HF Sinclair Corp (DINO) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to HF Sinclair Corporation's first-quarter 2025 conference call and webcast. Hosting the call today is Tim Go, Chief Executive Officer of HF Sinclair. He is joined by Atanas Atanasov, Chief Financial Officer; Steve Ledbetter, EVP of Commercial; Valerie Pompa, EVP of Operations; and Matt Joyce, SVP of Lubricants & Specialties. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded.

歡迎參加 HF Sinclair Corporation 2025 年第一季電話會議和網路廣播。HF Sinclair 執行長 Tim Go 主持今天的電話會議。與他一同出席的還有財務長 Atanas Atanasov、商務執行副總裁 Steve Ledbetter、營運執行副總裁 Valerie Pompa 以及潤滑油和特種產品高級副總裁 Matt Joyce。（操作員指示）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Craig Biery, Vice President, Investor Relations. Craig, you may begin.

現在我很高興將發言權交給投資人關係副總裁 Craig Biery。克雷格，你可以開始了。

Thank you, Kate. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to HF Sinclair Corporation's first-quarter 2025 earnings call. This morning, we issued a press release announcing results for the quarter ending March 31, 2025. If you would like a copy of the earnings press release, you may find it on our website at hfsinclair.com.

謝謝你，凱特。大家早安，歡迎參加 HF Sinclair Corporation 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天上午，我們發布了一份新聞稿，宣布了截至 2025 年 3 月 31 日的季度業績。如果您想要一份收益新聞稿的副本，您可以在我們的網站 hfsinclair.com 上找到。

Before we proceed with remarks, please note the Safe Harbor disclosure statement in today's press release. In summary, it says statements made regarding management expectations, judgments, or predictions are forward-looking statements.

在我們繼續發表評論之前，請注意今天新聞稿中的安全港披露聲明。總之，它說關於管理階層期望、判斷或預測的陳述都是前瞻性的陳述。

These statements are intended to be covered under the Safe Harbor provisions of federal security laws. There are many factors that could cause results to differ from expectations, including those noted in our SEC filings.

這些聲明旨在受到聯邦安全法的安全港條款的保護。有許多因素可能導致結果與預期不同，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中提到的因素。

The call also may include discussion of non-GAAP measures. Please see the earnings press release for reconciliations to GAAP financial measures. Also, please note any time sensitive information provided on today's call may no longer be accurate at the time of any webcast replay or re-reading of the transcript.

電話會議也可能包括對非公認會計準則措施的討論。請參閱收益新聞稿以了解與 GAAP 財務指標的對帳情況。此外，請注意，今天電話會議中提供的任何時間敏感資訊在任何網路直播重播或重新閱讀記錄時可能不再準確。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Tim.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給提姆。

Good morning, everyone. For the first quarter, we delivered strong results in our Marketing, Midstream and Lubricants & Specialties businesses, and saw encouraging sequential improvement in Refining.

大家早安。第一季度，我們的行銷、中游和潤滑油及特種業務取得了強勁業績，煉油業務也取得了令人鼓舞的環比成長。

I am proud of our employees and their ability to navigate the extreme volatility and uncertainty around tariffs, producers tax credits, and other market headwinds. We remain focused on the things in our control, such as commercial and operational excellence, turnaround execution, and capital discipline.

我為我們的員工以及他們應對關稅、生產者稅收抵免和其他市場逆風的極端波動和不確定性的能力感到自豪。我們仍然專注於我們能夠控制的事情，例如卓越的商業和營運、扭虧為盈的執行和資本紀律。

Now let me cover our segment highlights. In Refining, for the first quarter, we delivered sequential quarter improvements in capture and operating expenses, despite a tough economic environment across the period. We began the planned turnaround work at our Tulsa turnaround at our Tulsa refinery, which was completed on schedule and on budget and is now operating at planned rates.

現在讓我來介紹一下我們的部分亮點。在煉油業務方面，第一季度，儘管整個期間的經濟環境十分艱難，但我們在捕集和營運費用方面仍實現了環比成長。我們在塔爾薩煉油廠的塔爾薩檢修點開始了計劃中的檢修工作，該工作已按計劃和預算完成，目前正在按計劃速度運行。

In Renewables, for the first quarter, we focused on lowering total operating expenses and optimizing low CI feedstocks to help mitigate the economic impact surrounding the uncertainty of the producer's tax credit.

在再生能源領域，第一季度，我們專注於降低總營運費用和優化低 CI 原料，以幫助減輕生產商稅收抵免不確定性帶來的經濟影響。

At this time, we have not taken any credit for PTC in our financials. We estimate that we would have been close to breakeven EBITDA after the quarter with the inclusion of PTC. Our Marketing segment delivered a record quarter of $27 million in EBITDA and achieved our highest quarterly adjusted gross margin of $0.12 per gallon.

目前，我們還沒有在財務上承認 PTC 的任何功勞。我們估計，如果納入 PTC，本季之後我們的 EBITDA 將接近盈虧平衡。我們的行銷部門本季的 EBITDA 達到創紀錄的 2,700 萬美元，並實現了最高的季度調整後毛利率，即每加侖 0.12 美元。

We also grew our branded supplied stores by a net of 37 sites and have a backlog of over 170 additional supplied branded sites signed and targeted to bring online by year end.

我們的品牌供應商店淨增 37 家，並已簽約超過 170 家額外的品牌供應站點，計劃在年底前上線。

In Lubricants & Specialties, we reported another strong quarter of $85 million in EBITDA supported by our product mix, optimization efforts, focused on sales of high margin specialty and finished products. We are in the process of completing the planned turnaround work at our Mississauga facility and expect to be back to planned operations within the week.

