Gerdau SA (GGB) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

To Gerda's first quarter 2025 results presentation, I'm Mariana Dora, head of investor relations, and joining us today on this conference call are our CEO Gustavo Vernek and CFO Rafael Japur.

我是投資者關係主管 Mariana Dora，負責 Gerda 的 2025 年第一季業績報告，今天參加電話會議的還有我們的執行長 Gustavo Vernek 和財務長 Rafael Japur。

Please note that this call is being simultaneously translated into English, and you can choose your preferred language by clicking on the globe icon at the bottom of your screen. During the presentation, all participants will be in listen-only mode.

請注意，本次通話將同步翻譯成英語，您可以透過點擊螢幕底部的地球圖示來選擇您的首選語言。演示期間，所有參與者將處於只聽模式。

And then next we will initiate the Q&A session. Analysts and investors can join the queue by clicking on the raise hand button. It is worth noting that the forward-looking statements contained here when. Are based on the company's beliefs and assumptions based on information currently available. Forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and are subject to risks and uncertainties. They may occur. I will now turn the floor over to Gustavo to begin their presentation. Gustavo, you may proceed.

接下來我們將開始問答環節。分析師和投資者可以透過點擊舉手按鈕加入排隊。值得注意的是這裡包含的前瞻性陳述。是基於公司根據目前可用資訊所做的信念和假設。前瞻性陳述並不能保證未來的業績，並且受風險和不確定性的影響。它們可能會發生。現在我將請 Gustavo 開始他的演講。古斯塔沃，你可以繼續了。

Thank you, Marty.

謝謝你，馬蒂。

And I would like to say hello to everyone. I hope you're all well, and I certainly appreciate the opportunity to be together for another earnings release. We will briefly comment on the highlights of the quarter.

我想向大家問好。我希望你們都很好，我非常感謝有機會和大家一起發布另一份收益報告。我們將簡要評論本季的亮點。

We will also talk about the outlook for our operations.

我們還將討論我們的營運前景。

And certainly we will dedicate more time to the Q&A session.

當然，我們將在問答環節投入更多時間。

But firstly, I would like to highlight that we ended the first quarter of 2025 with an accident frequency rate of 0.61.

但首先，我想強調的是，2025 年第一季的事故頻率為 0.61。

In the week in which we celebrate World Day for Safety and Health at Work, this results reaffirms our commitment to the health, well-being, and safety of all people.

在我們慶祝世界工作安全與健康日的這一周，這一結果再次證實了我們對所有人的健康、福祉和安全的承諾。

Moreover, we receive IRMA standard recognition, the initiative for responsible mining assurance for our Miguel Brunier iron ore mine located in the municipality of Boru Preto in the state of Mina Gerais. The operation achieved IRMA performance. Level 50 highlighting the company's transparency and commitment to sustainability and business integrity with this Miguel Bernier joins an exclusive group of only 11 mines worldwide that have completed and received this certification which. Is one of the main certifications worldwide. Also in Minoa in March we inaugurated the expansion of hot roll coil production capacity in Oubrenco, increasing the share of flat steel in our portfolio in Brazil and also enabling yourdao to offer a wider range of high value added products to our customers in the domestic market.

此外，我們還獲得了 IRMA 標準認證，這是位於米納吉拉斯州博魯普雷圖市的 Miguel Brunier 鐵礦的負責任採礦保證倡議。此次行動達到了 IRMA 性能。50 級認證凸顯了公司的透明度以及對永續性和商業誠信的承諾，Miguel Bernier 加入了全球僅有 11 個完成並獲得此項認證的礦山的獨家行列。是全球主要認證之一。此外，我們於 3 月在米諾阿啟動了 Oubrenco 熱捲板產能擴建項目，增加了我們在巴西產品組合中的扁平鋼份額，同時也使 yourdao 能夠為國內市場的客戶提供更廣泛的高附加價值產品。

This market continued to be strongly impacted by the influx of imported steel in the 1st 3 months of the year when the penetration rate of imported steel reached 22%, up by almost 3% points when compared to the fourth quarter last year. This data shows that the current quota tariff system remains in.

今年前三個月，該市場持續受到進口鋼材湧入的強烈影響，進口鋼材滲透率達22%，較去年第四季成長近3個百分點。該數據表明，現行的配額關稅制度仍然存在。

Ineffective in defending the Brazilian steel industry, I will now hand over to Jeanpour, who will detail the financial highlights.

由於未能有效捍衛巴西鋼鐵業，我現在將把時間交給 Jeanpour，他將詳細介紹財務亮點。

Thank you, Gustavo. Hello, everyone. It is always a great pleasure to be here with you in our earnings call. In this quarter, adjusted Ebiter totaled BRL2.4 billions, while nut income was 758 million bulls, or $0.37 of a rial per share.

謝謝你，古斯塔沃。大家好。我們很高興能和大家一起參加我們的收益電話會議。本季度，調整後的 Ebiter 總額為 24 億巴西雷亞爾，堅果收入為 7.58 億頭牛，或每股 0.37 裡亞爾。

Our result was stable compared to the last quarter due to the recovery in performance in North America with higher volumes.

由於北美業績回升且銷量增加，我們的業績與上一季相比保持穩定。

And better prices which ended up offsetting the drop we had.

而且價格更優惠，最終抵銷了我們的跌幅。

In the Brazil operation, which in turn was impacted by two factors. The first, A non-recurring event which was the increased costs resulting from the implementation of the new hot rod coal mill in Oro Brannco which impacted the costs of the Brazil operation. And the second point which impacted our profitability in the quarter was an environment of oversupply in the domestic market, especially long steel, and that was mentioned by Gustavo.

在巴西的業務又受到兩個因素的影響。第一，非經常性事項是由於在奧羅布蘭科實施新的熱棒煤磨而導致的成本增加，從而影響了巴西業務的成本。影響我們本季獲利能力的第二個因素是國內市場供應過剩的環境，尤其是長材，這點古斯塔沃也提到了。

So again it's worth highlighting that geographical diversification that we have in our asset portfolio played a key role in providing more resilience to our performance at a time of a little more turbulence, as was the case in this quarter.

因此，再次值得強調的是，我們資產組合中的地域多樣化在為我們的業績提供更多彈性方面發揮了關鍵作用，尤其是在本季度出現一些動蕩的時候。

With regard to CapEx this quarter, we invested BRL1.4 billions this quarter, focusing mainly on our strategic projects.

就本季的資本支出而言，我們本季投資了 14 億雷亞爾，主要集中在我們的策略項目上。

Such as the expansion in flat steels as I just mentioned and our project to expand our mining capability in Miguel Bournier, these projects together have a potential to lead to 1.4 billion bureaus in the midterm as they mature.

例如我剛才提到的扁鋼擴張項目，以及我們在米格爾布爾尼耶擴大採礦能力的項目，這些項目一旦成熟，就有可能在中期帶來 14 億的收益。

As they are fully rolled out and thanks to our solid capital structure we maintained in this quarter our financial metrics of net debt over EBITA within our financial policy, our net debt over EBITDA ratio stood at 0.69 time.

隨著這些計劃的全面實施，並且得益於我們穩固的資本結構，我們在本季度的財務政策中保持了淨債務與 EBITA 之比的財務指標，我們的淨債務與 EBITDA 之比為 0.69 倍。

And this gives us the possibility of continuing to invest in our important strategic projects that we have just mentioned, and also to maintain our commitment to creating value for our shareholders.

這使我們有可能繼續投資於剛才提到的重要策略項目，同時也能維持為股東創造價值的承諾。

If we have, if we include dividends and share buyback in this quarter in 1 Q2025, we have achieved a payout of 74% of our net income.

如果我們在 2025 年第一季包含股利和股票回購，我們已經實現了 74% 的淨收入股利。

More than double that specified in our financial policy. Lastly, I would like to point out that by April 11, we had executed 44% of Gau SA's current share buyback program, investing 444 million barrels, or approximately 1.4% of the outstanding shares of the company. At Metalllogica Gurdau, in turn, we concluded the buyback program.

比我們的財務政策規定的高出一倍以上。最後，我想指出的是，截至4月11日，我們已執行了Gau SA目前股票回購計畫的44%，投資了4.44億桶石油，約佔該公司流通股的1.4%。反過來，我們在 Metalllogica Gurdau 完成了回購計畫。

Investing 56 million barrels. We believe That share buybacks are an excellent way to allocate capital and return value to our shareholders. I'll end here and I'll join Gustavo in the Q&A. Gustavo, over to you.

投資5600萬桶。我們相信股票回購是分配資本和向股東返還價值的絕佳方式。我的發言就到此結束，然後我將與 Gustavo 一起參與問答環節。古斯塔沃，交給你了。

Thank you, Japur.

謝謝你，Japur。

I'd like to comment that throughout the first few months of 2025 we recorded an increase in volumes delivered in North America with the order backlog returning to more than 70 days, which is above the historical level.

我想評論的是，在 2025 年的前幾個月，我們記錄到北美交付量有所增加，訂單積壓時間重新回到 70 多天，高於歷史水準。

We have also seen a positive impact from the import tariffs announced by the US government in terms of our capacity utilization. And we continue to have a healthy market outlook, especially in relation to demand in the non-residential construction sector. However, we are aware of a more uncertain business environment in the coming months in the United States.

我們也看到美國政府宣布的進口關稅對我們的產能利用率產生了正面影響。我們繼續保持健康的市場前景，特別是非住宅建築領域的需求。然而，我們意識到未來幾個月美國的商業環境將更加不確定。

Reflecting and discussing the concerns of some of our clients, in turn, in Brazil, the domestic market, despite a reasonable level of demand from the main consumer sectors, continues to be impacted by the excessive influx of imported steel, as I mentioned at the beginning of this presentation. As a result, a large part of the increase in steel consumption recorded at the start of the year, as was served by imports for the coming quarters, in addition to the expectation of an annual review of the trade defense system known as the quota tariff system. We are cautious about the future performance of steel consuming sectors such as construction and automotive industries, which could be affected by the current high interest rates. Well, I'll stop my initial remarks because like I said, we want to have more time for the Q&A to answer your question. So, Murray, I'll turn the floor back to you so you can moderate the question and answer session.

