BW LPG Ltd (BWLP) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone. A warm welcome to BW LPG's fourth-quarter 2024 results. My name is Aline Anliker and I'm the Head of Corporate Communications for BW LPG. Today's presentation will be given by our CEO, Kristian; and our CFO, Samantha. Afterwards, we will open up for a Q&A session.

大家好。熱烈歡迎 BW LPG 2024 年第四季的業績。我叫 Aline Anliker，是 BW LPG 的企業傳播主管。今天的演講將由我們的執行長克里斯蒂安 (Kristian) 進行；以及我們的財務長薩曼莎（Samantha）。之後，我們將進入問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Before we begin, I would like to highlight the legal disclaimers displayed on the current slide. Please also note that today's call is being recorded. I will now give the word to our CEO, Kristian.

（操作員指示）在我們開始之前，我想強調一下目前投影片上顯示的法律免責聲明。另請注意，今天的通話正在錄音。現在我將發言權交給我們的執行長克里斯蒂安。

Thank you, Aline, and hi, everyone, and thank you for taking the time to be with us today as we review our 2024 Q4 financial results and recent developments.

謝謝你，艾琳，大家好，謝謝你們今天抽出時間與我們一起回顧我們 2024 年第四季度的財務業績和最新發展。

Let's turn to slide 4, please. For a large part of the quarter, the spot market rates fluctuated in the $35,000 to $40,000 range per day. And our TCE income per available day ended at $37,900. This is somewhat lower than previous quarter, but above our guiding of $36,000 per day.

請翻到第 4 張投影片。在本季的大部分時間裡，現貨市場價格每天在 35,000 美元至 40,000 美元之間波動。我們每天的 TCE 收入最終達到 37,900 美元。這比上一季略低，但高於我們預期的每天 36,000 美元。

The Board has declared a dividend of $0.42 per share, which consists of 75% payout of the NPAT from our shipping activities, topped up with an additional dividend declared from Product Services for 2024. Total dividend for the year represents 123% payout ratio of our total shipping NPAT. We're very happy with our Product Services results last year. The investment we made back in November '22 is already returned with a tidy profits. We do recognize that the accounting result of Product Services is challenging to decipher.

董事會宣布派發每股 0.42 美元的股息，其中包括來自航運活動的 NPAT 派息 75%，加上產品服務部門宣布的 2024 年額外股息。全年股息占我們總航運稅後利潤的 123% 派息率。我們對去年的產品服務業績非常滿意。我們在 22 年 11 月進行的投資已經獲得豐厚的利潤。我們確實認識到產品服務的會計結果很難解讀。

And we would recommend that our investors and analysts focus on Product Services realized results as a guidance on the actual trading performance. The unrealized cargo and paper positions are just showing the change in valuation from end date of one quarter compared to end date of the next quarter and do not necessarily show a loss when the positions are realized.

我們建議我們的投資人和分析師專注於產品服務的實現結果，作為實際交易表現的指導。未實現的貨物和紙張頭寸僅顯示從一個季度結束日期與下一個季度結束日期相比的估值變化，並且不一定顯示頭寸實現時的損失。

Moving on to our ship asset side. We closed Avance Gas transaction as planned, and all 12 VLGCs were well delivered to BW LPG by New Year's Eve. The acquisition has further solidified our position as the world's leading owner and operator of VLGCs with a current owned and operated fleet of 52 vessels, of which 22 are equipped with LPG dual fuel propulsion technology.

接下來是我們的船舶資產方面。我們按計劃完成了Avance Gas交易，所有12艘VLGC在除夕前順利交付給BW LPG。此次收購進一步鞏固了我們作為世界領先 VLGC 擁有者和營運商的地位，目前我們擁有並營運 52 艘船舶，其中 22 艘配備了 LPG 雙燃料推進技術。

In addition, we have added to our own fleet with a previous declared purchase option of the 2019-built BW Kizoku, which was delivered to us earlier this month at a purchase price of $69.8 million. Some weeks ago, we also exercised the purchase option of the 2020-built sister vessel, BW Yushi, with an equally attractive purchase price of around $70 million when the vessel is delivered to us in Q2.

此外，我們還透過先前宣布的購買選擇權擴充了我們自己的船隊，該選擇權是 2019 年建造的 BW Kizoku，該船已於本月初交付給我們，購買價格為 6980 萬美元。幾週前，我們還行使了 2020 年建造的姊妹船 BW Yushi 的購買選擇權，當該船在第二季度交付給我們時，購買價格同樣具有吸引力，約為 7000 萬美元。

On the sales side, we concluded the sale and delivery of the 2007-built BW Cedar earlier this month, and it was generating about $65 million in proceeds and a net book gain of $32 million. Looking at our chartering activities. We have, over the last months, concluded several time charters with commencements throughout 2025.

在銷售方面，我們本月初完成了 2007 年建造的 BW Cedar 的銷售和交付，並產生了約 6500 萬美元的收益和 3200 萬美元的賬面淨收益。看看我們的租船活動。過去幾個月，我們已簽訂了幾份將於 2025 年開始的定期租船合約。

And at the moment, we have 31% of our fleet exposure covered by time charter out at $44,800 per day and 2% covered by FFA hedges at $50,600 per day for calendar year 2025. This is following our strategy to maintain a solid time charter ratio to sustain the volatility in the spot market.

目前，對於 2025 日曆年，我們有 31% 的船隊風險透過定期租船合約承保，租金為每天 44,800 美元，2% 的船隊風險透過 FFA 對沖合約承保，租金為每天 50,600 美元。這符合我們的策略，即維持穩定的定期租船比率，以承受現貨市場的波動。

On the market outlook, the VLGC market fundamentals are positive, although the spot market currently is battling in the seasonal winter trough with less cargoes for export from the US spot rates are hovering mid-$20,000 per day from the Middle East as well as from the US Gulf, but we anticipate more volumes from the US when we move into the April loading window.

在市場前景方面，VLGC 市場基本面是積極的，儘管現貨市場目前正處於季節性冬季低谷，從美國出口的貨物較少，但從中東和美國墨西哥灣出口的現貨價格徘徊在每天 20,000 美元左右，但我們預計，進入 4 月份裝貨窗口後，來自美國的出口量會增加。

And together with the rest of the shipping industry, we are closely following the geopolitical and regulatory developments, and we'll take the measures, if necessary, to optimize our company position by using our size and commercial platform. The Panama Canal is operating basically at full capacity, and the VLGCs currently absorb about two to three canal slots per day, which is equivalent to 25% of the Neo Panama Canal traffic.

