Fidelity National Financial Inc (FNF) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to FNF second quarter earnings call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Lisa Foxworthy-Parker, SVP, Investor and External Relations. Please go ahead.

早上好，歡迎參加 FNF 第二季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）我現在想將電話轉給投資者和對外關係高級副總裁 Lisa Foxworthy-Parker。請繼續。

Great. Thanks, operator, and welcome, everyone. Joining me today are Mike Nolan, Chief Executive Officer; and Tony Park, Chief Financial Officer. We look forward to addressing your questions following our prepared remarks. Chris Blunt, F&G's CEO; and Wendy Young, F&G's CFO, will join us for the Q&A portion of today's call.

偉大的。謝謝運營商，歡迎大家。今天加入我的是執行長 Mike Nolan；和財務長東尼·帕克。我們期待在我們準備好的發言後回答您的問題。F&G 執行長 Chris Blunt； F&G 財務長 Wendy Young 將參加我們今天電話會議的問答部分。

Today's earnings call may include forward-looking statements and projections under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act which do not guarantee future events or performance. We do not undertake any duty to revise or update such statements to reflect new information, subsequent events or changes in strategy. Please refer to our most recent quarterly and annual reports and other SEC filings for details on important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied.

今天的財報電話會議可能包括《私人證券訴訟改革法案》下的前瞻性陳述和預測，這些陳述和預測不保證未來的事件或績效。我們不承擔任何修改或更新此類聲明以反映新資訊、後續事件或策略變更的責任。請參閱我們最近的季度和年度報告以及其他 SEC 文件，以了解可能導致實際結果與明示或暗示的結果有重大差異的重要因素的詳細資訊。

This morning's discussion also includes non-GAAP financial measures that we believe may be meaningful to investors. Non-GAAP measures have been reconciled to GAAP where required in accordance with SEC rules within our earnings materials available on our website at fnf.com. Today's call is being recorded, and a webcast replay will be available on our website.

今天早上的討論還包括我們認為可能對投資者有意義的非公認會計準則財務指標。根據我們網站 fnf.com 上提供的獲利資料中 SEC 規則的要求，非 GAAP 指標已與 GAAP 進行了調整。今天的通話正在錄音，我們的網站上將提供網路廣播重播。

And now I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Mike Nolan.

現在我將把電話轉給我們的執行長麥克諾蘭。

Thank you, Lisa, and good morning. We are pleased to report another strong set of results for the third quarter. I'd like to start by thanking our employees as we work together through this challenging real estate cycle while continuing to deliver industry-leading performance.

謝謝你，麗莎，早安。我們很高興地報告第三季另一組強勁的業績。首先，我要感謝我們的員工，我們在這個充滿挑戰的房地產週期中共同努力，同時繼續提供業界領先的業績。

I would also like to acknowledge the incredible response to the 2 major hurricanes that made landfall in recent weeks, impacting several southeastern states. I am grateful for the unwavering dedication and resilience demonstrated by our people and first responders throughout these storms and want to extend our heartfelt thoughts to all those who have been affected by these natural disasters.

我還要感謝最近幾週登陸、影響東南部幾個州的兩場大型颶風所做出的令人難以置信的反應。我感謝我們的人民和急救人員在這些風暴中所表現出的堅定不移的奉獻精神和堅韌精神，並向所有受到這些自然災害影響的人們致以衷心的哀悼。

Now turning to our third quarter results. Our Title business continues to successfully navigate the low transactional environment having delivered adjusted pretax earnings of $323 million in an industry-leading adjusted pretax title margin of 15.9%, as compared to 16.2% in the third quarter of 2023. These are outstanding results given the environment.

現在轉向我們的第三季業績。我們的產權業務持續成功應對低交易環境，調整後稅前收益達 3.23 億美元，調整後稅前產權利潤率為 15.9%，處於行業領先地位，而 2023 年第三季為 16.2%。考慮到環境，這些都是出色的結果。

For the third quarter, we continue to see normal seasonality with daily purchase opened orders showing an 8% sequential decline from the second quarter. Within the quarter's results, however, we saw daily purchase orders opened in September higher than August. This is atypical and due to a decline in rates, and we believe is indicative of the pent-up demand for housing.

第三季度，我們繼續看到正常的季節性，每日採購訂單量較第二季較上季下降 8%。然而，在本季的業績中，我們發現 9 月的每日採購訂單高於 8 月。這是非典型的，是由於利率下降造成的，我們認為這表明住房需求被壓抑。

Refinance volumes have been responsive as 30-year mortgage rates decreased by over 75 basis points during the third quarter. This generated an average increase in refinance orders opened to $1,400 per day in the third quarter, with July at $1,100, August at $1,400 and September at $1,800. With the increase in mortgage rates in October, we saw refinance orders opened to back down to $1,500 per day reflecting how refinance volumes can change with moves in rates.

