Fidelity National Financial Inc (FNF) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Fidelity National Financial fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings call.

大家好，歡迎參加富達國家金融 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to your host, Lisa Foxworthy-Parker, Senior Vice President of Investor and External Relations.

現在我很高興將電話轉給主持人、投資者和對外關係高級副總裁麗莎·福克斯沃西·帕克 (Lisa Foxworthy-Parker)。

Please go ahead, Lisa.

請繼續，麗莎。

Thanks, operator, and welcome again everyone to our call.

謝謝接線員，再次歡迎大家接聽我們的電話。

I'm joined today by Mike Nolan, CEO; and Tony Park, CFO.

今天與我一起參加的是執行長 Mike Nolan；以及財務長 Tony Park。

We look forward to addressing your questions following our prepared remarks.

我們期待在發表準備好的演講後解答您的問題。

F&G's management team, Chris Blunt, CEO; and Wendy Young, CFO, will also be available for Q&A.

F&G 的管理團隊，執行長 Chris Blunt；財務長 Wendy Young 也將參加問答環節。

Today's earnings call may include forward-looking statements and projections under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act, which do not guarantee future events or performance.

今天的收益電話會議可能包括《私人證券訴訟改革法案》下的前瞻性陳述和預測，這些陳述和預測不保證未來事件或表現。

We do not undertake any duty to revise or update such statements to reflect new information, subsequent events, or changes in strategy.

我們不承擔修改或更新此類聲明以反映新資訊、後續事件或策略變更的任何義務。

Please refer to our most recent quarterly and annual reports and other SEC filings for details on important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied.

有關可能導致實際結果與明示或暗示的結果存在重大差異的重要因素的詳細信息，請參閱我們最近的季度和年度報告以及其他 SEC 文件。

This morning's discussion also includes non-GAAP measures which management believes are relevant in assessing the financial performance of the business.

今天早上的討論還包括管理層認為與評估企業財務績效相關的非公認會計準則指標。

Non-GAAP measures have been reconciled to GAAP where required and in accordance with SEC rules within our earnings materials available on the company's investor website.

我們在公司投資者網站上提供的收益資料中已將非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 指標與公認會計準則 (GAAP) 進行了協調，並符合美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 的規定。

Please note that today's call is being recorded and will be available for webcast replay.

請注意，今天的通話正在錄音，可供網路直播重播。

And with that, I'll hand the call over to Mike Nolan.

說完這些，我將把電話交給麥克諾蘭。

Thank you, Lisa, and good morning.

謝謝你，麗莎，早安。

The fourth-quarter results rounded out an exceptionally strong year for our Title and F&G businesses, both in terms of results and execution.

無論從業績或執行角度而言，第四季的業績都為我們的產權和 F&G 業務帶來了異常強勁的一年。

Starting with the Title segment, we delivered adjusted pre-tax title earnings of $343 million and adjusted pre-tax title margin of 16.6% for the fourth quarter.

從產權部門開始，我們第四季的調整後稅前產權收益為 3.43 億美元，調整後稅前產權利潤率為 16.6%。

And adjusted pre-tax title earnings of $1.2 billion and adjusted pre-tax title margin of 15.1% for the full-year 2024, while successfully navigating a low transaction environment.

並在成功應對低交易環境的同時，實現 2024 年全年調整後稅前產權收益 12 億美元、調整後稅前產權利潤率 15.1%。

These are outstanding results and validation of the operational efficiencies that we have achieved over the last decade, as well as the exceptional ability of our team who I believe is the best in the industry.

這些都是出色的成績，證明了我們過去十年來所取得的營運效率，以及我們團隊的卓越能力，我相信我們是業界最優秀的團隊。

I would like to say thank you to all of our 23,000 employees for doing what they do best, and that's delivering value to our clients.

我要向我們所有的 23,000 名員工表示感謝，感謝他們做著自己最擅長的事情，為我們的客戶創造了價值。

I'm continually impressed with this season team's performance and ability to deliver industry leading results year in and year out.

我對球隊本賽季的表現以及年復一年取得行業領先成績的能力印象深刻。

I would also like to extend our heartfelt thoughts and sympathy to all of those impacted by the recent wildfires across the greater Los Angeles area.

我也想向最近大洛杉磯地區野火中受到影響的所有人表達我們深切的慰問和同情。

We are grateful to our employees and the brave first responders for their unwavering dedication and resilience demonstrated throughout this natural disaster.

我們感謝我們的員工和勇敢的急救人員在這場自然災害中表現出的堅定奉獻精神和堅韌不拔的精神。

Now turning to our results.

現在來談談我們的結果。

On the purchase front, daily purchase opened orders in the fourth quarter were up 6% over the fourth quarter of 2023, and down 16% from the sequential third quarter.

在購買方面，第四季每日購買未結訂單比 2023 年第四季成長了 6%，比第三季下降了 16%。

This fourth quarter seasonality was modestly better than the typical 20% sequential decline that we have seen in recent years.

今年第四季的季節性表現略好於近年來我們所見的典型的 20% 連續下降趨勢。

On the refinance front, volumes are still a fraction of the levels seen in early 2021, when mortgage rates hit historic lows.

在再融資方面，交易量仍只是 2021 年初抵押貸款利率創下歷史低點時的一小部分。

That said, borrowers have been responsive as 30-year mortgage rates fluctuated during the course of the year.

儘管如此，隨著 30 年期抵押貸款利率在一年內出現波動，借款人對此反應積極。

This generated average refinance orders opened of 1,200 per day in 2024 as compared to 1,000 per day in 2023.

這使得 2024 年每天平均開立 1,200 份再融資訂單，而 2023 年每天平均開立 1,000 份。

We saw refinance orders opened of 1,300 per day in the fourth quarter and 1,100 per day in the month of January, reflecting how refinance volumes can change with modest movement in mortgage rates.

我們看到第四季每天的再融資訂單量為 1,300 份，一月份每天的再融資訂單量為 1,100 份，這反映了再融資量如何隨著抵押貸款利率的適度變動而變化。

Commercial volumes ended the year strong, with direct commercial revenue at near record levels for the fourth quarter and month of December.

商業交易量以強勁勢頭結束了這一年度，第四季度和 12 月份的直接商業收入接近歷史最高水平。

Overall, we generated direct commercial revenue of $1.2 billion for the full year, which was our third best year on record.

總體而言，我們全年的直接商業收入為 12 億美元，這是我們有史以來的第三好年份。

Notably, opened orders in the fourth quarter held up better than the prior year quarter, which should provide good momentum going into the first quarter.

值得注意的是，第四季的未結訂單表現優於去年同期，將為第一季提供良好的動能。

Looking ahead to 2025, we expect continued strength in the industrial, multi-family, and energy sectors, among others, and see the potential for higher commercial volumes as the office sector continues to recover.