在潤滑油和特種產品方面，我們報告了另一個強勁的季度，EBITDA 達到 8500 萬美元，這得益於我們的產品組合、優化工作以及對高利潤特種產品和成品銷售的關注。我們正在完成密西沙加工廠的計畫週轉工作，預計將在一周內恢復計畫運作。

In our Midstream business, we delivered a record quarter generating $119 million in adjusted EBITDA as we benefited from higher pipeline revenues in the period. Today, we announced our Board of Directors declared a regular quarterly dividend of $0.50 per share, payable on June 3, 2025, the holders of record on May 15, 2025.

在我們的中游業務中，我們實現了創紀錄的季度業績，得益於本季管道收入的增加，調整後的 EBITDA 達到 1.19 億美元。今天，我們宣布董事會宣布派發每股 0.50 美元的定期季度股息，將於 2025 年 6 月 3 日支付，股東登記日期為 2025 年 5 月 15 日。

Looking forward, we are encouraged by the recent strength of refining margins as we head into the summer driving season and are focused on the execution of our strategic priorities to capture value across all of our business segments.

展望未來，隨著夏季駕駛季節的臨近，我們對近期煉油利潤率的強勁增長感到鼓舞，並專注於執行我們的戰略重點，以在所有業務部門中獲取價值。

With that, let me turn the call over to Atanas.

說完這些，讓我把電話轉給阿塔納斯。

Thank you, Tim, and good morning, everyone. Let's begin by reviewing HF Sinclair's financial highlights. Today, we reported first-quarter net loss attributable to HF Sinclair shareholders of $4 million or negative $0.02 per diluted share. These results reflect special items that collectively decrease net loss by $46 million.

謝謝你，提姆，大家早安。讓我們先回顧一下 HF Sinclair 的財務亮點。今天，我們報告第一季歸屬於 HF Sinclair 股東的淨虧損為 400 萬美元，即每股攤薄虧損 0.02 美元。這些結果反映了特殊項目，它們總共減少了 4,600 萬美元的淨虧損。

Excluding these items, adjusted net loss for the first quarter was $50 million or negative $0.27 for diluted share compared to adjusted net income of $142 million or $0.71 for diluted share for the same period in 2024.

不包括這些項目，第一季調整後淨虧損為 5,000 萬美元，即稀釋後每股虧損 0.27 美元，而 2024 年同期調整後淨收入為 1.42 億美元，即稀釋後每股虧損 0.71 美元。

Adjusted EBITDA for the first quarter was $201 million compared to $399 million in the first quarter of 2024. In our Refining segments, first-quarter adjusted to EBITDA was negative $8 million compared to $209 million in the first quarter of 2024. This decrease was principally driven by lower adjusted refinery gross margins in both the West and Mid-Con regions and lower refined products sales volumes.

第一季調整後 EBITDA 為 2.01 億美元，而 2024 年第一季為 3.99 億美元。在我們的煉油部門，第一季調整後的 EBITDA 為負 800 萬美元，而 2024 年第一季為 2.09 億美元。下降的主要原因是西部和中部地區煉油廠調整後毛利率下降以及成品油銷量下降。

Crude oil charged averaged 606,000 barrels per day for the first quarter compared to 605,000 barrels per day for the first quarter of 2024. In our Renewables segment, we reported adjusted EBITDA of negative $17 million for the first quarter compared to negative $18 million for the first quarter of 2024.

第一季原油平均消耗量為每天 606,000 桶，而 2024 年第一季為每天 605,000 桶。在我們的再生能源部門，我們報告第一季的調整後 EBITDA 為負 1700 萬美元，而 2024 年第一季的調整後 EBITDA 為負 1800 萬美元。

Our first-quarter 2025 results were impacted by lower sales volumes and the absence of benefits from the producer's tax credit. Total sales volumes were 44 million gallons for the first quarter of 2025 compared to 61 million gallons for the first quarter of 2024.

我們的 2025 年第一季業績受到銷售量下降和缺乏生產者稅收抵免優惠的影響。2025 年第一季的總銷售量為 4,400 萬加侖，而 2024 年第一季的總銷售量為 6,100 萬加侖。

Our Marketing segment reported EBITDA $27 million for the first quarter compared to $15 million for the first quarter of 2024. This increase was primarily driven by improved execution of our business and high grading the portfolio in the first quarter of 2025.

我們的行銷部門報告第一季的 EBITDA 為 2700 萬美元，而 2024 年第一季的 EBITDA 為 1500 萬美元。這一成長主要得益於我們業務執行的改善以及 2025 年第一季投資組合的高評級。

Our Lubricants & Specialties segment reported EBITDA of $85 million for the first quarter compared to EBITDA of $87 million for the first quarter of 2024. Our Midstream segment reported adjusted EBITDA of $119 million in the first quarter compared to $110 million in the first quarter of last year.

我們的潤滑油和特種產品部門報告第一季的 EBITDA 為 8,500 萬美元，而 2024 年第一季的 EBITDA 為 8,700 萬美元。我們的中游部門報告第一季調整後 EBITDA 為 1.19 億美元，而去年第一季為 1.1 億美元。

This increase was primarily driven by higher pipeline revenues in the first quarter of 2025. Net cash used for operations totaled $89 million in the first quarter, which included $105 million of turnaround spent. HF Sinclair's capital expenditure totaled $86 million for the first quarter of 2025.

