Copa Holdings SA (CPA) 2022 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Copa Holdings Third Quarter Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this call is being recorded -- this call is being webcast and recorded on November 16, 2022.

女士們，先生們，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎來到 Copa Holdings 第三季度財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）提醒一下，此通話正在錄製中——此通話將於 2022 年 11 月 16 日進行網絡廣播和錄製。

Now I will turn the conference call over to Daniel Tapia, Director of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin.

現在我將電話會議轉交給投資者關係總監丹尼爾塔皮亞。先生，您可以開始了。

Thank you, Victor, and welcome, everyone, to our third quarter earnings call. Joining us today are Pedro Heilbron, CEO of Copa Holdings; and Jose Montero, our CFO.

謝謝 Victor，歡迎大家參加我們的第三季度財報電話會議。今天加入我們的有 Copa Holdings 首席執行官 Pedro Heilbron；和我們的首席財務官 Jose Montero。

First, Pedro will start by going over our third quarter highlights, followed by Jose, who will discuss our financial results. Immediately after, we will open the call for questions from analysts.

首先，Pedro 將首先介紹我們第三季度的亮點，然後 Jose 將討論我們的財務業績。緊接著，我們將打開分析師提問的電話。

Copa Holdings financial reports have been prepared in accordance with International Financial Reporting Standards. In today's call, we will discuss non-IFRS financial measures. A reconciliation of the non-IFRS to IFRS financial measures can be found in our earnings release, which has been posted on the company's website, copaair.com.

Copa Holdings 財務報告是根據國際財務報告準則編制的。在今天的電話會議中，我們將討論非 IFRS 財務指標。非 IFRS 與 IFRS 財務措施的調節可以在我們的收益發布中找到，該發布已發佈在公司網站 copaair.com 上。

Our discussion today will also contain forward-looking statements, not limited to historical facts that reflect the company's current beliefs, expectations and/or intentions regarding future events and results.

我們今天的討論還將包含前瞻性陳述，不限於反映公司當前對未來事件和結果的信念、期望和/或意圖的歷史事實。

These forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially and are based on assumptions subject to change. Many of these are discussed in our annual report filed with the SEC.

這些前瞻性陳述涉及可能導致實際結果出現重大差異的風險和不確定性，並且基於可能發生變化的假設。我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度報告中討論了其中的許多內容。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Mr. Pedro Heilbron.

現在我想把電話轉給我們的首席執行官 Pedro Heilbron 先生。

Thank you, Daniel. Good morning to all, and thanks for participating in our third quarter earnings call. Before we begin, I'd like to thank all our coworkers for their commitment to the company and recognize their continuous efforts and dedication to keep Copa at the forefront of Latin American aviation. To them, as always, my utmost respect and admiration.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。大家早上好，感謝您參加我們的第三季度財報電話會議。在我們開始之前，我要感謝我們所有的同事對公司的承諾，並認可他們為使 Copa 保持在拉丁美洲航空業的前沿而做出的不懈努力和奉獻。對他們，我一如既往地表示最崇高的敬意和欽佩。

Despite the pressure that higher jet fuel prices continue to add to operating costs, in the third quarter, we were able to cover this increase thanks to strong demand and unit revenue performance and lower ex-fuel unit costs.

儘管噴氣燃料價格上漲繼續增加運營成本的壓力，但在第三季度，由於強勁的需求和單位收入表現以及較低的燃料單位成本，我們能夠彌補這一增長。

During Q3, our effective fuel price per gallon increased by 77% compared to the same period in 2019, which drove a unit cost increase of 16%. However, both our load factors and yields also increased, improving unit revenues by 15% compared to Q3 2019, driven by currently stronger air travel demand environment in the region. The combination of these factors, plus our ability to control our nonfuel-related costs enabled us to deliver a 17.8% operating margin, which compares to an operating margin of 18.8% in Q3 2019.

在第三季度，與 2019 年同期相比，我們每加侖的有效燃油價格上漲了 77%，導致單位成本上漲了 16%。然而，在該地區目前更強勁的航空旅行需求環境的推動下，我們的載客率和收益也有所增加，與 2019 年第三季度相比，單位收入增加了 15%。這些因素的結合，加上我們控制非燃料相關成本的能力，使我們能夠實現 17.8% 的營業利潤率，而 2019 年第三季度的營業利潤率為 18.8%。

Now I would like to mention the main highlights for the quarter. Our capacity measured in ASMs reached 99% of third quarter 2019, bringing us [essentially] back to our pre-pandemic levels. RPMs increased slightly by 1% compared to Q3 '19, which led to an 86.8% load factor, a 1.2 percentage point improvement.

現在我想提一下本季度的主要亮點。我們以 ASM 衡量的產能達到 2019 年第三季度的 99%，使我們 [基本上] 回到了大流行前的水平。與 19 年第三季度相比，RPM 略微增加了 1%，導致負載率為 86.8%，提高了 1.2 個百分點。

Passenger yields came in at $0.141 or 12% higher than in the third quarter of 2019, while cargo revenue was 80% higher, resulting in unit revenues or RASM of $0.128, a 15% increase compared to the third quarter of 2019. Ex-fuel CASM decreased 5% compared to Q3 '19 from $0.062 to $0.059. On the operational front, Copa Airlines delivered an on-time performance of 86.6% and a completion factor of 99.5%.

