HF Sinclair Corp (DINO) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to HF Sinclair Corporation's fourth-quarter 2024 conference call and webcast. Hosting the call today is Tim Go, Chief Executive Officer of HF Sinclair. He is joined by Atanas Atanasov, Chief Financial Officer; Steve Ledbetter, EVP of Commercial; Valerie Pompa, EVP of Operations; and Matt Joyce, SVP of Lubricants and Specialties.

歡迎參加 HF Sinclair Corporation 2024 年第四季電話會議和網路廣播。今天電話會議的主持人是 HF Sinclair 的執行長 Tim Go。與他一同出席的還有財務長 Atanas Atanasov； Steve Ledbetter，商業執行副總裁； Valerie Pompa，營運執行副總裁；以及潤滑油和特種產品資深副總裁Matt Joyce。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Please note that this conference is being recorded, and it is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Craig Biery, Vice President, Investor relations. Craig, you may begin.

請注意，本次會議正在錄音，現在我很高興將發言權交給投資人關係副總裁 Craig Biery。克雷格，你可以開始啦。

Thank you, Christa. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to HF Sinclair Corporation's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings call. This morning, we issued a press release announcing results for the quarter ending December 31, 2024. If you would like a copy of the earnings press release, you may find it on our website at hfsinclair.com. Before we proceed with remarks, please note the safe harbor disclosure statement in today's press release.

謝謝你，克里斯塔。大家早安，歡迎參加 HF Sinclair Corporation 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天上午，我們發布了一份新聞稿，宣布了截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的季度業績。如果您想要一份收益新聞稿，您可以在我們的網站 hfsinclair.com 上找到。在我們繼續發表評論之前，請注意今天新聞稿中的安全港披露聲明。

In summary, such statements made regarding management expectations, judgments or predictions are forward-looking statements. These statements are intended to be covered under the safe harbor provisions of federal securities laws. There are many factors that could cause results to differ from expectations, including those noted in our SEC filings. The call also may include discussion of non-GAAP measures. Please see the earnings press release for reconciliations to GAAP financial measures.

總之，關於管理階層期望、判斷或預測的此類陳述是前瞻性陳述。這些聲明旨在受到聯邦證券法的安全港條款的保護。有許多因素可能導致結果與預期不同，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中指出的因素。電話會議也可能包括對非公認會計準則指標的討論。請參閱收益新聞稿以了解與 GAAP 財務指標的對帳情況。

Also, please note any time-sensitive information provided on today's call may no longer be accurate at the time of any webcast replay or re-reading of the transcript.

此外，請注意，今天電話會議中提供的任何時間敏感資訊在網路直播重播或重新閱讀記錄時可能不再準確。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Tim.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給提姆。

Good morning, everyone. Our full year 2024 financial and operational results highlight the strength and resiliency of our diversified portfolio, and 2024 was a good year to prove that out as we navigated challenging macroeconomic conditions in refining. Our results also demonstrate the success we are delivering on executing our three key strategic priorities. First, on improving reliability. Our heavy turnaround workload in 2024 was completed on schedule and on budget, leading to increased utilization and higher refinery through-puts year-over-year.

大家早安。我們 2024 年全年的財務和營運表現凸顯了我們多元化投資組合的實力和彈性，而 2024 年是證明這一點的好年份，因為我們在煉油領域應對了嚴峻的宏觀經濟條件。我們的業績也證明了我們在執行三大關鍵策略重點方面的成功。第一，提高可靠性。我們 2024 年繁重的周轉工作已按計劃和預算完成，從而導致利用率和煉油廠產量同比增加。

I'm also pleased to report that we achieved our best-ever results for Personal Safety 2024, beating our old record by over 40% and positioning all of our assets to continue operating safely and reliably. Second, optimization and integration helped us achieve record EBITDA in both our marketing and midstream businesses. And our Lubricants and Specialties business generated another strong year of earnings. We also benefited from lower SG&A expenses year-over-year. Third, our commitment to shareholder returns.

我還很高興地報告，我們在 2024 年個人安全方面取得了有史以來最好的成績，比舊紀錄高出 40% 以上，並且我們所有資產都可以繼續安全可靠地運行。第二，優化整合助力我們在行銷和中游業務上實現創紀錄的EBITDA。我們的潤滑油和特種產品業務又取得了強勁的獲利年度。我們也受惠於銷售、一般及行政開支年減。第三，我們對股東回報的承諾。

We manage our portfolio of assets to generate strong cash flows through the cycle and are pleased to have returned over $1 billion to shareholders in 2024 through both dividends and share repurchases, all while maintaining a strong balance sheet and liquidity position. All of these examples are proof points that our strategy is working. Now let me cover our segment highlights.

我們管理我們的資產組合，以在整個週期內產生強勁的現金流，並很高興在 2024 年透過股息和股票回購向股東返還了超過 10 億美元，同時保持了強勁的資產負債表和流動性狀況。所有這些例子都證明我們的策略是有效的。現在讓我來介紹一下我們的精彩片段。

In refining, for 2024, our annual adjusted operating expenses were lowered to $7.98 per throughput barrel through lean efforts and liability, a reduction of $0.37 per barrel year-over-year and setting us on the path towards achieving our target of $7.25 per throughput barrel. We set annual records for premium gasoline production at Woods Cross, jet production at Puget Sound in hydrogen production at Artesia amongst other individual site records.

在煉油方面，到 2024 年，透過精益努力和責任，我們的年度調整後營運費用降低至每桶 7.98 美元，同比減少每桶 0.37 美元，並使我們朝著實現每桶 7.25 美元的目標邁進。我們創下了伍茲克羅斯優質汽油產量、普吉特海灣噴射機產量、阿蒂西亞氫氣產量等個別站點的年度記錄。

In renewables, for 2024, we achieved significant milestones of reducing our annual operating expenses per gallon, 24% year-over-year while increasing our utilization and sales volumes by 19% year-over-year through improved reliability and optimization efforts. Excluding the $20 million end of year charge related to drawdown of higher cost inventory, our renewables business would have achieved significant positive fourth quarter EBITDA.

在再生能源領域，到 2024 年，我們將實現重要的里程碑，即透過提高可靠性和優化工作，將每加侖年度營運費用降低 24%，同時將利用率和銷售量提高 19%。除去與高成本庫存減少有關的 2,000 萬美元年終費用，我們的再生能源業務在第四季度將實現顯著的正 EBITDA。

While the margin environment was challenging in 2024, we focused on the things we could control such as increasing our low CI feedstock mix through our pre-treatment unit, improving our hydrogen availability through our reliability efforts and leveraging our commercial strategy to strengthen the earnings power of the business.

雖然 2024 年的利潤環境充滿挑戰，但我們專注於我們能夠控制的事情，例如透過預處理裝置增加低 CI 原料組合、透過可靠性努力提高氫氣可用性以及利用我們的商業策略來增強業務的盈利能力。

Our Marketing segment for 2024 delivered record annual EBITDA of $75 million, a 23% increase over 2023. We also grew our supply branded footprint by a net of 87 sites during 2024, demonstrating our commitment to grow this business and increase the percentage of branded wholesale volumes across our refining system.

我們 2024 年的行銷部門實現了創紀錄的年度 EBITDA 7,500 萬美元，比 2023 年成長 23%。2024 年，我們還將供應品牌足跡淨增加了 87 個站點，這表明我們致力於發展此項業務並增加整個煉油系統中品牌批發量的百分比。

We continue to see strategic value in growing and integrating the DINO brand into our portfolio as it provides a long-term outlet with margin uplift for our refining barrels. Looking forward, we expect to grow our number of branded sites by 10% annually. In Lubricants & Specialties, we delivered another strong year of earnings with $330 million of adjusted EBITDA, even with $45 million of FIFO headwinds.

我們繼續看到發展 DINO 品牌並將其整合到我們的產品組合中的策略價值，因為它為我們的精煉桶提供了長期的銷售管道並提高了利潤率。展望未來，我們預計品牌網站的數量將每年增長 10%。在潤滑油和特種產品領域，儘管面臨 4,500 萬美元的 FIFO 逆風，我們仍取得了另一年強勁的獲利表現，調整後 EBITDA 達 3.3 億美元。

Our results were driven by strong sales volumes, product mix optimization across our finished products portfolio and continued base oil integration. In our Midstream business, we delivered record annual adjusted EBITDA of $447 million, up 14% year-over-year and record total volumes up 7% year-over-year, highlighting the value of simplifying our corporate structure and capturing synergies from the buy-in of HEP.

我們的業績得益於強勁的銷售量、成品組合的優化以及持續的基礎油整合。在我們的中游業務中，我們實現了創紀錄的年度調整後 EBITDA 4.47 億美元，年增 14%，總量同比增長 7%，突顯了簡化公司結構和從 HEP 收購中獲得協同效應的價值。

Looking forward, we remain committed to growing this business and believe there is more low-hanging fruit for integrating and optimizing our midstream and refining businesses. The strong performances of these three non-refining segments demonstrate the strength and resiliency of our diversified portfolio. During 2024, we returned over $1 billion to shareholders through share repurchases and dividends. Since the Sinclair acquisition in March 2022, we have returned over $4 billion in cash to shareholders and have reduced our share count by over 57 million shares, which represents 71% of the shares we issued for both the Sinclair and HEP transactions.

展望未來，我們仍致力於發展這項業務，並相信整合和優化我們的中游和煉油業務將有更多唾手可得的成果。這三個非煉油部門的強勁表現證明了我們多元化投資組合的實力和彈性。2024 年，我們透過股票回購和股利向股東返還了超過 10 億美元。自 2022 年 3 月收購 Sinclair 以來，我們已向股東返還了超過 40 億美元的現金，並減少了超過 5,700 萬股的股份，佔 Sinclair 和 HEP 交易中發行股份的 71%。

As of December 31, 2024, we had approximately $800 million outstanding on our share repurchase authorization, and we remain committed to our long-term cash return strategy and long-term pay-out ratio while maintaining a strong balance sheet and investment-grade credit rating. Today, we also announced that our Board of Directors declared a regular quarterly dividend of $0.50 per share payable on March 20, 2025, to holders of record on March 6, 2025.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，我們的股票回購授權未償還金額約為 8 億美元，我們將繼續致力於我們的長期現金回報策略和長期派息率，同時保持強勁的資產負債表和投資級信用評級。今天，我們也宣布，董事會宣布向 2025 年 3 月 6 日登記在冊的股東派發每股 0.50 美元的定期季度股息，將於 2025 年 3 月 20 日支付。

Looking forward, we remain focused on our strategies to improve reliability, optimize and integrate our portfolio and return capital to shareholders, which we believe will drive continued profitable growth and value accretion for our shareholders.

