ING Groep N.V. (ING) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. This is Laura welcoming you to ING's 1Q 2026 conference call. Before handing this conference call over to Steven J. van Rijswijk, Chief Executive Officer of ING Group, let me first say that today's comments may include forward-looking statements such as statements regarding future developments in our business, expectations for our future financial performance and any statement not involving a historical fact.

各位早安。我是 Laura，歡迎各位參加 ING 2026 年第一季（1Q 2026）電話會議。在把本次電話會議交給 ING 集團執行長 Steven J. van Rijswijk 之前，我先說明，今天的發言可能包含前瞻性陳述，例如關於我們業務未來發展、對未來財務表現的預期，以及任何不涉及歷史事實的陳述。

Actual results may differ materially from those projected in any forward-looking statements. A discussion of factors that may cause actual results to differ from those in any forward-looking statement is contained in our public filings, including our most recent annual report on Form 20-F filed with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission and our earnings press release as posted on our website today. Furthermore, nothing in today's comments constitutes an offer to sell or a solicitation of Anova Dubai any securities.

實際結果可能與任何前瞻性陳述中所預測者存在重大差異。可能導致實際結果與任何前瞻性陳述不同的因素之討論，載於我們的公開申報文件中，包括我們最近向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的 Form 20-F 年報，以及我們今日已發布於網站上的盈餘新聞稿。此外，今天的發言內容均不構成出售或招攬購買 Anova Dubai 任何證券之要約。

Good morning, Steven, over to you.

Steven，早安，接下來交給你。

Thank you very much, Laura, and good morning, and welcome to our results call for the first quarter of 2026. I hope that you're all doing well, and thank you for joining us today. Sitting next to me is our new CFO, Ida Lerner. Ida joined us on the first of April, and we're very happy to have her on board. Welcome Ida. And next to Ida, I'm also joined today by Andrea, and we have started the year strongly.

非常感謝你，Laura，各位早安，歡迎參加我們 2026 年第一季的業績電話會議。希望各位一切安好，也感謝今天加入我們。坐在我旁邊的是我們的新任財務長 Ida Lerner。Ida 於 4 月 1 日加入我們，我們非常高興她能加入團隊。歡迎你，Ida。坐在 Ida 旁邊的今天也有 Andrea 與會，而我們今年開局表現強勁。

The first quarter of 2026 unfollowed against the backdrop of geopolitical and macroeconomic uncertainty However, our performance demonstrates once again the resilience of our business and of our clients. And we have continued to deliver strong and diversified growth, and we're well on track to achieve our full year financial outlook.

2026 年第一季是在地緣政治與總體經濟不確定性的背景下展開。然而，我們的表現再次展現了我們業務以及客戶的韌性。我們持續交出強勁且多元化的成長，並且正穩步朝向達成全年財務展望。

In today's presentation to our financial outlook. In today's presentation, I will talk about the resilience of our growth strategy and how the consistent execution thereof is delivering increasing value. After that, Ida will walk you through the quarterly financials. And at the end of the call, we will be happy to take your questions.

在今天的簡報中，將聚焦我們的財務展望。我會談到我們成長策略的韌性，以及持續一致的執行如何帶來日益提升的價值。之後，Ida 會帶各位檢視本季財務表現。通話最後，我們也很樂意回答各位的提問。

And with that, we now start on slide 2. This slide highlights our continued commercial momentum going into '26 with solid growth across all key areas. And as you will remember, we had ended 2025 with very strong volumes including some seasonal inflows. And we have managed to maintain that strong positive momentum also across the first quarter, more than absorbing the seasonal effects and continuing to push volumes even further up.

接著我們從第 2 頁投影片開始。本頁重點呈現我們在邁入 2026 年時持續的商業動能，在所有關鍵領域皆有穩健成長。各位還記得，我們在 2025 年底以非常強勁的量能作結，其中包含一些季節性流入。而我們也成功在第一季維持這股強勁的正向動能，不僅充分吸收季節性影響，並持續把量能推升到更高水準。

Mobile primary customer growth, for instance, is seasonally lower in the first quarter. However, we managed to grow by another 125,000 and we continue to be on track to achieve our EUR1 million growth target also in 2026. Loan growth was again strong at an annualized pace of more than 8%. In Retail Banking, we've grown by 9.4% in the first quarter. And besides continued momentum in mortgages, we also saw strong growth in Business Banking, where we continue to expand the franchise.

例如，行動端主要客戶（mobile primary customer）的成長在第一季通常因季節性因素而較低。然而，我們仍新增了 12.5 萬名，並持續朝 2026 年達成 100 萬名成長目標的軌道前進。放款成長同樣強勁，年化增速超過 8%。在零售銀行方面，我們第一季成長 9.4%。除房貸動能延續外，我們也看到商業銀行（Business Banking）強勁成長，並持續擴大業務版圖。

In Wholesale Banking, we grew the loan book by EUR5.6 billion while keeping its risk-weighted assets broadly stable. We also saw solid inflow in deposits at an annualized rate of 4% despite seasonal outflows from current accounts in the first quarter and despite conversion into investment products.

在批發銀行（Wholesale Banking）方面，我們在風險加權資產（RWA）大致維持穩定的同時，放款餘額增加了 56 億歐元。我們也看到存款以年化 4% 的速度穩健流入，儘管第一季活期存款因季節性因素出現流出，且部分資金轉換為投資型產品。

Fee income rose by 13% year-on-year, supported by our growing customer base by higher customer trading volumes and by strong deal flow in Wholesale Banking. And all of this translated into a return on tangible equity of 13.6% for the quarter. And finally, our sustainable volume mobilized has increased by 11% year-on-year as we continue to support our clients in their sustainable transitions.

手續費收入年增 13%，主要受惠於客戶基礎擴大、客戶交易量提升，以及批發銀行強勁的交易案源（deal flow）。這些表現使本季有形股東權益報酬率（ROTE）達到 13.6%。最後，我們所動員的永續量（sustainable volume mobilized）年增 11%，持續支持客戶進行永續轉型。

Now, let's move on to the next slide to take a closer look at the fundamentals of our continued commercial growth. Slide 3 summarizes how the resilience of our business supports our growth strategy also in a more challenging environment. And let me start by saying that the main driver of ING's commercial growth is the superior experience that we provide to our customers.

接下來我們看下一頁投影片，更深入檢視我們持續商業成長的基本面。第 3 頁總結了在更具挑戰的環境下，我們業務的韌性如何支撐成長策略。我先說明，推動 ING 商業成長的主要驅動力，是我們為客戶提供的卓越體驗。

With a leading Net Promoter Score in most of our retail markets, we continue to attract new customers, and we see even stronger growth in the conversion into mobile primary relationships as more customers choose ING as their primary bank. And this deepening of the relationship with our customers is furthermore supported by the broadening of our product offering.

在多數零售市場擁有領先的淨推薦值（Net Promoter Score, NPS），使我們持續吸引新客戶；而隨著更多客戶選擇 ING 作為其主要往來銀行，我們在轉換為行動端主要往來關係（mobile primary relationships）方面的成長更為強勁。此外，透過擴大產品供給，我們也進一步加深與客戶的關係。

And here, we see strong momentum across all of our businesses, helping to further diversify our revenues across a growing range of capabilities. We've recently launched Business Banking in Italy, and in the Netherlands, we are rolling out an insurance broker model to further integrate insurance capabilities into our mobile app.

在此，我們看到各項業務皆具強勁動能，協助我們在不斷擴大的能力範圍內，進一步分散收入來源。我們近期在義大利推出商業銀行服務；在荷蘭，我們正推行保險經紀（insurance broker）模式，以進一步把保險能力整合進我們的行動 App。

We are achieving most of our lending growth in mortgages and as the leading European mortgage bank, we benefit from continued strong market fundamentals. The strength of our largest mortgage market is supported by constant low unemployment rates and a resilient market outlook. And our Wholesale Bank is well positioned to support Europe's strategic resilience with deep expertise in key focus areas, including in infrastructure and TMT, and as a top three MLA and Bokonin Europe and with our strong DCM franchise. Also, Bank is ready to support the investment initiatives that are needed to strengthen Europe's position in a global context.

我們的放款成長多數來自房貸；作為歐洲領先的房貸銀行，我們受惠於持續強勁的市場基本面。我們最大房貸市場的強勢，來自於長期低失業率與具韌性的市場展望。而我們的批發銀行也具備良好定位，可憑藉在基礎建設與 TMT 等關鍵聚焦領域的深厚專業，支持歐洲的策略韌性；同時，作為歐洲前三大 MLA 與 Bokonin Europe，並擁有強大的 DCM 業務平台（franchise），我們也已準備好支持強化歐洲在全球格局中地位所需的投資倡議。

And with that, we move to slide 4. And on this slide, you can see how the consistent execution of our strategy is driving value, supported by rising profitability and by our consistent deployment of share buyback programs, our EPS has improved by 11% on a 12-month rolling basis. And with EPS and the return on tangible equity, clearly, on a rising path, we have set firm direction towards our profitability targets by 2027.

接著我們來到第 4 頁。本頁顯示我們策略的一致執行如何推動價值提升；在獲利能力上升以及持續推動庫藏股回購計畫的支持下，我們的每股盈餘（EPS）以過去 12 個月滾動基礎計算提升了 11%。隨著 EPS 與有形股東權益報酬率（ROTE）明顯走升，我們已朝 2027 年的獲利目標設定明確方向。

We see a wide range of strong catalysts that will support further value creation. First of all, we continue to grow our mobile primary customer base by EUR1 million per year. And this means that we're not just growing the number of accounts, this is growth from customers who actually use ING as their primary bank.

我們看到多項強勁催化因素將支持進一步的價值創造。首先，我們持續以每年 100 萬名的速度擴大行動端主要客戶基礎。這代表我們不只是增加帳戶數，而是來自真正把 ING 作為主要往來銀行的客戶成長。

And this is the core engine of our growth strategy. This is where our growth, income diversification and superior cost to serve all come together. In addition, that's number two, we continue to expand our business and develop new business streams we are further rolling out our successful business banking franchise into several countries. We're building our Private Banking and Wealth Management as a third retail banking pillar in our existing markets. We're continuously developing new insurance propositions to make insurance a relevant revenue stream. And in Wholesale Banking, we're making strong progress to further diversify our capabilities in capital-light revenues.