和航運業的其他企業一樣，我們密切關注地緣政治和監管發展，並在必要時採取措施，利用我們的規模和商業平台來優化公司地位。巴拿馬運河目前基本上滿載運轉，超大型氣體運輸船目前每天可佔用約兩至三個運河艙位，相當於新巴拿馬運河運輸量的25%。

So if the capacity is limited to around 10 transits in total per day, it goes without saying that the canal is very sensitive for sudden increases of one or two more dry cargo container or LNG vessels competing for the slots.

因此，如果每天的運輸能力被限制在10艘左右，那麼毫無疑問，運河對於突然增加的一兩艘乾貨貨櫃或液化天然氣船隻爭奪艙位的情況非常敏感。

Looking towards the middle of 2025, we will have a terminal expansion from Energy Transfer on the US Gulf Coast. This is an expansion, which can flex between LPG and ethane exports. And we currently assume 50% of the volumes to be designated for LPG. We have more details on this on slide 7. But for obvious reasons, we view the terminal expansion plans in the US and the Middle East as a positive driver for the VLGC market when matched against the growing demand side in Asia.

展望 2025 年中期，我們將在美國墨西哥灣沿岸進行 Energy Transfer 碼頭擴建。這是一種可以在液化石油氣和乙烷出口之間靈活調整的擴張。我們目前假設其中 50% 的量被指定用於液化石油氣。幻燈片 7 上有更多詳細資訊。但出於顯而易見的原因，我們認為，與亞洲不斷增長的需求相比，美國和中東的碼頭擴建計劃將對 VLGC 市場產生積極推動作用。

One thing to keep an eye on is the accelerating dry docking program for the VLGC fleet this year with about 80 of a total of 400 ships being scheduled for docking in 2025 compared to 35 last year. And the FFA market is pricing in a substantial uptick in the spot rates later in the year and is currently trading at levels translating to low $40,000 per day, although with limited liquidity.

值得關注的一件事是今年 VLGC 船隊的乾船塢計劃正在加速，總共 400 艘船中約有 80 艘計劃於 2025 年乾船塢，而去年只有 35 艘。FFA 市場預計今年稍後現貨價格將大幅上漲，目前的交易價格約為每天 40,000 美元，儘管流動性有限。

So let's turn to page 6 for a closer look at the market fundamentals, please. Looking at the details and the market for the first months of 2025, the spot market has shown a seasonal lack of momentum with less cargoes from the US made available for exports compared to Q4.

請讓我們翻到第 6 頁來仔細了解市場基本面。從 2025 年頭幾個月的詳細情況和市場情況來看，現貨市場表現出季節性動力不足，與第四季相比，美國可供出口的貨物減少。

At the same time, the Middle East exports were dominated by cargo flows by Indian charters. Normally, this time of the year, we do see a turning point with a handful of more US cargoes made available for the international markets. And in a finely balanced market like we are now, the sensitivity of plus/minus five to six cargoes a month is enough to drive the market up or down.

同時，中東出口以印度租船的貨物運輸為主。通常，每年的這個時候，我們都會看見一個轉折點，即有更多的美國貨物進入國際市場。在目前這種微妙平衡的市場中，每月增加或減少五到六批貨物的敏感度就足以推動市場上漲或下跌。

The more exciting factor in the VLGC market this and next year is the expansion of the US export terminal capacity, which we anticipate will push the US VLGC exports towards the mid-60 million tonnes per year mark by end of 2026. In such case, it's representing an approximate 12% increase from the 2024 VLGC export volumes.

今年和明年 VLGC 市場更令人興奮的因素是美國出口碼頭容量的擴張，我們預計到 2026 年底，這將推動美國 VLGC 出口量達到每年約 6,000 萬噸。在這種情況下，它代表 2024 年 VLGC 出口量將增加約 12%。

On this slide, we have summarized the export terminal expansion projects in the US and Canada as well as the Middle East. The number of projects represent a substantial increase in LPG export capacity of about 45% by 2028, and for North America, specifically, about 66% increase. This is if we assume the flex capacity at US terminals being in full LPG service. If all the flex capacity is designated to ethane, which we believe is unlikely, it will still represent about 29% growth in LPG export capacity for North America and the Middle East combined.

在這張投影片上，我們總結了美國、加拿大和中東的出口碼頭擴建計畫。這些項目意味著到2028年LPG出口能力將大幅增加約45%，而對北美來說，具體來說將增加約66%。這是如果我們假設美國終端的彈性容量完全用於液化石油氣服務。如果所有彈性產能都用於乙烷（我們認為這種情況不太可能發生），這仍將代表北美和中東地區液化石油氣出口產能合計成長約 29%。

As mentioned, we assume that the middle point of about 50% of the flex capacity will be designated for LPG. Of course, the total LPG export capacity includes all vessel sizes with VLGCs historically accounting for about 85% of the export volumes.

如上所述，我們假設約 50% 的靈活容量中間點將指定用於 LPG。當然，LPG 總出口能力包括所有船舶尺寸，其中 VLGC 歷來占出口量的 85% 左右。

We know that some of the volumes will be lifted on smaller LPG vessels, but over time, VLGCs will remain the most cost-efficient way of transporting LPG over longer distances with quick turnarounds at load and digital port terminals, allowing for higher terminal utilization. Next slide, please. The overall landscape remains largely unchanged since the last update.

我們知道，部分運輸量將由較小的 LPG 船舶承擔，但隨著時間的推移，VLGC 仍將是長距離運輸 LPG 最具成本效益的方式，其裝載和數位港口碼頭的周轉速度很快，可以提高碼頭利用率。請看下一張投影片。自上次更新以來，整體情況基本保持不變。

In Asia, demand for LPG continues to grow, driven by the residential sector in the Indian subcontinent as well as Southeast Asia. While China's petrochemical industry is steadily increasing its use of propane as feedstock for its PDH plants.

在亞洲，受印度次大陸以及東南亞住宅部門的推動，液化石油氣的需求持續成長。而中國的石化產業正穩定增加使用丙烷作為PDH工廠的原料。

What's interesting to note from last week's news is that there is increased attention at government level about India potentially importing more of their energy from the US in the future to diversify their sourcing of energy. If this materializes, it will add significant ton miles compared to today's Middle East India (inaudible) trades.

