Banco Santander Brasil SA (BSBR) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

[Interpreted]

[解讀]

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today during our conference call for the results of 2024, the first quarter. We are here in our headquarters in São Paulo and we'll be dividing this event into three parts.

大家早安，感謝您今天參加我們關於 2024 年第一季業績的電話會議。我們在聖保羅總部，我們將把這次活動分成三個部分。

First, our CEO, Mario Leão, will talk about the main highlights of the period and the strategies by which we will continue to drive our growth in the coming quarters. Next, our CFO, Gustavo Alejo, will provide a detailed analysis of our performance. And finally, there will be a Q&A session.

首先，我們的執行長馬裡奧·萊奧 (Mario Leão) 將談論這一時期的主要亮點以及我們在未來幾季繼續推動成長的策略。接下來，我們的財務長 Gustavo Alejo 將對我們的業績進行詳細分析。最後，將有問答環節。

(Event Instructions)

（活動須知）

Today's presentation that is available for download on our IR website.

今天的簡報可在我們的 IR 網站上下載。

Now, I hand over to Mario to start the presentation.

現在，我請馬裡奧開始示範。

Good morning, everyone. Well, it's 10:00 o'clock sharp and we are live. And this is the second quarter results conference call. And I would like to start by showing you the main highlights. I'll start with the column in the middle with the numbers. I think you've already seen it.

大家早安。現在是 10:00 整，我們正在直播。這是第二季業績電話會議。我想先向您展示主要亮點。我將從中間帶有數字的列開始。我想你已經看過了。

And as you know, once again, we had a very clean quarter, as I like to call it, with some one-off events, which are posted in our results. We grew 10% quarter-on-quarter, over BRL3.3 billion. So once again, we reached BRL3 billion level this quarter. And this shows that we are showing a consistent growth of our portfolio growth and results delivery. And in the next quarter good operating results.

如你所知，我們再次經歷了一個非常乾淨的季度，正如我喜歡稱之為的那樣，有一些一次性事件，這些事件已發佈在我們的結果中。我們季度環比成長 10%，超過 33 億雷亞爾。因此，本季我們再次達到 30 億雷亞爾的水平。這顯示我們的投資組合成長和績效交付呈現持續成長。並在下個季度取得良好的經營業績。

And we had increase in profitability. Our profitability year-on-year is 15.5%. And this is an evolution when compared to 14.1% of last quarter, where we already showed an ROE. above our cost of capital. So in terms of results, growth and profitability, it's a good performance. And this is testimony that we are really moving forward in the right direction.

我們的獲利能力也有所提高。我們的獲利能力較去年同期為15.5%。與上季 14.1% 相比，這是一個演變，我們已經顯示了 ROE。高於我們的資本成本。因此，就業績、成長和獲利能力而言，這是一個不錯的表現。這證明我們確實在朝著正確的方向前進。

On the left hand side, we have a year-on-year view and how our results performed. Our NII increased by two digits. We will give you more details. And during the Q&A, we can give you more information about client NII, and market NII. We also had consistent progress in fees. And this shows that we are going to the direction of portfolio diversification. So, since 2022, we've been saying that we need to diversify. We needed to diversify the macro numbers of the bank. We have a credit position, which is different, more balanced, in terms of different income brackets and more funding and fees. The idea is to grow fees above our margin growth.

在左側，我們可以看到同比視圖以及我們的業績表現。我們的 NII 增加了兩位數。我們將為您提供更多詳細資訊。在問答過程中，我們可以為您提供有關客戶NII和市場NII的更多資訊。我們在費用方面也取得了持續進展。而這顯示我們正走向投資組合多元化的方向。所以，自2022年以來，我們一直在說我們需要多元化。我們需要使銀行的宏觀數據多樣化。我們的信用狀況是不同的、更平衡的，因為不同的收入階層以及更多的資金和費用。我們的想法是使費用成長高於我們的利潤成長。

In terms of funding, we are also growing two digits. This is another marathon. It's not a sprint because this is an effort that spends for many decades. I will give you some additional information further.

在資金方面，我們也以兩位數的速度成長。這又是一場馬拉松。這不是衝刺，因為這是一項花費數十年的努力。我將進一步向您提供一些附加資訊。

Our LLP is decreasing year-on-year, even though the portfolio is growing 8%. This is a clear sign that our portfolio is becoming even healthier and that, therefore, dilutes the portfolio from old vintages, portfolios that we had to work on during 2023 and 2024. And now we're seeing the benefits.

儘管我們的投資組合成長了 8%，但我們的 LLP 卻逐年減少。這是一個明顯的跡象，表明我們的投資組合變得更加健康，因此稀釋了我們在 2023 年和 2024 年期間必須處理的舊年份投資組合。現在我們看到了好處。

On the right hand side, we have the strategy progress. We are certainly talking about our obsessive search for principality. We use this topic, this theme principality because that means that we want to be the main bank and we want to be closer to our clients. We have to be present throughout the customer journey. It's a multichannel conversation. So this is the summary of our strategy.

在右側，我們有策略進度。我們當然正在談論我們對公國的痴迷追求。我們使用這個主題，這個主題公國，因為這意味著我們想成為主要銀行，我們想更接近我們的客戶。我們必須貫穿整個客戶旅程。這是多通路對話。這就是我們策略的總結。

In terms of free, we had an important launch. We did that just before the last result. Free is a very relevant offering, and that puts us back into the game in terms of mass income. We will highlight the consumer finance, which is growing and with lots of transformations. We will give a double click in our business of SMEs, it's growing. We are revisiting our service model. And as I said in the last quarterly presentation, I mentioned that.

在免費方面，我們進行了一次重要的發布。我們在最後結果之前就這樣做了。免費是一個非常相關的產品，這讓我們回到大眾收入的遊戲中。我們將重點放在消費金融，它正在成長並發生了許多變化。我們將雙擊我們的中小企業業務，它正在成長。我們正在重新審視我們的服務模式。正如我在上一季報告中所說，我提到了這一點。

And finally, I think you've seen it. We, a few weeks ago, at the end of June, we concluded the VR and VF benefits and we are making a merger with Pluxee Sodexho. And so we've increased the valuation of our business, BRL1,930 billion. The recognition of the results, I mean, we could flow over to the results, but to be cautioned, we prefer to reinforce our P&L. So we do have an extraordinary item and in the third quarter, but we will just preserve it in our results just to reinforce the balance sheet because this is a good sign of good management.

最後，我想你已經看到了。幾週前，也就是 6 月底，我們總結了 VR 和 VF 的優勢，並且正在與 Pluxee Sodexho 合併。因此，我們將業務估值提高了 19,300 億雷亞爾。我的意思是，對結果的認可，我們可以轉向結果，但要注意的是，我們更願意加強我們的損益表。因此，我們在第三季確實有一個非凡的項目，但我們只會將其保留在我們的業績中，只是為了加強資產負債表，因為這是良好管理的好兆頭。

Moving on to the next slide, which we talk about customer centricity because after all this reinstates, the essence of our strategy. The first major topic that I would like to highlight is that as we start talking about principally rather than loyalty. So you might recall that we start reinforcing the topic of principally we are no longer talking about loyal customers, of course, loyal clients is something very important. But what we are measuring now is principality.

轉到下一張投影片，我們討論以客戶為中心，因為畢竟這恢復了我們策略的本質。我想強調的第一個主要話題是，當我們開始談論主要而不是忠誠。所以你可能還記得，我們​​開始強調這個主題，主要是我們不再談論忠誠的客戶，當然，忠誠的客戶是非常重要的。但我們現在衡量的是公國。

Principality is defined in three major blocks. Transactionality, the everyday transactions from our clients, credit card, current account, integrated payments and then we have the credit side. I mean, everyday credit that converges with transactionality or more structured credit related to mortgage loans and other things.

公國由三個主要部分定義。交易性，來自我們客戶的日常交易、信用卡、活期帳戶、綜合支付，然後我們有信用方面。我的意思是，日常信貸與交易性或與抵押貸款和其他事物相關的更具結構化的信貸相融合。

And the third pillar is investment. So we are referring to three main principality blocks and that defines whether we are the principal bank or whether we are the second bank or the first one. So we have a lot of things to do yet. Not only we show that conceptually, but also in numbers. We improved our principal goal by 6% and year-on-year, we are making two digit progress. We will start talking more often about printability. And now this is our commitment and we will speak about it continuously.

第三個支柱是投資。因此，我們指的是三個主要公國區塊，這定義了我們是主要銀行還是第二銀行或第一銀行。所以我們還有很多事情要做。我們不僅在概念上展示這一點，而且在數字上展示這一點。我們將主要目標提高了 6%，與去年同期相比，我們取得了兩位數的進展。我們將開始更多地討論適印性。現在這是我們的承諾，我們將不斷談論它。

We also talk a lot about NPS. We've been showing that, quarter-on-quarter. I mean we have to show our NPS numbers either going up or down. So our NPS continue to grow, NPS as a whole transactional. We grow NPS individuals and companies. We have posted high levels, but that's not enough. We want to increase NPS, even more converging towards individuals as well, but these are historical levels and quite positive.

我們也談論了很多有關 NPS 的內容。我們已經逐季度地展示了這一點。我的意思是，我們必須顯示我們的 NPS 數字是上升還是下降。所以我們的 NPS 繼續成長，NPS 作為一個整體是交易性的。我們培養 NPS 個人和公司。我們已經公佈了高水平，但這還不夠。我們希望增加 NPS，甚至更多地向個人傾斜，但這些都是歷史水平，而且相當積極。

They also reflect in every channel. When we look at a digital channel, remote channel, then obviously they are constantly integrated with the chat experience. So when we look at physical stores, this is even more surprising because we posted an important evolution in the physical channels, which coincides with the new service model that we also launched a few months ago in our effort to redesign our retail platform.

它們也反映在每個管道中。當我們觀察數位管道、遠端管道時，顯然它們不斷與聊天體驗結合。因此，當我們審視實體店時，這更令人驚訝，因為我們發布了實體通路的重要演變，這與我們幾個月前為重新設計零售平台而推出的新服務模式不謀而合。

The stores no longer own the clients, but they become a major element of our multi-channel offering as an element of convenience. So now the stores serve all clients of the bank in a very open way. All of the models are earmarked to that end. So the store is more dedicated to traffic. So NPS grows substantially.

商店不再擁有客戶，但它們作為便利因素成為我們多通路產品的主要元素。所以現在這些商店以非常開放的方式為銀行的所有客戶提供服務。所有型號都專門用於此目的。所以店裡更注重流量。因此 NPS 大幅成長。

Moreover, profitability per vintage also grows. We've been showing these numbers in the past quarters. The 2021 vintage compared to 2022 and 2023 had a substantial evolution, which shows that we are going in the right direction. We want to grow more, but we are on the right track, already.

此外，每個年份的獲利能力也在成長。我們在過去幾個季度一直在展示這些數字。與 2022 年和 2023 年相比，2021 年年份發生了重大變化，這表明我們正在朝著正確的方向前進。我們想要成長更多，但我們已經走在正確的軌道上了。

Here we talk about free with strategic numbers. So we captured the strategy that was literally launched one day before the release. I even showed you the video. We are referring to a strategy that involves a complete redesign of the way we deal with mass income. We talk about a new digital experience, redesign, simpler, and much more supported by a human and digital experience through the app.

這裡我們談論免費與策略數字。因此，我們捕獲了發布前一天實際啟動的策略。我甚至給你看了影片。我們指的是一項涉及對我們處理大眾收入的方式進行徹底重新設計的策略。我們談論的是一種新的數位體驗，重新設計，更簡單，並且透過應用程式得到更多的人類和數位體驗的支持。

We also talk about a continuous conversation. And I usually say here that we don't want our clients to repeat the story over and over. So the client had a conversation with us, and the conversation has to flow. I don't want our clients to tell the story more than once. And we do that through data capture and our CRM experience. We don't want the clients to tell the story over and over again because we have to be able to know the story even before they tell us. And again, we want to be the most present bank in customers' lives. And not only through our own will, but we want them to feel that for themselves. And the NPS evolution is just showing that.

我們也談論持續的對話。我通常在這裡說，我們不希望我們的客戶一遍又一遍地重複這個故事。因此，客戶與我們進行了對話，對話必須順利進行。我不希望我們的客戶多次講述這個故事。我們透過資料收集和 CRM 經驗來做到這一點。我們不希望客戶一遍又一遍地講述這個故事，因為我們必須在他們告訴我們之前就知道這個故事。再次強調，我們希望成為客戶生活中最親近的銀行。不僅透過我們自己的意願，而且我們希望他們自己感受到這一點。NPS 的演變正好說明了這一點。

What has happened to free in the past three months? We are very pleased with the evolution. The first KPIs are quite positive. We are reactivating more account holders. Part of the strategy that I talked to you before during the release and other presentations, from our total base of over 60 million clients, half of it, almost the entire bank, we have inactive customers. So we have a great opportunity to reactivate clients that were not active few months or a year ago.

過去三個月免費發生了什麼事？我們對這一演變感到非常滿意。第一個 KPI 非常積極。我們正在重新啟動更多帳戶持有人。我之前在發布和其他演示期間與您討論過的策略的一部分，從我們超過 6000 萬客戶的總數來看，其中一半，幾乎是整個銀行，我們有不活躍的客戶。因此，我們有一個很好的機會來重新激活幾個月或一年前不活躍的客戶。

We are also capable of converting single product clients, like auto loans or mortgage loans or savings accounts. So we have the opportunity now to bring these clients, to bring them a more encompassing offering. And we are doing that with a very selective group. So free not only means that we are changing our cost of risk, not only means that we are lowering the bar in that credit, in the ocean credit. We are bringing new clients with quality, proportionally even better than before. And we are activating the clients that we want to have as well.

