Copa Holdings SA (CPA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。

Welcome to Copa Holdings' fourth quarter earnings call.

歡迎參加 Copa Holdings 第四季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this call is being webcast and recorded on February 13, 2025.

(操作員指示) 提醒一下，本次通話將於 2025 年 2 月 13 日進行網路直播和錄音。

Now we'll turn the conference call over to Daniel Tapia, Director of Investor Relations.

現在我們將電話會議轉給投資者關係總監 Daniel Tapia。

Sir, you may begin.

先生，您可以開始啦。

Thank you, Carmen, and welcome, everyone, to our fourth quarter and full-year earnings call.

謝謝您，卡門，歡迎大家參加我們的第四季和全年財報電話會議。

Joining me today are Pedro Heilbron, CEO of Copa Holdings, and Peter Donkersloot, who was recently appointed as the company CFO.

今天與我一起出席的還有 Copa Holdings 執行長 Pedro Heilbron 和最近被任命為公司財務長的 Peter Donkersloot。

First, Pedro will start by going over our fourth quarter and full-year highlights.

首先，佩德羅將回顧我們第四季和全年的亮點。

Afterwards, I will go over our financial highlights.

之後，我將介紹我們的財務亮點。

Immediately after, we will open the call for questions from analysts.

隨後，我們將開始接受分析師的提問。

Copa Holdings' financial reports have been prepared in accordance with international financial reporting standards.

Copa Holdings 的財務報告是依照國際財務報告準則編製的。

In today's call, we will discuss non-IFRS financial measures.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將討論非國際財務報告準則的財務指標。

A reconciliation of the non-IFRS to IFRS financial measures can be found in our earnings release. which has been posted on the company's website, copaair.com.

在我們的收益報告中可以找到非國際財務報告準則與國際財務報告準則財務指標的對帳表。此消息已發佈在該公司的網站 copaair.com 上。

Our discussion today will also contain forward-looking statements, not limited to historical facts that reflect the company's current beliefs, expectations, and or intentions regarding future events and results.

我們今天的討論還將包含前瞻性陳述，不僅限於反映公司當前信念、期望和/或對未來事件和結果的意圖的歷史事實。

These forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially and are based on assumptions subject to change.

這些前瞻性陳述涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果大不相同，並且基於可能變化的假設。

Many of these are discussed in our annual report filed with the SEC.

我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度報告中討論了其中的許多內容。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Mr. Pedro Heilbron.

現在我想將電話轉給我們的執行長 Pedro Heilbron 先生。

Thank you, Daniel.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。

Good morning to all, and thanks for participating in our fourth quarter and full-year earnings call.

大家早安，感謝您參加我們的第四季和全年財報電話會議。

Before I start, I want to welcome Peter Donkerslott into his new role at CFO.

首先，我想歡迎 Peter Donkerslott 擔任財務長的新職務。

Peter has a strong record of leadership and strategic vision, having held key positions with full P&L responsibility in multiple countries across the continent, for a large publicly traded company, and for the last five years as Copa head of HR, where he has been an integral part of our success coming out of the pandemic.

Peter 擁有出色的領導能力和戰略眼光，曾在非洲大陸多個國家的一家大型上市公司擔任過全面負責損益的重要職位，並在過去五年中擔任 Copa 的人力資源主管，他是我們成功走出疫情的關鍵人物之一。

His understanding of our operations and company culture, combined with his strong financial acumen, makes him uniquely qualified to lead our financial strategy as we continue to grow and evolve in a rapidly changing industry.

他對我們的營運和公司文化的了解，加上他強大的財務敏銳度，使他成為領導我們財務策略的獨特人選，幫助我們在快速變化的行業中不斷發展和進步。

We're excited to have him step into this new role and look forward to the positive impact he will undoubtedly bring.

我們很高興他能擔任這項新職務，並期待他無疑會帶來正面影響。

Peter will officially join the finance team on March 10, following his transition from his current role in HR.

Peter 將從目前的人力資源職位調任，並於 3 月 10 日正式加入財務團隊。

Peter, I'll turn it over to you.

彼得，我將把它交給你。

Thank you, Pedro, and thanks, everybody, for joining our call today.

謝謝佩德羅，也謝謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。

It has been a great honor to lead Copa's HR team for the last five years, and I'm truly excited to take on the role of CFO.

在過去五年裡，領導 Copa 的人力資源團隊是莫大的榮幸，我很高興能擔任財務長一職。

As Pedro mentioned, in addition to my most recent experience leading the HR team, I've worked in many countries through the continent as general manager, as well as overseeing commercial operations, logistics, risk assessment, and financial planning.

正如佩德羅所提到的，除了我最近領導人力資源團隊的經驗之外，我還曾在非洲大陸的許多國家擔任總經理，並負責監督商業營運、物流、風險評估和財務規劃。

As you can imagine, as a Panamanian, I'm very proud to be part of Copa's management team, especially given our track record of delivering product and connectivity our customers value, combined with strong financial results and industry-leading unit cost.

你可以想像，作為一名巴拿馬人，我很自豪能夠成為 Copa 管理團隊的一員，尤其是考慮到我們在提供客戶重視的產品和連接方面的良好記錄，以及強勁的財務業績和行業領先的單位成本。

I'm eager to lead our finance team in building on the strong foundations and continue to deliver value to our shareholders.

我渴望帶領我們的財務團隊在堅實的基礎上再接再厲，繼續為我們的股東創造價值。

Back to you, Pedro.

回到你身邊，佩德羅。

Thank you, Peter.

謝謝你，彼得。

I want to start by expressing my sincere appreciation to all our coworkers.

首先我要向我們所有的同事表達最誠摯的感謝。

Their dedication and hard work have been essential to Copa's leadership in Latin American aviation and strong financial results.

他們的奉獻和努力對於 Copa 在拉丁美洲航空領域的領先地位和強勁的財務業績至關重要。

To them, as always, my highest regards and admiration.

一如既往，向他們致以最崇高的敬意和欽佩。

As detailed in our earnings release, we delivered another quarter and full year of solid financial performance, including strong operating margins.

正如我們的收益報告中所詳述的那樣，我們又一個季度和全年取得了穩健的財務業績，包括強勁的營業利潤率。

Despite facing several challenges throughout the year, such as the partial grounding of our 737 MAX 9 fleet in January and the sudden cancellation of flights between Panama and Venezuela at the end of July, we were able to deliver an operating margin of 21.9% for the year.

儘管全年面臨多重挑戰，例如 1 月份我們的 737 MAX 9 機隊部分停飛，以及 7 月底巴拿馬與委內瑞拉之間的航班​​突然取消，但我們仍實現了 21.9% 的全年營業利潤率。

Our 2024 financial results are a testament to the disciplined execution of our business model, our focus on low unit cost, continued expansion of our leading hub of the Americas, and a passenger-friendly product, including best on time performance.

