BW LPG Ltd (BWLP) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to BW LPG's first quarter 2024 financial results presentation. Bringing you through the presentation today are CEO, Kristian Sørensen and CFO Samantha Xu. We are pleased to answer questions at the end of the presentation. (Operator Instructions) Before we begin, we wish to highlight the legal disclaimers shown on the current slide. This presentation held on Zoom is also recorded.

歡迎觀看 BW LPG 2024 年第一季財務業績示範。今天為您帶來演示的是首席執行官 Kristian Särensen 和首席財務官 Samantha Xu。我們很高興在演示結束時回答問題。 （操作員說明）在開始之前，我們希望強調目前投影片上顯示的法律免責聲明。這次在 Zoom 上舉行的演講也被錄製下來。

I now turn the call over to Kristian.

我現在把電話轉給克里斯蒂安。

Hi everyone, and welcome to our 2024 Q1 presentation. Thank you for taking time to join us today as we present our financial results and recent events. It's been a busy period for our company, so let's turn to slide 4, please.

大家好，歡迎來到我們的 2024 年第一季演示。感謝您今天抽出寶貴時間加入我們，我們將介紹我們的財務表現和最近發生的事件。這是我們公司的繁忙時期，所以讓我們轉到投影片 4。

We delivered another strong quarter with a result of $150 million net profit after tax on the back of a strong time Charter equivalent of $61,500 per available day, which includes a positive IFRS adjustment of $26 million. We booked a net gain of $20 million from the sale of the BW Princess, and it was another good quarter by our trading unit BW Product Services, showing a profit of $21 million where we subsequently returned $30 million to its shareholders in April through the pre-announced capital return.

我們又一個強勁的季度實現了 1.5 億美元的稅後淨利潤，這得益於相當於每個可用日 61,500 美元的強勁定期租船合同，其中包括 2600 萬美元的 IFRS 正調整。我們從BW Princess 的出售中獲得了2000 萬美元的淨收益，這是我們的交易部門BW Product Services 的另一個好季度，利潤為2100 萬美元，隨後我們在4 月份通過預售向股東返還了3000萬美元。

The quarterly end path translates into an earnings per share of $1.07, and the board has declared $1 per share in dividends, which is equivalent to 106% of the earnings from our shipping activities, which calculates to an annualized dividend yield of 22% based on Tuesday's closing price in New York.

季度末路徑轉化為每股收益 1.07 美元，董事會宣布每股 1 美元股息，相當於我們航運業務收益的 106%，根據以下公式計算，年化股息收益率為 22%週二紐約收盤價。

On the shipping side, we have mutually agreed with Vital to terminate their pool and charter back arrangement. There is no financial impact anticipated from the termination of the agreement, and we look forward to continuing doing business together in the day-to-day Chartering markets.

在運輸方面，我們已與 Vital 共同同意終止他們的聯營和包機安排。協議終止預計不會產生財務影響，我們期待繼續在日常租船市場開展業務。

For our trading activity, we are happy to announce that Product Services have concluded a multi-year extension of their cargo contract with Enterprise Product Partners, which will significantly improve our optionality and ability to capture profit in the LPG value chain.

對於我們的貿易活動，我們很高興地宣布，產品服務公司已與企業產品合作夥伴簽訂了多年期的貨運合約延期協議，這將顯著提高我們在液化石油氣價值鏈中獲取利潤的選擇性和能力。

In addition, the transaction is enabling us to grow our business at a time when growing in shipping is more expensive than ever, and it bolsters our business model for the future markets. The expansion of our trading volumes will be financed by trading facilities already in place, and the value at risk is anticipated to only increase from $6 million to $8 million, reflecting the balanced trading portfolio that Product Services is running.

此外，這項交易使我們能夠在航運成長比以往任何時候都更昂貴的情況下發展我們的業務，並支持我們未來市場的商業模式。我們交易量的擴大將由現有的交易設施提供資金，風險價值預計只會從 600 萬美元增加到 800 萬美元，反映了產品服務部正在運行的平衡交易組合。

And finally, we are very proud about our milestone dual listing on the New York Stock Exchange. The reception in the US investor market has been very satisfactory, reflected in a 27% increase in our US-dollar denominated share price since the listing, and the share trading volume in the US is picking up.