值得注意的是，上週的新聞表明，印度政府越來越關注未來可能從美國進口更多能源，以實現能源來源多元化。如果這一目標實現，與今天的中東印度（聽不清楚）貿易相比，它將增加大量的噸位英里。

And another trend is that VLGCs cover a larger part of the India LPG imports at the cost of smaller vessels due to improved infrastructure and terminal capacity. And more VLGCs are consequently going to serve the growing Indian imports of LPG. If you look at the VLGC fleet and newbuildings, there is not much change from last quarter, except for four more vessels added to the list with delivery 2027, '28. There is good visibility on the newbuilding deliveries over the next 18 months. And for 2025, we have 13 vessels on our list.

另一個趨勢是，由於基礎設施和碼頭容量的改善，VLGC 以小型船舶為代價，佔據了印度 LPG 進口量的很大一部分。因此，將有更多的超大型液化石油氣運輸船 (VLGC) 來滿足印度日益增長的液化石油氣 (LPG) 進口需求。如果你看一下 VLGC 船隊和新造船，你會發現與上一季相比沒有太大變化，只是名單上增加了四艘船隻，交付時間為 2027 年、2028 年。未來 18 個月新船交付情況良好。到 2025 年，我們的名單上將有 13 艘船。

And then I turn the microphone to you, Samantha.

然後我把麥克風轉向你，莎曼珊。

Thank you, Kristian, and hello, everyone. In the past winter quarter, where low activities were experienced, we have achieved a 96% fleet utilization and a TCE of USD36,700 per calendar day or $37,900 per available day. This is in part thanks to our consistent strategy execution using healthy level time charter and FFA for coverage, avoid leaving earnings purely to spot market swings.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安，大家好。在過去的冬季季度，活動較少，但我們的車隊利用率達到了 96%，TCE 為每日曆日 36,700 美元或每可用日 37,900 美元。這在一定程度上要歸功於我們一貫執行的策略，即採用健康水準的定期租船和FFA作為保障，避免將收益純粹交給現貨市場波動。

The benefit is clear when you look at the difference between the spot rate, excluding FFA, which is $31,600 a day this quarter and spot rate including FFA, which is $35,400 per day as shown in the slide here. In Q4, the time charter portfolio was 38% of the total shipping exposure, supporting the earnings when the spot market softened.

當您查看不包括FFA的即期匯率（本季為每天 31,600 美元）與包括FFA的即期匯率（本季為每天 35,400 美元）之間的差異時，收益就顯而易見了，如此幻燈片所示。第四季度，定期租船組合佔總航運風險敞口的38%，在現貨市場走軟時支撐了獲利。

For Q1 2025, we have fixed 91% of the available fleet days at about $36,000 per day. Looking ahead, our time charter out fleet is estimated to generate a profit of around USD 22 million of our time charter in fleet with the balance of our fixed time charter out portfolio estimated to bring additional $137 million for 2025.

針對 2025 年第一季度，我們已將 91% 的可用船隊天數固定為每天約 36,000 美元。展望未來，我們的定期租船船隊預計將產生約 2,200 萬美元的利潤，而我們的固定定期租船船隊餘額預計將在 2025 年帶來額外的 1.37 億美元利潤。

Next slide, please. On Product Services side, the business achieved a gross profit of USD15 million, which included a remarkable realized profit of USD59 million, which represents the money in the bank from our successful trading activities. The unrealized cargo and paper position has seen some notable mark-to-market changes this quarter, total of USD44 million.

請看下一張投影片。在產品服務方面，業務實現了1500萬美元的毛利，其中包括5900萬美元的可觀的實現利潤，這是由我們成功的交易活動積累起來的銀行資金。本季度，未實現貨物和紙張頭寸出現了一些顯著的按市價變化，總計 4,400 萬美元。

After accounting for G&A, tax, et cetera, Product Services closed off the quarter with a net profit of USD 3.4 million. As we mentioned in previous quarters, the large sum of mark-to-market value is due to the gradual phase-in of our multiple-year term contract. While the amount is significant, it is only a delta reflected on the balance sheet date and will continue to fluctuate before the positions are realized.

扣除一般行政費用、稅金等費用後，產品服務部門本季的淨利為 340 萬美元。正如我們在前幾個季度所提到的，以市價計算的價值如此之大，是由於我們逐步實施多年期合約。雖然金額很大，但它只是資產負債表日反映的一個增量，在部位實現之前還會繼續波動。

As of the end 2024, Product Services book equity reported USD130 million. As usual, we would like to highlight that the reported book equity does not include the unrealized physical shipping position of $14 million, which was based on our internal valuation.

截至2024年底，產品服務帳面權益為1.3億美元。像往常一樣，我們想強調的是，報告的帳面權益不包括 1400 萬美元的未實現實物運輸頭寸，該頭寸基於我們的內部估值。

In Q4, our average value at risk was USD7 million, reflecting a well-balanced trading book, including cargoes, shipping and derivatives, even with the increased volume from the mentioned term contract. Coming to the financial highlights. The company reported a net profit after tax of $40 million in Q4, including a profit of $17 million from BW LPG India and $3 million from Product Services.

在第四季度，我們的平均風險價值為 700 萬美元，反映出包括貨物、航運和衍生性商品在內的交易帳簿均衡，即使上述定期合約的交易量有所增加。我們來看看財務亮點。該公司報告第四季度稅後淨利潤為 4000 萬美元，其中 BW LPG India 利潤 1700 萬美元，產品服務利潤 300 萬美元。

Profit attributable to equity holders of the company was $31 million for the quarter, which translates to an earnings per share of $0.22 per share and an annualized earnings yield of 8% when calculated on our year-end share price. The Q4 dividend concluded 2024 with a total dividend of $2.42 per share.

本季歸屬於公司股東的利潤為 3,100 萬美元，以年末股價計算，每股收益為 0.22 美元，年化收益率為 8%。2024 年第四季股利結束時，總股利為每股 2.42 美元。

We reported a net leverage ratio of 33% in Q4, an increase from 12% in Q3. This increase was mainly driven by the additional borrowings used to finance the Avance Gas fleet, with the last vessel delivered on 31st December, a perfect conclusion for the eventful year. Compared with the previous quarter, we increased borrowings by $628 million, including drawdowns from our revolving credit facilities, shareholder bridge loan and transfer of Chinese leasing.

