operations, as I was saying, you have caps on a credit card, you have kept on Consignado, the payroll loans you have caps on overdraft. So it puts pressure as well on the profitability of the retail whenever the rate is high. So as I said, many effects, we have to take all of them in consideration but that's why I always say and we try to show, as I said Jorge, we are less sensitive to interest rate than it seems like.

我完全同意。正如我所說，關於零售業務，信用卡有上限，Consignado 也有上限，薪資貸款透支也有上限。因此，每當利率較高時，它也會對零售業的獲利能力造成壓力。所以正如我所說的，有很多影響，我們必須考慮所有的影響，但這就是我總是說的原因，我們試圖表明，正如我所說的豪爾赫，我們對利率的敏感度不像看起來那麼高。

So if we bring it all together.

所以如果我們把它們整合在一起。

And we are warm up in English. So let's keep that language because now we have Carlos Gomes with us from HSBC. Carlos, great to see you. Thanks so much for joining.

我們用英語熱身。因此，讓我們保留這種語言，因為現在我們有來自匯豐銀行的 Carlos Gomes。卡洛斯，很高興見到你。非常感謝您的加入。

Thank you for taking my question. Congratulations like everybody else for the results. And thank you for the reference to taxes as good colors, we will use that. That's very good. My questions first, you have made a big effort for showing us the new classification of loans by stages and new provisioning. I think that gives a new insight about how the profitability’s for each type of lending.

感謝您回答我的問題。像其他人一樣，祝賀這一結果。感謝您提到稅收是好的顏色，我們會使用它。那非常好。首先我的問題是，您付出了很大的努力來向我們展示新的按階段分類貸款和新的撥備。我認為這讓我們對每種貸款的獲利能力有了新的認識。

Do you think that we will see a change in the market going forward when data plans, when everybody start to look at things this way? Do you expect perhaps some products to become more -- to become bigger, some products to become smaller in the future? And completely unrelated to that, we haven't heard about any possible changes in taxation on IOC or of your subsidiaries abroad. Do you think anything like that is in the works for the coming months? Thank you.

當數據計劃出現，當每個人都開始以這種方式看待事物時，您認為我們會看到市場發生變化嗎？您是否預期未來某些產品會變得更大，而某些產品會變得更小？與此完全無關的是，我們還沒有聽說國際奧委會或貴公司海外子公司的稅收有任何可能的變化。您認為未來幾個月會發生類似的事情嗎？謝謝。

No. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you for coming. Thank you for the initial words. It's a good collateral whenever you have the same corporate tax, right? When it goes up for new decisions or regulatory decisions. This is not necessarily the good collateral because at the end of the day, we know that if you have a high interest rate, in tax rates, what happens is that the cost of credit in Brazil increases.

不。謝謝你，卡洛斯。謝謝您的到來。感謝您最初的話語。只要您有相同的公司稅，它就是一個很好的抵押品，對嗎？當需要做出新的決定或監管決定時。這不一定是好的抵押品，因為歸根究底，我們知道，如果利率和稅率很高，那麼巴西的信貸成本就會增加。

And of course, the payers the ones that are depending on lending and needs to finance their needs have to pay more whenever it happens. So it's always important to remember this is how we see whenever we have a hike on the corporate tax rate.

當然，無論何時，依賴貸款並需要滿足自身需求的付款人都必須支付更多費用。因此，我們務必記住，每當企業稅率上調時，我們都會遇到這種情況。

So my view is that these stages the way we are showing now reflects the way we manage the bank. So we don't expect any change because now we have the local or the BR GAAP IFRS local. So we don't expect to change the way we operate inside the bank because of that. This will give us, in our view, we'll be more transparent, more comparable will be easier to show, reflect better what we do inside the organization.

所以我的觀點是，我們現在展示的這些階段反映了我們管理銀行的方式。因此我們不希望發生任何變化，因為現在我們有本地或 BR GAAP IFRS 本地。因此，我們並不認為會因此改變銀行內部的運作方式。我們認為，這將使我們更加透明、更具可比性，更容易展示，更好地反映我們在組織內部所做的事情。

So I don't expect any change in the way we operate the products and the businesses especially because, as I said in the very beginning, we haven't changed any method, any criteria compared to the BR GAAP when linked to the write-offs, for instance. So as we keep exactly the same way, it shouldn't change the way we manage the organization.