我們也能夠轉換單一產品客戶，例如汽車貸款或抵押貸款或儲蓄帳戶。因此，我們現在有機會吸引這些客戶，為他們提供更全面的產品。我們正在與一個非常挑剔的團隊一起做這件事。如此免費不僅意味著我們正在改變風險成本，不僅意味著我們正在降低信貸、海洋信貸的門檻。我們正在以比以前更好的品質吸引新客戶。我們也正在啟動我們想要擁有的客戶。

Now here we are zooming in into the Select product. I've been talking about Select for the past year when we launched Select. Select is our high income segment and it celebrated its 10 anniversary last year. Two years ago when I started talking about Select with you. We had 600,000 clients, rounding up. And at the end of last year, we hit the target of 1 million. That was a public commitment that I made with you.

現在我們在這裡放大選擇產品。去年我們推出 Select 時，我一直在談論 Select。Select 是我們的高收入細分市場，去年慶祝了成立 10 週年。兩年前，當我開始與您談論 Select 時。我們有 60 萬客戶，總共有 60 萬。去年年底，我們達到了 100 萬的目標。這是我與您共同做出的公開承諾。

And I was saying, okay, now we are counting backwards towards our target of 2 million. So nine months later, I would say I'm pleased to say that we already have 1.5 million clients and we're not only focusing on the number of clients, but we are growing with an NPS that hits the mark of 70. This is the highest in our history and this is through public survey, NPS between the first and second banks in terms of high income in Brazil. And this makes us very pleased. And we do that by growing our credit portfolio, loan portfolio and we also do that through investments.

我說，好吧，現在我們正在倒數 200 萬的目標。九個月後，我很高興地說，我們已經擁有 150 萬客戶，我們不僅關注客戶數量，而且我們的 NPS 正在不斷增長，達到 70。這是我們歷史上最高的，這是透過公眾調查得出的，即巴西高收入第一銀行和第二銀行之間的 NPS。這讓我們非常高興。我們透過增加信貸投資組合、貸款投資組合來做到這一點，我們也透過投資來做到這一點。

So principality is increasing among high income clients. And since we are never totally satisfied, a few weeks later, we launched a new positioning that we call our repositioning of the branding and this is also migrating to high income clients with Começa em Você, starting with you.

因此，高收入客戶的偏好正在增加。由於我們從未完全滿意，幾週後，我們推出了一個新的定位，我們稱之為品牌重新定位，這也從您開始，透過 Começa em Vocà 遷移到高收入客戶。

So we want to be very close and being close meaning human. Of course, the digital also has a very good relationship with our client, but we want our clients to be supported by people available 24/7. These are experts in investments in our AAA and so on and so forth. So we are revisiting this offering to highlight what we do best in terms of our offering of credit cards, current accounts, personalized offering in our dedicated stores which are spread all over Brazil, also in terms of our remote and digital offering.

所以我們想要非常接近，並且接近意味著人類。當然，數位化也與我們的客戶有著非常好的關係，但我們希望我們的客戶能夠得到 24/7 全天候支援。這些是我們 AAA 等領域的投資專家。因此，我們正在重新審視這項產品，以突出我們在信用卡、活期帳戶、遍布巴西各地的專賣店的個人化產品以及遠端和數位產品方面最擅長的方面。

And here, as I've been doing since September of 2022, here we choose some of our strategic businesses and we will detail their performance. So starting on the left hand side with our credit card business, if you recall for almost two years, our operation was decreasing and this was not pleased to see, but it was something that we did consciously. This was part of the change in our portfolio. We need that not only we had to step in the breaks, but we had to earmark a portfolio because we were growing significantly in 2021.

正如我自 2022 年 9 月以來一直在做的那樣，我們在這裡選擇了一些策略業務，並詳細介紹了它們的表現。因此，從我們的信用卡業務開始，如果您還記得近兩年來，我們的業務正在減少，這是我們不高興看到的，但這是我們有意識地做的事情。這是我們投資組合變化的一部分。我們不僅需要介入，而且還必須指定一個投資組合，因為我們在 2021 年實現了顯著成長。

So, 2022, 2023, there was a drop in the customer base that was necessary. But in the last quarter, we started to grow again. We double our speed of growth this current quarter. So we are very pleased with the evolution of our credit card business. We are growing in terms of client quality. We are growing in terms of credit turnover and you see the growth in credit turnover in our fees line.

因此，到 2022 年、2023 年，客戶群的下降是必要的。但在上個季度，我們再次開始成長。本季我們的成長速度翻了一番。因此，我們對信用卡業務的發展感到非常滿意。我們在客戶品質方面不斷進步。我們的信貸週轉率正在成長，您可以在我們的費用項目中看到信貸週轉率的成長。

You will see through Gustavo's presentation that we are very well positioned, particularly in credit cards, and we are selling a level of credit cards that is two-thirds of what we sold in the peak of our speed of sales back in 2021. But, certainly, now, we are selling, having better knowledge of our clients. We have a good management of who comes in and who will merit an increase in their limits. So there was a great evolution in terms of data management and risk management as well.

透過 Gustavo 的演示，您會發現我們處於非常有利的位置，尤其是在信用卡領域，我們目前的信用卡銷售量是 2021 年銷售速度高峰期銷量的三分之二。但是，當然，現在我們正在銷售，對我們的客戶有了更好的了解。我們對誰進來以及誰應該增加限額進行了良好的管理。因此，資料管理和風險管理方面也發生了巨大的演變。

Therefore, we are very pleased with the current level of things. And certainly, I would say that it's been a year since we started growing the credit card business and this is relevant for this year and moreover for the coming years and quarters. And at the same time, NPS has been very good. So we choose to grow this business again, but grow with quality and customers being very happy.

因此，我們對目前的情況感到非常滿意。當然，我想說，自從我們開始發展信用卡業務以來已經一年了，這與今年以及未來幾年和幾個季度息息相關。同時，NPS 也非常好。因此，我們選擇再次發展這項業務，但要以品質和客戶滿意的方式發展。

On the right hand side, we talk about payroll loans. This is a business that I've been referring to for quite some time. Payroll loans, we are growing in every single portfolio, individuals, government and INSS, with all of the given challenges with rate limitations. This is one of the most competitive and dynamic products we have, maybe the most in our entire portfolio.

在右側，我們談論工資貸款。這是我很長一段時間以來一直提到的一項業務。薪資貸款，我們在每個投資組合、個人、政府和 INSS 中都在成長，並面臨利率限制的所有挑戰。這是我們最具競爭力和活力的產品之一，也許是我們整個產品組合中最具競爭力的產品。

But once again, we are growing with satisfied clients and we are growing providing a better credit quality. So payroll loan remains a very key part of our offering. This is the type of credit where we want to grow with our clients. And with that, we will generate not only principality, but we will be able to deliver better quality of credit.

但我們再次與滿意的客戶一起成長，我們不斷提供更好的信用品質。因此，薪資貸款仍然是我們產品中非常關鍵的一部分。這就是我們希望與客戶共同成長的信貸類型。這樣，我們不僅能產生公國，還能提供更高品質的信貸。

Now here, in this slide, we highlight our consumer finance business. I was telling our employees that the consumer finance is even older than Banco do Brasil because the consumer finance transaction is over 60 years old. So it's been around in Brazil even longer than the bank itself. But even then, it is one of the arms that brings more transformation. We are making great strides here.

現在，在這張投影片中，我們重點介紹了我們的消費金融業務。我告訴我們的員工，消費金融的歷史比巴西銀行還要悠久，因為消費金融交易已有60多年的歷史。因此，它在巴西的存在時間甚至比銀行本身還要長。但即便如此，它仍然是帶來更多改變的武器之一。我們在這裡取得了長足的進步。

Between 2015 and 2016, we took a major step. But now in 2024, we are giving another big leap because not only we want to be ahead of the game, certainly this is, we are not sitting comfortably on the couch, but we are working to evolve. We are the consumer finance company that is leader in the country.

2015年至2016年間，我們邁出了重要的一步。但現在到了 2024 年，我們又實現了一次大飛躍，因為我們不僅想在競爭中處於領先地位，當然，我們並沒有舒適地坐在沙發上，但我們正在努力發展。我們是國內領先的消費金融公司。

Our market quota is 21%. And even more than the quota, we are originating almost 90% of all of the entire auto loans or used vehicles in Brazil. We choose to do part of it, but we are capable of looking at the market. And that's why we have a lot of data. Technologically speaking, we also evolved in terms of hiring experience, in terms of hiring an auto loan. We only need the CPF and the number plate of the vehicle, just four clicks. So the experience to the dealership is amazing.

我們的市佔率是21%。甚至超過配額，我們也發放了巴西全部汽車貸款或二手車的近 90%。我們選擇做一部分，但我們有能力看市場。這就是我們擁有大量數據的原因。從技術上講，我們在招聘汽車貸款方面的招聘經驗也有所發展。我們只需要 CPF 和車輛的車牌號碼，只需點擊四次即可。所以經銷商的體驗是驚人的。

So on average, the dealers would want to work with Santander because our experience is quite technological. We use facial, biometrics and all of the experience that we need because the world is becoming even more complex when it comes to security. We also have super personalized offerings. All we need is the CPF and the number plate of the car. So we anticipate ourselves in terms of risk and the price of the operation. And we use a lot of events analytics.

因此，平均而言，經銷商希望與桑坦德銀行合作，因為我們的經驗非常具有技術性。我們使用臉部辨識、生物辨識技術以及我們需要的所有經驗，因為在安全方面，世界變得更加複雜。我們還有超級個人化的產品。我們所需要的只是 CPF 和汽車的車牌號碼。因此，我們根據風險和操作價格來預測自己。我們使用了大量的事件分析。

Again, we have embark technology, favoring customer experience. And this allows us to deliver quickly and correctly, both in terms of pricing, volume, and appetite. We have partnerships with 6 out of 10 largest OEMs, partnerships that involve our stake. We have a stake in some companies and we also have operating partnerships. And in practical terms, they work the same way. And we are leveraging sales together, the sales of new and sometimes used vehicles together with the OEMs.

再次強調，我們擁有有利於顧客體驗的技術。這使我們能夠在定價、數量和需求方面快速、正確地交付。我們與 10 個最大的 OEM 廠商中的 6 個建立了合作夥伴關係，這些合作夥伴關係涉及我們的股份。我們擁有一些公司的股份，也擁有營運合作關係。實際上，它們的工作方式是相同的。我們正在與原始設備製造商一起利用銷售，即新車和有時二手車的銷售。

We have a historical partnership with Webmotors, you might recall that last year we sold our stake to car sales. In practical terms, nothing changed in terms of the operation. We remain totally integrated. Webmotors is one of the largest auto portals in the world. So our partnership remains very solid and strong.

我們與 Webmotors 有著歷史悠久的合作夥伴關係，您可能還記得去年我們將股份出售給汽車銷售。實際上，操作方面沒有任何變化。我們保持完全一體化。Webmotors 是世界上最大的汽車入口網站之一。因此，我們的合作夥伴關係仍然非常牢固和牢固。

In addition, we have a green consumer finance operation and we are constantly embracing initiatives related to electric vehicles, flex vehicles, partnership with BYD and other players. Therefore, we are growing with quality, bringing ESG to our agenda on the side of the consumer finance platform.

此外，我們也開展綠色消費金融業務，並持續採取與電動車、彈性汽車、與比亞迪和其他參與者合作相關的措施。因此，我們正在以品質求發展，將 ESG 納入我們消費金融平台的議程。

Speaking about agro business, in the quarter, if you look on a monthly basis, and quarter-on-quarter, we had a record origination quarter. Our portfolio grows almost 20% in two years. And our origination also grows. If you look at the volumes disburses, over 60%, we do that with a very high NPS score. And the quality of credit is even outstanding, outperforming the industry. Our NPL is coming down 0.0 percentage-points. So NPS and credit quality and volume growing significantly.

說到農業業務，在本季度，如果按月和按季度查看，我們的創紀錄的季度。我們的投資組合在兩年內成長了近 20%。我們的起源也在不斷發展。如果你看一下支付量，超過 60%，我們的 NPS 分數非常高。而且信用品質更是優秀，跑贏同業。我們的不良貸款下降了 0.0 個百分點。因此 NPS 和信用品質和數量顯著增長。

Here we zoom out in our SMEs. Last quarter, I referred to the launching of a new service model for SMEs. In practical terms, to recap, so what do we do? We remove from the stores the specialists for SMEs. So the manager is no longer sitting in the store, just serving a flow that not necessarily came from SMEs. But we reconnect these experts and we put them down the road, so they can cover a closer micro region.

在這裡，我們縮小了中小企業的範圍。上個季度，我提到推出針對中小企業的新服務模式。實際上，回顧一下，我們該怎麼辦？我們將中小企業專家從商店中撤出。所以店長不再坐在店裡，只是服務不一定來自中小企業的流量。但我們重新連接這些專家並將他們安排在路上，這樣他們就可以覆蓋更近的微觀區域。

In the past, we would cover hundreds of kilometers, sometimes 50 or 60 kilometers of area that was almost impossible to cover. But now, the range covered is much closer. So, the experts are out of the stores. They spend their days carrying their iPads and visiting clients all day long. Therefore, we increase the number of calls. So in a few months, we just increase the number of visits.

