Huntsman Corp (HUN) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to Huntsman's third-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

各位好，歡迎參加亨斯邁公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）提醒各位，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Ivan Marcuse, Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Development. Thank you. You may begin.

現在，我榮幸地向大家介紹主持人伊凡·馬庫斯，他是投資者關係和企業發展副總裁。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Donna. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Huntsman's third-quarter 2025 earnings call. Joining us on the call today are Peter Huntsman, Chairman, CEO and President; and Phil Lister, Executive Vice President and CFO.

謝謝你，唐娜。各位早安。歡迎參加亨斯邁公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。今天參加電話會議的有董事長、執行長兼總裁彼得·亨茨曼，以及執行副總裁兼財務長菲爾·利斯特。

Yesterday, November 6, 2025, we released our earnings for the third quarter 2025 via press release and posted to our website, huntsman.com. We also posted a set of slides and detailed commentary discussed in the third quarter of 2025 on our website. Peter Huntsman will provide some opening comments shortly, and we will then move into the question-and-answer session for the remainder of the call.

昨天，也就是2025年11月6日，我們透過新聞稿發布了2025年第三季的收益報告，並發佈在我們的網站huntsman.com上。我們也在網站上發布了一組幻燈片和詳細的評論，討論了2025年第三季的情況。Peter Huntsman 稍後將作開場白，之後我們將進入問答環節，直至通話結束。

During this call, let me remind you that we may make statements about our projections or expectations for the future. All such statements are future-looking statement and while they reflect our current expectations, they involve risks and uncertainties and are not guarantees of future performance. You should review our filings with the SEC for more information regarding the risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from the projections or expectations. We do not plan on publicly updating or revising any forward-looking statements during the quarter.

在本次通話中，我想提醒各位，我們可能會對未來做出一些預測或預期。所有此類聲明均為前瞻性聲明，雖然它們反映了我們目前的預期，但其中涉及風險和不確定性，並不能保證未來的績效。您應該查閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以了解更多可能導致實際結果與預測或預期結果有重大差異的風險因素資訊。本季度我們不打算公開更新或修改任何前瞻性聲明。

We will also refer to non-GAAP financial measures, such as adjusted EBITDA, adjusted net income or loss, and free cash flow. You can find reconciliations for the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures in our earnings release, which has been posted to our website.

我們也會參考非GAAP財務指標，例如調整後的EBITDA、調整後的淨收入或虧損以及自由現金流。您可以在我們的獲利報告中找到最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的調整表，該報告已發佈在我們的網站上。

I'll now turn the call over to Peter Huntsman.

現在我將把電話交給彼得‧亨茨曼。

Ivan, thank you very much, and thank you for all of those taking the time to join us this morning. Before getting to our Q&A, I'd like to take a few minutes and speak about present market conditions. First of these is the change in our dividend distribution. Every quarter, our Board of Directors deliberates and spends considerable time discussing this matter. We take into consideration a number of factors in determining what should be paid and what should be preserved.

伊万，非常感謝你，也感謝今天早上抽出時間參加我們節目的各位。在進入問答環節之前，我想花幾分鐘時間談談當前的市場狀況。首先是股利分配方式的改變。每個季度，我們的董事會都會對此事進行審議，並花費大量時間討論此事。我們在決定哪些東西該付錢、哪些東西應該保留時，會考慮許多因素。

Our industry faces three challenges that in their duration and magnitude are unprecedented. First, we see the US economy, the effects of several years of decades high inflation and the rising of interest in mortgage rates. This has put enormous pressure on consumer durables and home building. In particular, fewer and smaller homes are being built and consumers are spending less money on large durable items.

我們的產業面臨三大挑戰，其持續時間和規模都是前所未有的。首先，我們看到美國經濟，以及數年甚至數十年高通膨和抵押貸款利率上升的影響。這給耐用消費品和房屋建築業帶來了巨大的壓力。尤其值得注意的是，新建房屋數量減少，房屋面積縮小，消費者在大件耐久財上的支出也減少了。

The second is the lack of consumer confidence and spending in China. While at the same time, the country has built out their manufacturing capacity that is not being absorbed domestically and in many cases are flooding markets that struggle to absorb their own domestic production and increased imports. The third of these challenges is the deindustrialization of Europe. Between burdensome bureaucracies and regulations, high business and climate-related taxes and uncompetitive energy and raw material costs, Europe is not attracting innovation, growth, or investment. In fact, in the second half of 2025, we're likely to see more industrial closures than we have seen in the first half.

第二點是中國消費者信心不足和支出減少。同時，該國已建成產能，但這些產能無法在國內消化，在許多情況下，這些產能正湧入難以消化本國產量和不斷增長的進口產品的市場。第三個挑戰是歐洲的去工業化。由於官僚機構繁重、監管不力、商業和氣候相關稅收高昂、能源和原材料成本缺乏競爭力，歐洲無法吸引創新、成長或投資。事實上，2025 年下半年，我們可能會看到比上半年更多的工業企業倒閉。

We believe that the US and China economies will recover to more stable conditions as trade tensions ease, interest rates drop, and consumer confidence in spending returns. Europe will see more of its manufacturing leave unless they change a number of policies very quickly. As industry shuts, it will be relocated to the US, Asia, or the Middle East. As these capacities relocate, we will see these markets stabilize as the remaining European companies adjust the new supply chains and perhaps a more consolidated industry.

我們認為，隨著貿易緊張局勢緩和、利率下降以及消費者消費信心恢復，美國和中國經濟將恢復到更穩定的狀態。除非歐洲迅速改變一系列政策，否則將有更多的製造業企業外遷。隨著產業停擺，它將被轉移到美國、亞洲或中東。隨著這些產能的轉移，我們將看到這些市場趨於穩定，因為剩餘的歐洲公司將調整新的供應鏈，或許還會出現一個更整合的產業。

Aside from simply waiting for better times, what will Huntsman continue to do. We will continue to calibrate our cost structure to the market realities that we're seeing. We are on track to completing our previously announced $100 million cost reduction program. This includes the elimination or relocation of over 600 positions and the closure of seven sites, mostly in Europe. These efforts will continue through 2026, and we're well on track to meet and likely exceed these targeted savings of $100 million.

除了等待更好的時機，亨茨曼還會繼續做什麼？我們將繼續根據我們所看到的市場實際情況調整成本結構。我們正按計畫完成先前宣布的1億美元成本削減計畫。這包括裁減或重新安置 600 多個職位，以及關閉七個站點，其中大部分位於歐洲。這些努力將持續到 2026 年，我們預計將實現甚至超過 1 億美元的節省目標。

In addition to cost and asset footprint, our priority has been to manage our cash consistent with a prolonged downturn. We delivered $200 million of operating cash this quarter, and our year-to-date free cash flow is over $100 million. We moved early and aggressively on working capital this year, and I believe we made the right call to do so. We're also looking at more energy-intensive raw materials and exploring ways wherein we can source these supplies from other regions with more competitive costs. Europe will continue to be a vital market for our company, areas such as aerospace, automotive, adhesives, and electronics will not only be profitable, but growing markets for Huntsman.

除了成本和資產規模之外，我們的首要任務是管理好現金流，以應對長期的經濟低迷。本季我們實現了 2 億美元的營運現金流，年初至今的自由現金流已超過 1 億美元。今年我們很早就積極採取措施改善營運資金狀況，我相信我們這樣做是正確的。我們也正在關注高能耗原材料，並探索如何以更具競爭力的成本從其他地區採購這些原材料。歐洲將繼續是我們公司的重要市場，航空航太、汽車、黏合劑和電子等領域不僅有利可圖，而且對亨斯邁來說也是不斷成長的市場。

However, we need to continue to look at our supply chains and source the most profitable raw materials. An example of this is our recent closure of our maleic facility in Moers, Germany. We will continue to support our maleic customers in Europe, but we will do so from the US, where we can make maleic cheaper and deliver it at higher margins. We'll continue to look at our urethanes, amines, and epoxy supply chains and assess how we can avoid Europe's uncompetitive cost structure.

但是，我們需要繼續審視我們的供應鏈，並尋找利潤最高的原料。例如，我們最近關閉了位於德國莫爾斯的馬來酸工廠。我們將繼續為歐洲的馬來酸客戶提供支持，但我們將從美國進行支持，因為在美國我們可以以更低的成本生產馬來酸，並以更高的利潤率交付。我們將繼續審視我們的聚氨酯、胺類和環氧樹脂供應鏈，並評估如何避免歐洲不具競爭力的成本結構。

These include working within our own company as well as working with other industry players. We will continue to work with other manufacturers to maximize our capacities and competitiveness on the products we produce and supply globally. This includes exploring opportunities for consolidations, rationalizing capacities and other value-enhancing combinations. I believe that our actions will create further value. Not all of them will happen, but we will continue to explore every chance we have.

這包括在公司內部開展工作，以及與其他行業參與者合作。我們將繼續與其他製造商合作，最大限度地提高我們在全球生產和供應產品的產能和競爭力。這包括探索整合機會、合理化產能以及其他提升價值的組合方式。我相信我們的行動將創造更多價值。並非所有設想都會實現，但我們會繼續探索每一個機會。

We also need to make sure that we protect our balance sheet for the long term. Our latest dividend levels were set when market conditions were far different than they are today. Our priority was to return cash and value to shareholders. This priority has not changed. It has taken into -- but it is taken into consideration current market conditions.

我們也需要確保長期保護好我們的資產負債表。我們最近一次設定股利水準時，市場狀況與現在截然不同。我們的首要任務是為股東創造現金和價值。這項優先事項沒有改變。它已考慮——但它確實考慮到了當前的市場狀況。

These are not times when we ought to be taking on more debt to pay a higher dividend. After careful deliberation, we believe that we have found the right balance to reward our shareholders, preserve our balance sheet and invest in the future. As soon as market conditions warrant, consideration for an increase in our dividend payments will take place. Believe me, we'll be doing this as quickly as possible and I hope this happens sooner rather than later. Lastly, as we look into the fourth quarter, it is simply too early to make forecasts for 2026.