展望 2025 年，我們預計工業、多戶型住宅和能源等產業將持續保持強勁成長，隨著辦公大樓產業的持續復甦，商業交易量也具有增加的潛力。

Looking at fourth quarter volumes more closely, daily purchase orders opened were up 6% over the fourth quarter of 2023, flat for the month of January versus the prior year, and up 26% for the month of January versus December.

更仔細觀察第四季的交易量，2023 年第四季的每日採購訂單成長了 6%，1 月與去年同期持平，1 月較上季成長了 26%。

Our refinance orders open per day were up 46% over the fourth quarter of 2023, up 16% for the month of January versus the prior year, and up 3% for the month of January versus December.

我們每日未結的再融資訂單比 2023 年第四季增加了 46%，1 月比去年同期增加了 16%，1 月比 12 月增加了 3%。

Our total commercial orders opened were 754 per day, up 7% over the fourth quarter of 2023, up 3% for the month of January versus the prior year, and up 10% for the month of January versus December.

我們每天開立的商業訂單總數為 754 個，比 2023 年第四季成長 7%，1 月比上年成長 3%，1 月比 12 月成長 10%。

On the whole, total orders opened averaged 4,700 per day in the fourth quarter, with October at 5,200, November at 4,700, and December at 4,200.

整體來看，第四季日均開單量為4700單，其中10月份日均開單量為5200單，11月份日均開單量為4700單，12月份日均開單量為4200單。

For the month of January, total orders opened were 5,100 per day, up 21% versus December.

一月份，每日平均訂單總量為 5,100 份，較十二月增加 21%。

Overall, our outstanding performance in the quarter is a result of the pioneering work and investment that we have made over the past decade.

總體而言，我們本季的出色表現是我們過去十年的開創性工作和投資的結果。

We have become more efficient across our operational footprint through our SoftPro integrated operating platform and enhanced our customer experience through proven tools such as our InHere digital transaction platform.

透過我們的 SoftPro 整合操作平台，我們的營運效率得到了提高，並透過我們的 InHere 數位交易平台等成熟工具增強了我們的客戶體驗。

Our transformation can be seen in our margins, which have expanded 140 basis points over 2023.

我們的轉型從利潤率可見一斑，2023 年利潤率擴大了 140 個基點。

During 2023 and 2024, our margins have significantly outperformed prior cycle troughs.

在 2023 年和 2024 年期間，我們的利潤率明顯超過了先前的週期低谷。

Additionally, we have generated a steady level of free cash flow to invest in our business through attractive acquisitions and continued investments in technology while increasing our dividend.

此外，我們透過有吸引力的收購和持續的技術投資產生了穩定的自由現金流來投資我們的業務，同時增加了股息。

As we enter 2025, we expect to see normal seasonality, although mortgage rates have persisted around 7% and could remain elevated.

進入 2025 年，我們預計將看到正常的季節性，儘管抵押貸款利率仍維持在 7% 左右並可能繼續處於高位。

As always, we'll manage our business to the trend in open orders and adjust our headcount and footprint accordingly.

像往常一樣，我們將根據未結訂單的趨勢管理我們的業務，並相應地調整我們的員工人數和足跡。

Over the next few years, we would anticipate a march back to a more normalized environment.

在接下來的幾年裡，我們預計將恢復到一個更正常化的環境。

To help put this in perspective, the National Association of REALTORS, or NAR, recently reported that home sales in 2024 were at the lowest level since 1995 due to high mortgage rates and a housing shortage.

為了幫助人們正確看待這個問題，全美房地產經紀人協會 (NAR) 最近報告稱，由於高抵押貸款利率和住房短缺，2024 年的房屋銷售量處於 1995 年以來的最低水平。

And I noted that there are 70 million more people in the US population over the last three decades.

我注意到，過去 30 年來，美國人口增加了 7,000 萬人。

This supports our view of the pent-up demand and basic need for housing that is expected to unleash growth in existing home sales over time.

這支持了我們的觀點，即被壓抑的住房需求和基本需求預計將隨著時間的推移釋放現有住房銷售的成長。

That is why we remain bullish on the long-term prospects for the Title insurance business and continue to invest in our company.

這就是為什麼我們仍然看好產權保險業務的長期前景並繼續對我們公司進行投資。

I am proud of all that we have done to achieve our industry leading performance through reducing costs and improving the efficiency of our title search and exam process while preserving the coverage and value of our insurance product.

我為我們所做的一切感到自豪，透過降低成本和提高產權搜尋和審查流程的效率，同時保持我們保險產品的覆蓋範圍和價值，實現了行業領先的業績。

And we are excited about continued opportunities.

我們對持續的機會感到非常興奮。

We continue to improve the efficiency of our operations while exploring further innovation with generative AI tools and maintaining our focus on enhancing the title and settlement processes.

我們持續提高營運效率，同時探索利用生成式 AI 工具進行進一步創新，並持續專注於增強產權和結算流程。

We are continually striving to improve our margins like what we have achieved over the past decade.

我們正不斷努力提高利潤率，就像過去十年所取得的成就一樣。

Turning now to our F&G business, F&G has profitably grown assets under management before flow reinsurance to a record $65.3 billion at December 31.

現在談談我們的 F&G 業務，截至 12 月 31 日，F&G 的流量再保險前管理資產已實現盈利增長，達到創紀錄的 653 億美元。

F&G is well positioned and continues to make progress towards investor day targets of asset growth, margin expansion, and enhanced earnings from flow reinsurance and owned distribution, which continues to be accretive to FNF's growth profile and earnings.

F&G 處於有利地位，並繼續朝著投資者的目標邁進，即資產成長、利潤率擴大以及流量再保險和自有分銷帶來的收益增加，這將繼續增進 FNF 的成長狀況和收益。

In fact, F&G contributed 38% of FNF's consolidated adjusted net earnings for the full-year 2024.

事實上，F&G 為 FNF 2024 年全年合併調整後淨收益貢獻了 38%。

F&G is a strong growth engine, which we expect to continue as they execute against their medium-term financial goals.

F＆G 是一個強勁的成長引擎，我們預計，隨著他們實現中期財務目標，這一勢頭將繼續下去。

Additionally, F&G paid $108 million of cash dividends to FNF in 2024.

此外，F&G 在 2024 年向 FNF 支付了 1.08 億美元的現金股利。

With that, let me now turn the call over to Tony to review FNF's fourth-quarter and full-year financial performance and provide additional highlights.

現在，我將把電話轉給托尼，讓他回顧一下 FNF 的第四季度和全年財務業績，並提供更多亮點。

Thank you, Mike.

謝謝你，麥克。

Starting with our consolidated results, we generated $3.6 billion in total revenue in the fourth quarter.

從我們的綜合業績開始，我們在第四季度創造了 36 億美元的總收入。

Excluding net recognized gains and losses, our total revenue was $4 billion as compared with $3.2 billion in the fourth quarter of 2023.