因此，我預計我們經營產品和業務的方式不會發生任何變化，特別是因為，正如我在一開始所說的那樣，與 BR GAAP 相比，我們沒有改變任何方法，也沒有改變任何與註銷相關的標準。因此，只要我們保持完全相同的方式，就不應該改變我們管理組織的方式。

Your second question on IOC. And no, we don't see any discussions coming from there. I know there is a discussion now in the Congress, there is a proposal coming from the government. They have to be analyzed by the Congress that is increase the corporate rate withholding tax with for dividends, they take out some exempted products above specific income that the people have. So that's what we could see in terms of change.

第二個問題是關於國際奧委會的。不，我們沒有看到那裡有任何討論。我知道國會目前正在討論這個問題，政府也提出了提案。國會必須對它們進行分析，即提高公司股息的預扣稅率，並取消人們特定收入以外的一些免稅產品。這就是我們所看到的改變。

But this is a discussion that it's still very open. Let's see how the Congress will react to that. We don't have any discussion related to increasing tax. We don't have any discussion regards to the IOC and I think this is what we have now. Of course, things can change.

但這是一個仍處於開放狀態的討論。讓我們看看國會對此作何反應。我們沒有任何有關增加稅收的討論。我們沒有就國際奧委會進行任何討論，我想這就是我們現在所擁有的。當然，事情可能會改變。

And if you change, we're going to give you more color on that, but still waiting to see how the Congress will do with this tax exemption for people that has up to BRL5,000 in monthly income. So let's see what happens. Let's keep very -- follow very close.

如果您改變主意，我們會對此提供更多細節，但仍在等著看國會將如何處理針對月收入不超過 5,000 巴西雷亞爾的人群的免稅政策。那麼讓我們看看會發生什麼。讓我們密切關注。

If I can follow up.

如果我可以跟進的話。

Henrique Navarro, Santander. Great to see you.

桑坦德銀行的恩里克·納瓦羅。很高興見到你。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

So Milton and everyone, congratulations on that result. I think that the performance is solid. And my question is, well, talking to some of the participants in the market, not that there is a concern, but there is care with delinquency in the second quarter. The increase into [leak], you can have the lagging carefulness when we the second quarter.

所以，米爾頓和大家對這個結果表示祝賀。我認為表現很紮實。我的問題是，嗯，與一些市場參與者交談後發現，並不是存在擔憂，而是對第二季度的拖欠情況感到擔憂。增加到[洩漏]，當我們第二季時，你可以有滯後的謹慎。

Since we have several segments, we need to hear from the horse's mouth. Is there something that we should really monitor for the second quarter for delinquency? How do you see this evolution? And anything that you can share would be great.

由於我們有幾個片段，我們需要聽取權威人士的意見。我們是否真的應該監控第二季的拖欠情況？您如何看待這項演變？如果您能分享任何內容那就太好了。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you for the initial comments you know that I don't look at the price of the share during the call. So you updated me. I only see it after the call is done because we're looking at the long term and we are less sensitive to the spot price, but it's always a great feedback. So thank you for the initial words about delinquency.

感謝您最初的評論，您知道我在通話期間不會查看股票價格。所以你向我更新了情況。我只在通話結束後才看到它，因為我們著眼於長期，對現貨價格不太敏感，但它總是一個很好的反饋。非常感謝您對犯罪行為的最初評論。

So let's separate the discussion. For our portfolio, we have a stability in the delays or it's a big concern, and I was discussing small companies there should be normalization throughout the second quarter. So I think that this is the best expectation. I don't see something a lot different.

因此我們分開討論。對於我們的投資組合，我們在延遲方面保持穩定，或者這是一個大問題，我正在討論小公司應該在整個第二季度實現正常化。所以我認為這是最好的期望。我沒看到有什麼太大的不同。

But I look at some market indicators, credit cards, vehicles, National financial system. We've seen movements that are bigger in the portfolio in the market than what we've seen in hours. So an example, credit card. We have been for seven, eight quarters with relevant reductions.