再融資量反應靈敏，第三季 30 年期抵押貸款利率下降了 75 個基點以上。這導致第三季每天開立的再融資訂單平均增加至 1,400 美元，其中 7 月為 1,100 美元，8 月為 1,400 美元，9 月為 1,800 美元。隨著 10 月抵押貸款利率的上升，我們看到再融資訂單回落至每天 1,500 美元，這反映出再融資量如何隨利率變動而變化。

Commercial volumes continue to be steady and resilient. We generated direct commercial revenue of $801 million in the first nine months, trending in line with the $1 billion annual revenue level that we delivered in 2015 through 2020 and in 2023. Asset classes have remained very consistent as well.

商業量持續穩定且富有彈性。前 9 個月，我們的直接商業收入為 8.01 億美元，與我們在 2015 年至 2020 年和 2023 年實現的 10 億美元的年收入水準一致。資產類別也保持非常一致。

Looking ahead to 2025, we see the potential for higher commercial volumes as the office sector begins to transact and expect continued strength in the industrial, multifamily and energy sectors, among others.

展望 2025 年，隨著辦公大樓開始交易，我們看到商業交易量增加的潛力，並預期工業、多戶住宅和能源等領域將持續強勁。

Looking at third quarter volumes more closely. Daily purchase orders opened were up 1% over the third quarter of 2023, down 8% from the second quarter of 2024 and up 5% for the month of October versus the prior year. Our refinance orders opened per day were up 46% over the third quarter of 2023, up 35% over the second quarter of 2024, and up 51% for the month of October versus the prior year. Our total commercial orders opened were $794 per day, up 2% over the third quarter of 2023, down 1% from the second quarter of 2024 and up 8% for the month of October versus the prior year. Overall, total orders opened averaged $5,500 per day in the third quarter with July at $5,200, August at $5,300 and September at $6,000. For the month of October, total orders opened were $5,200 per day, down 13% versus September.

更仔細地觀察第三季的銷售量。每日未結帳採購訂單較 2023 年第三季成長 1%，較 2024 年第二季下降 8%，10 月較去年同期成長 5%。我們每天開立的再融資訂單比 2023 年第三季成長 46%，比 2024 年第二季成長 35%，10 月比去年同期成長 51%。我們的商業訂單總額為每天 794 美元，比 2023 年第三季成長 2%，比 2024 年第二季下降 1%，10 月比去年同期成長 8%。總體而言，第三季平均每天開倉訂單總額為 5,500 美元，其中 7 月為 5,200 美元，8 月為 5,300 美元，9 月為 6,000 美元。10 月的每日訂單總額為 5,200 美元，比 9 月下降 13%。

Notably, our adjusted pretax title margin of 14.5% for the first nine months of 2024 is in line with the 14.3% margin for the first nine months of 2023. As a reminder, for the full year 2023, our pretax title margin was 13.7%, which was an outstanding result in light of the persistent housing market downturn. We would expect the normal seasonal purchase falloff for the remainder of 2024 if mortgage rates remain at current levels. If mortgage rates move lower next year, we are poised to capture the upside from higher transactional volumes given the scale and efficiencies of our diversified national footprint.

值得注意的是，我們 2024 年前 9 個月的調整後稅前產權利潤率為 14.5%，與 2023 年前 9 個月的 14.3% 利潤率一致。需要提醒的是，2023 年全年，我們的稅前產權利潤率為 13.7%，鑑於房地產市場持續低迷，這是一個出色的成績。如果抵押貸款利率保持在當前水平，我們預計 2024 年剩餘時間購買量將出現正常的季節性下降。如果明年抵押貸款利率下降，考慮到我們多元化的全國足跡的規模和效率，我們準備從交易量增加中獲益。

On an annual basis, we view the range for a normalized adjusted pretax title margin of 15% to 20% as a good rule of thumb, although we are not in a normal market due to the low residential purchase and refinance volumes. We firmly believe in the long-term value of the title insurance business regardless of the cyclical nature of the real estate market. Despite the challenging market, we have continued to invest in our business, actively recruiting talent to drive revenue, making strategic acquisitions and investing in technology, all while maintaining industry-leading margins.

以年度計算，我們認為 15% 至 20% 的正常化調整稅前產權利潤率範圍是一個很好的經驗法則，儘管由於住宅購買和再融資量較低，我們並不處於正常市場。無論房地產市場的周期性如何，我們都堅信產權保險業務的長期價值。儘管市場充滿挑戰，我們仍繼續投資於我們的業務，積極招募人才以增加收入，進行策略性收購並投資於技術，同時保持業界領先的利潤率。

Our technology initiatives are a key focus for investment and deployment across our operational footprint. We continue to build on our pioneering work over the last decade in instant decisioning and automated underwriting, without diminishing the coverage or value of our insurance product. At the same time, we are enhancing our customer experience throughout the transaction while giving special attention to mitigating risk and fraud.

我們的技術舉措是整個營運範圍內投資和部署的重點。我們繼續在過去十年中在即時決策和自動承保方面的開創性工作的基礎上繼續發展，而不會減少我們保險產品的承保範圍或價值。同時，我們在整個交易過程中增強客戶體驗，同時特別關注降低風險和詐欺。

SoftPro now powers all of our direct residential operations and is integrated into our proprietary InHere experience platform. InHere continues to be a vital expanding resource for our customers. We had over 1 million real estate professionals and consumers use InHere in 2023, and we are well ahead of that level so far this year.