不包括已確認的淨收益和損失，我們的總收入為 40 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 32 億美元。

We reported fourth quarter net earnings of $450 million including net recognized losses of $373 million versus a net loss of $69 million including $203 million of net recognized gains in the fourth quarter of 2023.

我們報告第四季淨利潤為 4.5 億美元，其中包括 3.73 億美元的淨確認虧損，而 2023 年第四季淨虧損為 6,900 萬美元，其中包括 2.03 億美元的淨確認收益。

The net recognized gains and losses in each period are primarily due to mark to market accounting treatment of equity and preferred stock securities, whether the securities were disposed of in the quarter or continued to be held in our investment portfolio.

每個期間確認的淨收益和損失主要歸因於股票和優先股證券的按市價會計處理，無論這些證券是在本季度處置還是繼續持有在我們的投資組合中。

Adjusted net earnings were $366 million or $1.34 per diluted share compared with $204 million or $0.75 per share for the fourth quarter of 2023.

調整後淨利為 3.66 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.34 美元，而 2023 年第四季為 2.04 億美元，即每股 0.75 美元。

The Title segment contributed $263 million.

標題部分貢獻了 2.63 億美元。

The F&G segment contributed $123 million, and the Corporate segment contributed $8 million before eliminating $28 million of dividend income from F&G in the consolidated financial statements.

F&G 部門貢獻了 1.23 億美元，企業部門貢獻了 800 萬美元，然後在合併財務報表中消除了來自 F&G 的 2800 萬美元的股息收入。

For the full-year 2024, we saw strong performance for the Title segment despite a difficult environment, as well as record growth for the F&G segment which together generated solid profitability.

就 2024 年全年而言，儘管環境艱難，但產權業務部門仍表現強勁，食品和消費品部門也實現了創紀錄的增長，共同產生了穩健的盈利能力。

Total revenue excluding gains and losses was $13.6 billion in the full-year 2024 and reflects a 14% increase over the full-year 2023.

2024 年全年扣除收益和損失的總收入為 136 億美元，比 2023 年全年增長 14%。

We delivered $1.3 billion in adjusted net earnings, an increase of 31% over $962 million in full-year 2023.

我們實現調整後淨利 13 億美元，較 2023 年全年的 9.62 億美元成長 31%。

The Title segment contributed $877 million.

標題部分貢獻了 8.77 億美元。

The F&G segment contributed $475 million.

F&G 部門貢獻了 4.75 億美元。

And the Corporate segment contributed $21 million before eliminating $108 million of dividend income from F&G in the consolidated financial statements.

在合併財務報表中剔除F&G公司1.08億美元的股利收入之前，企業部門貢獻了2,100萬美元。

Turning to fourth-quarter financial highlights specific to the Title segment.

談談標題部分的第四季財務亮點。

Our Title segment generated $2.1 billion in total revenue in the fourth quarter, excluding net recognized losses of $57 million compared with $1.7 billion in the fourth quarter of 2023.

我們的產權部門在第四季創造了 21 億美元的總收入，不包括 5,700 萬美元的淨確認虧損，而 2023 年第四季為 17 億美元。

Direct premiums increased 28% over the prior year.

直接保費比上年增加28%。

Agency premiums increased 27%.

代理保費上漲27%。

In escrow, title-related, and other fees increased 15%.

託管、產權相關和其他費用增加了 15%。

Personnel costs increased 11% and other operating expenses increased 8%.

人事成本增加了11%，其他營運費用增加了8%。

All in, the Title business generated adjusted pre-tax title earnings of $343 million compared with $198 million for the fourth quarter of 2023.

整體而言，產權業務的調整後稅前收益為 3.43 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 1.98 億美元。

And a 16.6% adjusted pre-tax title margin for the quarter versus 11.8% in the prior year quarter.

本季調整後的稅前利潤率為 16.6%，去年同期為 11.8%。

For the full year, the Title business generated adjusted pre-tax title earnings of $1.2 billion compared with $964 million for the full year 2023 and a 15.1% adjusted pre-tax title margin versus 13.7% in the full year 2023.

全年而言，產權業務的調整後稅前產權收益為 12 億美元，而 2023 年全年為 9.64 億美元，調整後稅前產權利潤率為 15.1%，而 2023 年全年為 13.7%。

Our Title and Corporate investment portfolio totaled $4.7 billion at December 301.

截至 12 月 301 日，我們的產權和公司投資組合總額為 47 億美元。

Interest and investment income in the Title and Corporate segments was $109 million an increase of $6 million over the prior year quarter and excluding income from F&G dividends to the holding company.

產權和公司部門的利息和投資收入為 1.09 億美元，比去年同期增加 600 萬美元，不包括 F&G 向控股公司派發的股息收入。

Looking ahead, we expect to generate quarterly interest and investment income of $95 million to $100 million in each quarter during 2025, assuming no further Fed funds rate cuts during the year.

展望未來，假設聯邦基金利率在年內不再進一步下調，我們預計 2025 年每季的季度利息和投資收入將達到 9,500 萬至 1 億美元。

In addition, we expect over $100 million of annual dividend income from F&G to the Corporate segment.

此外，我們預計F&G每年將為企業部門帶來超過1億美元的股息收入。

This cash return reflects approximately 85% of F&G's common dividend given our majority ownership stake and 100% of F&G's preferred dividend on the mandatory convertible preferred stock issued to FNF in January 2024.

該現金回報反映了 F&G 鑑於我們的多數股權而支付的普通股股息的約 85% 以及 F&G 於 2024 年 1 月向 FNF 發行的強制性可轉換優先股的 100% 優先股息。

Our title claims paid of $75 million were $11 million higher than our provision of $64 million for the fourth quarter.

我們支付的產權索賠金額為 7,500 萬美元，比第四季的 6,400 萬美元撥備高出 1,100 萬美元。

The carried reserve for title claim losses is approximately $60 million or 3.7% above the actuary's central estimate.

所有權索賠損失的準備金約為 6,000 萬美元，比精算師的中心估計高出 3.7%。

We continue to provide for title claims at 4.5% of total title premiums.

我們將繼續以總產權保險費 4.5% 的比率提供產權索賠服務。

Next, turning to financial highlights specific to the F&G segment.

接下來，我們來談談食品和飲料部門的具體財務亮點。

Since F&G hosted its earnings call earlier this morning and provided a thorough update, I will recap a few key highlights.

由於 F&G 今早召開了財報電話會議並提供了詳細的最新消息，我將回顧幾個關鍵亮點。

F&G reported gross sales of $15.3 billion for the full-year 2024, a 16% increase over the full-year 2023, driven by record retail and robust institutional market sales.

F&G 公佈 2024 年全年總銷售額為 153 億美元，較 2023 年全年增長 16%，這得益於創紀錄的零售額和強勁的機構市場銷售。

This included $3.5 billion of gross sales in the fourth quarter.

其中包括第四季 35 億美元的總銷售額。

F&G's net sales were $10.6 billion for the full-year 2024, a 15% increase over the full-year 2023.

