ING Groep N.V. (ING) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. This is Laura, welcoming you to ING's 2Q 2026 conference call. Before handing this conference call over to Steven van Rijswijk, Chief Executive Officer of ING Group, let me first say that today's comments may include forward-looking statements. Such as statements regarding future developments in our business, expectations for our future financial performance, and any statement not involving a historical fact. Actual results may differ materially from those projected in any forward-looking statement.

早安。我是 Laura，歡迎各位參加 ING 2026 年第二季電話會議。在把本次電話會議交給 ING 集團執行長 Steven van Rijswijk 之前，我先說明，今天的發言可能包含前瞻性陳述。例如，關於我們業務未來發展、對未來財務表現的預期，以及任何不涉及歷史事實的陳述。實際結果可能與任何前瞻性陳述所預測者有重大差異。

A discussion of factors that may cause actual results to differ from those in any forward-looking statement is contained in our public filings, including our most recent annual report on Form 20-F filed with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission and our earnings press release as posted on our website today. Furthermore, nothing in today's comments constitutes an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy any securities. Good morning, Steven, over to you.

可能導致實際結果與任何前瞻性陳述所述不同的因素之討論，載於我們的公開申報文件中，包括我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的 Form 20-F 年度報告，以及我們今天在網站上發布的盈餘新聞稿。此外，今天的發言內容均不構成出售任何證券之要約，亦不構成購買任何證券之要約邀請。早安，Steven，交給你了。

Thank you very much. Good morning, and welcome to our results call for the second quarter of 2026. Thank you for joining us today. I hope that you're all doing well. I'm joined by our CFO, Ida Lerner; and by our new CRO, Andrea Cesaroni.

非常感謝。早安，歡迎各位參加我們 2026 年第二季的業績電話會議。感謝各位今天加入。希望大家一切都好。今天與我一同出席的有我們的財務長 Ida Lerner，以及我們的新任風險長（CRO）Andrea Cesaroni。

Through our Growing the difference strategy, we have accelerated growth in both our customer base and customer balances and our excellent second-quarter results demonstrate that this commercial performance is translating into improved operating leverage and sustainable earnings growth. And today, I will discuss the drivers behind these results, the value we continue to create through the consistent execution of our strategy, and how our strong progress so far this year has enabled us to further upgrade our outlook for 2026 and 2027.

透過我們的「Growing the difference」策略，我們在客戶基礎與客戶餘額兩方面都加速成長，而我們優異的第二季業績顯示，這樣的商業表現正轉化為更佳的營運槓桿與可持續的獲利成長。今天我將說明推動這些成果的因素、我們透過持續一致地執行策略所創造的價值，以及今年迄今的強勁進展如何使我們得以進一步上調 2026 與 2027 年的展望。

After that, Ida will walk you through the quarterly financials. And at the end of the call, we will be happy to take your questions. And with that, let's start with slide 2. We are pleased by the continued strong customer activity that we see across the franchise as well as by the clear upward momentum in our profitability. And what is particularly encouraging is that these are not separate developments. They are part of the same growth strategy. And we continue to attract more customers and more customers choose us as their primary bank, allowing us to deepen the relationships with more products and higher volumes.

接著，Ida 將帶各位檢視本季財務數據。在電話會議結尾，我們也很樂意回答各位的問題。那麼，我們從投影片 2 開始。我們很高興看到整個集團持續強勁的客戶活動，以及獲利能力明顯向上的動能。特別令人鼓舞的是，這些並非各自獨立的發展。它們同屬於同一套成長策略的一部分。我們持續吸引更多客戶，且有更多客戶選擇我們作為其主要往來銀行，使我們能以更多產品與更高交易量深化關係。

And we increasingly do so through a scalable operating model, and this translates into further income growth and diversification, positive operating [jaws], and higher profitability. And the self-reinforcing cycle is the core engine of our strategy and allows us to grow our business, generate capital, and offer attractive shareholder returns all at the same time.

而且我們愈來愈多地透過可擴展的營運模式來達成，這也轉化為進一步的收入成長與多元化、正向的營運 [jaws]，以及更高的獲利能力。這種自我強化的循環是我們策略的核心引擎，使我們能同時擴大業務、產生資本，並提供具吸引力的股東報酬。

And looking at the second quarter, we've added 377,000 mobile primary customers, bringing our growth in the last 12 months to over 1 million, ahead of the target set at our Capital Markets Day in June 2024. And let me remind you that mobile primary customer growth is not just about acquiring new customers, Mobile primary customer growth indicates that we are deepening the role that ING plays in their financial lives. And this is economically important and a fundamental strength of the ING brand because primary relationships are the foundation for deeper engagement, more cross-selling, increasing balances, and ultimately, higher income generation per customer.

回到第二季，我們新增了 377,000 名行動主要客戶，使過去 12 個月的成長超過 100 萬人，優於我們在 2024 年 6 月資本市場日所設定的目標。我也提醒各位，行動主要客戶的成長不僅僅是取得新客戶；行動主要客戶的成長代表我們正在加深 ING 在其金融生活中的角色。這在經濟上非常重要，也是 ING 品牌的根本優勢，因為主要往來關係是更深度互動、更多交叉銷售、餘額提升，並最終提高每位客戶收入創造的基礎。

And this is what we clearly see reflected here on this slide as well. Loan growth again strong at an annualized pace of more than 8% with continued demand from customers across our markets. We also saw strong inflow of deposits from our customers at an annualized pace of 8.5%, supported by successful deposit gathering campaigns aimed at both existing and new-to-bank customers.

這一點也清楚反映在本頁投影片上。放款成長再次強勁，年化增速超過 8%，各市場客戶需求持續。我們也看到客戶存款強勁流入，年化增速達 8.5%，主要受惠於成功的存款募集活動，對象涵蓋既有客戶與新開戶客戶。

Fee income that grew by 14% year on year, benefiting from our growing customer base and from increased customer engagement, both in retail banking and in wholesale banking. And finally, our sustainable volume mobilized has increased 28% in the first half of '26 as we remain committed to supporting our clients in their sustainable transitions. And overall, this continued momentum in customer activity has translated into income growth of more than 5% over the past 12 months, while headcount was reduced by more than 1% and cost growth remained well contained at around 2%.

手續費收入年增 14%，受惠於客戶基礎擴大與客戶互動提升，涵蓋零售銀行與批發銀行。最後，在我們持續致力於支持客戶永續轉型之下，2026 年上半年我們所動員的永續量增加了 28%。整體而言，客戶活動的持續動能在過去 12 個月帶動收入成長超過 5%；同時人力編制減少逾 1%，成本成長也維持在約 2% 的良好控制範圍內。

And these positive operating jaws of more than 3 percentage points clearly demonstrate how we are increasingly enabling scalable growth. And as a result of that, the ROTE, the return on tangible equity, reached 17% in the second quarter, while our four-quarter rolling ROTE improved by 1.5 percentage points year on year.

這些超過 3 個百分點的正向營運 jaws，清楚展現我們正日益實現可擴展的成長。因此，第二季 ROTE（有形股東權益報酬率）達到 17%，而我們四季滾動 ROTE 年增改善 1.5 個百分點。

Now let me move to the next slide where we will take a closer look at how we are progressing against some of these strategic priorities. And we move to slide 3. And this slide shows how we have doubled our growth since launching our Growing the difference strategy starting at the Capital Markets Day, mid-2024. And besides clearly illustrating the accelerated growth in customer balances, we see even stronger growth in income diversification.

接下來我到下一頁投影片，更仔細看看我們在部分策略重點上的進展。我們來到投影片 3。本頁顯示，自 2024 年年中資本市場日啟動「Growing the difference」策略以來，我們的成長已加倍。除了清楚呈現客戶餘額的加速成長之外，我們也看到收入多元化的成長更為強勁。

First, turning to loan book. As a leading European mortgage bank, we continue helping people financing their homes, and this has been a strong driver for overall lending growth, which is furthermore supported by diversified growth across business banking, consumer lending, and wholesale banking. And we're growing the book where we see attractive risk-adjusted opportunities while remaining disciplined on capital consumption. And this allows us to support our customers, capture profitable organic growth, and generate attractive return.

首先看放款組合。作為歐洲領先的房貸銀行，我們持續協助民眾為其住宅融資，這一直是整體放款成長的重要驅動力；此外，企業銀行、消費金融與批發銀行的多元成長也提供支撐。我們在看到具吸引力的風險調整後機會之處擴大放款，同時在資本耗用上維持紀律。這使我們能支持客戶、掌握具獲利性的有機成長，並創造具吸引力的報酬。

Our deposit franchise remains a fundamental strength and cornerstone of ING. Our deposit book is large. It's highly granular, predominantly insured, and ever growing. And it provides stable and diversified funding, while the combination of accelerated growth in deposits and strong net inflows in assets under management clearly shows that we are capturing a larger share of our customers' overall financial assets. And this interplay of franchise strength, customer loyalty, and continued growth provides a strong foundation for continued bank expansion.

我們的存款業務仍是 ING 的根本優勢與核心支柱。我們的存款規模龐大。其結構高度分散、以受保為主，且持續成長。它提供穩定且多元的資金來源；同時，存款加速成長與受託管理資產（AUM）強勁淨流入的結合，清楚顯示我們正在取得客戶整體金融資產中更高的占比。這種特許經營優勢、客戶忠誠度與持續成長的相互作用，為銀行持續擴張提供了堅實基礎。

And I already mentioned the strong net inflows in assets under management and our success in investment products is a key contributor to accelerated growth in overall fee income as well. In fee income, we see improved momentum across all our businesses, benefiting from a growing customer base, broadening of the product offerings, and from increased customer activity across both retail and wholesale. In short, our strategy is delivering accelerated and value-accretive growth across our franchise. And with that, we move to slide 4.

我先前已提到受託管理資產的強勁淨流入，而我們在投資產品上的成功，也是整體手續費收入加速成長的關鍵貢獻因素。在手續費收入方面，我們看到各項業務動能提升，受惠於客戶基礎擴大、產品供給更為多元，以及零售與批發兩端客戶活動增加。簡而言之，我們的策略正在全體業務版圖中帶來加速且增值的成長。接著我們進入投影片 4。

And now on the previous, that was slide 3, you have seen how our growth strategy has successfully translated into results. But this slide, slide 4, there, we highlight a few examples of consistent strategy execution across our business segments, which will further drive commercial growth in the future. In private individuals, start with that first, we focus on accelerating growth by increasing impact and value for our customers, for example, through agentic mortgages, which is already live in production.