這正是我們成長策略的核心引擎：成長、收入多元化與更優的服務成本（cost to serve）在此匯聚。此外，第二點，我們持續擴張業務並發展新的業務來源：我們正把成功的商業銀行模式進一步推廣到多個國家；在既有市場中，我們正將私人銀行與財富管理打造為零售銀行的第三支柱；我們也持續開發新的保險方案，使保險成為具關聯性的收入來源；而在批發銀行方面，我們在進一步分散輕資本（capital-light）收入能力上也取得顯著進展。

And thirdly, when it comes to growth, growth becomes powerful only when it is truly scalable. And our continued focus on operational excellence is increasingly enabling us to achieve growth in a truly scalable way. combined with our capabilities to scale AI solutions quickly, we see a powerful improvement in growing commercial value and volumes at a much faster pace than our cost base.

第三，談到成長，只有在真正具備可擴展性（scalable）時，成長才會變得強大。我們持續聚焦營運卓越，正日益使我們能以真正可擴展的方式實現成長。結合我們快速擴大 AI 解決方案的能力，我們看到一項強而有力的改善：商業價值與量能的成長速度，明顯快於我們的成本基礎。

And finally, number four, we continue to improve our already strong level of capital efficiency, supported by continued capital velocity measures, both in Wholesale Banking and in Retail Banking. And all of this is not a journey that we will start tomorrow or in the years to come but one that is already well underway and one where we see its strong results already clearly today.

最後，第四點，我們持續提升本已強勁的資本效率水準，並透過在批發銀行與零售銀行推動的資本周轉（capital velocity）措施加以支撐。而這並不是我們明天或未來幾年才要開始的旅程；它已經在進行中，而且我們今天就已清楚看到其強勁成果。

Now, let's zoom in for a minute on that topic of scalability, moving to slide 5. On slide 5, we demonstrate how we're increasingly enabling scalable growth. And first, I want to touch upon what drives our ability to achieve scalable growth. Now, ING has a long track record of digitalization. And as a result, the vast majority of our key customer journeys are already fully straight through without any human intervention. And this is a key ingredient. not only for superior customer experience, but also for achieving true cost efficiency.

現在，讓我們針對可擴展性這個主題再深入一點，來到第 5 頁。在第 5 頁，我們展示我們如何日益促成可擴展的成長。首先，我想談談驅動我們達成可擴展成長能力的因素。ING 在數位化方面有長期的良好紀錄。因此，我們絕大多數的關鍵客戶旅程已可完全端到端自動化處理（straight through），無需任何人工介入。這是關鍵要素之一，不僅帶來更優的客戶體驗，也有助於實現真正的成本效率。

And in addition to a high level of digitalization, we also have built strong foundational capabilities that enable scalability. For example, we have our global hubs network and that houses 27% of our tech employees and 40% of our operations workforce. and a fully integrated and scalable network organization supports improved productivity and operational resilience, but also our scalable tech platform, which includes core infrastructure components such as our global private cloud and our global technology platform that provides reusable shared services for product development.

此外，除了高度數位化之外，我們也建立了強大的基礎能力以支援可擴展性。例如，我們的全球樞紐（global hubs）網絡，容納了 27% 的科技員工與 40% 的營運人力；而一個完全整合且可擴展的網絡型組織，有助於提升生產力與營運韌性。同時，我們也擁有可擴展的科技平台，其中包含核心基礎設施組件，例如全球私有雲（global private cloud）與全球技術平台，為產品開發提供可重複使用的共享服務。

And we add these two ingredients together, digitalization and a scalable tech operations organization, then you have a very strong starting point to deploy AI solutions. And that is why we have been able to already roll out many AI solutions at scale quickly. More than 90% of our AI pilots have successfully been moved into production.

而當我們把這兩個要素結合在一起——數位化，以及可擴展的科技營運組織——你就擁有部署 AI 解決方案的非常強大起點。這也是為什麼我們已經能夠迅速以規模化方式推出許多 AI 解決方案。我們超過 90% 的 AI 試點已成功轉入正式上線（production）。

More than 75% of our customer are fully resolved by AI without human support. More than 7 million customers have already received hyper personalized marketing campaigns with Agentic mortgages, live in production in the Netherlands and soon rolling out to other countries. And we are on the verge of globally rolling out conversational banking for our retail customers, which is a personal assistant with an agenetic experience.

我們超過 75% 的客戶需求已可由 AI 在無需人工支援的情況下完全解決。已有超過 700 萬名客戶收到透過 Agentic mortgages 所提供的高度個人化行銷活動，目前已在荷蘭正式上線，並即將推廣至其他國家。我們也即將在全球為零售客戶推出對話式銀行服務（conversational banking），這是一個具備代理式（agentic）體驗的個人助理。

Then, when you then look back over cost performance over the past 12 months and in comparison to our commercial growth, there you then see the powerful proof of our ability to achieve scalable growth. Because over the past 12 months, we have grown our mobile primary customer base by almost 7%. Our customer balances by more than 5%. Our volumes in investment products by more than 15% and fee income even by 15.6%. But our FTEs, however, decreased by 0.6%, while our cost growth was limited to 2%. And with our commercial growth significantly outpacing incremental costs, we are delivering clear scalable growth, supporting meaningful improvements of our efficiency ratios in the years to come.

接著，當你回顧過去 12 個月的成本表現，並與我們的商業成長相比，你就能看到我們實現可擴展成長能力的有力證明。因為在過去 12 個月，我們的行動端主要客戶基礎成長了將近 7%；客戶餘額成長超過 5%；投資產品量成長超過 15%，手續費收入甚至成長 15.6%。但我們的 FTE（全職人力）反而下降 0.6%，同時成本成長被控制在 2%。在商業成長顯著超越增量成本的情況下，我們正展現清晰的可擴展成長，並在未來幾年支持效率比率的實質改善。

Now, let's move to slide 6. On slide 6, we show how the consistent execution of our growth strategy is resulting in strong capital generation. Over the past 12 months, we have delivered EUR6.4 billion in net profit, contributing almost 2 percentage points of our CET1 ratio. And of that, EUR6.4 billion, 50% has been reserved for our regular dividend distributions. Around 15% of the capital we generated has been used to fund profitable growth across our markets.

現在，讓我們看第 6 頁。在第 6 頁，我們展示了持續執行成長策略如何帶來強勁的資本生成。過去 12 個月，我們實現了 64 億歐元的淨利，對我們的 CET1 比率貢獻了接近 2 個百分點。在這 64 億歐元中，有 50% 已預留用於我們例行的股利分配。我們所生成資本中約 15% 用於支持各市場的獲利性成長。

And here, we see a clear demonstration of capital efficiency. We have generated EUR65 billion of profitable lending growth over the past 12 months while consuming only EUR1 billion of capital. And finally, the generated capital was not -- that was not needed for organic growth, we have returned to shareholders with a total amount of EUR4.4 billion of additional distributions over the past 12 months, largely in the form of share buybacks.

在這裡，我們看到資本效率的清楚展現。過去 12 個月，我們創造了 650 億歐元的獲利性放款成長，但僅消耗 10 億歐元資本。最後，對於未用於有機成長所需的生成資本，我們在過去 12 個月以合計 44 億歐元的額外分配返還給股東，主要以庫藏股回購的形式進行。

Now, let's move to slide 7, where I will show how these distributions have resulted in continued attractive shareholder return. In line with our distribution policy, page 7, we have consistently paid cash dividends, and we have been executing significant share buyback programs for several years. And together, this results in consistent and attractive total distributions per share.

現在，讓我們看第 7 頁，我將說明這些分配如何帶來持續具吸引力的股東報酬。依照我們的分配政策，在第 7 頁可以看到，我們一貫支付現金股利，且多年來持續執行大規模的股票回購計畫。兩者合計，使得每股總分配呈現穩定且具吸引力的水準。

The previously announced share buyback of EUR1.1 billion has been completed this week. And today, we have already started with another EUR1 billion share buyback program, which will run for the next six months. And when we look ahead, we remain fully committed to strong capital discipline to deliver strong shareholder results, and we maintain our semi-annual rhythm of assessing the potential for additional distributions and we will update you again in six months' time.

先前宣布的 11 億歐元股票回購已於本週完成。而今天，我們已啟動另一項 10 億歐元的股票回購計畫，將在未來六個月內執行。展望未來，我們仍將堅守嚴格的資本紀律，以交付強勁的股東成果；並維持每半年評估一次額外分配可能性的節奏，我們將在六個月後再次向各位更新。

Now, before handing over to Ida, let me first take you to slide 9. On slide 9, we confirm our financial outlook for '26 and 2027. We're well on track to achieve our upgraded outlook, which we communicated in the previous quarter with our full year results. We continue to add 1 million mobile primary customers per year. We see continued momentum in building out our fee income. We will deliver positive operating jaws in the years to come. and we are delivering on a broad range of catalysts that will continue to support the upper part of our RTE in the years to come as well.

現在，在交棒給 Ida 之前，先帶各位看第 9 頁。在第 9 頁，我們確認 2026 年與 2027 年的財務展望。我們正穩步朝向達成上調後的展望前進，該展望已在上一季、隨全年業績一併對外溝通。我們仍將每年新增 100 萬名行動端主要客戶；我們看到手續費收入的建置持續有動能；未來幾年我們將實現正向 operating jaws（營運剪刀差）；同時，我們也在推進一系列催化因素，將在未來幾年持續支撐我們 RTE 的上緣表現。

Now, let me hand over to Ida, who will walk you through our first quarter results in more detail, starting from slide 11.

現在我把時間交給 Ida，她將從第 11 頁開始，更詳細地帶各位回顧我們第一季的業績。

Thank you, Steven. It is my pleasure to present the results of what has been a very strong first quarter two. On slide 11, we can see that commercial NII has continued its upward trend since the second half of 2025. This is supported by continued volume growth on both sides of the balance sheet. by disciplined commercial pricing and by the hedging tailwind on our replicated customer deposits.

謝謝你，Steven。我很高興向各位呈現這個非常強勁的第一季成果。在第 11 頁，我們可以看到商業 NII（淨利息收入）自 2025 年下半年以來持續上升。這主要受資產負債表兩端的持續量增、嚴謹的商業定價，以及我們複製型客戶存款（replicated customer deposits）所帶來的避險順風所支撐。

Fee income also continued its upward trend, driven by further customer growth and by strong performance, particularly in investment products and in Wholesale Banking. All other income, on the other hand, was affected by the heightened market volatility towards the end of the quarter. This has resulted in some IFRS asymmetrical effects, of which the majority should come back over time, given lower interest rate volatility ahead. Overall, the strong customer activity and volume growth noted in the first quarter outweighed the lower all other income and led to an uptick in total income of 3% compared to the same quarter last year.

