CMB.TECH NV (CMBT) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to the earnings call of Euronav and CMB.TECH. My name is Alexander Saverys. I'm the CEO of Euronav and CMB.TECH, and I'm joined by our CFO, Ludovic Saverys. We have a couple of topics we would like to touch upon with you today. We will start with our first quarter financials and highlights. We'll then zoom in on the Marine division and a market update per segment, time charter performance and the market outlook, and then we'll close with a conclusion and have time for questions and answers. I'd like to hand over to Ludovic.

大家下午好，早安。歡迎參加 Euronav 和 CMB.TECH 的財報電話會議。我的名字是 Alexander Saverys。我是 Euronav 和 CMB.TECH 的首席執行官，我們的財務長是 Ludovic Saverys。今天我們想和大家討論幾個主題。我們將從第一季的財務狀況和亮點開始。然後，我們將重點介紹海運部門和每個細分市場的市場更新、定期租船表現和市場前景，然後我們將得出結論並留出時間進行問答。我想把麥克風交給 Ludovic。

Yes. Good afternoon, everybody, and thanks for joining this earnings call. We're happy to share with you a strong result for Q1 within Euronav/CMB.TECH. We did net profit on the quarter of $495.2 million, there has been a significant uplift in profit, thanks to the capital gains on some sale of vessels, more notably the second half of the deal with Frontline, which was widely discussed previously. If we take the capital gains out, we have a nice underlying profit of $88 million for the quarter. At the same time, we were able to end the quarter with a very strong liquidity of over $1.2 billion. This is obviously even after the conclusion of the purchase of CMB.TECH which was a highlight we will mention later on.

是的。大家下午好，感謝大家參加本次財報電話會議。我們很高興與您分享 Euronav/CMB.TECH 第一季的強勁業績。我們本季的淨利潤為 4.952 億美元，利潤大幅提升，這得益於部分船舶銷售的資本收益，尤其是之前廣泛討論的與 Frontline 交易的後半部分。如果我們扣除資本收益，本季我們的潛在利潤將達到 8,800 萬美元。同時，我們在本季末擁有超過 12 億美元的強勁流動性。顯然，這甚至是在完成對 CMB.TECH 的收購之後，這是一個亮點，我們稍後會提到。

In our rewarding the shareholder strategy, there was already a distribution announced of $4.57, the Board has concluded based on the strong results of Q1 to propose to another special general meeting in additional a $1.15 distribution per share, which is again going to be a mix of dividends and distribution out of issue premium, as mentioned in the press release. At the same time, the company has also started a share buyback program within the latest months where we have concluded about 8 million shares purchased at around $15.5 which is another reward for our shareholders. On the business side, we have continued to optimize our fleet. We've added 10 -- we've contracted 10 more newbuildings and sold another 3 older tankers as well as launching the inauguration of our first hydrogen production and refueling station in Africa and an announcement of a first hydrogen-powered vessel in Africa.

在我們的股東回報策略中，已經宣布了 4.57 美元的分配，董事會根據第一季度的強勁業績得出結論，向另一次特別股東大會提議每股額外分配 1.15 美元，這將再次是股息和發行溢價分配的混合，正如新聞稿中提到的那樣。與此同時，該公司也在最近幾個月啟動了股票回購計劃，我們以每股 15.5 美元左右的價格回購了約 800 萬股，這對我們的股東來說是另一種回報。在業務方面，我們繼續優化我們的機隊。我們增加了 10 艘——我們簽訂了 10 艘新船建造合同，出售了另外 3 艘舊油輪，並在非洲啟動了我們第一座氫氣生產和加氣站，並宣佈在非洲推出第一艘氫動力船。

Next slide, please. Zooming in on the various Marine divisions. As a repeat, we have Euronav and the tankers, Bocimar dry bulk, Delphis with the container vessels, Bochem on the chemical tankers and Windcat, which is our offshore wind division. The company has about 47 ocean-going vessels on the water with another 45 newbuildings on order, as shown on the slide in the various divisions. On top of that, we have about 53 CTVs, which are small passenger craft bringing the engineers to the [offshore wind] mills and 12 CTVs or CSOVs on order. On the bottom side of the slide, you can see the P&L breakeven in the various divisions as a mix. You can see that the Q1 time charter equivalent, we are well above all the P&L breakevens in all the divisions, which obviously is an explanation for the very profitable quarter we had in Q1.

請看下一張投影片。放大各個海軍陸戰隊部門。再次強調，我們有 Euronav 和油輪、Bocimar 乾散貨、Delphis 和貨櫃船、Bochem 和 Windcat（我們的離岸風電部門）。該公司在水面上擁有約 47 艘遠洋船舶，另有 45 艘新船訂單，如各部門的幻燈片所示。除此之外，我們還有大約 53 艘 CTV，這是一種小型客船，用於將工程師運送到（離岸風電）廠，另外還訂購了 12 艘 CTV 或 CSOV。在投影片的底部，您可以看到各部門的損益平衡情況。您可以看到，就第一季的定期租船合約而言，我們的損益平衡點遠高於所有部門的損益平衡點，這顯然可以解釋我們在第一季的獲利情況非常良好。

In terms of guidance of Q2, we've also highlighted there that on the tanker side, we're still around $46,000 on a roughly booked days in the tanker side, $37,000 on the -- I think this is one we like to highlight. We have a big order book on Newcastlemax super-eco vessels coming on stream that Alex will touch upon, but we are happy to say that we have already booked $37,000 on these fixed days in that quarter. We have a current backlog on contracts accumulated through other divisions of about $2 billion, which is testimony, I think, to the diversification of the compensation strategy we're trying to implement.