客運收益率為 0.141 美元，比 2019 年第三季度高出 12%，而貨運收入高出 80%，導致單位收入或 RASM 為 0.128 美元，比 2019 年第三季度增長 15%。除燃料外CASM 與 19 年第三季度相比下降了 5%，從 0.062 美元降至 0.059 美元。在運營方面，巴拿馬航空公司的準點率為 86.6%，完成率為 99.5%。

Finally, in October, Copa Airlines was recognized by Skytrax for the seventh consecutive year as the Best Airline and Best Airline Staff in Central America and the Caribbean. I would like to remind you that earlier in the year, Copa was also recognized by Cirium as the most on-time airline in Latin America during 2021 for the eighth consecutive year.

最後，在 10 月，Copa 航空公司連續第七年被 Skytrax 評為中美洲和加勒比地區最佳航空公司和最佳航空公司員工。我想提醒您，今年早些時候，Copa 還連續第八年被 Cirium 評為 2021 年拉丁美洲準點率最高的航空公司。

I'd like to take this opportunity to recognize and thank our more than 7,000 employees for everything they do day in and day out to offer a world's best travel experience to our passengers. These awards prove that their continued efforts and commitments are especially valuable to our passengers and do not go unnoticed.

我想藉此機會表彰並感謝我們的 7,000 多名員工日復一日地為我們的乘客提供世界上最好的旅行體驗所做的一切。這些獎項證明他們的不懈努力和承諾對我們的乘客來說特別有價值，不會被忽視。

Turning now to our fleet. During the quarter, we took delivery of 1 Boeing 737 MAX 9 to end the quarter with a total of 95 aircraft compared to the 102 aircraft in our fleet pre-pandemic.

現在轉向我們的艦隊。在本季度，我們交付了 1 架波音 737 MAX 9 到本季度末，共有 95 架飛機，而我們的機隊在大流行前有 102 架飛機。

In terms of our network, in September, Copa Airlines started service to the Felipe Angeles International Airport, which complements our existing service to Mexico City. With the addition of this route, we continue strengthening and solidifying our position as the most complete and convenient hub in Latin America, ending the quarter with service to 77 cities in 32 countries.

在我們的網絡方面，巴拿馬航空公司於 9 月開始為費利佩安吉利斯國際機場提供服務，這與我們現有的墨西哥城服務相輔相成。隨著這條航線的加入，我們繼續加強和鞏固了我們作為拉丁美洲最完善、最便捷的樞紐的地位，本季度結束時我們為 32 個國家的 77 個城市提供服務。

Turning now to Wingo. Wingo continues its regional expansion. And by year-end, it expects to create 31 routes with service to 20 cities in 10 countries. Furthermore, in the fourth quarter, Wingo will receive 1 additional 737-800 from Copa's fleet to end 2022 with a total of 9 aircraft.

現在轉向溫戈。 Wingo 繼續其區域擴張。到年底，它預計將開通 31 條航線，服務於 10 個國家的 20 個城市。此外，在第四季度，到 2022 年底，Wingo 將從 Copa 機隊接收 1 架額外的 737-800 飛機，總數為 9 架。

To summarize, despite the current fuel price environment affecting the airline industry, we have reestablished our capacity and network back to pre-pandemic levels and are consistently delivering improved financial results. Looking ahead, we observed a strong demand environment in the region and a healthy booking trend, which lead us to anticipate an increasing our unit revenues for Q4 and higher operating margins quarter-over-quarter.

總而言之，儘管當前的燃油價格環境影響了航空業，但我們已將我們的運力和網絡恢復到大流行前的水平，並始終如一地提供更好的財務業績。展望未來，我們觀察到該地區強勁的需求環境和健康的預訂趨勢，這使我們預計第四季度的單位收入將增加，營業利潤率將比上一季度更高。

Nonetheless, considering the uncertainty of the current economic environment, we continue to closely monitor demand patterns in the region. So we will remain focused and flexible in terms of cost and capacity, adjusting our plans as needed.

儘管如此，考慮到當前經濟環境的不確定性，我們將繼續密切關注該地區的需求模式。因此，我們將在成本和產能方面保持專注和靈活，並根據需要調整我們的計劃。

I'd like to conclude by reiterating that we have a proven and strong business model, which is based on operating the best and most convenient network for intra-Latin America travel from our Hub of the Americas, leveraging Panama's advantageous geographic position with low unit cost, best on-time performance and a strong balance sheet. And we expect that our Hub of the Americas will continue to be a valuable source of strategic advantage.

最後，我想重申，我們擁有成熟且強大的商業模式，該模式的基礎是從我們的美洲樞紐運營最好、最方便的拉丁美洲內部旅行網絡，利用巴拿馬的低單位地理位置優勢成本、最佳準時性能和強大的資產負債表。我們希望我們的美洲中心將繼續成為戰略優勢的寶貴來源。

Now I'll turn it over to Jose, who will go over our financial results in more detail.

現在我將把它交給何塞，他將更詳細地檢查我們的財務結果。

Thank you, Pedro. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for being with us today. I'd like to join Pedro in acknowledging our great team for all their efforts to deliver world-class service to our passengers.