這一增長主要得益於 2025 年第一季管道收入的增加。第一季營運所用淨現金總計 8,900 萬美元，其中包括 1.05 億美元的周轉支出。HF Sinclair 2025 年第一季的資本支出總計 8,600 萬美元。

As of March 31, 2025, HF Sinclair's cash balance was $547 million. As of March 31, we have $2.7 billion of debt outstanding with a debt to cap ratio of 23% and net debt to cap ratio of 18%. During the quarter, we executed a successful refinancing transaction.

截至 2025 年 3 月 31 日，HF Sinclair 的現金餘額為 5.47 億美元。截至 3 月 31 日，我們的未償負債為 27 億美元，負債與資本比率為 23%，淨負債與資本比率為 18%。本季度，我們成功完成了再融資交易。

HF Sinclair issued an aggregate principal amount of $1.4 billion of senior notes consisting of $650 million of 5.75% senior notes due 2031, and $750 million of 6.25% senior notes due 2035.

HF Sinclair 發行了總本金為 14 億美元的優先票據，其中包括 6.5 億美元、2031 年到期的 5.75% 優先票據，以及 7.5 億美元、2035 年到期的 6.25% 優先票據。

We use net proceeds from the notes to repay all $350 million in outstanding borrowings under the HEP credit facility and to fund approximately $850 million in tenders and redemptions of our 2026 senior notes and $150 million in tenders of our 2027 senior notes. This extended our debt maturity profile while lowering our weighted average interest expense.

我們利用票據淨收益償還 HEP 信貸安排下所有 3.5 億美元的未償還借款，並為我們的 2026 年優先票據的投標和贖回提供約 8.5 億美元的資金，以及為我們的 2027 年優先票據的投標提供 1.5 億美元的資金。這延長了我們的債務期限，同時降低了我們的加權平均利息支出。

On April 3, 2025, we entered into a new $2 billion HF Sinclair credit facility and terminated the existing HF Sinclair HEP credit facilities. As of April 30, 2025, our new five-year credit facility was undrawn.

2025 年 4 月 3 日，我們簽訂了新的 20 億美元 HF Sinclair 信貸協議，並終止了現有的 HF Sinclair HEP 信貸協議。截至 2025 年 4 月 30 日，我們的新五年期信貸額度尚未提取。

Let's go through some guidance items. With respect to capital spending for full year 2025, we still expect to spend approximately $775 million in sustaining capital, including turnaround and catalysts. This is down $25 million from 2024 and includes a non-refining lubricants and specialties turnaround in the first quarter of 2025 -- in the first half of 2025.

讓我們來看看一些指導事項。對於 2025 年全年的資本支出，我們仍預計將花費約 7.75 億美元的維持資本，包括轉虧為盈和催化劑。這比 2024 年減少了 2,500 萬美元，其中包括 2025 年第一季（2025 年上半年）非煉油潤滑油和特種產品扭虧為盈。

In addition, we expect to spend $100 million in growth capital investments across our business segments. For the second quarter of 2025, we expect to run between 600,000 and 630,000 barrels per day of crude oil in our Refining segment, which reflects the ongoing plan turnaround at our Tulsa refinery and the plan turnaround at our Puget refinery during the period.

此外，我們預計將在各個業務部門投入 1 億美元用於成長資本投資。2025 年第二季度，我們預計煉油廠的原油日產量將在 60 萬至 63 萬桶之間，這反映了我們塔爾薩煉油廠和普吉特煉油廠在此期間的計畫週轉。

We're now ready to take some questions from the audience, and I'll turn it over to the operator.

我們現在準備回答觀眾的一些問題，我將把問題交給接線員。

(Operator Instructions) Manav Gupta, UBS.

（操作員指示）Manav Gupta，瑞銀。

Good morning, guys. Very strong result considering the macro. I actually just wanted to start on the Midstream side. I think you moved some assets from the Midstream HEP into Refining, and yet what we are seeing is like probably one of the strongest Midstream quarters that you have delivered, close to almost $120 million in EBITDA. So help us understand what's driving the growth in the Midstream business and your outlook for continue to grow this business as we move ahead.

大家早安。從宏觀角度來看，結果非常強勁。我實際上只是想從中游方面開始。我認為您將一些資產從中游 HEP 轉移到了煉油業務，但我們所看到的可能是您所交付的最強勁的中游季度之一，EBITDA 接近 1.2 億美元。因此，請協助我們了解推動中游業務成長的因素，以及您對我們未來繼續發展該業務的展望。

Hey, Manav, This is Steve. We're very excited about the Midstream business, and we think that it's really not fully optimized yet. What drove the performance in Q1 was predominantly increased and focused on our products and crude pipelines and the revenue generation from our tariff situation there.

嘿，Manav，我是史蒂夫。我們對中游業務感到非常興奮，我們認為它還沒有完全優化。推動第一季業績成長的主要因素是我們的產品和原油管道以及來自那裡的關稅情況的收入。

We believe that this is both an opportunity to grow the integrated value as well as a third-party situation. So it's a focus area, and helps us, what we like to say, unlock the integrated value chain between Refining, Midstream, and Marketing moving forward.

我們相信這既是增加綜合價值的機會，也是第三方的情況。因此，這是一個重點領域，它可以幫助我們解鎖煉油、中游和行銷之間的綜合價值鏈。

And Manav, this is Tim. I would just chime in and say, we've said all along that we believed that bringing in the HEP business completely into our portfolio was the right thing to do. It was going to break down some internal hurdles and allow us to optimize the business. And as Steve and his team are doing, they're finding those opportunities, and that's showing up in the bottom line.

