埃尼石油 (E) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Eni's 2025 first half results conference call hosted by Mr. Claudio Descalzi, Chief Executive Officer.

女士們、先生們，下午好，歡迎參加由執行長克勞迪奧·德斯卡爾齊先生主持的埃尼 2025 年上半年業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) I am now handing you over to your host to begin today's conference. Thank you.

（操作員指示）現在我將您交給主持人，開始今天的會議。謝謝。

Thank you. Good afternoon, and welcome to our Q2 2025 result presentation. I'm pleased to say that the strong and consistent pace of strategic progress we have set in transforming Eni has continued through the first half of 2025.

謝謝。下午好，歡迎參加我們的 2025 年第二季業績報告。我很高興地說，我們在埃尼轉型過程中設定的強勁而持續的策略進展步伐將持續到 2025 年上半年。

Our speed of action is enabled by the clarity of our strategic intent that can be summarized as in upstream, delivering efficient competitive growth and improving the return of our portfolio, most notably through exploration success, active portfolio management and organic production start-ups and ramp-ups.

我們行動的速度得益於我們清晰的戰略意圖，可以概括為在上游實現高效的競爭增長並提高投資組合的回報，最顯著的是透過勘探成功、積極的投資組合管理和有機生產的啟動和提升。

Integrating our equity gas production into LNG chain to maximize value. In particular, Eni is the leader in floating LNG, which provides an opportunity to unlock a large amount of resources in associated gas or from deepwater from far from shore discoveries.

將我們的權益天然氣生產整合到液化天然氣鏈中，以實現價值最大化。尤其是埃尼公司，它是浮式液化天然氣領域的領導者，這為從遠離海岸的發現中釋放大量伴生氣或深水資源提供了機會。

In parallel, building new complementary and competitively advantaged energy business related to end product decarbonization, such as Enilive, Plenitude, and CCUS, transforming the downstream and chemicals, converting these businesses to new growth opportunities such as our plan for Versalis, enhancing profitability and margin capture in areas such as trading to take benefit of more complex energy markets and anticipating a new trend such as data center and nuclear fusion.

同時，打造與最終產品脫碳相關的新的互補且具有競爭優勢的能源業務，例如 Enilive、Plenitude 和 CCUS，改造下游和化學品，將這些業務轉化為新的成長機會（例如我們的 Versalis 計劃），提高盈利能力和利潤率，例如在貿易等領域獲取利潤，以利用更複雜的能源市場，並預測數據中心和核聚變等領域獲取新趨勢。

Critically, our business initiatives are supported and improved by a unique and innovative financial strategies that discloses value, support investment and growth, and contribute to our enhanced balance sheet strength with leverage at historic lows.

至關重要的是，我們的業務計劃得到了獨特和創新的財務策略的支持和改進，這些策略可以披露價值、支持投資和成長，並透過歷史低點的槓桿率增強我們的資產負債表實力。

Executing this strategy, we expect to grow CFFO by around a total of 40% by 2030 and materially improve return on capital employed. This, in turn, drives shareholders' returns, which are our first commitment, combining a competitive euro-denominated dividend that has been growing at over 5% per year and is our top priority with our share buyback program.

透過實施此策略，我們預計到 2030 年 CFFO 將成長約 40%，並大幅提高資本使用回報率。這反過來又推動了股東回報，這是我們的首要承諾，加上具有競爭力的歐元計價股息，該股息每年增長超過 5%，也是我們股票回購計劃的首要任務。

If we now take a look at the important development of the year-to-date and day context, we continue to grow and enhance our upstream. The key engine of our organic growth remains our industry-leading exploration.

如果我們現在看一下年初至今和當天的重要發展，我們將繼續發展並增強我們的上游。我們有機成長的關鍵引擎仍然是我們行業領先的探索。

In first half, we discovered around 600 million barrels of oil equivalent of new resources, including from Namibia, Ivory Coast, and Norway. And in the second half, we have significant further activity including follow drilling in Namibia, Angola, a material prospect offshore Indonesia.

上半年，我們發現了約6億桶油當量的新資源，包括來自納米比亞、科特迪瓦和挪威的資源。下半年，我們將進行進一步的重要活動，包括在納米比亞、安哥拉和印尼近海的重要勘探區進行追蹤鑽探。

Our Norwegian satellite started up two major projects Johan Castberg in March, and Balder X in June, which will contribute towards driving Versalis production to more than 400,000 barrels per day in Q4 this year. These are the first two of five major projects in the Eni portfolio due for the first production in 2025 with Agogo NGC in Angola and second floating LNG in Congo to come on stream in second half.

我們的挪威衛星在 3 月啟動了兩個主要項目 Johan Castberg，6 月啟動了 Balder X，這將有助於推動 Versalis 的產量在今年第四季度達到每天 40 萬桶以上。這是埃尼投資組合中五個主要項目中的前兩個，預計將於 2025 年首次投產，其中一個是安哥拉的 Agogo NGC 項目，另一個是剛果的第二個浮式液化天然氣項目，將於下半年投產。

We are now advancing our fourth and largest upstream satellite, focused on Asian LNG in combination with Petronas in Indonesia and Malaysia. I will come back to this in a moment.

我們目前正在推進我們的第四個也是最大的上游衛星，重點是亞洲液化天然氣，與印尼和馬來西亞的馬來西亞國家石油公司合作。我稍後會再談這個問題。

In June, we also opened a new equity gas to LNG opportunity by signing an agreement with YPF for the Argentina LNG project, combining significant resources in the Vaca Muerta and 12 million-tonne per year floating as per facility. Alongside our existing development portfolio focused on time to market and our continuing exploration success, we are forming compelling visibility over the profile of our long-term upstream activities.

6 月份，我們也與 YPF 簽署了阿根廷液化天然氣計畫協議，將瓦卡穆埃爾塔的大量資源與每年 1,200 萬噸的浮式設施結合起來，開闢了天然氣轉液化天然氣的新機會。除了我們現有的專注於上市時間和持續勘探成功的開發組合之外，我們還對長期上游活動的概況形成了令人信服的可見性。

Alongside growing upstream, our strategy in building transition businesses supported by aligned fresh investment is unique and delivering material value while strengthening and diversifying any overall returns. With the conversion of Sannazzaro into a biorefinery, we have now four additional biorefinery projects in pipeline, of which two are located in the Asian market.

除了上游業務的成長之外，我們透過協調的新投資支持建立轉型業務的策略是獨特的，並且在加強和多樣化整體回報的同時提供了實質價值。隨著桑納扎羅轉變為生物精煉廠，我們現在有四個額外的生物精煉廠項目正在籌備中，其中兩個位於亞洲市場。

Plenitude biding offer to Azule Energy made in June grows the customer base by more than 10%, parallel to the expansion of renewable capacity. Indeed, that capacity growth will also be marked in 2025, growing by over 30% year-on-year to over 5.5 gigawatt net to Plenitude or more than 7 gigawatts in gross terms.

6 月份，Plenitude 向 Azule Energy 發出了投標要約，這使得客戶群增加了 10% 以上，同時再生能源產能也擴大了。事實上，2025 年發電容量也將顯著成長，年增 30% 以上，Plenitude 的淨發電容量將超過 5.5 千兆瓦，總量將超過 7 千兆瓦。

The growth outlook for Enilive and Plenitude with EBITDA close to tripling between 2024 and 2030 is being recognized by important investors. In addition to the top-up by EIP taking their stake to 10%, we announced the EUR2 billion investment by Ares for a 20% stake, valuing Plenitude at around EUR12 billion in enterprise value. This transaction is expected to close around the end of the year.

Enilive 和 Plenitude 的成長前景得到了重要投資者的認可，2024 年至 2030 年間 EBITDA 將成長近兩倍。除了 EIP 增持其股份至 10% 之外，我們還宣布 Ares 投資 20 億歐元獲得 20% 的股份，對 Plenitude 的企業價值進行估值，約 120 億歐元。預計交易將於今年底左右完成。

In April, KKR topped up its stake to 30% in Enilive by investing EUR601 million following the EUR2.96 billion we collected in March.

繼 3 月籌集 29.6 億歐元之後，KKR 於 4 月又投資 6.01 億歐元，將 Enilive 的持股比例增至 30%。

Our satellite model is also adaptable to supporting a more nascent business. In May, we agreed an exclusivity agreement with GIP related to the sale of a 49.99% stake in our CCUS activities, providing a line capital add of the build-out of a wider platform on CCUS project and is expected to close in the second half of 2025. The agreement followed financial close reached in April with the UK government on our Liverpool Bay project.