我們報告第四季的淨槓桿率為 33%，高於第三季的 12%。這一增長主要得益於用於資助 Avance Gas 船隊的額外借款，最後一艘船於 12 月 31 日交付，為這一多事的一年畫上了完美的句號。與上一季相比，我們的借款增加了 6.28 億美元，其中包括從循環信貸額度中提取的款項、股東過橋貸款以及中國租賃的轉讓。

For Q4, the board declared a dividend of $0.42 per share, which consists of a 75% paydown of our shipping profits, topped up by $0.28 dividend from Product Services. The dividend showcases the function of Product Services to stabilize and enhance the returns to the shareholders when the shipping market softens.

對於第四季度，董事會宣布派發每股 0.42 美元的股息，其中包括 75% 的航運利潤，加上產品服務部門發放的 0.28 美元股息。股息反映了產品服務在航運市場疲軟時穩定和提高股東回報的作用。

It also speaks to our strategy execution ability and our ongoing commitment to return value to shareholders. As the Q4 ends, the balance sheet reported a shareholder equity of USD1.9 billion. The annualized return on equity and capital employed for Q4 were 9% and 7%, respectively.

這也體現了我們的策略執行能力以及我們持續為股東帶來回報的承諾。截至第四季末，資產負債表顯示股東權益為 19 億美元。第四季的年化股本回報率和資本使用回報率分別為 9% 和 7%。

Our 2024 OpEx concluded at $8,300 per day, a marginal reduction than last quarter reported. For 2025, we expect that the operating cash breakeven for our owned fleet to be about $19,800 and for the total fleet including time-charter vessels to be $22,200.

我們的 2024 年營運支出為每天 8,300 美元，比上一季報告的數字略有減少。到 2025 年，我們預計我們自有船隊的營運現金損益平衡點約為 19,800 美元，包括定期租船在內的整個船隊的營運現金損益平衡點約為 22,200 美元。

The all-in cash breakeven is estimated to be $25,600, driven primarily by dry dock program in 2025 and increased interest costs. On the liquidity side, we ended '24 with a healthy position of $603 million post completion of the Avance Gas fleet delivery, supported by $232 million in cash and $371 million in undrawn revolver facilities.

全現金損益平衡估計為 25,600 美元，主要受 2025 年乾船塢計畫和利息成本增加的影響。在流動性方面，在 Avance Gas 船隊交付完成後，我們在 24 年底的流動性狀況為 6.03 億美元，並有 2.32 億美元現金和 3.71 億美元未提取的循環信貸額度作為支撐。

The repayment profile, as you can see here, is healthy and sustainable. We plan to refinance a few facilities starting from this year to achieve a more efficient leverage. The refinancing is not expected to further increase the current leverage ratio. On the Product Services side, trade finance utilization stood on a moderate level of $168 million or 21% of our available credit line, giving sufficient room for future trading needs.

正如您所看到的，還款狀況是健康且可持續的。我們計劃從今年開始對一些設施進行再融資，以實現更有效的槓桿率。預計此次再融資不會進一步提高目前的槓桿率。在產品服務方面，貿易融資利用率處於中等水平，為 1.68 億美元，占我們可用信用額度的 21%，為未來的貿易需求提供了充足的空間。

With that, I would like to conclude my updates, and back to you, Aline.

至此，我想結束我的更新，然後回到你這裡，Aline。

Thank you, Samantha. We would now like to open the call for your questions. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你，薩曼莎。我們現在想開始回答你們的提問。（操作員指令）

We have Charles here raising his hand.

查爾斯在這裡舉手。

(technical difficulty) financing process that you have used during the addition of new ships, could you explain to me and to us that your strategy where you're using the ship -- the issuance of stock for the ship as a financing method and also connect that with your rationale or paying out more dividends than you are actually earning for that particular period? That's it.

(技術難題) 您在增加新船時使用的融資流程，您能否向我和我們解釋一下您使用船舶的策略——發行船舶股票作為融資方式，並將其與您的理由聯繫起來，或者支付比您在特定時期實際賺取的更多的股息？就是這樣。

Thanks, Charles, for your question. If I understood it, I couldn't hear you that well, you broke up a little bit. But with regards to the share issuance, we issued shares back last year in connection with the Avance Gas transaction when the share price was trading closer to our NAV. So they were issued in a way which were regarded as accretive to the shareholders at the time. And we can use the share as a currency. There was a second question, I didn't really catch it. If you could please repeat.

謝謝查爾斯你的提問。如果我理解正確的話，我就聽不太清楚你說什麼，你有點崩潰了。但就股票發行而言，我們去年在 Avance Gas 交易中發行了股票，當時股價更接近我們的資產淨值。因此，這些債券的發行方式在當時被視為對股東有益。我們可以使用股票作為貨幣。還有第二個問題，我沒聽清楚。如果可以的話請重複一遍。

Of course. My second question is what is your thinking and strategy in paying out dividends that are in excess of earnings? Is this a share stabilization strategy? Is this something that maybe is temporary?

當然。我的第二個問題是，您在支付超過收益的股息時的想法和策略是什麼？這是一種股價穩定策略嗎？這可能是暫時的嗎？

So thank you. So this is a temporary thing because we are paying out dividends from the Product Services result of 2024. If you look at how the dividend is constructed, it's 75% of the shipping NPAT and then topped up with dividends that we -- are paid out from Product Services. So we're not really paying out more than we earn in such case.

所以謝謝你。所以這只是暫時的，因為我們正在根據 2024 年的產品服務業績支付股息。如果你看看股利是如何構成的，它佔運輸稅後利潤的 75%，然後再加上我們從產品服務中支付的股利。因此在這種情況下我們實際上付出的並沒有超過我們的收入。

If anyone else would like to raise his/her hand? We have [John Dickson], please unmute yourself and proceed.

還有誰想舉手嗎？我們有 [John Dickson]，請取消靜音並繼續。

Kristian, my question is really related to the potential tariffs that the United States is leveraging against China. Do you have any idea of how that type of situation would impact the trade between the United States and China as it relates to LPG?

