Fidelity National Financial Inc (FNF) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to FNF's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Lisa Foxworthy-Parker, Senior Vice President, Investor and External Relations. Please go ahead.

早上好，歡迎參加 FNF 2023 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音。我現在想將電話轉給投資者和對外關係高級副總裁麗莎福克斯沃西帕克 (Lisa Foxworthy-Parker)。請繼續。

Great. Thanks, operator, and welcome, everyone. Joining me today are Mike Nolan, Chief Executive Officer; and Tony Park, Chief Financial Officer. We look forward to addressing your questions following our prepared remarks. Chris Blunt, F&G's CEO; and Wendy Young, F&G's CFO, will join us for the Q&A portion of today's call.

偉大的。謝謝運營商，歡迎大家。今天加入我的是執行長 Mike Nolan；和財務長東尼·帕克。我們期待在我們準備好的發言後回答您的問題。 F&G 執行長 Chris Blunt； F&G 財務長 Wendy Young 將參加我們今天電話會議的問答部分。

Today's earnings may include forward-looking statements and projections under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act, which do not guarantee future events or performance. We do not undertake any duty to revise or update such statements to reflect new information, subsequent events or changes in strategy. Please refer to our most recent quarterly and annual reports and other SEC filings, for a discussion of the factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied.

今天的收益可能包括《私人證券訴訟改革法案》下的前瞻性陳述和預測，這些陳述和預測並不保證未來的事件或績效。我們不承擔任何修改或更新此類聲明以反映新資訊、後續事件或策略變更的責任。請參閱我們最近的季度和年度報告以及其他 SEC 文件，以討論可能導致實際結果與明示或暗示的結果有重大差異的因素。

This morning's discussion also includes non-GAAP financial measures that we believe may be meaningful to investors. Non-GAAP measures have been reconciled to GAAP, where required in accordance with SEC rules within our earnings materials available on the company's website. Yesterday, we issued a press release, which is also available on our website. Today's call is being recorded and will be available for webcast replay at fnf.com. It will also be available through telephone replay, beginning today at 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time, through February 29, 2024. And now, I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Mike Nolan.

今天早上的討論還包括我們認為可能對投資者有意義的非公認會計準則財務指標。根據公司網站上提供的獲利資料中 SEC 規則的要求，非 GAAP 指標已與 GAAP 進行了調整。昨天，我們發布了一份新聞稿，該新聞稿也可以在我們的網站上找到。今天的通話正在錄音中，並將在 fnf.com 上進行網路廣播重播。從今天下午 3:00 開始，還可透過電話重播觀看該節目。東部時間，截至 2024 年 2 月 29 日。現在，我將把電話轉給我們的執行長 Mike Nolan。

Thank you, Lisa, and good morning. I'm proud of our results and I would like to thank all our employees, for their accomplishments in 2023. As we delivered another industry-leading performance in the Title segment and record-setting performance in the F&G segment.

謝謝你，麗莎，早安。我為我們的成果感到自豪，我要感謝我們所有員工在 2023 年的成就。我們在 Title 細分市場中再次取得了行業領先的業績，並在 F&G 細分市場中創下了創紀錄的業績。

Before I cover the results, I'd like to address our recently reported cybersecurity incident. Given the strong execution of our recovery plan, we were able to resume normal operations quickly in the quarter. As far as the minor negative impact to our fourth quarter Title segment results, we estimate the incident reduced adjusted pretax Title earnings by $8 million to $10 million and lowered our adjusted pretax Title margin, by roughly 50 basis points, from 12.3%, which would have been in line with the prior year quarter to 11.8% as reported.

在介紹結果之前，我想先談談我們最近報道的網路安全事件。鑑於我們復甦計劃的有力執行，我們能夠在本季度迅速恢復正常運作。至於對我們第四季產權部門業績的輕微負面影響，我們估計該事件使調整後的稅前產權收益減少了800 萬美元至1000 萬美元，並將我們的調整後稅前產權利潤率從12.3%降低了大約50 個基點，這將導致與去年同期一致，為 11.8%。

The F&G segment was not impacted. As challenging as this event was, it really showcased how our team pulls together. I'd especially like to thank our employees and advisers, who worked tirelessly around the clock to resolve the incident and our employees in the field, who worked diligently with our customers to minimize the impact.

F&G 部門沒有受到影響。儘管這次活動具有挑戰性，但它確實展示了我們團隊如何團結起來。我要特別感謝我們的員工和顧問，他們日以繼夜地努力解決這一事件，並感謝我們的現場員工，他們與客戶一起努力工作，將影響降到最低。

FNF remains committed to protecting our client and customer information and cybersecurity remains a top priority. Now turning to results for the Title segment. Our Title business has continued to perform well in 2023. We delivered adjusted pretax earnings in our Title segment of $964 million and achieved an industry-leading adjusted pretax Title margin of 13.7% for the full year. This is an outstanding result, despite the persistent housing market downturn, as form affordability has been cited as the worst in a generation due to continued higher U.S. mortgage rates, which peaked at over 8% in October, combined with limited housing supply.

FNF 仍然致力於保護我們的客戶和顧客訊息，網路安全仍然是重中之重。現在轉向標題部分的結果。我們的產權業務在 2023 年持續表現良好。我們的產權業務部門調整後稅前收益為 9.64 億美元，全年調整後稅前產權利潤率達到業界領先的 13.7%。儘管房地產市場持續低迷，但由於美國抵押貸款利率持續走高（10 月達到8% 以上的峰值），加上住房供應有限，住房負擔能力被認為是一代人以來最差的，因此，這仍然是一個出色的結果。

One of the key drivers to our ability to successfully navigate the tough market is our continued focus on managing expenses. For the full year, we reduced total field operations employee count by approximately 8%. We have also consolidated some of our direct office Title locations, which has generated about $1 million per month in facilities cost savings. Commercial volumes continue to be in line with our expectations and consistent with the levels seen in years like 2015, through 2020.

我們能夠成功駕馭艱難市場的關鍵驅動力之一是我們持續專注於費用管理。全年，我們將現場營運員工總數減少了約 8%。我們也整合了一些直接辦公地點，每月節省了約 100 萬美元的設施成本。商業銷售繼續符合我們的預期，並與 2015 年至 2020 年等年份的水平一致。

We generated Commercial revenue of $294 million in the fourth quarter and $1.1 billion for the full year. During 2023, we saw continued strength in Multifamily, Industrial and Other segments like Energy and Affordable housing similar to recent years. Looking at fourth quarter volumes more closely, daily purchase orders opened were up 1% over the fourth quarter of 2022, up 7% for the month of January versus the prior year and up 23% for the month of January versus December.

我們第四季的商業收入為 2.94 億美元，全年商業收入為 11 億美元。 2023 年，我們看到多戶住宅、工業和其他領域（如能源和經濟適用房）與近年來類似，持續強勁。更仔細觀察第四季的成交量，每日開倉訂單比 2022 年第四季成長 1%，1 月比去年同期成長 7%，1 月比 12 月成長 23%。

And refinance orders opened per day were down 11%, from the fourth quarter of 2022, down 1% for the month of January versus the prior year and up 15% for the month of January versus December. Our total Commercial orders opened were 704 per day, down 3% from the fourth quarter of 2022, flat for the month of January versus the prior year and up 3% for the month of January versus December.