SoftPro 現在為我們所有的直接住宅營運提供支持，並整合到我們專有的 InHere 體驗平台中。InHere 仍然是我們客戶重要的擴展資源。到 2023 年，我們有超過 100 萬名房地產專業人士和消費者使用 InHere，今年迄今為止我們已經遠遠領先於此水準。

On the AI front, our high-quality curated data and single platform have allowed us to standardize, automate and use machine learning AI tools in many aspects of our business over the last 15 years. In turn, this has reduced the cost and time lines of the title search and exam process while preserving the coverage and value of our insurance product.

在人工智慧方面，在過去 15 年裡，我們高品質的精選數據和單一平台使我們能夠在業務的許多方面實現標準化、自動化和使用機器學習人工智慧工具。反過來，這減少了產權搜尋和考試過程的成本和時間，同時保留了我們保險產品的承保範圍和價值。

Looking ahead, we are investing in further innovation with generative AI tools, exploring their potential to enhance various aspects of our business, including the title and settlement processes.

展望未來，我們將投資於生成式人工智慧工具的進一步創新，探索它們增強我們業務各個方面的潛力，包括產權和結算流程。

Turning now to our F&G business. F&G has profitably grown assets under management before flow reinsurance to a record $62.9 billion at the end of the third quarter. F&G is well positioned for continued growth through its diversified new business platform and benefits from expanding profitability as its in-force book continues to scale. F&G is also executing on its accretive flow reinsurance and owned distribution strategies, which are contributing to margin expansion and improved returns. Tony will provide additional details in a few moments.

現在談談我們的 F&G 業務。截至第三季末，F&G 在流量再保險之前管理的資產已實現盈利增長，達到創紀錄的 629 億美元。F&G 透過其多元化的新業務平台處於持續成長的有利地位，並隨著其有效帳簿的不斷擴大而受益於不斷擴大的獲利能力。F&G 還執行其增值流量再保險和自有分銷策略，這有助於擴大利潤率和提高回報。托尼稍後將提供更多詳細資訊。

FNF benefits from its majority ownership of F&G through its share of F&G's durable and growing earnings, cash dividend streams and recognition of the value of F&G's market capitalization, which has increased from $2.9 billion at the time of the partial spin-off in December of 2022, to $5.6 billion at September 30 on a stand-alone basis. With that, let me now turn the call over to Tony to review FNF's third quarter financial performance and provide additional highlights.

FNF 受益於其對 F&G 的多數股權，透過分享 F&G 持久且不斷增長的收益、現金股息流以及對 F&G 市值價值的認可（F&G 市值已從 2022 年 12 月部分分拆時的 29 億美元增加）截至9 月30 日，單獨價值增至56 億美元。現在，讓我將電話轉給托尼，回顧 FNF 第三季度的財務表現並提供更多亮點。

Thank you, Mike. Starting with our consolidated results, we generated $3.6 billion in total revenue in the third quarter. Excluding net recognized gains and losses, our total revenue was $3.3 billion as compared with $3.1 billion in the third quarter of 2023. We reported third quarter net earnings of $266 million, including net recognized gains of $269 million versus $426 million, including $356 million of net recognized losses in the third quarter of 2023. The net recognized gains and losses in each period are primarily due to mark-to-market accounting treatment of equity and preferred stock securities, whether the securities were disposed of in the quarter or continued to be held in our investment portfolio.

謝謝你，麥克。從我們的綜合業績開始，我們第三季的總收入為 36 億美元。不計淨確認損益，我們的總收入為 33 億美元，而 2023 年第三季為 31 億美元。我們公佈的第三季淨利為 2.66 億美元，其中確認淨收益為 2.69 億美元，而 2023 年第三季確認淨虧損為 4.26 億美元，其中確認淨虧損為 3.56 億美元。每個期間的淨確認損益主要是由於對股權和優先股證券按市值計價的會計處理所致，無論這些證券是在本季度處置還是繼續持有在我們的投資組合中。

Adjusted net earnings were $356 million or $1.30 per diluted share, compared with $333 million or $1.23 per share for the third quarter of 2023. The Title segment contributed $244 million, the F&G segment contributed $135 million, and the Corporate segment contributed $3 million before eliminating $26 million of dividend income from F&G in the consolidated financial statements.

調整後淨利為 3.56 億美元，即稀釋後每股收益 1.30 美元，而 2023 年第三季為 3.33 億美元，即每股 1.23 美元。Title 部門貢獻了 2.44 億美元，F&G 部門貢獻了 1.35 億美元，企業部門貢獻了 300 萬美元，然後在合併財務報表中抵銷了 F&G 的 2,600 萬美元股息收入。

Turning to the third quarter financial highlights specific to the Title segment. Our Title segment generated $2 billion in total revenue in the third quarter, excluding net recognized gains of $63 million compared with $1.9 billion in the third quarter of 2023. Direct premiums increased 9% versus the prior year, agency premiums increased 8%, and escrow title related and other fees increased 1%. Personnel costs increased 5% and other operating expenses increased 5%. All in, the Title business generated adjusted pretax Title earnings of $323 million compared with $311 million for the third quarter of 2023 and a 15.9% adjusted pretax title margin for the quarter versus 16.2% in the prior year quarter.

