CMB.TECH NV (CMBT) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to the CMB.TECH earnings release for the second quarter of this year. My name is Alexander Saverys, and I'm joined by my colleagues, Ludovic, Joris, and Enya. We would like to discuss the CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean merger first to start. That is the news of last week. Then we will zoom in on the second quarter financials and highlights, conclude, and have time for some questions and answers.

下午好，歡迎參加 CMB.TECH 今年第二季財報發表會。我叫亞歷山大‧薩維里斯，我的同事們是路德維克、喬里斯和恩雅。我們想先討論一下招商局科技和金海集團的合併事宜。以上是上週的新聞。然後我們將重點放在第二季度的財務數據和亮點，進行總結，並留出時間進行問答環節。

Let me first start with the news of last week. On the 20th of August, we have completed the CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean merger to create a leading diversified maritime group. For those of you who have followed us before, you will recognize this slide, but I do want to take you through the combined Golden Ocean, CMB.TECH fleet. We have today in 206 modern eco vessels on the water with another 44 on order. Of our 250 ships, about one-third will be powered or will be capable to be powered by ammonia and hydrogen. Our contract backlog stands at close to $3 billion, and the average age of our fleet is a tick under six years.

首先，讓我從上週的新聞說起。8月20日，我們完成了CMB.TECH與金海集團的合併，並創建了一個領先的多元化海事集團。對於那些之前關注過我們的人來說，你們會認出這張幻燈片，但我確實想帶你們了解一下 Golden Ocean 和 CMB.TECH 的聯合船隊。目前我們有 206 艘現代化環保船舶在水面上航行，另有 44 艘正在訂購中。在我們擁有的 250 艘船舶中，約有三分之一將以氨和氫為動力，或能夠以氨和氫為動力。我們的合約積壓金額接近 30 億美元，我們船隊的平均年齡略低於 6 年。

The total fair market value of the fleet is close to $11 billion. We have $1.9 billion of CapEx commitments still outstanding. We are listed on NYC in New York, Euronext Brussels, and since last week as well on the Oslo Bors. You can see the detailed breakdown of our fleet at the bottom of the slide with the major change being that Bocimar now has incorporated the fleet of Golden Ocean. We have added 89 vessels to the fleet; our dry bulk division now has 119 ships.

該船隊的總公允市價接近 110 億美元。我們還有19億美元的資本支出承諾尚未兌現。我們在紐約證券交易所 (NYC)、布魯塞爾泛歐交易所上市，並且從上週開始也在奧斯陸證券交易所上市。您可以在幻燈片底部看到我們船隊的詳細分類，其中最大的變化是 Bocimar 現在已將 Golden Ocean 的船隊納入其中。我們為船隊增加了 89 艘船舶；我們的乾散貨部門現在擁有 119 艘船舶。

After the merger with Golden Ocean, we are the largest listed diversified maritime group. You can see the comparison to some of our peers, the pure-play peers and the more diversified peers. We have a market cap of over $2 billion. Our free float is now a significant 38%. And recently, we have had a 3.5 million turnover in shares average daily turnover.

與金海集團合併後，我們成為最大的上市多元化海事集團。您可以查看我們與一些同行、純粹的同行以及更多元化的同行的比較。我們的市值超過20億美元。我們的自由流通股比例目前高達 38%。最近，我們的股票日均成交量達到了 350 萬股。

Looking at our fleet and how it will evolve in the next quarters. We are adding new buildings nearly every month, every week. You can see that today, our fleet stands at 206 ships. End of the quarter -- fourth quarter 2025, we will be at 218 vessels, and we will add another 23 ships next year. So our fleet is growing and growing rapidly.

審視我們的船隊及其在未來幾季的發展趨勢。我們幾乎每個月、每週都在增加新建築。您可以看到，目前我們的船隊共有 206 艘船。到 2025 年第四季末，我們將擁有 218 艘船舶，明年我們將再增加 23 艘。因此，我們的船隊正在不斷壯大，而且發展速度很快。

Translated to available days, this is also an updated sheet after the integration of Golden Ocean into CMB.TECH. You can see that we have about 54,000 days in 2025 and going to 60,000 days next year. And you can also see the detailed breakdown between the different segments. The dry bulk division, Bocimar, has become our largest division.

換算成可用天數，這也是在Golden Ocean併入CMB.TECH後更新的表格。可以看到，到2025年我們大約有54,000個可用天數，明年將達到60,000個。您也可以查看不同部分之間的詳細細分情況。幹散貨部門 Bocimar 已成為我們最大的部門。

And what we are showing on this slide as well is the split between our spot days and time charter days. You can see that in our divisions, containers and chemical tankers, we are very well covered on the time charter side and on dry bulk and tankers, crude oil tankers, we are very much spot-oriented. The reason we're doing that has to do with many things, but primarily on our view on how we see the market in the next 12 to 24 months.

我們在這張投影片上也展示了我們的現貨租船天數和定期租船天數之間的比例。你可以看到，在我們的貨櫃船和化學品船部門，我們在定期租船方面覆蓋非常完善；而在幹散貨船和油輪（原油油輪）方面，我們則非常注重即期租船。我們這樣做的原因有很多，但主要取決於我們對未來 12 至 24 個月市場趨勢的看法。

On the right side of this slide, you can see the order book-to-fleet ratio in segments like dry bulk and tankers, where we see a low order book-to-fleet ratio, we're expecting better rates. We are more spot-oriented in segments where we believe there might be some oversupply in the months and years to come, we have taken more cover on the time charter side.

在這張幻燈片的右側，您可以看到乾散貨和油輪等細分市場的訂單量與船隊規模之比，訂單量與船隊規模之比越低，我們預計運價就越好。我們更傾向於在那些我們認為未來幾個月甚至幾年內可能會出現供應過剩的領域進行現貨交易，而在定期租船方面，我們則採取了更多應對措施。

I would like to hand over to our CFO, Ludovic, to talk a little bit about the financials and starting with the free cash flow of CMB.TECH.

我想把麥克風交給我們的財務長 Ludovic，讓他談談財務狀況，首先從 CMB.TECH 的自由現金流說起。

Yes. Thanks, Alex. This slide is trying to show in connection with the operational strategy of being open on dry bulk and tankers, what's the hypothetical one-year free cash flow could be operationally. This is excluding the remaining CapEx to be paid, excluding the cash received from vessel sales.

是的。謝謝你，亞歷克斯。這張投影片試圖展示，在乾散貨和油輪業務開放的營運策略下，假設一年的營運自由現金流可能是多少。這不包括剩餘待支付的資本支出，也不包括船舶銷售所得的現金。

On the bottom right, we've made some assumptions. This is by no means a pure science, but we have presented three cases where you can see that all throughout the various segments, we would generate in a bear case, a loss of $35 million cash; medium case, $170 million cash; and on the upside, $380 million.