謝謝你，佩德羅。大家，早安。感謝您今天與我們在一起。我想和 Pedro 一起感謝我們偉大的團隊為我們的乘客提供世界一流服務所做的一切努力。

I will start by going over our third quarter results. Net profit for the quarter came in at $115.9 million or $2.93 per share. Excluding special items, profit came in at $115.1 million or $2.91 per share.

我將從回顧我們第三季度的業績開始。本季度淨利潤為 1.159 億美元或每股 2.93 美元。不包括特殊項目，利潤為 1.151 億美元或每股 2.91 美元。

Third quarter special items totaled approximately $900,000, comprised of an unrealized mark-to-market gain of $1.6 million to the company's convertible notes and a $700,000 unrealized mark-to-market loss related to changes in the value of financial investments.

第三季度特殊項目總額約為 900,000 美元，包括公司可轉換票據未實現的 160 萬美元市值收益和與金融投資價值變化相關的 700,000 美元未實現市值損失。

We reported a quarterly operating profit of $143.7 million and an operating margin of 17.8%. Capacity came in at 6.3 billion available seat miles, which represents almost 100% of our Q3 2019 capacity.

我們公佈的季度營業利潤為 1.437 億美元，營業利潤率為 17.8%。運力達到 63 億可用座位英里，幾乎占我們 2019 年第三季度運力的 100%。

Load factor came in at an average of 86.8% for the quarter, a 1.2 percentage point increase compared to the same period in 2019, while passenger yields increased 12.1%. As a result, Unit revenues came in at [$0.128] or 15% higher than in the third quarter of 2019. Driven by higher jet fuel prices, unit costs or CASM increased 16.4% compared to Q3 2019 to $0.105. And finally, our CASM, excluding fuel, came in at $0.059, a 5.3% decrease compared to Q3 2019.

本季度載客率平均為 86.8%，比 2019 年同期增長 1.2 個百分點，而客運收益率增長 12.1%。因此，單位收入為 [0.128 美元]，比 2019 年第三季度高出 15%。在噴氣燃料價格上漲的推動下，單位成本或 CASM 與 2019 年第三季度相比增長 16.4% 至 0.105 美元。最後，我們的 CASM（不包括燃料）為 0.059 美元，與 2019 年第三季度相比下降了 5.3%。

Although we faced certain inflationary pressures as well as higher sales and distribution unit costs related to higher sales levels, our continued initiatives to reduce our costs have reduced a sustained level of lower ex-fuel CASM.

儘管我們面臨一定的通貨膨脹壓力以及與更高的銷售水平相關的更高的銷售和分銷單位成本，但我們為降低成本而採取的持續舉措降低了前燃料 CASM 的持續水平。

I'm going to spend some time now discussing our balance sheet and liquidity. As of the end of the third quarter, we had assets of close to $4.6 billion. And in terms of cash, short and long-term investments, we ended the quarter with $1.1 billion, which represents 42% of last 12 months revenues. As to our debt, we ended the quarter with $1.7 billion in debt and lease liabilities, and our adjusted net debt-to-EBITDA ratio came in at 0.8x.

我現在要花一些時間討論我們的資產負債表和流動性。截至第三季度末，我們的資產接近 46 億美元。在現金、短期和長期投資方面，我們在本季度結束時獲得了 11 億美元，佔過去 12 個月收入的 42%。至於我們的債務，本季度末我們的債務和租賃負債為 17 億美元，調整後的淨債務與 EBITDA 之比為 0.8 倍。

Turning now to our fleet. During the third quarter, we received 1 Boeing 737 MAX 9 to end the quarter with a total of 95 aircraft.

現在轉向我們的艦隊。在第三季度，我們收到了 1 架波音 737 MAX 9，本季度末共有 95 架飛機。

In October, our total fleet increased to 96 aircraft since we received an additional 737 MAX 9. With this addition, our total fleet is now comprised of 68 737-800s and 19 737 MAX 9s and 9 737-700s. These figures include 1 737-800 freighter.

10 月，自從我們收到額外的 737 MAX 9 以來，我們的機隊總數增加到 96 架飛機。有了這架飛機，我們的機隊總數現在由 68 737-800 和 19 737 MAX 9 和 9 737-700 組成。這些數字包括 1 737-800 貨機。

Of our total fleet, 2/3 of our aircraft are owned and 1/3 is under operating leases. For the remainder of the year, we expect to receive 1 additional 737 MAX 9, and so we expect to end the year with a fleet of 97 aircraft compared to 102 aircraft in our fleet at year-end 2019.

在我們的機隊總數中，2/3 的飛機為自有飛機，1/3 為經營租賃飛機。在今年剩餘時間裡，我們預計將再接收 1 架 737 MAX 9，因此我們預計到今年年底機隊將擁有 97 架飛機，而 2019 年底我們的機隊中有 102 架飛機。

In 2023, we expect to receive 13 additional aircraft, 12 Boeing 737 MAX 9s and 1 Boeing 737 MAX 8. We've already secured financing for 7 of these aircraft. 1 aircraft through a sale leaseback transaction and 6, through Japanese operating leases with co-options.