就第二季的指導而言，我們還強調，在油輪方面，油輪預訂天數約為 46,000 美元，油輪預訂天數約為 37,000 美元——我想這是我們想要強調的一點。我們有大量即將投入使用的 Newcastlemax 超級環保船舶訂單，Alex 將會談到這一點，但我們很高興地說，我們已經在該季度的這些固定日期預訂了 37,000 美元。我們目前透過其他部門累積的合約積壓金額約為 20 億美元，我認為這證明了我們正在努力實施的薪酬策略多樣化。

Next slide. This is a highlight again for everybody to see what the strength of the platform is in terms of available days and open days for '24, '25, '26, where we respectively have roughly 19,000 total days in '24, 24,000 in '25 and up to 30,000 open days -- total days, sorry, in 2026. The blue bars obviously show what the contract backlog is, this is the way to show that our platform is rightly positioned to enjoy, especially on the tankers, older vessels and the dry bulk Newcastlemaxes to enjoy the spot market whilst on the chemical tankers and containers and more newbuildings that we try to expand our contract backlog.

下一張投影片。這再次向大家展示了該平台在 2024、2025、2026 年可用天數和開放天數方面的實力，其中 2024 年我們總共擁有大約 19,000 天，2025 年為 24,000 天，2026 年開放天數將達到 30,000 天——抱歉，是總天數。藍色條明顯顯示了合約積壓量，這表明我們的平台處於正確的位置，可以享受現貨市場，特別是在油輪、老船和乾散貨紐卡斯爾型船方面，同時在化學品油輪和貨櫃船以及更多新造船方面，我們試圖擴大合約積壓量。

That concludes on the highlights of Q1. As we mentioned in the press release, it has been a very, very busy quarter and even up to now, whereafter the very big profit we were happy to announce. We also want to repeat that we -- the acquisition of CMB.TECH, which was a transformatory step for Euronav/CMB.TECH. The mandatary bid has also closed. So our reference shareholders CMB has opened and closed its mandatory bids. We're happy to say that Euronav and Anglo-Eastern have joined forces on the ship management. We continue to optimize our fleet, as mentioned before, sale of some older vessels, investment in newbuildings. We had the inauguration of our production and refueling station in Africa, which is a pilot project, which is obviously the beginning of a longer story that we want to execute there in securing and producing low-carbon molecules and I think we have proposed a strong reward to shareholders with 2 dividends proposed in the last months and a share buyback initiated.

這就是第一季的亮點。正如我們在新聞稿中提到的，這是一個非常非常繁忙的季度，甚至到目前為止，我們很高興地宣布獲得了巨額利潤。我們也想重申，我們對 CMB.TECH 的收購對於 Euronav/CMB.TECH 來說是一個轉型步驟。強制收購要約也已結束。因此，我們的參考股東 CMB 已開始和結束其強制要約。我們很高興地宣布，Euronav 和 Anglo-Eastern 已在船舶管理方面展開合作。我們繼續優化我們的船隊，如前所述，出售一些老舊船隻，投資新船。我們在非洲啟動了生產和加油站，這是一個試點項目，顯然這只是我們希望在那裡實施的長期計劃的開始，該計劃旨在確保和生產低碳分子，我認為我們已經向股東提出了豐厚的回報，在過去幾個月中我們提出了兩次股息分配方案，並啟動了股票回購。

Now I'll pass on the word to Alex to talk about the various markets.

現在我將把這個消息傳達給亞歷克斯，讓他談論各個市場。

Thank you, Ludovic. I would like to take you now through our various divisions and the various markets in which we operate. Starting by our most important markets still today, which is crude oil and tankers in Euronav. As you can see on the slide, we've highlighted a couple of things that have already been mentioned by Ludovic, but I'd like to take some points a bit more in detail. As a recap, after the sale of our 3 VLCCs, we're left with a trading fleet of 14 VLCCs and 22 Suezmaxes on the water. Our order book is a total of 5 VLCCs, ammonia powered and 4 Eco Suezmaxes. We still have our 2 FSOs, which have a long-term contract, which is contributing nicely to our bottom line. And we have time charter contracts on our Suezmaxes as well, including 2 time charter contracts on our VLCCs.

謝謝你，盧多維克。現在我想帶大家來了解我們的各部門和我們經營的各個市場。從我們今天最重要的市場開始，即 Euronav 的原油和油輪。正如您在幻燈片上看到的，我們強調了 Ludovic 已經提到的幾件事，但我想更詳細地講一下一些要點。回顧一下，在出售我們的 3 艘 VLCC 後，我們的水上貿易船隊還剩下 14 艘 VLCC 和 22 艘蘇伊士型油輪。我們的訂單總計有 5 艘 VLCC（氨動力）和 4 艘 Eco Suezmax 型油輪。我們仍然擁有 2 艘 FSO，它們簽訂了長期合同，這對我們的盈利貢獻很大。我們的蘇伊士型油輪也簽訂了定期租船合同，其中包括兩份 VLCC 的定期租船合約。

When we look at our breakevens and the spot market, you can see it's split up here for VLCCs and Suezmaxes. VLCC breakeven around $26,500 what we achieved in Q1 is $41,700. And on the Suezmaxes, we're around $20,800 with an achieved rate of $58,000. On the time charters, you can also see the numbers at the bottom of the slide. In general, on this market, we are still looking at a relatively low order book even though ordering has picked up, but definitely for '24 and '25 we are still seeing very, very few vessels in the order book. Obviously, we are very much influenced by geopolitical tensions and all the wars and so far, this is actually contributing positively to ton mile demand and to our results.