轉向特定於遊戲領域的第三季財務亮點。我們的遊戲業務第三季總收入為 20 億美元，不包括 6,300 萬美元的淨確認收益，而 2023 年第三季為 19 億美元。直接保費比上年增加 9%，代理保費增加 8%，託管所有權相關費用和其他費用增加 1%。人員成本增加 5%，其他營運費用增加 5%。總而言之，產權業務調整後稅前產權收益為 3.23 億美元，而 2023 年第三季為 3.11 億美元，本季調整後稅前產權利潤率為 15.9%，去年同期為 16.2%。

Our Title and Corporate investment portfolio totaled $5 billion at September 30. Interest and investment income in the Title and Corporate segments was $103 million, a modest decline from the prior year quarter and excluding income from F&G dividends to the holding company. Looking ahead, we expect quarterly interest and investment income to trend down from the $103 million in Q3 to around $95 million in Q4 and to $85 million in Q3 of 2025, assuming anticipated Fed funds rate cuts of 100 basis points over the next 9 months. As a rule of thumb and all else being equal, every 25 basis point decrease in Fed funds is expected to result in an approximate $15 million annualized decline in interest and investment income.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的產權和企業投資組合總額達 50 億美元。產權和企業部門的利息和投資收入為 1.03 億美元，較上年同期略有下降（不包括向控股公司支付的 F&G 股息收入）。展望未來，假設聯邦基金利率預計在未來9 個月內降息100 個基點，我們預計2025 年季度利息和投資收入將從第三季的1.03 億美元下降至第四季的9,500 萬美元左右，第三季度降至8500 萬美元。根據經驗，在其他條件相同的情況下，聯邦基金每減少 25 個基點預計將導致利息和投資收入年化減少約 1500 萬美元。

In addition, we expect over $100 million of annual dividend income from F&G to the corporate segment. This cash return reflects approximately 85% of F&G's common dividend, given our majority ownership stake and 100% of F&G's preferred dividend on the mandatory convertible preferred stock issued to FNF in January 2024.

此外，我們預計 F&G 向企業部門提供的年度股息收入將超過 1 億美元。鑑於我們的多數股權以及 2024 年 1 月向 FNF 發行的強制可轉換優先股的 F&G 100% 優先股，這一現金回報反映了 F&G 約 85% 的普通股股息。

our Title claims paid of $64 million were $3 million higher than our provision of $61 million for the third quarter. The carried reserve for Title claim losses is approximately $29 million or 2% above the actuary central estimate. We continue to provide for Title claims at 4.5% of total Title premiums.

我們支付的產權索賠金額為 6,400 萬美元，比第三季的準備金 6,100 萬美元高出 300 萬美元。產權索賠損失的附帶準備金約為 2,900 萬美元，比精算中央估計高出 2%。我們繼續以總產權保費的 4.5% 提供產權索賠。

Next, turning to financial highlights specific to the F&G segment. Since F&G hosted its earnings call earlier this morning and provided a thorough update, I will recap a few key highlights for the quarter. F&G delivered strong gross sales of $3.9 billion in the third quarter, up 39% over the prior year quarter. Retail sales were a record $3.5 billion, nearly double the prior year quarter. F&G's retail sales continued to surge driven by favorable market conditions and strong demand for retirement savings products, benefiting from a significant demographic trend with a long tail as consumers want to secure the relatively higher rates, guaranteed tax deferred growth and principal protection that annuities provide. Pension risk transfer sales were over $300 million in the third quarter.

接下來，轉向 F&G 細分市場的具體財務亮點。由於 F&G 今天早上早些時候召開了財報電話會議並提供了全面的更新信息，我將回顧一下本季度的一些關鍵亮點。F&G 第三季的總銷售額強勁，達到 39 億美元，比去年同期成長 39%。零售額達到創紀錄的 35 億美元，幾乎是去年同期的兩倍。在有利的市場條件和對退休儲蓄產品的強勁需求的推動下，F&G 的零售額繼續飆升，受益於顯著的長尾人口趨勢，因為消費者希望獲得相對較高的利率、有保證的稅收遞延增長以及年金提供的本金保護。第三季退休金風險轉移銷售額超過 3 億美元。

F&G's net sales were $2.4 billion in the third quarter, up 4% over the prior year quarter. F&G has profitably grown its AUM before flow reinsurance to a record $62.9 billion, including retained assets under management of $52.5 billion at the end of the third quarter. Adjusted net earnings for the F&G segment were $135 million in the third quarter. This includes alternative investment returns below our long-term expectations by $35 million or $0.13 per share and significant income items of $16 million or $0.06 per share.