手續費收入也延續上升趨勢，受進一步的客戶成長與強勁表現帶動，尤其是在投資產品與批發銀行（Wholesale Banking）方面。另一方面，其他收入則受到季末市場波動加劇的影響，導致出現一些 IFRS 的非對稱效果；在未來利率波動降低的情況下，其中大部分應會隨時間回轉。整體而言，第一季強勁的客戶活動與量增，抵銷了其他收入較低的影響，使總收入較去年同期上升 3%。

Let's now move to slide 12, where we will show the development of our customer balances. As you can see, we delivered another quarter of strong commercial growth. across both Retail Banking and Wholesale Banking. Net core lending increased by EUR15 billion. Retail Banking contributed EUR9.4 billion driven by continued mortgage growth with strong production in the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Australia.

接著看第 12 頁，我們將展示客戶餘額的發展。如各位所見，我們再度交出一季強勁的商業成長，涵蓋零售銀行（Retail Banking）與批發銀行。核心淨放款增加 150 億歐元，其中零售銀行貢獻 94 億歐元，主要由房貸持續成長所帶動，且在荷蘭、德國、義大利與澳洲的承作量表現強勁。

This was coupled with this particularly strong performance in Business Banking, mainly in Netherlands and Poland. Wholesale Banking also delivered strong growth of GBP 5.6 billion while keeping risk-weighted assets broadly stable. Within this growth of EUR5.6 billion, we see a strong net inflow of EUR 7.8 billion in lending, which was partly offset by the repayment of a short-term working capital solution facility.

同時，商業銀行（Business Banking）也有特別強勁的表現，主要來自荷蘭與波蘭。批發銀行在風險加權資產大致維持穩定的同時，也實現了 56 億（以 GBP 計） 的強勁成長。在這 56 億歐元的成長中，我們看到放款淨流入達 78 億歐元，但部分被一筆短期營運資金解決方案額度的償還所抵銷。

On the liability side, core deposits increased by EUR 7.2 billion. Retail Banking contributed GBP 4.3 billion of growth, with strong inflows into savings and term deposits most notably in Poland, Belgium and the Netherlands. This more than offset the seasonal outflow from current accounts and the conversion into investment products. Wholesale Banking added GBP 2.9 billion of customer deposit as it continues to build out its capital-light income capabilities.

在負債端，核心存款增加 72 億歐元。零售銀行貢獻 43 億（以 GBP 計） 的成長，主要來自儲蓄與定期存款的強勁流入，尤以波蘭、比利時與荷蘭最為顯著。這不僅抵銷了活期存款的季節性流出，也抵銷了轉入投資產品的影響。批發銀行新增 29 億（以 GBP 計） 的客戶存款，因其持續建構輕資本（capital-light）的收入能力。

On to slide 13. On this slide, we zoom in on commercial NII. Commercial NII grew by EUR132 million quarter-on-quarter and was 7% higher than last year. Lending NII was up EUR 41 million in the first quarter despite a lower day count driven by sustained volume growth at stable margins. Liability NII increased by EUR91 million quarter-on-quarter, reflecting both volume growth and 5 basis points increase in the liability margin.

接著看第 13 頁。本頁我們聚焦於商業 NII。商業 NII 季增 1.32 億歐元，且較去年高出 7%。第一季放款 NII 增加 4,100 萬歐元，儘管天數較少，但在利差穩定下，持續的量增帶動成長。負債端 NII 季增 9,100 萬歐元，反映了量增以及負債利差上升 5 個基點。

This higher liability margin is a reflection of the prolonged hedging tailwind on our replicated deposits while maintaining disciplined commercial pricing across the back book of our deposits. What it also reflects is the absence of larger savings campaigns during the first quarter meaning that the level of acquisition costs was relatively low this quarter and will likely normalize again in the coming quarters.

較高的負債利差反映了我們複製型存款所帶來的避險順風延續，同時我們在存款存量（back book）上仍維持嚴謹的商業定價。這也反映第一季並未進行較大型的儲蓄促銷活動，意味著本季的獲客成本水準相對較低，未來幾季可能會再度回到常態。

As such, let me be clear that we should not expect the 5 basis points increase of the liability margin every quarter ahead. Looking ahead, on the back of a very strong first quarter and especially the higher-than-expected volume growth, we can expect a slightly higher level of commercial NII than previously guided. We now expect commercial NII for the full year to be between EUR16.5 billion and EUR16.7 billion.

因此，我要清楚說明：我們不應預期未來每一季負債利差都會增加 5 個基點。展望未來，基於第一季非常強勁的表現，尤其是量增高於預期，我們可預期商業 NII 將略高於先前指引。我們目前預期全年商業 NII 將介於 165 億至 167 億歐元之間。

Turning to slide 14. I Fee income growth remained strong, increasing 13% year-on-year and was also up on the prior quarter. What is especially encouraging to see is that this strong performance of fee income stems from all products and all markets, supporting the diversification of income sources for the bank.

接著看第 14 頁。手續費收入成長仍然強勁，年增 13%，也較前一季上升。特別令人鼓舞的是，這樣的強勁表現來自所有產品與所有市場，支持本行收入來源的多元化。

In retail banking, fee income grew by 13% year-on-year. This was mainly driven by structural factors such as continued customer growth and improved cross-selling. Investment products, in particular, performed very well.

在零售銀行方面，手續費收入年增 13%。這主要由結構性因素帶動，例如客戶持續成長以及交叉銷售改善。尤其是投資產品表現非常出色。

A record quarter even benefiting from 8% growth in customers with an investment account and 15% growth in assets under management and administration of which roughly half comes from net inflows, while also benefiting from 13% more trades, which besides a higher customer base, was supported by the increased market volatility towards the end of the quarter. In Wholesale Banking, fee income grew by 11% year-on-year. again demonstrating its strong progress on further income diversification.

本季甚至創下單季新高，受惠於持有投資帳戶的客戶數成長 8%，以及受託管理與行政資產（assets under management and administration）成長 15%，其中約一半來自淨流入；同時也受惠於交易筆數增加 13%。除了客戶基礎擴大之外，季末市場波動加劇也提供了支撐。在批發銀行方面，手續費收入年增 11%，再次展現其在進一步推動收入多元化上的強勁進展。

Let's turn to the next slide. On slide 15, we showed the development of all other income. Here, we see that the heightened market volatility towards the end of the quarter had a negative effect on hedge ineffectiveness as well as our activities within financial markets. It's worth remembering, however, that the P&L impact from the hedging effectiveness is not economic in nature. It is account driven and should reverse over time.

讓我們看下一張投影片。在第15頁，我們展示了其他所有收入的發展情況。在這裡，我們看到季度末市場波動加劇，對避險無效性以及我們在金融市場內的活動都產生了負面影響。不過值得記住的是，避險有效性對損益（P&L）的影響在本質上並非經濟性的；它是由會計處理所驅動，並且應會隨時間推移而回轉。

In financial markets, we continue to support our clients through the volatile market conditions. However, all other income was impacted by the sharp increase in interest rates. Overall, we expect all other income for the full year to be slightly lower than our normal run rate, ending somewhere between EUR2.5 billion and EUR 2.7 billion.

在金融市場方面，我們持續在波動的市場環境中支持客戶。然而，其他所有收入受到利率急劇上升的影響。整體而言，我們預期全年其他所有收入將略低於我們的正常運行水準，最終落在25億歐元至27億歐元之間。

Next, slide 16. Expenses, excluding regulatory costs and incidental items showed only a moderate increase year-on-year of 1.1%. Clearly demonstrating our disciplined approach to cost management and our scalable growth capabilities. The impact from wage inflation was largely offset by savings from prior restructuring while allowing for ongoing investments to support business growth.

接下來，第16頁。費用（不含監管成本與一次性項目）年增僅溫和上升1.1%，清楚展現我們在成本管理上的紀律，以及可擴展的成長能力。薪資通膨的影響大多被先前重組所帶來的節省所抵銷，同時也保留了持續投資以支持業務成長。

Quarter-on-quarter, expenses were down slightly, mainly driven by seasonally lower customer acquisition costs in the first quarter. Incidental items of EUR13 million for the quarter included EUR25 million of restructuring provisions for the full-time employee reduction in wholesale banking and in Retail Banking Belgium. Once fully implemented, these measures are expected to lead to approximately EUR20 million in annualized cost savings.

按季比較，費用略為下降，主要是因第一季客戶獲取成本季節性較低。本季一次性項目為1,300萬歐元，其中包含2,500萬歐元的重組準備金，用於批發銀行以及比利時零售銀行的全職員工縮減。一旦全面落實，預期這些措施將帶來約2,000萬歐元的年化成本節省。

Now, let's move to risk costs on slide 17. I Total risk costs were EUR346 million in the quarter, equivalent to 19 basis points of average customer lending, which is slightly below our through-the-cycle average reflecting the quality and the strength of our loan book.

現在，讓我們看第17頁的風險成本。I 本季總風險成本為3.46億歐元，相當於平均客戶放款的19個基點，略低於我們跨景氣循環的平均水準，反映出我們貸款組合的品質與韌性。

Within this quarter's risk cost, we have included a prudent overlay to address the possible impact of higher energy prices and of the broader economic effects of the war in the Middle East. This EUR94 million addition to management overlays was, however, partly offset by a large repayment of a Stage 3 loan in Wholesale Banking. The Stage 3 ratio slightly improved to a low 1.5%. Overall, we remain confident in the strength and quality of our loan book.

在本季的風險成本中，我們納入了審慎的管理層疊加（overlay），以因應能源價格上升以及中東戰爭對更廣泛經濟可能造成的影響。這筆9,400萬歐元的管理層疊加增加額，部分被批發銀行一筆第3階段（Stage 3）貸款的大額償還所抵銷。第3階段比率小幅改善至1.5%的低位。整體而言，我們仍對貸款組合的強度與品質保持信心。

And finally, before handing it back to Steven, let me take you to slide 18. On slide 18, we show the development of our core equity Tier 1 ratio. Continued strong capital generation and overall solidity allowed us to announce and start a new EUR1 billion share buyback program today. while maintaining our core equity Tier 1 at our around 13% target level.

最後，在交回給Steven之前，讓我帶各位看第18頁。在第18頁，我們展示核心第一類股本比率（CET1）的變化。持續強勁的資本生成與整體穩健性，使我們今天得以宣布並啟動新的10億歐元庫藏股回購計畫，同時將核心第一類股本比率維持在約13%的目標水準。

In terms of risk-weighted assets for the quarter, these increased by EUR3.6 billion. Besides a EUR0.9 billion FX impact, this mainly reflected continued business growth. Within Wholesale Banking, the risk-weighted assets remained broadly stable despite strong lending growth, reflecting the continued capital velocity measures that have been taken within Wholesale Banking. What is new this quarter is a change in our dividend reserving approach to ensure compliance with EBA guidelines as of this quarter, our additional distributions will mainly be financed through upfront reserving.