最後，我們對在紐約證券交易所實現里程碑式的雙重上市感到非常自豪。美國投資者市場的反應非常令人滿意，上市以來我們的美元計價股價上漲了27%，而且美國的股票交易量正在回升。

Turning over to our market outlook, we remain positive on the sector, with several indicators pointing in the right direction, both in the underlying LPG commodity market as well as the supply demand balance in the VLGC markets, and this is even without disruptions in the Panama Canal.

談到我們的市場前景，我們對該行業仍然持樂觀態度，無論是基礎液化石油氣商品市場還是 VLGC 市場的供需平衡，多項指標都指向正確的方向，即使在沒有中斷的情況下也是如此。巴拿馬運河。

So let's turn to page 6 for a closer look at the market fundamentals. The US production and export volumes are still the locomotives in the LPG growth story and continue to deliver on the upside of the expectations. According to recent EIA figures, the production and export volumes are up 8% and 14%, respectively, year-to-date, compared to the same period last year.

因此，讓我們翻到第 6 頁來更仔細地了解市場基本面。美國的產量和出口量仍然是液化石油氣增長的火車頭，並繼續超出預期。根據最近的 EIA 數據，今年迄今的產量和出口量與去年同期相比分別成長了 8% 和 14%。

We maintain a positive view on the US export volumes for 2024 and 2025. We regard the CapEx plans by the US terminal companies as a positive sign for the future US LPG export volumes, and believe they will remove any potential bottlenecks for the medium term.

我們對2024年和2025年美國出口量保持樂觀。

The Middle East exports are expected to be stable for this year, unless OpEx decides on any cutback reversals, while we anticipate more volumes to come on stream from next year onwards from Abu Dhabi and later Qatar. The increasing LPG exports from the US and the Middle East are meeting a growing demand side in Asia, both for industrial purposes, well-represented by rapidly increasing demand by the Chinese PDH plans, and from the residential sector, especially in the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asian countries.

除非營運支出決定任何削減逆轉，否則今年中東的出口預計將保持穩定，而我們預計從明年起，阿布達比和隨後的卡達將增加產量。美國和中東不斷增長的液化石油氣出口正在滿足亞洲不斷增長的需求，無論是工業用途（以中國PDH計劃快速增長的需求為代表），還是住宅領域，特別是在印度次大陸和印度次大陸。 。

The Indian demand for LPG is now consuming about half of the Middle East exports, making the rest of the Asian market increasingly dependent on the US LPG exports to meet the underlying and high demand which follows growing population and prosperity. Also worthwhile to note, is that LPG, by being a byproduct from oil and natural gas production, has a history of always being priced to clear and eventually finding a home since no producers want to store LPG for a prolonged period of time.

印度對液化石油氣的需求目前消耗了中東出口量的約一半，使得亞洲其他市場越來越依賴美國液化石油氣出口來滿足人口成長和繁榮帶來的潛在高需求。另外值得注意的是，液化石油氣作為石油和天然氣生產的副產品，歷來一直被定價以澄清並最終找到歸屬，因為沒有生產商願意長期儲存液化石油氣。

And this market dynamics makes it a competitively priced energy source, which easily penetrates new markets since it's relatively easy to handle compared with other energy sources which require much higher infrastructure investments.

這種市場動態使其成為一種價格具有競爭力的能源，很容易打入新市場，因為與需要更高基礎設施投資的其他能源相比，它相對容易處理。

Let's turn to slide 7. Looking at the global VLGCs fleet balance for the next 18 to 24 months, it is a sharply abating curve of new building deliveries when we move into the second half of this year. We only have a handful of VLGCs set for delivery from the yards, while the global fleet is approaching 400 units and for 2025, only a dozen vessels are scheduled for delivery. Yards are still talking delivery for new orders more than three years forward. And this gives us good visibility of the market the next 18 to 24 months.

讓我們轉向幻燈片 7。我們只有少數幾艘 VLGC 準備從船廠交付，而全球船隊數量已接近 400 艘，到 2025 年，預計交付的船隻只有十幾艘。三年多後，船廠仍在討論新訂單的交付問題。這讓我們對未來 18 至 24 個月的市場有很好的了解。

So to summarize, the market fundamentals for both the LPG commodity markets and the VLGC markets are strong and reflected in the current rate level, which is fluctuating between $60,000 to $70,000 per day. The FFA market is priced for the reminder of this year at levels in the region low to mid $60,000 per day. And this is without any serious delays in the Panama Canal, which continue to be a wildcard also in the future.