我們在右下角做了一些假設。這絕非一門純粹的科學，但我們已經提出了三個案例，從中可以看出，在各種情況下，熊市情況下我們將損失 3500 萬美元現金；中等情況下，我們將損失 1.7 億美元現金；而上漲情況下，我們將獲得 3.8 億美元收益。

Just to highlight, the bull case, the high case we're showing here is actually the market today. So if the market would continue in the current state with our spot exposure, we would add roughly $380 million of free cash in the next 12 months.

需要強調的是，我們在這裡展示的牛市情景，也就是市場高位情景，其實就是今天的市場。因此，如果市場繼續保持目前的狀況，加上我們的現貨敞口，我們將在未來 12 個月內增加約 3.8 億美元的自由現金流。

Going in through an update of the contract backlog. We have stayed at roughly $2.9 billion compared to last quarter. This is thanks to the additional long-term charters we have received from Golden Ocean primarily on Kamsarmaxes and six Capesizes that they originally had in their fleets.

正在更新合約積壓情況。與上一季相比，我們的營收維持在29億美元左右。這要歸功於我們從 Golden Ocean 獲得的額外長期包租合同，這些合同主要涉及他們船隊中原有的 Kamsarmax 型帆船和六艘好望角型帆船。

Moving then to the financials of Q2. We have ended the quarter of this year with a loss of $7.5 million, which is $7.7 million profit for the old CMB.TECH and a $50 million loss on the Golden Ocean exposure. The liquidity stands at roughly $400 million as of today. The contract backlog we've discussed.

接下來來看第二季的財務數據。本季結束時，我們虧損了 750 萬美元，其中舊的 CMB.TECH 獲利 770 萬美元，而 Golden Ocean 業務虧損 5,000 萬美元。截至今日，流動資金約4億美元。我們討論過的合約積壓問題。

The outstanding CapEx of $1.86 billion, that is from August forward till the end, from which $1.6 billion we have already committed financing and $270 million is unfunded. So when people ask on this big order book, how much will we need to use from operational cash flow or vessel sales, the answer is $270 million, which is broken down $30 million remaining in this year of unfunded equity, $170 million next year, and then $70 million in 2027, '28, and '29.

未償還的資本支出為 18.6 億美元，從 8 月到年底，其中 16 億美元我們已經承諾融資，2.7 億美元尚未獲得資金。因此，當人們問起這筆巨額訂單，我們需要從營運現金流或船舶銷售中動用多少資金時，答案是 2.7 億美元，其中 3000 萬美元是今年剩餘的未註資權益，1.7 億美元是明年，7000 萬美元是 2027 年、2028 年和 2029 年。

If we focus a little bit more on the Q2 figures. On the left side, we show that our figures have indicated a higher revenue, higher OpEx, higher G&A, and also higher depreciation. This is by the mere fact of putting the two companies together.

如果我們更關心一下第二季的數據。左側數據顯示，我們的收入、營運支出、一般及行政費用以及折舊均有所增加。光是將兩家公司合併這一事實就足以帶來這樣的結果。

On the right side, we are indicating that the figures have been impacted by some one-offs. I think there was $22 million on unrealized foreign exchange losses and interest rate swaps. We've had a loss on a sale of the Golden Zhoushan. And then obviously, when we merge, there is cost associated to audit, legal fees, and financial advisories that have brought down the P&L in the second quarter.

右側的數據表明，這些數字受到了一些一次性事件的影響。我認為未實現的匯兌損失和利率互換損失高達 2,200 萬美元。我們出售金舟山號時虧損了。顯然，合併後會產生審計、法律費用和財務諮詢等相關成本，導致第二季損益表下降。

And on the highlights, we've mentioned the loss of $7.6 million and EBITDA of $224 million. We've completed the merger, as Alex mentioned, we are -- the Board has decided to issue a dividend for the Q2 figures of $0.05, which will be payable as soon as practically possible beginning October. The contract backlog we have discussed. We have signed in the combined entity, a new $2 billion facility from which $1.25 billion has been used to refinance the whole fleet of Golden Ocean, and we have $750 million of undrawn revolvers that we can use for repaying some of the other debt.

亮點方面，我們已經提到虧損 760 萬美元，EBITDA 為 2.24 億美元。正如 Alex 所提到的，我們已經完成了合併，董事會已決定派發第二季度股息 0.05 美元，並將於 10 月盡快支付。我們討論過的合約積壓問題。我們已經與合併後的實體簽署了一項新的 20 億美元融資協議，其中 12.5 億美元已用於為 Golden Ocean 的整個船隊進行再融資，我們還有 7.5 億美元的未提取循環信貸額度，可用於償還其他一些債務。

We are listed on three exchanges, which we're pretty proud to be a member of the Oslo Stock Exchange as well. The deliveries of the new buildings have continued unabated. We have five Newcastlemaxes, one CSOV, and two CTVs -- it's actually six Newcastlemaxes, apologies.

我們已在三家交易所上市，我們非常自豪能夠成為奧斯陸證券交易所的成員。新建築的交付工作仍在持續進行中。我們有五輛紐卡斯爾Max、一輛CSOV和兩輛CTV——實際上是六輛紐卡斯爾Max，抱歉。

The VLCC Iris has been sold. The Hakata and Hakone have been delivered to their new owners. I'm happy to report as well that we have sold the Sofia recently, where we will log a capital gain of $20.4 million in the last quarter of this year. And we -- the Golden Ocean team has delivered two Kamsarmaxes and one Capesize to their new owners last quarter and in the next quarter.

VLCC Iris號已售出。博多號和箱根號已交付給新船東。我很高興地報告，我們最近已經賣掉了索菲亞，今年最後一個季度我們將獲得 2,040 萬美元的資本利得。我們－金海團隊在上個季度和下個季度已經向新船東交付了兩艘卡姆薩爾型散裝貨船和一艘好望角型散裝貨船。

This is again what we mentioned where, as [per memory], you can see the P&L breakeven set throughout the divisions and what we have fixed on the quarter-to-date, but Alex will jump in those figures at a later stage.

這和我們之前提到的一樣，根據我的記憶，你可以看到各部門的損益盈虧平衡點，以及我們本季迄今的調整，但 Alex 稍後會補充這些數據。

Thank you very much. I will now zoom in on our Marine division and segment by segment to talk about a market update and what has happened in our various divisions.

非常感謝。接下來，我將重點介紹我們的海洋事業部，並逐一細分市場談談市場最新情況以及我們各部門發生的事情。

Starting with Euronav on the crude oil front. The picture you see here is our very first VLCC being built at Qingdao Beihai shipyard in China. Being launched, we will take delivery of the vessel in November of this year.

首先來看原油領域的 Euronav 公司。您在這裡看到的圖片是我們第一艘超大型油輪（VLCC）正在中國青島北海造船廠建造中。該船下水後，我們將於今年11月接收。

Starting with some highlights, some of which have already been mentioned. Just reminding you that we have 10 VLCCs and 18 Suezmaxes on the water today. We have another five VLCCs on order and two Suezmaxes. The results? Time charter equivalent for the second quarter for our [VLCCs] sat at $45,000. Q3 quarter-to-date, we are at $32,000.