我們的 2024 年財務表現證明了我們業務模式的嚴格執行、對低單位成本的關注、對美洲領先樞紐的持續擴張以及對乘客友好的產品，包括最佳準時表現。

The combination of these factors has allowed us to deliver strong financial results on a consistent basis.

這些因素的結合使得我們能夠持續提供強勁的財務表現。

Now I'll go over the main highlights for the fourth quarter.

現在我將回顧一下第四季的主要亮點。

We increased capacity by 7.2% year-over-year.

我們的運能年增了 7.2%。

Unit revenues, or RASM, came in at $0.113 a 10.4% decrease compared to Q4-23, mainly driven by a 10.8% year-over-year decrease in passenger yields.

單位收入（RASM）為 0.113 美元，與 23 年第四季相比下降 10.4%，主要原因是客運收益率年減 10.8%。

The yield reduction was mainly driven by weaker currencies in Latin America as well as increased industry capacity in the region.

收益率下降主要是由於拉丁美洲貨幣貶值以及該地區工業產能增加。

Unit revenues were also impacted by the ongoing effect of the rescheduling of flights due to the cancellation of the Panama-Venezuela operations at the end of July.

由於7月底巴拿馬-委內瑞拉航班取消，航班重新安排的持續影響也對單位收入產生了影響。

Unit costs, excluding fuel, or CASAM-X, came in at $0.059 a 2.6% improvement compared to Q4-23, mainly driven by the increase of direct sales in both Copa.com and our lower-cost NDC travel agency channel.

不包括燃料或 CASAM-X 的單位成本為 0.059 美元，與 23 年第四季相比成長了 2.6%，這主要得益於 Copa.com 和我們低成本的 NDC 旅行社管道的直銷成長。

Our operating margin for the quarter came in at 23.3%.

本季我們的營業利益率為 23.3%。

As for the full year 2024, capacity increased by 8.6% year-over-year, in line with our last guidance.

展望 2024 年全年，運能將年增 8.6%，符合我們上次的預期。

Unit revenues, or RASM, decreased by 8.2% compared to 2023 to $0.115. CASA mixed fuel came in at $0.058, 3% below 2023.

單位收入（RASM）與 2023 年相比下降了 8.2% 至 0.115 美元。 CASA 混合燃料價格為 0.058 美元，比 2023 年低 3%。

This is a milestone achievement for us. as we delivered our full-year CAS Amex target one year earlier than stated in our 2023 investor days.

對我們來說這是一個里程碑式的成就。我們實現了全年 CAS Amex 目標，比 2023 年投資者日所述的目標提前了一年。

And as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we achieved a 21.9% operating margin for the year.

正如我在開場白中提到的，我們今年的營業利潤率達到了 21.9%。

On the operational front, Copa was recently recognized by Cerium for the 10th time as the most on-time airline in Latin America for 2024.

在營運方面，巴拿馬航空最近第十次被 Cerium 評為 2024 年拉丁美洲最準時的航空公司。

Copa's on-time performance of 88.2% was once again the highest of any carrier in the Americas and the third best in the world.

巴拿馬航空的準點率為 88.2%，再次位居美洲航空之首，並位居全球第三。

Additionally, for 2024, Copa was recognized by SkyTrack for the ninth consecutive year as the best airline in Central America and the Caribbean.

此外，2024 年，巴拿馬航空連續第九年被 SkyTrack 評為中美洲和加勒比海地區最佳航空公司。

These awards belong to our more than 8,000 co-workers, who day in and day out consistently deliver a world-class travel experience for our customers.

這些獎項屬於我們 8,000 多名員工，他們日復一日地持續為我們的客戶提供世界級的旅行體驗。

Turning over to our expectations for 2025, in terms of demand, we're projecting a continuation of the current demand environment in the region.

談到我們對 2025 年的預期，就需求而言，我們預計該地區當前的需求環境將持續下去。

On the cost front, we expect to deliver consistent unit costs year-over-year, maintaining our cost discipline, These two factors together lead us to once again expect to deliver strong margins for the year, as well as continued growth, as we anticipate growing our year-over-year capacity within a range of 7% to 8%.

在成本方面，我們預計單位成本將與上年同期保持一致，保持成本紀律。

Daniel will provide more details regarding our full year guidance.

丹尼爾將提供有關我們全年指導的更多詳細資訊。

To summarize, we delivered strong first quarter and full year 2024 financial results, We continue to execute on our cost efficiencies, which remain key to our strategy going forward.

總而言之，我們取得了強勁的第一季和 2024 年全年財務業績，我們持續提高成本效率，這仍然是我們未來策略的關鍵。

We will keep growing our network, the most complete and convenient hub for travel in the Americas.

我們將繼續擴大我們的網絡，成為美洲最齊全、最方便的旅行樞紐。

We expect to deliver strong financial results in 2025.

我們預計 2025 年將取得強勁的財務業績。

And as always, our team continues to deliver world-leading operational results and a passenger-friendly product.

和往常一樣，我們的團隊繼續提供世界領先的營運業績和乘客友好的產品。

Now I'll pass it over to Daniel, who will go over our financial highlights.

現在我將把主題交給丹尼爾，他將介紹我們的財務亮點。

Thank you, Pedro.

謝謝你，佩德羅。

We reported a net profit for Q4 of $166.2 million, or $3.99 per share.

我們報告第四季度淨利潤為 1.662 億美元，即每股 3.99 美元。

For the full year, our net profit came in at $608.5 million, or $14.56 per share.

全年我們的淨利潤為 6.085 億美元，即每股 14.56 美元。

In terms of operating income, We reported an operating profit for the quarter of $204.2 million and an operating margin of 23.3%.

在營業收入方面，我們報告本季的營業利潤為 2.042 億美元，營業利潤率為 23.3%。

Our operating profit for the full year came in at $753.4 million and 21.9% of operating margin.

我們全年營業利潤為 7.534 億美元，營業利益率為 21.9%。

Turning now to our balance sheet.

現在來看看我們的資產負債表。

As of the end of the year, we had over $1.4 billion in cash, short and long-term investments. which represents 42% of the company's last 12-month revenues.

截至年底，我們擁有超過 14 億美元的現金、短期和長期投資。這佔該公司過去 12 個月收入的 42%。

In terms of debt, we ended the year with $2 billion in debt and lease liabilities and adjusted that debt-to-EBITDA ratio of 0.5 times.

在債務方面，我們年底的債務和租賃負債為 20 億美元，並調整了債務與 EBITDA 比率為 0.5 倍。

Our average cost of debt entirely related to aircraft financing remains highly competitive at an average rate of 3.5%.

我們完全與飛機融資相關的平均債務成本仍然具有很強的競爭力，平均利率為 3.5%。

Approximately 65% of this debt is fixed rate.