展望未來，我們將繼續專注於提高可靠性、優化和整合我們的投資組合以及向股東返還資本的策略，我們相信這將推動我們的股東持續實現獲利成長和價值增值。

We are also encouraged by the recent uptick in our refining indicator margins and believe we are well positioned to capture the anticipated rebound in cracks during this driving season.

我們也對近期煉油指標利潤率的上升感到鼓舞，並相信我們有能力抓住這一駕駛季節預期的裂縫反彈。

With that, let me turn the call over to Atanas.

說完這些，讓我把電話轉給阿塔納斯。

Thank you, Tim, and good morning, everyone. Let's begin by reviewing HF Sinclair's financial highlights. Today, we reported fourth quarter net loss attributable to HF Sinclair shareholders of $214 million or negative $1.14 per share. These results reflect special items that collectively decreased net income by $23 million.

謝謝你，提姆，大家早安。讓我們先回顧一下 HF Sinclair 的財務亮點。今天，我們報告稱，第四季度歸屬於 HF Sinclair 股東的淨虧損為 2.14 億美元，即每股負 1.14 美元。這些結果反映出特殊項目導致淨收入總計減少 2,300 萬美元。

Excluding these items, adjusted net loss for the fourth quarter was $191 million or negative $1.02 per diluted share compared to adjusted net income of $165 million or $0.87 per diluted share for the same period in 2023. Adjusted EBITDA for the fourth quarter was $28 million compared to $428 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.

除這些項目外，第四季度調整後淨虧損為 1.91 億美元或每股攤薄虧損 1.02 美元，而 2023 年同期調整後淨收入為 1.65 億美元或每股攤薄虧損 0.87 美元。第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 2,800 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為 4.28 億美元。

In our refining segment, fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA was negative $169 million compared to $276 million in the fourth quarter of 2023. This decrease was principally driven by lower adjusted refinery gross margins in both the West and Mid-Con regions as a result of high global supply of transportation fuels across the industry and lower refined product sales volumes. Crude oil charge averaged 562,000 barrels per day for the fourth quarter compared to 614,000 barrels per day in the fourth quarter of 2023.

在我們的煉油部門，第四季調整後的 EBITDA 為負 1.69 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 2.76 億美元。下降的主要原因是，由於全球運輸燃料供應量高且成品油銷售量下降，西部和中西部地區調整後的煉油廠毛利率下降。第四季原油平均消耗量為每天 562,000 桶，而 2023 年第四季為每天 614,000 桶。

The Crude charge declined in the fourth quarter of 2024, primarily as a result of the turnaround at our El Dorado refinery and weaker market conditions. In our Renewables segment, we reported adjusted EBITDA of negative $9 million for the fourth quarter compared to negative $3 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. This decrease was principally due to the drawdown of high-priced inventory, resulting in a $20 million increase to cost of sales in the fourth quarter of 2024.

2024 年第四季原油價格下降，主要原因是我們的 El Dorado 煉油廠的經營狀況好轉以及市場條件疲軟。在我們的再生能源部門，我們報告第四季度的調整後 EBITDA 為負 900 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季的調整後 EBITDA 為負 300 萬美元。這一下降主要是由於高價庫存的​​減少，導致 2024 年第四季銷售成本增加 2,000 萬美元。

Total sales volumes were 62 million gallons for the fourth quarter of 2024 as compared to 63 million gallons for the fourth quarter of 2023. Our Marketing segment reported EBITDA of $21 million for the fourth quarter compared to $9 million for the fourth quarter of 2023.

2024 年第四季的總銷售量為 6,200 萬加侖，而 2023 年第四季的總銷售量為 6,300 萬加侖。我們的行銷部門報告第四季的 EBITDA 為 2,100 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季的 EBITDA 為 900 萬美元。

This increase was primarily driven by higher margins in the fourth quarter of 2024. Our Lubricants and Specialties segment reported adjusted EBITDA of $70 million for the fourth quarter compared to adjusted EBITDA of $57 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. This increase was primarily driven by a decrease in FIFO charge from $30 million in the fourth quarter of 2023 to $2 million in the fourth quarter of 2024.

這一增長主要得益於 2024 年第四季利潤率的提高。我們的潤滑油和特種產品部門報告第四季度調整後 EBITDA 為 7,000 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 5,700 萬美元。這一成長主要是由於 FIFO 費用從 2023 年第四季的 3,000 萬美元減少至 2024 年第四季的 200 萬美元。

The FIFO charge in both periods were driven by the consumption of high-priced feedstock inventory. Our Midstream segment reported adjusted EBITDA of $114 million in the fourth quarter compared to $110 million in the fourth quarter of last year.

兩個期間的先進先出費用都是由高價原料庫存的消耗所推動的。我們中游部門第四季調整後的 EBITDA 為 1.14 億美元，去年同期為 1.1 億美元。

This increase was primarily driven by higher revenues from higher tariffs in the fourth quarter of 2024. Net cash used by operations totaled $141 million in the fourth quarter which included $154 million of turnaround spend. HF Sinclair's capital expenditures totaled $173 million for the fourth quarter.

這一增長主要得益於 2024 年第四季關稅上調帶來的收入增加。第四季經營活動所用淨現金總計 1.41 億美元，其中包括 1.54 億美元的周轉支出。HF Sinclair 第四季的資本支出總計 1.73 億美元。

As of December 31, 2024, HF Sinclair's total liquidity stood at approximately $3.3 billion which includes a cash balance of $800 million, our undrawn $1.65 billion unsecured credit facility and $850 million availability on the HEP credit facility. As of December 31, we have $2.7 billion of debt outstanding with a debt-to-cap ratio of 22% or net debt-to-cap ratio of 50%, On January 23, 2025, HF Sinclair issued an aggregate principal amount of $1.4 billion of senior notes, consisting of $650 million of 5.75% senior notes due 2031 and $750 million of 6.25% senior notes due 2035.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，HF Sinclair 的總流動資金約為 33 億美元，其中包括 8 億美元的現金餘額、16.5 億美元未提取的無擔保信貸額度以及 8.5 億美元的 HEP 信貸額度可用金額。截至 12 月 31 日，我們有 27 億美元的未償還債務，債務與資本比率為 22% 或淨債務與資本比率為 50%。 5% 優先票據。

We used net proceeds from the notes to repay all $350 million in outstanding borrowings under the HEP credit facility and to fund approximately $850 million in tenders and redemptions of our 2026 senior notes and $150 million in tenders of our 2027 senior notes. This extended our debt maturity profile while lowering our weighted average interest expense.

我們利用票據的淨收益償還了 HEP 信貸安排下所有 3.5 億美元的未償還借款，並為我們的 2026 年高級票據的投標和贖回提供約 8.5 億美元的資金，以及為我們的 2027 年高級票據的投標提供 1.5 億美元的資金。這延長了我們的債務期限，同時降低了我們的加權平均利息支出。

Let's go through some guidance items. With respect to capital spending for full year 2025, we expect to spend approximately $775 million in sustaining capital, including turnaround and catalysts. This is down $25 million from 2024 and includes a non-refining and specialties -- lubricants and specialties turnaround in 2025.

讓我們來看看一些指導事項。對於 2025 年全年的資本支出，我們預計將花費約 7.75 億美元用於維持資本，包括扭虧為盈和催化劑。這比 2024 年下降了 2,500 萬美元，其中包括 2025 年非煉油和特種產品——潤滑油和特種產品的轉變。

In addition, we expect to spend $100 million in growth capital investments across our business segments. For the first quarter of 2025, we expect to run between 580,000 and 620,000 barrels per day of crude oil in our refining segment, which reflects the planned turnaround at our Tulsa Refinery.

此外，我們預計將向各個業務部門投入 1 億美元的成長資本投資。2025 年第一季度，我們預計煉油廠每天生產 58 萬至 62 萬桶原油，這反映了我們塔爾薩煉油廠的計畫轉變。

We're now ready to take some questions from the audience.

我們現在準備好回答觀眾的一些問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Manav Gupta, UBS.

瑞銀的 Manav Gupta。

Good morning guys. I'm just trying to understand, look, the West Coast market looks a lot tighter given all the unplanned downtime we are overseeing. So help us understand your leverage to the West Coast market, whether it's through Puget Sound or (inaudible) or which other refineries that you have that can supply to markets which are linked to the West Coast crack.

大家早安。我只是想知道，考慮到我們正在監督的所有計劃外停機時間，西海岸市場看起來要緊張得多。因此，請幫助我們了解您對西海岸市場的影響力，無論是透過普吉特海灣還是（聽不清楚）或您還有哪些其他煉油廠可以向與西海岸裂解相關的市場供應原油。

Hey Manav, this is Steve for the question. Yes, we're watching the market on the West Coast as recent unplanned events and heavy turnaround season have started and the fundamentals are improving. We think that that helps the overall market balance for not only our Puget Sound refinery in the Pacific Northwest, but we like to say that we can touch the south side of the PADD 5 from multiple points.

嘿，Manav，我是 Steve，來回答這個問題。是的，我們正在關注西海岸的市場，因為最近意外事件和繁忙的周轉季節已經開始，基本面正在改善。我們認為，這不僅有助於我們位於太平洋西北地區的普吉特海灣煉油廠的整體市場平衡，而且我們可以從多個點觸及 PADD 5 的南側。

We can come from the Salt Lake Valley down our integrated UNF pipeline into Vegas and out of our Navajo, Artesia refinery up into Phoenix. So we're seeing the benefit there, and we look to take advantage of that as this unfolds.

我們可以從鹽湖谷沿著綜合 UNF 管道進入拉斯維加斯，然後從納瓦霍、阿蒂西亞煉油廠出來到達菲尼克斯。所以我們看到了其中的好處，並且希望能夠充分利用它。

And Manav, I would just say -- this is Tim and I would just say, we've talked about how part of our overall strategy is to be able to move barrels west to take advantage of what we perceive to be a gasoline shortage long term in that area. And so that strategy is paying out as we see this heavy turnaround season and some unplanned events going on right now. .

