Ciena Corp (CIEN) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to Ciena's fiscal second-quarter 2025 financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Ciena 2025 財年第二季財務業績電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Gregg Lampf, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給投資者關係副總裁 Gregg Lampf。請繼續。

Thank you, Michael. Good morning, and welcome to Ciena's 2025 fiscal second quarter conference call. On the call today is Gary Smith, President and CEO; and Jim Moylan, CFO. Scott McFeely, Executive Adviser, is also with us for Q&A. In addition to this call and the press release, we posted to the Investors section of our website an accompanying investor presentation that reflects this discussion as well as certain highlighted items from the quarter.

謝謝你，麥可。早上好，歡迎參加 Ciena 2025 財年第二季電話會議。今天參加電話會議的有總裁兼執行長加里史密斯 (Gary Smith) 和財務長吉姆莫伊蘭 (Jim Moylan)。執行顧問 Scott McFeely 也與我們一起進行問答。除了此次電話會議和新聞稿之外，我們還在我們網站的「投資者」部分發布了一份投資者介紹，其中反映了此次討論以及本季度的一些重點事項。

Our comments today speak to our recent performance, our view on current market dynamics and drivers of our business as well as a discussion of our financial outlook. Today's discussion includes certain adjusted or non-GAAP measures of Ciena's results of operations. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to our GAAP results is included in today's press release.

我們今天的評論談到了我們最近的表現、我們對當前市場動態和業務驅動力的看法以及對我們財務前景的討論。今天的討論包括對 Ciena 經營業績的某些調整後或非 GAAP 衡量指標。今天的新聞稿中包含了這些非 GAAP 指標與我們的 GAAP 結果的對帳。

Before turning the call over to Gary, I'll remind you that during this call, we'll be making certain forward-looking statements. Such statements, including our guidance, commentary and market dynamics and discussion of our opportunities and strategy are based on current expectations, forecasts, and assumptions regarding the company and its markets, which include risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the statements discussed today.

在將電話轉給加里之前，我要提醒您，在這次通話中，我們將做出一些前瞻性的陳述。這些聲明，包括我們的指導、評論和市場動態以及對我們的機會和策略的討論，均基於對公司及其市場的當前預期、預測和假設，其中包括可能導致實際結果與今天討論的聲明存在重大差異的風險和不確定性。

Assumptions relating to our outlook, whether mentioned on this call are included in the investor presentation that we'll post shortly after, are an important part of such forward-looking statements, and we encourage you to consider them. Our forward-looking statements should also be viewed in the context of the risk factors detailed in our most recent 10-K and 10-Q, which we expect to file with the SEC by June 12. Ciena assumes no obligation to update the information discussed in this conference call, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

與我們展望相關的假設，無論是否在本次電話會議中提及，或是否包含在我們即將發布的投資者簡報中，均構成此類前瞻性陳述的重要組成部分，我們建議您予以考慮。我們的前瞻性陳述也應結合我們最新的10-K和10-Q報告中詳述的風險因素進行解讀，我們預計將於6月12日前向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交這些報告。Ciena 不承擔更新本次電話會議中討論的資訊的義務，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。

As always, we will allow for as much Q&A as possible today, though ask that you limit yourselves to one question and follow up. With that, I'll turn the call over to Gary.

像往常一樣，今天我們將盡可能多地進行問答，但請您將問題限制在一個範圍內，然後再進行跟進。說完這些，我將把電話轉給加里。

Thanks, Gregg. And today, we delivered strong fiscal second quarter results, including revenue of $1.13 billion, which is at the high end of our guidance and demonstrates the strength both of our strategy and our execution. This performance reflects continued strong demand across all customer segments, geographic regions, and our diversified portfolio. Notably, revenue from cloud providers stood out as a key driver in Q2.

謝謝，格雷格。今天，我們公佈了強勁的第二財季業績，其中營收達到 11.3 億美元，這處於我們預期的高位，證明了我們戰略和執行力的強勁。這項業績反映了所有客戶群、地理區域和我們多元化投資組合持續強勁的需求。值得注意的是，來自雲端供應商的收入成為第二季的關鍵驅動力。

Specifically, we achieved record direct cloud provider revenue in Q2 that comprised 38% of total revenue, growing 85% year over year and reaching more than $400 million in a single quarter for the first time. Really highlighting the accelerating investments in AI infrastructure and our leadership in addressing this demand.

具體來說，我們在第二季實現了創紀錄的直接雲端供應商收入，佔總收入的 38%，年增 85%，並且首次在單季達到 4 億美元以上。真正凸顯了對人工智慧基礎設施的加速投資以及我們在滿足這一需求方面的領導地位。

Indeed, three of our top five customers this quarter were cloud providers, underscoring their sustained investments in AI infrastructure and network expansion. Over the past quarter, market dynamics have not only validated our previous assumptions about customer network infrastructure spend but have also reflected an accelerating demand environment that continues to ramp and exceed our expectations. And we believe this strength is differentiated for us as the market continues to evolve in our direction.

事實上，本季我們的五大客戶中有三個是雲端供應商，這突顯了他們對人工智慧基礎設施和網路擴展的持續投資。在過去的一個季度中，市場動態不僅驗證了我們先前對客戶網路基礎設施支出的假設，而且還反映出需求環境的加速成長，這種成長持續超出了我們的預期。我們相信，隨著市場繼續朝著我們的方向發展，這種優勢對我們來說是與眾不同的。

Accordingly, orders in the quarter were again significantly greater than revenue. And notably, we are on track for cloud provider orders to double in fiscal 2025 over last year, as we benefit from the breadth and depth of our customer base in this critical segment. And I think this outstanding performance showcases our substantial market penetration in the AI-driven networking space, where we remain a very trusted partner for a wide range of network operators who are investing to scale their infrastructure for high-speed data center and cloud connectivity, including for emerging applications and use cases.

因此，本季的訂單量再次大大高於收入。值得注意的是，由於我們受益於此關鍵領域的客戶群的廣度和深度，我們預計在 2025 財年實現雲端提供者訂單比去年翻一番。我認為這一出色的表現證明了我們在人工智慧驅動的網路領域的巨大市場滲透力，我們仍然是眾多網路營運商值得信賴的合作夥伴，他們正在投資擴展其基礎設施，以實現高速數據中心和雲端連接，包括新興的應用和用例。

To address this growing demand, we are deploying the entirety of our portfolio, including optical systems and interconnects, routing and switching solutions, software, and services. And as the global leader in high-speed connectivity, our WaveLogic technology remains a cornerstone of our competitive advantage. Specifically, our WaveLogic 6 Extreme, 1.6T WAN technology maintains at least an 18- to 24-month competitive lead in the market.

為了滿足這一日益增長的需求，我們正在部署我們的全部產品組合，包括光學系統和互連、路由和交換解決方案、軟體和服務。作為高速連結領域的全球領導者，我們的 WaveLogic 技術仍然是我們競爭優勢的基石。具體來說，我們的 WaveLogic 6 Extreme、1.6T WAN 技術在市場上保持至少 18 至 24 個月的競爭領先地位。

As our photonic line systems continue to be the de facto industry standard. Demand for our reconfigurable line system, RLS, continues to increase. And our interconnect business is also ramping with tremendous activity and demand, including new awards with three additional major cloud providers this quarter alone. This momentum reflects the growing adoption of and our demand for our 400ZR and 800ZR coherent pluggable solutions as well as our 1.6T coherent light solution, which we will be sampling by the end of calendar 2025, with commercial availability in the first half of calendar 2026.

我們的光子線路系統繼續成為事實上的行業標準。對我們的可重構線路系統 RLS 的需求持續增加。我們的互連業務也因龐大的活動和需求而蓬勃發展，僅本季就與另外三家主要雲端供應商簽訂了新合約。這一勢頭反映了我們的 400ZR 和 800ZR 相干可插拔解決方案以及 1.6T 相干光解決方案的日益普及和需求，我們將在 2025 年底前對這些解決方案進行抽樣，並於 2026 年上半年實現商業化。

As cloud providers expand their data center architectures with scale-up and scale-out AI-related deployments, we are broadening and deepening our relationships with them. In fact, we're addressing new data center-related applications, a strategy that we've spoken publicly about over the last few months and where we recently secured two wins. The first is a very strategic win, and it's for an application involving the connection of regional GPU clusters, which is something the industry has been talking about for some time.

隨著雲端供應商透過擴大和擴展與 AI 相關的部署來擴展其資料中心架構，我們正在擴大和深化與他們的關係。事實上，我們正​​在解決與新資料中心相關的應用程序，這是我們在過去幾個月公開談論過的一項策略，我們最近獲得了兩項勝利。第一個勝利是非常具有戰略意義的勝利，它涉及區域 GPU 集群的連接應用，這也是業界已經討論過一段時間的事情。

For context, to support the massive scale and power requirements of AI training and inference traffic, data centers must become more distributed. And historically, these traffic flows were primarily inside the data center, but they are now across multiple data centers over greater distances that require high-capacity, low-latency links. With that, we are excited to report that our coherent 800-gig pluggables and RLS photonics have been selected by a global cloud provider, who is investing in geographically distributed regional GPU clusters.