當我們查看損益平衡點和現貨市場時，您會發現這裡分為超大型油輪 (VLCC) 和蘇伊士型油輪。VLCC 損益平衡點約為 26,500 美元，而我們在第一季實現的損益平衡點為 41,700 美元。蘇伊士型油輪的運價約為 20,800 美元，實際運價為 58,000 美元。在定期租船上，您還可以看到幻燈片底部的數字。總體而言，在這個市場上，儘管訂單量有所回升，但我們仍然看到訂單量相對較低，但對於 24 年和 25 年而言，我們肯定仍然看到訂單中的船隻非常非常少。顯然，我們受到地緣政治緊張局勢和所有戰爭的很大影響，到目前為止，這實際上對噸英里需求和我們的表現產生了積極貢獻。

On this slide, we are basically monitoring the order book, as you can see, the order book has definitely picked up. There's been some good Suezmax ordering activity and some VLCC ordering activity. Historically, it is still quite low. I think for us, what the most important years are is 2024 and 2025, i.e., the near term we will see very few vessels delivering. More in general, the fleet is aging, and that is true for many shipping segments. We are reaching historical highs and by 2026, 25% of the fleet will be older than 20 years, which should normally contribute to positive markets going forward because vessels should leave the fleet.

在這張投影片上，我們基本上在監控訂單簿，正如您所見，訂單簿肯定有所回升。蘇伊士型油輪和超大型油輪的訂購活動都表現良好。從歷史上看，這一水平仍然相當低。我認為對我們來說，最重要的年份是 2024 年和 2025 年，即短期內我們將看到很少的船隻交付。更普遍的是，船隊正在老化，對於許多航運領域來說都是如此。我們正達到歷史最高水平，到 2026 年，25% 的船隊船齡將超過 20 年，這通常會對未來的市場產生積極影響，因為船隻將離開船隊。

Supply/demand outlook and the earnings. That's 2 different graphs just to highlight the same elements that I just mentioned in the previous slide. But just if you look at the historical numbers on VLCCs and Suezes, we are definitely not at the top-top of the market right now, but the numbers are definitely very, very healthy. I'd like to continue on our dry bulk division, which will definitely become the second biggest division in the Euronav/CMB.TECH Group. So far, we have 4 vessels on the water. Very soon, we will take delivery of a fifth vessel. And at the end of the year, there will be 10 ships in total on the water. This is our largest series of vessels on order. It's all being built in Qingdao, Beihai in China and the deliveries are spread between 2023 and 2027.

供需前景和收益。這是兩個不同的圖表，只是為了突出顯示我在上一張投影片中提到的相同元素。但如果你看一下 VLCC 和蘇伊士運河的歷史數據，我們目前肯定沒有處於市場頂峰，但數據肯定非常非常健康。我想繼續我們的乾散貨部門，它肯定會成為 Euronav/CMB.TECH 集團的第二大部門。到目前為止，我們有4艘船在水上。很快，我們將接收第五艘船。預計今年底，我國將有10艘郵輪投入營運。這是我們訂購的最大系列船舶。所有船舶均在中國青島、北海建造，預計於 2023 年至 2027 年之間交付。

We see, in general, in the market growth, the growth numbers are not huge. But if you combine it with the relatively low order book, the supply-demand balance looks very nice. Specifically for our company, we also look at the specifics of our Newcastlemax design. And as you can see on the table to the right, we try to highlight a little bit what a normal 10-year-old Newcastlemax is earning today? And what the kind of premium is we are achieving with our super-eco vessels which has slightly larger cargo intake but also a lower fuel consumption. And you can see that this is contributing very nicely. On the asset side, the newbuilding side, we definitely are in the money on our whole order book. We are hearing rooms now of orders in China for 2028 delivery for Newcastlemaxes around the $80 million mark. So that's again positive for the value of our company.

我們看到，整體而言，在市場成長中，成長數字並不大。但如果將其與相對較低的訂單量結合起來，供需平衡看起來就非常好。具體到我們公司，我們也關注 Newcastlemax 設計的具體細節。正如您在右側表格中看到的，我們嘗試稍微強調一下一艘普通的 10 歲 Newcastlemax 船如今的收入是多少？我們的超級環保船舶具有更大的載貨量，但燃料消耗更低，因此我們實現了什麼樣的溢價？您可以看到，這貢獻很大。在資產方面，新造船方面，我們整個訂單肯定都是獲利的。我們現在聽說中國有訂單稱將於 2028 年交付紐卡斯爾型船，價格約為 8,000 萬美元。所以這對我們公司的價值來說又是正面的。

Order book to fleet, as I said, is low. It's historically low. Again, zooming in on '24 and '25, very little ships coming on stream in general on the dry bulk side, but definitely on the Capesizes and Newcastlemaxes, which is a segment that is of interest to us. And the same thing as with tankers, we see that the average age of the fleet is going up and in 5 to 6 years from now, 1/3 of the fleet will be 20 years and older, again, should be supportive for our results and the market going forward. And here, we try to map the supply-demand outlook specifically for Newcastlemaxes. And on the right, the current Capesize and Newcastlemax earnings historically for the last couple of years. So the average between 1990 and 2019 and then the last couple of years, you can see we are above trends. We had a very strong first quarter of the year, thanks to very good data, very good cargo flows coming out.

