CMB.TECH NV (CMBT) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the CMB.TECH earnings call for the first quarter of 2025. My name is Alexander Saverys. I'm the CEO of CMB.TECH. And I'm joined here today by my colleagues, Ludovic, Joris and Enya. We want to focus on our first quarter numbers, the financials and the highlights.

大家下午好，歡迎參加CMB.TECH 2025年第一季財報電話會議。我的名字是 Alexander Saverys。我是CMB.TECH的執行長。今天和我一起出席的還有我的同事Ludovic、Joris和Enya。我們希望專注於第一季的數據、財務狀況和亮點。

We also want to say a few words about the CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean proposed merger. We will say a few words about the decisions that we're taking at the IMO meeting a couple of weeks ago, and then zoom in on our different marine divisions and give you an update on where the market is. To end, as usual, with the conclusion and time for questions and answers. I would like now to hand it over to our CFO, Ludovic.

我們還想就 CMB.TECH 和 Golden Ocean 擬議的合併說幾句話。我們將簡要介紹幾週前在國際海事組織會議上做出的決定，然後重點介紹我們不同的海洋部門，並向您介紹市場的最新情況。最後，像往常一樣，進行總結並留出問答時間。現在我想把它交給我們的財務長 Ludovic。

Thanks, Alex, and good afternoon, everybody. If we look at the Q1 figures of 2025, we end the quarter with a profit of roughly $40 million. Excluding capital gains, we would have resulted in a net income of minus $6 million. These figures is -- for the first time, we consolidate Golden Ocean from a balance sheet perspective end of March. But from a P&L perspective, we consolidated as from the March 12.

謝謝，亞歷克斯，大家下午好。如果我們看一下 2025 年第一季的數據，我們本季的利潤約為 4000 萬美元。除去資本收益，我們的淨收入為負 600 萬美元。這些數據是——我們第一次從 3 月底的資產負債表角度合併 Golden Ocean。但從損益表的角度來看，我們從 3 月 12 日起進行合併。

So the figures include 19 days of Golden Ocean P&L. Mind you, there is different depreciation models. So it is sometimes not very easy to look through the figures. We have a liquidity end of March within CMB.TECH of $245 million. Contract backlog has been highlighted in the previous business update, but so we are reaching close to $3 billion.

因此這些數字包括了 Golden Ocean 19 天的損益表。請注意，有不同的折舊模型。因此，有時查看這些數字並不太容易。截至 3 月底，CMB.TECH 的流動資金為 2.45 億美元。合約積壓問題已在先前的業務更新中強調過，但目前我們的合約積壓金額已接近 30 億美元。

We're very proud to say that we've added roughly $1 billion in the first quarter. The CapEx still remains at $2.2 billion, and our equity on total assets within CMB.TECH ended the quarter with 31.9%. Zooming in on the highlights.

我們非常自豪地說，我們在第一季增加了約 10 億美元。資本支出仍為 22 億美元，本季末 CMB.TECH 的總資產權益為 31.9%。放大亮點。

We've mentioned the profits. The most important transaction, obviously, was CMB.TECH buying the Hemen stake in Golden Ocean, followed by an increase on open market transactions which resulted in a term sheet signed for a merger transaction between CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean.

我們已經提到了利潤。顯然，最重要的交易是CMB.TECH收購Golden Ocean的Hemen股份，隨後公開市場交易增加，導致CMB.TECH和Golden Ocean簽署了合併交易的條款清單。

On the business side, we've added two important long-term contracts, one with Fortescue for a ammonia-powered Newcastlemaxes and then a big landmark agreement we signed with MOL, a Japanese company for three Newcastlemaxes, ammonia-powered and six chemical tankers that are ammonia ready and ammonia-powered.

在業務方面，我們增加了兩份重要的長期合同，一份是與 Fortescue 簽訂的以氨為動力的 Newcastlemaxes 合同，另一份是與日本公司 MOL 簽署的具有里程碑意義的協議，我們將訂購三艘以氨為動力的 Newcastlemaxes 和六艘可配備氨燃料並以氨為動力的化學品油輪。

We continued our strategy of diversification and decarbonization by taking delivery of five newbuilding vessels. We had four dry bulk vessels and on CTV. At the same time, we decided not to declare a dividend for Q1 2025.

我們持續推行多元化和脫碳策略，接收了五艘新建船舶。我們有四艘乾散貨船，並在 CTV 上。同時，我們決定不宣布2025年第一季的股利。

On the right side, you can see that in the divestment program, we've sold three VLCCs, where we're going to launch close to $100 million profit of capital gains in the two next quarters, and we have finalized the delivery of the Cap Lara and the Alsace and Windcat 6, which was the capital gain of $46 million in the first quarter and the contract backlog I have mentioned before.

在右側，您可以看到，在撤資計劃中，我們已出售了三艘 VLCC，我們將在接下來的兩個季度中獲得近 1 億美元的資本收益，並且我們已經完成了 Cap Lara 和 Alsace 和 Windcat 6 的交付，這是第一季 4600 萬美元的資本收益以及我之前提到的合約積壓。

The fleet on the water today stands at 113 vessels with another 46 newbuilds coming. You can see that by the end of the year, we'll be at 131 ships and then growing until the end of '26 to roughly 150 vessels. Zooming in on the P&L breakevens, the achieved earnings and rates in the first quarter and the anticipated earnings quarter-to-date on Q2. We can see the tankers, we have a good first quarter with an average of $40,000 per day. Second quarter to date were roughly $43,000 per day.

目前，水上航行的船隊共有 113 艘船隻，另有 46 艘新船即將投入使用。您可以看到，到今年年底，我們的船舶數量將達到 131 艘，到 26 年底將增長到大約 150 艘。放大損益平衡點、第一季實現的收益和利率以及第二季迄今的預期收益。我們可以看到油輪，第一季我們的表現不錯，平均每天 40,000 美元。第二季迄今每天約為 43,000 美元。

On the bulkers, we had a somewhat weaker first quarter, resulting in our Newcastlemaxes earning $18,000 per day. In Q2, we are up at $24,000. The container and chemical tankers are mostly long-term contracts, which are fixed at good rates, and we do see an uptick in the earnings on our CTVs in the offshoring market.

就散裝貨船而言，第一季我們的表現略顯疲軟，導致我們的紐卡斯爾型散裝貨船日均盈利 18,000 美元。在第二季度，我們上漲了 24,000 美元。貨櫃船和化學品船大多是長期合同，以優惠的費率固定，而且我們確實看到我們的 CTV 在離岸市場的收益有所上升。

This is an overview of the contract backlog that is well known to you with the notable additions of the chemical tankers on the four industry ready ships and the two industry fitted, but also very happy to show the 12-year contract we had on the Newcastlemax bulk vessels upon delivery. I'll hand over now to Alex to discuss further the proposed merger between CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean.

這是您所熟知的合約積壓情況的概述，其中顯著增加了四艘工業準備船和兩艘工業裝配船的化學品油輪，但也很高興展示我們在交付的 Newcastlemax 散貨船上簽訂的 12 年合約。現在我將把時間交給 Alex，進一步討論 CMB.TECH 和 Golden Ocean 之間的擬議合併。

Thank you, Ludovic. I will zoom in on what we have already discussed on our Capital Markets Day, which is indeed the proposed merger between CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean to create a leading diversified maritime group. On this slide, you can see in one slide what the transaction entails. If the merger is approved, our fleet would grow to 250 vessels, about 200 on the water plus 50 newbuildings. The contract backlog, as already mentioned, would be $3 billion.

謝謝你，盧多維克。我將重點介紹我們在資本市場日已經討論過的內容，即 CMB.TECH 和 Golden Ocean 之間擬議的合併，以創建一個領先的多元化海運集團。在這張投影片上，您可以一眼就看到交易的具體內容。如果合併獲得批准，我們的船隊規模將擴大到 250 艘船隻，其中水上船隻約 200 艘，新建船隻約 50 艘。如同前面提到的，合約積壓金額將達到 30 億美元。

Roughly one-third of the fleet will be powered by ammonia or hydrogen, and we would have an average age across our fleet of six years, so a very young fleet. Looking at some financial metrics of the proposed merger. The total fair market value of the fleet would be $11.1 billion. We estimate an NAV per share of close to $15 per share if the merger is consumed. Our CapEx commitments would not change too much because Golden Ocean does not really have an order book.

大約三分之一的船隊將採用氨或氫作為動力，我們船隊的平均船齡為六年，因此是一支非常年輕的船隊。查看擬議合併的一些財務指標。該船隊的總公平市價為 111 億美元。如果合併完成，我們估計每股淨值將接近 15 美元。我們的資本支出承諾不會發生太大變化，因為 Golden Ocean 實際上沒有訂單。

So that still stands at $2.2 billion. And then we would have a listing of CMB.TECH in New York, NYC in Brussels, Euronext and we would apply for a listing on Oslo Børs to have CMB.TECH listed in Norway as well. You can see at the bottom of the slide, the fleet overview with the notable change if the merger goes through of adding 91 vessels to our Dry-Bulk division, which in one go will then become the biggest division in our group.

所以這個數字還是 22 億美元。然後，我們將在紐約、布魯塞爾、泛歐交易所上市 CMB.TECH，並且我們將申請在奧斯陸證券交易所上市，讓 CMB.TECH 也在挪威上市。您可以在幻燈片底部看到船隊概況，如果合併順利完成，我們的乾散貨部門將增加 91 艘船隻，這將發生顯著變化，成為我們集團中最大的部門。

If you look at some of the open days and fixed days statistics, there's a lot of information on this slide, but I wanted to highlight the total number of days for 2025. That is assuming Golden Ocean and CMB.TECH together for the whole year would be 55,000 days.

如果你看一些開放日和固定日的統計數據，這張投影片上有很多信息，但我想強調 2025 年的總天數。這是假設 Golden Ocean 和 CMB.TECH 全年的總營業時間為 55,000 天。

If the merger goes through, in 2026, we would have 62,400 days combined, of which [18] will be covered by time charter contracts. We have added a slide following some questions from analysts on what's a pro forma free cash flow could look like for both companies over the year 2025.