與 2022 年第四季相比，每日開立的再融資訂單下降了 11%，其中 1 月與去年同期相比下降 1%，1 月與 12 月相比成長 15%。我們的商業訂單總數為每天 704 份，比 2022 年第四季下降 3%，1 月與去年同期持平，1 月與 12 月相比成長 3%。

Overall, total orders opened averaged 4,100 per day in the fourth quarter, with October at 4,600, November at 380 and December at 4,000. For the month of January, total orders opened were 4,800 per day, up 20% versus December. While we are pleased with our strong performance and profitability, we remain cautious as we have entered the first quarter of 2024, with historic low order volumes, which are expected to pressure industry margins much like last year.

整體而言，第四季平均每天開倉訂單總數為 4,100 份，其中 10 月為 4,600 份，11 月為 380 份，12 月為 4,000 份。 1 月份，每天的訂單總數為 4,800 個，比 12 月份增加 20%。雖然我們對強勁的業績和盈利能力感到滿意，但我們仍保持謹慎態度，因為我們已進入 2024 年第一季度，訂單量創歷史新低，預計這將像去年一樣對行業利潤率構成壓力。

During 2023, we progressed from an adjusted pretax title margin of 10% in the first quarter to mid-teens in the middle of the year and tapering to 11.8% in the fourth quarter, which in aggregate produced a full year level of 13.7%. As always, we will manage our business to the trend in open orders, to protect our profitability.

2023 年，我們調整後的稅前所有權利潤率從第一季的 10% 上升到年中的 10% 左右，並在第四季度逐漸降至 11.8%，全年水準總計達到 13.7%。一如既往，我們將根據未結訂單的趨勢來管理我們的業務，以保護我們的獲利能力。

We feel that we are well positioned for the current market and poised to benefit from a potential turn in the housing market, should mortgage rates drop in 2024. Beyond the near-term pressures, we remain bullish on the mid- to long-term fundamentals of the real estate market. We will continue to develop and invest in technology, recruit top talent and make strategic acquisitions, all while maintaining industry-leading margins.

我們認為，如果 2024 年抵押貸款利率下降，我們已經為當前市場做好了準備，並準備從房地產市場的潛在轉變中受益。除了近期壓力之外，我們仍然看好中長期基本面房地產市場。我們將繼續開發和投資技術、招募頂尖人才並進行策略性收購，同時保持業界領先的利潤率。

Over the past year, we have invested approximately $300 million in 10 acquisitions. Our in-air platform is another area where we continue to invest. This is our industry-leading end-to-end real estate experience platform, which is fully deployed across our residential business and integrated within our direct operations.

去年，我們在 10 項收購中投資了約 3 億美元。我們的空中平台是我們繼續投資的另一個領域。這是我們領先業界的端到端房地產體驗平台，在我們的住宅業務中全面部署，並整合到我們的直接營運中。

Adoption of the platform has been strong, shown by the following highlights for 2023. Over 1 million agents, transaction coordinators and consumers, used in here to manage their transactions up more than 50% over the prior year. Over 750,000 starting here, opening packages were sent to consumers, with 64% completing these packages entirely online.

該平台的採用率一直很高，2023 年的以下亮點就表明了這一點。超過 100 萬代理商、交易協調員和消費者使用該平台來管理交易，比前一年增長了 50% 以上。超過 750,000 個從這裡開始的拆封包裹被發送給消費者，其中 64% 完全在線上完成這些包裹。

Our Title companies automatically published over 400,000 orders to inHere, providing our customers with enhanced efficiency and transparency into their transactions. InHere's performance throughout 2023, demonstrates its growing relevance and utility in the real estate sector. Its diverse offerings and accessibility through both web and mobile platforms, make it a vital resource that significantly aids processing of residential transactions.

我們的產權公司自動向 inHere 發布了超過 400,000 個訂單，為我們的客戶提供了更高的交易效率和透明度。 InHere 2023 年的表現證明了其在房地產領域日益增長的相關性和實用性。其多樣化的產品和可透過網路和行動平台進行訪問，使其成為顯著幫助住宅交易處理的重要資源。

We expect to add functionality and content to inHere to further enhance the transaction experience of agents, transaction coordinators and consumers, which in turn will create market growth and efficiency opportunities for FNF over the near and long term.

我們期望為 inHere 添加功能和內容，以進一步增強代理商、交易協調員和消費者的交易體驗，這反過來將為 FNF 在近期和長期創造市場成長和效率機會。

Turning to our F&G business. We are pleased to see investor recognition of F&G's success, as its market capitalization has increased from $2.4 billion at the time of the partial spin-off, in December of 2022, to approximately $5.8 billion at the end of 2023. F&G has profitably grown its assets under management, before flow and reinsurance to a record $56.3 billion at December. And comprised nearly 30% of FNF's adjusted net earnings for the full year 2023.

轉向我們的 F&G 業務。我們很高興看到投資者對 F&G 的成功的認可，因為其市值已從 2022 年 12 月部分分拆時的 24 億美元增至 2023 年底的約 58 億美元。F&G 的盈利增長12 月份管理資產（不計流量和再保險）達到創紀錄的563 億美元。佔 FNF 2023 年全年調整後淨利的近 30%。

We were also pleased to see the most recent rating agency recognition of F&G's success, as AM Best upgraded the financial strength ratings of F&G's primary operating companies to A from A- in January 2024, recognizing the financial strength and stability of F&G's business, as they successfully execute on their diversified growth strategy.

我們也很高興看到最新評級機構對F&G 成功的認可，AM Best 於2024 年1 月將F&G 主要營運公司的財務實力評級從A- 升級至A，認可了F&G 業務的財務實力和穩定性，因為它們成功執行多元化成長策略。

Given the success that F&G has achieved, combined with the many opportunities to grow and expand the business, FNF Board made the decision to invest $250 million in F&G to take advantage of the current opportunity for growth. As announced on January 16, 2024, the independent special committees of both companies agreed on a mandatory convertible preferred security, which will provide F&G additional capital to accelerate growth of its retained AUM. With that, let me now turn the call over to Tony to review FNF's fourth quarter and full year financial performance and provide additional highlights.

鑑於 F&G 的成功，再加上眾多發展和擴展業務的機會，FNF 董事會決定向 F&G 投資 2.5 億美元，以利用當前的成長機會。正如 2024 年 1 月 16 日宣布的那樣，兩家公司的獨立特別委員會就強制性可轉換優先證券達成一致，這將為 F&G 提供額外資本，以加速其保留資產管理規模的成長。現在，讓我將電話轉給托尼，回顧 FNF 第四季度和全年的財務業績，並提供更多亮點。

Thank you, Mike. Starting with our consolidated results. We generated $3.4 billion in total revenue in the fourth quarter, and we reported a fourth quarter net loss of $69 million, including net recognized gains of $203 million versus a net loss of $5 million, including $118 million of net recognized losses in the fourth quarter of 2022.

