HF Sinclair Corp (DINO) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to HF Sinclair Corporation's third quarter 2024 conference call and webcast. Hosting the call today is Tim Go, Chief Executive Officer of HF Sinclair. He's joined by Atanas Atanasov, Chief Financial Officer; Steve Ledbetter, EVP of Commercial; Valerie Pompa, EVP of Operations; and Matt Joyce, SVP of Lubricants and Specialties.

歡迎參加 HF Sinclair Corporation 2024 年第三季電話會議和網路廣播。今天電話會議的主持人是 HF Sinclair 的執行長 Tim Go。與他一同加入的還有財務長 Atanas Atanasov； Steve Ledbetter，商業執行副總裁； Valerie Pompa，營運執行副總裁；以及潤滑油和特種產品資深副總裁Matt Joyce。

(Operator Instructions) Please note, that this conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Craig Biery, Vice President, Investor Relations. Craig, you may begin.

現在我很高興將發言權交給投資人關係副總裁 Craig Biery。克雷格，你可以開始啦。

Thank you, Novi. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to HF Sinclair Corporation's third quarter 2024 earnings call. This morning, we issued a press release announcing results for the quarter ending September 30, 2024. If you would like a copy of the earnings press release, you may find them on our website at hfsinclair.com.

謝謝你，諾維。大家早安，歡迎參加 HF Sinclair Corporation 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天上午，我們發布了一份新聞稿，宣布了截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日的季度業績。如果您想要一份收益新聞稿，您可以在我們的網站 hfsinclair.com 上找到。

Before we proceed with remarks, please note the Safe Harbor Disclosure Statement in today's press release. In summary, it says statements made regarding management expectations, judgments, or predictions are forward-looking statements. These statements are intended to be covered under the Safe Harbor provisions of Federal Security Laws.

在我們繼續發表評論之前，請注意今天新聞稿中的安全港披露聲明。總之，它說關於管理階層期望、判斷或預測的陳述都是前瞻性的陳述。這些聲明旨在受到聯邦安全法安全港條款的保護。

There are many factors that could cause results to differ from expectations, including those noted in our SEC filings. The call also may include discussion of non-GAAP measures. Please see the earnings press release for reconciliation to GAAP financial measures. Also, please note any time sensitive information provided on today's call may no longer be accurate at the time of any webcast replay or rereading of the transcript.

有許多因素可能導致結果與預期不同，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中指出的因素。電話會議也可能包括對非公認會計準則指標的討論。請參閱收益新聞稿以了解與 GAAP 財務指標的調整。此外，請注意，今天通話中提供的任何時間敏感資訊在網路直播重播或重新閱讀記錄時可能不再準確。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Tim.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給提姆。

Good morning, everyone, and happy Halloween. We are pleased with our third quarter financial and operational performance in all of our businesses, and especially by the strong and consistent earnings in our Marketing, Midstream and Lubricants and Specialties segments.

大家早安，萬聖節快樂。我們對所有業務第三季的財務和營運業績感到滿意，尤其是行銷、中游、潤滑油和特種產品部門強勁而持續的盈利。

These contributions from our differentiated business segments highlight the value of our diversified portfolio, especially as global refining margins weaken. We continue to execute our strategy to integrate and optimize our portfolio in order to strengthen the earnings power and competitive advantage of our businesses while focusing on improving safe and reliable operations.

我們差異化業務部門的貢獻凸顯了我們多元化投資組合的價值，尤其是在全球煉油利潤率下降的情況下。我們持續執行整合和優化投資組合的策略，以增強我們業務的獲利能力和競爭優勢，同時專注於提高安全可靠的營運。

During the third quarter, we returned $222 million in cash to shareholders and today announced a $0.50 quarterly dividend, demonstrating our continued commitment to shareholder returns.

第三季度，我們向股東返還了 2.22 億美元現金，並於今天宣布派發 0.50 美元的季度股息，這表明了我們對股東回報的持續承諾。

Now, let me cover our segment highlights before turning over to Atlas. In Refining, for the third quarter of 2024, we continued our streak of improved reliability by completing the turnaround at our Parker refinery on time and on budget.

現在，在前往 Atlas 之前，讓我先介紹一下我們的部分亮點。在煉油業務方面，到 2024 年第三季度，我們按時、按預算完成了帕克煉油廠的改造，並持續提高可靠性。

Year-to-date, we've made progress on lowering our operating expenses, and we'll continue to focus on cost management and improving utilization as we drive towards achieving our near-term target of $7.25 per throughput barrel.

今年迄今為止，我們在降低營運費用方面取得了進展，我們將繼續專注於成本管理和提高利用率，努力實現每桶 7.25 美元的近期目標。

Our optimization efforts resulted in a quarterly record for jet production across our fleet, and our Woods Cross refinery set a quarterly record for premium production. In Renewables, for the third quarter of 2024, we set a record for the highest quarterly sales volumes of renewable diesel and achieved our lowest operating expenses per gallon. Our team's optimization and reliability efforts resulted in another quarter of positive adjusted EBITDA, despite continued headwinds from weak RINs and LCFS credit prices.

我們的優化努力使我們整個機隊的噴射機產量創下了季度紀錄，我們的伍茲十字煉油廠也創下了優質飛機產量的季度紀錄。在再生能源領域，2024 年第三季度，我們創下了再生柴油季度銷售量的最高紀錄，並實現了每加侖最低的營運費用。儘管 RIN 和 LCFS 信用價格持續疲軟，但我們團隊的優化和可靠性努力仍使調整後的 EBITDA 再度正成長。

Our strategy for the renewable diesel business remains centered on the things we can control to, one, reduce the level of high-cost inventories; two, increase our low CI feedstock mix; and three, lower our operating expenses.

我們針對再生柴油業務的策略仍以我們能夠控制的事情為中心：一是降低高成本庫存水準；二、增加我們的低CI原料組合；第三，降低我們的營運費用。

In marketing, in the third quarter of 2024, we continue to grow our store count with the addition of 22 net new branded sites. And on a year-to-date basis, we have added a net of 46 fully branded sites to our portfolio.

在行銷方面，2024 年第三季度，我們將持續增加門市數量，新增 22 家品牌門市。從年初至今，我們已在投資組合中新增了 46 個全品牌站點。

Our strong third quarter results, reflects the growth strategies we are executing since the Sinclair acquisition. Looking forward, we continue to expand our growth pipeline and now have new signed contracts to convert 168 stores to branded wholesale over the next six to 12 months, and we continue to target 10% annual growth for branded sites.

我們強勁的第三季業績反映了我們自收購 Sinclair 以來實施的成長策略。展望未來，我們將繼續擴大我們的成長管道，現在已經簽署了新的合同，將在未來六到十二個月內將168 家商店轉變為品牌批發商店，並且我們繼續將品牌網站的年增長率定為10%。

In Lubricants and Specialties, we reported another strong quarter of results despite the FIFO headwinds from falling oil prices. Our strategic initiatives of: one, optimizing our sales mix; two, operational efficiency; and three, furthering our base oil integration efforts continue to strengthen our lubricants business.

在潤滑油和特種化學品方面，儘管油價下跌給先進先出 (FIFO) 帶來阻力，但我們仍報告了另一個強勁的季度業績。我們的策略性舉措：一、優化我們的銷售組合；二、營運效率；三是進一步加強基礎油整合力度，持續加強潤滑油業務。

In addition to our efforts to organically grow the business by high grading our finished products portfolio, we have also introduced digital tools, providing better visibility to our supply chain and manufacturing cost structures and have developed new product offerings to serve growing end-use markets.

除了透過對成品組合進行高評級來實現業務的有機成長之外，我們還引入了數位工具，使我們的供應鏈和製造成本結構更加清晰，並開發了新的產品來滿足不斷增長的終端使用市場的需求。

In our midstream business, for the third quarter of 2024, we delivered another strong quarter of performance as we continue our integration work to drive our growth in this segment. Year-to-date, we have set record affiliate and third party transportation volumes, supported by strength in our crude pipeline systems in the Rockies and Southwest.

在我們的中游業務中，在 2024 年第三季度，我們又取得了強勁的業績，我們繼續進行整合工作以推動該領域的成長。年初至今，由於落基山脈和西南地區原油管道系統的優勢，我們的附屬公司和第三方運輸量創下了歷史新高。

In the third quarter, we returned $222 million to shareholders through share repurchases and dividends. Since the Sinclair acquisition in March 2022, we have returned over $3.9 billion in cash to shareholders and have reduced our share count by over 57 million shares, which represents 71% of the shares we issued for both the Sinclair and HEP transactions.