其中約65%的債務是固定利率。

Regarding our fleet, we received two additional 737 MAX 8s in the fourth quarter to end the year with a total fleet of 112 aircraft.

關於我們的機隊，我們在第四季又接收了兩架 737 MAX 8，至年底機隊總數為 112 架飛機。

Looking ahead to 2025, we expect to receive 13 additional 737 MAX 8s, starting with two in June, and one additional Boeing 737-800 freighter.

展望 2025 年，我們預計將接收 13 架額外的 737 MAX 8，其中 6 月將接收兩架，此外還將接收一架波音 737-800 貨機。

With these additions, we expect the year-end fleet to reach 126 aircraft.

加上這些新增飛機，我們預計年底機隊飛機數量將達到 126 架。

As of now, we have secured an operating lease agreement for the additional freighter, in financing for three of the Boeing 737 MAX 8 deliveries via JOCO financing.

截至目前，我們已獲得額外貨機的經營租賃協議，並透過 JOCO 融資為三架波音 737 MAX 8 的交付提供融資。

Turning now to the return of value to our shareholders, I am pleased to announce that for 2025, the Board of Directors has approved a quarterly dividend payment of $1.61 per share to be paid in the months of March, June, September, and December, subject to the Board ratification each quarter.

現在談到對股東的價值回報，我很高興地宣布，對於 2025 年，董事會已批准每季派發每股 1.61 美元的股息，分三月、六月、九月和十二月支付，但須經董事會每季批准。

I'd like to highlight that this maintains last year's dividend payout.

我想強調的是，這維持了去年的股利支付。

The first quarterly payment will be made on March 14th to all shareholders of record as of February 28th.

第一次季度付款將於 3 月 14 日向截至 2 月 28 日登記在冊的所有股東支付。

Furthermore, during 2024, the company has repurchased $87 million of its ongoing $200 million share repurchase program, which represented approximately 2% of the total outstanding shares as of the end of 2024. $37 million of the $87 million were executed in the fourth quarter.

此外，2024 年，該公司已回購了其正在進行的 2 億美元股票回購計畫中的 8,700 萬美元，約佔 2024 年底總流通股的 2%。

Finally, turning to our outlook.

最後，談談我們的展望。

Consistent with what Pedro shared, we can provide the following guidance for the full year 2025.

與 Pedro 分享的內容一致，我們可以為 2025 年全年提供以下指導。

We expect to increase our capacity in ASMs within a range of 7% to 8% year-over-year, and we expect to deliver an operating margin within a range of 20% to 22%.

我們預計 ASM 產能將年增 7% 至 8%，並且預計營業利潤率將達到 20% 至 22%。

We are basing our outlook on the following assumptions. load factor of approximately 86.5%, unit revenues of around $0.113, Casamix fuel of approximately $0.058, and we're expecting an all-in fuel price of $2.60 per gallon.

我們的觀點是基於以下假設。載客率約為 86.5%，單位收入約為 0.113 美元，Casamix 燃料約為 0.058 美元，我們預計全包燃料價格為每加侖 2.60 美元。

Thank you, and now we'll open the call for questions from us.

謝謝，現在我們開始回答大家的提問。

(Operator Instructions) Savanthi Syth, Raymond James.

(操作員指示) Savanthi Syth，Raymond James。

Please proceed.

請繼續。

Hey, good morning, everyone, and congratulations to Peter.

嘿，大家早安，祝賀彼得。

We look forward to working with you.

我們期待與您合作。

If I might, on the suite details that you shared, it looks like the max is still a little bit lower than you thought in August, but a little bit more.

如果可以的話，就您分享的套件詳細資訊而言，最大值似乎仍然比您在八月份想像的要低一點，但也高一點。

Is that kind of the color that Boeing is giving you?

這就是波音公司給你的顏色嗎？

And then, as you looked at 2026, it looks like only six So curious why the slower delivery expectation and just general thoughts on how you're thinking about this capacity growth.

然後，當你看 2026 年時，它看起來只有六個，所以好奇為什麼交付預期會更慢，以及你對這種產能成長的看法。

Right.

正確的。

So without making you call Boeing so they explain the delivery schedule, we're actually okay with the schedule we're getting.

因此，無需您致電波音公司讓他們解釋交貨時間表，我們實際上對我們收到的時間表感到滿意。

So it's 13 aircraft, this year, most in the second half of the year, so we'll get two in June and the other 11 in the second half of the year.

所以今年一共有 13 架飛機，大部分將在下半年交付，所以我們將在 6 月獲得兩架，另外 11 架將在下半年獲得。

But many will be in the fourth quarter, and at least two of the aircraft are going to fly early in 2026.

但許多飛機將在第四季度投入飛行，並且至少有兩架飛機將在 2026 年初投入飛行。

So we could think it's 11 this year and eight in 2026 in terms of when we're going to activate them.

因此，就啟動時間而言，我們可以認為今年會有 11 個，到 2026 年會有 8 個。

And we feel that's okay in terms of the opportunities we see for additional frequencies and new destinations.

我們認為，從增加航班頻率和開闢新目的地的機會來看，這沒什麼問題。

We're perfectly fine with that delivery schedule.

我們對該交貨時間表非常滿意。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And just maybe a follow-up related to that, on the CapEx side, is the thinking then still for this year, mostly unchanged or does that move up?

也許與此相關的後續問題，在資本支出方面，今年的想法是否仍然基本不變，還是會上升？

I think the last time it was, I think that gross CapEx may be closer to $900 million and cash CapEx of 350.

我認為上一次的情況是，總資本支出可能接近 9 億美元，現金資本支出為 3.5 億美元。

And is that like a good way to think about next year as well?

這是否也是思考明年的好方法？

Hi, it's Daniel here.

你好，我是丹尼爾。

So yes, CapEx for this year, it's a pumpkin chain.

是的，今年的資本支出是一條南瓜鏈。

Could be a little bit lower within the $850 million range.

可能會稍微低一些，在 8.5 億美元的範圍內。

Cash CapEx, probably around $200 million.

現金資本支出大概在 2 億美元左右。

For next year, it's going to be lower, given we have only six deliveries.

考慮到我們只有六次交付，明年的數量將會更低。

So that's going to be approximately $450 million next year.

因此明年這一數字將達到約 4.5 億美元。

Very helpful.

非常有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Duane Pfennigwerth, Evercore ISI.

Duane Pfennigwerth，Evercore ISI。

Please proceed.

請繼續。

Hi, good morning.

嗨，早安。

I wonder if you could speak to the sequential trend in RASM relative to the fourth quarter decline, and the prospects for an inflection in the back half of this year.

我想知道您是否可以談談 RASM 相對於第四季度下滑的連續趨勢，以及今年下半年出現轉折點的前景。

Okay.