馬納夫，這是提姆。我只是想插話說，我們一直說，我們相信將 HEP 業務完全納入我們的投資組合是正確的做法。它將打破一些內部障礙並使我們能夠優化業務。正如史蒂夫和他的團隊所做的那樣，他們正在尋找這些機會，而這些機會正在底線中反映出來。

Perfect. My quick follow up here is Lubes also very resilient. Help us understand the volatility in this business. Looks like its earnings are a lot more stable than the Refining. So in the near term, given what we're seeing in the macro, your confidence level of earnings in your Lubes business. And again, I think you had identified and said, we're looking to grow this business also so if you could help us understand that also.

完美的。我在這裡快速跟進的是潤滑油也非常有彈性。幫助我們了解這個產業的波動性。看起來它的收益比煉油穩定得多。因此，從短期來看，根據我們所看到的宏觀情況，您對潤滑油業務的利潤有信心。再說一次，我想您已經明確表示過，我們也希望發展這項業務，所以如果您能幫助我們理解這一點的話。

Hey, it's Matt Joyce here. Manav, we've talked about it in the past several earnings calls. We continue to execute our strategy really well. We're doubling down on our growth in the US. We have selected end uses that we believe have higher growth rates businesses that tend to depend on us and where we have great solutions that can win.

嘿，我是馬特喬伊斯。Manav，我們在過去的幾次財報電話會議上討論過這個問題。我們繼續很好地執行我們的戰略。我們正在加倍努力實現在美國的成長。我們選擇的最終用途是那些我們認為成長率較高的企業，這些企業往往依賴我們，而且我們擁有能夠取得成功的出色解決方案。

We're outperforming the markets in mining, good-grade lubricants, thermal management, pharmaceutical and personal care, just to kind of give you a sense of those high-value markets. Those have the ability to weather a lot of these storms and to be continuous and consistent performing markets, and we'll go through those to be a steady performance on the Lubes side.

我們在採礦、優質潤滑油、熱管理、製藥和個人護理等領域的表現優於市場，這只是讓您對這些高價值市場有所了解。這些有能力抵禦許多風暴並保持市場持續穩定的表現，我們將透過這些來確保潤滑油方面表現穩定。

We also enjoyed a really good mix of products this past quarter. We had a little bit lower base oil sales. So you saw that forward integration strategy that we've talked about getting more of our base oils placed and finished in specialty applications, you're seeing that pay dividends here in these results.

上個季度，我們也享受了非常好的產品組合。我們的基礎油銷量略有下降。因此，您會看到，我們所討論的前向整合策略，即讓更多的基礎油應用於專業應用領域，並從中獲益。

Yeah. As far as, Manav, your second question around bolt-on opportunities, I mean, what we're looking for, obviously, what Matt has talked about is our primary focus on organic growth. But clearly, there are some opportunities that are out there that would allow us to continue or accelerate that growth strategy.

是的。至於 Manav，您的第二個問題是關於附加機會，我的意思是，我們正在尋找什麼，顯然，Matt 談到的是我們對有機成長的主要關注點。但顯然，我們仍存在一些機會，可以讓我們繼續或加速這個成長策略。

Nothing large, but it's small that would fit nicely within our portfolio, and we're continuing to look at those. There's obviously nothing to talk about today.

雖然規模不大，但規模很小，可以很好地融入我們的投資組合，我們正在繼續關注這些項目。顯然今天沒有什麼好談的。

Ryan Todd, Piper Sandler.

瑞恩·托德、派珀·桑德勒。

Great. Thanks. Maybe on the Refining side, can you talk about what you're seeing in terms of demand across your markets? Product sales were down across your network, I think year on year. I'm just curious, is that a reflection of demand or something else and maybe more broadly, what are you seeing across your markets?

偉大的。謝謝。也許在煉油方面，您能談談您所看到的整個市場的需求嗎？我認為你們網路的產品銷量較去年同期下降。我只是好奇，這是需求的反映還是其他？更廣泛地說，您在各個市場看到了什麼？

Yeah. Ryan, this is Steve. Just across our markets we're seeing demand relatively flat. We like to say for gas and just what we saw in the first quarter was positive. The impact on our sales was mainly driven by turnaround aspects.

是的。瑞安，這是史蒂夫。在我們的整個市場中，我們看到需求相對穩定。我們喜歡說天然氣，而且我們在第一季看到的情況是正面的。對我們銷售的影響主要來自於週轉方面。

Those late demand being up, we think is generated predominantly by a colder winter in PADD 1 as well as reduced RD and BD product associated with the new 45 regulation that drove about 100,000 barrels a day off the market, which was supplemented by petroleum demand. So we're pretty excited about the demand patterns and what we're seeing and how it's showing up in the cracks moving into the driving season and particularly across our regions.

我們認為，後期需求上升主要是由於 PADD 1 地區冬季氣候較冷，以及新 45 條法規導致 RD 和 BD 產品減少，導致市場每天減少約 10 萬桶石油，而石油需求則補充了這一需求。因此，我們對需求模式以及我們所看到的情況以及它在駕駛季節（特別是在我們各個地區）中的表現感到非常興奮。

And then maybe on the renewable diesel side. Can you walk through -- I know the first quarter was a very noisy quarter with the kind of the shift in regulatory regime. Can you walk through the impacts -- how that impacted your business?

然後也許是在再生柴油方面。您能否介紹一下—我知道第一季由於監管制度的變化而變得非常動盪。您能否詳細說明一下這些影響——這對您的業務有何影響？

How are you managing fee stock optimization? Whether you were able to book any credits during the first quarter, and if you think you'll be able to book any during the second quarter or maybe any possible tailwind as we look forward here.