首先是一些重點，其中一些前面已經提到過了。提醒一下，今天我們有 10 艘 VLCC 和 18 艘蘇伊士型油輪在海上作業。我們還有五艘超大型油輪和兩艘蘇伊士型油輪的訂單。結果？第二季我們[VLCC]的定期租船等效價格為45,000美元。第三季至今，我們已達到 32,000 美元。

For the Suezmaxes, the number is 40,000 for Q2, and also 40,000 for Q3 to date. We have sold, as Ludovic just mentioned, four vessels. The Iris Hakata, Hakone has been delivered to the new owners, and the Sofia will deliver in the fourth quarter of this year.

對於蘇伊士型油輪，第二季數量為 40,000 艘，第三季至今數量也為 40,000 艘。正如盧多維克剛才提到的，我們已經售出了四艘船。Iris Hakata, Hakone 已交付給新車主，Sofia 將於今年第四季交付。

You can see our OpEx P&L breakevens on the right side of this slide. We also like to point out to some important indicators for the market. You can see on the right side of the slide that there are some indicators on the demand side that are positive in green, like world oil demand, which is growing slightly supply from OPEC and non-OPEC countries, OECD crude oil stocks, and then definitely the tanker fleet, which definitely in the short term is only going to grow by a very small amount. There are some negatives on US crude oil exports, China oil imports and then the global crude oil floating storage, which are all down.

您可以在本投影片的右側看到我們的營運支出損益損益平衡點。我們也想指出一些重要的市場指標。從幻燈片的右側可以看到，需求方面的一些指標呈現積極態勢（綠色），例如世界石油需求略有增長，歐佩克和非歐佩克國家的供應量、經合組織原油庫存，以及油輪船隊，短期內油輪船隊肯定只會小幅增長。美國原油出口、中國石油進口以及全球原油浮式儲存量都出現下滑，對市場造成了不利影響。

Looking at the mid-term tanker markets. I'd like to talk about the supply of oil and the supply of ships. Starting on this slide with the supply of oil, you have all been following the OPEC+ cuts since 2022. They started off with cutting 2 million barrels per day, then 1.6 million barrels per day. And then the last one was 2.2 million barrels per day.

展望中期油輪市場。我想談談石油供應和船舶供應問題。從這張投影片上的石油供應情況開始，大家從 2022 年開始關注 OPEC+ 的減產措施。他們最初每天減產 200 萬桶，然後減產 160 萬桶。最後一款產品日產量為 220 萬桶。

In recent months, this has been turned around, and we are expecting by October that this voluntary second cut of 2.2 million barrels will be totally reversed. If that happens as per plan, and we are seeing some signs already of increased volumes, this will obviously be positive for the tanker markets, more oil coming out, more oil on VLCCs should support our markets.

近幾個月來，情況發生了轉變，我們預計到 10 月份，這第二次自願減產 220 萬桶的措施將完全取消。如果按計劃進行，而且我們已經看到一些跡象表明產量有所增加，這顯然對油輪市場有利，更多的石油出口，更多的石油通過超大型油輪運輸，應該會支撐我們的市場。

Looking forward to the next couple of years, if we take the IEA forecast, you will see that the gap between supply and demand will be in favor of supply. So there will be more oil, more oil means more storage, more oil should mean also lower prices, which could be very supportive for our tanker markets.

展望未來幾年，如果我們採用國際能源總署的預測，你會發現供需之間的差距將有利於供應。因此，石油供應量將會增加，石油供應量增加意味著儲存空間也會增加，石油供應量增加也意味著油價會下降，這可能對我們的油輪市場起到很大的支撐作用。

If we're looking at the vessel side, so the supply side of the ships, it's becoming a bit of a mixed story, whereas the last two, three years, we didn't see any newbuilding orders for crude oil tankers and the order book was very low. We have seen an uptick in the order book over the last six months, also a little bit last year. And the Suezmax order book to fleet now stands at 19%. The VLCC order book to fleet at 14%.

如果我們從船舶方面來看，也就是船舶的供應方面來看，情況變得有點喜憂參半，而過去兩三年，我們沒有看到任何原油油輪的新造訂單，訂單量非常低。過去六個月，我們的訂單量有所增加，去年也略有成長。蘇伊士型油輪的訂單量與船隊規模比目前為 19%。VLCC訂單量佔船隊規模的14%。

In the short term, we still see that there's very few ships coming to the market. But as from the second half of next year, we will see a pickup and more vessels coming to the market. That contrasts a bit with a more fundamental analysis of the age of the fleet and the scrapping and recycling potential.

短期內，我們仍然看到市場上幾乎沒有新船上市。但從明年下半年開始，我們將看到市場回暖，更多船舶將進入市場。這與對船隊船齡、報廢和回收潛力的更根本的分析略有不同。

When we look at the age of the fleet by 2030, 40% of VLCCs and 40% of existing Suezmaxes will be older than 20 years. So there's a lot of potential to scrap and recycle vessels. So it will be interesting to see in the next couple of months on how the slightly increased order book will match with potential recycling and whether that will be in balance.

到 2030 年，當我們觀察船隊的年齡時，40% 的 VLCC 和 40% 的現有蘇伊士型油輪的船齡將超過 20 年。因此，船舶拆解和回收利用具有很大的潛力。因此，在接下來的幾個月裡，看看略有增加的訂單量與潛在的回收量是否能夠匹配，以及兩者是否能夠達到平衡，將會是一件很有趣的事情。

Of course, we need to talk about dry bulk as well. Bocimar, our dry bulk division has become our biggest division. The picture you see on this slide is not a picture of the ship, but the picture of the very first ammonia engine that will be installed on one of our Newcastlemaxes beginning of next year.

當然，我們還需要談談乾散貨。Bocimar，我們的乾散貨部門，已經成為我們最大的部門。你在這張幻燈片上看到的不是船的照片，而是明年年初將安裝在我們的一艘紐卡斯爾馬克型船上的第一台氨發動機的照片。

So in Bocimar, we've split it for this quarter in two between CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean because it was, of course, a transition quarter. On the CMB.TECH side, we have 17 Super Eco Newcastlemaxes on the water, another 11 that needs to deliver. We achieved time charter equivalent through our fleet of $23,000 net and Q3 TCE to date stands at $28,000 net.

所以，在 Bocimar，我們把本季的股票分成了 CMB.TECH 和 Golden Ocean 兩部分，因為這當然是個過渡季。在 CMB.TECH 方面，我們有 17 艘 Super Eco Newcastlemax 船在水上航行，另有 11 艘需要交付。我們透過船隊實現了 23,000 美元的淨期租收益，截至目前，第三季期租收益為 28,000 美元淨額。

On the Golden Ocean side, we're talking about 89 vessels on the water. It's 18 Nukes, 41 Capes and the rest are Kamsarmaxes and Panamaxes. We achieved in the second quarter for the Newcastlemaxes $18,500 a day. Q3 to date, sits at $23,500. And for the Kamsarmaxes and Panamaxes, the number is $10,500 and $13,500.