第三季度，我們透過股票回購和股利向股東返還了2.22億美元。自 2022 年 3 月收購 Sinclair 以來，我們已向股東返還了超過 39 億美元的現金，並減少了超過 5,700 萬股的股份，佔 Sinclair 和 HEP 交易中發行股份的 71%。

As of September 30, 2024, we have approximately $800 million outstanding on our share repurchase authorization, and we remain committed to our long-term cash return strategy and long-term payout ratio while maintaining a strong balance sheet and investment-grade credit rating.

截至2024 年9 月30 日，我們的股票回購授權未償還金額約為8 億美元，我們將繼續致力於我們的長期現金回報策略和長期派息率，同時保持強勁的資產負債表和投資級信用評級。

As I mentioned earlier, we also announced that our Board of Directors declared a regular quarterly dividend of $0.50 per share payable on December 4, 2024, to holders of record on November 21, 2024.

正如我之前提到的，我們還宣布，董事會宣布向 2024 年 11 月 21 日登記在冊的持有人派發每股 0.50 美元的定期季度股息，將於 2024 年 12 月 4 日支付。

Looking forward, we remain committed to improving our safe and reliable operations, and we believe our diversified business portfolio positions us to generate attractive through cyclical cash flows and continued strong returns to our shareholders.

展望未來，我們將繼續致力於改善我們的安全可靠的運營，我們相信，我們多元化的業務組合使我們能夠透過週期性現金流和持續強勁的股東回報創造有吸引力的收益。

With that, let me turn the call over to Atanas.

說完這些，讓我把電話轉給阿塔納斯。

Thank you, Tim, and good morning, everyone. Let's begin by reviewing HF Sinclair's financial highlights. Today, we reported third quarter net loss attributable to HF Sinclair shareholders of $76 million, or negative $0.40 per diluted share. These results reflect special items that collectively decreased net income by $172 million.

謝謝你，提姆，大家早安。讓我們先回顧一下 HF Sinclair 的財務亮點。今天，我們報告了第三季歸屬於 HF Sinclair 股東的淨虧損為 7,600 萬美元，即每股虧損 0.40 美元。這些結果反映出特殊項目導致淨收入總計減少 1.72 億美元。

Excluding these items, adjusted net income for the third quarter was $97 million, or $0.51 per diluted share compared to adjusted net income of $760 million, or $4.06 per diluted share for the same period in 2023. Adjusted EBITDA for the third quarter was $316 million, compared to $1.2 billion in the third quarter of 2023.

除這些項目外，第三季調整後淨收入為 9,700 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.51 美元，而 2023 年同期調整後淨收入為 7.6 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 4.06 美元。第三季調整後 EBITDA 為 3.16 億美元，而 2023 年第三季為 12 億美元。

In our Refining segment, third quarter adjusted EBITDA was $110 million, compared to $1 billion in the third quarter of 2023. This decrease was primarily driven by lower adjusted refinery gross margins in both the West and Mid-Con regions as a result of high global supply across the industry, which were partially offset by higher refined product sales volumes.

在我們的煉油部門，第三季調整後的 EBITDA 為 1.1 億美元，而 2023 年第三季為 10 億美元。下降的主要原因是，由於整個行業的全球供應量高，西部和中西部地區調整後的煉油廠毛利率下降，但成品油銷量增加部分抵消了這一影響。

Crude oil charge averaged 607,000 barrels per day for the third quarter, compared to 602,000 barrels per day for the third quarter of 2023. This increase was primarily a result of improved reliability and decreased turnaround activities at our refineries compared to the third quarter of 2023.

第三季原油平均消耗量為每天 607,000 桶，而 2023 年第三季為每天 602,000 桶。這一成長主要是由於與 2023 年第三季相比，我們煉油廠的可靠性提高和周轉活動減少。

In our Renewables segment, we reported adjusted EBITDA of $2 million for the third quarter compared to $5 million in the third quarter of 2023. This decrease was primarily due to lower indicator margins despite increased sales volumes and feedstock optimization in the third quarter of 2024. Total sales volumes were 69 million gallons for the third quarter as compared to 55 million gallons for the third quarter of 2023.

在我們的再生能源部門，我們報告第三季的調整後 EBITDA 為 200 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季為 500 萬美元。下降的主要原因是儘管 2024 年第三季銷售量增加且原料優化，但指標利潤率較低。第三季的總銷售量為 6,900 萬加侖，而 2023 年第三季的總銷售量為 5,500 萬加侖。

Our Marketing segment reported EBITDA of $22 million for the third quarter, compared to $21 million for the third quarter of 2023. This increase was primarily driven by higher margins in the third quarter of 2024. Our Lubricants and Specialties segment reported EBITDA of $76 million for the third quarter, compared to EBITDA of $118 million for the third quarter of 2023.

我們的行銷部門報告第三季的 EBITDA 為 2,200 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季的 EBITDA 為 2,100 萬美元。這一增長主要得益於 2024 年第三季利潤率的提高。我們的潤滑油和特種產品部門報告第三季的 EBITDA 為 7,600 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季的 EBITDA 為 1.18 億美元。

This decrease was primarily driven by a $27 million FIFO charge from consumption of high-priced feedstock inventory in the third quarter of 2024 compared to a $30 million FIFO benefit in the third quarter of 2023, partially offset by improvements in the underlying business, including increased sales volumes, sales mix optimization and base oil, integration in the third quarter of 2024.

這一下降主要由於 2024 年第三季高價原料庫存消耗產生的 2,700 萬美元 FIFO 費用，而 2023 年第三季的 FIFO 收益為 3,000 萬美元，部分被基礎業務的改善所抵消，包括增加銷售量、銷售組合最佳化和基礎油，2024 年第三季整合。

Our Midstream segment reported adjusted EBITDA of $112 million in the third quarter compared to $101 million in the same period of last year. This increase was primarily driven by higher revenues from increased volumes and higher tariffs in the third quarter of 2024.

我們中游部門第三季的調整後 EBITDA 為 1.12 億美元，去年同期為 1.01 億美元。這一增長主要得益於 2024 年第三季銷售增加和關稅提高帶來的收入增加。

Net cash provided by operations totaled $708 million, which includes $90 million of turnaround spend in the quarter. HF Sinclair capital expenditures totaled $124 million for the third quarter. As of September 30, 2024, HF Sinclair's total liquidity stood at approximately $3.7 billion, which includes a cash balance of $1.23 billion, our undrawn $1.65 billion unsecured credit facility and $850 million availability on the HEP credit facility.

經營活動提供的淨現金總計 7.08 億美元，其中包括本季 9,000 萬美元的周轉支出。HF Sinclair 第三季的資本支出總計 1.24 億美元。截至2024 年9 月30 日，HF Sinclair 的總流動資金約為37 億美元，其中包括12.3 億美元的現金餘額、我們未使用的16.5 億美元無擔保信貸額度以及8.5 億美元的HEP 信貸額度可用金額。

As of September 30, we had $2.7 billion of debt outstanding with a debt-to-cap ratio of 22% and net debt-to-cap ratio of 12%. Let's go through some guidance items. With respect to capital spending for full year 2024, we still expect to spend approximately $800 million in sustaining capital, including turnarounds and catalysts.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的未償負債為 27 億美元，負債與資本比率為 22%，淨負債與資本比率為 12%。讓我們來看看一些指導事項。對於 2024 年全年的資本支出，我們仍預計將花費約 8 億美元的維持資本，包括轉虧為盈和催化劑。

In addition, we expect to spend $75 million in growth capital investments across our business segments. For the fourth quarter of 2024, we expect to run between 565,000 and 600,000 barrels per day of crude oil in our Refining segment, which reflects the planned turnaround at our El Dorado refinery.

此外，我們預計將向各個業務部門投入 7,500 萬美元的成長資本投資。到 2024 年第四季度，我們預計煉油廠的原油日產量將在 565,000 至 600,000 桶之間，這反映了我們 El Dorado 煉油廠的計劃轉變。

We're now ready to take some questions from the audience.

我們現在準備好回答觀眾的一些問題。

(Operator Instructions) Ryan Todd, Piper Sandler.

（操作員指示）Ryan Todd，Piper Sandler。

Thanks. Congrats on the quarter. Maybe a question, first of all, in terms of kind of cash allocation. You got a great balance sheet. You've maintained an attractive level of shareholder returns in the quarter. As we think about going forward, if margins stay weak, how should we expect you to manage the balance sheet and the trade-offs between how you approach shareholder returns versus the possibility of increasing that debt or managing that debt?

謝謝。恭喜本季取得佳績。首先，可能有一個關於現金分配的問題。你的資產負債表非常出色。本季，你們維持了頗具吸引力的股東回報水準。當我們考慮未來時，如果利潤率持續走低，我們應該如何管理資產負債表以及如何在股東回報與增加債務或管理債務的可能性之間進行權衡？

Yeah. Good morning, Ryan, this is Tim. Let me ask Atanas to jump right in.