您如何管理費用庫存優化？您是否能夠在第一季預訂任何積分，以及您是否認為能夠在第二季度預訂任何積分，或者我們預期的任何可能的順風。

Yeah. So we did not recognize any tax credit for PTC in the first quarter, just given the uncertainty of the regulation -- there was changing regulations throughout the quarter, and that caused us to run very carefully and run at reduced rates.

是的。因此，我們在第一季沒有確認任何 PTC 稅收抵免，只是考慮到法規的不確定性——整個季度法規都在變化，這導致我們非常謹慎地運行並以降低的稅率運行。

Had we been able to recognize any of the tax credit under the current proposed regulations, we would have been close to breakeven for EBITDA from our operations within the quarter. We think at the very least, something's going to have to give here in terms of RVO and RIN credits to go, dislocate more than the traditional BOHO spread. You're starting to see some of that support.

如果我們能夠根據目前擬議的規定確認任何稅收抵免，那麼我們在本季的營運中 EBITDA 將接近收支平衡。我們認為，至少在 RVO 和 RIN 信用方面必須做出一些讓步，這比傳統的 BOHO 利差更加混亂。您開始看到一些這樣的支援。

Clarity is really going to help, but I was very proud of the team to be able to navigate the uncertainty and get to EBITDA breakeven if we had recognized PTC. Longer term, we think some of this regulation is actually good for an overall tighter supply and demand balance, and we position ourselves to go capture that tailwind through the efforts that we've made over the past 9 to 12 months.

清晰度確實會有所幫助，但如果我們認可 PTC，我對團隊能夠克服不確定性並實現 EBITDA 收支平衡感到非常自豪。從長遠來看，我們認為其中一些監管措施實際上有利於實現整體供需平衡，並且我們將透過過去 9 到 12 個月的努力來抓住這一順風。

Yeah. And Ryan, this is Tim. What I would just say is, all along we've said that our goal is to have our renewable diesel business be breakeven to slightly positive at these bottom of market conditions.

是的。瑞安，這是提姆。我只想說，我們一直在說，我們的目標是讓我們的再生柴油業務在市場狀況最低潮時實現收支平衡或略微盈利。

And with the PTC coming on at a reduced credit rate than the PTC was previously, I think the team has stepped up very nicely to continue to improve the foundation of the business to where they are -- as we mentioned on the prepared remarks, still running at a basically breakeven pace even with the lower PTC credits that will, hopefully, eventually, be able to book in the future.

而且由於 PTC 的信用利率低於之前的 PTC，我認為團隊已經取得了非常好的進展，繼續改善業務基礎，正如我們在準備好的評論中提到的那樣，即使 PTC 信用較低，仍然能夠以基本收支平衡的速度運行，希望最終能夠在未來進行預訂。

Doug Leggate, Wolfe Research.

道格‧萊格特（Doug Leggate），沃爾夫研究公司。

Yeah. Good morning, team. This is actually Carlos on for Doug. I think that we as a team think that it's valid to recognize first of all that it was a very solid operational quarter in an extremely tough cake. But that being said, we'd like to take the prior question a step further and ask you guys at what point do you consider mothballing R&D facilities versus running the risk of negative cash and also acknowledging that the outlook for RINs is unclear.

是的。早安，各位團隊。這實際上是卡洛斯 (Carlos) 代替道格 (Doug)。我認為，作為一個團隊，我們首先應該認識到，在極其艱難的情況下，這是一個非常穩健的營運季度。但話雖如此，我們想進一步回答前面的問題，問問你們何時考慮封存研發設施，而不是冒著負現金的風險，同時也承認 RIN 的前景不明朗。

Yeah. It's a good question. We ask ourselves that and all the time and have our conversations at the boardroom as well on those kinds of questions. We believe we have competitive advantage over the majority of the industry, and you see some of that happening even during this first quarter.

是的。這是個好問題。我們一直在問自己這個問題，並且在董事會會議室裡也討論這些問題。我們相信，我們比行業中的大多數公司都具有競爭優勢，而且在第一季你就會看到這種優勢正在顯現。

A lot of biodiesel plants have shut down, even some renewable diesel plants have shut down just as you mentioned. So as long as we -- the reason we keep talking about we can be breakeven slightly positive in these bottom of cycle conditions is we believe that as long as we can do that -- and we'll manage the cash as a result of that, but as long as we can do that on a day in and day out basis that we believe we can continue to improve the business and be ready for when the RIN prices and LCFS prices recover and come back to what we believe is more of a long-term level. So we think right now we're bottom cycle conditions, but the conditions will improve, and our businesses will be profitable at that point.

許多生物柴油工廠已經關閉，甚至一些再生柴油工廠也像您提到的那樣關閉了。因此，只要我們 - 我們一直在談論的原因是我們可以在周期底部條件下實現略微正向的收支平衡，我們相信只要我們能夠做到這一點 - 我們就會因此管理現金，但只要我們能夠日復一日地做到這一點，我們相信我們可以繼續改善業務並為 RIN 價格和 LCFS 價格復甦做好準備，並回到我們認為的更長期的水平。因此，我們認為目前我們處於週期底部，但情況將會改善，到那時我們的業務將會獲利。

Appreciate the answer, Tim. As a follow up, we'd like to ask about LPG and your overall midstream business because I think we've all grown accustomed to have an experienced volatility on the oil and refining market as a whole, but LPG has been a certainly a topic of the debate lately with the ongoing talks with [tariff].

