CMB.TECH NV (CMBT) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon and welcome to the CMB.TECH's earnings conference call for the third quarter of 2025. My name is Alexander Saverys, and I'm joined by my colleagues, Ludovic Saverys, Enya Derkinderen and Joris Daman. We have the usual topics we want to discuss with you today, starting with our financials and the highlights of the quarter. We will then move to the Marine division market update, and we will close with the conclusion and Q&A.

下午好，歡迎參加 CMB.TECH 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。我的名字是 Alexander Saverys，我的同事們是 Ludovic Saverys、Enya Derkinderen 和 Joris Daman。今天我們想和大家討論一些常規話題，首先是我們的財務狀況和本季的亮點。接下來我們將介紹海洋事業部市場最新情況，最後進行總結與問答環節。

I would like to start with the financial highlights and will therefore hand over to our CFO, Ludovic.

我想先從財務亮點說起，因此接下來請我們的財務長盧多維克發言。

Thanks, Alex. If you move to the next slide, this is the typical overview of our company now post Golden Zhoushan merger. We have roughly $11 billion worth of assets on the water and being constructed over 250 ships. And we'll go further towards the metrics at a later time in the slide deck. But if you move to the next slide, Alex, you'll see that we finished the quarter with a result of roughly $17 million of net profit. Our EBITDA stood at $238 million, where we end the quarter with ample liquidity. We have more than $555 million worth of liquidity in the company.

謝謝你，亞歷克斯。如果您切換到下一張投影片，這將是我們公司在合併金舟山之後的典型概覽。我們在水上擁有價值約 110 億美元的資產，並在建船舶超過 250 艘。我們將在投影片的後續部分進一步探討這些指標。但如果你翻到下一張投影片，Alex，你會看到我們本季最終實現了約 1700 萬美元的淨利潤。我們的 EBITDA 為 2.38 億美元，季末我們有充足的流動資金。公司擁有超過5.55億美元的流動資金。

The contract backlog stayed the same, which means that we added a little bit compared to the natural attrition we have quarter-on-quarter. The CapEx right now sits at $1.6 billion and our equity on total assets, book equity for the bond covenants still sits below -- above the 30.4%.

合約積壓量保持不變，這意味著與季度間的自然損耗相比，我們增加了一些。目前資本支出為 16 億美元，而我們總資產的權益，債券契約的帳面權益仍低於—高於 30.4%。

We had a pretty active quarter, obviously, apart from finishing the merger with Golden Zhoushan, but the Board has decided to declare an interim dividend of $0.05 per share, which is going to be payable early January. Our CapEx program is now fully funded. Happy to say that we have signed all new loan agreements on the remaining CapEx and the equity component has been covered by own liquidity and sale of assets.

除了完成與金舟山的合併之外，我們顯然度過了一個相當活躍的季度，但董事會已決定宣布派發每股 0.05 美元的中期股息，將於 1 月初支付。我們的資本支出計劃現已獲得全額資金。很高興地宣布，我們已經簽署了剩餘資本支出的所有新貸款協議，股權部分已透過自有流動資金和資產出售得到彌補。

Contract backlog mentioned still hovering around $3 billion, but we definitely took a big step forward again in our rejuvenation of the fleet where we took delivery of 7 newbuild vessels, which have been announced in our trading update. We delivered two ships in Q3.

合約積壓仍然徘徊在 30 億美元左右，但我們在船隊更新方面肯定又向前邁出了一大步，我們接收了 7 艘新造船，這些已在我們的交易更新中宣布。第三季我們交付了兩艘船。

But more importantly, we will generate another capital gain of roughly $50 million on the delivery of the VLCC Dalma, the Capesize Battersea and Zhoushan and the Suezmax Sofia in Q4. And on top of that, we just announced the order of a multipurpose accommodation service vessel, which is similar to our CSOV, but in a bigger format, but Alex will discuss that at a later stage.

但更重要的是，在第四季度交付 VLCC Dalma、Capesize Battersea 和 Zhoushan 以及 Suezmax Sofia 時，我們將獲得約 5,000 萬美元的額外資本利得。此外，我們剛剛宣布訂購了一艘多用途住宿服務船，它與我們的 CSOV 類似，但尺寸更大，不過 Alex 將在稍後階段討論這個問題。

Moving towards the coming quarters. We're quite excited with the timing acquisition of Golden Zhoushan, a big increase in spot exposure on dry bulk, which is happening at the right moment. It's playing out well. We have 55,000 shipping days in '26 from which roughly 47,000 is spot. With a big focus on large tankers and large dry bulk, we're perfectly positioned to enjoy the good markets that we have today.

展望未來幾季。我們對收購金舟山的時機感到非常興奮，這將大大增加我們在乾散貨現貨交易中的份額，而現在正是收購的合適時機。一切進展順利。2026 年我們有 55,000 個出貨日，其中約 47,000 個是現貨。我們主要專注於大型油輪和大型乾散貨運輸，因此我們完全有能力享受當前良好的市場環境。

Moving to the next slide. Here, we've made a simple assumption. If the market today would continue going forward, we would show what the free cash flow capacity is at current rates. This is a pure assumption, but you could see that at today's rates, we would add another $600 million of liquidity over a year, on top of the $420 million that we anticipate to pay back on the bonds and on the bridge financing.

進入下一張投影片。這裡，我們做了一個簡單的假設。如果今天的市場狀況能夠持續下去，我們將展示以當前利率計算的自由現金流能力。這純粹是一種假設，但你可以看到，以今天的利率計算，除了預計償還債券和過橋融資的 4.2 億美元之外，我們還將在一年內增加 6 億美元的流動性。

Happy to say, by the way, that we'll reduce the bridge by another $300 million by end of this quarter. But this slide shows that with the spot exposure and the good market we have, we can generate meaningful free cash flow growing the operational leverage of the company. And if people sometimes don't like to spread out over a year, you can easily filter this into quarter-by-quarter. And this would mean at today's market that we would add $250 million free cash flow per quarter, which is, I think, is a pretty strong sign of our operational leverage.

順便一提，很高興地告訴大家，到本季末，我們將再把這座橋的成本降低 3 億美元。但這張投影片顯示，憑藉現貨市場和良好的市場狀況，我們可以產生可觀的自由現金流，進而提高公司的營運槓桿。如果人們有時不喜歡把時間分散到一年中，你可以輕鬆地將其按季度進行篩選。這意味著在今天的市場環境下，我們將每季增加 2.5 億美元的自由現金流，我認為這充分證明了我們的營運槓桿作用。

I'll move the floor back to Alex on the various marine divisions we have.

接下來，我會把話題交還給 Alex，讓他談談我們各個海軍陸戰隊部門的狀況。

Yes. Thank you, Ludovic. I want to take you through our five divisions and the markets in which they operate and what has happened in Q3 and is happening right now in Q4. You can see our usual slide with the five main markets we operate in, the tankers, dry bulk, containers, chemicals and the offshore markets.

是的。謝謝你，路德維克。我想帶大家了解我們的五個部門以及它們所處的市場，以及第三季和第四季正在發生的事情。您可以看到我們通常的幻燈片，上面列出了我們運營的五個主要市場：油輪、乾散貨、貨櫃、化學品和海上市場。

You see that we are still positive on tankers, positive on dry bulk, positive on the offshore market. We are cautious since a couple of quarters already on containers and on chemicals. And that has to do with the fundamental supply-demand numbers.

您可以看到，我們仍然看好油輪、乾散貨和海上市場。由於過去幾個季度以來貨櫃和化學品方面都出現了問題，所以我們一直很謹慎。這與基本的供需數據有關。

If I start with the divisions where we're a little bit more cautious, containers and chemicals, you can see the demand numbers for 2025 in containers were positive, but are expected to be quite flat or even down a little bit in 2026, combined by a huge order book in containers, 32% and the fact that we are expecting gradual unwinding of the rerouting away from the Red Sea, so that ships would go through the Red Sea again, which represents today between 10% and 12% in ton miles. We think container markets will have a difficult time next year and probably also the year thereafter.

如果我先從我們比較謹慎的部門——貨櫃和化學品——說起，你可以看到2025年貨櫃的需求量是積極的，但預計2026年將相當平穩甚至略有下降，這主要是由於貨櫃訂單量巨大（32%），以及我們預計2026年將相當平穩甚至略有下降，這主要是由於貨櫃訂單量巨大（32%），以及我們預計開紅海的航線將逐漸增加105%我們認為，明年貨櫃市場將面臨困境，而且可能後年也會如此。

Same can be said for chemical tankers, be it to a lesser extent. Supply-demand is a little bit overweight in terms of the number of ships coming on stream. So we're also a little bit cautious on the chemical tankers. As you know, our two divisions Delphis and Bochem are mainly covered by time charters and have very little spot exposure.

化學品油輪的情況也類似，儘管程度較輕。就新投入營運的船舶數量而言，供需關係略微過載。所以我們對化學品油輪也有些謹慎。如您所知，我們的兩個部門 Delphis 和 Bochem 主要依靠定期租船業務，現貨業務敞口很小。

If we turn to the other segments, starting with dry bulk, which is by far our biggest exposure today. We see that there was an increase in tonne-mile demand growth for Capesizes this year of 0.8%. So not very meaningful, but still positive, expected to ramp up next year to close to 3%, combined with a supply figure where only 9% of the fleet is on order, where the fleet is also aging, 32% of the Capes is 15-years and plus, we believe that supply demand fundamentals on dry bulk are actually very strong.