我們的衛星模型也適用於支援更新興的業務。今年 5 月，我們與 GIP 達成了一項獨家協議，涉及出售我們 CCUS 業務 49.99% 的股份，為 CCUS 項目更廣泛平台的建設提供線路資本補充，預計將於 2025 年下半年完成。該協議是繼我們四月與英國政府就利物浦灣計畫達成財務協議後達成的。

Finally, our goal of improving financial performance and profitability is also focused on corporate cost efficiency. But in this respect, our transformation plan for Versalis is a critical lever. In this, we are accelerating our actions.

最後，我們提高財務績效和獲利能力的目標也集中在企業成本效率。但從這個方面來說，我們針對 Versalis 的轉型計畫是一個關鍵的槓桿。對此，我們正在加快行動。

In March, we closed the Brindisi steam cracker, and we closed Priolo in July, well ahead our original plan. These closures will allow us to address a significant portion of the losses through the remainder of 2025 and 2026. Together with the investment into new platform, they will contribute to delivering a turnaround in EBIT of almost EUR1 billion, bringing Versalis back to free cash flow breakeven at the end of our four-year plan.

3 月份，我們關閉了布林迪西蒸汽裂解廠，7 月我們關閉了普里奧洛廠，遠遠提前了原計劃。這些關閉將使我們能夠在 2025 年剩餘時間和 2026 年解決大部分損失。加上對新平台的投資，它們將有助於實現近 10 億歐元的息稅前利潤扭虧為盈，使 Versalis 在我們四年計劃結束時恢復自由現金流收支平衡。

Q2 results broadly reflect Eni sensitivity to the scenario. We are delivering in line with our guidance. In the upstream, production was 1.67 million barrel per day in line with our guided range. EBIT for the quarter was around EUR1.7 billion. And pro forma EBIT of EUR2.4 billion was both consistent with the prevailing scenario.

第二季的業績大致反映了埃尼對該情景的敏感度。我們正在按照我們的指導方針行事。上游產量為每天 167 萬桶，符合我們的指導範圍。本季息稅前利潤約17億歐元。預計息稅前利潤為 24 億歐元，與目前情況一致。

GGP result benefit from the positive effect of a contract renegotiation and full year pro forma EBIT is now expected to be around EUR1 billion, capturing the original guidance upside. Enilive saw an improvement in EBITDA versus Q1, almost unchanged year-over-year. This positive momentum should be supported by typically stronger marketing contribution in Q3 and the recovery in bio spread that we already saw toward the end of Q2.

GGP 業績受惠於合約重新談判的正面影響，預計全年預測息稅前利潤 (EBIT) 約為 10 億歐元，達到最初的預期上行空間。Enilive 的 EBITDA 與第一季相比有所改善，與去年同期相比幾乎沒有變化。這一積極勢頭應該會受到第三季更強勁的營銷貢獻以及我們在第二季末已經看到的生物傳播復甦的支持。

Plenitude was supported by retail business and continued progress in renewable production. Both transition businesses remain on track to meet the full year guided result. Versalis results show an improvement quarter-on-quarter, but remain significantly loss-making. Ahead of the expected positive impact of the transformation plan now underway, the first effect of which should be observed in second half. Our refining operations improved on Q1 on a better margin, but were impacted by downtime at key assets.

Plenitude 得到了零售業務和再生能源生產的持續進步的支持。兩項轉型業務仍有望實現全年預期業績。Versalis 的業績較上一季有所改善，但仍大幅虧損。目前正在進行的轉型計劃預計將產生正面影響，其第一個效果應該會在下半年顯現。我們的煉油業務在第一季有所改善，利潤率有所提高，但受到關鍵資產停工的影響。

Cash flows before working capital in the quarter were EUR2.8 billion or EUR6.2 billion for the half year, maintaining our efficient conversion of earnings into cash. Gross CapEx year-to-date stands at EUR3.9 billion, and we are on track to deliver the lowered guidance of under EUR8.5 billion for the full year, while the net CapEx is expected below EUR6 billion, thanks mainly to the Ares investment into Plenitude and upstream valorizations.

本季營運資本前現金流為 28 億歐元，上半年為 62 億歐元，維持了我們將收益高效地轉化為現金。年初至今的總資本支出為 39 億歐元，我們預計將實現全年低於 85 億歐元的下調預期，而淨資本支出預計低於 60 億歐元，這主要歸功於 Ares 對 Plenitude 和上游增值的投資。

On the cash initiatives of EUR2 billion announced with our Q1 result, EUR1 billion has been delivered. Moreover, we have identified a further EUR1 billion to be captured by the end of the year, raising the total benefit to EUR3 billion. In the first half of the year, we repurchased EUR0.66 billion, of which EUR0.3 billion related to our 2025 program that we confirm to complete in Q1 2026. Net debt fell again quarter-on-quarter to EUR10.2 billion, EUR2billion lower than year-end 2024. And leverage stood at 19% despite the impact from ForEx on equity balances.

我們在第一季業績中宣布了 20 億歐元的現金計劃，其中已落實 10 億歐元。此外，我們也確定到今年底將再獲得 10 億歐元，使總收益達到 30 億歐元。上半年，我們回購了6.6億歐元，其中3億歐元與我們的2025年計畫有關，我們確認將於2026年第一季完成。淨債務較上季再次下降至 102 億歐元，比 2024 年底低 20 億歐元。儘管外匯對股票餘額有影響，但槓桿率仍維持在 19%。

With outstanding valorization received, pro forma leverage was 10% equivalent to 9% net debt to capital, the lowest level in our history.

由於收到了未償付的增值，預計槓桿率為 10%，相當於淨債務與資本之比為 9%，這是我們歷史上的最低水準。

Before moving to Q&A, I want to update on an important achievement in this quarter, our upstream combination with Petronas in Indonesia and Malaysia. Since announcing the MOU in February, significant work has continued, culminating in the framework agreement signed in June setting out key principles, including the asset level valuation of the respective contribution yield, a 50-50 split.

在進入問答環節之前，我想先介紹一下本季的一項重要成就，即我們與印尼和馬來西亞國家石油公司的上游業務合併。自從二月宣布諒解備忘錄以來，重要工作一直在持續進行，最終於六月簽署了框架協議，其中列出了關鍵原則，包括資產水平估值和各自貢獻收益率的 50-50 分割。

Work is continuing on completing financial due diligence in defining the business plan, in receiving the relevant approvals ahead of the completion targeted around the end of 2025. Our upstream satellite model is proving to be a powerful means of creating critical mass and new strategic options and generating material additional cash flow. Azure, Itaka clearly demonstrate this.

目前，我們正在繼續進行財務盡職調查，制定商業計劃，並在 2025 年底左右完成之前獲得相關批准。事實證明，我們的上游衛星模型是創造臨界規模和新戰略選擇以及產生額外現金流的有力手段。Azure、Itaka 清楚地證明了這一點。

Our combination with Petronas replicates the model and will be our largest to date, creating a leading regional player with an exceptional growth outlook in a highly dynamic area of the world where gas demand is forecast to increase substantially, and with significant capacity to independently fund its investment program.

我們與馬來西亞國家石油公司的合併複製了這一模式，並將成為我們迄今為止規模最大的合併，創造了一個領先的區域性企業，在全球高度活躍的地區擁有卓越的增長前景，該地區的天然氣需求預計將大幅增長，並且擁有獨立為其投資計劃提供資金的強大能力。

Together with Petronas asset, the combination will combine 19 blocks and across Indonesia and Malaysia, spanning production, development and exploration activities. Five FIDs are targeted for 2026 and four more in the following years. And we expect gross production of over 300,000 barrels per day at closing with a prospect of over 500,000 barrels per day in four, five years. Additional exploration success offers the prospect of even higher production levels, standing well into the 2030s. as emphasized by the over 10 billion barrels of estimated unrisked resources in place.

加上馬來西亞國家石油公司的資產，該組合將涵蓋印尼和馬來西亞的 19 個區塊，涵蓋生產、開發和勘探活動。2026 年計劃進行 5 項最終投資決定，隨後幾年將進行 4 項最終投資決定。我們預計，最終產量將超過每天 30 萬桶，四、五年後預計將超過每天 50 萬桶。進一步的勘探成功有望實現更高的產量水平，並持續到2030年代。據估計，現有無風險資源量超過100億桶。

Indeed, at least 10 highly probability of success, high impact wells are planned to be drilled over the next three years, aiming to prove up this material upside. We have also agreed a mechanism for the JV to compensate the legacy acreage owner for new discoveries made, representing a further source of cash upside. In addition, we continue to expect to valorize a retained minority equity stake in blocks in a separate portfolio operation likely in 2026.