總而言之，LPG 商品市場和 VLGC 市場的市場基本面都很強勁，並反映在當前的費率水平上，該水平每天在 60,000 美元至 70,000 美元之間波動。今年該地區 FFA 市場的定價水準為每天 60,000 美元低至中美元。而巴拿馬運河並沒有出現任何嚴重的延誤，巴拿馬運河在未來也將繼續成為不確定因素。

And with this, I'm pleased to let Samantha take you through the commercial performance and our financials.

在此，我很高興讓 Samantha 帶您了解我們的商業表現和財務狀況。

Thank you, Kristian. And hello everyone in the call. Good to speak to you. For the first quarter of 2024, we deliver a TCE of USD9,400 per calendar day and USD61,500 per available day, a continued solid performance. We have a healthy coverage through our time charter and FFA portfolio, which represents about 37% of our shipping exposure. For the second quarter, we have fixed 84% of the available days at about USD49,000 per day.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。通話中的大家好。很高興和你說話。 2024 年第一季度，我們每個日曆日的 TCE 為 9,400 美元，每個可用日的 TCE 為 61,500 美元，表現持續穩定。我們透過定期租船和 FFA 投資組合擁有良好的覆蓋範圍，約占我們航運業務的 37%。第二季度，我們將 84% 的可用天數固定為每天約 49,000 美元。

For '24, our time charter out fleet generates a profit and around USD25 million over our time charter in-fleet. Additionally, more shipping capacity that is fixed on time charter during the quarter is estimated to generate about USD39 million for year 2024, up from USD19 million as reported in Q1.

24 年，我們的期租出船隊創造了利潤，比我們的期租入隊船隊創造了約 2,500 萬美元的利潤。此外，本季定期租船固定的更多運力預計到 2024 年將產生約 3,900 萬美元的收入，高於第一季報告的 1,900 萬美元。

Moving to slide 11, product services deliver a solid performance in the beginning of the year. In Q1, a yield and net profit of USD20 million and increases net asset value to USD82 million as of end March. The net profit was contributed by gross profit of USD33 million after netting off G&A and tax prohibitions. The gross profit includes realized gain of USD18.7 million and unrealized cargo and derivative gain of USD40 million.

轉向幻燈片 11，產品服務在年初表現強勁。第一季收益率和淨利潤為 2,000 萬美元，截至 3 月底淨資產增加至 8,200 萬美元。淨利潤由扣除 G&A 和稅收禁令後的 3300 萬美元毛利潤貢獻。毛利包括已實現收益1870萬美元及未實現貨運及衍生性商品收益4000萬美元。

The reported net profit does not include the unrealized fiscal shipping valuation, which is USD31 million at the end of March, based on our internal valuations. This shipping valuation dropped from the previous quarter, reflecting a decline of a 12-month freight forward market at the end of March, compared with the substantially higher market in Q4. For Q1, we reported an average value at risk of a USD5 million on a well-balanced trading book, including cargoes, shipping, and derivatives.

報告的淨利潤不包括未實現的財政航運估值，根據我們的內部估值，截至 3 月底，該估值為 3,100 萬美元。這一航運估值較上一季下降，反映出3月底12個月遠期貨運市場較第四季大幅上漲的市場有所下降。第一季度，我們報告平衡的交易帳簿（包括貨物、運輸和衍生性商品）的平均風險價值為 500 萬美元。

As announced earlier, we concluded a multi-year contract with the Enterprise Product -- Partners in Texas. The contract will have the potential to double our volume out from the US-Gulf, providing product services with a strong cargo position. Next slide, please.

正如先前宣布的，我們與德克薩斯州的企業產品合作夥伴簽訂了一份多年合約。該合約將使我們的美國海灣貨運量增加一倍，提供具有強大貨運地位的產品服務。請下一張投影片。

Moving to the financial highlights. In Q1, we continued a good business performance and reported a net profit after tax of USD150 million on a consolidated basis. This includes USD10 million in profit from BW LPG India and USD21 million from product services. The net profit also includes a positive adjustment of USD26 million related to the effect of IRFS-15 for the quarter, as the TCE for the straddling voyages over the quarter end is recognized on the load to discharge base.

轉向財務亮點。一季度，我們持續保持良好的經營業績，合併稅後淨利1.5億美元。其中包括來自 BW LPG India 的 1000 萬美元利潤和來自產品服務的 2100 萬美元利潤。淨利潤還包括與本季 IRFS-15 影響相關的 2,600 萬美元正調整，因為季度末跨航次的 TCE 在裝卸基數上確認。

We reported an earnings per share of USD1.07, mainly contributed by our core shipping business. This translates into an annualized earning yield of 38% when compared against our share price at the end of March. We reported a net leverage ratio of 7% in Q1, a decrease from 21% at the end of December.