過去，我們要覆蓋數百公里，有時甚至50或60公里的區域，這幾乎是不可能覆蓋的。但現在，覆蓋的範圍更近了。因此，專家們都離開了商店。他們整天拿著 iPad 拜訪客戶。因此，我們增加了通話次數。所以幾個月後，我們只是增加造訪次數。

NPS increases because proximity multiplies NPS. And with that, we also have a better risk management because these clients on average are a bit more nervous. So being close to them is crucial. We can cover more clients. We are much closer and we increase the number of specialists by 25%.

NPS 會增加，因為距離越近，NPS 就越多。這樣，我們也有更好的風險管理，因為這些客戶平均來說有點緊張。因此，靠近他們至關重要。我們可以覆蓋更多的客戶。我們更加接近了，我們將專家數量增加了 25%。

We do believe in this model. We are investing in people. So this is a topic that involves people. So we are increasing that headcount by 25%. We will have more experts all over the country increasing our performance.

我們確實相信這個模型。我們正在投資於人。所以這是一個涉及人的話題。因此，我們將員工人數增加 25%。我們將在全國各地擁有更多的專家來提高我們的績效。

And on the right-hand side, we have other figures, again, based on technology. We do not have a slide on technology alone because technology is part of everything we do. Technology is part of Select's transformation. Technology is also part of free, it's part of our investment platform. And certainly, it's part of the transformation of our offering and the delivery of our experience for SMEs and corporate as a whole. Here, we talk about automation, digitalization. We talk about guarantees. We say that almost we have almost 100% of digitalized customers, 94%. We talk about lead time. Lead time is decreasing substantially in some of the products that we highlight here.

在右側，我們還有其他基於技術的數字。我們的幻燈片不僅涉及技術，因為技術是我們所做的一切的一部分。技術是 Select 轉型的一部分。科技也是免費的一部分，它是我們投資平台的一部分。當然，這是我們產品轉型以及為中小企業和整個企業提供經驗的一部分。這裡我們講自動化、數位化。我們談論保證。我們說幾乎我們有幾乎100%的數位化客戶，94%。我們談論交貨時間。我們在此重點介紹的一些產品的交貨時間正在大幅縮短。

And the NPS continues to grow. I do not like 41 of NPS, but it's much better than the 20 some that we had in the past. But that means that we are moving in the right direction with more profitable vintages and more engaged and loyal customers.

而且 NPS 還在持續成長。我不喜歡 41 個 NPS，但它比我們過去的 20 個要好得多。但這意味著我們正朝著正確的方向前進，我們的年份利潤更高，客戶參與度更高，忠誠度更高。

Here, we talk about investments. Investments that's one of the main pillars of our strategy. I have been talking about that since the first time we met, I said that we had to diversify towards an investment platform. I mean, the bank never focus on investment as being the main pillar, but we want to change the funding mix of the bank. I mean, from being more concentrated in wholesale to be more concentrated on the retail side, I will show you more of the data further on and we are very pleased with the results achieved.

在這裡，我們談談投資。投資是我們策略的主要支柱之一。從我們第一次見面我就一直在談論這個問題，我說我們必須向投資平台多元化。我的意思是，銀行從來不把投資當作主要支柱，但我們希望改變銀行的融資結構。我的意思是，從更集中在批發方面到更加集中在零售方面，我將進一步向您展示更多數據，我們對所取得的結果感到非常滿意。

So starting with that lower part, we had important progress in retail. Retail has never captured as much. Of course, we want to do a lot more funding. We will do move towards that direction. So a 5 times growth in investment in the past year that is very good. We are more consolidated and that will give us continuous growth. I mean the base is growing more and more, and I hope to be bringing good news in the future as well.

因此，從較低的部分開始，我們在零售方面取得了重要進展。零售業從未獲得過如此多的關注。當然，我們希望提供更多資金。我們確實會朝這個方向前進。因此，過去一年投資成長了 5 倍，這是非常好的。我們更加鞏固，這將使我們持續成長。我的意思是，基地正在變得越來越大，我希望將來也能帶來好消息。

This is executable and we will not be distracted in terms of retail. The Zoo of retail is AAA. AAA, is our advisory services at first we wanted to reach 1,200 advisors, but now the target has gone to 2000. But we know that with 2000 advisers we will be able to provide unique service through AAA. It is unique because we offer a good basic, it has a technological base which is comparable to any other good experience available in the market. And proximity is very unique.

這是可執行的，我們不會在零售方面分心。零售動物園是 AAA 級。AAA，是我們的諮詢服務，最初我們希望達到1200名顧問，但現在目標已經到了2000名。但我們知道，憑藉 2000 名顧問，我們將能夠透過 AAA 提供獨特的服務。它是獨一無二的，因為我們提供了良好的基礎，它的技術基礎可與市場上任何其他良好的體驗相媲美。而且鄰近性非常獨特。

And I see, I say that with we no arrogance at all, our AAA service level is outstanding. Our design is very good. And with organic capture or funding of clients, because we can even excel. This gives us a greater possibility to serve clients. We can talk more about it. We will bring net inflow and we will keep an eye on our client because all of the targets are very much aligned with client view. All of these standards related to direct sales and compliance. It helps us to grow the business significantly we are very pleased because this quarter we reached over BRL6 billion.

我明白了，我說，我們一點也不傲慢，我們的 AAA 服務水準非常出色。我們的設計非常好。透過有機捕獲或資助客戶，因為我們甚至可以脫穎而出。這使我們有更大的可能性為客戶服務。我們可以多談談。我們將帶來淨流入，我們將密切關注我們的客戶，因為所有目標都與客戶的觀點非常一致。所有這些標準都與直銷和合規性有關。它幫助我們顯著發展業務，我們對此感到非常高興，因為本季我們的業務規模超過 60 億雷亞爾。

Of course, the bar is increasing. We reach BRL6.5 billion and the number per advisor is 4 million users in the quarter. And this number is well, it compares quite well with the market numbers. And for all investors, clients and individuals, all individuals starting June, they will have a new digital experience. Renewed is almost like a new portal with profitability experience, usability experience, and different menus, and usability, everything at a different level. And we're very pleased with that evolution.

當然，門檻正在增加。本季我們達到 65 億雷亞爾，每位顧問的用戶數為 400 萬。這個數字很好，與市場數字相比相當不錯。對於所有投資者、客戶和個人來說​​，從六月開始，所有個人都將擁有新的數位體驗。Renewed 幾乎就像一個新的門戶，具有盈利體驗、可用性體驗、不同的菜單和可用性，一切都處於不同的水平。我們對這種演變感到非常滿意。

And with that, I will call Gustavo to talk about the results, and then I will come back to talk about the closing remarks for the quarter. Thank you.

接下來，我會打電話給古斯塔沃談論結果，然後我會回來談論本季的結束語。謝謝。

Thank you, Mario. Good morning, everyone. Let's talk about our results. NII continues to expand year-on-year, growing 11%. This reflects the evolution of our strategy on both client and market NII.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。大家早安。我們來談談我們的結果。NII持續較去年成長，成長11%。這反映了我們在客戶和市場 NII 方面的策略的演變。

In the quarter, client NII benefited from an increased volume, which offset the effect of the select interest rate on funding quarter-on-quarter. Spread variation in the quarter is basically explained by the variation in the Selic rate and the mix, especially the non-revolving card portfolio which grew 4%.

本季度，客戶 NII 受益於交易量的增加，抵消了特定利率對融資的季度環比影響。本季利差變化基本上是由 Selic 利率和組合的變化解釋的，特別是非循環卡投資組合增長了 4%。

In market NII, on the other hand, ALM operations progressed as plant and continued to show a positive trend for the years we have been mentioning in prior quarters. The reduction in the quarter in market NII reflects a lower result in treasury operations due to the fact of market volatility observed in this quarter. We seek long term sustainable expansion with active risk management, price discipline and technical rigor when making resource allocation decisions.

另一方面，在市場 NII 中，ALM 運作隨著工廠的進展而不斷發展，並繼續呈現我們在前幾個季度提到的這些年的積極趨勢。本季市場NII 的下降反映了由於本季市場波動而導致資金營運表現下降。在製定資源配置決策時，我們透過積極的風險管理、價格紀律和技術嚴謹性尋求長期可持續擴張。

On the next slide, as mentioned we show that our loan portfolio grew by 8% year-on-year, with a positive evolution in all segments. In individuals, the portfolio grew by 1% with a balance between higher and lower risk products. With the highlight going to the cards portfolio, which grew 4% in the quarter and payroll loans, which grew 2%. Actually in cards, as Mario mentioned, we are increasing activation and gradually expanding our client base.

在下一張投影片中，正如我們所提到的，我們的貸款組合年增了 8%，所有細分領域都取得了積極的進展。在個人方面，投資組合成長了 1%，高風險產品和低風險產品之間取得了平衡。其中最引人注目的是信用卡投資組合，該投資組合在本季增加了 4%，而薪資貸款則增加了 2%。實際上，正如馬裡奧提到的，在紙牌方面，我們正在增加激活並逐漸擴大我們的客戶群。

As for payroll loans, we continue to increase origination more and more through our own channels, with a 21% increase in share in two years, which gives us greater profitability. With regard to auto loans, the market continues to be buoyant and we are keeping up with this trend. We grew 4.5% in the quarter, and as seen before, with our well-adjusted portfolios. In SME, this was a significant increase in the portfolio, a segment that we are prepared to grow at a good pace as we saw before. Based on our team and on technology, the large corporate portfolios benefited from the exchange rate in the quarter and here we continue to maintain our profitability discipline.

至於薪資貸款，我們繼續透過自己的管道越來越多地增加發放量，兩年內份額增加了21%，這給我們帶來了更大的盈利能力。在汽車貸款方面，市場持續活躍，我們也緊跟著這個趨勢。如同先前所見，我們的投資組合經過精心調整，本季成長了 4.5%。在中小企業中，這是投資組合的顯著增加，我們準備像之前看到的那樣以良好的速度成長。基於我們的團隊和技術，大型企業投資組合受益於本季的匯率，在這裡我們繼續保持我們的獲利紀律。

Moving on to the next slide, we present our funding performance. Our liabilities plan continues at a good pace aimed at improving the mix of client segments and funding instruments. We recorded growth of 3% in the quarter and 10% over the previous year. I would like to highlight the 4.5% increase in the quarter in demand deposits, as well as the good growth in term deposits, savings and letters of credit.

轉到下一張投影片，我們將展示我們的融資績效。我們的負債計劃繼續保持良好的步伐，旨在改善客戶群和融資工具的組合。本季我們的成長率為 3%，較前一年成長 10%。我想強調本季活期存款成長 4.5%，以及定期存款、儲蓄和信用證的良好成長。

The strategy of increasing retail exposure in our mix continues to make progress. And as a result, we have seen an increase of 2-percentage-points in the share of individuals over the last two years. As we have mentioned, this is a structural and gradual change, and we are pleased with the evolution of our strategy. To close the slide, the loan to deposits ratio, it is at an all-time high, reaching 93%.

增加零售業務在我們組合中的策略繼續取得進展。結果，我們看到過去兩年個人的比例增加了 2 個百分點。正如我們所提到的，這是一個結構性的、漸進的變化，我們對我們策略的演變感到滿意。結束滑坡時，存貸比處於歷史最高水平，達到93%。

I will now comment on the performance of our fees and commission. We reached all-time highs this quarter as a result of our revenue diversification strategy property. our quarterly growth was 6% and our annual growth was almost 18%. I'd like to highlight the 7.2% growth in cards in the quarter and 13% growth in the year showing this resumption.

我現在將評論我們的費用和佣金的表現。由於我們的收入多元化策略，我們本季達到了歷史新高。我們的季度成長率為 6%，年度成長率接近 18%。我想強調一下，本季信用卡業務成長了 7.2%，全年信用卡業務成長了 13%，顯示了這次恢復。

Insurance, current account and assets all showed increases of more than 4% in the quarter and significant year-on-year growth. Another relevant point is that the securities brokerage and placement line item continues to grow, driven by debt issuances which grew 12% in the quarter. In the line item others, the biggest quarterly increase came from the savings bonds.

保險、經常項目和資產季度增幅均超過4%，較去年同期成長顯著。另一個相關點是，在本季債務發行成長 12% 的推動下，證券經紀和配售項目持續成長。在其他項目中，最大的季度成長來自儲蓄債券。

Regarding the quality of our assets, we continue to have a controlled ALL, allowance for loan losses with a slight drop in the quarter, which together with the increase in the portfolio, resulted in a cost of credit of 3.7%, accumulating a reduction of 80 basis points in 12 months.

從資產品質來看，我們繼續控制ALL，貸款損失準備金本季略有下降，加上投資組合的增加，導致信貸成本為3.7％，累計減少12 個月內上漲 80 個基點。

NPL formation showed a positive performance, reflecting the better quality of our origination spending at 1.2%. Lastly, due to the better quality of the vintages. The renegotiated portfolio is already more than BRL5 billion smaller than in Q2 (technical difficulty), we posted a reduction of 150 basis points in relation to the total portfolio last year.

不良貸款形成表現出正面的表現，反映出我們的發起支出品質較好，為 1.2%。最後，由於年份的品質較好。重新談判的投資組合已經比第二季（技術難度）減少了 50 億雷亞爾以上，我們公佈的投資組合總額比去年減少了 150 個基點。

Moving to the next slide here. Here we provide details on the performance of our delinquency indicators. Our loan branding remains well-balanced and the portfolios are duly adjusted.