正如我所說，船隊的訂單量很低。這是歷史最低水準。再次，放大到 24 年和 25 年，幹散貨船方面投入運營的船舶總體上非常少，但好望角型船和紐卡斯爾型船方面投入運營的船舶絕對很多，這是我們感興趣的一個領域。就像油輪的情況一樣，我們看到船隊的平均船齡正在上升，從現在起的 5 到 6 年後，1/3 的船隊船齡將達到 20 年或以上，這應該會對我們的業績和未來的市場起到支撐作用。在這裡，我們嘗試繪製紐卡斯爾型散裝貨船的供需前景。右側顯示的是過去幾年好望角型船和紐卡斯爾型船的當前獲利情況。因此，從 1990 年至 2019 年以及過去幾年的平均值來看，你可以看到我們高於趨勢水平。由於數據非常好，貨運量也非常好，我們今年第一季的表現非常強勁。

Q1 is usually a weak quarter in the dry bulk markets. This year, it was totally the opposite. So we had some very, very good earnings against all expectations in Q1. Going to our chemical tankers, chemical tanker fleet profile is we have 3 ships on the water today. We are going to take delivery of another during the next couple of months. And then we have 2 vessels delivering at the end of 2025. We have part of our ships that are trading in a chemical tanker pool, you can see that the earnings that we achieved in Q1 were very healthy, $25,500. The rest of our ships are fixed out long-term around the $19,000 market, as you can see on this slide. We see healthy growth numbers. The chemical tanker fleet is very much influenced by the swing factor of MR tankers entering the market or not. MR tankers have very good earnings right now, and so don't see a need to come in and cannibalize the chemical tanker market, which again means chemical tanker rates are much better. So very good supply/demand dynamics on the chemical tanker markets and earnings likewise, are very favorable.

第一季通常是乾散貨市場的淡季。今年的情況卻截然相反。因此，我們在第一季取得了超出所有人預期的非常好的收益。談到我們的化學品油輪，化學品油輪船隊的概況是，今天我們在水上有 3 艘船。我們將在接下來的幾個月內接收另一批產品。我們將有兩艘船於 2025 年底交付。我們的部分船舶在化學品油輪聯營池中進行交易，您可以看到我們在第一季取得的收益非常可觀，為 25,500 美元。正如您在這張幻燈片上看到的，我們其餘船隻的長期租金約為 19,000 美元。我們看到了健康的成長數字。化學品船船隊規模受MR型油輪是否進入市場的搖擺因素影響很大。MR 型油輪目前的獲利狀況非常好，因此沒有必要進入並蠶食化學品油輪市場，這再次意味著化學品油輪的運價要好得多。因此，化學品油輪市場的供需動態非常好，收益也同樣非常有利。

Moving to the containers. There on the market, I think we can say that we are not positive. There is the disruption of the Red Sea right now, which is supporting rates somehow but as soon as that situation would resolve, we believe that rates will go down. Again, there are too many vessels. You can see in the middle of the slide, the supply and trade numbers for 2024, there's a big disconnect, but the amount of ships that are being delivered and demand growth that we see. It is countered a little bit by, of course, the larger ton miles for ships that are avoiding the Red Sea, but we are afraid that once that is resolved, we will see that the market will go down again. It doesn't really affect Euronav and CMB.TECH because all our container vessels that we own are on long-term charters at very good rates.

移至容器。對於市場，我想我們可以說我們並不樂觀。目前紅海局勢動盪，這對運價有一定的支撐作用，但一旦局勢得到解決，我們相信運價將會下降。再一次，船隻太多了。您可以在幻燈片中間看到，2024 年的供應和貿易數據存在很大脫節，但我們看到交付的船舶數量和需求增長。當然，對於避開紅海的船舶來說，更大的噸位英里數可以稍微抵消這一點，但我們擔心，一旦這個問題得到解決，我們就會看到市場再次下滑。這對 Euronav 和 CMB.TECH 並沒有太大影響，因為我們擁有的所有貨櫃船都是以非常優惠的價格長期租賃的。

You can see that we have 2 ships on the water today, there's another 2 coming in the summer and our 1,400 dual fuel ammonia ship is delivering middle of 2026. All these ships are on 10-year charters and the last 1 on 15-year charters. But on the market, I'm afraid that we are not very, very positive for ships that would be spot. Ending with our offshore wind division, Windcats, so what does Windcat do? It brings engineers, electricians, maintenance people to and from the offshore wind parks that are being constructed or are already in operation. We have 2 asset types, our crew transfer vessels which are small boats. And you can see also the earnings are in relation to the size of the ship. Earning good rates actually compared to our breakevens.

您可以看到，我們今天有 2 艘船在水上，夏天還會有另外 2 艘船下水，我們的 1,400 艘雙燃料氨船將於 2026 年中期交付。所有這些船的租期均為 10 年，最後一艘船的租期為 15 年。但在市場上，恐怕我們對現貨船舶的態度並不是十分樂觀。最後以我們的離岸風電部門 Windcats 為例，那麼 Windcat 是做什麼的呢？它將工程師、電工和維護人員運送到正在建造或已經投入運作的離岸風電場。我們有兩種資產類型，我們的船員轉運船是小船。您還可以看到收益與船舶的大小有關。與我們的損益平衡點相比，我們實際上獲得了良好的收益。

And then we have a second asset type, which is our CSOV, our commissioning service operating vessels, first vessel delivering next year. Then we have a series that runs into 2026. Nothing has been fixed on the CSOVs yet, but we did indicate what our breakeven is on our CSOVs. And what the current spot market is expected to be and to generate ownership. So the market definitely today is very supportive for our CSOVs. There were a couple of milestones in Windcats to delivery of a few ships. So we have 53 CTVs on the water now. We had a long-term charter to Eneco that was concluded. We delivered the first hydrogen-powered dual fuel ship in Germany to our JV partners, FRS. And we are seeing, in general, that the market is still relatively strong. We have good work for all our ships.