我們報告的每股收益為 1.07 美元，主要來自我們的核心航運業務。與 3 月底我們的股價相比，這意味著年化報酬率為 38%。我們報告第一季淨槓桿率為 7%，較 12 月底的 21% 下降。

This substantial decrease was due to repayment of shipping loan, decrease in restricted cash, help for the derivative margin requirement, and decrease in product services or short-term trade finance drawn at the end of Q1.

這一大幅下降是由於償還航運貸款、限制性現金減少、衍生性商品保證金要求的幫助以及第一季末提取的產品服務或短期貿易融資減少所致。

On the basis of a low leverage ratio and considering the business performance as well as the capital requirement ahead, the board has declared a dividend of USD1 per share in Q1. This represents a 93% of payout ratio of a Q1 total profit or 106% of a shipping impact.

在低槓桿率的基礎上，考慮到經營業績以及未來的資本需求，董事會宣布第一季派發每股1美元的股利。這代表了第一季總利潤的 93% 的支付率或運輸影響的 106%。

The dividend payout reflects our commitment to return value to our shareholders as we continue to deliver a high dividend yield of 22% when calculated on yesterday's share price. Our balance sheet ended the quarter with a shareholder's equity of USD1.7 billion. Our annualized Q1 return on equity and capital employed was 37% and 30%, respectively.

股息支付反映了我們對股東回報價值的承諾，根據昨天的股價計算，我們繼續提供 22% 的高股息收益率。本季末我們的資產負債表中股東權益為 17 億美元。我們第一季的年化股本回報率和已用資本回報率分別為 37% 和 30%。

In Q1, our daily OpEx came in at USD8,700 per day due to higher than expected maintenance and repair expense. For 2024, we expect our own fleet operating cash break-even to be about USD17,300 per day. As you can see, our liquidity continued to remain healthy. On a consolidated basis, we ended Q1 with a USD661 million in liquidity, including USD340 million in cash, USD347 million in on-join revolving facilities, which will support us for upcoming CapEx expenditures.

第一季度，由於維護和維修費用高於預期，我們的每日營運支出為 8,700 美元。到 2024 年，我們預計我們自己的機隊營運現金損益平衡點約為每天 17,300 美元。正如您所看到的，我們的流動性繼續保持健康。綜合來看，第一季末我們的流動資金為 6.61 億美元，其中包括 3.4 億美元現金、3.47 億美元的加入循環貸款，這將為我們即將到來的資本支出提供支持。

Ship financing debt stood at USD244 million as end March, comprised of the balanced ship financing terminal while spread out with no major repayment until 2026. Trade finance joined at a moderate level of USD167 million or 21% of our USD796 million trading line, leaving a healthy headroom for growth.

截至3 月底，船舶融資債務為2.44 億美元，包括平衡的船舶融資碼頭，直到2026 年才進行重大償還。下了健康的成長空間。

With that, I would like to conclude my update. I'm back to you, Lisa.

至此，我想結束我的更新。我又回到你身邊了，麗莎。

Thank you for attending BW LPG's first quarter 2024 financial results presentation. More information on BW LPG and BW Product Services are available at www.bwlpg.com and www.bwproductservices.com, respectively. Have a good day and a good night.

感謝您參加 BW LPG 2024 年第一季財務業績發表會。有關 BW LPG 和 BW 產品服務的更多信息，請分別訪問 www.bwlpg.com 和 www.bwproductservices.com。祝你有美好的一天和美好的夜晚。

(Event Instructions) Eirik

（活動說明）Eirik

Yeah, hi. Just a question, Kristian, because you're saying that obviously growing within shipping now is challenging or expensive or I mean, depending on how you want to frame it. But then what's the alternative?

是的，嗨。只是一個問題，克里斯蒂安，因為你說現在航運業的成長顯然具有挑戰性或昂貴，或者我的意思是，這取決於你想如何建造它。但還有什麼選擇呢？

Because of course, you are now -- I mean, you're basically now, if you exclude the debt on BW India, you're debt free. So then what's the alternative? Because your cash earnings are significantly higher than your net profits.