反映和討論我們一些客戶的擔憂，反過來，在巴西，儘管主要消費領域的需求水平合理，但國內市場仍然受到進口鋼鐵過量湧入的影響，正如我在本次演講開始時提到的那樣。因此，鋼鐵消費量的成長很大一部分是在年初出現的，這得益於未來幾季的進口，此外還有對貿易防禦體系（即配額關稅制度）進行年度審查的預期。我們對建築業和汽車業等鋼鐵消費產業的未來表現持謹慎態度，這些產業可能會受到當前高利率的影響。好吧，我將結束我的初步發言，因為就像我說過的，我們希望有更多的時間進行問答來回答您的問題。那麼，穆雷，我將把發言權交還給你，以便你主持問答環節。

Thank you, Gustavo.

謝謝你，古斯塔沃。

So now we will initiate our Q&A session once your name is prompted for the question, you must activate your microphone and video. Our first question comes from Caio Ribeiro. Hiberro cells side analyst with Bank of America. Welcome ayo.

因此，現在我們將開始問答環節，一旦系統提示您的名字提問，您就必須啟動麥克風和視訊。我們的第一個問題來自 Caio Ribeiro。Hiberro 是美國銀行的分析師。歡迎你。

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for taking my questions. My first question.

大家下午好，感謝你們回答我的問題。我的第一個問題。

Can you hear me? Yes. Yeah, we can hear you well. Yeah, you can hear us, right? Yes, I can.

你聽得到我嗎？是的。是的，我們聽得很清楚。是的，你聽得到我們說話，對嗎？是的，我可以。

Okay, my first question.

好的，我的第一個問題。

It's about cash generation, more specifically related to working capital and CapEx. Now looking at your cash generation this past quarter, which was pressured by increase in working capital and your level of CapEx, I mean cash CapEx, which was high. So for the next coming quarters, could you please comment on the evolution of these two aspects and now.

它與現金產生有關，更具體地說與營運資本和資本支出有關。現在看看你們上個季度的現金產生情況，這是受到營運資本增加和資本支出水準的壓力，我的意思是現金資本支出很高。那麼對於接下來的幾個季度，您能否評論一下這兩個方面的發展？

Looking ahead, I mean, going forward last last year was BRL6.2 billions for CapEx, but Your maintenance CapEx is around half that amount in 2024, and I know that the company is working on some expansion projects in Oobranco, mining areas, etc. My question is how do you think we should look at the recurring CapEx level that you see going forward once all the projects are concluded? And secondly, You refer to your US backlog, which is very high. It is the highest level since 2022. We've seen some price increases already announced for beans and merchand bars with the drop in in scrap, which indicates to a reduction in metal spreads. Could you please comment what kind of margins you anticipate for the US and how do you see the outlook for the second half of the year?

展望未來，我的意思是，去年的資本支出為 62 億巴西雷亞爾，但到 2024 年，您的維護資本支出約為該數額的一半，而且我知道公司正在 Oobranco、採礦區等地開展一些擴建項目。我的問題是，您認為所有專案完成後，我們應該如何看待未來的經常性資本支出水準？其次，您提到了美國的積壓訂單，數量非常多。這是2022年以來的最高水準。我們已經看到一些豆類和商品金條的價格已經上漲，而廢料價格則出現下降，這表明金屬價差有所縮小。您能否評論一下您預計美國的利潤率是多少以及您如何看待今年下半年的前景？

Considering increase in tariffs and also other infrastructure packages in the US.

考慮提高美國關稅以及其他基礎設施計劃。

Thank you. Well, you already started with two very important topics.

謝謝。好吧，您已經開始了兩個非常重要的主題。

Let me first start with the free cash flow outlook, and I will refer to CapEx to begin with and then have we'll conclude with working capital and what we anticipate going forward and then we will answer your question on the backlog part. I mean, CapEx last year and this year, according to your comments is a bit different when compared to CapEx that we had in the past because these CapEx are not intended. Grow shipments in general because they are much more focused on productivity and cost reductions. I think the most significant of them of all in terms of our disbursements for this year and we have this production of $6 billion refers to our investments in the mining sector. We will increase the due cost renco, I mean, next year, and we will be in a position that we never had before. So these investments are directly related to.

首先讓我從自由現金流展望開始，我將首先參考資本支出，然後我們將以營運資本和我們對未來的預期結束，然後我們將回答您關於積壓部分的問題。我的意思是，根據您的評論，去年和今年的資本支出與我們過去的資本支出相比有點不同，因為這些資本支出不是有意為之。總體而言，出貨量有所增加，因為他們更專注於提高生產力和降低成本。我認為其中最重要的是我們今年的支出，我們有 60 億美元的產值，指的是我們在採礦業的投資。我的意思是，明年我們將增加到期成本回收，我們將處於前所未有的地位。因此這些投資與之直接相關。

Short and midterm competitiveness.

短期和中期競爭力。

I would say, therefore that the quality of CapEx is different when compared to what we had last year.

因此我想說，與去年相比，今年的資本支出品質有所不同。

So now for 2025, we will not reduce.

所以到2025年，我們不會減少。

Disperse spends or investments that we presented in our last meeting, but going forward and if you look at the possibility of reviewing the alternatives for capital allocation, I believe that it's very coherent on our side to.

分散我們在上次會議中提出的支出或投資，但展望未來，如果您考慮審查資本配置替代方案的可能性，我相信我們的做法非常一致。

To review Our CapEx reimbursement so that it will be lower going forward. Therefore, we are not yet ready to tell you where we will make that reduction in what geographies or anything like that, but I can probably anticipate that in the next coming years we will probably have a lower CapEx disbursement when compared to what we have. Now and lower than what we anticipated for the coming years. I mean there might be other things to be considered at the light of this information that has to do with the decision we made to cancel our investment in Mexico that was something that was in our pipeline. I don't think I mentioned that investment in the past, but this has been officially canceled.

審查我們的資本支出補償，以便日後降低其補償金額。因此，我們還沒有準備好告訴您我們將在哪些地區進行削減或諸如此類的事情，但我可以預見，在未來幾年，與現在相比，我們的資本支出可能會更低。現在和未來幾年的預期都低於這個水準。我的意思是，根據這些信息，可能還需要考慮其他事情，這些事情與我們取消正在籌劃的墨西哥投資的決定有關。我想我以前沒有提到過那項投資，但這項投資已被正式取消。

In terms of our possible investments in the coming years, not due to the current administration in the US, but mostly due to everything we've, we have experienced in terms of this global. Defense, I think that there will be a very deep reconfiguration of the automotive platform in the next few years. I mean, in what countries these auto parts will be produced, who will supply to whom, whether Mexico will still remain. A robust platform to to provide auto parts to the US or whether this industry will be relocated from Mexico into the US in the coming years. There is a lot of uncertainty in the market right now, but we are certain that there will be a reconfiguration. Therefore, it doesn't make sense for us to invest in Mexico.

就我們未來幾年可能進行的投資而言，這並不是因為美國現任政府，而主要是因為我們在全球所經歷的一切。國防，我認為未來幾年汽車平台將會發生非常深度的重新配置。我是說這些汽車零件會在哪些國家生產，誰會供應給誰，墨西哥是否還會保留。一個為美國提供汽車零件的強大平台，或者未來幾年該行業是否會從墨西哥轉移到美國。目前市場存在許多不確定性，但我們確信市場將進行重新配置。因此，我們在墨西哥投資是沒有意義的。

Bearing in mind that we still have some capacity to be used in the US therefore we are canceling that Mexico investment so possible disbursements will not take place. Another important issue, yo, is that we're just waiting to see what will happen in May whether the federal government will react or not, or whether the government will play some, commercial defense looking at the portfolio of several alternatives because in our view. We we gave the federal government a manual of alternatives. I mean they are looking at it not as fast as we hoped that it would happen, but once this quota terrorist system matures, we were expecting some news, but we don't have any visibility right now in terms of what is about to come, but it's probably very feasible that.

考慮到我們在美國仍有一些產能可供使用，因此我們取消了對墨西哥的投資，因此可能的支出將不會發生。另一個重要問題是，我們只是在等著看五月會發生什麼，聯邦政府是否會做出反應，或者政府是否會發揮一些商業防禦作用，看看幾種替代方案的組合，因為在我們看來。我們向聯邦政府提供了一份替代方案手冊。我的意思是，他們對此的關注速度沒有我們所希望的那麼快，但是一旦這個恐怖分子配額制度成熟，我們就會期待一些消息，但我們現在還不知道接下來會發生什麼，但這可能是非常可行的。

In terms of what Brazil is experiencing and all of these lines, I mean, lack of, promptness to make a decisions, we may remove some of the investments that we had in the pipeline for the coming years.

就巴西正在經歷的情況以及所有這些方面而言，我的意思是，缺乏做出決策的及時性，我們可能會取消未來幾年已經計劃的一些投資。

If you analyze all of that, it's very likely that at a given moment this year, we may give you more visibility and clarity in terms of what we anticipate for CapEx going forward, but I can say that that current level of 5 to 6 billion, it's a level that should not be maintained in the coming years, but I would like to reinstate that for this year, 2020. 5 we will maintain our disbursements because we cannot stop important important investments in progress and one important investment is mining because this will give us an additional EBITA that is relevant to us. So this is the macro scenario but now Japo can talk about working capital according to what he said at the beginning, I believe that we still have to debate whether in terms of capital allocation.

如果您分析所有這些，那麼很有可能在今年的某個時刻，我們可能會為您提供更多關於我們對未來資本支出的預期的更清晰的了解，但我可以說，目前的 50 億到 60 億的水平不應該在未來幾年保持，但我想在今年（2020 年）重申這一點。我們將維持我們的支出，因為我們不能停止正在進行的重要投資，其中一項重要投資是採礦，因為這將為我們提供額外的 EBITA，這對我們很重要。這是宏觀情景，但現在 Japo 可以根據他一開始所說的來談論營運資本，我相信我們仍然需要討論是否在資本配置方面。

At a current level of cash generation of the company, and we believe that this will remain healthy in the coming years whether the other options such as buyback maybe wouldn't be more logical considering all of the players that relate with us also including the capital markets. So I think Jaur can elaborate a bit more on that subject of working capital, and then I can come back and talk about the the US market.