事實上，未來三年計畫鑽探至少 10 口成功率高、影響大的井，旨在證明這項材料的優勢。我們也同意了合資公司對原有油田所有者的新發現進行補償的機制，這代表著進一步的現金成長來源。此外，我們預計可能在 2026 年對單獨投資組合營運中的區塊中保留的少數股權進行估值。

The Petronas combination is a compelling example of how EBITDA uses is distinct features: exploration skills and technologies valuable relationship, dual exploration and satellite model to deliver portfolio high-grading, growth, cash and ultimately, value. In a way, I would say it's unique in the industry and is highly material to EBITDA.

與馬來西亞國家石油公司的合併是一個引人注目的例子，它展示了 EBITDA 如何利用其獨特的特性：勘探技能和技術、寶貴的關係、雙重勘探和衛星模型，以實現投資組合的高等級、成長、現金以及最終的價值。從某種程度上來說，我認為它在行業中是獨一無二的，並且對 EBITDA 至關重要。

Looking ahead, the second half of the year will build on our strategic execution, speeding up growth and value delivering in 2026. Production will benefit from the start-ups and ramp-ups to eat around 1.7 million barrel per day full year guidance. The third quarter will reflect this impellent growth, but also the usual seasonal maintenance activity with the production seen at between 1.7 million and 1.72 million barrels per day.

展望未來，下半年我們將以策略執行為基礎，加速2026年的成長和價值實現。產量將受益於新工廠的啟動和擴產，全年產量將達到每天 170 萬桶左右。第三季將反映出這種強勁的成長勢頭，但也反映出通常的季節性維護活動，產量將在每天 170 萬桶至 172 萬桶之間。

New renewable power generation capacity will come on stream to reach the target of over 5.5 gigawatts by the end of the year. We now expect CFFO in 2025 to be EUR11.5 billion, EUR0.5 billion higher than our Q1 outlook and EUR0.5 billion higher on an underlying basis than our original guidance.

今年底，新增再生能源發電裝置容量將達到5.5吉瓦以上的目標。我們現在預計 2025 年 CFFO 將達到 115 億歐元，比我們第一季的預測高出 5 億歐元，並且比我們最初的指導高出 5 億歐元。

In addition, we realize the remaining EUR2 billion of the overall EUR3 billion of cash initiatives I highlighted earlier. Distribution will continue as promised, with a steady pace of buyback to recognize to our investors an attractive and resilient returns in a volatile market.

此外，我們還實現了我先前強調的總計 30 億歐元現金計畫中剩餘的 20 億歐元。分銷將按照承諾繼續進行，並以穩定的步伐回購，以便在動蕩的市場中為我們的投資者帶來有吸引力且有彈性的回報。

We will continue to keep the company pro forma leverage between 15% and 20% in 2025 within the planned range. On the basis of these results, our operational momentum and with the closing of the current life deals, we can expect a positive second half of the year, an even more promising 2026 that we've built on a larger, diversified and more valuable set of assets.

我們將繼續把公司2025年的準備槓桿率維持在15%-20%的計畫範圍內。基於這些結果、我們的營運動能以及當前人壽交易的結束，我們可以預期今年下半年將有一個積極的發展，而我們將在更大、更多樣化、更有價值的資產基礎上建立更光明的 2026 年。

And now with the team, we are ready to answer your question. Thank you.

現在我們的團隊已準備好回答您的問題。謝謝。

Josh Stone, UBS.

瑞銀的喬許史東。

First question I'll ask is on GGP. You signed a fairly large contract at Venture Global this quarter starting 2030. It's significant first this US LNG contracts you've signed. I'm sure when a part of you buy there's an arbitration ongoing with some of your competitors peers. So I was curious as to if you could elaborate on the terms of that contract? And what gives you the confidence that these volumes will appear as promised when the project starts up?

我要問的第一個問題是關於 GGP 的。您本季與 Venture Global 簽署了一份從 2030 年開始的相當大的合約。首先，您簽署的這份美國液化天然氣合約意義重大。我確信，當您購買部分產品時，您的一些競爭對手之間會進行仲裁。所以我很好奇您是否可以詳細說明一下該合約的條款？那麼，您如何確信專案啟動時這些數量將如承諾的那樣出現？

And then second question, actually, a bit more of a modeling question around the satellites, your stake in Enilive has now gone to 70% and Energy will go to the same level at the end of the year. It's quite mature it to model the minority interest. But in terms of the minority dividends, are you able to give any guidance there? I presume your private equity backers want to get paid at some point. And is there any dividend policy within these? And how should we account for that in our cash flow balances would be helpful. Okay.

然後是第二個問題，實際上，這更像是一個圍繞衛星的建模問題，您在 Enilive 的股份現在已經達到 70%，而 Energy 的股份將在年底達到同一水平。對少數股東利益的建模已經相當成熟。但是就少數股東股息而言，您能給予任何指導嗎？我推測你的私募股權支持者希望在某個時候獲得報酬。其中有任何股利政策嗎？我們應該如何在現金流餘額中考慮這一點將會很有幫助。好的。

Thank you for the question. The first question is for Guido for GDP and the second, Francesco is going to answer.

謝謝你的提問。第一個問題是向 Guido 詢問 GDP，第二個問題由 Francesco 回答。

Well, of course, we cannot comment on the third-party contract and proceedings. We know that there is an arbitration ongoing. We know which provision has been posted by Venture Global. And of course -- but of course, we rely very much on their project ability to deliver modular plant as they did already in the past. As far as concerned, the contract in itself, we've actively scouted the market, and we found this project very competitive.

當然，我們無法對第三方合約和訴訟程序發表評論。我們知道仲裁正在進行中。我們知道 Venture Global 發布了哪些規定。當然——但當然，我們非常依賴他們的專案能力來交付模組化工廠，就像他們過去所做的那樣。就合約本身而言，我們已經積極地考察了市場，發現這個項目非常有競爭力。

We found it very much in line with our need to complement our portfolio of contracted volumes. As you know, we have a target to hit 20 million tonnes per annum, and also to cover geographically the whole globe and this contract is very complementary to our current portfolio, which covers East and West Africa, Middle East and Far East.

我們發現這非常符合我們補充合約量組合的需求。如您所知，我們的目標是達到每年 2000 萬噸，並且覆蓋全球地理範圍，而該合約與我們目前覆蓋東非、西非、中東和遠東的投資組合非常互補。

Yes, about the distribution policy that are related to Enilive and Plenitude, we do not disclose this value that are related to clearly reference to net results and a proportion of that. And I think we can provide the further details in the future. But for the time being, we are not disclosing that volume that are not particularly material in this space.

是的，關於與 Enilive 和 Plenitude 相關的分配政策，我們不會揭露與明確參考淨結果及其比例相關的價值。我認為我們將來可以提供更多細節。但目前，我們不會透露該領域中不是特別重要的數據。

Biraj, RBC.

比拉傑，RBC。

The first one just on the asset sale to There's roughly a two-year gap between the effective date and the expected close based on what you said. And the headline price -- it's a project where you're obviously spending quite a lot of development CapEx. So I was just wondering if the adjustment would be in Eni's favor, i.e., the cash received will be higher than the headline value or it would be lower to Eni sense of the magnitude of that adjustment there?

第一個問題只是關於資產出售，根據您所說的，生效日期和預計結束日期之間大約有兩年的差距。而標題價格——這是一個你顯然花了相當多開發資本支出的項目。所以我只是想知道調整是否會對埃尼有利，即收到的現金將高於整體價值，還是從埃尼的角度來看調整幅度會較低？

And then as we have you on the call, Claudio, I wanted to ask about succession planning. You've been CEO for over a decade now, strategy in the business has changed quite a bit over that time. Just wondering if you could give any comment around whether you're looking to be present within Eni from 2026, either as Exec Chairman or as another term CEO?

然後，當我們和克勞迪奧通話時，我想問繼任計劃。您擔任執行長已有十多年了，在此期間，業務策略發生了很大變化。我只是想知道您是否可以透露一下從 2026 年開始是否希望繼續留在 Eni 公司，擔任執行董事長還是另一任執行長？

Yes, it is right. You are correct in describing the deal, the consideration, let's say, the effective date of the deal. And clearly, the closing will take into account of the amount that is cashed in terms of production because both assets are producing assets. And clearly, in terms of investment because as you are correct in saying, there is a ramp-up of investment for reaching the plateau of the different phases. Clearly, it is still an uncertain amount because it will be the determined at the time of closing, but the consideration has to be adjusted for that amount.