如果我們看看其他板塊，首先是乾散貨板塊，這是我們目前最大的投資領域。我們看到，今年好望角型散裝貨船的噸英里需求增加了0.8%。所以意義不大，但仍然是積極的，預計明年將增長到接近 3%，再加上供應數據，船隊中只有 9% 的船隻在訂購，而且船隊也在老化，32% 的海角型船舶船齡在 15 年以上，我們認為乾散貨的供需基本面實際上非常強勁。

On tankers, we are seeing demand growth this year, next year in tonne-mile. We see that the fleet is growing, but because of all the inefficiencies that we are seeing in the market, and I'll talk about that in a minute, we still believe that definitely, in the short term, the supply-demand figures look very good for tankers.

就油輪而言，我們看到今年和明年噸英里需求將會增加。我們看到船隊規模正在擴大，但由於我們在市場上看到的各種低效現象（我稍後會談到這一點），我們仍然相信，短期內油輪的供需情況肯定非常好。

Last but not least, on the offshore, offshore wind, but also offshore oil and gas. We have seen the offshore wind markets grow even though some projects have been postponed. But therefore offshore supply vessels, there has been a lot of extra demand for the oil and gas from the oil and gas market. So we are seeing offshore wind vessels going into the oil and gas market and supply-demand fundamentals definitely in that market are also positive.

最後但同樣重要的是，在海上，有離岸風電，還有海上石油和天然氣。儘管一些離岸風電項目被推遲，但我們看到離岸風電市場仍在成長。因此，海上供應船的需求量大，石油和天然氣市場對石油和天然氣的需求也隨之增加。因此，我們看到離岸風電船舶正在進入石油和天然氣市場，而該市場的供需基本面也絕對樂觀。

I'd like to zoom in to Bocimar and maybe go back one slide. You see here one of the vessels from Golden Zhoushan that has been renamed to the Mineral Sakura. So our renaming program is in full swing. We are keeping the Golden Zhoushan or the Golden prefix for our Panamaxes, but are renaming all our Capesizes and Newcastlemaxes to Mineral prefixes.

我想放大博西馬爾的圖片，也許還可以回到上一張投影片。您在這裡看到的是一艘來自金舟山的船隻，它已重新命名為「礦物櫻花號」。我們的更名計劃正在全面展開。我們將保留巴拿馬型船的“金舟山”或“金”前綴，但將所有好望角型船和紐卡斯爾型船更名為“礦物”前綴。

We have three large divisions in dry bulk, our Newcastlemaxes, our Capesizes and our Kamsarmaxes, Panamaxes. And we focus on the Newcastlemaxes first, what have they done in Q3. We achieved a TCE of $29,500. And in Q4 to date, we are at close to $34,000. On our Capes, the number for Q3 is $20,500 going up in this quarter at $26,200. You can see that we've already fixed quite a substantial amount of ships for Q4, but that number could still go up a little bit if the current markets stay strong.

我們在乾散貨運輸方面有三大部門：紐卡斯爾型散裝貨船、好望角型散裝貨船和卡姆薩爾型散裝貨船、巴拿馬型散裝貨船。我們首先關注紐卡斯爾Max系列帆船，看看它們在第三季表現如何。我們實現了 29,500 美元的總合約效率 (TCE)。截至第四季末，我們已接近 34,000 美元。就我們的 Cape 系列而言，第三季的數字是 20,500 美元，本季將上漲至 26,200 美元。你可以看到，我們已經為第四季度確定了相當多的船舶，但如果當前市場保持強勁，這個數字可能還會略有上升。

On the Kamsarmaxes and Panamaxes, definitely a positive surprise for this year. We have seen rates better than anticipated. We achieved rates around $13,500 in Q3, but that's already up in Q4 to $17,000. Main drivers for dry bulk when we look at all the indicators, a lot of them are green. It's positive on the China steel mill utilization. It's positive on soybean imports to China. Brazil iron ore exports there are also very good. And of course, the dry bulk fleet supply is growing, but we are seeing definitely in the larger segments, more demand growth than supply growth of vessels.

今年卡姆薩爾型和巴拿馬型油輪絕對是個令人驚喜的亮點。我們看到的利率比預期的還要好。第三季我們的利率約為 13,500 美元，但第四季已經上漲到 17,000 美元。從所有指標來看，乾散貨的主要驅動因素有很多，其中很多都是正面的。這對中國鋼鐵廠的開工率來說是個好消息。對中國而言，大豆進口量將增加。巴西的鐵礦石出口情況也非常好。當然，幹散貨船隊的供應量正在成長，但我們明顯看到，在較大的細分市場中，船舶的需求成長超過了供應成長。

Sorry for that, just was a bit too quick. Zooming in on the demand of iron ore, coal, grain and bauxite. You can see that all numbers are positive, expected positive for '26 and '27, except for coal, but we believe definitely for the larger sizes that iron ore and bauxite are compensating or overcompensating the less demand for coal. Watch the space on grain as well. Not really a big driver for Capesizes, but important for our Panamaxes. The numbers there are very positive. And with the recent lease agreement on tariffs between China and the US, we're expecting that demand hopefully to continue on the tonne-mile side.

抱歉，我剛才有點操之過急了。重點關注鐵礦石、煤炭、穀物和鋁土礦的需求。你可以看到所有數字都是正數，預計 2026 年和 2027 年都會是正數，除了煤炭，但我們確信，對於較大規模的煤炭而言，鐵礦石和鋁土礦肯定能夠彌補或超額彌補煤炭需求的減少。也請關注穀物領域的發展。對於好望角型散裝貨船來說，這並不是一個主要驅動因素，但對於我們的巴拿馬型散裝貨船來說卻很重要。那裡的數據非常樂觀。隨著中美兩國最近就關稅問題達成租賃協議，我們預計噸英里方面的需求預計將繼續增長。

If we look at the number of ships on order compared to the existing fleet, you can see that in 2026 and 2027, we are going to add some Capesizes to the market. But all in all, including '28, the order book to fleet is only 9%. The number for Panamaxes is 14% order book to fleet, but also there, with the demand figure, I think supply-demand should be balanced and definitely looking positive for that market.

如果我們看一下在建船舶的數量與現有船隊的數量，就會發現，在 2026 年和 2027 年，我們將向市場增加一些好望角型散裝貨船。但總的來說，包括 2028 年在內，訂單量與船隊交付量之比僅為 9%。巴拿馬型船的訂單量佔船隊的 14%，但考慮到需求數據，我認為供需應該能夠平衡，而且該市場前景肯定是積極的。

An important number to highlight is the average vessel age. As you can see, both Panamaxes and Capesizes are at historical highs in terms of average age, which always bodes well for potential scrapping.

需要重點關注的數字是船舶平均船齡。正如你所看到的，巴拿馬型和好望角型船舶的平均船齡都達到了歷史最高水平，這對潛在的拆解總是一個好兆頭。

The next 3 slides are providing you more information on the Brazil iron ore trade, the Australia iron ore trade and the Guinea iron ore and bauxite trade. On all three, I can say that we are at 5-year highs in terms of output. You can see the numbers there on the slide. And we've basically tried as well to highlight the seasonality. Seasonality in the Atlantic Basin in Australia and for Guinea is dependent on rain.

接下來的 3 張投影片將為您提供有關巴西鐵礦石貿易、澳洲鐵礦石貿易以及幾內亞鐵礦石和鋁土礦貿易的更多資訊。就產量而言，這三方面我們都達到了五年來的最高水準。你可以在幻燈片上看到這些數字。而且我們也盡量突出季節性。澳洲和幾內亞大西洋盆地的季節性變化取決於降雨量。

The rainy season usually in Brazil and Australia is in the first quarter. However, in Guinea, that's usually in the third and fourth quarters. So we see that the guinea season can actually help our markets because when Australia and Brazil are down, they are up. And actually, in the rainy season of Guinea this year, it was less than expected. So we saw some good outputs regardless of the rainy season.

巴西和澳洲的雨季通常在第一季。然而，在幾內亞，這種情況通常發生在第三季和第四季。因此，我們看到幾內亞的上市實際上可以幫助我們的市場，因為當澳洲和巴西股市下跌時，我們的股市就會上漲。事實上，今年幾內亞的雨季降雨量比預期少。所以，儘管正值雨季，我們還是看到了一些不錯的產出。

The key takeaway here from this slide and from the Australia slide and from the Guinea slide is that we are seeing volumes up, volumes at 5-year highs and seasonality in Q4 and Q1 actually supportive. I'd like to talk about our tankers, Euronav, our Tanker division and crude oil transportation. We have a trading fleet of 10 VLCCs with another 4 ECO VLCCS on order. Some of the pictures that you have seen during this presentation highlight the new VLCC that we took delivery of a couple of weeks ago, the Atrebates. We have another four coming in the following weeks and months.