克里斯蒂安，我的問題其實與美國針對中國可能採取的關稅有關。您是否知道這種情況會對美國和中國之間的液化石油氣貿易產生什麼影響？

That's a great question, which is not so easy to answer. I don't really want to speculate because when it comes to the tariffs on LPG, there are not such tariffs at the moment. And of course, we're monitoring the developments closely, like I said, both on the regulatory and the commercial side.

這個問題問得很好，但不太容易回答。我其實不想猜測，因為談到液化石油氣的關稅，目前還沒有這樣的關稅。當然，正如我所說，我們正在密切關注監管和商業方面的發展。

And when you have facts on the table, we will, of course, evaluate and take measures, if necessary, to position a company in an optimal way by using our size and also the commercial platform, which gives us significant flexibility to position the fleet and the portfolio in the most optimal way, depending on the prevailing market conditions and circumstances.

當你掌握事實時，我們當然會進行評估，並在必要時採取措施，利用我們的規模和商業平台，以最佳方式定位公司，這使我們能夠根據當前的市場條件和情況，以最佳方式定位船隊和投資組合。

But it's very hard for me to speculate on anything at the current moment, and we need to -- what we're doing, we're acting on facts when we have them in front of us at the table.

但目前我很難對任何事情進行推測，我們需要──當我們面前擺放事實時，我們就會根據事實採取行動。

I understand. Also, my second question is kind of related to Charles' question. When I'm looking at your shares, they're actually trading at least in the US market at a discount to your last 10 years of net income. As you're paying down the debt, obviously, the other 25% of your earnings, you can either use that to pay down debt, cover operating expenses or give out dividends. But my question is, are you guys looking at any type of share buyback with your shares trading at such a reasonable level?

我明白。另外，我的第二個問題與查爾斯的問題有點相關。當我看到你的股票時，它們實際上至少在美國市場上的交易價格低於你過去 10 年的淨收入。當你償還債務時，顯然，你可以使用剩餘 25% 的收入來償還債務、支付營運費用或發放股息。但我的問題是，在你們的股票交易價格如此合理的情況下，你們是否考慮進行任何類型的股票回購？

So if you look back to last year, we activated our share buyback program the last time. And we do have mandate to reactivate share buyback program as well. So this is something we consider when we believe it's -- the time is right, we may do so also in the future. So we have done so in the past.

所以如果你回顧去年，我們最後一次啟動了股票回購計畫。我們確實也有權力重新啟動股票回購計畫。所以，當我們認為時機成熟時，我們會考慮這一點，將來我們也可能會這樣做。過去我們也這樣做過。

Anyone else who would like to verbally ask a question? Yes, we have Boris.

還有誰想口頭提問嗎？是的，我們有鮑里斯。

My question relates to the increased debt ratio. What is your strategy as far as reducing the ratio, maybe you're going to keep it the same way? And how is that going to affect your dividend payout?

我的問題與債務比率上升有關。就降低該比例而言，您的策略是什麼？這將如何影響您的股息支付？

Maybe just to share a little bit of a history is that we -- through the past, I would say, 2023, 2024, because of the good earnings, we have had an opportunity to pay down debt to the extent that there was one quarter reported leverage ratio of 12%. And I think that is an extreme situation where the equity holder will probably render that is not a very effective, how to say, leverage level.

也許只是分享一點歷史，我們 - 在過去，我想說，2023 年、2024 年，由於良好的盈利，我們有機會償還債務，以至於有一個季度報告的槓桿率為 12%。我認為這是一種極端的情況，股權持有人可能會認為這不是一種非常有效的槓桿水平。

So through the Avance Gas fleet acquisition, now the leverage ratio is just slightly above 30%. And we believe we are at a healthy level and throughout the time and the cash flow from operations will gradually pay down the debt and equally paid out to the shareholder as well via dividend, provided that there is no other opportunities in the market.

因此，透過收購 Avance Gas 船隊，現在的槓桿率略高於 30%。我們相信，我們處於健康水平，隨著時間的推移，營運產生的現金流將逐步償還債務，並透過股息平等地支付給股東，前提是市場上沒有其他機會。

Happy to say that we have a very healthy liquidity right now, as we have shown in our liquidity slide. And the further refinancing is not going to further increase our leverage ratio. It's only to refinance the existing facilities.

很高興地說，我們現在擁有非常健康的流動性，正如我們在流動性幻燈片中所顯示的那樣。進一步的再融資不會進一步增加我們的槓桿率。這只是為了對現有設施進行再融資。

And just to follow up on that, are you seeking to pay out 100% of the earnings over a longer term? Or are you looking to use some of the earnings to reduce leverage?

再問一下，您是否希望在較長時期內支付 100％ 的收益？或者您想利用部分收益來降低槓桿率？

Well, I think that really depends. I think that -- well, it's our responsibility to reduce the leverage. So it will be equally have considered to pay down our debt as well as giving back to our shareholders. If you look at the history for '23 and '24, we have been both able to return a good dividend close to mid-90% for the past two years to the shareholders as well as significantly pay down the debt.

嗯，我認為這確實取決於情況。我認為－降低槓桿率是我們的責任。因此，我們既會考慮償還債務，也會考慮回饋股東。如果回顧 23 年和 24 年的歷史，我們過去兩年不僅能夠向股東返還接近 90% 左右的豐厚股息，還能大幅償還債務。

Next, we have Harry with Ford. Harry, we can't hear you yet. I've noticed that you've unmuted yourself, but we cannot hear you. So maybe let's proceed with Axel Styrman. And please, Harry come back if you can afterwards.

接下來有請哈利和福特。哈利，我們還聽不到你的聲音。我注意到您已取消靜音，但我們聽不到您的聲音。因此我們可以繼續討論 Axel Styrman。哈利，如果可以的話，請稍後再回來。

Please Axel, if you want to go first.

阿克塞爾，如果你想先走的話，請說。

Yes. Just a question. You commented on potential tariffs, Kristian. But the latest now have moved from the US regarding Chinese vessels.

是的。只是一個問題。克里斯蒂安，您對潛在的關稅進行了評論。但現在美國針對中國船隻又有了新的舉動。

Of course, that proposal from a trade representative is out on hearing waiting for reactions until 24th of March. But during the Avance transaction, you acquired 8 Chinese-built ships and you have, as far as I know, only Chinese-built ships, except from three ships you have in the pool, which you likely could redeliver or negotiate out of the pool if this new proposal is being realized with the fees trading on US ports.