在公司目前的現金產生水準下，我們相信，未來幾年這一水準仍將保持健康，無論考慮到與我們相關的所有參與者（包括資本市場），回購等其他選擇是否更合乎邏輯。所以我認為 Jaur 可以更詳細地闡述營運資金這個主題，然後我可以回過頭來談談美國市場。

So Kyle giving you a little bit more details about working capital and CapEx.

因此，Kyle 向您提供了有關營運資金和資本支出的更多詳細資訊。

In terms of disbursement in our cash flow line and with a cash effect, we believe that throughout the year, the number would be slightly lower when compared to the disbursement of this quarter. We had a relevant disbursement of things that were dispersed in the beginning of this year, but in general terms our average disbursement should be close.

就我們現金流的支出和現金效應而言，我們認為，全年的支出金額與本季的支出金額相比會略低。我們在今年年初有相關的支出分散，但總體來說我們的平均支出應該是接近的。

To the guidance, if you divided by 4, the guidance we we gave for the entire year, about 1.5 billion per quarter. You should also recall that last quarter, we had more than BRL2 billions, but the CapEx disbursement was lower than that in the cash point of view, so it's just natural that throughout the quarters, there will be some sort of disbursement. So this quarter, we had 1 billion, 1.4 billion of, property investment and this year, we will just, Calculated that divided by quotas in terms of seasonality in in working capital, there was an improvement vis a vis last year. Typically the first quarter is when we we use a lot of working capital, especially in North America because of shipments and prices were escalating and because of that we We expand the number of trade accounts payable. So if you Run a year on year comparison, the disbursement was lowered by 300 million when compared to the same period of last year. So in terms of working capital, we expect that throughout the year, we should have a more normalized level. Maybe we will consume a little bit of cash due to the increased prices, especially in North America, but throughout the year.

對於指導，如果除以 4，我們給出的全年指引是每季約 15 億美元。您還應該記得，上個季度，我們有超過 20 億巴西雷亞爾，但從現金角度來看，資本支出低於該數額，因此在整個季度中，出現某種支出是很自然的。因此，本季度，我們有 10 億、14 億的房地產投資，而今年，我們將根據營運資本的季節性配額進行計算，與去年相比有所改善。通常在第一季我們會使用大量的營運資金，特別是在北美，因為出貨量和價格都在上漲，因此我們擴大了貿易應付帳款的數量。因此，如果進行同比比較，就會發現與去年同期相比，支出減少了 3 億。因此，就營運資金而言，我們預計全年應該會有一個更正常化的水平。也許我們會因為價格上漲而消耗一點現金，尤其是在北美，但全年都會如此。

There should be a return in working capital from our operations maybe.

我們的營運也許應該會帶來營運資本的回報。

More so in South America, but also in our North American.

在南美洲尤其如此，但在我們北美洲也是如此。

BU this quarter, we started with a lot of uncertainties in North America in terms of tariffs and and commercial operations. So there was an increase on the part of our customers and ourselves and so we made some safety.

但本季度，我們在北美的關稅和商業運營方面面臨許多不確定性。因此，我們的客戶和我們自己的安全保障都有所增加，所以我們採取了一些安全措施。

Inventory to cater to the supply chain in our meals that have some interchange from one country to another like Canada and the US. Therefore, working capital was a bit higher, but we believe that throughout the next quarters things will go back to normal levels.

庫存可以滿足我們的膳食供應鏈，這些膳食在加拿大和美國等國家之間有一定的交換。因此，營運資金略高，但我們相信在接下來的幾個季度中情況將恢復到正常水平。

So, the other part of your question about North America, in terms of margins, I think this year will be similar in quantitative terms to last year. This is what we see happening, but distribution might be different. Last year, we started with the 1st and 2nd quarters. More robust and things were deteriorating throughout the year in terms of our performance in North America, but this quarter, we started off Like a more typical year with a significant recovery vis a vis the 4th quarter, and we believe that today, as we mentioned.

因此，關於北美問題的另一部分，就利潤率而言，我認為今年在數量上將與去年相似。這就是我們所看到的情況，但分佈可能有所不同。去年我們從第一季和第二季開始。就我們在北美的業績而言，全年情況都在惡化，但本季度，我們開局像往年一樣，與第四季度相比出現了顯著的複蘇，正如我們所提到的，我們相信今天的情況。

In Gustavuss during Gustavo's remarks, we see some positive signs in North America for the next coming quarters and in the second quarter if there is a a recession in the US economy, this could probably affect our main customers andayo, just to conclude, I would like to say that especially in in the beams market or structural, beams not only there was a price increase that you comment. And, changes in spread, but the quality of the backlog runs on the margin of all of that.

在古斯塔沃 (Gustavo) 演講期間，我們看到北美未來幾季出現了一些積極跡象，如果第二季度美國經濟出現衰退，這可能會影響我們的主要客戶，總而言之，我想說，特別是在梁市場或結構梁市場，不僅出現了您所評論的價格上漲。並且，傳播發生了變化，但積壓的品質取決於所有這些因素。

When you look at the amount of steel that we are delivering and the prospective growth that will be more significant in the US in the coming years, we also talk about the World Cup next year. I mean, the stadiums are ready, but there are some constructions occurring in the US. We are also.

當你看到我們交付的鋼材數量以及未來幾年美國更顯著的成長前景時，我們也會談論明年的世界盃。我的意思是，體育場已經準備好了，但美國正在進行一些建設。我們也是。

Note that, warehouses and the steel demand for this and next year, it's quite promising.

需要注意的是，今年和明年倉庫和鋼鐵的需求是相當有前景的。

I mean, all of this is not very much impacted by the short term debates related to recession. Our backlog is growing.

我的意思是，所有這些都不會受到與經濟衰退相關的短期爭論的太大影響。我們的積壓訂單越來越多。

Maybe we could think that it should grow much faster, but it is growing week after week, and the quality is also improving, every week in terms of what we anticipate for results for next year in the US is quite positive.

我們可能認為它應該增長得更快，但它每週都在增長，品質也在提高，就我們對明年美國業績的預期而言，每週都是相當積極的。

Perfect, very clear. Thank you, Verna and Japur.

完美，非常清晰。謝謝你，Verna 和 Japur。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Daniel Sasson, Itau BBA.

Daniel Sasson，伊塔烏 BBA。

Thank you and good afternoon, everyone.

謝謝大家，下午好。

Thank you, Marie Berna and Japur. My first question is just a follow up.

謝謝你，Marie Berna 和 Japur。我的第一個問題只是一個後續問題。

On capital allocation and cash generation.

關於資本配置和現金產生。

Thatayo mentioned. Gustavo, I think it's very important that you give us a bit more visibility on the Mexico position. I mean, the sustainable mining project is moving quite well, is progressing. And Midlothian project is also well under way. The Mexico project was not among the approved CapEx disbursements. I just want to understand what is your level of flexibility for the other projects that have been previously approved that you showed us during the eraur out the, roller be capacity, forestry expansion, and minogenis. Even other things that you have approved, do you think that those can be revisited? I mean, or are you going to raise the threshold that you have to approve other projects or maybe today you are seeing some expected return in from your shares vis a vis current levels, and this may be used as, I mean, a.

Thatayo 提到。古斯塔沃，我認為你讓我們更了解墨西哥的立場非常重要。我的意思是，永續採礦專案進展順利，並且正在取得進展。米德洛錫安計畫也進展順利。墨西哥項目不屬於已批准的資本支出項目。我只是想了解一下，對於您在期間向我們展示的先前已批准的其他項目，如滾輪產能、林業擴建和礦物生產，您的靈活性如何。即使是您已經批准的其他事項，您認為這些可以重新審議嗎？我的意思是，或者您是否要提高批准其他項目的門檻，或者也許今天您看到相對於當前水平，您的股票會有一些預期的回報，這可能被用作，我的意思是，a。

Cap. How are you going to approach your new projects? Or maybe you're going to raise the bar when it comes to approving new projects.

帽。您將如何處理您的新專案？或者也許你會在批准新項目時提高標準。

So what is your rationale going forward for capital use? And my second question and now referring to Brazil because we already talked about the US in the previous question, in the short run, it seems to me.

那麼您未來資本使用的理由是什麼？我的第二個問題是關於巴西的，因為我們在上一個問題中已經討論了美國，在我看來，從短期來看。

That there is a competition pressure. I mean, prices are coming down, there is still a lot of competition with imported goods, and we lack more clear measures regarding that border tariff system that basically didn't work.

存在競爭壓力。我的意思是，價格正在下降，進口商品的競爭仍然很激烈，我們缺乏針對基本上不起作用的邊境關稅制度的更明確的措施。

I mean, If nothing changes in that macro environment, what could we expect in the domestic market related to cost, lower maintenance shutdowns, because in the first For half of the year you had a lot of maintenance shutdowns. You optimized most of your assets. What would be a more constant scenario, business as usual, without the adoption of measures that would indeed work because this is still a very difficult competition scenario. What do you see for Brazil in the second half of the year?

我的意思是，如果宏觀環境沒有任何變化，那麼我們對國內市場在成本、維護停工率降低方面能期待什麼呢？因為在上半年，有很多維護停工。您優化了大部分資產。如果不採取確實有效的措施，情況將會更加穩定，一切照舊，因為這仍然是一個非常困難的競爭局面。您認為今年下半年巴西的情況如何？

Well, all the points you raised.

好吧，您提出的所有觀點。

They They're all very.

他們他們都非常。

Interesting topics for us to talk about.

我們可以談論一些有趣的話題。

There is no impediment for us to make a decision. Let's say, okay, let's, everybody should go home and let's save on the disbursements we did. I mean, we did that in the past, but we learned.