2023 年，我們預計將再接收 13 架飛機，12 架波音 737 MAX 9 和 1 架波音 737 MAX 8。我們已經為其中 7 架飛機獲得融資。 1 架飛機通過售後回租交易，6 架飛機通過帶共同選擇權的日本經營租賃。

As to our outlook based on the current strong demand environment, we can provide the following guidance for the fourth quarter of 2022. We expect to operate approximately 6.5 billion ASMs, which implies a capacity increase of 6% compared to Q4 2019, and we expect an operating margin of approximately 22%.

至於我們基於當前強勁需求環境的展望，我們可以為 2022 年第四季度提供以下指導。我們預計將運營約 65 億台 ASM，這意味著與 2019 年第四季度相比產能增加 6%，我們預計營業利潤率約為 22%。

We're basing our Q4 2022 outlook on the following assumptions: load factor of approximately 88%, unit revenues of approximately $0.137, CASM ex-fuel of approximately $0.06 and an all-in fuel price of $3.75 per gallon.

我們的 2022 年第四季度展望基於以下假設：載客率約為 88%，單位收入約為 0.137 美元，CASM 前燃料約為 0.06 美元，總燃料價格為每加侖 3.75 美元。

Regarding next year, preliminary based on our current fleet plan, we expect our capacity measured in ASMs to increase approximately 15% versus that of 2022. Thank you.

關於明年，根據我們目前的機隊計劃，我們預計我們以 ASM 衡量的產能將比 2022 年增加約 15%。謝謝。

And with that, we'll open the call for some questions.

有了這個，我們將打開一些問題的電話。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question will come from the line of Duane Pfennigwerth from Evercore ISI.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題將來自 Evercore ISI 的 Duane Pfennigwerth。

I wanted to ask you about competitive capacity. This analysis gets a little noisy with everything comp [year over 3 year] and versus 2019. But if we actually look year-over-year, it looks like Central America to the U.S. is one of a few regions in the world where capacity is actually down year-over-year. So I wonder if you could just comment broadly on what you're seeing from a competitive capacity perspective in your markets in the fourth quarter versus the third quarter.

我想問你關於競爭力的問題。與 2019 年比較 [3 年以上] 和 2019 年相比，這個分析有點嘈雜。但如果我們實際看年復一年，看起來中美洲對美國來說是世界上少數幾個產能不足的地區之一實際上同比下降。所以我想知道您是否可以從第四季度與第三季度市場競爭能力的角度廣泛評論您所看到的情況。

Duane, Pedro here. So Central America to the U.S. could be down, but it was higher right after the pandemic. So it's coming back to a more normal level in a way we could say that. The main airlines in our region, the main international airlines will be back to nearly the pre-pandemic capacity by the end of this year, so by the end of Q4 '22. And then the new entrants and the OCCs are above pre-pandemic.

杜安，這裡是佩德羅。因此，從中美洲到美國的航線可能會下降，但在大流行之後會有所上升。所以它以我們可以這麼說的方式回到了更正常的水平。我們地區的主要航空公司，主要國際航空公司將在今年年底恢復到大流行前的運力，所以到 22 年第四季度末。然後新進入者和 OCC 都高於大流行前。

Okay. And then on dividend policy, I apologize if you mentioned this, but how are you and the board thinking about restoration of the dividend and kind of the historical payout? And how do you think about buybacks versus dividends here? Obviously, you've done a substantial amount of buyback already and an incredible amount of buyback for an airline.

好的。然後關於股息政策，如果你提到這個我很抱歉，但是你和董事會是如何考慮恢復股息和歷史支出的？您如何看待這裡的回購與股息？顯然，你已經完成了大量的回購，並且為一家航空公司進行了數量驚人的回購。

Right. So the dividend policy, it's still there. It was suspended when the pandemic started. And to be reactivated, it's a decision the board must take. And I am assuming that, that's going to be discussed in the next board meeting after Q4 closes.

正確的。所以股息政策仍然存在。大流行開始時它被暫停了。要重新激活，這是董事會必須做出的決定。我假設，這將在第四季度結束後的下一次董事會會議上進行討論。

Yes, Duane. And in terms of the buyback, as you mentioned, yes, we've been active. We have an active program of $200 million that is not yet completed. And the rationale for the program is a, as we've always had to maximize shareholder value, but also as a tool to have some management of the liability related to the convert. So that's kind of the rationale of the buyback program that we've been executing.

是的，杜安。正如你提到的，就回購而言，是的，我們一直很活躍。我們有一個尚未完成的 2 億美元的活躍計劃。該計劃的基本原理是，因為我們一直必須最大化股東價值，而且還可以作為一種工具來管理與轉換相關的責任。這就是我們一直在執行的回購計劃的基本原理。

Our next question comes from the line of Alejandro Zamacona from Crédit Suisse.

我們的下一個問題來自 Crédit Suisse 的 Alejandro Zamacona。

My first question is on the expectations for 2023. So besides the capacity growth of 15% that you disclosed, do you have any early expectations in terms of yield, fuel cost, profitability. Especially for yields, assuming that oil prices have started to normalize and for costs amid all the high inflationary environment.