從這張投影片、澳洲投影片和幾內亞投影片中我們可以看出，成交量正在上升，成交量達到 5 年來的最高水平，而且第四季和第一季的季節性因素實際上起到了支撐作用。我想談談我們的油輪、Euronav、我們的油輪部門以及原油運輸。我們擁有10艘VLCC（超大型油輪）的貿易船隊，另有4艘ECO VLCC（環保超大型油輪）正在訂購中。在本次演示中，您看到的一些圖片重點展示了我們幾週前接收的新型超大型油輪“阿特雷巴特斯”號。接下來幾週和幾個月內，我們還會迎來另外四位新成員。

We achieved $30,500 in Q3. So far in Q4, we are at $68,000 with 78% fixed. We believe that number can still go up, the fixings and the bookings that we have done in recent days and in the coming weeks are looking very promising. We sold 1 older ship, the Dalma, which generated a capital gain of $26 million. We've extended 1 ship by year, the Donoussa, and then we delivered two vessels to the new owners in Q3, the Hakata and Hakone.

第三季我們實現了 30,500 美元的收入。截至第四季末，我們已實現 68,000 美元，其中 78% 已固定。我們相信這個數字還會繼續上升，最近幾天和未來幾週的比賽安排和預訂情況看起來都非常樂觀。我們出售了一艘舊船“達爾瑪”號，獲得了 2600 萬美元的資本收益。我們每年延長一艘船的建造期限，即「多努薩號」，然後在第三季向新船東交付了兩艘船，分別是「博多號」和「箱根號」。

On the Suezmaxes, we have 17 vessels on the water. We have another two ships coming in the fleet next year at the end of Q1. We sold 1 Suezmax, the Sofia, which was delivered in Q4. And the rates we achieved in Q3 was strong, was $48,000. And Q4 quarter-to-date, we are close to $60,000. But again, there, we still have some days to fix. So there is upside to that number. When we look at the main drivers and the main indicators, we see that a lot of indicators are positive.

蘇伊士型貨輪方面，我們有 17 艘船在水上作業。明年第一季末，我們船隊還將新增兩艘船。我們售出了一艘蘇伊士型散裝貨船，名為「索菲亞號」，該船於第四季度交付。第三季我們取得的收益率非常強勁，達到了 48,000 美元。截至第四季末，我們已接近 6 萬美元。但是，在這方面，我們還有幾天時間來補救。所以這個數字也有正面的一面。當我們觀察主要驅動因素和主要指標時，會發現許多指標都是正面的。

And also on the tanker fleet supply year-on-year, it's still a moderate fleet growth.But let's look at what's coming. Zooming in on the demand, you can see that the forecasts are that there will still be an oversupply of oil in the coming months and quarters. That leads to more storage, that leads to more oil on the water, that leads to definitely, in the short term, better rates. Because if we look at the supply of vessels, you see that this year, there's been very little new ships coming on the water, but it's starting to creep up. So next year, '26 and in '27, we will see more Suezmaxes and VLCCs come to the market.

此外，油輪船隊供應量較去年同期仍保持溫和成長。但讓我們來看看未來會發生什麼。放大需求來看，預測顯示未來幾個月和幾季石油仍將出現供應過剩。這將導致更多的儲存，這將導致更多的石油在水面上，這肯定會在短期內帶來更好的油價。因為如果我們看一下船舶供應情況，就會發現今年新船下水的數量非常少，但這種情況正在逐漸改善。所以明年，也就是 2026 年和 2027 年，我們將看到更多蘇伊士型油輪和超大型油輪進入市場。

If you look at the average age of the fleet, this new supply should definitely be manageable. So in the very short term, maybe even medium term, we are still bullish on rates for tankers. What happens thereafter, a lot will depend on how many more tankers will be ordered and added to the order book. We are not at the single-digit numbers anymore. For the VLCCs, we're at 15% order book to fleet and Suezmax is 20%. So it's not what it used to be, but I would say that the short to medium term, things are still looking very good. And also the age of the fleet is supportive.

從艦隊的平均船齡來看，這批新增物資肯定是可以管理的。因此，在短期內，甚至中期內，我們仍然看好油輪運價。接下來會發生什麼，很大程度上取決於還會訂購多少油輪並添加到訂單簿中。我們現在已經不再是單位數數字了。對於超大型油輪（VLCC），我們的訂單量佔船隊的 15%，而蘇伊士型油輪（Suezmax）的訂單量佔船隊的 20%。所以情況雖然不如以前了，但我認為從中短期來看，情況依然非常好。此外，艦隊的年齡也起到了支持作用。

On containers, we can be quite brief. As you know, the exposure we have on containers is limited. Actually, it's zero. We have fixed all our ships to four vessels on the water to CMA CGM and then we have one ship coming next year on a 15-year charter. The market on containers has weakened. You can see the SCFI, which reflects the freight rates for containers paid.

關於貨櫃，我們可以言簡意賅。如您所知，我們對貨櫃的了解是有限的。實際上，是零。我們已經將所有船舶都租給了 CMA CGM，目前有四艘船在水上運營，明年我們還有一艘船將以 15 年租期租下。貨櫃市場疲軟。您可以看到 SCFI，它反映了已支付的貨櫃運費。

It has slipped down and is now at a level which is the lowest of the past 2-years. The high order book, more than 30% of ships on order, plus the Red Sea situation, which will unwind, lead us to being quite cautious on the supply side. Demand should also be lower next year. So container markets could be up for a bit of a rough patch.

它已經下滑，目前處於近兩年來的最低水平。訂單量很高，超過 30% 的船舶都在訂購中，加上紅海局勢將會緩解，這使得我們在供應方面相當謹慎。明年需求預計也會下降。因此，貨櫃市場可能會經歷一段艱難時期。

Chemical tankers. There, our spot exposure is also very limited. We have a couple of ships operating in a spool. So that's basically our spot exposure. All the rest is time chartered. We still have quite an interesting order book coming with all ships having been fixed. We have one more chemical tanker that has already been christened, but that will deliver soon coming to our fleet.

化學品油輪。在那裡，我們的現貨交易量也非常有限。我們有幾艘船正在輪流作業。這就是我們目前的部位情況。其餘船隻均為定期租船。所有船舶都已修復完畢，我們仍然有一批相當不錯的訂單即將到貨。我們還有一艘化學品油輪已經下水，即將加入我們的船隊。

Next year, we'll have two product tankers coming to the fleet, which are fully fixed. And then we have our ships in '28 and '29 that were fixed to MOL that will come later. But -- so our spot exposure on chemicals is relatively limited. It's a less volatile market, but it has come off its very high levels of last year and the year before, but we are still at very healthy levels.

明年，我們將有兩艘成品油輪加入船隊，這兩艘油輪都是完全固定的。然後我們還有 28 年和 29 年建造的船隻，它們被改裝成 MOL，稍後會提到。但是——因此，我們接觸化學物質的機會相對有限。市場波動性有所降低，雖然已經從去年和前年的高點回落，但目前仍處於非常健康的水平。

And then I'll finish with WindCat, the offshore wind division. Some of you might have seen in our press release but also in a separate WindCat press release that we ordered a new CSOV, an enlarged version of the CSOV, which we call an MP-ASV, and I'll say something about that in a second. But maybe first zooming in on our going concern business.

最後，我將介紹離岸風電部門 WindCat。你們中的一些人可能已經從我們的新聞稿以及另一份 WindCat 新聞稿中看到，我們訂購了一台新的 CSOV，它是 CSOV 的放大版，我們稱之為 MP-ASV，我稍後會對此做一些說明。但或許首先應該聚焦於我們持續經營的業務。

We have our CTVs, we have our CSOVs. We took delivery already of one CSOV. That ship has been fixed on a very short-term period for business in oil and gas in Australia. It already gave us earnings in the third quarter of $27,000. The fourth quarter rates are going up to $118,000 with most of the days already fixed. We have ordered this new multipurpose accommodation service vessel, which I will discuss in a second.

我們有 CTV，我們有 CSOV。我們已經收到一台CSOV。那艘船已被短期租用，用於在澳洲從事石油和天然氣業務。它第三季已經為我們帶來了 27,000 美元的收益。第四季利率將上漲至 118,000 美元，其中大部分天數已經確定。我們已經訂購了這艘新型多用途住宿服務船，我稍後會詳細介紹。

And then looking at our CTVs. You can see that the seasonally strong Q3, we achieved good rates of close to $3,500 a day on average. The slower period in Q4, our TCE sits at $2,800. Here, you have a render of the newest newbuilding order for CMB.TECH. So we ordered 1 ship with another options for 5 vessels. It is based on our existing CSOV design for the 120 passengers on board, but we've upsized it to 150 to even 190 passengers on board.

然後查看我們的CTV。可以看到，在季節性強勁的第三季度，我們實現了平均每天接近 3500 美元的良好收益率。在第四季淡季期間，我們的 TCE 為 2,800 美元。這裡展示的是CMB.TECH最新新船訂單的效果圖。我們訂購了一艘船，並保留了另外五艘船的選購權。它基於我們現有的 CSOV 設計，可容納 120 名乘客，但我們將其規模擴大到可容納 150 甚至 190 名乘客。

It will have a permanent gangway connection, which is better for oil and gas projects. It will be larger, so positive for our charters. When we look at the market, it will be the only vessel type that can truly operate between oil and gas on the one hand and the offshore wind on the other. Our existing ships are already suited to do that, but this one will be even better suited.