就本季風險加權資產而言，增加了36億歐元。除9億歐元的匯率（FX）影響外，主要反映業務持續成長。在批發銀行方面，儘管放款成長強勁，風險加權資產仍大致持平，反映批發銀行持續採取的資本周轉（capital velocity）措施。本季的新變化是，我們調整了股利提存方式，以確保符合歐洲銀行管理局（EBA）指引；自本季起，我們的額外分配將主要透過事前提存（upfront reserving）來籌措。

The implementation of this new reserving approach had a one-off effect this quarter of minus 23 basis points. In total, the additional distribution has an impact of roughly 29 basis points on our core equity Tier 1. This is merely a change in reserving approach. Our distribution policy remains unchanged.

這項新的提存方式在本季產生一次性影響，為負23個基點。合計而言，額外分配對我們核心第一類股本比率的影響約為29個基點。這僅是提存方式的改變；我們的分配政策維持不變。

And with that, let me hand it back to Steven to wrap up today's presentation.

那麼，我把時間交回給Steven，為今天的簡報作結。

Very good. Thank you, Ida. And before we move to Q&A, let me recap the key takeaways from today's presentation. The resilience of our business supports the continued execution of our growth strategy also amidst geopolitical uncertainty. The consistent execution of that growth strategy is clearly driving value with strong momentum in our profitability metrics, and we have a right range of further increased value.

很好。謝謝你，Ida。在進入問答之前，讓我回顧今天簡報的重點結論。我們業務的韌性支持我們在地緣政治不確定性之下，仍能持續執行成長策略。對該成長策略的一貫執行，正以強勁動能推動我們獲利指標的價值創造，而且我們也有適當的空間進一步提升價值。

Our commercial growth is significantly outpacing the growth in expenses, reflecting our strong foundational capabilities to achieve scalable growth. And as a result, we see continued strong capital generation, which enabled us to start a new EUR1 billion share buyback program today. And finally, we are well on track to deliver on our full year financial outlook.

我們的商業成長明顯快於費用成長，反映我們具備實現可擴展成長的強大基礎能力。因此，我們看到資本生成持續強勁，使我們今天得以啟動新的10億歐元庫藏股回購計畫。最後，我們正按計畫推進，以達成全年財務展望。

And with that, I would like to open the floor for Q&A. Operator, back to you.

那麼，我想開放進入問答。接線員，交給你。

(Operator Instructions) Benoit Batra, Kepler Cheuvreux.

（接線員指示）Benoit Batra，Kepler Cheuvreux。

Welcome Ida, and we are looking forward to talk to you in the coming days. So yes, two questions on my side. The first one will be on the liability margin, the 104. Clearly, we should not replicate the plus 5 bps quarter-on-quarter. But objectively, looking into the second quarter, yes, it looks like there's further support from the short end of the curve. So I wanted to confirm that with you, if you see that as well. And could you please also talk about the competitive environment on the deposit side so far in the month of April? Well, it seems to be still okay.

歡迎你，Ida，我們也期待在接下來幾天與你交流。那我這邊有兩個問題。第一個是關於負債利差（liability margin），也就是104。顯然，我們不應該複製按季增加5個基點的表現。但客觀來看第二季，曲線短端似乎仍有進一步支撐。所以我想跟你確認一下，你是否也看到同樣情況？另外，也請你談談截至4月目前為止，存款端的競爭環境如何？看起來似乎仍然還可以。

So I just wanted to get a bit of a feeling about how deposit pricing behave in your main markets so far in the second quarter. And then the second question, yes, sorry, I will just talk about a bit more like the strategy on the insurance because it's interesting what you've done. I think what you announced two weeks ago, you will be mandated broker in the Netherlands for NN and Allianz.

所以我只是想稍微了解一下，在第二季迄今，你們主要市場的存款定價表現如何。第二個問題，抱歉，我想再多談一點保險策略，因為你們做的事情很有意思。我想你們兩週前宣布，你們將在荷蘭擔任NN與Allianz的指定經紀（mandated broker）。

So what is your strategy now on the insurance? It seems that things will probably speed up in terms of growth there. Just wanted to understand your long-term plan regarding insurance. And clearly, with this move into broker, I think you are stepping up in the value chain of insurance, which could probably could accelerate the growth there. So yes, the long-term picture on insurance, please.

那麼你們現在的保險策略是什麼？看起來那邊的成長可能會加速。想了解你們對保險的長期規劃。而且很明顯，透過轉向經紀模式，我認為你們正在保險價值鏈中往上游提升，這可能也會加快那邊的成長。所以，請談談保險的長期藍圖。

Yeah. Thanks, Benoit, for your questions. And I'll take the question on insurance and Ida will talk about the liability margin. Look, in insurance, it's a little bit the same as we saw on investment products. So I think a couple of years ago, we started to talk again to our insurance partners to look at, okay, what is the best proposition for which market, for which customer segments and how does each market develop itself.

好的。謝謝你，Benoit，提出這些問題。我先回答保險的問題，Ida 會談負債利差。你看，保險方面其實有點像我們在投資產品上看到的情況。我想幾年前，我們又開始與保險合作夥伴重新討論，看看：對於哪個市場、哪個客戶族群，什麼樣的產品主張（proposition）最好，以及各市場如何發展。

And it comes a bit back to what I said previously, which is we have been very dependent on interest income, whether it was deposits or lending. And there's nothing wrong with these two products. But in the end, we want to build up a broader client relationship when growing our primary relationships across the board. And in that regard, we have also started to do that with insurance.

這也回到我先前提到的一點：我們過去非常依賴利息收入，不論是存款或放款。這兩種產品本身沒有問題，但最終我們希望在全面提升主要往來關係（primary relationships）的同時，建立更廣泛的客戶關係。就此而言，我們也開始在保險上採取同樣做法。

I think a few quarters ago, we started to report on that separately. Every market works a bit differently. So in some markets, we have one partner. In this market, we work more with a platform model, whereby insurance partners can subscribe to certain products.

我想在幾個季度前，我們開始把這部分單獨揭露。每個市場的運作方式都不太一樣。因此在某些市場，我們只有一個合作夥伴；而在這個市場，我們更多採用平台模式，讓保險合作夥伴可以訂閱某些產品。

And increasingly, we're also moving up the value chain. In some of the markets, the insurance fees are still very low, like I said in the past about investment business that I said the asset under management business compared to other banks that are smaller than us is still relatively benign. That also goes for insurance.

而且我們也愈來愈往價值鏈上游移動。在某些市場，保險手續費仍然很低；就像我過去談投資業務時提到的，我們的資產管理規模（AUM）業務相較於一些比我們小的銀行，仍屬相對溫和。保險也是如此。

So in my view, we have just nearly started. It is getting better. We've seen that the growth was, I believe, 14% compared to a year ago. This is good, but we're still rolling out in more markets. We're hiring people and specialists, and we are maturing and also the way we provide insurance. And that could indeed also be taking over some more services. We currently don't think about taking over underwriting services, but we really tailor it in each market where we're at, and there's quite a bit of upside in -- from where we currently are.

所以在我看來，我們幾乎才剛開始。情況正在改善。我們看到成長率我記得是較去年同期增加14%。這很好，但我們仍在更多市場推進落地。我們正在招募人員與專家，並讓我們的保險提供方式更成熟。這確實也可能意味著承接更多服務。我們目前不考慮承接核保（underwriting）服務，但我們會依各市場的現況量身打造，而從目前的位置來看，仍有相當大的上行空間。

Thank you for your question on liability margin as well as on competition. I think I'll start with the competition on deposits. I think it's important to say that we see strong but rational competition, both on deposits, but also on lending in all our main markets. When looking particularly at the first quarter, that's seasonally a lower quarter when it comes to deposits.

也謝謝你關於負債利差以及競爭的提問。我先從存款競爭談起。我認為重要的是，我們在所有主要市場都看到競爭強勁但理性，不僅在存款端，也在放款端。特別看第一季，存款通常是季節性較低的一季。

If you compare it year-over-year, you need to also keep in mind that in the first quarter last year, we did a larger campaign in Germany, which meant that we have a stronger inflow of -- we still see that we have an attractive offering towards our customers, and we continue to balance profitability above growth -- around growth and ensure that we have a sustainable development also on deposits in line with what we've guided on in terms of an average growth of 5%, where we think it would be natural to see a deposit growth.

如果你以年對年來比較，你也需要記住，去年第一季我們在德國做了一個較大型的活動，這意味著我們有更強的資金流入——我們仍然看到我們對客戶提供具吸引力的方案，而且我們持續在成長之上優先平衡獲利能力——在成長周邊取得平衡，並確保存款也能依照我們所給出的指引達到可持續的發展；就我們認為自然會看到存款成長而言，我們指引的是平均 5% 的成長。

On the liability margin, it's good that you point out that we should not expect a 5 basis points increase on the liability margin every quarter. And what I think is important to say is that we expect to be in the mid-range of between 100 basis points and 110 basis points this year, also driven by a hedging tailwind, which comes in gradually, but not exactly linear and particularly a reflection of the lower than usual campaign-related deposit cost in the first quarter. So that's also something that needs to be taken into account when looking at the liability margin ahead.

在負債端利差方面，你指出我們不應預期負債端利差每一季都增加 5 個基點，這點很好。我認為重要的是要說，我們預期今年會落在 100 個基點到 110 個基點的中段區間，這也受到避險帶來的順風所推動；該順風是逐步顯現，但並非完全線性，且在很大程度上反映第一季因活動相關因素而使存款成本低於常態。因此，在往前看負債端利差時，這也是需要納入考量的因素。

Chris Hallam, Goldman Sachs.

Chris Hallam，高盛。

Two questions. The first one, I see you've introduced on slide 27 that bullet point on the right-hand side to say the range of 100 basis points to 110 basis points could be temporarily exceeded. And I just wanted to ask more conceptually how you think about that opportunity.

兩個問題。第一個，我看到你們在第 27 頁投影片右側新增了一個重點，提到 100 個基點到 110 個基點的區間可能會暫時被超越。我想更概念性地請教，你們如何看待這個機會。

So on the one hand, you could pay up to sort of source additional deposits essentially sacrificing margin for volume and hoping maybe find the demand on the lending side to put that additional liquidity to work given you typically run about 100% LDR. But obviously, that ties up more capital and it brings in a bit more credit risk.

一方面，你可以提高付息來取得額外存款，本質上是以犧牲利差換取規模，並希望在放款端找到需求，把新增的流動性投入運用，因為你們通常的貸存比（LDR）大約在 100%。但顯然，這會占用更多資本，也會帶來一些額外的信用風險。

Now, on the other hand, you can allow volumes to react to your determined pass-through rates and just ride the tide of higher rates and underlying volume growth in your markets. You wouldn't grow deposits by as much, but it's a higher ROE and a lower credit risk strategy. I guess from the outside that's a pretty easy decision to make, but I'd just be interested to see and hear how you see the balance between those 2 strategies?