感謝您的回答，蒂姆。作為後續問題，我們想問液化石油氣和你們的整體中游業務，因為我認為我們都已經習慣了整個石油和煉油市場的波動，但液化石油氣無疑是最近爭論的話題，因為正在進行的談判[關稅]。

So, wondering if you can perhaps walk us through -- if there's any potential opportunity for you, given the dislocation in the market and the uncertainty around that or if you think that there's anything noteworthy for investors to know regarding that specific segment.

所以，我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹一下——考慮到市場混亂和不確定性，您是否有任何潛在的機會，或者您是否認為對於該特定領域，投資者有什麼值得了解的事情。

Yeah. This is Steve. I'll take that one. We don't have a concentration in our Midstream space around LPG. It's not just part of our core business. We don't know that that's an area we go invest in over integrating and more concentration of getting crude and light products molecules on our system and taking full advantage of that.

是的。這是史蒂夫。我要那個。我們的中游領域並沒有集中在液化石油氣。這不僅僅是我們核心業務的一部分。我們不知道我們是否應該投資於過度整合和更加集中在我們的系統上獲取原油和輕質產品分子並充分利用這一點。

Having said that, we always look at multiple opportunities, and if there was something that was very accretive to the enterprise, we would put it in our funnel and evaluate it at that time. But at this point we don't have a lot of exposure and are not using that as one of our growth platforms in the midstream space associated with LPGs.

話雖如此，我們總是會考慮多種機會，如果有對企業非常有利的事情，我們就會將其放入我們的漏斗中並在當時進行評估。但目前我們還沒有太多的曝光度，也沒有將其作為與液化石油氣相關的中游領域的成長平台之一。

Joe Laetsch, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的喬·萊奇（Joe Laetsch）。

Hey. Good morning, Tim and team. Thanks for taking my questions. So I want to start on refining. We've had a couple strong weekly demand numbers for gasoline and inventories are pretty tight, particularly on the West Coast.

嘿。早安，提姆和團隊。感謝您回答我的問題。所以我想開始精煉。我們每週的汽油需求量都很強勁，庫存也相當緊張，尤其是在西海岸。

I know you've talked about the project that expands your ability to make gasoline carb at Puget Sound. Is that online? And then could you also just talk to your leverage to the West Coast market, given the unplanned downtime recently, as well as the announced closure of two refineries upcoming?

我知道您已經談到了擴大在普吉特海灣生產汽油化油器能力的專案。那是在線的嗎？那麼，考慮到最近的計劃外停機以及即將關閉的兩家煉油廠，您能否談談您對西海岸市場的影響力？

Hey, Joe, I'll take that. I'm Steve. I'll answer the question in the order. I think they were asked and that was the project that we had mentioned around our ability to potentially get more involved in the carb gas project. Those tanks will be coming online soon.

嘿，喬，我接受。我是史蒂夫。我會按順序回答這個問題。我想他們被問到了，這就是我們提到的關於我們可能更多參與碳水化合物氣體項目的能力的項目。這些坦克很快就會投入使用。

Now we will be staging them over the next couple of months to be able to make a decision whether we move unfinished products into the carb California market, or we swell the volume pool and move gasoline there.

現在，我們將在接下來的幾個月內進行分階段實施，以便能夠決定是否將未完成的產品轉移到加州的化油器市場，或擴大產量並將汽油轉移到那裡。

But we're almost at the point where we'll have those ready for use in our portfolio and given the headwinds that we see with the recent announcements as well as current unplanned events, we think that is a benefit not only to getting into California but also tightening up the market in the Pacific Northwest relative to the overall PADD 5 tightness. We took advantage this quarter of moving more molecules and playing the arb between what was getting short and stronger demand and margin picture in Las Vegas.

但我們幾乎已經準備好將這些資產納入我們的投資組合，考慮到我們在最近的公告和當前的意外事件中看到的阻力，我們認為這不僅有利於進入加利福尼亞州，而且相對於整體 PADD 5 緊張局勢，太平洋西北地區的市場也會收緊。我們利用本季的優勢，轉移更多分子，並在拉斯維加斯的短缺和更強勁的需求與利潤前景之間進行套利。

And we think that that is part of the advantage of our footprint both in the midstream and our production throughout the Rockies. We like to say we can move barrels out of the group into the into the front range and from the Rockies all the way up to the Pacific Northwest and down into Southern PADD 5. We think that all bodes well for us moving forward, not only this year but as it continues to play out over the next two years with the announced shuttering of various facilities.

我們認為這是我們在中游的足跡以及在整個落基山脈的生產的優勢的一部分。我們喜歡說，我們可以將桶子從群中移到前山脈，從落基山脈一直移到太平洋西北部，再移到南部 PADD 5。我們認為，這一切對我們未來的發展都是好的預兆，不僅是今年，而且隨著未來兩年各種設施宣布關閉，這種情況還會繼續發生。

Yeah. And Joe, this is Tim. I would just point out that the West Coast wasn't the only region that we saw strength in demand. I mean, the Mid-Con, the group itself was strong. We entered the first quarter at pretty much highs on inventories, and we exited the first quarter at pretty much lows in the group.

是的。喬，這是提姆。我只想指出，西海岸並不是我們看到需求強勁的唯一地區。我的意思是，Mid-Con 這個團體本身很強大。我們進入第一季時庫存處於高位，而第一季結束時庫存處於低位。

And I think that just boasts the strength of demand. It also talks about some of the capacity that was offline during turnarounds and it's really the source of the strength and cracks that we see across the country.