我想說的是，馬納夫 (Manav) —— 我是蒂姆 (Tim)，我們已經討論過我們的總體戰略的一部分是如何將石油運往西部，以利用我們認為的該地區長期存在的汽油短缺。因此，我們看到目前這個艱難的轉折季節和一些計劃外事件正在發生，而這一策略正在取得成效。。

Perfect. A quick follow-up. You -- when you did Sinclair deal, again, part of it was trying to grow the marketing business. Help us understand a little more what's going on over there? Is it going to be more organic? Or are you looking at some small bolt-on opportunities and your plans to grow your marketing business?

完美的。快速跟進。當您與 Sinclair 達成交易時，部分目的是為了拓展行銷業務。能幫助我們進一步了解那裡發生的事嗎？它會變得更有機嗎？或者您正在尋找一些小型的附加機會和發展行銷業務的計劃？

Yeah. Again, this is Steve. We see that, that is still one of the largest yet untapped value elements of the Sinclair acquisition. We're making good progress. As Tim mentioned in the prepared remarks, we put on 87 net stores.

是的。再說一次，我是史蒂夫。我們看到，這仍然是 Sinclair 收購案中尚未開發的最大價值元素之一。我們正在取得良好進展。正如提姆在準備好的演講中所提到的，我們開設了 87 家網店。

We have another signed 152 that we look to come on in the next -- first half of the year or through the third quarter. We believe that that branded put is an important, sustainable aspect, and we're seeing high demand for it.

我們已經簽署了另外 152 份協議，預計今年上半年或第三季完成。我們認為，品牌看跌期權是一個重要且可持續的方面，而且我們看到對它的需求很高。

So accelerating that is important through our organic growth program. When we think about inorganic, there's nothing on the slate at this point. We'll look at things, but we really believe we can fill out our market predominantly through our organic growth in the wholesale marketing.

因此，透過我們的有機成長計劃來加速這一進程非常重要。當我們思考無機物時，此時石板上什麼都沒有。我們會觀察各種情況，但我們確實相信，我們可以主要透過批發行銷的有機成長來填補我們的市場。

And again, we're starting to see the benefits of that and looking to grow that from between 5% and 10% year-over-year.

而且，我們開始看到這樣做的好處，並希望實現年增 5% 至 10%。

Ryan Todd, Piper Sandler.

瑞恩·托德，派珀·桑德勒。

Thanks. Maybe if I could ask one on the lubes business. First, in the last couple of quarters, it's been a little bit weaker, generally below what you would expect as the mid-cycle earnings power of the business. Can you maybe talk about how you view the backdrop, like the macro backdrop flows business going forward? And should we get back to that $350 million run rate level here in 2025?

謝謝。也許我可以問一個有關潤滑油業務的人。首先，在過去幾個季度裡，它的獲利能力略顯疲軟，整體低於人們對該企業中期獲利能力的預期。您能否談談您如何看待背景，例如未來的宏觀背景流業務？我們是否應該在 2025 年回到 3.5 億美元的運行率水準？

Sure, Ryan. It's Matt Joyce here. if we look at it, the macro backdrop of the lubricants business in 2024, you saw similar to what we've experienced on the refining side, a lot of compression on the base oil markets, which still swing a fairly big part of the business in our portfolio. And the team has done pretty nicely to manage through that -- what we would consider a down cycle in the base oil market over the past couple of quarters. We've seen subdued -- and actually, we're now seeing that turn a bit, and we're encouraged by what we see going forward from that perspective.

當然，瑞安。我是馬特喬伊斯。如果我們看一下 2024 年潤滑油業務的宏觀背景，您會看到與我們在煉油方面經歷的情況類似，基礎油市場受到很大的壓縮，而基礎油市場仍然影響著我們投資組合中相當大的部分業務。並且團隊很好地應對了這一情況——我們認為過去幾季基礎油市場處於下行週期。我們看到了低迷——實際上，我們現在看到了一點轉變，從這個角度來看，我們對未來的發展感到鼓舞。

We've also seen subdued demand just in general, in our European businesses. That market has been slower than normal. And we've seen steady offtakes in North America, and we're actually growing our positions in our businesses in the US, in particular, off of a very nice base that we've established over the past several years. So we see our business continuing to perform, and I think we'll see, if you look at excluding FIFO number, it's a 3.75 result. So again, the underlying performance of this business is still very healthy and trending above mid-cycle.

我們也發現歐洲業務的整體需求低迷。那個市場的發展一直比正常情況慢。我們在北美的銷售量保持穩定，而且我們在美國的業務地位實際上正在不斷提高，特別是在過去幾年我們建立的良好基礎上。因此，我們看到我們的業務繼續表現良好，而且我認為，如果排除 FIFO 數字，我們會看到 3.75 的結果。因此，該業務的基本表現仍然非常健康，趨勢高於中期。

Yeah, Ryan, this is Tim. I'll just chime in too. I mean Matt said it, despite even the challenges and headwinds that all businesses face that Matt just described. If you factor in the $45 million of FFO impacts, we actually were in a kind of an underlying business rate of $375 million, which would have been a record for 2024. So we still believe the business is strong. Seasonally, fourth quarter is generally the weakest quarter and we're seeing first quarter pick back up again like we would expect.

是的，瑞安，這是提姆。我也會加入討論。我的意思是，儘管馬特剛才描述了所有企業都面臨的挑戰和阻力，但馬特還是這麼說了。如果將 4500 萬美元的 FFO 影響考慮在內，我們實際上的基礎業務利率為 3.75 億美元，這將是 2024 年的最高紀錄。因此我們仍然相信該業務強勁。從季節性來看，第四季通常是最疲軟的季度，但正如我們預期的那樣，第一季正再次回升。

Great. And then I know it's not your favorite thing to talk about, but there's obviously a high profile example of an activist investor involved with one of your peers with the debate over the best way to recognize value within the diversified business model. How do you think about the balance between driving value recognition for businesses within your mix through organic growth or improved profitability, particularly for something like lubes versus potential for external monetization?

偉大的。我知道這不是您喜歡談論的話題，但顯然有一個引人注目的例子，一位激進投資者與您的一位同行討論了在多元化商業模式中識別價值的最佳方式。您如何看待透過有機成長或提高獲利能力來提高您的業務組合中的價值認可（特別是對於潤滑油之類的業務）與外部貨幣化的潛力之間的平衡？

Yeah. Thanks, Ryan. Nothing has changed in our strategy around the lubes and specialties business. Our goal is to maximize shareholder value that may not have come across as clear as I should have last quarter. But we are open to whether that's in our portfolio or in someone else's portfolio. But we're going to -- our goal is to maximize the shareholder value.

是的。謝謝，瑞安。我們的潤滑油和特種產品業務策略沒有任何改變。我們的目標是實現股東價值最大化，這一點上個季度我可能還沒有明確表達出來。但我們對於將其納入我們的投資組合還是其他人的投資組合持開放態度。但我們的目標是最大化股東價值。

In the near term, we're focused on continuing to optimize this business to integrate it and grow it mostly through organic means. But if there are some inorganic opportunities that come up, small bolt-ons as Matt mentioned last quarter, we would certainly be willing to entertain that. But our primary focus is to continue to maximize that shareholder value. And in the midterm, we will continue to evaluate the strategic options on how best to do that.

短期內，我們將專注於繼續優化這項業務，以整合它並透過有機方式實現成長。但是，如果出現一些無機機會，就像馬特上個季度提到的那樣，小的附加機會，我們當然願意考慮。但我們的首要關注點是繼續實現股東價值最大化。從中期來看，我們將繼續評估如何最好地實現這一目標的策略選擇。

Paul Cheng, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Paul Cheng。

Hey guys, good morning. Tim or maybe Steve, I want to go back into the first question on marketing. The EBITDA looked really good, and you guys continue to add store. But if you look at the sales volume, and we just did a very simple map and divided by the number of stores, your per share -- your per store sales quarter-to-quarter -- say, year-over-year, that dropped about 10%. Trying to understand that why that is the case? And is it a concern that the incremental -- the store that you're getting in, it just seems like it's less productive than your existing? That's the first question.

嘿，大家早安。提姆或史蒂夫，我想回到關於行銷的第一個問題。EBITDA 看起來非常好，而且你們還在繼續增加商店。但如果你看一下銷售量，我們只是做了一個非常簡單的地圖，除以商店數量，你的每股——每個商店的季度銷售額——比去年同期下降了約 10%。試著去理解為什麼會這樣？您是否擔心增量——您所進入的商店的生產力似乎低於現有的生產力？這是第一個問題。

Thanks, Paul. Yes, on the marketing element, looking at volume year-over-year, we like to talk about this as high grading the portfolio. As we go put a new site on the ground, what we're seeing is the revenue replacement sites are performing better between 60% and 120% once they come online and at a higher margin. But these things take a little time.

謝謝，保羅。是的，就行銷要素而言，從同比銷量來看，我們喜歡將其視為對投資組合的高評級。當我們在當地建立新網站時，我們看到收入替代網站一旦上線，其表現就會好於其他網站 60% 到 120% 左右，而且利潤率也更高。但這些事情需要一點時間。

So really, this is a timing issue with some of pruning the tree, and maybe we don't want to continue with some of these sites, but the sites that we are seeing really are performing much better, and you're seeing it in our EBITDA. So this is really just a timing issue on how things are shaking out in the actual financials.

所以實際上，這是修剪樹的一些時間問題，也許我們不想繼續使用其中一些站點，但我們看到的站點確實表現得更好，您可以在我們的 EBITDA 中看到它。所以這實際上只是一個時間問題，取決於實際財務狀況如何變化。

Yeah, this is Tim. What I would also add on to that is you see the net increase in stores, which is 87% for the year, that really consists of something like 120 some-odd new stores, netted out with about 40 of the old stores that have been rolled off. And that's the high grading that Steve is referencing. And that's why you're seeing -- maybe lose some volumes in some of those stores that are rolling off, but the high grading of new business is by far driving the driving the margin increase. And you see the gross margin per gallon difference that we're posting here in 2024.

是的，這是蒂姆。我還要補充一點，您會看到門市數量的淨增長，今年全年增長了 87%，這實際上包括 120 多家新門市，以及大約 40 家已關閉的舊門市。這就是史蒂夫提到的高評分。這就是您所看到的原因——一些關閉的商店可能會損失一些銷量，但新業務的高評級是推動利潤率成長的主要動力。您可以看到我們在 2024 年發布的每加侖毛利率差異。

Steve or Tim, do you have a same-store sales (inaudible) for those that has been in your portfolio more than a year that you can share so that at least that we can do some of the apple-to-apple comparison?