謝謝你，麥克。從我們的綜合結果開始。我們第四季的總營收為34 億美元，第四季淨虧損為6,900 萬美元，包括2.03 億美元的淨確認收益，而淨虧損為500 萬美元，其中包括1.18 億美元的第四季確認淨虧損2022 年。

The Title segment contributed net earnings of $228 million. The F&G segment had a net loss of $251 million, and the Corporate segment had a net loss of $46 million. The net recognized gains and losses in each period are primarily due to mark-to-market accounting treatment of equity and preferred stock securities, whether the securities were disposed off in the quarter or continued to be held in our investment portfolio.

Title 部門貢獻淨利 2.28 億美元。 F&G 部門淨虧損 2.51 億美元，企業部門淨虧損 4,600 萬美元。每個期間的淨確認損益主要是由於對股權和優先股證券按市值計價的會計處理所致，無論這些證券是在本季度處置還是繼續持有在我們的投資組合中。

Excluding net recognized gains and losses, our total revenue was $3.2 billion, as compared with $2.7 billion in the fourth quarter of 2022. Adjusted net earnings were $204 million or $0.75 per diluted share, compared with $274 million or $1.01 per share for the fourth quarter of 2022. The Title segment contributed $174 million. The F&G segment contributed $64 million and the Corporate segment had an adjusted net loss of $34 million.

不計淨確認損益，我們的總收入為32 億美元，而2022 年第四季為27 億美元。調整後淨利為2.04 億美元，即稀釋後每股0.75 美元，第四季為2.74 億美元，即每股1.01 美元2022 年。標題部分貢獻了 1.74 億美元。 F&G 部門貢獻了 6,400 萬美元，企業部門調整後淨虧損為 3,400 萬美元。

For the full year 2023, we saw strong performance for the Title segment, despite a difficult environment, as well as record growth for the F&G segment, which together generated solid profitability. Total revenue, excluding gains and losses, was $11.9 billion in the full year 2023 and reflects a 9% decrease from the full year 2022, primarily due to the decline in Title order volumes. This generated $962 million in adjusted net earnings, a decrease of 35% from $1.5 billion in full year 2022.

2023 年全年，儘管環境困難，我們仍看到遊戲業務部門表現強勁，並且 F&G 業務部門實現了創紀錄的增長，兩者共同創造了堅實的盈利能力。 2023 年全年總收入（不計損益）為 119 億美元，較 2022 年全年下降 9%，主要是因為遊戲訂單量下降。這產生了 9.62 億美元的調整後淨利潤，比 2022 年全年的 15 億美元減少了 35%。

The Title segment contributed $760 million. The F&G segment contributed $285 million and the Corporate segment had an adjusted net loss of $83 million. Turning to financial highlights, specific to the Title segment. Our Title segment generated $1.7 billion in total revenue in the fourth quarter, excluding net recognized gains of $65 million, compared with $1.8 billion in the fourth quarter of 2022.

產權部門貢獻了 7.6 億美元。 F&G 部門貢獻了 2.85 億美元，企業部門調整後淨虧損為 8,300 萬美元。轉向財務亮點，特別是標題部分。我們的遊戲業務第四季總營收為 17 億美元，不包括 6,500 萬美元的淨確認收益，而 2022 年第四季為 18 億美元。

Direct premiums decreased by 10% versus the fourth quarter of 2022. Agency premiums decreased by 13%, and escrow title-related and other fees decreased by 4% versus the prior year. Personnel costs decreased by 4% and other operating expenses decreased by 10%. All in, the Title business generated adjusted pretax Title earnings of $198 million, compared with $227 million for the fourth quarter of 2022 and an 11.8% adjusted pretax Title margin for the quarter versus 12.3% in the prior year quarter.

與 2022 年第四季相比，直接保費下降了 10%。代理保費下降了 13%，託管產權相關費用和其他費用比前一年下降了 4%。人員成本下降 4%，其他營運費用下降 10%。總而言之，產權業務調整後稅前產權收益為 1.98 億美元，而 2022 年第四季為 2.27 億美元，本季調整後稅前產權利潤率為 11.8%，去年同期為 12.3%。

As Mike highlighted, excluding the onetime 50 basis point impact of the cybersecurity incident, our fourth quarter adjusted pretax Title margin was 12.3% and in line with the prior year quarter. For the full year, the Title business generated adjusted pretax Title earnings of $964 million, compared with $1.6 billion for the full year 2022. And a 13.7% adjusted pretax Title margin versus 16.7% in the full year 2022.

正如麥克所強調的，排除網路安全事件一度造成的 50 個基點的影響，我們在第四季度調整後的稅前產權利潤率為 12.3%，與去年同期持平。全年，產權業務調整後稅前產權收益為 9.64 億美元，而 2022 年全年為 16 億美元。調整後稅前產權利潤率為 13.7%，而 2022 年全年為 16.7%。

Our Title and Corporate investment portfolio totaled $5 billion at December 31. Interest and investment income in the Title and Corporate segments of $103 million increased $3 million, as compared with the prior year quarter, primarily due to higher income from cash and short-term investments, partially offset by lower income from our 1031 Exchange business.

截至12 月31 日，我們的產權和企業投資組合總額為50 億美元。產權和企業部門的利息和投資收入為1.03 億美元，與去年同期相比增加了300 萬美元，主要是由於現金和短期投資收入增加，部分被我們 1031 Exchange 業務收入的減少所抵銷。

Looking to 2024, we expect to generate interest and investment income of $95 million to $100 million, in each of the first 2 quarters, before falling to $75 million to $85 million in the second half of the year, with anticipated Fed funds cuts of 100 to 150 basis points.

展望 2024 年，我們預計前兩個季度將產生 9,500 萬至 1 億美元的利息和投資收入，下半年將降至 7,500 萬至 8,500 萬美元，預計聯準會資金將削減 100%至150個基點。

Our Title claims paid of $64 million were $14 million higher than our provision of $50 million for the fourth quarter. The carried reserve for Title claim losses is approximately $70 million or 4.2% above the actuary central estimate. We continue to provide for Title claims at 4.5% of total Title premiums.

我們支付的產權索賠金額為 6,400 萬美元，比第四季的 5,000 萬美元準備金高出 1,400 萬美元。產權索賠損失的附帶準備金約為 7,000 萬美元，比精算中心估計高出 4.2%。我們繼續以總產權保費的 4.5% 提供產權索賠。

Next, turning to financial highlights, specific to the F&G segment. F&G hosted its earnings call earlier this morning and provided a thorough update. So, I will focus on the key highlights of its quarterly and full year performance. F&G reported record gross sales of $4.1 billion in the fourth quarter, a 52% increase from the fourth quarter of 2022 and $13.2 billion for the full year 2023. A 17% increase over the full year 2020, driven by record retail sales and robust institutional market sales.