我認為這只是誇大了需求的強度。它還談到了在周轉期間處於離線狀態的一些產能，這確實是我們在全國各地看到的力量和裂縫的根源。

Great. Thanks for that. And my follow up is on Marketing segment, which had a really strong quarter, particularly for 1Q, which is typically a weaker period seasonally. Could you talk to some of the drivers during the quarter, the repeatability of it, and then any change to the $75 million to $80 million annual EBITDA run rate that you've talked about in the past on that? Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。我的後續關注點是行銷部門，本季表現非常強勁，尤其是第一季度，這通常是季節性的較淡期。您能否談談本季的一些驅動因素、其可重複性，以及您過去談到的 7500 萬至 8000 萬美元年度 EBITDA 運行率的任何變化？謝謝。

Yeah. This is Steve. We're very excited about the marketing business and the performance that we had in the first quarter record EBITDA. That was largely driven by optimizing our underlying business. We're starting to see the results of high grading our portfolio, making sure that our brand standard is applied to the new sites that we're bringing on.

是的。這是史蒂夫。我們對行銷業務以及第一季創紀錄的 EBITDA 表現感到非常興奮。這主要是透過優化我們的基礎業務來實現的。我們開始看到對我們的產品組合進行高評級的成果，確保我們的品牌標準應用於我們正在引入的新網站。

And to be honest, calling some of the portfolio that doesn't make sense. But then also I would tell you, getting the full value of the brand where we haven't done that in the past. And so, strategically making moves and growing in the right market.

老實說，有些投資組合的稱呼是沒有意義的。但同時我還要告訴你，我們過去沒有做到這一點，也沒有充分發揮品牌的價值。因此，要採取策略性行動，在正確的市場中發展。

It's all playing out and our underlying execution of our business is starting to yield results. As we look forward, we think that our that our run rate is still between $75 million and $85 million annually, and we see upward progression as we continue to go build out our network moving forward.

一切都在順利進行，我們業務的基本執行也開始有成果。展望未來，我們認為我們的運行率仍然在每年 7500 萬美元至 8500 萬美元之間，隨著我們繼續建立網絡，我們會看到上升的勢頭。

Yeah. And Joe, I would just say, we haven't changed our guidance in terms of run rates, but obviously, in the first quarter, results are very positive. We do think they're going to be sustainable. And so, we'll update you guys as we continue to play that out, but we don't think there was an anomaly if that's what you're asking or any type of special items in the first quarter for marketing.

是的。喬，我只想說，我們沒有改變對運行率的預期，但顯然，第一季的結果非常積極。我們確實認為它們將會可持續發展。因此，我們會繼續向你們通報最新情況，但我們認為，如果這是你們所問的，那麼在第一季的行銷中，並不存在任何異常情況或任何類型的特殊項目。

The additional stores, I mean, we're up over 100 stores year over year versus where we were in the first quarter of last year. All that is driving the growth that you're seeing. We've talked about how the branded put for our barrels is our key strategy that we were focused on coming out of the Sinclair acquisition.

我的意思是，與去年第一季相比，我們新增了 100 多家門市。所有這些都推動著您所看到的成長。我們已經討論過，我們的酒桶品牌化是我們專注於 Sinclair 收購的關鍵策略。

And now you're really starting to see the results starting to really play out on the bottom line. We still think there's a lot of opportunity to go, and we're driving towards that in terms of what you're going to see more stores, you're going to see higher volumes, and then you're going to see higher EBITDA coming out of our Marketing segment.

現在您確實開始看到結果在底線上真正發揮作用。我們仍然認為還有很多機會，我們正在朝著這個方向努力，你將會看到更多的商店，你將會看到更高的銷售量，然後你將會看到我們的行銷部門產生更高的 EBITDA。

That's great. Sounds like you all have solid momentum in that segment. Thank you all for the time. I appreciate it.

那太棒了。聽起來你們在該領域都擁有強勁的勢頭。感謝大家抽出時間。我很感激。

Jason Gabelman, TD Cowen.

傑森·加貝爾曼（Jason Gabelman），TD Cowen。

Yeah. Hey. Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. The first one I wanted to ask is just the outlook for turnarounds on the year and wondering what the cadence is quarter to quarter.

是的。嘿。早安.感謝您回答我的問題。我想問的第一個問題是今年扭虧為盈的前景，以及想知道每季的節奏是怎樣的。

1Q, you had some activity. 2Q, it seems like you have a bit more -- wondering if 2Q is kind of the peak turnaround quarter for the year, and then how that kind of informs your cash management strategy and potentially the ability and desire to buy back shares as they've weakened a bit here.

1Q，你有一些活動。第二季度，似乎您還有更多疑問——想知道第二季度是否是今年的轉折點，以及這會如何影響您的現金管理策略，以及潛在的回購股票的能力和意願，因為股票在這裡已經減弱。

So I'll take the first part. This is Valerie. Our turnaround performance continues to be a highlight for us. First quarter is the heavier quarter with our lubricants, Tulsa, and Parco turnarounds. We have one turnaround remaining for the year that will fall in the third quarter.

所以我選擇第一部分。這是瓦萊麗。我們的扭虧為盈表現持續成為我們的一大亮點。第一季是我們潤滑油、塔爾薩和帕科週轉業務最繁忙的季度。我們今年還剩一次轉機，即第三季。

And those, that's really the end of our annual or season for the year. We directionally expect our turnarounds as we anticipate that those are going to continue to level out as we move into '26, '27 and beyond.

這就是我們今年的年度活動或季節的真正結束。我們對扭轉局面有方向性的預期，因為我們預計，隨著我們進入 26 年、27 年及以後，這些局面將繼續趨於平穩。

Jason, I'll take your second question with respect to how this informs our cash management strategy and buybacks. Obviously, this quarter with the turnarounds was a net cash draw for us. As we progress into the balance of the year with a line of sight of better cracks, we believe that any excess cash flow that we generate we should be able to return to our to our shareholders. And just to remind everyone, just with our dividends, our run rate now at 6%. So our strategy is to return any of that excess cash to our shareholders.