如果合併成功，到 2026 年，我們的總航行天數將達到 62,400 天，其中 [18] 天將由定期租船合約覆蓋。根據分析師提出的一些問題，我們增加了一張投影片，內容是 2025 年兩家公司的預期自由現金流將會是什麼樣的。

At the bottom of the slide, you can see some of the sensitivities we have applied and sensitivities are mainly applied on the open days in the Tanker division, Euronav and in the Dry-Bulk division Bocimar combined with Golden Ocean.

在幻燈片的底部，您可以看到我們應用的一些敏感性，這些敏感性主要應用於油輪部門 Euronav 和乾散貨部門 Bocimar 與 Golden Ocean 的結合的開放日。

You can see that we have a kind of a mid-case forecasted case set for VLCCs and Suezmaxes around $50,000 a day for Newcastlemaxes and Capes at 26.5 and for Kamsarmaxes and Panamaxes at close to $14,000. We've then deducted 20% to have a low case, added 20% to have a high case.

您可以看到，我們對 VLCC 和蘇伊士型油輪的租金進行了中等預測，約為每天 50,000 美元；紐卡斯爾型油輪和好望角型油輪的租金為每天 26.5 美元；卡姆薩爾型油輪和巴拿馬型油輪的租金接近每天 14,000 美元。然後我們扣除 20% 得到低分，加上 20% 得到高分。

And what is under conclusion is that you can see that for the year in the low case, we will have a free cash flow generation, excluding any additional sale of vessels of $250 million, a high case at $750 million and our base case at $0.5 billion this year.

結論是，您可以看到，在最低預期下，今年我們將產生自由現金流，不包括任何額外的船舶銷售，金額為 2.5 億美元，最高預期為 7.5 億美元，而基本預期為 5 億美元。

You can also see on this slide that this is, of course, very heavily skewed towards our VLCC and Suezmax segments and our Capesize segment. I would like now to hand it over to Joris Daman, our Head of Investor Relations, to talk about the impact of the MEPC 83, the meeting at the IMO that was talking about greenhouse gas emissions. Joris, over to you.

您也可以在這張投影片上看到，這當然嚴重偏向我們的 VLCC 和 Suezmax 部分以及我們的好望角型船部分。現在我想把時間交給我們的投資者關係主管 Joris Daman，來談談 MEPC 83 的影響，MEPC 83 是國際海事組織關於溫室氣體排放的會議。喬里斯，交給你了。

Yes. Thank you, Alex. At the heart of CMB.TECH, strategy decarbonization is really important. Now decarbonization is either supported by self-imposed targets by our clients, by our charters or, on the other hand, by the regulation that is already in place today, for example, FuelEU Maritime, started this year, EU ETS, which started January last year and then now really supercharged by MEPC 83, which was initially voted a couple of weeks ago, and will be up for vote in October of this year. Now MEPC 83, if you look at the regulation on the next slide, from a framework perspective, there are some key items that you really need to think about.

是的。謝謝你，亞歷克斯。在CMB.TECH的核心中，策略性脫碳非常重要。現在，脫碳要么得到我們客戶自我設定的目標的支持，要么得到我們章程的支持，或者，另一方面，得到已經到位的法規的支持，例如，今年開始實施的 FuelEU Maritime，去年 1 月開始實施的歐盟排放交易體系，現在得到了幾週前初步投票通過的 MEPC 83 的大力支持，並將於今年 10 月進行投票。現在，如果您查看下一張投影片中的規定，從框架的角度來看，您會發現一些您真正需要考慮的關鍵事項。

MEPC 83 is about fuel intensity. So it looks at the intensity of a ship's fuel usage so slow speeds or slow steaming will not help in order to improve your intensity of your fuel, you need to blend in either biofuels or use other low carbon sources within the engine of the vessel.

MEPC 83 是關於燃料強度的。因此，它關注的是船舶燃料使用的強度，因此低速或慢速航行不會有助於提高燃料的強度，您需要在船舶引擎中混合生物燃料或使用其他低碳源。

Now it is a tiered implementation where we have -- the green is a direct compliance tier. So meaning that, for example, in 2028, if you reduce your fuel intensity by 17%, you're in direct compliance and you do not need to pay any penalties. If you go further, you can even pull or bank those additional units by your over compliance.

現在，它是一個分層實施，其中，綠色是直接合規層。這意味著，例如，在 2028 年，如果你將燃料強度降低 17%，你就直接合規了，不需要支付任何罰款。如果你更進一步，你甚至可以透過過度遵守規定來提取或儲存這些額外的單位。

Now there are two other tiers, and those tiers will be penalized. You have Tier 1 deficit. This is when you do reduce your fuel intensity by 4% in 2028, you will only need to pay $100 per ton of CO2 equivalent on a Well-to-Wake basis, and if you do not achieve this minus 4%, you will need to pay a Tier 2 deficit, which is USD 300 per ton of CO2 equivalent. Do mind that one ton of fuel is actually emitting three tons of CO2. So these are hefty penalties, which increased over the years between 2028 and 2050.

現在有另外兩個等級，這些等級將受到懲罰。您有第一層赤字。這意味著，如果您在 2028 年確實將燃料強度降低 4%，則您只需按 Well-to-Wake 基礎支付每噸二氧化碳當量 100 美元，如果您未實現這一目標減去 4%，則需要支付第 2 級赤字，即每噸二氧化碳當量 300 美元。請注意，一噸燃料實際上會排放三噸二氧化碳。因此，這些都是嚴厲的處罰，並且在 2028 年至 2050 年間處罰力度不斷增加。

Now on the next slide, we made a translation on what does that actually mean on the fuel price that an owner needs to pay for. So the left-hand side of the graph is showing the USD per ton LSFO equivalent. Now there are two major tipping points that you can see on the graph. In 2032, by either LSFO blended with biodiesel or LSFO with a low carbon fuel like, for example, ammonia will be at par.

現在在下一張幻燈片中，我們解釋了車主需要支付的燃油價格實際上意味著什麼。因此，圖表左側顯示的是每噸 LSFO 的美元等值價格。現在您可以在圖表上看到兩個主要的轉折點。到 2032 年，無論是低硫燃料 (LSFO) 與生質柴油混合，還是低硫燃料 (LSFO) 與低碳燃料（例如氨）的混合，其價格都將持平。

So meaning that in 2032, an owner will pay the same amount, including all the penalties and the fines for low sulfur fuel oil with biodiesel blend or low sulfur fuel oil with an uptake of green ammonia. A second important tipping point is 2038, where you can see that this is the first year where dual-fueled ammonia ship will have a lower bunker bill compared to an LNG carrier or an LNG fueled engine or an LSFO with biodiesel blended engine.

這意味著到 2032 年，船東將支付相同的金額，包括使用低硫燃料油與生物柴油混合物或使用低硫燃料油與綠色氨混合所支付的所有罰款和罰金。第二個重要的轉捩點是 2038 年，屆時您會發現，這是雙燃料氨船的燃油費用首次低於 LNG 運輸船或 LNG 燃料引擎或 LSFO 與生物柴油混合引擎的燃油費用。

Now, it's important to take into consideration or into mind, we have used several forecasts here. So availability of fuel, pricing of fuel, we have used here the Maersk Mc-Kinney Moller Institute of decarbonization to define these costs, and it could mean that if the availability of ammonia is bigger and cheaper that those tipping points either move forward or in a bad scenario, move a bit further down the line. Now this shows the impact on the fuel costs on a per day basis.

現在，重要的是要考慮或記住，我們在這裡使用了幾種預測。因此，對於燃料的可用性、燃料的定價，我們在這裡使用了馬士基麥金尼莫勒脫碳研究所的數據來定義這些成本，這可能意味著，如果氨的可用性更大、更便宜，那麼這些臨界點要么向前移動，要么在糟糕的情況下，進一步向後移動。現在這顯示了每天燃料成本的影響。

But if we order today a ship, we are lucky to have it delivered by, let's say, 2028. And there, we need to operate that ship throughout the next 20 years throughout its entire life cycle. And here, it becomes really clear that ordering today a dual-fuel ammonia power chip does pay back over the lifetime of the ship.

但如果我們今天訂購一艘船，那麼很幸運能在 2028 年之前交付。我們需要在未來 20 年內，在整個生命週期中運作這艘船。從這裡就可以看出，今天訂購雙燃料氨動力晶片確實會在船舶的整個使用壽命內帶來回報。

We made a comparison of a ship delivered 2028 operational until 2048 and have added all the fuel costs, including all the penalties under MEPC83. And there you see that there is a positive case for low sulfur fuel oil blended with low carbon ammonia of roughly $70 million compared to either biodiesel blend or LNG blend with bio-methane, making the case already today to order a dual fuel cited ammonia-powered vessel.

我們對 2028 年交付並運營至 2048 年的船舶進行了比較，並添加了所有燃料成本，包括 MEPC83 下的所有罰款。由此可見，與生物柴油混合物或液化天然氣與生物甲烷的混合物相比，低硫燃料油與低碳氨混合的有利條件是其價格約為 7000 萬美元，這使得今天就可以訂購雙燃料氨動力船。

Thank you, Joris. It's very clear. I would like now to take you to a market update throughout all our Marine divisions. And starting with a general overview on supply-demand per division and where we feel the market is. On the Tankers, you will see that the growth in ton-mile for crude oil is relatively flat, forecasted for this year and next year.

謝謝你，喬里斯。非常清楚。現在我想向大家介紹一下我們所有海事部門的市場最新情況。首先概述一下每個部門的供需情況以及我們對市場的看法。在油輪上，你會看到，預計今年和明年原油噸英里的成長相對穩定。

But at the same time, the order book to fleet still sits at historical low levels, and the age of the fleet is still increasing. On balance, even with a flattish demand, we think that the supply side of things is looking good, and we are positive for the crude oil markets.

但同時，船舶訂單量仍處於歷史低位，且船隊船齡仍在增加。總的來說，即使需求持平，我們認為供應方面的情況仍然良好，我們對原油市場持樂觀態度。

We have today, 22 vessels on the spot market and eight ships that are on time charter, plus two ships coming on the new building side, which are also chartered. Moving to Dry-Bulk. This year, it looks like to be kind of a muted year, relatively flattish, definitely the first half of the year we have seen demand relatively underwhelming, but we do expect definitely specifically for Capesize, ton-mile demand to increase.