就背景而言，為了支援人工智慧訓練和推理流量的大規模和功率需求，資料中心必須變得更加分散。從歷史上看，這些流量主要在資料中心內部流動，但現在它們跨越更遠距離的多個資料中心，需要高容量、低延遲的連結。我們很高興地報告，我們的相干 800gig 可插拔產品和 RLS 光子學已經被全球雲端供應商選中，該供應商正在投資地理分佈的區域 GPU 叢集。

We will start to recognize revenue from this incremental opportunity later this fiscal year and ramping into 2026. And as one of the first vendors to address this application and with our coherent optical technology ideally suited for this type of connectivity, we expect to see more of these types of opportunities emerge, as cloud providers evolve their data center network architectures to support their AI strategies.

我們將於本財年稍後開始確認來自此增量機會的收入，並持續至 2026 年。作為首批解決此應用問題的供應商之一，我們的相干光學技術非常適合這種類型的連接，隨著雲端供應商不斷發展其資料中心網路架構以支援其人工智慧策略，我們預計會看到更多此類機會的出現。

The second win is for a focused application inside the data center for out-of-band network management. These networks operate separately from the main data traffic network and provide remote access to monitor and manage data center systems. We recently worked with a global cloud provider to codevelop a solution, based on our existing technologies, and this is designed to significantly reduce the complexities of these networks and streamline the management of its large-scale data center operations.

第二個勝利是針對資料中心內部的帶外網路管理的重點應用。這些網路獨立於主資料流量網路運行，並提供遠端存取以監控和管理資料中心系統。我們最近與一家全球雲端供應商合作，基於我們現有的技術共同開發解決方案，旨在顯著降低這些網路的複雜性並簡化其大型資料中心營運的管理。

Now turning to service providers. It's now been several quarters of an improving trend line with service providers as their network investments in high-speed infrastructure become more durable and sustainable following a long period of underinvestment. We are seeing growth and strength across the board with service providers in core optical transport, routing and switching, software and services to address the connectivity needs of their own customer base and to support cloud providers growing bandwidth demands.

現在轉向服務提供者。經過長期投資不足之後，服務提供者對高速基礎設施的網路投資變得更加持久和可持續，因此，服務提供者的趨勢已經連續幾個季度呈現改善趨勢。我們看到，核心光傳輸、路由和交換、軟體和服務領域的服務供應商正在全面成長和增強，以滿足其自身客戶群的連接需求，並支援雲端供應商不斷增長的頻寬需求。

As a result, our business with Tier 1 North American service providers gained momentum in Q2. And we also had several new customer wins in both the Americas and international regions, including Europe. This momentum is driven in part by new fiber builds as well as MOFN. In fact, all the record performance of direct DCI in the quarter, we also achieved an all-time record for MOFN activity in the first half of fiscal 2025, which further demonstrates really how we're supporting the strong nexus between service providers and cloud providers.

因此，我們與北美一級服務提供者的業務在第二季度獲得了發展勢頭。我們也在美洲和包括歐洲在內的國際地區贏得了幾位新客戶。這一勢頭部分是由新光纖建設以及 MOFN 推動的。事實上，本季直接 DCI 的所有創紀錄表現，我們也在 2025 財年上半年創下了 MOFN 活動的歷史新高，這進一步證明了我們如何支持服務提供商和雲端提供商之間的緊密聯繫。

I also want to touch on the momentum of our software business. I'll start with the Navigator Network Control Suite, which is our multilayer domain controller and this provides a comprehensive set of capabilities to help network operators plan, provision, monitor, and troubleshoot their networks. Orders for Navigator increased significantly in the first half of fiscal 2025 by more than 30% year over year, driven by increased investment and the unique capabilities of this micro services-based and differentiated platform.

我還想談談我們的軟體業務的發展勢頭。我將從 Navigator 網路控制套件開始，它是我們的多層網域控制器，它提供了一套全面的功能來幫助網路營運商規劃、配置、監控和排除網路故障。受投資增加以及該基於微服務的差異化平台的獨特功能的推動，Navigator 的訂單在 2025 財年上半年大幅增長，同比增長超過 30%。

Similarly, Blue Planet had a record performance in Q2, achieving its highest ever quarterly revenue at just under $30 million. This milestone reflects the success of our deliberate transformation efforts over the past couple of years, positioning Blue Planet to better serve our customers' digital transformation needs and journey. Today, Blue Planet is at the leading edge of several large provider projects, particularly as the industry incorporates agentic AI and data-driven intelligence to drive transformation.

同樣，藍色星球在第二季的業績也創下了紀錄，達到了歷史最高季度收入，接近 3,000 萬美元。這一里程碑反映了我們過去幾年精心轉型的努力所取得的成功，使藍色星球能夠更好地滿足客戶的數位轉型需求和旅程。如今，藍色星球在多個大型供應商專案中處於領先地位，尤其是在該行業採用代理人工智慧和數據驅動智慧來推動轉型的情況下。

Before I turn the call over to Jim, I'd summarize by saying that we are very encouraged by the strong activity across all segments of our business. In the context of favorable market dynamics and an accelerating demand environment, we have strong momentum that we are confident will drive continued growth.

在我將電話轉給吉姆之前，我想總結一下，我們對我們業務各部門的強勁活動感到非常鼓舞。在良好的市場動態和不斷加速的需求環境下，我們擁有強勁的發展勢頭，有信心推動持續成長。

In particular, we are very pleased with the validation from customers that we can strategically expand our market opportunity inside and around the data center, where high-speed connectivity is absolutely critical. In the short term, and as we've been talking about for some time, we are now seeing more AI traffic come out of the data center for training, as I mentioned earlier, and general monetization that's driving cloud traffic. An asset of technologies is ideally positioned to address these connectivity needs at scale.

特別是，我們非常高興地得到客戶的認可，他們認可我們可以策略性地擴大資料中心內部和周圍的市場機會，而高速連接在這些領域絕對至關重要。從短期來看，正如我們一段時間以來一直在談論的那樣，我們現在看到更多的人工智慧流量從資料中心流出用於訓練，正如我之前提到的，以及推動雲端流量的一般貨幣化。技術資產非常適合大規模滿足這些連接需求。

With that, Jim, can you please provide us with updates on our financial performance in Q2 as well as our outlook.

吉姆，您能否向我們提供有關我們第二季度財務業績以及展望的最新資訊？

Thank you, Gary. Good morning, everyone. As Gary noted, we delivered strong fiscal second quarter results. Total revenue in Q2 was $1.13 billion. This included 2 10%-plus customers, one cloud provider and one service provider.

謝謝你，加里。大家早安。正如加里所說，我們第二季的財務業績表現強勁。第二季總營收為 11.3 億美元。其中包括 2 個 10% 以上的客戶、一個雲端提供者和一個服務提供者。

Adjusted gross margin was 41%, in line with our guidance, driven by product mix, and to a lesser extent, the cost of tariffs. During the quarter, we navigated a new and in the early days, a rapidly changing US tariff environment. We responded in real time with mitigation strategies to minimize the impact both on our customers and our P&L. However, as a result of the dynamic conditions as well as the need to adjust our billing systems and our customer systems, we absorbed a net impact to our bottom line in the mid-single-digit millions of dollars in the quarter.

調整後的毛利率為 41%，符合我們的預期，主要受產品組合以及關稅成本（在較小程度上）的影響。在本季度，我們應對了一個新的、並且在初期迅速變化的美國關稅環境。我們即時採取緩解策略，以盡量減少對我們的客戶和損益的影響。然而，由於動態條件以及需要調整我們的計費系統和客戶系統，我們在本季承受了數百萬美元的淨利潤影響。

Adjusted operating expense in Q2 was $369 million. This was higher than expected, driven entirely by higher incentive compensation associated with very strong order performance in the quarter and our overall financial performance in the first half of the year, both trends which are expected to continue. Absent this higher incentive comp, OpEx is on our plan and our guidance.

第二季調整後的營運費用為 3.69 億美元。這一數字高於預期，完全是由於本季度訂單表現非常強勁以及我們上半年整體財務表現帶來的更高的激勵薪酬，預計這兩種趨勢都將持續下去。如果沒有這種更高的激勵措施，營運支出就在我們的計畫和指導範圍內。

With regard to profitability measures in Q2, we delivered adjusted operating margin of 8.2%, adjusted net income of $61 million and adjusted EPS of $0.42. In addition, we generated $157 million in cash from operations. Adjusted EBITDA was $117 million.

就第二季的獲利指標而言，我們調整後的營業利潤率為8.2%，調整後的淨收入為6,100萬美元，調整後的每股盈餘為0.42美元。此外，我們營運產生的現金流為1.57億美元。調整後的 EBITDA 為 1.17 億美元。

Finally, we ended the quarter with approximately $1.35 billion in cash and investments. During the quarter, we repurchased approximately 1.2 million shares for $84 million. We are on track for the repurchase of approximately $330 million total in this fiscal year.