然後我們還有第二種資產類型，即我們的 CSOV，即我們的調試服務運營船，第一艘船將於明年交付。然後我們有一個系列將持續到 2026 年。CSOV 上尚未修復任何問題，但我們確實指出了我們的 CSOV 的損益兩平點。以及當前現貨市場預期如何以及將產生什麼所有權。因此，今天的市場肯定對我們的 CSOV 非常有利。Windcats 取得了幾個里程碑，交付了幾艘船。我們現在有 53 艘 CTV 在水上。我們與 Eneco 簽訂了長期租船合約。我們向合資夥伴 FRS 交付了德國第一艘氫動力雙燃料船。總體而言，我們看到市場仍然相對強勁。我們所有的船舶都運作良好。

That brings me to the conclusion, there's basically 3 things we wanted to touch upon, one, highlighting our return to shareholders, as was already discussed by Ludovic after the $4.57 per share of dividends that we will approve next week at the AGM. The Board has proposed an additional dividend of $1.15, which will be put to a vote on a special general meeting in July. So a return to shareholders is definitely a big topic for the first half of this year based also on the very good results that we have achieved. Our portfolio, when you look at our delivery schedule, we're probably taking delivery of 1 ship per month, which is a very big program. It keeps our technical teams very busy but so for '24, '25, '26 and even in the first half of '27, we will take delivery of many newbuildings. And as we highlighted, some of them have already been fixed on good long-term time charters.

這讓我得出結論，我們基本上想要談三件事，第一，強調我們對股東的回報，正如 Ludovic 在我們下週的年度股東大會上批准每股 4.57 美元的股息後已經討論過的那樣。董事會提議額外派發 1.15 美元的股息，並將在 7 月的特別股東大會上進行表決。因此，基於我們取得的非常好的業績，回報股東無疑是今年上半年的重要議題。我們的產品組合，當你查看我們的交貨時間表時，我們可能每月交付一艘船，這是一個非常大的項目。這讓我們的技術團隊非常忙碌，因此在 24、25、26 年甚至 27 年上半年，我們將接收許多新造船。正如我們所強調的，其中一些已經簽訂了良好的長期租船合約。

On the decarbonization, all our ships that are on order today bar a few exceptions, are ready to be operated by dual-fuel engines or fitted with few engines so that remains a very key topic in our strategy, the decarbonization. And very important for us as well in our portfolio approach is to increase our contract backlog. We have $2 billion of contract backlog today. We would like by the end of the year to bring that to $3 billion. That's important for us that we show this cash flow and that we have cash flow visibility going forward. Our outlook for '24 and beyond.

關於脫碳，我們今天訂購的所有船舶，除少數例外，都準備由雙燃料發動機驅動或配備少量發動機，因此脫碳仍然是我們戰略中一個非常關鍵的主題。對我們來說，在投資組合方法中，增加合約積壓也非常重要。我們目前有價值 20 億美元的合約積壓。我們希望在今年年底將這一數字提高到 30 億美元。對我們來說，展示現金流並確保未來現金流的可見度非常重要。我們對 24 年及以後的展望。

If you listen to what I just said about the markets, it's difficult to be negative apart on the containers. I think all the segments we are operating in are in good markets. There's always potential headwinds that nobody can see coming. But I would say that supply demand wise in all the major markets we are operating in, it looks very, very strong and not only for '24, but also for 2025. We repeat, and this might be a question that some of you will ask us later on that we want to remain listed on Euronext and NYC and keep these 2 listings in the short to medium term. That ends our presentation, and we will now open the floor for questions.

如果你聽聽我剛才對市場的看法，你會發現很難對貨櫃市場持負面態度。我認為我們經營的所有領域都處於良好的市場。總是存在著誰也無法預見的潛在阻力。但我想說，從我們經營的所有主要市場的供需情況來看，情況都非常強勁，不僅在 2024 年，而且在 2025 年也是如此。我們再說一遍，這可能是你們中的一些人稍後會問我們的問題，我們希望繼續在泛歐交易所和紐約上市，並在短期到中期內保持這兩個上市。我們的演講到此結束，現在我們將開始提問。

Please raise your hand or a flag if you have a question.

如果您有疑問，請舉手或舉旗。

Yes. Luuk Van Beek, you can now ask your question.

是的。Luuk Van Beek，你現在可以提問了。

Yes. A couple of questions. First, on your dividend policy in combination with your leverage so I understand that it's discretionary, but do you have some general indications of what are your main considerations whether to pay a dividend for a future quarter or not? My second question is on your CapEx. You gave a very useful breakdown of the CapEx for the next couple of years, which is around $900 million, $950 million per year. Is that a run rate which we intend to maintain for the coming -- for the near future in view of the strategies that you already put on your organization? Or do you intend to accelerate further and add further construction plans to your planning?

是的。有幾個問題。首先，關於您的股息政策以及您的槓桿率，我理解這是自由裁量的，但您是否有一些一般性的跡象表明，您在考慮是否支付未來季度的股息時主要考慮的是什麼？我的第二個問題是關於你們的資本支出。您對未來幾年的資本支出進行了非常有用的細分，約為每年 9 億美元、9.5 億美元。考慮到您已經為組織制定的策略，我們是否打算在不久的將來保持這樣的運作率？或者您打算進一步加快速度並在規劃中增加更多建設計劃？

Yes. Great. Luuk, thanks. It's Ludovic here. So on the first question, it is tough to give a definitive answer on percentage of profit or other. I think we have a fully discretionary policy because we have a big CapEx program and we have to tailor the dividend policy towards the strength of our balance sheet. Now the markets are good today. So we can and continue to invest and continue to pay dividends. I think this is the point we have right now. Should markets obviously shift or turn, then we will have to adapt that policy. But as from now, we're very happy to reward our shareholders in the way we do.