因為當然，你現在 - 我的意思是，你現在基本上是，如果你排除 BW India 的債務，你就沒有債務了。那麼還有什麼選擇呢？因為你的現金收入明顯高於你的淨利。

So obviously, we're entering a stage where you're either going to build substantial cash [coffers] or you're going to have to pay out more. Are you considering doing some kind of extraordinary payout? Or how should we think about your balance sheet a year or two down the road at the current market outlook?

顯然，我們正在進入一個階段，你要么建立大量現金[金庫]，要么不得不支付更多費用。您是否正在考慮進行某種特殊的支出？或者，在當前的市場前景下，我們該如何看待一兩年後的資產負債表？

Thanks, Eric. Like you say, and again, it's not our aim to be debt free or anything, but it's simply hard for us to find any profitable ways to invest at the moment and thereby increase our debt side. So I think when it comes to the dividend, that's something, and the balance sheet composition is something which we always discuss with the board.

謝謝，埃里克。就像你說的，我們的目標不是無債務或其他什麼，但我們目前很難找到任何有利可圖的投資方式，從而增加我們的債務。所以我認為，當談到股利時，這是我們經常與董事會討論的問題，而資產負債表的組成也是我們經常討論的問題。

So I don't want to rule out anything, but again, this is something which is at the board's discretion, and we'll see what the future brings. But you're right, we are a bit -- I would say, too robust on our balance sheet. But again, it's not an aim for us to be debt free or anything. But we like to -- if we raise debt, it should be against projects that we believe are creating value for the company and the shareholders.

因此，我不想排除任何可能性，但同樣，這是董事會自行決定的事情，我們將看看未來會帶來什麼。但你是對的，我想說的是，我們的資產負債表有點過於穩健。但同樣，我們的目標不是擺脫債務或其他什麼。但我們喜歡——如果我們舉債，應該針對我們認為正在為公司和股東創造價值的項目。

Okay, thank you. That's fair. And just on the market now, we're seeing some time charter activity and I think we're seeing two, three year deals now being done, $50,000 a day, which is approximately where it should be also based on share prices, at least.

好的謝謝。這還算公平。現在就在市場上，我們看到了一些期租活動，我認為我們現在正在完成兩三年的交易，每天 50,000 美元，這大約也是基於股價的水平，至少。

What are you seeing? And if I also may ask, are you surprised about the strength you've seen over the past few months compared to where we were? I mean, it's been quite a turnaround in sentiment, at least in a few months’ time.

你看到什麼了？如果我還可以問，與我們相比，您對過去幾個月所看到的實力感到驚訝嗎？我的意思是，至少在幾個月的時間裡，人們的情緒發生了很大的轉變。

Yeah, I think if you look at the US exports specifically, they have -- I think it's fair to say that they have surprised us on the upside. The resilience in the US production and export volumes is more than also we anticipated. But again, we do see that on the time charter front -- there are definitely discussions out there with and among market players who are in need for shipping going forward. And if you need a ship these days, you simply have to pay up. I think that's the way it works.

是的，我認為如果你具體看看美國的出口，我認為可以公平地說，它們的上行趨勢令我們感到驚訝。美國生產和出口量的彈性也超出了我們的預期。但我們再次看到，在期租方面，肯定存在著與需要未來運輸的市場參與者以及市場參與者之間的討論。如今，如果您需要一艘船，您只需付款即可。我認為這就是它的運作方式。

So I believe you referred to a three-year deal around $50,000, which is something we are not surprised to see. And there are other market participants also looking for ways to cover their shipping needs in the future. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see other time charters done around the same level.

所以我相信你提到了一份大約 50,000 美元的三年合約，我們對此並不感到驚訝。還有其他市場參與者也在尋找滿足未來運輸需求的方法。因此，如果我們看到其他期租約以相同水平完成，我不會感到驚訝。

Okay, and one final one. I mean, we're sitting some distance away from this, but obviously you are seeing quite decent investment activity into both fractionating capacity, export capacity, et cetera, out of the US. So given your relationship to enterprise, I mean, on the production side, is that potentially becoming a bottleneck as you see it? I mean, it doesn't look like infrastructure is going to be a bottleneck, but given the drilling activity we're now seeing and expectations ahead, is that at all becoming anyone's fear or is it just business as usual?