最後，我們在本季結束時擁有約 13.5 億美元的現金和投資。本季度，我們以 8,400 萬美元回購了約 120 萬股。我們預計在本財年回購總計約 3.3 億美元的資產。

Some additional highlights from the quarter. We had an excellent quarter in Optical. As Gary mentioned, our WaveLogic technology remains a strong competitive advantage. We added 24 new WaveLogic 6 Extreme customers in Q2, bringing the total to 49 within just two quarters of general availability. WaveLogic 5 Extreme and Nano also performed well with continued adoption among cloud customers and service providers. We added 10 new WaveLogic 5 Extreme customers in Q2 for a total of 344 customers overall. WaveLogic 5 Nano pluggables continued ramping, now shipping to 178 customers, including both cloud providers and service providers.

本季度的一些其他亮點。我們在光學領域度過了一個出色的季度。正如 Gary 所提到的，我們的 WaveLogic 技術仍然具有強大的競爭優勢。我們在第二季增加了 24 個新的 WaveLogic 6 Extreme 客戶，在全面上市後的短短兩個季度內，客戶總數就達到了 49 個。WaveLogic 5 Extreme 和 Nano 也表現良好，並持續受到雲端客戶和服務供應商的採用。我們在第二季增加了 10 個新的 WaveLogic 5 Extreme 客戶，總客戶數達到 344 個。WaveLogic 5 Nano 可插拔產品持續成長，目前已向 178 家客戶出貨，包括雲端供應商和服務供應商。

Overall, our momentum with coherent pluggable optics was strong in Q2, and we remain on target to double our year-over-year revenue to at least $150 million in fiscal 2025. Pluggables are proving to be a great complement to our Optical Systems business. I also want to highlight the performance of our Routing and Switching business. This is being driven by AI momentum and an improving service provider environment.

整體而言，我們在第二季的相干可插拔光學元件發展勢頭強勁，我們仍有望在 2025 財年實現營收年比翻番，至少達到 1.5 億美元。事實證明，可插拔產品對我們的光學系統業務來說是一個很好的補充。我還想強調一下我們的路由和交換業務的表現。這是由人工智慧的發展勢頭和不斷改善的服務提供者環境所推動的。

In Q2, we secured a significant win with a Tier 1 service provider in India, where we displaced a major competitor in the access domain. We also added eight new broadband customers in Q2. Additionally, we introduced the first 800-gig router to our coherent routing portfolio, and we expanded our flagship Wave router family with WaveLogic 6 Extreme capabilities, making it the industry's first generally available 1.6-terabit coherent router.

在第二季度，我們與印度一家一級服務供應商取得了重大勝利，我們在接入領域取代了一個主要競爭對手。我們還在第二季增加了 8 個新的寬頻客戶。此外，我們在相干路由產品組合中推出了首款 800 千兆路由器，並透過 WaveLogic 6 Extreme 功能擴展了我們的旗艦 Wave 路由器系列，使其成為業界首款普遍使用的 1.6 太比特相干路由器。

All of this performance confirms that we have the right portfolio with best-in-class technology for our customers, who demand the highest performing connectivity for today's dynamic demand environment. With that, let's turn to guidance.

所有這些表現都證明，我們擁有適合客戶的具有一流技術的產品組合，客戶要求在當今動態的需求環境中提供最高性能的連接。有了這些，我們來看看指導。

Given recent developments, it appears that the tariff environment will continue to be dynamic. For purposes of our guidance, however, we are assuming that the current tariff structure does not change. Under this current tariff structure, we expect the total cost of tariffs to be approximately $10 million per quarter. We expect to mitigate most of the quarterly impact as compared to Q2. Therefore, we believe the net effect to our bottom line in future quarters will be immaterial.

從最近的發展來看，關稅環境似乎將繼續保持動態。然而，為了我們的指導目的，我們假設目前的關稅結構不會改變。在目前的關稅結構下，我們預計每季關稅總成本約為 1000 萬美元。與第二季度相比，我們預計本季的大部分影響將減輕。因此，我們認為，未來幾季對我們的底線的淨影響將並不大。

So for the fiscal third quarter, we expect to deliver revenue in a range of $1.13 billion to $1.21 billion. We expect Q3 adjusted gross margin to be roughly in line with Q2. And we expect adjusted operating expense to be approximately $370 million to $375 million. Again, this includes higher incentive comp. Base OpEx is on our plan and on our guide.

因此，我們預計第三財季的營收將在 11.3 億美元至 12.1 億美元之間。我們預計第三季調整後的毛利率將與第二季大致持平。我們預計調整後的營運費用約為 3.7 億美元至 3.75 億美元。再次，這包括更高的激勵補償。基本營運支出已包含在我們的計劃和指南中。

While the geopolitical environment has fluctuated quite a bit during the past few months, strong demand dynamics continue to drive momentum in our business. As a result, we have increased visibility and are in a position to update all three elements of our annual guide. We now expect to deliver revenue growth of approximately 14% for fiscal 2025.

儘管過去幾個月地緣政治環境波動很大，但強勁的需求動態仍持續推動我們的業務發展。因此，我們提高了知名度，並能夠更新年度指南的所有三個要素。我們現在預計 2025 財年的營收將成長約為 14%。

At the same time, given the mix of products, including a higher proportion of newly introduced solutions and the RLS, all of which are still ramping, we expect annual gross margins at the lower end of our previously assumed range of 42% to 44% for fiscal '25. And with respect to OpEx, we expect to be on plan and guide for our base OpEx for the fiscal year.

同時，考慮到產品組合，包括更高比例的新推出的解決方案和 RLS，所有這些產品仍在不斷增長，我們預計 25 財年的年毛利率將處於我們先前假設的 42% 至 44% 範圍的低端。關於營運支出，我們預計將按照計劃和指南制定本財政年度的基本營運支出。

However, given our strong financial performance, particularly on orders and revenue, we expect an increase in incentive compensation of approximately $10 million per quarter. With that, we now expect operating expense to average $360 million to $370 million per quarter for the year.

然而，鑑於我們強勁的財務表現，特別是訂單和收入，我們預計每季激勵薪酬將增加約 1000 萬美元。因此，我們預計全年每季的營運費用平均為 3.6 億至 3.7 億美元。

Michael will now take questions from the sell-side analysts.

麥可現在將回答賣方分析師的問題。

Michael, before we do that, I'd just like to take a moment to acknowledge and recognize Jim's upcoming retirement. Given today will be last earnings call with us all. And as you know, for the past 18 years and an incredible 70 earnings calls, Jim has been an incredible partner and member of our executive team with a lengthy list of significant contributions to the growth and the performance of our business.

邁克爾，在我們這樣做之前，我想花點時間來確認並認可吉姆即將退休。因為今天將是我們最後一次召開收益電話會議。如您所知，在過去的 18 年和令人難以置信的 70 次財報電話會議中，吉姆一直是我們出色的合作夥伴和執行團隊成員，為我們的業務成長和業績做出了許多重大貢獻。

We will certainly miss Jim's leadership and his wealth of knowledge, but importantly as well, and I think I speak for all of you who know him on the call as well, we'll miss his wit, his warmth, and his humor, that makes working with him such a joy. So while we'll be sad to see him go later this summer, we all wish him the very best in his well-deserved retirement.

我們當然會懷念吉姆的領導能力和豐富的知識，但同樣重要的是，我想我代表所有在電話中認識他的人說，我們會懷念他的機智、他的熱情和他的幽默，這些讓與他一起工作成為一種快樂。因此，儘管我們很遺憾看到他在今年夏天晚些時候離開，但我們都祝他在當之無愧的退休生活中一切順利。

With that, we really will open up the call from the sell-side analysts, please. Thank you, Michael.

這樣，我們就可以真正開啟賣方分析師的電話會議了。謝謝你，麥可。

(Operator Instructions) Samik Chatterjee, JPMorgan.

（操作員指示）Samik Chatterjee，摩根大通。

I guess, Gary, if I sort of go back and -- from the last earnings call, you already had indicated that you were seeing strong start in terms of orders to this quarter. But when I listened to the commentary this morning, it just sounds more like you've seen probably more acceleration through the quarter with the cloud customers. But just maybe if you can talk about the linearity of the orders with the cloud for the quarter because over it sounded more sort of optimistic than what we heard from you 90 days ago.

我想，加里，如果我回顧一下——從上次財報電話會議開始，您就已經表示本季的訂單狀況開局強勁。但是當我今天早上聽到評論時，聽起來更像是看到雲端客戶在本季可能出現了更大的加速。但是，也許您可以談論本季度雲端訂單的線性關係，因為這聽起來比我們 90 天前從您那裡聽到的更樂觀。

And in terms of visibility, how do you think about visibility beyond FY25? You're talking about doubling of orders? And how do you think about sustainability of that kind of growth or investments from them into fiscal '26? And then I have a quick follow up.

就可見性而言，您如何看待 25 財年以後的可見性？您說的是訂單量翻倍嗎？您如何看待這種成長或投資在 26 財年的可持續性？然後我有一個快速的跟進。

That was a pretty comprehensive question. Thank you, Samik. So I think in direct answer to the first part of that, I think we saw strong order flows in Q1. That continued in Q2 and probably accelerated in Q2 and the activity. And I'd say two things about it. One, service providers, nice steady increases underpinned all of that, and I think that's very sustainable and durable.