現在不是我們透過增加債務來支付更高股息的時候。經過慎重考慮，我們認為已經找到了合適的平衡點，既能回報股東，又能維持資產負債表的穩健，還能投資未來。一旦市場條件允許，我們將考慮提高股息支付。請相信我，我們會盡快處理此事，我希望這件事能盡快發生。最後，展望第四季度，現在對 2026 年做出預測還為時過早。

Most supply chains are very tight, visibility is short term as it usually is this time of year. I believe in the fourth quarter that we will see typical seasonality, coupled with a higher-than-average destocking. Earlier this year, some companies bought into the idea that Europe were somehow rebounding and demand was picking up. This has clearly not been the case. We may see conditions in the fourth quarter, especially in Europe, where prices drop as companies cut push to cut inventories and manage working capital.

大多數供應鏈都非常緊張，可見度也比較短暫，這在每年的這個時候都很常見。我認為第四季我們將看到典型的季節性波動，同時庫存減少幅度將高於平均值。今年早些時候，一些公司認為歐洲經濟正在復甦，需求正在回升。顯然，事實並非如此。我們可能會在第四季度看到這種情況，尤其是在歐洲，由於企業努力削減庫存和管理營運資金，價格將會下降。

During the fourth quarter, we will continue to prioritize cash over EBITDA, especially in our Performance Products division. Our objective is to finish this year with inventories that allow us to produce to meet demand. As we end the third consecutive year of challenging markets, in all three regions of Asia, North America and Europe. I believe that we're taking the tough steps today to assure our future is one where we are able to recover quickly as market conditions allow us to do so. We will continue to explore every means and structure possible aside from simply waiting and doing nothing.

第四季度，我們將繼續優先考慮現金流量而非 EBITDA，尤其是在我們的高效能產品部門。我們的目標是在今年年底前保持充足的庫存，以便能夠生產出滿足市場需求的產品。在亞洲、北美和歐洲這三大地區，我們連續第三年面臨充滿挑戰的市場環境。我相信，我們今天採取的艱難措施是為了確保未來我們能夠在市場條件允許的情況下迅速復甦。我們將繼續探索一切可能的途徑和方法，而不是僅僅等待和無所作為。

With that, operator, we'll open the line up for questions.

操作員，接下來我們將開放提問環節。

(Operator Instructions) Mike Harrison, Seaport Research Partners.

（操作說明）Mike Harrison，Seaport Research Partners。

I just wanted to ask about the cash flow and the inventory reduction actions that you took during Q3. It sounds like your expectation is there's still some further inventory reduction that will happen in Q4 as you continue to focus on cash generation.

我只是想詢問一下您在第三季採取的現金流和庫存削減措施。聽起來您預計在第四季度，隨著您繼續專注於現金流，庫存還會進一步減少。

My question is, though, what do these inventory reduction actions mean for your utilization rates, particularly in Q3, where you're running a little bit slower and will that continue into Q4? I guess my question is, are you running slower now so that you can run harder potentially in the first and second quarter of next year?

不過，我的問題是，這些減少庫存的措施對你們的利用率意味著什麼，尤其是在第三季度，你們的營運速度有所放緩，這種情況會持續到第四季嗎？我想問的是，你現在跑得慢是為了在明年第一季和第二季跑得更快嗎？

We look at them on a -- literally on a product-by-product and division-by-division basis. So if you think where we'll be in the first quarter, we're typically starting to build inventories as you go into the second quarter, which is typically the beginning of your construction housing season, obviously, that's weather-related and it's also demand related. People are looking to relocate into the summer months. And so you see a lot of buying activity pick up at the time. So typically, across the entire company, you will see inventories rise during that first quarter going into the second quarter in preparation of demand.

我們會逐一產品、逐一部門地進行分析。所以，如果你考慮我們第一季的情況，我們通常會在進入第二季時開始累積庫存，而第二季通常是房屋建造旺季的開始，這顯然與天氣有關，也與需求有關。人們希望在夏季搬遷。因此，你會看到當時的購買活動大幅增加。因此，通常情況下，整個公司的庫存會在第一季到第二季之間增加，以應對即將到來的需求。

Now the demand doesn't necessarily build, and I think 2025 was a good example of that. We really saw a very muted construction market, particularly in North America versus expectations. And you then see that partway through the second quarter, you've got too much inventory. Some of our products such as your MDI materials, not -- this doesn't apply to every single grade of product we produce. But to the more commoditized materials in MDI, polymeric and so forth, you can typically reduce that inventory by selling it into other markets into other applications even into export markets and so forth.

現在需求不一定會成長，我認為 2025 年就是一個很好的例子。與預期相比，我們看到建築市場，尤其是北美地區的建築市場，表現非常低迷。然後你會發現，到了第二季中期，庫存就太多了。我們的某些產品，例如您的 MDI 材料，並非如此——這並不適用於我們生產的每種等級的產品。但對於 MDI、聚合物等更商品化的材料，通常可以透過將其銷售到其他市場、其他應用領域，甚至出口市場等方式來減少庫存。

I'm not going to say that's easy and I'm not going to say you can do that fairly quickly. But you typically can take care of your inventories through proper management usually within a quarter or two. Other products like your performance products, where you're producing amines that are going into catalysts, you're producing maleic anhydride, it goes into unsaturated polyetheresin. You've built up your inventory early in the year and sometimes it will take you longer to reduce those inventories, fewer customers, fewer outlets and so forth to get rid of that inventory. And so typically that will happen through the third, and in our case with Performance Products, through the fourth quarter.

我不會說這很容易，也不會說你能很快做到。但通常情況下，透過妥善管理，你可以在一兩個季度內解決庫存問題。其他產品，例如你們的性能產品，你們生產的胺類物質用於製造催化劑，你們生產的馬來酸酐用於製造不飽和聚醚樹脂。年初的時候，你累積了不少庫存，有時候，你需要更長的時間才能減少這些庫存，例如客戶減少、銷售點減少等等，才能把這些庫存處理掉。因此，這種情況通常會持續到第三季度，而對於我們高性能產品部門來說，則會持續到第四季度。

Now you've got a decision to make, you asked a very good question that you reduce your production rates thereby lowering your inventory so that you can meet production demand as you get into early 2026. I believe that we have an opportunity to see a modest recovery starting in 2026, but I'm not willing to bet our inventories on it. So let's go into 2026 with our inventories, I would say, lower than average where we can calibrate our production to the actual demand as we see the demand. I think probably by and large. I can't speak for our competitors, but I -- probably as an industry, after 2025, and the muted market -- the muted recovery that we saw in early 2025, at the beginning of the construction season, I think that people will probably be cautious going into 2026.

現在你面臨一個決定，你問了一個非常好的問題，那就是降低生產力，從而降低庫存，以便在 2026 年初滿足生產需求。我認為我們有機會從 2026 年開始看到經濟溫和復甦，但我並不願意把我們的庫存押注於此。所以，讓我們展望 2026 年，我認為我們的庫存將低於平均水平，這樣我們就可以根據實際需求調整生產。我覺得大體上應該可以。我不能代表我們的競爭對手發言，但就整個行業而言，在 2025 年之後，以及在 2025 年初建築季開始時出現的疲軟市場復甦之後，我認為人們在進入 2026 年時可能會更加謹慎。

And therefore, I think that's why you're seeing a lot of companies right now focused on the working capital, focused on inventory reduction and perhaps putting their free cash flow and cash generation ahead of EBITDA. In the case of our MDI business, I believe our inventory levels were not perfect. I believe that they are in the area where we want them. Performance Products, I believe they'll be there by the end of the year. and barring any huge change in demand one way or the other.

因此，我認為這就是為什麼你現在看到很多公司都專注於營運資本，專注於減少庫存，甚至將自由現金流和現金產生放在 EBITDA 之前的原因。就我們的 MDI 業務而言，我認為我們的庫存水準並不完美。我相信他們已經到了我們希望他們待的區域。性能產品方面，我相信到年底前它們就能上市，除非市場需求發生巨大變化。

And so yes, in the fourth quarter, I think that as we look at Performance Products, in particular, not very encouraged when I look at the EBITDA outlook versus the fourth quarter. But I do look at it as somewhat of a one-off because we are going to sacrifice some EBITDA to get rid of what I think is the last of that inventory. Sorry, that was a very long-winded answer, but a very good question.

所以，是的，在第四季度，當我們審視性能產品時，特別是當我看到第四季度的 EBITDA 前景時，我並不太樂觀。但我認為這在某種程度上是一次性的，因為我們將犧牲一些 EBITDA 來清除我認為是最後一點庫存。抱歉，我的回答有點冗長，但這是一個很好的問題。

Patrick Cunningham, Citibank.

派崔克‧坎寧安，花旗銀行。

Peter, in your opening remarks and over the past couple of years, you talked about the continued collapse of European manufacturing, and you've already been quite proactive here with positioning your own footprint. I guess my question is, is there a risk that enough capacity leaves that it no longer becomes attractive for suppliers to support some of these industrial clusters if there's enough link in the chain broken and perhaps maybe down the road, you need to evaluate your Rotterdam asset as well. So maybe just directionally comment on how you're thinking about the asset footprint for Huntsman specifically, and that sort of tail risk to the industry? Or what's left of it?

彼得，你在開場白中以及過去幾年都談到了歐洲製造業的持續衰落，而你已經非常積極地在這裡佈局自己的業務。我想問的是，如果供應鏈中足夠多的環節斷裂，導致產能流失，供應商是否就不再願意支持這些產業群聚了？或許從長遠來看，你們也需要評估一下你們在鹿特丹的資產。那麼，您能否就您如何看待亨斯邁公司的資產規模，以及這種尾部風險對整個行業的影響，並給出一些方向性的評論？或者說，它還剩下什麼？

Yes. And Patrick, what I don't want to do right now is try to predict too much of the future, but it is something that we keep a very close eye on. We feel very confident that our first-tier suppliers that are giving us chlorine, giving us CO2, giving us our raw materials and so forth in Rotterdam, in particular, our ability to import in benzene and so forth. We feel that, that is a very good position by what we see today. Now do I have inside information on what's going on?

是的。派崔克，我現在不想過多預測未來，但我們會密切關注此事。我們對位於鹿特丹的一級供應商（他們為我們提供氯氣、二氧化碳、原料等等）非常有信心，特別是我們進口苯等的能力。我們認為，就目前的情況來看，這是一個非常好的立場。現在我是否掌握了有關此事的內部消息？

I don't, but we communicate with those first-line customers. You do bring up a very good point though, what happens if a supplier of a supplier of a supplier, you can take that back two or three steps and you start looking at the refining infrastructure or you start looking at the pipeline infrastructure, is there enough product going in to run the pipeline system. That may be something that is not only out of our control, but out of the control of our suppliers and so forth. I don't foresee that happening in the near term. Is it something that could happen two or three years down the road?