我們做出決定沒有任何障礙。這麼說吧，好吧，每個人都應該回家，讓我們省下開支。我的意思是，我們過去也這樣做過，但我們吸取了教訓。

That the upturn of these investments, I mean the rebound of these investments, they are all very important for the company. They are important to ensure competitiveness and when they return the numbers that we calculated, it's not just a guess, but we spend 40% more just to put CapEx back again because disbursement increased by 40%. We made decisions in the past that were very much related to new capacity building to increase still.

這些投資的回升，我的意思是這些投資的反彈，對公司來說都非常重要。它們對於確保競爭力非常重要，當他們回到我們計算的數字時，這不僅僅是一個猜測，而是我們花費了 40% 以上的資金只是為了再次投入資本支出，因為支出增加了 40%。我們過去所做的決定與新的產能建設密切相關，並將繼續增加。

Capacity and production. So what we have today is the result of all the work we did in the past, and we are very certain and as Japur was saying that that the additional benefit from IITA coming from these events.

產能和產量。因此，我們今天所取得的成果是我們過去所做工作的結果，我們非常確定，正如 Japur 所說的那樣，IITA 的額外收益也來自於這些活動。

We don't see that it makes sense for us. I mean, mining is already part of our CapEx schedule, so it doesn't make sense for us to make any radical changes. Therefore, we intend to maintain that investment. We have more than 1,000 people working. In that site now, so we would rather continue the investments and starting next year we will be able to capture the benefit of this additional EBITA.

我們認為這對我們來說沒有意義。我的意思是，採礦已經是我們資本支出計畫的一部分，因此我們沒有必要進行任何徹底的改變。因此，我們打算維持這項投資。我們有 1,000 多名員工。因此，我們寧願繼續投資，從明年開始我們將能夠獲得額外 EBITA 帶來的好處。

I mean, we have to monitor things closely which are poor to see how much of that EITA that we are committed to add to our balance sheet will be captured or not. So I would rather see the bases more in those lines. But looking forward, I understand that.

我的意思是，我們必須密切監控不良情況，看看我們承諾添加到資產負債表中的 EITA 有多少能夠被捕獲。所以我寧願在這些方面看到更多的基礎。但展望未來，我明白這一點。

There are Probably more robust alternatives or alternatives that would allow us to get better returns in terms of capital allocation. This is an open debate, even, to expedite share buyback, maybe, should we do that, share buyback or accelerate CapEx. It's still a question mark. In terms of Brazil, we are losing confidence. We don't know whether Brazil will be able to to accelerate that mechanism. And not only Mexico that will become a future disbursement along the lines that what I said that we hope to maintain 5 or 6 billion of CapEx a year, this will no longer hold to be true, but if it is not that, how much would that be and where we will allocate that money? I mean this is an ongoing debate. We have a team working on it and as soon as we have that mapped out, we'll certainly give you more visibility.

可能有更強勁的替代方案或替代方案可以讓我們在資本配置方面獲得更好的回報。這是一場公開的辯論，甚至，為了加快股票回購，也許，我們應該這樣做，股票回購或加速資本支出。這仍然是一個問號。就巴西而言，我們正在失去信心。我們不知道巴西是否能夠加速這項機制。而且不僅墨西哥將成為未來的支出，正如我所說的，我們希望每年維持 50 億或 60 億的資本支出，但這將不再是事實，但如果不是這樣，那將是多少，我們將把這筆錢分配到哪裡？我的意思是這是一個持續不斷的爭論。我們有一個團隊正在致力於此事，一旦我們規劃好，我們一定會為您提供更多的可見性。

We. We are committed to tell you what will happen, and we believe that it is correct that in the coming years we will reduce this CapEx and so I am committed to let you know when the right guy comes, what we will do and what we will put in a pipeline going forward and part of this decision stems from that second point I mentioned, all of these mechanisms of trade defense that they are not yet in place, the federal government. And the Ministry of Industry and Trade, they have several alternatives. They could also probably introduce high quotas. All of the steel that comes in should pay a tariff or maybe to expedite the application of anti-dumping measures. It is shocking to see the timing that the government. Asks to be able to make a decision so we should accelerate their decisions and even, when we see an increase incoming of rebars coming from from Egypt and looking at Mercosur, I mean, there are series of options in our menu, but we haven't seen any measures yet coming from the Brazilian government. The commitments is that we should wait about a year. To to be able to understand what was good or bad, and then be able to deploy changes and that's why I keep insisting in May because we have to wait and see what will come. There are several alternatives, but in addition to that, we are also looking at different possible scenarios. What if the government does nothing? If the government doesn't do anything, I mean, we have to make our own decisions, maybe we should hibernate some of our lives or maybe we should. Revisit our fixed cost. I can never say that we exhausted all our possibilities to seek for for further competitiveness. We also have to look at areas where imported goods have no competition. Therefore, we should create more competitiveness there too.

我們。我們承諾告訴你們將會發生什麼，我們相信在未來幾年我們將減少資本支出是正確的，所以我承諾讓你們知道，當合適的人選到來時，我們將做什麼，我們將在未來的管道中投入什麼，這個決定的一部分源於我提到的第二點，所有這些貿易防禦機制都尚未到位，聯邦政府。對於工業和貿易部來說，他們有幾種選擇。他們可能還會引入高配額。所有進口的鋼鐵都應繳納關稅，或加快實施反傾銷措施。政府採取這項行動的時機令人震驚。要求能夠做出​​決定，因此我們應該加快他們的決定，甚至當我們看到來自埃及和南方共同市場的鋼筋進口量增加時，我的意思是，我們的菜單中有一系列選項，但我們還沒有看到巴西政府採取任何措施。承諾是我們應該等待大約一年。為了能夠理解什麼是好的或壞的，然後能夠部署變更，這就是為什麼我一直堅持在五月，因為我們必須等待，看看會發生什麼。有幾種替代方案，但除此之外，我們也在研究不同的可能情況。如果政府不採取任何行動會怎樣？如果政府不採取任何行動，我的意思是，我們必須自己做出決定，也許我們應該暫停我們的部分生活，或者也許我們應該這樣做。重新審視我們的固定成本。我不能說我們已經用盡了所有的可能性來尋求進一步的競爭力。我們也必須關注進口商品沒有競爭的領域。因此，我們也應該在那裡創造更多的競爭力。

I mean what you heard about increasing competitiveness in terms of rebar, G Gau is positioning itself.

我的意思是，您聽到的關於提高螺紋鋼競爭力的消息，G Gau 正在定位自己。

In a very robust way in this market, everybody already knows that all of these figures are available through Instituto AU Brazil of what happened to the market, so they have information about that and with the strength of our balance sheet and everything we did in the past years to.

在這個市場中，每個人都已經非常清楚，所有這些數據都可以透過巴西AU研究所獲得，從而了解市場的情況，因此他們掌握了有關這方面的信息，並了解我們的資產負債表的實力以及我們過去幾年所做的一切。

Create the necessary conditions to be more present in the market, especially regarding rebars, we are positioning ourselves in a very robust way because we believe that what we're doing now will certainly be beneficial because you, it will bring further competitiveness and competitiveness in the midterm. What I've heard.

創造必要的條件，以便在市場上有更大的存在感，特別是在鋼筋方面，我們正以非常穩健的方式定位自己，因為我們相信我們現在所做的事情肯定會對你有益，因為它將在中期帶來進一步的競爭力和競爭力。我所聽到的。

About this dispute in the market is more related to rebars due to all of our more recent positions. So I think in general I covered all the points, but let's hear from Jaur to see whether he wants to add anything. So Daniel.

由於我們最近的立場，關於這次市場爭議更多地與鋼筋有關。所以我認為總的來說我已經涵蓋了所有要點，但讓我們聽聽 Jaur 的意見，看看他是否想補充任何內容。所以丹尼爾。

I just have a short.

我只是有點短。

Common related to CapEx disbursement in a year where we believe that we will disperse, we will have a decreasing disperse. We had a long, shutdown in the hot roll coil mill. And that rolling mills throughout the next quarters, our disbursement will be substantially lower in terms of maintenance shutdowns when compared to previous quarters.

與資本支出相關的常見情況是，我們認為在某一年我們會分散，但分散程度會降低。我們的熱捲捲廠停工了很長時間。在接下來的幾個季度中，與前幾季相比，我們在軋機維護停工方面的支出將大幅降低。

Thank you very much, Jaur and Gustavo. All the best.

非常感謝 Jaur 和 Gustavo。一切順利。

Carlos de Alba, Morgan Stanley.

卡洛斯·德阿爾巴，摩根士丹利。

.

。

How are you doing, Carlos? It's good to have you on board. As regards the ramp up of hot rolled coils, we have opened this. We are producing originally in the old part of the rolling mill, as in the new part of the rolling mill. We're producing with commercial quality with higher and higher specifications, and we do have the ambition of ending the year. With an additional production of 250,000 tons. Of course, since we started production in March, we are not going to have the full year of 250,000 tons, but something close to 150 to 100,000 additional hot rolled coils.

你好嗎，卡洛斯？很高興您能加入我們。關於熱軋捲板產量的提升，我們已經開啟了這個進程。我們最初是在軋機廠的舊部分進行生產，就像在軋機廠的新部分一樣。我們正在生產具有商業品質且規格越來越高的產品，我們確實有在今年年底完成的目標。新增產量25萬噸。當然，從3月開始生產以來，我們全年的產量不會達到25萬噸，但大約會增加15萬到10萬卷熱軋卷。

It is important to highlight.

值得強調的是。

That today Gero has more demand from our clients of hot rolled coils than we produce. So we are still buying.

如今，Gero 客戶對熱軋捲的需求量大於我們的產量。所以我們仍在購買。

A hot road coils from our competitors in Brazil to sell through commercial or Gerda to complement the demand we have due to lack of capacity. So the investment in HRSCs will not only increase the volumes but will replace the purchase of third party material.

我們從巴西的競爭對手那裡購買熱路卷，透過商業或 Gerda 進行銷售，以補充我們因產能不足而產生的需求。因此，對 HRSC 的投資不僅會增加產量，而且還會取代第三方材料的購買。

So that we can have our own materials, so there's also this trade-off. But we mentioned that over this year, we'll capture a substantial part of that and we'll end the year with you.