現在，前一頁也就是投影片 3，各位已看到我們的成長策略如何成功轉化為成果。而在這一頁、投影片 4，我們將重點呈現幾個在各業務分部中持續一致執行策略的例子，這些將在未來進一步推動商業成長。以個人金融（private individuals）為例，先從這部分開始，我們聚焦於透過提升對客戶的影響力與價值來加速成長，例如 agentic mortgages，目前已在正式環境上線運作。

Agentic mortgages are a prime example of how our AI capabilities allow us to achieve true scalable growth, and we use AI to significantly reduce the time to yes, time to approval, and we service a greater number of customers without adding additional FTEs.

代理式房貸是我們 AI 能力如何讓我們實現真正可擴展成長的最佳例證；我們運用 AI 大幅縮短同意時間、核准時間，並在不增加額外 FTE（全職人力）的情況下服務更多客戶。

On the commercial side, we are rolling out a new global subscriptions model designed to make daily banking easier and to deliver greater value for customers and this move marks an important step in our strategy to evolve from a product-based banking towards more relationship-based propositions, combining banking, protection, lifestyle benefits within one single offering. And soon, we will start to roll out conversational banking in our mobile app, which is a personal assistant with agentic AI capabilities, providing a significantly enhanced digital experience to our customers.

在商業端，我們正推出全新的全球訂閱制模式，旨在讓日常銀行服務更便利，並為客戶帶來更高價值；此舉標誌著我們策略中的重要一步，將從以產品為導向的銀行模式，轉向更以關係為基礎的主張，把銀行服務、保障與生活型福利整合在單一方案中。此外，我們很快也將在行動 App 中推出對話式銀行服務，這是一位具備代理式 AI 能力的個人助理，將為客戶帶來顯著升級的數位體驗。

In summary, we continue to make banking simple and frictionless for our customers on the one hand and on the other hand, delivering increasing value and impact in accelerating our growth. Building scale in more market segments and playing a bigger role in the overall economy was another key theme of our strategy. And in business banking, talking about building scale, we are deploying our high-return model in other countries as well.

總結而言，一方面我們持續為客戶打造簡單、無摩擦的銀行體驗；另一方面，也透過提升價值與影響力來加速成長。在更多市場區隔建立規模、在整體經濟中扮演更重要角色，也是我們策略的另一個關鍵主題。而在企業金融（Business Banking）方面，談到建立規模，我們也正在其他國家部署我們的高報酬模式。

We have launched Germany and Italy business banking. And early next year, we will be launching in Spain. And we are also increasingly adding new capabilities to our offering. And over the past six months, we have seen a doubling of our net customer growth. Then Private Banking. We are building a third retail pillar based on the strong synergies with our other business segments. And we've launched our Private Banking proposition in Italy, providing tailored wealth management, investment strategies, and financial planning with a mix of digital tools and personal advisers.

我們已在德國與義大利推出企業金融服務。並且在明年初，我們將在西班牙推出。同時，我們也持續為我們的產品與服務增加新能力。在過去六個月，我們看到淨客戶成長翻倍。接著是私人銀行（Private Banking）。我們正建立第三個零售支柱，並以與其他業務板塊之間的強大協同效應為基礎。我們已在義大利推出私人銀行主張，結合數位工具與個人顧問，提供量身打造的財富管理、投資策略與財務規劃。

And we will soon follow a similar approach in Spain, where in addition, we have acquired a stake of approximately 40% in the Spanish -- leading Spanish wealth manager, Singular Bank, and Singular will continue to operate as an independent entity in the Spanish Private Banking market with a profit offering that -- a product offering that is complementary to the ING.

我們很快也將在西班牙採取類似作法；此外，我們已收購西班牙—領先的財富管理機構 Singular Bank 約 40% 的持股，而 Singular 將在西班牙私人銀行市場持續以獨立實體運作，並提供—一套與 ING 互補的獲利性產品／服務組合。

And together with Singular's management team, we will focus -- we will work on further commercial cooperation in identified opportunities for growth. And if we look ahead, Private Banking will be a key contributor to overall income diversification, and it's therefore very encouraging to see that a 30% year-on-year (sic – see slide 4, "34%") fee income growth was achieved in this segment.

我們也將與 Singular 的管理團隊一起聚焦—推動在已識別的成長機會上進一步的商業合作。展望未來，私人銀行將是整體收入多元化的關鍵貢獻者；因此，看到該板塊手續費收入年增 30%（原文如此—見投影片 4，「34%」）的成長表現，令人非常振奮。

And then Wholesale Banking, there, we've made strong progress in diversifying our income and increasing capital velocity. Wholesale Banking fees income keep increasing quarter over quarter and is now 11% ahead of the prior year, supported by a wide range of products and services. And furthermore, our focus on attracting customer deposits is paying off with a CAGR of almost 10% in the last two years.

接著是批發銀行（Wholesale Banking），我們在收入多元化與提升資本周轉速度方面取得了強勁進展。批發銀行的手續費收入季季成長，目前較去年同期高出 11%，並由廣泛的產品與服務所支撐。此外，我們聚焦吸收客戶存款的策略也正在奏效，過去兩年的年複合成長率（CAGR）接近 10%。

Now we stayed with Wholesale Banking a little bit. Let's move to slide 5, and there, I will zoom in on the progress that we made in capital optimization. And this slide, slide 5, shows how our disciplined RWA management accelerates the enhancement of our overall ROTE profile for the group. While our loan book expanded significantly year on year, our growth in risk-weighted assets has been limited.

我們再多談一下批發銀行。請看投影片 5，我將聚焦我們在資本最佳化方面取得的進展。投影片 5 顯示，我們嚴謹的風險加權資產（RWA）管理，如何加速提升集團整體的 ROTE 表現。雖然我們的放款組合年增幅度顯著，但風險加權資產的成長則受到控制。

The strong performance in RWA management is mainly driven by capital optimization measures in Wholesale Banking, where RWA consumption came down in absolute terms by EUR4.6 billion year on year despite growing its lending book and revenues.

RWA 管理的強勁表現主要來自批發銀行的資本最佳化措施；儘管其放款與營收成長，RWA 消耗仍在絕對值上年減 46 億歐元。

Wholesale Banking has managed down its RWA consumption through the increasing use of secondary loan sales, insurance, and overall client portfolio optimization as well as through SRTs, including a EUR1 billion RWA benefit from our first SRT transaction this year.

批發銀行透過提高次級貸款出售、保險安排與整體客戶投組最佳化的使用，以及透過 SRT（重大風險移轉）來降低 RWA 消耗；其中包含我們今年首筆 SRT 交易帶來的 10 億歐元 RWA 效益。

Again, at our Capital Markets Day in 2024, we announced our expectation to shift the capital allocation between retail and wholesale from [50-50] at that point to 55% for retail banking by the end of 2027. And since then, the combination of accelerated client activity in retail banking and disciplined RWA management in Wholesale Banking has enabled us to already exceed that target today, 18 months ahead of plan. Going forward, we will continue to optimize capital allocation to further enhance our overall ROTE profile.

再次回到我們在 2024 年資本市場日所宣布的預期：將零售與批發之間的資本配置，從當時的 [50-50] 轉為在 2027 年底零售銀行占比 55%。自那之後，零售銀行客戶活動加速，加上批發銀行嚴謹的 RWA 管理，使我們已在今天就超越該目標，較原計畫提前 18 個月達成。展望未來，我們將持續最佳化資本配置，以進一步提升整體 ROTE 表現。

Now we go to slide 6. And on that slide, we see the financial effect of consistently executing our Growing the difference strategy. Our ability to grow our customer base, deepen relationships with customers and diversify our income and while doing so in a scalable way is translating into positive operating leverage and higher profitability.

現在我們看投影片 6。在這張投影片上，我們可以看到持續執行「Growing the difference」策略所帶來的財務效果。我們擴大客戶基礎、深化客戶關係並多元化收入的能力，同時以可擴展的方式推進，正轉化為正向的營運槓桿與更高的獲利能力。

And we then deploy the capital we generate efficiently, investing in profitable growth in selective M&A and returning structurally excess capital to our shareholders. And as a result, we are increasingly converting our profitability growth into higher earnings per share with EPS increasing by 16% year on year.

接著，我們也有效率地運用所產生的資本，投資於具獲利性的成長、選擇性併購（M&A），並將結構性超額資本回饋給股東。因此，我們正愈來愈能把獲利成長轉化為更高的每股盈餘（EPS），EPS 年增 16%。

Over the past 12 months, we have delivered EUR6.7 billion of net profit, equivalent to 2 percentage points of CET1. And of this EUR6.7 billion, 50%, has been reserved for our regular dividend distributions. Around 10% has been used to fund profitable growth and about 40% the remainder has been allocated to additional distributions, selective M&A or has been reserved outside of CET1.

過去 12 個月，我們交出 67 億歐元的淨利，約相當於 CET1 的 2 個百分點。在這 67 億歐元中，50% 已預留作為例行股利分配。約 10% 用於支持具獲利性的成長，其餘約 40% 則配置於額外分配、選擇性併購，或保留在 CET1 之外。

And overall, this is a strong demonstration of increased capital generation and disciplined capital allocation. And as discussed on slide 7, where I will show how this results in highly attractive shareholder returns. On slide 7, in line with our distribution policy, we have consistently paid cash dividends, and we have been executing significant share buyback programs for several years. And together, this results in consistent and attractive total distribution per share. The share buyback program we announced in April is currently underway and is expected to be completed in October this year and looking ahead, we remain fully committed to strong capital discipline and strong shareholder returns.

整體而言，這有力展現了更強的資本創造能力與嚴謹的資本配置。如同投影片 7 所討論的，我將說明這如何帶來極具吸引力的股東報酬。在投影片 7，依循我們的分配政策，我們持續發放現金股利，並且多年來執行大規模庫藏股回購計畫。兩者合計，使每股總分配呈現穩定且具吸引力的水準。我們在 4 月宣布的庫藏股回購計畫目前正在進行中，預計於今年 10 月完成；展望未來，我們仍將全力維持強健的資本紀律與強勁的股東報酬。

We maintain our semi-annual rhythm of assessing the potential for additional distributions, and we will update you again with our third-quarter results. And now before handing over to Ida, let me conclude with slide 9.