傑森，我將回答你的第二個問題，關於這如何影響我們的現金管理策略和回購。顯然，本季的扭虧為盈對我們來說是一筆淨現金支出。隨著我們進入今年的平衡階段，裂縫狀況有所改善，我們相信，我們產生的任何超額現金流都應該能夠返還給我們的股東。需要提醒大家的是，加上股息，我們的運行率目前是 6%。因此，我們的策略是將多餘的現金回饋給股東。

And Jason, this is Tim. Let me just add one more thing. During Atanas' prepared remarks, he mentioned that our turnaround guidance is still unchanged for this year, and that's because our turnaround execution continues to go as planned. But Valerie mentioned that we have a Lubes turnaround this year, which is what kept our overall turnaround spend at these levels.

傑森，這是提姆。我再補充一點。阿塔納斯在準備好的發言中提到，我們今年的扭虧為盈指引仍然沒有變化，這是因為我們的扭虧為盈執行繼續按計劃進行。但瓦萊麗提到，我們今年的潤滑油業務出現了轉機，這使得我們的整體週轉支出維持在目前的水平。

Next year, we won't have that additional Lubes plant in our turnaround schedule. And as we talked about in the past, we are starting to get past the peak in terms of our catch-up capital required for turnarounds, and we are anticipating that the turnaround workload in starting next year and then in the years after that will be significantly lower than what we've seen over the last couple of years in turnarounds.

明年，我們的周轉計畫中將不再增加那個潤滑油工廠。正如我們過去所談到的，就扭轉頹勢所需的追趕資本而言，我們已經開始度過高峰期，我們預計從明年開始以及之後幾年的扭轉頹勢工作量將明顯低於過去幾年的扭轉頹勢工作量。

Got it. That's great color. Thanks. And then my follow-up is just on tariffs and the trade war as it relates to the lubes business, a bit less familiar on the dynamics. So I was hoping you could just talk about if there's any tailwinds or headwinds from some of the trade limitations and tariffs that are being put in place as it relates to your lubricants business. Thanks.

知道了。顏色真棒。謝謝。然後我的後續問題只是關於與潤滑油業務相關的關稅和貿易戰，我對其中的動態不太熟悉。所以我希望您能談談，對於您的潤滑油業務而言，一些貿易限制和關稅是否會帶來順風或逆風。謝謝。

Yeah. Thanks for the question. This is Matt Joyce. With regards specifically to the Lubes piece on tariffs, we've been working to tariff proof the business and our business is largely 95%-plus USMCA compliant with the materials that we bring in and out of the country.

是的。謝謝你的提問。這是馬特喬伊斯。具體到有關關稅的潤滑油部分，我們一直在努力對業務進行關稅證明，我們進出該國的材料業務基本上符合 USMCA 的 95% 以上。

And we've been evaluating some of the production of our finished products in Specialties and looking at ensuring that they're in the best supply chain locations to provide a solution to our customer bases. And as far as specific on costs from either additive companies or other suppliers, we're monitoring that cost of goods very closely and taking any required action in the marketplace as a pass through should we require it.

我們一直在評估專業領域成品的生產情況，並確保它們位於最佳的供應鏈位置，以便為我們的客戶群提供解決方案。至於添加劑公司或其他供應商的具體成本，我們正在密切監控商品成本，並在需要時在市場上採取任何必要的行動。

Yeah. And Jason, just to make it clear, we do have a facility up in Canada and as Matt talked about the team has done a great job of managing through the different tariff regulations. Most of our products actually do qualify for USMCA on the Lubes side, and these guys have done a great job of mapping that so that we can avoid the tariffs.

是的。傑森，需要說明的是，我們在加拿大確實有一個工廠，正如馬特所說的那樣，我們的團隊在管理不同的關稅法規方面做得非常出色。我們的大多數產品實際上都符合 USMCA 的潤滑油資格，而且這些人在這方面做得非常出色，因此我們可以避免關稅。

I will now turn the call back to Tim for closing remarks.

現在我將把電話轉回給提姆，請他作最後發言。

Thank you, Kate. Before we close, I want to emphasize that our first quarter performance represented improved financials quarter over quarter overall and especially for Refining, Midstream, Marketing and Lubes & Specialties segments.

謝謝你，凱特。在結束之前，我想強調的是，我們的第一季業績表明，整體財務狀況比上一季度有所改善，特別是煉油、中游、行銷和潤滑油及特種產品部門。

Delivering these stronger results, despite all the challenging market conditions and headwinds we faced is a proof point that our strategy is working. In addition, these results demonstrate the earnings power by diversified portfolio.

儘管我們面臨著種種挑戰性的市場條件和阻力，但我們仍取得了這些更強勁的業績，證明我們的策略是有效的。此外，這些結果證明了多元化投資組合的獲利能力。

Looking ahead, our priorities remain the same. So one, improve our reliability. Two, integrate and optimize our portfolio of assets. And three, return excess cash to shareholders. Thank you for joining our call and have a great day.

展望未來，我們的優先事項保持不變。因此，首先，提高我們的可靠性。二是整合優化資產組合。第三，將多餘的現金回饋給股東。感謝您參加我們的電話會議並祝您有愉快的一天。

Thank you. This does conclude today's teleconference. Please disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。請此時斷開您的線路並祝您度過美好的一天。