在黃金海洋這邊，我們說的是水上共有 89 艘船。其中有 18 艘核動力超音速飛船，41 艘海豹型超音速飛船，其餘的都是卡姆薩爾型超音速飛船和巴拿馬型超音速飛船。第二季度，紐卡斯爾Max型船的日收入達到了18,500美元。第三季至今，金額為 23,500 美元。而對於 Kamsarmax 和 Panamax 來說，價格分別為 10,500 美元和 13,500 美元。

Golden Ocean sold three vessels recently, the Golden Keen and Golden Ionari, as Ludovic said, already were delivered to their new owners, and the Golden Zhoushan will deliver in Q4.

金海集團最近售出了三艘船，正如 Ludovic 所說，「金鋒號」和「金伊奧納裡號」已經交付給了新船東，「金舟山號」將於第四季度交付。

Indicators on dry bulk on the right side of the slide, a lot of green indicators. On the demand side, we see the China steel mill utilization, which is good in inventories have come off tremendously, which is usually a good sign for extra demand. Iron ore inventories are down as well. Iron ore imports, on the other hand, are starting to increase. And then Brazil and Australia, and I'll talk about that in a second, exports on iron ore are also up. The only negative and then specifically for China is that the coal imports are down by 8%. Fleet supply, we are looking at a number of fleet increasing of 2% to 3%.

投影片右側顯示乾散貨指標，有許多綠色指標。在需求方面，我們看到中國鋼鐵廠的開工率很高，庫存大幅下降，這通常是需求增加的好兆頭。鐵礦石庫存也有所下降。另一方面，鐵礦石進口量開始增加。還有巴西和澳大利亞，我稍後會談到這一點，它們的鐵礦石出口也在成長。唯一不利的因素，特別是對中國而言，是煤炭進口量下降了 8%。車隊供應方面，我們預計車隊數量將增加 2% 至 3%。

Looking at the long-term dry bulk market attractiveness. You can see on the supply side, the left side of the slide, that we are way below historical averages in terms of deliveries today but also in the next couple of years. Average age of the fleet is high. We're at close to 12 years. Order book of 9.4% is low.

著眼於乾散貨市場的長期吸引力。從供應方面（幻燈片的左側）可以看出，我們目前的交付量遠低於歷史平均水平，未來幾年也將如此。船隊平均年齡較高。差不多12年了。訂單完成率僅9.4%，偏低。

And when we look at the fleet composition, you see that there are already 113 Capes that are older than 20 years. Another 500 will turn 20 years in five years from now versus 150 Capes on orders. So this is all very supportive. There are some extra elements that are supporting the supply story. One is that 500 Capes need to dry dock in '25, '26 and '27.

當我們查看艦隊組成時，你會發現已經有 113 艘好望角級戰艦的艦齡超過 20 年。五年後，將有 500 名超級英雄年滿 20 歲，目前只有 150 名超級英雄正在接受訓練。所以這一切都非常令人鼓舞。還有一些其他因素佐證了供應方面的說法。一是 500 艘 Cape 級遊艇需要在 2025 年、2026 年和 2027 年進行乾船塢維修。

That's basically on an annualized basis, 2% of capacity that is taken out of the market in these years. And then a recurring theme, the environmental legislation, which is becoming more stringent, will definitely impact Capesize and Newcastlemax speed and availability.

基本上按年計算，每年有 2% 的產能從市場撤出。此外，環境法規日趨嚴格，這無疑會對海岬型船和紐卡斯爾型船的速度和可用性產生影響，這也是一個反覆出現的主題。

When we look at the demand side, we see that iron ore in China domestically, the production is going down, meaning that the Chinese are importing more iron ore. We see extra supply of iron ore coming on stream in areas in Australia, Brazil and of course, Guinea, which we have discussed in previous calls already, with a iron ore price, which is still very much supported. So if we look at that, there is still a positive sentiment for the global mining of iron ore. Adding to the demand side, we have the bauxite story, and I have a slide on that in a second, and also the grain, which are positive and show very healthy growth numbers.

從需求來看，我們發現中國國內鐵礦石產量正在下降，這意味著中國人正在進口更多的鐵礦石。我們看到澳大利亞、巴西以及幾內亞（我們在之前的電話會議中已經討論過）等地的鐵礦石供應量將有所增加，而鐵礦石價格仍然得到很好的支撐。因此，從這個角度來看，全球鐵礦石開採業仍然保持著正面情緒。需求方面，鋁土礦市場也表現良好，我稍後會用幻燈片展示；此外，糧食市場也呈現正面態勢，成長數據非常健康。

Here you see a slide on Brazilian iron ore trade. What we wanted to highlight here is showing that the seasonality with the bad weather, of course, always impacts iron ore exports out of the Atlantic, but now that the bad weather should be behind us, we will see an uptick in iron ore volumes coming out of Brazil. Even with the bad weather, we did see numbers that are at five-year highs. So that's definitely supporting our markets.

這裡展示的是一張關於巴西鐵礦石貿易的幻燈片。我們想強調的是，惡劣天氣的季節性因素當然總是會影響大西洋的鐵礦石出口，但現在惡劣天氣應該已經過去，我們將看到巴西的鐵礦石出口量上升。即使天氣惡劣，我們也看到一些數據達到了五年來的最高水準。所以這無疑對我們的市場起到了支撐作用。

I think same thing can be said on the Pacific iron ore. We have shown some more data on specific producers like BHP and FMG. When we look at what they have already produced and what they have as targets for the year, this should definitely be supportive for our market and has already supported the market in recent months, as you have seen with rates increasing.

我認為太平洋鐵礦石的情況也類似。我們也展示了一些關於特定生產商（如必和必拓和FMG）的更多數據。當我們審視他們已經取得的成就以及他們今年的目標時，這無疑應該對我們的市場起到支撐作用，而且正如你所看到的，近幾個月來利率上升已經對市場起到了支撐作用。

And then on Guinea, I think this will definitely be a team that we will discuss in every quarterly call because we had the bauxite trade which was already very important for the Capesize and Newcastlemax market, and we will add to that hopefully end of this year and definitely next year, all the iron ore volumes coming from Simandou. So also very supportive. And this, as you know, from a ton mile perspective, is definitely supportive for the Capesize story.

至於幾內亞，我認為這絕對是我們每個季度電話會議上都會討論的團隊，因為我們有鋁土礦貿易，這對好望角型和紐卡斯爾型散貨船市場來說已經非常重要，我們希望在今年年底和明年，西芒杜的所有鐵礦石產量都能增加這部分貿易。所以也非常支持我。而從噸英里的角度來看，這無疑對好望角型散裝貨船的發展前景十分有利。

Coal and grain: So negative on coal, positive on grain. You can see that the stock inventories in China are at record highs for the last 5 years. The Chinese are producing more coal domestically, also more coal coming from Mongolia. And so there's less Chinese coal being imported as we speak today. The story globally is a little bit more positive, but overall coal trade, seaborne coal this year will have a contraction.