F&G 第三季的淨銷售額為 24 億美元，比去年同期成長 4%。F&G 的流量再保險前資產管理規模已實現盈利增長，達到創紀錄的 629 億美元，其中包括第三季末管理的保留資產 525 億美元。第三季 F&G 部門調整後淨利為 1.35 億美元。這包括另類投資回報低於我們的長期預期 3,500 萬美元或每股 0.13 美元，以及 1,600 萬美元或每股 0.06 美元的重大收入項目。

To bring it all together, FNF's consolidated adjusted net earnings, excluding significant items in the F&G segment, were $375 million or $1.37 per diluted share in the third quarter. The combined businesses are performing as expected. F&G gives stability to our earnings regardless of whether rates are rising or falling, providing an important complement to our cyclical title business. The F&G segment contributed 39% of FNF's adjusted net earnings for the first nine months of 2024, up from 29% for the first nine months of 2023.

總而言之，FNF 第三季的綜合調整後淨利（不包括 F&G 部門的重要項目）為 3.75 億美元，即稀釋後每股收益 1.37 美元。合併後的業務表現符合預期。無論費率上升或下降，F&G 都能使我們的收益保持穩定，為我們的周期性產權業務提供重要補充。F&G 部門佔 FNF 2024 年前 9 個月調整後淨利的 39%，高於 2023 年前 9 個月的 29%。

From a capital and liquidity perspective, we are maintaining a strong balance sheet and ensuring a balanced capital allocation strategy as we navigate the current environment. We held $822 million in cash and short-term liquid investments at the holding company level at September 30. This is up $126 million compared to the sequential quarter despite the low volumes in the Title business. Our consolidated debt outstanding was $4.2 billion at September 30. In early October, F&G issued $500 million of senior notes, and net proceeds have been used to fully pay down its $365 million revolver balance with the remainder to be used for general corporate purposes.

從資本和流動性的角度來看，我們在當前環境中保持強勁的資產負債表並確保平衡的資本配置策略。截至 9 月 30 日，我們在控股公司層級持有 8.22 億美元現金和短期流動投資。儘管產權業務量較低，但與上一季相比仍增加了 1.26 億美元。截至 9 月 30 日，我們的綜合未償債務為 42 億美元。10月初，F&G發行了5億美元的優先票據，所得淨收益已用於全額償還其3.65億美元的循環餘額，其餘部分將用於一般公司用途。

Our consolidated debt to capitalization ratio, excluding AOCI, remains in line with our long-term target range of 20% to 30%, and we expect that our balance sheet will naturally delever as shareholders' equity excluding AOCI grows. Our primary capital allocation priorities support our now $550 million annual dividend commitment, modest $80 million annual interest expense at the holding company level and $200 million to $300 million average annual strategic title acquisition spend in support of the long-term growth of the business.

我們的綜合債務與資本比率（不包括 AOCI）仍符合我們 20% 至 30% 的長期目標範圍，我們預計，隨著不包括 AOCI 的股東權益的增長，我們的資產負債表將自然減少。我們的主要資本配置優先事項支持我們目前5.5 億美元的年度股息承諾、控股公司層面8000 萬美元的適度年度利息支出以及2 億至3 億美元的平均年度戰略所有權收購支出，以支持業務的長期增長。

Given the continued uncertainty in the market, there were no share repurchases in the third quarter. We will continue to monitor and expect to resume buybacks once both the title market picks up and we see our cash generation building above the level of our annual dividend, interest expense and acquisition spend. As a reminder, buybacks are subject to Board approval.

鑑於市場持續存在不確定性，第三季沒有進行股票回購。我們將繼續監控並預計，一旦產權市場回暖，並且我們看到我們的現金產生能力高於年度股息、利息支出和收購支出的水平，我們將恢復回購。提醒一下，回購須經董事會批准。

This concludes our prepared remarks, and let me now turn the call back to our operator for questions.

我們準備好的演講到此結束，現在讓我將電話轉回給我們的接線生詢問問題。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now be conducting a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。女士們、先生們，我們現在將進行問答環節。（操作員說明）

John Campbell, Stephens.

約翰坎貝爾、史蒂芬斯.

Yes, good morning. On the total pretax margin for the quarter, it looks like direct and agency kind of grew at the same rate. You had investment income that was kind of flat year-over-year. So it doesn't seem like there's really any mix shift changes to call out. It looks like the underlying incremental margin was about, I think, about 10% or 11%. You guys have closely run at probably 30% to 40% in the past. Is there anything you'd call out as far as limiting factors?

是的，早安。就本季的稅前總利潤率而言，直接利潤率和代理利潤率似乎以相同的速度增長。你的投資收入與去年同期持平。因此，似乎並沒有真正需要進行任何混合轉變的改變。我認為，潛在的增量利潤率似乎約為 10% 或 11%。你們過去的跑步成績大概是 30% 到 40%。就限制因素而言，您有什麼要指出的嗎？

John, it's Mike. I mean, in terms of comparing to the third quarter of last year, we actually had a bit of outperformance in both direct and agency to the third quarter. We had a 30-point difference in margin to actual third quarter last year. That's about $6 million difference. So when you think about $2 billion in revenue, that's not much of a difference. But -- we did see in some of our nontitle businesses in the Title segment, slightly below performance in the third quarter, not that the performance was not good. It was just a little bit better last year.