好的。

So as you know, we give yearly RASM guidance, not quarterly guidance, but in general terms, etc. Our guidance and what we see, especially in the second half of 2024, was the impact of currency weakness in our region. in Brazil and a few other countries, but also additional capacity, industry capacity in general.

因此，如您所知，我們提供年度 RASM 指導，而不是季度指導，而是一般性指導等。 我們的指導以及我們所看到的，特別是在 2024 年下半年，是我們地區貨幣疲軟的影響。在巴西和其他一些國家，而且還有額外的產能，整體而言是產業產能。

That includes our own growth and other earnings in the markets that are relevant to Copa, which are the ones we focus on.

其中包括我們自身的成長以及與 Copa 相關的市場的其他收益，這些也是我們關注的重點。

And we're assuming kind of the same trend to continue this year, maybe a slightly improvement in the first quarter.

我們預計今年同樣的趨勢將會持續，第一季可能會略有改善。

But overall, pretty much the same trend. rightly so that there could be a positive inflection point in the second half of the year if everything goes the right way.

但總體而言，趨勢幾乎相同。如果一切進展順利，那麼今年下半年可能會出現正面的轉折點。

So we are guiding for kind of more of the same and not for a significant recuperation on currencies or strength of demand or capacity slowing down.

因此，我們預期未來會出現更多類似的情況，而不是貨幣大幅回升、需求增強或產能放緩。

But if those things change, yes, the second half could be better.

但如果這些情況發生改變，那麼下半年可能會更好。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Guilherme Mendes, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的吉列爾梅門德斯 (Guilherme Mendes)。

Please proceed.

請繼續。

Hey, thanks, everyone, and best wishes to Peter on this new role.

嘿，謝謝大家，並祝彼得在新的職位上一切順利。

Pedro, you mentioned several times about the, let's say, excessive capacity in some of the regions that you compete, potentially impact yields in RASP into this year.

佩德羅，您多次提到，您所競爭的一些地區的產能過剩可能會影響今年 RASP 的殖利率。

Can you please provide more color on which regions or which routes exactly are you seeing more, let's say, over capacity or a tougher competitive environment?

您能否詳細說明哪些地區或哪些航線的情況更嚴重，例如運力過剩或競爭環境更加激烈？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Right.

正確的。

So well, usually when we talk about our region, it's, of course, the Americas where we operate, and it includes North America, Central, South, and the Caribbean.

通常當我們談論我們的地區時，當然是指我們經營所在的美洲，它包括北美洲、中美洲、南美洲和加勒比地區。

It changes, obviously.

顯然，它會發生變化。

There might be a country in particular that gets more capacity at a given time, but it usually comes from the whole region, and it's hard to separate by specific countries.

可能某個國家在特定時間內獲得了更多的產能，但通常來自整個地區，很難按具體國家進行區分。

But what we have seen is that even though overall industry capacity has been growing somewhere between 5% and 10%, maybe in the 6% to 7% rate, which is similar to what was our growth in 2024.

但我們看到的是，儘管整體產業產能成長率在 5% 至 10% 之間，但可能在 6% 至 7% 之間，這與我們 2024 年的成長率相似。

In some markets in particular, like, for example, Brazil, Colombia, maybe a little bit in Brazil and Colombia mostly.

在某些特定市場，例如巴西、哥倫比亞，可能主要在巴西和哥倫比亞有一點。

I would say maybe Central America also.

我想說也許還包括中美洲。

We have seen capacity growth more close to the 20% range.

我們看到產能成長更接近20%的範圍。

And that, in some cases, includes some of our own capacity, I must say.

我必須說，在某些情況下，這也包括我們自己的部分能力。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tom Fitzgerald, TD Cowen.

湯姆·菲茨杰拉德（TD Cowen）。

Please proceed.

請繼續。

Hi, thanks so much for the time.

你好，非常感謝您抽出時間。

Would you just mind updating us how you think about managing your inventory and revenue management broadly, just given the FX volatility that we've seen in some of your major markets like Brazil or Mexico?

考慮到我們在巴西和墨西哥等一些主要市場看到的外匯波動，您能否向我們介紹您對庫存和收入管理的看法？

The FX volatility we were exposed to last year was higher and the impact to the bottom line greater than what we had seen in a while.

去年我們面臨的外匯波動比以往更高，對利潤的影響也更大。

I believe the year before 23 was almost nothing.

我相信 23 歲之前的一年幾乎什麼都沒有。

This year we're actually off to a better start.

今年我們的開局確實更好。

We have made up for some of the losses in 24.

我們已經在24年彌補了部分損失。

So it's mostly translational.

因此它主要是翻譯性的。

Sorry for that again.

再次向您致歉。

And so it depends on our net asset value and on our average net asset value.

所以這取決於我們的淨值和我們的平均淨值價值。

So some of the currencies have strengthened this first month.

因此部分貨幣在第一個月就已走強。

So some we've made up, but it's very hard to predict.

因此我們已經制定了一些計劃，但是很難預測。

And we, I must say, we price in dollars.

我必須說，我們以美元定價。

We're pricing dollars, but it's sold in the local currency at the dollar exchange rate for that day, but our net assets get impacted in that translation.

我們以美元定價，但以當天的美元匯率以當地貨幣出售，但我們的淨資產會受到這種折算的影響。

We don't really plan for that, and I don't think there's much we can do except, for example, in Brazil, where we sell in installments, we do hedge half of our Brazilian sales. of the loss that you see in our P&L, close to $5 million shows up in a different line because that's our hedge gain from our Brazilian currency hedge.

我們實際上並沒有為此做計劃，而且我認為我們能做的並不多，但例如在巴西，我們以分期付款的方式銷售，我們對巴西一半的銷售額進行了對沖。您在我們的損益表中看到的損失中，有近 500 萬美元出現在另一條線上，因為這是我們從巴西貨幣對沖中獲得的對沖收益。

So the net impact is really closer to 28 for the year than 33.

因此，今年的淨影響實際上更接近 28，而不是 33。

Okay, that's really helpful.

好的，這確實很有幫助。

Thanks so much for that, Collar.

非常感謝，Collar。

And just as a follow-up, what are you hearing from some of your corporate clients and the multinationals in the region, just how they're thinking about business travel and demand, just given all the noise around tariffs and geopolitics?

作為後續問題，您從該地區的一些企業客戶和跨國公司聽到了什麼？

Thanks again for the time.

再次感謝您抽出時間。

Yes, we're very much in intra-Latin America. , and what we're seeing, I would say, is in terms of percent of business traffic and our corporate accounts, are flat pretty much right now, year over year, and we're not expecting growth there.

是的，我們主要位於拉丁美洲內部。我想說的是，我們看到的是，就商業流量和公司帳戶的百分比而言，目前與去年同期相比基本持平，而且我們預計不會出現成長。

We think it's going to remain flat.