是的，沒錯。您對交易、對價以及交易生效日期的描述是正確的。顯然，結算時會考慮到生產兌現的金額，因為這兩種資產都是生產資產。顯然，就投資而言，正如您所說，為了達到不同階段的穩定狀態，投資會增加。顯然，這仍然是一個不確定的金額，因為它將在交易完成時確定，但對價必須根據該金額進行調整。

So for the succession plan, what I can say is that the strength of any is not the CEO alone, is not the COO, is the team. We have a very competent strong team, that is the strength. We build together this, I can say, fantastic strategy, very resilient that has been able to navigate, is very agitated We are clearly inside of succession plan. But any people -- our people -- our management has a very strong sense of belonging, competencies and know the company and know the strategy. So I just can say that there is no worry.

因此，對於繼任計劃，我可以說，任何一個計劃的力量都不是 CEO 一個人的力量，也不是 COO 一個人的力量，而是整個團隊的力量。我們擁有一支非常有能力的強大團隊，這就是優勢。我們共同製定了這個，我可以說，非常棒的戰略，非常有彈性，能夠順利航行，非常激動，我們顯然在繼任計劃之內。但是任何人——我們的員工——我們的管理階層都有很強的歸屬感和能力，了解公司，了解策略。所以我只能說不用擔心。

I think Eni is strong because it's Eni because we have a culture because we have a strong management.

我認為埃尼之所以強大，是因為它是埃尼，因為我們有自己的文化，因為我們有強大的管理。

Peter Low, Rothschild.

羅斯柴爾德家族的彼得·洛。

Yes. The first was just on the tax rate. It's come in a bit lower than kind of your previous guidance for a couple of quarters now. Can you perhaps just elaborate on what's driving that and where we should expect it to be going forward?

是的。第一個問題只是關於稅率。目前，該數字比您之前幾季的預測略低。您能否詳細說明一下推動這一趨勢的因素以及我們對其未來發展的預期？

And then the second was on the refining market. We've seen a step-up in margins in the third quarter. There seems to be mixed views out there as to whether it's transitory or maybe a bit more structural, I'd be interested in your perspective on what's driving that? And then whether there's any reason you won't fully capture the improvement in 3Q?

第二個是關於煉油市場。我們看到第三季利潤率上升。對於這種現像是暫時的還是更具結構性，人們似乎持有不同的看法，我很想知道您對此的看法是什麼？那麼，是否有任何原因導致您無法完全掌握第三季的改善？

So from Francesco, is going to answer for the two questions.

弗朗西斯科將回答這兩個問題。

See, about the tax rate, you know that we drive tax rate in the year between 50% to 55% related to clearly our assumption on scenario, performance of the different business -- and this -- the different ways of return and results related to the business are impacting the tax rate. Another element that is more important that is becoming relevant is the conversion of loss-making business make Italian assets profitable and not instead, let's say, a factor weighing negatively on the tax rate.

關於稅率，您知道，我們將年度稅率控制在 50% 到 55% 之間，這與我們對情境的假設、不同業務的表現以及與業務相關的不同回報方式和結果都會影響稅率有關。另一個更重要且越來越相關的因素是，將虧損業務轉變為義大利資產獲利，而不是對稅率產生負面影響。

And another factor of this will allow also to restate certain tax credits that were considered not recoverable, assuming a long-term loss-making activity. So the conversion of -- by refineries, the conversion of crackers to new opportunities as the battery storage will help also to reduce the tax rate. So we can now provide a lower expectation for the tax rate closer to the 50%. So the lower boundaries or lower range of the original assumption. I leave them to for the question about the margins.

另一個因素是，假設長期虧損活動，也可以重申某些被認為無法收回的稅收抵免。因此，煉油廠的改造、裂解裝置向電池儲存等新機會的轉變也將有助於降低稅率。因此，我們現在可以對稅率提出更低的預期，接近 50%。因此這是原始假設的下限或下限範圍。我把有關利潤的問題留給他們回答。

No, about our vision on the refining margin, what we are seeing is a sudden increase in the margin starting from at the end of June, early in July. And what we expect is that for some months, the situation could remain because the storage of products is very low. The crack spread of gas oil is very, very high because of the stress in the ban of Russian crude, Russian gas oil. This is very positive for the -- at least for all the driving season.

不，關於我們對煉油利潤率的展望，我們看到的是從 6 月底到 7 月初利潤率突然上升。我們預計，由於產品庫存非常低，這種情況可能會持續數月。由於俄羅斯原油和俄羅斯柴油禁令的壓力，柴油的裂解價差非常非常高。這對於至少整個駕駛季節來說都是非常有利的。

Irene Himona, Bernstein.

艾琳希莫娜，伯恩斯坦。

My first question on Plenitude. As you clearly are moving towards the '28 capacity target of 10 gig and then 15 by 2030. Can you provide a timeline for that satellite turning cash flow neutral? So will it be by 2030 or later? And then my second question on these very material new upstream satellite in Indonesia.

我對 Plenitude 的第一個疑問。正如你們顯然正在朝著 2028 年 10G 的容量目標邁進，到 2030 年則達到 15G。您能否提供該衛星現金流轉為中性的時間表？那麼會是 2030 年或更晚嗎？我的第二個問題是關於印尼這些非常重要的新上游衛星。

To better appreciate the materiality near term, can you perhaps give us a sense of the uplift to your 2026 production CFFO, et cetera?

為了更了解近期的重要性，您能否讓我們了解 2026 年生產 CFFO 等方面的提升？

Yes. Thank you for the question, Irene. This is Stefano Goberti. For Plenitude, Plenitude is a growth company today. We -- of course, we will reach our 10 gigawatts, financing that grew by 60%, 70% from cash from operations generated by the company, the remaining through debt.

是的。謝謝你的提問，艾琳。這是 Stefano Goberti。對 Plenitude 來說，Plenitude 如今是一家成長型公司。當然，我們的發電量將達到 10 千兆瓦，融資將增加 60%，其中 70% 來自公司營運產生的現金，其餘部分則透過債務籌集。

We want to maintain a very strong financial statement balance sheet. And so the net debt to EBITDA ratio will be below 3 in our statutory numbers. And the growth will continue up to when our retail domestic client will be shared with our production from the renewable plants. And we expect this to happen between 35 and 40. So before that date, also the cash flow will turn to positive.

我們希望維持非常強勁的財務資產負債表。因此，在我們的法定數字中，淨負債與 EBITDA 的比率將低於 3。這種成長將持續下去，直到我們的國內零售客戶與我們可再生工廠的生產共享。我們預計這一情況將在 35 至 40 年之間發生。因此在該日期之前，現金流也會變成正數。

Yeah. For Indonesia, it's clearly a big project, transformational project for us, not just for the -- where it is, but also for the dimension and the potential the express. We can now disclose for sure, will be positive and give an upside in 2026. We cannot not disclose exactly figures in term of returns, financial returns or dividend or production. It's something that we're going to clarify in February when we'll present the four-year plan. But clearly, it's one of the best deal we have done in the last period and will be very accretive for Eni overall.

是的。對印尼來說，這顯然是一個大項目，對我們來說是一個轉型項目，不僅因為它的位置，還因為它的規模和潛力。我們現在可以肯定地透露，這將是積極的，並在 2026 年帶來上行潛力。我們不能透露回報、財務回報或股息或生產的確切數字。我們將在二月提出四年計劃時澄清這一點。但顯然，這是我們在過去一段時間內達成的最好的交易之一，並且對於埃尼集團整體而言將帶來巨大的增值。

Henry Tarr, Berenberg.

亨利·塔爾 (Henry Tarr)，貝倫貝格 (Berenberg)。

The first one is just on the YPF Argentina project. Could you give more color just around what might need to happen for it to reach FID? And are you happy to sort of push ahead with potentially large-scale LNG projects currently, just given the sort of large ramp-up of capacity that we're seeing in LNG towards the end of the decade?

第一個是關於 YPF 阿根廷計畫。能否詳細說明需要採取哪些措施才能達到 FID 的要求？鑑於本世紀末液化天然氣產能將大幅提升，您是否樂意推進目前可能大規模的液化天然氣計畫？

And then the second question is just on the buyback. Clearly, the balance sheet continues to be in good shape. You have had strong divestment proceeds coming in. What could cause you to reassess the buyback as you look towards the rest of the year?