我不直接參與，但我們會與第一線客戶溝通。不過，你確實提出了一個很好的觀點，如果供應商的供應商的供應商，你可以把這個概念往前推兩三步，然後開始審視煉油基礎設施或管道基礎設施，那麼是否有足夠的產品流入管道系統來運作呢？這不僅可能超出我們的控制範圍，也可能超出我們的供應商等各方的控制範圍。我預計這種情況近期內不會發生。這件事有可能在兩三年後發生嗎？

I'd be surprised to see it get that bad where you start seeing a collapse of these clusters. I genuinely think there would be such an economic calamity that the government would probably step in on some of these things, but I'm just surmising. I try to get into the head of a European beer craft not only very nebulous, but dangerous. So we won't try to do that, but I feel that at least for the foreseeable future for us for the coming years and so forth. Rotterdam is going to continue to be a low-cost European site.

如果情況惡化到出現這些星系團崩潰的地步，我會感到很驚訝。我真的認為如果出現如此嚴重的經濟災難，政府可能會介入其中的一些事情，但這只是我的猜測。我試著去了解歐洲精釀啤酒的理念，但這不僅非常模糊，而且很危險。所以我們不會嘗試這樣做，但我覺得至少在可預見的未來，在未來幾年等等時間裡，對我們來說都是如此。鹿特丹將繼續保持其作為歐洲低成本旅遊目的地的地位。

It's our -- feeds into our second largest MDI market. And I think that we have some work there to get that site more competitive on a global basis. We continue to work with our suppliers, with our partners, with our customers and looking at anything and everything that we can do on that side. But yes, that's -- you bring a very good point. It's something that we are in continuous discussions with our suppliers.

這是我們的－為我們第二大MDI市場提供原料。我認為我們還需要做一些工作，才能使該網站在全球範圍內更具競爭力。我們將繼續與供應商、合作夥伴和客戶合作，並研究我們在這方面可以做的一切。但是，是的，你提出的觀點非常好。我們一直在與供應商就此問題進行持續討論。

John Roberts, Mizuho Securities.

約翰·羅伯茨，瑞穗證券。

Do you think the increased US MDI imports from Europe is a structural change, and that's here to stay?

你認為美國從歐洲進口的MDI數量增加是一種結構性變化，而且這種變化會持續下去嗎？

I hope not. I can't imagine that it makes any economic sense, but I'm just speaking if looking at our economics and is that a good deployment of capital. But John, you bring up a very good point. As we look at the US market of around 1,200 kilotons, you've got roughly 75,000 kilotons coming in from Europe.

我希望不是。我無法想像這在經濟上有什麼意義，但我只是從我們的經濟角度來看，這是否是一種好的資本配置方式。但是約翰，你提出的觀點非常好。當我們觀察美國市場約 1,200 千噸的碳排放需求時，約有 75,000 千噸的碳排放需求來自歐洲。

You've got roughly another 150,000 kilotons that will be coming on this next year. And I would remind you that it's usually not when the kilotons come into the market when you feel the impact of it, it's usually the year before, right? When people are out pre-marketing, preselling, pre -- cutting the market to try to find a place for all of that inventory as it comes in. And you still have a lot of Asian material that's going to Canada and Latin America that is displacing US exports from the United States producers that are typically exporting to Canada in those markets as well.

明年大約還會有 15 萬千噸的放射性物質釋放。我還要提醒各位，通常情況下，不是當千噸級的放射性物質進入市場時，你才會感受到它的影響，通常是在前一年，對吧？當人們外出進行預行銷、預售、預切市場，試圖為所有到貨的庫存找到銷路。而且，還有許多亞洲產品出口到加拿大和拉丁美洲，這正在取代美國生產商在這些市場的出口，而這些生產商通常也向加拿大出口產品。

So I think that it's -- there's going to be moments of opportunism where people maybe have too much inventory, can't move it in Europe and so forth. But fundamentally, the economics of moving from a higher-cost region, paying tariffs, taxes, transportation, logistics, working capital tie-up and so forth into another market. I'm not sure that's a good long-term decision, but that's not my decision to make. Well it is for Huntsman. We don't do that.

所以我認為——總是會有一些投機取巧的時刻，例如人們可能庫存過多，在歐洲無法售出等等。但從根本上來說，從高成本地區遷移到另一個市場，需要支付關稅、稅收、運輸、物流、營運資金佔用等費用，這其中存在著經濟問題。我不確定這是否是一個好的長遠決定，但這並非我能決定的。嗯，對獵人來說是這樣的。我們不那樣做。

Yes. The Chinese gasoline market is now declining. So is your MTBE JV production in China having to be exported? Or how do you see that as the Chinese gasoline demand continues to decline?

是的。中國汽油市場目前正處於下滑階段。那麼，你們在中國合資生產的MTBE產品是否需要出口？或者，您如何看待中國汽油需求持續下降的趨勢？

That MTV is both an export and a domestic market. That's a very competitive site. That's a world-scale side, and it's one that we're going to take advantage of both domestic and export opportunities and wherever the best opportunity is, that's where we'll be.

MTV既面向出口市場，也面向國內市場。那是一個競爭非常激烈的網站。這是世界級的一面，我們將充分利用國內和出口機會，哪裡有最好的機會，我們就去哪裡。

Aleksey Yefremov, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Aleksey Yefremov，KeyBanc 資本市場。

Peter, can you just maybe overall describe the US MDI market. You just made some comments, but what about demand side, overall US MDI inventories and how customers are sort of reacting to the tariffs and change in imports picture? Are your conversations with customers changing at all?

Peter，你能否大致描述一下美國MDI市場的狀況？您剛才發表了一些評論，但是需求方面呢？美國整體MDI庫存如何？客戶對關稅和進口情勢變化有何反應？你與客戶的溝通方式是否有改變？

No, not a great deal. I think that there may have been a lot of hyperbole so forth that went into the tariffs that you somehow were going to foresee or see these great changes and so forth. But like I said, the US is a 1,200 ton market. And you look at the amount of tonnage that is being added on in the next 12 months, kind of 150,000 kts from one producer.

不，並沒有太多。我認為關稅政策中可能存在著許多誇張的言辭，例如你似乎能夠預見或看到這些巨大的變化等等。但正如我所說，美國市場規模為 1200 噸。看看未來 12 個月新增的噸位，光是一個生產商就新增了 15 萬噸。

Predominantly, another European producer bringing this last year about 75,000 metric tons. You look at the amount of product that was exported to Latin America and Canada that now is kind of set back into the US. And you can kind of see where you kind of take last year's fourth quarter, this year's first quarter was something like 100 kilotons that came in from China, and you more than offset that, right, with new additions and imports coming in from Europe. So I'm not sure that there's really a big net change in production. I'm not going to say that it has no impact.

去年，另一家歐洲生產商主要帶來了約 75,000 公噸的產量。你看看那些曾經出口到拉丁美洲和加拿大的產品，現在又多少被退回到美國了。你可以看出，去年第四季的情況是，今年第一季從中國進口了大約 10 萬噸，而從歐洲的新增進口量和進口量完全抵消了這一損失。所以我不太確定產量是否真的發生了很大的淨變化。我不會說它沒有影響。

I'm sure it does on those, particularly having to pay 513% anti-dumping tariffs. But it's -- for us, we've seen this last year, year-over-year, about a 6% growth in MDI. That's something that we've gradually, through over the last 12 months, have gotten back, largely gotten back market share that frankly, we lost and we probably took too aggressive of a price stand and trying to keep prices stable or even rising in a market that surely needs it. So for us, it continues to be a sluggish market. And I think overall, there will be pockets of growth within MDI US, but until housing, fundamentally, until housing recovers, I don't think you're going to see the sort of demand that we've seen historically.

我相信確實如此，尤其是要繳納 513% 的反傾銷稅。但對我們來說，去年我們看到，MDI 年比成長了約 6%。在過去的 12 個月裡，我們已經逐步恢復了市場份額，基本上奪回了先前失去的份額。坦白說，我們可能採取了過於激進的價格策略，試圖在一個肯定需要穩定價格的市場中保持價格穩定甚至上漲。所以對我們來說，市場依然低迷。我認為總體而言，MDI US 內部會有一些成長點，但除非房屋市場從根本上復甦，否則我認為你不會看到我們歷史上所看到的那種需求。

And as a follow-up, you talked about automotive wins in Advanced Materials and also some progress on the power side, aerospace, do you think AM could qualitatively be decently stronger next year?

作為後續問題，您談到了先進材料在汽車領域的成功，以及在動力和航空航天領域的一些進展，您認為明年增材製造的品質會大幅提升嗎？

Well, on the -- you brought up three very good markets there. On the electronics side, I'd remind you, that's about 40% of our earnings. And that's probably the most boring unknown segment in our business. I'd say boring because it's just a year ago or in 2018 the business made up about 20%. Today is 40%.

嗯，關於──你剛才提到的三個非常好的市場。我想提醒各位，電子產品業務約占我們營收的 40%。而這或許是我們業務中最枯燥乏味、鮮為人知的領域。我覺得很無聊，因為就在一年前，或者說在 2018 年，這項業務只佔了約 20%。今天是40%。

So the business for us has doubled over the last seven years. So that's -- we've seen phenomenal growth at a time when a lot of businesses have been flat to down during that period. And I think that over the course of the next decade, electronics and power is going to continue to grow. So that's a very important end of our business. And I'm not sure that if the economy turns around and picks up, that we're going to see big growth in that area, we would in automotive or aerospace.

因此，在過去七年裡，我們的業務量翻了一番。所以，在許多企業同期業績持平甚至下滑的情況下，我們卻實現了驚人的成長。我認為在未來十年裡，電子產品和電力產業將繼續發展壯大。所以，這是我們業務中非常重要的一環。我不確定如果經濟好轉復甦，我們是否會看到該領域大幅成長，就像汽車或航空航太領域一樣。

And sorry, but all three of these are kind of different. Aerospace will not be about consumer spending or consumer demand. Aerospace will be largely around Airbus and Boeing's ability to build more planes, and to deliver that which they have built. So you look at all the publicity recently on the 777X, a platform that has Huntsman material in it. I had the opportunity to visit the Boeing site of was it three years ago?