目前，我們在現貨市場上有 22 艘船，其中 8 艘船是按期租用的，另外還有兩艘新建造的船，也是租用的。轉向乾散貨。今年看起來是比較平靜的一年，相對平淡，上半年我們看到的需求相對低迷，但我們確實預計，特別是對於好望角型船、噸英里的需求肯定會增加。

And again, the same story as for tankers, the order book to fleet looks interesting because we are at historical lows around 7%, 8%, definitely for the Capesizes and we see that the average age of our fleet is going up as well. In conclusion, we are positive for Dry-Bulk. We have today 14 vessels on the water.

和油輪的情況一樣，船隊的訂單量看起來很有趣，因為我們處於歷史低點 7%、8% 左右，對於好望角型船來說肯定如此，而且我們看到我們船隊的平均船齡也在上升。綜上所述，我們對乾散貨市場持樂觀態度。目前我們有 14 艘船在水上。

That is, of course, excluding the Golden Ocean fleet, which might be added when the merger or if the merger is approved later in Q3. On the Container side, a lot has happened over the last couple of months. The two major issues were the tariffs that were imposed by the Trump administration in the US.

當然，這不包括 Golden Ocean 船隊，該船隊可能會在合併時或合併在第三季後期獲得批准時加入。在容器方面，過去幾個月發生了很多事情。兩個主要問題是美國川普政府徵收的關稅。

Tariffs on, tariffs off, we will see what it will be in the second half of this year. But it's important to highlight that 8% of TEU miles have fallen under the tariffs. It's now been suspended, but we will now have to see what comes next. The second big development is a possible peace deal with Houthis and Hemen which would stop the attacks on merchant ships in the Red Sea.

加徵關稅，取消關稅，我們將看看今年下半年會發生什麼。但必須強調的是，8%的 TEU 英里數已受到關稅影響。現在它已被暫停，但我們現在必須看看接下來會發生什麼。第二項重大進展是可能與胡塞武裝和赫爾曼達成和平協議，以阻止對紅海商船的攻擊。

If container vessels go through the Red Sea again, we will see TEU miles go down, which again would not really be positive for trade, combine that with a relatively high order book, which stands around 30% for the container side on the short term, one to two years, we are cautious, will, of course, as a company, always look at opportunities. But right now, we have zero ships on the spot market. All our ships are chartered. four are on the water and one is coming next year.

如果貨櫃船再次穿越紅海，我們將看到 TEU 英里數下降，這對貿易來說並不是真正的利好，再加上訂單量相對較高，短期內（一到兩年）貨櫃訂單量約為 30%，我們對此持謹慎態度，當然，作為一家公司，我們會一直尋找機會。但目前現貨市場上的船舶數量為零。我們所有的船都是租來的。其中四艘已經在水上，還有一艘將於明年到岸。

Chemical tanker trades. We have moved our opinion to being a bit more cautious. We are seeing product tankers, specifically MR tankers come into the market. The order book to fleet is reasonable, but we see that demand is not so very high and with the product tankers coming into our market this has put some kind of downward pressure on rates. This being said, the vessels that we are operating on the spot market are still earning close to $20,000 a day, which is definitely good.

化學品船貿易。我們的觀點變得更加謹慎。我們看到成品油輪，特別是 MR 型油輪進入市場。船隊的訂單量合理，但我們發現需求不是很高，而且隨著成品油輪進入我們的市場，這給運費帶來了一定的下行壓力。話雖如此，我們在現貨市場上運營的船隻每天仍然可以賺取近 20,000 美元，這絕對是好事。

And we have another four ships on charter, plus 10 vessels coming, which are all fixed on long term. Finishing with offshore wind, seeing very healthy growth on the European market in terms of new offshore wind projects. Growth of 15% this year, 22% next year, as expected. We are seeing the CTV and the CSOV fleet growing as well. But in balance, we believe there is more demand for our ships then there will be supply of vessels.

我們還有另外四艘船正在租賃中，另外還有十艘船即將租賃，這些船都是長期租賃的。最後以離岸風電為例，歐洲市場上新的離岸風電專案成長非常健康。今年成長15%，明年成長22%，符合預期。我們看到 CTV 和 CSOV 船隊也在不斷壯大。但總體而言，我們相信對我們船舶的需求將大於船舶的供應。

So we are positive for our CTVs and CSOVs. Zooming in a bit more in detail on Euronav and the tanker markets. You can see what we have earned on the spot market for VLCCs and Suezmaxes in Q1, $35,000 and $41,000, which are good and healthy rates for the second quarter, we have already fixed the rates as we have highlighted in our earnings release, $40,000 for VLCCs and $42,000 for the Suezmaxes.

因此，我們對我們的 CTV 和 CSOV 持樂觀態度。更詳細介紹一下 Euronav 和油輪市場。您可以看到我們第一季在 VLCC 和蘇伊士型油輪現貨市場上的盈利情況，分別為 35,000 美元和 41,000 美元，這對於第二季度來說是良好且健康的運價，我們已經確定了運價，正如我們在收益報告中強調的那樣，VLCC 為 40,000 美元，蘇伊士型油為 200,000 美元。

About two-third of the days have already been fixed. When we look at some other highlights and Euronav already mentioned by Ludovic, we sold three VLCCs, which will deliver in Q2 and Q3, a capital gain of $100 million.

大約三分之二的時間已經確定。當我們回顧其他一些亮點以及 Ludovic 已經提到的 Euronav 時，我們出售了三艘 VLCC，這些 VLCC 將在第二季和第三季交付，資本利得為 1 億美元。

And then we finally delivered to their new owners, some vessels the Alsace and the Cap Lara, which generated a profit of more than $45 million. A lot of indicators on crude oil demand are positive, be it a little bit lower than what we would have hoped for. If we look at the long-term market attractiveness of tankers, we believe it's positive, the aging fleet, the low order book.

最後我們終於將一些船隻「阿爾薩斯號」和「卡普拉拉號」交付給了新主人，創造了超過 4500 萬美元的利潤。許多原油需求指標都是正面的，儘管比我們期望的略低。如果我們看一下油輪的長期市場吸引力，我們認為這是積極的，船隊老化，訂單量低。

And even with global GDP, which has been corrected downwards a bit, we still see positive oil demand growth. We do see a disconnect between the oil that will be produced and the oil that will be consumed. Usually, that is a positive for tankers because more will be stored -- can be stored on tankers and that should increase demand for our ships.

即使全球GDP略有下調，我們仍然看到石油需求正在成長。我們確實看到石油產量和石油消費量之間存在脫節。通常，這對油輪來說是一件好事，因為更多的貨物可以儲存在油輪上，這應該會增加對我們船舶的需求。

On Iran, we believe that any change to the status quo could be positive. If sanctions increase on Iran, we will see more oil being moved on conventional tankers from other areas like Saudi Arabia, if sanctions are relieved only Iran, we believe and hope that the dark fleet will be pushed away by conventional tankers. So in both cases, a change to the status quo will be positive. And then OPEC, a lot has been said and written about what we see.

關於伊朗問題，我們認為現狀的任何改變都可能是正面的。如果對伊朗的製裁增加，我們將看到更多的石油透過常規油輪從沙烏地阿拉伯等其他地區運輸，如果僅對伊朗解除制裁，我們相信並希望黑暗艦隊將被常規油輪趕走。因此，在這兩種情況下，改變現狀都是正面的。然後是歐佩克，關於我們所看到的情況，已經有很多言論和文章。

We've put a little recap for those who can't follow anymore on what's happening in OPEC+ on the left side of the slide. You can see that there were group cuts, voluntary cuts, first move, voluntary comes the second move. A lot of talk about unwinding the voluntary cuts happened last year and the year before, but we saw that they were basically postponed continuously. So volumes were not being increased at OPEC. And then in December, we could start seeing that the narrative was changing to a gradual unwinding of the cuts.

對於那些無法繼續關注 OPEC+ 動態的人，我們在幻燈片左側做了一個小回顧。您可以看到，有集體切入、自願切入、第一步，第二步是自願切入。去年和前年有很多關於取消自願減稅的討論，但我們發現這些討論基本上被不斷推遲。因此，OPEC的產量並未增加。然後在十二月，我們開始看到敘事正在轉變為削減的逐步解除。

So adding some barrels to the market, but at a very low level. And then suddenly, you can see that things accelerated whether or not it had to do with the Trump administration talking to some of the OPEC members, but definitely, there is a lot more movement in terms of announcing more volumes to the market. April was very slow.

因此，市場上增加了一些桶，但水平非常低。然後突然間，你可以看到事情加速了，無論這是否與川普政府與一些歐佩克成員國的談話有關，但肯定的是，在宣布向市場增加產量方面有了更多的動作。四月過得很慢。

We haven't seen it yet, but we are seeing some pickup in May -- and it should -- if the full 2.2 million barrels will be unwind continue to add volumes all the way until November, which again, would definitely be positive for the month. The flip side of things, of course, is that the oil price has tanked.

我們還沒有看到這種情況，但我們在 5 月份看到了一些回升 - 而且應該如此 - 如果全部 220 萬桶的產量能夠繼續增加到 11 月份，那麼這對本月來說肯定是利好消息。當然，事情的另一面是油價暴跌。

And when you look at the forward curve, you can see that there's been a big movement in the forward curve and that prices are expected to be lower. Now I want to pass to Dry-Bulk, Bocimar and the dry-bulk markets. As said before, we have 14 ships on the water of our Newcastlemaxes and newbuildings. There's another 14 coming this year and in 2026 and 2 ships in 2027. We still have 5 ships to deliver this year. The first quarter on dry-bulk was traditionally slow.

當你觀察遠期曲線時，你會發現遠期曲線出現了很大的波動，而且價格預計會走低。現在我想談談乾散貨、Bocimar 和乾散貨市場。如前所述，我們共有 14 艘 Newcastlemax 型船和新造船在水上航行。今年和 2026 年還將有 14 艘新船下水，2027 年還將有 2 艘新船下水。我們今年還有5艘船要交船。乾散貨運輸第一季通常表現低迷。

We made earnings of $18,400 on our Newcastlemaxes fleet, which is below our P&L breakeven but we have seen our bookings for the second quarter pickup again. We have about three-fourth of our days already fixed at $24,000 a day. Our ships are very modern. Our ships are very economical and efficient. So we are outperforming the Baltic 5TC by a good 40%.