但我會關註一些市場指標、信用卡、車輛、國家金融體系。我們發現市場投資組合的變動比幾個小時前更大。舉個例子，信用卡。我們已經連續七、八個季度實施了相關削減。

And we have 25% -- we're almost 30% depending on the vision with (inaudible) that we have in the portfolio. So in the end ex Itaú, we've seen a performance in some products that is much worse than what we've seen in our own portfolio, this is for vehicles as well.

我們有 25% — — 幾乎 30% 取決於我們在投資組合中的願景（聽不清楚）。因此，最終，除了義大利外，我們發現某些產品的表現比我們自己的產品組合要差得多，對於汽車也是如此。

So it's important to see that our vision is constructive regardless of a challenging stereo. So to believe that the interest rates are going to be dropping there is not going to be an impact in delinquency, it's not reasonable.

因此，無論立體音響多麼具有挑戰性，重要的是要看到我們的願景是建設性的。因此，認為利率下降不會對拖欠貸款產生影響是不合理的。

But the portfolio of the bank is very resilient. So that's why we don't see a lot of changes in delinquency, everything being constant. So there is a lot of dynamic of portfolio so this is a portfolio that is very challenging.

但該銀行的投資組合非常有彈性。這就是為什麼我們沒有看到犯罪率發生很大變化，一切都保持不變。因此，投資組合具有很大的動態性，所以這是一個非常具有挑戰性的投資組合。

So the indicators of the market are sovereign, it's not what I think. So it's important to look at these delays, the short-term delays, the breakdown per segment, the CFN indicators, you're going to have a challenging scenario for the semester. I don't think it's a scenario that we observed, it's a scenario that we've looked for many years.

因此，市場的指標是至高無上的，這不是我所想的那樣。因此，查看這些延誤、短期延誤、每個部分的故障、CFN 指標非常重要，你將在本學期面臨一個充滿挑戰的情況。我認為這不是我們觀察到的情景，而是我們多年來一直在尋找的情景。

So we have to follow that closer and the portfolios in several banks, companies in system they will perform according to their appetite and the risk profile that they have in their portfolio. We have a base that is very solid of clients, we give the derisking that is very relevant in the business of companies. We have a solid portfolio with the credit performance that is good.

因此，我們必須密切注意這一點，系統中幾家銀行和公司的投資組合將根據他們的偏好和投資組合中的風險狀況進行表現。我們擁有非常穩固的客戶基礎，我們提供與公司業務非常相關的風險降低服務。我們擁有穩健的投資組合，信用表現良好。

And in big companies, a portfolio that is distributed less concentrated in sectors with adequate volatility so it's very well established. To tell you again, we don't foresee. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen wholesale events, we are subjected to events the whole time.

在大公司中，投資組合在波動性足夠的行業中的分佈不太集中，因此非常成熟。再告訴你，我們無法預見。我並不是說這種大規模事件不會發生，我們總是會受到這些事件的影響。

So we work with the expected loss in other segments. We don't do the cross subsidy of the segment. We are always looking at the right level of provisioning. So our balance is -- the portfolio is very well protected. So we have to follow this up.

因此，我們會考慮其他部分的預期損失。我們不對該部分進行交叉補貼。我們始終在尋找正確的供應水準。因此我們的平衡是－投資組合得到了很好的保護。所以我們必須跟進此事。

The last question, last but not least, [Eduard Nishio from Daniel]. Welcome.

最後一個問題，也是最重要的，[丹尼爾的 Eduard Nishio]歡迎。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Good afternoon, correct congratulations on the results, Milton, Gabriel and Renato. Quick question about the hedge of your capital index, which you've been group managers of capital of the cycle, the hedge has been a competitive advantage in this interest cycle.