我們維持每半年評估額外分配可能性的節奏，並將在第三季財報時再次向各位更新。在交棒給 Ida 之前，讓我以投影片 9 作結。

On slide 9, we show how our strong progress this year has enabled us to further upgrade our outlook for '26 and '27. We are well on track to add 1 million mobile primary customers per year. Our fee income growth is tracking well ahead of plan, and we expect to already reach the EUR5 billion mark in fees this year, one year ahead of our original plan. And for 2027, we upgrade our outlook to the range of EUR5.3 billion to EUR5.5 billion.

在投影片 9，我們展示今年的強勁進展如何使我們得以進一步上調對 2026 年與 2027 年的展望。我們正穩步達成每年新增 100 萬名行動端主要客戶的目標。我們的手續費收入成長明顯超前於原計畫，我們預期今年即可達到 50 億歐元的手續費里程碑，較原先計畫提前一年。而對 2027 年，我們將展望上調至 53 億至 55 億歐元的區間。

On the back of strong momentum both in commercial NII and fee income, we also increased our outlook for total outcome, where we now expect more than EUR24.5 billion in 2026 and more than EUR26 billion in 2027. While client activity and volumes were significantly stronger than previously expected, our operating expenses are tracking well in line with our full-year outlook, which is therefore reiterated, which ensures an even stronger operating leverage than previously planned.

在商業端淨利息收入（NII）與手續費收入的強勁動能帶動下，我們也上調了對總收入（total income）的展望：目前預期 2026 年將超過 245 億歐元，2027 年將超過 260 億歐元。雖然客戶活動與業務量顯著強於先前預期，我們的營運費用仍與全年展望大致一致，因此重申該展望，並確保營運槓桿將比先前規劃更為強勁。

Combined with the strong progress that we've made in enhancing our business mix, and ROTE profile, we're now upgrading our ROTE outlook by 1 percentage point for both years, now expecting an ROTE of more than 15% in 2026 and more than 16% in 2027. And through the consistent execution of our strategy, we are delivering a broad range of catalysts that will continue to support the upward path of our ROTE and EPS in the years to come.

結合我們在優化業務組合與ROTE表現方面所取得的強勁進展，我們現在將兩個年度的ROTE展望各上調1個百分點，現預期2026年的ROTE將超過15%，2027年將超過16%。並且透過持續落實我們的策略，我們正在提供廣泛的催化因素，將在未來數年持續支持我們的ROTE與EPS走升軌跡。

I will now hand over to Ida, who will take you through our quarterly results in more detail, starting with slide 11. Ida?

我現在把時間交給Ida，她將從第11頁開始，更詳細帶大家看我們的季度業績。Ida？

Thank you, Steven. It's my pleasure to walk you through the key drivers of our strong performance in the second quarter. On slide 11, we can see how the sustained growth momentum in commercial NII and fee income drove an increase in total income by 10% year on year. Commercial NII is supported by continued volume growth on both sides of the balance sheet by disciplined commercial pricing and by the prolonged hedging tailwind on our replication customer deposits.

謝謝你，Steven。我很高興帶大家回顧我們第二季強勁表現的關鍵驅動因素。在第11頁，我們可以看到商業淨利息收入（NII）與手續費收入的持續成長動能，帶動總收入年增10%。商業NII受惠於資產負債表兩端的持續量能成長、嚴謹的商業定價，以及我們複製客戶存款所帶來的延續性避險順風。

Fee income also continued its upward trend, benefiting from our growing customer base and increased customer activity, up 14% compared to the same quarter last year. All other income recovered from the heightened market volatility that affected the previous quarter and was furthermore supported by stronger trading income in Financial Markets. Overall, total income increased 8% quarter-on-quarter and 10% year-on-year, driven by stronger customer activity across the franchise.

手續費收入也延續上升趨勢，受惠於客戶基礎擴大與客戶活動增加，較去年同期成長14%。其他收入自前一季受市場波動加劇影響後回升，並且進一步受惠於金融市場（Financial Markets）較強的交易收入。整體而言，在全體業務線客戶活動更為活躍的帶動下，總收入季增8%、年增10%。

Let's take a closer look at the volume growth. Turning to slide 12. Here, we show the development of our customer balances. As you can see, we delivered another quarter of strong commercial growth. Net core lending increased by EUR15.2 billion. Retail banking grew its loan book by EUR12.1 billion. Demand for mortgages remained solid with strong production in the Netherlands, Germany, Italy, and Australia.

讓我們更仔細看看量能成長。請看第12頁。這裡展示我們客戶餘額的變化。如各位所見，我們又交出一季強勁的商業成長。核心淨放款增加152億歐元。零售銀行放款餘額增加121億歐元。房貸需求仍然穩健，荷蘭、德國、義大利與澳洲的承作量表現強勁。

Business lending also increased alongside growth in consumer lending. Wholesale Banking delivered EUR3 billion of net core lending growth as client demand for financing remained robust. On the liability side, customers have continued to entrust more of these savings with us as reflected in the net core deposit growth of EUR15.9 billion.

企業放款亦隨著消費者放款成長而增加。批發銀行（Wholesale Banking）核心淨放款成長30億歐元，因客戶融資需求仍然強勁。在負債端，客戶持續將更多儲蓄交由我們管理，反映在核心淨存款成長159億歐元。

Retail banking contributed EUR16.7 billion, supported by successful deposit gathering campaigns as well as seasonal inflows related to holiday allowance payments. We saw strong net inflows, particularly in Germany and in the Netherlands. Wholesale Banking deposits declined slightly. We continue to see positive momentum from new mandates in our payments and cash pooling business. However, this was offset by outflows from higher volatility deposit balances, particularly in financial markets. Now on to commercial NII on slide 13.

零售銀行貢獻167億歐元，受惠於成功的存款募集活動，以及與假期津貼發放相關的季節性流入。我們看到強勁的淨流入，尤其是在德國與荷蘭。批發銀行存款小幅下降。我們在支付與資金池（cash pooling）業務的新委任案持續帶來正向動能。然而，這被較高波動性的存款餘額流出所抵銷，尤其是在金融市場。接著看第13頁的商業NII。

Commercial NII grew by EUR114 million quarter-on-quarter and was 10.7% higher than last year. Lending NII rose by EUR16 million quarter-on-quarter, driven by 8% annualized growth in lending volumes. The lending margin decreased slightly, mainly as a result of growth in lower risk density loans. Liability NII increased by EUR97 million, supported by higher deposit volumes and a 3 basis points improvement in the liability margin. This higher liability margin is a reflection of the prolonged hedging tailwind on our replicated deposits.

商業NII季增1.14億歐元，較去年高出10.7%。放款NII季增1,600萬歐元，主要由放款量年化成長8%所帶動。放款利差小幅下降，主要是因低風險密度放款成長所致。負債NII增加9,700萬歐元，受惠於較高的存款量以及負債利差改善3個基點。較高的負債利差反映了我們複製存款所帶來的延續性避險順風。

The incremental benefit from higher replication income was partly offset by higher campaign-related deposit costs, which had been particularly low in the previous quarter. Looking ahead, on the back of a very strong first half of the year, we expect a higher level of commercial NII than previously guided for the full year. We now expect commercial NII for the full year to be between EUR16.8 billion and EUR17 billion. We have also slightly upgraded our 2026 liability margin outlook and now expect the full year average margin to be in the upper mid-range of 100 and 110 basis points. Turning to slide 14.

來自較高複製收益的增量效益，部分被與活動相關的存款成本上升所抵銷，而前一季該成本特別低。展望未來，在上半年表現非常強勁的基礎上，我們預期全年商業NII將高於先前指引。我們目前預期全年商業NII介於168億至170億歐元。我們也小幅上調2026年負債利差展望，現預期全年平均利差將落在100至110個基點區間的中上緣。接著看第14頁。

The development in fee income clearly reflects the appeal of our customer proposition and increased customer activity across the franchise. Total fee income grew by EUR42 million quarter-on-quarter and was up 14% year-on-year. In Retail Banking, our fee income rose 16% year-on-year, supported by growing customer base and improved cross-selling. Selling, [cross-selling], we see strong performance across a wide and expanding range of products and services.

手續費收入的發展清楚反映我們客戶主張的吸引力，以及全體業務線客戶活動的提升。總手續費收入季增4,200萬歐元，年增14%。在零售銀行，手續費收入年增16%，受惠於客戶基礎擴大與交叉銷售改善。在銷售、[交叉銷售]方面，我們在廣泛且持續擴大的產品與服務範圍內皆看到強勁表現。

Our investment products, in particular, continue to perform very well. Customers are increasingly using our services with an 8% rise in number of customers who hold an investment account with ING and with EUR21 billion of net flows over the past 12 months.

尤其是我們的投資產品，持續表現非常出色。客戶愈來愈多使用我們的服務：持有ING投資帳戶的客戶數增加8%，且過去12個月淨流入達210億歐元。

As Steven already mentioned, we are successfully capturing a larger share of our customers' overall financial assets, demonstrated by the combination of the EUR26 billion year-on-year net inflow in retail deposits and EUR21 billion net inflow in assets under management. In Wholesale Banking, fee income grew 11% year-on-year across several products, demonstrating its progress on further income diversification. For the full year, we expect to generate EUR5 billion in fee income, which is up EUR400 million year-on-year and implies that we will reach our EUR5 billion target one year ahead of plan.

如Steven先前提到，我們正成功取得客戶整體金融資產中更高的占比，這可由零售存款年增淨流入260億歐元，以及受管理資產（AUM）淨流入210億歐元的組合所證明。在批發銀行，手續費收入在多項產品上年增11%，顯示其在進一步收入多元化方面的進展。就全年而言，我們預期手續費收入將達50億歐元，較去年增加4億歐元，並意味著我們將比原計畫提前一年達成50億歐元目標。

With that, let's move to slide 15. On this slide, we show the development of all other income. The previous quarter was impacted by hedge ineffectiveness and by lower financial markets results resulting from the heightened market volatility and the sharp increase in interest rates. In the second quarter, we saw a strong recovery in the hedge ineffectiveness result on the back of reduced market volatility. Financial markets also recovered a stronger quarter with improved trading income.