接下來，轉向財務亮點，特別是 F&G 領域。 F&G 今天稍早召開了財報電話會議，並提供了全面的最新資訊。因此，我將重點關注其季度和全年業績的主要亮點。 F&G 報告稱，第四季總銷售額達到創紀錄的41 億美元，較2022 年第四季成長52%，2023 年全年總銷售額為132 億美元。在創紀錄的零售額和強勁的機構推動下，較2020 年全年成長17%市場銷售。

F&G's net sales retained were $2.5 billion in the fourth quarter and $9.2 billion for the full year 2023. Net sales reflect third-party flow reinsurance, which has increased from 50% to 90% of MYGA sales, during 2023, as expected. F&G has successfully expanded from 1 to 3 high-quality and established flow reinsurance partners, which provides counterparty diversification benefit and more capacity. And the higher percentage of flow reinsurance, which provides a lower capital requirement on ceded new business, while allocating capital to the highest returning retained business enhances cash flow, provides fee-based earnings and is accretive to F&G's returns.

F&G 第四季保留的淨銷售額為25 億美元，2023 年全年為92 億美元。淨銷售額反映了第三方流量再保險，正如預期的那樣，2023 年該淨銷售額佔MYGA 銷售額的比例從50% 增加到90%。 F&G已成功將優質且成熟的流動再保險合作夥伴從1個拓展至3個，為交易對手提供了多元化收益和更多能力。流量再保險的比例較高，這對分出的新業務提供了較低的資本要求，同時將資本分配給回報率最高的保留業務，從而增強了現金流，提供了基於費用的收益，並增加了F&G 的回報。

F&G has profitably grown its retained assets under management to a record $49.5 billion at December 31. AUM before flow reinsurance was $56.3 billion, adjusting for the approximately $7 billion of cumulative new business ceded and well ahead of our expectations at the time of acquisition. Adjusted net earnings for the F&G segment were $64 million in the fourth quarter. This includes alternative investment returns below our long-term expectations by $31 million or $0.11 per share and significant expense items of $16 million or $0.06 per share.

截至12 月31 日，F&G 的管理保留資產已實現盈利，達到創紀錄的495 億美元。流量再保險前的資產管理規模為563 億美元，根據累計轉讓的約70 億美元的新業務進行調整，遠遠遠超出了我們收購時的預期。 F&G 部門第四季調整後淨利為 6,400 萬美元。這包括另類投資回報低於我們長期預期的 3,100 萬美元或每股 0.11 美元，以及 1,600 萬美元或每股 0.06 美元的重大費用項目。

For the full year 2023, adjusted net earnings for the F&G segment were $285 million. This includes alternative investment returns below our long-term expectations by $130 million or $0.48 per share and significant expense items of $43 million or $0.16 per share.

2023 年全年，F&G 部門調整後淨利為 2.85 億美元。這包括另類投資回報低於我們的長期預期 1.3 億美元或每股 0.48 美元，以及 4,300 萬美元或每股 0.16 美元的重大費用項目。

To bring it all together, F&G adjusted net earnings, excluding significant items in the F&G segment, were $251 million or $0.92 per diluted share in the fourth quarter and $1.1 billion or $4.19 per diluted share for the full year. I will wrap up with a few thoughts on capital and liquidity. We remain focused on ensuring a balanced capital allocation strategy, as we navigate the current environment.

總而言之，排除 F&G 部門的重要項目，F&G 第四季度調整後淨利潤為 2.51 億美元，即稀釋後每股 0.92 美元，全年為 11 億美元，即稀釋後每股 4.19 美元。最後我將談談關於資本和流動性的一些想法。在應對當前環境時，我們仍然致力於確保平衡的資本配置策略。

We held $886 million in cash and short-term liquid investments at the holding company level at December 31, which has remained relatively steady over the course of the year despite the effect of market headwinds and historical low volumes in the Title business.

截至 12 月 31 日，我們在控股公司層級持有 8.86 億美元的現金和短期流動投資，儘管受到市場逆風和產權業務交易量歷史低位的影響，但在這一年中仍保持相對穩定。

As a reminder, this year-end amount is prior to the $250 million investment, made in F&G in January 2024. On February 16, 2024, FNF and F&G, each entered into amended and restated credit agreements. For FNF, this included an extension of the maturity of the facility from October 2025 to February 2029. For F&G, this included an increase to the size of the facility commitment to $750 million from $665 million and extended the maturity of the facility by 2 years to November 2027. Thereby enhancing our liquidity profile and financial flexibility.

需要提醒的是，該年末金額是在 2024 年 1 月對 F&G 進行的 2.5 億美元投資之前的。2024 年 2 月 16 日，FNF 和 F&G 各自簽訂了修訂和重述的信貸協議。對於 FNF，這包括將融資期限從 2025 年 10 月延長至 2029 年 2 月。對於 F&G，這包括將融資承諾規模從 6.65 億美元增加到 7.5 億美元，並將融資期限延長 2 年到2027 年11月。從而增強我們的流動性狀況和財務靈活性。

F&G's outstanding balance is $365 million, which reflects a $150 million paydown in the fourth quarter. FNF's consolidated debt was $3.9 billion on December 31, up approximately $200 million from the preceding quarter due to F&G's senior note issuance and partial revolver paydown in December.

F&G 的未償餘額為 3.65 億美元，反映出第四季支付的 1.5 億美元。截至 12 月 31 日，FNF 的合併債務為 39 億美元，較上一季增加約 2 億美元，原因是 F&G 於 12 月發行了優先票據並償還了部分循環債務。

As a result, FNF consolidated debt-to-capitalization ratio, excluding AOCI, was 28.9% as of December 31. This is in line with our long-term target range of 20% to 30%, and we expect that our balance sheet will naturally delever, as a result of growth in shareholders' equity, excluding AOCI.

因此，截至 12 月 31 日，FNF 合併債務與資本比率（不包括 AOCI）為 28.9%。這符合我們 20% 至 30% 的長期目標範圍，我們預計我們的資產負債表將由於股東權益（不包括AOCI）的成長，自然會去槓桿化。

Going forward, our consolidated annual interest expense on debt outstanding is approximately $200 million, comprised of $80 million for FNF's holding company debt and $120 million for F&G segment debt. Following our record level of share repurchases in 2021 and 2022, at a total combined cost of $1 billion, we prudently moderated our repurchase volume in 2023, to preserve financial flexibility through the multi-decade low volumes of this market cycle.

展望未來，我們未償債務的綜合年度利息支出約為 2 億美元，其中包括 FNF 控股公司債務的 8,000 萬美元和 F&G 部門債務的 1.2 億美元。繼2021 年和2022 年以總成本10 億美元的創紀錄水平進行股票回購之後，我們在2023 年審慎調整了回購規模，以在該市場週期數十年的低交易量期間保持財務靈活性。

Therefore, there were no share repurchases in the fourth quarter and only $4 million of share repurchases in 2023. During the fourth quarter, we paid common dividends of $0.48 per share, for a total of $133 million. We continue to view our current annual common dividend of approximately $525 million as sustainable.

因此，第四季沒有進行股票回購，2023年僅回購了400萬美元的股票。第四季度，我們支付了每股0.48美元的普通股股息，總計1.33億美元。我們仍然認為目前約 5.25 億美元的年度普通股股息是可持續的。

This concludes our prepared remarks. And let me now turn the call back to our operator for questions.