第二個問題是關於回購。顯然，資產負債表繼續保持良好狀況。您已獲得豐厚的撤資收益。展望今年剩餘時間，什麼因素可能導致您重新評估回購計畫？

Okay. Guido answer on the YPF, and then I take care about the buyback.

好的。Guido 回答了 YPF 的問題，然後我負責回購。

Yeah. Of course, quite a number of steps needs to be made and fine-tuned with YPF, which includes the final project configuration and the final field development plans, commercial agreements and then offtake agreements and the project financing. So this would require some time. Our expectation is to finalize all of this by the very end of the year or beginning of next year.

是的。當然，還需要與YPF進行相當多的步驟和微調，其中包括最終的專案配置和最終的油田開發計劃、商業協議、承購協議和專案融資。所以這需要一些時間。我們期望在今年年底或明年年初完成所有這些工作。

For the buyback, we said that we presented during our Q1 buyback -- the buyback as a floor. Clearly, the trend is very positive. So we are improving. We are the execution of the strategy. I think it's really very positive.

對於回購，我們說過，我們在第一季回購期間提出了回購作為底線。顯然，趨勢非常積極。所以我們正在進步。我們是該戰略的執行者。我認為這確實非常積極。

The leverage all the KPIs are good. So we're going to see in the next months, if we are able to continue, we are very -- convinced that we can continue this trend. So we can consider, considering our balance sheet and what I said, we can consider it to improve buyback. We will be clear. in the next months, but there is this possibility.

所有 KPI 的槓桿作用都很好。因此，我們將在接下來的幾個月中看到，如果我們能夠繼續下去，我們非常有信心我們可以繼續這個趨勢。因此，我們可以考慮，考慮到我們的資產負債表和我所說的，我們可以考慮改善回購。我們會在接下來的幾個月明確這一點，但存在這種可能性。

Thanks, Henry. I would just actually just to complement one thing that Stefano said earlier on is we do disclose the net debt position of Plenitude. So you can see the capacity that the company has, just to add to Stefano's comments. We're going to move now to Lydia Rainforth at Barclays.

謝謝，亨利。我實際上只是想補充一下 Stefano 之前說的一件事，那就是我們確實披露了 Plenitude 的淨債務狀況。因此，您可以看到該公司的產能，這只是為了補充 Stefano 的評論。我們現在要去巴克萊銀行拜訪 Lydia Rainforth。

Two questions, if I could. The first, just coming back to the EUR3 billion cash management. Obviously, that looked quite a long way from where we were at 1Q. Can you just talk through that a little bit more? And have you been surprised that how easy it's been to actually to manage that cash and to get those savings? And does it make you think about the rest of the business where else you can make savings?

如果可以的話，我有兩個問題。首先，回到30億歐元的現金管理。顯然，這與我們第一季的狀況相比還有很長的路要走。能再詳細談談嗎？您是否對管理現金和獲得儲蓄實際上如此簡單感到驚訝？這是否讓您思考其他業務還有什麼地方可以節省開支？

And then secondly, I just wanted to touch on the pockets of financing that you're tapping. When I take a step back and look at the transactions that you've done, it's the combination of national oil companies, it's trading companies, it's private equity. What advantages over traditional sources of financing and partners, do you think that gives you both short term and long term?

其次，我只想談談你們所利用的融資管道。當我退一步看看你們所做的交易時，我發現它們是國家石油公司、貿易公司和私募股權的結合。與傳統的融資來源和合作夥伴相比，您認為這會為您帶來哪些短期和長期優勢？

So before asking Francesco to talk about the EUR3 billion -- first of all, it was not a It's not easy. It's not something that we start one week ago. It's something that we work and all the strategy is working. It's clearly part of the efficiency that we are finding also with a new model. With the business combination, the satellites, we are trying to delete all the over-cost or additional overlap we have in the structure.

因此，在要求弗朗西斯科談論 30 億歐元之前——首先，這並不容易。這不是我們一週前才開始做的事情。這是我們的工作，所有策略都有效。這顯然也是我們在新模型中發現的效率的一部分。透過業務合併和衛星，我們正試圖刪除結構中的所有超額成本或額外重疊。

So as I said before during the presentation in February, this not just give us dividend or the capacity to invest or to give value, but it's also a complete new organization charter for the company.

因此，正如我在二月的演講中所說的那樣，這不僅為我們帶來股息或投資能力或創造價值，也是公司的全新組織章程。

And clearly, step by step, you can improve. In this -- so we needed -- we didn't need for this for today to express an additional EUR1 billion. But after the work, we got this EUR1 billion more. It was work, not easy because it's organizational work, then we have -- we can be more flexible on our stocks with the new organization and other financial other financial move that Francesco made.

顯然，你可以一步步進步。因此，我們需要——我們今天不需要再多投入 10 億歐元。但經過這項工作，我們又獲得了10億歐元。這是一項工作，並不容易，因為這是組織工作，然後我們——利用 Francesco 制定的新組織和其他財務舉措，我們可以更靈活地處理我們的股票。

So that is the main reason. So it's not -- we are not defending ourselves because we need more cash, we are adapting our organization to the new models. you want to say something more?

這就是主要原因。所以，我們並不是因為需要更多現金而自我防禦，而只是讓我們的組織適應新的模式。您還想說些什麼嗎？

Yes. What is clear is possible in all organization to think and work differently than in the past. There are a lot of tools, financial tools or capability to redesign what was a typical cycle, for example, for payment, a typical cycle for storage, et cetera, that could be shorter to improve in term of financial needs.

是的。顯而易見的是，所有組織都有可能以不同於過去的思維方式和工作方式。有許多工具、金融工具或能力可以重新設計典型的週期，例如支付週期、儲存週期等等，這些週期可以更短，從而改善財務需求。

So it's just-in-time logic that you had, for example, in the automotive industry 20 years ago. And this gives you a lot of more availability and an efficiency in terms of user or cash because at the end of the day, the cash for an oil and gas company is expensive.

這就是 20 年前汽車產業所採用的即時邏輯。這會為您帶來更多的可用性和更高的用戶或現金效率，因為歸根結底，石油和天然氣公司的現金是昂貴的。

And outside of this company, there are other suppliers of capital and cash that are much more, let's say, cheaper and, therefore, optimizing the overall cost.

除了這家公司之外，還有其他資本和現金供應商，他們的成本更低，因此可以優化整體成本。

So the second question about new partners, though we open up to new partners, so traders or national oil energy company, funds, I think that also that is linked to the new organization that we are expressing with the model, with the satellite model because we give more opportunities.

因此，第二個問題是關於新合作夥伴的，儘管我們向新合作夥伴開放，但貿易商或國家石油能源公司、基金等也都參與其中，我認為這也與我們透過模型、透過衛星模型表達的新組織有關，因為我們提供了更多的機會。

Clearly, these partners are very good partners, especially when we work in a local situation like in Indonesia and Malaysia with a state company, we go faster. They know the asset. They know the country. They are quite -- they are in the need to give priority to their own production, to their own project.

顯然，這些合作夥伴都是非常好的合作夥伴，特別是當我們在印尼和馬來西亞這樣的當地環境中與國有企業合作時，我們的進展速度更快。他們了解這項資產。他們了解這個國家。他們非常需要優先考慮自己的生產、自己的專案。

So the same need we have. They don't have any other priority than give value to their own resources. Then we have other -- the fund, the fund clearly has been very key. And so these private partners in developing our transition satellite. That is good because the due diligence, they go, they dive deep inside your model, they challenge you and it's not typically the role of another oil and gas company because they put money, we run the show.

所以我們有同樣的需求。除了重視自己的資源之外，他們沒有其他優先考慮的事情。然後我們還有其他的——基金，基金顯然非常關鍵。這些私人合作夥伴正在開發我們的過渡衛星。這很好，因為他們會進行盡職調查，深入你的模型，向你提出挑戰，而這通常不是其他石油和天然氣公司的角色，因為他們投入資金，我們來掌控局面。

We are in charge. We are operator and we define a different -- so it's a different logic. So once again -- once again, the model that we started three years ago that now is going very well and is giving a very strength to our non just balance sheet, but to our organization, open up new possibility, more focused, more faster and therefore us is essential. We need to go fast. We don't want to lose money and time.