接著我們看第15頁。本頁展示其他收入的變化。前一季受到避險無效性影響，且因市場波動加劇與利率急升導致金融市場業績較低。第二季在市場波動降低的背景下，我們看到避險無效性結果強勁回升。金融市場也回升，交易收入改善，使本季表現更強。

Year-on-year, when excluding for positive results from hedging ineffectiveness, all other income decreased. This is largely due to lower results from foreign currency exchange hedging in treasury, where the benefit from interest rate differentials between our main currencies has gradually come down over the past 12 months. Overall, we expect all other income for the full year to end somewhere between EUR2.5 billion and EUR2.7 billion. Next, slide 16, moving to expenses.

若排除避險無效性帶來的正面結果，其他收入年減。這主要是因財資部門（treasury）的外匯避險結果較低；過去12個月，我們主要幣別之間的利差所帶來的效益已逐步下降。整體而言，我們預期全年其他收入將落在25億至27億歐元之間。接著看第16頁，進入費用。

Expenses, excluding regulatory costs and incidental items are up 4.2% year-on-year. Besides annual salary increases, this mainly reflects higher marketing costs, which were particularly low in the first quarter. On a year-to-date basis, our cost growth is tracking at 2.7%, which is well in line with our previously communicated full year outlook. And as a reminder, within this full year outlook, we had already absorbed EUR30 million of previous quarter's incidental items, and we will similarly absorb the roughly EUR30 million of incremental costs this year from the consolidation of TFI.

費用（不含監管成本與一次性項目）年增4.2%。除年度薪資調升外，主要反映行銷成本較高，而第一季該成本特別低。以年初至今來看，我們的成本成長為2.7%，與先前溝通的全年展望相當一致。並提醒各位，在此全年展望中，我們已吸收前一季3,000萬歐元的一次性項目，且同樣也將吸收今年因合併TFI所增加的約3,000萬歐元增量成本。

Incidental items in the second quarter and those that may be booked in the subsequent quarters will be incremental to the full year outlook. In the second quarter of the year, we have booked EUR41 million of incidental items, which will result in roughly EUR40 million of annualized cost savings once fully implemented. Continued digitalization and our scaling of AI solutions increasingly allows us to enable commercial growth through a scalable operating model.

第二季的一次性項目，以及後續季度可能入帳的一次性項目，將在全年展望之外另行增加。今年第二季，我們已入帳4,100萬歐元的一次性項目，待全面落實後，將帶來約4,000萬歐元的年化成本節省。持續的數位化以及我們擴大AI解決方案的規模，正愈來愈使我們能透過可擴展的營運模式來推動商業成長。

As a result, we have improved our full-time employees over customer balances ratio by almost 7% year-on-year. Now let's move to risk costs on slide 17. Total risk costs were EUR279 million in the second quarter, equivalent to 15 basis points of average customer lending. This is well below our through-the-cycle average of 20 basis points, reflecting prudent risk management and the quality and strength of our loan book. Net additions to Stage 3 provision amounted to EUR270 million, including releases related to the sale of non-performing loans in retail banking.

因此，我們的全職員工與客戶餘額比率較去年同期改善了近7%。現在讓我們看第17頁的風險成本。第二季總風險成本為2.79億歐元，相當於平均客戶放款的15個基點。這明顯低於我們穿越景氣循環的平均水準20個基點，反映出審慎的風險管理，以及我們放款組合的品質與韌性。第3階段（Stage 3）備抵的淨新增為2.70億歐元，其中包含與零售銀行出售不良貸款相關的回沖。

Stage 1 and Stage 2 risk costs were insignificant. The impact from changes in the macroeconomic forecast was offset by a partial release of the management overlay for interest-only mortgages in the Netherlands. Overall, we remain confident in the strength and quality of our loan book. And finally, let me take you to slide 18 to discuss our core equity Tier 1 development. On slide 18, we show the development of our core equity Tier 1 ratio, which improved to 13.1%. Capital generation has been strong, supported by rising profitability and continued capital optimization measures.

第1階段與第2階段（Stage 1 與 Stage 2）的風險成本不顯著。宏觀經濟預測變動的影響，被荷蘭僅付息房貸（interest-only mortgages）管理層疊加調整（management overlay）的部分回沖所抵銷。整體而言，我們仍對放款組合的強度與品質充滿信心。最後，讓我帶各位看第18頁，討論我們核心第一級資本（CET1）的變動。在第18頁，我們展示核心第一級資本比率的走勢，該比率提升至13.1%。資本生成表現強勁，受惠於獲利能力提升以及持續的資本優化措施。

Overall, we generated 65 basis points in core equity Tier 1 in the quarter, which allowed us to reserve 100% of net results outside the core equity Tier 1 capital. Risk-weighted assets decreased by EUR2.4 billion in the quarter, a EUR0.5 billion FX impact and risk-weighted asset growth from business activity were more than offset by EUR1 billion of relief from an SRT transaction as well as model updates, a partial reduction in our stake in TTB and lower market risk-weighted assets.

整體而言，本季我們的核心第一級資本增加了65個基點，使我們得以將核心第一級資本以外的淨結果100%提列保留。本季風險加權資產（RWA）減少24億歐元，其中5億歐元為匯率影響；業務活動帶來的RWA成長，已被一筆SRT交易帶來的10億歐元釋放、以及模型更新、我們在TTB持股的部分降低與較低的市場風險加權資產所抵銷並超過。

Within Wholesale Banking, risk-weighted asset management was particularly strong, reflecting continued capital optimization efforts. Wholesale Banking risk-weighted assets decreased EUR5.3 billion in the quarter despite strong lending growth. And with that, let me hand back to Steven to wrap up today's presentation.

在批發銀行（Wholesale Banking）方面，風險加權資產管理表現尤其強勁，反映我們持續推動資本優化的努力。儘管放款成長強勁，批發銀行的風險加權資產本季仍減少53億歐元。接下來，我把時間交還給Steven，為今天的簡報作結。

Thank you, Ida. Before we move to Q&A, let me recap the key takeaways from today's presentation. The consistent execution of our Growing the difference strategy is delivering increasing value with strong progress across all segments. We are building a larger and deeper customer franchise, increasingly diversifying our income, and serving that growth at a lower incremental cost, creating a self-reinforcing cycle of customer growth, earnings growth, capital generation and increasing shareholder value per share. The rebalancing of the group's profile is progressing ahead of plan with the allocation of capital to higher return segments.

謝謝你，Ida。在進入問答之前，讓我回顧今天簡報的重點。我們持續一致地執行「Growing the difference」策略，正為各業務板塊帶來更高價值，並在所有領域取得強勁進展。我們正在建立更大且更深的客戶基礎，收入來源日益多元化，並以更低的邊際成本支撐成長，形成客戶成長、獲利成長、資本生成與每股股東價值提升的自我強化循環。集團業務結構的再平衡進度超前計畫，資本正配置至報酬率更高的板塊。

Furthermore, our continued capital efficiency allowed for a full reservation of quarterly net profit while still increasing the CET1 ratio to 13.1%. And as a reflection of strong and disciplined execution of our strategy, we are upgrading our ROTE outlook by 1 percentage point, now expecting an ROTE of more than 15% in 2026 and more than 16% in 2027. And with that, I would like to open the floor for Q&A. Operator, over to you.

此外，我們持續提升資本效率，使得在完整保留本季淨利的同時，仍將CET1比率提高至13.1%。同時，作為我們策略強勁且紀律執行的反映，我們將ROTE展望上調1個百分點，現預期2026年ROTE超過15%，2027年超過16%。接下來，我想開放進入問答。接線員，交給你。

(Operator Instructions) Benjamin Goy, Deutsche Bank.

(接線員指示) 德意志銀行（Deutsche Bank）的Benjamin Goy。

Maybe you can give a bit more color on the liability margin going forward now with the deposit campaigns. Should we expect a more modest increase in liability margin going forward? Or is that 3 basis points a good momentum given the tailwinds you have in the replicating portfolio?

也許你們可以就存款行銷活動之後、未來的負債利差（liability margin）多補充一些說明。我們是否應該預期未來負債利差的增幅會較為溫和？或者，考量你們在複製投資組合（replicating portfolio）上的順風因素，這3個基點是否代表良好的動能？

And then the second question on Private Banking. Maybe you can give us a bit more color first on why 40% is a good number rather than a full acquisition? And also more color on the general strategy for this pillar because it almost two years and now you have a bit more numbers, but still better to understand the strategy. Is it mainly about gaining wallet share? Or is it also gaining new clients in these markets?

第二個問題關於私人銀行（Private Banking）。能否先多說明一下，為什麼40%是一個好的比例，而不是直接全數收購？也請多談談這個支柱的一般策略，因為已經將近兩年了，現在你們提供了更多數字，但仍希望能更好理解策略。主要是為了提升錢包份額（wallet share）嗎？還是也包括在這些市場開發新客戶？

All right. Thank you very much, Ben. I will take the question on Private Banking and Ida will talk about the liability margin. About Private Banking, but let me start just in general to say, look, we want and we are diversifying our bank. We have a fantastic customer base, but we can become much more impactful and relevant with that customer base.

好的。非常感謝你，Ben。我來回答私人銀行的問題，Ida會談負債利差。關於私人銀行，我先從整體來說：我們希望、也正在讓本行的業務更加多元化。我們擁有非常出色的客戶基礎，但我們可以在這個客戶基礎上變得更有影響力、更具相關性。

That starts in private individuals, for example, where we have 41 million customers by offering them investment products, and we are increasingly doing so. So we're broadening and deepening the product propositions to our private individuals. And therefore, we see the assets under management growing that now grew with 27% to EUR322 billion. Every quarter, we grow the number of people that are investing with us with about 100,000 to 125,000. Every quarter, we see that going up.

這從個人客戶開始，例如我們有4,100萬名客戶，透過向他們提供投資產品——而且我們正越來越多地這麼做。因此，我們正在擴大並深化對個人客戶的產品主張。因此，我們看到資產管理規模（AUM）成長，目前成長27%至3,220億歐元。每一季，與我們一起投資的人數增加約10萬到12.5萬人。每一季，我們都看到這個數字持續上升。

And currently, there's about 5.3 million people investing through ING, and that's very good because it's growing, but 5.3 million compared to the 41 million also still shows that there is an enormous amount of upside. And then secondly, we're developing a customer segment that also uses these investment products, but it's also a way of serving customers, which is Private Banking, which is for people who have more money to invest.