煤炭和糧食：煤炭為負，糧食為正。你可以看到，中國的庫存量在過去5年中一直處於歷史高點。中國國內煤炭產量增加，來自蒙古的煤炭進口量也增加。因此，目前中國煤炭的進口量正在減少。全球情勢略微樂觀一些，但今年煤炭貿易，特別是海運煤炭貿易，將會出現萎縮。

On the grain trade, we are seeing positive numbers. And even though technically, it does not affect our Capes and Newcastlemaxes directly, it does affect them indirectly through the Kamsarmax and Panamax market, and of course, very important for our Kamsarmaxes and Panamaxes that we have from Golden Ocean.

糧食貿易方面，我們看到了一些正面的數據。雖然從技術上講，它不會直接影響我們的海角型和紐卡斯爾型船，但它會透過卡姆薩爾型和巴拿馬型船市場間接影響它們，當然，這對我們從黃金海洋公司購買的卡姆薩爾型和巴拿馬型船來說非常重要。

I want to move to the Container division. Not a lot to be said on the Container division in terms of the activities of Delphis because, as you know, our fleet is fully fixed. We are waiting for the delivery of one more new building next year in July.

我想調到貨櫃部門。關於 Delphis 的貨櫃部門，沒有什麼可說的，因為正如您所知，我們的船隊是完全固定的。我們正在等待明年七月交付另一棟新大樓。

What I can say about the market is that we see a clear softening trend on the spot freight rates even though the time charter market is still very well supported. What we like a little bit less about the container market is the high order book. But that doesn't mean that we will not look at new projects with some of our close customers because there is still demand for certain sizes, specifically the feeder sizes.

關於市場，我可以說的是，儘管定期租船市場仍然得到很好的支撐，但我們看到現貨運費出現了明顯的疲軟趨勢。我們對貨櫃市場的一點不太滿意之處在於訂單量過大。但這並不意味著我們不會與一些關係密切的客戶探討新的項目，因為市場對某些尺寸的產品，特別是送料器尺寸的產品，仍有需求。

On the chemical tanker side, we have a fleet today of six vessels on the water. We have another two chemical tankers delivering to us in the next couple of weeks and months. And then in 2026, we take delivery of two bitumen tankers. And in '28 and '29, we will take delivery of our ammonia-ready and ammonia-fitted chemical tankers with our long-term time charges.

在化學品油輪方面，我們目前有六艘船舶在水上運作。接下來幾週或幾個月內，我們將有另外兩艘化學品油輪向我們運送貨物。然後在 2026 年，我們將接收兩艘瀝青罐車。2028 年和 2029 年，我們將接收已做好氨氣準備並已安裝氨氣的化學品油輪，並支付長期租賃費用。

As you know, most of our chemical tankers are fixed long term. We have only two ships that are operating on the spot market through the pool. And you can see the results in the pool in the second quarter were very satisfactory. We were at $22,000.

如您所知，我們的大部分化學品油輪都是長期固定租約。我們只有兩艘船透過資金池在現貨市場上運作。你可以看到第二季的泳池比賽結果非常令人滿意。我們當時有22000美元。

The number you see for the third quarter was for the month of July. But meanwhile, rates have been ticking up a little bit higher, so we're expecting Q3 to come in higher than that number. The big element on the chemical tanker markets will be what the MRs will do and how the MR and chemical tanker markets will relate to each other.

您看到的第三季數字是七月的數據。但與此同時，利率一直在小幅上漲，因此我們預計第三季的數據會高於這個數字。化學品油輪市場面臨的最大挑戰將是MR型船舶的發展方向，以及MR型船舶市場與化學品油輪市場之間的關係。

Ending with our offshore wind division and Windcat, you see a beautiful picture of our Windcat Rotterdam. For some of you who are dialing in here in Singapore, yesterday, we have officially introduced and presented the Wildcat Rotterdam to the broader public. That is our very first CSOV on the water, with another five to come.

最後，讓我們來看看我們的離岸風電部門和 Windcat，這裡有一張我們 Windcat Rotterdam 的美麗照片。對於一些在新加坡撥入電話的觀眾，昨天我們正式向廣大民眾介紹了 Wildcat Rotterdam。這是我們首次在水上進行CSOV作業，未來還將有五艘。

Activities in Windcat, we have 56 CTVs on the water, another seven are on order. Our CSOVs as I just said, we have one delivered and five that are coming.

在 Windcat 的活動中，我們有 56 艘 CTV 在水上航行，另有 7 艘正在訂購中。正如我剛才所說，在我們的 CSOV 中，我們已經交付了一個，還有五個正在運送途中。

We see the market on offshore wind, oil and gas as healthy. We haven't seen the typical decline towards the end of the summer. The market is still very much okay as we speak. Our utilizations were very good. And you can see the numbers that we have achieved both on time charters and what our breakeven rates are.

我們認為離岸風電、石油和天然氣市場發展良好。我們沒有看到夏季末期通常出現的下滑趨勢。目前市場狀況依然良好。我們的資源利用率非常高。您可以看到我們在定期租船方面取得的成績以及我們的損益平衡費率。

On the CSOVs, we are seeing interest both from offshore wind projects, but also of oil and gas projects that need good and modern vessels to support their operations, and we are expecting these trends to continue in the following months.

在海上海上作業船方面，我們看到離岸風電項目以及需要良好且現代化的船舶來支持其運營的石油和天然氣項目都對此表現出了興趣，我們預計這些趨勢將在接下來的幾個月裡繼續下去。

This is a summary. We are positive on tankers and dry bulk. This is also where our biggest spot exposure stands. We are cautious that has not changed compared to the last quarter on containers and chemicals. That does not mean that we will not look at projects, but we will make sure that these projects then are secured with time charters.

這是摘要。我們看好油輪和乾散貨運輸業務。這也是我們最大的廣告曝光地點。我們謹慎地認為，與上一季相比，容器和化學品方面的情況並沒有改變。這並不意味著我們不會考慮項目，但我們會確保這些項目透過定期租船合約得到保障。

And then on offshore wind, we are still very positive. There's still a lot of capacity being built. We see healthy demand in that market.

對於離岸風電，我們依然非常樂觀。目前仍有許多產能正在建設中。我們看到該市場需求旺盛。

To conclude, we discussed our numbers. Our loss in the second quarter, the blended loss between CMB.TECH and Golden Ocean was $7.6 million. Very important and very happy and satisfied that we could complete the Golden Ocean merger last week. We have all three listings. So very happy that we now have more and more reason to go to Oslo, and we have declared an interim dividend of $0.05.

最後，我們討論了一下各項數據。第二季度，CMB.TECH 和 Golden Ocean 的綜合虧損為 760 萬美元。上週我們完成了對 Golden Ocean 的合併，這非常重要，我也非常高興和滿意。我們有這三套房源。非常高興我們現在有越來越多的理由去奧斯陸，我們宣布派發每股 0.05 美元的中期股息。

Our portfolio stands, as you know, with our contract backlog, with our modern fleet, and very important with our decarbonization optionality, providing additional upside potential for our earnings. Looking ahead, we are positive for tankers and dry. We have our long-term contracts and future-proof tonnage that is gaining further traction.