抱歉，但這三者之間其實不完全相同。航空航太業的發展與消費者支出或消費者需求無關。航空航太業的未來很大程度上取決於空中巴士和波音公司製造更多飛機以及交付已製造飛機的能力。所以你看看最近關於 777X 的所有宣傳，這是一個搭載了 Huntsman 材料的平台。我大概三年前有機會參觀了波音公司的網站？

And you've got -- you had XXX jets three years ago that were sitting there waiting for delivery. Now the FAA says those planes probably won't be delivered until 2027. So planes have been built and sitting there for five years. And so it's not just a question of planes being built. It's a question of planes being built and delivered.

而你們三年前就有了XXX架噴射機，它們當時就停在那裡等著交付。美國聯邦航空管理局表示，這些飛機可能要到 2027 年才能交付。飛機都造好了，卻在那裡閒置了五年。所以，這不只是飛機製造的問題。問題在於飛機的製造和交付。

It's two completely different things. So if the aerospace industry can increase build rate and delivery, that will be great. Electronics, that's largely going to be around the ability for infrastructure to be built, infrastructure to be modernized. If you start bringing in more renewables, more wind and solar and so forth, that's going to be powered. On the automotive side, that's going to be more consumer-driven.

這是兩件完全不同的事。因此，如果航空航太業能夠提高生產速度和交貨速度，那就太好了。電子技術方面，主要取決於基礎設施的建造和現代化能力。如果你開始引入更多再生能源，例如風能、太陽能等等，那就會有電力供應。在汽車領域，這將更多地受到消費者的驅動。

But still, we're seeing there that the automobile producers are rewarding lightweight, that's energy conservation, both for EVs and ICE. And they're also rewarding innovation and new chemistries. And that's a lot of battery materials and plotting materials and so forth, strength materials that are going into the EV. So Advanced Materials, in all three of those sectors. As you see, the build rates improve in Aerospace, see the continuation of the build-out on the power grid, you see consumers' demand continue to improve, hopefully, in the automobile area you ought to see all of those things.

但是，我們仍然看到汽車製造商正在獎勵輕量化設計，也就是節能設計，無論是電動車還是內燃機汽車都是如此。他們也鼓勵創新和新的化學方法。這其中包含大量的電池材料、繪圖材料等等，以及電動車的強度材料。因此，先進材料在上述三個領域都有應用。正如你所看到的，航空航太領域的建設速度正在提高，電網建設也在持續推進，消費者的需求也不斷增長，希望在汽車領域也能看到所有這些變化。

Some will be consumer driven. Others will be infrastructure-driven and others will just be the ability for manufacturing to get it right.

有些將由消費者驅動。有些問題將由基礎設施驅動，有些問題則取決於製造業能否做好。

Vincent Andrews, Morgan Stanley.

文森安德魯斯，摩根士丹利。

Peter, it sounds like in the EU, you're already hearing from customers that they're going to be doing some early shutdowns for the holidays and so forth. Is that correct that you're already pretty well aware of this? Or are you just really projecting it?

彼得，聽起來歐盟那邊，你已經從客戶那裡聽說，他們會在假期前提前關門歇業等等。也就是說，你已經很清楚這一點了？還是你只是在投射自己的想法？

I think that we're projecting it at this point, I have not heard even anecdotally that we're hearing automobile segment customers or anybody else. We'll see normal seasonality in the fourth quarter. I think that where you might see more of it is perhaps on the chemical side, not on our customer side, but those of us that have to build inventories before the construction season or do you think that if the economy is going to be turning in the second quarter, there's a lot of people who are saying would be the case in Germany, we better start building inventory to match that demand that's coming down the pipe. Typically, you don't see that with OEMs in the automotive industry and so forth. They're not building big inventories and so forth for seasonality.

我認為我們目前只是在預測，我什至沒有聽到任何來自汽車行業客戶或其他任何人的消息。第四季將出現正常的季節性波動。我認為，這種情況可能會更多地出現在化學產業，而不是我們的客戶群中，而是那些需要在施工旺季之前建立庫存的人。或者，您是否認為，如果經濟將在第二季度出現改善（許多人說德國的情況就是如此），我們最好開始建立庫存以滿足即將到來的需求。通常情況下，你不會在汽車行業的原始設備製造商（OEM）等企業中看到這種情況。他們不會為了應對季節性需求而大量囤積庫存等等。

So when I talked about companies perhaps building too much inventory and diminishing some of that in the fourth quarter in pricing and so forth. I would say that will apply more to the chemical industry than our downstream customers.

所以，當我談到公司可能囤積了過多的庫存，並在第四季度通過定價等方式減少部分庫存時，我說。我認為這一點對化學工業的影響比對我們的下游客戶的影響更大。

Josh Spector, UBS.

瑞銀集團的 Josh Spector。

I was wondering if you could talk about kind of how you size the dividend cut, what's the framing that you used to set that? And I guess if I throw out some rough numbers, I'm not trying to get to 2026 guidance or anything, but if we say you get back to $400 million in EBITDA, similar to '24, 50% conversion of free cash flow, minus $175 million in CapEx, you're at $25 million in free cash flow. You're still not covering the reduced dividend. So I don't know if the assumption is how much cash you feel comfortable burning until things improve or if you have a different view around what earnings will be three, six months a year from now?

我想請您談談您是如何決定股利削減幅度的，您是如何設定這個幅度的？我想，如果我粗略地估算一下，我並不是想達到 2026 年的業績指引，但如果我們假設 EBITDA 恢復到 4 億美元，與 2024 年類似，自由現金流轉換率達到 50%，減去 1.75 億美元的資本支出，那麼自由現金流就是 2500 萬美元。你仍然沒有彌補減少後的股息。所以我不知道你的假設是指在情況好轉之前你覺得可以承受的現金支出額度，還是你對未來三到六個月或一年後的收益有不同的看法？

Yes, Josh, I think the Board kind of long discussion about the amount of the dividend cut, 65% from our perspective, gets us to about $60 million of cash requirements for next year for the dividend. That's down by about $115 million of cash frees that up. The $60 million, I think we're comfortable with that level. When you look at how we've been generating free cash flow, we're $105 million on a year-to-date basis. We're closer to $200 million on an LCM basis.

是的，喬希，我認為董事會就股息削減幅度（從我們的角度來看是 65%）進行了相當長時間的討論，這將使我們明年的股息現金需求達到約 6000 萬美元。這相當於減少了約 1.15 億美元的現金，釋放了這部分資金。我認為6000萬美元這個金額是可以接受的。從我們產生自由現金流的情況來看，今年迄今為止，我們已經產生了 1.05 億美元。以成本商計算，我們更接近 2 億美元。

And we've been aggressive on working capital, quite frankly, whether that's on accounts payable, whether that's on inventory and we'll continue to do that as we progress through 2026, there's always opportunities to drive better cash flow. So I think that $60 million is a very reasonable level that our company feels that it can cover as you move forward.

坦白說，我們在營運資金方面一直採取積極措施，無論是應付帳款還是庫存，我們都將繼續這樣做，直到 2026 年，總有機會改善現金流。所以我認為 6000 萬美元是一個非常合理的金額，我們公司認為可以承擔這筆費用，以支持你們未來的發展。

Okay. I guess maybe a quick follow-up on the same lines then, though. If EBITDA improves, I guess, like I outlined with that, wouldn't there be an increase in working capital involved in that? Or do you think you can grow earnings and not have to invest in working capital, if there's more wood to chop there?

好的。我想或許可以就此做一個簡短的後續跟進。如果 EBITDA 改善，我想，就像我之前提到的那樣，這難道不會增加營運資本嗎？或者，如果還有更多木材可供砍伐，你認為可以在不投資營運資金的情況下增加收入嗎？

I think there's always opportunities in working capital, whether that's on the receivable side, quite frankly, and also some more on the accounts payable side. We've driven our supply chain financing program this year. We've agreed extended terms with suppliers. That's going to flow through into next year as well. But there's always opportunities on working capital, and we'll continue to be aggressive as a company.

我認為營運資金方面總有機會，坦白說，無論是應收帳款方面，還是應付帳款方面。今年我們大力推進了供應鏈融資計畫。我們已與供應商達成延長付款期限的協議。這種情況也會延續到明年。但營運資金方面總有機會，我們公司也將繼續保持積極進取的態度。

And I think we've demonstrated that through the first nine months of this year.

我認為我們在今年前九個月的表現已經證明了這一點。

Mike Sison, Wells Fargo.

麥克西森，富國銀行。

So for MDI, the fourth quarter polyurethanes, the decline in EBITDA was a little bit more than I thought. Where do you think industry operating rates are going to sort of settle down in the fourth quarter? And then given the cost savings that you're generating for the segment, is there a lower operating rate you can get to, to kind of restore some of the earnings power for this segment?

所以對於 MDI（第四季聚氨酯業務）而言，EBITDA 的下降幅度比我預想的還要大。你認為第四季產業營運率會穩定在什麼水平？鑑於您為該業務部門節省了成本，是否有可能降低營運率，以恢復該業務部門的部分獲利能力？

Well, I -- again, there's not a whole lot of information as to where the industry is running. I would say that the industry -- it looks like the demand versus production, it's somewhere probably in the low 80s, and I'd say that's probably across all three regions. I'd say all three regions, the US, Europe, and China. That doesn't mean that everybody is running at 80%. You've got some that are running full out.

嗯，我——再說一遍，關於這個行業的現狀，並沒有太多資訊。我認為，就產業而言——從需求與生產的角度來看，大概在 80 左右，而且我認為這三個地區的情況可能都差不多。我認為美國、歐洲和中國這三個地區都算在內。但這並不意味著每個人都發揮了 80% 的潛力。有些機器正在全力運轉。

And somehow the notion that the more we sell, the more we make and others that are trying to calibrate more around demand, and it just varies company by company. So I wouldn't want to represent what competitors are doing when I say that the operating rates are in the low 80s. But I believe that's where we are as an industry. You are going to see improvements in polyurethanes by the cost-saving initiatives. There's no doubt about it.

不知何故，有一種觀點認為，我們賣得越多，賺得就越多，而其他人則試圖根據需求進行調整，但這因公司而異。所以，當我說營運率在 80% 左右時，我不想代表競爭對手的做法。但我認為，這就是我們整個產業目前的現狀。透過節省成本的舉措，聚氨酯的性能將會提升。這點毋庸置疑。

But the singularly best thing that could happen to polyethylene is -- polyurethanes is to get prices up and demand needs to return. We simply are not going to cut our way back to normalized margins in this business without a fundamental change in the market. That could come from an improvement in the demand structure to come from consolidation in the market. They're still small uncompetitive facilities, I believe, that operate in this industry that typically would shut down when market conditions get to this point which may or may not happen. And so as you look at what it's going to take to turn urethanes back to a more normalized basis, it's going to take more than just cost cutting.