這樣我們就可以擁有自己的材料，所以也存在這種權衡。但我們提到，今年我們將捕獲其中的很大一部分，並與您一起結束這一年。

HRSC mill at full capacity. Regarding mining, we haven't got an update in terms of changing the deadlines. We continue to move forward according to plan in terms of physical progress and financial progress, and we have this time frame of completing this investment and putting Into operation a part of the equipment in December or by December of 2025 and 2026, we would reap the fruits of this high content low cost iron ore production that we will have at Miguel Bourne.

HRSC 軋機滿載運轉。關於採礦，我們還沒有得到有關改變截止日期的最新消息。我們將繼續按照計劃推進物質和財務方面的進展，我們將在 2025 年 12 月或 2026 年 12 月完成這項投資並投入部分設備運行，我們將在 Miguel Bourne 收穫高含量低成本鐵礦石生產的成果。

I think that I answered your first question.

我想我已經回答了你的第一個問題。

Would you like to compliment?

你想稱讚一下嗎？

Yes, Carlos, let me give you my personal opinion about the trade defense mechanisms. They are very broad, and of course, people will have different opinions about this topic. What the federal government did was to TRY to build a trade defense wall, but they built a very short wall. And full of holes. So the first thing to prevent these imports is to close these holes on the wall. There are some holes, big holes. One is the ZPEs of Manaus. They have a tax benefit for the acquisition of steel. And local processing. So this growth that we see in the influx of still through MAS is certainly not for consumption in Manaus. We would like to have a detailed investigation by the federal government to understand this. That's the ZPEs in Manaus should not be an alternative route for the influx of imported material. Another big hole we see is a bilateral agreement with Egypt.

是的，卡洛斯，讓我告訴你我對貿易防禦機制的個人看法。它們的範圍很廣泛，當然，人們對這個主題會有不同的看法。聯邦政府所做的是嘗試建造一堵貿易防禦牆，但他們建造的牆很矮。並且滿是漏洞。因此，阻止這些進口的首要任務就是堵住牆上的這些洞。有一些洞，很大的洞。一個是馬瑙斯的ZPE。他們在收購鋼鐵時享有稅收優惠。並就地加工。因此，我們看到透過 MAS 流入的葡萄酒數量增長肯定不是為了馬瑙斯的消費。我們希望聯邦政府進行詳細調查以了解此事。這就是說，馬瑙斯的零排放工廠不應該成為進口材料流入的替代路線。我們看到的另一個大漏洞是與埃及的雙邊協議。

Which has already been used as we speak for the arrival of rebar in Brazil, paying a lower tax. And the third big hole on the wall is the Santa Caterina issue, where there's ICMS deduction, and with the ICMS tax deduction, it is practically as the 25% import tax did not exist. We would need to create mechanisms to close those three holes on the wall.

正如我們所說，這已經用於螺紋鋼抵達巴西並繳納較低的稅金。而牆上的第三個大漏洞是聖卡特琳娜問題，其中有 ICMS 扣除，而有了 ICMS 稅收扣除，實際上就如同 25% 的進口稅並不存在一樣。我們需要創建機制來填補牆上的這三個洞。

And in parallel to that, increasing the height of the wall, I advocate a hard quota mechanism and we should have a limit to the volume that can be arriving in Brazil based on a historical level, having a maximum level of imported material coming into Brazil.

在增加隔離牆高度的同時，我主張建立硬配額機制，我們應該根據歷史水準對進入巴西的進口材料數量進行限制，對進入巴西的進口材料數量設定最高限額。

Another point that frustrates me a lot is how slow the government is to deploy anti-dumping decisions. It's absurd the time they're taking at the ministry.

另一點令我非常沮喪的是政府部署反傾銷決定的速度太慢。他們在部裡花的時間太荒唐了。

To do this kind of analysis. And my 4th point, more to the mid and long term.

做這種分析。我的第四點是，更多地關注中期和長期。

Is that there should be some kind of incentive in an equal level of competition, the utilization of local steel, for example, For the factories of imported vehicles that are being built in Brazil, there should be in the contrast that the development of the local industry. We speak about the factory of EVs. It's not exactly a factory. It's just an assembly. Assembly line, there's not 1 1 kg of steel of rubber, not even a local supplier. So the government should have a clear plan for the development of a local supplier park to supply the need. It's shocking to see some debates and discussions regarding Chinese investments for energy transmission.

在平等競爭中應該提供某種激勵措施，例如使用本地鋼材，對於在巴西建造的進口汽車工廠，應該與當地工業的發展形成對比。我們談論的是電動汽車工廠。嚴格來說它不是一個工廠。這只是一個集會。裝配線上，沒有11公斤的鋼材或橡膠，甚至沒有本地供應商。因此，政府應該有一個明確的計劃來發展當地的供應商園區以滿足需求。看到一些關於中國能源傳輸投資的爭論和討論令人震驚。

And they are bringing material ready from China. In my opinion, this should be combated. So that's my point of view regarding the trade defense.

他們正從中國帶來準備好的材料。我認為，我們應該打擊這種現象。這就是我對貿易防禦的看法。

And on rebar, it's always a combination of themes.

而在鋼筋上，它總是主題的組合。

And with the current level of rebar price, this will not be an incentive for a new investment. A lot of players that are not as strong as ours, we follow public information about our competitors, many of them facing difficulties due to internal management and weaker balance sheets, and perhaps.

而在目前的螺紋鋼價格水準下，這不會對新的投資產生激勵作用。許多不如我們強大的參與者，我們關注有關競爭對手的公開信息，其中許多競爭對手由於內部管理和資產負債表較弱而面臨困難，也許。

In terms of the short term, we have the Santa Caterina issue. It's an entry door.

就短期而言，我們面臨聖卡特琳娜問題。這是入口門。

And a deviation of taxes. Perhaps this will be corrected with the tax reform, but With The current level and repositioning, I think that there will be a lack of stimulus regarding the arrival of imported material at some ports.

以及稅收的偏差。也許稅改會糾正這個問題，但就目前的水平和重新定位而言，我認為一些港口在進口材料到達方面將缺乏刺激。

But my answer to you is a combination of factors.

但我的回答是多種因素綜合的結果。

We are sure that a short term effort which is absorbed by our balance sheet will bring the midterm a level of competitiveness and a level of competition that we haven't seen in Brazil in the recent years. So we have to exchange the short term for the midterm.

我們確信，透過我們的資產負債表所吸收的短期努力，我們將在中期為巴西帶來近年來未曾見過的競爭力和競爭水平。所以我們必須以短期來換取中期。

Caio Greiner, UBS.

瑞銀的 Caio Greiner。

Hello. I have two follow-up questions. The first, on the status of the steel market in the United States. It's interesting to hear from you, but you have a very optimistic view regarding the US market until the end of the year. But this goes against the signs that we're seeing that the US economy is getting close to a standstill point and it's starting to decelerate. We saw consumer trust, data and industry trust, data, confidence data dropping. So I'd like to hear from you.

你好。我有兩個後續問題。第一，關於美國鋼鐵市場的現況。很高興聽到您的消息，但您對今年年底前的美國市場持非常樂觀的看法。但這與我們看到的美國經濟接近停滯點並開始減速的跡象相反。我們看到消費者信任數據和產業信任數據、信心數據下降。所以我想聽聽您的意見。

You're seeing a better steel demand for your steel. Do you think that this is being seen as real demand, or perhaps It is what you said in the release, more in the line of a panic buying? So, is it, do you have a clear outlook for the second quarter? And looking at the second half, what do you expect? What are your clients saying?

您會看到對您的鋼材的需求增加。您認為這是真正的需求嗎？或者也許正如您在新聞稿中所說的那樣，這更像是一種恐慌性購買？那麼，您對第二季的展望是否明確？展望下半場，您有何期待？您的客戶怎麼說？

Because again, we see a deceleration for residential construction, some deceleration in the industry, and the impression we get is that the economy will decelerate. And do you think that this will impact grid out products specifically or not? Or perhaps you are operating in a niche which is more protected than that of other players.

因為我們再次看到住宅建設減速，產業減速，我們得到的印像是經濟將會減速。您認為這會對電網產品產生具體影響嗎？或者也許您正在經營的領域比其他參與者受到更多保護。

And the second follow-up question on topics regretting energy more specifically, you have shown a big interest in self-energy production in Brazil. My question is, do we intend to continue to invest in this and make acquisitions to become self-sufficient?

第二個後續問題是關於能源的話題，更具體地說，您對巴西的自給能源生產表現出了濃厚的興趣。我的問題是，我們是否打算繼續投資並進行收購以實現自給自足？

And if so, How much more should we expect in terms of acquisitions and whether these possible acquisitions and investments in energy specifically a part of this number report that the total CapEx should be below the levels of BRL5 million to BRL6 billion that we saw in recent years?

如果是這樣，那麼我們在收購方面應該預期多少，這些可能的收購和能源投資，特別是這個數字的一部分，是否表明總資本支出應該低於我們近年來看到的 500 萬至 60 億雷亞爾的水平？

Well, I think it summarized a protected niche, for example, for structural profiles, although you mentioned some indications of the health of residential construction. Well, this kind of product is not impacted by these indices.

嗯，我認為它總結了一個受保護的領域，例如結構概況，儘管你提到了一些住宅建築健康狀況的跡象。嗯，這種產品不受這些指數的影響。

So we have big structural profiles being used in large data processing centers, industries, and even in oil and gas. We believe that these investments exist and will be accelerated in the United States. We believe that we play in a more protected niche and we had an an additional benefit, although the merchants do not have a lot of imports because there are many different gauges, and it is a material that normally clients do not accept.

因此，我們在大型資料處理中心、工業甚至石油和天然氣領域使用了大型結構型材。我們相信這些投資在美國是存在的，而且會加速。我們相信，我們處於一個更受保護的利基市場，我們擁有額外的好處，儘管由於規格繁多，商家的進口量並不多，而且它是一種通常客戶不接受的材料。

These products with oscillations, but the additional penetration of leaving Mexico was contained relatively. So I think that we are kind of more protected. And in a way this is a goal we had way back when when we left the rebar, we are less exposed and that's why we are optimistic. Our optimism is very much associated with our product mix currently in the United States. Of course, we have to consider the spreads, scrap.