它將設有永久性舷梯連接，這對石油和天然氣項目來說更有利。規模會更大，這對我們的包機業務來說是件好事。從市場角度來看，它將是唯一能夠真正同時在石油天然氣和離岸風電領域運作的船舶類型。我們現有的船隻已經能夠勝任這項工作，但這艘船會更加合適。

We have 100-tonne subsea crane, which is installed. And when we look at where that ship will compete, we see that the flotel markets for oil and gas is one market that we will target. And when we look at designated ships for that market that also have the crane capability, we see that there's actually not that many vessels on the water and that are being built for this.

我們有一台100噸的海底起重機，已經安裝完畢。當我們審視這艘船將要參與的市場時，我們發現石油和天然氣浮動酒店市場是我們瞄準的目標市場之一。當我們查看專為該市場設計的、同時具備起重能力的船舶時，我們發現，實際上水面上並沒有那麼多專門為此建造的船舶。

Our markets are everywhere. But clearly, one of the markets that will be interesting and something to follow is the Brazilian oil and gas market where we see more than 30 FPSOs entering service in the next 2-years to 3-years, which will need a lot of support vessels coming there. The reasoning behind this is that we want to trade in the two markets. Eventually, the ship will end up in offshore wind. But as long as the offshore wind is a little bit quieter, we can also go to oil and gas.

我們的市場遍佈各地。但很顯然，巴西油氣市場將是值得關注的市場之一，我們預計未來 2 到 3 年內將有 30 多艘 FPSO 投入使用，這將需要大量的支援船隻前往那裡。這樣做的理由是我們想在兩個市場進行交易。最終，這艘船會駛入離岸風區。但只要海上風力稍微減弱一些，我們也可以去開採石油和天然氣。

And with this newbuilding or with this newest addition to our fleet, we can end the part of the presentation and go to the Q&A.

隨著這艘新船的建造，或者說我們船隊的這艘新成員的加入，我們可以結束這部分演示，進入問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Frode Morkedal.

（操作員指令）Frode Morkedal。

Yeah, Hi, everyone. This is Frode from Clarksons. First, I wanted to ask you about IMO. They delayed the carbon pricing by a year at least. So what's your verdict on this? And have you seen any change, I guess, in terms of let's say, interest or demand for dual fuel technology after that?

大家好。這是克拉克森公司的弗羅德。首先，我想問你關於IMO的問題。他們至少將碳定價推遲了一年。那麼你對此有何看法？那麼，在那之後，您是否觀察到人們對雙燃料技術的興趣或需求有任何變化？

Yeah. Thanks, Frode. I think it's a question many people have. Well, first on the delay, whether it's going to be a 1-year delay, 2-years delay or 3-years delay, we don't know. We have, of course, not based our strategy on the IMO coming to fruition in 2028.

是的。謝謝你，弗羅德。我想這是很多人都有的疑問。首先，關於延期問題，究竟是延期 1 年、2 年還是 3 年，我們還不得而知。當然，我們的策略並非建立在國際海事組織（IMO）在 2028 年實現的基礎上。

It definitely helps our business case. But our strategy on dual-fuel engines is based on finding like-minded partners to charter these vessels and use the technology to decarbonize. We have the EU legislation, which is in place, which is definitely supportive. IMO would have been a very nice to have. It's not a must-have for strategy and for our plans.

這無疑對我們的商業計劃大有裨益。但我們在雙燃料引擎方面的策略是，尋找志同道合的合作夥伴來租賃這些船舶，並利用這項技術實現脫碳。我們有歐盟的相關法律法規，這些法規已經到位，這無疑是一個支持性的法律。在我看來，擁有它會是一件非常好的事。它並非策略和計劃的必備要素。

Our opinion on whether eventually, they will find an agreement on the IMO level is that we don't know. But we do see that after the failure of IMO, there's a lot more discussion between countries on a bilateral basis to see what can be done on certain trade lanes, say, Australia to China, for instance, or trades that are linked to Europe. So the last word has definitely not been said, but it will not change anything to our strategy.

對於他們最終能否在國際海事組織層面達成協議，我們的看法是，我們並不清楚。但我們確實看到，在國際海事組織失敗之後，各國之間在雙邊基礎上進行了更多討論，以了解可以在某些貿易航線上做些什麼，例如澳大利亞到中國的航線，或者與歐洲相關的貿易。所以，最終結果尚未出爐，但這不會改變我們的策略。

Okay. Fair enough. One question on your, let's say, investment philosophy. So you ordered a few large CSOVs, I guess, you can call it. But how do you think about opportunities in other segments like dry bulk and tankers? Are you looking to invest more there or maybe trim or sell in those segments?

好的。很公平。關於您的投資理念，我有一個問題。所以，你訂購了一些大型 CSOV，我猜，你可以這麼稱呼它們。但您如何看待其他領域（例如乾散貨和油輪）的機會？您是打算增加在這些領域的投資，還是考慮減持或出售這些領域的股份？

Well, I think we've invested already a lot over the last 2-, 3-years at the right time, I would say. We will always look opportunistically at newbuildings. But today, clearly, we think newbuildings are quite pricey. That doesn't mean we would not order if it's the right value and if we believe that it will create value for us and our balance sheet can take it.

我認為，在過去的2、3年裡，我們已經在適當的時機進行了大量投資。我們將始終以機會主義的眼光看待新造船項目。但如今，很顯然，我們認為新建房屋價格相當昂貴。但這並不意味著如果價格合適，我們相信它會為我們創造價值，而且我們的資產負債表能夠承受，我們就不會下訂單。

You just saw that we ordered this extra wind vessel, which is really an offshore vessel. We think there's very good value there. We think this is also something CMB.TECH can perfectly do even if we have more options that we can declare going forward. So -- but that's on the newbuilding side.

您剛才也看到了，我們訂購了這艘額外的風力發電船，它實際上是一艘海上作業船。我們認為那裡的產品非常有價值。我們認為，即使未來我們還有更多選擇可以宣布，CMB.TECH 也完全能夠做到這一點。所以——但那是關於新建案的情況。

On the secondhand, you have seen, and we will continue to do that, that we're clearing out our older vessels, because we just think rates are very good and the prices for secondhand tonnage are at a level where we're rather sellers than buyers. We still have a couple of older vessels. Don't be surprised if we clear them out. But then there will come a point where we're very satisfied with the age profile of our ship, and we're very satisfied of basically staying on the market and enjoying the good markets.

二手船方面，你們已經看到了，而且我們還會繼續這樣做，我們正在清理我們的舊船，因為我們認為運費非常好，二手船的價格已經到了我們更願意做賣家而不是買家的水平。我們還有幾艘老舊的船。如果我們把它們全部清除掉，請不要感到驚訝。但總有一天，我們會對我們船舶的船齡組成感到非常滿意，並且非常滿意能夠繼續留在市場上，享受良好的市場行情。

Okay. Last question on the dividend. So this is the $0.05 second quarter in a row. So that makes it tempting to think this is some type of minimum level going forward? Or should investors expect dividends are flexible going forward?

好的。關於股息的最後一個問題。這是連續第二季每股收益為 0.05 美元。所以這很容易讓人認為這是未來某種最低標準？或者投資人應該預期未來的股利支付方式會比較彈性？

I think, Alex, I'll take it. We have a fully discretionary dividend policy. I think we've been pretty clear that every quarter, the Board will decide what we'll do with the cash that we have. And it's fair to say that with the meaningful cash flow generation that we are seeing in Q4, that we're expecting in Q1, that there will definitely be a further look at how to reward the shareholders, whether that's share buyback, whether that's dividends, whether that's an accelerated clearing out of some of the bonds.

我想，亞歷克斯，我收下。我們實行完全自主決定的股利政策。我認為我們已經非常明確地表示，每個季度，董事會都會決定我們如何處理現有的現金。可以肯定地說，鑑於我們在第四季度看到的、以及我們預計在第一季度也將看到的顯著現金流，我們肯定會進一步考慮如何回報股東，無論是股票回購、分紅，還是加快清算部分債券。

Some people have mentioned the bridge financing or just reducing leverage. I think it's -- these markets, the way we positioned ourselves in there so that it goes very fast. And that I don't think we're there to say minimum dividends. We don't say maximum dividends. We're there to balance between rewarding shareholders and strengthening our balance sheet to be positioned for opportunities when they present themselves, whether it's organically or through M&A.

有人提到過渡性融資或降低槓桿率。我認為關鍵在於——這些市場，以及我們進入這些市場的方式，使得市場發展非常迅速。而且我認為我們到那裡不是為了說最低股息。我們不說最高股利。我們的目標是在回報股東和增強資產負債表之間取得平衡，以便在機會出現時抓住它們，無論是透過自身發展還是透過併購。

Eirik Haavaldsen.

埃里克·哈瓦爾森。

Yeah, hi. This is Eirik from Pareto. Just following up a little bit on the S&P because you have -- you haven't -- I mean, do you have a sort of target list of the vessels you could dispose of? I'm thinking especially on the tanker side now where S&P markets are interesting, but the cash flows are also fantastic, right? So how do you balance that short-term cash flow versus potentially realizing some of these elevated asset values?