F&G 2024 年全年淨銷售額為 106 億美元，較 2023 年全年成長 15%。

This included $2.5 billion of net sales in the fourth quarter.

其中包括第四季 25 億美元的淨銷售額。

F&G has profitably grown its AUM before flow reinsurance to a record $65.3 billion.

F&G 的流量再保險前的 AUM 已獲利成長至創紀錄的 653 億美元。

This includes retained assets under management of $53.8 billion at year end.

其中包括年末 538 億美元的保留管理資產。

Adjusted net earnings for the F&G segment were $123 million in the fourth quarter.

第四季食品和食品飲料部門調整後淨利為 1.23 億美元。

This includes alternative investment returns below our long-term expectations by $27 million or $0.10 per share, and significant income items of $18 million or $0.07 per share.

其中包括低於我們長期預期的另類投資回報 2,700 萬美元或每股 0.10 美元，以及 1,800 萬美元或每股 0.07 美元的重大收入項目。

For the full-year 2024 adjusted net earnings for the F&G segment were $475 million.

2024 年全年 F&G 部門調整後淨利為 4.75 億美元。

This includes alternative investment returns below our long-term expectations by $123 million or $0.45 per share and significant income items of $30 million or $0.11 per share.

其中包括低於我們長期預期的另類投資回報 1.23 億美元或每股 0.45 美元，以及 3,000 萬美元或每股 0.11 美元的重大收入項目。

To bring it all together for the fourth quarter, F&F's consolidated adjusted net earnings, excluding significant items in the F&G segment, were $374 million or $1.37 per diluted share.

綜合考慮第四季度的所有數據，F&F 的綜合調整後淨利潤（不包括 F&G 部門的重要項目）為 3.74 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.37 美元。

For the full year, FNF's consolidated adjusted net earnings, excluding significant items in the F&G segment were $1.4 billion or $4.97 per diluted share.

全年而言，FNF 的綜合調整後淨利潤（不包括食品和食品飲料部門的重要項目）為 14 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 4.97 美元。

F&G continues to provide stability to our earnings regardless of whether rates are rising or falling and provides an important complement to our Title business.

無論利率上升或下降，F&G 都能持續為我們的收益提供穩定性，並為我們的產權業務提供重要補充。

The F&G segment contributed 38% of FNF's adjusted net earnings for the full-year 2024, up from 30% for the full-year 2023 and 23% in full-year 2022.

食品和飲料部門貢獻了 FNF 2024 年全年調整後淨收益的 38%，高於 2023 年全年的 30% 和 2022 年全年的 23%。

From a capital and liquidity perspective, we are maintaining a strong balance sheet and ensuring a balanced capital allocation strategy.

從資本和流動性的角度來看，我們保持強勁的資產負債表並確保均衡的資本配置策略。

Our consolidated debt outstanding was $4.3 billion at December 31.

截至 12 月 31 日，我們的合併未償還債務為 43 億美元。

In January of 2025, F&G issued $375 million of junior subordinated notes with net proceeds to be used for general corporate purposes, including the repayment of debt.

2025 年 1 月，F&G 發行了 3.75 億美元的次級債券，淨收益將用於一般公司用途，包括償還債務。

In early February of 2025, F&G fully redeemed its $300 million of outstanding senior notes due May 2025 at a redemption price of par plus accrued and unpaid interest up to the redemption date.

2025 年 2 月初，F&G 以票面價格加上截至贖回日的應計未付利息，全額贖回了其 2025 年 5 月到期的 3 億美元未償還高級票據。

Our consolidated debt to capitalization ratio excluding AOCI remains in line with our long-term target range of 20% to 30%, and we expect that our balance sheet will naturally delever as shareholders' equity grows.

我們的綜合債務資本化比率（不包括 AOCI）與我們 20% 至 30% 的長期目標範圍一致，我們預計，隨著股東權益的增長，我們的資產負債表將自然去槓桿化。

Turning to share purchases.

轉向共享購買。

We continue to look for signs that we are through the trough in the market with stable and sustained cash generation as indicators to resume share buybacks.

我們繼續尋找跡象表明我們已經走出市場低谷，並以穩定和持續的現金產生作為恢復股票回購的指標。

We view repurchases as opportunistic and actively evaluate against where we are with cash, M&A opportunity, and the market backdrop.

我們將回購視為機遇，並根據我們的現金、併購機會和市場背景積極評估。

From a capital allocation perspective, we entered 2024 with $885 million in cash and short-term liquid investments at the holding company.

從資本配置的角度來看，到 2024 年，我們持有控股公司 8.85 億美元的現金和短期流動投資。

During the year, the business generated cash to fund our $530 million annual common dividend, $75 million of holding company interest expense, $60 million of strategic title acquisition spend, and $250 million invested in the F&G preferred stock, all while keeping pace with wage inflation and funding the continued higher spend in risk and technology required in today's landscape.

本財年，該業務產生的現金為我們的 5.3 億美元年度普通股股息、7,500 萬美元的控股公司利息支出、6,000 萬美元的戰略所有權收購支出以及 2.5 億美元的 F&G 優先股投資提供資金，同時跟上工資通脹的步伐並為當今形勢下所需的持續更高的風險和技術支出提供資金。

We ended 2024 with $786 million in cash and short-term liquid investments at the holding company, which is about 90% of the amount held at year-end 2023.

截至 2024 年，控股公司擁有 7.86 億美元現金和短期流動投資，約佔 2023 年底持有金額的 90%。

Our ability to sustain this level of cash while returning capital to shareholders and investing in the business in such a low transaction environment, is certainly noteworthy and we feel differentiates us from cyclical businesses.

在如此低交易量的環境下，我們仍能維持這樣的現金水平，同時向股東返還資本並進行業務投資，這無疑是值得注意的，並且我們認為這使我們有別於週期性業務。

This concludes our prepared remarks and let me now turn the call back to our operator for questions.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束，現在我將把電話轉回給接線員以回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Mark DeVries, Deutsche Bank.

（操作員指示）德意志銀行的馬克‧德弗里斯 (Mark DeVries)。

I was surprised to learn that your open orders in the Title business are -- the growth is accelerating into January given kind of the backup and rates we saw in the fourth quarter.

我很驚訝地得知，你們的產權業務的未結訂單——考慮到我們在第四季度看到的支持和利率，增長在 1 月份正在加速。

Could you give us a little more color on kind of what you're seeing there?

您能否向我們詳細介紹一下您在那裡看到的情況？

Are you taking share or what's kind of driving the strength in January?

您是否佔據了市場份額，或者是什麼推動了 1 月份的強勁成長？

Yeah, Mark, it's Mike.

是的，馬克，我是麥克。

It's hard to know in a monthly basis whether one's taking share or not.

很難按月得知某人是否獲得了份額。

But we're certainly encouraged with purchase up 6% in the fourth quarter over last year.