我們認為它將保持平穩。

I mean, there will be growth tied to our capacity, but not in share of revenue.

我的意思是，成長將與我們的產能掛鉤，但與收入份額無關。

So what we're hearing, it doesn't really change the picture in intra-Latin America and US to Latin America traffic.

因此，我們聽到的並沒有真正改變拉丁美洲內部以及美國與拉丁美洲之間的交通狀況。

Alberto Valerio, UBS.

瑞銀的 Alberto Valerio。

Hi.

你好。

Thank you for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

I had one on traffic, the guidance that you guys provide.

我有一個關於交通的，這是你們提供的指導。

You just released the traffic for January and become really strong.

您剛剛發布了 1 月份的流量並變得非常強大。

I remember that you had some issues on last year, but looking forward in a seasonality basis, the guidance was a little bit conservative. and NIR on this assumption for the year as the January or January was stronger than usual for the month.

我記得去年你們遇到了一些問題，但從季節性角度來看，預期有點保守。而 NIR 對今年的這一假設持樂觀態度，因為 1 月或 1 月的表現比往年更強勁。

Yes, January is impacted by the max rounding in January 24.

是的，1 月受到 1 月 24 日最大捨入的影響。

So and it's a footnote in our traffic release because, of course, that 20-something percent ASM growth, it's only because of that, of the group grounding in January.

因此，這是我們流量發布中的一個腳註，因為當然，ASM 成長 20% 左右，只是因為 1 月集團停飛。

But for the year, when we average out that for the whole year, we're getting to 7% to growth.

但就全年而言，當我們平均計算時，我們的成長率達到了 7%。

That's based on the deliveries of the aircraft deliveries that we have scheduled for this year.

這是基於我們今年計劃的飛機交付。

We are not expecting that to change much.

我們並不認為會發生太大的變化。

And since most of the deliveries are at the end of the year, even if there were additional delays, the impact will be small in our ASM guidance for this year.

而且由於大多數交付都是在年底，即使有額外的延遲，對我們今年的 ASM 指導的影響也很小。

And my second one is about the yields.

我的第二個問題是關於收益。

You guys have been performing better than the peers lately, and I'm wondering why.

你們最近的表現比同行好，我想知道為什麼。

Lately, I'd say like in the past three years after that, and you mentioned that the mix did not change between the US travelers and the Latin America travelers.

最近，我想說，就像在那之後的過去三年裡，您提到美國遊客和拉丁美洲遊客之間的結構並沒有改變。

But did it change in this long space?

但在這麼長的時間裡它有改變嗎？

We had, for example, more US traders that you used to have before the pandemic at this moment?

比如說，現在我們的美國交易員數量比疫情之前還多嗎？

Yes, my answer, I meant to say or to refer to the mix between business and leisure and VFR year over year from 2024 to 2025.

是的，我的答案是，我的意思是說或指的是 2024 年至 2025 年期間商務、休閒和 VFR 的逐年組合。

We're not seeing a change there.

我們沒有看到那裡有任何變化。

From pre-pandemic, there have been changes, and there is more US traffic.

與疫情之前相比，情況發生了變化，美國的客流量也增加了。

You're right in that.

你說得對。

And we did have a bump up in yields, which was significant right after the pandemic, when there was limited capacity and strong demand.

我們的殖利率確實有所上升，尤其是在疫情過後，產能有限、需求強勁的情況下。

Capacity has caught up with demand pretty much.

產能已經基本趕上需求。

So right now we are kind of back to 2019 yields in a way, but of course our unit costs are much better.

因此現在我們的收益率在某種程度上回到了 2019 年的水平，但當然我們的單位成本要好得多。

So we're delivering much better margins.

因此，我們提供的利潤率更高。

And since the third quarter in 2022, we've been delivering margins over 20%, which is what we're guiding to for 2025 again.

自 2022 年第三季以來，我們的利潤率一直超過 20%，這也是我們對 2025 年的預期。

Michael Linenberg, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的麥可‧林伯格。

Yes.

是的。

Hey.

嘿。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome aboard, Peter.

大家早安，歡迎加入，彼得。

I got to tell you, Pedro, you're probably one of the few airlines on this planet that you're seeing 2019 yields but lower costs.

佩德羅，我得告訴你，你們可能是這個星球上為數不多的在 2019 年實現收益但成本較低的航空公司之一。

So it's almost as if you're from another place.

所以就好像你來自另一個地方一樣。

But with that said, I guess two questions here.

但話雖如此，我想這裡有兩個問題。

When I look at the schedule for Wingo in 2025, it seems like supply is actually running down a bit.

當我查看 2025 年 Wingo 的計劃時，似乎供應量實際上正在下降。

And I'm not sure, is Wingo, is one airplane going into maintenance or something?

我不確定 Wingo 是否有一架飛機需要維修或進行其他操作？

Are you shrinking that fleet or are you just lowering the utilization given the fact that Columbia overall has been an oversupplied market?

鑑於哥倫比亞整體而言是一個供應過剩的市場，你們是否會縮減機隊規模，還是只是降低利用率？

Well, two things. that are going on with Wingo.

嗯，有兩件事。 Wingo 正在發生的事情。

One is that they might be flying more, they are actually, flying a little bit more domestic capacity, which is shorter hauls, so overall less ASMs, and they do have some maintenance, so they will have some aircraft in maintenance, which they do during the low season, and reduce their schedules -- they adjust their schedules to compensate for maintenance aircraft.

一是他們可能會飛行更多，實際上，他們的國內航班運力要多一些，也就是短途飛行，所以總體來說 ASM 較少，而且他們確實需要進行一些維護，所以他們會在淡季對一些飛機進行維護，並減少航班時刻表——他們會調整航班時刻表來補償維護飛機。

So that's probably going on also.

所以這也可能正在發生。

But they're getting a -- they're operating nine 737-800s and they're getting a tenth and 737-800 in the second half of the year.

但是他們正在運營九架 737-800 型飛機，並且在今年下半年將獲得第十架 737-800 型飛機。

And their ASMs overall should be up.

他們的 ASM 總體應該會上升。

For that 10 aircraft, the utilization is not coming down.

對於那10架飛機來說，利用率並沒有下降。

Utilization should be slightly up.

利用率應該會稍微上升。

But anyway, of course, we do not disclose specific WINGO information.

但無論如何，我們當然不會透露具體的WINGO訊息。

So you're probably looking at their published schedules.

因此您可能正在查看他們發布的時間表。

Yes.

是的。

The changes should just be that.

改變應該僅此而已。

So maybe low-season cuts to cover for maintenance, but overall in the year, they will fly more, especially with the 10th aircraft they're getting in the second half of the year.