另一方面，你也可以讓量隨著你所設定的傳導率（pass-through rates）而調整，並順勢受惠於更高利率以及你們市場的基礎量成長。這樣存款不會成長那麼多，但這是一個 ROE 較高、信用風險較低的策略。我想從外部看這是個相當容易的決定，但我仍想了解你們如何看待這兩種策略之間的平衡？

And then second, of the EUR600 million increase in replicating income in 2026 again on slide 27, I know that's a gross number, but how much is included in the new commercial NII guidance? And the haircut you're taking in deciding how much of that EUR600 million to embed in the new guide? Is that because you're waiting to see where rates really settle this year? Obviously, there's a huge amount of volatility or because you actually see more price competition coming through on deposits and there being a bigger difference between the gross and the net number?

第二個問題，關於第 27 頁投影片中 2026 年複製收益（replicating income）增加 6 億歐元，我知道那是毛額，但其中有多少已納入新的商業淨利息收入（commercial NII）指引？你們在決定把這 6 億歐元中的多少納入新指引時所做的折減（haircut）是因為你們想先觀察今年利率最終落點嗎——顯然波動很大——還是因為你們其實看到存款端的價格競爭會更激烈，導致毛額與淨額之間的差距更大？

All right. So the second question I read as -- or I heard is that we gave commercial NII guidance of plus EUR200 million and how much is for more liabilities? Is that the right understanding, Chris?

好的。那第二個問題我理解為——或我聽到的是：我們給了商業 NII 指引為增加 2 億歐元，其中有多少是來自更多負債？Chris，我這樣理解對嗎？

Effectively your replicating income guidance for 2026 has gone up by EUR600 million. Your commercial NII guidance up by EUR200 million. The replicating income number there is gross. So it could be high deposit cost or it could just be using the latest forward curve on replicating income slide. You don't want to put the latest forward curve into commercial NII guidance.

實際上，你們 2026 年的複製收益指引上調了 6 億歐元；你們的商業 NII 指引上調了 2 億歐元。那裡的複製收益數字是毛額，所以可能是較高的存款成本，也可能只是複製收益投影片使用了最新的遠期曲線。你們不想把最新的遠期曲線直接放進商業 NII 指引。

Yeah. So basically, I'll take the second question and Ida takes the first question. So I think on the EUR200 million, that is basically all -- the increase is all liability income. I think that if you look at our -- the liability income that's growing both on the volume and of course, on the margin that we make and on the average duration and therefore, the curves that we see.

是的。基本上，我來回答第二個問題，Ida 回答第一個問題。我認為這 2 億歐元基本上全部——這個增幅全部來自負債端收入。我想如果你看我們的——負債端收入同時在量上成長，當然也在我們所賺取的利差上成長，並且受平均存續期間以及因此我們所看到的曲線所影響。

Now clearly, we have been moving up our deposits with EUR7 billion. that is in line with what we typically would do for the year. And sometimes we have campaigns and it goes a bit quicker, but also comes at lower margin. Now we didn't do campaigns. And if you strip out the campaigns, we are still at what we typically do in a quarter.

很明顯地，我們已把存款提高了 70 億歐元，這符合我們通常一年會做的水準。有時我們會做活動，速度會快一些，但利差也會較低。這次我們沒有做活動。如果把活動因素剔除，我們仍然處於我們通常單季會做的水準。

And of course, the margin is supported by a higher short-term interest rate that helps our current accounts. Of course, we're also helped in this case by the higher forward curve that also will help savings margins. But in the end, but what we see in the past from competition, that always trends back to a certain level.

當然，利差也受到較高的短期利率支持，這有利於我們的活期帳戶。當然，在這個情況下，我們也受惠於較高的遠期曲線，這也會支撐儲蓄利差。但最終，從過去競爭的情況來看，這總是會回到某個水準。

But based on what we currently have seen and have done to date, this is the increase in liability income we expect in commercial NII for 2026. So it has nothing to do with lending or lending margins. It's just a matter of the volumes that we expect at higher margins and a better replication rate.

但基於我們目前所看到以及迄今所做的事情，這就是我們預期 2026 年商業 NII 中負債端收入的增幅。因此這與放款或放款利差無關；只是我們預期在較高利差下的量，以及更好的複製率（replication rate）所帶來的結果。

I think it's important to say that the slide 27, which I think you're referring to, is a visualization of what we would see bearing in mind a specific forward curve. And that's also the forward curve that we saw in March. That has been quite volatile, as you know, during the quarter. Some of the benefit, as Steven also alluded to, some of the benefit from higher short-term rates is from current account volumes and therefore, structurally accretive to NII.

我認為重要的是要說，你所提到的第 27 頁投影片，是在考量特定遠期曲線下我們可能看到的情況之視覺化呈現。而那也是我們在 3 月看到的遠期曲線。你也知道，該曲線在本季期間波動相當大。部分好處——正如 Steven 也提到的——來自較高的短期利率對活期帳戶量的影響，因此在結構上對 NII 具有增益。

However, most of the benefit for us comes from the savings volumes, which is more sensitive to competition and historically has shown that the margins are fairly stable over time and is expected to also come down. And I would link that to the range of 100 basis points and 110 basis points in terms of the long-term perspective.

然而，我們大部分的好處來自儲蓄存款量，這部分對競爭更敏感，且歷史上顯示利差隨時間相對穩定，也預期會回落。我會把這與 100 個基點到 110 個基點的區間連結起來，作為長期觀點。

Taking purely the forward curve from March into account, you would say that, yes, we would potentially be higher than 110. But we also know that there is a fierce competition. There's also a very rational behavior in the bank, focusing on profitability above growth over time. When you also asked about the composition in terms of lending, will we prioritize lending over deposits. I think we've said that our long-term goal is to grow approximately equal by 5% on both sides of the balance sheet.

若純粹把 3 月的遠期曲線納入考量，你會說，是的，我們可能會高於 110。但我們也知道競爭非常激烈。同時，銀行也有非常理性的行為，長期而言聚焦於獲利能力高於成長。你也問到放款的組成——我們是否會優先放款而非存款。我想我們已說過，我們的長期目標是在資產負債表兩端都以約 5% 的速度大致等幅成長。

Julia Rora, Morgan Stanley.

Julia Rora，摩根士丹利。

I have two. So the first one, the commercial momentum was very strong in Q1. Commercial momentum was very strong in Q1 and then you called out momentum in mortgages, also growth in business banking. How is this evolving now considering the change in the macro backdrop. So are you still seeing good demand for loans? Or has that slowed down? First question.

我有兩個問題。第一個，第一季商業動能非常強，你們也提到房貸動能，以及商業銀行業務的成長。考量總體環境背景的變化，現在這些趨勢如何演變？你們仍然看到良好的放款需求嗎？還是已經放緩？這是第一個問題。

Second question, on cost of risk, the EUR94 million overlay. What oil price do you assume there? And do you -- could we see more coming in Q2 considering how things are evolving literally as we speak?

第二個問題，關於風險成本，9,400 萬歐元的額外準備（overlay）。你們在那裡假設的油價是多少？而且——考量事情正如我們此刻所見正在演變——我們是否可能在第二季看到更多的額外準備？

All right, Julia. Thanks for your question. I'll take the question commercial momentum, and Andrea will take the question on the EUR94 million overlay. So on the commercial momentum, look, there's many elements that we anticipate to continue and there are some elements where we could expect an Yes. And that hasn't really changed.

好的，Julia，謝謝你的問題。我來回答商業動能的問題，Andrea 來回答 9,400 萬歐元額外準備的問題。關於商業動能，你看，我們預期有許多要素會持續，也有一些要素我們可能會預期一個……是的。而這其實沒有太大改變。

And so we fund rates increased very, very quickly, as we've seen in the quarter of '22 and '23, then there was a little bit of a bump in the -- we have actually seen a continued rise in demand for mortgages given the fact that there is housing shortage and there's low unemployment rate.

因此，我們的資金成本利率上升得非常、非常快，正如我們在 2022 年與 2023 年的季度所看到的；之後在——方面有一點小幅上揚——我們其實看到房貸需求持續上升，原因是住房供給短缺且失業率偏低。

So that's an important element to it. When we look at fees, many of our fee growth is also driven, -- that's just having more customers doing more with us and driving more impact and relevance in the markets where we are -- and I just talked also to the question to Benoit about okay, rolling out new insurance propositions, rolling out broader investment propositions. having deeper payment capabilities in various markets, deepening our financial markets capabilities in terms of pricing for certain products.

所以這是一個重要因素。當我們看手續費時，我們許多手續費成長也是由……所驅動——也就是有更多客戶與我們往來更多，並在我們所在的市場提升影響力與相關性——我也在回覆 Benoit 的問題時提到，例如推出新的保險方案、推出更廣泛的投資方案、在不同市場強化更深的支付能力、以及在某些產品的定價上深化我們的金融市場能力。

So demand after the pipelines were full in the first half but didn't really convert based on the uncertainty given liberation day that then converts in the second half and that we see continuing -- First quarter, but with all the unsurety going on, yes, that could be more muted the overlay.

因此，在上半年管線充足之後，需求並未真正轉化，因為在「解放日」帶來的不確定性下，之後在下半年才轉化，而我們看到這種情況持續——第一季也是如此；但在各種不確定性之下，是的，這可能會更為溫和，至於額外準備……

Yes. Okay. So the primary purpose of the overlay, which we built was indeed to adjust the quarter end macroeconomic scenarios, which feeds into our Credit Suisse estimates to reflect the potential deterioration linked to the ongoing escalation in the Middle East. A

是的。好的。因此，我們建立這個疊加調整（overlay）的主要目的，確實是為了調整季末的宏觀經濟情境，這些情境會輸入到我們的瑞士信貸估計中，以反映與中東局勢持續升級相關的潛在惡化。A

nd let's say, from the coming quarter, but let's say, consider a wider set of assumptions and macroeconomic variables than the pure oil price. From the coming quarter, we expect to revert to the normal process, whereby economic -- macroeconomic consensus is feeding naturally into our loan loss provisioning process.

並且可以說，從下一個季度開始，但也就是說，會考量比單純油價更廣泛的一組假設與宏觀經濟變數。從下一個季度起，我們預期會回到正常流程，也就是經濟——宏觀經濟共識會自然地輸入到我們的貸款損失提列流程中。

And therefore, this overlay should diminish, while the net impact on the loan loss provisions will be actually depending on how the, let's say, higher oil price will affect the macroeconomic outlook. I would say. So in a nutshell, let's say, this is the setup. It's to us to come to a conclusion about the potential impact of the current oil price volatility on our --

因此，這個疊加調整應會減少，而對貸款損失準備金的淨影響，實際上將取決於（可以說）較高油價將如何影響宏觀經濟展望。我會這麼說。總而言之，可以說，這就是目前的安排。接下來要由我們來就當前油價波動對我們——的潛在影響作出結論。

Delphine Lee, JPMorgan.