我的第一個問題是關於 2023 年的預期。那麼除了您披露的 15% 的產能增長之外，您在產量、燃料成本、盈利能力方面是否有任何早期預期。特別是對於收益率，假設油價已經開始正常化，並且在所有高通脹環境下成本。

Yes. Alejandro, we issued our preliminary guidance just in terms of capacity at this time. I think that we'll probably have more visibility into 2023. And so we'll hold on until then for a more -- a clearer, more comprehensive guidance for the full year.

是的。亞歷杭德羅，我們此時僅就容量發布了初步指導。我認為我們可能會對 2023 年有更多的了解。因此我們將堅持到那時，為全年提供更清晰、更全面的指導。

And we'll have more visibility on the specific factors you have mentioned for sure.

我們將對您肯定提到的具體因素有更多的了解。

Okay. And then my second question, if I may, regarding the labor union negotiations. Could you share any thoughts on the current negotiations and expected outcome?

好的。然後我的第二個問題，如果可以的話，關於工會談判。您能否分享對當前談判和預期結果的任何想法？

Yes. We have 4 main unions. Earlier in the year, we closed negotiations with the airport workers and the mechanics. And we're currently in negotiations with the pilots and in the final stage with the cabin crews. So I would not like to speculate on results.

是的。我們有 4 個主要工會。今年早些時候，我們結束了與機場工作人員和機械師的談判。我們目前正在與飛行員進行談判，並在最後階段與機組人員進行談判。所以我不想推測結果。

Next question will come from the line of Michael Linenberg from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題將來自德意志銀行的 Michael Linenberg。

Good results, by the way. Great outlook, too. Couple here. Jose, just back on the share repurchase, it looks like this last quarter, maybe it was a little over $20 million. The previous quarter, maybe it was $120 million, $125 million. If I think about what, $200 million in total, what do we have about $50 million left, $60 million? Can you just give us what's left in the program?

順便說一下，結果不錯。前景也很好。情侶在這裡何塞，剛剛回到股票回購，看起來是上個季度，可能略高於 2000 萬美元。上一季度，可能是 1.2 億美元、1.25 億美元。如果我考慮一下，總共 2 億美元，我們還剩下大約 5000 萬美元，6000 萬美元？你能告訴我們程序中剩下的內容嗎？

No, it's a little bit more because there is a portion of what we purchased in the second quarter that was associated with the prior program that we had. So there's a little bit north, I think, about $100 million left in the current program, yes.

不，它多一點，因為我們在第二季度購買的部分產品與我們之前的計劃相關。所以我認為有點偏北，當前計劃還剩下大約 1 億美元，是的。

Great. Thanks for pointing that out. And then just my second question to either you and/or Pedro. This 88% load factor in the fourth quarter, not only is it very high, but -- and of course, you're bringing back capacity now, but it's up versus the third quarter, so we have sequential improvement.

偉大的。感謝您指出了這一點。然後是我要問你和/或 Pedro 的第二個問題。第四季度 88% 的負載率，不僅非常高，而且——當然，你現在正在恢復產能，但與第三季度相比有所上升，所以我們有連續的改進。

And if I think pre-COVID normally, seasonally, you would see loads maybe dip down 0.5 point, 1 point, 2 points. We could go back and do a 10-year average, and you probably see a few points less.

如果我認為 COVID 之前通常是季節性的，你會看到負載可能下降 0.5 點、1 點、2 點。我們可以回過頭來做 10 年的平均值，你可能會少看到幾個點。

And I'm just trying to get behind why the load is higher. It's sort of a counter seasonal move on one hand, on the other hand, your network will now be fully back to normalcy and maybe you're getting the full benefit of connecting across all your various banks, and that's helping drive that additional load factor, despite the fact that capacity is up. Can you just kind of give us -- walk us through maybe what's driving that because that does seem very unique and interesting.

我只是想弄清楚為什麼負載更高。一方面，這是一種反季節性的舉措，另一方面，您的網絡現在將完全恢復正常，也許您將獲得連接所有不同銀行的全部好處，這有助於推動額外的負載係數，儘管容量已增加。您能否給我們介紹一下，也許是什麼在驅動它，因為它看起來確實非常獨特和有趣。

Yes, it's -- Michael, things have changed, of course, since the pandemic. And the patterns are slightly different. Demand is strong right now. It doesn't mean that it's going to be strong forever. Yields are strong, driven by higher fuel price, but we don't know for how long either. And then competition, as I mentioned before, has been gradually adding back capacity. Some will come back sometime in this quarter. Others are already above pre-pandemic. So there are so many moving parts that are so different to pre-pandemic that we're really having a hard time predicting exactly how demand is going to behave quarter-over-quarter. So this is like the best of what we can see right now. And that's kind of like -- that's like the most we can say because again, it's all changed.

是的，邁克爾，自從大流行以來，情況當然發生了變化。而且圖案略有不同。目前需求強勁。這並不意味著它會永遠強大。在燃料價格上漲的推動下，收益率很高，但我們也不知道會持續多久。然後，正如我之前提到的，競爭一直在逐漸增加容量。有些人會在本季度的某個時候回來。其他人已經超過大流行前。因此，有太多與大流行前不同的活動部分，我們真的很難準確預測季度需求的表現。所以這就像我們現在能看到的最好的。這有點像——這就像我們能說的最多一樣，因為再一次，一切都變了。

So it sounds like it's just a period where all the planets are in alignment and you're just getting good numbers.