因此，也許淡季會削減航班以支付維護費用，但總體而言，他們今年的飛行次數會更多，尤其是今年下半年他們將獲得第 10 架飛機。

Okay, and then just, I guess it drives a follow-up.

好的，然後我想這會引起後續行動。

Low-season Colombia, what are those months?

哥倫比亞的淡季是哪幾個月？

You know, we're close to the equator.

你知道，我們離赤道很近。

I always get a little confused.

我總是有點困惑。

What would be the low season?

什麼時候是淡季？

Like right now, then you have Easter that takes April, a good month, and then the second half of the year is usually better than the first half of the year.

就像現在，四月是復活節，這是一個好月份，而且下半年通常比上半年更好。

So there's less low season in the second half of the year.

因此下半年的淡季較少。

Okay.

好的。

And then, Wingo, I know you said you don't really provide results, but we know that, again, it's an oversupplied situation in that market, but we also know Wingo is a lower-cost platform.

然後，Wingo，我知道你說過你並沒有真正提供結果，但我們知道，在那個市場有供過於求的情況，但我們也知道 Wingo 是一個成本較低的平台。

So there may be an incentive, even with additional the capacity in the region there's other markets you can serve with Wingo, that it may be -- there may be a natural incentive to grow Wingo, given that it has maybe a better cost structure than Copa mainline.

因此，可能存在一種激勵機制，即使在該地區增加了運力，但 Wingo 還可以服務其他市場，考慮到 Wingo 的成本結構可能比 Copa 主線更好，因此可能存在一種自然的激勵機制來發展 Wingo。

Is that accurate?

這樣準確嗎？

Well, it is accurate, not by a bunch, by the way. 5.8 is pretty competitive, so not by a bunch.

嗯，順便說一句，它是準確的，但不是很多。 5.8 相當有競爭力，所以差距不大。

We haven't grown Wingo in two years because there is that overcapacity.

由於產能過剩，我們兩年來沒有擴大 Wingo 的業務。

It's growing by one plane, which is not significant.

它只成長了一個層面，但這並不重要。

It's about 10% in the second half of the year. and just because of all the dynamics in the Colombian market, lower yields, overcapacity or new capacity, and the fact that at Copa Holdings we love bottom-line profits, we just don't do crazy things.

下半年大概是10%左右。而且正是因為哥倫比亞市場的各種動態，收益率較低、產能過剩或新產能，以及在 Copa Holdings 我們熱愛底線利潤的事實，我們才不會做瘋狂的事情。

Okay, okay.

好的，好的。

And now my real follow-up, because I know we got down that Wingo rabbit hole, just on cargo to see that you're adding another airplane tariff situation and global trade and all that notwithstanding.

現在我真正的後續問題是，因為我知道我們已經進入了 Wingo 兔子洞，僅在貨運方面就看到你增加了另一種飛機關稅情況和全球貿易等等。

The fact is you must be very pleased with the one airplane, willing to double the capacity.

事實上，您一定對這架飛機非常滿意，並願意將運力增加一倍。

How should we think about cargo revenue?

我們該如何看待貨運收入？

Is that doubling over the next couple of years with the second airplane?

未來幾年內第二架飛機的產量會翻倍嗎？

And can you give us a sense of just like the margins or the profitability on cargo versus pure freighter, I guess I should say, versus your passenger business?

您能否向我們介紹貨運業務與純貨機，或是客運業務的利潤率或獲利能力？

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Okay, yes, Mike.

好的，是的，麥克。

Well, a few things with cargo.

嗯，貨物上有一些東西。

We operate a single 737 Boeing converted freighter.

我們營運一架波音 737 改裝的貨機。

So it's a single plane.

所以它是一架單平面飛機。

Still, most of our cargo revenue comes from the bellies of the passenger fleet, of the passenger flight.

不過，我們大部分的貨運收入還是來自於客運機隊和客運航班的腹艙。

So most of the revenue comes from that.

因此大部分收入都來自於此。

The cargo plane has been very successful.

這架貨機飛行十分成功。

The margins are very high for the cargo plane, and much better than our last.

這架貨機的利潤率非常高，比我們上一架貨機的利潤率高很多。

But it's just one aircraft going to two, so it won't be a significant impact.

但這只是從一架飛機增加到兩架，因此不會造成重大影響。

Our current single freighter is flying over 300 hours per month on average, which is a ton.

我們目前的單架貨機平均每月飛行300多個小時，這是一噸重。

It's a lot for a single plane.

對於一架飛機來說，這已經夠多了。

So once we have the two planes, the average hours per plane will not be nearly as high, and we'll have more backup.

所以，一旦我們有了兩架飛機，每架飛機的平均飛行小時數就不會那麼高，而且我們會有更多的後備力量。

So it will be profitable, the margins are good, but it's not going to be necessarily a significant impact because overall, in the scheme of things, it's one aircraft out of 120 plus.

因此它將是盈利的，利潤率也不錯，但它不一定會產生重大影響，因為總體而言，它只是 120 多架飛機中的一架。

And is that one of your airplanes that's being converted or is that coming from the outside?

這是你們正在改裝的飛機嗎？

Actually, that's a good catch.

事實上，這是一次很好的收穫。

It's coming from the outside.

它是從外面傳來的。

So because of what you said, there's a lot of availability.

所以正如你所說，有很多可用性。

A lot of things were converted, and there's not that much market right now.

很多東西都已經轉換了，現在的市場並不大。

There is in our niche, because our freighter is a niche operation which produces cargo that we also distribute in our passenger flight.

在我們的利基市場中存在這種現象，因為我們的貨機屬於利基運營，它生產的貨物我們也在客運航班中分發。

So we do have the demand, but there was availability, so we're doing an operating lease. of a freighter, and that way we can keep our passenger aircraft, which we need because of the Boeing delays we all know about.

因此，我們確實有需求，但也有可用性，所以我們正在進行經營租賃。貨機，這樣我們就可以保留我們的客機，這是我們所需要的客機，因為我們都知道波音公司的飛機延誤了。

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Sorry for the long questions, but really, thank you very much.

抱歉，問題這麼長，但真的非常感謝您。

Jens Spiess, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Jens Spiess。

Yes.

是的。

Hello.

你好。

Let me congrats on the appointment, Peter.

彼得，讓我祝賀你的任命。

Looking forward to working with you, too, and meeting you in person.

我也期待與您合作並與您親自見面。

I have a question on the VFR in the US We had a Mexican airline mentioning that they saw a bit of weakness since the new administration came into office, something related to immigration concerns.

我對美國的 VFR 有疑問。

I was wondering, obviously you have a very different network, but if you're seeing anything along those lines, along your booking curve.

我想知道，顯然你們有一個非常不同的網絡，但如果你看到任何類似的情況，沿著你的預訂曲線。

Also, yes, let me first start with that.

另外，是的，讓我先從那一點開始。

Thank you.