當然，貿易代表的這項提議正在等待聽證會的回應，截止日期為 3 月 24 日。但在 Avance 交易期間，您收購了 8 艘中國製造的船舶，而且據我所知，除了聯營池中的三艘船舶外，您擁有的船舶全部都是中國製造的。

Since the US has nearly 50% of the global LPG trade, this is, of course, very important. I'm just wondering if you -- if this materializes, what is your plan regarding the Chinese-built vessels?

由於美國佔全球液化石油氣貿易的近50%，因此這一點當然非常重要。我只是想知道，如果這項計劃實現，您對中國製造的船隻有何計劃？

Thanks, Axel. Yes, like I said, it's hard for us to speculate on anything. And we will, of course, evaluate and take the necessary measures, if necessary, if this is imposed. And if you look at our commercial platform, which I alluded to also in the presentation, we have ways to employ our vessels outside of the U.S. market, if necessary.

謝謝，阿克塞爾。是的，就像我說的，我們很難對任何事情進行推測。當然，如果實施這項措施，我們將進行評估，並在必要時採取必要措施。如果你看看我們的商業平台，我在演示中也提到過，如果有必要，我們有辦法在美國市場以外使用我們的船隻。

So we will come back with how we plan to deploy these ships if it's something which becomes necessary. So I think apart from that, it's not easy for me at this point in time to be more specific. But I'm sure we will be able to navigate through challenging waters, thanks to our size and commercial platform.

因此，如果有必要，我們將重新考慮如何部署這些船隻。因此我認為除此之外，目前我還很難說得更具體。但我確信，憑藉我們的規模和商業平台，我們將能夠渡過難關。

Just a follow-up. I mean, obviously, it's possible to trade the Chinese-built ships from the Middle East, for example. But these potential fees also apply if you own Chinese-built vessels, not only calling U.S. ports, but if you just own Chinese-built ship, but -- is this something you can comment on now? Or...

只是後續行動。我的意思是，顯然可以從中東貿易中國製造的船隻。但是，如果您擁有中國製造的船隻，不僅停靠美國港口，而且如果您只是擁有中國製造的船隻，這些潛在費用也同樣適用，但是 - 您現在可以對此發表評論嗎？或者...

It's -- as you said, the legislative proposal is out for -- on public hearing. So it's something which is difficult for us to comment on. If you look at the size of the world fleet, which is built in China regardless of shipping segment, I think, as a general comment, it will have a very disruptive implications on the whole shipping market.

正如您所說，該立法提案已提交公開聽證會。因此我們很難對此發表評論。如果你看看中國建造的世界船隊的規模，無論航運領域如何，我認為，總體而言，這將對整個航運市場產生非常破壞性的影響。

So I don't think if you look at the market today, trading houses, shipping companies, oil and energy majors, all have Chinese-built vessels in their fleets. So with that in mind, let's see exactly what comes out of the public hearing.

因此我認為，如果你看看今天的市場，貿易公司、航運公司、石油和能源巨頭的船隊中並不都有中國製造的船隻。考慮到這一點，讓我們看看公開聽證會究竟會有什麼樣的結果。

Just a final question to the P&L on the charter hire expenses. You booked approximately $1.2 million profit. Can you comment on this? How did that actually happen?

最後一個問題是關於租船費用損益表。您獲得了大約 120 萬美元的利潤。您能對此發表評論嗎？這究竟是怎麼發生的？

Samantha?

莎曼珊？

Yes. Can you please be specific, Axel? Were you --

是的。阿克塞爾，你能具體說一下嗎？你是--

As a charter hire expenses, which this -- for this quarter, actually, you booked a profit of $1.173 million. So I'm just wondering how did that -- what happened there? How did you end up with a net positive charter hire expense?

作為租船費用，實際上，本季度您實現了 117.3 萬美元的利潤。所以我只是想知道那是怎麼發生的——那裡發生了什麼事？您為什麼最終獲得了淨正的租船費用？

Yes. I -- that's -- let me think -- that is pertaining to one of the vessels off-hire, which is our higher income as we booked.

是的。我 — — 這是 — — 讓我想想 — — 這是關於其中一艘停租船隻，這是我們預訂的較高收入。

Harry with Ford, if you would like to try again to meet yourself, please? Unfortunately, we still can't hear you, but you can also type your question in the Q&A chat, if you'd like. We can't hear you, unfortunately. Sorry about that. Anyone else who would like to raise the hand.

哈利和福特，你願意再試一次見見自己嗎？不幸的是，我們仍然聽不到您的聲音，但是如果您願意，您也可以在問答聊天中輸入您的問題。遺憾的是，我們聽不到您的聲音。很抱歉。還有誰願意舉手嗎？

If not, we would then proceed to the questions that were typed into the chat. So in the chat, we have [Tushar Chadda] asking, do you expect the asset price to soften in coming years due to increase in vessel supply? If yes, do you have any plans to further expand your fleet?

如果沒有，我們將繼續討論在聊天中輸入的問題。因此在聊天中，我們 [Tushar Chadda] 問道，您是否預計未來幾年資產價格會因船舶供應增加而走軟？如果是，您是否有進一步擴大船隊的計劃？

So we do not see any signs of asset prices softening neither on the newbuilding prices nor on the secondhand values. They're all holding up also for forward delivery. So -- and we are happy with the fleet we currently have and don't have any plans to expand any further at this point in time.

因此，我們沒有看到資產價格有任何走軟的跡象，無論是新船價格還是二手船價值。他們也都在等待遠期交貨。所以——我們對目前的機隊感到滿意，目前沒有進一步擴建的計劃。

Thank you, Kristian. We have another question in the chat related to the previous one on ships built in China from [Joe Mars.] Can you discuss the cost of new ships? Also how much of fleet is built in China? And what would the impact be of charges on Chinese-built ships like charges by the US?

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。我們在聊天中還有另一個問題，與 [Joe Mars] 之前提出的有關中國建造船舶的問題有關。中國還建造了多少艦隊？如果對中國製造的船舶徵收類似美國的收費，將會產生什麼影響？

Yes. So this is partly the same question, which I replied to earlier. If you look at the fleet today, just to start with that one, it's 15% of about 400 ships on the water today, which are built in China. So it's not such a big part of the fleet. Most is built in Korea and about 25% is built in Japan.