這是一個相當全面的問題。謝謝你，薩米克。因此，我認為直接回答第一部分的問題，我認為我們在第一季看到了強勁的訂單流。這種情況在第二季度持續存在，並且可能在第二季度和活動中加速。關於這一點我想說兩點。首先，服務提供者的穩定成長支撐了這一切，我認為這是非常永續和持久的。

And then the cloud, I think we're seeing a step function here in demand. We're seeing cloud growth in terms of traffic flows. And then we're seeing these incremental opportunities as well that are emerging this regional GPU cluster 1 that I talked about specifically today is really incremental to our thought process for the year. And I would also say that that momentum both on service providers and on the cloud players is continuing into Q3.

然後是雲端運算，我認為我們看到了需求的階躍函數。我們看到雲端流量正在成長。然後，我們也看到了這些正在出現的增量機會，我今天特別談到的這個區域 GPU 集群 1 對我們今年的思考過程來說確實是一個增量機會。我還想說，服務供應商和雲端運算供應商的這種勢頭將持續到第三季。

So -- and this exceeds our expectations for the year. I think given this notion around traffic coming out of the data center, to both do training and for monetization, we are beginning to see that for sure in addition to these other applications.

所以——這超出了我們對今年的預期。我認為，考慮到資料中心流出的流量的概念，既可以進行訓練，也可以進行貨幣化，除了這些其他應用程式之外，我們肯定會開始看到這一點。

So I think at this stage, obviously, it's early to predict next year and the three-year piece, I think it's reasonable to assume that given the step function in demand, I think we will revise the three-year guidance when we get to the end of this year. Obviously, not appropriate to do that now. But I think what's behind your question there, Samik, is this a long-term trend? And I think the answer to that is absolutely yes.

因此，我認為在現階段，顯然預測明年和三年的情況還為時過早，我認為可以合理地假設，考慮到需求的階躍函數，我認為我們將在今年年底時修改三年的指導方針。顯然，現在這樣做不合適。但我認為，薩米克，你提出的問題背後的含義是，這是一個長期趨勢嗎？我認為答案是肯定的。

Got it. And for my follow up, on the gross margin side, and I know mix is sort of impacting this year, but one of the concerns that we hear from investors is as you ramp on pluggables, and this year, you also have the coherent light products ramping next year. Is that a headwind in terms of mix to the overall margin -- long-term margins for the company? Can you just address that concern if there is a change in terms of the longer-term thinking for gross margins for the company, just given where the expansion opportunities that you are pursuing.

知道了。至於我的後續問題，就毛利率方面而言，我知道產品組合對今年有一定的影響，但我們從投資者那裡聽到的一個擔憂是，隨著今年可插拔產品的增加，明年相干光產品的產量也會增加。從產品組合角度來看，這對公司的整體利潤率（長期利潤率）來說是一個阻力嗎？考慮到您正在尋求的擴張機會，如果公司對毛利率的長期考慮發生變化，您能否解決這一擔憂？

And before I pass it over to you, Jim, thank you for your help all of these days.

在我把它交給你之前，吉姆，謝謝你這些天來的幫助。

Thanks for the question, Samik. We've always said that mix is the single most important element of our gross margin number in any given quarter. And that certainly affected us in Q2 and likely will affect us in Q3. As we look out, though, we really are not backing off our view that mid-40s percentage is the right gross margin for us, at least as a target, and we think we can get there in a couple of years. What's happened in this quarter is that we have exceedingly high demand for pluggables and our new reconfigurable line system.

謝謝你的提問，薩米克。我們一直說，產品組合是決定任何一個季度的毛利率最重要的因素。這肯定會對我們第二季產生影響，並且很可能也會對我們第三季產生影響。然而，從長遠來看，我們確實不會放棄我們的觀點，即 40% 左右的毛利率對我們來說是合適的，至少作為一個目標，我們認為我們可以在幾年內實現這一目標。本季的情況是，我們對可插拔產品和新型可重構線路系統的需求非常高。

Both of those are at lower than corporate average margins for slightly different reasons. The RLS, the reconfigurable line system, is always been based on a razor-razor blade type pricing model. And so when we sell a lot of ROS without a lot of capacity adds, we are going to enjoy lower margins than our mid-40s. That's just a fact. It's becoming the industry standard.

由於略有不同的原因，這兩家公司的利潤率都低於企業平均。RLS（可重構生產線系統）始終基於剃刀刀片類型的定價模型。因此，當我們銷售大量 ROS 而沒有增加大量容量時，我們的利潤率將低於 40 年代中期的水平。這只是一個事實。它正在成為行業標準。

It's a good thing for future margins because we will sell the capacity, at least most of the capacity, to go into those line systems. So that by its very nature, will improve over time. On the pluggable side, what I'd say there is that we are in the very early stage of ramping our pluggables business. It's going to be -- we said at least $150 million this year. It's -- we're 20% of the market, it's going to grow. That share is going to grow.

這對未來的利潤來說是一件好事，因為我們將出售產能，至少是大部分產能，以進入這些生產線系統。因此，就其本質而言，它會隨著時間的推移而改善。在可插拔方面，我想說的是，我們正處於可插拔業務發展的早期階段。我們說今年至少要投入 1.5 億美元。我們的市佔率為 20%，而且還會成長。這一份額還會成長。

And our cost points are not as good as we'd like them to be. They will -- those cost points will decline over time and our margins will improve. We're also going to generate -- going to introduce the next generation of plugs, the 800-gig plug, an 800ZR, ZR plus, all of that generation will come out. And those should be higher performance and better gross margin. So there is a path to getting to gross margins, is not going to happen in Q3. And I think it will definitely start to happen in next year.

而且我們的成本點並不像我們所希望的那麼好。他們會——這些成本點會隨著時間的推移而下降，我們的利潤率也會提高。我們還將生產——推出下一代插頭，800 千兆插頭、800ZR、ZR plus，所有這一代產品都將問世。這些應該是更高的性能和更好的毛利率。因此，實現毛利率的途徑是存在的，但這不會在第三季實現。我認為明年這肯定會開始發生。

The other dimension on mix is WaveLogic 6 Extreme part of our system business. Gary talked about the momentum that we had in that -- in his prepared remarks. That's in the early stages of ramp as well. So it has the same dynamic as the pluggables, lots of levers to pull on operational supply chain efficiencies and design cost reduction that you do over the life cycle of the product, and that will naturally lift the margins in those parts of the portfolio.

混合的另一個維度是我們系統業務的 WaveLogic 6 Extreme 部分。加里在準備好的演講中談到了我們在這方面取得的進展。這也處於成長的早期階段。因此，它具有與可插拔產品相同的動態，在產品生命週期中，有許多槓桿可以提高營運供應鏈效率並降低設計成本，這自然會提高產品組合中這些部分的利潤率。

The other thing I would just add to add to all of that is, Samik, we're -- given what we're seeing around the dynamics of demand, and how sustainable that is, given what Jim and Scott have talked around the gross margin mix, being a bit of a headwind in the short term for us. We're confident we'll get through that. We've done that before, that makes us even more confident in our operating margin targets for getting into those mid-teens as we get to '27. And I think we'll see continued improvement both in the second half of this year and also in 2016 on the journey.

我想補充的另一件事是，薩米克，考慮到我們所看到的需求動態及其可持續性，考慮到吉姆和斯科特所談論的毛利率組合，短期內這對我們來說是一個阻力。我們有信心能夠渡過難關。我們以前就這樣做過，這讓我們對 27 年營業利潤率進入十幾歲的目標更有信心。我認為，我們將在今年下半年以及 2016 年看到持續的改善。

Thank you. Thanks for the color.

謝謝。謝謝你的顏色。

Simon Leopold, Raymond James.

西蒙李奧波德、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Thanks for taking the question. And Jim, thank you as well for all the service and certainly appreciate getting a full year's heads up on your retirement. So a nice glide path without a shock to the system. So grateful for that as well. So I wanted to see if maybe we could unpack the top customers a bit. And then you mentioned three out of five were cloud and the 2 10% customers, one being service provider, one cloud. I guess what I'm trying to get a better sense of is what were the more specific percentage contributions from the two over 10%? And how much of overall revenue is coming from the top five customers in the quarter?

感謝您回答這個問題。吉姆，也感謝你為我們提供的所有服務，並且非常感激能提前一年了解你的退休情況。因此，滑行路徑良好，不會對系統造成衝擊。我對此也十分感激。所以我想看看我們是否可以稍微分析一下頂級客戶。然後您提到五分之三是雲，另外 2 個 10% 的客戶，一個是服務供應商，一個是雲端。我想更了解的是，這兩個人對 10% 的貢獻具體佔多少百分比？本季總收入有多少來自前五大客戶？

Yeah. The largest customer was a cloud customer, it was 13% to 14%. I don't have the precise number right here. So 13% and the second one was our service provider, AT&T at 10.4%. The top five, I'd have to quickly calculate, but it would -- I'll do that and get back to you, Simon.