好的，還有最後一件事。我的意思是，我們距離這一點還有一段距離，但顯然你會看到美國以外的分餾產能、出口產能等方面的投資活動相當不錯。因此，考慮到您與企業的關係，我的意思是，在生產方面，這是否可能成為您認為的瓶頸？我的意思是，基礎設施看起來不會成為瓶頸，但考慮到我們現在看到的鑽探活動和未來的預期，這是否會成為任何人的恐懼，還是一切照舊？

I would say that we wouldn't have seen the recent investments done by the terminal operators and other players in the US shale gas market had it not been for them actually believing in the shale gas story also going forward. So, and the fact that, for instance, energy transfer, both [WTG] midstream, I think is another sign of these big operators and terminal operators consolidating because they see there is still an upside potential in the US.

我想說，如果不是美國頁岩氣市場的碼頭營運商和其他參與者真正相信頁岩氣的未來，我們就不會看到他們最近所做的投資。因此，事實上，例如，能源傳輸（WTG）中游，我認為這是這些大型營運商和碼頭營運商整合的另一個跡象，因為他們認為美國仍然存在上行潛力。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Thank you. Eric Peter, please go ahead.

謝謝。埃里克彼得，請繼續。

Yes, hello. Just firstly, a quick question on the [Vitol] ships. You write that there is no financial impact from it, but could you share some of the background behind those ships being pulled from the pool?

是的你好。首先，問一個關於[維托]艦的簡單問題。您寫道，這不會造成任何財務影響，但您能否分享一下這些船隻被從池中拉出的背景？

Yeah, well, this was a COA, sorry -- a pool participation with shipping capacity charted back kind of COA, which was tested for a year and it didn't work out as intended. And then we have amicably agreed with Vitol that, let's rather meet in the spot market. So it's very dramatic in all ways.

是的，好吧，這是一個 COA，抱歉——一個帶有運輸能力的池參與，繪製了 COA 的形式，它已經測試了一年，但沒有達到預期效果。然後我們友好地同意維托，我們寧願在現貨市場見面。所以從各方面來說這都是非常戲劇性的。

Okay, good to hear. You also write that the Panama passages now is normalized, but I suppose then you refer, of course to your markets in the overall market. It's still a substantial reduction in the number of transit. And to the best of my knowledge, there is still a substantial auction premium to be paid.

好的，很高興聽到。您還寫道，巴拿馬航線現在已經正常化，但我想您當然會指的是整個市場中的市場。過境次數仍大幅減少。據我所知，仍然需要支付大量拍賣溢價。

So question part one is, what is the auction premiums these days? And two, very good if you can elaborate on what the consequence of still hefty payments to use the canal is impacting the VLGC markets.

所以問題第一部分是，現在的拍賣溢價是多少？第二，如果您能詳細說明使用運河的巨額費用對 VLGC 市場的影響，那就太好了。

Yeah, so on the Panama Canal side, there have been great fluctuations in the auction price. And we have seen levels from -- $700,000 per day up to $1.8 million a couple of weeks ago. And then it fell back to $500,000 again. And now I think it's, as far as I can recall, it's back to $700,000 there about.

是的，所以在巴拿馬運河這邊，拍賣價格出現了很大的波動。我們看到的水平從每天 70 萬美元上升到幾週前的 180 萬美元。然後又跌回50萬美元。現在，據我記得，我認為它又回到了 70 萬美元左右。

So this is a daily auction, which is hard to predict. But there is definitely big fluctuations from week to week. And I think in general, you can say that -- there has been a willingness to pay up to get the ships through the canal, both from the charter side and also from the owner's side.

所以這是每天的拍賣，很難預測。但每週肯定會有很大的波動。我認為總的來說，你可以這樣說——租船方和船東都願意付費讓船隻通過運河。

But in general, you can say that the Panama Canal capacity, it is what it is. The more ships coming into the market, and we anticipate that there will be congestion in and around the Panama Canal also in the future, because the capacity is pretty much fixed. And especially during the high season, it's going to be more congestion coming than what we see today. That's what we anticipate at least.

但總的來說，你可以說巴拿馬運河的容量，就是這樣。進入市場的船舶越多，我們預計未來巴拿馬運河及其周邊地區也會出現擁堵，因為運力幾乎是固定的。尤其是在旺季期間，將會比我們今天看到的更加擁擠。至少我們是這樣預期的。

Okay. But I read you as if you now pay the auction fees and use the canal predominantly and opt not to do the long Cape of Good Hope rounds.

好的。但我讀到你的意思就好像你現在支付了拍賣費並主要使用運河，並且選擇不進行長距離的好望角回合。

No, it depends on where we are discharging in Asia. So basically, if you are in Northeast Asia, you try to see whether it's possible to go back via the Panama Canal. If not, you go around South Africa on the way back to the US. But it depends on where you are coming open after discharge. And then there is obviously a view on the situation in and around the Panama Canal before you decide on which direction to go.