前往此處的下一張投影片。在這裡，我們提供了有關拖欠指標表現的詳細資訊。我們的貸款品牌保持良好平衡，投資組合也得到適當調整。

The short-term indicator improved in all segments. In the long-term indicator, we saw stability overall. We saw an improvement in individuals and the opposite behavior in companies. The increase in SMEs is concentrated specifically in what we call E1, which includes companies with an annual turnover of up to BRL3 million. This behavior is partly explained by the renegotiated portfolio, as mentioned in the previous quarter. However, it is important to note here that the short-term indicators have been adjusted, which suggests a more positive trend ahead.

所有細分市場的短期指標均有所改善。從長期指標來看，我們看到整體穩定。我們看到個人有所改善，但公司的行為卻相反。中小企業的成長主要集中在我們所謂的 E1 領域，其中包括年營業額高達 300 萬雷亞爾的公司。如上一季所述，這種行為的部分原因是重新協商的投資組合。然而，這裡值得注意的是，短期指標已經調整，這表明未來的趨勢更加積極。

This is the next slide we have details on our expenses. We continue to make progress in our quest for efficiency focusing on cost control. During the quarter, total expenses remain stable. The increase in administrative expenses is due to a higher volume of data processing by virtue of the growth of our business. And this was offset by a reduction in personnel expenses in the year-on-year comparison, the growth in expenses was below that of revenues. Helping to evolve is our operating leverage. As a result of our effective management, we saw sequential improvement in our efficiency ratio, which fell by 4 percentage-points year-on-year.

這是下一張投影片，我們詳細介紹了我們的費用。我們在追求效率、注重成本控制方面不斷取得進展。本季總支出保持穩定。管理費用的增加是由於我們業務的成長導致數據處理量增加。而這被同比人員費用的減少所抵消，費用增長低於收入增長。幫助發展的是我們的營運槓桿。透過有效管理，我們的效率較上季提升，較去年同期下降4個百分點。

To conclude, the earnings results section represents our income statement. Year-on-year, we saw a 12% increase in total revenues, driven by NII and by a good performance of fees and commissions. Provisions dropped in the quarterly and annual comparison, and we maintained our strict control over expenses, resulting in a profit of BRL3.3 billion. This represents an increase of 44% in 12 months. We ended the quarter with growth in profitability, with ROE of 15.5% and common equity Tier 1 of 11.20%.

總而言之，收益結果部分代表了我們的損益表。在NII以及良好的費用和佣金表現的推動下，我們的總收入年增了12%。撥備按季度和年度比較下降，嚴格控制費用，實現利潤33億雷亞爾。這意味著 12 個月內成長了 44%。本季結束時，我們的獲利能力有所成長，淨資產收益率為 15.5%，一級普通股為 11.20%。

Finally, I would like to highlight that we are focused on a gradual resumption of our results, which have evolved in keeping with our expectations. Our goal is long-term sustainability, with solidity and consistency of our results.

最後，我想強調的是，我們的重點是逐步恢復我們的業績，這些業績的發展符合我們的預期。我們的目標是長期可持續性，以及我們結果的穩定性和一致性。

That concludes my part, and I turn the floor back to Mario for his closing remarks.

我的部分到此結束，我將請馬裡奧發表結束語。

Thank you, Gustavo. So, just to close very quickly, so we can start the Q&A, and I'm sure you'll have more questions. And I just have five take-home messages connecting with everything we've been talking about.

謝謝你，古斯塔沃。所以，我想盡快結束，這樣我們就可以開始問答，我相信您會有更多問題。我只有五條帶回家的信息，它們與我們一直在談論的一切有關。

We don't have a lot of new elements in the strategy, which is good. It shows we are consistent in what we designed. In 2022, 2023 we were focused on designing the bank we want to have in the next five years and beyond and this is summarized in these five pillars.

我們的戰略中沒有太多新元素，這很好。這表明我們的設計是一致的。2022 年、2023 年，我們專注於設計我們希望在未來五年及以後擁有的銀行，這概括為這五個支柱。

We want to be the most present bank in our customers' lives. This is the main motto. It cascades down on all the rest. We want to have primacy, using intensely our technology. You'll hear more and more. We're talking about technology as the main enabler, so we can have principality. We want to have the right customer experience and the interconnection among the channels.

我們希望成為客戶生活中最貼近的銀行。這是主要的座右銘。它會像瀑布一樣傾瀉到其餘的一切。我們希望佔據主導地位，並充分利用我們的技術。你會聽到越來越多的聲音。我們談論的是技術作為主要推動者，因此我們可以擁有主導權。我們希望擁有正確的客戶體驗以及通路之間的互聯互通。

Free offering is the answer. It's a powerful tool for mass income offerings. It will bring more activation, more conversion, more margin, the right margin in the right assets and not the short-term margin. And we will be counting less on, we'll count more on collateralized products and on cards in the offering, given that cards represent a lot in principality and usability in client's day-to-day relationship with the bank.

免費提供就是答案。它是提供大眾收入的強大工具。它將帶來更多的活化、更多的轉化、更多的保證金，正確資產的正確保證金，而不是短期保證金。我們將減少依賴，我們將更依賴抵押產品和產品中的銀行卡，因為銀行卡在客戶與銀行的日常關係中代表著重要的原則和可用性。

We'll consistently advance our strategic business and we'll continue consistently to work for non-linear growth because our market is not linear, but consistent to solid growth with quality. And this translates into a mid to long term view of profitability, one, two steps at a time in the right direction. So that we can grow with speed where we believe we can grow with speed to deliver solid results, as Gustavo mentioned.

我們將持續推進我們的策略業務，我們將繼續持續致力於非線性成長，因為我們的市場不是線性的，但始終保持穩定的高品質成長。這轉化為對獲利能力的中長期看法，朝著正確的方向一次邁出兩步。正如古斯塔沃所提到的，這樣我們就可以快速成長，我們相信我們可以快速成長並取得紮實的成果。

With this, I invite you for the Q&A session.

在此，我邀請您參加問答環節。

(Event Instructions)

（活動須知）

Brian Flores, Citibank.

布萊恩·弗洛雷斯，花旗銀行。

Thank you for this opportunity and Congrats on your results. My question is on SME. You talked about changes to your model, and it's very clear to me what you've been doing. I would just try to understand a bit better why did we see delinquency increasing in the quarter? And so, if you could elaborate a bit more on that issue, that will be useful. And also, if you talk about the performance of the sector, the dynamics, that will be very good.

感謝您給我這個機會，並祝賀您所取得的成果。我的問題是關於中小企業的。您談到了對模型的更改，我很清楚您一直在做什麼。我只是想更好地理解為什麼我們看到本季拖欠率增加？因此，如果您能詳細說明這個問題，那將會很有用。而且，如果你談論該行業的表現和動態，那將非常好。

I will start and then I'll turn it to Gustavo. First, I will refer to the strategy and how this connects to the risk management that we've been doing for over a year. And finally, I'll refer to the numbers themselves.

我先開始，然後交給古斯塔沃。首先，我將介紹該策略以及它如何與我們一年多以來一直在進行的風險管理連結起來。最後，我將參考數字本身。

We've been talking about our strategy, and that means that we want to double our business of SMEs in the next few years. I cannot give you the exact date, but certainly it cannot be in 10 years. But in a few years, we want to double our business because we believe there is room for that. And we would do that not linearly because this is not a mathematical equation, but we want to double the size of the business.

我們一直在談論我們的策略，這意味著我們希望在未來幾年內將中小企業業務翻一番。我無法告訴你確切的日期，但肯定不可能是 10 年後。但幾年後，我們希望將業務增加一倍，因為我們相信還有空間。我們不會線性地做到這一點，因為這不是一個數學方程，但我們希望將業務規模擴大一倍。

Just as a reminder, in December of 2023 we had already doubled the numbers vis-a-vis 2021. So we doubled that number once and we want to double it again. But, certainly, we will do that the correct way. And this applies to every segment of SMEs, but certainly there are different clusters. There are small companies, there's small midsize, and we call them in the bank companies one, two, three.

提醒一下，2023 年 12 月，我們的數字已經比 2021 年翻了一番。因此，我們將這個數字增加了一倍，並且我們希望再次將其增加一倍。但是，我們肯定會以正確的方式做到這一點。這適用於中小企業的各個部分，但肯定存在不同的集群。有小公司，有中小型公司，我們在銀行公司中稱它們為一、二、三。

In the very small company segment, company one, we needed to renew our service. And I already talked about that during my presentation and I'm pleased to know that you recognize that. We believe that we have something much better now. And certainly, very soon, we will have a business of small companies that will grow in a very sound and consistent way.

在非常小的公司部門，即第一公司，我們需要更新我們的服務。我已經在演講中談到了這一點，我很高興知道您認識到這一點。我們相信我們現在擁有更好的東西。當然，很快我們的小公司業務就會以非常健全和持續的方式發展。

But how does that connect to risk management? The fact that I have some thousands of experts spread all over Brazil and knocking the doors of our clients, so to speak. That means that our marginal risk management is much better. And this also allows us to manage our inventories much better.

但這與風險管理有何關聯？事實上，我有數千名專家遍布巴西各地，可以說是敲開我們客戶的大門。這意味著我們的邊際風險管理要好得多。這也使我們能夠更好地管理我們的庫存。

How are we managing small companies and individuals in the last 12 to 13 months? Since the second quarter of last year, we changed our renegotiation policies. And we've been referring to that. We are not so open anymore to renegotiate debt with no cash components. We are being more restrictive in the way that we allow the renegotiation to roll out.

過去 12 到 13 個月我們如何管理小公司和個人？從去年第二季開始，我們改變了重新談判的政策。我們一直在提到這一點。我們不再那麼願意重新協商沒有現金成分的債務。我們對重新談判的展開採取了更嚴格的限制。

A portfolio of BRL5 billion reflects a most sensitive agreement policy, which is very good for the health of the portfolio. And it's also good because our de-risking is more accelerated in terms of the portfolio. And some rates are affected because we are not rolling over anymore.

50億雷亞爾的投資組合反映了最敏感的協議政策，這對投資組合的健康非常有好處。這也很好，因為我們的投資組合去風險化速度更快。一些費率受到影響，因為我們不再展期。

But I can turn that question over to Gustavo, but this stems from a more asset, so to speak, management of our legacy portfolio. This legacy portfolio is more predominant among individuals, but more so with very small companies. That's why raising the bar in this portfolio allows us to touch in some ratios or indexes. But this has to do with a new generation of very small companies and more to do with that inventory.

但我可以把這個問題轉交給古斯塔沃，但這源自於更多的資產，可以說，是對我們遺留投資組合的管理。這種遺留投資組合在個人中更占主導地位，但在非常小的公司中更是如此。這就是為什麼提高這個投資組合的標準允許我們觸及某些比率或指數。但這與新一代非常小的公司有關，更​​多地與庫存有關。

Hi, Brian. And then you will also notice that NPL 1590 of this segment is under control is performing well. So in terms of legacy portfolios. And as Mario was saying, with our new renegotiation strategy, I mean, things are very clear and NPL 1390 and the new vintages performance is very good. So it's a one-off thing and it stems from what Mario said before, and NPL 15 to 90 is performing well.

嗨，布萊恩。然後您還會注意到，該細分市場的 NPL 1590 受到控制，表現良好。就遺留投資組合而言。正如馬裡奧所說，透過我們新的重新談判策略，我的意思是，事情非常清楚，NPL 1390 和新年份的表現非常好。所以這是一次性的事情，這源自於馬裡奧之前所說的，NPL 15到90表現都很好。

In summary, it has more to do with the portfolio de-risking rather than marginal origination. So I would say marginal origination tends to be a better quality, not only because of the policies, but with everything else we did, especially after 2022 and the new model will help us because the new model will increase proximity, something we didn't have as much with our with our clients.

總之，它與投資組合去風險有關，而不是與邊際起源有關。所以我想說，邊際起源往往品質更好，不僅因為政策，還因為我們所做的一切，特別是在2022 年之後，新模型將幫助我們，因為新模型將增加接近度，這是我們沒有做到的與我們的客戶一樣多。

I mean, look at the number of calls that we have now I'm in I assure you we want to increase the number of visits, not only increase the number of visits, but visits with quality. I want my experts almost like camping in the house of the slide. This will not only increase volume, but results. I hope I answered your question.

我的意思是，看看我們現在接到的電話數量，我向你們保證，我們希望增加訪問次數，不僅增加訪問次數，而且提高訪問品質。我希望我的專家幾乎就像在滑梯的房子裡露營一樣。這不僅會增加數量，還會增加結果。我希望我回答了你的問題。

Daniel Vas, Safra Bank.

丹尼爾·瓦斯，薩夫拉銀行。

Good morning, Camila. Good morning, Mario, and Gustavo. Congrats on your results. I would like to take a second look at the spreads. I will split my question into two. Your portfolio mix. And now I see you are accelerating mass income and also high income has become your priority. What would be the behavior of your spread?

早安，卡米拉。早上好，馬裡奧和古斯塔沃。恭喜你的結果。我想再看一下價差。我將我的問題分成兩個。你的投資組合。現在我看到你們正在加速大眾收入，高收入也成為你們的首要任務。您的傳播行為會是什麼？

First, looking at client mix, and secondly, looking at the rates from your peers. I mean, tight rates in terms of payroll loan. What will be the progress of your spreads going forward? Thank you.

首先，查看客戶組合，其次，查看同行的費率。我的意思是，薪資貸款方面的利率收緊。今後你們的點差進展如何？謝謝。

Well, certainly, when we look at the spread, we look at the gross profitability of the portfolio, but we are taking a deeper look to the profitability of the portfolio I'm generating. I'm not saying that we are not interested on the spread. Spread is important, but I do not want to demonize the portfolio, the credit portfolio.