我們的 Newcastlemaxes 船隊獲利 18,400 美元，低於我們的損益平衡點，但我們發現第二季的訂單量再次回升。我們大約四分之三的工作日薪資已經固定為每天 24,000 美元。我們的船非常現代化。我們的船舶非常經濟、有效率。因此，我們的表現比波羅的海 5TC 高出 40%。

Of course, our ships also have more intake than a classical 180 Capesize. Two very important deals were signed in our dry-bulk division during the first quarter. The deal with MOL for three ammonia-powered Newcastlemaxes and then the deal for one ship with Fortescue. You can see that on the indicators for dry-bulk seaborne trade, there are some positives, some negatives. Overall, we believe that the balance is positive.

當然，我們的船舶的進水量也比傳統的 180 噸好望角型船舶還要大。第一季度，我們的乾散貨部門簽署了兩項非常重要的交易。與 MOL 達成了購買三艘以氨為動力的 Newcastlemax 型船的交易，然後與 Fortescue 達成了購買一艘船的交易。您可以看到，乾散貨海運貿易指標有正面的一面，也有負面的一面。總體而言，我們認為平衡是正面的。

We're highlighting a couple of key trends -- short-term key trends. We see that the Atlantic Iron Ore trade out of Brazil, for instance, is positive. You can see the trend lines on the left side between 2022 and 2025. We are above previous years. We are coming in the seasonally stronger second half of the year where we see that the weather-related disturbance are going away.

我們重點關注幾個關鍵趨勢—短期關鍵趨勢。例如，我們看到巴西的大西洋鐵礦石貿易呈現正態勢。您可以在左側看到 2022 年至 2025 年之間的趨勢線。我們比往年更好。我們即將進入季節性強勁的下半年，我們看到與天氣相關的干擾正在消失。

Dryer weather means more exports can come from the Atlantic Basin which, again, should be good for the dry-bulk market in general and specifically for Capes and Newcastlemaxes. Guinea, the West African trade is a very important trade has tremendously increased over the last 7 to 10 years to very significant volumes, as you can see on this slide.

天氣乾燥意味著大西洋盆地的出口量會增加，這對整個乾散貨市場，特別是好望角型船和紐卡斯爾型船來說，應該是有利的。幾內亞，西非貿易是一項非常重要的貿易，在過去的 7 到 10 年間，貿易額大幅增長，達到了非常可觀的水平，正如您在這張投影片上看到的那樣。

Again, volumes have been very strong, but we're expecting that volumes will continue to pick up as the year proceeds. And this is, again, a long haul, good ton-mile trade out of the Atlantic. The flip side is that the Australian Iron Ore trade has disappointed somewhat mainly weather related.

再次，交易量一直非常強勁，但我們預計隨著時間的推移，交易量將繼續回升。這又是一次遠距離、良好的大西洋噸英里貿易。另一方面，澳洲鐵礦石貿易有些令人失望，主要原因是天氣原因。

We expect that when these weather disturbances have gone away that we will see more volume coming out of the Pacific on iron ore. Long-term dry-bulk market trends is on the supply side, an aging fleet, a low order book but something we are going to continue to highlight as well is that over the next three years, one-fourth of the fleet will have to undergo a special survey and that will create a crunch on capacity because all these ships will need to go through their second and third special surveys and will be taken out of the market for a longer period of time.

我們預計，當這些天氣幹擾消失後，我們將看到更多的鐵礦石從太平洋運出。乾散貨市場的長期趨勢是供應方面，船隊老化，訂單量低，但我們將繼續強調的是，在未來三年內，四分之一的船隊將必須接受特別調查，這將造成運力緊張，因為所有這些船舶都需要經過第二次和第三次特別調查，並將在更長的時間內退出市場。

So on the supply side, things are still looking very good. On the demand side, I said in general, the dry-bulk trade has been slow so far this year. But when we look into the pockets of growth that are important for our larger Capesize and Newcastlemax fleet being iron ore and is looking very positive for the reasons that I already just mentioned, but we do see support on the coal story, specifically for India and China.

因此，從供應方面來看，情況仍然非常好。在需求方面，我說過，總體而言，今年迄今為止乾散貨貿易一直較為緩慢。但是，當我們研究對我們較大的好望角型船和紐卡斯爾型船隊來說重要的增長點時，鐵礦石看起來非常積極，原因我剛才提到了，但我們確實看到了煤炭方面的支持，特別是對印度和中國而言。

And then for the smaller sizes, we see the grain trade still growing very healthily. Of course, adding the Golden Ocean fleet to the story will only be beneficial, we believe, for CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean going forward.

對於較小規格的糧食，我們看到糧食貿易仍然非常健康地成長。當然，我們相信，將 Golden Ocean 船隊納入只會對 CMB.TECH 和 Golden Ocean 的未來發展有益。

The long-term view for our Capes and Newcastlemaxes is that even though things have been relatively slow in the recent months, we see a stronger second half of the year and definitely a strong '26, probably even 2027, that will translate itself into much better utilization rates on our fleet, better utilization will mean better rates for our ships. And then wrapping up with our three smaller divisions, starting with Delphis on the Container side. I already mentioned the two key trends on the Red Sea and the tariffs.

對於我們的好望角型船和紐卡斯爾型船而言，長期來看，儘管最近幾個月發展相對緩慢，但我們預計下半年將會更加強勁，2026 年，甚至 2027 年也一定會更加強勁，這將轉化為我們船隊的更高利用率，更好的利用率意味著我們船舶的費率更高。然後總結我們的三個較小的部門，首先是容器方面的 Delphis。我已經提到了紅海和關稅這兩個關鍵趨勢。

As you know, we don't have any spot exposure in Delphis, some people have asked us when we would start reinvesting in container vessels. It is definitely on our agenda, but we want to wait the right moment in the cycle. And so far, as we said, we are cautious because of the high supply of ships coming and some of the positive demand drivers unwinding this year and next.

如你所知，我們在德爾菲斯沒有任何現貨投資，有人問我們什麼時候開始對貨櫃船進行再投資。這肯定在我們的議程上，但我們希望等待週期中的正確時機。到目前為止，正如我們所說，我們持謹慎態度，因為船舶供應量很大，而且今年和明年一些積極的需求驅動因素正在減弱。

Zooming in on the chemical tankers, I already mentioned the key drivers there, the MR tankers coming into our market. When you look at our results, even though the spot rates are slightly lower than they were last year, we are still seeing very good ways.

放大化學品油輪，我已經提到了那裡的關鍵驅動因素，即進入我們市場的 MR 油輪。從我們的業績來看，儘管現貨價格比去年略低，但我們仍然看到了非常好的走勢。

We are very satisfied with the performance of our spot fleet. And again, the majority of our fleet is fixed on long-term charters. Ending with the CSOVs. This is a very recent picture taken. I was in Vietnam 2 weeks ago, it's still not only one but three of our beautiful ships and you can see them there.

我們對我們的現貨船隊的表現非常滿意。而且，我們的船隊大部分都是長期租船。以 CSOV 結束。這是最近拍攝的照片。兩週前我去過越南，那裡還有不只一艘而是三艘我們漂亮的船，你可以在那裡看到它們。

One is already nearly ready, which is the Windcat Rotterdam, but we have the Windcat Amsterdam and the Windcat Haarlem, which you can see at the left side of the slide, which are already flowed being finished for delivery later this year. So these three CSOVs will deliver this year and maybe early next year.

其中一艘已經接近準備就緒，即 Windcat 鹿特丹號，但我們還有 Windcat 阿姆斯特丹號和 Windcat 哈勒姆號（您可以在幻燈片左側看到它們），它們已經完工，將於今年稍後交付。因此，這三艘 CSOV 將於今年或明年年初交付。

The key trends in offshore wind, but also oil and gas because these vessels can also trade in the oil and gas trades is that we see very good growth in new projects in Europe, which is our main market, but we also see that for our CSOVs demand is starting to pick up in Asia. So you do not be surprised if one of our vessels would be fixed in Asia when she delivers from the yard in Vietnam. That wraps up our market update.

離岸風電以及石油和天然氣的主要趨勢是，由於這些船舶也可以從事石油和天然氣貿易，我們看到歐洲（我們的主要市場）的新項目增長非常好，但我們也看到亞洲對我們的 CSOV 的需求開始回升。因此，如果我們的一艘船從越南船廠交付後在亞洲進行維修，您不必感到驚訝。這就是我們的市集更新內容。

We have added a slide of our still very extensive order book of 43 vessels. You can see the ship types and the delivery dates. In this presentation, but I will not dwell into too much detail on that. I would rather thank you for your attention for the first part of the presentation and hand it over to Enya to go through the Q&A. And maybe before I do that, just conclude maybe one point on each of the three points we have added there.

我們新增了一張幻燈片，其中顯示了我們仍然非常龐大的 43 艘船舶訂單。您可以查看船舶類型和交貨日期。在本次演講中，我不會對此進行過多的詳細闡述。我寧願感謝您對演講第一部分的關注，並將其交給 Enya 進行問答。在我這樣做之前，也許可以先就我們之前添加的三個要點分別總結出一個要點。

The term sheet with Golden Ocean, of course, is, I think, the main event of the quarter. Our portfolio, having added $1 billion of contracts is a strong highlight for the quarter as well. And as we said, we have not really changed our view on our different subsegments and markets. Definitely, we are bullish on the tanker side and on the dry-bulk side as was exemplified with our investment in Golden Ocean. Enya, over to you.

當然，我認為與 Golden Ocean 簽訂的條款清單是本季的主要事件。我們的投資組合增加了 10 億美元的合同，這也是本季的一大亮點。正如我們所說，我們並沒有真正改變對不同細分市場和市場的看法。毫無疑問，我們看好油輪和乾散貨市場，我們對 Golden Ocean 的投資就證明了這一點。恩雅，交給你了。

(Operator Instructions) [Frode], you may now unmute and ask your question, please.