嗨，你好。這是來自 Pareto 的 Eirik。我只是想稍微了解一下標普的情況，因為你——你還沒有——我的意思是，你是否有一份可以處置的目標船隻清單？我現在尤其關注油輪領域，標普500指數走勢很有意思，現金流也相當可觀，對吧？那麼，如何平衡短期現金流與實現這些高資產價值之間的平衡呢？

It all depends on the price. But I think, Eirik, you will agree with me if you're getting north of $50 million for 18-, 19-year-old VLCCs, there's a good case to say that you should sell. Other people might say, no, keep it on the spot market and trade it out for another year. We are more in the first camp. I think tonnage, which is older than 15-years old at current valuations, and again, it will depend on the bid, and it will depend on the price. We are more sellers than keeping it in our fleet. That doesn't mean we will do it at any cost.

一切都取決於價格。但我想，艾瑞克，如果你能以超過 5000 萬美元的價格出售船齡 18、19 年的 VLCC，你就會同意我的觀點，那就是你應該賣掉它們。其他人可能會說，不，應該繼續在現貨市場上交易，再等一年。我們更傾向於第一種觀點。我認為噸位，以目前的估值來說，船齡超過 15 年的船舶，而且，這還要取決於出價，最終價格也會有所不同。我們賣出的車輛比我們自己保留的還要多。但這並不意味著我們會不惜一切代價去做這件事。

And what about on the -- I mean on the modern vessels though, to lock some of them up to sort of derisk a little bit your cash flows. Is that something you're looking at?

那麼，對於——我是指現代船舶而言，將其中一些鎖定起來，以降低現金流的風險，又該如何呢？你在關注這個嗎？

Yes. So a very good question, Eirik. I think we've mentioned this in previous calls as well, and we've been very open about that. If we see good levels to take some cover, we will definitely do it. We like to have 40,000 spot days. But at one point, we also want to use the market to take some cover.

是的。艾瑞克，你問得非常好。我想我們在之前的電話會議中也提到過這一點，而且我們對此一直非常坦誠。如果發現有合適的掩護時機，我們一定會採取行動。我們希望有 40,000 個現貨日。但有時，我們也希望利用市場來尋求一些避險。

Keep the young vessels in our fleet, but take some TC cover. Now as we've not announced a lot of time charters, it also means that right now, both on tankers and on dry bulk, we've not been tempted by numbers that are good enough for us to take action.

保留我們艦隊中的年輕艦艇，但要做好應對熱帶氣旋的準備。由於我們目前還沒有公佈很多定期租船合同，這也意味著，無論是油輪還是乾散貨，目前還沒有出現足以讓我們採取行動的數字。

Very good. And finally, should we read anything into the fact that you're not changing the prefix on the Panamax Kamsar fleets of Golden?

非常好。最後，我們是否應該從您沒有更改 Golden 的 Panamax Kamsar 艦隊的前綴這一事實中得出什麼結論呢？

No, it's a good question. Looking back in the CMB days, we had a CMB prefix. Look, we're very happy and proud that Golden Zhoushan is now part of our company, even though we're not using the brand name any longer, we like to respect the Golden Zhoushan history and then keep them as part of our name and our brands by keeping the Golden prefix on Panamaxes.

不，這是個好問題。回想CMB時代，我們有一個CMB前綴。你看，我們非常高興和自豪地看到金舟山現在是我們公司的一部分，即使我們不再使用這個品牌名稱，我們也尊重金舟山的歷史，並通過在巴拿馬型帆船上保留“金”這個前綴，將其作為我們名稱和品牌的一部分。

Kristof Samoy.

克里斯托夫·薩莫伊。

Yes, good afternoon, Kristof Samoy from KBC Securities. A few have been addressed already. So -- but maybe first on -- to go a little bit deeper into IMO that was already touched upon. If the conditions would be right to consider newbuild ordering, would you, for sure, order ammonia or H2-ready or fitted vessels or could you nowadays also consider LNG-ready or fitted vessels? And then secondly, just with regards to the decision of the IMO, what impact does it have on your business plan for H2 industry and Infra?

是的，下午好，我是KBC證券的Kristof Samoy。有些問題已經解決。所以——但也許首先——讓我們更深入地探討一下之前已經略有提及的個人觀點。如果條件合適，可以考慮訂購新船，您一定會訂購氨氣或氫氣專用船舶，還是現在也可以考慮液化天然氣專用船舶？其次，就國際海事組織的決定而言，這對貴公司在氫能產業和基礎設施方面的商業計畫有何影響？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah. And thank you, Kristof. So we are more convinced than ever that ammonia is a very good choice to decarbonize. And the reason is not only because we are now getting very close to showing to the world that the technology actually works, but also because we have seen over the last 12-months in China and in India, tremendous evolution on increasing the availability of the green ammonia molecules and reduction in the cost of the green ammonia molecules.

是的。謝謝你，克里斯托夫。因此，我們比以往任何時候都更加確信，氨是一種非常好的脫碳選擇。原因不僅在於我們現在即將向世界證明這項技術確實有效，還在於過去 12 個月裡，我們在中國和印度看到了綠色氨分子供應量大幅增加和綠色氨分子成本大幅降低的巨大進步。

So on IMO, even though, as I just said, I don't think there will be a lot of movement in the next couple of years, and I hope we will be surprised, we still think that technology and cost and availability of molecules will be the main driver to convince people like ourselves, but also partners that want to decarbonize their fleet to go for ammonia. So in short, right now, we're not looking at any LNG projects. Never say never, but our choice of fuel is still ammonia.

所以，就國際海事組織而言，儘管正如我剛才所說，我認為未來幾年不會有太大的變化，我希望我們能感到驚喜，但我們仍然認為，技術、成本和分子的可用性將是說服像我們這樣的人以及希望實現船隊脫碳的合作夥伴選擇氨的主要驅動力。簡而言之，目前我們沒有考慮任何液化天然氣計畫。凡事皆有可能，但我們仍然選擇氨作為燃料。

On your second question on H2 Infra and H2 Industry, these are very small divisions. They are supporting the business we do on the development of hydrogen and ammonia engines on the Industry side, and they are trying to develop molecules, producing molecules but also sourcing molecules on the H2 Infra side. There, we have a lot of ongoing discussions with suppliers in China and India to buy molecules for our fleet of next year. Nothing we can announce yet, but as soon as we have news on that, we will definitely let you know.

關於您提出的第二個問題，即 H2 基礎設施和 H2 工業，這些都是非常小的部門。他們支持我們在工業領域開展的氫和氨發動機開發業務，他們正在努力開發分子、生產分子，同時也在 H2 基礎設施領域尋找分子來源。在那裡，我們與中國和印度的供應商進行了許多持續的討論，以便為我們明年的車隊購買分子。目前還沒有什麼可以公佈的，但一旦有相關消息，我們一定會第一時間通知您。

And maybe just as a follow-up, I mean any change in the attitudes or the appetite of miners to conclude long-term charters since the decision of the IMO has been made public?

或許可以作為後續問題，我的意思是，自從國際海事組織（IMO）的決定公佈以來，礦業公司在簽訂長期租船合約的態度或意願方面是否有所變化？

That's again a very good question, Kristof. I think there's three categories of people, people like us that were convinced before the IMO discussion that we should decarbonize our fleet. And we have a couple of customers, as you saw in April with the deals that we announced that will continue down that path. So people that were convinced are continuing to engage with us and continue their investments.

克里斯托夫，這又是一個很好的問題。我認為有三類人，像我們這樣的人在國際海事組織討論之前就確信我們應該實現船隊脫碳。正如您在四月看到的，我們有一些客戶會繼續沿著這條路走下去，就像我們宣布的交易一樣。因此，那些被說服的人會繼續與我們互動並繼續投資。

There's another category of people, and that's still the vast majority in shipping that take a very much wait-and-see attitude and that don't do anything and basically wait to see how this will evolve. And then the category in between people that were hesitating a little bit, I think we definitely lost part of them that they are not looking at it anymore and more than the camp of wait and see. But some others still continue to engage and ask questions. So it's a little bit of everything.

還有另一類人，他們仍然是航運業的絕大多數，他們持觀望態度，什麼都不做，基本上只是等待事情如何發展。然後，還有一部分人還在猶豫，我認為我們肯定失去了其中的一部分人，他們不再關注此事，而且比那些持觀望態度的人更多。但還有一些人繼續參與討論並提出問題。所以它包羅萬象。

The conclusion for us is simple. Had the IMO decision been taken a couple of weeks ago, it would definitely have propelled our business plan to a much higher speed, but it doesn't slow down our business plan, and it doesn't change our business plan, but it would definitely have helped.

我們的結論很簡單。如果國際海事組織的決定是在幾週前做出的，那肯定會大大加快我們的商業計劃的實施速度，但這並沒有減緩我們的商業計劃，也沒有改變我們的商業計劃，但肯定會有所幫助。

Climent Molins.

克萊門特·莫林斯。

Hi, good afternoon. This is Climent, known from Value Inestor's Edge. I wanted to start by asking about your interest expenses for the quarter. Did those include any one-offs? Or is it, let's say, a clean quarter?

您好，下午好。這是克萊門特，他是Value Inestor's Edge的創辦人。我想先詢問一下您本季的利息支出狀況。其中包括任何一次性事件嗎？或者，比如說，這是一個乾淨的季度？

It's a good question, Climent. There's two things. Obviously, when you do leverage buyouts, those bridges are somewhat more expensive. We had $1.3 billion. We've reduced that to close to $220 million end of quarter, but that definitely has explained our Q2 and Q3 figures of elevated interest expense.