是的。早安，瑞安，我是提姆。讓我請阿塔納斯立即加入。

Ryan, thank you for your question. I would point to history and to what we're doing this year in a weakened crack environment, we're able to maintain a very strong balance sheet with net debt of -- net leverage of under one times. And if you look at our year-to-date all-in cash return, we're at 11%.

瑞安，謝謝你的提問。我想指出歷史以及我們今年在疲軟的裂解環境中所做的一切，我們能夠保持非常強勁的資產負債表，淨債務和淨槓桿率低於一倍。如果你看看我們今年迄今為止的全部現金回報率，我們已經達到了 11%。

On a 12-month trailing basis, we're at 14% in a continued weakness, we believe we're still able to maintain a competitive owing cash return to our shareholders. We're certainly committed to our dividend, 100% as well as our buybacks and total return to our shareholders. That, coupled with our investment-grade rating, which is a key differentiator for us at two priorities. We believe we can maintain a prudently conservative balance sheet and continue to return cash to our shareholders.

以過去 12 個月的數據來看，我們的獲利持續疲軟，為 14%，但我們相信我們仍然能夠為股東帶來有競爭力的現金回報。我們當然致力於 100% 的股息、回購和向股東提供總回報。再加上我們的投資等級評級，這是我們在兩個優先事項上的關鍵區別因素。我們相信，我們可以維持審慎保守的資產負債表，並繼續向股東返還現金。

Yeah. And Ryan, this is Tim. I'll just jump in and say, remember, one of the reasons we bought in our HEP business last year was for the free cash flow and was for times like this where we knew that having that cash flow within our portfolio was going to be better. And so we're very happy we did that, and we're positioned better for it.

是的。瑞安，這是提姆。我只想說，記住，我們去年購買 HEP 業務的原因之一就是為了獲得自由現金流，因為我們知道，在我們的投資組合中擁有這些現金流將會更好的。我們很高興我們做到了這一點，而且我們為此做好了更好的準備。

Great. Thanks. And then -- maybe just a question on refining operations. I mean throughput was very strong in the quarter, continuing trend of strong reliability on year-end. I mean can you talk about what's working well in terms of the efforts you've made to improve operational reliability, -- what you're still focused on? What are areas that are still maybe further improvements that we should expect as we look forward?

偉大的。謝謝。然後 - 也許只是一個關於煉油業務的問題。我的意思是本季的吞吐量非常強勁，年底繼續保持強勁可靠性的趨勢。我的意思是，您能談談在提高營運可靠性方面您所做的努力中哪些是有效的嗎？展望未來，哪些領域仍有待進一步改進？

Yeah, Ryan, thanks for the question. As you know, focusing on improving our reliability has been our core priority here for the last several years, and it is good to see the fruits of that labor starting to show. So let me ask Valerie to comment.

是的，Ryan，謝謝你的提問。正如你們所知，過去幾年來，提高可靠性一直是我們的核心任務，我們很高興看到我們的努力開始取得成果。因此，請允許我請瓦萊麗發表評論。

Good morning. Yeah. So remember, we've talked about our strategy before. We're focused on heavy -- we've had heavy turnarounds last few years, and each of those turnarounds making improvements. And so what's working is our turnaround performance. Every turnaround, we're addressing reliability opportunities. We're putting in the right capital, the right scope, and we're getting very predictable on those as demonstrated this year with Parco and the turnarounds we've completed.

早安.是的。所以請記住，我們之前討論過我們的策略。我們專注於重型產品——過去幾年我們經歷了重大轉變，每次轉變都取得了進步。因此，我們的扭轉業績是有效的。每次轉變，我們都在解決可靠性機會。我們投入了正確的資本，正確的範圍，而且我們對這些變得非常有預測性，正如今年 Parco 和我們完成的扭轉局面所展示的那樣。

We also -- what's working -- what's also working is our technology-driven efficiency improvements. We're doing a lot of technology improvements to drive efficiency in our operations and maintenance work at the ground floor, and that's starting to produce dividends in terms of lowering our operating costs by equipment count. So all of the strategies we've been talking about and continue to talk about are just now starting to produce dividends.

我們也 — — 正在發揮作用的 — — 同樣有效的是我們的技術驅動的效率改進。我們正在進行大量技術改進，以提高底層營運和維護工作的效率，而這開始在降低設備數量營運成本方面產生效益。所以，我們一直在談論和繼續談論的所有策略現在都開始產生紅利。

And Ryan, I would just say, not only is that showing up in turnaround performance, it's showing up in throughput, but it's also showing up in OpEx per barrel. And even though our OpEx was a little bit higher this quarter, it was mostly due to the maintenance items that we had. Year-to-date, we're $0.66 a barrel lower than we were last year, and that's a tribute to the improved reliability that Val and her team are delivering to the bottom-line.

瑞安，我只想說，這不僅體現在周轉表現上，體現在吞吐量上，也體現在每桶的營運成本上。儘管本季度我們的營運支出略高，但這主要是由於我們的維護項目所致。今年迄今，我們的油價比去年每桶低 0.66 美元，這要歸功於 Val 和她的團隊為盈利帶來的可靠性提升。

Manav Gupta, UBS.

瑞銀的 Manav Gupta。

Good morning team. It looks like you guys are very focused on growing your marketing business. Help us understand why there is a strategic focus here? Is it -- does it gives you ability to place the product, some pipelines are being built into your regions? Does that allow you to offset that, those pipelines, those product pipelines? Help us understand the real reason you are so focused on growing your marketing business.

大家早安。看起來你們非常注重發展行銷業務。幫助我們理解為什麼這裡有一個戰略重點？它是否賦予了您放置產品的能力，一些管道正在您的地區建造？這是否可以讓你抵銷那些管道、那些產品管道？幫助我們了解您如此專注於發展行銷業務的真正原因。

Yes. Thanks for the question, Manav. As you know, when we merged with Sinclair and brought them into the family, growing the marketing business was our core priority. And again, we're really starting to see that find its legs and Steve, why don't you talk a little bit more about the value and the benefit of doing that?

是的。感謝 Manav 提問。如您所知，當我們與 Sinclair 合併並將其納入家族時，發展行銷業務是我們的核心重點。而且，我們真的開始看到它找到了立足點，史蒂夫，你為什麼不多談談這樣做的價值和好處呢？

Yes, sure. Thanks, Manav. This is Steve. Following on with Tim's comments, we really believe that there's a significant opportunity here to increase our branded put. We think there are logistical advantages to producing in markets that we serve and being connected through our midstream assets, and we're looking to exploit that.

是的，當然。謝謝，Manav。這是史蒂夫。根據提姆的評論，我們確實相信這裡有一個巨大機會來增加我們的品牌認沽權。我們認為，在我們服務的市場進行生產並透過我們的中游資產進行連接具有物流優勢，我們正在尋求利用這一點。

And the final piece is we think that the brand is undervalued in terms of how we get value out of it. So, that branded put gives us some resiliency through the cycle. And to be honest, there's quite a bit of interest and demand for DINO.

最後一點是，我們認為，從我們如何從該品牌中獲取價值來看，該品牌被低估了。因此，該品牌看跌期權在整個週期中為我們提供了一定的彈性。說實話，人們對 DINO 的興趣和需求相當大。

And so, what we've seen so far in our growth, as Tim mentioned earlier, we have an additional signed sites of 168 that will be on the ground between 6 and 12 months. And that, coupled with what we're doing in terms of getting more value out of the brand, we believe, should be an increased value to the overall enterprise.

正如提姆之前提到的，就我們目前的成長來看，我們又簽約了 168 個站點，這些站點將在 6 到 12 個月內投入使用。我們相信，再加上我們為從品牌中獲取更多價值所做的努力，這將會增加整個企業的價值。

So Manav, as you noticed, we're on a run rate of, call it, $75 million to $80 million of EBITDA in our marketing business, which is much higher than the $50 million of mid-cycle that we started with at the acquisition.

Manav，正如你所注意到的，我們行銷業務的 EBITDA 運行率為 7500 萬至 8000 萬美元，這比我們收購時中期週期的 5000 萬美元要高得多。

But what you're seeing in that marketing segment is really only the tip of the iceberg because what's happening is for every branded barrel we're able to place, it really comes out of the marginal bulk barrel that we have to sell at that at a much lower price.

但你在那個市場區隔中看到的只是冰山一角，因為我們能夠投放的每一個品牌桶，實際上都來自我們必須以當時的價格出售的邊際散裝桶。

And those bulk barrels and the uplift associated with that is actually in the refining business. And so what you see reported in the marketing segment is really just a piece of the value of these branded bulk barrels because it's also uplifting the refining netback on the wholesale barrels, too.