是的。偉大的。Luuk，謝謝。我是 Ludovic。因此，對於第一個問題，很難就利潤百分比或其他方面給出明確的答案。我認為我們有一個完全自由裁量的政策，因為我們有一個龐大的資本支出計劃，我們必須根據資產負債表的實力來制定股息政策。當前市場情勢良好。因此我們可以繼續投資並繼續支付股息。我想這就是我們現在的觀點。如果市場明顯轉變或轉變，那麼我們就必須調整該政策。但從現在開始，我們非常樂意以我們的方式回報我們的股東。

Towards your second question on the CapEx. And so obviously, we have about $2.9 billion of outstanding CapEx, which is a run rate of $900 million per year. We don't have a policy of keeping that run rate. We need to have good projects. As Alex mentioned, on the tanker newbuilding speculatively ordering, we think the market has topped out in terms of timing of deliveries, but also price, which is becoming quite expensive. On the dry bulk side, prices are still interesting, but the slots available are quite difficult to justify a large expansion on the newbuildings.

關於資本支出的第二個問題。因此顯然，我們有大約 29 億美元的未償還資本支出，即每年 9 億美元的運行率。我們沒有保持該運行率的政策。我們需要有好的項目。正如亞歷克斯所提到的，對於油輪新船投機性訂購，我們認為市場在交貨時間方面已經達到頂峰，但價格也變得相當昂貴。在乾散貨方面，價格仍然很有趣，但可用的艙位很難證明新船的大規模擴張是合理的。

And so per segment, we will look at that. So no, it is not that we have a fixed target for a CapEx program. But yes, we will jump on opportunities should we see consecutive ordering at attractive prices or contracts being written before we're going to do newbuilding orders. That obviously is something. After that decision, obviously, we will tailor the balance sheet towards it. I think the policy of financing 65% of newbuilding prices remains, should we see attractive opportunities and go further. Obviously, we still can start selling some of the older assets, what we call the optimization part of the strategy.

因此，我們將逐一進行研究。所以，我們對資本支出計畫並沒有一個固定的目標。但是的，如果我們看到以有吸引力的價格連續訂購或在我們下新船訂單之前簽訂合同，我們就會抓住機會。這顯然是好事。在做出這項決定後，我們顯然會根據這項決定調整資產負債表。我認為，如果我們看到有吸引力的機會並進一步採取進一步行動，那麼為新船價格提供 65% 融資的政策將會保留。顯然，我們仍然可以開始出售一些舊資產，我們稱之為策略的最佳化部分。

Kristof Samoy would like to ask a question, so you can now unmute and ask your question, please.

Kristof Samoy 想問一個問題，所以您現在可以取消靜音並提出您的問題。

Kristof?

克里斯托夫？

Okay. I was still on mute. First question on the MEPC in last March did anything there happened there that you evaluate the likelihood or the magnitude for a global greenhouse gas levy, has it changed there? Has your view changed? And this is the first question. Then on Namibia. Could you inform us on the final investment decisions on the bunker facility and the production infrastructure plans you have there? And then as a follow-up, the Board of Antwerp has also announced an investment in Namibia, in the Port of Namibia will you be co-investing with them in Namibia? And then finally, could you shed some light on potential long-term contracts for your dry bulk newbuild program that you're taking on?

好的。我仍處於靜音狀態。第一個問題是關於去年 3 月 MEPC 的，那裡發生了什麼事？您是否評估過徵收全球溫室氣體稅的可能性或幅度，那裡的情況有變化嗎？您的看法有改變嗎？這是第一個問題。接下來是納米比亞。您能否告知我們有關燃料庫設施的最終投資決定以及生產基礎設施計劃？然後作為後續行動，安特衛普董事會也宣佈在納米比亞進行投資，您會與他們共同投資納米比亞港口嗎？最後，您能否介紹一下您正在進行的干散貨新建案的潛在長期合約？

Yes. Thanks, Kristof. So on MEPC, as always with the IMO, it goes very, very slowly. We regard the outcome of the last MEPC meeting as positive but not dramatically changing anything in the very short term. It's more about the deadlines that are being put forward. There is at least a plan to come to a conclusion, to come to this famous carbon levy and then also decide on what they're going to do with the money. We, as you know, are very vocal about the fact that we want things to go faster we think shipping should be regulated on a global level, all these regional initiatives like in Europe are making our business a bit more complicated, even though we are happy with what has happened in Europe so far. So MEPC, positive, but not really a game changer yet. So let's watch the next meetings that are coming.