克萊門特，你問得好。有兩件事。顯然，當你進行槓桿收購時，這些過渡性融資的成本會更高。我們當時有13億美元。到季末，我們已經將這一數字減少到接近 2.2 億美元，但這無疑解釋了我們第二季和第三季利息支出偏高的原因。

Second point there is, obviously, when we did those acquisitions, both from a Euronav point of view, but also Golden Zhoushan, we had a back financing of releveraging the fleet to be able to pay back. And those refinancings, you always incur arrangement fees with the banks. And these, you have to write off over the length of the financing. So if you refinance $2 billion over 5-years, and you pay a percent arrangement fee, you're going to add $4 million of interest expense every year. And as we've been doing a lot of these, these obviously are increasing the total interest expenses.

第二點很明顯，當我們進行這些收購時，無論是從 Euronav 的角度來看，還是從 Golden Zhoushan 的角度來看，我們都進行了後備融資，透過重新槓桿化船隊來償還債務。而且，進行這些再融資時，您總是需要向銀行支付安排費。這些費用需要在融資期限內分期攤提。因此，如果您在 5 年內對 20 億美元進行再融資，並支付一定比例的安排費，那麼您每年將增加 400 萬美元的利息支出。由於我們做了很多這類事情，顯然會增加總利息支出。

That said, I think only in the last 3-weeks, we've been able to look at our total financing package where we had an average of SOFR plus 275 throughout all our financings. And we are actively working billion per billion to reduce that by 100 basis points to 125 basis points. So this is more going to be a topic of 2026 of optimizing our financing portfolio and costs as part of, I would say, integrating the businesses and optimizing our balance sheets.

也就是說，我認為直到最近 3 週，我們才能夠查看我們的整體融資方案，其中我們所有融資的平均 SOFR 加 275。我們正在積極努力，爭取將這一數字降低 100 個基點至 125 個基點。因此，這將成為 2026 年的一個主要議題，即優化我們的融資組合和成本，我認為這是整合業務和優化資產負債表的一部分。

That's helpful. My second question is also on the modeling side. First, should we expect G&A to come in at around $34 million as well in Q4. And secondly, where do you see the run rate on the G&A front once you've realized any potential synergies from the merger with Golden Zhoushan?

那很有幫助。我的第二個問題也與建模方面有關。首先，我們是否應該預期第四季的一般及行政費用也約為 3,400 萬美元？其次，在實現與金舟山合併可能產生的綜效後，您認為一般及行政費用的運行速度會如何？

Yeah, I think it's a valid question. When you do large-scale transactions, you always incur a lot of lawyer fees, auditor fees, financial advisory fees and others. And we've been doing that 2-years in a row, doing multiple billion-dollar transactions.

是的，我認為這是個很合理的問題。進行大規模交易時，總是會產生大量的律師費、審計費、財務顧問費和其他費用。我們已經連續兩年這樣做了，完成了多筆數十億美元的交易。

That has not helped our SG&A, full stop. It is a review that we're making while we are integrating the teams, optimizing the insurance packages, the IT systems and everything like in normal M&A processes, this will be optimized. To put the actual figure, Climent, I think it's hard to say. I think 2026, give us a couple of quarters, and you'll see those SG&A naturally normalize, I would say.

這樣做對我們的銷售、管理及行政費用沒有任何幫助，就這麼簡單。這是我們在整合團隊、優化保險方案、IT系統以及所有相關事宜的同時進行的審查，就像正常的併購流程一樣，這將會得到最佳化。克萊門特，要給出確切數字，我覺得很難說。我認為到 2026 年，再過幾個季度，你會看到銷售、一般及行政費用自然而然地恢復正常。

Makes sense. And final question for me. Does the $1.57 billion in remaining commitments include the CapEx on the recent CSOV newbuild addition?

有道理。最後一個問題。剩餘的 15.7 億美元承諾是否包括最近 CSOV 新造船項目的資本支出？

No, that's a good point. So in the Q4, we'll add that. Currently, as Alex mentioned, it's 1 ship. We can't disclose the newbuild price, but somewhat higher, I would say, than your smaller CSOV. But that is going to be added to the total CapEx.

沒錯，你說得對。所以，在第四季度，我們將會加入這項功能。正如 Alex 所提到的，目前只有 1 艘船。我們不能透露新船價格，但我想說，會比你們較小的 CSOV 高一些。但這部分費用將計入總資本支出。

Kristoffer.

克里斯多福。

Hello, good afternoon. Can you comment a bit on when the options on the CSOVs are lapsing and when is the delivery of the optional vessels? In order to declare them, would you need to see any long-term contracts in the division? Or to put it differently, what do you need to see to declare these options?

您好，下午好。您能否簡要說明CSOV的選擇權何時到期以及可選船舶何時交付？要申報這些合同，需要查看該部門的任何長期合同嗎？換句話說，你需要看到什麼才能確定這些選項？

Yeah. We have a lot of time, so close to a year to declare the option. And then, of course, the options thereafter. Of course, the earlier we declare, the earlier the vessels could deliver. We're looking at deliveries in 2028 and 2029. Answer in terms of contracts, it's not a must have to have a contract to lift the option. Of course, if we get a contract straight away, we could lift the option earlier, but we can also lift without a contract.

是的。我們有充足的時間，差不多還有一年的時間來決定是否要行使權利。當然，還有之後的各種選擇。當然，我們越早宣布，船隻就能越早交付。我們正在考慮 2028 年和 2029 年的交付。從合約角度來看，解除選擇權並不一定需要合約。當然，如果我們能立即簽訂合同，我們可以提前行使選擇權，但即使沒有合同，我們也可以行使選擇權。

Perfect. And moving over to the Tanker division. What type of time charter levels would you need to see in order to derisk estimates here? It's sort of -- it seems like rates are starting to move up quite fast. So -- and --

完美的。接下來轉到油輪部門。為了降低估算風險，您需要看到什麼樣的定期租船水準？感覺利率好像開始快速上漲了。所以——--

Where do you pick the 5-year, would you pick a 5-year for modern VLCC --

你會選擇哪家公司提供的五年合約？你會選擇五年合約來評估現代超大型油輪（VLCC）嗎？

Probably just below 50 or something or?

大概不到50吧？

So clearly, that's not something we would do right now. I mean we can still change our mind, of course. But I think the market would need to be higher on long term, and I'm talking 5-years plus then in order to consider. So current rates are -- for us for our modern tonnage, and I stress on modern tonnage, we would need to see more.

所以很顯然，我們現在不會這麼做。當然，我們還是可以改變主意的。但我認為，從長遠來看，市場需要走高，我指的是 5 年以上，才值得考慮。所以目前的費率——對於我們這些現代化的船舶而言，我強調是現代化的船舶，我們需要看到更高的費率。

And final one for me. In terms of the bond process you had ongoing, can you just comment a bit on how you're sort of looking to refinance the bond maturing next year? And is it still only debt instrument with an equity covenant and not value just equity?

這是我最後一個問題。關於您正在進行的債券發行流程，您能否簡單介紹一下您打算如何為明年到期的債券進行再融資？它仍然只是帶有股權契約的債務工具，而不只是評估股權價值嗎？

Yeah. Great question. I think we stopped the bond process because we had much cheaper alternatives, Kristoffer. So -- in that same flow, we are anticipating paying back the bonds with our own free cash flow, sale of assets and own liquidity. We don't anticipate the bond process to be reinitiated anytime soon. It's a cheap bonds, [6.25].

是的。問得好。克里斯托弗，我認為我們停止債券發行流程是因為我們有更便宜的替代方案。因此——按照同樣的流程，我們預計用我們自己的自由現金流、資產出售和自身流動資金來償還債券。我們預計債券發行程序不會很快重新啟動。這是廉價債券，[6.25]。

So we'll probably leave it run until September '26. And the way it's continuing, not just the bond but also on the bridge, we feel that we can pay this with our own means. So we don't foresee any equity issuances or debt capital markets in the coming quarters.

所以我們可能會讓它運行到 2026 年 9 月。而且照目前的情況來看，不只是債券，還有橋樑建設，我們覺得我們可以用自己的力量來支付這筆費用。因此，我們預計未來幾季不會有任何股權發行或債務資本市場活動。

Axel.

阿克塞爾。

Thank you. Three questions from me. One, how do you see potential removal of US sanctions on Russian oil to influence the tanker market and the tanker rates? Second question, if the Guinea volumes on the iron ore just started replaces the Australian exports to China. How do you see this outlook, or this influencing the -- your bullish outlook on the dry bulk market on the -- for the large dry bulk carriers? And thirdly, what kind of optimal financing structure, kind of leverage are you looking for after you've taken delivery of your newbuilding program?

謝謝。我有三個問題。第一，您認為美國取消對俄羅斯石油的製裁會對油輪市場和油輪運費產生怎樣的影響？第二個問題，幾內亞的鐵礦石產量是否剛開始取代澳洲對中國的出口。您如何看待這種前景，或者說這種前景對您看好乾散貨市場（尤其是大型乾散貨船）的看法有何影響？第三，在新船交付後，您希望採用什麼樣的最佳融資結構和槓桿率？

Okay. I'll take the two first questions, and then maybe, Ludovic, you can comment on our finance structure. So on Ukraine, I think the easy thing to say is that before the fully fledged war started in 2022 or when you look at the effect of the war, it was definitely positive for crude oil tankers. So if we would unwind it, one might say, logically, it will be negative.