所以聽起來這只是一個所有行星都對齊的時期，你只是得到了很好的數字。

Yes.

是的。

It could be, exactly.

完全可以。

I think that's a good assessment.

我認為這是一個很好的評估。

Our next question will come from the line of Savi Syth from Raymond James.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Raymond James 的 Savi Syth 系列。

Just on the 2023 capacity, could you talk a little bit about the mix in terms of stage and upgauging and new departures in that 15% as well as I wonder if you can talk about how you're thinking about new markets versus kind of building back frequencies.

就 2023 年的容量而言，您能否談談這 15% 中階段、升級和新出發的組合，以及我想知道您是否可以談談您如何看待新市場與建築類型反向頻率。

Yes. I would say, Savi, that about a little bit more than half of that capacity is just full year effect of some of the capacity that we built in during 2022. And then the remainder is probably going to be between gauge and frequency into markets that we already serve. So I think the focus more anything is going to be on initially sort of full year effect and then frequency into markets that where we serve with kind of the additional gauge. That's kind of at this stage kind of what we have.

是的。 Savi，我想說的是，大約一半以上的容量只是我們在 2022 年建立的一些容量的全年影響。然後其餘部分可能會在儀表和頻率之間進入市場我們已經服務了。因此，我認為更多的重點將放在最初的全年影響上，然後頻率進入我們以某種額外指標服務的市場。在這個階段，這就是我們所擁有的。

So kind of lower risk growth there then.

那麼那裡的風險增長就較低了。

I would say so. Yes. I mean -- I think I mean the hub still -- we have right now 77 markets or 77 cities. We had 80 prior to the pandemic. And so I think that there's still certainly, opportunities in terms of cities and new markets that we would serve. And I think there is going to be some of that, but the majority of the growth is going to come from the latter or the other 2 areas that I mentioned.

我會這麼說。是的。我的意思是——我想我的意思是中心仍然——我們現在有 77 個市場或 77 個城市。在大流行之前我們有 80 個。因此，我認為在我們服務的城市和新市場方面，肯定還有機會。而且我認為會有一些，但大部分增長將來自後者或我提到的其他兩個領域。

That's helpful. And then if I might, on the kind of revenue strength that you're seeing, is there any kind of color that you can provide on business corporate has -- it seems like most of the commentary we are hearing across the kind of various geographies is it's really coming from leisure and VFR. Are you seeing kind of a more return to corporate? Or -- and I know some of the premium capacity in your markets have maybe come off? And wondering if that's helping you gain any corporate share.

這很有幫助。然後，如果我可以的話，根據您所看到的那種收入實力，您是否可以為企業提供任何顏色 - 似乎我們在不同地區聽到的大多數評論它真的來自休閒和 VFR 嗎？您是否看到了對企業的更多回報？或者——我知道你們市場中的一些優質產能可能已經消失了？想知道這是否有助於您獲得任何公司份額。

Yes. Pedro here, Savi. So it's still mostly leisure, where the strength is coming from. But business is up. Our corporate accounts, for example, our 75 -- at 75% of pre-pandemic. And overall, business is now around 25% of total revenues before -- in the previous quarters, it was about 20%. So we are seeing a little bit of an uptick in the business travel.

是的。佩德羅在這兒，薩維。所以還是以休閒居多，力氣從何而來。但是生意興隆。我們的公司帳戶，例如，我們的 75 - 佔大流行前的 75%。總體而言，業務現在約佔總收入的 25%，而在前幾個季度，這一比例約為 20%。因此，我們看到商務旅行略有上升。

Are you seeing an improvement? I mean is kind of our valuation, right? Is the premium seats in your -- the competitive premium seats in your market lower now? Or is that not -- never noticeable?

你看到改善了嗎？我的意思是我們的估值，對吧？你的高級座位 - 你的市場上有競爭力的高級座位現在更低了嗎？還是那不是——從來沒有引起注意？

I don't think there's that much of a switch. Are you talking about competitors, right?

我不認為有那麼多的轉換。你在談論競爭對手，對吧？

Exactly.

確切地。

Yes.

是的。

Yes, we don't -- I don't think there's a clear picture there.

是的，我們沒有——我認為那裡沒有清晰的畫面。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question will come from the line of Stephen Trent from Citi.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題將來自花旗銀行的 Stephen Trent。

I was wondering if I could just dig in a little bit on the capacity growth for 2023. I mean it seems in terms of your seat mile cost cadence, you're outperforming most of the U.S. airlines per se.

我想知道我是否可以深入了解 2023 年的運力增長。我的意思是，就您的座位英里成本節奏而言，您的表現似乎優於大多數美國航空公司。

And when we think about moving into 2023, how should we think about sort of the split between fixed and variable costs, for example, as we think about, for instance, the upgauging that you've done from Embraers to Boeings and some seat densification. Just sort of wanted to dig in and your success in what seems to be limiting seat mile cost versus some of your North American competitors?