好吧，當然，當我們查看利差時，我們會查看投資組合的毛盈利能力，但我們正在更深入地研究我正在生成的投資組合的盈利能力。我並不是說我們對價差不感興趣。利差很重要，但我不想妖魔化投資組合、信貸投資組合。

The spread comes from several dozens of percentage points. It could be 40% to 42%, Daniel, but I do not want to rely on that spread because the net spread of provisions is not a good spread. So, of course, there will be a certain amount of personal loans that is very much connected to the payment journey.

價差有幾十個百分點。丹尼爾，可能是 40% 到 42%，但我不想依賴這個利差，因為規定的淨利差並不是一個好的利差。因此，當然，會有一定數量的個人貸款與付款旅程密切相關。

So, personal loan that is disconnected from principality, from the credit card journey, from the journey of transactionality of PICs, because it's becoming just one single thing. We call it a payment journey or consumption or consumer journey.

因此，個人貸款與公國、信用卡旅程、PIC 交易旅程脫節，因為它正在變得只是一件事。我們稱之為支付旅程或消費或消費者旅程。

So, in terms of portfolio midterm view, it would have less risk in terms of mix. So, credit card would be the major clean element of my portfolio because it's crucial to have a credit card as a clean element. It doesn't mean that I'm going to open to everybody at a volume of BRL100,000 per client. I will accept having lower limits when compared to my historical levels, and I can only do that if my unit cost falls quickly because this is an important evolution, and we will talk more about that further on. But the credit card has to be the clean element of the offering because this translates the client's connection with the bank on a day-to-day basis, but this has to be based on collateralized instruments.

因此，從投資組合中期的角度來看，其組合風險較小。因此，信用卡將是我投資組合中主要的清潔元素，因為擁有信用卡作為清潔元素至關重要。這並不意味著我會以每個客戶 100,000 雷亞爾的數量向所有人開放。與我的歷史水平相比，我會接受較低的限制，並且只有當我的單位成本迅速下降時我才能做到這一點，因為這是一個重要的演變，我們將進一步討論這一點。但信用卡必須是產品中的乾淨元素，因為這會轉化客戶與銀行的日常聯繫，但這必須基於抵押工具。

And we want to have all of the other things coming from that. Home equity, they were called -- We are already leaders in home equity in Brazil, about 25%. And I don't think that's enough. I think that the portfolio is not so relevant, but I think we can do a lot more in terms of structured financing.

我們希望所有其他的事情都來自於此。他們稱之為房屋淨值——我們已經是巴西房屋淨值的領先者，約佔 25%。我認為這還不夠。我認為投資組合並不是那麼重要，但我認為我們在結構性融資方面可以做更多的事情。

But the pivoting point would be the credit card. So we will migrate to less risk. And if the price to get there is the nominal spread, I'm not going to struggle because the net margin will have much better quality, and this will certainly be translated into the bank's profitability. Our design is profitability, et cetera. So we will grow with profitability. So therefore, I will look for an equation that involves a net spread.

但轉折點將是信用卡。所以我們將遷移到風險較小的地方。如果到達那裡的價格是名義利差，我就不會掙扎，因為淨利潤將有更好的質量，這肯定會轉化為銀行的盈利能力。我們的設計是獲利能力等等。因此，我們將隨著獲利能力的成長而成長。因此，我將尋找一個涉及淨利差的方程式。

On the liability side, the NII comes on the right and the left side of the balance sheet. So we are getting a cheaper funding for the bank. Maybe in one quarter, I may give a leap, but in some years, we will see some gradual improvement, individuals versus corporate.

負債方面，NII 位於資產負債表的右側和左側。因此，我們為銀行提供了更便宜的資金。也許在一個季度裡，我可能會實現一個飛躍，但在某些年裡，我們會看到個人與企業之間的一些逐步改善。

So retail funding for the entire industry is cheaper when compared to wholesale funding. Many percentage points of CDI is cheaper. And as we gradually improve quarter-on-quarter, we will see an increasing margin on the funding side. Even CDB has a lower spread. But we will have cheaper funding of the money that remains in the account. So the mix is much better. One point that I would like to stress is that we make a decision aiming at the performance of the portfolio. It's not spread alone, but how the performance evolves in terms of profitability. So the decisions we'll make for client and the combined product looks at the evolution we envision for the portfolio aiming at profitability.

因此，與批發融資相比，整個產業的零售融資更便宜。CDI 便宜很多百分點。隨著我們季度環比逐步改善，我們將看到融資方面的利潤率不斷增加。甚至國開行的利差也更低。但我們將以更便宜的方式為帳戶中剩餘的資金提供資金。所以混合效果好得多。我想強調的一點是，我們所做的決定是針對投資組合的表現。它不僅僅是傳播，而是在獲利能力方面業績如何演變。因此，我們將為客戶和組合產品所做的決策著眼於我們對以獲利為目標的投資組合的演變設想。

If I can do a follow-up question, you said that the pivoting element is still the credit card. We see a digital competitor of yours doing PICs finance as an embedded product in the credit card. How do you see that product and whether this is also part of that mass income product of yours?

如果我可以追問一下，您說核心要素仍然是信用卡。我們看到您的數位競爭對手正在將 PIC 金融作為信用卡中的嵌入式產品進行開發。您如何看待該產品？

Okay, great question. Thank you for raising that issue. Whenever I say that we our view is based on the journey rather than a product alone. I'm not phrasing A or B, but that view that the client no longer wanted to have a private relationship with the bank. This is something that is here to stay. I mean, there is no going back. A client, they want to have a journey relationship and the main journey that individuals wants to have, I mean corporate will be the same, but the main journey that clients want to have with us is transactionality.

好的，很好的問題。感謝您提出這個問題。每當我說我們時，我們的觀點都是基於旅程，而不僅僅是產品。我不是表達 A 或 B，而是認為客戶不再希望與銀行建立私人關係。這是永遠存在的東西。我的意思是，沒有回頭路了。對於客戶來說，他們想要建立一種旅程關係，個人想要擁有的主要旅程，我的意思是企業是一樣的，但客戶想要與我們一起擁有的主要旅程是交易性。

And with transactionality, there is no distinction between overdraft account or credit card account. We have to offer an integrated limit. And so, no matter how they consume things, consumption defined as supermarket purchases, payment slips and -- transactions, at the end, everything boils down to transactionality and everything has to be integrated.

就交易性而言，透支帳戶或信用卡帳戶之間沒有區別。我們必須提供綜合限制。因此，無論他們如何消費東西，消費定義為超市購物、付款單和交易，最終，一切都歸結為交易性，一切都必須整合。

We have a very clear design of payment journeys and we are working towards having the best journey in the market in just a few months and we will deliver that. So certainly the short-term view is to have a unique journey. So together with the -- journey, which is a very simple and very seamless journey in the market, the entire payment journey will be integrated with the card.

我們有非常清晰的支付旅程設計，我們正在努力在短短幾個月內打造市場上最好的旅程，我們將實現這一目標。因此，短期的觀點當然是擁有一趟獨特的旅程。因此，與市場上非常簡單且非常無縫的旅程一起，整個支付旅程將與卡片整合。

Jorge Kuri, Morgan Stanley.

豪爾赫‧庫裡，摩根士丹利。

Good morning. thanks for taking the time to answer questions and thanks for the presentation. I wanted to ask about market and NII. You did BRL258 million this quarter, which was down sequentially. What extent this number going forward is a result of market volatility and to what extent is a result of the absolute level of rate. And there's evidently been a big shift in the way the market thinks about selling rates going forward, if it did, the consensus is right and Selic stays at 10.50% throughout this year and next year, how much of a recovery can we see that number from the BRL258 million that you did in quarter?

早安.感謝您花時間回答問題並感謝您的演示。我想問一下市場和NII的情況。本季您的營收為 2.58 億雷亞爾，季減。未來這個數字在多大程度上是市場波動的結果，在多大程度上是利率絕對水準的結果。顯然，市場對未來銷售利率的看法發生了重大轉變，如果確實如此，那麼共識是正確的，Selic 在今年和明年都保持在 10.50%，我們能看到這個數字有多大程度的複蘇您上季度完成的2.58 億巴西雷亞爾？

Although we don't provide formal guidances, in terms of how we think about the numbers, this number has two components, like Gustavo mentioned and you know well. The first number is our ALCO portfolio, our ALMM. In that portfolio, we have been repricing our funding of the retail business for a few years already. That's the piece of the portfolio which with the higher rates very rapidly in Brazil between late 2022 and 2023, that piece of the portfolio suffered. You know well, we explained it every quarter.

儘管我們沒有提供正式的指導，但就我們如何看待這些數字而言，這個數字有兩個組成部分，就像古斯塔沃提到的那樣，你也很清楚。第一個數字是我們的 ALCO 產品組合，也就是我們的 ALMM。在該投資組合中，我們幾年來一直在重新定價零售業務的資金。由於 2022 年底至 2023 年巴西利率迅速上升，投資組合中的這一部分受到了影響。你很清楚，我們每季都會對此進行解釋。

That repricing of the retail funding of the portfolio, the margin of the front book as we call it, that repricing has been undertaken basically and we are going to keep progressing on the results, so we don't have any cost to be paid on that repricing. The repricing is fully implemented. It took us 18 months, give or take, which is normally the speed. So that's the piece which Gustavo mentioned that we should keep progressing through the next few quarters and obviously as we enter into 2025.

投資組合的零售資金的重新定價，我們稱之為前帳本的保證金，重新定價基本上已經進行，我們將繼續取得成果，因此我們不需要支付任何成本那個重新定價。重新定價已全面實施。我們花了 18 個月的時間，這通常是這個速度。這就是 Gustavo 提到的，我們應該在接下來的幾個季度，尤其是在進入 2025 年時繼續取得進展。

The dynamics change with the Selic rate now at 10.50% probably throughout late this year and most next year, who knows. But that impacts mostly the funding of our back book, which is how we basically invest our capital. So the funding of our capital is going to be made at a higher rate than we felt before. So that margin is lower than what we expected.

動態發生變化，Selic 利率目前為 10.50%，可能貫穿今年年底和明年的大部分時間，誰知道呢。但這主要影響我們的後台資金，這就是我們投資資本的基本方式。因此，我們的資本融資將以比我們之前預想的更高的速度進行。因此，該利潤率低於我們的預期。

But the overall, the juncture of how we price our front book, how we fund our back book, we view positively in the next few quarters. So it's not a guidance, but the outlook should be constructive as how we see that piece, which is a big piece progressing over the next few quarters. The second element is market making, as we call it, which is the way we handle and square the risks arising from our markets or sales and trading business. And that's where we captured the volatility we saw in the second quarter. It was, I would say, a tremendous volatility.

但整體而言，我們對未來幾季的正面書籍定價、背面書籍融資方式持正面態度。因此，這不是一個指導，但正如我們如何看待該部分，前景應該是建設性的，這是未來幾季取得進展的重要部分。第二個要素是我們所說的做市，這是我們處理和平衡市場或銷售和交易業務產生的風險的方式。這就是我們在第二季度看到的波動的地方。我想說，這是巨大的波動。

Globally, but in Brazil particularly, with nominal rates going more than 100 basis points up, nominal rates going maybe 50 basis points up, FX, et cetera, and that obviously caught us partially. We still made money in that business, but less so than in the first quarter where we had actually a seller production. It's harder to predict a business which is on the squaring of businesses from clients and that depends more on market volatility and how we capture that. We view that business positively. It has been a strong component of our P&L delivery, Jorge, but it's hard to predict the direction. It's obviously not linear.

在全球範圍內，特別是在巴西，名目利率上漲超過 100 個基點，外匯等名目利率可能會上漲 50 個基點，這顯然讓我們部分受到影響。我們仍然在該業務中賺錢，但比第一季少，當時我們實際上有賣家生產。預測一項業務是比較困難的，因為它取決於客戶的業務，並且更多地取決於市場波動以及我們如何捕捉這種波動。我們對該業務持積極態度。Jorge，它一直是我們損益交付的重要組成部分，但很難預測方向。這顯然不是線性的。

But we feel positive as to the way we run our VARs, the way we have our franchise established. We are the number one franchise for FX in Brazil, number one in rates. So we do have a lot of flows to capture and that should allow us to trade that, to square those positions well. So we view that positively, but, again, it's a business which is harder to predict.

但我們對我們經營 VAR 的方式以及我們建立特許經營權的方式感到積極。我們是巴西第一大外匯特許經營商，匯率第一。因此，我們確實有很多流量需要捕獲，這應該使我們能夠進行交易，很好地平衡這些頭寸。因此，我們對此持積極態度，但同樣，這是一項更難以預測的業務。

The ALCO business is easier to predict and we view that constructively, like I said. I would say, overall, we feel good about our markets NII through the next few quarters, but again there's an element which is market dependent, which us and no one else can precisely predict, but we feel positive about the overall line.

ALCO 業務更容易預測，正如我所說，我們對此持建設性看法。我想說，總體而言，我們對未來幾季的市場NII感覺良好，但同樣存在一個依賴市場的因素，我們和其他人都無法準確預測這一因素，但我們對整體情況感到樂觀。

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

馬裡奧·皮里，美國銀行。

Congratulations on the results. Many positive trends here, operational trends, but I'd like to focus more on fees and commissions. We see fees and commissions in the last four years not growing. And in this quarter, we saw a significant increase, particularly in the current accounts, checking accounts.

祝賀結果。這裡有許多積極的趨勢，營運趨勢，但我想更多地關注費用和佣金。我們看到過去四年的費用和佣金沒有增加。在本季度，我們看到了顯著的成長，特別是經常帳戶和支票帳戶。

And I would like to understand how you see the dynamic of this line item going forward. Particularly what the growth will come from volume or price, how do you see competition, holding back prices, is there any room to increase prices or have we achieved a price level that has decreased enough and there's no more room to decrease?