我們是負責人。我們是運營商，我們定義了不同的——所以這是一個不同的邏輯。所以再說一次——我們三年前啟動的模式現在進展非常順利，不僅為我們的資產負債表提供了強大的力量，而且對我們的組織也開闢了新的可能性，更加專注，更加快速，因此對我們來說至關重要。我們需要快點行動。我們不想浪費金錢和時間。

And when there is resources, we try to find the partner, the right partner that is focused to deliver as soon as possible return on that resources, and that are the right partners.

當有資源時，我們會嘗試尋找合作夥伴，合適的合作夥伴，專注於盡快實現資源回報，這就是合適的合作夥伴。

Alejandro Vigil, Santander.

桑坦德的亞歷杭德羅·維吉爾。

Yes. The first question is about the -- you can share with us the opportunity of Energia, you can discuss this potential investment. And the second is hearing Alex's comments about satellites. Just a question about the -- if Namibia could be another potential satellite considering the process that Gulf is now currently trying to execute there.

是的。第一個問題是關於——您可以與我們分享 Energia 的機會，您可以討論這項潛在的投資。第二個是聽亞歷克斯對衛星的評論。我有一個問題：考慮到海灣國家目前正在嘗試在納米比亞實施的進程，納米比亞是否可能成為另一個潛在的衛星國？

A Chair please (multiple speakers) --

請給我一張椅子（多位發言者）——

Yeah, about the Chair not Namibia.

是的，關於主席，而不是納米比亞。

Namibia at the moment don't try to do something that is not in your own competition.

納米比亞目前不要試圖做一些與自己無關的事情。

No, no. A Chair transaction. We submitted a binding offer and the Board of Directors, a Chair upset the binding offer. You know that -- we offer a value for the company, an enterprise value of EUR460 million, plus a potential another EUR100 million to be verified in terms of KPI and target KPI on the quality of the customer base in June 2027, plus the cash position normalized for another EUR130 million.

不，不。主席交易。我們提交了一份具有約束力的要約，但董事會主席否決了該要約。您知道——我們為該公司提供的價值為 4.6 億歐元的企業價值，另外還有 1 億歐元的潛在價值，將在 2027 年 6 月根據客戶群質量的 KPI 和目標 KPI 進行驗證，再加上 1.3 億歐元的正常化現金狀況。

The operation for us is pretty in line in our strategy because we will acquire counting the customer base at the end of 2024, 1.4 million clients, 70% of which are power clients, so perfectly in line with our strategy to increase the power client customer base. So I would say, a very good operation, and we hope to complete it as soon as possible.

對我們來說，這次營運非常符合我們的策略，因為到 2024 年底，我們將獲得 140 萬客戶，其中 70％ 是電力客戶，因此完全符合我們增加電力客戶群的策略。所以我想說，這是一個非常好的手術，我們希望盡快完成它。

The process is taking the necessary authority authorization mainly from antitrust. So we envisage by the first half of 2026 to close the operation.

這個過程主要需要反壟斷部門的必要授權。因此，我們預計到 2026 年上半年將結束這項業務。

Well, Namibia is a clear example of how effective our -- is our business model with the satellite. So when we created the satellite of Azule, the objective was, of course, to develop the resources in the country, but of course, also to expand regionally, and Namibia is a clear example of that strategy materializing into an execution.

納米比亞就是一個明顯的例子，顯示了我們的衛星商業模式有多有效。因此，當我們創建 Azule 衛星時，目標當然是開發該國的資源，但當然也是為了進行區域擴張，納米比亞就是該戰略付諸實施的一個明顯例子。

No interest in the Gulf process?

對海灣進程不感興趣？

No, we are not interested. We have found our resources. We have a new exploration well coming. So we are focused on our block and our resources at the moment.

不，我們不感興趣。我們已經找到了我們的資源。我們即將迎來新的探索。因此，我們目前專注於我們的區塊和資源。

We're going to move from Alejandro to Alessandro, Mediobanca.

我們將從 Alejandro 搬到 Mediobanca 的 Alessandro。

So I have two questions. And the first one is going back to your opening remarks around Versalis. You talked about the acceleration in the restructuring plan. Can you maybe talk about what would be the next milestones in the second half into next year for the restructuring of Versalis? And how do you expect chemicals margins to evolve?

我有兩個問題。首先回顧一下您關於凡爾賽的開場白。您談到了重組計劃的加速。您能否談談明年下半年 Versalis 重組的下一個里程碑是什麼？您預計化學品利潤率將如何改變？

And the second question, always on the on the outlook by this time on biofuels. One of your competitors reported really good results the other day. Maybe can you talk about the dynamics in biofuel markets as we go into second half and 2026 again?

第二個問題始終是關於生物燃料的前景。前幾天，您的一位競爭對手報告了非常好的業績。也許您能談談我們進入下半年和 2026 年時生物燃料市場的動態嗎？

Okay. Thank you for the question, Adriano, and then Stephano for biofuels.

好的。謝謝阿德里亞諾的提問，然後是史蒂芬諾關於生物燃料的提問。

Thanks, Alessandro, for the question. So as you might have seen from the public announcement, we decided to speed up a little bit the action plan that we announced about the closing of the cracker in Brindisi and the closing of the cracker in Priolo.

謝謝亞歷山德羅提出這個問題。因此，正如您可能從公告中看到的那樣，我們決定稍微加快關閉布林迪西裂解廠和普里奧洛裂解廠的行動計劃。

When you close big machine, the positive impact start to materialize after 12 months. But that said, in the second half of 2020, 2025, we are going to see some positive effect in the range of EUR90 million, almost EUR100 million. And this is coming from more or less EUR60 million, EUR65 million from the shutdown of the two big machine, another EUR20 million, EUR25 million from the development of the new platforms.

當你關閉大型機器時，12 個月後正面影響就會開始顯現。但話雖如此，到 2020 年下半年、2025 年，我們將看到 9,000 萬歐元至近 1 億歐元左右的正面影響。這筆資金大約來自關閉兩台大型機器所獲得的 6,000 萬歐元、6,500 萬歐元，另外還有 2,000 萬歐元、2,500 萬歐元來自新平台的開發。

Clearly, when I say the project that you start to see the big effect by the second half of 2026. So the effect of this efficiency and this shutdown will be in the range of EUR250 million on a yearly basis. So you start to see from the second half of 2026. And of course, you start to see more in 2026 coming from the development of the new platform plus a more efficiency plan. Going to your question about how we see the scenario.

顯然，當我說這個專案時，你會在 2026 年下半年開始看到巨大的效果。因此，此次增效和停產帶來的效益每年將在 2.5 億歐元左右。所以你從 2026 年下半年開始就能看到。當然，到 2026 年，您將會看到更多來自新平台的開發和更有效率的計畫。回到你關於我們如何看待這種情況的問題。

Honestly, we see lack of meaningful economic recovery in the chemical sector in Europe. So we see some slight improvement in the scenario, but as I said, there are very slight improvement. So all this number that we provide to you are based on pretty much flight scenario. Yes.

坦白說，我們認為歐洲化工產業缺乏有意義的經濟復甦。因此，我們看到情況略有改善，但正如我所說，改善非常輕微。因此，我們向您提供的所有數字都是基於飛行場景的。是的。

Yeah. Alessandro, thank you for the question. Definitely, market dynamics are improving significantly. And reason we can simplify are twofold. From one side, we are seeing additional demand. This is in line with our expectation.

是的。亞歷山德羅，謝謝你的提問。毫無疑問，市場動態正在顯著改善。我們可以簡化的原因有兩個。一方面，我們看到了額外的需求。這符合我們的預期。

We said demand would have come, for example, from Germany or from South close to the second half of the year, and this is what's going on. Second, there are a set of very good news, both in EU and in US about future demand target. An example, Germany published a proposal on the Renewable Energy Directive 3 deployment. And this proposal is moving the 14% of reduction to '25, 2030, and they're even setting a target for 2040, very relevant one.

我們說過，例如，需求會來自德國或接近下半年的南方，而這正是正在發生的事情。其次，歐盟和美國都傳出了一系列關於未來需求目標的非常好的消息。例如，德國發布了關於部署再生能源指令3的提案。這項提案將 14% 的減排目標提前到 2030 年，甚至為 2040 年設定了目標，非常相關。

And second, they are proposing to get rid of the double counting feedstock. This means a significant increase of demand even that every HVO will count for one and not for two. In US, we have a similar situation. We have a proposal from the EPA for the new renewable volume obligation for 2026. And it's a big step-up in terms of demand above 50%.