下午好，恭喜 Milton、Gabriel 和 Renato 取得的成績。關於資本指數對沖的快速問題，您一直是週期資本的集團經理，而對沖在本輪利率週期中一直是一種競爭優勢。

And my question is what the other banks -- we're not going to be able to replicate if you have a competitive advantage in this segment with the hedge, is there a difficulty to do this or not? And your vision the hedge of the capital index versus the NII, what is the advantage and disadvantage because there's a cost. And that cost, we see it in the NII market and if you can tell us about that. Thank you

我的問題是，其他銀行——如果你們在這一領域透過對沖擁有競爭優勢，我們將無法複製，那麼這樣做是否有困難？您認為資本指數與 NII 的對沖有何優勢和劣勢，因為這是有成本的。我們在 NII 市場中看到了這個成本，您能否向我們介紹一下？謝謝

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you for the initial words. Well, first of all, there are a few answers a few idiosyncrasies for Itaú Unibanco. First, the relevance of the operations outside of Brazil. When we compare it to other players, we are the bank the other Brazilian players that have a bigger exposure of activities outside of Brazil. Now we had a portfolio of Chile and Colombia, it's very relevant in our assets.

感謝您最初的話語。嗯，首先，對於 Itaú Unibanco 的一些特性，有一些答案。首先，巴西境外業務的相關性。與其他銀行相比，我們的銀行在巴西境外的活動曝光率更高。現在我們有智利和哥倫比亞的投資組合，這與我們的資產非常相關。

So we have a portfolio in foreign, well, dollar, Chilean peso, but we have the banks in Uruguay and Paraguay. And we -- you have to take care of the portfolio that is sensitive to euro, dollars and these are Brazilian clients that are taking resources and other currencies. In the past, we were very sensitive to the exchange because of the overhead.

因此，我們在外國擁有投資組合，例如美元、智利比索，但我們在烏拉圭和巴拉圭有銀行。而且我們必須專注於對歐元、美元敏感的投資組合，這些是巴西客戶，他們正在獲取資源和其他貨幣。過去，我們對匯率非常敏感，因為匯率有開銷。

Remember that we had a positive result with the strategy, but depending on the level of the -- you would have to manage the liabilities of the strategies of how you did the hedge, but it generated dangerous tax effect. So when we don't have the overhead, our sensitivity to the stock exchange to the exchange rate, it drops in the capital because whether if it's [CTPF or CTT, it consumed the capital Linux] in a different way. Afterwards, the big effect that we had is the variation of the portfolio.

請記住，我們的策略取得了積極的成果，但這取決於——你必須管理對沖策略的負債，但它會產生危險的稅收效應。因此，當我們沒有管理費用時，我們對股票交易所匯率的敏感度就會下降，因為無論是 [CTPF 還是 CTT，它都會以不同的方式消耗資本 Linux]。之後，我們產生的巨大影響就是投資組合的改變。

The hedge is dynamic, we're always looking at the cost of opportunity. So we have clearly a policy that has been approved, giving visibility to the regulator on how we do this, but we are always looking to try and optimize this hedge.

對沖是動態的，我們總是關注機會成本。因此，我們顯然有一項已批准的政策，讓監管機構了解我們如何做到這一點，但我們一直在嘗試優化這種對沖。

So it's dynamic up on a certain point because these are long-term strategies we try to bring a stability of the capital index in the end because that gives you surety to grow, to pay dividends, it gives you surety to advance.

因此，它在某個點上是動態的，因為這些都是長期策略，我們最終試圖實現資本指數的穩定，因為這為你提供了成長、支付股息的保證，也為你提供了前進的保證。

We now have capital index that is so important for our volatile activity, you have to be conservative by definition. So a bit of the risk appetite that we had way back where is higher than what we have today, it was because the buffer was higher to absorb the movement in exchange rate. When our capital index is less sensitive to the exchange rate, we have lower buffers and more leveraged.

我們現在擁有的資本指數對於我們的波動活動非常重要，從定義上講你必須保守。因此，我們先前的風險偏好比現在高一些，這是因為緩衝較高，可以吸收匯率的變動。當我們的資本指數對匯率的敏感度較低時，我們的緩衝就較低，槓桿率較高。

And with a dividend policy distributing more dividends because we define a lower appetite for risk. So we see this cost. It's lower than what we -- what we talked about the quarter with BRL300 million. So the cost of opportunities some what we've left the capital looser with a currency with the growth of these portfolios in Brazil, so it's a natural hedge. The counterpart of that is that you do not bring this capital and you apply it to the coupon or the interest rates in the countries that you want.