是的。因此這部分是同一個問題，我之前回答過這個問題。如果你看看今天的船隊，就從這艘船開始說，現在水上約有 400 艘船隻，其中 15% 是中國建造的。因此，它在艦隊中所佔的比例並不大。大部分是在韓國建造的，約25%是在日本建造的。

If you look at the ordering and the order book, it's -- we count about 24 ships being on order in China at the moment out of a total of close to 100 ships. So it's not big share assets, but it's obviously a substantial part of the newbuilding order book. When it comes to the impact on charges on Chinese-built ships, like discussed also with Axel Styrman, the likely scenario then is that you end up trading the ships elsewhere, and fewer vessels are available for trade on the US.

如果你看一下訂單和訂單簿，我們統計出，目前中國訂單中約有 24 艘船，總共有近 100 艘船。因此，它並不是大型股份資產，但顯然是新造船訂單的重要組成部分。至於對中國建造船舶收費的影響，正如與阿克塞爾·斯蒂爾曼討論的那樣，可能的情況是，你最終會在其他地方交易這些船舶，而在美國可供貿易的船舶會減少。

Thank you. We have one more question in the chat from Williams (inaudible). What were the most recent challenges to motivate the team?

謝謝。威廉斯在聊天中還有一個問題（聽不清楚）。激勵團隊的最新挑戰是什麼？

Wow, fantastic question. To motivate the team, it's -- we have done quite a lot over the last years in our company. So I would say that just by the share activity level in BW LPG over the last couple of years, we have a very motivated team in general. So I don't think there are any specific challenges I should list, which have kind of taken down the motivation of the team. But Samantha, I also leave to you to reply on this.

哇，這個問題問得真棒。為了激勵團隊，我們在過去幾年為公司做了很多事。因此我想說，僅從過去幾年 BW LPG 的股票活動水平來看，我們總體上是一支非常積極進取的團隊。因此，我認為我不需要列出任何具體的挑戰，這些挑戰在某種程度上削弱了團隊的動機。但是薩曼莎，我也讓你來回答這個問題。

I think it has been a remarkable two years and especially the past year from -- also from market, but most importantly as a company, the milestones that we have across, including US listing as well as the acquisition of the 12 vessels. It's landmark and milestones. So I think for what I know the company is very energized for these decisions and accomplishment that we have made. So I think the team is in high (inaudible) at the moment.

我認為這是非凡的兩年，尤其是過去的一年，從市場角度來說也是如此，但最重要的是作為一家公司，我們取得了許多里程碑，包括在美國上市以及收購 12 艘船舶。這是里程碑和里程碑。因此，據我所知，公司對我們所做的這些決定和所取得的成就感到非常高興。因此我認為球隊目前處於高度（聽不清楚）狀態。

Thank you, Samantha and Kristian. Back to a verbally asked question or raised hand from Desmond.

謝謝你，薩曼莎和克里斯蒂安。回到戴斯蒙德口頭提出的問題或舉手的問題。

I just had a quick question. Regarding that Avance Gas is now a major shareholder of BW LPG, do you anticipate any of their governance team taking a more active role in the company? Or is it a more passive kind of stake?

我只是想問一個簡單的問題。鑑於 Avance Gas 現在是 BW LPG 的主要股東，您是否預計他們的管理團隊會在公司中發揮更積極的作用？或者它是一種更被動的賭注？

Yes. So the fact is that Avance Gas has actually dividended out all their BW LPG shares to their shareholders. So Avance Gas only holds a tiny portion left in BW LPG. And when it comes to the new shareholders that we have, which, of course, are very happy with and welcoming, there are no such plans.

是的。事實是，Avance Gas 實際上已將其所有 BW LPG 股份分紅給其股東。因此，Avance Gas 僅持有 BW LPG 的一小部分。對於我們的新股東，我們當然非常高興和歡迎，但我們沒有這樣的計劃。

We have another question in the chat from John. Can you provide some information on upcoming CapEx in Q1 and FY25?

我們在聊天中還有另一個來自約翰的問題。您能否提供一些有關第一季和 25 財年即將到來的資本支出的資訊？

Samantha, would you say it's dry dockings and so on, maybe you can give some more color to it.

薩曼莎，你會說這是乾船塢等等嗎，也許你可以給它多一些顏色。

Yes. I think on the CapEx primarily reflected in 2025 is also reflected as part of the cash breakeven is primarily contributed by our planned dry docking program. If I do not remember wrongly, it's -- I should speak when I have the detailed number in front of me. It's approximately $4,000 per day for the CapEx projects. That's on average for 2025. Hopefully, that gives you a little bit of color.

是的。我認為資本支出主要反映在 2025 年，也反映為現金損益平衡的一部分，主要由我們規劃的乾船塢計畫貢獻。如果我沒記錯的話，那是——當我面前有詳細的數字時，我應該發言。資本支出項目每天約為 4,000 美元。這是 2025 年的平均值。希望這能帶給你一些啟發。

We have Harry again raising his hand. Do you want to try again, Harry? Harry? No, I can't hear you. I'm sorry.

哈利再次舉手。你想再試一次嗎，哈利？哈利？不，我聽不見你說話。對不起。

Anyone else who would like to ask a question? We have [Michael Iqbal]. We can't hear you right now. Michael, can you try again? No.

還有誰想問問題嗎？我們有[邁克爾·伊克巴爾]。我們現在無法聽到您的聲音。邁克爾，你能再試一次嗎？不。

Then we have Charles up again, please.

那麼請查爾斯再次上來。

Kristian, can you comment on what you see is the global perception problem with the industry in general? So we all see that the price to earnings multiples for shipping on a global basis is both extremely low and seems to be lately perpetually decreasing. Is there a public persona that perhaps this is going to be the subject of some sort of either a global war, sabotage or terrorism? What do you think is the global perception that is causing these incredibly low PEs? And do you see any hope on the horizon that they will be viewed with a lesser risk factor? That's it.

克里斯蒂安，您能否評論一下您認為的整個行業中存在的全球認知問題？因此，我們都看到，全球航運的本益比不僅極低，而且最近似乎一直在下降。是否存在公眾人物認為這將會成為某種全球戰爭、破壞或恐怖主義的主題？您認為是什麼樣的全球觀念導致了這些本益比極低？您是否看到了未來降低這些風險因素的希望？就是這樣。

Thanks. That's a very interesting question, actually. I think the main reason for it is the volatility in earnings over the cycle. So it's typically shares that you would like to hold when the expected earnings are on the rise. And then due to the nature of the shipping industry and the various shipping segments, this is very much a volatile market that most of us operate in.