（操作員指示）[Frode]，您現在可以取消靜音並提出您的問題。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks for the good slides on the MEPC 83. Actually, I suggest we should call it IMO 2028, which is easier to remember and pronounce. And indeed, I mean, it's somewhat relatable to the IMO 2020, which many people remember, right, because then the industry were supposed to move out of high sulfur fuel oil into VLSFO, right? And now in 2028, we are supposed to move out of VLSFO. So -- and the solution is, of course, dual-fuel ships, right?

感謝您提供有關 MEPC 83 的精彩幻燈片。實際上，我建議我們應該稱之為 IMO 2028，這個更容易記住和發音。事實上，我的意思是，它在某種程度上與 IMO 2020 有關聯，很多人都記得，對吧，因為那時業界應該從高硫燃料油轉向 VLSFO，對吧？現在到了 2028 年，我們應該淘汰 VLSFO。那麼——解決方案當然是雙燃料船，對嗎？

And that's where you come in. And I think you made a compelling argument that's very profitable. So maybe you could talk about your ammonia solution and I guess you have some ready ships and some that are being built with engines as well, right? So if you can talk a bit about that, please?

這就是你要做的。我認為你提出的論點非常有說服力，而且非常有益。所以也許您可以談談您的氨解決方案，我想您已經有一些準備好的船隻，還有一些正在建造帶有發動機的船隻，對嗎？那您可以稍微談一下這個嗎？

Okay. Frode, like Joris has highlighted, we are very positive about the decision that was taken at the IMO. Some people think it was not ambitious enough. We would say that the glass is half full. It's a very strong step towards pushing people to having dual fuel engines and to start analyzing what is the best fuel of choice.

好的。弗羅德，正如喬里斯所強調的那樣，我們對國際海事組織所做的決定非常樂觀。有些人認為這還不夠雄心勃勃。我們會說杯子是半滿的。這是推動人們使用雙燃料引擎並開始分析最佳燃料選擇的非常強大的一步。

Because over the last couple of years, there's been a lot of debate about LNG, about methanol, about ammonia, about hydrogen. If we put all the data next to one another. And of course, with the caveat that this still needs to be ratified in the month of October. But if it goes through in October, or as the story is very clear. If you want to order a ship today, ammonia is the way to go.

因為在過去的幾年裡，關於液化天然氣、甲醇、氨、氫氣的爭論很多。如果我們把所有數據放在一起。當然，有一個條件，即該法案仍需在十月得到批准。但如果它在十月得以通過，那麼故事就很清楚了。如果您今天想訂船，那麼氨是最好的選擇。

If you want to operate a ship today, which is already on the water, ammonia will be the way to go, latest by 2032 if your alternative is diesel and 2038, if your alternative is LNG. With one very big important remark, we are using ammonia prices from the Maersk Center for decarbonization. Ammonia prices there sit at an equivalent of above $2,000 of diesel equivalent.

如果您現在想要操作一艘已經在水上航行的船舶，那麼氨氣將是最佳選擇，如果您的替代方案是柴油，最遲到 2032 年；如果您的替代方案是液化天然氣，最遲到 2038 年。有一點非常重要，我們正在使用馬士基中心的氨價格來進行脫碳。那裡的氨價格相當於2000美元以上的柴油價格。

We are seeing prices now being quoted to us for green ammonia that are much closer to $1,000 per ton, meaning that it would advance these deadlines to much earlier, maybe 2029, 2030 and then on the LNG competition 2032, 2033. All in all, we are very, very positive about the developments at the IMO, and we call it MEPC 83, but indeed, we should call it IMO 2028.

我們現在看到的綠色氨的報價接近每噸 1,000 美元，這意味著這些期限將提前到更早，可能是 2029 年、2030 年，然後是液化天然氣競爭的 2032 年、2033 年。總而言之，我們對國際海事組織的發展非常非常樂觀，我們稱之為 MEPC 83，但實際上，我們應該稱之為 IMO 2028。

Now what does this mean for our company? One, what you are seeing already, people are contacting us for the vessels that are fully ready with ammonia engines, and we are engaging with our customers now more and more. And as you can see, we already signed some contracts.

那麼這對我們公司意味著什麼？首先，正如您已經看到的，人們正在聯繫我們，詢問配備氨發動機的船舶，我們現在與客戶的互動也越來越多。如您所見，我們已經簽署了一些合約。

Going forward, for the fleet, which is ready to be retrofitted, we anticipate as well to have some very interesting discussions with customers on existing ships to put them through a dry dock and potentially retrofit them. Because now they suddenly have the visibility of where the deadlines are and how they could lower their fuel build and operate in compliance with IMO 2028.

展望未來，對於準備進行改裝的船隊，我們也期望與現有船舶的客戶進行一些非常有趣的討論，讓它們進入乾船塢並可能進行改裝。因為現在他們突然知道了最後期限在哪裡，以及如何降低燃料產量並按照 IMO 2028 的規定進行運作。

And whether that retrofit then happens in two or three years from now or already now, that is, of course, something we will discuss with our customers. Conclusion for us is the business case we have built up over the last couple of years is strengthened, thanks to the IMO.

至於這種改造是否會在兩三年後發生，或者現在已經發生，當然，我們會與客戶討論。我們的結論是，由於 IMO，我們在過去幾年中建立的商業案例得到了加強。

Yes, indeed, very interesting. Another question I had is you had the slide on the pro forma free cash flow. That's very interesting. Just a clarification. Is this including debt repayments?

是的，確實很有趣。我的另一個問題是，您有關於預測自由現金流的幻燈片。這很有趣。只是澄清一下。這包括償還債務嗎？

Yes. That's including debt repayments, excluding capital commitments to the yards. It has been a topic that analysts and investors have asked us, okay? So we have a big order book. You should always put in mind roughly $900 million to $1 billion every 12 months need to be paid at the yard, roughly $250 million per year has to be funded to fulfill that CapEx commitment.

是的。這包括債務償還，但不包括對船廠的資本承諾。這是分析師和投資人問過我們的一個主題，好嗎？因此我們有大量訂單。您應該始終記住，每年需要在船廠支付約 9 億到 10 億美元，每年需要資助約 2.5 億美元才能履行該資本支出承諾。

That is out of equity. Equity, we say operational cash flow, which we've tried to highlight here, or sale of vessels. What we have tried to put on the slide is that even in a somewhat more bearish scenario compared to our average forecast of minus 20% under the base case, we still generate $250 million of excess cash flow, which would already match with the unfunded CapEx that we have on a yearly basis. Now this is even excluding the excess cash we have on sale of ships. You've seen the three ships we've sold.

這不公平。股權，我們說的是經營現金流，我們試圖在這裡強調這一點，或船舶銷售。我們試圖指出的是，即使與基準情況下平均下降 20% 的預測相比，情況略微悲觀，我們仍然會產生 2.5 億美元的超額現金流，這已經與我們每年的無資金資本支出相匹配。現在這甚至還不包括我們出售船舶的過剩現金。您已經看到了我們售出的三艘船。

It's $100 million on the P&L. It's actually even more on cash that would come in on those ships. So that is the second buffer. Good market spot rates go even below our worst-case scenario. Obviously, we still have the capital -- the excess cash of sale of vessels to fund that CapEx.

損益表上有 1 億美元。實際上，這些船隻帶來的現金收入甚至更多。這就是第二個緩衝區。良好的市場現貨價格甚至低於我們最糟糕的預測。顯然，我們仍然有資本——出售船舶的多餘現金來資助該資本支出。

Great. That's very useful. So I guess, in 2026, you will have more vessel days on the Capes, right? So that should actually be even better, I guess, assuming similar cash breakeven rates for next year, right?

偉大的。這非常有用。所以我猜，到 2026 年，你們在好望角的航行時間會更長，對嗎？所以我想，假設明年的現金損益平衡率相似，那實際上應該會更好，對嗎？

Yes. That's correct. I mean, this is -- in one of the slides, you see that in 2026, we have roughly 62,000 ship days from which 12%. So [18] is long-term contracts, i.e., more than 80% is on the spot from which half of that is bulkers. So you can quickly calculate what the cash generation perspective could be if we hit $26,000 on average. Anything above that is obviously straight on an excess cash flow.

是的。沒錯。我的意思是，這是 - 在一張幻燈片中，您可以看到，到 2026 年，我們的船舶運行天數約為 62,000 天，其中 12%。因此[18]是長期合同，即超過 80% 是現場合同，其中一半是散裝貨船。因此，如果我們達到平均 26,000 美元，您可以快速計算出現金產生前景。任何高於該金額的金額顯然都會直接導致現金流過剩。

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, guys.

完美的。謝謝。謝謝你們。

The next one is Kristof. You can now unmute and ask your question, please.

下一個是克里斯托夫。現在您可以取消靜音並提出您的問題。

Maybe first also on alternative marine fuels and ammonia. So you have a partnership with WinGD for the engines. Just to remind me, is that an exclusivity partnership? And in terms of timing of the technology to the market, how does it compare to competitors? And on the long-term charters with MOL, do you already have some kind of visibility for what trade lanes they would be used green corridors or whether it will be point-to-point or not?

也許首先也研究替代船用燃料和氨。所以你們與 WinGD 就引擎問題建立了合作關係。只是提醒我一下，這是獨家合作關係嗎？就該技術進入市場的時機而言，與競爭對手相比如何？在與 MOL 簽訂的長期租船合約中，您是否已經對哪些貿易航線將使用綠色走廊或是否為點對點航線有所了解？

This is the first bulk of my questions. And then on the shipyards, regarding the port cost for China-linked vessels, do you see or do you expect significant changes in delivery schedules because of potential consequences? And regarding slots in shipyards, do you see or expect issues with capacity being reserved for defense orders?

這是我的第一個問題。那麼在造船廠方面，關於與中國相關的船隻的港口成本，您是否看到或預計交付時間表會因潛在後果而發生重大變化？關於造船廠的艙位，您是否看到或預計國防訂單的預留容量會出現問題？

Okay. Thanks, Kristof. So just on your questions on ammonia and WinGD, we have a partnership with WinGD. The WinGD can perfectly sell ammonia engines to other people. Obviously, they are delivering the first engines to us, and this is why we engage on that partnership.