史蒂夫或提姆，您是否有那些已經加入您投資組合一年多的公司的同店銷售額（聽不清楚）數據可以分享，以便我們至少可以進行一些同類比較？

Yeah. So we do look at same-store sales, and those are trending about where we expect them to be in. Timing is an important element. And so these things take between six months about to ramp up to full speed. And as you mentioned, though, the stores that we've lapped year-over-year, we're seeing parity or slightly up.

是的。因此，我們確實關注同店銷售額，其趨勢與我們預期的差不多。時機是重要因素。所以這些事情需要六個月的時間才能完全完成。不過，正如您所提到的，與去年同期相比，我們的門市數量持平或略有上升。

We continue to see growth in our region. So we think that gives us a positive indication that our strategy on moving more into our branded put is the right one to take with this business.

我們持續看到我們所在地區的成長。因此，我們認為，這給了我們一個正面的訊號，表明我們加大品牌投入的策略是開展這項業務的正確策略。

Okay. The second question is that, Tim, I think, when you look at your refining medium-term cost targets, say, $7.25 per barrel partly is that you think your utilization rate over time become better, more reliable, and so you will be able to get the denominator higher, but that's not going to be sufficient.

好的。第二個問題是，提姆，我認為，當你看看你的煉油中期成本目標，比如說每桶 7.25 美元時，部分原因是你認為你的利用率隨著時間的推移會變得更好、更可靠，因此你將能夠使分母更高，但這還不夠。

And I think you have said in the past that you probably need $100 million, $150 million in cost savings to really bridge the gap and get to there. Do you have any update you can share in terms of what initiatives that you guys are taking in pace and to able to achieve that cost reduction? And what is the time duration to achieve that? Thank you.

我想您過去曾說過，可能需要節省 1 億美元、1.5 億美元的成本才能真正彌補差距並實現這一目標。能分享一下你們正在採取哪些措施來降低成本的最新進展嗎？實現這一目標需要多長時間？謝謝。

Good morning. This is Valerie. As you know, we are aiming at the $7.25 target. We took a step this past year. Reliability remains the number one thing we're working on. So -- and you're seeing that in year-over-year production.

早安.這是瓦萊麗。如你所知，我們的目標是 7.25 美元。過去的一年我們邁出了一步。可靠性仍然是我們努力的首要任務。所以 — — 您可以從同比產量中看到這一點。

In addition to that, we're feeling those improvements with turnaround and capital, which also go after operating costs through efficiency in the capital we're putting on the ground and eliminating high-cost maintenance assets.

除此之外，我們也感受到了周轉和資本的改善，這些改善也透過提高我們投入實地資本的效率和消除高成本的維護資產來降低營運成本。

This is other thing that is in our strategy is digital performance. So we're using several digital programs to drive predictive asset intelligence and optimize our plants. These models are changing the way we work, and we anticipate that those -- we're starting to see those strategies play out in our maintenance costs and our operating costs overall this year, and we expect that, that's going to continue to serve us well.

我們的策略中的另一個內容是數位化效能。因此，我們正在使用多個數位程式來推動預測資產智慧並優化我們的工廠。這些模型正在改變我們的工作方式，我們預計——我們開始看到這些策略在今年的整體維護成本和營運成本中發揮作用，我們預計，這將繼續為我們帶來良好的服務。

Yeah. And Paul, this is Tim. I'll just jump on to what Val talked about. Others are announcing cost reduction programs in terms of total dollars that they're trying to take out of the -- out of their portfolio. We announced our goal in terms of $7.25 per barrel metric that Val talked about because we think that addresses both the cost reduction program numerator as well as the improved reliability denominator that we're trying to achieve.

是的。保羅，這是提姆。我直接轉到 Val 談論的內容。其他公司則宣布了成本削減計劃，以他們試圖從投資組合中抽出的資金總額來衡量。我們宣布了瓦爾提到的每桶 7.25 美元的目標，因為我們認為這既解決了成本削減計劃的分子，也解決了我們試圖實現的可靠性提高的分母。

We think this is a better way to measure progress and so that you can kind of see our -- how we're doing against our bottom line. We know how much cost we have to take out in order to get to that $7.25 at the numerator level. So this is more than just reliability. And we're pleased with the progress to date. Val's talked about some of the things that we've done.

我們認為這是衡量進展的更好方法，這樣你就能看到我們的底線表現如何。我們知道要達到分子水準的 7.25 美元，必須付出多少成本。所以這不僅僅是可靠性。我們對迄今為止的進展感到非常滿意。瓦爾談到了我們所做的一些事情。

We achieved a record $7.98 this year as we talked about in our prepared remarks. And we believe that we have line of sight to get to that $7.25.

正如我們在準備好的發言中提到的那樣，今年我們實現了創紀錄的 7.98 美元。我們相信我們能夠達到 7.25 美元的目標。

Alright. Thank you.

好吧。謝謝。

Neal Mehta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的尼爾梅塔 (Neal Mehta)。

Hey, good morning, Tim and team. Just -- the first question is just your thoughts on return of capital. It's been a big part of the strategy over the last couple of years Obviously, we're entering into a tougher -- we've entered into a tougher margin environment and just your perspective on when do you see line of sight to be able to resume a meaningful buyback?

嘿，早上好，提姆和團隊。只是——第一個問題是您對資本回報的想法。這是過去幾年策略的重要組成部分，顯然，我們正在進入一個更加艱難的——我們已經進入了一個更艱難的利潤環境，您認為何時能夠恢復有意義的回購？

Yeah, thanks for your question. We -- first and foremost, I'd like to reiterate our commitment to our long-term capital return commitment of 50% to our shareholders. If you look at our history, we've far exceeded that. From where we stand today with the line of sight of improving margins for the balance of this year and looking at that diversified portfolio, we feel very comfortable with meeting not target -- NIM of target of 50%.

是的，謝謝你的提問。首先，我想重申我們對股東 50% 的長期資本回報承諾。如果你回顧我們的歷史，你會發現我們已經遠遠超越了這個水準。從我們目前的情況來看，我們的目標是提高今年的剩餘利潤率，並著眼於多元化投資組合，我們非常有信心實現 50% 的淨利息收益率目標。

And as cracks improve to, in fact, exceed it. I will -- I'd like to point to your attention that if you look at our non-refining businesses, when you look at midstream of approximately 450 lubricants of this past year 330, marketing of 75, that provides us with significant dry powder, certainly to meet our dividend commitments and then as cracks improved to continue to return cash to our shareholders.

並且隨著裂縫的改善，實際上會超過它。我想提請你們注意，如果你看看我們的非煉油業務，當你看到去年大約 450 種潤滑油的中游業務（330 種，營銷業務 75 種）時，這為我們提供了大量的乾粉，肯定能滿足我們的股息承諾，然後隨著裂縫的改善，繼續向我們的股東返還現金。

And Neal, this is Tim as well. I'll just pile on in terms of what Atanas was saying. It's interesting. I know some people are out there are talking about how the midstream businesses are strong and are able to basically cover their dividend needs. We're in the same boat. If you look at our -- the $450 million of EBITDA that our midstream business is generating the cash that comes with that is enough to pay off our dividend.

尼爾，這也是提姆。我只是想補充阿塔納斯所說的內容。這很有趣。我知道有些人正在談論中游企業如何強勁並且基本上能夠滿足其股息需求。我們處於同樣的境況。如果你看看我們的中游業務產生的 4.5 億美元 EBITDA，那麼隨之而來的現金足以支付我們的股息。

And so really, everything else that's coming out of marketing that Atanas talked about that's coming out of lubes, it's coming out of refining is really allowing us to then take advantage of additional base to return value to shareholders through buybacks in other pace.

因此，實際上，阿塔納斯談到的來自行銷的其他一切，來自潤滑油、來自煉油的一切都確實使我們能夠利用額外的基礎，透過以其他速度回購來向股東返還價值。

Yeah. That makes sense. So then it really comes back to the margin environment. And the Mid-Continent is famously seasonal. It tends to be a little bit weaker as you work through the winter.

是的。這很有道理。所以它實際上又回到了保證金環境。眾所周知，中部大陸的季節特徵十分明顯。當你在冬季工作時，它往往會變得稍微弱一些。

But just your perspective on are we seeing signs of improvement? How do you think about the setup into this summer? What's going on in the Mid-Con? Is it a crude problem? Is it a product problem or just a seasonal problem?

但您認為我們是否看到了改善的跡象？您如何看待今年夏天的安排？Mid-Con 發生了什麼事？這是一個粗糙的問題嗎？這是產品問題還是季節性問題？

Yeah. This is Steve. I'll take that one. I think the Mid-Con, as you mentioned, is very seasonal. What we've had for us, particularly in the fourth quarter, was our large turnaround and that was at El Dorado. As far as what we're seeing in terms of structure in the Mid-Con, I think what we'll see is the whole US balance a little bit in terms of supply/demand and then we will be able to take advantage of some of that improved crack as we drive into the -- our head into the driving season. And we're starting to see that already. We look across 2025. And we think that just on balance, we see that it's a pretty constructive view for margins across our regions.

是的。這是史蒂夫。我要那個。我認為，正如您所說，Mid-Con 具有很強的季節性。我們取得了巨大的轉變，特別是在第四季度，這就是我們在埃爾多拉多的成績。就我們在 Mid-Con 的結構方面看到的情況而言，我認為我們將看到整個美國在供需方面略有平衡，然後我們將能夠在進入駕駛季節時利用一些改善的裂縫。我們已經開始看到這一點了。展望2025年。我們認為，總體而言，這對我們各地區的利潤率來說是一個非常有建設性的觀點。

We think the average will be at -- right at mid-cycle. Demand is looking like it's going to be up. Growth continues in our regions. It's been a very cold winter. And then there's some supportive underlying economic fundamentals suggesting a rebound and strong distillate demand. So overall, we look pretty -- we feel pretty good about our overall regions and the Mid-Con as part of that.