目前約有530萬人透過ING進行投資，這非常好，因為它正在成長；但530萬相較於4,100萬也顯示仍有巨大的上行空間。第二，我們也在發展一個同樣使用這些投資產品的客群，同時這也是一種服務客戶的方式——也就是私人銀行，主要面向有更多資金可投資的人。

And we set up that third pillar as a separate pillar in the retail banking a couple of years ago, now rolling it out in all markets because we have a Private Banking segment in some markets like the Netherlands or Belgium, but in many markets that did not exist. So we're setting that up. And in doing so, we also look at, is there an opportunity to speed up the ability next to organic growth that we can provide new services to the same and to new customers?

幾年前我們在零售銀行中把第三支柱設立為獨立支柱，現在正推廣到所有市場，因為我們在荷蘭或比利時等部分市場已有私人銀行業務，但在許多市場原本並不存在。因此我們正在建立這項業務。在此過程中，我們也會評估：除了有機成長之外，是否有機會加速發展，讓我們能為既有客戶以及新客戶提供新的服務？

And in Spain, we did that with buying a 40% stake in Singular. Singular is a fantastic private bank with a great customer base. And we are taking a stake in them, therefore, collaborating with Singular Bank in doing more with their customers, but also providing our customers with the opportunity to invest in Singular. And this is also for us an opportunity to learn how to develop Private Banking in the market in which we until now did not develop private banking activities. And that's why we bought the 40% with an option we said already in the press release to buy the total at a later point in time. Ida, liability margin.

在西班牙，我們透過收購Singular 40%的持股來做到這點。Singular是一家非常出色的私人銀行，擁有優質的客戶基礎。我們入股後，便能與Singular Bank合作，為其客戶提供更多服務，同時也讓我們的客戶有機會在Singular進行投資。這對我們而言也是一個學習機會，了解如何在我們過去尚未發展私人銀行業務的市場中建立私人銀行能力。因此我們先買下40%，並如新聞稿所述，保留在未來某個時間點收購全部股權的選擇權。Ida，負債利差。

Thank you, and thanks for your question. As you noted, the liability margin increased by 3 basis points in the quarter and is now at 107 basis points. This reflects a disciplined deposit pricing and also, of course, a continued benefit from the replication portfolio and the tailwind that we already started to see in the second half of last year and continues to see now.

謝謝，也謝謝你的提問。如你所指出，本季負債利差上升3個基點，目前為107個基點。這反映了我們在存款定價上的紀律性，當然也反映複製投資組合帶來的持續效益，以及我們自去年下半年開始看到、並且目前仍在延續的順風因素。

We are also seeing this quarter that we have a good uptick in deposits in a lot of different markets, but also driven by campaigns in several of our countries. And in addition to that, of course, we point to Germany, bringing in EUR7.8 billion this quarter in deposits. We are not saying anything in terms of campaigns going forward. But if you look at this quarter and compare it to the first quarter, we're more pointing to a normalization of campaign activity following a fairly quiet first quarter.

我們也看到本季在許多不同市場的存款都有不錯的回升，其中也受到我們在多個國家推出行銷活動的帶動。此外，當然也要提到德國，本季帶來78億歐元的存款流入。對於未來是否會推出行銷活動，我們不做任何評論。但若你把本季與第一季相比，我們更傾向將其視為在第一季相對平靜之後，行銷活動回到常態化水準。

And that's also how I would look at it going forward. When looking at the liability margin outlook, we're saying that we expect to be in the upper mid-end of our guidance in terms of 100 and 110 basis points this year. But in '27 and '28, we say -- also expect to be above 110 in a period of time and then to be normalized going forward back to the levels that we have seen historically, also driven by the composition of the portfolio, where you know that we have a larger reliance on savings than current accounts, but that's also, of course, dependent on the growth going forward.

而這也是我對未來的看法。在看負債端利差展望時，我們的說法是：就今年100到110個基點的指引而言，我們預期會落在指引區間的中高端。但在'27與'28年，我們也表示——預期在一段時間內會高於110個基點，之後往前將回歸常態，回到我們歷史上所見的水準；這也受到投資組合結構所驅動，因為你知道我們對儲蓄存款的依賴高於活期存款，但這當然也取決於未來的成長情況。

Shrey Srivastava, Citi.

Shrey Srivastava，花旗。

I'd just like to ask about the nature of some of the deposit growth you've seen in the quarter, which has been really quite strong, particularly Germany. Is it largely sort of new-to-bank customers? And of the customers you attract, there's been a lot of debate around sort of the nature of some of these customers. So if you could provide a bit more detail around what's the age profile, how many products do they take up with you, and so on?

我想問一下本季你們看到的部分存款成長的性質，成長其實相當強勁，尤其是在德國。這主要是所謂的新進銀行（new-to-bank）客戶嗎？另外，對於你們吸引到的客戶，市場上對這些客戶的性質有很多討論。所以如果可以的話，能否提供更多細節，例如年齡結構、他們會跟你們使用多少項產品等等？

And just following on from that, my second question is around the nature of some of these. I think you termed it below-the-line deposit campaigns. Could you provide some more detail around how you do the targeting for these campaigns and just the strategy in each market?

接著延伸我的第二個問題，是關於其中一些活動的性質。我想你們稱之為線下（below-the-line）的存款活動。能否更詳細說明你們如何針對這些活動做客群鎖定，以及各市場的策略？

All right. Thank you, Shrey. So on the deposit growth, there was a deposit growth of about EUR16 billion this year -- this quarter. Actually, we grew deposits in all markets. So that's, of course, then largely with existing customers. And of course, we acquired 380,000 new customers, but it was across the board. Two countries stand out. One is the Netherlands, whereby the holiday allowances on the salaries are typically paid in the second quarter, and that causes then additional inflow in the Netherlands. And in Germany, we did a below-the-line campaign. So that's a campaign to existing customers, whereby we then do fresh money campaigns to -- which also, therefore, increase the deposits over there. So on the first question, the answer is largely with existing customers.

好的。謝謝你，Shrey。關於存款成長，本季——這一年到目前為止——存款成長約160億歐元。其實我們在所有市場都增加了存款。因此這當然主要來自既有客戶。當然，我們也新增了38萬名新客戶，但這是全面性的。有兩個國家特別突出。一個是荷蘭，因為薪資中的假期津貼通常在第二季發放，這會帶來荷蘭額外的資金流入。而在德國，我們做了一個線下活動。也就是針對既有客戶的活動，我們推出新資金（fresh money）活動——因此也會提高當地存款。所以第一個問題的答案是：主要來自既有客戶。

Now on the campaigns, but I think you asked for quite a bit of detail. But let me just tell you that the campaign activity varies market by market, and it depends on where we see the most opportunities and that can sometimes be attracting new-to-bank customers or we encourage fresh money inflows from existing ones.

至於活動部分，我想你問了相當多細節。但我先說明，活動的安排會因市場而異，取決於我們在哪裡看到最多機會；有時是吸引新進銀行客戶，有時則是鼓勵既有客戶帶來新資金流入。

And if you look at new-to-bank customers, a teaser rate or cash back is in a way to get customers on board and then they get to experience our app or service model, after which many of them remain active clients. And typically, we say when we do a campaign, two-thirds of the fresh money will stay and a third will flow out after the campaign ends.

如果看新進銀行客戶，提供引導利率（teaser rate）或現金回饋是一種讓客戶加入的方法，之後他們可以體驗我們的App或服務模式，而其中許多人會持續成為活躍客戶。一般而言，我們說當我們做活動時，新資金約有三分之二會留下，三分之一會在活動結束後流出。

If you look at existing customers, that was the below-the-line campaign that we did this time around in Germany, those fresh money campaigns are a tool to increase the share of wallet and then we give attractive retention rates and short payback periods. And in the second quarter, we see that now happening in Germany. So always, when we do these things, it's always highly data-driven. It's always tailored to local objectives, to the local customer base and local market condition and customer dynamics. So that's what I can say about that.

如果看既有客戶，這次我們在德國做的就是線下活動；這些新資金活動是一種提高錢包占比（share of wallet）的工具，然後我們提供具吸引力的留存利率與較短的回收期。而在第二季，我們看到這件事正在德國發生。所以每當我們做這些事情時，都是高度數據驅動的。也都會依據在地目標、在地客群基礎、在地市場狀況與客戶動態來量身打造。這就是我能分享的部分。

Giulia Miotto, Morgan Stanley.

Giulia Miotto，摩根士丹利。

I have two. So first of all, on the packages that you have launched this quarter, how is the take up going? Yes, if you can share any stats on that, it would be interesting to hear.

我有兩個問題。首先，關於你們本季推出的方案組合（packages），目前的採用情況如何？如果你們能分享一些數據，會很有意思。

And then Secondly, the ROTE guidance has been upgraded above 16% for next year. But Steven, you are already ahead of a few targets of the previous Capital Markets Day, the capital allocation, the profitability. So -- and European banks in general are approaching ROTEs closer to 20%. So can we start dreaming about high teens ROTEs, especially as we look into 2028? And when can we hear about your midterm ambitions next?

第二，明年的ROTE指引已上調至16%以上。但Steven，你們其實已經在上一次資本市場日的一些目標上超前了，例如資本配置、獲利能力。所以——而且歐洲銀行整體的ROTE也正接近20%。那麼我們是否可以開始期待更高的十幾％（high teens）的ROTE，特別是展望到2028年？以及你們何時會再談下一階段的中期目標？

Thanks, Giulia, for your questions. On the subscription packages, yes, so we used a subscription -- four subscription packages in a number of our markets earlier this year. And to date, 17 million customers have been migrated. And by default, customers migrated to an equivalent package. And the upselling because you have more and you have [Max], those are the higher packages.

謝謝你，Giulia，提出這些問題。關於訂閱式方案，是的，我們今年稍早在多個市場推出了訂閱——四種訂閱方案。截至目前，已有1,700萬名客戶完成遷移。而在預設情況下，客戶會被遷移到等同的方案。至於向上銷售（upselling），因為你有更多內容、你有[Max]，那些就是較高階的方案。

And so it starts, of course, with basic banking services, but then you can also buy protection services and you can buy even lifestyle packages on television or online media or travel. So there's many things that you can do when you upsell. And basically, we do that because we want to then offer an integral package because customers are asking for that to make their lives easier to buy a bundle of these services than buy them all separately.