好的。謝謝，克里斯托夫。關於您關於氨和 WinGD 的問題，我們與 WinGD 有合作關係。WinGD 可以完美地將氨發動機出售給其他人。顯然，他們正在向我們交付第一批發動機，這就是我們建立這種合作關係的原因。

So there is no exclusivity there. Actually, we can also work with other suppliers like MAN on ammonia engines, and we always choose the best supplier for the best engine. In terms of when the vessels will be ready, the first engine will be ready after the summer. As you know, we will take delivery of the first fully fitted ammonia vessel in January of next year. So that is when the very first ammonia Newcastlemax in the world will be delivered.

因此不存在排他性。實際上，我們也可以與 MAN 等其他供應商在氨發動機方面進行合作，而且我們始終選擇最好的供應商來生產最好的發動機。至於船隻何時準備就緒，第一台引擎將在夏季之後準備就緒。如您所知，我們將於明年一月接收第一艘全組裝的氨氣運輸船。屆時，世界上第一艘紐卡斯爾型氨油輪將交付。

And then we will take delivery of another seven in '26, one container vessel, and then on we go '27 and beyond. On MOL, the trade lane that MOL will put the vessels on has not been defined yet. But typically, it will be either Australia or Brazil, the two main trade lanes, but they might send them to Africa as well to Europe that we don't know yet. So no decision has been taken yet on where that vessel will be deployed. Some of the other questions?

然後，我們將在 26 年接收另外七艘貨櫃船，其中一艘為貨櫃船，然後我們將在 27 年及以後繼續接收。對於 MOL 而言，MOL 將把船隻停泊在哪條航線上尚未確定。但通常情況下，貨物要么經過澳大利亞，要么經過巴西，這兩條主要的貿易航線，但他們也可能會將貨物送到非洲以及歐洲，這一點我們還不知道。因此，目前尚未決定將該船部署到何處。還有其他一些問題嗎？

On the shipyards, you mentioned the impact of USTR. I think, in general, Kristof, the impact of USTR is still too early to say. We only know what has been publicly stated. But we also know that these things still have to be clarified. A lot of the shipping lawyers still don't even fully know what the impact will be on leasing, eventual ownership.

關於造船廠，您提到了美國貿易代表辦公室的影響。克里斯托夫，我認為，總體而言，現在談論 USTR 的影響還為時過早。我們只知道已經公開聲明的內容。但我們也知道，這些事情還有待澄清。許多航運律師甚至還不完全了解這將對租賃和最終所有權產生什麼影響。

So we still need some clarification there. What we do feel is that obviously there is somewhat of a reluctance from shipowners to go to the shipyards in China because of the potential impact of USTR. So that is definitely something that we're seeing right now. And there, we have to say that it will probably be more on certain specific ship types, for instance, container vessels. There will be more harder hit than other ship types, because there are quite a few junctions.

所以我們仍然需要一些澄清。我們確實感覺到，由於美國貿易代表辦公室的潛在影響，船東顯然不太願意去中國的造船廠。這絕對是我們現在看到的情況。我們必須說，它可能會更多地用於某些特定的船型，例如貨櫃船。由於有相當多的連接點，因此與其他類型的船相比，受到的打擊會更嚴重。

Because as we access, it's still a little bit too early to assess the impact for preliminary assessment for our group is that it will be a very limited impact. On your question on defense, capacity being reserved so that yards are not marketing the birds that they have. I would say we are not seeing that. We are not seeing that shipyards, commercial shipyards are still promoting their slots to different shipowners.

因為據我們了解，現在評估其影響還為時過早，但對於我們集團而言，初步評估的影響將非常有限。關於您關於防禦的問題，我們保留了產能，以便鳥場不會銷售他們擁有的鳥。我想說我們沒有看到這種情況。我們沒有看到船廠、商業船廠仍在向不同的船東推銷他們的船位。

Okay. And can you comment on recent press rumors on CMB.TECH, potentially ordering on 1 VLCC, 2 Suezmaxes and 2 options for -- 2 Suezmaxes?

好的。您能否對 CMB.TECH 上最近的新聞傳聞發表評論，可能訂購 1 艘 VLCC、2 艘蘇伊士型油輪和 2 艘蘇伊士型油輪的選擇權？

I can be very clear and short about that. We have not ordered these vessels and rumors fly because, obviously, people know that we are constantly looking at opportunities, but we have not ordered anything yet.

我可以非常清楚和簡短地說明這一點。我們還沒有訂購這些船隻，謠言四起，因為顯然人們知道我們一直在尋找機會，但我們還沒有訂購任何東西。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

[Eden, news]. You can amuse and ask your question.

[伊甸園，新聞]。您可以開玩笑並提出您的問題。

Hello, my name is [Vineeth Kumar]. I'm a private investor with a strong interest in shipping and hydrogen. I have two questions. First of all, could you please provide a brief update on the progress of your large-scale hydrogen and ammonia project in Namibia especially regarding the ammonia terminal and the PV2Fuel industrial production time line.

你好，我的名字是[維尼思·庫馬爾]。我是一名私人投資者，對航運和氫氣有著濃厚的興趣。我有兩個問題。首先，請您簡單介紹一下貴公司在納米比亞的大型氫氣和氨專案的進展情況，特別是氨終端和PV2Fuel工業生產時間表。

And the second, given the recent major investments in fleet expansion and Golden Ocean do these investments and shipping pose any risk to the funding or focus for your hydrogen and ammonia infrastructure projects. Thank you.

第二，鑑於最近對船隊擴張和 Golden Ocean 的大量投資，這些投資和航運是否會對您的氫氣和氨基礎設施項目的資金或重點構成風險。謝謝。

Thank you very much. So indeed, as you can see, we have not given you a clear update on what is happening in Namibia. That is because so far, there's not been a lot of news to be announced. So far what we have in Namibia is we have a hydrogen production station, which is being completed as we speak. We hope to start production of our first hydrogen molecules very soon.

非常感謝。所以確實，正如您所看到的，我們還沒有向您提供有關納米比亞最新情況的明確更新。這是因為到目前為止，還沒有太多的消息可以宣布。到目前為止，我們在納米比亞已經有一個氫氣生產站，目前​​正在完工。我們希望很快就能開始生產第一批氫分子。

That will be followed by possibly a small-scale ammonia production plant as well. And indeed, you referred to the ammonia terminal project. We are fully busy now with doing the detailed engineering for ammonia tank terminal in Walvis Bay and hope that in the following months, we can give more update on that. But that project is still very much alive. It's just that there's a lot of engineering work being done now.

隨後可能還會建造一座小規模的氨生產廠。確實，您提到了氨終端項目。我們現在正忙於鯨灣港氨罐碼頭的詳細工程，希望在接下來的幾個月裡，我們能夠提供更多相關資訊。但該項目仍然非常活躍。只是現在有很多工程工作正在進行中。

So not really any commercial update, we can give on that. It's a little bit too early. You mentioned the PV2Fuel project that we are also investing in Namibia. I could say the same then on the tank terminal, still doing a lot of engineering, securing the land plots, but proceeding as per plan. And hopefully, when we have something that we can announce, we will definitely communicate that to you.

因此，我們實際上無法提供任何商業更新。現在有點太早了。您提到了我們在納米比亞投資的PV2Fuel專案。我可以對油庫碼頭說同樣的話，仍然在進行大量工程，確保土地安全，但正在按計劃進行。我們希望，當我們有可以宣布的消息時，一定會告知你們。

I just wanted to recap that our philosophy in Namibia, is that we want to start with very clear projects that work, showcase it to the market that it can be done in Namibia, supplies to local users, local applications and then build and increase the scale gradually as we proceed. So this will be a theme that will definitely in next earnings calls come more and more as and when we have more meaningful things to announce, but that's still very much on the agenda.

我只是想重申我們在納米比亞的理念，那就是我們希望從非常明確可行的項目開始，向市場展示它可以在納米比亞實現，供應給當地用戶、當地應用，然後在我們推進的過程中逐步建設和擴大規模。因此，當我們有更多有意義的事情要宣佈時，這肯定會成為下次財報電話會議上越來越多出現的主題，但這仍然是議程上的重要內容。

Maybe just to add there because quite some investors and analysts have asked what this translate towards CapEx. I think in the next earnings call, which will be end of August, we will have a dedicated slide also, not just on the philosophy of why we're doing it, but also on the committed CapEx so that people can have a clear view on that.

也許只是補充一下，因為相當多的投資者和分析師都問過這對資本支出意味著什麼。我認為在下一次收益電話會議上（即 8 月底），我們也將提供一張專門的幻燈片，不僅介紹我們這樣做的原因，還介紹承諾的資本支出，以便人們對此有一個清晰的了解。

And then as to your point on -- if we have invested in Golden Ocean, does that mean that we have less money available for Namibia, I would say to the contrary. I believe that if the merger with Golden Ocean goes through, we will have a much bigger balance sheet, much more liquid share, much more access to different pockets of capital and financing.

然後至於您的問題——如果我們投資了 Golden Ocean，這是否意味著我們用於納米比亞的資金就會減少，我的答案恰恰相反。我相信，如果與 Golden Ocean 的合併成功，我們的資產負債表將更加龐大，流動性份額將更加充足，我們能夠獲得更多不同的資本和融資管道。

But I think that the Golden Ocean transaction will assist us in accelerating our projects in Namibia rather than putting us on a back step. So we do believe that the Golden Ocean transaction on the contrary will help us to continue our investments in the production of molecules. I hope that answers your question.

但我認為，Golden Ocean交易將幫助我們加速在納米比亞的項目，而不是讓我們倒退。因此，我們確實相信，Golden Ocean交易反而會幫助我們繼續投資分子生產。我希望這能回答你的問題。

Thank you so much. Sounds very interesting.

太感謝了。聽起來很有趣。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

The next person is [Gillian]. Gillian, you may now unmute and ask your question, please.

下一個人是[吉莉安]。吉莉安，你現在可以取消靜音並提問了。

I'm going to have to ask some hard questions. So I have listened attentively to all of your moves. And there are a couple of unsettling news that I heard today. So one of the things that I am not convinced that it's going in the right direction is your dry-bulk. What are your plans to improve your revenue on that sector besides -- put aside the merger, the proposed merger.