約翰，是麥克。我的意思是，與去年第三季相比，我們在直接和代理商方面的表現實際上都比第三季好一些。我們的利潤率與去年第三季的實際利潤率存在 30 個百分點的差異。這大約是 600 萬美元的差異。因此，當你考慮 20 億美元的收入時，這並沒有多大區別。但是，我們確實看到我們的一些非標題業務在標題部分的表現略低於第三季度，但這並不是說表現不好。去年的情況只是好一點。

So really, my takeaway is we had outperformance both in national commercial and agency. Of course, the agency comes with a lower margin. So that can also -- you can get more agency revenue, and that's a good thing, but you could have lower margins because of the other things being equal.

所以說真的，我的結論是我們在全國商業和代理商方面都表現出色。當然，該機構的利潤較低。所以這也可以——你可以獲得更多的代理收入，這是一件好事，但由於其他條件相同，你的利潤率可能會較低。

Yes. That's a very good point. It's -- if you look at the incremental margin, we talked about that 40% or whatever it is, that's on direct revenue on our direct operations. So actually, if we do better on the agency side, as you know, because so much goes back to the agent that incremental margins on Agency business is probably somewhere in the 10% range.

是的。這是一個很好的觀點。如果你看看增量利潤，我們談到了 40% 或其他什麼，這是我們直接營運的直接收入。所以實際上，如果我們在代理商方面做得更好，如您所知，因為代理業務的增量利潤可能在 10% 左右，所以代理業務的增量利潤可能會回饋給代理商。

Okay. Got it. And then it was encouraging to hear your kind of upbeat outlook for Commercial. I guess based on the pipeline you see now, and it does seem like that the fee for file helped you a little bit in this quarter. But based on what you see now, maybe some commentary on what you expect as far as super file in Commercial in 4Q? And then as you think about next year, again, going back to your bullish take, do you think that's -- that the Commercial growth was more likely to be driven by orders or overall fee per file?

好的。知道了。然後聽到您對商業的樂觀前景令人鼓舞。我想根據您現在看到的流程，文件費用似乎在本季對您有所幫助。但根據您現在所看到的情況，也許您對第四季度商業超級文件的期望有一些評論？然後，當您考慮明年時，再次回到您的看漲觀點，您是否認為商業成長更有可能由訂單或每個文件的總體費用驅動？

Yes, it's a great question, John. It's Mike again. We are encouraged by commercial for a number of reasons. One, we just continue to see strength in various asset classes and are generating somewhere around $1 billion to $1.1 billion in annual commercial direct revenues really without much of an office market. So as that market begins to transact, and we think it will, it's a matter of when we see that as a net positive.

是的，這是一個很好的問題，約翰。又是麥克。基於多種原因，我們受到商業的鼓勵。第一，我們繼續看到各種資產類別的實力，並且在沒有太多辦公市場的情況下每年產生約 10 億至 11 億美元的商業直接收入。因此，當該市場開始交易時（我們認為會如此），問題就在於我們何時將其視為淨利好。

When we look at our orders through September, our -- our open orders are up about 4%, but our national orders are up 10% through September. And in October, our national orders were up 16% over last October. So we're seeing this real strength in the bigger deals, right? And when you look at national fee per file, it was in excess of -- it was [14.5%] in the third quarter and local was around 9%. So I think that bodes well for not only the fourth quarter, but really into next year that we've got a nice inventory of these bigger transactions and still have local kind of flattish to last year.

當我們查看截至 9 月的訂單時，我們的未平倉訂單增加了約 4%，但截至 9 月我們的全國訂單增加了 10%。10月份，我們的全國訂單比去年10月份增加了16%。所以我們在更大的交易中看到了這種真正的力量，對嗎？當你查看每個文件的國家費用時，第三季的費用超過了 [14.5%]，而本地費用約為 9%。因此，我認為這不僅對第四季度是個好兆頭，而且對明年來說也是個好兆頭，我們已經擁有了這些較大交易的良好庫存，並且本地交易仍與去年持平。

Makes sense. Thank us. Thanks.

有道理。謝謝我們。謝謝。

Mark Hughes, Truist Securities.

馬克休斯，Truist 證券公司。

Thank you. Good morning. The October commercial number you gave up what, 8% year-over-year. I think when you were describing the progression on a monthly basis, it seems like it was a little down from September kind of steady with earlier in the quarter. Was October kind of an easy comp year-over-year? Or is that kind of up to start out 4Q, do you think that will be sustained if current trends hold?

謝謝。早安.10月份的商業數字你放棄了多少，比去年同期8%。我認為，當您描述每月的進度時，似乎比 9 月略有下降，與本季早些時候的情況保持穩定。10 月的比較比較容易嗎？或者這種情況會在第四季開始出現，您認為如果目前的趨勢持續下去，這種情況會持續嗎？

Yes. Last October, -- we opened (inaudible) a day, and that was down from September at (inaudible). And so I don't know if you call it an easy comprehend, but we typically see Mark, I think you know fall off in open orders in the fourth quarter in commercial and then we see more closings. The closing rate gets a little bit higher. This October, it didn't fall off as much as last year. And so I think that's a net positive. I think it shows strength in the open order activity in commercial. And again, pointing out that the national commercial orders were up more significantly in October. And I think that helped create that 8% overall increase as well.