是的。最大的客戶是雲端客戶，佔13%到14%。我這裡沒有確切的數字。所以佔 13%，第二個是我們的服務供應商 AT&T，佔 10.4%。我必須快速計算出前五名，但我會這樣做，然後再回覆你，西蒙。

Okay. And then just I'll ask a follow up while you're looking at those numbers. In terms of some of the trends from these cloud customers, so comfortable that visibility has improved, it sounds like a good trend. I know we're not ready to provide guidance for fiscal '26. But I guess folks are trying to trying -- what's sort of the sustainability of this?

好的。然後，當您查看這些數字時，我會詢問後續問題。就這些雲端客戶的一些趨勢而言，可見度已經提高，這聽起來像是一個很好的趨勢。我知道我們還沒準備好為 26 財年提供指導。但我想人們正在嘗試——這種做法的可持續性如何？

Do you get a better sense that we'll see a broadening base of contributions from cloud both direct and indirect that it should continue to grow next year. How should we think about the longer-term trend beyond the end of fiscal '25?

您是否更好地感覺到，我們將看到來自雲端運算的直接和間接貢獻基礎不斷擴大，並且明年它應該會繼續增長。我們該如何看待25財年末以後的長期趨勢？

As I'm sure you can appreciate, obviously, we don't want to get ahead of ourselves into giving sort of detailed guide for '26. But clearly, with the kind of dynamics that we're seeing, Simon, I think about it, you've got a broadening application base. I talked about the GPU clusters earlier and the inside the data center focused application there. And you've also got a broadening amount of cloud providers. We've had significant new wins over the first half of the year.

我相信您能理解，顯然，我們不想操之過急地為 26 年提供詳細的指南。但顯然，西蒙，根據我們所看到的動態，我認為，你的應用基礎正在不斷擴大。我之前談到了 GPU 叢集以及資料中心內部的重點應用。而且雲端提供商的數量也在增加。我們在今年上半年取得了重大的新勝利。

More and more of these cloud providers, not just the large four are now really leaning into the network. And so I think you've got a broadening set of players, and you've got a deepening set of applications, which obviously gives us confidence in the sustainability and durability of it. And given the magnitude of the scale out, we've got very good visibility with a number of them about their long-term plans. And we're also co-creating with them as well. So that gives us increased visibility and confidence as well as we go forward.

現在，越來越多的雲端供應商（不僅僅是四大雲端供應商）真正傾向於網路。因此，我認為你已經擁有了越來越廣泛的參與者，並且擁有了越來越深化的應用，這顯然讓我們對它的可持續性和持久性充滿信心。考慮到規模的擴大，我們對其中一些公司的長期計劃有了很好的了解。我們也與他們共同創造。因此，這為我們前進提供了更高的知名度和信心。

The two big wins that Gary spoke about earlier, both of which have applicability outside of the original customers. The regional GPU clusters in particular, is something that the industry has been talking about for years. And now the demands for data flows inside the data center has brought that phenomenon about. So this is a big trend for us. We think it will be at least considered, if not adopted by other cloud providers. And the -- inside the data center connectivity is being looked at by other cloud customers as well. So both of those have applicability outside of the original customers.

加里之前談到的兩大勝利，都對原有客戶以外的客戶具有適用性。特別是區域 GPU 集群，是業界多年來一直在談論的話題。而現在資料中心內部資料流動的需求就帶來了這種現象。所以這對我們來說是一個大趨勢。我們認為，即使其他雲端供應商不採用它，至少也會考慮它。其他雲端客戶也在關注資料中心內部的連結。因此，這兩者都適用於原始客戶之外。

And the answer to your question, Simon, the top five customers were 45% of revenue.

西蒙，你問題的答案是，前五名客戶佔收入的 45%。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Amit Daryanani, Evercore.

阿米特·達亞納尼 (Amit Daryanani)，Evercore。

I guess I have two as well. Maybe just to start with -- when I think about the 14% growth outlook for the year, can you just talk about what are you sort of assuming from a growth basis in cloud versus telco for the year? And then really if I kind of look at what you're implying for October quarter specifically, I think you're implying it's going to be up low single-digit sequential around $1.2 billion. So would that imply that a lot of the auto momentum you're seeing right now is more likely to convert to revenues in fiscal '26 versus the back half of this year?

我想我也有兩個。也許只是開始——當我考慮今年 14% 的成長前景時，您能否談談您對今年雲端運算與電信的成長基礎有何假設？然後，如果我具體看一下您對 10 月份季度的具體暗示，我認為您的暗示是它將環比增長 12 億美元左右的個位數。那麼，這是否意味著，您現在看到的汽車業發展勢頭更有可能在 2026 財年轉化為收入，而不是在今年下半年？

Yes, quick answer to that, I mean, yes. I mean, given the scaling demand, we're not going to be able to -- and a lot of it is scheduled for out further because of the size and scale of it. So we're certainly, I think, going to be going into 2026 with an increased backlog. I think that's where you're going with this. And that's absolutely a reasonable assumption.

是的，快速回答一下，我的意思是，是的。我的意思是，考慮到擴展需求，我們將無法做到——而且由於其規模和範圍，許多工作都安排在了更遠的地方。因此，我認為，到 2026 年，我們的積壓訂單肯定會增加。我想這就是你要去的地方。這絕對是一個合理的假設。

We are ramping our supply chain pretty strongly. And we started that last year, and we're continuing to increase that. So we can address that because we do think it's very sustainable, and we've got good visibility to it. So we are going to go into 2026 even with the increase to sort of 14% growth in the year, we're still going to be leaving the year with a larger backlog than when we entered it. That's for sure.

我們正在大力擴張我們的供應鏈。我們從去年就開始這樣做了，並且還在繼續增加。所以我們可以解決這個問題，因為我們確實認為它非常永續，而且我們對此有很好的了解。因此，進入 2026 年，即使今年的成長率達到 14%，我們今年的積壓訂單量仍將比年初更大。這是肯定的。

Super helpful. And if you could spend a little bit of time on this, the pluggable opportunity, and you talked about you're deploying your pluggable optics with one of these distributed GPU clusters. Can you just talk about what distance are these pluggables being used for right now? And if I think longer term, beyond the $150 million number you talked about, how big do you think this market can be and where do you think your market share could eventually get in that space?

超有幫助。如果您可以花一點時間在這個可插拔機會上，並且您談到了使用其中一個分散式 GPU 叢集部署可插拔光學元件。能談談這些可插拔設備目前的使用距離是多少嗎？如果我從更長遠的角度考慮，除了您談到的 1.5 億美元之外，您認為這個市場能有多大，您認為您的市場份額最終能達到多少？

Okay. Let me take the second part of that, and then I'll pass Scott to give you some more on the sort of architectural side. I would say that we've been engaged with multiple players over this kind of architecture where because of power and space constraints, they cannot get all of the GPUs in a single data center. So this is the first one that we've seen, and we believe we're one of the first deployments like that, and it's just a couple of the regions, and it is hundreds of millions of dollars of both 800-gig pluggables and line system.

好的。讓我來談談第二部分，然後我會讓史考特告訴你一些關於建築方面的更多內容。我想說的是，我們已經與多家廠商就這種架構進行了合作，由於功率和空間的限制，他們無法在單一資料中心獲得所有的 GPU。這是我們見過的第一個，我們相信我們是第一個這樣的部署之一，而且它只是幾個地區，它是價值數億美元的 800 千兆可插拔設備和線路系統。

So in terms of sizing, it's pretty material. And this is one player just beginning to roll this piece out. So this is a very sizable and substantial opportunity for us.

因此，就尺寸而言，它非常實用。這只是其中一位剛開始推出這款產品的玩家。所以這對我們來說是一個非常巨大且實質的機會。

Yeah. In terms of the overall pluggable piece, you need to differentiate sort of our pluggable participation in sort of the classic metro campus DCI, which is the 80 kilometers plus kind of domain with this regional GPU clustering application that we're talking about. In the latter case, what we're really talking about here is a simple way to think about it is an express overlay network between GPU clusters, that has massive capacity, reaches 100- to 150-kilometer type range, requires resilience latency, requires WDM, and is right in the sweet spot of coherent technologies.

是的。就整體可插拔部件而言，您需要區分我們在經典城域園區 DCI 中的可插拔參與，即我們正在討論的 80 公里以上的區域，其中包含區域 GPU 叢集應用程式。在後一種情況下，我們在這裡真正談論的是一種簡單的思考方式，即 GPU 集群之間的快速覆蓋網絡，它具有巨大的容量，達到 100 到 150 公里的範圍，需要彈性延遲，需要 WDM，並且正好處於相干技術的最佳位置。

So it's what we've been talking about for a long time, which is a power becomes a bigger constraint, they need to distribute these GPU clusters, capacity goes up, that's going to create more opportunities for coherent. And this is an instantiation of that. It's coming across as pluggable opportunities at 800-gig, and it's coming across as line systems, all incremental to the use cases that we've been pursuing in the past.

這就是我們長期以來一直在談論的問題，即功率成為更大的限制因素，他們需要分配這些 GPU 集群，容量上升，這將為連貫性創造更多的機會。這就是它的一個實例。它以 800 千兆的可插拔機會的形式出現，並且以線路系統的形式出現，所有這些都是我們過去一直追求的用例的增量。

Great. Thank you very much and best of luck, Jim.