我將不得不問一些難題。所以我認真聆聽了你的一舉一動。今天我聽到了一些令人不安的消息。因此，我不確定事情是否朝著正確的方向發展的其中一件事就是乾散貨。除了合併和擬議的合併之外，您還有什麼計劃來提高該領域的收入？

And are you acquiring new sea routes? Or are you doing anything to increase your exposure on the spot? And -- the next question I'll be asking to Mr. Ludovic, but I want to know what is being done to improve the business, especially on your dry-bulk at this time?

你們正在獲取新的海上航線嗎？或者您正在做什麼來增加您的現場曝光率？並且——下一個問題是我要問 Ludovic 先生，但我想知道您正在採取什麼措施來改善業務，特別是目前的乾散貨業務？

So thanks a lot for your question. Look, the revenue in dry-bulk is not something you can control when you're active on the spot market because the market is the market. It's a very transparent market. It's a commoditized business. What we can do, of course, is build the best ships, the most efficient ships.

非常感謝您的提問。你看，當你活躍於現貨市場時，乾散貨的收入是你無法控制的，因為市場就是市場。這是一個非常透明的市場。這是一項商品化的業務。當然，我們能做的是建造最好的船、最有效率的船。

And based on the freight that we get on the market, have a better bottom line than older vessels. And I think we have proven that with our Newcastlemaxes. Let's look at our numbers on Q1. You say that it's very unsettling. I understand that you are disappointed in how the market was in Q1.

根據我們在市場上獲得的貨運量，我們的獲利能力比老船更好。我認為我們已經透過 Newcastlemax 證明了這一點。讓我們看看第一季的數據。你說這很令人不安。我知道您對第一季的市場表現感到失望。

But if you just compare with very similar vessels, we outperformed by 40%. So in a way, what are we doing to optimize our revenues? We are building very modern vessels, which in a given freight environment will always outperform other ship types.

但如果與非常相似的船隻相比，我們的表現就高出 40%。那麼從某種程度上來說，我們正在做什麼來優化我們的收入？我們正在建造非常現代化的船舶，在特定的貨運環境中，它們的表現將始終優於其他類型的船舶。

The fact that we've added or are trying to add more exposure to the dry-bulk market is that we really believe that even though for one or two quarters, the market might be a bit lower, the medium to long-term outlook is very promising. And in order to have a very promising result as well, we need to get access to the ships, and that is why we invested in Golden Ocean.

事實上，我們已經增加或正在嘗試增加對乾散貨市場的關注，因為我們確實相信，即使在一兩個季度內，市場可能會略有下降，但中長期前景非常樂觀。為了獲得非常有希望的結果，我們需要獲得船舶的使用權，這就是我們投資 Golden Ocean 的原因。

Are we adding sea routes as you say? We are per definition active on all the major routes with our fleet, and we will be even more active when the Golden Ocean and -- even Golden Ocean transaction goes through. It's scale of Golden Ocean will always be something that can also improve our revenues because we have more flexibility to position our vessels in the right basin and to catch the markets as and when they occur. Does that answer your question?

我們是否如您所說增加了海上航線？我們的船隊在所有主要航線上都很活躍，而且當 Golden Ocean 和——甚至 Golden Ocean 交易完成時，我們的活躍程度會更高。Golden Ocean 的規模始終能夠提高我們的收入，因為我們可以更靈活地將我們的船隻定位在正確的盆地中，並隨時抓住市場機會。這回答了你的問題嗎？

Thank you, Mr. Saverys. If at all possible, I have a question to Mr. Ludovic. So taking into consideration your report for Q1, the EPS obviously came $0.07 below the consensus estimates.

謝謝你，薩維里斯先生。如果可能的話，我想問 Ludovic 先生一個問題。因此，考慮到您第一季的報告，每股收益顯然比普遍預期低 0.07 美元。

That's one thing, that's understandable because of the market conditions. Now looking at your peers in the industry almost every single one of them didn't withhold paying dividends, but I see that nothing has been declared.

這是一方面，考慮到市場狀況，這是可以理解的。現在看看行業中的同行，幾乎每個人都沒有停止支付股息，但我發現他們沒有宣布任何股息。

And as an investor, I think it's one of the most important things for me to know that where are we going with that? Is that something your Supervisory Board has discussed? Or is that something to look forward to maybe in Q2. I'd like to know that as an investor?

作為一個投資者，我認為對我來說最重要的事情之一就是知道我們的目標是什麼？你們的監事會討論過這個事情嗎？或者這可能是第二季值得期待的事情。作為一名投資者，我想知道這一點嗎？

Absolutely. And I think it's a question we -- one, we get quite a lot. But two, is heavily debated at any given meeting we have with the Board and with the Management. I think we have currently a fully discretionary dividend policy. I think we have changed that from the previous management, previous company, Euronav, where they had a set percentage basis on net profits.

絕對地。我認為這是我們經常遇到的問題。但第二點，在我們與董事會和管理層的任何會議上都引起了激烈的爭論。我認為我們目前擁有完全自由裁量的股利政策。我認為我們已經改變了之前的管理階層、之前的公司 Euronav 的做法，他們之前對淨利潤有一個固定的百分比基礎。

We believe that with the growth that we're doing in the company, that the dividend has to follow basically the balance sheet and also the investment opportunities we have. We don't like to have set dividend policies based on net profits. Every time -- at the end of the quarter, we discussed with the Board, we have to decide that every dollar are we going to pay it out as dividends.

我們相信，隨著公司的發展，股利必須基本上遵循資產負債表以及我們的投資機會。我們不喜歡根據淨利潤制定股利政策。每次——在季度末，我們都會與董事會討論，我們必須決定每一美元是否都要作為股息支付。

Are we going to invest in new buildings, secondhand or buying companies. I think in the Capital Markets Day presentation that we've done, which is online as well, we very clearly stated that within the listed companies that the anchor shareholder has been in controlled, we have paid a lot of dividends previously.

我們要投資新建築、二手建築還是購買公司。我認為在我們所做的資本市場日演示中（也是在線上），我們非常清楚地表示，在錨定股東控制的上市公司中，我們之前已經支付了很多股息。

So we do like dividends, but there is a time on when you pay them. On average, you can see that throughout the last 25 years, we've paid 55% of net profits within the company's controlled by our family CMB.TECH, so it's definitely track records that highlights that we do pay dividends.

因此，我們確實喜歡股息，但支付股息也有時間限制。平均而言，你可以看到，在過去的 25 年裡，我們支付了我們家族控制的公司 CMB.TECH 的 55% 的淨利潤，因此，這絕對是突出我們確實支付股息的記錄。

And actually, last year, we paid quite some hefty dividends within CMB.TECH. Just for the moment and the growth as we are while we're doing a merger, while we have a big CapEx program, I think the Board has decided for this quarter not to pay. But it's something we analyze every quarter.

實際上，去年我們在CMB.TECH內部支付了相當可觀的股息。但考慮到目前的成長情況，以及我們正在進行合併，並且有龐大的資本支出計劃，我認為董事會已經決定本季度不支付股息。但這是我們每季都會分析的事情。

Okay. Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it. Thanks.

好的。感謝您的澄清。我很感激。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And then the next person who wants to ask a question is [Kimo], so you can now unmute and ask her a question.

下一個想要提問的人是 [Kimo]，所以你現在可以取消靜音並向她提問。

I wanted to ask about your fleet positioning pro forma for the merger. Dry-bulk will represent most of the open days. And looking at the medium term, are you comfortable with that position? And secondly, is there any appetite to continue consolidating the overall shipping industry?

我想詢問一下你們合併後的船隊定位計畫。乾散貨將佔據開放日的大部分份額。從中期來看，您對這個立場滿意嗎？其次，是否有意願繼續整合整個航運業？

Thank you. So yes, we are very comfortable having spot exposure on dry-bulk. It's also one of the reasons we did the Golden Ocean transaction for the reasons we just explained to you. We think that the supply-demand dynamics are very positive. And so going into the second half of this year, we're very happy to have the spot exposure.

謝謝。所以是的，我們非常樂意在乾散貨上進行現場曝光。這也是我們進行金洋交易的原因之一，原因我們剛才已經向大家解釋過了。我們認為供需動態非常積極。因此，進入今年下半年，我們很高興能夠獲得現場曝光。

Adding to that, as we've stated before, as and when we see that we can take some coverage, long-term contracts on our existing fleet at good rates, it's definitely something we will investigate. Our strategy is being spot oriented in combination with time charter cover and having a good balance between the two. So I think.

除此之外，正如我們之前所說，當我們發現可以以優惠的價格為現有車隊提供一些保險和長期合約時，我們肯定會進行調查。我們的策略是以現貨為導向，結合定期租船保障，並在兩者之間取得良好的平衡。我也這麼認為。

And I think, just to add to that, if I may, since we are diversified, we operate diversified assets. Some asset classes will be in a strong market, some will be in a somewhat lower market. I think what we try to do is use our contracts backlog, the $3 billion that we mentioned to eventually allow for a bigger spot exposure in markets that seem quite promising.

我想，如果可以的話，我只想補充一點，由於我們的業務多元化，所以我們經營的資產也多元化。一些資產類別將處於強勁的市場，一些資產類別將處於略低的市場。我認為我們嘗試做的是利用我們的合約積壓，也就是​​我們提到的 30 億美元，最終在看起來相當有前景的市場中獲得更大的現貨敞口。

But where, as of today, maybe the earnings that we've seen in Q1 for dry-bulk are not fantastic in terms of P&L and in terms of cash flow generation. The second part that we actually use by being a diversified shipping company and manage the risk of having a big spot exposure is having the access of a large fleet and be able to sell some assets.