我們認為平均值將處於週期的中期。需求看上去將會上升。我們的地區持續成長。這是一個非常寒冷的冬天。此外，一些支撐性的潛在經濟基本面顯示油價反彈且餾分油需求強勁。因此總體而言，我們看起來很漂亮 - 我們對我們的整體區域以及其中的 Mid-Con 感覺相當良好。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Theresa Chen, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的 Theresa Chen。

Morning. Back on the midstream topic and your potential low-hanging fruit on optimizing and integrating your midstream and refining businesses to your earlier comments. Can you talk about the unit pipeline? And what are the current commitments and utilization on that? And light of the anticipated closure of a competing -- a competitor refining facility in LA and the terminus point for that system, the proximity of Vegas to LA, is that with some expandable would you be able to seek additional commitments and source additional barrels to that market how do you see the path of path forward to past five gasoline evolving from here?

早晨。回到中游主題以及您在優化和整合中游和煉油業務方面可能取得的成果，這些都是您之前的評論。你能講一下單位管道嗎？目前的承諾和利用情況如何？鑑於競爭對手位於洛杉磯的煉油廠即將關閉，以及該系統的終點站拉斯維加斯與洛杉磯的距離較近，您是否能夠通過一些擴展來尋求額外的承諾並為該市場提供額外的原油供應，您如何看待未來五年內汽油供應的演變路徑？

Thanks, Theresa, this is Steve. I'll take that one. I'm not going to get into specifics around capacity and utilization where it is, although we do believe we have some manoeuvrability on UNEV, and we think that the market structure is supporting potentially higher opportunity at the south end of that line, which, as you know, was Las Vegas. It could be supplied from the West Coast. Given the tightness of what we're seeing near term and potentially longer term, we think that bodes well for us.

謝謝，特蕾莎，我是史蒂夫。我要那個。我不會詳細談論產能和利用率，但我們確實相信我們在 UNEV 方面具有一定的機動性，而且我們認為市場結構支持該線南端（即拉斯維加斯）的潛在更高機會。可以從西海岸供給。考慮到我們看到的短期和長期的緊張局勢，我們認為這對我們來說是個好兆頭。

And so as Tim mentioned earlier, we believe we're moving barrels west out of the group up into the valley and heading north out of Salt Lake taking advantage of the Salt Lake Valley and then moving down into Las Vegas as part of that integrated value chain that we're already seeing benefit for, and we'll look to go extract more value out of that as the market unfolds.

正如蒂姆之前提到的，我們相信我們正在將石油桶從該集團向西運送到山谷，然後向北運送出鹽湖城，利用鹽湖城谷的優勢，然後作為我們已經看到好處的綜合價值鏈的一部分運送到拉斯維加斯，隨著市場的發展，我們將尋求從中獲取更多價值。

And Theresa, this is Tim. UNEV isn't the only way we can take advantage of those West Coast margins. As you know, we also can get to Phoenix through our Tesa refinery, and we still have more capacity to do that more if needed. And then, of course, the direct way, our Puget Sound refinery can make carb gasoline and can make gasoline components for that matter and can jump into the California area as needed. So there's three different ways that we can take advantage and then we're influenced through the West Coast issues that are going on right now.

特蕾莎，這是提姆。UNEV 並不是我們利用西岸優勢的唯一途徑。如您所知，我們也可以透過 Tesa 煉油廠到達鳳凰城，如果需要，我們還有更多產能來做到這一點。然後，當然，直接的方式是，我們的普吉特海灣煉油廠可以生產碳水化合物汽油，並且可以生產汽油成分，並可以根據需要進入加州地區。因此，我們可以利用三種不同方式，然後我們會受到目前正在發生的西海岸問題的影響。

Got it. And just to clarify, in terms of maximizing profitability across your system as the theme evolves would that primarily be through higher utilization of either UNEs or Artesia to Phoenix systems without incremental CapEx. And on the Puget side, can you just provide any color on how much or what percentage of the clean product yield or the gasoline component specifically can be delivered into California based on what Puget can make today?

知道了。需要澄清的是，隨著主題的發展，最大化整個系統的盈利能力是否主要透過更高程度地利用 UNE 或 Artesia 到 Phoenix 系統來實現，而無需增加資本支出。在 Puget 方面，您能否提供一些信息，根據 Puget 目前的產量，具體可以向加利福尼亞運送多​​少或百分之多少的清潔產品產量或汽油成分？

So I think it's a second part question. We believe there's opportunity to unlock more value without significant capital. And that's about optimizing where our make is. We believe our regions are -- we're fortunate that we have the production in advantaged regions in close proximity to where some of this is happening. And so we can attract from a midstream perspective, we can attract more barrels from different modes of operation to uplift the midstream, but for our integrated value chain, we can do more there as well.

所以我認為這是第二部分的問題。我們相信，即使不投入大量資本也有機會釋放更多價值。這就是關於優化我們的製造。我們相信我們的地區——我們很幸運，我們的生產位於靠近發生此類事件的地區的優勢地區。因此，我們可以從中游的角度吸引更多的石油，從不同的營運模式吸引更多的石油來提升中游，但對於我們的綜合價值鏈，我們也可以在那裡做更多的事情。

When it gets to the question around Puget, we have the ability to make significant high-grade components and put those down into the California market. We look to see where we can make more card gas at -- in the future if that market plays out. Right now, we think we're finding opportunities to go put higher value components down into that market to help supply some of the short that exists there, and we'll look to continue to exploit that even further as we move along.

當談到有關普吉特的問題時，我們有能力製造重要的高品質零件並將其投放到加州市場。我們期待看到，如果該市場能夠發展起來，未來我們可以在哪裡生產更多的卡片氣體。目前，我們認為我們正在尋找機會將更高價值的組件投放到該市場，以幫助彌補那裡存在的一些短缺，並且我們將在未來繼續進一步利用這一機會。

And Theresa, this is Tim. We -- we talk about our growth capital every year when we describe the pieces of capital that we reserve for growth. We have a small growth capital project at Puget Sound that will allow us to make even more card gasoline and ship it. That comes online here in the next month or two. And so that's perfect timing in terms of what we're going to be able to do to try to take advantage of the market if warranted.

特蕾莎，這是提姆。我們每年在描述為成長而儲備的資本時都會談論我們的成長資本。我們在普吉特海灣有一個小型成長資本項目，這將使我們能夠生產更多的卡汽油並進行運輸。它將於未來一兩個月內上線。所以，就我們能夠採取的措施（如果有必要）來嘗試利用市場而言，這是一個完美的時機。

That's great to hear. And if I could just squeeze one more in. On the midstream [450], how much of that is paid by the refining segment versus third-party cash flows?

我很高興聽到這個消息。如果我可以再擠一點進去就好了。對於中游[450]來說，其中有多少是由煉油部門支付的，有多少是第三方現金流支付的？

Yes. We're roughly an 80% integrated value type midstream business. And we think there's opportunity and open space where we can further improve the earnings without impacting at all our integrated performance and value chain.

是的。我們大約80%是一個綜合價值型中游企業。我們認為，我們還有機會和空間進一步提高獲利，同時又不影響我們的綜合績效和價值鏈。

Roger Read, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的羅傑‧里德 (Roger Read)。

Yeah. Good morning, everybody. I guess kind of address what I wanted to hit, which was what is your optionality to make more of the car gasoline and maybe specifically the project you're referring to in Anacortes. I mean there's always the issue in California of what gets imported is unfinished versus finished. Is part of what you're looking at here, the ability to deliver the finished and any indication of what your sort of capture potential is off of that versus an unfinished product into California?

是的。大家早安。我想談談我想要表達的意思，即您可以選擇生產更多的車用汽油，也許特別是您在安娜科特斯提到的項目。我的意思是，加州一直存在著進口未完成品和完成品的問題。您在這裡考慮的部分內容是，交付成品的能力，以及與將未成品運往加州相比，您的捕獲潛力如何？

Yeah, Roger, this is Steve. I mean it's a great question. What is the most valuable thing for us in the Pacific Northwest is flexibility and optionality. And today, right now, the high grade is on the components and bringing unfinished into California, but this project allows us to go decide whether or not there's a larger card make and a volume work that we put into California versus the components. But it's going to depend on the supply-demand balance of market at the time, and we will get our share of that capture in either one of those decisions, but what is best for Puget and the overall entity.

是的，羅傑，這是史蒂夫。我認為這是一個很好的問題。對於我們太平洋西北地區來說，最有價值的是靈活性和可選性。今天，目前，高品質的產品是在零件上，並將未完成的產品運送到加利福尼亞，但這個項目讓我們能夠決定是否有更大規模的卡片製作，以及是否有大量的工作是在加利福尼亞進行的，而不是零件。但這將取決於當時市場的供需平衡，無論透過哪種決策，我們都會獲得自己的份額，但這對 Puget 和整個實體來說都是最好的。

Okay. Appreciate that. And then on the lube side of the business, I know you mentioned sort of a, I don't know, seasonal or cyclical downturn here on the lube oil side. As you look out at the sort of, let's call it, the macro side of that supply and demand. What is the expectation for base oil markets?

好的。非常感謝。然後，在潤滑油業務方面，我知道您提到了潤滑油的季節性或週期性衰退。當你觀察這種供給與需求的宏觀面向時，我們稱之為供給與需求的宏觀面向。基礎油市場有何預期？

Is there any particular market that we need to pay attention to? I'm thinking kind of here of China has been slow in terms of how it impacts crude oil consumption. Is this a tied to China tied to chemicals being a little more loose? What do you think is the key item to pay attention to here for tightening up the lubes market?

是否有任何特別的市場需要我們關注？我認為中國在影響原油消費方面進展緩慢。這是否與中國對化學品的約束稍微寬鬆？您認為加強潤滑油市場監管需要關注的關鍵問題是什麼？

Yeah. It's Matt Joyce here. Good question. From an overall macro demand perspective, you're spot on. I mean what we're seeing at this stage is that certain geographic areas that had taken a lot of the base oils in the past many years, namely Asia and more specifically around China.

是的。我是馬特喬伊斯。好問題。從整體宏觀需求的角度來看，您說得對。我的意思是，我們現階段看到的情況是，某些地理區域在過去許多年裡消耗了大量的基礎油，也就是亞洲，更具體地說是中國週邊。

And then, of course, coupled with the European demands that are dampened and a little bit softer than had been traditionally there. Folks are looking at the US market and the North American market more generally as a favorable place to place base oils. And so that, I think, is a contributing factor to the overall dampened margin environment that we've gone through in 2024. And I think that it will really be a matter of where and how we see China continuing to recover.