這些散裝桶以及與之相關的提升實際上屬於煉油業務。因此，您在行銷部分看到的報告實際上只是這些品牌散裝桶價值的一部分，因為它也提升了批發桶的煉油淨回值。

My second question here is on lubes. When we adjust for the FIFO impact, it's again, a pretty strong quarter. And you have improved -- continued to improve this business, and it's starting to get to a run rate of about $350 million of EBITDA. So despite what the underlying volatile commodity is doing. So help us understand some of the projects you have undertaken or measures you have undertaken to -- which has allowed you to get to that run rate of about $350 million of EBITDA in this business?

我的第二個問題是關於潤滑油的。當我們調整 FIFO 的影響時，這又是一個相當強勁的季度。而且你們已經改進了——繼續改進這項業務，並且它的 EBITDA 運行率開始達到約 3.5 億美元。因此，不管基礎波動性商品的表現如何。那麼，請幫助我們了解您已開展的一些項目或採取的措施——這些項目或措施使您在該業務中的 EBITDA 達到了約 3.5 億美元的運行率？

Yes. Thanks, Manav. The lubes business just continues to perform quarter-over-quarter. It's really our poster child of what we can do when we focus on integration and optimization. And I think Matt and his team have really done a great job. Matt, do you want to talk about what's going on?

是的。謝謝，Manav。潤滑油業務持續保持逐季良好的表現。這實際上是我們專注於整合和優化時所能做的事情的典型例子。我認為馬特和他的團隊確實做得非常好。馬特，你想談談發生了什麼事嗎？

Sure. Manav, Matt here. You know, what we saw is, of course, we had a lot of FIFO headwinds, which, of course, its means that we're going to use those feedstock inventories and consume older more expensive feed versus our replacement costs. But in any case, these tend to balance out throughout the year. And the underlying business remains very healthy.

當然。Manav，我是馬特。你知道，我們看到的是，我們當然有很多先進先出 (FIFO) 的阻力，這當然意味著我們將使用那些原料庫存，並消耗更老、更昂貴的飼料，而不是我們的替換成本。但無論如何，這些因素在全年往往會保持平衡。而且基礎業務仍然非常健康。

Actually, absent of that FIFO in this quarter, it was one of our strongest quarters since we've held the businesses over the past many years. And it's really driven through a focus on operational efficiencies that we've talked about. The team has done a tremendous job of getting after some digital tools that are allowing us to get a better visibility of transportation of planning and of pricing management.

實際上，本季度沒有 FIFO，但這是我們多年來一直保持業務以來最強勁的季度之一。這實際上是透過專注於我們所討論的營運效率來實現的。該團隊在開發一些數位工具方面做了大量工作，這些工具使我們能夠更好地了解運輸規劃和定價管理。

And that's a big part of the secret sauce that we're using. I referred to it in past quarters as our housekeeping, but we've done a really nice job of that. And on top of it, we've gone out with some regional core growth opportunities and develop new offerings that place our base oils in the highest value applications that we can.

這就是我們使用的秘密武器的重要組成部分。在過去的幾個季度中，我將其稱為我們的內部管理，但我們在這方面做得非常好。除此之外，我們也抓住了一些區域核心成長機會，開發了新的產品，使我們的基礎油能夠應用於盡可能高價值的應用領域。

And one that we're really proud of is in our specialties portfolio. We introduced a new ingredient rubber processing technology for the tire and construction industry this past quarter called Circosol 5100. That will provide a much needed source of TDAE treated distillate aromatic extracts in North American market and provide significant improvement in the tire industry.

我們真正引以為傲的是我們的專業產品組合。我們上個季度為輪胎和建築業推出了一種名為 Circosol 5100 的新型橡膠加工技術。這將為北美市場提供急需的 TDAE 處理的餾出芳香族萃取物來源，並為輪胎產業帶來顯著的改進。

And that's under test right now. We're going to see some modest sales start in early 2025. And then the other one that we've just introduced is really exciting called Innovate, which is a new dielectric immersion cooling fluid technology intended for use in the data centers and digital mining space. So again, looking for new different areas to grow and see where our molecules and our technologies can be used to better improve our business and those businesses and markets we serve.

現在正在測試中。我們將在 2025 年初看到一些適度的銷售開始。我們剛剛介紹的另一個非常令人興奮的技術叫做 Innovate，它是一種新型介電浸入式冷卻液技術，旨在用於資料中心和數位挖掘領域。因此，我們再次尋找新的不同成長領域，看看我們的分子和技術可以如何應用，以更好地改善我們的業務以及我們所服務的業務和市場。

So Manav, as you can hear, we've talked a lot about integration of our base oil business in with our finished lubes business. And that's driving a lot of our resiliency in terms of -- through the base oil crack cycle. But what Matt is talking about is growth. And you're really seeing a lot of really good growth in the finished lubes business, in particular, in North America, double digits in North America for the last several years, and that's really what's driving the good numbers you're seeing.

所以 Manav，正如您所聽到的，我們已經討論了很多關於基礎油業務與成品潤滑油業務整合的話題。這在很大程度上提高了我們透過基礎油裂解循環的彈性。但馬特談論的是成長。而且您確實看到成品潤滑油業務取得了非常好的成長，特別是在北美，過去幾年北美的增幅都達到了兩位數，而這才是推動您所看到的良好業績的真正原因。

Paul Cheng, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Paul Cheng。

Good morning. Can I have two questions? The first one, I want to go back into lubricant. Tim, in the past, I think you guys have mentioned that in the long-haul, this may not be a core business, or that may not be part of your core portfolio. But I'm just curious that with your improvement in the business and you gained the expertise in there, is there any reason why it cannot be part of your core portfolio in the long run?

早安.我可以問兩個問題嗎？第一個，我想回到潤滑劑的話題。提姆，我想你們過去曾提到過，從長遠來看，這可能不是核心業務，或者可能不是你們核心投資組合的一部分。但我很好奇，隨著你們業務的進步和專業知識的積累，有什麼理由不能讓它長期成為你們的核心投資組合的一部分嗎？

Is there any particular reason what you don't like about this business and as such that you think in the long haul, it may be better off that to be in someone else's portfolio other than, yes, the valuation could be maybe a little bit higher multiple. But I mean, after you pay tax and everything, is it really that much value added? So that's the first question.

您是否有什麼特別的原因不喜歡這家公司，因此您認為從長遠來看，將其納入別人的投資組合可能會更好，除了估值可能稍微高一點更高的倍數。但我的意思是，在你繳稅和其他一切費用之後，真的增加了那麼多的價值嗎？這是第一個問題。

It's a good question, Paul. And let me just say, we've never been unhappy with our lubes business. And the only real complaint that we made was that we weren't getting credit for the value of our lubes business. And so when we had conversations in the past about is to maximize shareholder value, is the lubes business better in someone else's portfolio. That was under the premise that the lubes business wasn't getting the proper valuation in our portfolio.

這是個好問題，保羅。我只想說，我們對我們的潤滑油業務從未感到不滿意。我們唯一真正的抱怨是，我們的潤滑油業務的價值沒有得到應有的認可。因此，當我們過去討論最大化股東價值時，潤滑油業務在別人的投資組合中是否更合適。前提是潤滑油業務在我們的投資組合中沒有得到適當的估值。

I think you can see over the last several quarters that the appreciation and the valuation of the lubes business has been gaining more attention in our portfolio lately and especially now with refining margins weakening, I think you're seeing a lot more appreciation for that business in our portfolio.

我認為你可以看到，在過去幾個季度裡，潤滑油業務的升值和估值在我們的投資組合中越來越受到關注，尤其是現在煉油利潤率下降，我認為你會看到該業務的升值幅度更大在我們的投資組合中。

So the answer to your question is, yes, we can see it as a core business in long-term. We continue to grow it. That's what our main focus is going to be. And as our -- as the stock and as the shareholders appreciate the value of that business, then yeah, we can continue to grow it and keep it for a while.

所以你問題的答案是，是的，我們可以將其視為長期的核心業務。我們將繼續發展它。這正是我們關注的重點。隨著我們的股票和股東對該業務的價值產生欣賞，那麼，是的，我們可以繼續發展它，並維持一段時間。

Yeah. Thank you. The second question is that a number of your peers that have specifically announced some kind of cost reduction programs, one of your peers that this morning just announced a $200 million of cost saving efforts.

是的。謝謝。第二個問題是，您的一些同行已經明確宣布了某種成本削減計劃，其中一位同行今天早上剛剛宣布了 2 億美元的成本節約計劃。

I know that you guys, obviously, that continue to work on in that space. Is there any number you can share over the next several years that your initiative that is there any area, major area that you're focusing that is going to drive down cost? And then if there is, could you quantify for us? Thank you.