因此它當然從基本的銀行服務開始，但你也可以購買保障服務，甚至可以購買生活風格方案，例如電視或線上媒體或旅遊。所以在向上銷售時，你可以做很多事情。而我們之所以這麼做，基本上是因為我們希望提供一個整合式方案；客戶也在要求這樣的方案，因為相較於分別購買，將這些服務打包購買能讓生活更便利。

So that's also why I said in my presentation, we're moving from a more product-based offering to a more integral client-based offering depending on the profile of the customer.

這也是為什麼我在簡報中說，我們正從較偏產品導向的提供方式，轉向更整合、以客戶為中心的提供方式，並依客戶的輪廓（profile）而定。

Now that upselling requires time, and we will -- but we believe that we can see the benefits of that fee income to start come through later in this year, also taking into account initial pricing incentives that we put in place to allow customers to get use these additional offerings. So first are good, very positive reactions.

而這樣的向上銷售需要時間，我們將——但我們相信，這些費用收入的效益會在今年稍晚開始顯現，同時也要考量我們一開始為了讓客戶習慣使用這些額外服務而設置的定價誘因。所以目前的反應很好、非常正面。

A number of thousands of people have already moved to the higher packages and we can likely more show about that in the second half of this year. When you talk about the ROTE outlook, that's why I started to smile.

已經有數千人轉到更高階的方案，我們很可能會在今年下半年分享更多相關資訊。你提到ROTE展望時，這也是我為什麼開始微笑。

Yeah, look, of course, we updated it. I think what we're doing is very good. You see that the machine is humming. And that's why we are able to update the outlook for '26 and '27. And like I also said in the presentation, we keep on working also in the years thereafter to further increase our ROTE. More to come about that at a later point in time.

是的，你看，當然，我們更新了指引。我認為我們做得非常好。你可以看到這部機器正在順暢運轉。因此我們才能更新'26與'27年的展望。而且正如我在簡報中也提到的，我們在其後的年度也會持續努力，進一步提升我們的ROTE。之後在適當時點會有更多內容。

Benoit Petrarque, Kepler Cheuvreux.

Benoit Petrarque，Kepler Cheuvreux。

So the first one is on the sustainability of this very strong commercial momentum. You are growing lending and deposits more than 8% for quite some time actually. So can we expect your 4% to 5% range to be conservative? And do you think you can sustainably grow more than 4% to 5%? And do you think this is basically a sustainable number to grow above the 5% like you've done in the past quarters? And also linked to that, you've been growing the number of mobile primary customers by almost 400,000 numbers.

第一個問題是關於這股非常強勁的商業動能是否可持續。你們其實在一段時間內，放款與存款成長都超過8%。所以我們是否可以認為你們4%到5%的區間是偏保守的？你們是否認為可以可持續地成長超過4%到5%？以及你們是否認為，像過去幾季那樣成長高於5%基本上是可持續的數字？另外也相關的是，你們的行動主要往來客戶（mobile primary customers）數量增加了將近40萬。

A lot of banks are fighting for primary customers nowadays. So what is the reason behind this very strong achievement? And I guess your new subscription model will also -- have not yet contributed to that number and will probably contribute in the coming quarters.

如今許多銀行都在爭奪主要往來客戶。那麼，這項非常亮眼的成果背後原因是什麼？而我猜您的新訂閱模式也——尚未對該數字有所貢獻，並且可能會在接下來幾個季度開始貢獻。

And the next question is on the liability margin. Could you remind me what is your marginal pass-through rate assumption in your liability margin guidance? Is that still around the 100% for the coming ECB rate moves basically?

下一個問題是關於負債端利差。能否提醒一下，在您對負債端利差的指引中，對邊際傳導率（pass-through rate）的假設是什麼？基本上，對於接下來 ECB 的利率變動，是否仍大約是 100%？

All right. Let me start with answering the question on the sustainability of the commercial momentum, and then Ida will take the question on liability margin. So the commercial momentum starts with getting more customers in and doing more with customers. And you also alluded to that 380,000 new Mobile Prime customer number.

好的。我先回答關於商業動能可持續性的問題，接著 Ida 會回答負債端利差的問題。商業動能的起點，是吸引更多客戶並與客戶做更多業務。您也提到了新增 38 萬名 Mobile Prime 主要客戶的數字。

So -- but -- and the question there is, okay, how do you then do that? Well, in the end, it's about providing a -- it starts with providing a superior experience. So continue to work on taking friction away, making it easier, making it simpler. And that's why we also gave the examples in the presentation about the Agentic mortgages. I mean we have -- we do also mortgages with AI and online mortgages. For example, in Germany, we have online mortgages with AI that we can -- that people can do in 30 minutes.

所以——但——問題是，好，那你們是怎麼做到的？嗯，歸根結底，是從提供更優質的體驗開始。因此持續致力於降低摩擦、讓流程更容易、更簡單。這也是為什麼我們在簡報中舉了 Agentic 房貸的例子。我的意思是，我們也有用 AI 的房貸以及線上房貸。例如在德國，我們有結合 AI 的線上房貸，人們可以在 30 分鐘內完成。

When it's a more difficult flow such as -- then we can use Agentic because then you need additional information or additional steps need to be taken to get risk approvals. And the Netherlands, therefore, we launched Agentic, and we're also going to roll that out in other markets as well. And then we start also with conversational chats in contact centers also through Gen AI. And all these things we continuously do in detail, we measure what are the key journeys, how do we improve? What is the NPS overall? What is the NPS per journey to become better and better and better?

當流程更複雜時，例如——那我們就可以使用 Agentic，因為這時需要補充額外資訊或需要額外步驟來取得風險核准。因此在荷蘭我們推出了 Agentic，也將在其他市場推廣上線。接著我們也在聯絡中心導入透過生成式 AI 的對話式聊天。所有這些事情我們都持續在細節上精進，衡量哪些是關鍵旅程、如何改善？整體 NPS 是多少？各個旅程的 NPS 是多少？以便變得越來越好、越來越好、越來越好。

And that's why we also measure in how many countries are we number one, what's the distance to the number two in which journeys are we better and they better to actually be able to grow that. And then the question, of course, is that's why we want to have them as a primary customer is to do more with them so that the client base becomes sticky and that the lifetime value of the customer then increases. And that has to do also with becoming a broader bank.

這也是為什麼我們會衡量：我們在多少個國家排名第一、與第二名的差距是多少、在哪些旅程我們做得更好、他們做得更好，才能真正推動成長。當然，問題是，我們之所以希望他們成為主要往來客戶，是為了與他們做更多業務，讓客戶基礎更具黏著度，進而提升客戶終身價值。這也與成為一家更全面的銀行有關。

We are now growing the insurance fees. We're growing the investment fees. We're going to grow the investment accounts. We're going to introduce better packages. We're going to become more specific in Business Banking and Private Banking, all to become more relevant in the lives of our customers and do more with our customers because when we know them better, we can also serve them better.

我們正在提升保險手續費收入。我們正在提升投資手續費收入。我們將增加投資帳戶。我們將推出更好的方案組合。我們會在商業銀行與私人銀行方面更聚焦、更具針對性；這一切都是為了在客戶生活中更具相關性，與客戶做更多業務，因為當我們更了解他們時，也能更好地服務他們。

And that also then comes back to deposits and lending because we're driving that primary mobile growth, not only growth, but people who want to use ING as their main bank or one of their main banks, we are continuing to be able to get deposits and provide lending. And in that setting, that specifically, we do can see continued mortgage demand in many markets. That's why we believe we can continue to grow mortgages at a relatively high pace.

而這也會回到存款與放款，因為我們推動主要行動客戶的成長——不只是成長，而是那些希望把 ING 當作主要銀行或主要銀行之一的人——我們就能持續吸收存款並提供放款。在這樣的背景下，我們確實看到許多市場的房貸需求持續。因此我們相信可以在相對較高的速度下持續成長房貸。

We are rolling out Business Banking that is also driving, therefore, more activity in Business Banking. And in Wholesale Banking, the momentum is there. I think that, that will be a bit more cyclical in Wholesale Banking. So there, we see a relatively lower growth. So the growth will be higher in retail and lending than in wholesale. And at some point, in a longer-term time, we believe that lending and deposit growth will hover around the 5%. But in the shorter term, we believe these will remain at elevated levels.

我們正在推廣商業銀行業務，因此也帶動商業銀行端更多活動。而在企業金融（Wholesale Banking）方面，動能仍在。我認為企業金融會更具週期性。所以在那裡，我們看到相對較低的成長。因此，零售與放款的成長會高於企業金融。而在更長期的時間維度上，我們相信放款與存款成長將大致落在約 5% 左右。但在短期內，我們認為這些水準仍將維持在較高檔。

Thank you. And on the liability margin, we don't provide insight in terms of our estimates around pass-through rates. But overall, I think it's important just to highlight that profitability is the guiding principle when it comes to growth independent of where that growth come from, either if it's lending or if it's deposits or if it's other type of growth. And that also shows in terms of the underlying development that we're seeing this quarter as well as what we've seen in previous quarters.

謝謝。至於負債端利差，我們不會就傳導率假設提供估計細節。但整體而言，我認為重要的是要強調：無論成長來自哪裡——不論是放款、存款或其他類型的成長——獲利能力都是我們在成長上的指導原則。這也反映在我們本季所看到的基本面發展，以及前幾季所見的情況。

There is continued strong competition in the market and also on deposits and is expected to be that also going forward. But we continue to focus on profitability and continue also to focus on cross-sell, as Steven rightly pointed to as well.

市場競爭仍然激烈，存款端亦是如此，且預期未來也將持續。但我們仍專注於獲利能力，也持續專注於交叉銷售，正如 Steven 也正確指出的。

(inaudible), Bank of America.

（聽不清楚），美國銀行。

Just a couple of questions from my side. First, on the NII and the liability margin. I wanted to pick up on the deposit flows in the future because -- I mean, the improved outlook, I understand is from a stronger deposit growth, which could be seasonal in Q2, but also less frequent and less, I guess, aggressive deposit campaigns that you've done in the previous year, especially in Germany and Belgium.