當然，再加上歐洲的需求受到抑制，而且比傳統上溫和一些。人們普遍將美國市場和北美市場視為放置基礎油的有利地點。因此，我認為這是導致 2024 年整體利潤率下降的因素。我認為這真正的問題是中國在哪裡以及如何繼續復甦。

And then do those base oils make their way back to that marketplace and tighten things up. At this stage, that's really plays to the strategy that we've talked about with regards to being operationally excellent in our lubricants business continuing to forward integrate our base oils into finished products and our specialties portfolio that allow for us to continue to have a favorable mix and improve our margins. So we're not as reliant on that business.

然後這些基礎油會回到市場並收緊市場。在這個階段，這確實符合我們所討論的策略，即在我們的潤滑油業務中保持卓越的運營，繼續將我們的基礎油整合到成品和我們的專業產品組合中，這使我們能夠繼續擁有有利的組合併提高我們的利潤率。所以我們不那麼依賴那項業務。

And Roger, we've talked about this before, but our strategy is to integrate and grow our finished lubes business to the point that it soaks up all that excess base oil that we had produced in the past. We're basically trying to disconnect our business from that base oil craft business. And while we're not all the way complete yet, you'll see over the last three years when we report percent base oil sales as a percentage of our product mix for lubes that has been going down in the last three years. And our strategy is working, that's continuing to play out. And as you see, the base oil markets cycle through -- you'll see that our results have been able to stay strong through the cycle. And that's that disconnecting that we've been doing from a strategic standpoint.

羅傑，我們之前談過這個問題，但我們的策略是整合和發展我們的成品潤滑油業務，直到它吸收我們過去生產的所有過剩基礎油。我們基本上是想將我們的業務與基礎油工藝業務分開。雖然我們還沒有完全完成，但你會看到，在過去三年中，我們報告的基礎油銷售額佔潤滑油產品組合的百分比一直在下降。我們的策略正在發揮作用，並且正在繼續發揮作用。正如您所看到的，基礎油市場不斷循環—您會發現我們的業績在整個週期中都能保持強勁。這就是我們從戰略角度所做的分離。

Can I just follow up on that real quick. Is that part of when you've spoken in the past about potentially some bolt-on acquisitions. Is that the easier way to address that? Or is it internal organic expansions are just as good.

我能否快速跟進一下這個問題？這是您過去談到可能進行的一些附加收購的一部分嗎？這是解決這個問題更簡單的方法嗎？或者內部有機擴張也一樣好。

Yeah. So it's really -- it's both, Roger. So we have focused on organic growth and getting our product lines in the right place and developing products that allow for us to go out and compete and deliver a distinctive value proposition and then uses that are growing or that we believe we have a reason to win and grow in. And that will incorporate our base oils into those formulations.

是的。所以事實上──兩者都有，羅傑。因此，我們專注於有機成長，將我們的產品線放在正確的位置，開發使我們能夠出去競爭的產品，並提供獨特的價值主張，然後使用正在增長的產品或我們相信我們有理由獲勝和成長的產品。這會將我們的基礎油融入這些配方中。

And then coupled with that, as we've mentioned in the past, we've looked at and continue to look at tuck-ins and other value-added acquisition opportunities where we may be able to forward to integrate our base wells, but also not only look at that, but the value and the EBITDA being accretive to our EBITDA portfolio and numbers in line of sight of that. This isn't just one or another. We have to do it kind of balanced way between the organic and the inorganic approach.

然後，正如我們過去提到的那樣，我們已經並將繼續尋找附加價值和其他增值收購機會，我們可能能夠藉此整合我們的基礎油井，但不僅要看這一點，還要看價值和 EBITDA 對我們的 EBITDA 投資組合的增值以及與之相關的數字。這並非只是一個或另一個。我們必須在有機方法和無機方法之間取得平衡。

Doug Leggate, Wolfe Research.

道格‧萊格特（Doug Leggate），沃爾夫研究公司。

Oh thanks. Good morning, everyone. I appreciate you taking my questions. Tim or Atanas, I'm not sure which one of you wants to take this. I want to ask about small refinery exemptions in the wake of the Trump administration. Obviously, Sinclair had their ruling, I guess it was back in August and Frankly, I'm not sure where it stands right now. We will have FPM at our refinery conference on March 6. And obviously, we're grateful that you guys will be there also.

哦，謝謝。大家早安。感謝您回答我的問題。提姆或阿塔納斯，我不確定你們當中誰想接受這個。我想問一下川普政府出台後對小型煉油廠的豁免情況。顯然，辛克萊有他們的裁決，我想那是在八月份，坦白說，我不確定現在的情況如何。我們將於 3 月 6 日在煉油廠會議上討論 FPM。顯然，我們也非常感激你們的到來。

But I was just wondering if you could offer any insights to where things stand on SREs and what it could potentially mean for DINO if, in fact, you did find a favorable ruling.

但我只是想知道您是否可以對 SRE 的現狀提供一些見解，以及如果您確實找到了有利的裁決，這對 DINO 可能意味著什麼。

Yeah, Doug, good question. I mean if we can answer that question on what Trump and his administration is thinking on SREs, I think we'd be in a different business right now. But what we do believe is the small refinery exemptions are back on the table.

是的，道格，這個問題問得好。我的意思是，如果我們能夠回答川普和他的政府對 SRE 的看法，我想我們現在的業務就會有所不同。但我們確實相信，小型煉油廠的豁免權已經重新擺上了檯面。

And prior to the Trump administration, I would have told you that we had no real outlook that the small refinery exemptions had a path forward. I think there could be a path forward, but I think it's far and away from a certain path at this point. And we're just going to have to monitor what the administration chooses to do.

在川普政府執政之前，我會告訴你，我們並沒有真正認識到小型煉油廠豁免政策的未來前景。我認為可能有一條前進的道路，但我認為目前它距離某條道路還很遠。我們只需監視政府選擇做什麼。

There's a lot of different stakeholders involved, as you know, that are on both sides of the small refinery exemption debate. And I think it's going to come down to how they're going to balance the needs and the wishes of all the parties in order to trade off and get resolution of the small refinery exemptions.

如您所知，涉及許多不同的利益相關者，他們對小型煉油廠豁免權的爭論持兩派觀點。我認為，這將取決於他們如何平衡各方的需求和願望，以達成妥協並解決小型煉油廠豁免問題。

Clearly, the appeals courts have thrown this back into the lap of the EPA. And so that they've -- their prior denials were unjustified and unlawful. So the question is, what will the EPA do going forward? And I think at this point, that's anyone's guess. But we are hopeful that at least there could be a resolution to this issue here in the next few years.

顯然，上訴法院又把這個問題拋回了環保署的手中。所以他們之前的否認是沒有道理而且不合法的。那麼問題是，EPA 下一步要做什麼？我認為就目前情況而言，任何人都無法做出判斷。但我們希望至少在未來幾年內能夠解決這個問題。

I know it's maybe premature, Tim, but is there any way you could put a kind of order of magnitude as to what it could mean if you did, in fact, get the credit back? .

提姆，我知道現在說這個可能為時過早，但你能否給出一個數量級來說明，如果你確實拿回了功勞，這意味著什麼？。

Yeah. No, it's hard to know because who knows what the resolution will be. It's hard to know what -- how to value any type of RINs or any type of RINs exemptions. We do have -- as we -- if you go back into our history, you can see which plants have gotten approved for refinery exemptions in the past. We have three plants that have gotten exemptions in the past.

是的。不，這很難知道，因為誰知道解決方案是什麼。很難知道如何評估任何類型的 RIN 或任何類型的 RIN 豁免。我們確實有——如果你回顧我們的歷史，你就可以看到過去哪些工廠獲得了煉油廠豁免的批准。我們有三家工廠過去曾獲得豁免。

There's no -- we're to know if those three could get exemptions going forward. But I think if you look at that history, Doug, you can kind of get a feel for at least what the high end of the value could be. And then, of course, you got to think about all the different iterations that might happen that could result in different numbers.

沒有——我們想知道這三個人今後是否可以獲得豁免。但我認為，如果你看看歷史，道格，你至少可以感覺到價值的上限是多少。然後，當然，你必須考慮可能發生的所有可能導致不同數字的不同迭代。

I know it's a bit imprecise. I appreciate that. Tim, for this one is for you, and I apologize for the question in advance. I want to go back to Ryan's point, so BP is going to have its event next week, and there's a lot of speculation that perhaps Castrol could be on the table. And the numbers are getting banded around at sort of 8x to 10x EBITDA.

我知道這有點不精確。我很感激。提姆，這個問題是給你的，我提前為這個問題道歉。我想回到瑞安的觀點，BP 將於下週舉辦活動，有很多猜測認為嘉實多可能會參與其中。這些數字大約在 EBITDA 的 8 倍到 10 倍之間。

That would be a very big marker for you guys? And if indeed, $330 million of EBITDA last quarter on an adjusted basis for your lubes business. I guess my question is, you've clarified your position this morning by saying, I guess, it's an either or someone else's portfolio, I think, was your language. My question is, is where the seriatim of maturity for the lubes business are you? If you want to do bolt-ons?

這對你們來說是一個非常重要的標誌嗎？如果確實如此，上季度您的潤滑油業務經調整後的 EBITDA 為 3.3 億美元。我的問題是，你今天早上已經澄清了你的立場，你說，我想，這是一個要么是別人的投資組合，要么是其他人的投資組合，這是你的說法。我的問題是，您的潤滑油業務的成熟度順序是怎麼樣的？您是否想做螺栓固定？

Is it at a scale where you feel that you have options? Or is it still in the -- we're getting it to a level where we want to have options? Can you just maybe clarify what exactly you're thinking? Because obviously, last quarter was senders with its core. This quarter, it sounds like it's about maximizing value. So I'm sorry to repeat the question, but I was looking for some clarity.

您是否覺得自己有足夠的選擇？或者它仍然處於——我們正在將其提升到我們想要擁有選擇的水平？你能解釋一下你到底在想什麼嗎？因為很明顯，上個季度的核心是發送者。本季聽起來像是在實現價值最大化。很抱歉重複了這個問題，但我想尋求一些澄清。

No, it's a good question, Doug. No, we -- look, there's -- when people ask about core and non-core, I think that creates different ideas or perceptions in different people's minds. I like to think of it more as independent or not independent. So whether it's a core business or not, can mean so many different things. Our lubes business is independent of our other businesses so -- or at least as more independent than the rest of our businesses.