Delphine Lee，摩根大通。

So my first one is -- sorry, just to come back on the liability margins and your comment about exceeding temporarily in outer years. So just to understand, you -- when you say temporarily, just to understand like you do think that there will be a significant change in competition, which you're saying at the moment is rational, but the new players and newcomers could really trigger potential change.

所以我的第一個問題是——抱歉，只是想回到負債端利差以及你提到在較遠年度可能會暫時超出。只是想確認一下——當你說「暫時」時，是不是表示你認為競爭格局會出現顯著變化？你說目前競爭是理性的，但新玩家與新進者可能真的會觸發潛在變化。

Is that -- do you think this would be sudden -- or just to kind of like understand sort of like how quickly that could bring down liability margin back into the long-term range of 100 basis points, 110 basis points? Second question is on capital. Just wanted to get your thoughts around like the change on the mortgage floor in terms of the impact that you have on your CET1 ratio and your distribution policy. You want to run around 13%. So seeing a bit of a positive impact, would that change how much you distribute in terms of buybacks?

也就是說——你認為這會是突然發生嗎——或者只是想了解一下，這可能多快會把負債端利差拉回到長期區間的100個基點、110個基點？第二個問題是資本。想聽聽你對房貸下限（mortgage floor）變動的看法，這對你們的CET1比率以及股利分配政策會有什麼影響。你們希望維持在約13%。既然看到一些正面影響，這會改變你們以庫藏股回購等方式的分配規模嗎？

Thank you very much. I'll take the question on capital, and Ida will take the question on liability margins. When we look at the mortgage floor, it's -- and what happened is that it was recently announced also that by the DNB that they took a decision and as a result of which the Dutch mortgage floor expires as per the 1st of December 2026.

非常感謝。我來回答資本的問題，Ida 來回答負債端利差的問題。談到房貸下限——最近荷蘭央行（DNB）也宣布他們已作出決定，因此荷蘭的房貸下限將於2026年12月1日到期失效。

And that decision will lead to a EUR4 billion lower risk-weighted assets. So that's about 15 basis points of our CET1 ratio. And look like we've previously said, we are looking at a target of around 13%. We use that -- we use our capital for growth and for distribution and normal distribution. And if there is any structural amount over that around 13% that we have in capital, then we'll pay it back to shareholders. And so we'll treat it any -- in the same way as we normally do.

該決定將使風險加權資產（RWA）降低40億歐元。這大約相當於我們CET1比率的15個基點。並且如同我們先前所說，我們的目標大約是13%。我們會把資本用於成長與分配，以及正常的分配。如果在約13%之上存在任何結構性的超額資本，我們就會回饋給股東。因此，我們會——以與平常相同的方式處理。

And thank you for the question on liability margin. Well, first, I think it's important to look at the composition of our portfolio as well and also link it back to what we saw in 2023. -- in 2023, we saw a rapid increase in terms of margins, which then came down gradually over time as there is quite strong competition.

也謝謝你關於負債端利差的問題。首先，我認為也必須看我們投資組合的構成，並把它連結回我們在2023年看到的情況。——在2023年，我們看到利差快速上升，之後隨著競爭相當激烈，利差隨時間逐步回落。

I think it's also important then to look at when I link it to our portfolio in terms of the percentage-wise split between savings accounts and current accounts, that also means that, as I mentioned before, that we expect the savings margins or margins on savings accounts to come back to a long-term level that we have seen before.

我認為同樣重要的是，當我把它連結到我們投資組合中儲蓄帳戶與活期帳戶的百分比分布時，這也意味著——如我先前提到的——我們預期儲蓄利差或儲蓄帳戶利差會回到我們過去所見的長期水準。

Ben Goy, DB.

Ben Goy，德意志銀行。

Two questions, please. The first on cost, it seems like you want good cost control and you are a bit ahead of your full year guidance. Just maybe you can comment a bit more on that, whether it was FX and how the benefits of the operations restructuring should help in the rest of the year. And then on deposit campaigns, obviously, you didn't do a big campaign. Should we generally expect bigger campaigns as it did in the past? Or should it be more below the radar, potentially cheaper micro containing type campaign.

兩個問題，謝謝。第一個關於成本：看起來你們希望良好控制成本，而且目前似乎略優於全年指引。也許你可以多評論一下，是否與匯率（FX）有關，以及營運重整的效益在今年剩餘時間將如何提供幫助。第二個關於存款活動：顯然你們沒有做大型活動。整體而言，我們是否應預期像過去那樣更大型的活動？還是會更低調、可能更便宜、偏向微型且更具針對性的活動？

All right. So on both of the questions. Look, -- what we have been able to do is that with the contained cost discipline but also scalability that I talked about in the presentation, we were able to largely offset the wage inflation. And therefore, we also allow ourselves to make investments. So in the end, what we want to do is to be able to further grow and diversify ourselves.

好的。針對這兩個問題。你看——我們能做到的是，透過受控的成本紀律，以及我在簡報中提到的可擴展性（scalability），我們得以在很大程度上抵消薪資通膨。因此，我們也讓自己有空間進行投資。最終，我們想做的是能夠進一步成長並使自身更多元化。

So the more we're able to use -- to have efficiencies coming from our scalability, both from digitalization and scalable taking off that we can then reuse to get better customer experience. by making investments in to broaden our products, as we talked about, and that will then support the long-term value and the driver of ROE.

因此，我們越能利用——來自可擴展性的效率（包括數位化以及可擴展性帶來的效益），就越能再投入以提升客戶體驗：透過投資來擴大我們的產品範圍，如我們所談到的，進而支持長期價值以及ROE的驅動因素。

And in that sense, we continue to confirm also the other that we have '26 and '27. But we do see, and that's what I mentioned on Page 5 of the presentation, continued improvements on that front. -- on front of scalability, and it gives us opportunity to play with the levers of investments versus costs. which is very helpful.

在這個意義上，我們也持續確認我們在’26與’27的其他目標。但我們確實看到——這也是我在簡報第5頁提到的——在這方面持續改善。——在可擴展性方面的改善，讓我們有機會在投資與成本之間運用槓桿，這非常有幫助。

But the outlook remains the same at this point in time. When we talk about campaigns, yes, it's mixing and matching. So in the end, we want to grow our customer base -- in the meantime, we want to, in the long term, balance loans with deposits. We've seen for a number of quarters that deposits were growing faster in a couple of quarters where loans are growing faster. And so we want to do that in a balanced way in the end.

但就目前而言，展望仍維持不變。談到活動（campaigns），是的，這是混搭。最終，我們希望擴大客戶基礎——同時，從長期來看，我們希望在貸款與存款之間取得平衡。我們看到在若干季度中，存款成長更快；也有幾個季度是貸款成長更快。因此，我們最終希望以平衡的方式來進行。

Our purpose is to get more primary relationships in because these people -- these clients will do multiples in terms of end products, but also in profitability and in stickiness with us. And therefore, we will tailor it as to how we can grow and develop our customer base while keeping an eye on our balance sheet. So that's a mixing and matching of both more micro campaigns and potentially more above the line campaign than we've seen in previous years.

我們的目標是引入更多主要往來關係（primary relationships），因為這些人——這些客戶——在最終產品數量、獲利能力以及與我們往來的黏著度方面都會呈現倍數效應。因此，我們會依照如何在兼顧資產負債表的前提下成長並發展客戶基礎來量身打造。也就是同時混搭更微型的活動，以及可能比過去幾年更多的「主流媒體投放」（above the line）活動。

Tarik El made, Bank of America.

Tarik El made，美國銀行。

Welcome from myself as well, Ida. I looking forward to talk more in the future. So I just want to first on volumes. I understand the uncertainty element that could reverse if things get better in Iran and the conflict. But what about if we have a more sustained higher energy prices, lower consumption and maybe higher inflation on your wholesale lending? If we see something more structural rather than the reversal uncertainty? Where do you -- which areas you see and what could be impact on your lending?

我也歡迎你，Ida。我期待未來能有更多交流。我首先想問的是量（volumes）。我理解不確定性因素若伊朗局勢與衝突好轉可能會逆轉。但如果能源價格更持續地維持高檔、消費下降、也許通膨更高，對你們的批發放款（wholesale lending）會如何？如果我們看到的是更結構性的情況，而不是不確定性逆轉，你們認為哪些領域會受到影響？對你們放款可能的影響是什麼？

And the second question is on the RTs that you're planning to do for the rest of the year, I think 15, 20 bps boost of capital. How do you -- how discussions with the ECB and how do you see the market evolving in this current uncertainty -- is that something you still see as on track in terms of delivery and pricing and also on what kind of loans you put there.

第二個問題是關於你們計畫在今年剩餘時間進行的RTs，我想大約能帶來15到20個基點的資本提升。你們——與ECB的討論進展如何？在目前這種不確定性下，你們如何看市場演變——在交付進度與定價方面是否仍如期？以及你們會把哪些類型的貸款放進去？

Yes. Thanks, Teri, for your questions, and I'll take the question on volumes and Edawilltake the question on SRT. So I think on volumes, look, the -- in retail, like I said, we have seen over the past six, seven years, different elements that impacted the macroeconomic volatility.

是的。謝謝你，Teri，提出這些問題。我來回答量的問題，Eda willtake 來回答SRT的問題。所以我認為在量方面，你看——在零售端，如我所說，過去六、七年我們看到不同因素影響宏觀經濟波動。

But again, most of our retail lending and predominantly mortgages is much more linked to unemployment rates and shortage of housing. And therefore, house at the war is how Sawaris that it's not directly impacting those macroeconomic indicators and therefore, we expect a continuation of demands for mortgages and depending on the pricing and we will, therefore, further grow that book.

但同樣地，我們大部分的零售放款，主要是房貸，更多是與失業率以及住房短缺相關。因此，房屋在戰爭是如何 Sawaris 的，並不會直接影響那些宏觀經濟指標；因此，我們預期房貸需求會延續，並且取決於定價，我們因此會進一步擴大該業務。

When it comes to Wholesale Banking, there we saw in the first quarter, if you annualize -- sorry, if you annualize the growth rate that we saw in the first quarter on lending -- in total, it was 8%. That is quite a bit higher than the 5% that we -- 4%, 5% we saw previously over the years. Sectors and wholesale banking that could be affected or sectors that are, one, linked to the oil price, ie, that have the oil price and energy price has quite an input factor on the cost base. You could think about the chemical sector or fertilizers or construction or transport and logistics, those are sectors that are typically impacted.