是的。謝謝，克里斯托夫。因此，與國際海事組織一樣，海洋環境保護委員會的進程也總是非常緩慢。我們認為上次 MEPC 會議的結果是正面的，但不會在短期內帶來任何重大改變。這更多的是關於正在提出的最後期限。至少有一個計劃可以得出結論，對這項著名的碳稅進行徵收，然後決定如何使用這筆錢。如您所知，我們非常直言不諱地表示，我們希望事情進展得更快，我們認為航運應該在全球範圍內進行監管，所有這些像歐洲這樣的區域舉措都使我們的業務變得更加複雜，儘管我們對迄今為止在歐洲發生的事情感到滿意。因此，MEPC 的舉措是積極的，但尚未真正改變遊戲規則。讓我們關注即將舉行的接下來的會議。

On Namibia and the bunkering facility. So just to recap what our plans are in Namibia, we have taken an FID and actually have nearly finished the construction on our first production and refueling plant which is about EUR 30 million investment, of which we have EUR 10 million invested and then the rest is our partner, and we get some support from the Federal government of Germany. The next phase would be the ammonia bunkering facility. We are in the midst of the feed, and we are going to take FID towards the end of this year. That's probably a topic we want to touch upon in next calls. So FID definitely have not been taken yet. We're still in the feed phase.

關於納米比亞和加油設施。因此，讓我們回顧一下我們在納米比亞的計劃，我們已經做出了最終投資決定，並且實際上已經接近完成我們的第一個生產和加油工廠的建設，該工廠的投資額約為 3000 萬歐元，其中我們自己投資了 1000 萬歐元，其餘部分來自我們的合作夥伴，我們還得到了德國聯邦政府的一些支持。下一階段將是氨氣加註設施。我們目前正處於供給階段，並將在今年年底前做出 FID。這可能是我們下次通話中想要討論的話題。因此 FID 肯定尚未被採取。我們仍處於供給階段。

Looking at your question on the Board of Antwerp and what they have announced. So let us be clear, what the Board of Antwerp has announced, it's a phased approach to develop a new port to the north of Walvis Bay. So we are already active in the port. What they will do first is do a study once the study is finished, they will then decide whether they take the investments to the next level. And then, of course, we will have discussions with them. I mean, logically, they are our neighbors and partners here in Antwerp. We will discuss whether it would make sense for our bunkering facility and/or different projects to invest in certain parts of the new port that they will build. And then on the coverage on the bulker vessels, everything is spot right now. We see a lot of interest from our end users and customers to charter our ships but we have not concluded anything yet.

查看您關於安特衛普董事會的問題以及他們所宣布的內容。因此，讓我們明確一點，安特衛普委員會已經宣布，將分階段在鯨灣港北部開發一個新港口。因此，我們已經在港口活躍起來了。他們首先要做的是進行研究，研究完成後，他們會決定是否將投資提升到一個新的水平。然後，我們當然會與他們進行討論。我的意思是，從邏輯上講，他們是我們在安特衛普的鄰居和合作夥伴。我們將討論我們的加油設施和/或不同的項目是否有必要投資於他們將要建造的新港口的某些部分。關於散裝貨船的覆蓋範圍，現在一切都很順利。我們看到許多最終用戶和客戶對租用我們的船舶感興趣，但我們尚未達成任何協議。

If anyone else would still like to ask a question please raise your hands. Kristof, did you have another question because you raised your hands I think.

如果還有人想提問，請舉手。克里斯托夫，我想你還有其他問題嗎？因為你舉手了。

Yes, if nobody else is raising questions, then I might squeeze in a few more, if I may. Just in terms of future vessel disposals of older vessels, can we expect a certain segments to be more likely to witness disposal, for instance, with you, would there be a reason to assume that disposal would be rather in VLCCs than Suezmaxes? And secondly, could you shed some light on the CII metrics of your VLCC fleet and Suezmax fleet, please?

是的，如果沒有其他人提出問題，那麼如果可以的話，我可能會再問幾個問題。僅就未來舊船處置而言，我們是否可以預期某些部分更有可能被處置，例如，與您一起，是否有理由假設處置的是 VLCC 而不是蘇伊士型油輪？其次，您能否介紹一下貴公司的 VLCC 船隊和蘇伊士型船隊的 CII 指標？

Okay. So on the disposals, we have been very clear that if we see good prices for older tonnage, we will probably look at selling them and then recycling the cash and invest in more modern ships. What we just did with the 3 VLCCs, what we call our in types that we recently disposed of. That is clearly recycling of money. I mean, this is something we can reinvest in further new buildings. Is there a specific asset class where we will focus on? No, but you'll just take the age profile of the current Euronav/CMB.TECH fleet. The obvious candidates are more in the Euronav Tanker division than in other divisions. But whether it's going to be a VLCC or a Suezmax will depend on the price, the buyer and the opportunity that presents itself. On CII, Kristof, I would suggest that you asked me this question on an e-mail that I can refer to my technical people on the profile of our fleet. I'm sure we have that data, but I don't have it at hand right now. So apologies, I can't give you an answer in this call.

好的。因此，在處置問題上，我們非常清楚，如果我們看到舊噸位船舶的價格不錯，我們可能會考慮出售它們，然後回收現金並投資於更現代化的船舶。我們剛剛對 3 艘 VLCC 進行了處理，這些 VLCC 是我們最近處理掉的類型。這明顯是資金循環利用。我的意思是，我們可以將其再投資於新的建築。是否有一個特定的資產類別值得我們關注？不，但您只需採用當前 Euronav/CMB.TECH 船隊的年齡概況。與其他部門相比，Euronav Tanker 部門的明顯候選人更多。但究竟是超大型油輪還是蘇伊士型油輪，將取決於價格、買家和出現的機會。關於 CII，克里斯托夫，我建議您透過電子郵件向我詢問這個問題，這樣我就可以向我的技術人員介紹我們船隊的概況。我確信我們有這些數據，但我現在手邊沒有。所以很抱歉，我無法在這次通話中給您答案。

Okay. And then maybe another question, if I may. I mean we read a lot on -- from different sources that old majors are loosening age constraints for vessels, they charter. Can you kind of confirm this from practicing in -- from your chartering days?