但對聚乙烯來說，最好的事情莫過於——聚氨酯的價格上漲，需求回升。如果市場沒有根本性的變化，我們根本不可能透過削減成本來恢復到正常的利潤率。這可能源自於市場整合所帶來的需求結構改善。我認為，它們仍然是規模較小、缺乏競爭力的企業，在這個行業中，當市場條件發展到這種程度時，它們通常會倒閉，而這種情況是否會發生還不得而知。因此，要使聚氨酯恢復到更正常的水平，需要的不僅僅是削減成本。

But that -- right now, that's what we can control, and that's where a large percentage of our time and focus is.

但是，現在，這是我們能夠控制的，也是我們投入大量時間和精力的地方。

Got it. And then as a quick follow-up. A lot of companies has suggested they're not banking or even see much improvement in the environment next year. So it looks like you have a plus 80% or so in cost savings for 2026. Is there anything else that drives EBITDA upside in '26 versus '25 in an environment where demand could remain soft?

知道了。然後，作為快速後續。許多公司表示，他們並不看好明年的經濟環境，甚至認為明年的經濟環境不會有太大改善。所以看來你們在 2026 年可以節省約 80% 的成本。在需求可能持續疲軟的環境下，除了上述因素外，還有什麼因素會推動 2026 年 EBITDA 相對於 2025 年的成長？

Sure. I mean in our performance products, we've got new capacities that we continue to introduce into the market on ultrapure cleaning solutions and so forth. We've got more capacity to produce catalysts and a mean -- higher end of means that have come on in this year that will be -- that are working right now with customers to be qualified and so forth, we'll see $5 million, $10 million sort of opportunities of improvement there are -- we have, I think, a very aggressive business turnaround that's taking place specifically in our home -- our spray foam business, insulation business, we'll see benefits from in '26. I would also -- we've also got some wins that we've had this year in contracts in the automotive segments and polyurethanes and Advanced materials, we will see a lot more of the output of those. Those are not cost-related.

當然。我的意思是，在我們的高性能產品方面，我們不斷推出新的產品，例如超純清潔解決方案等等。我們有了更大的催化劑生產能力，今年已經出現了一些更高端的生產手段，這些手段目前正在與客戶合作進行資格認證等等，我們將看到 500 萬到 1000 萬美元的改進機會——我認為，我們正在進行非常積極的業務轉型，尤其是在我們的噴塗泡沫業務和保溫業務方面，我們將在 2026 年看到收益。我還要補充一點——我們今年在汽車領域、聚氨酯和先進材料領域也取得了一些合約上的成功，我們將看到這些領域的更多成果。這些都與成本無關。

Those are new market applications and so forth. So I would just say that in 2026, look, I can't think back at an error when I look back at 2021, all the way through all the up cycles from 1988 all the way through to 2021. The five or six major up cycles, nobody anticipated or saw the upswing 6, 9, 12 months before it actually happened. What may be the catalyst, what may be the consolidation, what may be the purpose for change? I wouldn't write 2026 off as being another bland year.

這些都是新的市場應用等等。所以我想說的是，到了 2026 年，你看，當我回顧 2021 年，回顧從 1988 年到 2021 年的所有上升週期時，我想不出有什麼錯誤。在過去的五到六次主要上漲週期中，沒有人預料到或看到上漲行情會在實際發生前 6、9、12 個月出現。變革的催化劑是什麼？變革的鞏固因素是什麼？變革的目的是什麼？我不會把2026年簡單地看成是另一個平淡無奇的年份。

There will be opportunities in it. And we might have to be a little more creative than we otherwise would be and looking as to where those opportunities and how they'll be created.

其中蘊藏著機會。我們可能需要比平常更有創意一些，去尋找機會以及如何創造這些機會。

I just want to comment there might be incremental savings next year. We've articulated that at $40 million as we progress through the $100 million savings target.

我只想提一句，明年可能會有一些節省。我們已經明確表示，在實現 1 億美元節約目標的過程中，我們將節省 4,000 萬美元。

Jeff Zekauskas, JPMorgan.

Jeff Zekauskas，摩根大通。

Thanks very much. In the old days, you used to talk about polymeric MDI and monomeric MDI and MDI that was a little bit more specialized and there being a margin differential between the two. What happened to that margin differential between the two and why?

非常感謝。過去，人們常說聚合型 MDI 和單體型 MDI，還有一些更專業的 MDI，兩者之間有一定的差異。兩者之間的利潤差異發生了什麼變化？原因是什麼？

I think that when we look at the market 10 years ago -- 5, 10 years ago, I think it probably was more of a bifurcated categorization. If somebody was coming out of a system house if it was being formulated for a customer and so forth. I think that what we see today is more around, Jeff, a spectrum rather than an either/or. And I think that there still is a value-added component to our polyurethanes business. There's still applications that are very exciting in automotive and home construction and insulation applications where you'll have in the automotive sector, you have some of our most commoditized products.

我認為，如果我們回顧 10 年前——或 5 年前、10 年前——的市場，我認為它可能更像是兩極分化的分類。如果有人來自一家系統整合商，或者它是為客戶配製的等等。傑夫，我認為我們今天看到的更多的是一個光譜，而不是非此即彼的關係。我認為我們的聚氨酯業務仍然具有增值潛力。在汽車、房屋建築和保溫應用領域，仍然有一些非常令人興奮的應用，而在汽車領域，我們擁有一些最商品化的產品。

You also have some of our higher-end materials. And so I would just say that what we're seeing today, perhaps more so than in the past, it's not an either/or, it's kind of all of the above, and it's a spectrum rather than just a two-sided belt.

您也可以使用我們的一些高端材料。因此，我想說的是，我們今天看到的，或許比過去更甚，不是非此即彼，而是以上所有情況的綜合，它是一個光譜，而不是一條非此即彼的帶狀區域。

Okay. I guess everybody looks at the data a little differently. But I would have thought that China imported into the United States, maybe 250,000 tons of MDI and that's pretty much gone to 0. And so -- and you talked about maybe 75,000 tons coming in from Europe. And whatever capacity may come on is later.

好的。我想每個人看待數據的方式都略有不同。但我認為中國向美國進口了大約 25 萬噸 MDI，而現在這個數字幾乎已經降到了 0。所以——你剛才提到可能有75,000噸貨物從歐洲運來。至於後續可能增加的產能，那是之後的事了。

So shouldn't conditions be ripe for the market to be a little bit tighter at the beginning of 2026?

那麼，到 2026 年初，市場是否應該趨於緊張？

Yes. I would say that if demand were picking up and if those were the factors going into it, Jeff, I definitely would agree with you. The simple fact of the matter is that people that are bringing on 150,000 tons in 2026, isn't that far into the future or out right now marketing that material, they're out -- with prices, and we're seeing posture being taken efforts to move that extra volume. So as I said earlier, it's not when the volume is produced, it's when you're out 6 to 12 months in advance trying to move that product. So there is a home when you finally are able to start up the facility.

是的。傑夫，如果需求確實在成長，而這些因素確實影響了需求，那我絕對同意你的看法。事實很簡單，那些計劃在 2026 年引進 15 萬噸產品的人，並不是在考慮遙遠的未來，也不是現在就開始銷售這些材料，他們已經開始銷售了——價格方面，我們看到他們正在採取各種措施來銷售這額外的數量。正如我之前所說，關鍵不在於何時生產產品，而是何時提早 6 到 12 個月開始銷售這些產品。所以，當你最終能夠啟動該設施時，就會有一個家。

Yeah, the 75,000 tons coming in from Europe right now, just personally. Is it from (inaudible) it doesn't bring anything in from Europe. That's kind of a surprise. I wouldn't have anticipated people doing that, but it's happening. And again, I think that we're probably underestimating a little bit how much was exported to Canada and Latin America and how much of that's been picked up by product that otherwise will be coming to the United States.

是的，就我個人而言，目前從歐洲運來的75,000噸貨物就是個很好的例子。它來自（聽不清楚）嗎？它不會從歐洲進口任何東西。這有點出乎我的意料。我沒想到會有人這樣做，但它確實發生了。而且，我認為我們可能低估了出口到加拿大和拉丁美洲的數量，以及其中有多少產品原本會進入美國市場。

It's just merely going a little bit further north or a little bit further south. So yes, a lot of that is happening. And so I look at where we were kind of in the fourth and first quarter of 100,000 kilotons coming in from China. We're basically down to the third quarter was 10 kilotons coming from China. So we're definitely seeing a large drop off.

只不過是稍微往北走一點或往南走一點而已。是的，很多這樣的事情正在發生。所以我回顧了一下，在第四季和第一季度，我們從中國進口了 10 萬千噸二氧化碳。基本上，第三季有 10 千噸來自中國。所以，我們確實看到了大幅下降。

But we're also seeing a pickup in other areas.

但我們也看到其他領域出現了復甦跡象。

Kevin McCarthy, Vertical Research Partners.

Kevin McCarthy，Vertical Research Partners。

Peter, if I look at your Performance Products volumes, they've been running down close to double digits in recent quarters, but I think that, that is distorted by your plant closure in Germany. And so I guess my question would be, can you comment on kind of the underlying market demand as you see it for maleic and for amines and I guess related to that, if we take into account the new products that you talked about in Performance Products, do you see an opportunity to stabilize or even grow volumes in that business next year?

Peter，如果我看一下你的性能產品銷量，最近幾季銷量一直在下降，降幅接近兩位數，但我認為這是因為你在德國的工廠關閉而造成的。所以我想問的是，您能否就您認為馬來酸和胺類的潛在市場需求發表一下看法？另外，考慮到您在性能產品中提到的新產品，您認為明年該業務的銷售有機會穩定甚至成長嗎？

Yes. I think that we do. Maleic is a very important product for us in the US, and you're right. When you talk about the maleic volume, when you look at the net reduction that we saw in sales, maleic in Moers is about 50% of that reduction that we've seen. So a big chunk of that is Moers, and that needs to be factored in.