不，這取決於我們在亞洲的哪個地方卸貨。所以基本上，如果你在東北亞，你會嘗試看看是否可以通過巴拿馬運河返回。如果沒有，您可以在返回美國的途中繞過南非。但這取決於您出院後去哪裡就診。在你決定走哪個方向之前，顯然對巴拿馬運河及其周邊地區的局勢有一個看法。

And that applies also to the [label] Lake, the front hall.

這也適用於[標籤]湖，前廳。

On the front hall, it's negotiated on a case-by-case basis with the charter. So, and then you typically have a rate to go around the Cape or you can have a rate to go via Panama. But this is something which is discussed with the charters on a case-by-case basis, depending on the situation at any point in time in the Panama Canal.

在前廳，這是根據具體情況與章程進行協商的。因此，您通常可以選擇繞過開普敦的費率，也可以選擇途經巴拿馬的費率。但這是根據巴拿馬運河任何時間點的情況，根據具體情況與租船合約進行討論的問題。

Okay. A fine question from me, as also Ovals alluded to. It's pricey, but just how pricey is it really? Because you sold some oil ships last year, which I think is fair to say surprised most people on sort of the upside of that price, but all those prices. But if you were to dispose of some of your 16 tonnage-- 15 tonnage, 16 tonnage, what would that price be?

好的。這是我提出的一個很好的問題，橢圓形也提到過。它很貴，但它到底有多貴？因為你去年出售了一些油船，我認為可以公平地說，大多數人對價格的上漲感到驚訝，但所有這些價格。但如果你要處置 16 噸位中的部分——15 噸位、16 噸位，價格會是多少？

Well, I think the last reference point is a deal done by [Petredec] where they sold it in the low $80 million, wasn't it? So I think that is the last reference point, but I can double check that Petre, so I'm not misguiding you.

好吧，我認為最後一個參考點是 [Petredec] 完成的一筆交易，他們以 8000 萬美元的低價出售了它，不是嗎？所以我認為這是最後一個參考點，但我可以仔細檢查 Petre，所以我不會誤導你。

Would you sell on those prices, Kristian?

克里斯蒂安，你會以這個價格出售嗎？

We have no plans to sell any more ships at the moment, Petre.

彼得，我們目前沒有計劃出售更多船隻。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

The reason for that is also, it's also because if you sell ships at one point, you start reducing your capacity to generate revenues. So it's important for us to keep a certain size to be able to generate revenues also in the future.

原因還在於，如果您在某一時刻出售船舶，您就會開始降低創收能力。因此，保持一定的規模對我們來說很重要，這樣才能在未來創造收入。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

The next question comes from Axel. Please go ahead.

下一個問題來自阿克塞爾。請繼續。

Thank you, Axel Springer, Kepler Cheuvreux. I have a question related to the PDH plants in China. If you can comment related to recent market intelligence regarding the margins there, which has been weak lately. Do you think this is a consequence of increased capacity or do you think it's a consequence of softer demand?

謝謝阿克塞爾·施普林格、開普勒·肖弗勒。我有一個關於中國 PDH 工廠的問題。如果您可以評論一下最近有關利潤率的市場情報，最近利潤率一直疲軟。您認為這是產能增加的結果還是需求疲軟的結果？

I think, when you look at the PDH plants run rates they have been weak to relatively weak for quite a long period of time. But we still see that they continue to run and new PDH plants are opening. And many of them are also linked to other petrochemical projects in China. So we don't really see any big change in this since the last half year or so, or even longer. So for us, there is no change in the way we regard the Chinese demand from the PDH side.

我認為，當你觀察 PDH 工廠的運作率時，它們在相當長的一段時間內一直處於疲軟甚至相對疲軟的狀態。但我們仍然看到它們繼續運行，並且新的 PDH 工廠正在開業。其中許多項目也與中國的其他石化項目有關。所以從過去半年左右甚至更長時間以來，我們並沒有真正看到這方面有任何重大的變化。所以對我們來說，我們看待PDH方面中國需求的方式並沒有改變。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Over to you, Kaya, for questions from the Q&A channel.

卡亞，請回答來自問答頻道的問題。

Sure. Thank you, Lisa. We have one question here from [Nuno Rodrigues] asking about the TCE guiding for the second quarter which is lower than the actual Q1 TCE. And does this mean that the net profit for Q2 is expected to decrease?