當我們考慮進入 2023 年時，我們應該如何考慮固定成本和可變成本之間的分配，例如，正如我們考慮的那樣，例如，從巴西航空工業公司到波音公司所做的升級以及一些座位緻密化.只是有點想深入了解您在似乎限制座位英里成本方面與您的一些北美競爭對手相比取得的成功？

Yes, Steve, I'll start with relating a little bit of how we got here. We have reduced our CASM ex-fuel between 2019 to 2022 by around 5%. And that's come, as you mentioned, with the fleet moves that we made with the fleet simplification and we streamline overhead across the board and perform other tweaks, including some tweaks in our onboard offerings, et cetera.

是的，史蒂夫，我將首先介紹一下我們是如何走到這一步的。我們已將 2019 年至 2022 年間的 CASM 前燃料減少了約 5%。正如您提到的那樣，隨著我們通過簡化機隊進行的機隊移動，我們全面簡化了管理費用並進行了其他調整，包括對我們的機載產品進行了一些調整，等等。

Going forward, we will continue doing more of that. I think that we still are trying to put everything together in terms of our 2023 CASM guide. And I think in February we'll be more ready to give a full year unit cost guide for the year.

展望未來，我們將繼續做更多這樣的事情。我認為我們仍在努力根據我們的 2023 CASM 指南將所有內容整合在一起。我認為在 2 月份，我們將更願意提供全年的單位成本指南。

But as you well mentioned, all the items that you mentioned, the continued growth of 737 fleet densification, et cetera, will come into play as well in moving forward and keeping our costs in a very competitive position.

但正如你提到的那樣，你提到的所有項目，737 機隊密度的持續增長等等，都將在向前發展和保持我們的成本處於非常有競爭力的位置方面發揮作用。

Okay. Super. I really appreciate that, Jose. And just one other quick question. If my memory serves me correctly, which it might not. I recalled in the past, maybe a couple of years ago, when I think about your fleet mix of lease versus owned that it was kind of somewhat more 80/20 as opposed to the, I believe, the 2/3, 1/3 you mentioned.

好的。極好的。我真的很感激，何塞。還有一個簡單的問題。如果我的記憶正確地為我服務，它可能不會。我記得過去，也許是幾年前，當我想到你的機隊租賃與擁有的組合時，它有點多於 80/20，而不是我認為的 2/3、1/3你提到。

And is that shift -- is my understanding accurate? And when you think about lease versus own, is it a matter of where you see the most attractive financing opportunities or with Wingo's growth, maybe you're reluctant to take some of the asset risk on the NGs, just love to hear your thoughts on that.

這種轉變——我的理解準確嗎？當您考慮租賃與擁有時，您是否看到了最具吸引力的融資機會或 Wingo 的增長，也許您不願意在 NG 上承擔一些資產風險，只是想听聽您的想法那。

Yes. Absolutely. No, it's actually not shifted too much. It's been kind of in that 2/3-1/3 for a while. And we usually -- and it depends on the moment it has been because of at points in time in the past because of aircraft availability at a particular moment.

是的。絕對地。不，它實際上並沒有移動太多。 2/3-1/3 已經有一段時間了。我們通常 - 這取決於過去的時間點，因為特定時刻的飛機可用性。

But ultimately, we make our decisions for financing based on what the better options are there from a purely economic perspective. So that's kind of the driving factor. Having aircraft on the operating leases also gives us some flexibility in terms of the fleet plan, which is a key portion of it. They all have [staggered] expiration dates, and that allows us to plan ahead in terms of capacity. So that's kind of the rationale that we followed over the last several years.

但最終，我們從純粹的經濟角度根據更好的選擇來做出融資決定。所以這是一種驅動因素。在經營租賃中擁有飛機也使我們在機隊計劃方面具有一定的靈活性，這是其中的關鍵部分。它們都有 [交錯] 到期日期，這使我們能夠在容量方面提前計劃。這就是我們在過去幾年中遵循的基本原理。

And our last question comes from the line of Helane Becker from Cowen.

我們的最後一個問題來自 Cowen 的 Helane Becker。

Yes. Sorry, I missed that somehow. Just 2 questions. Can you talk about the improvement in fuel efficiency with replacing the older aircraft with the MAX?

是的。對不起，我不知何故錯過了。只有2個問題。您能談談用 MAX 替換舊飛機後燃油效率的提高嗎？

And then the other part of the question is, could you maybe talk about the loyalty program, the uptake, the increase, what you've experienced in the past maybe 1 year, 1.5 years on the acceptance of that program.

然後問題的另一部分是，你能否談談忠誠度計劃、接受度、增加量，以及你在過去 1 年、1.5 年接受該計劃時所經歷的事情。

Helane, yes, in terms of fuel, there's a couple of items, I think, of note. Yes, the MAX is in terms of fuel, pure fuel efficiency is delivering as has been advertised vis-a-vis the NG.

Helane，是的，就燃料而言，我認為有幾項值得注意。是的，MAX 是在燃料方面，純粹的燃料效率正在提供，正如 NG 所宣傳的那樣。

And so I remember, in our case, we also replaced ultimately, some of the E-190s with MAX. So the benefit in terms of fuel consumption was also very good. So it's in the low double-digit range in terms of fuel efficiency on a like basis. So it's, again, performing as advertised. The -- on a fuel basis. The other item that is important is that we, as a company, pursued quite a bit our fuel conservation efforts over the last several years.