我知道你們顯然會繼續在該領域努力工作。您能否分享未來幾年內您的計畫的具體數字，即您關注的哪些領域、哪些主要領域可以降低成本？如果有的話，您能為我們量化一下嗎？謝謝。

Yeah, Paul, good question. Obviously, as we go into a downturn, everyone is going to be worried about costs. I've already mentioned that our OpEx per barrel in refining is down [$0.10] versus a year ago. But Valerie is not finished yet and is continuing to work down those costs. I'll let her talk a little bit more about what she's doing there.

是的，保羅，這個問題問得好。顯然，隨著經濟陷入低迷，每個人都會擔心成本。我已經提到過，與一年前相比，我們每桶煉油的營運成本下降了 [0.10 美元]。但瓦萊麗尚未完成，她仍在繼續努力降低成本。我會讓她多談一點她在那裡做的事情。

Yeah. Again, we are continuing to push our OpEx through and focus on maintenance. A good portion of our operating expenses go towards maintenance and the activities that support our maintenance, staff and those activities. And as we get more reliable, we expect to continue to see those costs come off our books.

是的。再次，我們將繼續推動我們的營運支出並專注於維護。我們的大部分營運費用用於維護以及支援維護、員工和這些活動的活動。隨著我們變得越來越可靠，我們期望繼續看到這些成本從我們的帳簿上消失。

We're starting to see where we have more mature those programs faster, those sites in the West are producing very good OpEx, and we see that, that is going to go across the rest of the fleet. So in terms of an exact dollar amount, we will not -- we're not going to provide that. We have internal goals, but our goal first is $725 on a consistent basis.

我們開始看到，我們的專案在哪裡更加成熟更快，西方的那些站點正在產生非常好的營運支出，我們看到，這將惠及其餘的艦隊。所以就具體的美元金額而言，我們不會提供。我們有內部目標，但我們的首要目標是持續達到 725 美元。

Yeah. And that's refining, Paul. I'll just point out a couple of other things. I mean, we're working hard to reduce costs. That's part of our integration and optimization priority. But I can just point out a couple of things like in the lubes business that Matt just talked about. If you look at their OpEx, I think they're under-running $15 million this year versus last year. I think that's not by accident. It's by the efforts that have been going on and hitting the bottom line.

是的。這就是精煉，保羅。我只想指出另外幾點。我的意思是，我們正在努力降低成本。這是我們整合和優化重點的一部分。但我只能指出一些事情，像是馬特剛才談到的潤滑油業務。如果你看看他們的營運支出，我認為今年他們的營運支出比去年少了 1500 萬美元。我認為這不是偶然的。這是透過一直以來的努力以及觸及底線而實現的。

I think if you look at our G&A, we're running about $20 million this year below what we ran last year. And again, that's not by accident. That's all associated with the integration and optimization efforts that we've got going on.

我想，如果你看看我們的一般及行政開支，你會發現今年我們的開支比去年減少了約 2,000 萬美元。再說一遍，這並非偶然。這一切都與我們正在進行的整合和優化工作有關。

Midstream has got the same thing with the integration efforts that we have going on. And then, of course, renewables has the lowest OpEx per barrel this quarter that we've been able to demonstrate. So we're not going out there with a flashy program. But instead, we're trying to show in the bottom-line numbers what we're doing to reduce costs.

中游企業在我們正在進行的整合工作中也遇到了同樣的情況。當然，我們已經能夠證明，本季再生能源每桶的營運成本是最低的。因此，我們不會推出華而不實的計劃。但相反，我們正試圖用底線數字來表明我們為降低成本所做的努力。

Doug Leggate, Wolfe Research.

道格‧萊格特（Doug Leggate），沃爾夫研究公司。

Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Tim or I'm not sure who wants to take this one, but obviously, your market, your refining market is probably seeing some of the biggest changes you've seen in quite some time with Cenovus bringing back capacity with slightly your realized for Whiting running at full tilt.

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。提姆，或者我不確定誰想接這個，但顯然，你的市場，你的煉油市場可能正在經歷你在相當長一段時間內看到的一些最大的變化，Cenovus 的產能恢復了，而Whiting 的產能略有增加全速運轉。

And obviously, there's a lot of changes going on with TMX in terms of crude availability. So I guess I'm looking at the reset you gave us in your mid-cycle margin assumption some quarters ago on slide 8 of your latest deck. I just wonder how we should think about risking that in light of these changes. Are you still confident that this is a reasonable baseline? Or how would you think about the risk to that $15 gross margin assumption?

顯然，TMX 在原油供應方面正在發生許多變化。因此，我想我正在看您在幾個季度前在最新簡報的第 8 張投影片中給出的中期週期利潤率假設的重置。我只是想知道，鑑於這些變化，我們應該如何考慮承擔這種風險。您仍然相信這是一個合理的基線嗎？或者您如何看待 15 美元毛利率假設的風險？

Yes, Doug. Good to hear from you. Yeah, we're confident in our mid-cycle numbers. And remember, that's a cycle. And we know that there's going to be ups and downs in the cycle. And right now, we're below mid-cycle, as you're pointing out. But that doesn't change our view of the strengthening of the business that we've done in our refining business in particular. There is a lot going on. I'll let Steve talk a little bit about that. But the bottom line is we're still confident in our mid-cycle numbers. Steve, do you want to cover?

是的，道格。很高興收到你的來信。是的，我們對我們的中期數據充滿信心。請記住，這是一個循環。我們知道這個週期會有起伏。正如您所指出的，目前我們正處於週期中期。但這並沒有改變我們對加強煉油業務的看法。有很多事情正在發生。我讓史蒂夫稍微談論一下這個問題。但最重要的是我們仍然對我們的中期數據充滿信心。史蒂夫，你想掩護嗎？

Sure. Doug, this is Steve. Thanks for the question. You mentioned two things specifically. One, I think, relates to supply. And so I'll talk about that a little bit. First of all, Q4, we're heading into the obvious winter demand slump and seasonal driving coming off and refineries finishing maintenance.

當然。道格，這是史蒂夫。謝謝你的提問。您特別提到了兩件事。我認為，第一個與供應有關。我就稍微談一下這個。首先，在第四季度，我們正進入明顯的冬季需求低迷期，季節性駕駛即將結束，煉油廠也即將完成維修。

But when we look in 2025, we believe it will be closer to mid-cycle for a couple of reasons. And on a larger basis, we think there's a lot of puts and takes in terms of shutdown and then demand coming -- or capacity coming on to the tune of around 300,000 barrels net new capacity. But we think demand should outpace that. Obviously, timing matters. But we feel like we'll be in a normal balanced margin environment for 2025, which is around mid-cycle.

但當我們展望2025年時，我們認為由於以下幾個原因它將更接近中期。從更大範圍來看，我們認為在停產和需求增加方面存在很大的利弊 - 或者說產能增加，淨新增產能約為 30 萬桶。但我們認為需求應該會超過這個水準。顯然，時機很重要。但我們覺得，到 2025 年，也就是大約週期中期，我們將處於正常平衡的利潤環境。

You also mentioned TMX, and we've seen some impacts clearly there with regards to crude values. Just as an example, the dips have narrowed. And when you look out through next year, we think that, that that light to heavy dip kind of stands at around $12.50 to $15 range, obviously, depending on several things.

您還提到了 TMX，我們已經看到它對原油價值產生了一些明顯的影響。舉個例子，下降幅度已經縮小。展望明年，我們認為，從輕微到嚴重的下跌大概會在 12.50 美元到 15 美元的範圍內，這顯然取決於幾個因素。

By example, Q1 of 2025 on the strip looks like it's roughly $6 less than it was in terms of Q1 2024. But we also see that our position in the Pacific Northwest, our ability to have -- be close to the dock, have plenty of dock capacity, the ability to take multiple crudes as more barrels get out over the water, we will be in a good position to go compete for those barrels.

舉例來說，2025 年第一季的營收似乎比 2024 年第一季的營收低了約 6 美元。但我們也看到，我們在太平洋西北地區的地位，我們的能力——靠近碼頭，有足夠的碼頭容量，隨著越來越多的桶裝原油運出海面，我們有能力接收多種原油，我們將處於去爭奪那些桶子的好位置。

And then through the balance of next year, while those dips are slightly compressed until the production outruns pipeline capacity there at TMX, we will have some compression in those dips, and it will impact our Mid-Con and PARCO refineries. But again, we're well connected to many hubs, and we're working hard to optimize the crude slate and flexibility there. But as a lot, on balance, we believe that our 2025 is a bit more supportive towards mid-cycle. That's how we're calling it right now.

然後到明年的剩餘時間，雖然這些下降會略微壓縮，直到產量超過 TMX 的管道容量，但這些下降仍會受到一些壓縮，並將影響我們的 Mid-Con 和 PARCO 煉油廠。但同樣，我們與許多樞紐都有良好的連接，並且我們正在努力優化那裡的原油供應和靈活性。但總的來說，我們相信 2025 對中期週期的支援會更充分。我們現在就是這麼稱呼它的。

Yeah. I guess we're going to watch the dynamics, but I appreciate the confidence, and I hope you're right for sure. But my follow-up is on renewable diesel. And I guess it's just really specific to your portfolio mix. As the BTC goes away, at the end of this year and we have more of a CI-based credit system. How do you see your system set up in terms of take advantage of that or not the case?