不，這是個好問題，道格。不，我們——看，當人們問到核心和非核心時，我認為這會在不同的人心中產生不同的想法或看法。我更喜歡將其視為獨立或非獨立。因此，它是否是核心業務可能意味著許多不同的事情。我們的潤滑油業務獨立於我們的其他業務，或至少與我們其他的業務一樣獨立。

So it can be separated easier than, say, our midstream or our marketing businesses can be separated from refining. So what that does and the reason why it seems like there's a lot of optionality, a lot of flexibility in there is because it's independent. We have more ways that we can maximize shareholder value. Then those businesses that are really dependent on our core refining business.

因此，它可以比我們的中游或行銷業務與煉油業務分離得更容易。那麼它的作用以及它看起來具有許多可選性和靈活性的原因在於它是獨立的。我們有更多的方法可以實現股東價值最大化。然後是那些真正依賴我們核心煉油業務的業務。

So I don't like to use the word core, and that's a little bit what I think is confusing folks because it's independent, it gives us the ability to do a lot of things, grow it, build it organically, inorganically or sell it and monetize the value independently.

所以我不喜歡使用核心這個詞，我認為這有點讓人們感到困惑，因為它是獨立的，它使我們有能力做很多事情，發展它，有機地、無機地構建它或出售它並獨立地將價值貨幣化。

And I think when you think about where we are in this process, we feel really good about how Matt and his team have really built this business up over the last four years. The last four years, our average EBITDA for the business has been $348 million. And so that that's been very strong. It's been something that we feel very good about. But I can tell you, we think there's more to come.

我認為，當你考慮到我們在這個過程中所處的位置時，我們對馬特和他的團隊在過去四年中如何真正建立起這項業務感到非常高興。過去四年，我們業務的平均 EBITDA 為 3.48 億美元。所以它非常強大。這是讓我們感到非常高興的事。但我可以告訴你，我們認為未來還會有更多。

There's a lot more low-hanging fruit to go capture from the lubes business that we're valuing that and trying to say, in the short term, should we go after this low-hanging fruit because we believe it's there. And we -- on the success that we've had in the last for years, we believe we can really build on that and continue to grow that business? Or should we continue to look at options to monetize and take advantage of that? So that's what we're -- that's the balance, and that's why it's a little bit kind of on the line there. Market conditions play a big part of this, too.

潤滑油業務中還有許多唾手可得的果實可供獲取，我們正在對其進行評估，並試圖說，在短期內，我們是否應該去獲取這些唾手可得的果實，因為我們相信它們就在那裡。而且，基於過去幾年來取得的成功，我們相信我們能夠在此基礎上繼續發展業務嗎？或者我們應該繼續尋找能夠獲利的選擇並利用這一點？所以這就是我們要做的 — — 這就是平衡，這就是為什麼它在那裡有點像一條線。市場條件也扮演重要角色。

The interest rates have been coming down in the market as much as people have been anticipating the IPO and private equity markets haven't been as active as people had anticipated. And those all play a big part in the overall market as well. Castro, we don't comment on any specific opportunities that are out there, Doug, but it is interesting to watch and see.

由於人們一直期待 IPO，所以市場利率一直在下降，而私募股權市場也沒有人們預期的那麼活躍。這些在整個市場中也發揮著重要作用。卡斯特羅，我們不對任何具體的機會發表評論，道格，但觀察一下還是很有趣的。

Very thorough answer and I very much appreciate it. We'll see you in a couple of weeks.

非常詳盡的回答，我非常感激。我們將在幾週後與您見面。

Matthew Blair, TPH.

馬修·布萊爾，TPH。

Thank you and good morning. Could you discuss the R&D environment so far in the first quarter with a lot of moving parts between losing the BTC, but then DRIs moving higher. Do you expect to capture the 45Z? And do you have any R&D downtime planned in the first quarter? .

謝謝你，早安。您能否討論一下第一季迄今為止的研發環境，其中 BTC 損失和 DRI 走高之間存在著許多變動因素。您希望捕獲 45Z 嗎？您在第一季計劃暫停研發嗎？。

Hey, Matt, this is Steve. I think that's the $64,000 question. What it's certain is volatility is here in Q1. As you know, the 45Z is not law just yet. Either they are notices.

嘿，馬特，我是史蒂夫。我認為這是一個價值 64,000 美元的問題。可以肯定的是，第一季確實存在波動。如您所知，45Z 目前還不是法律。它們要么是通知。

There's a great model out and we are preparing to run our business under that as though it goes into effect at some point. And as you well know, there was a recent issue with the LCFS amendment in California, and that also created a bit of uncertainty in terms of valuations on the LCFS prices.

這是一個很棒的模型，我們正準備按照該模型開展我們的業務，就好像它在某個時候會生效一樣。眾所周知，加州最近出現了有關低碳食品標準 (LCFS) 修正案的問題，這也為低碳食品標準 (LCFS) 價格估值帶來了一些不確定性。

So I wish I had more specificity, but we believe these things will settle out in Q1. And for now, what we're doing is focusing on the things that have made that business successful over the past three quarters. And that really is optimizing our feedstock strategy, buying prompt and high low CI amounts, keeping our lid on costs and operational efficiencies.

所以我希望我能更具體一點，但我們相信這些事情將在第一季解決。目前，我們正在做的是重點放在過去三個季度中推動該業務成功的因素。這確實優化了我們的原料策略，購買及時且高低 CI 量，從而控製成本和營運效率。

We had a very good utilization and operational quarter. and then moving our molecules to the right markets where we can get the best netback. Those elements are still going to be important regardless of what framework actually becomes law moving forward. So I wish I had more specificity, but there's a lot of uncertainty in Q1, and we're doing the best to stay on top of it and make sure that we're carefully running our business to optimize the shareholder value aspect.

我們的利用率和營運季度表現非常好。然後將我們的分子轉移到正確的市場，以便我們能夠獲得最佳的淨回報。無論什麼樣的框架最終成為法律，這些要素仍然很重要。所以我希望我能更具體一點，但第一季存在著許多不確定性，我們正在盡最大努力保持領先地位，並確保我們謹慎經營我們的業務，以優化股東價值方面。

Sounds good. And then looking at the adjusted EBITDA versus EPS in the fourth quarter, it seems like depreciation took a step up while your tax rate might have been lower than the recent run rate. Were there any onetime issues with either of those factors?

聽起來不錯。然後查看第四季度的調整後 EBITDA 與 EPS，似乎折舊增加，而稅率可能低於近期的運行率。這兩個因素中是否有過一次性問題？

Thanks for your question. With respect to depreciation, this is simply a function of our capital spending and the depreciable life turnarounds. So that's purely timing and additional CapEx. When you look at our tax rate, our tax rate is actually advantaged still on a full year basis, we're 15% versus statutory of 21%. And that's primarily a function of the credits that we receive on the renewables business.

感謝您的提問。至於折舊，這只是我們的資本支出和折舊年限週轉的函數。所以這純粹是時間和額外的資本支出。當你查看我們的稅率時，我們的稅率實際上仍然按全年計算具有優勢，我們的稅率為 15%，而法定稅率為 21%。這主要取決於我們在再生能源業務中獲得的信貸。

Okay, sounds good. Thank you.

好的，聽起來不錯。謝謝。

Jason Gabelman, TD Cowen.

傑森·加貝爾曼（Jason Gabelman），TD Cowen。

Morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I'm going to ask another one on Lubricants, apologies ahead of time. In terms of potentially growing, you've mentioned kind of bolt-ons and organic growth, but is there an interest in a larger kind of step-up in lubricants as a mix of the overall business? Or do you feel like this is around the right size in terms of earnings contribution mix to the overall business?

早晨。感謝您回答我的問題。我將要問另一個關於潤滑劑的問題，提前致歉。就潛在成長而言，您提到了附加成長和有機成長，但作為整體業務的一部分，您是否對潤滑油的更大幅度成長感興趣？或者您覺得，從整體業務的獲利貢獻組合來看，這個規模合適？

Yeah. Jason, thanks for the question. Which -- when we talked about what our focus is, and this is just -- this is more than just moves. This is the whole HF Sinclair portfolio. Our primary focus is still to grow this business organically.

是的。傑森，謝謝你的提問。當我們談論我們的重點是什麼時，這不僅僅是舉措。這是整個 HF Sinclair 投資組合。我們的首要重點仍然是有機地發展這項業務。

We are focused on reliability improvements, integration and optimization/synergies as we continue to optimize this new portfolio that we've gotten together. So when we talk about this openness to do some bolt-ons, it really is as a secondary or opportunistic way to accelerate maybe the growth that we're looking at. But organic growth is still our primary focus.

我們專注於可靠性的改進、整合和優化/協同作用，並將繼續優化我們所獲得的這項新產品組合。因此，當我們談論這種採取一些附加措施的開放態度時，它實際上是一種次要的或機會主義的方式來加速我們正在考慮的成長。但有機成長仍是我們關注的重點。

If we look at any type of bolt-ons or inorganic growth, it would have to be a very unique opportunity that would allow us to accelerate kind of our desires integrating base oils into finished lubes, for example, would be an accelerated goal that a bolt-on could help us achieve our initial appetite is not to do something that's transformational or betting of the company, but it's something that really is more on the bolt-on size.

如果我們看一下任何類型的附加或無機增長，它都必須是一個非常獨特的機會，可以讓我們加速實現將基礎油整合到成品潤滑油中的願望，例如，附加可以幫助我們實現我們的初始願望，而不是做一些變革性的事情或對公司進行押注，但這實際上更多地取決於附加的規模。

Okay. Great. That's really clear. And my follow-up, I would love to get your updated thoughts on tariffs. And in 10 days, I think we may have another fore of headlines on Canadian tariffs on their crude oil, given the amount of Canadian crude you run within your refineries.

好的。偉大的。這確實很清楚。我的後續問題是，我很想了解您對關稅的最新看法。而10天后，考慮到加拿大煉油廠生產的加拿大原油數量，我想我們可能會再次看到有關加拿大原油關稅的頭條新聞。

I was wondering specifically in your inland markets, both PADD 2 and Rockies, how you see potential tariffs impacting the ability for those assets to run at full rates and the flexibility to switch crudes.