至於批發銀行（Wholesale Banking），我們在第一季看到——如果你把第一季放款成長率年化——抱歉，如果你把第一季看到的放款成長率年化——總體是8%。這比我們——過去幾年看到的4%、5%高出不少。可能受影響的產業或批發銀行中的領域，包括：第一，與油價相關者，也就是油價與能源價格在成本結構中占相當重要投入的產業。你可以想到化工、肥料、建築、運輸與物流等，這些通常是受影響的產業。

And then the question for those companies is are they able to pass on those energy prices? The second element that you could see is that Asia, which is even more dependent, I would say, on the Middle East state-farm in terms of getting their oil in, if that is impacting their production levels and therefore, it also impact the delivery of supply chain to a number of other companies in the world, including the U.S. and Europe.

接著，對那些公司而言，問題在於它們是否能夠將這些能源價格轉嫁出去？你可能看到的第二個面向是，亞洲在進口石油方面，我會說對中東國營石油供應的依賴程度更高；如果這影響到它們的生產水準，進而也會影響到供應鏈對全球其他許多公司（包括美國與歐洲）的交付。

So those would be the main macroeconomic impacts. So far, and we are watching that closely. Clearly, a number of the companies that we talk to are much more flexible than they were a number of years ago because they have been dealing with newer Ukraine and corona. So there are more used to changing in terms of uncertainty. So far, we don't see so much in our book.

因此，這些將是主要的總體經濟影響。截至目前，我們正密切觀察。很明顯地，我們接觸的許多公司比幾年前更具彈性，因為它們一直在應對烏克蘭與新冠疫情等事件，所以更習慣在不確定性下做出調整。到目前為止，我們在自身的投資組合中並沒有看到太多影響。

You saw the risk costs that are below through the cycle average. And it also includes an overlay -- so the risk costs are still quite benign. And that's just a matter of waiting and looking and helping our customers. But it's too close to see what is really happening. We just need to stay close to the clients, especially in the sectors we use outlined.

你看到的風險成本低於景氣循環平均水準，且其中也包含一個疊加調整（overlay）——因此風險成本仍相當溫和。這只是等待、觀察並協助客戶的問題。但現在要看清楚實際正在發生什麼仍為時過早。我們只需要與客戶保持緊密聯繫，特別是在我們所概述的那些產業。

And on SRT. SRT is are an important tool in our toolbox to ensure capital efficiency and also optimize our capital position. As you know, in November last year, we announced the successful completion of our first 2 SRTs in Wholesale Banking, which provided a core equity Tier 1 relief of 12 basis points. We aim to continue using SRTs across wholesale as well as Retail Banking portfolios in the coming years.

至於SRT。SRT是我們工具箱中的重要工具，用以確保資本效率並優化我們的資本部位。如各位所知，去年11月我們宣布成功完成批發銀行（Wholesale Banking）領域的前兩筆SRT，帶來普通股權第一級資本（CET1）減壓12個基點。我們的目標是在未來幾年持續在批發銀行以及零售銀行（Retail Banking）投資組合中運用SRT。

And we have previously also said that we expect to do additional capital reliefs in 2026 or between 15 to 20 basis points and that still remains the plan. We have a very good and constructive dialogue with ECB. So I don't see any negative trends there at all or hesitations from their side. And it's also important to say we are kind of in the early phase of doing SRTs and therefore, are not an outlier in any way.

我們先前也提到，預期在2026年額外取得資本減壓約15到20個基點，這仍是目前的計畫。我們與歐洲央行（ECB）之間有非常良好且具建設性的對話，因此我完全沒有看到任何負面趨勢或他們方面的猶豫。此外也很重要的一點是，我們仍處於推動SRT的早期階段，因此在任何方面都不算是異類。

Shrey Srivastava, Citi.

Shrey Srivastava，花旗（Citi）。

Apologies if it's been touched on already. I just joined. But if you look at your 2026 commercial NII guide, it's been uplifted By about EUR200 million if you take the midpoint, if you compare that against the gross replicating income uplift on slide 27, it's about EUR600 million. So therefore, you're guiding to an implied past sort of close to 70% in 2026, if I'm not mistaken. Can you just explain what's driving that, what key markets and what opportunities do you see?

如果之前已經提到過，先說聲抱歉，我剛加入。但如果看你們2026年商業NII（淨利息收入）的指引，若以中位數計算，相較之前上調了約2億歐元；若與第27頁投影片上的總複製收入（gross replicating income）上調約6億歐元相比，因此你們等於在指引中隱含了2026年接近70%的傳導率（pass-through），如果我沒弄錯的話。能否說明是什麼在驅動這點、主要市場在哪裡，以及你們看到哪些機會？

Okay. Ida?

好的。Ida？

Shri, and nice to speaking to you again. As you rightly say that we saw a strong momentum on the commercial NII. It was much better than expected than what we had guided for before. I think there are mainly four factors impacting this. We had a particularly strong lending growth, good deposit growth also in the first quarter in spite of the seasonal outflows that you always see in the first quarter, we see the positive impact of the hedging tailwinds, as you saw already from the second half of last year, really showing an impact also this quarter and then lower deposits costs related to promotional campaigns. When you look at slide 27, it is important to say that that's more of a visualization of where -- what we see in terms of replication development driven by a specific forward curve.

Shri，很高興再次和你通話。正如你所說，我們看到商業NII有很強的動能，表現遠優於我們先前指引的預期。我認為主要有四個因素在影響：第一季放款成長特別強勁；儘管第一季通常會出現季節性資金流出，我們的存款成長仍然良好；我們看到避險帶來的順風效應（hedging tailwinds）——如你已從去年下半年看到的——在本季也確實開始顯現影響；以及與促銷活動相關的存款成本較低。至於第27頁投影片，重要的是要說明，那更像是將我們在特定遠期利率曲線（forward curve）驅動下所看到的複製（replication）發展做一個視覺化呈現。

So what we're saying there is that, yes, you will see a positive impact given the interest rates environments coming into play, but we're also then saying that be in the mid -- we expect to be in the midrange on liabilities margins on between 100 basis points and 110 basis points this year and could potentially given the interest rate path that we're seeing today be slightly above 110 basis points in the two coming years.

因此我們在那裡要表達的是：是的，在目前利率環境下你會看到正面影響，但同時我們也表示，今年負債端利差（liabilities margins）預期落在100到110個基點的中間區間；而依照我們今天看到的利率路徑，未來兩年可能會略高於110個基點。

But we also expect, given the portfolio mix that we have to see that trending down to more normalized level over time as we also know that there is strong competition also on the savings side, which we also saw in 2023.

但我們也預期，考量我們的投資組合結構（portfolio mix），隨時間推移這將回落至較正常化的水準；同時我們也知道，儲蓄端競爭相當激烈，這在2023年我們也已經看到。

Matthew Flow, Mediobanca.

Matthew Flow，Mediobanca。

More questions on liability margin, I'm afraid. So I guess, firstly, I was just hoping to understand a bit better whereabouts on the curve, the movements were that benefited the liability margin this quarter. I mean, interest rates only really moved through March. So only for the last month of the quarter. So just trying to understand, was it 3 months, 6 months, 12 months that really drove that 5 basis points benefit we haven't seen in the past, presumably it would take too long for the longer end to be benefiting the margin that much.

恐怕又是關於負債端利差的問題。首先，我希望能更清楚了解，本季究竟是利率曲線上哪一段的變動讓負債端利差受益。我的意思是，利率其實主要是在3月才真正出現變動，也就是本季最後一個月。所以我想了解，是3個月、6個月、12個月的那一段驅動了這5個基點的受益？我們過去沒看到這種情況；推測較長端要對利差產生這麼大的助益，應該需要更久的時間。

And then a related question is just in terms of the change in guidance from the around 100 basis points previously given -- I mean, if you're guiding for that at the end of January, start of February, to have a 4 basis points or 5 basis points upward surprise in the first quarter implies a very high exit rate in terms of the liability margin for March in order to bring that average up. So any comment there? Where -- is it right to think that the March liability margin would have been trending some way higher even than that 104 basis points average for the quarter?

接著一個相關問題是，關於指引從先前給的約100個基點上調——我的意思是，如果你們在1月底、2月初給出那樣的指引，而第一季就出現4到5個基點的上行驚喜，這意味著3月的負債端利差退出水準（exit rate）必須非常高，才能把平均值拉上來。對此有何評論？是否可以合理推論，3月的負債端利差走勢會明顯高於本季平均的104個基點？

All right, Ed. It's going to be a woman show on moving show. Thank you.

好的，Ed。這將會是一場「女性獨挑大樑」的演出。謝謝。

Thank you, Steven. So Well, if I start with -- there's not a specific part of the curve. I think you need -- when looking at the numbers and comparing it to what we talked about in the first quarter, you need to keep in mind that we also saw a gradual increase the December curve. So that needs to be taken into account.

謝謝你，Steven。那麼，如果我先從——其實並沒有曲線上的某一個特定區段。我認為在看這些數字並與我們第一季所談的內容比較時，你需要記住，我們也看到12月的曲線是逐步上升的，因此這也需要納入考量。

So there's not 1 point in time that we're looking at here, but a gradual increase. In addition to that, you, of course, already saw the positive developments on the hedging tailwinds coming from the second half of last year moving into the first half, which is then also then positive in terms of the outlook for the liability margins. Then the second part of yes. The second part of the question was, sorry, I've forgot.

所以我們看的不是某一個時間點，而是一個逐步上升的過程。除此之外，你當然也已經看到避險順風效應自去年下半年延續到上半年，這也對負債端利差的展望帶來正面影響。然後第二部分，是的——第二部分的問題是，抱歉，我忘了。

Could I just come back to SP1 Can you reiterate the second question, Matt, the change in guidance.

我可以回到SP1嗎？Matt，你能再重述一下第二個問題，也就是指引的變化嗎？

So there's two things. One, I just wanted to come back to the point that we were already seeing a benefit from the replicating tailwind last year because I thought the guidance had been -- well, that was true at the long end, not to expect an overall improvement to the replicating tailwind to be swinging positive until later on in 2026.

有兩點。第一，我想回到你提到我們去年就已經看到複製（replicating）順風帶來的好處，因為我原本以為指引是——嗯，那在長端確實如此——整體複製順風要轉為正面、帶動改善，應該要到2026年稍晚才會發生。

But was it an overall replicating benefit we were already seeing last year? Or is it only at the longer end. And then -- the other part of my original question was whether the exit rate for the liability margin in March was a lot higher than 104 basis points in order to bring the average for the full first quarter up to 104 basis points.

但我們去年看到的是整體的複製收益嗎？還是只出現在較長端？另外——我原本問題的另一部分是，為了讓第一季全季平均負債端利差達到104個基點，3月的退出水準是否必須遠高於104個基點？

Ida, will answer this.