當然。謝謝你，麗莎。我們有一個來自 [Nuno Rodrigues] 的問題，詢問第二季度的 TCE 指導值，該指導值低於第一季的實際 TCE 值。這是否意味著Q2淨利預計將下降？

Yeah, Kaya, I'm happy to answer the question. I think let's remember the timing when we fixed for the TCE out in order to secure our earning and hedge for it. It's earlier than the quarter. So that's why -- let's also don't forget that the last quarter we come from an extremely strong, historically high trade market.

是的，卡亞，我很高興回答這個問題。我認為讓我們記住我們確定 TCE 的時機，以確保我們的收入並對其進行對沖。這比季度還早。這就是為什麼——我們也不要忘記，上個季度我們來自一個極其強勁、歷史最高的貿易市場。

Hence, by comparison, we feel it's a little bit low. But let's reassure that compared with our $17,300 operating cash break-even, $49,000 is a very healthy rate. And also that doesn't mean that the net profit will necessarily be a decrease in compared with this quarter.

因此，相較之下，我們覺得它有點低。但讓我們放心的是，與我們 17,300 美元的營運現金收支平衡相比，49,000 美元是一個非常健康的比率。而且這並不意味著淨利潤與本季相比一定會下降。

The reality is that we do not know until the book is closed, but there are also other elements, for example, product services as performance, as well as other accounting related factors can impact the net result.

現實情況是，直到帳簿關閉我們才知道，但還有其他因素，例如，產品服務作為績效，以及其他會計相關因素可以影響最終結果。

Then next, we have a question from Blaise Francis Ndolumingo. I apologize for the pronunciation. A question slightly overlapping with the previous one. Your guidance of TCE revenue per available day for the second quarter $49,000 per day is down compared to last year's TCE revenue of $52,500 per available day.

接下來，布萊斯·弗朗西斯·恩多盧明戈向我們提出了一個問題。我為發音道歉。與上一個問題略有重疊的問題。您對第二季度每個可用日 TCE 收入的指導為每天 49,000 美元，低於去年每個可用日 TCE 收入 52,500 美元。

Can you go a bit more in detail with regards to the reasons? What is your guidance with regards to the impact of this on earnings? Will the decrease in net finance expenses, which help earnings in the first quarter also be able to offset the TCE revenue per available day decline in the second quarter?

能更詳細地介紹一下原因嗎？您對此對收益的影響有何指引？淨財務費用的減少有助於第一季的獲利，是否也能夠抵銷第二季每可用日 TCE 收入的下降？

Well, thanks for the question. I believe that was also answered early on. As for the net finance expenses, I'll assure that a natural outcome of a very -- how to say, we're almost debt free at the moment. In addition to that, we also run a very healthy cash management program, which means that the net finance expenses will be trending low as well.

嗯，謝謝你的提問。我相信這也很早就得到了答案。至於淨財務費用，我保證這是一個非常自然的結果——怎麼說呢，我們目前幾乎沒有債務。除此之外，我們還運行著非常健康的現金管理計劃，這意味著淨財務費用也將呈現下降趨勢。

And if I can also make a comment to the reasons why it's coming off compared to TCE revenue of $52,500, it's because of the events in the first quarter. And there is a backlog on the earnings and revenues. So since we had this sharp rate drop in January, we are not immune to it. And it affects some of the positions also into the second quarter.

如果我還可以對 TCE 收入 52,500 美元相比下降的原因發表評論，那是因為第一季發生的事件。而且收入和收入都積壓了。因此，由於一月利率大幅下降，我們也不能倖免。它也會影響到第二季的一些職位。

(Event Instructions) Finally, a question from the chat channel, Kaya.

（活動說明）最後，來自聊天頻道Kaya的問題。

Yeah, another question there from Blaise Francis Ndolumingo. Yeah, thank you for your answer. Highly appreciate it. No question, sorry.

是的，布萊斯·弗朗西斯·恩多盧明戈提出了另一個問題。是的，謝謝你的回答。高度讚賞。沒問題，抱歉。

Okay, final. (Event Instructions)

好的，最後。 （活動須知）

I think we are coming to the end of the presentation here. So thanks everyone for the questions and for your participation. And I think we can round it off there. Thanks, everyone.

我想我們的演示即將結束。感謝大家的提問與參與。我想我們可以就此結束。感謝大家。