是的。去年 10 月，我們開業了（聽不清楚）一天，比 9 月的營業額有所下降（聽不清楚）。所以我不知道你是否認為這很容易理解，但我們通常會看到馬克，我想你知道商業領域第四季度的未結訂單下降，然後我們看到更多的結單。成交率稍微高一點。今年10月，跌幅沒有去年那麼大。所以我認為這是一個淨積極的結果。我認為這顯示了商業領域開放訂單活動的實力。再次指出，10月份全國商業訂單增幅較為明顯。我認為這也有助於創造 8% 的整體成長。

Yes. When we think about the -- I think you gave a number $1.37 in overall earnings ex the other items, I think you called out maybe $0.06 perhaps. Did I hear that properly? And then -- the -- I think you said at F&G, they were $0.13 below expectations on some of the (inaudible) portfolio, I guess, if that had been in line, would you add the $0.13 to the $1.37. Is that the right progression there?

是的。當我們考慮時，我認為您給出的除其他項目外的總收益為 1.37 美元，我認為您可能給出了 0.06 美元。我聽得對嗎？然後- 我想你在F&G 說過，他們對某些（聽不清楚）投資組合的預期比預期低0.13 美元，我想，如果這符合預期，你會在1.37 美元的基礎上加上0.13 美元嗎？這是正確的進展嗎？

Okay. Yes, I do see that. And then on F&G, just sort of curious, I missed the earlier call, the outlook for sales and spreads. Just kind of a quick thoughts in that business would be helpful.

好的。是的，我確實看到了。然後在 F&G 上，出於好奇，我錯過了之前的電話會議，即銷售和利差的前景。只要快速思考一下該業務就會有所幫助。

Sure. This is Chris. Yes. New sales continue to be quite robust. Some of that is this great refinancing that we've talked about before people exchanging policies written when rates were 2% to new policies today. And we've been getting more than our fair share of that, which has been good. Some of it is just the long-term demographics that are taking place. And so yes, we're still quite optimistic in terms of sales growth. So we don't see anything (inaudible) down there. And spreads have held up nicely, and we've got expansion coming from flow reinsurance, owned distribution activity is kicking in. So I know the trend lines are quite good.

當然。這是克里斯。是的。新銷量持續相當強勁。其中一些就是我們在人們將利率為 2% 時制定的保單交換為今天的新保單之前討論過的偉大的再融資。我們得到的收益超出了我們應得的份額，這很好。其中一些只是正在發生的長期人口統計。所以，是的，我們對銷售成長仍然相當樂觀。所以我們在那裡看不到任何東西（聽不見）。利差保持得很好，我們的擴張來自流量再保險，自有分銷活動正在啟動。所以我知道趨勢線非常好。

Thank you for them.

謝謝你們。

Mark DeVries, Deutsche Bank.

馬克‧德弗里斯，德意志銀行。

Yes, thanks. Just a follow-up on the Commercial, Mike, I think you alluded to at least some optimism that office is starting to transact. Are you actually seeing that in the pipeline? Or is it just either in terms of transactions already or activity picking up? Or is that built more on just kind of an expectation that things are loosening up and should accelerate in 2025?

是的，謝謝。只是廣告的後續行動，麥克，我認為你至少暗示了辦公室開始進行交易的一些樂觀情緒。您真的看到了這一點嗎？或者只是就已經發生的交易或活動的回升而言？或者這更多是基於一種預期，即事情正在放鬆並且應該在 2025 年加速？

I think it's based on a couple of things, Mark. We're seeing some transactions, but I would say not a trend more on the margin. So we've seen evidence that we're starting to see some transactions, and then based on what we're hearing from our commercial leadership team who are talking to customers and clients that there's an expectation that there could be more activity as we go into '25.

我認為這是基於幾件事，馬克。我們看到了一些交易，但我想說，這不是一種邊緣趨勢。因此，我們已經看到證據表明我們開始看到一些交易，然後根據我們從與客戶和客戶交談的商業領導團隊那裡聽到的消息，預計隨著我們的進展，可能會有更多活動進入'25 。

Okay. Got it. And then a question for Chris. I think in the press release, as you alluded to some strength in the (inaudible) pipeline and kind of some early ones in Q4. Maybe it's actually a question for Tony, but could you just discuss the current capital at FG? Is that enough to support the opportunity you're seeing? Or could there be need opportunity for another capital infusion from FNF? .

好的。知道了。然後問克里斯一個問題。我認為在新聞稿中，正如您提到的（聽不清楚）管道中的一些優勢以及第四季度的一些早期優勢。也許這實際上是托尼的問題，但你能討論一下 FG 目前的資本嗎？這足以支持您看到的機會嗎？或是是否需要 FNF 再次注資的機會？。

Yes. No, we're pretty comfortable managing the sales growth that we have without requiring an equity infusion from FNF is the short answer. We did do about $800 million of PRT transactions in October. So through 10 months of this year, we're over $2 billion now of PRT sales. But we run the business with the intention of being capital self-sufficient.

是的。不，我們很樂意管理我們的銷售成長，而不需要 FNF 的股權注入，這是簡單的答案。10 月我們確實進行了約 8 億美元的 PRT 交易。因此，今年 10 個月以來，我們的 PRT 銷售額現已超過 20 億美元。但我們經營業務的目的是要實現資本自給自足。

Okay. Got it. And just 1 more quick one. Any impact on Q4 closings from the hurricanes?