好的。如果可以的話，我可能還想問另一個問題。我的意思是，我們從不同的來源了解到，老牌航運巨頭正在放寬他們所租賃船舶的年齡限制。您能否從您從事租船工作的經驗中證實這一點？

Well, I cannot speak for specific old majors, but in general, I would say you are right. That is correct. It is typical of strong markets when markets are very high, our customers loosen their self-imposed regulations on age because they just don't want the prices to go too high for modern vessels.

嗯，我不能代表具體的老專業發言，但總的來說，我認為你是對的。沒錯。這是市場強勁的典型特徵，當市場價格非常高時，我們的客戶會放鬆對船齡的自我規定，因為他們不希望現代船舶的價格過高。

Quirijn Mulder, you can now unmute and ask your questions, please. Quirijn, you are still on mute, so.

Quirijn Mulder，您現在可以取消靜音並提出您的問題。Quirijn，你仍然處於靜音狀態，所以。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes, we can hear you perfect.

是的，我們能清楚地聽到您的聲音。

Okay, sorry about that. I wanted to start by asking about FSOs how do those fit in your overall portfolio approach? They're still contracted for a few years, but given their nature, do you view them as noncore?

好的，很抱歉。我想先問一下 FSO，它們如何融入您的整體投資組合方法？他們的合約還有幾年，但考慮到他們的性質，您是否認為他們是非核心球員？

It's a very good question. Well, first and foremost, these are assets that we've had in our portfolio for a very, very long time, and we are very satisfied with the quality of the assets and the contract coverage. Going forward, we don't know what will happen to these assets. We have not made up our mind. But we are definitely not against these assets per se. We will just see what happens when the contracts comes to expiry and then what we can find as a new business. So to answer your question simply, it is not that we are gung ho at selling them per se, or holding on to them per se. We will just look at the opportunities that present themselves. It's true, of course, the assets are slightly older, but as you know, they have been totally reconverted. So reconversions can happen and then extend the life of these assets.

這是一個非常好的問題。首先，這些資產是我們投資組合中持有很長時間的資產，我們對這些資產的品質和合約覆蓋範圍非常滿意。展望未來，我們不知道這些資產會發生什麼事。我們還沒有下定決心。但我們絕對不反對這些資產本身。我們只需觀察合約到期時會發生什麼，然後我們就能發現什麼新業務。因此，簡單地回答你的問題，我們並不是熱衷於銷售它們本身，或持有它們本身。我們只會注意出現的機會。當然，這些資產確實有些舊了，但正如你所知，它們已經完全恢復原狀。因此可以進行重新轉換，從而延長這些資產的使用壽命。

That's helpful. I also wanted to ask about the CSO base. You mentioned they are still open. And I was wondering what kind of term contracts are available? I mean, in the current market conditions?

這很有幫助。我還想問一下 CSO 基礎。您提到他們仍然營業。我想知道有哪些類型的定期合約？我的意思是，在目前的市場條件下？

That's a very good question. There's 2 types of contracts that you can find for CSOVs, either very short-term contracts during the construction phase of offshore wind parks. So say, 3 months, 6 months, maybe 9 months, or much longer-term contracts, 5 even to 10 years for either very large construction works that last much longer or for the maintenance of the parks. We are looking at both, our inclination so far is that the long-term contracts are very low margin. It's usually with big majors that do these tenders. So our preference would be right now to more go for some shorter-term contracts unless we see a very good rate that gives us a good return. Luuk has a question.

這是一個非常好的問題。您可以找到兩種類型的 CSOV 合同，一種是海上風電場建設階段的短期合約。比如說，3 個月、6 個月、也許 9 個月，或者更長期的合同，5 年甚至 10 年，用於持續時間更長的大型建築工程或公園的維護。我們正在考慮這兩種情況，到目前為止，我們傾向於認為長期合約的利潤率非常低。通常都是由大型專業公司來進行這些招標。因此，我們現在更傾向於簽訂一些短期合同，除非我們看到一個能給我們帶來良好回報的非常好的利率。Luuk 有一個問題。

Yes. Luuk, you may unmute please.

是的。Luuk，請取消靜音。

Yes. I have 2 follow-ups on your disclosure. Would it be possible to give a break in the future of the revenues and EBIT by segment because they are such different markets. And also to give a bit more disclosure about the order backlog that you talked about of $2 billion. So in which segments, what's the duration and so on?

是的。我對您的披露有 2 個後續問題。由於市場差異很大，未來是否有可能按細分市場細分收入和息稅前利潤？另外，請進一步揭露您提到的 20 億美元訂單積壓情況。那麼在哪些片段中，持續時間是多久等等？

Look, I suggest I'll give you the answer that we give to other people that are asking this from the analyst community, reach out to Joris Daman and my broader Ludovic, and they will be able to answer that question. Okay, unless anybody else has a question. Quirijn, you still have a question or...?

聽著，我建議我會給你我們給分析師社群中其他提出這個問題的人的答案，聯絡 Joris Daman 和我的更廣泛的 Ludovic，他們將能夠回答這個問題。好的，除非其他人有疑問。Quirijn，您還有問題嗎？

No.

不。

Okay. Then I would like to thank you for taking the time and joining us in this earnings call. Thank you for your questions and looking forward to seeing you and speaking to you in the very short future. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

好的。那麼我想感謝您抽出時間參加我們的財報電話會議。感謝您的提問，期待在不久的將來與您見面並交談。非常感謝。再見。

Thank you.

謝謝。