偉大的。非常感謝，祝你好運，吉姆。

Excellent.

出色的。

Ruben, Roy, Stifel.

魯本、羅伊、史蒂費爾。

Thank you. Scott, you probably just answered this question, but just so I understand on the GPU cluster opportunity, it seems to me from the prepared remarks and what you just said, that that you're uniquely positioned given that you have both the line systems and the pluggables and that's part of this new architecture that some of the folks are thinking about. Is that the right way to think about it?

謝謝。斯科特，你可能剛剛回答了這個問題，但就我所了解的 GPU 集群機會而言，從準備好的發言和你剛才所說的內容來看，你的定位很獨特，因為你同時擁有線路系統和可插拔系統，而這是一些人正在考慮的新架構的一部分。這是正確的思考方式嗎？

Yeah. I think over time, the opportunity we believe is big enough that there'll be multiple binders at play. But with our leadership in coherent and as we said, RLS being sort of the de facto standard for line systems, we are certainly going to get our unfair share or the bulk of the early move on this piece. So we're quite excited about it. We've been working on it with the lead customer for some time around looking at the feasibility and super focused on delivering to it.

是的。我認為隨著時間的推移，我們相信的機會足夠大，將會有多個黏合劑發揮作用。但是，由於我們在連貫性方面的領導地位，並且正如我們所說，RLS 是線路系統的事實標準，我們肯定會獲得不公平的份額或在這一部分的大部分早期行動中。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。我們與主要客戶合作了一段時間，研究其可行性，並高度專注於實現這一目標。

Great thank you and as a quick follow up for Gary. I wanted to talk about Blue Planet. It's shown quite a bit of momentum over the last several quarters. And you talked a little bit, Gary, about agentic AI and some of the things that some of your customers are thinking about. I'm wondering if you could just kind of delve into that a little bit AI opportunities longer term and any detail on use cases that you're talking to your customers about and how are you thinking about that in terms of growth going forward.

非常感謝，並作為對 Gary 的快速跟進。我想談談藍色星球。過去幾個季度它表現出了相當大的發展勢頭。加里，您稍微談了一下代理人工智慧以及一些客戶正在考慮的事情。我想知道您是否可以深入探討長期的人工智慧機會以及您與客戶討論的用例的細節，以及您如何看待未來成長的這些機會。

Yeah. If you think about the sort of software assets that we've got that are strategically embedded on the service provider side, you've got Navigator around that sort of the main piece was a complete sort of micro services-based architecture. And then, as you know, we had a kind of a lot of learning around Blue Planet being a micro services (inaudible) software platform for OSS.

是的。如果您考慮我們所擁有的在服務提供者方面策略性地嵌入的軟體資產類型，您會發現 Navigator 的主要部分是一種完整的基於微服務的架構。然後，如您所知，我們對 Blue Planet 作為 OSS 的微服務（聽不清楚）軟體平台進行了大量學習。

And I think we're seeing a lot of momentum now on the Blue Planet side. We're very focused on things like the inventory, confederation of inventory. And you think about that strategically, you basically get to have the data set within the service providers of what is out there. And really, without that, it's very difficult to have agentic AI if you haven't understood what the whole inventory of your network is.

我認為我們現在看到藍色星球方面有很大的發展勢頭。我們非常關注庫存、庫存聯盟等事項。如果你從策略角度考慮這個問題，基本上你就可以獲得服務提供者內部現有的資料集。事實上，如果你不了解整個網路的庫存，那麼就很難擁有代理人工智慧。

So we're sort of, we believe, uniquely placed to be able to leverage that into the future. And that's what we're focused on developing and engaging with a number of very large service provider customers on. We've got a great position in a number of those large service providers, and we've got the right architecture that will scale up for that.

因此，我們相信，我們擁有獨特的優勢，能夠在未來充分利用這一點。這就是我們致力於開發並與眾多大型服務供應商客戶合作的重點。我們在許多大型服務提供者中佔據著重要地位，並且我們擁有可以擴大規模的正確架構。

It's early days. But basically, we're in a tremendous position from a relationship and a trusted partner point of view and from an architecture point of view, Ruben, to really leverage that into something where we become the de facto data management for (inaudible) and facilitates the agentic AI.

現在還為時過早。但基本上，從關係和值得信賴的合作夥伴的角度來看，以及從架構的角度來看，我們處於一個非常有利的位置，Ruben，我們可以真正利用這一點，成為事實上的資料管理（聽不清楚）並促進代理人工智慧。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

Meta Marshall, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Meta Marshall。

Great. Maybe just a second kind of on the routing wins that you guys were talking about. Just wanted to get a sense, you guys have invested a lot in that business over the past few years. It was kind of one of the service provider wins kind of one of the -- finally kind of seeing some of the benefit of that investment?

偉大的。也許這只是你們談論的第二種路由勝利。只是想了解一下，過去幾年你們在該業務上投入了大量資金。這算是服務提供者的勝利之一，也是最終看到投資的一些好處之一？

And then maybe just secondly, I'll get the question in ahead of time. Just on installation capacity, are you guys seeing kind of more requests for installation capacity just as kind of your increase in revenue would point to kind of an increased need for capacity increases.

其次，也許我會提前提出這個問題。僅就安裝容量而言，你們是否看到對安裝容量的更多需求，就像你們的收入增加表明對容量增加的需求增加一樣。

So I think on the Routing and Switching side, Meta, I think it's completely aligned with the service provider journey. And I think one view of what's happened with service providers over the last few years, they've really underinvested in a lot of their core infrastructure because they've been very focused on, first of all, COVID, then supply chain whiplash and challenges around that, and then 5G, where they've had to invest enormous amounts of money and capital and focus on 5G, and that's largely not worked out from a profit generating point of view.

因此，我認為在路由和交換方面，Meta，我認為它與服務提供者的旅程完全一致。我認為，從過去幾年服務提供者的情況來看，他們在許多核心基礎設施上投資不足，因為他們首先非常關注新冠疫情，然後是供應鏈的衝擊和隨之而來的挑戰，然後是 5G，他們不得不投入大量資金和資本，專注於 5G，但從盈利的角度來看，這基本上沒有奏效。

So I think we're at a point now where they're returning to, I think, a very sustainable sort of scalable investment thesis, and that includes Routing and Switching. And I think the two go hand-in-hand. And I think with the service provider uptick that we're seeing now investment in new Routing and Switching applications and a number of new wins. So that's encouraging for us. And I think that will absolutely continue.

所以我認為我們現在正處於一個回歸到非常可持續的可擴展投資理論的階段，其中包括路由和交換。我認為兩者是相輔相成的。我認為，隨著服務提供者的成長，我們現在看到對新路由和交換應用程式的投資以及許多新的勝利。這對我們來說是令人鼓舞的。我認為這絕對會持續下去。

To your point about EF&I, which I think is a very important point for a couple of reasons. One, the increased shipments, we've got really good visibility to what's happening with those shipments. And we are the EF&I partner for a lot of our large customers, including the cloud customers. So we have good visibility to what's happening. And I will say to you that that's in balance. And the need for EF&I is going to go up exponentially similar to the ramping of our supply chain and demand, and we're seeing a lot of activity across the board for EF&I, both in service providers and in the cloud, obviously, to help in store this massive amount of investment over the next few years.

關於您提到的 EF&I，我認為出於幾個原因，這是一個非常重要的觀點。首先，隨著出貨量的增加，我們對這些出貨量的狀況有了很好的了解。我們是許多大客戶（包括雲端客戶）的 EF&I 合作夥伴。因此，我們可以清楚地了解正在發生的事情。我要告訴你們，這是平衡的。對 EF&I 的需求將呈指數級增長，類似於我們的供應鏈和需求的增長，我們看到 EF&I 領域在服務提供商和雲端都有大量活動，顯然這將有助於在未來幾年儲存這筆巨額投資。

I mean, just to continue on in the Routing and Switching piece. I mean, we've been very encouraged by the number of logo wins that we've had over the last number of quarters. Logo wins, obviously, our precursor to orders or precursor to revenue in line with the sort of service provider dynamics, the order book on Routing and Switching for the last number of quarters has been quite a bit in excess of the revenue piece. To put a dimension to that, orders in the first half of the year and Routing and Switching were greater than 75% of the total orders last year for Routing and Switching. So there's momentum there, and we would expect that to flow through to revenue with a strong second half.

我的意思是繼續討論路由和交換部分。我的意思是，過去幾個季度我們贏得的標誌數量讓我們感到非常鼓舞。顯然，Logo 獲勝，我們的訂單前兆或收入前兆與服務提供者的動態一致，過去幾個季度路由和交換的訂單量遠遠超過了收入部分。具體來說，今年上半年路由和交換的訂單量超過了去年路由和交換總訂單量的 75%。因此，那裡存在著發展勢頭，我們預計下半年的強勁成長將轉化為收入。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

Atif Malik, Citi.

花旗銀行的阿蒂夫馬利克 (Atif Malik)。

It's Adrienne Colby for Atif. Thank you for the question. I was hoping we could go back to gross margin. I think last quarter you had been expecting gross margin to trend up from the Q2 levels into the second half and the back half of the year. So I just wanted to understand better what's changed, perhaps the production scaling of the 400ZR is trending differently from expectations. We've talked about the product mix impact so I think that's well understood. But just trying to understand what's shifted in that outlook?