好的。我先回答前兩個問題，然後，盧多維克，也許你可以談談我們的財務結構。所以關於烏克蘭，我認為最簡單的說法是，在 2022 年全面戰爭爆發之前，或者當你審視戰爭的影響時，這對原油油輪來說絕對是正面的。所以如果我們把它反過來看，從邏輯上講，結果可能是負面的。

In our opinion, it's way too early to say. And actually, we don't know. Maybe in theory, relief of sanctions on Russia could be negative for our market because then you unwind everything that has been put in place over the last 2- or 3-years. But in practical terms, I think there will be a lot of different levers that will play an impact on that. So the short answer to your question is we don't know what the impact will be.

我們認為現在下結論還為時過早。實際上，我們也不知道。理論上講，解除對俄羅斯的製裁可能對我們的市場產生負面影響，因為那樣一來，過去兩三年實施的所有措施都將失效。但實際上，我認為有很多不同的因素會對此產生影響。所以，對於你的問題，簡而言之，我們不知道會產生什麼影響。

On Guinea cannibalizing Australian volumes because I think that's what you mean. I think two things need to be said there. On iron ore specifically, you have to know that the very beginning, all the volumes are going to China and are actually being transported by Chinese ships, which is taking away capacity. So it's supporting the market in general.

關於幾內亞蠶食澳洲的銷量，我想這就是你的意思。我認為有兩點需要說明。具體到鐵礦石，你必須知道，從一開始，所有的鐵礦石都運往中國，而且實際上是由中國船隻運輸的，這佔據了運力。所以它對整體市場起到了支撐作用。

Going forward, of course, as we see a ramp-up and there would be any cannibalization, the logical immediate effect is that you're replacing short tonne mile with long tonne mile, so the effect is relatively positive. If on top of that, you would see that the price of iron ore starts falling, you might push out some producers that have a higher breakeven level. And again, there, we think that we'll rather stimulate the high or the long tonne mile and the short tonne mile.

當然，展望未來，隨著產量增加，任何蠶食都會發生，合乎邏輯的直接影響就是用長噸英里取代短噸英里，因此影響相對積極。如果在此基礎上，鐵礦石價格開始下跌，可能會擠壓一些損益平衡點較高的生產商的生存空間。而且，我們認為，我們更應該刺激高噸英里或長噸英里和短噸英里的發展。

But all in all, cannibalization of volumes of Australian volumes and replacing them by Guinea volumes, we think it will definitely have an impact on the market. But on a net basis, it could actually be positive. It's on the --

但總而言之，澳洲的銷售量被幾內亞的銷售所蠶食，我們認為這肯定會對市場產生影響。但從整體來看，這實際上可能是積極的。它在…--

And then Axel, on the optimal loan-to-value, I mean, we are indicating a 50% loan-to-value throughout the cycle. We're somewhat north of that. So after the full delivery newbuilding program assimilated, and most of it is going to be end '26. I think out of the $1.5 billion, we're taking a delivery of $1 billion worth of ships in '26. So thereafter, it's only a few ships that are on long-term charters.

然後，Axel，關於最佳貸款價值比，我的意思是，我們建議在整個週期中保持 50% 的貸款價值比。我們的位置比那裡略偏北一些。所以，在新造船計劃全面交付之後，大部分將在 2026 年底完成。我認為在15億美元的預算中，我們將在2026年接收價值10億美元的船。所以此後，只有少數船舶處於長期租賃狀態。

We're definitely targeting the 50%. But in your 50%, I think it's important to look at what is the cost of those financings where we still have some expensive leases on board. We still have bonds. We still have bridges. I think it's also the work in the next two quarters to take out, I would say, the more expensive debt, replace it by inexpensive financing, which is readily available for companies like us at this stage.

我們肯定以達到 50% 為目標。但就你提到的 50% 而言，我認為重要的是要考慮這些融資的成本，因為我們目前還有一些昂貴的租賃合約。我們還有債券。我們仍然有橋樑。我認為，未來兩季的工作重點是償還成本較高的債務，並用低成本的融資方式取而代之，這種融資方式對於像我們這樣的公司來說，在這個階段很容易獲得。

Thank you. Just a short follow-up. Maybe you partly answered that earlier, but could we then expect a fixed payout ratio, also an explicit dividend policy different from what you have or don't have today thereafter?

謝謝。簡單跟進一下。也許您之前已經部分回答過這個問題，但我們是否可以期待未來會有固定的派息率，以及與您目前不同的明確的股利政策？

No. I think -- no, we don't have. It's a fully discretionary dividend policy. I think while our balance sheet and our company is still in transition, I think that's an important one to say, we need to keep the flexibility to decide on every dollar that goes down on debt, M&A, newbuilds, rewarding shareholders to share buyback or dividends. So we're not going to go for a fixed payout anytime in the short future.

不。我想——不，我們沒有。這是一項完全由個人酌情決定的分紅政策。我認為，雖然我們的資產負債表和公司仍在轉型期，但這一點很重要，我們需要保持靈活性，決定每一美元的用途，包括債務、併購、新造船、回購股票或分紅等，以獎勵股東。因此，在不久的將來，我們不會採取固定支付方式。

Then we have a few questions in the Q&A. So I will ask them.

接下來是問答環節，我們有幾個問題。那我到時候會問他們。

The first one, is it correct that the 2026 FCF sensitivities assume $180,000 a day in VLCC rate for the whole of 2026. If so, can you provide more color on the factors behind such an assumption?

第一個問題，2026 年 FCF 敏感度分析是否假設 2026 年全年 VLCC 每天的費率為 18 萬美元？如果是這樣，您能否詳細說明做出這種假設背後的原因？

Sure. It's $118,000, so $118,000 and not $180,000. I think this is not a projection. We are not believing that this could hold on for a year because we don't know. We are in a kind of market where it could go anyway right now. Supply-demand looks positive, like Alex mentioned, we just want to show the free cash flow capacity.

當然。是 118,000 美元，不是 180,000 美元。我認為這並非預測。我們不認為這種情況能持續一年，因為我們無法預知未來。我們現在所處的市場環境，一切都有可能。正如 Alex 所提到的，供需關係看起來不錯，我們只想展示自由現金流能力。

If at $118,000 a day for a full year, for VLCCs, which is relatively small in our spot exposure compared to our dry bulk, where we anticipate $34,000 on Newcastlemaxes, where actually we're at $44,000 right now. If you look at the market.

如果 VLCC 的日租金為 118,000 美元，持續一整年，那麼與我們的乾散貨相比，VLCC 在我們現貨業務中的佔比相對較小。我們預計紐卡斯爾型散裝貨船的租金為 34,000 美元，而目前紐卡斯爾型散裝貨船的租金實際上為 44,000 美元。如果你觀察一下市場。

So it's just an assumption to show the operational leverage and the free cash flow generation capacity of our company. Hence, it is strengthened by the belief that we'll be able to pay back the bridges and the bonds and our newbuild CapEx just by on cash flow. We're fixing Q4 already, deep down Q4, and we're starting to fix Q1. So Q4 and Q1, there is a good likelihood that we are hovering around elevated levels. Is it going to be $118,000, we don't know. But is it going to be [34] for Newcastlemaxes, we don't even know as well. This could go up.

所以這只是一個假設，用來展示我們公司的營運槓桿和自由現金流產生能力。因此，我們有信心僅靠現金流就能償還橋樑建設、債券以及新建案的資本支出。我們已經在著手解決第四季的問題，從根本上解決第四季的問題，我們也開始著手解決第一季的問題。因此，第四季度和第一季度，我們很有可能處於高位附近徘徊。會是 11.8 萬美元嗎？我們不知道。但對紐卡斯爾馬克斯來說，它是否會是[34]，我們也不知道。這個數字可能會上漲。

Right. Then the second question, what are your expectations for the Simandou mine opening? How important is the service to the offshore oil market OSV to you going forward? There are some very old vessels in operation by competitors. What are our depreciation rates?

正確的。那麼第二個問題是，您對西芒杜礦的開採有何期待？展望未來，海上石油市場服務船（OSV）對您來說有多重要？競爭對手公司仍在營運一些非常老舊的船隻。我們的折舊率是多少？

Okay. So on Simandou, I think we've highlighted this already many times. That is, of course, going to be a meaningful impact as it ramps up to its full capacity of 120 million tonnes of extra iron ore. I think on the offshore market, we can be very clear. We have our CTVs for the offshore wind specifically.

好的。關於西芒杜，我認為我們已經多次強調這一點了。當然，隨著其產能逐步提升至1.2億噸額外鐵礦石的滿載運轉，這將產生重大影響。我認為在離岸市場，我們可以非常清楚地認識到這一點。我們有專門用於離岸風電的CTV（連續可變傳輸裝置）。

We have six CSOVs, which are a very meaningful investment of close to $0.5 billion, where we definitely want to continue to fix them well, short term and long term. We have now one extra CSOV XL. If it is successful, if we see traction with our customers, we will definitely order more. And the last question?