我想了解您如何看待該訂單項目的未來動態。特別是成長將來自數量或價格，您如何看待競爭，抑制價格，是否有提高價格的空間，或者我們已經實現了足夠下降的價格水平並且沒有更多的下降空間？

Thank you. I'll started. Gustavo will complement. Of course, we are happy with the performance of our fees and commissions. It is true, we had modest growth in fees and commissions for quite a while. Again, we built a successful business in 2015, 2021 cycle based on credit growth, plus we grew other line items too, but the loan book grew and it's clear to us that we have to support a loan book with a more smart and more diversified credit.

謝謝。我就開始吧古斯塔沃將予以補充。當然，我們對費用和佣金的表現感到滿意。確實，我們的費用和佣金在相當長的一段時間裡一直在小幅增長。同樣，我們在2015 年和2021 年的周期中基於信貸增長建立了成功的業務，而且我們也增長了其他項目，但貸款賬簿有所增長，我們很清楚，我們必須以更智能、更多元化的方式支持貸款帳簿。

And I don't want to suggest that we are going to grow 6% quarter-on-quarter in every quarter. Of course, we are progressing and we want to continue to grow on average in all quarters, but the fact that we grew more significantly in this quarter is the result of a number of things.

我不想建議我們每季都會較上季成長 6%。當然，我們正在進步，我們希望在所有季度繼續實現平均成長，但事實上，我們在本季成長更為顯著，這是多種因素共同作用的結果。

A number of seeds we have been planting for a while. There was no great one-off element. Perhaps the capital markets was the only one, and we have a franchise to capture that. It was a good progress, as Gustavo mentioned.

我們已經種下一些種子一段時間了。沒有什麼偉大的一次性元素。也許資本市場是唯一的市場，而我們有特許經營權來抓住這一點。正如古斯塔沃所說，這是一個很好的進展。

As for the transactional part, which to me is the most recurring element, the most replicable element when we look at the lifetime value of the account, you mentioned cards. I know you asked about checking accounts, but cards to me are a very important element because they have a progressive gain in client base. As I mentioned, we grew 6% year-on-year. It's not a huge number. We're growing 6%-plus higher spending per client, higher turnover by client. Both become very powerful. And that's an element we didn't speak about, but which is also relevant.

至於交易部分，對我來說，這是最常見的元素，當我們考慮帳戶的生命週期價值時，它是最可複製的元素，您提到了卡片。我知道您問過有關支票帳戶的問題，但卡對我來說是一個非常重要的元素，因為它們在客戶群中不斷增加。正如我所提到的，我們比去年同期成長了 6%。這不是一個龐大的數字。我們的每位客戶支出增加了 6% 以上，客戶營業額也提高了。兩者都變得非常強大。這是我們沒有談論的一個元素，但它也是相關的。

We talk about expense management, managing our expenses correctly. But there's an important management to reduce costs of those operating expenses, expenses directly linked to sales that we sometimes recognize as reduction factors for margins and fees and commissions, and also managing that.

我們談論費用管理，正確管理我們的費用。但是，有一個重要的管理層來降低這些營運費用的成本，這些費用與銷售直接相關，我們有時將其視為利潤、費用和佣金的減少因素，並對其進行管理。

Now, talk about checking accounts. That's an important question you asked. We grew checking accounts in a market where supposedly there should be no fees coming from checking accounts. So how come we're growing in a business that clearly should be zero. I don't believe that we will continue to grow in the line of fees and commissions for the next 5 to 10 years.

現在，談談支票帳戶。這是你問的一個重要問題。我們在一個按理說支票帳戶不應該收取任何費用的市場上開設了支票帳戶。那麼，我們為什麼要在一個顯然應該為零的業務中成長呢？我不相信未來 5 到 10 年我們的費用和佣金業務會持續成長。

It is very positive what we are doing. It's not by chance. We're doing this for two reasons. We're bringing in new clients -- in packages where clients accept to pay fees and commissions, and there was also some repricing also for legal elements. So we have new clients on board in individuals and companies. In companies, we can bring these clients in components of combos that have been adjusted by inflation.

我們正在做的事情非常積極。這不是偶然的。我們這樣做有兩個原因。我們正在引入新客戶——客戶接受支付費用和佣金的套餐，並且還對法律要素進行了一些重新定價。因此，我們有個人和公司的新客戶。在公司中，我們可以將這些客戶納入已根據通貨膨脹調整的組合中。

So we adjust for inflation plus more clients that accept paying some fees. And of course, that pumps up the fees and commissions. So the growth you saw is positive. We are happy about it, mainly in companies and individuals.

因此，我們會根據通貨膨脹以及更多接受支付一些費用的客戶進行調整。當然，這會增加費用和佣金。所以你看到的成長是正面的。我們對此感到高興，主要是公司和個人。

In my very long-term vision, we should see this line item together with other transactionality lines, the cards, cash and payments as a whole, and when not acquiring, which is a key product, prepayment. So spoke a lot about a focus on journey for individuals and companies. It's all about transactionality, cash, collection, prepayment, get net, in our case, all more integrated.

在我的長期願景中，我們應該將該行項目與其他交易行、卡、現金和支付視為一個整體，以及在不獲取時（這是一個關鍵產品）預付款。所以談到了很多關於個人和公司對旅程的關注。這一切都與交易性、現金、收款、預付款、獲取淨額有關，在我們的例子中，一切都更加整合。

And all of this will evolve to a more powerful combo view that we will price more and more focused on a client and will play with the lines in a way, Mario, that will allow us to win as a whole. And of course, volume is important. The checking accounts is important, but our focus lasts in gaining in that line and gaining as a whole in fees and commissions, our profitability per client. But it is a positive movement in the quoting numbers.

所有這一切都將演變為更強大的組合視圖，我們將越來越注重客戶的定價，並將以某種方式玩轉線條，馬裡奧，這將使我們整體獲勝。當然，數量也很重要。支票帳戶很重要，但我們的重點仍然是在該領域獲得收益，並在費用和佣金方面獲得整體收益，即我們每個客戶的獲利能力。但這是報價數量的積極變化。

Matheus Guimarães, XP.

馬修斯·吉馬雷斯，XP。

Referring to Vaz's question, I would like to hear more about personal loans. And you also said that the spread or the margin after provisions is not healthy. It's less healthy than it seems, even though spreads are higher. Does that have to do with the cost to serve? How do you compare that with other fintech and competitors investing in this line? I think this is more focused on personal loans.

關於瓦茲的問題，我想了解更多有關個人貸款的資訊。您也說撥備後的利差或保證金並不健康。儘管利差較高，但它並不像看起來那麼健康。這與服務成本有關係嗎？您如何將其與投資該領域的其他金融科技和競爭對手進行比較？我認為這更側重於個人貸款。

. When I talked about personal loans, personal loan involves four major portfolios. We have the clean personal loan. And I answer that part when I answer Vaz's question. Our ambition to grow is moderate, given the fact that the vocation of this product in my view should be the one that boosts principality and loyalty.

。我講個人貸款，個人貸款涉及四大組合。我們有乾淨的個人貸款。當我回答瓦茲的問題時我也回答了這一部分。鑑於我認為該產品的使命應該是增強公權和忠誠度，因此我們的成長目標是溫和的。

The personal loan product that we have, not necessarily as printability or delivers results. Of course, I'm referring to the average. I'm not saying that any personal loan doesn't know it makes no sense, but it's a product that usually we have a lower share and we are not worried about that.

我們擁有的個人貸款產品不一定具有可列印性或交付結果。當然，我指的是平均值。我並不是說任何個人貸款都不知道它沒有意義，但它是一種產品，通常我們的份額較低，我們並不擔心這一點。

So in all my leadership meetings with my teams doesn't have to do with how I double my personal loan share and talking about collateralized personnel alone or on the investments that we talked a lot about them into the payroll loan portfolio, which is huge.

因此，在我與團隊的所有領導會議中，與我如何將個人貸款份額加倍以及單獨談論抵押人員或我們在工資貸款組合中談論的投資無關，這是巨大的。

But I do not want to have different ratios in these two particular loans and there is a fourth personal loan that I really want to reduce, which is the renegotiation portfolio. And that's when we combine all portfolio, especially from credit card, over drafting accounts, and more structured funding. And then we bundle everything to renegotiate, some debt that even have a haircut and this personal loan is coming down and part of the margin equation has to do with the drop of this personal loan reorganization.

但我不想在這兩筆特定貸款中擁有不同的比率，而且我真正想減少第四筆個人貸款，即重新談判組合。那時我們會將所有投資組合結合起來，特別是來自信用卡、超額起草帳戶和更具結構性的融資。然後我們把所有的東西都綁起來重新談判，一些債務甚至被削減了，這筆個人貸款正在下降，部分保證金方程式與個人貸款重組的下降有關。

It means that the numbers are healthier. Now I cannot speak about how other competitors see that product. But in our view, our personal loan is something that is accelerating to the entire payment journey. And the clean personal loan is seeing buyers with a certain degree of limitation.

這意味著數字更健康。現在我無法談論其他競爭對手如何看待該產品。但在我們看來，我們的個人貸款是一個正在加速走向整個支付旅程的東西。而清潔個人貸款對於購屋者來說也有一定的限制。

I mean, clean personal loan is just part of our portfolio. That clean personal loan is part of our portfolio, a balanced portfolio. And with that balanced portfolio, it's something that you adjust and limit. So personal loan is just part of that. This is very important.

我的意思是，乾淨的個人貸款只是我們投資組合的一部分。乾淨的個人貸款是我們投資組合的一部分，是一個平衡的投資組合。有了平衡的投資組合，你就可以調整和限制它。所以個人貸款只是其中的一部分。這非常重要。

It's not a standalone product, but it's a product that is part of a portfolio. And long and mid and long term profitability and sustainable growth. So we are not so much concerned with the evolution of that clean, but that's part of a risk portfolio and how we weigh that portfolio, so that we arrive at the best possible performance and strictly serving the client.

它不是一個獨立的產品，而是一個產品組合的一部分。以及長、中長期獲利能力和永續成長。因此，我們不太關心清潔的演變，但這是風險投資組合的一部分以及我們如何權衡該投資組合，以便我們達到最佳性能並嚴格為客戶服務。

Thiago Batista, UBS.

蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔，瑞銀集團。

My question is about margins. We talked a little bit about margins, but when we look at the third quarter – I mean the first quarter, the margins were positive. The only thing that disappointed me a bit was the growth of NII.

我的問題是關於利潤的。我們討論了一些關於利潤率的問題，但是當我們看第三季度時——我的意思是第一季度，利潤率為正。唯一讓我有點失望的是NII的成長。

In the Spanish call, they indicated that the margin in Brazil would grow and before it was in the high-teens. I would just like to understand what will be your dynamic going forward. I know that Brazil uses GAAP. There's GAAP and IFRS. We will see growth of margins in the quarter. So what kind of dynamic in terms of NII should be expected, whether we would see them gaining momentum in the next quarter or not?

在西班牙電話會議中，他們表示巴西的利潤率將會成長，之前會達到十幾歲。我只是想了解您未來的動力是什麼。我知道巴西使用公認會計準則。有公認會計準則和國際財務報告準則。我們將看到本季利潤率的成長。那麼，NII 會出現什麼樣的動態，我們是否會看到它們在下個季度獲得成長動能？

Without giving any guidance, of course, if we look at the funding margin this quarter, as Gustavo said, but I would like to reinstate that point, of course, we would rather have a client NII that grows more, of course, and, or an NII as a whole that grows. We are working on that and we will deliver it. But starting with the funding client NII, the detractor factor of the quarter was basically the proportional fall of average CDI compared first and second quarter. We encompass it part of that with volumes. I would say that the mix also had a positive evolution.

當然，在沒有提供任何指導的情況下，如果我們看看本季度的融資利潤率，正如古斯塔沃所說，但我想重申這一點，當然，我們寧願讓客戶 NII 增長更多，當然，或作為一個整體成長的NII。我們正在努力做到這一點，我們將會實現這一目標。但從融資客戶NII開始，本季的拖累因素基本上是平均CDI與第一季和第二季相比的比例下降。我們用捲來包含它的一部分。我想說的是，這種組合也取得了正面的進展。

Therefore, our evolution and, I would like to call it, the average spread measured as CD, our average spread is evolving in the correct direction. And this compensates for the drop in CDI per se. CDI, if it doesn't change from now to the end of the year, which is the base case of the entire market and we are also included in that, we will not have a detractor factor of CDI. So we will continue to work hard to grow volume, to grow mix, bringing more clients and more time deposits with a mix more earmarked towards retail. And so, we will see a difference in the funding client NII.

因此，我們的演變，我想稱之為以 CD 衡量的平均價差，我們的平均價差正在朝著正確的方向演變。這彌補了 CDI 本身的下降。CDI，如果從現在到年底它不發生變化，這是整個市場的基本情況，我們也包括在內，我們就不會有CDI的貶低因素。因此，我們將繼續努力增加銷量，擴大產品組合，帶來更多的客戶和更多的定期存款，其中的組合更專門用於零售。因此，我們將看到資助客戶 NII 的差異。

In terms of regular client NII, it has to do with CP reorg goes down and we do no longer have that NII element. I would rather not have. So we will continue to see that positive evolution of the reorganized portfolio and this is good and we will try to mitigate that by increasing the portfolio that aims at growth spread. But as I said before, we want to do that in a way that, after provisions, we can grow in the correct way.