我是阿德里安·科爾比 (Adrienne Colby)，她代表阿蒂夫 (Atif)。謝謝你的提問。我希望我們能夠恢復毛利率。我認為上個季度您曾預期毛利率將從第二季的水平上升到下半年和下半年。所以我只是想更了解發生了什麼變化，也許 400ZR 的生產規模趨勢與預期不同。我們已經討論了產品組合的影響，所以我認為這很好理解。但只是想了解這種觀點發生了哪些變化？

Yes. You'll recall that our original guide for the year on gross margins was 42% to 44%. We're now saying that it's going to be at the low end of that range, and it is essentially that demand for two products, in particular, have greatly exceeded our expectations, the RLS systems and our plugs. And as I've discussed, both of those are currently below corporate average gross margins. We do have a path to improvement, and you should see improvement in [gross margins], certainly next year.

是的。您可能還記得，我們​​最初對今年毛利率的預期是 42% 至 44%。我們現在說它將處於該範圍的低端，基本上對兩種產品的需求大大超出了我們的預期，即 RLS 系統和我們的插頭。正如我所討論的，這兩家公司的毛利率目前都低於企業平均值。我們確實有一條改進的道路，你應該會看到[毛利率]的改善，至少明年是這樣。

Q3 is probably going to look more like Q2 and probably a little improvement in Q4. But again, as Gary said earlier, we're committed to improving those gross margins and to getting our operating margin back to the 15% to 16% level by the end of the three-year period.

Q3 可能看起來更像 Q2，並且 Q4 可能會略有改善。但正如加里之前所說，我們致力於提高毛利率，並在三年末將營業利潤率恢復到 15% 至 16% 的水平。

Thank you for that clarification. And then I was just hoping we could talk about the MOFN opportunities, maybe talk a little bit more about your pipeline. I know you've said that this is one of your strongest quarters in terms of orders there. Interested if you're seeing some expansion beyond India. I know that's been an area where you've had significant traction.

感謝您的澄清。然後我只是希望我們可以談論 MOFN 機會，也許可以多談談您的管道。我知道您說過，就訂單而言，這是你們最強勁的一個季度。如果您看到印度以外的擴張，您會感興趣。我知道這是你們取得巨大進展的領域。

We're seeing a lot of MOFN activity in India. It's not translated to a massive amount of revenues yet, but we've taken the orders and it will. We're seeing MOFN activity throughout the globe. And I think it's just really -- it goes hand-in-hand with the whole cloud build-out. They can't build everywhere with their own network, and so it's augmented by these MOFN opportunities.

我們看到印度有很多 MOFN 活動。雖然它還沒有轉化為大量的收入，但我們已經接受了訂單，而且它將轉化為大量的收入。我們看到 MOFN 活動遍佈全球。我認為它確實與整個雲端運算建設密切相關。他們無法利用自己的網路在任何地方進行建設，因此這些 MOFN 機會增強了他們的網路建設能力。

We're seeing that in North America as well. There's been some, as you know, large announcements around some of the larger carriers partnering there with Lumen and Zayo, et cetera. We're seeing that reflected in pretty much all parts of the globe. Asia outside of India. We're beginning to see that in Europe. We're seeing activity -- it's the largest amount of activity that we've seen, and it really just goes hand-in-hand with the overall strategic plans for these cloud providers.

我們在北美也看到了這種情況。如您所知，一些大型營運商已經發布了與 Lumen、Zayo 等公司合作的重大公告。我們看到全球各地都出現了這種情況。印度以外的亞洲。我們開始在歐洲看到這種情況。我們看到了活動——這是我們見過的最大規模的活動，而且它實際上與這些雲端提供者的整體策略計劃密切相關。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tim Savageaux, Northland Capital Markets.

北國資本市場 (Northland Capital Markets) 的 Tim Savageaux 說道。

Congrats on the results and increased outlook. I had a question on the cloud front. And Gary, I think you mentioned a step which I think you're referring to demand. It looks like we saw another major change in the quarter, and that's diversification of your cloud business among several providers. It seems like your top customers, the smallest percentage of that total bucket that it's been in a while or at least in recent history. And I wonder if you could talk about that trend of customer diversification within cloud and whether you expect to see that continue? I know it can be kind of lumpy. But I'd be interested in your thoughts overall on that.

祝賀所取得的成果和前景的提升。我有一個關於雲端的問題。加里，我認為您提到的步驟與需求有關。看起來我們在本季看到了另一個重大變化，那就是您的雲端業務在多家供應商之間的多樣化。看起來您的頂級客戶在總量中所佔的比例是一段時間以來或至少是近期歷史上最小的。我想知道您是否可以談談雲端運算中客戶多樣化的趨勢，以及您是否預計這種趨勢會持續下去？我知道它可能有點粗糙。但我對你對此的整體想法很感興趣。

Yeah, that's a good point, Tim. I mean I'd say overall, we're seeing -- we start with the sort of four known -- the hyperscalers there were. We're seeing increases in all four. Step function increases in all four cloud players directly with us and also through things as I was talking just with MOFN as well. So it's all consistent with that.

是的，提姆，你的觀點很好。我的意思是，總的來說，我們看到——我們從已知的四種超大規模企業開始。我們看到這四個面向都在成長。所有四個雲端播放器的階躍函數都直接與我們一起增加，並且透過我與 MOFN 交談的事情也增加了。所以這一切都與此一致。

And then we're seeing them really -- and I think it's a sort of hierarchical flow is how I think about it. They've been very focused, obviously, on power and GPUs and scaling all that. Now it's about scaling it out. And it's now about the network. And they're very focused, all of them on making sure that the network does justice to all this massive investment that's gone on in compute. So I think this is the phase that we're entering out, and that's why we're seeing it across all of the hyperscalers.

然後我們真的看到了它們——我認為這是一種層次流。顯然，他們非常關注電力、GPU 以及所有這些的擴展。現在需要做的就是擴大規模。現在是關於網路的。他們非常專注，致力於確保網路能夠與計算領域的所有巨額投資相匹配。所以我認為這是我們正在進入的階段，這也是為什麼我們在所有超大規模企業中都能看到它。

As you say, it's lumpy in a summer, leaning in more than others, but they're all I think showing a step function increase in the importance of the network. And then you've got a whole other set of players as well that has expanded out from a cloud point of view that are now leaning in our network. And so you've got a broadening out. It's not just the large four anymore. It's a much larger group of players that are now recognizing that if they're going to monetize and to optimize their GPU investments.

正如你所說，夏天天氣起伏不定，比其他時候傾斜得更多，但我認為它們都顯示出網路重要性的階躍函數增加。然後，您還會擁有另一組參與者，他們從雲端的角度擴展開來，現在傾向於我們的網路。這樣你就擴大範圍了。現在不再只是四大巨頭了。現在，越來越多的玩家意識到，如果他們要將 GPU 投資貨幣化並進行最佳化。

It's all about the network. And that's why we think it's very diversified, durable and sustainable. And it's all about high-speed connectivity. That's really what it's about.

一切都與網路有關。這就是為什麼我們認為它非常多樣化、持久且可持續。這一切都與高速連線有關。這才是事情的真正意義。

Great. Thanks very much, and Jim, congratulations. It's been great working with you.

偉大的。非常感謝，吉姆，恭喜你。和你一起工作很愉快。

Ryan Koontz, Needham & Company.

瑞安·孔茨（Ryan Koontz），Needham & Company。

I wanted to follow up on your comments around tariff mitigation and your different levers there around supply chain, customer surcharges, and if you can kind of broadly characterize how negotiations are going with your with your customers there in terms of passing some of those costs along $10 million hit from tariff. Doesn't sound like that much relative to the big scheme.

我想跟進您關於關稅減免以及您在供應鏈、客戶附加費方面的不同手段的評論，以及您是否可以大致描述一下您與客戶在將部分成本轉嫁到 1000 萬美元關稅損失方面的談判進展情況。與大計劃相比，這聽起來不算多。

Yeah. Any discussion of tariffs is going to have to be caveated by the fact that we only know what the regime in place is now, and it could very well change soon. But under the regime in place now and given all the exemptions that are in the current regime, we are likely to experience a cost of about $10 million per quarter.

是的。任何有關關稅的討論都必須考慮到這樣一個事實：我們只知道目前的系統是什麼樣的，而且它很可能很快就會改變。但在現行製度下，考慮到現行製度下的所有豁免，我們每季的成本可能會達到約 1,000 萬美元。

Now, if other schemes come in place and the potential for tariffs go up, we do have a range of things that we could do. We could move manufacturing operations. We could change some flows in our supply chain. We can do a number of things like that, which would reduce it. With respect to passing on to customers, it's going to be a complicated situation because not in all cases, are we going to actually pass a tariff along to them.