但我們確實對第四季的購買量比去年同期成長了 6% 感到鼓舞。

I think purchase was relatively flat in January, even with rates up.

我認為，即使利率上升，一月份的購買量仍然相對穩定。

And then the refine numbers were up 16% in January.

1 月煉油量上漲了 16%。

That's very encouraging, and maybe again, as we said in the opening comments, just points to this sort of pent-up demand that's existing even with these persistently higher rates.

這非常令人鼓舞，或許正如我們在開場白中所說的那樣，這只是表明即使利率持續走高，這種被壓抑的需求仍然存在。

But what -- relative to share, probably going to see how that plays out a little further to see how those numbers come out.

但是，相對於份額，可能還要進一步觀察其如何發揮作用，才能知道這些數字是如何得出的。

Okay, got it.

好的，明白了。

And then my second question is for Chris.

我的第二個問題是問克里斯的。

On your earnings call for [F&G] earlier today, when discussing your PRC business, I believe you alluded to a benefit from FNF's majority ownership.

在您今天早些時候召開的 [F&G] 收益電話會議上，在討論您的中國業務時，我相信您提到了 FNF 的多數股權所帶來的好處。

My question for you is whether there are any material benefits or synergies you realize.

我的問題是，您是否意識到了任何物質利益或協同效應。

From that ownership that are kind of critical, to executing on your growth plans or what do you believe FG would be well positioned to continue to execute as a standalone entity.

從至關重要的所有權，到執行成長計劃，或您認為 FG 作為一個獨立實體將有能力繼續執行哪些計劃。

Yeah, I mean, we've run the business as a standalone business really from the get-go, so there's clearly been benefits.

是的，我的意思是，我們從一開始就將業務作為獨立業務來運營，因此顯然有好處。

Hard capital support has probably been the biggest benefit that we've received.

硬資本支持可能是我們獲得的最大益處。

Cybersecurity were much further along than we would have been without FNF's ownership, but now we haven't really integrated the businesses in any way.

如果沒有 FNF 的所有權，我們在網路安全方面的進展會比現在要大得多，但現在我們還沒有以任何方式真正整合這些業務。

And I would add, Mark, it's Mike again, just the ratings upgrade was critical to channel expansion.

我想補充一點，馬克，又是麥克，收視率的提升對於頻道擴展至關重要。

And when you look at where the business was in 2020 with IMO maybe 80%-plus of the sales, and now that's in the mid-40s, and bank and broker dealer went from low-double digits to mid-40s or low-40s and sales tripled.

當您回顧 2020 年的業務情況時，在我看來，銷售額可能佔 80% 以上，而現在約為 45% 左右，而銀行和經紀交易商的銷售額則從兩位數低位增長到 45% 左右或 45% 左右，銷售額增長了兩倍。

I mean, that's all tied to the fact that a lot of that had to do with the ratings upgrade

我的意思是，這一切都與評級升級有很大關係

[100%].

[100%]。

And the timing of those upgrades.

以及這些升級的時間。

I would agree.

我同意。

And that ratings upgrade probably at this point where F&G stands, it would probably even if it were an independent company, probably maintain those same ratings.

而評級可能會在 F&G 目前所處的階段升級，即使它是一家獨立公司，也可能會維持相同的評級。

I mean, I guess we don't know the answer to that, but it's likely that that would be the case.

我的意思是，我猜我們不知道答案，但情況很可能是如此。

Okay, and I think Chris, I think you indicated earlier that a lot of the growth you're seeing now is more due to expanding kind of your penetration of existing channels rather than channel expansion.

好的，克里斯，我想你之前就指出過，你現在看到的增長更多的是由於擴大了現有渠道的滲透率，而不是渠道擴張。

Is that an accurate kind of representation of the point you're trying to make earlier?

這是否準確地表達了您之前想要表達的觀點？

Yeah, it is.

是的。

I mean we're -- and we tend to think of these channels and assume that we've got 80% of the advisors in any channels selling F&Gs so there's still just a lot of green field for us, particularly in the broker dealer channel where our penetration is the newest and probably the thinnest, but yeah, we see opportunities to gain in in every channel.

我的意思是，我們傾向於考慮這些管道，並假設我們在任何銷售 F&G 的管道中都有 80% 的顧問，所以對我們來說仍然有很多綠地，特別是在經紀交易商管道，我們的滲透率是最新的，也可能是最薄弱的，但是，是的，我們在每個管道都看到了獲利的機會。

Okay, got it, thank you.

好的，知道了，謝謝。

John Campbell, Stephens.

約翰·坎貝爾，史蒂芬斯。

Congrats on a great quarter.

恭喜您度過了一個美好的季度。

So really impressive results on the Title business.

產權業務的成果確實令人印象深刻。

I'm thinking you guys are probably expecting this question but -- and I know it's probably really tough to piece this out.

我想你們可能已經預料到這個問題了，但是──我知道要解決這個問題可能真的很難。

But Tony, what's your best guess on the impact of the data breach in the year ago period?

但是托尼，你對去年同期資料外洩的影響的最佳猜測是什麼？

Any sense for kind of the degree of a year-over-year title margin expansion or a like for like or normalized basis?

對於同比標題利潤率擴大的程度，或同類或標準化基礎，有什麼看法？

Yeah, it wasn't major.

是的，沒有什麼大事。

I think we talked about it a year ago.

我想我們一年前就談過這個問題。

My recollection is it might have been 50 basis points on margin that we felt like we were impacted in Q4 of '23, so call it, [11.8] would have been [12.3] but that

我記得我們覺得在 23 年第四季利潤率受到了 50 個基點的影響，所以說，[11.8] 應該是 [12.3]，但那

--

--

That sounds about right.

聽起來是對的。

I didn't go back and look at that number, but I know at the time we felt it was pretty negligible, John.

我沒有回頭去看那個數字，但我知道當時我們覺得它相當微不足道，約翰。

We really saw what we -- remember, we really only had two days when we really weren't closing transactions.

我們確實看到了——記住，我們實際上只有兩天沒有完成交易。

And we felt like we picked a lot of that back up in December of last year.

我們感覺去年 12 月我們就恢復了很多。

I probably had some revenue pushed to the first quarter maybe, but really negligible.

我可能會將部分收入推遲到第一季度，但真的微不足道。

I think, when you look at the fourth quarter, John, it was just a great quarter, and we had strong revenue and marginal performance across all of our business lines: Direct, Agency, Commercial.

約翰，我認為當你回顧第四季度時，那是一個偉大的季度，我們在所有業務線上都實現了強勁的收入和邊際表現：直銷、代理、商業。

Also had a great quarter from our Sub-servicing business.

我們的次級服務業務也取得了本季的優異成績。

They actually had a record year for pre-tax in 2024 as well.

事實上，2024 年他們的稅前利潤也創下了歷史新高。

So it was just great to see the business kind of humming on all cylinders.