如您所知，我們的投資組合擁有充足的合約儲備、現代化的船隊，以及非常重要的脫碳選擇權，為我們的利潤提供了額外的成長潛力。展望未來，我們看好油輪和乾散貨市場。我們擁有長期合約和麵向未來的運力，而這種運力正在不斷增長。

And then on the chemical and container markets, as you know, we have covered most of our exposure. We've added a slide with our newbuild delivery fleet list, 44 or 45 vessels with all the delivery dates. You can go through that at your leisure, but it's still a significant fleet to be delivered in the following quarters.

至於化學品和容器市場，如您所知，我們已經涵蓋了大部分風險敞口。我們新增了一張幻燈片，列出了我們的新造船交付船隊清單，共 44 或 45 艘船舶，並附有所有交付日期。您可以慢慢查看，但接下來幾個季度仍將交付相當數量的貨物。

And with that, I would like to end this part and hand it over to Enya for the Q&A.

至此，本部分就到此結束，接下來交給恩雅進行問答環節。

(Event Instructions) Even Kolsgaard

（活動說明）埃文·科爾斯加德

So Even Kolsgaard, Clarksons Securities. So starting with the dividend, I think some was quite surprised that you're reinitiating dividends. So how should we interpret that dividend payment? Is it primarily intended to satisfy the Gold Ocean shareholders? Or is it something that we could see more of in the next coming quarters, like a recurring dividend of $0.05 per share?

所以，連 Kolsgaard 和 Clarksons Securities 也參與其中。首先說說分紅，我認為有些人對你們重新開始分紅感到非常驚訝。那我們該如何解讀這筆股利支付呢？主要目的是為了滿足黃金海洋股東的需求嗎？或者，我們是否會在接下來的幾季看到更多類似的事情，例如每股 0.05 美元的定期股息？

Thanks, Even. I'll take that question, Alex. I think this is -- the Board has decided that we wanted to pay the dividends. We will do that every quarter, analyze basically our balance sheets, our P&L, our cash flow needs, and then decide how we can reward our shareholders or also continue to invest in new buildings or other opportunities.

謝謝你，伊文。這個問題我來回答，亞歷克斯。我認為這是——董事會已經決定我們要支付股息。我們將每個季度都這樣做，主要分析我們的資產負債表、損益表、現金流量需求，然後決定如何回報股東，或繼續投資新建築或其他機會。

So it is not that we have now a fixed $0.05 payout initiated. We have a full discretionary policy. But as previously said on earnings calls, we like dividends. We have paid them quite a lot in the previous quarters. And now we believe after the merger that we can pay this $0.05 dividend for the Q2 results.

所以，並不是說我們現在就啟動了固定的 0.05 美元派息。我們實行完全酌情處理政策。但正如之前在財報電話會議上所說，我們喜歡分紅。前幾季我們已經支付了他們相當多的款項。現在我們相信，合併完成後，我們可以支付第二季業績對應的每股 0.05 美元股息。

Okay. Thanks. And over to more of a strategic question. So you've finished the Golden Ocean merger, so what do you think will be a focus for the company in the next few quarters because you've gotten a large tanker fleet and a dry bulk fleet? Are there other -- any of the other segments that you are looking to do some things about? Or is it just business as usual, selling assets and ordering new ones if you find great opportunities?

好的。謝謝。接下來我們來討論一個更具策略性的問題。既然你們已經完成了對 Golden Ocean 的合併，那麼你們認為公司在接下來的幾個季度會重點關注什麼呢？因為你們已經擁有了一支龐大的油輪船隊和一支乾散貨船隊。您是否還希望在其他方面採取一些措施？或者，一切照舊，出售資產，如果發現好機會就訂購新資產？

Well, it's going to be, indeed, business as usual. We have five divisions that we like a lot. If we see opportunities in the five divisions, we will take them. Of course, the focus will also be to integrate this fleet properly. A lot of work needs to be done now operationally, technically, making sure that all our platforms can be put together.

嗯，一切照舊。我們非常喜歡五個部門。如果我們在五個分區中看到機會，我們就會抓住它們。當然，重點也將放在如何妥善整合這支艦隊。現在在營運和技術方面有很多工作要做，確保我們所有的平台都能整合在一起。

But, Even, with the size that we have, and the scope that we have, if there are any good large opportunities that we see, we will definitely investigate it.

但是，即便以我們目前的規模和範圍，如果發現任何好的、大的機會，我們一定會進行調查。

Okay. Thank you. That's all from me.

好的。謝謝。我的內容就這些了。

Kristof Samoy.

克里斯托夫·薩莫伊。

Yeah. Good afternoon. Kristof Samoy, KBC Securities. Thank you for taking my questions. Maybe first for Ludovic. Is there something you can share, some more detail you can share regarding the timing of the ongoing refinancing post-merger with Golden Ocean? Any insights there you could share regarding the target LTVs and potential change in covenant structure?

是的。午安.Kristof Samoy，KBC 證券公司。謝謝您回答我的問題。或許對路德維克來說，這是第一個。您能否分享一些信息，或者提供一些關於與 Golden Ocean 合併後正在進行的再融資的時間表方面的更多細節？關於目標貸款價值比 (LTV) 和契約結構的潛在變化，您能否分享一些見解？

And then second question, maybe for Alexander. What's your take? How do you gauge the US presidential action against the expected stricter greenhouse gas rules of the IMO? And do you see already impacts on your pipeline for potential long-term charter conclusions, in particular for dry bulk?

第二個問題，或許可以問問亞歷山大。你的看法是什麼？您如何看待美國總統採取的行動與國際海事組織預期中更嚴格的溫室氣體排放規則之間的關係？您是否已經看到這些影響將對您的長期租船合約產生影響，特別是對於乾散貨而言？

And then finally, on SG&A, could you give like a normal quarterly run rate, excluding the deal and merger fees going forward for the proforma group? Thank you.

最後，關於銷售、一般及行政費用 (SG&A)，您能否提供一個正常的季度運作率，不包括未來合併和交易費用，針對的是備考集團？謝謝。

Yeah. Great. Thanks, Kristof. I'll start with the refinancing. So we have refinanced the whole Golden Ocean fleet.

是的。偉大的。謝謝你，克里斯托夫。我先從再融資說起。因此，我們對整個黃金海洋船隊進行了再融資。

We had refinanced the former tanker fleet when we did the last M&A on the Euronav. All the newbuilding files and the modern vessels, we have roughly 8 to 10 facilities on bilateral or club deals, smaller sizes. So all of these have been concluded. And as I mentioned, on the remaining CapEx of the $1.86 billion actually $1.6 billion has been signed or is being implemented on the ships. So the heavy lifting on the financing and the refinancing of our fleet has been done. So that is good.