現在，如果其他計劃到位並且關稅可能上漲，我們確實可以採取一系列措施。我們可以轉移製造業務。我們可以改變供應鏈中的一些流程。我們可以做很多類似的事來減少這種情況。至於將關稅轉嫁給客戶，這將是一個複雜的情況，因為並非在所有情況下，我們都會將關稅轉嫁給他們。

In some cases, it might result in some price increases -- general price increases, et cetera. So all of those things -- that's about as far as we're willing to go today. But we think that the net cost to our bottom line is going to be immaterial going forward.

在某些情況下，它可能會導致價格上漲——普遍價格上漲等等。所以所有這些事情——這就是我們今天願意做的全部了。但我們認為，未來我們的淨成本將不會產生太大影響。

Got it. Thanks, Jim, and congrats. And, Gary, if I could follow up on your momentum and pluggables, or maybe for Scott, on CR, is this still dominantly driven by cloud operators or are you seeing much service provider traction? Where are we in the service provider adoption cycle for your pluggable CR products?

知道了。謝謝，吉姆，恭喜你。而且，加里，如果我可以跟進您的發展勢頭和可插拔性，或者對於斯科特來說，在 CR 方面，這是否仍然主要由雲端運營商推動，還是您是否看到了服務提供者的吸引力？我們處於可插拔 CR 產品的服務提供者採用週期的哪個階段？

Yeah, from a ZR perspective in terms of that application, Ryan, it is dominated by the cloud in terms of the volume. Pluggable have existed forever in terms of service provider deployments for different reasons for modularity, and we do ship our plugs into service providers, but the volume for ZR is dominated by the cloud.

是的，從 ZR 的角度來看，就該應用程式而言，Ryan，就數量而言，它是由雲端主導的。由於模組化的不同原因，可插拔性在服務提供者部署方面一直存在，並且我們確實將我們的插件運送給服務提供者，但 ZR 的數量主要由雲端決定。

Got it. Thanks so much, guys.

知道了。非常感謝大家。

Karl Ackerman, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的卡爾·阿克曼。

I have two, and I'll just ask them at the same time, if I may. You indicated that mix of pluggables and line systems are the biggest driver of margins. First, does the increased backlog exiting 2026 assume a higher mix of transponder blades. Second, on pluggables, clearly, volume plays a larger role here. But you did speak about a several hundred-million-dollar opportunity from your initial player. So could you discuss where you are on having a fully integrated coherent transceiver giving your IP across VSPs, SerDes, and electro-optics.

我有兩個問題，如果可以的話，我會同時問他們。您指出，可插拔系統和線路系統的混合是利潤的最大驅動因素。首先，2026 年以後積壓訂單的增加是否意味著應答器葉片的混合比例更高。其次，對於可插拔設備而言，顯然體積在這裡起著更大的作用。但您確實談到了從最初的玩家那裡獲得數億美元的機會。那麼，您能否討論一下您在完全整合相干收發器方面處於什麼位置，該收發器可為您的 VSP、SerDes 和電光提供 IP。

The short answer to your first question is yes, we will be selling more capacity next year. That's one of the reasons why we can have the confidence that our margin will go up next year, gross margin and operating margin for that matter.

對您的第一個問題的簡短答案是肯定的，明年我們將銷售更多產能。這就是我們有信心明年利潤率、毛利率和營業利潤率將會上升的原因之一。

Yeah, and on the second one, from a capability perspective, all the major seminal ingredients we own our own IPR on, and as we ramp it over time, a greater proportion of the mix will be on our own components, and that is part of the cost improvement plan.

是的，第二點，從能力角度來看，所有主要的開創性成分我們都擁有自己的智慧財產權，隨著時間的推移，我們自己的組件將佔據混合物的更大比例，這是成本改進計劃的一部分。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) David Vogt, UBS.

（操作員指示）瑞銀 (UBS) 的 David Vogt。

Great. Thanks, guys, for taking my question, and Jim, congratulations and good luck. Maybe one to start with you, Jim. So obviously you've spent some time talking about sort of the dynamic with RLS and pluggables. Can you kind of remind us again, should we expect something similar to what we saw maybe in fiscal '18, '19, and '20 from a systems and transponder capacity perspective recognizing that obviously COVID was a little bit different, but is that the kind of way we should think about the trajectory of capacity additions and the impact on gross margins going forward, and then I have a follow up more specifically on margin.

偉大的。謝謝大家回答我的問題，吉姆，祝賀你並祝你好運。也許可以從你開始，吉姆。顯然，您花了一些時間討論 RLS 和可插入式裝置的動態。您能否再次提醒我們，從系統和應答器容量的角度來看，我們是否應該預期會出現與 2018、2019 和 2020 財年類似的情況，同時認識到 COVID 顯然有所不同，但這是我們應該考慮容量增加的軌跡以及對未來毛利率的影響的方式，然後我將更具體地跟進利潤率。

You'll recall, we had an exceptionally high margin in 2020. That was because COVID did sort of reduced the level of activity with respect to new networks, and so in order to get the capacity that they needed, all of our customers turn to adding capacity to existing line systems. And so we generated, I think, a 48-point-something percent gross margin in one or two quarters of 2020.

您會記得，我們​​在 2020 年的利潤率非常高。這是因為 COVID 確實在某種程度上降低了新網路的活動水平，因此為了獲得所需的容量，我們所有的客戶都轉向增加現有線路系統的容量。因此，我認為我們在 2020 年的一兩個季度內實現了 48% 左右的毛利率。

I don't -- we don't foresee that kind of move in the next three years. We do see though a move back to the mid-40s just based on the fact that all of the things we've talked about, WaveLogic 6, the fact that we're coming out with a new generation of pluggables, which will be higher performance and better gross margin and our cost position on the basic 400ZR will improve. So for all those reasons, we do have confidence the gross margins will improve as we move through the next year or two.

我不認為──我們預期未來三年內不會出現這樣的舉動。我們確實看到了回到 40 年代中期的趨勢，這僅僅基於我們談論的所有內容，WaveLogic 6，以及我們即將推出的新一代可插拔產品，它將具有更高的性能和更好的毛利率，並且我們在基本 400ZR 上的成本地位將會改善。因此，基於所有這些原因，我們有信心，未來一兩年毛利率將會提高。

Got it. And that's helpful. And as a follow up, if I just maybe take your commentary that the gross margin guide is going to be at the low end, but you're taking the revenue guide to the high end or above the high, excuse me, to 14%. That's largely sounds like driven by RLS systems and pluggables. Just quick math, it looks like sort of the incremental profitability is -- I know it's below corporate average, but it seems like it's pretty materially lower in the low-double-digit range.

知道了。這很有幫助。作為後續問題，如果我可能只是接受您的評論，即毛利率指南將處於低端​​，但您將收入指南推向高端或高於高點，對不起，是 14%。這聽起來很大程度上像是被 RLS 系統和可插入式系統所驅動。只需簡單計算一下，看起來增量盈利能力是 - 我知道它低於企業平均水平，但在兩位數以下的範圍內似乎相當低。

Can you kind of help us understand what's going on there? Obviously, you're talking about -- and even that's adjusting for the mitigation strategies from tariffs and the impact of the quarter. Just trying to understand the magnitude of how the pluggables and the RLS revenue is impacting the gross margin for the balance of this year.

您能幫助我們了解那裡發生的事情嗎？顯然，您正在談論——甚至正在根據關稅和本季的影響採取緩解策略。只是想了解可插拔產品和 RLS 收入對今年餘額的毛利率的影響程度。

Well, you've done some math. I'm not going to confirm it, but what I will say is this, we think that given the mix of products in Q3, it's going to be maybe a little higher than gross margin in Q2, but probably in the same range. We do see improvement in Q4.

嗯，你已經做了一些數學計算。我不會證實這一點，但我要說的是，我們認為，考慮到第三季的產品組合，它的毛利率可能會比第二季略高，但可能在同一範圍內。我們確實看到第四季有所改善。

Great. Thanks a lot, guys.

偉大的。非常感謝大家。

Thank you everyone for listening.

謝謝大家的聆聽。

Okay. This is Jim. I'll be retiring from Ciena at the end of August, and this is therefore my last call, as Gary said, as CFO. I've greatly enjoyed getting to know all of you, and I wish you well in all of your future endeavors. I also look forward to seeing many of you at the end of this month in New York and Boston, that will be fun, and I'm looking forward to it.

好的。這是吉姆。我將於 8 月底從 Ciena 退休，因此，正如 Gary 所說，這是我作為財務長的最後一次通話。我很高興認識你們所有人，並祝福你們在未來的一切努力中一切順利。我也期待本月底在紐約和波士頓見到你們中的許多人，那將會很有趣，我很期待。

For those of you who are in the enviable position of having recommended Ciena for purchase, I believe you made a good call, a great call, actually. For those of you who are not yet in that position, there is still time to get in on what I believe is a very bright future for this company. Good luck to all.

對於那些令人羨慕地推薦購買 Ciena 的人來說，我相信你們做出了一個正確的決定，實際上是一個非常棒的決定。對於那些尚未達到這一水平的人來說，仍然有時間參與我認為非常光明的公司未來。祝大家好運。

Thank you, Jim. Thank you, everyone. We look forward to connecting with you over the next few weeks.

謝謝你，吉姆。謝謝大家。我們期待在接下來的幾週內與您聯繫。

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。