是的。我想我們會觀察動態，但我很欣賞你的信心，我希望你肯定是對的。但我的後續關注點是再生柴油。我想這只是與您的投資組合具體相關的。隨著 BTC 的消失，在今年年底我們將擁有更多基於 CI 的信用體系。您如何看待您的系統設定是否能夠利用這一點？

Yeah. So I'll take that one as well. We're watching the BTC very closely as it goes away and the PTC comes on in a CI based. As you mentioned, we've continued to push very hard to get more CI or low CI feedstock in our kit through better sourcing our capability on the PTU and actually a few small tweaks in the plants.

是的。因此我也會選擇這個。我們正密切關注 BTC，因為它會消失，而 PTC 則會在 CI 中出現。正如您所提到的，我們一直在努力透過更好地獲取 PTU 的能力以及在工廠中進行一些小的調整來在我們的套件中獲取更多的 CI 或低 CI 原料。

And so we think we could compete with our current setup. We also have the ability to go take barrels to different markets that are not as dependent on low CI for that value, and we've been able to move barrels into Canada and some local markets as well where there has been some uplift.

因此我們認為我們可以憑藉當前的設定進行競爭。我們也能夠將石油桶運往不同的市場，這些市場對低 CI 的依賴程度不高，我們已經能夠將石油桶運往加拿大和一些已經出現一定提升的當地市場。

So there's some uncertainty heading into the first part of the year -- and we think that it's going to end up having to settle out with some more support from RINs. And so that's a bit of a how does that happen and when does that happen?

因此，今年上半年存在一些不確定性——我們認為，最終需要 RIN 提供更多支援才能解決。那麼這就有點兒像這是怎麼發生的以及什麼時候發生的了？

And then on the positive side associated with this, there'll be fewer imported finished barrels. So we think the supply structure and demand structure tighten up a bit that shows some supportive margin for 2025. But there's still a bit of uncertainty in the first part of the year, but we're watching it very closely, and we'll manage that risk carefully.

而從正面的一面來看，進口的成品桶數量將會減少。因此，我們認為供應結構和需求結構將略微收緊，為 2025 年帶來一定的支撐空間。但今年上半年仍存在一些不確定性，但我們正在密切關注，並會謹慎管理風險。

And Doug, that's, of course, commentary around the BTC and the PTC. But if you look at the overall renewable diesel factors end market, of course, we believe the LCFS credit prices are headed higher in 2025. I think that will be a tailwind for our business.

道格，這當然是有關 BTC 和 PTC 的評論。但如果你看看整體再生柴油因素終端市場，我們當然相信 2025 年 LCFS 信用價格會走高。我認為這對我們的業務來說將會是一個順風。

You know, the New Mexico LCFS program is -- is being finalized here over the next few months. And we think when that comes online here at the end of 2025, maybe the early 2026 that that will be a tailwind for us given our -- we'll be the only renewable diesel producer in New Mexico.

您知道，新墨西哥州 LCFS 計劃將在未來幾個月內完成。我們認為，當這個計畫在 2025 年底或 2026 年初上線時，這將是我們的順風，因為我們將成為新墨西哥州唯一的再生柴油生產商。

And we think overall RINs prices are going to be going up as well. So we've shown that even in these current bottom low cycle conditions, we can produce positive EBITDA, and we're positioned well for those tailwinds to show themselves next year and maybe the year after, too.

我們認為 RIN 的整體價格也將上漲。因此，我們已經證明，即使在目前處於週期底部的條件下，我們仍然可以實現正的 EBITDA，而且我們已做好準備，迎接明年乃至後年的有利形勢。

Neil Mehta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的尼爾梅塔 (Neil Mehta)。

Yeah. Good morning, Tim, and team. The first question is just around capital as we think about next year. This year, I think you guided to $875 million, of which $75 million is growth, $800 million sustaining. How do you think about some of those moving pieces as we go into 2025? And is this a reasonable run rate as we think about next year?

是的。早安，提姆和團隊。第一個問題是關於明年的資本問題。今年，我認為您預計的收入將達到 8.75 億美元，其中 7,500 萬美元是成長，8 億美元是維持。當我們進入 2025 年時，您如何看待這些變動因素？對於明年來說，這是一個合理的運行率嗎？

Neil, good morning. This is Atanas. Thank you for your question. I think this is a reasonable assumption over the next couple of years in that ZIP code of $800 million to $875 million, including some growth CapEx in it. So I think you're right.

尼爾，早安。這是阿塔納斯。感謝您的提問。我認為這是一個合理的假設，未來幾年該郵遞區號地區的資本支出將達到 8 億到 8.75 億美元，其中包括一些成長資本支出。所以我認為你是對的。

We're in the process of putting our budget together, Neil, as you know. So no official guidance at this time. We'll put that out in December like we normally do. But we're not seeing any major peak coming here next year. I just -- I think that's what Atanas is trying to signal, and we'll give you a better number here at the end of the year.

尼爾，正如你所知，我們正在製定預算。因此目前還沒有官方指引。我們將像往常一樣在 12 月發布該消息。但我們預計明年不會出現任何重大高峰。我只是——我認為這就是阿塔納斯想要表達的信號，我們會在年底給你一個更好的數字。

Perfect. Yes, that helps us frame it out. And then as we think about the midstream side of your business, can you just talk about priorities from here? And how do you see that as part of the business going forward? Is this a free cash flow engine? Or can it be a vehicle for growth? So big priorities around the midstream side of your business over the next year or so?

完美的。是的，這有助於我們將其框定出來。然後，當我們考慮業務的中游方面時，您能談談這裡的優先事項嗎？您如何看待這是未來業務發展的一部分？這是自由現金流引擎嗎？或者它能成為成長的工具嗎？那麼，在未來一年左右的時間裡，您業務中游的首要任務是什麼？

Yes, Neil, this is Steve. Thanks. I look after our midstream business as well. As part of the proposition of buying it in, we feel like there was an untapped opportunity there, and I think we're starting to see that. We really believe that there is utilization to go get, and we think there are some pieces of the kit that we can optimize or go add to really allow us to unlock the integrated value chain and operate our kits as such.

是的，尼爾，這是史蒂夫。謝謝。我還負責我們的中游業務。作為購買提議的一部分，我們覺得那裡有一個尚未開發的機會，我認為我們已經開始看到這一點了。我們確實相信可以利用這些組件，並且我們認為可以優化或添加一些套件組件，以真正讓我們解鎖整合價值鏈並以此方式操作我們的套件。

So we're focused on how do we go make sure that we're touching the molecules early and often and getting them on our system. Perfect example is things that we can unlock now because we are under one umbrella. Our Permian Southwest gathering asset, we're working and investing to go move more barrels from third-party or alternative modes of transport onto our system and helping that all the way through to our plants and in between the plants.

因此，我們專注於如何確保我們儘早並經常接觸分子並將它們納入我們的系統。完美的例子就是我們現在可以解鎖一些東西，因為我們都在同一個保護傘下。我們的二疊紀西南收集資產，我們正在努力和投資，將更多的桶從第三方或其他運輸方式轉移到我們的系統上，並幫助將其一直運送到我們的工廠和工廠之間。

And that's just one example that we see as an opportunity. So we think it is a growth engine, and we think that this is something we'll continue to focus on as well as improving our overall cost profile. And we believe that there are some things that we can do between the operating platforms in refining as well as midstream, where we can share the best practices and learn and do things, common solutions for common problems. But we're pretty excited about the opportunities ahead of us and what we can go do with the midstream sector.

這只是我們視為機會的一個例子。因此，我們認為這是一個成長引擎，我們認為這是我們將繼續關注的事情，同時改善我們的整體成本狀況。我們相信，我們可以在煉油和中游的營運平台之間做一些事情，分享最佳實踐，學習和做事，為共同的問題提供共同的解決方案。但我們對於眼前的機會以及我們在中游領域能取得的進展感到非常興奮。

Yes. And Neil, I would just chime in, too. We talked about buying in the HEP business a year ago. And one of the reasons was for the free cash flow accretion associated with that, that's going to pay us dividends now. The other one was for the growth, and that's what you're pointing out. This quarter, I think we had record pipeline volumes. Last quarter, I think we had record total volumes going through.

是的。尼爾，我也想附和一下。我們一年前就討論過收購 HEP 業務。其中一個原因是與此相關的自由現金流的增加，這將為我們帶來股息。另一個是為了成長，這就是你所指出的。我認為，本季我們的管道數量創下了歷史新高。上個季度，我認為我們的總處理量創下了歷史新高。

If you look at our run rate, our run rate is $50 million EBITDA higher than it was a year ago. And that's associated with not just higher tariffs, which we knew were coming, but also these higher volumes, lower op costs, as we've talked about and higher third-party volumes that go with that as well.