謝謝。

No, we're not.

不，我們不是。

We're not.

我們不是。

Our US traffic, it has VFR in the VFR seasons, vacations, et cetera.

我們的美國交通在 VFR 季節、假期等都有 VFR。

It also has year-round leisure traffic.

它還擁有全年休閒交通。

And actually, our US network is doing better than before.

事實上，我們的美國網路比以前表現得更好。

Okay, perfect. and just one follow-up.

好的，完美。並且只剩下一個後續行動。

In terms of buybacks, I mean, considering where your leverage is and the cash you're generating, do you see any chance of accelerating a bit your buyback program, the pace?

關於回購，我的意思是，考慮到你的槓桿率和你產生的現金，你是否認為有機會加快你的回購計畫和步伐？

So we have two ways we return value.

所以我們有兩種傳回值的方式。

We have a dividend policy, which it's usually 40% of the previous year's net income.

我們有一個股利政策，通常是上一年淨收入的40％。

This year, as we announced in the earnings release yesterday, we're keeping dividends at the same level as last year, which means that it won't be 40% of last year's net income.

今年，正如我們昨天的收益報告中宣布的那樣，我們將保持股息與去年保持相同的水平，這意味著股息不會達到去年淨收入的 40％。

It will be 44%. and then we have a buyback program of which we also communicated that we have executed $87 million out of the $200 million that is approved.

將是44%。然後我們有一個回購計劃，我們也傳達了我們已經執行了批准的 2 億美元中的 8700 萬美元。

So we have another $113 million available.

因此我們還有另外1.13億美元可用。

So what we do in terms of your question is that we look at our dividend policy We look at our available liquidity, taking into account our CapEx needs.

所以，就您的問題而言，我們會研究我們的股利政策，研究我們的可用流動性，同時考慮到我們的資本支出需求。

Given that we've had delays in Boeing deliveries, we have more liquidity than when we had projected, what we had projected maybe a year or two years ago.

鑑於波音公司的交付有所延遲，我們的流動性比我們預計的要多，也許比我們一兩年前預計的要多。

So that's a reason for our die-back program, which is in place. and I expect that buyback program to be finalized or executed throughout this year.

這就是我們實施枯萎病計劃的原因。我預計回購計劃將在今年完成或執行。

Okay, perfect.

好的，完美。

So the $200 million would be completed this year.

因此這2億美元將在今年完成。

Does it have a limit, a time limit?

它有限制嗎？

There's no time limit.

沒有時間限制。

No, there's no time limit.

不，沒有時間限制。

All right, great.

好的，太好了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You bet.

當然。

Daniel McKenzie, Seaport Global.

麥肯齊 (Daniel McKenzie)，Seaport Global。

Oh, hey, guys.

哦，嘿，夥計們。

Thanks for the time here.

感謝您在這裡付出的時間。

A couple questions.

幾個問題。

First off, with respect to growth this year, can you share any perspective on the percent of growth tied to frequencies versus newer markets or just some of the thought process behind where that growth is going, perhaps maybe to stronger economies in the region?

首先，關於今年的成長，您能否分享一下與頻率相關的成長百分比與新市場的關係，或者只是分享一下這種成長背後的一些思考過程，也許與該地區更強勁的經濟有關？

Hi, Dan.

你好，丹。

Daniel here.

這裡是丹尼爾。

So yes, so the 7% to 8% growth is around two-thirds.

是的，7% 到 8% 的成長率大約是三分之二。

It's going to be full-year effect, as Pedro alluded to, and around another 20% is going to be frequencies in markets we fly today, and then the rest is some gauge because we have a higher seat count and paragraph and some new destinations, of course.

正如佩德羅所提到的那樣，這將是全年的影響，另外大約 20% 將是我們今天飛行的市場的頻率，然後剩下的是一些衡量標準，因為我們有更高的座位數和航段，當然還有一些新的目的地。

The second question here, Pedro, going back to the earnings overhangs that have been called out over the past year and today, I know you have been through a lot of cycles.

第二個問題，佩德羅，回顧過去一年和今天所提到的盈利懸而未決的問題，我知道你已經經歷了很多周期。

Just sticking to what's public in the local news there with respect to the Panamanian and Venezuelan governments, first off, is the Panamanian government working with Venezuela for normalized relations at this point?

我們只是堅持當地新聞中關於巴拿馬和委內瑞拉政府的公開報道，首先，巴拿馬政府目前是否正在與委內瑞拉合作恢復正常關係？

Again, whatever is publicly available.

再次強調，一切可公開取得的東西。

And then just on FX, is it as simple as just letting it annualize, or is there an economic growth dynamic that could offset some of that weakness faster than perhaps you would think?

那麼就外匯而言，是否只要讓它年化就那麼簡單，或者是否存在經濟成長動力，可以比你想像的更快地抵消部分疲軟影響？

Well, in terms of Venezuela, I'm not aware that there are any conversations to normalize relations.

嗯，就委內瑞拉而言，我不知道雙方是否有任何旨在實現關係正常化的對話。

We would like to see that, of course, but that's kind of like above our paycheck.

我們當然願意看到這一點，但這有點超出我們的薪水了。

So no, I don't think there's anything going on right now.

所以不，我認為現在沒有發生任何事情。

Hopefully, before the year is over, we'll be able to return to that very important market where we had service to five cities, 42 flights per week before the southern cancellation at the end of July.

希望在今年結束之前，我們能夠重返這個非常重要的市場，在七月底南部航班取消之前，我們已經在那裡運營了五個城市的航線，每周有 42 個航班。

So I'm hopeful that at some point, but there's no light at the end of the tunnel right now.

所以我對此抱有希望，但目前隧道盡頭還沒有光亮。

The FX question?

外匯問題？

Yes, I just was asking.

是的，我剛才問問看。

Go ahead.

前進。

Yes, can you repeat?

是的，你能重複一遍嗎？

Yes, sorry.

是的，抱歉。

I was just asking if it's as simple as just letting it annualize before we see an improvement, or whether there was economic growth dynamic that could offset some of that FX weakness.

我只是問，這是否就像讓它年化然後我們才能看到改善一樣簡單，或者是否存在可以抵消部分外匯疲軟的經濟成長動力。

Right.

正確的。

I mean, it's something that's going to happen at the end of every quarter.

我的意思是，這是每個季度末都會發生的事情。

So there could be a good guy at the end of this quarter, depending on the currencies, but then at the end of the year, we'll have the final number.

因此，本季末可能會有一個好結果，具體取決於貨幣，但在年底，我們將獲得最終的數字。

I see.

我懂了。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks for the time, you guys.

謝謝你們的時間。

Stephen Trent, Citi.

花旗銀行的史蒂芬‧特倫特 (Stephen Trent)。

Good morning, gentlemen.

先生們，早安。

Thank you very much for your time, and Peter as well.