我們有六個 CSOV，這是一項非常有意義的投資，金額接近 5 億美元，我們肯定希望繼續在短期和長期內好好解決這些問題。我們現在多了 CSOV XL。如果效果好，如果我們看到客戶對此感興趣，我們肯定會追加訂單。最後一個問題？

On depreciation rates, we depreciate, I think, 20-years of scrap. Now on OSVs, the scrap is relatively light. So you can assume close to zero, but these are depreciation that we use on the offshore oil vessels.

關於折舊率，我認為我們以20年的廢料折舊。現在，在海上支援船上，廢料相對較輕。所以你可以假設接近零，但這些是我們用於海上石油船舶的折舊。

Quirijn.

奎里恩。

Quirijn Mulder from ING. I have a couple of questions. My first question is with regard to the tariffs. Have you calculated what the impact was of tariffs on your company, let me say, between April 1, and the end of September? That's my first question. And the second question is about, let me say, if you look at your fixed contracts, [295], I think [294] in that range. What do you think it will be at the end of 2025? That are my two questions.

來自 ING 的 Quirijn Mulder。我有幾個問題。我的第一個問題是關於關稅的。您是否計算過關稅對貴公司的影響，比如說，從 4 月 1 日到 9 月底這段時間？這是我的第一個問題。第二個問題是，比如說，如果你看一下你的固定合同，[295]，我認為[294]在這個範圍內。你認為到2025年底會是多少？這就是我的兩個問題。

Yeah. Thank you, Quirijn. I'll answer your second question first. We have the intention, of course, to increase it. I think we've been very vocal about that. We want to take more cover when markets are high. We don't have a fixed target because a lot will depend on the market and what people are willing to offer us. But we definitely want to grow our fixed contract cover.

是的。謝謝你，奎林。我先回答你的第二個問題。我們當然有意增加這個數字。我認為我們在這方面已經非常明確地表達過意見。市場高企時，我們希望增加避險措施。我們沒有固定目標，因為很大程度上取決於市場以及人們願意提供我們什麼。但我們肯定希望擴大固定合約的覆蓋範圍。

The first question on the tariffs. Apart from the effect on the market in general, with rerouting of ships and what this has had on some of our vessel fixtures, we have actually none or very little impact on tariffs. Our container ships -- container ships are the ones that are more affected are chartered out. So there it is, of course, an issue for our customer, but not directly for us.

第一個問題是關於關稅的。除了船舶改道對整個市場造成的影響，以及這對我們的一些船舶租賃安排造成的影響之外，我們實際上對關稅沒有任何影響或影響很小。我們的貨櫃船－受影響最大的就是那些被租出去的貨櫃船。所以，這當然是客戶的問題，但對我們來說並非直接的問題。

And on the two other segments that would call the United States or would carry goods to and from the United States, it's dry bulk and its oil. And on dry bulk, we do very little to the United States. On oil, as you know, this has been exempted. So in short, the impact of tariffs on us, on CMB.TECH specifically, has been close to zero. Of course, the side effects on the broader market of rerouting of ships and people wanting to have Japanese or Korean built ships to go to China and vice versa for China that we have felt a little bit. But I must say that right now, the effects are very limited.

另外兩條航線分別連接美國和美國，運送貨物，分別是乾散貨和石油。至於乾散貨運輸，我們對美國的影響微乎其微。如您所知，石油方面已獲得豁免。簡而言之，關稅對我們，特別是對 CMB.TECH 的影響幾乎為零。當然，船舶改道對更廣泛的市場也產生了一些副作用，例如人們希望日本或韓國建造的船舶前往中國，反之亦然。我們已經感受到了這些副作用。但我必須說，目前來看，這些影響非常有限。

Does that also mean that the end of tariffs is -- does not have any impact in, let me say, 2026?

這是否也意味著關稅的取消──比如說，在2026年──不會產生任何影響？

Well, Quirijn, I think now I'm talking as a shipping player in general, tariffs are always bad. We prefer not to have any tariffs because then trade can flow freely, and that means more opportunities for our ships to trade. So again, I don't want to create the wrong impression. We are very much in favor of tariffs going away because that creates more trading opportunities for our ships. But if you go on a macro level, what has happened in the United States compared to our fleet, there the impact has been limited.

奎里恩，我覺得我現在是以航運從業人員的身分來說，關稅總是不好的。我們寧願不設關稅，因為這樣貿易就能自由流通，也意味著我們的船隻將有更多貿易機會。所以，我不想給人錯誤的印象。我們非常贊成取消關稅，因為這將為我們的船舶創造更多的貿易機會。但從宏觀層面來看，與我們的艦隊相比，美國的情況受到的影響有限。

My final question is about the, let me say, the order ratio for the VLCC, Suezmax that is now above 12%, as I understand from your graphs. What is the delivery time of these vessels? That's mostly '26, '27. Is there anything to add to that in terms of when it is coming and what the impact might be?

我的最後一個問題是關於VLCC（蘇伊士型油輪）的訂單比率，據我從你們的圖表中了解到，該比率目前已超過12%。這些船隻的交貨時間是多久？那主要是 '26'、'27'。關於何時到來以及可能產生的影響，還有什麼需要補充的嗎？

Yeah. So it's 15% for VLCCs and 20% for Suezmaxes, so it's actually higher than the 12% you mentioned. '26 and '27, we don't see any meaningful capacity that can still be added to the order book. But '28, we are seeing new yards or existing yards with extra capacity still coming on stream. So that number by 2028 could still go up. That's my belief.

是的。所以，超大型油輪的比例是15%，蘇伊士型油輪的比例是20%，實際上高於您提到的12%。 2026年和2027年，我們看不到任何可以添加到訂單簿中的實質運力。但是，在 2028 年，我們看到新的貨場或現有貨場的額外容量仍在投入使用。所以到2028年，這個數字可能還會上升。這是我的看法。

And today, Quirijn, if you would want to jump on these slots, I mean, we had one shipyard in China offering early slots for end '27 and begin '28. But any conventional yard, as you see in the news flow on the specific shipping news, you are starting to talk end '28 if you deliver -- if you order today, beginning '29, even 2030.

奎里恩，今天，如果你想抓住這些機會，我的意思是，中國有一家造船廠提供了 2027 年底和 2028 年初的早期建造名額。但正如你在具體的航運新聞中看到的那樣，任何傳統的船廠，如果你今天訂購，最早也要到 2028 年底才能交付，甚至要到 2029 年開始才能交付，甚至要到 2030 年才能交付。

So shipyards are getting filled up with the current slots. As Alex mentioned, you can have new yards, you can have new capacity coming online as well. But definitely, the traditional delivery time for VLCC and Suezmaxes are quite long now.

所以造船廠目前的船位都快滿了。正如 Alex 所提到的，你可以擁有新的場地，也可以有新的產能投入使用。但可以肯定的是，VLCC 和 Suezmax 型油輪的傳統交貨時間現在相當長。

Thank you. We have two additional questions written. So the Q4 2025 bookings for VLCCs look low versus the market rates. Can you comment on why?

謝謝。我們還寫了兩個問題。因此，2025 年第四季超大型油輪的預訂量與市場價格相比似乎較低。您能解釋一下原因嗎？

It has to do with the trips that our vessels have been doing. And I'm supposing people are referring as well to some of our peers. There's some creative bookkeeping, sometimes load to discharge or discharge to discharge.

這與我們船隻的航行路線有關。我猜大家指的也包括我們的一些同行。有些記帳方式比較隨意，例如裝貨到卸貨，或是卸貨到卸貨。

But there is also a fact that some of our vessels are slightly older and of course, are earning less than more modern vessels that are operated by our peers. We just took delivery of one very modern ship, but we still have some tonnage, which is 13-years old and which is logically then earning a little bit less because the vessels burn more fuel.

但還有一個事實是，我們的一些船隻比較老舊，當然，它們的收益也比同行運營的更現代化的船隻要低。我們剛剛接收了一艘非常現代化的船舶，但我們仍然有一些噸位的船舶，這些船舶已經有 13 年的歷史了，因此它們的收益自然會略低一些，因為這些船舶消耗更多的燃料。

And then the last one, can you discuss the relationship between News and Capes historically? And going forward, will this change go forward?

最後一個問題，您能否談談新聞界和超能力者之間的歷史關係？那麼，這種改變還會持續下去嗎？

Well, the relationship is they move the same cargo. One ship is just 5 meters wider and carries 25,000 to 30,000 tonnes more. Capesizes traditionally have been the workhorse of the fleet, but Newcastlemaxes are taking this over now because it is relatively cheaper just to build a slightly bigger ship than a Capesize of 180,000. So same cargo, same trades.

它們的關係在於它們運送的是同一批貨物。其中一艘船寬 5 米，但載貨量卻多出 25,000 至 30,000 噸。好望角型散裝貨船一直是船隊的主力，但現在紐卡斯爾型散裝貨船正在取代它，因為建造一艘比 180,000 噸的好望角型散裝貨船稍大的船舶相對來說更便宜。所以貨物還是那些，貿易也是一樣。

Perfect. I think that concludes the questions.

完美的。我想問題就到此為止了。

All right. Well, then we will close this earnings call by thanking all of you for having dialed in and looking forward to speaking to you in the following weeks, months or maybe on the next earnings call. Thank you very much.

好的。那麼，我們將結束本次財報電話會議，感謝各位撥入，並期待在接下來的幾週、幾個月或下次財報電話會議上與大家再次交流。非常感謝。

Thank you. Bye-bye.

謝謝。再見。