就常規客戶端 NII 而言，這與 CP 重組失敗有關，我們不再擁有該 NII 元素。我寧願沒有。因此，我們將繼續看到重組後的投資組合的積極演變，這是好事，我們將嘗試透過增加旨在成長的投資組合來緩解這種情況。但正如我之前所說，我們希望以一種在規定之後我們能夠以正確的方式成長的方式做到這一點。

-- Because client NII, we should have a positive evolution in the next quarters. So this coupled with funding, we will grow client NII. It won't be linear because it shouldn't be, but we will grow sequentially with a bias of the mid and long term rather than the next quarter. We want to deliver good quarters certainly, but we want to deliver a very sound and consistent bank with a very diversified portfolio. And this has to do with a growing client NII.

-- 因為客戶 NII，我們應該在接下來的幾個季度中取得積極的進展。因此，加上資金，我們將增加客戶 NII。它不會是線性的，因為它不應該是線性的，但我們將偏向中長期而不是下個季度來實現連續成長。我們當然希望提供良好的季度業績，但我們希望提供一家非常健全和穩定的銀行，擁有非常多元化的投資組合。這與不斷成長的客戶 NII 有關。

Pedro Leduc, Itaú BBA.

佩德羅·勒杜克 (Pedro Leduc)，義大利 BBA。

Hello. Good morning and thank you for the question. Mario team. Congratulations on the results. Speaking about revenue lines, I'd like to ask about the cost of risk. The all level was slightly below despite a higher loan book with a good NPL formation, SMEs not so much. The ALL level is stable at almost BRL6 billion. Cost of risk is falling. I would like to ask about, what do you think about the next six months in terms of NPL, ALL level acceleration of the portfolio, SMEs being a point of attention. And as a second part of my question, the JV was considered as a reinforcement for ALL. Is it something that you wanted to do or was it just a good place to allocate it? I just want to get a sense of the coverage ahead.

你好。早安，謝謝你的提問。馬裡奧隊。祝賀結果。談到收入線，我想問風險成本。儘管貸款帳面較高且不良貸款形成良好，但整體水準仍略低，但中小企業的情況則不然。ALL 水準穩定在近 60 億雷亞爾。風險成本正在下降。我想問一下，您對未來六個月不良貸款、投資組合的所有級別加速、中小企業成為關注點有何看法。作為我問題的第二部分，合資企業被認為是對 ALL 的加強。這是你想做的事情還是只是一個分配它的好地方？我只是想了解未來的報道。

I'll start with the second part. Thank you for asking that, Pedro. I'll start with the second part and then I'll turn the floor to Gustavo. So starting, it's a good thing you asked about this actually, the fact that we have this gain of BRL1.9 billion in our VAVR operation. It's circumstantial. Of course, it's part of a vision, Pedro, where we want to extract value that is kind of hidden in the pricing of the stock. Either because it's non-core or because these are smaller elements in the franchise and in the results.

我將從第二部分開始。謝謝你這麼問，佩德羅。我將從第二部分開始，然後請古斯塔沃發言。因此，首先，您問這個問題實際上是一件好事，事實上我們在 VAVR 業務中獲得了 19 億雷亞爾的收益。這是分情況的。當然，這是願景的一部分，佩德羅，我們希望提取隱藏在股票定價中的價值。要么因為它不是核心，要么因為這些是特許經營和結果中較小的元素。

When we had Webmotors operation last year, we wanted to unlock value. In Webmotors, one way or another, that flowed into the results. We were in the most acute phase of purging the portfolio. Now we are in a more mature phase of management of the old portfolio and derisking. Why did we provision for that? Why did we reinforce the balance sheet? Because we could do it. We wouldn't have done it if it weren't for the advent of that joint venture.

去年我們經營 Webmotors 時，我們希望釋放價值。在 Webmotors 中，無論怎樣，這都影響到了結果。我們正處於清理投資組合最激烈的階段。現在，我們正處於舊投資組合管理和去風險方面更成熟的階段。我們為什麼要這樣做？為什麼我們要強化資產負債表？因為我們能做到。如果沒有那家合資企業的出現，我們就不會這麼做。

So to answer your question, we didn't think that we needed to do. We were not worried about the coverage of the portfolio. You mentioned the evolution of the indices and that's proof of that. But we felt that we had a clean result to deliver. A clean result in terms of being recurrent, diversified in the right direction with the non-core year-on-year growth. So we didn't need to flow this to the result. We decided to be prudent and reinforce. We didn't need to do it, but we could afford to do it. And so, simply put, that's it. And I'd like Gustavo to comment on the performance.

因此，為了回答你的問題，我們認為我們不需要這樣做。我們並不擔心投資組合的覆蓋範圍。您提到了指數的演變，這就是證明。但我們覺得我們有一個乾淨的結果要交付。就經常性、多元化方向而言，非核心年成長是一個乾淨的結果。所以我們不需要將其傳遞給結果。我們決定謹慎行事並加強。我們不需要這樣做，但我們有能力這樣做。所以，簡單地說，就是這樣。我想讓古斯塔沃對錶演發表評論。

And it's exactly what you said. All of our indices, our ratios, [15 to 9 and 90 NPL] inflation at a good level, the vintages performing well. We are growing the portfolios where we want them to grow. We didn't change our risk appetite. We are growing at a good pace in the portfolios that have been growing in recent quarters.

這正是你所說的。我們所有的指數、比率、[15 比 9 和 90 不良貸款]通膨都處於良好水平，年份表現良好。我們正在按照我們希望的方式發展投資組合。我們沒有改變風險偏好。最近幾季我們的投資組合一直在成長，我們正在以良好的速度成長。

So the ALL trend is positive at this point. We have no surprises. What we knew was already in the 90 plus, 15 to 90 NPL, as you mentioned, SMEs, that's well balanced, adjusted.

因此，目前所有趨勢都是正面的。我們沒有什麼意外。我們所知道的已經是 90 歲以上、15 歲到 90 歲的不良貸款，正如您所提到的，中小企業，這是很好的平衡和調整。

Looking forward, we'll continue to grow the portfolio with this kind of credit quality that we have. There was a change that we talked about, and this is already reflecting in our allowance for loan losses. It's all established. There's nothing new because that's all established. It's already seamless. ALL is very correct and adjusted in all senses. We will grow the portfolio. The performance is doing well. Where there's some noise, we can quickly adjust. We didn't see anything different in the quarter. So that's the trend. But again, the ALL volume will be the result of the volume of the portfolio that we are growing and how it is made up in terms of every block of business and product.

展望未來，我們將繼續擴大具有這種信用品質的投資組合。我們談到了一個變化，這已經反映在我們的貸款損失準備金中。一切都已成立。沒有什麼新的，因為這一切都是既定的。已經是天衣無縫了。ALL 在所有意義上都是非常正確和調整的。我們將擴大投資組合。性能表現不錯。哪裡有噪音，我們就可以快速調整。我們在本季度沒有看到任何不同。這就是趨勢。但同樣，所有數量將取決於我們正在成長的產品組合數量以及每個業務和產品區塊的組成方式。

So let me stress that. We see all ratios performing well, and we are comfortable to grow in the SME portfolio that we grew in the quarter because it's all adapted, or else we wouldn't grow 3%. So that's the trend in ALL and the cost of risk will evolve positively. And there's something here to highlight. Gustavo kind of touched on it. But let me add to that. During the presentation, I kind of mentioned what we're doing with technologies. So please allow me to digress a little to stress the point.

所以讓我強調這一點。我們看到所有比率都表現良好，我們對本季成長的中小企業投資組合的成長感到滿意，因為它全部適應了，否則我們不會成長 3%。這就是 ALL 的趨勢，風險成本將積極發展。這裡有一些事情需要強調。古斯塔沃對此有所觸動。但讓我補充一下。在演示過程中，我提到了我們正在利用科技所做的事情。因此，請容許我稍微離題一下，強調一下這一點。

Today we have the ability to react, to adjust up, depending on the audiences that I want to work with, not just appetite, but marginal increases in terms of loan granting, but also to reduce credit. So we're looking at the border, that limit in loan granting in every product, in every segment. We're looking at that every day, every week.

今天，我們有能力做出反應、進行調整，這取決於我想要合作的受眾，不僅是胃口，還有貸款發放的邊際成長，還有信貸的減少。因此，我們正在研究邊界，即每個產品、每個細分市場的貸款發放限制。我們每天、每週都會注意這一點。

What changed in the last three years? In the end of 2021 to 2022, when we stepped on the brakes, we took months to implement something. Now we take a couple of weeks to implement a change. It might sound a lot, but two weeks of --, as an diligent analyst, you know that our ability to move with this big bank, this cruiser in terms of policy decision and models decision, doing that Agile with agility, that evolved a lot in the last few years. So we can test the border more dynamically, because if we make mistakes, and it's part of the business to make mistakes, we can adjust quickly.

過去三年發生了什麼變化？2021年底到2022年，當我們踩剎車時，我們花了幾個月的時間來實施一些東西。現在我們需要幾週的時間來實施變更。聽起來可能很多，但是兩週——作為一名勤奮的分析師，你知道我們有能力與這家大銀行、這艘巡洋艦在政策決策和模型決策方面一起行動，以敏捷的方式進行敏捷，這發展了過去幾年有很多。所以我們可以更動態地測試邊界，因為如果我們犯了錯誤，而犯錯是業務的一部分，我們可以快速調整。

And when we realize that there's an audience we shouldn't be giving loans to, we can quickly make a change. That costs very little to us. So this evolution has everything to do with technology and how we deal with our policies and credit models. That's an asset that we have now that we didn't have two, three years ago, and that helps us in the policy of recovery and in our ability to do fine-tuning credit management.

當我們意識到我們不應該向某些受眾提供貸款時，我們可以迅速做出改變。這對我們來說花費很少。因此，這種演變與技術以及我們處理政策和信用模型的方式密切相關。這是我們現在擁有的資產，而兩三年前我們還沒有這種資產，它有助於我們制定復甦政策和微調信貸管理的能力。

Yuri Fernandes, JP Morgan.

尤里‧費爾南德斯，摩根大通。

My question is similar to -- regarding this credit cycle in Brazil. I think that in a different moment, you stepped on the brakes before, and that the systems leveled this NPL discussions, some wrestling in SMEs, I think that Gustavo's message is clear that, for you, NPL is well behaved. But I'd like to understand about this system. How do you see it? Not just in terms of NPL, but in terms of growth as well. There's a lot of discussion.

我的問題類似於——關於巴西的信貸週期。我認為在不同的時刻，你之前踩了剎車，系統對這個不良貸款的討論進行了平息，中小企業中有些角力，我認為古斯塔沃的信息很明確，對你來說，不良貸款是表現良好的。但我想了解這個系統。你怎麼看？不僅在不良貸款方面，而且在成長方面也是如此。有很多討論。

I see Febraban research reviewing growth a little up, but with somewhat higher interest rates. So I'd like to understand how do you see the cycle at the Brazil level and how will Santander serve that cycle? Because, like I said, you were in a slightly different position than the average peers that made you step on the brakes earlier.

我看到 Febraban 的研究顯示成長略有上升，但利率有所上升。所以我想了解您如何看待巴西層面的週期以及桑坦德銀行將如何服務該週期？因為，就像我說的，你的處境與一般同齡人略有不同，這讓你更早踩剎車。

I'll start and then I'll give the floor to Gustavo. When we speak about strategic business, I always choose a few to comment on in the call. Some are related to credit, but we have other strategic business deriving from credit, fees and commissions, liabilities, so on and so forth.

我先開始，然後請古斯塔沃發言。當我們談論戰略業務時，我總是選擇一些在電話中發表評論。有些與信用有關，但我們還有其他來自信用、費用和佣金、負債等的策略業務。

So I spoke about where we're evolving, where we are gaining share, but, Yuri, it's a good thing to earn share. Of course, we prefer to earn share than lose share. We are gaining share in cards and consumer finance and payroll, loans. But we don't wake up in the morning thinking I have to gain one, two, three points this quarter.

所以我談到了我們正在發展的地方，我們正在贏得份額的地方，但是，尤里，贏得份額是一件好事。當然，我們更願意贏得份額，而不是失去份額。我們正在獲得銀行卡、消費金融、薪資、貸款領域的份額。但我們不會早上醒來就想著我必須在本節拿下一分、兩分、三分。

That's not it. We want to grow with profitability, with the right mix in a sustainable fashion. But we don't define in our evaluation model for the management that we should grow one, two points more than Febraban. Now, Febraban is talking about something close to 10, but I don't want to give any guidance, but we want to grow in line with the market. We don't want to say, I'm happy to grow half as much as the market. Of course not.

不是這個。我們希望以可持續的方式透過正確的組合實現獲利成長。但我們並沒有在管理階層的評估模型中定義我們應該比 Febraban 多成長一、兩個百分點。現在，Febraban 正在談論接近 10 的東西，但我不想提供任何指導，但我們希望與市場保持一致。我們不想說，我很高興成長速度是市場的一半。當然不是。

But in line with the market and the products that we choose to grow, and I call these strategic businesses, we're going to grow more than the market. But not because gaining share will define our success, because in a strategic approach of mix and how we want to grow the bank, we're designing the bank for the next five years. We deliver it every quarter, but I'm designing the bank for 2028.