看到業務全速發展真是令人欣喜。

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，絕對是如此。

And then Chris, during this morning's F&G earnings call, you talked to the kind of strategic decision to allocate capital to your higher returning products.

然後克里斯，在今天早上的 F＆G 財報電話會議上，您談到了將資本分配給回報更高的產品的戰略決策。

You guys have obviously put up really impressive gross sales growth, but that comment seemed to be kind of implying or hinting that you could do more with more capital.

你們顯然已經實現了非常令人印象深刻的總銷售額成長，但那條評論似乎暗示或暗示你們可以用更多的資本做更多的事情。

So I'm hoping you could maybe shed some light on the constraints you guys have now?

所以我希望你能解釋一下你們現在面臨的限制嗎？

And then maybe for the FNF team is there any appetite to infuse F&G with more capital or are you viewing as self-sustaining now?

那麼對於 FNF 團隊來說，是否有興趣向 F＆G 注入更多資本，或者您認為現在他們可以自給自足？

Yeah, so I mean, look, we're a capital intensive business, so we could always do more if we had additional equity capital, but we've got a lot of other sources, primarily the use of reinsurance, and our block is pretty large now and throws up a lot of capital every year.

是的，所以我的意思是，你看，我們是一個資本密集型的​​企業，所以如果我們有額外的股本，我們總是可以做更多的事情，但是我們還有很多其他來源，主要是使用再保險，而且我們的區塊現在相當大，每年都會投入大量的資本。

So, yeah, it was more common of just how we think about that relative allocation of capital, but sure.

所以，是的，更常見的是我們如何考慮資本的相對分配，但可以肯定。

Yeah, we could productively make use of more capital and that's always the case in a business like ours.

是的，我們可以有效地利用更多的資本，對於我們這樣的企業來說，情況總是如此。

And John, this is Tony.

約翰，這是東尼。

Just on the FNF side of things.

僅就 FNF 方面而言。

I guess I -- we did make the $250 million investment back in January of 2024, [the prefer], and I guess there's no knowing for sure whether FNF would be a capital contributor in the future to F&G.

我想我們確實在 2024 年 1 月進行了 2.5 億美元的投資，[優先股]，我想無法確定 FNF 未來是否會成為 F&G 的資本貢獻者。

It might depend on The opportunities in front of us.

這可能取決於我們面前的機會。

I'm proud that we were able to maintain our cash position over the course of 2024, even with that $250 million investment in F&G.

我很自豪，即使在 F&G 上投資了 2.5 億美元，我們仍然能夠在 2024 年期間保持現金狀況。

We basically maintained the $800 million HoldCo cash and frankly, a pretty challenging market on the on the Title side.

我們基本上維持了 8 億美元的 HoldCo 現金，坦白說，從產權來看，這是一個相當具有挑戰性的市場。

I will say also that the Board met yesterday and decided to resume the share buyback.

我還要說的是，董事會昨天開會並決定恢復股票回購。

So I would anticipate us being in the market on a daily basis when we're not blacked out, probably modestly.

因此，我預計當我們沒有停電時，我們每天都會適度進入市場。

I think the Board feels that given that we were able to maintain that $800 million HoldCo cash in a tough market.

我認為董事會認為，鑑於我們能夠在艱難的市場環境中維持 8 億美元的 HoldCo 現金。

And again with that F&G investment, that was solid and -- so yeah, I would say the message takeaway is we can generate strong cash flow even in a relatively tough market.

再次，對於 F＆G 的投資，這是穩固的，所以，是的，我想說的是，即使在相對艱難的市場中，我們也能夠產生強勁的現金流。

Yeah, great to hear.

是的，很高興聽到這個消息。

Thanks, guys.

謝謝大家。

Terry Ma, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的馬特里 (Terry Ma)。

Maybe just starting with Commercial.

也許只是從商業開始。

The results this quarter are pretty strong and your comments were encouraging, but you also had some really strong second-half growth this year, and it looks like it was driven a lot by national.

本季的業績非常強勁，您的評論令人鼓舞，但今年下半年的成長也非常強勁，而且看起來這在很大程度上受到了國家推動。

So how sustainable is that based on just the pipeline you're seeing and maybe just talk about how confident you are that you can continue to grow off that $1.2 billion dollar base.

那麼，僅從您所看到的管道來看，這種做法的可持續性如何？ 您能否談談，您對能夠在 12 億美元的基礎上繼續實現成長有多大信心？

Yeah, great question, Terry.

是的，特里，這個問題問得很好。

And you're right.

你說得對。

When we -- really starting in June on an open order basis, month over the prior year's month, we had very strong growth in our national orders, pretty much double-digit growth.

當我們 — — 實際上從 6 月開始以未結訂單為基礎計算時，與去年同期相比，我們的全國訂單實現了非常強勁的增長，幾乎是兩位數的增長。

Even looking at the last three quarters, I think it averaged about 12% Q2 over Q2, you get a 3 over 4.

即使回顧過去三個季度，我認為第二季度的平均成長率也比第二季度高出 12%，也就是 3 比 4。

So just sort of a really strong pipeline, I think, is getting built up on the national side.

所以我認為，在國家層面上，一種真正強大的管道正在建立。

And as we talk to our clients and our business partners, people are pretty optimistic that '25 will be another strong year for commercial.

當我們與客戶和業務夥伴交談時，人們非常樂觀地認為 2025 年將是商業發展的另一個強勁年份。

And then the wild card a little bit, which would be very additive is if the office sector begins to contribute more to the overall commercial book.

然後，如果辦公部門開始對整體商業書籍做出更多貢獻，那麼這將是一個有點不確定因素，這將是非常有利的。

And I think we're all seeing headlines that point to the fact that that could be happening.

我認為我們看到的所有新聞標題都表明這種情況可能正在發生。

One in particular, I just read recently was that someone reported that office demand in New York was getting back to pre-pandemic levels.

特別是，我最近讀到有人報道稱，紐約的辦公大樓需求正在恢復到疫情前的水平。

And as those things happen, that will start to drive ultimately transactional activity, I think, in the office sector, and again, will just be an additive element to '25 and beyond.

隨著這些事情的發生，我認為這將最終推動辦公領域的交易活動，並且再次成為25年及以後的附加元素。

Got it.

知道了。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And then maybe just to touch on FG, you spoke a little bit about the just complimentary nature of the business relative to FNF Title business and maybe just refresh us, your thoughts around just the option to spin as we approach the five-year anniversary.

然後也許只是談談 FG，您談到了一點關於業務相對於 FNF Title 業務的互補性質，也許只是讓我們重新認識一下，在我們接近五週年之際，您對旋轉選擇的想法。

Yeah.

是的。

This is Tony.

這是托尼。

I'll comment.

我會評論。

I mean at this point, the Board has been very clear that F&G has been a great contributor and complement to our Title business with 38% of our adjusted net earnings generated from the FG segment.