是的。我認為我們確實如此。Maleic 對我們美國市場來說是一款非常重要的產品，你說得對。談到馬來酸的銷量，看看我們在銷售方面看到的淨減少量，莫爾斯的馬來酸銷量大約占我們所看到的減少量的 50%。所以其中很大一部分是莫爾斯，這一點需要考慮。

And part of that is also going to be the DJ going into ag. We've seen a little bit weaker ag this year, and we've seen some pretty competitive market conditions in a means all around an industry in construction and so forth. It just isn't growing that much. And so as we look at that going into 2026, again, our maleic anhydride were the -- I believe we're the low-cost producer and the largest producer in North America. We've got protective tariffs there of 50% to 60% depending on the whims of a certain President.

其中一部分原因也是這位DJ要涉足農業領域。今年農業情勢略顯疲軟，建築等產業的市場競爭也相當激烈。它成長速度並不快。因此，展望 2026 年，我相信我們的馬來酸酐仍然是北美成本最低、規模最大的生產商。我們在那裡徵收了 50% 到 60% 的保護性關稅，具體稅率取決於某位總統的心血來潮。

And so that -- it feels like we've got some good protection there with a very good cost base and a very good manufacturing competitive base. So maleic is going to continue to be a strong market for us in North America, and we will be taking excess material to feed our European market. And as we look at that, we'd expect over the next year, that's probably going to be a gradual improvement. Our EAs, ethyleneamines, are going to continue to be, I think, flat to positive. And as we look at our -- the rest of our performance amines, that's probably going to be pretty flat.

因此，感覺我們擁有了良好的保障，成本基礎和製造業競爭力都非常強。因此，馬來酸將繼續成為我們在北美的強勁市場，我們將把多餘的原料運往歐洲市場。從目前的情況來看，我們預計在未來一年內，情況可能會逐步改善。我認為，我們的乙烯胺類化合物（EA）價格將繼續保持平穩或上漲。當我們審視我們其餘的性能胺類化合物時，它們的表現可能相當平淡。

And just to reiterate, Kevin, if you take Performance Products, you minus 10 and you take out the Moers closure, you're relatively flat year-on-year. That's the way to think about it.

凱文，我再重申一遍，如果你把 Performance Products 的業績減去 10%，再去掉 Moers 的關閉，那麼你的業績與去年同期基本持平。就該這麼想。

Hassan Ahmed, Alembic Global Advisors.

Hassan Ahmed，Alembic Global Advisors。

Look, a question around US MDI volume, specifically for you guys. I mean, of course, 2025 continues to be -- has been and continues to be pretty -- sort of weak demand wise here, but leaving sort of broader macro demand aside, I mean, it certainly was an abnormal year in terms of trade flows out of and into the US for MDI. And you yourself talked about maybe losing some share, being a little more sort of holding on to pricing and the like.

各位，我有個關於美國MDI銷售的問題想問你們。我的意思是，當然，2025 年的需求仍然疲軟——過去是，現在仍然是——但撇開更廣泛的宏觀需求不談，就 MDI 在美國的貿易流量而言，這無疑是異常的一年。你自己也說過可能會失去一些市場份額，在定價等方面會更謹慎一些。

Then, of course, back in Q2, you guys talked about how typically sequentially in Q2, there tends to be an 8% to 10% volume uptick in MDI. And you guys only saw maybe like 3% or something. I'd like to think maybe that was one wall stuffing the channels. So where I'm going with this question is, let's even assume the macro doesn't change that much in 2026, but trade patterns do normalize, how much of a volume increment in US MDI would you see on the back of that?

當然，回到第二季度，你們也討論過，通常在第二季度，MDI 的銷量會較上季成長 8% 到 10%。你們可能只看到了3%左右。我倒覺得那可能是其中一面牆堵住了通道。所以我想問的是，即使假設 2026 年宏觀經濟沒有太大變化，但貿易模式確實正常化，那麼在此背景下，美國 MDI 的交易量將會增加多少？

Well, that's a good question. A lot of that will depend on customer sentiment and pricing and where we can get the best value for our production. I'd remind you that in the third quarter, we were up 6% year-on-year and in North America in the US markets and up 4% on the rest when you look at the entire division. So -- and I wouldn't say that, that's just one particular area.

嗯，這確實是個好問題。許多因素將取決於客戶情緒和定價，以及我們在哪裡能獲得最佳的生產價值。我想提醒各位，第三季度，我們同比增長了 6%，北美（美國）市場同比增長了 6%，而整個部門在其他地區的同比增長了 4%。所以——我不會說那隻是某個特定領域。

I think that, that was very strategic and surgical within areas where we can achieve the most value for our product. And so I think that we're very much going to have the same posture in 2026. I think we want to be smart with our volumes, but we will be aggressive in maintaining our volumes and getting prices through as quickly as possible. Beyond that, Hassan, in 2026, I just -- I'll just get in trouble if I try to forecast the particular performance of the division.

我認為，這種做法非常具有策略性和精準性，讓我們能夠在能夠為我們的產品創造最大價值的領域內進行精準定位。所以我認為，到 2026 年，我們很可能會保持同樣的立場。我認為我們應該謹慎控制銷量，但同時也會積極維持銷量，並儘快將價格調整到位。除此之外，哈桑，到了 2026 年，我——如果我試圖預測該部門的具體表現，我就會惹上麻煩。

That makes sense, Peter. And if I could sort of just talk about near-term US pricing as well. Of course, you mentioned incremental capacity coming online in the US market, which will be later in the year.

彼得，你說得有道理。如果我能再談談近期美國的價格走勢就更好了。當然，您提到了美國市場即將新增的產能，這將在今年稍後實現。

But from the sounds of it, it seems trade normalizing, somewhat normalizing in the early part of next year. Antidumping duties, tariffs and the like, I mean, there is at least a potential for some pricing tailwinds in the US and MDI. Is that correct?

但聽起來，貿易似乎正在逐步正常化，明年年初可能會有所改善。反傾銷稅、關稅等等，我的意思是，至少在美國和MDI市場存在一些價格利多因素。是這樣嗎？

Yes. Hassan, I think you're absolutely right. And we're in a little bit of the old joke that when the bear starts to chase us, I just have to outrun you, I don't have to outrun the bear. And so when I look at the polymeric MDI pricing today in the US, and again, I'm talking about polymer. This is the bottom end, most commoditized, you're seeing about a $200 a ton difference between US and China.

是的。哈桑，我覺得你說得完全正確。我們現在有點像是在玩一個老梗：當熊開始追我們的時候，我只需要跑得比你快，而不需要跑得比熊快。所以，當我查看當​​今美國聚合物 MDI 的價格時，我再次強調，我指的是聚合物。這是最底層、最商品化的領域，你會發現美國和中國之間每噸價格相差約 200 美元。

And you're seeing another $200 difference between China and Europe. Now that's not on an absolute basis, that is going to be on average basis. But you are seeing some stability, more stability in the US than you're seeing in China and Europe.

而且，中國和歐洲之間還有200美元的差價。這並不是絕對值，而是平均值。但你會看到美國局勢相對穩定，比中國和歐洲穩定得多。

And so I would just say that, again, I'm not saying I'm happy with where the margins are in the US, but pricing in the US is holding up better than the other two regions. And when you look at our manufacturing costs, the US in China, about $100 a part a ton from each other, China being lower. So yes, I think there's opportunity.

所以我想再次強調，我並不是說我對美國的利潤率感到滿意，但美國的定價比其他兩個地區好得多。當你查看我們的製造成本時，你會發現美國和中國的成本相差約每噸零件100美元，中國的成本更低。所以，是的，我認為這裡存在著機會。

What we need again more than anything else is just demand. And I don't think that we'll really start to see that picture until the end of February, early part of March, and we start to see the direction that proverbial construction demand and home building and seasonality, Chinese New Year's will be over by then. And what do we see on a global basis that starts to take place at that time.

我們最需要的莫過於需求。我認為我們真正開始看到這種景像要等到二月底三月初，屆時建築需求、房屋建造和季節性因素（春節假期）都將結束，我們才能開始看到這種趨勢的發展方向。那麼，在全球範圍內，我們從那時開始看到了什麼？

Salvator Tiano, Bank of America.

薩爾瓦托·蒂亞諾，美國銀行。

Yes. Thank you. we haven't been seeing much about the Spray Foam business for the past few quarters. So I want to get kind of an update on how are things going there? Is it a business that's EBITDA positive at this point?

是的。謝謝。過去幾季我們很少看到噴塗泡沫業務的消息。所以我想了解那邊的情況進展如何？目前這家公司的 EBITDA 為正嗎？

And when it comes both to that, to the spray foam business, but also insulation demand, have you seen any change from the -- I guess, in the summer when we replaced part of the IRA bill. I think there was one of the key credits that was canceled there. Has this affected the spray foam demand?

就噴塗泡沫業務以及保溫材料需求而言，您是否看到與——我想，在夏天我們替換了 IRA 法案的一部分時——相比，有什麼變化？我認為那裡有一個關鍵的演職人員名單被取消了。這是否影響了噴塗泡沫的需求？

Yes. I don't think that we've seen any impact from the credit. We do with our spray foam business, it is a contributor to the business. It is up year-over-year, and we are the US leader and we are -- we do have a share gain that has taken place there.

是的。我認為我們還沒有看到信貸政策的任何影響。我們的噴塗泡沫業務確實為公司做出了貢獻。年比成長，我們是美國市場的領導者，而且——我們在美國確實取得了市場份額的成長。

And so as we look at the markets, the markets are down, but our business in the third quarter was up 7% from a year ago. And that's a business that you just don't necessarily go out and buy market share. You've got to have the service, you've got to have the quality, you've got to have the reliability, the consistency and so I think it's a series of factors, but we're seeing that business for us continues to gradually improve, and I give the management team there are some very high marks.

因此，當我們觀察市場時，雖然市場整體下跌，但我們第三季的業務比去年同期成長了 7%。在這個行業，你不一定要出去買市佔率。你必須要有服務，你必須要有質量，你必須要有可靠性和一致性，所以我認為這是一系列因素共同作用的結果，但我們看到我們的業務正在逐步改善，我對管理團隊的表現給予非常高的評價。

Great. And as a follow-up, I wanted to ask, in your prepared remarks, you mentioned about the need for restructuring, consolidation and you brought up actually. I think it was the phrase that you would work with your partners and with other industrial partners and manufacturers. So beyond Huntsman just taking on own actions like closing the Moers site. Could you actually -- do you see an opportunity?