由於我們定義了較低的風險偏好，因此股利政策會分配更多的股利。所以我們看到了這個成本。這低於我們本季談論的 3 億巴西雷亞爾。因此，隨著巴西投資組合的成長，我們讓資本以貨幣形式變得更加寬鬆，因此這是一種自然的對沖。與此相對的是，你不帶入這筆資本，而是將其應用於你想要的國家的票面利率或利率。

So it's -- you can replicate this, we were less sensitive than we are still more sensitive to the exchange rate because of the participation that we have in operations in Brazil, but we are less sensitive now. And we're always looking at the cost benefit what is the level of volatility that we are ready to accept vis-a-vis the cost of carrying over these hedges.

所以這是——你可以複製這一點，由於我們參與了巴西的業務，我們對匯率的敏感度比現在要低，但現在我們的敏感度已經降低了。我們始終關注成本效益，即相對於這些對沖的持有成本，我們願意接受的波動程度是多少。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you, Milton. Thank you, Nishio. That was the last question. With that, we finish our Q&A session. And just to remind you that the questions we had a lot of questions via WhatsApp by investors, the IR team will answer. Thank you, Gabriel. Thank you, Milton. I'm going to give you the floor so you can close the call.

謝謝你，彌爾頓。謝謝你，西尾。這是最後一個問題。我們的問答環節就此結束。需要提醒您的是，投資人透過 WhatsApp 向我們提出了很多問題，IR 團隊會回答。謝謝你，加布里埃爾。謝謝你，彌爾頓。我現在給你發言權，以便你結束通話。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

Thank you, Renato. Thank you, Gabriel. We will be together with all the publications, all the calls up ahead. So thank you to -- by the support, the feedbacks and the recognition and the positive and constructive feedback that we received we're very satisfied with the evolution of what we managed to deliver in values, and these are values for the clients, collaborators, the investors and value to the society in the end of the day.

謝謝你，雷納托。謝謝你，加布里埃爾。我們將與所有出版物、所有呼籲一起前進。所以感謝你們——透過你們的支持、回饋、認可和積極、建設性的回饋，我們對我們所實現的價值的演變感到非常滿意，這些價值最終是為客戶、合作者、投資者和社會創造的。

Thank you for taking part. Active part -- the questions are always good so we can understand what you're looking at, what are your concerns to see if there is a blind spot or some additional hallmark on our culture, we don't know everything and we're very excited.

感謝您的參與。主動部分——這些問題總是很好的，這樣我們就能了解你在看什麼，你擔心什麼，看看我們的文化中是否存在盲點或一些額外的標誌，我們並非無所不知，但我們非常興奮。

I think that we're very excited structurally with the evolution of the bank and all the transformation that we've experienced with the amount of solutions that we've gotten with more strength and excited with the perspective, the macro challenges for everyone, the micro, it depends on how you do your homework and delivering more value for our stakeholders.

我認為，從結構上講，我們對銀行的發展和所經歷的所有轉型感到非常興奮，我們獲得了大量解決方案，實力更強，對前景、每個人面臨的宏觀挑戰、微觀挑戰都感到興奮，這取決於你如何做好功課，並為我們的利益相關者提供更多價值。

So we are very humble. Everybody with two feet on the ground, working hard, knowing that the past performance is not going to guarantee of future performance. So we need to continue to be consistent because this is an infinite work, infinite game. I hope to be here in the next quarter. See you next time.

所以我們非常謙虛。每個腳踏實地、努力工作的人都知道，過去的表現並不能保證未來的表現。所以我們需要繼續保持一致，因為這是一項無限的工作，無限的遊戲。我希望下個季度能來這裡。下次再見。

And for those of us that are in the conference in New York, it will be the best conference of all the series over 130 CEOs confirmed, incredible lineup. It will be a great opportunity for you, investors that are here to take part and have high-quality discussions. We will see you in New York. See you next time.

對於我們這些參加紐約會議的人來說，這將是整個系列會議中最好的一次，有超過 130 位執行長確認參會，陣容非常強大。對於各位投資者來說，這將是一個參與並進行高品質討論的絕佳機會。我們將在紐約見到您。下次再見。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的翻譯人員說的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。