我的意思是，目前董事會已經非常清楚，F&G 對我們的產權業務做出了巨大貢獻和補充，我們 38% 的調整後淨收益來自 FG 部門。

And the direction from the Board is clear that grow the AUM and grow the earnings.

董事會的方向很明確，那就是增加 AUM 和增加收益。

So that's really the commentary we have.

這就是我們的評論。

To your point, the five-year anniversary of the acquisition comes up in early June.

正如您所說，此次收購的五週年紀念日將在六月初到來。

And so, following that point, we would have the ability, assuming we still own at least 80% of F&G to spend it to our shareholders tax-free.

因此，從那以後，假設我們仍然擁有 F&G 至少 80% 的股份，我們就有能力免稅將其花給我們的股東。

But again, that isn't the focus.

但再說一遍，這不是重點。

Right now, the focus is clearly just to continue to grow F&G.

目前的重點顯然是繼續發展 F&G。

Got it thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

Bose George, KBW.

博斯喬治，KBW。

I wanted to ask about the margin.

我想問一下利潤率。

Obviously, a very impressive margin in 4Q and for the full year.

顯然，第四季和全年的利潤率非常可觀。

And I know you don't like to provide guidance on the margin.

我知道你不喜歡提供邊際指導。

But just assuming market trends persist, what's a good way to think about margins in 2025, over '24, just the puts and takes in there?

但是，如果只是假設市場趨勢持續下去，那麼，如何才能最好地考慮 2025 年相對於 24 年的利潤率，以及其中的投入和收益呢？

Yeah.

是的。

Great question, Bose.

很好的問題，Bose。

And you're right, it is difficult sometimes to flush that out.

你說得對，有時候確實很難消除這種感覺。

But margins are always influenced by a number of factors.

但利潤總是受到多種因素的影響。

You've got the mix of Direct and Agency, the mix of Commercial, how the non-Title businesses that are in the Title segment performed, specifically our Loan Care Subservicing business and Home Warranty, both had, by the way, record pre-tax years in '24 were really excited to see that.

您已經了解了直接和代理的組合、商業的組合，以及產權部門中非產權業務的表現，特別是我們的貸款護理次級服務業務和房屋保修，順便說一下，這兩項業務在 24 年的稅前年度均創下了歷史新高，我們對此感到非常興奮。

But if the question is assuming that '25 has more transactional volume and other things being equal, we would expect to have a better margin in '25 to '24.

但如果問題是假設'25年的交易量更大且其他條件相同，我們預計'25年至'24年的利潤率會更高。

We would expect to outperform prior cycles with better conditions.

我們期望在更好的條件下超越前幾個週期。

But obviously, there's a range of outcomes as to what the actual volumes will be in '25, and there's a lot of forecasts out there that are modestly better conditions in '25.

但顯然，2025 年的實際產量會有很多結果，而且有許多預測顯示 2025 年的情況會略有改善。

If you look at MBA and Fannie Mae, I think they're both forecasting an uptick in refi originations, maybe 20% or more and maybe a 9% or 10% increase in purchase originations.

如果你看看 MBA 和房利美，我認為他們都預測再融資發起量將會增加，可能為 20％或更多，而購買發起量可能會增加 9％或 10％。

And -- but we just -- as you know, we manage the business to the orders, not to the forecast, but we're well positioned, really well positioned to drive strong margins with more volume, and you saw that in '21.

而且 — — 但我們只是 — — 如你所知，我們根據訂單而不是預測來管理業務，但我們處於有利地位，確實處於有利地位，可以通過更多的銷量來推動強勁的利潤率，你在 21 年就看到了這一點。

No, okay, great.

不，好的，太好了。

That's helpful, thanks.

這很有幫助，謝謝。

And then just a related question, can you just break -- give us the margin by segment?

然後只是一個相關的問題，您能否按部分給我們利潤率？

Yeah, Bose.

是的，Bose。

This is Tony.

這是托尼。

I've got a few numbers here comparing the 16.6% Q4 of '24 versus the 11.8% in '23.

我這裡有幾個數字，比較一下 24 年第四季的 16.6% 與 23 年的 11.8%。

So our direct operations were a little better than 23% versus about 19.5% in the prior year quarter.

因此，我們的直接業務佔比略高於 23%，而去年同期這一比例約為 19.5%。

Agency was about 7.5% versus about 6% in the prior year quarter.

代理比例約為 7.5%，而去年同期約為 6%。

Our national Commercial units were about 34% versus about 29% in the prior year quarter.

我們的全國商業單位佔比約為 34%，而去年同期約為 29%。

Loan Care, 23%, up against around 16% in the prior year quarter and then Home Warranty was pretty flat with the prior year quarter.

貸款護理費用為 23%，高於去年同期的 16% 左右，而房屋保固費用與去年同期基本持平。

So those are some of the units.

這些就是一些單位。

Obviously, those numbers aren't burdened by our shared services but also don't include any of our investment income.

顯然，這些數字並沒有受到我們的共享服務的影響，也不包括我們的任何投資收入。

So that kind of recaps the segments, if you will.

如果你願意的話，這可以概括這些片段。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

Thanks guys.

謝謝大家。

Mark Hughes, Truist Securities.

馬克·休斯（Mark Hughes），Truist Securities。

Yeah, thank you.

是的，謝謝。

Any impact in the Q1 from the wildfires just in terms of closing or is that the minimum?

就關閉而言，野火對第一季有任何影響嗎？

Yeah, Mark, it's Mike.

是的，馬克，我是麥克。

It's really de minimis.

這真是微不足道的事。

Obviously, the fires on a personal level are horrific, but those areas, as you might think about like Pacific Palisades, there's just not a lot of transactional volume there.

顯然，從個人角度來看，火災是可怕的，但正如你可能想到的，像太平洋帕利塞德地區這樣的地區，交易量並不大。

And so it really is de minimis, I think, for us.

所以我認為，對我們來說，這確實是微不足道的。

The NAR settlement, I think you've said you're pretty agnostic on that front.

關於 NAR 和解，我想您已經說過您對此持懷疑態度。

Have you seen any change in kind of the real estate, the broker community, the referral pattern and just the way business is flowing as a result of the settlement?

您是否看到房地產、經紀人社區、推薦模式以及業務流程因此次和解而發生任何變化？

I can't say we've seen any significant changes.

我不能說我們看到了任何重大的變化。

I think I've seen some notes that maybe commissions have modestly declined very modestly, probably going to take more time.

我想我已經看到一些記錄表明佣金可能略有下降，可能還需要更多時間。

We have seen some more interest in real estate brokers with our transaction management platform in SkySlope.

借助 SkySlope 交易管理平台，我們發現房地產經紀人的興趣增加。

They see more interested in learning more about that.

他們似乎對了解更多相關內容更感興趣。

I think from a view that it might help them better comply with all these changes.

我認為從某種角度來說這可能有助於他們更好地適應所有這些變化。

But other than that, it seems pretty business as usual.

但除此之外，一切看起來一切如常。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Geoffrey Dunn, Dowling & Partners.