我這邊有幾個問題。第一個，關於淨利息收入（NII）與負債端利差。我想延伸問一下未來的存款流入，因為——我的意思是，我理解上調展望是來自更強的存款成長，這在第二季可能有季節性因素，但也因為你們相較前一年，較少、也較不那麼——我想——激進地進行存款活動，尤其是在德國與比利時。

So clearly, you've changed your way to attract those deposits. My question is how confident you are not this quarter or next quarter, but in the medium term, you still -- given your deposit franchise in these countries, you'll still be able to gather those flows into -- you just mentioned an increasing competition in those two countries. So really to understand your view there because I guess we can only see it in next two quarters if you continue the same strategy.

所以很明顯，你們已改變吸引這些存款的方式。我的問題是，你們有多大信心不是在本季或下季，而是在中期，考量你們在這些國家的存款基礎，仍能持續吸收這些資金流入——你們剛提到這兩個國家的競爭正在加劇。所以我想真正了解你們的看法，因為我猜我們只能在接下來兩個季度觀察你們是否會延續同樣策略。

And my second question is on capital. Just a clarification. So you are accruing 100% of earnings. Your dividend policy is 50%. That's because you pay those extra distribution, are you then required the ECB to accrue 100%, but doesn't mean you would pay 100%, you adjusted full year or that means you're actually intending to distribute 100%. I just want to get that clarified.

第二個問題是關於資本。只是想釐清一下。所以你們正在提列（accrue）100% 的盈餘。你們的股利政策是 50%。這是因為你們會支付額外的分配，所以 ECB 要求你們提列 100%，但這不代表你們會支付 100%——你們是把全年做了調整，還是其實打算分配 100%？我只是想把這點釐清。

All right. I'll talk about the confidence about the liability and deposit flows and Ida will talk about the capital.

好的。我來談談對負債端與存款流入的信心，Ida 會談資本。

Look, I mean, we are becoming more and more precise about how we do -- if we do campaigning, how we do campaigning. And in the first quarter, there was a relatively low activity. And the second quarter was more activity that we did a bit below-the-line campaigns. And we are alternating between these campaigns where we see fit in terms of existing customers or whether where we want new customers or whether we want to focus on broadening our activities with existing or doing that with new customers.

你看，我的意思是，我們在是否做活動、以及如何做活動方面，正變得越來越精準。第一季的活動相對較少。第二季活動較多，我們做了一些偏向非主力曝光（below-the-line）的活動。我們會在這些活動之間交替，視情況而定：是針對既有客戶、或是我們想要新客戶、或是我們想聚焦於擴大與既有客戶的業務，或是對新客戶做同樣的事。

And we have been proving that. So I pointed our track record for the past many years, and that gives us confidence also that we're able to do that, especially given the fact we continue to grow our mobile primary clients. So that is a proof point that more clients want to do more business with us. And of course, there is competition, and that competition is diversifying, and we see that. And in different markets, there are either existing banks or neo-banks or banks coming from different jurisdictions.

而我們已經證明我們做得到。所以我提到我們過去多年的紀錄，這也讓我們有信心能做到，特別是考量到我們持續增加行動端主要客戶。因此這是一個證據，顯示更多客戶想與我們做更多業務。當然，市場有競爭，而且競爭正在多元化，我們也看到了。在不同市場，競爭者可能是既有銀行、純網銀（neo-banks），或是來自不同司法管轄區的銀行。

We never should underestimate that, and we don't underestimate that, but we're also confident about how we position us in that, and it starts and stops with giving your customer a superior experience and making sure that the customer chooses you as their primary bank. And that will then bring that benefit of a higher lifetime, including deposits. On capital, Ida?

我們絕不應低估這一點，我們也沒有低估，但我們也對自身在其中的定位充滿信心，而這一切的起點與終點，都在於為客戶提供卓越的體驗，並確保客戶選擇你作為其主要往來銀行。而這將帶來更高的客戶終身價值所帶來的效益，其中也包括存款。關於資本，Ida？

Yes. As you might remember, in the first quarter, we changed our reserving policy also to be in line with EBA guidelines. So as of the first quarter 2026, we reserve both our regular 50% dividend payout policy and potential additional distribution outside the core equity Tier 1.

是的。如你可能記得，在第一季，我們也調整了提存政策，以符合EBA指引。因此，自2026年第一季起，我們同時提存我們一貫的50%股利配發政策，以及核心一級資本（CET1）之外可能的額外分配。

There is no change to our dividend policy. We continue to have the same policy and also have continued to have the same communication around it. We will pay out 50% of net profit to continue providing an attractive shareholder return. Second, we will deploy capital into profitable growth organically or when stringent criteria are met inorganically.

我們的股利政策沒有改變。我們持續採用相同政策，並且也一直以相同方式對外溝通。我們將配發淨利的50%，以持續提供具吸引力的股東報酬。第二，我們將把資本投入於具獲利性的成長，無論是有機成長，或是在符合嚴格標準時進行非有機成長。

And then as a third, structural excess capital above 13% of core equity Tier 1, but also then including what we're setting aside as profit throughout the year will continue to be returned to shareholders. So therefore, we will have to come back to this also, as you know, in the third quarter, which is in line with our previous communication.

第三，結構性超額資本高於核心一級資本（CET1）13%的部分，並且也包含我們在年度期間自利潤中提列保留的部分，將持續回饋給股東。因此，正如你所知，我們也必須在第三季再回到這個議題，這與我們先前的溝通一致。

Namita Samtani, Barclays.

Namita Samtani，巴克萊。

My first one, there's a lot of focus on the liability margin, but the lending margin deterioration in the second quarter. I just wanted to ask if this was a conscious business decision, i.e., to go into lower margin, higher ROE business. And can you tell me if you're seeing lending margin pressure anywhere in particular across the business, whether it's by country or by product?

我的第一個問題，市場對負債利差關注很多，但第二季放款利差惡化。我想問這是否是有意識的業務決策，也就是轉向較低利差、較高ROE的業務。另外你能否說明，你是否在業務的某些特定領域看到放款利差壓力，不論是按國家或按產品？

And my second question, on the Wholesale Bank, I can see the income over RWAs for the first half of 2026, it's 493 bps annualized. So it's a bit of an improvement since the 470 bps in 2025, but it's still some way below peers.

第二個問題，關於批發銀行（Wholesale Bank），我看到2026年上半年以RWA計的收入為493個基點（年化）。相較於2025年的470個基點確實有所改善，但仍明顯低於同業。

I can see this quarter, the group has been able to grow wholesale revenues and RWAs have declined quarter-on-quarter, particularly in the rest of the world. But how sustainable is this strategy going forward? And what initiatives are being taken to improve revenues and ultimately, the ROE of the wholesale business aside from RWA efficiency in general?

我看到本季集團能夠提升批發收入，而RWA則季對季下降，尤其是在世界其他地區。但這項策略未來的可持續性如何？除了整體提升RWA效率之外，為了改善收入並最終提升批發業務ROE，正在採取哪些措施？

Yeah. Thank you, Namita. I think on the lending margin, that was not a conscious business decision. What you are seeing is that we continue to grow mortgages at a rapid pace, which is lower risk, lower RWA, and also lower margin activity compared to other parts of the loan book. And within Wholesale Banking, there was also a shift to higher investment-grade loans. And therefore, that also comes at a lower margin, but there is not a conscious change in that, and we continue to see the lending margin hovering around this level for the remainder of the year.

是的。謝謝你，Namita。我想就放款利差而言，那並不是有意識的業務決策。你看到的是我們持續以很快的速度成長房貸，房貸屬於較低風險、較低RWA，同時相較於放款組合的其他部分也是較低利差的業務。而在批發銀行內部，也出現向較高投資等級貸款的轉移。因此利差也會較低，但這並非有意識的改變；我們預期今年剩餘期間放款利差將大致維持在這個水準附近。

When we talk about Wholesale Banking over RWA -- Wholesale Banking income over RWA, it's indeed also a focal point for us. That's -- we focus on increasing our income over RWA in Wholesale Banking. It comes from, on the one hand, continuing to be able to sell or do SRTs or do secondary trading in terms of the loans that we have on our book.

當我們談到批發銀行的「收入／RWA」——也就是批發銀行收入相對於RWA，這確實也是我們的重點關注項目。我們的重點是提升批發銀行的收入／RWA。一方面，來自於我們持續能夠出售、進行SRT，或就我們帳上貸款進行次級市場交易。

So using our capital more efficiently and recycle our capital more efficiently, which is also what we said during our Capital Markets Day. There we said we're going to recycle the capital in Wholesale Banking more and put a relative weight of capital more on the retail side.

也就是更有效率地使用資本、並更有效率地循環運用資本，這也是我們在資本市場日所說的。當時我們表示，將在批發銀行更積極地循環運用資本，並把資本的相對權重更多放在零售端。

Then we said it would be 55%, 45% in '27. And now we are 56%, 44% for retail mid-'26, so we're 18 months ahead. We continue to do that with Wholesale Banking. So in terms of the capital, we've now done 4 basis points of SRTs. We said for the year, we would do 15 to 20 basis points in capital improvement, which will largely come from Wholesale banking, so there's still quite a bit to go.

我們當時說到2027年會是55%、45%。而現在在2026年年中，零售／批發已是56%、44%，也就是我們提前了18個月達成。我們會在批發銀行持續推進。就資本而言，我們目前已透過SRT改善了4個基點。我們說過今年將達成15到20個基點的資本改善，主要將來自批發銀行，因此仍有相當的進度要完成。

The other element in Wholesale Banking is what we're working on, and you see that coming through as well is to do more activity on the TS and the financial markets side so that we, again, make more revenues over RWA, not only by decreasing RWA, but also improving the income that -- for that, we have continuously invested and that is paying off. We do see more activity. We do see more trade and payment deals coming through, and that we will continue to do to further increase that metric.

批發銀行的另一個面向是我們正在推動的工作，你也可以看到成果逐步反映出來：在TS與金融市場端增加更多活動，讓我們再次提升收入／RWA，不僅透過降低RWA，也透過提升收入。為此我們持續投入，而這些投資正在見效。我們確實看到更多活動。

Delphine Lee, JPMorgan.

Delphine Lee，摩根大通。

My first one is just thinking about loan book '27, where your total income has been upgraded by more than EUR1 billion. I mean part of that is obviously fees and commission, but I would assume also commercial NII.