所以我記得，在我們的案例中，我們最終也用 MAX 替換了一些 E-190。所以在油耗方面的收益也是非常不錯的。因此，在類似的基礎上，它在燃油效率方面處於較低的兩位數範圍內。因此，它再次像宣傳的那樣表現。 - 以燃料為基礎。另一個重要的項目是，作為一家公司，我們在過去幾年中進行了大量的節油工作。

And so besides just purely the operational fuel efficiency of the aircraft, we also have embarked in a multitude of initiatives from the operational side, from the maintenance side and from -- even from the finance side to reduce our fuel consumption as well. Those are -- maybe there's a set of about 12 or 15 metrics that we follow on a specific manner on an ongoing basis with conservation that was also aided in our overall fuel efficiency over the last several years.

因此，除了純粹的飛機運營燃油效率外，我們還從運營方面、維護方面以及 - 甚至是財務方面採取了多項舉措，以減少我們的燃油消耗。這些是 - 也許有一組大約 12 或 15 個指標，我們在持續的基礎上以特定方式遵循這些指標，並在過去幾年中也有助於提高我們的整體燃油效率。

And in terms -- go ahead.

換句話說——繼續吧。

Sorry, items, I'll give you an example of something that is -- we've been like centers of gravity of aircraft, just mining the aircraft center of gravity on every specific slide is something that adds a lot of value in terms of fuel conservation. So it's items like that, that we measure and pursue in every single flight. So it's a good development there. Sorry, Pedro.

抱歉，物品，我會給你舉個例子——我們就像飛機的重心，只是在每個特定的幻燈片上挖掘飛機的重心，就可以增加很多價值節省燃料。因此，我們在每次飛行中都會衡量和追求這樣的項目。所以這是一個很好的發展。對不起，佩德羅。

No, no, it's okay. Helane, in terms of our loyalty program, we haven't shared much information in the past. But just took the note because maybe we can make a special presentation during our Investor Day next year. Maybe we can share more information.

不，不，沒關係。 Helane，就我們的忠誠度計劃而言，我們過去沒有分享太多信息。但只是記下了，因為也許我們可以在明年的投資者日期間做一個特別的介紹。也許我們可以分享更多信息。

But it's doing well. I mean, is not -- of course, it's not a huge program. It goes right to our [size and the size] of our home market, but it's a very successful program, is growing nicely. And again, maybe we can share more information during our Investor Day.

但它做得很好。我的意思是，不是——當然，這不是一個龐大的計劃。它正好適合我們國內市場的[規模和規模]，但它是一個非常成功的項目，發展得很好。再一次，也許我們可以在投資者日期間分享更多信息。

In terms of -- going back to Stephen's questions and your question in terms of fuel efficiency and upgauging or densification, I think it's interesting to notice that in Q3, our ASMs are only slightly below our 2019 level, but if you look at our block hours are about 7% below 2019. So we're delivering a much higher ASMs per flight, and that has a direct impact in our ex-fuel CASM and even in our fuel proceed performance.

就-回到斯蒂芬的問題和你關於燃油效率和升級或緻密化的問題，我認為有趣的是注意到在第三季度，我們的 ASM 僅略低於 2019 年的水平，但如果你看看我們的區塊小時數比 2019 年減少約 7%。因此，我們每次飛行提供的 ASM 更高，這對我們的前燃料 CASM 甚至我們的燃料進行性能都有直接影響。

Right. Actually, that's what prompted my question. The fact that you're within a percentage point and -- but your fuel consumption is lower by a lot. And it's not explained entirely by Savi's question about length of [hauling stage]. So that's what prompted that. And then just one last thing. Right before the pandemic started, you guys had started the Panama layover, and I'm just wondering if the uptake on that has started to increase again.

正確的。實際上，這就是促使我提出問題的原因。事實上，你在一個百分點之內，而且 - 但你的油耗要低很多。這並不能完全用 Savi 關於 [牽引階段] 長度的問題來解釋。這就是促使這一點的原因。然後是最後一件事。就在大流行開始之前，你們已經開始在巴拿馬停留，我只是想知道對此的接受度是否再次開始增加。

It has. This year would be -- this year is going to end pretty much in the same numbers we had in 2019 pre-pandemic in the range of 100,000 passengers, give and take a few thousand. So it's doing very well, and we're going to keep on pushing it next year in 2023.

它有。今年將是——今年將以與 2019 年大流行前相同的數字結束，大約有 100,000 名乘客，大約有幾千人。所以它做得很好，我們將在明年 2023 年繼續推動它。

Now I'd like to turn the conference back to Mr. Pedro Heilbron for closing remarks.

現在我想把會議轉回 Pedro Heilbron 先生的閉幕詞。

Okay. Thank you, operator, Victor. So thank you all. This concludes our earnings call for Q3 2022. Thank you for being with us. And thanks for your continued support. Have a great day, and we'll see you in the next one. Thank you.

好的。謝謝你，運營商，維克多。所以謝謝大家。我們 2022 年第三季度的財報電話會議到此結束。感謝您與我們在一起。並感謝您一直以來的支持。祝你有美好的一天，我們會在下一個見到你。謝謝你。

And this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect. Everyone, have a great day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。大家，祝你有美好的一天。