傑弗瑞鄧恩，道林及合夥人。

Mike, I wanted to ask you about investment and efficiency in the business.

麥克，我想問你關於業務投資和效率的問題。

If we think about the Title segment as a front-end production and back end, we're -- really been focused over the last couple of years with your investment and efficiency gains?

如果我們將標題部分視為前端製作和後端，那麼過去幾年我們真的一直專注於您的投資和效率提升嗎？

And where is the next three years focused?

未來三年的重點是什麼？

Yeah.

是的。

Really good question, Geoff, thank you.

真是個好問題，傑夫，謝謝你。

I'd point to a couple of things.

我想指出幾件事。

In 2019 -- well, really we made the decision beforehand.

2019 年——嗯，實際上我們事先就做出了決定。

But in 2019, we really went to the cloud with all of our data storage.

但在 2019 年，我們真正將所有資料儲存到了雲端。

We were the first to do that.

我們是第一個這麼做的。

I'm not even sure if others have done it yet.

我什至不確定其他人是否已經這樣做了。

And we thought that was very important to build efficiency and scalability and speed of handling volumes going up and down.

我們認為這對於提高效率、可擴展性和處理數量上升和下降的速度非常重要。

It also is critical to digital and ultimately, AI, I believe.

我相信，它對於數位化和最終的人工智慧也至關重要。

And so, we did that in 2019.

所以，我們在 2019 年做到了這一點。

We also made a decision to get everybody in the company on one integrated operating platform, SoftPro.

我們也決定讓公司所有人都使用一個整合式操作平台 SoftPro。

We've worked very hard over the last three, four, five years to do that.

為了實現這個目標，我們在過去三、四、五年裡付出了很多努力。

And we've got over 90% of our operations on that platform, and we'll be close to 100 as we get through 2025.

我們 90% 以上的業務都在這個平台上進行，到 2025 年，這個數字將接近 100。

And then a lot of focus around how to get a large percentage of our title production.

然後我們將重點放在如何獲得大部分的標題製作。

So I'm still kind of -- a lot of this is on the front end, Geoff, but on our title production integrated with India, integrated with our proprietary automated title technologies, integrated with our title plants, our state repository, and we have over 90% of our volume that goes through essentially two production facilities that are all integrated as I just described.

所以我仍然有點 - 其中很多都是在前端，傑夫，但我們的產權生產與印度集成，與我們的專有自動化產權技術集成，與我們的產權工廠、我們的國家存儲庫集成，我們有超過 90% 的產量通過基本上兩個生產設施，正如我剛才描述的那樣，它們都是集成的。

And I think that's been very helpful for us as we've dealt with volumes up and down, certainly on the upside really helped drive that outsized margin performance in '21.

我認為這對我們非常有幫助，因為我們已經處理了交易量的起伏，當然從好的方面來看，這確實有助於推動21年超額的利潤表現。

At the same time, we've built out -- I think the industry is only digital transaction platform, and we've got it across the footprint of the company.

同時，我們已經建立了——我認為是業內唯一的數位交易平台，而且我們已經將其覆蓋到整個公司。

We're seeing a lot of use of that on the part of customers.

我們發現很多客戶都對此有所利用。

And I think the next environment is seeing that more impacting the closing side and probably also focusing on AI.

我認為下一個環境將對收尾方面產生更大的影響，並且可能也會關注人工智慧。

We named a Chief AI Officer in '24.

我們在24年任命了一位首席人工智慧長。

We developed a working group.

我們成立了一個工作小組。

We've got a number of use cases.

我們有許多用例。

We've rolled a couple of things out to all of our employees relative to AI, more from a personal productivity standpoint.

我們向所有員工推出了一些與人工智慧相關的產品，更多的是從個人生產力的角度出發。

But we're going to continue to look at the front end and get more efficient there and really now see how we can make it a better user experience, better customer experience, better employee experience on the closing side.

但我們將繼續專注於前端，提高其效率，並真正看到如何在收尾方面提供更好的使用者體驗、更好的客戶體驗和更好的員工體驗。

Any way to think about what efficiency opportunity there is on the margin from the back end, is it a 10% to 20% upside to normalize, is there any way to qualify that?

有沒有辦法考慮一下後端利潤率上存在哪些效率機會，如果正常化的話是否有 10% 到 20% 的上升空間，有沒有什麼辦法可以限定這一點？

Yeah.

是的。

I think at this time, Geoff, I'd be reluctant to put a number to it because we probably just have -- we need a little bit more rigor on the work to come up with a number, but I definitely expect upside.

傑夫，我想此時我還不願意給出一個數字，因為我們可能只是——我們需要更加嚴謹地工作才能得出一個數字，但我絕對期待上升空間。

I mean you just think about if people are self-serving on a platform.

我的意思是，你只要想想人們在平台上是否只顧自己利益。

We had 1 million people using the technology last year for in here.

去年我們有 100 萬人在這裡使用這項技術。

That's just reducing phone calls and e-mails, and you're going to start to see some benefits.

這只是減少電話和電子郵件，你就會開始看到一些好處。

But there's probably more there as we get to a true or higher use of a full digital transaction, meaning not just starting and tracking, but starting, tracking, signing, and closing.

但隨著我們真正或更高程度地使用全數位化交易，可能會有更多的事情發生，這意味著不僅僅是啟動和跟踪，而是啟動、跟踪、簽名和結束。

And I think that will develop over time.

我認為隨著時間的推移，這種情況將會發展。

It just isn't quite there yet in the industry.

只是在業界還沒達到這個水準。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Mike.

麥克風。

Thank you.

謝謝。

We reached end of our question answer session.

我們的問答環節結束了。

I'd like to turn the floor back over to Mike for any further closing comments.

我想將發言權交還給麥克，請他發表進一步的結論。

We are very pleased with the exceptional performance of 2024 with both businesses executing well in the current market.

我們對 2024 年的出色表現感到非常滿意，兩項業務在當前市場中表現良好。

The Title segment remains poised for a rebound in transactional levels, and we continue to invest in the business for the long term while delivering industry-leading margins.

產權業務部門的交易水準仍有望反彈，我們將繼續對該業務進行長期投資，同時實現業界領先的利潤率。

Likewise, F&G has many opportunities ahead to continue to drive asset growth and deliver on its Investor Day targets for margin expansion and accretive returns.

同樣，F＆G 還有很多機會繼續推動資產成長並實現投資者日的利潤率擴大和增值回報目標。

Thanks for your time this morning.

感謝您今天上午抽出時間。

We appreciate your interest in FNF and look forward to updating you on our first-quarter earnings call.

感謝您對 FNF 的關注，我們期待在第一季財報電話會議上向您通報最新情況。

Thank you.

謝謝。

That does conclude today's teleconference.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

You may disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day.

此時您可以斷開您的線路，並享受美好的一天。

We thank you for your participation today.

我們感謝您今天的參與。