我們準備好的演講到此結束。現在讓我將電話轉回給我們的接線生詢問問題。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question comes from Bose George with KBW.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 KBW 的 Bose George。

The first question is just on the margin expectations. I know you don't really discuss sort of guidance. But when we think about 2024, assuming volumes are up only modestly and investment income down a little bit based on your guidance, is there any reason to think the margin should be up very much or sort of in the same ballpark as '23?

第一個問題是關於利潤率預期。我知道你並沒有真正討論某種指導。但當我們考慮 2024 年時，假設銷量僅小幅增長，而投資收入根據您的指導略有下降，是否有任何理由認為利潤率應該大幅上升或與 23 年大致相同？

Yes. Bose, it's Mike. I would say cautious to margins, particularly in the first quarter, probably looks a lot like last year, given the inventory volumes in the fourth quarter are lower, we do have maybe a little bit of a lower expense base that helps, but pretty cautious to the first quarter and a bit more optimistic, as we move through the year. Encouraged by the increase in resale open orders in January, up 7% over last year and the sequential improvement, I think, lines up well for maybe a modestly better purchase environment, as we go through '24.

是的。博斯，我是麥克。我想說的是，對利潤率持謹慎態度，特別是在第一季度，可能看起來很像去年，考慮到第四季度的庫存量較低，我們確實可能有一點較低的費用基礎，這有所幫助，但相當謹慎隨著我們進入這一年，第一季的情況會變得更加樂觀。受 1 月轉售未結訂單增加（比去年同期增長 7%）和環比改善的鼓舞，我認為，隨著我們進入 24 年，這可能會帶來稍微更好的購買環境。

But the real difference maker will just be what happens to rates. If we get better rates, as we go through the year, particularly in the second half, I think there's some upside to margins there. When you think about refi was up sequentially 15% in January, and that was really driven by the modest decrease in rates that we saw, kind of in the back half of December, I guess. So it's really going to be about the rates, but I think there is some potential for modestly better margins as we go through the year.

但真正的差異在於利率的變動。如果我們在今年，特別是下半年獲得更好的利率，我認為利潤率會有一些上升空間。當你想到 1 月再融資時，它連續上漲了 15%，我猜這實際上是由我們看到的利率小幅下降推動的，大概是在 12 月下半月。因此，這確實與利率有關，但我認為，隨著這一年的發展，利潤率有可能略有提高。

And Bose, maybe I'll just add on that. You mentioned the guidance on investment income, and that guidance really assumes that rates come down. And so when we got to the back half of the year, and a $75 million to $85 million investment income number. That does assume at least 100 basis points reduction. And if that happens, then the title business is doing a lot better. And so I think we still hold those margins.

Bose，也許我會補充一下。您提到了投資收益指導，該指導實際上假設利率下降。因此，當我們進入今年下半年時，投資收入將達到 7,500 萬至 8,500 萬美元。這確實假設至少減少 100 個基點。如果這種情況發生，那麼產權業務就會做得更好。所以我認為我們仍然保持著這些利潤。

Yes. That makes sense. And then just actually on the Corporate segment, it looked like the loss was a little higher than usual on the quarterly numbers. Is there -- what's sort of a reasonable number to model for that segment?

是的。這就說得通了。實際上，就企業部門而言，季度數據的虧損似乎比平常高。為該細分市場建模的合理數字是多少？

Yes, the way I would look at it is more your adjusted pretax. And I think for the fourth quarter, it was $22 million loss versus $20 million in the third quarter and roughly that in the fourth quarter of the prior year. What you're seeing is a couple of items in there, that we've carved out of normal earnings. One was $10 million related to the cybersecurity event and another item was an $8 million charge, we took to terminate an old frozen pension plan that dates back more than 20 years.

是的，我的看法比較是調整後的稅前。我認為第四季的虧損為 2,200 萬美元，而第三季的虧損為 2,000 萬美元，去年第四季的虧損也大致如此。您看到的是其中的一些項目，它們是我們從正常收入中提取出來的。其中一項是與網路安全事件相關的 1000 萬美元，另一項是 800 萬美元的費用，我們用來終止一項可以追溯到 20 多年前的舊凍結退休金計劃。

And so that was $18 million. But again, you carve that out. You're also seeing, if you're looking at the bottom line, some noise in the tax rate, we had a little movement around with valuation allowances really throughout the year, either coming -- going up or going down depending on the market and so that the tax rate may be confusing it a little bit as well.

那就是 1800 萬美元。但再一次，你把它解決了。你還會看到，如果你關注底線，稅率中會出現一些噪音，我們全年的估值津貼都發生了一些變化，要么上升，要么下降，具體取決於市場因此稅率也可能會讓人有點困惑。

And our next question comes from Mark DeVries with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的馬克‧德弗里斯。

I was hoping you could give us some more detailed thoughts on kind of -- why was the Board thought that the new $250 million investment in FG was the best use of capital here? And could you also just update us on your thoughts on kind of prioritization for capital going forward?

我希望您能給我們一些更詳細的想法——為什麼董事會認為對 FG 的 2.5 億美元新投資是這裡資本的最佳利用？您能否向我們介紹您對未來資本優先順序的最新想法？

Yes, Mark, maybe I'll start. Others can jump in as well. In terms of the $250 million, I think we may have stated this in the last call or maybe it wasn't part of it. I don't remember if we had announced it at that point. But it was really the Board looking at the performance of FG, since really the date of acquisition back in June of 2020, the strong leadership, the performance, the growth in assets and thought we could -- we have an opportunity here to continue to grow the asset base and retain those assets or we have reinsurance partners, where we could utilize that and not keep as much of those assets.

是的，馬克，也許我會開始。其他人也可以加入。就 2.5 億美元而言，我認為我們可能在上次電話會議中已經說明了這一點，或者可能不是其中的一部分。我不記得我們當時是否宣布了這一點。但這實際上是董事會在關注 FG 的業績，因為實際上自 2020 年 6 月收購之日起，強大的領導力、業績、資產增長並認為我們可以 - 我們在這裡有機會繼續擴大資產基礎並保留這些資產，或者我們有再保險合作夥伴，我們可以利用這些資產而不是保留那麼多資產。

And I think the Board, well, we have almost $1 billion in holdco cash and $250 million was a reasonable investment, especially if you can get a 7% or roughly 7% return on that over a 3-year period and get that back in equity at the end. And so I think it was just another investment, if you will, or validation of, hey, we really like what's going on at F&G, and we want to continue to invest in that and keep more of those assets.

我認為董事會，我們擁有近 10 億美元的控股公司現金，2.5 億美元是一項合理的投資，特別是如果你能在 3 年內獲得 7% 或大約 7% 的回報，然後將其收回股權在最後。所以我認為這只是另一項投資，如果你願意的話，或者驗證，嘿，我們真的很喜歡 F&G 正在發生的事情，我們希望繼續投資並保留更多這些資產。

F&G, as you know, is generating about 30% of our adjusted net earnings. And the thesis that we started with, rates go up, FG outperforms, Title underperforms, and that's pretty much played out. We see true value creation in that investment. And so I think it made a lot of sense.