謝謝。事實上，這是一個非常有趣的問題。我認為主要原因是周期內收益的波動。因此，當預期收益上升時，您通常會希望持有股票。而且由於航運業的性質以及各個航運部門的特點，對我們大多數人來說，這是一個非常不穩定的市場。

Having said that, that's also one of the reasons why we, in our business model, maintain a relatively high portion of our fleet in the time charter market to smoothen out this volatility as well as if you look at our strategy over the last years, we are spreading out our wings and moving into adjacent parts of the value chain so that we can take out some of the volatility on the shipping earnings at the same time as we participate in value creation in other parts of the LPG value chain, like, for instance, now with Product Services, as reflected in the dividend for Q4.

話雖如此，這也是為什麼我們的商業模式中，在定期租船市場中維持相對較高船隊比例以平滑這種波動的原因之一。

And of course, at the moment, with increased geopolitical risks and the questions you have about global trade patterns and trade in general, shipping is, in many ways, exposed to that because what's typically was good for trade is good for shipping in general and vice versa. So I think the industry is suffering a bit under the current geopolitical landscape and the circumstances.

當然，目前，隨著地緣政治風險的增加以及對全球貿易模式和整體貿易的質疑，航運在許多方面都受到這種風險的影響，因為通常對貿易有利的因素對航運總體也有利，反之亦然。因此，我認為在當前的地緣政治格局和環境下，該行業受到了一些衝擊。

John Dickson, up next.

接下來是約翰·迪克森。

Kristian, Samantha, I just had one other question. I believe it was a year or so ago, maybe 1.5 years, BW announced a joint venture in India with a port over there for distribution. And I know you're talking about the other aspects of the value chain. Can you just give us a follow-up on how that joint venture is proceeding along?

克里斯蒂安，薩曼莎，我還有一個問題。我想大概是一年前，也許是一年半前，BW 宣佈在印度建立合資企業，並在那裡設立港口進行分銷。我知道您正在談論價值鏈的其他方面。您能否向我們介紹一下該合資企業的進展？

Thanks, John. Yes. So I think we next quarter, we can have some more to inform on when it comes to the terminal. We are currently in a phase where we're putting all the last parts of the puzzle together to start the construction of the terminal. So hopefully, next quarter, we will be able to give a more, let's say, detailed update on the progress there.

謝謝，約翰。是的。因此我認為下個季度我們可以提供更多有關終端的資訊。目前，我們正處於將所有最後階段的部分拼湊在一起，以開始航站樓的建設。因此，希望下個季度我們能夠提供更詳細的進展更新。

But it's moving forward according to the plans we had. And it's going to be an exciting new part of our business when it's up and running in two, three years' time as we plan for now. So the Indian market is obviously on the back of that becoming even more important for us, but we do believe and see that the India LPG market is increasing.

但一切正按照我們的計劃進行。按照我們目前的計劃，當它在未來兩到三年內投入營運時，它將成為我們業務中令人興奮的新部分。因此，印度市場顯然對我們來說變得更加重要，但我們確實相信並看到印度液化石油氣市場正在成長。

It's great prospects for the future growth in India, and we are happy to participate in that, both on the shipping, sourcing of LPG and also eventually on the terminal side. So hopefully, we can -- we expect to update our investors more in detail by next quarter.

印度未來成長前景廣闊，我們很高興參與其中，包括液化石油氣的運輸、採購以及最終的終端方面。因此，我們希望能夠在下個季度之前向投資者提供更詳細的資訊。

Michael Iqbal, you want to try again to unmute yourself, please?

Michael Iqbal，您想再試一次取消靜音嗎？

Let's try again.

我們再試一次。

(inaudible) right now.

（聽不清楚）現在。

I was just curious is there a proposed date for payment of the dividend?

我只是好奇是否有預計支付股息的日期？

The proposed date of the payment of dividend?

擬派發股利的日期？

Yes.

是的。

Well. The proposed date of the payment of dividend is a little bit depending on which market you hold your share, Michael. So first of all is that I believe we were going to pay that out in -- actually, it's the best that if I refer to the press release just went out a day ago. Yes. So the payment of dividend, I didn't want to feed you with the wrong answer.

出色地。支付股息的提議日期有點取決於您持有股票的市場，邁克爾。首先，我相信我們會支付這筆錢——實際上，如果我參考一天前發布的新聞稿，這是最好的方法。是的。因此，關於股息的支付，我不想給你錯誤的答案。

So the dividend payout date if you held the share in Oslo Stock Exchange, it will be March 24, plus/minus. And if you hold your share in the New York Stock Exchange, it will be around March 19 for this quarter.

因此，如果您持有奧斯陸證券交易所的股票，則股息支付日期將是 3 月 24 日（上下浮動）。如果你持有紐約證券交易所的股票，那麼本季的時間將在 3 月 19 日左右。

Harry with Ford, do you want to try again? Unfortunately, we still can't hear you. Still not, unfortunately. Anyone else who has another question? If not, then let's proceed. And I will hand back to Kristian for some closing remarks.

哈利和福特，你想再試一次嗎？不幸的是，我們仍然聽不到您的聲音。不幸的是，仍然沒有。還有其他問題嗎？如果沒有，那我們就繼續。最後我將把發言權交給克里斯蒂安，請他作一些結束語。

Yes. Thank you, Aline. I think that by then, we are coming to the end of this presentation. I would like to thank everyone dialing in and listening to us and look forward to seeing you again in the next quarter. Thanks, everyone.

是的。謝謝你，艾琳。我想到那時，我們的演講快結束了。我謹感謝所有撥打電話收聽我們節目的人，並期待在下個季度再次見到你們。謝謝大家。

Thank you very much. That concludes BW LPG's fourth-quarter 2024 financial results presentation. The call transcript and the recording will be available on our website shortly. So thank you all for dialing in, and we wish you a good rest of your day.

非常感謝。這是 BW LPG 2024 年第四季財務業績報告。通話記錄和錄音將很快在我們的網站上發布。非常感謝大家撥電話，我們祝大家今天過得很愉快。