其次，他們提議取消重複計算的原料。這意味著需求將大幅增加，即使每個 HVO 都算一個，而不是兩個。在美國，我們也面臨類似的情況。我們收到了美國環保署關於 2026 年新的可再生能源數量義務的提案。就需求而言，超過 50% 是一個很大的進步。

And on top, actually, we got eventually approved the new LCFS target in California from 13% GIG to 22% starting July 1. This has been delayed compared to initial assumption, but now it's there. So it's going to start to make the difference.

最重要的是，實際上，我們最終批准了加州新的低碳食品目標，從 7 月 1 日起從 GIG 的 13% 提高到 22%。與最初的假設相比，這已經被推遲了，但現在已經實現了。所以它將開始產生影響。

And finally, it's not a detail, we got clarification about the new clean fuel production credit, the so-called 45Z that was full of uncertainty until a few weeks ago and clarification create value. So these are pretty much the main reason, structural reason underlying the market upside and improvement you are seeing right now.

最後，這不是一個細節，我們對新的清潔燃料生產信貸，即所謂的 45Z 得到了澄清，直到幾週前它還充滿不確定性，澄清創造了價值。所以這些幾乎就是您現在看到的市場上漲和改善的主要原因和結構性原因。

What could be the demand uplift from the new proposals in Germany, especially the double counting, the removal?

德國的新提案，尤其是重複計算和取消提案，會引發哪些需求提升？

On Germany, you mean the -- yes, the expectation is to have an uplift around 1.5 million tonnes. That's a rough number. But it's a very significant one. considering that actually we are already seeing an increase of around [0.5 million] this year in Germany and that we are coming from previous year of pretty much no demand. So this is all on top of all the other major trajectory.

關於德國，您的意思是——是的，預計產量將增加約 150 萬噸。這是一個粗略的數字。但它是一個非常重要的因素。考慮到實際上我們已經看到今年德國的新增遊客量約為 [50 萬]，而去年的需求幾乎沒有。所以這一切都是其他主要軌跡之上的。

Martijn Rats, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Martijn Rats。

Yeah. I wanted to follow up briefly on the comments that there is at least depending on, I would imagine the macro and other things, but there sees the potential for the buyback to go up. If I'm not mistaken, on page 3 of the statements, there is guidance that the pro forma leverage ratio will go up back into the 15% to 20% range by the end of the decade from the 0.1 level now.

是的。我想簡要地跟進一下這些評論，至少這取決於宏觀因素和其他因素，但回購有上升的潛力。如果我沒記錯的話，在聲明的第 3 頁上有指導意見，到本世紀末，備考槓桿率將從現在的 0.1 水平回升至 15% 至 20% 的範圍內。

So it does suggest sort of quite a bit of an increase in gearing in the second half of the year, which in of itself does not point in the direction of a lot of room for the buyback to go higher. So I was wondering how you -- how these two things sort of relate to each other?

因此，這確實表明下半年槓桿率將大幅上升，但這本身並不意味著回購還有很大的上升空間。所以我想知道這兩件事之間有什麼關係？

And perhaps sort of -- as part of that question, maybe you can give us a little bit of a refresher on the timing of the various disposal proceeds that are coming in, in the next couple of quarters, maybe this more that falls over the second half of this year. Is there a timing impact there that that leads you to think that -- lead you to suggest that the buyback might go up even though the gearing in the second half itself might still trend higher.

作為這個問題的一部分，也許您可以稍微回顧一下未來幾季內各種處置收益到帳的時間，也許更多的是在今年下半年。這是否存在時間影響，導致您認為——導致您認為回購可能會增加，儘管下半年本身的負債比率可能仍呈上升趨勢。

Thank you, Martin. First of all, you have to consider that a range of 15% to 20% is a wide range, and it was what we presented last -- at the beginning of the year. And this 20% or 15%, 20% means that potentially you could go -- you see towards the lower bar of this range.

謝謝你，馬丁。首先，你必須考慮到 15% 到 20% 是一個很大的範圍，這是我們去年（年初）提出的。這個 20% 或 15%，20% 意味著你可能會看到這個範圍的下限。

Secondly, there is in the scenario, an assumption that certain businesses will be less generative, clearly, because we are assuming eventually in terms of price of oil, 68 consequently to the average for the full year, or certain return that are lower. For example, we are assuming a quite conservative view on margin, downstream margin.

其次，在這個情境中，我們假設某些企業的生產力會降低，顯然，因為我們最終假設石油價格為 68，因此全年的平均回報率會較低，或者某些回報率會較低。例如，我們對利潤率、下游利潤率持相當保守的看法。

We are not probably also take into account some upside that are emerging in biofuel. You have also to consider that in the pro forma logic, the disposal plan is already up -- has already happened in terms of event. But this doesn't mean that it's ended because we have a negotiation and opportunity that could emerge, they're not included within the evaluation or the range.

我們可能還沒有考慮到生物燃料正在出現的一些好處。您還必須考慮到，在形式邏輯中，處置計劃已經出現 - 就事件而言已經發生。但這並不意味著它已經結束，因為我們還有可能出現的談判和機會，它們不包括在評估或範圍內。

So it's a view. It's a conservative process that take into account risk disposals and also a certain scenario, conservative and prudent scenario. So the two sentence about potential buyback uplift and 15%, 20% are fully compatible one with the other.

所以這是一種觀點。這是一個保守的過程，它考慮到風險處置以及某種情況，保守和謹慎的情況。因此，關於潛在回購提升和 15%、20% 的兩句話是完全相容的。

Bertrand Hodee, Kepler.

伯特蘭霍迪，開普勒。

Yes. Hello, I have two small questions. The first one is a clarification on the Argentina LNG, do you intend to take an FID early 2026? Or it was just the closing of the, I would say, agreement with YPF? And then the second question is also related to LNG, but the to Mozambique.

是的。你好，我有兩個小問題。第一個問題是澄清一下阿根廷液化天然氣項目，您是否打算在 2026 年初做出最終投資決定？或者我想說這只是與 YPF 達成的協議？第二個問題也與液化天然氣有關，但與莫三比克有關。

As -- and partners have awarded partial awards to contractors. What we frame E&I at this stage to take a full final investment decision? And what will be the stake of Eni after everything is being closed on Cristian Signoretto.

作為—及其合作夥伴已向承包商授予了部分獎項。我們在此階段製定什麼樣的 E&I 框架來做出完整的最終投資決策？在克里斯蒂安·西格諾雷托 (Cristian Signoretto) 的所有事宜結束後，埃尼的股份將會是多少？

So on Argentina, yes, we are -- the plan is to have an FID by the Q1 of 2026, while the agreement with YPF on how to progress the project will be reached before that, of course. On Mozambique, we have -- as you may have noticed, we've got the government approval, full approval, and we are now in the process to progress and finalize the JV FID.

因此，關於阿根廷，是的，我們計劃在 2026 年第一季之前做出最終投資決定，而與 YPF 就如何推進該項目的協議當然將在此之前達成。關於莫三比克，正如您可能已經注意到的，我們已經獲得了政府的批准，完全批准，目前我們正在推進並最終確定合資企業最終投資決定。

However, we have already secured the long-lead items. We have already secured the yards and all the critical elements to secure the schedule of the project.

然而，我們已經獲得了長週期專案的保障。我們已經確保了船廠和所有關鍵要素，以確保專案按計劃進行。

And your final state?

你的最終狀態是？

Sorry, say it again?

抱歉，請再說一次？

Because on Cristian Signoretto, your participating interest was, if I remember well, 25%. And on Cristian Signoretto --

因為在 Cristian Signoretto 上，如果我沒記錯的話，您的參與權益是 25%。關於克里斯蒂安·西諾雷托--

We have 50% because we -- we have an agreement with the -- with one of the other partner to swap interest between the onshore and offshore projects. And so we have taken a higher stake in the offshore.

我們擁有 50% 的股份，因為我們與另一個合作夥伴達成了協議，可以在陸上和海上項目之間交換權益。因此，我們在離岸業務中佔有更大的份額。

Matt Lofting, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的馬特‧洛夫廷 (Matt Lofting)。

Congratulations on the strong strategic execution through the first half of the year. I think it's been very impressive and important to acknowledge. Two questions. First, the production ramp-up. The guidance implies a strong ramp second half of the year versus first half. If you could just remind us of the, let's say, the key milestones over the next two, three months to derisk their full year target and perhaps where any risks could side as well?