但截至今天，我們所看到的干散貨運輸第一季的獲利情況在損益表和現金流產生方面可能並不理想。作為一家多元化航運公司，我們實際使用的第二部分是管理大量現貨風險，即擁有大型船隊的使用權並能夠出售一些資產。

As you've seen, every quarter, we sell a handful of assets, mostly the older assets, not just to fund some of the newbuilding program, but also to increase our liquidity position should the markets right now in some promising markets like dry-bulk, not be where we want them to be that at least we have always a strong balance sheet to go through that cycle and then catch the right opportunity when the market pick up

正如你所看到的，每個季度，我們都會出售少量資產，主要是較老的資產，不僅是為了資助一些新造船項目，也是為了增加我們的流動性狀況，以防目前一些有前景的市場，比如乾散貨市場，沒有達到我們想要的水平，至少我們一直有強勁的資產負債表來度過這個週期，然後在市場回暖時抓住合適的機會

Yes, makes sense. And Q1 is obviously the seasonally weaker quarter for dry, so no surprise there. You've provided a lot of commentary on how ammonia will become competitive in the medium term with the Capesize for example. However, I was wondering, how are you thinking about the fuel of choice for middle-sized assets, such as, say, Kamsarmaxes or CSOVs, both due to the lower nominal cost and lower fuel consumption?

是的，有道理。而第一季顯然是乾貨季節較淡的季度，所以這並不奇怪。例如，您就氨如何在中期內與好望角型船競爭發表了大量評論。不過，我想知道，您如何看待中型資產的燃料選擇，例如 Kamsarmaxes 或 CSOV，因為它們的名目成本較低，燃料消耗也較低？

We would say that we also believe, for instance, for Kamsarmaxes that ammonia will be the fuel of choice. It's just managing to find the engine that can be implemented and managing to find the right trading for Kamsarmaxes where the ammonia could be found.

我們會說，我們也相信，例如，對於 Kamsarmaxes 來說，氨將是首選燃料。這只是設法找到可以實施的引擎並設法找到可以找到氨的 Kamsarmaxes 的正確交易。

On the CSOVs, we know today that we are doing today hydrogen engines on board because of the shorter distances because hydrogen in certain areas will probably be preferred instead of ammonia. But we think that eventually, you could even have CSOVs on ammonia as well. It will always be a mix of cost of, of course, safety concerns and availability of the fuel.

在 CSOV 上，我們今天知道，由於距離較短，我們今天在船上使用氫發動機，因為在某些地區，氫氣可能比氨更受歡迎。但我們認為，最終甚至可以在氨上實現 CSOV。當然，它總是會涉及成本、安全問題和燃料可用性等多個因素。

We have stated many times before. And again, I know we have peers that have different views. We don't believe in methanol. We don't believe in LNG in the long term as a solution to decarbonize shipping. We think the two molecules of choice will be ammonia and hydrogen throughout the different segments.

我們之前已經說過很多次了。而且我知道我們的同行有不同的觀點。我們不相信甲醇。我們不相信液化天然氣能夠長期作為航運脫碳的解決方案。我們認為，在不同階段，首選的兩種分子將是氨和氫。

The smaller the ship is, the more you could go to hydrogen, the bigger it is, the more you will have to go to ammonia.

船越小，可以使用的氫氣越多；船越大，可以使用的氨就越多。

Makes sense. Thank you for taking my questions.

有道理。感謝您回答我的問題。

Yeah I see that, [Gillem] is still raising his hands, so I'm not sure if you still had a question, Gillian.

是的，我看到了，[吉勒姆] 仍然舉著手，所以我不確定你是否還有問題，吉莉安。

Just one quick last comment -- question, sorry, with a comment. One of the things that caught my attention was your fleet, your Euronav fleet for crude oil. What are we looking at? I'm looking more long term until end of 2026. From the management point of view, are we increasing the number of newer ships, are we acquiring new ships?

最後再簡單說一句——問題，抱歉，帶有評論。吸引我注意的一件事是你們的船隊，也就是你們的 Euronav 原油運輸船隊。我們在看什麼？我著眼於更長遠的未來，直到 2026 年底。從管理角度來看，我們是否在增加新船的數量，還是在收購新船？

And what is the projection on daily tonnage rates looking for the rest of 2025. Do you take in a consideration that the future seem to point downwards. Mr. Saverys what is the outlook?

2025 年剩餘時間的日噸位預測是多少？您是否考慮到未來似乎正走向下行？薩維里斯先生，前景如何？

We think the future is pointing upwards, but for 2025 and 2026, we are assuming rates anywhere between $40,000 and $60,000 a day on our VLCCs and on Suezmaxes. You also see that we are getting new building deliveries next year coming into our fleet. To your point of whether we will acquire new tonnage, we can do two things, either we can buy secondhand or we can order newbuildings.

我們認為未來是向上的，但到 2025 年和 2026 年，我們預計 VLCC 和蘇伊士型油輪的日租金將在 40,000 美元至 60,000 美元之間。您還會看到，明年我們將有新船交付到我們的船隊。關於您提到的我們是否會購買新噸位的問題，我們可以做兩件事，要么購買二手船，要么訂購新船。

Right now, we are very happy with the fleet composition we have. We might sell some older vessels and we will look opportunistically if the prices are okay, whether to order more vessels or possibly by more secondhand. But we actually think that the rates for the next 18 months could actually more go up and go down.

目前，我們對現有的船隊組成非常滿意。我們可能會出售一些較舊的船隻，如果價格合適，我們會尋找機會訂購更多船隻或購買更多二手船隻。但我們實際上認為，未來 18 個月的利率實際上可能會進一步上升和下降。

Okay, thank you. That's more positive. I appreciate it.

好的，謝謝。這更加積極。我很感激。

We don't have any live questions anymore, but we did receive a few written ones. So I will just ask them. The first one, you have a large amount of treasury shares. Could those be used for further acquisitions or reissued?

我們不再有任何現場提問，但確實收到了一些書面問題。所以我直接問他們吧。第一，你有大量庫存股。這些可以用於進一步收購或重新發行嗎？

We do one by one and yes, thanks. So it's a good question. So the company has acquired quite a few own shares in the last 18 months. Right now, we keep them. I think it's always good to have treasury shares that we bought at a very low price to be able to issue them on transactions. And this could be linked with the Golden Ocean transaction, it could be other transactions. But for the moment, we will not cancel those shares

我們一一進行，是的，謝謝。所以這是一個好問題。因此，該公司在過去 18 個月內收購了相當多的自有股份。現在，我們保留它們。我認為以非常低的價格購買庫存股並能夠在交易中發行總是好的。這可能與 Golden Ocean 交易有關，也可能是其他交易。但目前，我們不會取消這些股票

And the second one, what will be the availability of ammonia and hydrogen? Is hydrogen coming after (inaudible) with ammonia or never?

第二個問題是，氨和氫的供應量是多少？氫氣會隨著氨而來（聽不清楚）還是永遠不會出現？

Difficult to say. A lot of projects have been stopped on the hydrogen ammonia production. A lot of new projects are coming on stream. I think it will be an end-to-end story. We see ammonia projects coming onstream in the world.

很難說。氫氨生產項目大量停產。許多新項目正在上馬。我認為這將是一個完整的故事。我們看到世界各地紛紛投入營運的合成氨計畫。

We see hydrogen projects coming on stream. It will depend on the region and the time. It is slow, but we think that in the next five years, supply will accelerate.

我們看到氫能項目正在上線。這取決於地區和時間。雖然速度很慢，但我們認為未來五年內供應將會加速。

And I think there to add, there's a lot of wait-and-see attitude sometimes from product developers to take their FID because they want to see the demand for those end products. And where we believe that shipping could add a lot of visibility on demand that could accelerate decisions for this project to come online. So it's a little bit of a chicken and egg problem that we have. But as Alex said, we strongly believe that this will be accelerated in the next five years.

我想補充一點，產品開發商有時在最終投資決定 (FID) 時會採取觀望態度，因為他們想看看這些最終產品的需求。我們相信，航運可以增加需求的可見性，從而可以加速該專案上線的決策。因此，我們面臨的問題有點像是先有雞還是先有蛋的問題。但正如亞歷克斯所說，我們堅信未來五年這一進程將會加速。

And the third question, you must have a lot of pushback on your relatively small float. Will the acquisition of Golden Ocean elevates, for example, more float available for institutions?

第三個問題是，對於相對較小的浮動資金，您肯定會遇到許多阻力。收購 Golden Ocean 是否會增加機構可用的流通股數？

Yes. Short answer is yes. If the merger goes through, our free float will go to 38%.

是的。簡短的回答是肯定的。如果合併成功，我們的自由流通股比例將升至 38%。

So that's an increase from 8% today to a combined company, much bigger, stronger, larger market cap of 38%.

因此，合併後的公司規模將從目前的 8% 成長至 38%，實力更強，市值也更高。

And then one last one, what's the LNG propane, ethane area be of interest to you in the future?

最後一個問題，未來您對液化天然氣丙烷、乙烷領域的哪些方面感興趣？

LNG is not really of interest right now, but other segments could always be of interest. But right now, our focus is on completing the merger with Golden Ocean.

目前，液化天然氣 (LNG) 並不是真正受到關注的領域，但其他領域可能一直都會引起人們的興趣。但目前，我們的重點是完成與 Golden Ocean 的合併。

And I think there to add, we've shown a slide into the Capital Markets Day presentation. The investment parameters that we always take is supply also in demand and specific target assets. And the order book-to-fleet ratio right now on LNG seems pretty high on some of the other sectors as well. But as Alex mentioned, this could change and ones that order book is being absorbed, but as the prices are the right moment, then obviously, we will look at any segment that is out there.

我想補充一下，我們展示了資本市場日簡報的幻燈片。我們始終採取的投資參數是供給、需求和特定的目標資產。目前液化天然氣的訂單量與船隊比率在其他一些領域似乎也相當高。但正如亞歷克斯所提到的，這種情況可能會改變，訂單簿正在被吸收，但由於價格處於合適的時機，那麼顯然，我們會關注那裡的任何部分。

Okay. And I think that concludes the questions.

好的。我想問題就到此結束了。

Very good. So I would like to thank everyone for participating in this call. As we have said before, if you have any further questions, you can always reach out to us. And my colleague, Joris Daman, is in the presentation is there to assist you. Thank you very much, and see you next time.

非常好。因此，我要感謝大家參加這次電話會議。正如我們之前所說，如果您有任何其他問題，您可以隨時與我們聯繫。我的同事 Joris Daman 將在演講中為您提供協助。非常感謝，下次再見。

Bye, bye.

再見，再見。