如您所知，F&G 的收入約占我們調整後淨利潤的 30%。我們一開始的論點是，費率上升，FG 表現出色，Title 表現不佳，這幾乎已經結束了。我們在這項投資中看到了真正的價值創造。所以我認為這是很有意義的。

Just touching on capital allocation, I think we talked about a little bit in the prepared remarks. But if the dividend at $525 million annually, it's M&A of $200 million to $300 million, just normal course, absent some significant deal. I think we would expect to spend that. Not all of that shows up, it's holdco cash spend. Some of that is done at the subsidiary level, but you can assume that $200 million to $300 million sort of our run rate buybacks.

就資本配置而言，我想我們在準備好的發言中討論了一些內容。但如果每年股息為 5.25 億美元，那麼這就是 2 億至 3 億美元的併購，這只是正常情況，沒有重大交易。我想我們會花這個錢。並非所有這些都顯示出來，這是控股公司的現金支出。其中一些是在子公司層級完成的，但你可以假設我們的回購規模為 2 億至 3 億美元。

As you probably know, we took 2023 off, in terms of being in the market for buybacks, as we just wanted to see how this title business plays out. How the macro environment goes, how our cost cutting goes, I think it's all gone well from an expense management standpoint, but we're still at historical lows in terms of volumes. And so we're taking a look and that's why you didn't see any buyback activity there.

您可能知道，我們在回購市場方面推遲了 2023 年，因為我們只是想看看這個產權業務的表現如何。宏觀環境如何發展，我們的成本削減如何發展，我認為從費用管理的角度來看一切都進展順利，但就數量而言，我們仍處於歷史低點。所以我們正在研究，這就是為什麼你沒有看到任何回購活動。

And then, just finally, I think on the debt side of things, we feel very comfortable, other than the revolver, which we had coming due I think in 2025, we don't have any debt coming due. Now that we've extended that revolver to 2029, I think we're in a really good shape from a debt standpoint.

最後，我認為在債務方面，我們感覺非常舒服，除了左輪手槍，我認為它將於 2025 年到期，我們沒有任何到期債務。現在我們已將這一期限延長至 2029 年，我認為從債務角度來看，我們的狀況非常好。

Okay. That's really helpful. And then, am I right in thinking that the Board's conclusion that FG is a good place to deploy capital today is completely independent of any views they may have on whether holding FG inside of FNF is the most efficient place for those shares to ultimately reside? And could you just remind us on kind of when the 5-year anniversary is on the acquisition of FG?

好的。這真的很有幫助。那麼，董事會關於 FG 是當今部署資本的好地方的結論完全獨立於他們對在 FNF 內部持有 FG 是否是這些股票最終居住的最有效場所的任何觀點，我的想法是否正確？您能否提醒我們一下收購 FG 5 週年紀念日是什麼時候？

Yes, the 5-year anniversary is June of 2025. That's the point where we could spend, as long as we own at least 80% of the company, which we do, we own 85% of the company. We could spin that to our FNF shareholders tax-free. And so that is a date that people have certainly referenced, and we've answered the question. I do believe to your first comment or statement and Mike and Chris can weigh in as well. I do believe that these are independent decisions. I think at this point, the Board likes the investment and wants to continue to grow this asset, create value. But I don't think it's a statement around what we might ultimately do or not do with the asset going forward. So I think that's probably all I can say now unless others want to make a comment.

是的，5週年紀念日是2025年6月。那是我們可以花錢的時間點，只要我們擁有公司至少80%的股份，我們確實擁有公司85%的股份。我們可以將其免稅轉給我們的 FNF 股東。因此，人們肯定提到過這個日期，我們也回答了這個問題。我確實相信你的第一個評論或聲明，麥克和克里斯也可以發表意見。我確實相信這些都是獨立的決定。我認為在這一點上，董事會喜歡這項投資，並希望繼續成長這項資產，創造價值。但我不認為這是關於我們最終可能會對該資產做什麼或不做什麼的聲明。所以我想這可能是我現在能說的，除非其他人想發表評論。

I would just -- I would just agree with Tony that -- that those are independent considerations and really focused on the growth opportunities. The growth has been tremendous, doubling assets in 3 years, and the expansion in channels to sell has been incredible, and we want to take advantage of that.

我只是同意托尼的觀點，這些都是獨立的考慮因素，並且真正關注成長機會。成長是巨大的，資產在三年內翻了一番，銷售管道的擴張令人難以置信，我們希望利用這一點。

Our next question comes from Soham Bhonsle with BTIG.

我們的下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Soham Bhonsle。

Just to follow up on that last question. I mean, I guess, from your point of view, is there any concern around if we do enter sort of a lower rate environment, how that potentially affects FG's performance, right, in that scenario, and it is growing as a part of your business? Or is the view that, hey, look, rates go down, okay, maybe FG earnings do sort of decline a little bit, but they will get it back on the title side? Just wanted to get your thoughts there.

只是為了跟進最後一個問題。我的意思是，我想，從您的角度來看，如果我們確實進入某種較低的利率環境，是否會擔心這可能會如何影響FG 的表現，對吧，在這種情況下，它正在作為您的一部分而增長。商業？或者是這樣的觀點：嘿，看，利率下降了，好吧，也許 FG 的收入確實會下降一點，但他們會在冠軍方面把它拿回來？只是想了解您的想法。

Chris, do you want to maybe weigh in on your thoughts around FG's performance if interest rates come down?

Chris，如果利率下降，您是否想談談您對 FG 業績的看法？

Yes. Happy to do that. And I guess the first comment I would make is we've grown earnings consistently and the tenure has been anywhere from 39 basis points to peaking over 5%, and we've just consistently grown earnings throughout that period. So clearly, in a rising rate environment, it's easier for us to get extra spread. So I would say we get outsized earnings.

是的。很高興這樣做。我想我要發表的第一條評論是，我們的盈利持續增長，任期從 39 個基點一直到超過 5% 的峰值，而且我們在這段時間內持續增長了盈利。顯然，在利率上升的環境下，我們更容易獲得額外的利差。所以我想說我們獲得了巨額收入。

But that does not imply that we would, even necessarily see a decline in earnings. As long as we continue to grow, we continue to grow AUM, it might not be the windfall that it feels like right now with wind at the back. But we're pretty proud of our ability to deliver pretty consistent earnings. And I think that's probably an underappreciated part of the FNF stock, is the positive impact, probably the Title when rates come down and we wouldn't expect a significant drop-off on the FG side.

但這並不意味著我們會甚至必然會看到收益下降。只要我們繼續成長，我們的資產管理規模繼續成長，它可能不會像現在有風的時候感覺的那樣是意外之財。但我們對能夠提供相當穩定的收益的能力感到非常自豪。我認為這可能是 FNF 股票未被充分認識的部分，即積極影響，可能是利率下降時的標題，我們預計 FG 方面不會出現大幅下跌。

The Others, we did announce on our FG earnings call this morning that we've hedged now out about half of our floating rate exposure. That would be the one place where we would feel it relatively quickly, but I'd also remind you, a good portion of our in-force, we get to readjust pricing and margins every single year. So we can adapt to interest rates in either direction.