偉大的。作為後續問題，我想問一下，您在準備好的演講稿中提到了重組、整合的必要性，並且實際上也提到了這一點。我認為那句話的意思是，你要與你的合作夥伴以及其他工業合作夥伴和製造商合作。所以，除了亨茨曼公司採取關閉莫爾斯工廠等自身行動之外。你真的能看出其中的機會嗎？

Or would you pursue consolidation through M&A for some businesses, for example?

或者，例如，你會透過併購來整合某些業務嗎？

I'm not sure about through M&A right now. I'm not sure I'd want to stretch the balance sheet on something like that. But I do see -- I mean if you look at the cost curve on a number of our products, it does vary quite dramatically in various parts of the world. In some cases, we are a market leader. In other cases, frankly, others are market leader.

我現在還不確定是否可以透過併購來實現。我不確定是否願意為了這樣的事情而過度擴張資產負債表。但我確實看到——我的意思是，如果你看我們許多產品的成本曲線，你會發現它在世界各地確實存在相當大的差異。在某些情況下，我們是市場領導者。坦白說，在其他情況下，市場領導者是其他公司。

And we've got to be able to work and look at calibrating our volumes and calibrating our supply chains and that may mean that we're going to be looking to companies in the past that have been a competitor and see if where we can work together to try to get around some of the energy issues that are playing in certain parts of the world. But I would just say that's a very broad offense that has been ongoing and continues to be ongoing, and I'm not going to get into particulars on divisions or products and so forth and so on. But there is opportunity and it does need to be followed through.

我們必須能夠努力調整產量和供應鏈，這可能意味著我們將與過去曾是競爭對手的公司合作，看看我們是否可以共同努力，以解決世界某些地區存在的一些能源問題。但我只想說，這是一起範圍非常廣的違法行為，而且已經持續了一段時間，我不會深入討論具體部門或產品等等。但機會是存在的，而且需要抓住它。

David Begleiter, Deutsche Bank.

大衛‧貝格萊特，德意志銀行。

Peter, you mentioned that Chinese MDI imports into Europe have been pretty steady. Can you discuss the potential for a more robust tariffs and/or duties in Europe? I believe there's an EU litigation into MDI imports into the region. So that would be helpful.

Peter，你提到中國向歐洲進口的MDI一直相當穩定。您能否談談在歐洲實施更強有力的關稅和/或稅收的可能性？我相信歐盟正在就MDI進口到該地區提起訴訟。那會很有幫助。

Yeah. I don't foresee the Europeans taking any real material action on that if it's anything like what they've done over the last couple of years. It's not going to happen in my lifetime. But it'd be great to see them do something, but I'm not counting on that happening.

是的。如果情況和過去幾年歐洲人的做法類似，我不認為他們會就此採取任何實質行動。在我有生之年，這事不會發生。當然，如果他們能做點什麼就太好了，但我並不指望這種情況會發生。

Sorry to hear that, but so be it.

聽到這個消息我很遺憾，但事情就是這樣。

So am I.

我也是。

The MDI -- Any change in your view of long-term MDI growth rates as we exit this downturn?

MDI－隨著我們走出此次經濟低迷期，您對MDI長期成長率的看法是否有所改變？

Sure. I think that as we look at the biggest drivers around MDI, it continues to be a product that displaces other materials. When you look at the large volume side of it, it's going to continue to be construction and homebuilding and so forth, that's going to be the principal driver. But by and large, this is going to be a business that is going to grow equal to the rate of GDP plus usually about another 0.5% or about half of GDP in product replacement. So I'd say it's a business I would expect over the cycle to grow at about 1.5 times the rate of GDP via economic growth and also product substitution replacement.

當然。我認為，當我們審視 MDI 的最大驅動因素時，它仍然是取代其他材料的產品。從大宗交易的角度來看，建築和房屋建造等行業仍將是主要驅動力。但總的來說，這個產業的成長率將與 GDP 成長率持平，通常會因為產品更換而額外成長約 0.5% 或 GDP 的一半左右。所以我認為，在這個週期內，透過經濟成長和產品替代，該產業的成長率預計約為 GDP 的 1.5 倍。

Arun Viswanathan, RBC Capital Markets.

Arun Viswanathan，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

If we look at the second-half EBITDA in '25, it looks like the implied kind of midpoint is around $130 million. Maybe if you annualize that, you get to mid-200s. From there, is there a way you can kind of frame maybe the cost reductions, restocking or kind of downtime impact that you're seeing this year and maybe some other building blocks, if anything?

如果我們看一下 2025 年下半年的 EBITDA，看起來隱含的中點值約為 1.3 億美元。如果以年計算，或許能達到 200 多萬。從這個角度來看，您能否大致闡述一下您今年看到的成本削減、補貨或停機影響，以及其他一些構成要素？

Yeah, Arun. So you're right, if you take the midpoint of our guidance, which is $25 million to $50 million and you take the $94 million and multiply that out. Savings, we've said from our savings program, incremental '26 over '25, about $40 million. And that's a program, as we say that we're comfortable or confident of achieving those target rates or exceeding them.

是的，阿倫。所以你是對的，如果你取我們指導值的中點，也就是 2500 萬美元到 5000 萬美元，然後用 9400 萬美元乘以這個數字。據我們所說，透過我們的儲蓄計劃，2026 年比 2025 年增加了約 4,000 萬美元。正如我們所說，這是一個我們有信心或有把握達到甚至超過目標比率的計劃。

Inventory hit this year through the first nine months through getting our inventories down is about $30 million impact on the company. You'll see some more of that impacting the company in the fourth quarter, as Peter has articulated performance products. So theoretically, if you just kept your inventory volumes at the same level next year as this year, then you will obviously get that back year on year from an improvement in EBITDA perspective.

今年前九個月，庫存壓力導致公司損失約 3,000 萬美元，而降低庫存的努力也給公司帶來了不小的影響。第四季度，你會看到這些因素對公司產生更多影響，正如彼得所闡述的，性能產品也是如此。因此，理論上講，如果你明年保持庫存量與今年相同，那麼從 EBITDA 的角度來看，你顯然會逐年收回成本。

Against that, we have had some noncash one-offs. We articulated those in performance products over the last two quarters of about $15 million Notwithstanding the macro, we talked about Advanced Materials. So there's a question earlier about the improvements that we continue to expect to see in aerospace as well as in power as you move through next year. And then obviously, it's around the macro and construction.

除此之外，我們也有一些非現金的一次性收入。在過去兩個季度中，我們在高效能產品領域闡述了約 1500 萬美元的業績。儘管宏觀經濟狀況不佳，我們還是談到了先進材料。前面有人問到，隨著明年的到來，我們預期航空航太和電力領域會繼續取得哪些進展。然後，很顯然，它也與宏觀和結構有關。

Great. And then just as a follow-up, is there anything else you need to do on the footprint. I mean, as you noted, we've gone through significant weakness here for a little while. So maybe is there any rationalization that you'd see that's required at this point? Or is it mainly just kind of waiting for demand to kind of get better?

偉大的。最後，作為後續步驟，您還需要對足跡進行其他任何操作嗎？我的意思是，正如你所指出的，我們最近一段時間經歷了一段相當疲軟的時期。那麼，您認為目前是否需要進行任何合理的解釋呢？或者說，主要是在等待需求好轉？

Well, I mean, we're in the process right now of completing seven site closures that we've recently had and some 600 people that we've either let go or move to lower cost positions such as in -- what we have operating in Poland or Costa Rica or Malaysia. So I -- we're always going to be looking as to where we can source our materials and if that can be done cheaper and more reliably, more profitably through another third party or consolidated to another site, we're going to -- we'll be looking at that continuously. All I can say is, look, if we ever come in the office in the morning, and say, our work is done. There's nothing else we can do with the company here, we failed. So we'll continue to look at those things.

嗯，我的意思是，我們目前正在完成最近關閉的七個站點，大約有 600 人被我們解僱或調到成本更低的崗位，例如我們在波蘭、哥斯達黎加或馬來西亞的營運崗位。所以，我們會一直尋找原料的來源，如果可以透過其他第三方以更便宜、更可靠、更有利可圖的方式採購，或是整合到另一個地點採購，我們就會持續關注這個問題。我只能說，聽著，如果我們早上來到辦公室，說，我們的工作完成了。我們對這家公司已經無能為力了，我們失敗了。所以我們會繼續關注這些問題。

Matthew Blair, TPH.

Matthew Blair，TPH。

Great. The commentary on Aerospace for both Q3 and Q4 is a little bit better than what we were expecting. I think there was a comment that you have adhesive applications for aircraft interiors as a relative bright spot. So my question is, is your content per plane increasing? Or is this just a function of Huntsman capitalizing on overall rise in build rates in the industry?

偉大的。第三季和第四季的航空航天業評論都比我們預期的要好一些。我認為有人評論說，你們在飛機內飾黏合劑應用方面是一個相對的亮點。所以我的問題是，你們每架飛機的飛機上的內容是否在增加？或者這只是亨斯邁利用產業整體建設速度上升趨勢所取得的成果？

So I think that over time, yes, we will be improving our content for playing. We're looking at kind of the traditional structural materials that go into the plane and we're more focused today, I would say, on the interior adhesions and the interior structures and so forth. So those are areas of growth for us. But just bear in mind, when it comes to Aerospace, our contracts are long term in nature. These are qualifications once you're done, they usually go for 10-plus years.

所以我認為隨著時間的推移，是的，我們會不斷改進我們的遊戲內容。我們正在研究飛機中使用的傳統結構材料，可以說，我們今天更關注的是內部黏合和內部結構等等。所以這些都是我們需要提升的領域。但請記住，在航空航太領域，我們的合約都是長期合約。這些都是完成學業後獲得的資格證書，通常有效期超過 10 年。

And you've got -- these are the longest continuous contracts that we have anywhere in the company. So if we say build rate is going to be X and somebody else says it's going to be Y. If it ends up being better than what we say, we will get the business. It's not -- don't -- I mean, look, if we see more production, if we see more deliveries that are taking place more applications, we will be the benefactors of that. And so it's a great end of the business, and it's one that we hope to continue to see the build rate improve and increase.

而且，這些是我們公司所有合約中持續時間最長的。所以如果我們說建造速度將是 X，而其他人說它將是 Y。如果最終結果比我們所說的還要好，我們就能拿下這筆生意。不是——別——我的意思是，你看，如果我們看到產量增加，如果我們看到交付量增加，應用範圍擴大，我們將會從中受益。因此，這是一個非常好的收尾，我們希望看到建造速度繼續提高。

And we will continue to increase our content on a per plane basis.