如果你看看我們的運行率，我們的運行率比一年前高出 5000 萬美元的 EBITDA。這不僅與我們知道即將到來的更高的關稅有關，而且還與更高的交易量、更低的營運成本有關，正如我們已經討論過的，以及隨之而來的更高的第三方交易量有關。

So we do think midstream is going to be a growth engine. We've talked a lot about lubes and how lubes has been a real bright spot for us over the last several years. I really believe that you're going to see the same thing in midstream, and you're going to see the same thing in marketing as we continue to grow those, what we call higher multiple businesses in our portfolio.

因此我們確實認為中游將成為成長引擎。我們討論了很多有關潤滑油的話題，以及潤滑油在過去幾年中如何成為我們的一個真正亮點。我真的相信，隨著我們繼續發展這些所謂的投資組合中的高倍數業務，你會在中游看到同樣的事情，你也會在行銷中看到同樣的事情。

Tim, the one quick follow-up on that is that -- when you talk about it as a growth engine, do you mean primarily organically? Or do you see the potential for bolt-on as well in midstream?

提姆，關於這一點，我們要快速跟進的是——當你談到它作為成長引擎時，你的意思是主要是有機成長嗎？或者您看到了中游也存在螺栓固定的潛力？

Well, our focus right now is organic. I mean, that's -- we've talked about that this past year as one of our priorities is internally focused reliability, internally focused integration and optimization. But I think over time, as we develop that foundation and really solidify it, I think there's going to be opportunities for modest inorganic opportunities for growth as well. So I would just say it's not our highest priority right now. Our highest priority is internal organic growth, but that is on the table for sure.

嗯，我們現在的重點是有機的。我的意思是，那是——我們在過去的一年裡討論過這個問題，我們的首要任務之一是內部關注的可靠性、內部關注的整合和優化。但我認為隨著時間的推移，隨著我們發展這個基礎並真正鞏固它，我認為也會有適度無機成長的機會。所以我只想說這不是我們現在的首要任務。我們最優先考慮的是內部有機成長，但這肯定是可行的。

Theresa Chen, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的 Theresa Chen。

Morning. Steve, I'd love to get some additional details on your comments about demand across your footprint by products and related to what you said earlier on expectations for demand outpacing supply over time, how does that translate to your specific markets, inland more niche areas plus the Pacific Northwest?

早晨。史蒂夫，我想進一步了解你對產品足跡需求的評論，以及你之前所說的隨著時間的推移需求超過供應的預期，這對你的特定市場、內陸更小眾的地區有何影響？

Yeah. Thanks, Theresa. Demand, again, everyone has been concerned about a structural issue with demand. What we've seen is there is not a structural issue with demand. It has been relatively flat and even up in some of the markets. The issue in terms of cracks have been associated with the additional supply on the market, which has come from the various things that we've already talked about.

是的。謝謝，特蕾莎。需求，再次，每個人都關心需求的結構性問題。我們看到需求並不存在結構性問題。在一些市場上，其銷量相對平穩，甚至有所上漲。裂縫問題與市場上的額外供應有關，這源自於我們已經討論過的各種原因。

We think in our markets that there are areas that are -- they have advantages, regional advantages where there's growth that's still happening, people are moving there, and we see that, that is an advantage that we can exploit. And we'll go continue to grow that through optimizing our midstream footprint and our branded put through our retail stations.

我們認為，在我們的市場中，有些地區具有優勢，有些區域具有優勢，這些地區仍在成長，人們正在向那裡遷移，我們認為，這是我們可以利用的優勢。我們將透過優化我們的中游足跡和透過我們的零售站投放的品牌來繼續發展這項業務。

And so we're pretty excited about the overall regions that we operate in. One of our largest growth areas that we've seen so far to date, as you mentioned, is in the Pacific Northwest, that's fertile hunting ground where we can look to optimize between the plants and that locale. And then also in the Southwest, we've seen good demand and good growth there, and we'll continue to fill out the other regions where we already have a high concentration of our branded play.

因此，我們對於我們經營的整體區域感到非常興奮。正如您所說，迄今為止我們最大的成長區域之一是太平洋西北地區，那裡是肥沃的狩獵場，我們可以在那裡實現工廠和該地區之間的最佳化。在西南地區，我們也看到了良好的需求和成長，我們將繼續填補我們品牌業務已經高度集中的其他地區。

Got it. And on that branded put, based on your execution and rollout thus far, how much of an incremental margin benefit does that bring? And is that sustainable over the medium-term? How should we think about that incremental financial uplift?

知道了。並且，根據您迄今為止的執行和推出，該品牌看跌期權能帶來多少增量保證金收益？中期來看這種狀況可持續嗎？我們該如何看待這種增量財務成長？

Yeah. So on a revenue replacement basis, when we go put a new site up versus a site that doesn't really fit in our portfolio, we see between 60% and 120% increase in overall volume over time, and they're in better locations. And so the margin structure continues to improve with better sites. We're not giving explicit guidance, but we're starting to see it in the run rate.

是的。因此，從收入替代的角度來看，當我們建立一個新站點，而不是一個不太適合我們投資組合的站點時，我們發現隨著時間的推移，整體交易量會增加60% 到120%，而且它們的位置更好。因此，隨著場地品質的提高，利潤結構將繼續改善。我們沒有給出明確的指導，但我們開始在運行率中看到它。

I think Tim mentioned earlier, the EBITDA run rate of between $75 million and $80 million, we believe is realistic based on what we've seen in 2024, and we think there's further opportunity. So higher margin, resilient and better volume locations, high-grading from a bulk to an unbranded to a branded outlet is really the strategy and the key to continue to unlock value.

我認為蒂姆之前提到過，EBITDA 運行率在 7500 萬美元至 8000 萬美元之間，我們認為根據我們在 2024 年看到的情況這是現實的，而且我們認為還有進一步的機會。因此，更高的利潤率、更有彈性、更好的銷售位置、從散裝到非品牌再到品牌專賣店的高級等級才是真正的策略，也是持續釋放價值的關鍵。

Jason Gabelman, TD Cowen.

傑森·加貝爾曼（Jason Gabelman），TD Cowen。

Morning. Thanks for taking my questions. One quick accounting one. It looks like cash flow was very strong, well above what's implied by your EBITDA numbers. So just wondering if there was a working capital benefit or something else going on with cash from ops.

早晨。感謝您回答我的問題。一個快速會計。看起來現金流非常強勁，遠高於 EBITDA 數字所暗示的水平。所以只是想知道是否有營運資金收益或其他與營運現金相關的事項。

Yeah, Jason, this is Atanas. That's an accurate observation. We did have a working capital tailwind in the winter -- over the summer months as we're working down inventory. So that helped us.

是的，傑森，這是阿塔納斯。這是一個準確的觀察。在冬季，我們確實擁有營運資金順風；在夏季，由於我們正在減少庫存。這對我們有幫助。

Okay. And then the other one, just thinking about position, and this has been touched on quite a bit on the call. But it sounds like part of the growth in retail is to secure demand outlets for that supply. But as we think about what's going on in California and refinery shutting down, I was hoping you could, one, talk about your ability to supply that state from both the New Mexico plant and the Washington plant. And then if there's an interest in kind of pushing the logistics further west to move product from your Rockies footprint.

好的。然後另一個，只是考慮位置，這在通話中已經被多次提及。但聽起來零售業成長的一部分是為了確保供應的需求管道。但是，當我們考慮加州正在發生的事情以及煉油廠的關閉時，我希望您可以先談談您從新墨西哥工廠和華盛頓工廠向該州供貨的能力。如果有興趣將物流進一步向西推進，將產品從落基山脈運送出去。

Yes, Jason, this is Tim. I'll jump in. I do think that the recent announcement in California and it's consistent with our long-term outlook for those supply-demand balances in California. And that is supporting our overall long-term strategy to be able to move barrels west. We've talked about this before, but of course, the Puget Sound refinery has the ability to make car gasoline and will benefit as the gasoline becomes short in California.

是的，傑森，這是提姆。我就跳進去。我確實認為加州最近宣布的這一消息與我們對加州供需平衡的長期展望是一致的。這支持了我們向西部運輸石油的整體長期策略。我們之前談過這個問題，但當然，普吉特海灣煉油廠有能力生產車用汽油，而且隨著加州汽油短缺，煉油廠將受益。

We've already been able to take some part in that market, and we'll hopefully be able to take more of it as the balances continue to go short on gasoline. But as you point out, our Woods Cross refinery supplies Las Vegas which gets half of its supply from California and our New Mexico refinery supplies Phoenix, which gets about half of its supply from California.