至於其他人，我們確實在今天早上的 FG 收益電話會議上宣布，我們現在已經對沖了大約一半的浮動利率風險。這將是我們相對快速感受到這一點的地方，但我也想提醒您，我們的很大一部分員工，我們每年都會重新調整定價和利潤。因此我們可以適應任何方向的利率。

And Soham, it's Mike. I would just add then that we would welcome a lower rate environment, given that we don't think it's a significant impact on FG and it would be a significant positive impact on the Title business.

索漢姆，是麥克。我想補充一點，我們歡迎較低的利率環境，因為我們認為這不會對 FG 產生重大影響，而會對產權業務產生重大的正面影響。

Okay. Great. And then, Tony, like when I'm looking at the residential fee per file, it was up mid-teens this quarter, much stronger than where HPA is today. I mean, I guess, what's going on there? And then on the national Commercial side, it looks like fee per file was up low double digits, as well. And that just sort of goes against sort of what we're seeing in the market. So just wanted to get your thoughts on those 2 items.

好的。偉大的。然後，托尼，當我查看每個文件的住宿費時，本季度它上漲了十幾歲左右，比今天的 HPA 強得多。我的意思是，我猜，那裡發生了什麼事？然後在國家商業方面，每個文件的費用似乎也上漲了兩位數。這與我們在市場上看到的情況背道而馳。所以只是想了解您對這兩個項目的想法。

Yes. So what I have in front of me here and maybe I need to double check it, but I show that our purchase fee per file was about $3,350 up against about $3,180 in the prior year fourth quarter, which is up about 6%. And then on the refinance side and keep in mind, refinances is very negligible at this point, about 5% of total direct revenue. But nonetheless, the refinance fee per file $1,289 basically, $1,289 versus $1,226. So up about 5%.

是的。所以我面前的情況也許我需要仔細檢查一下，但我顯示我們每個文件的購買費用約為 3,350 美元，而去年第四季的費用約為 3,180 美元，上漲了約 6%。然後在再融資方面，請記住，再融資在這一點上非常微不足道，約佔直接收入總額的 5%。但儘管如此，每份文件的再融資費用基本上為 1,289 美元，1,289 美元對 1,226 美元。所以上漲了大約5%。

So I don't know that blended to me, residential is 5% or 6%, which I think holds up relative to what the market would show overall. In terms of the Commercial, yes, I don't know. I think that's probably more a mix deal. I think we tend to have larger deals in Q4. Mike, I don't know if you have any thoughts on the Commercial fee profile and why it was...

所以我不知道住宅的混合比例是 5% 還是 6%，我認為這相對於市場的整體表現是成立的。就商業而言，是的，我不知道。我認為這可能更像是一項混合交易。我認為我們在第四季往往會有更大的交易。麥克，我不知道您對商業費用概況是否有任何想法以及為什麼...

On the Commercial, and you're right, Soham, it was significantly higher in the fourth quarter versus a pretty good number in the fourth quarter last year. It was heavily influenced by a couple of really large transactions that we had. And, so I would expect that number to kind of reconcile to more normal, as we move back into -- as we move through to '24.

在廣告方面，索漢姆，你是對的，第四季的數字明顯高於去年第四季的相當不錯的數字。它受到我們進行的幾筆非常大的交易的嚴重影響。而且，所以我預計，當我們回到 24 世紀時，這個數字會變得更加正常。

Okay. Great. And then just a quick last one. Mike, are you guys seeing any sort of fallout from just the cybersecurity impact? We're hearing some potential diversification? Just wanted to get your thoughts on the market there.

好的。偉大的。然後是最後一個。麥克，你們是否看到網路安全影響帶來的任何後果？我們聽說有一些潛在的多元化？只是想了解您對那裡市場的想法。

Yes. I really don't see that. I think the impact has been with customers negligible. I personally talked to a number of large customers, who've given no indication that there's any concerns. And I'm not really expecting, saw any impact from long-term customer relationships.

是的。我真的不明白。我認為對客戶的影響可以忽略不計。我親自與一些大客戶進行了交談，他們沒有表示有任何擔憂。我並沒有真正期待長期客戶關係會產生任何影響。

Our next question comes from John Campbell with Stephens.

我們的下一個問題來自約翰·坎貝爾和史蒂芬斯。

I wanted to revisit the M&A commentary. You guys mentioned $300 million over 10 acquisitions last year. Hoping you can maybe help with the phasing of those deals, maybe roughly what portion of the year you captured those? And then also if you could help with the sizing of the all-in contribution and maybe how much that's influencing your direct order count?

我想重新審視併購評論。你們提到去年 10 筆收購中價值 3 億美元。希望您能幫助分階段完成這些交易，也許您大約是在一年中的哪個時間段完成了這些交易？然後，您是否可以幫助確定總貢獻的大小，以及這對您的直接訂單數量的影響有多大？

Yes. I'll start. Mike can probably touch on it as well. So a lot of that, frankly, was January 1 because I think the Property Insight deal was 200-ish and that happened at the very beginning of the year. And then I think things slowed down a bit and then picked up maybe in the latter part of the year. And so a lot of the deals were smaller, not large title agent acquisitions. And so from an order count standpoint, not significant.

是的。我開始吧。麥克或許也能談到這一點。坦白說，其中很多是在 1 月 1 日，因為我認為 Property Insight 的交易金額約為 200 美元，而這發生在今年年初。然後我認為事情放緩了一點，然後可能在今年下半年有所回升。因此，許多交易都是較小規模的，而不是大型產權代理收購。因此，從訂單數量的角度來看，這並不重要。

But keep in mind, it was kind of a strange year where there's a lot of price discovery out there in terms of trying to figure out what the right price is to buy and of course, for the sellers to figure out if they can afford to sell, when their businesses are clearly off the peak. And so I think that I would expect more activity in 2024 than 2023 in terms of title agent M&A. Mike, do you want to address that?

但請記住，這是有點奇怪的一年，有很多價格發現，試圖找出合適的購買價格，當然，賣家也想知道他們是否有能力購買當他們的業務明顯脫離高峰時出售。因此，我認為 2024 年產權代理併購的活動將比 2023 年更多。麥克，你想解決這個問題嗎？

Yes. I would agree. Obviously, the dollar amount heavily weighted by the TitlePoint deal. I'm looking at the list of acquisitions, about half were in the first half and half in the second. Half of the year at '23, probably a modest impact on order counts, but I don't have a number to give you, John, as to how much it impacted order counts.

是的。我同意。顯然，TitlePoint 交易對美元金額的影響很大。我正在查看收購清單，大約一半在上半年，一半在下半年。 23 年的半年，可能對訂單數量影響不大，但約翰，我沒有具體數字可以告訴您這對訂單數量的影響有多大。

Okay. And I felt recognize the earlier acquisition that the size of it. So it seems like it's pretty immaterial, just tuck-in acquisitions across agencies. So that was what I was looking for. On the cybersecurity incident, I want to touch on maybe 2 items there. So first, on the November orders obviously affected, December jumped pretty sharply. I think your open orders were up 15% or so on purchase. How much of that was stemming from a push-out in order activity? Is there any way to size that up?