恭喜您上半年強而有力的策略執行。我認為這是非常令人印象深刻且值得承認的。兩個問題。一是擴大生產。該指引暗示，今年下半年的銷售量將比上半年強勁成長。如果您能提醒我們，比如說，未來兩三個月內實現的關鍵里程碑有哪些，以降低全年目標的風險，以及可能出現的風險有哪些？

And then secondly, the cash efficiency or cash initiatives that you highlighted in the press release this morning, increasing from EUR2 billion to EUR3 billion. I mean, it struck me the EUR3 billion quite a significant proportion of CFFO and FCF on an underlying basis. So Wondered if you could just expand there on the main initiatives and how perhaps underlying versus transitory, some of them may be.

其次，您在今天早上的新聞稿中強調的現金效率或現金計劃，從 20 億歐元增加到 30 億歐元。我的意思是，30 億歐元在 CFFO 和 FCF 中佔據了相當大的比例，這讓我印象深刻。所以我想知道您是否可以詳細說明一下主要舉措，以及其中一些舉措可能是潛在的還是暫時的。

On production ramp-up, as you know, this was a very key year for the organic growth. We had five major projects coming, in Norway, in Angola and one in in Italy. And basically, three of them have been delivered. The last two are Johan Castberg and Balder X in Norway. Johan Castberg already reached this plateau production.

就產量提升而言，如您所知，這是實現有機成長的關鍵一年。我們有五個主要項目即將啟動，分別位於挪威、安哥拉和義大利。目前，已交付三艘。最後兩位是挪威的 Johan Castberg 和 Balder X。Johan Castberg 的製作已經達到了這一高峰。

And while Balder is in its ramp-up phase, which will be completed by the end of the year. We have a project in Angola coming very soon. It's an FPSO of 170,000 barrel per day as overall capacity. We have also another project coming towards the end of the year, the NGC. It's a gas project to feed the Angola LNG plant.

目前 Balder 正處於加速階段，預計今年底完成。我們很快就要在安哥拉開展一個專案。這是一艘總產能為每天17 萬桶的FPSO。我們還有另一個項目將於今年年底推出，即 NGC。這是一個為安哥拉液化天然氣工廠供氣的天然氣計畫。

And then we have the second floating LNG on Hong Kong coming by the end of the year. So -- of course, the whole production profile was backloaded. So we will have a pretty strong exit rate, which will set ourselves for a great 2026 also.

我們將於今年底在香港推出第二艘浮動液化天然氣船。所以——當然，整個生產概況都被推遲了。因此，我們的退出率將相當高，這也將為我們 2026 年的輝煌奠定基礎。

About the cash initiative. Clearly, these are mainly related to working capital management, some cost efficiency, so nothing to do with the cash flow from operation or marginal impact in the cash flow from operation. Everything else is related to other lines of the cash.

關於現金計劃。顯然，這些主要與營運資本管理、一些成本效率有關，因此與經營現金流或經營現金流的邊際影響無關。其他一切都與現金的其他線路有關。

Massimo Bonisoli, Equita.

馬西莫·博尼索利，Equita。

I have just one question. Last on Libya. If you can provide an update on the status of your Libya gas project, specifically the structures A&E. And what is the expected timing of first gas, please.

我只有一個問題。最後談談利比亞。如果您能提供有關利比亞天然氣專案的最新情況，特別是結構 A&E。請問第一次供氣的預計時間是？

On Libya, actually, we have more than one project ongoing. We have -- we have three projects, one which is monetization of some gas in the -- in one of our Mediterranean platform, which is -- will come on stream by Q3 of next year.

關於利比亞，實際上我們正在進行多個專案。我們有三個項目，其中一個是將地中海平台的部分天然氣貨幣化，將於明年第三季投入使用。

Then we have a compression project to expand the plateau of one of our offshore platform, which is forthcoming by the end of the year would have to maintain the plateau. And we have the A&E structure where we are executing the main contract, and the first production is expected by the end of 2027, the first production.

然後我們有一個壓縮項目來擴大我們的一個海上平台的高原，即將在今年年底前完成，以維護高原。我們擁有 A&E 結構，我們正在其中執行主要合同，預計第一批產品將於 2027 年底生產。

Paul Redman, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的保羅‧雷德曼。

I've got two relatively brief ones, I think. The first one is just on the CFFO guidance upgrade. If I run the sensitivities and have a little bit more on for GGP uplift, I'm just trying to work out why the increase in CFFO from last quarter, i.e., the guidance for the year, is not as much as the sensitivities would suggest. And secondly, when we talk about these working capital initiatives for 2025, Johan Castberg as one-offs. They can't be replicated in 2026. Is that how I should think about it?

我認為我有兩個相對簡短的。第一個是關於 CFFO 指導升級。如果我計算敏感度並對 GGP 提升有更多關注，我只是想弄清楚為什麼上一季 CFFO 的成長（即年度指導）並不像敏感度所暗示的那麼多。其次，當我們談論 2025 年的這些營運資金計畫時，Johan Castberg 認為這些計畫都是一次性的。它們在 2026 年是無法複製的。我該這樣想嗎？

Yes. About the cash flow from operation increase. This is related to the fact that substantially, you have to take into account that the scenario is not just so scenario is biofuel is power, margin is chemical, is a lot of stuff. And therefore, these are clearly not completely reflected in the bench you provide them and the simple calculation of three metrics.

是的。關於經營活動現金流量增加。這與以下事實有關：本質上，你必須考慮到情況不僅僅是生物燃料是動力，利潤是化學物質，還有很多東西。因此，這些顯然沒有完全反映在您為他們提供的基準和三個指標的簡單計算中。

So there is an uplift on the scenario on valuation in performance versus the scenario, and this is what is happening, taking into account of all the variable and not just the three that you are referring to.

因此，相對於實際情況，業績估值情境有所提升，這是正在發生的情況，考慮到所有變量，而不僅僅是您所指的三個變量。

About the cash initiative, we had to consider cash initiative are improvement in a way you manage your cycle of payment. And therefore, the time you apply this on the first step, is a step up. And then you continue to roll over this initiative in all the remaining year and the following year. So this is a way to change the way you manage your cycle of payment and your cycle of storage.

關於現金計劃，我們必須考慮現金計劃如何改善您的付款週期管理方式。因此，當您在第一步應用它時，就是一個進步。然後，您將在接下來的一年和接下來的一年中繼續推行這項計劃。這是一種改變您管理付款週期和儲存週期的方式。

Matt Smith, Bank of America for the final question.

最後一個問題由美國銀行的馬特史密斯提出。

Just one left from me, which I don't think we've covered coming on to GGP gas trade and another strong quarter, once again for Eni, just has been an interesting quarter for trading performance across the space at some point to good results, some less good and usually talking about too much volatility for the traders in some sense.

我只剩下一個了，我認為我們還沒有談到 GGP 天然氣交易，對於埃尼來說，又是一個強勁的季度，這是一個有趣的季度，整個領域的交易表現在某些時候很好，有些則不太好，通常是在談論交易員在某種意義上波動太大。

So I just wanted to pick up obviously, how you saw the opportunities in the quarter, clearly played out quite well, but how you see the rest of the year in the current conditions? How conducive is it for that business to keep outperforming, please?

所以我只是想問一下，您如何看待本季度的機遇，顯然這些機會發揮得相當不錯，但在當前情況下，您如何看待今年剩餘時間的機會？請問這對於該業務保持優異表現有何幫助？

Well, thanks for the question. In terms of performance this quarter has been marked by two elements. One is the one-off settlement that we discussed before.

嗯，謝謝你的提問。從業績來看，本季有兩個特點。一是我們之前討論過的一次性解決。

And the second one also was the fact that the volatility, as you said, has been somehow less than first quarter 2025, but still in a good shape, especially, I would say, on the LNG global scenario because of the volatility between JKM and TTF and oil. So that allowed us to take advantage of few arbitrage opportunities globally, and that set up that result for this quarter.

第二點也是事實，正如你所說，波動性在某種程度上低於 2025 年第一季度，但仍處於良好狀態，尤其是對於全球液化天然氣市場而言，因為 JKM 和 TTF 與石油之間的波動性。因此，我們能夠利用全球範圍內的少數套利機會，並為本季的業績奠定基礎。

Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Christian. That wraps us up for the second quarter call. Thank you to everybody for attending. Any follow-ups then myself and the team are available for your questions.

謝謝你，馬特。謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。第二季的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的出席。我和我的團隊隨時準備好回答您的任何後續問題。

And if we don't speak, have a great summer, and we'll see you again in the autumn. Goodbye.

如果我們沒有說話，祝你有個愉快的夏天，我們秋天再見。再見。