非常感謝您和 Peter 抽出時間。

Welcome, and looking forward to working with you.

歡迎您的光臨，並期待與您的合作。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Just one or two from me.

我只說一兩個。

First, I was curious, when you guys think about your jet fuel kerosene expense, I know you don't service like Brazil domestic where jet fuel kerosene is super high.

首先，我很好奇，當你們考慮你們的航空燃料煤油費用時，我知道你們不像巴西國內那樣提供航空燃料煤油價格極高的服務。

But do you have any sort of outlier markets where your jet fuel kerosene is sort of measurably more expensive than sort of the general level?

但是，是否存在某些異常市場，在這些市場中，航空燃料煤油的價格明顯比一般水平高出很多？

I think what's important, Stephen, is that we're not at a disadvantage anywhere and there isn't like a market I mean, the one market that would be critical for us is our home market, our hub market here in Panama, but Panama is a competitive market due to geographic location, and the logistics of Panama.

史蒂芬，我認為重要的是我們在任何地方都沒有處於劣勢，也沒有像我所說的那樣，對我們來說至關重要的市場是我們的本土市場，我們在巴拿馬的樞紐市場，但巴拿馬是一個競爭激烈的市場，因為地理位置和巴拿馬的物流。

We are a transshipment point and there's a lot of storage capacity and oil companies.

我們是一個轉運點，擁有大量的儲存能力和石油公司。

So we are not at a disadvantage where it's most important.

因此在最重要的事情上我們並不處於劣勢。

We're actually in a competitive market.

我們實際上處於一個競爭激烈的市場。

So we're okay in that sense.

從這個意義上來說我們還不錯。

Great, Pedro.

太好了，佩德羅。

Appreciate that.

非常感謝。

You know, and maybe another kind of a follow-up to what Dan was asking.

你知道，這也許是對丹所問問題的另一個後續回答。

You know, when we think about sort of the geopolitical changes or political changes in the Americas, and one thing people are kind of looking at are M&A and alliances and what have you, and I know you and United Airlines have a very good one.

你知道，當我們思考美洲的地緣政治變化或政治變化時，人們關注的一件事就是併購和聯盟，我知道你和美國聯合航空公司有著非常好的合作關係。

Do you see any possibility to make any pivots here in terms of how much you could collaborate with them or maybe there are additional layers you could add to that today versus what you could have done over the previous four years perhaps?

您是否認為可以在與他們進行多大程度的合作方面做出任何調整，或者與您過去四年所做的相比，今天是否可以增加更多的層次？

Yes, we have, as you mentioned, we have a very strong relationship with United.

是的，正如您所說，我們與美聯航保持著非常牢固的關係。

It goes back 25 years from the Continental days. and I think it's pretty complete in that we co-share, we have total reciprocity in our frequent flyer programs, we even at times can plan capacity additions like the San Francisco PTY service that United is going to start in May and it's going to connect their strong Asian network with Panama and from here we're connected with South America.

它可以追溯到歐洲大陸時期的 25 年前。我認為這個合作關係非常完整，因為我們共同分享，我們的常旅客計劃完全互惠，我們有時甚至可以計劃增加運力，比如美聯航將於 5 月份開通的舊金山 PTY 服務，它將把美聯航強大的亞洲網絡與巴拿馬連接起來，從這裡我們可以與南美洲相連。

So it's not a JBA or anything like that, but we're very happy with the relationship.

所以這不是 JBA 或類似的東西，但我們對這種關係非常滿意。

So I think that's really fine and in a good place.

所以我認為這確實很好並且處於一個很好的狀態。

In terms of some of the other stuff that's going on, we're always happy with where we are.

就正在發生的其他一些事情而言，我們始終對現狀感到滿意。

We cooperate with European carriers.

我們與歐洲航空公司合作。

We cooperate with the Brazilian carriers.

我們與巴西的承運商合作。

In that sense, we tend to do what's best for the business and in a very open-minded way, knowing that to cooperate is a two-way street.

從這個意義上講，我們傾向於以非常開放的方式做對企業最有利的事情，因為我們知道合作是雙向的。

We try to make others better and the same for ourselves. especially with earnings we do not compete against and that we can be complementary.

我們努力讓別人變得更好，同樣，我們自己也一樣。特別是在收入方面，我們不會互相競爭，而且可以互補。

I don't know if I'm answering your question or I'm going around circles, but you can be more specific if you want, Stephen.

我不知道我是否回答了你的問題，或者我是否在繞圈子，但如果你願意的話，你可以更具體一點，史蒂芬。

No, no.

不，不。

That was great, Pedro.

太棒了，佩德羅。

Just sort of wanted to get the high-level view on that.

只是想了解高層對此的看法。

That was perfect.

那太完美了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And this concludes our Q&A session, and I will turn it back to Pedro Heilbron for his final comments.

我們的問答環節到此結束，我將把時間交還給 Pedro Heilbron，請他發表最後的評論。

Okay, thank you all.

好的，謝謝大家。

As always, thanks for participating in our quarterly call, for your continued support.

像往常一樣，感謝您參加我們的季度電話會議，感謝您一直以來的支持。

Peter will start March 10. and he'll be very available, of course, and he knows Copa very well.

彼得將於 3 月 10 日開始比賽。

He's been with us five years, and I know you will enjoy working with him.

他已經和我們共事五年了，我知道你會喜歡和他一起工作。

And of course, Daniel, which did an excellent backup to Jose today.

當然還有丹尼爾，他今天為何塞提供了出色的支援。

Thank you, Daniel.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。

You know Daniel very well, so he's also available, as I am myself.

你很了解丹尼爾，所以他也可以來，就像我一樣。

And maybe just to emphasize, as I've mentioned in previous calls, we've been preparing for years to be a more competitive carrier, to be able to compete with success under any -- any manageable condition, of course.

也許只是為了強調，正如我在之前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們多年來一直在準備成為更具競爭力的航空公司，以便能夠在任何可控的條件下成功競爭。

And that's why we've been able to lower our unit cost.

這就是我們能夠降低單位成本的原因。

We've had total focus in lowering our unit cost, in strengthening our network, and having a product that is today a great advantage for coal power lines in this whole region.

我們全心全意致力於降低單位成本，加強網絡，並推出對整個地區的燃煤電力線路具有巨大優勢的產品。

And that's why we've been able to deliver strong results. is something that we're confident we can continue doing in 2025 and beyond.

這就是我們能夠取得出色成果的原因。我們有信心在 2025 年及以後繼續這樣做。

So thank you all and we're here and see you in the next call.

謝謝大家，我們在這裡，下次通話中再見。

And ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your participation.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的參與。

That concludes the presentation.

本次演講到此結束。

You may now disconnect and have a wonderful day.

現在您可以斷開連接並享受美好的一天。