這些產品有波動，但離開墨西哥的額外滲透相對受到抑制。所以我認為我們受到了更好的保護。從某種程度上來說，這是我們離開鋼筋產業時就設定的目標，那時我們面臨的風險較小，因此我們感到樂觀。我們的樂觀與我們目前在美國的產品組合密切相關。當然，我們還得考慮價差、廢料。

Scrap price is falling and there is an undersupply, there are orders. Will this increase the spreads or not? We believe that in this specific segment of beats, this will happen. There was a recent price increase and we use a lot of obsolescence scrap, which helps us have a more competitive price.

廢鋼價格下跌，供應不足，訂單仍有。這是否會增大價差？我們相信，在這個特定的節拍片段中，這種情況會發生。最近價格上漲，我們使用了大量的廢舊材料，這有助於我們獲得更具競爭力的價格。

So there's nothing today that I look at, and that gives me a headache in terms of the health of our backlog in the US. As for energy, I'll give you the concept. Japort will give you the numbers. Our energy investments are very much linked to the Brazilian tax benefit related to self-sufficiency, self-production.

所以今天我什麼都沒看到，這讓我對我們在美國積壓訂單的健康狀況感到頭痛。至於能量，我會給你一個概念。Japort 會提供你數字。我們的能源投資與巴西自給自足、自產相關的稅收優惠密切相關。

So my view is similar to what I mentioned regarding CapEx in the previous questions. We can reduce our future investments in new assets, energy assets, and be a little more conservative. We will not capture the benefit of cost or appetite, just like It would happen in any CapEx we did not invest. My rationale is the same. It is related to CapEx, investments are directly related to our growth of self-production.

所以我的觀點與我在前面的問題中提到的有關資本支出的觀點類似。我們可以減少未來對新資產、能源資產的投資，稍微保守一點。我們不會獲得成本或胃口帶來的好處，就像我們沒有投資的任何資本支出中會發生的情況一樣。我的理由是一樣的。它與資本支出有關，投資與我們的自主生產成長直接相關。

And with the current law in Brazil, we enjoy a tax benefit, and this has a direct impact on our costs. You asked about numbers, so I'll leave that for Japur.

根據巴西現行法律，我們享有稅收優惠，這對我們的成本有直接影響。您問的是數字，所以我將把這個留給 Japur。

Hello, Caio, I think that breaking down the topics as part of our CapEx. There is a part of the BRL6 billion CapEx that includes investments in energy, which are the solar energy parks about BRL400 million to round it up that would be the disbursement for this year for that area.

你好，Caio，我認為將主題分解為我們資本支出的一部分。60 億巴西雷亞爾的資本支出中有一部分包括能源投資，即太陽能園區約 4 億巴西雷亞爾，總計將是該地區今年的支出。

And this number is part of our CapEx of BRL6 billion that we mentioned. The investments that we made last year to buy some power plants. And that entailed disbursements a little in Q1 and a little in recent days, actually yesterday, we signed the second.

這個數字是我們提到的 60 億巴西雷亞爾資本支出的一部分。我們去年投資了一些發電廠。這需要在第一季和最近幾天支付少量款項，實際上昨天我們簽署了第二份協議。

Power plant, a small power plant, and this will be about BRL400 million, BRL440 million to be dispersed along 2025. So that is the rationale. Now, room to grow again. When we compare the concession period. We are not buying cash flow from contracted companies. We are buying companies that have no energy contracted and we have a plug and play of the new capacity included in our energy matrix and our power matrix with significant cost reductions.

發電廠，一座小型發電廠，這將耗資約 4 億雷亞爾，到 2025 年將耗資 4.4 億雷亞爾。這就是理由。現在，又有了成長的空間。當我們比較優惠期間。我們不會從簽約公司購買現金流。我們正在收購那些沒有簽訂能源合約的公司，而我們的能源矩陣和電力矩陣中包含了即插即用的新容量，從而顯著降低了成本。

We are at 50% of self-sufficiency currently. We do not intend to increase to 100% self-sufficiency because we believe that this would be inefficient and too much capital intensive. But if we do find good assets with good internal rates of returns, IPCA plus 15, IPCA plus 20, which is what we had in the energy investments made, we will look at that, of course.

目前我們的自給率已達50%。我們不打算實現 100% 的自給自足，因為我們認為這樣做效率低下，而且需要太多的資本。但如果我們確實找到了具有良好內部收益率的優質資產，IPCA 加 15，IPCA 加 20，這就是我們在能源投資中所獲得的，我們當然會考慮這一點。

But not increasing the total disbursement of our cash flow. Perhaps we'll need to make some adjustments, reducing some CapEx approvals as Gustavo mentioned earlier in this call.

但不會增加我們現金流的總支出。也許我們需要做一些調整，減少一些資本支出批准，正如 Gustavo 在本次電話會議中早些時候提到的那樣。

Rafael Barcellos, Bradesco BBI.

拉斐爾·巴塞洛斯，布拉德斯科 BBI。

Good morning. I have two questions on the Brazilian market, my first question.

早安.我有兩個關於巴西市場的問題，第一個問題。

Yes, on the ramp up of the of the new rolling Ouro Branco First, I would like to learn more about the operating and and cost aspect and then market.

是的，關於新 Ouro Branco 滾動鐵路的建設，首先，我想更多地了解運營和成本方面，然後是市場。

And we've also noticed that the environment is more challenging with import levels reaching record levels month after month, so can you please tell us a little bit about the ramp up in terms of on the commercial side and the market side as well and at the same time, whether you could tell us whether you believe that we will still see some price impacts due to these additional capacity that is entering the local market?

我們也注意到，環境變得更具挑戰性，進口水平逐月達到創紀錄的水平，因此，您能否向我們介紹一下商業方面和市場方面的增長情況？同時，您是否可以告訴我們，您是否相信這些進入本地市場的額外產能是否仍會對價格產生影響？

My second question is about long stills. In the release, you talked about increased competition of Rebars, this is something that has been mentioned in previous earnings calls as well, but could you please tell us about the progress of this scenario in April and whether you still see some price pressure on Rebars?

我的第二個問題是關於長靜態影像的。在新聞稿中，您談到了鋼筋競爭加劇的問題，這也是在之前的收益電話會議上提到的事情，但您能否告訴我們四月份這種情況的進展情況，以及您是否仍然認為鋼筋面臨一些價格壓力？

And strategically speaking, what would be your diagnosis for rebar market in Brazil, whether the idea would be to to reassess the segment or probably, if you have no protective measures and if the domestic market doesn't come with any solution, whether you would consider divesting?

從戰略角度來說，您對巴西螺紋鋼市場有何診斷？是否會重新評估該領域？或者，如果您沒有採取保護措施，而且國內市場也沒有任何解決方案，您是否會考慮撤資？

So, hi, Rafael, I hope you're fine. Speaking about the ramp up of BQ2, I think in terms of volumes, we are quite confident in terms of our performance throughout the year. Your concern regarding price pressure.

所以，嗨，拉斐爾，我希望你一切都好。談到 BQ2 的成長，我認為就產量而言，我們對全年的表現非常有信心。您對價格壓力的擔憂。

I mean, if you think 200,000 additional tons, which is what we anticipate for this year, and the total volume of imported goods. I mean, looking at the size of the hot rolled coils. I think, there are other players with a more robust presence in Brazil for us. So in terms of increased supply, this would not cause any impact to us on the point of view of the rolling milk.

我的意思是，如果你想想額外的 20 萬噸，這就是我們今年的預期，以及進口商品的總量。我的意思是看熱軋卷的尺寸。我認為，在巴西還有其他球員對我們來說更有實力。所以從增加供應量的角度來說，這不會對我們滾動牛奶造成任何影響。

And we imagine, we think that by the end of the second or third quarter of this year. The costs of how to roll coils would resume all levels, and this is in line with the with an increase in our metallic spread, which is very good in terms of the volumes of the rolling mill, but also a bit not only because of that 150,000 additional tons but also related to the 1.8 tons of hot coils that we will produce.

我們設想，我們認為這將在今年第二季或第三季末實現。軋製捲材的成本將恢復到各個水平，這與我們的金屬價差的增加相一致，這對於軋機的產量來說非常好，而且不僅僅是因為增加了 150,000 噸，還與我們將生產的 1.8 噸熱捲有關。

No, go ahead. You already talked about the hot coils of BQ.

不，繼續吧。您已經談到了 BQ 的熱線圈。

Have after our last call, I received some additional questions. So my understanding is that not everyone that interacts with us every day are not so familiar with what Rebars represent to us. So I asked Maria and Japur, and they included.

在我們上次通話之後，我收到了一些額外的問題。所以我的理解是，並不是每個每天與我們互動的人都不太熟悉 Rebars 對我們意味著什麼。所以我問了瑪麗亞和賈普爾，他們也包括在內。

They included a chart in our presentation just to show how what is the impact of Rebars for Gal Brazil. I mean we are reducing the ratio and with this new BQ phase, the participation of Rebar is even. Lower with some of the people that I talked to people that are not very familiar with our operations, they still sawer do as a company that solely produced rebars. I mean, Rebar is losing ground in our portfolio.

他們在我們的簡報中加入了一張圖表，以展示鋼筋對 Gal Brazil 的影響。我的意思是我們正在降低比例，隨著新的 BQ 階段的到來，Rebar 的參與度將會更加均衡。與我交談過的一些不太熟悉我們業務的人說，他們仍然認為我們是一家僅生產鋼筋的公司。我的意思是，Rebar 在我們的投資組合中正在失去優勢。

It's a very It's a very pure commodity, probably the purest we have, but especially rebars that go to distribution. I mean, the space that traditionally was always ours, I think we can occupy that space in an optimal equation, meaning that we can increase capacity, but also reduce some costs, even if this has an impact on pricing and profitability.