第一個問題是關於你們到2027年的放款組合，你們的總收入上調了超過10億歐元。我想其中一部分顯然是手續費與佣金，但我也假設商業淨利息收入（NII）也有貢獻。

Just thinking about liability margin. Do you think the progression in liability margin can be to the same extent as what we are seeing in current trends in '26?

再談到負債利差。你認為負債利差的改善幅度，能否達到我們在2026年目前趨勢所呈現的同等程度？

And then my second question is, you mentioned the rollout of agentic AI, which has started already. Just trying to understand a little bit if you are seeing any positive impacts in terms of commercially being able to generate more revenues or any impact on your efficiency on your cost base?

第二個問題，你提到代理型AI（agentic AI）的推廣已經開始。我想更了解一下，你們是否看到任何正面影響，例如在商業面能夠帶來更多收入，或是在成本基礎上對效率有任何影響？

I'll respond on the agentic AI, and I give the liability margin question to Ida. Yes. So on agentic AI, so let me give you -- so we have generative AI and within that, we then have agentic AI. And you asked specifically on agentic AI. So there, what we have seen when we launched this in mortgages in the Netherlands that we could process a higher number of mortgages with the same people and that we -- that's one.

我先回應代理型AI，負債利差的問題交給Ida。是的。關於代理型AI，我先說明——我們有生成式AI，而在其中又包含代理型AI。你特別問的是代理型AI。我們在荷蘭把它用在房貸流程上線後看到的是：在相同人力下，我們可以處理更多件房貸，這是第一點。

And two, that on those mortgages because typically, you can use already digitization or AI 1.0, if you will, to do, let's say, the basic mortgages, which are, let's say, less complicated with less steps. But with Agentic mortgages, because I said if you do digital mortgages fully STP front to back in some markets, we do those in 30 minutes, [time to yes].

第二點是，對於這些房貸，因為通常你可以用既有的數位化或所謂AI 1.0來處理，例如基本房貸——也就是較不複雜、步驟較少的案件。但在代理型房貸上，因為我提到若在某些市場把數位房貸做到全流程STP（端到端直通式處理），我們可以在30分鐘內完成，[核准時間]。

But the more complicated ones because that requires additional questions and additional documents will take a number of days. And with agentic mortgage launch that we now did in the Netherlands for that particular portion, we brought the time to yes back from seven days to five days.

但較複雜的案件，因為需要額外提問與補充文件，通常會需要好幾天。而我們現在在荷蘭針對那一部分推出代理型房貸後，把核准時間從7天縮短到5天。

So it's both. It's -- and more revenues because you can help people clients faster and cost avoidance because you do not need more people for it. Ida, on liability margin.

所以兩者都有。也就是——收入增加，因為你能更快協助客戶；以及成本避免，因為你不需要為此增加人力。Ida，關於負債利差。

Yes. Thank you. As previously indicated and what we also continue to say today is that we expect the liability margin to be above 110 basis points in '27 and '28. So slightly higher than what we expect it to be coming out of 2026.

是的。謝謝。如先前所指出、也是我們今天持續強調的，我們預期在'27與'28年，負債利差將高於110個基點。因此會略高於我們預期在2026年結束時的水準。

This is, of course, also dependent on a number of different things, but the interest rate curve as well because it's really the replication part of the portfolio that is bringing a supporting element to this as well. But as you have seen in the first half, the curve has been quite volatile. But even with the curve coming down quarter on quarter from coming out of the first quarter into the second quarter, we are increasing our commercial NII outlook for '26 and also then pointing to the strong momentum that we see moving into '27 with deposit growth of attractive margins and also the back book of broadly stable pricing.

這當然也取決於多項不同因素，其中也包括利率曲線，因為真正提供支撐因素的是投資組合中的複製（replication）部分。但如你在上半年所見，曲線相當波動。不過，即使曲線從第一季到第二季呈現季比下滑，我們仍上調了'26年的商業淨利息收入（NII）展望，並指出我們看到進入'27年的強勁動能：存款成長帶來具吸引力的利差，以及存量資產（back book）定價大致保持穩定。

Going forward, we will benefit from the structure of our replication portfolio, both when it comes to the short-term part of it as also the longer term repricing upwards. So therefore, also with today's curve, we believe that we may end up above 110 basis points in 2027 and 2028, of course, depending on competitive dynamics and rate developments.

展望未來，我們將受益於複製投資組合的結構，無論是其短期部分，或是較長期重新定價上調的部分。因此，即使以今天的曲線來看，我們相信在2027與2028年最終可能會高於110個基點，當然仍取決於競爭態勢與利率走勢。

Farquhar Murray, Autonomous.

Farquhar Murray，Autonomous。

Just one set of questions, if I may. All on the RWA side, which is really strong at EUR2.4 billion Q-on-Q despite good volumes. I just wondered if you could break out the benefits from model updates and TMB within the Q-on-Q delta. And in particular, what drove those favorable model updates in terms of product or business line? I'm presuming it's mainly wholesale, but could I get a sense of what products within that? And finally, is that part of an ECB-level rolling program, presumably more ING-specific optimization efforts coming through?

如果可以的話，我只有一組問題。都在RWA方面，季比表現非常強勁，達到24億歐元，儘管放款量也不錯。我想請問你們能否拆分一下季比變動中，模型更新與TMB帶來的效益各是多少。尤其是，這些有利的模型更新是由哪些產品或業務線所驅動？我推測主要是批發銀行，但能否讓我了解其中是哪些產品？最後，這是否屬於ECB層級的滾動式計畫的一部分，還是更偏向ING自身的優化措施所帶來的成果？

All right, Ida.

好的，Ida。

Yes. As previously mentioned by Steven, the SRT that we did related to our Wholesale Banking portfolio in Germany gave approximately EUR1 billion of reliefs. In addition to that, we have model updates, which is generating EUR2.8 billion of reliefs. Apart from that, we don't give any granular details, but you can also see overall that there is a positive development on risk-weighted assets overall.

是的。如Steven先前提到，我們在德國針對批發銀行投資組合所做的SRT，約帶來10億歐元的釋放。此外，我們也有模型更新，帶來28億歐元的釋放。除此之外，我們不提供更細的明細，但你也可以整體看到風險加權資產的正向發展。

And whether is all updates on any specific or part of the [rolling programs] please?

那麼，這些更新是否都屬於任何特定或部分的[滾動式計畫]呢？

We continuously update our model portfolio and also in dialogue with ECB, and that could also go in a positive direction, but it could also be in a negative direction depending on this. So we're not giving any guidance in terms of future potential on the model side. And this is something that you -- I expect us to see also going forward. And -- but this quarter, we see a relief related to model updates of EUR2.8 billion.

我們會持續更新我們的模型組合，並且也與ECB保持對話；結果可能朝正向發展，但也可能因情況而朝負向發展。因此，我們不會就模型面未來的潛在影響提供任何指引。而這也是你——我預期我們未來仍會持續看到的情況。不過本季，我們看到與模型更新相關的釋放為28億歐元。

(Operator Instructions) Alberto Cordara, Intesa.

（接線員指示）Alberto Cordara，Intesa。

For me, a couple of questions. The first one is you hold the CET1 of around 13% return the rest. Can you please walk me through the order of preference for a marginal euro of capital? Is it organic lending, bolt-on M&A like Singular Bank or buyback? What actually wins at the margin today?

我有兩個問題。第一個是，你們將CET1維持在約13%，其餘則回饋。能否請你們說明一下，對於邊際新增的一歐元資本，你們的優先順序是什麼？是有機放款成長、像Singular Bank那樣的補強型併購（bolt-on M&A），還是庫藏股回購？就目前而言，邊際上到底哪一項會勝出？

And the second question is, I mean, SRT is becoming more structural for you. You've done very little in the past. Now you started doing more and more SRT. So you're effectively renting out risk that you used to hold. Does that change the through-the-cycle cost of risk we should assume or the earnings you keep in a downturn?

第二個問題是，我的意思是，SRT對你們而言正變得更具結構性。你們過去做得很少。現在開始做越來越多SRT。所以你們等於把原本自己持有的風險租出去。這是否會改變我們應該假設的穿越景氣循環的風險成本，或是在景氣下行時你們能保留的獲利？

On the order of preference for capital allocation, the first step is profitable growth. So if we can grow at attractive returns, that is where the first point of capital goes to. Then we look at whether we can accelerate that growth attractively with add-on M&A. And then we say if there is a structural excess of capital above 13%, then we will return that to shareholders. That is unchanged from what we previously said.

關於資本配置的優先順序，第一步是獲利性成長。因此，如果我們能以具吸引力的報酬率成長，資本首先會投入在那裡。接著我們會看是否能透過補強型併購，以具吸引力的方式加速成長。然後我們會說，如果資本在結構上超過13%而形成超額，我們就會把那部分回饋給股東。這點與我們先前所說的並無改變。

On the SRT, usage is picking up, I'll give the floor to Andrea.

至於SRT，使用量正在上升，我把時間交給Andrea。

Yeah. Usage is picking up, but let's say, if I get your question, let's say, it is not our intention to change materially our risk appetite or underwriting standards on the back of the externalization of the risk through SRT. So we don't expect any material impact resulting from SRT other than the capital optimization on our cost of risk.

是的。使用量正在上升，但我想，如果我理解你的問題，我們並無意因為透過SRT將風險外部化，而在實質上改變我們的風險偏好或承作標準。因此，除了資本優化之外，我們不預期SRT會對我們的風險成本帶來任何重大影響。

There are no further questions in queue. I will now hand it back to Steven van Rijswijk for closing remarks.

目前佇列中沒有其他問題。我現在把電話交回給Steven van Rijswijk作結語。

Yes. Thank you very much, operator, and thank you very much for all of you on the call for your time and your good questions. I'm sure this is a very busy season for you. So I wish you all the best for that. And hopefully, after that, you get some well-deserved rest and holidays. So have a great summer and looking forward to talking to you again soon. Thank you.

是的。非常感謝，接線員，也非常感謝各位撥冗參與並提出很好的問題。我相信這對各位而言是非常忙碌的季節。因此祝各位一切順利。也希望之後各位能有一些當之無愧的休息與假期。祝各位夏日愉快，期待不久後再與各位交流。謝謝。

Thank you. This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。您現在可以掛線。