我們在對 Euronav 進行上次併購時，已經對先前的油輪船隊進行了再融資。所有新造船項目和現代船舶，我們大約有 8 到 10 個項目是透過雙邊或俱樂部協議進行的，規模較小。所有這些事情都已結束。正如我之前提到的，在剩餘的 18.6 億美元資本支出中，實際上有 16 億美元已經簽署或正在船舶上實施。因此，我們車隊的融資和再融資方面的重頭戲已經完成了。那很好。

We have aligned a new set of covenants together with our banks, where we are stepping away from the book equity on total assets, which was a relatively sharp as you've seen in the last earnings releases to a value adjusted equity. So that has been implemented already throughout all the facilities, except for the Norwegian bonds for the moment. That is on the financing, so we're all set there.

我們與銀行共同製定了一套新的契約，從按總資產計算帳面權益（正如您在最近的收益報告中看到的那樣，這種做法相對激進），轉向按價值調整後的權益。目前，除挪威債券外，所有設施都已實施了該措施。那是融資方面的問題，所以我們這方面已經沒問題了。

On the SG&A, just to pick up on the last question you asked to Alexander. Obviously, our SG&A has grown by the growth of the sheer size of the company. But there is obviously some exceptional costs that we have had with the prolonged M&A activity in the last 3 years due to legal fees, financial advisory fees, refinancing fees as well play in there.

關於銷售、管理及行政費用，我只是想接續你上次問亞歷山大的問題。顯然，我們的銷售、管理及行政費用隨著公司規模的擴大而成長。但很顯然，過去三年持續的併購活動也帶來了一些特殊的成本，例如法律費用、財務顧問費用、再融資費用等等。

To give an actual run rate, the only sensible question -- answer I can give is going to be lower than what we see today in the second quarter. But as Alex mentioned, let's take the time now in the next six months to put all the platforms together, not just run them operationally to -- as a well platform, sorry, but also see where we can optimize the costs on SG&A.

要給出實際的運行率，唯一合理的答案是——第二季度的運行率會低於我們今天看到的水平。但正如 Alex 所提到的，讓我們在接下來的六個月裡，把所有平台整合起來，不僅要運營它們，作為一個完善的平台，抱歉，還要看看我們可以在哪裡優化銷售、一般及行政費用。

And then on President Trump, thank you very much, Kristof, for asking easy questions. Look, you read in the press, what I read is that apparently, US interests will try to pressure people to vote against what we call the IMO 2028 regulations of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It is very, very difficult to analyze today or to say something sensible about what the impact is going to be in October because this is, of course, a political game. But there's more than 170 countries that can vote in the IMO.

然後，關於川普總統，非常感謝克里斯托夫，你問的問題很簡單。你看，你在報紙上讀到的，我看到的是，顯然，美國利益團體會試圖向人們施壓，讓他們投票反對我們所謂的IMO 2028減少溫室氣體排放的規定。現在很難分析局勢，也很難對十月的影響做出合理的預測，因為這當然是一場政治遊戲。但國際海事組織有超過 170 個國家可以投票。

Last time around, it was voted with a small group of countries because a lot of people were -- did not attend the vote. This time, they all need to attend. The juries out. It could go both ways. But I would not interpret the resistance by the US as it is not going to go through.

上次投票時，只有少數國家參與，因為很多人——沒有參加投票。這次他們都必須參加。尚未有定論。結果可能朝兩個方向發展。但我認為美國的抵制並不代表這項計畫不會成功。

There's a lot of different interests at play in the IMO. So we still think there's a very good chance that this regulation will indeed pass, but we'll know beginning October, whether it did or did not.

國際奧委會內部有很多不同的利益在運作。所以我們仍然認為這項法規很有可能會獲得通過，但從 10 月開始，我們就會知道結果如何。

Impact on our customers. I have to say that people that we are talking to about ammonia and hydrogen powered ships, have not changed their view since President Trump came out in opposition of the IMO regulations. So that has not changed.

對我們的客戶的影響。我必須說，自從川普總統公開反對國際海事組織（IMO）的規定以來，我們與那些討論氨和氫動力船舶的人交流後，他們的觀點並沒有改變。所以這一點並沒有改變。

It would actually be the opposite where IMO will go through in October, this will be a catalyst for us to have renewed and higher interest for long-term charging opportunities.

實際上情況恰恰相反，IMO 將於 10 月進行改革，這將促​​使我們對長期充電機會產生重新和更高的興趣。

Okay. Thank you. No further questions.

好的。謝謝。沒有其他問題了。

[Kimo Molez].

[Kimo Molez]

Hi, good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions. Following up on Even's question, I also wanted to ask a bit about your fleet composition. Golden Ocean had a generally modern fleet, but the merger has also added some middle age Panamaxes and Capesizes. Could you talk a bit about your stance towards those vessels as well as to the older tankers already in your fleet? Should we expect the sale of a significant number of those assets over the coming quarters?

您好，下午好，感謝您回答我的問題。關於 Even 的問題，我也想問一下你們的艦隊組成狀況。金海航運公司原本擁有一支較為現代化的船隊，但合併後也增加了一些老舊的巴拿馬型和好望角型船舶。您能否談談您對這些船舶以及您船隊中已有的舊油輪的立場？我們是否可以預期在未來幾季內出售大量此類資產？

Well, as you know, we want to operate a modern fleet. So fleet rejuvenation will always be part of our strategy. If we see a good price for an older vessel, we will sell it. If we see interesting new building opportunities, we will go for it. If we see good modern secondhand tonnage, we will go for it as well.

如您所知，我們希望經營一支現代化的機隊。因此，艦隊更新將始終是我們策略的一部分。如果舊船價格合適，我們就會賣掉它。如果我們發現有前景的新建築項目，我們會抓住機會。如果我們看到狀況良好的現代化二手船，我們也會考慮購買。

The thing I always say, when we talk about this, this will not be done at any cost at any time. We will look at the price. We will look at where we are in the cycle. We will look at the counterparts.

我總是說，當我們談到這件事時，無論付出什麼代價，無論何時，這件事都不會發生。我們會考慮價格。我們將看看我們目前處於週期的哪個階段。我們將考察一下對應物。

You saw that we just recently sold the Suezmax of 15 years old at $40 million. That is, for us, a very sound deal to do because it rejuvenates our fleet, but we're also getting a very interesting amount of money for that vessel. In short, Clement, if I can say, we like to operate a modern fleet. The older vessels in the Golden Ocean fleet could be for sale, but not at any price, and we are not going to set a target or a timeline on that.

您也看到了，我們最近以 4000 萬美元的價格售出了一艘船齡 15 年的蘇伊士型柴油動力船。對我們來說，這是一筆非常划算的交易，因為它使我們的船隊煥然一新，而且我們還能從這艘船上獲得一筆非常可觀的資金。簡而言之，克萊門特，如果我沒說錯的話，我們喜歡經營一支現代化的車隊。金海船隊中的老舊船隻可能會出售，但並非不計成本，我們也不會為此設定目標或時間表。

Makes sense. Thanks for the color. And I also wanted to ask about the contract you signed with Fortescue for ammonia-powered Newcastlemax. Should we expect the vessel to burn ammonia since the get-go? To what extent is the infrastructure for bunkering already there?