我們將繼續增加每架飛機的飛機上的內容。

Sounds good. And then the fourth-quarter polyurethanes guidance, does that reflect some benefits from cheaper benzene feedstock costs in the quarter? Or is there a lag that we should be thinking about?

聽起來不錯。那麼，第四季聚氨酯產量預期是否反映了本季苯原料成本降低帶來的一些好處呢？或者是否存在我們應該考慮的滯後現象？

There's a little bit of benefit, Matthew. I think the average for Q3 on benzene in the US was $276 in the third quarter. It's trading today at about $250 million. So it's a little bit of benefit in general as a lag as we move it through cost of production on interest cost of sales. So you've got a little bit of a benefit there.

馬修，這樣做還是有一點好處的。我認為美國第三季苯的平均價格為每盎司 276 美元。該股目前的交易價格約為2.5億美元。因此，從長遠來看，這會帶來一些好處，因為我們將其計入生產成本、利息成本和銷售成本中。所以你還是有點好處的。

Laurence Alexander, Jefferies.

勞倫斯‧亞歷山大，傑富瑞集團。

A couple of structural questions. How are you thinking about the potential impact for North America polyurethane demand from reshoring of appliance production? Have you seen enough announcements for that to be material? And if so, when? And then secondly, when you think about the new five-year plan in China, or at least the first draft and the focus on shifting the chemical industry downstream, do you see that as a net positive or negative for Huntsman?

幾個結構性問題。您如何看待家電生產回流對北美聚氨酯需求的潛在影響？你看到的公告夠多，足以構成實質內容嗎？如果真是如此，那又是什麼時候呢？其次，當您考慮中國新的五年計劃，或至少是第一個草案以及將化學產業轉移到下游的重點時，您認為這對亨斯邁來說是利大於弊還是弊大於利？

And then I guess the third one, if I can just ask a third structural question is, given the outlook of probably several more years of volatility and kind of lack of clarity for the western chemical industry. Do you see a return at least on the corporate side of the fashion for conglomerates that we saw in the 60s and 70s kind of similar turbulent period.

然後，我想問第三個結構性問題，如果可以的話，是考慮到西方化學工業未來幾年可能仍將面臨波動和不明朗的前景。您是否看到至少在企業界，會出現像上世紀六、七十年代那樣，類似的動盪時期裡，企業集團風潮再次興起？

Yes, an excellent question. I think on the first one on the appliances, we're not seeing anything material, and I don't think we'll see anything in '26 of materiality that will be coming in. Traditionally, those have been pretty low volume -- excuse me, low-margin applications. We have the expertise. We have the knowledge.

是的，問得好。我認為關於家用電器方面，我們還沒有看到任何實質的變化，而且我認為在 2026 年也不會看到任何實質的變化。傳統上，這些都是產量很低——抱歉，是利潤很低的應用。我們擁有這方面的專業技術。我們擁有這方面的知識。

We have the relationships if there's money to be made there, we'll be there. But I don't see that much business coming. As far as China going down to the downstream business, look, I think there might be some opportunity for us in some of these areas. We're right now working with a lot of the Chinese producers. Well, I shouldn't say a lot, working with some Chinese producers as to how we can source material in China rather than exporting it into China is their quality improves and so forth.

我們有人脈，如果那裡有利可圖，我們就會去。但我預計不會有很多生意可做。至於中國向下游業務拓展，我認為我們在某些​​領域可能會有一些機會。我們目前正在與許多中國生產商合作。嗯，我不該說太多，我們正在與一些中國生產商合作，探討如何在中國採購原材料，而不是出口到中國，這樣可以提高他們的產品品質等等。

But just because you make the product, as we keep seeing it getting again just because you make the product and you even make it at a competitive price, doesn't mean that the product is qualified. So if somebody jumps into epoxy today, that doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to be getting Boeing's business or Airbus' business in aerospace next year or even in the next five years. So there is an issue around qualification. I would say, too, that as you look at what China describes is downstream in some cases, that means ethylene going to polyethylene, and that's a downstream derivative. I wouldn't read too much of it that it's a big rush into Specialty Chemicals.

但是，僅僅因為你生產了產品，就像我們不斷看到的那樣，僅僅因為你生產了產品，甚至以有競爭力的價格生產，並不意味著該產品是合格的。所以，即使有人今天投身環氧樹脂產業，也不代表他們明年甚至未來五年內就能拿到波音或空中巴士在航空航太領域的業務。所以這裡存在資格方面的問題。我還要補充一點，當你審視中國所描述的某些下游產品時，你會發現，這意味著乙烯轉化為聚乙烯，而聚乙烯是一種下游衍生物。我不認為這是對特種化學品市場的大熱潮。

Specialty Chemicals requires as much of the qualifying and the demand from the customer as it does from the manufacturer. So just because you make it, again, doesn't necessarily mean that there's a home to it. On the conglomerate front, that's something that we've talked about internally quite a bit. Just to see -- as we start to think about companies coming together to be able to look at their cost structure, their supply chains and so forth. It's a possibility that, that might see a resurgence to that, but it's yet to come to any conclusions on that.

特種化學品產業對產品的資格和需求的要求，既包括製造商的要求，也包括客戶的要求。所以，即便你把它做出來了，也不一定代表它就能找到歸宿。在企業集團方面，這是我們內部討論過很多次的話題。只是想看看——當我們開始思考公司如何聯合起來，審視其成本結構、供應鏈等等。這種現像有可能再次出現，但目前尚未得出任何結論。

Frank Mitsch, Fermium Research.

弗蘭克米奇，費米研究中心。

And operator, sorry, we're at the top of the hour. So we'll take this as the last question. And Frank, I wouldn't cut you off even if we were 20 minutes past the top of the hour. So you go right ahead.

接線員，抱歉，現在已經是整點了。那我們就把這個問題當作最後一個問題來回答吧。法蘭克，即使過了整點20分鐘，我也不會掛斷你的電話。那你繼續吧。

Peter, I sincerely appreciate that. I have a four-part question. So listen, I'm looking at the maleic anhydride market in Europe. You shut down Moers, I believe, at the end of the second quarter. So it's been shut down for a while.

彼得，我真心感謝你。我有一個包含四個部分的問題。聽著，我正在關注歐洲的馬來酸酐市場。我相信，你們是在第二季末關閉了 Moers 的大門。所以它已經關閉一段時間了。

Price is there are continuing to drift lower. Now one would have thought that your facility prices would stabilize and the market would balance. What is going on there?

價格目前仍持續走低。人們原本以為，你的設施價格會趨於穩定，市場就會達到平衡。那裡發生了什麼事？

What is going on there is you have a lot of Chinese material that's coming into the market. China about a decade ago, said that they were going to be making this new material. It's some sort of a biodegradable plastic that required maleic as one of the raw materials. I think it's a product called PBAT, P-B-A-T, and they were going to produce billions of pounds of this, so people could get shopping bags by the time they got home, the bag would disintegrate and the air would clean up and we'd all live in a better earth. So that never really materialized surprisingly but you have an enormous amount of excess capacity in China for maleic.

現在的情況是，有很多中國產的材料湧入市場。大約十年前，中國就表示他們將要生產這種新材料。它是一種可生物降解的塑料，其中一種原料是馬來酸。我認為那是一種叫做PBAT的產品，P-B-A-T，他們打算生產數十億磅這種產品，這樣人們到家時就能拿到購物袋，袋子就會分解，空氣就會淨化，我們都會生活在一個更美好的地球上。令人驚訝的是，這種情況並沒有真正發生，但中國在馬來酸方面擁有巨大的過剩產能。

A lot of that is finding a home in Europe. There's also, I would say, would be third party might even be from sanctioned countries and so forth that are finding its way through Russia -- or excuse me, through Turkey going into the European market. And so yes, Europe has a very porous import controls and very high cost structure. So it's a natural home for -- if you want to dump excess material, send it to Europe. I think, again, when I look at the US market where that is our bread and butter is our dominant market.

其中很大一部分工作是在歐洲定居。此外，我認為，第三方產品甚至可能來自受制裁的國家等等，它們正通過俄羅斯——或者抱歉，是透過土耳其——進入歐洲市場。所以，沒錯，歐洲的進口管制非常鬆散，成本結構也非常高。所以，如果你想處理多餘的材料，那就把它送到歐洲去吧，歐洲就是個天然的去處。我認為，當我審視美國市場時，那裡是我們賴以生存的市場，也是我們的主要市場。

Well, I'm not supposed to use the word dominant. I think it's a very good market for us. And so we've got 50%, 60% tariff protection there. and we're a low-cost producer. We've got great raw material situations with butane and a great technology and a great management team in the US. And so we're going to -- we'll take advantage of Europe when the margins are such. But right now, it's -- you're right. It's a terrible market.

嗯，我不該用「主導」這個詞。我認為這對我們來說是一個非常好的市場。因此，我們獲得了50%到60%的關稅保護。而且我們是一家低成本生產商。我們在美國擁有充足的丁烷原料、先進的技術和優秀的管理團隊。所以，當利潤空間如此龐大時，我們將利用歐洲市場。但現在的情況是——你說得對。這是一個糟糕的市場。

Much appreciated on that on the clarifications there. And just lastly, on your slide 12, you talked about continuing to evaluate noncore assets. I assume that there's nothing imminent on the docket there, but I wanted to give you an opportunity to provide more color on what may happen there.

非常感謝您提供的澄清。最後，在第 12 張投影片中，您談到了繼續評估非核心資產。我估計那邊暫時沒有什麼要處理的事情，但我希望給你一個機會，讓你更詳細地描述那裡可能會發生的事情。

No, we're -- look, I don't think that there's anything really material that's happening. We continue to evaluate and look at various parts and pieces. And then until we get to a purchase and sale agreement on something, I wouldn't want to comment on it. But right now, we're mostly just looking at things around the edges, I would say.

不，我們——你看，我不認為有什麼實質的事情正在發生。我們將繼續評估和研究各個部分和組件。在達成買賣協議之前，我不想對此發表評論。但就目前而言，我們主要只是在關註一些邊緣問題。

Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of today's question-and-answer session. We would like to thank you for your participation and interest in Huntsman. You may disconnect your lines or log off the webcast at this time, and enjoy the rest of your day.

女士們、先生們，今天的問答環節到此結束。感謝您對亨斯邁的參與與關注。現在您可以斷開線路或退出網路直播，享受一天剩下的時光。