好的。我覺得體認了早期收購的規模。因此，這似乎並不重要，只是跨機構的收購。這就是我一直在尋找的東西。關於網路安全事件，我想談兩點。首先，11 月的訂單明顯受到影響，12 月的訂單大幅上漲。我認為您的未結訂單在購買時增加了 15% 左右。其中有多少是由於訂單活動的擠出造成的？有什麼辦法可以調整大小嗎？

I think it's difficult to say with certainty, but as we looked at the 2 months, it looks like, particularly when you get out of the centralized world because it's different there because you have these electronic connections with your customers and they kind of turn them off when you have a security event. But I would agree with you, our November open orders were off about 10% expectation, and that kind of lines up with the couple of days, where we were really restricted from taking orders.

我認為很難肯定地說，但當我們回顧這兩個月的情況時，尤其是當你擺脫中心化世界時，因為那裡的情況有所不同，因為你與客戶有這些電子聯繫，他們可以將他們轉變為中心化世界。當發生安全事件時關閉。但我同意你的觀點，我們 11 月的未平倉訂單比預期低了 10% 左右，這與我們接受訂單確實受到限制的幾天是一致的。

And then December, to your point, was up 15%, and I think that was definitely higher than expectations. So I really feel like the business that didn't happen in November, we just picked up in December. And when we looked at our revenues kind of on a per-day basis, the last couple of days in November and into December, I think we were just really picking up those closings. And I think it speaks to the great work that our field employees did to work with individual customers and to move transactions off of a couple of days, to the next couple of days and maybe into the next week. So I think that's why we say, the impact was very, very minimal. And I think customers work with us very well in dealing with the event.

然後 12 月，按照你的觀點，上漲了 15%，我認為這絕對高於預期。所以我真的覺得 11 月沒有發生的業務，我們在 12 月才有所恢復。當我們按天查看我們的收入時，11 月的最後幾天和 12 月，我認為我們只是真正開始了這些結帳工作。我認為這說明了我們的現場員工為與個人客戶合作並將交易從幾天轉移到接下來的幾天甚至下週所做的出色工作。所以我認為這就是為什麼我們說影響非常非常小。我認為客戶在處理該事件時與我們合作得很好。

Yes. That's great to hear. And then just moving on to the closing or the closed orders in December. I mean, if I look at the closing ratio, it was way, way below kind of what you've seen historically. I guess the question here is, do you think -- would you expect a higher closing ratio in January, as you push some of that? I'm guessing this was probably capacity issues, but maybe a higher closing ratio in January, as you catch back up on those orders?

是的。聽到這個消息我很高興。然後就進入 12 月的收盤或已關閉訂單。我的意思是，如果我看一下收盤比率，我會發現它遠低於歷史上看到的比率。我想這裡的問題是，您認為，當您推動其中一些工作時，您是否會期望一月份的收盤比率會更高？我猜這可能是產能問題，但一月份的成交率可能會更高，因為您會追趕這些訂單嗎？

I have to go back and look at those numbers, John, to give you a better answer. I would say when we look at the full year in '23, closing ratios were probably lower than historical averages. And I think that's driven by, obviously, the rate environment. I would expect, as we normalize potentially into the back end of '24 and beyond. The closing ratio should improve overall, I would say the same for Commercial.

約翰，我必須回去看看這些數字，才能給你一個更好的答案。我想說，當我們回顧 23 年全年時，收盤比率可能會低於歷史平均值。我認為這顯然是由利率環境所驅動的。我預計，隨著我們可能在 24 年底及以後實現正常化。成交率應該整體改善，我想說商業也是。

Okay. Got it. And if I could squeeze in one more. I've gotten questions about the -- growing your light position. So maybe if you could talk to that and then also the rationale behind that investment?

好的。知道了。如果我能再擠進一張就好了。我收到了一些關於增加你的燈光位置的問題。那麼也許您可以談談這一點，然後談談這項投資背後的理由？

The light position? Is that what you asked?

燈的位置？這是你問的嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes. I don't think we've grown the light position much. If we have, I think it's been pretty negligible. It hasn't crossed my radar. So I'd have to double check and get back to you on that.

是的。我認為我們並沒有將輕量位置增加太多。如果有的話，我認為這是相當微不足道的。它還沒有進入我的雷達範圍。所以我必須仔細檢查並回覆你。

(Operator Instructions) Next question comes from Mark Hughes with Truist Securities.

（操作員指令）下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Mark Hughes。

Was the $8 million frozen pension adjustment, was that adjusted out for your earnings number? Or was that still included in the expenses?

800 萬美元凍結退休金調整是根據你的收入數字進行調整的嗎？或者這仍然包含在費用中？

No, it was Mark. It was adjusted out, yes.

不，是馬克。已經調整了，是的。

Okay. All right. Very good. And then the -- inHere, you talked about $1 million contacts, up 50%. What is the penetration now at that point, if you've got 1 million folks that are using it? What is the opportunity for that to continue to grow and have an impact on expenses or revenue?

好的。好的。非常好。然後--在這裡，您談到了價值 100 萬美元的聯絡人，成長了 50%。如果有 100 萬人在使用它，那麼現在的滲透率是多少？繼續成長並對支出或收入產生影響的機會是什麼？

I think -- it's Mike, Mark. I think the potential for it to continue to grow is significant. The -- from a kind of a real estate agent transaction coordinator standpoint, I think there's still a lot of upside. And that $1 million number includes both consumers and agents and their staff. So I think there's a lot of potential there.

我想——是麥克、馬克。我認為它繼續增長的潛力是巨大的。從房地產經紀人交易協調員的角度來看，我認為仍有很大的上升空間。這 100 萬美元的數字包括消費者、代理商及其員工。所以我認為那裡有很大的潛力。

The consumer number is driven more just by the marketplace. So as more transactions occur, rates come down and more transactions occur, we'll send out more packages to consumers and more consumers will engage with us on it. And the numbers are actually suppressed given the lower market. So maybe a long-winded answer to say, I think there's still quite a bit of potential.

消費者數量較多由市場驅動。因此，隨著更多交易的發生、費率下降以及更多交易的發生，我們將向消費者發送更多包裹，更多消費者將與我們互動。鑑於市場較低，這些數字實際上受到了抑制。所以也許是一個冗長的答案，我認為仍然有很大的潛力。

And this will conclude our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the conference back over to CEO, Mike Nolan, for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我將把會議轉回執行長 Mike Nolan 致閉幕詞。

Thank you. We are proud of our very strong performance in 2023. We remain well positioned to navigate the market cycle and are continuing to build and expand our Title business for the long term. Likewise, F&G's opportunities are compelling with many prospects ahead to drive asset growth, deliver margin expansion and generate accretive returns.

謝謝。我們對 2023 年的強勁表現感到自豪。我們仍處於有利地位，能夠駕馭市場週期，並繼續長期建立和擴展我們的產權業務。同樣，F&G 的機會也引人注目，有許多前景可以推動資產成長、實現利潤成長並產生增值回報。

Thanks for your time this morning. We appreciate your interest in FNF and look forward to updating you on our first quarter earnings call.

感謝您今天早上抽出時間。我們感謝您對 FNF 的興趣，並期待在我們的第一季財報電話會議上向您通報最新情況。

Thank you for attending today's presentation, and the conference call has concluded. You may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的演示，電話會議已經結束。您現在可以斷開連線。