Ida會回答這個。

Yes. So I think what's important to keep in mind here is that we have lower campaign costs this quarter as well compared to previous quarters. And particularly, if you also look at the first quarter last year where we have larger costs related to campaigns. And then in addition to that, you're right in terms of your point on the shorter end.

是的。我認為這裡需要記住的一點是，本季我們的活動（campaign）成本也比前幾季更低。特別是如果你也看第一季去年，我們有較多與活動相關的成本。此外，關於你提到短端的觀點，你說得沒錯。

Namita Samtani, Barclays.

Namita Samtani，巴克萊（Barclays）。

My first one, do you think the cost/income target of around 52 in 2027, just based on your revenue and cost target is ambitious enough given there are 23 other European banks targeting a lower cost income between 2026 to 2028. I'm just trying to understand the main pillars stopping ING from getting to a lower cost income than 52%.

第一個問題，你是否認為2027年成本／收入比（cost/income）約52%的目標，僅就你們的收入與成本目標來看，已經足夠有企圖心？因為有另外23家歐洲銀行在2026到2028年期間，目標是更低的成本收入比。我想了解，阻礙ING把成本收入比降到低於52%的主要支柱（pillars）是什麼？

And then secondly, just on what you would characterize growth markets in your Excel file, particularly in retail, I noticed the loan-to-deposit ratio over the past four years has come down by about 10 percentage points on the 5%. So I was just wondering why you not able to grow lending as fast as deposits? And what's the strategy here? Because I would expect deposit profitability in the subcategory to not be as good as it could be in other regions?

第二個問題，關於你們在Excel檔中所稱的成長市場（growth markets），特別是在零售端，我注意到過去四年貸存比（loan-to-deposit ratio）下降了大約10個百分點，降到約5%。我想問，為什麼你們的放款成長無法跟上存款成長？這裡的策略是什麼？因為我會預期，在該子分類中，存款的獲利能力可能不如其他地區那麼好？

Yeah. Thank you, Namita. I think that if you look at cost-income targets. Again, the implied is 52%. I think what we're driving for is on the 1 hand, operational efficiencies in our existing business. The main development for ING to drive value is to grow and diversify.

是的。謝謝你，Namita。我認為如果你看成本收入比目標，再次，隱含的是52%。我想我們努力的方向，一方面是在既有業務中提升營運效率。對ING而言，推動價值的主要發展是成長並多元化。

And as I said, we are a bank that makes about 80% of its revenue based on interest rates or linked to that, whereas on deposits or lending, which is good. That's also our Zipcode i.e., where we came from. -- but we also have the opportunity to do a lot more with our customers.

而且如我所說，我們是一家約80%營收來自利率或與利率連動的銀行，無論是存款或放款，這很好。那也是我們的Zipcode，也就是我們的出身之地。——但我們也有機會在客戶身上做得更多。

You see that we grow our fees very well in all kinds of directions and the interaction we have with our clients in that regard and more people who trade with us, more people who use the app, more people who do payments with us, not more people who close insurance contracts to us as a distributor.

你可以看到我們在各個方向的手續費成長都很好，以及我們在這方面與客戶的互動：更多人與我們交易、更多人使用App、更多人用我們做支付，而不是更多人透過我們這個分銷商去簽保險合約。

More people who do financial market transactions with us and -- you see this also rising to league tables in the capital markets, for example. At the same time, because we're also growing lending in various aspects, also that part of the P&L is growing, but the goal is to diversify. And so what we will largely save in terms of our operational efficiencies.

更多人與我們進行金融市場交易——例如，你也看到我們在資本市場的排行榜上名次上升。同時，因為我們也在各方面擴大放款，損益表中的那部分也在成長，但目標是多元化。因此，我們在營運效率上大幅節省下來的部分。

We are investing in broadening and deepening our client relationships. that is helping in the end, that's what we're driving towards the ROE. So that ROE, we say, will be 14% this year, more than 50% RTE in 2027. And we continue to drive and focus on ROTE growth. And implicitly, that will then also have a cost income decrease as a consequence. But the main driver is consistent RDE at scale.

我們會投資於拓寬並深化客戶關係。最終這會帶來幫助，這也是我們推動ROE的方向。所以我們說今年ROE會是14%，2027年ROTE超過50%。我們會持續推動並聚焦ROTE成長。隱含地，這也會使成本收入比隨之下降。但主要驅動因素是在規模化下持續一致的RDE。

In terms of the loan-to-deposit ratio, I believe the line was breaking up a little bit. but I believe you said a low loan-to-deposit ratio in Poland. Yes, that is -- every market works differently. -- quite a bit of stimulus in terms of investments comes there directly through the government.

關於貸存比，我相信剛剛線路有點斷斷續續。但我想你說的是波蘭的貸存比較低。是的——每個市場的運作方式都不同。——在那裡，投資方面相當多的刺激是由政府直接提供的。

So there you see -- it's the public spending that is increasing, but not necessarily the private spending. And therefore, you see throughout all the banks at the loan-to-deposit ratio there are significantly below 100 million -- and of course, we have been very successful in Poland, growing over the past 20 years to become a top 3 bank there or we are continuing to do so. But there is a dislocation, if you will, between the growth and lending and deposits in that particular market. That is correct.

所以你看到——增加的是公共支出，但不一定是民間支出。因此，你會看到所有銀行在那裡的貸存比都顯著低於1億——當然，我們在波蘭非常成功，過去20年成長成為當地前三大銀行之一，或我們仍在持續朝此邁進。但在那個特定市場，若你願意這麼說，放款與存款的成長之間存在錯位。這是正確的。

I just meant the growth market. It's like a category and in your fold, but you still answered my questions, thanks very much.

我只是指成長市場。它像是一個類別，在你們的範疇內，但你仍然回答了我的問題，非常感謝。

All right. So I said that is correct, by the way. So all these dynamics are in the growth markets. which are mostly emerging markets, whereby if you then look at also the lending that is being done to households to date compared to mature markets compared to total GDP is significantly lower and is going step by step to higher levels, but it takes time. So the dynamics in those markets are different. That is correct.

好的。我順便說，這是正確的。所以這些動態都發生在成長市場，這些多半是新興市場；如果你再看截至目前對家庭的放款，相較成熟市場、占總GDP的比重明顯較低，並且會一步一步提高到更高水準，但需要時間。因此，這些市場的動態不同。這是正確的。

Farquhar Murray, Autonomous.

Farquhar Murray，Autonomous。

Just two questions, if I may. Firstly, as you say the rates curve, that profit very volatile, and there are quite a range of possible scenarios that could play out this year. So my question there is how are you merging around that range of uncertainty and whether you've done anything specifically to adjust for it, and that would be both in terms of positioning within the replication portfolio and perhaps also competitively where it feels made the leaving room for any wrong campaigns this year.

如果可以的話，我有兩個問題。第一，正如你所說，利率曲線使得利潤非常波動，今年可能出現的情境範圍相當大。所以我的問題是，你們如何在這個不確定性範圍內進行管理？以及你們是否做了任何特別調整來因應？這可能包括在複製投資組合中的部位配置，或在競爭層面上——感覺今年是否為任何可能出錯的行銷活動留了空間。

And then secondly, briefly coming back on the mortgage floor change. Should I take your comments are suggesting this will be simply wrapped into the kind of exercise at 1Q '27, so probably be 1 and done and then maybe even slightly lumpy.

第二，簡短回到房貸下限（mortgage floor）變更。是否可以把你的評論理解為：這將會被簡單地納入到2027年第一季的那類作業中，因此可能是一次性處理（1 and done），然後也許會稍微不平滑。

All right. On the mortgage floor, I will respond and then on the curve and the campaigns. Ida will respond. I think that when we talk about the mortgage floor, what I meant to say was that there's all kinds of movements happening. -- whether it is more updates or SRTs or changes in regulation.

好的。關於房貸下限，我先回應，然後關於曲線與行銷活動，Ida會回應。我認為當我們談到房貸下限時，我想表達的是有各種變動正在發生——不論是更多更新、或SRTs、或監管變更。

And we just taken into account in our semiannual update. In this case by the end of October, whereby we say, okay, we look at what is our structural capital level.

而我們已在半年度更新中把這些納入考量。本次是在10月底之前，我們會說，好，我們看我們的結構性資本水準是多少。

And if it's structurally above 13%, then we'll pay it back because what we need below that, we will need for growth. But if there is a structural excess above 13%, then we will pay back and we lump what we now see in also the mortgage floor in the Netherlands into account in that whole decision. Ida?

如果結構性地高於13%，那我們就會回饋（pay it back），因為低於那個水準我們需要用於成長。但如果在13%之上有結構性超額，那我們就會回饋；而我們現在在荷蘭也看到的房貸下限影響，也會被納入整體決策考量。Ida？

Thank you. In terms of looking at the replication, I think it's important to just say that -- this is primarily a risk management tool in order for us to match the different parts of the balance sheet rather than trying to make smart moves in the short term. And that's also why -- you see that we continuously see a good uptick in terms of replication income from the second half of last year into this year and also expect to see it going forward.

謝謝。就複製（replication）的檢視而言，我認為重要的是先說明——這主要是一個風險管理工具，用來讓我們匹配資產負債表的不同部分，而不是試圖在短期內做出聰明的操作。也因此——你會看到我們從去年下半年到今年，複製收益持續有不錯的上升，我們也預期未來會持續。

So we haven't changed any strategy are not making shift transitions purely based on the volatility -- and I think overall, we have a very low risk appetite when it comes to interest rate risk in the bank and are therefore managing interest rates overall in a prudent and strong way.

因此，我們沒有改變任何策略，也不會僅因波動就做部位的大幅轉換——而且整體而言，對於銀行的利率風險我們的風險偏好非常低，因此我們以審慎且穩健的方式管理整體利率風險。

Thank you. That's all the time we have for questions. I will now hand it back to Steven and, the closing remarks.

謝謝。提問時間就到這裡。我現在把時間交還給Steven，請他做結語。

All right. Thank you very much again for your time, your attention, your good questions. I'm sure you will have a very busy day given all the banks that are coming out with their figures today. So all the best with that. And I'm also very happy that you have now spoken to Ida as our new CFO and to Andrea as a head of risk, and then we'll continue on the path in the next quarter and see you soon. Thank you.

好的。再次非常感謝各位的時間、關注，以及很好的問題。我相信今天你們會非常忙，因為今天有很多銀行都要公布數字。祝各位一切順利。我也很高興你們現在已經與我們的新CFO Ida，以及風險主管Andrea對話；接下來我們會在下一季持續走在這條路上，很快再見。謝謝。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。各位女士、先生，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位參與。您現在可以掛線。