有道理。謝謝你提供的色彩。我還想問問您與 Fortescue 簽訂的關於使用氨氣的 Newcastlemax 的合約。我們是否應該預期船隻從一開始就會燃燒氨氣？目前用於船舶燃料補給的基礎設施已經發展到什麼程度？

That's a question which I cannot answer right now. We are working very hard to make sure that we can bunker the first vessels that are coming out of the yard. As soon as we have news on that, we will make that public. But it is our aim to have that ship powered by ammonia. It's also FMG's or Fortescue's aim to have the vessel powered by ammonia.

這個問題我現在無法回答。我們正在努力確保能夠為第一批從船廠下水的船舶加註燃料。一旦有相關消息，我們會立即公佈。但我們的目標是讓這艘船使用氨氣作為動力。FMG 或 Fortescue 的目標也是讓這艘船使用氨作為動力。

A lot will depend whether the molecules will be available and whether the bunkering operation can work. We think it can, but it's a little bit too early to confirm that already set in stone today.

許多因素取決於這些分子是否可用以及加註作業能否成功。我們認為有可能，但現在就斷言此事已成定局還為時過早。

Axel Styrman.

阿克塞爾·施蒂爾曼。

Axel Styrman from Kepler Cheuvreux. I have two questions. Regarding the growth in the iron ore volumes from Africa, in particular, during '26 and '27. Do you expect these volumes to replace existing volumes? And if so, from where?

來自 Kepler Cheuvreux 的 Axel Styrman。我有兩個問題。關於非洲鐵礦石產量的成長，特別是 2026 年和 2027 年的成長。您預計這些卷冊會取代現有捲冊嗎？如果屬實，那麼是從哪裡來的？

Second question relates to potential share buybacks, given that the stock is trading at a significant discount to the net asset value. Is this something you would consider?

第二個問題與潛在的股票回購有關，因為該股票的交易價格遠低於其淨資產值。你會考慮這樣做嗎？

Okay. I'll take your first question, and I'll hand it over to Ludovic for the second one. So do we think the iron ore volumes will replace other volumes? The answer: if the market is not good, probably yes. If the market is supportive, I think all the volumes that we have sketched in our presentation can live next to one another.

好的。我來回答你的第一個問題，第二個問題交給盧多維克。那我們認為鐵礦石產量會取代其他礦石產量嗎？答案是：如果市場行情不好，那很可能是。如果市場表現良好，我認為我們在簡報中提到的所有交易量都可以並存。

So the price of iron ore will be an interesting element to follow, whether the Guinea volumes will push out, for instance, Brazilian volumes or will compete with Australian volumes. So far, what we are expecting, and it's not only us, but also the analysts that this will be a net positive for our market.

因此，鐵礦石價格將是一個值得關注的因素，例如幾內亞的產量是否會擠佔巴西的產量，或者是否會與澳洲的產量競爭。目前來看，我們（不只是我們，分析師）都認為這將對我們的市場產生正面影響。

Yes. And on the share buyback question, Axel, share buybacks are one tool to reward shareholders and are a different way of distribution. However, we have to say in every big merger, there is a natural rotation of capital, where you had maybe previous Golden Ocean shareholders, previous CMB.TECH shareholders that take a position and rotate their share register. So we will always analyze this.

是的。至於股票回購問題，Axel，股票回購是獎勵股東的手段，也是不同的分配方式。然而，我們必須指出，在每一次大型併購中，都會出現自然的資本輪換，之前金海集團的股東、招商局科技的股東可能會入股並輪換他們的股份。所以我們會一直分析這個問題。

But for us, the most important is that we have closed the merger. We have given certainty to all our shareholders now of the way to go. And we will let now a couple of quarters, let the numbers do the talking. See what operational leverage that we have as a company, how we can integrate all the fleets, enjoy the positioning that we have on the tanker and dry bulk markets. And then like always, value will start floating up, but share buyback is always one of the possibilities.

但對我們來說，最重要的是我們已經完成了合併。現在我們已經向所有股東明確了未來的發展方向。接下來幾個季度，我們就讓數據說話。看看我們公司擁有怎樣的營運優勢，如何整合所有船隊，享受我們在油輪和乾散貨市場上的地位。然後，像往常一樣，股價會開始上漲，但股票回購始終是其中一種可能性。

Daniela De Lorenzo.

丹妮拉·德·洛倫佐。

Daniela De Lorenzo, from ShippingWatch. Happy to see you coming to Oslo the next time. I had a question in regard of the shadow fleets in relation to the slide on the midterm tanker markets. I just wanted to know how do you factor the shadow fleet when it comes to the scrapping, what do you think is going to be the results on the supply side demand -- and demand. Thank you.

來自 ShippingWatch 的 Daniela De Lorenzo。期待您下次來奧斯陸。我有一個關於影子船隊的問題，這個問題與中期油輪市場圖表有關。我只是想知道在報廢船隻時，您是如何考慮影子艦隊的，您認為這對供應方和需求方會產生什麼結果？謝謝。

Thanks, Daniela. The short answer is we would like to see this shadow fleet disappear from the market as soon as possible. First, they are involved in an illegal trade. Second, they are very old and questions can be asked about the maintenance and the insurance of these vessels. So clearly, the sooner this shadow fleet disappears from the market, the better for us. But we have to be realistic.

謝謝你，丹妮拉。簡而言之，我們希望這支影子艦隊能盡快從市場上消失。首先，他們參與了非法交易。其次，這些船隻年代久遠，其維修和保險情況可能會受到質疑。所以很明顯，這支影子艦隊越早從市場上消失，對我們就越有利。但我們必須面對現實。

We know about the shadow fleet since many, many years, even before the Russia-Ukraine war. You see that it is very difficult to push these ships out of our market. They are there. They have actually, over the last couple of years, cannibalized the white market or the official market. And so I think it would be naive to think that these ships will disappear overnight.

我們早在俄烏戰爭之前就了解這支影子艦隊。你看，要把這些船趕出我們的市場是非常困難的。它們就在那裡。實際上，在過去幾年裡，他們已經蠶食了白市或官方市場。所以，認為這些船隻會在一夜之間消失的想法未免太天真了。

One thing which is working to our advantage, I would say, is that these ships have been under sanctions now for a very long time and will become increasingly more difficult to operate just because of out of maintenance reasons, insurance reasons, and breakdowns that will eventually happen. Are we counting on it? No. Are we hoping for them to disappear quickly? Yes.

對我們有利的一點是，這些船隻已經受到製裁很長時間了，由於維護、保險和最終會發生的故障等原因，它們的運作將變得越來越困難。我們指望它嗎？不。我們是不是希望它們能盡快消失？是的。

I hope that answers your question.

希望我的回答能解答你的疑問。

I don't see any hands at the moment.

目前我沒看到任何人舉手。

Okay. Well, then this closes our call. Thank you very much for joining us. And if you have any questions, you can reach out to us and to my colleague Joris Daman. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

好的。好了，那我們的通話就到此結束了。非常感謝您的參與。如果您有任何疑問，可以聯絡我們或我的同事 Joris Daman。非常感謝。再見。