這是一種非常純淨的商品，可能是我們所擁有的最純淨的商品，尤其是用於分銷的鋼筋。我的意思是，傳統上一直屬於我們的空間，我認為我們可以以最佳方式佔據該空間，這意味著我們可以增加容量，同時降低一些成本，即使這會對定價和盈利能力產生影響。

We understand that this space is ours, I mean and this is Evolving, how far I don't think that we should have any additional effort. Considering what we have at the moment and the margins that we see in Brazil at the moment. I mean, there are several markets with different characteristics.

我們明白這個空間是我們的，我的意思是，它正在不斷發展，我認為我們不應該再付出任何額外的努力。考慮到我們目前所擁有的以及我們目前在巴西看到的優勢。我的意思是，有幾個市場有不同的特徵。

Therefore, I think we will reach a balance, but still maintaining the general margins of all of those competitors in the markets. The margins are under pressure. I mean, if you look at our mix of products and the strength of our balance sheet, we believe that this can be easily absorbed through, margin growth and other products, and the benefit is that we will have a cost dilution by producing more rewards and eventually there will be A rebalance in the industry.

因此，我認為我們將達到平衡，但仍能維持市場上所有競爭對手的整體利潤率。利潤率面臨壓力。我的意思是，如果你看看我們的產品組合和資產負債表的實力，我們相信這可以透過利潤率成長和其他產品輕鬆吸收，其好處是我們將透過產生更多回報來稀釋成本，最終實現產業的重新平衡。

The market size today does not compete with the supply of Rebars. I mean, this is my general comment.

當今的市場規模無法與鋼筋的供應競爭。我的意思是，這是我的整體評論。

Lucas Laghi, XP.

盧卡斯·拉吉，XP。

Good afternoon, Werneck, Mariana and Japur.

下午好，Werneck、Mariana 和 Japur。

I have just Two additional comments. The first is on North America.

我還有另外兩點意見。第一個是關於北美。

And that backlog performance we that we saw in the first quarter, you also talked about inventory levels. I would just like to understand the inventory levels of your customers and what you believe is structural, and if you see any other inventory movements in the coming quarters, and what can you tell us about April? In comparison with the first quarter.

我們在第一季看到的積壓表現，您也談到了庫存水準。我只是想了解您客戶的庫存水平以及您認為的結構性情況，以及您是否看到未來幾季的任何其他庫存變動，您能告訴我們有關四月份的情況嗎？與第一季相比。

And my second question has to do with capital structure leverage is within your policy, the average tenure also, but your gross debt. It was slightly higher than that BRL12 billion that you set forth, but given the habitat level and given the fact that the policy is within that leverage level, whether we could assume that Gerdau would be comfortable in running with that BRL12 million of gross debt?

我的第二個問題與資本結構槓桿有關，這在您的保單範圍內，也在您的平均任期內，但您的總債務也在您的範圍內。這個數字比您提出的 120 億雷亞爾略高，但考慮到棲息地水平以及政策處於該槓桿水平之內，我們是否可以假設 Gerdau 能夠安心地承擔 1200 萬雷亞爾的總債務？

Well, okay. I think you got it right. Since our timeline is adequate and our leverage is also adequate.

嗯，好的。我認為你說得對。因為我們的時間表足夠，我們的槓桿也足夠。

The appetite is not expanded or out of the normal levels, so we are not concerned with our gross debt. I mean this policy was set forth in 2018, 2019, and the exchange rate changed significantly since then. And so when we look at our internal guidance of having about $1 billion in cash with a gross debt of 12, that is a net debt of BRL6 million which would be half EBITDA and this is the leverage.

需求沒有擴大或超出正常水平，所以我們並不擔心我們的總債務。我的意思是這項政策是在2018年、2019年制定的，從那時起匯率發生了重大變化。因此，當我們查看內部指引時，發現現金約為 10 億美元，總債務為 12，那麼淨債務為 600 萬巴西雷亞爾，相當於 EBITDA 的一半，這就是槓桿率。

At this point, giving the leverage level we have in the EBITDA we have and the average tenure of our debt, this is not a concern right now because we are passed beyond that gross debt level. In terms of our portfolio in North America, we are still over 70 days. We haven't seen any move on the part of our customers and like other industries.

目前，考慮到我們的 EBITDA 中的槓桿水平和債務的平均期限，這現在不是一個問題，因為我們已經超過了總債務水平。就我們在北美的投資組合而言，我們仍超過 70 天。與其他行業一樣，我們還沒有看到客戶方面採取任何行動。

In the first week of April and the measures that were that follow that for still this was announced before other sectors and it's been and 4 since, March. So in April, we see a very robust portfolio of over 70 days of our order book, and we haven't noticed any reduction in shipments or people removing products from their orders. Well, certainly some sectors are more resilient than others like the automotive industry.

在四月的第一周，以及隨後的措施，這些措施仍然先於其他行業宣布，自三月以來已經過去了四週。因此，在四月份，我們的訂單量非常強勁，超過 70 天，我們沒有註意到出貨量有任何減少，也沒有人從訂單中刪除產品。嗯，當然有些產業比其他產業更有彈性，例如汽車產業。

Because there are some systems that really rely on imported goods. They're trying still to understand what they will do with their pricing system, but when we look at type of products, we also understand that our activity level is quite robust. It doesn't mean that this will remain so the same thing throughout the year. Well, we will see some things maturing in the American economy, so probably we will see.

因為有些系統確實依賴進口商品。他們仍在試圖了解如何調整他們的定價體系，但當我們查看產品類型時，我們也了解到我們的活動水平相當強勁。但這並不意味著這種情況全年都會保持不變。好吧，我們將看到美國經濟中的一些事情逐漸成熟，所以我們可能會看到。

Some impact in our customer portfolio, even though the type of products we sell and the destination, special, especially non-residential construction are long term. That's why we don't think that the impact will be felt so, instantly.

儘管我們銷售的產品類型和目的地，特別是非住宅建築，都是長期的，但這對我們的客戶組合產生了一些影響。這就是為什麼我們認為影響不會立即顯現。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Yuri Pereira, Santander.

尤里·佩雷拉，桑坦德銀行。

Hello. Good afternoon.

你好。午安.

Oh, the level of share by [bio] has been very strong. At even higher price levels and what the company is currently trading at. I know that you mentioned in the beginning that you do, that you're studying CapEx versus share buyback.

哦，[bio] 的分享水平非常高。甚至更高的價格水平和公司目前的交易價格。我知道您一開始就提到您正在研究資本支出與股票回購。

But could you elaborate on your share buyback plans? And if possible, the distribution between dividend and share buyback between Gerdau and the other one, given the price levels if there, if we could expect anything different?

但您能詳細說明一下您的股票回購計畫嗎？如果可能的話，考慮到價格水平，Gerdau 和其他公司之間的股息和股票回購分配是否會有所不同？

Hello, Yuri.

你好，尤里。

When we look at our share buyback level, we accelerated the program, as you yourself said, the average price considering everything we have executed by April 11 is very close to the current trading price, what we executed in In the first quarter.

當我們審視我們的股票回購水準時，我們加速了該計劃，正如您自己所說，考慮到我們在 4 月 11 日之前執行的所有措施，平均價格非常接近當前交易價格，即我們在第一季執行的價格。

This was done slowly and at higher price, but if we consider or we repurchase between March 31st and April 11, the average price is very similar to the current screen price but this is not important to us.

這項工作進展緩慢，而且價格較高，但如果我們考慮或在 3 月 31 日至 4 月 11 日之間重新購買，平均價格與當前螢幕價格非常相似，但這對我們來說並不重要。

We don't do share buy back thinking about the P&L of the treasury because we are not going to be selling these shares in the future. We are actually returning value to our shareholders and reducing our number of shares and adapting our level of capital employed to the level of activity, the level of balance sheet that we need right now.

我們不會考慮財務部門的損益來進行股票回購，因為我們將來不會賣出這些股票。我們實際上是在向股東返還價值，減少股份數量，並根據我們目前所需的活動水準和資產負債表水準調整資本使用水準。

For a preference between dividends and share buyback then share buyback gains more force given the price. A breast which is depressed for our shares. The Gerdau shares, if we think about the book value per share.

如果在股息和股票回購之間做出選擇，那麼在給定價格的情況下，股票回購將獲得更大的力量。一個為我們的共享而沮喪的乳房。如果我們考慮每股帳面價值，那麼這就是 Gerdau 股票。

If we consider the PPE divided by the number of shares, the PPE out divided by the shares is BRL15 per share just in the PPE item inventory, working capital BRL16 billion divided by the shares. We have BRL8 per share allocated in working capital just to think about the net value of realization of the company, we understand that Gerdau's shares are significantly discounted.

如果我們考慮 PPE 除以股份數，則 PPE 除以股份數為每股 15 巴西雷亞爾，僅在 PPE 項目庫存中，營運資本為 160 億巴西雷亞爾除以股份數。我們每股分配了 8 巴西雷亞爾的營運資本，只是為了考慮公司的淨實現值，我們了解到 Gerdau 的股票大幅折價。

From the balance sheet standpoint and from the standpoint of multiples, our EBITDA in our view. It's not out of the ordinary. It's not a super cycle EBITDA, but with a multiple as if we were in a super cycle with a multiple of 3.5 times doesn't make any sense. Very resilient and deleveraged company Gerdau.

從資產負債表的角度和倍數的角度來看，我們認為是 EBITDA。這並不稀奇。這不是一個超級週期的 EBITDA，但如果我們處於一個超級週期，那麼 3.5 倍的倍數就沒有任何意義了。蓋爾道集團 (Gerdau) 是一家極具韌性且去槓桿的公司。

And that's why we understand that we're making good use of our funds, a good capital allocation for us to do shop by back, considering that we declared dividends of $0.12 per share plus the executed share by bank, it's close to twenty five seconds per share.

這就是為什麼我們知道我們正在充分利用我們的資金，良好的資本配置讓我們能夠進行回購，考慮到我們宣布的每股 0.12 美元的股息加上銀行執行的股份，每股接近 25 秒。

And that's our philosophy right now, Yuri. And as for Gerdau Metalurgica, the funding of Gerdau Metalurgica, the funding received from dividends or interest on capital from Gerdau. If there's not an extraordinary dividend payout by Gerdau. As a Metalurgica Gerdau today does not have significant cash to continue repurchasing its shares because it completed its share buy back with the cash it had available, and it concluded this in Q1.