我們已經能夠在該市場中佔據一些份額，並且隨著汽油供應持續短缺，我們希望能夠佔據更多的份額。但正如您所指出的，我們的伍茲十字煉油廠為拉斯維加斯供應石油，而拉斯維加斯一半的供應來自加利福尼亞州，我們新墨西哥煉油廠為菲尼克斯供應石油，而菲尼克斯大約一半的供應來自加州。

So as the California gasoline production continues to reduce, we do stand to benefit by being able to place our barrels and take more of that market share in those regions. Even though they're not specifically in California, they are tied to the California market, and we believe that we're going to be beneficiaries of that effect.

因此，隨著加州汽油產量持續減少，我們確實可以從中受益，因為我們能夠將汽油放入這些地區，並佔據更多的市場份額。儘管他們的業務範圍並非專門在加州，但他們與加州市場息息相關，我們相信我們將從這種影響中受益。

Thank you and good morning. It looks like in the third quarter, the marketing volumes were down about 8% year-over-year, even though your site count was up 3%. Could you talk about some of the dynamics that caused that?

謝謝，早安。看起來，第三季的行銷量比去年同期下降了約 8％，儘管您的網站數量增加了 3％。您能談談導致這現象的一些原因嗎？

Yeah, Matt, this is Steve. This is really a timing issue where we're relieving our lower volume and our lower-margin sites and are high-grading with higher volume and higher-margin sites. They take a bit of time to ramp up, and we see that will come on. So this is really a timing issue in the volume. Like I said earlier, we're seeing growth in EBITDA and the margin, and that's a direct result of us high-grading the portfolio already.

是的，馬特，這是史蒂夫。這實際上是一個時間問題，我們正在釋放產量較低、利潤較低的站點，而對產量較高、利潤較高的站點進行高等級管理。他們需要一點時間來提升自己，我們看到這一點將會實現。所以這實際上是一個時間問題。正如我之前所說，我們看到 EBITDA 和利潤率都在成長，這是我們已經對投資組合進行高評級的直接結果。

Sounds good, right? The margins did improve. Okay. And then could you talk about any expectations for refining capture rates into the fourth quarter here? I think you posted 48% capture in Q3. It seems like higher RINs could be a small headwind to your indicator, but then there might be tailwinds from areas like butane blending, crude dips and market structure. So how do you see refining capture shaking out in the fourth quarter?

聽起來不錯，對吧？利潤率確實提高了。好的。那麼您能談談對第四季度煉油捕獲率的預期嗎？我認為您在第三季的捕獲率為 48%。看起來較高的 RIN 可能會對您的指標造成小幅阻力，但丁烷混合、原油下跌和市場結構等領域可能會帶來順風。那麼您認為第四季煉油業將如何發展呢？

Yeah. We're not guiding necessarily on capture, but there are a few trends that we're watching. One is that, as I mentioned earlier, the light to heavy index is more narrow than we've traditionally seen. And one thing that will be -- that we are watching, we do have our El Dorado plant in turnaround. And as you know, that's a big heavy crude producer.

是的。我們不一定會對捕獲進行指導，但我們正在觀察一些趨勢。一是，正如我之前提到的，輕重指數範圍比我們傳統上看到的要窄。我們正在關注的一件事是，我們的 El Dorado 工廠確實正在扭轉虧損。如你所知，這是一家大型重質原油生產商。

Now, butane blending, there may be some offsets there. And we think that as we continue to go push our jet production, that is an area that has been favorable to us and maximizing that, extending the jet value chain and then continuing down the path of producing as much premium as we can and extending it through our retail value chain and also our heavy oil value chain and upgrading our bottoms from wholesale to retail.

現在，丁烷混合可能會有一些抵消。我們認為，隨著我們繼續推動噴射機的生產，這是一個對我們有利的領域，我們可以最大限度地利用這一優勢，延長噴射機的價值鏈，然後繼續生產盡可能多的優質飛機，並延長它通過我們的零售價值鍊和重油價值鏈，並將我們的底部從批發升級到零售。

Those are the things we'll continue to focus on calling it right now, I don't think we're ready to call it, but those are the things that we can take advantage of and continue to drive.

這些都是我們現在將繼續關注的事情，我認為我們還沒有準備好稱呼它們，但這些都是我們可以利用並繼續推動的事情。

Joe Laetsch, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Joe Laetsch。

Hey, good morning. Thanks for the time. Just one question for me this morning. So on the lubricant side, I know you talked about organic growth. But on the inorganic side, I think lubricants is a pretty fragmented market. Are there opportunities to grow inorganically here? Or is it really just more of a focus on the organic side? Thank you.

嘿，早安。感謝您的時間。今天早上我只想問一個問題。因此，在潤滑劑方面，我知道您談到了有機成長。但在無機方面，我認為潤滑劑是一個相當分散的市場。這裡有無機成長的機會嗎？或者它實際上只是更加註重有機方面？謝謝。

Thanks, Joe. It's Matt here. I appreciate the question. And yeah, one of the things if you look back across the past couple of years, we've really focused internally to ensure that we're in the best place to organically build a foundation, a solid foundation, and you're seeing that track record of success.

謝謝，喬。我是馬特。我很感謝你提出這個問題。是的，如果你回顧過去幾年，你會發現，我們確實專注於內部發展，以確保我們處於最佳位置，並有機地建立堅實的基礎，你會看到成功的記錄。

But as we've established looking forward, I think that this is an excellent opportunity to look out at our portfolio, see where we have segment strengths, where we have some gaps where there might be some really nice bolt-on acquisitions. And we'll look at those and consider them for growth in the future.

但正如我們已經確定的，展望未來，我認為這是一個絕佳的機會來審視我們的投資組合，看看我們在哪些方面有優勢，哪些方面存在差距，哪些方面可能存在一些非常好的附加收購。我們將研究這些問題並考慮它們未來的發展。

So I think that it's absolutely plausible to see something like that, and we'll keep you informed as and when we make progress or choose to go down that path in the future.

所以我認為看到這樣的事情是絕對有可能的，當我們取得進展或選擇在未來走這條路時，我們會隨時向你們通報。

Yeah. As you know, Joe, as you pointed out, the industry is fairly fragmented. We have been an industry consolidator in the past, right, when we put PCLI and Sonneborn and Red Giant together. We've needed the last few years to build our foundation and to integrate and optimize that portfolio. But as Matt mentioned, if we find -- and we are looking for some opportunities to continue to enhance that portfolio, we would certainly consider.

是的。正如喬，您知道，正如您所指出的，這個行業相當分散。當我們將 PCLI、Sonneborn 和 Red Giant 合併在一起時，我們過去一直是行業整合者。我們需要過去幾年的時間來奠定基礎並整合和優化投資組合。但正如馬特所提到的，如果我們發現——並且我們正在尋找一些機會來繼續增強該投資組合，我們肯定會考慮。

I am now turning the floor back over to Tim for any closing remarks.

現在我將發言權交還給提姆，請他做最後發言。

Thank you, Novi. In summary, our third quarter results demonstrate the earnings power of our diversified portfolio. We are focused on executing our strategic priorities, and these business improvements are growing the bottom line of our Midstream, Marketing and Lubricants and Specialties businesses.

謝謝你，諾維。總而言之，我們第三季的業績證明了我們多元化投資組合的獲利能力。我們專注於執行我們的策略重點，這些業務改進正在提高我們的中游、行銷以及潤滑油和特殊產品業務的獲利能力。

In our Refining and Renewables segments, we're focused on what we can control during these challenging market conditions. Both segments are delivering better turnarounds, reliability and lower operating costs to drive solid performance in below mid-cycle conditions. All of these are indicative of the hard work and commitment of our employees executing our plan.

在我們的煉油和再生能源領域，我們專注於在這些充滿挑戰的市場條件下我們能夠控制的事情。兩個部門均實現了更好的周轉率、可靠性和更低的營運成本，以在低於中期週期的條件下實現穩健的表現。所有這些都表明了我們的員工為執行我們的計劃所付出的辛勤工作和承諾。

In short, our focus over the past few years is working, and our business and our balance sheet are much stronger than before. Looking ahead, our priorities remain the same: to, one, improve our reliability; two, to integrate and optimize our new portfolio of assets; and three, return excess cash to our shareholders. Thank you for joining our call and have a great day.

簡而言之，我們過去幾年的重點是有效的，我們的業務和資產負債表比以前強勁得多。展望未來，我們的首要任務保持不變：第一，提高我們的可靠性；二、整合和優化我們的新資產組合；第三，將多餘的現金回饋給股東。感謝您加入我們的電話會議並祝您有愉快的一天。

Thank you. This does conclude today's teleconference. Please disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。請立即斷開您的線路，祝您有美好的一天。