但根據市場和我們選擇成長的產品，我稱之為策略業務，我們的成長將超過市場。但這並不是因為獲得份額將決定我們的成功，而是因為在混合策略方法以及我們希望如何發展銀行的過程中，我們正在設計銀行的未來五年。我們每季都會交付，但我正在為 2028 年設計銀行。

So this bank has to have a different credit mix. It means having some more clean personal loans. This product will lose relevance over time. It's not the most relevant in margin. It will lose. It doesn't mean I'm doing a bad job and payroll loans that are collateralized, the home equity. Home equity can grow two fold. I have a portfolio of less than BRL6 billion, so this portfolio can grow to BRL10 billion very quickly or maybe BRL50 billion or plus, which is all we have in mortgages. So in this mix approach, we intend to grow more than the market in some products, and on average, we will be reasonably in keeping, perhaps 1 percentage-points more or less.

所以這家銀行必須有不同的信貸組合。這意味著擁有一些更乾淨的個人貸款。隨著時間的推移，該產品將失去相關性。這不是與保證金最相關的。它會輸。這並不意味著我的工作和抵押工資貸款（房屋淨值）做得不好。房屋淨值可以成長兩倍。我的投資組合不到 60 億雷亞爾，因此這個投資組合可以很快增長到 100 億雷亞爾，或者可能達到 500 億雷亞爾或更多，這就是我們抵押貸款的全部。因此，在這種混合方法中，我們打算在某些產品上實現超過市場的成長，平均而言，我們將合理地保持多或少 1 個百分點。

There are the state-owned banks. Speaking about the whole industry, I'm not going to give any names, but some state-owned banks with an appetite which is marginally higher, which is natural. These are cycles. I think state-owned banks do a super important work. We act in some industries, some sectors which are huge, such as housing, agribusiness. These are interesting to us.

有國有銀行。說到整個產業，我不打算點名，但有些國營銀行的胃口稍微大一點，這是很自然的。這些都是循環。我認為國有銀行做了一項非常重要的工作。我們在一些產業、一些規模龐大的領域開展業務，例如住房、農業綜合企業。這些對我們來說很有趣。

In housing, we compete less, but in agri business, we compete and we want to continue to grow. But in agri business this year, we'll grow with less ambition than in prior years. Now, remember that we practically doubled, 98% of portfolio growth between December 2021 to 2023, with BRL53 billion at the end of last year. Now we're growing. We're growing all through accrual rather than growing the portfolio because this is a more challenging year for agribusiness. There's nothing wrong in that. It's with the cycles. We are not scared. We're not going to be growing 20%, 30% as we did before. And it's all good. In agribusiness, you might lose a little share due to a correct decision about managing the portfolio. So I hope I kind of gave you a macro view. Gustavo, do you want to add?

在住房領域，我們競爭較少，但在農業企業，我們競爭，我們希望繼續成長。但今年在農業業務方面，我們的成長雄心將低於往年。現在請記住，從 2021 年 12 月到 2023 年，我們的投資組合成長幾乎翻了一番，達到 98%，截至去年年底達到 530 億雷亞爾。現在我們正在成長。我們透過權責發生製而非投資組合來實現成長，因為今年對農業綜合企業來說是更具挑戰性的一年。這並沒有什麼問題。這是與週期有關的。我們並不害怕。我們不會像以前那樣成長 20%、30%。一切都很好。在農業綜合企業中，由於管理投資組合的正確決策，您可能會損失一點份額。所以我希望我能給你一個宏觀的視角。古斯塔沃，你想補充嗎？

No, that's exactly it. Of course, we look at the market, but we have our own portfolio mix. Ideally, it is a dynamic portfolio mix. We measure performance of all of the portfolios, thinking about the product and thinking about the clients. So very dynamic. We have a target of profitability for to see how it's made up might be different than my growth as much as the market, but with a different composition. So it's all about actively managing the portfolio in measuring performance, daily of everything. It’s all very dynamic.

不，正是這樣。當然，我們關注市場，但我們有自己的投資組合。理想情況下，它是一個動態的投資組合。我們衡量所有產品組合的績效，考慮產品並考慮客戶。非常有活力。我們有一個獲利目標，看看它的組成方式可能與我的成長和市場不同，但組成不同。因此，這一切都是為了積極管理投資組合，衡量每天的表現。這一切都非常充滿活力。

And we are not focused on growing more or less. We are focused on doing the right thing, the right makeup that will give us the best result. So for our macro environment and business environment and always decomposing into individuals and companies, this is now our vision.

我們並不關注成長的多寡。我們專注於做正確的事、正確的化妝，這將為我們帶來最好的結果。所以對於我們的宏觀環境和商業環境總是分解到個人和公司，這是我們現在的願景。

And CDI, if CDI stops dropping, it doesn't help particularly for companies. CDI at 10.5% is still high. We don't pay that. There is always a CDI plus in terms of market funding. So legal entities don't benefit from interest rates that do not decline.

而 CDI，如果 CDI 停止下降，這對公司來說尤其沒有幫助。CDI 10.5%仍處於高位。我們不付那個錢。就市場資金而言，CDI 總是有優勢的。因此，法人實體不會從不下降的利率中受益。

And for individuals, all the individual risk appetite for individuals will not go back to the level of 2020,2021 because we had an oversupply of credit because there was this perception that COVID did not have any effect on disposable income.

對於個人而言，個人的所有個人風險偏好都不會回到2020、2021年的水平，因為我們信貸供應過剩，因為人們認為新冠疫情對可支配收入沒有任何影響。

As an industry, we got that wrong. And then we had new competitors offering new credit to clients, but all of that evolved. I spoke about this in Pedro's question, but we evolved as an industry in terms of not allowing oversupply, particularly to low income clients.

作為一個行業，我們錯了。然後我們有了新的競爭對手，為客戶提供新的信貸，但所有這些都在發展。我在佩德羅的問題中談到了這一點，但我們作為一個行業的發展是不允許供應過剩，特別是對低收入客戶而言。

I don't think that for individuals, there will be an accelerated resumption, as surveys indicate. I think everyone is going to be more prudent in loan granting. We are being prudent and still we are growing, but with a smaller audience and with products with a different mix, as we said before.

我認為，對於個人而言，不會像調查顯示的那樣加速恢復。我認為大家在發放貸款時都會更加謹慎。正如我們之前所說，我們很謹慎，而且仍在成長，但受眾較少，產品組合也不同。

Eduardo Nishio, Genial.

愛德華多·西尾，和藹可親。

My question relates to this last one. It's more related to your journey to improve sustainability, diversification and profitability. I think, Mario, since 2022, you had ROE at the end of 2022 was very low and then you started resuming profitability. There was another quarter with a drop, but in fact, this profitability is improving and it has been improving more quickly this year in the last quarters.

我的問題與最後一個有關。它與您提高可持續性、多元化和盈利能力的旅程更相關。我認為，馬裡奧，自 2022 年以來，您在 2022 年底的 ROE 非常低，然後您開始恢復盈利。又一個季度出現了下降，但事實上，這種獲利能力正在改善，而且今年最後幾季的改善速度更快。

But my question is, where do you find yourselves in this journey? I know that this is an endless journey, but in terms of the objectives that you lined up during your administration, Mario, where do you think you are right now in that journey?

但我的問題是，你在這段旅程中發現自己在哪裡？我知道這是一個永無止境的旅程，但就你在執政期間所訂定的目標而言，馬裡奧，你認為你現在在這段旅程中處於什麼位置？

And where do you think you still have some catching up to do? What segments you believe that profitability could be improved in mass income or credit cards? And whether you could also tell us about incumbent banks that are operating at higher ROE? And when do you intend to catch up with these banks? Thank you.

您認為您在哪些方面還有待追趕？您認為大眾收入或信用卡可以提高哪些領域的獲利能力？您是否也可以告訴我們一些以較高股本回報率營運的現有銀行？你打算什麼時候追上這些銀行？謝謝。

So I will answer without giving any guidance. Okay. That’s a very good question. Whenever we talk about profitability, certainly this is a key element of our strategy. I mean, the strategy is not just profitability because profitability is just the result have a strategy. And I've been repeating that because we have to have a better balanced credit portfolio, more recurring, more fees, funding and all of that combined to deliver a good client strategy. And we haven't seen that happening so strongly in at least in the last nine years where I've been with the bank.

所以我會回答而不提供任何指導。好的。這是一個非常好的問題。每當我們談論獲利能力時，這當然是我們策略的關鍵要素。我的意思是，策略不僅僅是獲利能力，因為獲利能力只是策略的結果。我一直在重複這一點，因為我們必須擁有更好平衡的信貸投資組合、更多的經常性、更多的費用、資金以及所有這些，才能提供良好的客戶策略。至少在我在銀行工作的過去九年裡，我們還沒有看到這種情況發生得如此強烈。

Eduardo, as you're in some quarters ago when you and your peers would ask me, you would say that we were in the low-teens. I mean we were generating economic loss. I mean, profitability was below cost of capital, and that was not sustainable, but it was part of a cycle. We had to go through that. We were not proud of it, but we had to go through it because we are now doing the right homework.

Eduardo，正如您在某些時候和您的同齡人問我的那樣，您會說我們還不到十幾歲。我的意思是我們正在造成經濟損失。我的意思是，獲利能力低於資本成本，這是不可持續的，但它是週期的一部分。我們必須經歷這個過程。我們並不為此感到自豪，但我們必須經歷它，因為我們現在正在做正確的功課。

We have to look at the cost of capital. We were doing that even before some of you started asking us about that. But in the first quarter, we were able to show some economic front progress. But still it's not what we wanted to have 1.4 percentage-points of gain every quarter, but it's not really linear because that's not part of our business.

我們必須考慮資本成本。甚至在你們中的一些人開始詢問我們之前我們就已經這樣做了。但在第一季度，我們在經濟方面取得了一些進展。但這仍然不是我們想要的每季 1.4 個百分點的收益，但它並不是真正的線性，因為這不是我們業務的一部分。

But the bank is all fit with the right leverage. And we are just measuring the acceleration pace in every segment. So we won growth in both sides. We are not going to let go of profitability in favor of growth because even though we want to deliver good quarters all the time, we are not going to let go of one in favor of the other. So should we reach that level of mid-teens, but we want to consolidate that level and from now on what will be the next level, mid to high-teens. So in the next quarters, we will gear our operation to that end.

但銀行都具備適當的槓桿作用。我們只是測量每個細分市場的加速速度。所以我們贏得了雙方的成長。我們不會為了成長而放棄獲利能力，因為即使我們希望一直提供良好的季度業績，我們也不會為了另一個而放棄一個。因此，我們是否應該達到中青少年的水平，但我們希望鞏固該水平，從現在開始，我們將達到下一個水平，中青少年到高中水平。因此，在接下來的幾個季度中，我們將為此目的調整我們的營運。

And I'm not going to say that it will be in the next quarter, will be quarters and not years because if it takes years for us to reach a high teens. It wouldn't be advisable. So we will aim at mid to high teens in the next few quarters until we reach something rounding up to 20%. This is a very clear objective. I'm not going to tell you whether it's going to happen in X number of years, obviously is not going to comment in just a few quarters, but it could happen and we will work to that. And in a time line of short to midterm.

我不會說這將是在下一個季度，將是幾個季度而不是幾年，因為如果我們需要幾年的時間才能達到高中。這是不可取的。因此，我們的目標是在接下來的幾季中瞄準中高青少年，直到達到 20%。這是一個非常明確的目標。我不會告訴你這是否會在 X 年內發生，顯然不會在短短幾個季度內發表評論，但它可能會發生，我們將為此努力。而且是在短期到中期的時間線上。

But more importantly, Eduardo is how we are going to get there. If I'm saying okay, I'm going to do 20. That's cool. But certainly I think this is what you wanted to hear from myself included, but we have to do that with a different portfolio construction when compared to what we did back in 2021 in in some quarters.

但更重要的是，愛德華多是我們實現這一目標的方式。如果我說好的話，我就做20個。這很酷。但我當然認為這也是你們想從我自己那裡聽到的，但與 2021 年某些季度的做法相比，我們必須透過不同的投資組合結構來做到這一點。

Well, it's not bad that we reached 21 plus by that 21 plus that costed us low teens of ROE, this is not where I want to be. So the speed will be different, but it will be very consistent in a mix that I guarantee you will be very different.

好吧，我們達到 21+ 還不錯，但 21+ 卻讓我們損失了十幾歲的 ROE，這不是我想要的。所以速度會有所不同，但在混合中它會非常一致，我保證你會非常不同。

Of course, challenges will be on the way. Our business is very dynamic and complex with exceptional competitors, both incumbent and digital competitors, and consumers are looking at us, forcing us to innovate all the time. So there are challenges coming from many different directions. -- This also includes human and intellectual challenges. And that's very nice. We discuss with the Santander Group all the time because Brazil is almost like an indicating KPI for the world. But we are aiming at a mid to high teens level and then to be in the 20s. And throughout time, we will evolve and we will certainly talk to you about how we are getting there.

當然，挑戰也會隨之而來。我們的業務充滿活力且複雜，擁有出色的競爭對手，包括現有競爭對手和數位競爭對手，而消費者也在關注我們，迫使我們不斷創新。因此，挑戰來自許多不同的方向。 ——這也包括人力和智力的挑戰。這非常好。我們一直與桑坦德集團討論，因為巴西幾乎就像是世界的指標性關鍵績效指標。但我們的目標是青少年中高級水平，然後是二十幾歲。隨著時間的推移，我們會不斷發展，我們一定會與您討論我們如何實現這一目標。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Very well then. So now, I would like to thank all of you for joining us this morning. So after this video conference, myself and the entire IR team of Santander Brazil will be available to certainly answer any pending question. Thank you very much. I wish you a very good day.

那麼很好。現在，我要感謝大家今天早上加入我們。因此，在這次視訊會議之後，我本人和巴西桑坦德銀行的整個 IR 團隊將可以回答任何懸而未決的問題。非常感謝。祝您有美好的一天。