好的。知道了。還有 1 個快的。颶風對第四季的關閉有何影響？

There would be some -- it's Mike, Mark. I would say we'll have some impact, particularly in our Florida direct market. I don't think it will be significant. It could be a magnitude of maybe $1 million in revenue a month for a couple of months, but I don't think it's anything of significance as we think about the quarter.

會有一些——是麥克、馬克。我想說我們會產生一些影響，特別是在佛羅裡達州的直接市場。我認為這不會有什麼重大意義。幾個月內每月的收入可能達到 100 萬美元，但我認為當我們考慮本季時，這沒有什麼意義。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Bose George, KBW.

博斯·喬治，KBW。

Good morning. Can you talk about the first nationwide acquisition? How meaningful is that in terms of what it could do for you guys in the office market?

早安.能談談首次全國收購案嗎？就它對辦公市場的幫助而言，這有多有意義？

Yes, good question, Bose. I would say it's another acquisition in the agency space, like we've done all along, these are not major acquisitions. You're talking agencies that we're buying that may have generally $10 million to $20 million in revenue.

是的，問得好，Bose。我想說，這是代理領域的另一次收購，就像我們一直以來所做的那樣，這些都不是重大收購。您所說的是我們正在購買的代理機構，其收入通常可能為 1000 萬至 2000 萬美元。

They're a very well-established player in the New York market, very well known there, and we're excited to have them join the team and really just give us another brand to kind of build upon. And I think as the New York market comes back, and it will, it's just a matter of when, that acquisition will really pay off for us just to have another group there that's accessing market share in the New York market.

他們是紐約市場上非常成熟的參與者，在那裡非常有名，我們很高興他們加入我們的團隊，這實際上只是為我們提供了另一個可以建立的品牌。我認為，隨著紐約市場的復甦，而且它會回來，這只是時間問題，這次收購將真正為我們帶來回報，只是讓另一個集團能夠獲得紐約市場的市場份額。

Okay. Great. And then actually, 1 question just on the post-election landscape. Just with the changes that are likely to happen, I mean the -- like things like the GSE, the FHAP pilot and the CFPB efforts, do you think things are likely to get put on hold? Or any sort of updates and thoughts post election?

好的。偉大的。實際上，有一個問題是關於選舉後的情況。我的意思是，就可能發生的變化而言，例如 GSE、FHAP 試點和 CFPB 的努力，您認為事情可能會被擱置嗎？或者選舉後有什麼更新和想法嗎？

Yes. It's hard to know for sure, Bose. But I think most people think with the Republican administration, it will be maybe a less (inaudible) regulatory environment overall. And I think that will be helpful to businesses. And so there may be less impetus to push behind things like this waiver pilot, which got awfully quiet as we went through the year anyway, probably in anticipation of the election. But we're not taking anything for granted. We continue to work very hard with all stakeholders on the value of Title insurance and why we think things like waiver pilots are bad ideas, but it's probably a little bit better environment overall on that kind of a front with this new administration.

是的。很難確定，Bose。但我認為大多數人認為，在共和黨政府的領導下，整體監管環境可能會更少（聽不清楚）。我認為這對企業會有幫助。因此，推動像豁免試點這樣的事情的動力可能會減弱，無論如何，在我們度過這一年的過程中，它變得非常安靜，可能是因為對選舉的預期。但我們並不認為任何事情都是理所當然的。我們繼續與所有利益相關者就產權保險的價值以及為什麼我們認為豁免試點之類的事情是壞主意而努力工作，但新政府在這方面的整體環境可能會更好一些。

Okay, great. Thanks.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, -- that was the -- this will conclude our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the conference back over to CEO, Mike Nolan, for closing remarks.

女士們、先生們，我們的問答環節就到此結束。現在我將把會議轉回執行長 Mike Nolan 致閉幕詞。

Thank you. We are very pleased with our overall performance. The Title segment is outperforming in the current market, poised for a rebound in transactional levels, and we are continuing to build and expand the business for the long term. Likewise, F&G has many opportunities ahead to drive asset growth, deliver margin expansion and generate accretive returns. As you can see, both businesses are executing well in the current market and position for longer-term growth.

謝謝。我們對我們的整體表現非常滿意。產權細分市場在當前市場中表現出色，交易水準有望反彈，我們將繼續長期建立和擴展該業務。同樣，F&G 未來還有許多機會來推動資產成長、實現利潤率擴張並產生增值回報。正如您所看到的，兩家公司在當前市場上都表現良好，並且處於長期成長的地位。

Thank you for the time this morning. We appreciate your interest in FNF and look forward to updating you on our fourth quarter earnings call.

謝謝你今天早上的時間。我們感謝您對 FNF 的興趣，並期待在我們的第四季財報電話會議上向您通報最新情況。

Thank you for attending today's presentation and the conference call has concluded. You may now disconnect. Thank you.

感謝您參加今天的演示，電話會議已經結束。您現在可以斷開連線。謝謝。