我特別想知道，在您的內陸市場（PADD 2 和落基山脈）中，您認為潛在的關稅將如何影響這些資產以全速運行的能力以及轉換原油的靈活性。

Hey Jason, this is Steve. I'll take that one. Yeah, this is -- again, Q1 is the quarter of uncertainty, which is good, keeps you on your toes dose. And tariffs are something that we've been looking at quite carefully. We have a full event command team looking at all the potential scenarios.

嘿傑森，我是史蒂夫。我要那個。是的，這是——再說一次，第一季是充滿不確定性的季度，這是好事，讓你保持警惕。我們一直在仔細研究關稅問題。我們擁有一支完整的事件指揮團隊，正在研究所有可能發生的情況。

And what we believe in our refineries is we have the ability to lighten up, and we're connected to many different hubs. We're connected to Guernsey, Cushing, even our own crude acquisition in the Permian, A&S. And to be honest, we think we will deal with whatever the market gives us. What we saw early on when the market opened up shortly after the proposed tariffs is, there were some indicators. And we think that a good portion of those tariffs will be borne by the producer and to a lesser extent, a customer but we have the ability to be flexible. And so we'll take those decisions as they come with whatever is enacted from a tariff perspective.

我們相信我們的煉油廠有能力減輕負擔，而且我們與許多不同的樞紐相連。我們與根西島、庫欣，甚至我們自己在二疊紀盆地的原油收購、A&S都有著密切聯繫。老實說，我們認為我們會應對市場帶給我們的一切。我們在擬議關稅實施後不久市場開放時就看到了一些指標。我們認為，這些關稅的很大一部分將由生產商承擔，較小程度上由客戶承擔，但我們有能力靈活處理。因此，我們將根據關稅角度製定的任何措施做出這些決定。

Yeah. Got it. And just if I could follow up, does that flexibility come with an impact to utilization? Or is there kind of a first order of flexibility without impacting utilization and maybe a second order that has more severe economic implications? .

是的。知道了。如果我可以跟進的話，這種彈性是否會對使用率產生影響？或者是否存在一種不影響利用率的第一級靈活性，以及​​可能具有更嚴重經濟影響的第二級靈活性？。

Yeah. So it's going to depend again on where the price mechanism's set. There is a level of heavy that we need to run at both Parco and El Dorado, but we can minimize what that is and introduce a lighter slate. So yield structure and depending on the pricing elements may impact ultimate throughput. But as an efficient market would have it, if those things happen and pricing moves up, the market will rebalance and clear and get us back into an economic settled position of full runs.

是的。所以這又將取決於價格機制的設定。在 Parco 和 El Dorado，我們都需要運行一定程度的重型設備，但我們可以將重型設備的數量降至最低，並採用更輕的型號。因此，收益結構和定價因素可能會影響最終產量。但正如有效市場所希望的那樣，如果這些事情發生並且價格上漲，市場將重新平衡和清算，並使我們回到全面運作的經濟穩定狀態。

Yeah, great, thanks for those answers.

是的，太好了，謝謝這些回答。

John Royall, JP Morgan.

摩根大通 (JP Morgan) 的約翰‧羅亞爾 (John Royall)。

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. So my first question is on the potential for refining M&A. How do you think about that in this market, Tim? I think you've mentioned in the past that you like to be countercyclical with M&A when you can. Is it a good time for you to get active on the refining acquisition side? Or is there may be some more caution around the balance sheet now?

嗨，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於完善併購的潛力。提姆，您如何看待這個市場？我記得您過去曾提到過，只要有可能，您就喜歡逆週期進行併購。現在是您積極參與煉油收購的好時機嗎？或者現在對資產負債表可能會更加謹慎？

Yeah. Good question, John. Again, we've said this when we were talking about lubes that I'll say it when we're talking about refining as well. Our main focus is internal organic growth in our refining business. And so that's with reliability, integration and optimization.

是的。問得好，約翰。再說一遍，我們在談論潤滑油時說過這一點，當我們談論精煉時我也會這麼說。我們的重點是煉油業務的內部有機成長。這就是可靠性、整合度和優化性。

We believe, as you've heard me say before, that there's a hidden refinery still in our portfolio, and we believe that's the most accretive way to spend our energy and spend our efforts is to unlock that in the refinery inside our own refining business.

我們相信，正如你之前聽我說過的那樣，我們的投資組合中仍然有一個隱藏的煉油廠，並且我們相信，投入我們的精力和努力的最有效方式就是在我們自己的煉油業務中的煉油廠中解鎖它。

There's still -- we've made a lot of headway by the way, and we made -- we've laid the foundation here over this past year. there's still a lot of room to grow still as we continue to peel layers of the end in a way and continue to optimize. You're seeing that in throughput either year-over-year. You're seeing that in OpEx lower year-over-year. We're seeing that as we continue to integrate with midstream and marketing, you're seeing us unlock some of that potential.

順便說一下，我們已經取得了很大進展，並且在過去的一年裡奠定了基礎。隨著我們繼續以某種方式剝離層層外殼並繼續優化，仍有很大的成長空間。您可以看到，吞吐量與去年同期相比有所變化。您會看到，營運支出較去年同期有所下降。我們看到，隨著我們繼續與中游和行銷相結合，您會看到我們釋放了部分潛力。

And so that's really where our main focus is. However, you're right, we are laying a foundation. And as the market conditions change and as the bid-ask spread changes, we might be able to be opportunistic and look at available refining assets that are out there. But I would tell you, again, it has to be the right asset, the right timing, the right price. It has to be countercyclical.

所以這確實是我們關注的重點。不過，你說得對，我們正在打基礎。隨著市場條件的變化以及買賣價差的變化，我們也許能夠抓住機會，尋找現有的煉油資產。但我想再告訴你，它必須是正確的資產、正確的時機和正確的價格。它必須是逆週期的。

It has to fit within our overall portfolio competitive advantages that we talk about all the time, fruit having a laden crude advantage, products having a market placement advantage. And at this point, we'll consider options as they become available. but we're mostly focused on organic optimization and growth.

它必須符合我們一直在談論的整體產品組合競爭優勢，即水果具有豐富的原料優勢、產品具有市場定位優勢。此時，我們會考慮可用的選項。但我們主要關注的是有機優化和成長。

Great. And then my quick follow-up is on the Rockies. There's a pipeline that's scheduled to start up next year, bringing refined product to the Denver area. Can you talk about how you think about that pipe in relation to your Rockies footprint? .

偉大的。然後我要快速跟進一下落基山脈。一條管道計劃於明年啟動，將精煉產品輸送到丹佛地區。您能談談您如何看待這條管道與落基山脈足跡的關係嗎？。

Yeah, John. This is Steve. That expansion of that pipeline predominantly is moving jet into the Front Range, but ultimately, we'll open up more products moving west out of the group. We believe we're in the best position to take advantage of our asset base. And that is whether it makes sense to move barrels out of our refineries in the Rockies down to Denver or we have the ability to go potentially move things west.

是的，約翰。這是史蒂夫。該管道的擴建主要是為了將噴射機運送到前山脈，但最終，我們將開發更多向西運出該集團的產品。我們相信，我們處於最佳位置來充分利用我們的資產基礎。而且，問題在於將原油從落基山脈的煉油廠運送到丹佛是否合理，或者我們有能力將原油運往西部。

And so we'll look to make sure that as products come into that market, that we still have the flexibility to get them to the highest netback market, be that the Salt Lake Valley up into [Idaho] or down, as we mentioned earlier, UNEV into the Vegas market. So it will certainly bring more product when that is done, but we are positioning ourselves to take advantage of our marketplace and our competitive advantages there.

因此，我們會確保當產品進入該市場時，我們仍然可以靈活地將它們推向淨回值最高的市場，無論是從鹽湖谷到愛達荷州，還是從我們之前提到的 UNEV 到拉斯維加斯市場。因此，當完成這項工作後，肯定會帶來更多的產品，但我們正在定位自己，以利用我們在那裡的市場和競爭優勢。

Yeah. And John, this is Tim. There's always going to be competitive changes in the marketplace. These pipelines are no different. Our strategy is still the same. We want to be the low-cost supplier in the markets that we serve. And we want to grow our branded foot, the Sinclair stations, the DINO stations that we talk about. And if we can execute and continue to grow those objectives, then we believe we'll still be competitive and be able to protect our market share.

是的。約翰，這是蒂姆。市場上總是會發生競爭變化。這些管道沒有什麼不同。我們的策略仍然是一樣的。我們希望成為我們服務市場的低成本供應商。我們希望擴大我們的品牌影響力，包括我們提到的 Sinclair 加油站和 DINO 加油站。如果我們能夠執行並繼續發展這些目標，那麼我們相信我們仍然具有競爭力並能夠保護我們的市場份額。

And that does conclude our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the conference back over to Tim for closing comments.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我將會議交還給提姆，請他作最後發言。

Thank you, Christa. Before we end, I would like to give a shout out to all of our employees for the hard work they committed to executing our plan in 2024. We are focused on what we can control during these challenging market conditions, and it was very satisfying to see the number of annual records we delivered in safety, reliability, cost and profitability. In addition, our full year results demonstrate the earnings power of our diversified portfolio.

謝謝你，克里斯塔。在結束之前，我想向我們所有的員工致以最誠摯的謝意，感謝他們為執行我們的 2024 年計劃所付出的辛勤努力。我們專注於在這些充滿挑戰的市場條件下我們能夠控制的事情，看到我們在安全性、可靠性、成本和盈利能力方面創下的年度記錄，我們感到非常滿意。此外，我們的全年業績證明了我們多元化投資組合的獲利能力。

While we are encouraged by the recent improvement in real refining cracks that we have seen in the markets, we are also excited about continuing to grow our midstream marketing and lubricants and specialties businesses. Looking ahead, our priorities remain the same, to improve our reliability to integrate and optimize our new portfolio of assets and return excess cash to our shareholders. Thank you all for joining our call. Have a great day.

雖然我們對近期市場上實際煉油裂解價差的改善感到鼓舞，但我們也對繼續發展我們的中游行銷和潤滑油及特種業務感到興奮。展望未來，我們的首要任務保持不變，即提高我們的可靠性，整合和優化我們的新資產組合，並向股東返還多餘的現金。感謝大家加入我們的電話會議。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you. This does conclude today's teleconference. Please disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。請立即斷開您的線路，祝您有美好的一天。