這就是我們現在的理念，尤里。至於 Gerdau Metalurgica，Gerdau Metalurgica 的資金來自 Gerdau 的股息或資本利息。如果 Gerdau 沒有派發特別股息的話。作為冶金企業，Gerdau 目前沒有足夠的現金來繼續回購其股票，因為它已經用現有現金完成了股票回購，並且在第一季完成了回購。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Ricardo Monegaglia, Safra.

里卡多·莫內加利亞，薩夫拉。

Hello, thank you for taking my question. I have only one question. This discussion of margin. Well, we did an exercise in the past of structural margin or margin reference. Now considering the consolidation of specialties in Brazil and North America. Perhaps we have a reference margin. Could you explain this and how it compares?

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。我只有一個問題。這是關於保證金的討論。嗯，我們過去做過結構保證金或保證金參考的練習。目前正在考慮整合巴西和北美的專業業務。也許我們有一個參考空間。你能解釋一下這一點以及它是如何比較的嗎？

Oh, Ricardo, I think that at the end of the day. Business divisions became most similar considering the US that the North American Brazil operations. In the midterm and when we think about margins, we think that the North America division, with all the investments made, re-modernization of our facilities and concentration in high added value products as we currently have, can give us higher margins than what we had in the past, which was a single digit.

哦，里卡多，我認為最終是這樣。考慮到美國業務，業務部門與北美巴西業務最為相似。從中期來看，當我們考慮利潤率時，我們認為，透過對北美分部進行大量投資、重新現代化我們的設施以及集中於我們目前的高附加價值產品，我們可以獲得比過去更高的利潤率（過去的利潤率只有個位數）。

Just like in Brazil, with the investments being made CapEx investments and reduction of costs. And reduction of operating expenses, as is the case of mining and electric power, we'll have a significant increase in profitability in the coming years.

就像在巴西一樣，投資是透過資本支出投資並降低成本來實現的。隨著營運費用的減少，例如採礦和電力的情況，未來幾年我們的獲利能力將大幅提高。

So I think that both for the North America BD and the Brazilian BD we have to think about EBITDA margins between mid-teens and or close to 15%. I think that makes sense given our historical context and the fact we are in a cyclical industry. At the moment, it might be over 20%.

因此我認為，無論是北美 BD 還是巴西 BD，我們都必須考慮 EBITDA 利潤率在十幾歲到接近 15% 之間。考慮到我們的歷史背景以及我們處於週期性行業的事實，我認為這是有道理的。目前來看，這個比例可能已經超過20%。

And sometimes close to single digits, but I guess that over time, this is one of the big strengths of Gerdau, have a resilient portfolio. And sometimes the geographies as happened in this quarter, one be the offset the other when the market or some internal issue, we had a non-recurring event, as was the case this quarter when we had the set of operations of the [HSCRML].

有時接近個位數，但我想，隨著時間的推移，這是 Gerdau 的一大優勢，擁有一個有彈性的投資組合。有時，本季發生的地理位置變化，一個是抵消另一個是市場或一些內部問題，我們有一個非經常性事件，就像本季的情況一樣，我們有一系列的營運[HSCRML]。

Igor Guedes, Genial.

伊戈爾‧格德斯 (Igor Guedes)，和藹可親。

Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Maria, Japur and Werneck.

午安.下午好，Maria、Japur 和 Werneck。

Thank you for taking my question. I have two questions. I know that this has been a topic previously mentioned, but I would like to revisit the CapEx subject. In the first quarter of '24, you reported a managerial CapEx of BRL2.4 billion, but with a cash effect of 1.8, this difference.

感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個問題。我知道這是之前提到過的話題，但我想重新討論一下資本支出這個主題。在 24 年第一季度，您報告的管理資本支出為 24 億巴西雷亞爾，但現金效應為 1.8，有這個差異。

According to my understanding, roll over to the cache of fact inverting. The Inverting so cash effect is BRL462 million in terms of managerial CapEx, considering the comparison of CapEx which should be different when compared to your historical CapEx, I mean there they there used to be a grossip in the second half of the year.

按照我的理解，就是翻轉事實反轉的快取。就管理資本支出而言，反轉現金效應為 4.62 億巴西雷亞爾，考慮到資本支出的比較，與歷史資本支出相比應該有所不同，我的意思是他們曾經在下半年出現過總額。

So in my view, I think you will have less room in the last three quarters to maintain the same visibility of capexx. So you would have a more intense cash effect, do you think that this the same effect you had in 2024 would occur also now the difference between managerial CapEx and the cash effect?

因此，在我看來，我認為在最後三個季度中，維持 capexx 可見度的空間將會減少。因此，您將獲得更強烈的現金效應，您是否認為 2024 年產生的相同效應現在也會出現，管理資本支出和現金效應之間的差異？

And I'm asking that because of the calculation of free cash flow, because then I will not calculate it as managerial CapEx, but I will use the cash effect. And my second question relates to long steels. Barcellos already asked that question, but I would like to learn more about your pricing policy. I know this is a sensitive subject for you, but this is a valid question for investors. Would you please tell us.

我之所以問這個問題是因為自由現金流的計算，因為這樣我就不會將其計算為管理資本支出，而是使用現金效應。我的第二個問題與長鋼有關。Barcellos 已經問過這個問題，但我想了解更多有關您的定價政策的資訊。我知道這對您來說是一個敏感話題，但對投資者來說這是一個合理的問題。請告訴我們。

If you would be willing to let go of profitability just to maintain your your market share in the long market and what will be the trade off between market share and price and what are the most priority what are your biggest priorities? I know that this is a sensitive information, but this could also give me an idea because this is a topic that is bothering investors.

如果您願意放棄獲利能力只是為了在長期市場中保持您的市場份額，那麼市場份額和價格之間的權衡是什麼？什麼是最重要的？您最大的優先事項是什麼？我知道這是一個敏感訊息，但這也能給我一個想法，因為這是一個困擾投資者的話題。

So you can start half of answering the CapEx side of the question.

因此，您可以開始回答問題的資本支出方面的一半。

It's not a matter of managerial CapEx. It's a matter of cash versus the regime. We measure things with suppliers and then, okay, we say. This is already allocated in my PPE, but in terms of accounts payable, sometimes.

這不是管理資本支出的問題。這是金錢與政權之間的問題。我們與供應商一起測量，然後，我們說，好的。這已經在我的 PPE 中分配了，但就應付帳款而言，有時是這樣。

We finished, I mean, that nail that I put on the wall in December hasn't been paid yet. It will be paid 30 days later. So there is always this difference if you stop and think that Gerdau. I mean BRL6 billion a year of PPE. We are talking about BRL500 million a month. So if the term, the payment term is 30 days, there will be a carryover from one month to the next this quarter.

我們完成了，我的意思是，我 12 月釘在牆上的那顆釘子到現在還沒付款。30天後付款。所以，如果你停下來想一想，你會發現 Gerdau 有這種差異。我的意思是每年需要 60 億巴西雷亞爾的個人防護裝備。我們談論的是每月5億巴西雷亞爾。因此，如果付款期限為 30 天，則本季將從一個月結轉到下個月。

As you mentioned, the opposite thing happened. There were more disbursements and throughout the year this will be normalized in this first quarter. The picture was reversed, so it is possible, and this is what we hope will happen. Even in terms of even if in terms of PPE, we hope to see something more linear and in terms of of disbursements, probably we will expedite that in the second quarter, but not, nothing very relevant.

正如你所提到的，發生了相反的事情。全年支出有所增加，並且這種情況將在第一季恢復正常。情況是相反的，所以這是有可能的，這也是我們希望發生的事情。即使就 PPE 而言，我們希望看到更線性的進展，就支出而言，我們可能會在第二季度加快這一進程，但沒有什麼非常相關的。

Okay, now we just the price of shares will change because the distributor CapEx change, but this will probably stem from the window we look at if it's January, February, March or February, March or April. And in this case, we should have different answers, but this is a one off because the trend is to have a more linear disbursement throughout the year in terms of our CapEx investments.

好的，現在我們只是股票價格會發生變化，因為分銷商的資本支出發生了變化，但這可能源於我們觀察的窗口是一月、二月、三月還是二月、三月或四月。在這種情況下，我們應該有不同的答案，但這只是一次性的，因為趨勢是就我們的資本支出投資而言，全年的支出更加線性。

Speaking about loans, I will just give you a very objective question. In terms of rebar and distribution, there is no trade-off. Our issue here is market share, period and at the current level of cost dilution to reach our share, considering all of our competitive advancements, it's very obvious for us to have to be in a position that is comparable to our size.

說到貸款，我只想問你一個很客觀的問題。就鋼筋和分銷而言，不存在權衡。我們的問題是市場份額、週期以及在當前成本稀釋水平下達到我們的份額，考慮到我們所有的競爭進步，很明顯我們必須處於與我們的規模相當的地位。

Thank you very much. That's very clear.

非常感謝。這非常清楚。

Thank you very much. Our Q&A session is now concluded, and now I'll turn the floor back to Gerdau for his final remarks.

非常感謝。我們的問答環節現已結束，現在我將把發言權交還給 Gerdau，請他做最後的演講。

Well, first of all, I would like to thank Rafael and Japur for their participation and on my behalf and on behalf of the entire company, I would like to thank you for joining us in another earnings release presentation. This is a very good opportunity for us also to learn from you. And again, I take this opportunity to invite you for our next earnings release presentation scheduled for August 1st. So see you then. We remain at your disposal.

嗯，首先，我要感謝 Rafael 和 Japur 的參與，我謹代表我個人和整個公司感謝你們參加我們的另一場收益發布會。這對我們而言也是一個向您學習的非常好的機會。我再次藉此機會邀請您參加我們定於 8 月 1 日舉行的下一次收益發布會。那麼到時候見。我們隨時為您效勞。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

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